Marketing


 

Jie is Chinese. But not the HAM kind. He immigrated to Canada with his wife, chose Vancouver, and has done okay. They make double the average income but can’t afford a house. Of course. Who can? Today at least 12 families would have to get together and donate their entire year’s pre-tax earnings just to buy one average, crappy, abode.

“You must feel like a lone ranger sometimes,” he writes me. “I know I do.  Even this morning on CKNW news, when the BMO’s prediction about housing price drop was brought up, they were still saying that first time home buying was still affordable due to low interest rate!!!  What affordability???  Sure, it is affordable if one is reckless; but recklessness has been awarded and prudence has been punished; there is recklessness all around me.”

Recklessness. Damn fine word, Jie. It describes our world – and not just the cowboy capitalism now etched on the streets of Vancouver.

Governments have been reckless, spending obscene amounts try to maintain normalcy. Now we have less-than-normal, debt crises and the surety of higher taxes. Lenders have been reckless. Is there a 40-year-old you know who isn’t in hock? Money’s been cheap and loose, with lending standards at ankle levels. Borrowers and buyers have been reckless, spending without  discipline. It will make the trip back down even more dramatic. The HAM Chinese have been reckless, extreme-buying on whim, gossip and the wisdom of a crowd.

Says Jie: “As for the HAM, I am afraid of it, at least for the near term.  The herd mentality in Chinese culture is far more rampant than in Canadian culture because the phrase “critical thinking” is very difficult to find in the Chinese vocabulary if it exists at all.  The point?  There are 1.3 billion lemmings in China.  I want to see control in place for foreign real estate ownership but that’s not likely to happen.  In the meantime, the Canadian lemmings are anxiously but nonetheless eagerly joining the march to destruction, supported by our very own government.”

But reckless doesn’t stop there. Its unstable and toxic zenith lives in those who exploit the confusion and emotion of the times. The pumpers and humpers and spinners of the real estate industry, supported by media sycophants, have walked tens of thousands of buyers into assets that could eat them alive. Anyone buying a house at market levels in 2011 is taking on massive risk. And those who say, ‘buy now or buy never’ are sleazy merchants of both greed and fear.

Slithering to the oily top is Cam Good, the Vancouver-Toronto marketer who’s making a career out of fostering fear and loathing when it comes to the Chinese. He’s the king of hyperbole and stunts, and his comments in the vid posted below – that people in Vancouver “maybe should live somewhere else” if they don’t like what HAM is doing – have touched a collective nerve.

“There will be destruction one day; I just don’t know who will be destroyed,” says Jie.  “Would it be the reckless people (the ones riding the “Vancouver buck”) or would it be us (the ones with savings)?  I feel we are in the minority here and the minority usually gets screwed in a democracy (runaway inflation would eat up our savings).  What can we do to protect ourselves?

“This could be the darkest hour before the sunrise; and man, is it ever dark right here in the lower mainland!  Please keep up your voice of sanity and prudence.  From time to time, I reach out for your voice for moral support in this dark hour.”

For some time on this blog I’ve argued the greatest threat to the ability of people to own houses is not horny Mainland Chinese with bags of money (they tear up some neighbourhoods), but the sleazeball marketers who amplify the Asian Invasion, using it to goad everyone else into paying more everywhere. The result has been million-dollar shacks, a mass bubble mentality, rampant speculation, and the delusional conviction the only thing holding back prices is the sky.

Jie, you know it. This will not end well.

But end it will. Be patient and pure.

Soon Cam Good will be back on TV. At 2 am selling Furminators.

192 comments ↓

#1 McSteve on 06.08.11 at 9:10 pm

China has it’s own real estate bubble. What happens to VanCity once they figure this out?

#2 spud on 06.08.11 at 9:21 pm

first

#3 phinny on 06.08.11 at 9:23 pm

I like Jie.

He didn’t write some slimy email bragging about how much money he’s making.

He’ll be alright. Hardworking immigrant- sheesh, I’d ship a helluva-lot of born-in-Canada types Eastward for more guys like that.

#4 steve p on 06.08.11 at 9:31 pm

There will be destruction one day; I just don’t know who will be destroyed,” says Jie. “Would it be the reckless people (the ones riding the “Vancouver buck”) or would it be us (the ones with savings)? I feel we are in the minority here and the minority usually gets screwed in a democracy (runaway inflation would eat up our savings). What can we do to protect ourselves?

this is not inflation you have just described above it is deflation
if you have cash you will be king

#5 Heart of the World on 06.08.11 at 9:31 pm

I was talking to a friend today, after a six months hiatus, and heard a great, amazing and very heart warming story.

I was told that a woman I know who managed a film industry prop house in Vancouver had put her house on the market at 900 large. The house was really nothing much — near the Metrotown Mall in Burnaby, recently repainted but that was about it; a block away from a gas station in a mish mash neighbourhood… the heart warming part of this is that this woman is really lovely as a person, and as I remember her from various business dealings, I can tell you that her income was nothing much, and her work was hard, unrewarding, and she did it very, very well, with no complaints.

Anyway, there was a bidding war on her humble abode, and she and hubby came out of the affray with $1.5 mill. — a true lottery win! It is a good thing when those who work hard, and are kind and helpful to others receive this kind of windfall.

So while the economy at large will lose when prices revert to the mean, there have been, here and there, some good results for deserving people.

#6 Violet on 06.08.11 at 9:32 pm

Cam Good is HOT! Those cheekbones, that steely glint, that determined jaw, that athletic body… Who WOULDN’T want to buy a house from him?! *swoon*

#7 Jim on 06.08.11 at 9:37 pm

Nice. But honestly if prices continue to rise, Vancouver will have no economy,as no “workers” will be able to (or want to) live here.
But they won’t continue to rise.

#8 Bottoms_Up on 06.08.11 at 9:37 pm

Speaking of recklessness, does anyone have insight to how the 0/40’s (from 2006) mortgage renewals are going?

And speaking of minorities getting screwed in a democracy, John Stewart Mill (a 19th century Brit) believed that the will (read: lemming mentality) of the majority could be a very dangerous thing.

And Garth, now that we’re at the precipice of housing valuation in Canada, I think your work here is only beginning. Your dogs (and puppies) will need your guidance through the crash/melt.

#9 sluggo on 06.08.11 at 9:43 pm

Cam bad.

#10 Mr. Lee on 06.08.11 at 9:46 pm

Reason is an element that is failing in society. A few gererations ago, you were valued by what you owned. Now your value is determined by what you owe. Nevertheless, history teaches us that there is never somthing for nothing. Loose monitary policy leads inevitably to indulgance and over spending, this leads to inflation and market correcitions. But how can one correct a market this is so badly skewd, we will shortly find out.

#11 b on 06.08.11 at 9:48 pm

there is a house on melton 2 bedroom with some upgrades they want 700,000 in mississauga, are we turning into vancouver central

#12 wes_coast on 06.08.11 at 9:54 pm

I wonder when society will wake up to the power of marketing? We have no one to blame but ourselves and when we realize – we are again free to make rational decisions.

Its long but worth a watch:

http://www.storyofstuff.com

#13 Victoria on 06.08.11 at 10:05 pm

What do these HAMS do with the homes they buy. They apparently don’t live in them. Do they just keep them empty? Rent them out?

Are they contributing to Canadian society in any way (other than making a few rich). Do they start companies that hire Canadians, do they give their millions to Canadian charities, universities? Do they invest in Canada economically and culturally?

Do they know Canada? Do they even like the place?

Just asking?

#14 Victoria on 06.08.11 at 10:14 pm

I remember in the 90s when the Brits were buying up France – South of the Frace particularly. The British Pound was very very strong and people’s dreams were coming true.

People didn’t buy as investments they bought because the actually wanted to live in France or spend most of their time there. They loved the culture, food, wine etc. I knew many people that did that and they are still there. It was a chance to have a piece of France and enjoy the country.

#15 Jsan on 06.08.11 at 10:19 pm

I get the impression that most people on here do nothing more than bitch and complain on this board. How many of you have actually contacted Flaherty, Harper or any other Politician to complain about the eroding real estate affordability and the casino atmosphere that it has become?

Put your money where your mouth is, contact your politicians and voice your concerns. For issues regarding unfair or biased broadcasts, click on the link I have pasted below. It is a complaint link to the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council.

I submitted a complaint regarding GlobalTV News here in Edmonton and how they conveniently seem to be present at new Condo launches. They spin what looks suspiciously like an advertisement into a “News” piece. The “News” piece usually shows very excited buyers talking about the wonderful features that the Condo complex has…..sort of like what a commercial would show.

I got a response from the regional Director of Global about how Global upholds the highest standards of journalism integrity….yada, yada, yada. Why is it that GlobalTV is almost exclusively singled out as the station that broadcasts and gives air time to all of the real estate pumpers?

Here is the link, drop a complaint, it will not go farther than a few letters but at least if the CBSC gets inundated with complaints maybe Global will start giving some more balanced reports instead of the seemingly one sided reporting that they continually do.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G8.htm

.

#16 Debtisforever on 06.08.11 at 10:21 pm

For the first time last night I watched “Property Guys”. It featured a newlywed couple who wanted to upgrade from their current townhouse. “Too small for entertaining” they said. So the property guys showed them a couple houses for sale. Their budget was $750k (yikes!) and yet this would only buy them a fixer-upper requiring $50k in renos. In the end, they got their dream house with open concept so they could “entertain friends” the woman kept harping on about.
I would be more entertained by seeing their financial situation. I can’t believe that in Toronto $750k only buys you a fixer upper. And this is seen as “normal.” The Americans must be laughing their a**es off at us (yes I know they are, I know some of them and they’re wondering how we could be so dumb).

#17 LJ on 06.08.11 at 10:26 pm

“Is there a 40-year-old you know who isn’t in hock?”

Yep, couple of friends and yours truly are doing fine without any debt hangover – thank you very much. However, we are “oddballs” so don’t look for us at the next open house.

For your reading pleasure:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-death-debt

#18 Jsan on 06.08.11 at 10:38 pm

I can remember back when I was a kid about 25 years ago. My aunt and Uncle were so mad because overseas investors (I won’t mention the nationality but some things never change) were buying up entire blocks in Richmond to cut in half and develop. All of the houses in my Aunt and Uncle’s neighborhood had gorgeous, huge lots. Well, a developer came in, offered everyone money they could not refuse than cut all of the lots in half and added an entire new neighborhood in a neighborhood.

Absolutely disgusting how these gorgeous lots were turned into tiny postage sized lots with elbow to elbow houses. That’s what money and greed does. The Real Estate mania back than eventually came to a grinding halt as this one will also eventually meet it’s end.

#19 randman on 06.08.11 at 10:38 pm

Re:Ireland housing bust

“reland’s boom and bust, which led to an 85 billion-euro ($125 billion) international bailout last year, was driven by the real estate market. Property prices quadrupled in the 10 years through 2007. Since then, home values have fallen 40 percent, figures released yesterday showed. Mortgage lending has dropped about 95 percent from the market’s peak.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0…-collapse.html

#20 Mr Buyer on 06.08.11 at 10:40 pm

Here is a thought. It is a given that the tax payer will have to foot the bill for this bubble. I am guessing that through a relatively straight forward feat of data mining we could identify those that profited from this bubble and give them a little extra taxing (read alot). This should be done publicly and with great fan fare. Should help to minimize the repackaging and trundling out of bubble mechanics 50 years from now. Like I said, a few simple laws here and there, no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

#21 randman on 06.08.11 at 10:41 pm

“Garth is HOT! Those cheekbones, that steely glint, that determined jaw, that athletic body… Who WOULDN’T want to sell a house for him?! *swoon*”

There..fixed it for ya!!!

#22 kilby on 06.08.11 at 10:41 pm

http://www.realestatevancouver2010.com/homes/vancouver-east-knight/V889135/

Couldn’t resist this “livable” 2 bedrooms, 1 bath

#23 Sm on 06.08.11 at 10:41 pm

I can still remember Zafirovski’s last words before Nortel went down when he was asked what he had to say about Nortel’s low stock price…and his response was “it’s a good time to buy!”
can’t wait for this mania to end..

#24 Toon Town Boomer on 06.08.11 at 10:44 pm

“This could be the darkest hour before the sunrise; and man, is it ever dark right here in the lower mainland! Please keep up your voice of sanity and prudence. From time to time, I reach out for your voice for moral support in this dark hour.”

I’m with Jie, thanks Garth for your voice & support.

#25 Been There, Done That on 06.08.11 at 10:44 pm

Off topic, but “Get A BRAIN! MORANS” is a classic pro-Iraq war protest photo from 2003. I laugh every time I see it. Great choice!

#26 HouseBuster on 06.08.11 at 10:46 pm

Let’s face it. Housing is about to implode in Canada.

There is no other outcome.

#27 Axehead on 06.08.11 at 10:47 pm

So 1st the US runs out of money, then they print more money to solve that problem and call it QE1/QE2/bride of QE/Son of QE/etc. , then they hand over all that money to the Chinese cause the US doesn’t make any stuff anymore but continues to buy more and more of the stuff that China makes, then the Chinese takes all that money and spends in on Vancouver and Toronto real estate well cause it’s real and they get an estate and that paper US money is worth less and less. I know this is going to end very badly, I just don’t know how or when.

#28 Lost the taste for RE on 06.08.11 at 10:52 pm

Some words for Jie, “I like you. I really like you.” Thanks for writing. I don’t feel so alone now, knowing that there’s someone else in this crazy city who’s thinking the same thoughts I am.

