Could be better

BUS HEAD modified

Here’s the thesis.

Discount it all you want. Ignore me. Believe your mom instead. Or [email protected] You can do what everyone else is – buying what’s going up (houses) and shunning what looks dodgy (equities, commodities). Or you can stop thinking with your pants, and go another way. Whatever. But this sure looks like one of those watershed times.

Here it is: the Canadian economy’s weak and getting weaker. BMO says it’s the worst situation in half a century, outside of disaster periods like 2008-9. There’ll be recessions in Alberta, Saskatchewan and on the Rock. The whole country might actually be in one, with GDP likely to grow for the entire year by only 1%.

Here’s a view of that.

GDP

The interesting point is that only once in our history has a federal election been called when the economy sucked this hard. That was in 1958, when John Diefenbaker buried Lester Pearson with the biggest majority ever. People were obviously in a mood.

Now you also know about the dollar. At 75 cents it’s collapsed 20% against the US currency over the last two years and (as I mentioned recently) is forecast by Oppenheimer to lose another 14%. While this is good for exports (our trade deficit was less of a disaster this week), it’s historically been tough on the governing party. Look here, from Bloomberg…

LOONIE PREDICTOR

Only twice before was an election called when the dollar was croaking. Both of those votes gave the opposition a massive win – for Brian Mulroney in 1984, and for Jean Chretien in 1993 (reducing the Conservatives to just two seats).

So part one of the thesis is that the Canadian economy will probably fall further in the next few months, and could well (if history means anything, plus the vitriol spewing from the steerage section of this blog) result in political instability. That, in turn, will create more economic trouble with the currency reacting negatively. Six months ago I did not believe it, but now I do. A dollar sub-70 cents is out there.

There are two additional reasons for this. First, commodity prices have collapsed and are back at 2008 levels. Poor growth numbers and a dangerous real estate market in China have tanked demand and spooked investors. This is obviously not great for Canada, especially since there’s a multi-year supply of surplus oil sloshing around in storage. Here’s a view of how commodity prices have collapsed, taking gold, oil and copper along for the ride…

COMMODITIES

Meanwhile, the US recovery continues and it looks certain American interest rates will start a long, slow ascent next month. In the last couple of days strong data on service sector growth and hawkish comments by a central banker have heightened expectations that the Fed will indeed pull the trigger in five weeks. Again, here’s a Bloomberg summary showing 52% of observers now counting on the September move…

RATE HIKE

So, there you go. Recessionary economy. Political uncertainty. Commodity tailspin. Higher US rates, leading to a stronger American dollar. This is why the loonie looks cooked. A dramatically lower dollar is inflationary, of course, and leads to higher consumer prices – just in time for winter and all those lettuce imports. (And did I mention what climate change has done to the California breadbasket?)

Historically, consumer spending has declined in Canada along with the dollar. But history ain’t much of a guide right now, because never before have households carried such epic levels of debt. If consumer prices ratchet higher as the currency falls, it’s hard to imagine spending will not be curtailed, leading to more economic fallout. More lost jobs. Especially if oil keeps sinking.

And recall the graph yesterday about the massive share of the economy that residential real estate occupies. This adds additional risk because given all of the above it’s illogical to believe sales and prices will continue their ascent. In fact, expect the opposite.

Conclusions:

  • Be happy you followed my advice and seriously reduced Canadian asset exposure.
  • Living in 416 or YVR, house-rich and indebted? Sell.
  • Always maintain a portion of your liquid assets in US$. I like about 20%.
  • Commodities will be too cheap to pass up. But not yet.
  • Tell your daughter you’re not financing her condo.
  • It’ll be a really lousy time to win this election. You were right. They’re all nuts.

280 comments ↓

#1 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 5:27 pm

Markets seem up till Fed.

#2 Squirrel meat on 08.05.15 at 5:30 pm

So, do you wish you were the bearded bloke about to become PM?

#3 That guy on 08.05.15 at 5:34 pm

Shouldn’t you like 40% USD exposure due to 20% US / 20% International in a balanced portfolio?

#4 Sideshow Rob on 08.05.15 at 5:42 pm

“It’ll be a really lousy time to win this election. You were right. They’re all nuts.”

Agreed. Whomever wins should demand a recount. Canada is a mess. Not to blame the current government, This disaster is a global phonominon

#5 Sideshow Rob on 08.05.15 at 5:44 pm

oops hit send too fast.

“It’ll be a really lousy time to win this election. You were right. They’re all nuts.”

Agreed. Whomever wins should demand a recount. Canada is a mess. Not to blame the current government, This disaster is a global phenomenon. The commodity collapse could not have been prevented no matter who is in power. China’s slowdown is going to impact every country. Canada will endure…unless the dippers get power.

#6 Paul on 08.05.15 at 5:46 pm

That settles it we only have one shot Justin or Mulcair.
Let’s change the Captain and let the SEMEN take over. lol

#7 rk usa on 08.05.15 at 5:48 pm

re: Historically, consumer spending has declined in Canada along with the dollar.

but houses have never been worth so much and money so cheap

so expect the debt party to go on for a little while longer as those who still have a job (for now) to draw more equity out of their houses to buy that bmw, redo the kitchen and bath and hit the tropics this winter

#8 BearishBull on 08.05.15 at 5:53 pm

Hi Garth,

I’ve been following and reading your blog for some time now. You make some excellent points and give some great food for thought. However, I think the reality now is that the interest rate will remain low for a very long time probably a few years or more. This is the attempt of the BOC to spur exports by devaluing our dollar. Eventually it will take hold and equilibrium will result until growth starts again. We all need to tighten our belts, stop borrowing cheap money, and hold on until things pick up.

#9 Big English on 08.05.15 at 5:55 pm

Still putting up the good fight in holding off buying a house. Under a lot of pressure.

Enjoying watching my diverse portfolio, inside and outside of TFSA, grow and weather the ups and downs.

Its going to be a long summer.

#10 Exilled on 08.05.15 at 5:56 pm

Sir Garth, It’s time again, for the Fall.

#11 Bucky on 08.05.15 at 5:58 pm

Wait a minute, you said “climate change”! Hope you had that old Tory tattoo laser-removed before Stevie’s boys show up with the cheese grater.

#12 Brian Ripley on 08.05.15 at 6:01 pm

Re: “Living in 416 or YVR, house-rich and indebted? Sell.” Garth

I have the Vancouver housing data with charts up now (including Bullhorse Mt. & the Doubling projection charts – spoiler alert, the next SFD price double is slated for Oct 2018):

http://www.chpc.biz/vancouver-housing.html

The hyperion blowoff is underway as the bulls demolition resistance… but it’s happening as sales coil down and head into the 4Q seasonal sales nadir.

#13 Mike in the Okanagan on 08.05.15 at 6:04 pm

Ok..now I’m depressed.

#14 Andres on 08.05.15 at 6:13 pm

It makes me chuckle when no matter how badly a job the neocon parties are doing, people always cry about how bad things will get when the NDP are in power. “Look how badly we did with the economy, wait until you see what they do to it, better keep us around to keep our slow, measured economic destruction going on.”

This despite there being no statistical data that NDP parties as an average actually do tank economies or do worse economically than others.

#15 Canadian export details on 08.05.15 at 6:15 pm

From today’s Stats Canada report on the merchandise trade:

“Exports of metal and non-metallic mineral products grew 10.8% to $5.1 billion on higher volumes. The main contributor to the increase in exports was unwrought precious metals and precious metal alloys, up 18.3% to $1.7 billion in June.

$1.7 Billion/month is a very high number for “precious metals/alloys”

If for example this was pure gold this amount will translate to around 37 tonnes (or almost 3,000 bricks @400oz each

#16 Jimmy on 08.05.15 at 6:15 pm

I have a decent portion of my liquid assets in US$ and rest is diversified and they’re doing well. However the relentless pressure and endless questioning from everyone around on why I’m not a home owner and how “you will be priced out forever”, “you’re just throwing away money renting”, “why rent when you can buy for the same price?”, and “you are just jealous you missed the boat on housing and now you’re looking for others to blame” is getting more and more tiresome. Why am I still in nut-central 604?

#17 MSM-Free Zone on 08.05.15 at 6:20 pm

“….vitriol spewing from the steerage section of this blog…..”
_________________________

Define ‘..steerage section..’.

#18 Ronald Raygun on 08.05.15 at 6:24 pm

Recession is when your neighbour loses his job

Depression is when you lose yours

Recovery is when Stephen Harper loses his

#19 Vanecdotal on 08.05.15 at 6:24 pm

Perfect storm a comin’, sadly right on schedule.

gLowBall news on (just) one of BCs booming underground economies: http://globalnews.ca/news/2148387/home-renovations-a-big-part-of-b-c-s-underground-economy/

“B.C’s underground economy is certainly larger than the Canadian average, although we don’t have a precise number for exactly how big it is,” said Jock Finlayson of the Business Council of B.C… People paying under the table costs everyone else something. If enough people stop paying taxes, things can quickly get out of control. In Greece, tax dodging is a national pastime, costing the state billions of euros in revenue. An estimated 10 billion euros in taxes never makes it into government coffers annually – a significant factor in the country’s inability to pay its roughly 320 billion euros in national debt…One of the characteristics of a country like Greece, though, is that it has a very, very large hidden economy,” said Finlayson. “People don’t pay taxes. The public tax collection systems don’t work very well. We’re not in that position.”

Oh yes we most certainly are in that position in YVR lalaland. Our leadership is fully aware and addicted to the FIRE kooliad as all this unreported money washes through the system. Why no action has been taken to address this at municipal and provincial level…yet. Hellooo CRA? Anyone…? Buelller…? Bueller…?

What about the other major underground economy, (weed) estimated to be worth $Billions. Unreported rental income from illegal suites, “cash only” retail, undeclared foreign income, and that’s a LOT of untaxed money washing around locally in a small geographic area.

Back to sleep everyone. Good plebes keep paying your ever increasing income, property, consumption taxes, etc. Bad plebes keep making out like bandits subsidized by good plebes. What a great system we’ve built! Working great for Greece! Oh, wait…

#20 Bill Gable on 08.05.15 at 6:25 pm

Canada is NOT the only “patient” on life support. That’s the rub here.
The mess in Europe, that I just witnessed first hand, Greece, China (*a market CRASH being propped up by $31 BILLION a day in Government stock purchases) – shall I go on?
It makes me wonder – what next>?

That brings me to your assertion that our Loonie is in for a rough ride.

I could not agree more and if I was a Travel Agent, I would be looking for a new gig.

The next 5 years are going to be something else.

#21 Andy on 08.05.15 at 6:25 pm

“Only twice before was an election called when the dollar was croaking. Both of those votes gave the opposition a massive win”

God help us all if its a NDP majority!!

#22 WallOfWorry on 08.05.15 at 6:26 pm

Garth…how can you possibly substantiate the comment “… the US recovery continues and it looks certain American interest rates will start a long, slow ascent next month”? Yes, they may increase in September but there is zero evidence that a long slow ascent is in the cards. The US has massive debt (19 Trillion) and with GDP less than 3% the sad reality is their economy cannot support the increase in rates that you suggest. Additionally, if commodities are depressed that would also suggest that global growth is stalling, and the US is far more dependent upon a strong global economy than any time previously for their economy to continue to mend itself.

#23 not 1st on 08.05.15 at 6:30 pm

“Commodities will be too cheap to pass up. But not yet.”

So how long are we talking?

#24 OttawaguyRenting on 08.05.15 at 6:30 pm

1st – Garth thank you.
2nd – anyone with solid Ottawa RE market numbers? It seems like it is in reverse here backing into molasses!
3rd – Retail sector is clammering to find a solution to empty wallets

4th – this so called CdN economic RE cycle will dissected and talked about for years
We have crossed the Rubicon – my internal whizzle machine that SM the alien talks about is on high anxiety!
It will be a social and economic bloodbath if this Gov doesn’t curtail debt orgies.
This country is being set up to take a huge fall….
So sad

#25 Steve French on 08.05.15 at 6:32 pm

Who you callin’ the hoi polloi in the steerage section?

#26 Drill Baby Drill on 08.05.15 at 6:36 pm

For the commodities listed on this pathetic blog to rise in the near future we need China to once again start building more replica cities that no one can afford to live in and award them another summer Olympics. The winter Olympics awarded to Bejing last week are only 1/10th the size of the summer games therefore will not put a dent in commodities demand.

We are so screwed !!!

#27 Drill Baby Drill on 08.05.15 at 6:39 pm

One other factor that would create incredible commodities demand is a major wreck in the middle east. They are overdue. Places like Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Tunisia, Pakistan, Yemen, Afghanistan and don’t forget the good ole Ukraine.

#28 Vanecdotal on 08.05.15 at 6:40 pm

Another condo-owner anecdote. Ran into an old friend recently who’s had an “investment” condo in Van suburbs (N. of Fraser) for @ 8-9 years, bought as a new build to rent. They were lamenting the “joys” of being a landlord, (loathing it) and also having to deal with tenants asking for rent discounts(!) fairly regularly in recent years. (Interesting).

I remember thinking the owner was nuts at the time to buy in. Asked why haven’t you sold? Reply was they’re underwater. Been losing $ since purchase. They subsidize tenants every month to live there. I said get rid of it, cut your losses. Reply was at least they’re “building equity”, and it’s “forced savings”(wtf?!) Facepalm.

This person was a realtor at the time. No, I don’t make this stuff up, but it IS why I started posting.

#29 Mark on 08.05.15 at 6:41 pm

Claims of a US “recovery” are severely exaggerated. I just wonder what sort of earthquake will be set off at the 16-17 Sept FOMC meeting when they start to acknowledge this.

It seems that everyone and their dog, including the media, are shouting ‘rate hike’, yet evidence is scant of the necessity of one. If they actually raise, I can’t imagine it taking very long before the market starts to puke badly.

#30 Dave on 08.05.15 at 6:41 pm

I hope Tom Mulcair does get a majority!!! Go NDP!!!

#31 james on 08.05.15 at 6:45 pm

“did I mention what climate change has done to the California breadbasket?”

Indeed, things are bad. Last time I was in the central valley I was shocked at how dry it was compared to a year ago. I am told that contracts for produce are done in 6 month blocks, so the price discrepancies aren’t noticeable right away. In 12 months time, Canadians are in for sticker shock on many items.

#32 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 08.05.15 at 6:47 pm

IT’S SOMEBODY ELSE’S FAULT…NO REALLY…

Please read this:

#4 Sideshow Rob on 08.05.15 at 5:42 pm
“It’ll be a really lousy time to win this election. You were right. They’re all nuts.”

Agreed. Whomever wins should demand a recount. Canada is a mess. Not to blame the current government, This disaster is a global phonom(e)non”

MR. SLIDESHOW IS RIGHT, OF COURSE…

But Canadians can take comfort on one very key factor:
a higher American dollar is bad news for ALL US trading partners. Every one.

Competing currencies beggar one another when Country A lowers its interest rate to compete more favourably with Country B, the USA, in this case.

Thus Canada has a more favourable trade balance, FOR NOW, until some other economic disaster comes along.

A high USD is also bad for that country, affecting as it does ITS exports which was also reported on today.

Whom do you blame?

I blame the Currency Wars, which ramped up even more following the 2008 Catastrophe.

They are still with us as the so-called industrialized world tries to deal with collapsing commodities prices, poorer economies, declining tax collections, more deficits and so on.

Then there’s increasing costs brought on by the price of doing business (especially inflation in food and some other key areas).

American economist James Rickards has been hammering away on this Currency Wars issue for years now.

He says the world is in an economic depression detectable by slow economic growth of one to two per cent per year.

Take a look at this commercial:

http://dailyreckoning.com/how-to-survive-the-monetary-collapse/

St. Garth of Trapped-By-History is correct; this is a lousy time for an incumbent to seek re-election. A change in leader will not help us to recover.

Why? The world’s big economies are all tied up in trade deals, protocols and other dangerous political nonsense meaning they can’t get there from here. Not a one.

So, whose responsible for the Currency Wars?

Why central bankers, sleep-at-the-switch and otherwise dumbass politicians from just about everywhere, and electorates which don’t have the foggiest freakin’ idea of what’s going on around them and why and who could care less.

Well folks, the WHY just showed up. Some chicken, some roost.

Now, ask yourself:

If I were Prime Minister of Canada in 2008, WHAT WOULD I HAVE DONE?

Not much, given all of the constraints out there that forced most countries to eventually go along with the world’s reserve currency holder’s decision, the USA, to drop interest rates and print up lots of money (Harper and Co. did not print but used CMHC to guarantee all kinds of mortgages, good and bad, to protect our chartered banks from oblivion. Probably wise enough to do so under the circumstances).

Canada is relatively small alongside most other of the world’s great, and now shrivelling economies.

Lots of pain out there still to come, sadly.

#33 Steerage Section on 08.05.15 at 6:47 pm

Food prices are going insane.. bearded guy has got a real shot at this.

Harpo is gonna run out of clapping seals for the staged photo-ops.

JT is such a fluffer.

#34 Blobby on 08.05.15 at 6:47 pm

“God help us all if its a NDP majority!!”

Why? We’ve never had one before, so we cant possibly know whether it’ll be good or bad. All I personally can see is that what we currently have is awful.

#35 Doug in London on 08.05.15 at 6:51 pm

Only twice before was an election called when the dollar was croaking. Both of those votes gave the opposition a massive win.
*****************************************
Reading that just made my day! Yes, there’s hope for this great contry i call home.

#36 Freedom First on 08.05.15 at 6:57 pm

…..when the economy sucked this hard. Pure Garth. Hilarious and true at the same time.

I used to try and teach people at one time, but I gave up. Today, this is the only place I talk about anything financial or matrimonial. Too much flak in telling the truth.

