This week Toronto cops arrested Meerai Cho and charged her with a slew of bad things, like defrauding dozens and dozens of families who trusted her. The 63-year-old was the ‘go-to’ solicitor for a large part of the city’s bustling Korean community, and now needs to explain her part in the loss of at least $12 million in condo deposits.
This blog took up the cause of these families some days ago, with the mainstream media piling on the next morning. Within three days there was a Law Society hearing to defrock Cho, and she was doing the perp walk into 32 Division. The Tarion home warranty people are besieged with claims, and you can bet there’ll be a class action suit coming out of this along with an RCMP investigation reaching all the way into Korea, where a fugitive developer is holed up.
At the heart of this is a condo/hotel complex in north Toronto that sold out in a blizzard of interest years ago. Since then the only shovel seen on the site was the one used to plant a sign. The Centrium development changed hands last year (at least once), left investors desperate for information and finally disintegrated in what looked more and more like a scam.
Cho was the lawyer of record for the Korean co-developer, and accepted millions in deposits from condo buyers. Once trouble started brewing she declared bankruptcy, with documents revealing she owed $13 million and had assets of less than $900,000. Cho also penned a statement saying, in error, she had released $12.1 million in deposits to the developer, who then absconded with them. Oops. Sorry.
Now the money’s gone, and Cho will be in court to face 75 charges on October the second for fraud, possession of property obtained through crime and breach of trust. Naturally, the Law Society has suspended the solicitor who, for years, has been a fixture in the Toronto condo scene.
The jilted condo buyers are largely SOL. The new home warranty program makes refunds of only $20,000 for a deal gone bad – restricted to when the developer is bankrupt or a contract is legally terminated. Not only did many buyers put down three times that amount, but the bankrupt here is the intermediary – the lawyer – and not the builder. So the buyers, 90% of whom are said to be Chinese-Canadian families, will have to push the Law Society for compensation, launch civil action, or learn something bitter about lusting after a pre-construction property.
Of course, there are lessons for every fool plopping down money for real estate that isn’t actually real. First, never buy a condo you can’t pee in. If it doesn’t exist, don’t do the deal. Developers have a myriad of ways (legal) to alter what you actually bought or grossly delay the delivery of it. You have no certainty over the level of finishings, the quality of construction, soundproofing between units or the durability of the window wall systems (please refer back to Misery Week for more). Worse, like Centrium, the whole project could collapse because financing dried up or the developer’s a weiner.
Does the Centrium-Cho disaster have anything to say about our real estate market in general?
Mais oui. At least 40% of all condo purchasers – according to the people who sell them – are first-time, amateur or naïve investors who plan on flipping the units or renting them out to lucky tenants. Often they’ve been reeled in by highly-misleading and largely-unregulated marketing promising them positive cash flow and guaranteed surges in the value of the unit. Or, as another recent blog post told you, by advertising materials masquerading as independent editorial opinion aimed squarely to suckering millennials.
There are over 105,000 new condo units in the Toronto pipeline at the moment, with ever-more streaming to market. At one point last year Toronto Hydro had 123 separate permits issued for electrifying condo tower-building cranes. In contrast, metro Miami (population 5.5 million) has 4,500 condo units under construction. In New York, with 9 million people, there are only 40 condo buildings currently rising. Either everyone in the world wants to live in the GTA, or we just drank all the bathwater.
I feel sorry for the families who blew up. However, I suspect none read this pathetic blog.
And what a recipe for heartache that is.
157 comments ↓
So this is what “Not Ending Well” looks like.
And immigration is down in Ontario, how can we expect people to move here with the cost of living and only part time jobs being created?
How do you release $12.1M in error?
Generation Jobless — Young & Unemployed : Canadian Documentary
http://totalinvestor.blogspot.ca/2014/08/generation-jobless-young-unemployed.html
Misery Week continues. yea
The saddest part of all these are some of the victims just wanted to buy a condo for their home, not fliping nor investing. They take double shift, borrow from family, or even borrow from line of credit.
My lord, things must be bad if the law society actually engages its discipline process.
Fear not, the law society typically refuses to refer cases for prosecution, citing whatever crap reason they can dredge up to exonerate the relevant malfeasors.
And indeed, why should she be prosecuted? The province allowed that piano player who ran the ponzi scheme (defrauding investors of 17 million) to get off scot free because the courts were ‘too backlogged’. By that same standard, this lady should walk.
4,500 in Miami ? Is that a typo?
Nope. And they’re worried about too much inventory. — Garth
The jilted condo buyers are largely SOL.
What does SOL mean/stand for?
hmmmmm Police, Law Society, Media
knee jerk reaction from everyone involved after the horse has bolted from the barn…….
I knew there was something fishy when they told me to make my cheque to “Brad J Kim” instead of “Brad J Lamb”!
Check out the top line in both of the following data tables from the Bank of Canada:
Latest household credit numbers in Canada (to the end of July 2014)
http://credit.bankofcanada.ca/householdcredit
Latest business credit numbers in Canada (to the end of July 2014)
http://credit.bankofcanada.ca/businesscredit
How will slowdown in China affect Vancouver RE?
http://vancouvercondoreport.ca/IMF.aspx#.U_z9iKN5mSP
Geez Garth buddy, did I read you right?
” First, never buy a condo you can’t pee in.”
And before that, of course, you are always telling your blog dogs “never to buy real estate with anyone you’re not sleeping with”
When it comes to real estate, you seem to have, how shall I say it, a bit of a urogenital fixation, Garth.
And after seeing all the posts by Smoking Man that you allow on this blog, I thought it was purely rectal.
Go figure.
There are certain eternal verities. Deal with it. — Garth
@ #8 cy: SOL is an acronym for S**t Out of Luck
I’ll bet these folks wish they had signed something with CREA OREA or TREB pre printed at the top. That’s right – for all the abuse given to real estate agents, there’s a lot of consumer protection in their pre printed forms, and in their brokers trust accounts.
If you want to see the best “SOL” from a movie, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHMQkSE9rMg
Great post Garth.
Once again highlights that ignorance is not bliss, it is extremely expensive. There is many financial vampires out there, so it is very important to learn how to handle money, or the vampires will handle it for you. Not everyone is honest, and I thank Garth for showing us not only the many scams being perpetrated, but also naming the scammers, fraudsters, liars, thieves, vampires, who are financially sucking the blood of their victims.
so early today – but great story …
$325k condo discounts in China!
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2014/08/cracks-in-chinas-strained-housing.html
#15 Shoulda used an agent on 08.26.14 at 5:31 pm
I’ll bet these folks wish they had signed something with CREA OREA or TREB pre printed at the top. That’s right – for all the abuse given to real estate agents, there’s a lot of consumer protection in their pre printed forms, and in their brokers trust accounts.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not sure if you wrote that seriously or a joke. Comparing a realtor to a lawyer is like comparing how your Aunt May pulled your tooth by tying binder twine to a door vs. having a dentist perform an extraction.
I wouldn’t trust the CREA, OREA or TREB to tell me if it was raining, let alone rely on their self-serving documents that spread misinformation and absolve themselves of all responsibility in the event that something goes sideways.
I’d rather trust the Ghostbusters.
