It happens

dead

If there’s one thing the wrinklies have done well, besides creating a massive industry of thirsty underwear and Low T, it’s real estate. Home ownership may be about 70% in the nation as a whole, but 85% of Boomers have houses. Many of them may be shag-covered particle board suburban hot-tubbed monstrosities, but it’s all still property.

Some of these nine million people (at least a third, it’s estimated) will have to dump their houses to buy Depends and hormones since they lack pensions and retirement assets. Others will want to pass their homes’ value on to their children. In fact, the kids are counting on it. After years of (often useless) university training, student debt, and McJobs in an economy still struggling to shrug off the 2008 crisis, most young people have lousy savings and a worse attitude.

But this inheritance thing isn’t so simple.

Of course, gains in the value of principal residences are tax-free in Canada. And a parent can pass on a house to an offspring without it being considered a ‘deemed disposition.’ But often when there are multiple kids, or the house in question is too embarrassing to own, it gets sold and added to the estate to be distributed to heirs. And that means probate.

Probate fees are taxes, and can suck up to 1.5% of an estate away. To avoid this some parents change the deeds on their houses to include their kids as partial owners. Bad idea. If the real estate appreciates in value before the old people kick, the capital gain’s taxable in the hands of the children in proportion to their ownership if they happen to have a house of their own.

With a cottage, or secondary residence, it gets worse. There is no capital gains tax exemption on that chalet or hobby farm, and if it was acquired years ago when your parents were still scruffy hippies frolicking in the long grass by the river, all that growth is taxable to an heir (from the hair). Lots of people make the mistake of leaving a cottage to all their kids, who then end up in a bloody war over use and taxation.

Best solution: the parents should buy some insurance which will pay all of the tax liability on their estate. And, yes, their children should pay the annual premiums. That only seems fair.

While we’re on this morbid subject, remember this:

  • If a husband and wife have a joint investment account (non-registered), when one of them dies all of the assets in that account flow automatically (without delay or cost) to the other person. This is a big difference from what happens if you maintain separate bank accounts or trading accounts full of stocks or ETFs.
  • When you set up that joint account, ensure you do it correctly. The wording should be ‘joint tenants with rights of survivorship and not ‘tenants in common’, (except if you are in Quebec).
  • Always designate a beneficiary for your RRSP or your TFSA. That way the assets inside those plans will flow free of probate fees (and tax, if to a spouse or common-law partner) to the intended person. Ditto for a life insurance policy. If you name a person, no fee or tax. If you put down ‘estate’ as the beneficiary, the death tax kicks in.
  • If no beneficiary for a TFSA is named then the money becomes part of the estate, and is subject to the probate tax. But if a spouse is named, then the TFSA money from the dearly departed can be added to the survivor’s plan, and won’t affect contribution room (if done within a year).
  • Remember you can give away as much as you want before turning in your boots. Gifts to kids are not taxed, unless they happen to be marketable securities, like the Apple stock you bought at twenty bucks. Then it is deemed to be a sale, and capital gains taxes apply.
  • Estate planning is complicated, but lots of ways exist to ensure wealth is moved from one generation to the next, or between spouses. For example, a father with a small business he wants to give to his daughter can use an estate freeze. That will lock in the current value of the business for him, but attribute all future growth to her, tax-free. Or a guy might establish a testamentary trust into which all assets for his spouse are placed at the time of his death, so when she also splits there’ll be no second round of probate, and the little monsters get it all.

Of course, if you’re a zombie, have parents who are already in cryogenics or just put everything you have into Bitcoins, ignore all of this. You have bigger problems.

159 comments ↓

#1 Toronto Condo market set to CRASH! on 11.20.13 at 9:48 pm

When this gets out it will be GAME OVER for condo market. The game is already over but the final nail will be hit tomorrow

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game

Realtors will be pulling their hair out tomorrow night.

#2 Rick on 11.20.13 at 9:48 pm

Cold…Blooded…

#3 NuisanceBear on 11.20.13 at 9:50 pm

First!

#4 CrackHead Conservative on 11.20.13 at 9:51 pm

The Harpers and the Fords are true crackservatives? What you think crack you have to think conservatives. When a Crackservative makes a decision that defies logic and reason and makes you think “are they on CRACK?” sometimes the answer is YES! Yes they are on CRACK!

#5 Crackservatives on 11.20.13 at 9:53 pm

Harper has lent out $600,000,000,000.00 in sub-prime/liar loans via CHMC which backstops the bad loans that banks give away to anyone since the TAXPAYER is taking ALL the risk. Crackservatives call this conservative? Are they on CRACK?

#6 Cici on 11.20.13 at 9:54 pm

No picture tonight!
But at least you posted; I was about to go into blog withdrawal.

I had premature epostulation. — Garth

#7 totalinvestor.com on 11.20.13 at 9:56 pm

Can you still make money in real estate?

How to Turn a 45% Loss into a 296% Gain in Real Estate

http://totalinvestor.blogspot.ca/2013/11/how-to-turn-45-loss-into-296-gain-in.html

#8 lolwat on 11.20.13 at 9:56 pm

what is wrong with bitcoins?

#9 Drill Baby Drill on 11.20.13 at 9:57 pm

All readers of this pathetic blog if you wish to expectorate the contents of your stomach please read the G&M article on the Vancouver couples who are trumpeting the state of RE in BC.

#10 Josef on 11.20.13 at 9:59 pm

First!!! Oh Yeah BABY!!! Where’s the picture Garth? Still posing, and going to post one of yourself tonight?

#11 Spectacle on 11.20.13 at 10:02 pm

Thank you Garth

Great series of blog articles last few weeks , among many. But you know that.

I’m going to hire you to sort out any details proactively in my family.

Having been involved within the insurance industry, I would also stress how important the life component insurance policies are to business partnerships, even between spouses! The CRA will want their cut, and Now! It can be very important, like inheritance protection.

I am appreciating the gravity ( levity? ) of comments here, and altering my own business plan/strategy now, so I have a future. In the off chance things go wonky…..

Regards to all tonight

#12 Suede on 11.20.13 at 10:10 pm

Sounds like an excerpt from the next book ;)

Very solid, free info for the savvy and astute to forward off to their friends and family.

#13 Smoking Man on 11.20.13 at 10:11 pm

When the well runs dry ……………………..

The fundamentals in real estate are horrible, record debt, record high prices. Taxes power and water and insurance costs will go threw the roof now that Ford is sidelined and Wynn will win with who-dat.

Real estate is still selling at record levels, even in the shit months.

As I have always stated on here the HERD would rather give up testicle a boob and child before having to face the friend’s, as a low life renter, they have the same concealed distain for renters as they do expressive hate for Ford.

It’s what drives them.

The felling of elitism, proudly toting a obedience certificate, a student loan, a cube at the tax farm, these crusaders out to save the world from man made carbon would rather die than give up the 200 sqft concrete box that cost make 1/20th of what they paid.

Renting would be a Huge Rob Ford moment and embarrassing step back wards.

Those same planetary saviors are out for blood, our mayor embarrassed them. Decorum and appearance is everything them, insane behavior my the mayor brought on by mobbing must be mobbed even more.

Blinded by ideology and bike lanes on Bloor street, miss information pumped into there naive brains by teachers, Al Gore presentations these gullible truth and justice warriors just love the Libs.

Completely blinded and forgiving of:

The Health Tax
HST
Ornge
eHealth
Power Plant’s
Crazy power prices driving jobs and future prosperity away.

The libs lied on every one of those. But they did it with etiquette and smooth decorum.

Sure It’s against the law to delete public emails. They did it in broad daylight, and have yet to apologized, no camera crews on Wynn’s driveway No aerial surveillance, No leaked speculative info and hear say, no sneaky police chief in on the whole thing.

It’s a non issue.

Lie about steeling billions from all of us is absolutely forgivable when one believes the liars are intent on saving the trees and feeding the big lie;

Lying about taking drugs to save face is a high crime punishable by public mobbing, worse than jail or death.

I guess what I love about the whole thing is these young fools, stupid fools will wake up one day after the people they think are friends, empty the well in the middle of the night.

These kids will wake up one morning on the street, with their hungry kids and dogs, thirsty and with nothing to eat.

And they will still love the Libs.

It’s going to be ugly, but once you own someone’s belief system, you own them completely.

Well Done Liberal Smoking Men……Well Done.

#14 Babblemaster on 11.20.13 at 10:14 pm

Of course, as I have witnessed, some parents couldn’t care less and don’t plan anything. Or, maybe it’s just because they don’t want to face their mortality. Regardless, not planning can certainly end up causing some real hard feelings between the siblings.

#15 Cici on 11.20.13 at 10:16 pm

I had premature epostulation. — Garth

Umm, I couldn’t find that one in the dictionary…did you mean “expostulation” (which I did find in the Merriam: to disagree with something or argue against it),

Sorry, got to much time on my hands (the comments section hasn’t filled up yet) and I needed a break from the dry, dull financial stuff I am forcing myself to read these days. Anyways, thanks for posting, your blog is a lighthouse for those of us who like to learn while being entertained.

#16 Cici on 11.20.13 at 10:22 pm

Now there’s a photo…well chosen Garth ;-)

#17 Scott on 11.20.13 at 10:30 pm

I’m at the point that this is the best site on the internet, really.

Garth I have a baby on the way. Do I need a will, and more life insurance (employer has some)?