Had to let my girlfriend of 7 months go this week. She came clean about her financial problems. Too bad, 13 years younger, slim, pretty. That’s ok. I always remember to put my Freedom First. Never forget, “no wife=happy life.”

#37 mitzerboy aka queencity kid on 08.05.15 at 7:02 pm

thx 4 the update on things garth

its gonna b a wild ride in good old Saskatchewan
let r buck…
u can already see the unraveling of government in power.
the spending is catching up to them…again

devine 2.0

#38 Chris on 08.05.15 at 7:06 pm

Garth, at the end of your post you mention: “Commodities will be too cheap to pass up. But not yet.”

What do you think of the big commodities producers like BP? BP looks inexpensive right now to me… 6.53% dividend yield, price-to-book ratio of 1.1, forward P/E of 9.8.

#39 Paul on 08.05.15 at 7:06 pm

#32 Blobby on 08.05.15 at 6:47 pm

“God help us all if its a NDP majority!!”

Why? We’ve never had one before, so we cant possibly know whether it’ll be good or bad. All I personally can see is that what we currently have is awful.
———————————————————-
We had N.D.Peee
In Ontario oh the humanity!!

#40 Tony on 08.05.15 at 7:17 pm

Scenario 2

All job growth will simply vanish in America and rates won’t increase for a long, long time. Since Canada is the main trading partner with America the Canadian dollar could push past the 80 cent mark U.S. Commodities would get a technical bounce. I think this is the most likely scenario although the Canadian dollar will get hammered short term at election time here.

#41 Shawn on 08.05.15 at 7:18 pm

Gentlemen, Place Your Bets…

On the Canadian dollar going down, or up if you feel like it.

Or watch from the sidelines.

Or hedge your exposure if you have one. Or don’t.

So many choices.

Remember, for every bet against the Canadian dollar in the futures market there is an equal and opposite bet that it will rise. The futures market is truly speculation, not investing and is a zero-sum game (negative after costs).

Should be entertaining…

#42 YVR money laundering on 08.05.15 at 7:20 pm

Border security knows it’s HAM and whoever else pumping up the prices…

http://m.canadianrealestatemagazine.ca/news/cbsa-blames-money-laundering-for-vancouver-market-193917.aspx

#43 sideline sitter on 08.05.15 at 7:28 pm

#17 – even funnier is when Harper claims the downturn is outside the government’s influence, but hey, any upbeat news was totally his doing.

Dude needs to go… and many of his senior MPs agreed and moved on

#44 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 7:29 pm

Re. Whole Foods I notice their stock price under pressure.
While GMO is an unknown I concern myself more with toxic industrial chemicals added/in my water supply. Remove them via three-stage home filtration system. My hope is in later years my body will be a bit less concentrated with this stuff. Who knows when it will revolt.

#45 chaddywack on 08.05.15 at 7:30 pm

I showed a guy at work this post. His response ‘China real estate is only tanking because they are selling there and buying Vancouver’

(He just bought a POS tear down in East Van for 946k on a 33′ lot. A ‘good investment’)

#46 Don Derc on 08.05.15 at 7:30 pm

2045

I’ve read this blog for almost 4 years – it’s one of the more intelligent conversations I can have these days.

But you have to remember folks this is what we voted for. When the usa got slammed in 08/09, both the yanks and the cdns fudged the whole shebang by printing money and artificially keeping interest rates low. We did not shout!

It seems everyone has had a sip of the Kool-Aid. Not only are cdns carrying heavy mortgage/personal debt, but so are municipal/prov/fed gov’ts too.

So we get to pay back our debt, and the debt created by the gov’ts. The voting ballots said so.

Friends – in reality we truly are not minding our own business.

I say Russia, India, and China will be the new superpowers in 30 years, not because of military muscle, but because we’re too broke fight. And they will dictate what we do with oil and water. Just like the Saudis and yanks did 7 months ago knocking oil down to $50/barrel. Not Canada’s choice.

Or perhaps in 30 years, Canada will be the last sane piece of real estate on the planet and we’ll see that massive immigrant influx into our country for the water, food, and McJobs that we’ll have to offer. And will we be able to handle that influx?

conspiracy #43 – usa only has enough natural resources to hold 500 million people.

What are the election issues that no one will talk about: middle east debacle? hardship on the middle class in 18 months when the rates take a final stranglehold? Did Chris jump or have a heart attack?

We aren’t inquiring minds any more.

2045 – yikes!

#47 Itinerant on 08.05.15 at 7:33 pm

“Tell your daughter you’re not financing her condo.”

Why not your son? Garth, your advice is good & sound. But seriously… it’s parents paying for houses for both kinds of kids. It’s not just daughters making miserable financial decisions & it’s not just mothers who need convincing about how buying a house isn’t the end all & be all. If anything (anecdote alert!) I know more men asking their parents for money / to co-sign a loan than women.

#48 Country Girl on 08.05.15 at 7:36 pm

Smoking Man for PM

#49 Tim on 08.05.15 at 7:36 pm

I have to laugh when people are afraid of the NDP being elected. Harper has pissed away the surplus left by the Liberals, created 6 deficits, presided over an increase in unemployment, and is now spending taxpayer s money by causing a long election just because he has a financial advantage. It would be nice to have someone in power who doesn’t tamper with the Fair Elections act, doesn’t ran through big Omnibus bills with no debate, and

#50 Van Isle Renter on 08.05.15 at 7:38 pm

Just got a phone call from a local truck dealer that I last spoke to over a year ago. He tried to hustle me on a “rare deal” that “almost never comes around”. I called bull$hit and hung up the phone.

Times are tough when these guys are trying work leads that are over a year old.

Oil price collapse is hitting hard Up Island as well.

#51 Tony on 08.05.15 at 7:40 pm

Re: #22 OttawaguyRenting on 08.05.15 at 6:30 pm

Ottawa and Montreal are seeing huge increases in the amount of housing for sale.

http://www.realtor.ca/Map.aspx#CultureId=1&ApplicationId=1&RecordsPerPage=9&MaximumResults=9&PropertyTypeId=300&TransactionTypeId=2&SortOrder=A&SortBy=1&LongitudeMin=-76.88671937609647&LongitudeMax=-72.54711976672147&LatitudeMin=44.680031470066766&LatitudeMax=46.27830056460472&PriceMin=0&PriceMax=0&BedRange=0-0&BathRange=0-0&ParkingSpaceRange=0-0&viewState=m&favouritelistingids=15430109,15691840&CurrentPage=1

#52 Chesty McToots on 08.05.15 at 7:41 pm

” At 75 cents it’s collapsed 20% against the US currency over the last two years and (as I mentioned recently) is forecast by Oppenheimer to lose another 14%. While this is good for exports ”

And…it could be time when the US markets have peaked and have already started to roll over….and this could be a time to buy CDN assets at the bottom instead of buying US assets at the peak…..buy low sell high…right? Lets face it….the damage has already been done.

The CDN Malaise might be attributed to the overburden of civil service costs weighing down the taxpayers.

BOC Gov Poloz fails to understand that we are not in the 1940’s and shovelling iron ore onto box cars anymore.

GET THIS….44% of Canadian exports are SERVICES. …finance…consulting…engineering…insurance…

The idea that crushing the $C will result in more exports…..stupid. The NDP and Libs in Ontario already dug that grave. There are no factories left to revive!!

What ‘44% of our exporters’ need is a stronger $C so that they aren’t receiving a pittance for the services they provide after they have to pay for the overhead in foreign currencies to operate around the world. Manufacturing ‘things’ in Canada is dead…the unions saw to that.

What Poloz is doing is exactly what happened the last two times the $C was kicked to the curb…and increase of sex tourists to Canada…and the Johns getting rides in the Rickshaws our boys are peddling. We are already seeing that.

What Poloz has done is too make it easier for foreign nationals to outbid Canadians out of their homes. Poloz is a clown….we are idiots for allowing him and his braintrust to remain on the job.

#53 sentry on 08.05.15 at 7:43 pm

….Never had an NDP government???Really,,we can show you the mop up required after 2 cycles of NDP in B.C….just a mess with huge debt racked up.What makes some people think it would be different at the federal level ??

#54 Smoking Man on 08.05.15 at 7:46 pm

Six months ago I did not believe it, but now I do. A dollar sub-70 cents is out there.-Garth
……

Stop listening to Economists…. And pay more attention to Herdonomics.

Everyone who reads this pathetic blog could have made well over a million bucks with only 54k in play had they listend to the Great Smoking Man in late Jun, on the USDCAD play…

Could have also lost 54k in a blink of an eye had BOC not cut again. But it was a certainty. Two aces on the flop, and two in hand. Those cards are only dealt mabey two times a year.

Just need to recognize it.

#55 Leo Trollstoy on 08.05.15 at 7:47 pm

Canadians will vote the NDP into power. Thanks for the history lesson Garth. Canadians were sheep back then and they’re sheep now. No matter how much things change, Canadians will be predictable.

Nice chart. Didn’t know gold had fallen so hard. I feel badly for people who have gold in their portfolio. I guess it’s their own fault. They were warned.

#56 Retired Boomer - WI on 08.05.15 at 7:48 pm

Yup. Ya got a hell of a mess up there. Commodities down especially oil. As oil goes so tracks our stock market not perfectly but it rhymes, doesn’t it?

Western states have water issues. CA is so dry they’re farting dust out there. They have sunk deeper wells but there is a limit! Our vegetable garden. Used to be NJ and much of northern IL. Now, a lot of it under housing developments.

We are rather a stupid people (all). Change will be happening, and accelerating! As has been stated here before SHIFT happens. Climate, international competition, tax policies, a lot to consider.

Your question: Who is MOST fit to rule?

I give the current admin a D.
There ARE other choices, but who has a track record, and in whom will you entrust? (you can always fire them later).

How many of your citizens are aware of the stakes, risks, and dangers?

While the government has a few problems, seems to me the Greatest Fools happen to be the Canadian Citizens. That Epic household DEBT is not government DEBT and they are not going to help you pay it off. Interest rates be damned, the debt honey is yours!

Big questions…

#57 Freedom First on 08.05.15 at 7:51 pm

#45 Itinerant

No. No you don’t. I don’t think you’ve ever met a Man.

#58 Jane Zimmerman on 08.05.15 at 7:55 pm

To Paul #37ou are so right. The NDP and Bob Rae were a disaster in Ontario. I think I heard of 75 tax increases and a 14% unemployment rate at that time.

Look at the CAW leadership of Buzz Hargrove and Ontario’s master liberal who never tells the truth.

They both attacked Harper back in 2007 with comments of we need a low Canadian dollar and low interest rates so the Bank of Canada should cut them alot. Buzz looked at Japan’s policies as a reference.

This was when the Bank of Canada rate was around 4.5%.

Now, we have a 75 cent low dollar and very low interest rates, 0.50% Bank of Canada rate, talk of QE in Canada, bond buying Canada bonds, a low 0.60%, 1.45%, 2.14%, 5, 10, 30 year bond yields probably lowest in history.

Guess who’s fault it is, Harper and conservatives. It is such lies and B.S. as they got what they wanted and it is not working.

#59 Muttley O'Toole on 08.05.15 at 7:56 pm

As a longtime, mostly silent,reader I think maybe Kinky Friedman was right:”It’s time to resign from the human race”.

#60 ronh on 08.05.15 at 7:57 pm

In other words: Downward Economic Spiral
The hurt will be epic.

#61 Renter's Revenge! on 08.05.15 at 7:58 pm

Well, at least the real estate market in Winnipeg is dead. No one seems to be talking about investing in houses anymore, thank god. With after-opportunity cost, after-expenses rental yields at $(18-21-3-3)k/$300k = -3%, why bother?

Meanwhile in the Williston Basin, the Richardsons are still buying oil wells in southwestern Manitoba through Tundra Oil and Gas from bankrupt operators that paid too much for the assets given their yield. Smart people. The Richardsons, that is.

#62 Nagraj on 08.05.15 at 7:58 pm

a mote it is to trouble the mind’s eye – but “in 1958 when John Diefenbaker buried Lester Pearson” aint quite right, it’s the other way around actually

there can be no doubt whatsoever that the author of the above-quoted error was and is CONSCIOUSLY perfectly aware that Dief as Prime Minister PRECEDED Pearson

but his UNCONSCIOUS, perhaps for reasons not too hard to deduce, pulled yet another (and a real doozy too) PARAPRAXIS stunt on the hapless man

may I yet again recommend “The Psychopathology of Everyday Life” published in 1901

for what it’s worth – Nagraj personally believes that parapraxis (in this case word-exchange error) is to some degree contagious, especially re malapropisms and spoonerisms

NOW I shall check with Wikipedia and if I’m wrong I shall write a short apology and then proceed to die of embarrassment

#63 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 8:00 pm

#44 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 7:29 pm

Tell me more about these toxins that are being added to our water supply?

I have been working in the industry for years and am still trying to find the secret room where all of these mind controlling toxins are added.

#64 Willy2 on 08.05.15 at 8:02 pm

Seems the FED is able to foll the entire pack. The FED is NOT going to raise interest rates anytime soon.

There’s one GOOD chart that will tell when the FED is going to raise rates. If the value of the $IRX comes above 2,50 (or 2.50) then the FED will raise rates. Not any time sooner.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$IRX&p=D&b=5&g=0&id=0

#65 Rural Rick on 08.05.15 at 8:07 pm

If we want change NDP is the only chance we have. Libs and Cons are so old school. Their political machines are well greased with kickbacks, graft and bribes not to mention favours owed. A NDP government would make some rookie mistakes but how could we have a worse mess than Steve left us. Also you don’t need a majority government if your proposals make sense. Only those governments with unpalatable bills need a majority.

#66 Gulf Breeze on 08.05.15 at 8:09 pm

#14 Andres,

I’ll be voting NDP, so don’t get me wrong here. The provincial NDP in B.C. governed like real knuckleheads back in the day. Their ‘tax the evil corporations’ out of existence was kind of well…stupid.

Increasing income tax not so bad, creating a higher minimum wage–good. Compassion for the masses and particularly those who really suffer. Wonderful. But when you send corporations scurrying out of the province, that’s job loss and that’s nuts.

Many of the provincial NDP regimes were like laboratories for failed politics. I am sure Mulcair isn’t going to make the same obvious mistakes. I am betting on it.

#67 Steph on 08.05.15 at 8:24 pm

This what they call a Kabuki dance…

They all know what the outcome is.

Sit back, relax and enjoy the show :)

#68 jess on 08.05.15 at 8:27 pm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-03/microsoft-s-offshore-profit-pile-surges-past-100-billion-mark

challenges to the Internal Revenue Service – transfer pricing/ intracompany transactions and tech et al
U.S. companies have more than $2 trillion amassed outside the U.S., according to a Bloomberg News review earlier this year of the securities filings of 304 companies.

#69 Smoking Man on 08.05.15 at 8:29 pm

#48 Country Girl on 08.05.15 at 7:36 pm
Smoking Man for PM
…..

Not sure this resident alien from Nectonite will qualify.
It pays sub human wages, who in there right mind would take that job.

Plus at the Fed level, machine runs the show regardless of the party.

Now Ontario is doomed, we are all passengers on the Wynee canoe, heading toward the falls.

“Hey Kathleen we’re heading toward the falls, don’t you think we should change course. ”

” Shit up simpleton, I know what I’m doing, I’m a teacher and I have degrees. Now be quite and enjoy the ride you homophobic Neanderthal.”

#70 Pump and Dump on 08.05.15 at 8:32 pm

#54 Smoking Man on 08.05.15 at 7:46 pm

Likely that the more obedient dogs on this pathetic blog jumped in and ‘listened’ when you pumped BBD a few months ago. With the heavy losses they incurred, hard to imagine how they feel watching you tossing out yet another new bone at them.

#71 Conservative Compliment on 08.05.15 at 8:32 pm

Credit where credit is due. It is honourable the Harper Government has stuck with a pre-determined election date. If they should lose I hope the next government doesn’t toss the set election date puppy out with the bath water.

In real life the one being tested doesn’t get to choose when and on what they are to be tested. Government should be the same and it is under Harper. This is a good thing.

Will there or won’t there be an election as in the past was a poor way to govern.

#72 gut check on 08.05.15 at 8:34 pm

Our culture is sick and dying.

EXHIBIT A :

“#36 Freedom First on 08.05.15 at 6:57 pm
…..when the economy sucked this hard. Pure Garth. Hilarious and true at the same time.

I used to try and teach people at one time, but I gave up. Today, this is the only place I talk about anything financial or matrimonial. Too much flak in telling the truth.

Had to let my girlfriend of 7 months go this week. She came clean about her financial problems. Too bad, 13 years younger, slim, pretty. That’s ok. I always remember to put my Freedom First. Never forget, “no wife=happy life.””

You see that there ^^ ? That’s what this person believes is success. Yeah! Let’s have more of THAT!

#73 saskatoon on 08.05.15 at 8:34 pm

#66 Gulf Breeze

you don’t want job losses, but you want higher minimum wage?

THIS is nuts.

economics 101: supply and demand.

#74 Steve French on 08.05.15 at 8:35 pm

“For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes.

So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.”

– James 1:11

#75 Lorne on 08.05.15 at 8:36 pm

53 sentry on 08.05.15 at 7:43 pm
….Never had an NDP government???Really,,we can show you the mop up required after 2 cycles of NDP in B.C….just a mess with huge debt racked up.What makes some people think it would be different at the federal level ??
……..
What makes some people believe that our present government deserves to mess us up even more than they have done???

#76 gut check on 08.05.15 at 8:44 pm

@ #63 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 8:00 pm
#44 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 7:29 pm

Tell me more about these toxins that are being added to our water supply?

I have been working in the industry for years and am still trying to find the secret room where all of these mind controlling toxins are added.”
_______________________________

What industry? Water treatment? You’ve heard of fluoride, right?

