Derek and Sherry sold their townhouse in the burbs of Toronto for $680,000 and bought a renovated semi in 416 for $925,000. The land transfer tax added $29,200 to the purchase price. “That sure hurt,” Derek says. “I wish somebody had told us.” But what hurt more was the $34,000 they paid in commission (5%) to sell.
Between the two, more than $63,000 was spent with nothing to show. “Worse,” adds Derek, “was the thought that the people we bought from paid another $47,000 in commission, which they probably added to the sale price. So did we just get screwed out of $110,000?”
Maybe. And now they can look forward to years of escalating property taxes and rising mortgage rates.
But let’s talk just about realtors for a moment. There are about 110,000 in the country, of which almost 40,000 roam the streets of the GTA alone. This is double the number of a decade ago, making it (hands down) the fastest growing job category in Canada. But what else would you expect in a country where manufacturing has shrunk, we’re running a giant trade deficit, people think debt is wealth and a quarter of the economy is based on house lust?
It’s estimated Canadians have handed over $47.9 billion in realtor commissions in the past decade of this boom, with $12 billion of that in the GTA alone. But let’s also remember that most realtors are one commission cheque away from failure. It’s believed that between 75% and 80% of all commissions go to just two in ten agents. They’re the Audi-driving realty rock stars. The rest worry about their monthly desk rent.
Still, as this boom continues (albeit in only two major cities now), with prices romping as the Bank of Canada cuts, the whole real estate industry’s in a titanic struggle with itself. It’s hard to imagine realtors won’t inevitably go the way of travel agents, thousands of whom have been replaced by a single, sexy Trivago guy.
As I told you a few weeks ago, the Toronto Real Estate Board (the continent’s largest such cartel) will be in court in a few weeks, trying to defend the indefensible. The feds’ Competition Bureau is pushing ahead with a case that could forever alter the real estate landscape, forcing TREB to make market data available to those who think consumers should have it.
Realtor rules currently say a potential buyer can be told the sales history of a property (previous selling prices, price changes, days-on-market etc.) only when he or she is the actual client of an agent. A broker can’t just publish recent or past selling prices on his web site, the way Americans do. (In fact, Zillow or Trulia tell you the values of all homes on a street, a multi-year history of every listing, annual property taxes, average prices by Zip code or neighbourhood and even provide suggested ‘proper’ market prices of subject properties.)
Brokers who try it (and several have) get whacked. The cartel sent a letter to members last month (we quoted it) saying if they sinned, their feed to all MLS data would be severed. As a result, several – like Zoocasa and Toronto Homes Sold – caved. This will all change if TREB loses its legal case, but in the meantime evolution happens.
For example, brokerage TheRedPin has cooked up a plan that could save homeowners half of the commission they now pay. If a seller lists their home with these online guys and at the same time engages them to buy a new one, half of the listing commission will be rebated upon closing. Interesting, but awkward. Most people either buy before selling (“Jimmy, where will we live if we sell and can’t find another house…?”) or do the opposite (“But Shelly, if we buy and can’t sell and have to carry two houses, we’re screwed…”).
Meanwhile the people behind the Toronto Real Estate Sold Report are going one better – online listings with commission-less sales. Well, technically you’re supposed to pay what you want to. But, you know…
“Today we are officially launching a one-of-a-kind brokerage service … the Pay-What-You-Want MLS® listing. Our Feeless MLS® Listing is a solution for you to list, promote and manage the sale of your property at a cost determined by you. While other real estate brokerages contract for substantial percentage fees, our mission is to empower our clients to realize more — both figuratively and literally. The price you pay for our MLS® listing, marketing and agency services is completely up to you.”
See what I mean? It’s an industry with serious issues. In a digital world where you know everything about Kim Kardashian’s rump, whole organizations are trying to blind you to data surrounding the biggest purchase of a lifetime. Why? So agents retain relevance and power, then lay claim to 5% of your asset’s value.
Now, I’ve argued in the past that all buyers should have an agent assisting them (but don’t sign a BRA – ever). I’ve also said FSBOs are mostly greedy sellers who don’t want to pay commission, but still price their properties as if they were. All this is still true. Your chances of getting laundered are high. Plus, sellers without an agent usually settle for a lower sale price. The savings are nebulous, at best.
In short, there’s a role for realtors, other than making politicians, lawyers and CRA auditors feel loved. But without deep reform, most are doomed. Stop smiling.
262 comments ↓
Realtors are sometimes disgusting!
Lol
Underwater realtors would be wonderful. Can’t believe what they get away with. Totally ripe for a game changer to their “industry”. So difficult when everyone has so much of their net worth tied up in their house – makes them totally beholden to them. 5% commission is ridiculous.
First!!
Yeehaw!
I would love to see complete transparency about sale price and sale price history on properties. In the information age there simply is no reason not to make this information available to the public. People ostensibly make better decisions when they have access to all the relevant information.
Please Garth let us know when is the time to start shorting the sub-prime lenders…maybe even the big 5.
We all hate agents so I’m guessing there will be a ton of messages today.
I had this idea once of making a website where people would just trade houses. Its based on this idea from a UK CH4 doc on people on benefits trading state supplied housing among each other. The whole thing would work with a couple of people: web programmers, some appraisers and home inspectors, maybe a lawyer. The site would allow people to swap a houses with maybe some extra cash to make things even. No commissions since there would be no agents. Can’t be worse than the system we have now.
Can’t wait for the reformation!
First?
Land transfer tax? What an alien concept to this Albertan. Is it municipal or provincial? It is a hefty amount. What could possibly be the rationale other than if it moves, tax it.
Take it to the streets.
Realtor(TM)(R)(C) story from this weekend.
Friend wants to see a condo (I know, I’ve tried) in a building that she’s got her heart set on. She doesn’t have a Realtor on her side, so she calls up the listing agent and to arrange a viewing. Pretty simple.
Long story short and the inevitable happens; this guy rocks up, gives her a 90 minute death-by-PowerPoint about how his shit don’t stink, how she knows nothing and he will save the day, tries to rope in the friend with her (who is happy renting) to buying too, and talks down to both of them.
It gets better… he whips out a BRA with a ONE YEAR holdover period! For one unit she’s interested in that day! Pressures her to sign it, won’t explain in detail what it entails. She refuses, he refuses to show her the unit.
Oh, and this guy is based in a town about one hour’s drive away from where she wants to buy too. What use a Realtor on a one-year BRA an hour away from where you’re looking is I have no idea… unless he’s hoping she’ll go it alone and he’ll get his cut in the courtroom later – just like that Brampton dude last year.
FWIW, the listing is abysmal too. Every Word Capitalized And Didn’t Even Do Dishes Before Taking Pictures Of The Kitchen.
I was raging and this deal has nothing to do with me!
Garth sire. You are fantastic soul who loves this country and it’s countrymen.
I am not sure how many times you have been proven wrong but still persistent to your beliefs that RE is messing up common people and their finances.
They are not doomed. It is called greed and they are finding newest ways to lure potential buyers. Realtors are most greedy species in canada and will lie their Butt out to deceive buyer just to sell a home and make easy money. I wish we had more people like you here who were sitting in offices instead of our current incompetent breed who have no integrity and donot feel their responsibility towards their countrymen, who are giving a new shower of debt to this system every other day.
no vision, no plans for creating jobs but only interested in getting re-elected. They will make Canada a begger in developed countries but guess what who cares, they will have 3 no ugh money in their shorts.
So respect to you sire. True respect for you.
“….the land transfer tax added $29,200 to the purchase price. That sure hurt….”
*********************
And another reason the feds want to keep this circus going. Lots of moola being transferred into their coffers with every sale and every purchase all across Canada.
Double the costs in Ontario….they gotcha comin’ and goin’.
“Most Canadians are also financial basket cases with a one-asset strategy, no liquidity, no plan and epic debt. Your point?”
Responsible leadership is supposed to try and avoid this kind of economic mess via monetary and fiscal policies. In this situation – where, for one example, the BoC made a mistake – isn’t it extremely reputationally risky to make hard predictions based on common sense?
I also have no faith in the savoir faire of the Fed or “top economists”.
I consider your blog a valuable public service. I don’t want you to end up with your credibility seriously impaired just in case the Fed – makes a mistake too.
Let me cite the Diefenbaker/Coyne debacle as an example of how crazy things can get.
With the internet, buyers agents are not necessary. The offer system could be automated online, like Ebay for example. In the next 10 years the RE industry will change greatly. Commissions will be a fraction of what they are now.
I just wish we could get the feds onside with Uber. Why they allow the protection of the taxi industry with this bogus limited licensing I have no idea.
Realtors do have their place. I.e. commercial sales which can be overwhelming for many buyers and sellers. TREB is stripping and denying the consumer of their rights to knowledge of their own buying and selling power. That goes against the spirit of the democratic society we pride ourselves upon. Being a realtor started out as a way for bored housewives to make extra money. It’s become a career choice for the greedy and in many cases, ruthless individuals. I’m looking very forward to the outcome of the court case. May the rights of the Canadian people win.
[…] Source: http://www.greaterfool.ca/2015/03/08/revolting-realtors/ […]
What I really like is that Zillow will even give me an estimated fair price for a rental as well!
#10 Washed Up Lawyer on 03.08.15 at 2:18 pm
Land transfer tax? What an alien concept to this Albertan. Is it municipal or provincial? It is a hefty amount. What could possibly be the rationale other than if it moves, tax it.
Take it to the streets.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A provincial land transfer tax and a separate municipal land transfer tax in the centre of the universe (Toronto).
$38.4K in commission with the HST
I was just reading a 12-page Standard and Poor’s research report on the oil sector.
Plastered all over the report was the phrase “Past performance is not indicative of future results.” Essentially every single graph and table that showed prices, deal value, production, demand, performance, spreads, and convertible debt swaps has the disclaimer.
At the same time, data taken from third-parties was wholly attributed.
Contrast this with the state of market data for Canadian real estate – the two are diametrically-opposed.
By the time this whole Canadian real estate “item” is “sorted out”, there likely will be legislation enacted to create greater transparency (the degree to which the legislation will succeed is up to debate). In the meantime, the data quality in Canada is appalling. Between the banks, the realtors, the CMHC, and the government, there is the ability to transparently characterize essentially the entire marketplace… if they so desired.
The rub is that creating transparency will (by definition) reduce the opacity and information asymmetry advantages held by those who have been gaining the most under the current regime. They will fight tooth and nail against change.
Cue up the Competition Tribunal…
As always, everyone else’s mileage may vary.
Career wise, I see similarities between most real estate agents and players in the CFL.
Sure, there’s a handful of line backers who get a reasonable salary, but for the vast majority the pay is skimpy, the season short and the risks great.
It’s also imperative to their survival that they find other work in the off season.
Ending B.C.’s property transfer tax is ‘long-term plan,’ Clark says
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ending-bcs-property-transfer-tax-is-long-term-plan-clark-says/article23068277/
“I’ve also said FSBOs are mostly greedy sellers who don’t want to pay commission, but still price their properties as if they were.”
In the Okanagan FSBOs go one step further, they figure out what their home is worth, then add 30%.
http://www.okhomeseller.com/Content/Okanagan-BC-real-estate.asp#60KA
This site is an example of one hosting FSBOs and most of the listings are very stale (over 2 years). Not a wonder when they are grossly over-priced!
Purchasing a home with an agent is worthwhile, keeping in mind they don’t always tell the truth.
When we purchased in Phoenix we had a great agent, although with all the information online all he had to do was arrange the showings we pre-selected.
The agent we use in Kelowna is pretty good, but still only trust him so far.
We would never sign a BRA or anything similar and he was okay with that.
Great title for today’s Post when read in the correct way.
Well, in my opinion, the purchase of a house is the biggest purchase of a lifetime for a woman. For a man, the biggest purchase of a lifetime is a wedding ring. If anyone says this though they are called a misogynist as all of the facts as to why this are true are hidden and not to be talked about, as the system does the best to try and hide this fact much the way the RE industry is trying to screw over the consumer even more than they already are by hiding the facts they want hidden.
What is really being practiced in our society is Misandry. Mockery of men is taking place everywhere you look. Fact. I don’t care, as I always put my own Freedom First. No wife, no live-in girlfriend, no kids, no alimony, no child support payments, and no court system to deal with robbing me of my rights. It’s all about me, and of course, #2, helping others. Living in freedom, Freedom First.
