With glowing hearts

yarmouth1

Yarmouth's lovely this time of year.

When we all know Toronto is the epicentre of life (except when it’s Calgary and Vancouver) it may shock you to see us as others do.

I mean, let’s imagine you land in this country from another planet like, say, America. You have the freedom to live anywhere you want, so long as it makes practical sense for your family. You also have experience. You’ve lived through booms and busts, bubbles and crashes. You’ve experienced the greed that drives home values beyond reason and the despair that collapses them beyond belief.

In other words, you can survey the Canadian landscape and ask yourself with some authority: Where is there real estate value, as well as hope? What community offers the best lifestyle at a decent price where my investment will hold and the entry point is a fair one? Is it exotic Vancouver? Petro Calgary? Cosmo Toronto? Euro Montreal?

Or how about, none of the above?

Imagine if, on your planet, you had to chose between Penticton and Yarmouth? Listen to what Joe and Linda have to say to me:

Hello Garth,

We’re Americans who have recently obtained permanent resident status in Canada.  Our decision is mainly economic, although there are certainly other issues as well.  Of course, no place is perfect, but we see Canada’s long term economic and social prospects to be on a far superior footing to those of the United States.  A $50 B deficit, although very bad, sure looks better than our $2 Trillion deficit, and counting…and counting.  It’s a hard decision to leave but we have a 12 year old boy and I see his future to be far brighter north of the border.

Well, we’ve been offered well paying jobs in the Penticton BC area.  But the Okanogan Valley seems to represent everything that’s wrong with real estate, both in Canada and in the States.   To say it’s way overpriced is an understatement, along with suburban sprawl, water issues, air quality issues etc. I’m thinking that Canada’s real estate folks, especially in places like the Okanogan, realtors and sellers alike, are still way in denial – maybe 18 months to 2 years behind the US in the pace of decline.  That, along with the Green Shoots fantasy, could serve to deceive Canadian buyers precisely at a time when they need to think clearly and coldly about these things

Then on the other side of the country there’s Nova Scotia.  No water issues, much lower priced real estate (other than Halifax) but a tad on the economically depressed side.  Very interesting place though, and I like to fish.

For us, we’ve been renting for a few years in the States and it was a smart decision.  Your readers need to know that renting is not a bad thing, especially if you rent a nice place for a good price.  The purchase price of the house is the most important thing, not the monthly payment, which with artificially low interest rates, as we now have in both countries, can be misleading.  And having cash at the right time in a downturn is even nicer.  Anyway, perhaps you and your readers want to, shall we say, “comment” on real estate in the Okanogan, and whatever else might seem appropriate.  Let me finish by saying that we’ve traveled a fair amount in Canada and it’s a great country.  We feel very privileged to be able to live there, and intend to move within the next few months.  I’ve been reading your blog for quite awhile now.  It’s both informative as well as a public service to potential buyers and sellers in both countries.  Thanks.

Comments for our American friends?

156 comments ↓

#1 $fromA$ia on 06.23.09 at 8:52 pm

Garth,

I think you’ll really enjoy this video article. The Arguement is on Inflation or Deflation and of course how that will reflect on GOLD.

Ok boys enjoy this.

http://www.europac.net/ASchiff-FBN-6-18-09_lg.asp

#2 The Coming Depression on 06.23.09 at 9:00 pm

2 trillion dollar deficit in the US? Have you been under a rock? Try 63 TRILLION! Its pension,debt,medicare and medicaid. Who cares where you live its all going to collapse here, there and everywhere. Get rid of the US Dollar then we will have a chance. Hear what Ron Paul said today? Obama’s goal is a COMPLETE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE. Click the name and listen up…

#3 NorthVanDude on 06.23.09 at 9:09 pm

The Okanagan, in case you have not noticed, is a desert. Pentiction is also filled with rednecks and strip malls.

The weather in the Okanagan varies from 40ºC to -35ºC. The summers are hot and dry, the winters are cold and dry.

There is little if any culture in Penticton. It does have a burgeoning wine industry in nearby Naramata. I would move to Naramata and only go into the Ticker for groceries.

As for K-town, think Jeep YJs and steroid monkeys driving them around town all summer.

Why don’t you try Vancouver Island?

#4 Jan on 06.23.09 at 9:24 pm

It’s spelled Okanagan.

#5 Onemorething (aka DaHKkid) on 06.23.09 at 9:24 pm

Pretty sharp for a Yank! Just kidding brother of the right mindset!

The only time I go to the Oky is for my son’s ice hockey camp but even this year decided on Whistler HIPO program. You are absolutely right about RE in this Valley.

I really like the left coast (VAN) even though I’m a hard core Southern Ontario boy but it’s just as bad for RE. I think the east is a great place to retire ONLY!

I spent most of my time in TO but really WHY!

My top pic for Canada has always been Ottawa – The West End Suburban Scene to live. During the high tech bubble it was in fact a silly place to live but for RE affordability, safety, schools and anything outdoors, you just cant beat the Ottawa Region.

I lived there for almost 8 years before moving to Asia 6 years ago but back each year as it is the only place that feels like home.

Good luck with your move. Right now Ottawa is rebounding in RE for the time being actually up 5% from highs last year but give it 24 months to get your 15-20% off.

Rent for a 3000sqft in the west end big lot pool etc around $1800-$2200 CAD/m.

#6 We need more American womeeeen around on 06.23.09 at 9:25 pm

Wake up Kanata!

#7 hal smith on 06.23.09 at 9:26 pm

The Okanagan was nice 15 or 20 years ago but there are quite a few downsides now. Real estate is insane really for a town where it is VERY hard to find a good paying job. We have nice summers but the air quality is not great, lots of pollution from cars and tourists and forest fires. If there’s a forest fire within 150 miles of here we get the haze or the smoke. And traffic sucks in the summer due to lack of roads, lots of tourists and old people driving, and always lots of roadwork in the summer months since they don’t do it in the winter. Slow going to get anywhere. Golf and skiiing? It’s so damn expensive I don’t bother anymore. Single and looking? Fuggeddaboudit! Wine? hahahaha. Sunny weather? Maybe for about4 or 5 months of the year. But the other 6 or 7 months we are overcast, especially from late October to early April. Would I move here today? Nope.Lots of better places to live than the Okanagan. It’s all hype. Why do I stay? My kids are here and my townhouse is paid for and I travel a bit. I like to get the hell out of here in early November and not come back till June and I usually can’t wait to get on the road again. There is not much of a middle class here, you’re either a rich dude from somewhere else or a poor redneck working for peanuts. I know I’m gonna take it in the ear from other Kelowna residents on this blog but that;s the way I see it here. Bombs away…….

#8 Richard on 06.23.09 at 9:31 pm

Not only Nova Scotia, but New Brunswick and PEI. The whole East Coast is really reasonable. Go to mls.ca and look on the map for New Brunswick. Hundreds of homes well under $50,000. I am from Ontario and always find the prices amazing-or are they just reasonable? Anyway, I am in contract to buy a 3 bedroom home for $18,000. Fantastic value for the money. I presently own 8 properties in Ontario and have 3 of those for sale.

#9 OttawaMike on 06.23.09 at 9:36 pm

Here’s an email I just received:
“So what have we learned in two millennia?

“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should
be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
— Cicero , 55 BC
Evidently, not a damn thing…”

I’m not sure if I would bet the ranch on America’s downfall yet though. Anybody who has bet against them in past has lost. They do have a very resilient economy and even now they are proving that as the Eurozone economy tanks harder and faster.
I’m a proud Canadian but have to wonder why the letter writers chose to relocate, the U.S. has many beautiful temperate locations to choose from plus low taxation. Entrepreneurial spirit and hard work are generally well rewarded.

#10 TheFirstRick on 06.23.09 at 9:44 pm

Jeesus Garth, a couple more photos like that and the IT department at work is going to box me out. Me thinks they are all gay AND in cahoots with the political correctness department down the hall.

Thanks for the effort, regardless.

#11 maritimer on 06.23.09 at 9:57 pm

Ssssshhhhhhh!!
Now all the clowns are gonna move here and jack the RE up so this place resembles the places they’re escaping…

#12 smw on 06.23.09 at 10:14 pm

I’ve made my feelings on west coast versus east coast many a time. Especially for boomers needing a little tranquility and cash on hand.

My American cousins, save yourself a few hundred thousand loonies and buy on the south shore of Nova Scotia, oh yeah, you’ll need a winter jacket, but you can find those in large supply.

#13 Investx on 06.23.09 at 10:21 pm

Larry MacDonald’s Canadian Business column,
“Wanted: better house-price indexes”

Discusses the CREA’s misleading index formula.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/columnists/larry_macdonald/article.jsp?content=20090618_154426_8792

#14 Future Expatriate on 06.23.09 at 10:21 pm

#1 – Thanks for the video. Yeah, we’re going to listen to the long haired Gen X stockbroker brats who made us lose half of our life savings in the stock market in the first place.

Get a haircut Dude! News flash for you… hyper-stagflation hits like you predict, and gold is going to go through the roof every bit as much as it would with hyper-inflation.

Schiff rules.

#15 Repatriated Expat on 06.23.09 at 10:22 pm

I’ve followed opportunities and jobs over past 20 years which led me from Montreal to Vancouver, Toronto, the US and points in between.

I’m currently based in the Toronto area – and I’m renting. However, if I were retiring, it would be in the Cranbrook/Kimberley area in Eastern BC. I lived there for a couple of years, and it was by far the best quality of life I experienced. Grew my own veggies, lots of fresh air and nature in your face not your backyard.

But even those BC rural areas are hopelessly overvalued. Quebec is the best value for money these days, probably due to the unstable nationalists and an irrelevant language being stuffed down your throat, hence the lower property valuations. Lots of people want to leave Quebec but not too many want to migrate back.

I think you should stick with Pentiction at this point since real estate valuations anywhere in this country is out of whack. Hold on to your shorts and cash until valuations are more realistic.

By the way, welcome to Canada.

#16 Increasing that 1% on 06.23.09 at 10:23 pm

Good to hear positive stuff about this ‘great country’ from Americans.

From one SW Ont. perspective, Okanogan has reputation as being beautiful, and yes, expensive now.

But there are many other beautiful places and people – as you can see in picture- in Canada- Wouldn’t buy ’til you’ve seen/experienced even more

#17 Flounder Digest on 06.23.09 at 10:24 pm

Dear Yarmouth,
Your form of patriotism removes all worries about the economy!

#18 Lookinin on 06.23.09 at 10:28 pm

Hmm. Nova Scotia – one province with its hand perpetually out for cash from the Feds. Hmm, BC, and more particularly, Penticton. Another a province that has too few people paying too much tax for pretty scant services. The Okanagan (all A’s, FYI) is a strange place – I know, I live there. I don’t get the house prices, I don’t get why anyone would want to raise a family here and I don’t get the employment, or rather, lack thereof.
Pretty much everything we buy comes here via truck and comes “from away.” We don’t make much here – too freakin’ expensive.
Now, the blue-eyed sheiks from Alberta and the moneyed set from the lower mainland of BC have been the principle drivers of stratospheric real estate prices. Folks in the “Valley” are happy to go along for the ride, but something is strangely askew here. To wit:
$240k buys you 2275 sq ft in Middleton, NS (http://bannerrealestate.point2agent.com/Listing/ViewListingDetails.aspx?ListingID=1893759) while $329k gets you 950 sq ft in Penticton (http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=8397428)
Of course, we don’t get the nasty winter weather that the Maritimes receive, but if lots of snow doesn’t bother you, then maybe the East coast is the better choice.
Our biggest question, as homeowners in the Okanagan Valley, is “what about an exit strategy?” Can we expect to sell without taking a licking? Who will our buyers be? Health services in the OK Valley are terribly overburdened and the aging population just put greater and greater demands on that same strained health care system.
No, I think if you’re looking to rent and want to put some savings in the bank, then NS is the way to go. Others may beg to differ, but I do have a front porch view of things out here and it’s a mighty expensive view at that. My two cents, anyway. Welcome to Canada, by the way. Glad to have you aboard.

