Why not?

stat cat

Do real estate boards lie? I mean, if they quietly revise numbers, or include dodgy data then feed those to the national body, which then issues monthly reports the media slathers over, who will be the wiser?

Bad boy ex-realtor Ross Kay is convinced that’s the case. In fact, he’s just published an ‘audit’ of national housing sales numbers he thinks proves it. CREA said this week that house sales soared 9.4% last month from July of 2012. Kay says phooey.

According to him, 41,838 properties changed hands across the country in July, which is a .02% decrease, not a 9.4% increase. “The Canadian housing market remains in declining territory,” he says. In fact, Ross maintains sales have gone down twelve times in the last 12 months, even with the pop just experienced as moist, new buyers rushed to beat higher mortgage rates.

“The number of local markets where sales declined on a month-over-month basis was far greater than those where audited activity actually increased in July. Minor changes in Greater Toronto and a recovery in Greater Vancouver resulted in a smaller decrease at the national level than was anticipated.”

And what about the higher prices realtors have been suggesting heralds a resumption in real estate’s relentless climb?

Faulty data, says Kay. When a small army of delusional GenXers go to battle over semis in Toronto costing $800,000, and as sales in Van’s doomed market are included, it totally masks the fact prices are going down areas from the south coast of BC to that of Nova Scotia.

“While the nationally available resale housing market has tightened in recent months, we remain firmly entrenched in the early stages of what traditionally is a buyers’ market. The fact Price increases are still occurring, is the result of new outside pressures in the market, not being disclosed to consumers, creating a false impression that prices will continue to go up, even though the market has already crossed to the buyer’s advantage.”

Hmm. Is he a kook? Beats me. But Kay’s been in real estate for 25 years, the third generation in his family to do so. Meanwhile this pathetic blog has already published ample evidence that real estate boards count uncompleted sales as done deals, revise numbers retroactively and create Frankenumbers to mask current market trends.

Personal finances are deteriorating. Economic fundamentals grow worse. Rates rise. Debt swells. And we’re told real estate booms again. Nothing’s going to surprise me now.

***

Well, a few people have asked me to comment on this article. It was the Financial Post this week, written by Jason Heath, whose byline states he’s a fee-only financial advisor in Toronto.

Just to clarify, most ‘fee-only’ advisors will (for a fee, of course) review your situation and suggest changes, even a model portfolio. That’s cool. But most of them don’t actually put it together, monitor it, rebalance it or run it. In any case, I sure wouldn’t be asking Jason for real estate advice after reading the piece.

The question is whether some schmuck should use 100% financing to buy a $380,000 house in Calgary to rent out for about $1,900 a month. Of course doing so would create negative cash flow – about $8,500 ($7,658 after tax credit) a year. And that’s even without factoring in closing costs, occasional vacancies, future mortgage rate increases or, of course, the cost of retrieving pet snakes from inside the walls.

Troubled Jason says getting rental income from a house is like receiving dividends from a stock. “In much the same way, Royal Bank is paying a 4% dividend and BCE a 5.6% dividend, this rental property is paying a 6% dividend.” Except, of course, rental income is fully taxed as earned income at the personal marginal rate, while dividends attract half the tax, thanks to the dividend tax credit. Oh, did I mention the article says Jason is “an income tax professional”? Uh-huh.

Miraculously, the doomed investor is told it’s actually a profitable thing to buy this money-losing investment with 100% financing, because real estate always goes up. A 3% increase in the value of the house will offset the monthly bleed, which means that a fat annual loss is actually a fabulous gain.

I love this paragraph:

The way I’d analyze this investment is that it cost him $7,658 to get $18,255 – an investment return of 138%. Over 10 years, Chris will invest $75,438 net to increase his net equity by $211,191 — an annual return of 18%. And over 20 years, his outlay to his net equity earns him an annual return of 9%.

Forget the risk of his 100% financing costs rising (which is about 100%), or the fact he’s buying real estate at the top of the market (and 0% growth will be lucky), or that the CRA will disallow deductible losses since there is no expectation of profit, Jason says buy.

An annual loss becomes a 9% return for 20 years. Only in Canada. We’re screwed.

163 comments ↓

#1 TO and GTA Sales and stats 2013-08-16 on 08.16.13 at 6:49 pm

TO and GTA Stats and Sales 2013/08/16
http://recharts.blogspot.ca/2013/08/416905-condo-sales-and-stats-2013-08-16_16.html
http://recharts.blogspot.ca/2013/08/905-sfh-sales-and-stats-2013-08-16.html
http://recharts.blogspot.ca/2013/08/416-sfh-sales-and-stats-2013-08-16.html

#2 Rob on 08.16.13 at 6:52 pm

This correction should have taken place a few years ago. How long can CREA and the media keep this RE market from facing reality.

#3 Screwed on 08.16.13 at 6:53 pm

I read that article the other day, I agree, we are screwed! Real estate mentality is crazy, run for the exits.

#4 AlioshaParen on 08.16.13 at 6:56 pm

Of course real estate boards lie! Another example besides yours Garth, is TREB overestimating sales by almost 5% in Toronto in todays mid August report as they compare original numbers to the revised.

#5 Bob on 08.16.13 at 6:57 pm

What about this article from the Financial Post

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/08/13/family-finance-her-situation-sounds-desperate-and-it-is/

YIKES!! I wonder how many other people in BC are in similar circumstances.

#6 Leedog on 08.16.13 at 7:01 pm

Great post.

Pet Snakes – Too soon.

#7 Patient in Richmond on 08.16.13 at 7:02 pm

More and More Condo project being developed here in Richmond BC. Who will buy all these empty condo’s ?

Some houses have sold lately … I wonder what the fall will bring ?

#8 Brad J Lam on 08.16.13 at 7:04 pm

you are kind of early Garth….great post, as usual!

Am I fuurst?

#9 Annoyed on 08.16.13 at 7:05 pm

Media and CREA lack integrity and ethics. All this false information, when the market adjusts and we look back as to who to blame I hope they are held accountable or will they all walk like Wall Street after the financial crises. I hope for a hard landing, RE horny people deserve it and RE agents welcome to the Employment Insurance Office, please take a number.

#10 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.16.13 at 7:07 pm

This is why you should only pick an Advisor that is rich. Some speculating schmuck has no idea how to build and preserve wealth.

#11 Bill Gable on 08.16.13 at 7:09 pm

Delusional. That is the only word to describe Mr. Heath. It’s one thing to blow your own money in something this stupid – but to tell the great unwashed this his fairy tale is reality is something bordering on sociopathic.

#12 CalgaryGuy on 08.16.13 at 7:09 pm

I read this article in the National Post. Jason Heath is such a fraud. By halfway through the article, I was laughing at the financial gymnastics Jason was using to make this a “worthwhile investment”. If the questioner follows Jason’s advice it will be one more shining example of a fool being soon parted from his money. Keep going Garth, you are an island of sanity in a real estate ocean of stupidity.

#13 Smartalox on 08.16.13 at 7:09 pm

I don’t get it: why would CREA lie to paint a rosy picture of the markets? Won’t this just inspire more measures to ‘cool’ the housing market, thus bringing about the very conditions that they are trying to cover up?

Strategic fail.

#14 johnny m on 08.16.13 at 7:11 pm

The higher they climb the harder they will fall. I feel sorry for the poor young people who are being led astray if in fact they are. Something as important as number of house sales, prices etc should be audited to ensure accuracy. If found not to be accurate, jail terms would suffice as punishment. Iv been through 19% mortgages and I certainly will not be advising anyone to buy right now.

#15 Mr. Monday Night on 08.16.13 at 7:11 pm

No, we’re not all screwed. Just those people who overextended themselves will be. The rest of us will just buy less of a house but one we can afford.

I remember in the 80s when everyone was going for smaller and cheaper depending on what they could afford, and doing renos as they went along. It can happen again, not everyone needs SSG for their ‘starter’ home.

#16 Yahoo on 08.16.13 at 7:15 pm

Number 1 or ?, CREA can’t get their number right !

#17 Josef on 08.16.13 at 7:20 pm

First!!! Oh Yeah!!! Josef #1 Garlieber is FIRST!!!

#18 Catalyst on 08.16.13 at 7:21 pm

That financial post article was funny indeed. At no point did he stop and say, hmm maybe 100% financing investments isn’t always a great idea.

What regulatory body holds the number crunchers accountable? If they are not held accountable or mandated to follow a specific calculation method, of course you are never going to get ‘Real’ numbers.

I am an analyst for a living and believe me, the spin I have to put on some reports makes me dizzy. Accepting a graphic or chart without questioning how it was arrived at, what outliers were excluded, what assumptions were made, always paints a misleading picture. Unless we are given raw data to dissect on our own, don’t count on ever getting an accurate picture.

#19 DV01 on 08.16.13 at 7:21 pm

Indeed

#20 Billy on 08.16.13 at 7:22 pm

Garth, sweetheart, honey. Don’t have a cow that all real estate across Canada is in a negative position. We all know you’d love it to be, perhaps want it to be. That some people continue to buy and sell is not your choice. That everyone in Toronto and Vancouver are in negative equity positions in 5 days or less is also a pipe dream. You can continue the diatribe about how much people stand to lose on transactions now. But what happens when somebody sells? What then? Are they too stupid for selling and buying a cheaper home? Who are you to predetermine market conditions in a free market system. You act as if you are responsible for real estate values in Canada. You have no control over those values. That’s got nothing to do with you. This blog is useless.

