The outlaw

Bonnie1

Shauna, for reasons soon apparent, is what I’ll call her. She approached me some weeks ago, asking for guidance. You might be interested in what happened.

“Your book talked about the wisdom of having cash,” she said, “you know, actual money you can lay your hands on. At first I thought that was extreme. I mean, if I had $75 in cash in my purse, it was a big deal. Credit and debt cards? Yeah, tons. But who needs cash anymore?”

Exactly. We’re turning into a currency-less society. Money has been digitized in a process now completely embraced and propelled by large financial institutions. Think about it: Most of us are paid incomes or pensions or salaries by direct deposit. Then we dispense it for bills, mortgage payments or other obligations by cheque or transfers. We pay utilities online, buy groceries with a debit card and  gas with a credit card. We make RRSP contributions or pre-authorized payments without seeing actual money. When we crater chequing accounts, savings are automatically debited or lines of credit mined. The only time many people see actual folding money is when they hit an ATM – and there are daily limits for withdrawals, usually in the hundreds of dollars.

So, what if?

What if we had another financial calamity this October, like last year? What if the trillions in bailouts and the zero interest rates didn’t work and the economy sank? What if the government or the Bank of Canada declared a bank holiday for a few days, or a week, to prevent a run on deposits? Or a month?

After all, the big banks have enough cash on hand to cover only about 10% of the liquidity Canadians have in just chequing and savings accounts. That means if confidence in the system was questioned and  people started to line up here, as they did outside a British bank last autumn, nine of ten would be SOL.

Or, perhaps we need not contemplate anything so profound. How about a crashing Internet, brought about by a terrorist attack, a technical failure or a solar storm? After all, in a digital world in which banks now keep your money on a server instead of in a vault, shit can happen.

“But,” Shauna said, “I thought about the point you made about insurance. If I have life insurance or fire insurance, it doesn’t mean I’m going to die or have my house burn down. So maybe I need money insurance.”

Smart girl. And that’s why she came to me. She had lots of money, and wanted to keep some close at hand.

At least, she thought she had lots of money. The bank thought otherwise.

Shauna made a decision, wise or otherwise, to withdraw $120,000 from her accounts (savings, chequing and RRSP) and convert it into paper money. She then planned to put 80,000 of it in two safety deposit boxes at two banks near her house in Edmonton, and keep the rest in a safe hidden in the ductwork of the suburban home she shares with her husband and their dogs. This was exactly the amount of cash, she figured, they would need to live for two years. She also told me that although she knew a bank holiday would shut down her access to a SDB, any disruption like that would last – at most – weeks. So, the home cash was designed to tide her household over for many months.

Radical doomer thinking? Maybe. But that’s not the point of this story.

Shauna followed some of the rules in “After the Crash.” She called her branch (one of the Big Five banks) a week in advance to tell them she’d be coming in for the money. She asked for it to be bundled in twenties and fifties. And she informed the Customer Service Manager of exactly what time she’d be there, asking that the cash be ready and given to her in a secure area of the bank.

Just to be sure, she went online to her bank’s site and sent a query to its help desk. ‘Is there a limit on how much money I can take out of my account?’ she asked.

The response: “Thank you for asking about withdrawing funds personally from your account at your local branch. You can withdraw any amount available in your account. However, if you are withdrawing several thousands of dollars then we recommend notifying your branch in advance of the day you wish to make the withdraw to ensure enough of cash is on hand.”

Twenty minutes later her cell rang. It was the branch manager, informing her there was a ‘bank policy’ disallowing large cash withdrawals by customers. He said he had called head office after her request, and that was the answer. Period.

Shauna was incredulous. But, she said, this is my money. And I want it.

Hours later the guy called again. She would be allowed to make a series of six withdrawals of a maximum of $20,000 each, and there must be five regular banking days (a calendar week) between each withdrawal. This, he said, ‘is for your own safety.’

And how could that be? Making six trips to the bank and back with six bags full of money would just increase her chances of losing it to theft or misadventure by a factor of six. More profoundly, what right did the bank have to restrict her access to her own money? Where was this ‘policy’ that justified a bank rationing assets that it did not own? Why was there such fear of converting digital blips into marketable pieces of paper?

In the end, after intervention, Shauna got her money. But to do so she was required to make two withdrawals of $60,000, in two trips one week apart, and to a branch other than her own. Before giving over the funds, the bank insisted each time she sign a release stating that she understood the dangers of making a large cash withdrawal, that she held the bank and its employees blameless for any consequences, and that she declared the bank’s employees had strenuously warned her against the action she was taking. It was, she told me, over the top. “I felt like I was robing the place, you know, like Bonnie and Clyde…”

Certainly there are those who would judge such a move rash. Shauna’s hundred and twenty grand will earn her no interest, pay no dividends and result in no capital gain. It can be lost, destroyed or stolen. It will be eroded by inflation.

But, it’s also close at hand for a dark day. It will not disappear in an ill-timed investment. It is under nobody’s control but hers. It’s insurance against the unknown and the feared – and what else is insurance for? Mostly, though, it’s real.

And she tells me it is so much more valuable now because of what she knows: they don’t want you to have it.

US housing slump not over yet?

135 comments ↓

#1 LS on 08.03.09 at 10:16 pm

Hmm, fun story Garth, but don’t read too much into it.

In today’s litigious society the bank is worried that someone will withdraw a large amount, then get robbed just outside the bank and try to sue the bank. They’re covering their asses, nothing more, nothing less.

A minor point. Restricted access to one’s own money is more of an issue, n’est-ce pas? — Garth

#2 hal smith on 08.03.09 at 10:22 pm

Don’t worry people, if the banks run out of money the BOC will just print more………just like they probably did for Shauna.

#3 WillsDad on 08.03.09 at 10:23 pm

Wow, scary story…not. What a twit she is to take all her cash and have it erode in her ductwork.

All her eggs in one basket, she’s like the twits who don’t care about planning for the future since they are sure Jesus is coming to “save” them.

I bet she home schools her kids too. Some people really need to get a grip.

#4 Cassandra on 08.03.09 at 10:26 pm

We had the same problem…to get around it, withdraw smaller amounts, over a longer period of time. You will get there, only it may take awhile.

Weeks…months…depending on what kind of a reserve you want. But we noted exactly the same “reluctance” when we queried the Banks about this. They are very afraid of customers who actually want to withdraw their own money…they make it downright difficult for you to get it. Maybe their precious bank vaults aren’t as well supplied as they say (LOL)?

It is said that if you take the paper currency in circulation and divvy it up amongst the population you get about $800 per person. All the rest is magnetic fields and electrons on computer chips somewhere. So of even a small number of people decide to build up a “physical reserve” (well, paper currency is physical, in a sense) such as the one described above, there won’t be enough to go around.

Cassandra

#5 nonplused on 08.03.09 at 10:39 pm

Because the banks leverage the money through the fractional reserve system, ostensibly 10-1 but I think it’s closer to 20-1 and in the US and Europe even higher, Shauna indirectly removed 1.2 to 2.4 million dollars from circulation. This is the real reason the “system” is no longer capable of everyone storing their money in cash. If everyone did this, it would be Garth’s dooms day deflation scenario writ large, with interest rates skyrocketing at the same time in an effort to seduce the money back into the banks and thus back into the system to underpin the fractional creation of debt.

At the risk of going over a point everyone knows (in case someone doesn’t), in a fractional reserve system, which is what we have, a deposit in a bank enables the bank to make loans in a multiple of the amount deposited. They only have to keep enough cash on hand to cover liquidity needs and potential defaults. So if the ratio is 10 to 1, a one dollar deposit equals 10 dollars in loans. The Reserve bank of the country typically sets the maximum leverage ratio for banks that are part of the system, although as of late they have been pretty lax.

#6 Investor on 08.03.09 at 10:42 pm

Much better off to buy gold coins if you going to store it at least gold is indestructible. Just my opinion.

Worse case scenario money will not help you. I think you are better off becoming a hunter.

#7 lgre on 08.03.09 at 10:47 pm

This is no surprise, I tried to withdrawl $10k a few years back and that was a trip on it’s own..I can only imagine $120k..

if you have that type on cash, open 5+ accounts with different banks…it will make withdrawals easiers

#8 $fromA$ia "Garths Nugget Boy" on 08.03.09 at 10:53 pm

A gifrt for Garth,

http://www.europac.net/videoblog.asp?a=watch

Just for you guys, I bought — ounces of .9999 silver 5 dollar Canadian coins in 25 packs. Yum :)

We know their not worth $5 Garth but your paper money has no intrinsic value. Take it from somebody whos father inlaw needed suit cases of cash to buy a loaf of bread in China when their civil war was on.

Wise guy :P

#9 davers on 08.03.09 at 10:57 pm

I wouldnt say that it is any safer or more dangerous to take the money in 1 lump or in shifts of 20 grand. If she does it all at once she could lose it all, but if she does it in shifts there is a greater risk of losing some, but a much smaller chance of her losing all of it. If she did it 100 bucks at a time she would have a higher chance of losing a few bucks, but would almost certainly get almost all of the money out safely.

Just make sure she doesnt keep it in the mattress like a certain lady in Israel…

#10 Cassandra on 08.03.09 at 10:59 pm

I don’t know how useful a source Newsweek is…but their claim is that Canadian Banks are typically leveraged at about 18 to 1…as opposed to American Banks at about 26 to 1. That was as of February. I know that Karl Denninger at Market Ticker and Tyler at Zerohedge published figures of leverage at several large American Banks at figures like 40 to 1 or even 50 to 1…which is just insane. But being conservative, 18 to 1, thats around 2.2 million Shauna “removed” from the system (well, removed is a loaded term…what is removal? carrying out bags of cash? erasing electrons in a bank computer? destroying credit? who knows LOL). Here’s the Newsweek number, anyway, fwiw:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183670

Cassandra

#11 Garthlover on 08.03.09 at 11:04 pm

OK Garth,
This has become ridiculous. I’ve always had cash on me or at home, several hundred dollars at a time. I could never understand people who would reach into their pockets and come up with a fiver at best.

BUT, for Shauna to keep 2 years’ worth of cash is just insane. If there’s a fire, earthquake or other disaster, she basically loses it all. I certainly comprehend keeping $20k on hand, which BTW is small potatoes to many businessmen who deal with lots of cash daily.

One could live on $20k for at least 6 months. What ‘disaster’ lasts longer than that? Come ON! If the entire world starts collapsing, nobody will be paying their rent, mortgage, utilities , on the pretext that there’s no cash available, right?

