How people think

CHEW

Okay, so this is the last time I’ll mention the sex house. Honest.

But why is it that an old 16-foot row property next door to a grotty parking lot and within squirting distance of a swingers sex club on a dodgy Toronto drag attracted multiple bids, selling for almost $800,000 (including tax), or $150,000 more than the sellers asked? Cheap mortgage money? Of course. Idiot buyers? Roger that.

But a major factor was competition. I’ve mentioned many times that while the top and bottom ends of the real estate market are saggy (I know the feeling), the manic middle is hot. Listings between $500,000 and $900,000 – often gut jobs, semis or attached houses like this one – have turned into auctions.

Partially this is because CMHC mortgage insurance disappears for anything selling over a million, which means the buyers of a $1.2 million home in Toronto, for example, must have at least $280,000 in cash. But the buyers of a $900,000 property need only cough up $45,000, sticking everything else on the mortgage.

More importantly, competition comes from demand (even if it is waning) chasing dwindling supply. The fact is the number of houses for sale in major markets like Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver, where prices have held firm, has been scant. (Compare this to cities like Montreal or Halifax, where listings have jumped and prices have flatlined or dropped.)

For example, in Vancouver last month there were 16,115 properties on the market, a 12.2% fade from the same period a year earlier. In Calgary, monthly new listings have generally declined now for three years.

In the GTA there were 20,194 active listings last month, a 6.6% drop from the previous autumn – and of those, over 7,500 were condos. That leaves about 13,000 detached homes, of which 2,800 were listed for over $1,000,000. So you can see in an urban area of six million people, where 7,000 to 9,000 properties sell during active months, competition can be brutal. Especially if you’re restricting your search to special areas of the city, like close to major transit or near nice folks who like to shag in foursomes.

So here’s the question: if the housing market is still an over-inflated gasbag without the serious correction that almost all credible economists believe is inevitable (and overdue), why the heck aren’t more homeowners cashing in? Why are prices up in the past year, yet listings are down?

Two reasons. First, this is typical behaviour when the media tells people real estate is hot. People who own houses suddenly think they’re Warren Buffet, and every single day they hang on they’ll get richer. Greed being what it is, they also come to think that every sale on their street (or block, or in the hood) sets a new minimum price point for their special house. Second, folks thinking of selling worry about buying. Once they swallow the meme of romping prices, they fear they won’t be able to replace their home – or simply balk at having to pay the same money they’re asking a buyer to cough up.

Here’s a fact for you: almost everybody thinks their asking price is reasonable. Almost nobody would pay it to buy their own house.

But there’s more emotional baggage delaying the housing plop we all know is coming. I thought Property Guys franchise owner Nathan Dautovich did a decent job of explaining it in a column he wrote days ago. Above all, he reminds us, every homeowner thinks his or her place is better than the one next door or across the street. This is hilarious, for example, when the house is the Fernwood Model in a giant subdivision where 438 other Fernwoods live.

Or Jen’s place. It’s in the Yorkville district of Toronto, in a line of 12 identical heritage row houses. The one two doors down has been on the market for a year at just over $1 million. But Jen and Peter think their carbon copy is special (there’s a new kitchen and bath), and they priced it at $1.3 million. “Too aggressive,” I told them when they asked me. That was two months ago. It’s still for sale, even with a reduction to $1.2 million. Soon it’ll be stale, and ultimately trade for considerably less.

Dautovich is also right about this: lots of people don’t list because they paid too much in the first place.

“When it comes to pricing, homeowners consistently refuse to take a loss on their house when they sell, and they need to at least break even on their investment. Even if the market is telling them it will be impossible to recoup their original investment, they often either decide to price it too high, or to just not sell. The industry analysts are missing the fact that there are a number of homeowners who would list right now, but are choosing not to take a loss on their home.”

Finally, the lesson of the sex house. The sellers of that place won the lottery. In fact, newspapers and TV talking heads in Van, Calgary and the GTA love nothing better than to dish up stories of bidding wars and bloated prices. So what happens when the listing agent sits at your kitchen table, pulls out some comparables, and tells you what you’re really likely to get?

“Every day we hear stories about people making huge profits from real estate; everyone has a friend or two that has sold a house in a “hot neighbourhood” for a windfall profit,” says Dautovich. “People don’t want to tell their successful friends about how they lost money when they sold their home. It becomes more about their social status and ego than about the economic indicators. Any investor will tell you that this is a bad way to look at an investment, and that the purchase price is irrelevant, but that is not how most people see it.”

So there you go. After four years of cheap money, rampant real estate speculation, bloated prices and a bubble mentality, there are more than a million families who have bought properties with historic low mortgages and at record high prices. They’re fully invested in the housing dirigible. Great numbers will come to learn they’ll never get all their money out.

And then the exits will clog.

Note: Chinks appear in CREA’s armour as more people question those real estate Frankenumbers. Read this in today’s Globe & Mail.

147 comments ↓

#1 Pat on 10.27.13 at 7:56 pm

Remember, not only did you and I contribute to CPP but your employer did, too. It totalled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that’s close to $220,500. Read that again. Did you see where the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money you and your employer put in a Government bank to insure you and I that we would have a retirement cheque from the money we put in, not the Government. Now they are calling the money we put in an entitlement when we reach the age to take it back. If you calculate the future invested value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer’s contribution) at a simple 5% interest (less than what the govt. pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you’d have $892,919.98.

If you took out only 3% per year, you’d receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years (until you’re 95 if you retire at age 65) and that’s with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you’d have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month.

Another thing with me…. I have two deceased husbands who died in their 50’s, (one was 51 and the other one was 59 before one percent of their CPP could be drawn). I worked all my life and am drawing 100% from my own CPP so I am receiving the maximum allowable payment per month. My two deceased husband’s CPP money will never have one cent drawn from what they paid into the CPP plan all their lives.>

THE FOLKS IN OTTAWA HAVE PULLED OFF A BIGGER PONZI SCHEME THAN BERNIE MADOFF EVER DID.

Entitlement my foot, I paid cash for my CPP! Just because they borrowed the money for other government spending, doesn’t make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!!

Remember Senator’s benefits? — free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days. Now that’s welfare, and they have the nerve to call my CPP retirement payments entitlements?

We’re “broke” and the government can’t help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, or Homeless. Yet in the past few years we have provided aid to Haiti , Chile, Turkey, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc. Literally, BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!! And they can’t help our own citizens !

Our retired seniors living on a ‘fixed income’ (CPP and OAS) receive no additional federal aid nor do they get any financial breaks, while our government and religious organizations pour hundreds of billions of $$$ and tons of food to foreign countries!

They call CPP an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now, when it’s time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place? It was supposed to be in a locked box, not part of the general fund.

#2 Steve French on 10.27.13 at 8:06 pm

Lou Reed wasn’t a horny property virgin.

Just ask yourself.

What would Lou Reed do.

#3 Question on 10.27.13 at 8:10 pm

When housing finally drops in value, how honest will the assessment be on the home?

#4 Robbie on 10.27.13 at 8:11 pm

Right on Garth! I’m a Realtor and I am certainly seeing exactly what you are saying.

Oh, I just picked some blackberries (2nd crop has come out because of the mild weather) when out on a walk and then some raspberries from my garden. Sadly, the strawberries are pretty green and I only got one berry. :(

Eat your heart out those who don’t live on BC’s Southern Gulf Islands. :)

#5 Victoria Real Estate Update on 10.27.13 at 8:11 pm

. . Percentage Price Decline From Peak (3-month median) .
. . . . . . .(Oak Bay, Saanich East and North Saanich) . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 3.5%. . .X. X. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 4.0%. . . . . . . .X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 4.5%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 5.0%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 5.5%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 6.0%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 6.5%. .X. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 7.0%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .X. . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 7.5%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 8.0% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 8.5% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 9.0% . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 9.5%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X. X . . . . . . .
– 10.0%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 10.5%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .
– 11.0%. . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
– 11.5%. . . . . . . . . . .X . . . . . . .X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
—————————————————————————————–
. . . . . . . M. J. J. A. S. O. N. D. J. F. M. A. M. J. J. A. S . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .2012. . . . ./. . . . . . . . 2013. . . . . . . . . . . .

Single family home prices across all areas of Greater Victoria have declined significantly from peak. You wouldn’t know this by reading what the local media has reported.

The upper end of the single family home market, often talked about as the most stable and least likely to correct, has already declined 10.7% from the peak (see chart). The upper end of the SFH market is made up of Oak Bay, Saanich East and North Saanich.

Prices at the lower end of the SFH market are 14.2% below peak. The lower end of the SFH market is made up of Esquimalt, Sidney, Colwood, Langford and Sooke. I will post this chart soon.

Condos and townhouses have done no better than SFHs.

Monthly stats are available from the VREB website. Note that the overall SFH monthly median has been skewed upward in dramatic fashion throughout 2013 due to an unusually high percentage of upper end SFH sales compared to lower end SFH sales. The VREB has reported the overall SFH median without explaining the extreme upward skewing. They have not reported that SFH prices have declined 10-15%. I have been able to remove much of the upward (median) skewing by treating the upper and lower ends of the SFH market as separate markets. This allows a clear view of the price decline that is well underway at both ends of the market.

So far this year, total SFH sales are only slightly ahead of 2012’s pace. In 2012, the total number of SFH sales was the lowest since 1982. Victoria is deep within buyer’s market territory.

Victoria’s housing market is simply weak, no matter how you look at it.

Girls and guys, now is not the time to buy a house in Victoria. Much bigger price declines are on the way.