I know we’re all going to suffer for this. But like you, I wonder who will suffer most – the reckless or the prudent. We all realize it won’t end well. They don’t call greed one of the “seven deadly sins” for nothing.

Some days it’s a challenge to hang onto your ethics and not succumb to envy for those who have so much more. (But do they “have” more, or just “owe” so much more?)

#29 Gandalf on 06.08.11 at 10:55 pm

Ok, after a couple of years of reading this stuff, I have to jump into the fray. I’m in the investment business and manage a lot of money for private individuals. In fact I’ve been in the business for almost 25 years and have to say that the irrational exuberance towards Vancouver real estate is on par with the tech bubble in 2000. I have to admit that I shorted the market a little too early back then and got short squeezed out near the top at a loss but ultimately the market collapsed by up to 90% in a lot of stocks.

The psychology, overconfidence and this time it’s different theme in Vancouver is reminiscent of every bubble; be it stocks, art, real estate, memorabilia, etc.

Our family sold a commercial property last June for $2 million, which we’ve owned since 1966 and now I have to write a cheque to those scum bags in Ottawa for $400k for the taxes in which we did all the work and they did f**k all! By the way that works out to just under 5% compounded return from our cost. No risk, but all the reward. But, it was well worth it even after paying the tax because I’ve re-deployed the cash, have control of my capital and no longer have to pay the blood sucking municipal, provincial and federal governments all those f**king taxes that are like blood sucking vampires! By the way, my father was big developer in the late 70’s and got buried in the early 80’s crash, so our family has lived through a real estate collapse first hand and it’s not pretty when you are virtually wiped out.

By the way, my return since last June in a conservative, fixed income weighted portfolio with preferred shares and dividend stocks was about 14%! since I’m in the business, I think I know what I’m doing. No worries Garth, you know what you’re talking about!

What got me going is the crazy stories I hear about. Our friends sold their house near Arbutus in Van for $2.6 mill in one day to a neighbor, no tax, lived their for 5 years, cost base around $1.3m, they close in March and are going to move to Kelowna and buy a brand new waterfront house and put their kids in a caucasian dominant school! Already their kids are practically the only white kids attending! Kudo’s to them for seeing the light and off loading their tear down to some HAM moron!

I could go on, but for now but here’s a pretty good analysis of why sale volumes are down and why prices appear to be up like Garth has been talking about. Until you figure out how to crunch numbers, don’t believe what gets rammed down your throat from self-interested organizations:

http://www.urbanfutures.com/average_prices.html

The guys at http://www.landcor.com are a good independent resource for RE trends in BC. By the way, the guy who owns this company is one of the largest players in rec property in B.C. and he’s pretty much all cash!

#30 AB Bust on 06.08.11 at 10:55 pm

maybe it’s time for a nice HAM tax.

#31 Cato on 06.08.11 at 10:56 pm

Jie is right on all counts.

Here is what chafes me about HAM. I’ve had many close asian friends growing up. Many of their parents fled to Canada with just the clothes on their backs to escape the atrocities of communist regimes. Their ideals on freedom and justice mirror my own.

One of my best profs at university was a wizened old biology professor. He spent his youth at war – first fighting the Japanese and then as an officer fighting the communists. He was probably one of the proudest Canadians I ever met.

At this point in time I doubt any of the above would be allowed in the country, we seem to be more in favour money than political ideals selling tickets to lotusland. Kind of reminds me of the apologists who had no qualms trading with nazis before the war and would be damned if they’d let any dirty refugees into the country. Future generations of Canadians will always hold that group of past Canadians with contempt. Will we be judged any differently?

Canadians need to wake up to how this chinese capital streaming into the country was earned. This isn’t money made by innocent property speculation or entrepreneurs. It was earned by one small group of political and financial elites oppressing & enslaving others by way of an authoritarian regime. The very enslavement previous generations of Canadian gave their lives to protect us against. I’ve encountered enough hardline Chinese to know China is not our friend. The true believers fully expect at some point their children will be going to war with our children. Current relations are just a facade.

We need to cutoff the escape valve for Chinese elite looking to flee the misery they created. Maybe then pressure cooker within the country will build to a boiling point and result in democratic change before its too late.

Cam Good, you’re a traitor.

#32 Harry Cho on 06.08.11 at 10:57 pm

Good video. However, this is not a new phenomenon.

Back in my high school days I had many friends from Japan, Taiwan and India who lived in nice houses all around a posh T.O. neighbourhood.

Of course these houses were fully paid for with just the kids living in them while the parents were back home. After university most of them went back.

I also knew of many others in this situation and this was over 15 years ago, so nothing new under the sun.

When Japan had their real estate/stock bubble, everyone thought they would endlessly buy North American real estate. We all know how that ended.

#33 Gandalf on 06.08.11 at 10:59 pm

Sorry, one typo in my last comment: our friends close their sale in August, not March.

#34 MM on 06.08.11 at 11:06 pm

#18 Jsan

It’s called increasing density. As population in an area increases, so does land value, so it makes sense to put more dwellings on the same area. Who is greedy? The developers, or the original owners who sold?

Density is actually a good thing, it reduces time wasted on commuting, cost, and environmental impact (in particular when supported by public transportation).

#35 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.08.11 at 11:07 pm


Where the man in the pic is holding the “GO” sign, does that indicate he wants to use the john / water closet or whatever it’s called?

“. . . debt crises and the surety of higher taxes.” — That is what the elite want — sheeple paying exorbitantly high taxes for little in return, towns and cities in permanent debt crisis, which ultimately leads either to (a) dumbed-down populations who follow orders without question, or (b) civil revolutions.

Europe and the ME seem to have chosen their route — civil wars, but the play is still in its early stages — a few years to go before it all settles down.
*
#5 Heart of the World — Good story, nice ending. Good for the couple!
*
#161 Prof ANON on 06.08.11 at 6:18 pm — 4:57 clip There does seem to be something beyond the norm going on; another POV.
*
Food Inflation, Shock System, and Major Threat to recovery. Hah! Whut recovery? Let’s call BS on the small talk. JPM wants regs. loosened. Surprised? Yes. They should have thought of this years ago. Pinocchio The Nose Knows.

Fukushima Strontium and Contaminated Cobalt?

China At the same time they are selling US securities, they are buying Japanese. China Building frenzy, and China Energy frenzy. 3:19 clip The Sun this morning (June 7), and Heating Up As this world heats up, so does the central heating system. Read this before, nothing happened. Actions speak louder than words, so let’s see some action! No Border Further proof that NAmerica is flat broke. Neither side can afford border security anymore, so it will be eventually scrapped under the NAU – SPP.

Costs of War Add on Canada’s financial bill, and one gets a more realistic view of how far in the hole we are. Can we blame The Toilet for this? Bilderberg Agenda and Build Your Burger Good old Auntie Beeb (BBC) runs interference for Rompin’ Ronnie McDonalds and the secretive group, of which I am not a member. The lady BBC reporter also said (on live TV) that WTC7 had been destroyed when, in fact, it was still standing in the distance behind her. So much for accurate journalism! India Now the ME riots are underway, other countries come under scrutiny. War #4 Yemen, then Saudi Arabia is next.

Quick thinking in the police state (USA_). Neat idea! ‘Net censorship in the US now.

#36 Lisa on 06.08.11 at 11:14 pm

Making up my own Chinese proverb here:
“When greed and fear grip fool, fool and his money soon parted.”
Or, translated from Chinese to English:
“Scary thrill make man horny”

#37 Thirty something on 06.08.11 at 11:20 pm

I was just on Zillow and didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. So maybe all of us little people (as Cam seems to see us) should all just move to Manhattan.

Think I will tell the in-laws that we are considering a move South if they ask me one more time if we are going to buy.

#38 Fool me once... on 06.08.11 at 11:20 pm

I have been a follower of this blog for years now. GT and some of the other moderates here share the same concerns as I regarding the lack of historical fundamentals to support the current run up in RE, particularly in Vancouver. Having said that, my fear is that we truly are up against a force we have no data on to help us interpret or predict it’s effect. Of course that force is the HAM.

Who knows Garth, maybe Michael Porter should have added another force :)

#39 kc on 06.08.11 at 11:29 pm

27 Axehead on 06.08.11 at 10:47 pm

“I know this is going to end very badly, I just don’t know how or when.”

May I suggest you go to youtube and place into the search “the end of america” and watch the full length show… it will set you back 1 hour and 14 minutes, however, it will make you think…..

#40 wetcoaster on 06.08.11 at 11:32 pm

Cam “Thanks Sucka” Good will be the one who will be moving once a bunch of HAM’s with bad intentions realized they’ve been scammed. I would not mess with any of those dudes, especially when it involves millions. Look what happened to that BRE-X guy in his helicopter. It’s a long way down.

Cam is dumber than a sack of hammers besides being the lowest form of humanity.

#41 Joseph [original] on 06.08.11 at 11:43 pm

I really wish I can agree with you Garth, but the financial fortunes in China are just beginning to emerge, meaning that with the population of China being 1.3 billion, we can easily see an additional one million millionaires in China in the next 5 years time looking to Canada to invest. We are likely simply on the cusp of mainland Chinese rushing to Canada to buy Vancouver real estate; not in the process of looking in the rear view mirror after a crash. The sky is the limit right now for Vancouver. I have said before that we missed the boat on this opportunity to get rich quick in Vancouver real estate. We had a golden goose right here in Canada laying golden eggs for anyone with the gall to have jumped into the market. Instead, we were on this blog arguing over 5% returns on ETFs. Nickels and dimes in the overall scheme of things.

#42 Hoof - Hearted on 06.08.11 at 11:53 pm

#13 Victoria on 06.08.11 at 10:05 pm

What do these HAMS do with the homes they buy. They apparently don’t live in them. Do they just keep them empty? Rent them out?

===================

A lot of them sit empty…Its like gold in a safe..it sits and hopes for appreciation. They contribute nothing…except make developers /realtors rich and fill Gov’t coffers. The average person does not benefit, but is further behind.

#43 Utopia on 06.08.11 at 11:54 pm

#165 Increasing that 1% on 06.08.11 at 6:38 pm

“Re: Utopia, at 83 and 86. If you keep insulting people who are you going to have for your audience?”
==============================

If you cannot appreciate candor and honesty that is not shrouded in the usual waffling and side-stepping B.S. then you know where the page-down button is.

Use it. Then move on.

#44 Hoof - Hearted on 06.08.11 at 11:54 pm

#18 Jsan

lemme guess…was that South of Granville ave….West of Gilbert?

#45 Bobby on 06.08.11 at 11:57 pm

Remember, a realtor’s role is to create hype. They will say whatever it takes to keep people buying. More importantly, if people don’t buy, they don’t get paid.
Just bought a new car the other day. Cheaper to buy new than used. The salesman said it was to increase market share. My guess, it was just to move cars as there was no one in the showroom except me.
It is going to get really ugly out there!

#46 Love This Blog on 06.08.11 at 11:59 pm

#6 Violet,

What’s stopping you?? Could this be further proof of which gender is subscribing heavily to house porn and emotional buying??

Another well-informed buyer hits the market, LOL……….

#47 TaxHaven on 06.08.11 at 11:59 pm

Sorry, I’m with Cam Good on this one. Canadians seem to be becoming more and more parochial and xenophobic as the years go by… They seem to have absolutely *ZERO* world view.

“In any city with international demand, you’re going to have to pay international prices.”

And those unable to do so SHOULD consider other places…anyway, for half the price of a Vancouver box-in-the-sky we got an enormous 3/4-acre+heritage house in a small town…

Either you have private ownership of property, allowing anyone to sell to anyone – or you don’t.

And I’m also with the two girls interviewed, who are buying NOT to flip but to live in an send their kids to school in Canada. They say that Vancouver prices are a bargain compared to those in big Chinese cities.

Take it from them – it’s TRUE!

#48 Hoof - Hearted on 06.09.11 at 12:01 am

More retarded socialists

City’s retrofit program will help environment, save money

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/City+retrofit+program+will+help+environment+save+money/4910508/story.html

If we want to meet Vancouver’s greenhouse gas reduction goals, we have to make significant gains in home energy efficiency improvements. Our estimate is that, by 2013, we will need to be on a trend whereby at least 3,000 homes a year will need an energy retrofit to meet our targets.

But it’s not just about the environment.

Home energy efficiency improvements help homeowners and taxpayers save money on their energy bills. With affordability a major concern in Vancouver, we want to do everything we can to help make life more affordable in Vancouver.

That’s why Vancouver City Hall developed the Home Energy Loan Program (HELP) concept. We worked with our other key partners who share the goal of energy efficiency in the home sector: LiveSmart BC, Natural Resources Canada, BC Hydro, Fortis BC. We also worked with the financial sector, and have Vancity as our partner on the financial side.

====================================

The payback on these retrofits is years into the future, if ever.

Most homeowners move long before this….or assume this makes their home more saleable.

Is a scam….

#49 LS on 06.09.11 at 12:11 am

Anyone recognize this house? It sold a few months back in the Arbutus area, not sure for what, but must be close to $2 million (50 foot lot) and will now rent for $3,800 a month.

Nice home for Kim and family:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/2428432063.html

Approximately 20th and Trafalgar.

Nice return on their investment. BTW, if you ask much more than $3,500 for rent on the West side, you have a hard time getting it. The approximate going rate is $3,300 – $3,500 a month for a decent house.