No it’s not. You came. — Garth

#21 Billy on 08.16.13 at 7:25 pm

That someone is capable of selling a home in either Toronto or Vancouver must be deplorable for you to keep clinging to your position of zero sales. Markets gone tits up mentality.

#22 Texas boy on 08.16.13 at 7:26 pm

That column was about as ridiculous as asking a 21 year old shopaholic for fincial responsibility advice. Anyone can run the numbers… You go to a financial advisor to get good advice On risk-adjusted return and how to balance… Absolutely unbelievable… 100% financing is good because it will go up 3% a year…
A friend of mine has made a lot of money being a slum lord. He says you buy an investment property for yield (in parts of the US) or for price appreciation (other parts). Never both!

#23 Joe Smith Canuck on 08.16.13 at 7:27 pm

It is different in Saskatoon… because it is different.
All I see is people driving around in their big-ass diesel trucks with loud exhaust pipes. Everyone is boasting about how much their house increased value over the last few years.

#24 Donald Trump on 08.16.13 at 7:33 pm

FUR–zztt

Get it?

#25 Tim on 08.16.13 at 7:34 pm

At 100% financing the only real question he needs to answer is ‘Is one rental property enough?

#26 DV01 on 08.16.13 at 7:35 pm

Aug #’s looking strong in Vancouver so far. Sure looks like a lot of demand is being pulled forward by marginal pre-apps jumping in on current/anticipated rate hikes, not to mention the lows it’s bouncing up from. Certainly isn’t a seasonal trend. Looks like the bull-trap is in motion. Then we’ll see a “return-to-normal”. Is *hope* a valid investment strategy?

#27 Vangrrl on 08.16.13 at 7:35 pm

In Gary, Indiana, in an effort to revitalize that dead city, the gov’t is having a lottery program, selling homes for 1 dollar, provided applicants agree to stay for at least 5 yrs and renovate the homes to the tune of 50 grand or so.

#28 Renter's Revenge! on 08.16.13 at 7:36 pm

Fur-est!

Sweeeeet, hover-cats rock, dude!

Is that a metaphor for the Canadian housing market, or what? No wait, that’s too obvious… and weird :)

#29 Why not? — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Estate | The Affluent Boomer™ on 08.16.13 at 7:38 pm

[…] via Why not? — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Estate. […]

#30 Brian Ripley on 08.16.13 at 7:39 pm

My monthly Scorecard of percentage change in sales (and prices and listings from the various RE boards) of the 6 biggest CAD metro markets:
http://www.chpc.biz/scorecard.html
…shows that in July, combined residential, 2 of 6 had both positive Y/Y & M/M gains in sales and 2 out of 6 had the opposite. The other 2 were split, down M/M but up Y/Y.

So it depends on where you are.

What looks more ominous to me is the continuing erosion of cash buyers in the ETF housing sectors including the Chinese ETF (TAO): http://www.chpc.biz/2/post/2013/08/housing-recovery-update.html

#31 Exilled on 08.16.13 at 7:41 pm

Mr Turner: Question : There can’t be that many Virgins left!Like who now hasn’t already owned a first property? The demographic of first time buyers can’t be more than 3% of the population, so small as to not be in the evaluation at all! Doesn’t make sense! Am I mmissing something?

#32 Catalyst on 08.16.13 at 7:43 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/16/households-cut-energy-use-prices-soar

Going to be tough to do in Canada…

#33 waiting on 08.16.13 at 7:49 pm

Ironically, after the advice Heath gives that guy, he has this advice for a couple thinking about investing $100,000 in a REIT saying he worries about diversification. “With $100,000 to invest, I don’t think I’d be considering a private REIT. It’s kind of like going to the roulette table and putting all your money on red”

So it’s ok to borrow $380,000 to put into another single investment?

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/18/ask-us-should-i-sink-all-my-money-in-a-reit/

#34 Standard Deviation on 08.16.13 at 7:49 pm

A suggestion: – all calculations from CREA should be modified with a gravitational constant to bring them down to earth:)
One cannot believe anything, and I mean anything that is published by institutions or organizations that have anything to do with money.
Credibility has left the planet.

#35 Godth on 08.16.13 at 7:51 pm

Just had a conversation with the debtlord in the unfinished basement, lolz, the show that never stops. Our water began to trickle out of the bathroom sink taps a couple months ago, we reported this via the proper channels (or complained as they put it, any problem is a complaint – sky-light leaking – complaint, lol). They just had the fix-it guy in to check the system, turns out the water pressure modulator in the main house is pooched and we’re an add-on. In Vancouverite lingo “this event wasn’t on the timeline horizon, it costs a thousand bucks”, in other news they’re broke and it will be repaired at some point in the future (along with the well pump replaced). The debtlord couple in the main house also own a rental in Van. The debtlord trolls below us 5-6 properties in Van. and some in Sask. apparently (it’s all in the family). Every thousand bucks is sink or swim. Oh Canada, our home an ignorant land, true debt we love, in all our irresponsible hands.

btw, the birds are loving the ripening grapes in the vineyard, the nets are still being repaired after being left up until Dec. last year. The snow fell, posts down and nets torn under the weight. God bless the children, mid 50’s playing video games all day getting rich on property. What a world to behold.

#36 Siva on 08.16.13 at 7:58 pm

9.4% increase is highly unlikely. Home ownership is already 70%, unless Martians are buying Canadian RE it ain’t true. When the US RE market imploded home ownership rate was 69.50%, its 70% in Canada now. Only way canadian RE will go is down!

#37 JimH on 08.16.13 at 8:01 pm

#25 DV01
“…Looks like the bull-trap is in motion. Then we’ll see a “return-to-normal”. Is *hope* a valid investment strategy?”
====================================
Totally agree! A ‘Perfect Storm’ classic ‘Bull Trap’!

When I was a rookie investor/trader back in the 1990’s, the vicious ‘Bull Trap’ scenario caught me by the short&curlies more than once before I learned that discipline should always trump conviction!

Buying in at the second [lower] ‘double-top’ peak will ruin a great number of ‘greater fools’!

#38 Daisy Mae on 08.16.13 at 8:06 pm

2 Rob: “This correction should have taken place a few years ago. How long can CREA and the media keep this RE market from facing reality.”

***********************

Oh, CREA is well aware what the realty is. However, they’re extremely desperate and will say and do anything to save their ‘sorry asses’ at our expense. This is going to blow up in their collective faces at some point. And that is when they lose what little remaining creditability they have.

#39 Pat on 08.16.13 at 8:13 pm

Capital City Centre project in Colwood Victoira BC on hold with 90% of residential units sold Hm

#40 len on 08.16.13 at 8:17 pm

The largest exodus from Canadian bonds since 2007 – what impact will that have on mortgage rates?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/foreign-investors-bailing-out-of-canadian-bonds/article13824390/

#41 Daisy Mae on 08.16.13 at 8:20 pm

#12 CalgaryGuy: “If the questioner follows Jason’s advice it will be one more shining example of a fool being soon parted from his money. Keep going Garth, you are an island of sanity in a real estate ocean of stupidity.”

*********************

My sentiments exactly.

#42 NoName on 08.16.13 at 8:25 pm

#32 Catalyst on 08.16.13 at 7:43 pm

Same thing happened here few yrs back

” It filed an application to the Ontario Energy Board to raise the rate by 6.3% starting on May 1. In February, it sought a 0.4% increase. If approved, the additional fees would cost the average consumer an additional $2.21 per month and would recover lost revenue from conservation initiatives such as the smart meter plan”

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=a4cc0575-e846-408a-9c84-0f47880330ff

and if i tell you that there is a gov. plan that pays corporations to idle to preserve hydro in high or peak demand time in a day you probably would not believe me. and on top of that it gives them hydro at discount because they (corp) joined a plan.

http://www.ecoissues.ca/index.php/Rethinking_Energy_Conservation_in_Ontario_%E2%80%93_Results:Ontario_Power_Authority_Demand_Response_Programs

we all have priorities, and both level of gov. favor corporations over the citizens. oh well…

#43 Marginal on 08.16.13 at 8:26 pm

“or that the CRA will disallow deductible losses since there is no expectation of profit,….”
————————————————————— Wish it were true. These days, CRA is more intent on nabbing lost revenue on restaurant tips (pity all those students) and cash basis type flex jobs. I guess it’s a better diversionary tactic (hey…look over here) than continuing to mine those lists of offshore tax avoiders.

Just imagine the uproar, if CRA under the current government started to lower the boom on small holding landlords (the ones who couldn’t sell their house but have to move for a job but would rent for anything they could get) during a housing downturn. Even F would cringe.

#44 mark on 08.16.13 at 8:26 pm

Taking on a whole hunk of debt is considered diversifying your portfolio?

Thanks Jason.

#45 bigrider on 08.16.13 at 8:37 pm

“As sure asa de Italiano bakeries maka da best bread ina dis a city, ima tella you dat da real estate price she’sa gonna go Up UPPA UPPAA !!! ” a finito.

This is was the last and final thing my zia told me during a discussion recently, as I argued that prices for RE in the GTA were way over done.

None of my 300+ cousins in the banquet hall agreed with me.

#46 eddy on 08.16.13 at 8:50 pm

Don’t get mad at CREA or TREB, if you want to know what any given house sold for, any realtor will come to your house and tell you for free. Otherwise, in Ontario you can pay MPAC with your charge card, per house- now that’s an outrage

#47 Freedom First on 08.16.13 at 8:51 pm

Say it ain’t so Jason!

Garth, thank you again! The list of people/organizations you publicly expose and strip naked for the whole world to see continues to grow.

Sooooo, we know that these people/organizations, are either: 1) incompetent, 2) unethical liars, 3)psychopaths, or 4) morons, who actually believe what they are told to say.