Therefore, even those who CAN pay, like Shauna, would be foolish to ‘fess up that they have money on them. They’ll simply jump on the govt bandwagon when the nice Feds declare it illegal to turn off utilities or to go after folks who owe money.

Remember something else. If banks start failing, will it be easy to even access those safety deposit boxes? Those are logically safer places than her home, but could turn out to be the riskiest hiding places.

#12 Coho on 08.03.09 at 11:09 pm

WillsDad #3 wrote,

All her eggs in one basket, she’s like the twits who don’t care about planning for the future since they are sure Jesus is coming to “save” them.

You’re accusing this woman of being the exact opposite of what she is. She IS planning for the future, but it is a different future than the one YOU see.

As for waiting for Jesus to save her, it appears that you are waiting for the ruling puppet masters to save the sheople. I wouldn’t count on that happening and more people are waking up to this very real possibility. Perhaps they are the ones that have managed to get a grip on how things will play out. It IS going to get real ugly…

#13 jackie on 08.03.09 at 11:09 pm

In 1999, when my husband and I applied for immigrating Canada, I went to a bank in Seoul, Korea to send our landing fee to Canada government. The bank refused to sell me Canadian dollars, but they won’t tell me why. I insisted and waited about five hours in the bank until they gave up. The bank didn’t give me a reason, but a few days later, Korea was in crisis and had to receive help from the IMF.

#14 Joe Realtor on 08.03.09 at 11:10 pm

Well at least she didn’t run into the same type of twit I did last week at TDCrappyTrust.

I was trying to deposit a certified cheque and the “Manager” came over and said in a very loud voice that “because this cheque is soooo large, that a hold would be put on it”. I told him to keep his voice down. If I was going to my home branch instead to deposit it (where a hold wouldn’t be put on it) I didn’t need everyone in the branch to know that I had a large cheque on my person. You’d think a “Manager” would be a little more discrete. Alas, he was another one of these guys that loves the sound of his own voice and won’t let you finish a sentence without interrupting you.

Freaking banks.

Yes, you’re not earning interest on it, but todays interest rates (which seem to decrease weekly) thats hardly an incentive to avoid having the cash close at hand.

#15 Harold on 08.03.09 at 11:10 pm

Don’t bitch about banks people. Without the fractional reserve system you would’nt have an economy. No one would be able to borrow to buy anything, not a house, a car, a TV – nothing. You’d be back to the dark ages overnight.

I for one don’t worry about Canadian banks going under. Some of the big five have been in business for going on 200 years.

#16 Joseph on 08.03.09 at 11:13 pm

Point 1 – I’m with Investor blog #6 who said “Worse case scenario money will not help you.” If we reach such a calamitous point in society where the majority of individuals can’t get access to their own money, having it in our houses will not make us better off, as people will then just start targeting people’s homes to get what they want. I’d put the money back in the bank.

Point 2 – Interesting link because one of Greenspan’s qualifications for his assessment that the US recession is over is that US housing prices have stabilized and reached their bottom. He stated that if US home prices should fall another 5% to 10%, it will trigger yet another run of foreclosures, precipitating yet another financial crisis for the country, trapping the US in a vicious cycle.

#17 PaperMoney on 08.03.09 at 11:21 pm

The issue is that they don’t have the paper money, the banks get supplied with paper money once a week and they keep very little on hand. Try going in and requesting 10K most likelty they will tell you that they do not have that on hand. The max you can get at any one time is 5k.

#18 landlord on 08.03.09 at 11:31 pm

yikes! that’s the danger in believing everything you read.

120k in ductwork and safety deposit boxes…it’s just plain silly.

#19 My_view on 08.03.09 at 11:54 pm

Garth,

You didnt talk her out of it? Return some maybe? Shauna is the greatest fool!

#20 WillsDad on 08.03.09 at 11:55 pm

“Shauna, for reasons soon apparent, is what I’ll call her.”

-Sorry Garth, what were the reasons soon apparent that you callled her Shauna, rather than say, Bonnie? What’s the significance of the name Shauna to your story?

#21 B on 08.03.09 at 11:59 pm

Today we have a debt-based monetary system, which is sustainable as long as there is economic growth. What happened to Shauna is common by now everywhere in the world. This is how the banks discourage you to withdraw your money. After Bretton Woods failed, we allowed the banks to provide us with $10 for every physical dollar they have. This brought into play a lots of “electronic money” that doesn’t actually exist, but for which one pays interest. I see it just like a huge scam that will blow up eventually.

Shauna, I think keeping so much money in cash is not good, as there are very low odds for your situation to go bad, but the rest to remain the same, for at least two years… so you have time to use your money. I suggest you to keep the cash for 6 months and the rest to invest in things you can trade or sale anytime later. Not gold/silver bullion, as in case of catastrophic events, the precious metals will mean nothing until the world will clear out of some billions of people. Scary, huh? :-)

I remember when I was to apply for a credit card, and the bank officer asked me how much money I have and where. When I said how much of my money are in cash, he asked if I keep them at home. Politely I asked him if this information is going to help him in his job or in his life, as he obviously has my home address… He just changed the subject.
I also keep my RRSP in “cash” for now, as my bank assured me I can withdraw within 24 hours, although… I didn’t ask if there is a weekly limit :-)

#5 – you are right, just that in case people will suddenly turn to cash and run on banks(which for various reasons will never happen), the first thing the reserve bank will do is to start the printing press, bailout the banks (once again) and apply more stimulus packages, not increasing the interest rates.

#22 squidly77 on 08.04.09 at 12:00 am

Hey “squidly77″ pissed off.

In war time such talk as is carried on here by Garth and his ilk, is considered a defeatist mentality, which leads to a lowered moral, which leads to confused and angry people. This is not treason, but it has historically been considered akin to it, or aiding and abetting it at least. You yourself seem to be a victim of such vitriol.

vitoral what the hell does that mean, according to websters this Any of various sulfates of metals, such as ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, or copper sulfate.
2. Bitterly abusive feeling or expression.

calling treason is serious, that accusation should not ever be made

threats are for weaklings, think guy fawkes….bang

#23 Davinci on 08.04.09 at 12:00 am

I wrote this in response to a gold hater’s message. I felt it’s appropriate since there are a lot of greater fools here.

———————————
I agree timing is everything. Timing is useful for getting out of ponzi scams, you can profit greatly. The fact that you should not be in a ponzi is irrelevant to most traders. Heck there is one guy at work that feels he can trade out of his silver ETF when the time comes before it revealed that it’s a scam.

You know the funny thing is I’m in gold because I don’t want to gamble, you are not in gold because you don’t want gamble. Isn’t that funny! :)

What I can’t understand about you is why do you not see that prices are based on unit you measure it with. Thus if there are a of those units (dollars) the higher the number. Why doesn’t that concept click for you?

Finally the statement “if it’s obvious, it’s obviously wrong” 1. It’s become painfully obvious to me that people can not understand the concept of money. You are a shining example. Therefore it’s not obvious. 2. It was obvious for 10 years that Madoff was running a ponzi, was that assessment wrong then even though it continued for another 10 years? 3. The dollar is a ponzi scam and it’s obvious as the Madoff scam was. Yet some how it’s different?

Well, that reminds me of another market top saying “this time it’s different”. I get that a lot form paper money lovers.

I don’t know when the dollar will collapse but looking at the charts of the federal reserve all I can say is it looks like it will be sooner than later.

These charts are now useless for historical data:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BORROW?cid=122

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TOTRESNS?cid=123

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BOGNONBR?cid=123

All the charts at the federal reserve web site are now useless except to show that monetary policy is not normal and incomparable to anything in 100 years in the USA. (It is similar to Wiemar Germany, Zimbabwe and Argentina but magnitudes larger than those countries.)

When I looked at the data again it strengthened my conviction that historic events are eminent.
———————————-

Remember I was a paper money lover like you but the truth is the truth. It hurts, you can ignore it but it remains the truth FOREVER. Don’t be a greater fool, get out of paper get into gold or silver.

#24 specuskeptic on 08.04.09 at 12:03 am

Restricted access to one’s own money is more of an issue, n’est-ce pas?

Yes indeed it is. Purely speculating, but I’m guessing that’s a small countermeasure to prevent kidnapping for ransom which may well become a burgeoning industry if the economy goes waaaaaay south.

#25 squidly77 on 08.04.09 at 12:04 am

now if you can find the means to plug in a shameless plug..please do, as i fight for the same cause as you
http://albertabubbleblog.blogspot.com/

only on a local level

#26 LS on 08.04.09 at 12:06 am

“A minor point. Restricted access to one’s own money is more of an issue, n’est-ce pas? — Garth”

I suppose. Another unfortunate consequence of the trend toward the nanny state.

#27 r1200c on 08.04.09 at 12:15 am

120 large in cash… sounds more like a liability than an insurance…
Garth – YOU may get sued over this if anything goes wrong…

#28 DH on 08.04.09 at 12:23 am

I agree with the gold coins idea and I also don’t see how the banks are trying to keep my money. People transfer money in and out of banks in large sums electronically all the time. This is the “safe” way to do it. Although I agree with you on many issues, I don’t think attention needs to be drawn to this even though we at least know that it’ll be hard to get cash in case I ever need stacks of it to pay a ransom. Unless the banks are working together as part of a giant conspiracy to keep our money, I’m not worried about this too much.

#29 whoever on 08.04.09 at 12:34 am

Retarded the girl and the blog posting.

#30 JoeCalgary on 08.04.09 at 12:52 am

I suggest that many Canadians are already storing cash, some for years, and the “system” knows it.

#31 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.04.09 at 1:07 am

Shauna’s actions are not overly radical, considering the mess the world is presently in (see following links).

For myself, I would stash $50-$65K in a place easy to get to, so there is always some kind of ‘out’. Also, gold and silver coins would be nice within arm’s reach.

But gollygosh. I googlied ‘october surprise’ just for the heck of it and came up with . . .

http://consortiumblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/divided-iran-october-surprise.html

(first para. somewhat self-explanatory) — and —

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/07/30/the-ultimate-october-surprise

Excerpt: “The final collapse of the entire global financial system is just months away, and the window is rapidly closing on the last, best opportunity to avert a global plunge into a Dark Age that will make Europe’s plunge in the 14th Century seem mild by comparison.

“By LaRouche’s estimate, as things stand now, the close of the fiscal year, on Sept. 30, will mark the onset of a full-scale financial crash, by no later than mid-October, . . .”

— combined with —

#122 CAILiberals on 08.03.09 at 10:20 pm — “We are not in a war, but if we do end up in one sooner than later, the talk on this site will be decidedly anti Canadian, like it or not.”

