What were we thinking?

First, a small review of past advice. Then the No.1 cause of Boomer erectile dysfunction.

More than a year ago this blog erupted in a giant hissy fit when I said Sell Canada, Buy America. So I hope you’ve been keeping up with the news. For example, as condos crash and contractors moan over a miserable 2013, building permits issued in BC have deflated faster than NHL libidos. A 40% plunge in Vancouver, 31% drop in Victoria and a dive of 84% in the Fraser Valley. Since what goes shooting up must come limping down (more on Boomer appendages in a moment), this troubled province is leading the country in construction flaccidity.

Of course, we already know what’s going on with sales and prices in Van and 416, both with a 12% drop in SFH values since the spring, and 30% fewer deals. And as I’ve told you already, GTA builders are in shock with new-home sales (condo and low-rise) down 40.5% over 2011 levels.

It’s all consistent with what this pathetic blog forecast. And, more to come. Meanwhile let’s contrast that with the latest stats from south of the border, where the biggest price jump since 2006 has just taken place. Resale houses have gained 6.2% in the last year, with higher values now reported in 45 states. Hardass Arizona, for example, just saw a 21.3% eruption. Of the largest 100 urban areas, 83 have higher prices than a year ago.

More to come here, too. The supply of available homes has fallen to a 10-year low, at the same time mortgage rates are close to record lows and the number of people who have just entered into deals (which will be closing in 2013) is the highest in six years. Is it any wonder builder confidence has jumped the most since 2005, when the US was in the midst of its greatest real estate fetish ever?

Again, by way of contrast, look at the mess Canadians have created with their four-year-long bout of house horniness. The average piece of real estate here is about double of that to the south, where there’s ten times the population and economic output. We’re far more in debt, and have taken on that massive obligation to buy houses and condos now certain to decline. Smart.

Just listen to what the dudes at the Bank of Canada said of the urban condo market a few days ago. And they rarely get excited about anything:

“If the upcoming supply of units is not absorbed by demand as they are completed over the next 18 to 36 months, the supply-demand imbalance will become more pronounced, increasing the risk of a sudden correction in prices. This would likely lead to a decline in housing activity, adversely affecting household incomes and employment, as well as confidence and household net worth, which would in turn reduce household spending. As the declines in incomes and employment impair households’ ability to service their debt, loan losses at financial institutions would likely rise. These effects may be amplified by tighter borrowing conditions as lenders come under increased stress. These interrelated factors would further dampen economic activity and add to the strains on household and bank balance sheets. They may also cause house prices to fall below the level required to correct any initial overvaluation.”

Sound familiar? It should. Exactly the pattern of the 2006-12 housing bust in the States. A drop in demand plus overbuilding brings lower prices, which wounds an economy too dependent on real estate, which causes economic decline, stressed banks, less credit, still lower prices and loveless nights for an indebted middle class. When central bankers start talking like that, take note.

But, none of this surprises. Don’t bet against America. Just Canada.

Now what continues to shock me more are emails like this, from poor Marv:

I am a senior citizen raised by depression-era parents.  Like many people my age I am concerned about preserving my capital so I only put my money into GIC’s that are protected under the Canadian Deposit Insurance Act.  (I know I’ll never get rich in this way — but it beats a stroke or heart attack from worry.) I opened a GIC with the Canadian Imperial Bank of Canada the other day and discovered a new wrinkle.  I had to sign a form reading: “Upon your death, we will deal with your Estate Representative.”

My concern is that by signing this I have authorized the CIBC to take a percentage of the GIC for so-called handling of this portion of my estate.  I signed one agreement for a small GIC but have not signed two additional agreements for two GIC’s of greater value  they have mailed me. I am thinking of refusing to sign these latter two ‘agreements’ as, quite honestly, at my age I don’t trust anyone.  I would welcome your opinion.

Where do I start? Marv should know the biggest problem folks faced in the Depression was a lack of money, especially liquid assets that provided much-needed income. So how, exactly, could a locked-in, non-redeemable GIC which has a zero income stream help anybody if the wheels came off?

Not only that, but how could the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation (assets $2.4 billion) make whole all the people who have collectively put $116 billion into CIBC deposits they think are insured? And if this bank failed, why wouldn’t the rest – where Canadians have squirreled away $622 billion in cash they naively believe is covered by the feds.

Mostly, though, if Marv doesn’t already have a pot of dough or a good pension, he’s courting big risk. The greatest threat is running out of money by burying cash in an illiquid vehicle paying less than inflation and throwing off non-existent income which is then taxed at your marginal rate.

Why invest your savings in a bank GIC paying 1.75% for a five-year commitment, fully taxed, when you can buy stable preferred shares in the same bank paying 5%, plus the dividend tax credit? Is this a masochism thing? Is it ignorance? Willful blindness? The impotence of mistrust?

Marv, grow a set. Stop stressing about service charges after you’re dead.

And to think we used to be hippies. Oh, the shame.


#1 Hoof-Hearted on 12.09.12 at 7:08 pm


#2 steve on 12.09.12 at 7:12 pm

Everyday i shake my head and think who in there right ming would be a house / condo for $500k plus ? Perplexed …LSD comeback ? maybe …but to think working your butt off to pay for a box …….

#3 [email protected] on 12.09.12 at 7:22 pm

The advice seems to be invest in 5% preferreds of a bank. Why not a Preferred ETF like CPD for diversity of the investment/risk?

No advice. It was a comparison. — Garth

#4 Tim on 12.09.12 at 7:29 pm

When would it ever make sense to buy anything in the States unless you were planning to live there? Even if you rented 3 months of the year, it would still be cheaper than paying the property tax, condo fees, management fees, and the cost to keep the A/C on when you are not there so it won’t get moldy. It makes much more sense to rent.

#5 Smoking Man's Old Man on 12.09.12 at 7:30 pm

I’m building an ark here in Vancouver (for obvious reasons). I’ll be making sure no real estate agents or greater fools come aboard, and sadly even my dear, misguided, self absorbed son Smokey will be left behind as the rains continue and the water rises…

#6 AK on 12.09.12 at 7:32 pm

Besides JPM-N, TPC-N and MS-N, which I believe that there is a major upside coming, I am looking for a REIT that has properties in Detroit.

And yes, I believe that Detroit will be recovering, big time. Anybody know of any?

#7 jan on 12.09.12 at 7:38 pm

Hi Garth, great post.
Here in Vancouver ( the real estate orgy capital of Canada ) the majority of people are under the impression that the Canadian government would never ever allow interest rates to go up because it would hurt canadians and their bottom line??????
Would you care to comment

#8 TurnerNation on 12.09.12 at 7:40 pm

I’ve mailed my Christmas cards already!

No postage is required:

Stephen who?
Parliment Hill
Ottawa, Ontario.

#9 NFN_NLN on 12.09.12 at 7:40 pm

That’s cute, a sea lion wearing clothes.

#10 Devore on 12.09.12 at 7:42 pm

I don’t understand the notification Marv got. Isn’t it just clarifying the existing situation, where the bank, who holds the GIC, will deal with the estate to discharge the deposit? I mean, who else would they deal with?

He should worry more about deemed disposition taxes taking half his GICs away at a stroke of a pen, not some supposed new $100 charge the bank may or may not levy against the estate. Maybe he should spend $100 and have a lawyer explain the letter from the bank to him, oh, I dunno, BEFORE signing it, not fearfully handwringing after the fact?

As usual, people fear deathly what they do not understand. Always, the fear is irrational, always it is taken advantage of by others to their benefit (ie GICs), and always the fearful one gets the short end. Lawyers, doctors, accountants, scientists, realtors, like to make their field expertise sound very complicated and hard to understand, but they, like the rest of us, are merely human, and the basics of the subject matter are easy to grasp.

You can learn about quantum mechanics and string theory in a weekend, assuming you passed high school physics. You won’t become an expert leading groundbreaking research, but you’ll know enough not to be bamboozled by someone trying to take advantage of you trying to confound you with BS.

Finances, taxes, investing basics are all well within the grasp of everyone able to do basic math. I know they’re not taught in school, but that’s no excuse to not educate yourself about something so important. Then maybe you wouldn’t have all your savings in negative yielding instruments.

#11 brainsail on 12.09.12 at 7:49 pm

” I had to sign a form reading: “Upon your death, we will deal with your Estate Representative.””

A couple of months ago my 90 something year old Mother in Edmonton called me, all excited because the Assistant Manager from her bank had made an appointment to visit her at home.

He made a pitch that would allow the bank to be the executor of her estate. She refused. Can anyone explain what this was about? TIA!

#12 TurnerNation on 12.09.12 at 7:59 pm

How about a Dog Food Annuity ? Hand over your cash and receive a lifetime “food” supply. Or lock your funds up in a GIC.

#13 TurnerNation on 12.09.12 at 8:03 pm

I half expect an emailer to state “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up”.
Financially speaking of course.

#14 Uwinsome on 12.09.12 at 8:07 pm

“The average piece of real estate here costs 49% more than to the south”

Garth, the average price of homes in Canada is almost twice as much as the US. That would be 98% more, not 49%.

Or, you could say that the average home in the US is 49% less than in Hoserland.

#15 Realtors in an all out PANIC! on 12.09.12 at 8:11 pm

It’s going to be a NASTY crash realtors , builders , flippers and sellers , A NASTY crash! You can see these people screaming in financial pain as the downturn in sales and prices in the GTA go from bad to worse. Flippers are just a month or two from going under as well as out of work and hungry for money realtors, mortgage brokers and all those in the RE industry who hate the free and open markets.

#16 House on 12.09.12 at 8:14 pm

Re Notification: It means banks know they are going to be making a lot less money on mortgages in the future and they are looking for NEW ways to get money from suckers. With this and the increase in rates, we are promised, the price of Preferreds may be taking a tumble.

