No, dear.


The doctor is IN. The first patient today in our moist coastal clinic is Alec.

Enter, my son.  Tell the doc where it hurts.

“My wife and I are 32 years old and own a house in Maple Ridge British Columbia.   We owe about $32,000 on this house and have about $8,000 on a line of credit.  Our mortgage is prime + .15 percent.  Both our cars are paid for and we do not have any other debt.  My wife and I bring in around a $100,000 a year between us.   My wife is itching to buy a second house; for around $500,000.  I do not think it is a good time to buy though. When we do buy we would like to rent out our existing house as rental income.  What do you think of this scenario?  What would you do if you were wearing our shoes?”

So, Alec, are you on drugs? Or just your wife?

I mean, really, the average house in Maple Ridge is worth $450,000, which means you probably have well over $400,000 in equity. At the same time, local sales are slow and prices stagnant, which means your rate of return on that whack of money is zero.

Your mortgage payments are ridiculously low, you have no debts (other than the LOC) and your two-income household (no kids mentioned) brings in $10oK. In case you didn’t notice you’re doing better than 90% of Canadians. So why do you want to screw it up?

First, think through this second house scenario. The only way you could buy a second $500,000 property is to heavily mortgage your existing place, raising $250,000 or so to put against the new one, which would still carry a mortgage of equal size. In other words, you have to rent out your existing home just to pay for the financing on it, plus property taxes and maintenance – for a net income of (at best) nothing. Then you’d have an equal financial load to carry on the second home. Trust me, this is not the way you achieved your existing net worth at age 32.

Worse, you’re taking on substantial debt when interest rates are at their lowest point ever, which means the cost of the financing will be going in only one direction. Conceivably, this could double your payments five years out. Even worse, you are flinging all your eggs into one basket with a headlong plunge into more real estate, at a time the long-term prospects for capital appreciation are as appealing as Michael Jackson.

In short, how could smart and successful people be so dumb?

If you want a trophy house, just admit it. Sell your existing place, trade up, and spend quality time stroking the granite and stainless. You’ll end up with a new $150,000 mortgage, which is a hell of a lot better than $500,000 in debt and two properties to worry about.

But if you’re asking the doc what to do to become financially independent, it would be to unlock some of the $400K you now have in equity (earning nothing) and put it to work. You can do that by selling and downsizing, by remortgaging and investing in stocks, commodities, funds or bonds (and thereby creating a tax-deductible mortgage), or through a HELOC used for the same purpose. Or, you can simply get a leverage loan based on your net worth, unsecured by your real estate.

But the last thing you should do is heed your wife.

Your prescription will be ready in a moment. She won’t feel a thing.


#1 . . . fried eggs and spam . . . on 05.25.09 at 12:53 am

“. . . well over $400,000 in equity. . . . taking on substantial debt . . . as appealing as Michael Jackson. . . . by remortgaging and investing in stocks, commodities, funds . . .”

Remortgage Michael Jackson? I’d say the US housing market is a better bet, but it could be an option for the future!

Depending upon circumstances, downsize and with spare change, invest some in commodities and energy stocks, three or four good Cdn. equity mutual funds, with monthly dividend payouts being automatically reinvested to acquire more shares, thus building a reasonably good pension plan (don’t expect anything from the feds or provinces).

Keep a rainy day fund for emergencies in a six-month to one-year rollover GIC.
A different and humorous take on the flu ‘industry’. —
This is more to the point — worldwide unrest due to mass unemployment. —

“The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency.” — Vladimir Lenin

Debauching a currency or destabilizing a society are almost one and the same thing. That is what is in vogue now.
Why are the US and France so keen to do business with the UAE, while Russia supplies Jordan? — /\ /\

#2 dbg on 05.25.09 at 1:08 am

Nice scenario but I can’t believe that it’s a real letter. Not many 32 year old couples with their mortgage basically paid for. Probably zilch …….in the lower mainland.

Why would they be asking for advice….. they should be giving it.

#3 jesse on 05.25.09 at 2:09 am

Yes, it’s best to look at renting out a property on its own merit, not some complicated mix of financing on multiple properties. If the property cannot carry itself with the rent you charge and produce a decent return, you will never be able to recoup the money unless there is a future speculative bubble above current valuations within your investment time frame.

Buy a new place if you must but take Garth’s advice: don’t be a landlord unless you are into leveraged casino betting. With current valuations, the “house” is almost definitely going to win.

#4 Jeremy on 05.25.09 at 2:39 am

“Enter, my son. Tell the doc where it hurts.”

Garth, are you pretending to be catholic priest or a medical doctor? Because the mixed metaphore is kind of creeping me out.

Good advice for the flock/patient, although the fact that he felt the need to ask makes me think he’s probably going to let his wife talk him into it anyway. I’ve met too many people just like him, living in Maple Ridge, telling themselves stories about the massive increase in the already stratospheric housing prices that will happen after they open the Golden Ears bridge.

I’ll happily continue to rent in Burnaby, no mortgage, no bridges between me and work, no problem.

#5 wjp on 05.25.09 at 5:07 am

Is this the first shot over the bow of the U.S.A.?

#6 wjp on 05.25.09 at 5:16 am

Since the case for Canada having a stronger and different economy is being made by some on this blog, why aren’t the Chinese looking at the Canadian Bonds?

#7 wjp on 05.25.09 at 5:25 am

Could this be an argument why the recession recovery will be L shaped rather than V shaped?

#8 wjp on 05.25.09 at 5:53 am

Is China set to lead the world economies out of recession?
You might want to ponder this…

#9 David Bakody on 05.25.09 at 6:50 am

WELL “LOL” Garth this is the best joke of all …… no person (s) on the face of this earth having achieved so much in so little time could be that dumb! This is the first post I never read to the last line ( wait I stand corrected I skipped to the punch line) …. if you two are so bored and want to throw all that achievement down the drain ….. “Listen” Alec get a mistress and Mrs. ALec find a lover and believe me y’all will not be thinking about money for long …….. silly silly people …. grow up get a life!!!

A human being has a natural desire to have more of a good thing than he needs.
– Following the Equator Mark Twain

#10 JO on 05.25.09 at 7:14 am

A little off topic, but Ottawa and Ontario just agreed to join the US in giving more taxpayer dough to the deadbeat GM..and by the way, billions of our taxpayer money is being diverted deceptively into paying for existing retiree pensions after long insisting they would not do it.

I don’t care what industry, unionized or not uunionized, needs this, but this is wrong…how come the media is so quiet about this ???? The majority who have no pensions (or those who do have pensions that are meagre compared to the ones their tax money is about to pay for) will be paying for these GM retirees to go golfing on very generous payouts…

This is wrong.


