So, does it never make sense to buy a house? Some people would have you think that I hate real estate. Like the Globe, which called me the “king of housing bears”. This is ironic, since I’ve written almost as many books on how to buy property, as how to avoid it. At least I now get to wear little crowns on my boxers.
Actually I love real estate, and have owned lots of it. But I also recognize it’s turned from a necessity to a leveraged investment asset, into a cultish obsession. With so many people owning, housing’s now viewed as riskless. Those without it feel disenfranchised. Kids buy condos before they get cars. Weird.
(I recall my parents asked my rebellious older brother when he was 17 what he wanted as a graduation gift. A car, he said. So they did. He got in and drove away. Forever. Made perfect sense to me at the time.)
Anyway, a house since provides shelter and emotional security. Astutely bought, and wisely financed, it can make you long-term money. Gains are tax-free. You can borrow against it, rent it or expand it. Your mom will be proud. But against all these positives are a growing stack of negatives, chief among them the massive debt involved in buying an asset at historic-high levels. This means as prices rise, so does the risk of paying too much – especially when interest rates inevitably creep up and the debt gets ugly.
So, buy if you can truly afford it, and if the real estate represents a reasonable amount of your net worth. That does not mean 5% down with a 3% cash-back mortgage if you’re a burger-slinger at Wendy’s.
But here are two other examples of when being an owner beats being a renter. Or, rather, when renting sucks. First, here’s Mark in West Van:
“My wife and I just rented a house in West Vancouver. 2 year lease for $4000 per month. Our landlord and agency said they wouldn’t list the house before I’d agree to sign the lease. Two months after we moved in she listed the house for almost $500,000 over assessed value, which has almost no chance of actually selling.
“So we could easily be harassed by potential buyers for the whole lease, just in case of the off chance that someone wants to severely overpay for the house. $1.81 million assessed, $2.3 million price. What would you do if this happened to you?”
First, Mark, I’d pay my lawyer two hundred bucks to send the LL a letter alleging breach of contract, since verbal assurances given to you formed a critical part of your decision to lease the home. It’s worth a shot. Lots of landlords want nothing to do with legal action, since it’s costly and protracted. And I hope your lease was properly papered.
But according to BC tenancy legislation if the owner sells the property and the new owner (or a family member) wants to move in, you have to move out (after two months), unless you have a fixed-term lease. But it has to be done properly – your existing landlord must receive a written request from the new owner prior to serving you notice. Ask to see it. The request must say the new owner requires vacant possession in order to move in. If this request does not exist, or the new owner wants to do something else with the property, you can stay
By the way, if you are kicked out after the house sells, after the vacant possession request is made, after you receive notice, and after two more months, then you must receive a month’s rent as compensation.
In Ontario the Landlord & Tenant Act says you can be evicted if the LL sells to someone who will move in (or his family), “however, a tenant can only be evicted at the end of their tenancy and only if the Board issues an eviction order.”
Now, here’s another problem, from Mike who apparently dissed me in the past (before he required free advice):
“My name is Mike and I read your weblog everyday and post comments. I apologize for anything I have posted that was in-appropriate. I have a problem and some questions I am hoping you can help with. The condo I am renting has been foreclosed on. I was served with a notice this morning. I mostly have questions about my rights. I think the foreclosure happened July 4th, 2014. How long do I have before I am told to leave? Do I keep paying rent? I sent post dated cheques, should I put stop payment on them?
“I really don’t know where to start or what to do. “
When a LL goes paws up, the bank’s right to collect on the mortgage debt takes precedence over your right to live there. This is a pain, but I sure expect to see a lot more of it in the future since so many amateur landlords own properties that are cash-flow negative.
You should have received a court document called a Petition, Mike, delivered to you. It spells out how long the owner has to pay outstanding arrears before being forced to sell (usually six months). You should go to the court house and file a Response to the Petition which will then entitle you to receive copies of all documents, so you know what’s going on. You have 21 days to do so.
Do you keep on paying rent? Yes, you must until you get a court document naming a new owner. The court might inform you that the property can be shown to prospective buyers, and you must accommodate that. Finally, if the court tells you there’s been a sale, or a change in title, you’ll be given a possession date by which you must split. That is, unless you contact the new owner and work out a new lease.
In general, renters are subsidized by owners. Often massively. In every major city (even Calgary), it costs less to rent a condo or a home than to own it, once all the costs are factored in. And yet scores of silly people have purchased properties thinking they can lease them out, and get on the path to real estate riches. Many are learning otherwise. And this is why sales and foreclosures happen.
So, you can accept the reality, move and enjoy subsidized rent again. Or you can buy, and roll the dice.
128 comments ↓
Early today Garth.
Recently returned from my annual Muskoka pilgrimage. Wow, is the RE insanity ever in overdrive up there.
Cottage across from where we were staying wasn’t in a particularly amazing location, and is fit for a tear-down only. Still the owners are asking $700k (down from a staggering $1m earlier this year).
I also noticed a lot more “For Sale” signs than at any other time in the years I’ve been vacationing in Cottage Country.
CMHC is actually getting nervous/interested in who is buying all those shoe-boxes? :)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-28/opaque-condo-buyer-data-prompts-cmhc-investor-report.html
When my last lease expired the LL decided to move back in. I had to move. It sucks, but I’m in better digs now. Alls well that ends well.
This is the first time I got a headache reading your blog.
http://postimg.org/image/ep6p8y1fx/
Renting a house is probably in our future, though I am leery of being forced to move out before we want to by the landlord. Nice to know Ontario law offers that much protection. Post bookmarked for future reference, thank you Garth!
Bubbles deflate !
How can one obtain information on foreclosed properties in GTA? Do banks list these somewhere?
I know from my US experience that foreclosures/short sales are difficult to deal with but nevertheless I could use the info but wouldnt expect them to post on mls for us mere mortals to purchase “discounted” properties
Thanks
Mike
I bought outside Halifax about 20 minutes to town, 149 900. About same or cheaper than renting anything close. Even apartments are nuts here now for the wages around here.
You seem to be saying that the guy with the 2 year lease can be evicted if the owner sells during the term of the lease.
“If you have a fixed term lease, your landlord cannot give you a two month notice for landlord use of property. Even if the property you live in is sold, the new owners cannot evict you before your lease has expired.”
http://www.tenants.bc.ca/main/?evictions
About the cultish obsession, it is very interesting spending time in cities with vibrant economies. People in Seattle, New York, London, SF and the rest are certainly interested in housing. However, they spend an awful lot of time talking about their careers and aspirations. Housing is super expensive in some of those cities, but there isn’t the same obsession with RE as one finds in Vancouver or Toronto.
Why? My suspicion is that RE is one of the only ways to make money. People in general (surgeons and overpaid public servants excluded) can’t generate any savings from their employment, since so much of their income goes to living costs. Nor do you find the opportunities for career growth outside the public sector, and even then those are riddled with nepotism.
Hence, RE is one of the only ways to get ahead. Instead of sinking money into new businesses, Canadians salivate over the prospects of getting wealthy by buying a decaying walkup or a shoddily built condo.
Car before house? Check!
Still feel miniscule compared to others here? Definitely checked.
