No risk

As you can see below, there was a healthy lineup in Toronto as people queued to snap up the latest condo offering. Of course, these were not anxious, homeless couples hoping for a toehold in the escalating market. Nah. Total investors, speckers and flippers. Typical of eight in ten buyers in the godless GTA these days.

After all, who in their right mind would acquire one of these units to live in?

Prices start at $190,000 for 227 square feet, which is a numbing $836 per foot. For something actually livable (a 700-foot, two-bedroom unit), the starting price is $451,000 (that’s a bargain $620 per pied).

Of course, add on to that an extra $45,000 for a parking space, and $5,000 for more bicycle storage. Now it’s half a million. Oh, and I forgot the education levy of $6,500, which is in addition to closing costs of $10,000. Now it’s $710 a foot. Hmm, wait. Maintenance fees.  They’re fifty-three cents a foot a month, plus another hundred bucks for ‘parking and locker maintenance’, which comes to about $500. Property taxes will be an additional $400 a month.

So, spend $517,600 and get a 700-foot concrete box, which costs a grand a month to own, without a mortgage. If you bought with 20% down ($103,000) and a cheapo 3% mortgage, the payments would be $1,750 a month, bringing the carrying costs to $2,850. Oops. That’s $1,100 a month more than market rent – which means an ‘investor’ would spend $103,000 in order to buy something generating an annual loss of  $13,200, or a negative return of 12.8%.

Welcome to the end times of the real estate orgy. The masses have flipped.

Why would anyone buy a ‘Karma Condo’ that looks like this?:

Two reasons. You can lock in a deal for only $5,000. Major credit cards accepted. Plus, for an extra $2,500 you can secure an ‘option to assign’. This allows an investor-specker-flipper to resell the unit months or years before it actually exists (this building will not be habitable until 2015). So, naturally, if you sell a $500,000 unit a year from now for $600,000, after having only coughed up a fraction of the purchase price, you leverage your down payment into a handsome profit. You have not sold real estate, but rather a purchase agreement – a futures contract.

This is legal, of course, but also every bit as risky as an option on three tons of copper for delivery next May. If the market tanks and you can’t assign the paper, you’ll have to close. Walking away from the deal is no option, since that invites a lawsuit you will lose. And if you assign the deal, but your own purchaser reneges on closing, too bad.

All the while, the end product – a two-bedroom condo – has a zero chance of carrying itself as a rental unit, unless you upfront at least $400,000 in cash. And why would you do that to earn a few hundred dollars a month in positive cash flow (fully taxable as income), and forgo $20,000 a year in dividend income if you stuck it in the safety of preferred bank shares?

So why are these people lined up?

Because they believe the myth – there is no risk. Real estate prices only rise. Even when 21,000 new condo units come to market in a single year in a single city. Even when market rents are falling. Even when interest rates will unquestionably rise in the years ahead. Even as the economy slows, unemployment rises, Europe and America slumber and shudder. Even as residential real estate faces the inevitability of a correction which could make Karma Condos a distant memory on closing day.

Like I said, the masses have flipped. Manipulated by marketing, aroused by cheap money, infatuated by easy profits and seduced by peer pressure, with every deal they elevate the risk for all homeowners. But who cares (other than us)?

Apparently not Andrew Saxton, Andrew’s MP in North Vancouver. “I am including a letter that I sent to Saxton six months ago and never even heard a response,” he writes me. “What do you expect when you convince 5 of your family members to vote for him. Thanks for your informative information. I listened to two of my friends argue the other day about who had more stainless steel appliances in their homes (all bought on credit) to go with their $500,000 mortgages  and  for sure this is not going to end well.”

Here’s Andrew’s letter:

Dear Sir: Over the past number of years, I have watched the housing market in Vancouver rise to such dizzying heights. In doing so the engine of economy, the middle class, people like myself, teachers, firefighters, police officers, have been priced right out of the market.  The Conservative party of Canada is responsible for a lot of the over inflated over hyped real estate hysteria with their policies.  The forty year mortgage, emergency interest rates (that go on forever), no money down mortgages as well as immigration rules and foreign ownership to name a few of their not well thought out ideas.

So what have you done?  You have encouraged foreign owners to buy and hold property easily and without penalty, introduced a 40 year mortgage only to wise up and change it to a maximum of 30 years.  Then there is the no money down mortgages and of course the emergency interest rates.  And there are others.

In doing so you have frenzied and confused the public by encouraging them to take on massive debt with enticing rates and amortizations that will last half their lives.  This market is eventually going to correct but every time you delay it with policy tweaks you only add another breath to an already over inflated balloon.

So my question for you is this.   What are you going to do now?  You have encouraged Canadians to carry more debt that they have in history all the while a government agency the CMHC who have lost their direction years ago cheer the public on to drink the kool-aid.  So as my MP, I would like to know your thoughts on the subject?

By the way, below is the photograph Mr. Saxton chose for his Parliamentary, publicly-funded web site. Olympics rock. Policy sucks.

Yes, Andrew, this will not end well.

205 comments ↓

#1 MarcFromOttawa on 11.06.11 at 6:04 pm

1st.

#2 Montrealer on 11.06.11 at 6:06 pm

Very good post today. I love when you put all the number/calculations. It shows how people are blinded by possible (and sometimes previous) capital gains.
It’s impossible to buy after seeing these numbers…

#3 City Slicker on 11.06.11 at 6:16 pm

Am I first?!?!?
Good write up Garth! People really are now beyond ludicrous and insane. I think the only thing they think about are low interest rates, and don’t see the rest of the equation.
As long as interest rates stay low this drunken orgy ain’t ending.

#4 jess on 11.06.11 at 6:26 pm

and this CEO cost the gov. in the usa 1billion !And how about employees who don’t even know what a mortgage is!

“ALLIED’s quality control program was either dysfunctional or entirely nonexistent. The corporation maintained only a handful of quality control employees to review its thousands of mortgages, most of whom were located in St. Croix, in the U.S. Virgin Islands, and employed by a company that HODGE set up to obtain tax benefits. According to the Complaint, when the quality control manager visited her staff in St. Croix, she discovered that they did not know what HUD was or even what a mortgage was.” read more

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/November11/alliedhomemortgagepr.pdf

#5 sam.i.am on 11.06.11 at 6:31 pm

I’d say the Canadian RE investor psychology cycle is somewhere between greed & conviction, and indifference. Interesting since the US cycle (caution?) is so out of sync with Canada. Therein lies the key driver…Canada’s largest trading partner and neighbor is on the ropes while Canada rides the commodity boom. Canada can’t raise interest rates without hurting exports. Cue newpage and mersey in NS. There’s only one way for this to end, and interest rates must rise to combat inflation.

My question is…how to profit?

#6 Benjamin on 11.06.11 at 6:35 pm

I want this delusional illusion to vanish soon. It’s going to get worse for a lot of people, but in the meantime I’m still dealing with inflated rent. This boom hurts the economy, because people have to spend a lot on high rental costs. This is money that is not being spent on other services and products.

Very prudent… Mr. Prime Minister.

#7 OttawaMike on 11.06.11 at 6:46 pm

Or how about Brad Lamb’s adventure into the Ottawa condo market?
http://www.condoforsaletoronto.ca/Gotham-Ottawa-Gloucester-Street-Lyon-Street-North-brad-lamb-real-estate-condominiums-pre-construction.html

He comes up with an interesting design(compared to the usual Stalinist pap architecture we have rammed down our throats here in O-town) The two nearby condo projects being promoted by our old hometown Claridge and Richcraft boys go back to the drawing board to spruce up their architecture.

I guess Mr. Lamb is useful for something after all.

All this after repeating the mantra for years that the Ottawa condo market cannot support anything fancier than a plain box-like structure.

The Lebreton Flats project is the ultimate travesty. The fed’s NCC expropriated prime downtown land 60 years ago and left it empty as they developed a “vision”. Only one developer entered an agreement with them to build condos near the grand/bold war museum.

The final product must have taken some extraordinary skills to get that ugly. The units even have support columns running through the centre of the dining rooms.

#8 OttawaMike on 11.06.11 at 6:47 pm

They say a capital’s appearance speaks for its nation.

Our architecture screams third world and not representative of one of the world’s richest nations

#9 Benjamin on 11.06.11 at 7:02 pm

Here’s a condo unit just across the river from downtown Calgary:

http://www.nextliving.ca/buy-next/pricing/

#10 Michelle on 11.06.11 at 7:10 pm

$100 a month for “parking and locker maintenance”?!!
What are they doing? Going in and polishing the floor of your locker every month?
That’s just crazy!

#11 Victoria on 11.06.11 at 7:19 pm

I am realising now (well I actually already realised it) that many many people think the government controls interest rates.

I am starting to talk to people and what I am getting is – the government would NEVER EVER let interest rates rise. These are people in their 50s talking. Probably not the most educated but certainly not the least.

#12 john m on 11.06.11 at 7:25 pm

Thanks to H.F.C. and company the largest destruction of personal wealth in Canada’s history is not longer a possibility but a certainty. May God help the generations it takes to weather this mess.

#13 Mark on 11.06.11 at 7:26 pm

When is this going to pop? You’ve been talking about the pop for 3 years … is it ever going to happen? Or is there a possibility you are wrong?

#14 Otto Doppelganger on 11.06.11 at 7:33 pm

http://www.househunting.ca/vancouversun/Video+Westcoast+Homes+with+Arran+Henn/5653881/story.html

I wonder if Global BC got a stern talking-to for their apparent newscast stories, er, promotions of Lower Mainland developments.

How much of a coincidence is it that one of Global BC’s weathercasters can now be seen promoting ‘standout’ developments like Bosa’s Affinity?

#15 Marc L on 11.06.11 at 7:33 pm

Gez, I could never buy a property with a Condo Corp name like ‘Gotham’. We have a development in Ottawa called ‘Central Park’. There are other developments called SoHo, Tribeca…
No vision or creativity, very embarrassing.

#16 Unistar38 on 11.06.11 at 7:35 pm

Garth,

I have been pondering. There must be positive sides from these “forest of condos” being built in GTA.

Suddenly I got one: What about people willingly subsidize the building of affordable rental houses? Yes, there you are!

In another five years, all GTA renters will be able to live in these spiffy condos at a bargain price! The issue of shortage of rental buildings in GTA has been solved! I sincerely cannot think of another thing which is more societal positive…

Let’s welcome more condos to GTA.

Cheer on, Garth.

#17 TurnerNation on 11.06.11 at 7:51 pm

As even this popular Toronto condo realtor admits, flipping is just about finished:

http://www.torontorealtyblog.com/archives/is-flipping-dead/5878

(For our Downinder friends: flipper = spruiker.
Rooting = err nevermind) :-)

#18 WI BOOMER on 11.06.11 at 7:58 pm

Those numbers tell me anyone who buys one of these jems is totally nuts.
Where is the FRUGAL Canadian property buyer? Certainly not in ths line up for “Karma Krackers.” Garth, this will NOT end well. Looking more forward, what will be the impact on Canadian Bank preferreds? Do I smell BofA or Citi type losses in their futures?

#19 45north on 11.06.11 at 8:02 pm

penpal: commenting on another post: Garth can you post the email address for CHMC where Canadians can send complaints?

to which penpal replied: Do you not think that the people at CMHC management are aware of this?

They are unable to stop it, and if they try to they will lose their jobs

good post penpal, there’s no reason to give up

#20 Debt's Dark Embrace on 11.06.11 at 8:03 pm

What do you expect ? Borrowing money is free and there is no capital gains tax. And why would the government change anything? New debt is what keeps our economy out of recession.

#21 been there done that on 11.06.11 at 8:03 pm

“Karma”. Ha ha ha ha ha! What an unintentionally funny name. We’ve got a pretentious little wood frame condo project here in Victoria along the same lines called “Zen”.

For $183k you get 311 square feet with a toilet in the corner. No bedroom. (The realtor claims it is a one bedroom, but the “bedroom” has no walls or doors and your bed is in the same room as your kitchen and living room. LOL) And it’s on a busy street downtown. You can practice your meditation to block out the street noise and drunks walking home from the bar.

Zen, baby!

#22 Smoking Man on 11.06.11 at 8:07 pm

How can any sane person disagree to Garth’s post…

Well I can,

Are the fundamentals set for a major Kaboom in Real Estate? Yes
Are Canadian’s in way over their heads when it comes to personal Debt? Yes
Are Wages gains coming to support the current prices? Nope.

So Smokey why then do you not agree with Garth?

Well voice it’s like this. We have an extremely stupid population…..Who derive there feeling of success by what cars they drive, and the type of Garnet in the kitchen. They are taught since Grade 1 Memorize, Regurgitate, Obey, do it well and you get a pass past go, collect the 200 and get a degree.

The come out with good grammar, not much brains, can’t solve problems or have the ability to think critically. They do know the consequences of what happens to those that think out of the box, have there own mind and speak it openly……….

The only token gained by 50k to 100k of Student debt is a self-righteous arrogance and feeling of entitlement. That will get them into big trouble down the road….. But for know they will put up a good fight, for renting is a losers game…Low life’s do that, not special people like us. (when the ladies get together, nice shoes, where did you get that hand bag it’s so nice. The men they will do anything to keep her happy as his only interest is hide the sausage. So buy the house dog or else.