Duz all this have anything to do with the rogue meteor strikes on Jupiter and Venus within the past few weeks? And the famines happening thruout the world, whereas heavy downpours occur in other areas, where they’re not supposed to?

With this fast-expanding wheat fungus-disease happening, fake pandemic and forced vaccinations, soy crops turning into vast quantities of nothingness, it may well lead to mass starvation (Stalin and others mastered that), so money is not going to be of much use.

To #122 CAILiberals there could be rumblings of WW3, which is what the elite want anyway, for ‘population reduction’. They are close to getting their wish.
——
Another ‘pre-planned’ market crash in the offing? It’s been done before and will happen again, so a few individuals can profit quite handsomely from all the mayhem.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32262705/ns/business-world_business/
——
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/aug/03/barack-obama-iran

I put the link above, but read the third para., first sentence to get an idea of what else is being formulated behind the scenes.

“The reason we are looking at a 60 day time cap on potential US engagement through dialogue is that Tel Aviv has given Washington its marching orders as to precisely when an attack against Iran will begin.

“Sanctions are not going to work, as certain countries, such as Russia, will ignore them with impunity. There is no chance in hell that the UN will approve of more severe sanctions, as Russia and China will veto them.

“We may we well be looking at some kind kind of “October Surprise”, involving some kind of military campaign that would be a joint US/Israeli strike. The US and Israeli military are profoundly integrated at every level, as current joint exercises recently in Nevada have demonstrated.

“Russian diplomats have warned both the US and Russia that such an attack against Iran will be the trigger for WW3.

“Unfortunately, the collective hubris in Tel Aviv and Washington may just make that so.”

See lead-in links.

#32 Munch on 08.04.09 at 1:39 am

Very nice, Garth!

My sister has a couple thousand pounds stored in her mattress in London for just such an example.

Crazy?

Maybe!

Maybe not!

#33 wellwell on 08.04.09 at 2:04 am

Shauna, I have some home security ideas I’d like to share with you … if you could just give me your address …

#34 Mike (Authentic) on 08.04.09 at 2:45 am

#5 nonplused “Because the banks leverage the money through the fractional reserve system, ostensibly 10-1 but I think it’s closer to 20-1 and in the US and Europe even higher, Shauna indirectly removed 1.2 to 2.4 million dollars from circulation.”

That is an excellent point! Just think when you deposit $100,000k that’s a million (or more) the bank can lend out, and withdrawing that means they have to cover a $1 million (or more) in outstanding loans. This is definately one of the reasons the bank doesn’t want you to have access to withdraw your cash in large sums.

But, I think this story is much more important than many think, it’s about access to what is yours. Your cash. You can deposit as much as you want at one time, you should be able to expect the same when you take it out.

With “hi-interest savings accounts” paying just 1%, and a deflation of – 0.9% thus far, having it in cash in your house isn’t a bad idea. Especially if we get another Black October 2008.

What it boils down to is also “Risk vs Reward”. Is the risk of not getting your money in a crisis worth the reward of a 1% (or less) interest reward?

I would say, definately no.

Mike

Investor: I just learned that Gold does melt in a house fire according to the internet. Silver can as well (but has a higher melting temp). Thus, gold is not indestructible.

#35 gold bugger on 08.04.09 at 4:20 am

What, exactly, is wrong with home-schooling one’s children?

Just because you send your kids to a decrepit, ill-equipped, under-funded public school run by under-qualified teachers and inept administrators, where your kids can learn to swear like sailors and be obedient slaves to corporations (read up on the origins of the American public school system).

And what does Jesus have to do with anything? Nowhere does this woman mention religion. You have simply engaged in a gratuitous drive-by smear of believers. I’ve got one: maybe you and your state-loving Marxist friends and family should devote less time to slandering believers (full disclosure: I’m not one) and more time filling out your welfare forms, cashing your EI cheques, lobbying for free kindy-garten, free health care, cash for clunkers, entrenched public sector unionism, and everything else that’s bankrupting this country.

Cripes I hate self-righteous statists. Don’t you people realize you’re just worshipping a different kind of god?

Buffoon.

#36 PC on 08.04.09 at 4:51 am

Try this on for size.

I had a management contact inside the second best
performing (by yearly volume. Over 4 billion a yr turnover) banks.

How much cash do you think he told me they kept on hand?

A measley 25k!!!

25K for the second best performing branch of one of
top 3 Canadian banks.

Read this again and let it sink in.

#37 Bottoms_Up on 08.04.09 at 6:03 am

The bank should NOT have given her a problem. If these problems of withdrawing your own money reach the main street news, people WILL become scared, and WILL make a run on the banks. The banks should happily hand over people’s money.

In my own experience, my wife gets paid by GoC cheque, and many banks give us a hard time just cashing her cheque! I’ve even had to reference this site (that it’s our consumer right to cash a government cheque under $1500):

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/consumers/Rights/Cheques/RightsCheques_1-eng.asp

#38 Jacqueline on 08.04.09 at 6:19 am

I understand people want to protect themselves but it is irresponsible to talk about pulling all your money out of the bank at once. If many people decide to do this, it would have the same effect as a run on the bank. Your money is in part invested in our economy where you have a job. It is important to have a bit of cash on hand for emergencies but if things really go to shit, paper money probably won’t be very valuable (food, etc. will be).

#39 Jacqueline on 08.04.09 at 6:21 am

If you’re really worried, the best thing to do is learn skills and have a close group of family and friends. That will increase your value.

#40 David Bakody on 08.04.09 at 6:29 am

Using cash in to-days world is not a easy trick ….. line ups occur at airports when the computer loading systems fails … cash registers are computerized … bank machines of course …. grocery stores also and most young clerks can not even add and subtract simple numbers let alone add percentages. Garth I think this flows to suppliers and beyond so this would leave me to believe having the necessary stock pile would be more effective than cash. Then Garth there is a very large security issue (s) knowing there may be other people ( loose lips sinks ships) you have what others want ( not just money). A new mind set must and family/household plan (s) must be put into effect ….. did I mention family, yes family there can lie your greatest threat in a national/city disaster …. think?

#41 Bottoms_Up on 08.04.09 at 6:29 am

ps.
We were in Stratford this weekend and saw three great plays. Also saw this beautiful single for sale, 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 5 minute walk to the theatres/Avon river, 5 minute walk to downtown (asking $229,990):
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=8389208

#42 average joe on 08.04.09 at 6:40 am

I had the same problem as your “Bonnie” but this was 20 years ago. The bank, made an error, a large one , which I politely corrected them on. Their attitude was so pergoritive and dismissive when they were dealing with my money, that I decided to close my account, and go to another bank. The difficulty I had in withdrawing my own funds was obtrusive and insulting. It never occurred to the staff at this bank that had i been treated with a modicum of decency that I would have kept my account open. I still will never do business with that bank. Poor client relations over money take a long time to heal.
BYW did you catch last Saturday’s STAR’s business section “Shelter from the Storm”?
It highlights how the TD bank has been working with customers who are in desperate or near desperate financial straights and helpng them manage their situation (i.e. skipping morgage payments and renegotiating morgages without penalty). Coincidentally that was the bank that we chose to transfer our money to 20 years ago.

#43 RJ on 08.04.09 at 6:41 am

Nice fairy tale. Paper is not rare, Canada has lots of trees.

#44 miketheengineer on 08.04.09 at 8:10 am

Garth et al:

Not all of us have the resources to buy gold. I don’t think it is edible. Nor can you pour it into your tank and drive with it.

A lot of the country folks already know this and are prepared for power outages, snow storms, ice storms etc. The big power black out(back in 2003 I think) caught alot of “city” people without the basics to survive 3 days without power.

So to prepare: 1) extra propane tank for the bbq 2) Big gas can full of gas 3) couple cases bottled water 4) Food enough for about 2 weeks. I have about 20 bags of pasta and the necessary sauces. Hey you don’t need steak. Canned goods, of what ever you think is necessary. 5) pills and necessary medications. 6) about 200 bucks in cash.

That should get most people through any 2 week “problem”. At first signs of trouble, the stores get wiped clean (ie Hurricane Katrina style) Then it could take about 2 weeks to restock. So, if you are covered for 2 weeks you are good to go.

One other poster mentioned before, that they took 5 bucks a week and put it towards their emergency stock. In no time it was built up. Now we don’t have that time. I have read several of the so called experts and several sources are all pointing towards a crisis of some nature in the fall…..so start now, and complete before Sept. Not all of us have money for good coins or other things, but most can get the stuff above and have a minimum preparation.

Keep your fridge full and your supplies up, and you will make it, if and when the emergency comes. If not, you can still eat the pasta.

Good luck to all.

#45 wayupnorth on 08.04.09 at 8:19 am

Garth asks, what would happen if the electronic banking system broke down for a week? well we didn’t get a total breakdown a few weeks ago but in the space of 6 days our only fiber optic cable to the outside got burnt in a forest fire in northern B.C., cut twice in construction work, blew a fuse or something and a couple of other things I forget now which resulted in 7 internet outages, all during business hours. Since cash registers are totaly unusable as well as any type of card basically everything shut down each time. Funny how by the end how many people started paying in cash even though the system was working. I couldn’t believe it he first time someone whipped out a wad of bills to pay a $250 dollar grocery bill! I hadn’t seen that in a dozen years or more.
When you live with one road out and one internet connection and only one major airport and the nearest large center is over a thousand kliks away you tend to be a bit more self sufficient and plan for emergencies. I know many people who have a months supply of food and money just in case. There is probably enough wild game in freezers around here to keep us going for a couple of months at least and hunting season is just about to start.

I think back to the first two thirds of my life in southern Ontario and I can’t imagine the results of similar problems or even forest fires near by. It would be ugly for sure in any large urban center.

#46 Samantha on 08.04.09 at 8:23 am

Shauna –

Most people don’t read those nifty little account contracts, a copy of which the bank gives you when you open an account. Our bank can exercise it’s right, per contract, to delay a “large” withdrawal up to 14 days (business days). Of course, if it was some dire occurrence that necessitated the withdrawal, they might relent on that bit of policy.

And, as I have said here before, banks can and do change their policies to suit their best interests.

Banks don’t like “leakage” – yes, that is the term for large withdrawals. Lovely term. Kind of makes one feel like they think you are incontinent and ready for a depend.

Shauna, I think taking out your RRSP’s was a mistake, and would recommend putting that portion back.

If you keep a reasonable amount accessible in safety deposit boxes and watch for any sign that you might not be able to access these boxes, that should work.

Keeping cash in duct work is just not a good idea. At the very least get a safe – there a small portable safes with reasonable fire ratings that are very inexpensive. Their size makes them easy to hide.

