The manipulators

MAN modified modified

Why do people make stupid investments? That’s easy. Greed. Add in sex and food and you’ve pretty much explained what manipulates human society. I’d say Nancy Taza knows that well. More of her in a moment.

This week’s arrest of the career, 63-year-old Toronto lawyer who accidently lost $12.1 million in condo deposits then went bankrupt and could face up to 300 charges of fraud and breach of trust got me to thinking. Buyers in that unbuilt edifice fronted deposits ranging from $40,000 to $700,000, when the new home warranty program would cover only $20,000. Obviously they took a giant risk – as do all pre-construction purchasers – given the fact they secured nothing but a futures contract. In this case not only did the developer take off, the sales staff disappear and construction never commence, but the lawyer collecting deposits was untrustworthy.

Beyond these risks – against which there is virtually no effective protection in law – pre-build buyers make a huge commitment to a structure they can’t see, touch or gauge the quality of. They have no idea of the building’s ultimate demographics and social mix, durability of construction (the windows factor) or future resale value.

In short, a stupid investment. So, cue the greed.

In Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal, people who are afraid of predictable financial assets have routinely thrown money into rank real estate speculation, greased along by realtors sometimes as wanting in ethics as they are in math skills. The outcome could be a mess, and the spray could blot the entire housing market.

Let’s have an example. So here’s Nancy, a 31-year-old dynamo, who opened her own little condo-slogging boutique office a year ago. She’s a promoter, dog-lover (that part’s good) and an aggressive marketer. Here’s her Facebook photo, which will give you a little glimpse into the pizazz she’s bringing to Taza real estate.

TAZA FACEBOOK modified  All that’s cool and good. Selling condos is the ultimate in eat-what-you-kill, commission-driven salesmanship. Most people would crash and burn. But succeeding by fuelling the flames of avarice within novice and naïve investors, who you’re leading into massive purchases and heaping piles of debt, is definitely not cool.

This week, Taza real estate sent out an email blast that helps us understand why thousands of people too timid to buy a preferred share in a stable bank paying 5% and giving you a fat tax break would risk hundreds of thousands on an unbuilt concrete box in a market clogged with inventory. The offer is for a few two-bedroom condos in a development called Quartz which will be built sometime next year, sitting in the middle of a vast condo community called CityPlace.

Here’s the pitch:

“The prices I am offering you are significantly lower than today’s market value.  I assure you this is the best deal you will ever find in downtown Toronto, but you must act fast! I’m presenting you with a 2 Bedroom incredible investment opportunity. $20,000 Discount Directly Off the Top of the Builder’s Price + Additional 8% Credit Cash Back On Closing.”

So, a condo ‘worth’ $479,900 is being offered at $423,108 (which means that’s what it’s really worth. Maybe.) Ten per cent down now, another ten on closing. Here’s Nancy’s math, and where the greed juices really start to flow:

WHAT TO EXPECT
* Monthly Mortgage Payment: (Based on 20% Down Payment with a 2.99% 5 Year fixed mortgage rate) $1425
* Monthly Tax: (based on 0.9% 2015 property tax rate increase) $317
* Maintenance fee:  (.51cents /sf) $427
* Total Monthly Obligation: $2169
Rental Value: $2350
Monthly Rental Income: $181

Return on Investment after 3 years of possession:
Exclusive savings from the builder price:  $56,792
Value Appreciation:  (based on 4% year) $76,784
Rental Income:  ($181 per month x 3 years) $6,516
Mortgage principal paid by tenant:  ($600 x 3 years) $21,600

Total Return on Investment: $161,692

Wow. Spend $90,000 buying a two-banger in CondoLand and score a profit of $161,692 three years later? Sign me up, babe!

See what I mean? She’s good. Ignored was the opportunity cost of the $90,000 down payment, which invested at 7% would mean $525 a month should be added to the true cost of the unit. That alone bumps the monthly to $2,694. By the way, CondoLand is peppered with rental two-bedroom condos available for $1,900 or $2,000 (a larger unit than this), so a moist little landlord could expect to be losing about $800 a month.

But it gets worse. The difference between the sale price and the builder’s fictional price ($56,792) is lumped into ‘total return on investment’, then the whole shebang is goosed by 4% annually for the next three years, when most investors in the same hood shed tears of joy when they recoup their original purchase price after that period of time. The rental income is a cash flow loss, and adding the repayment of debt as ROI is nothing buy voodoo accounting.

This is deceptive and misleading. It guarantees future returns. It details no downside. It’s honey for the unsophisticated, nectar for the gullible. Sexy, riskless, urbane, alluring – and unregulated.

We’ll all pay for it.

184 comments ↓

#1 Ray Skunk on 08.27.14 at 7:46 pm

$2350 to rent a condo in Cityplace?

Bullshit of the highest order.

#2 ILoveCharts on 08.27.14 at 7:48 pm

Is the answer for more heavy regulation of the real estate industry or less regulation of the financial products industry? What happened to survival of the fittest and buyer-beware? Let’s break up the real estate boards and allow a little competition – someone will come out on top with a solid trustworthy reputation.

#3 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.27.14 at 7:51 pm

Looks like we found a Brad Lamb wannabe… she looks better in a tanktop though.

#4 Robert Ford on 08.27.14 at 7:53 pm

All (well, almost all) real estate sales people are scums, dirt bag, and worse than human waste…

#5 totalinvestor.com on 08.27.14 at 7:53 pm

Who cares, she’s hot.

http://postimg.org/image/y7i4cizml/

#6 Andrew Woburn on 08.27.14 at 7:54 pm

This is deceptive and misleading. It guarantees future returns. It details no downside. It’s honey for the unsophisticated, nectar for the gullible. Sexy, riskless, urbane, alluring – and unregulated.
===========================

Meanwhile, the BC Securities Commission recently made me refile quarterly financial statements. My sin? We are required to notify readers that the interim statements were not reviewed by auditors. I placed the notice on the first page. I had to refile so I could put it on the second page as per regulation. Imagine if realtors had to meet this kind of scrutiny?

#7 Canaan on 08.27.14 at 7:57 pm

Voodoo accounting is absolutely right! I’ve always wanted to ask…do realtors have a fiduciary duty under law to their clients? Me thinks not….

#8 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.27.14 at 7:58 pm

Off topic from today’s post, but wanted to comment on a SOLD property I drove by today (and compare to some past blog posts).

This place just sold in less than a week:
http://www.michaelmeltzer.ca/property/155-fairlawn-avenue/

$1.3M for a 3-bedroom house in North Toronto (Yonge & Lawrence area). The house is nothing remarkable… normal sized lot, extension from 10+ years ago.

Now, let’s look back at some GreaterFool commentary for that same neighbourhood:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2011/04/04/the-sure-thing-2-2/

April 2011, and a 5-bedroom house a few blocks north sold for $1,162,000 in a 12-offer bidding war.

We’re now 3+ years past, and a smaller and less updated 3-bedroom house sells for 11% MORE than the 5-bedroom on Melrose.

Have we reached the point of peak house horniness?

#9 OttawaRenting on 08.27.14 at 7:58 pm

A quick look online and around town here in Ottawa … Loooong time listings and tons of condos for rent.

I walked down 5th Ave Glebe . Every 5th house is for sale it seems. All over $1M .

Ottawa. When this old bit$5 feels the housing pinch … YOU know the crash is ON like DONKEY KONG!

#10 Roman on 08.27.14 at 8:02 pm

Monthly Rental Income: $181? Really? 181?! One eighty one? Hahahahaha.
Baby, it won’t buy me even an ounce.

#11 ShawnG in TO on 08.27.14 at 8:03 pm

How come I can’t get a 20x leveraged million dollar investment account, backed by tax payers, advised by 6% commission costing say-what-you-can-make-up salesperson, inversely protected by BRA?

It is an outrage! Canada is tramping on my personal freedom ! (except the million $ tax payer backing part)

#12 gladiator on 08.27.14 at 8:05 pm

Garth, these people must be very thankful for your promotion of their businesses.
You have the ear of a nation and they are small fish getting this national exposure.
Even negative advertising is still advertising.
You are a good man, Garth.
Hug?

#13 Paully on 08.27.14 at 8:07 pm

DELETED

#14 Roman on 08.27.14 at 8:08 pm

Garth, you should leave alone this poor RE scambugs.

Lets discuss how’s 30Y bond is doing, last run before crash?

Meantime, German 10Y bund is below 1%, whoo-hooo! What’s their RE doing, I wonder. Can I sell Toronto’s coophouse and buy a 2 level penthouse in Munich?

#15 Millenial on 08.27.14 at 8:11 pm

Hey Garth,

Nancy Taza and Erin Bury should have brunch together at Le Select Bistro this weekend.

lol.

#16 Observer on 08.27.14 at 8:20 pm

In Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal, people who are afraid of predictable financial assets have routinely thrown money into rank real estate speculation…..

Where are you Mr Poloz?

#17 Smoking Man on 08.27.14 at 8:22 pm

My book is going to be a huge success.

By the pool today, a lady power reading books for two days now.

Introduce myself, told her about the book. Asked for an honest opinion on Chapter 1

She reads chapter 1. Blew her mind, made me give her my email address, wants to be the first to by a copy.

She’s never read anything like that before. She said.

I’m hooked……

I asked how many book do you read, she said 3 a week.

She love it….

#18 mark on 08.27.14 at 8:23 pm

Sounds like someone who should be on thedirty.

#19 Cici on 08.27.14 at 8:24 pm

I love that photo!

I aspire to become that cool and funny when (and if) I get that old.

#20 anti-spammer on 08.27.14 at 8:26 pm

I would bet any money that she didn’t get proven consent from most of the people on that email list, which would leave her open to prosecution under the new anti-spam legislation
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-digital/biz-categories-technology/businesses-rush-to-comply-with-tough-new-anti-spam-law/article17609044/

#21 Banjopete on 08.27.14 at 8:27 pm

Buy now and I’ll throw in all this exclusive magic Realturds water!