#50 Pat @ YVR on 06.09.11 at 12:16 am

#13 Victoria

Investor class immigrants are here to take advantage of our generosity and our government is doing nothing to stop this abuse. Canada needs skilled workers who will embrace Canadian values, not investor class immigrants who are here to help themselves. The only reason that the majority of investor class immigrants are able to get into the country in the first place is that they can buy their way in. Most would fail to qualify as skilled immigrants, as they typically lack the skills we need and speak neither official language. The entire program is a mess.

#51 Mr. Reality on 06.09.11 at 12:24 am

Serenity now!

Mr. R.

#52 Derek on 06.09.11 at 12:33 am

#8 Bottoms_Up on 06.08.11 at 9:37 pm

#20 Mr Buyer on 06.08.11 at 10:40 pm

J S Mill was a smart guy. And strangely enough one of his suggestions, the Land Value Tax, can ensure that foreign owners pay taxes as a result of their Canadian real estate purchases without penalising Canadian residents.

The secret is to set up a Federal fund. Fill it with revenue from a property tax on the value of land the house is built upon and pay out the revenue as a dividend to each Canadian resident. Most property owners will receive more than they pay. The only exceptions will be foreign owners who live abroad and those who own really expensive houses. Those who are priced out of housing and currently have to rent will do best of all since they will receive the dividend but won’t have to pay the tax.

#53 J on 06.09.11 at 12:35 am

I wonder what happens 10 years from now in Vancouver! White is going to be minority most likely, chinese will take over housing, jobs, schooling and everything else, probably Jack will be our prime minister and Olivia will be Vancouver mayor!!!

-Yours to Discover

#54 totalchaos on 06.09.11 at 12:50 am

I was getting worried, but then I read this in my local rag. Phew, it’s different here.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/greater_vancouver/newwestminsternewsleader/news/123382138.html

#55 Dark Sad Monster Bunny on 06.09.11 at 12:54 am

18 Jsan – its called “infill” and is the big thing within many local governments, as the alternative is suburban
sprawl. It has advantages and disadvantages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infill

#56 Alex on 06.09.11 at 1:03 am

Jsan: Cool that you filed the CRTC/CSBC complaint. After the usual Global BS response letter, did you take it further – to the CBSC “panel”? That’s what I’ve done with my multiple complaints.

And yes, you’re right. More of us should do the same. It really doesn’t take very long and it forces Global to take time out of their busy real estate industry-funded day to answer our very legitimate concerns. And who knows – one day the CSBC might just order Global to change it’s cruelly deceptive tune.

#57 Thetruth on 06.09.11 at 1:23 am

Census 2011 is reckless…Consider this:

In Surrey BC, there exists approximately 40,000+ basement suites (some houses have 3). 1 census form is being delivered to each house (one per address). The owners fill this out and do not list the occupants in their ‘illegal’ basement suites for fear of red flagging these suites.

I decided to call the Census people on this and they said that they could only accept one form per address. Basement suites could not send a separate form as it would overide the first one sent by the owner and would not be accepted by their computer system. I pointed out that owners may not list the occupants in their suites for fear of getting caught having illegal suites. The Census people agreed on this and there was nothing they could do.

The Result: Population of Cities with illegal suites will be vastly undereported. Especially suburbs of Vancouver and Toronto! Surrey may be underestimated by up to 100,000 people!

Population growth via immigration is rampant and my 550,000+ per year number stands as being a major factor driving up home prices.

#58 old gringo on 06.09.11 at 1:28 am

Could Cam Good be the forgotten son of Gordon Gekko?
The old “greed is good” bulls%$$t.
When this is over the best jobs will be in family counciling, debt management,repossessing cars etc.
“Ugly is as ugly does” or “you can’t fix stupid”…. one of these has to fit this line of thinking you can manage these debt loads forever.

#59 gpc on 06.09.11 at 1:34 am

Two of my young co-workers bought houses during at the point. I said “Wow how did you afford it?” (Both were part-time workers at the firm)

They said : : “Bank of Granpa”.

#60 Phil on 06.09.11 at 1:59 am

@13 – Where do they live? Ummm, try Vancouver, Richmond and Burnaby. There are zero non asians here. It is a foreign city. We literally sold our city. Embarrassing.

#61 Jimbo on 06.09.11 at 2:07 am

#5 Heart of the World…

“Anyway, there was a bidding war on her humble abode, and she and hubby came out of the affray with $1.5 mill. — a true lottery win! It is a good thing when those who work hard, and are kind and helpful to others receive this kind of windfall.”

Your thinking is so distorted! I know several Vancouverites who think this manic house market is just great because their houses have appreciated so much and, when they cash out, they’ll be “rich”. They have blinders on and are only looking out in the short term.

Do you not understand that our children and grandchildren will be paying a HUGE price? We’ve sold out our children’s futures. Can they attend the best schools? Not easily when they are in competition with wealthy ESL non-residents (who have the luxury of not having to split their time between school and work to pay their way through school). Can they afford a house? No. Can they afford to get married and have kids? No. Can they compete with offshore riches? No way. Can they dream big here in Canada? No.

So your friend can roll in her $1.5M in cash the same way the First Nations probably rolled around happily in the pile of beads used to buy Manhattan Island. We’ve sealed the fate of our kids. Instead of passing the homes, businesses, communities, and culture down to Canadian kids, we’ve sold off the golden goose and have left nothing for them. See many First Nations communities thriving in Manhattan? Nope, they’re extinct there.

Way to go, Canada. My father didn’t serve as a pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force in WW2 so that we could give our country away at the expense of our kids. We are TOO POLITICALLY CORRECT in this country. Sovereign nations have the RIGHT to put the best interest of their citizens first… just ask Australia and other countries that restrict foreign ownership.

The federal government should be throwing up barriers for offshore real estate purchases immediately to stop this cultural carnage. Immediately. 1.4 billion Chinese. 30 million Canadians. Our kids haven’t got a hope unless the federal government protects them.

And don’t pull the “racist” card. It has nothing to do with skin color. What is being done in Vancouver is ever bit as wrong as what Europeans did to the First Nations 100+ years ago, when they took over with their dominant wealth and culture. So why was it wrong then and right today? You can’t have it both ways.

#62 Live from the EU on 06.09.11 at 2:56 am

““There will be destruction one day; I just don’t know who will be destroyed,” says Jie. “Would it be the reckless people (the ones riding the “Vancouver buck”) or would it be us (the ones with savings)? I feel we are in the minority here and the minority usually gets screwed in a democracy (runaway inflation would eat up our savings). What can we do to protect ourselves?”

Jie, here in the EU you can get a preview of what MAY come to Canada with foreign investors. Look at Spain, France, Ireland and Portugal. LOADS of UK money flowing into their RE holdings, 2 years ago it crashed HARD and values are still down 40-60%.

Who was hurt? The foreign investors mostly as they couldn’t sell, couldn’t cover the mortgages and had no loyality to stay in a foreign country to “wait it out”.

The Chinese would be in the same boat and who could blame them for wanting to dump Canadian (foreign) RE when it too crashes in value? A small % of Chinese out first will win, the majority will lose.

#63 Goldilocks on 06.09.11 at 3:05 am

Jsan,
I don’t know where to start.
The evil developer and greedy property owners traded money for property – a mutually beneficial, un-coerced transaction.
The evil developer then created more housing, in a metro area where you Vancouverinians are always whining about lack of housing.
There is no constitutional guarantee of lot sizes; if you were a deer or a bear, I might take seriously your whine about lot sizes, but then you’d have to drop your hypocrisy and admit that the original development is no less intrusive than the new development.
There’s an under-current of Marxism to many comments at the best of times around here, with the rage over realtors’ incomes and greedy sellers and greedy realtors and evil developers, so to be fair you fit right in.

#64 Ken5421 on 06.09.11 at 5:06 am

According to official statistcs the US Federal reserve is leveraged 102 – 1.

PBOC (People Bank of China) is Leveraged 1200 – 1

Figures quoted in a recent interview by top ecomomist.

check out interview at: http://www.goldmoney.com/video/grant-interview.html

cheers

ken

#65 jane54 on 06.09.11 at 5:56 am

What I don’t understand is why the govt doesn’t simply add a whopping capital gains tax to housing profits made by non-residents. 75% would do the job.

It would stop this madness in its tracks and Canadians would be able to afford to live in their own neighbourhoods again.

This madness of outsiders bidding up local RE will end with empty schools and closed shops as more and more of the population do not actually live in the town. Plus scary social problems.

#66 David B on 06.09.11 at 6:02 am

Front page news WSJ

BY BOB DAVIS
BEIJING—After years of housing prices gone wild, China’s property bubble is starting to deflate.

Residential prices are heading downward in some major cities, damping some undesired real-estate speculation but raising the prospect that the Chinese economy may slow more rapidly than anticipated with profound consequences for global growth.

========================

BUY IT IS DIFFERENT IN CANADA!

Run out and buy buy buy it’s all about location, location, location …. Canada Canada Canada!

Harper’s in and flying first class to hockey games coast to coast! … he showing the world money is no object and voters love him and his family so why not buy two Condo’s or SFH’s and let a greater fool pay for your first one?
==============

OMG …… thin ice or what?

#67 BrianT on 06.09.11 at 6:11 am

#46Jimbo-Hate the game not the player. They saw their shot and they took it. The guv doesn’t answer to any of us.

#68 Pat on 06.09.11 at 6:52 am

@ #61 Jimbo,

Get a life.

#69 Steven Rowlandson on 06.09.11 at 6:58 am

Garth probably for a little while chinese investment in a few homes here and there might be harmless except of course for the fact that it supports high prices to the detriment of poor canadians. What happens when the amount invested and property purchased becomes so great that the chinese think they need the PLA to defend it? Also are these property buyers renouncing their chinese citizenship and becoming canadians or are they colonizing canada as foriegn nationals creating a economic beachhead in canada just like what happened to India at the hands of the British East India Company? Buying stocks and bonds is a lot less personal a commitment than buying real estate. If foriegners do it enmass sooner or later they will organise politically to defend what they think is theirs.
Rules are needed.
No investment or property ownership with out citizenship!
No dual citizenship.
No placing the interests of other countries ahead of that of Canada.
No exceptions allowed.

Imagine if the USA treated Canadians in that fashion. — Garth

#70 zombiedelight on 06.09.11 at 7:00 am

There was someone a couple weeks ago posting about how happy he was to have a double dip entry point in the stock market…

I’m just wondering how he likes the 5th down entry point, enjoying??? :)

A correction was overdue, and is welcome. — Garth

#71 bigrider on 06.09.11 at 7:12 am

#29 Gandalf.

I want to thank you for your perspective and honesty regarding commercial real estate experience. In fact, I wish you could meet some of the people around me (mostly Italian) who think it to be the holy grail of investing. They too do ‘back of the envelope’ calculations but repeatedly come to the wrong results, over estimating the returns. Frustrating to me to say the least.

I would like to confirm that a 14% rate of return would be about correct(my experience) for a diversified portfolio of financial assets held past year, since June 2010.

#72 TurnerNation on 06.09.11 at 7:17 am

Is Bandit the spokes-dog for Furminators?

Bandit loved the product so much, he bought the company. Mr. Good starts his new duties July 11th. — Garth

#73 robert james on 06.09.11 at 7:33 am

Just have to love that HAM in Vancouver..It is so nice that Canada welcomes people like this to Canada as long as they have money.. DISGUSTIG !!!!!!http://www.vancouversun.com/news/East+Vancouver+couple+accused+domestic+slavery/4913604/story.html

I can find no evidence the couple in question are not Canadian citizens, or were not born here. If you have some, then proffer it. — Garth

#74 fancy_pants on 06.09.11 at 7:39 am

recklessness has been awarded and prudence has been punished

Etch that in a stone and plop it on parliament hill.
“We reward recklessness and punish prudence”, signed MC and JF.

#75 Alex on 06.09.11 at 7:43 am

Fish rottens from head. If F,C and H think they can transfer money from taxpayers to banks through CMHC right before our eyes and don’t get punished for that, then what do they think young people would learn out of it? Its OK to print money and price it lower then savings of pensioners, forcing those who has ‘real’ money to look for safe “Investment” . It is OK to beat people on street while politicians have their lunch. It is OK to invade another Country and then name highway as a highway of Heroes. All those political leaders are there for themselves and their families, not for a country.
You Garth don’t even say it as it is, you call it recklessness instead of what it really is . They are criminals and should be in court proving that all what they did was beneficial for country. Why don’t anyone on national TV is asking question why our beloved politicians allowed taxpayer’s money as downpayments to those who has no money?

#76 Uki_7 on 06.09.11 at 7:50 am

She wants to send her children to Canada to high school.
Guess who is going to pay …

#77 Love This Blog on 06.09.11 at 7:51 am

#67 Brian, I disagree. Jimbo has it right. Time to start putting Canadians first, not last.

#78 mississaugaboy on 06.09.11 at 7:54 am

#46Jimbo-karma?

#79 Kevin on 06.09.11 at 7:59 am

@Jsan:

“Absolutely disgusting how these gorgeous lots were turned into tiny postage sized lots with elbow to elbow houses”

We can’t all live on big, 2-acre lots. It’s a very inefficient way to design a community. Everything is too far away to walk/bike, and it takes forever to get anywhere (burns gas and creates a lot of carbon emissions).

I actually like being closer to my neighbors. I see them on their porch bar-b-queing, I run into them at the mailbox or coming home from work. I think it makes for a tighter-knit community.

