Family

Chad rocks. At least he used to. “My wife and I are reformed ex rock n rollers,” he tells me, “who took a little longer than most to grow up. We both pursued careers in music until our mid to late twenties when we decided to move in with her Mom and Dad and get us some education and some real jobs.”

Something about that decision sucks, Chad. But at least you two went on to be a record producer and club owner, no doubt?

“Fast forward a few years and she is now a nurse and I’m an environmental technician for the government. Our combined income is about 140k per year. We are both financially illiterate idiots and we managed to get ourselves into about 80 grand worth of debt (student loans, furniture, car, wedding). We are doing our best to pay down the debt but the new baby we just had is making that difficult. Blah blah blah, anyway…”

Bummer. But the good news has got to be that you’ve moved on from the Mom-&-Dad thing, forged your own identities, broken those surly bonds of emotional servitude and are going totally epic in your own freakin’ way. Right?

“Here’s what’s been bothering me. Her family is absolutely horrified that we are raising our child in a rental. We are constantly belittled by them and they are adamant that we buy something before “prices in Edmonton skyrocket”. Trouble is we have less than 10k in savings, a boat load of debt and have no business being home owners.”

Yeah, but if they don’t like it, they don’t need to visit. No visit, no belittling. No parental horror. No pressure to buy. Besides, you have no money. Which sucks, but it’s also cool because what’s that but a filter between you and reality? Rock on, dude. Let the dinos roam elsewhere. Say, do you know ‘Stairway to Heaven’?

“Their grand plan to rescue us is to sell their current home and give us 150K to purchase both sides of a duplex. They would live in one side, us in the other while her Mother provides child care when my wife returns to work.”

Okay, so that sounds moderately useful, so long as it’s a really thick wall. And it’s sweet they’d give you $150,000 like that, with no strings attached. Maybe I was wrong about these helo folks and their suffocating interference. Gimme the granular.

“The deal is we take out a mortgage for approx 450k (duplexes in Edmonton are selling for about 300k per side) and when prices soar due to all the upcoming refinery projects we flip it and give them their 150k back and split the rest with my wife’s brother (who by the way already owns a 350k house bought with a cash-back mortgage). Her family refers to this as the “deal of the century” and while I know they mean well, I can’t help but think they are leading us to our doom.”

Waitafrigginminute. They give you $150,000 on condition that you (who have no money) borrow $450,000 and assume all of the risk, so they can live for free in return for babysitting, and own still half the asset for which you are 100% liable, and get their $150,000 back later? Did they borrow all your weed? And what’s with this brother, who’ll take half the non-existent profit you’ll make flipping a semi-detached house in a city where real estate is as screwed as everywhere else? Take this deal and you are the idiot of the century.

“Please Garth, can you shed some light on our situation? Is there any validity to their proposal or is it sheer stupidity?”

Chad, get a gripe. You married into a family of Albertan cannibals, probably figuring you rocked your brains out two decades ago, so they can now peacefully devour you. This is one dumb plan in which they get tangible and immediate financial benefits while you shoulder the debt load and chase mythical profits.

There are rules to real estate investing, as I keep trying to point out. One of them is never, ever  invest in a property with anyone you haven’t slept with. That normally means (outside of parts of Regina, of course), brothers, mothers and fathers-in-law. Never go halfsies on a deed with a sibling, or co-sign your sister’s mortgage or buy a property and put it in your kid’s name. Such actions are driven 100% by useless emotions like love, guilt and devotion. Avoid them.

So, walk away if you can. But I don’t like the sounds of this. You may have already crossed to the dark side – that far shore where people shop at Costco, visit families on Sunday, covet duplexes, buy Kias and secretly play ‘Glory Days.’

I’m coming for you on the Harley. Call the band.

186 comments ↓

#1 KLIP on 08.15.12 at 12:09 am

Edmonton WAAAAAYYYYY over priced. Only a fool would buy anything here now, let alone with the outlaws.

Run Chad.

#2 FurstFurst on 08.15.12 at 12:09 am

First

#3 A Fan in Van on 08.15.12 at 12:16 am

Sounds like the blind leading the blind, Chad. Or maybe the dumb leading the dumb.

#4 Duke on 08.15.12 at 12:16 am

Garth You’re early!

#5 NSF on 08.15.12 at 12:17 am

Chad put on your Gene Simmons teeth boots and kick her parents in the teeth…repeatedly…while listening to Slayer.

Then politely decline their offer.

#6 Mali on 08.15.12 at 12:18 am

Were you visiting this loser, is that it why you are late

#7 ozy - run from vampires on 08.15.12 at 12:23 am

run from vampires, they goal is to turn everyone into one – RE Adicts, who the …. do they think tey are to loon in your personal business? Hello kanata wakeup

#8 greed on 08.15.12 at 12:23 am

That picture is funny…

Reminds me of the movie where the preacher wants to sell Daniel Day Lewis(actor) his oil out on the old …I think it was called the Bandy tract of land. And Daniel Day Lewis explains how they drill for oil. Just stick the straw in and suck it out.

Funny as ….

#9 ozy - run from vampires on 08.15.12 at 12:24 am

run from vampires, their goal is to turn everyone else into one – RE Addicts, who the …. do they think they are to stick thier un-called for nose in your personal business?
Hello kanata wakeup

#10 John in Mtl on 08.15.12 at 12:25 am

Gosh I love your wry prose and wicked sense of humour :)

Off topic: Kid says to his mom: “when I grow up I want to be a musician”. To which mom replies: “honey, you can’t do both.”.

John

#11 Westsider on 08.15.12 at 12:26 am

I are been a muzishun all my life and ain’t had no lernin and I done good. Rock and Roll is here to stay!!!

#12 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 08.15.12 at 12:30 am

Can’t we discuss stucco and dentistry ?

#13 Vincent HRD on 08.15.12 at 12:34 am

Garth, I’ll ride with you (Vincent twin), meet you at Jasper Ave. and 101 Street, high noon.

#14 Davey Boy on 08.15.12 at 12:37 am

I thought most villages only had one idiot, obviously that’s not the case in Edmonton…

#15 Torquemada on 08.15.12 at 12:38 am

Sounds like the blind leading the blind, Chad. Or maybe the dumb leading the dumb.

Close. As with all real estate deals of the century it’s the blind leading the easily led.

#16 Nubbers on 08.15.12 at 12:39 am

Presumably Chad would also be paying a premium for a new build. The chances of finding both halves of a duplex for sale at once would otherwise be very low.

#17 Elmer on 08.15.12 at 12:40 am

10k in savings? That will buy you a perfectly livable camper like this: http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii268/georgeskustomauto/miscpics57Chevwagon001.jpg

I hear walmart lets you park in their parking lot over night. No need to stay a poor renter when you could be master of your domain!

#18 TNT on 08.15.12 at 12:40 am

Great answer, I’ll drink to that.

#19 tkid on 08.15.12 at 12:41 am

With family like that, Chad, you don’t need any enemies.

Refuse the deal.

This is a scheme where you are buying two homes. You only need one. In return for borrowing $150,000, you pay no interest but will give your brother in law half of any profits. Oh, and you sacrifice your privacy and independance as for damned sure your in-laws will interfere in how you raise your children, be in and out of your house, etc etc. Hey, that $150,000 entitles them to busybody into everything you do. And you sell your home when they feel it is time to sell your home.

Jeebus, if my family – my family, not my in-laws, but my family – suggested a scheme like this to me I’d up and move to a different section of the country. Which is my suggestion.

Move! And if the wife thinks this scheme of her family is even halfway agreeable, get a vasectomy.

#20 jsan on 08.15.12 at 12:42 am

Chad, tell your inlaws that the oilsands will soon be a distant memory and when that happens Edmonton will quickly become the next Detroit.

http://www.e-catworld.com/

#21 Ryan Perich on 08.15.12 at 12:43 am

I work with someone who’s about to get married. a WHOLE house , not a half a house like a duplex. NEW built 2012. 1700 sq feet. bi-level. double attached garage IN EDMONTON for sale LIST PRICE $409,000. and even that is over priced.

half a house is worth 2/3 of a whole house ? beyond stupid. you don’t deserve your 70k year job. I do though, for knowing half a house isn’t worth 2/3 of a NEW one in the same city

#22 John in Mtl on 08.15.12 at 12:44 am

Have I just discovered the “secret” of why the world is such a mess, financially speaking; and that it was all planned ahead of time? – no, this isn’t a new conspiracy theory but it certainly could account for our host’s seemingly unwavering trust in the system and why his investing strategies might be sound advice.

The article is an interesting and quite plausible point of view. Read up and draw your own conclusions. The commentaries are also quite enlightening:
“The printing Press In Your House” http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/comment/48599

Extract: (posted w/o permission from author)

“… Imagine you can print money in your home, and that the money is your city’s currency. You do not need any income for your expenses, and you can never go bankrupt, since you print your own money. For you, debt and deficits are meaningless. … This is exactly the situation with the USA, which issues its own currency. Always remember the image of a printing press in your house. Remember the simple difference between you and everyone else. You can print money. They cannot. Thus, “finances” means one thing for you, and a different thing for them. For you, “finances” are simply the money you print. For them, finances are complex and confusing.

>If you can print money, then you can never go bankrupt. Likewise, the USA can never go bankrupt.

>If you can print money, then you need not “live within your means,” since you have limitless means. Likewise, the US government has limitless means.

>If you can print money, then the terms “debt” and “deficit” are meaningless to you, but you use the terms anyway, in order to maintain your power. Likewise, the terms “debt” and “deficit” are meaningless to the US government, but bankers and politicians use the terms anyway, in order to maintain their power.

>If you can print money, then you have no need for tax revenue. Likewise, the US government has no need and no use for tax revenue (except to maintain the scam).

>If you can print money, then none of your neighbors will be poor unless you will it. Likewise, Medicare and Social Security can never go “broke” or insolvent unless the bankers and their friends will it.

WHY THE LIE?

The bankers, the politicians, and the One Percent want you to grovel before them. They constantly talk about economics, but their claims have nothing to do with economics. It’s all about power. That’s why they falsely claim that there is no money for social programs (but there is endless money for wars and bailouts). They falsely claim that the USA does not issue its own currency. They falsely claim that the US government is funded by tax revenue. They falsely claim that national finances are the same as personal finances. They falsely claim that the terms “debt” and “deficit” are applicable to federal finances.

For an individual, “debt” is money owed. For the U.S. government, “debt” is not a debt at all. It is simply money that people have invested in Treasury securities. It has nothing to do with taxes, or with the government’s ability to pay its bills. Nor does it threaten the USA with “bankruptcy.” (Remember, you can print money in your home.)

Although the terms “deficit” and “national debt” are meaningless at the national level, the corporate media repeats them a thousand times each day. This lets bankers maintain an artificial scarcity of money, so they can maintain their tyranny.

Each time you read or hear the words “deficit” and “national debt,” you are being lied to. The context does not matter. The subject does not matter. The source does not matter. When the words “deficit” and “national debt” appear, the rest of the article will be nothing but lies. Period. …”

John

#23 Crash Calaway on 08.15.12 at 12:47 am

Chad,

Dust off the Axe, beg the old band to regroup and go on the Road. Never look back. Better to burn out than a lifetime of listening to the in-law “Banjo” music coming from the other side of the duplex wall.

#24 FTP - First Time Poster on 08.15.12 at 12:49 am

This is such a raw deal you have to wonder if the in-laws arent heavy into S&M. Chad, will you have to wear a ball gag & nipple clamps when you sign the mortgage docs?

#25 Y is HWY 2 only two lanes ??? on 08.15.12 at 12:50 am

I’d get the parents to sign an agreement assuming their side of the risk.

Actually, I wouldn’t touch this crap offer with a 10 foot pool skimmer.

Tell the In-laws
you’re going to raise your child in a 13 foot scamper. (paid for – of course).

#26 rentin on 08.15.12 at 12:51 am

I would say buy it Chad. Only for purely selfish reasons of my own.

The longer people like you keep buying houses the bigger the crash (and the more it get’s postponed).

Gives me more time to save up cash for the days were money isn’t cheap, but the houses are.

You want to buy a house on sale or get a loan on sale?

#27 Gunboat Denier on 08.15.12 at 12:51 am

Chad – you have to treat this stuff all separately, just as if it’s arms-length. If the in-laws are so hot on this have them buy the duplex and you rent one side and pay MIL
for daycare. Not sure how to split that for highest tax benefit for both parties. Continue to save what you can. You can leave at any time if you have to, and ILs can sell at any time as well. Should ILs meet their demise(s) then asset would be split between your wife and BIL anyway, meaning you would each get one side of the duplex.