Thanks

Will, sure. Insurance, only if you get the right kind, and in moderation. — Garth

#18 RayofLight on 11.20.13 at 10:31 pm

Or you could liquidate everything , set up annuities for yourself,aggressively gift to your loved ones and in doing so manage your intended out comes, take out life insurance for your “heirs” and Die Broke.

#19 Lurker on 11.20.13 at 10:45 pm

I currently rent in the Deer Lake Burnaby BC area and all our immediate neighbours are original 50+ year residents in their 1950’s bungalows. Three are widows still living in their houses they bought new with their now deceased husbands. These women have no intention of moving until they are carried out on a stretcher. I also know of others in the same situation and I cannot name one oldie who has voluntarily sold their family home and moved until they were forced to by health reasons or death.

#20 TRT on 11.20.13 at 10:54 pm

All you need to know:

1. FED not starting taper anytime soon. Blowing hot air.

2. BoC not raising rates anytime soon. Today, Poloz said in response to a question about raising rates by the end of next year –> “Are you crazy?”

That’s all you need to know.

#21 45north on 11.20.13 at 11:00 pm

ozy is Michael Den Tandt (Postmedia) ?

ozy pointed to the study Three Cities within Toronto so did Michael Den Tandt

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/Ford+mass+appeal+should+frighten+voters+beyond+Toronto/9186116/story.html

#22 Pete on 11.20.13 at 11:14 pm

Just came across this on the Oakville, Milton & District reporting of MLS stats.

Have a look at the Oakville YTD stats as reported at October 2013 for Oakville (towards bottom of document).
http://www.omdreb.on.ca/memberstats/2013/October%202013%20Statistics.pdf

Oct 2013 YTD Sales = 2413
Oct 2012 YTD Sales = 2379
For a nice little gain 2013->2012 = 1.43%

Now look at this document reporting the same at Oct 2012.
http://www.omdreb.on.ca/memberstats/2012/October%202012%20Statistics.pdf
Oct 2012 YTD Sales = 2973
Oct 2011 YTD Sales = 2957
Gain 2011->2012 = 0.54%

Whereas really if we believe the YTD 2012 stats on the second doc we actually had a large decline 2012->2013 of 23%!

Am I missing something here?

#23 Waterloo Resident on 11.20.13 at 11:15 pm

Garth’s Quote:
“their children: After years of often useless university training, student debt, and McJobs, most young people have lousy savings and a worse attitude.”
=== Yes, that says it all : ” A WORSE ATTITUDE ”
( Welcome to the “ENTITLED GENERATION” = spoiled rotten.)

#24 Lookini on 11.20.13 at 11:16 pm

Thanks for the free advice, Garth. You put a lot into this blog and it’s greatly appreciated. I have no idea where the masses (myself included) would get estate planning advice without being in an income bracket where professional money managers do this for someone. For a fee, of course, but no doubt, tax deductible.

#25 Nemesis on 11.20.13 at 11:28 pm

Bravo!, SmokingMan…

See? You’ve just mastered the Art of the Polemic.

I told you it would get easier.

I don’t care what you say but I’m awarding three GoldStars.

Harness the Passion… then just put it on the page.

That’s all there is to it.

History will be your judge. Not us.

Just ask Herman Melville.

#26 John on 11.20.13 at 11:28 pm

Thursday, November 21, 2013 at 9 PM on CBC-TV

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game

The condo game which will air tomorrow will cause a lot of people in the RE industry a lot of anger.

#27 Ripped on 11.20.13 at 11:32 pm

#20 TRT

All you need to know:

1. FED not starting taper anytime soon. Blowing hot air.

2. BoC not raising rates anytime soon. Today, Poloz said in response to a question about raising rates by the end of next year –> “Are you crazy?”

That’s all you need to know.
———————————————————-

Sounds like any interest rate rise is very concerning to you !!

Let me guess, your one of these totally maxed out guys at these historic low interest rates

#28 mikef on 11.20.13 at 11:36 pm

AHHH!!! BOOMERS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkUsnTZEGzk

#29 Nemesis on 11.20.13 at 11:39 pm

ThematicBonusZen:

“Any man who has ten thousand dollars left when he dies is a failure.” – Errol Flynn

[NoteToGT: Of course, Errol did check out in YVR whilst shagging a 16 year old on a yacht moored in CoalHarbour.]

#30 brainsail on 11.20.13 at 11:51 pm

My 90 something year old Mother is finally making her will and is going to leave her 1958 bung in Edmonton to her son in Australia.

What will be the ACB or actual cost basis of the house be when the estate transfer is made that was bought for $18k in 1958? Will the value of the house be placed at today’s appraised amount ($500K) or the 1958 purchase price?

What will the capital gains taxes be for my brother when he sells the house? He will probably also have to pay capital gains tax in Australia which are brutal. 52% of 100% of the gain vs. Canada’s 50% of your marginal rate.

I have Googled this to death and couldn’t find a straight answer.

#31 Knickerbockers Knosty on 11.20.13 at 11:56 pm

SMan, Suede and others — A Ticket To Ride? Geronimo! (only if one’s stomach is empty of contents).

#32 HAWK on 11.21.13 at 12:04 am

I believe the concept of joint tenancy is also applicable to Real Estate i.e. any Real Estate owned as a joint tenant with a kid, spouse or anyone else, would enable the survivor to get it directly free of taxes or probate etc.

#33 Smoking Hot on 11.21.13 at 12:14 am

Funny that estate planning is the subject tonight.

My parents sold there house and put all the money into a joint bank account with me.

They trust me as I could clean there bank account, but that is not in the plan.

Doing this avoids all estate tax.

#34 Son of Ponzi on 11.21.13 at 12:15 am

Inheritance taxes, deemed disposition, capital gains etc.
No lawyer, accountant, financial adviser will make a cent off my estate.
I’ll take it all with me.

#35 Shawn on 11.21.13 at 12:16 am

RRSP and TSFA Beneficiary

This is a very good reminder. My RRSP has been with TD for 20 years or more, perhaps just before I got married. I’m not really sure if my wife is on there as beneficiary and I don’t see any way to check it online.

I don’t think my statements from TD indicate anything about a beneficiary.

In all these years of on-line investing I have never seen the topic brought up on the TD Direct Investing (formerly Waterhouse) site though they give lots of other messages and reminders.

TD has great service when you call, but they don’t proactively give service. I guess that is one of the down-sides of do-it-yourself discount brokerage.

Another interesting thing about TD Direct Investing. Even as our accounts grew past 7 figures, they have never (in 20 plus years as a customer) solicited me to the full service brokerage side. I suspect there is a Chinese wall (or a law) that prevents the full service brokers from trying to fish for clients in the discount broker pool. I have occasionally been solicited by TD and other brokers but that was based just on my address and not based on my TD account.

It’s actually very surprising that TD Bank does not use that information from TD Direct Investing to solicit me for lots of other products. Maybe I checked a non-solicitation box a couple of decades ago.

#36 Cici on 11.21.13 at 12:17 am

#17 Scott

I just read The Wealthy Barber and The Wealthy Barber Returns, by David Chilton. There is some good info on insurance and wills in those books. His general recommendation was to go for term insurance, but I highly recommend reading through the finer details regarding all the various options (i.e., convertible, renewable and cash-value plans/universal life) so that you don’t get screwed when you go shopping, and also the various different scenarios depending on personal needs and life situation (i.e. business owners and self-employed have different needs than a soon-to-be father with some work coverage, etc.) David walks you through all of that.

#37 Mrs Riverview on 11.21.13 at 12:17 am

There is no capital gains exemption for a hobby farm, maybe you know that and were just being cute.

#38 Mrs Riverview on 11.21.13 at 12:22 am

Whoops, read the sentence wrong, Garth, trying to do too many things at once, my sincere apologies! You were right, my mistake!

#39 Son of Ponzi on 11.21.13 at 12:23 am

#19 Lurker
“They would not voluntarily sell, until they were forced by health reason or death”.

#40 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 12:28 am

#175 Snowboid on 11.20.13 at 6:39 pm
#64 broadway skytrain on 11.19.13 at 11:21 pm…

You are the one who called it a ‘naked’ scanner – duh right back at you.
——————————
fair enough. – i was too lazy to type revised millimetre wave and naked is more fun to say;)

they did show me the first image and the 2 more re-tries till they were ok. (the machine apparently picks up moisture , i must be one of those moist horneys Gman is alwyas referring to!)

#41 Son of Ponzi on 11.21.13 at 12:31 am

HAM Deniers.
Don’t watch this documentary.
http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game

#42 Carpe Diem on 11.21.13 at 12:32 am

Hey Cici,

Sorry!

I think the comment on divorcing to make you rich struck a cord.

I always enjoyed your posts!

I forget the sources but I’ve seen a few times the quotation that if you want to be rich, do not get get a divorce!

Now, as for your current situation …

If you and your partner shall be together “forever” its time you do it together.

Separate financial accounts sucks! Are you committed or not? If you are Quebec, you are not. In the rest of Canada, at X months you are.

If you have been together for a while …. WTF?

I have had neighbors whom had separate accounts for 10 years and 2 kids. They thought is was a good model. Until a member kept borrowing on their personal credit line and couldn’t keep up.

And this is a 2-acre estate neighborhood.

Actually, the boomers in the neighborhood seem to very stable and financially the top 1% but the Gen-X crowd seem fucked up.