Also, in a fire it is easier to grab a small portable safe (ours looks like a fishing tackle box) and take your cash with you.

Stealth is important with an at home safe. If SHTF or just a random break in/home invasion, the last thing you want is someone with a knife or gun to a loved one’s head while someone is screaming at you to open the safe.

For you and anyone else who is really serious about storing cash at home and stealth, here’s a link: http://www.hiddenpassageway.com/

If you want “full coverage insurance”, Shauna, it is worthwhile to store non perishable food and get a good water filtration system (we have Katadyne drip system). Basic cast iron cooking gear (seasoned properly), utensils/knives/ladle are some of things that can be of practical use in an emergency – man made or otherwise.

To begin, just start with a list of what you would need to consider if everything shut down – supply chain, power etc. Then think about your day and all the things you do or consume that are dependent on these factors.

Water – storage, purification – dehydration and death in 3 days without it.

Food – proper storage containers, means to cook/prepare, store foods with good shelf lives and rotate your stock regularly, grains and don’t forget protein sources – eg. tuna has more protein per serving than salmon. Peanut butter another good source that stores well.

Meds/first aid kit.

That gets you started and there is much info on the Net – just double check info and watch sources to ensure you are getting correct information. I have seen some whoppers during my research.

You can develop your emergency planning even more with non-hybrid seeds (very important as you cannot save the seeds from hybrids for planting the following year). A good book on edible plants/herbs in your locale is also worthwhile. There are lots of food sources all around us, but people don’t recognize the plants or know how to consume them.

Even something as simple as good fishing gear can make a difference. In the Great Depression, the deer were hunted out of many areas and fish depleted out of many waters.

Good luck.

#47 Fred Packenham on 08.04.09 at 8:42 am

Personal Incomes Down, Spending UP

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/04/news/economy/personal_income_spending/index.htm?postversion=2009080408

#48 dave99 on 08.04.09 at 8:42 am

I for one this Shana is a very smart woman. In fact, I would love to drop in and visit her the next time I’m in her area.

Could you forward me her home address?

Not funny. — Garth

#49 you all fools on 08.04.09 at 8:46 am

what Garth was trying to say is we putting too much trust in the digital banking system. If ones has ample warning and want to withdraw a lump sum money to run away. They can’t do it, all a sudden your money is not yours anymore. Last year I wanted to withdraw $5000 for my wedding and the bank, Nova Scotia, wouldn’t let me. They want me to give them 3-5 business day notice and it’s not guaranteed they have the cash either. I end up having to borrow money from relatives to run my wedding. The teller has the nerve to suggest me use my credit card and borrow the money to by pass the policy.
When the banks playing around with numbers who to say who has the right amount of money? Who is doing all the accounting or have the trustworthy to hold the general book?
What proofs do they need to make a transaction to happen in a digital world? Do they actually have they money on hand or just do the transaction and wait for the end of the day to do all the reconcilation. What if people transferred or withdraw more money than the bank actually have?
In gold and paper money at least there is a physical tracking system. You can fake gold and paper money has its own technology to minimize counterfeit. Bill Gate might be the richest guy but tell him to sell his shares and start spending it’ll turn the world upside down.
“Show me the money”

#50 $fromA$ia "Garths Nugget Boy" on 08.04.09 at 8:54 am

Heres a funny story while were on the topic of paper.

There was a pile of human feces left outside a business. The culprit actually wiped their butt with Canadian Tire Money!!!

Mike -You moron, gold melts but its still worth more than ashes.

Afterthought: hey could you imagine Garth whiping his A$$ with gold bars?

#51 Mike B formerly just Mike on 08.04.09 at 10:19 am

Interestingly enough … I have a friend who needed to cash out two large GICs at a local trust company. He just walked in, handed over the certificates, showed ID and boom 10 minutes later had his cheques. Just like that.
He did have to wait 5 days for the cheques to clear of course. Not sure if he tried to take the cheques out in cash… that might be a different story altogether..
Perhaps one could argue that if the banks are so tight with cash then there is little chance of hyperinflation as it seems the banksters want to keep ever last penny for themselves.. Still… I would not be stashing cash in my house unless I had a big assed safe.

#52 Mike (Authentic) on 08.04.09 at 10:24 am

#50 $fromA$ia “Garths Nugget Boy”gold melts but its still worth more than ashes”

Watch your language. No one appreciates being called a Moron and I do take offence to that, but then your “$fromA$ia” and I don’t expect you to speak good engrish anyrays.

Now, just to point the record straight, all I said was gold can melt. PERIOD. Melted gold is worth less due to impurities of a house fire, but I didn’t say anything about it not being worth anything.

Please read before you post so you don’t waste Garth’s and our va$uab$e time.

Mike

#53 Nathan in Edmonton on 08.04.09 at 10:32 am

Smart girl. I would do the same — I imagine that 120k isn’t even a tenth of her wealth… as for me well… “there’s always money in the banana stand”.

#54 Got A Watch on 08.04.09 at 10:33 am

“I just want you to know that there are many Canadians like me (I talk to them and have names) who view your blog as quasi treason.”

ROFL. Garth, congratulations – you’ve hit a raw nerve, and the losers are coming out of the woodwork now, terrified you might burst their bubbles. Reality, it’s too hard to handle for most people it seems.

When speaking the plain truth is “treason”, according to Realt(ho)rs (TM) and all the rest of the financial vampires who are so heavily invested financially and emotionally in ever-growing bubbles – maybe we are getting closer to the end of this sorry period in our history.

That sounds like the final gasps of outrage, before they slink away into the night to hide. If the truth is do damaging, the tissues of lies are just that – toilet paper.

Keep pushing ’em Garth. When they get to sounding so desperate, it means reality is winning.

#55 Ultraman on 08.04.09 at 10:47 am

Shauna is seriously mentally hill and should seek medical advice asap. She’s a danger to herself and the people around her.

#56 joel on 08.04.09 at 11:00 am

Good topic Garth.. I agree about the banks running out of cash or restricting the amount.

I keep cash on hand for emergencies now after the experience with the “Ralphie rebates” here in Alberta about 4 years ago. The Alberta Klein Government send “rebate” cheques out – I was at the bank when they “ran” out of cash while paying bills. These rebates were about $400. I thought if the local bank cannot handle a rush of small rebate cheques – how would they handle an emergency or a mild panic.

Not quite a $120K but enough for a few months. I do follow your advice and have supplies on hand too. I don’t want to be lined up at the store with everyone else if there is a situation.

I think the bank thought this lady was a ninny. I have taken large amount of cash $50K from the bank to buy a car without any issues. Maybe because I am a man?

#57 Kurt on 08.04.09 at 11:09 am

My first reaction to the banks attitude was unprintable. nonplussed has it nailed – withdrawel in cash pulls that amount times the effective reserve ratio out of the system. Despite all the advantages of a fractional reserve system, any financial system that can be threatened by a couple or three paranoids deciding to put their money in cash has serious problems. The more I learn about our system of money, the less I like. Lord, I hope I don’t talk myself into becoming a gold bug.

#58 VOODOO on 08.04.09 at 11:12 am

This blog is starting to scare the $heet out of me!!

#59 Mark on 08.04.09 at 11:15 am

To all the doomsayers… There are actually many many advantages to the government/banks not actually knowing how much money you have….

I’ll leave you all to figure out the blanks here.

#60 Keith in Calgary on 08.04.09 at 11:37 am

I transferred most of our money out of the country over a year ago.

The wife and I withdrew $40K of the remaining $50K in our bank with our ATM cards over a period of 3 weeks, and it sits locked up in a UL2 grade media safe. No worries here……..

#61 Travis on 08.04.09 at 11:48 am

I took out $30K cash last summer. The bank acted like it was ‘their’ money, and told me they did not have that much on hand. After refusing to leave without some money, they finally found $30K in their vault. I invested some in Gold and some in Ammo. The Ammo has doubled in price. The Gold is about the same amount.

#62 SpencerBC AKA CAILiberals on 08.04.09 at 11:48 am

Hey Squidly77

Read it again. It is vitriol not ‘vitorol’. This is a perfectly correct word in its context. Note the i, as in idiot.

#63 MenWithHats on 08.04.09 at 11:59 am

“Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven’t fallen asleep yet”

#64 betamax on 08.04.09 at 12:03 pm

If Shauna wants to be careful, she should also wear a motorcycle helmet in the shower, because the odds are greater that she’ll slip and crack her noggin there than that of catastrophic bank failure.

Long term, the money extracted will simply lose the bulk of its value thanks to inflation. Shauna would be better off blowing it in Vegas — at least then she might have some fun out of it.

#65 Repatriated Expat on 08.04.09 at 12:23 pm

Trying to get your own cash out of financial institutions is not a straigtforward experience, if you don’t think so then try it for yourself. It really is amazing.

Institutions for employee group plans like Sunlife or Manulife construct websites as though they are sales brochures for dummies with no mention / resources about getting your cash out. Last time I called trying to get some non-registered cash out I was put on hold for quite a while and then given a plethora of rules / withdrawl limits and so on. Enough to discourage me for withdrawing the money at the time.

Taking it a step further, when applying for a mortgage in the US, we had to write a letter explaining and documenting where we got the downpayment cash from. Apparently working and saving for 20+ years is not an acceptable qualification. This may be all for anti-laundering reasons, however, you are still left with the feeling that your money is no longer your business.

#66 $fromA$ia "Garths Nugget Boy" on 08.04.09 at 12:31 pm

60 Keith in Calgary on 08.04.09 at 11:37 am
I transferred most of our money out of the country over a year ago.

The wife and I withdrew $40K of the remaining $50K in our bank with our ATM cards over a period of 3 weeks, and it sits locked up in a UL2 grade media safe. No worries here……..
_____________________________________________

LOL, I hope you didn’t transfer your money from Canada to USA LOL!!!
_____________________________________________

Mike is your last name Hunt? LOL C’mon we all say stupid things from time to time. Did I mention Garth said gold will probably hit $500 again. Sure Garth if the housing market corrects you might get your wish.
Mike

#67 K. J. M. on 08.04.09 at 12:38 pm

AND DON’T FORGET FINTRAC . . .

Financial Transaction and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada

Good story. Several months ago, I also removed a large sum of cash from my bank. They gave me the same runaround and stories. They also told me they didn’t want me to keep cash in my safe deposit box. I asked them why not – what else were safe deposit boxes for except to secure valuables. They said: “Well what if the bank burned?” I reminded them that the vault was very thick concrete with a fireproof door and a sprinkler system inside. Next they said: “well what if the bank is bombed?” We live in a very small, landlocked town where the odds of terrorists, bank robbers or random bombs from North Korea arriving at our bank are nil. You should have seen the look on the face of the teller who was involved with these procedures, when the manager said that! She obviously had never imagined she had been in danger from a mad bomber and was obviously confused herself, why the bank wasn’t giving me my money!