In short, there’s a role for realtors, other than making politicians, lawyers and CRA auditors feel loved.
—————————————————————————-
Let’s not leave out financial advisers and public sector workers ;)
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I really think that the Trivago guy should maybe book one of those hotel rooms that he is talking about and use the shower in it to clean up a bit before shooting his next commercial!
More anecdotal evidence that things are out of control in Raincouver. A “couple friend” of ours, he’s a pharmacist for the company that Loblaws purchased not too long ago and she’s on maternity leave fresh with baby approaching his first birthday, just took to Instagram to share the news of the purchase of a $7000 Chanel handbag. With a million dollar home, two car payments, a couple of vacations and childcare conveivably on the horizon there must be something missing that I don’t understand! The only thing I can think of is 5% down and HELOC all the way to the bank. Sigh…sign of the times…
#PrenticeBlamesAlbertans @twitter . It’s the voters fault for the fiscal mess in alberta . And some are buying his coolaid . The cut man cometh .
I have been a Real Estate Broker in the GTA for 19 years and absolutely love my work! I get paid well because I offer an excellent service to my Clients! I made much more money by buying and renting out Real Estate than selling it! I am worth every penny of what I am paid in commissions! It is a really really tough job and that’s why the top 5 percent of us make 95 percent of the money! People need and should always have a great agent like myself representing them, the online and discount agents are fighting to stay alive by cutting their pay and that strategy has never worked and never will! Long live and prosper the great real estate agents like myself!!!!! Garth I really enjoy your blog!
This is what transparency does to the market:
$329K – Cape Coral. Florida (transparency)
http://bit.ly/1ATzTJL
$325K – Toronto. Ontario (no transparency)
http://bit.ly/1wRVyXS
#10 Washed Up Lawyer
“Take it to the streets.”
that is funny!!!
http://i.imgur.com/1Ns7XO6.jpg
Isn’t this type of business called MAFIA?
How can it be legal unless the government itself has lost its way?
Poor Realters.
I used to do my mother’s taxes, and was astounded at the overhead costs for Toronto-area realteers, with TReB, RECO, and various other fees, not to mention fees for “conferences” day-long meetings in hotel ballrooms where service providers to the RE industry flog software, printing, dashcams, web page design and other services to the 80% of realters desperate for any ‘edge’ in profitability, and with few enough listings to be free to attend a day long trade show.
Most are already underwater.
Realtor’s are one step above car salesmen. They don’t have a clue of market dynamics, and frankly they do not deserve to make anywhere newar 100-250k printing up mls sheets. Every time they use there buzzwords of ‘pricepoint’ and ‘market comparisons’ I want to puke. They are fighting a losing battle- It’s called the internet and the MLS listing service will be overrun. That is all they have.
You want to talk about another racket going on, all legal too:
“Effective July 1, 2014, the Real Estate Council of Alberta (RECA) will require industry members who establish a client relationship when trading in residential real estate, property management, or when dealing in mortgages to enter into a written service agreement with that client. Written service agreements help ensure the role of an industry professional is clear , and when clients are better informed, there is less confusion and typically, fewer disputes.”
http://www.reca.ca/consumers/information/written-service-agreements.htm
You say in the article: FSBOs are mostly greedy sellers who don’t want to pay commission.
Who, in their right mind want to Give 5% of their total home’s sale to a realtor? I’ve sold many properties, they open the door and put an ad up. It doesn’t near warrant what they take.
As I wrote, they are greedy not to want to pay commission, but pricing their properties as if they were. Never, ever buy from a FSBO. — Garth
@#32 A realtor
Wow! Every sentence you wrote ended with an exclamation mark! You rock! Keep up the good work! Prepare for a downturn in business! Lower commisions are inevitable! Bye bye!
Wait until John Tory gets finished. I can see more taxes on real estate, property taxes, water bill and garbage fee increases of 10% yearly, higher land transfer taxes, maybe a 1% sales tax on sale and purchase of a property.
I can even even see a possible driveway tax which of course they will disguise as something else.
Summer has arrived. Harley’s out. Convertibles out. Patios jammed. Party on. Maybe we modified the weather with aluminium chemtrails… To freeze out the easterners.
Last time I bought a house the realtor asked what I wanted to spend. I of course answered, zero. To which he laughed.
Zero I replied was optimal. But I said we will look at places and always remember that closest to zero for what I want is what I’m willing to pay.
That was a few years ago. When horny millenials couldn’t even get approved to lease a car. And Chrysler couldn’t lease you one if they wanted to.
Thinking we will get there again in a few years. Or less if you live in Alberta.
By the way. That realtor worked for every penny. Very knowledgable. Did everything I asked with no bra which I had earlier declined.
Good realtors will always survive. They don’t push and generally hide nothing. Salaries of course will take a hit. Internet will eventually crush margins. No getting away from it.
Royal Pacific realtor in Vancouver ended up screwing his vendor out of $100,000 ( yes, 100 large ones )
Can anyone guess what the penalty was……
YUP, 2 weeks licence suspension,$1000 fine and had to take two courses on ethics as well as return the 100 grand.
Its time for evolution to take hold and make them go extinct.
BEYOND BELIEVE.
Honest question: I’m a pretty clever guy (my Mom told me so.) Is there any downside to getting my Realtor’s license and selling a home or two during these crazy times while the getting is good?
can someone please explain why signing a BRA Is bad?
md: In short, once you sign the BRA you basically guarantee that you will pay that Realtor commission – even if they do absolutely nothing for you.
Poloz squirms: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/how-stephen-poloz-changed-canadas-central-banking-game/article23347410/
Love the doctor anecdote. Here’s mine:
I went to the doctor, told him I had this and that from cancer to hives – he suggested the same cure for everything – the guy is a moron!
The cure? Cut rates, increase private debt.
ps is this what passes for journalism? It’s really bad. Sycophantic.
@ #33 Eric, One is price in CAD, the other USD. At least a 60k CAD difference. Plus, what about property taxes, desirability of location etc. But I love the example, I’d love to see more of these at different price ranges.
Few years ago had a conversation with Bill McMullan of Viewpoint Realty in NS, re Viewpoint/Zillow/Trulia (before Zillow bought it)
His take based on the US example was it doesn’t really affect the Residential Sales People too much,(the good ones still prosper) but does empower the purchaser so they are far more knowledgeable about specific markets /pricing trends/crime/taxes/etc.
Still a requirement for house sales people in the process. They just cant spin BS.
TREB’s fight with the GOC is simply proving their allegiance is internal not customer based. So we are paying huge commissions for ?
Derek and Sherry sold their townhouse in the burbs of Toronto for $680,000 and bought a renovated semi in 416 for $925,000….
Poor things, it makes me cry… And what about those folks who bought their basic townhouse for $680K? Where they scaling up, or they were first time buyers, a young family? Just think about it, they were paid $680K for burb townhouse… I can’t find words…
Nice work Garth! You just took 50% of the revenues away from Endless Pool.
Well this is all going to get interesting…
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/suspect-in-nemtsov-killing-blows-himself-up-report/article23351569/
#22 Another Albertan
+++
Agree with your entire post. Can’t believe I’m saying this but am actually rooting for the Feds in this particular case.
Now for a nice cleansing Silkwood shower…
#26 Freedom First
“No wife, no live-in girlfriend, no kids, no alimony, no child support payments, and no court system to deal with robbing me of my rights. It’s all about me, and of course, #2, helping others. Living in freedom, Freedom First.”
NO ONE CARES. You claim to “help others”, yet all you post here is narcissistic self-congratulatory, often gender-slagging stream of consciousness.
Try contributing something USEFUL to the conversation, i.e: helping others.
By the way Garth, this whole thing of RE agents and government fighting over the data is a damn dog and pony show.
You pay the land transfer tax, and register ownership change with government. That means they have every sale price, paid price and date of sale on record. Please explain to me why they need to ask the board’s permission to just release
“Derek and Sherry sold their townhouse in the burbs of Toronto for $680,000 and bought a renovated semi in 416 for $925,000. The land transfer tax added $29,200 to the purchase price. “That sure hurt,” Derek says. “I wish somebody had told us.” But what hurt more was the $34,000 they paid in commission (5%) to sell.”
Like they didn’t know.
You believe this and I got a huge bridge to sell you here in Las Vegas.
Most people (like these) are well aware of the commission payable. LTT, however, is usually a bomb. — Garth
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY! — “The one who cannot see that on Earth a big endeavor is taking place, an important plan, on which realization we are allowed to collaborate as faithful servants, certainly has to be blind.” — Winston Churchill (wrh.com)
#320 SWL1976 on 03.08.15 at 1:38 pm — “Remember a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, and the truth is the truth even if nobody believes it”, #321 SWL1976 on 03.08.15 at 1:53 pm and #313 Panhead on 03.08.15 at 12:30 pm — “Our illustious Premier Christie Clarke was charging to park in our Provincial parks a few years ago. OUR parks.”— “Remember, if the corporations don’t already own everything… They soon will”
Don’t forget B.C.’s water (she was never elected to do this) — The only reason for the CC – GW – GC nonsense. Change and the climate are two constants here, and the climate is always going to change, no matter what.
If sheeple have been duped into the black hole of nothingness (ever wonder why ISIS rebels never fire at the Israelis?), or Sadaam’s non-existent nuke WMD, The authorities are our friends!, Bankers Love Austerity, Politics is fair — NOT! then they have already shown that they are suckers for eternal punishment (which they deserve), so bring on a socialist-based world encompassed with Agenda 21, privatizing the profits.
Instead of a realtor hire a RE lawyer…that simple.
He will take/make an offer and even do your conveyance of title.
With the advent of internet realtor people are simply redundant.
Thoroughly bad advice. — Garth
#16 BS
“I just wish we could get the feds onside with Uber. Why they allow the protection of the taxi industry with this bogus limited licensing I have no idea.”
The taxi mafia is an all cash business. Lots of money goes in brown paper envelopes to local officials and then hastily sent to overseas accounts.
I’m renting from a taxi plate landlord. So I know exactly whats going on as i pretend to be a Uber hater.
Commissions are negotiable. Never paid over 2%.
#52 TRT on 03.08.15 at 6:48 pm
Commissions are negotiable. Never paid over 2%.
****************************************
Not that simple.
If you offer too low of a commish there won’t be any other agents contacting your agent to show the property.
Underlying message…..realtors want to make big dough and nothing but.
Again , this has to change, especially now that house prices are outright stupid.
#60 TRT on 03.08.15 at 6:46 pm
#16 BS
“I just wish we could get the feds onside with Uber. Why they allow the protection of the taxi industry with this bogus limited licensing I have no idea.”
The taxi mafia is an all cash business. Lots of money goes in brown paper envelopes to local officials and then hastily sent to overseas accounts.
I’m renting from a taxi plate landlord. So I know exactly whats going on as i pretend to be a Uber hater.
#61 TRT on 03.08.15 at 6:48 pm
Commissions are negotiable. Never paid over 2%.
———————————————————-
Well you proved one thing you are not only Cheap you are two Faced
We certainly lack honesty and integrity in this country. The show must go on and who cares about the small guy as long as “I” get my way and make money.
BRA is bad because you signed an agreement with the realtor for a certain amount of time (on paper signed) also if you buy house with a different realtor during that time you, the buyer, have to pay both realtors. It is not worth signing because who knows what happens when looking around. BRA (Buyers Realtors Agreement) is good for the realtor, bad for the buyer, usually. My take on it.
Anyways, my dad always said not to sign anything without a lawyer. Remember that.
#55 Vanecdotal on 03.08.15 at 6:35 pm
#26 Freedom First
“No wife, no live-in girlfriend, no kids, no alimony, no child support payments, and no court system to deal with robbing me of my rights. It’s all about me, and of course, #2, helping others. Living in freedom, Freedom First.”
NO ONE CARES. You claim to “help others”, yet all you post here is narcissistic self-congratulatory, often gender-slagging stream of consciousness.
Try contributing something USEFUL to the conversation, i.e: helping others.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vanecdotal,don’t waste your time .
I challenged this person about 3 months ago to write something original and have learnt nothing off the guy except that he is a real piece of work.
I either want fellow posters to teach me something ,change my thought process or make me laugh .
