Hater House

HATER modified

The tale of another condo. In a very different city. And a confused one.

Two weeks ago an article appeared in the local Singapore newspaper heralding a 52-storey condo tower which, in four long years from now, may be grafted to one end of the iconic Granville Street bridge in Mouldy City. Called ‘Vancouver House’, the developers are hoping about 40% of the 388 units (priced from $316,000 to several million) will be sold abroad, and the rest to locals. A total of 30 condos, less than 8% of the building, were ‘set aside’ for Singaporean investors.

Cue the outrage.

SING 1 modified

Courtesy, the GreaterFool Singapore Bureau

“In the face of your continuing denial about the “yellow peril” I open my morning paper,” writes Jamie, “and see in the Vancouver newspaper: “Sales of Units in Proposed Vancouver House Tower will Target Asian Markets”. Of course it does no one any good to focus on racial profiling in the Vancouver housing market, but to vehemently deny that it exists (like you do) is asinine.”

Meanwhile the jingoistic local media were busy piling on. The Province reported there was an ‘overwhelming response’ to the Singapore sales effort, ‘far more than expected.’ Meanwhile the meme spread that Asians were getting the first chance to snap up units while Vancouverites were left shivering in their hovels.

Said the newspaper, in the finest tradition of yellow journalism: “Locals may question where buyers are expected to come from, and whether they will live here. “It’s shocking that this building, which has been marketed to us as the iconic Vancouver House, gets sold two months in advance to Asia,” a reader told The Province, in reaction to reports from Singapore. “I wouldn’t call that iconic, I’d call it insulting.” “

Radio piled on, too. On CKNW, Van’s first choice for traffic, weather and rednecks every 10 minutes, commentator Bruce Allen said the condo’s developers, “flew off to Asia to give foreigners the first crack…already news is filtering back that 30-plus units have been sold to offshore buyers before the locals could even buy a one-bedroom. It’s a disgrace. The first thing they should change is the name, to Hong Kong House, or Singapore Sands, or just China House.”

But all this paled to the comments the Van papers published from all the haters.

“Do think it’s finally time to talk about the elephant in the room?: We have been colonized. In five years a staggering percentage of native Vancouverites will be homeless (that’s you and me) and our city will resemble the polluted streets of Hong Kong. The BC Government has sold us out at every turn, flinging the door wide open to foreign investment and the criminal element. Governments at all levels have a fiduciary duty to protect and uphold the interests and welfare of its citizens – not sell us out to the highest bidder. It’s time we grew a backbone and spoke up for our city, our province and our country and reclaim it all,” Lauren Willes wrote.

“Thanks government for once again f##!!!!!! Vancouver up the ass,” said Dave Bawden.

“In Europe and other countries around the world this wouldn’t be tolerated and would no doubt result in riots in their streets. Why is it so hard for life-long Canadians to stand up and fight against this? Residents on the west coast and across Canada are pathetically apathetic and can’t seem to get up off their iPad at Starbucks to protest . Fighting against the wealthy immigrants disintegrating the middle class in the lower mainland is not a hate crime, but rather a fight for the right to continue to live a fair, normal and beautiful lifestyle that is truly Canadian. This is it folks, the time has come. Either you continue to sip on your double macha green tea latte while face-booking your comments and watch our incredible Canadian culture fade away, or you get up and start organizing rallies and protect you and your children’s future,” said Cliff Bremner.

There were dozens and dozens more.

Of course lost in this whipping-up of angst and frenzy over people from away buying condos in an unbuilt tower was the fact the local sales centre opened a month before the first little, hyped-up sales story (above) appeared in Singapore. In addition, anyone can walk into the sales centre at 1140 Howe this weekend and snap up a unit on the 37th floor or above, starting at $1.5 million. The nice young turk, Allan, who tried to sell me an upgraded two-bedroom unit yesterday ($2.278 million, “but the walls are corian, not paint”) said sales are going great.

“Huge interest,” he gushed. “And the buyers are an extraordinarily good cross-section of people. Half the units are being sold here to local buyers, and the rest are coming from the US, international and across Canada.” In fact, VanHouse has sales agents in Toronto, New York, London, Beverly Hills, as well as Tokyo, Shanghai, Taipei and Singapore. Then Allan moved on to probe my interest in a three-bedroom ‘estate home’ on the 53rd floor for $3.8 million.

And what a deal. Only 10% down on signing (that would be $380,000 on the three-banger), with another $570,000 over the next year or so – then the balance when the place goes up, “which will be July of 2018, at the earliest.”

All the units for poor people, selling below $1.5 million, will be available after next week. (Please form a line to the left, and abide by the rules. Queue quietly. Dogs outside. No pee jars in the lobby.)

Seriously, Vancouver House is okay. It’s Vancouver we should worry about. If this thing were going up in Toronto, Montreal or Calgary it’d be seen as prestigious icon of world class residency, aimed at a global market of rich people who then need $140,000 cars for tooling around in and hand bags worth five grand. You can resent people with more than you, or go and get some of it. And the locals are always welcome to buy, today, on the 53rd floor.

The xenophobia and hating rampant in Van these days is the ugly weed growing from the fetid ooze of economic stress caused by an out-of-control real estate market. But as I’ve shown in the past statistically, foreigners didn’t do this. They account for a small fraction of overall sales, as in Toronto and Montreal. When over 90% of transactions are done by locals in a city where average SFD homes trade for over $1 million, guess who’s to blame?

Van incomes are 30% less than in Toronto, where properties are cheaper, yet six times as many people live. No wonder personal savings rates are lower, debt is higher and prejudice is mainstream. Locals are real estate obsessed. Housing risk is off the chart.

Someone should warn Singapore.

184 comments ↓

#1 Cici on 08.01.14 at 4:12 pm

Great post Garth…way to set the record straight!

#2 Derek R on 08.01.14 at 4:15 pm

This? Again? Oh boy…

#3 raisemyrent on 08.01.14 at 4:15 pm

good piece. I live just up the road. Did you check out their sales centre, I mean, Gesamtkunstwerk?
Any info on City involvement? I can’t recall where I read that, and I’d be worried of the City (late, as ever) backing up a project that might debut in the midst of a real estate “landing”, wasting our tax dollars a la Olympic Village.

#4 gladiator on 08.01.14 at 4:20 pm

The best indicator of this invasion would be the percentage of houses bought for cash in Vancouver. A small part of this percentage would be the locals – lottery winners, people downgrading and high-income earners. The rest I’d say are foreigners.

#5 Josef on 08.01.14 at 4:23 pm

FIRST!!! OH YEAH BABY!!! Hey Ladies, this one is for you!!!

#6 Tinky Winky on 08.01.14 at 4:24 pm

I just returned from a visit to Vancouver, my home for many years before being seduced by the $$ of Calgary.

There is no denying the growing Asian presence.

Even my girlfriend, HK Chinese, and former Van resident, has commented on the significant growth in mainland Chinese in the city in just a handful of years.
I don’t subscribe to the notion that they are the only factor in the market run-up, but without a doubt they are playing a bigger role than I think you give them credit for. Not necessarily BECAUSE they’re Asian, but due to the fact that outsize population growth always puts upward pressure on real estate prices.

I would say that with so many participants in the buy your Canadian passport being wealthy Asians drawn to Vancouver, that the desirable areas ARE being significantly impacted by offshore buyers.

#7 raisemyrent on 08.01.14 at 4:28 pm

I couldn’t resist commenting on my fellow Vancouverites (most of us come from elsewhere; food for thought there).
OK, so a portion of the units went for insane money to foreigners (assume). Great; don’t pay that much for the rest of the building! Time and again a few people are blamed for the overall prices that idiots line up to pay. Own up to your own decisions. If you are truly “priced out”, then don’t buy. The prices would come down if nobody did.

Also, have they even seen Singapore? Hard to believe people would move here from there. Probably just a place to stay when visiting (read: doing business in North America).

#8 TO Renter on 08.01.14 at 4:32 pm

In a story featuring an interview with Vancouver House developer Ian Gillespie, the South China Morning Post noted the building will have an “asset management” program for absentee owners, with staff periodically turning on taps and appliances in unoccupied units.
——–
At least they fully understand their target market.

#9 Andy on 08.01.14 at 4:35 pm

The Govt has lost the backbone really……
Is this not a kind of corruption….
Glad I am living on rent which increased by just 0.8% for me yesterday for another year.

#10 Happy Renting on 08.01.14 at 4:36 pm

Any recording of a pre-build condo flogger trying to sell you a unit must be the funniest thing in the world.

#11 Deep Blue on 08.01.14 at 4:38 pm

It reminds me of when I came back from doing some tech work in silicon valley and was looking for a job in Van. First place I interviewed with seriously offered me a position in the mid 60s, versus the previous contract work in SV paying 150K USD, plus overtime. I bet the Singaporeans, who have a real economy, don’t realize what a fantasy land the whole place is. Unless your working for the government or involved in RE in Van, your wasting your time.

#12 Exiled on 08.01.14 at 4:40 pm

Sir Garth: As I said before, The Black Swan Event!

#13 Italians love real estate on 08.01.14 at 4:44 pm

“Van incomes are 30% less than Toronto where properties are cheaper yet six times the number of people live”

Exactly correct and why GTA prices for RE will move much , much higher. !!

#14 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.01.14 at 4:50 pm

Welcome to planet earth. We have 150 million km2 of land. We have 7 billion people.

Jobs flow to the lowest cost labour. Condos can be sold to the highest priced buyer. You’re competing on a global scale, best to start adjusting and factoring that in, it’s not new.

Is this subsidized housing by the government using local tax payer money? Not sure what the issue is, other than no one seems to be lacking in a sense of entitlement (aka I am more deserving of something than you because…).

The planet has bigger issues to worry about. Perspective people.

You are just a bear for punishment bringing this tired topic up again…

#15 Deep Blue on 08.01.14 at 4:54 pm

Another good story.

About twenty years ago I took a job at a small scientific instrument company in Van making mass spectroscopy equipment. It paid next to nothing, but it was fun. The owner recruited our new president from Boston, but there was some unsettled issue about his compensation package. When it all ended, I guess it wasn’t good enough, because our new president stayed one day on the job and then went back to Boston. Vancouver isn’t a serious city for serious people. Never has been, never will be.

#16 High Plains Drifter on 08.01.14 at 5:07 pm

“Gone With the Wind” is on the T V. I would have to take a bet Garth Turner constitutionally could not read the book the movie was based on. Something to do with cognitive dissidence and falling real estate values.

#17 Deep Blue on 08.01.14 at 5:12 pm

It’s often noted that although Van and its nearest neighbour, Seattle, have approximately the same population, Seattle manages to have a substantial higher GNP than Van, not counting money laundering or the illicit drug business, where Van is generally assumed to be a leader.

#18 Mark on 08.01.14 at 5:12 pm

It would be really, really nice if there actually was meaningful ‘foreign investment’ in BC/Vancouver. It would lift the boats of salaries, income, and would reduce overall leverage if it actually came in the form of equity, and not merely investment in debt.

But the fact is, the amount of “investment” that the RE pumpers claim is happening, simply could not occur in isolation.

Now that RE is falling in Vancouver, Toronto, and Calgary (over the past year), it could get very interesting as the local speculators, driving the bubble with subprime CMHC credit, are forced to increasingly unload.

#19 Hmmm... on 08.01.14 at 5:14 pm

Vancouverites having a problem with this should move across the mountains to Alberta… More income and housing is almost free based on your standards … LOL

#20 Effluence greasy on 08.01.14 at 5:15 pm

Geez, the other day it was entre-deux-railroad-tracks, and today’s feature is à côté de bridge overpass. All the decent locations taken?