#11 Future Expatriate on 05.25.09 at 7:15 am

“why aren’t the Chinese looking at the Canadian Bonds?”

Because although Canada is solvent, China needs to foreclose against Canada’s nasty crimelord neighbor to the south.

Don’t blame China: Blame the crackhouse next door in hock to the Chinese landlord up to their children.

And when you foreclose on crackhouse crimelords, too often the entire neighborhood gets shot up, and real estate values, already in the garbage, plunge even lower.

Especially when they have nowhere else to go, and no way to get there.

#12 ally ally oxycontin free on 05.25.09 at 8:09 am

Memorial Day Disaster

#13 ally ally oxycontin free on 05.25.09 at 8:16 am

Meanwhile, the PM, finance minister, and bank of Canada governor continue to mislead Canadians.

PBO says, “There are no policy statements in any of this stuff. We’re not taking any cheap shots at anybody. We’re just providing information based on our own analysis and they can question us!”

But timing in politics is everything. And timing for a minority government navigating the most severe economic downturn in decades is critical. So when the PBO seemed to contradict Minister of Finance Jim Flaherty’s November economic update—the intended feel-good, confidence-building moment that turned out to be a too-rosy-by-half, pie-in-the-sky bit of political chicanery that eventually sent the country spinning into a constitutional crisis—it could be anticipated that some payback would be in the cards. And it probably didn’t help that the PBO’s forecast was essentially correct.

#14 Nostradamus jr. on 05.25.09 at 8:35 am

#8 wjp
>Is China set to lead the world economies out of recession?<

…How can China lead?

Last month there were 50 million unemployed Chinese walking city streets.

…Wait…then watch China implode.

The Chinese elite are relocating quietly.

…Where to?

The Pacific Northwest…Portland/Seattle/Vancouver.

…Watch and Learn…

#15 Reg on 05.25.09 at 8:41 am

Remember, there are times when it is GOOD to be a landlord. Specifically if your accountant is telling you to get more tax write-offs.

#16 Signal Loss on 05.25.09 at 9:04 am

China has its own major structural problems. And China and America are symbiotically linked: China makes and supplies stuff, and Americans buy it. China has no choice but to make and supply stuff to America because the party entered into a social contract with the masses: if you supplicate yourselves to the party, allow the party apparatus to continue to rule you without contest, and not demand real democratic reforms, the party will ensure that your standard of living increases indefinitely. The only way it can do this is by selling stuff to the Americans – it has no internal demand of its own to speak of. But now it’s in real trouble: Americans aren’t buying and in fact are now saving. Millions of chininese people, having tasted the wages of manufacturing jobs, are now losing those wages.

#17 asp on 05.25.09 at 9:31 am

Even better, downsize to a place within walking distance to their jobs and dump the fossil-fuel guzzling cars. That’s likely worth an extra grande a month to put in their RRSP’s.

#18 dave99 on 05.25.09 at 10:06 am

#14 Nostradamus,

You’ve made the same post about 1000 times. Don’t you get it? No-one cares! Would you please stop spamming the board and piss off?

Seriously. Don’t you have homework to do or something?

#19 smw on 05.25.09 at 11:14 am

#14 Nostradamus jr.

Into the paint chips again I see…

#20 OttawaMike on 05.25.09 at 11:55 am

The future for real estate agents everywhere may be this California story:,0,7207801.story

I believe their industry here is due for a major tuneup, including revamped fee structures, thinning of ranks and even more regulations.

#21 Dan in Victoria on 05.25.09 at 12:17 pm

Wow! if your’re 32 years old and you have acomplished that with NO help from parents or lottery winings give yourself a well deserved pat on the back.I think you two should calm down and look at the bigger picture.Why would you borrow a whack of cash to go buy a second house,what are you really going to get out of it?If you two can squirrel away money like you claim,why not wait a few years and buy for cash?Take a minute and read this and other blogs,read the links,is there anyone who is compentent saying it’s a good time to buy?At your age you have not experienced a downturn, your turn is coming don’t be in a rush to cripple yourself.

#22 Jon B on 05.25.09 at 12:52 pm

The Doctor needs to see Patients that are in the critical condition ward. This Maple Ridge couple have simply over consumed on HGTV content.

#23 Munch on 05.25.09 at 1:03 pm

Nostradamus makes a lot of sense

Butt he makes the pointly badly

I bet he’s a social misfit

Happy Holidays (apparently)

#24 David on 05.25.09 at 1:06 pm

Remember that old saw; If your outgo exceeds your income your upkeep will be your downfall.
And don’t forget the new housing bubble era maxim DEBT = WEALTH. No matter how much fancy financial footwork gets done, Alec and spouse will still be borrowing another $500K for that second house. That is 66% outside the safety zone, based on stated income if one uses the standard metric of 3X gross family income.
No wonder why the real estate industry needs a thorough Darwinian cleansing.

#25 Dan in Victoria on 05.25.09 at 1:08 pm

Alec, read this, it’s from our side of the rockies,mohican has some gems of advice for you today.

#26 Got A Watch on 05.25.09 at 1:14 pm

sorry for duplicate post if any, I am not seeing the post “waiting to be moderated” so I am not sure if it was received.

#27 Bill on 05.25.09 at 1:30 pm

She wants a house to feel spectacular in. Who cares about debt. It’s all about looking and feeling good.

Let’s face it – no woman wants to be “poor”. If their girlfriends have a nice big house, then she wants one too. If they have Gucci handbags, BMW, designer clothes, then buddy you better get working.

He earns, she spends. Isn’t this what the media says?

By the time the guy manages to pay off some debt, he will have a heart attack and die.

It’s not easy keeping the wife happy these days. Women are not like they used to be. They used to help run the house on a narrow budget. Now give her a credit card, and it’s off to the races.

#28 Jonathan on 05.25.09 at 1:34 pm

#14 Nostradamus

You have no life

#29 Grumpydawgs on 05.25.09 at 1:53 pm

Garth, you said, ” If you want a trophy house, just admit it’, or something to that effect. Very astute of you to see through the breeze of rationizations the ‘patient’ was slinging you. Garth one of the reasons people on the west coast are so desperate to own real estate at any cost is deeply sociological. Simply put, they have no other avenue of expression. In Vancouver, for example, there is no culture, no galleries, no theatre, no arts movement, no brilliant historical architecture, no urban scene, no proximity to anything interesting, no intellectual or cafe culture.