Reality? Checked.
Renting beats owning HANDS DOWN. imho.
“Sutherland defined a white-collar crime as “a crime committed by a person of respectability and high social status in the course of his occupation” (White-Collar Crime, 1949). He believed that white-collar crime was among the most dangerous types of crime in the modern world.”…”coining the phrase white-collar criminal in a speech to the American Sociological Association on December 27, 1939. In his 1949 monograph White-Collar Crime he defined a white-collar crime “approximately as a crime committed by a person of respectability and high social status in the course of his occupation.”
==================
some other reasons for foreclosures:
Asset Quality Misrepresentation by Financial Intermediaries: Evidence from RMBS Market
Piskorski, Tomasz and Seru, Amit and Witkin, James, Asset Quality Misrepresentation by Financial Intermediaries: Evidence from RMBS Market (February 12, 2013). Columbia Business School Research Paper No. 13-7. Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=2215422 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2215422
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/07/doj-trains-ausas-chase-mice-lions-roam-campsite.html#more-8445
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From the Department of Justice:
“For more than three years, traders at Lloyds manipulated the bank’s LIBOR submissions for three currencies to benefit the trading positions of themselves and their friends, to the detriment of the parties on the other side of the trades,” said Assistant Attorney General Caldwell. “Because investors and consumers rely on LIBOR’s integrity, rate-rigging fundamentally undermines confidence in financial markets. Lloyds is the fifth major financial institution that has admitted LIBOR manipulation and paid a criminal penalty, and nine individuals have been criminally charged by the Justice Department. Our active investigation continues, as we work to restore trust in the markets.”
Lots of people making very poor housing decisions. Even in my own circle, I see it all the time. A couple friend of Mme Shellacque, 2 immigrants who both work but don’t speaka de English well, owned a serviceable bungalow in a larger Ontario city. They’d managed to build up about 100 grand in equity. Not content with their digs, they decided to trade up. Sold and bought a new $420,000 cookie cutter build, on a lot not even sodded in a development with nary a sidewalk, with the proceeds of their sale. Turned $100,000 grand in equity into $320,000 of debt. He 50ish, she 38ish. 25 year mortgage. He’s already older than his home nation’s life expectancy. These aren’t flippers, only people who’ve decided to go native and get their hands on the biggest house whose monthly mortgage they can pay. They may not be ruined if (when?) prices drop, but they’ll certainly retire a lot less comfortably, if at all.
#2 Mike…..it is easy enough to find out who owns a property by matching a SIN against the property roll…..Rev/Can already has access to this and routinely trolls for flippers. So….the idea that the gove doesn’t already know what percentage of purchases are HAM is ludicrous…..they just don’t want to rock the ethic vote boat. HAM Is a bigger part of the equation than any one in politically correct circles wants to admit. But at the point where huge mumbers of HAM were to go TU on their subsidized ‘loans’…the the CMHC wants to point the finger elsewhere. The fact that they have announced that HAM is a concern is an indication that bad statistics are already starting to show up and someone is trying to cover their a-holes before the big announcement.
http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/7/28/Opaque-condo-buyer-data-prompting-Canada-housing-agency-report.aspx
@#8 Polecat
“20 minutes outside Halifax……”
Bedford? Lake Echo? Prospect?
#10 james:
You are so right! For the rest of us who actually have “real jobs”, not BS ones, financial security actually matters.
I think this RE obsession points to how insecure people really are about their futures. So far housing has been the only (so far) way of really making a good buck (or so the story goes). College and university doesnt pay off for everyone. With so many people being laid off, etc, I think it just makes sense to the average joe. It really is a last resort.
#10 – you sound defeated. I’m no surgeon and I’ve never worked in the Public sector, yet I save lots a month, own RE, and travel… and I rent where I live!
You determine what you earn and save through hard work, not complaining.
Exactly the reason I live in a rental building rather than rent a condo. As long as I pay my very reasonable rent I can stay as long as I want. Some people in my building have lived here for decades.
If Mark in West Van has a signed 2 year lease his landlord or the new owner of the property, cannot kick him out until the 2 years is up. If the property is sold, the new owner inherits Mark and his lease with the property. In the event that the new owner wants the property vacant the only way to do it is to get Mark to willingly agree. The best way to get someone to agree to something is to pay them:-)
I paid some tenants with a fixed lease, 5k to get out of a property I owned because the buyer wanted them out.
It was worth it to me, to get the sale to go through and it certainly wasn’t a 2.3million house. I wonder what it would be worth to the owner of Marks house to get a buyer to sign on the bottom line? He could be looking at quite a nice payday.
More of a problem is realtors dragging people through all the time, which could be quite an inconvenience. Remember Mark they have to give you 24 hours notice and you don’t have to do anything (clean, tidy etc) in fact you don’t even have to leave the house. It doesn’t sound like your LL has been very upfront with you and you don’t owe them anything. If they are dinks about it, feel free to be sitting in the living room in your ginch watching this most vile porn you can stomach while a pot of tripe boils away happily in the kitchen, as they bring prospective buyers through.
Good advice Garth, although I would never rent or buy in Vancouver at these crazy prices with so little tenants’ rights, and so much greed and speculation going on.
Moving every two months can get costly, but with amateur real estate ownership being the new provincial pastime, it’s pretty hard to avoid being flipper fodder.
Apt building bought recently in North Van by new Canadians to be.
88 units – 25 million.
So what? — Garth
Ok, I’ve seen enough…when are you going to admit your a Redditor Garth? There’s no shame in it, the truth shall set you free.
#10 james on 07.28.14 at 6:18 pm
I lived in London for 10 years and come back in 2013 and I can assure you that Londoners [and Brits in general] have a very unhealthy obsession with real estate and talking about it.
Good examples of bad news Garth.
Yes, $hit happen$. I like to not get blindsided like Mark and Mike, however, better research and actions by both of them could have prevented these 2 events from being able to happen in the first place.
No worries though, as problems like these are really minor if creative thinking is used to deal with either problem without causing you any harm in any way.
Highlights the significance of being liquid in every way in your life, whether renting or owning. For me personally, I manage my life in every way so as not to be at anyone’s mercy, because as you can see with Marks LL, as hard as it is to believe, there is people in the world who do not have your best interests in mind.
I can leave on 1 months notice, and they can keep the $300 deposit. I have the credit rating, references, and income that LL’s die for to have as tenants. It is not difficult to negotiate by my rules with a LL I am willing to rent from. Keeps me away from problems, after all, the most important thing in the world is looking after MY freedom first. No exception. Oh, being a nice person with a pleasant and respectful attitude and demeanor is a HUGE plus in all business dealings. Inspires trust.
Too bad all the financially mathematically challenged still believe that their primary residence is tax free.
The only reason the Canadian and provincial governments throw them a bone is by the time they pay all their property taxes, utilities, H.S.T, land transfer taxes, annual increases amounting to 300% in 20 to 25 years, mortgage interest and payments, moving expenses, renovations, repairs, maintenance, assessment increases etc. they have drained them dry.
You want to have $3,000,000 less in your pocket by retirement and $150,000 less a year in annual income, buy a $650,000 house today.