#22 Son of Ponzi on 08.27.14 at 8:29 pm

Buyers in that unbuilt edifice fronted deposits ranging from $40,000 to $700,000, when the new home warranty program would cover only $20,000.
——————
Wow, 700k deposit.
Who’s got that kind of money?

#23 JSS on 08.27.14 at 8:30 pm

She is hot.

I will buy a unit.

#24 Catalyst on 08.27.14 at 8:30 pm

At least she works for a living, unlike 34% of the population. Of the remaining 66%, at least 3/4 of them couldn’t hack it making a living in an eat what you kill environment.

Buyer beware, spin those numbers girl!

#25 Waterloo Resident on 08.27.14 at 8:30 pm

If Garth is correct and that mortgage rates follow the bond market, then very soon now mortgage rates are going to start falling, falling towards zero.

Don’t just take my work for it, see for yourself at how the interest rates on 10-year bonds are crashing lately:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=^TNX&t=1y&l=on&z=l&q=l&p=&a=&c=

Five-year Canada bonds (the only ones that matter) are at 2012 levels. Not exactly a crash. — Garth

#26 Darth on 08.27.14 at 8:38 pm

That the mutual fund industry (with an average MER of over 2%) and the real estate industry continue to survive and indeed, thrive, just speaks to the utter stupidity of Canadians.

The government taxes away big chunks of our incomes, then self-serving mutual fund salesmen lay their hooks at a rate of 2+% of what’s left over to invest and finally, real estate agents with a colour business card (that always has a picture of their face) convince us to buy boxes in the air for ridiculous amounts of money, taking on massive 25+ year debt obligations while they walk off with their commissions a few months later, not to be heard from again until “prospecting” day. No wonder very few people can retire with a secure financial future. People are stupid.

I’d rather a Meerai Cho take 20k from me and run than convince me to buy a piece of crap condo I’m going to have to pay off over 25 years (which would have been worthless and unsellable after 5 years because the windows were falling off and the underground parking walls and ceilings were crumbling and there’s thousands of them around). Ever seen what a 25 year old condo looks like? If these victims of Centrium don’t ever buy a condo because of this and they learn not to trust anyone with their financial affairs, they’re better off having lost their deposit because in the long run they would have lost more.

It sucks they had their money stolen but that’s a much cheaper way to learn the lesson than parking all your money in a 3% MER mutual fund for 20 years…. assuming you average a 500k balance for those 20 years, that’s 15k a year for 20, which equals 300k, assuming no opportunity cost. How stupid would you feel when you realize you could have had the exact same thing for a fraction of the cost in an ETF.

People are stupid. Ever seen a 25 year old condo? Wait till you see a 25 year old condo that was built in 2010.

#27 Van Isle Renter on 08.27.14 at 8:41 pm

“Meanwhile, the BC Securities Commission recently made me refile quarterly financial statements. My sin? We are required to notify readers that the interim statements were not reviewed by auditors. I placed the notice on the first page. I had to refile so I could put it on the second page as per regulation. Imagine if realtors had to meet this kind of scrutiny?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just another reason why I retired from being a pubco director. Not worth the trouble. Or the liability. Public company directors face massive personal liability on everything from CRA withholdings to environmental issues.

Being a relator is a piece of cake; say whatever you want, concoct any story and then say: “Who, me? You must be mistaken. You signed away any right to sue me when you hired me. Look at the CREA approved agreement that you signed. What? You didn’t read it? You trusted me? Putz….”

#28 DocInWaitingRoom on 08.27.14 at 8:43 pm

This society has a lot of trash bags contributing nothing but sucking the life out of innovation and regular peoples money.

The brief ride will be soon over for these DBs

#29 Cici on 08.27.14 at 8:43 pm

The carrying costs aren’t properly accounted for either…wow, someone who’s worse at math than I am, and ADVERTISING it to boot.

And what’s the deal with the cheerleader getup and fallicly aligned t-shirt condos perched upon her? For an 18-year old that might be cute, but for a 31-year old, that just screams tacky condo *****. Oh well, could be worse…at least she’s not working as an accountant.

#30 randman on 08.27.14 at 8:46 pm

“Meanwhile, the BC Securities Commission recently made me refile quarterly financial statements. My sin? We are required to notify readers that the interim statements were not reviewed by auditors. I placed the notice on the first page. I had to refile so I could put it on the second page as per regulation. Imagine if realtors had to meet this kind of scrutiny?”

With your advise on this blog..I’m not surprised!

#31 TEMPORARY® Foreign Prime Minister on 08.27.14 at 8:47 pm

Value Appreciation: (based on 4% year) $76,784
====================

Sure.

Another pop tart slogging vertically stacked rodent cages.

Good luck with that. The only think that would drive up GTA condo prices right now would be an earthquake.

#32 FormerSaskie on 08.27.14 at 8:48 pm

90K is a good chunk of cash so you would think that people would take the time to play with the math a little bit before handing the money over to a glossy salesperson. Maybe, if the deposit had to be paid in actual bills people would realize how much money they stand to lose. If sales slow dramatically in Canada, many of these young people will lose so many interesting life opportunities because they have a massive debt that needs to be fed monthly. These developments should be named Lost Opportunity.

#33 M on 08.27.14 at 8:48 pm

Babes always helped selling cars,planes,boats, so why not condos. You male chauvinist pigs you are and amongst you all, I am the first :)

Babes are for decoration, it’s just normal. Who do you want to pose sexily and softly ? Garth ? Myself ?.. yuck.

So gentlemen-and I am using this term loosely- let her be. All we should do is send flowers and a phone number :) Remember, greed works both ways so an unforgettable weekend might be even possible :) (even if somehow-unlikely)

#34 M on 08.27.14 at 8:51 pm

DELETED

#35 Joseph R. on 08.27.14 at 8:52 pm

“Beyond these risks – against which there is virtually no effective protection in law – pre-build buyers make a huge commitment to a structure they can’t see, touch or gauge the quality of.”

One can easily make an analogy between pre-built condos and the purchase of new military aircrafts….

#36 Ben on 08.27.14 at 8:54 pm

Had some friends over from the UK to Montreal, they went on a horse and cart round the Old Port. I kid you not the guy driving the cart was telling them real-estate in Montreal was cheap and a great investment.

Joseph Kennedy “knew it was time to get out of the market when he received stock tips from a shoe-shine boy”

#37 Robert Agnew on 08.27.14 at 8:55 pm

Realtors are essentially sales people who take a cut of the buy and sell transaction. The amount of work to get a 5% commission is trivial. If there is a problem they take no hit you’re left holding the bag. My first real estate agent was absolutely useless – they messed up on a fee for a copy of a condo report and I had funds stuck in escrow for 2 months. They manipulate emotions to drive sales and hold a monopoly over public rcords of sale – they own the city politicians and use community events and charities to line their pockets. It is all about the money – like a car salesman.

#38 Sebee on 08.27.14 at 8:59 pm

She was 63? That ends any doubt that it was a scam all the way. Little end of carrier quickie for 12m – we split it halvsies. Let’s do it!

#39 Fed-up on 08.27.14 at 9:01 pm

Lol $2350 per month in rent, on what planet???

What a dork! Hahahahahahahaha…I needed a good laugh.

#40 Happy Renting on 08.27.14 at 9:05 pm

Greed and sex, sure, but Nancy is missing the food angle (bottled water does not count!)

The problem with voodoo accounting is that the financially unsophisticated (that’s 90%+ of us) fall for it. It really should be illegal to advertise wildly incomplete and biased projected returns like that. People are gullible enough to believe there will be no tenant damage, vacancies, or special assessments. In other words, a total vacation from reality.

#41 Second Class on 08.27.14 at 9:07 pm

No closin costs factored in. Garunteed value increase. No factoring of higher tax assessments.

What a crock. You can make $181 a month on 50k in a mutual and have the same potential for 4% a year increase in value.

Minus the closing costs and property tax of course.

#42 Happy Renting on 08.27.14 at 9:08 pm

Off topic: is it me or has Cat Food Lady not been around lately? I miss her comments.

#43 Bloefeld on 08.27.14 at 9:10 pm

Here is a good way to value an asset.

The net present value of the cash flow it generates. Nothing else matters.

If you are speculating on real estate, the cash flow generated at the end of the period you hold it is the majority of the return.

Do the math, it is easy. Just set up an Excel spreadsheet and use the NPV function. This will tell you the true rate of return over the life of the investment on an annualized and reliable basis. In real estate I would use a discount rate of no less than 10% per year because of the market risk. 25 years ago I used closer to 20%.

#44 Trojan House on 08.27.14 at 9:11 pm

#11 ShawnG in TO

In all seriousness, I agree. Get a $400K mortgage, no problem. Can I borrow $400K to open an itrade investment account and invest in a balanced portfolio of ETFs, bonds, etc? Not a chance.

I suppose everyone needs or is entitled to a place to live but not everyone needs or is entitled to an investment account paying 7%.

#45 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 9:11 pm

#23 Catalyst on 08.27.14 at 8:30 pm
“At least she works for a living, unlike 34% of the population.”

Excuse me, but are you implying my 91-year-old grandma and my niece and nephews, who are pre-k, are worse than her because they don’t work? (or anyone else who is retired or younger than 18 years-old).

You’re either a re-tard, or a realturd. Do you understand how the demographic pyramid works?

#46 Andrea Sargeant on 08.27.14 at 9:13 pm

I really like the way you structured this answer.
Thank you.

#47 will on 08.27.14 at 9:13 pm

Well harper said we wouldn’t recognize Canada when he gets through with it. Maybe when we get stuff like a regulated real estate market harper won’t recognize Canada when WE get through with it. We need regulation. and we need a cpi that reflects reality. harper’s gotta go. we need to elect a conservative government. the liberals currently in control gotta go. (if ya know what I mean).

