The biggest loser

In 1970 Jay’s folks bought this new house on the northern flank of Toronto. They paid $55,000. Sixteen years later, they sold it for $245,000. Today it’s on the market again, this time for $21,000 shy of  $1 million.

“Incredible,” says Jay.  “Ridiculous but incredible.”

Some people say this just shows the eroding value of money. Others claim it’s supply and demand. And there’s apparently no shortage of people willing to pay 10 times the average Toronto income to buy what can only be described as a 1970 boring suburban house. Of course, if this box were on the market on, say, the west side of Vancouver, you could add an extra million.

The irony of today is that while huge swaths of the population are priced out of detached houses, prices keep rising even as the number of sales like this fall. Could we be seeing the birth of a caste system in Canada, based on real estate?

Hmmm. The latest new housing stats seem to support this. Last month sales of newly-built single-family homes in Toronto, for example, tumbled by 14% on a year-over-year basis. But at the same time, sales of new condos exploded 23%. The 3,249 units snapped up meant that is was the best April ever for little concrete boxes in the sky.

And the reason?

Well, house horniness has not diminished, but the ability of people to buy sure has. When asked to explain the SFH droop and the condo plump, even the builder’s spokesguy made it clear: a $77,000 difference in average price. New houses run around $525,000 while condos clock in at $447,000.

Of course, that’s still half a million dollars, in Canada’s largest city, where the average family earns a tad over $96,000. Real estate apologists say it’s irrelevant that this is a higher income-to-price ratio than America experienced just before real estate collapsed because we have (a) more prudent banks and (b) a better economy.

Of course, with 5% down and 95% financing at teaser rates with funds given to people who lack any personal savings, I think (a) is pretty much a myth. As for (b) what better gauge of economic distress is there than unemployment? In the US right now it’s a withering 9%. In Toronto it’s 8.5%. Wow. No wonder the average Toronto house costs almost 300% more than the average American one.

In fact a new study by the pointy-heads at TD Economics forecasts a national Canadian jobless rate of more than 7% for at least the next three years. The bank also swears interest rates will be a lot higher – almost doubled – by 2015. BTW, that’s when most of our nine million house-rich Boomers said past the age of 65, have their wrinkly hippy asses retired, and start looking for money. Should be a riot.

Oh, and TD has two more things you should remember: The end of federal stimulus spending “remains a wild card.” And, “given the level of household debt, financial risk remains elevated.” Especially so, we’re told, “in Alberta, British Columbia and Saskatchewan.”

Speaking of risk, most people have absolutely no idea how much they have heaped on. With today’s real estate values, the leverage required to purchase a new $447,000 condo or a $1 million 1970 clunker is extreme – and it’s all at rates destined to risk, taken on to finance assets most people can’t afford to buy. This is debt you can’t diminish, can’t walk away from and can’t even pay off without an additional penalty.

And every day that greater fools and roguish realtors pump prices higher, the risk augments. More buyers are lost. The pool shallows. The dice are rolled.

Well, the TD bankers said this week real estate in Canada will have a soft landing. They hope. That means no US-style crash with a 40% price collapse spread over six years of continuous despair and rampant middle class destruction resulting in 13% of all houses being vacant and one in four families wiped out.

That’s the good news. Enjoy.

204 comments ↓

#1 disciple on 05.24.11 at 9:15 pm

Great post, Garth! Keep hammerin’ away, you’re doing good work here…good night…

#2 HouseBuster on 05.24.11 at 9:20 pm

I think TD is wrong. The same thing that happened in the US will happen here.

#3 bullion.bunny on 05.24.11 at 9:21 pm

Well, the TD bankers said this week real estate in Canada will have a soft landing.

How many time have I heard this before, Europe is melting down…..Japan has already melted down and China is soon to follow. The crash is coming and it will be a big one.

#4 bullion.bunny on 05.24.11 at 9:25 pm

Oh yeah 1970’s = aluminum wiring, soft like buffer and likes to start house fires……Shhhhh…..don’t tell your insurance company…….oh too late they already know.

#5 raincouver on 05.24.11 at 9:32 pm

sounds awesome, I’m ready to enjoy, bring it on

#6 Serge on 05.24.11 at 9:36 pm

Garth, I can explain this easy:
In Toronto it was different in 1970, it’s also different in 1981 and it’s been very different from 1989 to 1996 … then there has been a very different 8 year period from 2000 to 2008. 2008 was itself different but it got back to the previous different in 2009 until 2011. However most people think it’s different now … thing will stop being different and rise without difference forever.

#7 GTA House Hunter on 05.24.11 at 9:38 pm

Who will have the last laugh??
Today I was ridiculed for not buying for the last few years.
My colleague bought a semi in Markham for 399,000 with 20K down.The 20 K was 5k in personal savings, 4 K borrowed from a friend and 11K from a no interest for 6 months promo from 2 cr card company.
He recently did a refinance and the house is assessed at 450 K.
So as per his calculation he has already made 30 k over the 20 k he had invested and its going to go up only.
This crash has to come fast !!

#8 phil on 05.24.11 at 9:39 pm

Japan is a real example of a real estate frenzy which still did not recover. If this Canada’s future, the slow torture of real estate neverocovery is a lesson we will all pay for.

#9 LIfe in AB on 05.24.11 at 9:41 pm

Hey Garth, Noticed Edmonton avg. price is in the lower 300s. thats less than 4 times the avg income (90k)……is there a correction coming to the City of Champs?

#10 SMOKING MAN on 05.24.11 at 9:43 pm

O man. Garth love you bro but………………

All u say is correct but the herd is not listing. You are 100% wrong on rates. They are only going to go in one direction and that is down. down down ……………

OCD loves TO …They say Canadians are Happy, they make great money and housing is affordable. Now that maybe BS but your 200 or so posters on here are no match for the propaganda machine.

When the wife of the property virgin sees this on main street media, she will make hubby sign the mortgage docs if he ever wants to know what a soft warm thingee feels like again, after all she is competing with other beoaches. And she wants the gannet and hardwood.

Does it make economic sense nope. Is RE high risk yup. Will the herd care Nope.

You can’t beat woman anymore so you just got to go with the flow….

Buy Real estate kids. You have till June 2014 before this thing tanks…….

List Oct 2013, take your profit…………

#11 Derp derp on 05.24.11 at 9:53 pm

Well, it wasn’t a dead kitty, but at least it was a kitty picture.

#12 Cato on 05.24.11 at 9:55 pm

Problem is employment stats don’t tell whole story. For most part in both US and Canada we’ve been swapping high paid manufacturing/industrial/construction jobs for service sector or gov’t. The true employment picture is alot worse.

Other then a few puff news releases CMHC has been oddly silent. Methinks the games afoot, time for strategists on all levels to decide how to spoon feed canadians the bad news.

#13 TurnerNation on 05.24.11 at 9:58 pm

Underpriced! C’mon, in Vancouver this house would be a $3.5 million…tear down!! ;)

#14 BROMANCE on 05.24.11 at 9:59 pm

I wish someone would cite me an example of a soft landing. Just one! I thought not. SLs are a favorite of the RE hucksters. I’ve been in this business 40 years, and when you hear the words “soft landing” get ready to take it up the poop chute hard and fast.

#15 Mr. Reality on 05.24.11 at 10:00 pm

Risk what risk? There is no risk when you buy a house because prices always go up!

Mr. R.

#16 Maxamillion on 05.24.11 at 10:05 pm

Those new condos also appear to be affordable now, wait a few years after those teaser maintenance fees disappear.

#17 Elmer on 05.24.11 at 10:09 pm

This house is in my neighborhood, Bayview Village. As I walk around and look at other people walking around or mowing their lawns or whatever, it’s hard not to notice that most of them are old, almost certainly retired. I wonder why they choose to remain in such an expensive neighborhood. I wonder how long they’ll be able to afford to remain here. Hopefully not long, old people need to get out to make room for those of us who actually need to live in Toronto to work.

You sound like you deserve to be mowed by an old person. — Garth

#18 wes_coast on 05.24.11 at 10:11 pm

Any thoughts on where we see rents going when we see ownership become unaffordable with higher rates? Will demand for rentals push rents up or will the overall inflation in energy and debt carrying costs eat up the funds avail for housing in general forcing rents to hold steady or fall? Will all the those suckers that bought condos and subsidizing rents also be factors in surpressed rents? I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts (and Garth’s of course) – I’m guessing the latter will come true due to a general over capacity of housing in general – but – this is all based on anecdotal observation.

#19 Bill Grable on 05.24.11 at 10:17 pm

Not to heap gasoline on a fire – but how many people (HONESTLY) do you know, that are BURIED in credit card debt?

No BS – like when you tell your Doctor you have a few beer a week.
How far down is down?
I don’t wish that on any of the great dawgies here. But I have to bring this up. I am scared.

In the States – there is no longer the stigma of ‘stamps’, in Hawaii they have a ‘state card’ and they run the freebies onto that.

Could it happen here?

The reason I mention this – it happened again today at a large Drug Store.
The guy ahead of me was buying, I think some ink cartridges.
No sweat. I wait as he runs a card. Rejected. Uh, he tried his bank debit card – NOTHING. He used TWO more cards and finally hit with a Platinum card.

The clerk gave me the upward eyebrows.

I said NOTHING, as the poor guy has felt about as tall as Jack Layton.

I bought my purchase, and the clerk said – “you know, I see that all the time now…..” and he looked kind of wistful.

Think about it. The guy is buried – say at oh, 8 K a card and he has to whip 4 cards to carry, what, 40 bucks?

I will say it again – Mr. Turner and smarter people than this here BA from a crummy University in BC, have been warning about what is about to happen.

ARE YOU LISTENING?

Turn off the stupid hockey game and get a grip, Jackson.

Luckily our fiendishly bearded host is facile enough to be able to help a lot of people like you and me – but he only has 24 hours in a day.

Time is UP!

#20 Guy_in_Regina on 05.24.11 at 10:18 pm

Can you please provide a link to the referenced TD report, if possible?

Thanks

#21 Randis on 05.24.11 at 10:30 pm

Saw a video clip today frmo Reuters Insider. Mark Mobius thinks China’s bubble will not burst …

http://insider.thomsonreuters.com/link.html?cn&ctype=group_channel&chid=3&cid=221016&shareToken=Mzo0ZjkyMDdlYS0zZGI1LTQ2NmMtOWQzMi0zNjQ2MDBjZDdiZjQ%3D&start=0&end=276

I think its funny how he kind of think there is a bubble but it “won’t burst” … Anyhow I disagree on his view, what about you? Garth and fellow readers.

#22 TaxHaven on 05.24.11 at 10:32 pm

$55,000 to $245,000 to $979,000?

Well, we can pretty well rule out supply and demand, given the glut of unsold condos on the market now coupled with swelling SFH listings too…

It would be interesting to see some decent stats on the growth of the Canadian money supply. Obviously, any fixed asset – real estate, gold or oil , among many others – will levitate in nominal terms given a swelling paper money/credit supply…

The money supply should take into account availability of credit as well as MZM, M1 etc.

Tightening credit (coming soon!) is an effective way of controlling growth in the money supply.

And we will soon notice who has been swimming naked and who was puffed up with cheap moeny, won’t we!

#23 squidly77 on 05.24.11 at 10:35 pm

Now it’s Toronto’s turn for Chinese Lotto.

#24 Bobby on 05.24.11 at 10:40 pm

Looks like rates will stay flat until at least September

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/05/24/boc-rate-hike-on-hold-until-september-rbc/

#25 george c on 05.24.11 at 10:40 pm

I have bought and sold 3 house in last 4 years. made over 300K in profit. I blew it. Should have kept all 3 I would have made 600K. Real estate is undervalued. Take my advice and buy as much as possible. Its better than gold or stock. Anyone that buys today will double their money in 2-3 years. If you dont buy you will be priced out forever. They are not making any more land. cal your remax office now and invest in the sure thing.

#26 45north on 05.24.11 at 10:40 pm

GTA House Hunter: My colleague bought a semi in Markham for 399,000 with 20K down.

He recently did a refinance and the house is assessed at 450 K

pretty funny but from now on don’t bring up the topic of real estate with him

#27 Ralph Cramdown on 05.24.11 at 10:45 pm

I’m with Elmer.

Garth says all the Boomers are suddenly going to decide to sell, but if present trends are a precursor, many of them will instead demand property tax deferment at super low rates http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/individuals/property_taxes/property_tax_deferment/about.htm or demand subsidized home care (because it’s cheaper to keep seniors at home as long as possible, as long as you don’t count the societal costs as the breadwinner they’re displacing commutes from Barrie every day).