Yeah, they’ll be selling a lot of these in Beverly Hills. What wealthy Californian doesn’t wake up and say “I want a place half the size where it rains half the year!”

Same price as Garth’s selection, but in Beverly hills with huge terraces and all the Rococo you can swallow:
http://www.trulia.com/property/3031904191-9950-Durant-Dr-PH-Beverly-Hills-CA-90212

#21 Nomad on 08.01.14 at 5:16 pm

Is a permanent resident counted as a non-foreigner?

I read that it can take only 2 months to become a permanent resident. That could explain why stats show few foreigners are buying real-estate here: you come here, get your permanent resident status, then buy real-estate.

Who knows if there’s a lot of cases like that.
Need more data.

#22 Teacher's Ass-istant on 08.01.14 at 5:16 pm

My first question would be how do you have a freehold apartment building condo? I get how it works with townhouses but how can it be in a 52 storey building? I suppose if no maintenance is none or any cleaning. Maybe they come with repelling equipment so you can do those high up outside repairs yourself.

Corian on the walls? One of my guitars came with a corian nut I took it off and replaced it with Tusq after the second time I tuned it.

How many did you buy?

Oh yeah and do you have a link for that comment section? They seem to have some different conspiracy theories over there than the ones I’ve read here. Smoking Dimwit is still pushing the 9/11 nonsense.

#23 Pre-Retiree on 08.01.14 at 5:17 pm

Great post again.
However, this conversation about HAM is getting tedious. No matter how much needed money is brought into Canada by foreigners, it does not provide an excuse for Canadians to spend their money foolishly, for example, in real estate at peak in a low interest environement, in things they don’t need, and in underwater car loans. I hope this subject dies soon.

#24 Deep Blue on 08.01.14 at 5:26 pm

Vancouver – its Canada Miami Beach, with Asians replacing Latinos, both who think they’ve found paradise. But for the people who grew up there, it makes you wonder what they see that you don’t. It’s worth a couple of million to have a box in the sky – glad you think so, cause the only point of the place now is to sell RE to people like you.

#25 debtified on 08.01.14 at 5:30 pm

When the cost of an equally livable sailboat with the same square footage in Vancouver is cheaper than a condo you know you have a problem. Purchase price is lower (imagine that!), moorage fee is practically the same as condo fee and there is no property tax. Plus you can change your waterfront view as you wish. Once this boom turns into a bust, one could argue that a condo depreciated more than a boat.

I have seen this boom start in the early 2000s as my view of Coal Harbour from the other side of West Georgia was slowly blocked out by the new condos. This is not the fault of foreigners. This is the fault of Canadians.

I like my changing views these days. This long weekend it’ll be the Sunshine Coast out my window.

#26 mic on 08.01.14 at 5:39 pm

@16 High Plains Drifter

“Cognitive dissidence” or ” cognitive dissonance”? I’m pretty sure you meant the latter but it would probably be wise not to use the former in the wrong context.

Cringe. ;-)

#27 Nomad on 08.01.14 at 5:40 pm

This is the best business/factual insight into our real-estate market.

Genworth has lowest loss ratio in seven years -12 percent: http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/8/2/housing-future-generally-good-says-countrys-largest-private-mortgage-insurer.aspx

#28 Smoking on 08.01.14 at 5:42 pm

http://dyslexicsmokingman.blogspot.ca/

Might be my last post, I think this was a mistake

Perhaps storm chasing on Lake Ontario a bad idea in a 20 ft boat… This one’s a beast…

Waves are getting big see yah…

#29 Alberta Ed on 08.01.14 at 5:48 pm

The Province isn’t a real newspaper. It used to be, a long, long time ago. It isn’t, now.

#30 Van By The River on 08.01.14 at 5:52 pm

Re: freehold condo, that’s in contrast to the great many condo buildings in Vancouver which are on leasehold land owned by either the city, an Indian band, the federal government, or whomever else… Not sure if UBC is in on that.

Another reason “everybody” buying in Vancouver is from away is the implicit immigrant “option”. Lever up like crazy and if it works, fantastic. If it doesn’t, get out of dodge and they’ll never collect on the debt. See Dubai.

I’m BC born with multiple passports and I’ve certainly run into a few people with many millions of property who know what they’re doing.

#31 Carly in Cabbagetown on 08.01.14 at 5:55 pm

Geez Garth, you’ve given yet another cue for Ralph Cramdown and his ilk to come on and give further weak and circumlocutious defenses for their thinly veiled racism and Asian-hatred.

Over to you Ralph et. al…..time to justify why, when it comes to your own bigotry, “it’s different this time…”

I’m off for the weekend – have a good one everybody :)

#32 Retired Boomer - WI on 08.01.14 at 5:59 pm

Good post Garth. Made me smile. Well stated.

#33 waiting on the west coast on 08.01.14 at 6:29 pm

#7 raisemyrent

I totally agree. But forget being priced out… if the fundamentals aren’t there, why bother buying?

#21 Nomad

Of course Genworth looks good right now… everything has been heading the right way. Countrywide looked like an amazing deal for Bank of America until it nearly buried them a couple of years later.

#34 Sheane Wallace on 08.01.14 at 6:29 pm

this country has some of the stupidest people on earth.

#35 takla on 08.01.14 at 6:49 pm

Of course Foreigners didn’t do this on their own,but opening up our local market to millionair buyers{rich immigrant jump the que program on condition of lending the Canadian gov low interest mega loans}sure pushed the prices into nose bleed territory!Not up on the exact stats but large numbers of these weathy immigrants used this program to access Canada and Vancouver ,many initialy started up in the Toronto area as well , most eventually found their way to Vancouver.
last few yrs we have seen the advent of bidding wars{weathy immigrant vs debted to the max vancouverites} drive the prices up due to the deep pockets of the well healed immigrant home buyers,once started the prices have only gone up.Of course this doesn’t represent every realestate transaction,but once price escalation is entrenched it will go on till it doesn’t.Meanwhile those house horny among us start the whineing as they watch their dreams evapourate .

On another note ,Speaking of till it doesn’t,as the fed continued its taper yesterday we see a direct correlation in the market drop,helped along by a less then great NFP number.If yellen continues with this taper this housing situation will correct quicker than anyone can imagine.

#36 this just in on 08.01.14 at 6:50 pm

David Frum questions authenticity of (obviously fake)media photos of Gaza-

http://fakeologist.com/

then later, he apologizes-

http://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2014/07/an-apology-on-the-images-emerging-from-gaza/375324/

(insert your own joke here)

#37 Robbie on 08.01.14 at 6:51 pm

Got the latest statement from the BC Teachers’ Pension Plan. Plan made 14.6% return in 2013 and has averaged a 7.6% return over the past 10 years. Perhaps some of those commenters who doubt Garth’s comments about a balanced portfolio returning over a 7% average the past ten years will now believe him…probably not, I suspect they’ll just ignore my comment. :)

#38 Shawn on 08.01.14 at 6:55 pm

Financial Freedom 40 at 14 laments:

Jobs flow to the lowest cost labour.

***************************************

You mean to say that labour is being paid what the market will bear? That supply and demand is working? That if someone offered to do the same work as a lower price THEY get the job?

Say it isn’t so…

#39 Shawn on 08.01.14 at 6:57 pm

Actually reading again, Financial Freedom is not lamenting how free markets work. He is suggesting people get over it. I agree.

#40 Son of Ponzi on 08.01.14 at 6:57 pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/in-vancouver-race-undercuts-the-discussion-on-affordability/article19873510/

#41 S on 08.01.14 at 7:03 pm

I really don’t care who buys the properties. If HAM is even partly responsible for the insane RE valuations in Vancouver consider what native Mexicans or Belizeans must feel toward “wealthy” Canadians and Americans buying properties in their neck of woods and in the process driving RE prices to levels beyond the reach of natives. That’s how it rolls…
Garth, I personally know of two properties on a single block in North Van selling to foreigners as a result of a “knock on the door.” These were not listed. When you quote your stats do you take these types of transactions into account?

#42 Landlord on 08.01.14 at 7:04 pm

Asians from what I notice study harder, worker longer smarter and harder and save and invest wisely! From what I’ve noticed about generational Canadians and I am one of them(not all), however a majority don’t like to study or work long and hard or save and invest wisely and spend more than they make! And have a major sense of entitlement ! Now do who should have the rewards? Food for thought for the lazy people !

#43 Son of Ponzi on 08.01.14 at 7:10 pm

#38
You mean to say that labour is being paid what the market will bear? That supply and demand is working? That if someone offered to do the same work as a lower price THEY get the job?
——————
Shawn,
There are dentists in Vancouver who charge you much less than the average dentist.
As long as you don’t mind them working out of their basement.
Remember, you only get what you pay for.

#44 Son of Ponzi on 08.01.14 at 7:13 pm

By the way, Shawn.
Markets are down, how’s you Net Worth.

#45 Goldie on 08.01.14 at 7:16 pm

Bruce Allen tells it like it is. Crusty Clarke almost had him fired over his opinions on CKNW when she was still a hostess on that station.

#46 HogtownIndebted on 08.01.14 at 7:19 pm

On a different note, anyone wondering how many people are heading to cottage country this weekend?

Me too. Then I came across this.

Not many, it appears.

Businesses are reporting commerce is down by 25%.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/08/01/cool_summer_slowing_business_in_parts_of_cottage_country.html

I was struck by these statements:

“There’s a whole pile of issues here, and it’s kind of like talking about a bad relative — nobody likes to admit to it,” he says.

Buchanan has been lock master for 14 years.

…and…

“For the day tripper, the weather makes a big difference, and for our business certainly, if it’s a rainy day there’s nobody going through the locks — but as far as the overall economy, I think there are a lot of other issues.”

He says higher prices, more holiday options and the changing cottager clientele are also having an impact.
“Now you certainly can go to Dominican for a lovely holiday a lot cheaper than you can go to Muskoka,” he says. “What maybe has killed it bigger [than the weather] is making the average person in the city feel that Muskoka can’t be afforded.”
————————————————-

Hmm…that sounds familiar, reminds me of Garth’s comments about house prices and income levels.

So…… veteran locals say that cottage country is unaffordable.

Weather has been nice overall, a bit cooler, but not very rainy. The answer’s not there.

Real estate listings have exploded, with thousands of properties at prices more like midtown Toronto houses.

Newer Canadians in the GTA, about 50% of total population, have very little interest or history in cottage country. Ask them. I often do.

Boats are very hard to sell as well it appears. Trailer campgrounds are filled with listings for trailers with lovely “Florida rooms”. (And neighbours who stop drinking, religiously, every dawn. Until noon.)

Together, spending on such things is a coal mine canary if there ever was one. People are quick to drop such expenditures and try to exit when money is tight elsewhere. This looks rather ominous.

I would not be surprised at all to see cottage country prices down by 30-35% by September 2015, leading the downward drop. This does not look good at all.

—————-

On an urban footing, I have been tallying up my daily real estate sold reports over the last few weeks. This week shows a significant shift in the three or four areas I follow, home to those popular $500K-$1M slanty semis and shacks.

Today for example, the number of homes sold below asking in my sample of under one hundred is at 76%. This trend has been going on for two weeks now.

That’s quite a shift from one month ago, when almost all sold at or slightly above ask.

