Bad attitudes

GreaterFool Weekend Digest: Being an occasional compilation of stuff for people who read this pathetic blog on Saturdays because they have no life.

Where the future is already:
Every day last month somebody in town bought a house for less than $60,000.  Sales in November tumbled almost 13%. The average house price is now $165,000, just half the national average for Canada, slightly below the average for America, and almost $600,000 cheaper than the typical SFH in Toronto.

The city has 325,000 people, about the same size as Victoria (average house price $592,034), and bigger than Saskatoon ($314,541) or Regina ($292,932). The average winter temperature is rarely below freezing, and health care is free, of course. What else would you expect in Windsor?

You might be interested in knowing that bidding wars have erupted in Canada’s southern-most city. Realtors say lately they’ve been swamped with calls from people looking for cheap fixer-uppers they can reno and flip. Like a house on Louis Avenue close to the glittering casino, Caesars Windsor, which recently received multiple offers and sold for $32,000.

As a local broker told the Windsor Star: “We are getting constant calls from out-of-towners, a lot of investors from Toronto, constant calls from people asking for houses under $40,000. They’re grabbing them.”

And why not? The real estate correction which is nibbling at the edges of the GTA, flooding into the Okanagan, infecting Nova Scotia and lapping at Victoria, arrived about two years ago in this clean, comfortable, burby city on a fat, lazy river holding back what’s left of Detroit. Two hours to Toronto, four to Chicago. Full of banks oozing with mortgage funds. And no yuppies.

Throwing up down under:
In the year and a half before last summer, house prices in Melbourne (Australia) soared about 25%, right along with Vancouver. In fact, Aussie towns have routinely been topping global charts as being the most unaffordable in the world. No wonder. The politicians running the country actually gave people money to buy houses. Like a $7,000 grant to newbie buyers. Plus an annual grant to people saving for a downpayment. And an additional first-home bonus for virgins jumping into a home worth less than $600,000. That’s right. Six hundred.

As a result, Australian homes average $467,000 (Cdn), or more than $100,000 above the Canadian norm. And, like Canada, 70% of Australians have homes. Like us, they’re also drowning in debt.

But it looks like the gig is up.

In the last 10 months Melbourne prices have dropped by almost 6%, while Brisbane is off 7.5%. Nationally, the decline is 4% so far in 2011 – in contrast to an increase of 7.2% here. In fact, in October alone Perth prices sank at an annualized rate of 10%, and Brisbane cratered 19%.

Why has this happened in a country where people are even hornier for houses than Canadians? Where the government has stated, “The home owner feels that he has a stake in the country, and that he has something worth working for, living for, fighting for”? Where the central bank just cut interest rates (after raising them) to try to reflate the bubble?

Reality. The global economic funk is hitting Australia just the way it will impact Canada. Both are big, sparsely-populated countries with a small domestic economy, a big reliance on natural resources, a sensitivity to volatile commodity prices and, apparently, run by idiots.

Encouraging citizens into debt is not a strategy. This is why.

Xmas in Cochrane:
Whaddya do when you giddyup into the boonies to build houses, then discover nobody wants them?  If it’s in a bog outside of Cochrane. Alberta (pop 16,000, geldings excluded), you give them away.

You can read all about it in your copy of this week’s Cochrane Eagle, but here’s the story: Homes in the MonTerra Development (starting price $580,000) are now available for free. The builder (Medallion Corp.) and the developer (Provenance Group) are offering “grants” to “hard-working families” who might wish to live in one of Calgary’s outer burbs, worth 9% of the purchase price of homes. Just forget that pesky downpayment.

The dudes behind the scheme say it is a “full, non-repayable grant, with no strings attached… without provisions.” That means it qualifies as a gift under CMHC rules, which also means Ottawa will insure 100% of the funding on the transaction. And, handily, 9% will cover the required 5% downpayment plus the closing costs, so anyone who wants to live in a new house in wherever need only fog the usual mirror to qualify for a mortgage.

Don’t you love to see charity in action?



#1 First Place on 12.02.11 at 10:53 pm

Yes! First!

#2 Timing is Everything on 12.02.11 at 10:56 pm

Garth. Is that your bike? Are those the Amazons?
If that’s them, nobody’s gonna mess with your bike, that’s for sure. Yikes!

#3 Mr. Lee on 12.02.11 at 10:56 pm

Mean while the house pumpers at the CMHC and CREB tell us that the Calgary market is “set to advance” in 2012 and that Nov home sales far exceeded the sales in Nov of 2010. Nothing to see here, nothing to worry about, jobs abundant, world economic woes nothing to worry about.

Ooops, city council approved an 18% property tax increase over three years. Woops, utilities for water and electricity going up due to short fall. Yikes, those abundant jobs…..yeah they are not exec positions at Oil or Gas Inc….they are postions pouring coffee or asking if that is to stay or to go.

#4 International Man on 12.02.11 at 11:04 pm


G, I liked how you referred to the Australian housing market — one of the last bastions of house horniness (your words). Can you present a study on price trends after the first year of a housing bubble burst? In other words, something showing the big price drops occur in years 2 & 3?

I think that’s what we saw in the US, Ireland and now in Australia.

Key message is this: when we see that minimal 3-5% drop in Canada, don’t think the correction is over!!

#5 dibbsy on 12.02.11 at 11:06 pm

Greetings from Brisbane!

#6 Dork on 12.02.11 at 11:07 pm

Hey Garth reading your blog from apple store.

#7 T.O. Bubble Boy on 12.02.11 at 11:07 pm

And, in local BC news (or, at least, the opinion pages): Is it time to curb foreign ownership of real estate in Metro Vancouver?

#8 Peter Goesinya on 12.02.11 at 11:07 pm

two hours to Toronto? How fast do you drive sir?

watch out for the PIGS hanging out on the overpass by Ingersoll and Putnam

#9 JO on 12.02.11 at 11:12 pm

Windsor sure has its sore spots but as far as buying decent and affordable homes, it is tops as long as one is lucky to have a decent job. One of the few bright spots for business opps is car rentals in Windsor – it is a booming business as growing numbers of Windsorites have stopped owning cars and rent a cheap car once/twice per week.

Hamilton is not far behind but probably a better bet if you can get a good deal in one of its few decent pockets.

Prices in GTA are very likely to decline at least 15-20 % over the next few years. Chance of major crash is low but still realistic.

Ponzi enablers CMHC and BofC will eventually have eggs on their face and the public will come to realize what these organizations are really designed to do – impose the most hedious tax on the majority called inflation. Massive credit inflation fools the common man into believing s/he is rich when in fact the poor fool is paying what amounts to a large and very real tax to the government and senior execs in the banking and RE and related fields.

As they say, a fool and his money are soon seperated. Caveat emptor.

#10 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.02.11 at 11:12 pm

“Throwing up down under: But it looks like the gig is up.” — It is quite curious how RE in Canada and Oz seem to be floating along on parallel bars, oblivious to what is going on around them.

As Roger Waters said in the dialogue after one of the DSOTM’s songs, the two countries need “. . . a short, sharp shock . . .” to slap them back to reality. We don’t seem to have grasped anything yet.
#184 OwlEyes — Great clip! Would a Pinto last that long?!

#190 Snowboid — ” . . . maybe we can have the party in Phoenix next year? ”

You betcha! Garth can shut up shop for a fortnight or so, and bring everyone with him. Does Gretzky still rule the roost at the Coyotes, or has he checked out?
4:38 clip Euro crash? Which could lead to this — Germany and France plan new EU; Iceland At least the govt. has the intestinal fortitude to arrest banxters; Corzine Subpoenaed MF Global; Will it happen? “For every pound deposited, a bank is allowed to lend it back out to a factor of 10. That’s what they mean by fractional reserve banking and yes, that’s how it happens.”; Mtge. ratesgoing up, cut bonuses; Govt. waste, or how govts. spend taxpayers money; 5:12 clip “Why I am striking”; Credit Unions are way nicer than banks; Energy Debts High debts hurting families.
Hot ‘N’ Nasty Not sure where to place this, as it covers a wide range of things; The fight ain’t over — indefinite detention language must go; Biden “But it’s cool for the US to bomb a long list of countries into rubble, right?”; Slaves Gene patenting; Uncle Samwants you to join their Gestapo.

#11 Jas Girn on 12.02.11 at 11:13 pm

First?? I hope so. It has been a while.

#12 jonny on 12.02.11 at 11:15 pm

This can’t be serious? I am moving there next month from Toronto. Just sold my house last month for 750,000 in vaughan/woodbridge. My wife and I been deciding painfully if we should rent or buy. If we rent, it will be about 2200/ month. If we buy, it will be about 2200/month. My wife doesn’t want to look like a fool if house prices keep sky rocketing. Then she will blame me for doing nothing but reading Garth’s blog everyday.

#13 Kevin on 12.02.11 at 11:16 pm

Many cities across the country have many different subsidies for housing. This is just another reason why the home ownership rate is over 70%, a level the Americans could not break. Saskatoon has the Mortgage Flexibilities Support Program for “people who just need a break”

Saskatoon also has plenty of initiatives and incentives for housing which has just encouraged more human emotions that ” real estate is always a safe bet”
# Equity Building Program
# Land Pre-Designation Program
# New Zoning District for Entry-level and Affordable Housing
# Capital Funding
# Property Tax Abatement
# Direct Sale of City-owned Land for Affordable Housing Projects
# Priority Review of Approved Affordable Housing Projects
# Permit Rebates for Secondary Suites

Someone should compile a list of all Canadian cities that provide subsidies to ” people who need a break” in order to enter the real estate market.

#14 Crazy on 12.02.11 at 11:17 pm

Hmmm. Not sure where you get these numbers, Garth.

I make them all up. Saves time. — Garth

#15 TurnerNation on 12.02.11 at 11:22 pm

What 2.2 mill buys in Toronto. A freakin big, old rooming house. I did not check if it’s cash flow positive.

#16 Peter on 12.02.11 at 11:32 pm

I’m reading this Friday night 7PST,what does that mean??

#17 gladiator on 12.02.11 at 11:34 pm


When Tim and I to Brisbane went,
We met three ladies cheap to rent
They were three and we were two,
So I booked one and Tim booked two.

Surely you knwo where that comes from, eh, mate?

#18 How best to go bankrupt? on 12.02.11 at 11:35 pm

How hard is it to walk away? If the government of Canada wants to run a ponzi scheme then I see no reason not to buy with hopes of making money. If the ponzi scheme goes bust then walk. That’s what the harper conservatives want.

#19 Need advice - thanks in advance for all that respond on 12.02.11 at 11:36 pm

Hi, I rarely post but have been a reader for quite a while. I learned a lot from this blog. Thank you Garth, you rock!

I rent and save and feel like many others here quite perplexed that the credit boom just keeps going and going and that seemingly so many people don’t consider being maxed out a problem. I have a modest income and as I save a substantial amount I often feel that I can not keep up with friends and acquaintances. It’s really tough on one’s social life and getting those ignorant remarks on why I am still renting does not help either.

Anyway, it’s good right now that my living costs are not that high as I believe my employer is trying to terminate me and is building a case against me. Can anyone on this blog recommend a good Employment Lawyer? Sorry for this more OT post, but I am going through a very difficult situation right now and don’t know people that could give me independent advice. It’s also scary to think I will need a lawyer, as I have never had to contact an employment lawyer before. Any help is very much appreciated! Thanks!

#20 Not 1st on 12.02.11 at 11:36 pm

Ahhh, Monterra on Cochrane Lakes, or at least that was how it was marketed. Its really a seasonal puddle about 5 or 8 miles NW of Cochrane. Someone thought it was a good place for million plus homes. Sounds like they bet that one wrong. In a couple years you will get them for about $300k.