#19 Self employed on 06.23.09 at 10:34 pm

Our American friend does not say where in the U.S. he lives but if he’s planning on moving to Nova Scotia, it would be advisable to familiarize himself (and his family) with their winters. Yes, the RE in the OKANAGAN is overpriced but if he’s renting, why should he care. Penticton is a very nice little city with amenities that people fly from the other side of the planet to partake. I was born and raised in Saskatchewan and now live in Kelowna. I have traveled extensively and can say that for me, even with the problems we have here, I would not live anywhere else. We don’t like our realtors any more than he does and to be quite honest, I don’t think they are in denial. I believe they raise the perception of a used car salesman to new high. Realtors can’t be that stupid. They’re focused on their commission and buyers beware.

#20 squidly77 on 06.23.09 at 11:11 pm

nothings going down right now..no sireeee its all up
she needs a hug under a blanket…i have a blanket

meanwhile..

Here’s a tip.

Next time you see a national newspaper put a big yellow smiley face on the front of its business section, and boldly proclaim “the return of optimism” in the midst of the worst recession in decades, head for the hills.

That’s what investors did Monday, sending North American stock market indexes to their biggest one-day loss in months.

By the close, the Toronto Stock Exchange’s main index was down more than 450 points, the Dow Jones Industrial Average was off more than 200 points, and the S&P 500 Index had shed 28 points

Technical analysts warn there could be further declines ahead, now that the S&P 500 has fallen below its 200-day moving average.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/fp/Optimism+forecast+overly+optimistic/1723603/story.html

think its over
think again the real bust up lies in the months ahead

tick tock tick tock tick tock ti..

#21 Naramata on 06.23.09 at 11:17 pm

#3 North Van Dude….

I thought Eagle Harbour, West Van was heaven …but Naramata’s better ..Penticton is a fantastic place to raise kids..Apex is the best ski hill for families, close , low key, easy breezy ..Kelowna’s too big when you get used to Naramata General Store…but hey…great that the kids can go to UBC -O and only be an hour away. I love the Okanagan ….coming from Montreal via Toronto, Vancouver …never thought I could adjust ….took 3 minutes. Since Internet …I work with people all over world ..cute little airport…they are always very very impressed. I work in research and we have been rated as top Alzheimer’s Research site a number of times.

THE BEST OF RURAL CANADA !!! I highly recommend the Okanagan. (…..be prepared to create your own job though)

#22 Nostradamus jr. on 06.23.09 at 11:31 pm

woof

DELETED

#23 G on 06.23.09 at 11:39 pm

Speaking as a born-n-raised OkanAgan-ite in his mid-twenties, I’ll say this:

– It’s scenic, but unless you possess the means to spend your whole day at the beach or cruising in your boat, there’s a strong chance you’ll likely find other aspects of your life severely lacking.
– If you can even find a decent job, you’re underpaid. The employers call it the notorious “Sunshine Tax”, which is BS because it’s always cloudy here outside of the summer months. If you enjoy your vitamin D and $, go elsewhere. Canada may be sitting pretty long-term, but I would guess that’s due to natural resources, not the tourism industry on which the Okanagan is built.
– Unless your kid is a total loser, he will become a pothead/alky at some point in his teenage years. Those sure as hell were fun days for me, but more than a few of my old associates are still in the downward spiral. Sure that can happen anywhere, but here there is an distinct lack of anything for kids to do other than party. When you hear “Okanagan,” you think wine and golf… because this is an old person mecca from which the children flee as soon as they are of age.
– On the other hand, if in fact your boy is a loser, he will be bullied relentlessly. Again, because we were bored.
– In your case, good luck making new friends. The vast majority of young adults have lived virtually their entire lives here, and thus have formed long-lived cliques that are impossible to break into. These people are still living out their high school glory days, you will always be an outsider. All of my interesting and remotely ambititous friends moved away long ago.

I could go on and on, surely I sound quite bitter. The only reason I’ve lived here this long is my entire family happens to reside here, and we are close. But a move is not far off in the future for me, likely to Calgary where I have excellent employment prospects and a deep network of great friends, some old and many newly acquainted from recent visits. Besides, an Okanagan vacation is a mere 40 min flight away from Cowtown, best of both worlds.

As for the maritimes, I’ve only vacationed out there but would choose it over the OK anyday. Same crappy job prospects, but at least the residents are good people with strong character.

#24 nonplused on 06.23.09 at 11:56 pm

Love that picture. I always appreciate northern scenery

#2 The Coming Depression

I think you are referring to US debt & unfunded liabilities. The annual deficit (the rate at which the debt is growing larger) is forecast to be 2 trillion this year. Current outstanding federal debt is around $11 trillion (and about to grow by 2 more), whereas it’s only if you accrue for unfunded liabilities like a public company would have to that you get the 50 to 75 trillion dollar number. It’s still a real problem though, as at this point it does not seem like there is a way to avoid the unfunded liabilities from becoming real debt down the road, through continued large deficits.

In Canada we have a $50 billion dollar deficit, but that will add to an approximately $500 billion dollar debt that is still outstanding from the Trudue/Molroney years. We eliminated our deficit but debt repayment has been very slow.

The current per capita debt isn’t hugely different between the 2 countries, and Canada has lots of unfunded liabilities too. It just doesn’t grab headlines. Our medicare, cpp, and employment insurance is all likewise unfunded on a long term basis. The only real benefit we have is that military spending is a lot less per capita.

All of our provinces are now officially in deficit, just like most states. We aren’t having quite as much trouble at the municipal level yet, but I think it’s coming.

#25 Barb the proof reader on 06.24.09 at 12:16 am

#7 hal smith,

Hal,
I hope you don’t get bombarded (lol). You stated pretty much what I hear about the Okanagan, and I’ve known hundreds of Albertans who visit or moved — or own vacation homes there.

And still they are buying there, building their retirement homes, etc.

Actually, part of what you’re saying describes the hazards of living in many vacation areas.

There’s no ideal spot to live, every place has it’s downside. Heck, even Calgary with it’s 333 days of sunshine, vast bike pathways and hugely improving transportation system is getting too expen$ive. (Of course, paying for those roads is part of the huge property tax bill, but it’s getting to the point I can get anywhere I need to in 20 mins. or less, usually 5 min.)

#26 rory on 06.24.09 at 12:16 am

The Okanagan …ridiculously expensive …sun shine tax on wages (wages lower for same work) but you 2 too said you had good jobs …medical industry perhaps …anyway …long falls, mild & short (by Cdn standards) but overcast winters, you can ski, golf, hike, fish, boat, whatever …everything is here …summers hot …harvest bountiful …yes we have water issues, so does everywhere – most of the US, the Prairies …and the best part of the Okanagan …none to few mosquitoes or other annoying bugs, low humidity, have no stats on natural disasters but guessing it is far and few between …nothing is extreme …even a rainy day is short in duration …it is very soft part of the world …I am just saying and rambling …we like it here + family is all close by – a major factor in location …heck my old truck fits in around here just great …no need for the Beemers …all IMO.

P.S. – only 4 to 5 hours to Vancouver …great airport in Kelowna, and a Walmart everywhere – what else does one need …oh ya vineyards & orchards…a place that can be self sustaining if we try…lol.

Second P.S. – never seen -35 C in my short time here…coldest is about -20C with closer to 0 being the norm …and yes those lazy +30 days so seldom do other CND’s cities have without the suffocating humidity ….you get the idea I like it here…’nuff rambled.

#27 Sue on 06.24.09 at 12:20 am

I’ve been following this website for a while, though this will be my first post.

I grew up in Southern Alberta, spent summers with extended family in Southern Ontario, have most of my in-laws in Quebec, and have spent my adult life (so far) in B.C., living in the Okanagan (they spell it with an extra “o” south of the border – let’s not take it personally) for about a dozen years.

In spite of forest fires, “sunshine tax” and increasing traffic density, I wouldn’t live elsewhere. My work is a combination of employment and self-employment in arts and education fields, and so far in this recession, I’ve been lucky. My advice to anyone trying to make a living here (or anywhere else) is to not put all your eggs in one basket (funny, I read Garth saying the same thing, frequently), and to be creative about having a good quality of life while living within (or ideally, below) your means. It’s not rocket science! (Is it?)

There are smaller towns in the Okanagan that are still utterly charming (Armstrong is about as perfect as it gets), with a strong agricultural base. I consider it a privilege to know the people who grow my food. The climate is lovely more often than not. Real estate here is still overpriced, but is softening, and there are scores of rentals popping up.

And I’m sure Nova Scotia is lovely (the Maritimes are the one part of this great country that I’ve yet to visit) but I for one couldn’t take the winters.

#28 Crash on 06.24.09 at 12:36 am

I’m getting the urge to stand and sing “Oh Canada”!

#29 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.24.09 at 12:52 am

Hmmmm. In Kelowna tonight, low of plus four, chance of frost. Climate is changing, that’s for sure, so the lead-in pic — the ice, not the girl — is pretty much spot-on!

If it’s Penticton, go about fifteen minutes south to Kaleden and find a nice place tucked away there.

Whichever coast you choose doesn’t matter — closer to the ocean in the Maritimes, there are near drought conditions here.

Housing is cheaper there, grossly inflated here which is why renting until after the Olympics are over with is a much better idea.

Keep money parked somewhere else other than RE if staying here.
——
#107 Toronto C9 Renter on 06.23.09 at 8:39 pm — “. . . spreading pandemics, inciting revolutions, . . .”

For a better idea of conspiracy theories, see the first Men In Black film, specifically the scene when Tommy Lee Jones bypasses the m$m and picks up a few “National Enquirer”-type rags (that’s where real life happens).

Pandemics are a dime a dozen, but inciting revolutions? That’s what the CIA / Mossad / Interpol, etc. were created for, ‘coz that’s all they do — stir up hornets’ nests all over by getting under people’s skins!
——
A neat little 2:47 ditty from Matt (last name unknown) who is known as ‘10000Pennies’ on youtube. Matt’s thinking can be found on his blog at PoliticalMath.wordpress.com. — http://tinyurl.com/mq75se
——
Mish doesn’t view an economic recovery as coming from Asia — http://tinyurl.com/lnqfxh — so where will it come from?
——
A look at the past indicates where we are now (NWO). — http://tinyurl.com/m7sx49
——
China / Russia are both backing Iran’s election, so with the CIA / Mossad sticking their noses into other peoples’ business, it looks to be pleasant times ahead! — http://tinyurl.com/le2met
——
Further to the m$m junk re: the pig – bird – human flu concoction, this. — http://tinyurl.com/laex7z

“If ‘accidental’ contamination is virtually impossible, then intentional contamination likely.”

#30 Mark on 06.24.09 at 12:58 am

I hope he’s not talking about Greater Yarmouth in the uk..

as that place sucks.

#31 Barb the proof reader on 06.24.09 at 1:00 am

#9

re: “quote of — Cicero , 55 BC”

Unfortunately, the quote is not Cicero’s, it’s from a fictional 1965 writing by Taylor Caldwell. She often used real historical events or persons.

“In a letter to The Chicago Tribune, John H. Collins, Professor of History at Northern Illinois University, reported that the attribution to Cicero actually originated in 1965 in A Pillar of Iron (1965), Taylor Caldwell’s fictionalized account of the life of the senator. (In fact, Collins noted that it was on page 483 of the edition he had in hand.)
Collins held that the alleged quotation “is totally without documentation,” and that “the great bulk of Caldwell’s quotations are false.” He further observed that “a historical novelist has a perfect right to put invented conversations and anecdotes into a novel, but should not represent these inventions as authentic history.”
“Cicero is the great Roman rhetorical master. His life, sayings, and doings have beens so thoroughly researched, documented, and examined that it is highly unlikely that anything new about him or from him is going to come out without a publicized and recognized accompanying archeological find to go with it. He is just too important and well known a figure for things like this to slip past the radar – and suddenly show up in a 1965 novel.
The pursuit of truth is a duty and responsibility, not a pass time.”
http://tinyurl.com/mvhtpa

#32 Chris on 06.24.09 at 1:37 am

I would love to move to Nova Scotia or PEI, but the husband just isn’t buying it. He thinks that BC is the best place on earth. He also believes that if we move back east our children will be forced to leave to find work when they grow up. He is originally from Germany, then lived in Ontario, the Kootneys, Hazelton, Vancouver and finally Vancouver Island. I think BC is hideously overpriced and that our children will just as likely have to leave to find work, and I’ve lived here my entire life. Any advice?

