For better or worse

GRUMPY

Greg and Linda are married three years now. Kayla’s 18 months. Own a semi together mid-town. I think they love each other, but that’s just from watching across the table. Eye contact between them. How they sit. A small touch of fingers. You can tell.

But while they’ve indelibly meshed their lives, and created another life along the way, they’ve never become intimate with their money.

“What’s the problem?” I asked.

The answer is always the same. “We just never got around to it. This is the way we were when we got married, you know. We just contribute to a joint household account and keep our own stuff separate.”

But that’s usually code. In the back of most minds lurks the dark possibility a spouse, however beloved, may someday walk out. People seem willing to give of their hearts, trust and time, but not of their cash. It’s sad. We’re one screwed-up society.

Being married affords investing and tax advantages. Keeping wholly separate portfolios usually means people pay more to the feds than is required. It almost always results in overlap and duplication, hurting returns and exaggerating risk. More than that, it can rob a couple of unity of purpose and direction. It erects a wall of non-confidence. Secrecy. A key part of life unshared with the one person you most depend upon.

Not only does this decision have emotional consequences, but in most parts of the country (most notably except Quebec) it’s misguided. Family law legislation blends most marital assets, so in the event of a breakdown there’s an equalization payment.

That means the house, the cottage, the cars, the bank account, the RRSPs and TFSAs, the individual investment accounts, the furniture, the pooch and your secret gambling/infidelity fund – they are all thrown into the pot. After debts, the spouse with the smaller net worth gets an equalization payment. (Excluded are inheritances acquired after marriage, insurance settlements or payments, or things itemized in a pre-nup.)

In other words, if your babe walks out, she doesn’t get to keep her fat RRSP while you inherit the mortgage. Family law legislation also means most couples are probably better off having a joint investment account than two separate ones. That way they can integrate their money to build a nice diversified and balanced portfolio that isn’t filled with a mess of contradictory mutual funds. They can also avoid having him plow his cash into high-risk junior mining stocks while she opts for a 5-year GIC- an overall strategy destined to fail.

Better still, if she gets abducted by aliens or he’s shot on the streetcar, all the money in a joint account flows to the other person without legalities or delay. As a bonus, you can income-split the investment proceeds. And the greatest benefit is more transparency and certainty between you on what you have, what your progress amounts to, whether or not you can afford that insanely-priced house, or if you can ever afford to retire.

Beyond that, couples can income-split within registered vehicles. A high-flying wife can fully fund her husband’s TFSA ($25,500 at the moment), allowing him to earn tax-free returns instead of having it taxed at her marginal rate. A husband who’s the chief breadwinner can channel all his RRSP contributions into a spousal plan, so he gets to claim the tax deductions, while she gets the money – cashable after three years at her own rate, which may well be zero.

And as far as debt goes, it’s just dumb for one spouse to be shouldering a pile of student loans at 5% while the other, risk-averse person dicks around with a high-interest savings account paying a taxable 2%. Just chunk the cash against the (non-deductible) debt, and improve the financial strength of your family unit.

In a world full of volatility, rapacious realtors, bloodsucking bank employees, market and interest rate risk, your brother-in-law, tapering, house lust and advisors who are salesguys in drag, you need a true friend and ally. Who better than the one you sleep with?

See what a romantic I am?

150 comments ↓

#1 Bob on 08.18.13 at 8:44 pm

Finally – first

#2 Dean Mason on 08.18.13 at 8:49 pm

We are all married to the CRA paying installments or not.

#3 Mike on 08.18.13 at 8:50 pm

I have always pictured you as a hopeless romantic Garth LOL

#4 Nemesis on 08.18.13 at 8:51 pm

Truly art thou a romantic fool, AuldPol… Even if the numbers work better.

That’s why the Amazons love ya, you know. And doubtless some of us.

For my part, I set the RadioTelescope’s transponder to saturate the FrequencySpectrum… but ET wasn’t fooled and I subsequently had to deal with things ‘OldSchool’.

Fortunately, my solicitors were better than hers.

#5 First! on 08.18.13 at 8:56 pm

Finally got it!

#6 Shawn on 08.18.13 at 8:57 pm

On the Other hand…

We’ve been married 21 years. No joint accounts of any kind. She works (government job) and spends that money as she sees fit and covers the groceries, her and the kids cloths, and gifts and her gasoline.

She does not waste money but still it tends to get spent. Two teenagers can explain a lot of that.

I pay the bills and fund most of her RRSP and TSFA.

I fund my RRSP and TSFA as well. Also the RESP. With big RRSPs and two pensions to look forward to we don’t need non-registered savings.

I speak nothing about investments except to brag periodically if the stocks are up.

She knows the investments have done well.

This works for us. To each their own.

#7 totalinvestor.com on 08.18.13 at 8:57 pm

“Some people ask the secret of our long marriage. We take time to go to a restaurant two times a week. A little candlelight, dinner, soft music and dancing. She goes Tuesdays, I go Fridays.” Henny Youngman

#8 Geane on 08.18.13 at 8:59 pm

Am I first?
Yahooooooooo
Very informative post, thank you.
Today is my wedding anniversary, 13 years, 2 kids.
We got rid of our big house, it was killing us. We paid our debts and we learned our lesson.
Freedom first!!!

#9 George J. on 08.18.13 at 9:00 pm

first

#10 ILoveCharts on 08.18.13 at 9:00 pm

I’ve been hunting for a condo in the Greater Vancouver area. Based on the garbage buildings I am seeing on the west coast, here is my prediction for a news story for five years from now:

Aug 18, 2018 in some piece of main-stream media (if they still exist):

*********************************
Boom decade was a lost opportunity

Real estate in Vancouver went through boom-times in the first decade of this century. Billions(?) were invested by developers to construct dwellings of all types. Fueled by cheap credit and lax mortgage lending rules, consumers bought them up as fast as they could be built.

What’s amazing is that the market had such confidence in a region that had been so savagely burned by the leaky-condo crisis. Rain-screening solved the particular issue that led to the leaky condo crisis but it didn’t address the true root-causes that plagued the industry. The building code remained overly complex and woefully inadequate. City inspectors continued to be under-resourced and were never held accountable by taxpayers. Most importantly though: Consumers didn’t raise their standards with rising prices. As prices sky-rocketed, consumers bought granite counter-tops and stainless steel appliances while ignoring the large deficiencies in the construction of the buildings themselves.

Unfortunately, the government wasn’t able to protect consumers from themselves until it was too late. In 2013, it became law that every strata (unless they voted to exclude themselves,) would require a depreciation report. This document provides prospective home-owners with a realistic look at what type of maintenance and capital projects will be required in the building in the years to come. In 2016, the government passed an additional law that every owner of a unit in a building will be provided with access to all of the drawings, designs and equipment-lists, for a building upon the initial sale and every transaction that follows. In 2017, an additional law was passed that requires developers to measure the interior noise and air quality in every individual unit with the windows open and with the windows closed; all but putting an end to the practice of building units beside freeways with no central air circulation systems. As a result of these changes and the slowing real-estate market, developers are no longer building to meet the minimum requirements of the code. They are now trying to sell to a consumer who is just as concerned about the quality of the boiler in the basement, the thickness of the walls between the units and the ability to get a comfortable night’s sleep without ear-plugs, as they are about the colour of the appliances in the kitchen.