Hence my hypostasis Canadian’s are too stupid to invoke a real estate crash.

#23 Tim on 11.06.11 at 8:08 pm

Many Canadians were stupid enough to vote for Harper, these same people are probably the bulk of the people stupid enough to buy condos at these prices

#24 How can I buy? on 11.06.11 at 8:10 pm

Sure i can jump into this market with little or nothing down and sure i can afford the payments at 2.5% . The only problem is if rates go up to 4.5 or 5% i would be in big trouble . Many friends i know who bought are just getting by at 2.5% and in fact maxed out their credit cards. None of them seem to care or worry since they believe they can just sell if they get in trouble. Garth can you post how difficult or the steps of going bankrupt . Starting to hate saving and working hard and being smart with my money when the dumb and ignorant without a care or understanding of money buy RE they can not afford with the plans to sell for a profit or just go bankrupt. I dont care about going bankrupt. If i would go bankrupt i would do it with a bang.Those who work and save are stupid as the reckless and broke continue to win. Please garth point out the pros and cons of filing for bankruptcy.

#25 NFN_NLN on 11.06.11 at 8:11 pm

When I travel I usually get a better room than the one pictured in this article.

#26 Observer on 11.06.11 at 8:11 pm

In doing so you have frenzied and confused the public by encouraging them to take on massive debt with enticing rates and amortizations that will last half their lives.  This market is eventually going to correct but every time you delay it with policy tweaks you only add another breath to an already over inflated balloon.

Exercise patience, invest wisely, and keep reading Garth’s blog for encouragement until this storm of madness has blown over. (and/or policy makers come to their senses) Easier said than done though.
———————
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
John Maynard Keynes

#27 I'm stupid on 11.06.11 at 8:11 pm

I can buy a concrete box for 30k or less at any reputable cemetery. It’s about the same size but there are no maintenance fees or property tax. Landscaping is included but I must warn you the neighbors are deadbeats. Lol

#28 Mister Sanity on 11.06.11 at 8:13 pm

Interesting post Garth – I enjoy seeing the numbers. Just ridiculous what’s being sold downtown Toronto – time to invoke Buffett and ‘be fearful when others are greedy’. I for one am waiting until the masses flee, the market corrects, and market rents finally rise higher than carrying costs – at which point all the speckers will have crawled back into their debt-ridden holes, and we’ll be actually able to invest locally rather than looking abroad for these opportunities.

#29 nmh on 11.06.11 at 8:13 pm

10TH!!!!! or maybe 11th by the time I finish writing this post.
Anyways, I too was one of the horny house virgins looking into the condo market in Toronto, until I took a step back and analyze all the market fundamentals.

It’s too expensive to “own” a newer condo in the GTA. When I was doing the research, I notice that a lot of pre construction condos are beginning to offer 1 free year of maintenance fees waived, and TONNNNNSS of “vip” price reductions for the units. Could it be that finally it’s getting saturated with too many builders and not enough demand out there? Are we really “vips” or just a bunch of duped consumers thinking we are so we buy into their marketing strategy.

too funny.

BTW great blog Garth,

#30 Screwed in BC on 11.06.11 at 8:34 pm

The bottom photo is very telling. A bunch of parasites cheering while the Titanic sinks.
For what do we need these guys anyway? Represent the people? What a joke…

#31 Vik on 11.06.11 at 9:03 pm

“Maintenance fees. They’re fifty-three cents a foot a month, plus another hundred bucks for ‘parking and locker maintenance’, which comes to about $500.”
– Oh! and this btw excludes hydro . Look at the positives- you get your very own shiny smart meter.

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-real-estate-condos-for-sale-KARMA-CONDO-3000-CASH-BACK-W0QQAdIdZ324430111

#32 Devil's Advocate on 11.06.11 at 9:15 pm

Well hell no wonder you believe the market still has a lot of correction left in it. You Easterners really are still in a bubble aren’t you.

That “Karma Condo” is absurd. I can not help but ponder the fortuitous foreshadowing of it’s namesake “Karma” really is a bitch as these people will learn.

I gotta go with the Dawgs on this one… simply absurd. THAT one will not end well.

#33 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.06.11 at 9:16 pm


The pic somehow suits godless Toronto (Bum — OWotAGiveAway!) ‘tho I remember Cabbagetown quite well (used to rent a large basement apartment in Rosedale). Nice place to visit, wouldn’t want to live there now.

“Welcome to the end times of the real estate orgy. The masses have flipped. Why would anyone buy a ‘Karma Condo’ “? — Doncha mean Karmacoma?

“Even as the economy slows, unemployment rises, Europe and America slumber and shudder.” — Unemployment is the main one (unless military ranks swell greatly). If people remain jobless, without benefits, no income of any kind coming in, what else is there for them to do?

Riot? Yes indeed. They are going to vent their frustrations on something or someone, and letting one’s built-up rage and take it out on inanimate objects is one way of doing it (people will also take their lumps).

“Olympics rock. Policy sucks.” — The only policies H – F have produced have been clearly designed to hinder the Cdn. public from saving for an adequate retirement, by sucking more money from them (HST, illegal wars etc.), and lousy, obnoxious MPs. And now they have a majority, we can pretty much kiss Canada goodby.

At least Andrew had the guts to tell it like it is.
*
#173 Onemorething on 11.06.11 at 12:29 am — “China, AUS and CAN RE last to correct FINALLY!”

At last! Get this long, drawn-out and over-indulgent balloon fart out of the way, so the next cycle begins.

#186 Timing is Everything on 11.06.11 at 10:40 am — Nice links, nice tune and nice cartoon! Cheers!

#189 jess on 11.06.11 at 11:10 am and #207 Van guy waiting on 11.06.11 at 3:42 pm — Agree somewhat with Van guy.

In wars, combat pilots (as long as the glass eye-shield on their helmets is dark enough), fly directly toward the sun so they cannot be seen, then double-back toward their enemy again. This gives the advantage of appearing out of nowhere, then finishing them off.

Don’t forget the Chinese also have their own HAARP, so it may also be that. Lotsa different things to consider. Aliens? We’re all aliens, slimy slugs on the face of earth!
*
Bank Transfer Day Chances are no one realizes how angry people are; Wells Fargo “You heard them, Wells Fargo Customers. They don’t want you. Close your accounts Monday!” wrh.com; The American Dream (and us) “. . . American corporations orchestrated the dismantling of middle-class prosperity through rampant deregulation, the outsourcing of jobs, and tax policies favoring businesses and the wealthy.”; 4:54 clip Western govts. are endangering their economies thru wars, etc. which will continue; Band Backlash Go Credit Unions! Plus Same in Texas.
*
Iran The rhetoric will be flying momentarily, and the Bovine Excrometer is on overload; All Along The Watchtower “What you are looking at is the PX at Pearl Harbor! That’s right, this US Government watchtower is keeping an eye on US MILITARY SERVICE PEOPLE AND THEIR FAMILIES!” wrh.com; Drugs They are all chemical, no matter what one puts in their bodies.

Syria This what the CIA and Mossad do so well — create diversionary tactics, then the US yells Regime change, in go NATO and bob’s yer uncle. Another country is raped and looted of its resources; Obomba Israel has never signed the NNPT, so the US is complicit in supporting a rogue state; Elite On The Run? Good question; Criminal Enterprise That is the US.

#34 mac on 11.06.11 at 9:17 pm

Looks like an all-Asian line up, just like here in Vancouver. They are buying “cheap” property. Price per/sq. ft is still cheap relative to Shanghai, etc. No other way to make money in China other than to speculate on real estate. They’re being curbed at home and in Oz so that leaves Canada. Let’s hope our government knows what they are doing. Mmmmoooaaahahahahaha, not likely.

Maybe you hadn’t noticed, but there are people of Asian heritage living in Canada who didn’t just get off the plane from Shanghai. I hear some were actually born here. — Garth

#35 Adviser on 11.06.11 at 9:27 pm

This Karma stuff is equivalent of insanity at it’s peak… Most hotel rooms/suites are far larger than the smallest units. Financially it makes absolutely no sense to purchase, unless you’re anticipating a double digit annual price increases.

#36 NYCer on 11.06.11 at 9:29 pm

I saw the Karma floor plans, damn that building is meant for renting out. I mean there was a 3 bedroom layout, all bedrooms similar in size with ONE bathroom! Sounds like college/university student rentals to me.

#37 T.O. Bubble Boy on 11.06.11 at 9:30 pm

@ #28Mister Sanity
I for one am waiting until the masses flee, the market corrects, and market rents finally rise higher than carrying costs…

For some of the buildings out there, that is almost impossible (because property tax + condo fees + other fees are almost the same as rents, even before mortgage costs are factored in).

These condos could almost be free, and you’d still lose money renting them out.

Some of these pre-builds will either never get built, or will have so many owners walk away that they’ll never be able to incorporate the building.

#38 jess on 11.06.11 at 9:32 pm

population numbers must include the reborn

Sunday, November 06, 2011
Created to thwart such crimes, a Social Security Administration database is being used by criminals to file fraudulent income tax returns involving the names of deceased children.

The government established the Death Master File in 1980 to help businesses ferret out identity thieves. The File contains the names, birthdates and Social Security numbers of more than 90 million deceased Americans, and it is updated every week.

But the database’s availability on the Internet has allowed it to become a tool for those filing phony tax returns that claim other people’s dead children as dependents.

The Internal Revenue Service says 350,000 fraudulent returns using dead Americans were filed this tax season with the intention of stealing $1.25 billion in refunds.

In 2008, Social Security’s Inspector General’s Office issued a report urging the agency to wait at least a year before posting private information about Americans who have died.
-Noel Brinkerhoff, David Wallechinsky

Social Security Death List Enables Dead Children’s ID Theft (by Thomas Hargrove and Isaac Wolf, Scripps Howard News Service

#39 Sasquatch on 11.06.11 at 9:32 pm

Wow, …just wow. Don’ know about TO, but i get 900-1000 sq ft for $900.00 a month with heat, water, and a parking space thrown in (rented of course). I just can’t believe any one could pay that much for a bachelor cuby hole.

#40 Unistar38 on 11.06.11 at 9:35 pm

#34 Mac,

Yes. They are from China. But don’t be negative on them. Look from the positive side. They are making great economic contribution to Canada, i.e., eventual affordable housing for Canadians, when all dust settles.

#41 Smoking Man on 11.06.11 at 9:41 pm

#33 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.06.11 at 9:16 pm

My pick date for world war 3 Nov 11 2011 or 11/11/11

Those wild men like dates 911 ring a bell

#42 Smoking Man on 11.06.11 at 9:46 pm

#33 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.06.11 at 9:16 pm

what I have been trying to preach :)

thanks for the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcLNoxiPBk&feature=player_embedded#!

#43 RyYYZ on 11.06.11 at 9:48 pm

My girlfriend has just started the process of selling her condo in Toronto/Etobicoke, which she got to move into last fall, 3 years after originally signing a contract for it. Seems like the hoped-for gains in value have not entirely materialized, but she will gain some (maybe 30k-40+k, excluding costs). Problem is we want to get a house/townhouse together in Oakville. My feeling is that the pricing is insane and there must be a correction at some point, and that renting for now might be a better bet. OTOH, I have also been expecting a correction for several years now, and it hasn’t happened, yet. What to do? Who knows?

I do know that condos, at the current pricing (including all the fees and such) and given the realities of actually living in them (not great, IMO), seem like a bad deal.

#44 JohnnyBravo on 11.06.11 at 9:50 pm

For the costs these condo cuckoos are incurring, they could acquire a decent sized detached SFH in the same city, and which actually comes attached to that which ultimately gives a property its value: land. A condominium does not even really qualify as ‘real estate’. Maybe that’s why we increasingly use the term ‘property’ instead. On the other hand, maybe we don’t need land as much as we used to. Time was you needed a tree if you wanted to harvest nuts. Trees need land to grow on. Today you can harvest nuts from all around with concrete boxes in the sky.

#45 NoName on 11.06.11 at 9:58 pm

Japanese are laughing there a$$es off, every time they read about CANADIAN RED HOT HOUSING MARKET.

#46 Smoking Man on 11.06.11 at 10:09 pm

Grass Hoppers

Certificates on the wall… I say tear down the wall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Learn, Research, The Hegelian Dialectic

Sober lost 600k in two weeks……………..The Real smoking man is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#47 JohnnyBravo on 11.06.11 at 10:09 pm

These so-called ‘investors’ who want Good Karma may be forgetting that sound investing is about cash flow.

Debt investments (e.g bonds) provide cash flow in the form of interest payments. Equity investments (e.g business ownership/stocks) basically give you a claim on a share of future profits.

Without a positive cash flow, it’s just speculation. Oh, silly me, I forgot: property prices always go up.

#48 Subversive on 11.06.11 at 10:30 pm

227 square feet? Hilarious. My travel trailer is bigger than that.

#49 Snowboid on 11.06.11 at 10:36 pm

Those prices are absolute insanity, the starter unit at $ 190K is less than one-half the size of our garage (546 sq ft) in the Valley of the Sun. Although not calculated in the home square footage, if it was its’ equivalent value would be $ 36K US.