Garth, I am not a gambler, but if I was, I would bet that the amount of hate mail you are presently receiving has shown a noticeable spike. I am concerned for your welfare Garth, seeing what happens to the whistle blowers nowadays in Canada and world wide. In many countries in the world, unfortunately, you would already be in jail. I am glad you are a very public figure, but even still, to do what you do takes steel balls. Thank you! …….Freedom First.

#48 Babblemaster on 08.16.13 at 8:57 pm

“The fact price increases are still occurring, is the result of new outside pressures in the market, not being disclosed to consumers, creating a false impression that prices will continue to go up, even though the market has already crossed to the buyer’s advantage.” – Ross Kay

—————————————————————-

What “outside pressures?” Like a mother-in-law?

#49 Adam on 08.16.13 at 8:58 pm

You can just picture the first day that REALTORS have to publish the fact that average selling prices are down YOY – “Buyer’s market – now’s your chance!” There’ll never be a negative headline.

#50 Babblemaster on 08.16.13 at 9:07 pm

#15 Mr. Monday Night

No, we’re not all screwed. Just those people who overextended themselves will be.

—————————————————————-

In the US of A, Obama bailed out underwater folks with taxpayer money. Actually, with fake money that he had created with the stroke of a pen and had added to the debt. Harper, or any replacement, would do the same in Canada. In the end we will all pay.

#51 Habs76-79 on 08.16.13 at 9:07 pm

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Winston Churchill.

Sir Winston Churchill summed it all up well with his quote. The truth always reveals itself in life… It’s too bad many people get hurt by not believing nor seeing it.

#52 Babblemaster on 08.16.13 at 9:13 pm

#20 Billy

Who are you to predetermine market conditions in a free market system.

—————————————————————

Free Market System??????????????

Hardly. For starters, have you heard of CMHC and how assume risk on bank financed mortgages?

#53 not 1st on 08.16.13 at 9:14 pm

“Do real estate boards lie? I mean, if they quietly revise numbers, or include dodgy data then feed those to the national body, which then issues monthly reports the media slathers over, who will be the wiser?”

You mean just like they do with the GDP, or inflation numbers or employment figures?

#54 Babblemaster on 08.16.13 at 9:20 pm

#31 Exilled

Mr Turner: Question : There can’t be that many Virgins left!Like who now hasn’t already owned a first property? The demographic of first time buyers can’t be more than 3% of the population, so small as to not be in the evaluation at all! Doesn’t make sense! Am I missing something?

————————————————————–

Yes, you are missing something. Namely, the 300+ thousand immigrants who come to Canada yearly. And a large chunk of those come to Toronto. Almost all the immigrants I know buy houses. In the IT industry, practically everyone I work with is a immigrant.

#55 Rubic on 08.16.13 at 9:21 pm

Great blog post, as usually, Garth! A friend of mine just bought a condo in Vancouver, and once the deal was done (1bdr in Yaletown, original price $560,000, sold for $520,000), the realtor asked if she can put $545,000 as a sell price on MLS. It looks like realtors can report whatever numbers they want. I wonder how often does this happen in this screwed up market, and what prevents other realtors or even the whole real estate boards to massively fudge the numbers.

#56 live within your means on 08.16.13 at 9:23 pm

TOT

Seriously thinking of divorcing my husband. I’ll ask fior advice later. Thankfully. I rec’d so many funny jokes today. One of them:

My inconclusive travel plans for 2013

I have been in many places, but I’ve never been in Cahoots. Apparently, you can’t go alone. You have to be in Cahoots with someone.

I’ve also never been in Cognito. I hear no one recognizes you there.

I have, however, been in Sane. They don’t have an airport; you have to be driven there. I have made several trips there, thanks to my friends, family and work.

I would like to go to Conclusions, but you have to jump, and I’m not too much on physical activity anymore.

I have also been in Doubt. That is a sad place to go, and I try not to visit there too often.

I’ve been in Flexible, but only when it was very important to stand firm.

Sometimes I’m in Capable, and I go there more often as I’m getting older.

One of my favorite places to be is in Suspense! It really gets the adrenalin flowing and pumps up the old heart! At my age I need all the stimuli I can get!

And, sometimes I think I am in Vincible but life shows me I am not.

People keep telling me I’m in Denial but I’m positive I’ve never been there before!

I may have been in Continent, but I don’t remember what country I was in. It’s an age thing. They tell me it is very wet and damp there.

I have been in Deepshit many times; the older I get, the easier it is to get there.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
PLEASE DO YOUR PART!
Today is one of the many National Mental Health Days throughout the year. You can do your bit by remembering to send an e-mail to at least one unstable person. My job is done! You might want to adopt this rule for your everyday behavior: “Life is short. Smile while you still have your teeth.”
From one unstable person to another… I hope everyone is happy in your head – we’re all doing pretty well in mine!

#57 Crowded House on 08.16.13 at 9:26 pm

Don’t Dream, It’s Over!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/foreign-investors-bailing-out-of-canadian-bonds/article13824390/

#58 Crowded House on 08.16.13 at 9:26 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZZfuCJ970w

#59 Gg on 08.16.13 at 9:26 pm

Do real estate boards lie? I mean, if they quietly revise numbers, or include dodgy data then feed those to the national body, which then issues monthly reports the media slathers over, who will be the wiser?
……
Sounds like the GDP and employment reports out of the US that you have so much faith in.

Too much scrutiny. — Garth

#60 Crowded House on 08.16.13 at 9:28 pm

Garth, if this was the States, wouldn’t someone have taken legal action against CREA by now? Wouldn’t there be a massive class action for fraud? Do you expect this to happen soon?

#61 not 1st on 08.16.13 at 9:32 pm

Garth, this article predicts DOW coming up shortly, DOW 50,000 if this go better than planned.

http://www.businessinsider.com/seth-masters-dow-20000-2013-8

#62 crazed and a little confused on 08.16.13 at 9:35 pm

Hi giys,

I done my own searching thru MLS in the lower mainland area
2010 1BD/ 1wash t/h from $299K
now $245K.
i know its farther from what most people want and a little smaller but i dont see the price increase either . Vancouver proper is still crazy.

i call bullshit.

with 20 % down on housing , garth prediction …hhmm. you can he’s right or wrong.
1 side garth says 5-20 %
other side real estate is local
but my price to rent ratio is 31…thats a no buy folks

#63 TurnerNation on 08.16.13 at 9:38 pm

Wanna house using 2% down?

You are richer than you think at the Maroon bank.

Note: couple in pic are couched in debt. Thumbing through the Harper Government Economic Action Plan freebie manual.

https://www.cibc.com/ca/focus/spring-13/mortgage-offer.html?

#64 Marginal on 08.16.13 at 9:46 pm

#10 T.O.BubbleBoy
“This is why you should only pick an Advisor that is rich.”
—————————————————————–
If that is your primary criteria for selecting an investment advisor, then I suggest that Bernie Madoff (who was very very rich) is the man for you. Oops, unfortunately, I believe he has been “taken”.

#65 Sideline Sitter on 08.16.13 at 9:51 pm

“Kay’s been in real estate for 25 years, the third generation in his family to do so”

Same here… my brother is third generation, and over 25 years in RE. he said it’s craziness to buy now, and I believe him.

The other day I posted that I was going to see a place and offer 26% below asking… well, I saw it… and my offer would be closer to 45% below asking.

YIKES.

#66 Smoking Man on 08.16.13 at 10:03 pm

The tugstress sneaks in the back door, shades and hat on.

As the tugstress rapidly pays off the degree, dreams of one day to be an fte, paying taxes, fitting in with the normals.

What a nightmare, the later part.

Sex workers are looked down by society yet they provide a valuable service.

Before rub shops and back page, rapes where a common occurrence, ugly men, crazy men, men with warts on there face, walked the world ready to explode.. Now for a few bucks there beast is exorcised out.

They live a somewhat inclusive life.

I an like all the losers out their thank you for making this a better place for all of us.

Specially me.

Told you I would talk about you tonight dawn…

She’s a blog dog fan. Loves Garth.
:)

#67 Unplugged on 08.16.13 at 10:03 pm

The question here is all about the data.. The advantage that large organizations such as the CREA capitalize on is the fact that the general public (target market) believe anything that comes from an “official” source. Very few people question the data, question the methodology used to compile the data and of course what “corrections” have been applied. Why do I say this? I have made a healthy living in the past through “data analysis”… people fall for ANYTHING.

Have you considered the data?

#68 Godth on 08.16.13 at 10:13 pm

57 live within your means

That was good. I vacillate wondering if I’m unstable or the world around me is batshit crazy. My debtlords provide ballast as they order a backhoe with an auger drill and promptly hit the underground irragation, lolz.
The universe has a sense of humour. I do my best to smile along with it.

#69 jaguar on 08.16.13 at 10:14 pm

Thanks to Smartalox on yesterdays blog and the reference to the Vanity Fair piece about the crash in housing in Ireland. Compelling, especially the part about complicity on the part of the media …The journalists were following the bankers lead and conflating a positive outlook on real estate prices with a love of country and a commitment to Team Ireland…..

Also, the part about an Irish bank analyst saying they did not have any Subprime, but that in the general buying frenzy all of Ireland had become Subprime.
In other words, even though Canadian lenders might say they have not duplicated the subprime lending practices of the USA to individual borrowers, but the inflated home prices and financing made to marginal borrowers in low interest rate environments amounts to the same thing. As the article states…….Otherwise sound Irish borrowers had been rendered unsound by the size of the loans they had taken out to buy inflated Irish property……sounds familiar….