#33 Ulsterman on 06.24.09 at 1:38 am

I can’t for the life of me fathom what high-paid jobs anyone could find in Penticton. You’d have to set up your own business to make any real money.

I was there over New Years and all i could see aside from the lake was the depressing main street and the U S of A -style mall.

#34 confused and a little crazed on 06.24.09 at 2:20 am

Garth,

with a pic like that. God bless Canada :)

#35 Mike (Authentic) on 06.24.09 at 2:35 am

Out of the two, Penticton because of the lakes, the sun, the hot weather, the fresh fruit and veggies, wine, skiing and beautiful mountains all around you. Lived in Kelowna for 2 years. Cons? Penticton is a retirement town, slow life style, hard to find good paying work (sunshine tax they call it) and tourist traffic in summer, also a very cloudy winter.

Nova Scotia is great, lived there for a bit, friendly people, landscape reminds me a lot of northern Ontario. Cons? Very cold in the winter, depressed economy, work…what work?

If we had a choice in the WHOLE country I’d move back to the Okanagan asap if we could find decent paying work there. Winter clouds be damned!

Mike

#36 ted on 06.24.09 at 6:00 am

#32 I can’t think of a high paying job out there either. Unless they are world renowned astrophysicists temporarily working at the radio telescope. Doubt it. #22 G I feel your pain. I got my first job out in kelowna when I was out of uni. I hated it you described it perfectly. Calgary is much better for jobs but there is absolutely no pulse out here. It feels more like a village of then than a city of a million. There really is no ideal place in Canada.

Either nice and expensive with no opportunities. Or economically vibrant with no life. I feel like I am in prison at times in calgary. My advice to the couple you got to be able to find somewhere in the states that is better.

#37 Bottoms_Up on 06.24.09 at 6:15 am

woof

DELETED
————————
LMFAO. I’m assuming N. jr.is barking at the picture?

To our American friend, if you’re considering elsewhere in Canada, here are a couple of pointers:

1) Quebec has a very high income tax (and also a ‘welcome tax’ of 1% of the cost of your house)

2) Consider somewhere along Lake Ontario, it keeps the winters warmer and the summers cooler….I lived in Hamilton for 7 years and one winter we didn’t even get snow!! And, it’s better than BC because you don’t get all the gloomy, cloudy, misty, rainy days. So you may want to consider Oakville, Burlingon, Hamilton/Ancaster, Niagra-on-the-lake. Heck even Kingston is quite beautiful.

3) Why hasn’t anyone mentioned Elliot lake?

ps. leave your guns in the US.

pps. if you can provide more information on this blog regarding your financial situation you could probably get really good, specific advice!

#38 David Bakody on 06.24.09 at 6:16 am

A few years ago my big brother and his wife made retirement visit to Nova Scotia ( they both have lived in Ontario all their lives worked and raised their kids with no travel other than to cottage country) ….. WOW! we did not know this province was so beautiful and the people were so friendly and “NO 401” I told my big brother when he went home to keep the memories and not to tell anybody.

Of course it all depends on employment but skillful people always manage to find work.

Good luck to our American friends my cousin has been trying for years to relocate from Arizona and he told me about 8 years ago that if Bush continued on the path he was on things would not end well for the middle class in the US ….. it appears his suspicions were bang on.

#39 wjp on 06.24.09 at 7:00 am

I can only add the maritimers are the friendliest people and best neighbours in Canada, if that is important to you, it is a no brainer, however, if opportunities trump family and interpersonal relationships, then I suggest Toronto or Calgary or Vancouver…(opinion of some)
IMO, opportunities for your child can be found anywhere! There are good Universities all over Canada and aside from that, how many kids opt to go to a University in their home town unless forced to by finances?

#40 Lucy on 06.24.09 at 7:06 am

Water would be the deciding factor for me….go East. The people are wonderful, it’s a very relaxed way of life. No such thing as bad weather only inappropriate clothing.

#41 dd on 06.24.09 at 7:52 am

The best picture you posted to date. Do I need to read the column?

There is a test later. — Garth

#42 hagbard on 06.24.09 at 7:54 am

Canadian govt is making all the same mistakes the American govt is, except perhaps invading Iraq. We’re running up deficits, bailing out American corporations, blowing money on stimulus plans, creating new and bigger bubbles. How are we different?

We’d all better learn how to say “do you want extra shine on those shoes sir” in Mandarin.

#43 dd on 06.24.09 at 8:00 am

.#31 Chris

“I think BC is hideously overpriced”

Mid Vancouver Island is starting to wake up. Home prices are starting to come down.

#44 Toronto C9 Renter on 06.24.09 at 8:12 am

Totally agree — Nova Scotia is a piece of heavon on earth, and largely undiscovered (save perhaps for the roughly 1 M canadians who live there)

In my opinion, even Halifax prices are fair and reasonable. Moreover, in some cases even South Shore Oceanfront is still affordable to the average citizen (or even a below-average Vancouver citizen)

But Yarmouth? Not too sure about that one

#45 molson cdn on 06.24.09 at 8:33 am

15 Reasons why TORONTO is the best place to live in Canada.
1. Jobs
2. lots of rentals/homes in numerous great neighbourhoods with various price ranges
3. international airport that connects to the world
4. multicultural restaurants; lets face it- canadians cant cook except for bacon and eggs or roast beef sandwich covered in gravy! gimme a break. Besides all that good fish from the east coast comes here.
5. the girls are better looking here and easy- they actually excercise and eat properly
6. cdn health care is a joke- we like to think were better than others but we are NOT. Try living in Sault ste Marie with cancer-good luck.
7. No black flies- the pollution killed them a long time ago
8. education- you want to upgrade/improve your skills, toronto will give you what you want
9. canada really is BORING and 1 big YAWN. how many times can you look at the same water, same rocks, same trees. Toronto gives you variety and promotes creativity–i’ve been to the east coast–BORING!! Give me the molson indy, toronto beaches festival, shopping, toronto film festival,fireworks, cn tower, pro sports-Caribana EXCITING
10. Excellent coffee shops
11. You can actually open up that porsche to 140km/hr before the police start to even think about pulling you over
12. Has the biggest collection of fags in north america-cant wait to see major miller leading the gay pride parade
13. You dont need a CAR!!! i jump on the subway and go anywhere fast.
14. travel to other areas is easy, convienent, and lots of variety
15.and last but certainly not least,the citizens in toronto all have teeth

#46 Expat in NC on 06.24.09 at 9:05 am

I am Canadian and have been living in the Cary, NC (suburb of Raleigh) for 11 years now. Our house is being sold and my family and I are INTENDING to move back to Canada (Toronto area) to be with family again. Here is the thing…I’m not sure I can go through with it!! We just returned from Canada last week (look at houses in the Durham region), and when I compare that part of Canada with where I live here, I wonder why would I ever want to drag my family from this lovely part of the country to Canada? House prices here are reasonable (and the subdivisions are unique, beautiful have pools and tennis courts), people are a 100 times more friendly, the town is kept pristine in every imaginable way, they don’t find the need to build on every square inch of greenery, etc, etc. I could go on and on. Canada is my “home”, all my family is there, but after not living there for so long it feels foreign to me now…and it certainly has changed over the years. I’m at the 11th hour (my house is pretty much sold, we are about to buy a house in Canada) and I still don’t know what to do. If I could move all my family here instead I would in a heartbeat :-)

#47 Comfortable in a coma on 06.24.09 at 9:13 am

Lucy, come on now. There is nothing wrong with this girls clothing. She’s living a relaxed life like you said.

#48 peter wiener on 06.24.09 at 9:20 am

re # 44 molson cdn

glad to see you are a highly developed intellect as in your point 12 referring to gays as “fags” How old are you, anyway.

maybe next time you’ll call Chinese “chinks”, Italians as “wops”, blacks as “ni **ers

Garth, don’t you review these postings for offensive content?

No sense trying to shame the shameless I suppose, especially a POS (does not mean Power Of Sale in this context) like #44 molson cdn.

#49 CalgaryRocks on 06.24.09 at 9:22 am

ps. leave your guns in the US.

You can get all kind of guns quite legally in Canada. Even AR15s and handguns. Our American friends will have to leave their automated weapons as well as 30 round magazines at the border.

#50 Kris on 06.24.09 at 9:33 am

I currently live in southern Ontario and find it to be one of the best places to live in Canada. I’m originally from Saskatchewan, but lived for a few years in Calgary and have traveled extensively in Canada and around the world. I’ve visited every Canadian province and traveled many of them extensively. When it comes to an overall balance of job possibiltities, access to lakes and rivers, access to airports, cost of living and quality of life, it is pretty hard to beat southern Ontario. We have the longest summers in Canada and some of the best and cheapest fresh food. Within a 90 minute drive from my home, I can be in Toronto, Niagara Falls, Lake Ontario/Huron/Erie, Kitchner/Waterloo or Buffalo. The real estate is still fairly priced in most of the smaller towns and some of the cities and rents are generally reasonable.

Though the east coast is very beautiful, and the people wonderful, the weather is atrocious. BC is a lovely place to visit but I would never want to live there as it is the land of rogue hippies, war criminals, dope peddlars and now plenty of gang violence in Vancouver. I must admit though, those gigantic slugs on Vancouver Island are a sight to behold.

#51 Lawrence in Kelowna on 06.24.09 at 9:37 am

We are originally from Saskatchewan been here full time now for 8 months…… You couldn’t pay me enough to go back.Cold long winters, mosquitos large enough to pick up a small dog,black flies that will eat you and the scenery……there is none.We were fortunate and purchased here in 94 prices then were high to us and cashed in rrsp’s to purchase everyone thought we were crazy.Again we went from retail to internet and can do it from anywhere change of the times.We do not live in a 7 bedroom house our home is modest and we have CASH… Too gloomy for you in the winter go to big white for the day lots of sun and a 45 min Dr.We love it here and anyone can live here learn to live with a little less most people just don’t know how.

#52 Devil's Advocate on 06.24.09 at 9:44 am

Looks can be deceiving…

In Kelowna the price of a median single family home is down 8% from this month in 2008. The price of a single family home has risen 10% since January this year. The number of homes sold thus far this month is up 22% from the same period last year.

Penticton is just 30 miles or so south and tends to follow similar trends.

As for the writers question; Kelowna is a pretty spectacular place but has lost much of what originally drew people here. Penticton is reminiscent of what Kelowna used to be. Both are tough towns. Big city folk come here with intent to show us locals how things are done from where they come and often leave with their tails between their legs. It is competitive and the effort it takes to just get by precludes enjoying all that The Valley has to offer which is its draw. It’s like that great lookin’ girl Garth posted the picture of… yes she looks great but somewhere there’s some guy tired of putting up with her Bullshit.

#53 Just a Carpenter on 06.24.09 at 9:50 am

First off be rest assured that you are not alone in your quest. In my business I deal with many, who like yourselves, think the Okanagan as a very desirable place to live. My advice would be that unless you are already familiar with a particular community here then find a comfortable rental (getting easier) and take a year or two to check out the different communities. No need to rush in here as I don’t see prices going up anytime soon.

Sorry to read about those who had bad experiences here. IMO reading between the lines, life would suck no matter where you live.

#54 Nostradamus jr. on 06.24.09 at 9:54 am

North & West Vancouver(North Shore)…one doesn’t need a cottage or chalet…everything Nature is but a 5-10 minute drive.

#55 My_View on 06.24.09 at 9:59 am

Good post,

This is a trend that will be getting stronger (American Immigrants). Canada is a great wonderful country.

#56 McSteve on 06.24.09 at 10:09 am

Nova Scotia, hands down.

Halifax isn’t the rusting seaport everyone makes it out to be. If you have a job, the world is your oyster. Nova Scotia oozes Canadian history. I’d move there myself if my wife would come!

#57 pjwlk on 06.24.09 at 10:25 am

To our new American friends. Welcome to Canada!

I think that housing prices amongst other things are a reflection of the desirability of the area in question. Better value can usually be found in areas that surround the high priced ones, with affordability being a trade off for an aspect that’s considered desirable by most, like say public transit, travel time or jobs for example.