Rate increases will be gradual and preferred demand will remain high. Don’t expect lower values. But do expect yields to be unaffected. — Garth

#17 Ronaldo on 12.09.12 at 8:21 pm

#8 Turner Nation – I know a guy who was so cheap that he would mail his Xmas cards like this. He would address it to the proper person but he would show their address in the top left corner of the envelope (the return address). The address he showed on the body of the envelope was phoney so that when he mailed it without a postage stamp, the post office would return it to sender which just happened to be the person he was sending it to. Now that is cheap.

#18 Daisy Mae on 12.09.12 at 8:29 pm

“Since what goes shooting up must come limping down (more on Boomer appendages in a moment), this troubled province is leading the country in construction flaccidity.”


But…but…but…how can this be?

“BC is leading the way!” AND “Canada starts here!”

The BC Lyin’ Libs SAID so!

Whata mess…..

#19 Hoof-Hearted on 12.09.12 at 8:32 pm


Let me guess what Dr Wanker is going to say…

Mike Hunt?

#20 popados on 12.09.12 at 8:32 pm

please let me know if anybody can tell me how to find the amount of mortgage against a house.tanks.

#21 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 12.09.12 at 8:33 pm

Life is a Beached Whale…..

#22 dutch4505 on 12.09.12 at 8:35 pm

I wrote an exam a few days ago in Langley BC. One of the real estate courses for my RI designation which is a requirement for my bc assessment career. I was amazed at all the people in the room writing the realtor license exam with me. How can this market absorb all of these new realtors. Many were new immigrants to Canada.

The guy beside me asked me before the exam what an assessment was and I thought…….

#23 Kurt on 12.09.12 at 8:45 pm

#7 Jan – Garth has answered this in many of his past postings. First, make sure you are looking at the right interest rate. The Bank of Canada rate is only indirectly linked to your mortgage rate.

A variable rate mortgage might be linked to “prime” – say “prime – 0.5%”. “Prime” is not the BoC rate, though it may move in response to BoC – or not. Prime is just what the bank offers to its favourite customers. Further, that VRM link is only for the current term – at the end of the term, the bank can say “oh, that was so 2010, now we’re prime + 1.0%.” Presto, interest rate increase with no BoC involvement.

Regular mortgages aren’t linked to BoC at all. The rates are determined by a combination of how risky the bank thinks you are and what it can sell new bond issues for. This has nothing to do with BoC.

Finally, BoC can set rates too low (perhaps because a major trading partner has set them low for political reasons), feeding inflation of the currency. Bond purchasers look at this and decide they want a higher interest rate because the money the bond is denominated in is shrinking. This means that the bank has to have a higher interest rate on the money it lends to consumers. So in this case, BoC and mortgage rates go in opposite directions because somewhere in the system someone is doing something really stupid.

So, BoC might or might not raise interest rates. That may have an impact on the health of the Canadian economy, but it doesn’t much matter for the interest rate that matters to *you* – what you’re charged for a mortgage.

Garth’s assessment of the market that banks sell their bonds into is that interests rates are going to go up, regardless of what the BoC does.

Did I get it mostly right there, Garth?

Sweet. — Garth

#24 Doug in London on 12.09.12 at 8:54 pm

The part about the recovering U.S. market is consistent with what I’ve heard also. It wasn’t long ago many people were bellyaching about how property values crashed badly(and the market was grossly over built) in Stockton, California. Now, however, a lot of value seekers are coming in and snapping up these properties and prices are gradually recovering. It’s so typical of how when a bubble collapses values undershoot first before coming back up to more realistic values.

As for here in Canada, we aren’t any where near that stage yet, with the possible exception of a few economically depressed areas. Stay tuned, some interesting times are coming on this side of the border.

#25 Rural Rick on 12.09.12 at 8:55 pm

#11 brainsail The executor of an estate can charge for their services. Most don’t because they are often friends of the family. I think the limit an executor can charge is 10% of the estate. So they won’t be able to take all of it. Good on your Mom for seeing through their bs.

#26 Dr. WAYNE on 12.09.12 at 9:01 pm

#1 Hoof-Hearted on 12.09.12 at 7:08 pm


Frank Zappa observed, “It’s not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you.” It’s obvious Hoof has done just that and clearly stated he is an a$$hole of the ‘Fiiirrrzzztttttttt’ order …

#27 kreditanstalt on 12.09.12 at 9:21 pm

Shadow inventory.
Foreclosure pipeline stuffing.
Ultra-cheap artificial money.
Irrational exuberance.
Delirious consumer “confidence”.
Higher debt levels.
Coming austerity.

A “recovery” only a Keynesian could love…

And only an Austrian would miss. — Garth

#28 Smoking Man on 12.09.12 at 9:28 pm

DJ’s thrown under the bus…………..

While a tragic waste of life, there must have been underlying issues with the nurse that killed herself after transferring the prank call. Cue a media frenzy.

The prank call to the hospital was particularly funny, but the repercussions are surely now way, way over the top. The 2 DJ’s are receiving counselling, lawyers will be queuing up to represent the nurses family, ( always with an eye on the bottom line ) the tabloid press are foaming at the mouth.

What a sad, humourless society we are becoming. No wind ups, no pranks, we might hurt someone’s feelings and get sued.

…….and the lawyers win again.

Better re think blogging style……………

Screw it. Smoking Man is Smoking Man

#29 hippy on a gulf island on 12.09.12 at 9:47 pm

“And to think we used to be hippies. Oh, the shame.”

Some of the hippies did ok.

#30 Steven Rowlandson on 12.09.12 at 9:51 pm

Don’t bet against America. Just Canada.

Why not bet against both? The governments are from a moral and fiscal stand point a disgrace and have no intention of imposing proper morals on themselves or the public and they still insist on spending and borrowing too much and won’t pay down and pay off their debts. Totally a lost cause if you ask me and that means it is up to every responsible person to protect his own wealth and interests the best they can.

#31 eviee1973 on 12.09.12 at 9:52 pm

Mainstreet media finally realizing that people are trying to cheat developers becaus they might nt be able to flip and make a profit on prebuild condo sales. Article does not mention how many people were speculators, not people whom actually intended to live in said units they are trying to weasle out of taking posession.


#32 The end is nigh on 12.09.12 at 9:52 pm

#22 Dutch.
I know, who let’s those people in.

#33 city slicker on 12.09.12 at 9:56 pm

Getting excited about a rally in the u.s housing market is like getting excited over rim rallying to $12 then remembering this use to be a $150 stock. The amout of foreclosure shadow inventory is so staggering no one even wants to mention it.
Garth after writing this pathetic blog for 4 years, can we finally safely say 2013 will be the year reconning for canadan RE? Considering carney’s departure this could be it.

#34 The end is nigh on 12.09.12 at 9:56 pm

I would not bet on the revival of the US RE.
The same scoundrels who bet the RE market down before 08 are now betting it up.
The Economist, December 1st – 7th, pg. 77.

#35 smarter than terry on 12.09.12 at 9:59 pm

#11 brainsail
In BC the maximum that an execuator can charge the estate is 5% of the gross value ie: before liabilities are deducted to come up with a net value for the estate. The maximum could only be charged by proving that the estate was complicated and difficult to windup. This could be very lucrative work for a bank or trust company!

#36 brainsail on 12.09.12 at 10:01 pm

#25 Rural Rick on 12.09.12 at 8:55 pm

Thank you for taking the time to respond. The fact that the bank was trying to make more money doesn’t surprise me but now they are ambulance chasers is scary. Didn’t they just report record profits?

If she had no competent family members or lawyer, how is this a bad thing? Many people charge financial institutions with executor roles. — Garth

#37 Hoof-Hearted on 12.09.12 at 10:01 pm

#26 Dr. WAYNE on 12.09.12 at 9:01 pm


No sweat..problem diagnosed

Rock /paper/ scissors?

2012 Vintage Tank trumps slingshot 101.999999 % of the time.

PS howz da pre-sale line-up…..warm enuff 4 U ?

#38 Devore on 12.09.12 at 10:01 pm

#27 kreditanstalt

A “recovery” only a Keynesian could love…

We live in a Keynesian economy, it would behoove you to learn the rules and pay attention to signals.

#39 Bill Gable on 12.09.12 at 10:04 pm

Mr. Turner – I am SHOCKED and saddened at the number of my coterie, that have absolutely no clue, that they are committing economic suicide, with some poor choices.

Life sprints by – and I have many friends that have a few RRSP’s – little or no pension coverage, and they are carrying more debt than any sane person would think reasonable.

I have literally BEGGED a few people I love and care for, to at least call you or write and get the skinny.

They look like deer in the headlights when I mention preferred Bank shares and the advantages…..and diversification.

No wonder the line up at the Food Bank I volunteer at is growing weekly.

We are starting to run out of food before the end of the line, and believe me, I just about cry when I see how many people are desperate.

These are NOT street bums, or Meth addicts – they are our neighbours and contemporaries, that never dreamed of having HUNGER haunt their families.

This is going to be a skinny Holiday season for many people.

It hurts.

#40 McLovin on 12.09.12 at 10:12 pm

He made a pitch that would allow the bank to be the executor of her estate. She refused. Can anyone explain what this was about? TIA!

A lot of financial institutions offer professional executor services. It is not evil or underhanded. They charge 1-5% depending on the size of the estate. Most people they can do it themselves if it is simple but it is still a ton of work. If one has a complicated estate (operating companies etc) a professional executor is almost a must. Being an executor is a lot of work, has liability and is thankless as I am sure many here can attest. If someone asks you to do it, consider it carefully.