Garth has pointed out many times that too much household debt is really bad for an economic recovery and the government obviously knows this. Canada’s household debt-to-income ratio is dangerously high (third chart) and the government will do what it takes to lower it. Once this ratio starts to drop, house prices across Canada will correct significantly. In the US this ratio started to drop at the end of 2007 and that was when the US housing market began to crash.

Rent for now. The big price declines are just around the corner. If you buy now you will be forced to watch the value of your house drop significantly. How much fun would that be?

Until next time – Cheers!

#6 Ralph Cramdown on 10.27.13 at 8:12 pm

#1 Pat — “Our retired seniors living on a ‘fixed income’ (CPP and OAS) receive no additional federal aid nor do they get any financial breaks”

I hope you don’t do your own taxes. Line 301.

#7 TurnerNation on 10.27.13 at 8:20 pm

From this blog (with revealing photos of urban decay):

I call it: keeping away from the Jones.

http://linhdinhphotos.blogspot.ca

” If the American Dream can be reduced to a single object, it is the suburban home, with its front yard, back yard and two car garage. This residence must not share a wall, ceiling or floor with any neighbor, a living arrangement highly unusual worldwide, but that’s why it’s called the American Dream, dummy, not the Cambodian or Italian Fantasy. If you want to dwell in a hive, go back to your country! Any country. The American Dream cannot perch over a coffee house, boulangerie or taqueria. To live apart is a core wish of the American Dream, with having everything private, including a separate wash basin and toilet from your children, or even spouse, and neighbors are nuisances, of course. Though you may occasionally invite them into your fenced off American Dream, it’s best that you hardly see them, with an occasional wave or quick banter a sufficient acknowledgement of their annoying presence. The American Dream, then, is basically an escape from other people, be they blacks, immigrants or other whites, the wrong types, or even the right kinds. Whoever. Just stay away from me, OK?”

#8 sideline sitter on 10.27.13 at 8:21 pm

low numbers of listings, unsophisticated buyers, cheap mortgages and people can still afford their payments.

until one of these legs breaks, everything will stay the same.

#9 espressobob on 10.27.13 at 8:25 pm

Parkdale? What a place. Strolling around the area should produce some good belly laughs. Some of these dwellings are actually tilted in one direction or another, rotting foundations maybe? Almost forgot to mention the concave roofs here and there. And there going for 700-800K!?!?

And that certain nightclub has a basement that looks more like a five foot high dungeon with smells that can’t be described by modern science. And that was a decade ago! Maybe thats where they keep the towels?

#10 Cogdis on 10.27.13 at 8:29 pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/property-report/accuracy-of-canadas-housing-data-under-scrutiny/article15107922/#dashboard/follows/

I feel so mainstream and un-contrarian.

#11 LH on 10.27.13 at 8:30 pm

Compared to this place in Surrey Hills, Sydney, the Toronto row house looks a) spacious and b) cheap cheap cheap!

http://www.domain.com.au/Property/For-Sale/House/NSW/Surry-Hills/?adid=2010736795

Sold for $1.094 million AUD to a 23 year old student*

http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/milliondollar-first-home-20131026-2w8ch.html

*who isn’t even chinese! wow

#12 Duffy Needs his meds on 10.27.13 at 8:30 pm

Dear Pat,
You get the politicians you deserve.

– Love Mike.

#13 TurnerNation on 10.27.13 at 8:34 pm

Keep an eye on our largest trading partner – down south.
A few books about a showing USA decay I read – before the GFC:
– Deer Hunting with Jesus.
– Nickeled and Dimed – on just getting by in America.
– Blue Collar Aristocrat.

While in Uni my electives were all in Psych, Soci, Anthro.
That’s why I like Bay St.: its people and its machinations.
Nothing so raw as trade – exposes and tests every belief.

#14 How is the high-end market faring? on 10.27.13 at 8:36 pm

“…while the top and bottom ends of the real estate market are saggy…”

Can you point to any statistics or such that give us some insight in how the 1m+ housing market is faring? Thx!

– Jon

#15 Infused with Opiates on 10.27.13 at 8:37 pm

1 Pat – please review your numbers. If you are collecting CPP now, you and your employer paid nowhere near
15% of your earnings. Maximum now is aobut 10% after being raised over time.

The CPP investment board currently has more than $100B invested to help thru the boomer bulge.

Sorry about your husbands. While I would like to see
some kind of commuted value for CPP that is not collected, (so it works like true savings) unfortuneately
the system wasnt designed that way. The risk gets pooled.

#16 LH on 10.27.13 at 8:38 pm

Every time I feel that SFH in YTO is getting out of control, I check the action on SFH in SYD and am reminded that all is while.

Let’s not forget that SYD has HIGHER interest rates, a central bank policy rate a full 1.5% higher and floating rate mortgage rates at an even wider spread over Canadian rates.

If Canadians learn to be as confident like our antipodean cousins, SFH in C01 and the nicer parts (close to Bloor) of C02 could go up another 20-40% over the next few years. Actually, I now think this to be the most likely scenario. Just look at the guava.ca SFH listings map, a sea of listings everwhere with a black hole around where the U of T St. George Campus is. Anything that comes up gets snapped up within days. Witness 35 Henry, asking about 899k, sold for 999k. Still looks cheap than the Surrey Hills dump (A1.094 million for an <1000 sq row house, I still can't believe it! If anything the area is more of a dump than Baldwin Village)

#17 Victor V on 10.27.13 at 8:45 pm

Garth, the link back to your blog from that G&M article was not done correctly. If you haven’t already, you should ask them to fix.

#18 Cogdis on 10.27.13 at 8:46 pm

“So here’s the question: if the housing market is still an over-inflated gasbag without the serious correction that almost all credible economists believe is inevitable (and overdue), why the heck aren’t more homeowners cashing in?”

If someone cashes in, what to do with the windfall? Many observers feel the market may be due for a correction.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gurucentral/2013/09/24/why-you-should-prepare-for-a-stock-market-correction/

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/liquidity-concerns-and-a-market-correction-ahead-2013-09-06

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/is-market-correction-over-or-just-beginning-cm285653

People feel more comfortable in hard assets. Yet it seems all assets have seen unreasonable price appreciation. Being a saver doesn’t pay worth a darn, and buying assets is fraught with large risk for small return.

#19 Hollywood on 10.27.13 at 8:49 pm

I agree totally with Garth. That being said, people still continue to buy houses at historically high prices. They still need financing and need to pay the monthly mortgage payments. This puzzles me the most – how are these people “able” to have any disposable income after the end of the month. Is it extra roommates, renters, or basically living beyond one’s means and getting further in debt?

#20 zee on 10.27.13 at 8:52 pm

hi garth

when will this correction come.on the sidelines and with mortgage rates moving up and tighter lending rules, i thought that by now some form of correction would have taken place in the markets that matters, such as toronto, markharm,richmond hill.

#21 Nemesis on 10.27.13 at 8:54 pm

@TurnerNation/#7

This is for you… [yes, the ScholarsGotThereFirst]

http://tinyurl.com/nuqyxrp

@FrenchieStephen/#2

I know. So do you…

http://youtu.be/RsVLIiI8Vfo

[NoteToGT: StillGrieving. Former MusicCorrespondents are allowed… Right?]

#22 Kootenay Ma on 10.27.13 at 8:57 pm

OMyGosh

“duplicately”

I know Mr. Gregory Klump specializes in economics, but this word screeches in my cyber ears…. twice in a row…

Fiddly, I know ….

#23 jaguar on 10.27.13 at 8:58 pm

“buyers of the 900,000 listings need only come up with 45,000″………..

It really is not that difficult to come up with these funds. Especially if there are two house virgins. Many take advantage of the credit lines constantly being flogged their way by banks, credit unions, etc. There are many ways to achieve the downpayment. In their haste to become homeowners they get on the conveyor belt of debt, debt, debt. Getting on is easy. Getting off…..not so much.

#24 sheane wallace on 10.27.13 at 8:58 pm

Canada Moral Hazard Corporation aka CMHC.
Brought to you by Carl Junior (sorry, the little elf F).

Just disband it and watch the show. The banks will NEVER issue 80 % of the mortgages they give away these days.

Leave and and Canadian dollar would be worth ZERO or close to zero in the next 3-5 years.

The quarantines by CMHC surpass the deposits in Ca banks.

Pensions, Health care? Sweet dreams.

Just read that the mandatory mammograms for women over 50 would be reduced to one every three years covered by the government instead of every year as it is now?

Breast cancer? It is your problem, not the govrenmnet’s problem.

Brought to you by Carl Junior, sorry the little F.

#25 Multiple Offers on 10.27.13 at 8:59 pm

All you low-ball sillies, you’re not really helping!!

The trickster-agent uses your offers to show the Sucker that there is great demand here, Multiple Offers! The trickster-agent being one of high integrity & a keeper of fiduciary responsibility can never tell (or wont ever tell) the Sucker anything about the other offers only that “if you really want the place you’d better put in at asking or to better guarantee, about a $50k cushion above asking”. The Sucker buyer goes for it not knowing the ONLY other REAL offer was 25% less than asking and the 2 further offers were just agents (peers or friends) creating the illusion of multiple offers.

That’s right, all that’s ever really needed by the trickster-agent are only two interested parties and his own creations of a demand which he gets from a little help from his friends. If the two interested parties show great enthusiasm for the area, the show begins & goes & where it ends, nobody knows!!!

I’ll bet that if someone ever investigated the trickster-agent, the investigator would discover that the same names (his friends or peers) appeared over & over on many of his successful sales! Be careful, the deck really is loaded!!

