The quandry

OH NO modified

So during his gumflap with the Big P tonight on CBC, Tom Mulcair will officially announce he’s trashing the TFSA increase. Goodbye to ten grand a year tucked away for tax-free growth for your family’s future, and in with the old $5,500. This is what you’d expect a socialist to say, of course. One-for-all and all-for-one means the private accumulation of wealth is not cool, and we should all live out our days on some kind of enhanced CPP.

And what of Justin Trudeau? He would also end the TFSA boost brought in last year. Just because. In fact, he’d go one better, reducing the maximum annual contribution to just five grand. The current Liberal campaign is based on taxing the wealthy more so the middle class pays less, which sounds fair but is statistically impossible. Trudeau is also stumping around the country suggesting TFSAs are “for millionaires” and simply do not benefit the little people – who have more votes that the affluent.

Well, it’s true that 93% of all TFSAs are not maxed. It’s also true 48% of people are living paycheque-to-paycheque and that 80% of Canadians over 50 are desperately behind in the amount of savings required to survive in retirement. But by the same token, this tax-free account is one of the most widely-held investment vehicles in the land, with immense potential to improve people’s lives as years roll by.

These days almost 12,000,000 people have TFSAs. Of those who earn relatively little (under $25,000 a year), 17% had maxed their plans before the new limit was introduced. As you might expect, of people making more ($150,000 to $250,000), 32% had plans containing the maximum. CRA statistics show the bulk of TFSA holders are in low or middle-income brackets, and a disproportionate number are held by the wrinkly, over-65 set. Over a million people making less than $60,000 have been making maximum contributions. Ditto for over 1.5 million older than 55 – exactly those who need to boost assets and prepare for life post-career.

Meanwhile, the savings rate in Canada has wilted badly. On average we now consume 97% of what we earn, putting aside precious little for the future. Once de rigeur, RRSPs has also taken a hit with annual contributions tumbling drastically over the last decade. All of this has been concurrent with the rise of the house and the rapid accumulation of epic levels of household debt.

It looks like our political leaders want this to continue.

The Cons have already announced a big jump in the amount people can suck out of their RRSPs to buy a new house, along with a witch hunt for foreign buyers and a wild promise to make the Home Renovation Tax Credit permanent. The Dippers are caving in to CREA’s demands to subsidize amateur landlords by eliminating capital gains tax on rental units, and the Libs have taken the cake by announcing that RRSPs would become open for real estate purchases with every “life event”. Like marriage, the end of marriage, separation, a new job or adopting a puppy. Both Mulcair and Trudeau would also join Harper aboard the anti-Chinese bandwagon, blaming non-residents for the high prices that dumbass federal politicians themselves have helped create.

In other words, if you’re looking for fresh thinking in this campaign, real assistance for people to find balance and financial security in their lives, to lessen our collective risk, encourage personal responsibility and escape from the treadmill of debt, good luck. The best these guys can do is find new ways of encouraging house porn, borrowing and over-consumption.

But if living for today’s the only goal of this election, best vote Rhinoceros.

Leader Sébastien Corriveau has made this promise: “The moment when you vote Rhino, you will automatically have an orgasm.”

Who’s in?

277 comments ↓

#1 JSS on 09.10.15 at 6:05 pm

Yes, it would suck if the TFSA maximum contribution limit was reversed back to $5,000. But hey, if you have Canadian dividend stocks, you still at least get a dividend tax credit.

#2 JG on 09.10.15 at 6:06 pm

at least the Rhino party is offering something other than the status quo. I ‘m in!

#3 lala on 09.10.15 at 6:10 pm

Can’t miss 2 times in a row, lala the FIRST.

#4 lala on 09.10.15 at 6:11 pm

Or the second.

#5 S.Bby on 09.10.15 at 6:12 pm

They all want to keep the party alive. Why save when you can spend? Saving is hard; spending is easy. Crazy times indeed.

#6 Andy on 09.10.15 at 6:14 pm

Agree that there is not a lot of new thinking by any of the three leaders!

#7 S.Bby on 09.10.15 at 6:17 pm

I would like to see a renter’s tax credit. Why should property owners get all the breaks? Oh right, owning (or owing) is good for the economy.

#8 Saint John on 09.10.15 at 6:19 pm

It is a problem to choose out here:

1. Harper is a few tens of km away extolling the virtues of Energy East with Mr Irving as I type. Again a single asset strategy…
2. the Liberal candidate runs a hockey team. Subsidized by the city…
3. Dipper… not worth the ink.

What to do?

#9 common sense on 09.10.15 at 6:21 pm

So that is why Rhino horns are so valuable….

When if ever again is anyone fiscally responsible ever going to come forward to try lead Canada or any country for that matter?

#10 Adam on 09.10.15 at 6:21 pm

“Over a million people making less than $60,000 have been making maximum contributions.”

I’m ashamed of you Garth. Without details behind this statistic, it’s meaningless. Do most people making less than $60,000 contribute the maximum of their own means? I doubt it (but can’t prove it because I don’t have the stats). I think it’s much more likely that these people who are making less than 60k but contributing the max are spouses (or children) of much higher earning individuals, don’t you?

See, TFSAs are just for the wealthy (despite my own 65k income, I manage to contribute the max, but I doubt most people do without as much as I do).

#11 Millennial Realist on 09.10.15 at 6:21 pm

Oh, come now, Garth.

The only kind of socialism we have in Canada is socialism for the 1%. It’s been that way for a long time.

How naïve do you think people are?

Your own date prove how few people can take advantage of these ‘equal opportunity’ wealth building schemes.

That’s because our society has been recklessly tilted in favour of the few, for decades now.

Here’s yet another pathetic example of how the wealthiest are scamming the rest of us:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/kpmg-offshore-sham-deceived-tax-authorities-cra-alleges-1.3209838

#12 Victoria Real Estate Update on 09.10.15 at 6:22 pm

Using the annual average price to determine the price decline of a housing market always makes the price correction look less severe than it actually was.

Such is the case with Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver and Victoria in the 80s and with Toronto in the early 90s.

Prices of individual homes in these markets fell a lot more than what the annual average price indicates.

In western Canada, plenty of mortgage holders walked away from their homes in the 80s.

In the early 90s in Toronto things were bad. I personally know someone who had to sell their home 2 years after buying it (in a nice neighbourhood) and could only get half of what they paid for it.

There are several problems with using the annual average to gauge how much individual homes fell in value in a particular market:

* The annual average price is a yearly value and, therefore, does not represent, in any way, the value of homes at the peak or bottom month of that year.

* Average prices are easily skewed (almost always higher). This gives a false impression of how much prices of individual homes fell.

* The drop in value as indicated by the annual average price of a city says nothing of what happens to prices in individual areas, which peak and bottom at different times. This smoothes things out. Again, this makes the price decline look less severe.

It’s impossible to understand how much the values of individual homes fall by considering a market’s annual SFH average price. This fact is illustrated below by using SFH prices in Victoria as an example.

Greater Victoria SFH average price (annual average):

2010: $629.925 K. (peak year)
2013: $598.637 K
2014: $609.342 K

(source: Victoria’s R/E board)

Greater Victoria average price decline (SFHs):

From 2010 to 2013: – 4.97%

From 2010 to 2014: – 3.27%

Doesn’t look like much at all. However, even the local realtors (through their index) admit that prices of SFHs in individual areas of Greater Victoria fell substantially more than that. At least twice as much, in fact.

Consider the following data.
(source: the local real estate board’s home price index)

Peak (2010) to late 2013 / early 2014 price declines by area (SFHs).

Greater Victoria: – 9.1%
Victoria: – 11.0%
Vic West: – 10.6%
Oak Bay: – 10.6%
Esquimalt: – 12.3%
View Royal: – 6.9%
Saanich East: – 9.7%
Saanich West: – 10.9%
Sooke: – 14.1%
Langford: – 12.8%
Metchosin: – 18.6%
Colwood: – 13.9%
Highlands: – 17.5%
North Saanich: – 14.5%
Sidney: – 11.4%
Central Saanich: – 14.2%

Indeed there would have been SFHs sold in each area at bigger discounts than what these numbers indicate. For example, SFH prices for the area of Oak Bay fell 10.6% (based on the local board’s index), but there would have been individual Oak Bay homes that sold at a bigger discount than that, perhaps 15% or even 20% below peak.

Similarly, the annual average price may show declines of only 25 to 30% in the early 80s in Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria and Vancouver, however, you can be sure that prices of individual homes fell a lot more than that, perhaps 40 to 50% in a lot of cases. I’ve explained why.

Considering the size of Canada’s current housing bubble and the certainty of rising rates, it’s likely that we will see a price correction much deeper than any other in Canada’s history.

It isn’t different in Canada. History proves it.

#13 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 6:29 pm

Hell I wasn’t even going to vote..

Rhino, yup..Im voting…

#14 Retired business owner on 09.10.15 at 6:31 pm

Everybody wants something that’s paid for by someone else and they want it now. Ask the citizens of Greece, PR and Detroit how that works out.

#15 LL on 09.10.15 at 6:32 pm

….”The best these guys can do is find new ways of encouraging house porn, borrowing and over-consumption”….

And interest rate never rise!
The show must go on!

#16 Asperusual on 09.10.15 at 6:34 pm

I appreciate the fact that a guy who will probably receive multiple gold plated pensions on the back of tax payers has the overwhelming desire to make it more difficult for us to save for our retirements. Insular and arrogant, go remortgage your house and get your hands out of my pocket!

#17 Mike in mtl on 09.10.15 at 6:36 pm

Right on, you know when I was much younger I always wondered how a actually official election party like the rhinos existed – older and wiser I totally get it. If they could come up with the cash to be in, I’d vote for them. Seriously it’s dumb, dumber and dumberer.

Again on point is that the powers that be MUST have this RE conga line go on – FIRE and construction is all that’s left in this sorry GDP.

#18 ShawnG in TO on 09.10.15 at 6:36 pm

@lala set your expectation low, real low

a hundred twenty-fifth !

#19 Brunett43 on 09.10.15 at 6:41 pm

Well, these are pre-election promises. How many times have politicians defaulted on their promises after they are put into office? I wonder if there are any stats on this.

#20 Mister Obvious on 09.10.15 at 6:43 pm

Many months ago I realized the political options in this election were going to be pathetic but I’ve been trying to put it out of my mind. Today’s post didn’t help.

It doesn’t matter much how you slice it, in all probability, a great whack of wrongheaded legislation lies dead ahead.

#21 INVESTORS KNOW HOW TO HIDE MONEY on 09.10.15 at 6:47 pm

Refugees who have come to Canada over the past 30 years have paid more income tax in this country than immigrant investors admitted under the now defunct immigrant investor program, critics say.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/refugees-pay-more-income-tax-than-millionaire-investor-immigrants-1.2984982

#22 Dwilly on 09.10.15 at 6:48 pm

Disagree here. I generally would be considered “conservative” economically and I agree with most of what Garth says, including objecting to the elimination of cap gains on rentals, allowing more RRSP-dipping, etc. But Garth is wrong about the TFSA increase.

For the record, I would also be considered a “rich guy”, with above average income and a maxed out TFSA. I would happily take more room (and have), but the fact is it’s bad policy.

Both factually and intuitively, you ought to know that 10k/person worth of TFSA room is too much for “average” people to hope to use, even if they’re living frugally. The average household income in Canada is something like 60-70k, to think that a family earning that has 20k after tax left over to dump into a TFSA is dreaming. The PBO has confirmed as much, stating that the vast majority of the 5.5k – 10k increase accrues to extremely wealthy households only.

I’m not socialist and I have nothing against the rich. However, that doesn’t mean that I think “spending” tax revenue in a manner that accrues 80% to those with massive incomes is good policy. It’s not good policy.

The first 5k made sense and is admirable, and gives everyone a chance. The second 5k is just padding those that don’t need it. I would happily vote against it.

#23 FormerSaskie on 09.10.15 at 6:50 pm

When the TFSA was increased to $10,000.00 without inflation increases, Preet Bannerjee calculated that over a long period of time the fund would actually grow less at a static $10,000.00 than if it stayed at the $5500.00 with periodic inflation compensating increases. So now we need to push for increases to counteract inflation. Garth, you could put pressure on the candidates for increases now, during the runup to the election. How about an open letter/blog addressed to the candidates?

My device is dying so I cannot look for the article can somebody find it and post the link? Thanks.

#24 james on 09.10.15 at 6:51 pm

shame, the TFSA is the best thing about Canada. Certainly not the weather or the parochial economy built around a set of cartels.

#25 saskatoon on 09.10.15 at 6:52 pm

#11 Millennial Realist

awww…c’mon.

don’t be so jealous and bitter.

this is awesome!

#26 WhoLikeShortShorts on 09.10.15 at 6:52 pm

This little gem showed up in from someone on Facebook. Calgarians are trying to dump their houses via social media now. Now this sounds like a great deal to me …

” Have a friend looking to sell a house. If you don’t have a down payment but wanting a house and can afford $2000+ mortgage payment depending in what interest rate you can get pm me for details. ”

I give up … more dog stories Garth.

#27 steve on 09.10.15 at 6:52 pm

Hi Garth
Friend of mine emailed me tonight / said he paid |$875k 4 years ago in Richmond Hill / he is listing at 1.8 million
how in 4 years can a house go up 1 million dollars / how / how / how

#28 Moral equivalence on 09.10.15 at 6:53 pm

If I were you I would make a sign from an old cardboard box that reads:

“Help. Got millions but I’m shelterless”.

Obviously, the only way to get the media attention this issue deserves.

#29 Leo Trollstoy on 09.10.15 at 6:59 pm

(despite my own 65k income, I manage to contribute the max, but I doubt most people do without as much as I do).

You just proved Garth’s stat

/facepalm

#30 Mr. Reality on 09.10.15 at 7:00 pm

That quote:

“Leader Sébastien Corriveau has made this promise: “The moment when you vote Rhino, you will automatically have an orgasm.””

Just made my afternoon. Thanks Garth

MR R

#31 Brian Ripley on 09.10.15 at 7:00 pm

I updated my household debt chart today with the latest GDP and Balance of Trade overlays:

http://www.chpc.biz/household-debt.html

GDP is ticking down and net trade is still negative of course where it has spent most of the time post-2008-lows.

The other metric on the chart, besides household debt and mortgage debt plots (still at the highs) is Federal Direct Investment In and Out of Canada and since the late 1990’s capital flow has been net Out of Canada looking for low labour and higher productivity than Canada can offer. That’s a 2 decade trend that shows no sign of reversing.

Good luck in 4Q if you have skin in the game.

#32 Joe Schmoe on 09.10.15 at 7:01 pm

I have been scratching my head during this excruciating election…I agree with Garth on the irrelevance of this election thus far.

I have been trolling the CBC forums and have been absolutely aghast at what (and how) some people think.

But I guess that is why Blogs like this exist.

#33 Irwin on 09.10.15 at 7:02 pm

Word count for today’s blog (not including comments)

Calgary 0
Alberta 0
Ft Mac 0
Wilma 0

O ya – it’s a good day after all!

#34 common sense on 09.10.15 at 7:04 pm

#23 Dwilly…great post.

Call me paranoid but I always thought it was just a veiled gift to Canadians in the form of a tax break but really just another way of the government knowing more of your net worth…One way or another it may be repealed fully one day…after all, on demographics alone, where is the cash going to come from to pay for everything? where?

#35 Joe Schmoe on 09.10.15 at 7:07 pm

as an aside, my wife and I will likely curtail our charitable donations in sour grapes after this election. (She is too nice, so I am just talking tough).

If the 99% think they can manage it better than we can through government intervention, have at it.

I bet nothing from the tax increases trickles from the government to the homeless/drug addicted or recent poor immigrants.

But the 99% don’t really care about those people either…just granite and student loan relief.

#36 Obvious Truth on 09.10.15 at 7:08 pm

Doesn’t matter what the 3 leaders want to do. No party can control any economy for very long. As we have witnessed here in Canada. A dollar became a Cpeso and a recession happened. Just expect more of the same from any of them. Nobody nation builds anymore. It’s too hard. Everyone coat tails or blames.

The fed gave all other nations an opportunity of a lifetime. Most just took the easy cash and blew it.

Rhino? I’m in.

#37 mitzerboy aka queencity kid on 09.10.15 at 7:14 pm

But if living for today’s the only goal of this election, best vote Rhinoceros.

Leader Sébastien Corriveau has made this promise: “The moment when you vote Rhino, you will automatically have an orgasm.”

this and so long as they free the herb ill vote for them

#38 4 AM Sunrise on 09.10.15 at 7:18 pm

I wonder what the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada and its new National Strategy for Financial Literacy has to say about all of this.

#39 Greg Franklin on 09.10.15 at 7:20 pm

Yes, turn Canada into a big pile of dependent people and see how far we will go.

Move to Venezuela, Greece, Bolivia, Argentina, Russia, China, Japan etc. and see how it works out. By the way Norway, Sweden, Finland are getting their financial pain in due time.

Socialists can’t improve or create a better situation for themselves so all they can do it destroy and take, confiscate from others.

Eat the young hens and you will not get anymore eggs.

#40 Nora Lenderby on 09.10.15 at 7:25 pm

#25 saskatoon on 09.10.15 at 6:52 pm

Welcome back. How was school today?

#41 earthboundmisfit on 09.10.15 at 7:26 pm

I will gladly sacrifice the extra 5k to get rid of the Harpocrite.

#42 ACCT on 09.10.15 at 7:28 pm

Would love to hear your take on the KPMG allegations in a post or, perhaps some delightfully concise italics below.

Cheers.

It was 15 years ago and I have no knowledge of it. You want me to make something up for you to criticize? — Garth

#43 McFly604 on 09.10.15 at 7:28 pm

#10 Adam

I make about $57,000 a year and have contributed the maximum amount to my TFSA for the last two years. This is while also paying rent in Downtown Vancouver. I had no problem stashing away $10K last year. Not sure what everyone else is spending all their money on?
I like a lot of what the NDP say they will do but lowering TFSA limits is not one of them.

#44 Ryan on 09.10.15 at 7:35 pm

“If you’re dumb enough to vote; then you’re dumb enough to believe ’em.”

#45 Greg on 09.10.15 at 7:35 pm

Hi Nosty, etc.,

I saw my parent last weekend. Dad mentioned he may vote Green this time based on what he heard in the one TV debate. So I sent him this link I received today. Thought you may be interested, possibly?
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/platform

As for the CBC Party leader interviews airing this week and I hear you can down load them. I’m interested to hear what Hon. MP Elizabeth May has to say in her interview airing on Fri., I believe.

Glade Garth is letting us know what the Parties leaders are planning if elected. Not sure I like the sounds of there plans for the TFSA and RRSP!