#41 earlybird on 12.09.12 at 10:12 pm

I just adore this site! Retirees will soon get sick of safely losing money. The US has capitulated some of the malinvestment from their economy, the housing sectors is looking cleaner (rising values), which should help the banks, Freddy/Fanny. Gains in energy sector in the future would be bullish as well. What the US went through is healthy, and is needed to regain strength and growth. Canada is still going to town on debt and will get to the break point. Housing will be the catalyst….

#42 Zarathustra on 12.09.12 at 10:17 pm

I really have no idea where Garth gets his numbers. In Vancouver houses, townhouses, and condos are down 2.1, 2.3, and 1 percent From their peak. Hardly earth shatttering after years of double digit gains.

Average SFH in Van down 12.25 per cent from April, $1.2 mil to 1.053. — Garth

#43 Smoking Man on 12.09.12 at 10:20 pm

#101 Beach Girl on 12.08.12 at 3:01 pm

Love you dude. I used to own a rental in Parkdale. Rented out to 13 men. Made large and was working for myself. The poor bastards. Wrong side of town for this girl.What a shithole. Dumped it. White trash is in. I am just a better version of it


Love you too, glad your back. you have a way with words.

#44 Greyhound on 12.09.12 at 10:29 pm

Garth says,
“And if this bank failed, why wouldn’t the rest – where Canadians have squirreled away $622 billion in cash they naively believe is covered by the feds.”

Question: Now that Japan, Europe, US, & Switzerland, among others, are printing money, why wouldn’t Mr. Carney’s successor do the same to pay off those “covered by the feds?”

You have much to learn about monetary policy. — Garth

#45 Dr. WAYNE on 12.09.12 at 10:31 pm

#37 Hoof-Hearted on 12.09.12 at 10:01 pm

Uh … I see you really have a problem putting a meaningful sentence together … you were supposed to learn that in grade 3 … too bad.

#46 brainsail on 12.09.12 at 10:40 pm

“If she had no competent family members or lawyer, how is this a bad thing? Many people charge financial institutions with executor roles. — Garth”

Thank you, I didn’t know that. It makes a lot of sense because some estates maybe complicated and it would be better to have the issues resolved by someone who is not a family member. I am my Mother’s designated executor and the wolves are already at my doorstep.

#47 The end is nigh on 12.09.12 at 10:54 pm

Here in Ditchmond, B.C.
Nothin is selling. Listings are removed. Many sellers are hoping that Spring will bring back the Chinese buyers.
Good luck.

#48 Smoking Man on 12.09.12 at 10:56 pm

Heaven defined :)

Load up on some good wine, dress warm. walk to the lake , or get a designated drive to take you there during a ragging wind storm.

Could not listen and film at same time buy Courious
I picked listen………….ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Throw this tune in to the head phones. Enjoy storm, who needs a shrink……….ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh


#49 Smoking Man on 12.09.12 at 10:58 pm

Damn forgot the tune


Crazy Diamonds…………..tribute to sid…..

By the man after his death down the road who will be bigger than mozart

#50 GTARealEstateCorner on 12.09.12 at 11:03 pm

To all the readers, new and old, I urge you on one thing. Please be nice and accepting of Smoking Man. He’s probably a good guy, but has never had a lucky break in his life. It’s kind of sad, but he has delusions of grandeur. This is a sign of impaired mental faculty. Please, no judgement, no harassment. Live and let live.

#51 Mr Buyer on 12.09.12 at 11:14 pm

So all the shadow inventory has been consumed and america has completed the collapse of its real estate bubble 16 years sooner than Japan’s continuing epic. All that in the absence of an economic power house to sell stuff too. Sounds too good to be true, but hey I am just a guy that has been to 2 different dentists and 7 appointments with 4 or 5 more slated for a single uncomplicated root canal so I would not say I have a good handle on things.

#52 45north on 12.09.12 at 11:20 pm

Bill Gable: This is going to be a skinny Holiday season for many people.

a woman was begging at the local Shoppers Drug Mart (in Ottawa), it was raining and cold.

I asked “do you want a coffee?”

no thanks

“what about a candy bar”

no thanks

she was crouched down but not actually sitting on the concrete, I walked over to a construction site to find some rigid insulation on which she could sit. Couldn’t find any.

$22.99 a sheet at rona

#53 Country Girl on 12.09.12 at 11:29 pm

In Florida (Gulf coast) mid-November the local news said more foreclosed properties would be coming to market because some issues (paperwork?) had been resolved. Also, the news story said more homeowners would be receiving letters from their bank forgiving 2nd mortgages (which they said are often in the form of LOC) because clearing the 2nd mortgage made it possible to keep the 1st mortgage up-to-date for some homeowners (preventing even more foreclosures).

#54 GTA Girl on 12.09.12 at 11:29 pm

In National Post story on Russian corruption whistleblower is mention of Toronto Condo industry.

A Russian govt official w/possible ties to organized crime owns 110 condo units in Toronto.

This raises flags. The CRA and RCMP should be raiding developers offices.

The mass investor Ponzi scheme is about to fall.

#55 GTA Girl on 12.09.12 at 11:29 pm


#56 Canadian Watchdog on 12.09.12 at 11:40 pm

Foodstamps Soar By Most In 16 Months: Over 1 Million Americans Enter Poverty In Last Two Months

Yep. It’s a recovery. Don’t bet against America.

They have food stamps. We have the OAS, GST credit, family allowance, the universal child tax credit, guaranteed income supplement and social assistance. Such a lame and discredited argument. — Garth

#57 Austrian school on 12.09.12 at 11:40 pm

#38, We live in a Keynesian economy, it would behoove you to learn the rules and pay attention to signals.

Keynes would be appalled by the way governments and central banks are running their countries.
Lenin on the other hand would be proud.
The Economic Consequences of the Peace: “Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalist System was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.”

#58 kreditanstalt on 12.09.12 at 11:49 pm

More on The Great U.S. Recovery…


Too late. Another ill-informed doomer disciple beat you to it. — Garth

#59 Canadian Watchdog on 12.09.12 at 11:52 pm

They have food stamps. We have the OAS, GST credit, family allowance, the universal child tax credit, guaranteed income supplement and social assistance. Such a lame and discredited argument. — Garth

The fundamental problem is discretionary spending as a percent of outlays is growing. Are you going to disagree with that?

#60 smarter than terry on 12.10.12 at 12:10 am

#51 Mr buyer
sounds like you need an endodontist not a dentist

#61 Canadian Watchdog on 12.10.12 at 12:10 am

Even the central banker who created America’s bubble now admits there is no ‘painless solution’.

“The problems are fundamentally in the issue of spending”

Greenspan Says Painless Solution to U.S. Debt is Fantasy

#62 Cici on 12.10.12 at 12:15 am

Ok, so even if rates don’t rise immediately, I hear the house-rish and cash poor in Van and Toronto are flocking to food banks in increasing numbers.

What’s even more worrisome is that food prices are set to rise by 4% to 6% in the New Year, and meanwhile even pseudo food is going down in quality (has anyone tried a Reese’s pieces lately? – Don’t, they absolutely suck now).

Of course, property taxes, fuel/public transportation, and heating costs are going nowhere but up in the near future. And, I’m sure banking fees will be following suit.

Regardless of what happens with interest rates, most of us are going to be even more cash-poor in the New Year.

Sorry for the gloom and doom, I was going to try to put a positive spin on it, but…

#63 TRT on 12.10.12 at 12:15 am

#4 Tim:

When interest rates rise in USA, housing will suffer again. Its only a good time to buy there if you can get a mortgage with minimum down with low rate for 30 years. Otherwise, stay away.

Now, for some advice. Buy Bank preferreds and REITS, repeat 100 times.

#64 Ret on 12.10.12 at 12:18 am

#54 GTA Girl on 12.09.12 at 11:29 pm

“This raises flags. The CRA and RCMP should be raiding developers offices.”

And searching outbound shipping containers for high end cars stolen by organized crime gangs and investigating the importation of hazardous, flooded and re-VINed cars from New York showing up at T.O. auto auctions and finding a few of the 50,000 immigrants who couldn’t be bothered to attend their hearings… blah, blah, blah. So much for national security.

What else do you want? Maybe I could send you a picture of some Mounties standing in front of the Parliament buildings.

#65 Snowboid on 12.10.12 at 12:19 am

#4 Tim on 12.09.12 at 7:29 pm…

“When would it ever make sense to buy anything in the States…”

If you took a look at the numbers from a couple of years ago, it would be obvious.

Winter destinations command premium rental fees – usually from Oct/Nov to Mar/Apr. In the NW valley rent for a place similar to ours is $ 2200 a month or about $ 1200 in the off-season.

So to stay peak season for ten years – the rent would be $ 132K. Or looking at another angle – a good Class A full-time rig would also fetch about $ 130K.

Instead in late 2010 , you could pay less than that for a home and land that would currently fetch about $ 550K in Kelowna (minus the palms and saguaros).

The costs to maintain 85F inside during the summer are negligible – high-efficiency heat pumps cost about $ 65 a month.

As I have said before, the overall costs of maintaining our home in Arizona all year, and renting in Kelowna all year (where it does make more sense to rent) aren’t much more than the costs of our former Victoria home.

BTW, regular down to .78 a litre this morning here. Beer is still $ 18 for 30 cans. Milk $ 1.59 a gallon.

Point is, it’s very inexpensive to live down here for six months.

Sadly, I must admit a cold-front hit today – down to 17C currently, but at least it should be back to the low 20s by mid-week!

#66 Hoof - Hearted on 12.10.12 at 12:30 am

#45 Dr. WAYNE on 12.09.12 at 10:31 pm

I will defend yer God given right to believe ZZ Top is Santa Claus X’s 2…and pray that your University duhgree will be recognized on Plann-ed Earth.

Ok a$$hole?

