The gene pool

From trailer parks to condos, the world’s changing, and this pathetic blog has it all covered. Be mindful of what I’ve told you lately about the big shift. The days of rising real estate values are over as we enter a phase of price inflation and asset deflation which will last years. This is the holy trinity of financial survival: balance, diversification and liquidity. Amen, brothers & sisters. Praise be.

A week or two ago I wrote about the burgeoning black market in Toronto condo sales. This happens when new projects open their sales doors, then evil speckers and flippers load up on units, never intending to close the deals. They make sure they have assignment clauses in their agreements, giving them the right to sell before closing to another party, but almost always the developer prevents this from happening in public. Doing so, of course, would just hurt his ongoing sales effort.

When things were booming in the good old insane days, these units would trade at higher values until the building was up and occupied, when the MLS market clicked in. But no more. With new condo sales crashed by 50% and over 18,000 unoccupied units sitting idle, the condo market is fading faster than my civility. So guess what’s happening to (a) prices and (b) the speckers?

Yup, they’re both hooped.

Here’s a private pitch being circulated to GTA-area realtors by one guy who’s built a business around black market condo sales:

Since 2007, I have been exclusively practicing with Assignments and Bulk Pre-Sales in Toronto’s Downtown core. Currently I have over 100 assignable units that cannot be placed on the MLS (as per builder contract) however, they have the right to assign and I have signed them to Exclusive Listings.
These properties are selling for significantly lower prices than builders & market value (some with savings over $1,000,000).
Selling Commissions range from 3%-4% (paid on assignment closing date) which is significantly more than the average being offered on Re-Sale through MLS.
I have prepared client friendly feature sheets so that you can personalize them and send to your clients. If you have a client or if you would be interested in marketing these properties through your data base click below.
Assignments can be very lucrative and very easy to understand.
Thank you for your time and I look forward to working with you soon.

As you can see, there are lots of people desperately trying to get out of their pre-build deals, and willing to take a haircut (of up to $1 million) to do so. Obviously the geniuses who signed the agreements never saw this collapse coming, and don’t have the funds to close. They either bail out now and lose a lot, or stagger to the finish line and lose everything, ending up with a unit worth less than they’re paying for it, which rents for negative cash flow.

Isn’t capitalism fun?

Now, back to BC for a moment, but not the metrosexual, latte-sucking, Vespa-riding, vacuous urban bits that I spent a good chunk of my week in, fighting off babes. Instead, let’s visit with some trailer park people, who apparently took a wrong turn and drove their F-150 directly into the side of this blog.

My wife and I live in a small BC mountain town. Great place. In the mid 2000s when real estate was going nuts the town also built a kick-ass ski-hill and real estate got pumped with a double-whammy. Houses that were previously 130K went to over 300K. 250K went to 450K in a relatively short period of time.

During this time I was away attending University like a good little boy so I missed out on the sweet sweet affordable living. I moved back in 2008 and met a great gal in 2009. At this time I was only employed seasonally and my girlfriend (now wife) didn’t make much so in 2010 we bought a trailer for 85K on a rented lot, the only affordable buying opportunity in town. I know what you’re thinking, “white trash trailer park boys”, but you city folk don’t understand. The place was built in 2008, almost new, no renos needed, 924 sq/ft with a nice little yard and cheap to heat. And with double-up mortgage payment and pad rental we’re paying $200-$400 less per month than renting a house and at least $100 less per month in utilities. We like living here. Oh ya, and I should mention that there are zero empty trailer pads in town to put a new trailer on so the prices are inflated quite a bit. I actually got a really good deal, one down the street from me that is identical went for 119K a year later.

So time has moved on and now we have good jobs (difficult to do in this town). We’ve been very disciplined and piled a bunch of money away.

I have agreed with your projection of Canadian real estate for some time. In fact a year ago I put my place up for sale to try and make a profit and wait it out renting for a few years. After a couple of price drops we still haven’t seen much action so here is my dilemma: Should we make a drastic price drop and try to get what we paid for it or stay in this cheap living situation during this inevitable drop in real estate and keep piling the money away?

Long live the trailer park! Tks, George.

Well, dude, 924 square feet is about double what the delusionals in Yaletown slither around in, and they paid six times as much. No back yard. Strata fees. No place for the truck, the chainsaw, the quad, the sled, the Doberman, the old-bathtub planter in front or the two years’ worth of empties that I know you trailer people like to collect. So who’s really smart?

Seriously, Georgie, nothing wrong with a trailer, especially one with wheels. But if you’ve had this thing for sale for an entire year, that has to tell you something. You’ve got the wrong price. Now that the market is weakening everywhere, even among you inbred mountain people, if you’re serious about unloading, you must ask less. But if that just gets you back to your original sales price, and you still have to pay rent, what’s the point? Sure, you might lose another 15%, but selling at par will also cost you in commissions, legals and moving costs. No win.

You say you’re happy living in the trailer. Does that include your wife? Does she split wood and skin things? Or are you just cheap? I think we need to hear from her.

263 comments ↓

#1 TurnerNation on 08.24.12 at 10:12 pm

Go long cowboy boots?

#2 bassam L. on 08.24.12 at 10:21 pm

Stick to being cheap for a while, and don’t buy into the delusions Mr. Turmer warns against.

#3 First on 08.24.12 at 10:24 pm

Furrrrrrrsttttt?? Finally!

#4 Ayn Rand on 08.24.12 at 10:30 pm

That was so hilarious – still giggling. Thanks for the witty words. Still laughing…..

#5 Form Man on 08.24.12 at 10:31 pm

stay in the trailer George. Sounds like you have a pretty good life.

#6 Spiltbongwater on 08.24.12 at 10:36 pm

Where are the pics of the wife?

#7 Devore on 08.24.12 at 10:39 pm

The test for buying (or not selling) is when it is cheaper to own than rent. Even if prices slide even further, you’re still ahead buying vs renting. This is the situation in many US markets. It is cheaper to buy, but many refuse to, in part because they are afraid of further price drops. Irrelevant. It’s a place to live, not an investment; you have to spend money on either owning/occupancy expenses, or on rent. Pick the one that costs less and suits your situation (ie don’t buy, ever, if you don’t expect to live there 5 years or more).

The reverse is also true. If renting is cheaper than buying, you’re falling behind every month when you buy, and can only come out ahead by selling at an inflated price that covers the difference after expenses.

And, George’s problem is obviously he does not have a hard working enough realtor. The price is fine. If his agent worked a little harder, the trailer would have sold already. Maybe he could “market” the listing, you know, tie some balloons to the mailbox and distribute flyers?

#8 bsallergy on 08.24.12 at 10:58 pm

Just got back from dampcouver. Such a funny place . . . was staying with my aunt and uncle in their $2 million tear down. The city has no industry other than renovating or demolishing and building houses. Beyond that is seems like a pricey adult theme park . . . and tourism has such high paying jobs. Funny thing is you sometimes have 7 for sale signs in a row even in the ritzier areas. Guess there must be something special about sipping lattes in the rain.

#9 Canadian Watchdog on 08.24.12 at 11:02 pm

Charts:

Greater Vancouver MLS Listings: By Price Range (Sample Count Only)

Greater Vancouver MLS Listings: By Year Built (Sample Count Only)

#10 Karla on 08.24.12 at 11:18 pm

Does George live in Fernie, BC? His description fits my little mountain town. The market has been slow since 2008. My husband and I bought a new home in January of 2009 and it took us more than six months to sell the house we moved out of (not wise to buy before you sell, but we had a reasonable financial cushion and put down 40% on the house we bought).

Fernie has a population of about 4,500 full time residents (many Calgarians own vacation properties here). There have been about 85 houses for sale on any given day over the past three years. Am I wrong, or is this a significant inventory for a town of this size?

#11 Karla on 08.24.12 at 11:20 pm

I want to add that the home my husband and I bought was new to us, and not actually new. It was a 1972 home on .4 of an acre, near to the downtown, that requires a lot of updating.

#12 Bo Xilai on 08.24.12 at 11:24 pm

Let me guess, Revelstoke?

#13 cranbrook on 08.24.12 at 11:26 pm

Not a Dobbie Garth! A Rottie, in them there parts. It gets cold.

#14 Kootenay Ma on 08.24.12 at 11:29 pm

O My Goodness !?
THAT was Benny ? Didn’t hear who he was but heard his words (‘higher propensity’ gave it away) as I was driving home in my own F-150 to our sweet rental by the lake in our BC mountain town…. Noticed right away his stats were absent and his predictions were empty. Even if I hadn’t understood exactly what he was trying to convince us all of, the many times he used ‘propensity’ would have scared me off …. “Methinks he doth protest too much” – the math doesn’t work, the RE cheerleaders are tired but still grinning and waving the pompoms as hard as they can. I am grateful for the great education I have received on this blog from Garth and everyone through the years. Helps so much to see through the smoke (and mirrors) out there, and chart a clean course as best we can.

#15 WRONG on 08.24.12 at 11:39 pm

even among you inbred mountain people,

You really are mentally retarded! Mountain people have guns…….and they don’t take kindly to be called “inbred”. In Canada this is called a Hate Crime, would you like me to report it now? I’m sure the MSM and the hate crime police will be all over it. I hear they do a great job of investigating these thing, enough so to keep your lawyers busy at your expense!

You have the Internet, too? — Garth/em>

#16 Roial1 on 08.24.12 at 11:39 pm

KJarla, If you ski, you live in heaven. I have been there and to all of the ski towns in B.C. Fernie is one of the best. the other best is Rossland. You can stick Whistler where the sun don’t shine in comparison.

Al

#17 No more union small towns in BC for this guy on 08.24.12 at 11:42 pm

Could be Fernie, Golden, Revelstoke, Smithers. All the towns are the same still relying on mills and unions, and mines and unions. Skip, Skip, Brotherhood hiring their relatives, yada yada. Can you say clicky de click for small BC towns.

#18 midcentury on 08.24.12 at 11:51 pm

Anybody care to clarify this “condo assignment thingy”. Am I correct with this line of thinking: I agree to buy a condo–let’s say for 100K–and put down 20%. Before closing I sell the assignment to someone else who gives me 100K ??? Therefore I just made 80K for doing nothing. That does sound like fun!!

Is that correct or am I missing something? Garth sort of skipped over the details.

In that instance, you made nothing. — Garth

#19 Saskatoon-Living on 08.24.12 at 11:55 pm

Hahahaha! Funniest post in a while. Posting a trailer park letter and then calling the guy an inbred………priceless.

Just wait until we do Saskatoon. — Garth

#20 Paully on 08.25.12 at 12:01 am

Who wouldn’t want a woman who could split wood, skin things and drive an F150? She probably loves hockey too. It wouldn’t matter where you lived!

#21 Paully on 08.25.12 at 12:03 am

#15 WRONG

Ask your wife and your sister to explain satire to you.

You will only have to ask the question once…

#22 midcentury on 08.25.12 at 12:08 am

Okay. Think I get it. I have to pay the asking price fully–100k–then hope the value goes up so I can assign it at a higher value before the closing date.

Sorry if its a dumb question. Was born without the capitalist gene, but am learning lots from this blog.

#23 Einzatgruppen kanada on 08.25.12 at 12:09 am

Above: Dacshund on watch for buttered toast…

“.. We’ve been very disciplined and piled a bunch of money away.”

Garth 2nd the wife – where & how money bunch?

#24 cj on 08.25.12 at 12:23 am

Too funny. Best yet. I’d also like to hear what his wife thinks.

#25 earlymidlifecrisis on 08.25.12 at 12:29 am

Thanks! I needed this post tonight. The opportunity to rent a trailer 15 mins out of town for $420 less p/m has presented itself today. I really dont want to be 15 mins out of town and really dont want move #5 but it will be cheaper to ride out the stagnation until the fall market shows what its going to do. (and i can get a dog!) I’ve been mulling it over all day. What do you see for the non-kelowna okanagan this fall/winter? Maybe i’d better do it b/c who knows if or when i’ll be able to get a job here. All right! Thanks for the trailer park thumbs up! BTW- looked at a sweet property the other day; huge but dated house needing a touch of work but 100k LESS than i sold my condo for and on a 1/2 acre lot. I need to know whats going on here garth. i am cautious b/c i read every blog but dont want to miss a good opportunity either.

#26 Jim Lahey, Sunnyvale Trailer Park Supervisor on 08.25.12 at 12:29 am

“Long live the trailer park! Tks, George”

Glad to see another blog reader has seen the light. Well done George and please do come out to Sunnyvale to see how your east coast trailer park denizens are doing. A good time to come out will be for the SASTPGFBDCParty. Your will get a real kick out of Bubbles, Ricky, Julian, Randy and the rest of the Sunnyvale gang.

#27 wrong on 08.25.12 at 12:47 am

You have the Internet, too? — Garth/em>

Well gee willikers Boss Hog we have lots more dan Int-er-net in das mountains. We’s got all kinds of der high tech web tecks nologies…….

#28 KommyKim on 08.25.12 at 12:53 am

The latest way to buy a condo in Colwood (Victoria, BC) with almost nothing down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxByBqsksfk

Now they don’t mention it in the video, but this is how I believe it works:
If the lender fronts you some money, say 20% of the “sale” price, they will then get 40% of the condo’s future appreciation plus the initial loan amount upon the future sale of the unit.

Unleash the blog dogs!

#29 bcgirl on 08.25.12 at 12:57 am

Thanks Garth for another great article.

Sounds like the BC town I live in, yeah, they’re all pretty similar…mountains, unions, ski hills, and lots of wrinkly ones,( but I guess that part’s true everywhere).

My young family member seems to be deciding to wait on buying a house, and is getting it that $300,000 isn’t Monopoly money even if the banks seem to think so. He met with a mortgage broker the other day who actually told him to slow down and wait to buy, that he’s underwater himself. I’m impressed by his integrity I have to say.

Whew. Hopefully the good sense holds.

#30 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.25.12 at 1:02 am


“The gene pool is fading faster than my civility.” — A good wrap-up of this week’s columns!
*
Meter Murder Esp. for the hard-up, and Numbers to back it up; Another 18 months? think again. It’s gonna be a lot longer than that; 0:35 clip Palestinians invent solar car to avoid buying gas from Israel; Cdn. Friday links; Cdn. stocks paying US dividends; Hark! The Bernanketh speaks and all shall listen; The Trash Index Most of us are in it; The Amazons’ Locker Well, not really; Dennis Gartman dumping stocks.

Chart of the Day China, and this is what the CPC is concerned about, because as China goes, so do we; High Yield Crops; In Defense of the Hedge Fund industry; Spend Wisely? Stop the wars; Biz. cutting spending; Lower wages means less spending; US$20 Trillion Debt which can be passed on to the next admin.; Record Profits while citizens struggle.
*
Back from the dead Literally; Closet Aliens; Blundering cop Assange shouldn’t have any trouble if idiots like this are around. Besides, what crimes has he committed? Mayan Civilization Disintegration, similar to the west today; Balmoral Queen She’s driving, to boot; Devil Spider Monkey eats fingers; 6:18 clip Present wars are designed to segregate, leave the healthy and terminate the rest; ‘Quake Predictor Bay or BC area? Fruits and Veggies Storing without plastic; Next Generation beyond Concorde. Pix in; Link Found between solar activity and cold, European winters; China Building better missiles; Bye Bye PC; Sesame Street The Count’s voice moves on to a better life; China New bridge collapses. As far as I know, a Chinese company is rebuilding the Golden State bridge; Bend it like Beckham Direct from a corner; Hemp Homes Getting high the easy way; Facial Recognition FBI sharing; Forsaken and Forgotten and Manufactured Obomba’s martial law, keeping him in power.

#31 Ex-Edmonton Mortgage Broker on 08.25.12 at 1:04 am

ah Revelstoke. the place of broken (real estate) dreams. my first time there back in ’07, they were flogging mountain side chalets with helicopter pads and everyone thought they were going to be millionaires.

seems every time we go back for that champagne pow, there seem to be more and more who’ve joined the ranks of the local U.I ski team. i’d be surprised if there’s a single local there with a full time job.