#21 Mister Obvious on 12.02.11 at 11:52 pm

Here’s a link to a house in Windsor for $59,900. Small SFH on a corner lot. 3 Bedrooms, 2 bathrooms on a 37 x 90 lot. Currently rented for $700/mo with a year lease. Taxes are $1600/year.

Based on all that you could realize 11% on a $60K investment. Even if you had to hire a property manager you could still probably see at least 8% on your money. A lot of people have $60K sitting in the orange guy’s shorts at 1.5%.

Will somebody please tell me what I am missing here?

#22 Not 1st on 12.02.11 at 11:55 pm

#19 Need advice

Tell your employer if even tries to fire you, you will claim you were harassed by the CEO in the washroom. Its your word against his. Remember, truth doesn’t matter, only what you can prove matters.

Seriously though, start amassing your own file on what goes on at work, if your boss discriminates against you, etc and document it. People I have know have ever carried a tape recorder to document private conversations for a future action. Be proactive – don;t wait to be show the door.

#23 JB on 12.02.11 at 11:55 pm

#13 Kevin Appreciate all the good work you are doing with your blog, I read it daily along with Garths. I rarely have the $0.02 worth to comment, what can I say that hasn’t already been said? Props good sir!

#24 conservatives = housing ponzi on 12.02.11 at 11:56 pm

Borrow as much as you can. Once the music stops give the conservative bankers the middle finger and walk. Harper know he ia running a ponzi scheme. Conservative Housing Mortgage Con (CHMC)

#25 TONY on 12.03.11 at 12:00 am


#26 jess on 12.03.11 at 12:02 am

… life coaches and Strategic Innovators

Donation? Sounds more like a tax scheme
with fracking as your neighbour.

..”Up to nine per cent of the home value will be granted to those who qualify, to go towards their down payment; the funds don’t have to be repaid. In addition to the down payment, a portion of each grant will go towards the CJAY92 Kids Fund, which helps Calgary and area families and children in need.

This attainable housing program has been made possible by the combined donation of the builder (the Medallion Corp., in this case), the developer (the Provenance Group) and other participating community foundations, trades and realtors.”

#27 HouseBuster on 12.03.11 at 12:16 am

Heard a rumour the other day the Stephen Harper is the leader of the world’s shadow government.

Not even world leader Harper can prevent the 50% haircut in real estate.

#28 Weeping in Windsor on 12.03.11 at 12:19 am

A $1.3 million pot bust could be the latest sign that cheap real estate here and police crackdowns elsewhere are pushing drug traffickers into the Windsor area.

Read more:

#29 Snowboid on 12.03.11 at 12:19 am

#10 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.02.11 at 11:12 pm…

Gretzky has been keeping a low profile:

a. since the problems in 2009
b. since his daughter starting posting provocative pics on Twitter

Not even sure if he still has the camps in AZ anymore or his home here.

Nice arena though, it’s about 15 minutes down Loop 101 from our place.

#30 rp1 on 12.03.11 at 12:24 am

“In fact, in October alone Perth prices sank at an annualized rate of 10%, and Brisbane cratered 19%.”

And down under, this is spring.

#31 JessicaJ on 12.03.11 at 12:28 am

Received an email today with the following subject: “Free Government Money Seminar in Toronto.” Guess the realtors are getting desperate.
Love your blog Garth!

#32 T.O. Bubble Boy on 12.03.11 at 12:34 am

Every RE Agent’s dream clients:

1) going over their $550k budget by $68k
2) getting caught in a bidding war for a burbs house
3) rushing to buy a house in 120 days because “baby on the way needs his own room”

#33 nonplused on 12.03.11 at 1:17 am

Still reading Garth, thought I’d check in.

That developer in Cochrane is essentially selling the house for 571,000. (580 but you get a $9,000 “grant”). But it does help skirt the 5% down rule. Used car dealers have been using this trick for years if the buyer needed financing. (Sell a $7,000 car for $10,000, and then do the paperwork as if you received a $3,000 down payment even if you have to front the cash yourself; you get it back.)

It’s just more evidence that laws do not work. Only a fair interest rate can stop the corruption in the system. Raise the overnight rate to 4-5% and all the shenanigans will stop overnight. But they aren’t going to do that. A 4% rate would put a stop to the government shenanigans as well. Example: Europe.

The fact is there is no way to stop the effects of a manipulation of the markets, even by a central bank, through regulation. To stop the effects, you have to stop the manipulation.

Pass a law tomorrow that says that the central bank can only hold gold and AAA rated government paper (bonds and t-bills) at market rates, but only in an amount that sufficiently backs the required money supply, and you would have normalcy by Thursday. But Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday would be complete pandemonium in the markets. And Friday the government and the banks would be insolvent. It is the latter part they are trying to avoid at all cost, much to the detriment of the rest of us.

PS, I personally know a builder in Cochrane (not the one you mentioned). They are still printing money like crazy, the prices in the used home market being so much over what it cost them to build. And it ain’t cheap to build in Alberta with the oil patch sucking up all the labour.

The grant is 9%, not $9,000. On a $580,000 home that is $52,200. — Garth

#34 bridgepigeon on 12.03.11 at 1:31 am

Good morning Nosty: Your assignment, should you choose to accept it; bill S 1897, which just passed in the Senate. The implications of this are astounding. Good luck.

#35 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.03.11 at 1:32 am

Euro Banks The rally is due partly to — “But , then , we’ll be back to work , digging in next year for this big deal of a rally that The Fed made possible , with our money.”; The Fruits of Globalization Dominance, regression; 09 August 2007 Where were you and what were you doing? Good on Greece! Still lets Iran’s oil flow; Giving Money Away Reparations for what the Brits. did in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries? China 1, US 0 Re: Brazil.

Charts of the day, Lost a mind, 10:02 clip Bob Janjuah, Not much hope, Statistics.
Is The Sun Dying? Unclear. Lotsa strange stuff happening; 2:01 clip FAA says metal not from any known aircraft; Politicians rage at each other, and David Cameron doesn’t care for Germany – France’s new EU; Like Water for Chocolate 70% of supply will soon be GM; Putin Getting things in order.

High Blood Sugar Speeding aging along; Iodine Seems good for health; Pakistan NATO really pissed them off; The US govt. has gone rogue (Op/Ed).

#36 DonDWest on 12.03.11 at 1:40 am

Garth, I’m curious, what is your opinion of real estate in Mahone’s Bay, Nova Scotia? (Just do a quick MLS read on the area to see what I mean)

Almost as good as Lunenburg. — Garth

#37 jess on 12.03.11 at 1:43 am

the vulture is upset by the truth?

Romney’s Billionaire Threatens BBC Investigative Reporter
Friday 2 December 2011
by: Greg Palast, Truthout | Author Commentary

#38 Tim on 12.03.11 at 1:45 am

Maybe you can take a military helicopter from Windsor to TO to get there faster- ask Peter Mackay how he’s pissing away taxpayers money. Harper lied- once again- for him lol

#39 new-era on 12.03.11 at 2:39 am

BC Umemployment climbs 7%

Listened to several business owner complaining about rising rents and companies struggling to make end meet.

I say too bad so sad, BC is a place for the rich, get out of here you poor bastards.

Just remember, Government doesn’t bring in money, the foreign investor buying houses don’t bring in money or employ people. The heart and soul of Capitalism is these private sector. An elimination of the mom and pop companies will eventually reduce government revenues meaning less government jobs.

I can’t wait until the home owners gets their property taxes this spring with the increase of 2%.
At 4% pt + utility increases, that will be equivelent to 2 to 4 months of rent.

#40 Stevenson on 12.03.11 at 2:42 am

2 hours away?? More like 3.5 hours away from Toronto, but nice try making it sound closer to GTA.

No idea where you get your numbers from, but either way do you have any idea how many percent the RE has inflated the past few years? Far more then 11%. If what you say is true then that’s the worst it will get since Windsor is pretty much the Detroit of Canada where rhe only industry is automotive.

Expect Vancouver or GTA to correct 10-15%? Good luck with that. Even If that happens people who bought last year already have that covered. If they sell they cant cover the transaction costs… Oh no let’s panic and all sell?

Let’s face it. Some of you took the wrong advice.

#41 Van guy smokin now on 12.03.11 at 2:58 am


Is there such thing as good news to you? You seem to always have a bitter answer to any topic supporting real estate success.

#42 Foggy on 12.03.11 at 4:11 am

You can drive to Windsor in 2 hours? I’m a 120 kph guy and I get there in 4 hrs from the GTA, while keeping a fearful eye open for the polizei. Must be nice to own a McClaren F1…

Anyway still patiently waiting for your Nova Scotia expose you promised a month or two ago.

#43 ChinaSimon on 12.03.11 at 5:38 am

Thanks Garth, I had been hoping for sometime that you would post comments about the Australian housing market and how that economy is so similar to Canadas’. There is a fierce and almost psychopathic determination amongst Australians to purchase property and hence prices did explode due to easy credit, ridiculous zoning laws in suburban centres and all the other reasons mentioned by yourself.
Now in Australia we have a huge chunk of the population entering retirement and the rest have huge mortgages and live hand to mouth. Sure we have a swelling national superfund but the suits in power are posturing to have more of say where those funds are invested and of course infrastructure projects are top of the list.
In Australia we just sell dirt to developing countries, and have developed a pristine white “service” economy to replaced that so unnecessary and dirty manufacturing sector. Now employed are so many financial and insurance planners, tourist agency assistants, tax collectors, politicians, sales agents, traffic cops, etc but nobody knows how to make a damn toothbrush anymore yet alone something a tad more useful.
On top of that Australians have some of the highest house prices in the world and everybody is maxxed out on credit but of course it is different here.

#44 BC Boy on 12.03.11 at 5:43 am

Sometimes you wonder who is paying Garth to spend so much time on the daily basis to keep this blog going? Yours to Discover!

No pay. Just passion. — Garth

#45 Habbit on 12.03.11 at 7:10 am

Mr. Lahey. Thanks for the invite. Sorry to say I will not be able to make it. Will the CBC be there? If not, would it be possible to tape the festivities? Thanks.

#46 Wim on 12.03.11 at 7:53 am

From Australia I thought I’d give an update to our insanity.

$7,000 covered the introduction of a federal GST (Goods and Services Tax around 1999) and was referred to as the FHOG (first home owners grant).

Then came the GFC and federal government doubled it to $14,000 for established homes and tripled it to $21,000 for new homes – the FHOB (first home owners boost).

The state government also decided to add money. Shown below (badly formatted) are the total amounts of taxpayers money given to first time buyers in the state of Victoria (it includes the both state and federal amounts).

The maximum came to the whopping total of $36,500.

Contract Date (1 July 2009 – 30 September 2009)
Conditions First Home Owner Grant (FHOG) New First Home Owner Boost First Home Bonus First Home Owner Regional Bonus Total
Established homes only $7,000 $7,000 $2,000* $0.00 $16,000
Newly constructed homes in Metropolitan Victoria only $7,000 $14,000 $11,000* $0.00 $32,000
Newly constructed homes in Regional Victoria only $7,000 $14,000 $11,000* $4,500* $36,500
*For contracts entered into between 1 July 2009 to 30 June 2010, the value of the property must not exceed $600,000.

Read more:

#47 T.O. Bubble Boy on 12.03.11 at 8:30 am

@ #46 Wim

From Australia I thought I’d give an update to our insanity.

Then came the GFC and federal government doubled it to $14,000 for established homes and tripled it to $21,000 for new homes – the FHOB (first home owners boost).

The maximum came to the whopping total of $36,500.

So, not only do Australian Tax Laws encourage “negative gearing” (continually writing off losses on an investment property with the goal of eventually realising the capital gain), but the Government also gave away up to $36,500?