#47 Freedom First on 08.01.14 at 7:29 pm

Never mind the immigrants to Canada as that’s been happening since forever. The thought I just had reading Garth’s Blog today, is, with house prices having escalated to magnificent highs in Canada, and not having yet experienced the housing crashes in so many countries world wide in recent years, I bet that if you don’t count the debt Canadians are in, but only their assets, (RE for example:) that we have more millionaires per capita than any country in the world. However, remember that leverage is a bit$h when an a$$et drops in equity. Good thing we live in Canada, where RE prices are pure gold. Oh wait……………..

#48 Son of Ponzi on 08.01.14 at 7:35 pm

#46
I’ve been tracking sales of Townhouses in Richmond for the last 8 weeks.
Then trend is clear. Almost no sellers are getting asking anymore.
This week, all sales were at least 5% below asking.

#49 Mister Obvious on 08.01.14 at 7:37 pm

I wonder. Are Bruce Allen and Don Cherry actually the same person?

#50 Van Isle Renter on 08.01.14 at 7:44 pm

B.C. has bigger problems than HAM. The larger issue, as a recent Global segment pointed out, is WEED. Now that Washington state has legalized marijuana, Global reported that pot prices have crashed by 50% and that they expect this to have serious consequences to the local economy.

I kid you not. They ran this story. Talk about a Black Swan event!

#51 james on 08.01.14 at 7:46 pm

I’d be really interested to see some research (or even an interview) on why a wealthy investor from Singapore would be investing in a condo in Vancouver.

Do they really think that there is much room for appreciation?

Methinks most Asians with money are not fools. I can see why they are buying in Bellevue, but not in Vancouver. There are no jobs in Vancouver, and the average joe can barely pay living costs let alone save anything.

#52 Smoking Man on 08.01.14 at 7:51 pm

This is how I see the geo political world…

Russia backs Iran and Syria, Isreal was getting no where trying to get the USA act against Syria, then long term go after Iran.

Mh17 part of the big picture.. Get Russia involved.. They didn’t.

Plan B

Now Gaza getting blown to smithereens had a goal.. Get either Syria, or Iran to get so pissed that they do something, then Isreal can nuke Iran and one on Damascus, oops.

In fact, if they listen to putin and do nothing against Isreal, then Isreal will have buryed it self so deep in world wide hatred it won’t recover….

They have pushed an all in hand, hoping for an attack against it self, to justify the vaporization of its enemies.

Regardless, the war won’t end in Gaza…. If it does, Isreal is doomed… I wouldn’t be surprised at a false flag attack in Isreal if non of Palestine friends act.

I suggest no vacations in Iran….

#53 omg on 08.01.14 at 8:03 pm

#13 Italians love real estate
“Van incomes are 30% less than Toronto where properties are cheaper yet six times the number of people live” Exactly correct and why GTA prices for RE will move much , much higher. !!
—————————-

At least nobody can accuse you of overthinking things!

BTW San Diego must be a screaming deal – 30% less than Toronto.

#54 omg on 08.01.14 at 8:19 pm

#50 Van Isle Renter

Global reported that pot prices have crashed by 50% and that they expect this to have serious consequences to the local economy.
———————-

There will be lot fewer $70,000 F150s being driven by 27 year olds in Langford.

#55 Mark on 08.01.14 at 8:30 pm

“Do they really think that there is much room for appreciation?”

Good point, the people who are blaming “Asians” or “HAM” for RE prices rising have a real hard time answering that one usually. They demand that we believe that some of the thriftiest and shrewdest business people in the world, the Chinese, suddenly will throw all caution to the wind and buy Canadian RE as an ‘investment’.

The evidence is fairly clear, little to no “foreign money” is actually coming to Canada. The market is being levitated nearly entirely by domestic investment, largely through CMHC subprime credit. A significant reduction in CMHC subprime credit being available corresponded with an apex in the Canadian housing market last year. Prices on identical properties have been in decline in the major centres (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto) ever since. Although the significant change in the ‘sale mix’ has allowed Realtors to make, at least temporarily, the claim that the prices of the product they happen to be selling are still modestly rising.

#56 Mark on 08.01.14 at 8:34 pm

“I bet that if you don’t count the debt Canadians are in, but only their assets, (RE for example:) that we have more millionaires per capita than any country in the world.”

Keep in mind that the ‘assets’ of many of those Canadian “millionaires”, particularly the elderly, are highly comprised of those mortgages.

As RE continues its over-year-long path of deflation, so eventually will the real value of those mortgages, GICs, etc. It can even be argued that a bubble in the bond/GIC/mortgage market is what has created the housing bubble. They are correlated and both eventually will face liquidation.

#57 Mean Gene on 08.01.14 at 8:39 pm

CKNW, the bitch, whine and bellyache radio station.

#58 waiting on 08.01.14 at 8:40 pm

Corian walls? Do you get a choice of colour?
Or do you have to paint them? ha ha

I’m starting a small business – who am I going to sell too? Pretty much anyone with money.

#59 Italians love real estate on 08.01.14 at 9:17 pm

#53 OMG –

Yes no need to over think the run away bull market for GTA RE. It has been a slam dunk win for buyers and those who have over thought the risks are still in basements lamenting.

As for San Diego , San Jose , San who gives a f$&@, I don’t know or care what the RE markets are like there. I know that the GTA has defied all bear arguments for its decline.

Nothing on the near horizon that will change above

#60 rainclouds on 08.01.14 at 9:31 pm

Build it. We need more subsidized by owner rental units with views.

PS pretty sure the Italians who live IN ITALY are not nearly as enamoured about RE as the scientist who posts here several times a day.

#61 NostyVlad the Snugglebombed on 08.01.14 at 9:31 pm

#52 Smoking Man on 08.01.14 at 7:51 pm — “They have pushed an all in hand, hoping for an attack against it self, to justify the vaporization of its enemies.”

Is it time to expect the unexpected? What if all the fierce aggression by Israel blows up in its face? The scene from Blazing Saddles, where Mongo receives a package from the sheriff which promptly blows up in his face comes to mind.

#126 Entrepreneur on 08.01.14 at 4:18 pm — “So, why are our government meddling with our lives? Is it to keep up the ponzi system or is it something bigger? Is it to keep everyone calm, on the quiet side?”

Like the SPP and TPP (which most seem to have forgotten), this, along with the implementation of the NAU is a reasonable suggestion (no more borders). Psychological warfare is one of the tools TPTB use, and Ebola may be just that — psychological warfare on sheeples, such as here, but Monsanto may, surprisingly benefit from this.

#62 X on 08.01.14 at 9:36 pm

Does the US gov’t track foreign property owners? Our gov’t doesn’t, they leave that optional for the RE floggers, but perhaps it would be a good stat for the gov’t to track.

It sure would put an end to this debate….

#63 sm_yyc on 08.01.14 at 9:42 pm

isn’t the immigrant investor program dead? who would in their sane mind want to lock their money without getting residency??????

#64 Mark on 08.01.14 at 9:45 pm

“I know that the GTA has defied all bear arguments for its decline.

Nothing on the near horizon that will change above

Really? Why have prices been declining in the GTA for the past year?

#65 Son of Ponzi on 08.01.14 at 10:02 pm

For your info.
All RE in China is Leasehold only.
That’s why Canadian RE is so attractive to them.

#66 Son of Ponzi on 08.01.14 at 10:07 pm

#62 X on 08.01.14 at 9:36 pm
Does the US gov’t track foreign property owners? Our gov’t doesn’t, they leave that optional for the RE floggers, but perhaps it would be a good stat for the gov’t to track.
It sure would put an end to this debate….
——————
Sorry, can’t do that. Canada is a very tolerant country.
Implementing such measures would be deemed racist.

#67 Effluence greasy on 08.01.14 at 10:34 pm

#31 Carly in Cabbagetown — “Over to you Ralph et. al…..time to justify why, when it comes to your own bigotry, “it’s different this time…”

I see you’re working your way through the complete collection…
https://bookofbadarguments.com/?view=allpages

Me, I like some of the quotes from the article mentioned in #40. But they’re probably just self-hating Asians, right?

#68 45north on 08.01.14 at 10:44 pm

Vancouver House is going to built in Vancouver. I had to re-read your post to get the picture.

Waiting on the West Coast : Of course Genworth looks good right now… everything has been heading the right way. Countrywide looked like an amazing deal

Countrywide – I haven’t heard about them for years – Angelo Mozilla wasn’t it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Mozilo

Brian Hurley is smooth. Très smooth. But you notice he’s raising the cash on hand. You know just in case.

Hogtown : On a different note, anyone wondering how many people are heading to cottage country this weekend?

I just got back from Sundridge Ontario. The cottages were built by the men returning from the Second World War. It’s a different age now. I cannot get over the massive investment the Ontario Government has made in Highway 11. It’s truly monumental! Colossal rock cuts just for a side road! The traffic I saw does not justify the expense. Not even close. Meanwhile back in the GTA, the Gardiner needs to be rebuilt and another subway is needed.

Smoking Man : I suggest no vacations in Iran

thanks for the tip

Mark : Now that RE is falling in Vancouver, Toronto, and Calgary (over the past year), it could get very interesting as the local speculators, driving the bubble with subprime CMHC credit, are forced to increasingly unload.

the speculators are self-aware and they will unload but the most aren’t and they won’t

#69 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.01.14 at 10:55 pm

@#13 Italians Love Real Estate

Yo Pisano.
When you travel back to Italy do you introduce yourself as an Italian or a canuck?
Me-thinks its the latter since you was probably born in Scarberia….

As for “Vancouver House”.
Who cares about another hideous “work of art” that is only marketable offshore.

I particularly love the design of a top heavy, 52 storey building on the edge of a shallow, tsunami scoured creek built in an earthquake zone that is overdue for the “Big One”.

I’ll keep renting in Burnaby at the 500ft above sea level and wait for the new water front property.
Gotta luv those hypenated-canadians

#70 Smoking Man on 08.01.14 at 11:00 pm

Moody Blues at Seneca tomorrow night, you all know for this event, I will dip into my bag of goodies at my po box in Buffalo..

Garth do not post anything I say after 10pm..

Less of course it’s love notes to humanity,, unlikely.

#71 KommyKim on 08.01.14 at 11:55 pm

RE: #50 Van Isle Renter on 08.01.14 at 7:44 pm
The larger issue, as a recent Global segment pointed out, is WEED. Now that Washington state has legalized marijuana, Global reported that pot prices have crashed by 50% and that they expect this to have serious consequences to the local economy

Which is ridiculous of coarse. The price of the legal weed in Washington state is HIGHER than the illegal stuff in BC and Washington.

#72 Joe Anderson on 08.02.14 at 12:00 am

Garth, you’re a good man for shining a bright light on the issue of anti-Asian racism in Vancouver. It’s not just the weather that is dank, dark, and moldy, it’s some people’s way of thinking that could be described that way, too. I’m white and on my mother’s side my family has been in BC since before it joined Confederation. I grew up with Asians, went to elementary, high school, and university with them, have done business with them, and made friends with them. In fact, I hesitate to use the term “them” as “they” are as much a part of the fabric of our society as “us”. Like everyone else, they have varied reasons for being here, but I guarantee colonization isn’t one of them. Maybe living their lives and raising their families in a safe and secure place is one of the reasons. I hope people inclined to xenophobia can step back and reflect on their attitudes honestly, and then make a conscious decision to do better.

#73 Tom from Mississauga on 08.02.14 at 12:10 am

In Ontario we want foreigners to come play Falls View casino. Don’t British Columbians want foreigners to play the Vancouver casino?