Of course, it’s arguable that the the new laws aren’t really necessary. Everyone who has witnessed the pain of a friend or family member who bought during the first decade is now going into the purchasing process with a more discerning eye for the details. Across the region, strata fees have sky-rocketed as the owners of today pay for the shortcuts made by developers yesterday. Although the systemic leaky-condo issues have been solved, a host of other envelope issues have arisen as a result of rushed construction and poor attention to quality. Concrete buildings were considered safe but now owners find themselves chasing cracks as nearly unsustainable rates. On the other hand, the relentless west-coast rain will eventually reveal all of the defects in wood-frame buildings. Deep in the basement and high on the rooftop, stratas find themselves replacing building systems that were clearly chosen on the basis of price instead of reliability. Strata fees have doubled for many owners and property prices have plummeted.

Unfortunately, this mess isn’t going away anytime soon. Despite the issues, this building stock is expected to stand for another 50 years at least. The secret is out and people from around the world are hesitant to move to the region. As a result of the challenges in relocating world-class talent, corporations are also hesitant to set up shop here. We had an opportunity to build a solid foundation on which our region could grow. Instead, we find ourselves tied to an anchor, dragging us down and preventing the region from reaching its full potential.
*********************************

#11 FB on 08.18.13 at 9:04 pm

Yes Garth it’s true that we are different in Québec, unfrtunately not always for the best…

Mariage % is at a low, it’s sad… My opinion.

#12 Seven Stars and Orion on 08.18.13 at 9:06 pm

This may be the post that convinces her. Thanks a lot.

#13 Unbalanced on 08.18.13 at 9:07 pm

The younger people today tend to blame the boomers for everything. Maybe they should look,listen and take a page out of the book titled “The Old Days”. We shared.

#14 Renter in Markham on 08.18.13 at 9:07 pm

Garth Special Thanks for this topic…

#15 Dr. Wanker on 08.18.13 at 9:08 pm

When are we going to Miami ??

#16 Edmonton Condo Owner on 08.18.13 at 9:11 pm

Very thought provoking post. Although I, and certainly not my wife would entirely consider your post ‘romantic’, it does ra

#17 Mocha on 08.18.13 at 9:12 pm

“People seem willing to give of their hearts, trust and time, but not of their cash. It’s sad. We’re one screwed-up society…”

Speaking as a younger and unmarried guy who is aware of how the court system often works against men financially in the event of divorce, it doesn’t surprise me to see men being more secretive with their wealth. Yes, we are a screwed up society. What’s the incentive for a man to want to get married? Could someone please remind me?

#18 pat on 08.18.13 at 9:15 pm

Yes tru

#19 Edmonton Condo Owner on 08.18.13 at 9:16 pm

…this is why one shouldn’t post from smart phones with fat fingers.

… It does raise good arguments why fleeting trust and especially greed have no place in a relationship, if you would like that relationship to be healthy. And your financially situation to be healthy as well for that matter.

Thanks for the post.

#20 jan on 08.18.13 at 9:17 pm

Last,
To the housing orgy, that is…LOL

#21 Questions on 08.18.13 at 9:21 pm

Panty wetter

#22 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.18.13 at 9:22 pm

awwww… and it’s not even Valentine’s Day.

#23 Exilled on 08.18.13 at 9:27 pm

Mr Turner: Yes, but try to convince the other half that you didn’t marry her for her money! P.S. I paid all her commitments off, after the honeymoon!

#24 Jay the pilot on 08.18.13 at 9:27 pm

Nice read Garth!

#25 Freedom First on 08.18.13 at 9:31 pm

Great article Garth!

I am amazed too, how many couples get married without being aware of their mates financial situation. The #’s are startling. Their can be 1, or sometimes, even both of them in dire financial problems. The time to find out everything about your SO is BEFORE the marriage. That there is so much deception in what Garth is talking about, really goes far in explaining the fact that finances/money problems is the #1 cause of divorce. Oh, and when it comes to financial problems, house lust is right up there, as when job losses/financial problems lead to foreclosure, divorce is usually not far behind.

#26 Chris in Guelph on 08.18.13 at 9:32 pm

How many of these benefits apply to common law couples?

#27 blase on 08.18.13 at 9:33 pm

Nice read today Garth. Shot on the streetcar, lol.

Garth, when does the government lower the limit on CMHC mortgages from the current $999,999? What do they drop it to?

#28 Ludmila on 08.18.13 at 9:35 pm

I’d rather say you’re pragmatic :)

#29 Smoking Man on 08.18.13 at 9:39 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lRWXHomzF0&feature=youtube_gdata_playerCA IRA

My financial plan, it actually worked out. Click above.

Let the boat drift today, middle of Lake Ontario, had above tune cranked, wify poo, rips of her suit and dives into lake.

No I did not think about starting the engine and taking off.

Did the same, it was cold. Now I know what castanza was talking about.

#30 Car Picker on 08.18.13 at 9:53 pm

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fd6_1376797415

#31 Freedom First on 08.18.13 at 9:55 pm

#10 ILoveCharts

Bravo!!!! more truth concerning the RE industry. In Canada consumer protection in the RE industry and everyone involved with RE, is sorely lacking. Most unfortunate, but most businesses today have the characteristics of a psychopath. I just love seeing Garth, and people like ILoveCharts writing the truth and exposing them. Another most unfortunate thing, instead of changes being made, in today’s world, the messengers/whistle blowers/truth tellers are punished as much as possible. But always, no matter what, “What is done in the dark, will be revealed in the light”. Some people call it Karma. Call it whatever you like. It is the truth…….Freedom First.

#32 BrokeMD on 08.18.13 at 10:03 pm

Hi Garth, just wondering … what if one party has a large debt (eg. med school)? Seems like separate finances may be advisable until that is paid down (to protect the other party in event of a streetcar shooting, etc.). Any advice?

#33 Herb on 08.18.13 at 10:04 pm

Well said, Garth. If there is no basis for financial trust in a relationship, forget the relationship.

#34 W on 08.18.13 at 10:09 pm

Are there no equalization payments in Quebec or do they just get married less?

#35 ynot on 08.18.13 at 10:10 pm

Lotalotiron sitting around in the Fraser Valley Vancouver .

#36 HAWK on 08.18.13 at 10:13 pm

I actually thought its the other way around regarding assets splitting, which is that what you had inherited before marriage remains yours and what you got after marriage is split via equalization.

#37 JulinCR on 08.18.13 at 10:17 pm

To #17 Mocha:

What losers are you dating? Look for quality women, there are plenty. If you tried and failed, work on improving yourself, so that one day, may be just may be, one of them says “yes” to a dinner invitation. Quality women date quality men. Stop whining and become one.

#38 For bitter or worse — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Estate | The Affluent Boomer™ on 08.18.13 at 10:30 pm

[…] via For bitter or worse — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Es…. […]

#39 Saskatoon-Living on 08.18.13 at 10:34 pm

Yep, still different here:

http://teamfisher.com/saskatchewan-leads-provinces-for-real-estate-sales-gains-in-july-2013-crea/

#40 Smoking Man on 08.18.13 at 10:36 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3iX0SUQpPg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

HERB FOR You click above..

This lad is my creation, actually son 1

If you can get past a few f words in the first song, the other two if listen carefully, you know who programed his coconut.

Gave up a promising music carrier, would not bend on his principles with the record company. How can he, he’s my son.