I know that Australia was settled by large numbers of criminals from Britain, but who knew that they still write the laws!!!

#48 yorel on 12.03.11 at 8:37 am

Harper, Harper, Harper.. We should have all voted for the NDP. We know how they are against the government giving people money. Or, who was it, again? Oh yes, the Liberals, where are they these days, anyway?

#49 big T on 12.03.11 at 8:58 am

its always possible that house prices reflect the true
inflation rate, and are for real, if the cost of building
as remained about the same percentage of sales price,
then that is the price, maybe its consumers incomes,
based on phony inflation rates that are the problem,
with the movement of people, and cash via immigrants,
the inflation rate for basics, like housing will be set by
off-shore has gone from a domestic, to an
international demand for canadian housing..

#50 Newbie Investor on 12.03.11 at 9:11 am

Hey Garth, love the piece on MonTerra!
I helped a partnership to build a couple of complete flops in that development back in 08′ 09′. It was trumped up to be the next Elbow Valley, nothing under a mil. After wave after wave of issues one house was completed (to the highest Alberta new home warranty standards as it was assumed that those standards would be upheld to all builders) and sat on for 3 years (sold this spring 1.6m), and the other is still a plywood mcmansion. A young inexperienced developer with promises of a lavish development, led to a mosquito infested ghost town with sewer lines built too high for a development built on a swamp.
Oh and the partnership? I think their still in court….. This will not end well, great post Garth!

#51 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 9:13 am

It’s funny how bigarider and nonna nicola both disappear at the same time.

And where would this weblog be without Beach girl’s and Smoking man’s trite wisdom. ;-)

#52 Dc on 12.03.11 at 9:19 am

I live in windsor and 1) its 3.5 hours to toronto, 2) like 5 hours to chicago, 3) the cheap real estate is in the worst neighbourhoods – slums and crackhouses – you might not get paid rent, 4) if you have a good job life is great but there isn’t that many great jobs in this city, 5) there are some good jobs in detroit but a) you need a work visa, b) need to cross border everyday to get to work, c) once you cross the border usually you still have a 25 min drive; 6) an alright house is from $200k, 7) and most people in windsor would rather live in st. clair beach / tecumseh / belle river

#53 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 9:50 am

This huge Toronto condo is priced at only $260/sq foot, a 40-50% discount to other condos?

Only $848,000 for 3,257 sq feet.

And here’s why:

Maintenance Fee:


#54 Cow Man on 12.03.11 at 9:53 am

#21 Mr. Obvious

It will cost $2000 to get the 120 year old Basswood tree removed from the corner of the lot before it falls on the house.

#55 Not Fooled By Property Spruikers Hype on 12.03.11 at 10:02 am

Thought you guys might like to look at a Million Dollar Property mistake by a Professional Property Fixerupper & Flipper in Perth Western Australia.

Hey keep your chins up yes we are beating you guys to the bottom but you never know you could always catch up.

Gee Wizz were not that smug the Irish beat us both.

#56 T.O. Bubble Boy on 12.03.11 at 10:05 am

I’ve found the hidden gem of the Toronto Real Estate market: 2-bedroom detached houses!

Apparently the buyers of 2-bedroom houses are so wealthy that they are blind to the price… how else could you explain:

$700k for this place on a 19-ft wide lot that doesn’t even have a finished basement


$1M for this place (which is apparently in “Great Condition”, but has no photos of the inside)

#57 UK Love Calling on 12.03.11 at 10:32 am

American ingenuity at its finest… Raw, fresh, progressive, testing the limits, confident, empowered, don’t-give-a-damn attitudes. This is why they’ll always be #1!!! You don’t get this quality and talent from some Justin Beiber poser on the loser cruiser.

Care to take a guess why? The U.S. is always at the forefront of it all from music to fashion to real estate to politics. Including bubbles and recoveries. The U.S. is not going to fail and it is not going to lose its global status as THE place to be. Canada’s about 7 years behind the times. The RE bubble is deflating in Canada and it is going to gain momentum just like it is in Australia. So for all those Canadians who are so superior and think you will not experience what everyone else already has, you need to stop and consider that the RE industry is being pealed layer by layer and day by day all throughout your country. I give it a year tops before crisis in Canada is seen.

#58 cxcroney on 12.03.11 at 10:33 am

#38 Tim
Harper didn’t lie. Peter was on government business and as Defence Minister did a damn good job of defending his constituents from all those lobster claws. His dad would be ashamed.

#59 UK Love Calling on 12.03.11 at 10:45 am

I’ve got the Gossip! Listen up, pop goes the WORLD

#60 Eyes wide open on 12.03.11 at 10:50 am

The greater fools continue to flock in Toronto. This is a direct quote from a local real estate agent’s email received yesterday; “Did you know that you could get free money from the Federal Government for your down payment if you were going to buy a home in Toronto in 2012?”. To further confuse matters we saw a MLS listing for a house we had made an offer on in October 2010. The house is currently priced at $839,000. There is no evidence or mention of renovations or improvements done in the last year yet the price has jumped a staggering $190,000.
Last year we walked away from a $640,000 deal on this house due to false zoning information provided by the real estate agent. The house is zoned as a single family dwelling with a complaint recorded at the bylaw office of it being used as a rooming house. We also spoke to the ‘handy man’ working next door and he warned us of lack of building permits and a history of short cuts and shoddy workmanship.

We continued to search for a house to buy but were astonished by the aggressive bidding wars for sagging frame and timber homes with flashy pillows and perfumed candles. After reading this blog, as well as other forecasts of the dim future of the real estate market, we decided to take a step back from home ownership and we currently rent a beautiful house in one of our desired neighbourhoods.
I will continue to read this blog rather than regret the potential cashing in on flipping a flawed house to another greater fool. Thank you Garth.

#61 Eyes wide open on 12.03.11 at 10:54 am

Neglected to mention in #57 that the house was converted into a four apartment dwelling.

#62 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 11:04 am

Load of bunk. For example, we were told that amalgamation of Toronto boroughs would help us (now, the city is broke), or unity of European nations would be the great (they are now broke).

Amalgamation of TSX, Alpha exchanges, and the CDS (Canadian Depository of Securities)? This will not end well:

“The Financial Post reports in its Friday edition that a previously obscure securities clearing and settlement utility grabbed a large share of public hearings into the takeover of TMX Group on Thursday. The Post’s Barbara Shecter writes that Luc Bertrand, the face of TMX suitor Maple Group Inc. admitted it would be a deal breaker if his group of financial services companies were denied approval to buy CDS Ltd. With approval from the federal Competition Bureau now less than assured, he offered to put a proposed “for-profit” pricing model for CDS in front of the Ontario Securities Commission for approval. It is “critically important” that regulators scrutinize Maple Group’s plan to take over TMX Group Inc. because of the importance of the exchange group’s assets to the “proper functioning” of Canada’s capital markets, said Howard Wetston, chairman of the Ontario Securities Commission. Mr. Wetston said particular attention will be paid to issues such as the impact on market structure and competition of Maple’s plans. Executives speaking for Maple and TMX told Mr. Wetston and the OSC commissioners that their transactions will lead to efficiencies and benefits for all capital markets participants.
© 2011 Canjex Publishing Ltd.”

#63 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 11:22 am

p.s. we were told NAFTA was the answer. And now all the car companies are building plants in Mexico.

A little hint for y’all: whenever the Capital Class talks about mergers for better “effeciencies”, they mean WE are the inefficiences that must be dealt with.

Same old song and dance, the robberbarrons use the press to sell us. Never forget: Wars must be sold to us.

#64 down and out on 12.03.11 at 11:25 am

Any more rain and most of Windsor and Essex county will be flooded which will only make unoccupied homes mold traps .Sad what has happened down here to home prices and if futures cuts happen to auto industry and budding wind and solar shops(too many now), expect even more price reductions.

#65 Cowboy on 12.03.11 at 11:30 am

I have been following this website for almost 4 years (it must have been shortly after it began) I keep telling people about the real estate bubble and then get disappointed. I am not talking about it anymore. Also, it is very possible any mild correction in Calgary could take a year or two longer since there is so much building going on. “Things are looking good”-Fact
I am not saying it will last forever but Calgary will probably still have expensive houses for years to come!!!

#66 SLN on 12.03.11 at 11:56 am

#21 Mr. Obvious..
and let’s not discount the Windsor Hum..

#67 johnny5z on 12.03.11 at 11:57 am

Whatever happened to “macro prudential” fiscal and monetary policy? You know what “macro prudential” means, don’t you?
Turn down the music,
Turn up the lights,
Water the beer.

#68 cxcroney on 12.03.11 at 12:02 pm

In the headlines yesterday Harper calls for “accountability ” from native bands. Ya right. Clements, Mackay,etc. Good one, Steve!

#69 Herb on 12.03.11 at 12:02 pm

Is it just another conspiracy theory or a description of what was and is going on? –

#70 T.O. Bubble Boy on 12.03.11 at 12:06 pm

This is interesting… calculating “affordability” by looking at what percentage of recent home sales the median income in that region could afford:

I wonder what RBC’s “affordability” analysis would show if they used this methodology?

Toronto’s median household income in 2010 was $77,685:

Using the completely unrealistic inputs of:
>> $6474/month gross income
>> $0 debt
>> $300/month property taxes
>> $100/month heating costs
>> $25,000 down payment
>> 4% mortage and 25-yr amortization

The CMHC calculator for affordability gives you about $342,797 as the max house price.

So – let’s go shopping with that $343k!

Looking at the 2011 year-to-date sales (as of October):

The % of detached home sales between $0 and $399k = 11159/36905 = 30.3% of total detached home sales. If you look at $0-$299k, the % drops to 11%.

So, with that $343k that is affordable with the median household income, the percentage of detached homes falling in that range would be about 20%-25%.

If you include all housing types (i.e. condos, townhouses, etc.), you get 52% between $0-$399k and 25% between $0-$299k, so the percentage is likely in the 30%-40% range under $343k.

What does this all mean?

Well – apparently the U.S. is at 72.9% now, and five years ago (at the peak of 2006) this was down at 40.4%.

So, Toronto’s affordability for the median household is worse now than the U.S. was at the peak of their bubble… even when you include condos – which probably aren’t useful to those 50% of Toronto housholds with 3 or more people.

Yet another sign that we’re collectively out of our minds when it comes to RE prices.

#71 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 12:25 pm

Which version of our forum host’s likeness will appear on the upcoming (hopefully) comemerative postage stamp?

Long and wild-haired (fresh from a Harley ride?), seen in this video:

Or the TV trimmed verison, seen here:

(Shades of the Elvis postage stamp debate!)

#72 Kurt on 12.03.11 at 12:33 pm

#19 Need advice –
First, where are you located? You probably want to work with a local office.
Second, your choice of lawyer may be restricted by conflict of interest – your lawyer may already have your employer as a client.
Third, what’s it really worth to you? If you’ve been there a long time and you get paid serious coin, it could be worth the aggravation of litigation. If not, the right answer is to find another job *right now*. Don’t let either ego or fear push you into something that is against your best interests.

I’ve recently had contact with Burnet, Duckworth and Palmer in Calgary but ultimately did not need their services. They are downtown in Cow Town so they aren’t cheap, but the people I dealt with were pleasant and open to new business. Their employment lawyers are listed on their web site.

#73 coaster on 12.03.11 at 1:02 pm

The correction is definitely lapping at the shores of Victoria. There has been an increase in low end bungalows breaking under $400,000 for the first time in a couple of years. They may be shacks, bad flip jobs, or tear downs, but price breaks on long term support levels is a major sign the first time buyer is either backing off for economic reasons or not able to qualify for F’s free CMHC scam bucks.