I think I’ll say that again: We need to elect a conservative government. The liberals currently in control gotta go.

#48 Anson on 08.27.14 at 9:24 pm

How can this advertising be legal?
Mark my words, the Canadian gvt will pass laws and legislation to ensure that this kind of shady business practice never happens again, but unfortunately these changes will come after the housing capitulation.

#49 Squidly77 on 08.27.14 at 9:24 pm

The highlight of this post for me is this, $0.51 per sq ft maintenance fee per month! Are you kidding me. As in any financial abuse, follow the money. Research your condo, strike that, don’t buy a condo period, or you’ll be con-ed do-pe.

#50 omg, the original on 08.27.14 at 9:25 pm

Truly the real estate industry is the wild west of investing, like the stock market was 80 years ago.

It will take a major meltdown in the real estate market and thousand of people left holding the bag, before governments will ever step in and regulate.

Until then its caveat emptor.

After all is the Ontario government going to spend millions to regulate the condo industry when for the most part any buyer of RE in Toronto has made out like a bandit over the past decade. (also wanna bet that condo developers have contributed millions to the all political parties over the past decade.)

And actually its WAY easier for the average schmuck to figure out the numbers on an investment property versus a share in an actual company.

So if you do not do DD on an investment analysis like the babette Taza is offering – you the FOOL.

#51 takla on 08.27.14 at 9:26 pm

Would I buy anything from this women? You bet….about an hour of her time should do,and based on her accounting skills im thinking im getting one h_ll of a deal……I luv it when you see the B.Sc. behind these realtors name on the business card,should stand for “bull shitters club” !!

#52 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 9:28 pm

#36 Fed-up on 08.27.14 at 9:01 pm
“Lol $2350 per month in rent, on what planet???

What a dork! Hahahahahahahaha…I needed a good laugh.”

If you think that is a lot (it’s not), check out a 2 bedroom at The Berczy, or the Gooderham in the Distillery District. Even around College Park, it’s way more expensive. So are the new buildings around John St and Simcoe. In fact, it’s cheaper than anything north of the tracks and East of Bathurst to pretty much the Distillery District, except for a few streets on East of Yonge.

CityPlace rents are in the range of $2.55 psf and $2.75 psf. So a 2bed at 820 sf is between $2091 and $2255 a month.

Here’s a real shocker: Regent Park developments East of Downtown Toronto range about $2.70 as well. And it’s a former slum/shit-hole.

#53 Joseph R. on 08.27.14 at 9:30 pm

#33 Ben on 08.27.14 at 8:54 pm

“Had some friends over from the UK to Montreal, they went on a horse and cart round the Old Port. I kid you not the guy driving the cart was telling them real-estate in Montreal was cheap and a great investment.”

My dad told me the same this week. He told me they are building a mega-hospital near the Old Port; Professionals, doctors and nurses will be the ones to buy these condos since its close to the hospital and as such, they are crash-proof. He didn’t say it was cheap but that it always goes up in the long run.

He is pushing to buy at all cost. He told me stories around the 21% interest rates of the 80s and how he had to do jogging in the basement just to relieve the stress. He also believes that the government will not allow interest rates to rise because it will kill real estate market.

He has been a Real Estate investor for 35 years.

#54 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 9:34 pm

#36 Fed-up on 08.27.14 at 9:01 pm
“Lol $2350 per month in rent, on what planet???”

In addition, they chick doesn’t specify how big that unit is. I bet it’s based on something north of 900 sf. When I was doing research, I chatted with a realtor in CityPlace about some “Special discounts only he could get” on two units south-facing in 155 Dan Leckie. They were well over 900 sf, “listed” at $475k, and discounted to $440k or so plus a 2nd parking stall ($35k according to him. I laughed). Point is: Concord has made plenty of money on this real estate that they just want to get rid of these units. And this Taza lady ain’t the only flogger in CityPlace…

#55 Habs76-79 on 08.27.14 at 9:34 pm

#31 FormerSaskie.

Maybe, if the deposit had to be paid in actual bills people would realize how much money they stand to lose.

—————–

YUP!

I’d bet $100 each that these people who’d hand over such money to that condo flogger would probably want to punch the lights out of a low brow, back ally, con man trying to con them out of say $20 with a cup and ball trick.

It amazes me how cavalier people can be when playing with huge sums of money they have or worse borrow.

#56 devore on 08.27.14 at 9:39 pm

Value Appreciation: (based on 4% year) $76,784
Rental Income: ($181 per month x 3 years) $6,516

The difference between these two amounts is all you need to know about real estate investing in Canada.

#57 -=jwk=- on 08.27.14 at 9:50 pm

Humans were not meant to inhabit Cityplace. It was built to buy, flip, buy repeatedly. No thought was put into to actual functioning living space – why bother when none of your purchasers intend to live there?

2bed, 2bath and a den…740sf. BTW it rents for $2000:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-2-bedroom-apartments-condos/city-of-toronto/luxury-2-den-in-city-place-oct1st/1011840937?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

#58 Egg on 08.27.14 at 9:52 pm

there are errors in these numbers

#1 telling us the mortgage is a 5 year 2.99% is not enough information since we do not know the amortization period and hence cannot confirm the mortgage pay-down numbers.

#2 the monthly income of $181 is in fact a cash flow positive, and not a negative. you do not subtract an opportunity cost. that is in fact voodoo accounting.

#3 exclusive saving from the builders price is, as pointed out in the article, irrelevant.

#4 “the whole shebang is goosed up 4%” is actually the correct way to do it; presumably the market value of the house at time T (now) is $479,900

#5 not sure where the comment “adding the repayment of debt is voodoo economics” comes from. it looks to me that she has added the principle payments of $600/month, which would be correct.

Back of the envelope calculation is $60k for appreciation, $6.5 for rental income and $21.6 for mortgage repayment which totals approximately $88k. the article states she spends $90k to buy so its about a 25% annual return. you can then compare that to your expected return on a financial portfolio and make your decision.

Stick to poultry. — Garth

#59 RayofLight on 08.27.14 at 9:55 pm

Write this down: come August 27th, Saxony Manor will fetch less than its mortgage. Let’s crowdfund the sucker. Greater Fool.
Any one track how this came out?

#60 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 9:59 pm

#41 Bloefeld on 08.27.14 at 9:10 pm
“Here is a good way to value an asset.

The net present value of the cash flow it generates. Nothing else matters.”

NPV doesn’t “value” assets. It shows the increase in present value of cash flows if bought at the initial cash flow (i.e. investment or purchase price – a cash outflow), using a predetermined discount rate.

What you are thinking of as a “True rate of return” is the Internal Rate of Return (IRR). It’s the discount rate that makes NPV = 0. If IRR is greater than your required rate of return, say 10%, then the investment will be a positive NPV and will make you richer. Conversely, if NPV is negative, then the IRR will be below your required rate of return, and you will be worse off.

Required rate of return is subjective.

#61 John Prine on 08.27.14 at 10:02 pm

#4 Robert Ford on 08.27.14 at 7:53 pm
All (well, almost all) real estate sales people are scums, dirt bag, and worse than human waste…

What an asinine statement to make, you obviously only spend time with the worst. There are bad bankers, realtors, doctors, teachers, mechanics. Don’t be such a loser.

#62 ShawnG in TO on 08.27.14 at 10:05 pm

@Trojan House
thank you for your comments.

lets consider the other side. what’s a bigger financial risk? a 400,000 mortgage amort. 25 years, where you’ll end up paying nearly 800,000 in principal and interest. Or 40,000 investments in Canadian Bank ETF?

If my certified financial planner tells me any BS on the investment, she’ll probably lose her job. But a load of crazy BS from the realtord, and I won’t have much of a chance to win a law suit.

like what “omg, the original” have said, unless there is a meltdown, our politicians won’t do a thing about it.

#63 Cici on 08.27.14 at 10:05 pm

#40 Happy Renting

Me too…Hope she didn’t buy a condo, and especially not a pre-build ;-(

#64 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 10:08 pm

#44 Trojan House on 08.27.14 at 9:11 pm
“#11 ShawnG in TO

In all seriousness, I agree. Get a $400K mortgage, no problem. Can I borrow $400K to open an itrade investment account and invest in a balanced portfolio of ETFs, bonds, etc? Not a chance.”

Actually, you can. You just need a hell of a lot of collateral to put up before your banker will become friends with you.

In Uni, I was a teller a Cdn sub of a giant London-based bank that targeted the Asian demographic. And I had a couple of white gents (son and father) who had deep pockets and a construction company with accounts there. Jr had plenty of “margin” in his trading account. Then when the GFC started to ramp, the big bad bank decided to do a “margin call”. Let’s just say jr wasn’t too friendly when he came into the bank to make deposits…

#65 Andrew Woburn on 08.27.14 at 10:10 pm

#30 randman on 08.27.14 at 8:46 p
With your advise on this blog..I’m not surprised!
========================

Obviously you are a realtor who was kicked out of school before they taught the class how to spell “advice”.

#66 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 10:18 pm

#47 will on 08.27.14 at 9:13 pm
“We need regulation. and we need a cpi that reflects reality. harper’s gotta go.
we need to elect a conservative government. the liberals currently in control gotta go. (if ya know what I mean).”

I know you’re trying to be philosophical, rather than political, when you call the Harperites “liberals”. But in actual philosophical terms, you actually want real “liberals” (i.e. economic liberals), not what passes for the CPC or the LPC are today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Unfortunately, the populous doesn’t like fending for itself too much, and therefore needs to be coddled. Hence, you won’t get much shrinkage of government.

That said… don’t call what you want a “conservative” government if what you want relates to economics. There is no such thing and conservative economics.