#80 maxx on 06.09.11 at 8:04 am

#66- David B

“Harper’s in and flying first class to hockey games coast to coast! … he showing the world money is no object…..”

You’d think that at $10,000.00 per hour on our tax nickel to fly a Challenger to a hockey game (arriving on time, as opposed to TOO LATE at a major flood disaster) he’d have rallied the troops and gotten his command performance.

#81 Jon B on 06.09.11 at 8:04 am

Great post. The topic of anger among locals in the Vancouer area not being able to afford a home is very real.

#82 Junius on 06.09.11 at 8:05 am

What continues to baffle me is why there appears to be so many people who tacitly think the ever increasing prices in Vancouver are a good thing.

I get the hookers in bad suits like Cam Good. They are making a buck and are dumber than stumps to begin with. I guess I understand a few who think they can cash out and win the Real Estate lottery. However for the vast majority of Vancouverites how does this do anything but harm the city in the long term?

First of all, the assumption that attracting people with money to live in your city is inherently good under any circumstances is clearly false. There is no innovation or real economic growth in Monaco or other resort living destinations so frequently cited by the “world class” crowd. There is no evidence is leads to a better quality of life or a stronger economy. I see the problem in Vancouver everyday where the cost of living continues to rise making the city unattractive to new businesses and even many established companies. What Cam Good does not get is that Vancouver is far from World Class as an economy. The high prices of high prices long term will be a hollowed out economic base.

Secondly, it is clearly bad for a sense of community. Traditionally immigrants have worked hard to add to the local economy and to blend in. We have a mosaic effect as opposed to a the current gated effect of these economic immigrants. We have clearly seen a fragmentation in the Vancouver community that has lead to anxiety, fear, envy, racism and anti-social behaviour. This will only get worse as time goes on.

The sad reality is that our politicians are both stupid and controlled by those who stand to make a quick buck from this up until it bursts. How short cited.

#83 PEI Red on 06.09.11 at 8:05 am

#20 Mr Buyer

So I should be taxed for making money on the Real Estate insanity because I was smart enough to get out before the collapse? Or are you talking the high profile RE Agents, marketing “fluffers” and CMHC, Genworth etc? Sorry, Mate, can’t agree with you that I should have to pay more taxes because I got out when the going was still good.

#84 Junius on 06.09.11 at 8:13 am

#41 Jospeh [original],

Once again you fail to properly recognize the real economic realities of China. It is caught in its own property bubble of epic proportions. Once it bursts – and it is doing that now – prices in Vancouver will look ridiculous in comparison.

There is also a very real possibility that the current flood of HAM is a temporary phenomenon as people rush to get money out of China before the gov’t tightens the screws on them. The flood of money will tighten up very quickly in the coming months.

Then what? Exactly.

#85 Junius on 06.09.11 at 8:24 am

#57 thetruth,

Are you saying there are 100,000 more people in Surrey than the stated population of just over 400,000? Living in basements? Where do you get this nonsense from?

Most people immigrating to Canada do not have enough money to afford houses in Vancouver or Toronto. They are moving from poorer countries. We can build more than enough homes to accommodate this group.

What we are seeing is a very small group that is being represented as a large, unending group that is driving up prices through fear and greed. in other words, the usual.

#86 BrianT on 06.09.11 at 8:34 am

#77Love-I agree with your sentiment but at a certain point you have to accept the reality of the situation. The North American economy is a Ponzi scheme. Imagine if Vancouver and Toronto RE had crashed hard like e.g. Miami and SF.-the banks would be in trouble, the whole economy would be in big trouble. IMHO most people do not understand what a big mess has been created-Chris Martenson summarizes this-the mess can not be fixed easily by lowering Vancouver RE prices-that is going to bring all sorts of other grief. This is 2011 not 1971-we are not returning to a land of highly paid middle class workers (except for guv jobs). The fake Ponzi is the only thing holding the whole artifice together (which is why Carney is getting good press). When this thing blows the entire Cdn economy will be in big trouble and that guy will be long gone, having done his job.

An extreme view I do not support. Our consumer society has indebted itself, for sure, and those who had an appetite for granite, SS and hi def will see their living standard drop. But the economy is not a Ponzi and there is no substantial crisis lurking, even if housing corrects far more than I have forecast. You have no evidence to the contrary, I trust? — Garth

#87 Mikey the Realtor on 06.09.11 at 8:35 am

#15 Jsan on 06.08.11 at 10:19 pm
“How many of you have actually contacted Flaherty, Harper”

Very good point, I have contacted both of these men along with others and the CRTC; and will continue to do so on different issues. Complaining about issues on blogs and newspaper comment sections are not worth the time you spend typing them. Get to the core of it; send the message to the policy makers. Most people are too scared to do anything, especially in this country. They are content with the status quo and feeling all warm and fuzzy inside, fear and anxiety keeps them in check and quiet.

#88 jas on 06.09.11 at 8:35 am

#13 Victoria
you had your answer at #50 Pat @ YVR
I just want to confirm that to be the case.

I would like to add that do not expect the govt. to do anything….
why? Because they are not there in Ottawa to take care of this country, but their own.
CITIZENS OF CANADA…WAKE UP AND TAKE CHARGE OF YOUR COUNTRY.

#89 Utopia on 06.09.11 at 8:46 am

#165 Increasing that 1% on 06.08.11 at 6:38 pm

Just to follow up on your complaint against me from yesterday Mr. 1% regarding my comments directed to Kimberly who asked Garth for advice about upsizing to better digs during a housing bubble…….

Seriously! I don’t think it was unreasonable of me to be very blunt with that gal about the risks of engaging further in the Vancouver madness. If she needs to have her feelings hurt to learn a lesson, then so be it. I do not have any regrets about my comments. None.

There is a popular delusion that seems to have gripped the minds of people in that city. I am frankly astonished they cannot see it. The evidence of a bubble is now overwhelming. Even the banks now warn of a MAJOR correction.

As does the IMF, our very own Mark Carney, the OECD, the Fraser Institute, the Vanier Institute, the Certified General Accountants Association of Canada, our very own Garth Turner who was first to sound the alarms, a near consensus of the business community and even the folks at BNN who were almost the last to get on board. Need I even mention that the majority of our responsible media have picked up on the story and broadcast warnings? That virtually every economics blog out there offers dire warnings? That even the storied Wall Street Journal has commented on the insanity?

What more evidence does Kimberly need? Bloody crazy. Maybe a hug from Garth and a little sympathy from the Dawgs will make it all OK? Right?

I just cannot respect blind willful ignorance of obvious facts and so I am quite happy to tell Kimberly my feelings. Bluntly, as required.

Yet it seems the silly bunnies still want to upgrade and reinvest and go deeper into hock rather than harvest a lottery sized capital gain and walk. Do I think she is delirious? Possibly insane? Maybe just plain dumb?

Well I made my point yesterday. The verdict is in because Kimberly already knows the correct answers to the questions and yet she still foolishly asks Garth and the Dawgs to weigh in on her private circumstances.

So why should I be restrained when I really want to shout “Idiot” at the top of my lungs?

You think I am harsh and insulting? I am guessing you must also be a part of the same delusional crowd that is driving prices skyward and putting the nation at risk of a major blowout.

I feel no sympathy for any of you to be honest because I consider the lot of you to be fools who don’t understand what researching a major life-altering purchase is all about, never mind understanding “risk analysis” or “due diligence”.

You actually caught me on a day when I was being kind and generous in expressing my disgust for the kind of mindless risk that now pervades our housing markets.

In any event, you are not my audience of choice if you have failed to see through the foolishness of a gal like Kimberly who worries more about having to move two times or maybe give up a holiday in order to stupidly sacrifice one of the most incredible gifts a homeowner ever gets.

Free money.

The opportunity to take down a massive lottery sized gain and with no personal effort at all. With no special education required to take advantage of it. And yet the poor thing still seems a little handicapped to me. Just can’t quite figure this one out even when it is obvious as hell. So she stumbles onto this blog asking for advice in a cute way.

I gave it.

Yes, I think Kimberly is a fool. Like many others in that city of hers she is similarly blinded by the theoretical gains to date and cannot see the hazards that lie ahead. She deserves the losses she will suffer if she upgrades and up-sizes instead of cashing out at the top and harvesting a once in a life time opportunity.

That is my honest opinion.

BMO has recently made it plain. Four major corrections in thirty years. Let me do the Vancouver mantra for you 1%. It goes like this…

We are rich, We are rich, We are rich…..oh CRAP! We are screwed. So screwed. What were we thinking???

POP……………….What was that?…Do you get it now pal?

#90 Marty on 06.09.11 at 8:52 am

It’s about time to separate the anecdotes from the facts when it comes to the “Hot Asian Money” buying up everything in Vancouver. Unfortunately, the facts are hard to come by… In the end, while there are surely some rich Chinese investors snapping up some of the real estate, I believe it’s mostly fluff. From the Financial Times of London:

“Some 475,000 Chinese have assets of $1m or more” (source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/4cf60cf2-ed17-11df-8cc9-00144feab49a.html#axzz15KaILVmO )

When keeping in mind that although China’s economy’s growing in leaps and bounds, the middle class there is still fairly poor compared to here. In the end, that’s hardly the “1.3 million Chinese” that could potentially be lining up for a piece of the Vancouver real estate pie.

More on the HAM fallacy: http://www.theeconomicanalyst.com/content/chinese-investors-vancouver-ham-story-more-just-hogwash

Having said that, if the few wealthy speculators are indeed buying properties in Vancouver as opposed to say Phoenix or Miami (where right now RE’s a bargain), it does show that the lemming mentality is indeed the same over there as over here.

Just an observation here and not trying to echo Cam Good’s fear-mongering, but I am surprised that more people haven’t “voted with their feet” out of Vancouver. If the cost of living became too expensive in my area, I would have no qualms finding a job and relocating to another cheaper part of the country.

#91 Heartwarming or Soul Destroying? | Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive on 06.09.11 at 8:58 am

[…] Heart of the World at greaterfool.ca 8 Jun 2011 9:31pm – “I was talking to a friend today, after a six months hiatus, and heard a great, amazing and very heartwarming story. I was told that a woman I know who managed a film industry prop house in Vancouver had put her house on the market at 900 large. The house was really nothing much — near the Metrotown Mall in Burnaby, recently repainted but that was about it; a block away from a gas station in a mish-mash neighbourhood… the heartwarming part of this is that this woman is really lovely as a person, and as I remember her from various business dealings, I can tell you that her income was nothing much, and her work was hard, unrewarding, and she did it very, very well, with no complaints. Anyway, there was a bidding war on her humble abode, and she and hubby came out of the affray with $1.5 mill. — a true lottery win! It is a good thing when those who work hard, and are kind and helpful to others receive this kind of windfall. So while the economy at large will lose when prices revert to the mean, there have been, here and there, some good results for deserving people.” […]

#92 disciple on 06.09.11 at 9:21 am

#17 LJ…
Thanks for the link. Chris Martensen is not getting to the heart of the matter. He claims that there is no solution, but for some reason, he is missing the obvious one: to fix the system you must eliminate the privilege of the banking class to force everyone to borrow money into existence via interest. Simple.

We must be wary of members of the priestly class who are well paid to protect the interests of the financial parasite class (educated journalists for example in our modern times) who pretend to empathize with our problems but do us a disservice by pretending that there are no solutions…like Chris Martensen.

#93 Mike on 06.09.11 at 9:21 am

Terrific post Garth! Made me angry and annoyed. I remember the frustration of my friend in the States who complained about paying higher taxes and supporting the idiots who bought when they shouldn’t have. Prudence gets punished but a lot of idiocy goes well-rewarded. I guess it’s our turn now. I have to say that sometimes what you write is frustrating, sometimes I don’t agree (the 8% achievable average return is just over the edge, preferreds or not) but it’s certainly refreshing. Keep up your good work!

#94 BrianT on 06.09.11 at 9:22 am

#86Garth-Here is Chris Martenson’s eloquent summation of the mess. This is the USA debt situation over the last 30 yrs but IMO Canada would be similar-if you have evidence to the contrary you can present it. The average person does not understand that the last 30 yrs was a once in 100 yrs type of debt orgy and the main beneficiary was residential RE-when it ends it won’t be pretty IMO. Here is Martenson-IMO everyone should read this and then re-read it because most are clueless on this reality http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/death-debt/58941

#95 Fuzzy on 06.09.11 at 9:23 am

What entry points?

We’re only -2% YTD. We haven’t had an entry point in over a year. Wait until the TSX drops 10-15% from a peak … now that’s an entry point.

#96 Victoria on 06.09.11 at 9:24 am

#73,

We had two Filipino nannies (not at the same time of course) and they told me how badly they were treated in Hong Kong. Like dirt. The same thing happened here in Victoria a few years back. A nanny was basically forced into slavery.

I am not saying these people are not Canadian but the nannyies in Hong Kong always was “foreign” employers i.e. European, Canadian, American, Australian, etc. because they are treated much better.

#97 Mr Buyer on 06.09.11 at 9:28 am

When it comes time for the taxpayer to pay for this bubble a little pro rating (read alot) of the tax burden will go a long way towards ensuring it is not done again in the future. Hey I get it, it is smart to ask for tons of cash cause everyone is doing it, its the market don’t you know. If realities can be turned upside down for one reason they can be turned upside down for another. I remember when the separatists said Quebec’s boundaries are sacred even while they were trying to rewrite Canada’s. There is not much chance of my suggestion getting any traction but I still stand by it as one of few measures that would decrease the chances of my kids living through a taxpayer underwritten bubble. I mean really, just dream up a number and ask for it because the government backed loans officer is increasing his revenue from interest (huge taxes on that income could also go towards paying for the bubble and its fallout). A few small changes and we can return to getting rich through production instead of manipulation of financial instruments.