#74 live within your means on 12.03.11 at 1:04 pm

DonDWest on 12.03.11 at 1:40 am
Garth, I’m curious, what is your opinion of real estate in Mahone’s Bay, Nova Scotia? (Just do a quick MLS read on the area to see what I mean)
Almost as good as Lunenburg. — Garth
Suspect you’re being facetious Garth.

#42 Foggy on 12.03.11 at 4:11 am

Anyway still patiently waiting for your Nova Scotia expose you promised a month or two ago.
Do you live in NS Foggy? Must have missed that post.

I live in Dartmouth. Our assessment doubled in the last 10 years. We bought in ’91 for $116,500 and have a 12,179 sq. ft. lot. in a good area. We have made many renovations (+ lots of landscaping) during that time, but, AFAIK, did not ‘need’ permits. Maybe the municipality just assumes we did renos. It’s currently assessed at $250,700, but we have an ‘Applicable Market or Capped Assessment of $191,500. We pay a little over $2,500. in mun. taxes. I don’t know how that compares to other municipalities. BTW, our home is assessed as the 2nd lowest on our end of the st. When they opened & created a cul-de-sac on out street sev. years ago, those houses were selling in the $450-500K range. Yes, with the fake stone fronts.

Realize that a house is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay.

#75 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 1:13 pm



Scotiabank Q4 profit up 11% to $1.24 billion

Royal Bank Q4 net income rises 16% to $1.6 billion

TD Bank profit soars 58%

#76 live within your means on 12.03.11 at 1:13 pm

“Being an occasional compilation of stuff for people who read this pathetic blog on Saturdays because they have no life.”

That’s me. Saturday’s are for doing loads of laundry, dishes, cooking, etc., to take advantage of lower electricity rates. :-)

#77 BPOE on 12.03.11 at 1:21 pm

But Garth, Junius, The American continue to say foregin ownership has a negligible affect. Give your head a shake. The numbers and prices tell the story

#78 Mister Obvious on 12.03.11 at 1:23 pm

#54 Cow Man

“It will cost $2000 to get the 120 year old Basswood tree removed from the corner of the lot before it falls on the house.”

Excellent observation C.M. and I thank you for that. The tree is a monster and I’ll bet it annually fills the gutters with crap. Sometimes it is really is helpful to ask the opinion of the dawgs.

I don’t know about Windsor, but in the City of Burnaby, for example, it is nearly impossible to get a permit to remove a healthy mature tree on your own land. You must either get a licensed arborist to declare the tree diseased (and therefore a safety risk) or else pay someone off at city hall. Neither is it certain whether or not the tree in this case sits partially on city land.

None of this is to say the tree actually would fall down but they do get some wicked weather in that part of Ontario.

I think the cost of $2000 to remove it is probably conservative since telephone and power wire seems to run almost through it. Furthermore, any curb appeal that little house has (not much) would vanish as soon as the tree was gone. Especially if it fell on the house.

#79 Keeping the Faith on 12.03.11 at 1:24 pm

#40 Stevenson (and similar posters) = The Canadian ‘Herman Cain’:

a) Delusional that people will not find out the truth one day
b) Convinced himself that he is relevant to the dialogue
c) Will soon be wiped from our short-term memory

Stevenson, by the time 2012 is upon us you will be on the slippery side of the downslope and it’s going to be a long way down.

You’re an IDIOT!

#80 maxx on 12.03.11 at 1:42 pm

#19 Need advice – thanks in advance for all that respond on 12.02.11 at 11:36 pm

See #22- good advice. Also, a lawyer could be the best investment you ever make. Again, have lots of facts handy, with dates, details, conversations, emails, etc. You could very well not even have to go to court. Your lawyer should be compatible as well as sympathetic. Choose carefully and get one with LOTS of pertinent experience.
Downsizing came for a visit years ago and the legal investment paid back many, many times over.

#81 live within your means on 12.03.11 at 1:43 pm

Invited a neighbour in for a drink last eve. She drinks Coke. Her son, DIL and their 2 youngins moved in w/her till after Xmas when they move into their new home. Son bought a 1/2 small bed house 8 yrs ago for $68K in not the best area. Did renos over the years and sold it for $168K, but left the new ‘virgin’ buyers all the appliances, plus a huge built in flat screen TV in the basement. Buyer’s RE agent complained that he found a couple of boxes (kid’s clothing) in the attic 2 days before closing. Seller never used the attic as it was too difficult to access. He told the RE agent to shove it. Anywho, they bought a new built home a few from us. His Mom said it’s nice but a typical ‘cookie cutter’ 2011 style. We’ll be invited to see it after they move in.

#82 Junius on 12.03.11 at 1:54 pm

#43 ChinaSimon,

There has always been a lot of posts on this Blog from people from Australia led by Aussie Roy. The similarities between Australia and Canada have been pointed out on numerous occasions and remain relevant.

They include the usual “it is different here” bromides, similar demographic data as well as a high dependence on commodities for revenue. The slow down in China will heavily impact us both.

#83 Elmer on 12.03.11 at 2:07 pm

You can drive to Windsor in 2 hours? I’m a 120 kph guy and I get there in 4 hrs from the GTA

He obviously meant flying, DUH.

#84 The thing in the basement on 12.03.11 at 2:10 pm

43 ChinaSimon – thanks for you Aussie perspective. My question for you is when you speak of “ridiculous zoning laws” can you give an example? What I want to see is in what way they are ridiculous. Thanks.

#85 Junius on 12.03.11 at 2:29 pm

One of the best articles I have read in a long time between the historical relationship between debt and society. The article shows that far from being a recent phenomenon, the notion of controlling the population through debt has many historical examples. Academic but well worth the read.

Here it is:

#86 Junius on 12.03.11 at 2:33 pm

#77 BPOE,

What happened to “Richmond is invincible and full of the best restaurants in the world?” Your message always changes to fix what you think are the facts.

Just keep pumping. It is all you know how to do.

#87 Junius on 12.03.11 at 2:40 pm

#69 Herb,

Good find on the video. Very similar message to the post I just made from Michael Hudson on Naked Capitalism.

Hedges is very smart. You will recall he is the one who exposed Kevin O”Leary for the _______(fill in adjective here) that he is on a CBC interview.

#88 Timing is Everything on 12.03.11 at 2:42 pm

Author Garth Turner says mortgage insurance has removed the risk for lenders and given borrowers a status they would not get for any other investment. – FP

Hey Garth, just had an idea…’Greater Fool : The Movie’

#89 HolyCow on 12.03.11 at 2:46 pm


Housing: After the Bubble Bursts

#90 Calgary's OK on 12.03.11 at 2:47 pm

“Homes in the MonTerra Development (starting price $580,000) are now available for free.”

“The grant is 9%, not $9,000. On a $580,000 home that is $52,200. — Garth”

So $580,000 – $52,200 = $ 527,800 which depending on the size of the house, sounds about right for that area. How did you figure they “are now available for free.”?

House for no money = free. — Garth

#91 Van guy smokin now on 12.03.11 at 3:02 pm

At $165,000 avg price for Windsor, what was the peak avg price for sfh?

#92 Fabrega on 12.03.11 at 3:07 pm

#39 New Era

BC’s economy is a disaster dude. Thank the liberals morons starting with Campbell the “new era” guy.

#93 Not 1st on 12.03.11 at 3:29 pm

Anyway to get the 9% grant and then walk on the house?

Just what I’d expect from you. — Garth

#94 Daisy Mae on 12.03.11 at 3:34 pm

“Both are big, sparsely-populated countries….and, apparently, run by idiots.”


You said it….

#95 john on 12.03.11 at 3:56 pm

the whole world debt experiment is going to end badly and unfortunately it looks like the savers are going to bear the brunt of it…….just look at the confiscation of pension funds going on in Europe…….how safe will our RRSPs and the US’s 401ks going to be…….gonzo…..Garth your thoughts?

Safe as your mama’s arms. — Garth

#96 Alberta Boy on 12.03.11 at 4:03 pm

In Edmonton Condo Prices fell about 8% or $20,000 in the last for months, Calgary condo prices tumbled over $20,000 also.

Calgary & Edmonton condo prices sit BELOW 2006average price levels now & continue to slowly go down. What a terrible investment it is for soooo many people to have lost equity after 5 years! The real estate market is going down the toilet while Oil Prices rise? Why? Because we are so in debt here in Alberta the consumer & mortgage debt remains 100% repayable. Foreclosures starting to rise in Edmonton & Calgary while most places in Canada they are going down do to the cheap interest rates-which will end in the new year!

#97 Another Albertan on 12.03.11 at 4:04 pm

It’s been a number of month since I’ve posted. I’ve been pre-occupied with doing my share to keep the economy growing and have been out of the country. I see that

It’s Corporate Calgary Christmas party season now and the real estate anecdotes of years gone by are nowhere to be found. If anything, the conversations are even more vacuous than normal (and, hey, RE chats are pretty empty at the best of times…)

If anything, some are peeping about unloading their investment/speculative properties by spring. It would appear that the incalculable rates of return are being polluted by the nebulous value of owner’s elbow grease and undermined by 4 to 8 weeks per year of no rental income. That Toronto CA from yesterday? His ilk are legion.

Everyone else’s mileage may vary.

#98 Bill Gable on 12.03.11 at 4:34 pm


Mahone Bay is 110 KM from Halifax.

It’s a summer area – because believe me it is one dead place in the winter.
Bridgewater is closest big town.
Lunenburg is lovely – but homes were built years ago and you are looking at mega projects to bring some of the homes into the 20th, never mind the 21st, Century.

Great to visit – nice people – RE – radioactive = PASS/

#99 Westernman on 12.03.11 at 4:59 pm

You are right about the liberals in B.C. In addition, if you notice, ANYWHERE liberals get in charge of things it soon goes down the crapper… each and EVERY time without fail.
Liberalism is a disease – every society that has adopted it has been ruined without exception.

#100 Spiltbongwater on 12.03.11 at 5:18 pm

Is that your bike Garth, and are those geriatric 1 foot in the graves are the Amazonians you keep alluding to? I expected better of a financial guru such as yourself if that is the case.

#101 live within your means on 12.03.11 at 5:55 pm

#86 Junius on 12.03.11 at 2:33 pm
#77 BPOE,

What happened to “Richmond is invincible and full of the best restaurants in the world?” Your message always changes to fix what you think are the facts.

Just keep pumping. It is all you know how to do.

BPOE obviously has travelled.

#102 live within your means on 12.03.11 at 5:58 pm

Oops – Mean’t to say BPOE hasn’t obviously travelled.

#103 live within your means on 12.03.11 at 6:00 pm

#94 Daisy Mae on 12.03.11 at 3:34 pm
“Both are big, sparsely-populated countries….and, apparently, run by idiots.”


You said it….


I read that comment to my DH this am – we had a good laugh.

#104 Dave on 12.03.11 at 6:03 pm

The original showhomes in Monterra were over 1.5mil in 2006. Nowhere near that now. I looked at a foreclosure there a month ago. The owner had bought it for $850k a year earlier. The bank ended up selling it for $590k. I’d stay away from Monterra, prices will be dropping more once they open up the next phase where they said the homes will start at $350k.

#105 Timing is Everything on 12.03.11 at 6:14 pm

Windsor’s population is still in decline, of course. High supply, low demand. Hence low home prices. It figures.

A slight reduction in area population does not explain house pries 50% the national average. Are you sober? — Garth

#106 InvestorsFriend (Shawn Allen) on 12.03.11 at 6:28 pm

House for no money = free. — Garth

Ummm, okay, whee, everything you buy on your credit card is also free then.