#32 Nuke on 08.25.12 at 1:12 am

Live on quiet street in a development where community townhouses were built with freehold tow houses. I moved into the public housing and raised a family. The rent was 900 now 22 years later it’s 1200. But that’s ok since I have new hardwood kitchen, roof, appliances, Windows etc. the freehold townhouses go for over a million. But they have smaller back yards and are on the noisy side of the street. Also we get the inner park and community laundreymat. I shake my head and can’t understand why someone would pay 1 mil to live next to public housing that costs a fraction.

#33 Kootenay Ma on 08.25.12 at 1:28 am

Can split wood, vegetarian so don’t really skin things, tho I can brain tan deer hide…. a lost art…. grew up playing hockey ya its true and can wrestle huckleberries into pies pretty good too :)

#34 TRT on 08.25.12 at 1:31 am

Victoria’s Secret moving into space left vacant by HMV on Robson..

Word getting out in South Asian Community that immigration changes coming January 1st are going to shake migration patterns and composition of extended families. This appearance of “fear” may drive down the sales of large homes in Surrey. Common folk are becoming aware of the changes coming.

#35 Rig Dog on 08.25.12 at 1:45 am

Lighten up on the guy. Just because he met his fiancee at a family reunion is no reason to poke fun at him.

Or… yeah… it is. Carry on!

Seriously, it is all about minimizing your shelter expenses in a falling market. If he can live for next to nothing, good for him. As to selling, GT has a point; at the end of the day will your new digs cost you more or less than the present one?

To put this into perspective, when my wife and I bought our first house many moons ago, we went from renting a 850 sq. ft. apartment to buying a 600 sq. foot house.

The deciding factor, I kid you not, was that we could save the difference in laundry as we had a washer and a dryer in the house. Other than that, the apartment was a better deal.

#36 Van guy on 08.25.12 at 2:26 am

#18 midcentury on 08.24.12 at 11:51 pm
Anybody care to clarify this “condo assignment thingy”. Am I correct with this line of thinking: I agree to buy a condo–let’s say for 100K–and put down 20%. Before closing I sell the assignment to someone else who gives me 100K ??? Therefore I just made 80K for doing nothing. That does sound like fun!!

Is that correct or am I missing something? Garth sort of skipped over the details.
————————————————————–

This is why this blog is so pathetic. We have kids here too trolling.

#37 dd on 08.25.12 at 2:33 am

Sounds like Revelstoke BC.

#38 Tony on 08.25.12 at 2:47 am

Re: #7 Devore on 08.24.12 at 10:39 pm

Outside of the major cities in Canada it’s cheaper to buy than rent everywhere. Like America when it costs twice as much to rent than to own with a mortgage you have to make a value judgment on what may be the bottom of the decline.

#39 Soylent Green is People on 08.25.12 at 3:02 am

fading faster than my civility

Lololollo

O
O
O

#40 eagle eyes on 08.25.12 at 3:13 am

There was a letter to the editor in our local Richmond newspaper. Some resident wrote in about how fed up he was that foreign money would buy a McMansion with no intention of moving in, leaving it vacant. Inevitably, the grass would grow wild, the exterior looks ill kept, and squatters would move in. He went on about how locals couldn’t afford a decent home because of the foreigners with their dirty money driving prices beyond the reach of your average buyer. He was disgusting by the fact that neighbourhoods in Richmond aren’t filled with kids playing outside, but empty cold houses.

This letter really hits home and rings true. Nobody wants to speak of this reality, because we would be called racist. What is wrong is that homeowners are so happy to have struck it rich by selling to these foreigners. They are angry if their pathetic dog shacks sell for a penny less than a million dollars. Yet after they sell and pocket the money they have the nerve to complain about it? This whole picture is ugly and distorted. It starts with our ugly and distorted politicians selling us out.

#41 Dirk The Daring on 08.25.12 at 3:17 am

#15 WRONG

Heh, mountain people are so cute when they’re angry. all a’fussin and a’cussin and the like

#42 Buy? Curious? on 08.25.12 at 5:01 am

What has this blog come to? That picture of the crowd attending your public speaking engagement (Sweet home, Alabama!) and now giving advice to trailer park dewellers? Hey, can anyone tell me where can I get the best return on empty beer bottles? Laker, of course.

I have a real question though. This 70% of Canadian home ownership, isn’t that a good thing? How much of the remaining 30% is actually doing it by choice? The people I know that rent (not personally because I don’t rub shoulders with poor people, they’re losers from my high school days) can’t afford buying a place no matter what the financial landscape is. Isn’t high ownership a great thing for the country, trailer or no trailer?

Who wants to listen to Lynard Skynard’s Saturday Night Special with me?

#43 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:06 am

The days of rising real estate values are over as we enter a phase of price inflation and asset deflation
—-
You have to pick one, inflation or deflation, sorry you can’t have both at the same time.

Rising and falling prices for different things is a separate issue to whether or not the money supply is expanding, contracting or stays the same.

Gold has not gone up this week, the dollar went down. Gold didn’t DO anything, it just is. You see? Capiche?

I won’t give up. I’ll keep pointing this out until you get it. I’m a patient man.

#44 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:18 am

Isn’t capitalism fun?
—-
No, capitalism is not fun, it’s hard work in free markets.

The problems today have nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with government intervention if free markets, hence rendering them un-free.

So lets get these government idiots out of economics, money and banking and only in the business of law and order and national defense and that’s it. Business does the rest full stop.

This position is the most ethical because is supports to rights of all individuals to choose for themselves how they want to spend their money.

Capiche?
(love that word)

#45 Buy? Curious? on 08.25.12 at 5:22 am

Put your lighters in the air!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBoeY0AAec

#46 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:26 am

Buddy, I”ll buy your trailer off you if you throw in your wife. :)

#47 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:33 am

Of course it’s the right thing to do if she’s his sister. lol

#48 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:44 am

#20 Paully on 08.25.12 at 12:01 am

Who wouldn’t want a woman who could split wood, skin things and drive an F150? She probably loves hockey too. It wouldn’t matter where you lived!
——
If she didn’t give a dame about hocky, she’d be perfect for me because neigher do I.

PS, I’m Jewish and I’m from Quebec.

#49 drydock on 08.25.12 at 7:49 am

#15 Wrong.

A society so corrupted by political correctness it outlaws humor is not long for this world.

#50 Mr Buyer on 08.25.12 at 7:53 am

#38 Tony on 08.25.12 at 2:47 am
Re: #7 Devore on 08.24.12 at 10:39 pm

Outside of the major cities in Canada it’s cheaper to buy than rent everywhere. Like America when it costs twice as much to rent than to own with a mortgage you have to make a value judgment on what may be the bottom of the decline.
…………………………………………………….
I think the point here is that the rents are crazy high as well as the house prices but they will go down along with house prices. They did in Japan when their bubble collapsed.

#51 John on 08.25.12 at 8:02 am

Blue Monster wrote:

“So lets get these government idiots out of economics, money and banking and only in the business of law and order and national defense and that’s it. Business does the rest full stop.

This position is the most ethical because is supports to rights of all individuals to choose for themselves how they want to spend their money.”
——-

Government, economics, banking, and business.

It’s fine to throw around satire…even fun if it’s well done. But speaking of reality, are you aware if what is going on with those four elements right now?

The old dynamic is over. Lots of people in Vancouver believe in words like “correction”, as if things can “right themselves” in such a way that the old paradigm continues. That we can shave “40 percent” off of a bunch of world casino chip and people just “take losses” and then everyone “keeps playing”. 40 percent of what?

Plus, how could you allow a muppet, who offers no value to the casino, to keep hundreds of thousands of dollars
(which 40 percent off would allow)…if it doesn’t help the casino.

If you can make a case for muppets having value in the coming “psuedo correction”, including some kind of supporting logic which involves your four terms…plus meats and vegetables…great.

Let’s hear it.

#52 Reclaim The Commons on 08.25.12 at 8:17 am

“Isn’t capitalism fun?”

HAHA. Was not expecting that line! Great timing.

Capitalism is oudated — it is based on ideological 18th and 19th century property relations — which developed out of primitive scientific and technological skills (to say the least). It’s time will come eventually like other ephocs before it.

When you have massive vacant housing units (especially when we examine the situation in the US) and a growing homeless population, it is not not hard to deduce that capitalism has a very unequal, immoral, and inefficient distrbituional system (for the basis of human needs). Empty houses juxtoposed with people who do not have sufficient dwelling — similar to the immense waste that perpetuates within the food industry, and peoples homes etc.

DOWN WITH CAPITALISM!

#53 X on 08.25.12 at 8:30 am

re #18 – techinically after RE agent fees, you would have lost a little bit.

#54 Piccaso on 08.25.12 at 8:33 am

Inbred mountain trailer trash… lol

You should see some of my neighbours here at the Econo Lodge in Dallas where I’ve lived the last two years.

There’s some long haired, silver beard, no teeth, social security types that have lived here more then a decade, but there all on the backside of the motel.

Then there’s your normal types like me :) that work at full time jobs… nurses, engineers, etc.. that used to have homes living on the frontside of the motel facing the pool. lol

Hey man, the price is right at $700 a month and those little illegal mexican girls come in smiling every morning to change my sheets and towels, empty my garbage and vacuum, wipe the mirrors and windows, clean the sink, toilet and shower.

I make $120 G a year down here but this where I want to be, if my contract ends suddenly or i need to go home for some reason… i’m gone. I have no lease to worry about, no furniture to sell, etc, etc.

Just pack the suitcase and i’m out of here.

#55 Editor on 08.25.12 at 8:36 am

#42 how many of the 30% rent by choice? I don’t know but is it fair to stereotype?

My family rents by choice. We sold our house last year and it was well within guidelines for percentage of our net worth. The mortgage was paid off. It was in a good neighbourhood. We rent in another good neighborhood. We just think the housing in our major cities are outrageously overpriced and underwhelming in quality and it was time to get out. Can we be the only ones? Also quality rentals go to multi-year international assignees. Oh we probably wouldn’t have rubbed shoulders in high school with you either. Too busy learning to do math and use it.

#56 Editor on 08.25.12 at 8:43 am

PS it’s not the high ownership per se that is the problem, it’s the high ownership that is heavily indebted given high prices and cheap credit. That is just not healthy … And it’ not actual ownership. If 70% owned houses that were valued at say 1 or 2 times income and held them mortgage free, that would be very different. Then you have different issues, such as who’s left to buy.

#57 FTP - First Time Poster on 08.25.12 at 8:56 am

Good commentary from Ice Cap Management (tongue in cheek of course). Here is part of their assessment on Canada:

“Except for the commodity powerhouses, most provincial finances are not improving. At the same time, conversations about Canada’s near-mythical real estate markets are turning more worrisome”

Read the rest here on Page 7:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/103841145/IceCapAssetManagementLimitedGlobalMarkets-August-2012

#58 Country Girl on 08.25.12 at 9:41 am

George,
It’s likely better to keep enjoying the low-cost yet comfortable home and yard that you have vs risk renting into a new home where life may not be so good.

#59 eaglebay - Parksville on 08.25.12 at 9:49 am

#40 eagle eyes on 08.25.12 at 3:13 am
“they have the nerve to complain about it? This whole picture is ugly and distorted. It starts with our ugly and distorted politicians selling us out.”
_______________

People did it to themselves.
People make their own decisions wether to sell, buy or vote. Duh…

#60 Opus on 08.25.12 at 9:57 am

George,

I think you guys were really wise to go trailer instead of super extending yourselves. Who cares if some ignorant people make assumptions about ‘who you are’.
I wanted to buy a trailer when prices got crazy here as it was very tempting to live mortgage free! (that is plenty of extra money to sock away each month)
Hubby said no, I still think this is a brilliant way to
secure financial future. I think trailers are way under rated and especially being single people-totally doable.
I mean let’s be honest, kids could live there too, big deal, but storage would be the issue I would worry about with kids in tow. Some Trailers rule!
Stay put until you need more space, rent is expensive!

#61 daz on 08.25.12 at 10:00 am

For a very informative overview of how we got into the mess the movie The Flaw is worth a gander (Its on youtube and USA Netflix):

http://www.theflawmovie.com/

Not very flattering to capitalisim and how wealth inequality and toxic dedt have screwed us.

One can’t help but draw comparisons to canadian real estate, especially Vancity….

Troubling times ahead

#62 big T on 08.25.12 at 10:00 am

when is someone going to describe the next stage,
life after amagedon? cant see many winners, lots of
losers, “mad max”, or “grapes of wrath” I have to plan!

#63 Ronaldo on 08.25.12 at 10:08 am

Sounds like Revelstoke. Have a relative who lives there in likely the same trailer court. Around 2007 or so when the building was going strong, he was offered 90,000 for his old probably 1960’s model 12 x 60. Pad rent about 250. Paid for trailer. Cheap living. Decided not to sell as couldn’t replace it with anything as no money and prices of houses were quite high at the time. Today would be lucky to get half what offered back then. He figures was a phoney price anyway and everything else has gone down just as bad. He’s no worse off and still living the affordable lifestyle.

#64 daz on 08.25.12 at 10:09 am

post 43….blue monster

Yes you can have deflation and inflation…asseset deflation (houses) and inflation of goods and services.

It was when houses stopped being goods and became assests that drove up the prices to insane levels and created the bubble.

time will tell

#65 Grantmi on 08.25.12 at 10:12 am

#6 Spiltbongwater on 08.24.12 at 10:36 pm

Where are the pics of the wife?

To hell with pics of the wife….. Where’s pics of the trailer!!!!

#66 Mntrlr here on 08.25.12 at 10:14 am

Hey looking at stats here on the average selling price of a single family home in Calgary, and it is down about $18,000 from June, that’s nothing to sneeze at.

Currently living in Montreal for an assignment, and I must say we have a mega housing bubble that’s going to pop here, especially in the area I am renting in called The Plateau Area of Montreal.

People had paid $500,000-$600,000 for many units in my area last winter and are trying to flip them this summer with no luck, it won’t end pretty here. Who want to pay $500,000 for a 2 bedroom unit that has needles in the back alley, graffiti on the side and homeless living across the way on the street? Sure it a cool area, but most people only ant to rent.

It won’t end good here, a looming election with a fascist separatist party in the lead… and 57% of all the people in Quebec have NO savings for an emergency! Eeks! I’m praying…

#67 Grantmi on 08.25.12 at 10:17 am

#54 Piccaso on 08.25.12 at 8:33 am

Hey man, the price is right at $700 a month and those little illegal mexican girls come in smiling every morning to change my sheets and towels, empty my garbage and vacuum, wipe the mirrors and windows, clean the sink, toilet and shower.

What…. No little mint on the pillow? What a dump!

#68 Spiltbongwater on 08.25.12 at 10:17 am

Trailer Park Rules

1 No cars up on blocks for longer than three years.

2 No draining your oil onto the street.

3 No loud and wild parties without inviting the manager.

4 You may have no more than 3 beer can wind chimes
each only having no more than 6 cans each.

5 Drunkenness will not be tolerated in the streets prior
to 10 am.

6 While outside of your trailer you must be at least
partially clothed.

7 If you prefer to clean your trailer in the nude, please
close the curtains.

8 When bringing in the Jerry Springer or COPS film
crews, please provide the management prior written
notice so that certain residents may be forewarned.

9 Empty beer bottles should not be discarded on the
front lawn. However, they may remain there until you
are sober enough to collect them with the under-
standing you will collect them within 7 days whether
sober or not.

10 When bringing dates home to your trailer, please be
advised that in the event the sidewalks need to be
repaired or replaced due to the weight of your date, you
will be responsible for all cost incurred.

#69 Ronaldo on 08.25.12 at 10:19 am

#58 Oasis –

You have to pick one, inflation or deflation, sorry you can’t have both at the same time.
____________________________________________

apparently, Garth knows more about inflation and deflation than Friedman and Schwartz.

