When you least expect it

The note of disgust was evident in his voice late Saturday as he called with yet another report.

“This is the world we now live in,” he said, “and it is full of malicious destruction. All can say it that I am sorry.”

But of course it was not my webmaster’s fault that an attack of breathtaking ferocity and intensiveness has ripped apart this site and, as my defender characterized it, “penetrated not just to the bone, but to the bone marrow.” The site infrastructure in minutes had been reduced to a smoking, burned-out hulk. That it has been rescued, albeit with splints, surgical staples and a Hummer full of duct tape, is remarkable.

Some functions are alive. Some are not. I have yet to know if an archive of twelve thousand comments will be rescued, for example. Hopefully soon new comments will be accepted. Thank you for your patience.

Who did this? The nature of such attacks is that fingerprints do not survive. But some weeks ago I was threatened with a digital attack by one of the visitors to this site, who went ballistic after trying to secure a ticket for my event this Thursday night in Vancouver. He has a deep technology background. In fact, I know his name, IP address, place of employment and home phone number.

But enough said on that matter.

Over the coming few weeks I will be visiting a few places, and would be honoured if you would join me. My topic will be this situation we are all in, and what comes next.

Vancouver
Thursday September 16, 7 pm, Four Seasons downtown. Register here.

Vancouver
Friday September 17, 6 pm, North Vancouver, private event.

Kamloops
Saturday September 18, 2 pm, Convention Centre. Register here.

Kelowna
Sunday September 19, 2 pm, Coast Capri Hotel, Register here.

Saskatoon
Tuesday September 21, 7 pm, TCU place. Register here.

Toronto
Wednesday September 29, 7 pm, North Toronto. Registration to come.

Wolfville NS
Tuesday October 5, 7 pm, Ken-Wo Golf Club. Register here.

Lunenburg
Wednesday October 6, 7 pm, Fisheries Museum. Register here.

Halifax
Thursday October 7, 7 pm, Ashburn Gold Club. Register here.

Victoria
Wednesday October 13, 7 pm, McPherson Playhouse. Registration to come.

Kelowna
Thursday October 14, 7 pm, Rotary Arts Centre. Register here.

Surrey
Friday October 15, 7 pm, Northview Golf Club. Register here.

190 comments ↓

#1 S.B. on 09.11.10 at 8:21 pm

A company with heavy Vancouver RE exposure is Wall Financial Corp., via hotels, condos and rentals in the area. Symbol is WFC, trading on the TSX.

Their latest report states as below. See, even the pros are hoping for a revival that may never occur.

“Wall Centre False Creek Approvals are in place to develop this 4-tower project across the streetfrom the 2010 Olympic Athlete’s Village. This project was placed on hold in January 2009 due to a lack of sufficient pre-sales. We are in the midst of re-designing the typical floor plan to create smaller and more affordable units while negotiating with the City for increased height and
density. If we are successful in our negotiations, we expect to re-launch a pre-sales campaign in October 2010.”

#2 S.B. on 09.11.10 at 8:21 pm

Squamish duplex listing I’ve seen — apparently, no more greater fools exist in the area!

Straight from this link:

Original Price: $424,900
Previous Price: $409,000

Now listed at: $394,900

http://agentjazz.ca/41883-FAITH-Road-Brackendale-mylistings-12977312.property

#3 Contrarian on 09.11.10 at 8:22 pm

Do you know why the attack was carried out ?

#4 late starter on 09.11.10 at 8:34 pm

Still haven’t heard from the Organizers, in Vancouver, hope to hear soon. I would like to be there.

Just come. — Garth

#5 mab on 09.11.10 at 8:42 pm

Remember when about 5 years ago ‘flip this house’ type shows started to appear on tv and they just kept coming expanding into DIY (how to make your house beautiful in order to sell it, etc.). Well, a few years later the peak in the housing market (atleast in the US) happened, 2005-2007.

Guess what … now look at the type of tv shows that are just starting to appear on stations like Slice in Toronto. “Till Debt Do Us Part” I believe was the first one and has been running for atleast a year but now there is a 2nd one called “Princess” and 2 more in the works “Til Debt Do Us Part: Baby Edition” and “Til Debt Do Us Part: Home Edition”. All shows deal with how out of control people’s spending is and how much debt they will have if they don’t control it.

I figure in about 1-2 years we will be knee deep in the ‘debt’ disaster and these type of shows will be the norm with more being introduced.

#6 paleobotanist on 09.11.10 at 8:44 pm

Dear Garth

Why are you slighting Regina? We feel very hurt in flatland. Visit us too!

Is Weyburn close enough? — Garth

#7 squidly77 on 09.11.10 at 8:45 pm

Do you know why the attack was carried out ?

Ill take a wild guess and say that the pumpers are reaching their desperation point, the point of no return, the point of bankruptcy, the point of denying the common man a place to read and post a common mans opinion.

These people are not nice, some are crooks and cons hell bent on relieving YOU of your money, Canadian real estate investors are not just your Timmy drinking Canuck next door neighbour, they come from all parts of the world linked to us by a global banking system.

And some of them are dangerous, avoid buying Canadian real estate, this is now a multi hundred billion dollar game.

When investors ? or the crooked side start losing big money, be careful out there.

#8 Shawn Hey on 09.11.10 at 8:50 pm

I am not surprised by this type of malicious activity, given the accuracy of your predictions finally coming to fruition. Many powerful developers and real estate pimps must be getting crushed by now and you are an easy target as the excuse.
The destruction of Canadian Real Estate is inevitable and the lessons of our neighbours to the south have been largely unheaded due to denial and continued pressure from the parties that stand to gain from herd behaviours.
I look from the balcony of my rented apartment at the thousands of roof tops of snobby Northwestern Londoners and thank my lucky stars that I am no longer a home owner. Oh what horrors await the unaware.
No rent increase in 5 years, no utility bills, no property taxes, no maintenance costs, no interest resets, and no worries! Lucky Me!!
Thank You Garth for your guidance and wisdom.

Your Day of Glory is finally here – Go ahead and Gloat my friend – you have earned it!

#9 Joel Brico on 09.11.10 at 8:51 pm

Keep up the great work! This attack is means your message is being heard. Unlike when you were elected … no party whip to (attempt) muzzle you.

#10 John on 09.11.10 at 8:57 pm

It sucks when it happens but a proper site backup regimen can make events like these a mere nuisance rather than catastrophe. The way you tell the story. i.e not knowing if your archive is ok, tells me its time for you to make your Business Continuity Plan.

#11 Timing is Everything on 09.11.10 at 8:58 pm

Hey Garth….

Illegitimus non carborundum ;)

#12 $froma$ia on 09.11.10 at 8:59 pm

But some weeks ago I was threatened with a digital attack by one of the visitors to this site, who went ballistic after trying to secure a ticket for my event this Thursday night in Vancouver. He has a deep technology background. In fact, I know his name, IP address, place of employment and home phone number.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sad, this guys got to have the smallest balls on the planet.

#13 caesarcaesar on 09.11.10 at 9:10 pm

“””it was not my webmaster’s fault that an attack of breathtaking ferocity and intensiveness has ripped apart this site and, as my defender characterized it, “penetrated not just to the bone, but to the bone marrow.” The site infrastructure in minutes had been reduced to a smoking, burned-out hulk. That it has been rescued, albeit with splints, surgical staples and a Hummer full of duct tape, is remarkable.”””

Oh Garth you are so melodramatic.

You pulled the plug out, waited a minute or two, then you put the plug back in so you could come up with some “poor me” syndrome story.

#14 Dan on 09.11.10 at 9:20 pm

I believe out of work realtor(s) made an attack on this blog since the the RE market is CRASHING and CRASHING HARD!. We blogers need to spread the truth all over the internet until those realtor pumpers are on the street homeless since many of them are indebt to their eyeballs and need to make a sale. It’s so sad sales have crashed listings are up and prices are falling.

POP…………………..What was that?

a) the housing bubble
b) a realtors head exploding after reading garths blog
c) all of the above

#15 Boombust on 09.11.10 at 9:22 pm

So, Kristallnacht for this blog.

Things are getting ugly.

#16 45north on 09.11.10 at 9:26 pm

CentOS that’s what I have! I don’t know much about Word Press or MySQL

penetrated not just to the bone, but to the bone marrow.

hmm, then it wasn’t just a Denial-of-Service

sounds like he got your password

that’s bad

10,000 comments times 2000 bytes each is 20 million bytes, easiest backup up would be mysqldump

LVM snapshots would be overkill

#17 Bill Gable on 09.11.10 at 9:28 pm

I wouldn’t put it past the attackers of this noble site to have some very nefarious plans. There are traces left of visitors to this and every other site, and certain factions might like to know who thinks, er, what, if you catch my drift.

I find it reprehensible that anyone would be chicken instep enough to pillage this site, plus destroy a lot of hard work put in by Mr. Turner – and to what end?

Afraid of the truth>?

Don’t like the fact that, love him or hate him, that Mr. Turner speaks his mind?

Don’t like hearing that we are Mad as HELL and a lot of us aren’t gonna take it anymore?

Cheesed that some people are waking up to the con?

Tough.

We aren’t going anywhere.

We blog dogs stick together.

Don’t believe me? Just wait.

Just wait.

#18 Chaos on 09.11.10 at 9:32 pm

When do you know that you’ve hit the BIG Time?

I guess that would be when somebody burns your site to the ground.

Keep the faith G-man.

“The Wreck of the Sir John A. MacDonald”, is on standby.

#19 Derek on 09.11.10 at 9:36 pm

Good to see you back online. Don’t worry too much about the lost comments. They deal with the past. And how to deal with the present and the future is what most of us are interested in. So keep on sharing your valuable perspective and useful advice on those topics and we’ll keep reading and responding.

#20 Jody on 09.11.10 at 9:39 pm

The attacker could also be someone who does not like free speech. Although Garth moderates the comments he lets lots of people speak their minds about lots of different things, something that is becoming very rare as government and copyright buttheads amp up the “War Against Words.” I have learnt a lot from not only Garth, but the peole who comment here, real estate humpers aren’t the only people who don’t like people becoming educated. I’d add government at all levels and various corporate interests. Why can’t hackers ever target Revenue Canada and make them lose all their information? Or the private e-mail account of Nancy Pelosi?

#21 West Coast on 09.11.10 at 9:39 pm

You know you’re doing something right when this sort of thing happens to your website.

Good on you Garth.

#22 Julian on 09.11.10 at 9:40 pm

Hey Garth! Love your blog. Found this great game…pretty well consistent with everything you have been saying, and it’s funny as he**. Cheers!

http://www.crackshackormansion.com/

#23 Mister Obvious on 09.11.10 at 9:43 pm

Garth… Please accept my sympathies concerning the vicious attack on your site. For the last few weeks or so, as desperation levels have risen, I’ve half expected such a thing might occur. Many are ready to blame factions of the vested interests who wish to keep the RE pumping party going way, way past midnight. Maybe, but I doubt it. Never attribute to organized political forces that which can be accomplished by a single obsessed coward. See you Thursday.

#24 jed on 09.11.10 at 9:46 pm

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2010/09/11/overseas-investors-the-commonwealth-bank/

when the largest bank in australia is fudging figures in investor presentations regarding the property bubble, there is clearly much to lose.

one lone nut? or someone working on behalf of others, the fact they’re trashing servers shows they’re scared their propaganda isn’t working any longer.

#25 Herb on 09.11.10 at 9:49 pm

Jeeze, Garth, you sure were missed yesterday. I was so desperate I almost wound up talking to my wife!

Things sure are different in Ottawa. Wife and a friend have been checking the market for a couple of months to determine a suitable price for the place the friend wants to sell to downsize. One “comparable” was listed at $425,000. Two months later it’s still listed, but at a “new price” of $379,900.

And when are you finally going to stop this discrimination and lay down a little common sense in the Nation’s Capital?

#26 FerrisWheel on 09.11.10 at 10:04 pm

Hey Garth,

I brought this up a couple of times. Why don’t you visit Montreal? La belle Province. Trust we don’t bite.

I’d love to attend one of your gatherings.

Hope to see you here one day.

Ciao,
FerrisWheel

#27 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.10 at 10:06 pm

Read in the Ottawa citizen today, something along the lines of:

“According to Stats Canada, throughout the recession, Canada lost 417,000 jobs. Since that time, we have regained those jobs and are now at the highest level of employment ever.”