This zero down-payment house is NOT free just becasue someone threw in the down payment. Buyers are on the hook for the 91% of course.

Since when has that bothered a modern house buyer? — Garth

#107 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 6:39 pm

Smoking man is correct: every keystoke, every google search, every email IS recorded, stored, and filtered. Keep in mind we are using military techology – the internet was developed by early 1970s for military use.

We always get their technology a few years later. After Sept 11th we got the google topographic/birds eye city mapping functions (ideal technology for directing flying objects…or maybe you think a bunch of failed student Cessna pilots hand flew a Boeing 757 down to a few feet above the ground for a perfect hit on their first try. But I digress).

Software on Android phones ‘tracking every key stroke’

Software installed on millions of Android phones is thought to be secretly tracking every key stroke, Google search, and text message by their users, it has been claimed.

#108 The thing in the basement on 12.03.11 at 6:58 pm

66 SLN – it could be Garth riding the Harley lookin for RE deals being followed by the amazons playin tunes in the hummer. Rmble rumble thumpa thumpa hummmmmm

#109 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 12.03.11 at 7:17 pm

@#77 BPOE
Your skills are amazing! You CAN type while balancing a Watermelon on your Head! ( Sorry folks, I cant divulge WHY BPOE has a Watermelon balancing on his Head because its our dirrrrrty little secret……).
Any who,
BPOE, your next challenge, if you wish to accept it. Involves a plastic potato gun, jello, a spaghetti strainer, laxatives, a large plastic sheet ,and , finally, a roll of Duct tape.
If you care to accept this diabolically perverse endeavour please leave an ad in the Georgia Straight under the “Backyard Chickens for Sale” column. Merely use the phrase, “I’m a shill for the Real estate industry” so I know its you and not some other “fake” BPOE.
Hugs and Kisses as always my little cherub.

#110 Junius on 12.03.11 at 7:17 pm

#99 Westernman,

You said, “ANYWHERE liberals get in charge of things it soon goes down the crapper… each and EVERY time without fail.”

How do you explain the fact that in the US the economy was better under Clinton before it was destroyed by the Conservative/Republican Bush?

Or the same situation in Canada where Paul Martin created a a surplus but Harper and the Cons have created a housing bubble.

You are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts. You are wrong (again).

#111 Timing is Everything on 12.03.11 at 7:28 pm

But wait there’s more…It’s all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows in Alberta. Ponies for everyone…


A slight reduction in area population does not explain house pries 50% the national average. Are you sober? — Garth

Agreed, but it explains some of it. Why the decline? I suspect the (un)employment reality is even worse…

Oh ya, the Canadian RE market is not rational either. A neighbour is subdividing….

Unfortunately, I am sober.

#112 Westernman on 12.03.11 at 7:42 pm

Your mind is too small, too limited, too restricted by political labels. Liberalism is a mindset – Clinton was not a liberal in fact – he got the tag by being a democrat…his mindset was more conservative(in the traditional sense).
Bush was just a puppet who did a jig when his masters pulled the strings (labels are irrelevant when applied to him).
And as far as Canadian politics go- who cares? The country is in control of about 2% of the worlds equity markets ( for all you Canadians out there that means money). We don’t really have a country in fact… when the U.S. wants something from us they merely pick up the phone and call Ottawa to place the order.
So there you have your grown-up talk letting you in on a few facts on how the world actually works, kid. You can go back to playing on facebook now.
Don’t make me waste any more of my valuable on trying to educate you… you are clearly not worth the effort.

#113 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.03.11 at 8:35 pm

What a delightfully dark Dec. post-noon day. Just for Garth — Hobos (Sad when Dogbert is pitching GS.)
#29 Snowboid — Pity. We could have used the ice for a beer / booze fest! never mind. Something else will come up. Cheers!

#34 bridgepigeon — Indeed. Along with #63 TurnerNation — “p.s. we were told NAFTA was the answer.” The link from a few nights ago said that NAFTA was going to be expanded from the west coast, intent on bringing the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. into a much greater version of NAFTA.

Guess this goes with Bill S 1897. I checked and found these — here and here.

Another to consider is — 11:35 clip Facebook (along with Google) is mass surveillance.

Consider the bigger picture. The EU is a collection of countries independently governed (for now). With one currency (Euro), which the US Fed is currently bailing out, the independence will be gone shortly, and a central govt. will be run from Brussels. Note that Belgium hasn’t had an elected govt. in over a year now.

With Obomba and Harpo turning NAmerica into a dictatorship / police state, building and maxing out prisons where possible, letting illegals come over the border (election next year, and Obomba needing another mandate to complete the destruction), TPTB are collecting up what is profitable for them, hence the new NAFTA / NAU / SPP.

China and Russia, along with their allies will dictate how far the west can go. Just my deux cents!

#48 yorel — “Harper, Harper, Harper.. We should have all voted for the NDP.” — That would have been a much better alternative than the control freak we’ve given a majority to now.

#105 Timing is Everything — “Are you sober? — Garth” — I sincerely hope not!

#114 thx bubble boy on 12.03.11 at 8:37 pm

for the analysis. Good insights there, thanks for that
#70 T.O. Bubble Boy on 12.03.11 at 12:06 pm
This is interesting… calculating “affordability” by looking at what percentage of recent home sales the median income in that region could afford……..

#115 Mister Sanity on 12.03.11 at 8:39 pm

#79 Keeping the Faith on 12.03.11 at 1:24 pm
#40 Stevenson (and similar posters) = The Canadian ‘Herman Cain’:

a) Delusional that people will not find out the truth one day
b) Convinced himself that he is relevant to the dialogue
c) Will soon be wiped from our short-term memory

Stevenson, by the time 2012 is upon us you will be on the slippery side of the downslope and it’s going to be a long way down.

You’re an IDIOT!


Keeping The Faith – no YOU’RE an idiot. Not everyone has to agree with you. Having some opposing viewpoints is what makes a debate constructive. What’s wrong with you? Mommy never disagree with her little boy and so he never learned what it’s like to have someone have a differing opinion?

Stevenson – although I don’t necessarily agree with many of your opinions, please keep sharing them! We need to hear both all sides to every story. And at the very least, you generate entertaining reponses, like when we get to see 20-year old know-it-alls like ‘Keeping the Faith’ lose it when you post a dissenting opinion.

#116 Herb on 12.03.11 at 9:07 pm

#87 and 110 Junius,

I thought of that interview when I watched Hedges. Trouble is, the slapdown was wasted on O’Leary and only gave the program and the CBC a bad rap.

When I read such nonsense as Westernman’s #99, I ask myself whether the source actually believes the expressed views, in which case he is to be pitied, or knows better but pushes them anyway in the hope of catching a few more unwary for the Conservative cause, in which case he is to be slapped down. Which you did nicely in Westernman’s case.

#117 Stinky Fish on 12.03.11 at 9:36 pm

Hey Garth

Just drank a bottle of winein 1 hour. Some might say i am classy but i dont think so.

I have money sitting i the bank to buy a house but dont wanna pay these prices. I can straight up but a house but choose not to. You k ow, why do people wanna make their death to their mortgage. Cant people see whats goi g on in the world?

Garth, you are powerful because what you are doing now. Unfoftuntaely, the econom in canada is decided by 1. Commodity prices

#118 Snowboid on 12.03.11 at 10:03 pm

#99 Westernman on 12.03.11 at 4:59 pm…

Clearly you are delusional! The current government can use whatever name it wants, it cannot hide the fact that it has far-right policies.

Policies that have almost destroyed the entire province, sold it to corporate interests for pennies on the dollar.

We should be so lucky to have a real Liberal government, but it will be the NDP that take charge in 2013.

Sadly they will be inheriting governance of a province near destruction by twelve years of the Gordie and Christie sellout team.

You should get out more, maybe you would have heard the story how the BC Con/SC alliance stole the Liberal party in the late 1990s.

Oh right, you were weren’t even born then!

#119 Junius on 12.03.11 at 10:40 pm

#112 Westernman,

The only education that you do hear is demonstrating the depth of ignorance that continues to exist on the right of the political spectrum.

You may be right about the hold that the world’s financial system has on our country. A situation your generation holds the brunt of e blame for. My Gen-X has had a front row seat.

You better hope that the Millenials don’t figure out the mess you and your so-called Conservatives have made of this world. They will make Occupy Wall Street’s efforts to date look like a picnic in the park. I were you I would start aquiring a taste for Cat Food.

#120 Junius on 12.03.11 at 10:41 pm

Sorry for the typos. Can’t get used to the iPad.

#121 Junius on 12.03.11 at 10:45 pm

#116 Herb,

I would pity Westerman except thst it is this sort of ignorance thst has got the world into such a mess. The dogmatic right wing and Conservative elite in the US first destroyed a once great Republican party, then the US media and now are set on the Constitution and what is left of democracy in America. We have to speak out against it or it will soon be too late.

#122 Tony on 12.03.11 at 10:48 pm

Australia sadly misjudged the world economy which will only get worst not better. By making the mistake of raising interest rates for no reason at all they caused the implosion of their own housing market. In a uniform population this would have never have happened. Hopefully they’ll learn but second chances may be many generations off in the future.

Albertan’s have nothing to lose when they put nothing down. Right now it’s far cheaper to buy than to rent and if things don’t work out they simply walk away.

#123 Westernman on 12.03.11 at 10:52 pm

I think you should aqaint yourself with some history and you will find out that in fact I am correct and that liberalism has destroyed every single nation,society and/or civilization that has embraced it.
Eventually the never-got-thier-hands-dirty, humanities degreed, pseudo-marxists known by their politically correct name “liberals” destroy incentive,innovation,industry and the nation grinds to a halt when the ever-decreasing producers (taxpayers) finally succumb to the ever-increasing government handout hoard. Happens every single time. Try watching less CBC propaganda and stick your long nose in a history book once in a while.

#124 Junius on 12.03.11 at 10:59 pm

Shhhhh. Don’t tell Westernman but the Stock market has grown nearly twice as much under Democratic Presidents as it has under Republicans. See the article from Barrons below:

Of course, Black is White and White is Black in the Upside Down World of Westernman.

#125 BC Bring Cash on 12.03.11 at 11:07 pm

No excuses says the guy on the radio commercial. No HST, no land transfer tax. Don’t have down payment. No problem. Project Build III will take care of all those inconvenient details for you deserving people out there.
Just like Cochrane Ab.

#126 gtrz4peace on 12.03.11 at 11:25 pm

Westernman — where in the “West” are you buddy? NOT in the US, my hometown, apparently. If you were, you would know that what has “destroyed” the US economy and the world economy was the deregulation of important laws that safeguarded against corporate abuses, mostly put into action under Republican rule but helped along by DNC stalwarts like the Clintons.

Also, let’s not forget about unpunished criminal activity by banking and wall street elites — and unfettered military spending. The over-reaching military thing has brought down a few empires too, like the Romans.

Anyway, due to the “stupid factor” and the completely broken system in the US you may see a coup there by your beloved Reicht Wing. Get your champagne ready I guess. But there’s an old saying about being careful what you wish for…

#127 Westernman on 12.03.11 at 11:33 pm

I don’t think I need to aquire a taste for cat food, and as for you “millenials” as far as I can tell about the only thing you are good for is farting around with I-pads and shite like that. 99% of you couldn’t even fix your own toilet for crying out loud – I don’t think I have anything to fear from “the millenials” on any level…and I do mean ANY level.

#128 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.03.11 at 11:47 pm

JPM and the Rothschilds “This 1895 contract between the US Treasury and the Rothschilds (plus JP Morgan himself, and his father) in which a small consortium of bankers saved the US Government from default and pretty much made America their bitch (which we’ve been ever since) might also be of interest.”; Bob Chapman “Of course Ben Bernanke has committed himself to funding all of the bad debts in Europe plus the US deficit and unlimited bad investments of the big New York banks. In short there is a massive inflation coming our way.”; OWS taking on the WH? Incurring Debts Children inherit parents’ debts.