#28 Suede on 08.15.12 at 12:53 am

Suede was once a musician. Then he grew up, made some trades, got a job and got married.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/all-in/id428596079

#10 John in MTL, your joke holds true!

Why do people join bands? Money? No. Fame? Hopefully. Girls? Bingo. It works, unless you play keyboards or bass.

Just make sure your kid is not a drummer. They’re usually the screwed up ones, the rehearsals are always at your place, and they have to lug 4x more equipment than anyone else.

As for Chad…DON’T DO IT. The money = chains. Resist it unless you can get it for nothing in return. No strings. Listen to Russel Peters, “Be a man, do the right thing”

Even our blog author was a rocker!… “In the room, in the deal”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXaIAQjbD6I

As far as anthems go, i gotta give it to the Italians. Catchiest one.

#29 Vancouverite on 08.15.12 at 1:00 am

At least Chad is not paying $1 million for some stinking place in Vancouver.

“You spend $1 million on a house, you don’t want it to smell like fish.

Newman says this summer has been exceptionally bad for a problem that is normally limited to a few blocks.

“A lot of people are suddenly learning there’s a rendering plant in the neighbourhood,” she said.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/vancouver/Fishy+odour+East+Vancouver+caused+breakdown+rendering+plant/7090484/story.html

#30 Poorboy on 08.15.12 at 1:02 am

Dear Chad,

You are far more likely to be rid of the parents (natural causes. nothing sinister going on here) before you’ve paid off the 450k mortgage.

Your call.

Poorboy

#31 Soylent Green is People on 08.15.12 at 1:06 am

Lolololo re. Say, do you know ‘Stairway to Heavenand Regina

Good post good fun post

O

#32 Devore on 08.15.12 at 1:11 am

Chad, just come up with an elegant excuse for not doing business with family or friends. That’s a sound business decision right there.

#33 Bigbear on 08.15.12 at 1:16 am

Hey Garth, hope this Site permits some lowbrow humour for the retired rockers

Rock n roll jokes from an old road warrior… I actually played Fort McMurray in 84

Whadya call a guy who hangs with musicians?
A drummer

What’s the difference between a groupie and a washing machine?

DELETED

Keep the honest talk coming Garth, no mention of the CMHC news today?

#34 TimV on 08.15.12 at 1:20 am

Let me guess — their proceeds from selling their current home will be in the $300k range, but they need the $150k in equity from their own home for their own expenses?

And the free babysitting counts as their rent payment to you? Or was the free babysitting an addition to the rent payment that they would give you.

Property tax?

I assume at least they cover their own utility bills. Better make sure they do the babysitting on their side of the duplex, so at least you get free bathwater.

Scenario 1: prices double

Use $10k to buy a 200k home, net profit $200k.

Under their plan, net profit is 600/2=$300k.

Scenario 2: prices stay flat

No big difference, although renting is cheaper than owning since you will tend to rent the smallest home possible whereas buyers tend to buy the biggest home possible (more maintenence, property tax, etc).

Scenario 3: prices drop 50%

Use $10k, buy $200k home, loss is $100k.

Under their plan, loss is $300k. If you decide not to repay the $150k “gift”, then loss is only $150k.

Their plan of the century amplifies gains/losses relative to my 5% down purchase plan. Gain is amplified by $100k and loss is amplified by $200k. That’s rubbish.

This deal is so bad it is borderline abusive, it seems to me. Kindly suggest that they buy the duplex on their own and that you will rent half of the duplex from them. They even get to keep the profit when they sell. Don’t plan on an inheritance.

#35 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.15.12 at 1:35 am


“Her family is absolutely horrified that we are raising our child in a rental. We are constantly belittled by them and they are adamant that we buy something before “prices in Edmonton skyrocket”.” — Talk about interfering old busybodies! But smile warmly, nod your heads and run your own life the way you want to.

Eventually, they will get the hint.

#22 John in Mtl — “The bankers, the politicians, and the One Percent want you to grovel before them.” — Is that sentence ever true! Great post!
*
RE Joke of the Month See headline and try not to have your nostrils explode with delight; Owelympics And here they are — the British taxpayer on the hook again, and Jobs Where have they gone? UK Sick man of Europe; truth hammer — You’ll like this; Hired to be Fired Thatnks but no thanks,

Germany and France Sagging under their own weight? Banking and Insurance jobs Decline for 18 months in a row; Inflation Always around; Home sellers forced to cut prices; Employers facing make or break year; EZone DD; Jaguar Land Rover starting 24 x 7 shifts; Over 50 Joblessness soars; Abandoned Factories Plenty around; NAHB / Wells Fargo They may be on to something; Buffett’s BH Busy buying and selling; Paulson, Soros Buying more gold; Lxury Brands Resilient, to say the least, but here is the other side of the story; Japan Huge poverty gap; John Paulson and JPM Does he know something? Making Money the easy way.
*
Unknown sub Akin to the Chinese nuclear armed sub a couple of years ago, which surfaced within a mile of one of the US carriers. It was completely undetected, as the sub had a cloaking device on; Are You Embarrassed Easily? Shitterton, UK; Pot belly wind farm Man? No, monkey; Monsanto – In Living Color; Easier form of depop, as both militaries work in both countries; ObombaCare The Hidden Agenda.

#36 Click Here, its different on 08.15.12 at 1:39 am

Hey Chad, here’s a list of songs I listen too when I have the urge to buy.

Led Zeppelin – “Dazed & Confused”
Alice In Chains – “Would?”
Guns and Roses – “Paradise City”
Judas Priest – “Victim of Changes”
The Clash – “Should I Stay Or Should I Go”
The Animals, “We Gotta Get Out of This Place”
The Kinks – “You Really Got Me”
Dream Theater – “Pull Me Under”
Van Halen – “Ain’t Talkin’ Bout Love”
The Cult – “Love Removal Machine”
The Who – “Won’t Get Fooled Again”
Beck – “Loser”

#37 Freedom First on 08.15.12 at 1:44 am

Chad, I am living the dream, while you are facing my worst nightmare. I can’t thank you enough for writing Garth. I am even more elated for my life.

Chad, listen to Garth, or you will have your life force and all of the joy in life destroyed, as you will be living a nightmare beyond your immediate ability to comprehend right now. I see the preceding blog dogs concur with me, as written in their own words. It is unanimous. RUUUNNN!

#38 vangrrl on 08.15.12 at 1:51 am

That was very, very, funny.
‘Outside of parts of Regina’ and the bit about the dark side… Garth, I think you outdid yourself again.

#39 Daniel on 08.15.12 at 1:52 am

Chad, take the deal.

However, there has to be a stipulation since you think prices are going down and they think up.

If prices have not increased by at least 15% in 5 years they forgo their $150k … plus, they pay rent of $1000 per month – which comes off the 150k. (they don’t need to give you cash).

Plus the brother doesn’t get anything – why would he?

#40 Sask Girl on 08.15.12 at 1:53 am

I can`t believe this guy is even contemplating this. Run Chad, run!! Proposals from in-laws involving money are bad 99% of the time. Sounds like they are just using you for their own benefit and her bother`s. There`s nothing wrong with renting. You were a rocker. You of all people should be a free spirit, unshakeable by the pressures of society. Don`t become one of `them`.

#41 ANONYMOUS on 08.15.12 at 1:55 am

In that photo of that guy bending over and drinking the girl’s drink; WOW, he’s in for a shock soon. See, the guy kissing the girl, he put a ‘DATE RAPE DRUG’ into her drink, now the OTHER guy is drinking it, and will he ever be surprised when he wakes up !

#42 Coho on 08.15.12 at 1:57 am

Hey Chad, you sound like a good guy. From my experience musicians are pretty easy going and you are probably a ‘deer in the headlights’ in this developing situation.

It sounds to me that your in-laws are more about control and serving themselves rather than good intentions…probably a mix of both. If they feel house prices are going to rise then why are they selling theirs? What are they going to do when your child starts going to school and the child care gig is over? Are you to sell the house regardless of whether its value has gone up or down? What if you want to sell and they don’t? What if they want to sell and you don’t? If you sell, will you upgrade and get into a bigger mortgage? What about your in-laws? Are they going to rent or are they going to buy another house after house prices have ‘sky rocketed’ as they expect? It doesn’t make much sense to me. This idea sounds impulsive and unwise. Why don’t they take out a HELOC and lend you the money for a down payment and you and your wife decide what to buy and where?

Be very careful. Garth is right on. Don’t make such deals with family – it will make things complicated and most likely cause problems and hard feelings. A simple 50/50 partnership is risky enough, let alone what they’ve presented with the BIL thrown into the mix for good measure! It sounds like the in-laws are gaga over their grandchild, which is understandable, but they need to step back, take a breath and get a grip.

If they are ‘horrified’ that you are raising a baby in a rental and that you owe the lil one a $600K real estate investment, I shudder to think of what they feel you and your wife will owe them if the ‘deal of the century’ goes south.

I think it is great that the MIL will baby sit when mom goes back to work, but does it need to come with a duplex and a 600K mill stone around your neck? Couldn’t you drop off the lil one at her place on your way to work? Yeah, I know…it’s too simple.

Things have a way of not going as planned, particularly long term plans and especially in this situation. What if mom doesn’t want to go back to work? What if house prices go down and the in-laws want their money and you are pressured to sell at a loss?

Meddling and control is always presented as caring and helping out. You have your family and I assume a happy marriage despite your ‘horrific’ rental situation. My advice is that you and your wife proceed at your own pace. Be your own man. Raise your family as you see fit, just as your in-laws did when they had their kids. These types of deals have strings attached…seen and unseen…and certain expectations that go with them. Leave well enough alone, my man.

#43 Partner on 08.15.12 at 2:06 am

Looking for partners for lucrative interweb company. Here is the business plan:

1) I lend you $1,000
2) You borrow $4,500 from the loan shark to buy us tickets to an all-inclusive to Aruba
3) You set up a website and sell our vacation photos to interweb users (i hear they pay tonns of money for other peoples dreams)
4) You give me half the profits

Win, win.

Oh, after lounging in the sun doing nothing on my dime, when will you be planning to pay me aback that $1,000?

#44 Click Here, its different on 08.15.12 at 2:06 am

A quick playlist for all actual owners who bought in the last 5 years :

B.B. King – “The Thrill Is Gone”
John Lee Hooker – “Boom Boom”
Freddie King – “Im Tore Down”
B.B. King – “It’s My Own Fault”
Lightnin’ Hopkins – “Cryin’ Shame”
B.B. King – “Everyday I Have The Blues”
Howlin’ Wolf – “How Many More Years”

Great songs.

#45 From kits on 08.15.12 at 2:11 am

150k..that’s enough to pay off your debts in a couple years.

get your sh&t together..are these scenario’s for real?

#46 Buy? Curious? on 08.15.12 at 2:13 am

Learn how to stand up to the outside pressures of buying a home, especially from family. Communicate how important your values are. Don’t be subtle. Use examples of how past decisions you’ve made have been successful for you.

Here, I have the perfect example, bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC75tfjiaX0

#47 Dr.NickRiviera on 08.15.12 at 2:19 am

But, but… here in Edmonton we have oil refineries and oil and oil related industries and the world’s 7th largest mall.

“It’s different here!”™

#48 truth hammer on 08.15.12 at 2:30 am

Wait just a minute…..who’s the sucking vampire here? Lets first focus on the fact that we have two soulless trough sucking vampires leaching off the taxpayer in their roles as ‘daywalkers’ for the civil servant clan of unionized bloodsuckers.

Since both these clowns will get more pay and benefits than 85% of all Canadians and then be diapered until death in a gluttonous pension also paid by the public trough these two idiots should be fine being stupid enough to climb into bed with their sand flea relatives because neither of these two parasites will ever pay a dime out of their own pockets……it’s the taxpayer that will end up paying for all their financial mistakes.

And yet they sound so entitled to live among the living…..such is the arrogance that was bred into the unions by the mindbending dictatorship of the Liberals. They think we owe them a living and that we should be happy that they suck the life out of the tax revenues collected for things like schools , hospitals and sheltering the elderly.

#49 Oceanside on 08.15.12 at 2:43 am

That is the worst offer, NEVER buy property with friends or relatives, I did once 35 years ago…..BIG mistake, keep your in-laws as friends and family, not business partners.