The NDP will demand income support programs which will likely look at seniors’ income rather than total assets — and here I thought retirees were SUPPOSED to gradually spend their assets…

Toronto’s near suburbs have a great number of older couples and widows, trying to heat (to 80deg!) more uninsulated house than they need (tax credit for that, too?), slowly becoming housebound or driving beyond when they should, confined to one floor of their multistorey home, getting ripped off by the lawn care and maintenance men…

And the family which could fill that home is in a shoddy Milton townhouse, spending too much of the budget on cars and gasoline and too much of their time on commuting.

This is the face of intergenerational class warfare.

#28 casanova on 05.24.11 at 10:45 pm

96 000 $ / average family income?? that seems to be very high indeed.
Where r u getting your statistics? I thought it was more like 69 000 $.

#29 HouseBuster on 05.24.11 at 10:48 pm

#17 Elmer
———–
F’in idiot.

#30 Another Albertan on 05.24.11 at 10:48 pm

A Victoria Day Long Weekend Anecdote from Calgary

Disclaimer: This story is worth exactly what you paid for it, but I’m telling it anyway. It’s also long. Scroll past if you want.

I met about 20 people who build homes, flip, etc on the weekend at a party. I played “builder dumb” and started asking questions. The answers pretty much 100% confirmed what I’ve thought for a number of years – that there is a major element in those “business communities” where the ultimate intent is really just the outright fleecing of the masses, by any method possible.

I heard stories about how groups of them will “trade” amongst each other in forms like “I need a small landscaping backhoe, so buddy’s company is going to sell me his old one, but he’s going to mark it up double and throw in a new snowmobile for free and then we’ll doctor the invoice”.

Speculative purchases being done requiring significant mortgages and, since everyone’s a contractor, having buddy’s company issue a letter to the bank that X has been employed since Y and makes Z per year, but Z is actually W*2 (i.e. – actually half of stated). I have no idea how that passes a litmus test, but apparently it’s working.

Documentation that is arguably fraudulent aided and abetted by a group of “talk to my special friend” internal specialists at basically each national bank who nurse any anomalies through the system as best as possible.

Tax accountants who aide and abet the shenanigans.

Lawsuits on deficiencies in custom homes taking years to settle as both sides “lawyer up” and dig in their heels, just to spite the other side.

These “developers and builders” appear to be blowing through the 20 to 25% they’ve made on these custom homes and are actually retaining very little. They’re leveraged to the max. Monster trucks and toys galore. Most owe back taxes, personally and corporately, for a number of years. Few understand interest rate math and believe 1% prime is here to stay. Many believe if they can make it through 2011, it’s nothing but blue sky and profits for the rest of the decade here in Alberta. I’ve heard of some of the most obscure penny stock investments “that are going to the moon.” Nobody can substantiate anything – they “just know”. I used to think oil money was the dumbest money. I could be completely wrong.

I knew internal self-dealings have been going on rampantly, especially during the 2004-2008 oil boom. This was my first real “horse’s mouth” confirmation of the degree. This is the stuff that never hits the media and never will.

The level of hooliganism, for lack of a better term, was mind-blowing. As was the level of collusion, arrogance, and bullying.

I had never felt as certain about the level of Ponzi occurring in western Canada until Saturday night. I am certain now more than ever that with increases in the prime and a culture of austerity starting in government budgets, the house of cards at some levels of the economy may come crashing down harder and faster than anyone might believe possible. In the least, there is going to be extreme pressure placed on some.

Everyone else’s mileage may vary.

#31 noworries on 05.24.11 at 10:49 pm

Been waiting for a while. Homes have dropped in my area but not enough. So I may follow the sheep and put down only 5 percent. If it takes a down turn ill just claim bankruptcy like every one else and I will buy back in with minimal loss. CMHC will be accountable (tax payers) and I just minimzed my risk. Thanks to no down payment

#32 Jsan on 05.24.11 at 10:53 pm

I don’t live in Toronto or Vancouver but all I can say is those people who are looking to buy should be thrilled by the speculator/oversea investor frenzy that is apparently going on. There is nothing better to crush a market than having 10’s of thousands of panic ridden speculators all dumping their “investments” onto the market at the first whiff of a US style housing meltdown. What do you think helped crush Florida, Arizona, etc.? It was a heck of allot of spec houses and condos flooding the market at once.

This is just another very classic sign of what happens at the end of a bubble. Just as we witnessed at the end of the 2000 NASDAQ tech stock bubble, all of the “Foolish” money comes rushing in at the end, prices spike higher and than the bottom falls out.

#33 Nathan in Van on 05.24.11 at 10:54 pm

Hey Garth, I love your blog, but the comments section needs a stronger hand at the helm. You say that “Abusive, obscene or disrespectful commenters will not be published.” And yet you constantly publish Smoking Man’s horrible misogynism? I’m so sick of the way this creep talks about women on here.

“You can’t beat woman anymore so you just got to go with the flow….”

Come on, Garth. Get rid of this garbage.

#34 Tim on 05.24.11 at 10:57 pm

“Of course, with 5% down and 95% financing at teaser rates with funds given to people who lack any personal savings”

You’ve never stated the ratio of high mortgages in Canada vs the United States. While we have some high ratio mortgages in Canada, I suspect there percentage of them is much higher in the states, and if this is the case, it probably explains a lot in regard to the resiliency in the Canadian market.

Wrong. The average downpayment in Canada is 7%. — Garth

#35 Jsan on 05.24.11 at 10:59 pm

To add to my previous post. Here is a chart showing the NASDAQ stock market bubble. The bubble frenzy really began around 1999. That’s when everyone began talking about tech and Internet stocks. Everyone knew someone who was investing and most had no idea or no clue what the light coming towards them at the end of the tunnel was. No, it was not the sun shining. As you can see in the chart below, all bubbles not only come crashing back to where they started from, they fall even further. This has been witnessed with every bubble including the US housing bubble.

http://education.wallstreetsurvivor.com/images_articles/dot-com_bubble.png

.

#36 InvestX on 05.24.11 at 10:59 pm

From previous post:
“Some people say developments of the past few days will retard interest rate increases in Canada. That could be. Mark Carney may wait until the autumn, knowing as he does what’s coming.”

So the raising of rates keeps getting delayed. I had wondered if our rates were going to stay low for a prolonged period of time, a la Japan, yet was always answered with a “Ain’t gonna happen.”

Yet time keeps passing by.

#37 The InvestorsFriend (Shawn Allen) on 05.24.11 at 10:59 pm

Democracy is one vote per adult.

Capitalism is one vote per dollar.

Sit and think about the implications.

Then vow to accumulate some more money.

#38 Tim on 05.24.11 at 11:02 pm

What you haven’t stated is that the US has gutted their middle class by offshoring most of the high-paying manufacturing, and even some of the white collar jobs. While this has happened here, it hasn’t happened to near the same extent. This makes a huge difference. Furthermore, Canada takes care of its people better than the States. We pay higher taxes, but you won’t be out on the street like many people are in the states if you have a medical issue, or if you lose your job. Thanks to the folks that voted for Harper, this is about to change, as we become learner, meaner, and more integrated with the United States.

#39 randman on 05.24.11 at 11:03 pm

Coming soon to a province near you….

NO Search Warrent Needed In Indiana – Police Cleared For Illegal Entry

Post by Bearcat on Sat May 21, 2011 6:32 pm
Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

By Dan Cardin

INDIANAPOLIS | Overturning a common law dating back to the
English Magna Carta of 1215, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled
Thursday that Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful police
entry into their homes. In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court
said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no
reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the
officer’s entry.”We believe … a right to resist an unlawful police entry into
a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern
Fourth Amendment jurisprudence,” David said. “We also find that
allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence
and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without
preventing the arrest.”David said a person arrested following an unlawful entry by
police still can be released on bail and has plenty of
opportunities to protest the illegal entry through the court
system.

http://forum.barkforum.com/t379-no-search-warrent-needed-in-indiana-police-cleared-for-illegal-entry

#40 DM in C on 05.24.11 at 11:06 pm

“That’s the good news. Enjoy.”

What’s the bad news?

#41 Aussie Roy on 05.24.11 at 11:11 pm

Aussie Update

How house price falls zaps consumer spending.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/how-stagnant-house-prices-are-sapping-spending-20110524-1f1uf.html

So much for house prices never fall, now even the bulls are lining up with their price fall predictions.

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/factsheets/article/-/9502319/property-price-plunge-predictions/

http://macrobusiness.com.au/2011/05/sqms-bear-maul/

Aussie banks still being shorted and their share prices still under pressure.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Sharemarkets-China-slowdown-banks-electricity-shor-pd20110524-H5TTS?OpenDocument&src=kgb

Where is the AUD headed?.

http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20110525/why-america%e2%80%99s-problems-could-be-bad-news-for-the-aussie-dollar.html

Australia and China joined at the hip.

http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/a-short-on-china-is-a-short-on-australia/2011/05/25/

With Aussie banks being shorted, house prices now falling nation wide, an over indebted population, this is the kind of total rubbish which comes from some MSM economists.

WARNING article below contains untruths, poor reasoning and insults to anyone using their own common sense. Its spruiking and insults rolled into one wonderful article, the MSM have just hit the anger stage of the deflating bubble. Looks like anyone who dares to see the biggest national house price bubble, is well a doomsdayer so dont listen, everything is just fine.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/big-banks-will-weather-the-storm-20110525-1f3e3.html

#42 The InvestorsFriend (Shawn Allen) on 05.24.11 at 11:12 pm

SHOCKING HEADLINE – CREDIT CARD DELINQUENCIES ARE LOW!!!

NEW YORK (AP) — Late payments on credit cards fell to their lowest level in 15 years during the first three months of 2011, TransUnion said Tuesday.

That sounds preposterous. Read the details here:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/1stqtr-late-credit-card-apf-1721220094.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=&ccode=

The average credit card balance is as LOW as it was in year 2000???

If this is true, then look for a strong recovery in U.S. houses starting soon.

I like the chances for my Wells Fargo shares when I hear this.

But I would ceck other sources this sounds too good to be true.

Here is another source:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/chargeoff/deltop100nsa.htm

Lo and behold it too shows credit card delinquencies have plunged!

This source does not show the delinquencies to be the lowest in 15 years but it does show the lowest in about five years and it had never been that much lower than in Q1 2011.

Who’d a thunk it!!

#43 Kim on 05.24.11 at 11:17 pm

Well a friend of mine just sold in Richmond. They had a 2 bedroom bungalow, bought for 400,000 and they sold in 4 days. It was a bidding war of all things, and they got 798,000.
So… I thought to myself ‘that lucky guy’ got out just in time…. but three days later they bought a house in Langley for 700,000???
Your right Garth, lotsa house horny people… and now the only person I think was lucky … was the realtor.
I’m your number one fan Garth, Never close shop
cause i’ll always love ya.

#44 Adam on 05.24.11 at 11:17 pm

Hey, free houses. Sign me up!

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/mortgages/bofa-to-give-away-houses/?ec_id=m1078089

#45 Romeo Jordan on 05.24.11 at 11:19 pm

http://www.yattermatters.com

Look at the chart you chumps.

#46 Kim on 05.24.11 at 11:19 pm

ps…. loved your comment about mowing!
Bravo…. respect your elders Elmer
(:

#47 Tim on 05.24.11 at 11:20 pm

Manhattan Studio for $500k:
http://99johndecolofts.com/neighborhood.php

Almost the same as Vancouver. Which city is more vibrant, exciting, friendly, has many more good restaurants and a thriving music scene, and more better paying jobs?

#48 Roy The Stacey on 05.24.11 at 11:29 pm

:..a caste system in Canada…????

Hmmm. must be an “Original Caste” oh, wait weren’t they a band from the late 60’s…… from the Peg? I remember they had a couple of decent chart hits… on Toronto AM radio….I digress.

We’ll you’ll likely end up in a cast if you try to pay off one of those Jumbo mortgages on that Canuck overpriced house crap. Wait for the THUD! it will be qick, painfull, and if you get run-over no shyster lawyer can save your butt from your own stupid. look down here, we can prove it to you.

#49 Kim on 05.24.11 at 11:32 pm

Oh yeah… to “Disciple”… thanx for not putting
“First” … is that not the biggest Yawn ever?!?!
I mean really?

#50 Westopia on 05.24.11 at 11:39 pm

Meanwhile, for china supported Westopia, Jim Chanos says he might not be bearish enough on China real estate. He’s even using some of your metaphores Garth! Life imitating art?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axqm6fZQBqU&feature=player_embedded

PS how do you like your silver when s**t hits the fan in china? Short?