And ‘O’ I hadn’t heard that info about the Rhino Party’s promise if you vote for them…
But would I still respect myself in the morning?

#46 Mister Obvious on 09.10.15 at 7:39 pm

#22 Dwilly

Both factually and intuitively, you ought to know that 10k/person worth of TFSA room is too much for “average” people to hope to use, even if they’re living frugally.
————————————–

Then surely you must also be against the $24,930 RRSP contribution limit for 2015.

I mean really, what average people have that kind of scratch to contribute at the end of the year?

If you would theoretically stand against lowering the RRSP limit please present your logic.

#47 Entrepreneur on 09.10.15 at 7:44 pm

Have to agree with #22 Dwilly…most people cannot afford putting more into the TFSA. It will be only a few that can.

The three parties are on a different planet when trying to keep the house show going or heads buried in the sand. They probably know but they have to keep the old system standing and the people (puppets) are at their mercy. We definitely need a new political system. Hope so, one day.

#48 Daisy Mae on 09.10.15 at 7:47 pm

#22: “I’m not socialist and I have nothing against the rich…..the first 5k made sense and is admirable, and gives everyone a chance. The second 5k is just padding those that don’t need it.”

*****************

I agree.

#49 J.Thibeau on 09.10.15 at 7:49 pm

#32-Joe schmoe – for most of the voters,it all boils down to “what’s in it for me?”
For most of the candidates it all boils down to “what do I give to most of the biggest voting demographic that will vote for me? It appears the middle class is the “sweet spot”of voting demographics.
I won’t bother to bore you with what Winston Churchill
said about democracy,after a hypothetical 5 minute conversation with an average voter.

#50 AlbertaGuy on 09.10.15 at 7:49 pm

How bout similar to rrsp make tfsa contri bution % of income to some cap each year?

#51 X on 09.10.15 at 7:49 pm

So if the Liberals and NDP want to reduce the TFSA b/c not enough people get to fully use it, then would they also cancel most social assistance programs, as most Canadians don’t use those? Why not close all libraries, pools, as not everyone can read or swim.

I listened to Mulcair explain this morning how he would come up with the money to provide $15 a day, day care. He gave a 2 minute reply that didn’t answer the question. Which I have interpreted to either mean that he has no idea or he doesn’t want to say, as the real answer would not aid in getting votes.

#52 AlbertaGuy on 09.10.15 at 7:51 pm

Naw…forget it too much paper work . will have to hire more civil servants.

#53 Chaddywack on 09.10.15 at 7:55 pm

Hmmm, with the sexual innuendo on this site regularly I thought The Greater Fool was about orgasms.

That Rhino guy is ripping you off Garth!

#54 Cici on 09.10.15 at 8:01 pm

Oh Garth, this is definitely the best blog you’ve ever written–so good in fact that I’m already having multiple brain orgasms…but don’t worry, I’ll vote Rhino and have even more!

#55 TS on 09.10.15 at 8:11 pm

Don’t roll back the TFSAs

but if your taxable income + TFSA withdrawls in retirement is greater than $70,000, you should start clawing back your OAS.

Fairs fair…

Can’t collect senior welfare if you don’t need it

#56 BS on 09.10.15 at 8:15 pm

The Dippers are caving in to CREA’s demands to subsidize amateur landlords by eliminating capital gains tax on rental units, and the Libs have taken the cake by announcing that RRSPs would become open for real estate purchases

The Liberals also plan to give tax breaks to developers. It looks like both the NDP and Liberals will keep all the current Harper housing bubble policies and then dump more fuel on the fire with new policies. They are clearly trying to divert sound investment through TSFAs and RRSPs into real estate by cancelling the TSFA and allowing more tax free withdrawals of RRSPs. Then giving further tax breaks RE investors and developers (the 1%). All of these Liberal and NDP policies will make housing more expensive and benefit wealthy RE investors and developers. None of the tax breaks will get passed onto renters. They will just inflate land values. They make Harpers housing policies and tax breaks for the wealthy look moderate. Fools.

#57 Dwilly on 09.10.15 at 8:18 pm

#38 Mister Obvious

RRSP isn’t tax avoidance like TFSA is. It’s tax deferral. Every penny that goes in there will get taxed when you try to use it (and, progressively, if that’s your thing, the more you have in there, the more you’ll likely pay when it comes out). TFSA is tax avoidance, a pure giveaway. The first 5k of which can benefit almost anyone, the second 5k of which benefits very select few.

Is the RRSP limit too high? Could be. The real question is could that money be deployed more effectively for the good of society than where it’s currently going. I’m not sure I know the answer, but I’m also not sure that the Conservative party isn’t too low on creativity and way too high on ideology to figure it out either.

#58 slick on 09.10.15 at 8:20 pm

#23 Dwwilly;
you miss an important component of the TFSA, cumulative deposit room.
Let’s say your family makes $60-70K per year.
Has a small house and mortgage, kids in sports then college. car and house repairs, no money left to put in TFSA.
Parents turn 65, sell the house, for a million bucks, and Voila! a place to put that tax free capital gain. and that TFSA kicks out tax free cash for the rest of their lives.
People may not have the money now, but they might later.
BTW; I am sick of lil Justin whining about millionaires.
everyone that has owned a house on yyz or Vancouver for 5 years is a millionaire.
they just don’t know it..
Scotiabank is right,,,you are richer than you think
slick

#59 BS on 09.10.15 at 8:20 pm

The first 5k made sense and is admirable, and gives everyone a chance. The second 5k is just padding those that don’t need it. I would happily vote against it.

So instead give tax breaks to real estate developers and investors? They need it? Who needs it more the guy who can come up with $10K to invest or people who are developing RE and buying rental properties?

#60 salonist on 09.10.15 at 8:22 pm

“The PMO as rogue operation”…Michael Harris

“It is rather like Garth Turner, who earned the PM’s wrath by being too vocal in the media. Garth blew his chance for an appointment from Harper by committing the cardinal sin; speaking his mind so frequently he wasn’t even a candidate for re-education camp.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/08/27/duffy-trial-takeaway-the-pmo-as-rogue-operation/

#61 Randy on 09.10.15 at 8:23 pm

Let them run up as much debt as they want. I ain’t paying.

#62 Tony on 09.10.15 at 8:24 pm

TFSA’s are not for millionaires, millionaires park their money in offshore tax free havens. Poor people take out TFSA’s as the sum is so small it’s next to irrelevant unless you can gamble $5,500 or presently 10 G’s into at least several million dollars. At least it beats the old the first thousand dollars is tax free on investment income from days long gone by.

#63 Iwill on 09.10.15 at 8:25 pm

@steve #27

Steve this homeowner has obviously spent money on the property. There is no bubble. Housing appreciation doesn’t take into account the billions of renovations that are spent each year. Appreciation is modest in Toronto.

#64 MSM-Free Zone on 09.10.15 at 8:30 pm

Recently gave some serious thought to voting Rhino, but I just couldn’t accept the risk on being shot by a wealthy dentist.

Besides, in the big picture, there are far more pressing concerns to this election than a $5k increase in my annual TFSA contributions.

I shall be voting accordingly.

#65 ICHTD9 on 09.10.15 at 8:31 pm

#11 Millennial Realist on 09.10.15 at 6:21 pm
Oh, come now, Garth.

The only kind of socialism we have in Canada is socialism for the 1%. It’s been that way for a long time.

How naïve do you think people are?

Your own date prove how few people can take advantage of these ‘equal opportunity’ wealth building schemes.

That’s because our society has been recklessly tilted in favour of the few, for decades now.

Here’s yet another pathetic example of how the wealthiest are scamming the rest of us:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/kpmg-offshore-sham-deceived-tax-authorities-cra-alleges-1.3209838
————————–

Oh stop blubbering already and get a job.

Speaking of [failed] Socialism, Brazil just got junk bonded…

#66 Glen on 09.10.15 at 8:31 pm

I’ve been on here previously suggesting that Garth’s view that everyone can max out the TSFA is extremely suspect.

The statistics you mention Garth smell of some bad accounting to me anyway.

I don’t buy for a single second that anyone but the wealthy can max out the TFSA set at 20,000K.

Unless one is eating Alpo and living “off grid” anyway.

…or living in your parents basement.

…or have no kids.

I would think if you are earning 60,000K per year with two kids, a mortgage, car payments, orthodontist bills, insurance premiums, gas, food and STILL maxing the 20,000K….you either had a relative pay off your mortgage or inherited cash in some manner.

None of the above demographic would define the “average Canadian” I don’t think.

TSFA at 20,000K is designed with the wealthy…. or the kin of the wealthy as far as I can tell.

And frankly I think the grand majority of average working Canadians were annoyed with the increase recognizing that it was once again…a feed the wealthy policy. It might well be partly why the conservatives have sunk in the polls even.

Nope Garth…Respectfully as always…I think you are wrong on the actual utility of 20,000K in TSFA room for the average Canadian.

Never did I suggest everyone can max out their TFSAs. Most people can’t because money runs through their fingers and they consume more than they earn. Many can change that if they wish, however. The others moan and vote to tax the rich. — Garth

#67 Bruce on 09.10.15 at 8:36 pm

Is this Canada’s “Cecil the Lion”
Who are these people and is what they are doing legal?

I have chosen to delete the video linked here as its depiction of animal cruelty is too graphic. — Garth

#68 MSM-Free Zone on 09.10.15 at 8:36 pm

#39 Nora Lenderby on 09.10.15 at 7:25 pm
_________________________

DELETED upon request of the submitter.

#69 Mr. Monday Night on 09.10.15 at 8:38 pm

No quandry here – voting for no one = four more years of status quo, which is unacceptable.

What difference does rolling back the TFSA make when most of us are just struggling to pay off the credit cards and mortgages?

Better to try something different at this point and see what plays out. Doesn’t really matter, I’m using the old Danny Williams ABC strategy.

As Raffi says: “I want my Canada back!”

p.s. if you’re a household of three or more making $65K or less and claiming to be maxing out your TFSA, I call BS or you’re still living in your parents’ basement.

#70 For those about to flop... on 09.10.15 at 8:47 pm

Several people have asked why the NDP are called “Dippers” but I have yet to see the answer.
My guess is that if you believe what Garth writes I will be “Dipping” into my savings account a lot more if they win the election.

#71 Glen on 09.10.15 at 8:47 pm

I’m back. Let’s do some math shall we:

60,000K per year which translates after tax, EI, CPP deductions and any other employer deductions to a net of approximately 38,000.

So 38,000 subtract the max out of 20,000K leaves one with 18,000K per year to live on.

So what does the average house cost in say…Bellville Ontario these days? 250,000K?

What’s the annual mortgage cost on that? 10,000?

Property tax? 3000K

Small leased kia? 3000K

Gas? 1000K

What does a grocery bill look like these days for a family of 4 let’s say? 8000K per year ( it is BTW)

Insurance for car/home? 1000K

Cripes I’m already behind now by 7000K per year! And have not even mentioned clothes, any RRSP or RESP contribution, dental bills, an occasional movie, or a bloody piano lesson for even one of the impoverished children I am apparently caring for.

I think I just laid it out for all to see. The average Canadian just ain’t plugging 20,00K into the TFSA even if they desperately wanted to.

The average Canadian is not maxing out her RRSP either. Or their baby’s RESP. Or the family’s disabled child’s RDSP. You have no argument. — Garth

#72 Freedom First on 09.10.15 at 8:49 pm

I find it disturbing that the Liberals and the NDP are making H look good. Also, though it may sound good, buying orgasms doesn’t work. Just ask any married man.

#73 Funky on 09.10.15 at 8:54 pm

I’m in.

#74 For those about to flop... on 09.10.15 at 8:54 pm

In a time of record indebtness why would a government even want to put a limit on a TFSA.
What’s wrong with encouraging people to save and fend for themselves .
The banks are making record profits so that means the government is taking record taxes this should be enough to waive the lost taxes taken from the little guy/gal.

#75 espressobob on 09.10.15 at 8:54 pm

For those who are a little confused.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party

#76 Votetogether on 09.10.15 at 8:55 pm

TFSA is good where it was to 10K it will just benefit the top 20% and end up starving the future government of taxable $$. dumb policy just like the 70K RRSP withdrawal for a house. bribing us with our own $$
just sign up and Votetogether.com

#77 Bottoms_Up on 09.10.15 at 8:58 pm

#11 Millennial Realist on 09.10.15 at 6:21 pm
—————————————–
Issues of corporations screwing the taxpayer (that’s us) and therefore downloading costs on us (the taxpayer) are not allowed to be highlighted on this financial blog for the 1%, don’t you get that?

Oh get real. None of us know any details of one rich family getting caught evading taxes. How does that prove anything? — Garth

#78 Glen on 09.10.15 at 8:59 pm

The average Canadian is not maxing out her RRSP either. Or their baby’s RESP. Or the family’s disabled child’s RDSP. You have no argument. — Garth

Respectfully (and I mean that in a non brown nosey way)…what you just said is nonsensical.

As my breakdown on the 60,000K demonstrated…of course they are not maximizing the RRSP either. I had that 60,000K scenario already in arrears by 7,000K BEFORE even considering an RRSP contribution.

This is why the argument goes that the middle class is lagging (virtually no increase in wages despite ongoing even minimal inflation year over year).

It’s becoming less and less likely for the average Canadian to look after their finances even IF they were diligent (like my fictitious person above).

#79 LP on 09.10.15 at 8:59 pm

But if living for today’s the only goal of this election, best vote Rhinoceros.

Leader Sébastien Corriveau has made this promise: “The moment when you vote Rhino, you will automatically have an orgasm.”
************************
Best reason I can think of to “vote early; vote often”

L

#80 Retired Boomer - WI on 09.10.15 at 8:59 pm

Wowzer….. Cutting back TFSA room is a bit of a non-started for me.

If you CAN max out to the 10 Grand limit every year try to do that. If you can’t it still pays to see how far you can get toward the mark. Always take any RRSP match from an employer.

RRSP still gives a working family room to tax shelter the growth (plus any match) – and your weird law on tax splitting tax shifting – to make the best deals you can.

Your version of social security sort of sucks, but then you probably aren’t paying 12% of every paycheck between you & your employer to fund the dam thing. OAS is geezer welfare and don’t count on it being there, or not being clawed back at some future date.

Politicians both LIE, and change their political minds over time.

So do we. WE joe to ourselves saying, “I can use this retirement money to buy the home I “Need”

Instead, why not try making your money work for you, rather than the DEBT gods at the Bank?

A greater Fool has YET to be invented. (my opinion)

#81 Linda on 09.10.15 at 9:02 pm

Re #65 – I’m with Garth on this one. I’ve seen at first hand those who can’t (or won’t) save for tomorrow; I’ve also seen at first hand someone who could make a penny go around twice & come out with change. Door #1 – the spenders – by far outweigh door #2 – the savers.

No, not ‘everyone’ will be able to take full advantage of the TFSA, regardless of what the actual maximum contribution will be. Ditto to the above, how many billions – or is it trillions by now? – in RRSP contribution room has not been utilized by the Canadian taxpayer? As for TFSA being something only ‘the rich’ can use, well goodness, the definition of rich has sure been revised over the years. Someone earning $25,000 or even $60,000 per annum is not ‘rich’ – not on that salary alone, anyway. Yet as per comments I’ve been reading, anyone who actually does max out their RRSP or TFSA must be ‘rich’ to be able to do so? I don’t think so. I think those who don’t save will always have a reason not to save & will always blame someone else for their lack of income, because, hey, they HAD to own a house, HAD to have a (new to them) car, HAD to get away because hey, they deserved a break & the flight to destination X was a really good deal, etc. And lets not even get into using the children as an excuse for poor money management. Seriously, take some responsibility for your money management skills or lack thereof.

#82 Bottoms_Up on 09.10.15 at 9:10 pm

Most people can’t because money runs through their fingers…….
———————————
Garth I disagree here. Put yourself at the age of 25. Fresh off a masters degree. You put yourself through school and land a job paying 40k/yr. Man, you are lucky #1 to find a decent rental for less than $1000, #2 lucky if you don’t have to pay back schooling debt for the next two years, and forget about saving 70k for a 20% downpayment on a house. Are you suppose to forego car ownership to make TFSA contributions? What about heat and hydro? Not have internet? Eat drywall instead of paying for food?

I think you are out of touch with the impact of current living expenses on regular folk (ie, the working poor).

A 25-year-old with a Masters Degree who remains part of the ‘working poor’ is an idiot. Try for a better fictional example to prove your lame point. That sucked. — Garth

#83 Henry Ford on 09.10.15 at 9:14 pm

An educational podcast about the role of Economists in our society:
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/it-s-the-economists-stupid-1.3219471

“Richard Denniss and Julie Nelson believe current economic group think produces a mantra that supports cutting taxes, reducing deficits, massive down-sizing, bloated CEO salaries, and “shrinking social programs till they scream”. Julie Nelson concludes these trends not only generate more poverty; they hollow out the middle-class, and that’s bad for capitalism. She says: “this was figured out a long time ago. Henry Ford wanted to pay a wage to his workers that would allow them to buy the kinds of cars they were making…”

(If you don’t have time to listen to the entire podcast, then start at 22:35.)

#84 Glen on 09.10.15 at 9:23 pm

#81 Linda said:

I think those who don’t save will always have a reason not to save & will always blame someone else for their lack of income, because, hey, they HAD to own a house, HAD to have a (new to them) car, HAD to get away because hey, they deserved a break & the flight to destination X was a really good deal, etc. And lets not even get into using the children as an excuse for poor money management. Seriously, take some responsibility for your money management skills or lack thereof.

Really? Did you read #71?

And I think it’s offensive to suggest that those who have children and are unable to save 20,000K are “using their children as an excuse”

Children are expensive and wonderful critters. That’s not an excuse…that’s just reality.

Take a peek at post #71 and get back to me again about how that fictitious average family has “poor money management skills”

Clearly I don’t know anything about you Linda but when I read your comments I can only speculate that you probably don’t meet the “average Canadian” demographic ( Family income less that 75,000K, kids, mortgage ,childcare expenses etc etc).

Maybe you are an “average Canadian”…and you have indeed managed to max out savings as Garth implies everyone who isn’t stupid should be able to.

And if this is the case than by all means break down post #71 for me and point out where the accounting went wrong?

BTW…in post #71…I didn’t even mention childcare expenses assuming one spouse stayed home.

I have been tracking expenses since 1997 and feel 100% confident that post #71 is an accurate reflection.

And if it is (it is)…then Garth and you Linda must be living in la la land if you think the average Canadian….without help from family…can contribute 20,000K to the TSFA.