China crash has begun. 25% off… just to get things started.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-falling-real-estate-prices-trigger-protests-clashes-2014-08-26
Caveat Emptor.
In any case, I don’t feel bad for the residential buyers, only the commercial buyers.
For the residential buyers, they will come out having lost less than if it was built and they closed on the property. Especially if they’re getting $20,000 in coverage.
#20 – except RE Brokers insurance is usually up to $100K in protection, and not $20K.
Garth,
Could the people who put money down for a condo take over the land to cover some cost ? Im sure the land alone is worth a lot.
#20 Van Isle Renter on 08.26.14 at 6:02 pm
I believe he was being serious and giving excellent advise. A busy real estate agent, like myself (with a million things to do in a day) can help you.
You can check me out on my new website that I bought cheap from a guy who had to rush back to Korea for some reason. byi’mgone.con for all of your condo buying needs.
If these people only lost 60K, in 5 – 10 years time, they might find that they were the lucky ones.
#21 whatever
China crash has begun. 25% off… just to get things started.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-falling-real-estate-prices-trigger-protests-clashes-2014-08-26
I remember reading about Chinese investors involved in some kind of shadow banking investment fund that went belly up… they protested and demanded their money back from the government. I bet these protestors will do the same.
China’s credit bubble is staggering. When you look at the naivety of the average investor there, you quickly realize how it came to be.
When that mother blows, it is going to blow big.
A real estate deal gone bad, its only one of a few. The amount of daily shady stuff that goes in the stock market is the daily scam.
The amount of insider trading, penny stock scam, etc etc every single day far exceeds a lawyer and a scammer. Big Deal.
I am involved in trading daily, and see no scams. Link? — Garth
I think they will never find that Korean guy and she will get 2-3 years and will be free in half of the time – going to Korea and getting her part of money.
Don’t be so sure. — Garth
Wow a woman fraudster. Imagine if it was a straight male in his 30s. The lynch mob will result.
The condo investors are screwed. Advice to you young men in pink Canada whose wives are forcing you to buy a home–DON’T BUY.
Ever heard of divorce?
If it isn’t a female condo lawyer screwing you over,it’s your ex-wife, the justice system and family court screwing you over and confiscating your house.
You are far better investing in real estate in moderate conservative countries.
# happier out of Canada
# Save currency
# Expat
We’re happy, too. — Garth
My oh my what a bunch of idiots the new gen are,
Movie star type, sit on your soon to be fat ass and cry you did me wrong,it won’t happen sitting on your ass!!!!!!
Go and try it won’t happen while you are in a state of Hollywood get real
Nah, It’s just a small hiccup for RE investors on their way to prosperity and wealth.
Maybe few hundreds out of 105k condos under construction were blown? Few percents maybe? What are we talking about here, couple dozen millions? That’s a pretty good score for the industry, very healthy action just to scare some children.
paper clients
In 2013 the Federation of European Stock Exchanges picked as “best new listed company.”
Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy honored for creating a company that “thought globally.” won the top award from the Spanish Marketing Association—
…”In 2013, the European Commission launched these awards to promote best practices and the success stories of the most dynamic companies financed by European public capital markets, in particular targeting growth companies, as these are critical for the recovery of the European economy. ”
===========
who is Justice Holdings Limited ?
#3
How do you release $12.1M in error?
——————————————
I think we all know the answer to that question.
The only error she made here was sticking around after the fact. Did she not get the memo to scarper to Korea?
DELETED
@ #27 Yogi Bear // #21 whatever
China crash has begun. 25% off… just to get things started.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinas-falling-real-estate-prices-trigger-protests-clashes-2014-08-26
I remember reading about Chinese investors involved in some kind of shadow banking investment fund that went belly up… they protested and demanded their money back from the government. I bet these protestors will do the same.
China’s credit bubble is staggering. When you look at the naivety of the average investor there, you quickly realize how it came to be.
When that mother blows, it is going to blow big.
————————————
Just read that article… the logic of those “investors” is as ridiculous as the group trying to sue Canada for not processing their immigration. Sense of entitlement to the extreme — they are rioting because something they bought essentially went on sale (went down in value). Imagine that with a stock or a car or anything else!
@ #8 Cy says:
What does SOL mean/stand for?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
it means “So Out of Luck”
TARION board of directors:
http://www.tarion.com/About-Tarion/Pages/Board-of-Directors.aspx
most of whom are building industry leaders.
so…let me get this straight: the ontario government gives an insurance monopoly to a group of people who just happen to run the vast majority of the construction industry?
canada is gangsta central–hiding behind a brainwashed antiquated facade of “peacekeeping”, “passivity”, and “feel-good liberalism” insanity.
Put in Canada and compare to USA, Japan and you will see we are next in line along with UK and Australia
http://infographics.economist.com/2014/hpi0114/?n=21540328&w=595
@ #20 van isle renter
yes im serious, and of course i expect agents may have been excluded form the Korean fiasco anyway Sometimes Builders make the rules
What exactly did you read in those contracts is ‘self serving’?
All the pre printed fine print is mutually beneficial to the buyers and sellers.
with builders contracts it really is a free for all, i would never sign one
TREB CREA OREA contracts contain nothing like what you are implying
Property bubble is ‘major risk to China’
See: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/42ed2476-1648-11e4-93ec-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3BXhryPi1
My favorite quote: “In just two years – 2011 and 2012 – China produced more cement than the US did in the entire 20th century.”
The Chinese real estate market is screwed, and this WILL impact Vancouver real estate is a seriously harmful way.
#2 RTARL
the real lynchpin in the ontario economy…will be when the vast majority of people relatively new to canada…who have been hitherto supporting the aging tax base, governmental systems (like schools), and becoming fresh debt slaves…pack up shop, and head home…
for a better economic chance in life…
when the government freebies stop…trending and subsequent emigration will be detrimental, to say the least.
#NothingBeats… #TheEternalVerity… #OfRighteousPerpWalks. #ExceptMaybe…
http://youtu.be/v0nKkhy8v0M
[NoteToCapt.BillyBob: Please tell me your FirstOfficer isn’t Ms. Galore…]
#149 devore on 08.26.14 at 2:54 pm
#98 Andrew Woburn
It is only a coincidence that Texas real estate prices did not inflate like in so much of the US.
Is it? Is that what they tell you in economist school?
=========================
That was supposed to be irony. Actually I suspect sound lending practices might have had something to do with it.
I was going to take economics until I saw the prescribed textbook bulging with impressive mathematical formulas. Even then I suspected that pretending you could boil down the world’s greed, fear and politics into a tidy equivalent of e=mc squared was madness. Nothing I have seen in the subsequent fifty years has changed my mind.
All this green hand wringing lately. But no catalytic converters for bikes.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2014/08/25/toronto_should_crack_down_on_loud_motorcycles_editorial.html
#31 saskatoon on 08.26.14 at 7:14 pm
TARION board of directors:
so…let me get this straight: the ontario government gives an insurance monopoly to a group of people who just happen to run the vast majority of the construction industry?
canada is gangsta central–hiding behind a brainwashed antiquated facade of “peacekeeping”, “passivity”, and “feel-good liberalism” insanity.