The very idea of being robbed of your cash when you leave the bank is ridiculous. Business owners carry these amounts of money in and out of the bank every day and we’ve never had an attempted robbery of any of them!

The most annoying and invasive part of this situation is the fact that the bank files a report with “Big Brother” notifying FINTRAC of anyone’s movement of funds (in or out) over $10,000. So talk about being treated like a criminal – we’re all now on the governments “watch list” of our becoming possible criminals and money launders!

I did get my cash eventually and do feel much better prepared. I feel my money is more secure in my own hands. I am also greatly relieved to have pulled all my money from the stock markets, mutual funds, etc. Now I have no sleepless nights or ill effects as the markets rise and fall like the whims of a madman uncertain of anything!

K. J. M.

#68 charles on 08.04.09 at 12:45 pm

Couple ot thoughts not yet mentioned.

Should you or a family member draw the attention of the law this kind of cash could be called proceeds of crime depending on the officials view of the world on a given day.

Could you prove taxes were paid on this money?

Try to use common sense out there.

#69 dd on 08.04.09 at 1:02 pm

If the panic button is pressed is money really the best place to store wealth? Seems like the place to store wealth would be anything but cash: Land that can produce food, wheat, oil, gold, livestock etc. A diversified portfolio of REAL goods.

#70 The 'VULTURE' on 08.04.09 at 1:18 pm

“Scary Bedtime Story”

I am a really big fan of Garth Turner (own most of his books, planning on purchasing all of them). I am also an entrepreneur, investor and I am scared to death at what is going on in the Canadian economy, especially the banking and mortgage sectors and this “free money nonsense” record low interest rate environment. I do understand Kennesian Economic Theory by the way…

By reading and following much of Garth’s advice and teachings I have avoided altogether the recent (last fall 2008) stock market collapse, the real estate bubble and this current (in my most humble opinion) economic depression. Garth is my main man now. Pure respect…

Don’t get me wrong…I LOVE practically free money…what concerns me is the real reasons behind the “free lunch” and that is today’s “scary bedtime story”….Close that closet door, lock the windows, don’t look under the bed and whatever you do, don’t look into any mirror or your banker’s books….

I was with a friend recently at a local bookstore and of course I was going through the business section and I spotted “After The Crash” (Garth Turner) and quickly grabbed the last copy and raced to the front to pay for it (I had been looking for the book for a while). My friend and I then headed over to Starbucks to get some coffee (he’s paying of course!) I began to read the book and I could not put it down. Scared the hell out of me. Most startling book I have ever read in my life and a big wakeup call to everyone. (I have read The Great Reckoning, Blood in the Streets, Irrational Exuberance but After The Crash is on a totally different level). As we were leaving my friend says to me, “what the hell is wrong with you, you look like you have just seen a ghost” to which I responded, “I have…It’s our current global economic crisis situation”

I understand where Garth is coming from big time…He saved me in the past so he is very real to me and I highly respect his writings. After reading “After The Crash” (my current favourite book!) I transferred out all of my money from a particular “safe” (sure thing, whatever….) “Canadian Bank” after seeing record losses of over 2 billion dollars recently. This information was never really prominent in the media and I had to do some real digging to find this data. Everyone that I have mentioned this to looks at me literally clueless stating “who cares…our banks are the safest in the world”. Hmmm…whatever… Humerously, the manager tried to get me to buy some of their mutual funds (a basket of loser funds mainly with big recent negative returns or crummy 25-40 basis point returns after hungry MERs) instead of transferring out!

Could there be a run on a major bank here in Canada? It has happened in other countries. I don’t want to be Canada’s first banking guinea pig if you know what I mean. I respect my hard earned money, what about you and your bank?

This is a bed time story where you can create your own ending…Garth gave me some wise direction in this current economic insanity and I made my story end fortunately with a happy ending. How will your scary bedtime story end? Don’t open that closet door, there might be some really big skeletons hidden in there to ruin your financial health and your scary bedtime story.

#71 artisuseless on 08.04.09 at 1:21 pm

I wouldn’t read too much into what the banks do. I remember in the late 90s at a fairly broke time for myself and I went to the bank to try to cash a GST cheque – you know, about 50 bucks, issued by the government and all. Well the bank said it still had to be held for three days! I pointed out that if the gov’t couldn’t cover $50 then the bank would have more to worry about than being out $50 to me…

Bankers are probably just over paranoid sometimes – about money laundering, identity theft, some sort of ransom needing to be paid. Who knows – but anything out of the ordinary is a red flag.

I do think wanting that much cash on hand is a tad paranoid – I could see having a few grand and if 120K is two years’ living expenses, well, maybe she could also learn to be a little more frugal?

#72 CalgaryRocks on 08.04.09 at 1:23 pm

I think Shaunna has bigger problems than having to take 6 trips to the bank rather than 1. Hopefully she’ll be able to get to a mental case specialist in the next year or 2 for some valuable counseling.

#73 Backbacon Crusader on 08.04.09 at 1:28 pm

This is why I have accounts at three seperate financial institutions. While I currently have enough cash on hand in an old coffee can to get me through a few weeks of financial upheaval, if I sniff the winds of collapse, I have three seperate accounts from which I can make sizeable withdrawls over the course of a week. All combined, without bank hassle, I can withdraw about six months worth of cash in the event of impending emergency.

My view is, if I need anything more than six months, the financial crisis is such that cash is going to be worthless anyway.

#74 TJ on 08.04.09 at 1:38 pm

Fintrac. That and the fact that fractional reserve is more like 30-1, than the reported 10-18%.

I sold our home in July, and asked for $30,000 in twenties and the Credit Manager asked me what I needed the money for!
I mean, why don’t you come over and see what kind of aftershave I use.

Can you imagine?
I said quietly, “None of your business, sir. I just sold my home, paid you off and I can do what I want with the money – and here’s what I am going to do”.

I picked up my Iphone and called VanCity Credit Union – right from his office. I asked to speak to someone in accounts. I asked if I could make an appointment with their Credit manager and wanted to deposit a large sum, plus I needed $30K in cash when we got the account opened and the amount deposited.
(*The Credit Managers face was chalk grey at this point). Appointment set – I got up and shook his hand, and made plans to move the close to 550K in various accounts- ” I have dealt with this bank for 34 years….goodbye….”

This would be a good time to split up your money among banks, have some physical SILVER, easier to use as ARGENT, when the ship hits the rocks, have some gold for real security, some cash, to last you at least a week – and realize the Banks are NOT your friend.

#75 PTDBD on 08.04.09 at 1:43 pm

Wow, the Garth is really stirring the pot. He is morphing into a more manic ChickenLittle’sYoungerBrother. His “what ifs” didn’t even include an asteroid hitting the bank.

The bank never runs out of money. It’s only printed paper from the paperprestidigitizer.

After Bernanke’s Town Hall meeting they passed out shredded cash according to Ben Bernanke Was Incredibly, Uncannily Wrong story. On a TV interview he points to pallets of money, ready to be distributed. And every day the paper boy brings more.
This article has all of Bernanke’s quotes where he was horribly wrong in assessing the financial system.

Goldman’s employees are being urged not to flaunt their bonuses. No big purchases, and the garden girls cannot number more tha five. You know, all those prestidigitized trillions are getting out there, despite what Bernanke tells you. They’ll end up driving the commodities higher again and there will be shortages of Beemers.

Don’t bet against the markets. You’ll be betting against your own tax money at work. At work, for others of course. Speaking of which…

It’s about time Canada got onto this cash for clunkers program, eh! My 50,000 rustbuckets are costing a ton in insurance and registration fees. I figure to open a new car dealership and then buy the clunkers from myself. This will give my dealership the seed credit to claim an inventory of new cars on paper which I will then personally buy at huge discounts using my new credit. I’ll then sell them back to the dealership for profit before they are delivered and will eventually have them sitting there for the greater fools to buy at huge markup.

Diamonds from rust.

#76 moneyman on 08.04.09 at 1:47 pm

To all those who love “lending to the church”:

Want to see what interest rates banks pay to savers in Australia, look at what 180 days term deposit can get you down under: A whooping 4.50% +!!!!!

http://www.infochoice.com.au/banking.aspx

What wouldn’t we do to get that???????

I wonder whether something in the style of Gandhi ‘s Salt March……………

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Satyagraha

#77 Andrew toronto on 08.04.09 at 2:00 pm

talking about banks ….

For the first time since 1914, there is a public debate in Congress over the Federal Reserve’s power. Never before has a majority of the House of Representatives called for what should always have existed: Congressional scrutiny over the FED’s money. Bernanke says that Ron Paul’s bill to audit the Federal Reserve is a bill to audit Federal Reserve policy. Yet the bill says nothing about auditing policy. So, what is he talking about?

KEEPING DEPOSITORS IN THE DARK

Bernanke says this bill is all about criticizing Federal Reserve policy. Not really. It is all about exposing policy to the public, and letting them decide where to deposit their money.

This thought of depositors finding out which banks are at risk is what the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 to prevent. The banking cartel must prevent bank runs from spreading. If the public had explicit information on what the FED did and why, the public would be in a position to pull their money out of illiquid, economically insolvent large banks.

http://news.goldseek.com/LewRockwell/1249244807.php

#78 Larry on 08.04.09 at 2:02 pm

It’s her money so she does what she wants with it, however the withdrawal story is a shocker.

#79 Silicon Prairie on 08.04.09 at 2:07 pm

The punchline is that it’s still not real, it’s just a big pile of paper!

(in case anyone mistakes me for some of the other commenters here, I don’t own or have any interest in owning gold as an investment or store of value, not even in my account held at a bank that I’ve never been to and managed entirely online)

#80 kitchener1 on 08.04.09 at 2:08 pm

Not a good idea and here is why-

Check with your respective home insurance policy, in most cases the maximum allowable coverage for cash at home is $500. If the house burns down, its all gone,

Same thing with saftey deposit boxes, read the fine print–it will say that they are not insured by the bank.

Nothing wrong with having a few thousand lying around–think 5K but 120, that is just risky. In a SHTF scenerio you dont want to become known as the person that is walking around with cash.

As for the bank waiver, the bank is just protecting itself from the risk of being sued or held responsible should you get robbed upon leaving the premsises.

As for bank staff and their attitudes, they beleive that the system is infallable, plus in your examples case, she was well under the CDIC insurance limit should something happen. the only reason for a banking holiday would be a currency collapse, the loonie is not collapsing anytime soon.