#51 frank on 05.24.11 at 11:40 pm

Hello Garth,
great insight,great blog, I truly appreciate it’s humor.
I recently bought our “dream” home in calgary for 2.25M$,yet I am so convinced that real estate is a bad investment that I turned it into an expense and future capital loss. My professional corp owns the house and writes off the mortgage payments, I the meantime I rent the house from my PC. Eventually I expect to have a capital loss from it’s sale when I retransfer it to myself. As far as I am concerned, there are no laws at the CRA against loosing money. So this is how I intend to weather the storm. GTLA

#52 Utopia on 05.24.11 at 11:41 pm

#14 BROMANCE on 05.24.11 at 9:59 pm

“I wish someone would cite me an example of a soft landing. Just one”!
—————————————————–

Well sure, Bromance. I can do that. A soft landing is when you face-plant into a big cozy warm pudding with lots of chocolate flakes and tasty sweet sprinkles. It is a lot of fun actually.

Everyone knows that. That is why we all want one!

No hard landing here at all.

#53 Hoof Hearted on 05.24.11 at 11:42 pm

FEDS Stimulus ?

I think it was like giving booze to a drunk

From what I see, and discussed with our City’s Head Finance person….the stimulus funds went into infrastructure the City would have had to invest in anyway.

The savings , according to the capital plans tabled, will go into more frivolous pursuits.

IMHO, the FEDS stimulus will create a chain reaction that will results in less fiscal prudence by those local gov’ts that accepted the funds and obligate the local taxpayers for even more long term debt.

Give US a break..Stevie -Owe..

#54 old ophartz on 05.24.11 at 11:45 pm

Just wanted to let the dogs see the result of the easy credit living in Alberta.

http://vimeo.com/24175865

#55 Aussie Roy on 05.24.11 at 11:50 pm

Aussie Update

Repeat after me, there are NO subprime mortgages in Australia, there are no subprime mortgages in Australia.

GE Capital near $5 bln Australia mortgage portfolio sale

GE, which is winding down its mortgages book in the region given high cost of funds, is selling prime mortgages, sub prime mortgages and the New Zealand book. Bidders are looking at the entire lot or parts of it, the sources said.

One source said Pepper, part of Oakwood Global Finance that counts Merril Lynch as its key shareholder, was focussing on the subprime book.

GE Capital is offering about $3.5 billion in prime mortgages, $1 billion in subprime and the rest is New Zealand home loans.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/24/gecapital-australia-idUSL3E7GO3JT20110524

There are NO subprime mortgages in Australia – Really, LOL.

#56 Andrew on 05.24.11 at 11:53 pm

#18

Real estate prices are a function of rents. When RE prices outstrip rental incomes, that’s the result of a RE bubble. Rents are based on supply and demand. Currently, demand is artificially high due to debt-based prosperity (i.e. living on borrowed money). When the credit goes away and the dominoes fall, people are forced to move into smaller and more shared accommodations to deal with their financial crisis. This will blow demand out of the water and cause a collapse in rent/income ratios.

#57 Utopia on 05.24.11 at 11:56 pm

To The Big Lebowski:

In case you did not see my response to you from yesterday or if you think you can ignore it because it came late in the day, let me ask you again…

Where is your evidence of the 6000 years of history for Gold and Silver? This is not a casual question. It is a real challenge and you should be up to the task if you have any facts at all.

Please provide evidence of the 6000 year history that you have referred to for everyones benefit. Let it be conclusive. We all need to know. Perhaps some of us will even be persuaded that you are correct. Maybe we will even be inclined to invest substantially based on your evidence.

You would not just be making that number up, right?

#58 Hoof Hearted on 05.24.11 at 11:59 pm

Hippies?

ahahahahaha

I remember an old cartoon….” Where have all the Hippies gone ”

All those flower children, peace on earth…age of aquarius….Woodstock…… utopia…

It appears a 40 + year long Full Moon happened and turned them all into shallow ,money -grubbing greedy hypocrites will delusions of self – entitlement and sharp elbows at the buffet of life.

Screw them and the fellow hippy they rode in on…no sympathy here.

#59 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 05.25.11 at 12:13 am


“. . . while huge swaths of the population are priced out of detached houses, this just shows the eroding value of money.” — Well, everything runs its course, including fiat currencies. Maybe / maybe not in the present lifetime, but it will finish.

FWIW, now that young people are not looking at homes for security (they’re not), chances are that NAmerica will be similar to Europe, where most are quite happy to rent thruout their lives, not being tied down for the better part of their lives.

“. . . can’t even pay off without an additional penalty.” — Ask our son and DIL about that. After selling their condo a year after buying it, they were hit with a $21K penalty. Life (experience) is the greatest teacher.

They will be moving back with us shortly, until all their debts are cleaned up.

“That means no US-style crash with a 40% price collapse spread over six years of continuous despair and rampant middle class destruction resulting in 13% of all houses being vacant and one in four families wiped out. That’s the good news. Enjoy.”

The bad news is it might end up being double the US freefall, thanks to Jumbo Jim’s 0-40, 5-35 and 5-30 plans, aided and abetted by The Lunatic Fringe of C-H, the latter being a little tinpot dictator.

But Cdns. must like bending over, spreading ’em and being royally screwed, ‘coz they gave H a majority so let them enjoy it!
*
Fukushima 70,000 further evacuations, and Multiple 10 cm. holes in reactor.

Spanish Austerity? No thanks! And Eighty Ways To Join Your Lover (Frugality).

UK Borrows Its Brains Out and Chinese downgrades UK debt.

Gales in UK Truck (lorry) on its side. GW? Probably, and Obama’s re-election plans are well underway, what with illegal immigration being allowed, now this.

Luck? Happenstance? All these events were pre-planned and carried out with small groups of people. Luck is for rabbits.

Iraq Interesting POV, esp. with some saying not too long ago that the US would cease in 2016 (as we currently know it), and the reins of power be shifted to Chindia and Russia.

Austerity Failing in Europe, but we have it coming here!

Debt Ceiling Nice pix.

#60 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 12:13 am

Sorry about the objection Big Lebowski but you, of all people, and as an educated person must be aware that there are only very slim traces of the written record going back even 2000 years to the time when Herod ruled Israel.

There is barely even certain records that Christ actually existed as a real person for crying out loud. Beyond that there is just mere puzzling scrawls carved onto indecipherable broken clay cuneiform tablets and badly written and poorly preserved papyrus scrolls.

Where is your 6000 year history recorded?

In other words, please stop pumping lies and nonsense that fools and the uneducated might actually believe because you are not doing anyone a service with poor quality information and fabrications of truth.

Gold values are a modern myth for fools.

#61 Jody on 05.25.11 at 12:18 am

Just finished watching the game between the Canucks and Sharks, Sharks played better but lost, thought they played like they were on the power play, especially at the start of the first overtime. Canucks did not deserve to win that game, they played like wet rags, lucky OT goal. I’m sure the win will push house prices up in Vancouver.

Anyways, back to real estate, some friends just closed on a house here in Cowtown, they offered $40,000 below asking, they got it, they were the highest of 4 offers, seems everyone is low balling. I don’t think we’ll have a housing caste, to much debt, not enough “real” rich/wealthy people. No, we’ll see the shite hit the fan big time and a one time huge plummet will occur, it’s written in the stars.

Great article from the Daily Torygraph about what will happen when Greece defaults, although I take a more end of the world view and think things will crash worldwide.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100010332/what-happens-when-greece-defaults/

#62 Where's the money Guido? on 05.25.11 at 12:21 am

Well, the Vancouver Canucks make it into the Stanley Cup. In my 50 plus years of watching hockey playoffs, this is the worst hockey and worst officiating I have ever seen. I could see the puck glance off Sedin that would have negated the icing and given the Sna Jose Sharks the win, but no, these blind, totally incompetent refs managed to blow another call.
This will turn me off hockey forever if something isn’t done about the reffing. Imbeciles……And I’m from Vancouver….I hope the Canucks get eaten by whomever gets in from the east, they don’t deserve it!!!!!

#63 jas on 05.25.11 at 12:23 am

Good post.
On a differnt note….
I love hockey…
I love hockey because when canucks are playing its so easy to shop in stores…no line ups!
As for the RE, I ain’t got a clue wtf is going on in the minds of the herd.

#64 TheFirstRick on 05.25.11 at 12:33 am

Hands up for those who think Smokin’ Turd should return to the Globe and Mail and get voted down and deleted 9 times out of 10?

#65 Michelle on 05.25.11 at 12:35 am

@ Serge Lol ! I think you’re different!

#66 An Cat Dubh on 05.25.11 at 12:49 am

My niece who is soon to turn 23 thinks a house is a good investment and wants to buy one with her fiance when they get married. I hope her dad sent her the link to this site. BTW. Ronald Reagans former economics guy. Dr. Paul Craig Roberts who engineered Reaganomics said if unemployment was measured like it was in 1980, the rate in the USA is around 17%. Of course govts. don’t use rising gas or food prices as much as they used to for inflation either.

#67 wealthbuilder on 05.25.11 at 12:58 am

elmer..are you for real man???

respect your elders dude, since when does an overpriced neighbourhood not allow an older generation…If you don’t like it move or live in walley, (part of Surrey, BC) maybe then you’ll think your nice elderly neighbours aren’t so bad!

geezzzzzz…. I feel as though we have sometime before this peak has hit the top. As a good friend likes to say it always seems better than it actually is and always seem’s worse than it actually is…seems like more to go before we hit the top of this spike.

#68 Peter on 05.25.11 at 1:19 am

This use to be a country of savers. What happened Garth?

#69 BPOE on 05.25.11 at 1:21 am

1970 55k now close to a million TAX FREE and a place to live YET The american will state housing is bad. Give your head a shake folks. The american SNAKE nothing more. Housing sure has been a bust folks. Hey the same guy renting in 1970 for 500 bucks a month now rents for $2500 what a smart move.

#70 Nevin Van Nest on 05.25.11 at 2:14 am

Thats incredible when you think of it. From $55,000 in 1970’s to nearly a mill now! How are our children going to be able to afford a home at this rate. I sell real estate for a living and to be honest things are just getting out of hand for young people these days.

#71 Jas Girn on 05.25.11 at 2:24 am

Rel estate armageddon coming soon to a city/town near you. Stock-up on popcorn and drinks. Lol!

#72 Thetruth on 05.25.11 at 2:53 am

Caste system based on real estate??

It has been alive and well in India for centuries. Over 1 billion people live there. That is what they believe. The price to income ratios of RE would make Vancouver look silly!

It is happening here.

#73 Aaron - Melbourne on 05.25.11 at 3:00 am

Reverse mortgages on the rise for (Australian) retirees

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/25/3226833.htm?section=justin

#74 West Coast on 05.25.11 at 3:03 am

@ #14. Bromance (soft landing my ass)

Good call! There are a lot of examples.

1. Its not a recession
2. The recession is over
3. It is a revenue neutral tax
4. I did not have sex with that…

#75 Thetruth on 05.25.11 at 3:38 am

It is different here in Vancouver!

If you are a foreigner and want permanent entry to the country, all you have to do is buy a tear down in Vancouver for over $800,000. Then rebuild a home saying it is a business. Then you are in!

Yes, that simple. Wait until what people from China are doing is copied by people from India. This market in Vancouver isn’t going down anytime soon. Prrice to income ratios don’t matter here!

http://www.straightgoods.ca/2011/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=461&Cookies=yes

#76 Bartman on 05.25.11 at 5:04 am

So, here’s the problem I have:

We live in the lower mainland where land development and home construction have been a license to print money (with the exception of a short time in 2008/09) for the last decade. This has not improved build quality.

I sold a non-leaky condo in Vancouver in 2002 and moved to the ‘burbs to raise kids. I sold the place for the same price I bought it for in 1993. At the time we were looking at new-ish, 1400 sq. ft. 2 stories with unfinished basements on “compact” lots for $250K. I looked at the quality of these homes and I couldn’t believe anyone would pay 1/4 million dollars for them and I convinced my wife to rent instead of buying. We have been paying $1,300/month for a large 4 bed and den home on a 1/4 acre in a great neighbourhood with great schools for 8 1/2 years.

Those homes which cost $250K in 2002 now sell for upwards of $500K and they are falling apart and the proliferation of rental suites in the previously unfinished basements makes the neighbourhoods crowded and puts stress on the local utilities, schools, etc.

My wife is terrified that we will never own a home but if the prices of those homes fell by 50% and interest rates stayed the same it would still cost us more to own (mortgage) those crappy homes than it costs for rent now and we would be responsible for upkeep, etc.

I cannot see the logic in buying vs. renting but eventually, I feel, I’ll need to appease my better half (happy wife, happy life) and so I wait for the crash.

Of course, in hindsight, if we’d bought in 2002 and sold now we’d have done much better than our other investments have over the same period, but that’s another story.

Why does she want to pay $500K for a falling-apart house in a stressed hood? — Garth

#77 Tim on 05.25.11 at 5:30 am

Nobody I know makes anywhere near 96 grand a year…. maybe when they make these average income stats they should take canada’s richest 1 thousand people out of the equation. Its either that or everybody I know is just lacking class…..