#67 will on 08.27.14 at 10:19 pm

to smoking man #17. hey smoking man are you going to tell us the title of this book? you’ve been talking about it for long enough. why not come out of your closet and let the blog dogs do some marketing for your opus? whatsamatter? we’re all with ya. let’s breathe some life into this opus or yours. get it outta the closet. that’s my recommendation. stop being so mysterious. whats the title? who are you?

Stop encouraging him. — Garth

#68 Realties.ca » The manipulators on 08.27.14 at 10:29 pm

[…] Source:: http://www.greaterfool.ca/2014/08/27/the-manipulators-3/ […]

#69 Ferrari321 on 08.27.14 at 10:34 pm

Shes so hot – I’m sure shes amazing at math …

#70 Armand R. Dillhole on 08.27.14 at 10:37 pm

Even more importantly than all of this you can buy a new Kia right now for $39 a week. Even get 84 month and 0% financing.
That’s the world we’re living in. Surely it says something amount the state of the average person’s finances when that is what it takes to sell modestly priced cars. It’s all about only $39 per week soon they will be doing it like the charity commercials and telling you a daily price less then a burger at a fast food joint. Condos will reach that point to the way it’s going.

Anyway can you cosign for a new Kia for me Garth, Please.

Ms. Taza can come and help me with my busy real estate creation anytime. After all as a real estate agent I have a million things to do in a day. byi’mgone.con it’s a labour of love I just like helping people as I’m sure Ms. Taza does.

#71 Catalyst on 08.27.14 at 10:49 pm

@#45 Kenchie

http://economics.about.com/od/unemploymentrate/f/labor_force.htm

#72 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 10:54 pm

#58 Egg on 08.27.14 at 9:52 pm

“#4 “the whole shebang is goosed up 4%” is actually the correct way to do it; presumably the market value of the house at time T (now) is $479,900”

I just did a quick calculation: $479.9k * 1.04^3 = $539.8.. In other words, an increase of $59.9k. Which is quite a bit lower than the $76k she claims.

Another thing she forgets is that GST is payable on new condos. So add 5% to either $479.9k or $423.1k.

FYI: $423.1K * 1.04^3 = $475.9k.. an increase of $52.8k. Of course, it is lower than the above mentioned “value appreciation”.

“#1 telling us the mortgage is a 5 year 2.99% is not enough information since we do not know the amortization period and hence cannot confirm the mortgage pay-down numbers.”

Based on $423,108 (forgetting taxes, etc), using the 2.99% 5-yr, 25 year amortization (because that’s the norm), and 20% down leaves us with a mortgage of $338.5k and a monthly payment of $1,603.38. The $1425.25 mortgage payment she has is for a 30-year mortgage (not the norm, and not recommended).

And the principal repayment starts at $581.85, not $600. It rises by $1.45 per month, therefore it won’t hit $600 until the start of the 14th month (i.e. 38.9% of the way through the proposed time horizon).

I don’t think I need to spell it out to you that these cash flow figures would look a heck of a lot worse under the $479.9 scenario, particularly as $2,350 is at the upper-end of the possible rental range (i.e. riskier, and therefore shouldn’t be used in modelling).

#73 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 11:00 pm

#71 Catalyst on 08.27.14 at 10:49 pm
“#45 Kenchie

http://economics.about.com/od/unemploymentrate/f/labor_force.htm

Are you kidding me? No shit sherlock. Hence I brought up people outside the 16-64 age group who are not (generally-speaking) included in the labour force.

When you say “At least she works for a living”, that implies she’s superior to the other 34% not in the labour force (i.e. not working for a living). Therefore you are comparing her to old people and kids. Congratulations on being an asshole.

#74 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 11:11 pm

#71 Catalyst on 08.27.14 at 10:49 pm

My mistake, I was thinking of labour force as percentage of total population, rather than participation rate.

Nevertheless, it’s still rude to say what you said and encourage intentional deceit by realtors (Spin those numbers girl!).

#75 Rocco Lallone on 08.27.14 at 11:22 pm

Friend of mine just bought a condo at Jane and highway 7. Down payment of $5K and get this, $1,000 a month for minimum 36 months or until the project is completed in 3 years! Doesn’t pass the smell test for me.

#76 Debra on 08.27.14 at 11:24 pm

Why is Nancy getting picked on here. All she is doing is helping people build a life!! She has done more for helping people get into their home of their dreams than likely any of you have. She has not made up one of those numbers!! I think you all should go back to your trailer parks and leave the successful people alone. How many 31 year olds drive a Mercedes, live in a penthouse and attend the top party’s in the city. Probable only ONE!! Nancy! You are all jealous. Call her, she’ll gladly help you buy your dream home and you can thank her later!!

#77 Nemesis on 08.27.14 at 11:27 pm

“Stick to poultry.” — Garth

You do realize that, once upon a time… in a moment of dire need… I was reduced to providing a CoverIllustration for “PoultryMan” magazine.

Strictly speaking, there are but few things you can do with – visually – a Farmer holding a chicken that are likely to captivate and hold the attention of NationalAudiences.

In the end… I’d like to think that I succeeded. I still feel very badly about the chicken, though…

Unlike this former DCI:

http://youtu.be/X2UAuFArbOY

#78 TurnerNation on 08.27.14 at 11:48 pm

Two words: E&O Insurance?

#79 A Yank in BC on 08.27.14 at 11:48 pm

Dear Nance,

You are perhaps a bit better looking than Warren Buffett, but you don’t possess even one ten-thousandth of his business and investing acumen. I think I’ll pass on the deal and stick with Warren’s way. He’s now cashing-in on your morning double-double. But thanks anyway doll.

#80 Debtfree on 08.27.14 at 11:49 pm

Unreal estate . Reminds me of a birthday that I received a deed for a one acre lot on earths moon . Still have it . Will sell cheap . I think it cost about twenty bucks twenty years ago . So I’m thinking a half a mill .
Also could you dogs leave smokingman alone , while he’s painting his master piece . Hemingway was also pissed the whole time and look how well he did . Except the dying bit of coarse .

#81 TurnerNation on 08.27.14 at 11:51 pm

The logo on her shirt appears like it’s giving the finger.

I already have a brunette Realtress thanks.
Scorp. like me. Deadly combo.

#82 Dave on 08.28.14 at 12:09 am

A fool and their money are soon parted.

#83 West Coast on 08.28.14 at 12:11 am

“Why Canada isn’t immune to a U.S.-style housing crash”
A new report warns that Canadian home prices could fall 30 per cent in the next five years – Macleans
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/realestateeconomy/why-canada-isnt-immune-to-a-u-s-style-housing-crash/
One major national publication that is not afraid to call it as they see it. Have fun with the quiz – can you tell if the quote is by an official in the U.S. in 2006 or Canada in 2014?

#84 bobdog on 08.28.14 at 12:30 am

Two words…

Debtor prison.

That is all.

#85 sideline sitter on 08.28.14 at 12:32 am

Anyone else think her logo looks like it’s giving us the finger?

Kinda makes sense

#86 Fed-up on 08.28.14 at 12:32 am

@#54 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 9:34 pm
_______________________________________________________

I rent an entire town home in Beaches for less than $1800 per month. There is a staggering selection at $2350 per month that is only going grow with glut of more sky boxes and I wiil guarantee that a sucker err buyer will get nowhere near that rent for these piles of crap once (if) they’re built.

#87 van guy on 08.28.14 at 12:37 am

Wow, hot chicks can suck guys into anything. I bet her looks sold many units in the past

#88 van guy on 08.28.14 at 12:38 am

Good vid on Canadian RE.

http://www.bnn.ca/Video/player.aspx?vid=399582

#89 Dee on 08.28.14 at 1:02 am

I pay $1700/month rent for a -house- in super-trendy Leslieville. Love, love my landlord-subsidized rent.

And when this neighbourhood inevitably collapses, I can just leave.

Good luck doing that owning a condo in CityPlace once the shine wears off those Concord copy-paste buildings…

#90 young & foolish on 08.28.14 at 1:07 am

Why is Real Estate a different kind of investment? Simple … because everybody needs it (like food and energy). You can shun equities, but not a roof over your head.

Property in cities where population growth is positive and job creation is strong remains in demand for obvious reasons. Will it always be so? Not necessarily, but there are no guarantees with any investment (Blackberry, Nortel, etc).

If you own a well located rental property with a 5% cap rate would you think of selling it if it’s value dropped by 15%? Would you sell your dividend paying bank shares if they slid down in value? Are you not thinking cash flow?

Oh, and about prices always going up … who really expects prices on anything you need to go down? For laptops maybe, but for staples?

#91 NEVER GIVE UP on 08.28.14 at 1:21 am

It is high time for the Gov. to step in with strong regulations.
The Real estate Boards have had their chance to show leadership and to train their Pit Bull Salespeople but to no avail.
Break it wide open and let innovators in.
Enough of our corrupt Real Estate Boards, Egg Marketing Boards, Dairy Boards, All self serving. When will our Government quit throwing their citizens under the bus?

#92 juno on 08.28.14 at 1:53 am

She’s not good, she’s un-regulated!

It shows you how out of control CREA is. Have you ever seen a Stock Broker or financial institute come out with jargon like that. Without getting huge fines

#93 Why oh why on 08.28.14 at 2:36 am

This thing will just not crash and burn, glad I’m renting and staying mobile. It’s what you need to do in today’s job market. Toronto has almost 10% unemployment so it is not without risk working in this job market.

#94 nubbers on 08.28.14 at 3:53 am

I’m curious. In the example above, a condo ‘worth’ 479,900 is purchased with a cash back deal such that the buyer really only pays 423,108. What appears in future statistics as the sale price – the higher or lower amount?