If you don’t want to ‘bushwalk’ in Vancouver you are SOL for any other kind of outlet. So, people pretend to have a life by wrapping themselves in ‘things’, by which they express themselves. The pervasive mind numbing advertising is all about determing your femininity or masculinity by how you stack up against the current model of real estate or automobile. In Vancouver you can’t be ‘somebody’ unless you conform to a pre-ordained ‘norm’. You see this everywhere, people dressing exactly alike, stores all selling exactly the same thing , driving all the same cars in terms of what is currently being advertised on heavy rotation and coveting real estate because it has overwhelmed your ability to express youself in any other way. My wife and I were fortunate to live in large international cities during various points in our careers and life and living is very differant when living in cities which offer great diversity. You find people who don’t want to own auto’s because they are costly and inconvieniant, lots of people don’t buy real estate for the same reasons and they have too many other things to do with their lives. They have intrests, and they have a lot of disposable capital with which to fund those intrests. Many Europeans for example don’t parade around shopping malls all the time for ‘entertainment’ or join the long lines of traffic driving to a popular place to show off your newest car. The time invested in such boring behaviour is useless time spent pretending when you could be living instead. The advertisers use the locals fear of being alone to great advantage.

#30 CalgaryRocks on 05.25.09 at 1:59 pm

#17asp. Re: dumping the car

Forget about it. A car is freedom, and besides, my jobs change way too often to buy a house based on them. At one company, I worked in 3 different locations in less than 2 years.

#31 D from London, ON on 05.25.09 at 2:15 pm

#20 – Ottawa Mike

I for one would definitely be a user of this type of service, if it were available in Canada (does anyone know if it is?).

I dislike the monopoly Realtor’s have here – it is just another level of tax levied by the real estate/development industry. The internet has been about disintermediation, and so many of these high-cost-low-value-added middlemen have been squeezed out of businesses in the last 20 years (e.g. travel agents, stock brokers, insurance brokers). The ones that remain offer premium service at premium prices, for those who wish to use their services.

While the model proposed in the article might not be for everyone, we should at least have a choice – if someone wants premium service they can pay a premium price. If someone else (like me) wants to do their own analysis, etc. then they should be able to do so, and pay a discounted price for the services they actually use (like filing forms, or negotiation, or whatever it is they want to outsource).

The days of one-size-fits-all have been disappearing for years. It’s time the service menu was drastically altered to suit the consumer of the services, and not the provider.

#32 @Garth 2 on 05.25.09 at 2:38 pm

Just wondering if the Xurbia IPO rumour is true?

#33 Barb the proof reader on 05.25.09 at 2:40 pm

#10 JO “….paying for these GM retirees to go golfing on very generous payouts… This is wrong.” ~JO


For what it’s worth, please consider who you are talking about. My father-in-law is 100% disabled, bedridden — imprisoned in his bed the past few decades, only leaving in a ambulance once in awhile to see his doctor for emergencies. He can’t feed himself nor go to the bathroom himself in any way. He has had a progressive disease for decades that has him near the end.

Such retirees have never been “golfing” as you so sheepishly accuse.

He was with GM.

GM gave him a career.

GM, or at least his Union, allowed him to be “middle class”.

He worked to 65 despite his disabilty, thanks to his Union. He was treated as a human being, and he is allowed “dignity” now in his long, drawn out failing, thanks to his GM PENSION.

His GM pension that allows him to buy a new mattress, soft enough to prevent further gangrene and amputation again.

But oh no, Jo, you want to paint GM retirees as the monsters. Shame on you. And shame on you for leaving out the facts. Consider this. My father-in-law, who KNOWS the numbers, he knows the amount of pensioners who have retired over the past 40 years, vast decades of GM pensioners, says he does not know what all the fuss is about… the billions you are talking about is peanuts compared to the actual billions. This, quite literally, is about saving people’s lives, often sick and disabled in their “retirement years”.

Thank goodness in this world of corporate monsters, the innocent have been protected by Unions. There was a time I was duped by corporate liars too. Not anymore.

By the way, ditto for my brother and brother-in-law. Unions actually saved their lives, and I’m not saying that as a figure of speech. It’s true.

Your lack of insight, and willingness to blurt it, is frightening.

#34 Flip on 05.25.09 at 3:07 pm

#14 Nostradamus jr.

Problem is: North Korea puts together little nuclear tests while the global community condemns it… why do you ask?

I would think that hitting Wank-couver with a little nuke in the middle of the Olympics would make a strong statement… just a thought… enjoy the games…

#35 wjp on 05.25.09 at 3:20 pm

Now that the Finance Minister has told us the deficit will be SUBSTANTIALLY larger than his projection in January due to less tax revenues and a larger number of E.I benefits being paid out, this would suggest that the Federal Government appears to be unable to get a handle on this recession and unable to project the proper effect.
This would also suggest, although he denied it, that the pay back will take longer than the four years promised in January, and that tax rates in Canada for individuals may have to be increased. In Ontario, we will be facing a tax increase when the harmonized sales tax takes effect, now we may also be facing a personal income tax hike. Now I appreciate that projecting the numbers in a recession is not all that easy, but I also suspect the politicians in Ottawa could be talking their book, trying to make things look better than they are. (We might want to listen to the Budget Office over the politicians) I have grave concerns for the American economy, municipalities all over the U.S are in trouble, and this will have an impact on our economy as they are our largest trading partner. There has been talk of green shoots, and I also suspect that is all talk as well. It appears the stimulus package announced in January has yet to be implemented as the Finance Minister today said they have to get it moving. What have they been doing since January? Well folks, as the man from the Orange Bank says “save your money”. It appears we will need it big time to pay off these ballooning deficits appearing on the horizon!

#36 timbo on 05.25.09 at 3:32 pm

#6 wjp ,
google the author with the tag gold.
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard gold

you are just linking agenda blogs that are out to raise hype and fear by authors who are paid to scare.

google the author everyone when you see a scary article. Probably years ago had ideas on y2k

#14 nos,

right on, china with its wages can take over the world..
” in 2005, the per capita annual income of Chinese urban residents was 10,493 yuan, or $1,294 at the official exchange rate of 8.11 yuan to a dollar. The per capita annual income of rural residents was 3,255 yuan, or $401″

Sorry to say but no one is an island and if china does not support a recovery in the US its trade will dry up and so will its surplus.

#37 gold bugger on 05.25.09 at 4:01 pm

D from London writes: “I dislike the monopoly Realtor’s have here – it is just another level of tax levied by the real estate/development industry.”


Realtors do not have a monopoly. There are full-fee realtors, low-fee realtors, FSBO outfits, and the choice of going FSBO yourself.