I know lot of people from the Atlantic provinces, “down east” as they call it and almost all of them complain about no work. People I know out west complain about too much rain. Quebecers complain about the language police and stupid politics.

I think it best to visit the different areas that interest you, if you get the opportunity, and see for yourself. Everyone thinks they live in a great area, I know I do…lol. I honestly don’t think that most people are well traveled enough to have a good understanding of the Canada they don’t live in. You probably won’t regret taking some extra time to do little research before making you final decision. I wish I had that opportunity.

#58 Lookinin on 06.24.09 at 10:28 am

Wow, sometimes I’m amazed as to why anyone would solicit advice for such major things as choosing a place to raise a family from blogs and the like. It’s really entirely subjective. Things are definitely cooling off and it’s way overdue. This link to a recent news story on CHBC news gives an idea of where things are headed.
http://www.chbcnews.ca/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=17823
However, I live in the Okanagan Valley and I do love it. We moved from southern Ontario and while we don’t miss the traffic or the humidity there certainly is a dearth of culturally-related things to do here. Unfortunately, I think your 12-year-old will be extremely bored. I have a daughter (age 28) who lives in Kamloops and she’s constantly amazed at the myopic life of most young people. It would be safe to say that the same goes for Penticton. As far as high-paying jobs are concerned, ensure that your contract is rock-solid. The wages are woefully inadequate for such an expensive area in which to live. The Audis and Bimmers aren’t being driven by the folks who make a living here, for the most part.
Good luck in your search and welcome to Canada. Good to have you aboard.

#59 NorthVanDude on 06.24.09 at 10:29 am

#20 yes, Eagle Harbor is heaven, and if money were no object I would probably hole up somewhere in West Van. The only problem with West Van is the people who live there-

Here are some actual conversations I overheard in Delaney’s coffee shop in Dundarave:

“My daughther (12 years old) just lost another iPhone. this is the second iPhone she’s lost”

“oh that’s nothing- my daughter has ruined 3 pairs of Rock n Republic jeans ($300 a piece).”

#60 Munch on 06.24.09 at 10:54 am

15 Reasons why Toronto is a kak place to live!

(Trust me, I was there in October)

1 – 15. Very, very cold!

Munch

#61 just a poor guy on 06.24.09 at 11:00 am

she’s got nice boots…

#62 Munch on 06.24.09 at 11:03 am

PS: who’s the ugly chick?

#63 Nathan in Edmonton on 06.24.09 at 11:12 am

The Okanagan is beautiful, but yes there are way too many boomers and older with loads of money that have driven up property prices. Penticton now has condos everywhere; usually for the 55 plus. My grandfather bought a beautiful large home there in 1989 for just over 100K, and I spent many wonderful summers there; unfortunately, he sold that home well before it would have fetched the 800 to 900K at peak. My wife hopes to retire there – after the current crop of wine, golf and cheese lovers have passed.

Personally though, I don’t think retirement is in the cards for the under 40 and I would not relocate anywhere that takes me away from Family; we’ll need family more than ever in the years to come.

#64 Kelly McMae on 06.24.09 at 11:18 am

Check out mid-Vancouver island. Prices are coming down and there are some great areas. I’ve lived in Penticton and Montreal and loved both. Actually liked Penticton more in the off-season when tourists had packed up and gone home. – locals seemed much more relaxed and friendly in the off-season.

Montreal is still the best city in Canada, but I’m not bilingual, so good jobs are tough. By far the most diverse and culturally vibrant place in Canada.

I’ve lived in the Pig (Prince George), and though it took some adjustment it had a surprising amount to offer.

The only place that I’ve lived and wouldn’t want to live again is Hope, BC. Something very strange in the water there.

The part about two well-paying jobs in the Okanagan doesn’t seem to add up, but I’ll just have to trust you on that one.

#65 Sylvia on 06.24.09 at 11:40 am

Penticton touts itself as “the place to stay forever”. I know of only one such type of real estate and it has headstones on it…
No decent movie theatre but hey, there is an eighty million dollar hockey rink where, from time to time, one can also enjoy a monster truck rally. No worries, they’ll pay for it somehow…
There are serious environmental issues in the making. Water shortage is the most obvious one but there are others. While it is nice to visit the vineyards and orchards it is worthwhile to remember that stuff doesn’t just grow by itself. Tons of fertilizer, pesticides and insecticides are sprayed each year. Poisonous stuff that finds its way into the air and water…
Bacterial count in the lakes is often so high the beaches should be closed. And would be, if the city didn’t rely on them for survival. Swimmers rush is common. There is a sewage treatment plant but I don’t know… Drive by the famous channel that connects Okanagan and Skaha lakes at around two am where the treated water is released into the river, take a whiff and see if you really want to go for a swim. Worth while to remember that Kelowna, the third largest city in BC, also releases its effluent into the Okanagan Lake. Then uses same lake for its potable water supply…
And finally, since this is a real estate blog, one might do well to remember that large portions of Penticton are built on unstable soil. New issues arise each year. So buy your million dollar view property, then watch it threatened by a landslide, sink hole or better yet, a massive condo development, as hundreds of residents have found out in recent years.
Really, the place would be a great little town save the smoke, the mirrors and the unattainable ambition to compete with Kelowna, Victoria or any other BC city with real potential for sustainable growth.

#66 questioning on 06.24.09 at 11:49 am

wrong time to come to Canada…

#67 Soylent Green is People on 06.24.09 at 11:59 am

Oh thanks so much GT for posting that picture of a hard body girl in a bikini. She worked hard for that bod.

I think I will write in to tell you how much I appreciated it so everyone will know what a screaming heterosexual MAN I am.

Did I mention that I was a MAN who wishes he could have sex with WOMEN, not other men. Because I’m not gay, I just wish I could have sex with women all day and all night, not men, I do not want to have intercourse with men, no sirreeeee

ps I am not gay, just want to make that very clear.

pss Hey, IT guys, just so you know, I’m straight and I hope you know I’m not gay due to the hetero porn I surf through on my work computer, if you tell anyone, that’s okay with me

It was that or Lady Gaga. Live with it. — Garth

#68 lemontory on 06.24.09 at 12:13 pm

Upon returning to Canada, I landed my first gig in Halifax. Stayed 3 years. I don’t disagree that NS is beautiful but my experience there was quite mixed. I found living there to be v. expensive (i.e. rent and cost of food). I also found it to be quite insular and clique-y. There’s not much in the way of diversity (sorry, but annual “ethnic” festivals are not what I’m talking about here). It’s probably a great place if you are Caucausian. It’s less of a great place if you are not.

#69 Tom M. on 06.24.09 at 12:15 pm

Self employed on 06.23.09 at 10:34 pm wrote ”
Our American friend does not say where in the U.S. he lives but if he’s planning on moving to Nova Scotia, it would be advisable to familiarize himself (and his family) with their winters.”

Actually Nova Scotia has the warmest winters in Canada. (or should I say least cold.)

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/weather/winners/coldest-winter-e.html

#70 Guy from New West on 06.24.09 at 12:18 pm

The citizens of Surrey all have tooth.

#71 Goldie on 06.24.09 at 12:22 pm

Here is a link to a presentation on gold and currency debasement by Goldcorp bigwig Rob McEwen. The powerpoint stuff from part 2 is especially good. His historical info makes a great case for gold and gold stocks during both inflationary and deflationary periods of crisis. Well worth a look.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B56E258514BF9250

#72 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 06.24.09 at 12:28 pm

Nice Maple Leafs Garth! ;-)

#73 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 06.24.09 at 12:30 pm

#44 molson cdn

Eh? Try doing 140 and contribute to the provincial coffers.

#74 Increasing that 1% on 06.24.09 at 12:40 pm

# 39. Lucy

“No such thing as bad weather only inappropriate clothing”.
—————————
lol, love it – now that’s Canadian-speak

#75 Dan in Victoria on 06.24.09 at 12:43 pm

Gee,thats like being asked “What beer do you prefer”Kokanee or Moosehead?Here have a taste.ummmm…”I’m not sure” well here, drink it all.You can’t loose.I worked with a bunch of guys from the east coast years ago,hard workers and even harder players,some of the finest people I have ever met.Except they teased me about being from California,(BC)hey boyo is anything real out there?Even learned a few fishing songs when they got there accordian and violin out,what a great bunch.

#76 Ogopogo on 06.24.09 at 12:52 pm

Agree that real estate in the Okanagan is greatly overpriced and due for a correction once interest rates rise and the flow of Calgreedian petro $ to the valley dries up. With no real industry or economic base (how do you leave Kelowna with $1M… come with $2M), current sellers are trying to cling to whatever equity they have as their retirement fund.

#77 Crazy BC mortgage broker on 06.24.09 at 1:00 pm

In the summer of 1981, while living and working in Vancouver my husband and I decided to hike the Cape Scott trail on North Vancouver Island. On our way back we stopped to visit relatives in Courtenay and decided to buy 10 acres in Comox.
The following spring we left our office jobs and moved onto the property without the benefit of hydro and lived in a 8 x 12 plywood shack while building a log house utilizing logs from the property. It was four years before we got hydro. We cleared land, planted gardens, had chickens, pigs, cows and the occasional horse and raised two children. When driving by a local dairy farm, when the sun was shining and the snow was on the distant plateau I would tell my kids that being born in the Comox Valley was like winning a lottery.
The kids are on their own now. We got together on the May long weekend and traveled to Gold River. We caught 3 ling cod -300 prawns and 20 dungeness crab. My husband made his signature boulibaise with some of the catch which we enjoyed around the campfire. We don’t order fish at restaurants. It’s never fresh enough.
We have a new plan-grapes. 3500 marechal foch vines planted in 06..with the hopes of supplementing our retirement income. Several vineyards have been planted recently.
The valley has grown but the growth is tempered by citizens wishing to preserve the
rural character. Westjet services the local airport so we are just 6 hours away from relatives in Ontario. House prices are more reasonable than the inflated Victoria market but we have the same weather. We have a local hospital and plans to build a new one.
And if we wanted to we could ski on Mount Washington in the morning and golf at Crown Isle in the afternoon. We pick blueberries on Mount Washington in July and chantrelles in September. Since 1981 the economy has evolved from being resource based to one that services seniors, tourists, and home based businesses. The local CAF base is the largest employer. The logging has disappeared, the lumber mills and pulp mills are closed. Salmon fishing has declined. Manufacturing is non existent. Yet, the valley continues to grow.
And while we ponder the wisdom of real estate investment I would not have wanted my life to be any different.
As a mortgage broker , I have met people from all over the world who have chosen this piece of earth as their home. The decision to settle here is not made from greed or avarice but a lifestyle choice. People live in the Comox Valley because they want to, not because they have to.

#78 bobotheclown on 06.24.09 at 1:14 pm

My husband and I lived in Kelowna for 5 years. Thank goodness, we moved away from there. We are professionals in our 30’s, and while we enjoy the company of the older crowd – which makes up Kelowna -it was practically impossible for us to find other educated 30 year olds in the area. The irony of Kelowna is that you have rich retirees who live in Kelowna part time and give a damn about the community, and then you have the working poor. Apparently, there just isn’t enough working poor in K-Town, so they are bringing in Jamaicans to fill the void. Poor Jamaicans! There are a lot of “business” people there too, who think they are something special, but in reality they are just comical. I never swam in Okanagan Lake, as I had been warned by the locals about its bacteria levels. I never drank the water either, as it was proven to have high levels of prescription drugs (especially birth control!) in it. Warring motorcycle gangs practically own the city, and they are treated like royalty at places like “The Grand” (I have “inside” sources). I could go on and on about what I know (and I know a lot), but it wouldn’t be fair to those good people in K-Town who need tourist dollars. Real estate is tanking, don’t let anyone decieve you! We personally know “Million Dollar Agents” there who are working Jo-Jobs by day and night to keep up appearances…..

#79 dd on 06.24.09 at 1:19 pm

#53 Nostradamus jr.

“North & West Vancouver(North Shore)…one doesn’t need a cottage or chalet…everything Nature is but a 5-10 minute drive”

Wow … you can actually say something worth while.