#70 Ford Prefect on 08.16.13 at 10:17 pm

Garth: previously posted on VCI but applicable to today’s topic.

Frequently posters on this site express concern about the accuracy of the figures presented by the real estate boards. And with good reason, as an article in the Comox Valley Echo on Aug. 12, 2013 shows.

VIREB reports that there are around 970 residential properties, of all types, for sale in July in the Comox Valley. My own figures show around 1,200 units. Marty Douglas, managing broker of Re/Max Ocean Pacific Realty in the Comox Valley reports in the Echo that “There are just over 1,500 residential properties currently on the market in the Valley.” This figure shows a discrepancy of over 50% from the VIREB figure!

I think Douglas, one of the most senior real estate agents in the Valley and a tireless real estate humper (perhaps the Comox Valley equivalent of Brad Lamb) is about right except he probably is not including building lots in which case the true figure would be around 1,750 properties.

#71 ILoveCharts on 08.16.13 at 10:17 pm

Wow Smoking Man… wow.

On the other hand, too bad there is no tugstress for my housing horniness.

I am a virgin. Next week I buy. Granite countertops and in-suite laundry will finally satisfy my growing urges.

#72 Fisc on 08.16.13 at 10:19 pm

Quebec condo market implodes:

“Conversely, condo prices are struggling to advance and have even pulled back in some agglomerations. Demand for this type of housing has been dropping in the last year and the number of units on the market has skyrocketed. The number of condos sold in the province fell 15% in the first half of the year, and the number of listings with real estate agents climbed 25%. Reduced demand and increased supply
have led to a surplus in the condo markets of Quebec’s
six CMAs. The rise by prices is now in neutral in the province, while they have started to edge down in Montréal (graph 3). The drop by new construction came too late to keep prices from going down, but it should help prevent an overly sharp correction.”

http://www.desjardins.com/en/a_propos/etudes_economiques/conjoncture_quebec/indice_habitation/zoom0815a.pdf

#73 Cristian on 08.16.13 at 10:29 pm

“… most ‘fee-only’ advisors will (for a fee, of course) review your situation and suggest changes, even a model portfolio. That’s cool. But most of them don’t actually put it together, monitor it, rebalance it or run it.”

Actually, Garth, that is not true.
Most fee-only advisors are of the kind that are compensated by a percentage of the portfolio value. It is rather difficult to find an advisor who charge an hourly fee. I haven’t found one so far.

Don’t confuse ‘fee-only’ and ‘fee-based.’ — Garth

#74 PeterfromCalgary on 08.16.13 at 10:30 pm

I don’t know how things work in every province but in Alberta we have a land titles office. If a house changes hands you register that with the land titles office. So they should have stats on how many house actually changed hands.

Couldn’t someone with a lot of time and a love of details (not me) check the real estates boards numbers and compare them to the numbers from the land titles office? Or is that data confidential?

#75 Marginal on 08.16.13 at 10:30 pm

#67 SM

ROTFL @ you……I guess you felt you weren’t getting enough attention on this blog………

True Confessions….no…Dr. Ruth is far better.

#76 Cristian on 08.16.13 at 10:36 pm

Smoking Man… You should have chosen the sobriquet Illiterate Man, the only thing that’s smoking is your spelling… an like for unlike, their for there and there for their… WOW!

#77 Canadian Watchdog on 08.16.13 at 10:45 pm

A few great stories from indebted Canadians.  

Time618a

Well it's finally caught up to me…,time to pay the piper;

I'm filing a proposal next Wednesday; owe about 73k unsecured, have a pension coming in plus a good job' was hoping to retire in two years but that's not going to happen; my proposal will be offering $1000 a month for five years (advised by the trustee as my cash flow will allow me to afford it…) but I will be trying to pay it off over 36 months; my trustee has calculated that this is a good offer & the creditors should be getting about 75% of what they are owed; I've been going too many years with the thought "Sure I can afford the payments…" but once retirement approached it was a rude awakening; anyway wish me luck, I hope they'll accept my offer; I've never missed a payment except for this month I stopped paying as I knew I would be filing a proposal; cheers

Jim

barkalot

hi

I am married and  our home is paid for.
I have over $50,000 in credit card debt and a private loan for $55,000 that I pay the interest on twice a year.
I have had a drastic decrease in income due to one business I opened not doing well and having to close.
My other business also the sales have declined.
This is how I got in this mess.
My husband did not sign for any of the charge cards.
What are my options?
A proposal, bankruptcy?
How does either work if we own our home.
The debt is mine not his, I do not want him to suffer also.
Thanks

blondie

Hello,

This is a super stressful time and I am just trying to figure out the best options. I have about $70,000 in Credit card, line of credit and consolidation loans.

I have gone to see people about debt management and consumer proposal. I think my only option is going to be CP because one of my creditors BMO is now send me to collections and is not playing nice, my other creditors have been willing to make payment arragements with me but for some reason BMO will not agree to arragnements are now threatening to put a lien on my house etc. I have a consolidation loan that has my car as security so the question is do I do a CP with the consolidation loan or try and do it without. I cannot sell the car and my last resort ever will be bankruptcy.

I would love to hear from those that have gone through this, any advice and tips that you are willing to share to help me decide if I should file fo CP would be greatly apprecaited.

I have to break the news to my spouse soon as he is not aware of how bad my debt have become and so that is another added stress. It won't affect his credit but i will now have bad credit for at least 8 years which will affect us.

Glad to have found this support group as its made me feel a bit better than i am not the only one in this situation.

Thanks!

Canada. It's different here.

#78 TheCatFoodLady on 08.16.13 at 10:51 pm

A blog photo after my own heart! Could be my cat’s good tempered sibling. This is a ‘bubble cat’ in the spring loaded, pissed off position, ready to slash & dash if it hits the ground hard.

Fat cats shouldn’t be bubbling up & there WILL be consequences.

As it will with foaming housing markets.

#79 Canadian Watchdog on 08.16.13 at 11:23 pm

#61 Crowded House

Garth, if this was the States, wouldn’t someone have taken legal action against CREA by now? Wouldn’t there be a massive class action for fraud?

Ahhh, finally someone asks the right question. Below is what must happen before Canada ever sees unbiased statistics and Zillow type real estate sites.

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SUES NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS

We tried, and got this.

Competition Tribunal Dismisses Abuse of Dominance Case Against The Toronto Real Estate Board

Because somebody in Ottawa didn't like this woman who opened the case, so they made sure she wasn't in charge anymore, and so she unexpectedly quit. 

Melanie Aitken to quit as Canada’s Competition Commissioner

That's how Crony Canada rolls folks. Get used to it.

#80 Marginal on 08.16.13 at 11:24 pm

#77 Cristian

I think this is all part of the Gonzo style of writing, unfortunately and sad to say, even Hunter S. Thompson was better than SM.

#81 Smoking Man on 08.16.13 at 11:35 pm

#77 Cristian on 08.16.13 at 10:36 pm

Smoking Man… You should have chosen the sobriquet Illiterate Man, the only thing that’s smoking is your spelling… an like for unlike, their for there and there for their… WOW!

……..

If I could spell I would be god. No one’s perfect

#82 Crowded House on 08.16.13 at 11:35 pm

When do you see the CMHC reducing it’s coverage limit to $500,000 or $250,000 Garth?

#83 Stop it please on 08.16.13 at 11:40 pm

Garth, we have morons 24 places down the comments section posting “first”. Time for a crack down? It’s been getting pretty stupid lately.

#84 Seriously? on 08.17.13 at 12:54 am

Now if that was a pig flying…that would be all of the proof everbody would ever need…to keep on being stupid.

Seriously?

#85 Cici on 08.17.13 at 1:06 am

#56 Babblemaster

Outside pressures may be a number of things, including:

-The threat of rising mortgage rates effectively pushing fools into a rushed and pre-approved buying decision
-People who haven’t had luck selling taking their houses off the market until next spring in hopes of “better times,” thereby pushing supply down while pre-approved and panicked virgins push prices up
-Big-time speculators selling to each other and/or temporarily taking supply off the market in an effort to rig market conditions and stats.

#86 In the cold from Toronto on 08.17.13 at 1:08 am

Prices are coming down in good neighborhoods in Toronto.

This apartment has been listed – at least – since April (that’s when I started to keep track). Then the asking price was $749,000. Today, it’s $649,000.

If you want to check it out: apartment 1902 on 70 High Park Avenue…

The equivalent renting cost is around $2859 (assuming an interest only mortgage at 3%, and accounting for condo fees, hydro and taxes).

A 3 bedroom with Minto – across the street at 35 High park is $2400… so the price has to drop some more… or the seller has to find a greater fool.

#87 Cici on 08.17.13 at 1:18 am

oops, meant #49

But seriously Babblemaster, look at #56 all the same for another source of “outside pressure,” i.e. realtors fibbing on the final sale price. And it’s definitely not the first time I’ve heard of that.

#88 Scibidubadebumbado on 08.17.13 at 1:58 am

When is our Government going to wake up and regulate these liars and thieves.
When you pump and dump stocks you are STEALING wealth from those that worked hard to earn it.
When you lie with statistics to coax the peons to enter a bidding war, you are STEALING money from them.
Money is life. It takes years to save another $100,000.00 that is stolen from you by fraud.
How can anyone look at it another way. There is no grey area in FRAUD.

#89 bigrider on 08.17.13 at 6:33 am

#66 Sideline Sitter on 08.16.13 at 9:51 pm
“Kay’s been in real estate for 25 years, the third generation in his family to do so”

Same here… my brother is third generation, and over 25 years in RE. he said it’s craziness to buy now, and I believe him.

