Good debt

DARTH modified

In the first three months of this year, 59.6% of all the mortgages that CMHC insured went to buyers who borrowed at least 85% of the purchase price. Of those, the vast majority (45.2%) leveraged more than 90%.

Yes, this is down from the torrent of high-ratio, high-risk loans the feds backstopped during the same time last year (because the housing market is inexorably slowing), but it still gives you a great insight into what’s behind inflating prices. Yes, moist virgins.

In fact, a report this week from the mortgage brokers’ association confirmed that when it comes to goosing properties, it’s the kids who are the driving force. Last year a massive 55% of all real estate transactions were done by first-timer buyers – you know, the ones with desire but no money, using the Bank of Mom, taking cash-back (bribe) mortgages form the bank, and shifting all of the risk for their potential defaults onto taxpayers’ backs.

This, along with the current paucity of listings in many markets (“why would we sell, honey, when we can’t afford to buy?”) tells us something fundamental about the market. Experienced homeowners are growing increasingly cautious at the same time the kids are diving in.

It’s not hard to see that at any weekend open house in Toronto’s Lesleyville or East Van, where swarms of millennials and hipsters are looking at houses their parents would make garages out of. These are the ones – gassed up on stunning pre-approvals from the voracious banks – who think nothing of jumping into a bidding war and adding to the home loan because it’s all “good debt.” Moreover, lots of the kids figure they’ll never pay the mortgage off anyway, so who actually cares how big it is? The only important number is the monthly.

The brokers, by the way, asked the virgins about their epic borrowings. They found that 66% classify mortgages as good debt, despite the fact the loans are amortized and could end up costing $2 for every dollar they accepted.

As for risk? Pffft. When have houses ever gone down? Only fossils worry about that crap.

“They say they feel confident they can weather a downturn in the housing market and they consider mortgage debt to be good debt,” says the CAAMP report. “Their attitudes are the same whether they live in Toronto, Calgary or Vancouver where prices continue to rise, or in areas where home prices are stabilizing.”

But the kids have never seen a housing correction, and may have only a foggy notion of what it could mean. They don’t how much it sucks to be forking over $3,000 a month in mortgage payment, property tax and condo fees for an apartment they could rent for $1,650 – when it’s no longer rising in value. Maybe even declining.

Even the brokers’ economist, Will Dunning, has been sounding the alarm.

“While the national market may look healthy,” he says, “activity in the Greater Toronto Area (including Hamilton), the Greater Vancouver Regional District and the Calgary area is skewing the numbers high. In the rest of Canada sales activity has weakened and house prices are flat, and even falling in some communities. Housing has played a key role in driving economic growth and job creation in Canada. But looking ahead, decreased starts and slower price growth will throw off the balance between the housing market and the overall economy.”

Unknown to all experts, of course, is what all of these people with 90% and 95% leverage will do when real estate prices moderate, 3% mortgages disappear or the housing-heavy economy stumbles. Never before has so much debt rested in the hands of so many so young, so naïve.

Meanwhile, even though CMHC has taken steps to limit the effects of a potential plop, its private-sector competitors are ramping up their risk. The crown corp has been giving up market share to Genworth and Canada Guaranty, which haven’t been cutting back as much on lending to the self-employed, or for second homes.

For the record, as a taxpayer, you are currently on the hook for $555 billion in CMHC-insured mortgages. That’s a little less than the $618 billion we have in accumulated national debt. However, CMHC’s debt has doubled in the last five years, while it took Canada almost a century and a half to get to this state.

Have a nice weekend. And keep your daughter away from those bloody open houses.

193 comments ↓

#1 French Steve on 05.30.14 at 5:44 pm

Fiiiirrrrssst!!

Nobody beats bad boy!

Ohhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

#2 Happy Renting on 05.30.14 at 5:45 pm

I want that car so badly it hurts!!!!! :)

#3 Derek R on 05.30.14 at 5:45 pm

Debt used for investment — Good.
Debt used for consumption — Bad.

And it doesn’t matter whether that consumption is on housing, cars, or holidays. Don’t do it!

#4 marquis de sade on 05.30.14 at 5:56 pm

DELETED

#5 Andy on 05.30.14 at 6:03 pm

I’m an employment lawyer in Vancouver so I deal regularly with people who have just lost their job, and I am frequently amazed by the number of young people and low-ish income earners who are concerned about paying their mortgage after losing their jobs. In some cases I make more than double what they do and wouldn’t even bother considering entering this bloated whale of a market. I’m not sure why ownership is so incredibly valued among the 35 and under crowd, or why anyone in their mid-20’s would want to saddle themselves with the financial burden of an overpriced condo.

#6 Shawn on 05.30.14 at 6:03 pm

SHOCKING?

In the first three months of this year, 59.6% of all the mortgages that CMHC insured went to buyers who borrowed at least 85% of the purchase price. Of those, the vast majority (45.2%) leveraged more than 90%.

*****************************************
59.6% of the CMHC mortgages had at least 85% borrowed.

Shocking? Not when you consider that it’s ONLY those borrowing over 80% that need CMHC insurance in the first place.

I suppose that close to 100% of CMHC insured mortgages involved borrowing at least 80%. (’cause you don’t need it if you borrow 80% or less)

So the statistic you quote is true but also “truthy”.

Here’s another way of saying some of this:

Less that 45% opted for the minimum 5% down.

I too expected house prices to go down. To me, they have seemed too high for at least ten years, I predicted years ago and every year since that house prices would go down and interest rates would rise.

I was wrong.

And it continues. CMHC does not insure just high-ratio mortgages. The portfolio is extremely diverse and includes large numbers of conventional loans. — Garth

#7 SilverMeridian on 05.30.14 at 6:03 pm

SilverMeridian Greater Ottawa surReal Estate Update

Here is latest Ottawa RE stats that I extracted from the last week Open House CFRA Open House show:

http://proxy.autopod.ca/podcasts/chum/13/22463/Open.House.140524.mp3

Current (as of last weekend) inventory is sitting at 9788 active listings in Ottawa, with expectations that we may hit 11 000 listings this year! For comparison, last year active listings had PEAKED at 8800 sometime in the middle of the summer, don’t compare that number with this year’s May. Right now Ottawa is operating on 38% success rate, that means that 62 % homes are not even selling. After 21 weeks, year to date we have on average 703 listings per week, and there is only 268 sales per week. Every single year prior to this year, we seemed to have anywhere between 30 000 to 32 000 listings hit the market, and around 15 000 for demand. This year, we might hit 34 000 to 35 000, but the demand this year instead of 15 000 homes is going to be only 14 000 (estimated). Last year we’ve had 47 % success rate, and we going to be hovering somewhere around 40 % this year. In 2012 we’ve had 51 % success (home sales), 2011 – 53% success rate, and in 2010 there was 58 % success rate.

The difference between listing price and actual selling price split in two between residential and condominium markets; residential active price is on average 16 % or $ 61 000 higher then the average sold price. When it comes to condos the average is 18 % or $56 000 higher then average sold.

#8 Shawn on 05.30.14 at 6:11 pm

First Time Buyer AND Retiree??

Derek R at 3 says don’t borrow for a house.

I guess if you want a house in the burbs of a big City, it’s simple . Just rent and save up $500,000 and go buy one.

Meanwhile get a new wife ’cause the first one is not going to wait that long.

And when the time comes skip the house and move straight to the old folks home.

But hey, maybe if you are a 50 year old guy with $500k for a new house you can attract a 30 year old wife and start a family.

Yeah just wait till the geezers start picking off the young ladies like that, the younger guys are really going to get angry then.

I agree don’t borrow 95% on a 500k house, but surely some debt on a house is okay. It could pay instant dividends in the battle for a mate.

#9 SilverMeridian on 05.30.14 at 6:28 pm

SilverMeridian Greater Ottawa surReal Estate Update

Here is very interesting part the last week’s show that I just had to transcribe. The conversation is taking place between the host of the show Steve Gregory, REALTOR® Brian Eustace and Mortgage Agent Frank Napolitano.

“Brian: And one more thing that I wanted to mention that CMHC was saying that they figured it’s going to cool, it’s plateaued this year, and they figured in 2015 we going to come out of it. Now, I understand that every year we have a roadblock coming out on the way of these predictions; that in 2012 they said the same thing about 2013, 2013 came and we started to hear that government was going to release jobs, and they said that we didn’t come out of it because of the jobs thing, but it is going to happen next year in 2014. In 2014 they saying the same thing again, that with elections and everything it is going to get better in 2015. I didn’t believe it then, but I believe it now, I believe we coming out of it next year.
Steve: Coming out of….
Brian: I think we going to start seeing price increase, I think we going to get more into balance and we are heading towards really strong year, which means, that in the buyers market (like right now in Ottawa), if you buy now, you will be coming out a huge winner within 12 months with the price of your house going up.
Frank: This is how crazy it is, because there is another article, that I’ve read this week, ….. economist who thinks that price of homes still can come down another 20% in Canada!
Brian: But that’s in Canada, Frank. This is what I am telling to consumers, because you are going to read all over the map, yet if you really focus on what we were reading in the past six or seven years since “recession” started, the average home should have been below $300 000 now. If you’ve read everything that was said six, five or four years ago. And non of that happened. Prices went way higher than government anticipated.”

Am I the only one who’s having problems with this logic? RE prices in Canada are way higher then they should be right now, there were predictions coming out year after year (since crazy mad days of 2011 market) that next year is going to get better in terms of sales, those predictions have never been fulfilled, but if you buy now (when the prices at the peak) next year is going somehow different and everybody who bought this year will make a whack of money! And how exactly newly released stats support that claim? According to Statistics Canada, the gross domestic product grew at an annualized rate of 1.2 per cent in the first quarter of 2014. That falls short of analysts’ expectations of 1.8 per cent, and is a significant slowdown from the 2.7 per cent growth seen in the fourth quarter of 2013. It’s also the smallest increase in over a year.

So folks, “Talk to an Ottawa-area REALTOR® today for help with buying and/or selling a home, and you will have an ally from start to finish, and everything in between.” It sounds like there’re really know what they are doing!

#10 T5_income on 05.30.14 at 6:36 pm

$555b ?

Can someone inform me on the $600b limit. Is it firm or akin to the US “debt ceiling” ?

What the hell happens at 600b ?

#11 Me on 05.30.14 at 6:40 pm

Is it just me, or is everyone getting tired of hearing about 3% mortgages going away. I locked into a 5 year at 3.4% 2 years ago because “mortgage rates are going up”. Guess what, I can get a 5 year for a lot less still. Right now I am calling BS on the odds of rates going up any time soon. Should rates go up… yes. Will they… I doubt it.

#12 Geomancer on 05.30.14 at 6:43 pm

Hey Andy…you should have taken some sociology electives. It would all be easier to understand.

“I’m not sure why ownership is so incredibly valued among the 35 and under crowd, or why anyone in their mid-20′s would want to saddle themselves with the financial burden of an overpriced condo.”

Real Estate ownership isn’t personal..it is societal….akin to being absorbed into a cult. Young people especially are heavily influenced by peer pressure. Look at the two cities most mentioned ..Vanc .and TO . Young Canadians have substituted for culture….and the lack thereof as lifestyle through real estate ownership. There are no other outlets available…no art. music, dance, dream….style, sport or outlets of any kind other than the effectively advertised sirens song of joining a real estate clique…..they swarm to the cohort like flies to dung.

Young people want more than anything to be accepted…and a part of a greater movement……real estate has taken over from any intellectual quality that might have developed had it not been for the dearth of creativity in Canadian society generally.

#13 Kris on 05.30.14 at 6:45 pm

#5 Andy on 05.30.14 at 6:03 pm
I’m an employment lawyer in Vancouver so I deal regularly with people who have just lost their job, and I am frequently amazed by the number of young people and low-ish income earners who are concerned about paying their mortgage after losing their jobs. In some cases I make more than double what they do and wouldn’t even bother considering entering this bloated whale of a market. I’m not sure why ownership is so incredibly valued among the 35 and under crowd, or why anyone in their mid-20′s would want to saddle themselves with the financial burden of an overpriced condo.

BECAUSE :
Peer/immigrant pressure who alway ask if you own and is you say no……..you get that loser/poor man’s look on their face.

#14 AfterTheHouseSold on 05.30.14 at 6:48 pm

#151 Blacksheep on 05.30.14
#142 Shawn

Blacksheep calls out Shawn:
“So now I (Shawn) use my mad knowledge to run internet defense for the banking system”. See link.

Not a peep from Shawn. Shawn, who responds to absolutely every remark directed his way and then some. The silence is deafening! Maybe Blacksheep has nailed Shawns’ side line business.