#80 Barb the proof reader on 06.24.09 at 1:23 pm

Calgary may not be on your list, but it is worth considering, as long as you have enjoyable work. Calgary has been my home for over 30 years, first 25 in Ontario’s southernmost corridor, and frequent travel back there and the most southerly tip of Canada, as well as travel to P.Q. and across B.C.. everywhere but the north and east coasts.
S. Ontario is great except for the hot, humid, overcast summers and sometimes lack of sunshine. But it is otherwise a very good atmosphere, long growing period, and a fantastic mix of rural & urban. Same story for Victoria & Vancouver, simply not enough sunshine, but additionally there’s just too much rain. But, they are lush and enjoyable and watery in-between the droplets.
For overall comfort, convenience and absolute sunniness you can’t beat Calgary. Once you get used to putting lotion on after your shower, you’ll always be comfortable here.. no sticking to everything, no sweating, no muggy days, no claminess. Perfect. Calgary also has the most sunshine of any major city and it shows.. the mood in the city is always friendly and lively. You feel good here. In winter, there are sporadic “dips” past -22F but the weather changes here often (40 min from the mountains) and within a few days, the chinook phenomena can take the temperature up to a very sunny and rewarding +70F. Remember that, those are the extremes, so if you hear about the cold extreme, remember the counter-balance that it gets warm in the winter here, too. And with the variations year to year, week to week, we do have some moderate to mild winters. We golfed in our shorts on Christmas day a few years ago.
And access to everything is phenomenally easy. The city has worked hard on that and our major “Trails” zip you long distances in a short time, and of course we have a great int’l airport.
Every store you could possibly want is here, all entertainment, culture, and N.America’s longest bicycle pathways. And of course, easy access to all the aforementioned areas in B.C.
Downfall: property tax on inner city 1100sq bungalow $3400.

#81 dave99 on 06.24.09 at 1:54 pm

#30, Barb,

You wrote, “…the opinion of “whore” came from my two friends, thirty-five year old moms who then described her music video — Lady Gaga humps a blow up dolphin in a baby pool.”.

Are you being serious? You and your friends don’t watch a lot of music videos do you? lol

Let me ask you this…what about the one where Lady Gaga is in a wheelchair, and then kills her ex-lover who had caused her injury? And then turns herself in to the police. Does that mean she is a whore who is also a champion for abused women?

Or maybe its just a music video. Ya think??

Then again, I guess all artists are fundamentally whores. They sell their art, soul and body to whoever will pay.

While we’re at it…

What about Shakespeare’s Midsummer Night’s Dream, where he drugs Titania (with love juice sprinkled in her eye!!, if ya’ know what I mean, nudge, nudge, wink, wink) and then has her have sex with a man who has been turned into a donkey?

Pray tell, what do your 35 year old moms have to make of that? Surely they will not allow their children to study such filth in the school system!!

#82 Shiner on 06.24.09 at 2:07 pm

All she needs now is a baby seal and a club.

#83 Bowlsh!t on 06.24.09 at 2:17 pm

My flag is raised after looking at the picture.. “oh canada”… Ohhhhh Canada… ohhhhhhhhh

#84 Two-thirds on 06.24.09 at 2:18 pm

RE Prices Fall 6.7 YOY in April

“Repeat sale prices for Canadian homes fell for a fifth straight month in April, dropping 6.7 percent from the same month a year earlier, a report on Wednesday showed.

The Teranet-National Bank National Composite House Price Index, which measures the rate of change of prices for single-family homes in six metropolitan areas, also showed prices were down 8.9 percent nationally from the peak hit in August last year.

April prices were off 0.4 percent from the month before.”

http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/investing/news/breakingnews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=20531470

#85 David Bakody on 06.24.09 at 2:20 pm

Just returned from a visit over to Halifax ….. still is one beautiful city filled with some of the most friendly beautiful girls on earth. As far as buying a home, yup expensive but move outside of Halifax (20 min) and all is fine. A person can live the middle class dream here at half the price of any major city in Canada or the US and if one wants NYC it’s a quick flight or a easy two day drive. And we have daily direct flights to London England for bargain rates most of the time. An evening in Paris France is just as affordable for that special occasion try that from Vancouver or Calgary!

#86 squidly77 on 06.24.09 at 2:23 pm

Saskatchewan, which was the top province in 2008, drops to the number two spot in Canada. But investors are most critical of Alberta, ranking the province as the least attractive among Canada provinces ranked for oil and gas investment. Aside from Manitoba and Saskatchewan, Alberta now also trails Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, and Newfoundland and Labrador
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Manitoba+most+attractive+province+energy+investment+survey/1728322/story.html

deja vu

put your ear plugs in….somethings about to go bang

tick tock tick tock tick..to

#87 Lookinin on 06.24.09 at 2:47 pm

Re: Post #64 (Sylvia)

I love that cemetery comment. Good one.

However, sewage outfall doesn’t go into the channel. It’s pumped way out into Skaha Lake via pipeline after it’s been treated. You’re probably smelling the odours from the digester tanks along the highway. An easily made error.

Lastly, vineyards only use 1/4 of the water that orchards use – something very vital to managing our limited water supply wisely. There is price to pay no matter where you live. At least we don’t live downwind from a hog farm or a chemical manufacturing facility.

Cheers,
Ken

#88 Barb the proof reader on 06.24.09 at 2:50 pm

#45 Expat in NC, INTENDING to move back to .. T.O.

Expat, remember, you have a LOT of nearby areas to consider, there are so many great places within 180+ degrees of Toronto, 2 or 3 hours drive so you’re still close to family, beautiful places to live and reasonably-priced. Remember, you’re comparing it to Cary (Raleigh) of a much smaller population than GTA and consider that your Triangle area is fast-growing and has some wealth going for it, so it’s sorta apples to oranges.
Your comparable, desirable, similar location would be beyond GTA.
Try north of Toronto a bit, small towns, scenic, historic, trails, lakes, waterways, farms. Go southwest along the corridor, more water, long growing season, farm fresh food, tons and tons of small towns and atmosphere. There’s so much surrounding T.O., but everybody wants to crowd into Toronto. Or try going east along the waterways toward Kingston and beyond, scenic, historic. Lovely territory.
If you like what you have in N.C. then try to find it near Toronto… it’s there, somewhere, and you’ll still be close enough to family to enjoy lots of time with them. I visit/live in Ontario at least a month+ each year. Drive the country roads, try the train sometime, go to the lakes around Ottawa or anywhere for that matter… you have a zillion options and the search will open new possibilities. It sounds like what matters to you is family, so don’t lose sight of that. But pick from the surrounding areas where you’ll find the possibilities and “feel” that you want.

Good luck to all those moving. I hate moving.

#89 David on 06.24.09 at 3:03 pm

My own personal opinion is looking beyond ephemeral bubbles. They come and they go. It would be pretty tough to make a down payment on a bubblicious home by cashing in those Nortel shares these days.
Moving to Canada will not exempt Joe and Linda from paying for economic mismanagement, bubbles, debt and taxes or the risk of job loss.
Canada really does rock in spite of all the bubbles and horse feathers fed to us by vested interests who contribute so little to the well being of the commonwealth of this great nation.
The damage from the real estate bubble has already been done here and elsewhere or Penticton for that matter. A mattress full of cash can outlive any correction.

#90 Glenn on 06.24.09 at 3:07 pm

Well, as an American with some experience with Western Canada over the last few years, I offer some food for thought.

The day you arrive, those seemingly sweet and good natured Canadians will show their fangs and their true nature. Endless gossip and innuendo will swirl around you and every aspect of your lives. Your wife is a former prostitute, you are on the lamb from the police in America, etc etc.

Your son will most likely become a target of derision and abuse. Canadians have a profound amount of latent hostility (hate?) for Americans, and kids are the least able to hide how they feel. To the average American, South Park is comedy. The average Canadian thinks Eric Cartman is a viable political entity.

It hardly will matter if you despised Bush and overt imperialist foreign policy. It will likewise not matter that you are are in effect honoring Canada and Canadians by seeking to take part in their (supposed) peaceful lifestyle. In my opinion, Canada is not as bad as America only because we Americans usually get there first (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc) and Canada is a small nation.

Finally, Canadians pride themselves mightily on putting up a facade of civility friendship and humanity, while simultaneously pulling off every backstabbing trick in the book against you and your family. This is even more pronounced in the Western areas.

In short, Canadians simply dont have the sense to separate their own feelings from the reality of the individual. They speak lip service only, and when cornered they become every bit as vile and treacherous as any American could be. The icing on the cake is, of course, Canadians will tell you with a straight face that they are NOT like any dirty filthy American. And, in true sociopathic fashion, they actually believe it.

In short, you will most likely come to regret moving to Canada. The only redeeming quality Canada offers at this point is a less entrenched police state apparatus. Fewer police and a much lower incarceration rate.

But if current trends are any indicator, that situation will be rectified soon enough. Then Canada will well and truly become America Jr.

P.S. If I were to move to Canada, I would choose Montreal. My limited time there helped me see that French blood tends to have an innate ability to sniff out bullshit and hypocrisy (something America and Canada share in equal abundance). If they hate you, they will do so openly, and for that I respect them.

#91 VOODOO on 06.24.09 at 3:32 pm

#44 molson cdn

Eh? Try doing 140 and contribute to the provincial coffers.
————————————————–
Molson’s got a point. I was doing 130 km/hr on the 401 near Belleville and went right through a speed trap (3 cop cars and 6 officers standing around with their radar gun). They didn’t even blink twice when I went by….I think they are now holding out for cars doing 150+ as to have the ‘big’ score…. (why bust a car for $250 when you can bust one for $2000 and impound the car overnight)?

#92 905er & Spouse on 06.24.09 at 4:03 pm

Okay, time for the ladies, how about a chippendale with chiseled pecs? Fair is fair!

#93 Hathor on 06.24.09 at 4:08 pm

I have lived in the USA, Vancouver Island, Toronto and now make my home Halifax. I live in the burbs and my commute to work in the downtown core is a 20 minute drive at best. Housing is a little more reasonable outside the downtown core. If you are looking for quality of life, the Maritimes are where its at. Not that I did not enjoy those other places; just unreasonable real estate prices and way too many people! I hope you find what you are searching for.

#94 Signal Loss on 06.24.09 at 4:30 pm

Take the job, then get a lateral transfer to Toronto. Live in Oakville, just west of the shitty where things are leafy and the traffic is mildly less annoying. Enjoy a quick commute into the core on the train (when it isn’t late or slow-rolling). Enjoy easy access to an international hub (Pearson airport) 20 minutes away by highway and two lower-cost, lower hassle regional airports (Hamilton and Toronto Island) with direct flights to US and Canadian cities. Enjoy (ok, suffer through) the travails of our professional sports clubs in soccer, hockey and baseball. Attend operas in Toronto’s world-class opera house and eat at restaurants where chefs can cook on par with those in commercial centres elsewhere in North America, UK and Europe. Avail yourself of the best telecom infrastructure in the country. In short, live in Toronto or environs where you will be as connected to the outside world as you can possibly be in a provincial small-time country like Canada. Your other alternative is Montreal.

Cheers.

btw, nice pic. a little NSFW warning next time pls :)

#95 Marc on 06.24.09 at 5:17 pm

#90 VOODOO on 06.24.09 at 3:32 pm

I was driving 180 km/h in my Dads diesel Volvo in France earlier this month. The tomtom gps has all the radar cameras mapped out, and it beeps and informs you of your speed so there is enough time to slowdown, then speed back up after the camera is passed. FWIW limit was 130 km/h. Our speed limits are far to low. 90 km/h on Hwy 1 in Vancouver? France had 90 km/h on narrow windy country roads. Our “freeway” could at least be 110 km/h.

#96 bigpicture on 06.24.09 at 5:17 pm

Warren Buffett echoes Garth’s message on Economy, Inflation and Markets

http://www.cnbc.com/id/31526130

Economy – Still really Bad
High Inflation – Strong possibility Up Long Term
Stock Market – Good if hold for 10 year time horizon

#97 Toronto C9 Renter on 06.24.09 at 5:27 pm

to #89 Glenn who said… “Finally, Canadians…. pulling off every backstabbing trick in the book against you and your family. This is even more pronounced in the Western areas.”