Re your concept of what constitutes a “tax.” A tax is imposed. There is no choice. I must pay income tax. I must pay GST. I must pay this, that or another tax that various levels of government impose on me. A realtor’s commission, on the other hand, is the mutually agreed-upon fee between a client and his/her realtor. Nobody forces you to use a realtor. Nobody forces you to pay this, that or another commission. If your realtor refuses to negotiate by using some phoney-baloney line such as, “The red, white & blue balloon company’s office policy is that we must charge 7%,” then call another realtor.

Stop whining you spineless babies.

#38 Rhino on 05.25.09 at 4:02 pm

#29 Grumpydawgs on 05.25.09 at 1:53 pm

Ha ha ha ha ha…. Ya made me cough up my tea!

As a Montrealer, where we definitely have more “culture” than “money”, I confirm you hit this one squarely on the head!

Having visited Lotusland, even living thereabout twice, you certainly described what I experienced, and why I came back east.

That said… we in Quebec are over obsessed with our culture, so there are drawbacks. The nice thing about it is all the low cost things to do, arranged by our cosmopolitain community, with huge ethnic diversity, and supported by local and provincial governments. At least I have a “life” here that does not necessarily cost a lot.

Seem to me I know a cliche about “nouveau rich” having to show off their wealth. while established wealthy tend to do things in a classy, understated way.

Pretty obvious that “history” out there started several hundred years after the east.

They do have nice wilderness though…

#39 Rhino on 05.25.09 at 4:15 pm

#33 Barb the proof reader on 05.25.09 at 2:40 pm

Barb… you know that 99.9% of the time I agree with you, but I must say one thing about your post.

As a taxpayer, WITHOUT A FANCY PENSION FROM A MANUFACTURER, it pisses me off that my tax money is going to be spent propping up a company that RAPED their own employee’s pension funds. Can anyone tell me how they got away with that when the government was supposed to be watching?

It is not about the retirees, who risk getting screwed. If my tax dollars are going to be spent on them, then to be fair, I should expect a HUGE check from the government for MY RETIREMENT.

Companies I worked for went tits-up, and I lost future pension.

But, no, I will have to exist on CPP and OAS – which will also go to GM employees ON TOP of their pensions.

Fair is fair. Sorry about your Dad, but I cannot understand why I must pay for his retirement – among thousands of others, many who are healthy – when I am going to have to struggle for survival.

There are lots of retirees getting hit by stock downturn, poor government policy/regulation, etc. Sorry, but I do not hear much being done for them (us). They(we) do not make headlines like GM….

#40 Live Within Your Means on 05.25.09 at 4:21 pm

Recession axe hits Hollywood

#41 CM on 05.25.09 at 4:21 pm

Deficit bigger than expected, Flaherty says

Maybe bigger than YOU expected, Jimbo. Most of the rest of Canada were already clued in.

#42 ralph on 05.25.09 at 4:25 pm

“Canada deficit to be much larger than expected ”


#43 dave on 05.25.09 at 4:38 pm

They should take their extra money and buy some gold:

#44 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.25.09 at 4:38 pm

#33 Barb the proof reader

BUT! BUT, stereotyping is soooo much easier than thinking, eh?

#45 Live Within Your Means on 05.25.09 at 4:43 pm

Flaherty warns of ‘substantially higher’ deficit

Gees, its taken this govt this long to predict this – GST reductions, Income Trust fiasco, spending the surplus like drunken sailors.

#46 M R Ducks on 05.25.09 at 4:59 pm

Lost Vegas death spiral..

Preview of things to come for the rest of us?
Renters are being forced out with no notice.. 20 minutes to get out and whatever belongings you can’t get out within 20 minutes now belongs to the bank.

Sure feels like legalized theft to me.

#47 Jason on 05.25.09 at 5:02 pm


I’m very interested in your investment club, how might I join? Meet at the upcoming World Resource Conference, perhaps?

Please reply to: [email protected]

#48 CalgaryRocks on 05.25.09 at 5:04 pm

#33 re unions

Bah, unions look only after themselves. Even worse, within the same union, they have abandonned the new generation. I say you guys should get to cut back like everyone else rather than make others pay for your excesses.

Come to me with your sob story next time a transit union goes on strike in the middle of winter.

#49 EW on 05.25.09 at 6:01 pm

Prices in the US have a-lot further to fall. Still a good idea where Canadian prices are heading….

Median House Price Loss: Metropolitan Areas Over 1,000,000 Population

Rank Metropolitan Area
Median House Price % Loss from 2000-2008 Peak

Median House Price Loss from 2000-2008 Peak

1 Riverside-San Bernardino, CA -57.7% $235,600
2 Sacramento, CA -56.5% $219,600
3 San Francisco, CA -52.5% $444,800
4 Phoenix, AZ -51.9% $139,200
5 Cleveland, OH -51.5% $74,300
6 Las Vegas, NV -51.3% $163,800
7 Los Angeles, CA -48.8% $289,400
8 San Jose, CA -48.0% $415,000
9 San Diego, CA -47.5% $291,900
10 Miami-West Palm Beach, FL -47.3% $185,200
11 Orlando, FL -43.1% $117,200
12 Tampa-St. Petersburg, FL -42.2% $98,800
13 Washington, DC-VA-MD-WV -37.3% $165,900
14 St. Louis, MO-IL -35.8% $56,300
15 Chicago, IL -35.2% $100,900


#50 Live Within Your Means on 05.25.09 at 6:11 pm

#27 Bill on 05.25.09 at 1:30 pm

Bill – what a sexist post. There are as many men who were willing to max out their cards as women. Guess you don’t read/watch what I do.

#51 ValueHunter on 05.25.09 at 6:21 pm

At 32, pulling 100k per year and owned a house worth nearly half a million with only 32k in outstanding mortgage, and he is asking Garth for advice?

How did he/they pull this off?

#52 john m on 05.25.09 at 6:22 pm

41 CM on 05.25.09 at 4:21 pm

Deficit bigger than expected, Flaherty says

Maybe bigger than YOU expected, Jimbo. Most of the rest of Canada were already clued in.———-no kidding since the Harper government got elected they have had great difficulty telling the truth about anything—last election remember ! there was a surplus and we were not going into debt–we were already in debt –there was no surplus—and WOW are we heading deeper in debt every day ..the taxpayers will be paying for this for generations and their bailouts haven’t put a meal on anyones table that needed it–years of taxes have been doled out to the incompetent fat cats who got us here in the first place–just makes me warm all over!