They can happen simultaneously, as now and as in the US for the past five years. — Garth

You obviously were not around in the mid 70’s when we had a housing bust and runaway inflation with wage and price conrols……

#70 Daisy Mae on 08.25.12 at 10:30 am

#43 BLUE MONSTER: “You have to pick one, inflation or deflation, sorry you can’t have both at the same time.”

***************

Why?

INFLATION is a rise in the general level of prices for goods and services.

DELATION means hard assets (real estate) are worth less causing consumers to question purchases.

We consumers are cutting back on both….

#71 Piccaso on 08.25.12 at 10:52 am

#68 Grantmi on 08.25.12 at 10:17 am

What…. No little mint on the pillow? What a dump!
——————————————————-

Sorry no mint, but the surgery nurse 3 doors down is always bringing me fresh baked chocolate chip and peanut butter cookies. She’s even knocking on my door weekend mornings with a full breakfast of scrambled eggs, bacon, hashbrowns, biscuits and gravy.

I think she’s looking for something? lol

#72 Tony on 08.25.12 at 11:01 am

Re: #42 Buy? Curious? on 08.25.12 at 5:01 am

Ironically the quote losers will become the winners in the near and distant future here in Canada. The owners of houses will watch their net worth dwindle until the market hits bottom.

#73 Aussie Roy on 08.25.12 at 11:09 am

Aussie Headlines

Property fire sale in ski town

SNOW lovers are expected to grab a bargain at the biggest auction of Mt Buller property in history.
With blocks of land from $45,000 and apartments starting at $125,000 mum-and-dad bidders are expected to join major investors as 24 of the Victorian skiing mountain’s properties go under the hammer in October.

Auctioneers expect many of the properties will sell at a 15-20 per cent discount.

http://www.news.com.au/realestate/investing/victorians-to-grab-a-bargain-at-biggest-auction-of-mt-buller-property-in-history-in-october/story-fndbarft-1226457848838

For sale: Crime mansions with secret rooms and dark pasts

Sydney’s glamorous gangster pads cannot find buyers. The million-dollar mansions belonging to drug dealer Seong Lee and bikie boss, Comanchero president Mick Hawi, are both available at discounted prices after they dropped their asking prices.

Agents have struggled to find buyers for the properties, which come with chequered pasts. Even outlandish premium features have failed to peak interest.

Lee’s former home in Chifley, in Sydney’s east, includes a secret cellar only accessible by a two-person lift hidden beneath the dining room floor. It is believed to contain a bank vault.

http://www.news.com.au/realestate/news/for-sale-sydney-crime-mansions-with-secret-rooms-and-dark-pasts/story-fnd91nhy-1226457843394

#74 DM in C on 08.25.12 at 11:18 am

#42

We rent by choice. I’m a VP at my co and make in the six figure range. We’ve owned in the past but it’s not a good decision, not right now, and not in Calgary. I’m at the peak of where I can go professionally — particularly in this city, so why tie myself down at 42. There’s lots of options out there.

I suspect the 30% has a few like us in it.

#75 Calgary Car Guy on 08.25.12 at 11:27 am

I live in a 40 year old single wide mobile home just outside of Calgary. It’s not in a trailer park though and I’m sure that can make quite a difference. It’s cheap rent and that is very important to a divorced alimony-paying guy like me. I did a mini-reno on the place when I moved in and, quite frankly, couldn’t be happier living here. It’s just the right size for me. The only down-side is the property it’s on is very valuable rec property and at some point my landlord will sell. As long as real estate values stay flat or go down I should be good here for a while. After living here if I had to move into a normal apartment in the city and pay normal rent I’d go nuts and probably broke. I thank my lucky stars every day for this place and the generosity of my landlord. Don’t knock mobile homes in other words. I would live in one again in a heartbeat.

#76 Piccaso on 08.25.12 at 11:30 am

#70 Ronaldo on 08.25.12 at 10:19 am

You obviously were not around in the mid 70′s when we had a housing bust and runaway inflation with wage and price conrols……
——————————————————–

I remember the 80’s when we had 20% interest rates and a housing bust. I was young and naive and had bought a townhouse for $70,000. I ended up walking away from it like 1000’s of others and AHMC finally auctioned those townhouses off for $25,000 if I remember correctly.
I went and saw a lawyer first on what I wanted to do and how to go about it.. lol. He pulled a sheet of paper out of his desk drawer that had all the info on it, obviously I wasn’t his first visitor.
It said I had 6 months after stopping my mortgage payments. It said don’t answer the phone or the doorbell, keep your curtains closed, when you leave put the keys on the kitchen counter and leave the place clean.
That’s exactly what I did and moved right into a house I bought for $73,000 assuming a $65,000 mortgage that the previous owner had paid $125,000 for new.
Ya… those were the days!

#77 Mntrlr here on 08.25.12 at 11:35 am

Anyone have any ideas on a new separatist government in Québec and it’s effect on the Housing Bust?

I have a friend here in montreal that’s ready to close down his business and split if the separatist party gets in, and I won’t be far behind him. But, I was wondering if we get a separatist party winning a majority in Québec would it beat down the dollar again? If the dollar softens against the US dollar interest rates would have to be hiked more quickly wouldn’t they?

Just a thought!

#78 SRV on 08.25.12 at 11:51 am

Stay and enjoy George.

You are a great example of the benefit of living within your means… now if only the rest of society figure it out we’d all be much better off!

#79 Ronaldo on 08.25.12 at 11:52 am

#69 – Spiltbongwater – and don’t forget

#11. Speed bumps in trailer park were not meant to knock the mud off your 4-wheeler.

#12. Speed limit not to exceed 50 mph in trailer park.

#80 FTP - First Time Poster on 08.25.12 at 11:53 am

If you want to witness the gullibility of people and the strength of herd mentality – watch this:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/friday-humor-infinite-human-stupidity

Funniest thing I’ve seen in a long time!

#81 Westernman on 08.25.12 at 11:56 am

Wrong @ # 15,
Nicely done Mr. Inbred – you just proved Garth’s point…

#82 AACI Home-dog on 08.25.12 at 12:03 pm

Newer ski hill…? must be Revelstoke, or possibly Golden. Heaven on earth in the Kootenays…but listing numbers are up in all areas. The ski hill condo market has been dead for nearly 2 years now…what sales there are have values off by about 33% !

#83 Old Man on 08.25.12 at 12:23 pm

#78 Mntrlr : The Province of Quebec is like having a mortgage that can never be discharged, and the time to have raced out of the gate was years ago, so stand back and watch the showdown, as it will never end good.

#84 Old Man on 08.25.12 at 12:45 pm

The last time was in Golden, B.C. was breaking my car going down this mountain on the Trans Canada Hwy. and guess who was waiting for me? A cop waved me over with his speed trap, and gave me a speeding ticket – just great!

#85 grantmi on 08.25.12 at 12:53 pm

Once again! Ozzie (I’ll jerkyouoff) is on Michael (Little brother to Gordon) Campbell’s CKNW show saying – “Oh! Look. property is SELLING!!!”

Yea! Now he’s talking about MULTI-MILLION dollar homes. Oh! They’re only 10 – 15% off their highs! BUT SEE!!! THEY’RE STILL SELLING! See RE is ok in the BPOE!!

Why Michael keeps this joker on his show I’ll never understand! (He must be a CKNW sponsor!)

I guess MC wasn’t knocking down your doors Garth to have you on his Saturday morning show, as long as he has this jackass on EVERY SINGLE Saturday show!

#86 Industrial Guy on 08.25.12 at 12:58 pm

Trailers or mobile homes have come a long way. Check this one out. It’s a 3 bedroom “double wide” MLS®: 1204520 For Sale: $46,000

Is it so bad? If you don’t need a basement, it doesn’t seem such a bad retirement property actually.

Just add wheels and move it anywhere.

#87 jess on 08.25.12 at 1:04 pm

28 KommyKim
i noticed that they have these words posted on their “vision” site TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WISH TO BE TREATED. –the ethic of reciprocity, is this explicit or implied ? Imagine a whole empathic community of partners!
====================
http://www.osc.gov.on.ca/en/13596.htm

catagories
http://www.blakes.com/bwc/html/article.asp?article=472

#88 Calgary Car Guy on 08.25.12 at 1:49 pm

Re #87 Industrial Guy’s comment on nice mobile homes. Yes that’s true OR just shop nice used diesel pushers stateside. There are some really good deals out there on units that are 10-15 years old but in cherry condition. I know of a nice top-of-the-line diesel pusher right now that was about 600,000 new that can be had for less than 60,000. Now that’s depreciation! Some are like rolling luxury condos. I shop them and large 5th wheels constantly. There is something like that in my future for sure. I have money set aside for just that purpose but as long as this sweet deal on my mobile home living holds out I’m just watching and waiting.

#89 Don on 08.25.12 at 1:54 pm

George:

Stay where you are my friend. Sounds like a great place to live, no traffic – beautiful outdoors worth it all. Besides you can place cheap rent, buy some property down the road and move the trailer onto it and build a house. Can’t wait till I can move back to a smaller community, hence why I am staying liquid. Besides I witnessed the house decline in the 80″s…stay put and enjoy the tranquility.

#90 jess on 08.25.12 at 2:18 pm

.#78 Mntrlr here
reminded me of a speech — the march of folly 1992
by allan taylor ceo royal bank

===

#91 Humpty Dumpty on 08.25.12 at 2:25 pm

It’s simple George… Steep and Deep!

Where else do you expect the economy to go…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65SH35IMzlI

Marc Faber discusses what opportunities are likely to emerge for institutional investors if sovereign debt continues. He assesses the possible impact of social and political unrest in North Africa and the Middle East, and how hedge funds can invest in emerging markets.

#92 Brad on 08.25.12 at 2:29 pm

#21 – bahahahaha. zing!

#93 renters rule on 08.25.12 at 2:36 pm

http://www.theprovince.com/business/Developer+Michael+Geller+says+city+should+losses/7142442/story.html

For the record, I think the Geller dude is dead on. Rennie I guess knows how stoopid the MSM “reporters” and editors are, not to mention your avg john and jane does who will not think for themselves……

Rennie is turning into a pathetic joke….one can only hope he has a significant position in multi residential RE investments in Van, and that at least he will go down with the others he has been conning…..

By the way Garth, unless I misunderstood what you were saying about re-selling assignments on pre-built condos (assignment meaning the “right” to buy a pasrticular unit at a particular price, in the future) — back before abour 2009, assignments traded freely and very publicly in Vancouver, on Craigslist and I believe that Rennie Marketing Systems also used to advertise them in the Van Sun, on the full page ads they used to take out, that also marketed actual units.

#94 bill on 08.25.12 at 2:43 pm

#89 Calgary Car Guy on 08.25.12 at 1:49 pm

yeah we have been looking for an older rv as well
I dont really care how old as long as it doesnt smell of mildew. there is one the perfect size just up the street but he is still asking a little too much.if its ‘mildew free’ he may have a sale…
I went across canada in my youth in an 67 ford econoline
and have long wanted to do that again.

#95 cynically on 08.25.12 at 2:49 pm

Re #27 posting – the pitiful part of it was that wrong was probably not satirizing Garth’s comment.

#96 TurnerNation on 08.25.12 at 2:54 pm

Beware, the Squamish Sasquatch!

(Is Kokanee really The Beer Out Here?)

They’ve been trying to flog these new condos at $250k plus, for years now.
How many are being held back, unlisted?

Squamish is now but a whistle stop on the ‘Sea of Tears’-to-Sky highway.

What’s there is downward creeping:

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12085362&PidKey=1411139750

DON’T HAVE A DOWN PAYMENT? NOW OFFERING 5% CASH BACK! NOWHERE in the Lower Mainland can you buy a brand new compact one bedroom home with all these advantages: prices under $200,000 including net HST, stylishly unique with an urban flare, great use of space, quality finishes include wood cabinets and granite counter tops in kitchen and bathroom and high ceilings, well built & energy efficient with minimal monthly Hydro costs range $15-30/month based on individual usage. JeldWen windows with screen, window coverings & insuite storage create comfortable living in a smaller space- store your mountain bike & outdoor gear in your own home, 6 appliances included. BC GOV 1ST TIME HOME BUYER BONUS PROGRAM APPLIES UP TO $10,000 CASH BACK!

#97 Tom from Mississauga on 08.25.12 at 2:58 pm

“Instead, let’s visit with some trailer park people, who apparently took a wrong turn and drove their F-150 directly into the side of this blog.”

OMG Garth, your killing me with this stuff. That was the hardest laugh I’d had all week!

#98 Snowboid on 08.25.12 at 3:02 pm

#54 Piccaso on 08.25.12 at 8:33 am…

You are joking, right? 120K a year and you choose to live like that? Are you a disciple of SM, and choose to appear broke?

Stayed in an Econolodge once, not by choice. There are reasons it is the second worse hotel chain in the US.

Things must be really bad in Dallas if professionals like nurses and engineers are living there!

#99 Tom from Mississauga on 08.25.12 at 3:03 pm

You know Garth, when you’re right you’re right.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-23/house-prices-rose-most-since-2005-in-second-quarter-fhfa.html

#100 live within your means on 08.25.12 at 3:16 pm

#67 Mntrlr here on 08.25.12 at 10:14 am

Currently living in Montreal for an assignment, and I must say we have a mega housing bubble that’s going to pop here, especially in the area I am renting in called The Plateau Area of Montreal.

………………..

Agree. Niece & her Fiance bought this spring – $306K. Considered a 3 bed, but it really isn’t. Found out she owes $17K LOC, etc. Isn’t working and has 2K in a mutual fund. Encouraged her to cash it in & pay down her bills, even tho it won’t be much. Tried to talk some sense into her – try to get out of debt slavery. Unfortunately, my older sis & her Mom sorta took offence to some comments I made as they are both in debt. Older sis is a shopaholic (sp?). Gives more stuff away than she keeps – stuff she’s never used. Younger sis & her hubby will have to sell their condo next yr., 2 yrs after they bought it, after selling their SF home due to financial problems. We said at the time they should have gone into a rental instead. But, her DH said ‘homes always increase, as did my niece. Not worth arguing with them as it would just cause family discord.

#101 TurnerNation on 08.25.12 at 3:29 pm

Is this wrong? Like a dog trying to mate with a cat (as was today’s original weblog picture)?

Ford F-150 Harley-Davidson edition.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2011-Ford-F-150-Harley-Davidson-W0QQAdIdZ407699588

#102 TurnerNation on 08.25.12 at 3:35 pm

I recently learned the secret of the Harley sound. Turns out the crankshaft pins are not offset at any angle! Wouldn’t this engine shake itself to pieces, leak oil, and develop a lower than normal power output??

#103 Herb on 08.25.12 at 3:39 pm

Here is good weekend reading about ideology on the Left and Right, with a special nod to Ayn Rand:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/roots+Ryan+ideology/7141836/story.html

I must admit that Robert Sibley lost me a few years ago when he became a robowriter for Right Wing issues. He really surprised me with this one.

#104 Mcexpat on 08.25.12 at 3:48 pm

#42 just like VP DM in C we are renters by choice in Calgary. We have close to a million in liquid assets and hubbie makes well into the six figures. We save more every month than most peoples’ mortgages
My hubbie is extremely financially savvy. In fact our monthly living is almost covered by proceeds from our investments. Please come to my door and tell him he is a loser for renting. What’s your liquid net worth these days?

#105 cynically on 08.25.12 at 3:54 pm

#72 Blue Monster, etc. – Are you serious when you claim government interference caused the Wall Street collapse and housing meltdown back in Bush’s “reign.” It was the lack of oversight due to the easing and dropping of laws which started under Clinton and continued with abandonment under Bush. Now the Republicans want them permanently off the books because the W S boys have learned their lesson the hard way, eg, Lehman and Bear Stearns. I personally believe capitalism is the better system if we want progress and development to continue but there has to be, unfortunately, checks and balances in place because it isn’t a perfect system and most importantly, some acknowledgement and help for those who fall between the cracks. Greed will always rear its ugly head under both systems of government – human nature I guess.