Glenn, when you put it like that, it sounds like it comes from a Michelin travel guide or something… “visitors will note the backstabbing is most prounounced in the western region…”

In any case sounds like for some reason things didnt go that well when you were here??

#98 peter wiener on 06.24.09 at 5:40 pm

Hey # 89 Glenn

If that was not a sarcastic rant about Canada then I suggest you never come back.

It’s pretty obvious that some experience that you have had here has scarred you for life. You better stay home and lock all your doors or a big bad Canadian wil stab you in the back.

Perhaps the problem was with you, not the Canadians you encountered, but a parochial [email protected] like yourself who has never ventured far beyond your own borders (figuratively and literally) would be not that broadminded as to consider yourself part of the problem. Grow up asswipe!

and, oh yeah we won’t miss you if you decide not to visit again, we’ll understand!

putz!

#99 peter wiener on 06.24.09 at 5:44 pm

# 90 VOODOO

what were you driving?
try that with anything expensive and either Italian or German and see how quick they are to write you a ticket

#100 hagbard on 06.24.09 at 5:55 pm

#89 Glenn

Might help if you don’t tell people you’re American. Unfortunately, the US govt has done a lot to piss Canadians off, Canadians aren’t in a position to return the favour (except, I suppose, on an individual basis). For a more recent example, google “Marc Emery”.

#101 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.24.09 at 6:08 pm

Kwik Questionnaire: Of the following three, which one are bloggers attracted to, and find the most fascinating? Is it:

(a) Cleopatra, Temptress and Seductress of humanity throughout the ages; (b) Madamoiselle hairy the Happy Hooker, a.k.a. Snugglebums of the Salacious Suffragettes; or (c) Gold.

Y’all can choose whatever takes your fancy, but something is happening with gold (I am not a gold bug, preferring silver).

Combined with the two links in my #28 post, first the one about 1969 and what was planned for and is taking place now, and especially the 2:47 clip of how Obama is driving the deficit / debt up (guided by others — the Bilderberg Group, Rothschilds, Rockefellers and a few others), precious metals about to blow through the roof, something is taking place.

This — http://tinyurl.com/ntaljw — has something to do with all these events, but further . . .

http://tinyurl.com/l3yybyhttp://tinyurl.com/kwf4alhttp://tinyurl.com/mjvqh7http://tinyurl.com/nqvs4m
——
The upside down ‘h’ is another version of the ‘w’ and ‘v’ recovery / collapse. — http://tinyurl.com/kr8ft3

To inflate or to deflate — dascht iz deee kwesschun! — http://tinyurl.com/mf3yfe

#102 ralph on 06.24.09 at 6:19 pm

In response to #89 Glenn’s comments is: welcome to the human race.

#103 ncoffee on 06.24.09 at 6:26 pm

Wow, lots of comments focused on the bikini pic today …

Sure, we’ve seen them on the beach, or on tv, or in movies, or in magazines, or on giant billboards, or in pretty much any type of advertising since the fifties — but on the internet? Man. Never thought I’d see something like that on the internet.

#104 NorthVanDude on 06.24.09 at 6:31 pm

#89 Glenn,

I am sorry you had such a bad experience, however, I think you can find those types of people anywhere. To make such grand generalisations is irresponsible and lazy thinking. Why don’t you try substituting a specific race for the word “Canadians” and then re-read what you wrote.

Does it sound a bit harsh now?

Canada is a large enough country that 2 people moving from the US can find their own niche, and within that, some people who share their interests and pastimes. They will see Canada largely in the way they see themselves, just as the way you see Canada is likely the way you see yourself.

Having been born and raised in Montreal, I can tell you that francophone Montrealers do not have an innate ability to detect insincerity, nor are they predisposed to dish out blunt opinions. To suggest that something in their blood gives them such an ability is, well, racist.
It might be that they were just rude to you, Glenn.

Have I separated my own feelings from the reality of the individual enough for you?

#105 ca on 06.24.09 at 6:34 pm

Garth —

I wanted to make sure you saw this article

http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html

Does it change your mind on any of your forecasts?

#106 Comfortable in a coma on 06.24.09 at 6:36 pm

Today in the Vancouver Sun::
“The biggest thing helping the entry-level buyers is interest rates,” says Archibald. “It’s a rare combination to have those two worlds collide (low prices and low interest rates). People are coming out of rental accommodation with a minimal down payment of 10 per cent and finding they can buy for not much more than the cost of renting. That’s what is driving the market.”

Anyone not buying now Archibald considers a gambler.””

How can 10% off the highest recorded price be considered “low prices”?
People in BC truly are NUTS!

#107 Dan in Victoria on 06.24.09 at 7:08 pm

#89 Glenn…Why so much hate?

#108 TS on 06.24.09 at 7:10 pm

House prices continue to fall in Canada according to April 2009 data…. the pace is “accelerating”….

http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/investing/news/breakingnews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=20531470

#109 Samantha on 06.24.09 at 7:15 pm

For me, moving to BC from Manitoba was a dream I had chased since the ‘70’s when I first visited the province. In 1995, I finally made the move, going first to North Vancouver.

North Vancouver was expensive compared to Winnipeg. My income dropped by the equivalent of $3.00/hr and my cost of living was substantially more (rent, utilities, car insurance, medical).

However, North Vancouver and West Vancouver are beautiful and I enjoyed the feeling of living in a “mini” city. I didn’t feel like I was living in a huge metropolis.

In March 1996, I moved to Kelowna. I can tell you that Kelowna does get very cold because the night I arrived it was -36. You can check historical weather data and verify the cold cycles/heavy snow cycles that Kelowna does experience.

After surviving that winter, I settled in and began to enjoy the “small town” feel of Kelowna. People were friendly. The crime rate was low. The cost of living was reasonable. In 1996 you could buy a war time era home in the North End of Kelowna for around 90-110K.

Unfortunately, after the fires of 2003, the real estate boom exploded, and suddenly, everywhere it seemed, prices skyrocketed. I say unfortunately, because Kelowna was (and still is) not an area of high income for many in the labor force.

Serious social issues began to present themselves as well – crime, addiction. I watched the deterioration and the impact it had upon people living there. That “small town” friendliness was replaced by a more guarded attitude.

The beaches I once enjoyed had discarded needles littering them. Pimps bullied their prostitutes near the bank where I worked. I began to feel like I was right back in the undesirable aspects of “big city” living that I had left behind in Winnipeg.

I still think that BC is a beautiful province, however, I was not able to find a town in BC that fit my particular requirements. I now live, quite happily, elsewhere.

I believe that Kelowna/Okanagan real estate will experience a major correction. It simply has to because the wages do not support the current prices for renting or purchasing. There have been many companies that have relocated or simply gone out of business which further supports this type of correction. Too much emphasis was placed upon tourism and not enough on the support (local/provincial politics) and development/diversification of industry. I think the correction will be similar to what has occurred in California.

Some final thoughts on Kelowna/Okanagan:

– It can and periodically does get very cold during the winter.
– The summers are hot and an air conditioner is a must.
– Crime (particularly addiction related crime) is a big problem throughout the Okanagan, as it is in many other urban areas.
– There are mosquitos in Kelowna – just get out into the bush.
– There are also rattlesnakes (Kelowna people on this blog must remember the warnings that were issued for Knox Mountain park?)
– There are also black widow spiders – example, people who service hot tubs in the region open the decking and toss in an insect bomb, close the door and wait before undertaking repairs.

There is still beauty there, as there is in so many places across this incredible and diverse Country. The Okanagan is but one small part of it.

Welcome to Canada! May your life here be happy and everything you hoped it would be.

#110 john m on 06.24.09 at 7:35 pm

Wonder to buy?… a simple solution–if your going to borrow the most money you ever have in your life-at the mercy of the financial institutions—for an investment–you best have your shit together and take a look at reality :-)

#111 Stasi leather trenchcoat on 06.24.09 at 7:46 pm

FDR vacationed in New Brunswick – that’s where he caught Polio. Halifax harbour was the site of the World’s biggest pre-nuke. On VE day Dartmouth was the only place in the World where they looted and burned the stores cause liquor was banned for celebrations.

#112 barb the proof reader on 06.24.09 at 8:26 pm

#89 Glenn

That’s pretty good comedy you put on there. You say you are in the states but you’ve visited the west and Montreal and you are an American who obviously hates Canadians, and you’re lettin’ it all out. That’s not your first post like that, I know, because you donned some sort of accusation once of me probably being ‘one of those who hate Americans’. Well, your statements just don’t add up.
I’m half American, my mother was American, most of my family is American, same as for hubby’s, and at least a dozen friends, who happily live in Canada. They all love Canada and Canadians and are dearly loved by us all. Heck, my next door neighbours are American.
The ONLY Canadian I’ve ever heard say they hate Americans was an old client of mine, years ago he said it, and he was originally from India and has some sort of political hate on for the U.S. Oh, yes, there was also the tv repair guy. But he was from Serbia.

Now if you want to talk U.S. foreign policy or certain U.S. politicians and ideologues, and the corporate elephants we’re forced to sleep with, well, that’s different.

Besides Glenn, look around you at Americans, in the U.S., who make fun of Canadians for no reason and always out of ignorance about our country, but we don’t hold it against them (we have tv’s you know). In fact I kinda feel sorry for people who show their ignorance, but I’ll welcome them all the same. They learn what a great country Canada is soon enough, and the ex-pats I know are very proud to be Canadians, and they all plan on staying in Canada.

#113 kitchener1 on 06.24.09 at 8:59 pm

RE#89 Glen’s comments,
He does speak an aura of truth, more so if you are thinking about small town Canada. I know from visiting friends that live in small town Ontario that they seem to have the whole scoop on everything that happened in town. They know everything, who broke up with who/job/politics/car accidents-injuries, they almost know the life story of their neighbours. I could hardly beleive my ears.

Compare that to Toronto were I used to live in a condo, I think I knew maybe 5 people on a first name basis in the whole building.

Montreal had a more European mindset, their ,people will choose not to befriend or associate with you and make no qualms about it.

Glen is right about the high and mighty attitude many Canadian have, I have travelled all over the US and found 90% of people their very hospitalible and friendly. Almost too friendly, people offering to let me stay at their place while they go to work–they don’t even know me……

Even in a smaller city like Kitchener, I must have given 6 or 7 people boosts this winter, just drove a guy to a gas station a few weeks ago because he ran out of gas, most of these people I helped had all been waiting 5-20 min(20 min was for the guy out of gas) I asked them how long they waited. A lot of people drive by in 5-20 minutes.

Back in Toronto I never had to wait more then 2-3 minutes to get a boost from a friendly passerby. Canadians still cling to this small town is better theory nonsense, there are good people were ever you are. Honestly, I would rather be stuck at Jane and Finch needing a boost then in Kitchener, I could get one sooner.

#114 Jon B on 06.24.09 at 9:29 pm

The friendliest people in Canada are located in the Atlantic provinces. The most unfriendly people are located right here in BC. I’d recommend to our American immigrant friends to locate right in the middle; Cambridge Ontario. You just can’t go wrong.

#115 Real Estate Deal or No Deal on 06.24.09 at 9:36 pm

Garth,

You always have the best pictures … thank you.

#116 Real Estate Deal or No Deal on 06.24.09 at 9:40 pm

Glenn #89

Why get out of bed in the morning with an attitude like that?

You should move someplace where people are a rarity … like the North Pole.

I must admit though, I have never met a Newfie that I didn’t like … many Quebecers … tonnes of Ontarioans … and lots of in betweens.

#117 hmm.. on 06.24.09 at 9:41 pm

#89 Glenn

Well put, there is some truth to your observation

#118 Sam Mcboldon on 06.24.09 at 9:45 pm

Kitchener #112
“Honestly, I would rather be stuck at Jane and Finch needing a boost then in Kitchener, I could get one sooner.”

But you might not live to tell about it.

#119 hmm.. on 06.24.09 at 9:47 pm

#112 kitchener1

You should be careful what you wish for. A boost at Jane-Finch has whole different meaning than in Kitchener.