Happy has hell, door to door sales, and now partnering and opening offices in Halifax, Newfoundland and PEI

Reason he quit music, he’s not a rapper, a blues man, no market……

#41 Roial1 on 08.18.13 at 10:55 pm

That’s great advice,— BUT, how do we get around the individuality of TFSA’s RRSP’s we have both names on all our other accounts’ but these are set by the GOV. so how do we combine them?

You can’t. But one person can fund another’s account. — Garth

#42 detalumis on 08.18.13 at 10:57 pm

#17 is correct, for both men and women, and Quebec common-law is the best, people are adults and they should be financially responsible for themselves not expect a partner to pay spousal support to them for life. I live in an area full of retired people and have met a few that loathe each other but are tied together for financial reasons. That’s what you call a life sentence. If I were young today I would stay single.

#43 ILoveCharts on 08.18.13 at 11:01 pm

Re: #31 Freedom First

Thanks. Now for the irony. I might remove subjects and buy a place tomorrow. Why? Although I’m not happy with the available selection or prices, I’m skeptical it will change dramatically. Too many greater fools.

#44 Smoking Man's Old Man on 08.18.13 at 11:15 pm

Getting married or living common law is the biggest mistake anyone can make period.

#45 2or3orsometimes7 on 08.18.13 at 11:15 pm

Okay Garth, please tell – how much does each additional kid cut one’s wealth? Does having 2 vs 3 really change one’s financial future?

A recent study found that to raise one child in the US now costs parents more than $240,000. I haven’t seen equivalent Canadian numbers, but I doubt multiple kids come with a discount. — Garth

#46 Berniebee on 08.18.13 at 11:19 pm

#31 Freedom First

“Most unfortunate, but most businesses today have the characteristics of a psychopath”

Businesses as psychopaths have always been so. It’s just more noticeable these days because many CEOs have accumulated so much wealth and power.
And a CEO’s business donates far more money to political parties than you or I could.
Still wonder why the CREA can get away with BS?

#47 the taxman on 08.18.13 at 11:27 pm

Garth,

If one spouse enters marriage with a higher net worth and higher income that the other… is it really legal for that spouse to place all assets in a joint account. That would be some great income splitting! Are you sure that is permitted?

#48 the taxman2 on 08.18.13 at 11:30 pm

Garth,
In certain circumstances it could be advantageous to maintain funds in a separate account… for example wife intends to take extended time off for an extended parental leave… have wife keep most (all?) of her earnings in her own investment account so that investment income during parental leave is taxed entirely at her low rates… thoughts?

#49 Min in Mission on 08.18.13 at 11:31 pm

Very good post Garth. “Awesome Lady” and I have all our accounts as “joint”.

There was no problem when we “got together”. Neither of us had anything! We worked together and now we have enough to be comfortable, at least by our standards!

Although we are a bit slow in getting started, we are looking for an advisor in our neighbourhood. Life is looking better for us.

Mostly we sleep together, unless I snore too loudly.

#50 dienekes on 08.18.13 at 11:37 pm

Is #1 Bob Truman? That’s all he needed, was to be #1?
Maybe he won’t be so miserable now.
He likes to bash Garth’s views on realestates overvalued position, which I think is quite obvious, but never offers any substantive reasons as to why it should continue to climb.

#51 Marie-Chantal on 08.18.13 at 11:43 pm

– Not only does this decision have emotional consequences, but in most parts of the country (most notably except Quebec) it’s misguided. Family law legislation blends most marital assets, so in the event of a breakdown there’s an equalization payment. – Garth

Garth, can you summarize the main differences in Quebec as compared to the rest of Canada, or provide a link with this information? Many thanks!! – Marie-Chantal

#52 Ralph Cramdown on 08.18.13 at 11:47 pm

#42 detalumis — “[…] people are adults and they should be financially responsible for themselves not expect a partner to pay spousal support to them for life.”

If you look at the laws from the point of view of a government that doesn’t want to have to support indigent citizens if there’s anyone else who can be forced to support them, things start to make a lot more sense.

#53 Julie on 08.18.13 at 11:48 pm

#37 JulinCR on 08.18.13 at 10:17 pm
To #17 Mocha:

What losers are you dating? Look for quality women, there are plenty. If you tried and failed, work on improving yourself, so that one day, may be just may be, one of them says “yes” to a dinner invitation. Quality women date quality men. Stop whining and become one.

————-

Hahaha……women today are such losers its unbelievable. Little princesses who live on their iPhones who want everything but have no idea how to cook, clean or raise kids. My hubby does all three. Quality women? Good friggin luck.

#54 Infused with Opiates on 08.19.13 at 12:03 am

46 Berniebee/ 31 FF

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/top-10-jobs-that-attract-most-psychopaths/

#55 takla on 08.19.13 at 12:03 am

very tough garth getting thru the mine-field of long term marriage.Especially with kids,have to agree on the cost associated after raiseing 4 of our own.Like most couples we had careers and needed seperate credit cards[MOST VILE financial device ever levied on the finacial ignorant,,,,AND parents trying to raise a family}to maintain our careers and our joint finances just grew apart.Oh well I think we both liked it that way.Now that the kids are off on thier own we have done so also…Altho I think the wife likes it more than me…..

#56 Donald Trump on 08.19.13 at 12:06 am

Quebec ?

It’s basically Canada’s purgatory and DNA tests are illegal.

#57 happy renter on 08.19.13 at 12:10 am

Marry an asian or a latino woman,they make much better wives then some tv addicted,over weight money grubby caucasian.

#58 retired Boomer - WI on 08.19.13 at 12:22 am

It all starts with being LUCKY enough to find the right spouse. In my case Janet, wife of 39+ years get along near perfect.
We have always combined our finances, and bills. We have almost always done the bills, savings, and investments together. It’s NOT always easy, but we set aside Saturday mornings to to the bank & money stuff.
39 years ago, there was no savings, 2 car payments, and that first rented dump for $100 a month, heavenly!!
No furniture, no idea how to “run” our lives as newly weds we surely over spent on beer, dining out, and travel. A year later, add diapers, buying the first “real” furniture, appliances etc. Always saved up at least a part of it first, then actually used the 90 days same as cash method and paid it off. Not even sure if those plans even exist these days.
The first house. 1977 $29,900 8.5% mortgage.
2nd house (duplex) 1978 $63,500 8.5% mortgage.
Several job moves, more houses, different mortgages.

Around age 35 decided we needed to take charge of saving up for our retirement. Used 401K 10% at first, increased to 12%. Then added the ROTH’s when they became available, but they were limited to what one could put in, but not to worry, never hit the full allocation in the early years but we did later on. Gotta start somewhere.

Last house 1997 new build $110,000 7.5% done now.

Of course, when you buy a fully improved lot for $11,000
in a small town, and work from the house you are way ahead of the average family with commuting costs. So build what you wish to retire into someday, finish out the basement etc etc. Work to pay it off timely. Retire early.

It worked here, maybe not so well there.

Still, keeping debt low enough to only finance cars for 3 years, and paying off a 30 yr mortgage in 13.5 years is a feat in itself. Never let credit cards run wild either, oh sometimes you were paying that transmission rebuild for a few months, but you got it done.

Combining finances, and talking over the state of your world i think allowed us to learn to be money smart over the years. Yes there were illnesses, job losses, car wrecks all the typical bullshit everybody faces.