#15 Dean Mason on 05.30.14 at 6:50 pm

Good debt is no debt. his is especially true for the consumer, small investor, small working man.

Wait until the income tax laws change and make investment loans interest not taxable deductible.

Borrow at 3.00% or 3.50% to try to make 5% to 6% will not work after interest paid on investment loans are no longer tax deductible.

The Ontario Liberals will surprise a lot of people when they do it.

This would impact real estate greatly too as investment properties would become less attractive losing this precious tax deduction worth thousands a year.

They will do this gradually like they did with maybe a $5,000 a year limit and phasing it out like they did with the labour sponsor fund tax credits over 5 to 6 years.

Don’t say it can’t happen. I have been hearing this since 2004 once McGunity Reds came in to power.

#16 Dean Mason on 05.30.14 at 6:52 pm

Correction to my above last post, sorry posted to soon.

Good debt is no debt. This is especially true for the consumer, small investor, small working man.

#17 Smoking Man on 05.30.14 at 7:03 pm

Thinking about rehab, maybe in Muskoka, just one more crazy night….

#18 Pope TGIF Snugglebombs the 666za (aka Nosty) on 05.30.14 at 7:05 pm

#148 Old Man on 05.30.14 at 3:40 pm — “. . . the Olive Man is not a free thinker, and will follow orders from above.” Here, and “. . . onto taxpayers’ backs.” (Garth)

Good article in the KDC today (here, plus this one) stating how the IMF, WBank etc. are going after pensions, mostly public but not private ones.

Avoiding RE and focus on being liquid and debt free. A roof over one’s head, whether rented or a fully paid-up home, is nice but not running out of money should be the goal of most people.
*
As went Libya and Ukraine, now it’s Hungary’s turn. However, “So now we will be told that Hungary hates us for our freedoms, that they are an evil dictatorship oppressing their people, they have nukes, they have gas, yadda yadda yadda leading to an invasion. The unipolar moment in international relations is over, and we are now entering a multiplex world.” wrh.com, plus Co-operation and Russia – Argentina.

SMan — Latest on MH370, which leads to one question — what is that identical plane doing in one of Israel’s hangars — having the ID codes switched? Boeing has already stated that a 767 can be remotely controlled, and the pilots do not have a say once someone hijacks it. New FF in Chicago on the horizon?

#19 Roger_Home_Inspector on 05.30.14 at 7:19 pm

I know this is anecdotal but here’s what I’m seeing right now.

At present, our business volume has slumped for the time of year. Granted, there is still a good number of deals being done, however we should be doing way more inspections than we are. (p.s.- inspection volumes in Ontario as a whole are down about 10% y/y. In the Maritimes, down by almost 20%. Yikes).

So why are inspection volumes down? It may be that people have figured I’m a pathetic blog dog. But more likely: There are no listings.

Nearly every transaction completed in my geographical area at this point is multiple offer. Not many current homeowners want to list their home because they know they can’t afford to move into anything else so they stand pat. (Hmm. What do current homeowners know or see coming that the wet ones don’t??). My analysis is that a good volume of the buyers that are chasing the few homes that are on the market are young-ish or first time buyers.

Realtors drool over this scenario because out come the “clean offers”. Remember, real estate is a sport and no one wants to be a “loser”. First thing to be cut out of these naive first time buyers deals to make an offer “more competitive” is the inspection clause because it’s the big unknown. Many sellers will take a lesser dollar value bid over one that contains an inspection clause. When the horny really get humping, I get turfed right at the gate.

So with tight supply caused by folks not wanting to sell and lots of hipsters looking to buy any steaming pile of crap out there so they can “get into the market”, inspection volumes go down as a percentage of completed transactions, because buyers wish to be “competitive”.

However, this is also a clear indication to me that:
1) The market is way out of balance and
2) People are not doing their due diligence and emotion has run roughshod over common sense and sound business practice.

Once good business practice is out of the picture and emotion has taken over, people start getting screwed. Hard.

#20 Seeing it from both sides on 05.30.14 at 7:19 pm

And the ‘immigrants’ just keep coming . Vancouver is Silicon Valley north. How can real estate prices correct? These are not minimum wage jobs. Sure, they could rent, but someone has to own the rental properties.

“Sony Pictures Imageworks to move head office to Vancouver

Sony visual effects arm quits California to employ up to 700 in downtown Pacific Centre space

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Sony+Pictures+Imageworks+move+head+office+Vancouver/9890292/story.html#ixzz33FAIrWXt

#21 So.... on 05.30.14 at 7:20 pm

“….but it still gives you a great insight into what’s behind inflating prices. Yes, moist virgins.”

Yes. I agree.

These are the 1.5 million immigrants, 1 Million Canadian born virgins, 350,000 TFW’s and their families, and 2-400,000 rich international Students relying on the Bank of Dad.

#22 So.... on 05.30.14 at 7:21 pm

That came in the last 5-6 years…

#23 Retired Boomer - WI on 05.30.14 at 7:32 pm

If things get “wobbly” in the repayment area Genworth can go bankrupt. So, too can Canadian Taxpayers, which apparently they WANT as they have allowed their government to enslave them via CHMC. You can always TAX the ….(fill in the blank here)

Hell, it works great, just look south. We now take to more of the poor’s hinders than the rich, it pays to buy your politicians, pick well.

#24 sheane wallace on 05.30.14 at 7:37 pm

And it continues. CMHC does not insure just high-ratio mortgages. The portfolio is extremely diverse and includes large numbers of conventional loans. — Garth
……………………….
Correct, I heard that banks are insuring some of their mortgages through CHMC when down-payment is above 20 %…

When the thing hits the fan a decline of 50-60% is guaranteed, just wait for the 6-8, maybe 10-15 % interest rates and I am not kidding here at all.
Once currencies than as the big inflation is coming the only way to save the economy would be a huge hike in interest rates. It is coming.

#25 sheane wallace on 05.30.14 at 7:38 pm

once currencies tank damn it

#26 LH on 05.30.14 at 7:42 pm

A few million of CMHC’s limit is likely earmarked for my various mortgages. Low ratio, portfolio deals most likely.
GOOD DEBT because it helped me lever up and make million$ on C01 and C02 SFH. I can sense the economic tides changing however, so I am shoveling money back to neutralize these loans as fast as possible. With luck, the whole pile should be extinguished by the time I reach 35.

LH

#27 Dean Mason on 05.30.14 at 7:46 pm

Most Canadians especially the young, inexperienced financially illiterate, first time home buyers don’t understand that an every extra $100,000 mortgage they borrow, it will cost between 2.85 to 3.5 times that in lost financial investments over a 25 year amortization period.

Yes, an extra $100,000 mortgage balance would cost between $285,000 to $350,00 in 25 years once the house is paid for.

This includes all the current and rising at an average 4.00% annual rate for property taxes, utilities, home insurance, repairs and maintenance, H.S.T plus all the CMHC premiums, mortgage payments which includes all the mortgage interest at 3.00% annually.

Also, all the land transfer taxes, lawyer fees, real estate commission to sell it or future selling costs, expenses, fees.

This calculation also includes all the lost compound interest or growth in 25 years at 4.00% to 6.00% on all the current and rising property taxes, utilities, home insurance, repairs and maintenance, H.S.T. etc.

TFSA’s are best used and a large family using all their $5,500 annual TFSA contributions could more likely achieve this.

If RRSP’s are needed or used due to the TFSA $5,500 annual contribution limitation for reinvesting remaining money then this would increase the amount between another $45,000 to $55,000 per $100,000 mortgage balance.

This would increase the financial investments lost to between $330,000 to $405,000 per $100,000 mortgage balance or 3.30 to 4.05 times.

In 25 years, the total annual lost interest or income between earning 4.00% to 6.00% would be between $13,200 to $24,300 per $100,000 mortgage balance.

Imagine 3 times the mortgage balance of $300,000. It is as much as $990,000 to $1,215,000 lost in financial investments and as much as $39,600 to $72,900 in lost annual interest or income.

#28 Nemesis on 05.30.14 at 7:52 pm

#GoodDebt? #LarryTheLiquidator. #OtherPeople’sMoney+MoistVirgins=Trouble. #MeetCutePreludeToRehab.

http://youtu.be/QMNOgmIDle8

#29 james on 05.30.14 at 7:55 pm

What a gift.

That so many people think that mortgage debt is ‘good debt’, plain and simple. No thought to the context in which the mortgage is originated, such as market conditions, job prospects, rent/income, rent/carrying-costs, mobility, interest rates, opportunity costs, etc.

Just ‘mortgage debt is good debt’.

Brilliant. The industry either has done a lot of great PR work, or they have a leprechaun up their butts. You couldn’t ask for a more well conditioned group of customers.

#30 Dean Mason on 05.30.14 at 7:57 pm

On my last post above, this is if mortgage rates stay at 3.00% for the next 25 years.

You can imagine even a 1.00% to 1.50% increase will add thousands per $100,000 in extra mortgage interest over 25 years.

It is $22,800 in total more mortgage interest over 25 years per $100,000 but this is not the full cost as with compound interest or growth invested over 25 years, the total lost financial investments is between $38,800 to $51,684 per $100,000 mortgage balance.

A $300,000 mortgage balance will cost as much as $114,900 to $155,052 in lost financial investments over 25 years and as much as $4,596 to $9,303 in annual lost interest or income.

The same 4.00% to 6.00% annual interest or growth per year and 4.00% to 6.00% annual interest or income are used in this example.

#31 Daisy Mae on 05.30.14 at 7:58 pm

“As for risk? Pffft. When have houses ever not gone down?”

****************

Don’t you mean ‘up’?

#32 Derek R on 05.30.14 at 7:58 pm

#8 Shawn on 05.30.14 at 6:11 pm wrote:
Derek R at 3 says don’t borrow for a house.

I guess if you want a house in the burbs of a big City, it’s simple . Just rent and save up $500,000 and go buy one.

Meanwhile get a new wife ’cause the first one is not going to wait that long.

Didn’t stop me finding an excellent wife. If anyone loses a wife because of renting instead of buying, she probably wasn’t worth keeping anyway…

#33 On the hook on 05.30.14 at 8:07 pm

As a taxpayer, we are also on the hook for 90% of the private insurer’s debt as well.

#34 WhiteKat on 05.30.14 at 8:07 pm

@SilverMeridian,

Thanks for your Ottawa housing area comments. Having sold my house 2 1/2 years ago in Brantford to move to Ottawa, I am still sitting out of the market here. I DO NOT want to buy in another bubble (been there, done that in Hamilton in 1989), and plan to keep waiting and watching. Unfortunately, FATCA might force me to get back into real estate at some point over the next couple years. I have the worst luck…looking forward to more of your comments.

#35 Daisy Mae on 05.30.14 at 8:09 pm

“Never before has so much debt rested in the hands of so many so young, so naive.”

*********************

They know it all…until they realize they don’t.

#36 Finally on 05.30.14 at 8:11 pm

Looking at a house on main and 20th on Saturday in YVR, 25×120 lot, 100+ years old, no updates and comes with asbestos, knob and tube & a free oil tank in the back yard. Only asking 800K though. Probably be a bidding war, but always good to look at other crazy people out there.

#37 sheane wallace on 05.30.14 at 9:03 pm

DELETED

#38 Nemesis on 05.30.14 at 9:04 pm

#D.A.V.E. #HollyWoodNorth’sGulagArchipelago.

@SeeingItFromBothSides/#20

…you’d move your shop to YVR, too – if you knew that the local CraftGuilds were comparatively weak or non-existent [vs. Cali], the DollarArbritage was favourable, you could pick and choose from hundreds of hungry, talented UnpaidInterns, local wages were suppressed and the ProvincialSpivs were going to subsidize your actual PayRoll to the tune of 60%…

JustSayin’.

http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/cit_011.pdf

#39 CPG on 05.30.14 at 9:06 pm

The housing market in London, England is really starting to heat up.

London house prices in April see record 4.2% rise

#40 Gord In Vancouver on 05.30.14 at 9:11 pm

Anomaly or beginning of something big in Vancouver?

Sony Pictures Imageworks headquarters moving to Vancouver

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/05/sony-pictures-imageworks-headquarters-move-vancouver/

#41 Joe2.0 on 05.30.14 at 9:17 pm

I’m waiting for that day in the future when someone asks Garth “why didn’t you warn us”

Historically when numbers have been this out of wack it ends poorly.

Always, and to make it better down the road the good old ARM to choke you out.