#120 Jim on 06.24.09 at 10:04 pm

Nova Scotia is charming and has a reasonable cost of living, though it is difficult to find a decent job. I think Vancouver is one of the most beautiful places on the continent. However, it rains a lot, the traffic is horrible and it is incredibly overpriced. I make $100 K and I can’t even afford to buy a townhome on the west side. Montreal is the closest thing to Europe and it is very affordable. Only one spouse would have to work full time and you could still afford a house there- if you can find a decent job. As for Calgary, other than nearby Kananaskis and Banff, I can’t think of one reason why anyone would want to live there except for the job opportunities. Until recently, Toronto probably had the most opportunities for white collar work, but housing is expensive, though still cheaper than Vancouver.

Rent for a year and you will see a 20% haircut for real estate.

cheers

#121 Boombust on 06.24.09 at 10:11 pm

“The ONLY Canadian I’ve ever heard say they hate Americans was an old client of mine…”

Amerikans are so tiresome. Being the world’s policemen and all makes for so little time for the more important things in life.

#122 Rural Rick on 06.24.09 at 10:15 pm

My favorite American city was San Francisco. Had a lot of things going for it. Weather, theater, beaches, excellent mass transit, nice folks, laid back artsy style.
I was very surprised to meet two young men fleeing back to BC hating the city after a short visit.
Then they told me their story of bad directions, getting mugged, a meeting a lot of unsympathetic guys in blue uniforms.
Could happen anywhere.

It really is the people that make it for us. When moved to a small town in Southwest Ontario from Toronto 25 years ago. The hardest part was finding people that shared my interests. It was a lonely time.
Now I have a great group of wonderful people true friends.

There are lots of nice places in Canada. It’s what you make of them. Every area has it’s quirks and rituals. Rural Ontario would be my first choice. Great folks from the lakes to the Far North.
You get about what you put in to it out of it. Invest.

#123 Not Biting on 06.24.09 at 10:31 pm

Yes, Cambridge, Ont. is great, but don’t believe anything “Jon. B” aka faker, says about BC

#124 Future Expatriate on 06.24.09 at 11:10 pm

#89- Glenn, during my life through this world I’ve found that people pretty much treat you the way you treat them. If you come at them aggressively and negatively, with a chip on your shoulder, then it’s been my experience it will be returned in spades. Sure a tiny minority of any people are naturally like that, but if you chalk it up to a poor upbringing and not indict an entire culture I assure you you’ll be closer to the mark. I suggest that your difficulties in emigration lead you to a bit of a negative attitude from the very beginning; it is not easy for an American to become a Canadian and it shouldn’t be.

Also, perhaps the reason you left the US is you weren’t getting along with your neighbors there either. Moving to another country, any other country, won’t fix what’s wrong with you.

Your rant has not dissuaded me in the least. The US has made it very difficult to renounce citizenship; did you go through that last step? If you hate Canada and Canadians so much you might want to take advantage of that US citizenship.

But wherever you decide to live, please realize that people have the strangest way of living up, or down, to your expectations of them. And it’s all really in how YOU relate to them in the first place.

#125 smw on 06.24.09 at 11:39 pm

OCED raises its outlook to only 4.1% poopy this year.

But some good news, exports are up.

Vancouver is working on being the illegal drug capital of the world.

“Go after the piranhas, not the minnows.”

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=1729271

Gang Violence = Terrorism

Prosecute gang members accordingly.

#126 barb the proof reader on 06.24.09 at 11:56 pm

#80 dave99
Boy, Dave, you sure get worked up over sex videos.. you must have gone to watch one of your Gaga videos and your brain stop working? (lol) I guess you don’t like people calling a spade a spade. Gaga is what it is, a female who looks like a male, who is only able to get noticed using sex.. yawn. I guess you don’t get the yawn part. I merely point out a non-talent, and you have a hissy fit?
Are you having fun distorting what I said? Take another little blue pill and watch your video again, and dream of imaginary book burnings.

#127 kitchener1 on 06.25.09 at 12:23 am

#117 and #118

See, thats the big misconception about Jane and Finch outside of Toronto, my of my best buddies used to live there. Never, ever had a problem, we could walk across to the strip mall at 2:00am and get pizza, walk to the corner store etc…

Chance of me getting into trouble at Jane and Finch are almost zero, now, what if I were to walk into some small town Ontario bar and it became known I was from Toronto, don;t think it would end as well.

I could leave my car unlocked and no one would touch it, the locals that live in the houses their don;t even lock their garages, many leave them wide open 24/7, don;t take my word for it, go for a drive in that neighbourhood and see for yourselves.

#128 Glenn on 06.25.09 at 8:21 am

#99 hagbard #89 Glenn. Unfortunately, the US govt has done a lot to piss Canadians off, Canadians aren’t in a position to return the favour (except, I suppose, on an individual basis).

Congrats to you sir, you broke the code.

#129 dave99 on 06.25.09 at 8:27 am

#125 Barb,

Actually, no, that’s not what you said. But I don’t blame you for wanting to rewrite it now after the fact.

And why am I not surprised that you would consider male impotence a suitable source of derision? Your hangups and frustration come screaming up off of the page. Sad, but all too common. :-(

#130 Glenn on 06.25.09 at 10:22 am

Not to agree with barb, as her angst most likely stems from the “Im beautiful on the inside” delusion, but the chick pic in question looks a bit iffy. This particular female has the fireplug look common in the hormone treated big mac junkie nations (US UK Canada, etc).

The problem is that western females have successfully lowered the bar (with the help of submissive males) to such abysmal levels, that just about anything passes for “hot” these days. A simple youtube check for “Hot Girls in Kiev” can help any guy hit the reset button, as it were.

The only problem is, once you taste the finest caviar, the “big mac” females that infest the western world are exposed for what they truly are.

Utterly repulsive slop.

P.S. I would send Garth a picture of my ultra hot Ukrainian wife, but I would be shot soon thereafter. Sorry guys!

#131 Rob in Onterrible on 06.25.09 at 11:51 am

Hi Garth, I sent this yesterday but it never got posted. 2nd try. First off, I want to say to our new American residents: Welcome to Canada.

A good site to discuss where to live and retire is here: http://discuss.50plus.com/ipb/index.php?showforum=22

I’m not 50 but the site is full of disillusioned seniors from the interior of BC. Nova Scotia is nice but there are no jobs so if you have good jobs, that’s where I’d go.

BTW I’m not 50 or even close to retiring but still read the 50 plus blogs.

#132 barb the proof reader on 06.25.09 at 12:31 pm

#80 dave99 on 06.24.09 at 1:54 pm

Wow, Dave, your come-backs with distortions are getting less and less funny, then you turn a critique of a low grade celebrity into a book burning crowd! (lol)

I guess you are just determined to not allow other people to give their opinion, so you have to bludgeon them somehow. Get a grip, it was a comment about talent, er, lack there-of.

Garth makes fun of Lady Gaga, I go along with it by checking her out. I always look for great new music. But it turns out, after looking at video, reading reviews and mentioning it to some friends, it turned out unanimous, she’s just another borderline talent, another wannabe and not only that, another who pushes the envelope so she can make a buck.

My point, and in your tirade you seemed to miss it, is that she has no special singing talent, no special music talent. She simply drew attention to herself to make money. It’s called a Side Show. In the pursuit of money, people will do a lot of things, but great talented musicians get shoved to the back.

#133 Samantha on 06.25.09 at 1:08 pm

Hi Barb and Dave (you might like this too, Glenn)…

OT, but here’s a great song by Captain Tractor. The lyrics are very funny and whenever we play this song, it always brings a smile – hope you enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_L9tXEwmc

#134 dave99 on 06.25.09 at 1:27 pm

#130 Barb,

As I posted at #128,

“Actually, no, that’s not what you said. But I don’t blame you for wanting to rewrite it now after the fact.”

Rinse. Wash. Repeat

#135 HJD on 06.25.09 at 2:50 pm

Garth, In view of the logical arguments advanced by you in this blog, why have prices in Montreal increased by 2.4%? I don’t get it.

C’est le fromage. — Garth

#136 Barb the proof reader on 06.25.09 at 3:00 pm

Dave, it’s simple, there’s no re-writing, it’s all there for all to see, you mistook something said about a pseudo-celebrity, and you stomped on it with an attack on the speaker, (it’s as though you’re afraid of pop icons being criticized), so you directly went into personal attack mode. You won’t concede to that, so worse, it could be that you didn’t misunderstand, and that you distorted for other reasons.

You started something in error, so just buck up, opinions are one thing, but when you start personally attacking Commenters you are merely showing your shortcomings.

Either way.. If you can’t tolerate a pseudo-celebrity being criticized, you may be overly sensitive. Use some lotion and don’t over wash and I’m sure it will be soothed in time. Peace.

#137 kw on 06.25.09 at 3:32 pm

Just a word on our venture so far in Nova Scotia. We moved to the north shore area a few years ago. Its like living on another planet. Once the locals know your business they have no further interest in ffa’s (from far aways) Can you believe it? This is what they call people who were not born and raised in NS. Like #67 says. They are insular and clique-y. We were robbed after a year and a half and after visiting with more than 30 neighbours to discuss the theft, no one seemed to know who might do such a thing. This is a very, very small village. Most likely someone from “away”. They were more interested in the shape of the vehicle I was driving. I guess since it didn’t happen to them, tough luck! Other than home prices being reasonable and a few nice months of weather (Sep-Oct) we certainly can’t find anything positive to say about this province. Everything is overpriced. The good jobs are all “occupied” by the cons who never ever left the area. This provides a severe gap between rich and poor. The locals seem bitter, jealous, and resentful. And we never did anything to any of them. We have lived in AB for years and hailed from southern Ont. The friendliest people we met were from Ont. Someday we will likely head back if we ever come out of this financial mess.

#138 Barb the proof reader on 06.25.09 at 3:36 pm

#131 Samantha,

Hi Samantha, Thanks.

In case you’re wondering, on Garth’s old political blog, I’m one of the few people, of the many, many who enjoy Mr. Turner’s views, opinions and writings, who never changed their pen name.
On that blog Mr. Turner’s opponents would do personal attacks on Garth and anybody who agrees with him. There was much discussion, including by Mr. Turner, that their opinions about topics and comments were welcome, but when some of these Commentariats start attacking the person instead of the comment, their methods are pretty shallow.
Garth himself alluded to the fact that his political opponents just don’t seem to be able to let go of criticizing him and anyone who agrees with Garth.
So after all that I’m accustomed to receiving untoward, sudden, and out of the blue personal attacks. Which is not the same as disagreeing with an opinion. It doesn’t bother me if they disagree with my opinion, in fact I appreciate reading everyone’s different views. And although inappropriate attacks on my person don’t bother me, I try to point out to those who make personal attacks, if toward me, that they are only making themselves look foolish in their attempts, and they only put a suspicious sign over their own heads.. they may be Garth’s foes lurking after all. I hate to come right out and say it so I just try to let them off the hook with humour, but they seem like a humourless lot. They certainly seem to be able to dish it out though! (lol!) So some are those who just haven’t grown up and can’t stop themselves from acting out like some sort of teen, but, some are those who are in it for dissing Garth’s former political supporters, you just never know. I’m sure that’s why many here changed their names.

Again, thanks for the video!

#139 Alberta Ed on 06.25.09 at 5:25 pm

A year ago in the spring we spent a month exploring the Okanagan. Prices were unbelievable ($400k+ for a decrepit, 1950’s bungalow on a sand lot), and while the scenery was nice, we found the valley constricting. Access to the lake was very limited. Weather was not too bad for March, but over-rated. Last May we spent a week driving around Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, with an eye to relocating. Very pretty homes, indeed, albeit old (with accompanying renovation costs), and a lot of dogpatch, too. Plus you’re limited to coastal roads to get anywhere quickly; there isn’t a whole lot of access to the interior. The weather can be dreadful, unless you like endless rainy days (OK, we lived in the Wet Coast for more than a decade). Halifax was just grungy, with some interesting history. And then there’s the 13% PST/GST on every damned thing you buy. We came back to Alberta, where we plan to keep our options open, and look for opportunities as the economy realigns and property returns to more sane values. It’s still a beautiful province, despite the no-longer-conservative government, and the moronic Calgary city council.

#140 dave99 on 06.25.09 at 7:20 pm

#134,

Barb, it’s simple. You called the woman a whore.