#53 JO on 05.25.09 at 6:24 pm

# 33 Barb- Your father in law ‘s situation is very rare. The vast majority of recent retirees (last 5 yrs)are in fact paid very generous pensions…I have a strong family tradition of union membership (I am not..brothers, father etc). The issue is around this entitlement mentality that permeates society..especially the special interest groups you so love. I come from a working class family and started with nothing. Many, not all, Unions are every bit the greedy bastards that corporate chiefs are. If the unions have been good to you, i am glad to hear. But I need to stress my issue is with any party (corporate/union) coming to ask for money that is taken from the fruits of other people’s labours.

Our tax money should not be used for any of this nonsense. No matter what. But i have to say to you and other socialist paradise comrades who have the “, we are owed something” mentality crowd: you are the people the majority who pay the bills have to worry about.

Worry about yourself, and it is no one’s responsibility to pay your pension or anyone else’s for that matter – regardless of industry or union/non unionized status. As angry as I am about having almost half my income taken from my pocket and used to pay for very generous pensions most of us will not have, I know it will resolve itself. This bailout era will come to an end and any bailed out pensions will still be reduced to what they would have been without the taxpayer dough..all this Harper action means is a delay in the day of reckoning and passing on the hard decision batton to a future PM.

I hope you work in: police/firefighters, military, social services, health, education or are someone who directly supports the front line staff in these areas. If not, then go back to your GM/Chrysler line or government bereaucrat cubicle and serve us civilians. Or better yet, get a real job where you don’t live off our income.

#54 don't get me started on 05.25.09 at 6:36 pm

For those wondering why first-time homebuyers are putting themselves into great financial peril on over-priced houses with low down, long amort mortgages that they don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of keeping up with when they renegotiate in 5 years at a higher interest rate:

There just isn’t decent rental housing available in some places. I’ve attended viewings with 20 other hopeful tenants vying for the same decrepit, substandard rental unit. I’ve endured the humiliation of group interviews by landlords who can’t be bothered to spare the time for applicants individually. I’ve lived in rentals where you couldn’t flush the toilet off and on for weeks on end because the sewer pipes are blocked and the landlord is too cheap to call a proper plumber, or there’s no heat for a week in January because the furnace breaks or the hot water heater breaks and you’re stuck with cold showers until they can be bothered to fix it. I suspect a lot of those first-time buyers know they’re taking a huge risk, but don’t care because it at least buys them 5 years of decent housing before they have to figure out a solution, as opposed to having to live in squalor today. I totally understand it.

#55 Real Estate Deal or No Deal on 05.25.09 at 6:48 pm

I didn’t buy … I am renting for the next year or so … let the cards fall as they may.

#56 Da HK Kid on 05.25.09 at 7:21 pm

If the above letter is true and you are within the top 90% of canucks as Garth suggests then why not go 99% and sell – rent!

I tend to agree with some of the others here that this is a longshot letter so may I submit a my further brutal reality response below!

If your wife doesnt understand then dump her, give her half and still be ahead of the game when the dust settles.

There will be allot of opportunity on the horizon, if you get my drift!!!!!

#57 . . . fried eggs and spam . . . on 05.25.09 at 7:26 pm

Somebody turned up the heat here, or maybe we’re on The Road To Hell!

#14 Nostradamus jr. at 8:35 am — Correct, but this may exacerbate things, at least temporarily —

There are further developments happening between the US and China. For instance . . .

“. . . China is buying more U.S. bonds than ever… because it has too many (bonds) . . . it supports the dollar, it risks a big collapse in the value of its foreign exchange holdings . . . Now, the Fed is buying U.S. Treasury bonds. So are the Chinese. Supporting each other, they are also supporting prices of bonds – which happen to be the largest single source of financing for the U.S. government and the largest single liquid asset of the Chinese government. . . . what happens when both the US and China turn into sellers?” —

From “. . . Investors overseas are doing precisely the opposite. They’re dumping U.S. assets [not China]. They’re driving those assets down in price. . . . Long-term interest rates are getting ready to soar far further. . . . Dow will plunge to 5,000; S&P, to 500.”

FWIW, I still hold to the Dow settling at 1500, S&P correct and NASDAQ 100. But that’s today’s forecast!

Also, #34 Flip at 3:07 pm — “. . . a little nuke in the middle of the Olympics . . .”

Trouble is the San Andreas Fault runs down the west of Vancouver Island and, like the Superman movie, a nuke landing in the vicinity could trigger a major hiccup down that way.

Then again, it helps the NWO with their population reduction scheme!
To keep y’all warm and cuddly in bed tonight, here’s a catnap or two!– /\

#58 lgre on 05.25.09 at 7:32 pm

#33 – I feel bad for you FIL and wish that type of life on nobody, but what did he do with his money over the last several decades that he was working..GM employees made well above incomes for decades..why does he not have any money?

If he was living in a country where healthcare was his responsibility, then I can see that maybe a lot of his money was spent on that..

The problem is that GM workers spent like it was 1929 all their life and saved zilch, now the party has ended and the taxpayer should pay so they can continue their life in paradise, in most cases..

#59 dd on 05.25.09 at 7:36 pm

Think contra ….

sell the home … rent … invest most in long term assets of oils and agriculture … retire in 15 years … done.

#60 hagbard on 05.25.09 at 7:56 pm

For the non-believers “The Dangers of Printing Money” from Time:,29307,1879735,00.html

#61 David Bakody on 05.25.09 at 8:10 pm

#45 Live Within Your Means on 05.25.09 at 4:43 pm

easy on sailors bye ….. try drunken cowboys home from the range!

#33 Barb the proof reader on 05.25.09 at 2:40 pm

Well said Barb, my farther a WW II vet died on Christmas Day (1968) at age 65 and worked for a non union company and received nothing! and no CCP benefits either and my Mum told me she had $85 left in the bank after the funeral ….. I am willing to bet the company executives and management had no such hard luck. How many times have we read: CEO fired with multi millions in severance? and then their was those Wall Street Fat Cats who spend $420K on a party after receiving billions in bailouts.

Some people only see their life and never another Barb. Hope your Father in law finds peace at times in his long courageous battle with life.

#62 Canned Goods and Buckshot on 05.25.09 at 8:56 pm

Hello dd #59,

How is that advice contra?

#63 popeye the sailor man on 05.25.09 at 9:07 pm

#61 I agree; easy on the sailors.

#64 $fromA$ia on 05.25.09 at 9:45 pm

Dual income no kids = DINKS Way to go. Add two kids to the conversation and we go from $400k to $200k.