#106 cynically on 08.25.12 at 3:58 pm

#72 Piccaso – Yeah, your $120G a year. Good luck!

#107 truth hammer on 08.25.12 at 4:01 pm

‘Lower the price’….this is the same advice you could give to the entire Whistler, Victoria and Okanogan markets where sales have died on the vine and yet vendors have not lowered the prices signifigantly. Instead these same people seem to hope that the slide is a temporary respite on the ever accelerated climp to the moon that we have all feated on since the government dropped rates to zero in 2001.

I have seen this before…..sticky markets that take the bulldozer of reality to move the listings prices down to market. What will happen is that we will see the piling on of death, divorce, bankruptcy, corporate transfer etc etc etc begin to erode the price line. Right now, the vendors don’t get it….they never do ….but especially after the crazy generational run that we have seen in the markets since rates bottomed to save the day after the tech bubble crashed and Greenspan was an internationally accliamed genius……..but as we’ve found out…there is a price for all the cheap credit…and there will also be a social cost after eality sets in and die hard vendors who haven’t lowered asking prices for 5 years and remain steadfast in the market begin to die off with unsold properties for the executor of their wills to deal with.

Where we do hear the sphincters squeezing out melancholy refrains is in the valley where the ethnic builders who have as families borrowed more than they can ever pay back watch as their dozen townhouse projects see zero offers for the entire month of July and August. F killed the zero down market they fed on…..and so the sweet music of easy money in Canada turns into angry exchanges of gunfire in the Punjab over unpaid debts.

#108 cynically on 08.25.12 at 4:03 pm

#72 Blue Monster, etc. s/b #44. Sorry.

#109 Patientl Waiting on 08.25.12 at 4:27 pm

While there are still a few high end sales to HAM, they are few and far between. The price correction is well underway in White Rock, BC. Here is a link to 146 price reductions for anyone interested. If anyone has a request for a list of price reductions in their hood (in the lower mainland) let me know and I will provide.

PW
http://mlslink.mlxchange.com/DotNet/Pub/EmailView.aspx?r=929934907&s=BRC&t=BRC

#110 maxx on 08.25.12 at 5:03 pm

#44 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:18 am

“Isn’t capitalism fun?
—-
No, capitalism is not fun, it’s hard work in free markets…..

So lets get these government idiots out of economics”

Agree 100%. However, I also believe that it could be too late. Government, like nearly every enterprise, is committed to and migrating towards the wholesale financialization of anything and everything. Legions of public airheads, devoid of what should be legal minimum common sense, toil away at intervening in, mediating, optimizing, enhancing, prognosticating and “just in timing” government “services”, the goal of which is to shrug off the true and noble mantle of government responsibility, which is to protect its public and property. Period.
Today, their mitts are also stuck firmly in both money manipulation and markets, the result of which has proven catastrophic.
No wonder so many people and corporations sit on their cash. They have, to a huge extent, lost faith in so-called “free” markets.
Interest rates are constantly being manipulated for no reason other than to “enhance” the economy through fully predictable social engineering. This protects neither the economy, people, nor property.

#111 wrong on 08.25.12 at 5:11 pm

#41 Dirk The Daring on 08.25.12 at 3:17 am

Actually I’m from North Toronto.

#112 Devore on 08.25.12 at 5:13 pm

#50 Mr Buyer

I think the point here is that the rents are crazy high as well as the house prices but they will go down along with house prices. They did in Japan when their bubble collapsed.

Rents are not “crazy high”. They may be a bit higher compared to other locations with similar incomes and demographics, but so would house prices. That’s just supply and demand. It’s not “crazy high”. And rents are “crazy cheap” compared to owning.

Rents will drop with real estate prices, for many reasons already described here in days and months previous; supply of rentals will go up faster than the demand for them, and lower house prices mean lower rents will provide the same yield, so investors will accept lower rents.

#113 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:22 pm

They can happen simultaneously, as now and as in the US for the past five years. — Garth
—–
Garth, you can put air in a tire or take air out of the tire, you can’t do both at the same time to the same tire.

Now, which tires get air and which ones don’t cause some prices to rise and others to fall or stay the same but that’s a separate issue to whether or not, on net, tires are being inflated, deflated, or the same.

So if each sector of the economy is a tire and the government promotes the inflation of some tires but not of other tires then those tires get a lot of air (debt) while others don’t.

What happens now when the prices fall is the air moves to other tires, it’s only deflated if the loans are paid by productive activity. When the bailouts come the money will just be moved around via expenses on bank’s balance sheets and injections by the BofC and CMHC or more government debt.

But it’s inflation or deflation on balance or the net. Prices of individual classes is very complex and monetary inflation or deflation is only one factor of many.

You confuse prices and asset values. A common mistake. — Garth

#114 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.25.12 at 5:46 pm

#71 Daisy Mae on 08.25.12 at 10:30 am

#43 BLUE MONSTER: “You have to pick one, inflation or deflation, sorry you can’t have both at the same time.”

***************

Why?

INFLATION is a rise in the general level of prices for goods and services.

DELATION means hard assets (real estate) are worth less causing consumers to question purchases.

We consumers are cutting back on both….

The terms Inflation and deflation with respect to the supply of money is one issue. A second issue is how the money and credit that exists is moving in the economy.

Low interest rates encourage borrowing and increase in money and credit. High interest rates encourage saving and debt repayment and hence deflationary forces.

Prices of things are just that, prices, rising or falling prices have many factors of which only one is whether the money supply is increasing, decreasing or staying the same.

So the correct terminology of what Garth is saying is that house prices are falling with prices for almost everything else is rising and I’m saying fine, this can happen with a fixed amount of money in the system. The same price movements can also still happen during inflation of the money supply or deflation of the money supply. They are two separate issues yet the first, inflation is a factor of the second, prices of stuff.

#115 Devore on 08.25.12 at 5:52 pm

#54 Piccaso

I was pretty shocked when I read about this phenomenon the first time. That real estate is so shunned, not only is it cheaper to own than rent, it is cheaper to live in a hotel (well, motel) than to rent, which many people who lost their homes and cannot afford rent do.

#116 bill on 08.25.12 at 6:00 pm

#103 TurnerNation on 08.25.12 at 3:35 pm
not necessarily.
first Harley-Davidson engines are quite modern in the in the sense of latest techniques for engine manufacture.
maybe not cutting edge but they are oil tight and have been since the v2 engine.
Harley’s are modern engines that have their roots in the past. it is a major selling point even.
once upon a time virtually all roads in north america outside of the cities were dirt.
the wide tire and unique firing order gave very good control in these conditions and the apparent lack of brakes enabled strong braking on a gravel road with out locking up. vintage jeeps have a similar philosophy.
the ‘potato -potato’ sound is also influenced by the single carb and relatively long intake track .
sometimes the fuel mixture gets a little confused on the way to the combustion chamber and this can result in a ‘miss’ which is audible. it didnt misfire though there just wasnt enough fuel mixture to light properly.
when harley’s go flat tracking they adjust many parameters to achieve their enviable record in racing on dirt ovals and thats why the 750 flatracker has a very different sound. it is also an engine that was designed to race from the drawing board.
kevin camerons ‘s sportbike performance handbook has a wealth of info on getting the max out of ANY bike.

#117 jess on 08.25.12 at 6:40 pm

hard work in free markets…..that seems to benefit from the tax system

…”Big business is doing fine in many places,” Romney said during a campaign fundraiser Thursday. “They get the loans they need, they can deal with all the regulation. They know how to find ways to get through the tax code, save money by putting various things in the places where there are low tax havens around the world for their businesses.”
===========

Bishops Central Storehouse in Salt Lake City — more than 500,000 square feet of food and supplies under one roof, enough to support a year’s worth of Mormon welfare efforts.
Welfare Square, where they process Mormon milk, cheese and honey as part of his portrait of what he calls “the Mormon industrial complex.”

but doesn’t that crowd out the free enterprise

#118 Junius on 08.25.12 at 6:43 pm

#114 Blue Monster,

You have to stop reading all this neandercon and ramdroid nonsense. Firstly, your dogmatic belief in the wisdom of unfettered free markets flies in the face of the reality that this was the cause of the financial collapse. Even Alan Greenspan got this.

Secondly, if your bankrupt ideology cannot account for asset prices falling at the same time as other costs increase maybe it is time for a new theory.

Or just stay cling to illusions as you have done for these many months.

#119 Junius on 08.25.12 at 6:49 pm

#111 Maxx,

What you and Blue Monster miss is that impedent to competitive markets is not government but the corporations that control the government. They have no interest in a competitive economy but they do love a so called free market which allows them to keep gaming the system. They depend in stooges like you to call out for less government regulation in order to ensure they can keep their monopolies strong.

#120 Junius on 08.25.12 at 6:59 pm

#106 cynically,

The Liberatarian Right must believe that Government regulation caused the crash or their entire theory crashes. The core belief is that markets will self regulate which is a core tenet that cannot be broken.

Of course, we now recognize that the opposite is true and unfettered markets quickly become unstable and collapse as economists like Minsky predicted. However instead of reviewing their philosophy they are doubling down on it with a religious fervor. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous for all of us.

#121 renters rule on 08.25.12 at 6:59 pm

@#110 Patiently Waiting

Do you have any price reduction info for the West End?

Thanks in advance! ;-)

I wouldn’t get into the WE market until the price gets closer to $300/sq ft …. or lower, depending on the condition of the unit and the building(s) and overall financial strength (i.e., B/S) of the strata corp…..

#122 renters rule on 08.25.12 at 7:09 pm

@#110 Patiently Waiting

I would be most interested in all apartments West of Denman, and after that my criteria would be 2BR or 3BR in the broader WE area.

Thanks, if you are able to provide that would be great!

#123 wrong on 08.25.12 at 7:20 pm

#41 Dirk The Daring on 08.25.12 at 3:17 am

Actually I live in North Toronto. No mountains here!

#124 Bottoms_Up on 08.25.12 at 7:51 pm

#78 Mntrlr here on 08.25.12 at 11:35 am
———————————————-
that question about the dollar was asked of C. He actually laughed. And said ‘no’.

#125 bill on 08.25.12 at 7:56 pm

idle hands are the devils workshop…

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question325.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrWmGOiszbY&feature=related

and one with a cam. this one is a beast for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHIUgDn9KrU&feature=related

#126 truth hammer on 08.25.12 at 8:22 pm

ZIRP is killing the Canadian pension plans of public entities…..so the question is….when the public pensions fall so far behind that they throw them under the bus as unfunded liabilities….who will come up with the shortfall……will the taxpayer have top pay a second time for the losses of the elite deifned benefit plans that onlt serve the civil service?

http://sprott.com/markets-at-a-glance/nirp-the-financial-system’s-death-knell/

Now that NIRP has taken the place of intelligent investing…we are assured that all public pensions will fail. Once the elite unions get a grip on this…they will undoubetedly attack the taxpayer with strikes and lobbies to gouge more out of the taxpayer because the elitists haven’t been smart enough to earn theri own money.

Bad times ahead unless civil service unions are disbanded now.

#127 truth hammer on 08.25.12 at 8:32 pm

Now this is interesting !!

“Gold Glitters Anew…But….

If you’ve been wondering why gold hasn’t fallen into a deflationary funk, the answer is becoming clear, although in slow-motion. Not only are several international banking groups giving gold new respect but now the republican party convention may adopt a platform which would call for an audit of the Fed and reasserting a link between the dollar and gold.

One reason for the surge in gold prices this week: The Fed is sounding in the FOMC minutes like they are open to another quantitative easing of the money supply. In other words, they are likely to print more money – and this watering down of paper money’s purchasing power is what makes it seem like prices are going up.

The truth – and not very well taught in politically-correct schooling these days – is that prices don’t really go up – so much as there’s just more and more paper chasing the same goods and services so it takes more paper.

How much more paper? Well, since the Fed got into the business of renting America its paper money, back in 1913, what used to cost $1-dollar now costs $23.52. Which is why in 1913 a steak dinner was $1 and today it’s about $23-$24 for the same thing.

Plain as I can tell you: A dollar is only worth 4.2517 percent of what it was in 1913. Almost 96% of its purchasing power has been watered down by too many paper dollars floating around. But without that kind of accounting, what government services would you like to do without…since that’s largely made possible by deficit spending and the fine art of “making up money.”

Not that inflation is bad, mind you: Properly used it’s a great social escalator since it allows regular people to (in effect) bet with the house when buying real estate in inflationary times for 10- or 20-percent down. But, as millions learned in the Housing Bust of 2008-present, when the tables turn and deflation comes along, things get painful in a hurry as leverage cuts both ways leaving many “upside down” in their home mortgages.

Is linking to gold the answer? Maybe – but maybe not. Should annual debasing of the money supply be publicly announced and stable fiscal policy – not subject to political winds and banker whims? You bet.

Systemic inflation has averaged about 3.24% per year since the Fed came along.

But they don’t hold up big signs saying “Don’t get into high leverage here because we’re going to actually shrink effective money supply for a while.” As a result, regular people suffer real fiscal harm and some linkage to gold would make the print or hoard activities of the banker class a little more apparent and easier to follow that Q.E. gibberish and FedSpeak messages.

If you get some time, you might want to read up on the inflation-adjusted housing price work of Robert Shiller (and Karl Case with contributions from Allan Weiss) since the new Case-Shiller/S&P Housing Index numbers will come out next week.

Basically what their work showed was that over the past hundred years, or so, on an inflation-adjusted basis housing prices haven’t changed much – with the exception of the 2000-2008 percent where we had an unprecedented run-up in prices.

What goes up is still coming down…and if there is one concern to be had about the re-tying of gold to paper money it is that this was the kind of thing that led to gold and silver confiscation in the last Depression. But then, you knew that, right? Executive Order 6102.

In the New Depression the issue is more interesting: Hoarding of cash and equivalents in dead pools of capital…ought to be fun to see how government tries to get the One Percent to put some of their dough back into circulation or whether, like the 1930’s, there’ll be another attempt to screw the little guy. My, would that be a surprise?”

There will be no depression. Rocks won’t be money, but money rocks. — Garth

#128 prairieperson on 08.25.12 at 8:36 pm

Just came back from Salt Spring Island. Heard that prices have already dropped 22% but there seems little evidence of it. A large number of over 1 million dollar houses. Up to 7 million. The hippies of yesteryear have been displaced by rich Americans. At least that’s the explanation. There was only one ad that said, “Priced below assessment.” I thought there would be a forest of for sale signs but there aren’t. However the MLS booklet is thicker than usual. Not many pictures with SOLD plastered over them. I thought the Americans would leave in 2008 but they didn’t. There doesn’t seem to be any rush to sell even now. How do I get the number of listings to the number of sales by the month?

#129 John on 08.25.12 at 8:49 pm

We might want to ask ourselves about how we got here. What kind of thinking are we doing? The compulsive credit-debt run up is one kind of thinking, moderate behaviour might be another.

Here’s an excellent 10+ minute animated work about that very topic…done by RSA Animate. We might want to consider what the brain is doing in today’s world. How we see ourselves, others, reality, finance and everything around and in us. High quality presentation and truly creative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

#130 Ralph Cramdown on 08.25.12 at 8:52 pm

I have a real question though. This 70% of Canadian home ownership, isn’t that a good thing? How much of the remaining 30% is actually doing it by choice?

Probably not too many, but I’m renting and could pay cash for the median home in my city.

To my mind, the more interesting question is what fraction of, say, the bottom 5% of the 70% who are owers are one paycheque away from not making the mortgage, or have a negative net worth making them fair candidates for bankruptcy. If almost nobody who doesn’t own can afford to, we’ve run out of buyers save those we can freshly mint.

#131 The American on 08.25.12 at 8:57 pm

At #58: Oasis, aka BPOE, you can have both inflation and deflation at the same time within the same economy. Housing (asset) values have deflated in the U.S. while at the same time commodity prices in the U.S. have inflated, food has inflated. Yes, both can happen at the same time.