#74 NFN_NLN on 08.02.14 at 12:14 am

#42 Landlord on 08.01.14 at 7:04 pm
Asians from what I notice study harder, worker longer smarter and harder and save and invest wisely!

Whoa, whoa. If you’re going to rattle off bigotry let’s at least be fair and balanced. You should also mention the other stereo types: terrible drivers and small dicks for starters. The last one you should be personally well aware of…

#75 jack the lad on 08.02.14 at 12:28 am

Where’s Doug Collins when we need him most…

#76 clos on 08.02.14 at 1:00 am

I wrote Real estate reporter about IReland and to my surprise she actually wrote an article it came out today
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/canada-better-served-learning-from-the-housing-crash-in-ireland/article19815811/
—-Original Message—–
From: Clos
Sent: July-18-14 7:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Real estate

Hi Tara,
I would like to share some observations with you in hope you may be able to share with others if you see value in what I share with you. Our experience right now has parallels with Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubble especially chilling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fm9HUIcnwM at 7:15 they study and say that never in the history of housing cycles has there been a soft landing. Please take a look and you still start to see some scary parallels with Ireland. I would love it if you could write about this as I think as a journalist you can present alternatives.

#77 infratime on 08.02.14 at 1:45 am

the easy solution….build bridges/causeways to Vancouver island and the sunshine coast……spread the wealth, and the infrastructure….

#78 Exurban on 08.02.14 at 3:42 am

isn’t the immigrant investor program dead? who would in their sane mind want to lock their money without getting residency??????

The cadres of the Chinese Communist Party who have stolen money from state-owned enterprises. Thousands of these have bought RE in Vancouver (and Australia and California) since 2000. They are very different from the Hong Kong RE investment wave of the 1990s.

I rarely listen to CKNW because they are so liberal they sound like a second CBC. The only good content on there is Bruce Allen’s Reality Check, but I usually get it from the Audio Vault. BTW Bruce Allen has made enough money to buy whatever real estate he wants so you can hardly write him off a frustrated loser.

#79 jane24 on 08.02.14 at 4:44 am

So easy to fix.

If the govt charged 75% RE speculation tax on house sales by non-residents, then end of problem. I believe it is currently a 25% hold-back on sales proceeds from non-residents.

But they don’t act, so the question is why not?

It is obvious that housing is being held in Cdn major cities by non-resident speculators from around the world, not just Asia. This will lead to both homelessness for folk who do make Canada their FT home and social unrest/prejudice. Both unfortunate results from this low tax policy.

I have family and friends in Canada, all regular open-minded folk but they are now very angry that their own children are shut out of their own home cities by cascades of unchecked global cash.

So why does the govt not act to protect the future of their own citizens, I really can’t figure this one out. Other nations protect their residents’ interests’ first.

The Canadians citizens are voters, the outside speculators are not.

It is possible Canadians to be too nice for your own good.

#80 observer on 08.02.14 at 4:45 am

One thing the most Canadian Sheeples don’t understand is How can you compete with the Asians. They are smart and know how to work the system

Dad works in asia (hk, singapore) pays about a straight 15% in taxes
Plus they make twice as much as here

In canada the poor pays 22% in taxes to 14% in taxes for everything else. If you make over 50G you up to 40% to normal 14% in taxes if you make upwards. Your taxes are probably in the 50% range.

How can you compete.
Plus most of them let their wives live here, to get the kids free education, health etc. and probably claim for social assistance because they don’t really have income here, cause the money is made offshore. Reaping all the Canadian benefits and probably paying very little in taxes.

The first time I seen this was years ago two different single asian women (I use to party with) were taking care of the relatives 14 yr old kid here. The kids parents were working in singapore sending money here, But the kid caregiver, didn’t work and was just taking care of the kids and was living large.But was also given social assistance housing and the whole social assistance works)

Later on I met more single ladies with the same scenerio.

Goes to show, you give freebies, there is always someone out there who will show up to reap the benefits.

Asians aren’t the only ones: how about people with million dollar houses but goes to the food banks to make ends meet. Something is not quite right here

#81 Italians love real estate on 08.02.14 at 7:10 am

#60 rainclouds- you are somewhat correct about Italians in Italy though owning land ,primarily a farm there highly regarded.

#64 mark and #69 crowdedelevatorfartz.

Why do you think you display the animosity and anger at any post that goes against your bearish views on the topic at hand?

Yup , you guessed it.

#82 MEANWHILE IN FRANCE on 08.02.14 at 7:13 am

Great read.

That’s very much in tune with the French thrashing the “wealthy Brits” buying up their precious home land and drafty mansions.

Except here in SW France you can still pick up a shack like this for under 100.00 bucks/sqft:

http://theceliachusband.blogspot.fr/2012/03/la-maison.html

#83 Catalyst on 08.02.14 at 9:11 am

Shark by Tara Reid is coming out. Following the smashing success of Sharknado 2: the second one. The economy is doing great!

#84 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 11:20 am

@#81 Italian-Canadians Love Real Estate

Well I owned but now I rent because unlike you, my fellow Canadian of Italian heritage.
I actually listen to the valid points Garth has made.

Just call me mangia-cake, pisano……

#85 Macrath on 08.02.14 at 11:21 am

#82 MEANWHILE IN FRANCE

J`aime beaucoup la Republique, Probleme est $cdn en Euro.
Les banque son des voleurs , 5% de ma pension sur le taux d`echange. Ce n`ais pas endurable pour moi.

Comment fair~ SVP

#86 Joe2.0 on 08.02.14 at 11:26 am

42-good point.
The house we rent in North Van has also been approached by foriegn buyers(Chinese)
But it’s already owned by Chinese, living in China.
There has to be a shadow market there.
I thought De Nile was in Egypt.

#87 Son of Ponzi on 08.02.14 at 11:32 am

Very topical:
http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Douglas+Todd+floating+life+affluent+transnational/10083574/story.html

#88 Recipe on 08.02.14 at 12:01 pm

Recipe for Fowl Resentment: (serves many)
This is a regional dish but can be found in many places.

Put “Birds Of A Feather…” into large mixing bowl.

Add
– at least one more different fowl (of your choice);
– two heaped spoonsful of NIMBYism;
– a large slice of language barrier, and
– a generous measure of “secret” sauce;
– a dash of cultural differences.

Gradually mix ingredients together in bowl. Allow time for ingredients to blend together.

If recipe is not to your liking, try another mixing bowl.

Alwyn

#89 Alex n Calgary on 08.02.14 at 12:16 pm

Oh Garth! the pain hath struck is again! on our 4th rental now in 5years, after being booted by the old timer BC folks who came back to occupy our rental house, this new place is owned by a flight early 50’s woman who is just a typical amatuer landlord with hardly a clue of what shes doing. Now its unreasonable requests and mild threats to sign documents of inspection she failed to do on move in.

You know its the cycle here. Properties are going up way too fast, people see this, and buy investment properties or just keep their first house they bought at 22yrs old. You rent from these morons, hate your life as you are harassed by them, or the house is put up for sale, or is demolished to make way for a new duplex, or is re-occupied as BC economy tanks, all happened to us. Then people say “screw this” and buy a house to get out of the cycle, but they contribute to making it worse.

There are simply no houses under 450k that aren’t on the outskirts of the city now, our friends went through a bidding war on a place 4 months ago that was a mere 360k on the edge of the city. But we still see houses listed, then go down, then listed, then go down, then change realty company, rinse repeat, its so hard to keep track of the properties, just by seeing for sale signs really.

The cycle is killing us, moving is a mammoth effort for us, 2 dogs, motorcycles, cars, truck, couches, but houses are totally nuts, interest rates are ultra low, whats a calgary person to doooooo!

#90 Linda Mulligan on 08.02.14 at 1:15 pm

Garth, right on with your comment about resentment of those who are perceived as having something the rest do not. The only difficulty I can see in your advice about going to get some of it is that a lot of people seem to think the way to do that is to take ‘it’ from someone else, instead of getting the same thing for themselves. For evidence, all you need do is refer to defined benefit pension plans. Those without seen to think that the best way to deal with DB members is to take that benefit away from them, rather than standing up & demanding from their own employers the same benefit. Or better yet, demanding that CPP be enriched (by higher contributions, sorry, no free lunch) so that the universal defined benefit plan that is CPP actually pays enough to keep one from doing the dumpster dive upon retirement. Pity we didn’t have the collective wisdom to double up CPP benefits & contributions 30+ years ago, then this looming retirement ‘crisis’ when a large group of aged individuals will be applying for GIS on top of CPP would not be an issue or a big expense for government (taxpayer) dollars.

#91 Mister Obvious on 08.02.14 at 1:40 pm

#89 Alex n Calgary

Solution: Rent in purpose-built rental accommodation managed by professionals. Don’t scrimp. Rent at the high end. It still far cheaper than buying in the major centers. The owner of the Vancouver building where I rent is probably lucky to see a cap rate of 5%.

If he’d had the current inflated value of this building invested in commercial property REITS that own shopping malls and office towers he’d be doing much better on yield.

Instead, that’s what I do. It’s thanks, in part, to his generous subsidization of my lifestyle.

#92 Jonathan on 08.02.14 at 1:53 pm

#88 Recipe

Funny stuff. Reads like what Ralph and the other racists must be eating for breakfast, LOL.

#90 Linda Mulligan

So true. For the few years I participated in a DB plan, my contributions were matched 1:1 by the employer and managed by a third party. There was and is absolutely no public liability for whatever happens to those funds.

(There are some excesses that I think should be looked into, such as reported today in the Star about how Hydro pensions are funded 5:1 by the public, which is much too much, though some may think it is offset by other bargaining.)

People get suckered into a race to the bottom that only benefits those at the very top, vilifying public workers, when they should be demanding better for themselves.

#93 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 1:53 pm

@#90 Linda (Takes a ) Mulligan

ahhhh yes,
Once again we have a govt worker dismally attempting to justify their exorbitant Defined Benefit govt employee pension plan which is garanteed by the taxes paid by the rest of the unpensioned workers of Canada.

Good luck with that.

Please pull your head out of the sand to see whats coming for you and yours’
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2FUS%2FwireStory%2Fdetroit-due-report-results-pension-vote-24650395&ei=FCXdU4nkKeS9jALqh4DACQ&usg=AFQjCNGBdl2KqkecZ20PYMWBBE_zKLz48g&bvm=bv.72197243,d.cGE

cant happen here?
keep dreaming that impossible dream my molly coddled govt employee pensioner……the boomer clock is ticking.
:)

#94 seeing it from both sides on 08.02.14 at 1:59 pm

@#51 James
“I’d be really interested to see some research (or even an interview) on why a wealthy investor from Singapore would be investing in a condo in Vancouver.”

I can only tell you anecdotally that I have a relative in Singapore (62 yrs old) that is mulling selling her semi-detached 1970’s bungalow with market value of about 5 million (and you all think Vancouver has crazy prices), then emigrating to Vancouver (no snow) and buying a nice luxury condo for 2-3 million (waterfront of course) and still have plenty of change left over for a very comfortable old age. Oh, and she heard that there’s free health care for seniors. Compared to Singapore, Vancouver prices are a steal. And no humidity!

#95 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 2:10 pm

@#90 Linda Mulligan (stew)

FYI.
A snippet of info from an article in Money Sense magazine from Oct. 2013.

Please read and learn. there will be a question and answer period after class.