Transfer of Wealth Bankers’ coups; The end of an empire; South Sea Bubble Period “I have made several references to the folly of the Great South Seas Company in my writings about the current Wall Street swindles. This article fills in more of the details.”; Euro doomed from start Which means it was pre-planned all along; China Unrest Of course, all China has to do is call it’s IOU’s from the US, then switch to their second currency; Blackmail Germany and France will isolate the UK if they don’t join up, same as they did to Ireland.
bridgepigeon and Turnernation — these are for you — Bailing out the Eurozone, Bill 1897 197-3 Police state US, new prisons for Canada, 4:03 clip Bill S 1897 and Police State; 9-11 with new stuff “And given that American citizens can be indefinitely detained or assassinated at the whim of the president, it is pretty clear that we now live in a police state.”; Vaccines from China, sold in Walmart; Cognitive Infiltration Cass Sunstein appointed; Hookers ‘R’ Us April Fools! Switzerland Downloading for personal use legal; Amnesty Int’l Good idea.

Aliens This not where Chaos, Disciple and I live; Pearl Harbor FDR knew in advance — Little Boy and Fatman weren’t necessary; Pakistan says “No way, Jose” to US; Newt Gingrich “This is like Al Gore saying he invented the internet.” Who invented Al Gore? Russia supplies cruise missiles to Syria, and The west’s plan for Syria “In both Europe and America the banksters are now running the government.”; CC “Actually, the ice is freezing at record rates.”; Planting Meals Actually, planting seeds to be less reliant on store-bought stuff; Drug Tunnels US – Mexico border, pix incl.; Suicide “For the second year (2010) in a row, more US soldiers killed themselves (468) than died in combat (462).”; Super Storms pound northern Europe; US$154 mln. divorce settlement.

#129 Westernman on 12.03.11 at 11:50 pm

I know,I know, your bitter because my generation has ruined it all for you and your generation (the man is keeping me down syndrome)
But it is with sorrow more than anger I regrettably have to inform you that thr reason your generation has such a miniscule piece of the economic pie is that your generation doesn’t add any value to society-and your economic success ( or in your case – lack of success ) is a direct result of, to put it in street language, your generation being, how shall I say, good for absolutely nothing of practical, useful value that society would pay for.
After all who needs a punk with a vicious, hard – done by attitude and an apptitude for operating worthless electronic gizmos?

#130 Oakviller on 12.04.11 at 12:57 am

Windsor Real Estate – be very careful, Windsor is a very Rough City. I was born in Windsor, left at 20yrs old. Returned for 3 yrs about 15 yrs ago. Bought a new house in Tecumseh, on the border of Windsor. Nice new area and we had male Stripper & Stripper/Film Star American (Detroit) wife move in neighbourhood. That was an experience to say the least. Hard to explain that to the kids. Also had 2 prison guards. They were No fun at all. Anyway Windsor has always been a Rough Town.
Buy that House on Chippawa… wish you luck collecting that rent. You don’t want to mess with some on the West Side of Windsor or the East end either.

Investment…. i wouldn’t risk my Money on any house in that area… they never go up much, even in good times & not sure when Windsor will see good times again.
It is to bad because there are alot of great people in that city, but it has been beaten down for so many years, most people who have left the area are so happy to have gotten out & do not want to ever return.

#131 "Need Advice" says thanks on 12.04.11 at 12:57 am

#22 Not 1st, #25 Toni, #72 Kurt, #80 Maxx
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice on my problem. Started looking for jobs and thinking about other alternatives. Debt management looks like an area with prospects and I am good with numbers and people. As for a lawyer I’ll probably need one as I have reason to believe they will not play fair and being in a far weaker position, some guidance could proof very valuable. What bothers me most is the psychological aspect of the whole situation. They know that I figured out what is going on and started putting a lot of pressure on me. The whole monti of demotivational strategies. Wish me luck!

#132 Keeping the Faith on 12.04.11 at 2:05 am

#115 Mister Sanity

Don’t be so ignorant.
People come here to “Hear both sides of the story”
What Stevenson spews everytime he posts is what can be bought… I mean read in any given newspaper/media outlet/RE sponsored weblink across Canada.

Wake Up.

If you have a difficult time with my harshness towards pumpers like Stevenson that continue to re-iterate stories/tales/lies that have caused this Canadian made RE Bubble, then I encourage you to glaze over my posts and please edit my use of words such as “Idiot” as it appears to hurt your emotional sensitivities. boo-hoo, please report me to the CRTC for using words that are of a “not-nice persuasion”

If you sense anger in my retorts it’s because you can read and yes I am angry.
I put down the opinions of Stevenson et all, that come to this blog to pump, I mean post, because they dangerously promote unsound financial practices, i.e. putting all their money in one asset class and praying, because these lies will hurt real people.
If this were a Healthy Living site and Stevenson were promoting smoking as a good alternative for healthy living I would also angrily respond to these posts as they work contrary to the intent of this site.

You may think that his ignorant points of view should be tolerated and encouraged like coddling a baby but this site is about providing balance when the world around us has gone mad. Go read the Stevensons of the Canadian media pump our RE into the ozone layer, just don’t try to muzzle my ability to call him an idiot for those views, especially when he posts them on Garths site.

The truth is that there are people out there that are looking for the other point of view beside the popular media propoganda and they come here to get it.
If they want to hear that RE flowers will once again bloom in 2012, 2013, 2014 … then listen to CREA, ReMax, Royal Lepage and the like, don’t try to censor me here on this site. You’ve got the wrong dog on the wrong day. Barqs has bite.

I’m not going to let the Stevensons on this blog continue to run their mouths while my cohorts of the 20+ generation are the ones that will ultimately be hurt and pay for this “last to the party” RE buying activity.

Go read the book Boomerang by Michael Lewis and focus on the Irish experience. The section discusses the banks part in the RE disaster over there but ultimately it’s the people of my generation that will pay disproportionately for the sins of their bankers.

You sir, Mister (so-called) Sanity, should keep your opinions to yourself if you can’t accept that dissenting opinion is alive and well in Canadian society. Pumpers will be uncovered and you also (for all I know you are Stevenson under a different alias) will be unemployed when your RE license lapses for lack of interest, lack of sales and for ultimately being apart of the I.O.R.E.M. (Idiots Occupying RE Movement) circa 2011.

Slan abhaile

#133 oneangryslav2 on 12.04.11 at 2:25 am

Westerman…you disappoint me! Your reading of Ayn Rand is lacking in analytical rigour. Back to the books, young man.

#134 Canadian Watchdog on 12.04.11 at 2:42 am

Here are some results I formulated today based on TREBs/BoC monthly data. I’m waiting on TREBs new report to complete a comprehensive study. Although housing is my least area of interest, TA is still the same in any sector and I’m curious to find the micro causes of rising house prices. My analysis is more based on disproving cause and effect.

TREB/BoC Monthly Data 1996-2011

GTA Average Detached Home Price Correlation To:
Transaction Sales 23.2%
Consumer Price Index 93.3%
Household Credit 92.8%

Household Credit Correlation To:
Transaction Sales 15.0%
Consumer Price Index 94.5%
GTA Average Home Price 92.8%

Consumer Price Index Correlation To:
Transaction Sales 20.3%
Household Credit 94.5%
GTA Average Home Price 93.3%

#135 crazed and a little confused on 12.04.11 at 3:27 am

Hi Guys,

I heeded garth’s advice a ittle bit and bought some good value stocks after researching. i know garth does n’t encourage individual investment esp for amateurs but it is hard to find advisors who u can trust and can answer your financial questions. more commercia banks advisors cannot tell you the diffeence between an ETF fund and the index traded mutual fund

however i did buy 2 stocks 1 is down 18 % and the other is up 24% both over 3.5 % dividends i used my money when i sold my barrick gold and manulife / marathon oil a few months ago…made some gain and moved on

i notice the municipal govt needs a lot ofmoney according to the voting ballet form . they were asking the pubic i they can borrow for the a)fire depart/police
b) transportation- bus/ roads/
c)can’t remember 3rd

the key word is BORROW. what? isn’t there money from taxes?? where did it all go?
they set up a number of these red light cams to pick up red light violators . Sike areas where there are hills/ and poor visisibility i agree . but when you are turning left is kinda of ridiculus . As you move to the turning lane you comnmited yourself while you are moving…i guess once it turns ye you have slamm on the breaks once it turns b/c it less than 3 seconds and it the yellow does not blink anymore. so you do not know how much time you have.
what real confusing are some lights blink others do not. so there is inconsistency as to when the yellow will turn to red . it is a cash grab for the most part. Some areas with steep hills/ poor visibility but others ….just pathetic

god help us …what happen to our country pandering for money and telling us …it for our safety of our city when we have so much woman being assaulted in lower mainland streets ….where are those cameras when we
need them. i sure they wood d worry if you told theassailants they are publicly recorded on said streets

so sad :(

#136 Excellent on 12.04.11 at 3:34 am

Almost all of you are idiots on this thread tonight. Worst conversation ever. What the hell ever happened to discussion and normal debate anyway? This place has gone in the gutter.

Do I really need to come back and kick your asses?

#137 Waterloo Resident on 12.04.11 at 4:01 am

#121 Tony:

You said: (“Albertan’s have nothing to lose when they put nothing down. Right now it’s far cheaper to buy than to rent and if things don’t work out they simply walk away.”)

Yes, that’s correct, but with one little hitch: Before they are allowed to walk away they have to go to a trustee in bankruptcy, pay a few thousand in legal fees, and declare personal bankruptcy. In the process they lose everything except their clothes, that means EVERYTHING. Car = gone, electronics = gone, everything they had accumulated over the years that had value = gone. So its not all that great, but at least they don’t have to keep making payments on a house that is worth far-less than what’s owed on it.

In the up-coming few years we may see more and more Canadians going this route and declaring personal bankruptcy.

#138 Aussie Roy on 12.04.11 at 4:49 am

Aussie Update

Nice piece on the current state of Aussie RE Garth, but down here ask anyone “she’ll be right, mate”.

What is that smell – Oh it’s Aussie Banks.

Banks profit margins to fall as home loans become less lucrative

THE big four banks have been quietly slashing thousands of back office jobs, drip-feeding the announcements to avoid adverse publicity.

AUSTRALIA’S major banks are facing pressure to draw up a “living will” showing how they would survive another global financial crisis.

Major banks face cash scrap

Not bad for a PRO RE story. How come this little gem was included?.

Mortgage buffer: 67% of mortgage holders have only two months’ wages or less as a buffer in their mortgage.

Ah the old “Minsky moment”.

Sales fall over in Brisbane property market as valuations drop


A developer in the Wenzhou province in China has come up with what some would argue is a desperate sales strategy.

The first 150 buyers who put down a small deposit for a unit in Central Mansions, a cluster of towers with 868 apartments in Wenzhou, will walk off with the keys to a brand new BMW.

Did I mention house prices never go down and it’s different here?.

#139 westcoast on 12.04.11 at 8:04 am

I’ve always been curious about the Windsor real estate market. Being from Vancouver, having the place turn into a grow-op is always a concern – especially being so far away. Does anyone know if buying a house by the University would be a good investment? Is there a healthy demand for student rentals within walking distance to the university? Or would something in the Downtown area be better?

#140 Herb on 12.04.11 at 9:47 am

#122 Westernman,

that’s funny. History happened to be my second major, and I did some grad work in it. But it was evidence-based history, and did not spring fully-armed from some twisted forehead.