BTW, I visited Vancouver this past week. Very interesting. Several listing (and I mean an immense amount of listings) on the market in such a little town with price drop after price drop after price drop. At the converted B&B in which we were staying on Comox Street (a street of incredibly ugly, grungy towers mixed with some older, more historic homes) the conversation became quite intense and interesting. The B&B itself has been listed for over a year, starting at $3.9MM. Not a single bite. The price was dropped to $3.4MM. One offer is now in at $2.8MM, and the potential new owners plan on converting the B&B back to a residence. However, they expect the initial offer to drop considerably after this coming Monday when the inspection is to be completed and several items of concern with the property will be unveiled.

Anyway, back to the conversation that transpired around the breakfast table. Each and every person sitting there were in complete agreement the Canadian real estate market is changing in a big way, and it will not end well. For the record, the two of us were the only Americans at the table, and we listened (for the most part). All others were Canadians, coming from as far away as Toronto. One couple, a CFO for a shipping company and his wife, are predicting at least a 50% correction in Vancouver. Hmmmm. I think he is very smart and in tune with reality.

By the way, what’s up with all the condo towers in downtown Vancouver at night? Clearly nobody is occupying at least 70% of them. You can walk around in any area in downtown Vancouver in the early or late evening, and you are hard-pressed to see lights on in most of the units. This pales in comparison with other similar cities. The streets were incredibly quiet and the “night life” was more like a trickle of people. It felt eery. For anyone who believes Yaletown or Gas Town has a bustling night life, I encourage you to get out and travel little more often.

#132 Herb on 08.25.12 at 9:07 pm

#126 Truth Hammerer,

put a sock in it! You should read the link at my #104 too, if you are still capable of intelligent reading.

#133 };-) aka DA on 08.25.12 at 9:07 pm

#49 Form Man yesterday

DELETED

#134 jimmypage on 08.25.12 at 9:41 pm

#120

Are you trying to imply that the American housing market crashed because of a lack of regulation?

#135 Canadian Watchdog on 08.25.12 at 10:44 pm

#42 Buy? Curious? #129 Ralph Cramdown

“This 70% of Canadian home ownership, isn’t that a good thing? How much of the remaining 30% is actually doing it by choice?”

Not many at all. The bulk of renters who dreamed of buying a home did so starting in 1996. Chart. More upcoming 2011 census data will reveal who’s really left in the market.

There’s nobody left to sell homes to.

#136 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.25.12 at 10:49 pm


It appears NAmerica’s police forces are degenerating into this and Mass Murders or FFs? To bring in gun control.
*
44:33 clip An Inconvenient Death of the western middle class; Sneaky Snaky “There is a sneaky way plan! Greece defaults, but since it is only “temporary”, Wall Street doesn’t have to pay off those credit default swaps they sold on Greece and Europe debt!” wrh.com; China’s Unsold Goods Sound familiar? Plus Russia’s end the fed movement gaining traction; NWT Let the good times roll; Oz Things happening Down Under; John Mauldin Boomers and other links; BoA Sensational heading or real? If real, this would go with the link about Dennis Gartman dumping all his stocks; US Job Market Sucks to be a college grad.; Italy Cash for gold shops quadruple; Mayor Mike Bloomberg Most politicos are simply unclear on the concept, while others are beyond stupid.
*
Fukushima — 1:02 clip “This increase confirms the report from the Japanese nuclear expert that at least one reactor at Fukushima did drop its fuel through containment and through the concrete floor into the ground, and is now leaching out into the Pacific through the sea floor.” wrh.com, Hanford Just about everything is breaking down, might as well include this and Risking Nuke Armageddon RE and the fiscal downturn ain’t gonna matter much; WW2 Pic The world hears only one side of the war. The pic and words give another view; Siemens “Like Stuxnet might have done at Fukushima?” wrh.com; Venezuela Very convenient that Vene. has the largest proven oil deposits in the world; 13.34 clip 55. Delete Facebook; SArabia welcomes (?) the Arab Spring, as it seems once Syria and SArabia are destroyed, the west has a clear path to Iran, and Syria The other side of the coin; Empire State shootings Nine bystanders were all shot by police; Natural GMO foods? Monsanto is not normal, and Consumers stabbed in back; Drought in the US, month’s worth of rain in a day in UK — that’s CC.

#137 Canadian Watchdog on 08.25.12 at 10:56 pm

Sorry one chart wasn’t labeled properly: Reposted.

#42 Buy? Curious? #129 Ralph Cramdown

“This 70% of Canadian home ownership, isn’t that a good thing? How much of the remaining 30% is actually doing it by choice?”

Not many at all. The bulk of renters who dreamed of buying a home did so starting in 1996. Chart. More upcoming 2011 census data will reveal who’s really left in the market.

There’s nobody left to sell homes to.

#138 Derek R on 08.25.12 at 11:08 pm

Garth wrote:
…that I spent a good chunk of my week in, fighting off babes.

That’s where a decent Amazon troop comes in handy. Scares off all but the Amazon babes. Which are of course exactly the type of babe you want to recruit.

Have you been travelling without yours again?

#139 Baron von Munchouses on 08.25.12 at 11:21 pm

54 Piccaso on 08.25.12 at 8:33 am

Dude, you live in a motel.

If you’re going to brag about that, at least refer to it as a motor inn.

#140 Canadian Watchdog on 08.25.12 at 11:28 pm

And confirmed… Future MLS pre-sales being listed and booked into Van’s average price.

#141 Baron von Munchouses on 08.25.12 at 11:37 pm

#130 The American on 08.25.12 at 8:57 pm

No summer night life in Kits either these days. I jog by 4th to the beach every evening and patios are quiet (and you know these are the only 3 weeks of the entire year that it’s warm enough for evening patio time). Ran right by the new Bimini’s around 1030pm last night: just a lonely bouncer and a guy sleeping outside the Sally Ann on the corner.

#142 $$$BPOE#1 on 08.26.12 at 12:23 am

Ozzie deals with FACTS. So does the brain trust of Tsur Sommerville and Bob Rennie. They do not speculate on absurd notions of price drops. Ozzie made thousands of people rich. That’s why we love him. Everything selling like hotcakes. Never looked better
********************************************
grantmi on 08.25.12 at 12:53 pm
Once again! Ozzie (I’ll jerkyouoff) is on Michael (Little brother to Gordon) Campbell’s CKNW show saying – “Oh! Look. property is SELLING!!!”

Yea! Now he’s talking about MULTI-MILLION dollar homes. Oh! They’re only 10 – 15% off their highs! BUT SEE!!! THEY’RE STILL SELLING! See RE is ok in the BPOE!!

Why Michael keeps this joker on his show I’ll never understand! (He must be a CKNW sponsor!)

I guess MC wasn’t knocking down your doors Garth to have you on his Saturday morning show, as long as he has this jackass on EVERY SINGLE Saturday show!
.

#143 $$$BPOE#1 on 08.26.12 at 12:29 am

Little evidence of it is right. Price drops are nothing more than propoganda and scare tactics. Salt Spring Island is THEE GO TO PLACE for Americans in the know. Has been for quite some time now. Folks, I’ve been banging the table here. It’s not about Asia like I’ve said a million times. It’s about the world It’s about the creme de la creme wanting to buy up Heaven (yes it does exist). Americans bought up SaltSpring and brought the locals to their knees. Thats just the way it goes.

****************************************
prairieperson on 08.25.12 at 8:36 pm
Just came back from Salt Spring Island. Heard that prices have already dropped 22% but there seems little evidence of it. A large number of over 1 million dollar houses. Up to 7 million. The hippies of yesteryear have been displaced by rich Americans. At least that’s the explanation. There was only one ad that said, “Priced below assessment.” I thought there would be a forest of for sale signs but there aren’t. However the MLS booklet is thicker than usual. Not many pictures with SOLD plastered over them. I thought the Americans would leave in 2008 but they didn’t. There doesn’t seem to be any rush to sell even now. How do I get the number of listings to the number of sales by the month?
.

#144 spaceman on 08.26.12 at 12:57 am

I lived in a mobile in Williams Lake for 4 years, what a mistake, thing was a POS. I lost 2 grand when I sold it to move to Victoria, but because I had equity in it, put 2000 in my pocket.

If the market plummets the 15% that Garth is predicting, so what, do the math. You are down $15K on paper only. I just spent $9500 on carpet alone, and the roof is due, at about $6000. If you like living there, then live there and make the payments. Its a place to live, thats it, you will never make money on it. But you will be mortgage free one day, and have equity in the mobile. Plus you can tow it into the woods when the shit hits the fan…

#145 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 1:02 am

#98 Snowboid on 08.25.12 at 3:02 pm

Canada is still in the maximum debt, gotta look good stage. lol

Those days are gone down here.

#146 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 1:04 am

#114 Devore on 08.25.12 at 5:52 pm

Can you rent for $700 a month in Canada?

#147 realtors are in a panic on 08.26.12 at 1:06 am

Condo sales and prices are crashing hard in Toronto. Realtors and bankers are in an all out panic . The house of cards is crashing down like the glass balconies of condos built in downtown Toronto. It’s going to be a nasty crash realtors a nasty crash.

#148 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 1:44 am

Hey all you disbelievers back home in Canada, you ask why I pay $700 a month to stay in an extended stay motel when I make 120G a year.

I could pay $650 a month to rent a 1 bdr condo here, less then a mile from work and it would blow you away how flashy it is.

http://www.pinnacleridgeapts.com/

but then I would have to sign a 6 month or 1 year lease, buy/rent furniture, pay for utilities, pay for 100 channels of satelite TV, pay for wireless internet, etc

Why the fuk would I or other professionals want to do that when we got it all here paying a weekly rent. Granted it isn’t as flashy… big deal, who gives a sh it!

Oh I forgot, back in Canada it’s still all about show and you will pay an absurd amount to keep that show up.

LMFAO

#149 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 2:39 am

Then again I could buy a 1,800 sq ft bungalow with dble front attached garage for 120G… but why would I want to live out in suburbia?

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5735-Goldfinch-Way_Dallas_TX_75249_M77767-75683

It ain’t going up in price!! Kinda the way Canada is headed now, you catch my drift?

#150 Jane24 on 08.26.12 at 3:41 am

So what is wrong with mobile homes? Cheap living.

Our current fav retirement scheme is to keep the palazzo in Southern Italy for summers, get a 2 bed mobile home or what we call a static caravan on the sea in the South of England for the Spring and Fall months and get somewhere cheap in Spain for the Winter months.

All in the three homes will cost about $275,000 Cdn together and yes we have the required one million to retire on.

We can home swap any of them for other houses in the world to cut down on travel bills too. We currently have two swaps outstanding on our Italian house, a flat in Barcelona and a villa with pool in Bulgaria which we hope to get too next year. The Italian palazzo cost us nothing to run as so many friends and family want to holiday there and throw some pennies into the expenses pot and we could do the same thing with the new place in Spain.

One important point is health insurance of course but in our case the UK NHS system covers us for the EU too. Canadians would have to think on this but you know in many EU countries just paying for medical care out of your pocket is cheap, nothing like USA costs.

The point of retirement is to be flexible and you have no need for a 4 bed family home, just ties you down and costs too much to maintain especially in a Canadian Winter.. It just becomes a big expensive box to store your stuff in. Don’t worry about missing your kids because if you live somewhere they want to visit believe they will be there to see you.

Canadians need to travel more and see just how cheap housing and living is in the rest of the world. Be flexible in your thinking as well to secure your dreams.

So yeah for mobile homes. They can be a key fixture in a more exciting and fulfilling life.

#151 CoreyMc on 08.26.12 at 4:23 am

Just tried to explain to my mother in Arizona today about economics in Aberta, bad idea. It’s different there! OMFG. Help! They are completly F#cked. Aparrently buy what ever you want and oil and gas is going to give you everthing. I am the only one that thinks differently in this Province!

#152 cofessions of a real estate bear on 08.26.12 at 7:23 am

Resond to junius. The real problem is that government and central banks while trying to stop small collapses along the way have created a all or none situation. It is true that some people would be hurt by the greedy in a true free market. It is also true that atruly free market would realize mistaskes more quickly and clear bad debt more often, thus woud be more inherently stable.

#153 yorel on 08.26.12 at 7:58 am

When you lose, it’s the government. When you win, it’s your financial genius.

#154 Mark on 08.26.12 at 8:28 am

There will be no depression. Rocks won’t be money, but money rocks. — Garth

Garth, I don’t know how you can be so certain of this. The anemic “growth” bought by trillions in deficit spending in the west must surely be a sign something is wrong.

For too long we’ve had it easy, boomers and cheap oil meant growth. Cheap oil is finished, and the boomers are rapidly entering their most expensive years, having promised themselves a slew of entitlements their kids and grandkids can’t afford to give them.

Everywhere you look the problem is insolvency. Households, governments and many corporations, including the big US banks are bankrupt.

A couple of months ago you were touting all of the positive numbers coming out of the US. They’ve all turned negative, more stimulus is coming, and more will follow. Why stimulate if there’s growth? Why ZIRP if the economy is turning around?

In 1930 they didn’t know they were in the Great Depression either. The second one is here now, Great Depression 2.

If you think this is a depression, you must be under 30. — Garth

#155 drydock on 08.26.12 at 8:49 am

#77
Here you go brother everything you need to know about your new city and province.
Also invaluable for Montreal wannabee’s.
As the saying goes “forewarned is forearmed”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLD04A803032610704&v=8qfFHAcKj0c&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoYB5oJ4Hs&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHzulyGX8xc&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o72vnaLpQI&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzkQKk9fI3c&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0chxDEyQsBw&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZffPoHGLUTg&feature=player_detailpage

#156 Risk Analyst on 08.26.12 at 9:00 am

My girlfriend and I have both sold our homes recently and are now looking to rent something together in Toronto. I cannot believe after reading this blog for months how tight the rental market is. Every viewing we book has a hundred other people viewing the same property and it is usually gone by the time we arrive. We are seriously considering crashing at a parents basement untill the correction arrives.

#157 Old Man on 08.26.12 at 9:01 am

#152 We are all losers with our new fascist government in Canada. It has become a three ring circus when he calls in the clowns; next he will do a dog and pony show while playing his reformed piano in parliament called, “Trust Me Forever.”

#158 I am disappoint on 08.26.12 at 9:11 am

I just found last night that a married couple who I’m close friends with have just put an offer in on a house. We live in Winnipeg, and they’re paying $260,000 (plus fees/taxes/etc) for a 1200 sq ft house built in 1983 in the St. Vital area of the city. I’d warned my friends for almost a year now not to buy because of the looming price drop coming in housing, but I guess they just wanted a house that badly. The irony here, too, is that they underbid the asking price, and put a house inspection as a condition on the purchase. Direct evidence that the market is cooling, and how.

What’s amazing about the pervasiveness of house horniness is that my other friends insisted I was jealous because I told them not to buy! I tried my best to be happy for my friends but it’s kind of like watching a puppy, tail wagging every which way, walk into a lion’s den.

#159 24 year old on 08.26.12 at 9:26 am

Hey Garth, now that you’re blog is gaining steam, could you call for lowered immigration?

I don’t have to explain the benefits of that, a man of your wit can probably list a dozen more reasons than myself.

#160 live within your means on 08.26.12 at 9:26 am

#147 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 1:44 am

When DH & I go to the US or Europe we try to stay in inexpensive motels. It’s just a place to sleep for a night, have a shower in the am, & they usually include a continental type of breakfast.

#161 John on 08.26.12 at 9:48 am

Jane 24 wrote:

“Our current fav retirement scheme is to keep the palazzo in Southern Italy for summers, get a 2 bed mobile home or what we call a static caravan on the sea in the South of England for the Spring and Fall months and get somewhere cheap in Spain for the Winter months.

All in the three homes will cost about $275,000 Cdn together and yes we have the required one million to retire on.”