A correction to my last post above, it is $3,000,000 in retirement and $150,000 of annual income lost by retirement for each spouse.
Yes, $6,000,000 in lost retirement investments and $300,000 in lost annual income from buying a $650,000 house today.
Enjoy your capital gains tax free bone!
Dollarama carries three levels of toilet paper:
– Fluff, $1
– Royal, $2
– Charmin $3
Something for everyone.
I picked a really shit time to quit drinking..
The desperation to pin MH17 on Russia while giving it an invoice for 50 billion. Youth unemployment in European countries crazy high. Isreal Palestinian a side show distraction.
Saw a clip of that IMF Lady talking about 7s… And history. North Korea saying it’s going to Nuke the white house.
And Vladimir not worried about the invoice. The bilgerent effort by MSM to demonize Russia on a faked audio, produced on the 16th of July complimented by a Google maps photo from 2010..market with a green highliter.
Glad I never quit smoking, ate burgers and fries, to late for the LCBO now….
For everything else, South Side Johnnys..
A house should cost you 3 to 4 times your family household income. If there is a bubble, and you absolutely ‘HAVE-to-BUY’, then you can stretch that to about 5 times your family’s income, but ABSOLUTELY NO MORE than that. Anything more is suicide for your finances. So if your wife is earning $150,000 and you are earning $280,000 per year, then that is a family income of $430,000 per year. Multiply that by 4 times and that’s $1.7 Million. So if you can find a house in the Greater Toronto area that is less than $1.7 Million then that’s okay, that is realistic and affordable for your level of income.
it really is funny money:
http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/cbc-news/mount-edith-cavell-removed-from-new-dollar10-bill-description
#PoorKid… #NeverHadAChance. #Meanwhile,BackInJollyeOldeEnglande… #DameJudyBeatsTheRap.
http://youtu.be/rWflrCrwUSw
Garth, I think you wear the crown the Globe bestowed upon you with distinction. Your opinions are shared by many highly credentialed economists both inside and outside of the country. Anyone with a basic ability to think through a problem realizes salaries have in no way kept up with the stunning price increases in housing. Anyone with basic math skills can figure out the impact rate increases would have on people who think borrowing three quarters of a million dollars over 30 years is no big deal. (most ignorant of the early 1980’s) The real truth is that the major newspapers and other press are pretty much under the control of governmental forces or in the clutches of big corporations. They rarely print the truth anymore. They never ask the serious questions. If they did they would be asking why the USA has not responded to repeated requests to tell us what the satellite records show over the area where the plane went down in the Ukraine. Never mind the crash site investigation. The satellite records will show exactly who fired what. But the press is complicit in avoiding the truth. The cartel, the developers, the construction industry, and the feds are all in on it. Big advertising dollars at stake and the fate of a nation. If Garth Turner is the ‘King of Housing Bears”……Long Live the King!
(I recall my parents asked my rebellious older brother when he was 17 what he wanted as a graduation gift. A car, he said. So they did. He got in and drove away. Forever. Made perfect sense to me at the time.)
*****************
Sad. Parents don’t deserve this. His loss.
Emotional security comes from within. No material object or symbol can provide that. None.
Recently transferred from Maritimes to GTA on a 2-5yr work assignment. We sold our house and are renting a nice one here for much less than what it would cost to buy. Equity from our house sale in a secure savings and investing difference between rent / mortgage payments each month as well as what we’d be paying in property tax. Aside from having to put up with the many who think we’re nuts renting (and who think we’re missing out because, you know, house prices will rise forever) it’s been great and we’d highly recommend it to others in our situation!
Garth you didnt address my last comment :)
I want to buy 1 to 3 condos and hope to get about 10% to 15% return. I know it sounds outrageous but I have the money for them.
I want to do that or invest in ETFs. What do you think I should do?
Thanks
#2 Mike
————————-
Who is buying these shoe boxes? my guess is 90 % are bought by Canadian ‘investors’.
Real estate agents are trying very hard to sell the ‘news’ that foreigners are buying in the major condo markets.
I have heard many people bragging in the subway, at different offices, in public… about how they bought ‘investment’ condos with minimum down payment leveraged to the max. with hope of future appreciation and easy highly leveraged profit. Folks in the financial industry, services, government.
Most of the new condos are substandard, with glass walls and lighter foundations, horrible insulation that scream for horrendously high future maintenance fees.
Private builders are making huge money building crappy condos with maximum profits and minimum care, falling glasses are part of life in down town To.
Canadians buy them for speculation. Banks will not insure these highly leveraged purchases if not for CMHC.
This is why I keep insisting that our bubble is much worse then the Irish one, the deflated by 50 % and I continue to disagree with al these call for mild correction.
The worse is that people like B.J.Lamb,notable economists at banks,… are openly laughing at the ‘bears’ while using the situation to make quick irresponsible buck.
When this thing blows it is going to be big, we could be looking easily at 60-70 % correction in the most bubbly markets and if thins coincides with international currency storm we are going to be all toast big time paying collectively for government stupidity and banks irresponsibility.
I don’t frankly care about people who go bankrupt but I definitely am not going to pay for the fallout. If it takes to move out of the country, so be it.
#TheTroubleWithMonicas… #”IWillRevertToMyFormerStatement.”
http://youtu.be/T6Imq-rKrLg
#29 Smoking Man on 07.28.14 at 8:55 pm — “The desperation to pin MH17 on Russia while giving it an invoice for 50 billion. Youth unemployment in European countries crazy high. Isreal Palestinian a side show distraction. . . And Vladimir not worried about the invoice.”
Hi SMan. The western-spewed Propaganda horseshit is losing its’ luster (finally).
When things get really bleak, it will be an excellent time for China, Russia and 130 or more other countries to ditch the petro-dollar and fly with something better, and a helluva lot more stable.
Youth unemployment? Riot! Nothing to lose. Palestine – Israel? Ignore the surface stuff and look what is below. Gaza and Palestine are sitting on a shit load of oil and natural gas, and Israel wants it before Russia turns off the gas pipelines.
Think things are bad now? You ain’t seen nuthin’ yet!
If you require staying put at one address for a length of time as a renter, you must make sure you have a lease in place, and not just month to month. Renew the lease 3 months before it is up, if landlord refuses, start looking right away. An unrenewed lease automatically rolls over into a monthly rental, unless it is a special (and rare for residential) fixed-term closed lease, where you must move out at the end (or negotiate a new lease, of course).
Everyone, including landlords, should read their province’s Tenancy Act (BC http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/content/legislationRules/). It’s quite readable, if you put some effort into it instead of watching TV one evening.