Fluoride is bad for humans. up until a year or two after Harper became PM you could read a lengthy Health Canada report about it online.

Completely out in the open – no hidden rooms at all. Why would they bother, when they’ve got the majority trained to believe that the government is here to help and would never do anything contrary to that?

#77 Daisy Mae on 08.05.15 at 8:45 pm

“It’ll be a really lousy time to win this election.”

***********************

So…if Harper wins with his underhanded tactics ’cause that’s the only way he WILL win…he’ll have a lousy time of it going forward.

Talk about poetic justice. ;-)

#78 Nagraj on 08.05.15 at 8:46 pm

NAGRAJ SPEAKS FROM HIS GRAVE

Yes indeed Dief buried Liberal leader Pearson in 1958 (not PM Pearson, as I’d misinterpreted Garth’s sentence).

#79 Nora Lenderby on 08.05.15 at 8:49 pm

#17 MSM-Free Zone on 08.05.15 at 6:20 pm
“….vitriol spewing from the steerage section of this blog…..”
_________________________

Define ‘..steerage section..’.

It’s the nautical equivalent of basement dwellers. With the added bonuses of the joy of puking in the dark and the distinct possibility of drowning when the ship goes down.

#80 saskatoon on 08.05.15 at 8:55 pm

#63 OttawaMike

there is no secret room.

you’ve obviously had too much NaF.

#81 Ex-Cowtown on 08.05.15 at 8:56 pm

“We are rather a stupid people (all). Change will be happening, and accelerating! As has been stated here before SHIFT happens. Climate, international competition, tax policies, a lot to consider.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It’s only Climate Change if you want to tax the crap out of somebody. Otherwise its just the weather.

#82 BS on 08.05.15 at 8:57 pm

“God help us all if its a NDP majority!!”

Why? We’ve never had one before, so we cant possibly know whether it’ll be good or bad. All I personally can see is that what we currently have is awful.

Yes, it is not like voting in the NDP could turn Canada into a financial disaster like Greece. That would take at least two NDP terms to do.

#83 David on 08.05.15 at 8:58 pm

I was not yet born when Dief made a surge in the late 1950’s. But for my parents generation of voters it was a case of kicking out a totally arrogant Liberal government that had been in power for 22 years and discredited themselves on the pipeline debate. A fervent outsider from Saskatchewan sunk the chilly board room Liberals.
It wasnt a mild recession that won for Diefenbaker.

#84 Sheane Wallace on 08.05.15 at 8:59 pm

Six months ago I did not believe it, but now I do. A dollar sub-70 cents is out there.
————————–
Well you need to believe me Garth.

CAD in the .4x range (<0.50)is in the cards. We will get there.

Even gold (the horror!) looks better than CAD.

#85 Paul on 08.05.15 at 8:59 pm

#66 Many of the provincial NDP regimes were like laboratories for failed politics. I am sure Mulcair isn’t going to make the same obvious mistakes. I am betting on it.
——————————————————————-
Man that comment was worth the price of admission !
Mulcair and obvious mistakes lol. They are cut from the same pale green cloth!!

#86 anotherstabbinginsaskatoon on 08.05.15 at 8:59 pm

No rate raise. QE infinitum. Yellen is Bernanke in a dress.

#87 Oceanside on 08.05.15 at 9:00 pm

From the Victoria Times-Colonist

Joe, president of the Asian Real Estate Association’s Vancouver Island chapter, said many Chinese families are moving here from the Lower Mainland, often attracted by the quality of schools here and the chance for their children to be immersed in a largely English-speaking environment. They may keep their home in Vancouver and buy here in the $600,000 to $800,000 range.

#88 sam on 08.05.15 at 9:00 pm

headline: http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/08/05/unsold-condo-inventory-drops-in-face-of-strong-demand.html

#89 Nora Lenderby on 08.05.15 at 9:02 pm

I think the Great Bearded One (not you Mr. T, the other guy) is going to win very handily.

My advice to GBO would be to legalize drugs, let the provinces sell them in special stores, tax it quite heavily. I am sure that we can make money by undercutting the various idiots that are shooting one another in our larger cities.

We can probably gradually free up a large section of our overpaid law’n’ enforcement sector and allow them to take up full-time grass-cutting.

Invite in 100,000 Syrian refugees in addition to the normal immigrants.

Stuff like that. You know where to find me, O GBO.

#90 Karma on 08.05.15 at 9:02 pm

“Austrian Economics Mighy Explain China’s Turmoil”

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-05/austrian-economics-might-explain-china-s-turmoil

#91 bigtown on 08.05.15 at 9:04 pm

At the end of the 1970’s Montreal was up for sale. The rents downtown were so low and so much vacancy. Old Montreal was very quiet and not developed yet. Montreal had taken on that patina European cities have of being shabby and chic. The immigration was very low with little new investment. It was really missing a lot of that 20th century business that had decamped to Toronto.

It is hard to imagine Toronto having that washout kind of experience. Of course, many American cities of better fabric and history have lost a lot of their shine. The Toronto story has been selling now for decades. Pretty much the same unending boom town narrative sells the same message of Planet Canada for all.

Really seems a stretch that the Toronto story could turn out to be anything but the best case scenario for the new immigrant.

#92 BS on 08.05.15 at 9:14 pm

Increasing income tax not so bad, creating a higher minimum wage–good. Compassion for the masses and particularly those who really suffer. Wonderful. But when you send corporations scurrying out of the province, that’s job loss and that’s nuts.

Increasing income tax sends the well educated high wager earners scurrying out of country. Like it did with doctors in BC when the NDP were in power. We got to keep the construction workers and baristas though. They can’t leave.

Creating higher minimum wage at the federal level is irrelevant. Nobody makes minimum wage at ports, rail roads or grain terminals which are pretty much the only industries the federal labour code applies to.

Sending corporations out of country is worse than sending them out of province. I guess the ones planning on exiting Alberta now will just head south.

A federal NDP will be just like the ones in BC’s past. Just at a larger scale. The poor didn’t gain anything under the BC NDP nor the Ontario NDP. The only ones who gained where provincial government workers who got raises (but probably paid most if it back in taxes). Taxes went up but net tax revenue decreased under the NDP. That’s what happens when high wage earners and corporations leave. As bad as you think are under the Cons, NPD policy will make it worse.

#93 AK on 08.05.15 at 9:15 pm

•Commodities will be too cheap to pass up. But not yet.
——————————————————————
TCK.B @ $9.21 looks very appealing. Hard to time an absolute bottom, but may be a time to start nibbling.

#94 TRT on 08.05.15 at 9:16 pm

Good to see you came to your senses Garth.

Here is the scenario to get rich:

-2) buy YVR real estate.

-1) sell YVR real estate.

0) put money in Orange man shorts. Convert to USD.

1) stay in USD cash until 1 week after first fed hike.

2) plow your money into Euros — cash.

3) wait.

4) bring money back into Canada and go all in energy.

5) retire.

6) Garth asks me to work for his firm.

#95 polecat on 08.05.15 at 9:17 pm

Starting to fell like 1993 again. Sorry, I’m ony so old. Marine engineering diploma , applying at Tim’s. Did get a gig at sea after 6 mnths but 3 years later layoff. Joined military, hard days but won’t look back. No politician but will serve you all at home(floods, fires, ice) and abroad, (Bosnia, Africa, Afghanistan). Really all I have, to be an insuarance policy for this land. I will be there for you, in Garth we trust.

#96 let her go? on 08.05.15 at 9:17 pm

#36 Freedom First on 08.05.15 at 6:57 pm

Let her go? You’re always posting about helping people, what happened? How could she get into debt in Lillooet? With only a liquor store, gas station and a bakery, imagine what would happen with the bright lights of Vancouver.

I live in a similar manner but to post about it makes one look sad and maladjusted. Best to keep it to yourself or those other blogs on the “Manosphere”

Garth’s advice is good for those of us who didn’t buy a house before the bubble, but I’m sure sorry to miss out on the million or so in tax free gains from buying in YVR a few years ago. I probably would have lost my nerve and flogged the house a few years ago though.

#97 TRT on 08.05.15 at 9:18 pm

Regarding the election. Harper will win.

The Corporate Machine will make sure of that. They are popularizing Mulcair at the expense of Trudeau. They will love it if Libs and NDP get equal vote.

#98 anotherstabbinginsaskatoon on 08.05.15 at 9:18 pm

The downturn in Saskatoon is more than evident. Oil is finished its bear run. Oil sub $40 for the next generation. Speculation is rampant in this part of the country. Auto salesmen making 5 g’s a month are done. Half the population here seem to be tweekers. The other half are university students. 3500 layoffs in manufacturing in Sk and we hear zip from our ‘leadership'(Speculators). The glut of houses is monstrous. The sea of condos reconverted back to rentals is astounding. Renting for the past 15 years has turned me into a force. I’m a Nietzschean. Pain and suffering has been my greatest investment. Thanks you Neo Con bastards. I’m finally a Ubermensch. West side! Do ya hizzle my drizzle ya blizzles?

#99 Randy Randerson on 08.05.15 at 9:22 pm

I received an email from my Scotiabank’s small business advisor, which never happens since I have no need to step foot my branch. He politely reminded me that I need to deposit 3% of my outstanding overdraft facilities to meet the condition of the revolving LOC condition.

In the past 4-5 years that I’ve had this LOC, I have never received any emails or reminders. I wonder if the banks are slowly clamping down on people borrowing their brains out, and gradually reduce their outstanding loans.

#100 DON on 08.05.15 at 9:28 pm

#5 Sideshow Rob on 08.05.15 at 5:44 pm

oops hit send too fast.

“It’ll be a really lousy time to win this election. You were right. They’re all nuts.”

Agreed. Whomever wins should demand a recount. Canada is a mess. Not to blame the current government, This disaster is a global phenomenon. The commodity collapse could not have been prevented no matter who is in power. China’s slowdown is going to impact every country. Canada will endure…unless the dippers get power

******************************

I can blame the current gov for not diversifying the economy and applying balance to their policies. Garth preaches diversity and balance guess they don’t care to read his blog. Not like no one saw it coming!

#101 SWL1976 on 08.05.15 at 9:28 pm

There’s no easy way outta this mess that’s for sure. We’ve been sold out over the years by greasy politicians with questionable morals begging for a seat at the globalist table.

A true leader can walk amongst their people and be greeted with respect, they would not be concerned with fear of attack.

All the security and motorcades we see surrounding our current ‘leaders’ speaks volumes about them, not the people they serve.

If voting made a difference they wouldn’t let us do it – Mark Twain

I think collectively our gracious host and all of us blog dogs who take the time to contribute here could do a much better job running the country than anyone we’re allowed to vote for.

We might not all agree, but that’s the beauty of true democracy.

Who wants to be surrounded by yes men anyways?

That’s right… The man who’s currently trying to buy or votes and has been sinking this ship

#102 Steerage people count too on 08.05.15 at 9:35 pm

#78 Nagraj on 08.05.15 at 8:46 pm
NAGRAJ SPEAKS FROM HIS GRAVE

Yes indeed Dief buried Liberal leader Pearson in 1958 (not PM Pearson, as I’d misinterpreted Garth’s sentence)
———

Epic crow!

It’s a fair bet the host is only too aware of past epic landslides!!

#103 anotherstabbinginsaskatoon on 08.05.15 at 9:35 pm

DELETED

#104 Drill Baby Drill on 08.05.15 at 9:36 pm

If the NDP win then look out for inflation. If you think you have inflation now(and we do) wait until the commie pinkos take over. We are not in a good position right now as a country and the last thing we need is to tear ourselves apart by a tax and spend government. The PC’s have kept our deficit relatively low over the years but the NDP will spike it and no foreign investor will touch our hewers of wood and drawers of water economy.

#105 gut check on 08.05.15 at 9:42 pm

@ #91 bigtown

One thing Montreal had that Toronto doesn’t have: Rene Levesque.

I think he single-handedly shabbied the chic outta Morayal.

#106 Estrella on 08.05.15 at 9:44 pm

#34 Blobby.

pLeAsE do not mention a NDP majority! Ontario had one once, and the horror of it I can still feel today. AvOiD At ALL CoStS!! I say the best we can hope for is a Conservative Minority. That we we can blame them all .

#107 gut check on 08.05.15 at 9:47 pm

.
.
RIGHT ON #101.
.
.

#108 Rural Rick on 08.05.15 at 9:51 pm

#32 Blobby on 08.05.15 at 6:47 pm
Bob Rae got handed poop on a stick when he defended Ontarians from Mike Harris. The money was all spent and the bills were coming due. You have to admit this is an election to lose. It is a cycle. Rinse repeat.

#109 DON on 08.05.15 at 9:54 pm

#53 sentry on 08.05.15 at 7:43 pm

….Never had an NDP government???Really,,we can show you the mop up required after 2 cycles of NDP in B.C….just a mess with huge debt racked up.What makes some people think it would be different at the federal level ?

************************

I call bullshit here…those NDP govs left BC with a surplus. The BC liberals (CONS in liberal clothing – the leader attends Harpers Con conventions no the national liberals). We have had 14 years of increased debt, corruption in privatizing public assets. We are currently waiting for a promised trillion dollar (norway account and a 100,000 jobs from the dead LNG market). Get your facts straight and stop the bull.

I much prefer to elect local independents. We export raw logs, so much for our milling industry. BC is a banana republic who is trying to do business with the Malaysian PM. Check out Norm Farrell’s blog, or the commonsense canadian, or the Powell river persuader. I only need the Province or vancouver sun for fire starter.

#110 DON on 08.05.15 at 10:04 pm

#75 Lorne on 08.05.15 at 8:36 pm

53 sentry on 08.05.15 at 7:43 pm
….Never had an NDP government???Really,,we can show you the mop up required after 2 cycles of NDP in B.C….just a mess with huge debt racked up.What makes some people think it would be different at the federal level ??
……..
What makes some people believe that our present government deserves to mess us up even more than they have done???
*******************************

Stupidity?…Ignorance?…Shamlessness? Umm Election Trolls who are ideology driven no matter what the circumstances??

First we had to deal with Real estate trolls…now we have to deal with election trolls. Minority governments work the best because you need collaboration to ram through destructive policies.

#111 Andrew Woburn on 08.05.15 at 10:04 pm

Cracks in the facade? Is Saudi Arabia in deep Shiite?

“Saudi Arabia plans $27bn in bond issues”

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/e9e197fe-3b5d-11e5-8613-07d16aad2152.html#axzz3hzfNyMYn

#112 DON on 08.05.15 at 10:07 pm

#76 gut check on 08.05.15 at 8:44 pm

@ #63 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 8:00 pm
#44 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 7:29 pm

Tell me more about these toxins that are being added to our water supply?

I have been working in the industry for years and am still trying to find the secret room where all of these mind controlling toxins are added.”
_______________________________

What industry? Water treatment? You’ve heard of fluoride, right?

Fluoride is bad for humans. up until a year or two after Harper became PM you could read a lengthy Health Canada report about it online.

Completely out in the open – no hidden rooms at all. Why would they bother, when they’ve got the majority trained to believe that the government is here to help and would never do anything contrary to that?
********************

But but…9 of 10 dentist recommend fluoride. Just don’t ingest it. The herd cares not to watch out for themselves.

#113 Estrella on 08.05.15 at 10:08 pm

I am really quite stunned at the amount of NDP support in the comment section.

If you wish to help the economy you do not vote for the NDP. If you do you will lose your jobs, your money, and the shirt off your back if you don’t watch out. That all, real simply..

Business and NDP, == mix Like ==OIL and WATER. Please remember that when you stare at your ballot!

Employers dont have to take what NDP wants to dish out. Employers pack up and leave. That all in a nutshell. Gonna start and exit strategy before this disaster strikes.

#114 Leo Trollstoy on 08.05.15 at 10:11 pm

f the NDP win then look out for inflation. If you think you have inflation now(and we do) wait until the commie pinkos take over.

I agree.

Inflation is getting worse in Canada. If the NDP get a majority it’ll be fun to see what happens.

I know who the will be voted out in the next election after the Canadian economy is left in ruins.

#115 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 10:13 pm

There’s blogging then there’s #Instagramming.
H to the izzo? Dueling Axes.
https://instagram.com/tonyclementcpc/

#116 Leo Trollstoy on 08.05.15 at 10:15 pm

Auto salesmen making 5 g’s a month are done.

Not yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/business/pickup-trucks-power-canadian-auto-sales-to-177-844-in-july-1.3179198

#117 DON on 08.05.15 at 10:16 pm

#76 gut check on 08.05.15 at 8:44 pm

@ #63 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 8:00 pm
#44 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 7:29 pm

Tell me more about these toxins that are being added to our water supply?

I have been working in the industry for years and am still trying to find the secret room where all of these mind controlling toxins are added.”
_______________________________

What industry? Water treatment? You’ve heard of fluoride, right?

Fluoride is bad for humans. up until a year or two after Harper became PM you could read a lengthy Health Canada report about it online.

Completely out in the open – no hidden rooms at all. #104 Drill Baby Drill on 08.05.15 at 9:36 pm

If the NDP win then look out for inflation. If you think you have inflation now(and we do) wait until the commie pinkos take over. We are not in a good position right now as a country and the last thing we need is to tear ourselves apart by a tax and spend government. The PC’s have kept our deficit relatively low over the years but the NDP will spike it and no foreign investor will touch our hewers of wood and drawers of water economy

*******************

Inflation is already upon us – some people’s grown up children. How did the PCs do in Alberta. If they did such a good job how did they get extinguished so easily. They are to blame for the next couple of years. The spin is stupidity. Blame Baby Blame!

#118 DON on 08.05.15 at 10:17 pm

#101 SWL1976 on 08.05.15 at 9:28 pm

Agreed – this blog should start a party = at least there would be debate.