#67 Patiently Waiting on 12.10.12 at 12:36 am

#20popados on 12.09.12 at 8:32 pm
please let me know if anybody can tell me how to find the amount of mortgage against a house.tanks.
If you are in BC you can get an account withe BC online which will allow you to look up mortgage documents showing the amount of the loan, interest rate etc. I’m sure there are othere similar services in other provinces. Though if this is a one off situataion it would be cheaper to pay a lawyer (who would have access to this type of data) to look up this information. Or you could ask me nicely . . .


#68 Bill Gable on 12.10.12 at 12:46 am

52 45north:

Thanks for showing compassion and kindness – something in short supply, in many quarters.

I salute your big heart – end extend warm Holiday wishes and I hope you have a great 2013.

We could use a few million more people like you – that give a “you know what” about your fellow man.

Mr. Turner would approve.

You are a mensch.

#69 Telecon on 12.10.12 at 12:46 am


Warren Buffett has recently joined the chorus of analysts calling for a sustained housing recovery in the U.S. However, Buffett believes it would be a “great way to short the dollar.” http://www.cnbc.com/id/46543864/CNBC_Transcript_Part_4_Warren_Buffett_on_the_Buffett_Rule

Are you of the same opinion? Or are you just one of those ‘never bet against America’ types?

#70 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 12:47 am

There are about 15 million American households on ‘food stamps’ (SNAP). In order to qualify for the SNAP program a person must have a gross income of not more than 130% of the federal poverty level income, and have no more than $2000 in assets, not including their home, and possibly a vehicle.

There are about 47 million people receiving SNAP benefits, meaning the average SNAP household is larger than the national average of about 2.6 persons. In other words, the household figure alone slightly underestimates the number of people receiving benefits.

And keep in mind that SNAP is not the only form of social assistance.
Others include Supplemental Security Income, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Social Security, Medicaid, Head Start, Section 8 Housing, and others at both the federal and state levels. Not to mention the other food-based assistance programs beside SNAP.

So, about one in eight households in the US need SNAP in order to eat. But SNAP is not the only food assistance program there is, so the actual number of households receiving assistance just to buy food is even higher.

I guess many of the remaining seven households are buyings homes in Phoenix. Or maybe those 15 million SNAP households are all located in five states. I wonder how many of them have students who are defaulting on their student loans?

#71 new canadian on 12.10.12 at 12:51 am

US housing is manipulated, millions of homes are kept on hold by banks for foreclosure.

#72 Mr Buyer on 12.10.12 at 12:53 am

#60 smarter than terry on 12.10.12 at 12:10 am
#51 Mr buyer
sounds like you need an endodontist not a dentist
I wish but the sad fact is that in Japan dental work is covered by national health insurance with 30% user fees and $500 a month family premiums. The thing is the dentists get a pittance for each visit and open ended billing for resolving any particular condition hence 5 visit root canals. It is nothing more than that, a simple root canal that has been willfully treated in ineffective stages so as to facilitate more visits and thus more billable hours. This is a huge black eye for the theory that private health care is some sort of solution. It is largely assumed that doctors would work efficiently to maximize profit but in the real world the limited amount of transactions in most businesses dictate up selling to maximize profits. Profit taking has no place in diagnosis.

#73 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.10.12 at 12:57 am

The line “And if this bank [CIBC] failed, why wouldn’t the rest . . .” endeavors us to turn to the Master of DumbAss Comments, or Master of Verbose, Donald Rumsfeld: “The Known Unknowns . . .”, which collectively places sheeples in a dungbar, aka a shithole! But yes, I do agree that GICs are about as rock solid as RE. And if banks fail, CMHC can bail everyone out — just change billion to quintillions!

“Then the No.1 cause of Boomer erectile dysfunction. Since what goes shooting up must come limping down (more on Boomer appendages in a moment), this troubled province is leading the country in construction flaccidity. Is it any wonder builder confidence has jumped the most since 2005, when the US was in the midst of its greatest real estate fetish ever?” — Where is the sexual self-help directory for Dr. Ruth, Garth? Or is it Dr. Garth, Ruth?!

#28 Smoking Man — “Better re think blogging style……………Screw it.” — You said it. Way too old and couldn’t care less what the P.C. new-age numbnuts bleat about!

#54 GTA Girl — “The mass investor Ponzi scheme is about to fall.”
— and —
#57 Austrian school — “Lenin on the other hand would be proud.”

Hmmm. Does anybody see a connection there? With the Communist Party of America urging Obomba on, Soros running the show behind the scenes, who admires China’s communist way of dictating policies whether people like them or not, these two posters have pointed out what’s really going on. Well done! Such as here — tax sheeples more, just in time for ObombaCare.
2nite’s Fiscal Cliff in one pic; Tory times are hard times Does that ever ring true! 20 Mln. Jobs and how to create them or Prison Labor Booms Billions in revenue; Russian Paper “Obama’s Fools and Stalin’s Fools share the same goal”; Bitcoin Exchange receives bank status; Looting and Pillaging of the US; Beer Class? School cuts hurt; Too Poor for a house so they’re waiting. Holy Smokes, does that make sense or what?!

5:27 clip Homeless emergency shelter; Trade Deficits Can they be exported to Pluto? (No return necessary); China Head honchos meeting. I’m going for lunch; Sunshine and Lollipops Roses are red, Violets are blue etc.; Insourcing at lower wages; Ten Best Cities to become a mlnaire.; Short Clip Theory for now; The Moon Now accepting corporate sponsorships!
2:32 clip Brzezinski — “It’s easier to kill a million people than control them”; Russia vs. US The Cold War is looming; Russia – Syria NATO arms Turkey, Russia arms Syria except Russian missiles travel at Mach 6-7; Japan, NKorea and China Good times in the far east? Not necessarily; Ransomware Pay to have viruses eliminated; Corporate Giant comes out against GMOs; Britain is Bonkers At least the govt. is; Meet Liz Fowler Architect of ObombaCare; Hugo Chavez Cancer back; Brainwashing Sheeple Several methods, but terrorism is one of the top ones; UK Govt. cuts Cutting off the north (Scotland’s independence?); NKorea Great place for a trip, but the hotel looks like a rocket; 25 more This Jimmy Savile thing is getting way out of proportion; The Vatican Obviously. They will do all in their power to prevent them from being exposed; 1:24:39 doc. Slavery by Consent.

#74 Soylent Green is People on 12.10.12 at 1:01 am

Culpable incompetence, mixed with deliberate misrepresentation. What started with a catastrophic failure of oversight, progressed through many months of dishonesty, secrecy, and stonewalling, culminating in what can only be called electoral fraud



#75 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 1:07 am

The so-called “Keynesians” of today, like that kook Paul Krugman, are not really. Keynes’s basic strategy was for governments to save for a rainy day. But the Neo-Keynesians of today just say, “Spend, spend, spend!!” no matter what the fiscal situation is like. After all, debt doesn’t matter, don’t you know?

Personally, I prefer those Modern Monetary Maniacs like Mike Norman who claim that governments (who control their own currencies) can print as much money as they want, right up until we hit productive capacity. Apparently in the demented world of MMT, you only know you’ve gone too far AFTER you’ve gone too far. Like a mad motorist who just keeps going faster and faster and faster down that two-lane road. He can just keep increasing his speed. No problem. Until a tree or a bridge or another car just happens to disagree with him.

Also, according to MMT, rising asset prices have nothing to do with the amount of credit in the system. It’s all the fault of the evil speculators.

I wish the Modern Monetary Maniacs and the Neo-Keynesian Kooks were correct, because I would like a free lunch too.

#76 new canadian on 12.10.12 at 1:08 am

#27 kreditanstalt
Since our blogger was born in Canada and travelled mostly to US conveniently, the suggestion while Canada is crashing is to invest in US.
In fact, US is still more broke than Canada, both countries have no jobs, huge debts at all levels (federal, state and individual) Canada economy is already like that in Saudi Arabia (based on selling natural resources) and US will have more trouble with that as they have larger population, overextended military that burns millions every minute.

So hopefully these China and Europe free trade deals will help people travel more and understand that out of Canada doesn’t mean US.

#77 wes coast on 12.10.12 at 1:09 am

We live in a Keynesian economy, it would behoove you to learn the rules and pay attention to signals.

We have gone far beyond the rules of Keynes. Those rules stated you run a deficit during recession and inversley tax and repay the deficit during expansion – to smooth out the business cycle.

We’ve perverted this to run a deficit always and run a bigger one when the shit hits the fan.

Austrian economics has predicted this fate for Keynesian economics because human nature and more so the nature of politics (buying votes) – predicts that no politician has the cojones to raise taxes and pay down debt when things are going well as the opposition will accuse them of sparking a recession – as if one would never have happened anyways.

So, we can call this extend and pretend. We can call it boom and bust. We can call it bubblenomics – but don’t call it a recovery or Keynesian for that matter. Learn those rules and learn to profit from it – sure, why not – its all a game to be won or lost.

Overall, some will profit, many will lose – but society as a whole will not advance as it would under a true and free – unmanipulated – “free market”; and that will come with the greatest cost of all – sooner or later.

#78 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 1:39 am

#61 Canadian Watchdog on 12.10.12 at 12:10 am

Greenspan says, “…we won’t get through this whole issue without some pain.”

That’s like the Civil War field medic, brandishing his handsaw and telling the soon-to-be war amp, who was just doused with cheap whisky and told to bite on a stick, “This might hurt a bit.”

The question is, who is actually going to feel the pain? Not Greenspan, that’s for sure. There are those who posit the Fiscal Cliff is just an excuse to scare what’s left of the American middle class into accepting higher taxes and fewer benefits.

But then again, where else would they get the money? The banks? Are you kidding? We just gave them trillions to bail them out of their bad derivatives, how can we expect any contribution from them? Corporations? Don’t be silly, their money is all off-shore. China? They told the Americans, 你他妈的 a while ago.