Freedom first’s drivel does none of the above .
Scroll baby scroll.
#29 Paully
We always joke that the Trivago guy looks like he just came off a 3 day bender & showed up for call that day, lol.
Disruption is usually greatest when least expected.
The crippled MSM has become more and more a shadow of its former self.
So, everyone, do take note of the tiny headline on the right side of the front page of The Toronto Star today.
( Note to Readers: )
http://www.thestar.com
Digital subscriptions are cancelled in three weeks, April 1.
Everything will be free online. Everything.
So the biggest paper in the country has decided to stop wrestling the others over this half-assed business model, has broken free and is now committed to a dash to the finish line.
Suddenly, 2015 is looking like a Wile E. Coyote moment for the media, per Friday’s picture and post here by Garth.
This won’t end well for many in the media.
I am guessing the Toronto Sun and possibly National Post will be kaput very soon. Multiply this across the country in all kinds of markets.
How the role of real estate advertising plays into all this will be interesting to observe.
Major disruption dead ahead in the media…if it can happen there, it can happen to the real estate industry too, just as Garth suggests.
“….won’t inevitably go the way of travel agents, thousands of whom have been replaced by a single, sexy Trivago guy.”
***********************
Travel agents are not trustworthy. A few years ago, a travel agency quoted us CAD prices — exchange was already factored in. Then, the incompetents drew contract up on USA papers. We were effectively charged exchange TWICE. I reported this to BBB. But BBB only mediates. It wasn’t worth a lawsuit. We both lost $450 each. Buyer beware.
#61 TRT
“Commissions are negotiable. Never paid over 2%.”
True, within some limits. My Realtor sold my house for a very reasonable flat fee, with the proviso that when I purchased, please consider using him as the buying agent, although we signed no agreement to that end. He realized the selling agent doesn’t do much besides planting a sign out front and putting some flattering pictures on the website.
However he advised against messing with the standard 3.5/1.5 paid to buying agents here in Alberta (or whatever it was). He suggested that if you lower the buyer’s agent’s commission, a lot of agents simply won’t show your house. I know that sounds pretty terrible, but it’s how incentives interact with the meat in our heads.
The only way sellers are going to lower the buyer’s agent’s commission is if all sellers were to agree somehow not to pay say more than 2%. But then we’d probably end up getting sued for collusion.
And I can definitely say my Realtor did all the work on the buying side. Sure, he got the house sold but really we didn’t see him much it was mostly other Realtors bringing people to see it. On the buy side though, we probably put him through 75+ viewings before we thought we had the right house at a price we were willing to pay. He even went and viewed houses we were interested in without us and reported back “no you don’t want this one” or “you should see it”. Part of that was just him wanting to know what was on the market at what price, but it was nice to know that he wasn’t showing us junk.
That is another trick Realtors use that I hate. They always show you 5 to 10 terrible and overpriced houses first before they show you anything nice. I know they are just trying to set expectations, but please. What a waste of time. My first agent did that, but the guy I am talking about above only showed us houses we were interested in. Obviously most of those didn’t work out either, MLS just doesn’t show the whole story.
But anyway my point is the buyer’s agent does most of the work. He’s (or she’s) the one who finds the suitable listings, he’s the one who conducts the viewings, he’s the one who points out the various features of the property (good and hopefully bad), and he’s the one who suggests the bidding strategy based on the history of the listing.
In the case of the house we bought, he pointed out how long it had been on the market and how much the price had been reduced, suggesting a low-ball offer but “hit him right in the eyes” with quick possession, no financing clause, and a 1% threshold for the inspection (essentially saying the deal would go through if accepted).
And I can also say he took the time to get to know us, what we were looking for, and didn’t try and sell us on houses that didn’t fit the bill.
So in my opinion he earned his money. He still got paid well, but he earned it.
He was one of those Realtors Garth says are worth hiring.
So if you are buying (or selling) in Calgary and area, contact Bill Brandsma. (And no, he did not write this and I am not him.)
Same goes for car salespeople… I know how to find and scrutinize a car. The last thing I need is some wise-cracking high-school dropout wasting my time with stupid sales tricks from the 1970s, all the while pumping the dealer’s gross as he darts in and out of the sales manager’s office to ensure I get the hosing of a lifetime.
Uber-like change to dinosaur industries? I say bring it on!
Oh, and Freedom First, sorry but you sound like the saddest individual I can imagine…
@ILoveCharts #45 re: “Honest question: I’m a pretty clever guy (my Mom told me so.) Is there any downside to getting my Realtor’s license and selling a home or two during these crazy times while the getting is good?”
Honest answer: that depends. It is a competitive business as Garth and all the dogs know. Clever is good, but lustful female buyers, bored in their current dwellings, have high expectations. Are you hot?
Someone paid $680K for a townhouse in the suburbs… Oh my lord….and they paid $925K for a semi. Wow. I hope it has parking and more than one bathroom. There really is no words for the stupidity that is out there.
#3 Smoked squirrel meat: “5% commission is ridiculous.”
**********************
Buying and selling to each other is ridiculous. Paying realtor fees…to move across the highway??? How’s THAT for ‘stupid’?
If people had to pay cash for houses I don’t think they would be handing over suitcases with almost a million in them for semi’s in Toronto. I would probably grab the bag hold it close to my chest and start running far far away.
Should privacy rights be abrogated by the right to know?
Should anyone know your financial history…because they “have the right” to know?
That’s just the beginning.
You could be financially dissected.
Amongst other things.
Be careful what you wish for.
After all, it’s just a house.
Oh and I wanted to respond to one of Garth’s points tonight too, travel agents.
The internet (technology in general) seems to be making welfare recipients of us all. I know even in my work what I do is program computers to replace people, which pays well but each person I replace means well I am done that job too and have to find another person to replace with a computer. Pretty sad but it’s the only work I know. And I am not the only one doing it.
And the consumers are responsible too. Every time you book a flight through Travelocity or buy something on eBay or Amazon, you’ve laid off a Walmart employee. And Walmart was already in the business of laying off everyone at Sears.
What was supposed to happen is that technology was supposed to leverage us all to more meaningful work and self fulfillment, with increased wealth for everyone. But something went wrong with the program. There was suppose to be a vision where the freed up manpower would go on to higher value endeavors. Instead of factories full of sweat laborers we were suppose to get factories full of robots and technicians but more and more factories so that everybody had material wealth and scientific advancements on an unprecedented scale. Instead we got unemployment and welfare. I don’t know what went wrong but I think it has something to do with energy prices. The robots need power, and now they are in competition with whatever it might be humans could do and they are winning. So the leverage isn’t there.
So I’m going to raise my son to either be on the forefront of the technical revolution or become a garbage collector. Or maybe run a septic truck. Those are 2 lines of work I don’t see being automated soon, and I don’t want him taking the other option which is getting shot up in a war.
#13 Ahmed: “I am not sure how many times you have been proven wrong but still persistent to your beliefs that RE is messing up common people and their finances.”
********************
What’s THIS all about?
All this data is openly accessible in the US. For example in Florida, you just go to the county’s web site, click on the map, choose any property and there it is.
Maybe in Canada our top class public servants, as Prentice likes to call them, haven’t figured out the Internet yet.
The land transfer tax is to low.It should be at least 10%.The goverment needs to raise taxes because Canadians will pay it.Canadians have no fight left in them.They’re like wipped dogs or milk cows.Be a proud Canadian and pay more taxes.
Woo..I was hoping I was not the only one that thought the Trivago guy was sexy! lol
“I made much more money by buying and renting out Real Estate than selling it! ”
What? Are you trying to tell us that you are not “subsidizing” you tenants?
#26 Freedom First
Seriously dude.. same shit every time… I hope you at least have a goldfish. Your manlove for Garth is rather off-putting.
https://vimeo.com/87876758
When Smoking man speaks of the governments real handlers he means these guys…
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/28932-what-the-corporate-media-isn-t-telling-you-about-the-tpp#
“Wait until John Tory gets finished. I can see more taxes on real estate, property taxes, water bill and garbage fee increases of 10% yearly, higher land transfer taxes, maybe a 1% sales tax on sale and purchase of a property.”
And you think tenants will not be affected?
The government should be arresting the TREB. These criminal clowns seem to hate freedom and democracy. Consumers have the right to all information. Realtors and TREB are totally useless and not needed. If the government doesn’t open up the RE industry then they hate freedom and democracy and George Bush said they those who hate freedom and democracy are terrorist. I support freedom and democracy and I support an open and free MLS. Realtors are useless and I think everyone understands this.
Their defense will be, “we collected the data, we decide who gets access to it”.
Hard to argue with that, the government needs to change some other things to track this stuff better. Then, the gov’t will realize they have to pay someone to do that from their own budget and decide to let the private sector do it instead. Oh wait, we are back to where we started.
As much as I would like it to happen, I am skeptical.
Funny, how the very people the make double and triple their money in real estate are the very people that want to bite the hand that brings the cheque
#16 BS
IMHO, one reason may be due to the exorbitant taxi license/plate fees…into multiples of hundreds of thousands of dollars in some cities (in my relatively small but major city a cabbie driver told me that his license cost him about $250,000).
Meanwhile ,the show continues.
Just drove on knight street in east van ( yikes ) and every single SFH with a for sale sign has a sold sticker on it. No exception.
We can all count on 1 thing.
Realtors will fight to the Death to make real stats unavailable for us to see.
THE END
Recall a number of years ago, everyone rushed into becoming a financial adviser, just before the dot com crash. There were line ups to take the Canadian Securities Course, with many of the prospective students unable to even balance their chequebook. But that didn’t matter, it was supposedly easy money. Just sell someone some overpriced, under performing, mutual fund or better yet, labour sponsored fund. Many left the financial services industry years ago.
The rush to be a realtor these last few years is no different. At one point you just had to list a home then put out your hand for the commission. For many it was easy money, and certainly a lot easier than what they were doing.
But here we are now with tepid sales and many realtors now either leaving the profession, if you can call it that, or supplementing their income with other work.I know of many who are working on the side.
Here in Victoria with 1100 realtors and on average 450 sales, many certainly oaren’t getting paid. Yes, it is only the top 20% making any sales.
Just ask any experienced realtor, one who has been working since the last downturn, how it is going out there. The ones I talk to say it is awful. There is a message there.
My coworker just had a bad breakup and while rebounding has somehow landed with a sexy girl selling condos. When I met her I just couldn’t believe how vapid she was. Good luck with that one!!
By the way, would love to have a normal water cooler conversation for once that DOES NOT INVOLVE THE TOPIC OF GRANITE COUNTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Help me…
“Uber-like change to dinosaur industries?”
Major changes seem to be coming to many industries near you (fast food, big box stores, manufacturing, big breweries, financial services, etc.). What you’ve got to figure out is what’s going to retain it’s value.
“Someone paid $680K for a townhouse in the suburbs… Oh my lord….and they paid $925K for a semi. Wow. I hope it has parking and more than one bathroom. There really is no words for the stupidity that is out there.”
Where have you been living these past few years? Certainly nowhere near civilization.
@#64 triplenet
“Amongst other things.
Be careful what you wish for.
After all, it’s just a house.”
…that costs approximate $1,000,000 or more dollars, for which you have sacrificed years of earnings, indebted yourself through the remainder of your life, and have a high percentage chance of losing your life savings….
47.9 billion reasons nothing is going to change.
#49 Norbert Woodcock
“Plus, what about property taxes, desirability of location etc.”
______________________________________________
Desirability of location = Florida vs. Toronto
What more needs to be said?
Funny how some people raise a stink about paying a one-time commission charge to a salesperson working on selling their biggest asset for the highest price, but think nothing of parking their money with managers who extract 2-3% per year.
Investment advisors make money for their clients in exchange for tax-deductible fees that should not exceed 1%, while providing help with retirement planning, tax avoidance and what to do with young and foolish kidults in the basement. Not exactly the same thing as selling a house. — Garth
Daisy Mae Re: #77
Don’t blow a gasket. It is almost Spring.
Driving north to Toronto I stopped in Valdosta Georgia overnite waking up to see a TOYOTA plant in the back of my hotel. I checked the housing situation for comparison to the Toronto area and my goodness…in Valdosta for $500 monthly you can RENT A two bedroom or for $150k you can buy a very good home or for under $100k you can get a deal on a foreclosure.