The other day I posted that I was going to see a place and offer 26% below asking… well, I saw it… and my offer would be closer to 45% below asking.

YIKES.
——————————————————————
To you both :

My family , ancestors and people have been in construction since the days before Christ, the Roman Empire and the Roman Colosseum . As the centuries past they built church after church including the Sistine chapel !

They all say it’s a good time to BUY RE !

One of my many uncles the other day said that it was quote ‘a gooda tima to buy reala stata ” and that if I asked him again in 1, 2, 5 or 10(tena) years from now that quote” he’sa gonna tella mea da same a ting ” unquote.

#90 AK on 08.17.13 at 7:10 am

#37 JimH on 08.16.13 at 8:01 pm
#25 DV01
“…Looks like the bull-trap is in motion. Then we’ll see a “return-to-normal”. Is *hope* a valid investment strategy?”
====================================
“Totally agree! A ‘Perfect Storm’ classic ‘Bull Trap’!

When I was a rookie investor/trader back in the 1990′s, the vicious ‘Bull Trap’ scenario caught me by the short&curlies more than once before I learned that discipline should always trump conviction!

Buying in at the second [lower] ‘double-top’ peak will ruin a great number of ‘greater fools’!”
====================================
Listen Guys,

Timing the market is a mug’s game. The S&P 500 is trading at a forward PE of around 15, hardly an overbought territory.
This is not 2000 when the PE was at 28. As I said before, the S&P 500 is in the early stages of a secular Bull Market.
Granted, there will be corrections as nothing goes up in a straight line. The corrections should be used as buying opportunities for real investors.

#91 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.17.13 at 7:28 am

Now I’m wondering: does Smoking Man actually go to the trouble of tuning off all spell checking on every device he uses to type?

#92 45north on 08.17.13 at 7:57 am

Tim: At 100% financing the only real question he needs to answer is Is one rental property enough?

pretty funny

Len: The largest exodus from Canadian bonds since 2007 – what impact will that have on mortgage rates?

they’re going up

Bigrider: None of my cousins in the banquet hall agreed with me.

was the banquet hall around highway 7 and Islington?

#93 The Big M on 08.17.13 at 9:17 am

In the real world, if someone calls someone else or some group (CREA) a liar, then they should have the facts to back it up.

Like the old saying goes; put up or shut up

I did. — Garth

#94 bigrider on 08.17.13 at 9:32 am

Tried again Garth. Just got off the phone with one of my uncles. I told him about your website. He read it. This is what he had to say :

” Disa Garth Turner ..he needa to buy a bunsena burner to burn what he awrite. Ima tella u, I maka da milione and da milione ofa dollars , real moneta, from a da reala estata, just lika u other 35 uncles. Dei prezo ofa da reala estate ina da GTA she only gonna go Upa UPPA UPPPAA !!

He continued.

” I cannot astring two wordsa together lika dis very gooda writing froma Garth Turner very smarta guy with lotsa educazione, but da problem isa hesa been a wrong for a longs tima now and whata I tella you hasa been, and willa be right! ”

I didn’t want to challenge him on it anymore. I like my zias roasted peppers and I don’t want to be cut off.

#95 X on 08.17.13 at 10:02 am

Perhaps Jason could work for the CREA, his number crunching skills would work well for them.

What I really don’t understand is how a professional association cannot be held accountable in their actions. Is there no gov’t minister that oversees obvious self serving propoganda at the expense of uninformed peoples household debt.

#96 maxx on 08.17.13 at 10:16 am

#13 Smartalox on 08.16.13 at 7:09 pm

“Strategic fail”. Brilliantly put.

If anything, as a consumer, this throws an additional bucket of cold water at the mere prospect of buying property today. The RE cartel is the last body I’d rely on for market data.

Peddling more debt is the last refuge of an economy with deteriorating fundamentals. Debt is practically the only place left to get money. Debt and government intervention are in very large part propping up the economy.

Money is increasingly much harder to make and even more difficult to keep. Those with self-induced mortgage and consumer debt need to dig themselves out of the hole even before the possibility of positive net worth.

The main difference between saving and clawing your way out of debt is that saving is a completely positive trajectory, whereas climbing out of debt always carries heavy interest rate payments to lenders which makes the climb a looooooong way up- before even getting to zero.

Yesterday, I spoke with a lady selling her waterfront property privately. She was hoping that her son would buy it so that it would be kept in the family. He cannot buy because, even though he’s been earning an outstanding salary for years, he blew it all and is in debt. Said she: “It makes me sick and angry to think of the river of money he’s thrown away”.

Pity.

#97 Evangeline on 08.17.13 at 10:26 am

#92 “Now I’m wondering: does Smoking Man actually go to the trouble of tuning off all spell checking on every device he uses to type?”

maybe he uses the anti spell check?
http://www.procato.com/misspeller/

Garth, LOL!!! According to a recent study, a whopping 99.9% of red cats are *never* amused when they levitate. No one knows why not.

#98 maxx on 08.17.13 at 10:29 am

#24 Donald Trump on 08.16.13 at 7:33 pm

Super cute!

#99 JimH on 08.17.13 at 10:36 am

#91 AK
“Timing the market is a mug’s game. The S&P 500 is trading at a forward PE of around 15, hardly an overbought territory…..”
================================
AK, you totally misunderstood. The reference to ‘Bull Trap’ was clearly in reference to the current Canadian Real Estate market.

I agree that attempting market-timing the S&P500 generally is hit and miss at best, and might well be a losing proposition.

However, making decisions about entry points for positions in individual stocks/ETFs, and even taking distributions or re-balancing based on technical and fundamental indicators and analysis certainly is not!

#100 Evangeline on 08.17.13 at 10:41 am

#91 “Timing the market is a mug’s game.”

I think timing is important in the sense that buying when overpriced can be quite damaging and therefore should be avoided. (learned that the hard way.) Garth gave many signals that the U.S. market was ripe for the picking, and that was a good timing signal, imo.

#101 Babblemaster on 08.17.13 at 10:44 am

#86 Cici

I agree with all your points, but aren’t they really just part of the market conditions?

Anyway, I thought that “outside pressures” was a reference to something more nefarious like the outlaws.

#102 Evangeline on 08.17.13 at 10:56 am

Out with the old and in with the new! “When pigs can fly” is so yesterday! “When red cats can levitate” is so now!

#103 Calgary Boomer on 08.17.13 at 11:02 am

Meanwhile, back in Calgary…

2 weeks ago I looked at MLS on a NW section of the city that included 24 houses. Now there are 28 in the same map view and several have reduced their price, most only by less than 10k and one by 20k. Some I have seen listed for months. Doesn’t appear to be any shortage of houses here. Probably still priced too high. I’m sure all the factors GT mentions here are at work plus a slowdown as fall approaches. At least buyers can take their time. I do hear that rentals are hard to come by though, I guess to be expected with 30k people moving here last year but maybe also because LL are selling!

#104 Daisy Mae on 08.17.13 at 11:14 am

#39 Pinstripe: “We are in an era now where telling a LIE is accepted behaviour.”

****************************

I have to disagree. Lying isn’t ‘accepted’. It may be a fact of life, but it’s deplorable and it disgusts us. We lose respect for liars and cheats. And it’s extremely difficult if not impossible, to regain trust once it’s lost.

#105 Rainclouds on 08.17.13 at 11:16 am

#47 Eddie
“Don’t get mad at CREA or TREB, if you want to know what any given house sold for, any realtor will come to your house and tell you for free”.

The last thing I want is a realtor in my house, they would talk…………….I would then need a BS filter..sooo complicated

Canada could join the 21st century EG: zillow/trulia saving everyone the pain……

#106 NoOneOfConsequence on 08.17.13 at 11:21 am

Lets see…..who profits most from Real Estate? Who gains most from the status quo?
Government – taxes
Banks – interest
Realtors – fat commissions

The above are also considered to be trusted sources of information about real estate and the purchasing of same.

They don’t mislead or misrepresent.

#107 Daisy Mae on 08.17.13 at 11:29 am

#43 NoName: “If approved, the additional fees would cost the average consumer an additional $2.21 per month and would recover lost revenue from conservation initiatives such as the smart meter plan”

**********************

My SHAW bill increased $6.05 per month and, of course, both levels of taxation — federal and provincial — on the overall rate increased, as well. So that’s $7 a month less I have to spend elsewhere. And so, consumer spending at the retail level continues to decrease….

#108 Daisy Mae on 08.17.13 at 11:35 am

#48 FreedomFirst: “Garth, I am not a gambler, but if I was, I would bet that the amount of hate mail you are presently receiving has shown a noticeable spike…”

********************

It’s indicative of the anger and frustration people feel. They know Garth speaks the truth. They just can’t handle it.

#109 YYZ on 08.17.13 at 11:55 am

The 90d pre-approved crowd should just about be tapped out. Anyone else notice the NorthY SFH inventory…its August! I have cheap rent, plenty of cash and endless patience. Love this pathetic blog.

Garth, any chance for a follow-up on this post?

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2013/05/29/a-downward-spiral/

#110 Infused with Opiates on 08.17.13 at 11:55 am

75 Peter – The western provinces operate under a Torrens registration system. It is accessible to the public though you may have to register as a user and pay for
info.

The various registrations (subdivisions, mortgages, transfers etc) are now almost totally done electronically in BC. Each registration requires an application so it is possible to track them.