Positive news for the housing market, perhaps?

#28 nibs on 09.11.10 at 10:07 pm

Sorry to hear about your crappy luck Garth. Are you looking into legal options or would that be a waste of time?

When you’re out in Vancouver, point them to this post debunking the ‘Hot Asian Money’ story.

http://financialinsights.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/the-hot-asian-money-fallacy/

#29 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 09.11.10 at 10:12 pm

“When you least expect it, that is when takedowns of all sorts occur.”

The interruption of your site reminded me of just how actually vulnerable we all are to unknown forces, and that is what is happening with the present fiscal takedown.

But you obviously do have a great back-up team of techies who know their stuff. Did you ever think of hiring Dilbert and Wally? They’re also top-notch!
*
#36 TheBigLebowski on 09.10.10 at 4:17 am — Thanks. Good article — I was going to link to it, but Garth’s site had a nuclear morph, so it wasn’t up for the task at hand, but it’s good that you stepped in.

There is a helluva lot more noise happening constantly now, close to us and on this continent that the authorities (obviously) won’t let on.

Chances are that TPTB already have everyone’s IP addresses, our home addresses and phone / cell #’s nicely tucked away somewhere and spying on us.

That’s what drones, HAARP, the CERN Hadron Collider and plenty of other things were invented for, but to all those goons, I repeat a much-oft quoted sentence from Monty Python:

“I fart in your general direction!” (in a pathetic French accent).

#41 Brian on 09.10.10 at 6:03 am — “. . . you could compare it to Cuba. They too have their own system, although Castro has been apologetic of late(Financial Post 09 Sept. 2010).”

Thanks. The only thing I can see is that Hitler was a hard, right-wing extremist and Castro is a (subdued) left-wing nutcase, whose brother is in line to succeed him shortly.

One connection is Obama, whose hero seems to be Karl Marx (left-wing). One other aspect is the three people mentioned ran / run their respective countries with military might at the forefront of their thinking.

From this perspective, politics doesn’t really count for much — as usual, they are / were following someone else’s orders.

Scroll down to the heading “S.510, the Trojan Horse . . .”. Global warming (Copenhagen) failed, now food is the latest weapon of choice.

Is there a connection between food and big pharma?

Hmmm. “Read those recommendations carefully. They implement the grand design of forcing all people to go through a banking system top conduct the commerce of daily life, with the bank getting a piece of the action every step of the way.

“The single most alarming recommendation is that since the Federal Reserve is locked into zero interest rates for large bankers, that public money should come with an expiration date, which means paying a fee for a re-authorization (usury by any other name) if it was kept too long and not spent!

“Where, oh where, is a leader with the strength and courage of a Jackson, or a Lincoln, or a Kennedy, who will end this private central bank as was done to its two equally destructive predecessors.” wrh.com.

Global Cooling The debate rages incessantly while the Titanic is quietly sinking.

Canada will be close behind, thanks to C-H-F.

Forty six second clip The Tsar Bomb — biggest thermo-nuke blast ever, a.k.a. the West taking a bow and exiting stage right!

Firestorm “A massive brown dwarf star is approaching our inner Solar System, exerting gravitational and electromagnetic influences upon the core, mantle, and crust of our planet. The closer this brown dwarf star comes to us, the larger and more widespread will be the resulting natural disasters.”

To go with the preceding, this — Did anyone realize this? I sure didn’t.

Laydeez un Gennulmen . . . Le Next Crash (shortly); and Lotsa fiscal / political BS.

Things are slowly becoming as clear as financial mud. Plus this.

#30 the commenter formerly known as... on 09.11.10 at 10:12 pm

really sucks about what happened to the website Garth. I was “Jonesing” for my Greater Fool fix the past couple days…glad you’re back up….Reminds me of the church on innovative thought circa 12th century….someone doesn’t like that you are enlightening the masses….

anywho, I signed up for the Surrey seminar…I’d be honored to be in your presence…can we buy beers there?…’cause that’s what us Surrey renters like to do when out socializing..

The wife wants to get a good look at this man that says he “specializes in wives” lol

#31 john m on 09.11.10 at 10:19 pm

Sorry about the problems with your site Garth..quite a cowardly act but something which i guess could be expected considering the character of the individuals who got our country in the mess it is in.

#32 JSP on 09.11.10 at 10:25 pm

Funniest thing Garth, I went to an open house on Douglas St today in Toronto and the agent was telling anyone that would listen that the market in Toronto isn’t going soft and that Garth Turner’s talk of real estate doom and gloom is over done. Who would have thought an agent would care what you say and felt the need to calm down prospective buyers? For the record, the house was an over priced crap hole that needed way too much work and smelled of mold, so I guess he felt insecure about the sh??t he was selling…unbelievable…

Man, when will people wake up and stop paying three quarters of million dollars for these fully depreciated structures…??? It feels as though there are a number never ending idiots out there…

#33 vreaa on 09.11.10 at 10:27 pm

Five Charts: Predicting Future Vancouver Housing Prices

http://wp.me/pcq1o-1fX

#34 Arjo Soer on 09.11.10 at 10:29 pm

I feel for your cyber site attack been attacked once myself and could not understand why somebody would be so malicious as to destroy somebody else’s work – just boggles the mind.

I hope that you have backups which you can use to get your comments back. If not I can help you in scrapping the comments from Google Cache.

Drop me an email if you need help.

#35 concessionman on 09.11.10 at 10:30 pm

F did it…got tired of you slamming him and put his government tech nerds to work…

or it was random, and your webmaster hadn’t been installing the frequent security patches issued by Microsoft (assuming your blogs hosted under IIS) to address known vulnerabilities, and he got caught with his pants down. Either way, he should have daily if not hourly backups (ideally offsite) of your entire database, so if any you did lose more than a day I’d be looking for a new webmaster..(you have always spoken highly of him but iirc the sites been down at least 3 times this year…)

#36 604genX on 09.11.10 at 10:37 pm

Your prediction for the ramp-up of listings in September is looking correct. Here’s the latest stats for Greater Vancouver (daily MLS sales on another blog run by agents).

http://vancouvercondo.info/forum/topic/september-data

This should rattle the mob on Thursday.

Our baby-sitter is booked and we’ll be at the show.

While crashing a server is pretty easy (I think), most agents aren’t sharp enough to do it. I reckon it is some over-leveraged seller trying to bail out and getting very pissed off as the market unfolds as you predicted. This is probably just the tip of the ice berg of the abuse you’ll get. Maybe pull a Gahdaffi and surround yourself with a brigade of hottie bodyguards. It would fulfill one of your favourite passions – tax avoidance (you can expense it after the server attack fiasco – its a legitimate expense, and what better revenge?).

#37 Debtfree on 09.11.10 at 10:37 pm

Was it O.J. ?????

#38 Keith in Calgary on 09.11.10 at 10:42 pm

One of my friends is a bankruptcy lawyer in a multi-million population US city.

25% of his business comes from one occupation alone.

Yep…….you guessed it.

Former real estate agents.

Keep up the good work Garth……….I’m gonna start referring to you as……..”Garth the Impaler”……..

#39 garthfan on 09.11.10 at 10:44 pm

Jeeperz on having to call in the squirrel brigade. Maybe I should just send you a jar of jam anyhow? Life is too short, eh!

#40 Sam on 09.11.10 at 10:46 pm

Hey Garth – a few words on computer security.

It may take an IT genius to figure out how to take down a site.

It normally does NOT require a genius to do the attack once the vulnerability is known. Most of these attackers are called “script kiddies” in the computer security industry.

These folks find out how to do the attack from a published paper or from word of mouth, or even just downloading a program that does everything for them at the press of an “OK” button with a mouse.

If a serious IT guy threatened a specific attack and that’s the attack that then took the site down, it may have been him.

#41 Tom on 09.11.10 at 10:48 pm

Garth,
are you arranging to have some media at the event to get the word out to counteract the pro-housing spin? (If there is any unbiased media…maybe the Georgia Straight?)

#42 Cameroni on 09.11.10 at 10:55 pm

This is a very regrettable incident and all I can say, Garth, is that I am sorry it has happened.

An attack like this though is probably not totally surprising in some respects. Repercussions can be expected when you shake the big trees. You never know what will fall out of it.

Still, it crosses the bounds of reason and acceptable behaviour as both a vindictive and malicious act. It must be an illegal act too. I have no idea how you might remedy this kind of vandalism though.

Hopefully you have taken the trouble to keep a backup of all your work and files (and all of the thousands of contributions). Today’s news from you is discouraging to say the least.

I doubt your hypothesis that it originated from a disgruntled person who could not get a ticket though. That is not to say I doubt you but rather that I believe that any cyber-attack that has done the amount of permanent damage you are suggesting has likely originated from a high level and has been organized, enabled or facilitated by those with intimate knowledge of your site and it’s weaknesses or they have access through your provider.

In other words, you pissed off someone with the power to put you out of business, albeit temporarily.

“They” may not be strong enough to rewrite history but if they can destroy a large part of the body of a written legacy on your site, the impact can be the same.

Let’s hope your IT guys can catch the Perps.

#43 Ken on 09.11.10 at 10:58 pm

Keep up the good work Mr. Turner your blog is interesting and enlightning compared to all the propaganda in the media that we are subjected to. I imagine you have assisted many many people in making a rational decision in these difficult times.

#44 Dan on 09.11.10 at 11:00 pm

Two words: Offsite Backup

#45 ken on 09.11.10 at 11:04 pm

Keep up the good work,you are the best.

#46 BBC on 09.11.10 at 11:04 pm

The truth always finds away!!! Let’s hope it sets us free….debt free.

#47 goldenfox on 09.11.10 at 11:05 pm

Somebody here was recently tooting his horn for the deflationist Bob Precter. I remember when gold was $300 and he said it was going to $200. When this prediction was scoffed at, he said he would buy gold at $400. When it reached this level, he backtracked and said he would buy at $460. Well here we are at $1247 gold and Bob still has not bought gold and is still saying gold is going to $200. Talk about a stubborn loser. And people still listen to this guy. Although there is no such thing as a sure thing, I think it is a good bet that gold will be $2000 by this time next year. All deflationists have been dead wrong the last 50 years and have lost their shirts betting on it. Thats why a $ today will only purchase 80% of what it would of bought in 1980 or 2% in 1930. The fed is printing $ to buy treasuries and the stockmarket. Sure houses are deflating, but their prices are still inflated. My house is worth $300,000 and if it drops 30% to $210,000 it still is up 600% from what I paid for it 30 years ago at a price of around $30,000. My portfolio of gold and silver is up 25% so far this year for a total of 780% since i switched 10 years ago. Now thats inflation.

#48 Patz on 09.11.10 at 11:16 pm

#25 Herb, “I almost wound up talking to my wife.” Too effin’ funny!

Funny (in not a ha ha sense) I was just musing to myself that the closer Garth gets to the bone the more they want to throw mud/shit at him. The example I was thinking of was the recent Bill Good show mentioned by several here, where BG said he wouldn’t have Garth on because “he lacked credibility.” Some journalist. If he knew anything at all he would realize that Garth was nailing it. However it seems to be CKNW station policy to promote RE, so as the philosopher said, “Whater ya gonna do?”

#49 John_2008 on 09.11.10 at 11:23 pm

Just as my wife said last night, “There’s nothing new on that site, why do you keep reading?”

#50 Calgary Rip Off on 09.11.10 at 11:25 pm

Saw your site had gone down. Thought you had cancelled it cause somebody had threatened you. Glad you are alright.

Keep up your work. You are a great role model.

#51 Dean on 09.11.10 at 11:26 pm

I wouldn’t read too much into the attack, it’s entirely probable that it’s just random dummies just exploiting some security vulnerability.

#52 Devore on 09.11.10 at 11:27 pm

It’s amazing how we put so much of our life on the internet and computers, always believing since it’s always there, that is always will be. How many people have their only copy of a picture on Facebook or Flicker, or burnt onto some $.10 DVD destined to become a coaster in under 5 years?

Make secure copies of everything you care about.

As for this hacker, clearly an immature child. If he was actually malicious with an agenda, he’d have defaced it and locked you out, instead of just hitting the big delete button in some adolescent rage to feel better about himself.

#53 LB on 09.11.10 at 11:32 pm

Interesting that the blog that was generating the most specific information and discussion so far on how individuals can generate their own mortgages to circumvent the conventional, institutional ones,and which also questioned the premise that real estate is a smart investment AT ALL anymore, while pondering “outside the box” alternatives, was also the one that precipitated this attempt to shut it down.