Not a currency collapse you should fear but a financial liquidity crunch. — Garth

#81 Greg on 08.04.09 at 2:16 pm

Hey #15 Harold, have you ever heard of saving up to buy something? or are you the type that finances his $500 sofa from Leon’s Furniture?

#82 jess on 08.04.09 at 2:20 pm

the punctuated equilibrium was punctuated with expletives…starting to sound like our house.

“Mr. Geithner told the regulators Friday that “enough is enough,” said one person familiar with the meeting. Mr. Geithner said regulators. “reuters

…i guess he was reminding them of who is in charge.

#83 brett on 08.04.09 at 2:24 pm

Even doomers like Garth are against gold, it must be on the verge of doubling within a year.

120K of cash on hand is dumb. 5 k is more like it, the rest in gold, stored food/water, tools, weapons.

What can you buy with a piece of gold? — Garth

#84 Cara on 08.04.09 at 2:27 pm

I wonder about some of these posters at times.

#35 Gold bugger – thank God that there are still a few people left to think critically in this world. I was going to pen a response to the idiot Willsdad, but you said everything I had to say, and much nicer. :)

I have been, as the Mormons do (not a Mormon myself) building a small supply of “extra” food. Just the type of thing I’m going to continue using myself. They store what they eat, and eat what they store. That principle works for me, and it’s pretty handy to be able to run downstairs instead of the grocery store.

#85 Barb ..no longer a proof reader, got all the proof I need on 08.04.09 at 2:34 pm

Shauna,
If you’re going to keep emergency cash, you’ve overestimated already. The amount you’ve cashed out will keep you living in luxury for that period. But it won’t be a “luxury” time, so you’ll in fact “need” far less. My family and others live on less than $30K per year in normal times.
As a former fire claims adjuster, let me advise you that putting money in a duct is a ridiculous idea. Invest in the best fireproof safe you can find. You can hide a portable safe within a locked, hidden, safety cupboard in your home. If you need to flee the home at least you can take the safe with you. If you are not home and a fire breaks out, at least the cash can possibly make it through, if the safe itself is fireproof.
Put your creative juices into locating an ideal area in your home, close to a fire exit, where you can build a hidden, (secret) locked cupboard for that fireproof portable safe to hide in.

#86 Madame Guillotine on 08.04.09 at 2:38 pm

If you have a mortgage, try making a regular monthly payment in cash straight into to your mortgage account.If you do not like banks do it when they are at their busiest.

#87 ralph on 08.04.09 at 3:46 pm

Keep in mind that so called fire proof safes are rated to protect up to a certain temperature for a stated time only.

Buy the best safe money will buy.

#88 David Bakody on 08.04.09 at 3:51 pm

#83 brett on 08.04.09 at 2:24 pm

Hey cowboy ….. it is sad day when someone breaks into your home, finds weapons, loads em and holds you hostage or worst! Most of the illegal weapons seized by police are stolen weapons ….. catching on yet?

#89 Argentum Aurum on 08.04.09 at 4:06 pm

Garth writes: “Not a currency collapse you should fear but a financial liquidity crunch. — Garth”

This sounds different from a power outage or a fiber optic cable going bust.

Why should we fear a financial liquidity crunch with all the money being printed? Seems to me there would be plenty of cash for everyone.

Is it because RE and other loans turned sour? Aren’t those just accounting electronic entries though?

#90 smw on 08.04.09 at 4:10 pm

If you need to diversify your “emergency” holdings, silver has more upside. Gold has been flat since its peak, silver is down by 50% of its peak.

Also…

Gold Maple Leaf is $50 legal tender, Silver Maple Leaf is $5 legal tender. It cost approximately $1000 dollars to buy a Gold Maple Leaf, and $20 for a Silver Maple Leaf, from a dealer, such as kitco.com.

$120K in silver = 6000 coins @ $30K legal tender. (375lbs)

$120K in gold = 120 coins @ $6000 legal tender. (8lbs)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1989_Queen_Elizabeth.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Gold_Maple_Leaf_coin_II_nobackground.png

Think you’ll need a decent sized safe to hold those 6000 one ounce coins.

#91 $fromA$ia "Garths Nugget Boy" on 08.04.09 at 4:15 pm

What can you buy with a piece of gold? — Garth

You can buy money with gold at any bank or trader-$.

The context of this post was options during a bank closure. — Garth

#92 Chris no longer in England on 08.04.09 at 4:52 pm

Inspired by the end of today’s blog “US Housing Slump not over yet?” the UK shows it won’t be outdone in this area. See some of Garth’s predictions for the future coming eerily true, as homeowners find themselves owing more than they are able to pay in mortgage fees (39% of Northern Rock mortgage holders and apparently rising). See also how a state rescued bank does not appear to be rescued after all, but is still floundering despite the kiss of life ££££s applied, as many of its still solvent customers desert for better deals elsewhere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8182751.stm

#93 MenWithHats on 08.04.09 at 4:55 pm

Bonnie :
Do as you like .Listen to Barb’s advice .
Do not listen to the critics as they.fpr the most part,do not have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of .

#94 Keith in Calgary on 08.04.09 at 5:11 pm

#87 Ralph…..

Correct, and buying a safe capable of holding a media cooler is better than just a safe designed to provide protection to paper.

In the case of my UL2 media safe after 2 hours at a constant 1,850 degrees the internal temperature is less than 350 degrees, whereas paper starts to singe at 400 degrees. Inside the cooler I get <350 degrees for 3 hours. As I live in a modern building with a fire extinguisher in every room, and it is made out of concrete and steel I am not too worried.

#88 David…….

That is a chance worth taking…….please post links to what must be numerous media articles where what you infer can happen has actually taken place here in Canada.

#95 Solitario on 08.04.09 at 5:15 pm

I don’t understand the point of the story.
People like Shauna- I don’t think we should point the finger at them…mental handicap is a terrible illness.
People like that should not be allowed to have a say in money matters. Relatives should take a stand here. Not only is Shauna risking losing all this money in a fire, flood, tornado – but her own safety is at stake.

If the point is why are the banks only reluctantly allowing large cash withdrawals, there are plenty of legitimate reasons for it…think drug-dealing, terrorism funding, money laundering and so on…
I’m pretty sure that raised a flag and at least one of Canada’s related agencies had to take a look at Shauna’s “profile”…

#96 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 08.04.09 at 5:26 pm

Just think of the trail of ALERTS her withdrawal caused? CSIS, RCMP, OPP, BoC, Fed Res, FBI, CIA, NSA, InterPol, NYSE, TSX, why we know only Drug Dealers and terrorists make those kind of actual physical cash transactions.

Makes me wonder how the police handle their deposits of confiscated cash?

Now, anyone who thinks knows that all your money is really nothing more than digital data in the bank’s computer system. People have more Canadian Tire paper money than actual cash nowadays.

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message, however a few million electrons were inconvenienced!

#97 Davinci on 08.04.09 at 5:40 pm

“What can you buy with a piece of gold? — Garth”

During 9/11 banks where closed but coin shops and jewelery shops where open to buy gold and silver for cash.

Many people did.

In Zimbabwe people accept gold not dollars or food.

If you have 1 million net worth and have 100k in physical gold then don’t worry it’s good enough.

I am 100% in gold and silver because I know what reality is. Paper money is wrong according to all religions and the constitution of the USA.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson

Truth is treason in an empire of lies!

How’s that Zimbabwe visa thing going for you? — Garth

#98 encanto on 08.04.09 at 5:43 pm

Dear Garth and commenters,

I was so glad to read the blog this morning as I realized I could ask a question now I have been waiting to introduce.

I found a note to myself to pick up a book called One Second After by William R. Forstchen. I could not remember who had suggested I read it, and wondered if it was one of you on this site.

Althoug it is a fictional accounting, it was written as a very plausible outcome after an (EMP) Electormagnetic Pulse weapon hits a small North Carolina town.

The author , a PHD from Purdue,with specializations in military history and the history of technology, spells out step by step how humanity returned to the dark ages within weeks.

This book was cited in the american congress as a book every american should read. It was discussed in the pentagon as a realistic look at EMP`s and their ability to send catastrophic shockwaves thorugh a country within seconds This could shut down a nation warns The Wall Street Journal.

I strongly urge any of you who see logic in today`s blog to get this book and read it. It fits perfectlly `After the Crash` After reading it you will not be sending comments that with : gold you could buy cash`:

Perhaps you all know this book and are moaning now, but I have only found this site a few months ago so this is all new and very very informative to me.

thank you

#99 Devil's Advocate on 08.04.09 at 5:51 pm

93 blog posts in less than 20 hours… wow you really stirred things up on this one Garth!

What really amazes me is how many think this is a story that has such a very rare chance of occurrence. Even more than that; how many miss the point of the story – that we place such blind trust in such a potentially vaporous banking system. Paper money at risk in ducts?!? Get real. Your wealth stored in a computers memory is no less susceptible to loss – it’s happened before and can happen again.

But the gold thing interests me; especially should inflation ensue rather than deflation. Should gold rise substantially in value, for what ever reason, having a stash of it in your backyard seems a very good, and secure, way to increase one’s net worth hidden from the CRA and those very probable increasing taxes that loom on the horizon. At the very least it is a good insurance policy… as good as any other I suspect. But if it came to that I suspect there would be other problems… i.e. the potential outlawing of the holding of physical gold.

We do live in interesting times. I suspect that the future holds some very surprising events in store, most of which we would prefer to avoid.

#100 cowgirl kiss on 08.04.09 at 5:59 pm

I was at a conference in Orlando last week, and the keynote speaker was from England. He said that last year the banks in the UK were just hours away from freezing the ATM machines during the crash. Not sure if it is true or not, but the concept made me think about having some cash around. So how much is enough?

#101 Devil's Advocate on 08.04.09 at 6:00 pm

“As a growing number of economists are coming to realize, LaRouche has been right: This is not a recession. It is not even a Great Depression. This is the collapse of the entire global dollar-based financial system. The insane policies of both the Bush and Obama administrations have created the greatest financial bubble in history, through the $24 trillion bailout of the banks and insurance companies. We are on the verge of Weimar hyperinflation on a global scale.”

A very logical assessment IMO

#102 Barb .. a reader in Calgary on 08.04.09 at 6:16 pm

#96 Bill-Muskoka: “Just think of the trail of ALERTS her withdrawal caused”

LOL Bill, that happened to us.