It’s called life. Get over it! Now, Get ON with it.

#59 Timing is Everything on 08.19.13 at 1:06 am

$243,660 CAD…And that’s before you send them off to university.

http://tinyurl.com/mv9j2ev

#60 bob on 08.19.13 at 1:10 am

Wow, this blog got less pathetic. It’s not all about real-estate which makes it… more interesting?

See what an optimist I am?

#61 Donald Trump on 08.19.13 at 1:13 am

Tomorrow:

Much to discuss why women lost the battle of the sexes….it wasn’t even close.

#62 Timing is Everything on 08.19.13 at 1:15 am

Almost forgot…

http://tinyurl.com/k5eonms

#63 Son of Ponzi on 08.19.13 at 2:09 am

#41
“But one person can fund another’s account – Garth.”

A Ponzi scheme worthy to bear my father’s name.

#64 Son of Ponzi on 08.19.13 at 2:11 am

Talking about joints.
Time to legalize the stuff.

#65 Ship on 08.19.13 at 5:02 am

Oh that is romantic anhhbbbbbhhbbhbh

#66 NoName on 08.19.13 at 5:33 am

Mr. Turner one question.
I contribute to spousal rsp, what will happened is she earns more many that year than me? I do believe that my and spousal rsp contribution thrue my payroll are pre tax dollars, but i could be wrong on this one. tnx.

#67 Mike on 08.19.13 at 6:59 am

“And as far as debt goes, it’s just dumb for one spouse to be shouldering a pile of student loans at 5% while the other, risk-averse person dicks around with a high-interest savings account paying a taxable 2%. Just chunk the cash against the (non-deductible) debt, and improve the financial strength of your family unit.”

I laughed at that paragraph. It’s true I see this situation happening among several of my friends.

#68 jerry on 08.19.13 at 7:24 am

Forward guidance and marriage guidance…..who knew they were the same thing?

#69 The Big M on 08.19.13 at 7:32 am

If you can’t even trust your spouse with a joint bank account, what can you trust her/him with.

Not only should you not be married, you shouldn’t even be living together. Just get together on Friday night for a quickie, then carry on.

Simpler that way, no?

Garth, what’d you say to your wife to put such a scowl on her face?

#70 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.19.13 at 7:41 am

#40
I would never have guessed that you were this fellow here. Explains a lot. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/7/20/1279581915597/CONRAD-BLACK-AND-BARBARA–006.jpg

#71 Catalyst on 08.19.13 at 7:59 am

@ #17, 37, 42, 54

On the topic of why guys should never get married consider this story.

The star posted it from the perspective of the poor wife left to fend for 4 kids. Personally I felt bad for the guy who was convicted to a lifetime of $4,000/mo spousal support.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/07/01/deadbeat_dad_flees_to_philippines_leaving_four_kids_without_support.html

#72 TurnerNation on 08.19.13 at 8:03 am

“After debts, the spouse with the smaller net worth gets an equalization payment”

If one person enters with 10k in assets, the other with 500k, and splits after say 2 years they’ll walk away with a cheque of over 200k?
Sweet. For some. And courts really treat men and women equally in this situation? I don’t believe it.

Better, a compilation of non-extradition countries.

#73 travelite on 08.19.13 at 8:35 am

This is a particularly fine blog entry.

These words are so true:

“More than that, it can rob a couple of unity of purpose and direction”

If you want to achieve some good things as a married couple, get on the same page with your finances.

#74 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.19.13 at 8:35 am

#71
Linking to news outlets with pay walls only encourages them.

#75 Kent on 08.19.13 at 8:47 am

My common law wife and I have had separate accounts since the beginning (22 years). We’re a bit more integrated now having two kids (one handicapped) but we have joint money and our own accounts. One benefit is no money arguments we see with other couples. We don’t even argue over the joint money.

You will. — Garth

#76 Herb on 08.19.13 at 8:50 am

#40 SM,

sorry, means dick to me. As you might have guessed, my musical development got stuck in the classics.

#77 TurnerNation on 08.19.13 at 8:54 am

Old Man: where are the heiresses and baronesses hanging out these days? Park Hyatt rooftop, La Societe on Bloor?

#78 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.19.13 at 9:04 am

@#71 Catalyst

While I agree that the $4k per month was ridiculous.

The father is a ruthless prick.

Greed and its consequenses. No one wins

#79 Westcdn on 08.19.13 at 9:24 am

Your post reminds me of another use for a spousal RRSP – prepaid alimony, and if not, all the better.
I read this piece – “Too many houses, too much house”. I agree. Basically it says that past performance offer no predictive value of future values. Things are shifting and it would be wise to pay attention to societal changes. It does not say Real Estate crash – just be prepared for the effect of change and lower your expectations for RE.
http://www.acting-man.com/?p=25391
Next optional viewing: a melange of a favorite piece of music and Lord of the Rings. There are things worth fighting for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDy3gk40wvs

#80 Ret on 08.19.13 at 9:26 am

There are lots of reasons to financially not get married.

Own two properties free of capital gains. after all, you are registered as living in your parent’s basement if you are smart.

Foist the wife and four kids on mother’s allowance and get her a subsidized townhouse. She’ll get lots of free stuff, hst checks etc. and you can “visit” her and the kids whenever you want. Flip her a couple of hundred bucks a month and you, her and the kids are all a way better off.

I’m sure that there are many other financial incentives to not get married.

#81 Uwinsome on 08.19.13 at 9:29 am

Higher rents fo Toronto condos:

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2013/8/19/Toronto-condos-luring-more-renters-driving-up-rents.aspx

#82 #75 Kent on 08.19.13 at 10:14 am

$75 Kent,

if living together without benefit of matrimony, make sure you at least have a cohabitation agreement!

Just witnessed the terrible end of a 23-year common-law union that was terminated by Alzheimer’s, with the “surviving spouse” out on his ear. Without a cohab agreement, you’re only a friend with privileges, not a spouse in Ontario.

#83 PoltawaDiva on 08.19.13 at 10:25 am

I used to work with teenagers, and invariably the question came up “Ms, how do you know if it’s true love?” I had a simple solution which reveals a lot about the way teenagers think, or how ready they are to commit “for better or worse, for sickness and in health…”

For the “worse” part, I would ask: “If your fiance/e were in a horrible accident tomorrow, burned, disfigured, amputated, etc, would you still marry him/her?” Girls would invariably answer, Oh yes, I would take care of him, nurse him, etc. Boys would want to know the details, but the answer would mostly be negative.

The second part was for “better”: If you won 5 million dollars in lotto tomorrow, would you share it 50-50.
Surprisingly, in this informal survey, the girls would answer No way, I would buy him a sports car, etc.
The boys usually would say “sure”

Remember, these were teenagers who do not really have a concept of real care giving, health issues or wealth. However, it makes me wonder – some of them will be married or living common law very soon, if not already. Where are they headed, or was this just a sign that they had not found “true love”?

#84 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 10:30 am

#77 Turner Nation – The Hyatt rooftop is still a good score, but lets not forget the Windsor Arms; oh my list is long.

#85 Chickenlittle on 08.19.13 at 10:39 am

#53 Julie and #57 Happy Renter:

I have a story about that!