No matter.The truth can’t be shut down – it will always rise, unrestrained, from the collective conscious and continued shared voices of all of us. Carry on.

#54 cindy on 09.11.10 at 11:37 pm

Garth,
When will be your next event in Calgary?

#55 dark sad person on 09.11.10 at 11:45 pm

Can’t believe it–

A form of life-lower than even a Goldbug–crawled up from the sewer-
Getten weird out there–i tell ya-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_GaHtOepEQ&feature=related

#56 Devore on 09.12.10 at 12:02 am

#1 S.B.

We are in the midst of re-designing the typical floor plan to create smaller and more affordable units

That’s what we need, smaller shoeboxes. All the new condos are already tiny with crappy “lifestyle” floor plans. There is no reason condos have to be so expensive, it’s only compliance to the prevailing price per sqft that’s setting prices. It simply does not cost $900/sqft including land to build a condo.

#57 JM in London on 09.12.10 at 12:09 am

Well well – Nice and cowardly this attack.

Personal against Garth or against the dawgs & our debates raging across the pages, doesn’t matter a whit.

Funny thing about the dawgs, we’re a loyal bunch.

Those responsible accomplished little other than to prove shear cowardice – full stop.

#58 kanata squirel on 09.12.10 at 12:29 am

Hey garth,

Send me an e-mail if you want a.security, backup and recovery review of your service provider – sounds like you need much more than a webmaster.

#59 pez on 09.12.10 at 12:29 am

i am very sorry about what happened to your system. It is a rotten feeling to have something so personal to you be violated by some jerk. However, can the histrionics, most of you are damn well paranoid enough. You aren’t being monitored by some evil superpower looking to suppress your free speech. I am sure the hack was perpetrated by some random, loser computer nerd who lives in his parents basement who found a loop hole somewhere.

Real estate agents are bottom feeders, but they too stupid to know how to turn on a computer, let alone orchestrate a serious breech.

#60 Jeannie on 09.12.10 at 12:31 am

Garth, I’m not surprised that this has happened. After all, you’re a very dangerous man. Think of the hundreds of Bloggers who have refused to play the Real Estate game, because of your blog. Then there’s your cross-Canada
FREE seminars spreading the same message, tut tut, you
are a tremendous threat to someone..the question is, who?

#61 pez on 09.12.10 at 12:32 am

BTW Dan #14

prices are crashing hard? they are down a whopping 0.1%…

dont POP to champagne just yet…

#62 Jeff Smith on 09.12.10 at 12:32 am

Glad this site is back up. I was already experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

With that kind of duration, it appeared to be some kind of denial of service attack.

#63 Off-Gridder on 09.12.10 at 12:48 am

Well Garth I must admit I did give some bankers this site when arguing with them about their views the market would forever grow and grow… Sorry =D Hope things are back and restored soon. Waiting to learn things from your next new post!!! Boo Hackers!

#64 MS on 09.12.10 at 12:50 am

Probably another script kiddie and his botnet. you can buy time on botnets and turn their guns onto websites if you know the right people. very lame.

#65 Makaya on 09.12.10 at 12:56 am

Garth,

Below is a 2005 article about RE in the US. It’s really interesting to read about the propaganda at that time and make a parallel with what we can hear in Canada these days. The CEO of Remax said “Does anyone really think housing – in any market – is going to lose 60 per cent of its value?” and “Current conditions simply underscore the fact that buying a home remains one of the smartest, surest things a family can do to enhance its present and secure its future. And that, in the face of all the media’s bubble-based hand wringing, is what we can, and should, point out to our clients, colleagues and friends.”…

Here is the complete article:

Bursting the bubble myth By Bruce Benham, Chief Operating Officer of RE/MAX International, Inc. July 29, 2005

We’re all aware of the dramatic headlines proclaiming the inevitable “housing bubble” that will reportedly cripple the real estate industry, and the entire U.S. economy, when it eventually bursts. But you know better. And I hope your clients do too. The alleged bubble, rooted in fears created during the dot-com aftermath of the early 2000s, is a media-manufactured myth. It’s based on the projected collapse of a national housing market that simply doesn’t exist.

It’s a misnomer. Period. My position matches that of U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow, who offered his in an interview on Bloomberg Radio April 26th. “I don’t think the evidence suggests there is a national housing bubble at all,” Snow said. “Housing prices are high in some markets but those markets are supported by underlying demand and supply considerations. It’s really a misnomer, I think, to talk about bubbles in the sense that you get a stock market bubble or a bubble in the commodity markets.”

Part of the bubble premise is that prices have escalated to a point where homeownership is unreachable for most families. But that’s clearly not the case; people are buying and selling homes at an unprecedented pace. According to the National Association of Realtors®, March 2005 generated the third-highest seasonally adjusted annual rate of existing home sales in history. The only two months topping March’s rate of 6.89 million homes were June 2004 (7.02 million) and November 2004 (6.98 million). Home sales remain strong despite changes in price. “We still have more buyers than sellers in most parts of the country,” David Lereah, NAR’s chief economist, said in late April. “There is a strong demand for housing from a growing population.”
Second home flurry
Demand is fueled by many factors, including a constant influx of immigrant families as well as affluent baby boomers purchasing second homes as they approach retirement. NAR’s 2005 “Profile of Second-Home Buyers” reported that second homes accounted for 38 per cent of the existing housing stock and 36 per cent of all homes purchased in 2004. What’s more, many in this massive group of 75 million people have the wealth – much of it generated through the appreciation of the long held homes in which they raised their families – to help their children enter the housing market. These purchases are financed by mortgage rates that may seem high compared to a year ago, but remain extremely attractive by the standards of past decades.

While bubble theorists point to the Federal Reserve’s 2004 benchmark rate increases as a sign of hard times to come, you’d sound fairly ridiculous explaining the dangers of a six per cent rate to a time-traveling homeowner from the early 1980s who paid 16 per cent on his or her mortgage. According to Freddie Mac chief economist, Frank Nothaft, only one in seven current mortgages carries a rate above seven per cent, so even if fairly significant hikes emerge down the road, the current lending climate continues to be a boom, and not a strain, for today’s homeowners. It’s no secret that prices in many markets have grown quite high. And those markets may soften as local supply catches up with demand. But is that the same as a “housing bubble”? To me, the word “bubble” goes far beyond reality, evoking thoughts of the Nasdaq stock exchange losing 60 per cent of its value. Does anyone really think housing – in any market – is going to lose 60 per cent of its value?
A local issue
The prices in one state, of course, are not tied to those in others. Real estate remains a local concern, with activity and price fluctuations driven much more by variances in demand than on what’s happening in a faraway state or a non-existent “national market.” It’s our job to educate clients that despite what they read and hear about skyrocketing prices in California or Florida, their situation ultimately boils down to the prices of homes bought and sold in their own neighbourhood. The media focus on the extremes. The bubbleologists’ favourite example is San Francisco, where the 2004 median price climbed above $629,000. But while many other cities have experienced similar multiyear climbs, the median price in most remains under $200,000. Do higher-than-before values put homeowners in peril? If they’ve taken a prudent buy-and-hold approach and lived in their homes for any length of time, probably not. Even if their local market softens, most homeowners still benefit greatly from their decision to buy, despite any price-related anxiety they felt when they made their purchase. Current conditions simply underscore the fact that buying a home remains one of the smartest, surest things a family can do to enhance its present and secure its future. And that, in the face of all the media’s bubble-based hand wringing, is what we can, and should, point out to our clients, colleagues and friends.

#66 Duane Storey on 09.12.10 at 1:33 am

Happens to the best blogs from time to time!

Once you’re up and running again you guys should check out vaultpress – http://vaultpress.com/.

It’s a real-time backup and restoration service by the guys who wrote WordPress meant to protect against this type of scenario.

#67 rickster-bc on 09.12.10 at 1:46 am

As John alluded to, a blog as valuable as this should have automated backups to one or more secure locations. I would suggest this going forward. You wouldn’t lose any content (well, maybe just a handful of the most recent comments) and you’d be back up and running in minutes. The attackers would just give up . . .

#68 Devore on 09.12.10 at 1:56 am

VREAA doing some charting of the Vancouver market.

I would agree with the update (scenario 6) that, in the western world anyways, the last 25-40 years have been a historical aberration, with monetary expansion, manipulation, speculation, inflation, financial engineering/terrorism, market distortions and bubbles in all assets following the termination of the international gold standard aka Bretton Woods, which pegged currencies to the dollar, which itself was fixed to gold.

With so much tugging at the system, how can anyone predict where we’ll end up at, except more of the same: uncertainty and great volatility, as big money pours from one asset to another at the drop of a hat. And the little people stuck in the middle, unable to benefit from any of it.

#69 The Original Dave on 09.12.10 at 1:58 am

oh, thank goodness for the Sept 29th date in Toronto. The pressure is mounting on me. Wife feels we’re throwing money away by renting and this ideology is being reinforced by family members.

I’ll be counting down the days. Thanks G Man.

#70 Ghost of Tom Joad on 09.12.10 at 2:02 am

Garth, maybe the New World Order took down your website?

In tribute to the false flag attack of 9/11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

Alex Jones predicts 9/11 in July 2001.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Hk1-BpXO8

http://www.infowars.com

#71 Canayjun on 09.12.10 at 2:19 am

You really hit a nerve with your website. Too much reality. It’s almost as if they think if they destroy your website they will stop the inevitable decline in the RE market. There are so many people who stand to lose so much when this market reversal occurs, who obviously don’t understand that trying to stop it from happening is like trying to stop a runaway freight train. Don’t they realize if it could be stopped, the government would be doing so right now?

#72 CalgaryBoy on 09.12.10 at 2:41 am

That’s horrible!!! And doing it on the anniversary of 9/11, too!

Well, this person must know how powerful you are. Because if he / she didn’t believe in all your blog posts and thought they were false ideas and predictions, then he / she would’ve just left you alone.

Obviously this person feels threatened by your power!

Anyway, keep up the good work and letting the every day person know the TRUTH about the housing market and the economy!

#73 DavidL on 09.12.10 at 3:22 am

Garth, consider it a “rite of passage” to have your site hacked. You message about the crashing real estate market is obviously upsetting people. These people are trying to “shoot the messenger”.

Here’s some suggestions for your site admin on how they can “beef up” your site security:
[1] Only use SSH for terminal access and run it on an alternate port (instead of 22).
[2] Close all ports except 80 (HTTP) and SSH.
[3] Use YUM (on CentOS) to update nightly. Make sure Apache, OpenSSL, Bind, etc. all get patched.
[4] Run the database on a separate server behind a firewall that only accepts LAN connections.
[5] Consider getting your site professionally hosted by a company that can minimize DOS attacks, etc.

#74 Mike (Authentic) on 09.12.10 at 4:30 am

Glad to see the blog back in action yet again. A big round of applause to your tech team, to your dedication to the truth and to your resilience in the face of a cowardly attack.

Winston Churchill said it best which I feel it fitting for Garth, this blog and all it’s blog soldiers:

“You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.” – Winston Churchill

“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” – Winston Churchill

#75 bullion.bunny on 09.12.10 at 5:06 am

Too bad about your site…….most unfortunate. Anyway a funny thing happened on the way to work a few days ago. I came across a few old friends and we started talking, both of them said they are bullish on realestate! In addition both of them said they had pooled all their savings to purchase four condo units in a new square one development to be built in 2014. The comment was they could be flipped for a $100,000 profit by 2014.

The world has gone mad! People are still spending like mad with no thought about the future. This can only end one way……..BAD!

#76 Poeticsarc on 09.12.10 at 6:00 am

Comment #25
Agreed Garth, that you need to come to the nations capital and speak some sense.I’m sure it would be sold out within minutes.

#77 somecatchphrase on 09.12.10 at 6:40 am

Most of the RE pumper community (broadly defined) are still in denial/disbelief stage of the grieving process. Reality is beginning to intrude on their collective fantasy. After denial/disbelief, the next stage of the grieving process is anger. Perhaps this helps explain the motivations of those responsible for Garth’s recent technical problems?