If the middle class can’t cough up enough cash, maybe the gov can cut back on food stamps. After all, Americans can stand to lose some weight anyway.

Oh, wait, I forgot!… we live in a modern monetary world, so the gov can just print what they need! Whew! For a while there I was worried.

#79 Richard and Zeus on 12.10.12 at 2:18 am

#66 awesome…..

Garth – love your blog but we travel to the US all the time for business. Until they stop handing out to lazy people and stop invading the world killing men, women and babies with 2 million dollar laser guided bombs…..it’s only going to get worse.

IF those two things stop…..and the Americans are allowed to make stuff again I completely agree prosperity will rule again.

#80 Stew on 12.10.12 at 2:30 am

Any FOOL who buys in the US needs their head examined:
Real estate expert Fabian Calvo says there’s more to the story about rising prices in the housing market than what’s reported by the mainstream media. Calvo charges, “There’s a tremendous amount of manipulation . . . Yes, prices have gone up 3%. I see it, but it’s because the inventory has been suppressed on purpose by big players . . . not foreclosing on properties.” Calvo should know because he runs a company called TheNoteHouse.us. It buys and sells $100 million annually in distressed debt and real estate. Calvo says, “Over 20 million houses, on any given night in America, are completely sitting vacant.”

#81 popados on 12.10.12 at 3:18 am

thanks p.w. i am in bc i will get you the addresses .

#82 Buy? Curious? on 12.10.12 at 3:35 am

For all the boomers out there, a public service announcement. This is from Florida.


#83 CalgaryBoy on 12.10.12 at 3:37 am

OMG, after the first 9 days of December, the average price for single family house in Calgary is…drumroll…$542,234!!! It might even break the record set in 2007!!!

#84 VanLarry on 12.10.12 at 4:05 am

Someone sent me this, so I had to share it here.


Crumby private REITs like the League is bad enough, but this.

Another scam, sigh.

#85 GTA Girl on 12.10.12 at 4:39 am

RET; I agree with your sarcasm. However the condo industry and it’s place among the top in Toronto investor mentality and economic growth is a enormous concern.

If …and I say this hesitantly..if, portions of the last few years growth was perpetuated due to a ponzi/money laundering schemes, this will effect the RE market in ways not on the radar.

Poor construction, quality materials by shady cost cutting developers will already be an enormous story in next few years.

Throw in investors and developers perpetuating money laundering through condo units, you have a pyramid scheme where the biggest losers will be taxpayers who will deal with fallout.

Putting a steeper slant on any economic downturn forecast.

I’ve come to believe that this will be the story to watch.

#86 CJ on 12.10.12 at 8:15 am

If “Marv” isn’t comfortable with someone as exotic as preferred shares, there are fully CDIC insured cash TFSA accounts that pay 3% interest and savings accounts that pay 1.9%. (those that come to mind: People’s Trust and Canadian Direct Financial/Canadian Western Bank).

There’s little point in locking money into GICs or even using the big-5 banks so-called “high-interest” savings accounts when there are alternatives with the same level of protection that pay significantly more interest and can be accessed without penalty any time.

More broadly though, whole market, passive index funds with low MERs are the way to go in the long run. I’m with Garth on real-estate: it’s an over-inflated asset class right now. You can rent the same domicile for less than the cost of owning. Be liquid.

#87 Waterloo Resident on 12.10.12 at 8:41 am

I totally agree with Garth !

In Toronto a 3-bedroom house will cost you $1.5 Million, while in Buffalo or Niagara Falls USA the same house will cost you about $90,000.

Meanwhile, in Toronto a new Accounting grad earns a $26,000 starting salary, with $32,000/ yr being the norm after 5 years.

In the States the same accountant starts at $45,000 and after 5 years earns around $65,000.

So there you go.

So if you are an accountant, just think of how many years of earnings it will take to equal the cost of the house you just bought:

in Canada: $1.5 Mill / $32,000 = 46 years
in USA: $90,000 / $65,000 = 1.4 years

Now tell me; which one do you prefer to have for yourself?

Plus there’s the situation of the ICE-COLD ICE-QUEENS of Toronto (All the women in Toronto are ice-queens, they literally HATE THE MEN!). READ THESE BLOGS and see for yourself:




You know as much about Buffalo as you do about women. — Garth

#88 TurnerNation on 12.10.12 at 8:58 am

17 Ronaldo – funny.

“In Soviet Canada, letter mails you!”

#89 fancy_pants on 12.10.12 at 9:22 am

this would be a good reason not to buy bank stocks if it ever came to fruition:

News flash: This is not Britain. — Garth

#90 maxx on 12.10.12 at 10:23 am

#11 brainsail on 12.09.12 at 7:49 pm

Great question. Walk into a few banks and get loaded up with all of the estate executor literature that they routinely hand out. Banks stand to make a healthy percentage on the estate when they help “settle” it. READ ALL OF THE FINE PRINT CAREFULLY, ASK MANY QUESTIONS AND THEN GET IMPARTIAL EXTERNAL ADVICE. Your mom is a smart cookie with her spidey sense intact. There may be much better alternatives for her than entrusting sky-high, fee-ridden banks with her estate.

Banks are girding to gorge on boomer wealth as they enter retirement. Hard-earned assets are to be protected from banks’ excessively high fees.

Banks are a commodity like anything else. Shop and compare.

Financial institution executors, with trained and regulated staff, do a superior job compared to a relative who is utterly inexperienced. Fees for this service are completely transparent. Stop being a conspiracist. — Garth

#91 Grantmi on 12.10.12 at 10:27 am

Canadians can expect to pay more for food next year with most of the blame being placed on this summer’s drought that withered most of the American Midwest.

A University of Guelph research team says the price of beef and pork will rise 4.5 to 6.5 per cent; eggs 3.5 to 5 per cent; grain 1.4 to 2.7; and fresh vegetables, fruit and nuts, fish and seafood 1 to 3 per cent.

Overall, the Guelph research team predicts general food costs will increase between 1.5 and 3.5 per cent in 2013.

Ouch…. Beef, fish, and pork…. Oh my!!!!

#92 Grantmi on 12.10.12 at 10:28 am


#93 Dom on 12.10.12 at 10:31 am

Waterloo Resident #87

If I was single in Toronto again I would leave. Toronto girls are hands down the most stuck up and ice cold then anywhere else. As one of those articles said goto NY and you will see the diffeence. I remember in Miami how easy it was to pick up friendly girls. Toronto GIRLS SUCK

#94 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 10:52 am

#92 Grantmi on 12.10.12 at 10:28 am

Food prices have already gone up quite a lot in the past four years: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/econ155a-eng.htm

As usual, the mainstream is far behind the curve.

#95 Hoof - Hearted on 12.10.12 at 10:53 am


From Radio show from the US. Person works in Florida in the Construction industry.

He was given a list by his employer to call up a list of over 70 housing contractors.

He found that almost 60 of them had their lines no longer in service.

#96 Nancy on 12.10.12 at 11:05 am

@wes coast #77

“So, we can call this extend and pretend. We can call it boom and bust. We can call it bubblenomics – but don’t call it a recovery or Keynesian for that matter.”

How about if we just call it capitalism. Karl Marx explained long ago how capitalism is inherently unstable and is always going to have boom and bust cycles. Keynesianism is just a strategy for dealing with the inherent instability of capitalism.

#97 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 11:08 am

Speaking of food and the ‘stamps’ that some of us need to trade for it, here is a just-in update on the Great Unwashed in America:


Posted several times already. Still irrelevant. — Garth

#98 Linda on 12.10.12 at 11:22 am

Hmm…try being a single, straight female in Toronto. It isn’t easy, especially considering that TO has the largest gay community in Canada.


I grew up there and left more than 20 years ago. All my friends who stayed in TO have only gotten married in the last few years, in their late 30s and early 40s. I guess it takes that long to find a quality partner there.

#99 Country Girl on 12.10.12 at 11:44 am

#87 Waterloo Resident
Not sure where you’re getting your salary info.
Entry level accounting jobs are the path to good paying accounting jobs for certified accountants. No motivated certified accountant will continue working a low-paid entry level job for his/her entire career.

#100 NoOneOfConsequence on 12.10.12 at 11:46 am

According to the experts, 2013 will be a boom year for at least one sector of real estate, with profits galloping forwards. McMansions and condos are what everyone should be investing in apparently.

Check out: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/commercial-real-estate/Real+estate+2013+report+compared+everyone/7589589/story.html

That report is about commercial real estate space. — Garth

#101 Daisy Mae on 12.10.12 at 11:48 am

#93 DOM: “I remember in Miami how easy it was to pick up friendly girls. Toronto GIRLS SUCK…”


Maybe Toronto girls are just smart.

Just a hunch, but we may be strayng off topic. — Garth

#102 Joe on 12.10.12 at 11:48 am

Maybe Green Peace can save this market, or the diva …

#103 Ralph Cramdown on 12.10.12 at 11:52 am

#94 Inglorious Investor — Food prices have already gone up quite a lot in the past four years.

Only for some people:

I know Garth makes fun of cherry pickers who shop the grocery flyers for deals, but I consider it doing my bit as “the invisible hand at the market.” For every item on that Statscan list that my family buys regularly, I know a good sale price, and I can tell you that for over 75% of them, I NEVER pay even close to the Statscan price.

Grocers have their data warehouses which tell them how to optimize planograms, sale times and prices and regular prices to maximize profit — this was pioneered by Walmart and has been copied, more or less well, by every grocer which needs to compete. And it works! I stopped in this AM to pick up a couple of whole, air-chilled chickens to freeze at $1.99/lb. Had to wait for the lady in front of me, who spent so much that the store offered her a ‘free’ ten dollar gift card, but who admitted ahead of time that her debit card might be declined (it was) and she’d have to put it on her credit card.