#119 Andrew on 08.05.15 at 10:19 pm

Canadian exports went up 6.3% in June. The longer the Canadian dollar stays low, the more exports will go up which will cause the economy to improve. The low Canadian dollar will pull Canada out of recession.

The race to the bottom. — Garth

#120 Godth on 08.05.15 at 10:25 pm

#89 Nora Lenderby on 08.05.15 at 9:02 pm

I don’t think the CIA and the Hell’s Angels would appreciate the competition.

#101 SWL1976 on 08.05.15 at 9:28 pm

I was just talking to a CSIS guy (ex JTF2) the other day. I mentioned that I thought bill C 52 was crazy, mistake. Lightening bolts pierced my optical nerves from his. Nice guy flips in the blink of an eye. Scary, but nobody was injured (that would have been me).

I have a new level of respect for democracy. It sucks but the alternative…approaches – the darkness, The Darkness!

#121 Freedom First on 08.05.15 at 10:25 pm

#72 gut check

Yes. Thank you! You are right. Our culture is sick and dying. That is exactly why I put my own Freedom First.

#122 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 10:25 pm

#89 Nora Lenderby on 08.05.15 at 9:02 pm

Legalize drugs? Are you on drugs?

Look what happened in Portugal when they tried that:

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/29118-portugal-cut-addiction-rates-in-half-by-connecting-drug-users-with-communities-instead-of-jailing-them

#123 Bottoms_Uo on 08.05.15 at 10:27 pm

#14 Andres on 08.05.15 at 6:13 pm
————————————
We hear this about the NDP because big money knows an NDP government is going to cost them. They control the message so they can say whatever they want.

#124 Gulf Breeze on 08.05.15 at 10:30 pm

#73 Saskatoon.

Higher minimum wage is a direct cash spigot into the productive economy. That creates jobs. Without this action money pools into stagnant ponds or blows asset bubbles. We need more money circulating outside of the FIRE arena.

Besides, it’s indecent in the modern age that anybody should work for peanuts. There’s no lack of money out there.

Small business owners who bemoan the effects of a rising minimum wage are thinking small. If the only way they can make a profit is by underpaying their employees, they should consider other options.

Social Darwinist, small minded business owners who want the law of the jungle to apply to everyone but them, will meet their Waterloo, eventually. Or…their own Serengeti on the leveling plain of a much higher minimum wage.

#125 Andrew Woburn on 08.05.15 at 10:30 pm

87 Oceanside on 08.05.15 at 9:00 pm
From the Victoria Times-Colonist

Joe, president of the Asian Real Estate Association’s Vancouver Island chapter, said many Chinese families are moving here from the Lower Mainland, often attracted by the quality of schools here and the chance for their children to be immersed in a largely English-speaking environment. They may keep their home in Vancouver and buy here in the $600,000 to $800,000 range.
====================

Does a realtor really distinguish between”many” and “a few” when commissions are on the line.

As far as I know, lessons are still taught in English in Richmond schools. When I lived there, I noticed that when I passed Chinese-Canadian school children in the street, they were usually chatting in flawless, unaccented Canadian English. Has that changed?

#126 Patiently Waiting on 08.05.15 at 10:33 pm

Haven’t posted here is some time, but couldn’t resist when I saw this Province article on Chinese money laundering in Vancouver/Toronto. Now that the cat is out of the bag, and the Chinese economy is headed south (pending government intervention which will delay the inevitable but ultimately fail), I wonder how long it will be before the grossly inflated Vancouver housing market finally plummets back to earth … if I was one of those highly leveraged in YVR I would hit the sell button before the exits get crowded …

pw

http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Chinese+money+launderers+snap+Vancouver+real+estate+because+lenient+border+laws+loose+regulations/11262931/story.html

#127 BT on 08.05.15 at 10:35 pm

Turner for P.M.!

#128 Bottoms_Uo on 08.05.15 at 10:39 pm

#24 OttawaguyRenting on 08.05.15 at 6:30 pm
————————————————–
Sales up 5% 1st half of this year over last. 8% for SFHs. Prices up 2%. Employment numbers and earnings stable. The resale market is in balanced territory. These stats are available via CMHC website, as well as OREB.

#129 John on 08.05.15 at 10:41 pm

#61 Renter’s Revenge!
Lately my friends and co-workers in Winnipeg have been saying things like “You’re smart to still be renting. Owning a house is so expensive!”

Big change from just 2 or 3 years ago when someone’s jaw would hit the fool when I told them I DON”T plan to buy a house or condo in the next five years. Or people posting a picture of their brand new condo on Facebook and saying it was a “good investment”.

Now, if they only knew how big my investment portfolio
is, they would really think I am smart!

#130 Freedom First on 08.05.15 at 10:41 pm

#96 let her go

It’s ok. Smoking Man has taught me we’re all family here. Garth too. We even talk about our puppies and Amazons here. Now those we love.

#131 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 10:42 pm

#63 OttawaMike

Sure, look at the material safety data sheets for Chlorine and fluoride.
Or something like this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2011/07/08/lake_of_shame_ontarios_pollution_problem.html

You’ll not see cancer rates drop in our lifetime. Suggest you read the first few chapters of this book.
You’ve been living for how many years and seen how many cases of it?

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-War-Cancer/dp/0465015689/ref=sr_1_1?

#132 Lee on 08.05.15 at 10:49 pm

No. 122,

Have you ever been to Vancouver. Not many sfhs there’s. If even 1000 immigrants a year from around the world want in that would make a huge dent in the market of maybe 5000 sales a year. Prices are going nowhere but up or sideways. Have fun waiting for the crash. Garth will be old and grey and you’ll still be waiting.

#133 Godth on 08.05.15 at 10:50 pm

#111 Andrew Woburn on 08.05.15 at 10:04 pm

Saudi Arabia is in deep Sunni, they’re investing in sunshine for the future apparently.

Speaking of Wahabism, why is an ex. JTF2 continuously trying to convince me that Iran (Shiite) is funding ISIS (Sunni)? The guy insists there’s a difference between Sunni and Shia (of course I agree) but then insists the inverse of reality. Very strange as he’s been putting his life on the line and is now tasked with protecting us from “the bad guys” booga – booga.

Too much Fox news or just a typical Canadian product? The anger gets too intense before a rational conversation can take place. Scary.

#134 chapter 9 on 08.05.15 at 10:50 pm

#34 Blobby
“God help us all if it’s an NDP majority!!.Why? we’ve never had one before——–

“We’re forced—-whether we like it or not—to turn to the state–so that the poor have more to spend, and the rich have less to save”.”Not one- to worry about the national debt.”

Pierre Trudeau made that statement. The father of big government,big debts, and big deficits. Pierre was an NDP’er on steroids! Canadians have experienced a socialist government at the federal level and we are still to this day paying dearly for the Trudeau years.

#135 Retired Boomer - WI on 08.05.15 at 10:54 pm

Question?

If a newly elected government decided to CUT allocated spending by 8%……. would the electorate be inclined to try and ‘cut’ their household spending (perhaps by investing it) by a similar amount?

OK ., maybe 8% was too stiff, let us say 4% or maybe 5%??

If you CAN NOT find 4%in your household numbers, WHY would you think the local, provincial, or Federal government could find it in theirs?

Give it a Think ….for a nanosecond.

#136 espressobob on 08.05.15 at 10:58 pm

Commodities will be too cheap to pass up. But not yet.

…………………………………………………………………………..

Waiting patiently for further downside in the TSX composite over time could prove profitable in a Global portfolio. Owning individual stocks in this index present much risk.

Most have no exit strategy on the upside which hinders outperformance compared to their benchmark.

The index wins.

#137 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 10:59 pm

#76 gut check on 08.05.15 at 8:44 pm

Fluoride is bad for humans. up until a year or two after Harper became PM you could read a lengthy Health Canada report about it online.

Completely out in the open – no hidden rooms at all. Why would they bother, when they’ve got the majority trained to believe that the government is here to help and would never do anything contrary to that?
———————————————————-

The anti fluoride lobby is a non credible group of whacky activists. Concentrations of fluoride in Ontario DW are regulated at 1.5 Parts Per Million(PPM). Do you really think there is a conspiracy to add “poison” to everybody’s water supply?
Is fluoride still necessary? Probably not as there are now other sources out there and dental professionals apply fluoride treatments. Plebiscites are required in each jurisdiction to stop fluoridation just as they were to begin it, hence the slow rate of discontinuation. The dental profession still strongly supports Fluoridation.

We also use high strength sulphuric acid, caustic soda, alum and silicate to settle out the impurities from water, none of these remain in the final product other than chlorine/ammonia the disinfection agent at .5-2 PPM.

Some of you need to travel to India or Haiti to see how contaminated drinking water really kills/looks like and then you would worry about more important things here.

#138 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 11:07 pm

#131 TurnerNation on 08.05.15 at 10:42 pm

Cancer rates?

Everybody is living longer than ever in human history. of course cancer rates are sky rocketing. Nobody is dying in child birth or by getting bucked off the horse on the way to the general store. Even auto crash deaths are down sharply compared to 25 years ago.

It only makes sense that cancer rates are higher as people stick around.

#139 Lorne on 08.05.15 at 11:07 pm

#82 BS
Yes, it is not like voting in the NDP could turn Canada into a financial disaster like Greece. That would take at least two NDP terms to do.
……
Just like Canada! Greece was governed by the right wingers….now the left wingers are in and trying to clean things up!

#140 Lorne on 08.05.15 at 11:14 pm

#104 Drill Baby Drill on 08.05.15 at 9:36 pm
If the NDP win then look out for inflation. If you think you have inflation now(and we do) wait until the commie pinkos take over.
……
You are, of course, aware that as soon as you use the term “commie pinkos”, you totally discredit anything you say.

#141 Smoking Man on 08.05.15 at 11:15 pm

Retirement, I’m into day 3.. It sucks..

Mrs Smoking Man is driving me nuts, paint the fence, let’s go to senica, cut the grass, let’s go to senica.

Look my woman, I have 50 fans waiting for a book, let me focus, finish. I can afford a contractor.

You’re just trying to get out of real work she says.

I’m writing a book damn it I said which sends her off to fits of laughter..

Get back to work, you can’t write.

The phyco is not happy if I’m not out side breaking a sweat..

Blue collar parents is what I’m thinking. Men must sweat or its not work. She’s old school…

This is my delema.

#142 Turtle on 08.05.15 at 11:17 pm

RE: Federal Election

The way Harper attacks Justin is not cool. This is how a small dog barks at a bigger one: “He is not ready”, “He is not ready”…. Seriously…. I don’t get that. Not ready for what? To rule as a Harper? How can you screw up the economy of such a prosperous country so much so fast and than tell other ones “they are not ready”?

Funny thing… there was one guy in Alberta telling people “Look in a mirror”, kind of the same way Harper does, and we all know how it ended.

So, the way it goes – Justin is gaining his votes. I don’t think at expense of Tom. He is saved. After Alberta’s elections it should be clear to everyone. Justin is taking his votes from Harper.

I don’t see any colossal victory, but I see a colossal loss for Harper. Maybe he’ll get 10%. His only hope to stay in politics and being heard is an even split 45% – 45% between LIB and NDP.

And maybe it will be the best outcome of the Elections – no Harper and even split on top. I would vote for that.

#143 Squirrel meat on 08.05.15 at 11:19 pm

#139 Smoking Man on 08.05.15 at 11:15 pm
Retirement, I’m into day 3.. It sucks..

Mrs Smoking Man is driving me nuts, paint the fence, let’s go to senica, cut the grass, let’s go to senica.
——-
Day 4- start drinking.

#144 Steerage Stooge on 08.05.15 at 11:20 pm

“So part one of the thesis is that the Canadian economy will probably fall further in the next few months, and could well (if history means anything, plus the vitriol spewing from the steerage section of this blog) result in political instability. Garth”

Hey Garth, here is some vitriol sci-fi from the steerage section…….

It’s 2017 and the Canadian economy totally collapses resulting in a coup d’état takes. The new regime calls a snap election to establish credibility and garners 99% of the vote(since they were counting)

They then peg the real estate prices at high rates and invite foreign investors to snap up these “bargains”.

Economically depressed parts of the country start to ramble on about separating, led by none other than Ontario…unfortunately, the only countries willing to have them are Mexico, and Greece.

Meanwhile, shortages of all kinds of food products results in rationing of everything from lettuce to tooth paste and toilet paper. An entire generation ends up with bad teeth and stinky bottoms…kind of the like the UK after WW2.

Meanwhile, President Trump decides to build the world’s longest wall to keep the great unwashed northerners from flooding the country….Smoking Man can finish this off for me…getting thirsty for a single malt….

#145 MF on 08.05.15 at 11:25 pm

“Commodities will be too cheap to pass up. But not yet.”

This caught my eye.

Looking forward to hearing about the green light.

MF

#146 mousey on 08.05.15 at 11:28 pm

Dear Dogs,
Any thoughts on the “Carbon Bubble” by Jeff Rubin? I’m just into the first chapter, but basic theme is Harper’s narrow minded economic strategy (oil, oil, oil) has failed and we need to diversify into….not sure, but hopefully that will be in the next few chapters. So far, a pretty interesting read, despite being written by an economist.

#147 Mark on 08.05.15 at 11:39 pm

“Waiting patiently for further downside in the TSX composite over time could prove profitable in a Global portfolio. Owning individual stocks in this index present much risk.”

Of course making predictions has made a fool out of many over the years. But the TSX cyclicals have been pounded to smithereens, and they tend to display evidence of an upturn even before an upturn in the economy actually happens.

Additionally, for components that have a USA export component, CAD$ currency depreciation should contribute to earnings. However long that lasts, of course, as deflation could turn out to be very positive for the CAD$ as consumer demand is subject to severe truncation.

The time to buy assets are when they have underperformed and are statistically cheap on a P/E, P/B, and replacement cost basis. People who buy assets that have been in a long-term state of outperformance might get to ride the trend for a little while longer, but are eventually doomed to probable underperformance.

The PC’s have kept our deficit relatively low over the years but the NDP will spike it and no foreign investor will touch our hewers of wood and drawers of water economy

Canada is a net producer and exporter of capital over the long haul, so foreign investment isn’t particularly needed in Canada — we create more than enough of our own domestic capital output which has thus far gone into fixed RE investment, but can be diverted elsewhere as market conditions warrant. The people selling Canadian dollars at this point, mostly speculators, are walking into the quintessential bear trap. Much as they did when the CAD$ was at 66 cents 15 years ago on its way to 40 cents in the views of many.

Contrast this with the USA that is heavily dependant on foreign capital by virtue of running chronic (and now worsening) trade deficits.

#148 Ponzius Pilatus on 08.05.15 at 11:50 pm

#87 Oceanside on 08.05.15 at 9:00 pm
From the Victoria Times-Colonist

Joe, president of the Asian Real Estate Association’s Vancouver Island chapter, said many Chinese families are moving here from the Lower Mainland, often attracted by the quality of schools here and the chance for their children to be immersed in a largely English-speaking environment. They may keep their home in Vancouver and buy here in the $600,000 to $800,000 range.
————–
And this my friends is what the Economists call the multiplier effect.
Or Reagan’s trickle down economy.
Pretty sick, is it not.

#149 BS on 08.06.15 at 12:06 am

126

Haven’t posted here is some time, but couldn’t resist when I saw this Province article on Chinese money laundering

Wow, they detected a total of $15 million in undeclared cash at YVR and YYZ over a period of 2 years. Enough to buy 4 or 5 Vancouver Westside homes if the 869 people involved pooled all the money (works out to $17K each). Clearly that is driving prices. It couldn’t be the trillion in mortgage debt Canadians are borrowing.

From the article:

The data shows customs agents at Vancouver and Toronto airports seized $15,019,891 in either undeclared cash or monetary instruments from 869 Chinese nationals from June 2012 to December 2014.

#150 Dienekes on 08.06.15 at 12:07 am

Justin Jager, I mean..Trudeau will be premiere, Dollar at 65 cents, Calgary the most economically depressed area of Canada.
Welcome to 2016
I’m moving to Okotoks. Lots of oil patch suckers with blow up matress in a 2100 square foot homes in MLS today. Unless blow up matresses count as staging.
Bought myself a land based cruise ship over the weekend that my dually snorted hard to pull in Alberta this weekend for nothing. Feels good having cash.

#151 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 12:11 am

#137 OttawaMike

1. we’re talking about NaF…not F.

2. NaF IS a poison…this is why it is used as rat poison and “contact poison control” is on toothpaste tubes–it is, essentially, an industrial waste by-product.

3. NaF has nothing to do with cleaning water; why are you talking about contaminated Indian water?

4. poor people can’t afford anything BUT tap water in most cities…whether you think NaF is harmful or not…is it morally just to forcibly medicate the most impoverished of people? shouldn’t this be a choice for them?

let me guess…you have made up your mind…and are doing it “for their own good”?

#152 Peter W on 08.06.15 at 12:27 am

Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall wants cuts to the federal equalization program, suggesting some of the have-not provinces are getting too much money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Saskatchewan Premier floats equalization cuts

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/saskatchewan-premier-floats-equalization-cuts/article25855871/

#153 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 12:28 am

#124 Gulf Breeze

“Higher minimum wage is a direct cash spigot into the productive economy. That creates jobs.”

This is obviously false. Have a look at what’s happened in Puerto Rico.

“Small business owners who bemoan the effects of a rising minimum wage are thinking small.”

This is exactly the reason why large corporations (like McDonald’s) advocate minimum wage increases: it kills small, local competition.

But this creates jobs and is great for the poor, right?

“Besides, it’s indecent in the modern age that anybody should work for peanuts. There’s no lack of money out there.”

WTF? Why would you want to prevent a young person from getting their first job for “peanuts”?

Who are YOU to determine what a person is willing to work for?

Additionally, there’s a big lack of money out there…hence, all the debt. There is not enough money in existence to pay off all the accrued debt.