This shows how a typical worker in Georgia making a modest salary under $50k can come out much better off than his Canadian counterpart. The Georgia worker can buy or rent a modest home and buy a Toyota Corolla but the Canadian worker will be very hard pressed to do the same with the HOUSING COSTS in Canada. A typical two bedroom rental in the GTA would be at least $1,300 monthly.
@StarStuff #82 re: “#26 Freedom First
Seriously dude.. same shit every time… I hope you at least have a goldfish. Your manlove for Garth is rather off-putting.”
Happy to see that it is not just the chicks that find this guy annoying. Can we ban “Freedom First”? Please Garth.
StarStuff, you are a dude, right?
Nice try Cici.
Taxi plates are free. It’s the limits that makes them cost $800,000 in places like vancouver.
Either lift the limits ((anyone can apply if qualified) or bring in companies like UBER.
The RE and Taxi monopolies must be broken if Canada is to be taken seriously.
I often hear property sales representatives defend their commissions with “you take your tax to a professional accountant” or “would you ask your hair dresser to handle your legal affairs? You pay top dollar for your professional and that’s why I am.” OK, that’s fair but I have to say a six week course and an exam do not a professional make. I think if realtors want to get paid the big bucks they need to have a degree – in real estate. Not some other degree. There are too many new “sales representatives” out there – smart but NOT when it comes to real estate. In a world where professionalism is required it seems this industry is still the Wild West.
#101 TRTh
They aren’t free, and why do you suppose that there are limits? Just who exactly do you think’s benefiting from them?
#95 Macrath on 03.08.15 at 8:37 pm
47.9 billion reasons nothing is going to change.
*****************************************
Amen brother.
There is no democracy in canaduh, if there ever was one.
#100 BlackDog on 03.08.15 at 8:53 pm
——————————–
Yes double-checked – a dude!.. lol
85 Realtors are useless scum on 03.08.15 at 8:12 pm
The government should be arresting the TREB. These criminal clowns seem to hate freedom and democracy. Consumers have the right to all information. Realtors and TREB are totally useless and not needed. If the government doesn’t open up the RE industry then they hate freedom and democracy and George Bush said they those who hate freedom and democracy are terrorist. I support freedom and democracy and I support an open and free MLS. Realtors are useless and I think everyone understands this.
———————————————————-
You are so right,Very well put they are useless.
So why the F do you what any of their sale numbers or stat’s?
I celebrated Woman’s day by going for a nice massage. Yes the open sign was neon.
Rock on ladies….
Everybody be safe on tomorrow’s drive, stats for accidents are brutal for daylight savings time cut over.
I think realtors commission should be much higher, as well as the land transfer tax much higher indeed. There should be other fees hidden as well as disclosed also.
Never used a realtor wether buying or selling and never will. Those who do deserve a spanking. They are in the same league as insurance and used car and collection jerk offs.
The hottest realtor I knew, was also a Hamilton firefighter…had his pic in a hot Hamilton firefighter calendar…just saying… there are perks in the business.
@ILoveCharts, are you paying attention?
As I sit on the back deck of my rented million dollar house looking at the north shore mountains for which I pay two grand a month in rent, I wonder if I will ever buy another piece of property. We have the same rubbish transfer tax in BC which adds thousands to the purchase price. Something is wrong when I can buy $500,000 worth of stock for $9.99 commission but have to fork over almost $50,000 to buy and sell a piece of property costing the same amount.
You don’t need a lawyer to review a BRA for you. You just need to take the time to read it closely before signing it or not signing it.
The more information is made public concerning property histories, the better informed is the potential buyer.
That information can also help you know if your property taxes reflect the similarly built home down the street.
Any organization that wishes to restrict your access to information about a transaction generally does NOT have your best interests in mind.
Would a car seller deny you access to view the title before purchase? Regardless if it’s a ‘dealer’ or a ‘private seller.’ I want to know owned the car, contact them etc. If it’s a private seller and his name is NOT on the title – I am not interested in buying -period!!
As for FSBO’s I am not generally interested, they have delusions of grandeur, sometime fail to disclose obvious defects, and I feel less ‘secure.’ So, though looked at FSBO homes never bought one. Certainly have bought private sale cars with good result. Remember “Caveat Emptor” in all transactions, or “Let the Buyer Beware.”
@Star Stuff re:105
:)
#107 Smoking Man on 03.08.15 at 9:14 pm
I celebrated Woman’s day by going for a nice massage. Yes the open sign was neon.
Rock on ladies….
——————————————
Well I hope Mrs Smoking Man celebrated the day as well… though it seems government tentacles have starting taxing these services as well …..man-0-man.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/06/prostitution-revenue-taxable-quebec-court-rules-as-it-hits-up-operator-of-male-escort-agency-with-1-2m-bill/
#99 bigtown
“A typical two bedroom rental in the GTA would be at least $1,300 monthly.”
Ha….in Van, 1300 bucks will get you a 500 sq ft studio with no insuite laundry.
—————–
If TREB’s defense is them being in control of data that they have paid to collate , then maybe they’ll win. But the latest article reported that TREB’s defense is about protecting privacy, which is hogwash as it is public information.
“I think if realtors want to get paid the big bucks they need to have a degree – in real estate. Not some other degree. There are too many new “sales representatives” out there …. ”
As it has been noted here, only a few make successful careers out of selling RE. The cream floats to the top. Even when the inevitable change comes to the industry, the good quality salespeople will re-invent their services to provide value. Much like investment advisors.
Garth, please delete #107 Smoking Man post. It is offensive and demeaning.
On International Women’s Day to find such misogynistic crap is beyond the pale.
You can do better, Garth.
#107 Smoking Man on 03.08.15 at 9:14 pm
…Yes, the open sign was neon.
Did he know you were coming today?
“Driving north to Toronto I stopped in Valdosta Georgia …”
Seriously dude, why compare apples to oranges?
Is that a pic of Smoking Man in the pool at last years B.B.Q. hosted by the Amazons?
Pipelines are your friends.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/08/cn-crude-oil-train-derailment-in-gogama-ont-very-concerning-transportation-minister-says/
@#76 ” Instead of factories full of sweat laborers we were suppose to get factories full of robots and technicians but more and more factories so that everybody had material wealth and scientific advancements on an unprecedented scale. ”
I think it’s a case where society as an aggregate may get there but for individual cases it’s messy. Someone who has worked in a car factory for 20 years isn’t necessarily in a position to start programming artificial intelligence, and a well-meaning government program isn’t likely to bridge the gap. So you are going to have some people who become chronically unemployable before the time they should retire, and government ends up having to step in to do something or else you get problems with the social order. And this may happen even to us in technical fields, as much of that also can eventually be automated, and for the rest there is always a crop of pimply faced youth willing to do a barely adequate job for half the price, and HR people dumb enough not to know the difference.
lookS not looks
A few miles down the road there’s the “McGillicuddly” farm. It goes back to the 1830’s. It’s been in the McGillicuddly family ever since. The original stove’s still in the kitchen, workin’ jes fine. (A whole lot of other original stuff too.) The current Mrs. McGillicuddly can take you through the house and tell you in which room which McGillicuddly died when. Turns out there’s not a single room in which a McGillycuddly hasn’t died.
No feeder lots or similar horrors on the place. McGillicuddly downright pampers his animals.
Real estate agent – whazzat.
Excelent post as usual Garth.
You’ve made my day with the line below.
“It’s hard to imagine realtors won’t inevitably go the way of travel agents, thousands of whom have been replaced by a single, sexy Trivago guy.”
#104 aL Pacino
Garth tried to promote the democracy thing, and got fired on the national news network. Was placed at top priority on the “Do not Call list”, had to disconnect his phone and start a pathetic blog.
#118 Country Girl on 03.08.15 at 9:56 pm
#107 Smoking Man on 03.08.15 at 9:14 pm
…Yes, the open sign was neon.
Did he know you were coming today?
…..
Ha, don’t think it was a he, if it was my complements to the plastic surgeon.
Sorry but I respect massage attendants way more than idiot chics working at Starbucks, both are fake, smiles are a fraud, but the massage chic makes way more loot.
Let’s face it, it’s not that bad compared to a poor nurse changing, diarea saturated diapers in a nursing home..
Some woman are smart, others stupid, just like men are.
Cici,
Either you’ve drank the koolaid or are a troll.
New taxi plate licences are divided amongst the taxi companies and are free. Resale ones are commanding $800K in YVR.
I think you’re a plate owner spewing misinformation.
#99 bigtown on 03.08.15 at 8:48 pm
Driving north to Toronto I stopped in Valdosta Georgia overnite …
***************
Another Valdosta story: Several years ago, on our first trip to Florida with our two young children, we stopped at a nice-looking family restaurant in the early evening. We intended to eat dinner then continue driving for another hour or so. The kids were hungry and cranky from so many miles in the car so I took them directly to a booth while my husband scouted out what was offered to eat at the buffet.
He was only gone a minute or so when he came back with that “look” (which says don’t argue just do what I say) and through tight lips told me to get the kids up and out to the car as soon as possible while he paid for the coffee and milk we’d ordered on the way to our table.
Hubby was still on the Toronto police force at that time. Back in the car he told me that hanging prominently over the buffet was a large sign with the words, “If challenged by a Police Officer, FREEZE and RAISE YOUR HANDS!”. Now, if that’s not the definition of sucking and blowing at the same time, I don’t know what is.
We’ve never stopped in Valdosta, Georgia – for anything – ever since.
#118 Country Girl on 03.08.15 at 9:56 pm
#107 Smoking Man on 03.08.15 at 9:14 pm
…Yes, the open sign was neon.
Did he know you were coming today?
______________________________
Nice one!
#120 valleyrenter
Lolz, kind of how I picture him as well.
Truly though, today’s post Title / Pic combo = EPIC Greater Fool. Definitely a contender for “Best Of”.
#122 Finland is FINNISH
Totally agree but I still think something is wrong with the deal. Investment in capital (which robots are part of) is supposed to lead to greater wealth overall, according to theory. Something isn’t working right. Maybe the 0.001% is keeping all the gains. Maybe globalization is causing wage competition that won’t go away until all humans earn a living wage. Maybe there isn’t enough energy. But something went wrong.
All the dude in the picture needs is an egg-beater and then he has an eco-friendly Jacuzzi…tough times are ahead!
Can we ban or delete people who ask for others to be banned or deleted? Cry babies.
Real estate, then, is a dark pool.
People rage against dark pools in the stock market for their lack of price discovery. There are movements afoot to light them up.
If the lawsuit goes through, time to light this baby up, too.
Relax, nothing is going to change in Ontario. Everyone thinks that their POS house has doubled in the last 6-7 years. Their is no political desire to change mess with that mind set in Ontario by either the province or the feds.
Information for the sheeple could spook the herd. Party on Canada!
#76 nonplused on 03.08.15 at 7:43 pm
You’re right. Maybe this country is in the wrong business. Casino money seems to be where it’s at. Every resident of Macau receives CAD $1500 a year just because. It’s not life-changing, but it’s nice. And from what I’ve seen, citizens seem well taken care of in Monaco.
Maybe we’re in a transitional phase where technology has advanced enough that some jobs can be automated, but not enough to generate wealth for everybody. Nobody’s built a goose to lay golden eggs just yet.
And be careful that drones don’t take over your garbage collection/septic truck business! If Amazon is experimenting with drones for delivery, that’s fewer UPS drivers on the road, right? I was watching “Oil Sands Karaoke” where this young heavy truck driver refers to herself as a “glorified pizza delivery driver”. They want to automate those jobs, too.
RE: #76 nonplused on 03.08.15 at 7:43 pm
Instead of factories full of sweat laborers we were suppose to get factories full of robots and technicians but more and more factories so that everybody had material wealth and scientific advancements on an unprecedented scale. Instead we got unemployment and welfare. I don’t know what went wrong but I think it has something to do with energy prices.
This is just how capitalism works. Businesses are NOT job creators, they are profit creators. Capitalism is the wrong model for the robot future because robots don’t earn wages and buy consumer items.
RE: #100 BlackDog on 03.08.15 at 8:53 pm
Happy to see that it is not just the chicks that find this guy annoying. Can we ban “Freedom First”? Please Garth.