#50 Fritz on 08.15.12 at 2:50 am

Don’t do it.

I bought in Edmonton in early 1981 (what can I say, I was young and inexperienced and believed the hype about priced out forever). We paid 150k. About three months later we couldn’t have sold the same house for 90k. Edmonton crashes badly.

Just wait a couple of years for the real price correction to take hold. Besides, buy your own place, not something with the in laws next door. You’d regret that pretty quickly.

#51 Aaron - Melbourne on 08.15.12 at 3:01 am

Hi Chad,

Sounds like topsy-turvy emotional blackmail from a meddling MIL.

Her emotional histronics are no match for your financial logic.

As to both the loan and the constant “belittlement” what are the likely repurcussions for putting a stop to it by saying a resounding and unequivocal:

NO WAY GET F^#KED F^#K OFF

#52 JW on 08.15.12 at 3:24 am

Chad ! Want to be a rebel again? Rent. Every disco Joe and Jill Schmo is buying into this craziness. Be cool again and rent….Rock on.

#53 Rob the Dividend Trader on 08.15.12 at 5:08 am

Dude, you’re on the WRONG blog, find a good PF blogger and learn how to manage your money, get out debt and get a decent bank account and then think about buying a house!!!!!

And yes in this case Garth is right!!!!

#54 Tony on 08.15.12 at 5:33 am

The first problem in Edmonton is trying to sell a house. It could be at least several decades before you even get one offer even after dropping the selling price some fifty percent or more. As we’ve seen prices have been dropping since the summer of 2007 and will continue to drop every year indefinitely. Renting in the only thing that makes sense in Edmonton.

#55 Deb on 08.15.12 at 6:06 am

Combining an emotional asset (the house) with an emotional tinderbox (the family) and rolling the dice?
There is danger.

#56 Beach Girl on 08.15.12 at 6:20 am

Sounds like the family has found a way to dispose of this son in law.

Marriage, just the word makes me shudder, is hard enough. Imagine coming home from some hell hole of a job, to the loving arms of this crowd. Plus a baby, then you need a spare heir to keep the other one company. He will be in a real shit storm. He may as well give half his paycheck now and bail.

Nothing is free, babysitting especially. What right minded person over 50 would lumber themselves with the task of looking after grandchildren, unless they had no life at all and want to live vicariously through their feeble minded children.

I wouldn’t have even wanted to come home to my own parents, if I had any. And I liked them.

When this couple argue, as everyone does, she has the largest audience, till Junior loses his rag, and bolts. Poor bastard. Good morning. This has been a epic summer.

#57 John on 08.15.12 at 6:53 am

Chad-Garth wrote:

“We are constantly belittled by them and they are adamant that we buy something…..
—-
Yeah, but if they don’t like it, they don’t need to visit. No visit, no belittling. No parental horror. No pressure to buy. Besides, you have no money.”
_____________________________

I think your article today is truly entertaining. Great writing.

However, you don’t seem to have a good grasp of what’s going on in this situation…and in Canada. Let me explain why.

Would you think Chad’s problem is his lack of money? Debt? Buying in at the top of the “market”? Making “deals” with the “family of his wife”?

No.

I wish it weren’t true…that the real estate debacle and it’s plug in to the world stage didn’t actually mean what it means.

But it does.

In Vancouver’s East side, Gabor Mate takes in using heroin addicts in the Portland Hotel. He has written a book about it. In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts.

It’s a book about Chad and his codependent family system. Heroin is a much better marker because it “takes out” the person completely, but the codependency in a 20-60 person system is IDENTICAL. And the rehab programs are a copy. Step for step.

It’s just that the banking cartels are in the way of the “unmanageability” right now. They are covering reality as they collude to partner with addict nation ( Canadian codependency).

Chad’s identity is gone ( starting with his gender), and he’s without limits. Like the dynamics of the real estate bubble and world stage.

Not addiction? Yes it is. The whole thing is steeped in denial. The bankers are the instruments to give away power and control to. Nobody is awake in the family. All feed off of the chaos.

The “moral highground”? The “baby”. It TRULY has no limits and is being violated to carry the whole mess.

That’s the culture. Chad’s case is just more obvious. But look at the denial. Is the bubble obvious to Canadians? The world stage it’s plugged into?

A best seller was written about it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0894864025

#58 Q on 08.15.12 at 7:00 am

Is Chad actually sure that he’s an envirotech…sounds to me like he’s on the federal budget committee.

“One of them is never, ever invest in a property with anyone you haven’t slept with. That normally means (outside of parts of Regina, of course), brothers, mothers and fathers-in-law.”….Garth, Regina?…when was the last time you were at the Oakville Cub?

#59 X on 08.15.12 at 7:08 am

Hilarious. You are 100% responsible for the mortgage/debt, but get 1/2 the profits. Doesn’t sound fair does it.

Chad, you are smarter than them. You know you shouldn’t be buying at this time.

#60 Julia on 08.15.12 at 7:09 am

OMG Garth that was worth the wait! Hilarious! I don’t know whether to come to you for financial advice or a writing workshop.

#61 just learning on 08.15.12 at 7:16 am

OMG!!! Stable market forecast for BC

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/business/story.html?id=7090419

Mr. Turner… This is CMHC !

#62 Mike Rotch on 08.15.12 at 7:35 am

#29 Vancouverite on 08.15.12 at 1:00 am
At least Chad is not paying $1 million for some stinking place in Vancouver………….
“A lot of people are suddenly learning there’s a rendering plant in the neighbourhood,” she said.

OK, like, who the frig is stupid enough to sign up for a lifetime of servicing a $1M mortgage without even looking at a google map, and taking a stroll and a drive through the neighbourhood???

#63 Nubbers on 08.15.12 at 7:41 am

‘We are constantly belittled by them’.

Chad, if the inlaws live next door, you are going to get it even worse. Those kind of people will always find something to pick on.

#64 tri state pat on 08.15.12 at 7:52 am

Chad,

A majority of family deals involving the transfer of wealth/real estate are with family farms. As an observer on A LOT of those deals, nine times out of ten it does not work out very well. Most of the time the members end up fighting (at best) or not talking to each other for years. The perception that the deal was not fair for one reason or another lingers, and can have serious repercussions on the family. Life is too short to live like that. In a toxic environment in which the real estate industry is in right now and the fact that there is a noticeable “inflection point” evident in many Canadian cities right now, I would lay low for a while and educate myself on what type of house/neighbourhood you would want to be in maybe two years…

#65 TurnerNation on 08.15.12 at 7:56 am

Doubt it. Albertans are too “thick headed”, won’t listen to perceived Easterners or “Liberals”. I hope he has enough left loan money over for a F150 Harley edition for the driveway.

#66 dd on 08.15.12 at 7:56 am

“….They would live in one side…

LOL. Full Stop. I didn’t need to read more.

Very very bad investment.

#67 DH on 08.15.12 at 7:57 am

I think sometimes we give too much credit that parents are more knowledgeable than us.

#68 TurnerNation on 08.15.12 at 7:58 am

Is everybody named Chad out west?

No, there’s also Jim Bob and Billy Ray. And Socks. — Garth

#69 █ ♣ █ RENTER - REDEMPTION on 08.15.12 at 8:04 am

I Agree with # 47 100%

These two Herb inhalers are actually allowed to borrow
thousands of dollars for “blitz education” and ended up with 140K annual income !!!
and now they want to borrow more to split profit with half brain brother who is in 350K debt…

Waitafrigginminute – what education did they get?
Their actions are very educated we can see!

I owe nothing to anyone! ZERO debt and some saving and i rent.
my redemption is that i am an idiot who rents slum
and Chad & Chada are winners because they unloaded their debt to ALL OF US !!!!!

And you people are helping them with advices?

CHAD, GO SUCKER, GO FOR IT ! YOU DESERVE THIS
Like Stephanie and Her macho, like idiot Specker
all other Garth’s hopeless cases, who came to this Sanatorium.

#70 Paully on 08.15.12 at 8:40 am

If they are really “horrified” by you raising your child in a <> rental, then tell them to buy you a big house to live in, and let them pay all the mortgage, taxes, maintenance, etc.

THEY are the ones with the problem with the rental! Let them solve it 100% on their dime, or they can shut up about it.

For the record, even if they did buy you a house and pay everything, it would still suck because it would destroy your independence. Fortunately, it is not likely to happen. “Money talks and BS walks.”

#71 Contrarian on 08.15.12 at 8:44 am

Chad, the worst part of the deal is that they aren’t paying rent.

Let’s assume that for a mortgage of 600K, you’d be paying about $3000/month. To live in a 300K semi, you’re paying an extra $750 (The mortgage for 450K is $2250 vs the mortgage for 300K is $1500) out of your pocket that you wouldn’t need to if you’d just bought the semi instead of the whole house.

Not to mention the fact that you’re doubling your risk through leverage at the top of the market.

Are her parents worth $750/month plus all that risk for their babysitting?

Keep renting for now, bro.

#72 Susan from London area on 08.15.12 at 9:23 am

Oh my gosh Chad they are already belittling and your not living on the same property? Holy you take on all the risk and the brother in law receives half the profit? Will he be doing half the work? Will he be contributing to half the maintenance or improvement expenses? When he sells his $350k home will you receive half the profit of that sale? Like the dragons would say I’m Out!
Man this one really pizzed me off got me to the core.

#73 MB on 08.15.12 at 9:30 am

Dear Chad,

This is fantastic!!! You can screw your in-laws and your BIL and they’ll never want to have anything to do with you again if you follow these simple steps:

1. Buy both sides for 600k with In-laws 150k donation (leaves a 450k mortgage)

2. Immediately flip houses for 100k to a BAND MATE on the condition that your In-laws get to live in one side rent free (leaves 350k debt)

3. COLLECT 250k from BIL (his half of the 500k LOSS leaving you a 100k debt)

4. Get BAND MATE to kick In-laws out and give you title to the In-laws half of the duplex once the deal is completed. (leaves a 100k mortgage secured by the 300k value of your half of the duplex).

Summary… BIL loses 250k and rich-BIL bragging rights. In-laws lose 150k and busybody-babbysitting rights. You get 200k equity in your 300k home allowing you to potentially consolidate your debt, send the kid to private school of rock daycare, and party hardy with your wife, kid and BAND MATE all night long each and every night in your shared driveway to rearranged rock ballads like:

“Unchained (from the in-laws) Melody”,
“He Ain’t Wealthy He’s My Brother-In-Law”,
“Imagine (there’s no naggin’)”, and
“Stairway to Solvency”

You get the idea. Have fun!

Sincerely,
MB

#74 disciple on 08.15.12 at 9:44 am

Seems there are plenty of math-challenged people out there. I was in a store and the guy in front of me was told by the guy at the auto parts desk that he could no longer offer the 50% off 2 items deal, but could offer the 25% off of 1 item deal and that if he purchased two it would be the same discount. I had to chime in and correct them, but was ganged up on by a nearby trio of employees who said it was the same discount, and then asked me to write it down. I said, “No, just give me my damn oil filter because I already passed math”.

The dumbing-down is complete. That’s why almost nobody knows that the King of Spain is Paul Newman, or that Guillermo del Toro is really Michael Moore. Did you guys enjoy my post on Buffett and Cleese?

#75 neo on 08.15.12 at 9:46 am

And so it begins…

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/home-sales-steady-in-july-prices-down-2-crea/article4482076/

#76 Lilyflor on 08.15.12 at 9:47 am

Run! No doubt your inlaws feel they are helping your amily but that is the worst possible arrangement ever, on so many levels. I hope you are more financially savvy than your in laws!

You will be shouldering all the risk, all the debt and then you have to split the profits? Wow!!

So your In laws are helping you with your current debt by having you incur more debt? Helping you would be an interest free loan to pay off your current debt, low cost babysitting for their grandchild and not living to close to them.

I can only speak from experience.

#77 Toronto_CA on 08.15.12 at 9:50 am

CREA reporting price declines of 2%. Vancouver is skewing everything with “big declines”. Why do they get everything first? Lucky.

Let the slow, long melt begin.

#78 armpit on 08.15.12 at 9:53 am

Vancouver average home price drop 12 % in July from a year ago.