#26 sheane wallace on 10.27.13 at 9:11 pm

my, my, so many errors in my previous post… I need another drink.

#27 a former payroll clerk on 10.27.13 at 9:15 pm

#1 Pat on 10.27.13 at 7:56 pm

Sorry Pat, your information is completely wrong. To begin, your post isn’t even your own unless, of course, your wrote the original “letter” on the internet several months ago. I suspect you did not, merely copied it here word for word.

And in no way are you now, nor have you ever, had 7.5% of your gross pay deducted for CPP. This year the maximum you would have contributed is 4.95% matched by an identical amount by your employer. And that is only on income between $3500 and about $48,000.

Prior to 1997 the percentage was even lower, something less than 3% and very much less in the early years of the plan. You could look it up on the CRA website but I suspect you’d rather rant and rave here rather than post accurate information. So I’ll leave you to it.

#28 please help on 10.27.13 at 9:18 pm

Long time reader. What do u think about buying apartment
building in Ontario for investment? what city would you
recommend given 800k budget as purchase price.

i would buy reits and preferred but wifey comes from a culture
that wants to own brick and mortar… so i am stuck

#29 Serge on 10.27.13 at 9:23 pm

GTA Weekly Drop – October 27, 2013
http://gtapricedrop.blogspot.ca/

#30 Country Girl on 10.27.13 at 9:26 pm

#25 Multiple Offers on 10.27.13 at 8:59 pm

How do you know this?

#31 JimmyAAA on 10.27.13 at 9:31 pm

#1 Pat on 10.27.13 at 7:56 pm
====================================
This has been posted several times on social media and email chains for several years now. It is mostly false and is not your work at all. If you are going to quote, please cite your sources. Im sick of people that like the message so perpetrate it, rather than investigating and upon discovering the untruth, deciding not to post.

READ

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/benefit.asp

#32 HAWK on 10.27.13 at 9:32 pm

#8 sideline sitter on 10.27.13 at 8:21 pm

=========================

Good point, the one leg I’d dearly like to see break but won’t happen are all the construction dudes minting money. Compensation for construction laborers, dry wallers, plumbers and all these people is out of control.

Until that declines house prices will remain very high, because people have to pay so much for decently constructed dwelling.

#33 Sebee on 10.27.13 at 9:36 pm

Garth,

Are you sure a good % of transactions is not perhaps foreign money or money “cleansing” thanks to loose rules on foreign ownership? Sure, not 50%, but perhaps 10% or 15%…enough to move numbers. My buddy just rented a 1.2m home for $2400 a month. Owner came in for a week, bought, agent looked for a renter. No way it makes sense to “invest” like that.

#34 Spiltbongwater on 10.27.13 at 9:38 pm

CTV BC had a bit about HAM marketers and buyers etc. Not sure if it was newvertisments, but the Realtor said about 40% of the luxery buyers in Van were rich from China.

#35 X on 10.27.13 at 9:43 pm

It frustrates me how the gov’t allows the lambs to continue to be led to slaughter by taking on cheap debt…

#36 economictsunami on 10.27.13 at 9:44 pm

With the Fed balking at even a totally meaningless reduction of QE and 2 ticks away from their 7% unemployment rate, they secretly keep their fingers crossed for a ‘bonafide’ financial disaster in order to invoke additional extra ordinary monetary policy intervention.

Cue the US Congress… once again…

Not so fast: The improving unemployment rate masks problems…

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/24/206407/not-so-fast-the-improving-unemployment.html#storylink=cpy

#37 Worried on 10.27.13 at 9:44 pm

Recently discovered that two people I know who have bought houses are not in the great financial positions I thought they were in. One said he was still paying off student loans, the other said he poured all of his savings in to his new home (still needed CMHC) and is now feeling a bit tight for cash.

This won’t end well.

#38 Smoking Man on 10.27.13 at 9:47 pm

I have said it on this pathetic blog like 12 times over the years, if the machine wants to keep control, inflate the debt away.

Re London, threw the roof, Toronto on the way up. USA on the up tic.

Wage spikes to follow.

It’s elementary and logical…..

#39 Ralph Cramdown on 10.27.13 at 9:49 pm

“How is the high-end market faring?”

Others do statistics faster than I can (and kudos to Victoria Real Estate Update for producing ASCII charts for proportional font posts!), but when talking about the high end, isn’t anecdote so much more fun?

Let’s start with an ur-goldbug’s house:
http://themashcanada.blogspot.ca/2012/09/24-old-forest-hill-road-forest-hill.html
Originally offered at $25, currently listed for $18. That’s down 28%. Coincidence? Note that the reason he could afford this pile in the first place is that he sold the gold he dug up (often forward, for less than he could have gotten spot, but I digress).

There’s a cozier place up the street at 97 Old Forest Hill Road for a mere $4. It’s a power of sale. “A prominent Canadian was a prior tenant…” How’s THAT for showing a bit of ankle?

For the “Let our horses eat cake” set, 40 Park Lane Circle goes under the hammer with no reserve on November 26th. The property will be open 1-4pm daily. Previously offered at $23. “Near completion.”
http://goo.gl/ZeHCwK

#40 Victor V on 10.27.13 at 9:52 pm

1 bedroom condo’s from $179,900 to $219,00 – 25% to 35% off the original selling price in Muskoka.

http://blog.condooutlet.com/MuskokaCondos

=============

Will greater fools fall for this marketing ploy? ^^

#41 X on 10.27.13 at 9:52 pm

In regards to the G&M article….

Comparing YOY stats of last years sales that actually closed, and those of current accepted offers, would make a steady market appear that it is rising.

Apples and oranges…..resulting in no credibility for their numbers.

#42 Victor V on 10.27.13 at 9:55 pm

Hey folks, I encourage you all to visit the Globe and Mail article that Garth has referenced. Consider leaving a comment there or at least giving “thumbs up/down” to other replies.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/property-report/accuracy-of-canadas-housing-data-under-scrutiny/article15107922/comments/

#43 Steven on 10.27.13 at 10:03 pm

But why is it that an old 16-foot row property next door to a grotty parking lot and within squirting distance of a swingers sex club on a dodgy Toronto drag attracted multiple bids, selling for almost $800,000 (including tax), or $150,000 more than the sellers asked? Cheap mortgage money? Of course. Idiot buyers? Roger that.

These real estate prices are insane and perverse!
Buyers that would willingly pay so much for so little need their heads examined and then some.

#44 BG on 10.27.13 at 10:09 pm

The prices aren’t dropping significantly until the correction becomes a popular opinion.

#45 [email protected] on 10.27.13 at 10:11 pm

from crea website

The information contained in this report has been prepared by The Canadian Real Estate Association drawn from sources deemed to be reliable, but the accuracy and completeness of the information is not guaranteed. In providing this information, The Canadian Real Estate Association does not assume any responsibility or liability.

Is such a disclaimer even legal?

#46 Joe on 10.27.13 at 10:12 pm

Here’s one from left field.
In our area of Edgemont Village in North Vancouver open house’s are being swarmed by Japanese.
Why the increase…well for those of you who only watch and listen to mainstream news perhaps you remember a earthquake a few years back in Fukushima.

It hasn’t really been much of a news story here.
Well large numbers of Japanese are freaking out and getting out because of the radiation that’s turning up in their atmosphere, ground water, seawater and overall food chain.
And if you have enough money or contacts which they are being set up with its easy to get fast tracked into BC.

#47 Brew on 10.27.13 at 10:13 pm

@#4 Robbie in BC
Here in SW Ontario I’m still picking red strawberries as big as your nose and large Empire apples from my tree. Sun is what makes those berries red.

#48 Dan From Calgary on 10.27.13 at 10:15 pm

Maybe the new swinger owners like the convenient location…

#49 Drill Baby Drill on 10.27.13 at 10:16 pm

DELETED

#50 Notta Sheeple on 10.27.13 at 10:20 pm

“…..Read this in today’s Globe & Mail……”
======================

A few REALTURD®’s are posting comments to that Globe story, including the perpetually-smug “whazzup”, an individual of questionable intellect whose magnetic personality continues to attract record numbers of thumbs down from the more informed readers of the Globe.

#51 Entrepreneur on 10.27.13 at 10:21 pm

That 16-foot row property next door to a swingers sex club…a family would not buy there so who would buy there?

#19 Holywood…my daughter lives in Victoria…she says people her age their parents get the mortgage… the parents live on the top floor, the adult children live in the middle, renters live in the basement…this has been going on for at least 7 or 8 years. This is all to survive and hopefully to carry on.

#1 Pat on CPP: My husband and I commercial fished in the seventies off of the B.C. coast. Wives were not considered as an income earner so my name or income did not make it to the government. I did not exist. Fish farms came in in the ninties (which my husband noticed less fish after two years they came in) the fishing industry came to an end. This is reality, folks.
My heart goes out to anyone who finds it hard to receive CPP and worked all their lives. We are non-existent in the government eyes.

Earth does not know debt and money but mankind does. Earth does not know greed only mankind knows greed.

#52 Notta Sheeple on 10.27.13 at 10:28 pm

“…#7 TurnerNation on 10.27.13 at 8:20 pm…”
=========================

Priceless (and pathetically true).

Definitely a keeper. Thanks for sharing.

#53 dienekes on 10.27.13 at 10:28 pm

F wont do anything further, he already has better stats telling him things are going to hell without further intervention.
Does anyone know if the sale of the house near squirtsville actually closed.
That is also one of the most disturbing things I have read in awhile, up there with the women in China birthing babies into sewers. I should just quit reading the news. No wonder houses keep selling, that is minor compared to peoples moral degradation.