However, it may not be easy to track the particulars. For example, how does one determine if it is not an arms length sale? Or if its only for a boundary adjustment? I believe a sale of multiple properties can be completed with one application (which would list the parcel ID numbers). Also, the system covers the entire province, so you would have to partition it geographcially.

So no, not so easy and still influenced by the methodology of whoever assembles the data.

#111 Piccaso on 08.17.13 at 12:07 pm

#23 Joe Smith Canuck on 08.16.13 at 7:27 pm
It is different in Saskatoon… because it is different.
All I see is people driving around in their big-ass diesel trucks with loud exhaust pipes. Everyone is boasting about how much their house increased value over the last few years.
……………………………………………………………………

Well Saskatchewan’s highs are in the review mirror now just like it’s only industry of potash.

#112 Grantmi on 08.17.13 at 12:16 pm

#92 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.17.13 at 7:28 am

Now I’m wondering: does Smoking Man actually go to the trouble of tuning off all spell checking on every device he uses to type?

No! That’s how his mind thinks.

The ramblings of a madman.

#113 Happity on 08.17.13 at 1:13 pm

The US economic renaissance is already tapering, allby itself, without the Fed.

The10-year rate is leading the way and with 440 trillion in interest rate derivatives outstanding hypothecated umpteen times globally round and round systemically well the paper clutchers of faith will soon learn a new way of life.

#114 Donald Trump on 08.17.13 at 1:40 pm

#90 bigrider on 08.17.13 at 6:33 am

To you both :

My family , ancestors and people have been in construction since the days before Christ, the Roman Empire and the Roman Colosseum . As the centuries past they built church after church including the Sistine chapel !

===============================

Let me guess….They are Irish with a bit of Scots.

#115 coastal on 08.17.13 at 2:04 pm

When I hear Ozzie Jurrock say the banks are tightening up bigtime and pre-approved mortgages are getting ripped up or more demands on proving income even when there is lots of equity says the game is over. Have you taken a cruise through Surrey and Cloverdale lately ? The mega townhouse developments that go on for ever with tracts of barren land ripped up ages ago with no new work done looks like the table is set. Not to mention the developments with only 10 families in one section for over a year that have at least 30-40 units. Crash and burn time baby.

#116 Evangeline on 08.17.13 at 2:27 pm

oh-oh

Can [leveraged] ETFs really cause the next stock market crash?
By Jeff Cox | CNBC – 5 hours ago..

Those exchange-traded funds that use leverage to double and triple returns on stock market moves could cause the next big market crash, according to the Federal Reserve….

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/etfs-really-cause-next-stock-130000454.html

#117 Calgary's OK on 08.17.13 at 2:45 pm

#75 PeterfromCalgary on 08.16.13 at 10:30 pm
“Couldn’t someone with a lot of time and a love of details (not me) check the real estates boards numbers and compare them to the numbers from the land titles office? Or is that data confidential?”

Calgary realtor Mike Fotiou has already addressed this subject on his blog. Look for his post on August 5, 2013 “Do Real Estate Boards Make Revisions To Inflate Sales Figures?” He doesn’t really compare CREB stats with land title office numbers, but his research is pretty solid, at least for Calgary RE market.

#118 TurnerNation on 08.17.13 at 2:54 pm

#32 Catalyst. It’s false scarcity. The are using energy as means of control.
In our apparent ‘Scientific Dictatorship’.

Every flown over US or Canada? Gigantic expanses of empty but farmable land. Most grain is shipped overseas. Much of the prepared foods in supermarkets are tossed into the trash as expired. What food shortage? The planet will be just fine.

– Some downtown Toronto buildings turn off most common area lights and turn down their A/c. The signs proclaim ‘It’s cool to be dark’. Really? 100 years of industrial and economic progress rolled back to 2nd or 3rd world country standards?
(You know our elite leaders are staying in 6-star hotels and private jets and making runious war with all manner of spewing machines.) Meanwhile they’re rolling us back to bikes and rickshaws.

These buildings are using Compact Florescent bulbs which contain a dangerous material – mercury – and if broken, within some regions, the Hazmat team must be called.

Stay with me – if you can drown out that piece of cognative dissonance.

Why not mandate solar panels & wind turbines atop every mid and high rise buildings’ roofs, powering common areas with LED lighting? Like these compact wind units:
http://www.cleanfieldenergy.com/wind_photos.php

Instead we have ‘green roofs’ which accomplish nothing.
‘For the environment’ the ‘greenies’ nod in unison.

– Electric cars. Timeline 1901 (!)

“Data of French record runs name a range of 190.76 miles (307 km) as early as 1901, set at an average speed of 17 km/h by Louis Krieger, a record that stood until 1942 (sources: 1 / 2).”

Sounds like a perfect city car! Let’s see what over 100 years of progress – and oil barony – brings.

1999: crushed by the Feds.

http://www.ev1.org/

“The NiMH EV1
had an EPA certified range of 140 miles on a charge; none of the EV1 lessees complained about the range.”

2013:

According to General Motors the Volt’s all-electric range with fully charged batteries varies from 25 to 50 miles (40 to 80 km) depending on terrain, driving technique, and temperature.”

No progress made for 100 years? Anyone buying this nonsense?

“I am the (oil) war president.”

#119 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.17.13 at 2:58 pm

So the stats come down to, who to believe? CREA, representing seller agents, numbers say sales are going up. REBAA, representing buyer agents, says the numbers are down a little. Seems to me both have a vested interest. We need an impartial source to verify real estate stats.

#120 daystar on 08.17.13 at 3:29 pm

It would be fitting that should CREA continue to exaggerate sales and price numbers as is not hard to fathom, it would prompt government to further tighten CMHC regulations. (can’t see why not, CMHC looks to be getting out of the 100% mortgage insurance game so bump down payments up to 10% for example like it should have been all along) That’s one way of policing the housing recovery that never was, just government kneejerk react to it with tighter regs and justice is served. Tremendously late of course, but it might save the last few virgins naive enough to enter this market place.

#121 George J. on 08.17.13 at 3:30 pm

You’re not completely accurate in comparing renting a house to a divy paying stock. When buying a house you usually use much more financial leverage. You can buy a stock on margin but you’re not going to be as leveraged as buying a home. The stock market has actually had a higher rate of return over the past few years. People don’t notice this because they are more leveraged in their home and therefore have higher returns

#122 Biguns on 08.17.13 at 3:36 pm

When is the new book coming? Can’t wait!

Can I get it from you online? Keep up the battle.

#123 Steven on 08.17.13 at 3:37 pm

Do real estate boards lie? I mean, if they quietly revise numbers, or include dodgy data then feed those to the national body, which then issues monthly reports the media slathers over, who will be the wiser?

Is there anything they wouldn’t say or do for a commission?

#124 Jay on 08.17.13 at 4:29 pm

To all the people pointing and laughing because housing hasn’t crashed yet and the “idiots” who haven’t entered the market, let me ask you this: How is your pets.com stock doing? Your webvan stock? Your eToys.com stock? Your Enron stock? Your Lehman Brothers stock? Your AIG stock? Does it matter how high any of those got if you were holding them when they crashed and burned?

Of course it doesn’t hurt while the bubble is inflating — what are you, idiots? It’s when the bubble deflates that the pain happens. It doesn’t matter if you have a year or 10 years of gains if you’re stuck owning comparatively worthless assets — particularly if you’re 95% leveraged and you’re in a jurisdiction where you can’t just hand the keys back to the bank — Then you’re stuck owning (and paying interest, maintenance, taxes, and heating on) an asset your literally can’t afford to sell.

You’d think we’ve never seen a bubble burst, the way some people talk.

#125 Off Balance on 08.17.13 at 4:33 pm

In an ideal world a lot of the advise we share here would be nuggets to all who come behind us (oldies).
But as stated; cost of money will have to rise, opportunity will be a different beast, history may no longer be a predicter of future trends.
So many of our governments, municipal, provincial and federal do not want to have an open contract with our citizens.
As OECD outlines in Base Erosion & Profit Shifting. Are our governments going to regain the tax base which provides equity to our country based on origin of profit. Maybe Occupy was right without knowing exactly how to frame the discussion. Funny how you can read about this in Russian news but not CDN, USA, UK.
Just think if we had known the content of the following link when it started, how our thinking of renting shelter would be different as we move along.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/rent-hikes-loom-for-thousands-219885151.html

#126 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 08.17.13 at 5:03 pm

SIR WINSTON HAD IT RIGHT!

We cannot accuse organizations or their minions, toiling within our vaunted real estate industry, of being parsimonious with the truth.

Ah yes, truth. It is a concept that is violated even more than all of our world’s so-called economic “rules of the road.”

So whither from here all of you posters?

Are we going to Hell in handbaskets (made from herbicide-free Egyptian river papyrus reeds) and sold in yuppie stores everywhere?

Or have things been so screwed up for so long that we’ve all lost our way and live on the following premise:

We’re all renters!

-We rent (lease) cars;

-We rent (go into debt) vacations;

-We rent (mortgate to the hilt) our “homes”;

-We rent (LOCs) renovations;

-We rent (credit cards) groceries;

-We rent damn most EVERYTHING.

The underlying excuse for this fallaciousness?

“As long as my monthly payments don’t go too far into my “comfort zone” (in other words “I can afford that!”) then it’s all good!

Now for what I consider to be a cold bucket of naturally pureified, and metaphorical, water from Sir Winston himself:

Read this carefully:

“I wondered whether those stupid Kings and Emperors could not assemble together and revivify kingship by saving the nations from hell but we all drift on in a kind of dull cataleptic trance. As if it was somebody’s else’s operation.”

Churchill wrote that to his wife on the eve of World War One, an event under which we all still suffer to some degree or another.