Years back, hub always took advantage of the mileage point offers — he’d go to the bank and transfer 5 or 10 big from our VIP account to VISA or vice versa, thereby receiving air mileage bonus points. One year he was suddenly questioned and the transaction flagged and held up. Our own bank of 30 years stopped a simple transfer within our own accounts saying they had to check to make sure it wasn’t terrorist money! Thereafter we had many laughs over him being treated like a terrorist by our own bank.

#103 Jeannie on 08.04.09 at 6:43 pm

Shauna is probably a ‘worrier’…having her money close at hand relieves her stress and gives her a feeling of control over her life.
Hiding the money in the ductwork…well she and her husband and the dog know that it’s there, lets just hope that they don’t get into a fatal accident.
That money will either rot, or be found by the next buyer of their house.
Hope she leaves a sealed letter with her will, with duct instructions for family members.

#104 char on 08.04.09 at 6:49 pm

Smart Woman !

Most banks are a short step away from a ponzi scheme, and the trick is to get out early. And please, if they cared about our ‘safety’ they wouldn’t be constantly trying to push mutual funds on us.

It may be smart to have some US cash too, because everyone thinks it will crash (therefore it won’t).

#105 Chris L. on 08.04.09 at 7:36 pm

I was closing on a house a few years ago and needed to move money around for the downpayment last minute. I ask for cash when and they said I should pay for a money order as it was ‘safer.’ I explained that I was just going to walk across the street anyway to the next bank so I didn’t really care. I also said I didn’t want to pay for the MO either since I didn’t want to pay for my money with money especially since it had no purpose. By the way I asked for $1k bills, but apparently they don’t make those (at least what the teller said). Anyway, after talking around they decided to just give me a free MO. I guess it’s the same thing, they didn’t have cash on hand to cover me. I didn’t care at the time and it wasn’t a ton of cash either. I wouldn’t be that dumb to even walk from one side to the other side with a huge wad of cash. I’d probably get hit by a bus! Good luck with your 120k. Lots of sleepless nights ahead of you. Just be sure your firebox is rated at least for 12 hours of flame!

#106 Seilfworcehtsa on 08.04.09 at 7:43 pm

Looks like a 32 Ford V8(Ford Flathead) parked behind Bonnie … Clyde could have have picked it up new at the local Ford dealer for $460 but he probably stole it. In any case it was a great getaway car for a bank robber due to its speed and reliability. It also helped Ford weather the Great Depression. Bonnie and Clyde were considered heroes because their robbing banks pleased the people. Today the bankers rob the people to please themselves or was it ever thus. As for the lady hiding her dough in the air duct or whatever…OMG give me a break!!!!

#107 PenGun on 08.04.09 at 7:46 pm

Silver is cheap. It’s nice stuff too. Useful and pretty. Rare enough to have it’s own value as well.

#108 Jon B on 08.04.09 at 7:50 pm

Great story. I’d say that all of the five colluding big banks are always a one way street on policy. They are large and in charge and carry themselves that way. Ever try talking back to a bank manager? They seem so polite.

#109 Third Chimp on 08.04.09 at 7:54 pm

#3 Wills Dad – Your unfortunate slam against homeschooling displays a huge ignorance of it, typical herd thinking, different is bad. I think this link will serve as my rebuttal:
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com -or- here’s a snip
“let’s continue to mindlessly send our children off to “learning” institutions, where they will be properly supervised at all times, bored half to death, medicated into submission should they rebel, even by simply refusing to pay attention, not taught anything worth knowing by demoralized, underpaid public servants, and then spat out into the world with their spirits crushed.”

#110 jess on 08.04.09 at 8:05 pm

very interesting reversal for some

http://wealthforcommongood.org/wealth-for-common-good-delivers-petition-to-president-congress/

#111 To Harold, #15 on 08.04.09 at 8:28 pm

Harold, you trust them because you are an idiot. Without the fractional reserve you would not have to compete with other idiots selling their future for a cardboard shack. Whatever is produced would still have to go towards whatever is consumed, except for already proven equity, like cash in hand. …instead of going towards the promises of halfwits that they will be able to pay it back.

I am bitter because of the realization that we are not suffering because of the weasels but because of retards like you.

Attack the logic, not the person. — Garth

#112 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 08.04.09 at 8:39 pm

Notwithstanding airheads, witch doctors, The Traveling Wilburys — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOS1PGPg8pk — it is time to focus on something which is quietly growing.

In the far reaches of Lapland, a new sport is taking the country by storm. Physically and mentally very demanding, I provide a clip which shows first-hand what is involved . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U0tDU37q2M&feature=PlayList&p=9FB7C52F143EE201&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30

One recommendation — avoid breathing at all costs!
——
“What can you buy with a piece of gold? — Garth” — For a half ton nugget, you an have me with all taxes included!

Speaking of stuff — http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23182.htm

“. . . The fact is the Net Wealth of US Households has “declined from a peak of $22 trillion to just under $12 trillion in early March. Ouch!”
——
Guernsey is the second-largest of the Channel Islands, just off the north coast of France. Jersey, where I lived for 19 years is the largest (approx. 45 sq. miles).

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/10/15/the-guernsey-experiment/

“If the States (govt.) could fund projects by issuing its own bank notes rather than borrowing from a private bank, there would be no interest to pay, leading to substantial savings. . . . Full employment and price stability were achieved without deficits or a penny paid in interest.”
——
No link, but this does raise an interesting point, esp. the comment by wrh.com at the end. Looks like the US and Israel will go to every length possible to illegally justify a war just like Iraq, except now the WH has said that the election was legal, which was known all along.

“Three detained U.S. hikers share love of travel, learning

“Shane Bauer, Sarah Shourd and Joshua Fattal — three University of California-Berkeley graduates arrested Friday after crossing from Iraq into Iran during a hike — are seasoned travelers with an appetite for interaction with other cultures, friends and associates said.”

Webmaster’s Commentary: “So, if they are expert travelers, in an age where every cell phone has a built-in GPS, how is it that three Jewish Americans “accidentally” crossed the border into Iran?

“Wag the hiker? Interesting how hard they are trying to link the hikers to Iran’s nuclear power plant.”

#113 Basil Fawlty on 08.04.09 at 9:00 pm

From the Associated Press today:
“Other figures in an Associated Press analysis underscore the recession’s impact: Individual income tax receipts are down 22 percent from a year ago. Corporate income taxes are down 57 percent. Social Security tax receipts could drop for only the second time since 1940, and Medicare taxes are on pace to drop for only the third time ever.

The last time the government’s revenues were this bleak, the year was 1932 in the midst of the Depression.”
Welcome to the jungle.

#114 Eduardo on 08.04.09 at 9:20 pm

I’m not even going to read this post or the comments because the suggestion to have that much cash is ridiculous.

#115 slopetester on 08.04.09 at 9:28 pm

A former PM (King) was quoted as follows (in ’33): “Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talks of the sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile… Once a nation parts with the control of its credit,
it matters not who makes the laws…. ” “Usury once in control will wreck the nation.” The quote was during the heart of the Depression, shortly after FDR outlawed Gold ownership, and the Banks were shrinking the money supply. The point of his quote IMO was to recognize the necessity of a Government owned Bank that could finance projects/welfare/wars interest free. He recognized that standing in line at a private bank to borrow the nations money supply would “wreck the nation” eventually. In 05 our own Moinister of Finance stated that $34 Billion was required to service the debt. Experiments with usurious money ALWAYS end in total failure/collapse. We are close. So ask your MP why we do not use the Bank of Canada to finance the projected $150 Billion deficit the Feds are projecting to 2014, and instead will borrow this ‘money’ from the Banksters? Maybe because it’s really not owned by the Government. Great essay here on this subject: http://www.members.shaw.ca/theultimatescam/The%20Bank%20of%20Canada.htm

#116 conan on 08.04.09 at 9:28 pm

Garth is it quasi treason, in these dificult economic times , to get financial advise from a Monty Python video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sNJhX0x7yI

Who is the quasi treasonist? LOL

#117 David on 08.04.09 at 9:54 pm

Shauna should reconsider her actions. The economy is bad and the banking industry’s irresponsible behaviour is in no small measure one of the principal causes. Hiding cash in the duct work sounds like a non solution that will not change anything. This type of behaviour did not eliminate the Dust Bowl prairies in the 1930’s and there is no reason to believe it will work any better today.

I think she cares more about herself than the prairies. — Garth

#118 Jody on 08.04.09 at 10:06 pm

Why do so many people have a hate on for gold? Is it because if gold and/or other metals were used on their own or as part of a metals backed currency the government would have a hard time getting it’s mitts on your money? Everyones precious social program goes away because people can actually keep the wealth they create?
Imagine competing currencies backed by metals, sort of like having multiple currencies as the reserve currency instead of just one, which is what got us into this mess. Gold, silver and other metals have always been used to buy stuff, they always will be, no fiat currency can ever compete. I may exchange silver for food, then the shopkeeper I gave it to buys some ammo with it. Metals will always get you food, somewhere there will be someone who wants it and/or needs it. Don’t forget the indstrial uses these metals have, that alone gives them a value. There is enough metal out there for hundreds of competing currencies, wealth is not limited, it is limitless and grows, that is, until governments kill it with stupidity.
Just like the lady in this story you don’t want all of one commodity, all cash, all gold, mix things up. Of course the most valuable stuff – people, friends and family and if you have land, there you go. Instead of putting her fiat money into a duct she should use it to buy some land, build and grow valuble commodities like food. Buy some metals, guns and ammo and she is set.

#119 Sean in E-Town on 08.05.09 at 7:41 am

And the first moral of the story is that the government doubling M1 will not trigger an avalanche of inflation. The second moral is that the government could do quite well for itself (and by extension, us) by introducing a slowly climbing reserve requirement and printing bills to make up the deficit, until we’re somewhere in the sane range again (25-50% of deposits).

#120 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 08.05.09 at 8:30 am

102 Barb .. a reader in Calgary

LOL with you! I remember when the U.S. brought in the $10K trigger. It was clear then that they were worried about cashouts by customers using the guise of ‘security.’ How often are the honest folks inconvenienced by the few criminals the politicians are too cowardly to protect us from? I think we can thank Tricky Dick Nixon for it all fter he took the U.S. off the Gold Standard and put the world on the petro dollar standard.

I also remember a situation which I, but not the airport gate security moron, thought was illustrative of brainless policies. I was boarding a flight in Duluth, MN and had a rolled up graphic, about 30 inches long and 1.5 inches in diameter. You could see straight through it, but the security ‘guard’ insisted it be unrolled. I asked ‘what do you think is in there a nuclear bomb?’ Oh my God, the idiot got all in a tizzy. I just complied, shook my head, and boarded the plane after being warned of the dire consequences of joking with airport security. This was back in the 1970’s long before 9/11 or anything else. It has gotten worse now.