#54 Observer Person on 10.27.13 at 10:32 pm

In N3 (lower 905?), there are plenty of family houses – 3+ bedrooms – listed on MLS between $600,000 and $900,000. 187 of them. These folks aren’t holding on or waiting.

Here’s one with a description that’s hard to beat:

“From When You First Walk Up The Tumble Stone Walkway, With Custom Built-In Rock Landscape Lighting, And Then Enter Through Custom-Designed Stained Glass Doorway Of Frank Lloyd Wright’s ‘Prairie House’ Theme, You Will Then Stand In Awe.”

Can’t you just see Charleton Heston as Moses, standing there in awe?

#55 dienekes on 10.27.13 at 10:35 pm

#39 cramdown
But Munk has stated he has full confidence in the Toronto market, even investing in constructing condos.
Apparently he is as good at realestate as he is at managing Barrick.

#56 Island renters on 10.27.13 at 10:41 pm

within squirting distance of a swingers sex club- ewww! Garth!
Here in victoria housing prices continue to slump. Although we popped into an open house for a 3 bedroom for just under 500,000 and they already had an accepted offer, but were taking names in case things fell through.

#57 Observer Person on 10.27.13 at 10:45 pm

#7 ” If the American Dream can be reduced to a single object, it is the suburban home, with its front yard, back yard and two car garage. This residence must not share a wall, ceiling or floor with any neighbor … To live apart is a core wish of the American Dream, with having everything private, including a separate wash basin and toilet from your children, or even spouse, and neighbors are nuisances, of course. Though you may occasionally invite them into your fenced off American Dream, it’s best that you hardly see them, with an occasional wave or quick banter.”

Sounds like life in the GTA, without the waves or banter.
I’ve met people who’ve lived there 20 years without learning their neighbours’ names — and they don’t even seem to mind. There are parts of the USA where that kind of aloof behaviour would be considered completely aberrant and you are expected to be cordial at least and caring at best.

#58 Steve on 10.27.13 at 10:47 pm

Get rid of the skip a payment mortgage and get rid of variable rate mortgage and the price drops. 18 percent for a given mortgage affordability amount

#59 Canadian Watchdog on 10.27.13 at 11:15 pm

Still nobody says anything about presales counted as resales, like these:

Presale sold to be completed in September 2014

Presale sold to be completed in fall/winter 2014

Presale sold to be completed in fall/winter 2015

Yet every month, presales x price gets added to TREB's total dollar volume, and if average price = dollar volume/sales, then TREB is adding non-existing transaction value to GTA's average price.

#60 45north on 10.27.13 at 11:18 pm

Partially this is because CMHC mortgage insurance disappears for anything selling over a million

you know Flaherty did pretty well with that. I mean where was the outrage in the Question Period? I think that he’s got a little more room here. Like 10% down payment for sales over $800,000.

People don’t want to tell their successful friends about how they lost money when they sold their home.

and they can hold out for awhile.

Victoria Real Estate Update: sorry Victoria, your charts are not visually appealing. I like your link to 3 charts especially Household Debt to Income.

TurnerNation: If the American Dream can be reduced to a single object, it is the suburban home

You are right it is the American Dream but if you look you can find other dreams. Another dream was “The Building” in the Lower East Side (of New York City). It was an apartment building built from a private foundation for the poor. Out of it “arose some of the nation’s leading entrepreneurs as well as leaders in every profession from law to medicine, from theater to education.”

The Building, Seymour N. Harris

The Building is an example of a dream that’s not the suburban home. The Building points in the direction of new dreams and we need them because the suburban home is running out of time.

#61 KommyKim on 10.27.13 at 11:31 pm

RE: #51 Entrepreneur on 10.27.13 at 10:21 pm
#1 Pat on CPP: My husband and I commercial fished in the seventies off of the B.C. coast. Wives were not considered as an income earner so my name or income did not make it to the government. I did not exist.

So, in other words, you did NOT file taxes and pay income tax and CPP premiums on the money you earned in the 70’s.
I have no sympathy for you.

#62 Obvious Truth on 10.27.13 at 11:50 pm

Garth called the turn last week with the brilliant piece about the jumper. The last greater fool.

A lot of staunch buy and holders lately in stocks. Not enough yet though. Let’s see if this motley crossection of commenters will get the top in equities right.

When will they be all in?

Is that macro or micro. Remind me.

#63 T.O. Bubble Boy on 10.28.13 at 12:04 am

“How People Think” is an ironic title for this one… “How People Don’t Think” would be more appropriate.

#64 T.O. Bubble Boy on 10.28.13 at 12:09 am

oh – and F can’t do anything else to mortgages, since he’s been told by Harper to go all-in on the illusion of balancing the budget and having a strong economy for the 2015 elections.

notice the missing $7B, and the recent talk from Harper & Co. about passing legislation to ensure balancing the budget:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/budget-watchdog-puts-ottawas-7-billion-surprise-under-scrutiny/article15109999/

#65 World According To Garth on 10.28.13 at 12:39 am

#123 Herb on 10.26.13 at 10:16 pm
#96 World According to Garth,

now look what you’ve done did! You and Western Moron telling those tall stories about the earnings of public servants has made even ETs envious, and now they are coming down in droves to get on government payrolls.
————————————

With the way Govt sucks taxpayer money away I would believe it. Who woudnt want to part of the taxpayer funded golden handshake club.

#66 Tom from Mississauga on 10.28.13 at 12:46 am

Refusing to sell at a loss. Seen it. Colleague overpaid 100K for a 4Br house in Brampton in 2011. Tried to sell a year later for the same price. Crickets. Refuses to budge on ask, listing eventually came off the market.

#67 Victoria Real Estate Update on 10.28.13 at 12:59 am

#56 Island renters

“Here in victoria housing prices continue to slump. Although we popped into an open house for a 3 bedroom for just under 500,000 and they already had an accepted offer, but were taking names in case things fell through.”

Are you aware that buyer’s market conditions continue to persist in Victoria? It is unlikely that the realtor at this open house was taking names, as you suggest, unless the house was listed well below assessment, as a strategy to bring in multiple offers and create a bidding situation.

Would you mind sharing with us the assessed value, exact list price, etc.?

Housing prices in Victoria are deep in bubble territory. There has never been a bubble housing market that has gone through a soft landing. Victoria’s housing market will correct/crash significantly.

It’s interesting that Canadian banks are predicting a 10% price decline across Canada. Considering that banks have a vested interest in keeping house prices high, the total price decline will probably be much more than 10% (from price levels at the time this article was written).

I urge you to wait for lower prices.

#68 driesdtl on 10.28.13 at 1:05 am

http://m.smh.com.au/domain/real-estate-news/milliondollar-first-home-20131026-2w8ch

Australia’s solution – That’s it – “parents” taking control and stepping in by definitely paying more….incredible!

#69 takla on 10.28.13 at 1:26 am

garth,you used the word credible and economist in the same sentence.I believe there cant be a lot of those left out in the open after the missed calls on the U.S recouvery.Listen,when 70 % of Canadians are home owners{bank debt repayers} just how much untapped wealth is there left to keep this housing balloon afloat?

#70 dirkthedaring on 10.28.13 at 3:41 am

I take great offense to the racist statement in the last line.
I don’t see how you can single out one race getting into CREAs armor, I’m sure at least the honkeys could be there too.

#71 Buy? Curious? on 10.28.13 at 3:54 am

Hey Garth! Sorry about the previous short post. My wife hates me reading this blog and I heard someone coming down the stairs.

One of the points I wanted to make is that in every major city, home prices have gone up since 2008. In fact, many people suffer from asset envy (my orginal term, bitches!). It is the most obvious distinction between the “Haves” and the “Have Nots”. That, I assume, is why real estate has gone up contrary to your principles. Supply is dwindling while demand continues to grow. Nobody wants to live out in the subburbs anymore, unless it’s that dude, Bigrider, who must enjoy 2hour commutes one way or someone from another country who is willing to sacrifice for the sake of his family and next generation.

And that house by Wicked you keep harping about, watch when they do a few renos, live in it long enough to avoid capital gains tax, and see the tide of gentrification swallow up that neighbourhood, you’ll see it as a great investment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGxFJ5nL9gg

#72 Future Expatriate on 10.28.13 at 5:10 am

When it comes to pricing, greed is the problem.

It doesn’t matter what a place is worth at current market value; what matters is the most anyone in the neighborhood managed to swindle for theirs’ at the peak.

Sellers get these nutty numbers in their heads, and they won’t face reality.

#73 nancy on 10.28.13 at 5:48 am

Here’s one from left field.
In our area of Edgemont Village in North Vancouver open house’s are being swarmed by Japanese.
Why the increase…well for those of you who only watch and listen to mainstream news perhaps you remember a earthquake a few years back in Fukushima.

It hasn’t really been much of a news story here.
Well large numbers of Japanese are freaking out and getting out because of the radiation that’s turning up in their atmosphere, ground water, seawater and overall food chain.
And if you have enough money or contacts which they are being set up with its easy to get fast tracked into BC.
________________________

Do you think these Japanese immigrants would want to buy and settle in Richmond, BC?

#74 You are right on 10.28.13 at 6:33 am

Garth, you are right in your take on real estate. Recommended reading:

Being Right or Making Money by Ned Davis

Sorry to say that but this r/e bubble was created by stupid who did not know they were wrong and kept making money.

#75 Bob on 10.28.13 at 6:58 am

Where’s the next property bubble building? Canada’s on the list:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101143522

#76 bigrider on 10.28.13 at 7:08 am

#71 -Buy Curious

Two hour commute from Yonge, hwy 7 and 407 intersection ?? With a train station almost within walking distance ??