When my husband and I moved into our new place we called an internet and cable company to come and set us up. They were going to come at 4:30 so one of us had to be home. Now, my husband and I got home at the same time and the guy was there waiting for us. I didn’t see any need to follow them around so I went to start dinner because I was hungry and I knew my husband was too.
I heard my husband laughing from the living room but I didn’t know why. Turns out the guy (who was from a different country) says to my husband, “Wow! You have a good wife! She comes home from work and goes straight to the kitchen! That’s good!”
I thought that was hilarious!

Mind you, I do like cooking, so that does make me different than most (not all) other Caucasian chicks like myself.

#86 gladiator on 08.19.13 at 10:57 am

I’ve read somewhere a quite good advice on handling money in a family: spouses have 3 accounts in total: one joint and 2 separate. They agree on what percentage of their income goes into “wants”, say, 15-20% – this goes into separate accounts. The rest goes into the joint account for “needs”. Each spouse is free to spend the “want” money from his/her separate account as he/she pleases: gadgets, shoes, clothes, auto-tuning, etc. They manage together the common account money. Sounds reasonable to me.
Of course, if the “want” money is used for “love services” then these people should not be together in the first place.

#87 blase on 08.19.13 at 11:00 am

Call me old-fashioned, but my wife depends on me to be the leader of our household. She’s a very traditional female who takes care of the house, cleans, and helps our son with his homework and piano lessons. She looks to me to be the strong one, and I look to her to reign me in when my maleness gets the best of me. I know she would never leave me, and I would never leave her. We NEED each other. The problem these days is too many women think they don’t need their husband and would be better off without them. Sadly, most find out upon divorce (that 80% of women initiate, remember, men are always to blame in our society) that they were a big part of their own misery, and now they get to enter the wonderful world of second-chances dating, where their beauty has faded, their enormous cleavage is the only selling point, and the men are not looking for a long-term deal. Ah, wasted youth.

#88 blase on 08.19.13 at 11:02 am

Chickenlittle,

If only those women would enjoy cooking as much as they like eating…then they wouldn’t have to keep telling themselves that they are “curvy” and not “obese”.

We are now straying on to toxic ground. — Garth

#89 OZY _ SUCKERS on 08.19.13 at 11:13 am

Of COURSE they need to stay separate

‘she has student loans for 200000 and he has a hard worked saved 500000. She visited all world, having fun with casanovas which wanted to bang her ass and he starved on country’s far remote projects, or in the army…

If he hands 50% to her, it’s an idiot that deserves it. She’ll get “Bored” a kid and 5 years later.

Males in kanata just don’t get it. Shove such old-style advice for an era man dominated.

#90 OZY _ SUCKERS 2 on 08.19.13 at 11:18 am

And by the way, it is called RESPONSIBILITY

THE Spuse in debt to pay back the load and the interest.

It is irresponsible to suggest the one with money should pay for the one that was irresponsible. Let them carry the cross. I am sure those prada, gucci stores wont miss her.

#91 Alberta Ed on 08.19.13 at 11:19 am

We hold everything jointly: investments, bank accounts, vehicles. It’s worked fine for 44 years, and being married provides numerous tax advantages. If a tragedy occurs, having joint accounts means the survivor doesn’t have to worry about probate or lengthy and expensive court procedures. It’s also a good idea to have a professionally prepared will. Having a good financial adviser goes without saying.

#92 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 11:40 am

I have not seen this on the news, but just came from the bank, and Caesar has decreed no more government cheques for C.P.P. and OAS. All must be done by direct deposit which I have, so get computer printouts from the bank when the time comes. This might uncover a bit of corruption when all is said and done.

#93 DM in C on 08.19.13 at 11:45 am

20 years in as of Wed, and we are still early 40’s. Two kids, one already launched (quit school, and didn’t like house rules, so left for better pastures).

We each have our own credit card, but all bank accounts are joint. Each have work rrsp matching plans (wouldn’t really call them pensions, per se). We have TFSA and investment accounts.

I make 3x what he does (he’s no slouch, but I had the benefit of timing and post-secondary), but we share equally. Including cooking and cleaning too.

YMMV but it’s working for us.

#94 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.19.13 at 11:59 am

# 87
You’re old fashioned.

#95 Vangrrl on 08.19.13 at 11:59 am

#85 Chickenlittle
Wow, what a bizarre comment. I would expext it from some of the morons on here, but I hadn’t realized ‘most Caucasian (Italian, Brazilian, Irish, Portugeuse, British, Swiss, German, etc….) women’ don’t like to cook. Guess you have some inside info I’m not aware of. Some women don’t like to cook (non-white women, too! Gasp!), some do, some men like to cook, some don’t. I don’t know how people can not enjoy it other than I think many people are just overworked and don’t have time so that it is seen as a chore rather than something enjoyable.

#96 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 12:04 pm

The banks are anxious to expand credit, and don’t fall for this debt trap, as had two computer messages on my bank account today. The first was to raise my credit card limit higher, but pay all off, so need it not; the other was to raise my overdraft protection which I hardly ever use. Yet, in an emergency said ok raise that from $1,000 to $2,000, and signed a new agreement for $4.00 a month.

#97 Marina ( Ukraine) on 08.19.13 at 12:22 pm

Yes, Canada is screwed-up society. Reading all comments above I am speechless on how males do not understand their general role in this life. A Man must earn money for his family – for his wife, kids and has to financially support all of them. Women may work or may not work, if she works then it is her money, not family money. But if woman pays the bills then why does she have to cook and do other housework?????

#98 Herb on 08.19.13 at 12:29 pm

Comment #82 came from me. In a “senior’s moment” I put the reference to Kent’s #75 both in the identifier and the comment.

#99 -=jwk=- on 08.19.13 at 12:47 pm

married 6 years, still on separate accounts. Just easier and cheaper that way so far. She was getting free service from RBC Student account. Post grad, we paid off her loans and mine. I just write checks for her to put in her TFSA, spousal RRSP. She likes putting her Kid and HST cheques in her account, we treat it as bonus money. We have Presidents choice credit card, originally shared number but recently they made the numbers unique, but one bill to me. She has sears CC she likes and pays herself. That is her only bill. She also has my debit card, for cash and Costco. She is at home with the kids. My high income isn’t really enough in the GTA, but we get by.

Why pay fees for joint accounts when you don’ have to?

#100 Donald Trump on 08.19.13 at 1:17 pm

Women lost the battle of the sexes:
(and yes, very connected to Real Estate

Part 1: How they bought the feminist kool-aid
(no this is not a parody)

Harken back decades, but Sigmund Freud theories and his nephew Edward Bernays(marketing) began shaping public’s traditional view of the gender roles.

Also Margaret Sanger was a leading figure in what became Planned Parenthood but what was really a Eugenics program.

Kinsey came forward with his (bogus)studies.

This all started to come together in the late 1950’s/early 1960’s with various civil rights/feminist etc.movements.

The kool -aid swallowers thought they were being liberated, when in fact were enslaving themselves.

Trick is…look farther ahead and see the coins flip side.

To be Continued

#101 Ahead of the Curve on 08.19.13 at 1:20 pm

Garth, didn’t know you were such a romantic…

I was talking with a friend recently who works for the G&M and he was telling me that one of the stories that gets a lot of hits is RRSP’s and TFSA’s.

Most people just don’t know how to use them properly, how to maximize their legal tax advantages, and how to retain more of the money they made.

It’s a sad state of affairs. Maybe one day you can dedicate a post explaining this in more detail.