The TFSA limit is ten grand, not $20,000. It should be the first money any person saves/invests in a year. — Garth

#85 Mark in Guelph on 09.10.15 at 9:23 pm

A 25-year-old with a Masters Degree who remains part of the ‘working poor’ is an idiot. Try for a better fictional example to prove your lame point. That sucked. — Garth

So that would include essentially every instructor hired at colleges and universities in Ontario over the last decade. They’re all partial load, 12 paid hours a week or so, even though with prep and marking they clearly work a full week. The rare full time position is met with dozens of applicants.

I think there are a great many highly educated, highly skilled Canadians who are working poor, with very little concern from Garth’s generation.

Their choice. — Garth

#86 lala on 09.10.15 at 9:24 pm

What the heck are you guys talking about, tsfa, rsp blablabla and who is Rhyno!

#87 entropic entity on 09.10.15 at 9:29 pm

#11 Millennial Realist

“Oh, come now, Garth…”

Hey Realist, are you suggesting Garth should vote Rhino now, in an advance poll? Seems a bit premature. Do they really come this early in the campaign? It would be nice if one could vote Rhino with a mail-in ballot to avoid the complications of coming out of the house.

#88 Freedom First on 09.10.15 at 9:33 pm

#81 Linda

Well done. People will hate you for what you just said. They can’t handle the truth.

#89 Henry Ford on 09.10.15 at 9:34 pm

Oh get real. None of us know any details of one rich family getting caught evading taxes. How does that prove anything? — Garth

Garth, the head of the family did speak out with some details about how he got involved in the scheme. It’s reasonable to expect that more than one high net-worth client of the very large tax/accounting firm would have been similarly advised.

Also, another tax-evasion story made news last week:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/02/total-planning-to-fight-11-5-million-tax-bill-from-canada-revenue-agency_n_8078980.html

Thanks for the daily blog. I greatly appreciate your helpful insights and entertainment.

#90 cecilhenry on 09.10.15 at 9:40 pm

Completely backward thinking–treating Canadians like slaves and property of the government.

ALL of my after tax earnings should be eligible for a TFSA.

I should not be taxed twice. This is a major source of savings and prosperity for people

If I spent the money on hookers and beer it would be just fine.

But how DARE I invest it and grow it profitable.

This is absolutely disgusting to me.

#91 Gregor Samsa on 09.10.15 at 9:42 pm

I like how conservatives are framing the debate here. They make it sound like if they don’t have their huge TFSA, they will be unable to invest and and they will be eating cat food in the back alley instead. In reality, they can still invest, they will just pay tax on the gains, as they should.

The TFSA was never meant to be (or least shouldn’t be) a vehicle for the rich to avoid paying tax. It was supposed to be about helping the little guy and encouraging him to save and invest more. A modest TFSA limit keeps it from being too heavily exploited by the rich but also helps the average Joe.

The proper way to deal with the TFSA would be keep edging it up slowly. Maybe $500 per year. Everyone would be happy, nobody would complain. But no, Harper had an election to win so he laid out a big whopper of a bribe: $10,000 per year. Nobody did the math, nobody crunched the numbers on the long term impact. The only calculus run was how many potential votes it could attract.

Some people are easily bought, I suppose. But it’s still bad policy. Hopefully the next government corrects this, and all the other bad policy Harper will be leaving as his legacy.

The TFSA is universal and egalitarian. All may benefit equally from a uniform limit. If you disagree, why are Dippers not railing against the RRSP, the contribution allowance for which rises with income, giving a huge advantage to high earners? — Garth

#92 Henry Ford on 09.10.15 at 9:44 pm

#85 Mark in Guelph on 09.10.15 at 9:23 pm

Want to earn more with a masters degree? Work for the government.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Degree=Master's_Degree/Salary

#93 OXI in GREECE !! on 09.10.15 at 9:46 pm

#43 McFly604 on 09.10.15 at 7:28 pm
#10 Adam

I make about $57,000 a year and have contributed the maximum amount to my TFSA for the last two years. This is while also paying rent in Downtown Vancouver. I had no problem stashing away $10K last year. Not sure what everyone else is spending all their money on?
I like a lot of what the NDP say they will do but lowering TFSA limits is not one of them.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I bet you are not the only bread winner with a wife and two kids which is why most Canadians cannot put away anything to their TFSA. There is so much cherry picking on this blog it almost reads as fiction.

#94 joblo on 09.10.15 at 9:50 pm

#86 lala

“What the heck are you guys talking about, tsfa, rsp blablabla and who is Rhyno!”

Guberment programs for the dependant, lazy, financially illiterate Canuckleheads who have rather than taking personal responsibility want a nanny and will vote for MUCKlair.

#95 Willy H on 09.10.15 at 9:52 pm

Not surprised to find the TFSA increase will be rolled back. It was a desperate political ploy catering to part of Harper’s well off base. This increase was paired with income splitting which drew a great deal of attention to perks for high income earners by economists and pundits alike. It was a silly political move when most Canadians live pay cheque to pay cheque.

Personally it makes absolutely no difference to me because ultimately my taxes would have had to increase dramatically to cover off the revenue shortfalls in the years and decades to come. More importantly, TFSA’s have increased the divide between haves and have-nots.

I am fortunate to have my TFSA’s maxed and well invested. I understand the benefit. I understand that it’s a gift. But what’s best for me is not necessarily whats best for my nation.

Your nation is best served when the population is not dependent. Removing one path to that end is hardly progressive. — Garth

#96 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 9:53 pm

#82 Bottoms_Up on 09.10.15 at 9:10 pm
Most people can’t because money runs through their fingers…….
———————————
Garth I disagree here. Put yourself at the age of 25. Fresh off a masters degree. You put yourself through school and land a job paying 40k/yr. Man, you are lucky #1 to find a decent rental for less than $1000, #2 lucky if you don’t have to pay back schooling debt for the next two years, and forget about saving 70k for a 20% downpayment on a house. Are you suppose to forego car ownership to make TFSA contributions? What about heat and hydro? Not have internet? Eat drywall instead of paying for food?

I think you are out of touch with the impact of current living expenses on regular folk (ie, the working poor).

A 25-year-old with a Masters Degree who remains part of the ‘working poor’ is an idiot. Try for a better fictional example to prove your lame point. That sucked. — Garth
………

The working poor is a conscious choice un educated people make. Usally the schooled

This high school drop out got bounced from a great gig 300k a year.

So I look around to replace my casino funding..USA no problem, but the wife seems to like living in a Communists County.

Ok plan B , look around Canada, wtf no way Im working for half my rate.. Temporary Foreign Workers really bringing down the bench mark..

What does any educated self taught code smith do..

He builds automation tools for small wholesalers and auto repair shops..

Working One day a week, im projecting 800k a year.

If your working poor, it a choice you made…

Opportunity is out there…shame the socialist teachers never taught you about this thing called owning a business.

It goes against eveything they believe.

#97 Henry Ford on 09.10.15 at 9:55 pm

Anyone else feeling the Harper blues?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJjt3hZ0sxQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR9wFrdY7cw

#98 Nora Lenderby on 09.10.15 at 9:56 pm

Hmm…Mr. H’s team is bringing on a substitute:

Tories seek out ‘Australian rottweiler’ Lynton Crosby

Strange days indeed.

#99 Wrong math on 09.10.15 at 9:58 pm

I don’t think the regular canadian family can save at all.
One makes 50k the other one 35k that will bring 5.500 max per month.
Housing 1500, kids care 1000, groceries 1500, one kia 500, that leaves them with 1000/month for holidays chlothing utilities and maybe internet to read this blog of rich oligarchs.
Give me a break, we are maxed out thanks to stupid cmhc policies and low interest rates.
This will be a slow recession, no scares like 08/09 people will suffer in silence on their granite countertops.
I bet 100$ Yellen is rising .25 next week

#100 Andrew Woburn on 09.10.15 at 10:01 pm

#56 Salonist

“It is rather like Garth Turner, who earned the PM’s wrath by being too vocal in the media. Garth blew his chance for an appointment from Harper by committing the cardinal sin; speaking his mind so frequently he wasn’t even a candidate for re-education camp.”
=========================

Garth is really an Independent, not a tame Conservative. Canadians won’t elect Independents because it’s a “waste of a vote”. Yet they endlessly complain about the overbearing power of party leaders which voters granted them. Now go away and smack your head.

#101 Mark in Guelph on 09.10.15 at 10:03 pm

Their choice. — Garth

There’s that compassion. Boomers and their parents had relatively stable, well paying, full time work, many with one employer for life.

My 62 year old uncle talks about graduating university and employers coming to the school to recruit at job fairs. The jobs came to them, you were all but guaranteed full time work. None of this 6 month contract nonsense so prevalent today.

My 69 year old uncle came from Italy at 20 and changed jobs 3 times in his first week here, left because the pay got better. Retired with that third company.

The older blog dogs will claim these stories are anomalies, but the entire experience of my parents, aunts and uncles proves to me that secure well paying work was much easier to come by for them.

Not to mention house prices being 2 to 3 times earnings rather than 6 to 10 times.

The average family can’t save $20 000 a year Garth, the money isn’t there.

#102 kommykim on 09.10.15 at 10:03 pm

RE: #57 Dwilly on 09.10.15 at 8:18 pm
#38 Mister Obvious
RRSP isn’t tax avoidance like TFSA is.

Well, actually it can be.
Lets say you are in a 30% tax bracket and make a $14,286 RRSP contribution.
Refund = $4,286 (So you are really only $10K out of pocket in after tax money)
You make 10% over two years
Total = $15,715 ($14,286 + 10%)
Then cash it out while you are still in a 30% tax bracket.
Net after 30% taxes = $11,000 ($15,715 – 30%)

Looks to me like you just made 10% return with no tax!

#103 BG on 09.10.15 at 10:11 pm

Bringing the TFSA limit to $10 000/y was a very cheap shot to gain votes.

However, making an argument that it should be lowered back to 5500% is not only an even cheaper shot but it’s also a waste of energy and debate time.

If people spent less on overpriced real estate, they would have more $$$ to put in the TFSA.
Since none of the 3 parties are ready to address the real estate situation, they’re having a proxy war on TFSA.

It’s just ridiculous.

Although I do benefit fully from the $10 000 TFSA limit, I’d be happy to give it up for a party has is not obviously corrupt or incompetent.

#104 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 10:13 pm

Ironically most of my auto shop client’s, most are of east indian descent. Great people to deal with, tough at negotiating, but so am Im I.

But I think of all of them flooding the world of IT under the TFW program. Why are they not doing what Im doing.

Most coders from any walk of life are usless anyway, its an art… Ive been around, for every master, there are about 100 usless oids occupying a seat.

You would think, they have a cousin or newfew that does this kind of work.

They do, and they have done stuff, and the owners…

A quote from tonight….

They dont know what they are doing.hopeless.

You can expect many flash crashes, critical system breakdowns going forward in the world of TFW.

You get what you pay for…

#105 Quebec is Great on 09.10.15 at 10:14 pm

I’m with McFly and Linda, 60k annual and live frugally to make the 10k contribution limit. Its a sacrifice but I know its worth it.
My biggest election issues are
1. potential corporate tax increases – a bad year of phantom inventory profit taxataion can wipe me out with high tax levels.
2. TFSA contribution levels – Honestly don’t understand why ANYONE with a brain would want to see this lowered. Do what you have to and get the max contribution in – self employed and no pension has made me grasp onto the TFSA like a financial lifesaving buoy (which it is).

yes, I’m for legalizing the green stuff and think it would be a great financial boon to the country (by taxing sales of it) and significantly reduce costs in the penal and legal system… so notch one up for Trudeau. and I can’t stand Harper.. however, corporate tax issues and TFSA contribution room outweigh everything else (in my case), so I’ll hold my nose and vote conservative.

#106 Clearwater79 on 09.10.15 at 10:18 pm

Garth,

Someone with a masters degress who is part of the workinv poor is an idiot. I know lots of the, and they all whine about “deserving” more. Dont even get me started on their student loans that went 20% to tuition and 80% to living the good live in college. Barf!!!

#107 Sean on 09.10.15 at 10:19 pm

Leader Sébastien Corriveau has made this promise: “The moment when you vote Rhino, you will automatically have an orgasm.”

—–

Oh Christ… I know we all overuse lol.. but I really did laugh out loud. And with a mouth full of wine.. messy!

#108 Leo Trollstoy on 09.10.15 at 10:20 pm

#96 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 9:53 pm

Once again I gotta agree with my main man SM

If you spent a quarter century ‘learning’ and all you can get is $40k a year, that’s your own damn fault.

And probably deserve it too cuz you’re likely an idiot.

#109 liquidincalgary on 09.10.15 at 10:20 pm

#2 JG on 09.10.15 at 6:06 pm

at least the Rhino party is offering something other than the status quo. I ‘m in!

============================================

careful what you wish for…it might just be a reach-around!

#110 Mister Obvious on 09.10.15 at 10:23 pm

#57 Dwilly

I strongly disagree that the RRSP is somehow more ‘fair’ than the TFSA.

Posters on this blog in the last year have convinced me that thanks to the effect of tax-free compounding, the RRSP has equal or greater power than the TFSA to build wealth provided that taxpayer maximizes contributions and continually reinvests the tax rebate. This is true regardless of the fact that future RRSP withdrawals are taxable.

Now I realize very few people will ever do this but it is a perfectly valid and legal strategy. By the same token, few people will max out their $10K TFSA contribution but it shouldn’t be such source of concern if they do.

The TFSA is being slammed around because it makes good political hay and because many Canadians don’t seem to understand what it is and how it should be used.

Instead, they are being encouraged drain their savings to buy a house or condominium they can’t afford.

It really is time to stop the madness.

#111 lala on 09.10.15 at 10:23 pm

Honestly people have no real life…short story. It took me 2 hours to get to Milton today cuz they were fixing
a bridge on 401 west. Funny part is when I got back to Toronto I got stuck for another 2 hours, damn i Said to myself you run out of luck today lala when boooooooom, traffic it was caused by people slowing down and watching the other side, the damn BRIDGE on 401 west. Well…..Build higher protection highway walls so idiots can’t see the other side of the road, solved. Next!

#112 Freddie on 09.10.15 at 10:29 pm

I know this has been the case for a very long time, but this just illustrates how far we have stayed from our pioneer self reliant heritage. Instead of encouraging saving (and keeping people off of the dole – which will never be sustainable), it now political virtuous to punish and make villains of savers. This reminds me of the fable of the poor farmer who’s cow dies. A genie appears and grants him one wish, which he takes. He wished his neighbour’s cow would die.

As the sayng goes, people get the government they deserve.

#113 Dee on 09.10.15 at 10:31 pm

Garth’s point in #91 is one I wish we’d here more often. I’ve read several studies that find the RRSP to be far more regressive than the TFSA.

The TFSA is a truly rare thing–a merit-based, rather than income-based, vehicle. Everyone’s dollar has the same chance of doing well inside. But most people actively avoid learning about investments and their TFSA funds in a savings account earning 0.10%.

Every dollar I can save goes to the TFSA. When it gets full, I start putting it in the RRSP. When tax time comes around, the refund I get from the RRSP tax credit goes right into the TFSA…and the cycle repeats itself.

I never thought of myself as a 1%er–not even close, on income levels–but Garth’s numbers here (per centage of Canadians with a TFSA, and per centage of maxed out TFSAs) tell me I’m in the 2.3%, apparently. Huh.

How do I do it, even on a modest income? Mostly by renting a house in Toronto for about 1/4 to 1/3 the monthly cost to own the same house. Take that savings, shove it into the TFSA, and you’ll be maxed out by the end of the second quarter every year.

#114 common sense on 09.10.15 at 10:39 pm

Again I will respectfully ask…

I am curious to hear what fellow bloggers opinions on the TFSA being repealed in the future to help pay for OAS, debt, gov’t programs, etc as the population ages and less tax money from a smaller pool of people is available…

#115 Estrella on 09.10.15 at 10:41 pm

So, people who can’t afford to max out TFSA’s do not want people who can to max theirs out. We are talking about AFTER TAX dollars here folks. That means, taxes have already been paid. Now, if said people who can afford to invest in TFSA then contribute those dollars towards let’s say “furthering the economy” , then why are people so against this? Sounds like plain old jealousy to me. “I can’t so I don’t want anyone else to”.

This same jealousy has led people to over extend themselves in real estate, and therefore automatically make them unable to afford maxed out TFSA’s.

BTW since these are AFTER TAX Dollars, people can choose to invest the money however they please. Your jealousy may simply allow those that “can” save to invest outside the country and outside our economy.

Nice , real smart!!

#116 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 10:41 pm

#108 Leo Trollstoy on 09.10.15 at 10:20 pm
#96 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 9:53 pm

Once again I gotta agree with my main man SM

If you spent a quarter century ‘learning’ and all you can get is $40k a year, that’s your own damn fault.

And probably deserve it too cuz you’re likely an idiot.

They don’t know any better.. They went through the school system, they were sold a big lie , endoursed by mom and dad, they paid through the nose, and now….realty.

The boss is a Smoking Man.

Im ridiculous, my net worth just shy of 20 big ones..

I had the knob that controls the water in my shower fall off about a year ago….have a pair of rusting vise grips latched onto the brass stick that controls it.

You would think, I would have had it fixed by now…

But my former usless millennial children might think , hey dads rich again and go back to there ways..

Not taken any chances…

When I hit the street selling my software, its like fishing, nothing feels better than hooking one. It almost orgasmic..

Plus, kids feel sorry for me when I lie and say I only made 100 bucks this week..we are doomed.

Amazing.. They are offering me money now….

It was a long hard road..but my kids now finally get it,
When we kick the bucket, they are going to be supper pissed, and over the moon in happness.

Just dont put us in one of those blue steel chepo caskits.

And if they did, my ghost would be high fiving them

#117 John on 09.10.15 at 10:42 pm

#57 Dwilly

TFSA contributions are made with AFTER tax money. The income tax has already been paid. What’s left over can be put into your TFSA. It is not pure tax avoidance as you put it unless it is gifted to you by inheritence or something. I don’t understand why this 10k TFSA is so political and getting everyone up in arms. We pay 30-40% income tax and then they want to tax us again for successfully investing the leftovers. The TFSA clearly benefits the middle class. Not the rich as our socialist leaders keep saying. The rich have millions. They don’t care about tax sheltering another 5k in investments
Seriously.

#118 Gonkman on 09.10.15 at 10:46 pm

I hope the TFSA Increase survives but I doubt it will.

Too many Angry Greater Fools out there who are all ABC!

Maybe I should vote for the new Liberal Candidate in my area?

Lets see… He’s a Retired General from Military who is collecting a 35 Year (EX-5) equivalent pension which is probably about 125K a year.

(I don’t have an issue with him collecting his pension. He paid in and EARNED it).

But wow he wants to get elected and get a $163K+ salary on top of his $125K Pension.