=============================
Google “The Family Compact”. See how much has changed. Being discreetly governed by our betters is a proud old Canadian tradition.
“……..the Law Society has suspended the solicitor who, for years, has been a fixture in the Toronto condo scene.”
————————–
Sounds like she should be pretty familiar with how pre-sale financing works on condo development.
How could she have possibly paid the developer the $12 million in error??
“Property bubble is ‘major risk to China’”
Nothing much new here if you have been following the situation, but a good summary if you haven’t
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/42ed2476-1648-11e4-93ec-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3BWfcYN6N
And what a recipe for heartache that is.
Ah, soon we will see that such heartaches are trivial compared to the bigger forces of annihilation lining up.
Chinese RE economy about to implode.
Fake US recovery about to tip over.
Consumer debt crises blowing up everywhere.
Disease outbreaks going global faster than ever, with outdated antibiotics of little help.
One tinder box after another in global/military politics, with more and more chance that one or more will blow out of control.
Canadian real estate getting primed for a sustained drop over time of 50-90%, adjusted for inflation.
The environment rearing its ugly head all over, faster and more urgently than ever before – Great Lakes water in big trouble (Toledo!!), bug infestations moving north. And just look at how catastrophic the current drought in the US has become:
http://www.weather.com/news/science/devastating-photos-show-lakes-drying-20140825
Get ready for a huge price increase, then complete unavailability of California winter crops, followed with a CA real estate meltdown and mass migrations.
A crooked lawyer and developer (allegedly) in Toronto?
Trivial by comparison.
We are all so screwed. I give it less than three years now. Total calamity.
#45 TurnerNation
My larger bike has a catalytic converter and fuel injection. California emissions. It’s a VStar 1300. Very nice.
My smaller bike does not. It’s a KLM 250s. But I would argue against putting catalytic converters on smaller bikes. Weight is the issue, and the sucker gets something like 70 miles a gallon. It’s not causing a pollution problem when looked at emissions per mile travelled. My lawnmower is much worse.
Even the large bikes like my VStar beat almost anything with 4 wheels for mileage, even hybrids. If they are using less gas, the are emitting les of everything including CO2. That’s what you get when you are only pushing 600 pounds around.
Feel really sorry for the people who were duped.
Misery & disaster week, indeed.
——————
On the other note, ask me why I cut the cord (i.e. cable tv). Thanks to free-to-air (FTA)!
No sure if anyone posted this already bu it looks like another straw in the wind.
Real estate darling Teranet troubled by debt – The Globe and Mail
“Monopolies on land registries should make for good business in a real estate boom, yet Teranet was just dealt a debt downgrade.”
The company’s “registration activity rate (RAR) has been below our expectations in recent years,” the rating agency noted. “The RAR is the company’s key revenue driver, and is determined by dividing registration volumes by the total parcel base. We believe a combination of tepid refinancing activity in recent years (given relatively stable interest rates), mortgage rule changes, and structural changes in the composition of the parcel base have contributed to the depressed RAR.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/streetwise/real-estate-darling-teranet-troubled-by-debt/article20114785/#dashboard/follows/
Is there something in the water in TO that is making people stupid? Having owned a condo once in Alberta I would rather live under a bridge in a box than own another one.Why anyone would buy a condo other than from the Lord God Himself that is not yet built is beyond my imagination. Real developers don’t need my deposit to start building anything.
The Calgary market is plenty stupid with million buck duplexes going up in my neighbourhood endlessly. I rent one of those for a couple of grand a month. The rent value on puts the property value at perhaps $350K probably less. I like my money spread out far and wide in cheap index funds thank you very much.
#45 TurnerNation on 08.26.14 at 7:31 pm
Re:Loud bikes
Not only Edmonton has clamped down on Hardley Ableson posers with straight pipes. Gatineau and other PQ jurisdictions are running roadside spot checks with decimeters.
I have been guilty of owning loud bikes but I have to agree, it is getting stoopid. Loud pipes don’t save lives but do hurt the hobby with overbearing crackdowns.
In case you didn’t have enough reasons not to buy a condo, here are some more:
http://www.torontorealtyblog.com/archives/red-flag-condo-locations/11382
There was a slew of similar RE investments in Alberta where apparently the projects just went belly up robbing investors of a couple billion, here is a list of them:
http://www.albertainvestorsprotection.com/Investments.php
Unfortunately they were securitized and sold in the “exempt dealer market”.
Anyone out there get caught up in this?
Lesson of the story: do not buy pre-construction condos from foreign developers
Hardly. Canadians are just as capable to misdeeds, and there was a domestic partner. The whiff of xenophobia rising off this blog is disturbing. — Garth
Re GT entry “The Smell Test”; I checked the figures on mid month average price changes from April to August 2014 – you are absolutely correct Garth, detached houses fell 16.7%, and yet this decrease does not show up in the HPI prices over the April-July period.
Whats more, 2013 average prices were revised down in the August report – can that happen? Aren’t the averages baked in at the end of the year? (Unless it’s a rolling 2013). Makes comparisons to 2013 look better; perhaps I’m misinterpreting. What say the blog dogs?
http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/release_market_updates/news2014/nr_mid_month_0414.htm
Detached 416 house mid April 2014: $1,012,172
http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/release_market_updates/news2014/nr_market_watch_0818.htm
Detached 416 house mid August 2014: $843,138
http://credit.bankofcanada.ca/monetaryaggregates
M2 grows with 6-7 % on yearly bases. How much was the official inflation, please remind me?
personal credit: 1.7 trillion.+ Business: 1.5+.
All deposits?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m2
1.26 trilllions.
Ups. Ouch, Wow!
There is a line in the Clint Eastwood movie “Unforgiven”, where one of the characters ( a young, unestablished gunslinger who has just claimed his first “kill”) says……”He had it coming”.
And Clint replies that….”We all have it coming, kid”.
No doubt we all do, and some might say that those who purchased in this condo unit without due diligence had it coming. But those who wish to gloat about other peoples misfortunes or miscalculations need to understand that bad things happen to well meaning people. It’s fine to sit back and say ‘thank god it wasn’t me or my parents, etc. who put those deposits down in good faith”, but those that did still deserve our empathy. If their motive was inspired by investment versus shelter they still acted in good faith and expected the same from their business partners.
It’s a warning and example to all of us, of course.
A friend posted all over Facebook today that they purchased, renovated and flipped a property in two months.
Good for them that there are still house horny people out there.
#Sometimes… #LoudPipesDoSaveLives… #Bears,AreYouWatching?
http://youtu.be/PK822Rc-H6Y
[NoteToSaltierDogz: We ‘PussySuit’ wearers have often opined, “The louder the Hog, the smaller the ‘log’.” That said… Some rural CanyonCarvers wouldn’t think of riding without them. NoteToGT: Sounds like a WhirlPool under constant throttle… Like an F-4Phantom on burners when ‘dialed’. Thank you, Termignoni!]
@#30 Happier out
……….and I thought I was bitter……….
Wise man, that Shakespeare fellow.
Hank VI – Act 2 – Part 4 – Scene 2.