I will leave you with a fantastic quote from the current posting over at Automatic Earth:

“Crises breed denial. Whether a crisis concerns an individual’s health, career or marriage, a company’s reputation or market share, or a nation’s place in the global pecking order, powerful incentives exist within the stricken entity to aspire to a return to normalcy – and to proceed as if that result represents the only option. However, as we all know from human experience, some setbacks are irreversible. We believe the recent meltdown suffered by the U.S. and its partners on the liberal side of the global economy is one of them. “

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
___________________________________

For anyone not familiar with the “stages of grief” model:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

#78 Brian on 09.12.10 at 6:40 am

Let us be wary now that a few bloggers won’t try to claim that their computers were attacked… as mine was as well. Oh, actually it was the hydro and the sattelite dish. But at the same time?

#79 SaraBeth on 09.12.10 at 6:41 am

#13 caesarcaesar on 09.11.10 at 9:10 pm

“caesarcaesar” ? Just whom is being overly dramatic, eh?

Garth ~ Forget the naysayers, you have given us all some valuable advice..and I for one truly appreciate it.
As for the twit that ruined your site, cowardly is just one word I would have for s/h/it.

#80 miketheengineer on 09.12.10 at 6:48 am

Garth:

Wondered what had happened….hope your back up disks work. Lots of info in those archieves.

Saw this yesterday while poking around on Steve Quayle’s web site. Too much of a co-incident not to post it. I personally think it is a bunch of poo, but none the less:

http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/10_Unrest/100902.Hawk.done.on.radio.html

In the report it says….

“Steve Q told of his source last week saying that after Labor Day the Red list in America was going to be worked on one way or the other with specific emphasis on Radio and TV hosts , as well as bloggers and web site owners.”

I wonder if Nostradamus le Mad “Dude” has anything on this as well…..could explain the attach.

The powers that be strike back….

#81 ChuckD on 09.12.10 at 6:50 am

Glad to see you are back in business. This is one of the sites I visit daily and I really enjoy your posts. As for the potentially lost comments I wouldn’t worry too much. I think the world will go on without having a digital record of a comment by some idiot written two years ago about people from Asia taking over their city etc etc etc.

#82 Ottawabound on 09.12.10 at 6:51 am

I believe all you have to do is set up a venue and invite Garth to Ottawa. I can get a place, Not sure how it works but will assume we charge a fee to pay your travel expenses? It would be fun to rent a room at the casino, it holds hundreds.

I am not a broker or financial planner so I have no vested interest if you come. Maybe wait for the next book and invite him at that time

#83 Brian on 09.12.10 at 6:51 am

Let us be wary now that other commentator don’t claim that their computers were attacked as well… as mine was. Oh, it was just the hydro.

#84 Brian on 09.12.10 at 6:56 am

Sorry about submitting twice. I used to get a moderation message before acceptance. Please disregard this and previous message but not the first.
Brian.

#85 Aussie Roy on 09.12.10 at 7:01 am

Great to see your site back up Garth. Please keep up the GREAT work.

Aussie Update

Well It saddens me to tell you all the great Aussie 105% housing loan is back, will we NEVER learn.
Please read comments on this story, its eye opening.

http://www.news.com.au/money/property/lenders-throwing-cash-at-buyers/comments-e6frfmd0-1225918973988

#86 bigrider on 09.12.10 at 7:17 am

Ok Garth. September 29th. T.O

I will try to bring as my guest(s) the son of one of the top three largest builders in York Region(possibly a second from another) also find two lead selling brokers for two different builders (1000+ and 1500+ homes/condos throughout GTA). I will be giving some of the tickets out to various others, ‘regular people’ as well.
There will be some ‘crotch scratching’ for sure , also expect poo pooing of your ideas, but the bikes will stay at home. If it looks a bit like a casting call for the Sopranos, don’t worry nobody carries guns.

I will try to introduce myself and these guys to you. If you do not wish it just reply here, but one thing is for sure , I need to get through to these guys that the brinks truck deliveries of money to the bank are coming to an end.

BTW -to all the people posting about the RE agents and builders getting financially whacked in this ‘RE Collapse” stop the exaggeration ,it’s silly and it does no one any good.

#87 Murray J Harris on 09.12.10 at 7:18 am

Amigos:
As one moves further from the GTA evidence of the deflation in real estate is more apparent. Our postal code is N4K 5N4, Owen Sound. On our road there are 79 properties, either water front or waterview. 13 are now for sale. 5 open houses yesterday. Many “reduced price” or “new price” signs. Even when properties are priced “correctly” they are not selling. Coming to your GTA neighbourhood soon.

#88 steven rowlandson on 09.12.10 at 7:22 am

Hello Garth.
Its good to see your site up and running again.
Hackers and virus programmers deserve the most severest of punishments for their offences.

Getting back to real estate I would be surprised if very many people recover from what is going on. Price and debt levels have been going up too far for too long to avoid the financial destruction that has arrived.
A global economic boom? Not in north america Garth.
Not untill all that debt gets paid off, costs of living go way down and stay down and people save large sums of money to invest in something productive.

Untill then I see very tough times for a while unless some how some people get very, very rich and have the resources to clean up the mess that was made by the powers that be and their greedy followers.
Guys like me have the answer but only if the banks co operate to make the solution work.

Steven

#89 Publius Enigma on 09.12.10 at 7:30 am

The two most likely scenarios are:

1) Your password, if weak, was likely harvested using social engineering.

2) You were exploited via an older version of WordPress.

There are always fingerprints. Just not on your server.

As has been politely suggested in the past, you need to upgrade your online infrastructure.

You’re almost mainstream now, after all.

I hope you manage to get everything restored in a timely manner. Best of luck.

#90 miketheengineer on 09.12.10 at 7:41 am

Garth et al:

True state of our US neighbors, and greatest trading partners….who says this economic slow down is now over….the party is just starting.

http://www.europe2020.org/spip.php?article652&lang=en

Here is the best part of the article:

the immediate environment of the vast majority of US citizens has not stopped worsening since 2008 whatever the statistics and Federal experts may say [9]. The true rate of unemployment is at least between 15% and 20% [10] and reaches 30% to 40% in the towns and regions which are the most badly affected by the crisis [11]. Never have so many Americans been dependant on Federal Government food stamps

#91 Jason on 09.12.10 at 8:10 am

Looks like you’re running on a WordPress install? There are a few great plugins to do scheduled backups of your database.

Also make sure you have the most recent version of WordPress and secure the install (just google ‘secure wordpress install’)

#92 DARLENE on 09.12.10 at 8:10 am

Garth

Your my favourite read and I love your pics, but man do you ever attract the nuts!

#93 T.O. Bubble Boy on 09.12.10 at 8:18 am

@ #82 ChuckD:

Exactly… I can sum up the 12,000 comments in a few bullet points:

1) Nostradamus Jr. says that “Hongcouver” will see price increases of 50% by 2011.

2) Devil’s Advocate is the best, knows everything, and everyone comes to this blog for him.

3) Dan says “POP”.

4) Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad posts 5-10 links from the Before It’s News website.

5) 10-20 gold bugs post about the end of currencies every day.

6) I post links to ridiculous RE media spin.

7) 20 commenters tell Garth he is great, and “today’s post is the best yet”.

8) 5 RE Bulls (agents) sneak on to post some fluff about how the market is still going up.

9) 20 commenters post links to news from several days ago.

But — hopefully Garth’s posts are saved… they are obviously the useful content on this blog.

#94 CTO on 09.12.10 at 8:36 am

83 comments already! They can try, but the truth is out there. This blog live eternally!

#95 Sanders in Windsor on 09.12.10 at 8:40 am

Try coming to Windsor and crossing the border to Detroit suburbs. Wow, I should shoot a video about the real estate destruction (there may already be some on youtube, I have not checked). Hang in, all.

#96 T.O. Bubble Boy on 09.12.10 at 8:44 am

Garth (and his IT staff)… if you get really desparate, the comments are still alive and well in Google’s cache.

For example: T.O. Bubble Boy lives!

#97 Jayman on 09.12.10 at 9:07 am

5 Mab
Til Debt Do Us Part has been on for four years give or take. Gail has been doing this for sometime. So the show was on before the short housing downturn of 2008. So it is not a new development. Just wanted to clear that up.
Her message is valuable to some, perhaps many, but I find it rudimentary.

#98 Gordeaux on 09.12.10 at 9:28 am

Hi Garth,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Vandals have always sucked, and our new high-tech age means they can cause way more damage than a few key marks in a paint job on the ol’ Hummer…

I tried to post this about 60 seconds before the site went away last time… still wondering if you could comment on it. From the Calgary Herald’s coverage of Mark Carney’s remarks at Spruce Meadows:

“Equally important is the establishment of a mechanism that allows for the orderly failure of a financial institution that doesn’t come at the expense of the taxpayer.

“To that end, Canada has been at the forefront of developing a solution – from the bank capital perspective – that appears to address this challenge.

“It’s called the contingent capital mechanism and as Carney explains it, it means that preferred shares or subordinated debt convert into common shares should a bank reach the precipice of insolvency. This immediately shores up the bank’s capital base.”

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding this, but does this not affect the security of preferred shares in banks? And maybe set a dangerous precedent as well?

My expertise is in agriculture, not finance, so I’m hoping you might shed a bit of light.

Thanks.

Preferred shares are equity, but with the characteristics of bonds. Having said that, this is an irrelevant statement. None of the Big Six will ever approach insolvency. If they did, people with GICs would also be wiped out, and have no secondary market to mitigate losses. (And don’t talk to me about CDIC – no salvation there.) — Garth

#99 Elena C on 09.12.10 at 9:30 am

Hi, Garth: are you planning any public events around Xmas time this year? We live in france, so we need plenty of notice to make it work. Would love to see you live.

Invitez-moi donc à Paris. — Garth

#100 Pete on 09.12.10 at 9:34 am

#76 “Too bad about your site…….most unfortunate. Anyway a funny thing happened on the way to work a few days ago. I came across a few old friends and we started talking, both of them said they are bullish on realestate! In addition both of them said they had pooled all their savings to purchase four condo units in a new square one development to be built in 2014. The comment was they could be flipped for a $100,000 profit by 2014.

The world has gone mad! People are still spending like mad with no thought about the future. This can only end one way……..BAD!”
———————————————————-
A buddy was looking for condo in the T.O (downtown and he couldn’t believe all the flippers and empty condos. First he thought how the builders work was garbage. Then he noticed that many were indian immigrants playing the flip game. T.O has a huge condo problem/bubble. Toronto has the most condo development in north America. Miami had that record just a few years and looked what happened. We will all see this very soon. People are gambling on RE and the problem is everyone can not win. Dot.com bubble/housing bubble same result.

Yeah, sure. The Indians did it. — Garth

#101 andrew.b52 on 09.12.10 at 9:39 am

Probably is the time to consider getting out of that hosting plan with canadawebhosting.com and going with one of the big guys in the industry. I’m sure you could get good reference from your readers.

#102 dark sad person on 09.12.10 at 9:43 am

#47 goldenfox on 09.11.10 at 11:05 pm

All deflationists have been dead wrong the last 50 years and have lost their shirts betting on it

*******************************

Who has been betting on deflation–for 50 years?

Here’s what kills me about Goldbugs betting on Inflation-
You like Gold-yet you don’t understand what it’s been saying–
You look-but-you don’t listen to Gold–

Prechter has been way out on his Gold call-because-
like you–he doesn’t listen to Gold–
If he used Gold (real money) to measure with-
He would have nailed it-his call-would have been bang on–

Governments have been fighting Deflation since 2001-
Real Goldbugs know this–cuz–they listen-

The old-Silent Sentinel-knows “all”

It speaks-few listen-

http://home.earthlink.net/~intelligentbear/dj-au-ratio-mt.gif

#103 Pete on 09.12.10 at 9:44 am

#87 bigrider

I will try to bring as my guest(s) the son of one of the top three largest builders in York Region(possibly a second from another) also find two lead selling brokers for two different builders (1000+ and 1500+ homes/condos throughout GTA). I will be giving some of the tickets out to various others, ‘regular people’ as well.
———————————————————-

WOW…..realtors developers are all now worried about the current housing crash from getting worse. We are already seeing builders drop their prices as sales have stalled. Hey bigrider if these people were doing so well they wouldn’t care to go see garth. The fact you claim these “big shots” are going just confirms what i have been seeing and hearing from insiders that the housing crash is crashing hard. These type of guys wouldn’t waste their time if they were making so much money. The housing crash is just getting worse. Sorry but it seems we are at the stage of being angery.