They should never have bought into a rich street like this at the price they did.

I think my neighbor’s wife is awesome. She forgave him to spending too much. If is was me or my wife finding out we were financially cheating on them … look out!

We have a goal. We are together. Some days it sucks and I give a little. Some days my wife tells me she had to buy this or that … some days it’s from Victoria’s Secret …

As long as both partners are honest … it shall work … if not … good luck!

#43 Northern Screw on 11.21.13 at 12:42 am

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-three-reasons-canada-is-in-big-trouble-2013-6

#44 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 12:43 am

#27 Ripped on 11.20.13 at 11:32 pm
#20 TRT

All you need to know:

1. FED not starting taper anytime soon. Blowing hot air.

2. BoC not raising rates anytime soon. Today, Poloz said in response to a question about raising rates by the end of next year –> “Are you crazy?”

That’s all you need to know.
———————————————————-

Sounds like any interest rate rise is very concerning to you !!

Let me guess, your one of these totally maxed out guys at these historic low interest
—————-
i agree 100% w trt, rates going NOWHERE

and …any interest rate rise is very concerning – well yes, yes it is, as GIC’s pay sweet bumpkis and the only thing maxed out is about 10 yrs of 40% savings rate. the investment house we are buying will be purchased in cash .

#45 Fortune500 on 11.21.13 at 12:45 am

Just a post to say thank you Garth. My brain feels like mush sometimes after reading Canadian MSM. It is refreshing to come here and get solid advice without the sugar coating.

#46 Carpe Diem on 11.21.13 at 12:56 am

S-Man,

Check this product out …

http://www.goqsoftware.com/

We have been using it and it ROCKS!

My wife wants me to focus on my kid’s problem and deliver a solution. I believe you can help with that!

How to I contact you?

#47 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 1:00 am

#175 Snowboid on 11.20.13 at 6:39 pm
Maybe it was all those levers and helmets that didn’t work for you!
—————————————–

speaking of slow – i didn’t get this the first cpl times I read it …super duh … door levers and bike helmets… HA, good one!

#48 Nemesis on 11.21.13 at 1:04 am

Yes. It happens, alright…

Nurture your Muse, Homme du Tabagisme… you’d be postively amazed where it might take you…

2OffTopicTopicalClipsForWritersOnly… [all others are excused but AspirantsAreEncouraged]…

InheritTheWind:
http://youtu.be/S_DQUAuNUvw

JudgementAtNuremberg:
http://youtu.be/RfOgZXIQ6fo

[NoteToRalph: Never forget… Victors write TheHistory and, “I was just getting with the program” is only a valid defense if your side wins. NoteToGT: That last was a LongWayFromKansas for Dorothy, eh what?]

#49 TRT on 11.21.13 at 1:04 am

#27 Ripped,

No, just some common sense advice. You’re too far away to be rescued.

#50 Nick_L on 11.21.13 at 1:22 am

#8 See:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/~xb/fc12/bitcoin.pdf

http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/

#51 ukee tim on 11.21.13 at 1:29 am

Thanks for this relevant info Garth, it will be the greater fool who doesn’t plan their exit strategy.
In your picture, hopefully the beer is safely in the wooden box and the remains are in the compostable cardboard box!!

#52 Bruce on 11.21.13 at 1:33 am

I live in Victoria B.C. Apparently real estate brokers are wringing their money grubbing hands waiting for the migration. Rich retirees moving to the pineapple belt will inoculate them from eco-hazards soon to infect unsuspecting others. Garth, do you think there is much merit regarding this thought?

#53 Freedom First on 11.21.13 at 2:05 am

I am not a Boomer with kids, but from what I see of the Boomers in my life, their kids have already been bleeding them dry for years, and on top of that, the Boomers kids still hate the Boomers, blame them for everything, and basically have big mouths and talk to their Boomer parents like they are the parents. No wonder everybody bitche$ about the Boomers. They have no balls. Maybe it’s the “Homer Simpson”, “Married with Children”, or the “What about Raymond” tv sitcoms. If I was a Boomer with kids, a house, and assets, I would cut everybody out, off, and show them what selfish really is. Cash in, and check out, live it up, and f em all, as everybody already hates you, let them eat cake. Stop trying to buy your kids affection. Even I can see it’s not working. Grow a set.

Like your info about the wills Garth. I would like to add something. If you leave anybody anything Boomers, leave it in a Trust fund, and dribble any remaining assets to the ingrates, oh, and make them grovel for a change. Nobody will ever run my life. Freedom First.

#54 Tony on 11.21.13 at 3:21 am

Re: #30 brainsail on 11.20.13 at 11:51 pm

There will be no tax (unless the laws change) if it’s her principle residence but that will trigger probate fees upon her death. The whole point of Garth’s post was to avoid paying probate fees.

#55 Andrew Woburn on 11.21.13 at 3:23 am

#22 Pete on 11.20.13 at 11:14 pm
Just came across this on the Oakville, Milton & District reporting of MLS stats.

Oct 2012 YTD Sales = 2379
Now look at this document reporting the same at Oct 2012.
Oct 2012 YTD Sales = 2973

===================================

2973 turns into 2379. Accountants call this transposing numbers. It happens by accident, but it is also a favourite trick of crooked accountants because you can always claim it was an accident.

#56 Spaccone on 11.21.13 at 3:28 am

#8 lolwat on 11.20.13 at 9:56 pm
what is wrong with bitcoins?

Nothing wrong with bitcoins…they’re backed by assets, resources, and taxing power over a huge workforce producing things right? [What’s the name of this blog again?]

#57 Andrew Woburn on 11.21.13 at 3:51 am

#30 brainsail on 11.20.13 at 11:51 pm

What will be the ACB or actual cost basis of the house be when the estate transfer is made that was bought for $18k in 1958?
===================================

If your mother has lived continuously in the home since 1958 and has never used it to earn rental income, there should be no taxable capital gain because of her principal residence exemption. Canada did not tax capital gains until 1972 and prior to that there was no ACB concept. If somehow your mother were subject to capital gains tax, it would only be on the gain since the prescribed valuation date at the beginning of the capital gains system. Her Australian son should receive the property with a tax cost base equal to fair market value at the date of her death. Unless the Australian system is much different from ours there should very little if any tax to pay if he sells the property immediately. If he plans to hold the property for a while he could investigate the pros and cons of holding the property through a Canadian corporation.

#58 VanLarry on 11.21.13 at 4:02 am

Does the joint account have to be husband and wife? Could it be just loosely associated individuals?

Example: Bob and Jane have a non-registered account full of stocks. There are no direct relationship except they are friends and know each other. If Bob passes, the account and all its holdings belong to Jane and she does not have to pay any probation?

And any claims of Bob’s estate cannot claim that joint account?

#59 Musty Basement Dweller on 11.21.13 at 4:09 am

Is Brad Lamb going to be on the condo game show tomorrow night? I am sure a lot of his newbie condo “investors” (slaughterees) would love to see him explain his condo investment advertisement, to see how it compares with how their investment is doing so far.

#60 Devore on 11.21.13 at 5:47 am

#22 Pete

You are not missing anything. The Oct 2012 numbers you see this year are adjusted; out of the 2975 sales reported in Oct 2012, 600 failed to actually happen so far or were found to be reported in error.

#61 Smoking Man on 11.21.13 at 7:45 am

They can’t even wait. City Taxes going up

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-budget-chief-backs-away-from-rob-fords-line-on-taxes/article15543234/      

Al Gore coming to Toronto to help Kathleen Wynne lie
about Ontario’s green energy record 

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/11/20/al-gore-coming-to-toronto-to-help-kathleen-wynne-lie-about-ontarios-green-energy-record/ 

Come on tree huggers grab your man purse and go see your hero, Al Gore by far the Greatest Smoking Man that ever lived.

PS Carpe Diem here is how you contact me.

[email protected]

#62 The real Kip on 11.21.13 at 8:04 am

“If the real estate appreciates in value before the old people kick, the capital gain’s taxable in the hands of the children in proportion to their ownership if they happen to have a house of their own.”

Garth, you already said real estate ain’t gonna appreciate, it’s gonna depreciate so the above statement is contradictory.

I said every market is local. — Garth

#63 Frustrated Kiwi on 11.21.13 at 8:21 am

#6 – Garth, that’s your best one-liner ever!
#15 Cici – I believe Garth is making a play on epistle (to write an epistle is to epostulate ;-) )

Estate planning – we had a formal (i.e., family lawyer written, wasn’t expensive) reverse mortgage type agreement with my mother – we built our share of equity (I have siblings) and she got income. Worked very well (certainly better than the bank providing it and eroding the value) except we hadn’t put enough thought up front about who was responsible for large maintenance items.

#64 Pete on 11.21.13 at 8:51 am

#22 Pete

You are not missing anything. The Oct 2012 numbers you see this year are adjusted; out of the 2975 sales reported in Oct 2012, 600 failed to actually happen so far or were found to be reported in error.

So the problem with this logic is either
1. There was a large unreported “crash” in number of home sales from Oct 2011-> Oct 2012.
OR
2. Oct 2013 numbers are also likely to be adjusted downwards by the time they next appear in 2014, so there is a large unreported “crash” in the Oct 2012->Oct 2013 numbers.

Either way there has been a large decline, which are completely sidestepped by these stats!!