#58 Sheane Wallace on 08.26.14 at 8:26 pm
http://credit.bankofcanada.ca/monetaryaggregates
M2 grows with 6-7 % on yearly bases. How much was the official inflation, please remind me?
personal credit: 1.7 trillion.+ Business: 1.5+.
All deposits?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m2
1.26 trilllions.
Ups. Ouch, Wow!
**************************************
You really need to post that the Party Leader King run dictatorship govt of Kanukustan lies about stats?
@#60 Trojans
Hopefully Revenue Canada doesnt read Uncle Garths blog or Facebook.
Lack of beach weather made everyone cranky. So misery week turned to misery month.
report today that the Council on Foreign Relations released a report actually recommending central banks directly start handing out cash to comsumers to juice the ecomony as trillions of QE has basically gone to the 1 %,stock market ect and created boom and bust and distorted asset prices for the fortunate few.
You know the ptb must be getting nervious that they just cant shake this low/no growth that’s enveloped the world.
Id like to get the inside track on where to line up for my share….
Ps. …tip…blew the rear belt on the HD going to work this morning @5;30 am….should realy look at a belt to chain conversion by the good folks @ Zippers performance ,wont leave ya stranded Garth
#22 Yogi Bear
You’ve got a point there!
And if something meaningful doesn’t come out of this case (i.e.: the vampires walk), that might just be the bucket of ice water needed to chill commercial and speculator demand for all the new condos coming down the pipeline…
Its funny how everyone is saying the main chinese are buying everything up. And it almost next to impossible to get the stats or an estimate on how much is actually foriegn ownership.
We’ll in less than a two weeks, we have the figures for this unit which was suppose to have been swallowed up by foriegners. Note it would be interesting to see what the other 10% is? Probably divided by corporate ownership and very few foriegners.
You have to ask yourself why don’t they want the buyers to know this info. Its simple, mystery and a facade. If they didn’t have this foriegner ownership crap to sell you then how many overpriced units would they actually sell
We’ll in this unit, 90% are dumbass Canadians
The Centrium-Cho debacle might only be the first canary to keel in this coal mine of condos. Garth’s article says “105,000 condo’s in the pipeline 123 permits for electricity.” -condensed
Hmmm me thinks it will be a LONG time before those 105,000 units are completed, if ever. That begs the question of buyers recourse if the units are not completed timely. Also, who knows how many more debacles like tonights discussion await in the future?
I know nothing of Canadian real estate laws, or customs.
I do have a clue in the US as to building on dirt.
Completion dates can be “drop dead” dates if written into contract.
If I am buying a home, duplex, or condo I will insist on a ‘drop dead’ date for occupancy, or refund, with prevailing interest – or we will NOT have a deal.
As for lawyer Cho, I assume her ‘suspension’ may lead to her disbarment (defrocking)? Any trust lawyer who hands over 12.1 million of trust money- can no longer be trusted.
As for the ‘buyers’ t I do feel your pain, but the old adage “caveat emptor” let the buyer beware still holds!!
BE AWARE!!!
Trust, but verify, and always give your contracts an escape clause for non-performance.
When you plunk down money on a un-built entity, you are trusting it will be built according to plan. Have a copy of the specs, and then compare what you ‘see’ to the specifications. If they seem different, check it out. Check your contract you signed.
Timmies might be hiring Ms. Cho
I wish I could find hard numbers, but there are a lot of holes in the ground for RETAIL that is sitting for months, here in Vancouver.
The property we owned in Pt. Grey, in the 80’s – was knocked down and a home has been thrown up, right to the property line, and it has been on the market for TWO YEARS.
Something really stinks, even with the cheap money and they can’t get as many punters to jump over the cliff.
Jobs? I keep seeing news about more cutbacks in Media (my old beat) in the mainstream and the jobs posted I see are P/T and no bennies.
Problemos, Senor Turner, y es grande. Oy Gevalt.
Breach of trust it may well be, but wasn’t there a chap by the name of P.T. Barnum a short while ago who said something to the effect . . . “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
Life is a two-way street for everyone, because whatever a person puts out is precisely what that person gets back, whether positive or negative.
*
#79 Spectacle on 08.25.14 at 11:03 pm — “Sir NostyVlad, care to link a presentation for us dogs?”
— in combination with —
#74 omg on 08.25.14 at 10:45 pm — “ECONOMIST’S AND THEIR MODELS KNOW DIDDLY SQUAT”
But of course! There is some truth to that. Read the heads, skip the rest and you will understand what is happening.
The Last Act of a desperate nation is to loot the people, Cold War 2 (To divert sheeple’s attention spans away from the imploding global economy); Just as the Argentine peso collapsed yesterday (Monday), so the UK economy is about to follow suit. Congrats., MC, you have performed an astoundingly good job on both Canada and the UK! Jerry Brown says welcome the illegals, because their eekonomee is California Collapsing, so there is new cheap labor. France and the Rothschilds plus Germany not doing so well; CFR stuff. That should keep you content for a while!
#112 Robert Agnew on 08.26.14 at 9:06 am — “Quantitative easing, the asymmetric war by Islamo fascists, . . .”
Assymmetric war? Check out what Muhammed said, then this link for further info. as to who is funding ISIS, ISIL and al qu’CIAdeeuhh.
#118 miketheengineer on 08.26.14 at 10:14 am — “…..it is going to be a really tough winter for them.”
Esp. when the Polar Vortex returns for a repeat performance. For further info., google The Farmer’s Almanac predictions for winter. The FA is generally straight to the point, and doesn’t come with the BS given off by “climate experts”.
“Timmies might be hiring Ms. Cho.” – BoomingRetireeOfWI
#TalkAbout,”MakeMyDay.”
#BonusReaganShinto:”Trust,ButVerify”:
http://youtu.be/As6y5eI01XE
#Alternatively:PopularRonnieRayGunMalapropism:
http://youtu.be/bBow1ToJBFE
[NoteToGT: Seriously, by that point in his career you’d think an AuldActor would have figured out that the microphones are always live. Live and learn.]
One final word…. unless you are your own general contractor when building, best to buy an existing structure, or from a builder you know & trust.
This is the US – we own guns, ethics taught via the barrel.
(my opinion only)
Italian Canadians say ” don’t buy condos , pre construction , existing ,or otherwise. Buy the land that they will one day sit on”.
La terra e sempre la terra
#68 takla on 08.26.14 at 9:05 pm
bummer!
has the motor been ”modified’?
an old buddy did the belt primary to chain mod on an old shovelhead stroker … my advice would be to get an expert to do this. it took some time to get it to run true.
drove them to drink…
#36 “Just read that article… the logic of those “investors” is as ridiculous as the group trying to sue Canada for not processing their immigration. Sense of entitlement to the extreme — they are rioting because something they bought essentially went on sale (went down in value). Imagine that with a stock or a car or anything else!”
Lets not forget that these people don’t have a culture of capitalism.. 25 years ago this was a country that ran on communist rice paddy fields… The chinese will implode. Too volatile of a nation. No rule of law, no democracy, corrupt in every sense of the word.