#79 earlybird on 08.15.12 at 9:56 am

Why buy at the top of a cycle? If you choose this moment in time to buy, that will be your shelter expense for the next 25 yrs. Why overpay and take all the risk? You would have to live 10 years after the mortage is paid off, to justify the interest you paid on that loan compared to renting. From the parents point of view, I can see why they think the way they do, they have probably owned for decades, and naturally conclude that real estate is a wealth builder. Not so much going forward….Owning is an illusion, stop paying property taxes and you find out quick who really owns your home….If you guys have a wonderful family dynamic, and could live side by side, wouldnt you just move in to their existing basement and pay off that debt!!! A thin duplex wall is not much of a parental buffer zone….

#80 Jenna on 08.15.12 at 10:02 am

Garth do you have kids? Is that why you are so bitter?

Where did I say anything bitter? Being a parent and an idiot are mutually exclusive. — Garth

#81 neo on 08.15.12 at 10:04 am

For those keeping score at home. This is now the third month in a row the average price in Canada is down YOY.

#82 Can it be? on 08.15.12 at 10:04 am

Omg run chad. This will only get worse not better. Sigh… I remember what it felt like to be in a similar
Situation. Whatever you do, don’t let
The inlaws have any control in your life. Once that relationship goes sour, it’s very hard to repair. You may lose your wife and kid in the process.. Continue renting… Find affordable day care… And use the MIL sparingly. Pay off your debts… Better opportunities are in the future. Play a little game with your wife. Calculate your costs of your inlaws plan… And try to live on this lifestyle they are proposing. You will quickly realize renting is the better option.

#83 Dupcheck on 08.15.12 at 10:08 am

Think more about it. If your gut says you are not comfortable with it. Do not go for it. Move on, save some money and wait for the prices to come down. Do not be a slave to family member either by taking their money. They will always nag you by reminding who gave you that money. Mind your own business.

#84 HHR on 08.15.12 at 10:10 am

You know how people lost jobs right front center in 2008, it was not their fault. It is the same for people that now days can not afford to buy a decent home, because the prices do not reflect reality of wages. It is not the peoples fault. This is a new reality. Give it time.

#85 KingBubbles on 08.15.12 at 10:12 am

Chad Dude –

Politely decline the offer. There is not enought lipstick in the world to make that pig acceptable.

I am sure you are capable of finding your own solution that is right for you and your wife (most importantly)

#86 EdmontonJim on 08.15.12 at 10:13 am

I’m not sure Edmonton is WAAAY overpriced, but it is not going to skyrocket by any means.

Edmonton is not running out of space, and the location of all those new refineries are NE of the City, barely developed and so far away from the overbuilt SW that it will have the same effect on prices as the price of tea in China.

My advice to Chad is to move to the opposite side of the City as his inlaws. It is amazing what a half-hour drive will do.

#87 Palmer on 08.15.12 at 10:18 am

ok seriously WTF is wrong with Kia’s? Almost every other post you through Kia’s under the bus. Oh and what’s wrong with Costco now? You can save a lot of money there if your smart compared to other stores, but yeah most people who shop there don’t seem to look at price much and are 200 pounds overweight. Bulk food for Bulk people I suppose. Last time I was there I almost got my arm ripped off by a fatty barging across me to stuff her face with samples…..can be dangerous.

#88 Nopal on 08.15.12 at 10:19 am

Chad, you are sooo screwed.

And this country is full of Chads.

Canada is screwed, but since most of the people are financially illiterate, they can’t see it.

And it will hit like a nasty hockey style sucker punch. And the idiots will (maybe) learn.

Live and learn. It’s not different here. It never was.

Pathetic.

#89 Just Looking on 08.15.12 at 10:37 am

I’ll add a couple more things to the wary calls here:

1. It is never okay for your inlaws to belittle you. You need to address this head on, or it will never end.

2. I’ve seen a couple of friends arrange MIL daycare. Neither arrangement has lasted long. Grandkids are fun. Until they become a full time job. You will start hearing grumbles about how your MIL can no longer meet friends for lunch dates. When will she get a hair appointment? Time for herself? You need to calculate the risk of needing to get daycare anyways if your MIL quits her job because it is too stressful. This is a high risk, especially in cultures where most of her peers won’t be doing the same gig.

#90 Djb on 08.15.12 at 10:38 am

How about the gall of the boomer parents? Making sure they structure their affairs to their best advantage.

#91 Canadian Watchdog on 08.15.12 at 10:41 am

Just Released: CREA Home Sales Statistics For July: http://creanews.ca/2012/08/

National home price declines by 2% y/y, composite benchmark up 4.5%.

Notice the average price collapsing faster then HPI. http://creanews.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/english-chart.png

That’s why CREA invented it.

#92 Sherwood Park on 08.15.12 at 10:42 am

“When the prices soar due to all the upcoming refinery projects ” ???

I’ve lived in the area for 6 years and if I got a dime everytime I heard that I could buy a whole barrel of oil.

#93 Ken on 08.15.12 at 10:49 am

Chad, what have you done to your inlaws? They must really dislike you to conceive a plan like this one.

#94 Herb on 08.15.12 at 11:06 am

#48 Truth Hammerer,

I love it when your vituperation gets lyrical. It’s so revealing. Keep up the good work.

#95 Spiltbongwater on 08.15.12 at 11:12 am

Chad, I had the same problem as you with my wifes parents belittleing us for renting. I slept with my wifes sister, and now don’t have that problem anymore. Chad, does your wife have a sister? If not, sleep with your mother in law, or your wifes cousin, aunt?, and they will not belittle you for renting anymore.

#96 John in Mtl on 08.15.12 at 11:27 am

@Suede on 08.15.12 at 12:53 am Wrote:

“Why do people join bands? Money? No. Fame? Hopefully. Girls? Bingo. It works, unless you play keyboards or bass.”

Uh oh… I play keyboards, part time :)

John

#97 OlderbutWiser on 08.15.12 at 11:41 am

#22 John in Mtl – a fine point that you seem to miss – if you have a printing press in your house and you use it to excess, then no one is going to take your money. It becomes worthless. Ditto for the gov’t. There are implications to excess debt and money printing. It is called inflation and currency debasement. Just ask the Germans. The US is somewhat protected since the USD is the reserve currency – but this can change. Do not fool yourself.

#98 Bailing in BC on 08.15.12 at 11:46 am

Start by asking the brother to pay half of the overhead property tax, maintenance, insurance and city utilities then watch the whole deal go sideways

#99 zeeman1 on 08.15.12 at 11:48 am

Uhh, doesn’t “Environmental Engineer” mean Chad’s just a janitor in government-speak?

#100 truth hammer on 08.15.12 at 12:08 pm

So…the civil servants that design the education system to be politically correct and provide no fundamental foundations in acadenic skills are accusing kids of being lazy and think Asian’s are smarter? What nonsense.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/14/kids-should-work-harder-like-asians-coalition-avenir-quebec-leader-francois-legault/

The educators in Canada have chosen to make education a political football for Liberal ideology and union brainwashing. The teachers set a bad example by their own behaviour…they doo not focus on academics rather they have designed an education around ‘self esteem’ and ‘feeling good’…….a system where bullying awareness has taken precedence over the basic reason why the institions exist. In Asia there is a far greater emphasis on education as opposed to socialization and thats why kids there score higher on basic skills tests….not because they are smarter or more hard working.

The union wankers will never admit that they are the problem in education.

Try my suggestion where we invite the better educated teachers from India to teach at Canadian schools for a few years as guest workers. I’ll bet that the rankings of Canadian kids would improve dramatically when taking the unions out and putting teaching first.

And why do the Franco phony seperatists always express themselves as wacko rascists during an election campaign? You really get the heebie jeebies about ever investing in Quebec. Once in power you would always be expecting another ‘Crystalnacht’ event with these boobs at the helm.

Our only option in Canada is to support the private schools…..I did and the result was far and away better than any public school can do. Of course the techers unions fight against this knowledge being widely accepted by the public. Whenever the Fraser Institute publishes the success stats the BCTF sets their hair on fire.

Bottom line is…..kids everywhere are the same….it’s the Liberal and socialist parents that screw them up and drag them down in Canada by and large.

#101 Gunboat Denier on 08.15.12 at 12:24 pm

74 disciple – it was obviously 50% off the second item ie same deal for two items at 25% off. Maybe you’re
listening challenged.

#102 DM in C on 08.15.12 at 12:26 pm

Jenna, what are you implying? That people need kids so they’re not bitter?

That inference says a lot more about you than anything else.

Judgmental twat.

#103 jesslyn on 08.15.12 at 12:29 pm

When I was in my mid 20’s my bf’s parents offered us $25000 down on a house. I immediately felt that they were trying to manipulate me into marrying their son or some crazy scheme. Being their slave DIL was not on my agenda. I broke up with him a couple of weeks later.

#104 Victor on 08.15.12 at 12:34 pm

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-home-sales-flat-july-june-131925887–business.html

The data showed sales and prices cooling in Toronto and Vancouver, two of the country’s hottest markets.

Vancouver prices were down 12.2 percent year-on-year.

The latest statistics were the first since the government tightened mortgage rules last month in an effort to rein in the market.

“Some first-time home buyers may have difficulty qualifying for mortgage financing due to shortened amortization periods included in recent changes to mortgage regulations,” said Gregory Klump, CREA’s chief economist.

“As the lynchpin of the housing market, lower first-time buying activity will have knock-on effects over the rest of the market. It will likely take more time for move-up buyers to sell their current home.”

CREA President Wayne Moen said the data released on Wednesday confirms expectations that the new mortgage rules would temper sales and prices in Greater Toronto and Greater Vancouver.

#105 Victor on 08.15.12 at 12:36 pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/listing-chill-hits-vancouver-housing-market/article4482381/

Canada’s housing market looks to be moderating in many parts of the country, but there’s one place that requires a stronger word.

In Vancouver, market metrics are painting a picture of sharp correction.

Average home prices have fallen 12.4 per cent in Vancouver over the past year, according to the Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA). Unit sales are also way down, showing a 38 per cent decline since February 2011, according to Toronto-Dominion Bank economist Francis Fong.

#106 Jane on 08.15.12 at 12:38 pm

Chad you need to learn something about boundaries. If you take this deal, what example are you setting for your kid? What advice would you give your kid if they were in your shoes?
Stay renting and keep your dignity. The next time the family start belittling you, get up, say goodbye politely and walk out. Or say goodbye and hang up. Just don’t get into it with them. And don’t buy anything with their money. Bad idea, really bad.

#107 House Horny Housewife on 08.15.12 at 12:45 pm

Garth,

Thanks for the big laugh today. I LOVED the answer you gave Chad. BRAVO !

And how in heaven’s name does this brother enter into things ? If the parents are selling their house and giving them $150,000.00 then they should simply give the brother the same amount and be done with it.

At best, if Chad wants to take advantage of the free babysitting services (no small thing), the parents should go ahead and sell their house and then THEY should buy the duplex with their own 150K downpayment. Then they can rent one of the units to their offspring, with a legally binding lease. Even this is risky, especially if there is any trouble, but if they end up in a court of law, the rental contract would be clear and the only thing they would lose is their friendship with the in-laws and the free babysitting .. not their shirts.

Wow, Chad, are you on the midst of getting yourself into a HUGE mess by mixing family with business. BIG mistake. If things go awry, you will lose your finances AND your wife and family all at once. Think long and hard and then do the right thing .. run like hell. The in-laws have absolutely no business telling you what to do and the sooner you put your foot down, the better. If you let them walk all over you, it won’t end there, believe me. After that it will your poor child that is in play so toe the line NOW.

HHHW

#108 Arthur on 08.15.12 at 12:55 pm

#20 jsan

There is absolutely zero evidence that shows cold fusion is real. That website is total junk. I wish it was possible but so far there is no theory or working devices that outside scientists can look at. Cold fusion posters are worse than gold bugs!

#109 Coquitlam Resident on 08.15.12 at 1:02 pm

I live on Burke Mountain in North West Coquitlam, and prices haven’t been dropping at all. In fact, lots and townhouses are getting snapped up all around me. Across the street from me, the next phase of a townhouse development is selling for about 10K more than the previous identical phase that sold out this year. I see that some 40% are already sold out and its not even opened yet.

I think a combination of beautiful mountain scenery, more affordable, better valued property, and the coming infrastructural improvements (skytrain), combined with the coming of 3 new schools and a pedestrian oriented village are all factors sustaining upwards pressure in this part of the Lower Mainland.

I think property is definitely regional and better valued in some areas. If you are going to get a place, don’t buy a dump/crackhouse/fixer upper, buy something you at least love coming home to each day!