#104 Rachelle on 09.12.10 at 9:45 am

Sorry to hear about your cyber attack Garth.

I too am a victim of an internet stalker. There are a number of forums I enjoy posting in where I have been a member for years. Because I foolishly have used the same username at all these forums not thinking it would ever be a big deal, it is exceptionally easy for my stalker to find me using Google.

Everywhere I go, the dude follows posting nastiness, he sends me comments to my site, attacks my credibility, my business and any other thing he can think of. Recently I’ve noticed that he posts comments I make on one forum to another forum, to try to get a rise out of the participants there. He uses anonymouse to hide his IP address etc.

It’s so bad, I didn’t even announce where I was speaking on my site, he’s so deranged that I was worried he would follow me there.

It certainly destroys your enjoyment of the internet.

My thoughts are with you Garth :) here’s hoping you find him and crush him like the disgusting cockroach he is.

Unfortunately once you start telling people about an internet stalker, you sound like a conspiracy theorist because they use different user names and IP addresses and if they get banned they just come back under a different handle. I’ve even seen mine post under 2 different usernames simultaneously to add some weight to his attacks.

That’s what happens when you speak truth to power.

#105 nsqt on 09.12.10 at 9:49 am

Very happy to see the site is back up….I just registered for your visit to New Minas Nova Scotia in October and I look forward to hearing you “speak the truth”……

#106 Pete on 09.12.10 at 9:51 am

Sorry realtors time for you to cry cry cry as the HOUSING CRASH continues to get worse.

from the TREB website…

avg house prices in TO in May: $446,593

avg hosue prices in TO in August: $411,012

DECLINE of 35,581 or 8%
———————————————–

This is six months trend

Toronto detached average sold home price in the 416 area is down OVER $100k!!

March 2010 detached home sales in the 416: 1353
March 2010 detached home average sold price: $698,378

August 2010 detached home sales in the 416: 676
August 2010 detached home average sold price: $588,687

That’s a 16% decline in average sold price for detached homes in the 416… why isn’t that a headline in the newspapers??

Sorry realtors notice that sales DROPPED and prices fall and fall hard.

#107 Bobby on 09.12.10 at 9:54 am

I miss having Devil’s Advocate comment. I’m sure he would say this would have never happened if you had used the services of a real estate professional!

#108 wetcoaster on 09.12.10 at 10:17 am

Another sign that the lowest form of humanity can carry out a threat like this like a terrorist. I hope you nail his balls to the wall with a some rusty spikes.

I recall a decade ago when PC security systems were very weak. I was threatened with a virus attack via an online investment chatroom when shady info was uncovered on a tech company. I laughed it off, til two days later my computer basically melted. Never happened before or since. These kind of people are sick and psychotic and need to be dealt with legally and financially.

#109 wetcoaster on 09.12.10 at 10:29 am

Radio commercial heard in Victoria yesterday by a friend for a new condo development in downtown. “Live in Victoria, like your living in Manhattan.” Comparing Victoria to Manhattan ? You can’t even justify the pathetic arguements that Vancouver is comparable to Manhattan. More signs of real estate developers reaching the desperation level.

What would be the comparison ? Just as many homeless people, rats, bed bugs and crime ?

#110 Aussie Roy on 09.12.10 at 10:36 am

Worth a read “Largest Aussie bank lies?”

http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20100910/has-commonwealth-bank-deliberately-misled-investors.html

Sorry if this is a double post I to dont get waiting confirmation on my comments at the moment..

#111 dd on 09.12.10 at 10:52 am

#99 Gordeaux

…None of the Big Six will ever approach insolvency— Garth”

These banks are Too big to fail. :0

#112 Bill ( Peterborough) on 09.12.10 at 10:52 am

Garth ; This is turning into the X-Files . Alot of well informed bloggers out there giving opinions on various things. Starting to get under someone/s skin.

And you thought their were no conspiracies?

When you find out who did this( most of the time it’s a patsy) I know people can get to the truth out of him. (very persuasive).

Can send him on trip to eastern europe. No Charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvFSse6IxWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDN4L7cAQf0

#113 Taxpayer like everyone else on 09.12.10 at 11:00 am

28 Nibs – I wouldnt put too much faith in that article, though he may just be stating the obivous. He misinterprets the demographia study, then doesnt even
use those figures, and ignores other ctitcal data.

Garth – sorry about your site. I am sure it was only little
Billy playing in his basement and not the “RE cartel”.
Looks like many other bloggers have experience and
suggestions for you.

Live by the blog, die by the blog……..

#114 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 09.12.10 at 11:13 am

REQUIEM FOR A CONCEPT CONSECRATED IN 1776

Each year the 9/11 date comes ’round the ceremonies, the grief, the worry and angst amongst our neighbours to the south goes unsated. In fact, it seems to evolve into even deeper sadness and ennui as the years march on.

Examples:

-Donald Trump is on LKL the other night climbing all over those who’ve screwed up the reconstruction of Ground Zero;

-some whack-job Florida preacher threatens to burn copies of the Koran, over planned construction of a new mosque near Ground Zero, but changes his mind;

-some mindless fruitcake from Kentucky burns pages ripped from the Koran before TV crews;

-speaking of mindless fruitcakes, Democrats stare into the headlights of on-rushing defeat in the November 2 mid-terms paralysed by their insane ideology of the need for more and more government stimulus;

-Mr. Obama pins his hopes on “hate the rich” tax increases for continued support at the polls;

-the real estate debacle gets worse inspite of historically low interest rates, now years old;

-foreign wars…

Right after 9/11 President Bush told Americans to “go out and spend” so that they could feel better.

In post-war America when you felt bad you did a little shopping buying crap you didn’t need with money you didn’t have. Then you came home, saw the bills coming due, got depressed then went back to the malls and repeated the process.

This is the definition of insanity: repeating the same behaviour in order to effect a different outcome.

Some outcome this turned out to be, especially with so many malls having closed over the last two years!

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

God Bless America in her unending grief over 9/11.

#115 Bailing in BC on 09.12.10 at 11:33 am

#110 Wetcoaster

#2 S.B.

There is a large development billboard in Squamish that shows a woman running through a the early morning mist of a very large city. The blurb is one of those meaningless RE catch phases like “buy the lifestyle” (one assumes of house poverty).

You see, Victoria cannot be compared to Manhatten. The new Manhatten is obviously SQUAMISH!

#116 Jeff Smith on 09.12.10 at 11:35 am

>#60 Jeannie on 09.12.10 at 12:31 am
>Garth, I’m not surprised that this has happened. After
>all, you’re a very dangerous man. Think of the hundreds
>of Bloggers who have refused to play the Real Estate
>game, because of your blog. Then there’s your cross-
>Canada
>FREE seminars spreading the same message, tut tut,
>you are a tremendous threat to someone..the question
>is, who?

I agree, Garth probably has more enemies now than you can ever imagine. Pretty much anyone has has a stake in an inflating bubble would love to take down this site.

#117 haha on 09.12.10 at 11:39 am

mr. turner and blog dawgs…

it is not difficult to track activity on your blogsite.
and if indeed, it was attacked by an outside source, there are hackers who can examine your activity logs. from looking at your activity logs, the culprit can be flushed out. and, if possible, the reason for the attack can be determined.
i strongly suspect it is somehow related to the real estate industry ; that, i have no doubt.
that is just my personal opinion…
i do not have any evidence to support that but they are the only group of people who are threatened by your blogsite. as well, those that post to this blog also form a small but informative group that have important and relevant information to pass on to readers of this blog.

you and the bloggers associated with this site represent the ONLY SOURCE of information that is not tainted by the lies that the real estate industry feed to the misinformed consumer.

i hope that you are taking the necessary steps to:
– protect this blog site from further intrusions
– investigate your past few days activities leading up to the attack…

if any of the bloggers have access to people who could aid you in an investigation, please forward their contact information to mr. turner…

perhaps, after this attack, this blogsite will become a stronger, more opinionated, and more unified group of individuals.

#118 jjpetes on 09.12.10 at 11:40 am

Garth, regarding your site being attacked. As you know I have been a critic on your blog here and there, as well as supported a few of your assertions.

However, in this case, where speech, opinion, or information is deliberately tampered with, is where I draw it.

You have unconditional support here if you are able to prosecute in this matter. That is, are you able to in this case? If so, there is unlimited support from myself and others in several mediums from this blog if you are able to litigate. Are you in the process of this currently?

#119 Bill ( Peterborough) on 09.12.10 at 11:44 am

Re ## 114 Victoria Tea Party

God Bless America in her unending grief over 9/11.
—————————————————————

Unending grief, which alot of people are starting to realize was an inside job.

Sooner or later people will figure out that they have been manipulated , played like fiddles by those who were put in charge of looking out for their best interests.

Et Tu , Brute!

#120 Pat on 09.12.10 at 11:44 am

Sorry but can’t help noticing the irony, given the kind of advice G has been giving. This site would have been up and running by now with intact archive had you hired the services of a good IT professional(s).

Take it easy now. Sh*t happens. And don’t worry about recovering my previous comments :)

#121 kitchener1 on 09.12.10 at 11:45 am

Someone is not too happy about this website and its views. Really sucks, but, sadly, its the world we live in.

lets be honest Garth, your not the most diplomatic dude at the best of times, so that you ruffled a few feathers in your day to day life is no suprise.

BUT

everyone knows that its next to impossible to take down a website, maybe for a few hours but not for more then a day or two.

So, keep up the good work, I enjoy the comments and the debates on this website.

#122 Timing is Everything on 09.12.10 at 11:46 am

The site is up. Great job! Life moves on. Lesson learned (I hope). Ya can’t go back. Crap happens. Today and to the future. Yesterday is gone…Don’t let the bastards grind you down. Lets go….

My wife missed me anyway….She says, “Hi.”

#123 Anne on 09.12.10 at 11:50 am

That’s nothing. You should have seen what the hacker did when he couldn’t get tickets to see the Dalai Lama.

#124 DaBull on 09.12.10 at 11:58 am

#58 kanata squirel

Garth uses http://www.canadawebhosting.com to host his web sites. His domain name (vps.garth.ca) and redirects are registered through easydns domain register. It took me less than 15 seconds to find this out.

Canadawebhosting servers as a whole are very secure, so if someone hacked Garth’s site they most likely came in through the websites FTP port using a brute force password attack. Once in they will have access to the website source code and can do what ever they want from there. If the hacker did come in this way, canadawebhosting should have a server log of this. This may not help though because a smart hacker would have used a proxy server so their tracks could not be traced. The only trail a proxy server leaves is a trail back to it’s self and from there anyone routing through them can’t be traced (they don’t keep server logs), hence the other name for them “anonymous servers”.

For Garth.

If Candawebhosting doen’t provide a service to allow automatic backups of your website maybe you should be looking for a new web hosting provider. Most other web hosting providers have this service and usually at no extra cost.

#125 Gord In Vancouver on 09.12.10 at 12:05 pm

Thanks for reactivating greaterfool.ca, Garth.

We’d never hear the end of it if CREA’s (Canadian Real Estate Association) website was sabotaged by a real estate bear.

#126 goldenfox on 09.12.10 at 12:08 pm

#47 goldenfox on 09.11.10 at 11:05 pm

Precisely my point! Govt. will never let deflation take hold as long as they have a printing press. Why do you think gold has gone up for the last 10 years. Actually gold stays the same, it is the fiat currencies that are losing value by increasing their supply relative to gold. Govt. motto is inflate or die!

#127 sk76driver on 09.12.10 at 12:16 pm

Feel free to e-mail me the suspected attackers contact information…..

:o)

#128 Timing is Everything on 09.12.10 at 12:24 pm

#94 T.O. Bubble Boy

Thanks for the synopsis , we can just skip your comments from now on.

#129 Mark on 09.12.10 at 12:25 pm

Blew up your site for a ticket??? Sheese man all you got to do to get in is put on your hat on backward and look like you are walking out! LOL

#130 Dan # 2 from Victoria on 09.12.10 at 12:25 pm

I am one of those who is sitting on the sidelines waiting for however long it takes for things to correct and correct they will. I am not the only one I know who is waiting on the sidelines and I have strongly encouraged others to do so and they are starting to see the logic, commonsense. Some are old enough to remember the 80’s. It comes down to this…your house is worth only as much as someone is willing to pay for it…and at this point in time people are panicking and are fully aware of what is to come – they may not know how bad it will get, but it will get bad. Very few greater fools around now. And to all you people who will face negative equity…so sad but too bad…life and happiness are not guaranteed and listening to a “expert realtor” is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.