Money Supply Growth
Shean at 58 seems worried about M2 money supply growth and posts a link that says:
“Money Supply M2 in Canada increased to 1261734 CAD Million in June of 2014 from 1260751 CAD Million in May of 2014. ”
And the link warns: of Money Supply Growth
Lot of figures there, no comma separators, hard to read.
And the link warns of a Coming Economic Collapse.
Let’s repeat the above sentence with four significant digits.
Money Supply M2 in Canada increased to 1.262 trillion CAD in June of 2014 from 1.261 trillion CAD in May of 2014.
Really, M2 is by 0.1%. Time to panic?
Sheane might do better to focus on the increase in his OWN money supply and not fret about Canada’s M2.
A lot of people say “we are so screwed”. Speak for yourselves please.
Why would she go to Korea? Ever see the jails there? Make ours look like a 400 square foot condo that didn’t get delivered.
#21 whatever: “China crash has begun. 25% off… just to get things started.”
Same thing happened in the US at the beginning of the end — developers were the first to cut prices and run, while homeowners held on all the way down. They waited in vain for a greater fool, not realizing that they were it.
Garth…do you really think that 60% of the population deserve our pity ?
Mercy is different. It’s a duty.
In life one gets not what one wants but what one does deserve.
What are the chances that the land will be sold and the proceeds will be used to pay back the victims?
Zero. The victims legally own nothing. — Garth
I say 17% is just the beginning…. just wait until winter, interest rates rise, inflation with cdn dollar drop, and poor job market and salary stagnatuon. Add in net sellers due to 500k old folk retiring hitting 65 every year for next 7 years, along with disability with older folk in large multi story homes and it will be nice to buy with 70% off
http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/release_market_updates/news2014/nr_mid_month_0414.htm
Detached 416 house mid April 2014: $1,012,172http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/release_market_updates/news2014/nr_market_watch_0818.htm
Detached 416 house mid August 2014: $843,138
We’re happy, too. — Garth
———————————————-
Garth you crack me up. Have you ever considered stand-up?
#60 Trojan House on 08.26.14 at 8:27 pm
————————————————
CRA accepts anonymous tips.
Misery week again? More like misery year or should I say misery-since-this-blog-began. Yep, our financial state is miserable and the longer this misery continues, the more miserable our future will be.
Thanks for trying to save us from our miserable selves, Garth.
#54 OttawaMike on 08.26.14 at 7:53 pm
————————————————-
It’s not right that someone owns a vehicle that can wake you up at 6am when they fire it up in their driveway 50 metres away….come on, some of those bikes are completely ridiculous and are, and should be, illegal. Just like someone blaring a stereo or running a circular saw at the wrong time of day. Glad to hear there’s a crackdown on it.
From “Big Dog” comments:
#98 Andrew Woburn on 08.26.14 at 12:21 am
“On the other hand, here in Canada, business seems to be moving away from downtown according to Advisor.ca.
There are now more than 500-million square feet of free space.”
First of all, there is about 500 million SF in TOTAL across all of Canada. So it’s impossible for it to be “free space”, which I will assume you mean vacant space.
“More vacancies were in downtown areas than suburbs. Canada’s downtown markets posted a 7.2% vacancy rate – up 150 bps year-over-year. In contrast, suburban vacancy increased 120 bps to 11.8% as the downtown/suburban vacancy spread narrowed to 460 bps.
So are millennials enslaving themselves with downtown prices so they can wind up commuting back to the suburbs?”
Your point contradicts the stats you quote from Advisor.ca.
Millennials, for the most part, either live and work downtown, or live in suburbs and commute downtown. Not too many live in the suburbs and go to office jobs in the suburbs after graduation.
Also, most small tech companies, which can grow quickly and attract a lot of millennial talent, are downtown. When they grow, they usually stay downtown. It’s only old established companies that stay in the burbs: HBC, Loblaws (But not Joe Fresh), Magna, etc. But Coca-cola recently announced they are moving from the burbs to downtown TO.
In Calgary, we did a site tour of a large building leased to a large oil and gas company. They are investing $100m+ in their office space (consolidating from 3 buildings to this one) to have technology and “break-out spaces” and “bistros” and walls that can be written on, and Samsung tablets in tables, etc., all in the attempt to keep their millennials from going to other companies. Their business risk is losing talent as much as it is a falling oil price.
Bottoms up said:
#60 Trojan House on 08.26.14 at 8:27 pm
————————————————
CRA accepts anonymous tips.
***************************************
Jealous much? There was no indication of tax evasion there.
If you are tipping CRA try to make it worthwhile. No sense being a RAT when there is nothing to RAT about.
Let CRA do its own job. Make your own money, worry about your own taxes.
#74 Nemesis
Great Post. It might be of interest to know I am generally left of center politically, but quite right of center on economics.
Don’t ask me “why” but, that is how this addled cranium operates. Never have voted a straight party ticket either.
Reagan, not my favorite actor
Lots of talk about Japan.
Let me remind you that property prices here are MORE EXPENSIVE than London, Vancouver, New York, Sydney.
Its not cheap here.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/42ed2476-1648-11e4-93ec-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3BWfcYN6N
#63 Earthbound misfit
“First, get rid of the lawyers” if my memory serves me
#24 Frustrated on 08.26.14 at 6:20 pm
“Garth,
Could the people who put money down for a condo take over the land to cover some cost ? Im sure the land alone is worth a lot.”
Based on somewhat recent land sales in downtown Toronto, the value of land in “Per buildable square foot” is around $65 to $75. So if you have a 800 sq ft condo, it would be work about $52,000 to $60,000.
@#90 Shawn
Hmmmmmmm, methinks thou doth protest too much.
Skeletons in the closet?
Yo Bottoms Up .
Rat this guy out too! He’s DEFINITELY a tax cheat !
Pay yer taxes Shawn ……or else!
#44 Andrew Woburn
Didn’t know if you wrote it or quoted it.
Like any subject, economics is taught from basic frameworks up. Sure, the neat supply/demand curve does not exist in the real world, but what it represents does. Understanding the basic principles helps you make sense of things and make decisions on a level a lay person does not. Last time I worried about cosines or long division was in high school, but we don’t throw basic trigonometry and arithmetic out with the rest of the dirty bathwater.
Yawn…………
Question – Did CMCH provide mortgage insurance for the condo developer?
#69 Cici
Nah, too much money to be made. This is just an isolated case, stuff that happens to other people, no one will even think twice.
#91 Retired Boomer – WI
The burden of Libertarians, smooshed across the canon political spectrum.
I remember well my education in buying a condo pre-construction back in ’97. The project finished almost on schedule and I learned a new word courtesy of the developer, “deflection”. During the deficiency inspection (days before the collapse of the New Home Warranty program) I pointed out that our kitchen cabinets were out by 1/2 an inch over a distance of 7 feet which was easy to see. Out came the contract and it turns out that it was an allowable “deflection”. There sure seemed to be a lot of those “deflections” in our brand new condo,few of which were repaired.
We quickly learned that new didn’t mean perfect with defects like dryer vents that had been stuccoed over,improperly planted trees and leaky balconies. Thankfully we sold before the envelope failed. Our neighbours weren’t so lucky and ponied up between 50-100k per unit for the fix. As a young couple that would have killed us. The developer fled back to New Zealand when it came to light that everything he had built in North Van was leaking and how much the repairs cost.