#110 Derek R on 08.15.12 at 1:03 pm

#97 OlderbutWiser on 08.15.12 at 11:41 am wrote:
if you have a printing press in your house and you use it to excess, then no one is going to take your money. It becomes worthless. Ditto for the gov’t. There are implications to excess debt and money printing. It is called inflation and currency debasement.

That’s easily fixed. Instead of giving people the money, lend it to them for a year. Oh, and charge 5% interest. So if you lend 200 people $10,000 each ($2,000,000 in total) they have to pay you back $10,500 each ($2,100,000 in total) . And they can’t because you only printed $2,000,000.

But now comes the sneaky part. Print another $100,000 dollars and use that for your personal spending money. That will allow the 200 borrowers to pay you back $2,100,000. But it won’t cause inflation because it all ends up back in your safe. So you can repeat the trick next year. And it’s even less work then because you don’t have to print anything.

Of course the difficult part is getting the licence to print money. But some people manage. We call them bankers.

Who said there’s no such thing as a free lunch?

#111 Glen on 08.15.12 at 1:04 pm

Chad: no way to sugar-coat here, this is a terrible idea.

You need to tactfully kill this idea without delay. And you might consider moving farther away, not closer.

#112 DDLama on 08.15.12 at 1:23 pm

Never go into business with your family. I split a house with my sister 15 years ago and she took me to the cleaners for $45,000. If you borrow from your family have an agreement in place. If money is a gift from your family, then have that in writing too. This is coming from someone who lost her sister over money and today my father is suing me for a gift ($) to help me pay down my mortgage 8.5 years ago. You cannot go through life looking over your shoulder and strange things happen to families when money is involved.

#113 Troy McClure on 08.15.12 at 1:30 pm

“Her family refers to this as the deal of the century”

Yes – for them. This is about control. They will be next door, they will have “lent” you $150k, you will have the mortgage.

This will be the beginning of massive interference from them in your life. How you maintain your house, how you raise your kid, “why don’t you shovel our driveway since we lent you $150k?”, etc. If push comes to shove, you’ll have no leverage.

#114 Lee on 08.15.12 at 1:33 pm

Canadian home prices falling steadily

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/08/15/canadian-home-prices-falling-steadily/

#115 Realtors don't like realtors either.... on 08.15.12 at 1:34 pm

Vancouver taxpayers… The best place on earth, robbed again.. by the LieBerals….
Why work when you can get severance pay, see below…

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1756330#comments

Back in Vancouver, the BPOEites are filling up 5 gerry can’s in Bellingham costco, and pissing them off.
We aren’t different here, we are 3rd world… no jobs, no money, and drive 1 hr to buy cheap gas and milk, as this is a resort town.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/08/12/bc-bellingham-costco-canadians.html

Shame on ZIRP and Heloc – copter ben.. we can’t afford to live here anymore…
Thanks Cam Good

#116 Ry on 08.15.12 at 1:40 pm

So, no comment on CMHC’s latest pronouncement from on high? Are they worried? Delusional? Dense? All of the above?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/cmhc-forecasts-slowdown-in-housing-market/article4480017/

#117 dangeresque2 on 08.15.12 at 1:51 pm

#70 Paully – totally agree

I’ve owned real estate with family (…which made me move to Edmonton!) And then owned real estate here in the declining Edmonton market (it suuuucked).

I survived each separately, but interesting to hear from Chad how he handles both at the same time! :)

#118 gladiator on 08.15.12 at 1:53 pm

excuse me, disciple, but being mathematically challenged myself, I’d like to challenge your numbers.
Say something costs 100$ and if you buy a second item for 50% off, you pay 150$ for both. Now, say you get 25% off for each of the 2 items you buy => you pay 75$ + 75$ = 150$. Or maybe I didn’t understand the conditions of the sale…

#119 John on 08.15.12 at 2:03 pm

Lilyflor wrote:

“Run! No doubt your inlaws feel they are helping your family but that is the worst possible arrangement ever, on so many levels. I hope you are more financially savvy than your in laws!”
——-

In my opinion your comment doesn’t reflect reality at all. “Helping”? The in-laws aren’t interested in that at all. This is an addict family with frozen roles. It’s an identity crisis ( a healthy identity is natural and flexible).

The in-laws need a “bad man” to deflect all the crap to. What better role than “victim, little boy”? Ex rock and roller has a “forced legitimacy” with the kid, so now they go in for the kill. It’s just positioning.

“I hope you are more financially saavy than your in-laws”. Huh? This has zero to do with finances. It has to do with chaos. If you can find a scapegoat ( the castrated lonely male), create a triangle ( the baby) and then plant a bomb ( financial is most convenient), voila. Whatever secrets and pains of the generations just got shifted.

It’s a system.

I think what people are failing to realize is how simple all of this is. Don’t think “Chad”, think society. Don’t think real estate, think power logistics.

Over and over it comes back to the same damn thing. The man has no balls, does what family, society, “partner”(?) tells him, and then fulfills the role of screw-up. Victim. Impotent.

This “I’m sure the in-laws want what’s best for the family” is a giant, steaming load of crap. Having said that, we are talking about addiction. The in-laws are surely sick and in denial.

They have the entire media industry, the government, “community” , family, “friends”, bankers and world power brokers behind them.

The mother-in-law ( who is surely brokering the death ray of emotions behind this one) is likely “tearfully concerned” about her family.

She ( and of course the system she’s a part of) is just a suffering addict…far away from recovery, and generating chaos from the unfelt pain.

The “economic” mess we’re in is no joke. I wonder if this is starting to sink in at a deeper level across Canadian society.

#120 house burden on 08.15.12 at 2:04 pm

#104 Victor on 08.15.12 at 12:34 pm

===========================

Vancouver 12% drop in prices is painting the real picture.

The low interest rates had allowed people like Chad (or worst) to buy houses. Now that they can’t buy the Vancouver housing market has “FLATLINED”.

Now we truly know that HAM has been busted by the Myth-Busters. Its was just an illusion of oriental Canadian on a feeding frenzy over real estate.

BTW chad, its simple math the housing market will deflate and flatline for the next 3 to 10 years (even more) . You have 10,000 save but your really 70,000 in the hole. Although you make 150,000 every year, after taxes your really have
– 75,000 (@approxiately 50%)
or approxiately 6000 per month

Cost of living
– service 80,000 existing debt (200)
– rent (2,000)
– food (1,000)
– utility (100)
-entertainment (500)
– gas (for 2 cars) 400
Other expenses such as insurance and misc (200)
Other wants and not needs (500)
= 4900 in expenses

So you make 6000 after taxes but have expenses of about 4900 ==> 6000 – 4900 = 1100

So you can pay into your debt 1100 per month, Gee that will take about 72 months or 6 years to zero out your balance sheet.

So if you buy now your probably going to lose money. Those greaterfools in Vancouver lost 12.4% if they bought at the peak several months ago. They will probably lose another 30-50% over time, because I believe we are not going to have a bubble pop all the sudden, but a long cold angry winter which will see price declines over a long period of time just like the USA. It didn’t happen all the sudden, but losing 1% to 3% every month can has its effects on a person’s mind.

On a million dollar house thats is 10,000 to 30,000 each month. On one of Vancouvers west end or richmond monster house that can be 30,000 to 90,000 each month. Over a year that is 120,000 to 360,000 lost over a year. Over 2 years that is 240,000 to 720,000 lost
Over 3 year that is 360,000 to 1,080,000.

#121 gladiator on 08.15.12 at 2:11 pm

@22 John in Mtl:
one thing that often is misunderstood is that USA does not print money (or create its electronic version) – they borrow money from the Fed and pay interest on it. USA has the advantage of borrowing from the Fed as much as it needs/wants, but one thing must be clear: it can’t print US dollars.
Another thing is that it must keep borrowing more and more money in order to pay interest to the Fed (example: if hypothetically the Fed created 100$ and USA borrowed it at 5%, then in a year it has to pay 105$, but where does it get the extra 5$ if there are only 100$ created? – it must borrow it from the creator of this money [the Fed]. Anyone sees a problem here?). But this is an entirely different story.

#122 Investx on 08.15.12 at 2:11 pm

Can someone explain what’s wrong with the HPI methodology and why it’s deceptive?

It supposedly does a better job of comparing relevant properties and is less skewed by exceptional sales.

#123 westcanguy on 08.15.12 at 2:12 pm

03 jesslyn on 08.15.12 at 12:29 pm

When I was in my mid 20′s my bf’s parents offered us $25000 down on a house. I immediately felt that they were trying to manipulate me into marrying their son or some crazy scheme. Being their slave DIL was not on my agenda. I broke up with him a couple of weeks later.

_____________________________________________

Good to see your heart was in the right place..rolling eyes..

I think you did the guy a favor by breaking up with him.

#124 refinow on 08.15.12 at 2:19 pm

Finance Canada has released the list of 22 Canadians – primarily CEOs – who will spend two days with Finance Minister Jim Flaherty this week at a closed-door policy retreat to discuss what Ottawa should do to give the economy a boost.

In past sessions, the participants were each asked to outline what they would do if they were finance minister for a day.

Garth tell me you are one of the 22 ??

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/finance-canada-unveils-invite-list-for-economy-retreat/article4482679/

#125 daystar on 08.15.12 at 2:22 pm

#94 Herb on 08.15.12 at 11:06 am

This theme of TH is constant isn’t it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f1zJFYY0Ek

Perhaps our friend should take a page from Joseph:

http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

… to get a grasp of his full limitations.

Where are we.. right. Chad.

Hi Chad.

Are you stupid? You don’t seem like it. Financially illiterate, it takes brains to admit weakness, thats a sign of strength. Married a nurse, bred, there’s nothing wrong with that. You prose a letter to Garth, thats inviting humility but its wise. Whats really going on in your life… hmmm?

You’ve got a brother in law that loves to brag about his nothing down home he bought because refineries are being built a mere 400 to 600 miles away, is that the realtor line that sold him? Buy now or be priced out forever because of oilsand development pushing prices higher? That old worn out realtor line being used for what, 15 years now, only the most dumb and gullible would believe that by now it hasn’t been priced in. (not saying that dummies are bad people here, its just that they come up with dumb ideas and aren’t much as planners) And your MIL and FIL, they do worship their dumb son don’t they? They would do anything for their kids. Ah yes, and how could they not embrace the old, worn out, dated and tired paradigm that couples have no life until they “own” a home (with credit naturally, after all, it worked for them).

Chad, you know where I’m going with this. Quit letting these people irritate you. People are for the most part, flawed and weak (with few, if any exceptions). Your inlaws are not different, their weaknesses are what you are reacting to and its getting to you. So here it is, what you should do according to the world of daystar (whoever that is).

Do nothing. Don’t agree to any douplex’s, don’t borrow from your inlaws, don’t do anything. Just say no. Let them ask you why 10 times. 15 times. Plan it this way. Drag it out by just saying no until they actually get frustrated (you know, that point when they aren’t enjoying trying to control you). When that time comes (and it will, they sound too annoying to not badger), tell them that you don’t want to borrow $450,000 on top of the 100K you already owe with a $140,000 combined gross income and no savings for several reasons.

Tell them that if either of you lose your jobs or get divorced, the douplex is gone unless they want to make up the revenue difference. How would they like that scenario 5 and 10 years from now at say…. 8%. If they say your marriage is solid, tell them you think so at present yourself but your job may not be. Why? You are an environmental technician in a province with a current federal government that would sooner lay off technicians in the field than deal with the current problems of… global warming.

The second reason is where interest rates will be not now, but 5 years from now when it comes time for renewal. If the answer is a quick, “but rates will still be low”, answer quickly, “how do you know? You don’t!” Then take a mortgage calculator and show them that payments double with a 5 year term at 8% when it comes time to renew. If they react with anger, tell them this:

If your inlaws can guarantee that oil will be above $100 a barrel and that the industry won’t be shelling out money for carbon capturing in the oilsands (have you noticed the global warming talk lately in media? I have, for good reason. This last year has been the warmest year on record globally and drought is becoming systemic. Carbon capture will be a hot topic within the next 5 years) or that an environmental technician can stay employed through the next 15 years considering global warming, greedy oil lobbies and future oil burning governments, that they can claim “God” status and literally with cock sure confidence declare that environemental technicians have job security, that interest rates will not return to “normal” or above normal when mortage terms come up for renewal, then you’ll bow down and wash their feet. Until that time, a couple making 140 K a year with questionmarks concerning income, $100K of debt and kids can’t take on another $450K worth of debt regardless of how much parents might wish it so.