#10 james on 07.28.14 at 6:18 pm
I think you’ve nailed it, especially in Vancouver. Couldn’t agree more. The high cost of living here absolutely does not reflect median or average local incomes. Many of my peers (late Gen X), spent the first decade or more after post-secondary school in debt up their eyeballs from student loans, under-employed, working several sh*tty jobs just to barely pay the bills. (This was the norm, not the exception). There was no money left over for savings, and less than nothing left over to buy a starter home/condo/whatever. The only ones who found some financial success by age 30 were either in the trades, went in to the family business, or are entrepreneurs who started their own businesses. (Same points you make, this has also been my experience). These were also the ones who hit the career ground running without massive student loan debt, and were the first to own their own homes. I have good friends who still rent, as they can’t afford anything decent (read: super modest starter home in an ok area of Greater Van) in their sensible price range, values are so skewed here, and have been for almost 10 years now. And these are people making well over the “average” and “median” household income in the lower mainland. In the last 3 years, I’ve known 3 families/couples who’ve packed up out of the blue and moved away to pursue better career opportunities. (Also making well over the average and median incomes here). Several work colleagues have also left the BC lower mainland in recent years for the same reasons. Everyone’s headed east, to the Okanagan, or Alberta. It’s hard to truly get ahead here unless your income is earned elsewhere. I really wonder what will happen come retirement age for the average Vaincouverite.
#7 Montellino
Foreclosures sell at market price. It might be at a discount, if there is damage.
Meant to add that the other primary reason the people I know who have left the lower mainland in recent years was not only for good paying job opportunities, but a drastically cheaper cost of living.
Nosty
Hi SMan. The western-spewed Propaganda horseshit is losing its’ luster (finally).
What do you think will happen when the men behind the curtains finally realize they’ve lost the minds of the herd.
They aren’t going to go down with out a fight.
My Call…… Ebola for all desenteters…
Time to take out mortgage…
@40 Nosty:
Nosty, your propaganda horseshit link is a bomb of astronomic proportions! I am still having my doubts, but this new info ties perfectly with an unexplainable diversion of the MH17 flight 200 miles east from the MH usual flight routes (to be over the conflict zone) and with the “funny info” about a Spanish flight controller.
I expect that at least European news agencies should blast this news (I am an avid EuroNews reader/watcher).
Monica : I want to buy 1 to 3 condos and get about 10% to 15% return.
second time you’ve posted Monica
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2014/07/25/knowledge/#comment-316302
somebody with a $ million and a serious question can just hire Garth for his opinion – you don’t have to take it
From the Automatic earth…should put to rest the nonsense of a US “recovery”
Meanwhile, at home, whenever you see someone anyone talk about ‘recovery’, you now know they’re full of it. The Russell Sage Foundation issued a 2-page report that makes clear ‘recovery’ is about the worst possible and least applicable term to use to describe what is happening in the US economy.
Households at the “median point in the wealth distribution – the level at which there are an equal number of households whose worth is higher and lower”, saw their wealth plummet -36% from 2003 to 2013. From the highest point, in 2007, to 2013 the number is -43%.
Five years after 2008 and Lehman, five years into the alleged recovery, which raised US federal, Federal Reserve, and hence taxpayer, obligations by $10-$15 trillion or more, US median household wealth was down -36% from 2003. And that’s by no means the worst of it:
If you look at the 5th and 25th percentile ‘wealth’ numbers (much of it negative), you see that they went down from 2003 to 2007, while the median was still rising. For both, wealth in the 2003-2013 timeframe deteriorated by some -200% (or two-thirds, if you will). -$9,479 to -$27,416 for the poorest 5%, $10.219 to $3,2000 for the lowest 25%.
This is how Washington defines recovery. Just in case you were wondering.
But they’re going to talk about it again, you just wait for it, just like they’re going to continue to blame Putin and the rebels for everything that goes wrong in Ukraine. They’re not going to stop until they have control over Russia’s resources, no matter what the body count, and they’re not going to stop until most Americans are de facto debt slaves.
And Uncle Sam counts on you! To swallow it all hook line and sinker. It works like a charm to date.
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/debt-rattle-jul-28-2014-washington-thinks-americans-are-fools/
#1 Ray Skunk
Saw the same thing in Long Point (southern Ontario, on Lake Erie). Not nearly as prestigious a location as Muskoka, but a drive to the main beach area shows a stretch of about 5km of cottages/shacks, at least 40% of which had For Sale signs.
Currently live in a large Ontario city (see my post above), on a 850m stretch of road with a mix of towns, duplexes, and detached homes. I am the ONLY renter, and at $1400/mth I pay more to rent than my neighbors do for their mortgages. But they’re stuck – they can’t sell to buy up as prices have gone up for those places they’d normally be looking to get into, and most have spent significant amounts of money on improvements (especially finishing their basements and landscaping). Mme Shellacque thinks we’re crazy to rent, but she is unable to point out any tangible benefit from having a mortgage rather than paying rent. She pulls the “you’re paying someone else’s mortgage” line, but that only works on fools: over the last 3 years that I’ve lived here my investments have made 11%/year (only able to invest because not paying mortgage, property taxes and maintenance)…ie, the landlord is subsidizing me. I think this is a good example of using the info and arguments from this site to not allow oneself to be worn down by emotional appeals.
#46 gladiator on 07.28.14 at 10:08 pm
@40 Nosty:
Nosty, your propaganda horseshit link is a bomb of astronomic proportions! I am still having my doubts, but this new info ties perfectly with an unexplainable diversion of the MH17 flight 200 miles east from the MH usual flight routes (to be over the conflict zone) and with the “funny info” about a Spanish flight controller.
I expect that at least European news agencies should blast this news (I am an avid EuroNews reader/watcher)
…..
I posted it everywhere, waiting for the black SUV to show up and make me go missing…
After I posted it to Facebook… My phone stated acting weird, power drain.
I well, I should have stayed in school and became a sheep..
When the condo I was renting went for sale 2 years ago, it took about 8 months to sell, during which time I had to accommodate probably about a hundred different viewings. I’d estimate about 4 to 5 viewings per week, mostly on weekends but often during the work week too. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to have to let strangers look around in your home several times a week for more than half a year? This is one of the downsides to being a renter. There is no provision in the Residential Tenancy Act that requires the owner/realtor to keep the number of viewings to a reasonable level. By the way this condo was in markham and out of the 100+ viewers, every single one (as well as all the realtors) was of the same ethnicity (I’ll let you guess which one). The unit finally sold to some kid of about 20, a student.
Hi garth,
basically you support buying when it does not put your finances in disarray. but Vancouver will always be crazy. I guess if you earn enough, save enough …that’s ok…even at sky high prices
Just checking MLS again. I always look at some crappy row houses to see how over-valued real estate is. In 2010 they were listed at an average of 180k. Now unrenovated ones are 160k and average is 190k-renovated. In 2011-2013 the cheapest one listed would be about 220k and up.
Houses are now mostly at municipal assessment but it’s not uncommon to see a few listed below. So much for real estate always go up. Glad I listened to Garth and didn’t but during this years!
Garth, I suggest you have a little stop over in cowtown cause you are reading it all wrong. Way way cheaper to own there on a pure cost basis.
Most bungs and 2 storeys are in between $400-550k which can be serviced by $1800/month. Renting the same thing is $2000-2500.
Yikes…just read my previous post and the grammar sucked. Can I blame spellcheck? Last sentence should read- Glad I listened to Garth and didn’t buy during those years! Thank you, O King of Housing Bears!
#48 randman on 07.28.14 at 10:09 pm
You do know that Automatic Earth made a prediction for a 90% fall in all assets classes including canadian housing. So you will be able to get into Van or TO for about $30k soon.