When you take the garage out of the equation we paid about $90 US per square foot ($91 if you include our purchase costs) – even that was high at the time we bought, but we opted to pay a premium for a stable area and a conventional sale. Oh yes, and a .25 acre lot!

While back in the Okanagan, despite the bleating of Lucifers’ Apostle, we will continue to rent as long as the cost of purchasing real estate is so inflated.

Those people lining up in Toronto must surely have been ‘paid’ – or maybe mathematically challenged – $ 836 a sq ft for a closet?

#50 Victor on 11.06.11 at 10:37 pm

This is legal, of course, but also every bit as risky as an option on three tons of copper for delivery next May. If the market tanks and you can’t assign the paper, you’ll have to close. Walking away from the deal is no option, since that invites a lawsuit you will lose. And if you assign the deal, but your own purchaser reneges on closing, too bad.

Thanks for this insight Garth. Can you elaborate on that last sentence? Are you saying that the assignment is not legally binding in this scenario?

#51 Steven Rowlandson on 11.06.11 at 10:45 pm

Would I offer more than 10 or 15 grand for such an insignificant amount of living space?
No chance in hell!

#52 Mister Obvious on 11.06.11 at 10:54 pm

Until today’s blog I’d considered the residents of Big Smoke to be just a tad brighter than those of La La on the real estate front. Thanks Garth for blowing that misconception out of the water.

#53 Suede on 11.06.11 at 11:06 pm

Garth you forgot to add HST on top of the pre-sale, or is there none in Ontario on pre-sales?

#54 earlymidlifecrisis on 11.06.11 at 11:08 pm

The entire thing is disgusting. One thing being overlooked is that the inflated house prices caused by the above is also getting passed on to regular folk who rent. So- those people that are renting vs buying are still getting shafted. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of escaping it, even considering moving from van. Ive been looking for a bit now and all i see is shitholes 1/2 as nice as my condo for 2x the price. I’m even beginning to regret selling in the 1st place. oh well, all it ever does is rain here anyway. the only thing i will miss is my shrink.

#55 nonplused on 11.06.11 at 11:10 pm

I’ve seen much nicer and much bigger basement suites that rent for $800/month or less, and you don’t have to sleep in the laundry room. Or is that the kitchen? Living room maybe? It can’t be the hallway.

On the positive side you don’t need to make many trips to Ikea to furnish the thing.

#56 TurnerNation on 11.06.11 at 11:11 pm

Those in the lineup must be bigrider’s buddies!!!

#57 MKUltra on 11.06.11 at 11:21 pm

KARMA…arguably the Devil’s greatest invention. The concept sort of makes sense, but walk with the idea a little deeper and you may see it for the perfect trap that it is… so a Karma condo selling at over $600/sq.ft…oh what a dazzling trap indeed!

#58 Jan Etter on 11.06.11 at 11:22 pm

“#16 Unistar38 on 11.06.11 at 7:35 pm
Garth,

I have been pondering. There must be positive sides from these “forest of condos” being built in GTA.

Suddenly I got one: What about people willingly subsidize the building of affordable rental houses? Yes, there you are!

In another five years, all GTA renters will be able to live in these spiffy condos at a bargain price! The issue of shortage of rental buildings in GTA has been solved! I sincerely cannot think of another thing which is more societal positive…”

***

I don’t know if your comment was tongue-in-cheek but that’s quite percipient. St. James Town was CitiPlace 40-50 years ago. Look at it now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Town

“Another caution is that, particularly in lower-income areas, high rises can morph into “towers of poverty.” Susan McIsaac, president and chief executive officer of United Way Toronto, argues for mixed-income, mixed-use development, although her concerns are slightly different than Ms. Gratz’s.

The group’s 2011 report, Vertical Poverty, found that, in 1981, one out of every three low-income families in the City of Toronto rented a unit in a high-rise building. By 2006, this had increased to 43 per cent.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/globe-to/the-down-side-of-a-city-that-just-keeps-growing-up/article2226336/

13 years ago I paid $185/sf for a good sized unit (1000+sf) in a great, well-maintained, low maintenance, well-padded-reserve-fund condo in a great location downtown. The current p.s.f. figures Garth quotes care the scrap out of me.

#59 Tim on 11.06.11 at 11:34 pm

“Maybe you hadn’t noticed, but there are people of Asian heritage living in Canada who didn’t just get off the plane from Shanghai. I hear some were actually born here. — Garth”

DELETED

#60 Stanley on 11.06.11 at 11:41 pm

I feel so frustrated living in Toronto these days. The housing price is keep going up and up that I cannot afford the decent townhouse even though my salary is above the average Toronto family.

The new immigrants from the Middle East and China keeps buying new homes with the increased prices. As long as their capital keep coming, we have no chances to buy a home at all.

So, what is your suggestion, Garth? Keep waiting, and hoping for a house crash, or just buys a smallest house that I can afford but have to repay it in 25 years?

#61 Renters Revenge on 11.06.11 at 11:52 pm

I wrote a similar letter to my Conservative MP and the only response I got was that he would forward it to Jim Flaherty. I’m really surprised I haven’t heard back.

#62 Devore on 11.06.11 at 11:57 pm

#54 earlymidlifecrisis

One thing being overlooked is that the inflated house prices caused by the above is also getting passed on to regular folk who rent. So- those people that are renting vs buying are still getting shafted.

Nothing is being overlooked, according to Sauder’s Rent Index data. And no renter is getting shafted, so long as renting remains cheaper than buying.

#63 99% on 11.06.11 at 11:59 pm

Mark Carney has been appointed head of global banking regulator. I guess Canada is viewed as the model for the world with a financial system to be envied and admired. Gee – I guess I should have known that everyone else in the world envies me cause I can’t afford to buy a home, can’t even afford to eat Kraft dinner, and have a huge swelling debt getting bigger by the day.

#64 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.07.11 at 12:02 am


#22 Smoking Man — “We have an extremely stupid population…” — Except for us here!

#23 Tim — “Many Canadians were stupid enough to vote for Harper . . .” — True. They were suckered in delusions of grandeur, soon they will pay for it. Their freedom of Choice.

#42 Smoking Man — It seems the number 11 is well known in the NWO model — 9:59 clip. Thanks for the feedback!
*
Thought For The Day! — “When people are universally ignorant, and debauched in their manners, they will sink under their own weight without the aid of foreign Invaders.” Samuel Adams to James Warren, 1775 (wrh.com).

Does this apply to today’s dumbass zombiewoofs?
*
Bank Exodus from Eurozone troublespots. With people switching to Credit Unions here, this whole thing is moving along very smoothly; 8:59 clip The economic collapse, maybe or maybe not and 9:05 clip The economic collapse part deux. Gimme Shelter; 3:23 clip Where did our money go? It is being withdrawn, ever so quietly from us; History Wall St. is the govt. Who runs Wall St.? Necessary Collapse The west’s financial system; 26 Nov., 2011 Buy Nothing Day. Not a sausage, buggerall!

4:39 clip Euro could be be dead by the end of Nov., but that will be a political, not economic choice, just like hyperinflation; G20 Garbage 20.
*
Iran’s Nuke WMD Facility “Yeah, we gotta slaughter them for this one!” wrh.com; Not So Positive Proof “Only a week ago the media was showing pictures of a building in Syria and claiming it was a uranium enrichment facility. Then a few days later it was revealed that it was just a textile factory and the rows of spinning machines were just that; spinning thread for weaving.” wrh.com. The m$m is controlled, paid-for and manipulated; Baking Trays Other than yummy goodies, it also helps weak wifi.

Home Invasions Twelve mistakes to avoid; Depop. Money (investment) is required first, then cull the politicos, lobbyists, etc. They are a pointless waste of taxpayers money, and wouldn’t be missed; Wind Farms The source of The Great God Flatulence? Just Call Me Lucifer It gives rise to Pope Benny’s physical body being used by the negative force, a.k.a. Satan or the devil. He is Pope #265, and there were 266 prophesied before Rome falls; FEMA What’s this EAS test for? Pakistan “I would strongly advise those in the bowels of power in DC to remember that last May, after the alleged US “hit” on Bin Laden, that the Chinese government made very specific statements about any attack on Pakistani sovereign territory would be construed as an attack against China. Official statements from the Chinese government rarely get more clear and unambiguous than that.” wrh.com; Stuxnet II Yep, you guessed it; Odownfall Solyndragate.

#65 bcpaul on 11.07.11 at 12:08 am

#23 Tim on 11.06.11 at 8:08 pm

Many Canadians were stupid enough to vote for Harper, these same people are probably the bulk of the people stupid enough to buy condos at these prices

Tim, only a fool would think that this would have been any different if the Liberal’s were in power. Do you really think zero interest and 0 down/40 yr mortgages were the feds idea?

#66 Rich in Calgary on 11.07.11 at 12:17 am

Methinks that in less than 12 months those people will have strong feelings about the expression – “Karma is a Bitch.”

#67 Thetruth on 11.07.11 at 12:30 am

#38 Jess

Same thing happening here. When a permanent resident senior dies overseas, family in Canada keeps collecting GIS/OAS indefinitely as death is never reported here. For up to a year collections are made.

With CPP, for a person living overseas, date of death and end of CPP benefits can be many years, or decades, apart (living in third world countries ).

2 million Cdn citizens live overseas. Many more perm residents overseas. Are they onto something??

#68 Unistar38 on 11.07.11 at 12:41 am

#58 Jan,

I was tongue-in-cheek.

But I don’t understand your point. Is poverty caused by highrises? One would think people at least have a roof on their head.

#69 BCing You on 11.07.11 at 12:49 am

#34 Mac, #40 Unistar38,

How can you look at this photo and think that the people are ‘from’ China. You can’t tell where they are from or much else from this photo!

Today, about 25% of metro Vancouver’s population is descendant from China but that doesn’t mean the people alive today are ‘from’ China. Vancouver has alway had a large population desendant from China. I have a good friend of mine whose great-grand parents immigrated to Victoria in the 1860’s, almost 150 years ago. There are several hundred descendants from those people living across much of Canada today and that is just from one family. The descendants are not from China and are not Chinese from a cultural perspective. Their culture is as Canadian as anyone else who have been here for generations. They have little or no connection (monetarily or emotionally) to China, they don’t have bucket loads of money coming from China. These people are ‘from’ Canada.

Even for those who are recent immigrants from China or anywhere else, and I know dozens, I have yet to meet any who brought large quantities of money from their country of birth.

I suspect that the number of people bringing large quantities of money from China is very small.

#70 Peter Pan on 11.07.11 at 12:51 am

Saxton is an idiot… he drives around the North Shore with his mini SUV emblazoned with his “ANDREW SAXTON, MP CONSERVATIVE PARTY” shrink-wrap advertising emblazoned over the entirety of his vehicle. He’s a trained seal… Perfect for the purposes of the Harper government.

#71 Peter Pan on 11.07.11 at 12:56 am

What I love about the Karma Condo picture above is the late series Merc and BMW in the covered parking stalls right next to the entrance…
The suggestion is
“Wow, you could own one of these if you just buy one of these cool condos.”
whereas the reality is
“You suckers in line are financing the marketers’ and salespeoples’ leases on their new luxury cars.”

#72 Van guy waiting on 11.07.11 at 1:06 am

#40 Unistar38

“Yes. They are from China. But don’t be negative on them. Look from the positive side. They are making great economic contribution to Canada, i.e., eventual affordable housing for Canadians, when all dust settles.”

Housing might not even be affordable even at a 40% correction. High unemployment is coming so people can’t buy when they have no job. Look at the dirt cheap homes in Phoenix. At $150,000 for a 3000 sq/ft home, this still sits on the market waiting for a Canadian investor to snatch it up.

#73 Stevenson on 11.07.11 at 1:13 am

So houses and condos still have high demand and even before they are built? Did we not predict the opposite to happen a while ago? The end is near(depending how you describe near?)

So forein

#74 Stevenson on 11.07.11 at 1:25 am

So foreign investors are willing invest in canada and the local overpaid teacher or municipal worker can’t afford to afford housing in vancouver. Well boo hoo too bad. Go move further out of the city. There is no problem with that. This world runs on one thing, currency. Make more money or deal with it, there is no free lunch. Stop blaming others for being responsible. Everyone here could of made profit easily if they bought in the lows of 2008. Bubble or not some individuals speculate and they are better off now. Maybe in your minds maybe they still should of rented…… A

#75 HouseBuster on 11.07.11 at 1:29 am

Those sound like FOREX leverage numbers.

#76 Van guy waiting on 11.07.11 at 1:38 am

Garth podcast, great audio!!!

http://www.howestreet.com/audio/TWIM_NOV5_WEB.mp3

Garth, you sound like a guy that could never write any of these posts.

#77 Crash Callaway on 11.07.11 at 1:50 am

How much longer will this insanity go on?
Until the music stops.
Until we stop conning each other to keep plugging the jukebox.
And at the end of the dance when that jukebox is cracked open it will only contain buttons, slugs & I.O. U.’s

#78 Jay Currie on 11.07.11 at 2:06 am

Meanwhile, in the home of the HAM:

“The last four weeks, however, must have been a sobering period for Premier Wen, and not only because developers began to lose their nerve. For one thing, recent purchasers have taken to the streets because they had suffered losses even before taking possession of their homes. A crowd of about 300 people in Shanghai smashed windows at the sales office of Longfor Properties on October 22, two days after the builder had ended a sales promotion on a project. The protestors had bought properties in earlier phases of the same project at prices as much as 30% higher than the discounted ones.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2011/11/06/property-prices-collapse-in-china-is-this-a-crash/

#79 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.07.11 at 2:12 am


Unwanted bill EU sends UK a bill for something it didn’t do, and Merkel says debt crises will last a decade; Democratic Deficit How can a deficit be democratic? I didn’t vote for one, so I’m not paying someone else’s bills; Reality for the Euro elites (doesn’t exist).