That is household income. — Garth

#78 young & foolish on 05.25.11 at 6:20 am

Here is a good example of how hard wired home ownership is in the minds of people

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/home-cents/how-to-give-up-renting-without-going-broke/article2027939/

Maybe some relief to future sellers?

That article is an exercise in self-justification for an indebted journalist. Purely emotional – and evidence why housing is currently so dangerous. — Garth

#79 Steven Rowlandson on 05.25.11 at 6:46 am

Hello Garth.
You ask.
Could we be seeing the birth of a caste system in Canada, based on real estate?

Yes I think so. Those who work for the government or have very high incomes, high wealth or an inheritance will continue to have the privilege of home ownership.

Those that earn market rates of pay which is in the minimum wage plus or minus 100% and without pay raises are unlikely to afford to live in Canada.
Survive maybe, but live, have families, homes and so on, don’t be silly. Thanks to real estate buying a house and getting married and starting a family starts at $50 to $60 bucks an hour. This country is a rich mans club.
Yes, I know the truth hurts.

Steven

#80 SMOKING MAN on 05.25.11 at 6:46 am

#32 Nathan in Van on 05.24.11 at 10:54 pm

Without Lex Luther there can be no superman.
No Villan No Hero……..

#81 detalumis on 05.25.11 at 7:05 am

I wouldn’t be too hard on Elmer there. I used to feel the same way about people living in say Regent Park in downtown Toronto while I woke up at 5 A.M. and commuted from Hamilton every day. And I am sure that the boomers will not get “entitlements” based on income and not assets as today’s seniors do, the media does a very good job of boomer bashing. I do believe that today’s seniors are a very entitled, coddled group and I live in an area surrounded by the “golden demographic” too young to have been in WWII but lucked into the cheap houses, plenty of jobs and nice fat pensions. They do sit in their homes too long when they really can’t keep them up. I really believe you need to pre-plan and not expect to never, ever have to change your lifestyle once you hit 65 or so. I certainly don’t.

#82 jerry on 05.25.11 at 7:20 am

Hello Garth

Exactly what date is the Real estate Rapture going to occur and do you think it will conflict with the new proposed “end of the world’ rescheduled now for some time in October?

#83 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 7:25 am

#74 Tim on 05.25.11

“Nobody I know makes anywhere near 96 grand a year….”
———————————————————

That is because you likely live in the wrong part of the country Tim. Out West here in the land of big-oil, Potash, Uranium and Gas some people actually complain when they only make 96,000. Wages are pretty healthy in those industries and especially if you are rural or in the North.

Amazingly (and despite all the worries of a slowdown elsewhere) there continues to be a shortage of skilled labour in Saskatchewan.

Demand is huge right now and rising with plenty of expansions in the works. Really good jobs are begging fresh blood and new workers. Guys with little more than a class three (three axle drivers) in the oilpatch can pull in several hundred a day with no special experience.

Potash Corp incidentally has just recently announced a hiring blitz to expand its workforce by 10% (that is a lot of new bodies) and the pay packets are amongst the best you will find anywhere. They are expanding mining operations, doing new drills, adding management and engineering to staff etcetera and they are not alone.

Thousands of jobs are offered or planned by other companies and while you will be familiar with the big names like Cameco, Mosaic, Potash etcetera, many of the quality jobs are offered by smaller outfits…….like oil companies.

I mentioned yesterday letting a house for 500 dollars per month and I am sure some of the readers thought “that guy is living like..on welfare” or something. They will no doubt not realize that when you work in mining, oil, gas, trucking or many of the other occupations on the big bad flatlands that once away from Saskatoon and Regina, small town houses really are incredibly cheap to rent and buy.

And I mean incredibly cheap. Guys bitch about paying more than 600 monthly rents because they know the neighbor is getting away with a lot sweeter deal. Whole houses. Not apartments, not basements, not sheds. Actual prairie homes. Granted the older ones are small by many standards as they were built that way for energy efficiency in the day. It is really freakin cold out here come winter!

Course you have to put up with small town life but it is not really that bad when you are pulling down better than 100k either. This morning Saskjobs.ca had almost 9000 positions on offer. I am not talking crap McJobs either but thousands of quality high paid positions in a wide assortment of industries.

Many are in the boon-docks of course where the rents are dirt-cheap, the living is easy and the gophers are free if you are so inclined. You might even have someone like me as your neighbor (consider yourself lucky, I am pretty tame compared to most rural flatlanders).

Anyway, look for yourself. Saskatchewan has the lowest unemployment rate in the country and some of the best new opportunities available in mining, transportation, energy, engineering, skilled trades etcetera, etcetera and keep the free gophers in mind. They really are delicious!

Now why would anyone really want to live in a box in the sky and sell their soul to the bank when they can have the open prairies and actually bank most of their paycheck?

Saskjobs.ca

#84 HouseBuster on 05.25.11 at 7:32 am

#60 Jodyon 05.25.11 at 12:18 am

Just finished watching the game between the Canucks and Sharks, Sharks played better but lost, thought they played like they were on the power play, especially at the start of the first overtime.
—————————————————–
We’re we watching the same game? Vancouver was clearly the better team.

#85 Nick Vlittas on 05.25.11 at 7:48 am

I don’t know, I kind of like Smoking Man’s opinions. I mean, what are you supposed to do if your girlfriend is constantly nagging you to buy a house and she won’t shut up?

#86 Lisa on 05.25.11 at 7:53 am

I agree, Smoking Man’s comments are consistently disrespectful of women and obscene.
The moderator needs to ban this poster and others who are abusive and disrespectful.

#87 torontorocks on 05.25.11 at 7:58 am

#17 Elmer is a typical Toronto jerk. Half the clowns in this town aren’t even born and bred in this city, coming from all sorts of hick towns to live in the BIG smoke, gentrifying crackoline alley parkdale, ossington/dundas, trinity bellwoods, etc, growing a beard, getting a sleeve tattoo and those obviously not-obvious poor-boy caps and bigframed eyeglasses, flannel and beards.

I remember the old people sitting on their verandas in Ronces, alone. I remember the real estate agents getting a bead on who was how old, who was going to what home, who was ready to kick the bucket. The drive by was a deathwatch, waiting for those old people to move on so that the people who actually work in Toronto could live in Toronto. These people obviously teleported here, outlived their usefulness and therefore should leave. ANyways, I looked at some of those houses and the son or son-in-law inevitably was there, as the hero, ready to close and dispose of the estate – mom or dad sat there lonely til the end and the time the son showed up was when the parent was ready to kick it.

I remember walking through those houses and thinking that you could feel the sadness surrounding you – just empty, knowing that this house was basically how someone spent their last lonely days. Sure there must have been tons of laughter back in the day there and I hope there was…but the sadness was everywhere.

#88 Another Albertan on 05.25.11 at 7:58 am

#53/Old Ophartz:

Thanks for posting the video that essentially captures the behaviour of the people I mentioned in #29.

The only difference is that 29’s have nicer trucks and campers, otherwise this PRECISELY captures their “all about me” mindset.

Everyone else’s mileage may vary.

#89 vatoDETH on 05.25.11 at 8:03 am

Use housing spike to fulfill dreams

http://www.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mortgages/housing+spike+fulfill+dreams/4836753/story.html

#90 John on 05.25.11 at 8:17 am

Read the TD report. Where does it say 40% price collapse over 6 years?

It doesn’t. Nor did I. — Garth

#91 MikeT on 05.25.11 at 8:18 am

AVERAGE household INCOME in Toronto is a quite misleading number.
First, when you drive South on University Avenue around 7 AM, there are so many new BMWs, Mercedeses, Porsches and some Bentleys, Aston Martins, Jaguars, etc. that it looks like a car show. Those are coming out of the rich neighborhoods (Forest Hill and others). Those people’s incomes skew the average income quite a bit. Better look at the median income, and the picture is not so rosy anymore.
Second, income before taxes does not make much sense, because it’s like going hunting, seeing 10 ducks, shooting 6, but counting all 10 as shot. Tax money is something we see on paper but never get to benefit from them directly. So why would anyone look at gross income when giving out a mortgage? You can’t pay your mortgage with the money you pay in taxes. Maybe a luminous mind here can explain that to the plebe that I am?

#92 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 8:22 am

#30 noworries said….

“If it takes a down turn i’ll just claim bankruptcy like every one else and I will buy back in with minimal loss. CMHC will be accountable (tax payers) and I just minimized my risk. Thanks to no down payment”
—————————————————-
Not so fast. Somewhere in the past one of the Dawgs familiar with bankruptcy mentioned that you may not be permitted to bankrupt against your CMHC obligations. As I recall, student loans were also exempted as were child support payments and court ordered restitution and fines.

Perhaps one of the Dawgs with a background in the field can refresh my memory on that one. Are CMHC obligations exempted if one bankrupts and does the insurance liability indeed remain as part of your tax debt following a discharge?

#93 boom boom bust on 05.25.11 at 8:28 am

TD Securities has amended their forecast last week and are now calling for Canadian interest rates to rise as of September. Suck it up.

#94 charles on 05.25.11 at 8:37 am

I will pay 425K at the most for that thing in the picture!

#95 charles on 05.25.11 at 8:38 am

and I dont mean the cat!

#96 Sean on 05.25.11 at 8:38 am

Fun with math, specifically compounding… using math.com or any other similar calculator we find a 7.05% rate of compounding turns $55,000 into $981,788 over 41 years. The real question, particularly when it comes to the viability of paper money, is can ANYTHING compound at 7.05% indefinitely?

http://www.math.com/students/calculators/source/compound.htm

#97 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 8:47 am

Oh wait, I remember now. If you borrowed from your RRSP for a down payment it did not trigger a taxable withdrawal but if you bankrupted you still had to pay the bill. There was something else but my memory is rusty on the subject now.

Man, I have been reading this site for so long I hardly know which way is North anymore.

#98 The InvestorsFriend (Shawn Allen) on 05.25.11 at 8:54 am

#74 Tim on 05.25.11

“Nobody I know makes anywhere near 96 grand a year….”

Then upgrade your list of friends…

There are more people making over $100k around then you can shake a stick at. Tons of government workers. Lawyers, doctors, accountants. More make under $100k but tons (to use a highly technical term) make over that.

#99 45north on 05.25.11 at 9:23 am

Another Albertan: I had never felt as certain about the level of Ponzi occurring in western Canada until Saturday night. I am certain now more than ever that with increases in the prime and a culture of austerity starting in government budgets, the house of cards at some levels of the economy may come crashing down harder and faster than anyone might believe possible. In the least, there is going to be extreme pressure placed on some.

well if all these subterranean deals don’t make the news when they are made they won’t when they fall apart. All we’ll see are men starring out sullenly.

[email protected]

#100 kilby on 05.25.11 at 9:25 am

#57 Hoof hearted.

Your statement is really shallow and ill informed. Many of those “hippies” learned a lot about not being greedy and for the most part are now the 60 year olds that do not take more than they need from society and lead pretty good lifestyles. Nelson BC, Gulf Islands, rural Ontario are all nice places to live because of this group and how they treat their environment.

#101 Abitibidoug on 05.25.11 at 9:32 am

Response to #27 by Ralph Cramdown: Boomers getting subsidized home care or super low house taxes, also a subsidy? If younger people actually follow Rick Mercer’s to get out and vote for a change, or these younger people actually get into politics, there is no guarantee these boomers will get such subsidies. They’ll probably wish they had taken Garth’s advice to sell their pricey Toronto home and take the profits while prices were still high.

#102 Tim on 05.25.11 at 9:48 am

“Wrong. The average downpayment in Canada is 7%. — Garth”

—————–
this figure is probably only for the last few years. I’m sure if you go back 5-7 years, the downpayment was higher.

And a generation ago it was 20%. Therein lies the problem. — Garth

#103 RentinginRosedale on 05.25.11 at 10:07 am

#17 Elmer..

“I wonder how long they’ll be able to afford to remain here. Hopefully not long, old people need to get out to make room for those of us who actually need to live in Toronto to work”

Elmer, your question brings to mind another question… Why do unsuccessful people so often blame others (in this case “old people”) for their own misfortune??

#104 JohnnyBGood on 05.25.11 at 10:19 am

@ 119 Kevin (from previous post)

One one hand, the banking system does in fact create money out of thin air.

Governments issue bonds. Primary dealers (PDs) buy the bonds. Central banks buy the bonds from PDs. The money the CB uses to buy the bonds from the PDs is “money” created by the CB from nothing (out of thin air). This money becomes bank reserves held at the CB. With a 9:1 reserve-to-loan ratio, the banks can create 9 times the amount of their reserves in new loans. So $1,000 of reserves can become $9,000 of new loans.

Money that savers loan to the bank (i.e. their deposits) can be lent out at a reverse 9:1 ratio. So, out of $1,000 of deposits, $900 can be lent out. However, if that $900 gets deposited, another loan of $810 can be created. If that $810 gets deposited, another loan of $729 can be created. And so on.