>#10 james
My observation in B.C. life.
I am a immigrant, many of my friends are first generation immigrants, too.
Obssession is Real Estate – primary residence, and as many as possible investment properties, having your tenants is a status.
Second one is being your own boss.
So, first Real Estate, and second small business owner.
Third dining out topics, and as forth, tales of recently became vegetarians.
Nothing about jobs and careers, wait, occasionally about being laid off.
The less confirmed income, the more obsession on those first two.
I didn’t hear same from my colleagues or acquaintances from Toronto, but are thing same like B.C.?
#40 NostyVlad Snugglebombed
…………………..
Invest in BRICS, I always said it.
Russia and specially China will not back off. They will stand their ground, our stupid gamblers don’t know what they are dealing with.
Short of nuclear war we, the ‘international’ community that consists of US, Canada and Britain is doomed if we do not strike a deal. I said it 10 times.
The housing market is just the cherry on top of the pie. Our PM’s article in globe and mail was pathetic, it seems he feels very comfortable telling outright lies. He has negative credibility with me.
Here it is, this is how stupid they are:
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/my-thoughts-on-pat-buchanans-brilliant-and-incisive-take-on-washingtons-ukrainian-fiasco/
#41-
All fixed term leases end on the last day of the lease and you are required to vacate the property. If our tenant is having a tough time finding a new place , we may write a new fixed term one month lease , but only if we like them. Otherwise we are communicating a couple of months in advance of the end date that we won’t be offering a new fixed lease and letting them know – reminding them that they are out at the end of the lease . You are not accurate in it automatically rolls over into a month to month- unless you are a landlord who has let things slip and chosen to ignore your own lease date.
Thanks for the advice. I am definitely going to allow someone to subsidize me once again – I’d be foolish no to!
From the CMHC commentary on their redacted surveys…….
“The survey to be released in August is CMHC’s second attempt. The agency conducted a telephone survey of Toronto and Vancouver condo investors in August 2012 in response to “industry concerns about the extent and nature of condominium investment and its sustainability,” according to a mostly- redacted August 2012 CMHC board presentation. The survey intended to determine what investors planned to do with their units, how long they intended to hold them, what would motivate them to sell, how much they put down and the source of the downpayment.
That survey wasn’t publicly released because it “didn’t produce results that were reliable enough,” CMHC’s Sauriol said in his July 25 e-mail.”
Sounds to me like CMHC didn’t like the slant of the first survey, so they scrapped it, re-rigged the questions to generate the appropriate answers that would result in the statistically required data they want to present and
started over……
A typical action from an organization that is nothing more than a bunch of cheats, thieves, liars and crooks…………
Not surprised to see your dig at the burger-slingers…everyone knows that the real future is in fries…..
#24 Longterm on 07.28.14 at 8:16 pm
#10 james on 07.28.14 at 6:18 pm
I lived in London for 10 years and come back in 2013 and I can assure you that Londoners [and Brits in general] have a very unhealthy obsession with real estate and talking about it.
——————–
Why do Canadian Brits always compare themselves to other British enclaves?
The world has moved on .
Get over it!
I would never dream of paying $4k a month to rent a house, but anyway…
It is a great time to be a renter. Lots of Condos to rent from fools who rushed in. Who knows, if it gets bad enough, maybe some of those posh building will get turned into rental buildings.
Don’t worry Mark. Very possible that you and your wife won’t be bothered by anyone. Don’t know your exact location, but prices in some parts of West Van are dropping like a stone. If you are in a dated ‘tear down’ with a fabulous view (and below the upper levels hwy) there might be some concern, if not sleep easy!
Re: #48 randman on 07.28.14 at 10:09 pm
The U.S. will prove they’re in recovery mode when they dream up some cockamamie figure for the second quarter GDP. Of course they’ll expect everyone to believe it. Everyone will know it’s complete malarkey but that’s all that America has left.
#24 Longterm
Spot on about London. Actually it’s become worse now as the BoE actions have caused London property prices to bounce back very quickly. This means that almost anyone that suffered a paper loss on real estate during the GFC has now more then made up the price drop. Canadians, in comparison, are only just playing catch up when it comes to real estate obsession.
#16, farts, Lawrencetown, 4 years ago. Smaller home and needed some work but is now more efficient and still cheaper than renting. I rented most my life and didn’t mind at all, I moved around the country and got a lot of experience. I actually didn’t want to buy but the math worked versus renting. Still a lot of overpriced ones on market but not much movement, lots of price drops, I think we’re about 2 years inventory now and they are still building condos. Who is buying them? I did some sub contract work in a few, nice bosch appliances and granite, cheap laminate floors and small units. Must be a lot of retirees downsizing, don’t know how they can at the price point. Anyway I like my place, just under an acre and a garden going in next year, will have it paid off fairly early and still be young. My advice to kids here is definitely do not buy, stay mobile and chase the work even if it is going west, most are so I see Nova Scotia becoming a retirement community, scary cause taxes are high and cost of living was actually cheaper in B.C. except for housing of course. Best of luck to all.
For everything else, South Side Johnnys..
Garth, I hope you are getting paid for advertising SSJ’s on here, it seems to get a daily mention now.
Re: rental evictions
It’s the main reason I will not rent from a small landlord who can use the family excuse to kick you out. It’s happened to me a few times in my life and I have personally known a close friend use tre same loophole to get rid of tenants he didn’t want anymore. It’s great cuz nobody can actually verify that a family member of the landlord is residing there.
obviously:
http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/07/28/scotiabank_named_in_silver_pricefixing_lawsuit.html
Here’s a news story for the ages.
Best bits:
Looking over a 2007 report on Irish real estate last week, I got a chill when I ran across this line: “Most available evidence would now appear to suggest that the housing market appears to be on the way to achieving a soft landing.”
Sound familiar? It’s a line Canadians have been hearing for years, recently from Finance Minister Joe Oliver and the Bank of Canada.
Looking at the Irish experience, that “soft landing” assurance might be seen as more of a warning shot…..
But a word of advice to the Irish government: don’t envy us just yet. A decade from now, it might be us looking at you with envy, as the worst will be behind you and your market will be stronger for it. In an effort to prevent a reversal in fortunes between the two countries, we should be taking lessons from you – lessons you learned the hard way. Those include the dangers that stem from a lack of adequate data to study the housing market, the dangers of promoting the idea that homeownership is almost always preferable to renting, the dangers of relying on construction for economic growth, and, importantly, the dangers of assuring people that a soft landing is on the horizon.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/canada-better-served-learning-from-the-housing-crash-in-ireland/article19815811/
After close today (Tuesday) Genworth is declaring earnings. Always curious to see how Canadian mortgage insurers are doing. Until now there’s been no sign of trouble on balance sheets.
Of course that would change if interest rates rise. Until then why wouldn’t they keep making more and more profits. Afterall, didn’t we just read that condos sales are strong? More sales, more mortgages, more money for mortgage insurers.
But today on MarketWatch we learn that rates could go to 4% by thanksgiving. Nooooooo! Sell all your REITs and MICs now! .. sigh… those “journalists”…
#40 NostyVlad Snugglebombed
If one believes each higher level of the pyramid controls the lower…there is no Us and Them.