“Prices can only go up” yup until they start to come down. Think about it…if prices continually go up, who will be left to buy your house in the future, their are only so many billionaires out there who would chose to live in your suburb. LOL – Some people’s children and some people never learn and have forgotten the art of COMMON SENSE.

I have a family member who is realtor and oh boy…haven’t heard anything about sales lately. I hope all those realtors saved up some money…but I think not.

Would you take advice from a doctor who only took a self paced course with one test at the end…Then why the hell would you take the advice of a realtor in a major financial undertaking. I have heard so many educated people try to defend their plunge…most are now realizing they were caught up in one of the biggest Ponzi schemes we have seen. Which leads me to believe you can educate people but you can’t teach them common sense. Stupidity, greed and ignorance run rampant in every generation.

As for your site Garth, time to do what others have stated – daily/weekly backups to a different source. Maybe you should host your site with Wikileaks!

#131 Got A Watch on 09.12.10 at 12:34 pm

Hard to track it back to the real IP address if the hacker is any good. Could be just some malicious hacker from Russia. Hard to guess the motivation, even if they state it, could be false. This type of thing is preventable, but it costs money, like all security. If it really is “deep technology background”, LOL, he’s swimming in the shallow end of the pool. A realtor out for revenge? Sounds beyond the technical skills of most average readers.

Garth does inspire strong feelings, for or against. There are always whackos out there. It was bound to happen, almost every popular website has been attacked, some many times. Your ISP sounds like he was not expecting it.

“It sucks when it happens but a proper site backup regimen can make events like these a mere nuisance rather than catastrophe. The way you tell the story. i.e not knowing if your archive is ok, tells me its time for you to make your Business Continuity Plan.”

Indeed. I was in IT at one time. Seems like you need to up your level of security, and possibly the competence of those implementing it. There are ways to harden things, this hacker can’t be the best ever seen, he or they got in through a hole they found, probably a common one. Or they guessed your password, which is somebody’s fault – should not happen. If they used an exploit previously unknown to man till this attack, OK, it may not have been preventable. But that is unlikely. Of course hind sight is 20/20. Your ISP has no doubt worked hard to recover what they can. The old saying “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” comes to mind.

And a more robust backup regime – storage is so cheap nowadays, you could back up everything multiple times and ways, with limitations on the ability to delete backups remotely.

Garth, if it gets bad enough, you can send out the Blog by mail. Or, more seriously, would any of the local papers publish it as guest commentary? You’re a rock star now, cash in on the personal appearance money. You’ll just have to tour more. Buy a nice luxury bus.

#132 Sam on 09.12.10 at 12:34 pm

There was a big bump in deflation calls right around the 1990 recession.

Ravi Batra, Lord William Rees-Mogg & a lot of others looked at the debt servicing picture and concluded deflation was imminent and a slew of books documented this.

In addition to that one big spike, and another in 2001, there has been a quiet undercurrent of people calling for deflation for a long, long time.

here’s a small sampling of a couple of the more important names over the last 40 years – this list is a small sampling, by no means. As with all of Gary North’s output, be very skeptical and ignore anything other than what you can personally verify.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north803.html

#133 Sam on 09.12.10 at 12:35 pm

“this list is a small sampling, by no means”

should be
this list is a small sampling, by no means exhaustive

#134 The Original Dave on 09.12.10 at 12:40 pm

so what are people seeing in Toronto? I haven’t driven all through the city just yet. Mostly in the 905 and North York. I’m not noticing a surge of listings. The for sale signs that were up, don’t have sold signs – that’s for sure.

I’d like to know if listings are still climbing in T.O

#135 Got A Watch on 09.12.10 at 12:46 pm

Sorry meant ‘webhosting’ not ISP there, typo.

#123 – just saw your comment, and it is a great one.

“brute force password attack” – would it not be standard procedure that after 3 failed log-in attempts with an incorrect password, log-in would be denied? Or at least flagged as a possible security event? An option available to accounts, at least? Not very secure of a system then, no? Just curious.

I’m wasn’t webhosting, I was more of a hardware guy, but I did help setup some systems that were highly secure. Or at least we thought so. Customers have not called back to say they were easily hacked, at least. But I do know a few sites where a few hours reading could easily come up with numerous ways to harden a site or server.

#136 Northern_dirt on 09.12.10 at 12:51 pm

RE #111 dd
“These banks are Too big to fail. :0”

Nope, they aren’t big enough, to be considered too big.
That’s why they are relatively safe compared to US banks. They didn’t stuff their pockets with as much risk.

#137 LB on 09.12.10 at 12:58 pm

In July three computers located at CFB Cold Lake were identified as the ones that vandalized the Wikepedia site to alter information that was critical of the current government’s decision to spend billions on the new fighter jet. This vandalism was identified to have taken place there during office hours.

To realize that government employs Information Technologists to hack and manipulate ALL media in order to promote its message, (whether military or real estate), including in the the “Comments” sections, is not a “conspiracy” theory, it is fact. It is naive and detrimental to all of us to consider otherwise and not account and prepare for it.

#138 This is Wonderland on 09.12.10 at 1:00 pm

The other day I was doing some transaction at my local Bank of Nova Scotia here in Oakville and the teller was suggesting I enrol in the (Bank The Rest Program).
So I was directed to one of their advisors for more explanation.
Bank The Rest lets you automatically round up every purchase you make, using your Scotia Card Debit Card to the next multiple of $1 or $5. You choose the round up amount when you enrol. So… From my $1.80 purchase Scotia charges me 2.00 and puts the .20 cents automatically into my new, (Bank The Rest Savings Account). Apparently Scotia Bank did a large Poll of their customers and the #1 request; help us save money. And the average amount that Scotia Banks customer would like to save a year is $1500. Oh, and the bonus from what I understood is that Scotia bank will give you 10% or up to $150 a year if you are able to save a certain dollar amount “or was it make a certain amount of transaction”.
But wait, not only will Scotia Bank pay you money to transfer money you already have in a bank account they will let you transfer that money back into your checking account or take cash out without penalty. (Cha-Ching). And here inlies the question I had for the young man. Why not just take a portion of the Transaction Fees the bank charges the customer and put it into a said saving account. Or! How about not charging such high fees for every transaction and allow your customers to keep more of their own money. Explanation: One of the largest problems that Scotia Bank discovered while polling their customers is that people spend as much every week as they make and apparently this is becoming a worry for Canada’s Banks.
From Bank of Nova Scotia Broacher: Enrol in the Bank The Rest savings program with $5 round up. Your annual savings could be $600.
I’m just trying to figure out how much will it cost the customer in debit transactions to get $600 dollars of their own money back?

#139 45north on 09.12.10 at 1:05 pm

LS: Don’t read too much into it. Sites get attacked all the time, it’s just some guy in a basement.

No need to don the tinfoil.

No global conspiracy.

#140 Foggy on 09.12.10 at 1:14 pm

Glad to see this blog is back up and running. There are no shortage of a$$holes in this world. It certainly wouldn’t be the work of a realtor. No way they have the technical expertise. Or it’s your possible suspect. If so, he’ll be afraid to try it again. Or it could have been random. There are loads of sites attacked everyday simply because they can be. There are programs that these morons use to troll the web to see if they can invade a home computer or a website. Backup is the easiest solution. And logs kept by your ISP to see activity.
I wouldn’t sweat the loss of the comments. They have value for a few days and that’s it. No one takes the time to go back months and months to read them. They would be full of out-dated links and obsolete information. In fact you could establish parameters to delete aged stuff. Keeps the storage bill down.

#141 Spiro on 09.12.10 at 1:23 pm

I don’t think the attack came from the guy who was not happy with not being able to attend the event. You are dealing with different type of people. I don’t think it is the big guns either. The big guns know that if they shut you with brute force, your words will have even more influence on your readers and it will even get you more readers. They would have found a different way that looks very different from a simple hack attack. We are talking about an average size player here. These guys don’t have understanding of how information and society works. Also you would be surprised how easy some of them back off when you hit them back. From the time I’ve spent in the ring, I’ve learned that bullies like to pick on guys who don’t punch back. I used to work for an online software company. My boss would have those attacks some days which cost him lots of money. He knew who it was and he did the same to that guy. Guess what? The attacks stopped. However, in your case I don’t think you should take that road. I think it is just better to get a stronger defense for your site. The guys who attacked you and cannot go to sleep without thinking of how much you’re messing their business, they will be gone in few years. Don’t forget, we are getting into an age that will require you to be brutal but sharp as well. Many of those guys have only the brutal part. Some of these guys will try the brute force on other who are as brutal but have the sharp minds as well. Then they will get hurt. Like I said, because they don’t understand the environment very well, they wouldn’t know when to stop and back off. However, most will just become irrelevant in few years. These guys look on their success and not for a moment realize that it is based on luck and unnatural circumstances. Some of them will read this comment and say “Luck? Circumstances?! I drive BMW! What do you drive!?” …you get my point.
PS. I lost a forum that way. That’s when I learned to back up my database.

#142 dark sad person on 09.12.10 at 1:23 pm

#126 goldenfox on 09.12.10 at 12:08 pm

#47 goldenfox on 09.11.10 at 11:05 pm

Precisely my point! Govt. will never let deflation take hold as long as they have a printing press. Why do you think gold has gone up for the last 10 years. Actually gold stays the same, it is the fiat currencies that are losing value by increasing their supply relative to gold. Govt. motto is inflate or die!

*************************

Well–I’m sure your words will be a comfort to Bernanke-
He’s been trying to pump Inflation since the US housing bubble popped-
How’s that been working for him?

You’re forgetting the main ingredient-to causing Inflation-that being sentiment and-that-is why it’s not happening-
Ever heard of pushing on a string?

Gold price is increasing because of credit risk-the $ is getting stronger as well-for the same reason-
You are not paying attention to the real money supply-measured against the credit money supply–

Here is the size of the credit market–

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/TFjpp-fO9zI/AAAAAAAAJA0/Yt09bxQmQ4I/s1600/M2.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/TFjq_sV7JXI/AAAAAAAAJA8/wZ3CI36b6yo/s1600/Total+Bank+Credit.png

Here is the size of the cash market (currency)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/TFjtZvvzrQI/AAAAAAAAJBE/xvdhp5wot1Y/s1600/currency+in+circulationA.png

There is 8.5 Trillion in M2
9.3 Trillion total Bank credit–
A measly 800 Billion of currency in circulation-

Hopefully we can agree-that credit is contracting–
I mean-it cannot be denied-
Understand that credit is money-just as much so-as Currency and Gold is money-
If you can bring yourself to recognize that–
Maybe? you can see the Deflation–

#143 Millenium Dump on 09.12.10 at 1:23 pm

Hi Garth,
Any chance you can get on Bill ‘the tool’ Goold’s morning show in Vancouver? He was slagging you the other week when he had an expert (some guy that heads up a real estate investment institute) talking up the market. This was pathetic, even for a Chorus station. Would love to see you on there again a knock some sense into Bill and the majority of his listeners.

By the way, short Aussie banks, especially Commonwealth. You will make a killing. Aussie government does not insure their loans.
Cheers Garth.

#144 Vichy/Petain kids colouring book on 09.12.10 at 1:27 pm

I hope this IT attacker gets their job outsourced.

#145 bill on 09.12.10 at 1:32 pm

sorry to hear you got hacked , Garth. if you do find the miscreant any chance we could be privy to his /her/its email account? thought I would drop him/her/it a line….
on a subject dear to our hearts….
the development of the lots around the ‘iga/lcb at broadway and maple , has been postponed till october.
originally the work was to commence on or about july 1.
It was then decided that september would be more prudent.
My sources in the iga inform me that this has been pushed ahead to the end of October.
There appears to be a complete lack of interest in the future stores/condos ect.
When I asked about sales back in late july I was not given an answer other than ‘make an appointment’ .
well I didnt.
the site is a little forlorn now , but happily since the ‘david hunter gardening’ shop was razed the street folks can now cluster around the cedar trees on that former garden centre and brew up their food , ect while soliciting alms from the passersby and stay much drier than the older site just across the tracks.

#146 bob on 09.12.10 at 1:47 pm

Hackers can do a lot of damage,maybe slow you down,but we’ll keep on looking for your advice.