So, starting with the original $1,000 in reserves, the banking system can create something approaching up to $100,000 in loans. And all this debt money can be spent into the economy like real actual money. Of course, the process is not 100% efficient. What economists called leakage.

All along the way, from CB to banks to you and me, all this new money is just debt. This debt only has value because it can be spent into the economy for goods and service, and most importantly, taxes.

The value of this debt is extracted from the future productivity of the real economy. So, in essence, what banks actually do is monetize the future wealth of you, me and every other productive member of society. And they get to charge interest for it. And this interest can only exist by forever devaluing the current money in existence. In other words, bank profits come from inflation.

So we the people generate the wealth that become bank profits. And these profits devalue our money at the same time. A loan is paid back with future wealth, but collateralized with present wealth. So if you, as a borrower, don’t have enough future wealth to pay back the loan, the bank gets to take the current wealth/assets you pledged as collateral.

So, on the other hand, banks don’t make money out of nothing per se. They make money from the wealth WE create. They put up virtually nothing. We pay everything. Nice system, eh?

You’re right that it’s all accounting tricks, but these tricks are only workable because of the real wealth generated in the real world.

In short, it’s a kind of fraud.

#105 viewwest on 05.25.11 at 10:24 am

various viewpoints on Vancouver real estate in today’s Vancouver Observer.

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/city/2011/05/20/leading-realtor-calls-vancouvers-housing-market-unhealthy

#106 Looking at a 3dimensional world with 2dimensional eyes? on 05.25.11 at 10:30 am

wrong door. com, kitty!

#107 Neo on 05.25.11 at 10:35 am

at #94 who wrote:

“Nobody I know makes anywhere near 96 grand a year….”

Then upgrade your list of friends…

There are more people making over $100k around then you can shake a stick at. Tons of government workers. Lawyers, doctors, accountants. More make under $100k but tons (to use a highly technical term) make over that.

********************************************

74% of the population make less than $50,000
ONLY 6% of the population make more than $100,000.

You can shake 100 of your sticks and only 6 will fall out with $100,000/year. Try doing some research before you talk junk.

#108 BPOE in Vegas xoxoxo on 05.25.11 at 10:44 am

#96 kilby on 05.25.11 at 9:25 am

#57 Hoof hearted.

Your statement is really shallow and ill informed. Many of those “hippies” learned a lot about not being greedy and for the most part are now the 60 year olds that do not take more than they need from society and lead pretty good lifestyles. Nelson BC, Gulf Islands, rural Ontario are all nice places to live because of this group and how they treat their environment.

=============

Shallow? No this was after DEEP reflection…

Look at the players…Their parents built this country, went through wars and depressions. Th the hippies have sucked the marrow dry…it was their generation that left us nothing and expect us to take care of them?

Hippies in Nelson etc grow pot.

#109 wetcoaster on 05.25.11 at 10:48 am

Sounds like #60 & #61 are a couple of whiny Flames/Leafs fans who can’t handle the fact the Canucks are going to the Cup… AND YOU AREN’T !! :)

Suck it up cowboys, the better team won fair and square.

#110 Mister Obvious on 05.25.11 at 10:53 am

#80 jerry

“Exactly what date is the real estate rapture going to occur”
—————–

As I drive around Greater Vancouver I see an astonishing array of new construction. I can’t stress it enough. Brand new condo developments popping up everywhere. Dozens and dozens of ’em. I could take you on a tour (and I’m certainly no RE agent).

Based on that observation I can see two distinct possibilities: The RE rapture (at least, in this neck of the woods) will either occur tomorrow… or never. You’re welcome.

#111 Ninety Six on 05.25.11 at 10:54 am

@Tim: “Nobody I know makes anywhere near 96 grand a year….”

You’re either young, or not from Toronto (or Calgary).

Lots of peeps bring in > 96K individually. And there’s no shortage of >200-300K households out there.

The 96K average household income is dragged down by the large number of single-income/single-people households out there.

If you’re talking just dual-income families, average is at least $120K.

Average household income in Calgary is $119K and 96K in Toronto and Edmonton. However people in the GTA don’t need to buy oats. — Garth

#112 eltabarnacos on 05.25.11 at 11:04 am

Lisa’s comments and others are anti free speech and shocking.
The moderator needs to ban this poster and others who are control freaks and disrespectful of our rights and freedoms.
Thanks

#113 TS on 05.25.11 at 11:05 am

F has to put a cap on mortgage insurance. The moment he implements this reality will set in and the market will adjust. C may not be able to raise rates but the cap on the amount of mortgage insurance available will slow the market. The longer he delays the worse the correction will be. Our society is experiancing the same extremes as other Western societies.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/four+Canadians+have+depend+social+services+poll/4834632/story.html

#114 Lead Paint on 05.25.11 at 11:12 am

Does anyone know if the technique suggested by
#50 frank is legal, or a good strategy?

#115 Desi on 05.25.11 at 11:18 am

BoC should raise interest rates to curb inflation: OECD

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110525/bank-of-canada-oecd-report-110525/

#116 Ben on 05.25.11 at 11:27 am

The biggest percentage losers everyday now are Chinese stocks. Anybody have an ETF symbol that goes short? I think that could be a good one.

#117 TS on 05.25.11 at 11:29 am

To: #112 Lead Paint on 05.25.11 at 11:12 am
CRA will eventually nail him. Sometimes they wait and let the pain really hit. They like to play with people who cheat.
Why wouldn’t everybody incorporate and buy a home this way? They will let him have a very small percentage for an office. A principle residence is a principle residence.
Good luck Frank. I think I hear the sirens and whistle going off in the local CRA office.

#118 Soylent Green is People on 05.25.11 at 11:29 am

snip snip:

Then you have to think a little bit ahead. Very often people are short-sighted in the maintenance that they’re going to have to do to keep their house in shape.

It’s a very sad thing to spend all that money to acquire your largest single asset and then to just watch it rot because you don’t have any money to do the most basic of maintenance, never mind home improvement.

Never mind all the people who say to me, “Gail, if I put this $45,000 kitchen into my house, that’s an investment.”

I say, “Okay, when are you planning to sell the house? Fifteen years, maybe?”

Well, then it’s not an investment, it’s a consumer item because 15 years from now that brand new kitchen is going to be an old kitchen. Nobody’s going to want it. Everything has a lifespan.

What else should home buyers know?

Not everybody’s cut out for home ownership. There’s a big bias against renting, and there shouldn’t be because for some people renting is the right choice. If you’re highly mobile and your ins and outs [when people move house a lot] are going to eat up all your profit or cost you money, then you’re a better renter than you are an owner.

One of the things people think is you can swap a rental payment for a mortgage payment – if they’re even, you’re coming out even. You’re not, because there’s property taxes, utilities will change, maintenance will go up. There’s a whole bunch of stuff that goes into home ownership.

#119 Ben on 05.25.11 at 11:33 am

Average household income in Calgary is $119K and 96K in Toronto and Edmonton. However people in the GTA don’t need to buy oats. — Garth

——————————————————-

Obviously these are two income families.

Actually it is the average of all households, some one-income, some dual-income. — Garth

#120 Ben on 05.25.11 at 11:41 am

Actually it is the average of all households, some one-income, some dual-income. — Garth

—————————————————

I don’t think there’s to many one income families that can buy houses anymore.

#121 Denisa on 05.25.11 at 11:47 am

Re Smoking man
We all know he can’t get it up, until his comments are posted . Just skip over his input. I think his comments are allowed because Smoking man is another type of a fool!

#122 wetcoaster on 05.25.11 at 11:52 am

#114 Ben FXP is the Ultra short China ETF but these are to be traded short term,not held long term.

“ProShares UltraShort FTSE China 25 NYE:FXP “

#123 Graham on 05.25.11 at 11:57 am

#76 young & foolish on 05.25.11 at 6:20 am

Here is a good example of how hard wired home ownership is in the minds of people

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/home-cents/how-to-give-up-renting-without-going-broke/article2027939/

Maybe some relief to future sellers?

That article is an exercise in self-justification for an indebted journalist. Purely emotional – and evidence why housing is currently so dangerous. — Garth

===========

Garth, I posted your comment over at the Globe and Mail website. Three people gave it a ‘thumbs up’ of approval at which point the Globe promptly removed the post because it violated their terms and conditions.

Looks like the truth hurts.

#124 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 11:58 am

#94 Sean said……

“The real question, particularly when it comes to the viability of paper money, is can ANYTHING compound at 7.05% indefinitely?”
——————————————————-

Some time ago a video was posted up here on this site. No doubt most of you have already seen it but for those who did not I will put it up again.

It discusses growth, economics, energy etc and explains in the end why we will experience peak oil in our lifetimes and possibly even see civilization crash.

Simple math. Well worth taking the time to watch.

The 8 part series is actually a lecture given in Boulder Colorado to a group of students. If by the end of the episodes you have not firmly made up your mind to change the way you look at the impending future then you probably did not listen to any of it.

Sobering stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

#125 Mr. Reality on 05.25.11 at 12:08 pm

#114 Ben on 05.25.11 at 11:27 am
The biggest percentage losers everyday now are Chinese stocks. Anybody have an ETF symbol that goes short? I think that could be a good one

I am a believer like many that the best way to short China is to short commodities and the TSX through inverse ETF’s. If demand dries up in China commodity ETF’s and the TSX (along with Australia and Brazilian markets) will get pounded because they are commodity exporters. Canada has all its eggs in the commodity basket and the markets are testing highs. Have a look at the charts. If China runs into trouble you can bet Canada will run into trouble as well.

Mr. R.

#126 BrianT on 05.25.11 at 12:17 pm

#85TO-Jeez man-you sound like you are aspring to be the poor man’s Raymond Chandler “teleported” to the Big Smoke.

#127 no guts on 05.25.11 at 12:18 pm

#25 george c on 05.24.11 at 10:40 pm
Real estate is undervalued. Take my advice and buy as much as possible. Its better than gold or stock. Anyone that buys today will double their money in 2-3 years. If you dont buy you will be priced out forever. They are not making any more land. cal your remax office now and invest in the sure thing.

———————————-
I think you are absolutely right. Houses in Weyburne , Sask will be $1 million in three years with multiple offers. Up up and away with pixie dust. The average family can afford less than $2k per month payments. Where is the continued upward pressure on prices going to come from? Maybe everyones wages will double in 3 years to keep it all going?

#128 Uncle Scrooge on 05.25.11 at 12:24 pm

$55k house 1970, $1M 2011, sounds incredible, but
$55K @ 8% for 41yr comp. mthly = $1,445,843.55

Do some math people.

#129 The Housing crash is here on 05.25.11 at 12:28 pm

BoC should raise interest rates to curb inflation: OECD

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110525/bank-of-canada-oecd-report-110525/
———————————————————-

The masters OECD is telling C what he needs to do. C will do what the masters tell him to do. MUCH HIGHER interest rates coming sooner then those indebt to their eyeballs want to hear. The house of “credit” cards is going to come crashing down and the rich will come in and buy for pennies on the dollar.

#130 The InvestorsFriend on 05.25.11 at 12:29 pm

102 JohnnyBGood has another rant against fractional reserve banking (yawn) despite that the system has worked well for a 1000 years or so.

he says:

all this new money is just debt.

Actually the money is the deposits and they are matched by the debt and no new wealth is created by fractional banking. (yes by central banks but not by fractional reserve banking) Banking just allows you to borrow money. Your rich neighbour will not lend you money to buy a house. But he will deposit money in the bank and the bank will lend you that. You buy a house from a retired guy and he puts the money back in the bank and the next guy borrows it. It’s all good, not bad. Particularly when you can borrow at 3%. It’s the depositor who should be sceaming not the borrower.

101 Renting in Rosedale asked the excellent question:

Why do unsuccessful people so often blame others (in this case banks ) for their own misfortune?? (he said old people for another whiner, for you Johny it is banks.

Someone said only 6% of the people make over $100k.

Those people probably spend less time than the below $50k set blaming others.

Stop blaming and get out there and get yours.

As a start, find some rich friends and emulate them. What is that saying if you want to be a loser hang with losers. To be a winner hang with winners, not whiners ( and not weiners)

#131 Lead Paint on 05.25.11 at 12:40 pm

#115 TS on 05.25.11 at 11:29 am
I’m not sure about that- many corporations own property, nothing wrong (illegal) with that. This is not an option for most people, as banks will not lend to a new corporation without a track record of cashflow and profits.

There are cost barriers as well: it costs a few thousand $ to incorporate (properly), and then $1k to $2k t to file taxes annualy. If you only incporporate to buy a home it’s not worth it. And you will want to pay a qualified professional to do your books if your house is at stake.

As well,most people incorporate to protect their assets in case of a legal suite, so putting your biggest asset (house) under the company’s ownership is risky unless you really know what you’re doing.