Buddy, you got to get out more from that urine soaked alley way you live by near wicked …LOL

#77 Fredfunder on 10.28.13 at 7:10 am

#4 Robbie

Right on Garth! I’m a Realtor and I am certainly seeing exactly what you are saying.

Oh, I just picked some blackberries (2nd crop has come out because of the mild weather) when out on a walk and then some raspberries from my garden. Sadly, the strawberries are pretty green and I only got one berry. :(

Eat your heart out those who don’t live on BC’s Southern Gulf Islands. :)
###################################

Im not a Realtor.
I just picked my second batch of of Blackberries a few days ago(recent mild weather). Had some nice strawberries this year too.

Eat your heart out those who don’t live in Ontarios Hamilton Central

Fred Funder

#78 maxx on 10.28.13 at 7:52 am

#23 jaguar on 10.27.13 at 8:58 pm

“It really is not that difficult to come up with these funds…….In their haste to become homeowners they get on the conveyor belt of debt, debt, debt. Getting on is easy. Getting off…..not so much.”

Very well said. Just received another email from a realtard for a bank repo.

Many more to come. The conveyor belt is crowded.

Poor Canada.

#79 Ann on 10.28.13 at 8:40 am

66 Tom from Mississauga on 10.28.13 at 12:46 am
Refusing to sell at a loss. Seen it. Colleague overpaid 100K for a 4Br house in Brampton in 2011. Tried to sell a year later for the same price. Crickets. Refuses to budge on ask, listing eventually came off the market.
.**
It’s not that they won’t drop the price and sell. They can’t if the homeowner bought with no money down or 5% with 2.5% C.M.H.C. fees and deduct 5% commission if they don’t get minimum of 10% more they would need to make up the shortfall with out of pocket cash, That’s not counting the original land transfer and legal fees.
They are hooped!

#80 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 10.28.13 at 9:18 am

@#73 nancy
japanese move to Richmond? nah .
They tried that 100 years ago and the Canadian govt eventually seized all their fishing boats in Steveston and deported them to Alberta…… WW2 and all that.

#81 Okotokian on 10.28.13 at 9:24 am

….I just picked some grapes and made them into ice-wine. I also picked up some frozen strawberries and made some cool smoothies. I also picked up some snow and made some cool, refreshing snowcones.

….eat your heart out if you don’t live in southern Alberta.

#82 Herb on 10.28.13 at 9:27 am

We’ve had a recent sale in our Britannia Village neighbourhood in Ottawa that must qualify for the Greater Fool Award.

The object was a dreamy-looking Victorian-era two-story cottage, normal-sized corner lot, not waterfront but with a restricted view of the water. The listing price was $649 K. We looked at it out of idle curiosity because the neighbour between the cottage and the lake was making nasty about restricting the view over his lot, putting up hoarding to make his point as well as a sign threatening forced removal of the windows on his side that he called illegal. (The City forced him to take down the hoarding, which he replaced immediately with a tightly-planted row of seven-foot trees.) Since the cottage is only about a foot from the property line fence, it did not strike us a promising situation.

Then we saw the inside: old, dark cottage, tiny principal and bedrooms, no closets, staircase you’d have a hard time moving furniture over, ‘50s kitchen and bathroom, low partial basement, decaying porch, garage you could not get a car into because someone had poured a foot-high concrete pad without providing a ramp, etc. In short, a tear-down that would leave an overprized $600+ K lot that wasn’t even on the water.

The property sold after about two weeks for $615 K, setting a new price point that will eagerly be seized upon for future listings. As long as fools like the new owners can play in the market, the bubble cannot deflate. I’m anxious to meet them to find out what they had in mind.

#83 jess on 10.28.13 at 9:32 am

theory of rats ?

BC case that could see condo owner evicted could become more common: expertsMontreal Gazette ‎- 2 hours ago
Currently, one in eight Canadian households lives in a condo, either as an owner or a renter, according to Statistics Canada, with condos …

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-014-x/99-014-x2011003_1-eng.cfm

#84 Infused with Opiates on 10.28.13 at 10:02 am

67 Victoria – how do you figure “buyers market conditions….. persist” when “prices are deep in bubble
territory”?

#85 Randman on 10.28.13 at 10:18 am

Wow!…this is such a great article …it needs to be shared…

The youth of the country consume themselves in techno-narcissistic triviality, barely looking up from their iGadgets long enough to make eye contact with other human beings. The toxic combination of government delivered public education, dumbed down socially engineered curriculum, taught by uninspired intellectually average union controlled teachers, to distracted, unmotivated, latchkey kids, has produced a generation of young people ignorant about history, basic mathematical concepts, and the ability or interest to read and write. They have been taught to feel rather than think critically. They have been programmed to believe rather than question and explore. Slogans and memes have replaced knowledge and understanding. They have been lured into inescapable student loan debt serfdom by the very same government that is handing them a $200 trillion entitlement bill and an economy built upon low paying service jobs that don’t require a college education, because the most highly educated members of society realized that outsourcing the higher paying production jobs to slave labor factories in Asia was great for the bottom line, their stock options and bonus pools.

Instead of being outraged and lashing out against this injustice, the medicated, daycare reared youth passively lose themselves in the inconsequentiality and shallowness of social media, reality TV, and the internet, while living in their parents’ basement. They have chosen the ignorance inflicted upon their brains by thousands of hours spent twittering, texting, facebooking, seeking out adorable cat videos on the internet, viewing racist rap singer imbeciles rent out sports stadiums to propose to vacuous big breasted sluts on reality cable TV shows, and sitting zombie-like for days with a controller in hand blowing up cities, killing whores, and murdering policemen using their new PS4 on their 65 inch HDTV, rather than gaining a true understanding of the world by reading Steinbeck, Huxley, and Orwell. Technology has reduced our ability to think and increased our ignorance.”

Talk about how people think…

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2013/10/27/culture-of-ignorance-part-one/

#86 Iconoclast on 10.28.13 at 10:33 am

#46 Joe -> Re: Fukashima refugees

Japan is becoming an economic, demographic, and now a radioactive wasteland. Fukashima was never contained, was never under control… As more people realize they are being lied to, watch for the trickle to turn into a flood. (My bet is that Tokyo 2020 doesn’t happen)

The old people aren’t going anywhere, but anyone young who wants to raise a family will be looking overseas. They can’t fill the empty cities in China; the Chinese hate them.

Canada has lots of room and less radiation. Japans tragedy could turn out to be a boon for Canada.

#87 Obvious Truth on 10.28.13 at 10:48 am

#71

If gentrification existed it would add more supply in market going lower.

For the last time. Houses cost money. And over the long term they cost big time. I own some. Stop with the I love you forever stuff. Save that for the humans around you and get your thinking cap on.

The river danile is turning. You won’t like what you see around the corner. It’s hard to imagine there is still a debate.

It’s always about price, flows and risk. 3 strikes for houses.

Can we please block anyone who uses the word gentrification to justify their loser so called investment in one of the armpits of toronto.

Maybe start with me. I’m nauseating myself. I’m off to buy stocks form poor people that can’t afford them anymore because they bought in 1940?

#88 Ralph Cramdown on 10.28.13 at 10:52 am

Good god, Randman. Maybe spend some time reading about those members of the ‘greatest’ generation and the boomers who didn’t score a double first in greats and history at Balliol…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working:_People_Talk_About_What_They_Do_All_Day_and_How_They_Feel_About_What_They_Do

#89 Bob on 10.28.13 at 10:54 am

Pending US home sales drop 5.6 percent in September, the lowest level in nine months.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101148285

#90 coastal on 10.28.13 at 11:06 am

Garth,

Just caught the last few minutes of you on BNN and you came across great. Why did I get the feeling the interviewer (in need of a serious makeover) was skeptical of your statements and needs to talk to the boys at CREA before she would render an opinion ? Can she not read the statements they’ve already put out there on number manipulation ? Another reason why I don’t put on BNN until the commodity show starts, she’s a blatant house pumper from way back.

#91 miketheenginer on 10.28.13 at 11:09 am

Interesting….everyone is in the same boat.

Getting screwed by the neighbour.

Last year most of my neighbours on our street were putting new shingles on their roofs. Since our was no different (ie in need of replacement), I gathered up 3 reasonable quotes, and approached my neighbour to replace our roof…he said…can’t do it this year, but for sure next summer we can do it…his roofer said it was good for 1 more year. Stupidly, I agreed, since it is cheaper if both owners of the semi do it at once. So 2013 rolls around…I gather up some quotes..now higher in price, select a good company and present the proposal to the neighbour. He now says, “no way” too expensive, I want to use the inexpensive guys, put a cheap roof on. I am pretty pissed off at this point and I award the job to “the good roofer”. Cost me 300 extra to go alone and about 300 more to get the better roofer and increased in material costs. Mind you I have a better shingle on the roof now, and a warranty that is transferrable to the next owner if I move.

So the guy besides me has “no money”. I talk with the other neighbour and ask him how he paid for his roof, and he said, with “da credit”, no cash….so we are 3 people, 3 for 3 that can’t come up with cash for a fairly low cost repair, ie re-shingle a roof.

Garth, people are at their limits…just another example of how “stretched” people are.

p.s. pieces of shingles were missing on the other guys side of the roof, and bare wood exposed….this can’t be good for the roofing materials (plywood) etc. And the roofer said, with 100% confidence that it would leak come spring, if not repaired/replaced. I hope they are wrong.