Exactly what this blog has been saying for the past year. Scarier still, CREA uses tainted data like this to aggregate its national numbers. — Garth

#65 We don't need Matt Lauer telling 416 what to do on 11.21.13 at 8:51 am

Ford is anti union, in TO that means he has to fight the Freemasons. When they stage psyops like sandy hook and 911 etc. they need script readers in positions of power, so that eliminates Rob. Let’s recap, it’s Rob vs. global MSM, politicians, unions and Freemasons (cops and firemen). {insert your own joke here}

#66 Bob Copeland on 11.21.13 at 8:52 am

If you have a balanced portfolio of ETF’s should you use a trailing stop loss to increase your returns? Maybe 8-10%?

If you know how to rebalance, stop losses are not required. — Garth

#67 torontorocks on 11.21.13 at 8:59 am

Thank you Garth (as you know, this was something that I dealt with personally and again thank you for your counsel) for this timely posting and if I can provide any bit of advice to anyone who has an elderly parent or who’s parent’s have not designated a surviving spouse a beneficiary, get them on it. Its simply the later stage phase of life planning – estate planning. It will save a world of trouble later and something that’s unfortunately looked over OR, even better, NOT counselled properly by those fairies that work in the branches, particularly at the Scotiabank in Yorkdale.

That said, one thing banks don’t like you to know that you can sometimes avoid probate by indemnifying the bank against any loss and this is something that should be explored with your institution.

#68 jess on 11.21.13 at 9:00 am

cheap rates on loan seems to make one’s eyes go blind?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/leaving-aside-reverend-flowers-drug-abuse–the-truly-indefensible-thing-was-how-little-this-coop-bank-chairman-knew-about-finance-8945554.html

#69 TurnerNation on 11.21.13 at 9:00 am

Parents, don’t let your kids become Blog Dogs.

With CSIS’s new billion dollar Spy Palace underway there’s lots of ops for staffers doing spying on fellow Kanadians. Ask what you can do for the Glorious Leader and Party. Particularly, exists an urgent need for Honey Pots.

We must still catch Ford with his chants down.(Subways subways subways!)

#70 Castaway on 11.21.13 at 9:18 am

#17 Scott.

When you research life insurance be sure it is for you and your spouse. Not for your soon to arrive son/daughter. That is the biggest scam going. Life insurance salesmen that play on your emotions and convince you to buy insurance for your child. Total rip off. Congrats on upcoming arrival.

#71 economictsunami on 11.21.13 at 9:24 am

If extraordinary monetary policy (practiced to varying degrees by many CBs) is solely responsible for 5 years of this sputtering global economy, (after the fiscal stimulus ran out & the commodity super cycle narrative ran dry) why would you repeal any of it?

Oh, that’s right, because the artificially skewed economic data told you to.

As The Fed searches for Solutions, Its Power Wanes…

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/20/as-fed-searches-for-solutions-its-power-wanes/

We are misdiagnosing our new global economic condition and applying the same old medicine; just larger doses…

#72 Musty Basement Dweller on 11.21.13 at 10:00 am

Wow, this BMO official looking dude tells Rob Carrick in the video that we should be lucky to see ANY house price increases over the next 5-10 years.

He’s right, of course, it’s just that most of them don’t usually say that to the general house horny public. I wonder if the Real estate agent cartel and CMHC “economists” think, and if they are predicting the same thing now? Sure makes a difference if you are looking at an “investment” strategy with your money.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/lets-talk-investing/20130906theglobeandmailctmdougporter2risingmortgagerates720p3000kbpsmp4/article15074472/

#73 James on 11.21.13 at 10:01 am

The BoC disagrees with OECD about interest rates. Most likely he won’t be raising it for the duration of his term. RE can only go higher.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/canadian-dollar-lower-boc-governor-disputes-hike-rates-134420648–finance.html?.tsrc=yahoo

Rates have been at historic lows for four years and real estate’s ascent is over. Rates could go to zero and it would make little difference. All the risk is on the downside. — Garth

#74 Musty Basement Dweller on 11.21.13 at 10:14 am

Garth, with the clearly pending nuclear activities in the Greater Toronto condo market, it looks like the Greater Toronto Condo owners are going to need a spokesperson and defender. I wouldn’t be surprised if your dance card starts to fill up very soon with requests for that if it hasn’t already. Now that the MSM is getting interested it should be quite a show over the next year or two. It looks like the Condo fiasco show on the CBC tonight will be signing straight from your song sheeet.

#75 Toronto_CA on 11.21.13 at 10:18 am

“tracy
Downtown TO is going to be like Manhatan NY.” (sic)

A commenter on the CBC “The Condo Game” documentary page.

It is people like this that make me want to spork my eyes out.

Should be interesting, hope all the Blog Dogs will watch it tonight (or online tomorrow).

#76 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 10:23 am

The war’s over, Nemesis, and few noticed it was even being fought. Remember when Nortel et al were accused of helping the “Great Firewall of China” surveillance apparatus? How quaint that seems now. Between Transunion, Facebook, AT&T, Nate Silver, your digital cable box, ISP and ancestry.com, there’s a guy in the basement of Fort Meade who can make a good prediction at what you’re going to have for breakfast the day after tomorrow. They know everything about you except whether you own a gun.

A few years back, I witnessed a perfect metaphor for how today’s youth choose to dissent, and how effective it is. I was strolling past the US embassy in Buenos Aires, and a young man went up to the gate, pushed the button on the intercom, and started with “Hay una polemica…” which he then proceeded to deliver. Here at the centre, we write polite messages in chalk to our failed political leaders. But who can blame us, as we’ve learned that exercising our right to peaceful assembly can lead to being beaten by nameless, faceless riot police and being left to marinate in our own urine for 24 hours, then being released without charge.

Back in the old days, the cure for 50% youth unemployment was boot leather and carbines. No longer, it seems.

You seem to have caught me on a day of particular dystopianism… Maybe Richard Widmark was the trigger. The future isn’t a boot stomping on a face forever, it’s a gangster capitalist pushing an old lady down the stairs. Love that laugh, though. Tommy Udo for president!

That was uplifting. — Garth

#77 wanting-waiting on 11.21.13 at 10:45 am

Garth, which right insurance in moderation? Give us a hint, pleasssssse.

Term, max $250K. Non-smoker, thirty years old, $17 a month. — Garth

#78 Stephen Harper on 11.21.13 at 10:51 am

Garth,
Nice post but you are still fired.
Sincerely,
Steven Harper

#79 TorontoBull on 11.21.13 at 11:09 am

@61
the city of toronto has the lowest residential taxes in the GTA. The proposed tax increase is including the scarborough subway levy, as your idol could not find any private money for it (I know, I know – many of his supporters were in drunken stupor to remember that it was a key campaign promise). Just a reminder that the bufoon voted AGAINST his own budget last time forcing Mike Del Grande ( a true conservative, not a populist to resign) and hence alienating a key political supporter. And lastly, council has made a decision (during Miller, but has been supported by the right) to shift the tax burden from businesses to residents as the current status quo disproportionately punished businesses and hinders the attractivess of the City from an investment standpoint.
open your eyes SM!

#80 Mike on 11.21.13 at 11:11 am

#64 Pete on 11.21.13 at 8:51 am
#22 Pete

You are not missing anything. The Oct 2012 numbers you see this year are adjusted; out of the 2975 sales reported in Oct 2012, 600 failed to actually happen so far or were found to be reported in error.

So the problem with this logic is either
1. There was a large unreported “crash” in number of home sales from Oct 2011-> Oct 2012.
OR
2. Oct 2013 numbers are also likely to be adjusted downwards by the time they next appear in 2014, so there is a large unreported “crash” in the Oct 2012->Oct 2013 numbers.

Either way there has been a large decline, which are completely sidestepped by these stats!!

Exactly what this blog has been saying for the past year. Scarier still, CREA uses tainted data like this to aggregate its national numbers. — Garth
—————————————————-

Can’t “revised numbers” be released when they figure out how many deals actually did go through? Isn’t that what is done with GDP numbers? It is stupid that sales numbers are always skewed to the upside by these stats. It kind of pisses me off.

#81 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 11:14 am

Gravy Train Wreck

#82 Pete on 11.21.13 at 11:29 am

#22 Pete

You are not missing anything. The Oct 2012 numbers you see this year are adjusted; out of the 2975 sales reported in Oct 2012, 600 failed to actually happen so far or were found to be reported in error.

So the problem with this logic is either
1. There was a large unreported “crash” in number of home sales from Oct 2011-> Oct 2012.
OR
2. Oct 2013 numbers are also likely to be adjusted downwards by the time they next appear in 2014, so there is a large unreported “crash” in the Oct 2012->Oct 2013 numbers.

Either way there has been a large decline, which are completely sidestepped by these stats!!

Exactly what this blog has been saying for the past year. Scarier still, CREA uses tainted data like this to aggregate its national numbers. — Garth

Yes, I have been following the discussion of the massaging of stats, but I envisaged a few percentage points here or there – to tun an approx 20% decline into a reported gain of 2% is beyond belief! This is not an academic exercise for me, I am trying to make a RE purchase decision in the Oakville market.

Think I am going to write to the Oakville / Milton Board and demand an explanation…

#83 Musty Basement Dweller on 11.21.13 at 11:29 am

#52 Bruce on 11.21.13 at 1:33 am
I live in Victoria B.C. Apparently real estate brokers are wringing their money grubbing hands waiting for the migration. Rich retirees moving to the pineapple belt will inoculate them from eco-hazards soon to infect unsuspecting others. Garth, do you think there is much merit regarding this thought?
=============================
Hi there, I’ve heard this thinking a lot, mostly from people who live in Victoria, arguably the most self absorbed city in Canada.