Finally, if you are not the sole owner, or plan to sell your company, putting your house in to the mix is a bad idea.

But for some business owners it seems like a good way to hedge against a property decrease.

Wondering if any tax experts have some concreate pros/cons.

#132 Living In Edmonton on 05.25.11 at 12:45 pm

Here in Edmonton the Housing market correction started awhile ago. Even with this cheap historical rates Condos are down close to 7% and houses 5% in most areas.
What I am noticing now some houses and condos have been list about 40% below the City of Edmonton Assesments that was done last summer, as they are a rash of foreclosures coming on to the market.
How will Foreclosures going up over 600% the last five years affect the RE Market here in Edmonton? If we’ve surpassed record historical foreclosure % rates, and we are at historically low interest rates (we’ve gone above the foreclosure rates in the 80s when mortgage interest rate averaged 17% here in Alberta).
I guess only time will tell, but it really makes me feel ill when I think about the fact that Canada not only has the Highest Consumer Household debt in the whole G-20, but here in Alberta we have the highest household debt int the world! Like oh my god, what has gone on in this province????

#133 CRA (YOUR friend ) on 05.25.11 at 12:46 pm

Could you all please send us you names.addresses and e-mails.

Nothing serious..trust us.

#134 Devore on 05.25.11 at 12:56 pm

#89 MikeT

So why would anyone look at gross income when giving out a mortgage? You can’t pay your mortgage with the money you pay in taxes. Maybe a luminous mind here can explain that to the plebe that I am?

Just some smoke and mirrors. Presumably, the higher taxes offset out of packet costs of some of the services the taxes pay for. So it’s a wash. Your overall cost of living is roughly the same; higher taxes just mean more things are free or your standard of living higher.

That’s assuming you use all the tax paid services, which most people do not, that’s why the system works (for some definition of “works”), as long as more people are pushing the cart than riding in it.

#135 Devore on 05.25.11 at 1:01 pm

#94 Sean

The real question, particularly when it comes to the viability of paper money, is can ANYTHING compound at 7.05% indefinitely?

Indefinitely? No. Compounding interest = hockey stick curve. You need a reset every couple of decades. Bulls make money, bears make money, and the pigs (most investors) get slaughtered, and the cycle repeats.

Isn’t 7-8% about the total return of the stock index over the last whatever decades? Of course, it matters when you enter, and when you exit. Just like with houses. If you buy at the top of a cycle, you will never make the 7%. Trouble with houses is, it’s hard to time your purchase, which seems to so heavily depend on your life and lifestyle, and it is a much more expensive (as in value AND transaction cost) trade than buying and selling stocks.

I imagine there will be very very few people selling their houses and making that legendary 7% annually on them. Most people buy when everyone else is buying (prices high) and sell when everyone else is selling (prices low).

#136 Hoof - Hearted on 05.25.11 at 1:02 pm

Re Tax Man

When the economy clusterf*cks, ie day before yesterday…..watch out.

A friend of mines brother works for CRA/CRS (Revenue Canada )

He was telling me how sophisticated they are re: finding and tracking funds..which includes the use of computer programs.

They are even engaged in ethnic profiling…ie certain cultural groups have a predictable means to move/hide funds.

Staff apparently are given bounty /bonuses for trophies audits.

I vividly recall in the early 1980’s, when the economy was tanking, people were on the news outraged how Rev Can was even going after children’s bank accounts…

The Tax laws are subject to much interpretation….I can foresee a lot of builders who exploit the capital gains( ie principal residence ) getting nailed big time….

#137 Devore on 05.25.11 at 1:07 pm

#105 Neo

Ah, we always believe we are the average, and that our experience is typical. It’s like that saying: it’s a recession when my friend loses his job, it’s a depression when I lose my job. When I make a 100 grand, life’s good, and options and opportunities abound. When you make the average 40-something, it’s paycheck to paycheck.

#138 Devore on 05.25.11 at 1:13 pm

#128 The InvestorsFriend

The topic was “average incomes”, but somehow you turned the topic around to “poor people are lazy”.

#139 Bill Grable on 05.25.11 at 1:23 pm

Wee suggestion fellow dawgs – instead of posting a fifty character URL – go to tiny url.com and shorten ’em.
Looks neater and doesn’t run off the page.
It is free and works like a weasel and the links stay current.

#140 disciple on 05.25.11 at 1:31 pm

InvestorFiend:
You are using a logical fallacy called “strawman”, therefore your comments about banks are hot air. Just because someone knows more about the scam of central banking than you demonstrate does not mean that they have any “misfortune”. I am one example. Truth is truth whether you believe it or not. Also, there are plenty of people who would help their fellow man via knowledge and find this exercise much more “successful” than amassing false profits. Your definition of success is fundamentally flawed, but don’t let truth get in the way of your false profits. Central banking is not a type of fraud, it is the mother ship of all frauds. Fix this, you fix everything, including housing bubbles.

#141 Pat on 05.25.11 at 1:37 pm

#32 Nathan in Van wrote:

“Hey Garth …
You say that “Abusive, obscene or disrespectful commenters will not be published.”


Only if they offend G, otherwise he has to censure himself out.

#142 JohnnyBGood on 05.25.11 at 1:54 pm

@ 128 The InvestorsFriend

You don’t know what you’re talking about. And apparently you can’t read either.

#143 disciple on 05.25.11 at 2:00 pm

I’m in a reeeeallly boring meeting right now, so I need a diversion, so I’ll post again, yay!

I sense the wheels coming off all around me concerning the economy. I feel that an economic shock will occur before a housing crash does. I have watched the manufacturing sector dry up during my career in Canada, but now I see the same thing happening in Retail. 80% of our Industry is owned by Chinese consortiums anyway, so if people are not buying Made In China products, we are in real doo-doo.

#144 Rhonda on 05.25.11 at 2:06 pm

I used to think a small percentage of the population made well over $100, 000, at least until I moved here to Ft.Mac. Wages have steadily increased since I’ve been here (2005) and I can speak from experience that it is possible. Things are (dare I say) a little different here as when hourly wages seem to start at $35.00 and up, when you factor in how many hours a day people work (usually anywhere between 10-12 hrs) and not to mention a lot of people who work out on the different sites out here often have to drive sometimes up to 1 1/2 to 2 hrs just to get to work because some of the jobs are literally out in the middle of nowhere, it pretty much adds up to a person working a 15 hr day in which most of the time (at least with my husband) is paid travel time. Oil must still be lubricating the housing market up here since there really hasn’t been that much of a drop in prices and things still seem quite busy. Rents have dropped a bit, but not very much as we still put out $2600 a month plus which seems cheap compared to what market rent is currently at. Anyway, just wanted to share some observations.

#145 Hoof - Hearted on 05.25.11 at 2:33 pm

Just got back from driving through Richmond’s Chinatown..

Assembled land for sale…a whole strip mall for sale..

Also on news re HST…one of the BC Liberal Hansen…said they had to take the HST…there was a $2 BILLION shortfall in revenue projection within a 60 day period .

WTF ?

That was during ” good times “….

Now they are starting to bribe the public with $175 rebates per child, etc. and it appears they will hit businesses to cover shortfall.

I wonder if Harper’s Gov’t knew this and saw the BC Gov’t over a barrel and why they took the HST carrot with a Federal Bribe almost equal to the revenue shortfall.

Conclusion:

Party On?

Party O-V-E-R !

#146 Rhonda on 05.25.11 at 2:38 pm

I forgot to mention on my previous post that many people (not all though) out here will work 24 days straight (max allowed) then take 4 days off before the cycle starts all over again. Factoring in 15 hr days….it really adds up fast.

#147 Pr on 05.25.11 at 2:49 pm

What kind of imbecile will think, those prices are normal and not dangerous for the society. Good lord, help us!

#148 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 05.25.11 at 2:55 pm

#41 The InvestorsFriend

This credilt card payoff is a head-fake for those who equate this apparent fiscal rectitude with the return of American middle class prosperity and, thus, the end of the economic nightmare that plagues the American Empire and its numerous victims.

Many US economic bloggers have been following this story for months now, and their conclusion is this:

Some of these folks, who are paying off their card debts, are the same ones who’ve welched on their mortgages because of foreclosure proceedings, or the fact their homes’ values are underwater when stacked up against the remainders of their mortgages.

To your average poor American, their credit card is their only economic lifeboat that is left between them and oblivion. They simply MUST have that card. Their lives depend on it. So they pay up, even if it hurts like hell, because the interest rates on the balance are so amazingly high.

Just because these people are making regular credit card payments, or actually paying them off and chucking them out (a rare act indeed) does not answer the other question: what other debts do they have? A lot, I’d figure out including lease car payments, bank loans, lines of credit, HELOCs. After a while it all adds up, doesn’t it?

#29 Another Albertan

How interesting. This story shows desperation amongst those who wannabe rich, after they’ve witnessed how the really rich in Alberta live. Wannabe rich people eventually wind up as economic road kill.

Once the tax department gets on their case, and it generally does, they’re done like dinner: burnt meat bits, broken and busted. What they don’t need after the tax people have wormed their way in is the RCMP commercial crime laddies. And they’re out there, too!

#149 jess on 05.25.11 at 2:55 pm

“Best Schools, Fr. Immers. Dunlace Ranked 8.5 By Fraser Inst” …

that must be the main reason to overprice that sucker…the helicopter parents must be circling

=

Hedge Funds Hurt In Alleged Longtop Financial Technologies

S.E.C. Inquiry Looks at Longtop Financial of China – NYTimes.com23 May 2011… of the software maker Longtop Financial Technologies, based in China, … The S.E.C. has created a task force to investigate fraud by … The auditor, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, resigned on Sunday, … The company, based in Xiamen, China, makes software for Chinese financial services companies. …
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/business/24longtop.html – Add to iGoogle

7 Hedge Funds Hurt In Alleged Longtop Financial Technologies

#150 SMOKING MAN on 05.25.11 at 3:10 pm

So cracking a few good funny jokes is offensive

Lisa & Denisa guess this pic was ok with you too.
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2011/05/09/6561/

What is offensive and really bothering you is not my cracks and jokes. Its my real estate views, not agreeing with Garth, contrarians exist, other opinions do have validity and should be heard, don’t have to agree with me.

I think you may have missed the boat as far as Real estate is concerned, you need a correction to justify to yourself that you did the right thing by sitting on the fence, your peers who took the plunge and WON may make you sick with envy. And I am just your frustration vent target.

Don’t worry your day is coming but not for a long while, in the mean time If I offend you direct your anger at ME..
“O Garth please BAN the smoking man, please daddy he hurt my feelings.”

Denisa, answer to your first line: It really depends on what she looks like.

:)

#151 Tim on 05.25.11 at 3:28 pm

“Nobody I know makes anywhere near 96 grand a year….”

Then upgrade your list of friends…

There are more people making over $100k around then you can shake a stick at. Tons of government workers. Lawyers, doctors, accountants. More make under $100k but tons (to use a highly technical term) make over that.

Upgrade my list of friends? Does it get more shallow than that?

Also, I’ll bet the average income is 96k in Toronto and other metropolitan areas. Not everyone lives in those areas…..

#152 Dan in Victoria on 05.25.11 at 3:30 pm

Rhonda @142 144
You are so right. One of my younger friends moved up there about a year ago. He drove a dump truck here in Victoria and could never get ahead as hard as he tried.
Always short weeks or something.
We were out fishing and he asked me what I thought about going.
I told him to give it a try, one winter and one summer I said you’ll know if its for you.
He was back down a couple of weeks ago smiling from ear to ear.
I’ve got savings he said, I’m buying a new used truck and maybe a boat in two years.
Works long hours but as he said to me I’ve got a future.

#153 despeculated on 05.25.11 at 3:46 pm

@ 140 JohnnyBGood
“@ 128 The InvestorsFriend

You don’t know what you’re talking about. And apparently you can’t read either.”

No, he said they’re negative. But still pointlees. Negative people take free advice as insults, which just gives them another thing to complain about.
:)

#154 canali on 05.25.11 at 3:47 pm

here you go, garth: right up your alley: home resale prices in van decline for 10th straight month in a row….hope they only go lower for most mortals to eventually somehow ‘get into’ the market sometime down the road before their 2nd karma cycle kicks in.
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Home+prices+decelerate+Vancouver+10th+straight+month+Teranet/4838055/story.html

#155 March of the Pigs on 05.25.11 at 3:59 pm

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2011/5/25/Reno-figures-point-to-housing-bubble.aspx

BNN has jumped on the Garthwagon

#156 Rhonda on 05.25.11 at 4:00 pm

Dan in Victoria @ 150
Well, good luck to him…hope it all works out. It is pretty amazing the amount of money you can make in such a short period of time, but it does come with some sacrifice. It is very isolated here, having to drive 5 hrs to the nearest civilazation with nothing in between, long work hours, no family around, but nonetheless we came here to get ahead and hopefully go home someday then maybe it will be all worth it then. We’ve managed to put away a little over 200G and no debt since being here in 2005.