Remove the “kings” and “emperors” from his piece and insert 2013-era central bankers, politicians, real estate moguls, mortgage brokers, media lap-persons, government goons and other assorted modern-day human flosam and jetsam.

It’s all a pretty tawdry sight, ain’t it?

What afficionados of St. Garth of Perfect Predictions should understand is that forecasting dates, for collapses of real estate prices, stock markets, bond markets, refrigerator prices, and civilizations generally, means understanding that they all gotta go sometime. Sometimes sometime means now, or tomorrow morning or sometime in the future!

Regardless we’ll all of us get the same time-honoured, and completely reliable, 15 millisecond warning!

You are what, expecting two months notice or something so that you can “get all of your ducks in a row” first? There is no first!

Personally I don’t have any ducks.

Not a one.

And no row either!

#127 eddy on 08.17.13 at 5:21 pm

rainclouds wrote-
“The last thing I want is a realtor in my house, they would talk…………….I would then need a BS filter..sooo complicated

Canada could join the 21st century EG: zillow/trulia saving everyone the pain…”

I agree with you. Here’s a great video of Floyd Wickman and his all time classic line ” Do you want me to tell you what you want to hear, or do you want me to level with you”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3k593X89bE

#128 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.17.13 at 5:31 pm

Maybe the real estate cartel is in the process of reviewing their data gathering methodology. Worked for the NAR in 2011. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/12/12/realtors-to-revise-2007-2011sales-data-down/

#129 Smoking Man on 08.17.13 at 5:35 pm

Who’s to say my spelling is not the rite way to do it.

Who gave himself the authority to judge ME..

I COULD NOT GIVE A FLYING POPCYCLE weather anyone approves or disapproves

I AM THE CENTRE OF MY OWN UNIVERSE. Everyone else are little people to me.

I AM JUDGER not obedient slave, get use to it.

Don’t feed the machine

#130 Donald Trump on 08.17.13 at 6:03 pm

#119 TurnerNation on 08.17.13 at 2:54 pm

The new term is “Communitarianism”.

Same Sh*t , same smell, just re- labelled.

One World Gov’t.

Economy is based on fear about shortages compounded by harming mother earth

In my life, I have been through about FIVE “sky is falling crisises”.

People are idiots.

#131 Duncan on 08.17.13 at 6:08 pm

If the realtors are rigging the stats…where do Canadians go for real market info?

Best regards to all…

#132 Victor V on 08.17.13 at 6:25 pm

http://www.thestar.com/life/homes/2013/08/16/gta_condo_builders_work_to_get_an_edge_in_the_citys_crowded_market.html

To stand apart in the city’s record-high number of condos for sale, some developers are offering incentives such as reduced down payments, free maintenance for a year and increased realtors’ commissions to encourage finding buyers…

…“I’ve heard of and seen emails where they will bump commission to five, six, seven, eight per cent, they will offer cash incentives toward upgrades,” he said. “Even down payments used to be minimum 25 per cent or higher — 30 per cent — and they’re accepting five per cent.”

…“I think you get creative and you work diligently with strategic brokers and agents, and list to what they’re saying to get traction. The trend over the last year, for example, is for agents to be getting paid very high commissions,” says Freed.

====================

Visit the link for more details. You’ll also get a kick out of how many of these realtors/developers are explicitly saying they are neither “panicking” or “worrying”.

I bet…

#133 Donald Trump on 08.17.13 at 6:53 pm

BC Hydro-run Powerex agrees to $750M settlement for gouging ratepayers

VICTORIA – Powerex, the for-profit arm of BC Hydro, has reached an out-of-court settlement, unplugging a 12-year-old, potentially multi-million dollar lawsuit with California.

Powerex has agreed to pay California utilities, the state’s attorney general and several others $750 million in U.S. dollars, but most of it will be paid off using a credit that California owes British Columbia.

It means Powerex will post a roughly $101-million loss this year, but Energy Minister Bill Bennett says taxpayers won’t be shelling out in higher rate premiums.

Read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/bc-hydro-run-powerex-agrees-to-750m-settlement-for-gouging-ratepayers-1.1414074#ixzz2cGmGCBVi

====================================

Yessir…works out to roughly $200 for each BC citizen.

But it won’t cost us anything(aka higher rates)

Life is good…

#134 Ralph Cramdown on 08.17.13 at 7:17 pm

#133 Victor V

In that same Star article, our favourite Lamb says “Those developers with precarious financing and high interest rates, not well-capitalized, will get into trouble and run out of money. You have to have deep pockets to withstand this.” Not him, though. He’s only paying 12%, plus whatever syndication fee he’s paying Fortress Real Capital, a company whose principals were barred from issuing securities (except mortgages) by the OSC.

#135 Daisy Mae on 08.17.13 at 8:19 pm

#94 The Big M: “In the real world, if someone calls someone else or some group (CREA) a liar, then they should have the facts to back it up.

Like the old saying goes; put up or shut up

I did. — Garth”

**************************

Where have you been, The Big M? Garth has been giving us proof for literally years.

#136 Daisy Mae on 08.17.13 at 8:23 pm

#97 Maxx: “He cannot buy because, even though he’s been earning an outstanding salary for years, he blew it all and is in debt. Said she: “It makes me sick and angry to think of the river of money he’s thrown away”.

******************

Well, I hope she keeps this in mind when she updates her will. ;-)

#137 Crowded House on 08.17.13 at 10:20 pm

#125 Jay

My AIG is up 24% (inclusive of fees) since January. It’s selling at 29% below book (asset) value. P/E is 25, 1-year forward P/E is 11. PEG ratio is .91.

Simple fact for all those folks afraid of stocks: Just because the market is selling at above-average historical prices, doesn’t mean individual stocks are.

Ask yourself why Buffett is still buying Wells Fargo bank and General Motors, but is selling Kraft.

#138 Piccaso on 08.17.13 at 10:56 pm

Why is the TSX flat, resource stocks suck and are all trading at there lows.

#139 Herb on 08.17.13 at 10:59 pm

Smoking Man,

now look what you’ve done! You were going to practice your sons in the SM principles of self-delusion and commercial deceit. You weren’t supposed to come to believe this BS yourself.

#140 45north on 08.17.13 at 11:54 pm

Do real estate boards lie? I mean, if they quietly revise numbers, or include dodgy data then feed those to the national body, which then issues monthly reports the media slathers over, who will be the wiser?

government regulation is très expensive (think gun registry). All it would take is a cabinet minister taking on the real estate industry. He could do it from his seat in the House that way he couldn’t be sued. In fact it could be an opposition leader such as Justin Trudeau or Brian Mulcair. Most of the material is already here on this blog.

TurnerNation: You are richer than you think at the Maroon bank. great photography, the couple seem assured and confidant. The bank is getting its money’s worth.

jaguar: Thanks to Smartalox on yesterdays blog and the reference to the Vanity Fair piece about the crash in housing in Ireland.

yeah I read it, good article

BigRider: Tried again Garth. Just got off the phone with one of my uncles. I remember the Italian foreman troweling hot tar on a roof. By voice and by gesture he directed us to throw stones on the hot tar. 1967. Yeah it’s been a good run.

#141 the r on 08.18.13 at 1:55 am

real estates staying way nuts in Surrey bc

Just sold my condo today -for excatly $ 24 000 more then I bought it for in April 2012 (16 months.)
Its in worse shape now cause I party pretty hard – kinda like smoking man wished he did.
thank the good lord for greater fools and keep them coming…
Quick closing cause the new owners wanted it all wrapped up before the fly back home to china at the beginning of next month.
Now to follow the permabeardos advice– throw most of the profit plus some of the orginal down payment into a tfsa and rrsp and buy a brand new condo with CHMC @ 5 percent down.( maybe get a free kia)

over and out…

#142 Joe on 08.18.13 at 5:10 am

It might be a good time to evaluate portfolio’s.
The markets are getting aligned to dish out some pain.

#143 ILoveCharts on 08.18.13 at 5:25 am

Got the minutes on the place we were going to buy. Not looking good.

I hate to waste my 2.89% rate hold. Is there any corner of the real estate market in this country that has upside potential now?

#144 Canuck Abroad on 08.18.13 at 6:19 am

“…What is the most dangerous, toxic financial asset in the world?” This was the question put to me by the chief executive of a leading European bank. Anxious to display my superior knowledge of the darkest corners of the shadow banking system, I replied: “Credit-default swaps on super-senior tranches of asset-backed, security-collateralised debt obligations.” I thought I had come up with a pretty pithy answer.

“No,” he gently chided me. “The most dangerous financial product in the world,” he paused a moment for effect, “is the mortgage.”…”

Extract from Faisal Islam’s new book The Default Line. Very interesting weekend read.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/aug/18/default-line-extract-faisal-islam-housing

#145 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.18.13 at 7:19 am

@ #113 Grantmi on 08.17.13 at 12:16 pm
#92 T.O. Bubble Boy on 08.17.13 at 7:28 am

Now I’m wondering: does Smoking Man actually go to the trouble of tuning off all spell checking on every device he uses to type?

No! That’s how his mind thinks.

The ramblings of a madman.
————-

Yes – but, it takes a lot of effort to constantly override spellcheck on every computer/device. He’d spend half his time re-typing the misspelled words.

#146 rosie "moving forward" in the knowledge that, "this won't end well" on 08.18.13 at 7:46 am

Long but enlightening. Neo- feudalism in Blighty. http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/aug/18/default-line-extract-faisal-islam-housing

#147 Smoking Man on 08.18.13 at 8:49 am

#140 Herb on 08.17.13 at 10:59 pm

Smoking Man,now look what you’ve done! You were going to practice your sons in the SM principles of self-delusion and commercial deceit. You weren’t supposed to come to believe this BS yourself.
……………………

Your so funny Herb.