#65 taxpayer like you on 05.25.09 at 9:49 pm

33 Barb.

Sorry, despite your FILs poor health, I have to side with Jo and other bloggers on this due to prinicples.

All pensions have:

1) Structure. In the case of GM, what is the pension
structure? Ive read where some “pensions” are actually
not much more than promises of the company to pay
retirees. The assets are actually company assets, and
are liable to be seized by creditors. This would seem a
rather foolish arrangement for any union to agree to.

2) Funding. The GM pension was known to be
underfunded back in the 90s, – GM, union, Ontario govt all
knew it.

3) Investments. If the investments tank, and are not govt backed, then thats the way it is.

So why should it be any more protected than my RRSP?
Sorry, I do not approve of ANY of my tax money going to
prop up GM pensions. I dont live in Ontario, but I
understand the tax money there may kick in $1000/mo.

As far as the corporate bailout, I’m no happier about that either, but I dont think there was much of a choice given what the Obamanation was going to do.

Our best hope is that the money and restructure salvages something out of this mess (a downsized competitive GM we can only hope) that may help the pension fund stay solvent.

Best wishes to your family.

#66 Bottoms_Up on 05.25.09 at 9:51 pm

Canada’s deficit to be substantially greater than the projected ~35 billion.

Guesses? I say it comes in around 55 billion (~$1600/person). A great time to buy a second house!!

#67 Bottoms_Up on 05.25.09 at 10:02 pm

To the readers of this blog: what is the easiest way to get comparables without having to enlist the services of a realtor? Local tax office? Canvass door to door? Thanks in advance.

#68 Marc on 05.25.09 at 10:06 pm

#27 Bill on 05.25.09 at 1:30 pm

I think my wife must have been cheating on me with you. Either that or we married identical women?

#69 Investx on 05.25.09 at 10:07 pm

“#14 Nostradamus,

You’ve made the same post about 1000 times. Don’t you get it? No-one cares! Would you please stop spamming the board and piss off?”

That would be nice.

#70 dd on 05.25.09 at 10:36 pm

#62 Canned Goods and Buckshot on 05.25.09 at 8:56 pm Hello dd #59,

How is that advice contra?

Advice … if you look into the future that “big” fancy house will be a burden with very high heating costs, interest rates, and food. Oil and food will be where it is at. Housing … it is a roof over the head. Things are going to get a lot more expensive. A big house will just add to the problems. Actually small houses will be the thing if anything.

#71 Eduardo on 05.25.09 at 10:46 pm


Did you see the Kearl Lake oil sands project by Exxon/Imperial Oil that got approved today? You have been very vocal about the cancellations, you should be ecstatic that more jobs will be coming back to Alberta.

This means thousands of high end jobs coming back. Wow, those layoffs at the EPC firms sure lasted a long time!

#72 Calgary_the_prize on 05.25.09 at 10:52 pm


You are with the wrong woman. All men lack what I have: My wife. And no amount of hedge funds/cars/viagra will ever change that fact. And one another thing: She is from British Columbia. If she gets mad because she does all the cleaning, she doesnt complain, wont talk. That’s her way of dealing with it. Good luck Bill finding a woman like my wife. There are no women worth your time and money here in Calgary. It wont happen because Calgary is all about lust and greed, and women like the above who wants the big house are nothing more than a tease. He who pays the big fee is entitled to a walk in the grand canyon-and pray that that canyon isnt big.

A prime example is the newspapers here, the political view and how almost every woman cuts her hair the same: Short in back with the long bangs or maybe black and then bleached blonde-it all sucks.

Renters/serfs/slaves to corporate politics unite!

#73 rory on 05.25.09 at 11:05 pm

#65, #66 & Others

Just cannot wait for the new EI reforms to kick in after the next election …more debt, more taxpayer burden after an already skyrocketing deficit …Liberals, NDP & Bloc …what a trio…does any party actually have a clue…any idiot can spend and spend…sorry NDP, but JL is the biggest…IMO.

I have not seen a $$$ amount attached to this new reform …anyone????

Side Note on pensions …nice to see that the pension issue is being noticed. It will be a hugely decisive issue between the haves and have. It will bring unrest if the gov’t tax the ones that do not have for the benefit of those that do have …public service employees need to keep a low profile going forward …as in no strikes or labor conflicts as the citizenry will have no tolerance, whatsoever…IMO.

A ty to Pol_Can for stuff.

#74 to all please on 05.25.09 at 11:06 pm

Please all of you of this web site, do the easy thing:
1. google jim flagherty
2. send him an e-mail of strong disapproval for socializing corporate losses.

When they fly a balloon, we must at least respond. Never been so easy.

If you want no socialization of corporate losses, say it to the man.

#75 Hjalmar Schacht on 05.25.09 at 11:08 pm

Is there ANYTHING indicating a substantial reduction in national or international (US) debt, which is equivalent to a reduction in the money supply?

And no, I do not mean future debt or promises of reductions of future debt, or ‘indications’ of a less-rapid rate of debt accumulation. I mean actual paydown or payoff (not simple displacement) of present, committed, government, corporate, and/or private debt.


(Because without this, there can be no real deflation).

#76 rory on 05.25.09 at 11:22 pm

#72 Calgary_the_prize

Glenn…is that you????…rolf …where did the Russian babe go …I hear the SA rand is doing well …Hey Munch is she there.

#77 Hjalmar Schacht on 05.25.09 at 11:26 pm

#71 Eduardo –

No, there will not be “thousands of high-end jobs coming back”. IOL is a creepy, slow-moving, well-funded subcomponent of XOM, that will do what it can to get cheapest, temporary labour, under the tightest conditions possible. That’s why it waited until it could negotiate prices and wages down in the middle of a depression.

The only fly in the ointment for them is that it is their biggest project yet, and uses unfamiliar financial dynamics and technology – mining – of which they have no prior experience.

For a multi-billion dollar project the size of Kearl, it’s noteworthy that they had recently advertised only for about a half-dozen mining type jobs. But dollars to doughnuts the recent big, pointless ‘career fair’ offered by Italian eni/Snamprogetti to collect thousands of engineering resumes was to provide them a base upon which to bid for a fixed-price contract to IOL/Kearl.

#78 timbo on 05.25.09 at 11:48 pm

When company’s have to compete with other countries with very low wages without tarrifs they are doomed.
People blame unions and when they are gone will blame something else as more jobs are moved offshore to save money.

The more they move offshore, the more they take money out of the economy. When unemployment hits 20% and there are no jobs to go to because everything is made offshore we might wake up but its probably too late as it looks like we have been trained now to blame the worker instead of a system that is broken.