I think the problem with the thought that everyone wants to come to Victoria when they retire is that it is extremely expensive there. Plus it’s actually not that banana there, it’s freezing for most months of the year. If you want predominantly good old white folks and boring british culture, yeah it’s got that.

As this pathetic blog points out ad nauseum, the wave of retirees coming up isn’t exactly flush with cash to burn, even before they take care of their broke kids. Plus, there is already a crap load of old people in Victoria and they won’t last forever, so think about the supply and demand thing for housing.

Sorry if I’m trashing Victoria but those are my honest thoughts. It’s nice but not the mecca that most Victorians think it is.

#84 heineken on 11.21.13 at 11:40 am

i love your point of view smoking man! agree with most of it especially “the lack of school” system.

“Give me a child for the first 5 years of his life and he will be mine forever.”
— Vladimir Lenin

they have been after rob ford for years. even though everyone knows that the media is controlled, we act as though “free speech” is alive and well. they wanted to hang rob ford a few years back because he refused to participate, or have any association with the gay pride parade. his remark “i spend the weekend with his family” was shown to be distastefull and the media wanted to hang him. well i love him and so do a lot of individuals who promote a normal heterosexual lifestyle….. i don’t have the right judge these gays, but God will.
next election he will have a record number of voters. he will become a force du jour.

we all know that real estate is in a bubble.
we all know is going to end badly for the individual who goes in debt at 3.5%, and when its renewal time his mortgage renews with values that are >5% . this is not a revelation. guess what- no one knows when the collapse takes place! especially not garth turner. the individual who took on “risk” a few years ago is making a ton of money if he invested in toronto. lets face it- everyone is jealous! they are pissed off because it wasn’t them. they knew about but didn’t act. the propaganda worked. now you all want him to collaspe in front of you with huge tears rolling from his eyes. meanwhile in reality he puts his smart key into the ignition of his new 911 twin turbo and either listens to the engine or listens to his new attractive girlfriend. with money, happy choices occur.
reminds me of neil diamonds “forever in blue jean” lyrics:Money talks
But it don’t sing and dance
And it don’t walk
And long as I can have you here with me
I’d much rather be
Forever in blue jeans
Brilliant!!

im trying to find out who really killed JFK. we all know it was the CIA but who was behind the scenes giving the orders. WHOEVER changed the scheduled car route on the day of (it was originally set to proceed straight) to right and then left is canary in the coal mine. additionally who gave the order to change the bullet hole in the windshield in detroit immediately once jfk was shot? these 2 actions will tell everything.

#85 Daisy Mae on 11.21.13 at 11:42 am

#34 Son of Ponzi: “I’ll take it all with me.”

**************

That’s what my dad used to say: “If I can’t take it with me, I’m not going!”

#86 recharts on 11.21.13 at 11:43 am

Can’t “revised numbers” be released when they figure out how many deals actually did go through? Isn’t that what is done with GDP numbers? It is stupid that sales numbers are always skewed to the upside by these stats. It kind of pisses me off.
What is stupid is that the public is not educated to discount the CREA/TREB numbers with 2%.
CREA & TREB should be forced by law to warn the reader that there is a -%2 error margin or whatever the monthly average error margin is

#87 Pete on 11.21.13 at 11:47 am

#80 Mike
Can’t “revised numbers” be released when they figure out how many deals actually did go through? Isn’t that what is done with GDP numbers? It is stupid that sales numbers are always skewed to the upside by these stats. It kind of pisses me off.
—————-
Actually it seems even worse than that – it sure looks like every month there is a very neat comparison of apples to oranges, thus avoiding ever having to report a decline in the market! Unbelievable…

#88 Herb on 11.21.13 at 11:52 am

Harper has introduced a new concept into Canadian politics: implausible denial.

#89 Herb on 11.21.13 at 11:54 am

#13 Smoking Man,

what’s your problem, SM? Lie, cheat, steal is right out of your playbook. Why would you object to anyone, even a government, doing it?

#90 wallflower on 11.21.13 at 11:54 am

back to freaky numbers reporting, an example I pulled off realtor.ca recently
N2675916
7140 Concession 4 Rd
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P1R1
Taxes $5,773.94/2013
Orig Price: $589,900
List: $499,900
Sold: $490,000 98% List

#91 Penny Henny on 11.21.13 at 11:56 am

A Question for those who know more than I.
Lets say the US economy does continue it’s slow and steady recovery, and lets say they do start and eventually end tapering (no more QE). Now that they stopped tapering they would then proceed to normalize rates.
My question is can they do all this and normalize rates before the next recession? If not, their only ammo against recession is to start QE again.

The Fed has made it clear that tapering and the elimination of stimulus will occur gradulally, and yet the discount rate will not rise for about two years, and then only if economic activity allows it. This is an orderly path, which should have predictable results. Certainly nothing to fear. — Garth

#92 Smoking Man on 11.21.13 at 12:00 pm

#79 TorontoBull on 11.21.13 at 11:09 am

My eyes are wide open and all I see is firms leaving one after another this pathetic province because of the ridiculous price of hydro.

The stupid green energy agenda sold your idiots by bigger idiots.

Might I suggest a quick Google of Climate Depot and educate yourself.

Open your eyes…

#93 Penny Henny on 11.21.13 at 12:03 pm

What does WYNNE stand for?

W-wish
Y-you’ll
N-never
N-need
E-electricity

love the headline
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/11/20/al-gore-coming-to-toronto-to-help-kathleen-wynne-lie-about-ontarios-green-energy-record/

#94 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 11.21.13 at 12:09 pm

#13 Smoking Man on 11.20.13 at 10:11 pm
When the well runs dry ……………………..

The fundamentals in real estate are horrible, record debt, record high prices. Taxes power and water and insurance costs will go threw the roof now that Ford is sidelined and Wynn will win with who-dat.

Was this actually Smoking Man? What happened spell checker accidentally on, Grammer still sucked but not as many spelling mistakes. The paragraphs had connecting context and it was actually legible. What happened Smoking Man you run out of wine?

#95 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 12:28 pm

#76 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 10:23 am
The war’s over..

————————–
i would contend that life is awesome, beautiful, fun, fascinating and downright too short. its easy to fool the spy in the basement, but he cares not about you or me. you are obv way smarter than average – that makes it easier to get what u want. (freedom)

“owleways look aan the briiight side hove life”

—————————————————

join or donate today.
“DOORKNOB LIBERATION ARMY”

#96 James on 11.21.13 at 12:29 pm

Rates have been at historic lows for four years and real estate’s ascent is over. Rates could go to zero and it would make little difference. All the risk is on the downside. — Garth

Perhaps but it hasn’t been the case so far (4 years and counting). And even if there is a correction it is mostly concentrated in the condo market. So to those holding an SFH, especially in the downtown core of Toronto, I think it’s pretty safe. People will buy what is affordable which is 600K-900K segment. Income will catch up eventually in the long run as the economy continues to grow and recover. And when you can lock in 10yr mortgage at a still very low rate, I see limited downside risk.

#97 Daisy Mae on 11.21.13 at 12:32 pm

“While government policy has been successful in moderating increases in mortgage debt, home prices continue to rise,” it says, although they are now rising at a slower pace…”

*********************

What the media should be saying: “After a number of disasterous changes to amortization rates resulting in the creation of a massive housing bubble, new government policy has been successful….blah, blah.”

#98 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 12:34 pm

HCWTT
run out of wine?

——-
bingo

would somebody please bring smoking man a strong cocktail or a big fatty , his best material comes when properly ‘inspired’

#99 TorontoBull on 11.21.13 at 12:36 pm

@92
can’t argue on the hydro costs, but you are changing the topic…

#100 Mark on 11.21.13 at 12:39 pm

Garth for Mayor of Toronto =)

In your dreams. — Garth

#101 pt-bob on 11.21.13 at 12:49 pm

Japan creating currency deflation to mainain exports
http://asiaconf.com/2013/11/21/deflation-is-crushing-qe/

#102 Canadian Watchdog on 11.21.13 at 12:51 pm

The Fed has made it clear that tapering and the elimination of stimulus will occur gradulally, and yet the discount rate will not rise for about two years, and then only if economic activity allows it. This is an orderly path, which should have predictable results. Certainly nothing to fear. — Garth

An orderly path for who? Disengaging in dollar devaluation or even devaluing at a slower pace then other central banks would signal that the Fed is willing to allow the USD to rise. In effect, this would attract more capital to US dollars and destabilize other currencies. Is the Fed willing to run the risk of an exogenous shock (like 1997 AFC) that it can't control? NO.

Everything must be looked at from a global standpoint and in local currency terms. Stability can never exist on floating exchange rates.

India Non-Performing Assets: chart

China Non-Performing Loans: chart

Gold Standard and Global Crises: chart

Now if you're the Fed who has the privilege and responsibility of managing the world's reserve currency, are you going to stabilize prices for 350 million westerns and allow the rest of the world to go to hell? NO.