Nah. I kinda feel sorry for the guy. He’ll die alone with all his money clutching a snow globe as he mutters the name “Rosebud” with his last dying breath. At least he can pretend that he has some friends here so his life wasn’t totally pointless before he passes. Sad.
I’d gladly trade my 5% commission, for 1% of house value year after year (whether the house went up or down). This arrangement sound familiar?
Consumers – ask the GOVT to put land registry records online, this is not agent’s role….
that’s why you pay the taxes…. or drive there, don’t be lazy….
The old school RE industry is disgusting. Milking 5% out of a sale, it’s stealing. And then they hold back public sales data..honestly !! TREB will eventually lose if not now. If your a realtor your days on this gravy train are numbered. The only group I despise as much are unions that hold companies hostage. Shut’re down an boot there sorry butts to the curb.
#118 Country Girl
+1 Booyha!
#117 Marlene from Victoria
+1 Agreed.
Re #107 Smoking Man
Actually threw up in my mouth – just a little.
Yechhh. TMI…. and Super Douche-y. Surprised GT let that one slide. Silkwood shower number 2 today here I come.
“Never, ever buy from a FSBO. — Garth”
Why not? If it’s a reasonable property for a reasonable price, what’s the risk?
STOP the House Price Hyper-Inflation – then TALK about the saving rate!!
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
That’s bigotry. Balk at the BANKS. and stay there until PROBLEM is solved ;)
Great Post Garth! I’m suspecting the David & Goliath fight is about to begin with the TREB and their realtors!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/real-estate-brokers-defy-treb-vow-to-publish-home-sales-stats-1.2984866
#62 aL pacino
If you offer too low of a commish there won’t be any other agents contacting your agent to show the property.
————————-
That’s a fallacy RE Agents will try to use on you to get a higher commission.
The reality………
……now with online MLS, every buyer is looking every morning at all the new listing in their area.
If one of interest pops-up they are going to ask to have a showing and the agent representing them will have to take them through no matter what the listing commission.
If an agent does not “want” to show it because he will get a lower commission he’s going to have to talk a pretty good store to put his clients off.
The other reality is that with 1 billion hungry RE agents in TO and YVR now nobody is going to pass on an easy sale even if it is a 2% commission.
Realtor rules currently say a potential buyer can be told the sales history of a property (previous selling prices, price changes, days-on-market etc.) only when he or she is the actual client of an agent. A broker can’t just publish recent or past selling prices on his web site, the way Americans do.
———————-
And I think this was a recent change from more open access?
Its seems strange that the TREB is changes in a way to allow less transparency and competitiveness in light of the impending court challenge.
I would think they would be trying to show how open the system is and how not additional regulation is needed. But this flies in the face of that.
I am sure they have some very good lawyers advising them so I do not think this an ill informed restriction on the TREB’s part.
Perhaps they see the writing on the wall and are trying to wring every last dime out of people before the feds force changes to their monopoly.
“The RE and Taxi monopolies must be broken if Canada is to be taken seriously.”
The nonsense with the dairy and farm boards is just as bad. Young farmers can’t get started in the business because paying bankers huge $$$ to borrow to buy some old farmers’ quota simply makes the whole proposition prohibitively expensive. Meanwhile our industry suffers with significant un-competitiveness because of this.
Even worse is that these ‘boards’ often are given taxation powers, even on farmers who want nothing to do with them. With so-called ‘check-off’ schemes.
Neverending race to the bottom i guess….
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@85
“The government should be arresting the TREB. These criminal clowns seem to hate freedom and democracy”
&&&&
If you hate freedom why would you hate democracy?
If you hate democracy, why would you hate freedom?
What can we do to help influence the break-up of this cartel?
I know this is a TREB hearing but it will likely eventually impact the state of information access in other provinces.
Has anyone started a website to get the public word out that this Orwellian like information control has to end? Okay other than this one?
Petition anyone? TREB will lobby and hard, the public has to pushed back or the insane control will continue.
A Canadian Zillow won’t tip the balance of the irrational exuberance on it’s own but getting the information flowing is a key step.
#120 valleyrenter on 03.08.15 at 10:00 pm
Is that a pic of Smoking Man in the pool at last years B.B.Q. hosted by the Amazons?
====================================
The proper term for that is “plunge pool”, and you pay big condo fees to have it!
@91
By the way, would love to have a normal water cooler conversation for once that DOES NOT INVOLVE THE TOPIC OF GRANITE COUNTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Help me…
&&&&&&&&&&
Well, this year is the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta.
Try talking about that instead.
I, as a seller, had an accepted offer on one of my properties a few years back, subject to subject removals. I had taken, the buyer offered, a $5,000 deposit while they removed subjects.
They were all standard subjects; financing, home inspection etc…. nothing which could really fail, but should they get cold feet, could have picked one to collapse the sale.
The buyer got cold feet and walked, so I moved on, and sold the house 2 weeks later, and the official version was “cold feet”.
As I was signing the papers for the sale, they slipped me another one for the release of the prior $5,000 deposit. Said I needed to sign the release before the new sale could go through.
Being the kind of guy Garth can appreciate, I refused to sign and the realtor withdrew the letter after I went up one side and down the other about the CONTRACT TERMS and where is the “cold feet” subject.
Bottom line – REALTORS – Have no idea about law, tort and building construction. Just paint, carpet and street appeal.
If you rely on a Realtor to soundly guide you through the arguably largest purchase of your life, then you’re an idiot.
@119
“Driving north to Toronto I stopped in Valdosta Georgia …”
Seriously dude, why compare apples to oranges?
&&&&&&
For an average paid industrial worker, what is wrong with the comparison?
Oh yeah, and I never signed the important release document, and never kept the $5,000 deposit.
Bunch of turds.
QE1/2/3 was all about the Fed buying bonds from themselves by a thing they call QE (counterfeiting) because bonds were harder to sell to buyers of size such as China. Thus, major banks in the US are borrowing at near 0% interest from the fed discount window. These same banks are buying bonds and are being rewarded by the treasury and Fed at higher rates.
Of course with any kind of QE or stimulus equity markets like the DJIA, S&P 500, and TSX can hit all-time highs and that credit has found it’s way into equities which was otherwise dormant due to the lack of velocity. Another increase lately in equities minues the O&G sector was due to the decrease in the oil price with energy costs being substantially cheaper allowing for greater margins. The caveat of this action though is that US publicly listed corporations’ earnings have been poor in comparison to their price (P/E ratio).
With crazy valuations, numerous IPOs, and poor earnings, why would someone buy US equities NOW?
Mr. Market is a manic-depressive that you cannot predict, understand, or time. He screams and exudes CONfidence and yells for you to buy when prices are high and hates himself when things go low. In the midst of Mr. Market’s anxious pill-popping symposium of convolluded upward activity are analysts, economists, and shylocks featured on BNN, CNBC, and hit websites. After enough upward momentum and volume, they start to befriend and believe the pill-popping, manic-depressive Mr. Market. They chase the momentum, lever themselves, and encourage their audience to do so… until one day the smart money sees through the facade and pulls the money off the table.
A few days later Mr. Market puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger and losses become realized. Crazy valuations, BS BLIS job/industrials/consumer confidence/employment numbers, and uttered whims by Fed chairpersons designed to swing markets to the upside for just one more day become a faux sign of the times. This is just the small markets. The big market is the bond market and it makes the stock market look like a midget with a hand-mirror.
How can rates realistically rise when the only buyer of bonds will eventually be the Fed or the Fed and the banks it subsidizes? Furthermore, how will the equity markets reward such a rate hike of say 2% or even the real estate markets?
From what I see rates stay low and the QE and stimulus eventually grow and Mr. Market is given a band-aid and some uppers and infiltrates your newspapers, TV sets, and CPU.
Breaking News:
“Elton McDonald, builder of the man-cave, is planning an appearance on Dragon’s Den pitching the idea of his underground dwelling as an alternative to Toronto’s sky-high real estate prices:
For $99,000, I can build you a comfortable, private underground two-bedroom condo with ventilation, soundproofing and complete privacy.”
Marlene wrote: Garth, please delete #107 Smoking Man post. It is offensive and demeaning.
On International Women’s Day to find such misogynistic crap is beyond the pale.
You can do better, Garth.
—> but the TV show ‘Ellen’ can have buff guys in briefs and ladies in the audience going all crazy over them. Putting stickies on their chests. This seems to be acceptable to all the women.
But if there was a guy show that had 3 babes in bikinis then people like Marlene would be creating a ruckus.
Leave smoking mans comments alone.
“As I wrote, they are greedy not to want to pay commission, but pricing their properties as if they were. Never, ever buy from a FSBO. — Garth”
Bizarre statement Garth. Why would a seller not want to sell his/her house at the same price it might sell at if there was a realtor involved? Is the FSBO supposed to work cheaper than the agent?
What does ‘greedy’ have to do with one individual selling a house to another? Is it not ‘greedy’ for the realtor to be asking 5%….or the city asking the transfer tax when the money is just lost in general revenue any way? I find your logic quite contradictory.
With the limited legal knowledge of 99% of realtors in the first place, making it necessary to hire your own lawyer to protect you from ‘errors and ommissions’….shouldn’t using a realtor be the last option a seller should choose?
They may think they are out of 100k but if you bought a house in Toronto, they make it all back and more in a nick of time. I wouldn’t be worried about it.
Increased transparency is exactly what the real estate market needs here. If an agent’s only value is to reveal deliberately concealed information, then he has almost no value at all, really. The agents who stopped sending me sales data two weeks ago found their backbones and renewed their emails again last week. Change is coming, realtors.
Speaking of change, the tech market is about to hit a milestone too. AAPL is about to jump the shark with their new watch today. Too clunky, too easy to lose and too much a target for thieves, not to mention for the incredible surveillance-state we are moving into.
Tim Cook has nothing else up his sleeve (and the stupid watch won’t even fit under his sleeve, LOL) so there will be a long exhalation for Apple fans and shareholders after this announcement. I sold the last of my AAPL last week at a tidy profit. I might buy back in a couple years when it’s under $30 again.
For now, my profits are liquid, ready to vultch some RE in the 416 by about 2017 or so.
Usually agree with your point of view Garth and think you give great advice but can’t understand your disdain for FSBO.
We sold our townhome for fair market value and did it ourselves, with the aide of a lawyer of course. Your assertion that FSBOs are greedy is misguided.
A home does not become less valuable because you are not paying an agent. Saying that is like saying a home is less valuable if you cut the grass yourself instead of paying someone else to do it.
If our buyer would not have used an agent on their end they would have saved money as we would have discounted the commission we had to pay their agent.
Keeping more money in our pocket was a bonus but having complete control over the process was the best part of selling ourselves.
Stop the FSBO hate.
Most FSBOs do so only to save money normally paid in commission, then price their homes as if they were paying it. Never buy from a FSBO. — Garth
Re #159 T.O. man cave
Some, on seeing the pictures, thought that it was better constructed than most new homes theses days. It looked to me that it exceeded the Ontario Building Code from what I could see.
If the chatter about the bull market ending is true, how can we expect the diversified, balanced portfolio to return. 7%, 6% 5% – less?
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bull-market-for-stocks-is-6-years-old-is-the-run-up-over-1.2270287
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102487805
(a) It’s not over. (b) A balanced, diversified portfolio is designed not to rely on any one market or asset class. — Garth
Astounding that a couple buying another house had no idea of the level of land transfer taxes. How many people actually acquire debt so blindly? Best reset the idiot meter.
There may be a role for realtards, but is it anywhere near as important as the msm they pay for make it out to be?
The bloated egos that often accompany the nauseating, know-it-all attitudes are beyond comical. They’re pathetic. Plastic teeth and idiotic smiles abound. Challenge them, just a little with stats, logic and trends and those plastic smiles slam shut like a clam shell.
I’d be gobsmacked, were they to lose their case in court. The sick, screw the “consumer” mentality which is rife and highly tolerated in this country, will likely never change. It’s become an “all for business” and “leave the “consumer” to his own device” kinda world here. The term consumer ought to be made illegal, because it depersonalizes people and enables crappy business attitudes and practice. But that is a subject for another day.
Don’t hold your breath.
At very minimum, get reliable word of mouth references and use your Plastic Teeth-o-Meter.