#98 Chuck D on 06.09.11 at 9:42 am

When I lived in Vancouver 11 years ago one of the reasons I left was at the time I felt it was unaffordable. I remember thinking that if a couple, both with decent jobs, couldn’t afford a house then this isn’t a place I want to stay in long term.

At the time a decent house in a decent neighbourhood was around 400k. (seems like a great deal now but at the time I remember you could buy a better house in Toronto for around 300) 11 years ago there was open hostility and not so subtle resentment towards Chinese people (who I think were for the most part from Hong Kong). I remembered being a bit surprised by this because I don’t recall the same feelings towards all of the Chinese that settled in North Scarborough and Markham. Maybe it was there but I didn’t detect it. Maybe the fact that there was more land made it less threatening.

I can only imagine what the resentment is like now among the people who feel priced out. Though I’m sure there are a lot of people who sold shitty houses for ridiculous amounts of cash that are happy.

Thanks for the link to the Furminator. The shedding is driving me particularly crazy this year as I have a baby that is crawling.

#99 Utopia on 06.09.11 at 9:49 am

#77 Love This Blog answering #67 Brian,

“I disagree. Jimbo has it right. Time to start putting Canadians first, not last”
=========================

OK. But define who is a Canadian and who is not please. Will you also suggest we limit Asian immigration? Shall we eliminate foreign investment? Maybe just in housing? Is business investment and selling of the Tar-Sands to those Asian hordes OK with you? How about selling all of BC’s forest licences to the Chinese or giving them the rights to invest and own the Port of Vancouver and all it’s facilities.

They are shippers. Is that OK. Are they Canadian then?

Lets agree then that no Chinese can buy houses in Canada unless they are already citizens. Lets eliminate the investor class altogether and remove that category from the our current immigration policy.

But some Chinese are also Canadians are they not?

Then lets put a head-tax on those who are just buying homes for convenience and to get a free passport. If they buy a home and don’t occupy it full time we can double or triple tax them until they relent and stay here.

We want them to stay here if they buy here, right?

Let’s go one step further. we will open our borders to the Greeks and the Irish, people from Iceland, Italy, Spain, Portugal and all the other basket case countries of Europe.

Those are more like so-called real Canadians right? White folks. The Chinese are not really Canadians because they all come with evil intentions to take over the country. They are all here to steal our best ideas from our universities, to infect our computer systems with spy-ware, to infiltrate our government and children’s minds with lollipops and even to dominate the world.

I say those fake Canadians should just stay in their own country! Canada first! Head taxes for all. Bring the Greeks and Irish! We need more white people.

Is that Sarcastic enough for you “Love this Blog” ?

#100 Helga on 06.09.11 at 9:56 am

If we stop buying all the crap China produces, there will be fewer millionaires to buy up Canada.

#101 Kaganovich on 06.09.11 at 9:57 am

Attention Dawgies,

Ilargi elucidates the political dimension of the current crises we are experiencing in a well-written and well informed article:

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/06/june-8-2011-generation-junk.html

Highlight for me was his pointing out that Mauldin and Hudson are seeing eye to eye on some of the issues!

Derek – Yes, J.S. Mill was a super bright fellow and his land value tax idea was a good one. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

#102 Prufrock on 06.09.11 at 9:57 am

So all of these Chinese investors want to send their children to good schools. Will they still be good schools when no one in them speaks English well?

#103 Van-renter on 06.09.11 at 10:07 am

This is scary: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13692558

I wonder if in ~10 years, when we could have this aircraft carrier off Point Grey in a show of force by the PLA to protect the interests of the (by then) 2 million + mainland Chinese citizens living in Vancouver. At what point is Vancouver/Richmond a Chinese colony? I am not talking about race here, I am worried about the Chinese government and way of live changing Vancity forever….

#104 debtified on 06.09.11 at 10:09 am

#53 J on 06.09.11 at 12:35 am

I wonder what happens 10 years from now in Vancouver! White is going to be minority most likely…
***********************************************
J,

There’s a hint of dread in your post. I hate to break it to you but the whites have been the fastest growing minority in this country for a long time now.

Luv,

Asian Dude (soon to be your son-in-law)

#105 Cognizant on 06.09.11 at 10:21 am

Land Value Tax may be one tax that actually makes sense. Replace income tax with LVT?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

#106 debtified on 06.09.11 at 10:23 am

#43 Utopia on 06.08.11 at 11:54 pm

==============================
#165 Increasing that 1% on 06.08.11 at 6:38 pm

“Re: Utopia, at 83 and 86. If you keep insulting people who are you going to have for your audience?”
==============================

If you cannot appreciate candor and honesty that is not shrouded in the usual waffling and side-stepping B.S. then you know where the page-down button is.

Use it. Then move on.
***********************************************

Nicely put, Utopia. Some people need to grow up. Unfortunately, they miss out on the learning because they let their feelings supersede their intellects.

#107 Kim on 06.09.11 at 10:28 am

#6 Violet
Cam Good looks like he plays on the other team.

#108 Cognizant on 06.09.11 at 10:34 am

“The concept of “conditional private property in land” is well-known to anyone familiar with modern laws concerning real estate. In legal terms, “selling a piece of land” is a non sequitur. What is transacted is a “bundle of rights” that attaches to a particular site. These rights could include surface rights, subsurface mineral rights, aquifer use rights, air-space rights, etc. When Henry George thundered “We must make land common property!” his fervor and bluntness unnerved some people — but he meant it. George insisted that we allocate the bundle of rights according to the moral basis of ownership. Society must grant secure land tenure, refuse to confiscate the products of labor, and “not sell the land for ever” — by collecting, for society, the socially-created rental value of land.”

http://www.henrygeorge.org/rem1.htm

#109 BigAl (Original) on 06.09.11 at 10:51 am

U.S., House underwater, noone wants to hire you….

“I was having lunch with an executive head hunter the other day, and they were stating that corporations are picking their second or third choice for job applicants because they don’t want to be stuck with someone who might be underwater with their home. Corporations can discriminate against you based on your financial status, and being in a home that’s underwater is a perfectly good reason for an employer not to hire you.”

From this article about how underwater homeowners are stuck in their respective cities and can’t seek jobs elsewhere, and the new industry of renting them out to others in the same position:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43269087

This seems to show how American business shoots itself in the foot again and again with corporate bureaucracy. It’s not the talent that matters, its some bureaucratic pseudo-risk-management. All the while Brazil, China, India, who focus on talent, surge ahead.

#110 MR Sheep on 06.09.11 at 10:52 am

So many houses being built.Where fantasy gardens was,in Richmond a new complex going up with retail space, yet there are places opening up across the street from businesses going under. There are some spaces unused in industrial park right near there. There is a housing complex a block away that is still selling.
The Tax payers village on false creek is still empty, yet 3 more new complex in that same area going up.Commercial space near there is opening up like crazy. If these condos/apartments are selling like hotcakes, why do i get flyers in my mail box everyday about a 700k box called the Ospal. If its so in demand shouldn’t it sell it self?
Who needs jobs, and businesses in an economy, all you need is to build houses a house of cards forever and have a pile of gamblers. Las Vegas must be doing well since they have all the reckless people willing to gamble and give money away against a house of cards.

#111 Thetruth on 06.09.11 at 10:57 am

Junius, I thought you were a high powered lawyer!??

Short cited = short sighted ? No?

Also, you should read an entire post before you start typing. What are you saying? This skill would also help in the field of Law.

#112 BigAl (Original) on 06.09.11 at 10:58 am

It’s not visionaries with entrepeneurial business minds who run our large companies anymore, it’s HR people, lawyers, and statisticians/”risk managers”. No wonder our businesses can’t compete with the rest of the world.

#113 Victoria on 06.09.11 at 11:00 am

#73,

Sorry for the typo’s.

I meant to say

“I am not saying these people are not Canadian but the nannies in Hong Kong always wanted to work for “foreign” employers i.e. European, Canadian, American etc. because they were treated much better.

#114 Brad in Cowtown on 06.09.11 at 11:09 am

” An extreme view I do not support. Our consumer society has indebted itself, for sure, and those who had an appetite for granite, SS and hi def will see their living standard drop. But the economy is not a Ponzi and there is no substantial crisis lurking, even if housing corrects far more than I have forecast. You have no evidence to the contrary, I trust? — Garth ”

Substantial crisis? As opposed to a mild one?

The evidence below maybe doesn’t support a “crisis” theory, but surely it suggests Canada could have a hard time avoiding a recession if your RE predictions come true. No??? Unless you think a housing melt won’t affect employment.

From Ben Rabidoux over at theeconomicanalyst…

“191k jobs lost if construction jobs revert back to their norm… ”
http://www.theeconomicanalyst.com/sites/default/files/article_inside/2011/05/canada_0.jpg

http://www.theeconomicanalyst.com/sites/default/files/article_inside/2011/05/house_prices_and_housing_starts.jpg

So is it wrong to suggest a sharp increase in unemployment (like illustrated above) could preclude a recession? I don’t think so…

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2008/9/7/saupload_nm1.jpg

#115 Brad in Cowtown on 06.09.11 at 11:12 am

“…So is it wrong to suggest a sharp increase in unemployment (like illustrated above) could preclude a recession? I don’t think so… ”

obviously – Precede, not preclude.

#116 Ben on 06.09.11 at 11:15 am

America’s Dirt-Cheap Housing Markets

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-dirt-cheap-housing-markets.html

If you’re hunting for a real estate bargain, look no further: Here are cities where the typical home costs less than $82,000.

The nation’s cheapest major housing market is the area in and around Youngstown, Ohio.

There, the median home price barely breaks $55,000, according to the National Association of Realtors. We’re not talking about hovels in slums; these are well-kept homes in nice suburban or city settings priced at levels to make consumers in pricey coastal markets ache with envy.

#117 March of the Pigs on 06.09.11 at 11:21 am

A piece of the Canadian dream, Is this a joke? Sounds just like the American dream, how’d that work out?

US Home Prices Could Still Fall a Lot More: Shiller
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43339262

#118 Abitibidoug on 06.09.11 at 11:29 am

@Mr. Buyer #20:
Why should anyone who had the basic common sense enough to see housing is grossly over priced, because they actually took a minute out of their lives to pay attention to what is going on around them rather than trash like what’s going on celebrity gossip, and took their profits be taxed extra? That’s the essence of capitalism, where if a person who is an informed investor is likely to do better than one who is not.

Is there a 40-year-old you know who isn’t in hock?
I am 50 years old and not in hock now, nor was I in hock at age 40. When the economy was booming and there was lots of money around last decade, plus low interest rates, wouldn’t it have made more sense to take advantage of this environment to pay down debt and build up some savings rather than take on more debt?

#119 Pat @ YVR on 06.09.11 at 12:04 pm

#82 Junius

You are the voice of reason. I completely agree with you that “the assumption that attracting people with money to live in your city is inherently good under any circumstances is clearly false.” Their investment does nothing to enhance our quality of life or strengthen our economy. Economic immigrants are merely citizens of convenience who care little about our country.

I too am concerned about the negative effects on our sense of community. These “millionaire migrants” are not here to build a community but rather to serve themselves. The anger, frustration, racism and anti-social behaviour among local residents in Vancouver is building and palpable. This will continue to fester until our government finally shows some leadership, deals with the issues and does what is best for Canada. I fear we will be waiting a long, long time.

#120 Daystar on 06.09.11 at 12:10 pm

“I’ve encountered enough hardline Chinese to know China is not our friend. The true believers fully expect at some point their children will be going to war with our children. Current relations are just a facade.” – Cato

How many are true believers? That is thee question, Cato. There are tons of factors to consider with what you’ve just said, one of them being the true believers of Buddhism, or what the world’s response would be to Chinese agression. I’ve run into, as examples, separatists both east and west, people from broad political spectrums from pro union to pro capitalist to socialist, extremes of all walks. I’ve seen extremists in religions too, from wacko satanists in BC and cult led Christians, to puritans and looking back have seen my share of mentally messed up folks that may or may not be involved with the big four, (media, politics, religion, money) but… how many are there? What are the true percentages? How large are these minority groups and what are they truly capable of?

What is it that creates these groups? Pride? Insecurity? Fear? A shot of adrenaline? A feeling of Grandiose? A want to buy into a distorted version of reality because it “may” be better than the real version? Vengence, perhaps? Does it happen early on, perhaps as early as childhood, is it conditioning? Is it learned? What drives their leaders, what kind of psychological profile do they have…

Never mind communists, socialists and “churches” being run by socio/psychopaths, how many democracies and macro corporations are run by them and what are they capable of because its top down, I assure you. Will, in the near future, there be a world wide movement to ferret them out? The ways and means are here identify them (its not well organized yet, but its coming).