#42 the jaguar on 05.30.14 at 9:23 pm

#5 Andy –

#13 Kris makes a good point about immigrant family/peer pressure. It also seems to be the way people in this age group validate themselves. There seems to be a lot less individualism and more “group” mentality. Maybe they all watch the reality tv shows that glorify granite and hardwood and decide obtaining some of it is going make them more acceptable to their peers and family. It used to be that you could still be a hipster if you rented a cool little apartment that was decorated in a way that reflected your personal style, but the advertising industry has an incredible power to seduce young minds (some old ones, too).
Health, mobility, liquidity, friendship, love and many other more important things to aspire to just don’t make any money for advertising firms or companies selling stuff. But sooner or later one figures out these are the things that really matter. And you can still have all of them with a little luxury thrown in.

#43 Somble on 05.30.14 at 9:23 pm

There won’t be significant correction because rate won’t be increasing overnight . There will be a 2% increase over 2 year period based on the fact that most first time homebuyers choose a 5 year fixed rate mortgage amortized over 25 years. What do you think of this Garth.

That you made it up. — Garth

#44 2or3orsometimes7 on 05.30.14 at 9:27 pm

Thanks SilverMeridian!

#45 Notta Sheeple on 05.30.14 at 9:38 pm

“…….For the record, as a taxpayer, you are currently on the hook for $555 billion in CMHC-insured mortgages. That’s a little less than the $618 billion we have in accumulated national debt………”
=========================

Holy sinkhole, Batman! Now there’s a vital tidbit of information you won’t hear from the mouth of our Prime Minister of Rubber Stamped TFW’s.

Ironic, isn’t it? A ‘conservative’ party completely abandoning its ‘supply and demand’ and so-called ‘free market’ principles? The Canadian Bankster Association has some kind of pull. Who knew?

#46 Humper on 05.30.14 at 9:39 pm

Sony move is tax-incentive based plus there are a lot of unemployed and cheap animators in Canada. Check industry studio closures over the last half decade.

#47 takla on 05.30.14 at 9:44 pm

started a new job today…i have a new appreciation for Punjabi music.Seems many/most of the active contractors in many of the suburban areas outside of greater Van are of east indian decent….More recent immigrants in many cases that aren’t aware of our Boom-Bust cycles and are breaking ground seemingly unaware of the dangers of building spec housing in this declineing realestate climate.Super happy buiding lot prices are comeing down..
No school teaches that,except the school of Hard Knocks.
brings back memories of the recession of ’83,Interest rates spiked{20%} and homeowners got squeezed out/foreclosed on ,ruining many.
will history repeat itself???
The math is downright scary when you consider the poor homeowner that gets caught in a 350,000.00 mortgage reset from 3% to 6-7%….there will be extreme hardship for many including BANKRUPTCY……

#48 Shawn on 05.30.14 at 9:44 pm

I Was Missed?

# 14 said:

Not a peep from Shawn. Shawn, who responds to absolutely every remark directed his way and then some. The silence is deafening! Maybe Blacksheep has nailed Shawns’ side line business.

****************************************
Glad to see I was missed. I got a chuckle out of Blacksheep’s post. I think the particular link he gave was a joke.

Admit it, all the regulars like it when someone responds to our posts. That why it’s fun to post here.

#49 Shawn on 05.30.14 at 9:46 pm

P.S. Scoring a response from Garth is worth extra points.

#50 eastvan on 05.30.14 at 9:49 pm

Final domestic demand slid by 0.1 per cent in quarter-over-quarter comparisons, business capital formation fell 0.9, exports fell 0.6 and exports of goods fell 0.8, business construction in residential structures dropped 1.6 and new home construction decreased 1.5, while real estate activity plunged 6.4 per cent.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Canadian+Press+NewsAlert+Economy+advances+cent+first+quarter/9891967/story.html#ixzz33FlkF7RW

#51 Nemesis on 05.30.14 at 9:55 pm

#BackInTheDay. #Nemesis’GasTownHipsterGarret. #WasJustLikePeterParker’s. #3WasBetter.

http://youtu.be/1bzqHbTD64w

[ProductionNotesForRehabBoundSmokingMen: Where does fiction come from?]

#52 Maggie on 05.30.14 at 10:01 pm

Garth, is it still bad to buy a house if we have 50% down? For example buying an 800k house with 400k down? This would align with your 90 minus your age rule. Thanks!

#53 Roxy on 05.30.14 at 10:11 pm

I’m 30 and I have a good job. I took the Globe and Mail “Gen Y Can I Afford to Move Out?” thing and it told me NO, NEVER

#54 gladiator on 05.30.14 at 10:18 pm

Good debt is debt gone into investments/new ventures.
I wouldn’t be very wrong claiming that over 90% of our fellow Canadians – owners or renters – consider housing as a good investment. Long-term trends are there to prove it. Thus, we can see why mortgage debt is considered as “good” debt in Canada. And this debt will keep rising as long as the vast majority of populace will consider housing a good investment.
It used to be this way in Ireland, Spain, Japan, the US and other countries, but it is no longer so. It is Canada’s turn to change its view, and my guess is it will be nasty – just like in the countries listed above.
We are late to the “game”, but we WILL be there.

#55 Bottoms_Up on 05.30.14 at 10:19 pm

It’s a good time to be a buyer right now in Ottawa. Sales are consistently coming in around 1100-1500. But new listings are double that.

Thus, every month that goes by, over 1000 extra properties are added to existing inventory.

Something’s gotta give at some point.

#56 Bottoms_Up on 05.30.14 at 10:28 pm

#12 Geomancer on 05.30.14 at 6:43 pm
——————————————–
So by inferring from what you’re not saying, no one buys a house for the reason of living in it as a home? That purchases are driven by some type of societal brain washing?

We are human, we need shelter to raise our families. What do you suggest we do?

Somehow ownership is

#57 Smoking Man on 05.30.14 at 10:37 pm

Snowden… I figured it out…

Brilliant move by the machine.

50 million pissed off people on food stamps, the white picked fence just a thing in photos.

A shit load of weapons and amo in the hands of the brave and the poor.

First let’s make a law, if we think you’re a terrorist, we can hall your ass away, lock you away forever, and if we feel like it we can shot a missile up your butt from a drone..

Then we make a claim via a scripted play.. The young patriot.
He says
We know everything you type, say, and think..

He blew the litonus test.. 911 building 7, just like Assange..

It’s a show.

This big ass spy net, could not get the Boston bombers, even with a heads up from Russia.

The brilliance of it all.

The entire population self censors out of fear of being watched..

God damn, if stop drinking I might not be able to figure this shut out.

JD and Johnny Cash working good.

#58 Jon on 05.30.14 at 10:46 pm

Maggie it depends on what other assests you have. How much you earn etc. real estate should be part of your portfolio but dont risk enough to wipe out other investments. I would argue never putting more than the minimum to avoid insurance then make sure you can handle an interest rate fluctuation, job loss etc. invest your other principle in a diversified portfolio and live your life. Statistics may imply waiting, but if you can afford it are planning to live there awhile then go ahead but dont wager everything on a house that would be as smart as wagering everything on gold.

#59 devore on 05.30.14 at 11:06 pm

#40 Gord In Vancouver

About time some decent jobs showed up in Vancouver. This will begin to offset the recent movie and game development studio closures. People here will work for peanuts, compared to Silicon Valley or San Fran.

#60 Smoking Man on 05.30.14 at 11:11 pm

DELETED

#61 april on 05.30.14 at 11:14 pm

#52 Maggie. As long as you don’t mind paying into a depreciating asset I suppose. What’s your hurry when the peak in RE is over unless your being fooled by the RE/Media cartel.

#62 Andrew Woburn on 05.30.14 at 11:16 pm

#36 Finally on 05.30.14 at 8:11 pm
Looking at a house on main and 20th on Saturday in YVR, 25×120 lot, 100+ years old, no updates and comes with asbestos, knob and tube & a free oil tank in the back yard. Only asking 800K though. Probably be a bidding war, but always good to look at other crazy people out there.
==============================

Might not get a mortgage with an oil tank in the back yard. One poor guy in Vancouver got stuck with an old tank which had leaked in all directions. As I remember, by the time he had excavated and treated all the contaminated soil, he was out of pocket about $130K.

Hey, heritage doesn’t come cheap!

#63 Angus on 05.30.14 at 11:28 pm

I think this CNN report on the US economy sums it up real nicely …..so sad .
http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/29/investing/gdp-economy/
but Italy to include cocaine and prostitution in there GDP takes the cake for desperation to show phoney numbers ,I wonder if I could invest in some kind of cocaine TFSA but legally
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-22/cocaine-sales-to-boost-italian-gdp-in-boon-for-budget.html

#64 **NAKED APE** on 05.30.14 at 11:33 pm

Garth, I just gotta make some comments regarding this blog that are long overdue in my mind…

This blog is by far the best I’ve seen in promoting a cause for personal financial well-being by far. Been following you for a couple of years now. Seen both sides of the spectrum – a couple bailing on RE after some sober, second thought in thinking about a good retirement and some youngsters climbing into serious debt with all fingers, eyeballs and a$$holes crossed that one of them doesn’t become incapacitated in any way.

Not sure how you manage to crank these thoughts out six days a week, but I am totally impressed at how you can come up with different subject matter every day and fully engage the Blog Dogs in a reasonably coherent dialogue. Your passion is absolutely undeniable. You have garnered a great deal of respect from me for your tenacity and conviction.

THANK YOU! My hat is off to you Sir and NO, I don’t want to take a spin on your bike, much less borrow it!

#65 Somble on 05.30.14 at 11:50 pm

Garth, I didn’t market it up. This is according to BMO economist Robert Kavcic.

#66 Smoking Man on 05.30.14 at 11:50 pm

DELETED

#67 Mark on 05.30.14 at 11:51 pm

Actually the CMHC re-insures (on a 90% basis) the “private” sector re-insurers. So the total potential liability to the taxpayer is on the order of $900B.

On that note, have you ever heard of a government loan guarantee that wasn’t, at some point in the economic cycle, at least partially exercised? It is horrifically bad economic policy for the government to be according a credit preference to any sector of the economy, nevermind one that is entirely related to consumption rather than investment.

#68 Spectacle on 05.31.14 at 12:02 am

Thanks Garth, & trust your leg is working out fine.

#18 Pope TGIF Snugglebombs the 666za (aka Nosty) on 05.30.14 at 7:05 pm

I don’t always understand your cryptic notes….but appreciate your comments. (It’s me not you.) Just saying .

Garth. ” That you made it up. — Garth “. Wow, that made me laugh out loud! Must be getting the pulse of the blog ….

#32 Derek R on 05.30.14 at 7:58 pm
#8 Shawn on 05.30.14 at 6:11 pm wrote:
Derek R at 3 says don’t borrow for a house.

Meanwhile get a new wife ’cause the first one is not going to wait that long.

Didn’t stop me………… If anyone loses a wife because of renting instead of buying, she probably wasn’t worth keeping anyway…

Really have to agree with this analogy. I also had the greatest fortune with my fiancé several years ago, having met her in a time of serious adversity on my part. This blog, ” my blog” as she calls it, is now tolerated at home, as I read the comments entirely. Best part. She sees it as a benefit for both of us now, though it’s taken a while. ( it’s that big house ownership thing). And as mentioned previously in tonight’s blog, She is 17 years younger than me. ( no…I’m not at all 37).

Regards all.

#69 leaky Lou on 05.31.14 at 12:13 am

@ 36 and anyone thinking about snooping at open houses, Don’t, stop it, damn you people if your not planning to actually buy a house, stop creating false interest, it adds fuel to bidding war’s.

#70 Smoking Man on 05.31.14 at 12:17 am

Normal humans are weird.

Is there a religion of the nuts that I can join?

If you think it’s cool to strap dynamite to Childers backs and steam out Ala akbar.. Not the one I’m looking for..

I want to join a a cult that observes ants.. And debates the reason why one went left, the other right.

#71 Smoking Man on 05.31.14 at 12:19 am

DELETED

#72 Aggregator on 05.31.14 at 12:22 am

This is what happens when foreign investors invade Vancouver

A recent report by Sotheby’s International Realty Canada examined more than twelve hundred luxury-home sales in Vancouver in the first half of 2013 and found that foreign buyers accounted for nearly half of sales, the New Yorker reported.

How much credible information does one need when the PBOC itself has already admitted $120 billion was smuggled out of China and Canada's top luxury RE agency survey shows about half of all purchases were foreign buyers in 2013.

Come on say it Garth. HAM didn't do it. You did this!

#73 VanFX on 05.31.14 at 1:51 am

#46 Humper

I work in the Vancouver Visual Effects industry.
Tax incentives certainly have a lot to do with the strength of the industry in the Lower Mainland, but so does the large talent pool those tax incentives have created over the last few years. Both of these things attract companies to the area, and there is often competition to hire quality staff. Sure, there are unemployed VFX artists, but they tend not to be the talented ones. Sony certainly won’t be moving here in the hope of recruiting artists desperate for a job: they’ll be after the cream of the crop to supplement the team they’ll be relocating from California. Something people don’t realise about VFX is that you can’t just hire anyone and hope to do well: it’s an extremely competitive business doing very difficult work at low margins and you need the best people you can lay your hands on to stay afloat.