#95 Nemesis on 08.28.14 at 4:02 am

#JustForFun. #ThursdayTrax… #OnceUponATimeInTheWest.

http://youtu.be/tO7Tacda2WU

#96 Lolo on 08.28.14 at 4:05 am

Maybe I just got lucky, but I’ve bought 3 condos in my life in the past 15 years, all pre-construction, and was happy with all of them. I did my due diligence on the developers, became very adept at reading floor plans, read up on condo laws, had a lawyer read the contracts before I signed, and did my own number crunching on what I could afford. I bought them for my own use, not as an investment, though I did end up renting two of them out at various points in time, to great tenants.

#97 Munch on 08.28.14 at 5:14 am

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, so if I marry this poptart do I get Canadian citizenship?

She looks like one of those “happy’ types, easy to impress.

#98 Detalumis on 08.28.14 at 5:33 am

I don’t get the sex-sells pitch either. Apparently in Toronto many condos are bought by young women like Erin Bury. Would Erin want to bring her boyfriend with her and have Nancy show up in her cheerleader outfit especially when he hasn’t popped the question yet, she is getting broody and time is a-ticking. At 35 women are told they are “a geriatric pregnancy”. It’s similar to not hiring a Swedish au-pair to be your nanny, self-preservation. The Brampton people have it right, they will post right in their Kijiji ad “old lady wanted to help cook Indian dishes for pregnant wife, will pick up non-driver”, no having to read between the lines.

Of course the whole goal of Nancy’s business plan may not be to actually sell condos but to meet somebody in the process so she doesn’t have to sell condos for a living. I mean if I were her and business minded my goal would be to be like Heather Reisman and find myself a Gerry Schwartz that will buy me whole companies to play with.

#99 betamax on 08.28.14 at 5:57 am

Garth: “Selling condos is the ultimate in eat-what-you-kill, commission-driven salesmanship.”

The condo pimps I’ve seen in Vancouver are invariably nothing but order takers and form fillers. They hand you a flyer, point to the granite and stainless in the display suite, then ignore you until you throw money at them.

#100 bigrider on 08.28.14 at 6:57 am

#98 Detalumis-

A very chauvinistic post for sure, but also very true.

#101 Italians love real estate on 08.28.14 at 8:10 am

Stock markets are way overdue for a significant “correction” by the way.

Everyone agrees, and a 15% decline would be in order. Unlike such a plop in real estate values, which could take several years to recover, an equity market drop will likely be reversed in weeks. Additionally, investors can exit with a mouse click,. Try doing that with a backsplit. — Garth

#102 Dominique from Ottawa on 08.28.14 at 8:19 am

Can anyone tell me what “scraping” is and why mls would be blocking my access to their site accusing me of scraping!? I took a screenshot…my mind is blown! I check mls semi regularly for fun… thats it.

#103 Hot Albertan Money on 08.28.14 at 8:29 am

This woman is the ex-wife of my dreams

#104 jess on 08.28.14 at 8:33 am

…. further up the food chain

The Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program (TLGP) is a program adopted by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) on October 13, 2008 during the global financial crisis of 2008 to encourage liquidity in the interbank lending market.

personal fiefdom
Massive Bank Fraud Premier Bank Press Statement
TuesdayAugust 6, 2013
Remarks Regarding the Indictment of Former Premier Bank Senior Executives and Members of the Board of Directors
Massive Bank Fraud Conspiracy and Criminal Enterprise Led to theCollapse of the Illinois TARP Bank
http://www.sigtarp.gov/Statements/Romero_Remarks_on_Premier_Bank_Charges.pdf

http://oig.federalreserve.gov/releases/news-bankers-attorney-sentenced-aug2014.pdf

construction loans?
FBI — Florida Bank Executives and Attorney Charged with …
http://www.fbi.gov › Jacksonville › Press Releases › 2013
Aug 7, 2013 – The TLGP was created at the height of the 2008 financial crisis in order … Coastal used the proceeds of the TLGP Loan to repay the RBC Loan

#105 Polozified on 08.28.14 at 8:41 am

DELETED

#106 jess on 08.28.14 at 8:45 am

CHICAGO—A Chicago man who purported to be building a $912 million hotel and convention center complex near O’Hare International Airport was indicted today on federal charges for allegedly exploiting a U.S. visa program to fraudulently raise approximately $160 million from some 290 Chinese nationals who invested in the project while seeking U.S. residency.

Chicago Man Allegedly Exploited U.S. Visa Program to Defraud Chinese Investors of $160 Million in Purported O’Hare Complex
http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-releases/2014/chicago-man-allegedly-exploited-u.s.-visa-program-to-defraud-chinese-investors-of-160-million-in-purported-ohare-complex

#107 Kenchie on 08.28.14 at 9:02 am

@#54 Kenchie on 08.27.14 at 9:34 pm
_______________________________________________________

“I rent an entire town home in Beaches for less than $1800 per month. There is a staggering selection at $2350 per month that is only going grow with glut of more sky boxes and I wiil guarantee that a sucker err buyer will get nowhere near that rent for these piles of crap once (if) they’re built.”

Couple of questions:

1) how long have you stayed there? 2) is it rent-controlled? 3) how many blocks east of Parliament are you? 4) are you a DINK (double-income no kids)? 5) how many comparables are in your neighbourhood that are up for rent at any given time (Ex: available on Sept)? 6) do you have a car? 7) have you done research on realtor.ca (add a discount of up to 5%) for those areas I mentioned for 2 bed condos? 8) if the owner of your place kicked you out and then re-rented the house, what would it get in rent per month?

#108 Dupcheck on 08.28.14 at 9:02 am

So how do we bring these lying RE agents to accountability?

We know what they are doing is wrong and it has deep consequences to the people they are trapping in and the housing bubble they are creating.

Why does the Government and the banks close an eye on these methods?

This has to end as it is fraud. There must be laws about fraud that we can use against them!

So what can we do?

#109 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.28.14 at 9:03 am

I think Debra #76 is Nancy. Nancy likes physical fitness a lot but she doesn’t like school much.

https://www.resume.com/nancytaza

#110 Polozified on 08.28.14 at 9:05 am

#102 Can anyone tell me what “scraping” is and why mls would be blocking my access to their site accusing me of scraping!? I took a screenshot…my mind is blown! I check mls semi regularly for fun… thats it.
______________
CREA thinks you are getting too much information for your own good and has blocked that information for your safety.

Carry on citizen.

#111 Kenchie on 08.28.14 at 9:05 am

#86 Fed-up on 08.28.14 at 12:32 am

In other words, are you the “rule or the exception to the rule”.

I don’t disagree that the rents DT will go down as more supply comes online. Your situation is irrelevant for most people because it’s not replicable on a large scale.

#112 jess on 08.28.14 at 9:05 am

“Control fraud occurs when a trusted person in a high position of responsibility in a company, corporation, or state subverts the organization and engages in extensive fraud for personal gain. The term Control fraud was coined by William K. Black to refer both to the acts of fraud and to the individuals who commit them.
Mr.Black was litigation director of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, deputy director of the FSLIC, SVP and General Counsel of the Federal Home Loan Bank of San Francisco, and Senior Deputy Chief Counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision. He was deputy director of the National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement.”

Black developed the concept of “control fraud”–-frauds in which the CEO or head of state uses the entity as a “weapon.” Control frauds cause greater financial losses than all other forms of property crime combined and kill and maim thousands. He recently helped the World Bank develop anti-corruption initiatives and served as an expert for OFHEO in its enforcement action against Fannie Mae’s former senior management.

William K. Black on Financial Fraud
Posted on February 7, 2012
Black explains how bank executives can use fraudulent loans to inflate the size of their bank in order to justify large compensation packages. He argues that “liar loans” were a major part of the crisis and that policy changes made it easy to generate such loans without criminal repercussions.
http://www.google.com/reader/ui/3523697345-audio-player.swf

#113 Ray Skunk on 08.28.14 at 9:07 am

#76

You can’t really be a friend/family member/Nancy herself.

Too obvious.

Must be a blog dog trolling.

#114 Dupcheck on 08.28.14 at 9:08 am

Here is what screen scraping means: A monopoly of manipulated data. Right from their terms of use. What a “Fraud”.

http://www.realtor.ca/Disclaimer.aspx

“The prohibited uses include “screen scraping”, “database scraping” and any other activity intended to collect, store, reorganize or manipulate data on the pages produced by, or displayed on the CREA websites.”

#115 Jimbo on 08.28.14 at 9:20 am

Council approved 7000 more condo units for hog town. Yipeee!!!

There is no absence of stupid at the ship’s helm in this city.

#116 Mike in Toronto on 08.28.14 at 9:25 am

#52 Kenchie

I pay $1150 for a large 1br near Jarvis and Carlton. Including underground parking. A few years ago I lived around the corner in a jr 1br for $1100. I moved because I needed the extra space and didn’t need the gym or swimming pool.

Recently when travelling Europe, I sublet my unit, furnished for $1300/mo. Got lucky with great tenants too.

There are lots of condos nearby, like RadioCity, the Verve, etc. etc. A 1 bedroom studio basement unit on Jarvis, next to the building’s garbage bin… where people let their dogs urinate, sold for >$300k. It was only on the market for a week.

People can ask anything for rent. It doesn’t mean they’re getting it, and it doesn’t mean the people paying it have a clue.

#117 Funny that on 08.28.14 at 9:26 am

#135 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 08.27.14 at 1:57 pm

A Dream Within a Dream
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
incredible song by Propaganda, check it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXZyTx4TzLg

#118 earlybird on 08.28.14 at 9:28 am

1 month without a renter….or a small fix would wipe out your profit for the year…a little too risky for the reward.

#119 X on 08.28.14 at 9:34 am

It is a shame the RE board is either unwilling, or incapable to regulate their own industry.

Which is why the gov’t really should do more to protect the public in this regard. That is the govt responsibility to ensure the public is protected.

Many professions have rules and regulations regarding how they can and cannot advertise. Not just the finance community either.