#157 Hoof - Hearted on 05.25.11 at 4:07 pm

Listen…

We have the F#$%ing Constitoooshun and the %^$#@ Charturd to use words that the Oxford Dictionary has certified as part of her Majoosties Englush…dammit

Please review the Supreme Court precedent set not long ago..you SOB’s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GGL0qGk5lA

#158 Torquemada on 05.25.11 at 4:15 pm

110⁠ eltabarnacos on 05.25.11 at 11:04 am

Lisa’s comments and others are anti free speech and shocking.
The moderator needs to ban this poster and others who are control freaks and disrespectful of our rights and freedoms.
Thanks

I’m always amazed when people assume their “rights and freedoms” extend to a private forum.

#159 Back East on 05.25.11 at 4:19 pm

If you could sell a house, build the same house next door with money left over, that’s an investment. But that cannot be done.

#160 BBC on 05.25.11 at 4:41 pm

@ smoking man:
What you say doesn’t offend me but it bores me…. Having a contrarian view is great when it is backed up with an intelligent argument not a lame attempt at ‘stand-up comedy’!

#161 City Slicker on 05.25.11 at 4:41 pm

#130 Living In Edmonton

I guess only time will tell, but it really makes me feel ill when I think about the fact that Canada not only has the Highest Consumer Household debt in the whole G-20, but here in Alberta we have the highest household debt int the world! Like oh my god, what has gone on in this province????
———————————————————
We also have the highest sexually transmitted diseases rate. People showing off just to get layed?!?!
I dunno could be a correlation.

#162 JohnnyBGood on 05.25.11 at 4:45 pm

For despeculated and anyone else who may be interested in monetary theory, I want to amend my earlier comment.

When bank reserves are created by central bank open market operations in which the CB buys gov bonds from a dealer, it would actually take $10,000 in bank reserves (not $1000) to create $100,000 of new bank credit.

But that does not change the basic mechanics of the money creation process as described in my comment.

That said, this only scratches the surface anyway. The 10% reserve ratio (or whatever it actually is for given accounts) is only the official ratio. Today, banks have a number of ways of getting around reserve requirements, so they can do more and more with less and less, and leverage up to the stratosphere.

Then when the system crashes, we the people, cover the losses. In fact, in Canada, we the people are kind enough to cover the banks (potential) losses, BEFORE the system crashes.

And to The InvestorsFriend. If, as a depositor, you don’t like the cut the bank gives you, stop lending them your money.

#163 Another Albertan on 05.25.11 at 4:53 pm

#142/144/154/Rhonda:

Yes, people can make a lot of money in Vegas McMurray. As the client in Calgary for which this “stuff” is being built and the work performed, I endorse the invoices before Accounts Payable cuts the cheque.

The truth about YMM is that people make more than others know and less than what others want to believe. I expect people working the equivalent of 1.5 to 2.0 full-time jobs to get paid proportionally more due to overtime, LOA, mileage, etc.

At the time back in the last boom, I had some 40-odd electricians on a major project in the middle of the forest in the middle of nowhere. People kept asking me if it was true they were each making 200k per year. I always laughed and no one believed me when I said that journeymen were getting $65/hr + vehicle paid to their employer, never mind in their own pocket. With standard 10+4 shifts, they might have been pulling $135k/yr with overtime back then.

While I am paying a higher hourly rate now, the propensity for “earning bravado” is still as prevalent as before. See my posts above for references to similar sub-cultures within the Alberta business universe.

Everyone else’s mileage may vary.

#164 Markey on 05.25.11 at 5:05 pm

According to this, most people feel their debt is a good thing: http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Canadians+going+into+debt+future+good+Survey/4836841/story.html

#165 Mr. Plow on 05.25.11 at 5:19 pm

However people in the GTA don’t need to buy oats. — Garth

Ha Nice.

#166 SMOKING MAN on 05.25.11 at 5:35 pm

#158 BBC on 05.25.11 at 4:41 pm

How is this for intelligent argument.

?Offshore money is buying up TO and Vancouver
A condominium in Vancouver – the most expensive Canadian city for real estate – costs C$450,000 on average. But these prices are cheap compared with major world cities such as London, Moscow, Tokyo, New York, Paris and Singapore, as well as Hong Kong.”

Read it all here. Sorry for bursting peoples bubbles.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=16&art_id=111403&sid=32505895&con_type=3&d_str=&fc=7

An forgive me if some of you find this offensive

#167 Mr. Plow on 05.25.11 at 5:37 pm

#130 Living In Edmonton

But the oil and jobs!

It will come back, that will help pay for my Ford F350 with balls from the hitch, my 40 foot fifth wheel with two quads in the back, and my boat and my snowmobile etc…

Oink Oink.

#168 ballingsford on 05.25.11 at 5:39 pm

Ben on 05.25.11 at 11:41 am
#118 Ben
Actually it is the average of all households, some one-income, some dual-income. — Garth

—————————————————

I don’t think there’s to many one income families that can buy houses anymore.

*************
True enough, if you mortgage your home based on dual incomes. What would happen if one lost their job or went on maternity leave? Or, divorced, which is probably at the 50% rate now.

That is why we currently rent, and as a family we can afford to live on rib roasts, steaks, and back ribs and pay the rent in a nice neighborhood, on a single income.

Sure, I’d like to own someday, but I’m not in a hurry, not at these prices. If I die and I’m still renting, then so what. I’m happy with my surroundings at the moment and my family won’t be in debt!

#169 Rookie57 on 05.25.11 at 5:42 pm

The average family income is $96K per year, not the average salary. Last time I looked, an average family consisted of 2 parents, 2 1/2 kids and 1/2 a dog. Most of these families have 2 incomes in order to afford the lifestyle.

#170 Mr. Plow on 05.25.11 at 5:44 pm

#148 SMOKING MAN

Agree 100%. It is a common thing, BPOE Devil’s Advocate etc…

People who are dissenters get dissed.

I don’t agree with everyone either, but they all have opinions that I welcome. More info the better.

Other posters who are not dissenters put up nasty stuff all of the time and no one seems to have an opinion then.

#171 bullion.bunny on 05.25.11 at 5:56 pm

#161 Another Albertan on 05.25.11 at 4:53 pm

People kept asking me if it was true they were each making 200k per year.

Peanuts compared to what they make at any of the North American Automotive companies (union). With overtime the average electrician on the floor makes 185k per year with overtime. Of course that does not include benefits, which are added to that 185k. Now you ask why they went under? Also they really don’t work that hard either, it’s a soft nice gig! Included is the added bonus of calling management “dick heads” to their face with no fear of reprisals! (most of management are “dick heads” but I won’t go there) Of course most of these guys and a few gals live large, I mean ROCK STAR large. So the money goes out as quickly as it comes in…..can anyone say bail out part two? Oh yeah, none of these people save any money so the government will need to bail out the pensions also.

#172 Mr. Plow on 05.25.11 at 6:00 pm

#158 BBC

But I think he has backed up his case saying that he disagrees that rates will rise, and that as long as rates remain low he expects to see real estate stay strong, he doesn’t see it dropping till 2014 when he expects rates to normalize.

Disagree all you want, but that argument is no different than many Garth has given himself. Garth provides reasons for why he feels real estate is going to go in a certain direction and at times has provided anticipated dates for that result.

How is what Smoking Man is saying is any different other than the result and the opposite reasons?

#173 Junius on 05.25.11 at 6:01 pm

#158 BBC,

Well said. Shouting “Fire! Interest Rates are going down.” Once a day does not qualify as intelligent argument.

Just dumb stuff every day.

#174 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 05.25.11 at 6:14 pm

Interesting article in today’s KDC by Tim Harper, a national affairs writer.

Headline is: “Positions for 39, but power for few” and two paras. which sums up PMSH rather well:

“The reality is the Harper majority is being run by no more than 12 men — and yes, they are all men — only half of whom are in his cabinet.

“Beyond Harper, the real power on Parliament Hill is his chief of staff, Onex Corp. executive Nigel Wright, a man who has been given the luxury of spending the political capital of a majority.”

This runs with #143 Hoof – Hearted — “. . . Harper’s Gov’t knew this and saw the BC Gov’t over a barrel and why they took the HST carrot with a Federal Bribe almost equal to the revenue shortfall. Party O-V-E-R !”

Accurate. An earlier poster (forgotten who) suggested their may be an economic shock first, which would then start the RE house of cards, plus others crumbling.

Soft or hard landing? No one knows, as there are incidents / events happening, none of which seem to have anything to do with finance, but the opposite is true.

#148 SMOKING MAN — Keep posting. I don’t always agree with your POVs, but it’s good to have contrarians here, just to upset the apple cart and get posters out of their comfort zones!

#175 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 6:18 pm

#146 VICTORIA TEA PARTY

Good post. I agree too. You are right about why credit card debt is being paid down while mortgages swim with the fishies. It is about basic security and a means to make ends meet.

Coming to Canada too.

#176 Where's the money Guido? on 05.25.11 at 6:35 pm

#154 Rhonda on 05.25.11 at 4:00 pm

Dan in Victoria @ 150
It is very isolated here, having to drive 5 hrs to the nearest civilazation with nothing in between, long work hours, no family around, but nonetheless we came here to get ahead and hopefully go home someday then maybe it will be all worth it then. We’ve managed to put away a little over 200G and no debt since being here in 2005.
So, if you say you’re up 200k clear over 6 years, that comes to over 30k per year. That doesn’t seem to be enough. It must cost a hell of a lot to “live” there. How about giving us some examples of the costs involved to live there after the rent/mortgage, which we know is huge enough. What % of your take-home pay goes to essentials? Thanks…I ask this as I’m thinking of moving there and want to weight all aspects to living in nowheres-ville.

#177 BPOE in Vegas xoxoxo on 05.25.11 at 6:37 pm

#159 City Slicker on 05.25.11 at 4:41 pm

#130 Living In Edmonton

I guess only time will tell, but it really makes me feel ill when I think about the fact that Canada not only has the Highest Consumer Household debt in the whole G-20, but here in Alberta we have the highest household debt int the world! Like oh my god, what has gone on in this province????
———————————————————
We also have the highest sexually transmitted diseases rate. People showing off just to get layed?!?!
I dunno could be a correlation.

==============================

Yeah…….and then there is the minority of Albertans that chose people for ” making whoopee” partners.

#178 Daystar on 05.25.11 at 6:44 pm

#148 SMOKING MAN on 05.25.11 at 3:10 pm

Post all you want. (there is a small amount of entertainment value in watching someone dig their own hole) For what its worth though, your opinions aren’t backed up with any hard facts whatsoever, your sense of humor is sick and your grammar sucks. It would be only too easy to offer some hard facts of my own to prove my observations. All I have to do is quote you. 8D

#179 randman on 05.25.11 at 6:49 pm

#32

Nathan in Van…..

Did your wife make you write that?

Whoosie!

#180 realpaul on 05.25.11 at 7:01 pm

The OECD chastised Canada today for the ZIRP policy…explaining that rampant inflation is getting the better of the citizens and can not be sustained……response from Carney and the ‘F-Bomb’????…….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!

Gee…tell us something we didn’t know. These two parasites alone cost the taxpayer millions. Ontario points out that they have entire bureaucracies that ‘contribute little or nothing’ in either economies or services.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/997016–hudak-puts-jobs-on-the-chopping-block

Inflating house prices has produced a surge in windfall profits for governments who have all responded by giving each other fat raises, perks and pension hikes. If property prices deflate……down goes the expectations of the fat cat parasites in the civil service.

The fact that the value of a dollar is over the heads of a majority of consumers…they think they’re getting ‘rich’ by having a realwhore or tax appraisal tell them they’ve ‘made another $50,000 or whatever……seen the grocery bill lately? Try being a senior on a fixed income….they count inflation as items that go missing from the shopping cart. Of course the economists tell us that the seniors are ‘substituting’ bwahahahahahahahaah what a load of crap. They are starving.

The ZIRP is a great and immoral scam….the fact that an entire generation of FTB’s are skewered by decades of strangling debt means nothing to the temporary parasites that draw a paycheque before sucking up a huge pension for decades longer…and for what?

“Entire bureaucracies that produce little or nothing”.

Hey…I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Iggy….but I did like one line he came out with during the campaign……..

“Rise Up !!”

Actually I think Stokey Carmicheal the Black Panther said it best……”Wake up ni**ers before we’re all through.”

#181 Sail1 on 05.25.11 at 7:15 pm

#17 Elmer

Elmer I’m an old guy living in Toronto want to by my house? I’ll give you a good deal. I’m sure I would enjoy taking your money.