#74 eddy on 05.31.14 at 3:39 am

‘bad debt’ is used for consumption.
Good debt is used to make money.

I think Blacksheep is right about Shawn. My favorite Shawnism was ‘fractional reserve alarmists’- He could write speeches for Harper

#75 Freedom First on 05.31.14 at 3:54 am

#19 Roger_Home_Inspector

Thank you for your input from your experience. And it is nothing but the truth. I also commend you on the clear concise tactful and gentle way with which you delivered this much needed message to the herd speeding towards the nearing cliff. Now that is really going to hurt.

I wanted to add something myself that popped into my head as I was reading Garth’s inspiring message of truth delivered with his now operating bionic appendage. To all the younger house horny who have controlled your house lust and restrained yourself from the financially suicidal act of massive leveraging into 1 asset, a house, and instead followed Garth’s advice, you will reap the rewards of your sane and prudent patience. There is a reason the wealthy are in the minority, and always will be.

#76 Buy? Curious? on 05.31.14 at 4:22 am

You blog dogs crack me up. One the one hand, you say how wrong it is for people to jump into such a frothy market, then on the other hand, you say that when the market dips, you’ll scoop up a place for 70 cents on the dollar. Garth, a few weeks back, complained how young people avoided risk but now says that purchasing a house is one of the riskiest financial things hipsters can do. So which one is it?

This is the same old problem every generation makes, blaming the youth. It’s these hidsight, Monday Morning Armchair quarterbacks, who’ve “seen it all before”, are soooooo experienced in the way the world works that it’s easy for them to piss on everyone else’s decision with such moral authority.

Just because you’ve failed in life and regret your decisions, don’t take it out on them, pray for a crash hoping you’ll then be able to buy a dream home. Just work a little smarter or lighten up and lower your expectations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLdU7uts4ws

#77 Woke To The Sounds Of Horking on 05.31.14 at 5:52 am

Often I hear people say: “But it’s different in Canada.” And then I hear others sarcastically reply that Canada’s headed down the same financial/housing road as Spain, Ireland, Japan, the US, etc.

I would argue that Canada really IS different.

Look at its population numbers and densities. Look at its level of immigration. Look at its large, empty pieces of land that are practically begging for fresh colonizers. Canada is unique in the world in this regard when all factors are considered.

Look at the world-class cities of Vancouver and Toronto and Montreal. Real estate values in those three cities (sorry Calgary, you’re not even close to being world class) will NEVER EVER EVER go down — and if you think they will then you’re ignoring immigration trends and hefty bags of foreign capital flooding into those cities.

There’s no end in sight to the “cargo ships” of immigrants who want to make Canada their home. And they’re bringing mega fortunes with them. Canada’s population is growing by more than 1%/yr. By 2020 its population will be approaching 40 million.

Immigration will ultimately change the face of Canada and keep its economy/housing market prospering for at least the lifetime of Gen X (i.e., the next 30-45 years).

If you’re waiting for a crash in Canada, don’t bet on it.

#78 drydock on 05.31.14 at 6:12 am

#57 Shirley from yesterday.

Spurious rantings of a mental case.

#79 BillyBob on 05.31.14 at 7:15 am

@ Shawn # 8,

hahah I had to laugh at your post. I’m 44, my g/f is 30. I could easily pay for that $500,000 house with no mortgage. (Well, saving it wasn’t easy, it took years of working in the Middle East, where I still am.) But the irony is I wouldn’t touch the Canadian housing market with a ten-foot pole. I like not paying income tax and having no mortgage or rent (company provided).

Virtually everyone in the world knows Canadian housing is a joke – except for Canadians in Canada. I guess it’s hard to see or acknowledge a bubble when you’re living in one.

Point is, the scenario you describe sarcastically as impossible, is pretty much my reality! But one would have to actually take a risk and consider moving where the money is for a time.

If you need a house to attract a mate, well…wow. Actually I think people who need a mate are a bit needy, but that’s another topic.

#80 angela on 05.31.14 at 8:02 am

Financial advisors are like realestate agents “it’s always a good time to buy “and they never really got anything to loose they make money on the way up and on the way down

Advisors who lose money for clients don’t stay advisors for long. — Garth

#81 GTA Engineer on 05.31.14 at 8:30 am

How is 45.2% a ‘vast majority’? Majority means 50%, and ‘vast majority’ implies significantly higher..

45.2% is a vast majority of 69%. It’s actually 65%. Get a calc. — Garth

#82 gladiator on 05.31.14 at 8:58 am

@76 Buy? Curious?

Yes, it is wrong to buy a house now and it will be a (relative) bargain when it sells for 70 cents on the dollar. Buying then instead of now is the “work a little smarter” that you mentioned, and we do not have to lower our expectations, because they are already low – we are waiting for lower prices, that’s all.
Regarding the hate you see from many here: it is not directed towards those who made a calculated move and bought a house as a place to live and maybe raise a family; it is directed towards speculators and towards parents pushing their offspring into buying a house NOW. Their actions pushed the market higher and turned it from a commodity into an investment. When the market turns (as it always does), all home owners will be hurt, but those who got in the game with little skin will be hurt the most. I will not cry for ruined speculators, for parents whose “help-for-downpayment” evaporated, for foreign investors, etc. They deserve that. I will feel bad for the poor kids who will have to either go through bankruptcy at an early age (what a way to start an adult life!) or will have to carry negative net worth for a long time (as history proves for Canada and as current times prove it for the rest of the world). But, regardless of how I will feel, when I decide the moment is right, I will be house hunting, of course. The good part is, I will avoid paying 43% more than I should (when buying for 70 cents on the dollar, I mean).
Over.

#83 gladiator on 05.31.14 at 9:04 am

And, I think 30 cents on the dollar is still too much. At these levels, 50 is more likely. Never underestimate the power of fear.
Bwaaaahahahahaha.

#84 test on 05.31.14 at 9:38 am

#77 Woke To The Sounds Of Horking on 05.31.14 at 5:52 am
Often I hear people say: “But it’s different in Canada.” And then I hear others sarcastically reply that Canada’s headed down the same financial/housing road as Spain, Ireland, Japan, the US, etc.

I would argue that Canada really IS different.

Look at its population numbers and densities. Look at its level of immigration. Look at its large, empty pieces of land that are practically begging for fresh colonizers. Canada is unique in the world in this regard when all factors are considered.

Look at the world-class cities of Vancouver and Toronto and Montreal. Real estate values in those three cities (sorry Calgary, you’re not even close to being world class) will NEVER EVER EVER go down — and if you think they will then you’re ignoring immigration trends and hefty bags of foreign capital flooding into those cities.

There’s no end in sight to the “cargo ships” of immigrants who want to make Canada their home. And they’re bringing mega fortunes with them. Canada’s population is growing by more than 1%/yr. By 2020 its population will be approaching 40 million.

Immigration will ultimately change the face of Canada and keep its economy/housing market prospering for at least the lifetime of Gen X (i.e., the next 30-45 years).

If you’re waiting for a crash in Canada, don’t bet on it.

There is only that much stupidity that can fit in one post. Congrats, you have stretched the limits of that.

#85 TheCatFoodLady on 05.31.14 at 9:39 am

All late winter & spring, poor numbers for showings & offers have been blamed on poor weather. On this stunning Saturday morning, I just checked the forecast for Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal & The Big Smoke – aka – Toronto. Sunny & mild – no oppressive heat & humidity. In short – a perfect weekend for Open Houses. I spent most of yesterday on a 20 minute bike ride with plenty of dawdling; in areas I don’t often pass. A fair number of listings – new & stale have Open Houses listed for this weekend. If weather has been the main reason for lack of interest, that won’t be a factor. Added to that, families looking to buy, move & get settled before a new school year begins must be starting to feel a slight sense of urgency. If there’s pent up demand, in my city anyway; Open Houses should be bursting at the seams today & tomorrow.

#86 OffshoreObserver on 05.31.14 at 9:51 am

A prescient, generic article by “The Economist.”

I apologise if it has been quoted earlier.

http://www.economist.com/node/21563725?fb_ref=activity

#87 test on 05.31.14 at 9:52 am

#9 SilverMeridian on 05.30.14 at 6:28 pm
SilverMeridian Greater Ottawa surReal Estate Update

Here is very interesting part the last week’s show that I just had to transcribe. The conversation is taking place between the host of the show Steve Gregory, REALTOR® Brian Eustace and Mortgage Agent Frank Napolitano.

“Brian: And one more thing that I wanted to mention that CMHC was saying that they figured it’s going to cool, it’s plateaued this year, and they figured in 2015 we going to come out of it. Now, I understand that every year we have a roadblock coming out on the way of these predictions; that in 2012 they said the same thing about 2013, 2013 came and we started to hear that government was going to release jobs, and they said that we didn’t come out of it because of the jobs thing, but it is going to happen next year in 2014. In 2014 they saying the same thing again, that with elections and everything it is going to get better in 2015. I didn’t believe it then, but I believe it now, I believe we coming out of it next year.
Steve: Coming out of….
Brian: I think we going to start seeing price increase, I think we going to get more into balance and we are heading towards really strong year, which means, that in the buyers market (like right now in Ottawa), if you buy now, you will be coming out a huge winner within 12 months with the price of your house going up.
Frank: This is how crazy it is, because there is another article, that I’ve read this week, ….. economist who thinks that price of homes still can come down another 20% in Canada!
Brian: But that’s in Canada, Frank. This is what I am telling to consumers, because you are going to read all over the map, yet if you really focus on what we were reading in the past six or seven years since “recession” started, the average home should have been below $300 000 now. If you’ve read everything that was said six, five or four years ago. And non of that happened. Prices went way higher than government anticipated.”

Am I the only one who’s having problems with this logic? RE prices in Canada are way higher then they should be right now, there were predictions coming out year after year (since crazy mad days of 2011 market) that next year is going to get better in terms of sales, those predictions have never been fulfilled, but if you buy now (when the prices at the peak) next year is going somehow different and everybody who bought this year will make a whack of money! And how exactly newly released stats support that claim? According to Statistics Canada, the gross domestic product grew at an annualized rate of 1.2 per cent in the first quarter of 2014. That falls short of analysts’ expectations of 1.8 per cent, and is a significant slowdown from the 2.7 per cent growth seen in the fourth quarter of 2013. It’s also the smallest increase in over a year.

So folks, “Talk to an Ottawa-area REALTOR® today for help with buying and/or selling a home, and you will have an ally from start to finish, and everything in between.” It sounds like there’re really know what they are doing!

Too bad that they are not doing much because the inventory is going …. up up up up !

#88 Grantmi on 05.31.14 at 9:55 am

Peace portal golf course /south surrey home update

2 years on the market
Gone from 1.7m
Now 1.3m
Realturd/builder /flipper

http://m.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=14339258

Priceless!!!

#89 A simple question.. on 05.31.14 at 10:01 am

If people lose their houses due to interest rates rising, job lose or whatever, will there be a greater demand for rentals? Will rent prices go up or will they decrease when TSHF?

#90 Bottoms_Up on 05.31.14 at 10:13 am

#79 BillyBob on 05.31.14 at 7:15 am
—————————————–
Given that your company pays your rent, it’s pretty convenient to say you wouldn’t touch housing with a ten foot pole.

But what if you had to pay your own rent? What if you knew you’d be renting for the next 25 yrs? That might change your thoughts.

#91 Herb on 05.31.14 at 10:14 am

I apologize for inserting politics into a finance/RE site once again, but I can’t resist linking to the most cogent comment one of my favourite columnists has produced so far –

Why, eight years later, does the federal government look pretty much the same as it did when the Conservatives took power?

Why? Because they are not interested in changing government, but in occupying it. The Conservatives are the “Ottawa elites” they decry, only they hope to dupe their supporters, for whose intelligence they evidently have abiding contempt, by keeping an army of convenient whipping boys on hand. And why not? It’s worked so far.

What else is there to say about this government and the people who vote for it?

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/Coyne+real+conservative+government+would+reform/9894022/story.html

#92 Doug in London on 05.31.14 at 10:28 am

@Woke To The Sounds Of Horking, post #77:
I don’t know if a crash, slow correction, or no correction at all is coming, but when I read posts like yours I get sucked into the time tunnel and shot back into a nostalgia trip of 1988-89, as I have described here before. Why? Because that’s exactly what I heard in those days. Say, how’s the cleanup of the Exxon Valdez oil spill coming along?