I now firmly believe in devolution because the evidence is overwhelming.

#121 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 08.05.09 at 8:38 am

#98 encanto

You also might want to read Tom Clancy’s “Executive Orders’ in which an irate son of a Hiroshima victim hacks the stock exchange computers and brings about a worlwide crash. That is followed up by his commandering a 747 and flying it into the U.S. Capitol during the State of The Union address killing almost everyone including the President and Vice President.

Clancy, ironically, wrote this book long before 9/11 so it begs the question ‘Did Clancy know about such plans, or did the U.S. Goverment copy the scenario and stage the entire thing?’

#122 Chris no longer in England on 08.05.09 at 9:06 am

Well I recently sorted through almost 20 years of stuff, as I had to pare it all down in order to move. I had piles and piles of paper (not money) that had survived four house moves, no burglaries, no fire, no floods. Of course it wasn’t worth anything to someone else so I was happy to leave the back door unlocked for the past 12 years without worrying. If Shauna can sleep at night with that much money in the house, that’s fine by me. I also don’t think she said at any point that she took ALL of her money out of the bank, and this is perhaps a wrong assumption. What if she still has the same amount IN the bank, a similar amount in gold and why not the same amount in silver too? We don’t know!

#123 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 08.05.09 at 9:10 am

I meant to mention, storing cash in a heating duct is the worst place possible as they act as communication paths during a fire. POOF!

I think any sensible person would pick the cold air return. — Garth

#124 brett on 08.05.09 at 9:55 am

Garth, you can buy cash with a piece of gold.

In toronto I now see 3 different outfits advertising cash for gold on TV. They are screaming for it… ” I LOVE GOLD….GIVE ME YOUR GOLD….I PAY CASH FOR GOLD!!!!

Is that the TV guy with the singing bootie behind him? Yes, credible. — Garth

#125 brett on 08.05.09 at 9:59 am

#88 ok, you’re right, I will not store weapons, i will rely on the 911 operator and the police to protect me, that makes perfect sense.

#126 Davinci on 08.05.09 at 10:57 am

Garth you asked me how my gold visa is doing in Zimbabwe. So if I asked you how was your Madoff investments doing back in 2007 you would say very well. Did that mean it was not a ponzi scam back then?

Thus when the monetary system collapses does it mean it was a viable system before it collapsed? Sure, your assertion is it will never collapse thus the answer is no to both questions. So I ask that you remember that when they hand you a new fiat floating peace of crap money, all the while the news will be blaming the dollar collapse on something else. Thus giving you a reason to believe that the system would have continued if it where not for XYZ event.

You will believe any lie they tell you because if you did not, you would be wrong all along. And that’s one truth you do not want to face.

It’s not like I don’t understand, I also defended paper money and defended what I was told on TV for a very long time.

And I went through all of the following stages..

– Shock
– Denial
– Anger
– Bargaining
– Depression
– Acceptance

I was in the denial stage for a very long time because it was easy, everyone else believes the lie so why can’t I.

It is my hope that my writings and videos awaken just one person. If it does it will be enough because it will matter to that one person.

If you’re going to awake anyone, try to do it with honesty and meaningful comparisons. Madoff appealed only to the greedy and ignorant (I hope you are not fishing in the same pool). He did not counsel people on investment assets, but rather took cheques made payable to him. Accredited Canadian investment advisors would never do this. Meanwhile the greatest mistake most folks make is to try to figure out their finances on their own. You may be the exception, but most fail badly. — Garth

#127 ralph on 08.05.09 at 11:12 am

Many people believe what Shauna did by withdrawing all her money in cash is radical. Maybe it was,
depending on your point of view. However, the point is it is her money and should be able to do with it as she pleases.

Last time I checked there is no law that limits the amount you can withdraw in cash. The banks sudden concern for her safety is a joke.

To all you gold bugs try paying for your groceries in gold or silver coins. Put it to the test and let us know how it went.

#128 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 08.05.09 at 1:22 pm

I think any sensible person would pick the cold air return. — Garth

If a fire broke out it would not make a bit of difference. Fire gases travel through any opening, and duct work especially. If the furnace fan was running it would draw the fire gases right into it. Besides, inserting wads of money into the cold air return duct would simply increase the fuel use. Some saving that would be, eh?

In a fire the room with the fire is positively pressurized due to the expansion of the air and gases, thereby forcing the fire gases out through any opening. Not good choice at all, but it will get rid of the dust bunnies very fast, although leaving ash behind.

Two words, BIll: contents insurance. It’s blanket coverage. — Garth

#129 DaleFromCalgary on 08.05.09 at 2:47 pm

I have been slowly rolling over my GICs and bonds into gold and silver, and storing them in safe-deposit boxes. I’m not worried about Alberta Treasury Branch or the First Calgary credit union, where I keep the boxes, failing. Unfortunately neither of them sell bullion, so I take the cash out, go to a nearby coin dealer, buy the bullion, and drive back to put the stuff away.

I have about $3,000 to $4,000 income a week to buy bullion. I found out that if I withdraw $4,000 or more in cash, I have to sign a disclaimer form absolving the bank if I am robbed the moment I step out the door. This is a nuisance, so I limit my cash withdrawals to $3,900, which buys three gold Maple Leafs and a couple of 10-ounce silver bars.

My house is paid for, I have 90-days of non-perishable food, and I have no long-term faith in fiat currency. I also have conventional oil (mineral rights and partnerships in producing wells), which is the best investment I’ve ever made.

Read through the archives at goldseek.com and theoildrum.com for valuable advice as to what is coming down the road at us. Alberta will survive the impact a lot better than Toronto or Vancouver.

#130 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 08.05.09 at 4:39 pm

Two words, BIll: contents insurance. It’s blanket coverage. — Garth

I agree, EXCEPT watch out for limitations and waivers. The insurance companies are the true pros at doing CMA (Cover My Ass). In fact, many policies compute content coverage based on a percentage of the house value, and the first and foremost concern is the mortgage lender’s protection.

Undeclared high value items are generally NOT covered unless a specific rider is attached to the polcity and an certified appraisal is on file, and certainly not currency improperly stored.

In fact were such a claim made the arson investigators would be called in and the fire rated as ‘suspicious’. Then the claimant will be off to hire a lawyer and where is that money coming from? The ashes in the cold air return? Good luck!

#131 ralph on 08.05.09 at 7:07 pm

Good points, Bill.

Insurance company would probably contest the claim asking to prove the amount of loss (cash) at the time of fire.

Insurance companies have very deep pockets.

#132 Davinci on 08.05.09 at 7:46 pm

Garth said:
“If you’re going to awake anyone, try to do it with honesty and meaningful comparisons. Madoff appealed only to the greedy and ignorant (I hope you are not fishing in the same pool). He did not counsel people on investment assets, but rather took cheques made payable to him. Accredited Canadian investment advisers would never do this. Meanwhile the greatest mistake most folks make is to try to figure out their finances on their own. You may be the exception, but most fail badly.”

First, thanks for the serious response. (I like your witty quips as well, so don’t stop.)

A ponzi scam is an investment that requires more participants or the system collapses, bankrupting the business running the scam and the participants.

Money exists because someone owes the bank that created it when someone went into debt. Interest is never created thus the only way for the interest to get paid is someone else must go into debt. Thus, if people paid off their debts well before we ran out of money, individuals would go bankrupt and the banks (running the scam) would go bankrupt as well. Thus, it’s a classic ponzi. Since the banks are too big to fail, governments will go into debt, in effect printing the money to keep the ponzi scam going.

As for money management, I also used financial advisers and did everything that a “normal” person did.

What bugged me was why did I have to gamble my money on the stock market or why the government bonds did not kick off enough interest to cover real inflation.

These questions I did not answer, the questions just stayed in the back of my head until 2 years ago when I read about Ron Paul.

He opened my eyes and what I saw… I did not want to see or believe. But I knew it was true. I even tried to prove Ron Paul wrong about the monetary system.

I felt ignorant and stupid as I continued to deny the truth.

It took months before it clicked.

Up or down prices of real goods are relative to everything else and gold and silver is the only item banks hold other than currency.

So even if gold went to $500, I know that in order for it to do that, everything else would be a lot cheaper and real money just went on sale for my long term future.

My conviction is that absolute now. Paper money is useful for debt. Having paper money in your house is losing purchasing power and is dumb because you can’t see how much you are losing. If you use paper money for what it’s good for, then you would use an asset (gold) to borrow against and the interest payments will be the monthly reminder of purchasing power you are losing. Meanwhile, you have the asset increasing in value and the paper money to pay back the debt at anytime.

Many have asked me, “why don’t you just use your own paper money instead of doing that”. Well, only real things have value not paper that can be created out of debt. So why hold it as an asset, instead you should hold paper money as a liability to the bank instead of the bank holding the currency you own as liability to you. ;)

When I re-read my post, I wonder how anyone can dispute my logic. But it’s not logic I am disputing with you, it’s your lifetime of financial belief. If that’s your reason for denying my logic, believe me when I say, I understand.

#133 Jody on 08.06.09 at 12:48 am

I want to know why Garth has such a hate on for gold.

Gold has a role as a hedge againsg inflation. But it ain’t money. — Garth

#134 David Rockefeller on 08.06.09 at 4:36 pm

Thought of doing this myself, but I figure if I try to spend it they’ll peg me for money laundering and they’ll take it all.

#135 Duane on 08.11.09 at 5:20 pm

Just came across this article. Having worked in a bank branch, I can see the other side. Here are a few points:

– Banks need to maintain a maximum amount in cash for insurance reasons. Low amounts of cash = low amount of loss in robbery = low insurance payout = low insurance rates.
– In 3 years of working at the bank, I myself saw about 4 instances where an elderly lady was essentially being coerced by a relative (often 50+ yr old son) into ‘helping’ him out. They often feel they are entitled to her money and all hell breaks loose when the siblings find out – about how he/she essentially screwed over mom and took their inheritance. The bank doesn’t want to be accused by the siblings of anything or have their name smeared in the papers.
– Many elderly people start making poor decisions the older they get. A draft will do fine for their purpose 99/100 times, but they’ve got something in their head that they need that $100k in cash.
– And of course there is fraud, where criminals are often trying to disguise the paper trail of a draft or chq, so they need cash.

So, having to wait and take $100k out in portions helps the potential victim have a moment of clarity if the bank can’t see anything obvious, and minimizes the damage. The banks have a duty to their clients to look out for their best interest. And that is usually why they appear nosy in these situations.

Also note that banks receive cash all the time. Ultimately, the BoC can just print the cash and send it to the branches.