Every now and then I kiss the ground and thank Christ that I’m no longer a condo owner. The endless,ever increasing special assessments,strata council politics and blatant over charging by contractors were too much for me to bear. Sure, my ex and I missed out on a fair amount of appreciation but the emotional toll was too high.
Hopefully those people in Toronto get restitution. As for justice, I wouldn’t hold my breath. 13 million buys a lot of legal shelter anywhere in the world.
“Ummm….Canada has 100X the Immigration of Japan. Yes you read that correct. One hundred times!
Migration into japan averages 52,000, compared to 250,000 for Canada. The Japanese population peaked at 130 million and is steadily declining and aging, adding to economic woes. By 2050 there will be about 30 million fewer residents, and 40% of all citizens will be over the age of 65%. As a result the government is actively considering raising immigration to 200,000 annually. — Garth”
Mr Turner seems to be suggesting that the economy needs to be constantly expanding but at the same time he worries about (alleged) anthropogenic global warming.
Simple math…
Miami = gateway to some of Latin America = let’s say 200 million people
Toronto = gateway to China, India, Europe, Middle East, Russia, Vancouver, PEI = 4 billion people
4,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = factor of 20
Metro Miami 4,500 condo units x 20 = 90,000 = tight inventory for Canadians
Just so nobody busts a vein in their forehead I’m obviously being facetious.
@Nemesis
[NoteToCapt.BillyBob: Please tell me your FirstOfficer isn’t Ms. Galore…]
*********************************************
:-)
Nah only about 30 female pilots out of around 3500…but there is definitely PussyGalore in the 18,000 strong cabin crew…
Doin’ their corporate thing a couple months back…
http://www.theglobalzambian.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/EMIRATES-Emirates-Cabin-Crew-line-up-with-the-2014-FIFA-World-Cup-winn….jpg
Market is going bubblicious here in Dubai again in anticipation of Expo 2020. They never learn.
89 Professor K on 08.26.14 at 10:40 pm
From “Big Dog” comments:
#98 Andrew Woburn on 08.26.14 at 12:21 am
“On the other hand, here in Canada, business seems to be moving away from downtown according to Advisor.ca.
There are now more than 500-million square feet of free space.”
First of all, there is about 500 million SF in TOTAL across all of Canada. So it’s impossible for it to be “free space”, which I will assume you mean vacant space.
========================
You are right Professor K. Apparently there is only about 500K sq feet of office space in Canada. It looks like Advisor.ca slipped in an extra zero. If the total vacancy rate is closing in on 10% then maybe they meant to say there is about 50,000 empty feet at present.
The thing that caught my attention was Avison Young’s contention that city vacancies are now higher than those in the suburbs. I had been under the impression that business was moving downtown to attract millennials. Clearly this is true in the tech sphere but not everybody can be a techie.
My point was that if millennials keep paying crazy prices for downtown sky boxes, they are indirectly raising the ante for officer tower developers. Office rent is a relatively small cost for tech startups who are paying relatively high salaries to a few people but it can become a serious burden to more boring businesses who might be lured to the suburbs.
Thanks to your comment I discovered another fascinating fact. The US office inventory is around 10 billion sq feet or twenty times ours instead of the 10:1 ratio you would expect. No idea why, but cost per sq foot must be one of the factors.
Garth, you certainly do have a way with words…
First, never buy a condo you can’t pee in, and for those about learn something bitter about lusting after a pre-construction property.
Ouch!!! Buzz kill
#102 Setting the Record Straight
Yap, Vladimir also agrees with you, no global warming. In Kyoto he said something like; Russia is northern country what could go wrong if its get bit wormer…
http://qz.com/256020/russias-warming-faster-than-the-rest-of-the-planet-and-seeing-disease-drought-and-forest-fires-as-a-result/
No due diligence on their part. No evaluation of risk when several international ratings agencies have said we are in 40%+ bubble and they piled in anxious to make a buck.
Now they run to government for protection and a likely handout. This is the kind of stuff that makes real estate investing risk free.
Maybe it’s me, but in my opinion its time people recall that investing entails risk and is why you should be doing some due diligence instead of forking over millions to your paisan realtor/FA.
#37 liquidincalgary on 08.26.14 at 7:14 pm
@ #8 Cy says:
What does SOL mean/stand for?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
it means “So Out of Luck”
————-
C’mon now… you don’t have to censor the anonymous comment section of a blog!…
SOL means “shit outta luck”
No way would I buy a condo pre construction or otherwise.
The real estate I buy has to have some land attached to it .
After all , if everything g goes to hell in a hand basket at least I can plant tomatoes and radicchio on the land
I just listened to a piece on CBC Radio about people living below the poverty line.
The family of four with an income below $30k qualified for a $150k mortgage on a condo in Scarborough. They’re better off than most though, they sold all their jewlery and a property in Sri Lanka for a downpayment.
They’re smart to do it. The condo is a better place for their kids than most Scarborough rentals. Probably has better transit too. But it’s a strange time. Given the downpayment, this was not likely even covered by the CMHC. The bar is pretty low for the banks.
That said, they sounded like the typical overeducated underemployed immigrant family. Probably a doctor and lawyer sharing shifts at the 7-11.
#44 Andrew W
THAT. IS. HILARIOUS :-)
“I was going to take economics until I saw the prescribed textbook bulging with impressive mathematical formulas. Even then I suspected that pretending you could boil down the world’s greed, fear and politics into a tidy equivalent of e=mc squared was madness. Nothing I have seen in the subsequent fifty years has changed my mind.”
Laughed my head off as I once again skipped over the boring, repetitive, simpleton AKA Italian RE troll……………
@#102 Whitey
“Every now and then I kiss the ground and thank Christ that I’m no longer a condo owner. The endless,ever increasing special assessments,strata council politics and blatant over charging by contractors were too much for me to bear…”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Excellent summation of the reasons not to get stuck into Condo hell.
Strata “assessments”
Strata “politics”
Strata “preferred contractors”
All which result in expensive extra bills.
Condos….wouldnt touch one with “Italians Love Real Estate”‘s money…….
What? A less than honest Lawyer? what someone absconded with the funds, that sounds a little fishy! She was either stupid to hand over $12M to “A guy”,naive or in on it. I’m going with in on it!
Good luck to all the fish caught in that net!
BTW Where is Smoking Man? He usually has a few choice words on everything? I can’t believe it but his lunacy is entertaining.
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-survey-us-economists-agree-feds-concerns-fear-154205717.html
WASHINGTON – Economists appear to be of two minds about the Federal Reserve.
They agree with the Fed that the job market still isn’t healthy. Yet the latest Associated Press survey of economists finds that most fear the Fed will wait too long to raise interest rates and thereby risk stoking inflation or creating asset bubbles.
The duality of their views underscores the perils of the Fed’s policymaking. Most economists accept that there’s still “significant” slack in the job market. By that they mean that millions of people — the unemployed as well as part-time workers and people who’ve stopped looking for work and aren’t counted as unemployed — would likely take jobs or work more hours if they could.
Still, they’re concerned that Janet Yellen’s Fed won’t raise rates soon enough.