#102 OnlyTheBankersLaugh on 08.19.13 at 1:21 pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/toronto-condos-luring-more-renters/article13835384/

Just love it. Since supply is getting so big, obviously demand goes up even further and drives rental prices up. Totally get it. Makes so much sense. Are newspapers this controlled by realtors that they will print this crap? This is nonsensical.

#103 Ahead of the Curve on 08.19.13 at 1:21 pm

By the way, any thoughts on the REMAX IPO?

#104 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.19.13 at 1:22 pm

@#97 Marina(Ukraine)
“…..Yes, Canada is screwed-up society. Reading all comments above …..”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The irony escapes you but, I assume thats why you moved here? Because Canada offers a better life than the “old country”……?

#105 Smoking Man on 08.19.13 at 1:25 pm

Headline in the National Post

CANADAS HOUSING MARKET :THE ONE NO ONE CAN PREDICT….

Ha hello Smokey has be calling it. In the body of the story.

We have been dealing with something involving irrational exuberance, beyond the scope of any economic forecasting models…

First of, not even an original saying, copied Green Span.

But I have been saying this for year’s, the herd is differ here.

But no, no one listens to the village idiot, unless of course they Wana make loot..

#106 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 1:28 pm

Now have a few words about getting married, as believe this is so cool about falling in love with an attraction to each other. Forget the money as the most important equation is having mutual interests to fuel the passion for many years, as without common interests all will be lost ending in a divorce. The binding force between a man and a woman is sharing common interests to make things last forever. Now the money and savings will come later discussing over a cup of coffee a new direction for financial security as a mutual benefit for each other, and how they will invest the inheritances from the parents. :)

#107 Toronto_CA on 08.19.13 at 1:33 pm

If/when I move in with my boyfriend of 3 years, we’ll be separate accounts and joint accounts for joint expenses. There’s a huge income discrepancy between us and I don’t plan on ever getting married legally (although we will still have a commitment ceremony masking as a wedding). There will also be a cohabitation agreement drafted by both of our lawyers.

As I am fond of saying, EVERYONE has a pre-nuptial agreement anyway based on the province you live in (the Family Law Act of Ontario in our case) so why not make one that suits both of your needs, rather than use an archaic government drafted pre-nup based on 1950s pointed bra’d stay at home barefoot and pregnant housewives?

#108 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.19.13 at 1:48 pm

A little off today’s topic but interesting none the less. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/19/toronto-condo-prices-have_n_3780106.html

#109 today on 08.19.13 at 1:57 pm

@old man… how would direct deposits uncover corruption?

#110 Penny Henny on 08.19.13 at 1:58 pm

#97 Marina ( Ukraine) on 08.19.13 at 12:22 pm
Yes, Canada is screwed-up society. Reading all comments above I am speechless on how males do not understand their general role in this life. A Man must earn money for his family – for his wife, kids and has to financially support all of them. Women may work or may not work, if she works then it is her money, not family money. But if woman pays the bills then why does she have to cook and do other housework?????
——————————————————

Wow Marina, you sound like a catch.

#111 Devore on 08.19.13 at 2:00 pm

It’s a symptom of people getting married and starting families later in life. When they used to do it out of school, they both started with nothing, and worked together to build their lives. Now when they do it in late 20s, early 30s, they have stuff. And habits. They think theirs are the best and everyone else is doing it wrong. They are naturally protective of them. Even if they have nothing, they are not willing to share.

#112 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 2:12 pm

I have a message for Smoking Man as on October 26, 2013 his favorite group will appear at the Bear’s Den in NY, but will not show up on the casino schedule, but they are booked on this date – go figure as the Old Man knows all. :)

#113 Ray on 08.19.13 at 2:18 pm

Looks like prime rate won’t go up till 2014. But weather you buy know or latter it doesn’t matter much. You will most likely come out even either way.

ie if you buy now price is higher but the cost of your mortgage is less, if you buy later the price is loweer but the cost of your mortgage is more.

It’s not about the monthly, but the debt. No contest. — Garth

#114 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 2:44 pm

#109 today – I have seen it all in life, and my take is that many cheques being sent out ‘might’ for benefits have no bank accounts, but are being cashed with names for people that have died, so anticipate a bit of corruption in the dark. I may be a farm boy at heart, but never fell off the tractor for a ride with produce going to the factory.

#115 45north on 08.19.13 at 2:45 pm

rosie: Linking to news outlets with pay walls only encourages them

fair game to me. I mean the newspapers are going out of business, how else are they going to pay the bills?

Poltawa Diva: Girls would answer, boys would answer

that rings true

#116 Big Brother on 08.19.13 at 2:46 pm

#40 Smoking Man on 08.18.13 at 10:36 pm

MK-Ultra says at least we know your son had son talent Smoking Man. We don’t control Copperheads mind just yours. BTW we heard his name yelled out in the crowd.
Does your wify poo know you talk about her skinny dipping in Lake Ontario while jumping off your boat?
Just another thing we know about Smoking Man. You have vivid dreams!!!!!!!!!!!!!………………………….and we are in them.

#117 Marina ( Ukraine) on 08.19.13 at 2:52 pm

#104 CrowdedElevatorfartz
I assume thats why you moved here? Because Canada offers a better life than the “old country”……?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nope, at least not now. We are coming back to Russia as Canadian economy is getting worse and worse, too many people losing their jobs.
Are you aware that in Russia women get pension at the age of 55 ( !) – not at the age of 67 as in Canada now.

#118 broadway skytrain on 08.19.13 at 2:53 pm

#92 Old Man. All must be done by direct deposit which I have
———————————————–
you have direct deposit? wow you must be some banks super special customer. good for you.

#119 Chickenlittle on 08.19.13 at 2:57 pm

#95 Vangrrl

It’s true. If you don’t have the time then cooking and eating just becomes another thing to check off of an already full day.
I was lucky because my work hours left me enough time to be able to make good food.
I really just go by what other girls have told me about themselves.
There IS a stereotype that says Canadian girls don’t know anything. I heard this all the time when I lived in Romania, and also from some of my immigrant friends. They would say stuff like, “Oh she’s Canadian, she doesn’t know anything.” to “If a Canadian guy did this he would have given up already.”
Besides, my cousin leaves me in the dust when it comes to food! She makes perogies by hand. I’d never do that!
To each his/her own. That’s my motto.

#88 Blasé:

Tell me about it!! I’m a small girl and I get SO tired of hearing that I am not a “real” woman because I don’t wear a size 14. Not everyone is going to be a size 0, but there is someone for everyone! And being obese is NOT good, no matter what Oprah says

#120 Ray on 08.19.13 at 3:02 pm

It’s not about the monthly, but the debt. No contest. — Garth

Capital gain is tax free in RE. I think its prudent to compare also interest saving against potential price correction which ~7% on average.

#121 Form Man on 08.19.13 at 3:22 pm

#105 SM

Straightforward math ( something that requires some schooling, so you might struggle with that ) tells us that when supply is greater than demand, prices will fall. The fact that homebuyers are irrational and exuberant only means the eventual correction will be sharper and deeper. Those who are celebrating price increases and overbuilding are ignoring facts at their peril.

#122 Devore on 08.19.13 at 3:30 pm

#113 Ray

Another sad, misinformed “monthly payment” soul. If you had even an inkling of actual honest interest in the topic, you’d do the math. Go ahead, it will only take 5 minutes. Or take the cheat sheet: lower debt wins.