#92 young & foolish on 10.28.13 at 11:52 am

“People feel more comfortable in hard assets. Yet it seems all assets have seen unreasonable price appreciation. Being a saver doesn’t pay worth a darn, and buying assets is fraught with large risk for small return.”

Their instinct is essentially correct. Very few people ever get rich investing in the markets. Have you looked at most P/E ratios? Do they look any more realistic that future RE values? You are buying future earnings. So many here complain about the dubious stats from RE cartels, but do they not consider the manipulated balance sheets and management practices of publicly traded companies? Free markets? Forget it.

Most “liquid asset” people make their money instructing others on how to invest, or on earning fees. Liquid assets can turn out to be just that …. water slipping through your fingers. It’s why most DIY investors fail, and why most wealthy people own a lot of businesses and hard assets.

#93 Splork on 10.28.13 at 11:56 am

travelling the world lately and those smug d-bag attitudes of self righteous homeowners are being presented to the world. the ugly canadian has arrived.

#94 Godth on 10.28.13 at 12:00 pm

#85 Randman

You’ve just described our mid-fifties debtlords. “Don’t make me think”, “ignorance is bliss”, “property always goes up”. Unfortunately they’re not unique.

#86 Iconoclast

A real boon until reactor 4 collapses…as it currently stands holy melting starfish, yummy.

#95 Bob on 10.28.13 at 12:10 pm

This Developer likes downtown Toronto real estate:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Site+iconic+Toronto+store+Honest+sold+Vancouver+developer/9091707/story.html

#96 Victor V on 10.28.13 at 12:12 pm

Less housing sales ahead as seniors stay put

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/insight/less-housing-sales-ahead-seniors-stay-put-143945478.html

Forget Florida, moving into a cramped condo or that dreaded retirement residence; a great majority of Canadian Baby Boomers plan to stick it out in their own homes when they retire – even if that means paying for someone to come and take care of them.

A new poll by RBC says more than 80 per cent of retired and non-retired Boomers over age 50 would rather stay put as they age, findings which could have wide-sweeping implications for Canada’s housing market.

Most 8-year-olds also want a pony. — Garth

#97 Nemesis on 10.28.13 at 12:30 pm

HowPeopleThink is decidedly harder to fathom than WhatPeopleThink… especially where artists are concerned. Fortunately, we now know what the eponymous Banksy thinks about Canadian architecture.

SaltyDogz, your MondayMorningZen & Quote ‘O TheDay:

“That building is a disaster. Well, no… disasters are interesting. One World Trade Centre is a non-event. It looks like something they would build in Canada.” – Banksy

[UK Independent] – Banksy claims new World Trade Center is a ‘disaster’

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/banksy-claims-new-world-trade-center-is-a-disaster-and-shows-the-terrorists-won-8908957.html

#98 TnT on 10.28.13 at 12:37 pm

#85 Randman

*******

Hey old dude… were you shaking your fist in the air during that rant?

When photography first came about people were scared that it may be capturing their soul.

Young people are born with a techno gadget in their hand. Their brains are permanently wired to co-exist with technology. To equate that to being ignorant and anti-social is just old generational thinking. They are just ignorant and socially disconnected from you.. to their peers they are bright and connected.. online…

You just realized you are a past generation….

#99 Godth on 10.28.13 at 12:59 pm

#98 TnT

They don’t call it transhumanism by accident. Next stop – post humanism to go with post post modernism which is a prelude for annihilation.
Oh to dream a cartesian dream…the whole world is a machine and yet the sum is still greater than the parts. Ooohh… we’ll figure it out yet or go crazy measuring the world of effects trying to master causes that are and aren’t at once.

#100 recharts on 10.28.13 at 1:05 pm

You are too shallow to understand more than the 1$ food McDonald’s “philosophy”.
Read “The Shallows:What…” I am sure you will find the title and the author. I highly doubt that you will get the message.
Your comment below puts you in the context. Now I fully understand you.

#98 TnT on 10.28.13 at 12:37 pm
#85 Randman

*******

Hey old dude… were you shaking your fist in the air during that rant?

When photography first came about people were scared that it may be capturing their soul.

Young people are born with a techno gadget in their hand. Their brains are permanently wired to co-exist with technology. To equate that to being ignorant and anti-social is just old generational thinking. They are just ignorant and socially disconnected from you.. to their peers they are bright and connected.. online…

You just realized you are a past generation….

#101 timothy rambler on 10.28.13 at 1:12 pm

The Temporary Bubble?

“The Canadian government has no plans to clamp down for now on the housing market even though housing prices are rising again, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said on Monday. But he pledged to investigate if a temporary bubble was forming.”

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-wont-clamp-down-now-160216425.html

#102 Blacksheep on 10.28.13 at 1:24 pm

#71 Multiple Offers on 10.26.13 at 6:45 am
#25 Multiple Offers on 10.27.13 at 8:59 pm

“All you low-ball sillies, you’re not really helping!!”

“That’s right, all that’s ever really needed by the trickster-agent are only two interested parties and his own creations of a demand which he get’s from a little help from his friends. If the two interested parties show great enthusiasm for the area the show begins & goes
& where it ends, nobody knows!!!”

“I’ll bet that if someone ever investigated the trickster-agent,”

“the investigator would discover that the same names appeared over & over on many of his successful sales!”
———————————————–
So what your saying is:

The RE agents friends can / do act as ‘Interested parties’ causing the Cattle to get in to a bidding wars?

How is my 30% below market (low-ball) offer used or affect the above actions, as you clearly point out, my offer (price irrelevant) is not needed as the RE agent just uses friends?

Your comments, tells me one of two things:

1) You really didn’t think your comments through before posting (doubtful, since posted twice)

2) The volume of low-ball offers has increased to the point, that at least one RE agent felt compelled to post repeatedly, hoping to confuse the buying Cattle, into full price offers.

Here is how I deal with this issue:

A) Tell listing agent, no offer will be made, if there is any other offers in play.

B) Tell listing agent, If there is currently other offers, call us only if, they fall through.

C) Tell listing agent, if a new offer comes in while in negotiations, I’m walking.

D) Offer what ever price you want, as there is lots of homes for sale.

Trickster-Agent indeed.

#103 Waterloo Resident on 10.28.13 at 1:25 pm

Okay everybody, here’s how to get RICH and live your life as a rich man:

Understand that it is the RICH in America that controls the government, not the people. As a result, the government does whatever is necessary to make the lives of the wealthy ‘more’ wealthy. A good case in point was the fact that the income tax levels for the rich have been cut back over the years from 90% to around 30% today (in the U.S.), while the average citizen pays even more than that on a percentage basis.

Since most of the rich own companies, or stocks in companies, professional lobby groups influence the government to do whatever is necessary to make companies MORE profitable. The result is that the stock market goes up.

So if you are a smart guy you realize that the U.S. government is now basically doing whatever is necessary to PUSH UP the stock market to record highs. The only way to win in this game is to invest fully in S&P ETFs. And two of the best ETF’s are 3-times the S&P, these being: SPXL and UPRO .

This is what I read in a millionaire’s magazine; “How to live one’s life as a rich man”:

Lesson 1 – One cannot live on bread alone, similarly once a person reaches a certain level of wealth they should learn to enjoy a small part of it while investing the majority of it on accumulating assets.

When a man’s cash savings reaches that magical $1 MILLION DOLLAR level, he should buy a nice house, preferably in nice part of town. ( Cash savings is equal to one’s levels of cash on hand, PLUS the value of ones’ stock portfolio holdings, both of which are very ‘LIQUID’.)

At this $1 Million level, a man should buy a house that is valued at 25% of what he has in cash savings, placing 25% down ( $1Mil savings = buy a $250K house with $63K down).

When the man’s cash savings doubles, he should sell the current house and ‘MOVE UP’ to a new one.

Lesson 2 – With automobiles one must remember that they are NOT an investment, they are only a tool to get around in. Starting at $1 Million a man should buy a NEW car that is no more than 5% of his cash savings, and trade that car for a new one whenever his cash savings rises by 50%.

Lesson 3 – As for marriage: If a man is seeking a partner, he should make sure that her net worth is no less than 50% of his own, otherwise she is a liability that should be avoided at all possible costs. If a man wants a ‘trophy wife’ he should remember that the Tiger Woods / Elin Nordegren scandal has created a new trend amongst the elite, where the trophy wife has now been replaced by the ‘trophy girlfriend’, as this does not result in massive financial losses when the wife gets ‘bored’ of the husband and decide to move on to something bigger and better.

#104 TurnerNation on 10.28.13 at 1:48 pm

This pathetic blog made G&M’s print edition.
I can see F screaming at H ‘I thought you got rid of him!’
H says, I try and disrupt as josef.

#105 Alberta Ed on 10.28.13 at 1:49 pm

Hard to see where Flaherty, Mr. 40-year-mortgage/0% down, has any credibility whatsoever when it comes to housing bubbles.

#106 Old Man on 10.28.13 at 1:55 pm

I for one believe that for a young couple to make their first home buy they need to document a key location; waiting until the time is right; and purchase an older home to renovate over time as a longterm project with some of it that they can do together. The newer homes on the market are junk thrown up, and the same goes for cars too.

Last Friday morning had a terrible experience, as took out my winter car for a trip to the bank early which is a bit old in mint condition for some USD, as was off later for a mini trip. So was lined up on two lanes of cars waiting for the green light, and some old lady must have popped her clutch or fell asleep, as she hit my car hard throwing me several feet forward; if I had gone into a panic mode would have hit the car in front as had to double brake quickly.