Smoking Man Pour vous. Roger Waters 1:59 clip; Gold No one mentions Germany owes Greece billions for WW2 damage; Anger at greed grows; Black Friday, Swiss Chard, Bacon Burgers, China Next crisis centre? GICs, CSBs Risk-free? Thing again; The Xpurts are wrong.
*
Fukushima Ongoing fission trouble, and German nuke prof. warns of possible explosion. The US and Israel created the Stuxnet virus, which prevented the site from automatically shutting down when the ‘quake happened. If the explosion happens, they should be on the hook for world-wide reparations; Star Trek episode never seen in Germany until recently. Recall the swastika? Prison Costs “One year at Princeton University: $37,000. One year at a New Jersey state prison: $44,000.” Harper is building more prisons?

PACWAV11 When, or if El Hierro bows, there will be a tsunami which sinks the east, and Evacuate El Hierro acting up; Jelly Wobble Tester Funny goo spreading over UK; Obomba More wars? Well, Israel has demanded the US reinstate the draft to attack Iran, so the answer is yes, and Lawless Libya Things have improved greatly under the US – NATO takeover.

#80 MixedBag on 11.07.11 at 2:14 am

If a house is a money pit, then a condo is an abyss.

#81 dd on 11.07.11 at 2:31 am

FYI

The following is the YOY increase in Consumer Price Inflation in the US from January thru September of 2011: 1.7%, 2.2%, 2.7%, 3.1%, 3.4%, 3.4%, 3.6%, 3.8% and 3.9%.

CDN rates will fall into line too. Those 5% div are not looking so good.

#82 Peter B on 11.07.11 at 3:02 am

A condo of 227 square feet. In a prison they call that over crowding. Escape from Toronto.

#83 noodles 79 on 11.07.11 at 3:27 am

With all the fancy gadgets out there,it seems people have forgoten how to use a simple calculator,Im glad someone still knows how!

#84 Phil & T on 11.07.11 at 4:44 am

Wouldn’t it make more sense right now to buy a secondhand RV? At least then you could change your surroundings cheaply (and have a home that you could “take with you” should you need to relocate for employment purposes??) – And, most “reasonably modern” RV’s have far better insulation than most “older” condos!!

#85 Beach Girl on 11.07.11 at 4:56 am

I would not want to live in the sky. 20 years from now, when these things are not paid off and are falling apart, what happens. Vertical poverty, I like that phrase.

I am mad at the government for building more huge jails, when crime rates are low, and an aging population. I suspect, these will be the seniors homes of the future. Be careful with your investments. Or that is were you will be. And you are not getting out.

#86 Onemorething on 11.07.11 at 5:37 am

The last of the buying fools enter!

#87 wtf????? on 11.07.11 at 6:32 am

Taxpayers have money to burn…they’re stupid too…..you may as well jump in…..everyone else is. Garth an his paranoia are just holding you back from getting on the gravy train…this will never end…..never never never !

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/home-cents/from-homeless-to-home-owner/article2226010/

Money is cheap and easy, line up…..they’re giving it away…..risk free.

#88 David B on 11.07.11 at 7:32 am

Nothing changes, nothing changes, like Greece these and others will be bailed out by all taxpayers. MP’s and Senators will live better to-day than yesterday.

#89 bigrider on 11.07.11 at 8:15 am

#56 Turnernation- “those in the lineup must be bigrider’s buddies”

No, my buddies are the ones building them and selling them to fools like you.

#90 bigrider on 11.07.11 at 8:18 am

Garth, some of the pre-sale condos of new Greenpark building at Yonge and Davisville… well a little birdie has told me that some of the buyers are backing out.

I hope it is a sign of the start of cooling.

#91 GTA Girl on 11.07.11 at 8:38 am

There was a big Fall Propert Show in Toronto this past weekend. One well known RE investor guru made a claim that Toronto’s population will increase by 2million people over next 20yrs. This will require 40,000 new housing units to be built every year. He also went on to say that in Q1-Q3 of this year, 9billion dollars of new condos were sold in the GTA.

The numbers seem staggering. And I question them.

The show participants heavily pumped condos as investments. Pushed that condos in resale will always go up.

This is craziness. It reeks of late 80’s/90’s when developers used every circus trick to squeeze coins from middle income folks. When townhouses in Mississauga wasteland were being sold close to $200,000, many of which can only now, 20yrs later can only get a meager amount more.

Criminal.

#92 Marc L on 11.07.11 at 8:40 am

Taxpayers have money to burn…they’re stupid too…..you may as well jump in…..everyone else is. Garth an his paranoia are just holding you back from getting on the gravy train…this will never end…..never never never !

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/home-cents/from-homeless-to-home-owner/article2226010/

Money is cheap and easy, line up…..they’re giving it away…..risk free.

—————————

So I guess the last time you paid PST-GST on a good or service you confirmed your stupidity?
Only an pure idiot could say that taxpayers are stupid.
But if you don’t pay any tax, then you are likely an unemployed street bum who begs for money and sneaks into the public library to use a computer to posts idiotic comments on this pathetic blog.

I’d rather be a taxpayer than a beggar (societal freeloader) or an idiot.

#93 GTA Girl on 11.07.11 at 8:46 am

Stevenson? Your notions defy basic economics.

Ghost-town condos 2/3 empty foreign owned, don’t drive a cities economic engine. Unsustainable.

Economic drive still depends on people having jobs and pouring money back thru the system. The more jobs with people able to spend, save, invest, makes for a healthy growing economy.

Stagnant growth, unlivable high debt, unaffordable daily lives cannot continue. The base of the pyramid holds the rest up.

#94 Ben on 11.07.11 at 9:00 am

Looks like my Dallas hotel room for $720 a month. My utilities, wireless internet, cable TV, daily towels/bed sheets and shampoo are included.

LMAO

#95 fancy_pants on 11.07.11 at 9:05 am

Yup, those folk will feel the Karma first hand – the natural laws of causation. Too bad for them Karma is a Chameleon – it won’t be good Karma coming around.

#96 Shane on 11.07.11 at 9:21 am

Garth, going off topic here do you think buying commercial realestate on Lakeshore Blvd and Cawthra rd in mississuaga is a good investment?

Shane

Which street number? :-) — Garth

#97 Victor on 11.07.11 at 9:28 am

#71 Peter Pan on 11.07.11 at 12:56 am

What I love about the Karma Condo picture above is the late series Merc and BMW in the covered parking stalls right next to the entrance…

==============

Mercedes yes.
BMW no.

Look more closely…

#98 Anotherlowlyrenter on 11.07.11 at 9:35 am

Since China (and HAM) can do no wrong I thought your readers would appreciate these comments from China’s premier. While China recognizes the dangers of too high property prices, it’s fascinating to me that Canada does not.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-07/china-s-stocks-fall-amid-property-curb-concerns-greece-leadership-meeting.html

#99 cliffard on 11.07.11 at 9:43 am

To smoking man and nostradamus le mad vlad. Get a room

#100 live within your means on 11.07.11 at 9:43 am

#85 Beach Girl on 11.07.11 at 4:56 am
I would not want to live in the sky. 20 years from now, when these things are not paid off and are falling apart, what happens. Vertical poverty, I like that phrase.

I am mad at the government for building more huge jails, when crime rates are low, and an aging population. I suspect, these will be the seniors homes of the future. Be careful with your investments. Or that is were you will be. And you are not getting out.

……………………

For those who are upset with the current govt.’s crime bill, checkout http://www.leadnow.ca/keep-canada-safe

#101 Shane on 11.07.11 at 9:49 am

Garth, Right beside lakeview park by hydro rd where that old plant use to be that they knock down.

Shane

Google ‘sarcasm. ‘ — Garth

#102 Incubus on 11.07.11 at 9:54 am

I would like to do a IQ test of these pigeons.

#103 Jan Etter on 11.07.11 at 9:59 am

“#68 Unistar38 on 11.07.11 at 12:41 am
#58 Jan,

I was tongue-in-cheek.

But I don’t understand your point. Is poverty caused by highrises? One would think people at least have a roof on their head.”
***

I certainly don’t correlate poverty with highrises, Manhattan is an obvious example. However, the point made by some of the panelists in the G&M article I linked is that careful planning is required to encourage a mix of socio-economic groups and neighbourhood amenities and “social infrastructure” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_and_Finch) that would give a large-scale community like CitiPlace a chance to sustain itself, rather than fall prey to the concentration of lower-income population like what happened in St. James Town. It’s probably trite to say that location is critical as well but I’ll say it anyway.

My point was that the relative lack of neighbourhood amenities compared to the high concentration of buildings at CitiPlace remind me of St. James Town. Current Bloor West condo development is more akin to the Manhattan-style mix of office and high-end retail with better scale to the existing streetscapes, and without the intense concentration of residential towers.

Also, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a certain level of rentals in a community designed (at least notionally) for owner-occupation. However, if a) property values collapse in the condo market like they did in the early 90’s in Toronto, combined with excess supply caused by overbuilding and the resulting speculator dump and b) lending standards and credit tighten and wages/economic growth stagnate, I could see your tongue-in-cheek scenario come to fruition. Many individual property speculators would not have the resources to hang on or to acquire but perhaps some opportunitistic companies would take the opportunity to acquire stock for rental portfolios. Many an empire has been built or rested on the timely acquisition of rental portfolios.

http://springergroup.com/live

#104 disciple on 11.07.11 at 10:13 am

Brilliant move by the Mental Masters, get the herd to finance their own sky-jails, physical and economic.

#64 Nosty and #42 Smoking Man… not sure if this was ever posted here, but here is a CBC appetizer on the blatant symbolism in the Manitoba legislature. Winnipeg was chosen for its location as the geometric centre of the land mass of NA (I believe).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqO52erTdqk

Full moon on the 10th, followed by 11-11-11, it’s shaping up to be an interesting week.

#105 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 10:16 am

That last picture of the CONs is scary.
I was tempted to vote for Tim Hudak PC in latest Ontario election (it was him vs. Lib incumbant Dolton McG).

But I saw a magazine photo of Hudak with his top staffers. They all wore these dour, trite looks on their faces (kind of like: “you are with us, or with the terrorists”).
As a relatively free, thinking man I really resent their brand of glum fear-based mongering.

Apparently Harper said of the election: if elected, Hudak would complete the CONtrifecta with Toronto Mayor Ford and he. That alone is scary enough.

Their dogma is over the top. The guys and gals in the top picture do not look like sober, honourable stateman and women. Rather they look like racous idiots: look at me look what I can do! I’m a loyal follower and paid handsomely for it. Go Leader! Our Glorious Leader and his plan. Statism: the most dangerous movement in the world.

#106 Shane on 11.07.11 at 10:16 am

Garth, What do you mean by Google ‘sarcasm. ‘ — Garth

Shane

I do not give advice on the relative merits of buying properties at specific addresses, as there are far too many factors to consider. So, I was being sarcastic in asking you for a street location. If you wish to send me a listing offline at [email protected] I will provide some general comments. For advice, use a knowledgeable local agent. — Garth

#107 disciple on 11.07.11 at 10:18 am

#96 Shane… that’s close to my old neighbourhood. It’s run-down, not close to any amenities, stinks, and I don’t understand why anybody lives there, let alone would want to conduct business there. Too much stagnant old money, no hope, no vision, nothing changing, crimes and gangs galore, unfriendly, and without any future. Unless the old guard dies off or move on, which I find unlikely for a good chunk of years…

So, the answer is no, not a good investment.

#108 Realitybytes on 11.07.11 at 10:24 am

If I wuz brite ida figurd a way to “short” condos.

Commit to paying me 450K four years from now for that condo pre-ordering today @ 500K . I’ll guarantee delivery no matter what it costs, and hope to pick it up at auction after the bubble bursts for 250K.

#109 TaxHaven on 11.07.11 at 10:27 am

“Teachers, firefighters and police officers” are not “the middle classes”.

They are extremely well-paid government employees who face no fear of job loss and can look forward to iron-clad benefits and pensions the rest of us saps in the fast-vanishing wealth-producing class can only dream about…

Even with today’s worthless cheap “money”, do government employees have a statistically easier time getting approved for mortgages than the rest of us?

One wonders…

#110 cxcroney on 11.07.11 at 10:35 am

#70

Saxton, not just a seal, but a Harp..er Seal!

#111 Shane on 11.07.11 at 10:51 am

I agree to post #107 i have a friend that bought in the area not me. thanks

Shane

#112 refinow on 11.07.11 at 10:59 am

$100 a month for “parking and locker maintenance”?!!
What are they doing? Going in and polishing the floor of your locker every month?
That’s just crazy!

Price for picking up the needles and making sure you are not subletting your 50 sg ft’ locker as an apartment.