Good debt? The only good debt to be had in recent times is if you ran up margin debt buying stocks, equity ETFs, preferred share ETFs, or REITS when they were on sale, and selling off some now (when prices have gone up) to reduce or pay down entirely that margin debt.

#93 Veej on 05.31.14 at 10:31 am

HAM is over exaggerated, a tiny portion of the market and a tool for RE pushers to create a frenzy EH?? Claiming otherwise is racist??

Bearded One – you are out to lunch on that one!

http://www.housingwire.com/blogs/1-rewired/post/30134-this-is-what-happens-when-foreign-investors-invade-vancouver

This is what happens when foreign investors invade Vancouver

A recent report by Sotheby’s International Realty Canada examined more than twelve hundred luxury-home sales in Vancouver in the first half of 2013 and found that foreign buyers accounted for nearly half of sales, the New Yorker reported.

Just because it doesn’t magically appear in your inbox all packaged up by Stats Canada doesn’t mean it isn’t real.

Someone needs to wake up.

Did you ever see the UBC study that proved up to 30% of downtown Vancouver condos were owned by offshore investors and were vacant? Nah… no issue there.

I addressed that meaningless article last week. Try to keep up. — Garth

#94 Julia on 05.31.14 at 10:56 am

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27501938?ocid=socialflow_twitter
Could the era of glass skyscrapers be over?

#95 MATHMAN on 05.31.14 at 11:06 am

Make no mistake, we have a subprime crisis in this country. The young who have bought the last 5 years, with Mommy and Daddies money, still have to make their payments. As the CMHC data clearly shows, it is people on the margin that are keeping the fire burning. Anyone, and I mean anyone with a pulse can get a MTG in this country and i welcome any opinion to the contrary. My barrista at Starbucks owns her place.

CMHC will hurt the responsible CDN taxpayer the most, that is a certainty. Once that happens I will be leaving this country. CMHC should have never insured MTG’s over a million or 500k for that matter, the mission is to make home ownership more attainable not stoke the bubble

The sad reality is we could have made proactive changes after Fanny/Freddie, but instead we went the opposite direction. Unless we have some sort of economic miracle, the housing market is going to crush the CDN economy, and we will be in the same boat as Ireland. Everyone wanted to live in Ireland, Dublin was a world class City, heaps of skilled deep pocketed immigrants to propel home prices. Google what happened….we are not different just to dumb to take advantage of hindsight provided by many other countries.

#96 Geomancer on 05.31.14 at 11:41 am

“#12 Geomancer on 05.30.14 at 6:43 pm
——————————————–
So by inferring from what you’re not saying, no one buys a house for the reason of living in it as a home? That purchases are driven by some type of societal brain washing? ”

I love the way you skirted over the other facts…that there is no culture. no music, art scene, galleries, museums, cool neighborhoods…etc etc. Thats denial isn’t it? I love how super mortgages have spawned Vancouver’s ‘Poverty Look’ …where all the condo owners shop at the thrift store for used clothes because they can’t afford new…….And how the food banks are doing a roaring business off new home buyers.

And to answer your question…..no one I have talked to says they’re ‘buying a home’……It’s always a breathless gasp ” I bought a condo”…as if the zeitgeist has just caught up with them and they’re somehow made whole….it’s pathetic.

#97 Nemesis on 05.31.14 at 11:42 am

#SillySaturday #There’sGoldInThemTharHills #Don’tBogartThatJointMyFriend

“It’s a total mindset change.” – Robert McAllister, Enertopia

[PentictonHerald] – Resource companies hoping to mine weed

…”Days after he inked a deal to create a large medical-marijuana facility in Ontario, Chris Bunka is taking a hard look at the prospect of installing a similar plant in the Okanagan…

…Kelowna city council adopted bylaws this week that permit growing medical marijuana on industrial land. Bunka is suddenly interested in building a factory in his own neck of the woods…

…The federal government estimates the marijuana business will generate more than $3 billion a year to supply at least 400,000 registered patients within a decade. A new league of pot-preneurs, including Bunka and McAllister, hope to cash in.

Their two firms recently collaborated to spend $1.4 million each on a 75,000-square-foot facility in Southern Ontario. Enertopia is retrofitting a former pig farm near Lake Diefenbaker in Saskatchewan, where the growing space could expand to 55,000 square feet.

This month, Lexaria entered a letter of intent to develop a growing facility with more than 80,000 square feet of space in the Ottawa valley. Several investors, including the building owner, have agreed to invest up to $2 million in the company.”…

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/local_news/article_40885224-e870-11e3-b5af-0017a43b2370.html

#BonusZen

http://youtu.be/EvGJvzwKqg0

[NoteToGT: Just between the two of us, this is one “ActionPlan”, “FamiliesFirst”, hard-hat wearing, ribbon cutting political Photo-Op that I simply can’t wait to see. Should be quite the hoot. Or is that, “Toot”? Damn, you can never find your Oxford guide to Idioms when you really need it.]

#98 TurnerNation on 05.31.14 at 11:47 am

The other night I went out with a Realtress I met recently. Naturally talk turned towards bedroom matters: 1 bedroom, 1 bedroom + den, and so on. Hard sell.
My mind wandered to REITa MacNeil.

#99 TurnerNation on 05.31.14 at 11:58 am

I know three people who bought old semis in “Upper Leslieville” [sic] or “near Beaches”.
Two had expensive roof and evestrough repairs. These are old worn out clunkers. Paid 600,000+

#100 Andrew Woburn on 05.31.14 at 12:20 pm

#20 Seeing it from both sides on 05.30.14 at 7:19 pm

Sony visual effects arm quits California to employ up to 700 in downtown Pacific Centre space
===========================

I was not surprised by Sony’s move to Greater Vancouver but their decision to locate in the costly heart of downtown amazed me. For that much office space, in a business that can almost be anywhere, I would have expected them to choose a suburban location like Burnaby or Richmond with its direct access to the airport.

Until recently, “Silicon Valley” has been largely a series of suburban office parks. Now startups there are finding they need to cluster in San Francisco to attract millenials who want to be downtown and don’t want cars. Sony’s move downtown indicates the same forces are at work in Vancouver.

Perhaps it is just a Blinding Flash of the Obvious but the Sony announcement crystallizes for me that the attitudes of the urban dwelling, car avoiding millenial may not be a just a passing youthful fashion statement. There may be a sea change underway in the makeup of cities. Maybe many of those people who live with the city’s costs in their thirties will tough out the compromises needed to stay there in their forties and fifties. Maybe they won’t retrace their parent’s path to the burbs.

Yes, this process has been underway in Vancouver for some time now, but it was the sheer scale of Sony’s move that grabbed my attention. This is a large chunk of very expensive property in a congested, very expensive city. Obviously few Sony employees will drive to work. They can Skytrain to the airport in 25 minutes. They can walk from a Yaletown condo in five minutes.

Sony could have located at fifty cheaper locations in the lower Mainland. Clearly it believes its long term bet on a high price city office is essential in the competition for high tech talent. Suburban office space developers should take careful note.

#101 SCIBADUBADEBUMBADO on 05.31.14 at 12:20 pm

RE: #12 Geomancer on 05.30.14 at 6:43 pm
(Young Canadians have substituted for culture….and the lack thereof as lifestyle through real estate ownership. There are no other outlets available…no art. music, dance, dream….style, sport or outlets of any kind other than the effectively advertised sirens song of joining a real estate clique…)

Interesting point. As boomers get older we have become intolerant and selfish. When we were young we Smoked pot and drank perhaps too much. But now we will tolerate no young people having fun! Anything that smacks of fun we will make a new law against it.
Even though we have young people off the roads and into limousines at Grad time we wont tolerate them learning how to drink!. This is a rite of passage. When will we learn to let go? Does anyone know how boring a dry grad is? Smoking man will agree, I’m sure.
In fact Canada is second only to Singapore as the most boring place on earth. We are so full of NIMBY’s (Not in my backyard) that kids can’t even skateboard without running into police responding to a complaint.
In fact our whole society is geared to listening to the lone intolerant complainer killing any initiative, or street party, or bike park.
When we have festivals we make the bar so high that the festival organizers have to pay for policing. Why should they? If 100,000 people come in from outlying areas then the police from those areas should come in and assist with festival policing. They are obviously not as busy in their home towns if many of their citizens have traveled to another area for a festival. What is the difference between policing them in Surrey or moving the police (who are already getting paid) with the people who are traveling to Vancouver for a festival?
Vancouver is the most No Fun City I have ever seen in my life of travels.

#102 jess on 05.31.14 at 12:21 pm

the ” ATM” opportunity network – 50 to 6000 students in one year !

A Guardian investigation into private colleges has uncovered allegations of lax admissions policies, chaotic timetabling and violence in the classroom at Britain’s largest chain of for-profit colleges, the London School of Business and Finance (LSBF). A former lecturer with the group alleges that the fast growth of the company’s student body brought in tuition fees, but standards were allowed to slip. LSBF denies these allegations. The investigation shows how agents working on commission were tasked with recruiting students from the streets – often outside job centres

http://www.theguardian.com/education/video/2014/may/30/private-colleges-students-lecturer-mouse-video

#103 fixie guy on 05.31.14 at 12:22 pm

So we finally stopped blaming wrinkly Boomers for this housing mess? Or are they still the root cause for not raising better children?

#104 SCIBADUBADEBUMBADO on 05.31.14 at 12:37 pm

Our governments mantra:

SHELTER THE MONEY
NOT
SHELTER THE PEOPLE

#105 SCIBADUBADEBUMBADO on 05.31.14 at 12:43 pm

Re: #95 MATHMAN on 05.31.14 at 11:06 am

CMHC and FANNY/FREDDIE are political tools.

Private enterprise should be doing this job but if you are a Government and you want to get re-elected and the economy is slow. Then simply use CMHC to goose the real estate market near election time to make things look good!

#106 Buy? Curious? on 05.31.14 at 12:43 pm

#82 gladiator on 05.31.14 at 8:58 am

You are deluded. That had to be the worst arguement ever! I hope you didn’t have to pay for your education. Do you really think house prices are going to go down that much? Are you crazy? You think 70% of the population are heading for 50% reduction in their biggest asset and the government and their owners are going to let that happen? Even Garth, Canada’s financial Don Cherry thinks at worst the correction will be 15% (whateveh’s) followed by a slow melt.

But hey, I’m not here to tell you what to do, I’m here to pick up chicks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSKBoO5hBHk

#107 young & foolish on 05.31.14 at 1:08 pm

Many speak about prices “returning to the mean” (like a 3 times earnings scenario ….. ). But is that the real mean?
Go back before the boomer years and you see RE as something held by the well to do, with workers living in rented quarters or shacks. Today’s “owners” are really just paying rent to the banks. It’s a kind of illusion, sort of like the “customer is always right” nonsense. RE will never be cheap in areas people want or need to live.

#108 2CntCdn on 05.31.14 at 1:09 pm

What kills me in all of this is that when it all blows up …. every single person (young and old, new owners and “shoulda been working towards retirement” folks) will immediately figure out what they SHOULD have done. But it will be too late. People in heavily leveraged positions or needing their (currently big) home equity to use towards a retirement plan still have a chance to put things right. But the door is slowly closing.

#109 young & foolish on 05.31.14 at 1:27 pm

Herb asks ——- “What else is there to say about this government and the people who vote for it?

I suspect Herb, like many, expected “change” would come with Harper’s conservatives (and now Hudak) …. sigh*
The only change we ever get is between the colours blue and red. Nobody really wants, or could seriously handle, real change.

#110 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 2:22 pm

#109 young & foolish – you made a fatal error as the PM was not and never will be a Conservative in the traditional sense. He was a man with many hats of deception such as Reform, Alliance, Northern Foundation, and the National Citizen’s Coalition.

#111 Mark on 05.31.14 at 2:40 pm

“You think 70% of the population are heading for 50% reduction in their biggest asset and the government and their owners are going to let that happen? “

Do you really think that the government can stop a RE price decline as it seriously gets started in a big way? Lookat how many trillions they’ve thrown at “the problem” in the USA, only to achieve very little in terms of meaningful results.

Besides, many Canadians own other asset classes, like stocks, which should benefit from RE going down.

If you have 50% of your net worth in stocks, 50% in housing — and housing loses 50%, but your stocks triple (ie: the TSX does what it did in the 1990s!) — is there really any loss?

Of course the general problem is that lots of Canadians aren’t properly diversified. So there will be big winners and losers created. But the housing bubble has also created big winners, particularly those who bought a decade ago on CMHC backed sub-prime loans and have seen their equity multiply 10-fold or more. So yesterday’s winners = tomorrow’s losers.