#182 Devore on 05.25.11 at 7:19 pm

#162 Markey

According to this, most people feel their debt is a good thing:

Well, they’re borrowing money to invest, of course that’s good debt.

(Requisite /sarcasm tag because of internets)

#183 Devore on 05.25.11 at 7:23 pm

#164 SMOKING MAN

A condominium in Vancouver – the most expensive Canadian city for real estate – costs C$450,000 on average. But these prices are cheap compared with major world cities such as London, Moscow, Tokyo, New York, Paris and Singapore, as well as Hong Kong.

Did you just directly compare Vancouver to London, New York, Moscow, Paris and Tokyo?

An forgive me if some of you find this offensive

It is offensive, to all the Parisians and Londoners out there. On the other hand, they could not care less what someone in a backwater country like Canada or a third-string city like Vancouver has to say about them.

#184 Roial1 on 05.25.11 at 7:37 pm

77 Steven Rowlandson on 05.25.11 at 6:46 am

This country is a rich mans club.
Yes, I know the truth hurts.
————————————————-
Some times I really wonder how other people CHOOSE to live.

I have been a “Handyman” for the last 15 yrs. My wife, a waitress. She emigrated to Canada from Switzerland in 1990. (no big incomes)
Today, I am retired. We own an apartment building out-right. And our 1.35 acer property is moderately mortguaged. (The apt. is paying it down) leaving us able to travel at will.
The reason we are so well off is——Choosing to live within our incomes.
We do not have a big boat, atvs, or club memberships, we drive second hand cars (no gigantic loss driving off the new car lot) and generally watch what we spend on.

A good question that we always ask ourselves is “Do we need this?”
Seams to have worked for us so I pass it along for what it is worth.

Ps. I have fallowed Garth’s advice and bought a book of squirl recipes. (And his books)

#185 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 05.25.11 at 7:42 pm


Protests have started in Georgia. Another day, another country, and Yemen. Libya is still being booted around, because it was moving to a gold-backed currency and it was not about to bow down to the IMF. Belarus Bank runs, empty food shelves.

Another incident? QE2 bombed and AIG stock. Gold Confiscation in Europe?

Inflation Hiccuup? A Real Revolution here and now.

Depopulation This is what Ted Turner said on 60 Minutes several years ago.

3:33 clip and 1:11 clip Geithner (US) and Farage (UK). Incidents? to begin tumbling the house of cards down, and Fukushima As usual, govts. knew and didn’t tell sheeples.

Crooks GS? No! Not them! Mercy! TSA Groping Texans All Over!

PakiChina “Someday, Pakistan may block those supply lines and play the China card to Washington’s dismay.” 2:32 clip Russia to recognize Palestine today.

Different Clips ” Futures are negative UNTIL the attack on the first tower, then miraculously, futures turn strongly positive and stay in the green for several minutes while the WTC burns.”

Factory Farms vs. human waste (politicos!), and Gaza Flotilla taking Swiss politicos.

#186 David B on 05.25.11 at 7:55 pm

Add this to household debt!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303654804576345590857818106.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

#187 Rhonda on 05.25.11 at 7:57 pm

@Where’s the money Guito
Well, I can tell you that we started out paying $2300 a month when we came here in 2005, then the following year it went up to $2500, then $2800 and we paid that for quite some time and now we are back at $2600. Maybe we could’ve saved more and I often feel like we haven’t saved enough :( but I can tell you that we don’t live like rockstars, no quads, no sleds, no balls hanging off the back of a big truck. We do pay extra for hydro and gas. Basically how I figured it our rent would equal “one weeks” pay if that helps any.

#188 Ottawan on 05.25.11 at 7:59 pm

Hello, Utopia.

A response to your bullying posts to Big Leb.

I used this thing called the internets. I found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold#Investment

It states: Gold artifacts in the Balkans appear from the 4th millennium BC such as that found in the the Varna Acropolis. I guess 4millenium BC to now is close to 6000 years of history.

What? Wikipedia doesn’t count? Ok.

#189 Dark Sad Monster Bunny on 05.25.11 at 8:02 pm

50 Frank/112 Lead Paint/115 TS

Frank must also watch what his “professional” corporation is allowed to own under legislation and his professional bylaws etc. His corp may be restricted to owning property whch is used for professional business. This could exclude pure rental property, but allow ownership of “plant and equipment”.

Now depending on that, CRA may see Franks move as only a way to avoid corporate tax and disallow it.

Frank – I trust you’ve checked both

#190 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 8:40 pm

Smoking Man is OK by me.

#191 Dan in Victoria on 05.25.11 at 8:58 pm

guido @ 174
Try to get hired into a camp job.
Borelias at Suncor isn’t too bad…. make sure green is your favorite colour though.
They do everthing for you except laundry.
You just have to get up in the morning and get on the bus.
My buddy is paying 2600 a month for rent (hes not in camp.)
Drives truck and makes about 10K a month lots of OT.

Good luck up there Rhonda if you have a plan and stick too it you’ll do fine.
Couple of my friends are still there after 8 years cause they bought all the trucks etc.
Still paying ….fools.

#192 Rhonda on 05.25.11 at 9:09 pm

@ Dan in Victoria
Thanks :) Liked your last comment, sorta got a laugh outta that one. Ya know, those people who are still here, bought all those things will probably end up being lifers up here possibly because they are so caught up in debt they won’t be able to afford to ever leave. I noticed that shortly after coming here in 2005 when UE 1 was starting up….it seemed like there were a lot of people who had their money spent before they even made it. Just hope your friend doesn’t fall into that trap, seriously.

#193 BondGuy on 05.25.11 at 9:15 pm

In #160, JohnnyBGood wrote:
“That said, this only scratches the surface anyway. The 10% reserve ratio (or whatever it actually is for given accounts) is only the official ratio. Today, banks have a number of ways of getting around reserve requirements, so they can do more and more with less and less, and leverage up to the stratosphere.”

If you actually looked at how Canadian banks operate, they do not have any required reserves. So according to your understanding, the Canadian banks could have infinitely large balance sheets!

Too bad that bank capital rules exist, which is why this balance sheet expansion does not happen.

#194 SMOKING MAN on 05.25.11 at 9:17 pm

#176 Daystar on 05.25.11 at 6:44 pm

Yes I know my opinions don’t come with hard facts, Go to my profile on the globe and mail the first thing I say Male, Age: 52, from: Dyslexic side of the moon
About Me:
I am insane……:)Do not go to my blog, you are not allowed.
http://dyslexicsmokingman.blogspot.com/ and I only post there maybe once a month, I’m lazy too.
You see I can’t spell, grammar sucks, very short attention span, un schooled, narcissistic and extremely dyslexic. Yet I have been predicting markets and trends perfectly for the last ten years and have made a fortune doing it.
I absorb info all day long into the sub conscious, make a living day trading, and a bit of free lance software development, When I focus on something in my head I zone out big time example I nearly killed my self at Ceasers casino in Windsor on the weekend, was not drunk at the time and I walk down onto the up elevator, should have seen that recovery, the buggers switched the direction of the elevators over night.
This zoning out, drifting, not over thinking is incredible I would write a book on it but I can’t right.
The main reason I post here is because its fun, and Garth’s writing skills and stories are awesome just the way he puts things. To me it’s like I have no legs and are watching a man do a marathon whishing I had legs to race him. He also keeps history, so in a few years when you go back to my predications you will see what I am talking about, as I have amazed folks on the globe and mail over the years.
And it’s good for you bubble heads too because in the very few times I am wrong you can all collectively mock and mob me, revenge feels good.
But until I am wrong, don’t ask me for facts, I only work on feelings, and what the little voice inside my head says.

#195 Utopia on 05.25.11 at 9:22 pm

#186 Ottawan wrote……

“Utopia, A response to your bullying posts to Big Leb”.
____________________________________________

Bullying? Are you kidding me. I am simply calling his claims to account. Have you not noticed he never responded?

He never will either.

Do you have any idea how many people out there on the internet in the Gold/Silver camp dump ridiculous claims every single day about the 3, 6 and 10 thousand year history of gold with no evidence whatsoever?

No? Well I am not surprised you did not notice.

It is all nonsense of course. I make no bones about discrediting bad information when I see it. Also, please don’t misunderstand me because I do in fact enjoy many posts from TheBigLebowski and agree he often has many valid points.

Good posts too and if you want to know I agree with many of his points. Gold is a good investment right now. Very good actually.

I am just repulsed by nonsense and fabrications and he knows he laid some eggs yesterday. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER OF A SIX THOUSAND YEAR HISTORY OF GOLD. Period, end of the discussion.

In context, there is hardly even good evidence of the true intrinsic value of Gold prior to the Great Depression.

We can hardly even make claims based on the results and returns of one single mining company over the period of the Thirties that (while exceptional in it’s time) is hardly a hard and fast rule. Lebowski knows that well and is quiet for that reason.

All I ask is that posters stick to facts and don’t offer information that is manipulative in their benefit of the current market they are biased towards. The markets they participate in daily.

Lebowski is big on Gold. OK. Good for him. That is not justification to sway others with fabrications and pump them up through the wisdom of false information.

And just so you know, I have held cuneiform tablets in my hands, can read old Hebrew with ease, have seen documents on Papyrus and read the crude English translations. Nothing I have seen is valid to ascribing past or ancient time values to the world we now live in. Nothing. Get it? It is different worlds altogether and different times. So lets stop with the BS.

Others bullshit. I will not blow extra smoke up your arse.

#196 Rebel without a House on 05.25.11 at 10:43 pm

@17 Elmer

You do realize some of those “old people” spent five or so decades working, right? My grandparents didn’t take out a half million dollar loan to buy their semi in East York; they saved up, THEN bought it. My grandparents choose to remain in their neighbourhood because it’s their home. They rented a place for over 10 years then bought a house down the street when they could afford it. 40 years on the same street. Sorry your commute is long, but it ain’t their fault. Staying in their ‘hood isn’t too much to ask for a lifetime of work and trivial little stuff like WWII.

Keep in mind if prices are unaffordable it’s not my grandparents generation that caused the mess. Hell, it’s not even the boomers fault. Mortgages are just a new term for “indentured servitude”… the boomers might have laid out the bait, but it’s the 25 year olds out there rushing to sign their own slave papers that keep the whole deck of cards from collapsing in on itself.

#197 Dan Gabriel on 05.25.11 at 10:51 pm

..Blackstone Group LP (BX) hired CIBC World Markets Inc. to sell 29 office buildings in Canada valued at about C$900 million ($921 million), aiming to capitalize on investor appetite for well-leased properties, according to two people with knowledge of the plan.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-23/blackstone-said-to-hire-cibc-to-market-921-million-of-offices-in-canada.html

#198 Nathan in Van on 05.25.11 at 11:43 pm

#179 randman

I am rolling my eyes quite hard right now. Grow up.

Also, do yourself a favor and stop reading Ayn Rand. Seriously.

#199 Nathan in Van on 05.25.11 at 11:48 pm

#179 randman

Wait … is ‘whoosie’ your attempt at writing the word ‘wussy’? Oh my.

#200 Jay Currie on 05.26.11 at 12:08 am

#21 Randis – The guy on China is dead right, if you turn an iron rice bowl upside down you get an iron bubble which will never burst…ever.

#201 Daystar on 05.26.11 at 2:52 am

#194 SMOKING MAN on 05.25.11 at 9:17 pm

Ok, fair enough, just ease ’em up on the women talk is all I ask.

#202 maxx on 05.26.11 at 9:45 am

#143 disciple on 05.25.11 at 2:00 pm

……80% of our Industry is owned by Chinese consortiums anyway, so if people are not buying Made In China products, we are in real doo-doo.

A shock, to be certain, however, I have been actively boycotting made in China products since the lead paint in kiddies toys stories broke. Evil! That was the last straw for me.

I go to second-hand shops for most household stuff- better quality and way better chances of finding things made anywhere (Canada, Europe, USA, Japan) but China.

…and as for supermarket garlic that seems only to come from China-I won’t even pick it up because I shudder thinking that it probably was farmed next to a paint or chemical factory (snow peas and other green stuff ares now also starting to slime their way into supermarkets- read your packaging friends! If the packaging is unclear, don’t buy.).

I’m not nor ever will be interested in enriching greedy, disrespectful, morally reprehensible and harmful enterprises….and China is at the top of my boycott list.

#203 disciple on 05.26.11 at 12:56 pm

maxx, please, enough with your racist rant. Stuff from China is made by Chinese slave labour for WESTERN corporations. In exchange for your future labour and taxes, your leaders (puppets for WESTERN corporations) have betrayed you by selling your wealth to the Chinese communists. You cannot win either way, except of course, if you change the system. Start today…

#204 disciple on 05.26.11 at 12:59 pm

Your future labour and taxes = BONDS. You are the commodity being traded on the exchanges. It’s time you understood this and got off the farm, fellow cattle. Join me…