As can be seen by the above, community, connection, leadership, giving back, building and value are of little importance in Canadian culture.

The “money” amount referred to by the isolation planner was “earned” accidentally on a demographic bulge run up. It’s just a casino win. The playng field in the casino was all about timing. An exact copy of this scenario cannot be repeated today.

Additionally, the entitlement madness is so complete, that truly uncertain places like Spain and England will “hold off” their accumulating serious social problems and unrest to “accomodate” muppetry.

An extremely myopic post, disconnected from reality. Which is of course the main goal.

#162 Junius on 08.26.12 at 9:56 am

#151 Confrssions,

You confuse a free market with a competitive market. The banks in the US were bailed out because their market is more free than almost all others thereby allowing them to buy the government. They gambled, failed and were bailed out.

The Canadian system is more competitive because it restricts activities which is why it did not fail at the US level. If our bankers had got their way and made it more free we would have suffered the same fate.

I agree with your premise which is that businesses should be accountable and if they fail they fail. However I do not a agree that freer markets makes this so. The more unfettered the markets the more likely the public trough will end up serving corporate interests to protect and sustain monopolies. This is the history of economics for hundreds if not thousands of years.

We should seek competitive economics that keeps business working towards the public good. That is something different altogether from unregulated and unfettered markets,

#163 Junius on 08.26.12 at 10:09 am

#125 Hammerhead,

You said, “Bad times ahead unless civil service unions are disbanded now.”

Well, there it is. The only solution along with tax cuts to the rich and cuts in entitlement programs offered by the neandercons. At least you are consistent.

This is a massive smoke screen. Get people to blame the fact that there wages aren’t going up on public sector unions so you can demolish them as well. Then everyone will be serfs under the new neo feudalism of our corporate overlords.

Let’s pay our police minimum wage. I am sure that would lead to any corruption or other problems. Let’s hire teachers at McDonald’s wages because our kids don’t need to learn because you have already figured everything out.

#164 dd on 08.26.12 at 10:09 am

Dont bet against the US. LOL!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/us-annual-income-recovery-recession_n_1828127.html?utm_hp_ref=business

#165 Daisy Mae on 08.26.12 at 10:24 am

#112 BLUE MONSTER: “Garth, you can put air in a tire or take air out of the tire, you can’t do both at the same time to the same tire.”

*****************

We are not talking about doing anything to the same ‘tire’. We’re talking about goods/services…as opposed to hard assets such as real estate.

#166 Herb on 08.26.12 at 10:26 am

#151 Cofessions of a eal estate bear,

your faith in fundamental capitalism is touching. Unfortunately, your “true free market” is as real as the Kingdom of Heaven, which has not been seen in this world either.

Come to think of it, I’d put more hope in the Kingdom of Heaven. At least that wouldn’t be a “me-first” free-for-all.

#167 maxx on 08.26.12 at 10:27 am

#118 Junius on 08.25.12 at 6:49 pm

You may want to bone up on your reading and comprehension skills….
There is a huge difference between government regulation (usually good) and government meddling (sometimes and in this case, most definitely bad).

#168 Baron von Munchouses on 08.26.12 at 10:48 am

#147 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 1:44 am

Sounds like a good choice for you. Nicely done.

On the other hand, some of us are reluctant to live in a country with (1) a totally dysfunctional mental health system and (2) easy access to automatic weapons.

#169 Alberta Ed on 08.26.12 at 10:53 am

Jane24: “One important point is health insurance of course but in our case the UK NHS system covers us for the EU too. Canadians would have to think on this but you know in many EU countries just paying for medical care out of your pocket is cheap, nothing like USA costs.”

Imagine the implications if Canadians could enjoy the same health coverage in the US.

#170 Dan from Richmond Hill on 08.26.12 at 11:08 am

#148 Piccaso

USA versus Canada:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5735-Goldfinch-Way_Dallas_TX_75249_M77767-75683

http://www.homefinder.ca/listings/411547-8-brightway-cres-richmond-hill-ontario-n2436811

Please also note the difference in taxes and how old the houses are.

What would you buy ?

#171 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.26.12 at 11:09 am

@ #142 BPOE#1
Well good to see the delusional rantings of verbal diarrhea are still spewing forth from our “favorite” real estate pumper.
So now its Salt Spring Island thats the Best Place on Erf eh BP?
What happened to Richmond? What happened to Vancouver? Crickets got your tongue?
I was playing golf yesterday and noticed a dead crow on the fairway. I should have packed it up, salted it and mailed it to you.
Time to bump the stereo BPOE, the CD is skipping and playing the same song over and over and over……

#172 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 11:22 am

Isn’t capitalism fun?

No, it’s not fun, having my 20’s and youth wasted away in a housing bubble wasn’t fun at all. I don’t care what discounts I would get around age 40. Sorry, I would rather have socialism than these wild booms and busts. I would take affordable housing in my 20’s over cheap housing in my 40’s anyday. Who cares if I make more money just before I die? The housing bubble took away my 20’s and I want it back – but there are some things money can’t buy. . .

#173 What are you talking about Realtor? on 08.26.12 at 11:38 am

Risk Analyst on 08.26.12 at 9:00 am My girlfriend and I have both sold our homes recently and are now looking to rent something together in Toronto. I cannot believe after reading this blog for months how tight the rental market is. Every viewing we book has a hundred other people viewing the same property and it is usually gone by the time we arrive. We are seriously considering crashing at a parents basement untill the correction arrives.
———————————————————-

Either you are an idiot or a realtor cause in Toronto you have THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of empty houses , condos and apartments. Go on view it or MLS or kijiji and or just drive around the city and see countless for rent or lease signs. You can so easily pick and choose an EMPTY rental property. In fact you can easily request a lower price as landlords will bend for “good” tenants.

#174 Old Man on 08.26.12 at 11:44 am

I wonder if Canada has any mining operations, oh forgot, that our leader just spent a week up in the Arctic for photo opps, and smiles with this great idea of expanding our natural resources. Aussieland is going down the tubes with mining going bankrupt, as commodity prices fall with little demand, and Real Estate values are falling, but it is different in Canada.

#175 Mark on 08.26.12 at 11:49 am

If you think this is a depression, you must be under 30. — Garth

I’m 34 Garth.

You dismissed everything in my post, so simple question time for you and the blog dogs; What fuels growth going forward, say over the next two decades?

Oh, and my grandfather says gold is money and that anyone who thinks otherwise must be under 60.

The economy will grow incrementally going forward, as it is now. Canadian corporations alone are sitting on $526 billion in cash, and profitability has been just peachy. This will translate into jobs over the coming few years, so you should expect glacial but steady improvement, replete with more employment, inflation, higher interest rates and flatlining or declining hard asset values (including gold and real estate). Depression? Feel free to wallow in one if you wish, but the economy will do just fine. — Garth

#176 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 11:57 am

#169 Dan from Richmond Hill on 08.26.12 at 11:08 am

I’m here because of the work. Yes it pays well and the cost of living is cheap which is an added bonus.

Back at home in Alberta there’s nothing for me being a telecom engineer. There’s the odd $28 an hour job here and there pulling cable or punching down 2 pair on a DAC’s in some warehouse but really there’s dick.

This is with AT&T and write scripts for there MSC’s across the U.S. It’s a great job and I don’t even leave the motel room to make the 120G. It’s all remote over VPN, all I need is good wireless internet to do my job.

I went home for 3 months last year and worked from Canada, spent Xmas, filed my taxes in both countries, renewed my Visa, but it’s just stupid expensive to live there compared to down here so I came back down.

#177 Baron von Munchouses on 08.26.12 at 12:01 pm

#172 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 11:22 am

You wrote: “The housing bubble took my 20’s away and I want it back – but there are some things money can’t buy”

Sorry bud, but if you spent your 20’s holed up like a victim lamenting the cost of housing, that ain’t no fault of “The housing bubble”.

Again, sorry but that has got to be one of the most pathetic comments ever to appear on this blog. Wow. Just wow. Do most Canadian millennials think like this?

#178 Westernman on 08.26.12 at 12:28 pm

# 176,
” Canadian corporations alone are sitting on 526 Billion in cash… this will translate into jobs over the coming few years…”
Ssssssuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeee it will…
Still buying into the old ” trickle down ” theory ???
Good luck with that …

#179 Old Man on 08.26.12 at 12:35 pm

Risk Analyst: Check out rentals within the borders of Yonge, Eglinton, St. Clair, and Mount Pleasant with a short walk to the subway; perhaps a sublet scenerio, and it has a mixed neighbourhood with everything that one could ever want – this would be a start. Then look around for a future buy, in a few years with a condo on the cheap; get a feel for the area, and look for what is important such as the nearest major grocery store, and the list is long – do your homework years in advance for the big buy.

#180 Canadian Watchdog on 08.26.12 at 12:40 pm

“The economy will grow incrementally going forward, as it is now. Canadian corporations alone are sitting on $526 billion in cash, and profitability has been just peachy.”

Yep. Corporate profits are better then ever, thanks to job cuts and many years of lobbying the government to reduce corporate taxes.

Don’t ever forget what Canada’s REAL debt load is.

There will be defaults.

#181 Derek R on 08.26.12 at 12:48 pm

#159 live within your means on 08.26.12 at 9:26 am wrote:
When DH & I go to the US or Europe we try to stay in inexpensive motels.

I travel quite a bit on business and as a result I’ve stayed in a lot of hotels from the really swanky to the downright budget on the company dime. Even so, I have to agree with you: the budget hotels are better. Given the choice I’ll pick them every time. They may not have a gym or swimming pool (which I wouldn’t have time to use 9 times out of 10) but generally they do have breakfast and internet (which I always use) included in the price. Unlike the Ritz. Why is it that expensive hotels nearly always charge extra for those two essentials? It’s like charging extra for a hot shower.

So even when someone else is paying, I still prefer to go budget.

#182 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 08.26.12 at 12:53 pm

I hear that Smoking Man is now pen pals with Pussy Riot.

The S.M. is getting desperate for a date.

PS don’t try the file- in- a-cake routine….try to hide something in a vodka bottle.

#183 Gunboat Denier on 08.26.12 at 12:57 pm

Piccaso – Ben I recognized your posts immediately.
Thanks for keeping “in blog”

#184 Junius on 08.26.12 at 12:58 pm

#166 Maxx,

I never said that all government intervention was good. In fact, I have been a big critic of the Conservstives intervention in the housing market and lots on specific interventions by liberal governments.

My point is that these are policy arguments and an area where we can legitimately differ. However the assertion from the Neocons and Randroids that no government regulation will bring about a better economy and world is totally ridiculous. It flies in the face of economic history and reality.

#185 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 12:58 pm

“Sorry bud, but if you spent your 20′s holed up. .”

Yes, I spent most of my 20’s “holed up,” because that’s all I could afford, literally speaking.

#186 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 1:10 pm

“Let’s hire teachers at McDonald’s wages because our kids don’t need to learn because you have already figured everything out.”

Considering the fact that after 13 years of schooling most kids are only qualified to work at McDonald’s, why is it so far-fetched to argue teachers deserve the same wage as that cashier at McDonalds? Sorry for drifting off-topic, but performance most be considered when evaluating teachers’ wages like any other field.

#187 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 1:21 pm

#147 Piccaso

LOL!

Now that I think about it, living in a luxury hotel for the rest of my days might be cheaper than either buying or renting real estate in my area. Both rents and mortgages have been driven exorbitantly high. Mortgages are high due to the housing bubble; and rent is high due to all the universities. It’s possible the hotels might be offering cheaper deals, especially considering that the American tourists have all but dried up due to the high Canadian dollar.

Just comes to show how crazy the bubble is here in Canada. . .

#188 Hoof-Hearted on 08.26.12 at 1:27 pm

We own a small lot in BC Interior…..approx 1 acre.

Bought in 1994 for approx.$13,000

Last assessment was $68,000.

Had it listed since April…done 3 haircuts since then…asking $47,000. Haven’t had a single offer..listing expires middle of September aka 2 weeks.

Had taken Realtors advice …and agreed….do approx. $ 10,000 cuts to attract attention. Yes it is a good “bare”lot..one of the few left with no cabins etc. built.

The Realtor has sent out 3 newsletters to his clients saying “don’t shoot the messenger” , implying he is catching flack from people …..like its his fault re the slow market…..

Decision? IMHO….buyers are nervous….bad vibes. No more price cuts, let the listing expire…..Next year is another year . Also…personal feeling is cut price too far….that also scares off people…”gee why is it so cheap something must be wrong with it” …….that’s established buyer psychology .

#189 Canadian Watchdog on 08.26.12 at 1:34 pm

Gorgeous $6 million dollar McMansion estate north of Toronto, foreclosed.

Next…

#190 Grantmi on 08.26.12 at 1:54 pm

Link please.

#189 Hoof-Hearted on 08.26.12 at 1:27 pm
We own a small lot in BC Interior…..approx 1 acre.

Bought in 1994 for approx.$13,000

Last assessment was $68,000.

Had it listed since April…done 3 haircuts since then…asking $47,000. Haven’t had a single offer..listing expires middle of September aka 2 weeks.

I might be willing to offer you $13,000 for it.

#191 Snowboid on 08.26.12 at 2:05 pm

#177 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 11:57 am…

I enjoyed your posts more when you called yourself Ben.

Nonetheless, I still can’t figure out why you would stay in a ‘dive’, especially when you state you work from the room and make $120K a year.

Again, are you related to Smoking Man?

#192 Hoof-Hearted on 08.26.12 at 2:14 pm

#187 DonDWest

When in my 20’s aka early 1980’s)their were jobs galore…..in many fields that were non paper – pushing…aka real work.

Recently, I read articles of the numerous MBA’s hatched in the 1980’s (“Liars Poker” is excellent book) and unleashed on the economy who simply became imbedded in management and felt they did an honest days work raping and pillaging brick and mortar companies with their pencil pushing deals using fiat currency .

Since then, we have had a bunch of suits living in a fantasy world playing monopoly and dragging the rest of us into their fiat economic world, whereby they do believe in a Free Lunch and “something from nothing “.

We are at a point in History where we never had so many people with higher education (more along the lines of a fashion statement like a trophy spouse )but as far as useful members to society should maybe watch Soylent Green.

#193 Old Man on 08.26.12 at 2:15 pm

#185 Junius never forget when the Reformists under our new Caesar deregulated the mortgage market to pump up the GDP with economic spinoffs, so going into a future election could grandstand how great the economy is doing with them – all a con – taking the sheep to slaughter, and they changed hats quickly after the election with dire warnings that things have suddenly changed like a magic trick.

#194 Trailer George on 08.26.12 at 2:20 pm

Thanks for the response Garth. I wasn’t offended by your inbred comment. What would this blog be without a bit of humor? Just a bunch of dorks taking about real estate…boring. But seriously, I really enjoy the blog.

Just for the record, my wife grew up provinces away so we’re not even close to related.

I’ll ask her to write an email to give you her sense on the situation. Long live the trailer park!

#195 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 2:21 pm

#179 Westernman

Wow, that’s the first intelligent thing Westernman said. . . Careful Westernman, you’re beginning to sound like a Liberal. Believing in trickle down economics is a mandatory in conservative circles.

In the end, Garth is wrong, but Garth is right. He’s incorrect that the corporate money will ever trickle down and create jobs. He’s correct that we’ll have a hyper-inflationary depression, but not for the reasons he espouses. We’ll have a hyper-inflationary depression because corporations will be sitting on a pile of money.

This is econ 101, hyper-inflationary depressions are caused by an increased money supply with a reluctance of people (or in our case corporations) to spend it due to a lack of confidence.