In the dark ages, authoritarianism prevailed largely because people couldn’t organize quickly against large threats the way they can now. The future wars out there won’t be as military as one thinks, but will be ideological, a war of words even in places like comminist controlled China and there are things Cato, intangibles that I believe well over 99% of this world are unaware of and yet its right in front of their noses and they are possible big time game changers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/02/19/planet-census.html

What kind of mind set is it really, Cato, that is against peace, love and forgiveness through the promotion of war and hatred through whatever means necessary?

http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/spath.htm

Who is our true foe in this? (combine this with statistics that suggest 66% of followers follow their leaders blindly intitally, often clinging to patterns of blind unquestioning obedience that are often hard to break)

Thought I’d try returning the favor of stimilating your intellectual juices as you have with mine as of late. (I owed you one) ;-)

(as an aside, my main concern with info coming from this blog are schools that are public and asian only. We need that melting pot in my opinion)

#121 Hoof - Hearted on 06.09.11 at 12:16 pm

HAM etc…

HAM is pretty easy to spot if one lives in or near ” HAM central ” , and has had a good view of the HAM invasion for last 25 years.

I was born in BC and Ist generation Canadian…the school classes were mostly Caucasian. The Japanese classmates parents were often fishermen.

The Chinese kids parents were often shopkeepers ,corner stores, farmers.

The East Indians were often involved in Trucking or lumber mills.

Regardless , everyone was employed, not rich, yet there was a real feeling of prosperity and opportunity( ..not entitlement) , which isn’t the feeling today.

Very few rich ” anybody ” ….My old neighbour is an MD, specialist and he talked about how middle class it was, his neighbours were from all walks of life.

Most rich we knew started with NOTHING and worked asses off.

Nobody flashed bling, only bling was when some kid got a domestic car from parents for graduation.
Everyone worked hard and there was ” hope “, ie parents wanted a better future for their kids after having been through War and the Depression.

I remember working as a kid picking berries, and a busload of Chinese of all ages came from Vancouver to also pick berries.

After Expo 86 , it turned upside down.

It was kind of eerie. Property prices were rising. I recall the first McMansion I ever saw was built off Granville near 49 th in Vancouver.

I thought geez that’s a big house !!! WTF?

Then these McMansions became the norm.
Properties were bid up.
Real estate was going crazy

Then entire areas of Richmond were redeveloped into Asian Malls, ethnic and demographic specific .
I think many people were shellshocked.
Not at all racist but it was like an invasion had occurred.
Mercedes, BMW’s were or common than domestics.
HAM was in condo line-ups….HAM was buying up literally everything. I knew builders that never hid the fact their clients on spec or custom homes were HAM $$$

HAM is conspicuous consumption and conspicuous exhibition of bling.
They are ” locals” after they have established from overseas, which simply skews the data.
Do a backtrack and you will most likely find a HAM root from 1986 onward..

THE HAM look down on the more established BC Chinese,….call them Railway Workers

HAM is like many things…its so obvious that eventually everyone opens their eyes and admits it.

#122 Daystar on 06.09.11 at 12:22 pm

Canada’s trade deficit widens:

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/breaking-news/canada-trade-deficit-grows-imports-hurt-by-japan

#123 Haiku on 06.09.11 at 12:36 pm

steel toed monkeys pour
fresh concrete down ragged holes
a pox on them all

#124 MikeT on 06.09.11 at 12:50 pm

Garth’s message:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SOPCyr-RaI

#125 wes_coast on 06.09.11 at 12:53 pm

In response to #19 JASN

Funny how people on one hand complain about the destruction of a neighbourhood and on the other hand are signing the cheque they got for the land. You can’t have it both ways. Either you stick together as a neighbourhood and refuse copias amounts of money (yeah right) or you don’t. If you do accept that money you have also sold your right to complain about it.

#126 BrianT on 06.09.11 at 1:12 pm

#116Ben-they are talking metro areas-the actual city of Detroit has a median asking price of about $15000-a far cry from $55000.

#127 Victor on 06.09.11 at 1:12 pm

RBC believes the Bank of Canada will likely raise its key interest rate from the current one per cent this fall, and it will sit at 1.75 per cent by the end of 2011 and three per cent by the end of 2012.

That could put further pressure on Canada’s housing market, which is already slowing due to eroding home affordability amid sky high home prices.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadas-economy-will-see-32-growth-this-year-rbc/article2053118/

=====

Soon, many will be adding 2% more in interest payments to their line of credits and mortgages…

#128 new_era on 06.09.11 at 1:15 pm

The Great Property Bubble of China May Be Popping

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304906004576367121835831168.html?mod=WSJ_RealEstate_LeftTopNews

#129 BrianT on 06.09.11 at 1:20 pm

#99Utopia-Since we are debating immigration policy, I vote for more Romanian strippers-there is a shortage of talent out there.

#130 vyw on 06.09.11 at 1:27 pm

A Globe article from last year but still a good primer on the market today:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/is-vancouver-in-a-real-estate-bubble/article1808967/singlepage/#articlecontent

Corrections happen in China (ie stock market) and Hong Kong (real estate) all the time. Homeowners in Vancouver are smart not to list in rising market – they’ll just be shut out.

#131 Westernman on 06.09.11 at 1:32 pm

I read this blog every day and ONE question keeps coming to my mind : WHERE on earth do Canadians get this idea that when somebody does something it has to ” benefit ” society as a whole. For god’s sake Canada – GROW UP!

#132 td6969er on 06.09.11 at 1:49 pm

#21 Gandalf and #61 Jimbo-excellent.

Jimbo-it’s too late, especially with majority Harper-with 24% of the people actually being the majority.
I’m not selling out, pound wise and penny foolish is where we need to see it. My kids are all going to private and learn Mandarin. It’s non negotiable. If they are to survive the 1.9trilion coming at them.
Or we move down south. Canada is not for sale-it’s already been bought and paid for. Thank you Canada. Zero patriotism. FINALLY today in Vcr at the UBC Hospice a PRO CANADA decision was made. We RESPECT our dying, not shun them. Love it or leave. Peter Ladner is saying what everyone is thinking about the invasion of HAM-it will skull —– you know what our city. One reader said it already-Vcr, Richmond, Burnaby-already happened-in less than 20 years.
Ultimately the enforced slave labour of 85% of China is too big to fend off and the corrupt 10% of China are doing it to us in Canada. And ultimatley all of this will end poorly-in a few more generations. The 4th generation of Chinese descent hate it more than we do-as they know what the new wave is all about. And the showdown between our kids and teirs as another blogger pointed out-well it’s already too late and decided, once again. Becasue there is more capitalism right now in China than here. We are hogged tied trying to fight a heavyweight.
Great info and links again on this blog. Thanks for the venue Garth. What a ride it’s been to watch the last few years by a lifetime Vcr guy like me. I’ve seen my RE investments up 4x over a decade-and I am not happy. It’s all bad long term for quality of life in Vcr.
Maybe I run for politics. And speak the truth like Peter Ladner.

#133 disciple on 06.09.11 at 1:50 pm

Okay, (my finger aimed at Utopia)…who are you…and what have you done with Utopia…:) You sure must have gotten up on the wrong side of this week…the anger from your posts lately are jumping out at me from my monitor…hopefully we’ll get the real Utopia back…

#134 disciple on 06.09.11 at 1:54 pm

In general, for a low mortgage rate of 2-4%, a 1% rise in your mortgage rate translates into a 8-9% rise in your monthly mortgage payment. Ouch!

Most people will not realize this until they simply can’t afford it any longer…then what happens is dependent on the human psyche.

#135 jen on 06.09.11 at 2:02 pm

See the following article on Tim Geitner by MIT prof and former IMF economist Simon Johnson. Interesting that he seems less enthused about ‘Canadian banks’ than the economic punditocracy in Canada.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/the-banking-emperor-has-no-clothes/

#136 MikhailC on 06.09.11 at 2:02 pm

Garth,
How much money will need CMHC to pay the banks to save them if real estate drops 30-40% in Toronto, Vancouver and other big cities for a number of years? Does CMHC have this money? Could you explain what will happen ( not to the buyers – I don’t care about them, but rather to the government, the Canadian banks, CMHC, saving accounts in Can $, value of Can $, etc) if the real estate will drop 40% and stay there for years?

#137 Patiently Waiting on 06.09.11 at 2:07 pm

Its interesting how the media are ignoring the rising vacancy rate in Vancouver. It has gone from 2.2% to 2.8% in the last year, while it has declined in all other major cities.

People are moving away, immigrants are settling elsewhere and supply continues to increase.

#138 BPOE on 06.09.11 at 2:09 pm

Junius,
Just buy a house already. You are shellshocked by what you can’t understand and comprehend. It’s OVER. Don’t you get it. Vancouver is on SALE and everyone from around the world is BUYING. Yet you contine with theories and thoughts while prices rise every day like the example of the 900K burnaby house bidded up to 1.5 million posted today. Do you think Canadians are bidding to 1.5?? Please just go BUY you have lost so much in so little time and your posts show how wrong you are everyday and in everyway. We are not talking about whether real estate going up is good for a community we are talking about unstoppable Vancouver today tommorow and FOREVER
____________________________________________
First of all, the assumption that attracting people with money to live in your city is inherently good under any circumstances is clearly false. There is no innovation or real economic growth in Monaco or other resort living destinations so frequently cited by the “world class” crowd. There is no evidence is leads to a better quality of life or a stronger economy. I see the problem in Vancouver everyday where the cost of living continues to rise making the city unattractive to new businesses and even many established companies. What Cam Good does not get is that Vancouver is far from World Class as an economy. The high prices of high prices long term will be a hollowed out economic base.

#139 BPOE on 06.09.11 at 2:11 pm

RBC in fact knows that interest rates are going nowhere. They will continue to lower their rates for the foreseeable future especially after the upcoming interest rate cut. If you think the opposite then short RBC. Regardless rates have NO AFFECT on housing in Vancouver
___________________________________________
127 Victor on 06.09.11 at 1:12 pm
RBC believes the Bank of Canada will likely raise its key interest rate from the current one per cent this fall, and it will sit at 1.75 per cent by the end of 2011 and three per cent by the end of 2012.

Long mortgage rates are set in the bond market. Short rates are set by the BoC. Regardless, intelligent thought will have NO EFFECT on you. — Garth

#140 Thirty something on 06.09.11 at 2:13 pm

Ha, the morning after I posted the Manhattan comment:

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/The-real-problem-Vancouver-yahoofinanceca-3647520808.html?x=0

#141 realpaul on 06.09.11 at 2:18 pm

Gee…..when I said what Jie said….I was accused of being ‘rascist’……..go figure…..the PC crowd can’t attack certain racial streotypes but others are OK?

What happens when rates go up though……will it be debtors prison for the CMHC insured as it is with defaulters of student loans?

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/06/09/failure-to-pay-student-loan-brings-swat-team-kicking-in-debtors-door/

Jie is saying what everyone else has been saying in that there has been a practice of recklessness by the government. I’m afraid that political confusion reigns in Ottawa regarding Chinese investment. They obviously don’t see that Canada is in the cat bird seat when it comes to Chinese investment. Flaherty and the boyz won’t rebuff the HAM for fear that Asian investment will dry up. The truth is that China needs Canada’s resources far more than Canada needs Chinese money. Until these idiots wake up to the fact….there will be no respite in the tsunami of HAM money out of the hidden accounts of the Mainland Chinese bureaucracy.

Walmart has this figured out…why can’t our doofus finance department heads. When China tried to put the screws to Walmart the company started to leave millions of containers of merchandise on the docks…..China backed off like a thief in the night. Truth be told…they need us far more than we need them. Australia learned this lesson and has restricted the HAM and now reuires a foriegn national to reside AND work in the country in order to own and maintain a residential residence. The country didn’t shrivel into a collapse because of the laws in place.

Canadians of all ethnicities are being displaced……Lets face it, we already have the highest overall taxes and the lowest wages in the industrial world…..are we not hamstrung enough that we have to now compete with bad ploicy and inefective logic coming out of our own leadership?

#142 Vancouver_Bear on 06.09.11 at 2:22 pm

#139 BPOE on 06.09.11 at 2:11 pm

I can feel your pain…..your business Mr. Realturdo dried up and finished. What is so special about this city? YOU GOT IT RIGHT RIGHT IT’S NOTHING oh wait….it’s the never ending rain.
Majority of the world’s population have a very vague idea where the Vancraphole is located. Where is your freind DA? I guess he can’t even find $$$ to pay for the internet these days, so will you soon.

#143 Vancouver_Bear on 06.09.11 at 2:32 pm

BPOE it’s for you and your “moran infestors” – Vancouver is increasingly being seen as a no-go zone for top talent.

Above all, if the economy is left weakened by departing head offices and a scarcity of talented workers, it will leave Vancouver even more vulnerable to that housing crash when it eventually comes. In economics Dutch Disease refers to countries that are overly dependent on their natural resources at the expense of other industries. Only here the culprit is real estate. Call it the Vancouver Virus.

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/The-real-problem-Vancouver-yahoofinanceca-3647520808.html?x=0

Is see that “intelligence” is a foreign word for you, so read this 50 times and then thinbk about it 100 times, may be then you will get it.

#144 kilby on 06.09.11 at 2:37 pm

#110 Mr. Sheep

How many of the False Creek condos do you suppose actually sold? Developers and marketers are very secretive about what has sold. In our North Vancouver complex a worker told me that it was supposed to be secret but the development was 70% sold. When one looks in the storage locker area, only about 30% are occupied. If anybody knows the truth about the Olympic Village sales numbers????

#145 Hoof - Hearted on 06.09.11 at 2:43 pm

HAM will be a major crash scene that will have the public in shock , politicians shitting and academics drooling over future thesis.

HAM $$ in BC is delaying the inevitable, but will be a tsunami low tide soon with not just underwater, but nudity as Warren Buffet alluded to.