#112 Mark on 05.31.14 at 2:49 pm

“I suppose that close to 100% of CMHC insured mortgages involved borrowing at least 80%. (’cause you don’t need it if you borrow 80% or less)”

Wrong. The threshold for subprime in Canada is, in practice, significantly higher than lower than 80% LTV. However, the bank will generally pay for the CMHC subprime mortgage insurance on loans that are less than 80% LTV.

#113 gladiator on 05.31.14 at 2:55 pm

@106 Buy? Curious?
I sincerely hope I am deluded, because if not – I will suffer from the RE collapse as well – indirectly from a weaker economy, from higher probability of being laid off, from depressed people everywhere, etc.
For the government to be able to stop an RE collapse, it has to have good tools and the best one is the level of rates: the higher they are at the onset of a crisis, the more power the government has to stop or slow it down. Well, guess what: rates are at all-times lows and have very little room on the downside; moreover, rates are directly influenced by the bond markets and this reduces the power of this instrument. People are tapped-out and drowning in debt they already took. Home ownership at all-time highs in Canada. etc. etc.
For this market to keep growing, it needs a constant influx of new buyers and it looks like in smaller cities and towns it is drying up. And lastly, at this time the general view is still that housing is a good investment. Wait for that view to turn on its head and see what happens. It happened already in so many places and it will happen here – fundamentals can be ignored only for so long. The issue now is a humongous gap between the reality of high prices and fundamentals of low incomes that cannot sustain those high prices. History shows that bubbles always burst and things return to normal, and “normal” is something fundamentally sustainable. But while bursting, bubbles also create overreaction to the downside, that is, prices overcorrect: they fall below their fundamentally sustainable level. When that happens here, you will be surprised to see 50% crash in prices in locations that were “crash-proof”. Again, I am not rooting for it – I just say what I think might happen, because no one knows what future will be like.
Luckily for me and my family, my wife could not care less about owning vs renting – she loves our rented apartment, its location and the fact that we focus not on increasing the amount of stuff we own, but on the amount of experiences we enjoy together: kayaking, hiking, camping, traveling, researching nature with the kids, exposing them to new experiences and enriching their view of the world. A home is a place to live in, and not to worship and be a slave of.

#114 Alykhan on 05.31.14 at 3:15 pm

Total newbie question: Are Realtor fees negotiable in BC? My sister is responsible for selling our family townhome in Victoria and she is telling me that she has called around and every realtor is telling her they are not… Thats its 3% on the first $X and then 1.5% after that. Anyone have any advice?

#115 Smoking Man on 05.31.14 at 3:15 pm

#109 young & foolish on 05.31.14 at 1:27 pm

If voting matterd, they wouldn’t let us do it

#116 Mark on 05.31.14 at 3:28 pm

“I will not cry for ruined speculators, for parents whose “help-for-downpayment” evaporated, for foreign investors, etc. They deserve that. I will feel bad for the poor kids who will have to either go through bankruptcy at an early age (what a way to start an adult life!) or will have to carry negative net worth for a long time (as history proves for Canada and as current times prove it for the rest of the world). “

I think the truly sad thing is that many of these kids don’t even realize that they’re ‘speculating’.

#117 Robbie on 05.31.14 at 3:33 pm

#115 Alykhan Realtor fees are always negotiable. It would be price-fixing if they were not, which is illegal. I’m a Realtor in the Greater Victoria area and I am aware of a number of circumstances where Realtor fees have been lower than the “usual fee”. Of course, if you want a lowered fee it would be advisable for your sister to price realistically so the Realtor has a decent chance to sell it….some Sellers still seem to believe that Real Estate never drops in value and Victoria property values have dropped a fair bit over the past few years.

#118 Ralph Cramdown on 05.31.14 at 3:47 pm

#115 Alykhan on — “Are Realtor fees negotiable in BC? My sister is responsible for selling our family townhome in Victoria and she is telling me that she has called around and every realtor is telling her they are not…”

They are negotiable, but you probably don’t want to skimp on what you offer the buyer’s agent, just on what you pay your own. Don’t call and ask about fees. Call and set up a meeting at the property to talk about the market, the agent’s style, marketing plan, neighbourhood homes for sale and recently sold, etc, etc. After you’ve burned as much of the agent’s time as you can, only then talk about fees. And interview a number of them.

#119 Andrew Woburn on 05.31.14 at 3:48 pm

#107 young & foolish on 05.31.14 at 1:08 pm
Many speak about prices “returning to the mean” (like a 3 times earnings scenario ….. ). But is that the real mean?
Go back before the boomer years and you see RE as something held by the well to do, with workers living in rented quarters or shacks. Today’s “owners” are really just paying rent to the banks. It’s a kind of illusion, sort of like the “customer is always right” nonsense. RE will never be cheap in areas people want or need to live.
===================================

Real estate has never been perceived as cheap in terms of average incomes. My great-aunt bought a brick bungalow on the outskirts of Hamilton, Ontario in 1958 for $9,000 but the average annual wage then was around $2,500.

There has always been relatively affordable housing available to average wage earners. The problem usually was in staying sober or lucky enough to save up a 20 25% down payment. In many places in Canada you see 800-1,000 sq ft SFH which were built for workers as were the old city semi-detacheds now in vogue.

There is no magic to 3x earnings other than as a rule of thumb evolved over time by prudent mortgage lenders who were risking their own money. If government vacated the high ratio mortgage guarantee business, you would see a fairly quick reversion to the mean. I believe though, the 3x referred to the mortgage carry so, with a 25% DP the actual house price was about 4x.

A lot of our ideals about housing costs and availability were developed in the Sixties when there were half as many Canadians as there are now, and a far smaller percentage lived in urban cores or even wanted to. This urban concentration and related price escalation has been facilitated and accelerated by 5% down payments. But even if we went back to a 3x mortgage regime, I suspect urban prices won’t really crash back to less than say 5 or 6x since urban kids would live on macaroni to save up the difference.

#120 sheane wallace on 05.31.14 at 4:05 pm

#105 SCIBADUBADEBUMBADO on 05.31.14 at 12:43 pm
Re: #95 MATHMAN on 05.31.14 at 11:06 am

CMHC and FANNY/FREDDIE are political tools.
………………………
No, they are banker’s tools, it has nothing to do with politics.
Only in Ca and USA the bankers got their way out from liability on home mortgages this is why they were and are so reckless.

It is amoral and I don’t see how it could be legal but hey, it somehow is and they are riding it successfully.

Politicians clearly have no moral ground and they would certainly not care when the thing hits the fan.
Taxpayers would be screed but no one will care, suck it up an move on, proud Canadian, Toronto Maple Leafs blah blah blah.

Re: #95 MATHMAN, The move out is certain, I am myself moving to Europe in 1-2 years as I certainly would like to retire after 60-65 not like the poor soles I saw at Highland Farms today arranging staff on shelves in their late 60-es/the non to retire generation.

#121 sheane wallace on 05.31.14 at 4:10 pm

not to retire, damn it

#122 angela on 05.31.14 at 4:13 pm

@#84 test on 05.31.14 at 9:38 am
you wrote
Look at the world-class cities of Vancouver and Toronto and Montreal. Real estate values in those three cities (sorry Calgary, you’re not even close to being world class) will NEVER EVER EVER go down
you are dreaming perhaps you should look at the vancouver market here you ignorant person with a PHD in bullshit
http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress.com/

#123 angela on 05.31.14 at 4:17 pm

LOL house created at a cost of over 9 million now selling for 5.8million in VANCOUVER

http://www.realtylink.org/prop_search/Detail.cfm?MLS=V1047207

#124 sheane wallace on 05.31.14 at 4:18 pm

poor souls, darn spellchecker

#125 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 4:32 pm

Now lets take a hard look at Caesar or our dignified PM, and dare not mention another association he was affiliated with because you might be shocked by it all. So lets look at the NCC that he was President of in 1998 to ascertain not only the agenda, but if the tiger removed his spots over time as a mistake of youthful fancy. I will review but a few and you decide.

He was against the following that needed to be reformed or destroyed down the memory hole, so pay attention.

– The Canada Health Act
– The Canadian Wheat Board
– Refugees coming into Canada
– The Mandatory Long Form Census
– Unions
– Government Waste ???

#126 Hillbilly on 05.31.14 at 4:37 pm

comment # 8 Shawn

My guess is if you have to own a house to attact a mate, well the you ain’t much of a person in the first place or you is fishin’ in the wrong pond.

#127 Hillbilly on 05.31.14 at 4:38 pm

spelling mistake on comment above, should be attract, not “attact”

damned moonshine is a bit too strong !

#128 Hillbilly on 05.31.14 at 4:45 pm

comment # 12 Geomancer

Good post, agree to a large degree, but would add that those other pursuits require energy, creativity and balls.
Signing a mortgage is so much less demanding and you still achieve “status”.

#129 SWL1976 on 05.31.14 at 4:49 pm

#106 Buy? Curious?

Are you serious??? You seem quite angry.

Anyways I thought that was a very logical point made in response to your radical view, that to other people is also ‘deluded’

Do you really think the goverment is going to step in because 70% of the population is heading for 50% reduction??? Even if they do step in, there are not a lot of options left at this point. Did you ever consider that the goverment might just want this to happen, just to cripple all the debt slaves out there, and further enslave an entire nation. There is a much bigger picture than what you see from your front porch

Open your mind and process other opionions other than your own

#130 Hillbilly on 05.31.14 at 5:12 pm

comment # 77

Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto are world class cities?
By what definition?
Where do you come up with this crap?

Have you ever been to / lived in a world class city?

A city’s population is not an appropriate metric, it is its attributes, services, facilities, livability, reputation, arts scene, culture, desireability, etc. that make a city truly world class.

The rest of your post is the same bs dished up by the apologists for this hugely inflated gasbag of a RE market.

#131 devore on 05.31.14 at 5:18 pm

#72 Aggregator

And? The average Vancouverite is not in the market for a “luxury-home”.

#132 devore on 05.31.14 at 5:33 pm

#91 Herb

Because they are not interested in changing government, but in occupying it. The Conservatives are the “Ottawa elites” they decry, only they hope to dupe their supporters, for whose intelligence they evidently have abiding contempt, by keeping an army of convenient whipping boys on hand. And why not? It’s worked so far.

The “hope and change” crowd deserves everything they get, every time.

#133 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 5:34 pm

The reduction in Real Estate prices during the next several years will be directly proportional to many factors. Province location, city location, special circumstances, housing type, neighborhood, and factors relating to such as schools, transportation, and important facilities nearby to support asset value. Thus there will be a variety of asset losses from coast to coast ranging from 5% to 50% which the market will determine. What will the average meltdown be – who knows?

#134 Hillbilly on 05.31.14 at 5:34 pm

comment @ 119 Ralph Cramdown

Good advice.

#135 Aggregator on 05.31.14 at 5:42 pm

DELETED
(When you start posting under your own name you can trash other people. — Garth)

#136 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 5:53 pm

Now will give you an example of special circumstances which determines Real Estate value. One can purchase a 2 bedroom condo in the off core of Toronto with condo fees a mere $536.00 a month for $79,000. It has a balcony, underground parking, and even an indoor pool – Kingsview Village on Dixon Road, so who could ask for more? Hurry and make an offer :)

#137 natrx on 05.31.14 at 5:58 pm

I’m under 35, but it seems like so many young people feel desperate to get into a house and set up their perfect life.

If you read or see alot of these stories, or go to those yuppie/hipster Open houses, they often have a 1 yr old (give or take a couple of months). Many, especially Danforth East are overbidding and buying without inspection clauses.

And being close to that Park is a must.

#138 Internal Auditor on 05.31.14 at 6:12 pm

Garth your math is a little over the top, $1,650 rent for a place that carries at $3,000 per month? Where do you find those numbers? No 1 bedroom condo in Toronto rents for $1,650 and carries at $3,000. We rented a junior 1 bedroom (aka solarium = bedroom) at $1,435 and the landlord paid $300,000 for it. If someone bought that with 5% down, which equates to 97.5% loan to value (adding back CMHC) with property taxes and maintenance fees the place would go for roughly $2,000 which is far less than your numbers.

I value your opinion but you don’t need to fib the #’s like the cartel. Makes you look no different from them.

33 Bay Street, Toronto, 1+1 apartment. Buy for $449,900, or rent for $1,650. Do the math. — Garth

#139 Harbour on 05.31.14 at 6:20 pm

#127 Hillbilly

Wait till they take your house and you end up in your parents basement with child support payments.

#140 Bottoms_Up on 05.31.14 at 6:32 pm

#115 Alykhan on 05.31.14 at 3:15 pm
——————————————-
They are always negotiable, the % you are quoted are ‘suggested’ fees, but most agents will tell you they are set in stone.