#113 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 11:04 am

Looking at that condo lineup picture…can we say “Obiedence”?
Unless one is lining up for scarce food, they are lining up due to ‘mind control’ (greed, fear: must buy condo NOW – price will rise).

In school we are forced to line up.
Ditto in the army
During last year’s big pharma/media “swine flu” scare/profit drive there were massive lineups outside of the injection stations (sounds so Orwellian, doesn’t it).

Think now, for what else do people line up? For TVs! On boxing day – for their dose of Programming (TV programs). Sounds so Orwellian, doesn’t it.

So there you have it: unless one is lining up for food, they are acting in fear/greed programing mind control mode.

I knew an old Futures broker who was around during the lst good bubble – early 1980s. He spoke of people lined up outside his office, clamouring for accounts. Fear/Greed/Programming at work.

#114 Herb on 11.07.11 at 11:07 am

Ah, democracy in Canadar –

http://www.hilltimes.com/news/news/2011/11/07/retired-senator-murray%E2%80%99s-stinging-attack-on-%E2%80%98broken-parliamentary-political/28742?page_requested=1

#115 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 11:19 am

#109 TaxHaven on 11.07.11 at 10:27 am

Yes – Toronto police are best-paid in Canada with starting salary of 83k. You know, it took 4 years in school and then 6 years of work for me to even approach that level of pay.

Who knew, all I had to do was bash skulls at G20 and I’d be on the gravy train.
Toronto corporate mayor Rob Ford demanded budget cuts from each department…except the police. They were allowed a slight raise. Meanwhile, city programs and libraries are being decimated.
Toronto cops paid $65/hr for traffic construction duty (directing traffic around manholes, basically).

Mayor Ford supports the union mafia, all the way.
Gold plated salaries, family benefits, pensions. And if you are accused of misconduct you still receive paid leave.

They are awesome revenue generators. It’s no wonder we see law upon law piled on to us each year: No Idling bylaw, no smoking in car with kids, no cell phone use.

#116 disciple on 11.07.11 at 11:23 am

#111 Shane… I have ZERO clients, none, zip, zilch, nada… in that area. I have clients from all over the GTA, including Jane-Finch. (Since “Check the O.R.” Jane-Finch is not as bad anymore, LOL). They’ve tried to stuff in some new townhouses, a couple of new plazas and such, but it’s lipstick on a pig. I guarantee you that if you attempt a fresh new business in the area, you will be “visited” eventually. Cops are more corrupt than Oakland, CA. Same goes for a few areas along the Lakeshore heading into West Toronto. Great place to visit once in a while, but I would never live there. Trust me on that one. I’ve since established that the area is a pit stop of sorts for illegal transport of guess what… to and from the border at Sarnia to the Ottawa Valley and into the Maritimes. I can’t believe I have so much info on this area… I’m surprising myself… even the lack of night lighting and over abundance of foliage in such a densely populated area would provide enormous cover even against satellite surveillance. The area has its own dialect and accent, customs, dress, and poverty is in style there regardless of race. But I guess that adds to the charm?

I wonder if other suburbs of major cities in Canada have similar places?

#117 Your Mom on 11.07.11 at 11:42 am

Canada has an extremely stupid population…..Who derive there feeling of success by what cars they drive, and the type of Garnet in the kitchen.

They are taught since Grade 1 Memorize, Regurgitate, Obey, do it well and you pass go, collect the 200 and get a degree.

The come out with not much brains, can’t solve problems or have the ability to think critically.

They do know the consequences of what happens to those that think out of the box, have there own mind and speak it openly……….

The only token gained by 50k to 100k of Student debt is a self-righteous arrogance and feeling of entitlement. That will get them into big trouble down the road…..

Renting is a losers game…Low life’s do that, not special people like us.

#118 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 11:49 am

More driving taxes for Toronto. With an online poll sample size of only 1000, one wonders just who was organized to click the Yes button.

http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/1082002–poll-shows-support-for-congestion-fees

But Toronto is CUTTING transit funding! Who in good faith penalizes drivers while we have a sub standard transit system. The 1960s era subway line and stations are mostly crumbling underground. And still no rail or subway line to the airport. TTC is cutting routes and raising fares (but the employees’ gold plated salaries and benefits will never be touched).

Score: transit and police unions 1. Taxpayers: 0.

#119 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 12:00 pm

I’m on a Devil’s Advocate-style posting rampage today. Expect I’m not spending my days and weekends sitting alone in empty open houses >:-)

116 disciple on 11.07.11 at 11:23 am
Yes I recall that song…check the OR!

The best (worst) most recent example of new condo flipping I know of is in this new small low-rise downtown Toronto condo.
Always, 35-40 units on MLS. Units are tiny, and I detect some price slippage to the downside.

Both big red dots are at the same building:

http://tinyurl.com/cbobjul

#120 Aussie Roy on 11.07.11 at 12:01 pm

Aussie Update

A rate cut should cure the RE slump, right?.
Think again

Auction clearance rates down in Australian cities despite rate cut

http://www.news.com.au/money/property/auction-clearance-rates-fall-on-rate-rise/story-e6frfmd0-1226187305475#ixzz1d2GK8Wqj

PLUMMETING demand for new houses in Melbourne will continue in coming years as most of Australia emerges from a slump, economic forecaster BIS Shrapnel says.

The revelation comes as Westpac chief Gail Kelly says the expected boost in spending from last week’s Reserve Bank rate cut could go straight to consumers’ savings accounts

http://www.news.com.au/money/property/housing-market-on-the-ropes/story-e6frfmd0-1226187233393#ixzz1d2GXQxtz

Gloomy property outlook

http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/gloomy-property-outlook-20111107-1n385.html

Housing slide to hit Victorian Budget

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2011/11/housing-slide-to-hit-victorian-budget/

Jobs going but lower interest rate make it OK.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/job-ads-fall-for-another-month-20111107-1n2rr.html

Property Advice?.
No speculators in Australia, right?.

Avoid speculation

It’s crazy to buy a property at below market value if it’s in an area where prices are set to fall. Some property advisers believe this is not a good time to speculate or to rely on the ripple effect to drive up capital growth in suburbs bordering proven growth areas.

Speculators do best when markets are running hot. With the number of properties for sale rising in many areas, your opportunity to make good money by targeting properties in established suburbs is higher. Why take the risk on an unproven area?

http://smh.domain.com.au/home-investor-centre/learn-the-golden-rules-for-buyers-20111104-1myc4.html

#121 disciple on 11.07.11 at 12:09 pm

By Judy Dempsey, New York Times, Sept 18/2011:

“I would jump at the idea of minimum wage,” said Thorsten Schulz, a 60-year-old mechanic, as he locked his old bicycle outside of the labour office.
He has temporary work paying about 7 euros an hour. “if I had a job with a decent wage,” he said. “I could even take the bus.”

Employees in Germany’s service sector earn as little as 640 euros a month.
Low unemployment and steady growth despite the global downturn have made Germany the envy of its less robust European partners.
But hidden behind the so-called German economic miracle is an underclass of low-paid employees.
Nowhere is this deepening chasm more visible than in Berlin-Mitte, the prosperous center of the capital, where hundreds of men and women lined up recently at the district employment office.

#122 jess on 11.07.11 at 12:16 pm

language arbitrage – insert complicated code to reform bills that no member of congress reads or ask questions about.

jack Abramoff – influence peddling how to book
earned 20m /year until 5years ago
guilty tax fraud 3/1/2 years in prison
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387331n&mid=52147

#123 Form Man on 11.07.11 at 12:35 pm

#115 Devil’s Advocate on 11.05.11

Once again DA is pulling numbers out of thin air. In fact the U.S. housing market is down on average 33% from the peak according to Case Shiller ( Oct 31 2011, CNN Money ), putting prices back at 2002 levels . The Kelowna market is down 15 to 20 % from the peak, but Canada on average has not dropped yet ( DA apparently doesn’t realize Canada is a country outside Kelowna’s boundaries ). Case Shiller also expects the U.S. market to drop another 5-10 % before it bottoms. If Kelowna were to revisit the 2002 prices ( not completely unlikely ) that would translate to approximately a 50% reduction from the peak. DA’s delusion and misinformation is either the result of deliberate intention, or the ravings af a madman…..you choose. The fact is Kelowna is a good proxy for Phoenix. Both cities are so-called ‘retirement meccas’, with economies heavily reliant on the housing industry, and both cities are suffering from a lack of population growth currently. The fact that thier respective housing markets and economies are closely correlated should be no surprise. I had drinks with some local bankers on the weekend. They described the ‘shadow housing inventory’ in Kelowna as ‘frighteningly large’. Looks like DA is going to be working a lot harder in the near future trying to scare up some housing sales……unless he is busy bouncing around a padded cell in a straitjacket…..

#124 vyw on 11.07.11 at 12:43 pm

Vancouver up 128% in 10 years:
ReMax report: http://www.remax-oa.com/MediaNewsroom/Lists/PressReleases/Attachments/69/REMAX_HE_2011_RPT.pdf

According to VREB, Vancouver real estate is up 163% (look at 5th column over):
Realtylink: http://www.rebgv.org/housing-price-index?region=all&type=all&date=2011-10-01

#125 Kurt on 11.07.11 at 12:48 pm

#79 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad

“The US and Israel created the Stuxnet virus, which prevented the site from automatically shutting down when the ‘quake happened.”

Dear lord…

Please, please do not spread crap like this. The design basis accident used in the site design was much too small. All systems worked as designed until the tsunami topped the sea wall, including the reactors tripping the moment the quake hit. All the damage we’ve seen is the result of inadequate removal of decay heat, both from the fuel inventory in the reactors and from the spent fuel in the pools.

Immediately following shutdown, the fuel dumps heat at about 6.5% of the operating power of the unit. So for a 460MW electrical (Fukushima dai-ichi #1) at 33% thermal efficiency, you get 89MW thermal. Just to give you a sense of scale, here’s a link to a youtube video of an electric arc furnace at about 16MW thermal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijWwfcw0FOo&feature=related

At about 1:51-1:53 you can see a man taking a steel sample (just to give you some scale.)

Conspiracy theory crap like that allows people to avoid confronting the much more difficult reality – that the nuke industry and its regulators, both in Japan and in the United States, are waaaaay too cozy. Making a system to dump that kind of power WTSHTF is expensive, so the regulator and the operator collaborated to under-design the plant, and then keep it operating when it became clear how ridiculously under-designed it was. (Fukushima dai-ichi #1 was granted a 10 year life extension 2 years ago when under any sane regulatory regime – like, say, if Linda Keen was running it – that sucker would have been de-fueled and junked, and the whole site mothballed until it was secured against *documented* historic tsunami.)

#126 Kilby on 11.07.11 at 12:54 pm

Andrew Saxton, I believe is the only MP in the last election that supports tanker traffic on BC’s west coast. Not relevant I know but seeing his name just made me think about it. Great picture, looks like a chamber of commerce or CREA rah rah meeting.

#127 wtf????? on 11.07.11 at 1:03 pm

‘Millionaires on paper’ syndrome is turning Canadians into debt junkies.

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/11/04/millionaires-on-paper/

We wants a yacht….we wanna’ travel to Fraaaaaaaaaaance’ How ‘cum we’re can’t find any caaaaaaash? Aren’t we millionaires? The bank says we are and they want to lend us some money so wwe can live live live!!!!!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa …..suckers.

#128 Van guy waiting on 11.07.11 at 1:06 pm

Buy now, why wait? 7% gains for life hahaha

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/rent+that+question/5595374/story.html

#129 Aussie Roy on 11.07.11 at 1:20 pm

vyw on 11.07.11 at 12:43 pm

Vancouver up 128% in 10 years:

According to VREB, Vancouver real estate is up 163%

………………………………………………………………………

Your point is what?, look, yeah nice bubble?.

How much have wages gone up during this time?.
Let me guess, that doesn’t matter, just like rental yields – LOL.

Any chance you can show us a market, any market that has gone up this much without coming back down to earth, or atleast heading that way?.

Australia?
USA?
UK?
Spain?
Ireland?
China?
Anywhere?

#130 Devore on 11.07.11 at 1:21 pm

#121 disciple

But hidden behind the so-called German economic miracle is an underclass of low-paid employees.

It’s not a “miracle”, and it’s not hidden. It’s common knowledge, everywhere except North America it seems, the basket case east German economy has remained so ever since reunification. Takes a long time to teach an old dog new tricks.

#131 HDJ on 11.07.11 at 1:34 pm

Remax/CTV quote – Monday AM. “You can’t raise your family in a mutual fund.” Funny, eh?

#132 GTA Girl on 11.07.11 at 1:36 pm

Disciple; I laughed when you so accurately described west Lakeshore area. It’s always been the sordid backwater of Toronto. Never considered by the masses. It has that odd vibe to it. And ‘yes’ to the accent.

BigRider; curious people would back out of GreenPark Development. The builder has always had a good decent name and better quality then most builders. What’s up?

#133 maxx on 11.07.11 at 1:47 pm

#22 Smoking Man on 11.06.11 at 8:07 pm

“hypostasis”!

Smoke, was that intentional? If so, brilliant!!!

#134 TaxHaven on 11.07.11 at 1:50 pm

@TurnerNation…so what are you going to do? Vote NDP and it will get even worse.