It is also a shame that Tarion has such ridiculous rules, that only cover some buyers/home owners. Developers should have to legally accept the limit tarion covers, or should have to legally ensure the deposited money is secure until the time of occupancy.

#120 Funny that on 08.28.14 at 9:35 am

DELETED

#121 DM in C on 08.28.14 at 10:03 am

#76 – -Debra …… or is it Nancy?

Oh Debra, I think that Garth has proven that the numbers are fantasy — just because she (you) believe them doesn’t make them real — or true.

As to leaving successful people alone -snerk – just cause she sells condos and drives a leased Mercedes? HAHAHA. Perhaps you should check the stats for commentators and readers of this site. The 1% live here, and she was just exposed to all of us.

And it’s parties, plural of partys.

#122 math on 08.28.14 at 10:27 am

The math in the article reminded me of my professor. Needless to say, the math is totally wrong. It should read:

Return on Investment after 3 years of possession:

– Exclusive savings from the builder price: $56,792
– Value Appreciation: (based on 4% year) $76,784
– Rental Income: $6,516
– Mortgage principal paid by tenant: $21,600
– 3 years of membership fee to the home owner exclusive club : $125,000
– 3 years of nag free from friends and family: $125, 000
– minus opportunity cost of $15,000

Net is $396,692
Return on investment in 3 years is more than 400%.

My 4 years old son may believe my math :-)

#123 lee on 08.28.14 at 10:27 am

Garth,

Why do you believe stock markets. Recover so quickly? It took the Tse three years to recover from 2003. It’s taken two to recover from 2012. A person had to bank on waiting up to five years for a full recovery in a pull back.

So, don’t buy stocks. Be balanced and diversified. — Garth

#124 Daisy Mae on 08.28.14 at 10:39 am

#37 Robert: “My first real estate agent was absolutely useless – they messed up on a fee for a copy of a condo report and I had funds stuck in escrow for 2 months.”

********************

Problem exists all over — idiots abound. A tourist agency quoted us Canadian prices for a cruise. Drew the contract up on USA documents. We were charged the exchange rate twice. I reported this incident to BBB…but their job is only to mediate. We lost $450 each.

#125 Tony on 08.28.14 at 10:42 am

Re: #94 nubbers on 08.28.14 at 3:53 am

The exact same condo in America would sell for less than 50 thousand dollars. That’s if you can even find a condo that small.

#126 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.28.14 at 10:45 am

Odd, all of Nancy’s agents are listed as agents for this company.There is surprisingly little information on her. I’m sure everything is above board though. I trust Nancy.

http://www.cityscapeone.com/agent_find&brokerID=277&brokerID_additional=525

#127 bill on 08.28.14 at 10:48 am

#76 Debra on 08.27.14 at 11:24 pm
are you related to Frank Zappa’s ‘Debby’? Arbitrator of the current brand of ‘pop’ music.
” california has the most of them” but there is bound to be one in Toronto.
it certainly would explain a few things…

http://otg.brainiac.com/fzfull.htm

#128 Shawn on 08.28.14 at 10:52 am

Egged On

Egg at 58 said:

you do not subtract an opportunity cost. that is in fact voodoo accounting.

******************************************
Absolutely correct, there is no need to subtract opportunity cost to show a return.

The problems in the projected $161, 692 return in three years are many.

Not subtracting opportunity cost is not one of the problems.

If it were one would say a 5% pref return from say Royal Bank would need to have subtracted from it the opportunity cost of the alternative of say investing in bank of Nova Scotia. Which is nonsense for most purposes.

It is implicit that one judges the 5% or the $161,692 against other investments. But there is no need to subtract it.

There is much to legitimately attack here without bringing up opportunity cost which is implicit (and seldom explicit) in every investment.

#129 Kenchie on 08.28.14 at 11:04 am

#116 Mike in Toronto on 08.28.14 at 9:25 am
#52 Kenchie

“I pay $1150 for a large 1br near Jarvis and Carlton. Including underground parking. A few years ago I lived around the corner in a jr 1br for $1100. I moved because I needed the extra space and didn’t need the gym or swimming pool.”

A) I said some streets are exceptions (Jarvis is one in particular). B) how new is this building you live in? C) is it rent controlled? D) clearly, it doesn’t sound like it’s in the same league as a new condo building that catches higher rents (absolute and psf basis). It’s cost to the owner is probably at a lower basis than a new development. E) Are the majority of the tenants YUPpies?

As with the theme of my above post: are you the rule or the exception to the rule? One person here or there doesn’t make a market.

By all means, I agree that rents are negotiable and too many ppl will pay the listed price (hence I said use a 5% discount on realtor.ca listings).

#130 bill on 08.28.14 at 11:18 am

the above eloquence is fondly dedicated to my uncle nosty snugglebuns….
dance instructor extraordinaire!

#131 Rexx Rock on 08.28.14 at 11:40 am

Canada sucks when it comes to the high cost of living in a Siberian enviroment.I met a retired guy from Seattle who rents out his condo for $2200 a month and lives in Puerto Vallarta and has the same size condo but oceanfront for $650 a month.He says it was a no brainer and loves it there and says he actually saves money living there all year round.
It all goes to show that Canada is a big rip off and it will end badly .Debt serfs is what being a Canadian is all about.

#132 pravchaw on 08.28.14 at 11:46 am

I am considering an investment in Morgaurd Northamerican REIT. Its diversified REIT paying 5.64% dividend and own residential property throughout Canada and the US, selling for below tangible book value. If I invest 90K in MRG.UN (leverage it 5 times to 400K) and assume 4% appreciation over 4 years my return on dividend alone over 4 years in $101K, now add capital appreciation of 4% x 4 years = 64K. A total of return of $165K. I don’t have to hunt for a tenant, I don’t worry about maintenance, I own a diversified portfolio. What is the problem? No one is going to loan me $310K to buy a REIT stock. Obviously the banks and the government have distorted the real estate industry by mortgage insurance.

#133 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 08.28.14 at 11:55 am

#117 Funny that on 08.28.14 at 9:26 am
#135 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 08.27.14 at 1:57 pm
A Dream Within a Dream
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
incredible song by Propaganda, check it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXZyTx4TzLg
____________________________________________

Reminds me of Jean Michel Jarre,
Smoking Man are you getting this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8dqzTl0vUI

#134 dosouth on 08.28.14 at 12:02 pm

New fridge today, new stove last month….this renting thing is not a bad gig.

#135 Bby on 08.28.14 at 12:10 pm

Buy equities , this bull market is going higher, there has been lots of talk of correction and people have lots of cash on the sidelines, we have not hit market euphoria yet and there’s no telling how high we can go , there’s lotsa skepticism in the market media so I think this correction is already priced in, good numbers outta the states again today !

#136 High Plains Drifter on 08.28.14 at 12:16 pm

The last prebuilt condo I bought turned out to be the answer to my problems. We had a rather good condo that had turned out to be a money winner but how to get the profit? Over the wife’s dead body and that was not happening. I scraped up the 10% of purchase price for the prebuilt and turned the new condo into an extended shopping spree for the wife. The main obstacle was busy using her taste and the 1st condo’s profit on hickory and granite. The funny thing is I was viewing the whole deal as a “hail Mary” knowing the house market needed to behave itself for the 30 months the deal took to complete. On the 31st month the local market got a case of the strangles and dropped 25% overnight but I had got away with the gambit. Plus, we were near enough to a new 3% lower rate regime that our monthly came down a couple of hundred. That is why 08, 08, 08 will always be my 3rd favourite day.

#137 Thedude on 08.28.14 at 12:26 pm

We sold our house recently and the realtors were useless. We bought our new house with no realtor (long story, worked out great!). I can’t believe the amount of equity they received from us……I did the same job myself without ‘special schooling and licensing’ when we bought our new house, and I can tell you – they maybe earned, at say 30 bucks an hour for a stab-in-the-dark, overly fair guess of wages, 150 bucks. The most work they did, in all seriousness, was trying to get me to sign on the dotted line. All they cared about was protecting themselves and drooling/fawning/salivating at the contract. Before I even signed it, and mentioned that I’d like to try their brokerage, before I called another one, the agent blurted out, “You just gave a verbal contract. That is as good as a written contract to the courts!” They are the used car salespeople of the realty world. Shameless.

#138 Bottoms_Up on 08.28.14 at 12:44 pm

#76 Debra on 08.27.14 at 11:24 pm
————————————-
Yes, yes she has made up most of those numbers.

There’s a difference between Speculation and FACT.

Show us one actual, real life example where a renter is paying $2350 for a similar unit in that area, where the condo has appreciated 4% year over year, and where one has recently sold for $480,000.

#139 Bottoms_Up on 08.28.14 at 12:47 pm

#102 Dominique from Ottawa on 08.28.14 at 8:19 am
———————————————
Yes, sounds like they don’t want you accumulating data over a prolonged period of time.

Doing so would allow you to expose their lies (number of listings over time, number of times the same house has been relisted etc.).

#140 coastal on 08.28.14 at 12:50 pm

Had to laugh at the local Victoria agent on Facebook defending the use of drones that are flying around apartment blocks spying on people. He even tries to make the case that the cameras aren’t good enough for perverts to see anything worthwhile. I have to ask the question, did he test it out ?

On top of that he claimed a pervert would be more well served spending the $2000 on porn ! You can’t make this shit up ! Desperation by the industry for anyway to scrape a dollar for his pocket. I now know who NOT to call when I want to buy.

#141 Keith on 08.28.14 at 12:53 pm

Garth,

What makes me angry as a 34 year old engineer is seeing people like this make money hand over fist while Bombardier pays aerospace engineers starting salaries that in the high 40s to live and work in Toronto.

Apparently, making a career out of lying, with some display of ample bosom can have you “driving a Mercedes, living in a penthouse and attending the top parties in town” at 31. But if you actually decide to be a highly skilled and educated professional, you’ll be living in your momma’s basement at that age (true for several Bombardier engineers I know).