I think they understand this. But maybe you should call just to ensure: 202-452-2955. — Garth

#103 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 12:52 pm

all that growth is taxable to an heir (from the hair). Lots of people make the mistake of leaving a cottage to all their kids, who then end up in a bloody war over use and taxation.
————————————
we have one child and one cottage which has already appreciated considerably but its only worth around 250k now. i expect in 30 yrs it will be many times more. we want her to keep it and she does too (so far). should i sell/give it to her now while it’s still ‘cheap'(shes 12) or wait ?

If you give it to her now be prepared to pay the capital gains tax. — Garth

#104 kommykim on 11.21.13 at 12:54 pm

RE: #84 heineken on 11.21.13 at 11:40 am
well i love him and so do a lot of individuals who promote a normal heterosexual lifestyle….. i don’t have the right judge these gays, but God will.
next election he will have a record number of voters. he will become a force du jour.

Since you believe in an invisible man in the sky, I guess it’s not much more of a stretch to believe that Rob Ford will be re-elected.

#105 Godth on 11.21.13 at 12:57 pm

Smoking Man’s foil?
http://www.realfarmacy.com/montana-mountain-man-arrested-for-trying-to-feed-himself-leaves-judge-speechless/

#106 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 1:10 pm

#30 brainsail on 11.20.13 at 11:51 pm
My 90 something year old Mother is finally making her will and is going to leave her 1958 bung in Edmonton to her son in Australia.
————————-
this is what i would do…

sell the bung to whomever will rent back for 10years (cashflow pos , of course).
tax free for mom.

a few times a month mail a shoebox of 20’s to australia – problem solved :)

#107 Cici on 11.21.13 at 1:13 pm

#42 Carpe Diem,

Hey, no prob – I understand that may have struck a cord.

Thanks for the advice, and to answer you questions: we’ve been together for three years, are not married (but are considered common-law under Quebec law), have a joint account for groceries and household expenses (pay all of our utilities, home and car insurance, groceries and major household expenses like furniture or dishwashers from this account). The rest is separate, which is working out well for us for now.
We may close to the same salary, only I have less expendable monthly income than he does at this time because I’m accelerating my student loan payments (should be rid of the loan for ever in about three months) and my car payments (his car’s paid off, and he had less student loans, and therefore smaller payments than me).
So, until all of the debt is paid off on both sides, I don’t feel a need to merge all of our expenses.
As for property, we are part of that fucked-up Gen-X crowd, but haven’t yet taken the home-buying plunge. Again, we want to get rid of our debts first and save up as much possible for a down payment, but only if prices come back to earth. For now we are renting, and quite happy about it because ownership does not look appealing at the moment (dated, badly decorated bungalows going for an average of between $350,000 and $450,000, and most in need of major renovations and updates). It sucks to be a Gen-Xer, LOL!

#108 NoName on 11.21.13 at 1:20 pm

#86 recharts on 11.21.13 at 11:43 am

http://goo.gl/MW9DxO

…about margin of error check alowed margin of error on food labes…

#109 Waterloo Resident on 11.21.13 at 1:21 pm

Here’s why CHINA’s economy is set for a crash (and with Canada so dependent upon China for exports, why Canada’s economy will probably also crash):

Quote: “The carry trade drove the property bubble in Southeast Asia before 1997. The rising U.S. interest rate triggered its collapse. China is under the influence of the same force but on a much larger scale. The Fed’s massive quantitative easing has driven up China’s money supply, partly through the carry trade. If the Fed unwinds the QE, China’s bubble will burst.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-hard-landing-is-likely-andy-xie-2013-11-19?dist=beforebell

#110 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 1:38 pm

#96 James — “And even if there is a correction it is mostly concentrated in the condo market. So to those holding an SFH, especially in the downtown core of Toronto, I think it’s pretty safe. People will buy what is affordable which is 600K-900K segment. Income will catch up eventually in the long run as the economy continues to grow and recover.”

These are the fairy tales that real estate agents tell their children at night. The fact is that downpayments for SFH comes from the resale of condos. And a lot of the people living in those SFH (and condos) are making their money building, selling and financing those homes. Just as America’s problems turned out not to be contained to subprime, ours won’t be contained to condos.

And I don’t know what makes you think wages are going to go up. From 2007 to 2011, Ontario median household income went up 1.45% per year. Gains are going to those at the top and shareholders, not to wages. Our Harper government holds down low end wages at the double double shop, the nursing home and in the nursery by importing Filipinas 10,000 at a time, and corporations are busily outsourcing anything and everything that can be done at the other end of a fiber optic cable.

#111 X on 11.21.13 at 1:42 pm

22 Pete – Amazing by those numbers that it would appear that 1 in every 6 deals did not get closed.

I personally don’t believe either number….

All F needs to do is regulate the propoganda that the RE boards spit out and stop playing with lending rules. RE will fall on its own when they cannot herd anymore sheep.

#112 Smoking Man on 11.21.13 at 1:49 pm

#89 Herb on 11.21.13 at 11:54 am#13 Smoking Man,what’s your problem, SM? Lie, cheat, steal is right out of your playbook. Why would you object to anyone, even a government, doing it?
………………..

When I sit accros my prey and make a deal, they have a choice, accept, reject.

When the government does it, I have no choice, it’s law in forced by the threat of violence via cops and jail and fines.

Example auto insurance…..

We pay ten times the rate of some one in Florida. They can got to court and put in claim for millions.

We are caped, pay ten times more, and if we opt out, fines and jail time.

See the difference old buddy…

#113 Network Admin on 11.21.13 at 1:53 pm

#107 Cici

… (dated, badly decorated bungalows going for an average of between $350,000 and $450,000, and most in need of major renovations and updates) …

That’s crazy cheap!!

#114 Som of Ponzi on 11.21.13 at 1:57 pm

Slept like a baby again last night.
Must be the money under the mattress.
Why put your money anywhere else?

#115 Smoking Man on 11.21.13 at 1:57 pm

#84 heineken on 11.21.13 at 11:40 am

It was LBJ who put the hit on and killed Kennedy.

As far as gays, I don’t have a problem with then. Acctuly fun to be around.

But straight dudes who walk around with man purses read the Toronto Star, and talk girlish.

The horror…….

#116 commonsense on 11.21.13 at 2:12 pm

#8 said……” lolwat on 11.20.13 at 9:56 pm what is wrong with bitcoins?”

-obviously the BitCoin has zero instrinsic value and might as well be a Marshall Island seashell necklace in that regard. Arguably paper currency has no value except that it is managed by corrupt politicians to sustain a ponzi economy before they die.

BTW…..the 16 year old Errol Flynn died on was his wife…..it wasn’t unusual for 16 year old girls to be married in that generation…ask your grammie. Farm girls of the 20’sand 30’s generation often had many children…most died….as did many young mothers due to barbaric conditions in Canadian hospitals at the time.

#117 Mister Obvious on 11.21.13 at 2:26 pm

#83 Musty Basement Dweller

Victoria is a good ‘downshift’ for retired people who are already functioning satisfactorily in Vancouver.

You can move to Victoria and mostly keep the climate, surroundings and lifestyle you are used to while pocketing a savings of about 20% on the cost of accommodation whether it be rental or purchase.

For people retiring in other parts of Canada, its maybe not such a great move.

#118 Snowboid on 11.21.13 at 2:44 pm

#47 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 1:00 am…

I do envy you – I always wanted to learn to fly, and tried air cadets but ended up doing stints as an army reservist (KOCR) and RCMP.

Tons of air travel, but never as the pilot.

#119 Son of Ponzi on 11.21.13 at 2:50 pm

Free fares on BC ferries for Seniors eliminated.
R.I.P. Retirement RE in Victoria and Sunshine Coast.

#120 happity on 11.21.13 at 2:55 pm

Walmart, sears, target, money tree, cat, etc have all turned in crappy numbers.

So keep on piling into the stock market, especially when it is at all time highs.

In terms of the numbers that matter – P/E ratios – the equity market is nowhere near its high. A normal correction is overdue, but certainly nothing to panic about. — Garth

#121 not 1st on 11.21.13 at 2:56 pm

Garth, I think you are fighting a losing battle…

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/11/21/boc-chief-stephen-poloz-says-canadian-housing-market-not-a-bubble-predicts-soft-landing/

Like you expected him to say otherwise? That his policies aren’t working? — Garth

#122 Snowboid on 11.21.13 at 2:56 pm

#83 Musty Basement Dweller on 11.21.13 at 11:29 am…

I have to agree, while Victoria was a pretty good place to work, retiring there would be less than enjoyable.

As luck would have it we sold pretty close to the peak, and with the great Professors’ wisdom now enjoy a high-end condo (renting) to enjoy Okanagan summers and owning a nice SFH in AZ to spend the winters.

Although we know our liquid investments could do better, they still pay almost all the rent.

Next few days could be tense in the Valley of the Sun, however, big rain is forecast for tonight and tomorrow – at least the cactus will be happy!

#123 It aint over till the fat man sings on 11.21.13 at 2:58 pm

#115 Smoking Man on 11.21.13 at 1:57 pm

#84 heineken on 11.21.13 at 11:40 am

It was LBJ who put the hit on and killed Kennedy.

As far as gays, I don’t have a problem with then. Acctuly fun to be around.

But straight dudes who walk around with man purses read the Toronto Star, and talk girlish.

The horror…….

—–

Have you seen Bill Blair’s choice for new mayor of Toronto?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enza_Anderson

#124 Buy? Curious? on 11.21.13 at 3:03 pm

Garth, I leave this blog for a few days and all of sudden the conspiracy nuts come out of the woodwork like first year university students home for the holidays with their new “roommates”! Damn.