#141 Herb on 12.04.11 at 10:16 am

Since the generation thing has cropped up again, here is a good article that blows away a bit of smoke on the generational conflict issue:

#142 Foggy on 12.04.11 at 10:23 am

@ 74 Live within your means:
Do you live in NS Foggy? Must have missed that post.
Yes I moved here 3 years ago and am retired. When I talk of the GTA it’s because I lived there previously.
My taxes here are less than half of yours because I’m out in the country in an older home. Car insurance is half of what I paid in Ontario.
The Garth post I was referring to is the one he posted around the date when they announced the big ship contract for Halifax. It’s in the archives.

#143 Herb on 12.04.11 at 10:30 am

Since the generation conflict has cropped up again, here is an article that blows away a bit of smoke on the issue:

#144 Herb on 12.04.11 at 10:33 am

Sorry about the double posting – Vista froze up again, so I turned off the computer and had another go.

#145 eaglebay - Parksville on 12.04.11 at 10:41 am

#92 Fabrega on 12.03.11 at 3:07 pm
#39 New Era

“BC’s economy is a disaster dude. Thank the liberals morons starting with Campbell the “new era” guy.”

Thanks to the blind tree huggers and some native bands.

#146 Cash is King on 12.04.11 at 10:43 am


Rentals around the U of W used to be a license to print money. However, within the last 10 years the U of W has built 2 residences which has greatly reduced rental demands. There are many old turn of the century / 1910’s houses in the area with 5, 6 & 7 bedrooms.

Still possible to make money, but it is harder to do.

#147 Daisy Mae on 12.04.11 at 11:17 am

SNOWBOID: “We should be so lucky to have a real Liberal government, but it will be the NDP that take charge in 2013. Sadly they will be inheriting governance of a province near destruction by twelve years of the Gordie and Christie sellout team.”


NDP in 2013? Bite your tongue. Up until now, whenever the NDP has been in power they’ve managed to almost destroy the province…and the Liberals have always had to clean up the mess.

But, not this time. Crispy Crunch and the Lyin’ Libs are finished. Our only hope now is the provincial Conservatives.

#148 Daisy Mae on 12.04.11 at 12:08 pm

BC Bring Cash on 12.03.11 at 11:07 pm
“No excuses says the guy on the radio commercial. No HST, no land transfer tax. Don’t have down payment. No problem. Project Build III will take care of all those inconvenient details for you deserving people out there.
Just like Cochrane Ab.


And the buildings look tacky. They will not stand the test of time.

#149 Junius on 12.04.11 at 12:16 pm

#128 Westernman,

You really don’t have much do you? You are now going to blame 20 and 30 year olds for their economic situation? How does their situation compare to what your was gifted from the generation that fought the war? Enough said.

As for me, I am doing very well thank you very much. A big part of my success is based on understanding the motivations and behaviour of yours. I will leave it at that.

#150 Junius on 12.04.11 at 12:24 pm

#142 Herb,

It may be that the millenials get their revenge upon the boomers in the end when the boomers go to sell their homes. That is when they find out what happens when a debt soaked generation is left to pay the bill.

#151 Westernman on 12.04.11 at 12:50 pm

If you are this ignorant on your major how bad must some of your electives have been – yikes!
Furthermore, I suspect the “grad work” you did in history was at the local saloon.

#152 The thing in the basement on 12.04.11 at 12:59 pm

Herb – thanks for the link. It looks like everybody else’
mileage really does vary. There is a tendency to
extrapolate one’s personal experience as the “norm” for
the group they identify with.

#153 BPOE on 12.04.11 at 1:05 pm

Still denying the facts eh Junius. Report after report comes out proving my reports and you choose your own false made reality. Anyone who listened to you the last 10 years got kicked to the sidecurb. Those listening to BPOE made out like bandits. Let’s see your spin on that one
Junius on 12.03.11 at 2:33 pm
#77 BPOE,

What happened to “Richmond is invincible and full of the best restaurants in the world?” Your message always changes to fix what you think are the facts.

Just keep pumping. It is all you know how to do.

#154 Junius on 12.04.11 at 1:14 pm

Re: Boomers,

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t have it in for all Boomers. I understand how narrow that argument is.

What does irk me is that segment of Boomers who don’t acknowledge the difference between the world they grew up in and the one we live in now. Those who carry signs around Occupy Wall Street saying “Occupy a Desk”. It is the same mentality that blames people who took Liar loans from banks instead of the banks who made the loans.

I sit right between the Boomers and the Millenials. I have worked for Boomers and manage Millenials so I see a big difference. The primary difference is debt.

I have a uncle who went to University in the early 60s. He was among the first generation who got student loans which he needed. They made a difference and he did well by them. They were paid off in only a few years after he started work. He worked hard all his life, did well and eventually got bought out from his large pension. A type of pension that no longer exists.

I did 2 university degrees and require substantial loans to do it. I paid them off after quite a long time which delayed my entry into the housing market and personal investments by about 10 years in comparison. I also saw a relative difference between what my generation was paid and the group 10-25 years ahead of us.

Fast forward to the Millenials and it is even worse. They have graduated with huge student loans, worse job prospects and an impossible housing situation. They and the Gen-Y just before them are going to face the brunt of the housing bubble crash.

They are the ones who have taken out the 5% down mortgages because they think it is the thing to do. They see Real Estate as the only way to move forward and get them out from underneath their debt and prospect problems. It is a lie and it will be tragic.

Meanwhile, according to Westernman, they will only have themselves to blame.

#155 Where's The Money Guido??? on 12.04.11 at 1:39 pm

Re: #134 crazed and a little confused on 12.04.11 at 3:27 am
“they set up a number of these red light cams to pick up red light violators . Sike areas where there are hills/ and poor visisibility i agree . but when you are turning left is kinda of ridiculus . As you move to the turning lane you comnmited yourself while you are moving…i guess once it turns ye you have slamm on the breaks once it turns b/c it less than 3 seconds and it the yellow does not blink anymore. so you do not know how much time you have.
what real confusing are some lights blink others do not. so there is inconsistency as to when the yellow will turn to red . it is a cash grab for the most part. Some areas with steep hills/ poor visibility but others ….just pathetic”
Yeah crazed, I fought one of those red light camera tickets back in the early 2000’s in BC and found out that the cities would shorten the yellow light to catch more red light runners. I found yellow light times at some red light camera intersections were lower than the minimum that the North American Motor Safety Org. had set up and they had purposely shortened them over the period of about 1 year in many areas where the cameras were (they initially had the yellow light timing on the information disclosure when you disputed the ticket, which they don’t have now!!!). I suspect they were also triggered by speed as we would get different times of yellows at close to the same time, but with tickets with shorter yellows for faster vehicles (disputed by the traffic camera technician).
When I went to court to initially fight my ticket I got at Braid and Brunette streets in New Westminster, BC, the court was overflowing with people trying to fight their tickets.
With some internet sleuthing I found that this process of shorter yellow light was common across North America and cases were being thrown out in San Diego and other cities in the US because of this.
With this evidence I went to the court and started looking at everyone’s tickets and found the evidence of shortened yellows and got people to fight their case on this info. The court was overwhelmed because everyone use to just come to plead guilty and now people were fighting.
I went to court and the judge asked if I was the guy helping everyone fight their tickets and I said yes.
I tried to include this evidence in my case and, after I told the judge this info, he dismissed my case, but wouldn’t include this information in the reason for dismissal (even though I insisted it be included).
He said instead of fighting for these people and wasting his court time, I should be trying to change the laws!!!! I told him I was— right here and now!!~!!
And after my case I went back to court a couple days later, and was overflowing with runners (because I went on the 6 o’clock news about it) and there was hardly anyone in there !!!!!
I guess they dismissed most of the tickets that had the yellow light times under 3 seconds, the ministry absolute minimum for any intersection in North America that used to be at minimum over 5 seconds at all intersections until they started giving out intersection tickets (I found some as low as 2.2 seconds that were originally 5 seconds-not enough time to even take your foot off the gas and press the brake).
Oh yeah, the company that installed the red light cameras (a German consortium) were at a conflict because they set the timing too in cahoots with the city, connected to their commission to how much they got for the city.
I found that New Westminster’s ticket revenue jumped by over 1000% from the previous year from just that one intersection alone !!!! Almost $1 million…..
Also, rear ender accidents skyrocketed. As I was doing an interview at the intersection with CTV, a rear ender happened. This initiative was also implemented thru ICBC, who rakes in huge money thru the rear enders and usually minor injuries, a nice cash cow !!!!.

And I’ve never gotten another red light camera ticket since.

#156 Tkid on 12.04.11 at 1:44 pm

I have had enough of Gen X Y or M being slammed. As part of my job duties I have trained both Boomers and kids right out of College.

Gen X Y and M listen, learn quickly, and are happy to have the work.

The Older Generation constantly interrupt, argue some irrelevant point during training, tell me to wait while they do something else, and then grouse about how much they are not being paid or how they ‘know all this stuff already.’

If I had my druthers, my employer would only hire the Gens.

#157 Tkid on 12.04.11 at 1:48 pm

P.s. These are entry level positions starting near 40 and lead to 60 to 80, but not in the first six months

#158 Form Man on 12.04.11 at 1:53 pm

#117 Snowboid

Thanks for pointing out what is obvious to pretty much everyone except westernman. The B.C. provincial Liberal party is liberal in name only. They are the former Social Credit party, which needed a new name after Bill Vanderzalm destroyed their brand. They are a right wing party that is not affiliated with the Federal Liberal party. In fact former BC Liberal premier Gordon Campbell is a close confidant of Harper, and is now enjoying his bonus prize from Harper as Canadian high commisioner in Britain. Right wing crazies like westernman have no education or understanding of anything political. They ignore facts and science, and spout nonsense. In the case of westernman, there is a notable lack of literacy. He cannot spell or retain anything he reads ( not unlike our Federal Conservatives ).
It is indeed true that the neocons have proven to be hopeless at balancing a budget. Harper is on his way to running the highest string of deficits of any Canadian prime minister ever, following on the heels of a string of federal Liberal government surpluses……..

#159 BZLDAL on 12.04.11 at 1:57 pm

I don’t know what mods you’ve done to the Hummer but 2 hours to Toronto from Windsor is insane, esp given that the 401 from Windsor to Chatham is the most heavily policed stretch of road in the country (SW idea of job creation- hire more cops)

Give yourself 4 hours at least

#160 Patz on 12.04.11 at 1:59 pm

Don’t worry, be happy it’s all turning around and coming up roses. Infestors, the MSM and virgins drooled at the vundebar Dec. 2 jobs numbers from our naybors to the sud. That would be the good ole US of A to the geographically challenged. ‘Cause as the thinkin’ goes–yes, some still do that–wither the Yanks, so goest we, or is that whee!? Unemployment dipped to 8.6%; break out the beer and nachos.

But hold on just a darn second buckaroo! Numbers don’t lie but liars number? well whatever.

Here’s Mike “Mish” Shedlock: (spoiler alert)

In Unemployment Rate Dips to 8.6% as 487,000 Drop Out of Labor Force I presented some quick facts on the drop in the unemployment rate.

In the last year, the civilian population rose by 1,726,000. Yet the labor force fell by 67,000. Those not in the labor force rose by 1,793,000.

In November, those “Not in Labor Force” rose by a whopping 487,000. If you are not in the labor force, you are not counted as unemployed.

Were it not for people dropping out of the labor force, the unemployment rate would be well over 11%.

Ah sh*t, spoiler! Well we can’t let the beer and nachos go to waste (waist?), can we?