I’m long NWC and WN. Keep shopping, folks!

#104 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 11:58 am

“Posted several times already. Still irrelevant. — Garth”

I for one don’t believe that almost 48 million poor Americans are”irrelevant.” But then again, they likely don’t buy ETFs or REITs.

As I explained to one of your pathetically depressed colleagues, food stamps is a social program. WE have vastly more than they do. — Garth

#105 Timing is Everything on 12.10.12 at 11:59 am

That US ‘recovery’ is gonna be slooow…

‘U.S. Unadjusted Unemployment Shoots Back Up’

U.S. unemployment, as measured by Gallup without seasonal adjustment, was 7.8% for the month of November, up significantly from 7.0% for October. Gallup’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate is 8.3%, nearly a one-point increase over October’s rate. -Gallup


As always, it’s all about jobs…Real jobs.

#106 Nancy on 12.10.12 at 12:06 pm

Dating scene in Vancouver for straight men and women is probably worse than in Toronto. My theory: Real estate bubble economy leads to polarized society with animosity between classes/races/renters v owners and form of social anomie sets in. From the Vancouver Sun:

“For many singles, the stepping stones to love’s distant shore are broken or missing…

“I don’t know what the problem is here,” says Jody Radu…

So, why is it so hard to meet someone in Vancouver? Is it geography? Is it part of the city’s identity that the dating scene is as tricky to negotiate as its landscape, divided by waterways and forbidding mountains?

Is it the way the city is spread out and shuts down early, its denizens more likely to rise at dawn to pound up the North Shore mountains on their bikes before work than lie in and roll over for a little good morning sex?

Is it our ethnic enclaves that divide us?

Is it seasonal affective disorder, a collective low libido?

“There is a lack of sexuality in Vancouver,” says Derkson, bluntly…

Back in Vancouver, she just wishes that when she smiles at someone on the street, they would smile back…

Vancouver is the hardest city to date in in North America. We have no dating culture here. In Edmonton, Toronto, Calgary there is a much higher chance that people will come out just to meet you for a coffee, just for the social aspect. Because Vancouver doesn’t have that dating mechanism, it’s awkward for people to ask each other out.”

Many of the men he’s worked with find Vancouver women to be intimidating…

Sue Seminew, a professional high-end matchmaker in Vancouver, believes there are certain variables here that do add to the challenge.

“Our market is complex. Almost every major dating market has more women than men, and our city is visibly ethnic with a high representation among Asian and South Asian. Race is huge. Compared to Montreal and Toronto, our downtown is small. We also tend to discount the outlying areas. We were recently ranked the worst-looking city in terms of dress. Both men and women can look like crap, with both parties guilty of judging and misinterpreting.”…


#107 JohnnyBoy on 12.10.12 at 12:14 pm

Hello Housing Investment Bondage Fools. Merry Christmas!

For each and every one of us out there that scrutinize these blogs it is great fodder for discussion however, what are we going to do about the impending governmental fiscal crisis in the US, upcoming housing crash here in Canada, massive condo crash, increasing job losses in North America, rising cost of living, increased stress levels for all of the Tax Slaves (Smoking Man ™), lower investment returns on personal wealth management funds, political boondoggles hither and fro, commodity prices that can not be counted on to increase or decrease with any confidence, Euro debt crisis, Chinese takeovers of foreign corporations, crises in the Middle East (the former generalized to Middle East, too many crises to list them all), war, crime, pestilence, religious conviction, global warming, Asian pollution (India and China particularly), and in general the attitude of racial hatred. Well if I haven’t covered all of please feel free to add…………

All I have to say is there is NOT A SINGLE THING WE CAN DO about the above unless we act upon our words. So in the faith or spirit of the upcoming Christmas season (apologies to all Jewish people, Happy Hanukkah), to all I wish a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I for one have it in mind to be with my family shut off the computers, I pads, radio, television and enjoy what life I have left on this planet for this season.

Come next year if we all don’t depart this life (Mayan Calendar end of the World Thing) we will all be doing the same thing, but we will be smarter by enlightening ourselves through banter and perusing the topic de jour!

Peace out Investment Bondage Fools!

#108 Dr. WAYNE on 12.10.12 at 12:15 pm

#66 Hoof – Hearted on 12.10.12 at 12:30 am

That’s three university degrees, by the way … and I love it when you talk dirty …

#109 Mister Obvious on 12.10.12 at 12:28 pm

My own will is in the hands of a financial institution executor. And yes… they’re definitely going to take a cut for their trouble. Money well spent, I’d say. My heirs will thank me. Posthumously, of course.

#110 Iceland,Alberta on 12.10.12 at 12:33 pm

Does DR.WAYNE not realize that his comments to the “Firsts” are on the same level as them? And might I add, about as interesting.

#111 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 12:39 pm

“As I explained to one of your pathetically depressed colleagues, food stamps is a social program. WE have vastly more than they do. — Garth”

That may be, but I think you are missing the point.

#112 Gregor Samsa on 12.10.12 at 12:40 pm

#87 Waterloo Resident – What a can of worms you are opening! Unfortunately Calgary is the same, if not worse. Not sure about Vancouver, but I suspect it’s the same also.

I think it’s because Canadian women think they are hotter than they actually are. Maybe it’s a supply and demand thing, but in other parts of the world it seems like you are constantly surrounded by welcoming, nicely dressed, attractive women. Meanwhile Canadian women wear sweatpants around ($90 lululemon sweatpants are still sweatpants) and if you get a scowl from them, you are doing better than the average (which is complete ignorance). They seem to scurry around in a perpetual stressed out bubble, usually texting or talking on an iphone as they hurry from one place to next. I think, as a whole, they are an extremely unhappy species.

#113 TRT on 12.10.12 at 12:58 pm

So it starts.

Tradespeople will be a dime a dozen in the coming years. If you’re an apprentice, sucks to be you . If you’re already qualified, stick with hour job — you will never find a better paying one.

If I’m a corporation, I will look overseas now for employees who can work for $ 15 per hour. The trades did it to themselves by requiring such long apprenticeships. — 1 year is sufficient!

Good Luck now.


#114 Canadian Watchdog on 12.10.12 at 1:05 pm

#111 Inglorious Investor

Garth just hates anything posted from Zero Hedge.

Not hate. Distrust. — Garth

#115 daystar on 12.10.12 at 1:08 pm

#11 brainsail on 12.09.12 at 7:49 pm
#90 maxx on 12.10.12 at 10:23 am

If your grandma didn’t solicit the services of the bank in question regarding a will and all of a sudden they show up on your gramma’s doorstep, I would be concerned by that. Not alarmed, but concerned. While Garth makes an exellent point, what trumps the competance of any exectutor to an estate is trust. A will is exactly what it is, a will and testament of the deceased. It takes more than knowledge, experience and competance to carry out a will as we all know as ultimately, it takes trust.

Most of us have someone to trust or turn to upon our death but some don’t have that luxury and for those someone’s who don’t have anyone to turn to, it means research, soul search and explanation if one is to have their final will and testament delivered to a T. Its all the more reason why one needs to address will’s while one still has a sound mind and body. The link below should help get those with interest get started:


#116 Ralph Cramdown on 12.10.12 at 1:31 pm

Genius! The Mop & Pail is now reporting that BC wants to float a bond issue denominated in Yuan. Says the Premier: “We can borrow for 25 years in our home currency at the same coupon that China pays for ten year money in theirs, so who knows how much of a premium we’ll have to pay. Luckily, everybody knows that the Government of China is maintaining their currency at an artificially high level, so when Soros comes and breaks them, we’ll be paying less. Alternatively, we’ll be buying a swap from Goldman Sachs to protect ourselves on what they’ve assured us are highly favourable terms. Any questions? What? Hey buster, who are you calling a cnooc?”

#117 Old Man on 12.10.12 at 1:32 pm

I am shocked about all these negative comments about the women in Toronto, and elsewhere. You losers just don’t have ‘Fire’.

” A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald, but if he has fire, women will like him.”

– Mae West

#118 gold bug on 12.10.12 at 1:34 pm

remember a few years ago, there was mention of an Amero dollar, we all laughed because how in the hell would they get Canadians to buy in, but now with CHMC at the hawk for 1 TRILLION in Mortgages, we are just as screwed, and will fall into the trap. Amero 1/100 of your dollar.

Why did we give up making our own money back in 1976, after looking over the data, seems like the Bank Of Canada was our wining ticket, but yes we are rich, could not let a measly 33 million people be that wealthy, since that 1976 we have let private banks create money for us, and we have owed them ever since and due to compound interest we will never pay it off….. but we could and the law states we have the right to demand to have our old system back, please oh Garth explain to me, dumb, ignorant ,stupid, uneducated, and Oh excuse me for being financially illiterate, when I never had enough money to even learn the game and now a broke Canuck.
Why we let them create money for us, when they didn’t even have that money in the first place, or earned it ,just digits on a puter ….money for nothing and chicks for free.
I can read somewhat and I am reading that there is so much fraud and rules are not for all.
why is there is over 1 QUADRILLION in derivatives , or is that more internet, scare mongering nonsense.
please don’t erase me this time

Banks do not create money. BTW, you need help. — Garth

#119 Dr. WAYNE on 12.10.12 at 1:37 pm

#110 Iceland,Alberta on 12.10.12 at 12:33 pm

Yes I do realize that, but there is a higher calling involved. God spoke to me and instructed me to help Garth rid this blog of moronic comments, like “FIRSTS” because so many bloggers despised them … as you know, Garth is too much of a gentleman to do this. And to interject with ‘your’ next comment … I may be perceived as ‘moronic’, but Iceland, I really don’t give a 3-coiler sh++.