Barb… you are right and its too bad that people do not see more than 3 years ahead and not 20. I’ll bet Mexico will take 1 million jobs from us in the next while and we will be blamed because we make too much money.

NAFTA will wipe out the working class family.

#79 dd on 05.26.09 at 12:02 am

#71 Eduardo

… Did you see the Kearl Lake oil sands …

It is a start Eduardo. Really we need higher NGas prices to lift this province. But it is good news.

#80 WestCoastGirl on 05.26.09 at 12:52 am

WRT #27 Bill on 05.25.09 at 1:30 pm:

Ohmigod Bill you figured out our dirty little secret, us conniving women are only out to spend ‘your’ money…shhhh! don’t tell, don’t spill the beans…

Oh you poor soul from another time. Apologies, I’m really trying not to sound condescending…and failing miserably, I must admit.

Give your head a shake please. More and more women like myself are the primary breadwinners in the family…I’m fortunate to have a spouse that supports my hours/business travel, knows how to clean a toilet on his own accord and is a phenomenal father…and yes, he still pulls in a FT wage, just not at the same level as myself. No worries, since marriage is a partnership, yadda yadda yadda. At you’re right, at times I do have to reign in his credit card spending =p

Can you try an original theme in your post next time please? Tx.

#81 No Longer Looking on 05.26.09 at 3:37 am

“I suspect a lot of those first-time buyers know they’re taking a huge risk, but don’t care because it at least buys them 5 years of decent housing before they have to figure out a solution, as opposed to having to live in squalor today. I totally understand it.”

What the heck are you talking about? The young condo owners I know complain about increasing strata fees, having to pay for building defects, hearing neighbours through paper thin walls, no parking for guests, etc. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Look, East Van can be interesting but its hell to live in. Move a little out into the suburbs. You can even be near the Skytrain, and you will find adequate, affordable housing.

#82 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.26.09 at 9:51 am

#27 Bill

A hooker would be cheaper I think?

#83 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 10:37 am

#53 JO on 05.25.09 at 6:24 pm

My, my Jo, aren’t you the accusatory pig. I am none of what you have accused me of. I’ve never worked for a Union and I have had the same impression of them as you still carry, the impression that was imprinted on us from childhood by the PTB. Hey, here’s a thought, try thinking outside of what you are spoon-fed.

In fact I didn’t even KNOW anyone who worked for a Union since my father-in-law had retired by the time I met him. No, not until the past few years when my brother and brother-in-law did, and as it turned out they were both protected by their Unions when they were being abused by their employer. Other than that I don’t know any Union people, and I still have the lingering childhood Imprint of Unions all being thugs. But then I look at the big American Meat Packing plants in Alberta who could have as well be slaughtering the immigrants they bring in, because they have little regard for their employee slaves. Unions have a job to do, and if they look like thugs, I suppose that’s what people protecting the innocent from monsters look like.

I hope you’re all warm and fuzzy (and over) your your socialist attack frenzy, because I’m about as conservative a person as you’ll get. But I’m not Conservative because those guys are the biggest liars going, and they are not conservative at all. I happen to believe that we pool our money for services like libraries and police, and it has served us all well, hasn’t it, so if that makes me a communist, then you are a pig-headed fool.

By the way, due to illness I have no pension. Shame on me for getting sick, eh?

#84 Kestral on 05.26.09 at 10:56 am

It’s even worse than you all think, the $55 billion deficit is only what we overspend THIS YEAR. All the years deficit spending combined (aka the total debt) is over $450 billion:

So basically imagine if Canada was our household and we were all a family.

We are going to spend $55 billion more than we take in this year while we have $458 billion in credit card debt.

In short, we’re screwed.

#85 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 11:16 am

#39 Rhino on 05.25.09 at 4:15 pm

Hey Rhino, long time. You know I respect all your opinions, and I don’t disagree with you, in fact I agree with what you are saying…. but corporate bullies are things not people.

There’s two fronts to the war. We have to work now, and work hard, with the communication tools we have now, to smarten people up about Corporations. We’ve fallen for their propagandizing far too long. As long as there has been money, bartering or something to sell, we’ve had influence peddling and manipulation.

On the other hand we have to make sure Unions are doing legit work too. In this case, my father-in-law points out that there are literally thousands of pensioners out there, long retired, no one thinks of them. But everyone paints the picture of the more recent employees and goes after them as being undeserving of what they get. I have to admit, in years bygone I would listen to friends & family complain about these pudged-out employees who make more than all of us, and I’d half wonder if their wages and pensions were fair. But then, I’ve never been one to complain because some group figured out how to make a living wage either. After all, it’s not what you’re worth, it’s how much you can get. And frankly, I would never want one of those boring assembly line jobs. I always figured they were paid well in order to compensate for having such unfulfilling jobs. Hey, I look at the big picture, but maybe that’s just me.

Don’t get angry Rhino. I will have my CPP and OAS should I live that long. I hold no anger toward people who make a lot more than me, which everyone does it seems.

You are a healthy-minded, smart, talented person. I recall you have had to downsize life to a self-made consultency wage, or something like that. Forgive me if my memory is wrong. You know darn well you are happier than 99% of the people on earth, and better off emotionally and mentally then 95% of Canadians. You know that, don’t you? I could tell over the year or so, from your writing, that you are smart, concerned.. and reasonable. Most people aren’t.

You and I will do okay on less money than most everyone else. Don’t fall into the trap.

As for GM, I admit I don’t care about the details. They are getting the money because they can. The corporate pigs are going over the cliff and will drag all the innocents with them. They are holding the innocents as hostage shields to collect the dough. Don’t blame the innocents, even if they do look a little bloated themselves. We are saving some of the sheep in the pasture from the wolves, by helping the wolves. That’s just life in a corporate-dominated world. Please let me know how wrong I am as I admire and respect your opinion. I’m just saying I don’t want to chase any single bone that the media tosses out, there’s plenty of other directions to hunt around, objectively, to find truth and fairness, before I figure out who’s screwing who. Right now, the corporations have the upper hand. I’m just not into beating up on workers at this point. And picking on the swollen criminal balloon heads at GM is too easy. Let’s just see if the harpo/flibberty gang figures out how to stop GM from paying for more executive vacation homes with the cash :)

#86 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 11:45 am

#58 lgre on 05.25.09 at 7:32 pm

I did not say that he didn’t have any money.

To the contrary, my FIL saved his money and lived, and lives, frugally. He had people he had to help throughout his life too, for instance a borderline retarded son he has supported. He secured his future by working hard, for as long as he could. He is also a proud immigrant, having come to Canada in 1930. He even ran a secondary business, while working at GM, which ultimately went under and cost him money. He’s an amazing fellow and we are proud of him.