Let’s not get too carried away, Fruitcakes. This scenario is and has been managed from a long time ago. You’re late to the party like a loser who found a discarded invitation to a club. People with money are diversifying their assets while dinkheads having been buying houses, gold and bitcoins. You, are, screwed! And Garth isn’t going to save you. He lives in Nova Scotia! It isn’t a log cabin in the bush, but it’s close. Cash out now! Before the Panic begins!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLjSUIxLKc

#125 heineken on 11.21.13 at 3:14 pm

RE #104 kommykim on 11.21.13 at 12:54 pm
Thank you for acknowledging my allegiance to the invisible man in the sky. I would’ve been disappointed to know that it hadn’t gone unnoticed.

Here’s one for all you ford haters. It’s hilarious.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d2_1384885652

Here’s another interesting one from Ireland.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d2_1384885652

#126 recharts on 11.21.13 at 3:24 pm

“It is a free country, deal with it! -Garth”

#110 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 1:38 pm
#96 James — “And even if there is a correction it is mostly concentrated in the condo market. So to those holding an SFH, especially in the downtown core of Toronto, I think it’s pretty safe. People will buy what is affordable which is 600K-900K segment. Income will catch up eventually in the long run as the economy continues to grow and recover.”

These are the fairy tales that real estate agents tell their children at night. The fact is that downpayments for SFH comes from the resale of condos. And a lot of the people living in those SFH (and condos) are making their money building, selling and financing those homes. Just as America’s problems turned out not to be contained to subprime, ours won’t be contained to condos.

And I don’t know what makes you think wages are going to go up. From 2007 to 2011, Ontario median household income went up 1.45% per year. Gains are going to those at the top and shareholders, not to wages. Our Harper government holds down low end wages at the double double shop, the nursing home and in the nursery by importing Filipinas 10,000 at a time, and corporations are busily outsourcing anything and everything that can be done at the other end of a fiber optic cable.

More xenophobic trash on this blog. — Garth

#127 Iconoclast on 11.21.13 at 3:31 pm

#116 commonsense

The previous reference piqued my interest.

Nope, she was not his wife. Though she said later that he had proposed, Flynn’s legal wife apparently wasn’t keen on it.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/oscars/2013/09/errol-flynn-toronto-film-festival

Apparently the expression “in like Flynn” refers to his ability to get into a ladies undies…. One learns something every day.

#128 Vamanos Pest on 11.21.13 at 3:49 pm

#96 James

600-900k is affordable? In a country where median household income is ~72k? Do you care to back-up this ridiculous claim?

#129 Big Brother on 11.21.13 at 3:57 pm

Smoking Man has been found!!!!
Watch it Smoky MKULTRA knows who you are.

Here’s the interview with him proclaiming his love of Rob Ford.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhhpz9pKyj8#t=50

#130 James on 11.21.13 at 3:58 pm

#110 Ralph Cramdown

The point is nobody knows how much and when RE will correct. What difference does it make if it drops 5-20% if its your primary residence. If past history is any indication, prices recovers on average in 5-8 years (see 1990 Canada RE Crash, 2008 US RE Crash).

#131 Shawn on 11.21.13 at 4:17 pm

THE CARRY TRADE – DEFINITION

Waterloo Resident at 109 warns with a quote:

Quote: “The carry trade drove the property bubble in Southeast Asia before 1997. The rising U.S. interest rate triggered its collapse. China is under the influence of the same force but on a much larger scale. The Fed’s massive quantitative easing has driven up China’s money supply, partly through the carry trade. If the Fed unwinds the QE, China’s bubble will burst.”

************************************

Okay so lets look up the definition of Carry Trade. I found this one:

Definition of carry trade.

A carry trade is a strategy in which an investor borrows money at a low interest rate in order to invest in an asset that is likely to provide a higher return. This strategy is very common in the foreign exchange market.

*********************

So basically banks are massive carry trade businesses they take in short-term deposits at zero percent and lend out at higher rates, often locked in. They hedge some of this but in general they play the carry trade.

So, anyone can play the carry trade, just borrow on a line of credit and invest in bank preferred shares. The risk is you can get killed if rates turn against you.

Carry Trade funds lots of stuff, until it doesn’t.

The Asset Backed Commercail paper fiasco in 2007 was a carry trade gone bad.

Savings and loan crisis in the U.S was a carry trade gone bad.

Until 2008 many corporations did not bother with cash on the balance sheet but instead used lines of credit. Then the lines of credit were closed in the financial crisis. Carry trade gone bad.

#132 R1200C on 11.21.13 at 4:26 pm

I thought the cash back mortgages were being pulled out? https://www.cibc.com/ca/mortgages/wealth-builder.html?WT.mc_id=Int-SPOT-WBMortgage-E

#133 Scott on 11.21.13 at 4:27 pm

Cici and Castaway – thanks for the replies and tips.

#134 James on 11.21.13 at 4:38 pm

#128 Vamanos Pest

Not my fault if you can’t buy a house at 4-6x income. Maybe you fall in the rent category and there is nothing wrong with that. Invest your cash accordingly.

#135 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 4:48 pm

#118 Snowboid on 11.21.13 at 2:44 pm
#47 broadway skytrain on 11.21.13 at 1:00 am…

I do envy you – I always wanted to learn to fly, ——————————-
premature submitulation…

the only thing one flies in the beginning in cdn forces is shoepolish, rifle, yes sirs and a years+ in Que learning french – i didn’t stay past a few months. ergo – i’ve always wanted to fly too!

pilots are pre-qual’d before sign up/basic training so you go in with that as your job classification.

A floatplane in BC is the thing to fly. i’m saving up for one ;)

#136 Suede on 11.21.13 at 4:57 pm

#120 Happity

Rule #1 in a bull market: bad news is not bad enough.

Rule #1 in a bear market: good news is not good enough.

#137 Son of Ponzi on 11.21.13 at 5:44 pm

Poloz on Vancouver housing: “it’s been expensive all my life”.
How old is this guy?
10 years?

#138 Choices on 11.21.13 at 5:48 pm

#112 Smoking Man on 11.21.13 at 1:49 pm

When I sit accros my prey and make a deal, they have a choice, accept, reject.

When the government does it, I have no choice, it’s law in forced by the threat of violence via cops and jail and fines.

Example auto insurance…..

……………………………………..

You do have a choice… don’t drive.

#139 Shawn on 11.21.13 at 6:09 pm

BUYING A HOUSE IS A CARRY TRADE

A carry trade is a strategy in which an investor borrows money at a low interest rate in order to invest in an asset that is likely to provide a higher return.

Homeowners borrow at low CMHC gurateed rates and lock in usually a maximum of 5 years on the interest rate.

Today’s low rates allow a person to “carry” a large mortage.

The return in the imputed rent value (A HUGE part of the return that is almost always forgotten on this site) plus any capital gain.

The total carrying cost is the interest paid plus (as often pointed out on this site) the foregone return on the down payment.

This carry trade can go bad if there are caital losses instead of gains (house price falls) and or if interest rates are higher at renewal.

#140 Bill on 11.21.13 at 6:25 pm

Re TFSA should you name your spouse as “successor holder” rather than beneficiary to allow free tranfser to her TFSA?

Same thing. — Garth

#141 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 6:28 pm

Garth, I find your xenophobia accusations tiresome. No doubt some here suffer from it, but I’d like to think I have a more nuanced view of optimal immigration policy. When I read about skilled professionals we import who are reduced to driving cab because our self-regulatory organizations refuse to recognize their credentials, I weep for the fraud being committed in my name. When I read about low-skill and unskilled labour being imported to fill jobs at Timmy’s and to look after the kids while Boris trades bonds and Natasha goes shopping, or to look after aunt Lizzie at the long term care home, while our youth unemployment remains at double digits and tuition debt hits new highs, I feel for our youth. That’s the deal. I live in Boris and Natasha’s neighbourhood, I visit aunt Mary on weekends, and I’ve seen a suburban political nomination meeting, so I don’t need you to pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

So close the door and see how many of your storied youth aspire to drive cabs, work at Tim’s or change diapers. Immigration is not the problem. It is our entitled attitudes. BTW, we don’t ‘import’ anyone. People struggle to come here because they see it as a superior place. It is. — Garth

#142 Shawn on 11.21.13 at 6:33 pm

DOCILE

You do have a choice… don’t drive.

*****************************

A docile population would agree.

Reminds me of the old saying that driving is a privledge, not a right.

ABSOLUTELY WRONG

We should be free to drive as a matter of right with the government allowed only to impose REASONABLE restrictions. Like get a licence (test should NOT be onerous) and have insurnace.

Driving is a RIGHT of free men modified only by REASONABLE restrictions. It is not some gift of priveledge bestowed by government.

You can lose your RIGHT to drive just like your RIGHT to freedom but both are in the first instance a RIGHTs not priveledges.

If you check the common law, you will see I am correct.

#143 Nemesis on 11.21.13 at 6:45 pm

@SnowBoid/#110

You waz a Pongo! [that’s, “Squaddy” for all you pedantic CommonWealth readers]… OutStanding.