Much like a concentration (of wealth) camp, people are losing hope and faith, surrendering…and the spectrum of skills is being diluted and fractured.

It will be like a mummified corpse…again hollowed out with a glorified death mask like King Tut nothing left inside to sustain the intricate organism called modern society.

#146 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.09.11 at 2:54 pm


#30 AB Bust — “maybe it’s time for a nice HAM tax.”

So they stop coming and instead head to Malaysia – Vietnam – Singapore and place their money elsewhere? There are too many taxes in this country; another serves to drive investors out.

#109 BigAl (Original) — “All the while Brazil, China, India, who focus on talent, surge ahead.”

Correct, and that is why NAmerica is declining and other parts of the world are picking up the slack, which leads to a further reason why the US is trying to bankrupt TROTW through fake wars, etc. — NAmerica has little left to offer the world.

#121 Hoof – Hearted — “. . . there was a real feeling of prosperity and opportunity( ..not entitlement) , which isn’t the feeling today.”

Excellent point about ‘entitlement’. No generation is ‘entitled’ to anything at all — there is no free lunch. See #131 Westernman’s post.

#131 Westernman — It may well be too late for the present generation to grow up, as they are already living well beyond their means, so they are contributing to society’s downfall (unknowingly).

But you are correct that each person is fully responsible for themselves; the only people who do need help are the physically and / or mentally disabled ones.
*
User Fees Didn’t know the feds. were that broke.

#147 Timing is Everything on 06.09.11 at 2:58 pm

Rent now or be priced out forever…. ;)

http://tinyurl.com/66em356

#148 Canada RE ponzi on 06.09.11 at 2:59 pm

MR Sheep #110

RE is a big part of the Canadian economy. I hear it’s over 20% but I think it’s much more. Went to a home depot at 7:30 in the morning and I couldn’t believe the lot was full of contractors. It’s was unreal and I think RE is accounting for 20-25% or more of the employment right now. Everywhere you look work on RE is being done and it reminds me of the US during the housing bubble when I lived in Miami on 2005-2006. I think Canada housing bubble has reached levels way above the US. If RE goes down unemployment will hit the upper teens but the longer this ponzi continues the worse it will be. I can not believe Canadians are so blind to what happened to us in the US.

#149 jess on 06.09.11 at 3:04 pm

.#131 TheBigLebowski
whoville is opague and complex for a reason and anyone who speaks out about this gets an un prefix attached to their name or worse intimidation..

155 Devore
regarding state approved journalists. so who really runs that state?

it is no conspiracy these secrecy havens are the norm… for e.g russian trader can sell oil at 100m bumps up the invoice (transfer pricing)for 20m sends the extra over to London and “invests” in housing in the UK.

Know your customer
Especially interesting how a dog, named monty slater received a 10,000 british gold card from the bank of scotland.

151 Hoof – Hearted –
cato inst. /freedom and prosperity etc you know the ones that cry out that government is too big ,taxes ya poor whilst interfering with your freedom of choice. Capital efficency ask Dan mitchell remember him praising Iceland for its tax cutting deregulated economic policies?

YouTube – Keynesian Economics Is Wrong: Bigger Gov’t Is Not Stimulus15 Dec 2008 … keynes · keynesian · spending · stimulus · government · flat · tax · fair · CFP · CF&P · center · freedom · prosperity · quinlan · mitchell …

“Government is a flea on the backs of the more productive people of the world said the non executive chairman of the british mortgage lender northern rock. “Granite” was the off /on shore vehicle issued 100b. worth of commerical paper. How about parmalat cayman subsidiary of bonlat financing 4b. euros missing money that never existed Secrecy jurisdiction central with the forgery in Italy.

Know your customer trust “networks”
“used as a vehicle to manage the investment needs of beneficial owner, now a retired professial who achieved much success in his career and accumulated wealth during his retirement in an orderly way.
Augustos Pinochet.
=============
reinvoicing- trading partners agree on a price for a deal, then record it offically at a different price in order to shift money secretly across borders. Global Financial Integraty in Washington estimates that about 100b is drained from developing countries /year just from this practice. The accountancy firm provide the rest

#150 Stevermt on 06.09.11 at 3:05 pm

#89 Utopia for gawds sakes your complaint against a complaint was far worse than the original complaint..take a pill !!

#151 disciple on 06.09.11 at 3:18 pm

#148 Canada RE Ponzi…

I have to agree with you now that I am no longer an owner but a renter…there were so many things I thought I needed to maintain my house and the weekly flyers inundate us with the urge to buy them. I just don’t need any of these things anymore. It’s very liberating…my entire lifestyle has changed for the better…I even find time now to post on this wretched blog!

#152 Vancouver_Bear on 06.09.11 at 3:19 pm

BPOE, start learning Cantonese and Mandarin now or be banished forever. Your inferstors will be glad to help you. Aks them what “Wo shi baichi” means…

#153 Cato on 06.09.11 at 3:22 pm

#120 Daystar – I am not aiming my distrust at the individual, but rather the regime. When authoritarian regimes are allowed to gather strength unopposed we invariably see psychopaths with God complex find their way into power reigning destruction down on the world. The capital now fleeing China could have been an instrument of change – if chinese elites want access to the freedom,opportunity & environment canada represents they shouldn’t get it by buying their way in through the back door. They could use their capital to effect change in China. They shouldn’t be allowed to gain financial benefit by being a part of an oppressive regime on one hand, yet reap the benefits of freedom bought and paid for in blood by previous generations of Canadians. You don’t see many dissidents become millionaires in China, same can;t be said of hardline party loyalists. Guess whose money is arriving in our borders?

The issue is people with diametrically opposing views like you describe can peacefully co-exist & even thrive within a free society. That is not case in regimes where dissent is often punished by a bullet in the back of the head. The regime in China is being kept in power by the very HAM now finding a home within our borders. That very regime expects at some point to march the country towards war, and a future generation of Canadians will need to pay the price for our cowardice because we want to make a few bucks off auctioning our lifestyle to the highest bidder.

#86 BrianT – Garth, the implications are larger than just house lemmings being forced to live life of austerity. A large part of our economy now revolves around this unsustainable housing bubble. When it unwinds so does the economy. These jobs tied to finance & real estate are high paying jobs driving much of our tax base. It wasn’t just the obvious employment opportunities like construction trades, the ranks of gov’t swelled to unsustainable levels as response to the bubble as well. All that employment will be unwound as bubble subsides, and we don’t have the economic foundation to offer the unemployed an alternative. Of course gov’t could step in and hire everyone to dig ditches, but we saw the end result of last round of stimulus. I doubt an even larger stimulus would do any better.

#154 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 06.09.11 at 3:26 pm

#145 Hoof – Hearted

CALLING ALL HAMSTERS

Take a look at the technical analysis piece at “oftwominds” Web-site. It describes, with alarm, the potential for a major price collapse at the Shanghai Stock Exchange.

This dire prediction, of course, may not come to pass, given the often misfired forecasts from technical analysis.

I don’t know what fundamental analysis says about China’s business climate, economy, whatever. I don’t really care. But it seems clear, according to the article, that a classic bubble has formed and it’s gotta go somewhere! Kablooey seems like a decent destination.

Meanwhile the world awaits US central banker Bernanke’s decision whether or not to launch QE 3 (more money printing to buy up US bonds that nobody else wants. Price inflation and asset deflation are the results we have already seen with QEs 1 & 2.

As for further US government-sponsored economic stimulation programs (adding yet more debt to an already dead economy) that seems to be DOA as far as the Republican-dominated House is concerned.

Meanwhile stock markets in Canada and the US finished nicely up today, a great sell signal. That queezy feeling about some awful other economic shoe to drop just won’t go away.

The HAMsters should be taking note.

#155 Harry Cho on 06.09.11 at 3:40 pm

#61 Jimbo

“We’ve sealed the fate of our kids. Instead of passing the homes, businesses, communities, and culture down to Canadian kids, we’ve sold off the golden goose and have left nothing for them.”

It’s weak a** attitudes like yours that have allowed the Ham’s to get so far ahead of the average Canadian.

The Chinese and other emerging nations people are working their a** off daily to raise living standards at home. No damn socialized medicare or other BS guverment services over there either.

Look stop being a damn tax farm slave and realize that Canada is a gigantic country with virtually unlimited land resources.

Vancouver and T.O is not all there is to Canada. Let the Ham’s have every last square inch of it.

Buy dirt cheap land outside these areas and establish a community.

If you build it, they will come.

#156 MR Sheep on 06.09.11 at 4:02 pm

#144 kilby

False creek looks like death, all the time. If its 70 percent sold im sure they are all investors because no one is ever there. They are building what looks like 3 new giant complex for housing. Even in Burnaby near BCIT there are 2 giant complexes being built, both are still selling. Of course just a street away from that there is a renovation being done on an apartment which is pretty much empty. Of course one block from there another reno on an apartment which is empty.

#148 Canada RE Ponzi…
looking for jobs in vancouver/lowermainland are basically plumbing, carpenter, electrician, landscaping, form work, glaziers,genercal labour, and dry wall. Looks like a sounds economy , lets keep on manufacturing houses so we can house every person in the world here.
Screw Monaco, who needs sunshine and beaches when you can have rain and mold.

#157 disciple on 06.09.11 at 4:07 pm

Trying again…Spiders on Drugs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc

#158 Timing is Everything on 06.09.11 at 4:14 pm

#120 Daystar – said “…a distorted version of reality…”

Is there any other kind?

#159 Jsan on 06.09.11 at 4:31 pm

29 Gandalf on 06.08.11 at 10:55 pm

……….. By the way, my father was big developer in the late 70′s and got buried in the early 80′s crash, so our family has lived through a real estate collapse first hand and it’s not pretty when you are virtually wiped out.”

=====================================

I can still remember my dad talking about his accountant back in the early 80’s who was quite well off and also very heavily invested in Real Estate. He was financially wiped out when the market turned.

This last generation of 20 to mid thirty year olds have absolutely no clue that they could be financially wiped out so quickly if they are leveraged in bubble priced real estate. They have grown up in the credit bubble era. They have witnessed the strong resilient economies of the last 2 decades that were being fueled by cheap and easy credit. Those days are over or in their final stage. I am quite sure that the Chinese investors are even more clueless as they have been in the game for such a short time. For that reason I can almost sympathize with them because it is always the last in “Greater Fool” who pays the price. Many of them are being suckered in by what can only be called realtor con artists, out to make a buck on the gullible.

#160 GTA Girl on 06.09.11 at 4:32 pm

Today’s AG report has soured me of everything. Not even an attempt to hide the corruption. How can we put a stop to the misuse of our tax money? Where do we turn now, Canada? People don’t see what our country has become. Lying cheating stealing is rewarded with no consequence. I’ve lost all hope.

#161 Cellar Dwellar on 06.09.11 at 5:06 pm

@ #107 Kim
Cam Good doesnt bat for the “other team”.
He’s an equal opportunity type of guy.
Basically, if your male or female and have the mortgage finances in order, your gonna get bent over the barrel with your pants around your ankles…….
Violet !Just close your eyes and think happy thoughts, It’ll end soon enough.

#162 ballingsford on 06.09.11 at 5:11 pm

#160 GTA Girl on 06.09.11 at 4:32 pm

Today’s AG report has soured me of everything. Not even an attempt to hide the corruption. How can we put a stop to the misuse of our tax money? Where do we turn now, Canada? People don’t see what our country has become. Lying cheating stealing is rewarded with no consequence. I’ve lost all hope.

*******

No kidding, me too! Nice that they held off releasing this until after the election.

Probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference though since there are so many sheeple out there.

Quebecor’s are much more un-sheepled than the rest of the population since they didn’t vote conservative.

#163 Cellar Dwellar on 06.09.11 at 5:14 pm

@#138 BPOE
“…prices will go up forever…”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PLEASE tell me who your psychiatrist is and what meds he has you on.
I’m getting bored with the usual prescription psychotropics and beer.
I want to swim in the delusional fantasy pool of stupidity you call “life”.
Never realizing or caring that I’ve stepped into the financial abyss until the bailiff comes knocking on my padded cell.
Ahhhhhh medicated bliss washed down with Kokanee

#164 Victoria on 06.09.11 at 5:19 pm

disciple,

You are so lucky. We are living in a house in Victoria – it needs soooo much work. Master bath half-finished, garage door falling apart, windows falling apart etc. etc. we ran out of money. I would love to sell – hubby won’t. When I look at this house all I see is what is wrong with it not the good stuff. Not a happy way to live. We will never see our money out of this place.

#165 Roial1 on 06.09.11 at 5:22 pm

#61 Jimbo on 06.09.11 at 2:07 am

Do you not understand that our children and grandchildren will be paying a HUGE price? We’ve sold out our children’s futures. Can they attend the best schools? Not easily when they are in competition with wealthy ESL non-residents (who have the luxury of not having to split their time between school and work to pay their way through school). Can they afford a house? No. Can they afford to get married and have kids? No. Can they compete with offshore riches? No way. Can they dream big here in Canada? No.

You city people sure have blinders on if you think that ONLY cities have good schools and amenities.
Take a look outside of the “cement jungle”.

Out here we have GOOD schools. Room to hike, canoe, fish, hunt, ski, or just get away from TOO many people.

As far as I am concerned your attitude to the rest of our world (Canada outside of your cement box world) is a dead end and your thinking is self destuctive in the extreme.

Get out of the city and breath!