#120 brainsail on 12.10.12 at 1:37 pm

Garth, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction concerning bank services. As my Mother just made me executor I’m realizing how difficult, expensive, time consuming and maybe impossible it would be for me to execute as I live in US.

I’ve started communications with a bank to understand what steps I will need to take. Yep, the other beneficiary lives on the other side of the world and will most likely challenge any decision I make. Now I can sleep.

#121 Alberta Ed on 12.10.12 at 1:40 pm

Estate planning is essential for anyone who doesn’t expect to live forever. Get a lawyer to set up your will the way you want. Your heirs will thank you.

#122 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 1:49 pm

#113 TRT on 12.10.12 at 12:58 pm

The onshoring of labour. Could be the next big trend?

Catherine Austin Fitts, that erudite and very savvy former Washington gov insider and Wall Street banker, claims that labour price deflation is being utilized to counteract monetary inflation as part of the US government’s ‘slow burn’ economic policy (will the abundance of shale, off-shore, Bakken and North Slope oil change that policy?). One could argue that one way they do this is by “allowing” in illegals from Mexico.

Companies in Canada would also love to reduce their labour costs. I don’t blame them. From what I hear, lots of illegals already work in construction. But this kind of immigration policy has the potential to be very disruptive because the supply of labour via immigration can be increased very quickly, especially with regards to targeting specific industries.

We do need more skilled tradespeople, and we do need more productive immigrants who are net tax payers, so I am not opposed to the policy as long as Canadians are first in line. But I fear that it may not be properly implemented, and it’s likely just another component in the ‘race to the bottom’ that began in earnest with the first industrial flight to Mexico about twenty years ago.

#123 Picasso on 12.10.12 at 1:56 pm

You know as much about Buffalo as you do about women. — Garth.


Buffalo or America don’t know shit about Canada either, they think Canada lives in Toronto.

#124 Inglorious Investor on 12.10.12 at 1:57 pm

#114 Canadian Watchdog on 12.10.12 at 1:05 pm

“Not hate. Distrust. — Garth”

Everyone has their bias, so I don’t blindly trust any news outlet, which is why I verify the info whenever I can. But that said, I find ZH one of the best sources for finance and economic info anywhere.

I also listen/read a number of other alternative news sources. Consistently, I find much of the information presented in the alternative press becomes mainstream news (and therefore “true”) often weeks or even months later.

#125 Mad Scientist on 12.10.12 at 2:04 pm

I completely, utterly agree with Garth when he said sell Canada – buy USA – our government has given the green ligth to a communist backed country to control our natural resource… you just gotta love this country to selling out to the highest bidder.

I don’t have proof but I heard over 10 years ago that “Chinese Investors” were buying swaths of farmland in and around Tottenham and Alliston (1 hour north of Toronto). I thought it might be a move in case Honda of Canada expanded – but they were too far off from any realistic location – but the land is prime for growing and is still being used to grow.

I can only make one comment – if we sell our resources to a foreign controlled corp – why can’t we buy that highly sought after “rare earth minerals” that China has –

This country is oh so becoming a lost cause – Chinese miners for a Chinese mining company – it would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

#126 Victor V on 12.10.12 at 2:28 pm


Just four short years ago, you could buy an investment property with nothing down and get the best interest rates in the market.

That was then. Today, rental financing is night-and-day different. To mortgage a small (a one-to-four unit, non-owner occupied) rental property now, you need to plop down one-fifth of the purchase price. And even then, you don’t always get the lowest rate.

With a tipsy housing market and the credit crisis still fresh in memory, regulators and lenders are putting higher-risk borrowers under a microscope. That includes real estate investors.

As a result, it’s now trickier to qualify for a rental property mortgage – especially compared to the days before April 19, 2010. (That’s when federal legislation put an end to insured rental mortgages with less than 20 per cent down.)

#127 Vangrrl on 12.10.12 at 2:36 pm

Garth are you behind this?

Please tell me this pathetic blog isn’t going to digress into a bunch of lame comments like this one, “I think it’s because Canadian women think they are hotter than they actually are”… geezus. Who let the 14 yr old on the thread?

#128 brainsail on 12.10.12 at 2:38 pm

#115 daystar on 12.10.12 at 1:08 pm

“Most of us have someone to trust or turn to upon our death but some don’t have that luxury and for those someone’s who don’t have anyone to turn to, it means research, soul search and explanation if one is to have their final will and testament delivered to a T.”

Trust is a big word. My wife is recovering the loss of her Father a couple of weeks ago in Alberta. On the day of the funeral two family members approached her wondering if they could have her Father’s massage chair. I’m going to do what ever it takes to have a third party be the executor.

#129 Investx on 12.10.12 at 2:52 pm

#89, fancy_pants on:
this would be a good reason not to buy bank stocks if it ever came to fruition:

News flash: This is not Britain. — Garth

Is there no chance of this happening with Canada?

Or is it “different here”?

#130 drydock on 12.10.12 at 2:55 pm


Distrust is a survival strategy when dealing with ZH and the rest of the usual suspects,disinformation is rampant.

#131 Smoking Man on 12.10.12 at 3:13 pm

Never had a problem with short term rentals in the Toronto.
quite amazing. I Rule never same on twice that would be cheating

#132 DannyBoy112 on 12.10.12 at 3:15 pm

I agree with Gregor Samsa “Canadian women think they are hotter than they actually are” but not so much a supply and demand thing as it doesn’t apply here in Raincouver due to a high percentage of gays and guys who are more excited about World of Warcraft than a getting a date…”

#133 syfon on 12.10.12 at 3:22 pm

#118 dr.Wayne

Don’t you realize that first, furst, ect adds some flavour to the blog.
Keep God out of it

#134 jess on 12.10.12 at 3:32 pm

… bill 115 seems tame compared to this



#135 MontrealSFH on 12.10.12 at 3:40 pm

Sales Decrease in November for Montreal

building permits plunging everywhere except Quebec.

#136 crashing yuppy on 12.10.12 at 3:43 pm

Problem between Dr. Wayne and that buffoon Hoofy is because Garth made several empty threats to ban the simpleton firsters and has yet to follow through.

This is my fault? — Garth

#137 Old Man on 12.10.12 at 3:49 pm

#121 – Inglorious Investor – am impressed that you know Catherine Fitts, as will never forget our night together in Tenn messing around if you know what I mean. Well she will be on tonight with coast to coast am, with her take all about the financial cliff in USA, and she makes a good dinner, but the dessert was much better.

#138 IM in C on 12.10.12 at 4:05 pm

I wouldn’t bet on the American realestate market just yet. What we might be seeing here is a ‘dead cat bounce’. Numerous articles have pointed out that there is a large shadow market of homes that are in default but are not foreclosed on – for a whole raft of reasons.

#139 juno on 12.10.12 at 4:07 pm

is the US really recovering or is Debt just so easy to get

Just like Canada, the US is powered by debt and more debt. When will all this madness end and people get back to basics.


#140 Stoopid Idiot on 12.10.12 at 4:18 pm

Catherine is a sweet Heart, had the pleasure of meeting her in Vancouver a few years ago… I enjoyed listing for hours…. Not many women can do that for me…. It’s not your fault Garth…. This pathetic Blog just went that way today


#141 Ray on 12.10.12 at 4:27 pm

BMO executive chief economist Sherry Cooper to retire effective Jan. 30


#142 Buy? Curious? on 12.10.12 at 4:28 pm

Hey Everybody! I just read in the Star (because I needed to line my parrot cage) that Scary Sherry Cooper is retiring from BMO. McGuinty, leader of the most populous province in Canada and his finance minister resign within weeks of each other, Carney leaves for England and within a year Cooper sells her house and then decides to retire? Now? The chess board is moving and the only one that is helping you play the game is our main man, Garth Turner! I would start planning for the worst and I don’t mean when the NHL lockout is over and we have to listen to LeafTalk on the radio driving in from Oshawa or Milton. “Bring back Domi!”

#143 Stoopid Idiot on 12.10.12 at 4:31 pm

High-Frequency Trading
Updated: Dec. 4, 2012
Over the past few years, high-speed or high-frequency trading — known as H.F.T. — was the biggest new thing to hit Wall Street trading, and in the minds of many, the most disruptive. On any given day, this lightning-quick, computer-driven form of trading accounts for half of all of the business transacted on the nation’s stock markets.
Critics say H.F.T. has contributed to the hair-raising flash crashes and computer hiccups that seem to roil the markets with alarming frequency.
H.F.T. first became a significant part of the Wall Street scene in the 1980s, when it was blamed for exacerbating the market plunges in October 1987. Since then, the computers involved have grown vastly more powerful and the algorithms that guide their trading vastly more sophisticated.
For years, H.F.T. firms have operated in the shadows, often far from Wall Street, trading stocks at warp speed and reaping billions while criticism rose that they were damaging markets and hurting ordinary investors. More recently, they have been stepping into the light to buff their image with regulators, the public and other investors.
At the same time, figures suggest that the practice may be cooling down a bit. Profits from high-speed trading in American stocks were on track to be, at most, $1.25 billion in 2012, down 35 percent from 2011 and 74 percent lower than the peak of about $4.9 billion in 2009, according to estimates from the brokerage firm Rosenblatt Securities. And the percentage of stock trades handled by firms that specialize in H.F.T. fell to about 51 percent in 2012 from 60 percent in 2009.


#144 Iceland,Alberta on 12.10.12 at 4:34 pm

DR.WAYNE, did you just come on to this blog to fight?
Leave the “firsts” alone, after all they were here first.
Move along.