8 years later he can collect both pensions at around say 250K a year?

I Guess some Liberals don’t need the TFSA hence the cut.

Sorry bud… no vote for you. You did your service (Thank you!).

Go enjoy life and volunteer.

Hmm.. Better yet… if you get elected send me your 1st year’s MP salary. I will retire for you after I get the cheque.

#119 Mark on 09.10.15 at 10:55 pm

“A 25-year-old with a Masters Degree who remains part of the ‘working poor’ is an idiot. Try for a better fictional example to prove your lame point. That sucked. — Garth”

Normally I wouldn’t come out of my self-imposed exile, but I’ll cheat just this once. Employment prospects for those with advanced degrees not directly applicable to the few hot sectors in the Canadian economy have been awful for so many years now. Most Masters grads are lucky to even find a job, if they can find anything at all, on account of being ‘overqualified’ for the few entry-level jobs that exist. R&D budgets cut to the bone, and ‘structured’ HR heavily discourages the hiring of people who may be ‘overqualified’ but under-experienced.

‘fraid to say this, but it seem Garth is not up to date on the modern reality of what’s been happening to college graduates in so many sectors. Especially with advanced degrees, for which the ‘overqualified’ or “too expensive” labels can be easily applied.

#120 Chris on 09.10.15 at 10:57 pm

I really don’t get Canadian politics. Who would campaign on reducing something that is tax free, especially when that something can seriously benefit the middle class. In the US that would be political suiside. I guess Justin and Tom are not too smart. How do you choose among a really evil devil and two dumb ones? That is the question. I just hope Justin does not do something so dumb that would hand the throne back to Harper.

#121 Rabbit One on 09.10.15 at 11:05 pm

I maybe lucky to be able to max TFSA since 2009, even this is “after tax dollar” “not deductible from income like RSP”, still lot of advantage for me.

By the stats, very few people are able to max TFSA limit, besides, many don’t even have TFSA account yet.

Also many are even skipping RRSP contribution, or even HBP re-payment.

I wonder how TFSA limit is so much a big deal.

Very disappointing seeing how Canadian citizens’ reaction, and all political parties’ unsustainable, short term focus talking….

#122 Nemesis on 09.10.15 at 11:12 pm

“But if living for today’s the only goal of this election, best vote Rhinoceros.’ – Hon. GT

#Nonsense,Or… #NotWhileThere’s… #StillAChance… #Mr.PeanutWillRun… #ItWas1974,Vancouver…

https://youtu.be/j_b3c0driO4

#123 Smoking Man on 09.10.15 at 11:16 pm

When CFTO throws Harpo under the bus…Justin under the bus..

My take, 11 Re-Mortgages Tommy boy ….is now owned by the machine..

Memorys of the Great working class hero, Labour party man, Tony Blair.

The commies are in for a surprise…

#124 common sense on 09.10.15 at 11:21 pm

Funny…Just heard renting is the more popular option compared to home ownership in the USA today with home ownership rates at par with 1967 levels…

Too difficult to have enough money for a down payment and lending standards are very stringent…

Oh the irony….

#125 millenial1982 on 09.10.15 at 11:25 pm

Well if the baby boomers can’t retire then:
– we won’t have to worry about sudden mass retirements leaving huge voids in the workforce with not enough people to replace them.
– the economy will benefit because working people spend more than retired ones.
– business will benifit because many will eventually opt for part time work.
Most people are better off working at some capacity anyway for their own well being. It’s a fact.

#126 Sheane Wallace on 09.10.15 at 11:26 pm

A 25-year-old with a Masters Degree who remains part of the ‘working poor’ is an idiot. Try for a better fictional example to prove your lame point. That sucked. — Garth
…………………………
It is actually very common. 99 % of the 25 years old with masters degree are and will be working poor. The exceptions have 1 % parents.

masters degree in Canada means nothing, general labour.

I know people at top (world # 1) management consulting agency at that age who can’t afford home in Toronto.

These are different times, baby boomer had it good, no somebody else have to pay much more for much less.

#127 kommykim on 09.10.15 at 11:28 pm

RE: #119 Mark on 09.10.15 at 10:55 pm
Normally I wouldn’t come out of my self-imposed exile, but I’ll cheat just this once.

Are you a politician?

#128 For those about to flop... on 09.10.15 at 11:29 pm

I can’t wait for Mark to come out of his self imposed exile
Said no one…

#129 Young & a TFSA Lover on 09.10.15 at 11:39 pm

For a long time we’ve always had a tax free savings vehicle – it’s called your own home. Just like a TFSA, if your investments go up or down, it’s you’re problem.

The so called experts and some politicians argue that only the rich benefit from a $10,000 limit on your TFSA. Well, it’s kind of like real estate right now – only the rich can afford to buy shelter in many Canadian cities. I don’t see too many politicians worrying about that.

If a person has decided to rent, live modestly and save so they can top up their TFSA to the limit, I don’t think they should be punished. Another way to save for your retirement should always be welcome.

If Mulcair and Trudeau want to cap the TFSA at $5000 a year, maybe they should also consider that any capital gain on the sale of your prinipal home have an annual exception of only $5000 for every year of ownership of that home. That might slow down out of control real estate values a bit.

#130 Linda on 09.10.15 at 11:39 pm

Never said saving would be ‘easy’ – it isn’t. Always some expense or tempting item to purchase which fritters away the funds that could be saved. As for children, I stand by the words not to use them as an excuse regards saving. ‘But children are expensive’. Well, they aren’t cheap, but they need not keep up with the Jones either. Seems to me a lot of parents use their children as status symbols. ‘oh, you still have your little Jill or John doing that? My Jill/John is doing X’ – with the implication, natch, that you are depriving your child or are a poor parent because your Jill/John isn’t doing ‘x’. Or wearing the latest ‘in’ clothing, or using the most recent release of tech gadget/phone etc.

‘Glen’ says fictitious family example, but then mentions both a mortgage & a leased vehicle, mentions groceries for a family of 4 & mentions piano lessons for even one of the ‘impoverished children I am apparently caring for’. So – no rental for family of 4 available? No public transportation or second hand vehicle? Children don’t ‘need’ piano lessons but if there is a genuine ability, are there no scholarships? Maybe a barter deal could be done? As for the occasional movie, anything wrong with getting the DVD from the library & making your own popcorn? And while one is at it, whatever happened to children earning their own money to pay for extras? Where is it written that the parent must provide more than the basics or be a bad parent? Given how many seem to feel that they are ‘owed’, maybe not providing ‘more’ is actually being a good parent – for one thing, those who have to earn the stuff sure do seem to appreciate it more than those who are given it.

As for saving, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. ‘From small acorns do mighty oaks grow’ – pay yourself first is advised by many money management experts & if your income is limited, start small. But start & remember, ‘can’t be done’ is a self fulfilling prophecy.

#131 Nosty, etc. on 09.10.15 at 11:44 pm

“The moment when you vote Rhino, you will automatically have an orgasm.”

Speaking of sexual dysfunctionalities, this lady is free to enlighten all of us with new ideas!

It is obvious that the three stooges are incapable of doing a half-assed job in running the country. For that reason, I will do my civic duty and vote Green, who may have a handful of reps. elected. Once again, I choose “None Of The Above”.
*
Is the DoJ about to do an Iceland? A21 = Replacement Migration Muslims are easier to control than others, but add the new migrants to this mess, which leaves a powderkeg; Good question How many were leaving Syria prior to the US regime change? Perhaps this is why the US continually puts out propaganda of the false kind; Just as the left-leaning Dippers are basking in their 15 minutes of fame, so it is spreading across the pond, and the ‘establishment’ doesn’t like it one bit; A.I. bosses Meet the new bosses, not the same as the old bosses.

#132 MF on 09.10.15 at 11:54 pm

#113 Dee on 09.10.15 at 10:31 pm

Right on. The RRSP is a bit of a dinosaur. Rarely do people under 35 use it. The idea of having your tax rate minimized while you are at “peak earning” is anachronistic. “peak earning” for most people these days is cobbling together whatever part time garbage they can find. Lol raises? What’s that?

#120 Chris on 09.10.15 at 10:57 pm

^^ Great post.

What a bunch of pathetic losers we’ve become where we have main political parties pandering to our financial illiteracy by parading the idea of reducing tax free account contribution room so they can get votes. Are we really that stupid? Yep. “Now go buy some overpriced garbage RE in the GTA while you are at it” these parties should add to their slogans.

#48 Daisy Mae on 09.10.15 at 7:47 pm

I make like 50k/year and I managed to add the full 10k this year. Padding? Get real. Read Linda at 81.

#81 Linda on 09.10.15 at 9:02 pm

Like Freedom First said, this is a solid post.

Quote for everyone to see-> “those who don’t save will always have a reason not to save & will always blame someone else for their lack of income, because, hey, they HAD to own a house, HAD to have a (new to them) car, HAD to get away because hey, they deserved a break & the flight to destination X was a really good deal, etc. And lets not even get into using the children as an excuse for poor money management. Seriously, take some responsibility for your money management skills or lack thereof.”

-From what I see in early 30’s millennials like myself. That means “difficulty” foregoing the yearly trip to Vegas and Europe (with accompanying facebook photos in bikini), the leased 2016 Audi, designer clothing from Holts, organic food from the health food store that spoils in 3 hours, weekly or daily entertainment including spending hundreds on alcohol and dining out, and lastly -of course- the King West condo (bought at 5% down with parents’ money).

This one takes the cake and really irritates me.

MF

#133 MF on 09.11.15 at 12:01 am

And I want to add, the TFSA is great but obviously investing also carries risk. After maxing out my TFSA with almost all my savings in April, I am about 5 k POORER as it stands right now than I was back then. Maybe it will go up by January? Who knows. Point is this idea that the TFSA just puts more money in the pockets of the rich is so absurd.

MF

#134 Millmech on 09.11.15 at 12:04 am

#78 Glen
I make just under $70,000,max out RRSP&TFSA every year,how you ask?I Pay myself first(30% net every payday)and live on what’s left quite nicely I might add.This rule keeps me living below my means,so when I retire in the next 4-14 years I’ll have no problems getting by.It also helps that I don’t have a large portion of my assets in real estate as I rent.

#135 Drill Baby Drill on 09.11.15 at 12:06 am

#82 Bottoms_Up
25 years old and a masters degree !! What a joke. The only thing a 25 year old has mastered is baiting !!!

#136 Oceanside on 09.11.15 at 12:29 am

#48 Daisy Mae on 09.10.15 at 7:47 pm
#22: “I’m not socialist and I have nothing against the rich…..the first 5k made sense and is admirable, and gives everyone a chance. The second 5k is just padding those that don’t need it.”

*****************

I agree.

Well stated, I agree as well….

#137 Nattie on 09.11.15 at 12:37 am

#82 Bottoms_Up…and a lot of other people:

Two years ago, I was 25, fresh out of a masters degree and earning 38k in Calgary, which is (or perhaps was) known as one of Canada’s most expensive cities. This translated into roughly $2200 per month in take-home pay. Per month, I rented a room for $600 all inclusive, spent $100 on my cell phone, $100 on my bus pass, $150 on groceries, $100 on makeup/clothes/entertainment/ (light makeup, classic cut pieces from the thrift store, and I volunteer/join interest groups/go running or out to tea with friends) and put away $150 towards visiting my family out of town 4 or so times a year. This is $1200, which allowed me to put away $1000 a month. I could have maxed out the ‘new’ TFSA and then some. No, I didn’t have student loans to pay off, since I worked 30 hours/week during the school year, 70 hours/week during the summer, and kept my living expenses to $1000/month (Ottawa has cheaper rent than Calgary, and I didn’t go to the bar or to Mexico on reading break like everyone else.)

The only extreme part of this in my books is the food budget (I’m a light eater and vegetarian; many others may need to add an extra $100 into that pot.) I now net $5000 monthly, and $3800 goes straight into investments. I’m not saying that everyone *should* live like this, just that everyone (every childfree adult, anyway) *can* save, even with a low income.

#138 Leo Trollstoy on 09.11.15 at 12:51 am

Garth is not up to date on the modern reality of what’s been happening to college graduates in so many sectors. Especially with advanced degrees, for which the ‘overqualified’ or “too expensive” labels can be easily applied.

Individuals who have ‘advanced degrees’ that earn $40k are not ‘too expensive’. They’re dumb.

‘Overqualified’ is HR-speak for, ‘we’re going for somebody else because you’re as interesting as a watermelon’.

Just FYI

#139 ozy - no WAY things will get better on 09.11.15 at 1:04 am

no WAY things will get better, short of a system collapse

so, assume the worse, incl. real estate horgy to continue….. damn democracy – how is getting exploited

#140 Noriko Gold on 09.11.15 at 1:05 am

#182 Freedom First on 09.10.15 at 5:34 pm
#133 4 AM Sunrise

Baloney. Japanese men are staying single and childless in record numbers. Japanese Government is in a panic as their population ages. Men have learned from society and are responding. Freedom First.”

LOL, I bet you would fit right in with the Lil Rascals, He-Man Woman-Haters Club…

Re. Japan, the reason for declining marriages is actually woman choosing not to marry and stay at home with the parents…so-called parasite singles, instead of signing up as the wife to a salaryman

#141 Noriko Gold on 09.11.15 at 1:10 am

Garth,

Canada desperately needs its own version of the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party

I mean look at some of the policies….

http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge10/man/parties/OMRL.html

I hereby nominate you as the Canadian leader of this party….would anyone care to second this?

#142 BC Guy on 09.11.15 at 1:47 am

If 1% of wealthiest Canadians own 40% of all assets (cash, bonds, equities, land, real estate) … that’s “capitalism”.

If the NDP want to re-adjust the tax system so that the 1% own only 39% of all assets … that’s “socialism”.

#143 chapter 9 on 09.11.15 at 1:59 am

All we ever hear in this country is tax the rich. For tax year 2010, 25.5 million Canadians filed a tax return out of this ONLY 254,700 are 1%er’s. That’s it!! The way Junior(having the last name Trudeau is like winning the lottery) and Tom(his socialist sidekick) go on they are giving the impression that there are millions of people in this wage category. The two regions where there is the highest concentration, Alberta and Ontario. And in Alberta it happens to be Wood Buffalo where what a coincidence Fort McMurray is located.
Cutting back the TFSA is a slap in the face to all Canadians. What it is really saying is you are too incompetent to look after your self, so big government has to do it for you!!!

#144 Gonkman on 09.11.15 at 2:09 am

Dear Millennials,

Here’s a little timeline for you.

1994
– Graduated College & my Wife to be from University with combined Salary 45K
– Renting an apartment (GASP! THE HORROR!)
– Living within our means to save money.

1999
– Paid off 15K Student Debt
– Saved 15K in RRSP’s (No TFSA’s then)
– Purchased house (Small under 2K SQFT) for 185K with 10% Down using RRSP HBP
– Mortgage Rate (6.5% – Can u imagine?)
– Combined Salary $60K

2002
– First Child
– Need Bigger house – Wait.. Scratch that.. SAME HOUSE because it’s big enough.

2006
– Second Child Born
– Definitely Need a Bigger house – Wait.. Scratch that.. SAME HOUSE because it’s big enough.

Fast Forward… Living within our means. Not keeping up with Jones… Saving for Future.

2015
– 2 Cars in the Driveway Full Paid for. (No BMW’s or stupid SUV’s)
– Mortgage Paid (Still Same house)
– Kids Fully Funded RESP’s
– Lots of $$$ in RRSP’s and TFSA’s (Not maxed but working on it)
– Planned Retirement 10 years or less. Before age 55 BTW.
– Combined Salary $150K (Notice it took almost 20 years to go from 45K to 150K combined??)

Yes you CAN do it too.. You don’t get it all at 25.

Signed,
Gen-Xer who is sick of your whining about no 70K jobs out of school.

#145 hamish42 on 09.11.15 at 2:29 am

Benchmark- I know that most Canadian recoil at benchmarking since it is different in Canada, but here goes.
In the UK, there exists an ISA, very similar to a TFSA, annual limit GBP15K or CAD30K at todays exchange rate. Funny thing is that this is not an issue over here, the left wingers do not bang on about this generosity. Oh and you can put CAD80K a year into a SIPP (RRSP equivalent), this is seen as generous and is being reduced for high income folk (over CAD300K annual income).

#146 Winterpeg on 09.11.15 at 2:29 am

So if the Dippers or Libs get in, and the TFSA limit is dropped, is it prudent to max out what I have left to contribute (about $15000) using my HELOC before the election?
The spread between the interest on the HELOC loan and what I might earn on a Garth style portfolio might be…. 3- 4%(?)
Paying it off at $500/month could be doable for me.
Feedback please?

#147 Lobster Man on 09.11.15 at 2:34 am

#129 Young and a TFSA Lover on 09.10.2015 at 11:39pm

You got it right!
#113 Dee is a renter. If he/she continues to rent, he/she will be deprived of the opportunity of tax-free gains from a principal residence. At the moment, he/she is filling up the TFSA to the max. To the renters, it is only fair to have the higher limit!
Trudeau and Mulcair are anti-renters! Are they not?

#148 Smartalox on 09.11.15 at 2:37 am

@ Young and TFSA #129:

You took the words right out of my mouth; that the TFSA should be the non-real estate equivalent of tax-free capital gains from one’s primary residence.

It would give people a choice to SAVE for tax free gains instead of rolling the dice with massive leverage in the hope of accumulating significant wealth. In effect, if (as many say) paying a mortgage is a ‘form of forced savings’ then the TFSA is the ‘Pay as you go’ plan.

Hell, I’d support abolishing RRSPs and rolling a portion of the annual RRSP contribution limit into a TFSA. I know that the future cost of lost tax revenue on RRSP withdrawals is the reason that this won’t happen.

But the thing that gets me is that Trudeau and Harper have both said that they’d make it easier for Canadians to remove money from their RRSPs to facilitate down payments on homes, pay tuition, experience ‘life events’.

Given Canadians’ tendency to ‘consume what they earn’ or ‘spend what they save’, there won’t BE any tax revenue from swollen RRSPs, so the opportunity cost would be negligible.

And, and all TFSA system would reduce the overhead required to monitor all those different RRSP withdrawals. At least with TFSAs, withdrawals are nobody’s business but your own, and the ‘repayment’ terms are flexible.

I’ve been a life-long Liberal, raised in a family of Liberals, and this is the first election where I am genuinely undecided; the Liberal party is at risk of losing my vote with their bone-headed catering to the Real Estate masses.

The only thing keeping my interest is that the Liberals have been the only party that have demonstrated an ability to ‘think on their feet’ changing tacks on the deficit when they recognized that deficit spending may be what’s required.

Let’s hope that they pull their heads out of their assets, and modify their reasoning on this case as well.