#141 Kelowna Gal on 06.25.09 at 10:40 pm

To Hal Smith #7 – I couldn’t agree with you more. Do NOT move to Kelowna. It’s over- rated, over- priced, over-congested, unfriendly, materialistic and not very compassionate to those that are less fortunate. How sad. I’ve been born and raised here and I cannot believe what my hometown has turned into.

#142 Soylent Green is People on 06.25.09 at 11:14 pm

I love Lady Gaga.

Poke her poke her poke her face

#143 Brat 2047 on 06.25.09 at 11:35 pm

For someone who’s Not Biting – that’s quite a mouthful – hook, line and sinker… There’s a certain street in Cambridge that will never be the same again :(

#144 barb the proof reader on 06.25.09 at 11:52 pm

Dave99, it’s simple. You called the woman a whore

Yes, dave, it’s very simple, ALL you had to do was look whore up in a dictionary. How could I know you don’t know the meaning of a word..

whore:

noun

1. A vulgar woman who flouts propriety.
2. A woman who engages in sexual acts for money.
3. Compromised principle for personal gain.
4. A venal or unscrupulous person, one capable of betraying honor, duty, or scruples for a price; corruptible.
5. Obtainable for a price.

She pretty much hits the nail on the head for the word whore. If this were a bet, I win. Pay up. Naw, you don’t have to pay, I forgive you. (lol)

#145 dave99 on 06.26.09 at 9:59 am

Barb,

The word “whore” has a vernacular usage to insult and denigrate women, and in particular women’s sexuality. It is a derogatory and misogynist word. It is no coincidence that there is no male equivalent for “whore” just as there is no male equivalent for “slut”.

However, if you like that dictionary definition, strictly speaking you yourself meet 4 of those 5 points you posted.

You’re flouting propriety in calling a woman a whore(1), you’re compromising and unscrupulous in defending your use of the word in your pursuit for the benefit for your ego (3 & 4), and I’m sure you’ve worked for money at some point in your life.

If you will agree that you are also a whore, then we have reached a consensus.

#146 Barb the proof reader on 06.26.09 at 2:24 pm

#143 dave99

Dave

You continue to try to dig yourself out of your error, but YOUR continued personal attacks on me say it all.

The usage historically and in the vernacular, and in the root origin of the word whore, pertain to both sexes. You are trying to highlight one usage of the word to get yourself out of your error.

Even the Urban Dictionary, a ‘modern’ take on the vernacular:

Minor annoyance. You’re not really mad at them, but still kinda pissed, as in:

“Hey, who ate the last doughnut?”

“I did.”

“Whore.”

Dave, in your one-meaning-only use of the word whore, you obviously use the word whore as an expletive. Whore is a descriptive word, with several meanings, but the historical root had nothing to do with sexes, nor sex, it meant “one who desires”

I’ll repeat:
Whore:
1) A person considered sexually promiscuous.
2) A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

Further, you have escalated your untoward and uncalled for personal attacks against a Commenter, an attack that is getting more and more suspect.

From the beginning, this has been you personally attacking me, just like Garth’s political opponents.

I had not addressed you, I had posted a “Comment”. It was regarding Garth’s mocking of a pop wannabe. I wanted to see who it was, and sure enough, Garth was right.

So immediately you pounced and began attacking for no reason. That’s says everything. Funny how all the other such comments by people get ignored by you.

So you purposely or naively re-interpreted what I said, trying to make me look bad for whatever reason. Sorry buddy, that doesn’t cut it.

Then you realize your error, and you realize that I used the word whore properly, so you attempt to narrow the meaning of the word whore to suit yourself.

Then you further escalate your personal attack on me and call me a whore and a slut. Again, you’ve denigrated yourself to the lowest point.

The word whore, has always, and in it’s historical roots, modern day vernacular, been used by people such as yourself as an insult to denigrate women. That’s obviously the way you use it, as evidenced by all your uncalled-for and vicious slander of me.

So that’s the way you use it, that says a lot about you.

However, the fullsome use of the word, historically, books, movies, modern day, has always indicated one who will do anything for gain.

What matters is INTENT. Don’t put your intent on me. My intent, as a Generation Jones who has always heard the word whore in it’s proper usage, used the word per it’s historical context, “one who desires”.

Dave, your use of the word as an expletive reflects on you, and you only. That’s your problem. Don’t hang your problems on me. And don’t even bother citing misogyny, hypocrite, your slip up is that in fact you are committing it. Since I fight for women’s rights, I also expect better behavior and better education from everyone. So I use words in proper and adult context. Your ignorance, again, is not my problem.

And if you keep up your of personal attacks on Commenters, you are only furthering the evidence that you cannot admit to your error. You erred in your judgement of what I said, and your inability to simply admit that, and your escalating attacks say more about you than anything. If you think you can win an argument by attacking and twisting the truth, then you’ve lost from the get go.

#147 Not Biting on 06.26.09 at 2:29 pm

#141. Brat 2047

You certainly live up to your name, and represent Lady Gaga’s song perfectly @ ‘Poker Face’ !
Loss to BC, Alberta, and street in Cambridge is Guelph’s gain – another wonderful community for our American friends to consider.

#148 dave99 on 06.26.09 at 8:32 pm

Barb,

If you want to call women whores, I agree that is your right. Carry on.

Myself (and others) will continue to take offence, as is our right.

regards

#149 Barb the proof reader on 06.26.09 at 10:14 pm

Dave,

Your continued harrassment and distortion of my words has said it all about you. You have no conscience.

You are unable to accept that you were wrong so you’ve decided to take it out on me by CONTINUING to attempt to distort my words. Again, that lack of ability you have to back down and learn the true meaning of a word is telling.

I made a comment about a pseudo-celebrity who denigrates women for her own personal profit. I was right to do so. My action alone shows very clearly and without doubt of any sort that I stand up for women.

You ‘stand’ up for one pseudo-celebrity who doesn’t give a damn about women as long as she can make a buck.

BIG difference. You are pretending to hide behind women’s interests when you so easily denigrate a women yourself. You PRETEND to take offense by continually IMPLYING a distortion of the truth.

And Dave, quit lying. I don’t call “women” whores. That’s YOUR lie. And you know it. Quit playing with my words to try to squirm your way out of your error. It was about one, non-talent person who lusts for money and fame and will do anything for it. Your ignorance is getting to be glaring.

#150 dave99 on 06.27.09 at 3:19 pm

Barb, methinks you do protest too much.

In any event I think we both know that the next time you will think very carefully before you call another woman a whore.

#151 taxpayer like you on 06.27.09 at 6:08 pm

barb/dave99

couldnt we just call lady gaga “sexy” and leave it at that

#152 Barb the proof reader on 06.28.09 at 10:36 am

No Dave, you misinterpreted a post, you protested, you attacked. Then you tried, and tried again, to squirm out of your responsibility by continually slandering, post after post as you figured I’d get bored being bludgeoned by you. And now you want to “compromise” by assigning your guilt to me and get my permission for it? You’re hopeless.

This has been a lesson for you. You should read people’s posts and try to understand what they are saying before you jump all indignant over them. My volunteer work for Women In Need society and Afghanistan women and other groups has always shown me how the power of message in society does have an impact. In this case, commercialization of disrespect, however minor, by men OR women like Gaga, simply further habituates perpetrators, victims and society’s view. It’s a big picture, Dave, and most people who’ve been around the earth long enough connect the dots between behaviour and the influence of messages. Whoring out commercialized sex is her gig, and in the big picture it’s everyone’s responsibility to think twice about what she’s contributing to. I always look at the big picture. And when young men and women have their own young daughter one day, then they ‘get’ the big picture too. The end result of Gaga types is an habituation, and really, a mis-education, just so that someone can make a buck. She doesn’t give a crap what her influence might be, she just wants the money and fame.

So Dave, do me a favour, and pay attention:
I said, and I quote: “commercialized whore”.

And why?

Because Garth said:

“The swamp we fell into last year will stay dangerous for a long time yet, and anyone who thinks we will go from a rerun of the 1930s to a rerun of the 1980s in eight months has been watching way too much Lady Gaga.
This is what makes the economic con-men so troubling. Especially those in positions of media influence and public importance.”

Dave, commercialzed whores ARE economic con men/women. Conning money out of people’s pants. Pretty basic stuff. I’m sad you missed it. That actually makes you part of the problem, albeit a very small part. You may just be one small person, but in a sea of six billion, we’ve got the kind of trouble that gets harder and harder to resolve, because exploiting women’s sexuality is as harmful on the whole, as is suppressing women at the other end of the spectrum. Yeah, men like you see no problem with it, have been groomed for it, and enjoy sexual exploitation, just the like Taliban at the other end of the spectrum see no problem with their little gig. But I call a spade a spade. I actually considered my comment rather benign since I know the meaning of the word whore. Funny though, I’ve never used the word before, just read it in Shakespeare and such.

It’s all about education, Dave, it’s really everyone’s responsibility, including Lady Gaga’s. Yeah, she can do what she wants but at least some people see that she’s probably made it worse for others somewhere, and that’s her responsibility. Don’t shoot me for being able to point it out. There are many people who don’t look beyond their own wallet, or their pants.

Even a masculine whore will exploit a female whore
— Troilus and Cressida, William Shakespeare

So I have a clearer deal…

Make a donation to make up for your 1 in six billionth responsibility:

http://www.womeninneed.net/

#153 dave99 on 06.28.09 at 2:04 pm

Barb,

I think we can assume you’ve learned your lesson?

ps. You may be chastened to learn that I’m a shakespeare director who has performed/directed more than half the canon.

#154 Barb the proof reader on 06.28.09 at 11:41 pm

#151 dave99

It’s very safe to say that you’ve been exposed.

And pray tell, what lesson? The lesson that I shouldn’t have a voice. That real citizens shouldn’t have a voice? That only business groups should have a voice? They intimidate actual people off blogs? I stumbled on it when I realized you’d made a mistake in your posting.

#155 dave99 on 06.29.09 at 8:46 am

Barb,

?? What are you babbling about now?

Your girlfriends with kids called the woman a whore. You posted it on the blog, got some complaints, then justified it with no apology because she humped a blow up dolphin in a kiddy pool in one of her videos and has sexual content to her art which your friends said was inapropriate for children.

Since then you’ve become increasingly unhinged, begun draping yourself in various women’s rights causes, and invested lord knows how many hours trolling around the internet looking for quotes/definitions to exonerate youreself.

More recently you’ve shown some contrition, as you talked about how you never use the word yourself, and it came from your friends. As I’ve said, I think we both know you’re going to be a lot more careful about who you call a whore. You haven’t disagreed and thus I presume you’ve learned your lesson. Correct?

You’ll notice that you’ve slung boat loads of insults at me, and I’ve ignored them because they don’t bother me as they’re nowhere near the mark. In contrast, why is it that you are so bizarrely defensive about what I say?

We can all see that the opinions of people on this blog are extraordinarily important to you, and as such you need to chill out and get a grip. I’m feeling embarrassed for you, and I’m not interested in participating anymore in the “pulling the wings off a fly” drama that this has turned into.

My last post on the matter. Feel free to have the last word, and try to keep it together.

#156 barb the proof reader on 06.29.09 at 10:24 am

Dave,

Your trick of changing what I said won’t work.

Do not misquote nor distort what I say again. I didn’t ‘call her a whore’, I said she was a “Commercial whore” …. everybody in the world knows what that means. Don’t play dumb. I agreed with Garth’s “economic conman” reference, or in her case, economic con woman.

So at any point you want to stop distorting what I’ve said, that will be good.

I don’t take any of this personally. I’m anonymous. But your comments got so strange that I thought of people who probably bully normal citizens like me off of blogs. It seemed like you fitted that bill, although I’m not accusing you of that. I’m just saying your vitriolic game doesn’t ring true. In all the comments you made above, you do everything you can to discredit me, including distortion and crude slander. What the heck are you afraid of, you act like it’s your job or something to discredit me.

My straight-forward comments, and your distortions of what I’ve said and your attack on me as a Commenter, it’s all there under above, under your own postings these past few days. Your ‘last post strategy’ of re-writing history and inexplicably distorting what I’ve written, will hopefully stop if you can keep your word.