#196 Herb on 08.26.12 at 2:22 pm

For all you union haters, a bit of history for you:

THE PRINTERS’ STRIKE OF 1872

The Nine-Hour Movement of 1872 was a broad labour effort to achieve a shorter work day through concerted strike action. The printers of the Toronto Typographical Union went on strike for a nine-hour day in late March. On April 15, they paraded with union supporters to Queen’s Park. Near here, a crowd of 10,000 strong rallied in their support. Employers, led by Liberal George Brown of the “Globe”, had strike leaders charged with criminal conspiracy. Seeking workers’ support, Prime Minister John A. Macdonald passed the Trade Union Act which established the legality of labour organizations. Although certain restrictions remained on union activity, the strike won the TTU a nine-hour day and significantly altered relations between workers, employers and the government.

[Transcribed from a photograph I took of the heritage plaque at Queen’s Park last month.]

That’s how unions got established in Canada, and why unions got established in Canada. Where do you suppose we would be without them? And don’t tell me a capitalist paradise! By the way, don’t you just love the way Liberals and Conservatives changed coats and ideologies over the years?

#197 45north on 08.26.12 at 2:27 pm

Canadian watchdog: $6 million dollar McMansion estate north of Toronto, foreclosed.

4 km from Kettleby ON

#198 Canadian Watchdog on 08.26.12 at 2:48 pm

Infographic: Canada’s Unsustainable Housing Market

#199 jess on 08.26.12 at 2:49 pm

Fair Game
When a 401(k) Is Locked in the Freezer

Gretchen morgenson asks :”what if the company that sponsors your plan goes bankrupt? …that a large majority of 401(k) plans are sponsored by small companies; some 87 percent of plans nationwide have, fewer than 100 participants, according to the Labor Department. ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/business/401-k-woes-when-a-company-goes-bankrupt-fair-game.html?pagewanted=1&ref=business

#200 Herb on 08.26.12 at 3:03 pm

#161 Junius,

I’m sure you, too, have wondered about how to reconcile private profit with the public good. I’m still coming up dry, short of legislation, regulation and taxation. Any good ideas on your part?

#201 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 3:05 pm

#161 Junius on 08.26.12 at 9:56 am

#151 Confrssions,

You confuse a free market with a competitive market. The banks in the US were bailed out because their market is more free than almost all others thereby allowing them to buy the government. They gambled, failed and were bailed out.

The Canadian system is more competitive because it restricts activities which is why it did not fail at the US level. If our bankers had got their way and made it more free we would have suffered the same fate.

I agree with your premise which is that businesses should be accountable and if they fail they fail. However I do not a agree that freer markets makes this so. The more unfettered the markets the more likely the public trough will end up serving corporate interests to protect and sustain monopolies. This is the history of economics for hundreds if not thousands of years.

We should seek competitive economics that keeps business working towards the public good. That is something different altogether from unregulated and unfettered markets,

———
Junius, are you kidding or just incredibly stupid. Bailing out of corporations is not free market. The government not being allowed to do this is a free market.

You actual agree with me and Ayn Rand but you’re so stupid you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Your whole response above is a total contradiction. you’re a total fool. You’re a joke. And you’re not funny.

#202 jess on 08.26.12 at 3:09 pm

maxx

who are the meddlers ?

#203 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 3:14 pm

#165 Herb on 08.26.12 at 10:26 am

#151 Cofessions of a eal estate bear,

your faith in fundamental capitalism is touching. Unfortunately, your “true free market” is as real as the Kingdom of Heaven, which has not been seen in this world either.

Come to think of it, I’d put more hope in the Kingdom of Heaven. At least that wouldn’t be a “me-first” free-for-all.
——–
Herb, you are such a total Marxist it’s not even funny. Let me guess, you studied economics at university?

Why don’t you start your own business and then once you’ve hired all you employees and paid everyone big pay checks so they have everything you bleeding heart desires, then send the rest of the cash pile into Ottawa so they can help all the other losers on the public dole.

You’re a genius.

#204 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 3:27 pm

The economy will grow incrementally going forward, as it is now. Canadian corporations alone are sitting on $526 billion in cash, and profitability has been just peachy. This will translate into jobs over the coming few years, so you should expect glacial but steady improvement, replete with more employment, inflation, higher interest rates and flatlining or declining hard asset values (including gold and real estate). Depression? Feel free to wallow in one if you wish, but the economy will do just fine. — Garth
—-
Tell it to Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, UK, Germany, Japan, USA, and Canada. Those days are over baby.

#205 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 3:54 pm

#193 Hoof-Hearted on 08.26.12 at 2:14 pm

Nice post. Middle management and bean counters are destroying our manufacturing base. They did not start the companies they run and the have little stake in them except for their jobs, which they do quite well at.

That’s why real businesses in North America have left or are leaving.

Never mind all the problems caused by governments with all the nanny state taxes. It’s a double whammy.

#206 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 4:01 pm

Although certain restrictions remained on union activity, the strike won the TTU a nine-hour day and significantly altered relations between workers, employers and the government.
——-
And that marked the beginning of the end in a democracy.

That’s why the USA was created as a republic where the rights of the individual always trump the will of the mob. The founders dubbed the term Democracy as Mobocracy. Mob rules.

#207 Devore on 08.26.12 at 4:01 pm

#172 DonDWest

The housing bubble took my 20′s away and I want it back

Oh, not this again…

(insert rolling eyes smiley here)

YOU took your 20s away. One day you will face this fact, and you will be able to get on with your life, instead of looking for villains in shadowy corners.

What do you want back anyways? Your 20s? Really? The bubble? Well, it’s still here, jump in.

#208 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 4:05 pm

#192 Snowboid on 08.26.12 at 2:05 pm

I never called it a dive, you assumed it is.

#209 Westernman on 08.26.12 at 4:08 pm

Comrade Herbie @ # 201
” Legislation, regulation and taxation ”
Well done Comrade – spoken like a true Marxist!
This is the kind of ” solution ” that has sunk this country and indeed destroyed most of the Western world…

#210 Devore on 08.26.12 at 4:20 pm

#197 Herb

For all you union haters, a bit of history for you:

THE PRINTERS’ STRIKE OF 1872

150 years ago? What have you done for me lately?

Hey, wonder if you feel as strongly about buggy whip makers.

#211 Ralph Cramdown on 08.26.12 at 4:26 pm

There is nothing magical about 70% home ownership. The rate has steadily climbed for the past 40 years in Canada, and there is no reason that it won’t continue to do so.

The % of population able to diagnose or perform minor repairs on their cars and houses has steadily declined, as we’ve become a nation of paper pushers and symbol processors (condos are a good solution for some of these people). Also, there’s a fraction of the population that’s mentally ill, grossly irresponsible with money, or unemployable. Go read some landlord blogs and see how they complain about tenant quality, because that’s your marginal buyer. Or watch Holmes on Homes to see what happens when marginal buyer meets marginal product.

#212 truth hammer on 08.26.12 at 4:29 pm

Too bad that the Liberals are such extremists…..this knee jerkism is by and large the main reason why Canada is still a dark age of economy. Isn’t it classic to bring up a labour incident from the 1600’s and present it as contemporary…….I’m surprised the writer forgot to include the Tollpuddle Massacre……which is required reading for the pouring of gasoline in the hair set.

“No wonder the American middle class has little faith in the future. While they get up every morning and go to work (those lucky enough to have jobs, anyway) their elected leaders have been relentlessly sabotaging their efforts. Maybe there’s too much debate about small government versus big government, when the issue should be about inept government.”

It is not political posturing that is going to cure the ails of the tax payer…..it is the political will to demand structural reform systemically across the spectrum of all political, civic and civilian relationships in Canada that will at some point relieve the taxpayers of the political burdens of entrenched party philosophies. What will be the catalyst is yet to be defined….I suspect it will be the recognition that egregious taxation of the citizen for the support of an elite minority of civil and union activists that will finally turn the tide.

When anyone suggests that the status quo is no longer an application that taxpaying citizens can provide to the elite unionists and greedy few who call themselves civil servants of course the extremist Liberals immediatley set their hair on fire and begin the ad hominem name calling. They are realizing that this tactic is no longer as effective due to the Liberal Party being consigned to the trashbin of Canadian history. The stats are proving out that a majority of people in ths country are pissed at the disparity between the elites and the working class.

No one is suggesting that we dump all civic interests…only that we rationalize them…..to where the taxpayer can afford them. The structure of the current sytem is unbalanced with over 80% of earnings going to support an elite minority union cadre while the worker takes home less every year and has to cut back on priorities that support the well being of hearth and home.

Civic workers should all be fired…and then rehired at market rates……the disgruntled will be urged to start their own self supporting enterprises…..after all don’t they continue to state that they are the most intelligent and capable and that is why they demand such unusually high wages and perks?

We can easily import quality workers on guest worker visa’s for any shortfall in local budgets. This way we are not responsible for pensions and perks. It is feasible to lower taxes in this country by 90% if the systemic corruption of legacy contracts held by civil service unions are overturned and made ‘unconstitutional’ for the benefit of all future generations.

If you had 90% more money in your pay package what would you be able to do for your family? What would all that extra money do for the economy?

#213 expat_engineer on 08.26.12 at 4:31 pm

” but the economy will do just fine. — Garth ”

Garth – You are clueless. (totally and completely).

Right so far. And you? — Garth

#214 Junius on 08.26.12 at 4:35 pm

#202 Blue Monster,

You said,”Junius, are you kidding or just incredibly stupid. Bailing out of corporations is not free market. The government not being allowed to do this is a free market.”

Yet this is what has happened. The more deregulated and free the market has become the more the banks and large corporations get bailed out.

The part you are missing is that free markets cannot exist. The most important regulation required is anti-trust or completion law. Large corporations hate to compete and prefer instead to create monopolies that protect them from competition. So called free markets allows them to do this and get bailed out if they fail.

If you believe otherwise then you are not just stupid but blind.

#215 Victor on 08.26.12 at 4:39 pm

#180 Old Man on 08.26.12 at 12:35 pm

Risk Analyst: Check out rentals within the borders of Yonge, Eglinton, St. Clair, and Mount Pleasant with a short walk to the subway; perhaps a sublet scenerio, and it has a mixed neighbourhood with everything that one could ever want – this would be a start. Then look around for a future buy, in a few years with a condo on the cheap; get a feel for the area, and look for what is important such as the nearest major grocery store, and the list is long – do your homework years in advance for the big buy.

==============================

My wife and I live in this area. We rent a gorgeous 2 bedroom apartment overlooking the city and pay about $1500 in rent.

Our net worth is a little over $400K and we gross $200K between us.

We live a little beneath our means and fully intend to make a nice jump in lifestyle when the time is right. For now, we’re enjoying the freedom our lifestyle allows.

I’m 42, she’s 31.

Life is good and we’re planning on making it better by making smart choices.

#216 Hoof-Hearted on 08.26.12 at 4:40 pm

Labour Unions ?

If one follows the Socialist/Communist model…they act as peacetime militia, their ACTUAL role is to be a chokepoint threat to greater society aka via the strike.

They are simply another form of Gov’t..UNelected power. Unions are a “straw man” to give the masses a false sense of empowerment…

However, the Private Sector unions have lost influence, but the Public Sector has not. Hence a portal view of the future, where Politicians are either puppets or disposable….

#217 Herb on 08.26.12 at 4:41 pm

#211 Devore,

not a thing, Devore, and I don’t intend to do a darn thing for you.

#218 Herb on 08.26.12 at 4:44 pm

#210 Westernmoron,

the pitts, isn’t it? But it will have to do while we’re waiting for private profiteers to do something for the public good on their own.

#219 brainsail on 08.26.12 at 4:47 pm

#177 Piccaso

Do you ever get up to Austin?

#220 Junius on 08.26.12 at 4:48 pm

#210 Westerman,

You said,”” Legislation, regulation and taxation ”
Well done Comrade – spoken like a true Marxist!”

Actually these were FDR’s cornerstones of the New Deal that brought in 5 decades of prosperity. Even people like Conrad Black were smart enough to recognize that FDR saved capitalism by ameliorating its excess.

If Marx was voting in the US elections he would certainly be cheering for Romney and Ryan. Their naked support of the 1% and their austerity for everyone else would bring on the class conflict that Marx predicted would end capitalism.

#221 Herb on 08.26.12 at 4:49 pm

Blue Monster …,

couldn’t you stay in the shallow end of the gene pool? I did not study economics, and I have run a business, kept the employees happy and productive, and paid taxes. Asso!

#222 Ralph Cramdown on 08.26.12 at 4:53 pm

That’s why the USA was created as a republic where the rights of the individual always trump the will of the mob.

You’re hilarious, young man. Wickard v. Filburn, among a thousand other examples dating to the formation of the republic.

P.S. Good luck in your Objectivist/Heinleinian world. What would a pure free market economy have had in store for you? Your parents would have been illiterates, at the economic subsistence level, and you would have been too.

#223 Dan from Richmond Hill on 08.26.12 at 4:56 pm

#177 Piccaso

What kind of visa do you need ?

#224 truth hammer on 08.26.12 at 5:03 pm

BTW…to finish off a thought on representing past offenses as contempory indicators……..lets not forget some of the small missteps of socialism……The Bolshevik revolution where hundreds of millions of innocents were put to death over a period of 80 years and elite socialists were the head executioner of any dissenting opinions in the name of ‘union’. The Red Wave in China under Mao where hundreds of millions were murdered in the name of socialism and leading too a system where a few million elite union members rule at the the point of a gun over a billion slaves. Do we even have to talk about the great equality movements of the Khmer Rouge…..Castro…….Somalia….Eritrea…….all big on unions and socialism while being very bad for the people.

So don’t hold your social ideals over the masses while attempting to hide the fact that unions have always tended towards totalitarianism and mass murder whn allowed to gain control……..look at the NDP histories in BC and Ontario…….first to last in one term.

Does it ever occur to you that nobody cares? — Garth

#225 Derek R on 08.26.12 at 5:05 pm

#201 Herb on 08.26.12 at 3:03 pm wrote:
Junius, I’m sure you, too, have wondered about how to reconcile private profit with the public good. I’m still coming up dry, short of legislation, regulation and taxation. Any good ideas on your part?

Okay, I’m not Junius but…

Reconciling private profit with the public good is perfectly possible once you realise that some profit is down to your own efforts and some is down to other people’s efforts. The trick is to let people keep all of the former but to tax all of the latter.

So for instance if you buy a run-down house in a run-down neighbourhood and you fix it up and sell it for a higher price you deserve to keep all the profit because it is due to your hard work. On the other hand if you do nothing to the house but your neighbours all fix their houses up so that the neighbourhood becomes more desirable and you then sell the house for a higher price you don’t deserve to keep any of the profit because it is due to your neighbours’ hard work.

So you need a tax which can differentiate between the two cases. There is such a tax, the Land Value Tax which funnily enough has been used in Canada in the past very successfully in Vancouver and in Alberta.

It’s not used much nowadays since it makes it very difficult for The Powers That Be to get a free lunch out of the rest of us.

#226 Junius on 08.26.12 at 5:07 pm

#207 Blue Monster,

You said, “That’s why the USA was created as a republic where the rights of the individual always trump the will of the mob. The founders dubbed the term Democracy as Mobocracy. Mob rules.”

Unfortunately the US has gone from “We the People” to “Me the Person” over the past few decades.

#227 Westernman on 08.26.12 at 5:08 pm

Comrade Herbie @ # 219,
Maybe you don’t know this Comrade but it is not incumbent upon private entities who generate wealth and reap profit for their efforts to support a massive underclass of bums, welfare cheats and general low-life non producers in the lap of luxury for the rest of their lives…
Maybe you should just move to a communist country where you belong…

#228 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 5:10 pm

The part you are missing is that free markets cannot exist. The most important regulation required is anti-trust
——-
In a free market anti-trust is dealt with by consumer selection. If the business is not trusted, they won’t get much business.

Government anti-trust laws and heavy regulations IS what creates monopolies.

Who do you work for Junius? If you have your own business where to your revenues come from? Which government departments are your customers / friends?