In essence, things change and you’ll reconsider when you’ve got a $100K saved, not owed. Right?

Best of luck Chad.

#126 refinow on 08.15.12 at 2:22 pm

Nope, name not on the list. :(

Here is the list:

This year’s list includes:

1. André Bisson, Chair of the Board, Centre for Interuniversity Research and Analysis of Organizations

2. Robert Blakely, Director of Canadian Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO

3. John Brace, President and Chief Executive Officer, Northland Power

4. Deborah Brown, President and Managing Director, EMD Serono, Canada

5. Bob Cartmel, President and Chief Executive Officer, Eastern Canada, Lafarge Canada Inc.

6. Connie Clerici, Founder, President and Chief Executive Officer, Closing The Gap Healthcare Group

7. Paul Douglas, President and Chief Executive Officer, PCL

8. Dawn Farrell, President and Chief Executive Officer, TransAlta Corporation

9. Bruce Flatt, Senior Managing Partner and Chief Executive Officer, Brookfield Management

10. Linda Hasenfratz, Chief Executive Officer, Linamar Corporation

11. Roberta Jamieson, President and Chief Executive Officer, Indspire

12. Darby Kreitz, Chief Executive Officer, Allnorth Consultants Limited

13. James Lopez, President and Chief Executive Officer, Tembec

14. L. Ian MacDonald, Outgoing Editor, Policy Options Magazine

15. Calvin McDonald, President and Chief Executive Officer, Sears Canada Inc.

16. Francis P. McGuire , President and Chief Executive Officer, Major Drilling Group International Inc.

17. Marcus New, President, Stockhouse Publishing Ltd.

18. Paul Romer, Professor of Economics, Leonard N. Stern School of Business

19. Reza Satchu, Managing Partner, Alignvest Capital Management

20. Barbara Stymiest, Chair of the Board, Research in Motion Limited

21. William Watson, Associate Professor and Chairman, Economics Department, McGill University

22. Zoe Yujnovich, President and Chief Executive Officer, Iron Ore Company of Canada

#127 eagle eyes on 08.15.12 at 2:29 pm

Chad, I was recently in the same situation, but worse. My brother offered to loan me money, but didn’t get along with my wife. The stipulation was that the property would only be in mine and my brother’s name, with my wife signing a legal document that she wouldn’t have any claim to it should I pass or divorce. Even that offer was enough to cause a lot of tension. I would pay the mortgage and all the expenses, but would get to live in the house. My brother has his own house, but would get to dictate the which property we bought. I turned the deal down. I think you should do the same.

#128 Frank Simon on 08.15.12 at 2:34 pm

Deliberate slip, or simply a typo?
Never know with Garth.
“Chad, get a gripe”.
Luv it…

#129 Bill Gable on 08.15.12 at 2:42 pm

This takes the cake as the worst deal I have read about here on this “all knowing – all seeing”, blog.

Vampires have more ethics.

Hell, Harper has more ethics.

Barely.

#130 lawboy on 08.15.12 at 2:53 pm

#109 Coquitlam Resident
—-

You mean that Skytrain extension to PoCo, promised since the early 1990s, STILL isn’t a reality?

#131 Rock O Rama on 08.15.12 at 2:57 pm

Real musicians don’t even hit their stride until their 30’s. People who quit before then are just the wanabees and the ones that never had it in the first place. A friend of mine just landed a gig with one of the biggest rocks stars on the planet a year or two ago and he’s in his 40’s. Just sayin’.

As far as Chad goes … are you crazy? Run for the hills man! Buy that camper van for $10K and start driving! :-0

#132 Nopal on 08.15.12 at 3:13 pm

Jenna do you have kids?
Is that why you’re fat?

#133 Coquitlam Resident on 08.15.12 at 3:16 pm

#130 lawboy on 08.15.12 at 2:53 pm
—–

Yes, I understand its been a long time coming. However, the Evergreen line will be finished in 2016. A new station was actually just announced 2 weeks ago for Coquitlam Centre as well.

IMHO, this area is rapidly growing and appears to be well planned, especially in relation to other parts of the Lower Mainland.

#134 Mak on 08.15.12 at 3:28 pm

“There are rules to real estate investing, as I keep trying to point out. One of them is never, ever invest in a property with anyone you haven’t slept with.”

Wish someone had given me this advice 15 years ago. Now I need a time machine.

#135 jesslyn on 08.15.12 at 3:29 pm

123 westcanguy

My heart was in the right place. I saved alot of bitterness by not accepting a financial bribe that would surely create problems down the road. My intention was not to hurt anyone only to not participate in scheming and manipulation. I don’t regret that. Money is not free.

#136 Derek R on 08.15.12 at 3:31 pm

#121 gladiator on 08.15.12 at 2:11 pm wrote:
one thing that often is misunderstood is that USA does not print money (or create its electronic version) – they borrow money from the Fed and pay interest on it. USA has the advantage of borrowing from the Fed as much as it needs/wants, but one thing must be clear: it can’t print US dollars.

Sure it can. The US Treasury printed its own notes from 1862 right up to 1971. It could start again any time it wanted to. It just doesn’t want to.

Another thing is that it must keep borrowing more and more money in order to pay interest to the Fed (example: if hypothetically the Fed created 100$ and USA borrowed it at 5%, then in a year it has to pay 105$, but where does it get the extra 5$ if there are only 100$ created? – it must borrow it from the creator of this money [the Fed]. Anyone sees a problem here?). But this is an entirely different story.

There’s no problem. The Fed pays all its profits to the US Treasury. So that $5 in interest which you mentioned gets paid back to the Treasury and used to pay next year’s $5 interest.

The real reason that the US public debt keeps on growing is because US spending is so much higher than US taxation. Nothing to do with the Fed.

#137 Nick on 08.15.12 at 3:43 pm

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/listing-chill-hits-vancouver-housing-market/article4482381/

#138 Sebee on 08.15.12 at 3:51 pm

I guess we were a post early with all that Pink Floyd fun. Garth saved Chad the Rocker for us today. And it just so happens, Pink Floyd has a song for Chad. I send this one out to Chad on behalf of Garth. Chad, Garth cares. Name that song.

You know that I care what happens to you,
And I know that you care for me.
So I don’t feel alone,
Or the weight of the stone,
Now that I’ve found somewhere safe
To bury my bone.
And any fool knows a dog needs a home,
A shelter from pigs on the wing.

#139 Skiffy on 08.15.12 at 3:53 pm

Where is the cheap rent in Toronto? Ive been looking in toronto for 3 months for something to rent, and anything under 1500 is pretty much junk. Every viewing i go to has a line of people waiting to see the unit, and i have even seen bidding warns on rentals.

Will the realestate slow down put more presure on the rental market? It’s already hard to find a decent place to rent in Toronto proper which isn’t a slum or a long commute at a reasonable price.

Where do i find good rental units?

#140 Alex N Calgary on 08.15.12 at 4:07 pm

Really funny post! one of your best yet! What a Deal!!! parents are evil….

#141 Coquitlam Resident on 08.15.12 at 4:07 pm

Vancouver again gets rated in the top 3 worldwide by the Economist.

Vienna was #1.

Until Vancouver is no longer considered one of the most desirable places in the world to live, don’t expect much in the way of property declines. Indeed, try finding a detached house in Vienna for under 1.5M Euros. Good luck with that.

#142 eAl on 08.15.12 at 4:14 pm

With a spender like McGuinty calling for lower salary increases in the Public Service, the Ontario deficit must be in deep doo-doo.

#143 Country Girl on 08.15.12 at 4:24 pm

Chad, say “no thanks” to the inlaws. They’ll get over it. Doesn’t sound like the inlaws are very good with money. Use your own head. You’re smarter than them.

#144 Suede on 08.15.12 at 4:30 pm

#109 Coquitlam Resident

Give your head a shake, no one wants to live on Burke Mountain that doesn’t have to, to pretend they live in a McMansion or McMakeMeFeelBetterTownhome. In the list of top 20 hot areas to buy in Vancouver and the Lower Mainland, that doesn’t even make it in the top 50.

It takes 50mins to get to downtown vancouver from there and 30 minutes on average just to get to Burnaby. Heck it takes 10-15 minutes just to get back to Barnett Highway!

Ask someone in the BP’s, Kits, Point Grey, Morgan Creek or Burnaby Heights if they’ve ever heard of Burke Mountain. Nope.

It’s nice, scenic, foresty, quiet, quaint. But then again, so is Deep Cove, Anmore, Port Moody and they’re all much closer to the action.

Don’t kid yourself, skytrain isn’t coming up that way for many, many, many years. Until you get a major College, Airport, Shopping Centre or destination that people need to go to or through the edge of Coquitlam/PoCo who aren’t just going golfing in Pitt Meadows or for a night at Roosters – you’re not getting a skytrain.

With the $150M spent in “upgrading” the SkyTrain with fare turnstyles (no more honour system, i guess Canada isn’t that nice), Translink will be in the hole for a while after all their current plans get built (Port Mann and Evergreen Line).

#145 Pr on 08.15.12 at 4:37 pm

I think we may not have a correction: They open the gates of immigration like they never have, 200 000 IMMIGRANT from 2012-2015 in quebec!
**A fresh new 1.5 millions every 5 years in canada!**

This government is going nuts!I wonder what they have in mind.

#146 Steve on 08.15.12 at 4:38 pm

#122 Investx on 08.15.12 at 2:11 pm Can someone explain what’s wrong with the HPI methodology and why it’s deceptive?

It supposedly does a better job of comparing relevant properties and is less skewed by exceptional sales.

________________________________
People keep asking about this. There is more than one way to answer.

1. It was created by RE and it about RE and therefore is biased. Anyone (yes anyone) creating their own metric will (at best inadvertently) create a metric that is favourable to themselves.

2. While it is marketed (yes, marketed) as you describe it, the reality is that it obscures what is really happening as much as it obscures potential distortion from statistical outliers (those exceptional sales).

3. By their very nature, rolling averages produce a less reactive result. A 6 month rolling average will mix this months results with the previous 5 as an example. This month could tank, but the rolling average will not readily demonstrate it. Three bad months in a row will drop your average by only about 1/2 of the real effect. Like any statistical technique, a rolling average is valid sometimes, but sometimes it is not that useful. It produces only one of may views into a set of data.

4. “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Since most cannot understand the math behind any statistic and therfore cannot understand what they really mean, statistics are excellent means to mislead people and are readily misunderstood to the point of driving people to incorrect decisions and actions.

5. The HPI provides additional opportunity to quote results without context or in outright error. Both popular method for misleading people. I keep seeing ‘SALES’ results in headlines, and then discover they are HPI results when I read further. Sales going up or down and HPI going up or down are not strongly linked together and they are not synonyms. MSM should stop treating them as such.

Enjoy the Happy Price Index. Designed to make you feel good, regardless of RE realities. :-)

#147 Canadian Watchdog on 08.15.12 at 4:47 pm

#122 Investx

Have a look at CREA’s chart and ask yourself where you would have sold in 2008 if you followed their HPI.

If you said 5%, the market would have already been illiquid with few buyers on the market. Average price indicates market conditions and liquidity; median and HPI is the common home price or sale. You need the former in a healthy state to execute the latter, otherwise you’re stuck praying for luck.

#148 gtrz4peace on 08.15.12 at 5:03 pm

TO CHAD:

Haven’t posted in a while but had to weight in as we are professional musicians. For most of the past 30+ years, it’s been very good. Musicians DO have “real” jobs, so come over here so’s we can slap you silly for saying that.

Your in-laws are being dicks. Their plan is as full of holes as Ozzy’s liver. ‘Nuff said.

We hope you support live music with your “real job” wealth. And that you purchase the music you want for your ipod so’s composers and real musicians make the money they are entitled to for writing the Soundtrack to your Life.

Express to them that their “deal” is not realistic.

#149 robert james on 08.15.12 at 5:06 pm

One for the debt slaves …And of course Harper and his pigmen want us to be just like USA.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkWf9M3rUw&feature=related

#150 Blacksheep on 08.15.12 at 5:07 pm

We regularly read of these Derwood types (nothing personal Chad) mailing Garth about their RE related, situational marriage woes. The fact they (generically speaking, male/female irrelevant, whomever’s steering the ship) lack the leadership to have their partner follow their decisions and / or force the in-laws to stand down, predetermines the outcome of the conversation, before it begins.