I find it interesting Haman is a traditional enemy of Jewish people:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haman_(biblical_figure)
The word ‘Hamas’ sure sounds like a plurality of the above. Wait why would they choose someone else’s word for their own organization name. Unless…it’s all the same people funding and controlling both sides from above. If you ask the average person on the street they’ll not want war.
Why Italian males stay home until 30…and don’t really want to leave:
1) You are saving up for the down payment to buy “casa bella”
2) Momma, cooks, cleans and puts away your underwear, with no complaints, grumblings or curses. She considers this her “job”
3) When you come in at 3am and drunk, your dad, nods, winks and says nothing, but both your younger and older sister try this, and they get yelled at, and get a 2 hour lecture on not being a Puttana.
4) When you ask for a veal on a bun, you get a veal on a bun, and not tuna salad. Momma is the best cook.
5) Once you meet your future spouse…it takes 5 years of practice with mamma, just to learn how to make the “sugo sauce” just right….no need to rush into marriage, until your future spouse prefects this.
6) You can sleep in until noon on your day off, and nobody pushes you out of bed early. And mamma makes your dad, stay quiet, cause you need your sleep.
Italian males have it good at home, where families are “tight”. Mind you when dad says it is time to mix cement, you better run and get your gloves, cause he will through his shoes at you if you don’t, and curse like crazy, and call you a “movie star”, and tell you to get up off your cullo and get get busy.
#73 Dominoes Lining Up — “Here’s a news story for the ages.”
One of the items in that story I found most interesting was Genworth’s Canadian SVP suggesting the Irish copy the Canadian CMHC style model. A private insurer only welcomes more government involvement when it fattens the insurer’s bottom line. When CMHC upped its premium rates earlier this year, the private insurers followed suit. Think about that for a minute: Private insurers with no motive but profit were willing to write policies at the old, lower rates, with ‘only’ 90% of their potential losses paid out by the government. And they’d like this deal in Ireland, too.
#29 Smoking Man on 07.28.14 at 8:55 pm
I picked a really shit time to quit drinking..
……………………………………………………………………….
What’s this “I picked a really shit time to quit drinking,” You must have had an epiphany, now you can go an play poker. I’m heading up to Rama this weekend to play some Casino War with a few buddies. One guy has a cottage right around the corner. Lots of drinking, boating and fun. Not necessarily at the same time though. We are not as brave as you going out on your boat drunk, yelling at god to come out for a fight! Going to try to pick one of my friends brains, hes a market analyist and works for one of the big boys downtown. Hopefully some creative info on stocks.
In general, renters are subsidized by owners. Often massively. In every major city (even Calgary), it costs less to rent a condo or a home than to own it, once all the costs are factored in. And yet scores of silly people have purchased properties thinking they can lease them out, and get on the path to real estate riches. Many are learning otherwise. And this is why sales and foreclosures happen.
So, you can accept the reality, move and enjoy subsidized rent again. Or you can buy, and roll the dice.
…………………………………………………………………….
Had this happen ten years ago in West Van, got my ass kicked out of a nice rental that I actually liked. That’s the one reason I will never rent again. I don’t give a shit if I spend some cash on my property, I own it and nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!
@#69
Ah yes Lawrencetown. I know a few people that live on Lawrencetown rd. Nice spot. I just hated the big hill from Cole Harbour in the winter…… Hfx has grown in the past 30 years
How to be a Doomer, when the world will not cooperate
Tony at 67 said:
The U.S. will prove they’re in recovery mode when they dream up some cockamamie figure for the second quarter GDP. Of course they’ll expect everyone to believe it. Everyone will know it’s complete malarkey but that’s all that America has left.
*****************************************
I believe Tony is following the usual path of doomers. I recall some months back he predicted GDP and employment figures would be truly awful.
When did not happen he now turns to saying that the reported figures are not true. You see most all the doomers do this. They claim figures are manipulated, not calculated the right way.
On top of that they usually claim even if there is any good news in the economy, it’s all “fake” because there is debt involved and interest rates are manipulated low.
Doomers also like to lash out at any sign of a contrary view.
Well, maybe someday doomers will get lucky and we will get a world wide depression. They can hardly wait.
Just another note about the UK (for anyone that’s interested). Residential real estate prices in other parts of the UK (e.g. East Midlands and the North) have remained below the pre-crisis levels of 2007 while prices in London and the South East have moved back to peak levels. This contrast hasn’t been caused by over indebtedness by consumers in these areas (although that is a problem in general for the UK). Consumers in London and the South east are just as over indebted as the rest of the UK. The problem is structural unemployment and suppressed wage growth in those areas. I would expect the same to happen in Canada if/when any real estate correction takes place. Real estate in areas with lower proportional economic activity will be impacted more significantly. This is why I believe SFH prices in Toronto (not GTA) are not yet at unsustainable levels.
Not 1st…
“You do know that Automatic Earth made a prediction for a 90% fall in all assets classes including canadian housing. So you will be able to get into Van or TO for about $30k soon.”
Not interested…..at all in living in these dreadful places after retirement ……if it falls to $30K here …it’ll be $10K in Thailand!
How much longer does the real estate cartel think they can hold back the millennial generation. Disruptive technology has overwhelmed and replaced old expensive models in every field of enterprise. Millennials want Facebook for homes and they will get it.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/07/28/zillow_acquires_trulia_could_become_the_facebook_of_homes.html
The greaterfool is one that wanted to buy RE about 5+ years ago and did not. Even if RE would to drop 20% all at once, unlikely to happen, you would still be up a good 20% from over 5 years ago. This is not fantasy, but a fact. It is time to own up Mr. Turner and admit you were wrong on RE, but when it comes to other financial advice, it has been stellar.
CREA says the average price in the summer of 2009 was $318,696. Now it is $413,215. Less 2% closing costs and 5% selling costs, that is an aggregate gain over five years of 21.1%, or 4.2% annually. During this time a balanced portfolio has returned an average of 10.1%. A 20% drop now would wipe out a half-decade of real estate gains. Stop embarrassing yourself. — Garth
#81 — “Well, maybe someday doomers will get lucky and we will get a world wide depression. They can hardly wait.”
Let us hope not, because things will not be exciting as some doomers may thin, it will be a time that most of us have no clue of what it would be like, I had a taste of back in the old country, but still probably did not measure up to the crash and depression of the thirties.
#25 Freedom First: “….they can keep the $300 deposit.”
******************
They always find an excuse to keep it…
#79
I own it and nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!
————————–
Tell that to those who have had their land expropriated for highways, airports, etc. Anyway…
I have friends who was kicked out of their cosy (and below market cost) rental by the LL for a “family occupant” who never materialized.
Luckily they’d become close friends with the other renters in the building who backed them up at the tribunal. The punishment was meek; moving costs of $1100 and something like $500 in damages.
What a deterrent when the LL can make that back in 4-5 months from the next renter.
Stop paying your property taxes and then come back here to tell us how “nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!”
Housing cultists like you crack me up. As devoid of logic as you are of liquid and diversified cash flow.