#229 jess on 08.26.12 at 5:19 pm

” blocker” corporations

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192880/More-tax-woes-Mitt-Romney-leaked-documents-uses-offshore-investment-funds-called-Blockers-avoid-taxes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bain-documents-romney-offshore-investments-blockers-avoid-taxes/story?id=17067015#.UDcELar2mtQ

#230 jess on 08.26.12 at 5:35 pm

read the n zealand connection
NZ foreign trusts among global tax havens
CHALKIE – TIM HUNTER

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7521775/NZ-foreign-trusts-among-global-tax-havens

#231 Casual Observer on 08.26.12 at 5:41 pm

In a free market anti-trust is dealt with by consumer selection. If the business is not trusted, they won’t get much business.

Anti-trust laws have nothing to do with “trusting” a business. They have to do with preventing monopoly situations which would limit consumer selection.

#232 Piccaso on 08.26.12 at 5:50 pm

#224 Dan from Richmond Hill on 08.26.12 at 4:56 pm

TN Visa

#233 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 6:03 pm

Does it ever occur to you that nobody cares? — Garth

I care Garth. There’s more going on than just real estate. The real estate craze is just one symptom of a broken economy and corrupted morality. Our society has lost it’s way due to a loss of ethics. When government control and plundering is condoned by the mass of people on the dole of the welfare state, we’re all doomed.

Open your eyes to the bigger picture. Who gives a damn any more about real estate. The market is now about to rectify that error.

Next issue is a sovereign debt crises. The market is about to solve that too. Are you ready?

Absolutely. — Garth

#234 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 6:14 pm

#232 Casual Observer on 08.26.12 at 5:41 pm

In a free market anti-trust is dealt with by consumer selection. If the business is not trusted, they won’t get much business.

Anti-trust laws have nothing to do with “trusting” a business. They have to do with preventing monopoly situations which would limit consumer selection.
—–
Of course they do, that’s why they’re called anti-trust, the have to do with trust. Hence this is why they don’t work because you can’t trust government. These laws actually create monopolies and sniffle competition. The lobbyists actually help shape the regulatrory and legal environment for their own benefit.

The free market is the best anti-trust regulator, not government edict.

#235 Ralph Cramdown on 08.26.12 at 6:18 pm

In a free market anti-trust is dealt with by consumer selection. If the business is not trusted, they won’t get much business.

Works great in the widget business. Not so great for insurance, annuities or pharmaceuticals. Spend a bit of time reading some history and some business affairs, and maybe you can come back to us with an improved version of your “we wouldn’t need a government if everyone subscribed to Consumer Reports!” thesis.

#236 Junius on 08.26.12 at 6:19 pm

#229 Blue Monster,

You said, “Government anti-trust laws and heavy regulations IS what creates monopolies.”

You have it backwards. This is what happens when you become a stooge for the right wing lunatics. Black is white.

FYI – I operate a successful business that produces product and distributes it globally. We compete with large corporations who would continually try and bury us by using government regulation to drive out competition. They use your language of free markets hoping that government regulators are as dumb as people like you to fall for it.

#237 deja view? on 08.26.12 at 6:26 pm

meanwhile at the shallow end of the gene pool, you know, the end with the diving board..
I remember back in the mid 80s when an old friend said he was swarmed at a party because he actually had a job!
What’s his secret they all wanted to know..
He was a Vancouver bus driver.

#238 Junius on 08.26.12 at 6:29 pm

#226 Derek R,

I have no problem with profit so long as it is acquired through the providing of useful goods and services in a competitive market and accounts for externalities (ie doesn’t come from pollution). What I object to are profits that are soley derived from extraction of wealth from others or from nature at the expense of the group.

I agree with Schumpeter that the only morally justifiable reasons to support Capitalism are it “creative destruction” through innovation and a more efficient allocation of resources. However the balance with the public good must always be considered.

The extractors of wealth such as the banks and capitalists like Romney who take without creating are the lowest form of capitalist. They take without giving and illegitimize the system.

#239 Hoof-Hearted on 08.26.12 at 6:31 pm

USA= ? …down the Rabbit Hole….

If one digs digs digs..on can find some interesting history.

The United States Of America was apparently designed to be separate autonomous states(quasi nations) under the umbrella of a military force that would be a co-op of sorts to protect each and very one of them.

http://wwwlibertyfriends.blogspot.ca/2012/08/a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it.html

QUOTE:

The story goes that Benjamin Franklin was approached by a woman as he left the Constitutional Convention 1
She asked:

“What have you given us?”

Franklin is said to have replied:
“A republic, if you can keep it.”

This exchange was common knowledge 50 years or so ago, as commonly taught to schoolchildren as the story about George Washington’s boyhood experience practicing a woodcutter’s skill on his father’s prized cherry tree and, later, refusing to lie about it.

It turns out, the tale about Washington was a lie. But Franklin’s conversation with Mrs. Powell really occurred. Why is it, then, that most people are still aware of the fiction about Washington but are ignorant of the fact about Franklin and, in particular, the truth of Franklin’s comment?

Today many, if not most, people believe the Founders gave us a democracy, instead of a constitutional republic, or a hybridized version of the two, called a democratic republic. A Lincoln Journal Star reader recently took this latter position, and, in making his point, commented that the Founders were “pro-democracy.”

=====================================

One may also “dig” and find numerous opinions that the USA was technically bankrupt within 20 years of the Federal Reserve being created in 1913, hence another form of Governance evolved from the ashes. Various savvy parties have avoided legal issues because they are aware of their legal standing as a result of this , and their declaration of what they are and what they are not.(Whole other topic)

Finally…..Is the US a ” Republic”.?
IMHO No….they pissed that way loooongg ago….

#240 Junius on 08.26.12 at 6:32 pm

#232 Casual Observer,

You are correct, of course. His ideology holds (as it must) that markets magically self regulate. The fact that this does not happen because these corporations blind the public with marketing, advertising and false information is beside the point. He assumes perfect information at all times because the ideology fails without it. This is a case of dogma over reason and history.

#241 Herb on 08.26.12 at 7:13 pm

#228 Westernmoron,

I’d just get your mindless propaganda from the other side, and have no wish to go bananas in stereo. Besides, Canada – warts, morons and all – has grown on me over the course of my life. Mind you, if your intellectual spawn ever reaches demographic significance, I’m outta here.

#242 Smoking Man on 08.26.12 at 7:31 pm

DELETED

#243 Smoking Man on 08.26.12 at 7:34 pm

U fks don’t get it. Hounesty truthfullness loyalty only get u more pats on the head. To make loot you got to. BE comortablE being. A basterd

#244 Jim on 08.26.12 at 7:36 pm

#161 Junius

You have to be joking. A government that steals money from taxpayers in order to bail out private enterprises is an essential part of a free market???

I mean, even left wingers call this sort of thing ‘corporate welfare’, or ‘socialism for the rich’. An interventionist government that steals and reallocates funds is incompatible with free markets, which are the sum total of consensual transactions between social actors.

#245 In GARTH Almighty not God we Trust on 08.26.12 at 8:03 pm

#234 Blue Monster

“Next issue is a sovereign debt crises. The market is about to solve that too. Are you ready?”

Are you friggin serious dude? The bearded mystic oracle, all knowing, all wise, financial prognosticator without equal, financial tea leaf reader extraordinaire, denouncer of parliamentarian peckerheads and peckerettes, former minister of all revenues in this land, lone voice of financial reason crying out in the HELOC infested wasteland of Canada is being questioned about his readiness???? Give your head a shake cowboy! Sheeesh!

#246 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 08.26.12 at 8:05 pm

@#244 Smoking Nam

dude…….yer meds need to be increased !

#247 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.26.12 at 8:12 pm


“This will translate into jobs over the coming few years, so you should expect glacial but steady improvement, replete with more employment, inflation, higher interest rates and flatlining or declining hard asset values (including gold and real estate).” — Garth
+
#234 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables — “Next issue is a sovereign debt crises. The market is about to solve that too.”
+
#240 Hoof-Hearted — “USA= ? …down the Rabbit Hole….”

Good banter / posts / responses. See link — Jobs? Detroit See the comparison between Detroit and Hiroshima 1945, and the way they are today — 2:09 clip.

Also take note of the ‘quakes, hurricane etc. There’s more to life than RE.
*
32:14 clip Recall the large quantities of ammo the US military, DHS and TSA have been buying recently, and why Soros / Obomba want gun control? This may enlighten one; Sixty ‘Quakes in 16 hours — SoCal. Quadruple whammy, with Isaac around Miami, tornadoes, ‘quakes and the RNC — not the best of places to be in; Unsure? “No other American presidential candidate has ever left the US to garner campaign contributions from foreign citizens.”; The Guardian Dumped Trevino after nine days. Is that a record? 3:17 clip “Now you know why “someone” is propping up Facebook’s stock price.” wrh.com (the CIA and WH); Globalists and Neocons They are the ones who want Assad out, no one else does.

#248 Pussy Riot (Fans of Smoking Man) on 08.26.12 at 8:15 pm

Dear “Mr DELETED” (aka Smoking Man)

Thank you for all your support..especially the ” used- but – clean” Value Village lingerie.

How you snuck the file in the vodka bottle is a testament to your dual diploma in Nuclear Physics and AmWay sales .

We PVR’d you in action….can’t wait till parole day…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVKsd8z6scw

tata till then…..

#249 Herb on 08.26.12 at 8:18 pm

#235 Blue Monster,

Of course they do, that’s why they’re called anti-trust …

Don’t open your eyes; you’ve just disappeared up your own ringpiece.

#250 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 08.26.12 at 8:23 pm

#246 In GARTH Almighty not God we Trust on 08.26.12 at
—–
I don’t believe in god but I’m certain Garth is real and that he loves me. Right Garth?

Displease me and learn. — Garth

#251 Daisy Mae on 08.26.12 at 8:23 pm

146realtors are in a panic on 08.26.12 at 1:06 am

“Condo sales and prices are crashing hard in Toronto. Realtors and bankers are in an all out panic . The house of cards is crashing down like the glass balconies of condos built in downtown Toronto. It’s going to be a nasty crash realtors a nasty crash.”

********************

Amazing. Garth predicted all this at least FOUR years ago…but no one wanted to listen.

#252 Daisy Mae on 08.26.12 at 8:29 pm

#205 BLUE MONSTER: “Tell it to Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, UK, Germany, Japan, USA….”
*****************

He’s talking about Canada. The rest of the world is on its own….

#253 Daisy Mae on 08.26.12 at 8:32 pm

#225 Truth Hammer:

“Does it ever occur to you that nobody cares? — Garth”

******************

Priceless…

#254 Just(not)AnotherSheeple on 08.26.12 at 8:37 pm

Re: #194 Old Man and all libtard Junius posts:
#185 Junius never forget when the Reformists under our new Caesar deregulated the mortgage market to pump up the GDP with economic spinoffs, so going into a future election could grandstand how great the economy is doing with them – all a con – taking the sheep to slaughter, and they changed hats quickly after the election with dire warnings that things have suddenly changed like a magic trick.
====================================
Lets go back to the history books:

2001 – introduction of Canada Mortgage Bonds, aimed at ensuring the supply of low-cost mortgage funding and keeping interest low.
Sep. 2003 – removed all price ceiling limitations. Now any mortgage would be insured regardless of the cost.
Mar. 2004 – Flex-Down product allows 5% down to be borrowed and 1.5% closing costs to be borrowed (essentially zero down, but 95% insured)

Now “Junius” is excused -he was perhaps too young to remember these years but “Old Man” like you should remember who were the rulers all these years.
And all this schmoozing and boozing at the very popular summer barbecues in the Italian neighborhoods around Toronto – paid for and attended by all these developers eager to talk to the people in power.

So – who was responsible for launching the bubble machine and insuring that the “right people” with the “right background” were in the “right places” to make the “right decisions”.

#255 Herb on 08.26.12 at 9:04 pm

#226 Derek R,

I owe you an answer and can’t give you one since I have no idea how Land Value Tax might work out in practice. Would it replace income tax, for instance?

I do know the pitfalls of the current capital value property tax system and how it can make it impossible for people whose incomes don’t keep pace with rising property values to keep their homes. A capital gains tax on unrealized capital gains is just plain ridiculous.

Perhaps pigs will sprout wings some day and we will get a re-examination of our entire tax structure. Closing all special interest loopholes would be a revolution indeed.

#256 DonDWest on 08.26.12 at 9:15 pm

#256 Herb

“I owe you an answer and can’t give you one since I have no idea how Land Value Tax might work out in practice. Would it replace income tax, for instance?”

It’s supposed to replace payroll tax. Read up the work done by economist Henry George.

#257 Junius on 08.26.12 at 9:25 pm

#245 Jim,

You said,”You have to be joking. A government that steals money from taxpayers in order to bail out private enterprises is an essential part of a free market???”

You are not reading carefully enough. I said that there is no such thing as a free market as they quickly become gamed. The bailouts were a direct result of deregulation of the financial sector. The industry bought the government which is how they got deregulated and how they got bailed out. Free markets create crony capitalism.

#258 Patiently Waiting on 08.26.12 at 9:30 pm

This ones for you “Renters Rule”. 2 & 3 bedroom condos that have reduced their asking prices in the west end of Vancouver. Note that in checking the history of many of these units, there were more price reductions than shown in a lot of cases, as the listings were allowed to expire or were terminated and re-listed at a lower price.

http://mlslink.mlxchange.com/DotNet/Pub/EmailView.aspx?r=722550859&s=BRC&t=BRC

Also, there are a lot of units that do not show the price reductions unless you search the history, so this is only a fraction of the condos that have had actual price reductions.

Cheers
PW

#259 Realtor # 1 on 08.26.12 at 9:56 pm

#129 Ralph
Stop brining up negative equity, if you don’t plan on selling your home then is doesn’t matter.
If you bought in 89 you would had negative equity for about 10 years and would have tripled your money in the last 5 years.

The day you buy your home you have negative equity -5% to close , 5% to sell.

#260 Derek R on 08.26.12 at 10:25 pm

#239 Junius on 08.26.12 at 6:29 pm wrote:
The extractors of wealth such as the banks and capitalists like Romney who take without creating are the lowest form of capitalist. They take without giving and illegitimize the system.

Agreed. In essence there are two types of capitalist: the entrepreneur who generates wealth in the form of goods and services for sale; and the rentier who takes that wealth from others in the form of rent or interest. A healthy capitalist economy needs to encourage the first type and discourage the second. It can cope with a certain number of rentiers but there is a limit.

#261 cynically on 08.26.12 at 10:43 pm

#240 Hoof-Hearted – Why do you disbelieve one story which has had more validity over the years and yet believe the other far less known one when both are probably untrue historical tales used to support a position at one time? As to your question “Is the US a republic,” most people would think so and we know for sure that it is not a monarchy like a certain country to its north where its “subjects” know for sure what they are and I’m sure always be.

#262 Derek R on 08.26.12 at 11:13 pm

#256 Herb on 08.26.12 at 9:04 pm wrote:
I owe you an answer and can’t give you one since I have no idea how Land Value Tax might work out in practice. Would it replace income tax, for instance?

The general idea is to replace as many taxes as possible with Land Value Tax. If I were “in charge” I would replace GST and corporation taxes for starters. It would great if income tax could be replaced as well but at the least I would reduce income tax.

In fact there are some LVT advocates who believe that LVT can replace all other taxes. I’m not sure that that is possible but it may be.

I do know the pitfalls of the current capital value property tax system and how it can make it impossible for people whose incomes don’t keep pace with rising property values to keep their homes. A capital gains tax on unrealized capital gains is just plain ridiculous.

One of the side-effects of a high enough rate of LVT is that it reduces property values so capital gains, realised or not, would not be on the cards. So one way of preventing the issue you mention is to levy a very high monthly LVT rate – one that is the equivalent of the rental value of the property. If 80% of the revenue is then returned to each Canadian as a Citizens Dividend, everyone living in an average value (or less) house would receive enough Citizens Dividend to pay their Land Value Tax in full. In fact those living in a smaller house would come out ahead on the deal.

#263 renters rule on 08.27.12 at 7:43 am

@#260 Patiently Waiting

thanks!