“Taxpayers to the rescue”

In the public sector, pensions are even safer. In Canada the risk of a pension collapse like those in some U.S. jurisdictions seems negligible because of stricter regulations that require more conservative assumptions and practices. “There is a fundamental difference,” explains Vettese. “In the U.S., funding ratios are only loosely based on actuarial valuations. They aren’t tied to them as strictly as in Canada.” When U.S. state and municipal governments come under fiscal pressures, they may give themselves a pension contribution “holiday” at the worst possible time, says Vettese. In Canada, they are not permitted to do so.

But while the risk of public sector pension collapse in Canada is very low, THESE PLANS FACE THE SAME COST PRESSURES as those in the private sector. In the event of a shortfall, TAXPAYERS ARE ON THE HOOK FOR AT LEAST 50% of it. IN SOME JURISDICTIONS, like the federal government, THEY”RE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF IT.

Few Canadians realize how massive some of these unfunded liabilities are. The most egregious offender is probably the federal government itself. The C.D. Howe Institute recently revealed Ottawa’s unfunded pension liability using government accounting was $148.9 billion at the end of the 2011-12 fiscal year. That’s more than $4,200 for each of the country’s 35 million people, and more than a quarter of the federal government’s entire debt load. (Using “fair value” accounting favored by the C.D. Howe Institute, the unfunded liability is even bigger: $267 billion, or a whopping $7,600 per person.) MANY PROVINCES AND MUNICIPALITIES ALSO HAVE GAPING SHORTFALLS
While you can expect public service pension credits already earned to be unaffected, future benefits are likely to be curtailed. “Just because your pension is safe doesn’t mean it’s affordable, and it doesn’t mean there won’t be significant pressures to make these deals more cost-effective,” says retired Mercer actuary Malcolm Hamilton, now a senior fellow at C.D. Howe. Future benefits are already getting pared back in several key areas, or contributions are being increased. “It’s a trend that’s coming,” says Alexandre Laurin, associate director of research at C.D. Howe. For example, employees in the main federal government workplace plan will be gradually upping their share of pension contributions from around one-third to half. Also, new federal government hires will be able to retire with unreduced pensions after a long career only at age 60, rather than the 55 enjoyed by current employees.

But the most significant trend may be to remove inflation protection guarantees. Currently, many public sector plans pay out benefits that are fully and automatically indexed to inflation, regardless of fund assets. But an increasing number of plans are starting to make inflation protection contingent on adequate funding. Pension plans for New Brunswick public sector employees and Ontario teachers are among those that have introduced some version of this change. It means future retirees may share some of the burden of making up shortfalls, rather than placing that responsibility entirely on taxpayers, or splitting it between taxpayers and employees who are still working. Rule changes like this usually don’t apply to pension credits already earned, so it is unlikely to affect you if you’re already retired, and probably won’t affect you much if you’re close to retirement.

“When you get into a world where you have almost as many retired public servants as working public servants—and we’re fast getting there—the retired public servants need to take some of this risk,” says Hamilton. “That’s the most important and useful reform—shifting a chunk of the risk to retired members in a sensible, thoughtful, reasonable way.”

#96 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 2:20 pm

Essentially Linda, the govt will do whatever it takes to get reelected.
If that means throwing a bunch of exgovt employee pensioners under the bus……. so be it.

It may not happen next week or next year …… but big changes to govt employee pension plans ARE coming. Pray that you are long gone or have stuffed a bit of that excess pension cash in a mattress.
Cause it aint gonna be pretty.

:)

#97 JimH on 08.02.14 at 2:38 pm

From today’s post:
…” You can resent people with more than you, or go and get some of it.”…

Excellent point, Garth!

There is an ancient story about a Russian peasant whose neighbor, through a combination of hard work, sacrifice and good fortune finally managed to scrape together enough money to buy a good milk cow.

The first peasant, who had no cow of his own railed against the unfairness and injustice of his neighbor’s good fortune, and finally, on his knees, prayed that God would rectify this oversight.

To his surprise, God answered: “So, Dmitri; what would you like me to do about this?” God asked.

Dimitri answered, “I want you to kill that cow!”

#98 lisa thomson-The Great Escape... on 08.02.14 at 2:54 pm

“…units for poor people, selling below $1.5 million,…” LOL

#99 saskatoon on 08.02.14 at 3:45 pm

garth,

could a chinese citizen forward money to a local, canadian broker…to “indirectly” buy a house?

technically, it would be owned by the chinese resident…but it would be “purchased” by a canadian, local resident.

is this possible/legal?

Not without a corporate or trust structure, which are taxable entities. — Garth

#100 Excessive interest? on 08.02.14 at 3:45 pm

But what is this thing called excessive interest? Thomas Edison said, “People who will not turn a shovel-full of dirt on the project nor contribute a pound of materials will collect more money than will the people who will supply all the materials and do all the work.” I wondered when I read that if Tom was exaggerating so I got my calculator out. (example) I assumed that there was going to be a $100,000 house built. I assumed that $30,000 would have to go for land, architect’s fees and permits and that kind of thing. $70,000 would go for the actual construction of the house, building materials and labor. I assumed that the buyer would go to the bank and put 20% down and then borrow the balance at 10% over 30 years. I punched in the numbers and discovered that the borrower will pay to the bank in interest $172,741 compared to $70,000 paid for the construction of the house. In other words, about 2 1/2 times as much money will be paid to the bank in interest than will be paid to those who provide all the labor and all the materials. And you may say to yourself, yes but that’s fair, after all a 30 year loan is a long loan and people work for their money and sacrifice its use and loan it and so forth and deserve to be compensated. No. Not this money. Nobody worked for this money, nobody saved this money. There was no sacrifice of any kind for this money. This money was created out of nothing and I suggest that $172,741 interest on nothing is excessive and remember that was for a fictitious 100,000 dollar house so how excessive is your total interest that you need to be pay for your mortgage paid by money created out of nothing, F_c_n banks.

#101 JimH on 08.02.14 at 3:47 pm

#93, #95, #96 crowdedelevatorfartz

Why all the vitriol in your responses?

Seems you could have done at least 1 of 2 things:
1. you could have qualified yourself and applied for a gov’t job with an indexed DB pension so you could have had your very own;
2. you could have led a serious national campaign against those nasty indexed DB pensions
3. amassed a decent enough retirement nest egg that would preclude your apparent bitter resentment towards them that do have indexed DB pensions.
4. taught me how to count.

Seriously, crowdedelevatorfartz; lightenupalready…

You sound as ornery as a cabdriver with hemorrhoids!

(No, I will never receive an indexed DB pension. I opted for the prize behind door number 3. Have a nicer day!)

#102 Usury on 08.02.14 at 4:00 pm

I think it’s time for a new definition of usury as follows: any interest on any loan of fiat money (meaning money made out of nothing). This example of a $100,000 home, as shocking as it is, producing $172,741 unearned interest, this is just a grain of sand in the Sahara. You have to multiply that by all the homes in Canada, by all of these hotels in Canada, all the high-rise buildings, all the factories, all the airplanes, automobiles, farm equipment, schools, everything, all the physical assets of Canada. You apply this same ratio and can you see it in your mind? We’re talking about a river of unearned wealth that is so wide you can’t even think of crossing it, flowing perpetually into the banking cartel. A dead beat that sucks your hard earned and already taxed money across the productive element of society. Money being taken from people who are working hard providing the material and the labor. They don’t even know that this is being taken from them and it’s in this huge river of wealth flowing into the corrupt and evil banking cartel. It’s the most staggering and sinister theft know to mankind, condoned by our Federal and Provincial governments to operate this Ponzi banking cartel scheme forever more, worldwide and controlled by the richest .001% soulless good for nothing elites.

#103 Macrath on 08.02.14 at 4:21 pm

The C.D. Howe Institute ? Isn`t that some right to work for slave wage for my corporate sponsors Tea Party Tim Hudak outfit ?

Dimitri~ kill that cow cause I don`t have one

Priceless !

#104 Shawn on 08.02.14 at 4:37 pm

Usury and unearned interest.

It is very sad that people who rail against banks and interest fiat money are allowed to look after their own finances.

Is there a way to have these people declared financially incompetent?

It’s especially weird to see this ranting at a time of record low interest rates.

And for gosh sakes, why don’t the ranters just buy some bank stocks?

Try starting with Adam Smith, (An inquiry into the Nature and Causes of The wealth of Nations, 1776) the first few chapters discuss the fair wages of labour and the fair wages of capital.

#105 Shawn on 08.02.14 at 4:39 pm

Interest on a Mortgage

If you want a house to live in and don’t have the money to buy one for cash then you either rent the house or you rent the money to buy one. What is wrong with that?

#106 How I see I, the great power game over us the useless eater’s for that is what they call the 99.999% of us! on 08.02.14 at 4:51 pm

How I see I, the great power game over us the useless eater’s for that is what they call the 99.999% of us!
Everything is manipulated from your fiat money to your gold and silver to all of your dollar based investments that are really if you truly want to be truthful to yourself are all based on everyone else’s debt whether it is individual debt, corporate and governmental debt for your total dollar self-worth is all based on debt other than actual physical things you own outright for as long as the government allows you to legally own it that is.
Individual Banks around the Globe are not doing very good but all of the Central Banks of the world who are controlled by the .001% man-o-man do they ever take in all of the profits that is paid for every single loan worldwide for they can create all the paper (plastic) dollars that they want and lend it out for a great profit and I beg you to try to imagine just how much interest is being paid out by every loan worldwide per month the number is staggering and horrific.
The .001% keep you busy with your internet, TV, movies, music, games, political issues, environmental issues, war anything to keep you off of the Golden prize of a One World Bank that is coming and they will inflict war, disease and starvation so you the 99.999% sheeple will plead to the corrupt soulless .001% and accept their One World Government and after that they will exterminate us down to 500 milion souls.
Have a great long weekend and enjoy your time here while you are still allowed to be alive.

And I hope you’ve enjoyed your time here. Adios. — Garth

#107 Vangrrl on 08.02.14 at 5:01 pm

#94:
Just 6-8 months of gloom and dampness. What every elderly person dreams of…

#108 Casual Observer on 08.02.14 at 6:07 pm

“UBC’s Prof. David Ley, holder of the Canada Research Chair in Geography, has long studied links between international immigration to Vancouver and home prices there. In his 2010 book, Millionaire Migrants, the Oxford-educated researcher found an “unusually decisive” +0.94 correlation between the two factors… This correlation far exceeded that between prices and interest rates (-0.12), rental vacancies (-0.03), unemployment (0.16) and other conventional correlates.

Dr. Ley’s conclusions are bolstered by a 2011 study by Landcor Data, which pored over sales records in Richmond and Vancouver’s West End to discover that 74 per cent of all luxury purchases in 2010 were made by buyers with purely mainland Chinese names. “What some have underplayed or dismissed as apocryphal ‘as told by Realtors,’ is underpinned by educated numbers,” said Landcor.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/in-vancouver-race-undercuts-the-discussion-on-affordability/article19873510/

Prices are set at the margins. With wealthy marginal buyers (regardless of race), is it a surprise that they would “outbid” the locals on desirable properties that they want?

Previous owners of luxury houses in the city have more buying power to bid on luxury condos, or houses out in the ‘burbs, etc. A ripple effect is created.

Prices in the city rise, so people who used to live in the city move out to the ‘burbs and commute to work. They have more purchasing power than the locals because of their higher paying city jobs, so they are able to outbid the people who work in the ‘burbs.

People with jobs in the ‘burbs move further away from their work so they can afford to purchase a house and raise a family. They blame “rich” people who sold their properties in the city with bidding up prices in the suburbs. The “rich” city people blame rich foreigners for pushing prices in the city out of their reach.