#123 Mixed Bag on 08.19.13 at 3:50 pm

#110 Penny Henny on 08.19.13 at 1:58 pm

#97 Marina ( Ukraine) on 08.19.13 at 12:22 pm

Marina isn’t all that incorrect. Having children, propagating your genes, is a great demand on resources – time, money, physical presence, emotion, and mental energy. Someone has to raise them with love (why have kids only to send them to day care? my opinion – the machine, the Matrix, but I digress). Someone has to clean the house, cook the food, wash the clothes, repair this or that, manage bills, figure out which insurance company or cable/phone package or financial advisor is best. Someone has to do something that will earn cash to pay for their living. There are many, many tasks required in a family household, and they are all obligations of both parents, both parents who will figure out who can do what task when, what task can be shared, which task each prefers/has talent for/or just the situation dictates. You’re both in it together to take care of your family. Marina, like a lot of folks, says man does this, woman does that. I say, who cares who does what as long as it gets done.

#124 Mixed Bag on 08.19.13 at 3:52 pm

#78 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.19.13 at 9:04 am

@#71 Catalyst

As controversial as the sad situation is, I was willing to give both sides some benefit of the doubt. As the saying goes, until you’ve walked in someone else’s shoes. However, at the very end of the article, where the runaway dad sends his 10-year-old son a birthday gift of chips and peanuts, after leaving him, that spoke volumes on the man’s character. I can imagine how crestfallen the boy must have felt, and this removed any benefit of doubt for the dad.

#125 Smoking Man on 08.19.13 at 4:00 pm

Old man, will call my host at Seneca, front row on second thought , go with last row, no one can puke on me.

It’s happened to before.

#126 Holy Crap Where's The Tylenol on 08.19.13 at 4:20 pm

#112 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 2:12 pm

I have a message for Smoking Man as on October 26, 2013 his favorite group will appear at the Bear’s Den in NY, but will not show up on the casino schedule, but they are booked on this date – go figure as the Old Man knows all. :)

Unless you know about a Pink Floyd Reunion then Smoking Man will not be attending. Smoking Man I still have my tickets from Pink Floyd back in 1969. It was a great show for us old Hippies. Now I am just an old guy with the money I wished I had in University back in 1969. Oh well can’t have it both ways.

#127 Donald Trump on 08.19.13 at 4:24 pm

Battle of the Sexes..

I won’t get into the race issues of the 1950’s and 1960’s, but the agenda was to divide and conquer.

The cultural marxists work to define and create oppressed groups out of thin air. Concurrently this also defines an oppressor. Suffice it to say in general it is the heterosexual male(HM), (or more specifically the caucasian heterosexual male).

Women were sucked into the equality vortex ….” be equal to a man “. How many time have we heard the term ”
Why buy the cow if the milk is free “.

Women didn’t market themselves properly in the shift.
Equality on a more shallow and primal scale became the lowest common denominator

To Be Cont’d

#128 Ray on 08.19.13 at 4:25 pm

Thanks for deleting. Guess that happens when people disagrees with you. Unlike you I considered pros/cons of every angle instead stubbornly a bearish stance of RE. Will I come out ahead in RE in the long run? Probably not but I won’t be losing my shirt either.

I deleted nothing. But I was busy polishing my bike for an hour. Grow up. — Garth

#129 Donald Trump on 08.19.13 at 4:25 pm

#112 Old Man on 08.19.13 at 2:12 pm

Which of the Village People is your favourite?

#130 4 AM Sunrise on 08.19.13 at 4:47 pm

Garth, you certainly are a romantic. But it is true – my Cheap Immigrant Boomer parents built up their joint wealth by pooling their assets. As is typical in Chinese households of their day, my dad brought home the bacon and my mom budgeted and invested the bacon. That worked out for them. They retired mortgage-free and debt-free and live well below their means. AND their OAS money kicks in next year!

That’s probably the only thing that worked for them. Your Tweet says “For bitter or worse” – “bitter” like my parents? They’ve been married for 38 years and have been undermining each other for the last 30. They’re grudgingly married to each other for the sole purpose of keeping a finger in the pie of their collective assets. There is no way to divvy up that pie without spooning out some of the filling to lawyers and taxes. I dream of a day when I can liquidate and take their assets, then turn around and pay them each an amount equal to the collective pie so they can break up and move on. (For now, and much to their dismay, I’ve moved out. It looks like they’re nicer to each other when they can’t look to me to referee their fights.)

My mom always taught me to NOT pool my assets with my future husband. I suppose she’s speaking from her own broken trust. You never know what the future holds. The people who are closest to you are the ones who can hurt you the most. Don’t pay down his debts. Don’t help to put him through school, or he’ll get a better job and trade you in for a younger woman. Always keep a separate emergency fund in case he turns out to be abusive and you have to flee. Actually, maybe she was subtly discouraging me from marrying at all.

So I’ve made it this far in life with no boyfriend, no husband, no debts, no dependents, and a decent-sized nest egg. Damn right I’m going to ask for a pre-nup if I get married, and I’ll sign any reasonable pre-nup that is presented to me. My city is mocked by the rest of the country for being a dating dead zone, so who knows what the future holds. Now I’m hearing all this stuff about men turning away from marriage, and for good reason. So, basically, we’re all terrified one way or another, right?

Read “Dollars and Sex” by Marina Adshade for a fascinating application of economic theory to the dating world.

#131 Ballingsford on 08.19.13 at 5:26 pm

Marina from the Ukriane; I’m thinking that you are not from the Ukraine; you are just trying to making a funny!

Ukraine women should contribute to the family pool and not keep it to themselves. How selfish. A family is like a band of sticks. Each stick can be broken individually, but if you group all the sticks together, you’ll not be able to break them.

That saying applies to any team in life; family, sports, office, etc.

Also, Ukraine men should cook, clean, look after and play with the young ones no matter who or jointly make the family income.

Because of my last statement, I call bullshit to your post.

If you were trying to be funny though; that was awesome!

#132 jess on 08.19.13 at 5:32 pm

Check this scheme out

========
A Sarasota nonprofit advertised as a government-sponsored foreclosure rescue is using its clients’ homes for a sweeping real estate scheme — delaying defaults through recurrent bankruptcy filings while renting the houses out, a Herald-Tribune investigation has found.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20130819/ARTICLE/308199978/2055/NEWS?p=2&tc=pg

#133 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.19.13 at 5:44 pm

@#117 Marina (Ukraine)
“…We are coming back to Russia as Canadian economy is getting worse and worse, too many people losing their jobs…..”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I can honestly say.
I’m not surprised.
I have worked with several Ukranian, Russian and Uzbekistani men at SNC Lavalin over the years and they ALL sound the same..
“Canada terrible! Too expensive here! In old country we do it this way. Much better in old country. We move back……”

And every one of them came back to Canada within one year , because…….its much ,much,much better here…. :)

#134 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.19.13 at 5:52 pm

@#117 Marina (Ukrainian)
“….Are you aware that in Russia women get pension at the age of 55 ( !) – not at the age of 67 as in Canada now….”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Da
Thats because most Russian women dont live to see 56.

All those yummy fried sausages filled with 95% fat and gallons of vodka that MUST be consumed.

My beautiful Babushka, what happened to your waistline?