#149 John on 09.11.15 at 2:40 am

Garth says 93% of TFSAs are not fully funded. People read that and assume only the rich are benefiting and that it’s too hard for the middle class to save anything. What a joke! Have you seen the way the average middle class person lives? I’m in my early 30s. All my friends and their significant others have 2000 Sq ft houses,2 Financed vehicles on the driveway, new kitchen renos, $3000 home theatre and surround sound, fancy dinners with drinks every week, 2 hot vacations per year. Whenever I bring up investing I get irritated looks and responses like ” must be nice to have all that extra cash to buy stocks”.
Myself and my girlfriend live in an old 1000 sq apartment in the best neighborhood in town for $1100/mo that we absolutely love. We bought old cars with cash. I really don’t buy anything other than groceries because I don’t need any more stuff and it doesn’t make me any happier. I choose freedom and cashflow. Most people choose debt and excess. It is a choice. I can’t belive promising to reduce the TFSA is a popular campaign pledge. We must have the dumbest population on the planet.

#150 NoREBubble on 09.11.15 at 2:51 am

I believe no RE bubble in Canada because:

1. Canada may have one of the largest land area in the world but only 11% is privately owned (Corps / Individuals). Remaining 89% is owned by the Queen (“The crown”). This means limited supply amist a growing demographic. You can build upwards (condos) but can only build so many houses. Tight areas, prices go up. Explains why it feels so congested every time I visit Canada despite being such a “big country” because you can’t build housing, factories, jobs on most of it. Go to many other countries in the world and you can find blue chip businesses, companies, jobs of its Country more spread out. Because building permits are granted!

2. Canada’s economy is Commodities and Real Estate (which pumps up its Banks). Would the government ever want RE and thus the banks to collapse? USA barely survived it even though banking is a fraction of the diversified American economy. Can Canada let its banks get hurt? Nope, can’t afford to. So only limited amounts of rezoning and land will be privatized by the govt in the future to keep supply under check. Therefore, prices will go up. Wages don’t support this price increase, which is exactly why multi unit stock comes up. Which is why Canadians live congested despite with so much (unavailable) land. Which is why shoeboxe shacks are worth multi million near economic (work) areas because of the opportunity to convert it to a multi residential unit since wages/fundamentals can’t support the MM house.

Therefore, Garth is wrong about Canada’s RE collapse. The party is only getting started. Welcome to Manhattanization of the privately owned 11% km2

#151 jane 24 on 09.11.15 at 4:03 am

The British equivalent of a TFSA is a ISA and these have been around for donkeys. The British govt is pushing savings hard so the 2015/16 limit for ISA contributions is an incredible £15,240 or $30,480 per year in tax free savings. There is actually no need of a British tax payer to pay any income tax on interest or stock capital growth or stock dividends as long as they are sheltered in an ISA.

The best bit is that you can use this huge income tax exemption for either cash or stocks or some of both each year. So if you buy a stock unit trust and put it in
to your plan then all growth in those stocks are tax
free and can be taken at any time, whenever you are in the mood. Govt doesn’t want to know which suits the British tax system where most folks do not file a return but just get tax on income withdrawn at work. End of yearly tax story for most.

The Canadian TFSA limit is pathetic and indeed socialist. Everyone poor together is the base of most socialist thinking.

BBC had a documentary on Chinese savings habits a few days ago. All of them saved 25% to 80% of their incomes every month.

Canada, my home and native land is cooked. Most Canadians have no money.

#152 Glen on 09.11.15 at 5:39 am

Linda, #130

You are making it painfully obvious that you lack insight into the realities of the average Canadian family.

Rent you say? Sure…find me a 2 bedroom rental for less than 800/month (which BTW equals the 10,000K annually I suggested for housing anyway)

In case you did not notice…I chose a Kia (leased at 250/month!…I’m not even sure that’s possible for goodness sakes.).

Millmech #134

Do you have kids living with you? A wife? Or is it just you that your 70,000K is supporting?

#153 Llewelyn on 09.11.15 at 6:14 am

Let me see if I understand the rational behind Tax Free Savings Accounts.

An account where the return on investment is not taxed by government is preferable to an account where the return on investment is taxed. Who could argue?

On the news tonight I learned that a respected accounting firm had devised a scheme allowing their wealthy clients to create a TFSA as big as all outdoors. Move your cash over to the Isle of Man, invest wisely and then request cash as required as a gift. Apparently this TFSA for the selected few has been going on for years in absolute secrecy.

The wealthy people taking full advantage of this creative TFSA are also opposed to increasing the minimum wage and firmly believe that poverty is due to a lack of education, ambition or financial acuity?

Last week I suggested that the high level of indebtedness in North America might indicate that the income available to a significant number of citizens might not be sufficient to cover their basic living costs. The response received was that debt was a result of bad choices, like real estate, and had nothing to do with the lack of income.

I think the suggestion to maintain contributions to the TFSA at $5,500 reflects that a significant number of Canadian citizens are far more concerned about their current economic health than planning for their retirement. It is a question of priorities and many citizens have a long list of where an extra $4,500 in income might be spent before topping up their TFSA. I’m pretty sure a trip to the Isle on Man is not at the top of their list.

#154 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 6:37 am

#84 Glen — “And if this is the case than by all means break down post #71 for me and point out where the accounting went wrong?”

There’s nothing wrong with the accounting. It’s the BUDGETING where you failed. You’ve discovered the truism that a family living beyond its means has no money left over for saving. You did this the last time you visited, with your famous ballet lessons, attempting to crowdsource your family budgeting duties by asking us which budget line should be cut.

Maybe scrap the whole thing and start with a new budget that puts savings first, then spends the rest on life’s necessities. Or discover the serenity of admitting that you’re a spendthrift who’ll never manage to save anything because you’re always living as if your income was $10,000/year higher than it actually is. IT’s OK; there’s plenty of families like that.

P.S. Statscan says median family income was $76,000 in 2010.

#155 pbrasseur on 09.11.15 at 8:03 am

«This is what you’d expect a socialist to say, of course.»

Mulcair and Trudeau are both socialists. Having them run the government of Canada is a scary thougth and doesn’t bode well for the future unless you think the best strategy when you’re in the hole is to keep digging.

Just maybe they have shown a bit too much of their hand with that TFSA announcement. Who knows we might escape it this time…

But anyway Canada is a second rate country run by third rate leaders, that’s not about to change. Plan for it.

#156 START A PETITION on 09.11.15 at 8:35 am

Listen up Mulcair & Trudeau. Not all people that use the new $10,000 limit are old rich folks. Some are young people, who can’t afford real estate that are saving prudently for their retirement.

So let’s be heard NOW:

KEEP THE $10,000 A YEAR LIMIT.

#157 Millmech on 09.11.15 at 8:37 am

Glen
Raised two kids and supported a non working spouse for years on less than that at the time I was actually making about 50k year and still put cash away, you live on what you got it’s called sacrifice for something better.kids and spouse gone so I’m supporting myself now,for a single person I can live on 24k/yr net.

#158 Stickler on 09.11.15 at 8:43 am

@ #119 Mark on 09.10.15 at 10:55 pm

“A 25-year-old with a Masters Degree who remains part of the ‘working poor’ is an idiot. Try for a better fictional example to prove your lame point. That sucked. — Garth”

Normally I wouldn’t come out of my self-imposed exile, but I’ll cheat just this once. Employment prospects for those with advanced degrees not directly applicable to the few hot sectors in the Canadian economy have been awful for so many years now. Most Masters grads are lucky to even find a job, if they can find anything at all, on account of being ‘overqualified’ for the few entry-level jobs that exist. R&D budgets cut to the bone, and ‘structured’ HR heavily discourages the hiring of people who may be ‘overqualified’ but under-experienced.

‘fraid to say this, but it seem Garth is not up to date on the modern reality of what’s been happening to college graduates in so many sectors. Especially with advanced degrees, for which the ‘overqualified’ or “too expensive” labels can be easily applied.

—————————

Add in the fact that someone with a master’s degree (that was earned after a bachelor’s) in the scenarios given has 0 experience. Usually they went for the master’s degree simply because they could not find a job and did not want to start paying back their loans.

This was a hip thing to do in the 90’s (when the job market was terrible too)

Why should these students “deserve” big bucks with 0 experience?

#159 maxx on 09.11.15 at 8:43 am

#16 Asperusual on 09.10.15 at 6:34 pm

“I appreciate the fact that a guy who will probably receive multiple gold plated pensions on the back of tax payers has the overwhelming desire to make it more difficult for us to save for our retirements. Insular and arrogant, go remortgage your house and get your hands out of my pocket!”

Absolutely agree…….the dippers have now irretrievably lost our votes. As for the libs, that platform would actively hurt boomers and all of those wishing to avoid being excessively dependent on social programs in retirement – or, god forbid, have some semblance of a happy and fulfilled retirement.

I have never voted con, but this TFSA rollback changes everything.

Libs and dippers are determined to keep fiscally responsible savers from building wealth and, with near ZIRP, the TFSA has been a boon to help build a secure retirement, most especially for the enormous cohort of boomers at or near that point in life.

Red and Orange economic policy seems crafted to maintain the long-standing Canadian tradition of spreading and maintaining a status quo of dissatisfaction for all. That will please the pathetic whiners who wail that TFSAs are “only for the rich”.

Most everyone gets to remain miserable.

#160 Nora Lenderby on 09.11.15 at 9:05 am

#153 Llewelyn on 09.11.15 at 6:14 am
…a TFSA as big as all outdoors. Move your cash over to the Isle of Man, invest wisely and then request cash as required as a gift…
The wealthy people … are also opposed to increasing the minimum wage and firmly believe that poverty is due to a lack of education, ambition or financial acuity?

Sounds like some people in KPMG should be going to jail and some clients owe serious taxes.

Stuff like this is tricky, could trigger an outraged “Eat the Rich” reaction. (Inevitably after that, we’ll eat everyone else).

Be prudent, rich people. Remember how frightened you were during the GFC?

#161 Q2 Duplex Drive on 09.11.15 at 9:10 am

Garth –

So Mulcair is a socialist and Trudeau is an idiot – surprise, surprise! They’re both the same thing, in my opinion. Unfortunately, most Canadians aren’t much brighter. Better practice saying ‘comrade’ while the coming Trudeau/Mulcair coalition runs the country into the ground.

#162 Adam on 09.11.15 at 9:13 am

Garth made a comment about maxing out a child’s RESP. With Harpers shifted around child cheques, $3,000 a year into your child’s RESP is now as simple as about $500 (or less) plus the tax you have to pay.

$160 a month (children under 6) x 12 = $1920 – put this directly in the RESP. The lower income spouse will have to pay tax on this as Harper killed the child tax credit to pay for pre-tax cheques each month instead.

In NS, I have a family income of about $90k and get $30 a month from the provincial government – $360.

That’s $2280 a year in cheques from the government. Put in 220 (that’s less than $20 a month) for a total of $2500 and the feds will give you an additional 20% ($500) which is $3000 a year for their RESP.

That’s crazy math – I contribute $20 a month to my child’s RESP and I end up with $3000 every year. How can you afford not to do this?

#163 Axehead on 09.11.15 at 9:19 am

The TFSA is needed. I work for myself and don’t have a corporate pension, I need to invest wisely in order to retire comfortably, the TFSA (more is better) allows me to grow my retirement funds tax free and use it tax free (note the word FREE), and it aligns with my belief that ‘the least government is best government’.

As for the Federal parties this year?

Conservative: pro TFSA but also pro pre-2008 American style consumerism that leads to financial disaster but Canadian style – slow and painful.

Liberals: Do anything and promise anything to allow anything; Nanny state mentality with one hand in your pocket to pay for it all.

NDP: Robin Hood party – punish the rich and successful and reward the proletariat for mediocracy; both hands in both pockets but don’t worry … trust your socialist government to spend your money wisely and fairly.

Greens: Totally confused; think that provincial responsibilities (health care and education) are federal.

Rhino: refreshing joke

Republican: where the hell are the Republicans?

#164 Hot Albertan Money on 09.11.15 at 9:54 am

@ #76 Votetogether on 09.10.15 at 8:55 pm

bribing us with our own $$

So none of the other party leaders have made any spending promises? Just in case you don’t know, any spending promise is “bribing us with our own $$” so take the blinders off will ya?

#165 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 9:58 am

#153 Llewelyn — “Last week I suggested that the high level of indebtedness in North America might indicate that the income available to a significant number of citizens might not be sufficient to cover their basic living costs.”

But where is all that debt concentrated? In high income households. Look at chart 2 on page 25 of this paper:
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dp09-7.pdf

Yes, the largest increase in household debt-to-income between 1999 and 2005 was in the second lowest income quintile, but it still carries less debt to income than the middle and second highest quintiles, whose ratios also rose in the period. To put numbers on the quintiles, see Statscan table 202-0703, here:
http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=2020703&pattern=&csid=

You need to check some boxes under add/remove data to see the per-quintile average household income. Total income by quintile in 2011 was 15,600 / 36,100 / 57,700 / 89,100 / 176,300.

An average household in the 4th quintile pulls down $89,100, and at 105% DTI, owes $93,555.
By Quintile: income / debt:income / debt / % of all debt
Top $176,300 x 83% = $146,329 or 41%
4th $89,100 x 105% = $93,555 or 26%
3rd $57,700 x 110% = $63,470 or 18%
2nd $36,100 x 98% = $35,378 or 10%
Bottom $15,600 x 106% = $16,536 or 5%

The two richest quintiles hold 67% of all household debt, and the top 60% holds 86%. The bottom 40% carry only 15% of the total debt. Overall, high debt/income numbers are not the result of lower middle class households who can barely hang on — it’s higher income households wot done the borrowin’.

#166 Yuus bin Haad on 09.11.15 at 9:58 am

I’m voting Green – they’re giving everyone an island in Georgian Bay (at least, I think I heard Elizabeth say something like that).

#167 jess on 09.11.15 at 10:01 am

Tuesday, September 8, 2015
Indictment Charges 3 Former Nomura RMBS Traders with Multiple Fraud and Conspiracy Offenses

http://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/indictment-charges-3-former-nomura-rmbs-traders-multiple-fraud-and-conspiracy-offenses

“This indictment alleges that, for several years,…

…”According to the indictment, the three co-conspirators trained their subordinates to lie to customers, provided them with the language to use in deceiving customers, and encouraged them to engage in the practice. In one instance, one of the defendants’ subordinate traders told a salesperson that he “lied” about the price of bond and “marked up 2 pts,” to which the salesperson responded “haha sick . . . well played.”

#168 David McDonald on 09.11.15 at 10:02 am

I do believe the TFSA is a wonderful tool for retirement savings but frankly an enhanced CPP would keep more seniors out of poverty. It’s not even desirable for most working people to learn how to invest their money properly. Society would be better off if working people spent their time learning to be better electricians, programmers, teachers ect.

#169 The Other Chris on 09.11.15 at 10:06 am

Something is wrong in this country where a guy wearing a $20,000 watch (Trudeau) to his campaign appearances thinks a $4,500 increase to the TFSA limit is “for the wealthy”.

I honestly think that the majority of Canadians would prefer that no one have any vehicle (RRSP or TFSA or anything else) to save with tax-free compounding. Except defined benefit pensions of course; those are sacred. It’s a perverse vision where every dollar has to be taxable, all the time.

#170 Small Business on 09.11.15 at 10:13 am

I’m a new small business owner. After I pay the expenses and employees, I pay myself if the month has been profitable. My Wife and I knew that starting a small business would be a sacrifice and we live very frugally. The one area that we choose not to skimp (if we can) on is some retirement savings.

As a new small business owner, it’s pretty near impossible for me to get a mortgage even if I wanted one. I don’t pay myself employmet income, so my available RRSP contributions are nil or small. So, I have no pension.

When the $10,000 TFSA limit was announced, I was excited that my Family now would have a way to save for our retirement.

I listened to Muclair and Trudeau’s interviews and they both want to help small businesses. What a joke. If they really wanted to help small businesses, they could try to help out the owner’s of small businesses struggling to make them work. It’s a huge sacrifice starting one.

Keeping the $10,000 limit would be a good start.

#171 Hot Albertan Money on 09.11.15 at 10:13 am

@ #85 Mark in Guelph on 09.10.15 at 9:23 pm

I think there are a great many highly educated, highly skilled Canadians who are working poor, with very little concern from Garth’s generation.

Then they suck at making choices. Before enrolling and spending X thousands of dollars getting “highly” educated, they could have done some analysis to see what their post-school options would be. If someone has a Masters and only makes $40k/year, then they are a pretty dumb person and deserve to be in a bad spot. A Masters does not equal being God’s gift to the world.

And before someone tries to shoft the blame away from the young adult and onto someone else, remember…teens/young adults today are trying to grow up too quickly and tune out any advice given to them by older people. So if they ignore advice, then tough sh!t

#172 Hyacinthe on 09.11.15 at 10:19 am

“In other words, if you’re looking for fresh thinking in this campaign,” have a look a the Green Party’s platform.

I did. A joke. Liz is seriously lacking. — Garth

#173 Uke on 09.11.15 at 10:27 am

It ain’t all Harper, cause…. from day one and it is still the problem, 85% of corporations in Canada are foreign. That means that from the first day money/profits are constantly leaving the country to foreign lands and new immigrants are needed to keep the money supply in balance. No matter what gov is in power this program will never change. If anything over the last 40 years the country has chased away manufacturing in favour of “clean jobs” great for the environmentalists terrible for the economy. Look at logging and what killed that industry….. don’t use our trees to build furniture in Canada, lease the land to American co. to cultivate the trees, move the lumber to the US and then we can buy back the furniture made from our own trees. Nice and clean…but little money stays here from the leases while the profits from our trees…. but as the Americans ship the finished product not only here but worldwide…..
This also feed the socialists here. It allowed the the gov to be more in control over the citizens lives. The gov created a powerful welfare state that made so many dependent on them and just allowed a fraction of control of business to their buddies. Notice how American has buckets and bucket full of billion dollar corporations? Here they restrict all for a select few becoming Microsofts?
Example..The McCains and the Irvings controlled the east coast. Subsequently McCain’s gave up the ghost and sold to Irving Montreal/Quebec has 5 families that run the show and the west was always Helter Skelter till the tar sands were fully explored. The west had there existing power companies and all were American. The wood guys, Wyckinhouser and Boise Cascade and the American oil companies . The Oil companies just got richer. The only Canadian Co. with clout is a creation of the corrupt Liberals under Trudeau, they formed Petro Can so they could fatten their pockets with the takeover of 3 foreign oil companies in the 70’s. Doubled gas cost from .30 to .60 cents over night with the story being that once the takeovers were complete each living Canadian at that day the new company was formed we were all to get equal shares in the stock. Nobody saw a share, the company ran on the public’s tax money until the tar sands became profitable and then the thieving liberals again under Cretchian sold the company and the liberals kept the money to keep the Canadian social programs alive….. Gov here as always strives for more control over the people and they found away to never chase the tax money, just let a few control all the big money business and all they had to do was ask them for it. As long as the oil or the wood companies gave them what they FELT was the right amount, all but the populous was happy.
That is how Canada has evolved, a perfect well oiled and profitable operating socialist/commi welfare state. with money!