To make matters worse, thanks to the ‘system’, most times two incomes are required to survive in our inflated society. As a 50% share holder in Marriage Inc., some simply lack the clout / control to state: Now is a bad time to sign a long term death contract, on a declining asset, end of conversation.

The Dogs chime in dispersing life saving advise, destined to fall on deaf ears, because the low % Beta types generally speaking, will not change their stripes.

This is why one partner ends up pacifying the other, with an over the top RE acquisition. Society demands it and the Derwood’s comply.

This all comes down to being very selective, before entering into the business of, Marriage Incorporated.

take care
Blacksheep

#151 TakingResponsibility on 08.15.12 at 5:19 pm

Pffftt! Chad only claims past rocker status. Tell the truth, Chad – you two covered Brittany, didn’t ya?

And, as for the next ‘boom’ from refineries – Bwahahaha! – NO new refineries coming down the PIPELINE baby!

Think pending sale of Nexen to STATE-OWNED chinese – CNOOC Ltd . Seriously, do you know how much of the resources here in Alberta are foreign-owned?? As one example, “Investments by China’s big energy State Owned Enterprises (SEOs) – China National Offshore Oil Corp (CNOOC), Sinopec and CNPC – in Canada’s oilsands and unconventional gas sectors since 2010 have totalled at least $25 billion… [C]oncerns about SOEs range from unlawful technology transfers to preferred access to bank capital and below-market interest rates that suggest the companies don’t play by the same economic rules as their competitors” (Ewan. 2012-08).

So, Alberta is just in the business of pushing through pipelines for the Chinese State and American owners to export raw/underprocessed resources and jobs to other lands. Eg. Few people are aware of the pipeline that is being built from Bruderheim (Edmonton) through some of the most environmentally sensitive land, to Kitimat BC where the terminal will accept Chinese tankers to load bitumen for REFINING in China.

*Should add the Jimmy Bobs and Sally’s here are the biggest cheerleaders. Dumkoffs.

Given just the example above of macro-geo-political economics, the consequences of which for future Albertans is a lot more staggering than baby living in rented house. Geesh.

I sometimes wish GT’s letters from Alberta weren’t so incredibly irrational. I am embarrassed. Geesh. If I didn’t live here, I wouldn’t believe the logic represented.

#152 Alex N Calgary on 08.15.12 at 5:23 pm

Have you noticed that one of the favorite “its different here” excuses is that some plant/train/park/hospital is being built near by and then these houses will remain immune from correction and will always be in demand because people will want to live close by these highly special areas?

My house value will go up even more once the train comes in, or the hospital is completed, the gas plant is done, endless, we’ll be spain in a year, people continue to buy, HELOC changes are coming major soon, I think that’ll be the big big stagnation point for non Vancover/toronto places.

#153 Karie on 08.15.12 at 5:35 pm

I think Chad is a very smart guy to write in here as his gut instinct is telling him it’s completely wrong to take this deal. He just doesn’t have the financial knowledge to articulate that to his in laws. Being in the music business long term is not for everyone doesn’t mean they’re a sell out or wannabe. It’s a lifestyle decision.

Better to take the grief from your in laws now Chad and stick to your guns. It is tempting to take the easy road and give in but if you do, you will experience 100x the grief or worse in the future. The free babysitting is nice if there are no strings attached but there are. You can find inexpensive daycare in Edmonton or your wife can work part time or some night shifts to save on some daycare costs.

Living that close to a relative can stress a relationship, maybe a few blocks so you’re still close but have some privacy. Good luck!

#154 Bigrider on 08.15.12 at 6:15 pm

I live in an igloo on the frozen tundra in the north west territories in a very small community of other igloo owners.

Funny thing, some of the other owners are buying multiple igloos because they believe ” it’s different here” in that everyone is going to be wanting to live here because of global warming and it’s still rather “cool” in terms of temperature over here.

Go figure

#155 truth hammer on 08.15.12 at 6:20 pm

Obama arming the civil service…….whats going on Baracko?

“Thursdsay August 14, 2012

Armed EPA OIG Folks

As long as we’re wandering through federal purchasing systems, don’t know how many people realize that the EPA’s office of inspector general bought 100…

“SIG Sauer Model P229 Semi-Automatic Pistol (P229); E29R-357-BSS-G; Caliber .357 SIG; DA/SA old style Alloy Frame; Stainless Slide; Black Nitron Finish; DA/SA Trigger; Supplied with three MecGar twelve (12)-round magazines and Trijicon three (3) Dot (White ? Glow Green) Night Sights; Milled locking inserts; and, Manufacturer carry case. ”

last August… Dudes have good taste in arms and all, but EPA armed now? and “Pricing shall include armor certification and training, as well as add-on three (3) day conceal weapon carry course for up to ten (10) total armors/instructors.”

Hmmmm…makes me want to find an EPA, Secret Service, or Capitol Policeman to sit near next time we go to the movies.

Just sayin’…

Anyway, in Wednesday morning’s Peoplenomics.com report, we’ll try to put a whole lot of dots up on the board (things like the Pacific quakes and sun getting angry and now all this ammo buying) and see what comes together… that’ll be over on our http://www.peoplenomics.com site, which as I tirelessly remind you is just $40/year.

Secret Service Ammo Buy, Too

OK, as we continue our looking through Federal Bids, we see in June the Secret Service was shopping for “40,000 rounds with two options for 20,000 rounds” of Winchester .300 Magnums. Awarded to an outfit in Rapid City June 30, if we’re reading it and all to be delivered before year end.

Urgent Update: 600,000 Rounds to Capitol Police!

I must not be reading this Federal Bid right: WTF do Capitol Police need 600,000 rounds of .40 cal for? I quote from the Federal web site:

“The United States Capitol Police, Training Services Bureau has a requirement to procure the following Ammunitions: 1. (600) 165 Grain Gold Dot Hollow Point, 40 S&W, 1,000/Case – 53970;

NOTE: Ship in 2 equal shipments of 300,000 rds each. The first delivery no later than September 30, 2012 and second delivery no later than December 30, 2012.”

Something’s going on – and we’re still digging… But’cha know, for an administration that is down on gun control for The People, seems like a lot of .40 cal to be3 buying…. we continue our looking…

Urgent Update: Things Just Got Worse

OK, maybe we get a little paranoid around here sometimes but the revelation leaking out today that the Commerce Department’s NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE is looking to buy lage quantities of ammunication and targets has us going with a kserious WTF? moment… We quote from the federal government’s bidding and procurement site:

“The DOC NOAA National Weather Service – Western Acquisition Division ? Boulder requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:

LI 001, 16,000 rounds of ammunition for semiautomatic pistols to be factory-loaded .40 S&W caliber, 180-grain jacketed hollow point (JHP). No reloads may be used with these weapons. All service furnished ammunition for issued firearms will be U.S. factory production. ?Inside Delivery? to locations below: NED: 8,000 rounds to: Ross Lane DOC, NOAA, NMFS, OLE, NED 130 Oak Street, Suite 5, Ellsworth, ME, 04605 8,000 rounds to: Troy Audyatis, DOC, NOAA, NMFS, OLE, NED 53 North 6th Street, Room 214 New Bedford, MA, 02740., 16, Cases;

LI 002, 24,000 rounds of ammunition for semiautomatic pistols to be factory-loaded .40 S&W caliber, 180-grain jacketed hollow point (JHP). No reloads may be used with these weapons. All service furnished ammunition for issued firearms will be U.S. factory production. ”

More on the bidding website…since we just know you’re not going to a gun show this weekend… Hollow points for the weathermen? Or, government trying to hide massive 40-cal arms acquisitions? You make the call…”

#156 CriticalQ on 08.15.12 at 6:22 pm

#108 Arthur

Please take a look at this lecture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VymhJCcNBBc&feature=player_embedded

“At the University of Missouri, on May 29, 2009, scientists from the US Navy’s Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR) lectured on twenty years of verified research involving anomalous heat and mini-explosions on deuterated metals, reported by various governmental and international research laboratories. ”

and:

DGT confirmed that they will be moving their operations to Vancouver, Canada

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/defkalion-presents-data-business-plans-at-ni-week/

Now the burden of proof falls on you to show “There is absolutely zero evidence that shows cold fusion is real. “

#157 Fluxone on 08.15.12 at 6:24 pm

genius as usual

keep on rockin’

#158 Investx on 08.15.12 at 6:37 pm

147 Canadian Watchdog:
#122 Investx

Have a look at CREA’s chart and ask yourself where you would have sold in 2008 if you followed their HPI.

If you said 5%, the market would have already been illiquid with few buyers on the market. Average price indicates market conditions and liquidity; median and HPI is the common home price or sale. You need the former in a healthy state to execute the latter, otherwise you’re stuck praying for luck.
………………………………………………………………..
Thanks for the response CWD.

This does not explain the methodology and what’s wrong with it. We’re talking about prices and how they are represented.

People claim The HPI makes the prices appear higher or favorable to the industry, yet look at the 2009 rebound. The HPI didn’t shoot up as fast and high as the Average Price.

As per today’s G&B article:
“The MLS index measures price differences over time between comparable homes — townhouses to townhouses, mansions to mansions and so on.”

Sincerely, what is wrong with this methodology and why doesn’t it represent the market price?

#159 Mark W on 08.15.12 at 6:45 pm

I notice two things about all the letters you get.

(1) They all have the same structure and style. I find it hard to believe that so many different people would express their ideas in exactly the same way, in the same wording, and the same context, with the same undertone of sarcasm.

(2) Everyone writing seems to have a combined income in the six figure range. Statistically unlikely. No one ever seems to write you that makes $35,000 a year which is far, far more likely in this country.
Or am I to believe that only people making in the top 5% of Canadian income earners are the only people who write, or even read this blog?

A far more likely statistical senerio would be “my wife and myself have a combined income of $58,000 per year. She is an employee at Walmart and I drive a dump truck for a living.

I never see letters like that. Nope! Not one!

In a recent post you described $66,000 a year as being a “modest” salary … by what definition is $66,000 a year modest?

The vast majority of Canadians (actually more than 90%) could only dream of money like that!

(a) If you are implying I write the letters, you sure have more time on your hands than I do. (b) Perhaps the letter writers’ income levels reflect the demos of this blog. (c) What are you doing here? — Garth

#160 salonist on 08.15.12 at 6:47 pm

mr. turner
is this standard fare in your industry?

http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-sonderling-2012-8

I’ll respond when I’m done with the cuffs. — Garth

#161 Helga on 08.15.12 at 6:53 pm

Skiffy #139

our daughter rents in LuCliff place, 77 Gerrard West, not a fancy apartment, no stainless steel, but about 600 sqft for $1375 parking, heat, hydro and airconditioning inluded.

#162 Coquitlam Resident on 08.15.12 at 6:58 pm

#144 Suede on 08.15.12 at 4:30 pm

You have a link to the Top 20 places to invest in the Lower Mainland or is that just made up?

“Ask someone in the BP’s, Kits, Point Grey, Morgan Creek or Burnaby Heights if they’ve ever heard of Burke Mountain. Nope.”

Either way, the places you list all contain SFDH in the millions. Point Grey? Kits? It’s a million dollars for a new townhouse there. Burnaby Heights? Not very appealing IMHO, although they have some good restaurants. Morgan Creek? You mean Surrey? Yuck, I don’t have that much money to send my kids to a private school.

Anyway, on Burke Mountain, you can get a new townhouse for the high 300s/low 400s right now. For me, the centre of the action is where the best value is. I’m not trying to impress anyone. The government building a new town centre, 3 new schools, and a skytrain next door to the area over the next few years is a nice kicker too.

Similarly priced to the very unappealing Langley, yet within a 10 min drive or so I have Sasamat Lake, LaFarge Lake, Minnikada Park, Pinecone Burke Provincial Park, and Rocky Point Park in Port Moody. IMHO, having traveled extensively, its unbeatable for outdoor enthusiasts.

P.S. I actually hope it stays under the radar. I think thats how people up here want it!

#163 John on 08.15.12 at 7:21 pm

Coquitlam Resident wrote:

Vancouver again gets rated in the top 3 worldwide by the Economist.

Vienna was #1.

“Until Vancouver is no longer considered one of the most desirable places in the world to live, don’t expect much in the way of property declines. Indeed, try finding a detached house in Vienna for under 1.5M Euros. Good luck with that.”
———-

What’s a “Euro”?