Re: #81 Shawn on 07.29.14 at 9:19 am
Remember the laugher about the .1 percent GDP in America in the first quarter when they first reported it?
#51 Vstrom Rider
“Do you have any idea how annoying it is to have to let strangers look around in your home several times a week for more than half a year? ”
If you owned (and lived in) the place, you would be equally annoyed by the visits. And the pressure to keep the house neat is even more annoying when you own.
It peaked at 69.2% in June 2004. Still different here though.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-29/u-s-homeownership-rate-falls-to-lowest-in-19-years.html
… “turned from a necessity to a leveraged investment asset”
That’s the story of our age …. the Financialization of Everything! Why do companies not invest in the real economy? Because it’s easier to speculate (shadow banking system) and invest abroad (no more restrictions on capital flows).
“How to be a Doomer, when the world will not cooperate”?
Ask Gary Shilling.
Vacation homes abound in Vancouver and Richmond.
So are job opportunities in the Empty House Managment field.
Only people good at flushing toilets need apply.
Probably not enough Canadians who are qualified.
So, they’ll go for FTWs.
Please! Somebody kick me out of my bloody rental!
Great blog today.
It hits it right on the nail. We always bought way below the amount the bank said we could afford, and thus avoided having a big fat mortgage. This way, we were able to pay the mortgage quickly and invest at the same time. And while not being able to really time the market, one can tell whether it is the right time to buy or not, and this is not the time definitely. I would wait a couple of years after interest rates have started to rise, and rise they will.
It was unbelievable actually even back in 2001 how much the bank was willing to lend us. I am sure it is even worse today, it makes people feel rich and flatter them but the only winner is the bank.
We know friends who look like they fell in for this, and they seem stressed by their obligations. I would too if I were them.
Does anyone really believe Canada is a sovereign nation anymore?
Excerpts from a new Wall Street Journal article, titled “Canada Banks Tally Their US Tax Compliance Tab”:
A U.S. law aimed at cracking down on tax evasion by expatriates has collectively cost Canada’s five biggest banks about 750 million Canadian dollars (US$693.5 million) in initial compliance expenses, according to people familiar with the matter.
Although the price tag varies by bank, it is estimated that some Canadian banks spent C$150 million to meet the July 1 deadline, according to three people familiar with the matter. Two of those people said the group’s cumulative spending on upfront costs such as employees, training, technology and other processes could be as much as C$1 billion.
Canadian banks say they also face continuing compliance costs. Those expenses, which have yet to be quantified, will accumulate as staff respond to queries from customers and supplementary data requests from tax officials. Additionally, there are expected to be continuing costs for employee training due to anticipated turnover.
There is no comprehensive estimate for the amount banks around the world will spend to adhere to FATCA requirements. London-based Crossbridge, an investment-bank consultancy, previously forecast that medium-size banks would spend between US$150 million and US$200 million each to comply with FATCA.
Canadian banks aren’t publicly disclosing their compliance costs because they aren’t expected to be material to overall financial results. The costs will be lumped into another category such as noninterest expense, potentially over several quarters.
With FATCA now in force, Canadian banks are also wary of antagonizing U.S. government officials, given the importance of U.S. capital markets.
Some dual citizens also are considering a constitutional challenge through the Canadian court system. The Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty is trying to raise up to C$1.5 million to pursue legal action.
“I resent the fact the Government of Canada is going to be forcibly turning over my information. That’s a violation of my privacy,” said chair Stephen Kish. “Canada has decided to cede control of its lawmaking ability to the U.S.”
“There’s very little awareness amongst the public in general on this,” said one senior bank executive. “They don’t understand that really the U.S. government has turned the world banking system into another collection arm for the IRS.”
http://online.wsj.com/articles/canada-banks-tally-their-tax-compliance-tab-1406504252
To All: Huffington Post, now! Blackberry, is going to sell upwards of 30,000 units to the German Gov. Because it can.
If this information page from the Mennonite credit union was the first thing I ever read about FATCA, I’d think I was hallucinating being in Nazi Germany! I thought I was pretty hardened, but that gave me major anxiety.
https://www.mscu.com/Banking/FATCAMemberInformation/
#81 Shawn,
Its not about being a doomer, its about looking at the world for what it is a putting the pieces together. If you can not see it now… Well I feel for you, cause soon it be impossible to avoid.
We ‘doomers’ do not want any of this, quite the contrary, we have been trying to warn people what lies ahead
Nano-Technology in chemtrails, heavy, I know, right?
The rabbit hole is very deep my friend
CMHC is a scam of monstrous scale.
Why do the mortgages need to be insured? What is the incentive for the banks to lend prudently?
If there is a need for mortgage insurance it should be private. But I doubt such need. The banks should take their risks.
As I truly believe our banks are prudent in their lending practices and there are rich foreigners lining up to buy Real estate (/sarcasm off) here I would think on proposing and backing for the next elections a party and leader who would reject the CMHC liabilities and transfer them back to the banks along with the premiums. Banks should rejoice, these are easy money according to their own words.
And…talking about cars today (more or less), this is another way that people get into real trouble really fast – rolling negative equity into a new car lease..that’s another blog for another day.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/being-upside-down.html
US housing is so different:
“Homeownership in the United States fell again in the second quarter to the lowest level since the third quarter of 1995, suggesting many Americans are becoming renters.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-homeownership-at-18-year-low-in-second-quarter-2014-07-29?link=MW_story_latest_news
“Its not about being a doomer, its about looking at the world for what it is a putting the pieces together. If you can not see it now… Well I feel for you, cause soon it be impossible to avoid.
We ‘doomers’ do not want any of this, quite the contrary, we have been trying to warn people what lies ahead
Nano-Technology in chemtrails, heavy, I know, right?
The rabbit hole is very deep my friend”
Agreed SW …how convenient it is to call us doomers and so dismissive
In the end it’ll be too late …this blog will be shut before we have a chance to say..”told you so”
I’m a gold bug but I’ve got nothing to gain and don’t sell it…I couldn’t give a rats ass if anyone here buys gold or not…any buying coming from bloggers here hasn’t a hope in hell of moving markets so who cares…listen to what you will and decide …but..we’ve warned you!
Garth,
The greatest good you could do is present a factual dissertation in which you discredit the “immigration” and “foreign money” rationales cited by real estate believers.
You must have better sources than the rest of us web-hunters?
“The study points to a disturbing trend: The share of Americans in collections has remained relatively constant, even as the country as a whole has whittled down the size of its credit card debt since the official end of the Great Recession in the middle of 2009.”
http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/business-news/study-35-per-cent-in-us-facing-debt-collectors-1
#89 Ogopogo on 07.29.14 at 11:20 am
#79 :):(Ying Yang on 07.29.14 at 9:09 am
I will never rent again. I don’t give a shit if I spend some cash on my property, I own it and nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!
Stop paying your property taxes and then come back here to tell us how “nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!”
Housing cultists like you crack me up. As devoid of logic as you are of liquid and diversified cash flow.
………………………………………………………………………..