“Social Darwinist, small minded business owners who want the law of the jungle to apply to everyone but them”

WTF is the “law of the jungle”? Does it have something to do with “peanuts”? Can you prove, as you say, that all small business owners want this “law” applied equally to everyone?

Nope. Didn’t think so.

Do yourself a favor: drop the meaningless metaphors…and propaganda…and think…

logically.

#154 Retired Boomer - WI on 08.06.15 at 12:40 am

#137 OTTAWA MIKE

Floride (fluorine) is a naturally occurring element. TX, NM, KS, CO has it in many rural wells. Ever seen “mottled teeth” a natural even of drinking water laced with it.
A few PPB added to water where it is NOT natural to it does reduce dental carries. YES in way too heavy a dosage it can kill. So, what is your point here? So can H2O

#155 Waterloo Resident on 08.06.15 at 12:44 am

This is what I’m hearing from Canadian Economists right now:

“As the U.S. economy gathers strength, Canada will be pulled along with their good fortune, and Canadian’s incomes will rise accordingly, keeping Canada housing market appreciating in value by 5% to 10% per year for the foreseeable future”.

Well, in past recessions that’s what happened; our real estate market went up when the U.S. market improved, so who’s to doubt that will happen again, right?

#156 DON on 08.06.15 at 12:47 am

#142 Turtle

RE: Federal Election

The way Harper attacks Justin is not cool. This is how a small dog barks at a bigger one: “He is not ready”, “He is not ready”…. Seriously…. I don’t get that. Not ready for what? To rule as a Harper? How can you screw up the economy of such a prosperous country so much so fast and than tell other ones “they are not ready”?

Funny thing… there was one guy in Alberta telling people “Look in a mirror”, kind of the same way Harper does, and we all know how it ended.

So, the way it goes – Justin is gaining his votes. I don’t think at expense of Tom. He is saved. After Alberta’s elections it should be clear to everyone. Justin is taking his votes from Harper.

I don’t see any colossal victory, but I see a colossal loss for Harper. Maybe he’ll get 10%. His only hope to stay in politics and being heard is an even split 45% – 45% between LIB and NDP.

And maybe it will be the best outcome of the Elections – no Harper and even split on top. I would vote for that.

***************
I was thinking the same thing. It’s been two terms, people cant’ help but notice the bad economy and bad policies/legislation and are paying attention. Lashing out. Nothing but unsubstantiated attacks. Telling Alberta they made a mistake…Yikes!

What next…telling British Columbians they are nutty not to allow pipelines and tankers in pristine areas.

Tell Sask and Manitoba to give up supply management.

SAD MAD.

#157 Metro Van Observer on 08.06.15 at 12:50 am

“You can do what everyone else is – buying what’s going up (houses) and shunning what looks dodgy (equities, commodities).”

In my social circle people here only speak of one market, the housing market. Not a peep from people that I know about the equity or commodity markets, beyond the price at the pump.

I’ve been incrementally initiating or adding to positions in preferred share etf, bank shares & select reits trading below NAV in recent weeks. This has been a stomach churning experience being contrarian perhaps or just investing in a way totally foreign to the one asset (house) crowd. It can feel like a lonely endeavor being on such a course for sure when everyone else is obsessed with house values rising.

I hope that contuing down this path of buying the unloved value plays will eventually prove fruitful, but the patience required requires faith. Maple equities & REITs are not a crowded trade at the moment as they say while housing is. I for one don’t like crowds.

#158 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 1:01 am

#36 Freedom First

A RealDoll can have financial problems…? Amazing!

#159 jane 24 on 08.06.15 at 1:03 am

Gosh 6 am my time and 1 am your time and already about 150 comments. Hot stuff.

As I have said here many times, Canada is finally hitting that Perfect Storm after dodging the waves for two decades. Most other countries had their financial shakeout in 2008/9. Canada dodged that bullet by shady dealings but it is coming to get us now.

The political survivor/winner of this election will indeed be the loser.

Rates will normalise as they are starting to move up globally and not just in the States. Here in the UK the latest rates report is already showing growing Bank of England Rate Setting Committee support for higher rates and we have Mark Carney leading the pack. I expect EU and UK rates to be higher by October.

If you are interested in financial matters then read more international and not just Canadian economic news. Canada is a resultant and not a leading economic power. Things happen to Canada from the decisions of more powerful nations. Canada doesn’t make these things happen but our financial decisions both at govt and personal level make them worse.

As an example over the last decade China got sick of paying for North American commodities at North American prices. China went to developing African nations and literally brought the minerals in the ground to be extracted and shipped home by China. Much cheaper that dealing with Canada and the Chinese have full control. Canada is dealt out. There is always more than one way in life to for the person with the money to solve a problem.

Tricky times ahead for many including most of my family and friends. Battle down the hatches. Stop spending anything. Buying a house right now is indeed financial suicide.

#160 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 1:11 am

#66 Gulf Breeze

Well said, agree. All this fear mongering affixed to Party Labels is just… Marketing 101: Tell People What to Buy (or Who to Vote For/Not Vote For). Questions: Whom is doing the telling? What are their biases?

One can only hope that the current batch of humans comprising each Party can learn from the past mistakes made and bring new ideas to the table, modelling from successful examples around the world. Not exactly seeing this quality in the incumbent. 2 term limit a good idea in Canukistan.

#161 bb on 08.06.15 at 1:22 am

#36 Freedom First

LOL! Good thing I read this blog everyday. Mobility and free time do have value.

#162 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 1:24 am

#73 saskatoon

Working out well for Norway, (and others). Supply and demand fundamentals, capitalist meritocracy, AND a very socialist legacy govn’t. coexisting peacefully. It can be done.

For clarification purposes, those left of Tea Party views are not all Koolaid Drinking Brainwashed Commie Pinko Socialist Whackjobs. There’s at least another 50 shades of grey in there, and that contingent is growing.

In fact, if any aspiring politicos ever figure this out, there’s a whole centrist MAJORITY electorate to mine going forward as Gen X’s, Y’s & beyond hit the polls in increasing numbers & the old ‘uns depart this sphere for greener pastures. Most of us are open to new ideas, as the old ones are failing rapidly.

Mmmm me want Kool-aid. So thirsty!

#163 Van real on 08.06.15 at 1:26 am

For all of you who are planning on voting NDP, please remember their plan is to increase corporate tax rates. Not a smart move in a recession. Just watch the equity market fall. I sure hope people will temper their anger and not do anything rash like voting NDP

#164 Mike T. on 08.06.15 at 1:31 am

ha ha steerage section

loud and proud?

it’s ok that people are too busy to notice things like the sun changing, the experience would not be what it is without everyone doing exactly what they’re doing

certain outcomes in the man made rules are pre determined, some are not

best to worry about the ones that are not

#165 Mike T. on 08.06.15 at 1:33 am

also, separate that which is true (global warming) from that which is false (is caused by man)

it’s the sun!

#166 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 1:49 am

Meant “those left” should be “those with left”.

#167 Mark on 08.06.15 at 1:54 am

“The way Harper attacks Justin is not cool. This is how a small dog barks at a bigger one: “He is not ready”, “He is not ready”…. Seriously…. I don’t get that. Not ready for what?”

Agree completely. Harper should be embarrassed for being the leader of a party that is advancing such nonsensical commentary.

The comments in other ads, appealing to Trudeau’s “lack of experience” is symbolic of what is wrong with the Canadian labour market. People who have a lot of experience have relatively little trouble finding new jobs, but heaven forbid, if one is a new grad, especially in a less-in-favour field, it has been mostly very tough going for the past 10-15 years. I think we all know a college graduate or two who, despite being skilled, can’t find an education-appropriate job these days on account of “lack of experience’. Hence being caught in a circular problem — can’t get a job without experience, but can’t get experience without a job!

#168 slippery on 08.06.15 at 2:20 am

Sept 17 is when Obama nuclear deals gets voted on…not gonna happen he knows it and has already stated the consequences ie-war ie- watch oil prices jump ie- war is good for the Economy ie-war the fed up rates. Even smoking man will agree with me. Obama is a fools fooler. ..the world just keeps on getting wackier n wackier

#169 Nagraj on 08.06.15 at 2:51 am

Hey!
See the guy lookin out the winder a the lady gettin her head chopped off? That’s my royal Thai friend Tulong Bhomibol Adulyadej Sarong, and the lady is the boss at that ritzy Siamese restaurant he works at.
What happened is his job is to hang around all dolled up in a suit and bow tie, greet and charm the pants off the customers with his million dollar smile. He’s good at that.
BUT he got bored and sick of the monkey outfit and asked if he could just wear his sarong. SHE SAID NO. So he bribed the driver to chop her head off.
This is happenin while they’re goin to work and you can see he’s got his sarong all ready in a little suitcase on his lap. Smart guy.

We will be voting cuz we got fake papers and we want to be good citizens and the best for our new home country. We will ask Dr.Louise how to vote.

Your friend, Bulto

#170 stock pickin fairy on 08.06.15 at 2:58 am

“TCK.B @ $9.21 looks very appealing. Hard to time an absolute bottom, but may be a time to start nibbling.”

…made that macro call weeks ago on this blog….also called AGU…CP….SAP, MFI and QSR…all up handily…beating the annual returns of every ETF in a balanced portfolio…in mere weeks….arrogant stock pickers rolling in dough-re-mi……again…did anyone get in?

….earnings on big US equities horrible…US market rolling over…don’t get crushed by the elephant boyz and grrrls…..an AAPL a day will definatley lose you serious money. calls on US equity buys are way too late.

#171 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 3:20 am

One of the rats that jumped off the SS NeanderCon recently has landed on a nice piece of terra firma: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-baird-lands-yet-another-job-as-adviser-to-hong-kong-billionaire/article23786325/

Insight into where there priorities were/are as a party? Yikes. Yes, we “can” do better.

#172 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 3:20 am

“There” should be “their”. Sigh.

#173 Leo Trollstoy on 08.06.15 at 3:50 am

Thank goodness that there’s no inflation in the U.S.!

http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2015/CPI8-15.png

#174 Steerage to date: 143 Ugly Mood, 0 Good Mood & 1 Deletion on 08.06.15 at 3:51 am

Yup, new government.

Well 1 good piece of news yesterday is that the trade deficit narrowed (of course buried in the muck of nearly every other indicator being negative).

Probably more muck tommorow with Jobs numbers.

#175 For Sale on 08.06.15 at 4:34 am

GT – I have in the past embraced the one asset strategy that you advise against. Now my overpriced home is for sale. With the proceeds, I’m planning to adopt a diversified portfolio plan – through an advisor.

However, 20% of my liquid assets will not be in US dollars. With the loonie so low, I’m not willing to exchange now.

So, can I still invest in US assets without exchanging currencies? And get the same return?

#176 TurnerNation on 08.06.15 at 8:18 am

#120 Godth. I was at a presentation with former CSIS director of counterterrorism speaking to capital markets folks. He supports Bill C51. But by his account cyber attacks seems the concern of largest specter.

I note this long weekend news reporting 16 people died on Ontario roads, waterways alone. What should I worry about…

Yet the teevee newz shows us stock footage of VeryBadMen in black taking aim at targets in a sandy desert. Where are they. Here, we get a few drug addled bozos who can’t seem to complete. But the show trials go on.

#177 Llewelyn on 08.06.15 at 8:23 am

Plenty of chatter lately about the value of the Canadian declining to 60 cents, or lower.

I find all this prognostication a bit disconcerting in light of the facts that we are importing more than we export and that imports are the only thing I actually use my money to buy. We are being told that inflation, as measured by our government, is minimal in spite of clear evidence to the contrary.

Unless I am missing something the Canadian dollar is losing value against a number of currencies and as a result the relative wealth of Canadian citizens seems to be declining daily.

Now that the Parliament of Canada has been placed in limbo for three months or I assume that the Bank of Canada has the authority to intervene if the declining value of the Canadian dollar triggers serious inflation over the next three months.

I visited the Bank of Canada website and discovered that the Governor has the authority to intervene;

“if extreme currency movements seriously threatened the conditions that support sustainable long-term growth of the Canadian economy, with the goal of helping to stabilize the currency and to signal a commitment to back up the intervention with further policy actions, as necessary.”

I don’t know about you but I am very curious about the range of conditions necessary to jog the Bank of Canada into action and what these interventions might entail.

I fear that the value of the Canadian dollar can be manipulated by greedy currency speculators like George Soros and based on what I have seen from Stephen Poloz lately I am not certain he is my intervener of choice.

Canadians sure seem to place a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of appointed officials they know absolutely nothing about.

Some might call this blind faith foolish!!!

#178 TRT on 08.06.15 at 8:34 am

Carney blowing hot air in England now.

#179 A.L. on 08.06.15 at 8:59 am

Garth, did you see this story? Wish I could’ve bought a house when I was 19…

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/homeandproperty/how-i-bought-my-first-house-at-age-19/ar-BBlpVtQ

Apple or Google stock, or an ETF holding the S&P, might have been better. — Garth

#180 Incubus on 08.06.15 at 9:01 am

“That, in turn, will create more economic trouble with the currency reacting negatively. Six months ago I did not believe it, but now I do. A dollar sub-70 cents is out there.”

With Mulcair in power I guess ~50 cents dollar.
The only thing I hope is that they would be a minority government.

When the economy would look like Greece with civil unrest, the PC and the remains of PLC would overthrow them and we would go back in election.

#181 someone on 08.06.15 at 9:34 am

It’s all doom and gloom on this website. Meanwhile, in Metro Vancouver, real estate prices just keep going up. It doesn’t matter that the economy is in recession, SFH prices are up 16% this summer in Vancouver. I really appreciate the economic analysis you get on this blog. But, at the end of the day, does it even matter if we are in a recession or even a depression, prices just keep going up in Vancouver. When will the madness end???? According to the Vancouver Sun:

“The Greater Vancouver board said the benchmark price for a detached Metro Vancouver home has increased by 16.2 per cent in the past year to $1.14 million, while the price of a typical townhouse has gone up 7.8 per cent to $511,500, and condominiums have increased 5.9 per cent to $400,900.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/Seller+market+conditions+drive+Metro+Vancouver/11268350/story.html

Smart people take profits. — Garth

#182 lee on 08.06.15 at 10:06 am

Everyone,

Tell me where my numbers are wrong:

1. 2.5 million residents of Toronto, and that means about 900,000 households.

2. About 150,000 fully detached single family homes in Toronto, not including the junk that is either going to be torn down or is unlivable.

3. About 18% of workers work for the government, or about 150,000 of those Toronto households. All of these people have jobs for life and earn an average of $100,000 when you consider pensions and benefits. That’s enough to carry a $750,000 mortgage. Not to mention entrepreneurs, rich retirees, professionals, tax evaders etc.

4. House prices in Toronto are just right. They will rise 2-3% a year hereafter. But what you have seen is an adjustment, not a bubble. No $750,000 houses in Forest Hills coming, not now, not ever.

5. Everyone’s time to buy was 2011. Everyone who waited after that is a fool.

6. Now is the time to sell, if you are ready to rent.

#183 TheManwhoStaresatSheeple on 08.06.15 at 10:11 am

From the article:
“Now you also know about the dollar. At 75 cents it’s collapsed 20% against the US currency over the last two years and (as I mentioned recently) is forecast by Oppenheimer to lose another 14%. While this is good for exports (our trade deficit was less of a disaster this week), it’s historically been tough on the governing party.”

Why is the lower loonie good for exports?

This is yesterday’s Stats Canada release:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/150805/dq150805a-eng.htm

Exports were up 6.3% MoM to C$44.6 Billion
However the international commerce is not settled in C$ but in US$ (mostly) and according to Bank of Canada
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/exchange/10-year-lookup/
the C$ in June 2015 (noon rate) has fluctuated between 1.2208 (June18) and 1.2550 (June01) with the average for the period been 1.2366

If we use that rate and assume all the export was settled in US$ we will get the June export numbers being U$36.07 Billion

Now let’s see what happened a year ago – the data for June 2014 is here:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/140806/dq140806a-eng.htm

And guess what – we managed to export C$0.6 Billion more – for a total of C$45.2 Billion.
And according to the BoC the C$ was fluctuating between 1.0676 (June30,2014) and 1.0937 (June04,2014) with the average for the month given as 1.0832
Using that average and the same assumption as above we end up with the exports in June 2014 being U$41.73 Billion

So with the loonie being higher by more than 15 cents we managed to export more than U$5.66 Billion (or 15.7%) merchandise.

WTF – but let’s brainwash the sheeple that the lower dollar is good for them

#184 Sonny on 08.06.15 at 10:12 am

Stephen Harper, Serial Abuser of Power: More Evidence

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/06/Stephen-Harper-Abuses-of-Power-2/

“The previously published first half of this omnibus of Stephen Harper’s sins listed 31 instances of laws broken and ethics pummeled. Some happened during elections. Others were in relentless service of policing and polishing the Harper “brand.”

Today we focus on how Harper has willfully misgoverned — 28 ways the PM and his team have lied, flouted rules and stymied democracy to achieve political and ideological ends.”

#185 gut check on 08.06.15 at 10:21 am

@ #137 OttawaMike on 08.05.15 at 10:59 pm

Thank goodness you came along and mane-called! As soon as an anonymous industry insider comes along and calls industry opponents “wackos” I know who to believe instantly!

I guess I shouldn’t pay attention to any of the studies that have been done demonstrating the negative health effects of fluoride, nor should I heed studies which have shown a negative correlation between water fluoridation and the development of dental caries.

whew! thanks for clearing that up, pal. I almost fell for what those named, non-insider scientists with nothing to gain from defending the status quo were saying!

#186 gut check on 08.06.15 at 10:24 am

“mane” should have been “name”

#187 Smoking Man on 08.06.15 at 10:31 am

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7936782

Now this is smart, Newfoundland ditches student loans in favour of grants.