I had no time for this all, so drove to my destination thinking that the damage was going to cost me, but would not make an insurance claim either, as would make good in the dark; never made a claim in my life, so keep it that way for low car insurance that comes in about $800.00 a year. I took one look and not even a scratch with that hard hit, so my old bumper did me well. I saw her in my mirror, and these old women need to be taken off the road for public safety, or had she had a few early morning drinks? All is well!

#107 Bobby on 10.28.13 at 2:09 pm

For # 67 Victoria Real Estate Update,

You are indeed correct, it is a buyers market here in Victoria. I have been out looking at condos and town houses. Lots for sale, many have been on the market forever and lots are empty.
Many of the sellers are hoping to recoup what they originally paid and any realtor commission. Sadly, for most it won’t happen as the market has fallen significantly.
One older realtor said it is indeed a buyers market and that sellers will have to price their properties more realistically. Many of the newer realtors say jump in as the units are selling quickly. Duh, but when you ask why it has been on the market for 4 months you get that 10,000 mile stare.
Yes, it is really ugly out there!

#108 Ralph Cramdown on 10.28.13 at 2:38 pm

#100 recharts — Read “The Shallows:What…”

Hey, thanks for the cryptic partial cite. I was able to figure out what you were referring to, discovered the original article in The Atlantic which the author apparently managed to stretch into a book. I skimmed the article and some of the blurbs and reviews for the book. Nice try, and I’m sure the medium does rewire us. But if the object is study and progress rather than contemplation and navel gazing, I’ll not go back. I carry a million Libraries of Alexandria around with me in my pocket. It exponentially changes the speed at which billions of us collaborate, learn and progress. The woods are lovely, dark and deep, and I’m sure riding a horse through them would provide contemplative time for the soul. But I’ve promises to keep before I sleep, so I’ll take the train.

#109 TheCatFoodLady on 10.28.13 at 2:45 pm

#96 Victor V: I’ll echo what Garth answered to your post – I read & referenced the same article a few days ago. That unicorn cavorting in a field of rainbows fantasy is going to be crushed… hard.

This is the same group of boomers that have squat saved for retirement & may have pretty penurious pensions. Will they at least have their mortgages paid off when they retire? Data reproduced on this blog & well reported indicates many won’t. Personal debt loads will be high for many.

Now, let’s pay mortgage, taxes, maintenance, normal costs of living on a reduced income, debt repayment and… where in Hades does money for care come from?

Dealing with a sad situation with elderly neighbours right now. A year ago, they were fine. He was mobile, could drive, although he was getting more frail. She was a bundle of energy. A year later, he can’t get out of his chair. His hands are crippled with arthritis – he can’t cut food, although can feed himself; can’t open a bread bag, can or anything else. He can’t dress himself. Her mind is gone.

HE would qualify for 2 hours of home care a day but how do you do that when you might need a drink now, a urinal half an hour from now, help with a sweater a bit later… She increasingly needs supervision he cannot provide.

They were okay financially when they were in better shape – not a ton of money but enough to get by. No longer. He’s just gone into respite care for a few weeks – he says – while her children have brought her home for ‘a vacation’. He imagines that break will bring her mind back. Nope. The retirement home he’s in for now doesn’t provide much in the line of care.

Home care over & above his provincial allocation would run what – $25-40/hour? I don’t know going rates. Their overly full, dusty apartment needs several hours of cleaning help a week – minimum $12.50/hour. And this is today, at today’s local rates which aren’t high compared to larger urban areas.

I don’t want to think what this kind of ‘home care’ is going to cost 10-20 years from now. Who is going to provide it? This is traditionally low paying work & classed as fairly low skilled. Home care NURSING isn’t but there’s already little continuity in staffing, too many patients per visiting nurse & that can only get worse.

Boomers sitting on equity need to take a hard look at their money. Unless they’re sitting on a honking big pile of well diversified & producing investments on top of home equity, they’re screwed.

And those investments? At some point, earnings may flatten somewhat as wrinklies start looking for security rather than growth.

Long term thinking – priceless.

#110 Shawn on 10.28.13 at 3:17 pm

CAN YOU GET RICH IN THE MARKETS?

Young and Foolish says (without evidence)

Very few people ever get rich investing in the markets.

******************************************
As one who is older and wiser I do know htat there is no excuse not to eventully get rich in the markets. Anyone who started investing in the period 1978 to about 1995 should have gotten pretty wealthy by now.

Those who started in 2009 are off to a freat start…

I don’t have any evidence about how many people are getting rich in the markets.

I know the money I invested at the start of this year is up 28% and the money I invested at the start of 1989 is up 1804%.

The Money that people invested in Berkshire Hathaway in 1965 is up about one million percent. A 10,000 bagger!

#111 TnT on 10.28.13 at 3:24 pm

#100 recharts

You are too shallow to understand more than the 1$ food McDonald’s “philosophy”.
Read “The Shallows:What…” I am sure you will find the title and the author. I highly doubt that you will get the message.
Your comment below puts you in the context. Now I fully understand you.

#98 TnT on 10.28.13 at 12:37 pm
#85 Randman

***************

Ouch.. your words of wit once again cuts me to the core…. you harboring anger still?

And… Nicholas Carr is wrong, and all it took was a quick scan via Google using my superior technologically trained brain to see it…

Hey.. Want any fries with that?

#112 Entrepreneur on 10.28.13 at 3:26 pm

#61 KommyKim: So quick to judge!

Sold our fish to a fish buyer and they did not recognize wives in the seventies but in the middle 80’s it all changed. Wives were finally accepted and paperwork exchanged.

It was not just me but other fisher women too.

#113 jess on 10.28.13 at 3:37 pm

HSBC exposed in massive data leak in Belgium

2,450 HSBC clients in Geneva, and their 3,137 bank files
http://www.icij.org/blog/2013/10/hsbc-exposed-massive-data-leak-belgium

http://www.tijd.be/dossier/krant/Het_complot_van_HSBC_tegen_de_Belgische_schatkist.9424649-2972.art

#114 Old Man on 10.28.13 at 3:40 pm

Mr. Turner has pointed out that the Real Estate developers across Canada, and the cartel controls the message, and look at Mike Duffy who has the courage to speak out in the Senate, and will quote “Are we all independent Senators or puppets? He is in effect attacking Caesar and his office of clowns called the PMO; gee love an old man who can kick ass, and in my book he rocks.

#115 Smoking Man on 10.28.13 at 4:18 pm

Who the hell introduced the Fat Lady to weight watchers.

F in the financial post, says he’s worried about the spike in prices but he won’t interfere, he also said the bank of Canada can not spike rates……

What do you think the herd will do when Petet Mansbridge tells then that tonight.

Basement Dwellers, it’s going to be a long haul……..

#116 Spiltbongwater on 10.28.13 at 4:25 pm

#114 Old Man on 10.28.13 at 3:40 pm

I disagree with you about Mike Duffy. If I am following correctly, he attempted to hide his inappropriate expenses with money provided from The CPC in February. Now that this scandal has been opened up he is trying to save face by throwing all his friends (who cut him cheques for his theft) under the bus, and for this he is seeing as an old man who can kick ass? Duffy should be the one having his ass kicked, out of the senate, and into a courtroom for accepting the bribes provided by the CPC. We can deal with PM Harper and his mistrust at a later date, but calling a spade a shovel, Duffy is a liar and a thief.

#117 Ralph Cramdown on 10.28.13 at 4:31 pm

#92 young & foolish — “Their instinct is essentially correct. Very few people ever get rich investing in the markets.”

True. But very few people get rich investing in anything. Very few people get rich, period.

You can grow wealth in the financial markets just as you can grow wealth with income properties: Hard work, patience, ruthless cost control, judicious use of leverage and enough capital to start with. Do the math on Garth’s 7% per year claim, and discover that you can be a nominal dollar millionaire — all you have to is start with $125k today and wait thirty years. Add a few years for taxes if in a non-registered account.

You can get rich quickly in the financial markets just as you can with income properties: Too much leverage and concentration, a bull market and luck.

Most people don’t have the patience and fortitude to see their money grow slowly, and not always monotonically, over a long period of time. They don’t have the brains to buy value, so they get sold garbage. They don’t have the self-control to save a good fraction of their earnings year in and year out and build a legacy for their descendants, nor the luck to inherit one from similarly minded parents. This is the human condition. If it was easy, we’d all be doing it, and we’d all be ‘rich.’ But since wealth is a relative thing, we can’t all be rich.

#118 Nosty in Knickersville on 10.28.13 at 4:31 pm

#85 Randman on 10.28.13 at 10:18 am — Smoking Man was correct all along. Good post.

#119 recharts on 10.28.13 at 4:34 pm

@ralph crmdown
The cook uses the knife to cook, the killer uses the knife to kill. Same knife.
That’s about technology.

The article is insufficient. Read the book.
Pay attention to the concept of deep thinking and the effect of information overload.
Your reaction looks exactly like the reaction of every person who excessively uses internet for documenting and prefers to read articles instead of reading books. It is exactly the case described by the author in the book: we tend to skim the information, we become very good at FINDING the information but we become more stupid (seriously) . Our capacity to create, to come up with new ideas, new paradigms, our evolution by going from quantity to a new quality by synthesizing the existing info is being stopped

Again …read the book.

PS: the guy just said it in a easily digestible way but the neuroscientist knew it and prove it some time ahead.
Some like to believe that the new generations are better because the are so much used to technology. Nothing wrong with that if they are educated to filter the information they process and if they are educated to focus. The book abounds in examples. Again ..read it, don’t be shallow.

@TnT
you just proved my point: shallow.

#120 Godth on 10.28.13 at 5:02 pm

#108 Ralph Cramdown

Yes, otium is so odious in a world of self important trivialities.
The train? How steampunk for a parishioner in the church of progress. We’re all digital now 001.