#145 Old Man on 12.10.12 at 4:34 pm

Now have some good news as have a snitch inside the halls of the elite, or the upper party if you will. It has been decided that the next 3 years will be some rock and roll, but will not allow the USD to collapse. They want a forced debt scenerio to adjust on the middle class, and then will pull the trigger. So the next few years will be clear sailing.

#146 Pr on 12.10.12 at 4:38 pm

Immobilier: les ventes plongent de 19% à Montréal


(but the price go up! Are they stupid are ignorant)

#147 Stoopid Idiot on 12.10.12 at 4:41 pm

The Employment Rate Has Been Under 59 Percent For 39 Months In A Row
Unemployment Is Not Going Down

Michael Snyder
December 10, 2012
The mainstream media is heralding the decline of the official unemployment rate to 7.7 percent as evidence that the U.S. economy is improving. But it is a giant lie. The truth is that unemployment in America is not actually going down. The percentage of working age Americans with a job actually dropped slightly in November. During the last recession, the percentage of working age Americans with a job fell from about 63 percent to under 59 percent and it has stayed there for 39 months in a row. In September 2009, during the depths of the last economic crisis, 58.7 percent of all working age Americans were employed. In November 2012, 58.7 percentof all working age Americans were employed. It is more then 3 years later, and we are in the exact same place! So how in the world are they able to pretend that the “unemployment rate” is going down steadily? Well, they get there by pretending that hundreds of thousands of unemployed workers “leave the labor force” each month. According to the government, another 350,000 Americans left the labor force during November, and when you keep pretending that huge chunks of workers “disappear” each month it is easy to get the “unemployment rate” to go down. But any idiot can see that there is something really funny about these numbers. Barack Obama has been president for less than four years, and during that time the number of Americans “not in the labor force” has increased by nearly 8.5 million. Something seems really “off” about that number, because during the entire decade of the 1980s the number of Americans “not in the labor force” only rose by about 2.5 million. At this point the official unemployment rate is so manipulated that it is of very little value at all.

The next time you cut-and-paste from a blog called The Economic Collapse tell us, so we can ignore it. — Garth

#148 Devore on 12.10.12 at 4:46 pm

#124 Mad Scientist

I can only make one comment – if we sell our resources to a foreign controlled corp – why can’t we buy that highly sought after “rare earth minerals” that China has –

“Rare” earth deposits are not rare at all. But only Chinese are refining them, and, ironically, hold the expertise to do so, which westerners are seeking to copy.

The Chinese are buying Canada, because Canadians are not. It seems we’d rather buy overpriced real estate. Stop whining, and put your money where your mouth is.

#149 renters rule on 12.10.12 at 4:59 pm

this blog is getting fifty shades of CREEPY


#150 Sparky55 on 12.10.12 at 5:14 pm


House is/was on the market for the last several years. Didn’t sell. Last listing started 409 days ago. Didn’t sell. What to do? Add $100,000 to the price, making it $849,000


PID 40854044

#151 Old Man on 12.10.12 at 5:15 pm

Ok want to get serious with the subject at hand in regards to an Estate. It would be prudent to have what is called a corporate sponser which would involve a Lawyer to document the proper papers; the Will and Last Testament; the Personal Power of Attorney, and the Medical Power of Attorney.

The corporate sponser can be a bank to wind up the Estate and they charge a fee, but they know what they are doing, as are regulated under the Law. Now for those that make a choice to appoint a relative or whatever, you will have fights from the heirs, and guess what? You will still need to hire a Lawyer to do most of the legal work – think about it!

#152 Canadian Watchdog on 12.10.12 at 5:16 pm

#140 Ray

BMO executive chief economist Sherry Cooper to retire effective Jan. 30

Yep. Now that senior execs have leveraged and looted BMO to the hilt they can reap their rewards and run like rats. It won't be long before Moody's downgrades Canadian banks. That's for sure.

#153 Vamanos Pest on 12.10.12 at 5:19 pm

Dr Wayne

Three university degrees and you have nothing better to contribute than to trash the “furrrrssts”

You surely are the pride of your alma mater.

#154 jess on 12.10.12 at 5:20 pm

“territorial tax system”


Discussed back in 2011

#155 Hoof - Hearted on 12.10.12 at 6:17 pm

#108 Dr. WAYNE on 12.10.12 at 12:15 pm

#66 Hoof – Hearted on 12.10.12 at 12:30 am

That’s three university degrees, by the way … and I love it when you talk dirty …

You got the 3rd degree?…..Yeah…so……?

Is that a threat, or am I supposed to laugh…..

#156 Hoof - Hearted on 12.10.12 at 6:24 pm

Interesting discussion on local CBC re the Trades.

Given the universities pump out / overcharge mostly useless degrees….(ask Dr Wayne, he’ll tell you as he hands you your fries and cheeseburger)

It appears that the Trades Training has been purposely downloaded and gutted so that employers have an excuse to import “skilled workers” that some other Gov’t has trained.

The cost savings of training someone useful IN CANADA can be directed into other ratholes.

#157 Taxc on 12.10.12 at 6:37 pm

Montreal implodes:


#158 Snowboid on 12.10.12 at 6:39 pm

#137 IM in C on 12.10.12 at 4:05 pm…

Maybe in some parts of the country, but the latest from Arizona State University is that there are only 3000 or so Phoenix homes in the ‘shadow inventory’. Even if they all came on the market at once it would hardly effect prices.

The overall statistics show three months of inventory, the lowest for nearly five years, when it was the same as Kelownas’ current MOI of fifteen.

There are still ‘delusional’ sellers here as well, however, who think the market has improved enough to ask $170K for homes that are really only worth $ 120K.

But anything still under $ 200K is ‘hot’ right now, so they may sell anyway!

#159 maxx on 12.10.12 at 6:47 pm

#39 Bill Gable on 12.09.12 at 10:04 pm

You’re a noble knight Mr. Gable.
It will indeed be a skinny Christmas for many, including retailers. 50-60-70-80% off at the malls. One shop employee said to me: ” the sign is not on that rack, but it’s all 2-for-1″. Even with prices dropping like a stone, the incentive to buy melts away. Wonder if there’s a behavioral parallel with RE?

#160 Dr. WAYNE on 12.10.12 at 6:55 pm

#152 Vamanos Pest on 12.10.12 at 5:19 pm

You surely are the pride of your alma mater.


As a matter of fact I am …

#161 Dividend Yield Investor on 12.10.12 at 7:17 pm

Is that Garth in drag Hot on the Ice?
Inquiring minds need to know!

Dividend Man

#162 Grasshoppa on 12.10.12 at 7:18 pm

Hi Garth….took your advice and sold the 4 bedroom home in Oakville. Took the money and bought a great home in Scottsdale AZ. They paid $825k in 07 and I bought it for $385k in 2010. Its worth $485k today.
Been renting in Toronto waiting for our local crash. Im ready. Thanks!

#163 Grasshoppa on 12.10.12 at 7:38 pm

oh, ps. I’ve rented Scottsdale out for $3k per month for 24 months. : )

#164 Debtfree on 12.10.12 at 7:42 pm

Sherry cooper is retiring . I guess she will be good advise from now on .

#165 Hoof - Hearted on 12.10.12 at 7:42 pm

Family member had a new house and pool built in Arizona….all in= $130,000.

Arizona borders Mexico and a pool of cheap labour that comes from South of the border.

It is cheap for a reason…and any dead cat bounce can be very misleading

#166 TurnerNation on 12.10.12 at 8:29 pm

If you wonder why your kid’s tuition is so high look no further than this gilded, ivory tower socialistic system:


#167 TurnerNation on 12.10.12 at 8:40 pm

Look at today’s Toronto houses sold.

A 15 foot wide junky semi runs 550-700,000. Anything else is 1-1.4 mill.



#168 Bigrider on 12.10.12 at 8:41 pm


Grasshoppa sounds like a househumpa.

385k now worth 485k my a$$. Not without spending on renos, fixups and the like. Market has not moved that much.

See this is the problem with RE investors/buyers. Since there are no second by second quotations (red and green arrows) like financial assets, you can say, or make believe, or delude yourself into believing what you have as a piece of RE is worth what you say it’s worth.

After all, everyone in T.O still believes that their home is worth as much as it was 6 months ago in the past spring market

#169 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.10.12 at 8:50 pm

#141 Buy? Curious? — “Now? The chess board is moving . . .” Interesting. Maybe this has something to do with it? Something is afoot, Watson! Or this — Economic Crisis as a WMD;
Unemployment Rate Somewhat detached from govt. stats; 1:50 clip (plus a 30 second ad to start). 25% of the world’s gold buried beneath the NY Fed.; China buys Canada and US too; Musician’s Bio Last name is Rothschild; Obomba’s Fiscal Cliff and Michigan At least something is happening; 10:58 clip Youth unemployment reaches 40% in Italy; Libor Racketeering; Double Taxation in California?
Billary No one is capable of putting a foot in one’s mouth quite like her; Cell Phones will be able to see thru walls soon; olice Officers or Cops Yesssirreee, they can get away with that; Climate Change Two short clips, one from Europe and one from the mid-west; Secession 700K people from different states have signed it; 2:26 clip Good Christian doctrine, ‘tho it must be said this family is not representative of all Christians; Black Boxes in Cars Who does the tracking? Facebook Not enough; A GM Connection? between agrobacterium and morgellons; Boosting Immune System.

#170 Vancouver nightmare on 12.10.12 at 9:17 pm


Not a matter of if…. But when

#171 BPOE's BrainFart on 12.11.12 at 4:21 pm

@#19 Hoofy
Mike Hunt…
More like Mike Hawk

#172 Picasso on 12.11.12 at 5:16 pm

December 11, 2012 1:03 PM

OTTAWA — The Bank of Canada’s warnings about coming interest rate hikes may already be reaping benefits, including changing the behaviour of consumers, governor Mark Carney says…