#188 Daisy Mae on 08.06.15 at 10:39 am

#4: “Not to blame the current government, This disaster is a global phonominon…”

***************

Harper couldn’t control oil prices…but he sure as hell could control the economic measures he’s implemented here in Canada. So he most certainly can be blamed.

#189 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 10:39 am

#162 Vanecdotal

actually, for many, it isn’t “working out” for Norway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0hnA341AWE

you may want to consider: who are YOU to speak for an entire nation?

in any case, what you are implying here is that stealing a “little bit” is okay (i.e., socialism)…and stealing “lots” is wrong (i.e., communism).

it sure is easy to rationalize theft when you are standing in cowardice behind the violence and power of the state…isn’t it?

sure…go ahead and believe in “left-wing” ideology…but let’s at least be honest about it: it is a system of anti-freedom, steeped in FORCED immorality: theft, violence, bloodshed, coercion, cowardice, weakness, jealousy, and control.

#190 Daisy Mae on 08.06.15 at 10:56 am

#34: Why? We’ve never had one before, so we cant possibly know whether it’ll be good or bad. All I personally can see is that what we currently have is awful.”

****************

We’re all aware of their performance on provincial levels…

#191 gut check on 08.06.15 at 10:58 am

@ #188
well, saskatoon, I am not a communist nor even a socialist, but even *I* can see where taking some of the profits from those who are very successful in order to maintain the well being of a community is a good thing.

Where would any of the major big dogs be today WITHOUT some socialist-type intervention?

Roads, military, health care, education, research, environment, water supply, postal service, telephone infrastructure, air, rail and water transportation infrastructure? Is taking tax money and using it for those things tantamount to STEALING, in your opinion?

Some taxation and ‘redistribution’ you agree with to the extent that you don’t even notice it! Others bother you. We can all say the same.

#192 Shawn on 08.06.15 at 11:01 am

Better to be Smart or Lucky?

Smart people take profits. — Garth

**********************************
Agreed. But the “dumb” people who let their house prices ride these past few years got lucky and it has worked out very well so far.

Only if they take profits, obviously. This ride will end. — Garth

#193 MF on 08.06.15 at 11:01 am

#181 lee on 08.06.15 at 10:06 am

I agree with most of what you wrote except for that you have not accounted for speculators. There are tons of speculators in the GTA.

The last point is a little confusing. If houses are going to rise 2-3% from here on out, then why would now be the time to sell if you want to rent?

Personally, I’m not sure what to do yet. I’m going to try this balanced portfolio approach for at least a few years. I just looked at my numbers today and man I’m down a lot. I know it’s part of the whole investment thing but it is frustrating. People who own houses don’t have this. They just get up every single day and assume they are richer.

MF

#194 Llewelyn on 08.06.15 at 11:10 am

#188 Saskatoon

News flash!!! No matter hard you blow Feudalism will not return to Canada.

Wealth redistribution is an integral part of any civilized society based on democracy. Take a deep breath and accept a responsibility to help those less fortunate than yourself.

Equating compassion for those in need of assistance with “immorality, theft, coercion, cowardice, weakness, jealousy,” is hyperbole beyond comprehension.

Best to live your life as if the fickle finger of fate might point in your direction tomorrow.

#195 OttawaMike on 08.06.15 at 11:19 am

#184 gut check on 08.06.15 at 10:21 am

It costs the rate payers money to add fluoride to water. In its raw form it is the most dangerous chemical that we deal with. Everybody in the industry would be glad to not have to deal with it.

As I stated. F is added to water due to majority consent from plebiscites in the 50’s and 60’s. To discontinue it requires the same process. Many western cities have gone this route.

The whole conspiracy theory behind F is absurd. Is it good to medicate the public via the water supply- maybe not. why don’t we add anti depressants and aspirin to? But to suggest that there is a huge cover-up is beyond ridiculous. Why would the govt. do this when healthcare is paid out of the same public purse.

I have read the anti fluoride sites and there are no credible health industry professionals that present valid arguments on any of those sites. Please direct me to some doctors, dentists or scientists that have produced credible peer reviewed evidence based science on the dangers. I would like to read them and you might actually sway my opinion.

BTW, I have no vested (insider) interest in this subject other than working in the engineering dept. of our water dept. What could I possibly gain from defending Fluoridation?

#196 Daisy Mae on 08.06.15 at 11:21 am

#156: “I don’t see any colossal victory, but I see a colossal loss for Harper. Maybe he’ll get 10%. His only hope to stay in politics and being heard is an even split 45% – 45% between LIB and NDP.”

****************
Yes, this may be the only option:

Coalition definition. An alliance of political groups formed to oppose a common foe or pursue a common goal. Note: In countries with many political parties, none of which can get a majority of the citizens’ votes, the only way an effective government can be formed is by a coalition of parties.

#197 Randy Randerson on 08.06.15 at 11:31 am

#182 TheManwhoStaresatSheeple on 08.06.15 at 10:11 am

Nice sleuthing! So even though we export more in CAD terms after the loonie slide, it still sucks compare to a year ago when everything is denominated in USD.

Thanks for Harper for making the Socialist Republic of Canukstan a “Energy Superpower”, just like Australia and NZ.

#198 Rational Optimist on 08.06.15 at 11:36 am

62 Nagraj on 08.05.15 at 7:58 pm

“there can be no doubt whatsoever that the author of the above-quoted error was and is CONSCIOUSLY perfectly aware that Dief as Prime Minister PRECEDED Pearson”

That’s true that Diefenbaker preceded Pearson, but before Pearson defeated Diefenbaker in the ‘60s, he lost to him big in 1958. Pearson had not been prime minister- Diefenbaker had already led a minority government at that time. The author was completely correct about Diefenbaker burying Pearson in ’58- and, actually, when Diefenbaker was unseated by Pearson a few years later, the defeat was not so resounding that Dief left leadership of the party.

#199 Drill Baby Drill on 08.06.15 at 11:39 am

#140 Lorne
“You are, of course, aware that as soon as you use the term “commie pinkos”, you totally discredit anything you say.”

You are right I should not insult “commie pinkos” by comparing them to the NDP.

#200 Rational Optimist on 08.06.15 at 11:40 am

142 Turtle on 08.05.15 at 11:17 pm

“I don’t see any colossal victory, but I see a colossal loss for Harper. Maybe he’ll get 10%.”

That’s not a credible prediction. The absolute Tory floor of support must be at somewhere around a fifth or a quarter of the electorate. It would take effort to do as poorly as that.

Please try to be serious.

#201 waiting on the westcoast on 08.06.15 at 11:41 am

191 Shawn on 08.06.15 at 11:01 am
“Better to be Smart or Lucky?”

According to Bo Peabody, you need to be smart enough to know when you are lucky…. And then take advantage of it.

Say someone flukes out and bought even though it wasn’t the logical choice. They now find themselves in a house worth double. If they are smart, they will see that they were lucky and sell for the profit now.

#202 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 08.06.15 at 11:45 am

#141 Smoking Man on 08.05.15 at 11:15 pm
Retirement, I’m into day 3.. It sucks..
Mrs Smoking Man is driving me nuts, paint the fence, let’s go to senica, cut the grass, let’s go to senica.
Look my woman, I have 50 fans waiting for a book, let me focus, finish. I can afford a contractor.
You’re just trying to get out of real work she says.
I’m writing a book damn it I said which sends her off to fits of laughter..
Get back to work, you can’t write.
The phyco is not happy if I’m not out side breaking a sweat..
Blue collar parents is what I’m thinking. Men must sweat or its not work. She’s old school…
This is my delema.
_____________________________________________
Tell her to go get a dam job herself! Jesus Smoking Man she sounds 1950’s did she even graduate from high school?
Or go to Seneca without her and send a text of you at a slot machine with two hotties sitting on your lap!

BTW Told you retirement sucks. I’m already tired of sailing this boat. Hummmmm perhaps I could write a book. Let me know when you open your dyslexic book writing school and I will consider a class. Oh forgot passed VFR and IFR health check ups. Could be back in the air soon.

#203 Drill Baby Drill on 08.06.15 at 11:45 am

All on this Pathetic Blog please remember Canada is a commodities producer. Right now the world demand for commodities is low. When this world of 7.5 billion people decide to buy again then Canada will be in demand.

#204 Mister Obvious on 08.06.15 at 11:51 am

From the G&M…

“…if you own a detached home in Vancouver you basically won the lottery.”
—————————

Not at all. It means you’ve won the lottery but haven’t yet cashed in your ticket.

It’s definitely not the same thing.

#205 gut check on 08.06.15 at 11:55 am

Ottawa Mike – what company provides your fluoride?

What do you consider a ‘credible’ study? (because that’s going to be the sticking point, isn’t it? I will contend that the very mechanism of peer-review is deeply flawed and that the journals into which such things are published are compromised as there is much industry editorial and funding for those journals.

The way I have learned to discern truth is to look all over the place for evidence. I don’t need anyone else’s opinion on who is ‘credible’ or not – I follow the money, mainly. I cross reference. I look up the big words and the science if I don’t understand them.

Also, your congitive dissonance is stunning, which would also hamper our ability to have a back and forth on this. You’d keep on telling me you have no interest in defending fluoridation at the same time as you defend fluoridation! This in spite of it being ‘the most dangerous substance you deal with’ AND wishing to be rid of it.

Finally, this is not the place for this debate. If you’d really like to learn more about it, maybe look at those supposedly non-credible sources more closely. Contact one of them directly.

#206 Herb on 08.06.15 at 11:59 am

#193 Llewelyn,

that hyperbole in #188 is not beyond saskatoon’s comprehension.

I am sure he actually believes it, which tells you all you have to know about the wingnut mind.

#207 Steerage riff raff on 08.06.15 at 12:11 pm

VanDUMP!

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/its-becoming-a-dumpster-over-there-trash-piling-up-at-abandoned-vancouver-properties

#208 Godth on 08.06.15 at 12:22 pm

#175 TurnerNation on 08.06.15 at 8:18 am

Yeah, it really didn’t take much for the charter of rights and freedoms to be subverted in the “true north strong and free”. booga-booga.

Sad really as we’ve seen this movie repeated throughout history in many iterations. I’d rather take my chances with the terrorists in a messy democracy than have the control freaks have their way through peddling fear. Oh well, we’ll have to wait and see how it goes but I think we took a wrong turn at that fork in the road back there in 2014.

#209 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 12:23 pm

#194 OttawaMike

have a look at this book, written by three doctors (if that makes any difference):

http://www.vitalitymagazine.com/book-reviews/review/the-case-against-fluoride/

here’s another interesting article:

http://vitalitymagazine.com/article/drinking-water-debate/

#193 Llewelyn

1. who said anything about feudalism?
2. theft is NOT compassion.
3. cultures can be “civilized” without taxation.

wow!

#190 gut check

1. “I am not a communist nor even a socialist, but even *I* can see where taking some of the profits from those who are very successful in order to maintain the well being of a community is a good thing.”

*cough*this is socialism!*cough*

!!cognitive dissonance alert!!

2. “Roads, military, health care, education, research, environment, water supply, postal service, telephone infrastructure, air, rail and water transportation infrastructure? Is taking tax money and using it for those things tantamount to STEALING, in your opinion?”

Yes, IT IS STEALING.

just because a thief gives half (or even 90%…or ALL) of the money he has stolen from YOU to charity…doesn’t make the theft just.

in any case, infrastructure can obviously exist WITHOUT taxation.

3. “Some taxation and ‘redistribution’ you agree with to the extent that you don’t even notice it! Others bother you. We can all say the same.”

WTF. no response necessary here!

#210 Godth on 08.06.15 at 12:42 pm

#204 gut check on 08.06.15 at 11:55 am
http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/expert-advice/papers/yr2014/health-effects-of-water-fluoridation/

Here’s the most important line (imo):
“With respect to the former it is important to note that the inherent nature of science is such that it is never possible to prove there is absolutely no risk of a very rare negative effect – science can only draw conclusions that are highly probable, but not absolute.”

Science by press release is a door that swings both ways as well. Who knows?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaO69CF5mbY

#211 gut check on 08.06.15 at 12:44 pm

saskatoon – So you agree that infrastructure cannot exist without taxation. What type of world do you want to live in then, because you’re not making any sense.

What are your alternatives to government funding for those things or do you just not want them?

Believe me, I am for SMALLER, LESS INTRUSIVE government. I loathe the nanny state. Perhaps you can open my mind to a way of devising functioning systems without this ‘stealing’ we are talking about.

#212 Gulf Breeze on 08.06.15 at 12:44 pm

#153 Saskatoon

There is zero proof that raising minimum wages hurts the economy. Why do you think Yellen and Obama are agitating for wage increases like crazy?

And…most job creation, certainly in the US and likely in Canada too, is in the service sector. It’s no longer the job of ‘choice’ for teens. Adults have to survive on the wages

If small businesses have a higher barrier to entry, that’s too bad. If the employer can only profit if he underpays his employees, he should seek work elsewhere.

All of these macho chest pounding, ‘go it alone libertarians’ profiting from others poverty, have to give THEIR heads a shake.

The highest barrier to entry for small businesses, mom and pop restaurants, laundromats, car washes etc… are drug money launderers owners who don’t have to turn an actual profit.

When I was in the SouthWest a few years back and again recently, one particular chain stood out. There were never any customers in their multiple franchise operation. It’s still in business.

Think of the knock out punch to any small business trying to compete with entities that don’t have to actually make money. In the States ‘Breaking Bad’ is the reality.

Is it different here? Not much, I ‘ll wager.

#213 gut check on 08.06.15 at 12:45 pm

oops, I read your response wrong. You *disagree* that taxation is necessary for infrastructure. Still, my question stands – HOW?

#214 Rational Optimist on 08.06.15 at 12:45 pm

What surprises me is that this is the first lengthy conversation about fluoridation on this comment section…

#215 Mike in Toronto on 08.06.15 at 12:49 pm

The Grasshopper and the Ant

The Harper government has made me feel like certain conservative threads (not all of them) are abusing some ideals. It’s like the parable of the grasshopper and the ant, thrown on its head.

The Ant works away, ensuring that the elderly and sick are cared for, that the children are educated, that there’s a future. The economy is managed anticipating a bleak future. Stability and fairness are important.

People, sick of slow growth and stability vote for the grasshopper, the grasshopper promises that you’ve worked hard, you deserve more for your money. These social programs aren’t necessary because there is no bleak future, only a bleak present under the Ants and their waste.

So the grasshoppers give people back what they were saving so hard, they reduce the taxes, scrap the social programs, encourage people to not only fail to save for the future, but to BORROW from the future.

2 years later, the future beginning to look far too soon and far too bleak, they devalue the savings of the past, “the ants had you wasting your time preparing, and now all your preparation is something we can all get for nothing!”, they borrow from the future to pay for luxury goods and military spending while education, food, healthcare etc, all suffer. They sell the fields to the Chinese and Brazilians, “they’ll keep the jobs in the country and pay us to work!”

“Ants just waste their money on things we don’t need, for people who don’t work, like the elderly or children. Sound management of money can only be had by grasshoppers! More money for people in their prime child rearing and income earning years!”

When winter comes, the people vote NDP, but the coffers are empty, everyone’s saturated in debt, the currency is devalued, and no assets are left. 4-8 years later, when things begin to recover, everyone forgets why the NDP were a powerless government and people start to think the Grasshoppers have good ideas again…

#216 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 12:53 pm

#210 gut check

dude…where did i say that?

#217 chapter 9 on 08.06.15 at 12:54 pm

If junior becomes PM he will push for bilingual judges on the Supreme Court. Why do we take a census?Outside of Quebec and New Brunswick we keep flogging this dead horse call bilingualism.The population of the four western provinces and the four atlantic provinces- 12,888,000. Do you know how many speak French in the home 430,660. The demographics in this country have over whelming changed Punjabi,Cantonese,Mandarin,Tagalog make up 64.4% of the spoken language in Vancouver alone. But as taxpayers we continue to spend $2.4 Billion a year to fund this lavish,redundant program only to serve the self interest of some one who’s last name happens to be Trudeau!
2011 census

#218 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 12:59 pm

#213 gut check

private investment.

it is already happening: just look at the 407 toll road…owned by a private foreign company.

the crappy thing about this: taxation (violence) paid to build this road and government force was most likely used to “appropriate” the land…now it is sold.

why not just have the company build a road in the first place?

or have people in the community “volunteer” to offer funds to build a road?

otherwise, violence is necessarily being initiated (if government gets involved).

#206 Herb

by the way, this is NOT hyperbole.

government “taxation” (at any level) requires violence, force, control, coercion, etc..

this is the nature of aggression.

The 407 is majority owned by the CPP Investment Board and SNC Lavelin, of Montreal. — Garth

#219 gut check on 08.06.15 at 1:08 pm

#210 Godth

well, it’s pretty difficult for me to accept a government sponsored study undertaken by government and mainstream academic types whose position in society depends on them toeing the line as evidence that the government might not be doing the right thing by fluoridating the water.

It’s the police policing the police, and we all know that’s a bad idea.

Maybe that’s what your video link was trying to get across, but I’m not certain, because … well I’m just not. :)

#220 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 1:11 pm

#213 gut check

how’s about “crowdfunding” roads?

if people really WANT them, and see the intrinsic benefit…they will help.

this is voluntary, and does not violate the non-aggression principle.

if people don’t pony up…well, then they don’t really want roads.

government “roads”, in any case, are not by any means necessary for life, happiness, civilization.

#221 TurnerNation on 08.06.15 at 1:12 pm

Ottawa Mike if cancer positively correlates with age then why the push of HPV ‘vaccines’ on 12yr old kids?
Lol don’t fight the machine. ..they own your mind

Corporate Theocracy.