I’m looking at PO, that was sent to son 3, Friday after noon.

In fact, number 2 who just a few weeks ago was ready to leave this planet, has jumped on the gravel train, wants in. Putting on selling shoes.

Number 3 comments on his PO
unreal dad, this is what I made all of last year. Your a genius, need you to stay healthy, please stop smoking and drinking.

Truth is herb, I am genius, my new app from conception to completion took all but 10 days. On a median size company, it can eliminate 4 to 6 jobs.

We don’t sell it not at a fixed price, but as a percentage of annual savings, it sells it self.

But I guess because I can’t speel or being a bit off, your old bio computer crashes, can’t compute, old man brain makes you think this is not possible for wack job like me.

Most intelligent people who read me, know my shtick, is just that.

They look for my cryptic messages, only handful get it.

Your not one of them.

#148 Donald Trump on 08.18.13 at 9:03 am

#142 the r on 08.18.13 at 1:55 am

Quick closing cause the new owners wanted it all wrapped up before the fly back home to china at the beginning of next month.

================================
Surrey ?

China ?
On their way to India …right?

#149 drydock on 08.18.13 at 9:21 am

#28 Renters-Revenge

Hover cats , love it.

#130 Smoking man

Whoa , ease up on the throttle a bit s man.

#150 The Big M on 08.18.13 at 9:38 am

In the real world, if someone calls someone else or some group (CREA) a liar, then they should have the facts to back it up.

Like the old saying goes; put up or shut up

I did. — Garth

Every sale in Canada comes with a formal Land Transfer Tax and the name on the Deed Registry is changed.

It must be simple enough to compare the official transactions to what the CREA reports.

How they record a sale may vary as in, when the papers are signed versus the actual closing…I don’t know but I do know the number of Land Transfers must be identical or you’ve found the culprit.

Same as with motor vehicles. Every sale has to go through the MOT. So Ford can’t say we sold 5000 F-150’s last month when the registrations only represent 3400.

You may be 100% correct in saying they’re lying but you need formal documented proof to support your accusations, otherwise you look like the greater fool.

PS- to say an entire organization like the CREA lies every month and yet not one person has come forward from within (whistleblower) seems odd to me. A fired employee, retired, etc….. no one.

Prove it and I will join you on the march to Queens Park, with my own homemade placard.

#151 Heather Nova on 08.18.13 at 10:54 am

Couldn’t someone with a lot of time and a love of details (not me) check the real estates boards numbers and compare them to the numbers from the land titles office? Or is that data confidential?

It’s already being done. It’s totally independent of real estate board data. Teranet Home Price Index. http://www.housepriceindex.ca/

#152 Tony on 08.18.13 at 11:09 am

Re: #139 Piccaso on 08.17.13 at 10:56 pm

Since you can’t buy Swiss Francs the aimless imbeciles have been buying of all things American dollars propped up by nothing but total lies about the U.S. economy. This and deflation has quelled base metal prices for the time being. The base metals may have a good run when the FED states they’re never ending quantitative easing at the September 16 and 17th meeting. J.P. Morgan must already know what’s going to happen at the meeting as they’re loading up on gold.

#153 amazon girl on 08.18.13 at 12:40 pm

amazon girl to bigrider #95
Save some roasted peppers witha besta Italian Breda
and soma whita vino for mee.

#154 Old Man on 08.18.13 at 1:13 pm

In buying Real Estate or anything else in life relax and take your time to look at all factors and research all. I go every Sunday to a drugstore which will remain nameless to pickup my mail with Canada Post, as nothing comes to my residence. Always look for a bargain and hooped them last week by buying 4 units of peanut butter for 50% off :) Today saw a big sale on All Bran for $2.99 which was new, and looked at the vitamins and minerals, but did not pay attention to the size, as was in a hurry, but my bill said I saved $3.00 per box. The box in question was just 2 inches wide, so was this a bargain? :(

#155 AK on 08.18.13 at 2:25 pm

#153 Tony on 08.18.13 at 11:09 am
“Since you can’t buy Swiss Francs the aimless imbeciles have been buying of all things American dollars propped up by nothing but total lies about the U.S. economy. This and deflation has quelled base metal prices for the time being. The base metals may have a good run when the FED states they’re never ending quantitative easing at the September 16 and 17th meeting. J.P. Morgan must already know what’s going to happen at the meeting as they’re loading up on gold.”
====================================
LOL, Tony.

How is the Grape harvest coming along? It’s almost wine season time. :-)

We all know that there is only one real currency in the world. And the colour is not Yellow. It’s “Green”, just like the U.S. Greenback. :-)

#156 observer on 08.18.13 at 4:03 pm

#120 rosie “moving forward” in the knowledge that, “this won’t end well” on 08.17.13 at 2:58 pm

So the stats come down to, who to believe? CREA, representing seller agents, numbers say sales are going up. REBAA, representing buyer agents, says the numbers are down a little. Seems to me both have a vested interest. We need an impartial source to verify real estate stats.
================

Don’t forget, the Banks wants to issue more no risk Loans while the Canadian tax payers takes the risk. So really no one wants the game to end until it ends. It will end good for CREA, the banks, cause they will basically make a Sh!!tLoad of money.

And walk away leave the norm Joe with the bill. Its robbery!!!!

#157 Canadian Watchdog on 08.18.13 at 4:41 pm

#118 Calgary's OK

Mike said: "Notice the upload dates of each report so there can’t be any accusations of manipulation."

Now ask Mike if he could point to where reports for 2011 and prior are. He can't, because CREB removed it after they changed their methodology in 2012, which was the entire point of changing methodologies so nobody can compare historic data and must now follow CREB's new bouncing ball.

If you want to know if Mike is an honest realtor, get another agent to check his listings and see how many times he's changed MLS numbers to reset DOM, which is another manipulation technique not being widely discussed. 

Is it just Canadian realtors gaming MLS? No.

January 25, 2008 – Realtors gaming the MLS

February 1, 2008 – Real Estate Market Statistics are FALSE!

And many more if you search Google. This is nothing new or isolated to Canadian RE.  

Garth once asked this question: "Is there a correlation between good information and affordable prices? Maybe."

Damn right there is. If a buyer can't see historic offers, prices, DOM and inventory, they can't assess value. It's a shame because realtors don't understand how non-disclosure and misinformation leads markets to crash, simply because too many buyers made the biggest investment decision of their life based on nothing more then hyped-up statistics fueled by the boards, realtors and media.

When it all goes down, someone will have to be blamed.

#158 Timing is Everything on 08.18.13 at 4:50 pm

Off topic but important.

Public Safety Warning…

General [.Gov] Motors Co. is recalling some 300,000 Chevrolet Cruze compact cars in the U.S. and Canada because the power-assisted brakes can fail.

It’s the eighth recall of the car since it was introduced in September of 2010…

…eight recalls in three years…

The Cruze has been recalled previously for oil leaks that can cause fires, fuel tanks coming loose, transmission and steering problems and side air bag malfunctions.

http://tinyurl.com/m8ucfxh

Yikes. Stay away from [G]ov[M]otors.
I think their pickups are ok, possibly.

#159 Siva on 08.18.13 at 5:13 pm

Last year a similar unit one floor above sold for $359k and three floors above sold for $355k. Now the asking is $299k.

http://m.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyId=13533426

#160 Daisy Mae on 08.18.13 at 7:30 pm

#152 The Big M: “Every sale in Canada comes with a formal Land Transfer Tax and the name on the Deed Registry is changed.”

****************************

Imagine the RE commissions and land transfer taxes — in Ontario, coming and going — being collected as we buy each others houses. What a bunch of fools we are…amazing.

#161 Questions on 08.18.13 at 8:49 pm

It would be good for Ross and others who are trying to enlighten the masses to present information in the most unbiased way possible. Don’t just highlight the drop in sales or the crash in permits. Better to offer up the median and average prices, DOM, months of supply etc. Don’t fight spin with spin, your audience clearly wants the deeper analysis.

#162 scibidubadebumbado on 08.18.13 at 9:47 pm

#56 Rubic on 08.16.13 at 9:21 pm

the deal was done (1bdr in Yaletown, original price $560,000, sold for $520,000), the realtor asked if she can put $545,000 as a sell price on MLS. It looks like realtors can report whatever numbers they want.

They also have many listing that are not listed on Realtor.ca. When they sell after sitting for 3 years they report that the sale was done in one day. Then that skews the average listing days report.

All these lies are there to dupe neophytes into paying more for properties than they otherwise would have.

After all most property buyers are usually in the market once for a property and they live in it for many years. They are not in tune nor should they be with the market nuances.

They’re all easy marks. Pump and dump, Bait and switch. “Wheel and deal the best of them and steal it from the rest of them”.

What prison did these realtors learn their craft from?

#163 Screwed on 08.19.13 at 1:36 pm

#134 Donald Trump

BC Hydro should have never even agreed to the suit and the process of being sued by the Jackasses in California.

Last time I checked, California was a US state and the US has not ratified any international laws.

Nobody has the balls to take on the US of course. Sad day for BC and sad for BC Hydro. BC helped the State of California get through a difficult time with a power shortage due to a Wall Street manipulation and what is their way to thank BC? Why, they sue us of course

Can’t figure out why so many Canucks spend their hard earned money in ‘Murica.
America knows no friends. All they know is suckers.

Canucks are suckers