#161 Beach Girl on 12.04.11 at 2:22 pm

#15 TurnerNation on 12.02.11 at 11:22 pm

What 2.2 mill buys in Toronto. A freakin big, old rooming house. I did not check if it’s cash flow positive.

I owned one of these houses in 1982. What a nightmare, profitable. On the next street over, on Cowan Avenue. No one in their right mind would want to live there. Sold for 139,000 in 1984. Same house is worth nearly 800,000. Shitsville.

#143 Herb
Since the generation conflict has cropped up again, here is an article that blows away a bit of smoke on the issue:


Excellent article.


Westerman, you need to get a date. I am not being mean, but get out there and socialize, volunteer, do something. Your anger will eat you up. But we are all entertained by your angst.

#162 Patz on 12.04.11 at 2:25 pm

#19 Need Advice — if you’re still reading.

As another poster said: choice of lawyer depends on where you are. Google employment law in your city and you’ll find several. Some of them give examples of cases they’ve handled. You can get an initial consultation with most lawyers for a couple hundred–he/she’ll tell you if you have a case.

Here are the key factors: your job level, junior to senior, responsibility; length of employment; time in the job; performance reviews in past; your age. There are others but that’s a start.

Learn about “constructive dismissal.” The courts take a very dim view of what your employer seems to be doing; if you’re right it constitutes constructive dismissal and could result in a large award.

Don’t just find “another job” if you have a good case–you’ll regret it.

You can find hundreds of cases on the internet of suits against employers and how they were adjudicated–educate yourself.

Good luck!

#163 Form Man on 12.04.11 at 2:54 pm

#139 Herb

you made my morning with that comment !

#164 westcoast on 12.04.11 at 5:56 pm

Thanks Cash is King! This is good to know. Residence fees at U of Windsor are pretty hefty. $6446 per 8 month year ($805 per month) for a single. Approx $5450 for a shared double. If I bought a 3-4 bedroom house there within walking distance of the university for under $100K, I would be comfortable renting it out for $800 for the whole house. A few students could get together and lease, and their rental costs would be obliterated… One question, those is it better to look on the university side of Ambassador Bridge or is the other side of Ambassador near the Sandwich district ok too? Any other areas you would recommend looking into? I’m looking for something under $100K. Thanks in advance.

#165 Harlee on 12.04.11 at 6:19 pm

I know very well what is bugging “W”. Not liberalism,or generation gap.None of that….
It’s Male Menopause, pure and simple. It’s so obvious….

#166 Smoking Man on 12.04.11 at 6:37 pm

#107 TurnerNation on 12.03.11 at 6:39 pm

Thats why I developed
Problem is when the spy services come calling looking for the decription keys…

Im going to sell it to them, then unleash version 2 lol

#167 Smoking Man on 12.04.11 at 6:39 pm

#19 Need advice – thanks in advance for all that respond

You’re a slave to someone else, my suggestion, steel the customer list then become a salve to yourself…..

#168 Mr. Lahey on 12.04.11 at 6:46 pm

#45 Habbit

“Mr. Lahey. Thanks for the invite. Sorry to say I will not be able to make it. Will the CBC be there? If not, would it be possible to tape the festivities? Thanks.”

Sorry for the delayed response Habbit but as you can imagine I have been busy all weekend getting the Trailer Park ready for the big Xmas bash. The CBC has been informed of the party but whether they will appear is another matter. Don’t worry though, Ricky has graciously offered to video tape the memorable even, especially the beared one (not Santa the sagacious host of this blog) squaring off against Flaherty. If Westernman is a no show, we may give the wrestling trunks to Garth and he will have to perform a double duty and also wrestle Flaherty (all captured on video I can assure you). “Barb, turn on all the Christmas lights”.

#169 Nonna Nicola on 12.04.11 at 6:49 pm

#51 Turner Nation

“It’s funny how bigarider and nonna nicola both disappear at the same time.”

I no disappeara but Bigga Rider he has a disappeareda. Nonna Nicola hasa beena too a busy selling his propertias to da greater foolsa and when the marcato di real estata go downa, Nonna Nicola gonna buya againa from the stupdios who buya the housa from Nonna Nicola at da toppa of da marcato.

#170 Mr. Lahey on 12.04.11 at 6:58 pm

First off, I have personally ridden with Garth on his Harley to Windsor in under two hours. Randy and I were at his digs when the topic of how fast one can get to Windsor came up. The bearded one boasted he could do it in under two hours and Randy and I were naturally skeptical. So Garth strapped a side car to his Harley and I jumped in the side car while Randy sat behind Garth. One hour and 45 minutes flat folks and we even stopped for a coffee at Timmies.

#171 Hey Westernman on 12.04.11 at 7:01 pm

i’m a boomer and you’re creeping me out.

Junius sounds like a much more together dude than you….and Form Man too of course.

you need to get a grip dude.

#172 Mr. Lahey on 12.04.11 at 7:03 pm

This just in from Westernman. In the spirit of the yuletide season, he has informed me that a wrestling match does not bode well with him and the spirit of Christmas. So in the biblical adage of turning your swords into plowshares, and also due to his agricultural background, he has challenged Form Man to a ploughing contest provided the ground is not frozen solid. The above average weather this fall may keep the ground from freezing by Christmas. Ricky has graciously offered to give up his weed field for this contest after he and the boys harvest it. So Form Man this is now the new challenge that awaits you.

#173 Abitibi Doug on 12.04.11 at 7:10 pm

Garth said:
Being an occasional compilation of stuff for people who read this pathetic blog on Saturdays because they have no life.
Wow, there must be a lot of people here who have no life.

#174 The thing in the basement on 12.04.11 at 7:18 pm

153 Junius – 2 degrees? Why? I got a tech diploma first.
Landed me a decent job, but still fell victim to 80s
recession. Returned to school at age 26, married, with a
strong sense of purpose. I saw it as my last chance –
would not have returned any later. Graduated a new
father. Sorted out the few debts first and in just over two
years became a homeower (not a typo) at age 32. That was just over 20 years ago. What’s different about
your experience?

#175 Greg on 12.04.11 at 8:00 pm

While Windsor is a nice place … a couple of options in smaller towns on the shores of Lake Erie ( 30 minutes away ) … like Leamington …who won the 2006 Money Magazine ‘best place to live’ award …

But then I am biased … :-)

#176 Onemorething on 12.04.11 at 8:16 pm

Sydney OR Vancouver

Same Sh&t Difference Pile!

#177 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 12.04.11 at 8:19 pm

A gorgeous night here — minus 92 in the shade, sunny with cloudy periods and non snow to shovel!
US Fed Crimes to big to comprehend? Occupy Free people and free markets cannot be occupied; Bondage It’s the ‘conomy! and Full-blown tyranny; Doomsday Mechanisms “The biggest doomsday mechanism of all is the Federal Reserve System.”; Scroll down to see the 1934 cartoon, plus following text. This is what is happening now.
Iran Oil prices to double if exports are blocked; 7:35 clip Iran has apparently shot down a US drone; 7:14 clip War with Iran, by George Galloway; Kosovo “Russia draws a line in the sand”. Just as they’re doing with Syria; Apple “Apple didn’t fix it, It’s three years later and I just hit this problem as well. Don’t be fooled by those pretty white stores; Apple has gone over to the dark side of selling crap that does not work, then offering to fix it for a fee.”; Gingrich’s Illusion TPTB still want Romney in, and are using Gingrich as a front; Oblunder “In other words, this was all a staged public relations stunt to make Obama look good as we head into the 2012 election season.”; Casualty Figures Af’stan and Iraq toll will surpass that of ‘Nam; Libya Another magnificent job completed by NATO – US – UN.

Border Deal to streamline GMO foods; Af’stan lawyers ask Russia for help; 1:24 clip “This “Yars” deployment is a deterrent move. But the RS-24 is an offensive missile with a tested accurate range of 3600 miles, and deploys the Russian maneuverable MIRV which renders the US ballistic missile defense system obsolete before it even finishes development.”; Least and Most corrupt places; The US stands alone as a killing machine; Grounded! “The American F-15s are grounded half the time, for the same reason. The F-22s are currently all grounded because they asphyxiate their own pilots, the F-35 cannot fly in the rain because the electronics start to malfunction when wet, and the B-2 cannot fly in the rain because it loses its radar stealth when wet.”

#178 Junius on 12.04.11 at 8:20 pm

#173 The Thing,

My point was that my Boomer uncle had it easier than I did but I had it easier than the generations that followed. Which is why I emphathize with them and why I get ticked off by Boomers who don’t.

#179 jess on 12.04.11 at 8:51 pm

Iceland’s special prosecutor arrests former Glitnir CEO

#180 The thing in the basement on 12.04.11 at 9:42 pm

177 J – thanks for the reply, but I’m still stuck on why 2
degrees? Did your uncle get 2 degrees?

The nearest experience I have is with my neph – started eng’g but switched after a year and got a quite
useless BA. Then went to tech school for two years.
Worked in big city but quit after a couple as he didnt like
big city or corp life. Got a new job in small town in resource industry. His tech diploma helps him, but he
would have been better off getting a more applicable
tech dip, and he could have done that right from the start
and been years and $10ks ahead. Correct that – his
boomer parents would have been $10Ks ahead.

I know lots of successful people who did tech school
out of highschool (or soon thereafter). I think the post
sec ed “industry” is just as bad as the RE industry. The
myth you “have to have it” is just to support the industry.

#181 Don't Prop Up the Ponzi on 12.04.11 at 10:08 pm

A little more insight into the Australian real estate market. In 2007 we were in a housing bubble. Prices were going up higher each week and buyers were rushing in for fear of missing out. Then, in 2008 during the GFC prices started to drop, so our government stepped in to prop up and reinflate the housing bubble, ensuring prices would rise higher than ever before. They slashed interest rates, tripled the First Home Owners Grant, opened the floodgates to hordes of immigrants and relaxed the laws of foreign investment, encouraging wealthy Asians to outbid Australians for properties in the more expensive areas. In addition, we have negative gearing, in which (as has been pointed out) investors make a loss on rent for the capital gain they make later on. What this does is pit investors against homebuyers, with investors heavily subsidised. The worst part of it is that this bubble has been going for so long that most Australians think outrageous property prices are normal. Now that we have had small price drops, real estate would still be classified as unaffordable compared to wages, but we hear everywhere that it is now a buyers market. We hear about mortgage stress in the news, but I don’t think the full extent of this is actually reported. However, I cannot understand how people manage. We have a high cost of living here, retail is now suffering with online spending, gas and electricity bills have skyrocketed, and now that the government in their infinite stupidity has introduced a carbon tax which will take effect next year, prices on everything will go up even more. And yet, the real estate lobby is now saying that we have reached the bottom, and next year prices are bound to go back up. I would say that most Australians would tend to agree with them. They haven’t seen a real recession since the early 1990s.

#182 Snowboid on 12.04.11 at 10:37 pm

#146 Daisy Mae on 12.04.11 at 11:17 am…

“NDP in 2013? Bite your tongue. Up until now, whenever the NDP has been in power they’ve managed to almost destroy the province…and the Liberals have always had to clean up the mess”

Huh? The only ‘cleaning’ the Liberals have done started in 2001, and involved the wholesale sell-off of provincial assets.

I worked under two Socred and three NDP regimes (not counting the short-term leaders), and a Campbell one (can’t call them Liberals, as they weren’t).

I was pretty close to the action, and despite what you may believe, the only prosperous and progressive times were under the NDP (and of course the pre-1972 Socreds).

I’m not a socialist, but when a province is turned into a ‘ghetto’ in comparison to other provinces, all in a few years of Campbell and now Clarke – I can’t fathom why anyone would still be trying to blame the NDP.

BTW, the provincial Cons will be lucky to pick up one or two seats, they have nothing to offer the province.