#135 Milla on 08.19.13 at 6:01 pm

Hi, Marina. Your English is too good for an immigrant. I would suggest that you are a doughtier of not very successful immigrants who got education but cannot get a dissent job. I am sorry, but you are delusional about Russia or Ukraine. Also it was never obligation for a husband to provide financial support in Ukraine at least. But there always have been lazy women expecting to dwell on husbands neck. Believe me if you have failed to build your life in Canada there is nothing good for you in Russia

#136 HD on 08.19.13 at 6:23 pm

@ #130 4 AM Sunrise on 08.19.13 at 4:47 pm

Thanks for sharing.

That was very interesting.

Best,

HD

#137 TurnerNation on 08.19.13 at 6:29 pm

Old man guess I gotta hoop a prep school tie and an air of snivility.

#138 Ray on 08.19.13 at 6:33 pm

#122 Devore

You clearly don’t didn’t understand what I said. I never mentioned anything about monthly payments. That was Garth. I was referring to the total cost of servicing the mortgage. Btw, your logic is incorrect. That depends on the combination of price and interest rate. Not everything is black and white.

#139 helltopay on 08.19.13 at 6:45 pm

You missed one of the more common elements in marital finance and that is where the ‘everything is in his name’. Upon becoming a widow the woman finds that she can’t use her Sears card anymore. … or get a Hydro connection….house insurance is void…. and rehooking means everything comes with a ‘new client’ premium….as well as starter rates for new credit…which is tough for a seventy year old woman. Saw this cross my desk a hundred times…if not more.

#140 Donald Trump on 08.19.13 at 7:02 pm

Old Man and Smoking Man in younger days

….looking for Bolshevik love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbJIlEd6jA

#141 Bill Gable on 08.19.13 at 7:24 pm

Mr. Turner, you keep talking about keeping an eye on US Treasuries – well, this is interesting:

“The yield on the benchmark 10 Year Treasury bond has now shot passed 2.7% – a dramatic rise of 1% in less than 3 months.

If this trend continues, it could be the tipping point that pops the stock market bubble.

Let me explain.

The 10 Year US Treasury yield is the benchmark indicator – not just for the U.S., but also for the rest of the world.

The higher the yield on the 10-year, the higher the interest rates worldwide.

And in the last few months, this number has soared more than 60% – its greatest percentage move since 1962.

Higher interest rates makes housing less affordable and among other things, will slow GDP growth. Given that the housing sector is already being affected, as noted by the continued decline of mortgage applications, the 10-year yield continues to prove itself as a consistent indicator.

The decline in mortgage applications clearly indicates the effect of the 10-year yield. Mortgage rates in the U.S. have already jumped from 3.4% in early May to 4.4% today. When the 10-year yield goes up, so do mortgage rates.

And the drastic decline in mortgage applications follows.

Not only do rising rates cause a major slowdown to economic growth – especially during a time when growth is needed – they can have an adverse effect on the financial markets.”

Link: http://tinyurl.com/m7x9rat

#142 GTA RE in shambles on 08.19.13 at 7:41 pm

Only the bankers laugh #102

The problem is that newspapers are on the brink of going bankrupt. It’s a matter of time and they are trying to develop other revenue steams before the inevitable happens

#143 Devore on 08.19.13 at 7:45 pm

#138 Ray

You clearly referenced a scenario where the monthly payments are the same in low interest-big mortgage vs high interest-low mortgage scenarios.

And yes, it is that black and white.

Smaller mortgage wins over a big mortgage every time, even when monthly payments are the same. Only case where this might not be true is where you are playing funny math and accounting in order to game some benefit, the reason for buying here is much more murky to begin with.

#144 JimH on 08.19.13 at 7:55 pm

#107 Toronto C_A
“If/when I move in with my boyfriend of 3 years, we’ll be separate accounts and joint accounts for joint expenses… There will also be a cohabitation agreement drafted by both of our lawyers…”
====================================
Sounds like a marriage made in heaven!
Make sure the pre-nup also clearly states who gets to sleep on the wet spot!

#145 TurnerNation on 08.19.13 at 8:16 pm

As this weblog’s many mentions of that streetcar shooting goes, the officer was charged by SIU for 2nd Degree murder today! Surprised me, was expecting at most manslaughter or criminal negligence.

#146 Smoking Man on 08.19.13 at 8:38 pm

Big Brother nothing is as it seams

Perhaps what you witnessed is the real smoking man, no I wouldn’t do that. Or would I

How is this for an explanation.

I was doing a Google search, looking for Tobacco Road, then Copper head road, came across that clip, copperhead, this kid sounds like me, so said he was son 1

Only my shrink and NSA knows for sure..

#147 Ray on 08.19.13 at 8:40 pm

#142 Devore

(EDIT)

The funny accounting is interest rate. The fact is I can lock in 10 yr for rates at under 4%. Do you know what the average is going to be for the next 25 yrs? Seriously, below is an example where servicing a big mortgage is more advantages than a smaller mortgage.

I don’t believe you are going to make killing in RE in the future but I don’t think you are going to loose your shirt either.

https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/cgi-bin/mortgage/mpc/start.cgi

Case1: Small Mortgage
Mortgage: 400,000
Interest Rate: 7%
Interest: $440,495.43

Case2: Big Mortgage
Mortgage: 600,000
Interest Rate: 4%
Interest: $346,834.51

#148 2or3orsometimes7 on 08.19.13 at 9:14 pm

Share accounts with my husband? Are you crazy? He loses his wallet at least once a year. To have to go through changing all the cards/pins that often is deterrent enough from shared accounts.

#149 Carpe Diem on 08.20.13 at 12:46 am

RE: 2or3orsometimes7

1 kid does not change your lifestyle and kids gets awesome new stuff. (My wife wanted to leave me when we had 1 kid since there was no reason to change).

2 kids you have hand me downs but the life style is kept up for a bit – then the budget started to constrained. To a point that we moved away to Vancouver and back to Ottawa where prices for everything is down to earth.

3 kids … man the world turns over. Budget of the first 2 kids keep increasing because they eat so much! Add an LD and tutoring fees screw all budget. And then all 3 figure out they can eat more.

Meanwhile, vacations are to the closest grandparent you can find.

Value village becomes the best place for clothing and toys .. my kids love VV – you sometimes find cool toys there!

And I’m a guy that can afford my wife that stays homes to take care of the kids. Who wants to stay home and has a tight budget!

I have a mechanic friend with 4 kids and his wife hasn’t been working as a teacher for a while. They are sinking – well not so much since a home is an ATM – OK .. they are sinking.

One day the wife said … I really don’t want to go back to work. The husband seem dismayed. I said.

“Seriously … you have 4 kids … your husband works like a dog and your home is an ATM. You live in a world that you expect a bigger home but don’t want to go back to work with your man doing less than $90K?

It is simple. You retired parent and you sell both homes. Buy some place like MLS#####. (That is their plan, to see both homes so they can live in some acreage).

Both of you go WORK and make sure you have RESPs, RRSPs and TSFAs max’ed out.”

I found them a home with 2 acres (their dream) and an in-law suite for 40% less than both homes but still missy lives in some dream princess world.

She wants to keep their homes so they can make more in a few years in capital appreciation and get that same home 60% less than both homes.

This world is screwed.

#150 jess on 08.20.13 at 8:01 pm

Turkey coming unraveled?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/erdogan-endangering-economy-with-financial-sector-witch-hunt-a-917370.html