@CommonSense/#116 & @IconoClast/#127

BonusZen just for youz…

[LAT] – Errol Flynn’s final days chronicled in ‘Last of Robin Hood’

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/moviesnow/la-et-mn-toronto-errol-flynn-20130906,0,4849452.story

[LAT] – Beverly E. Fisher dies at 67; Errol Flynn’s final girlfriend

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/10/local/la-me-beverly-aadland10-2010jan10

@JFK ConspiracyTheorists:

You’ll doubtless enjoy this PeerReviewed Scientific BonusZen on the question of the SecondShooter:

[BBC] – Scientist questions JFK lone killer theory

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1244907.stm

&LastUp:

@Ralph/#76

Mea culpa – I was feeling rather dystopian myself.

Sometimes, to paraphrase a certain CrankyPrussian – “…and when you gaze too long into the StellarWind the StellarWind also gazes into you.” I definitely shouldn’t imbibe on those days.

Never mind, it was just so pleasantly startling to see our VeryOwn SmokingMan beginning to find his voice and HitHisStride [talk about NewFound syntax seasoned with fervour!] that the temptation to showcase/contrast public discourse at it Finest – vs. the variety typified by SM’s ‘Hero’ became altogether irresistible.

Brilliant dialogue masterfully enacted by ChampionThesps was just a Writers’/Audience Bonus.

Hmmm… UnfinishedBusiness: as to why Nem’s StemWinder infused synapses leapt onto Nuremberg and the ScopesMonkeyTrial – who knows?

It must have been a SpencerTracy thang. Either that or the anticipation of Coming Attractions in the form of Ford/Duffy/Harper ShowTrials.

…regardless, the next thing ya know, having spent the earlier part of the day uselessly pondering the StrangeMetaPhysics of how Homo Economicus’ aggregated OstensiblyGood MicroOutcomes frequently yield EntirelyUnintended [and often Brutal/Abhorrent] MacroOutcomes, I recalled a particularly cherished ThematicallyLinked Ralphism… and thence the addendum. MyBad.

Now, if only I could remember to what purpose! I’ll bet that happens to SmokingMan all the time.

As for your MostExcellentDiaTribe [even if it wasn’t quite to our MagnanimousHost’s taste] … Morris Berman and Chalmers Johnson got there first; but – even if I say so myself – with rather less impact.

Invoking Tommy Udo was SheerGenius. It doesn’t get AnyDarker than that.

Kudos.

The important thing to remember about Capitalism is that it’s rather like ice cream… which is to say, available in many flavours – some of which are markedly more palatable than others.

And now for some well deserved ComicRelief… re: …”[that] guy in the basement of Fort Meade who can make a good prediction at what you’re going to have for breakfast the day after tomorrow.”

Damn! I think know ‘him’ [or used to, so to speak]! We’re talkin’ Austin Millbarge, right?

http://youtu.be/Gl1FHUIWNzY

#144 Ralph Cramdown on 11.21.13 at 6:49 pm

#130 James — “The point is nobody knows how much and when RE will correct. What difference does it make if it drops 5-20% if its your primary residence.”

Classic fuzzyheaded thinking. If it goes down 12%, it doesn’t matter whether I’m living in it or renting it out. If I own it, I’m booking the loss.

I look at my investments from a cash flow perspective. If I’ve got a choice between telco paying 5% per year and a condo paying me 2% per year, what should I do?

N.B. The dreaded envelope came in under the door today. My landlord is increasing my rent by 0.8%. Hydro and heat included. Maybe I should buy some bitcoin mining cards and reduce my landlord’s heating bills?

#145 Nemesis on 11.21.13 at 6:56 pm

Afterthought inspired by….

“So close the door and see how many of your storied youth aspire to drive cabs.” – BlinkeredGarth

For the record, AuldPol. BeenThere. DoneThat – Summer ‘O ’77 between semesters [a Magnificent CompetitionOrange FordCustom500 for Bonny’s ‘o Burnaby]…

FavouriteMemory? The elderly ScottishLassie who – in spite of her BestCeltic ThriftyInstincts – insisted on tipping me a nickel for carrying her groceries and offered profuse in her best Edinburgh brogue.

As it happened, by the next summer, I was driving somewhat larger ‘boats’…

#146 Vamanos Pest on 11.21.13 at 7:10 pm

#134 James

As you made no attempt to back up the claim, I’ll take that as evidence that you can’t, because it’s simply not true.

BTW my 2012 income: 360k. Of course it’s affordable to me, I’m in the 1%. But you didn’t say affordable to the 1%, you said affordable. It isn’t.

#147 NoName on 11.21.13 at 7:57 pm

Unbelievable
http://goo.gl/Nm95Sq

A resort that allows rich tourists to pretend they live like millions of impoverished Africans in ramshackle shanty towns has been described as ‘poverty porn’.

#148 johnnny on 11.21.13 at 8:04 pm

Wills – like investment portfolios,sometimes(often) require rebalancing.

#149 Bottoms_Up on 11.21.13 at 8:09 pm

#22 Pete on 11.20.13 at 11:14 pm
————————————–
If those stats are correct, there was a blatant lie to keep the party going.

They will conveniently say they inverted the numbers by accident in 2013. So instead of reporting 2012 numbers as 2973, someone goofed and inverted the last three to 2379.

This is an outrage, and people should be up in arms. This industry needs regulation.

#150 Herb on 11.21.13 at 8:20 pm

Smoking Man #112,

“See the difference old buddy…”

Why of course, dear boy. One uses persuasion by fraudulent means (such as lying about the benefits of a particular product) for personal gain, the other would be robbery relying on coercion IF the money stayed with the coercers.

Surely you don’t suggest that Wynn is enriching herself? Until government pursues its own financial profit motive, it’s not the same thing.

Perhaps car insurance rates are so high because the government yielded to specific business interests.

#151 happity on 11.21.13 at 8:25 pm

In terms of the numbers that matter – P/E ratios – the equity market is nowhere near its high. A normal correction is overdue, but certainly nothing to panic about. — Garth

That historic measure was developed when the fed was NOT Printing over $85 billion a month.

And the percentage bears is the lowest in 25 years, with participants lowest in over a decade. Who are stock investors going to sell to?

The greater fool theory applies more so here than the real estate market.

Hardly. But only a gambler would have an all-equity portfolio. Or gold. — Garth

#152 Observer on 11.21.13 at 8:43 pm

There is no bubble….

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/26/AR2005102602255.html

Oops, that was so 2005

#153 recharts on 11.21.13 at 9:00 pm

So close the door and see how many of your storied youth aspire to drive cabs, work at Tim’s or change diapers. Immigration is not the problem. It is our entitled attitudes. BTW, we don’t ‘import’ anyone. People struggle to come here because they see it as a superior place. It is. — Garth

It is not! As long as you don’t find balance it is not.

Let me tell you a story: I had a contract with big company here in To. I am not going to mention the industry because I do not want to make waves around here.
When I landed there another contractor was leaving. I could not understand why. The project he was working on was still open and there was ton of work to do. All the full time employees in that team that we were supposed to help had the same background. There were 4 contractors and 8 full time employees when I landed there, myself included. Two of the contractors were accepted and they worked just fine with the team. The other two were determined to live. I was the other contractor who had to live. While my colleague was let go I could not take it anymore and I terminated the contract myself.

Guess what, the other two contractors who could work just fine in that environment shared the same background with the full timers. They were not any better than the two of us. But they had access to information and the most interesting work was sent their way. During my contract there they hired another guy. Some situation. Same background.
And here is the most funny part of it. They had a Lat-America team. All were supposed to speak Spanish there for obvious reasons. ALL BUT ONE.
I will let you guess what background that one had.
Of course probably HR had to chose between being an fair employer and budget constraints. I did not even bother to fill complain. I could not see them changing their just because a contractor complained.

If you believe that imbalancing the mix of immigrants is a wise policy it is your business but do not expect us to buy that.

#154 Snowboid on 11.21.13 at 9:21 pm

#143 Nemesis on 11.21.13 at 6:45 pm

“You waz a Pongo! [that’s, “Squaddy” for all you pedantic CommonWealth readers]… OutStanding.”

It was hard to be humble then, the ladies really did like a man in uniform – even if I never made it to an officers’ rank – or even an NCO!

But your assessment is pretty ‘spot-on’ as the military in the 1960s was still very close to our British roots.

#155 done on 11.21.13 at 9:41 pm

I have lost faith and never will be in a house. I waited too long. My banker told me they have been told the interest rates will be low for another 10 years

Your banker is making it up. — Garth

#156 Bottoms_Up on 11.21.13 at 11:46 pm

#82 Pete on 11.21.13 at 11:29 am
—————————————-
You’d be better off writing to your MP and demanding accountability and regulations on the CREAps.

#157 Choices on 11.22.13 at 12:51 am

#142 Shawn on 11.21.13 at 6:33 pm

Right or privilege, no one is forced to drive.

#158 Choices on 11.22.13 at 2:43 am

#142 Shawn on 11.21.13 at 6:33 pm

******************************

Right or privilege, no one is forced to drive.

#159 World Traveller on 11.22.13 at 12:42 pm

#13 Smoking Man on 11.20.13 at 10:11 pm

While I am no fan of Fordo (the man should have know better about how politics work, a sheer amount of niavete on his part). The lack of coverage of the Liberals multiple scandals really paints what the MSM is all about. If only it was a sexier story with hookers, crack and swearing they would have been all over it. But since the liberals are really good at playing the political game, the MSM gives them a pass. You can’t blame them though when the world wide MSM is salivating for the next RF gaff.