I’ll tell you what people will do: they’ll vote with their feet and wallets. Taxes, fees and regulations – and property taxes – just go up and up and up no matter who or what party is in control.

What will that eventually do to the saleability of city houses?

BTW, most Canadians live in la-la dreamland. The real, free market in labour doesn’t care how long an employee went to school, how much experience one has, how much money employees think they “need” or what a “living wage” is, or whatever.

If one isn’t in a public sector union (which couldn’t exist except for governments, guns and laws), protected from cheaper and more efficient labour competition, one has to face the MARKET.

#135 Mister Sanity on 11.07.11 at 2:02 pm

#37 T.O. Bubble Boy

For some of the buildings out there, that is almost impossible (because property tax + condo fees + other fees are almost the same as rents, even before mortgage costs are factored in).

These condos could almost be free, and you’d still lose money renting them out.

—————

Good point! The older condos with reasonable maintenance fees (think $0.30/ft) will be where the opportunities are when everything corrects. I remember in 2002 living in 1000 sq.ft. in Mississauga @ Square One -> could’ve bought that place for $140k. Today, it’s $200k. Why? Because it’s ‘old’. Anything over 20 years old in condo-land will be ripe for the picking when the fancy ‘new’ condos correct, taking everything along them.

#136 Marc L on 11.07.11 at 2:08 pm

#117 Your Mom on 11.07.11 at 11:42 am

Canada has an extremely stupid population…..Who derive there feeling of success by what cars they drive, and the type of Garnet in the kitchen.

They are taught since Grade 1 Memorize, Regurgitate, Obey, do it well and you pass go, collect the 200 and get a degree.

The come out with not much brains, can’t solve problems or have the ability to think critically.

They do know the consequences of what happens to those that think out of the box, have there own mind and speak it openly……….

The only token gained by 50k to 100k of Student debt is a self-righteous arrogance and feeling of entitlement. That will get them into big trouble down the road…..

Renting is a losers game…Low life’s do that, not special people like us.

_______________________

Oh my! You must be a very difficult person to live with, a nightmare in my opinion. You should consider getting some therapy… scary!!

You are describing yourself – without the degree of course. But the arrogance is in abundance.

Get some help baby!!

#137 Pr on 11.07.11 at 2:18 pm

The housing marquet in Canada, its like a pyramid scam, the first ones always make a decent return. Its only the last one in who goes bust!

#138 EdmontonGuyHere on 11.07.11 at 2:23 pm

Move to Edmonton! LOL
At least here the Housing Bubble has already started to pop, we are down about 15-30% (depending on the area) from the Real Estate Peak in 2007. Most recently prices fell about 5% in JUST ONE MONTH!
You can get a tiny studio apartment like mentioned in the article for UNDER $39,000, and taxes are only $317 a year since Edmonton is so dirty and has the highest murder rate in Canada! http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?&PropertyId=11212560&PidKey=-1896694123

#139 disciple on 11.07.11 at 2:23 pm

#134 TaxHaven… your beloved “free market in Labour” is as artificial as the public sector unions. You just don’t realize it because you do not consider that the cheap labour overseas is ALSO dependent on government, guns and laws. Why can’t you see that?

#140 jess on 11.07.11 at 2:31 pm

Two Reports one has number and one doesn’t

http://www.transcanada.com/docs/Key_Projects/TransCanada_US_Report_06-10-10.pdf

OR this one where the numbers are transparent…

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

=

67 Thetruth
… the fact that it was a database .The “global think takers” will exploit and give us the protected cloud. as austerity’s timetable is going to saved by big data ;^) all the JOBs and efficiency. Wow and just- in -time to end our “vertical poverty” which is now “unleashed’ since there are a greater number of workers with less mouths to feed creating more disposable income. Becoming urbanite! Isn’t this the theory of the “commodity super cycle” based on this demographic pattern.

=

87 wtf?????
maybe she had one of those gov. programs whereby if you don’t move for forty years you don’t pay back the downpayment. where was the consumer protection against the deposit fraud. remember the store thief chased down by the shop owner in Chinatown Toronto vs of the act- a -like mr. buffet 1%/week .

#141 bigrider on 11.07.11 at 2:33 pm

#132 GTA Girl.

The units have been sold entirely to insiders, friends and family with the sole intent of all of them to flip or rent out.

No one and I mean no one at that building is an end user.

Some buyers have been recently scared off by this and have realized that maybe the units are not such a great investment after all since in no way, shape or form will they carry based on even most optimistic rent projection.

#142 disciple on 11.07.11 at 2:39 pm

#125 Kurt… You are arguing that nuclear regulators allowed the under-design of a nuclear reactor. You are exchanging one conspiracy theory for another. And yet, you just stated not to do this.

You are a shill. You’ve been outed. Who’s idea was it to build nuclear reactors close to fault lines? Mossad has its dirty little paws in almost everything, including Julian Assange. I use a couple of anonymous IPs that appear to be static and consistent, so don’t bother, you won’t be able to pinpoint my location, Kurt Shill – ing.

#143 new_era on 11.07.11 at 2:44 pm

There no use in complaining to the government.

Canada is way way too deep in debt and the world ecomony which was the engine to Canada’s success is now stalled for at least several years.

It would be political suicide to raise rates because a 1 to 2 percent raise in rates will most likely clobber the economy. Because we are run by politicians, I trust the will do whatever it takes for their political survival, but not what is healthy for the economy, so basically they will continue to kick the can down the road until they run out of road.

Just note we think were different, but were not, and we do have a prototype of other econonies which faced this situation,

– Greece
– USA
– Portugal
– soon Italy
– soon Spain

and look, interest rates for all these countries spiked.
Except for the USA whom has a printing press and can print out of thin air.

So sometime down the road, expect inflation, interest rates increase as we continue to spiral our economy down the sewers

#144 zeeman1 on 11.07.11 at 3:11 pm

#106 Shane.

How can someone with such a lack of comprehension be contemplating the purchase of commercial real estate? How can you not be aware of it’s potential value as a business investment but be willing to drop the coin?

#145 Smoking Man on 11.07.11 at 3:19 pm

#22 Smoking Man on 11.06.11 at 8:07 pm

Ha I set a trap, was waiting for the grammar police to pounce on me with a bo bo
You idiot, you spelt Hypothesis wrong.

It was brilliant . Sadly my most important lesson went over everyone’s head.
Hegelian Dialectic know this and you are on the way to success by virtue of it will be tough for anyone to fool you ever again……….

#146 zeeman1 on 11.07.11 at 3:20 pm

# 101 Shane.

Great area if you’re a corrupt cop, biker or cocaine smuggler.

#147 vyw on 11.07.11 at 3:30 pm

#129
What goes up eventually comes down;
sometimes below the trend as we’re seeing in the USA.

IMHO, Vancouver and Toronto still have a leg up in prices

Garth mentions speculators…we need to see realtors buying 5-10 homes on margin, and perhaps a few of us here jumping in before the market tops.

That said, markets in Kelowna, Calgary, Southern Ontario have already topped and are on the way down. Also prices in Australia have peaked (they had a great run) and are falling now.

#148 TheTruthHurts on 11.07.11 at 3:31 pm

How is that GOLD bubble doing? L O L!

#149 Smoking Man on 11.07.11 at 3:32 pm

FROM ZERO HEDGE

Desperately Seeking Rumor Causing Latest Market Spike
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 11/07/2011 – 14:12

In the past few minutes, the market, in true stung dog fashion, has soared without anyone even being faintly aware of what the actual news is. The consensus for the time being is that the primary driver of the latest

He heheheheheheheheh

#150 Tamsen on 11.07.11 at 3:51 pm

Reminds me of that downtown Vancouver “Salt” condo development when we walked by the sales office one evening a few months back and there were about 50 people waiting in line, apparently overnight, to be first when it opened in the morning – many of them had lawn chairs and sleeping bags. Every person in the line-up was Asian and they were not speaking English.

So what? — Garth

#151 Junius on 11.07.11 at 4:10 pm

#147 vyw,

You said, “IMHO, Vancouver and Toronto still have a leg up in prices”.

I know quite a few Vancouver realtors who would disagree with you. I saw a 3 on the weekend and they all said the market was slow. 2 were very pessimistic and 1 was just stumped. Guess which one is new to the business?

#152 Otto Doppelganger on 11.07.11 at 4:11 pm

http://bit.ly/uCQ98H

“Prices are continuing to rise and will continue doing so, the report adds…’Average price in Greater Vancouver currently hovers at $791,332 — up 18 per cent year-to-date — and is expected to continue its ascent in the months ahead.'”

Quick! Liquidate your diversified portfolio! Make that appointment with your mortgage broker! Real estate is the place to be [sarcasm]

#153 Shane on 11.07.11 at 4:11 pm

The Iran Problem

With this backdrop, we have increasing tension in the Middle East.

Israel recently test-fired a rocket capable of hitting Iran with a nuclear bomb. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu said Israel considers Iran to be its greatest threat. It has been widely reported that he has tried to persuade his cabinet to authorize an attack on Iran’s nuclear weapons program.

But it’s not just Israel that is building war possibilities…

Things are heating up in the UK. From the Guardian:

Britain’s armed forces are stepping up their contingency planning for potential military action against Iran amid mounting concern about Tehran’s nuclear enrichment programme, the Guardian has learned.

The Ministry of Defence believes the US may decide to fast-forward plans for targeted missile strikes at some key Iranian facilities. British officials say that if Washington presses ahead it will seek, and receive, UK military help for any mission, despite some deep reservations within the coalition government.

In anticipation of a potential attack, British military planners are examining where best to deploy Royal Navy ships and submarines equipped with Tomahawk cruise missiles over the coming months as part of what would be an air and sea campaign.

They also believe the US would ask permission to launch attacks from Diego Garcia, the British Indian ocean territory, which the Americans have used previously for conflicts in the Middle East.

Massive Spike Ahead

The threat of a new Iranian war has not been priced in. A global economic expansion has not been priced in.

In the case of the former, we could see a spike to $140 almost overnight.

In the case of the latter — which is more likely — we will see a constant grinding move higher into winter.

As a forward-looking investor, I am seeing a great deal of value in the beaten-down oil explorers and oil service companies.

One of the last places on earth you can still find oil that’s cheap to produce in enough abundance for export is Africa.

If you are able to live with some risk at the expense of high reward, now is the time to buy.

All the best,

Christian DeHaemer

#154 Devil's Advocate on 11.07.11 at 4:11 pm

#123Form Man on 11.07.11 at 12:35 pm

And you wonder why you can’t hold on and compete in the Kelowna marketplace.

#155 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 4:26 pm

#134 TaxHaven on 11.07.11 at 1:50 pm

How could NDP make it worse? An effective and cheap public transit system, education, healthcare and city programs, will help pay for themselves with a more healthy satisfied, mobile, workforce, thus reducing crime (and lowering policing costs).

Today’s strategy is the opposite: cut libraries, recreation programs, more/harsher laws. I can tell you the outcome will be greater hopelessness and crime. Thus requiring an even larger police budget. Get it? They do.

Let’s face it: we are tax slaves retuning home each night to our little cells, whiling away the hours in front of glowing screens. A healthier, plumper, more docile workforce makes for good eatin’ – the same strategy employed in factory farms. Err I mean makes better workers/slaves.

#156 GTA Girl on 11.07.11 at 4:26 pm

BigRider; it’s about time regular folk woke up. Even the trades are talking about how crazy it is. Though they are greayful to be working, but they can’t see how it’s sustainable either. They are also getting pissed off at the short cuts and costing..talk of the developers ‘cut’ being insane per building.

Some of the developers really think their poop don’t stink. Many feel they are Gods gift and demand the ring be kissed. One particular son of a developer is about to be named in a full audit of questionable municipal election act violations regarding the Mayor.

It’s time that these son’s feel what a housing bust is like. And they go get a real job and work, instead of money from daddy to buy their Maserati, and nightclubs w/the condo sales girls.

#157 Habs 76-79 on 11.07.11 at 4:29 pm

Just some thought on rhetorical words spoken in life.

Americans are constantly heard saying “God Bless America” and many believe that for some reason this God holds the USA in a special place among nations. For some reason they think the USA deserves such special blessing from their God. But why should this God or any other think the USA is more deserving than the 200 odd other nations on Earth, and each nations’ society?

Answer: No reason, there is no reason that any God would hold the USA in a special privilege of blessing above any other nation state or society.

So on to Canada. We may not go around saying “God Bless Canada” Though our current PM tries to and in a weak, almost bothered voice invoke that gibberish when he makes speeches too.

My point is really that in Canada all too many be they govt., media, other talking heads and even those Joe and Mary Six Packs often say “It’s different here” in Canada. It can be about the economy, our so called great (more an illusion that reality) social safety nets, and our said to be compassion, it can be about our banking system, it can be about real estate, it can be about most anything that these talking heads PUMP UP or PUSH.

BUT! the truth is there is NO reason why it must be different here in Canada than over a host of our other peer nations. There is no reason a God, no whatever reason why, but a SOLD DELUSION on a rather apathetic and myopic society that has been easily controlled by those with loud voices, lots of ink and agenda’s, media, govt., bureaucrats, special interests, corporate wags and many a so called expert sell it on us.