This isn’t a new thing, by the way, it’s been going on for a long time. It’s just that in recent years, a new level of marginal buyer has been added to the mix – the rich immigrant investor/buyer.

That is how wealthy foreign buyers representing less than 10% of all transactions can have an overwhelming influence on housing prices.

Of course, if locals weren’t willing to chase prices higher, the whole thing would never have gotten as bad as it is, but when people have access to easy credit, fear, greed and impatience take precedence over math, logic and prudence.

#109 JimH on 08.02.14 at 6:09 pm

#106 How I see I, the great power game over us the useless eater’s for that is what they call the 99.999% of us! on 08.02.14 at 4:51 pm
——————————————————
Geez… it must be bad enough to be afflicted with the multiple personalities of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Glen Beck, Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity.

But this must be what it’s like when they’re all fighting to get out!

#110 april on 08.02.14 at 6:15 pm

#94 – “…free health care for seniors”?, she heard wrong.

#111 Andrew Woburn on 08.02.14 at 6:33 pm

Wouldn’t shorting Genworth be an indirect way of shorting the housing market?

#112 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 6:43 pm

@#101 JimH

Well, if posting links to actual news stories rates “as onery as a cabdriver with hemerroids”.
So be it.

1. As for working for the govt. Nah. Tried it. I left for my sanity’s sake . I hated the slothful, inefficient, union protected mindless drones that shuffled as slowly as possible from one coffee machine to the next all while bitching and moaning about how hard they were expected to work.
2. I’ll leave the “national campaign” to the politician that is eventually forced by the economy to grow a spine and nuke such perks as inflation indexing, medical benefits, severancing and immediatly subcontracting the same worker back at a high rate of pay……
3. I already have more than enough, but thanks for your concern.
4. 1+1=2 in the real world but 0+0=2 in the government employee pension contribution world.

Glad I could help :)

Time for a swim in the pool :)

#113 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 6:48 pm

@#97 JimH

I assume the “cow” you are referring to is the Canadian Taxpayer?
Docile, complacent, waiting to be milked………….

#114 Smoking Man on 08.02.14 at 7:06 pm

There are four of us…. From Nectonite, about one billion light years away…..

We’re here to make a call.. You bastards are about to discover the secretes to interstellar space travel..

Our mission, evaluate humanity, are they evolved enough to travel the stars…

Sadly I’m voting for the destruction of your entire spices.

Look around the world… What’s going on….

We can’t let your cancer spread……

#115 Smoking Man on 08.02.14 at 7:20 pm

At the bar, pre moddy blues.. Alone with the head phones listening to the ghost of… Johnny Cash….

The humans assemble in packs at the tables, telling lies, with fake smiles and laughter….

Being an observer is a cool job… Chic roles up to me in a wheel chair….

Shall I give her here lags back…..

Yes dogs I’ve lost my mind….

These old boomers….

#116 Stickler on 08.02.14 at 8:14 pm

#39 Shawn on 08.01.14 at 6:57 pm

Actually reading again, Financial Freedom is not lamenting how free markets work. He is suggesting people get over it. I agree.

———————————

If the “low cost” destinations had the same environmental, safety, human rights standards, etc. then, oh wait…they would be low cost destination anymore would they?

#117 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.02.14 at 8:22 pm

@#114,115 Smoking Man

O……M…….G !

You are certifiable.

But amusing.

Live long and prosper.

#118 Kits388 on 08.02.14 at 9:10 pm

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Douglas+Todd+floating+life+affluent+transnational+migrants/10083574/story.html?__federated=1

Garth, educate yourself …. You can’t raise the racist flag because the various sources of data come from Chinese researchers ….

How are you enjoying the new house you paid too much for? — Garth

#119 Cha Ching on 08.02.14 at 9:53 pm

Most real estate haters have been saying that foreign buying doesn’t exist. It must be sad to be willfully ignorant.

As Canadian real estate prices increase across the board, one can be certain that foreign buying of Canadian real estate will continue unabated.

Of course foreigners buy real estate here. But they don’t set general market values. You do that. — Garth

#120 Smoking Man on 08.02.14 at 9:56 pm

DELETED

#121 Macrath on 08.02.14 at 10:03 pm

no reply from MEANWHILE IN FRANCE
—————————————

So what currency broker do the 1% international jet set blog dogs use for all their foreign escapades and vast real estate and PM holdings ?

Anything has to be better than usury from [email protected] TD.

Travelex ?

#122 valleyrenter on 08.02.14 at 10:03 pm

Had two phone calls show up on the call display over the last two days from an unfamiliar number. Second time they left a message, it was from [email protected] calling to say that they have all kinds of wonderful financial products and I can stop by anytime to talk to anyone at my local branch for all my financial needs, etc, etc. Found it weird, however, from a marketing standpoint pretty smart. Anytime you can call your existing customers and market to them, you increase your closing %.

#123 natrx on 08.02.14 at 10:13 pm

This has been going for a LONG time. Since the start of the condo boom. Taiwan, China, Hong Kong are also common places advertised.

They sell a few units here, at a cheaper price, then that gets them to the next stage of financing, and finally, to the suckers in Canada.

#124 45north on 08.02.14 at 10:18 pm

How I see I

it’s “how I see me”

#125 TnT on 08.02.14 at 10:25 pm

Of course foreigners buy real estate here. But they don’t set general market values. You do that. — Garth

Wrong…

General Values are set by the number of buyers.

More buyers = higher prices

The Canadian birth rate have not produced enough buyers for this Real Estate run up…

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/84f0210x/2008000/ct005-eng.htm

#126 Smoking Man on 08.02.14 at 10:28 pm

About a month ago, at the main bar at Seneca, after a jug of JD with the son from Halifax.. I was, how do I put this mild, flirting with a short term rental..

No idea what I was saying, but fellow members, two couples from the losers lounge, AK, chairman’s lounge where watching intensely.. Listening to my JD induced depravity.

They don’t talk to me any more, the men look at me with such contempt.. Their ladies give me the odd smile..

Should it not be the other way around…

#127 45north on 08.02.14 at 10:35 pm

Justice W.P. Sullivan demanded Glenn and Deanna Mutter, complainants in a civil case before the Court of Queen’s Bench, stop tormenting their neighbours.

this was in today’s Citizen: the Mutters ( I’m not making this up ) complained repeatedly about their neighbours. The RCMP filed a complaint against them. The judge sided with the RCMP. He called the Mutters self-righteous, entitled, passive aggressive, just plain aggressive, disingenuous and prone to exaggeration. The Mutters have filed notice to appeal.

reminds me of the story 100 years ago. A man received a telegraph from his lawyer: “justice has prevailed”, he sent back a telegraph “appeal immediately”

#128 Son of Ponzi on 08.02.14 at 10:52 pm

Blog dogs.
Keep your posts to one paragraph or maybe two.
If you’ve got a point to make, make it.

#129 Son of Ponzi on 08.02.14 at 11:00 pm

Garth,
Econonomics 101 tells us that the marginal buyer sets the price for the the next identical unit for sale.
Assuming, that a rich Asian buyer pays 4 mill for a 2 million tear-down, he just moved the overall bar higher.
And so on, and so on!

#130 Mark on 08.02.14 at 11:10 pm

“As Canadian real estate prices increase across the board, one can be certain that foreign buying of Canadian real estate will continue unabated.”

Actually RE prices have been falling for the past year pretty much across the country. And there may very well be some foreign interest brewing as prices continue to fall. But prices are still quite in the nosebleed section and have plenty to fall.

#131 Mark on 08.02.14 at 11:11 pm

“Wouldn’t shorting Genworth be an indirect way of shorting the housing market?”

Sure. Or simply go long the Canadian big-5 banks. Either way.

#132 Mark on 08.02.14 at 11:13 pm

“Plus most of them let their wives live here, to get the kids free education, health etc. and probably claim for social assistance because they don’t really have income here, cause the money is made offshore. Reaping all the Canadian benefits and probably paying very little in taxes.”

Accusing an entire nationality of income tax and welfare fraud? Tsk, Tsk!

#133 Pity Jim H everyone on 08.02.14 at 11:18 pm

#109 JimH on 08.02.14 at 6:09 pm

Geez… it must be bad enough to not discuss anything that what said but to just attack the individual instead… its a real shame for you proved who you really are right from the star.

Pity Jim H everyone

#134 Mark on 08.02.14 at 11:20 pm

“The best indicator of this invasion would be the percentage of houses bought for cash in Vancouver. ”

Actually ‘cash’ purchases can mean people upsizing or downsizing from an existing house. Or taking out credit against other assets. “Cash” stats aren’t exactly very relevant, nor very rigorously kept.

Also, there is minimal evidence of foreign ‘cash’ coming into the market in the form of anything but credit.

#135 Sheane Wallace on 08.02.14 at 11:20 pm

Since mortgage ‘insurance’ is such a great idea and we as well as our housing market are exceptional (sorry Americans you are not exceptional, we are) why don’t we start insuring through IHMC (international housing mortgage corporation) all the mortgages in the world? It would be nice income stream, no risk, we will solve the world financial problems.
The boss would be elected king of the world, saviour of the world financial system and we will live happily ever after.
After all we (the Genworth boss) are recommending that mortgage insurance to the Irish, poor souls, if they had this in place their market would not be imploding north of 50 %.

Yellow journalism in Canada?
This exceptional conformists culture?
It simply can’t be.

#136 Mark on 08.02.14 at 11:22 pm

“If you want a house to live in and don’t have the money to buy one for cash then you either rent the house or you rent the money to buy one. What is wrong with that?”

Shawn, some people are under the delusion that the lenders of money will perpetually charge less for the money, than the return on the house itself. Up until recently, they were right. But with house prices declining over the past year, and likely to continue declining, most homeowners are paying more in interest/financing expense than the total return of their leveraged housing investment. In effect, leverage/credit increases the cost of the asset as lenders demand a significant real return for putting their funds at risk.

#137 Sheane Wallace on 08.02.14 at 11:29 pm

Are you saying that our pension system is a Ponzi scheme?

I though we, the exceptional rich people could pay all the pensions in the world and solve the world pension problems.

Just pass a law that all world deposits, pension shortfalls, mortgages are ‘insured’ by the Canadian taxpayer and problem solved! As we are soooooooo good and prudent in insuring and our insurance and banks are the best in the world.

#138 Sheane Wallace on 08.02.14 at 11:30 pm

last post was in reply ti #95 crowdedelevatorfartz

#139 Sheane Wallace on 08.02.14 at 11:33 pm

another great idea: we can ‘insure’ all the world derivatives. All the quadrillion of dollars of it.

#140 Usury on 08.02.14 at 11:42 pm

#104 Shawn on 08.02.14 at 4:37 pm

It’s especially weird to see this ranting at a time of record low interest rates.

It’s especially weird to see this type of ranting at a time of record high World debt and the debt of all the world governments at the time of this posting was:

“Fifty Eight Trillion, Nine Hundred and Seventeen Billion, Eight Hundred and Eight Million, Eight Hundred and Nineteen Thousand Four Hundred and Twenty One US Dollars”

Now its a lot more have a look:

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

Now add in private and corporate debt and your OK with all of this for I forgot your a sheeple.

Wake up Shawn…and smell the debt hanging over everybody’s necks…

#141 Usury on 08.03.14 at 12:02 am

$223.3 trillion: The total indebtedness of the world, including all parts of the public and private sectors, amounting to 313% of global gross domestic product.