Less than 5% chance of a major housing correction in Canada http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1498561/market-manuscript-by-fortress-real-developments-reports-less-than-a-five-per-cent-chance-of-a-major-housing-correction-in-canada
Who’s forecasting a ‘major’ burst? — Garth
#93 Young & Foolish
You must be the buyer of the above mentioned semi or worse yet the suburban townhouse.
February housing starts nationally down 13% annually (seasonally adjusted) and down 16% from adjusted January number.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/housing-starts-fall-sharply-in-february/article23354403/
I have never understood why the land registry office doesn’t release the sold information. It’s more complete than anything the real estate industry has; it includes all the private sales, the in family transfers, everything.
In Ontario, the government has a sole source contract with Teranet to manage the data. Teranet in turn sells it back to lawyers, RE agents and more. They pay the government a nice chunk of change for the rights to that information.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/streetwise/teranet-deal-with-ontario-likely-first-of-many/article1461786/
FSBO is the only way to go if you are selling. I’ve done it 3 times already, piece of cake! I can’t be convinced that hiring a realtor to sell my place is money well spent!
The realtor takes a few pictures, lists it on MLS, slaps a lock box on the door and walks away, without having to do much else other than paperwork in the event it sell.
Get an independent appraisal, list it yourself, show it yourself, hire a lawyer to do the paperwork, save bundles of cash, end of story…
#96 Cici on 03.08.15 at 8:37 pm
#49 Norbert Woodcock
“Plus, what about property taxes, desirability of location etc.”
______________________________________________
Desirability of location = Florida vs. Toronto
What more needs to be said?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You don’t get it. It’s much worse than that!
It’s Florida vs. Oshawa
“Never buy from a FSBO – Garth”
Like all generalizations, this one is also always wrong, Garth.
– See what I did there, huh, huh ;)
There may indeed be proclivity for many FSBO sellers to try to rationalize the unpaid commission back into their own pockets.
But not always. There are actually many reasonable Canadians out there who want to deal fairly and as objectively as possible, even in Toronto. I’m one of them.
I sold a property a few years ago to a nice family. Priced slightly under what other comparables were asking, it was also priced at what I would have priced it at even with a realtor – i.e. reasonably. Sold it within a week and we both feel good about it years later. A good lawyer on each side made sure the papers were all in order. No problems at all.
Shortly after, home owners on our new street told us they were interested in selling their rental place. They wanted $500K, which was very attractive. We weren’t quite willing to take a leap in buying a rental property, however, (all the extra work involved) so we politely passed. They tried FSBO for a few weeks. A month later they hired a realtor, and it sold quickly for $599K.
Lessons?
Be master of your domain, in charge of your own emotions. Know your data. Assess the other parties quickly. Know your BATNA. If they seem stubborn or unrealistic, walk away but leave a card – if you really want the place they might just call back. Have expert assistants ready to go, a trusted lawyer especially.
You don’t need a realtor any more than you need a car salesman to show you how to kick a tire.
“As I wrote, they are greedy not to want to pay commission, but pricing their properties as if they were. Never, ever buy from a FSBO. — Garth”
What if the FSBO is a Realtor? Is it ok then?
Here is a good illustration of annual returns for different asset classes for the past 11 years. It quite excellently illustrates why you want to own different asset classes.
http://www.ndir.com/cgi-bin/PeriodicTableofAnnualReturns.cgi
Globe & Mail: “Premier Christy Clark says the property transfer tax is a “drag” on B.C.’s economy she would like to eliminate, even though it’s worth about a billion dollars a year to the provincial government.
But Ms. Clark said Wednesday the challenge is going to be figuring out how to engineer the demise of the tax without endangering British Columbia’s balanced budget.”
*********************
Land transfer taxes worth $1 billion to BC, alone. What fools we are playing right into governmental hands….as usual.
To all of the posters complaining about Freedom First-
You’ve unwittingly proven his point.
Catalyst: Their defense will be, “we collected the data, we decide who gets access to it”.
Hard to argue with that, the government needs to change some other things to track this stuff better. Then, the gov’t will realize they have to pay someone to do that from their own budget
I’m sure the court will understand their argument but also the argument of the Competition Bureau which is that the existing arrangement restricts competition.
Right now brokers like Zoocasa and “Toronto Homes Sold” do have access to the data. They pay for it. The court could rule that once a broker has access to the data then he can re-sell it. That is the Real Estate Board cannot prohibit the redistribution of its data. Violation of the ruling could result in the records of the Real Estate Board being seized.
Garth
Most FSBOs do so only to save money normally paid in commission, then price their homes as if they were paying it. Never buy from a FSBO. — Garth
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Mr. Turner gives some excellent advice on his blog.
The advice to not buy from a FSBO (or be an FSBO) does not apply, though.
While Mr. T. describes all FSBO deals as ‘greedy sellers’ who are too cheap to pay commission, in reality most are people who refuse to play in the corrupt game of real estate sales.
I suspect that 90% of FSBO owners would pay a ‘fair amount’ for ‘fair services’ and effort from realtors who actually had their customers best interest in mind.
And how is it that saving money by paying .05% on the MER for an EFT, as opposed to paying 2.5% for the MER on a managed fund, makes perfect sense?
Same group of funds.
People who manage their own portfolios are ‘greedy’ because they try to manage their own money and save commission.
Yet the ‘value’ provided by the active management of mutual funds, does not justify the cost.
Hmmm.
Kind of sounds like the value that that Realtor provides does not justify the expense.
I would suggest that you run as fast as you can from an FSBO that does not have a clue what he/she is doing.
Just like you should run as fast as you can from most realtors who are clueless, and expect a great commission nonetheless.
I take it that realturd didn’t make the 20th percentile.
However, if he lives in the GTA and decides to sell, he does have a nice “hot tub” as a selling feature. Throw in the patio set and people may overlook the hot tub is only sized comfortably for two + a pet.
Not hard to fetch a cool $million for his humble abode. Top up his drink, the party rages on.
#118 Country Girl
+1 Booyha!
#117 Marlene from Victoria
+1 Agreed.
Re #107 Smoking Man
Actually threw up in my mouth – just a little.
———————
Ladies, how is it misoginistic to be a patron of a legal
business in this country? Just because you decided to be offended? I didn’t hear any objection to the “hot fireman” comment above – y’all seem pretty selective in your mysandry.
How ridiculous is the law to allow women to sell sex with impunity, but the man who avails himself of her services is a criminal.
Ladies, the “Girl Power” pendulum has swung way too far – prepare for a reversion to the mean.
… for a second there I thought it was poloz in the pool. but conservative people would never drink and swim, so quickly brushed that aside. nice stunt double though
Garth, can you explain why we shouldn’t buy from FSBO?
If the price is lower, is it OK then? Are you saying that FSBOs are asking for too much or is there some other reason (detrimental to the buyer) that you’re not saying?
149 Mark on 03.09.15 at 1:10 am
“The nonsense with the dairy and farm boards is just as bad.”
Supply management is terrible for so many reasons. It has real consequences for consumers- the impact on the budgets of poorer households is significant, and if you accept the premise that dairy is healthy, supply management makes it more difficult for poor families to feed their children healthy diets. Agriculture is suffering from lack of innovation here because average farmers are just too old- as you say, a young farmer has no chance of selling poultry or dairy as his start-up costs include buying arbitrarily limited –and therefore insanely expensive- quota.
Greenland rocks!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11458161/From-bust-to-boom-How-the-world-became-addicted-to-debt.html
150 1.99% form CIBC on 03.09.15 at 1:13 am
“Special intro rate (first 9 months): 1.99%
Also available on other terms”
Just last week, a colleague was enumerating the reasons he had heard in the newspaper that Canada would not have a “US-style real estate crash.” He used a lot of jargon. One of the reasons he listed was “teaser rates.” We don’t have them in Canada, apparently, any more than we have sub-prime mortgages.
Interesting read, both the article and the comments.
We bought a semi in Toronto in 2003, good timing as looking at the current prices we wouldn’t be able to afford our own house right now.
We bought with the intent of staying, not upsizing at any time.
I have to admit though, with houses selling for more than twice what we paid – when there are houses even for sale – we sometimes do some calculations and wonder whether we should just sell and buy a smaller condo in the same area. Then I come to my senses and calculate the LTT, commissions, moving costs, a condo that would still cost more than the original price of our semi etc…and we decide to stay put.
I am curious about some of the comments though: Never buy from a FSBO (should you sell on your own?), hiring a lawyer instead of a RE agent is bad, signing a BRA is bad.
How would you go about selling and buying?
#174
Have expert assistants ready to go, a trusted lawyer especially.
————-
Are their any other kind of lawyers?
Most FSBOs do so only to save money normally paid in commission, then price their homes as if they were paying it.
—————————
isn’t that the idea of fsbo?
why would they sell under market value, regardless of commissions?
It’s got a religious zeal to it.. stick a fork in keystone.. Obama is a lame duck… so he will act in the only ways he can …..he needs a legacy ….other than the Nobel peace prize drone king
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/09/climate-fight-wont-wait-for-paris-vive-la-resistance
Gotta say this is one of the funniest pictures.
Typical Canadian Homeowner:
House rich but pool poor.
#188
I am curious about some of the comments though: Never buy from a FSBO (should you sell on your own?), hiring a lawyer instead of a RE agent is bad, signing a BRA is bad.
How would you go about selling and buying?
———
I think what Garth is saying is: Don’t buy Real Estate
Hardly. Just do it in the fashion that protects you best. — Garth
“The feds’ Competition Bureau is pushing ahead with a case that could forever alter the real estate landscape, forcing TREB to make market data available..”
————————————————
After creating conditions for record number of Canadians to take on record housing debt, now we’re supposed to believe that the Govt will make it difficult to sell those same houses at mysteriously high prices? I highly highly doubt it.
Like all other policy the last 5 years, watch this one also help goose the market.
I love how Realtors go above the budget all the time.
Buyer: My budget is $650,000
Realtor: This place is $725,000. If it’s the place of your dreams, be prepared to bid higher. Don’t let budgets get in the way.
DELETED (Vulgarity)
My co-worker told me this morning he’s looking to buy a house here in Edmonton. Found one, but the buyer barely budged on their price as it’s listed at “Appraised” value… Yeah, the city estimation back from last spring!
This slimey RE agent also wouldn’t show my co-worker the counter offer (I suspect a formal one was never made and it’s just these 2 RE agents texting back and forth), and his RE agent also told him he can doesn’t have to use this RE agent’s services and he can look elsewhere for a house if he wants… Except the RE agent didn’t tell him that if he finds a house, he’s going to be on the hook to pay the agent his commission! Slimey bugger. So I warned my co-worker to look at the fine print within his BRA and to just sit back till the 90 days is up and then find a new RE Agent… And to also low-ball the hell out of whatever house he likes because listings in Edmonton are just as swollen in Calgary right now!
Hi Garth,
I’m sure you realize that many of the visitors to your blog are here because they are looking to empower themselves by learning more about investing.
However it does not stop there. They are also looking to empower themselves even further by understanding the world around them and making wise decisions, financial and otherwise.
Naturally then I think the majority here would not be totally against dealing with a FSBO or perhaps being a FSBO themselves.
Now depending on one’s marketplace this may not make sense. But to rule it out completely is akin to sticking one’s head in the sand.
But what do I know? I’m just a broke Dick.
@ Freedom First
We are all slaves to money and the system from the day that we are born. Try walk out of your home with no money and no credit cards, see how far you can go. Where is your freedom now?
@Everyone else who responded to Freedom First
we all got trolled good. But I wanted to make a comment anyway.
oh, you know it’s spring when the timestamp on comments is correct again.
#100 BlackDog on 03.08.15 at 8:53 pm
@StarStuff #82 re: “#26 Freedom First
Seriously dude.. same shit every time… I hope you at least have a goldfish. Your manlove for Garth is rather off-putting.”
Happy to see that it is not just the chicks that find this guy annoying. Can we ban “Freedom First”? Please Garth.
StarStuff, you are a dude, right?
******************************
Ban him for doing what exactly? Slippery slope. He has an opinion…if you don’t like it don’t read it. Geezus people. You can always scroll past it – it is usually the slider on the right of the screen.
I have sold high end European automobiles for two decades here in Calgary. I’ve sat in the penthouse offices downtown and negotiated deals with the richest and most powerful people in the city, for some of the most exclusive and expensive pieces of wheeled art on the planet, year after year.