We are so intertwined first with the USA and next with other developed peers and developing nations that we cant escape issues/problems, and even monetary/economic crashes if they turn to be. But like a junkie looking for the next high, we Canucks seem to thing “It’s different here”… I say it won’t be and there is no reason for it to be.

Think about it!

#158 The InvestorsFriend on 11.07.11 at 4:59 pm

ALWAYS SOMEONE BETTER OFF AND SOMEONE WORSE

The definition of an old person is always someone about 15 years older than you and more… 35 and up when you are 20, 85 and up when you are 70…

Similarly , the rich are always those making at least 50% more than you do. The poor are anyone making 50% less.

We always view the world from where we sit.

There will always be those who are noticeably richer than us and those who are noticeably poorer.

Life’s not fair . Get used to it!

#159 neo on 11.07.11 at 5:01 pm

Why exactly did you censor my post?

Not a gold blog. Go hug your nuggets. — Garth

#160 Westernman on 11.07.11 at 5:08 pm

Wow- talk about frightening images! The first is a line of brainwashed sheep being led to the slaughter and the 2nd is a group of do-gooder,bleeding heart A-holes getting ready to squander vast sums of other peoples money… this country is really screwed.

#161 johnny5z on 11.07.11 at 5:09 pm

I was suddenly reminded of Yuri, from Odessa, who worked as a janitor. He would come by my cubicle and ask me questions on how to finance real estate – fixed rate vs floating rate. He was buying apartment buildings. I asked him what was up with all the purchases? Answer, he wanted to be an American millionaire. Asked, what’s that? ” In Russia, millionaire has a million dollars. In America, millionaire owes a million dollars.” I have a feeling that there are a lot of Canadian millionaires around these daze.

#162 new_era on 11.07.11 at 5:12 pm

#150 Tamsen on 11.07.11 at 3:51 pm

Reminds me of that downtown Vancouver “Salt” condo development when we walked by the sales office one evening a few months back and there were about 50 people waiting in line, apparently overnight, to be first when it opened in the morning – many of them had lawn chairs and sleeping bags. Every person in the line-up was Asian and they were not speaking English.

So what? — Garth
=======================

Did you offer them free coffee and muffin.

Then you’ll see that they do speak english

#163 Tamsen on 11.07.11 at 5:19 pm

“Reminds me of that downtown Vancouver “Salt” condo development when we walked by the sales office one evening a few months back and there were about 50 people waiting in line, apparently overnight, to be first when it opened in the morning – many of them had lawn chairs and sleeping bags. Every person in the line-up was Asian and they were not speaking English.”

So what? — Garth

Just thought it was an interesting observation is all, at least I thought it was telling. Might be an indication as to who are buying these overpriced condos …

#164 Westernman on 11.07.11 at 5:29 pm

Marc L-
You are 100% wrong as always. This poster -“Your Mom” has it dead right when describing Canadians… you are probably pretty young still – you will know in time.

#165 Bill Gable on 11.07.11 at 5:45 pm

“If you look at the troubles which happened in European countries, this is purely because of the accumulated troubles of the worn out welfare society. I think the labour laws are outdated. The labour laws induce sloth, indolence, rather than hardworking. The incentive system, is totally out of whack.

“Why should, for instance, within [the] eurozone some member’s people have to work to 65, even longer, whereas in some other countries they are happily retiring at 55, languishing on the beach? This is unfair. The welfare system is good for any society to reduce the gap, to help those who happen to have disadvantages, to enjoy a good life, but a welfare society should not induce people not to work hard.”

Jin Liqun, the supervising chairman of China’s sovereign wealth fund.

So – the cat’s among the pigeons now?

#166 Brian on 11.07.11 at 5:46 pm

look what 400 k can get you in Phoenix..a MANSION, compare that to a 600 sq ft closet in Toronto..CORRECTION IS COMING…im actually tempted to move.

http://search.phoenixhomes.com/detailsarmlsres_109117.cfm?startrow=1&&LOTSIZEMAX=0&ADDRESSDIR=NO&PRICEMAX=0&BEDROOMS=NO&ADDRESSNAME=&SUBDIVISIONOPS=NO&CITY=NO&SHOWLISTINGS=0&PRICEMIN=400000&SUBDIVISIONS=NO&ADDRESSSUFFIX=NO&PROPERTYTYPE=NO&LOTSIZEDIM=NO&FEATURES=NO&SITEAGENTID=0&ADDRESSNUM=&AGE=NO&AREA=NO&SQFTMIN=3501&SUBDIVISION=&LOTSIZEMIN=0&MLSNUMBER=&BATHROOMS=NO&SCHOOLDISTRICT=NO&SQFTMAX=0&ZIPCODES=NO&list_id=4616416&PageID=109116

#167 Marc L on 11.07.11 at 5:46 pm

A must see… Great Editorial on Occupy movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qqRFYv3ao

#168 Peakoilist on 11.07.11 at 6:03 pm

#85 Beach Girl

“I am mad at the government for building more huge jails”…..
=============================
beach girl, didn’t you realize that those new mega prisons will be used to house all of the OCCUPIERS…and there will be so many more of them to fill them..that’ll teach them for exercising their democratic right to free expression and assembly in the public square.

#169 Form Man on 11.07.11 at 6:24 pm

#154 Devil’s Advocate

its ok, o feverish one. remain calm. the guys in the white coats are coming with your meds……..one day the sun will rise again for realtors in Kelowna, just not for a few years…….did you check out the update from Royal Lepage today..?……?

#170 Form Man on 11.07.11 at 6:38 pm

#154 Devil’s Advocate

I actually don’t wonder. I know. I like making money, and I don’t make a practice of squandering my winnings in a losing market. In any case, don’t worry about me so much, I have made out fine ( as you well know )…….it is you who need to make some sales………

#171 Mr. Plow on 11.07.11 at 6:41 pm

Hey I see our MP in the back of that picture with the blue turban. Go get ’em Tim, good to see proof that you are actually in parliament.

#172 jess on 11.07.11 at 6:45 pm

167 Marc L

these certainly aren’t unemployed hipsters with huge college loans
http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/blog/entry/nurses-take-on-wall-street/
=========
Auditors on the take
Hartnett was Whitehall’s most ‘wined and dined’ civil servant, treated by corporations 107 times in 3 years to top a survey of 172 senior civil servants [3]. Tory MPs and commentators from across the political spectrum have joined the call for Hartnett to resign [4] [5] [6].

Occupy London supporter Kyshia Davey said: “HMRC has just announced it will be going after 146,000 pensioners to demand hundreds of pounds from them following a tax code cock-up. Meanwhile, its boss is striking secret deals with opulent corporations to let them off billions of pounds in tax. Hartnett is fatally undermining public confidence in the UK’s tax system at a time of austerity and he must resign immediately.”

UK Uncut activist Sam Gilbert added: “Whilst 25,000 rank-and-file staff at HMRC have been fired, leaving the organisation almost incapable of functioning, Hartnett has been carving out a career as the most ‘wined and dined’ civil servant in Whitehall. The money from Vodafone’s £6bn tax dodge alone could have prevented all of the cuts in public services over the past year.”

[1] http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/blog/time-to-resign
[2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8832473/Hartnett-pledges-to-answer-questions-on-odd-tax-deals.html
[3] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/7833886/Whitehalls-most-wined-and-dined-civil-servant-is-HMRCs-Dave-Hartnett.html
[4] http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/23/tax-avoidance-goldman-dave-hartnett?CMP=twt_iph
[5] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2051131/The-man-taxes-belief-fair-play.html?ito
[6] http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/23/tax-dodging-goldman-sachs-greece?newsfeed=true
http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/blog/introducing-uk-uncut-legal-action

http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/blog/introducing-uk-uncut-legal-action
==

#173 Marc L on 11.07.11 at 7:00 pm

#164 Westernman on 11.07.11 at 5:29 pm

Marc L-
You are 100% wrong as always. This poster -”Your Mom” has it dead right when describing Canadians… you are probably pretty young still – you will know in time.
_____________

You telling me I am wrong makes me feel great.
Like Bernie Madoff telling me he didn’t mean it and that he is really a good person.

Westernman… nice – lol
Go try to make your fortune at Bingo with ‘you mom’.

#174 Devil's Advocate on 11.07.11 at 7:09 pm

#169 and #170 Form Man

I get it. Many come here from the big city expecting to teach the local yokels a thing or two only to find they underestimated the competitive nature of our market due, in great part, to the overwhelming influx of similar thinkers. Most end up leaving with their tails between their legs.

Whether you lost money or did not make as much as you anticipated thanks for attending our dog and pony show. Come back anytime.

#175 cxcroney on 11.07.11 at 7:09 pm

##171 Mr. Plow

Free glove day. You can’t pass on that.

#176 The Original Dave on 11.07.11 at 7:18 pm

there are some grand openings for houses in the weston road and sheppard area in Toronto/North York that typically go fast. This time around, crickets (as G says).

There were balloons, cops, signs, guys dressed in outfits pointing in the direction of the sales office, but the office looked dead. A handful of cars.

A nice effort by them but no action.

#177 wetcoaster on 11.07.11 at 7:18 pm

Looks like some serious deer in the head lights in Victoria. The masses continue to accept unafordability at record low interest rates as normal. And they say this town is highly educated ? I guess they got the degree part but missed the class in common sense 101.

http://www.timescolonist.com/business/Victoria+house+prices+cent+decade/5669823/story.html

#178 Form Man on 11.07.11 at 7:27 pm

#174 Devil’s Advocate

I can only surmise that your reading comprehension skills are poor to nonexistent. I suppose in your sadness and anger, one should not expect any more…….As I have said many times, there are support groups for you. Also adult literacy classes at the local college etc. Please try and keep up with the facts. Keep your chin up. It does get better…….

#179 steve p on 11.07.11 at 7:42 pm

true value of this condo with rent at $1650/month and using 3.5% 5 yr mortgage is around $302,000, $263,000 if you use true 30 year mortgage rate of 4.20%

if rents fall to $1200/month true value is around $175,000
at 3.5% rate , $149,000 at true 30 year mortgage of 4.2%

#180 Westernman on 11.07.11 at 7:44 pm

Marc L:
You sure have a lot of interest in my mom…I suppose yours (if you know who she is) probably disowned you at an early age…understandable.
If I recall correctly you are one of the yard apes thats always trying to peddle the “wonderfullness” of Saskatoon…still hadn’t seen the pharmacist for your meds yet,huh? Don’t wait for spring because in Saskatoon that will be about mid-June – you’ll be completely cracked by then.

#181 nsqt on 11.07.11 at 7:47 pm

Condo…………a fancy name for apartment building.

#182 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.07.11 at 7:54 pm

#94 Ben — Your post reminded me of a segment on 60 Minutes a few years back. The lady interviewed had no land property, instead she sailed back and forth between Southampton and New York on the QE2.

When Cunard retired the ship and bought in the new Queen Mary, she switched ships. No property taxes, no maintenance of any kind, she bought a new ticket when she had to so everything was already paid for, and because most of the staff knew her anyway, she was welcomed aboard and went into a new room.

She had met thousands of different people from all across the globe, and she thoroughly enjoyed her life. Way cheaper than owning a home.

#104 disciple — “Full moon on the 10th, followed by 11-11-11, it’s shaping up to be an interesting week.”

Thanks for the link, and good post. Lotsa stuff happening here and elsewhere. Chaos had it right the other day — “Uranus rocks!”

Probably means we will be rocking and rolling before long. Cheers!
*
Women . . . The Temptress . . . The Seductress . . . The . . The . . .

Women are like phones:

They like to be held, talked to, and touched often.

But push the wrong button and your ass is disconnected.

#183 mac on 11.07.11 at 8:04 pm

Maybe you hadn’t noticed, but there are people of Asian heritage living in Canada who didn’t just get off the plane from Shanghai. I hear some were actually born here. —

Garth

So what? Some of them borrow from banks here. Some of them transfer family money from Asia to here. Some of them have just got off the plane to buy here. Some buy remotely from the sales offices set up in major Chinese cities to satisfy the demand over there.

The effect is the same. Canadian prices are being bid up to Chinese levels. Rightly or wrongly, the players believe it’s the only way to make money. Get in line and ask them. Stock market is very bad they’ll tell you. Real estate is safe. Never sell. Just hold.

Black people dance well, too. — Garth

#184 Kurt on 11.07.11 at 8:08 pm

@ #142 Disciple – Conspiracies are, by definition, covert. The collusion of the nuclear industry and the regulators is out in the open where everyone can see it (www.fairewinds.com). The collaboration is filed in public license applications, for god’s sake! It’s called regulatory capture, and it’s the number one problem of regulation today. Conspiracy theory crap lets people avoid confronting the real problems by saying “oh it’s this hidden stuff that I know about but you can’t do anything about.” My reference to Linda Keene was very deliberate – at least in Canada (don’t know about the states) we can fix this open collaboration by simply not voting for the idiots who interfered with the regulator on behalf of industry. No secret hidden conspiracies to be outed, no dark, hidden manipulations, it’s all out where you can see it, you just have to pay attention to it and get off your butt and do something about it.