#147 S.B. on 09.12.10 at 1:49 pm

This Squamish hotel room was listed at 165,000 earlier this year. Now marked down to 139k.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7993474&PidKey=-1482420138

p.s. I will be at Garth’s Toronto event! I am worried it will sell out though. I figure 1000 people will attend at least. A convention centre or university auditorium will be required…
Why not rent a huge venue and charge $10/head at the door to cover costs?

#148 Josh on 09.12.10 at 1:54 pm

I find it very interesting how Garth can touch a nerve with those in the real estate business. Why should real estate agents and other real estate ‘professionals’ really care what Garth says? The fact that Garth can bring such strong emotional reactions from these types of people shows how much truth are in these postings, and how scared these people are of the truth getting out…..

#149 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 09.12.10 at 1:55 pm

Well Garth, no biggie.
They killed the message, not the messenger. But the only solution to combat Mr. Hacker-Loser who is trying to shut you down.
Post TWICE as many comments . Ensure your Back Up/ Continuity program is done daily.
And “out” the guy at the Four Seasons Hotel seminar. You know the smug little prick is going to show.
Everyone else at the seminar…..bring rotten fruit.

#150 T.O. Bubble Boy on 09.12.10 at 1:59 pm

@ #134 The Original Dave:

Listings in Toronto have been declining from their peak in April-May, but (as expected) they have picked up in September.

A search that I run on realtor.ca on a regular basis has changed from over 3500 listings in May down to 2350 or so in August to now over 2600 again part way into September.

guava.ca has historical charts of GTA listings, sales, prices, and also a daily capture of new listings… I’ve noticed some BIG listings days this week (150-200 new listings in a day for central GTA houses, compared to maybe 50 a day back in August).

#151 S.B. on 09.12.10 at 2:00 pm

To #115 Bailing in BC or anyone who knows:

Do people live in Squamish and commute to Vancouver daily? Is this possible?
Or are prices high simply due to Whistler’s proximity – Is there a bubble in Squamish?
Will natural resouces sustain the town or is this on the decline?

#152 T.O. Bubble Boy on 09.12.10 at 2:02 pm

Luxury townhouses in Toronto ON SALE NOW:

$929,000 just re-listed at $839,000 (-10%).

#153 lexington on 09.12.10 at 2:06 pm

Re ## 114 Victoria Tea Party

God Bless America in her unending grief over 9/11.
—————————————————————

Unending grief, which alot of people are starting to realize was an inside job.

Sooner or later people will figure out that they have been manipulated , played like fiddles by those who were put in charge of looking out for their best interests.

Et Tu , Brute!

Actually, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were inside jobs too. It was all a set up, so that Japan could get reparations. Same with the Blitzkrieg. The Brits bombed their own cities to smithereens during World War II so that they’d have an excuse to target German civilians.

#154 Calgary Girl on 09.12.10 at 2:06 pm

People always hate truth.

Hang in there.

#155 Openwookie on 09.12.10 at 2:07 pm

Garth,

Two words: Offsite backups.

Any website of value should have offsite backups, and a recovery process that is routinely practiced. It’s a pain in the ass, but it’s worthwhile when the unexpected happens.

#156 Joeblow on 09.12.10 at 2:37 pm

This reminded me of another story. Just like the real estate industry, our immigration industry has become big enough to have substantial power and influence. And just like with real estate, its success is dependent on creating perceptions. Just google Canada immigration and you will countless sites pumping the idea that Canada is the best place on earth in order to attract potential immigrants. They paint a picture of a paradise which, of course, has nothing to do with reality. As a result, most new immigrants get bitterly disappointed when they get here. According to Statistics Canada, 30% of new imigrants return to their home countries within 5 years. Others simply can’t because their life savings have been wasted and they are deep in debt. But the immigration pimps don’t care as they keep earning their money. Amidst this a web site appeared a few years ago named http://www.notcanada.com where real immigrants shared their real stories. Just like Garth’s blog that site was a bit skewed to the negative side which is exactly what was needed to add some balance to the information available. Sadly, I have recently discovered that http://www.notcanada.com no longer exists.

#157 drbrain8 on 09.12.10 at 2:46 pm

#87 bigrider

I will try to bring as my guest(s) the son of one of the top three largest builders in York Region(possibly a second from another) also find two lead selling brokers for two different builders (1000+ and 1500+ homes/condos throughout GTA). I will be giving some of the tickets out to various others, ‘regular people’ as well.
———————————————————-
#104 Pete

WOW…..realtors developers are all now worried about the current housing crash from getting worse. We are already seeing builders drop their prices as sales have stalled. Hey bigrider if these people were doing so well they wouldn’t care to go see garth. The fact you claim these “big shots” are going just confirms what i have been seeing and hearing from insiders that the housing crash is crashing hard. These type of guys wouldn’t waste their time if they were making so much money. The housing crash is just getting worse. Sorry but it seems we are at the stage of being angery.
———————————————————-

Kinda reminds me of Peter Schiff at the MBA convention (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj8rMwdQf6k) telling them their poodle just got runover by a hummer.. this would make a very good show. Can somebody post a video on Youtube after the event ?

#158 brainsail on 09.12.10 at 2:54 pm

Garth, I’m glad you are back! The interesting thing that I noticed while you were down was that if you Googled Greaterfool.ca there were zero references, like the site has never existed.

I hope that if the individual responsible has any ties to the real estate business that this event is made public so Canadians will realize that the real estate madness has gone too far and has become the same as a drug addiction for those that have been profiting the most.

#159 Ben on 09.12.10 at 3:03 pm

The Taliban did it for the anniversary of 911.

#160 The Original Dave on 09.12.10 at 3:18 pm

thanks T.O bubble boy for posting toronto listing information!

Much appreciated

#161 Bill ( Peterborough) on 09.12.10 at 3:19 pm

#153 Lexington

Actually, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were inside jobs too. It was all a set up, so that Japan could get reparations. Same with the Blitzkrieg. The Brits bombed their own cities to smithereens during World War II so that they’d have an excuse to target German civilians.
——————————————————————–

No different than the sinking off the Lusitania. The germans posTed constant warnings that the ship was an armament supply shipped with passengers aboard it.

Just like they the Politicos knew that pearl harbour was going to be bombed, before it happened. In order to bring the U.S. into the WWII.

The Treaty of Versailles was designed to eventually bankrupt Germany to the point of starting another war down the road.

Alot of money has been made by creating bullshit wars for the select few.

No conspiracies though.

Q: What do you do if two countries are provoked into a war by the polititians ?

A: Take the politicians from both countries , put them in front of a firing squad.

People in general, I believe do want to co-exist. Problem alot are manipulated by the few who stand to line their pockets at the expense of others.

#162 obert on 09.12.10 at 3:36 pm

How to explain the increased # of housing starts and continued increase in prices in Saskatoon? Well, I understand the increasing prices but the starts not. Anybody can explain this??

This is from The StarPhoenix:
Saskatoon Home Starts
August 2010 365
August 2009 143

January to August 2010 1,564
January to August 2009 648

#163 obert on 09.12.10 at 3:43 pm

Garth, are you visiting Saskatchewna any time soon? You mentioned Weyburn.. when?
Thanks for info:)
Glad your website is back online!! Continue the good work!

#164 DaBull on 09.12.10 at 4:05 pm

#135 Got A Watch

“brute force password attack” – would it not be standard procedure that after 3 failed log-in attempts with an incorrect password, log-in would be denied?

It all depends on how the FTP server was set up. Also there are many other possible means to gain access to a server but you need a program or service running on said server to access it. Some times web builder leave these services running which leaves web sites wide open for attack. After all most of these web site builders are just that and have no real understanding of web security.

There are many programs, free on the net, that can be used to check to see what is running (services) or open ports (what the services communicate through) on any IP address.

I really think it was just some update script run by either his webmaster or the web hosting company. Sometimes these script can do much more damage than any hacker would. After all if a hacker gained access to Garth’s source code they most likely would have change him into “Garth (Brad Lamb) the Condo king, ie. a real estate bull. That would have had much more effect than just deleting everything. That’s why I thing it was just “an update script gone bad”.

#165 Got A Watch on 09.12.10 at 4:17 pm

In case you thought we were just making this deflation stuff up, A Friday Ramble of Doom by Jack Crooks, a pro ForEx trader who has been featured on Howe Street for many years, is quite informative and reality based.

Yet more on inf and de, and he is not of the inf persuasion. He lays out why quite well, and covers some hard realities in international trade flows not mentioned in most other analysis.

Unlike the Gonzalo Lira piece, see ZH, which the inflationistas are citing this week as correct, an incorrect conclusion. Probably the best comment thread ever at ZH on that one: The Deflation vs Hyperinflation Debate On Steroids, Or Mish vs Gonzalo Lira In The Octagon – Mish is somewhat off target as well, his response is weak. As are Lira’s responses to those who say his arguments are somewhat out of touch with economic reality, which is what I thought when I read his post.

The inf/de flation war rages on. No quarter given or asked. Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war.

he situation is ever evolving, of course. Now we are seeing deflation, but nothing lasts forever. Timing is, of course, everything. Trading for one is opposite of the other in most respects.

Inflationistas expect hyper-inflation by this week, some of them predicted it for this September. 18 days left, the option is still open. Deflationistas like Mish see no inflation forever, or many years at least. One of these positions is wrong. I’m somewhere in the middle – not this year, probably not next, after that, who knows. My Cycles studies point to about 4-5 years down the road as the top for deflation, or bottom for inflation, if you will.

I called the future, but nobody answered. Left a message. No one called back yet.
——————————————————

Hmmm, I just Googled “greater fool. ca” and the site came up at the top, as it should. 616,000 results. Odd that it disappeared, as Google has the infamous “cache”, as many who have tried to edit their web mistakes have found to their sorrow. Does Google check if the site is up before you get the search result? I don’t think so, as I have found dead links from Google searches before.

A valuable lesson there in that internet cache: never post anything online while drunk or angry. It may not seem like such a great idea the next day, or 1 second after you hit ‘enter’. Regret won’t help.

Somebody is reading: “Greaterfool.ca Site Info
greaterfool.ca is one of the top 100000 sites in the world.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/greaterfool.ca – Cached”

Alexa rankings are bull, but it seems Garth’s popularity only grows and grows. He looks so harmless, like a puppy dog, who wouldn’t want to love him. Aside from those who stand to lose money if his predictions pan out – rather ridiculous to blame Garth, he didn’t cause the credit bubble, or burst it. Of course clear thinking is not what bubble blowers are famous for. Garth, better hire bodyguards, and deepen the moat at the bunker. More minefields and machine gun emplacements.

#166 Daija on 09.12.10 at 4:33 pm

You are always welcome in Nelson. Just say the word. Anytime.

#167 Cassandra on 09.12.10 at 4:34 pm

The Internet Archive wayback machine keeps old webpages alive. They have 15 snapshots of your website from 2008…unfortunately, it looks like they stopped archiving you in 2009. Still, if you’re missing some old comments from way back when, they have them

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.greaterfool.ca

#168 Devore on 09.12.10 at 4:38 pm

#87 bigrider

BTW -to all the people posting about the RE agents and builders getting financially whacked in this ‘RE Collapse” stop the exaggeration ,it’s silly and it does no one any good.

If real estate hit a major roadblock, all the builders, developers, construction and renovation companies and workers, materials suppliers, crafts, realtors, mortgage brokers, and anyone supplying those industries, will be hurting. Some, maybe even many, WILL go bankrupt.

That’s not an exaggeration, that’s a fact.

#169 Bill ( Peterborough) on 09.12.10 at 5:08 pm

Who says we don’t have fiat currency:

In a fiat monetary system, there is no restrain on the amount of money that can be created. This allows unlimited credit creation. Initially, a rapid growth in the availability of credit is often mistaken for economic growth, as spending and business profits grow and frequently there is a rapid growth in equity prices. In the long run, however, the economy tends to suffer much more by the following contraction than it gained from the expansion in credit. This expansion in credit can be seen in the Debt/GDP ratio. We track the bubbles created by this expansion of debt at the inflation / deflation page.

In most cases, a fiat monetary system comes into existence as a result of excessive public debt. When the government is unable to repay all its debt in gold or silver, the temptation to remove physical backing rather than to default becomes irresistible. This was the case in 18th century France during the Law scheme, as well as in the 70s in the US, when Nixon removed the last link between the dollar and gold which is still in effect today.