Be wary, however, that agents may stonewall your listing if you try to undercut commission. Happens all the time, but in a slower market it may not.

#141 Bottoms_Up on 05.31.14 at 6:36 pm

#107 young & foolish on 05.31.14 at 1:08 pm
———————————————
It’s like paying rent to the bank, but you forget you are also paying yourself (with 5% down and today’s rates, it’s about 50/50). Eventually, you will own the home. And hopefully it’s worth what you paid to the bank as rent AND what you paid yourself in equity over all those years.

#142 just some guy on 05.31.14 at 6:37 pm

So if we scrap the CMHC we could have reasonable housing prices again.

#143 triplenet on 05.31.14 at 6:55 pm

will real estate values revert to the mean or to form?
does it matter?
pay attention to market value.
all the rest of the banter is quasi academic rambling.

#144 Herb on 05.31.14 at 7:36 pm

#116 Smoking Man,

If voting matterd, [sic] they wouldn’t let us do it.

You’re growing up, Dear Boy! But voting actually does matter.

The only reason it doesn’t is because our votes are so easy to be had. A bit of a lie here or there, a dash of wishful thinking, a small bribe with our own money, and we have sold our democratic birthright. At least ya got a bottle of booze out of it in the bad old days.

Man, we’re cheap, and the bastards know it!

#145 Smoking Man on 05.31.14 at 7:48 pm

#141 Herb on 05.31.14 at 7:36 pmIf voting matterd, [sic] they wouldn’t let us do it.

You’re growing up, Dear Boy! But voting actually does matter.
……

Herb technology exists to allow all of us to vote on policy. Bills, legislation.

Now that would be Democratic..

The little X basically gives your endorsement to those that win the right to issue debt, spending money guaranteeing it’s repayment with your Labour..

It’s called a bond…

I never use to vote, but do now.

Trying to stop communists, it’s futile but at leased I can make fun of others that do then suffer from their choice..

Can’t believe Wynnee is going to win…

#146 Herb on 05.31.14 at 7:49 pm

#109 young and foolish,

right on! I voted Conservative on January 23, 2006 because I expected young Harper to deliver on his new way of doing politics, more open and accountable government, etc. etc. And as the “New Government of Canada” was being sworn in on the morning of February 6, 2006 and Emerson took the oath, I realized that I had been had. We had the same in spades!

And everything Harper has done since has reinforced that sad conclusion.

#147 Daisy Mae on 05.31.14 at 7:50 pm

#101 SCIB: “In fact our whole society is geared to listening to the lone intolerant complainer killing any initiative, or street party, or bike park.”

****************

This is true. In all areas of our lives. All the wrong people have the ‘rights’. Been saying this for 40 years….

#148 Herb on 05.31.14 at 7:51 pm

#133 Devore,

sadly, you’re right. But if we cannot believe that a politician for once will tell the truth and do as he has promised, what do we base our voting decision on?

#149 Daisy Mae on 05.31.14 at 8:10 pm

No peanut butter sandwiches in schools…because 1% is allergic.

No perfumes can be used by staff in hospitals…because 1% of patients are allergic. All the wrong people have the rights….

#150 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 8:20 pm

#149 Herb – the answer is blowing in the wind –

“To prefer evil to good is not in human nature; and when a man is compelled to choose one of two evils, no one will choose the greater when he might have the less.”

– Plato

#151 45north on 05.31.14 at 8:28 pm

Andrew Woburn : Sony could have located at fifty cheaper locations in the lower Mainland. Clearly it believes its long term bet on a high price city office is essential in the competition for high tech talent. Suburban office space developers should take careful note.

here’s a related article about San Francisco:

http://theclarkreport.com/2014/05/who’s-going-to-brew-morning-lattes-for-san-fran-vulgarians/

come to think of it, you’re not John Clark are you?

#152 Don Derc on 05.31.14 at 8:30 pm

Sheane Wallace and Smoking Man….on fire as usual – always a pleasure to read….

#153 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 8:32 pm

There is a documentary on channel APTN at 9:00 PM tonight about The Harper Government. Let me get my glasses to catch the title; oh yes its called “One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest.”

#154 Protea on 05.31.14 at 8:50 pm

Came across a 70 yr.women who is a widow.She told me that that her townhouse in Surrey is worth $425k mortgage of $330,000. Problem she bought Life Insurance from the bank costing her $365/month.5 years ago the cost was $175/month.
She has 2 daughters in their 30’s and her dilemma she wants to leave her kids some $$ when she drops off the perch. Affordability of the Life Ins. goes up every 5 years and she can hardly afford it right now.
I told her to cancel the insurance and rather use the payments to reduce the current mortgage, also the kids will have to look after themselves. The bank who loaned her the mortgage as she needed $$260k said she qualified for an additional $70k so why not consolidate the mortgage and have the extra $$ to use elsewhere. Now the poor women is cash poor as the extra amt. is spoken for. Very sad story.

#155 OttawaMike on 05.31.14 at 8:53 pm

This opinion piece gets to the root of the neo con Manichean world view. There is only good or bad, you’re with us or against us. This is how they justify their means.

http://opencanada.org/features/what-is-stephen-harper-afraid-of/

#156 SCIBADUBADEBUMBADO on 05.31.14 at 8:56 pm

#146 Smoking Man on 05.31.14 at 7:48 pm

The Swiss have had 7 referendums this year already!
We have had one chance to vote in our 4 year dictator, 3 years ago.

We are simply the peasant, peons. “let them eat cake”.

The Americans are worse off with the “Best Democracy Corporations can Buy”!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2014

#157 Tim Hudak's Math Tutor on 05.31.14 at 9:08 pm

I wish everyone would just lay off Tim and his Million Jobs Plan.

How many of you really know how to do math? Not many, I bet. Most of you doorknobs can’t even properly challenge Garth on his math, and he spanks you every time you try.

Yes, Tim counted jobs created eight times each. But think about it, every January 2, each of these people starts fresh in their job once again after a generous one day statutory holiday. It is just like a new job, so why not count it each year again? New year, new person, that’s what I say. Do you hate new beginnings, you bitter basement dwellers?

The Million Jobs Plan is based upon a solid foundation of post-Reagan math in the spirit of Ayn Rand.
Tim did his masters in economics in Washington state, but he was distracted a lot by all the grow ops around there and his attention may have suffered. His fault? Absolutely not! Blame the lie-berals who were passing around the joints, I say!

Besides, his math really does work. Let me show you, in case your brain has been too contaminated by lying left wing calculus.

How do you make 8 x 8 = 1000?

Simple:

888 +
88 +
8 +
8 +
8

= 1000

Now do you understand the Million Jobs Plan? If not, you need some more home schooling right away, and stay away from government schools at all costs, they only indoctrinate, they don’t educate.

For now, I am doing my best to help Tim when he has free time on the weekends and we’ll be doing a math session again tomorrow on Twitter.

I do have to apologize, though. It’s really my fault that he was not able to explain his plan better, because I could not help as much as I would have liked to. I have been extra busy with my regular day job.

Doing the monthly stats for TREB.

#158 :):( Ying Tang on 05.31.14 at 9:39 pm

Smoking man I thought you would be at Seneca casino tonight drinking up a storm. Or are you out on your boat show being angry words against God all day.
Either way it was a beautiful day!

#159 Nemesis on 05.31.14 at 9:51 pm

#TheLongSlowDecline #ThisWeekend’sBestMapleLeafThinkPiece #Would’veSavedItForSunday #ButWhyNotEnjoyItNowYouLiquoredUpSaltyDogs #HintsForBrothers&Sisters:WhenTheGoingGet’sWeirdTheWeirdTurnPro #Q:HowIsWindsorLikeSheffield? #A:HotStuff/OfCourse!

#YourWeekendThinkPiece,SaltyDogz:

[G&M] – The long, slow decline of the nation’s industrial heartland

…”I shot in black and white to express the nostalgia that came to me when I saw places like the shuttered GM plant in Windsor and the streets of London and Kitchener. I wanted to offer the viewer a small part of the emotions felt by someone who grew up in these places. I also worked to make a connection with the next generation growing up in struggling industry towns. These are the kids who were raised on blue-collar incomes but will likely never experience a day of work on an assembly line.” — Ian Willms

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/after-the-gold-rush/article18923563/

#WhenTheGoingGet’sWeirdTheWeirdTurnPro
#SometimesNothingLessThanTheFullMontyWillDo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA3W36JVnRc

[NoteToGT: Just between the two of us… it’s rather heartening to see the Mop&Pail get back to it’s Roots. If they keep this up, I might even come out of ‘Retirement’. OhYes! I simply must tell you about Dr.Paula and Sheffield one day. Or was it Leicester?]

#BonusZenAuthenticPeriodHotStuff

http://youtu.be/sPpgYAFw-mA

#160 Patient in Richmond on 05.31.14 at 10:24 pm

#77 Woke To The Sounds Of Horking

you are wrong my friend .Hoses here in richmond have come down by as much as 200.000 already in the last few month .The chinese money is drying up .wait another year and you will see another drop around 10-20 % .

#161 Patient in Richmond on 05.31.14 at 10:25 pm

and yes its hoses not houses if you look at all the new houses being build …:-)

#162 Nemesis on 05.31.14 at 10:42 pm

#BonusZenForBrothers&SistersEveryWhere

http://youtu.be/KdOCWUgwiWs

#163 Nemesis on 05.31.14 at 10:44 pm

#TopOfThePopsHDAddendum

http://youtu.be/tjDxZqQhRBU

#164 Herb on 05.31.14 at 10:48 pm

#151 Old Man,

no man chooses any evil. The problem is that evil is chosen solely because it seems to be good to or for the chooser.

moi

#165 Old Man on 05.31.14 at 11:35 pm

#165 Herb – you are not comprehending the wisdom of Plato as he clearly states that man’s nature is to choose good over evil. The philosophical question at hand is what to do when ‘compelled’ to choose one of two evils. On the one hand not to vote at all and walk away in defeat because any evil is bad, or to make a moral choice between the greater or the less. Plato is suggesting a compromise as a no vote is surrendering to evil, but a vote to the less is not only a duty, but in effect diminishes the evil as a whole for a greater good.

#166 Setting the Record Straight on 05.31.14 at 11:40 pm

@91
I apologize for inserting politics into a finance/RE site once again, but I can’t resist linking to the most cogent comment one of my favourite columnists has produced so far –

Why, eight years later, does the federal government look pretty much the same as it did when the Conservatives took power?

Why? Because they are not interested in changing government, but in occupying it. The Conservatives are the “Ottawa elites” they decry, only they hope to dupe their supporters, for whose intelligence they evidently have abiding contempt, by keeping an army of convenient whipping boys on hand. And why not? It’s worked so far.

What else is there to say about this government and the people who vote for it?

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/Coyne+real+conservative+government+would+reform/9894022/story.html

******
Same as old government and people who voted for it
‘If voting mattered they’d make it illegal.’

#167 Steve French on 05.31.14 at 11:48 pm

***DELETED***

#168 Big Leafs Fan on 05.31.14 at 11:48 pm

#155 Protea
I could be wrong but I believe the bank would have cancelled her insurance anyway due to her age.

#169 Jim on 06.01.14 at 12:59 am

Don Cherry Dominion Lending new spokesperson – YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0NhUVlmTPg

#170 eddy on 06.01.14 at 1:24 am

These guys think Flaherty was murdered:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2526731/pg1

#171 Andrew Woburn on 06.01.14 at 2:04 am

A cautionary tale about believing stuff on the internet

The Truth About Auto Sales
By Barry Ritholtz
http://bv.ms/1t9MUOf

#172 alex grant on 06.01.14 at 2:35 am

To #77 — Have you ever been outside of Vancouver because if you have you shouldn’t have the small mind of a provincial thinking that Vancouver is “world class,” a term that the local realtors and the city’s tourist bureau throw around recklessly. Neither are Toronto or Montreal for that matter although the former is much closer in the category, being the largest by far in population and the business leader of the country, if nothing else.
In the western world, the cities New York, London, Paris, Rome and Athens might be considered, each for different attributes but Vancouver, probably never and certainly not in our lifetime. It is an appealing city though, if a bit provincial.

#173 juno on 06.01.14 at 4:52 am

Interesting not a super mad rush before the end of the chmc funded 2nd house and self employed.

Its going to be interesting on how the market reacts from here on. I’m sure the banks and government will intervene to spice up more debt so the big banks (your new landlords) can continue with their record breaking earnings

#174 juno on 06.01.14 at 5:05 am

#117 Mark on 05.31.14 at 3:28 pm

================
Mark did you ever watch that move “DUMB AND DUMBER”

did you laugh or cry. Well I laugh my head off especially at the end when she says there no way in hell I’ll ever go out with you…. Well a perhaps a .0001% chance.