BTW, Stuxnet is real, probably created by Israel and/or the US, but it attacks Siemens industrial controllers in a very subtle way. It looks for the drive frequency used in Iranian centrifuges and then makes the drive wander a little bit. The controllers that tripped Fukushima Dai-ichi #1, #2 and #3 were installed in the early 70’s when programmable, networked microcontrollers were just a dream. You don’t need Stuxnet to get a Fukushima disaster, just regulatory capture.

Tinfoil hats are used as an excuse to avoid learning how systems self-organize to benefit elites. Start your reading with Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent

#185 GuyInBurnaby on 11.07.11 at 8:20 pm

Just came across this on CBC today:

Homebuyer with huge bill not told about old leak
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/11/04/bc-homedefect.html

#186 T.O. Bubble Boy on 11.07.11 at 8:38 pm

Garth – congrats on maxing out on Facebook friends (5000)!

#187 poco on 11.07.11 at 8:40 pm

#174 DA–you said
Many come here from the big city expecting to teach the local yokels a thing or two only to find they underestimated the competitive nature of our market due, in great part, to the overwhelming influx of similar thinkers. Most end up leaving with their tails between their legs.
_____________________________________________
sounds like you’ve been backed into a corner again DA, tell us, is that what the over 8000 sellers in the Okanagan are trying to do—leave with their tails between their legs–come on you can do better than that—not such a “competitive” market is it?

you know, those sales to listings ratios are some of the lowest i’ve seen in years (anywhere) considering the number of listings there are to choose from—come on tell us it ain’t so– north and central Okanagan at 5.3% for October—all those trying to get out are going to have a long long wait

this must be what you meant when you said you “thought” we were bumping along the bottom—we certainly can’t get much lower for those ratios—now prices–that’s another problem–down– down– down– we go

DA, did you happen to get in on any of those sales last month—how many realtors up there?–pretty slim pickins at 377 sales for north and central Okanagan—now, be sure to correct me if i’m wrong

#188 eaglebay - Parksville on 11.07.11 at 8:53 pm

#153 Shane on 11.07.11 at 4:11 pm

A tip for you. Check out the Alberta Bakken Basin.
Located in Southern Alberta and Northern Montana.
Google it.
Keep an eye on the companies with large land holdings.
Money in the bank.

#189 TaxHaven on 11.07.11 at 9:01 pm

@#155 TurnerNation…

Canadians live in La-la land, as Garth said. Your problem is that you’re thinking like a Canadian.

“If people are all nice, everything will work!”

“If everyone is POSITIVE, we’ll get things done!”

“This time is different; Canada is different!”

“Here in Canada we have a Great Health Care System(TM), envied by the world!”

“If everyone cooperates, complies and pays his taxes, everything will work like it used to!”

“Canadians care about each other!” [More than people in other countries.]

“People who refuse to support social welfare schemes are cheap & heartless!”

“Canada is the honest peacekeeper, trusted all over the world!”

Come on. These are the same people that tell us to trust professionals: financial planners, mutual fund salesmen, real estate agents, doctors, lawyers, accountants, government “workers”, political leaders, even trade union leaders…

And, as for this: “An effective and cheap public transit system, education, healthcare and city programs, will help pay for themselves with a more healthy satisfied, mobile, workforce…”

Just ask Europe.

#190 eaglebay - Parksville on 11.07.11 at 9:01 pm

#155 TurnerNation on 11.07.11 at 4:26 pm

You’re a socialist joke.
Throwing money at your perceived problems will not accomplish anything.
The fundamentals of health care, education, etc… are all wrong. Been to a school lately?

#191 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 11.07.11 at 9:06 pm


EU split If they do, someone will benefit; Three min. clip Greenspan was a disaster; Bank Transfer Day Billions moved to credit unions; 5:46 clip IMF power hungry (until they choke on their own barf); GS “The special treatment for Goldman is alive and well in the UK.”; Signs “Reminds me of the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius.”; Ron Paul wins again, plus other links; 5:46 clip 5K Chinese students protest rising food prices. The protest thing is growing.

Odyssey The EU doesn’t know where it’s going; Wall St. banks Can’t handle the truth; Fixed – Broken The country is broken because the system is fixed; Iceland Let the banks fall. The sun still rises; Gold Germany says hands off;
*
49.1 Million poor in the US; Pentagon Not content with physical war, they have gone into cyber war as well; Sheraton Hotels ‘Net censorship there; Veterans Today Nuke terrorism and America’s cowboy nukes; Dictatorship / Police State Hay is a pollutant? NATO Biggest success? Destroying Libya through false allegations with the US.

El Hierro Ready to blow? Aspirin Sometimes it works, other times not; Thailand Flooding there leads to Unintended Consequences; 42:15 clip During the missing eighteen years, The Christ was widely traveled, not just to India; Leader Who will be the next leader of the free world? The Wizard Of Oz is a good bet; Fracking Oklahoma fracking causes biggest Oklahoma ‘quake; DDD m$m debauchery.

#192 Ben on 11.07.11 at 9:27 pm

#182 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad

I don’t even have vehicle, I work remotely from my hotel room. The hotel has two drivers and they drive me all over the place. To buy my groceries, to go and eat with them at a local restaurants, to hit the beer store, to go sight see. I’ve been here 7 months and all the staff know me.
Cheapest living I have ever had, it’s great!

#193 The thing in the basement on 11.07.11 at 9:31 pm

6 Benjamin – How do you feel about pro sports?

#194 Marc L on 11.07.11 at 9:38 pm

Westernman is Smokingman

Heavy drinker, incoherent, confused, moody.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism

#195 TaxHaven on 11.07.11 at 9:58 pm

@#190 eaglebay – Parksville, good to hear that some of us V. Islanders are sane…! I’m surrounded by hardboiled trade unionists, tax-eaters, rabid environmentalists, anarcho-syndicalists and industrial Luddites…

#196 Devil's Advocate on 11.07.11 at 10:20 pm

#178 Form Man on 11.07.11 at 7:27 pm

Obviously I have missed something. Possibly you, but probably me. As I keep repeating in these blogs “It is not what you say that is important it is what they hear that matters most”. You figure it out. We’ll leave it at that as I think our back and forth is degenerating and worthy of DELETION at both ends.

#187 poco on 11.07.11 at 8:40 pm

278 residential sales in the Central Okanagan shared amongst about 850 REALTORS®. Add in the North Okanagan and it would be 383 shared amongst 1,100 plus. So yes pretty slim pickings I would have to agree.

REALTOR® numbers tend to lag behind unit sales volumes much like prices. I think you are smart enough to figure it out from there.

Did I happen to get any of those sales? To tell you the truth – not enough, more than most but not enough.

I don’t think I understand what you mean by sales to listings ratios as you appear to have used it out of its industry context. Maybe you don’t understand it? If you mean months of inventory well that can be quite a misnomer. I regularly speak with sellers whose listings have expired. Many are not relisting because they cannot come to terms with the market. (Yes it is a buyers market – to a degree, but then as far as I am concerned it is ALWAYS a buyers market.) They would sell if they could get what they could have four years ago but not at today’s prices which. The thing of it is they never really had a realistic perception of their homes market value to begin with. Obviously these people were never really all that serious about selling in the first place. So should they really be counted as a part of that inventory that was for sale? I think not. I have said before, and do still maintain, that less than 50% of what is for sale in Kelowna is really seriously for sale. Of course that is, admittedly, a hard thing to qualify. I expect you will eventually see a pattern in the number of listings that just drop off over the coming months.

As far as my thought that we are bumping along bottom; I do believe that to be so. I have no way of proving it other than my gut instinct based on years of experience and having been there and done that. Time will tell. I learned far far too late in life to trust my gut instincts. Today they are my best guide and have failed me little. But you should follow that path you feel most comfortable with.

#197 bullion.bunny on 11.07.11 at 10:24 pm

http://www.howscrewedareyou.ca

Hey write about this!

#198 Westernman on 11.07.11 at 10:29 pm

Marc L,
No, Westernman is not Smokingman you Bi-Polar twit.
Westernman is your worst nightmare – a teller of truth
and a keen judge of character… or in your case a regretable LACK of character.

#199 Roland on 11.07.11 at 10:37 pm

@134

Where on Earth did you possibly get the notion that the private sector isn’t infected with the disease of credentialism?

Most of the stupid MBA types work in the private sector–i.e. the idiots who do nothing all day except write up their absurd “Mission Statements,” and waste the productive employees’ time.

Credentialism isn’t a question of public or private. Our whole damned society has got the problem.

#200 disciple on 11.08.11 at 12:18 am

#184 Kurt… where do I start? You’re all over the map, serving up tidbits of truth while denying the obvious. Only a handful of PLC’s needed to be physically sabotaged, the ones responsible for cooling. Internet not needed. The US Airforce was caught lying about inserting code in order to clean up the virus (which was found, btw). Japan threatened to help Iran with their nuclear processing, and the US needed a QE3 substitute – voila – Japan became an ATM. Coincidence? It’s time for you to see the forest and not just the trees.

Chomsky is a chump. He still denies the truth of 9/11, only coming so far as saying that “elements” of domestic cooperation “may” have existed. Yeah, thanks Chomsky, it’s obvious who pays your bills. Kurt, do you believe that elitist control is a natural progression of systems? Please clarify.

#201 meslippery on 11.08.11 at 1:43 am

Don’t hate me because I am rich, beautiful and smart. Oh, toned too. I actually won the Ontario Science Award. Presented by William G. Davis.

Now, I run a few homes for unwed mothers and my specialty, single, unwed fathers. I won’t be lonely at Christmas will you. A shitty marriage doesn’t count.

I am curious about your tag name. Disciple of what?

Who in there right mind could hate you?
Sorry if I creep you out.I will leave well enough alone.
Not Disciple
meslippery

#202 Regan on 11.08.11 at 8:23 am

I just have to comment on the racism and blaming some people express on this blog. I grew up in Vancouver amid complaints of ‘all these wealthy immigrants driving up prices’ and then moved to Toronto to hear complaints about ‘all these poor immigrants draining our welfare system’ and then went to university where ‘all these middle-class immigrants study so hard to get good grades and will take our jobs.’ Um, you can’t blame immigrants for EVERY problem you face in your life. Your just blaming someone so you feel superior.
I do think that immigration policy could be re-wired to build intentional, stable communities (i.e. importing only women to work as nannies creates a community of female-led, low-income, fractured households and recruiting foreign doctors to work as taxi drivers is just a cruel brain-drain on their country of origin) but seriously, since it has invariably been white people who seem to do the complaining about ‘these immigrants’ may I remind you that your folks arrived here at some point too, and now – we are all here together and have to respect each other as one community.

#203 disciple on 11.08.11 at 10:37 am

#202 Regan… great points. There are a couple of things you should also keep in mind when facing these pressures in everyday life.

The State has a vested interest in maintaining a perceived separation along any lines of difference within the population it rules. Divide and conquer is the bread and butter for elitist control. The last thing the STATE wants is an inclusive society, because then it will become clear to those the STATE mentally manipulates is that the function of the STATE is irrelevant, as full cooperation between individuals will be all that is necessary for the transport of goods and materials to everyone. The LAW society would be defunct, and with it, 95% of the stupid laws it “upholds”, which are easily demonstrable to be contrary to progress.

Your real rulers need to perpetuate the myth of superiority versus inferiority. All wars are based on this myth, all of them. It is never differences in opinion, or disputes over land or oil, or gold, or water. All of these can be negotiated and exchanged for fairly. It is always this myth of superiority which lies hidden at the heart of all social problems.

There are elements within our stratified society that have their meat hooks in the immigration system. I can tell you in what parts of Toronto all the nannies roam. I can tell you the vast majority of the ethnic origin of who employs these nannies and where they come from, and for whom this loophole in the immigration laws were written for. I can tell you that Mr. Kenney has Jesuit tutelage and like a typical willing and obedient foot soldier for his masters, he has contradicted himself many times in public, hoping that nobody would notice, and that it will probably prove hypocritical for him to criticize same-sex marriage, if you know what I mean.

#204 disciple on 11.08.11 at 12:07 pm

The following on “Diesel Therapy” is heavily censored on the net, but brought to you by disciple:

The idea of political prisoners and the abuse they suffer at the hands of their government is not a new one to the majority of the American public. When the concept is presented, it usually brings forth visions of the old Soviet gulags or the horrors of Southeast Asia. The possibility that America would have such a thing as a “political prisoner” within its own borders would be, to the majority of this nation’s citizens, considered the substance of right wing, militia or separatist paranoia.

A former twelve-term Republican congressman from Idaho, however, has different ideas as to where one could find this scenario being played out. Former GOP Congressman, George Hansen, has been referred to on as many as 2,500 talk-radio stations across the country as “America’s most famous political prisoner”, according to the “U.S. Citizens Human Rights Commission.”

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/dieseltherapy.shtml

#205 Marc L on 11.08.11 at 3:24 pm

#198 Westernman on 11.07.11 at 10:29 pm

Marc L,
No, Westernman is not Smokingman you Bi-Polar twit.
Westernman is your worst nightmare – a teller of truth
and a keen judge of character… or in your case a regretable LACK of character.

_______________

More anger, hostility, self-centered rage.
Again signs of alcoholism and/or destructive narcissism.
How can you let yourself get so emotional and out of control over a complete stranger on a blog.

You need help. You started this…