As for Ms. Cho et al, the MSM is now all over this story.
http://www.citynews.ca/2014/08/26/police-arrest-lawyer-in-alleged-north-york-condo-scam/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/meerai-cho-faces-75-charges-relating-to-condo-deposits-1.2747254
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/26/lawyer_charged_with_failing_to_return_15_million_in_condo_deposits.html
http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-lawyer-arrested-in-condominium-fraud-investigation-1.1976617
Garth et al:
Link to medical expert, talking about Ebola, and that it is going to go on for another 9 months (as he calculates). This is going to cause a lot of issues globally. Personally, since GTA had SARS to deal with, I think we have a slight advantage. See the link:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cfp-radio/2014/08/26/steve-quayle-dr-s–critical-update-on-the-hagmann-hagmann-report
Good Luck
104 Spaccone on 08.27.14 at 1:06 am
“Just so nobody busts a vein in their forehead I’m obviously being facetious.”
I read that last part just in time…I almost didn’t make it there.
Who asked for, and which political party granted, the changes to Ontario’s Condo Act that allow developers access to deposits in trust so long as they have a surety in place?
If deposits were required to be sealed in trust, without exception, until a condo is registered this scam would never have happened.
Developer surety is a BIG business in builder friendly Ontario.
I think they will never find that Korean guy and she will get 2-3 years and will be free in half of the time – going to Korea and getting her part of money.
Don’t be so sure. — Garth
Garth please keep the blogdogs apprised of the criminal and civil proceedings in this matter…
Toronto is a house of cards as children starve due to greedy realtor scum?
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/27/toronto_child_poverty_rate_at_epidemic_levels.html
What I find also interesting is that the Globe as “Closed” comments on the story. Like shit we have to report this but let’s keep the comments ( that would explode ) off the post.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-lawyer-arrested-in-relation-to-condo-fraud-totalling-124-million/article20217128/
#106 Andrew Woburn
“Office rent is a relatively small cost for tech startups who are paying relatively high salaries to a few people but it can become a serious burden to more boring businesses who might be lured to the suburbs.”
——————————-
I agree with this comment but I’d like to say that after years working in the high tech field I have become a huge fan of those boring traditional businesses that produce actual hardware, materials, machinery and food that people need to live in the physical world.
An old programmer’s saying:
“Those who like both software and sausages should never watch either one being made.”
#57 Singaporean Investor on 08.26.14 at 8:14 pm
Lesson of the story: do not buy pre-construction condos from foreign developers
Hardly. Canadians are just as capable to misdeeds, and there was a domestic partner. The whiff of xenophobia rising off this blog is disturbing. — Garth
——————————————————
Did the MSM mention the domestic partner? I don’t remember hearing it on the news last night on CTV. Is the MSM complicit in the xenophobia?
Just lazy. The Star spent two days spelling the lawyer’s name incorrectly. — Garth
#Ooops… #”AndYetItMoves”…
[WSJ] – Chinese Buy Out American Visas for Investors
…”Due to a surge in Chinese participation, the U.S. for the first time is on course this fiscal year to run out of immigrant-investor visas that offer a fast track to permanent residency. As the WSJ’s Miriam Jordan reports:
As of this week, the visas—which have come under fire from critics who question their economic impact—are “unavailable” to Chinese individuals until the 2015 fiscal year, which starts Oct. 1, according to a State Department official.
The program has grown steadily as wealthy Chinese use it to gain a foothold in the U.S. Its main selling point is that it enables participants to bypass the uncertainty and yearslong wait to gain U.S. residency through an employer or relative. Last year, China accounted for more than 80% of all EB-5 investors.”These investors aren’t coming for the investment,” said Yi Song, a New York lawyer who works with Chinese clients. “They are coming here for their children to obtain a better education and to get residence as an insurance policy.”…
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/08/27/chinese-buy-out-american-visas-for-investors/
C’mon now… you don’t have to censor the anonymous comment section of a blog!…
SOL means “shit outta luck”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
actually sean, i was quoting another intelligent man, that i respect almost as much as garth…charles adler!
Korean company comes all the way here to scam Korean immigrants. That’s just mean, even for thiefs.
Meanwhile, in the banking world, National Bank has a great earnings quarter and a good outlook. Valuation 10x earnings. What is that, 4x cheaper than a house in Toronto? Bought more shares. Come on… that’s right… come to papa you lovely little 4% dividend.
The ugliest hole in the ground in Victoria still sits across from the new arena and next door to a high end redevelopment of the old Hudson Bay. What a view from those new condos that are down in price considerably. Every year someone comes out with an article like this saying it will be built… every year for the last 6 years. Wonder who lost their shirt on this debacle.
Meanwhile the mortgage industry lends to part timers in high risk industries and retail workers. This won’t end well.
http://vibrantvictoria.ca/local-news/downtowns-massive-pit-may-soon-disappear-in-preparation-for-hudson-walk-project/
In the meantime, not to be outdone by Vancouver…
http://tinyurl.com/LondonExcess
Asking price was over $ 1 million CAD, and according to the estate agent there is an offer over that!
And it’s currently uninhabitable!
at #39 DocInWaitingRoom
Thanks for the source. Nice to see Canada accompanied with Germany, Japan and Switzerland. Isn’t that a sign of how to make people live better by focusing on technologies instead of selling glued wood dust (a house) for 100 times more than its cost? Could the way of other 3 be a definition of what a healthy and affordable RE is?
#123 GTA house of cards
dude…where does it say anything about children starving?
get your head on straight.
smaller blog sites often force the hand of the complicit MSM.
good work here, garth.
This one is for Smoking Man!
A Dream Within a Dream
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow —
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.
I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand —
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep — while I weep!
O God! Can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?
By Edgar Allan Poe
#131 from the link
“By comparison, a one bedroom flat in pristine condition, but with 350sq ft less space in the same area, is currently on the market for £1,295,000.”
—————–
that’s a 550sf one bed for over 2million CAD in smelly london, not even freehold, wow.
RE seems the easy way to get rich.
buy SFH in the fresh pacific air of vancouver and you can’t lose.
Re: #129 Nomad on 08.27.14 at 12:08 pm
You’ll figure it out when they still pay a 4 percent dividend after their share price drops 80 percent… you know what they say about a fool and his money.
”
I think they will never find that Korean guy and she will get 2-3 years and will be free in half of the time – going to Korea and getting her part of money.
Don’t be so sure. — Garth”
She will skate with zero time served…she will not be disbarred as there is no evidence of fraud on her part……her ‘stupid mistake’ is doesn’t fit the legal definition of ‘intent’. She will cooperate with the RCMP….who will never locate the ‘developer’ and the case will fall into a decade of civil litigation….at more cost to the taxpayer and purchasers.
Furthermore she is ethnic in Toronto, an immigrant, a woman, a visible minority, a lawyer, an officer of the court…etc etc…no way she’ll see a minute of jail time…..not in this country.
Ms Cho will proceed into bankruptcy and likely move to a new city where she will practice undeterred from her past ‘mistakes’……bet on it.