Don’t be such a #$%^ you pay taxes no matter what! If you rent your indirectly paying taxes through your LL, duhh, if you own your directly paying taxes. If you stop paying your rent, mortgage taxes or for that matter anything else you owe money on eventually someone will come calling demanding ass, cash or grass to get their pound of flesh. The rationale behind my statement was “I decide where and how long I live as long as I can afford it” no deadbeat LL is going to decide to boot my ass out on the street. As for the rest of the scenarios give me a break, I don’t think a new expressway will go right through a developed neighborhood expropriating my property. When was the last time you saw that in Toronto? NEVER, most of the expressways planned here, canceled here due to tree hugging activists that seduce the governments.
Doomers selectively believe government figures?
Tony at 90 apparently accepts government figures (only) when they support his case that the economy is not growing.
He said:
“Remember the laugher about the .1 percent GDP in America in the first quarter when they first reported it?”
In an earlier post he said the government would provide a cockamamie made up figure for GDP for second quarter.
It’s okay to be a doomer (though it must suck) but my point is that first they predict low growth and low stock prices (or crashing house prices). Then if that does not happen, someone must be manipulating the figures or it’s “fake” due to low interest rates and debt. And many Doomers then lash out at anyone who does agree.
#89 Ogopogo on 07.29.14 at 11:20 am
#79 :):(Ying Yang on 07.29.14 at 9:09 am
I will never rent again. I don’t give a shit if I spend some cash on my property, I own it and nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!
Stop paying your property taxes and then come back here to tell us how “nobody can kick my ass out again. EVER!!!!!”
Housing cultists like you crack me up. As devoid of logic as you are of liquid and diversified cash flow.
____________________________________________
It appears that renting cultists like you crack me up. Logic has no bounds when you can do what you want with your cash and nobody else can make decisions on your behalf. How do you know Ying Yang is devoid of cash?
I don’t know where you live, no do I care but to each his or her own, some like to rent and not necessarily be in command of their humble abode. Whilst others like to be in much more control of the domicile as they actually have a vested interest and cash investment.
So I surmise you rent? Good for you! Glad that works for you. Hope your cash investments are working out great. Not everyone has your particular view on where to put their cash. “Feeling perfect right now? Hope that bubble doesn’t burst on you.”
97 WhiteKat on 07.29.14 at 12:52 pm
“Does anyone really believe Canada is a sovereign nation anymore?”
——————————————–
Seriously? With a little old English lady with a penchant for funny hats as Head of State and her appointed representative’s stamp of approval and signature required before Acts of Parliament can become law?
Canada is a confederation of squabbling Nations; there is not now, nor has there ever been a “Canadian Nation”, much less a sovereign one.
Perhaps one day….
http://www.garrisonpointcondos.net/me/
Offering 19.1% ROI. Greater fools will be running to snap these up?
I will have more to say on this in a few hours. — Garth
Our allies in the middle east. Cuz we need allies to help us against those nasty terrorists that are pouring into Canada right? Not.
http://www.conservativeoutfitters.com/blogs/news/14975921-saudi-family-brutally-beats-maid-hanging-upside-down-from-hook
#108 Shawn on 07.29.14 at 2:01 pm
Doomers selectively believe government figures?
**************************************
Huh? Hey Shawn how about the govt HIDING all the ham numbers that they absolutely know via SIN ownership of homes but will not release for fear of a housing meltdown.
How about the global “cooling” taking place because of numbers the govt does not wish to release about abundant sea ice (oh but Gore says we can now row a boat through the top of Canada now).
So which is it Shawn? Don’t believe the govt? Or believe them when they say they have no numbers to believe?
#48 randman
I enjoyed reading your passionate rant.
Now that you’ve properly vented and cooled off, please help us understand just exactly how you’ve made use of your valuable insights and truths to profit over the past five years or so?
You’ve given us a reeking pile of manure. Give us an equal portion of something we can take to the bank.
#100 SWL1976 on 07.29.14 at 1:04 pm
==========
Do you really believe in chemtrails?
#108 Shawn on 07.29.14 at 2:01 pm
Doomers selectively believe government figures?
Tony at 90 apparently accepts government figures (only) when they support his case that the economy is not growing.
———————-
Could that be a case of cognitive bias?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
Best,
HD
77 million Americans face debt collection.
Is that a USA economic renaissance?
Corporate earnings up 8.2%. 78% of companies beat expectations. US GDP in Q2 expected to be 3.4%. Yes. — Garth
Could that be a case of cognitive bias?
Yes, and we all suffer from it we all look for evidence to confirm our existing beliefs and we tend to filter out contrary evidence.
I’d rather be biased to the belief that the economy provides me many opportunities rather than biased that we are all doomed.
Windsor and Ontario doing well?
A senior Edmonton Journal columnist visited family in Windsor and found it fairly booming.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/Lamphier+Summertime+Ontario+livin+easy+despite+what/10070506/story.html
#113 – don’t want to derail, but it’s not the gov’t stance on climate change, it’s the vast bulk of the global scientific community.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
Though obviously we’re all tired of seeing climatologists driving around in Porsches and buying private islands in the tropics.
#115 None
Do you really believe in chemtrails?
Operation Popeye was a military campaign of weaponized weather modification in Viet Nam. The idea was to extend the monsoon season and slow down the supply routes that would be used by the North Viet Cong. That was in the 60’s.
What do you think they have now??
#121 chapter 9
“Operation Popeye was a military campaign of weaponized weather modification in Viet Nam. The idea was to extend the monsoon season and slow down the supply routes that would be used by the North Viet Cong. That was in the 60′s.
What do you think they have now??”
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Well, let’s see how that kind of logic works:
The “McNamara Line” was an Operational Strategy employed during the Vietnam War to halt the infiltration of illegal immigrants from North Vietnam into South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. The idea was to employ various electronic audio and visual devices so as to alert American Forces so their patrols could seal off the border. That was in the 60′s.
What do you think they have now??
#100 SWL1976 on 07.29.14 at 1:04 pm
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Do you really believe in chemtrails?
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I live on the west coast and have watched them do it for years. At this point what is not to believe???
Its a bold faced lie right in front of our own eyes
They are doing it and have been doing it for at least 10 years, done deal game set match… Its a bummer, but we have to deal with it
[…] here in Canada, kids are buying condos before they get cars. The scenario has some analysts expressing increasing concern over what happens when there’s a […]
Re: #119 Shawn on 07.29.14 at 3:13 pm
The news is quite different if you read the Windsor newspapers. Oshawa is not a seller’s market. The property taxes are so high no one will buy there.
Re: #104 randman on 07.29.14 at 1:50 pm
The actual word is “realist” as in someone that can see reality for what it really is now and in the future.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/business/economy/us-economy-grew-4-in-second-quarter.html?_r=0
US ECONOMY GREW AT 4% IN THE 2ND QUARTER
Garth is this the time that a rate hike could come sooner and be more rapid than currently envisioned???
This is exactly what I have been saying: the GDP drop in Q1 was a weather phenom and the US economy has been steadily rebounding since. Today the Fed will announce the 6th drop in QE, on its way to zero by the end of October. Yes, rates will be rising in 2015, and bond yields sooner. Ready? — Garth
One free with every Condo 500 sq. or less.
https://sftimes.co/?id=2133&src=home_feed