#222 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 1:15 pm

“The 407 is majority owned by the CPP Investment Board and SNC Lavelin, of Montreal. — Garth”

as far as i know, montreal’s snc lavelin is a subsidiary of grupo ferrovial…

a construction company located in spain.

#223 Trash busters on 08.06.15 at 1:16 pm

Re: People dumping their trash on empty houses in Vancouver.
——————
This problem could be a money saver for the City.
Instead of driving from house to house to pick up the garbage, just designate an empty house (of which there are plenty) in each neighborhood as a garbage depot.
Two birds with one stone:
The City saves money by not driving around to every house, and then bills the owner of the empty lot for the “clean up”.

#224 gut check on 08.06.15 at 1:17 pm

@ #218 saskatoon

Private investment is fine for some things – but how would you like Monsanto to be the only educator in the field of horticulture, or Glaxo Smith Kline to exclusively teach people Medicine? Or Blackwater to run the police? Or let’s say Jimmy Swaggart’s empire bought up all the primary schools in your area?

oh wait.. we practically have that now. Soon to be a fait accompli with the TPP – minus the investment part, of course.

#225 Where's The Money Guido? on 08.06.15 at 1:34 pm

Re: #53 sentry on 08.05.15 at 7:43 pm

….Never had an NDP government???Really,,we can show you the mop up required after 2 cycles of NDP in B.C….just a mess with huge debt racked up.What makes some people think it would be different at the federal level ??

NDP left the BC Lieberals with a balanced budget and the Lieberals consequently stole BC Rail from the taxpayer to sell to their donors for fire sale price while saying the NDP left them no choice (and Gordon Campbell promising not to sell BC Rail).
Campbell got a plum post from Harper for that.
The Lieberals have proceeded to sell EVERYTHING in BC to friends and donors and now we are going to pay for 50 years for power that BC Hydro sells to others for a lot less, including the US. Hell we’re building a 10 Billion dollar dam (Site C) so that they can give FREE water to industry and sell for a pittance to the US.
BC is a pit of sleeze, but hey we got mountains.

#226 David Lee on 08.06.15 at 1:35 pm

Tricky Dicky and Deceivin’ Stephen: cut from the same cloth:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/nixon-harper-and-the-hallmarks-of-power/article25852078/

#227 jeb on 08.06.15 at 1:39 pm

If 80% of Canadian exports go to USA, Canada dollar is lowest in 10 year, and USA economic is going great how can Canada be in a worse recession in 50 years?

#228 Waterloo Resident on 08.06.15 at 1:42 pm

Here is my little ‘Bit’ of beliefs as far as fluoride is concerned:

1) – fluoride treatments from the dentist, or fluoride in the toothpaste = those are applied directly to the teeth and thus they create a beneficial ‘hard’ coating to the teeth themselves and is actually ‘GOOD’ for the person.

2) fluoride in the drinking water = very little actually goes to the teeth themselves and most goes to other parts of the body that do NOT require fluoride protection, thus that is why it is bad for the person’s health.

Common sense actually, so just wake up and realize the truth and stop being so stubborn about it, okay?

#229 @MisterObvoius on 08.06.15 at 1:43 pm

From the G&M…

“…if you own a detached home in Vancouver you basically won the lottery.”
—————————

Not at all. It means you’ve won the lottery but haven’t yet cashed in your ticket.

It’s definitely not the same thing.

—————————————————————–

Really? An ignorant comment. Holding stocks is the same thing. You don’t have anything until you sell. What if everyone sells at once.

Stocks can be sold in seconds. When a housing market turns, it can take months or even years to unload. No valid comparison. — Garth

#230 SWL1976 on 08.06.15 at 1:46 pm

#214 Rational Optimist

What surprises me is that this is the first lengthy conversation about fluoridation on this comment section…

I think we have breached the subject in the past here, but it is worth further discussion

Fluoride is known to calcify the pineal gland.

http://fluoridealert.org/issues/health/pineal-gland/

The pineal gland is one of the smallest and most important endocrine glads in the body, located in the center of the brain. Also referred to as our ‘third eye’

http://www.newhealthguide.org/Pineal-Gland-Function.html

Is it a conspiracy or coincidence that we need fluoride in our public water supplies?

#231 Taxi vs Ridesharing on 08.06.15 at 1:46 pm

Please sign uber petitions to modernize transportation.

https://action.uber.org/vancouver/

These thugs in Ottawa were threatening Uber drivers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/taxi-drivers-look-like-thugs-in-anti-uber-video-ottawa-mayor-says-1.3181517

#232 Godth on 08.06.15 at 1:49 pm

I hear you. Invoke the precautionary principle. We live in a world of scientism though and often theory is taken as fact thus the polemics on so many issues.

We don’t know what we don’t know, there are too many variables! haha

#233 pwn3d on 08.06.15 at 1:55 pm

The 407 is majority owned by the CPP Investment Board and SNC Lavelin, of Montreal. — Garth
——————

Always amazed at how many people don’t know this. Just goes to show how much people talk about things they really have no idea what they’re talking about. Kind of like Mark, which is a good segue to today’s TREB report. Another banner month! I’ll be locking in my tax free profits in September or maybe Oct. What a ride.

You waited too long. The average SFD house in 416 has fallen in price by $120,000 since May. — Garth

#234 Doug in London on 08.06.15 at 2:01 pm

@anotherstabbinginsaskatoon, post #98:
Oil sub $40 for the next generation.
********************************
When I start reading kind of comment that on a regular basis, I’ll know it’s time to buy more oil stocks or ETFs.

#235 Daisy Mae on 08.06.15 at 2:02 pm

#124: “Higher minimum wage is a direct cash spigot into the productive economy.”

******************

It will just trigger a nation-wide round of union negotiations. EVERYONE will want more. And so…here we go again.

#236 You can't be serious on 08.06.15 at 2:12 pm

#218 saskatoon

You libertarians make me laugh. We tried it your “go it alone, what’s mine is mine, I’ll kill you if you challenge me” way already; it was called the “Stone Age”. If history is to believed, it resulted in a hundred-thousand years of virtually no technological advancement, and a system where no one could own anything beyond what their own two arms and a club could protect.

You libertarians all forget so easily that the concept of ownership can only exist with threats of “violence”, as you put it, from a government. From your perspective, societly should only exist in order to provide you with people to protect YOUR property. What’s in it for those doing the protecting?

#237 MrMagoo on 08.06.15 at 2:18 pm

Recession on the horizon, commodity prices coming down…is it time for me to build a house? Back in 2008-2009 when the US economy imploded and lumber prices were rock bottom, I missed the opportunity to build on a vacation property that I owe. So, the current varmint and critter infected shack still remains. I’m now wondering if we do hit hard times here in the YVR area and with continued low commodity prices (lumber), would next year be a good time to build? Note, I’m not planning on selling the home, only to enjoy a vacation property for me and my family’s enjoyment.

#238 TheLaughingCON on 08.06.15 at 2:27 pm

But do you know why is it working well for Norway?

Because the Norwegians, being smart people, has decided long time ago that one must pay their public servants modestly.
If you want to make the big money – go into the business, invent something, take a risk and if you strike rich we will tax you handsomely but you still will have more money left.
If not risk taker – come work for the public sector – but you will be paid only MODESTLY. And for this reason the Norwegian teachers starting salary is just marginally higher than the retail sectors employees. And at the end of their careers their salary is just slightly over C$50,000.
The Norwegian medical doctors salaries are slightly over C$90,000 (the main reason being there are no higher paying “Norwegian” speaking countries in the world) but still $90k.

Here in Canada and especially Ontario our teachers starts with $50-55,000 (higher than the Norwegian just before retirement) and after 10 years on the jobs they are virtual members of the elite 8% club (people earning $100k+/year). Then they will retire at 56-60 and start drawing their $55-60k DB pensions (with COLA). The school boards, heath care administration, utilities and the other public service administration are full with thousand of people drawing $100,000 or more for the equivalent of light clerical work.

See this link for the police officer salaries in Sweden (one of the countries where “Vanecdotal” thinks it is working well):
http://www.thelocal.se/20140618/swedish-cops-abandon-cars-in-salary-protest
21,300 SEK/month are equivalent to C$3200/month (or C$38,400 per year)
This is the starting salary – the average one is higher – 31,200SEK/month according to Statistics Sweden for category 3450 (Police officers and detectives) and this is equivalent to C$56,500/year
This below is the salary data for one fine PC in Canada (Ontario, Waterloo):
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/dream-come-true-ex-waterloo-region-police-officer-mockingly-thanks-them-for-paid-suspension
Read and weep….

We, Canadians, are so smug. We are so superior to our neighbors to the south and we feel that we DO deserve all these fine things in life. But the economic reality that is staring at us is very different:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

See where Canada is – toward the very bottom (forth up from the bottom). This is the reality and it means that we consume much, much more than we give back to the rest of the world. The fact is that we are the small flea that sucks mostly from the bad, very big parasite USA who in his turn sucks big time from the rest of the world . In this way we sit undetected by the rest of the world – but believe me the time when the reality catches with us
is fast approaching and it will not be pretty.

Now there are only three ways to create a real wealth:
1. Dug it from the ground.
2. Harvest it from the land and from the sea
3. Use “1” and “2” to create/manufacture higher value products and to transport them to the places that want them and are ready to pay the high asking price.

We have depended on “1” and “2” for all of our almost 150 years history. The smart countries (check the link above) used “#3”.
See who is on the top and where countries like Norway, Sweden (which “Vanecdotal” likes likes) and even that “bankrupt” Greece are.

Let’s compare the #1 from the link above (Germany) with Canada. This comparison is easily done because both countries are governed similarly – federal government, provincial (10+3) / state governments (16) and then the local governments.
And yet Germany (population of 81 million) can get by with only 4.6 million public servants to provide the legendary German standard of living and even with free post-secondary education.
Here in Canada (population 35.8 million) we have 3.6+ million public servants. And in Ontario alone we have over 1.3 million public servants.
With the Germany workforce being 41 million the economy not only looks sustainable – when 8 or 9 people contribute Euro 10-13,000 each to the pot from which the salary of a single public servant is being drawn (even if 100,000 Euro), but it roars ahead and basically pulls the rest of Europe.
Here in Canada and in Ontario we have a much different situation since we do not have the workforce numbers neither the work-force quality of employment to support the present public service with grossly inflated compensation.
How can we expect to pay $100,000 each for THREE public servants from the taxes collected from TEN people in the private sector (often paid less than $50,000 each, often with limited or even no pension at all). This is practically not possible (and neither in theory) with the end results being structural deficit and ballooning public debt!

We as a country cannot get ahead if we only count on “#1” and “#2” to generate wealth. We have to use more and more “#3” but it is almost impossible as the brightest kids and students dream to become public servants (and who can blame them as all the information is available online and they can see with their own eyes who is paid what, who retires at 55-60 and who is forced to work until they drop, who travels abroad and generally lives well and “longer”)

Now “Vanecdotal” pass me something of what you were smoking as I want to forget where I am.

#239 TheLaughingCON on 08.06.15 at 2:30 pm

The post above is in regards to comment $162 (made by Vanecdotal)

#240 TRT on 08.06.15 at 2:37 pm

Alberta Oil now in the $26 USD range. Almost $18 WTI differential.

wow.

If this persists:

Goodbye Alberta!

Goodbye Loonie!

#241 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 08.06.15 at 2:44 pm

#217 chapter 9 on 08.06.15 at 12:54 pm

If junior becomes PM he will push for bilingual judges on the Supreme Court. Why do we take a census?Outside of Quebec and New Brunswick we keep flogging this dead horse call bilingualism.The population of the four western provinces and the four atlantic provinces- 12,888,000. Do you know how many speak French in the home 430,660. The demographics in this country have over whelming changed Punjabi,Cantonese,Mandarin,Tagalog make up 64.4% of the spoken language in Vancouver alone. But as taxpayers we continue to spend $2.4 Billion a year to fund this lavish,redundant program only to serve the self interest of some one who’s last name happens to be Trudeau!
2011 census
______________________________________
pourquoi?
Have to agree though its a waste when we are about to have learn Mandarin or Punjabi. I was ordered to create a technical manual in French ten years ago with words that we couldn’t even begin to envision their french counterparts. Ended up bringing in a fluent french speaking Electrical Engineer. Even he said there were not certain words to accurately describe the firmware and circuitry. In the end cost us $5500.00 just passed it on to the customer. C’est la vie

#242 Laney Domingo on 08.06.15 at 2:50 pm

Interest rates are supposed to be going up and be higher but they keep going down.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for people that go into debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars, borrowing a bunch of money for investing in stocks, real estate, renting out properties etc.

When they lose money, they knew there was risks involved. So suck it up and pay the piper.

Those of us that are stuck with low interest rates being paid on our money and always getting less are paying everyday.

Please don’t tell me to buy other investments because that is not what I can be comfortable with. Talk about extremism and radicals, we have with 0.5% Bank of Canada rate, U.S. Federal Reserve rate 0% to 0.25%, ECB, 0.05%, Bank of England 0.5%………..

#243 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.06.15 at 2:51 pm

A chill has settled on the land. Well it is Cold Lake after all and it is a good time to buy.

http://www.coldlakesun.com/2015/08/03/buyers-market-prevails-as-housing-prices-continue-to-fall

#244 pinstripe on 08.06.15 at 2:59 pm

Is Vancouver the money laundering capital in the west?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/grande-prairie-real-estate-developer-charged-with-money-laundering-1.3181721

#245 OttawaMike on 08.06.15 at 3:17 pm

gut check on 08.06.15 at 11:55 am

Dr Limebank and that other chap are the usual suspects on all of those Anti Fluoride. I have tried to buy into their reasoning but find their arguments are always flawed.

Like I said, I could not care either way. Much less equipment and material for us to deal with in water treatment.

Please explain what the dentists have to gain backing fluoridation? It seems that fluorosis is not something they make money off of.
The leaching of lead from plumbing is also an interesting deflection by the anti movement. Lead abatement programs are in effect in most municipalities and will continue W or WO F in the water.

Why do we have onerous environmental standards on lead if we could so easily prevent it by removing F. BTW, as a variable cost of our water production, the purchase of F represents such a miniscule line item, I am not clear who is making out like a bandit.

#246 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 3:20 pm

#189 saskatoon

By “we” I am speaking in a generational demographic context. Thank you for the link, although the racist commentary on the video link was quite disturbing. You are entitled to your libertarian views, of course, as we are both fortunate enough to live in a socialist democracy, comparatively speaking, and can speak freely without fear of prosecution. I actually also would prefer eventual smaller government, but to get there we need to bridge the ideological gap between extreme right & left with completely new thinking.

Surely you must benefit from some of the better aspects of socialism in your daily life? Universal health care, paved roads, OAS, CPP, private pension, social assistance, disability assistance, public education K-12, subsidized housing, policing, fire department, garbage removal/recycling, etc.

These services and safety nets for the disenfranchised and elderly and sick are all a direct result of socialist beliefs. To say none of these benefit society, or yourself in a positive way at all is difficult to believe.

#247 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 3:20 pm

#212 Gulf Breeze

“There is zero proof that raising minimum wages hurts the economy.”

again, just check out Puerto Rico.

but, really, it isn’t a matter of “evidence”, but a matter of principle:

why do YOU want to mandate how much another’s labor is worth?

shouldn’t that be up to the person who is doing the work?

isn’t it insulting…to take that freedom to choose away from them?

is it JUST to prevent someone from working, if they are WILLING to work for LESS?

See: you’ve got things backwards: you think you are punishing the evil corporations/businesses, and–while this may be true to some extent–what you’re really doing is taking away the person’s right to choose how much they offer his/her labor for.

“Why do you think Yellen and Obama are agitating for wage increases like crazy?”

probably because without minimum wage increases people might start to actually realize how valueless 14 years of public education actually are. just a hunch, though.

“Adults have to survive on the wages…”

uh…no “they” don’t; they don’t HAVE to do anything. see…herein lies the difference: nobody FORCES anybody to work for minimum wage…or ANY wage. government, however, FORCES legislation.

one necessarily involves violence; the other does not.

“If the employer can only profit if he underpays his employees, he should seek work elsewhere.”

i think you are confusing employer and employee here. seek work elsewhere? say whhhhaaa?

in any case: “underpays”? according to who? if someone chooses to work for $2.00 an hour…THAT is the EMPLOYEE’S choice…NOT the employer.

why do you want to take freedom to choose AWAY from the worker?

“All of these macho chest pounding, ‘go it alone libertarians’ profiting from others poverty, have to give THEIR heads a shake.”

so…there can’t be poor people who enjoy and love freedom? this sounds discriminating to me ;)

“The highest barrier to entry for small businesses, mom and pop restaurants, laundromats, car washes etc… are drug money launderers owners who don’t have to turn an actual profit.”

assuming you are correct here (and that’s a stretch)…just WHY does this “drug money” exist in the first place? answer: big government laws.

“In the States ‘Breaking Bad’ is the reality.”

WTF. no comment necessary here.

#248 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 3:27 pm

#236 You can’t be serious

“You libertarians all forget so easily that the concept of ownership can only exist with threats of “violence”, as you put it, from a government.”

this is completely false–you just said so yourself in the previous paragraph.

government INITIATES force; having a stick to prevent my property from being stolen/hurt is NOT the initiation of force.

there is a BIG difference here.

one way violates the non-aggression principle…the other does not.

“From your perspective, societly should only exist in order to provide you with people to protect YOUR property.”

who said this? oh right: you just did.

if people WANT to help me protect my property…why not?

if they DON’T WANT to help me protect my property…why not?

who said anything about society, as a whole, existing to protect my private property?

#249 Edward on 08.06.15 at 3:27 pm

Canadian Natural Resources blames new Alberta NDP government for their loss.

Elections have consequences. More layoffs – less investments.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canadian-natural-resources-blames-ndp-for-financial-loss-1.3181541

#250 Mark on 08.06.15 at 3:38 pm

“Those of us that are stuck with low interest rates being paid on our money and always getting less are paying everyday.