I am a “used car salesman” and proud of it…….do you know why ?
You cannot have a client base in any industry that sticks with you and gives you repeat business and referrals, if you act like the stereotypical real estate agent does. You need to really know your stuff, be 100% ethical in your dealings, don’t overcharge for your services, and when you shake hands on a deal, you honor your word. What a concept……..dooouuhhhh !!
I have met 100’s of used house salespeople in my years on the showroom floor, they come in wasting my time day dreaming while looking at things they cannot afford. The only thing slimier than a 95% of the realtors out there is a multi-level marketer. You need to check your fingers after you shake hands. Having said that, I have met a few I would hire and do business with, they are the ones I have sold cars to…..and I can count them all on the fingers of one hand…….after 20+ years that is a very sad commentary on their industry.
Exceptional realtors add value to the transaction AT THE RIGHT PRICE……problem is, the price is waaaaaay to much and exceptional realtors are few and far between. If I made any misrepresentations during a business transaction like those spelled out in the ads we’ve seen on Garth’s blog, or uttered verbally by many of the people in the examples given here, I’d lose my license to sell cars, be fined and blackballed. Realtors on the other hand……LOL…….we all know that story.
It certainly is different in St. John’s.
http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2015-03-09/article-4069770/Top-tier-properties-for-sale-in-St.-John%26rsquo%3Bs/1
#168 -… a forecast from a real estate development company? What would you expect them to say….??
Yield Hounds should avoid individual stocks with high dividends unless you can stomach it.
Some recent ones with large sometimes overnight (10%!+) drops:
PZA Pizza Pizza
STB Student Transportation
AQN Algonquin Power
WEQ Western Income fund
LTS Lightstream oil and gas
AIM Aimia (Aeroplan)
High yielders savaged.
Sites like Zillow and Trulia is what I used to purchase my home in the US. Without them I would have been at the mercy of RE agents. This information has to be available to the public in Canada. Those who oppose have something to hide. Why would you not have information like price history, proposed rental rates, school ratings, crime stats, etc.. at your disposal when you plan to fork out hard earned $$$ for the most expensive purchase in your lifetime?
My wife and I tried to buy a FSBO in 416 last fall. We put in what we thought was a fair condition-free offer. Apparently, the sellers did not think so, since they did not even bother to respond. Anyway, the FSBO languished for another month, after which the sellers predictably caved and hired a top-producing RE agent. Of course, the agent made them drop their asking price by $100k and the sellers eventually ended up netting $10,000 less after commissions than had they accepted our original offer in the first place. Needless to say, we aren’t the ones who bought it.
Hey Garth,
I notice that whenever a negative jobs event occurs (e.g. Target) you are quick to mention it. However, I am sure you won’t be saying much about Loblaws plan to open 50 new stores. I guess we all have our biases…
Target closed almost 150 outlets and laid off 17,000. Loblaws is opening 50 grocery stores. Are these comparable? — Garth
hiking up the Golden Pyramid.
What a view.. you can see Asia!
3.7M for a west side tear down in Vancouver..
In recent memory, before FB (when people were only slightly insane) this property went for $250K.
@VicPaul #182 re: ” Ladies, how is it misoginistic to be a patron of a legal
business in this country? Just because you decided to be offended? I didn’t hear any objection to the “hot fireman” comment above – y’all seem pretty selective in your mysandry.
How ridiculous is the law to allow women to sell sex with impunity, but the man who avails himself of her services is a criminal.
Ladies, the “Girl Power” pendulum has swung way too far – prepare for a reversion to the mean”
I agree that our prostitution laws are ridiculous and that a man who “avails himself” as SM apparently does should not be considered a criminal any more than the woman who sells sex for money. As a woman, most of my female friends, think this way too. I believe that the women who replied with disgust to SM’s comment were not so much against prostitution as against SM’s obvious lack of respect for his wife; its not the first time SM has made it clear that he gets a lot on the side while his wife remains clueless. Or so he thinks. Maybe she has some hot male friends.
BTW, what was wrong with the “hot firefighter” comment? Are you just jealous that we can get “hot” for free?
#163 aapl. Always have to consider the opposite.
Hbo is onboard. Could the rest now beg to be a part of this. Maybe this is the dip. $30 lol. No new products. Lol.
The r and d budget might be greater than the gdp of most countries. That’s likely not for giggles.
That said a profit is a profit and everyone has to eventually sell to realize it. Regardless of what it is. You dont need to justify it further. Or make ridiculous predictions.
There will always be one more thing.
Agree with Mike. Definetley greater quantity of homes for sale. Edm, Sherwood Pk. Noticed a few new homes torched.
Guys in Calgary giving me the gears for the Oil price drop. I just pressed the down button, unexpectantly. Sorry!
My point is just that you like to emphasize economic negatives and ignore positives when you make your arguments. I believe you often accuse others of a lack of balance when you certainly do not present a balanced view. Perhaps you don’t see it and this might explain your poor success in economic prediction over the past many years.
And yes, I do see Loblaws creating 5,000 new jobs to be comparable to losing 17,000 Target jobs. While still a net loss, this is one company adding 5,000 jobs which is certainly helpful to the economy. Other companies are constantly adding and subtracting positions. It is the way business works and always has worked.
UN official Mostafa Tolba, executive director of the UN Environment Program warned the “world faces an ecological disaster as final as nuclear war within a couple of decades unless governments act now.”
“…lack of action would bring an environmental catastrophe which will witness devastation as complete, as irreversible as any nuclear holocaust.”
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CARBON TAX NOW!
punish drivers and people with warm houses. jail time. no mercy.
of course this was predicted to happen 15 years ago by the science that is ‘settled’ by buffoon scientists like this
Gore told us in January 2006 that we had only 10 years left to solve the global warming problem
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sooo, with 9 months left till the end of the world, who needs ETF’s.
remember, kiddies, the science is settled!
UK’s Top Scientist Sir David King in 2004: ‘Antarctica is likely to be the world’s only habitable continent by the end of this century if global warming remains unchecked’
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more ‘settled’ science.
i’m sure glad these oh-so-smart men are looking out fro us!
#197 Mike.
I was stuck in a BRA few years ago. Waited out the 90 days, and that was the first/last time I ever signed a BRA. Life lesson learned.
One of my neighbours (when he bought the house on our street) was interviewing agents, and made it clear he wouldn’t sign a BRA. The first agent was offended and said, “We can’t have a mutually trustworthy relation this way” and left. Next day, the agent calls back, “I’ve thought about it, I’m willing to work without a written agreement.” What do you think my neighbour said, “Well, I’ve thought about it too, and I’m not willing to work with you, sorry.”
#208 Phil re Loblaws expanding
The success of Loblaws stores is coming at the expense of Safeway and other grocers.
Yields on 10 yr paper have gone up significantly on both sides of the border.
UST 2.24% from as low as 1.66% in Feb.
Maybe overdone to the low end but sure went back up quick.
#196 Smoking Man on 03.09.15 at 11:36 am
DELETED (Vulgarity)
________________________________________
Oh it has to be something really bad, but I have to ask,
was it a three letter swear word in crayon or a whapping four in finger paint?
More importantly Garth how the hell did you check the spelling?
Now, I’ve argued in the past that all buyers should have an agent assisting them (but don’t sign a BRA – ever). I’ve also said FSBOs are mostly greedy sellers who don’t want to pay commission, but still price their properties as if they were. All this is still true. Your chances of getting laundered are high. Plus, sellers without an agent usually settle for a lower sale price. The savings are nebulous, at best.
In short, there’s a role for realtors, other than making politicians, lawyers and CRA auditors feel loved. But without deep reform, most are doomed. Stop smiling.
____________________________________________
Just sold through my realtor out here in Oakville, no BRA. Told my agent when he presented one that was a no-go. His response wasn’t to bat an eye, but rather an “OK” and on we went.
Moist Millennial here;
I bought a condo in the 905 four years ago, and thought I was doing something great for my life.
…Just sold it last month
Working with a real estate agent turned me off of ever buying another property again in the GTA!
Not only did I find a buyer, but I pretty much did everything inside the condo to ‘show’ it.
The agent did as little as possible.
When it came time to negotiate for a lower commission as I found the buyer – and had the buyer use my agent (to lower my commission), I thought I had a good upper hand on the situation.
My agreed upon 3.5% commission became 3%
I was furious, and I couldn’t do anything as I was locked in legally.
After the property closed, the agent harassed me due to an oven which was not properly cleaned to the princess buying the unit’s needs
Phone call after phone call, threatening me to be held on the line for the cost of a new over – he said he would hold the cheque he owed me, etc, etc
Long story short, I got my own ass over there to clean the oven to make the buyer happy to limit the stress in my life
Not only did this guy not do anything, but when I found the buyer he was on vacation.
After taking a nice $15k for himself, I wondered what the point was
About 2-3 weeks ago I found this blog, and am happy to see people are discussing the monopoly these people have on the industry.
I work in a professional business and could NEVER think of treating clients in that manner.
Best part, 2 weeks ago he asked me to write a review for him and his website.
I laughed, and ignored all his future calls as our business was closed
I couldn’t stand his attitude, entitlement or any of that
I’m happy I’m out of the housing market, after spending 50% of all my mortgage payments on interest, I think renting suits my needs more.
I’m not diversified in the market, and although not making hands over fist of dollars, I am making money.
…Which beats paying money for money that isn’t mine.
I will never own until I find a house to create a family in that will last decades
Screw these people who feel they’re entitled to your wealth!
Recently I heard of a nice woman who is in real estate who will sell your home/condo/property for a flat fee ($1700) without a percentage of commission
…Wish I knew about her before signing anything – my fault, but live and learn.
Keep up the good work Garth!
#182 Vicpaul
it is cultural marxism.
I’ve also said FSBOs are mostly greedy sellers who don’t want to pay commission, but still price their properties as if they were. – Garth
Home buyers should always work with a realtor, it’s not like your paying them. You are basically getting their services for free-Garth (paraphrased)
????????????????????????????????????????
Which one is it?
Let me rephrase the question.
If A FSBO is not reducing the price even though no commission need be paid isn’t it true that if he did reduce the price is it not the buyer who is paying the commission in a round about way buy using a Realtor?
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/Those+signs+ugly+dated+could+fall+City+Champions+slogan/10874502/story.html
A bit of meat to bite into….
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/Opinion+women+Alberta+Disadvantage/10867720/story.html
#220 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 03.09.15 at 2:37 pm
#196 Smoking Man on 03.09.15 at 11:36 am
DELETED (Vulgarity)
………..
Ha, my first ever sobar deleted post.
Must have been something between, Budweiser girls, trampolines, and that dreaded yellow highlighter..
On recollection of what I wrote…
It warranted a delete…
My judgement is a bit off after all those things I experimented with to releve arthritis pain..
#214- #216
Three posts in a row denying climate change? There are other places on the internet (plenty, I bet) where you can make comments on the subject.
@BlackDog: Noted. It’s too bad I can’t post pictures here but I assure you I can get the job done.
Good news today: Loblaws is expanding. In the spirit if balanced coverage, I suppose that should be posted and we won’t just post instances where businesses close.
Shannon Wall Centre Phase 2 is going to be selling 3 bedroom units for $1 to $3 million. You have to be kidding me…
#46 md on 03.08.15 at 5:58 pm ,
Why is signing a BRA bad?
Like any agreement, the devil is in the details. If you read the agreement thoroughly and agree with all the details then it’s not so bad.
But most of the agreement is about YOU the buyer giving up your rights. Why? Because the real estate agents drafted it that way.
The fact of the matter is you as a buyer have the upper hand because there is an over supply of realtors. Try telling a real estate agent that you won’t sign a BRA and they’ll probably just say “ok, no big deal”. So why in the world would you give up your rights if you don’t have to?
At very least if you have a realtor you like to use that absoloutely requires a BRA then make sure to review the terms thoroughly and have a short cooling off period like 30 to 60 days. It’s ridiculous that they think you have to wait 1 year before being able to buy another property without their help.
@Don #201,
You are right of course. Who am I or anyone else to suggest who should be banned? I was being thoughtlessly rude. Sorry FreedomFirst.
Developers suing mayor Nenshi.