Now helpless, there are many costly inconveniences that follow disability. It is very costly to get the proper care. It may eat up every penny he’s saved.

Even buying yet another new bed (do you have any idea how much good, new beds cost these days?!) and fitting the house for his care, are all very heavy costs. So despite saving like a miser for 35 years and doing a great job of it, and having a presumably healthy cushion socked away, 25 years of retirement later, illness and helping others can melt that all away.

We are all just one illness away from that. Any one of us can end up in that same boat and I dare say, many of us will.

#87 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 11:51 am

#48 CalgaryRocks calls buying needed medical supplies: “excesses”


If you call clean bandages, new bed, nurse aide visits and assistive devices “excesses” then you’re even more shallow and screwball then your past posts have indicated.

#88 Marc on 05.26.09 at 12:01 pm

#82 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.26.09 at 9:51 am

I agree, in the long run a hooker is cheaper then a wife. Don’t even need to take her out for dinner, or care how her day was. At the end of the day, we all pay for sex, whether it is with a loved one, or with a cheap street rental. Perhaps I am just a little bitter?

#89 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 12:03 pm

#65 taxpayer like you on 05.25.09 at 9:49 pm

We should all be so protected, but influence is not in the favour of everyone. Personally, I just don’t find it productive to pick on those who found protection. Some people secure the protection they need, be it by themselves – and good for them for being so talented – or through Union. I wish there was no need for unions as I think they, like any human endeavor, have to be watched.

If the playing table is not level, if one end of the worker table is high, and one end of the worker table is low, why just beat up on the high end. Why bitch that the high end must be lowered.

Why don’t we try to raise the low end up?

You wanna know why we don’t? Corporations, greed, consumerism, vicious circle, lack of common sense, too many people falling for easy street fantasy and hype.

#90 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 12:12 pm

#61 David Bakody on 05.25.09 at 8:10 pm


I’d stopped observing Christmas long ago, but you just gave me a reason to observe it again. I’ll think of your dad.. and your dad’s sacrifice.

#91 health care joker on 05.26.09 at 12:47 pm

Reminds me of a version of the old joke …

A patient comes in to see the doctor and shows him his bare arm saying, “It hurts when I do this” as he flexes and extends his biceps. The doctor examines him for a few minutes, orders a series of tests, bills his insurance and a few days later calls him back into the office.

“Well, what do you prescribe?”

“Simply put, don’t do that.”

#92 Glenn on 05.26.09 at 2:03 pm

Well, going back over the numbers, we know for a fact that 70% of divorces are initiated by the female. And, divorce is at the very least a 50/50 proposition, if not more. Finally, it is also a know fact that the female tends to retain hard assets while the man is left holding the bag…or the bill.

So, this particular female is simply maneuvering itself into a superior position where it disposes of the husband after it has reached optimum productivity. The only thing missing is the 8-pound annuity (AKA a baby) to seal the deal and seal his doom.

And they ask me why I married a hot young foreign girl!

P.S. My wife brings in a full time income, cooks, cleans, and looks damn good doing it…and I have never cleaned a toilet since being married. Western females are simply outclassed and losing ground quickly. This is a situation that will hit critical mass within the next few years. Reap what ya sow, feminists.

#93 CalgaryRocks on 05.26.09 at 2:15 pm

#87 Barbie, your insults just show that you are running out of arguments of why people with no pension should pay for those that have them.

#94 Cordoroy Cowboy on 05.26.09 at 4:30 pm

Wow! An amazing amount of the comments to this blog have evolved into a sound off board for men who dislike women, or at very least have a few unresolved issues with their past spouses. Suck it up and get some counseling already!

Who knows where the bulk of this couples wealth came from—did any of you misogynists ever think that maybe she has the larger income or contributed more than the fellow? Maybe she calls the shots because fair or not, she is the one bringing in the big bucks? Maybe she had a large inheritance that set them up in the first place. There are a lot of variables not mentioned. #92 Did you ever consider that maybe he has not cleaned a toliet since he has been married to her or maybe she has not cleaned a toliet since marrying him? I’d love to know how your young hot foreign girl REALLY feels about you. I imagine that you have a hard time hiding your sour outlook on women, or maybe you have shared it with her (probably over and over). Better watch her, she may get tired of being chattel and the problem is, with an outlook and attitute like yours, you will always be paranoidly watching that she isn’t doing any manoeuvering on her own. Be very careful #92 because the bitches can’t be trusted. non?

#95 Barb the proof reader on 05.26.09 at 9:50 pm

#93 CalgaryRocks on 05.26.09 at 2:15 pm

So you’d also prefer not to pay for police because you can take care of your own problems with your own gun? And remove support for the library from your taxes because you don’t use it? And you don’t like education so let the government know you want those taxes removed from your share. And I presume you don’t use Women’s or Immigrant services, so ditto, you don’t want to pay for that either, right?
I guess if must drive you nuts that farmers and many others get assistance!
O, the Humanity!
You must be one angry, and tapped out, soul :)

#96 rory on 05.26.09 at 10:10 pm

#89 Barb the proof reader you said:

“Why don’t we try to raise the low end up?”

Was this not the concept of unions in the first place except they overdid it like everyone does and now they and the membership need to step back and gain a little perspective.

The other little thing is 5 billion people who want to be like us that will do it for less, a lot less…so kinda tough to raise the bar (wages, benefits) when you have this little nagging problem.

Our world is now much larger …like it or not…IMO.

#97 rory on 05.26.09 at 10:20 pm

#95 Barb the proof reader

Barb, you have officially flipped …the correlation to having essential services or librarians around and having taxpayers subsidize their pensions over and above what is happening in the marketplace are two different and distinct issues …unions were about closing the gap between the working stiff and owners …defined benefit pensions are now about creating two different classes of workers…and that is not right …time to chill.

#98 Tony on 05.26.09 at 11:22 pm

Garth should’ve made the point that dollar for dollar buying a house to rent will never be a good idea in British Columbia. The rent is far too low compared to the prices. Alberta would be the only place to buy right now if you were to rent out a house. This isn’t New York City or Queens or Harlem this is British Columbia.

#99 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.27.09 at 11:33 am

#95 Barb the proof reader

They made a movie about such people called ‘Legend’. It portrayed the last man on earth. Some believe they are. others wish they were. ;-)

#100 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.27.09 at 11:35 am

Personally, I am waiting for the LCBO to go on strike and then we will see rioting in the streets, er, at least the parking lots!