#121 coastal on 10.28.13 at 5:43 pm

So Clump has to deny the number manipulation job by claiming Garth is calling for a market crash. I’ve never heard you say that Garth, sounds like law suit potential to me. Not to mention the “no bubble” mantra, but then Clump claims Vancouver is under ten year averages right ? Averages of what ? Insanity ? LOL

#122 live within your means on 10.28.13 at 5:47 pm

There’s a really bad virus going around.

check out:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9243537/Cryptolocker_How_to_avoid_getting_infected_and_what_to_do_if_you_are_

#123 TnT on 10.28.13 at 6:02 pm

#117 recharts

@TnT
you just proved my point: shallow.

**************

Bummer you failed to see the irony of my carefully chosen words “quick scan”, “google” and “technologically trained brain” or the humorous rebuttal of “Want any fries with that”…

Come on… we are now on Generation Z… get with the program.

#124 Squatter on 10.28.13 at 6:10 pm

My answer to those who pretend that using internet makes people stupid:

If you are stupid, you will do stupid stuff on the internet and remain stupid.

If you are intelligent, you will do intelligent things on the internet and use it as a tool.
For example, you can come to this web site, go to the gold bugs’ web sites and decide yourself which ideas make more sense.

#125 live within your means on 10.28.13 at 6:38 pm

#31 JimmyAAA on 10.27.13 at 9:31

A sis & others used to send me stuff – I always checked it on Snopes.com & told them to check it out before they sent these ‘unbelieveable’ emails. It took them a long time before they’d check it out.

#126 LH on 10.28.13 at 6:40 pm

BREAKING NEWS

The row house on Belmont in upper yorkville just SOLD for 1.195 million, just hours after being featured on Garth Turner’s blog. Less than original ask of 1.24 and a 5k less than revised asking of 1.2 but certainly not considerably less. Mr Market speaks again and the state of the SFH market downtown is strong.

As if there were any doubt… Just a cursory look at global comparables like Sydney, Melbourne, and the equivalent parts of London and New York (Brooklyn?) and it is clear that walkable, close to transportation (ideally subway), mixed zoning or close to commercial strips like Queen or Bloor, and located in a large and dense English speaking city in a safe and wealthy country with easy immigration: this represent more than a rare commodity in great demand, it is the very embodiment of THE GOOD LIFE in the 21st century. For those who don’t get it, just look at the Sydney Sorry Hills house. For those who missed the boat, my condolences.

LH

The house was listed for $1,300,000, then reduced to $1,240,000, and sold for $1,195,000. That’s a 10% drop in 60 days. Yeah, real strong market. — Garth

#127 Ed Bear on 10.28.13 at 6:47 pm

I work with tons of kids from the internet generation. Some of them are brilliant, with bright futures and minds that can run circles around my own. Others are hard-working, sensible, and reliable. Some fraction are plebs who will watch endless singing contests on TV and spend all of their time texting one another without a thought in their heads.

In my humble opinion, I see all of these types in about the same proportions as any other generation before them.

#128 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 10.28.13 at 7:09 pm

@#119 recharts and Randman

Dont waste your time arguing with TnT.

Its all the Boomers fault and generation x,y and z will fix everything….. Hopefully I’ll be long dead when they turn on the “fix-it” machine.

Does generation A2 come after generation Z?

#129 Old Man on 10.28.13 at 7:20 pm

#116 Spilt – give me a break as your major premise is wrong, as Trudeau hit the right button by asking Caesar to an legal oath under the Law, which can be done several ways with a PM. Now as for Mike Duffy he is kicking ass, and respect him for this all. I will tell you why, as he had no reason to do such, but he had a conscience, and said in his heart FO to them all.

#130 Realtors are scum on 10.28.13 at 7:27 pm

The government has to do something to regulate these criminals . Why didn’t CBC have you to interview when that idiot from CREA was on the news sounding shaky . I wish there was someone there to make him look stupid. The lazy socialist CONservatives need to do something. CONSERVATIVES = socialism for the rich.

#131 Realtors are scum on 10.28.13 at 7:29 pm

Smokingman you are an uneducated realtor . I would trust a liar and a thief over a realtor.

#132 jess on 10.28.13 at 7:41 pm

Pension

http://truth-out.org/news/item/19672-pension-theft-crime-wave

http://www.retirementheist.com/excerpts/

http://erisapensionclaims.com/CIGNA/
http://www.pionline.com/article/20130624/REG/130629945/settlement-reached-in-cigna-401k-suit#

Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.’s
http://www.pbgc.gov/documents/2012-annual-report.pdf#page=2

#133 TurnerNation on 10.28.13 at 8:00 pm

Since it was mentioned earlier I found it online. The MOAB has been dropped:

http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip1032334

#134 Ronaldo on 10.28.13 at 8:04 pm

#117 Ralph Cramdown

”….all you have to is start with $125k today and wait thirty years.”

That’s a long time to wait to become a millionaire. Son started with 22,000 at age 22 and had a net worth of 1 million by 30. Not done in the markets but by investing in himself and the natural skills he possessed. Many young people out there can do this as well if they have the burning desire to do it.

#135 Mike T on 10.28.13 at 8:07 pm

#114 Old Man

I agree with you Mr Old Man.

The irony is something Sophocles and Oedipus would be proud of

oh the dbl entendres are killing me

#136 Steve French on 10.28.13 at 8:27 pm

I’m jonesing for my next dose of “Greater Fool” .

Yes , I’m an addict.

Where’s the next instalment?

Garth dude… hit us up man….

#137 Smoking Man on 10.28.13 at 8:32 pm

#131 Realtors are scum on 10.28.13 at 7:29 pm
Smokingman you are an uneducated realtor . I would trust a liar and a thief over a realtor.
…………………………………………………….
LaughingCon your going to hate my next post

#138 Daisy Mae on 10.28.13 at 8:53 pm

#45 [email protected]: “from crea website…
‘The information contained in this report has been prepared by The Canadian Real Estate Association drawn from sources deemed to be reliable, but the accuracy and completeness of the information is not guaranteed. In providing this information, The Canadian Real Estate Association does not assume any responsibility or liability.’ Is such a disclaimer even legal?”

*****************

I’d say “Nice try”.

#139 Kleebold on 10.28.13 at 9:06 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVH8yVX3E1A

This video sums up the Vancouver scam market. Vancouver is a complete sham. Watch this video and learn how suckers are born. What major industry exists anywhere in Scamcouver. Nothing. Period. That’s what we call a scam market.

#140 Paul on 10.28.13 at 9:06 pm

#131 Realtors are scum on 10.28.13 at 7:29 pm
Smokingman you are an uneducated realtor . I would trust a liar and a thief over a realtor.
**********************************
Man it must burn your ass that he is so dumb yet smarter than you lol

#141 Herb on 10.28.13 at 9:35 pm

#129 Old Man,

Duffy “had no reason to do such, but he had a conscience …”

You’re not that old, Old Man, but you sure are senile.

#142 Tony on 10.28.13 at 9:40 pm

Taking your house off the market doesn’t accomplish much except prolonging the inevitable price decline for the seller. Asking prices are still slashed and listings rot on mls.

#143 Old Man on 10.28.13 at 9:45 pm

#141 Herb – you must be a troll working for Caesar, but he don’t pay enough to hoop me in life, so saddle up with Reform and head back to Alberta to rope some cows, or hit a bar and get drunk with a moose.

#144 fisheman on 10.28.13 at 10:27 pm

Squatter, This site & few gold bug sites are part of my daily read. I don’t make a judgement as to either one other than I like them both because they reflect what has ben my primary hobbies for decades (Van west side R/E & Maples) I went all in on Maples at C$500 & laddered up till they were C$1000. Considering that was 10 years ago not that great a return. I still like playing in west side R/E game but since time is running out I always want to go the front of the line. It helps to drop a heavy,shiny maple, that dull,clinking sound is even better, into the waiting calloused paw of a plumber,refrigeration/gas man,carpenter,machinist,electrician,cement man,backhoe guy, garbageman, steelworker,roofer,tile man, floor guy. So there is a use for that shiny ridiculous metal after all. Of course the trick is to know which paw has the best man under it.

#145 Edward on 10.28.13 at 11:10 pm

When I moved into my apartment I heard the story told about a couple who purchased a pre constriction condo intending to live in it or flip it. When at closing the found they could not afford to live there, they tried to sell it. They could. They rented out at 1600 with costs of 1700. The stay in a rental in my appartment and pay 1200. So essentially they pay 1300 to ren in an old buildingt, subsidizing others 100 to live in their nee building.

#146 Snake on 10.29.13 at 5:24 am

When I moved into my apartment I heard the story told about a couple They rented out at 1600 with costs of 1700. The stay in a rental in my appartment and pay 1200. So essentially they pay 1300 to ren in an old buildingt, subsidizing others 100 to live in their nee building.

——————————

whats wrong with subsidizing $100 a month( 100 *12*25=30,000)after somebody else pay most of their mortgage they will a house to own after retirement.

#147 Yo on 10.29.13 at 10:30 am

I actually suspect another reason for low listings is that many people unlike in the old days…actually have huge lines of credit on their houses. I know a friend who owns a house worth say $900K, has a $300K mortgage but kept on spending on the credit line (and then tacking it on the mortgage)…now the debt on the house is $600K. I tell him to sell, and one of the things he says that causes not to sell is that all his credit lines will be gone. Its also I think the sad realization that if the sold and paid all the debt, he will have to explain how come his $900K house only gave him $300K in cash.