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/councillor-urges-anniversary-plaque-for-shane-homes-whose-ceo-has-sued-nenshi
#227 Smoking Man on 03.09.15 at 3:49 pm
#220 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 03.09.15 at 2:37 pm
#196 Smoking Man on 03.09.15 at 11:36 am
DELETED (Vulgarity)
………..
Ha, my first ever sobar deleted post.
Must have been something between, Budweiser girls, trampolines, and that dreaded yellow highlighter..
On recollection of what I wrote…
It warranted a delete…
My judgement is a bit off after all those things I experimented with to releve arthritis pain.
________________________________________
My experimenting days are over, have an old motorcycle injury in the shoulder and neck. What a mess, anyway arthritis set it. Try some of these alternative methods, might work for you!
Best of luck.
http://www.arthritistoday.org/about-arthritis/arthritis-pain/pain-relief/
So glad I’m not a Greek shipping Magnate.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-09/why-greek-shipping-billionaires-are-sweating
#210 BlackDog on 03.09.15 at 1:40 pm
Well why didn’t they say what bugged them, again many people skirt around issues and what realy bothers them.
I’m a hideous looking beast, years of drinking, smoking, poor dental hygen. Why would I force the woman I love to engage in activities to prevent me from getting prostate cancer. My ancyalizing spondilitus has made me a hunch back.
No one sits across from me on a packed go train, ever. Breath that would knock down the tallest tree in the rain forest.
I’ve got resources, my wife gets all fuzzy when the dude from the old spice comes on TV, I’ve offered to track him down for her… She declines.. Heck, got to admit he’s pretty hot, if I was tempted to switch teams, he would be the one.
Above all else, remeber, I’m an amature Fiction writer… Who like to introduce topics and get reactions, which I can later use..
But you, clearly you have a good head on your shoulders..
http://www.caodc.ca/rig-counts-drilling-dr-week
Holy Macanow! The rig count fell 22% for the week! How do I sell more Canadian $’s?
Just to clarify, the issue with the op SM rub & tug comment was not what he does in his spare time, or how douche-y he may or may not be in real life, as I do not give a flying f*^k.
It was that the post was completely OT, would be construed as pretty offensive to more than a few (male and female), AND posted in forum on a financial blog.
He was trolling for a reaction, (mission accomplished). I’d wager, doing some R & D for his epic novel I’m sure, whole thing pure BS in the first place.
I should *not* have fed the troll. That said, if you’re going to post inflammatory BS then take your lumps like a big boy.
As for Freedom First, I also don’t give a flying f*&k, he can post whatever he wants here within the guidelines, as we all do. Scroll, scroll, scroll.
That said, if you someone posts something “exceptionally – Grade-A” ignorant, be prepared to get called out.
GT seems like a reasonable man, the vast difference of opinion “allowed” here is in some cases, let through the common sense filters purely for the purpose of allowing the offending poster to hang themselves. Imho.
.. and now back to our regularly scheduled financial/economic/RE discussion.
DELETED (Sexist)
Greeks are threatening to go full retard.. yeah I know I’m not allowed to say that…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces-defence-minister-threatens-to-send-migrants-including-jihadists-to-Western-Europe.html
#236 Tom from Mississauga
——————————-]
Likely spring breakup has begun.
@SmokingMan re: “But you, clearly you have a good head on your shoulders.. ”
My gut tells me this was a sarcastic comment. That’s OK. I know I have issues.
Just a quick update for those who missed it in the last few weeks. And this goes to the ones who believe oil is dropping.
Today. Goldman reversed course on the prediction of oil dropping below $39 a barrel today. Not they say $40 is too low. Demand is increasing. woops.
Floating storage at see. Known as contango. At peak in the 2009 collapse there was 100 million barrels floating at sea. This was with Opec shutting off 3.6 million Barrels of supply when only 81 million was the daily requirement. Well it looks like the report of supertankers all over the world storing oil fizzled out. How much? In Jan it was reported 50 million barrels were to be floating. Well the numbers came out. Its now 25 million. Half. And firms are trying to exit the contracts.
Today Iraq increased the selling price for crude to Asia. Much higher than thought. They followed Saudi Arabia last week hike. And the hike applied to US as well.
The Gasoline demand numbers are out. You guessed it. Highest since Feb 1998. South of the boarder. Woops.
And how about those reporters standing in front of Cushings last week? Looks like that catastrophe aint happening. Between March 2 and march 6 just 157,000 barrels were added . Huh?? Where is the crisis?
There is still HUNDREDS of million is capacity on land. And the news reports this?
I wish everyone well, as they are in for the shock of their lives this summer when the real gas prices are coming.
By then Citi groups $20 prediction should be revised. Even when they missed all these signs and the one last night. The 47% increase in china exports.
#214-16 bdy sktrn,
why is it that only established Right wingnuts, like your good self, ever use the expression “settled science”?
The real world knows that science is a continuous process. Only ideology is terminally “settled”, but action should be based on real probability, not politically-useful belief.
@SmokingMan re: #235
One more thing – just because you consider yourself “an amature Fiction writer… Who like to introduce topics and get reactions, which I can later use..”, doesn’t make your words any less off putting.
I am perplexed by the contradiction Mr. Turner. You have spent these past seven years slagging realtors and their mothers, but when a FSBO attempts to circumvent the rapacious commissions (and deposit the difference in a balanced portfolio) you slag them as well.
Not slagging. I just wouldn’t buy a FSBO for reasons I’ve articulated in the past. There are no bargains there, and also no protections. I understand the FSBO seller’s motive. But a FSBO buyer is nuts. — Garth
“I think what Garth is saying is: Don’t buy Real Estate
Hardly. Just do it in the fashion that protects you best. — Garth”
For most people, right now, in the GTA “Don’t buy Real Estate” would be a good advice
#188 Julia
“I have to admit though, with houses selling for more than twice what we paid…and wonder whether we should just sell and buy a smaller condo in the same area.”
Julia, have you considered the other option, renting that condo? If you were to crystallize those gains by selling, invest the proceeds in the balanced portfolio suggested here, you may be pleasantly surprised to find that it chucks out a nice monthly sum, enough to pay your rent and provide an income. It did for us.
The federal ‘government’ is closer to a cartel than Treb crea etc.
5% is blended into market value including mva
#245 BlackDog on 03.09.15 at 5:26 pm
@SmokingMan re: #235
One more thing – just because you consider yourself “an amature Fiction writer… Who like to introduce topics and get reactions, which I can later use..”, doesn’t make your words any less off putting.
……..
Your right, I’m immature ass, Im sure if had I had daughters rather than son’s. I’d be the biggest femanazis around.
I guess my comments are a lame response, a back lash of some kind of what I see as the state sponsored emasculation of the male.
We need ruffians around, you never know what war will break out. If we’re ever attacked, who’s going to defend us.
The emasculated male..
I have to admit, your a good communicator, to the point, no dancing around like the others.
Well, let’s see, the FSBO must be doing some work that needs to be done in order to to sell his property. But in G’s opinion he has no right to be compensated for it not lower the price by what a realtor would take doing mostly the same thing. In any case, I can not see how $50-$60k is justifiable for the amount of time he puts in. Even less so taking a percentage of the property’s value. I’d be ok pay to a realtor a commission, based on billable hours. For $50-$60k you can hire and train a person full time for a year to look for buyers…
#242 BlackDog on 03.09.15 at 5:05 pm
@SmokingMan re: “But you, clearly you have a good head on your shoulders.. ”
My gut tells me this was a sarcastic comment. That’s OK. I know I have issues.
……
Ha wasn’t sarcastic at all, but now that I’ve read it again. Lol…
Black Dog. Your good.
You definitely made my book, just need to find out where I can slide you in.
I think this is the first time I’ve apologized on here… A tribute to your sence of the herd, very impressed with your call on things.
transparency in Florida really? what about the land the house sits e.g. sinkholes / flooding / bad drywall and FLOOD insurance?
And lately banning certain words related to climate
see article – center for investigative reporting
http://fcir.org/2015/03/08/in-florida-officials-ban-term-climate-change/
FEMA Exec Tells ’60 Minutes’ He’s Seen Evidence of Fraudulent Reports
March 2, 2015
Related Articles:
FEMA in Talks to Settle Sandy Flood Insurance Claims
Sandy Flood Insurance Issues Said to Be Focus of Criminal Probe
Sandy Flood Insurers Ordered to Disclose Drafts of Engineering Reports
Lawmakers: Sandy Flood Insurance Concerns Will Be Addressed
Superstorm Sandy Victims Allege Racketeering in Flood Claims Review
…Other insurers participating in the FEMA program, including affiliates of Travelers Cos. and Hartford Financial, have also been accused by homeowners in separate lawsuits of rejecting or underpaying claims based on falsified reports.
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2015/03/02/359006.htm
Gents..here’s the deal:
– forget about raising rates in the States because feds want it. They will go whopper but only because market will want so. That’s south, never mind.
Big White North:
– I would not be surprised if our morons will cut rates again. RE is the only driving ponzi scheme in the land. Politicos rather deal with crap later than deal with crap now. So they will ease further just about the time RE hits the ground.
– of course these rates will give in turn tremendous budget deficits putting further down pressure on the canadian pesso (by the way, gold is doing fantastic in canadian pesso)
– at some point los federales in Ottawa will HAVE to raise interest rates , but only when the pesso will accelerate downwards.
– by the time canadian pesso hits 58c the huge interest rates will move in being sensed by the market (massive treasury bonds sell offs plus derivatives held by our so-well-administered-infaillible-banking -system.
– of course, by the mid of 2016 we’ll see a bank or two going under with outhers traying to be bailed out. Yes gents, OUR BANKS.
-whatever stock market does is irrelevant since is only going up with money print.
Yes Gartho, by late august I expect to see a bottle of Finlandia (full) gentle thrown my way. I will reply in kind (with whatever you like) in the most unlikely case that the gringos down south decide to lift their interest rates any time this year.
..sorry.. that’s what the belly button says..
PS ..and forget the “companies sitting on the cash”. That cash will not last long once the smelly stuff hits the fan.
herb?
And a good day to you sir.
In testimony to Congress about global warming, Al Gore declared that “the science is settled”
the alarmists INVENTED the phrase. try to keep up.
http://www.thescienceisstillsettled.com/
http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLltxIX4B8_URNUzDE2sXctnUAEXgEDDGn&v=T8-YdgU-CF4
Hay everybudy, I known its slightly off topic but
It has now been proven: the earth is flat.
Bought a house in 2001 directly from owner. Got a thorough house inspection by an engineer firm. Our lawyer looked at and approved the deal. There was no risk. The seller and us split the non-existent RE salesperson commission. Would do it again in a heartbeat. After over 10 years, nothing wrong with the house.
“Teranet gets a 50-year extension of its contract, giving the company’s owners at the pension fund OMERS confidence that their investment will be around and throwing off cash for decades. Teranet will be on the hook for the full cost of maintaining and upgrading the system, freeing Ontario from any cash outlays.”
Was there an open tender??? OMERS??? Sounds like a sweetheart deal to me. It’s just a database folks – scanned paper surveys and simple records – not rocket science.
Wow – and I see the same thing happened in Manitoba – no tender but 30 year sole source deal.
#248 AfterTheHouseSold
Yes, we have considered renting a condo instead of buying. The only thing that is stopping me there is my need to feel stability in a neighbourhood – mainly for the kids school – and I am not convinced I would have that by renting.
Who’s forecasting a ‘major’ burst? — G
But don’t fundamentals like income like we mention on this blog have everything to do with prices ? House have tripled in Vancouver over the last 10 years. So no crash? So this means local incomes are irrelevant?
Markets unwind in many ways. Wait and see. — Garth
“Greeks are threatening to go full retard.. yeah I know I’m not allowed to say that…”
They are only saying what most reasonable people already know … Greeks can’t pay the debts back. In fact, who can, and who will? All this “austerity measures” is turning out to be domination by finance. What Hitler failed to do with his army, the bankers are trying to do with debt. It didn’t work then, and it won’t work now.
“Julia, have you considered the other option, renting that condo? If you were to crystallize those gains by selling, invest the proceeds in the balanced portfolio suggested here, you may be pleasantly surprised to find that it chucks out a nice monthly sum … ”
All’s well when markets are going up ….. but when they start going down for a couple of years, you start eating your “rent producing” principal …