#166 R on 06.09.11 at 5:26 pm

Is there a 40 year old who isn’t in hock ?
Is there a 20, 30 ,40, 50,60,70,year old who isn’t in hock?….. NOPE…….All of them are in hock ! There is no cure for stupidity…………..

#167 jess on 06.09.11 at 5:34 pm

evidence finding auditor

Thursday, June 09, 2011
Accused of bilking the federal government and the state of Texas out of $40 million, the city of Dallas has reached a settlement to resolve fraudulent claims involving the Medicare and Medicaid programs.

According to a press release from the U.S. Attorney’s Office, “Ambulance services generally are coded either as basic life support level or advanced life support (ALS). ALS transports are reimbursed at a higher rate by both Medicare and Medicaid. The U.S. and Texas contend Dallas directed its billing contractor [Southwest General Services] to code every 911-dispatched transport at the ALS level.” At least 40% of the transport calls should have been billed at the lower rate.

The scam was revealed by a whistleblower, Douglas Moore, who worked in the auditing department at Dallas City Hall.

The overcharges totaled $40 million. However, the federal and state governments agreed to accept only $2.47 million from Dallas, which did not have to acknowledge any wrongdoing.

#168 Increasing that 1% on 06.09.11 at 5:40 pm

#43., 89: U
As you said yesterday:
‘the poor thing,.. and daft,…
Oh baby, if only all women were as dumb as you.
Suddenly, Vancouverites strike me as stupid, grain-fed cattle, worried more about their next tasty meal than the certainty of ending up as a meal on someone else’s plate.
…impoverished in thinking.’
—————–
My question was really more rhetorical than not, especially being on a blog such as this, and all

You seem to have a lot to say and I would have thought you’d want as many as possible to listen,
but you’re ok with it, so -so be it.

You really had made your point in your first post #43(though it came across as personal to me, bwtf).

As for being able to speak here candidly and honestly, yeeah that would be a great thing, as most people who come here I’m sure would appreciate.

#169 Vancouver_Bear on 06.09.11 at 5:43 pm

BPOE take cover, chinese are buying up your world

http://en.ce.cn/Industries/Property/201007/22/t20100722_21643109.shtml

http://www.christophechoo.com/more-chinese-investors-buying-up-los-angeles-hotels-shenzhen-new-world-group-buys-sheraton-universal-hotel-los-angeles-platnium-triangle-beverly-hills-bel-air-holmby-hills-luxury-estates-homes-f/

http://www.propgoluxury.com/EN/PropertyNews/China/1573-Rich-Chinese-buying-houses-Europe.html

http://www.google.ca/search?q=chinese+are+buying+up+real+estate&hl=en&prmd=ivns&ei=CkfxTe-bD43UtQOAiPGRDg&start=10&sa=N&biw=1260&bih=862

http://www.overseaspropertymall.com/regions/south-pacific-property/australian-property/australian-property-market-boost-thanks-to-chinese-wealth/

http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2011-01/21/content_11894237.htm

BUT BUT BUT… you say they are supposed to save us here…..not happening my friend.

#170 Bruce on 06.09.11 at 5:48 pm

#29 Gandalf

Ok, after a couple of years of reading this stuff, I have to jump into the fray. I’m in the investment business and manage a lot of money for private individuals
————

That’s interesting, I know someone who manages a lot of individuals’ privates for money. Interested in a partnership?

#171 [email protected] on 06.09.11 at 5:48 pm

Those same shwi-shing-shwingers will be the first ones jumping out of their windows when everything crashes.

#172 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 5:56 pm

#28 Lost the taste for RE

Envy is also one of the seven deadly sins.

#173 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 5:59 pm

#37 Thirty something

This just in…

Because so many small minded Canadians want a HAM tax, US is considering a CCM (Cold Canadian Money) tax for buying in the US.

#174 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 6:01 pm

#39 kc

Will it make you think that you won’t be getting that hour and 14 minutes back?

#175 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 6:04 pm

#63 Goldilocks

Great post well done.

#176 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 6:07 pm

#76 Uki_7

Her? Or do you think she will send her kids all the way over here to go to public school to be taught by Jane?

#177 Joseph [original] on 06.09.11 at 6:11 pm

84 Junius on 06.09.11 at 8:13 am said
“#41 Joseph [original],

Once again you fail to properly recognize the real economic realities of China. It is caught in its own property bubble of epic proportions. Once it bursts – and it is doing that now – prices in Vancouver will look ridiculous in comparison.”

————————————–

We’ll see. Any way you look at it, whatever ails China right now from a fiscal point of view is just a temporary blip on an upward trajectory. Temporary setbacks is all that China will experience in the coming years.

#178 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 6:15 pm

I just find it interesting that everyone here now accepts HAM exists.

Wasn’t too long ago that everyone was calling the “pumpers” that come here crazy for thinking that the Van market could be propped up by foreign money, and then end their posts with something like “this will not end well”.

Read my post. It is the fear and speculation HAM causes that is a greater influence than the effect HAM itself has. — Garth

#179 Mr. Plow on 06.09.11 at 6:19 pm

Having said all that, I just watched the linked global piece, and man I still shake my head. $500,000 over what it was bought for last year! A tear down!

Man it must be a lot of investment for that sort of appreciation.

#180 Hoof - Hearted on 06.09.11 at 6:51 pm

We have had recession and depressions before….. much like an economic forest fire…….but I think this long overdue one is different.

I am not sure the wordl will really recover..I mean what kind of Marshall Plan could they create ?

I was born about 15 years after WW II and grew up with austerity and frugality,middle class…. but those were great times and great memories. Never had overhyped expectations but never felt deprived.

I sorta wish the younger crowd could go back in time and experience it, as I’ve experienced both extremes.

I just see this global mess as a bunch of Bilderberg c*cksuckers with 666 tattooed on their bodies…thinking WE are stupid and THEY can hide behind Gov’t toads and the military and have their way with us.

I guess the old bromide ” absolute power corrupts absolutely ” sticks like shit to a blanket

Maybe time to re- rent “V is for Vendetta” again

However, the ” Good Book” implies some sort of ” positive housecleaning” befere we see the” Jewish Carpenter” again…. does it not?

#181 Hoof - Hearted on 06.09.11 at 6:54 pm

The real problem with Vancouver’s outrageous house prices

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/The-real-problem-Vancouver-yahoofinanceca-3647520808.html?x=0#mwpphu-container

QUOTE:

But here’s the thing. The real threat to Vancouver isn’t that the housing market might crash. That’s happened here before. It undoubtedly will happen again. Such is the boom & bust nature of real estate in Lotusland.

Far more insidious is the impact housing unaffordability is having on employers and the broader economy. You hear stories of smart, young people leaving for jobs elsewhere. At the same time smart, young people from elsewhere aren’t coming here for jobs. The price of real estate and cost of living are too high, while pay is simply too low relative to other parts of the country. Business in Vancouver, a local newsweekly, delves into the dilemma in its latest issue with the story “Home truths hurt talent search.” (You need a subscription to read the story online but here’s the lead.)

#182 Hoof - Hearted on 06.09.11 at 7:13 pm

#110 MR Sheep

So many houses being built.Where fantasy gardens was,in Richmond a new complex going up with retail space, yet there are places opening up across the street from businesses going under. There are some spaces unused in industrial park right near there. There is a housing complex a block away that is still selling.

=========

Yeah…..Kelseys at Ironwood closed…..and down the road is a 3 story commercial building that is EMPTY

Fantasy Gardens …Townline did a JV with the Asain owners…Townline is Illich’s son…..Illich’s basically runs Richmond and have for decades. They literally raped the City on that deal…Its a terrible location for residential….the trafiic is already gridlocked .

Citys don’t give a shit…Planning departments are basically corrupt and retarded. They allow rezonings to hi density residential in old established Non residential areas …drive out businesses, with the retarded assumption the ground floor retail space will be taken over by displaced businesses….but its overpriced …seems like hair salons for HAM $$ is the only tenant.

Its just a disaster in slow motion…

#183 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.09.11 at 7:23 pm


#141 realpaul — “. . . the PC crowd can’t attack certain racial streotypes but others are OK?”

Hit the nail on the head. Screw those PC charlatans — everytime someone says ‘BOO!’ to them, they have to go into deep, mental therapy for a while.

Gawd help us if they ever grow a set!

#154 VICTORIA TEA PARTY — “It describes, with alarm, the potential for a major price collapse at the Shanghai Stock Exchange.”

A forecast, yes but if it does happen, it might be a catalyst for other major exchanges to begin teetering — we’re already on the edge of a cliff, and it won’t take much to push us over the edge.
*
20:25 clip “When will people in this country wake-up to the fact that the US is next to be taken down by the FED and the IMF.” Fitch “. . . Republican lawmakers are ‘playing with fire’ by contemplating even a brief debt default as a means to force deeper government spending cuts . . .” Public Banks “In May, Brown reported on the growing list of states that are following the example of North Dakota and establishing public banks to facilitate economic growth.” Business A Florida company buys Cdn. companies in London, Ont. then shuts them down. NAFTA? Agreement Five out of five economists agree — QE3 is on its way. 4:31 clip Apparently, Geithner has it wrong. Greek bailout could be unconstitutional. ECB Further to yesterday — “If assets fall by just 4.23%, its entire capital base would be wiped out.” More QE? 4Closures Momentum building against the banks. Has the tide turned? Stand Proud, George Orwell! “This article published today was first titled ‘JOBLESS CLAIMS UNEXPECTEDLY RISE’, but within 15 minutes they changed it to ‘Record exports temper slowdown fears’. But the original content is still visible inside the URL!” wrh.com. 4:27 clip Crummy economy, lying govt. — does this lead to a revolution?

Fukushima “I have said it’s worse than Chernobyl and I’ll stand by that. (Arnie Gunderson). Causing Trouble “Like the British and France’s Sarkozy, Indian political leaders will find themselves doing Washington’s will.” Same old, same old “Just like the Kuwaiti “Nurse” who lied to the world about stolen incubators, this is another fake used to trick us all into supporting invasion and conquest of other countries.” wrh.com.

Sanctions Only the bozos at the WH would be this dumb. Venezuela TSA Stupidity “No wonder these clowns have never actually caught a real terrorist.” wrh.com. Tennessee Their goes the ‘net — more PC shit. 1:17 clip Minneapolis — almost summer, snow still on the ground. That’s what the m$m is good for — nothing. Oz Cull To keep the GW happy? Speaking of CC — CC is a natural part of life here, but some humans aren’t. Koolaid ” If we hadn’t been drinking Al Gore’s Global Warming Koolaid, the government would have responded to the record snowfall this past winter by improving the long-neglected flood control systems along America’s rivers, and we wouldn’t be dealing with this right now.” wrh.com.

Superbug Bottoms_Up, do you know if this is accurate or not? PDF File Libya — a reminder of the reason.

#184 Kits on 06.09.11 at 7:28 pm

#6 Violet

You are an IDIOT … pure and simple. I sure hope you were being sarcastic.

I hope Cam Good pays dearly for his arrogance. His lack of sympathy for local residents and children of BC residents who wish to remain in the Lower Mainland is not appreciated. Vancouver is not New York. This bubble will end. I hope all BC resident home shoppers that were insulted by his comments refuse to work with him, either as a buyer or a seller. I know I won’t be giving him the time of day or my business.

#185 poco on 06.09.11 at 7:35 pm

#166–R
Is there a 40 year old who isn’t in hock ?
Is there a 20, 30 ,40, 50,60,70,year old who isn’t in hock?….. NOPE…….All of them are in hock ! There is no cure for stupidity…………..
______________________________________________
and yours’ is showing—that post is just as stupid as all of the trolls posts ( bpoe)

#186 Industrial Guy on 06.09.11 at 7:38 pm

According to figures from the Federal Reserve ……

U.S. household wealth fell by about $16.4 trillion of net worth from its peak in spring 2007, to when things hit bottom in the first quarter of 2009.
The problem with the recovery is …. losses were well distributed throughout the economy. Post Recession gains are skewed in favour of the wealthy.

#187 Dark Sad Monster Bunny on 06.09.11 at 8:21 pm

182 HH – how would you correct this situation?

#188 Kim on 06.09.11 at 9:23 pm

#161 City Dweller
You’re right! (:

#189 Rent Victoria on 06.09.11 at 9:43 pm

I like this post.Well whatever has shared in this blog is true that Vancouver is such an expensive place of Canada ,the people wants to live there but their dream remains dream.

#190 disciple on 06.09.11 at 10:37 pm

#164 Victoria…

Isn’t there something you can do to convince your husband to save both your equity? With inflation and rising costs and the specter of more taxes on its way, it certainly is not a good time for your money to be tied up in a pile of bricks, lumber, and tile. My wife who is much smarter than me had been contemplating selling our primary residence long before I came to the realization, so it’s not beyond the realm of possibility…try again…you have nothing to lose…actually you do…sorry.

#191 betamax on 06.10.11 at 6:37 am

The Furminator changed my life for the better.

If Cam sold them, he would actually be doing something of value to society. For a change.

#192 Robins on 06.10.11 at 2:09 pm

@73
“I can find no evidence the couple in question are not Canadian citizens, or were not born here. If you have some, then proffer it. — Garth”

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110608/bc_vancouver_domestic_servitude_110608/20110608/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
Police say Oi Ling Nicole Huen and Franco Yiu Kwan Orr moved with their children from Hong Kong to Vancouver in 2008, bringing their employee along with them on a visitor’s visa. When her visa expired, the couple allegedly confiscated her passport.

Well, no wonder they’re evil. — Garth