Good thing you can see how the game is unfolding.

Good luck with that.

#164 Devore on 08.15.12 at 7:31 pm

#122 Investx

Can someone explain what’s wrong with the HPI methodology and why it’s deceptive?

It’s already been explained here many times. Basically, it’s a black box from which numbers come out monthly. Numbers which no one can verify or replicate independently.

#165 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 08.15.12 at 7:32 pm

03 jesslyn on 08.15.12 at 12:29 pm

When I was in my mid 20′s my bf’s parents offered us $25000 down on a house. I immediately felt that they were trying to manipulate me into marrying their son or some crazy scheme. Being their slave DIL was not on my agenda. I broke up with him a couple of weeks later.

====================================

Yeah…..I won’t mention names…..but the other option is usually cement shoes and having to listen to Pavarotti and Caruso till ya puke.

Not to mention the gold chain polish !

#166 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.15.12 at 7:33 pm


#49 Oceanside — “. . . NEVER buy property with friends or relatives, . . .”
#63 Nubbers — “Those kind of people will always find something to pick on.”
#64 tri state pat — “As an observer on A LOT of those deals, nine times out of ten it does not work out very well.”,
— and finally —
#140 Alex N Calgary — “What a Deal!!! parents are evil….”

Powder keg waiting to explode! Don’t give them the match to light the fuse, Chad. There are better alternatives than being subservient slaves to the in-laws. Run like hell, never look back!
*
From 1934, the Thought For The Day (wrh.com) — “Capital must protect itself in every way…Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd.” — Taken from the Civil Servants’ Year Book,”The Organizer”January 1934. Included is this 0:46 clip, which sums it up nicely and Bankers Manifesto 191-34. [Note the term “By dividing the people . . .” — that is what politicos are doing so very well at present.
*
Soros and China The link a few nights ago said China was planning on a new, gold-backed currency, just as Libya did and Iran have now. Be interesting to see the west take on China, Russia and Iran; 1:46 clip UK in worse shape than previously believed. Similar to Greece after the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens, Olympics Economic failure, as predicted; Oil spikes; 0:50 clip Ireland can learn from Iceland, and IMF admits Iceland was right plus Planting the Seeds; 7:29 clip “This mis-step into the Orwellian zone is both frightening and sickening.’ (GS); Economic recovery? Hah! Solyndra (Obomba’s baby) No payback of govt. loan; Medicaid Poor denied access, so US feds. are close to being broke; Ground Beef hits record high; China replaces US as Nigeria’s #1 crude oil importer; Rocky goes Rambo on a couple of things; Unemployment Govt. fluff figures, then The Real McCoy.
*
Organic Baby Formula with toxic sludge added; Avoiding GMO foods; Whooping Cough “I wonder who pays this “Advisory Panel”? Meanwhile, research reported by Reuters reveals that whooping cough outbreaks are HIGHER among vaccinated children compared with unvaccinated children.” wrh.com; Hypersonic Craft failed; Post Olympic Games UK is a full-blown police state, like the US; France Riot in northern part; Space Weather Captured on video; Wacky figure of the day. You can’t make this stuff up. They walk among us!

#167 Devore on 08.15.12 at 7:52 pm

#133 Coquitlam Resident

However, the Evergreen line will be finished in 2016. A new station was actually just announced 2 weeks ago for Coquitlam Centre as well.

Oh, wow, it was announced! Well, that showed everyone.

Unless they’re breaking ground right this very moment, don’t expect anything until sometime in the next decade. All you’ll have in 2016 is more announcements.

#168 Davey Boy on 08.15.12 at 8:08 pm

Seriously keep your in-laws at a distance. Made the mistake of living too close to mine and it caused huge tension in our relationship. MIL was a meddler and was a primary cause of my relationship going south.

#169 Devore on 08.15.12 at 8:21 pm

#159 Mark W

Or, (3) People living paycheck to paycheck and using government assistance programs have no time to worry about the options their excess income presents them?

#170 Yo Mama on 08.15.12 at 8:26 pm

Now that oil is hitting $94 again, can an economic boom for Edmonton be far behind?

#171 jess on 08.15.12 at 8:34 pm

austerity

His home region of Andalusia is one of the parts of Spain worst hit by the economic crisis: one worker in three is jobless, the news agency said.
http://finance.sympatico.ca/home/spains_robin_hood_mayor_steps_up_protests/4aeff201

The mayor of a Spanish town who helped raid supermarkets to give groceries to the poor will step up his campaign against the country’s austerity measures.

…”They say I’m dangerous,” the news agency quoted him as saying. “And the bankers who are let off for fraud? That’s not dangerous? The banks which borrow from the ECB for one per cent then resell that debt to Spaniards for six per cent – they’re not dangerous?” he said

=======
.Saving the banks, but not reckless bankers
Giancarlo Spagnolo, 13 August 2012
http://www.voxeu.org/article/criminal-sanctions-how-save-banks-without-rewarding-bankers
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/consult_sanctions_directors_banks.htm

#172 Just Looking on 08.15.12 at 8:49 pm

Coquitlam Resident wrote:

Vancouver again gets rated in the top 3 worldwide by the Economist.

Vienna was #1.

“Until Vancouver is no longer considered one of the most desirable places in the world to live, don’t expect much in the way of property declines. Indeed, try finding a detached house in Vienna for under 1.5M Euros. Good luck with that.”

My German is not excellent, so I may be incorrect but:

Detached House in the Vienna burbs: EUR200k – 30 minutes from downtown – about the same commute as coquitlam.
http://www.immototal.at/immobilien/objekte/niederoesterreich/444.php

6000 Sq Ft. Apartment in downtown vienna (750m from the Cathedral, near the river): EUR490k. http://www.immototal.at/immobilien/objekte/wien/314.php (second listing down)

Not cheap, it’s true, but in Europe, condos are built for families, not singles, so this is somewhat equivalent to a house in the city in Vancouver. It is certainly cheaper than just about anything you could raise two kids in anywhere within the Vancouver City limits. It is definitely bigger (if my parsing of the German is correct – I admit I could be wrong).

#173 jess on 08.15.12 at 8:51 pm

been there done that

tax-farmers” or publicani – Marcus Licinius Crassus: tax farmer and power broker

Modern tax farming: and the Roman dangers of private enterprise

http://taxjustice.blogspot.ca/

#174 Kind of Different on 08.15.12 at 8:53 pm

Chad, your wife married you and she’s gotta choose between you or her real estate obsessed family. You’re both absolutely doomed if you go through this real estate maze with such idiotic parents.

#175 Daisy Mae on 08.15.12 at 9:00 pm

#89 Just looking: “I’ve seen a couple of friends arrange MIL daycare. Neither arrangement has lasted long….”

*****************

That’s because we grannies have been there — done that.

Now, we’re free to do as we please…

#176 Canadian Watchdog on 08.15.12 at 9:01 pm

#164 Devore #122 Investx

“It’s already been explained here many times. Basically, it’s a black box from which numbers come out monthly. Numbers which no one can verify or replicate independently.”

Thank you for summing it up nicely.

#177 AprilNewwest on 08.15.12 at 9:10 pm

#172
Doesn’t matter how desirable a place is it’s no different when it comes to a RE decline. As Garth and others have repeated many time if the fundamentals are not there to support a housing boom the boom will not last as we are now experiencing in the Lowermainland and across Canada.

#178 John in Mtl on 08.15.12 at 9:20 pm

97 @OlderbutWiser on 08.15.12 at 11:41 am wrote:
“…The US is somewhat protected since the USD is the reserve currency – but this can change. Do not fool yourself.”

I know this can change but the US probably has a way of printing or bullying its way out of that too. The US has always twisted someone’s arm and got away with it. Personally, I find it disgusting !

121 @gladiator on 08.15.12 at 2:11 pm wrote:
“…but where does it get the extra 5$ if there are only 100$ created? – it must borrow it from the creator of this money [the Fed]. Anyone sees a problem here?). But this is an entirely different story.”

I have a minimal working knowledge of how the Fed Reserve & govt are in an endless loop together about money but it seems to me that they’re just different pockets of the same pair of pants. In the end, its still only one source/destination.

John

#179 AprilNewwest on 08.15.12 at 9:31 pm

Apparently there are many lists by different agencies as to the best place to live and all are different. Vancouver may not be on some at all or may be way down the list. Of course mainstream media won’t reveal that. Got to keep the sheep thinking their living in paradise.

#180 cramar on 08.15.12 at 9:32 pm

“We are both financially illiterate idiots and we managed to get ourselves into about 80 grand worth of debt (student loans, furniture, car, wedding).”

“Trouble is we have less than 10k in savings, a boat load of debt and have no business being home owners.”

The above says it all! My call…

a) Follow Garth’s advice. Do not proceed with this insane plan.

b) Seriously look at educating yourself in personal finance.

c) In combination with b) above, work at the goal of getting out of debt. You are $70k in the hole at this stage. It might take you at least three years of hard discipline and austerity to get to the ground floor.

You are 100% right! In your current situation, you have no business being home owners.

#181 45north on 08.15.12 at 10:41 pm

Chad: your wife’s parents don’t have $150,000 they have a house.

I think they are having trouble paying property taxes, utilities and maintenance.

#182 John in Mtl on 08.15.12 at 11:12 pm

110 @Derek R on 08.15.12 at 1:03 pm wrote:

“…That will allow the 200 borrowers to pay you back $2,100,000. But it won’t cause inflation because it all
ends up back in your safe. So you can repeat the trick next year. And it’s even less work then because you
don’t have to print anything.

Of course the difficult part is getting the licence to print money. But some people manage. We call them bankers. Who said there’s no such thing as a free lunch?”

Great explanation Derek ! Its like I was saying in an earlier reply (see above posts); “different pockets but

same pair of pants ” :)

John

#183 Derek R on 08.16.12 at 1:24 am

#182 John in Mtl on 08.15.12 at 11:12 pm wrote:
Its like I was saying in an earlier reply (see above posts); “different pockets but same pair of pants”

Dead right, John! That’s exactly what it is!

#184 Arthur on 08.16.12 at 11:43 am

#156 CriticalQ

The e-cat world website and youtube videos are not valid sources for breakthroughs in Physics. Show me a peer reviewed study published by a respected journal of physics.

#185 CriticalQ on 08.16.12 at 6:24 pm

#184 Arthur.. I’m not sure if you read the references on the youtube video but here they are non the less.

References 1. S. Szpak, P.A. Mosier-Boss, M.H. Miles, and M. Fleischmann, ‘Thermal Behavior of Polarized Pd/D Electrodes Prepared by Co-Deposition’, Thermochim. Acta, Vol. 410, pp. 101-107 (2004).
2. P.A. Mosier-Boss and S. Szpak, ‘The Pd/nH System: Transport Processes and Development of Thermal Instabilities’, Il Nuovo Cimento, Vol. 112A, pp. 577-585 (1999).
3. S. Szpak, P.A. Mosier-Boss, and J.J. Smith, ‘On the Behavior of the Cathodically Polarized Pd/D System: Search for Emanating Radiation’, Phys. Letts. A, Vol. 210, pp. 382-390 (1996).
4. S. Szpak, P.A. Mosier-Boss, R.D. Boss, and J.J. Smith, ‘On the Behavior of the Pd/D System: Evidence for Tritium Production’, Fusion Technology, Vol. 33, pp. 38-51 (1998).
5. S. Szpak, P.A. Mosier-Boss, C. Young, and F.E. Gordon, ‘Evidence of Nuclear Reactions in the Pd Lattice’, Naturwissenschaften, Vol. 92, pp. 394-397 (2005).
6. P.A. Mosier-Boss, S. Szpak, F.E. Gordon, and L.P.G. Forsley, ‘Use of CR-39 in Pd/D Co-Deposition Experiments’, Eur. Phys. J. Appl. Phys., Vol. 40, pp 293-303 (2007).
7. P.A. Mosier-Boss, S. Szpak, F.E. Gordon, and L.P.G. Forsley, ‘Triple Tracks in CR-39 as the Result of Pd/D Co-deposition: Evidence of Energetic Neutrons’, Naturwissenschaften. Vol. 96, pp. 135-142 (2009).

If you need more, you can just google it.

Cheers, C

#186 mark on 08.16.12 at 9:41 pm

Garth,

you had mentioned you would take at RE market in major cities. I think you did winnipeg first

Can you do Ottawa next?

after all, ottawa is very different ;-)