“Just lazy. The Star spent two days spelling the lawyer’s name incorrectly. — Garth”
The Star Staff was probably still high on the giggle juice after writing up Stephen Harper as a ‘sociopath’ and getting it published.
#119 miketheengineer on 08.27.14 at 10:26 am
———————————————–
Ebola will be around for 9 months because of lack of education, misinformation, and rituals and practises of foreign cultures.
It is not airborne, and therefore little chance it can spread through our society.
#102 whitey on 08.27.14 at 12:51 am
Hopefully those people in Toronto get restitution. As for justice, I wouldn’t hold my breath. 13 million buys a lot of legal shelter anywhere in the world.
____________________________________________
Not for Cho though, unless she gets a lawyer to get her off the hook and jumps on a boat to God knows where, some overseas forlorn piece of crap nation that will keep her from being extradited. Probably will happen that way. Its funny how all the crap can get flushed away and just disappear!
#123 GTA house of cards
Funny, I read of no ‘starving children’ in your cited article.
Any parent with 5 children might have a tough time on an ‘average’ salary anywhere these days.
Having children is a choice, and NOT an obligation.
You dummies buying bank shares and crap like that hoping to get rich.
By the land and buildings the bank branches sit on and rent it out to them as a sure road to riches !
Americans have a short memory…
http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/27/news/economy/homeownership-wealth/index.html?iid=Lead
“How to fix wealth inequality
To narrow the wealth gap, low-income families need help becoming homeowners. “
“What I find also interesting is that the Globe as “Closed” comments on the story.”
They often close comments on these types of stories because they tend to invoke a great deal of idiodic racist vitriol. Imagine that on the internet eh?
“Ms Cho will proceed into bankruptcy and likely move to a new city where she will practice undeterred from her past ‘mistakes’……bet on it.”
You can not go bankrupt if a crime is involved. That bankruptcy application will now be on hold.
Glad to see there is some possibility of punishment being meted out on this one. I agree, those reading GF blog aren’t likely those who are most in need of it. Sad, but the world seems to work that way.
#106 Andrew Woburn on 08.27.14 at 2:23 am
“The thing that caught my attention was Avison Young’s contention that city vacancies are now higher than those in the suburbs. I had been under the impression that business was moving downtown to attract millennials. Clearly this is true in the tech sphere but not everybody can be a techie.”
Regarding AV, read it again. What AV meant is that over the past year, DT office vacancy rose faster than Suburban:
“Canada’s downtown markets posted a 7.2% vacancy rate – up 150 bps year-over-year. In contrast, suburban vacancy increased 120 bps to 11.8% as the downtown/suburban vacancy spread narrowed to 460 bps.”
As a rule of thumb, Canadian CRE investors expect a vacancy rate (on office, retail, industrial or Multi-family) of about 5%. US investors usually, I have been told, expect about 10% vacancy when they do their underwriting. When vacancy (at least in MF resi) hits 5%, they build another tower (according to a Yank I was talking to at the real estate forum last year). We call them “Cowboys”. Canadians aren’t as gung-ho because the 1990s recession killed off the Canadian Cowboys, such as O&Y, Trizec and some others.
“You can not go bankrupt if a crime is involved. That bankruptcy application will now be on hold.”
Ms Cho has committed no crime by transferring deposit monies to the erstwhile developer. She would have E&O Insurance for the trust fund. …..and be bonded as a Provincial lawyer. If the money is not in her possession or enrich her unduly she has shown no ‘intent’ to commit a crime….simple. She’s off the hook and probably shopping for a condo in Vancouver by now.
” You dummies buying bank shares and crap like that hoping to get rich.
By the land and buildings the bank branches sit on and rent it out to them as a sure road to riches !”
TD Bank Stock is up over 40% YOY…..what did your house cost you?
@garthturner check out this Russian bank… free cat included in each new mortgage http://kotoservice.ru/ > remember to google translate it > talk about making mortgages an emotional decision
#123 GTA house of cards on 08.27.14 at 11:07 am
“Toronto is a house of cards as children starve due to greedy realtor scum?”
You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make the horse drink… It’s not the realtor’s fault that many families can’t budget their needs (shelter and food) and wants (more expensive shelter).
Just like in the US subprime mortgage business, it takes two parties to make a disastrous mortgage: unscrupulous banker and unscrupulous (or naive) borrower.
Blaming one party without the other doesn’t make much sense.
#146 SealTeam0 (So secret I’m not sure if I exist)
You ignored his racist rant:
“Furthermore she is ethnic in Toronto, an immigrant, a woman, a visible minority, a lawyer, an officer of the court…etc etc…no way she’ll see a minute of jail time…..not in this country.”
In sum, White Conservative men are the true victim of this crime.
#@JimmyJam/#138… #I’llTakeThatBet.
Every now and again, when TheNatives are EspeciallyRestless and the PrivatePolling is ParticularlyGloomy, CircusMaximus’ Management has been known to FeedTheLions.
Just sayin’….
Or, in the ImmortalWords of Smokin’Man… “That’s 5HectoLoonies on Red… and another JD, please.”
Our MagnanimousHost can decide where it’s MostNeeded.
#150 westcoastroller on 08.27.14 at 6:59 pm
targeting some kind of ‘crazy catlady ‘ demographic?
#136 bdy sktrn on 08.27.14 at 2:40 pm…
Agreed the prices are ridiculous in London, as they are in Vancouver.
Having lived in both cities, I might add that on a scale of 1-10 for world class cities, London is likely about 8 whereas Vancouver is lucky to hit a 2.
Then again, who am I to say, I’m retired and sitting in Kelowna!
Garth,
How can you say that the stock market just bounces back within a short period of time. This is not always true. In 2001-2, it took at least a few years to bounce back, and even since the drop of 2011-12, it has taken a couple of years. I think people have to bank on a real risk of a two to three year wait before a pull back comes right back.
That is why one should have a balanced and diversified portfolio, and not a clutch of stocks. — Garth
Stats Can Labour Force Survey NEVER was very reliable
Today Stas Can explained their error.
I am fine with that. Errors are to be expected.
What I found more interesting was details that demonstrate that the thing never EVER had the ability to be accurate more than maybe plus or minus 15,000 jobs at very best.
They say:
Every month, the LFS collects data from a random sample of 56,000 households to obtain data on the labour force. The sample consists of six panels of dwellings. Each panel is contacted on six consecutive months or survey occasions. Every month, the oldest panel is dropped and a new panel is introduced.
Okay… so if the 56,000 households. Say 100,000 jobs at most increase the job count by 1, what is that extrapolated to the population of say 15 million jobs?
It’s 150 jobs… So say the accuracy of the household survey is plus of minus 2%. That’s 2000 jobs plus or minus. Now extrapolated to the population that would be plus or minus 150 times that or 300,000.
Yeah I don’t need a statistical study to tell me you can’t accurately count tiny variations in 15 million or so jobs with this survey.
Just think about it. If you try to count a very large number like 15 million, what is plus or minus 15,000? It’s plus or minus 0.1%, and I just don’t think you get as accurate as plus or minus 0.1% with a survey.
They need to count something more accurate like the number of CPP accounts with active deposits in a month. that should be an exact count. Why are we using a sample here? Just count the income tax or WCB or CPP remittances.