This is why Canada is such a backwater. In Silicon Valley, the geeks get the hot babes, drive the nice cars and go to the hot parties. In Toronto, realtors and “investment advisors” (mutual fund hawkers), skim off commissions and live the high life from all those productive members of society.

Have you ever forwarded these emails to the OSC and OSFI? I would love to know why they haven’t called for regulations for such advertising. Are they actually aware of advertising like this?

#142 Nomad on 08.28.14 at 12:55 pm

“Ignored was the opportunity cost of the $90,000 down payment, which invested at 7%”

Here’s the problem: Most want nothing to do with investing. It’s sad. This is becoming more clear as I talk to new employees at my work. I invest all the money I make.

This fact tilts the calculation in favor of buying real-estate.

Until people invest, realtors will have an easy time winning people over.

#143 Nomad on 08.28.14 at 1:05 pm

Larry Berman (ETF Capital) says:

“The aging demographic trend likely keeps that in place for the next 20-30 years. It just means the world grows at 2% plus not the 4% plus that was the boom cycle of the 80s and 90s. Eventually, earnings growth of 11% that is currently in the forecast gets cut in half (or more).”

There’s also Bill Gross at PIMCO who forecasts a low-growth world.

I’ll keep investing, but I could see how my stocks start to return less than that 7% historical average. If that happens, realtors will have even more ammunition.

#144 devore on 08.28.14 at 1:13 pm

#90 young & foolish

Oh, and about prices always going up … who really expects prices on anything you need to go down? For laptops maybe, but for staples?

If people were getting mortgages to buy groceries, and leveraging up 20:1 to do so, then taking 25 years to pay off dinner, you might have a point. Houses are largely bought with borrowed money, therefore the value of houses is very sensitive to interest rates and availability of credit. As such, it goes down as much as it goes up.

In any case, who breaks out the champagne when the price of their food goes up? Your comparison is pointless.

#145 Italians love real estate on 08.28.14 at 1:21 pm

Stock markets are way overdue for a significant “correction” by the way.

Everyone agrees, and a 15% decline would be in order. Unlike such a plop in real estate values, which could take several years to recover, an equity market drop will likely be reversed in weeks. Additionally, investors can exit with a mouse click,. Try doing that with a backsplit. — Garth

Say what you will Garth but that 15% plop in RE values you speak of still has to one to fruition. I say it will not happen.

As for equity market decline we all seem to anticipate , human nature being what it is , most will suffer from it to a the greater liquidity you speak of , for example selling at the bottom.

The lack of liquidity you speak of for RE is actually a blessing for the dumb and in initiated. Helps them from being their own worst enemies.

Imagine a world where portfolio valuation was not available second by second and selling if financial assets were not so easy. Imagine a world where no one could see the value of their financial assets until they were selling, much like RE.

Then and only then would I believe that Financial assets could compete with RE for the masses

#146 Smoking Man on 08.28.14 at 1:25 pm

#67 will on 08.27.14 at 10:19 pmto smoking man #17. hey smoking man are you going to tell us the title of this book? you’ve been talking about it for long enough. why not come out of your closet and let the blog dogs do some marketing for your opus? whatsamatter? we’re all with ya. let’s breathe some life into this opus or yours. get it outta the closet. that’s my recommendation. stop being so
mysterious. whats the title? who are you?

Stop encouraging him. — Garth.
…….

This post from WiFi at 32 ft.

To answer your question.

I’m a nobody, and like to keep it that way.
I’m also a perfectionists, takes me a week to read the book. Every pass, I get a better idea about something and make changes.

I’m only a one book man so it’s got to be right.

As far as title, haven’t got on yet. Here are a few I’m thinking about.

Smoking Man’s shit book.
Stoned Aliens in Vegas.
4 amigos.
My ships faster than yours.
Just try and pull me over cop.

#147 D on 08.28.14 at 1:41 pm

In this case the $21600 from principal repayment would be a return on investment (when sold) because the $600 per month repayment was previously considered as an obligation in the ‘total monthly obligation’ which was subtracted from rents collected.
However I’d ignore the 4% appreciation and the ‘discount’.
So the return on $90k investment would be $28116 over the 3 years (about 9.5%) – if rent were realistic and there were no vacant months.
Also, in order to sell and get the principal back out there would be fees to consider which would drastically reduce the return.

#148 Rational Optimist on 08.28.14 at 2:04 pm

Devore’s post at #56 gets post of the week, hands down. Wonderfully simple, simply wonderful.

#149 elrowe on 08.28.14 at 2:09 pm

More appalling to me than her math skills is how she advertises her business by pointing at her t**s.

Yeah, I know, sex sells. But in other industries, and I’d suggest even realty sales up until lately, it wouldn’t be considered the least bit professional.

A sign of desperation?

#150 Nomad on 08.28.14 at 2:17 pm

Meanwhile, in the US:

“Boomer Wealth Dented by Mortgages Poses U.S. Risk” (Bloomberg)

News are always over-alarmist, so who knows if this is really a wide-spread problem. Could be. Worth reading since it could apply to our boomers.

#151 wHatEver on 08.28.14 at 2:22 pm

Two bedroom condo rents for $2350 ??? In who’s wild fantasy?? Lucky if you get $1250/mo out of it.

#152 liquidincalgary on 08.28.14 at 2:37 pm

@ #77 Nemisis

says:
You do realize that, once upon a time… in a moment of dire need… I was reduced to providing a CoverIllustration for “PoultryMan” magazine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

did this situation have anything to do with your legs??

#153 armpit on 08.28.14 at 2:48 pm

I sense within two years the other shoe will drop. Real estate, stocks, and bonds simultaneously will have a major correction. One that we have never seen before.

#154 devore on 08.28.14 at 2:54 pm

Well, for rental properties you either count rent as your return (after subtracting debt service/interest, leaving principal repayment), or you take a shortcut and just look at the principal paydown. Either way you get the same number.

Many amateur real estate investors are perfectly happy if the rent just covers the expenses (interest, taxes, fees, maintenance), and pay down the principal out of pocket. Doesn’t make a great professional investment, but from their perspective it is a safe way to build equity in an appreciating asset.

#155 M on 08.28.14 at 2:55 pm

#144 Smoking Man

I’d go with “My ship is faster than yours ” any time mon chere

:)

#156 James Attner on 08.28.14 at 3:01 pm

Hi,

I leased my current condo with Nancy Taza. Firstly, she does not look like the posted picture which is ten years old and she has curly short hair but is still pretty (and flirty).

She pushed the idea of buying a condo but once I made it clear that I was looking to lease, she stopped pushing. She was a very good real estate agent and showed lots of patience (and 10+ units). She found me a great rental unit at a great price.

I agree that her math on new-builds stinks but all of her competitors are the same.

If you want a good agent for either a rental or purchase, she knows the downtown market very well and did a great job negotiating on my behalf.

#157 Gainsaywhodare on 08.28.14 at 3:09 pm

I did a double take when I saw the “Exclusive savings from the builder price: $56,792” in the ROI calculation. Obviously there are people who specialize in voodoo accounting. The sadder part is, some people are actually gullible enough to believe the basis of that calculation. It is no wonder we are a debt nation. People don’t even understand basic things about personal finances.

#158 Lurcher on 08.28.14 at 3:12 pm

Surrey BC Real Estate firm shut down by regulators:

http://www.news1130.com/2014/08/28/surrey-real-estate-firm-shut-down/

#159 JG on 08.28.14 at 3:22 pm

Re: Nancy

but she loves puppies! How can anyone who loves puppies be bad!

http://websta.me/p/789336810680095517_253173715

#160 Mark on 08.28.14 at 3:27 pm

“This is why Canada is such a backwater. In Silicon Valley, the geeks get the hot babes, drive the nice cars and go to the hot parties.

Not true at all. Geeks in the Silicon Valley have a hard time finding jobs for the most part, and the Silicon Valley is mostly devoid of US citizens (or Canadians) under the age of 35. But the rest of your comments about engineers are spot-on. Engineering salaries seem to be stuck at levels of a few decades ago, while even mere secretaries and clerks often, in engineering firms and utilities, earn just as much, if not more.

#161 Son of Ponzi on 08.28.14 at 3:30 pm

Smoking Man,
Why don’t you just compile an Anthology of your classic posts on this pathetic blog.
And publish it, already.

#162 saskatoon on 08.28.14 at 3:31 pm

high hilarity:

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/cbc-news/mortgage-rate-drop-means-housing-more-affordable-this-spring-1

to summarize: housing has become more “affordable” because mortgage rates have dropped.

#163 :):(Ying Yang on 08.28.14 at 3:39 pm

#144 Smoking Man on 08.28.14 at 1:25 pm

Going with Smoking Mans Shit!
Make it a number 1 not a number 2. Mayby I got that wrong it need to be a number 2.
At Seneca tonight and Friday, will be at Stir Bar with
girlfreind and her cohorts. Holy shit this is going to cost me every time comes I pay.

Good luck on book, will need a signed copy!

#164 :):(Ying Yang on 08.28.14 at 3:43 pm

Smoking Man for you!
Secret #1: Writing is Hard
Secret #2: We All Struggle With Procrastination
Secret #4: First Drafts are Always Crap
Secret #5: Each Piece Exists in a State of Flux – and it’s Never “Finished”
Secret #6: We Do it Because We’re Obsessed
Secret #7: Money Does Matter
Secret #8: We All Struggle With Self-Doubt

http://www.aliventures.com/8-writing-secrets

#165 LOL lurker on 08.28.14 at 4:09 pm

LOL I got a rental unit from Taza last month. FYI, here is what their team looks like. You’re welcome! ;)

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11256_708228769256122_6992246690796605705_n.jpg?oh=8b07e303c33ca66552781bdef9f6b4c2&oe=5466A0EF

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10509588_684135144998818_1735289143190122657_n.jpg?oh=81794b1359c79cf0393a0230fd8beabf&oe=5468ACAB&__gda__=1415820578_49e577af51a32c9896cf9e5f0987f366

#166 Bottoms_Up on 08.28.14 at 4:09 pm

#144 Smoking Man on 08.28.14 at 1:25 pm
———————————————
How about: “The Fastest Ship”.