Hyper-inflation is the terminal stage of any fiat currency. In hyper-inflation, money looses most of its value practically overnight. Hyper-inflation is often the result of increasing regular inflation to the point where all confidence in money is lost. In a fiat monetary system, the value of money is based on confidence, and once that confidence is gone, money irreversibly becomes worthless, regardless of its scarcity. Gold has replaced every fiat currency for the past 3000 years.

The United States has so far avoided hyper-inflation by shifting between a fiat and gold standard over the past 200 year.

A good barometer of the size of a currency’s leverage is the percentage of total Debt to GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Currently, that percentage (299%) is higher than the level the nation experienced during the depression era 1930’s. With budget deficits projected for 2003 and 2004, the US will soon exceed this already inflated level. ”

This was published close to ten years ago, do you think it has gotten any better.

Source: kwaves.com/fiathtm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB_2oIKUVks&feature=related

#170 Brian on 09.12.10 at 5:08 pm

Garth; wouldn’t it be that you are just getting more people coming to your site?

#171 Coldlazarus on 09.12.10 at 5:19 pm

Well,if this is what they will do at the current level of desperation, wait until next year.
I believe you can get ready to fit DYI armor plate for vehicles such as a Hummer, we’ll just start calling you ‘Kevlar Turner.

#172 grantmi on 09.12.10 at 5:26 pm

Garth…

You want to piss these hackers off EVEN MORE!! You’ve got to drill deeper into SEO side of your site.

You need to add, a Twitter, Facebook account. Need to allow RSS feeds to comments and to your daily posts.

This will all get search engine optimized on Bing, Google, and Yahoo… and will generate all kinds of new links and search levels for people looking into the truth of the Canadian real Estate business.

that’s how you piss them off! Make your site even more relevant!

#173 Opportunity on 09.12.10 at 5:30 pm

Wouldn’t have gone down if you were on a Mac.

#174 travelite on 09.12.10 at 5:35 pm

Garth,
We need you to do a roadshow here in Australia too!

#175 905er on 09.12.10 at 6:01 pm

To the Blog Attacker:

So Sell !!

and in case youre a real estate agent:

So, Sell! and sell and sell and sell and sell…

#176 brainsail on 09.12.10 at 6:03 pm

#165 Got A Watch

I mentioned it because I thought it was very odd. When I was trying to connect to Greaterfool.ca I would get an almost blank screen with no messages like “site maybe having tempopary problems, etc.” or what ever the message usually is when sites are having problems and you can not connect. The screen came up instantly (1ns) with no green bars marking the time. So I Googled Greaterfool.ca to make sure I had I had correct address and there was nothing. Nada. Today I see 618K references.

#177 Paul on 09.12.10 at 6:21 pm

#162 obert on 09.12.10 at 3:36 pm

How to explain the increased # of housing starts and continued increase in prices in Saskatoon? Well, I understand the increasing prices but the starts not. Anybody can explain this??

This is from The StarPhoenix:
Saskatoon Home Starts
August 2010 365
August 2009 143

January to August 2010 1,564
January to August 2009 648

Maybe it’s got something to do with this. Who would imagined one of the worlds biggest diamond mines in your backyard.

http://www.shoregold.com

#178 Fritz on 09.12.10 at 6:33 pm

I’m very sorry you were hacked. Not just for you and your IT people but also for all your readers.We thoroughly enjoy your blog.
What will you do to recoup from the perpetrator? It would be hard not to send out a blanket email to every realtor in Canada that this individual has buckets of money and wants to buy a condo in Vancouver!

#179 45north on 09.12.10 at 6:38 pm

Bill (Peterborough) No different than the sinking off the Lusitania. The Germans posted constant warnings that the ship was an armament supply shipped with passengers aboard it.

In the Guns of August, Barbara Tuckman shows that the German military had only one plan which was to invade France. They did and they lost (World War I).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guns_of_August

Just like the politicos knew that Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed, before it happened. In order to bring the U.S. into the WWII.

The American military knew that it could be bombed. The probability was a matter of opinion. The attack was actually planned and carried out by the Japanese military under the command of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto and not by a group of American conspirators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto#The_Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor.2C_December_1941

#180 goldenfox on 09.12.10 at 6:56 pm

dark sad person on 09.12.10 at 1:23 pm

Actually the $ is not getting stronger, it is just not falling as fast as the other fiat currencies. There are many ways of measuring money supply, and the experts disagree among themselves as to which one is valid. Deflation, the bad type when asset prices collapse, and cause multiple debt defaults and concomitant money supply drop is something all govt will fight tooth and nail. Inflate or die. Bernake is and will continue printing, quantative easing etc until the cows come home.

See Sam on 09.12.10 at 12:34 pm
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north803.html
Here is what those who predict inevitable price deflation lack:

1. An understanding of what money is
2. An understanding of capital: it isn’t money
3. An understanding of consumer goods pricing
4. An understanding of central banking
5. An understanding of commercial banking
6. An understanding of Keynesianism
7. An understanding of Austrianism

This puts them at a disadvantage when they make economic forecasts, especially their forecasts of consumer prices in the following year. They have been correct twice since 1940: in 1949 and 1955. That is not what I call an impressive record.

#181 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 09.12.10 at 6:56 pm


#46 BBC — “….debt free.” — and — #89 steven rowlandson

Speaking of debt free or paying off debt . . . $135 Mln. DAY Increase in Debt That is how much our feds. are spending, and NOT telling us.

One can see why the NAU / SPP have been diverted to the backburner, so most will have forgotten about them.

By adding Mexico’s, Canada’s and the US debts / deficits up, it would be a very nice excuse for the head honchos to join us all at the hips, take down all the borders and then we all sink together. We voted these zombiewoofs in; Iggy, Layton, Duceppe, Campbell or Elizabeth May won’t fare any better.

The Caucasian Cycle has almost run its’ course, changing to Chindia and Russia soon. The Caucasian Cycle began July 4, 1776, so add 250 years to that and see where we are. Each cycle has 250 years or so (give or take) among the five root races.

#75 Mike (Authentic) — Great quotes!

#76 bullion.bunny — “The world has gone mad!” — Noted, but please count me out — I’m mad enough already!

#81 miketheengineer — Good to see you still around — don’t be a stranger!

“The powers that be strike back….” — Indeed, it may well be a warning shot across the bow. Checked Steve Quayle to get an idea of where he is coming from. Has detractors (everyone does), but seems to be involved with the occult / Christian / financial stuff, and mixing them together.

Personally, a voice of reason and common sense is more within my realm, which is why I come here. However, to each their own.

#94 T.O. Bubble Boy — “4) Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad posts 5-10 links from the Before It’s News website.”

Only because the controlled m$m duzzent; if they were truthful, I wouldn’t be here!

#112 Bill (Peterborough) — “Starting to get under someone/s skin.”

Yes! Wahoo! Made it to The Big Leagues, baby! Hotdamn it feels real good!

#144 Vichy/Petain kids colouring book — “I hope this IT attacker gets their job outsourced.”

Ooohh, nasty! Beyond Pluto?

#153 lexington — “Hiroshima and Nagasaki were inside jobs too.”

That’s right. Japanese had surrendered a week prior to when Little Boy, then Fatman were dropped. We are no more than the necessary casualties of war.

6:29 clip Bill (Peterborough) and TheBigLebowskki — you may find this interesting, esp. the second half.

#182 Old_is_Gold on 09.12.10 at 7:40 pm

Amigos:
#88 – Murray J Harris “As one moves further from the GTA evidence of the deflation in real estate is more apparent. Our postal code is N4K 5N4, Owen Sound. On our road there are 79 properties, either water front or waterview. 13 are now for sale. 5 open houses yesterday. Many “reduced price” or “new price” signs. Even when properties are priced “correctly” they are not selling. Coming to your GTA neighborhood soon.”

I live on the outskirts of Markham and ride up towards Georgina, Sutton, Keswick frequently and sometimes towards Port Perry. Same story there – lots and lots of listings along the lakefront in Georgina / Sutton and in rural areas as well as in Durham towards Whitby / Port Perry. And lots of NEW PRICE / REDUCED signs.

#183 Old_is_Gold on 09.12.10 at 7:47 pm

And sorry about your site attack, lots of people with vested interest in the market, that shows us the shallowness of the economy. Could have been any one of many levels of people whose income depends on the industry.

I would estimate that 25% or more of economic activity and tax revenues for various levels of govt. are related to RE.

Banks
Builders
Municipalities
Province (more times a property sells, more the land transfer rip off.)
Feds – HST
Construction industry
Furniture
TVs
Kitchen appliances
New cars to go with the house

List goes on and on, looks like too many eggs have been placed in the RE basket this decade, its negative impact will be more far reaching than the positive economic activity it generated.

#184 bullion.bunny on 09.12.10 at 7:55 pm

#142 dark sad person on 09.12.10 at 1:23 pm

Yes lower life form than a gold bug……..got to be careful with all the open source stuff. Web masters really have to know how to use it and protect it! Maybe it’s time to use OPENBSD from Calgary, now that hardcore stuff! Even the CIA & NSA use it.

http://www.openbsd.org

http://searchdns.netcraft.com/?host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greaterfool.ca&x=19&y=12

#185 ken on 09.12.10 at 8:01 pm

Keep up the good work garth,we need someone to offset the propaganda.

#186 D from London, ON on 09.12.10 at 8:12 pm

#15 Boombust

Kristallnacht? I see where you are coming from, but maybe you are slightly off the mark. Here is a quickie description of Kristallnacht, from our friends at Wikipedia:

Jews were attacked and Jewish property was vandalized, over 7,000 Jewish shops and 1,668 synagogues (almost every synagogue in Germany) were damaged or destroyed. The death toll is assumed to be much higher than the official number of 91 dead. 30,000 were sent to concentration camps, including Dachau, Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald, and Oranienburg concentration camp, where they were kept for several weeks, and released when they could either prove that they were about to emigrate in the near future, or transferred their property to the Nazis.”

I am afraid that an internet Kristallnacht is a little bit further down the road for us, at a time well-planned by those with interest in such things. At that time, the internet as we know it (a place to say and do as you please, or so we think) will be changed and brought to heal like a faithful dog. Likely a “national security” issue in the US, or some sort of “terrorist” provocation will be the excuse to set the wheels in motion.

Meanwhile, individual attacks on threats like Garth will continue. Likely he will be forced to retreat into expensive internet security measures that will mean the free and open access to this site will end and users will have to login to a secure site. Security costs money, so naturally a small charge will have to be leavied….and voila, the end of this site as a free and open exchange of ideas will be over. And they will have won.

Garth, please don’t retreat. And especially please don’t retreat behind a security wall so high that casual surfers cannot read and participate in your blog. The strenght of this blog is in the give-and-take of information between you and us dogs, and indeed amongst us dogs.

#187 TheBigLebowski on 09.12.10 at 8:13 pm

#114 VICTORIA TEA PARTY
yes and add to that the proof pointing to it being staged by elements of the U.S government headed by Cheney, as a pretext to invade the middle east. This really hurts once you know it was a false flag event.

#188 Ottawa S. on 09.13.10 at 11:07 am

#27 Bottoms_Up

What caliber of jobs was regained? Crappy minimum wage part-time jobs for well-paying full-time jobs? That’s what these reports often forget to mention.

#189 Live within your means on 09.13.10 at 11:43 am

We were away for the weekend at a neighbour’s cottage so only read about the attack on Garth’s site last eve. Hope you have been able to recover your archives Garth. My Laptop got hit a month ago. A hacker posted an update the same day as a new, reliable version of a software was released. Can’t recall the name of the program. Husband updated his PC earlier that morning with no problem. Tho Avast warned not to do an update, accidentally said OK to update. Thankfully, as he’s a techie, he was able to recover everything. But, it was odd that it occurred just a few hours after. Tho hubby backs up his laptop regularly, and all his servers at work on a daily basis, my laptop is mostly for my pleasure. But he’ll set up a computer to automatically do backups at home.

We took a drive Sunday afternoon with our neighbours and laughed our heads off at all the Economic Action Plan signs we saw. There was a patch of ashphalt about a metre long and half a metre wide on the side of a small country road. Of course, this was in a long held Conservative county.

#190 wellwell on 09.13.10 at 12:40 pm

Forget the website, I want to know what happened to those poor people on the train who were going the ‘wrong way’.

They bought in West Vancouver. — Garth