Jim carey’s face lights up and says there is a chance…..

Well I don’t feel sorry for people who hedge and make dumb financial solutions. They will probably go into bankruptcy and offload the risk onto the taxpayers which will be your children. And in a couple of years repeat eat eat eat eat…. Alot of these financial ill-responsible people should of never gotten loans in the first place. Its government intervention which allows all this to happen

#175 Dr. Wu on 06.01.14 at 5:35 am

Tim’s got a plan for a million jobs? People don’t want jobs, they want ‘positions’, that’s the problem.
Obama added the prefix ‘good paying’ in front of his lies.
At the risk of sounding elitist, the myth of the middle class was just an expansion (and temporary ‘elevation’ in incomes and education) of what was the peasantry, we’re getting back to historical normalcy- rich and poor.

Re: Harper’s Bizarre interview

That’s why his interviews are so rare, his mouth is big enough for both feet.

#176 Realtor # 1 GTA on 06.01.14 at 7:25 am

There are plenty of listings. Listings for the last month according to redpin.com has been increasing even though we are entering the slow season.

I don’t understand the theory I can’t sell my home because I can’t afford anything else?? I will agree upgrading is difficult unless you move further out of the city. Sell high/ Buy high

Condo dwellers are stuck and well as savers. They can’t pull out enough equity or save enough to keep up with the price increase of a SFD

Interest rates will not go much higher. This economic environment is extremely interest rate sensitive. Consumers are already stretched

When lenders decide not to lend then it will slow down.

#177 drydock on 06.01.14 at 8:15 am

# 70 Smoking Man

You want a new religion, try the Church of Bob.
Google it.

#178 Bob on 06.01.14 at 9:19 am

“Coming”? Housing Correction… say what ? Where I live here in the East Kootenay’s, it is already in full blown decline.
We were… I say this in past tense, an investment and recreational destination for the monied Albertans from Calgary, etc. 2nd homes, cottages, yada, yada. Think of it as a pressure wave that started back around 2000, skyrocketed and peaked around 2007, did the levelling thing through 2008-2011…. and now over the last 3 years has been accelerating it’s plunge.
Hard to tell what anything is worth now ?… because the only thing that ever gets sold is the odd first timer armed with the “pre-approved” Mortage, mostly starters if and when they can be found.
The rest of the stuff… well… most of it you can’t give it away…. Nobody knows what it is worth ? … but most asssuredly only what someone is willing to pay ?
For now, nobody has freaked out…. yet… and although asking Prices have declined, Realtors have been somewhat successful maintaining the aura of merely a temporary blip with “it’ll come back”.
Within a month or so, IMO, we’ll start seeing the firesales out here… just to get out at any cost.

#179 Smoking Man on 06.01.14 at 9:20 am

No such thing as good and evil.

Those terms are based on your programming and culture.

One man’s freedom fighter is another’s terrorist.

#180 TurnerNation on 06.01.14 at 10:59 am

Herb it was obviously so. I was always unfooled. Another, with the deadness is Stockwell. But he seems like a dream compared against today’s crop. Some to to pray. Others prey. Another handpicked one, in the US is Bobby Jindal check his pics. Many abound.

#181 BillyBob on 06.01.14 at 11:06 am

#90 Bottoms_Up on 05.31.14 at 10:13 am

Given that your company pays your rent, it’s pretty convenient to say you wouldn’t touch housing with a ten foot pole.

But what if you had to pay your own rent? What if you knew you’d be renting for the next 25 yrs? That might change your thoughts.

====================================

Still wouldn’t buy now. Housing simply isn’t good value. I don’t buy things that aren’t a bargain. Fortunately I have that luxury. I don’t intend to ever repatriate completely. Six months less 1 day, is plenty enough time to spend in Canada. No way I’m going back to low wages, high taxes, unstable and rapidly shrinking labour market, and a demographic time bomb. Only to retire and work for sheer enjoyment if I choose with no worry about remuneration.

My job is traveling around the world, and I keep tabs on the RE market wherever I happen to be on layover. Canada is truly a joke in what is paid, for what is received. Textbook tulip-mania, solely paid with cheap money.

The g/f is Czech, we’re buying a beautiful old apartment – cash – in Prague for a fraction of what some slapped-together condo in Toronto would cost. I doubt the glass boxes in that “world class” city will be around in another 50 years, let alone the hundreds of years that most structures in PRG have been.

I love Canada and my fellow Canadians, but the nearly total financial ignorance has been fascinating to watch. It’s like a train wreck in slow motion.

#182 Waterloo Resident on 06.01.14 at 11:06 am

Interest rates in the EURO zone are heading lower, a lot lower, all due to the fact that the economies in Europe are fairly DEAD and declining.

Just look at the interest rates on the Spanish 10 yr bonds:
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GSPG10YR:IND

Eventually the interest rates in Europe are going to sink to zero %, probably in 3 or 4 years from now, and when that happens our rates here will also be falling towards zero. So that means no rising rates and the party goes on. Sad but true.

Sad but wholly untrue. Euro rates can go to zero and the Fed (and BoC) will still increase when required. — Garth

#183 maxx on 06.01.14 at 11:24 am

#177 Realtor # 1 GTA on 06.01.14 at 7:25 am

“There are plenty of listings. Listings for the last month according to redpin.com has been increasing even though we are entering the slow season.”

….True, and listing momentum increases daily. However, to be precise, we are not entering the “slow season”, we’ve just started the busiest, compressed by a long winter and book-ended (temporarily) by the end of the school year/beginning of summer holidays in about 3 weeks time. Sales should be “exploding”, “rocketing higher”, on a “blistering pace”, “smoking hot”- let’s see….what others from the re lexicon have I missed?

“I don’t understand the theory I can’t sell my home because I can’t afford anything else?? I will agree upgrading is difficult unless you move further out of the city. Sell high/ Buy high”

…..It is not a “theory”, it is most definitely reality. On a global scale, (and don’t quote London, Paris, Milan or Tokyo) valuations in Canada are insane. Care for a reference or two? Nobody who can spell their name wants to “Sell high/ Buy high”- that would be idiotic. At any rate, in most Canadian markets you aren’t going to “Sell high” as it’s too gosh-darned late now, isn’t it?
Apart from remaining pockets of lunacy, sales are melting (not an opinion, but that of realtor friends about what is actually happening) across many markets and the general population is now wondering just how much more melt is coming. Consideration is being given to other, better ways of investing money, rather than dumping it into real estate.

“Condo dwellers are stuck and well as savers. They can’t pull out enough equity or save enough to keep up with the price increase of a SFD”

……In the first instance, mostly true and in the second, not necessarily so. Most savers with actual cash are certainly savvy enough to see through the old verbal pabulum of real estate floggers and not blow it on phoney-baloney “valuations”. You know very well, as it was repeatedly drummed into you, that re valuation is “AN OPINION” and not a science. This is soooooo convenient, isn’t it? Furthermore, you also know the general perception of realtor opinion.

“Interest rates will not go much higher. This economic environment is extremely interest rate sensitive. Consumers are already stretched”

You don’t control that.
Furthermore, you are no closer to the truth about the future of interest rates than anyone else.
Nor are you in line ahead of anyone else about the future of anything.
Everybody already knows: “This economic environment is extremely interest rate sensitive. Consumers are already stretched”. Teach us something we don’t already know- go ahead, do it…….

“When lenders decide not to lend then it will slow down.”

True. Just as soon as they find a more lucrative way of deploying cash. The re network will not decide that. There may eventually very well be external influence which affects rates…..or perhaps tptb will just get tired of this old hat and switch to another.

RE weasel words don’t work much any more. Least of all, on this blog.

They’re just crashingly boring.

#184 Old Man on 06.01.14 at 11:24 am

#180 Smoking Man – “All that is needed for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.” – K

#185 miketheengineer on 06.01.14 at 11:33 am

Garth et al:

I saw this today, might find it interesting…

http://www.mybudget360.com/too-broke-to-own-a-home-income-housing-values-budget-median-home-value-united-states/

Has some really nice charts.

#186 Diggstown on 06.01.14 at 12:02 pm

@#84 test on 05.31.14 at 9:38 am
you wrote
Look at the world-class cities of Vancouver and Toronto and Montreal. Real estate values in those three cities (sorry Calgary, you’re not even close to being world class) will NEVER EVER EVER go down
you are dreaming perhaps you should look at the vancouver market here you ignorant person with a PHD in bullshit
http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress.com/
*******************************

Angela, you really threw him under the bus. I find your statement as generalized as the original poster though. The link you provided absolutely shows price drops in Vancouver. Many though are due to the greed of the seller who was trying to get in some cases twice the assessment price. If you are going to use words like ignorant then I would suggest you ensure your post is spot on.

#187 Prove it on 06.01.14 at 12:51 pm

When the thing hits the fan a decline of 50-60% is guaranteed, just wait for the 6-8, maybe 10-15 % interest rates and I am not kidding here at all.
Once currencies than as the big inflation is coming the only way to save the economy would be a huge hike in interest rates. It is coming.

Prove it? This has been the agreement since 2008

#188 Mark on 06.01.14 at 1:40 pm

“They can’t pull out enough equity or save enough to keep up with the price increase of a SFD “

Not in the GTA anymore. Prices have been falling for the past year on “identical properties”.

#189 Shawn on 06.01.14 at 1:44 pm

Are 15 Year Olds of “Working Age”?

Statistics Canada shows that the average labour force participation of working age people in Canada in 2013 was 66.5%.

Oh gloom oh doom.

But wait a minute, they define working age as 15 years old and over.

They say:

The LFS covers the civilian, non-institutionalised population 15 years of age and over.

http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&db=imdb&adm=8&dis=2&SDDS=3701&lang=en

The figures for 2013 were:

Of the entire population from age 15 to no upper limit:

Not in the labour force: 33.5%

Unemployed: 7.1%

Employed: 61.8%

As for why that does not total 100%, you can take it up with Stats Canada.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/labor07a-eng.htm

It seems to me that the idea that 15 year olds are of working age is a bit Dickensian. They selected that age apparently just after the second World war.

These days the vast majority of people set some kind o Post-high school education.

A more realistic cut-off for working age would be 21 years of age. (Many are still in school after that and some start working before age 21 but 21 is certainly a better number than 15.

So, the low labour force participation rates we hear about are so low because they include 99 year olds and 15 year olds as part of the labour force.

#190 level hed on 06.01.14 at 1:51 pm

So, Desmond Tutu comes to Canada to say crap about Canadian industry and job creation..invited by a native band….paid for by Tom Steyer…the enemy of all things Canadian. I guess Desmonds piggy bank has drained being out of the limelight for twenty years. What an ass.

#191 Fortune500 on 06.01.14 at 2:03 pm

BillyBob we must be kindred spirits. My wife and I are in almost an identical situation. We keep tabs because so many of our friends and family members are living with the reality, but when you live and work overseas you really see that the value for money just isn’t there. But point this out … and you are labelled a Canada-hater, basement dweller, etc. etc.

#192 Nemesis on 06.01.14 at 2:06 pm

#TheThinkPieceOfTheYear #”BullShitJobs”

[Salon] – David Graeber explains why the more your job helps others, the less you get paid – by Thomas Frank

…”David Graeber is an American anthropologist who teaches at the London School of Economics. He is the author of the classic “Debt: The First Five Thousand Years” and played an important role in the launching of Occupy Wall Street. Last year, he wrote a much-discussed essay asking what happened to society’s old promise of more leisure time for workers; for the tasks that have come to occupy the hours that were once promised to be ours, Graeber invented the delicate and slightly obscure label, “bullshit jobs.”…

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/01/help_us_thomas_piketty_the_1s_sick_and_twisted_new_scheme/

#CompanionPieceBonus’Zen’-WaPoPictorial

[WaPo] – Opportunity’s knocks: Tereza Sedgwick is seeing the economy from the bottom up, where the fastest-growing job in America is also one of the hardest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/05/31/opportunitys-knocks/?hpid=z1

#193 Blacksheep on 06.01.14 at 2:11 pm

# 14 & # 74

“So now I use my mad knowledge to run internet defence for the banking system. That’s why I post redundant information, no body asked for on a regular basis. Sometimes I post 10 times a day, it’s a blast.”

“The money is actually better than you’d think, maybe cause it involves the blog voted best economic think tank in the country. Whatever, it pays the bills.”
—————————-
Just sharing my non satirical opinion with the critical thinkers.

They can decide for themselves, whether I’m full of shit or not.