And I’ll settle for 1% royalty payments.

#167 Oceanside on 08.28.14 at 4:18 pm

Admittedly we live in a smaller centre than Vancouver or Toronto, the realtors here are mostly middle age through to their 60’s and most have been in the community for a long time. Any high pressure/aggressive ones don’t do well here and just seem to disappear.

So many on this blog seem to have an axe to grind with all realtors but it is the same with any financial venture, you are the one responsible for your own financial well being. Greed is usually the motivator for people that get taken in by these big developers and their sales staff. “If it seems too good to be true”…………

#168 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 08.28.14 at 4:19 pm

Rob Ford on his way Toronto, say hello to your next new Mayor!

Cho out! Appears shes going down!

Tory still a mayby!

#169 Jumpin jack splash on 08.28.14 at 4:58 pm

Manipulation isn’t unique to the RE Market….in the case of ‘Global warming’…look how many suckers the manipulators have roped in. It turns out the people we thought we could trust were all just traitors and saboteurs for hire.

Who would have thought there was a manipulation going on behind the scenes that hoodwinked so many intelligent Canadians? Who knew that David Suzuki was taking money from the Rockefeller Foundation to produce negative propaganda against Canadian competitors. The traitors paymasters painted Canada as a bad operator…when all it was were the governments of Russia, China, Qatar and some very nasty Hedge Fund operators like Tom Steyer of Farallon Capital who wer trying to slow down Canada so they could continue to line their own pockets?

https://twitter.com/FairQuestions

Did you think that Leo Di Caprio or Neil Young are friendly open minded guys….No way…it turns out celebrities, film makers and those green groups with serious cute sounding names …with ‘rainforest and wind…and clean’….. have been taking money from The Tides Foundation….a very nasty back room operator working for anyone who pays…..not mention Big Coal and savage Islamic states who care less for the environment than they did for the last journalists head they cut off.

They secretly funnel the money into so called charities to file frivolous lawsuits against Canadian companies and the countries democratically elected government. Canada has been targeted as a competitor…..and we Canadian suckers have fallen for the spell of the manipulators.

Think green is good…looky here

http://www.cfact.org/2013/03/18/wind-turbines-kill-up-to-39-million-birds-a-year/

Want to see the facts behind the manipulation?

https://twitter.com/FairQuestions

Think solar is benign…think again.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/19/solar-plants-causing-birds-to-catch-on-fire-in-mid-flight/

So when you listen to the propaganda directed at ‘Climate Change’ ( the newest catch phrase’…..you’re also falling for the same BS from people who have a history of funding bloody revolutions in third world countries to get their way.

#170 Alberta Guy on 08.28.14 at 5:01 pm

what about selling costs? commish, land transfer tax etc?

#171 JSS on 08.28.14 at 5:12 pm

#139 Keith on 08.28.14 at 12:53 pm

If you’re an engineer, have you considered moving to Alberta. In Edmonton, they’re crying for engineers. Especially project manager types, which is what most engineers do. I think a fresh engineering grad with 0 years experience makes over $60K.

#172 Happy Renting on 08.28.14 at 5:53 pm

#140 Keith on 08.28.14 at 12:53 pm

Before you get too worked up over your complaint, I think you’re assuming a lot of things about our realtress that may not be true.

We don’t know what she makes, but her resume says she’s been working this racket for six years, so not entry level. Not comparable to other entry level salaries.

The merc is most likely leased and a company car. Not a sign of her professional success, but necessary window dressing in that line of business.

At any “hot parties” she is at, she is STAFF, not a guest. She provides the “hot babe” services to prospective clients (she’s going to flirt based on who has money to buy a skybox, not based on attractiveness. I dare say the unattractive ones may be an easier target, gorgeous people can get hot babes without having to buy anything and won’t be flattered by her attentions.) Parties are less hot when you’re there to work and provide enjoyment, not there to enjoy it yourself.

As Garth has pointed out before, the number of sales vs. the number of registered used house floggers in Toronto suggests some are starving.

Sounds pretty sexy to me.

#173 Ronaldo on 08.28.14 at 6:33 pm

#170 -JSS

”I think a fresh engineering grad with 0 years experience makes over $60K.”

I believe you will find that a labourer with the city makes almost that much.

#174 Fed-up on 08.28.14 at 6:39 pm

#111 Kenchie on 08.28.14 at 9:05 am

#86 Fed-up on 08.28.14 at 12:32 am

In other words, are you the “rule or the exception to the rule”.

I don’t disagree that the rents DT will go down as more supply comes online. Your situation is irrelevant for most people because it’s not replicable on a large scale.
———————————————————————–
Ok then…

What is relevant is to type in, “2 bedroom apartments within 10 km of City Hall” in the search box and over 1100 units pop up on Kajiji alone, many for far less than $2300. Show some flexibility to say a 15 km radius of City Hall and include 1 bedroom or 1 + 1 and that figure more than doubles.

Again, good luck finding a sucker to pay $2350 per month whenever these holes become available.

#175 Millenial on 08.28.14 at 7:08 pm

Hey Garth,
Canadian dollar’s been looking pretty strong past few days. I exchanged some money yesterday to try and take advantage. After the exchange place’s cut, I got 0.8989 US$ for every CAD$ I gave them. Not bad. Not great, but not bad.

#176 Daisy Mae on 08.28.14 at 8:09 pm

#148 Elrowe: “Yeah, I know, sex sells.”

****************

For as long as it takes to sign your life away?

#177 kenchie on 08.28.14 at 8:19 pm

#168 Jumpin jack splash on 08.28.14 at 4:58 pm

“Manipulation isn’t unique to the RE Market….in the case of ‘Global warming’…look how many suckers the manipulators have roped in. It turns out the people we thought we could trust were all just traitors and saboteurs for hire.”

Don’t believe the earth is getting warmer due to hydrocarbons?

Here’s a simple test you can do at home to see if car pollution heats up the earth. All you need is a garage, a car and a hand-held thermometer. First step is to ensure the garage is closed, so the experiment can be done in a controlled environment. Second step is to turn on the car’s gasoline engine. Third step is the watch the thermometer for 60 minutes to see if it gets warmer.

You might want to videotape yourself so there’s evidence that you watched it for 60 minutes. For all we know, you could lie and do it for 1-2 minutes and claim that it didn’t work.

PS: je suis la facetious.

#178 SWL1976 on 08.28.14 at 8:25 pm

#76 Debra

leave the successful people alone. How many 31 year olds drive a Mercedes, live in a penthouse and attend the top party’s in the city.

——————————————————-

Wow!!! I did not realize that this was the definition of successful

Very informative blog, always learning

#179 kenchie on 08.28.14 at 8:40 pm

#174 Fed-up on 08.28.14 at 6:39 pm

“What is relevant is to type in, “2 bedroom apartments within 10 km of City Hall” in the search box and over 1100 units pop up on Kajiji alone, many for far less than $2300. Show some flexibility to say a 15 km radius of City Hall and include 1 bedroom or 1 + 1 and that figure more than doubles.

Again, good luck finding a sucker to pay $2350 per month whenever these holes become available.”

To be fair, we are definitely not talking about the same quality of stuff. Yes, it’s true that you can get terrible places in terrible locations for a lot cheaper than $2350. I don’t dispute that.

But you don’t find many new places with lots of decent amenities and +900 sf for less than $2100 in downtown Toronto. As I mentioned above, the area I am talking about is not “within 10 km of city hall”, but rather between Bathurst and a few certain spots east of Yonge up to Parliament.

And like I said earlier, CityPlace rents range between $2.55 psf per calendar month (pcm) and $2.75 psf pcm. Other places, such as Bloor and Yonge, it’s wayyy more expensive on a psf basis.

For example:

http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14665383
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14767469
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14517734
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14578483
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14786874
http://beta.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14465822

It’s really not hard to find much more expensive condos than the one mentioned by Taza. Add a discount for the sake of negotiations, if you wish.

My point is that $2,350 is not that expensive. It sounds like a lot, but it’s not. And there certainly are cheaper options, but they are few and far between in the downtown area.

#180 Egg on 08.28.14 at 9:12 pm

Stick to poultry. — Garth

Sure ok. But one of us is a CFA and one of us isn’t. Smarmy git.

One of us need letters. One doesn’t. — Garth

#181 betamax on 08.28.14 at 9:34 pm

#76 Debra: “How many 31 year olds drive a Mercedes, live in a penthouse and attend the top party’s [sic] in the city.[sic] Probable [sic] only ONE!! Nancy!”

Well that settles it. Jeffrey Skilling should be exonerated.

#182 Kenchie on 08.28.14 at 10:01 pm

#179 Egg on 08.28.14 at 9:12 pm
“Stick to poultry. — Garth

Sure ok. But one of us is a CFA and one of us isn’t.”

Egg, as a charterholder (or candidate), you should know not to exaggerate the meaning or the implications of membership in the CFA program.

#183 Entrepreneur on 08.28.14 at 10:29 pm

Realtors will do anything to get the buyer to sign. Sweat and nice one minute then very business the next.
Don’t buy into it; turn around and RUN.

#184 Jumpin jack splash on 08.29.14 at 6:07 pm

Kenshie…I hope your not saying that climate fanatics should sit in an enclosed garage with the motor running for an hour….video taping their suicide….that’s not nice. You don’t have to gas misguided people…..otherwise all hell would break loose at Liberal Party headquarters.