$223,300,000,000,000.00 divided by the population of the world 7,251,163,075 = 30,795.059729090426 per person.

Shawn’s OK with that!

#142 Usury on 08.03.14 at 12:31 am

$223.3 trillion: The total indebtedness of the world, including all parts of the public and private sectors, amounting to 313% of global gross domestic product.

Initial deposit:
$0.00

Everything below is in Trillions.

Loan payments:
$391,616.87

Balloon payment at end:
$0.00

Total payable:
$391,616.87

300 monthly payments of:
$1,305.39

Total interest:
$168,316.87

Start date: August 2, 2014
End date: August 2, 2039

Loan amount:
$223,300.00

Extra fees:
$0.00

Interest Rate:
5%

Effective Annual Rate:
5.12%

APR (?):
5.12%

So $223,300,000,000,000.00 trillion loaned out for 25 years at 5.12% = $168,316,870,000,000.00 Trillion in interest for a grand total of $391,616,870,000,000.00

$391,616,870,000,000.00 divided by world population 7,251,163,075 = $54007.45 per person.

#143 Steve French on 08.03.14 at 1:27 am

Smoking Man: Did they say why, Steve French, why they want to terminate my command?

Steve French: I was sent on a classified mission, sir.

SM: It’s no longer classified, is it? Did they tell you?

SF: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were… unsound.

SM: Are my methods unsound?

SF: I don’t see… any method… at all, sir Smoking Man.

#144 Steve French on 08.03.14 at 1:32 am

Smoking Man [dictates to tape]:

… They train young horny virgins to take out huge real estate loans. But the loan agents won’t allow them to write ‘*&%$’ on Garth Turner’s Greater Fool blog because it is obscene !!!

#145 Flawed on 08.03.14 at 1:51 am

#14 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.01.14 at 4:50 pm
Welcome to planet earth. We have 150 million km2 of land. We have 7 billion people.

Jobs flow to the lowest cost labour. Condos can be sold to the highest priced buyer. You’re competing on a global scale, best to start adjusting and factoring that in, it’s not new.

Is this subsidized housing by the government using local tax payer money? Not sure what the issue is, other than no one seems to be lacking in a sense of entitlement (aka I am more deserving of something than you because…).

The planet has bigger issues to worry about. Perspective people.

You are just a bear for punishment bringing this tired topic up again…

#146 Flawed on 08.03.14 at 1:55 am

Stupid computer sorry….

Your only competing on a global scale if your govt sells out its own citizens like the Canadian govt does.

– other countries put caps on RE and levies to protect its people.

– BCrs are being charged a “phony carbon tax” meanwhile billions of tons of COAL TO CHINA leaves every year with NO tax on it

– Foreigners receive better housing and admitence into our schools cuz they are bringing cash. WHO CARES about Canadian students.

And the list goes on…….

THANKS FOR THE SELLOUT PUBLIC SECTOR – BUT ITS ALL ABOUT THE KIDS RIGHT STRIKING TEACHERS?

#147 Kilby on 08.03.14 at 2:04 am

#77 infratime on 08.02.14 at 1:45 am
the easy solution….build bridges/causeways to Vancouver island and the sunshine coast……spread the wealth, and the infrastructure….

No! We just got away from Vancouver and don’t need it following us to the Island, houses are almost affordable here and nearly everybody is polite.

#148 TRT on 08.03.14 at 4:23 am

Too much hate, right Garth?

I’m going to start speaking Punjabi out loud and will demand service in it. Why not? Make sure you teach your grandkids my language as well.

Got to love the Garth types.

#149 MEANWHILE IN FRANCE on 08.03.14 at 5:04 am

@85Macrath

I agree. Not all is gold that shines when living in Europa.
In the sum of all things though, and real estate specifically, this continent is swell.

#150 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.03.14 at 8:12 am

#116 5tickler
______

Have you visited Ft. Mc.Murray AB lately? Two oil sands fatalities so far in 2014. We are hardly lily white in Canada. The dogged pursuit of the mighty dollar is universal.

My point was the globalization horse left the barn long ago.

Exercising informed consumer choice still counts – buy according to your beliefs and values, know what you are supporting, and hold others accountable through media and public opinion. That way human rights, safety and environmental sustainability can get a foothold elsewhere – you also export it with your buying power/investment choices – lots of evidence of that.

I just don’t see a private developer in Vancouver allocating a block of units to make setting up a salesoffice in Singapore viable is what any of us need to be concerned about these days. That was not meant to be dismissive of the world’s ills. But “getting over” vancouver house I do think would be a positive start – passion needed elsewhere on things that actually matter.

#151 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.03.14 at 8:33 am

#143 Flawed
_________

My family received government handouts to come here. Land was taken by the crown from people who lived here for thousands of years and given at bargain basement prices to “new immigrants” with money and few restrictions. I am very much aware how my ancestors got established here 150 years ago.

Nothing new…

#152 JimH on 08.03.14 at 8:40 am

#124 TnT
… “General Values are set by the number of buyers.

More buyers = higher prices…”
==============================
Generally, you’re right.

But under normal (historical/non bubble) conditions, housing prices are also mostly driven by;

1. rising wages
2. rising population
3. rising GDP

Those 3 conditions not only bring your “number of buyers” into the market, but also drives their willingness to arrive at a consensus on price.

If foreigners account for only 10% or so of sales, then why are the “other” 90% agreeing to pay the piper?

#153 JimH on 08.03.14 at 8:50 am

Most of the rationale underling the topic of current market pricing was covered by Charles Mackay in his 1841 book, “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds”, which at last report, still remains in print today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

#154 Herb on 08.03.14 at 9:31 am

#97 JimH,

you must be clairvoyant, because you could not have seen the elevator polluter’s posts, yet posted the best possible reply.

It’s a bastard when those dogdamned employees want some more of your rightful personal/corporate profits. Gotta support those Neandercon politics of envy!

#155 Nanouk on 08.03.14 at 9:57 am

‘Actually RE prices have been falling for the past year pretty much across the country.’

North of Polar Bear Provincial Park

#156 Macrath on 08.03.14 at 10:04 am

#146 MEANWHILE IN FRANCE

Merci~ I have used Sears Master card and they have no commission on exchange rates, apparently the only commission free card in Canada.
Now if one wants to transfer money monthly like pension dough or wants cash Euros, things get complicated ~C’est la vie

#157 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.03.14 at 11:31 am

@#154 Herb
Been smoking a bit too much of the herb have we?
JimH( #152&153) hasnt commented on any of my rebuttals to his statements
crowdedelevatorfartz/rebuttals ……. get it?

God I’m amusing on a Sunday morning.
God/ Sunday………get it?

#158 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.03.14 at 11:36 am

@#128 Son of Ponzi

Sorry for the long winded replies ( esp. #95 )but sometimes it takes more than a few lines to explain to govt employees 0+0 DOESNT equal 2……..

#159 crowdedelevatorfartz on 08.03.14 at 11:41 am

@#126 SM
“They don’t talk to me any more, the men look at me with such contempt.. Their ladies give me the odd smile..

Should it not be the other way around…”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well i guess it depends on whether you were flirting with a man or a woman………

Not that there’s anything WRONG with that!

#160 Ferdinand (@StFerdinandIII) on 08.03.14 at 11:59 am

In a civilized society you defend your borders and manage you immigration to attract those who will support your existing culture. NOT having residency requirements is asinine, puerile, corrupt and maintained ONLY so that gov’ts can build RE and tax the hell out of it to fill their ever-expanding [called austerity by geniuses], budgets.

Stop the foreign buying spree. NOW.

So, no Canadian-owned homes in Florida or Nevada. then? — Garth

#161 TurnerNation on 08.03.14 at 12:16 pm

This more of a bike blog but my Zipcar reservation was swapped out to a new Kia Rio; here’s a review:

– Large ‘A’ pillars at front windscreen block viewing of pedestrians in the city and cars whose blind spot you are in on the highway
– Engine is very loud (drowns radio) and hoary and must be rowed though the gears (in manual shift mode), keeping it ‘on the boil’ between 3-6000rpm to extract any power.
– Rearview mirror is useless (first rule of driving in Italy?) due to teensy rear window and rear headrests in view.
– Suspension is hard and ineffective, it has it all wrong: axle hop, bump-steer, lane drift. (Everything but torque steer, natch.)
– Seats are hard and flat, felt like an airliner’s.

TurnerNation verdict: “Unsafe at any speed”.

(New book? “On a clear day you can see Kia Motors.”)

The best of part of #rentallifestyle is credit card collision coverage for all rental cars (underwritten, I believe, by Moral, Hazard & Co.).

#162 jess on 08.03.14 at 12:29 pm

make company ownership fully transparent.

Another example : Messi’s alleged tax evasion scheme relied on hiding the owners of UK and other companies
1st August 2014
================
From wikipedia:
“A policeman sees a drunk man searching for something under a streetlight and asks what the drunk has lost. He says he lost his keys and they both look under the streetlight together. After a few minutes the policeman asks if he is sure he lost them here, and the drunk replies, no, that he lost them in the park. The policeman asks why he is searching here, and the drunk replies, “this is where the light is.”[2]

Abraham Kaplan :The Conduct of Inquiry: Methodology for Behavioral Science (Harper & Row, 1964) “the principle of the drunkard’s search” (p. 11).
===================
passive investing

Aug 1, 2014
Artificial intelligence? Computers financing man’s destruction
http://www.globalwitness.org/blog/?p=527&preview=true

#163 SHELTER THE MONEY NOT THE PEOPLE on 08.03.14 at 12:37 pm

#42 Landlord on 08.01.14 at 7:04 pm
Asians from what I notice study harder, worker longer smarter and harder and save and invest wisely!
—————————————————————
Pretty much off base there.
It is true that what we see here is a lot of the wealthiest Asians in a new country striving feverishly to fit in an make a place for themselves. Good on them.

If Asia was the place for such smart people then why is most of the world playing catch up to the Western Nations?

It is pretty clear that the Western Democracies have developed the most successful societies and harbor the brightest and most creative minds. Otherwise we would be stealing from Chinese computers and not the other way around.
No doubt Asian people work hard, Physically, but smarter? I’m not so sure.
Other myths perpetuated are those of strong family bonds and respect for elders.
Well as a person who spent 2 years in China I can tell you that my Chinese friends tell me that there are many many lonely and abandoned seniors in care homes who seldom see their kids once the wealth transfer has taken place. It seem to be common to take the wealth of seniors before they die. It is then a burden to the children to see the living expenses of the senior through until death. Many fail to do this properly once they power through the inheritance.
The situation is not quite what I thought it was going in.

#164 Smoking Man on 08.03.14 at 12:40 pm

Wow really hard to type with such a monstrous head acke

I sentit amazing how fast an ant can travel rrelative to its size…

In human terms and scale, that’s like being on a bike all out..

Amazing

#165 SHELTER THE MONEY NOT THE PEOPLE on 08.03.14 at 12:49 pm

One more egregious myth to expose.
When you see a list of math achievement by country you will notice Shanghai or Korea will top the list often.
What you don’t know is that the Stats are taken from only the most prestigious Private schools populated by the wealthiest students with tutors and supports not seen by anyone else in their countries.

Our stats are taken from a much broader base of the whole school population including the poor.

It is a very shallow comparison.

Link? — Garth

#166 Millenial on 08.03.14 at 12:52 pm

The Bureau of Labor Statistics released its latest jobs report on Friday morning – 209,000 non-farm jobs added. 6th consecutive month job growth in excess of 200k.