#174 Craig on 09.11.15 at 10:29 am

Considering the bulk of RE is concentrated in Van and Tor, one would expect that any dip in prices will be supported with more people jumping in. In addition to the new rules you mentioned to support RE, I can hardly see any price erosion in the next decade or so. Even if Canada were to follow US with rate increase.

#175 Mister Obvious on 09.11.15 at 10:35 am

#153 Llewelyn

Neither my TFSA, nor that of anyone I know has the slightest thing to do with ‘The Isle Of Man’. They are all administered through Canadian financial institutions with specific rules that can be researched and understood by anyone and operate under the full scrutiny of the Canada Revenue Agency.

You have presented some kind of weird hybrid ‘non-sequitur, straw man’ argument here having to do with someone’s attempt at offshore tax evasion that you have arbitrarily chosen to refer to as a TFSA.

I don’t know what else to call this but a pointless attempt to obfuscate the real issue. It’s not working. Get back on track.

#176 saskatoon on 09.11.15 at 10:37 am

#48 Daisy Mae
#136 Oceanside

ironically, you are both still endorsing state initiated violence, but are apparently not socialist.

#120 Chris

simple answer: most canadians are crazy lazy dumb government bootlickers.

#142 BC Guy

not even close: one involves freedom–the other involves the initiation of force via state taxation.

#40 Nora Lenderby

snarking isnt going to help your latent trauma.

it is merely a symptom.

get a professional and work through the issues.

#177 IHCTD9 on 09.11.15 at 10:38 am

#115 Estrella on 09.10.15 at 10:41 pm
So, people who can’t afford to max out TFSA’s do not want people who can to max theirs out. We are talking about AFTER TAX dollars here folks.
____________________________________________

But that’s still not good enough my dear Estrella. All the angry Millennial Dippers and Socialist dogs are spitting mad that these tax paid dollars can then go on to potentially earn a few points without being taxed again…

I love the perspective of these dippers:

“Get rid of the TFSA, there’s no way I myself will ever be able to put any money in there”

“The revenue lost to tax free gains within a TFSA would otherwise benefit all Canadians if given to the Government”

“TFSA’s only benefit the rich, they already have enough so don’t give them any more.” (LOL!)

You Dips and Lunatic Lefties have so bloody much to learn I can’t believe it.

Keep it up though, the rich are crapping their pants in fear, dreading the 5K cut in their most prized money making machine. They’re all, and I mean ALL voting 3 times each for Harper, as they know that’s the only way they’ll ever get to stay rich.

Meanwhile the poor are waiting with bated breath to be lifted out of poverty via the huge windfall of government tax revenue levied on gains from an additional 5K pouring in from a slight fraction of the population…

#178 JimH on 09.11.15 at 10:40 am

#153 Llewelyn
“I think the suggestion to maintain contributions to the TFSA at $5,500 reflects that a significant number of Canadian citizens are far more concerned about their current economic health than planning for their retirement. It is a question of priorities and many citizens have a long list of where an extra $4,500 in income might be spent before topping up their TFSA.”
==================================
Of course, you’re quite right; “it’s a matter of priorities”!

#154 Ralph Cramdown correctly points out 2 important issues in this discussion:
1. as per StatsCan, the median family (couple) income in Canada is $76,500 (note, ‘median’: NOT average!)
2. the issue is one of bugeting rather than of incomes or accounting.

It seems perfectly clear that the majority of families would much rather joyfully overspend than give any thought to retirement.

It has become common in the Canadian Zeitgeist that problems should always be solved my government or at least someone else, and are therefore not at all a matter of personal responsibility.

I would be most curious as to just how many families in Canada have ever given a thought to creating a family budget??? Would they even know where to start???

#179 LTL_FTC on 09.11.15 at 10:55 am

Quandry/Quandary?

#180 pwn3d on 09.11.15 at 10:57 am

What you idiots on the left can never seem to do is think ahead. The TFSA is cumulative, you don’t have to use it all at once. Think of this likely and common scenario. Old people with not much savings or income but a paid off house. If they could sell the house and invest in a registered account tax free they would be much more inclined to do so. In this case RRSP is not an option.

The TFSA is the most useful tool for seniors at any wealth bracket. Think about it.

#181 JimH on 09.11.15 at 10:57 am

#153 Llewelyn

Just as an afterthought, you say that “a significant number of Canadian citizens are far more concerned about their current economic health than planning for their retirement.”

The two issues are not at all mutually exclusive.

#182 Nomad on 09.11.15 at 10:59 am

BNN: Canada’s household debt ratio hits record high

http://www.bnn.ca/Video/player.aspx?vid=702054

That’s just average debt.
There’s a lot of people that owe more than $1.65 for each $1.

#183 cramar on 09.11.15 at 10:59 am

#137 Nattie on 09.11.15 at 12:37 am

#144 Gonkman on 09.11.15 at 2:09 am

#149 John on 09.11.15 at 2:40 am

———-

I’m applauding you! It is refreshing to see an alternative, Group 2, those who have found a way to do just fine financially within the current system. Contrast this to Group 1 who continually post that today is different. You cannot afford a house today, you cannot get decent jobs today even with a university eduction, TFSA are for the rich because average people like us cannot do it, Boomers won the lottery with their house, you cannot save today, etc.

The difference between Group 1 & 2 is striking. Group 1 says the system sucks (true), and you cannot do anything about it. Group 2 learns to make choices within the sucky system to ensure that their goals of accumulating wealth slowly over time get met. They live within their means, which means frugally sometimes. They are savers, not spenders. They do so because heading for financial security is more important to them than living like everyone else.

Group 1 blames the system and feels powerless. That is the way reality is and we cannot do anything about it. They are victims. Group 2 do not have a victim mentality and make choices to take their own lives in a desired direction.

Everyone is the product of the choices they make in their lives.

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.”
― Viktor E. Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning

#184 Canadian on 09.11.15 at 11:13 am

#137 Nattie on 09.11.15 at 12:37 am

Garth I think I’m in love. Looking for a nice Southern Alberta farm boy dearest? :)

#185 pbrasseur on 09.11.15 at 11:33 am

Canada in 2-3 years under socialists Justin and Tom:

10% + unemployment.
60-65 CAD
Exploding deficits (provinces banckrupt and severely rationning services)
etc…

The good life…

#186 Hard Times on 09.11.15 at 11:48 am

” The current Liberal campaign is based on taxing the wealthy more so the middle class pays less, which sounds fair but is statistically impossible. ”

Bashing the ‘middle class’ is an attack on unions….who are the only existing ‘middle class ‘ in the country. The union civil service is the elite one percent in Canada by far…making double and more the wages and raking in pensions and perks all other Canadians can only dream of…if they could go on strike and put a gun to the heads of their employers…which of course they can’t.

Trudeau and Mulcair are beholden to the unions…..who have ‘Hate Harper’ as their common thread. When the unions supported Wynne for a Liberal Ontario…they soon came back for their pound of flesh….lets not give them the keys to the nations vault….that would only exacerbate the divide between rich elite unions and poor Canadians.

#187 Hardworking Millennial on 09.11.15 at 11:53 am

I can see there alot of people on this blog that are not in a financial position to max the current TFSA limit of $10,000. These people seem to believe that not being able to contribute to the maximum allowed limit is somehow unfair to them. Question to these people: How will lowering the limit from $10k to $5k benefit you directly?

#188 J man on 09.11.15 at 12:02 pm

I think some of the extreme savers are missing the big picture. Don’t get me wrong I am a frugal person and save as much as I can. That said our current financial system is not based on us savers. If everyone took Garths advice and went into frugal mode what do you think would happen to businesses and jobs? What do you think would happen to stock prices that are based on profits driven by SPENDING not SAVING? What do you think would happened to job prospects when business drops big time? YOU may all of a sudden find yourself out of work…

Any spending cuts by the masses is likely to be met with equal cuts to incomes. We don’t live in personal bubbles.

On the topic of TFSA’s. Gov’t obligations don’t go down because of TFSA’s. So any taxes lost to TFSA’s has to be made up elsewhere. If the cold hard reality is that one group of citizens is clearly in a better position to take advantage of this benefit then it is essentially a tax shift to the less fortunate (barring an offsetting wealth tax elsewhere). There are always a few exceptions like some extreme savers but big policy decisions shouldn’t be made based on the exceptions.

And to another point. Taxing investment income is NOT double taxing. If I save I should be entitled to my savings being there plus compensation to adjust for inflation and maybe a risk premium in the investing (say 5%). Anything over and above that is income and not just income but unearned income. No value added work was done to obtain that income…or should I say someone else worked for that income. In reality investment income over and above the original savings amount plus the few considerations should be taxed at double the rate of money earned through actual work. All we are doing is creating a society whereby we are encouraging people to sit on their derriere and reap profits on the backs of others. Pilfering the wealth they have created. And as shown in the this comments section creating some big ego’s to boot. How many people here have made disparaging comments about the very people who are EARNING the money that’s padding their unearned income. Something wrong there…

#189 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 12:08 pm

#170 Small Business — “When the $10,000 TFSA limit was announced, I was excited that my Family now would have a way to save for our retirement.”

Did you have self-control problems such that, unless money was in a registered account and a pain in the ass to withdraw, you’d spend it all?

My family was saving for retirement in non registered accounts before the TFSA was created. Anything that produces taxable income or dividends is in the name of the lower earning spouse. Ideal stocks to hold are those that retain nearly all their earnings and grow (Berkshire Hathaway and similar) — tax free compounding now and when you need the cash, capital gains are taxed at 50% of your marginal rate.

Sure, the totally tax free gains of the TFSA are nice, but they’re not the reason I’ve been saving.

#190 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.15 at 12:09 pm

#178 JimH on 09.11.15 at 10:40 am
———————————————-
Just curious, does your definition of ‘joyful overspending’ include things such as:
1) hydro
2) a realistic budget for healthy food
3) gas to get to work
4) auto insurance
5) clothes. shoes. winter boots, hats, mitts
6) diapers. car seats.

#191 Millmech on 09.11.15 at 12:10 pm

#183 Cramar
That book should be required reading in our school system,would be good to have The Millionaire Teacher as required reading also.
Cheers

#192 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.15 at 12:11 pm

#169 The Other Chris on 09.11.15 at 10:06 am
————————————————
The TFSA increase IS for the wealthy. It is a great way for them to shield an extra $45,000 per decade…plus if they can contribute to a spouse and 2 children, $180,000 per decade.

A nice little treat for the rich (not that they need it, as shielding $180,000 per decade from taxes likely doesn’t hurt their bottom line).

The TFSA limits are the same for all of us, unlike RRSP contribution limits. This is an egalitarian and fair sheltering from additional tax of the money people make – and on which those richer than you have already paid far more tax. You have no point to make, other than to demonstrate your envy. — Garth

#193 miketheengineer on 09.11.15 at 12:16 pm

Garth et al:

I have said this before and I will say it again.

There will be no sustained recovery until the “velocity of money” increases. Money must be in the hands of the people who spend. The rich got much richer lately and the poor much poorer in this country….hence the situation gets a interesting.

My solution to this mess…reduce the price of Gasoline to $0.70 cents per litre…as to where it should be….and the rest will take care of itself. See that $20 a week in the hands of that single mom trying to make ends meet will make a huge difference…since she will spend it on kids clothes, food, etc. The economy will self stimulate…so to speak.

Problemo solved…but the catch is, the gas price must “stay” at $0.70 cents per litre….for at least 24 months.

O.k. Gartho…make it happen dude….surely some of the MP and MPP’s and the other people in this country who make things happen, can make it happen.

Money, cold hard cash, needs to get to the people….for the velocity to increase. Raising taxes won’t do it.

Have a great day Garth…you rock “dude”

#194 Capt. Obvious on 09.11.15 at 12:20 pm

#174 Craig

If rates head up, you’re making an assumption people have excess income to make up for the increased borrowing cost and keep prices elevated. I doubt that is the case. I think mostly what is propping up prices is Betty and John have X amount to devote to housing, and at current interest rates that equals Y mortgage. When interest rates rise Z will be less than Y, and housing prices will behave accordingly. X isn’t changing in the short run.

#195 Lorne on 09.11.15 at 12:26 pm

72 Hyacinthe on 09.11.15 at 10:19 am
“In other words, if you’re looking for fresh thinking in this campaign,” have a look a the Green Party’s platform.

I did. A joke. Liz is seriously lacking. — Garth
…..
Whoa, Garth! Having seen all the party leaders speak during this campaign (oh wait, I wanted to get in to see Harper, but did not have an “invitation”!),and, although I will not be voting Green, I can honestly say Elizabeth May as leader of any of the other 3 parties, would make this election a runaway. She is a very intelligent person who has a plethora of facts and history at her fingertips and thinks well on her feet. Too bad her party has no chance….but, perhaps she can be part of a coalition.
What would be really entertaining, would be a debate between Garth & Elizabeth….that would be an entertainment spectacle I would pay to see!

Look at the party platform. Look at the depth of its talent pool. — Garth

#196 onpar on 09.11.15 at 12:32 pm

Some of you may have heard about something called the “Inequality of Wealth.” It’s real. It’s not made up. And it is a huge problem. The way around his, other than legislating a “maximum wage,” is to tax the living hell out of the obscenely rich. By the way, this is NOT a radical idea. Go look at the tax rates of the wealthy elite from the mid-80s back. I agree with most of what Garth says, but he is dead wrong about tax rates. The top tier should be taxed to the point of an aneurism as far as I’m concerned. Enough is enough. If something isn’t done soon, you can expect some form of societal collapse, if not a full out revolution.
We’re coming for you, rich people – so buy some ammo along with your caviar.

You do pull yourself up by dragging others down. Wealthy people are usually that way for a reason. — Garth

#197 JSS on 09.11.15 at 12:32 pm

#144 Gonkman on 09.11.15 at 2:09 am

Excellent. Impressed.

#198 cramar on 09.11.15 at 12:37 pm

#171 Hot Albertan Money on 09.11.15 at 10:13 am
@ #85 Mark in Guelph on 09.10.15 at 9:23 pm

I think there are a great many highly educated, highly skilled Canadians who are working poor, with very little concern from Garth’s generation.

Then they suck at making choices. Before enrolling and spending X thousands of dollars getting “highly” educated, they could have done some analysis to see what their post-school options would be. If someone has a Masters and only makes $40k/year, then they are a pretty dumb person and deserve to be in a bad spot. A Masters does not equal being God’s gift to the world.

——————-

Right on!

A few months back, I was talking to a Millennial who was passionately telling me that there are no jobs for U. grads today and everyone is deceived by the system who tells young people to get an education to get a good job. He was up to his eyeballs in student debt and no job. I asked what was his education speciality (knowing I would get the obvious answer to his problem). He said Journalism. Bingo! I then asked, if he did any assessment on the career prospects for Journalism before he entered? He looked at me with a look of shocked incredulity and said “NO!” Bingo!

I said, “Want a better life, then learn to make better choices.”

Contrast this to my son who was a college grad and had an average salary. He spend years of research, planning, preparation, and saving for a change to a more lucrative career. He moonlighted as a bartender, while getting a U degree by correspondence. He then quit his job went back to school for an MBA, graduated on the Dean’s Honour Roll, and got hired by a major U.S. consulting firm. They even gave him a bonus for signing on, plus moving expenses. I calculated with the exchange rate at the time, that first year he got the equivalent of around $150k Cdn to start. That was for a junior position. He since has risen to the rank of a principal partner.

It’s all in the choices.

#199 Slim on 09.11.15 at 12:41 pm

Harper should’ve kept quiet about raising the TFSA limit until after the election. Just like the wise old hen, who doesn’t cackle until the egg’s laid.

#200 Paul on 09.11.15 at 12:49 pm

#189 Slim on 09.11.15 at 12:41 pm

Harper should’ve kept quiet about raising the TFSA limit until after the election. Just like the wise old hen, who doesn’t cackle until the egg’s laid
————————————————————-I think Canadians are about to lay an Ostrich Egg!!!!

#201 DisgustMadeMePost on 09.11.15 at 12:52 pm

#188 Slim on 09.11.15 at 12:41 pm
Harper should’ve kept quiet about raising the TFSA limit until after the election. Just like the wise old hen, who doesn’t cackle until the egg’s laid.

………..

He was trying to get re elected….

Too bad the Cons don’t have someone else at the helm.

Career politician? The thought of 15(!) years IN A ROW of the same party leader does not sit well with me.

#202 DisgustMadeMePost on 09.11.15 at 12:54 pm

Keep the TFSA limit

Lose bill C 51

Where’s my choice?

#203 Chancho on 09.11.15 at 12:55 pm

I don’t understand why people would want to vote for a reduced tfsa. Are people seriously that blind? This is one of the only good things we have where we aren’t taxed to death! This is the biggest issue to me so the NDP and Liberals will not be getting my vote Oct 19. I would like to have some kind of ” Financial Freedom” in the future.

#204 Paul on 09.11.15 at 12:56 pm

#185 pbrasseur on 09.11.15 at 11:33 am

Canada in 2-3 years under socialists Justin and Tom:

10% + unemployment.
60-65 CAD
Exploding deficits (provinces banckrupt and severely rationning services)
etc…

The good life…—-
———————————————————-
AND YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO FINE ONE PERSON THAT VOTED FOR THEM

#205 Gonkman on 09.11.15 at 12:57 pm

@ #189 Slim

Wouldn’t matter… he’s probably on the way out with all the ABC going around.

At least we got the extra $4500 this year.

I watched the Muclair interview. He said he would lower it back to $5000.

Does he even know it’s $5500 now (Pre-Increase)?

Trudeau said after the budget announcement that he would lower the “TSFA” back to $5000. Was he even aware that its was $5500?

I guess the $500 difference doesn’t matter when you are part of the 1% earners.

Wait… I thought only the 1%ers used the TFSA?? They should know it’s $5500 and not $5000. I mean $500 is HUGE amount to someone making over $165K a year.

I hope the $10K stands but it probably won’t unless maybe the Cons squeak by with a Minority and the Dippers/Liberals “forget” about the TFSA.

All I know is our Retirement Fund will be $150K+ Less when we retire if they lower it back.

That’s why I have to vote with my Wallet.

When Someone threatens to take away 150K from my retirement fund. You just lost my vote.