Please don’t tell me to buy other investments because that is not what I can be comfortable with.

Then your returns are always going to be limited, in this case, severely, with a one-asset strategy. Why should the government, or the central banks guarantee you a return in a specific asset class, for which you have taken little to no risk? Especially when it is obvious that the economy isn’t growing and inflation almost non-existent.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for people that go into debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars, borrowing a bunch of money for investing in stocks, real estate, renting out properties etc.

Except that such borrowing facilitates the modern economy. Without such borrowing, you couldn’t even have a return on your cash. If anything, if you have cash and want a decent interest rate on it, you should be hoping that there’s more borrowing and useful investment. Particularly businesses investment which actually creates the goods and services that keep inflation under control and preserves the value of your cash savings.

#251 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 3:41 pm

#238 TheLaughingCON

Not smoking anything actually, simply capable of critical thinking.

Where did I mention public servants…? You will see in my response to saskatoon I am a fan of eventual smaller government, as the current path we’re on as a nation is simply economically unsustainable based on demographics alone. Scandinavia is cited as an example where extreme socialism has worked comparatively well. In one breath you disparage these countries’ policies, and in the next you praise their low civil servant pay grades (compared to Canada). Which side of the coin do you prefer?

The reason those paid by the public purse in the countries cited is lower (in spite of high rates of taxation) is that the tax collected plus their state owned resource revenues is redistributed as a cradle-to grave-social safety net. In this particular policy model, that effectively has eliminated the need for “high” civil service salaries. Yes that system is not perfect either, but when standard of living, cost of living, levels of happiness, etc. are compared to Canada, those countries leave us in the dust. I am simply asking WHY, and how can be do BETTER?

We have a mix of socialism, capitalism and kleptocracy in Canada that is not working. What would you do to change this for the better?

#252 Mark on 08.06.15 at 3:41 pm

“Canadian Natural Resources blames new Alberta NDP government for their loss.”

Geez. As though commodity prices collapsing, or over-investment in their sector, the oil sands, didn’t have anything to do with it. Talk about a bunch of crybabies!

I dislike the NDP just about as much as possible. But blaming a government which has barely been in power for 2 months is completely out of line. They’re actually doing their shareholders a serious disservice by stirring the political pot.

CNRL has an absolutely valid point. The 20% corporate tax hike turned a profit to a loss and impacts future cash flow. — Garth

#253 TurnerNation on 08.06.15 at 3:41 pm

I’m seeing batman on intraday S&P chart over this week. :-0

#254 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 3:57 pm

#246 Vanecdotal

“…and can speak freely without fear of prosecution”

are you freakin’ kiddin’ me?!?!?

you can be jailed in canada for speaking “hatefully”.

let me repeat: JAILED for SPEAKING.

free speech exists precisely for views that you despise; if you don’t believe this…then you don’t really believe in free speech.

free speech doesn’t just exist for views most people “like”; in other words, it DOESN’T matter HOW hateful YOU think something is.

“…but to get there we need to bridge the ideological gap between extreme right & left with completely new thinking.”

indeed. instead of a “left” vs.”right” spectrum…i tend to think in a “freedom” vs. “tyranny” spectrum. left-wing vs. right-wing thinking is a box inside which an unfortunate number of people are trapped.

“Surely you must benefit from some of the better aspects of socialism in your daily life? ”

don’t think for a moment that “government programs” are put into place for anything other than the benefit of government itself.

asking me if i “benefit” is like asking a guy who runs a shop…if he “benefited” from the thief who just robbed someone and spent some of the “new” money.

or, it is like asking someone who has just been mugged…if they have “benefited” because the thief didn’t take ALL the money from the wallet.

in other words, if there is a benefit, i don’t want it.

i never asked for it, and i don’t need it.

FREEDOM is more important to me than any such “benefits”…than any measure (perceived or otherwise) of shiny brass rings.

additionally, many of these BENEFITS would exist WITHOUT socialist intervention.

#255 Laney Domingo on 08.06.15 at 4:00 pm

To Edward #249

You are so correct. The NDP and other like minded left, socialistic policymakers think that they are the saviors of the Canadian population.

The true facts are, you can’t force companies, people to give up their money and expect there not be consequences.

This is just like low interest rates for almost 6 years now has created real estate, bond market, stock market distortions and overvaluations.

If they think things are not good now, wait until the NDP and their policies really start to kick in.

#256 Blacksheep on 08.06.15 at 4:04 pm

Laney # 242,

“Talk about extremism and radicals, we have with 0.5% Bank of Canada rate, U.S. Federal Reserve rate 0% to 0.25%, ECB, 0.05%, Bank of England 0.5%”
——————————————
If someone knocked on your door and offered you a loan for 100k @ 3%, for whatever purpose you wanted, would you take the loan? How many, would be takers?

It seems a large % of the Cattle in the western world are either A) Already up to their eyeballs in debt or B) Scared shitless of inuring more debt, after the GFC scare.

For multiple reasons, we have reached peak consumer and the rope will not be pushed.

#257 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 4:12 pm

#224 gut check

these monopolies (as you mention above) are not part of “freedom”.

they can only be enforced in an environment where people have no right to choose–and THIS type of environment is a by-product of government interventionism.

remember: corporations have “special” legal rights “given” to them by government–in fact, corporations (technically) could not exist without government.

for example: vaccine manufacturers are protected “legally” against possible liability issues.

without these “special” rights and protections, corporations (i.e., businesses) would be less likely to engage in socially reprehensible behavior.

this is true, regardless of which side of the vaccine/gmo argument you are on.

#258 gut check on 08.06.15 at 4:15 pm

@ #220 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 1:11 pm

how’s about “crowdfunding” roads?
if people really WANT them, and see the intrinsic benefit…they will help.

this is voluntary, and does not violate the non-aggression principle.

if people don’t pony up…well, then they don’t really want roads.

government “roads”, in any case, are not by any means necessary for life, happiness, civilization.
____________________
***********************************
Well first off I do think roads are necessary for civilization, but that’s kind of beside the point.

I know, your voluntarist plan sounds really great, doesn’t it?
The trouble is that it wouldn’t be fair, either.

Let’s say a company like Allied Van Lines didn’t bother to voluntarily support the maintenance on the roads they tear up moreso than any average citizen? And it’s realistic to think that they might not pay since that would mean higher “productivity”and therefore a greater stock price.

#259 Frank on 08.06.15 at 4:19 pm

The 20% corporate tax hike turned a profit to a loss and impacts future cash flow

Taxes can’t turn a profit into a loss. They can only turn a profit into a smaller profit. You can’t tax $0.

They only posted a loss by taking a “deferred tax charge” which is a fancy way of pushing money around to back their complaints.

Now the corporate tax increase may turn out to reduce private sector investment but that’ll take time to tell. In the mean time they’re just looking for a scapegoat.

#260 gut check on 08.06.15 at 4:23 pm

#232 Godth

agreed

#261 Laney Domingo on 08.06.15 at 4:25 pm

To Blacksheep #256

Borrowing money is for suckers. Living on the edge is not my cup of tea.

Thank you, you just made my point. It does not matter if what you think or someone else thinks about this debt binge at extremely low interest rates.

It will cost you and others at some point. If you are in that camp. You may think that 2.4% 5 year mortgage rate or lower coming months is a great deal.

The name of their game is for people to be in debt until you die at any cost. If that is not extreme, radical then time will show us all.

#262 gut check on 08.06.15 at 4:28 pm

#245 Ottawa Mike

thou dost protest too much.

who is making out like a bandit? I don’t know, I was waiting for your answer to the question: Which company supplies the fluoride?

#263 MF on 08.06.15 at 4:28 pm

#256 Blacksheep on 08.06.15 at 4:04 pm

“It seems a large % of the Cattle in the western world are either A) Already up to their eyeballs in debt or B) Scared shitless of inuring more debt, after the GFC scare.

For multiple reasons, we have reached peak consumer and the rope will not be pushed.”

I don’t agree. I think most people have never been less afraid of debt as they are now. People view debt as something to make money off of now, not of servitude like it is viewed here (or historically).

Believe my millennial bum when I say NOBODY under the age of 35 believes interest rates will ever rise again.

MF

#264 Blacksheep on 08.06.15 at 4:30 pm

Fluoride in your drinking water?

Do what I did, buy a Big Berkey, PF-2 water filter that removes the fluoride and other nasties from your drinking water, while the rest of the Cattle continue consuming raw tap slew, losing IQ points by the day.

Its all about getting the competitive edge.

http://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/chloramine-pharmaceutical-pesticide-etc-results/

#265 Laney Domingo on 08.06.15 at 4:35 pm

To Mark

You are talking B.S. They use every excuse in the book to keep interest rates low.

Stock markets fell, the economy is slowing down, high oil prices, high C$ etc. etc.

We now have $45 per barrel oil prices down from $147 a barrel, stocks are at almost their peak levels 14,400 versus 15,000, Dow Jones was 18,100 now is around 17,420, Nasdqq over 5,056 passing its all time high , S&P 500 at 2,083 versus its high of 1,528 back in 2000.

A Canadian dollar at 76 cents range not 1.10 C$ to U.S. There is always some excuse to not raise interest rates.

If you give money to morons that can’t pay it back, what do you expect. Mark, you bold letters pointing out others comments is so redundant.

#266 gut check on 08.06.15 at 4:35 pm

#257 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 4:12 pm
#224 gut check

these monopolies (as you mention above) are not part of “freedom”.

they can only be enforced in an environment where people have no right to choose–and THIS type of environment is a by-product of government interventionism.

remember: corporations have “special” legal rights “given” to them by government–in fact, corporations (technically) could not exist without government.

for example: vaccine manufacturers are protected “legally” against possible liability issues.

without these “special” rights and protections, corporations (i.e., businesses) would be less likely to engage in socially reprehensible behavior.

this is true, regardless of which side of the vaccine/gmo argument you are on.
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I’m probably on the same side as you with regard to vaccines. Free choice. Absolutely 100%.

I also agree with the rest of your premise in that post.

I admit, my imagination may be my downfall here, because I’d like to see this world you envision as a possible solution to the corruption and non-free world we currently have.

When I look at the possible ways to creating communities that could actually MANAGE voluntarism I can’t see where it would be any more just than the one we currently inhabit… We’d all simply switch hats.

What would sick people do in such a system? Who would defend us from invaders? (and no, I am not one to fall for the terror propaganda but let’s be realistic – there would be criminals in your world, too) Are you aware that it pretty much sounds like you’re devising a system whereby one dollar = one vote, and therefore people with less $$ automatically have less say in their lives?

#267 Laney Domingo on 08.06.15 at 4:41 pm

Look at this here, NDP Notley on BNN, http://www.bnn.ca. is making excuses again about higher taxes does not impact corporate profits and impact job losses.

It has only been a few months in power and the NDP is already having a real economic impact. What a surprise!Sarcastically speaking! What a joke of a government!

#268 Doberdog on 08.06.15 at 4:45 pm

Fed will be “one and done” this fall with maybe another 1/4 point in the spring. The high US dollar is hitting US firms selling overseas, hitting US stock prices. Too much uncertainty in the world, Canada included to see one market, the US, run away when China is slipping, Europe is still in turmoil etc. The fallout of 2008 is still with us for years to come… Canada will be in a low interest rate environment for years to come.

#269 devore on 08.06.15 at 4:45 pm

#76 gut check

Fluoride is bad for humans. up until a year or two after Harper became PM you could read a lengthy Health Canada report about it online.

Completely out in the open – no hidden rooms at all. Why would they bother, when they’ve got the majority trained to believe that the government is here to help and would never do anything contrary to that?

Unless you’re deep into conspiracy theory, Harper’s and other politicians families drink the same water we do, breath the same air, and eat the same food. So it’s a little hard to believe all this tin foil hat stuff.

#270 Practical_Logical on 08.06.15 at 4:47 pm

This Canadian Society is bulit upon consumer consumption to propel the economy forward

Millenials are now the largest generation population wise.

They have so little purchasing power which makes their demographic the least indebted because they do not have well paying jobs to take on debt.

The powers that be here need to keep the consumption and the economy growing.

Therefore there has to be gov’t stimulis to create the condition for well paying and or affordable living so this (millenial) generation can continue the consumption game of the boomers which BTW are very quickly on their way out.

The powers that be have selected the NDP to fulfill this task.

#271 Shawn on 08.06.15 at 4:57 pm

Seeing Batman?

#253 TurnerNation on 08.06.15 at 3:41 pm said:

I’m seeing batman on intraday S&P chart over this week. :-0

*********************************
Seek help.

People always see patterns where none exist and where they certainly do not predict the future.

Reading Tea leaves, Astrology and Technical Analysis can all be harmful practices if taken seriously.

#272 Fred Murtz on 08.06.15 at 5:10 pm

“Geez. As though commodity prices collapsing, or over-investment in their sector, the oil sands, didn’t have anything to do with it. Talk about a bunch of crybabies!

I dislike the NDP just about as much as possible. But blaming a government which has barely been in power for 2 months is completely out of line. They’re actually doing their shareholders a serious disservice by stirring the political pot.

CNRL has an absolutely valid point. The 20% corporate tax hike turned a profit to a loss and impacts future cash flow. — Garth”

Dippers raising taxes during a depression in the one business that provides any hope of saving the province from utter ruin was the stupidest thing anyone could have possibly done….but the Dippers done did it.

It’s like coming into a hospital and shooting the doctors. But now the Dips want to have us believe that the next budget will be a ‘job creator’…bwahahahahahahahaaha…with what?

#273 45north on 08.06.15 at 5:27 pm

Holy Crap Wheres the Tylenol: I was ordered to create a technical manual in French ten years ago with words that we couldn’t even begin to envision their french counterparts.

there is a great deal of material that should not be translated. Here’s a Saskatchewan Soil Report:

http://sis.agr.gc.ca/cansis/publications/surveys/sk/sk011/sk011_report.pdf

to insist on “translating everything” is sheer laziness. Anyone working on doing the translation realizes that nobody wants to read the translation

here’s a report in French:

http://sis.agr.gc.ca/siscan/publications/surveys/pq/pq8a/pq8a_report.pdf

#274 Nora Lenderby on 08.06.15 at 5:37 pm

#151 saskatoon on 08.06.15 at 12:11 am
…is it morally just to forcibly medicate the most impoverished of people? shouldn’t this be a choice for them? let me guess…you have made up your mind…and are doing it “for their own good”?

Yes. Fluoride, chlorine. Vaccines. Fortified flour, vitamins in milk, and public health in general.

This is what responsible governments (at all levels) should do.

(OttawaMike: your gallant fight against the forces of unreason is noted, but you’re wasting time arguing with someone who is wrong on the Internet :-)

#275 Vanecdotal on 08.06.15 at 5:51 pm

#238 TheLaughingCON

Just re-read your link to World Account Balances, thank you that is eye-opening.

As you stated, Canada ranks, #190, 4th from bottom. That’s atrocious. (To borrow a Polozism)

Norway ranks #10, Sweden # 14.

Germany #1, and in my opinion are also doing some things right. Interestingly, they also have an established and extensive socialist safety net there, worker unions are commonplace in their powerhouse manufacturing sector, yet this is a system that also includes aspects of conservatism. They are an interesting study in opposite ideologies working reasonable well together.

So that’s where Canada ranks after 8 years of a “Conservative” government, preceded by several Liberal governments, and back & forth between these 2 parties (ideological speaking) to the beginnings of our country. NDP, arguably the “most” left of center option has never held the reins federally (nor any other “extreme left” government), yet look where we are today.

What have we been doing wrong the last 150 years to get us to this point in time?

#276 family beagle on 08.06.15 at 6:33 pm

“If the employer can only profit if he underpays his employees, he should seek work elsewhere.”

For you, the confused worker, as well as for our gracious host, and for the wise person from Saskatoon, I sprinkle some seed to the whiskeyjacks, spark a bowl of kinnikinnick, and pen a lament in the spirit of the buffalo…

To the Worker,
May you have good teeth
To make soft moccasins

May you have good wifi
To busy youself when not at work

May you enjoy security
Instead of the fears of freedom

May your debts amortize
Before your demise

May your cheque come
Yes, may your cheque still come

Cast out the innovators, entrepeneurs and designers,
send them fleeing to far away tropical climes
leave the hallowed worker to his toil in peace
Leave the valiant worker to his labour,
without purpose, and yet for a higher wage,
paid by someone,
whom he/she has still to determine.

Yes, hail the worker, who would sit stunned,
happily staring at passing ducks,
lest some manipulative doer conscript them
to actually apply effort.

May ye stave off starvation, oh worker,
As once again, the pioneers of profit
and endeavor
make ready their vessels and set sail
for new lands and lower
cost of goods sold.
Adieu, fair worker, alas
I am an inventor, a manufacturer,
And so thus,
we now part.
Fare well.

#277 OttawaMike on 08.06.15 at 7:20 pm

264 Blacksheep on 08.06.15 at 4:30 pm
“it’s all about the competitive edge”

“Losing IQ points by the day”

Your cartridge has blocked and bypassing for a long time. Better change it :)

#278 gut check on 08.06.15 at 9:39 pm

@ #269 devore on 08.06.15 at 4:45 pm

Unless you’re deep into conspiracy theory, Harper’s and other politicians families drink the same water we do, breath the same air, and eat the same food. So it’s a little hard to believe all this tin foil hat stuff.

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namecalling loses every time.

#279 Godth on 08.07.15 at 1:24 am

#263 MF on 08.06.15 at 4:28 pm
Who cares what you, or your friends believe about future interest rates (or anything else) really. The broad strokes are somewhat discernible, everything else is fancy.

#280 Gringo on 08.07.15 at 3:15 pm

Watch-
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-fluoride-deception/