Breaking down the jobs by demographics.
Age group of 16 to 19: gain 44,000
Age group of 20 to 24: gain 43,000
Age group of 25 to 54: net loss of 142,000 jobs
Age group of 55 to 69: gained 159,000 jobs

I suspect a lot of those jobs for the 16 to 19, and 20 to 24 year olds are summer or temporary jobs.

Beats the crap out of our stats. — Garth

#167 Toledo Water Salesman on 08.03.14 at 1:05 pm

Forget about real estate and bitcoin you house horny doomer types, I am making a killing in sales!

As a former real estate agent, I am making way more than 2.5% selling bottled water, more like 40% every caseload, some of them shipped from Canada, eh!

400,000 people, no water, workplaces shut down this week, and it’s just the beginning of algae season on Lake Erie.

What’s not to love!!

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/

My Slogan:

“Don’t drink, don’t boil! Just buy!!”

Folks, keep all those taxes low so we don’t build any more water treatment plants, and keep that tar sands petrol flowing to create farm chemicals that give such a lovely green tint to our lake.

Who said the coming environmental apocalypse won’t be profitable ;)

I’ll be coming to Toronto soon too, I can just feel it!!

#168 hohoho on 08.03.14 at 1:36 pm

> … Plus most of them let their wives live here, to get the kids free education, health etc. and probably claim for social assistance because they don’t really have
income here …

if you know specific cases, please report to CRA. making anonymous statements like “most of them … probably …” online is at best useless.

#169 Stickler on 08.03.14 at 1:36 pm

@ #150 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.03.14 at 8:12 am

#116 5tickler
______

Have you visited Ft. Mc.Murray AB lately? Two oil sands fatalities so far in 2014. We are hardly lily white in Canada. The dogged pursuit of the mighty dollar is universal.

My point was the globalization horse left the barn long ago.

————————————-

I agree with you, but there are important differences.

You can shift manufacture of irons from China to some African nation easily -> to save a few cents per unit.

You need to get oil, where there is oil…and yes I know its a dirty business.

The only way to get change is to vote with your dollars.

#170 Flawed on 08.03.14 at 1:38 pm

#151 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.03.14 at 8:33 am
#143 Flawed
_________

My family received government handouts to come here. Land was taken by the crown from people who lived here for thousands of years and given at bargain basement prices to “new immigrants” with money and few restrictions. I am very much aware how my ancestors got established here 150 years ago.

Nothing new…

*********************************

And your suggesting that while we walk around and Google Glass in realtime video we are still the same murderous barbarians slicing open women and kids on the plains as we were 150 years ago?

Fail

Could you please explain who the “murderous barbarians slicing open women and kids on the plains” were? The settlers, or the native inhabitants? — Garth

#171 Flawed on 08.03.14 at 1:41 pm

Stop the foreign buying spree. NOW.

So, no Canadian-owned homes in Florida or Nevada. then? — Garth

********************************

Shacks in Florida are not 1 million dollars bought by people flying around in helicopters and pointing. Furthermore, the cost of living in Florida is HALF of what it is in the province of Bring Cash.

Oh. So poor immigrants are okay. — Garth

#172 Dandy Fancy on 08.03.14 at 1:50 pm

Garth,
Our mortgage is up for renewal and I need to decide (wish I didn’t have to, but hey..) best route. Variable still best bet as I can lock in at any time? Or, should we just get a 4 or 5 yr fixed?
cheers!

#173 SHELTER THE MONEY NOT THE PEOPLE on 08.03.14 at 1:53 pm

Most of the PISA results come from a sampling of scores from countries as a whole. China has a special arrangement with the OECD that allows the country to administer the test in select regions, but only allow the results from Shanghai, a financial hub which spends four times the national average on student funding, to be published. Most Chinese students live in rural areas and do not have the thousands of dollars that those in Shanghai have to pay for extra tutoring.

http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/china-cheats-the-pisa-exams/

http://world.time.com/2013/12/04/china-is-cheating-the-world-student-rankings-system/

No doubt Shanghai and Hong Kong are doing well. They are actually like separate countries within a country.

Demographics are really going to be a big factor in the near future. China will be the demographic time bomb of aging for the whole world.
That is where their biggest challenge will lie.
Up to now they have hit an economic sweet spot with one of the highest percentages of working people in the world.
Soon to be the very lowest with a decline of 1.5% per year.
http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/?fa=52309

#174 TO Renter on 08.03.14 at 2:32 pm

@ 160 Ferdinand
+++++++++

I’ll see you at the next smudge ceremony and drum circle then môniyâw.

We are a pluralist society. Our history is one of immigration for 400+ years.

It’s a checkered history though. There have been restrictions on different groups for different reasons at different times. Admittedly we don’t often highlight that as something to be proud of. Hmm, wonder why?

#175 Macrath on 08.03.14 at 2:39 pm

167 Toledo Water Salesman
I’ll be coming to Toronto soon too, I can just feel it!!
——————————————–
It`s been a problem in Toronto for years. It`s potable but just tastes bad they tell you.
Just add vodka like Smoke`n dude and your good to go.

We here enjoy the wonderful sent of Eau de Toilet as its aerated over the magnificent Niagara Falls.

Humans are an evolutionary dead end.

#176 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.03.14 at 2:49 pm

To make my point further, found the conditions under which the great (times x?) grandparent was welcomed into Canada, and the property we still have was acquired:

Free Grants and Homestead Act
– gave 200 acres
– applicant must be over 18 years of age, with family
– land to be settled and cultivated
– trees to be cleared from 15 acres
– build house at least 16×20
– live there at least half the calendar year for 5 years
– requirements met then apply for a patent and become the owner (province maintains mineral rights)

Not a bad deal in 1868…

The conditions were to encourage permanent settlement over speculation.

Some debates are older than we are, and will apparently continue to outlive us all.

#177 Under democracy, loans are not debited to an individual, but to the nation as a whole. All the citizens, and their children, become responsible for repaying the loan. on 08.03.14 at 2:50 pm

It is slowly dawning upon the people of the West that central banking cartels have been draining away their wealth. What they haven’t yet understood is that these money cartels were only made possible by what we call democracy.

Given that democracy is almost a sacred dogma these days, it’s understandable that people have been slow in grasping this fact. Nonetheless, central banking, and giant banks in general, were impossible until democracy was instituted in the West.

Here’s why:

Prior to democracy, loans were undertaken by monarchs, who were personally responsible for their loans. As Meir Kohn of the economics department at Dartmouth University writes:

The debt of a territorial government was essentially the personal debt of the prince: if he died, his successor had no obligation to honor it; if he defaulted, there was no recourse against him in his own courts.

Sometimes princes paid their loans, and sometimes they didn’t. For example, the Peruzzi were a leading Florentine banking house in the 14th century. At one point, they lent Edward III of England 400,000 gold florins, which, for a variety of reasons, was never repaid. This led to the collapse of the Peruzzi Bank in 1343.

Deals were quickly made when a prince died, of course, but the bankers had a weak position. They had to negotiate the balances and promise to make more loans in the future.

On top of that, many rulers simply refused to pay loans they had taken. Probably the most prolific deadbeat was King Philip II of Spain. He refused to pay back his loans at least a dozen times.

Because of this, banks were seriously limited. They developed techniques of dealing with sovereign defaults, but central banking as we know it was more or less impossible. Bankers didn’t dare make the kinds of loans they do now.

Democracy, however, solved that problem for them. Under democracy, loans are not debited to an individual, but to the nation as a whole. All the citizens, and their children, become responsible for repaying the loan.

From the institution of democracy onward, loaning money to a government gave the banker a claim against the taxes of the people… a claim that never expires.

This was a clever trick: The person who signs for the loan ends up bearing almost no responsibility, and gets to spend all the money. At the same time, millions of people who never approved the debt—who probably had no way of even knowing about it—are left holding the bag… and passing on the obligation to their children.

This is how Fifty Eight Trillion, Nine Hundred and Seventeen Billion, Eight Hundred and Eight Million, Eight Hundred and Nineteen Thousand Four Hundred and Twenty One US Dollars” of debt can be piled up on top of a populace of the world.

Without democracy, it couldn’t have happened.

Nice plagiarism. Now go away. — Garth

#178 Vancouverite on 08.03.14 at 3:05 pm

#129 Son of Ponzi on 08.02.14 at 11:00 pm wrote:
Garth,
Econonomics 101 tells us that the marginal buyer sets the price for the the next identical unit for sale.
Assuming, that a rich Asian buyer pays 4 mill for a 2 million tear-down, he just moved the overall bar higher.
And so on, and so on!
——————————————
Not sure how many people gets rich and stays rich paying $4M for something with a market value of $2M.

#179 Financial Freedom at 40 on 08.03.14 at 3:19 pm

@ #170 Flawed
++++++++++++
No family history of murders have been passed down, so not sure how to answer your conscience on that one. Marriage, birth and death records are easier to trace. When your Canadian economic roots go back to fur trading you find it was common for an immigrant (opportunist?) Brit or Frenchman to marry a native woman. As far as I know, nobody generations later can skin an animal, even putting a worm on a hook is not my thing. But I will agree with the Google glass reference.

Then again, many in the tree did fight an invasion, in the form of Americans, in 1812. So I get that borders and beliefs should sometimes be defended. Yellow peril in Vancouver is just not my chosen battle. To each their own.

#180 Panhead on 08.03.14 at 3:20 pm

Speaking of immigrants … I remember a co-worker telling me of escaping Hungary during the revolution in the mid 50’s. He left without telling anyone, not even his parents. He made it to a refugee camp and was lucky enough to get his way over here paid for by the Canadian government. They also supplied him with a one way train ticket across the country. When he disembarked the train in Vancouver he had $5.00 in his pockets. I asked him what he did and he replied “I got me a hooker, vye not?” He went on to get a job, pay taxes, get married, and raise a family just like the rest of “us.” Immigrants are Canada …

#181 Entrepreneur on 08.03.14 at 4:19 pm

I think the Mayor of Vancouver is looking into this…Gregory Robertson is his name.

#182 Flawed on 08.03.14 at 4:20 pm

And your suggesting that while we walk around and Google Glass in realtime video we are still the same murderous barbarians slicing open women and kids on the plains as we were 150 years ago?

Fail

Could you please explain who the “murderous barbarians slicing open women and kids on the plains” were? The settlers, or the native inhabitants? — Garth

***************************************

Govt employees for the most part. I can provide links if you like?

#183 Flawed on 08.03.14 at 4:22 pm

And your suggesting that while we walk around and Google Glass in realtime video we are still the same murderous barbarians slicing open women and kids on the plains as we were 150 years ago?

Fail

Could you please explain who the “murderous barbarians slicing open women and kids on the plains” were? The settlers, or the native inhabitants? — Garth

*****************************************
Govt has killed more people than all the wars on earth added up together. This is why big govt today is so dangerous.

#184 Linda Mulligan on 08.03.14 at 7:53 pm

#104 Jim – crowdedelevatorfartz is typical of the bitter resentment/justification of taking away DB pension plans, specifically from government workers. What I have asked in the past – is just what is considered a gold plated, rich pension plan by any of those who rail against them. As in, give me a dollar figure per year or per month & define that sum as gross or net income.

Plus, there seems to be a belief that ONLY government workers have DB plans. Not true & as I’ve pointed out CPP is a DB plan which all Canadians have access to, unless they only get paid under the table or never work/pay taxes in Canada, period. Even then they can maybe get CPP benefits if they have a partner whose CPP benefit they inherit when said partner dies…..