#206 Steve French on 09.11.15 at 1:02 pm

“Wealthy people are usually that way for a reason.”

– Sir Garth Turner

bwwwahahahahaah…

Ya coz they’re stepping on your throats thats why they’re wealthy!

Garth, pulzeese…

We blog dogs are not your little naive Canadiana children.

…. Really? … Are you serious?

You bet. How’s your throat? — Garth

#207 4 AM Sunrise on 09.11.15 at 1:04 pm

#171 Hot Albertan Money on 09.11.15 at 10:13 am

And before someone tries to shoft the blame away from the young adult and onto someone else, remember…teens/young adults today are trying to grow up too quickly and tune out any advice given to them by older people. So if they ignore advice, then tough sh!t

Actually, those Master’s degrees are sometimes the result of young adults listening to their head-in-sand parents who won’t acknowledge today’s shifting paradigms in work and education and so give out advice like, “gee, maybe you should go back to school and get another degree?”

#208 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 1:09 pm

#169 The Other Chris — “I honestly think that the majority of Canadians would prefer that no one have any vehicle (RRSP or TFSA or anything else) to save with tax-free compounding. Except defined benefit pensions of course; those are sacred. It’s a perverse vision where every dollar has to be taxable, all the time.”

I have to say: That sounds wonderful.

Imagine if all income was taxed, and all at the same rate (lower than today’s, obvs). Tax season would be SO much simpler, we wouldn’t need to keep our savings in seven different accounts with different taxation rules. An army of tax preparers, lawyers, accountants, auditors, lobbyists and planners representing no small fraction of GDP could go on to more productive pursuits. Canadians wouldn’t constantly be worrying that they are paying more than their fair share, that their neighbours are paying less, and that some wealthy people somewhere are gaming the system, paying almost nothing because of a tricky tax loophole. They wouldn’t hang on every word of election platform announcements, trying to determine whether tax policy x would be better or worse than tax policy y for their family next year and in the long run, nor would they have to guess at their tax rates decades hence, and how long they’ll live, in order to channel savings or withdrawals today to minimize future tax.

Wouldn’t that be something?

#209 Apocalypse2015 on 09.11.15 at 1:10 pm

Canada’s weak economy and petro could slide downhill in an awful hurry if this forecast comes to pass:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-11/-20-oil-possible-for-goldman-as-forecasts-cut-on-growing-glut

$20 oil will have an incredible effect on Alberta real estate.

The rest of our economy? GLTA.

#210 JimH on 09.11.15 at 1:11 pm

#188 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.15 at 12:09 pm
re: #178 JimH on 09.11.15 at 10:40 am
“Just curious, does your definition of ‘joyful overspending’ include things such as:
1) hydro
2) a realistic budget for healthy food
3) gas to get to work
4) auto insurance
5) clothes. shoes. winter boots, hats, mitts
6) diapers. car seats.”
================================
Of course not, Bottoms_Up! Your question is fatuous.

My point is very simple. Canadians enjoy one of the highest median family incomes in the world, yet have an abysmally low savings rate.

The reason is not, as you seem to be suggesting, outrageous prices for necessities; The real reason is choices, pure and simple. Discretionary spending.

If half the family incomes in Canada are above $76,500 per year, your 6 examples above cannot possibly account for their inability to save a dime! Get real!

#211 Pre-Retiree on 09.11.15 at 1:21 pm

Changing subject…
Can we discuss CPP next?
If one takes it at age 60 instead of waiting at 65, there is a 36% reduction according to the Gvt of Canada website. That is a fairly recent change, I believe.
Garth, does your advice remain the same then? That everybody, no exception, should apply for CPP at 60? You said you would discuss this in a future blog – looking forward to it.

#212 Admirer on 09.11.15 at 1:22 pm

Garth said: “The TFSA limits are the same for all of us, unlike RRSP contribution limits.”
—————-

I have never agreed more with you.

Hallelujah.

#213 IHCTD9 on 09.11.15 at 1:24 pm

#183 cramar on 09.11.15 at 10:59 am

…Contrast this to Group 1 who continually post that today is different. You cannot afford a house today, you cannot get decent jobs today even with a university education,…
____________________________________________

Although I generally don’t pull any punches when it comes to crapping on typical Millennial attitudes, I do try to be realistic about their situation, so long as I can verify through direct experience that which is actually real.

Real: Major Urban centers are full of new immigrants. They are filling jobs in (at least) manufacturing in Toronto and being paid peanuts. My job has me in and out of many multinational household name Corporations in Toronto, and it is the same thing everywhere I go: South Asians in admin/lower management, East Asians in Engineering. Tenured Canadians being let go with their positions being filled with one or two new Canadians. 20 somethings from India here on their own, 30 something single mothers from Russia, Chinese guys by the dozen. If it wasn’t for Linkedin, I wouldn’t know any front liners in the industry for more than a couple years.

The M.O. by these Corps. here is cheap is good. These new Canadians all have degrees, work like slaves, and don’t complain. Higher education, at least in Toronto’s manufacturing plants where management, engineering, and administration is concerned essentially gets you par. The job goes to the lowest bidder on the employee front just as soon as it does to a vendor. Don’t think for a minute that your Masters Degree entitles you to much over minimum wage.

Now, I have direct irrefutable information on this situation. I deal with these folks and their superiors every day. I know their background, where they came from, how long they’ve been here, and how much they make per hour. I have had very frank discussions with senior managers regarding this as it was happening. I’ve heard it straight from the ownership on two occasions. Let me say that they are delighted with the situation. But above all, most of my info comes from these new immigrants themselves – right from the horses mouth so to speak.

I am a gen X’er, and I can say that I did not have to compete with a Chinese/Indian guy with a Masters Degree willing to work for 20K below the going rate when I entered the job market. This is a problem that manifested itself during the Millennials’ entrance into the job market.

This is also a permanent change IMHO. So, there are certain Millennials that have at least 1 valid beef, and I back them up here. Too bad their left leaning will be the last few nails in their collective coffins.

#214 SeeB on 09.11.15 at 1:32 pm

Hey folks! What items of the one’s Garth usually preaches are best held in a TFSA, RRSP, and Non-Registered accounts? Been reading back issues of this blog for a while and have not yet found a post that discusses this specifically. Links, etc. are also welcome. Please and thank you!

#215 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 1:33 pm

#190 Bottoms_Up — “Just curious, does your definition of ‘joyful overspending’ include things such as […]”

YES, for some people with some budgets.

#216 4 AM Sunrise on 09.11.15 at 1:33 pm

#189 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 12:08 pm

My family was saving for retirement in non registered accounts before the TFSA was created. Anything that produces taxable income or dividends is in the name of the lower earning spouse.

According to the CRA book, aren’t taxes supposed to be attributed to the spouse who made the initial investment, or in direct proportion with the amounts contributed by each spouse?

Anybody know of any households who were forced by the CRA to cough up their numbers? Can you imagine the CRA auditing a traditional one-income couple with a joint account and they’re like, “well, gee, she quit her job to stay at home with the kids, so I’m the sole earner, but then there was her inheritance when her folks passed away, and then we moved our accounts around, but we’re married, so it’s all team money and either one of us can report the dividend income, right? Umm…proportions?”

#217 Nemesis on 09.11.15 at 1:35 pm

“Wealthy people are usually that way for a reason.” — HonGarth

#NoKidding…

(UK Telegraph) – Japanese man born to wealthy parents is accidentally switched at birth and endures life of poverty

…Japanese man switched at birth and grew up in poverty, only to discover the infant he had traded places with had grown up in luxury…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10481091/Japanese-man-born-to-wealthy-parents-is-accidentally-switched-at-birth-and-endures-life-of-poverty.html

#218 Admirer on 09.11.15 at 1:43 pm

Garth, how do you foresee a minority government formed by either the NDP or the Libs affecting the $10,000 limit? Will it still be lowered?

#219 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 1:46 pm

#216 4 AM Sunrise — “According to the CRA book, aren’t taxes supposed to be attributed to the spouse who made the initial investment, or in direct proportion with the amounts contributed by each spouse?”

Yes. The higher income spouse should pay all household expenses leaving the lower income spouse free to invest. If money still needs to be moved from one to the other, CRA says you can lend your spouse money at the “prescribed rate,” currently 1%. That interest would be taxable in the hands of the lender, and deductable by the borrower.

#220 Ken Nash on 09.11.15 at 1:49 pm

To my way of thinking a TFSA is for the affluent. People saving money is good. For most people, without pension plans, an RRSP makes more sense.

Something I would like to see changed with RRSP contributions is contributions be carried forward for up to 10 years. People don’t always have predictable income. It might encourage more folks to save more if they come into a windfall of cash, with less accumulated RRSP credit to cover, to invest more in an RRSP.

Being allowed to use an RRSP to purchase a house is just goofy and should be stopped. HELOCs should have never been allowed in the first place. It’s one thing for tax payers to ensure the purchase of a home but anything else is out there. It’s been great for the banks pushing the Never-Never Plan on people. HELOCs have really distorted the way folks think about debt and being debt free.

#221 DisgustMadeMePost on 09.11.15 at 1:53 pm

#205 Gonkman on 09.11.15 at 12:57 pm

All I know is our Retirement Fund will be $150K+ Less when we retire if they lower it back.

……

Seriously? You still have that money …. You will just have to invest it differently .

#222 cramar on 09.11.15 at 1:54 pm

#169 The Other Chris on 09.11.15 at 10:06 am

Something is wrong in this country where a guy wearing a $20,000 watch (Trudeau) to his campaign appearances thinks a $4,500 increase to the TFSA limit is “for the wealthy”.

—————

I guess Justin has not read the book by Thomas J. Stanley, Stop Acting Rich. Stanley had a lot to say about people who wear an expensive watch compared to what the average millionaire wears.

#223 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 1:55 pm

#210 JimH — “If half the family incomes in Canada are above $76,500 per year, your 6 examples above cannot possibly account for their inability to save a dime! Get real!”

Don’t get sucked into that debate. There are undoubtedly many, many families with similar incomes who have a bit too much house (higher utilities and property tax) in the wrong place (two cars, both insured as commuters, meaning high insurance and fuel bills), and are “just getting by.” We don’t want to encourage more litanies of woe here, do we?

#224 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 09.11.15 at 1:55 pm

NOT EVERYBODY…who has a TFSA is rich.

For instance: I know people who are 71 or 72 years of age and who have maybe about $35 thousand in their RRSPs (each), as average examples.

They are de-registering those plans and moving them into RRIFs and thence into their TFSAs.

They are doing so at a rate of 10Gs a year because they are currently on G.I.S. supplements they will lose until they’ve moved their funds into those TFSAs.

So does that make them the “rich” for a period of three tax years, Mssrs. Trudeau and Mulcair?

Be careful of what you wish for from potential supporters. There are a lot of people out there in similar situations.

#225 IHCTD9 on 09.11.15 at 1:58 pm

#188 J man on 09.11.15 at 12:02 pm
…On the topic of TFSA’s. Gov’t obligations don’t go down because of TFSA’s. So any taxes lost to TFSA’s has to be made up elsewhere. If the cold hard reality is that one group of citizens is clearly in a better position to take advantage of this benefit then it is essentially a tax shift to the less fortunate (barring an offsetting wealth tax elsewhere). There are always a few exceptions like some extreme savers but big policy decisions shouldn’t be made based on the exceptions.

And to another point. Taxing investment income is NOT double taxing. If I save I should be entitled to my savings being there plus compensation to adjust for inflation and maybe a risk premium in the investing (say 5%). Anything over and above that is income and not just income but unearned income. No value added work was done to obtain that income…or should I say someone else worked for that income. In reality investment income over and above the original savings amount plus the few considerations should be taxed at double the rate of money earned through actual work. All we are doing is creating a society whereby we are encouraging people to sit on their derriere and reap profits on the backs of others. Pilfering the wealth they have created. And as shown in the this comments section creating some big ego’s to boot. How many people here have made disparaging comments about the very people who are EARNING the money that’s padding their unearned income. Something wrong there…
____________________________________________

The only thing wrong here is you don’t know WTF you’re talking about.

Folks invest ENABLING work to be done, and to share in the profit/loss of the venture. How many major projects that now provide product and jobs would never have got off the ground if it were not for private investment? Share the risk, share the reward.

If I enable work to be done by investing, the government wins. I (and many others) take the risk, and if the company we invested in succeeds, jobs and product are created that which otherwise would never have existed. The newly created job income, and product are taxable, not to mention every last single thing involved in carrying out the work.

IMHO, Government should be going bonkers creating incentives for me to invest, and invest in Canada. This is what a TFSA is. But no, folks like you are too worried about someone making a few bucks outside their day job…

#226 to_be_frank on 09.11.15 at 2:03 pm

Much posturing in this election campaign. Little sincerity or substance. Parties with fiscally implausible platforms. My advice is to vote for the best candidate in your riding and hold your nose. We can only hope that this election leads to some housecleaning and better choices next time. Whoever gets in will likely lead a fragile minority, so that may be conducive to change for the better.

#227 4 AM Sunrise on 09.11.15 at 2:11 pm

#188 J man on 09.11.15 at 12:02 pm

In reality investment income over and above the original savings amount plus the few considerations should be taxed at double the rate of money earned through actual work. All we are doing is creating a society whereby we are encouraging people to sit on their derriere and reap profits on the backs of others.

Giving tax breaks on investment income is not “creating” a society of rentiers. We’re already halfway there thanks to globalization, TFW’s, outsourcing, and automation. We’re already “profiting” when we don’t have to pick our own fruit because there’s an illegal doing that for us at slave wages. And then there’s that story above about Canadians being replaced by immigrants willing to work more for less. I hear stories about companies laying off one worker and shifting that workload onto an existing worker who’s burning out. The bottom line is growing on society’s balance sheet, but the top line is not. Should be interesting how this all shakes out over the next few years.

#228 The Other Chris on 09.11.15 at 2:22 pm

I think one’s pessimism about the job market correlates pretty strongly with what field you’re in. I have friends who can’t fight off the recruiters (mostly in tech), hiring is strong in the public service at the provincial level in a few of the provinces, and health-related professions still seem to be strong. On the other hand, my wife has a PhD in one of the life sciences and the pickings are extremely slim. So it goes.

#229 4 AM Sunrise on 09.11.15 at 2:23 pm

For those people who question the budgets of families with children: children nowadays do cost money, man. More than when I was a child. My parents’ eyes glaze over when I talk about how parents today purchase school supplies come September. The notion of spending after-tax money on the tools of public education after school taxes have already been paid is hilariously foreign to them.

I wonder how many frugal parents raid their corporations’ stationery supply cabinet for school supplies for the kids. Awww c’mon….somebody’s done it!

#230 young & foolish on 09.11.15 at 2:31 pm

“I am a gen X’er, and I can say that I did not have to compete with a Chinese/Indian guy with a Masters Degree willing to work for 20K below the going rate when I entered the job market. This is a problem that manifested itself during the Millennials’ entrance into the job market.”

Well, it’s easier to bring the 3rd world to the 1st than the other way around.

” Too bad their left leaning will be the last few nails in their collective coffins.”

What are they supposed to do about it? Roll over and take it like a …. ? Wait until the TPP comes through. Then we really get to see what remains for the “entitled”.

#231 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 2:34 pm

#132 MF: “#48 Daisy Mae on 09.10.15 at 7:47 pm
I make like 50k/year and I managed to add the full 10k this year. Padding? Get real. Read Linda at 81.”

*****************

Want to raise hell with someone? YOU try reading #22. I was simply agreeing….and still do.

#232 young & foolish on 09.11.15 at 2:42 pm

“There are undoubtedly many, many families with similar incomes who have a bit too much house (higher utilities and property tax) in the wrong place (two cars, both insured as commuters, meaning high insurance and fuel bills), and are “just getting by.””

They are your customers who make your dividend income possible. Beware the movements toward “share” and “frugal” economies.

#233 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 2:48 pm

#147: “Trudeau and Mulcair are anti-renters! Are they not?”

***********************

So is Harper, the economist.

#234 MF on 09.11.15 at 2:53 pm

#213 IHCTD9 on 09.11.15 at 1:24 pm

Wonderful post! Thanks for that.

I will add that as a result of everything you mentioned (which was bang on), we Canadian born millennials often gravitate towards jobs where clear communication is important, usually in sales (Real estate, Pharma, Personal Training, Serving tables etc.)

These jobs can be lucrative but they are often unstable. You also have to be highly extroverted.

MF

#235 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 2:58 pm

#149: “I can’t belive promising to reduce the TFSA is a popular campaign pledge. We must have the dumbest population on the planet.”

********************

Or, the dumbest politicians.

#236 young & foolish on 09.11.15 at 2:58 pm

In big cities, nobody really “buys” RE any more … they just become custodians of the property until it’s time to pass it on to the next guy. It’s all about the monthly, and you can “feel” like an owner.

#237 glen on 09.11.15 at 3:05 pm

Ralph Cramdown #154 said:

There’s nothing wrong with the accounting. It’s the BUDGETING where you failed.

How so sir?

How much is a mortgage annually these days? Or even monthly rest?

How much is transportation these days…in the fictitious example above I leased a kia for goodness sakes. Even if the person took the bus daily to work( which would likely mean higher housing cost due to proximity in the city)…it’s around the amount I suggested.

Groceries? Nope…that’s the cost

I think you are exposing that you haven’t a clue about what it might be like raising a family.

Fine enough then…break down the BUDGET for me and find 20,000K

Good luck :)

I’m right.

#238 MF on 09.11.15 at 3:09 pm

#235 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 2:58 pm

Nah the politicians are smart. They are just pandering to the financially illiterate-real estate-always-goes up-crowd of morons (90% of people).

#236 young & foolish on 09.11.15 at 2:58 pm

Bingo. None of these people plan on paying off their mortgage. That is so last century. Nobody fears debt anymore. It’s become your friend. Debt is your buddy who gives you free money so you can go buy an Audi and listen to hip hop music like some movie star wannabe.

That is why interest rates will rise, asset bubbles everywhere, and no thoughts about the repercussions of borrowing massive amounts of money by everyday Joe’s.

MF

#239 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 3:17 pm

#176: “#48 Daisy Mae/#136 Oceanside

ironically, you are both still endorsing state initiated violence, but are apparently not socialist.”

*****************

Gosh….all I said was “I agree”. LOL Now I’m advocating ‘violence’? Some posters are seriously disturbed….

#240 Canadian on 09.11.15 at 3:26 pm

#227 4 AM Sunrise on 09.11.15 at 2:11 pm

A “balance sheet” (cGAAP is gone so its not actually called that anymore) doesn’t have a bottom line friend.

#241 JSS on 09.11.15 at 3:32 pm

For those millenials/Gen X’s who are in between jobs or have expensive (and useless degrees), may I offer you another option…

Buy an existing small business with cash flow.

Instead of getting the Bank of Mom and Dad to buy you a house, have them provide a down payment on a business.

Look at the benefits:
– Work in your business, and forget sending out resumes and fighting against hundreds of equally qualified candidates
– Build yourself equity
– Buy yourself “cash flow”income
– Use your education to improve the business’ process and towards profitability
– Tax benefits

Is buying a small business risky? Yes, but so is relying on a job.

Hard to get financing? At least go try to get financing from a bank, or through BDC.

Is running a business hard work? Yes, but so is working fifty hours a week, and then getting the boot out the door when you become too expensive to keep.

Don’t have business skills? Don’t worry. You’ll learn. Fast. Especially when you have ‘skin in the game’, i.e. yours or other’s down payment.

#242 Nora Lenderby on 09.11.15 at 3:44 pm

#176 saskatoon on 09.11.15 at 10:37 am
#308 saskatoon on 09.03.15 at 12:54 pm
#151 Setting the Record Straight
…of course it is theft–stolen through state initiated force. only those who are without a sense of self cannot fathom it being as such. after all, if a person has no concept of themselves as an individual, responsible, free human…how could someone steal from them? or anyone for that matter?
notice also how i never commented that “concern for the less fortunate was stupid”.i have NEVER said this.
word games, name-calling, and rhetoric are all the unhinged government boot lickers really have.
almost every statist comment here attests to that.
oh…and snark. they also have snark.

At the risk of repeating myself, even Mr. T. finds it within his kind nature to put snark on the menu sometimes. Could he be a tad exasperated?

Anyhoo…I have thought about your posts – do I detect a core of anarchism/libertarianism? Interesting.

Although you are consistently trollish (abuse people, mistake their good intentions, and then claim to be a victim) there is something perhaps you could explain;
how do you propose we get from what we have now to your ideal scenario? What is that ideal scenario?

My opinion, fwiw: societies, states, civilizations (in the sense of large groups living in cities) are not really about committing violence. They are actually about the fear of violence. Defense.

Almost all that I am aware of, grew out of fortified villages (usually on hill tops). Life outside those was crude and unpleasant, waiting for the warlord to come and take your crops, your animals and perhaps kill you and your children and carry off your womenfolk. No-one, including the warlord, had much of anything worth having by today’s standards, except perhaps lice, but I digress.

What we have now is the partially finished result of a long process that will continue after we are all dead. A compromise. Some parts of the world are at different stages. Mostly people have tacitly agreed to not kill, steal, rape or cheat one another, most of the time.

Unless you are a child or at some disadvantage (which you may be) you pay taxes to the state that then (ideally) provides the protection, the infrastructure and the justice system that allows civilized life to exist.

I mean civilized in the sense that you can carry your iPhone into a coffee shop, buy a cup of coffee and get a wifi signal (not that I ever do this, but let’s assume I could if I wanted to).

#243 lee on 09.11.15 at 3:46 pm

JSS,

Great advice for anyone who doesn’t mind hard work.

#244 Dup on 09.11.15 at 3:47 pm

One day most will come to understand that TFSA is the best thing that a government ever created. It is a great investment tool that other countries in the world wish they had.

#245 John on 09.11.15 at 4:06 pm

#235 Daisy Mae

“Or, the dumbest politicians.”

I wish that were true. However I actually think they are smart. They know that 93% of the population are not making the max contributions so they are appealing to the the over-indebted, house poor people with no financial literacy. They are simply playing a numbers game and it’s working. The people celebrate it. What a shame.

#246 Nora Lenderby on 09.11.15 at 4:07 pm

#163 Axehead on 09.11.15 at 9:19 am
Republican: where the hell are the Republicans?

That, dear sir, is a good question. Is “on a different planet” too snarky, perchance?

#247 Shawn on 09.11.15 at 4:20 pm

Rentiers Revenge (Or Maybe Non-Rentiers Revenge)

4am sunrise said:

Giving tax breaks on investment income is not “creating” a society of rentiers. We’re already halfway there thanks to globalization, TFW’s, outsourcing, and automation.

*******************************************
Being a rentier means living off capital as opposed to labour.

As the world economy progressed from hunter gatherer to farmer to industrial to post-industrial the portion on the world’s output per person attributable to capital kept on and keeps on rising. The portion of output directly attributable to the resources of the land and to labour has declined.

It is inevitable that on average well over 50% of income is or will be attributable to capital or to the rentier. This could approach 100% as labour becomes obsolete. And it will.

This a good thing.

In earlier times we forecast the leisure society.

It will be up to government to insure that there is a fair division of the output to owners of capital versus others and a fair chance for young people to accumulate capital by methods other than inheritance.

This division will be up to government and taxation rules.

Current rules seem to favor the existing owners of capital and their heirs.

It’s fair to debate whether the rules including taxation of rentier income should change.

Meanwhile, yes we are moving more and more to a rentier society. If you have not been accumulating capital in your life, it would be wise to start doing so.

#248 young & foolish on 09.11.15 at 4:30 pm

The reality of politics is not necessarily about being right or just, but about opportunity. When large groups of people begin to fail and fall behind, regardless of the reason, the political pendulum begins to swing.

Just look at what happened to the Conservative heartland of Canada a few months ago. And consider the appeal of “outsider” Donald Trump.

#249 Julia on 09.11.15 at 4:30 pm

#162 Adam

That’s what we do as well. It’s not as if the taxable $60 per month per child makes a dent in childcare costs anyway, might as well put it all in the RESP and get the 20% grant.

#250 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.15 at 4:30 pm

This is an egalitarian and fair sheltering from additional tax of the money people make – and on which those richer than you have already paid far more tax.
———————————
Then why is Joe O on the record as saying he’s unsure of the long-term sustainability of allowing a 10g TFSA limit? Are you suggesting the government needs to eliminate revenue in the form of investment taxes? Last time i checked, the poor and middle class hold little investments and assets that can be taxed. And if you believe a 40k annual salary for a 25 yr old is an outrageous story you may be more out of touch than most of us previously thought!

#251 Ralph Cramdown on 09.11.15 at 4:47 pm

#237 glen — “I think you are exposing that you haven’t a clue about what it might be like raising a family. Fine enough then…break down the BUDGET for me and find 20,000K”

I *am* raising a family. It isn’t my job to budget for others — my priorities aren’t your priorities. If saving is a lower priority FOR YOU than all the stuff you spend all your income on, I’m fine with that. But given that budget, I guarantee there’s similar households that are saving more and spending less. It’s all about choices.

#252 Rainclouds on 09.11.15 at 5:07 pm

“Look at the depth of its talent pool” -gt

The Reformers have been leaving like rats from a very leaky ship. So Kenny and Owe are the brightest lights on a very dim tree. Thanks for the 150b debt bill you fiscal managers extraordinaire………

NDP is infested with professional kumbya do gooders who in most case couldn’t run a lemon-aid stand. $15 a day daycare……..ok how does that work?

JT seems to have a few sharp folks running with him which is fortunate, depends on his management style, the big unknown. More than a bit pissed at holding the TFSA to 5g

What a COMPLETE mess. Yes we deserve it……………….

#253 Doug in London on 09.11.15 at 5:07 pm

While I personally like the idea of putting $10000 a year into a TFSA, I recall economists saying it’s bad idea as it disproportionately helps out the wealthiest people while depriving government of revenue many years down the road. I wouldn’t object to the NDP or Liberals, if voted in, rolling back this generous amount.

#254 Doug in London on 09.11.15 at 5:16 pm

@Linda, posts #81 and 130:
You’re quite right, despite what the naysayers here say. I subscribed to an Email newsletter from Derek Foster, the guy who retired in his mid 30s, and has the website http://www.stopworking.ca . Here’s some excellent reading from his latest newsletter:

Some people face terrible circumstances that prevent them from attaining wealth – but the majority of people don’t. So why aren’t more people wealthy? Most people don’t think for themselves and feel more comfortable following the crowd.

With back-to-school upon us this week, let’s start with kids. Many kids slavishly follow fashion trends no matter what. Over the last few years I couldn’t help noticing many young guys wearing pants that look like they were borrowed from their much bigger brother – the pants literally fall around their ankles. I guess I don’t understand the “cool” factor, but many people pay incredible sums for “fashion” (which begs the question of who gets to decide what’s fashionable)? Schools reinforce this notion of following the crowd by issuing standard school supply lists which include enough supplies to equip a small army of students. Can’t parents and kids figure out for themselves what they need for school? A few years ago, my wife and I chose homeschooling – both problems solved (and it frees us up a lot more to do the things we want).

Then young people are taught that they MUST go to university to succeed. In reality, many courses and majors offered at university are useless in regards to finding a career. People could do themselves a huge favour by investigating the job prospects of what they’re considering studying before incurring huge debts.

Moving along, many people choose to buy much bigger and more opulent houses than they really need. Once you indebt yourself, you can spend years digging yourself out – and really for what reason? To impress people?
Many consumer goods (most luxury goods), seem to be purchased solely to impress others and offer limited actual utility to the actual buyer. Regardless, many people (often people who can’t really afford them), buy these item in droves.

When it comes to financial affairs, people follow the advice of the (not wealthy) people they know. The standard advice seems to be to get an education, work hard for many years, save (keeping your money safe in bank deposits and GIC)s. Then in the twilight of your life, you may get a few years to enjoy retirement…

This plan sucks! Here’s a better one:

Reject fashion and hyper-consumption and only buy what truly adds value to your life. You many not impress you neighbours, but who cares. Only study a degree if there is a high chance of employment. Also consider the trades – the money there can be much better than people think. Avoid monstrous houses and buy something more modest – save the difference. Never buy bank products, buy dividend-paying stocks. That`s what the wealthy people do. Enjoy life while you’re still young enough to do so.

I have no great marketable skills, never earned a large income, but through thoughtful spending and investing, I’ve done pretty well.

My secret…I don’t care what other people think about what I own and I copied the investing habits of wealthy people.

Derek Foster (The Idiot Millionaire)

How’s that for some good reading?

#255 Shawn on 09.11.15 at 5:19 pm

Taxation is about Protection

Great post from Nora Lenderby just above.

Jarred Diamond in his history of the world has documented that safty of person against attack from other people was a HUGE problem in primitive societies. It was not safe to meet any stranger. Strangers often immediately attempted to kill each other. Crude government and chiefdoms arose to provide protection. Some form of taxes and following the rules soon followed.

Saskatoon’s attitudes in contrast are completely anti-social.

#256 Renter's Revenge! on 09.11.15 at 5:28 pm

@Shawn, RE: Rentiers Revenge

Hey, I resemble that comment! :)

“It will be up to government to insure that there is a fair division of the output to owners of capital versus others and a fair chance for young people to accumulate capital by methods other than inheritance….If you have not been accumulating capital in your life, it would be wise to start doing so.”

That said, you can lead a horse to water, but can you get it to drink?

#257 Canadian on 09.11.15 at 5:35 pm

haha Jared Diamond, that affable misanthrope who remarked that ‘Agriculture was humanities greatest mistake’

http://www.livinganthropologically.com/anthropology/agriculture-as-worst-mistake-in-the-history-of-the-human-race/

#258 4 AM Sunrise on 09.11.15 at 5:41 pm

Derek Foster talks a good game, and what he wrote about rejecting materialism is sound, but his investment strategy wasn’t so much “lazy” as it was “lucky”: https://secure.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20090325/HEINZL25

#259 Leo Trollstoy on 09.11.15 at 5:56 pm

#241 JSS on 09.11.15 at 3:32 pm

Your intent is good but any person who spent the time and effort to get an ‘expensive (and useless)’ degree won’t be able to run a business.

If they can’t even get a job, there’s no way they can run a business. No way.

#260 Leo Trollstoy on 09.11.15 at 6:03 pm

I am a gen X’er, and I can say that I did not have to compete with a Chinese/Indian guy with a Masters Degree willing to work for 20K below the going rate when I entered the job market.

If a millenial growing up in a first world country can’t get a job when competing against a $20k cheaper, third world candidate, then they didn’t deserve the job anyway.

Cuz if that were the case, the first world candidate sucks.

Seriously.

#261 AB on 09.11.15 at 6:23 pm

What’s the deal with Stephen Harper bringing in some Aussie “expert” to try and reverse the terrible campaign results so far???

#262 Paul on 09.11.15 at 6:32 pm

#253 Doug in London on 09.11.15 at 5:07 pm

While I personally like the idea of putting $10000 a year into a TFSA, I recall economists saying it’s bad idea as it disproportionately helps out the wealthiest people while depriving government of revenue many years down the road. I wouldn’t object to the NDP or Liberals, if voted in, rolling back this generous amount.
———————————————————-
Does the Government have to control and tax every aspect of life!

#263 espressobob on 09.11.15 at 6:41 pm

#241 JSS

Running a small business has its hurdles and that’s from a poster with three decades of experience.

And yes its worth all the “hell” anyone has to go through to get a taste of success. Failure is a learning curve and quite valuable to those with the guts to move forward and focus on their goals.

How do you measure success?

#264 The American on 09.11.15 at 6:46 pm

At #150: NoREBubble, you obviously understand the economic fundamentals to supporting a sustained real estate environment, as well as demand relative to the Canadian population quite well… said nobody ever.

#265 Doug in London on 09.11.15 at 6:53 pm

@4AM Sunrise, post #258:
As we’ve discussed many times before on this blog, when someone is successful at anything they do (including early retirement) there will always be someone who says they got plain lucky or somehow “cheated” and thus no one else can have their success. It’s an easy cop out excuse, rather than admit they don’t have the self discipline and ability to put in the effort required to have similar success. Such is the case for the person who wrote the article you posted a link to. So, was Derek Foster just plain lucky? Of course he was! His “luck” is consistent with my findings, namely that the more effort I put into anything I do, the luckier I get!

#266 Doug in London on 09.11.15 at 7:07 pm

@Paul, post #262:
You say that, but do YOU use any government services at all? I bet you’d be the first to complain about cut backs of any government services you use. Why don’t we just cut taxes to zero and get rid of ALL government services? Who needs police services? If you try to break into my home, you’ll find out the hard way I’m a deadly accurate shot with a double barrel shotgun. Is that the kind of society you want to live, or should I say exist in?

You’re a typical Canadian who complains about high taxes, but wants all fully funded government services, and a good example of why governments are running deficits providing those services.

#267 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 7:44 pm

#244: “One day most will come to understand that TFSA is the best thing that a government ever created.”

**************

That Garth introduced. Flaherty just tweaked it abit probably….and the ‘cons’ took the credit.

#268 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 7:53 pm

#235 Daisy Mae on 09.11.15 at 2:58 pm “Nah the politicians are smart. They are just pandering to the financially illiterate-real estate-always-goes up-crowd of morons (90% of people).”

**************

I see your point.

#269 maxx on 09.11.15 at 8:17 pm

#149 John on 09.11.15 at 2:40 am

“I can’t belive promising to reduce the TFSA is a popular campaign pledge. We must have the dumbest population on the planet.”

Hear, hear! Younger fools espousing this don’t seem to realize that TFSA contribution room will be greatly appreciated later in life. The rest on this side of the argument are beyond hope.
It may not be so much that we’re dumber than others it’s simply that we’re showing our slip as a generally bitter, jealous, keep-up-with-the Jones’s little people…..and we’ll be damned if others do better.

Destroy your future wealth to spite others…….
Now that’s beyond dumb.

#270 Glen on 09.11.15 at 8:21 pm

Ralph Cramdown post #251

Regardless of how you respond, you did NOT answer the direct question.

Break down the 60,000K income for me as apparently you have devised some genius way to pay little for housing, groceries, childcare etc.

If you are unable to do so as succinctly as I did…just admit it.

It’s one thing to come on this blog site and claim to have the *saving solution*…just stop being an irresponsible spender…quite another to demonstrate how-so.

Well, I can dole out the numbers that prove that *claim* is absurd. I am 100% confident that my numbers hold up.

Your claim…..not so much sir.

Anyone who claims a family earning 60K can bank 20K net per year is just not crunching accurate numbers. And to suggest that the reason they cannot is because they are inept budgeters is just flat out false.

I’ve crunched the numbers Ralph (and Garth)…show me yours…

Again…I’m right.

#271 Tony on 09.11.15 at 8:57 pm

Re: #253 Doug in London on 09.11.15 at 5:07 pm

If they role it back to $5,500 who’s to say they don’t abolish the TFSA altogether?

#272 M.Daigle Sons on 09.11.15 at 10:12 pm

Very Nice!!!

#273 willworkforpickles on 09.12.15 at 12:57 am

This time around you must vote on your leaders with the best hair….Trump for president…Trudeau for pm….why not …they both have nice hair….right?

#274 Doug in London on 09.12.15 at 10:14 am

@Tony, post #271:
Abolish the TFSA? Imagine how well that would go over!

#275 Brett on 09.12.15 at 3:23 pm

Don’t laugh. When I was growing up and living in Quebec it was not unusual for the Rhinoserous Party candidate to receive more votes than the Conservatve candidate.

And with good reason.

#276 Jean-Patrick Berthiaume on 09.13.15 at 5:49 pm

This is the longest federal erecton since i was born and the rhinos have the most believable promises.
I voted for the rhino in the two last erections,
and yes, i had an orgasm.
I can wait to vote in october.
Try it too, you will see.

#277 Harry Wilson on 09.14.15 at 1:57 am

Hello again, Mr. Turner. As usual, I’m a little behind in my reading, but I just saw a comment on the September 8th post, ‘Not So Bad’, where you deleted the link in a comment by bible thumper, numerologist, and doomer Michael Snyder.

I just wanted to point out that the link is still live behind his name, to something called ‘End Of The American Dream’. It’s likely too late to worry about it, but I thought I’d mention it just in case.

Here’s the page, comment #6:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2015/09/08/not-so-bad/

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By the way, I had to jump ahead a couple of posts to find one that I could still comment on, and this, from your first paragraph, caught my eye:

“Tom Mulcair will officially announce he’s trashing the TFSA increase. … This is what you’d expect a socialist to say…”

As a commie pinko leftard (possibly the most dangerous kind), I take exception to that statement. With the current contribution limit of $41,000, I am able to keep more than 50% of my net worth chugging along out of reach of the taxman. My friend has a net worth of eight figures, halfway to nine, and he is able to contribute less than 0.1% of his net worth to his TFSA. What a wonderful example of progressive taxation.

Also, I’ll bet that every sawbuck saved makes a bigger difference in my life than it would in his.

————————————————-

P.S. Hope you’re doing okay, enduring all the misery in the comment section lately. Nice to see Ralph Cramdown aka Effluence Greasy popping by again; we need more positivity in the steerage/bilge. Cat Food Lady, you still out there?