RE porn

condo-king1

Toronto Star photo - 'Experts see silver lining'

Real estate porn used to be resticted to the obvious places. HGTV, a little A&E, some PBS, latenight infomercials, 30-second spots for Concrete Equities and advertorial crap like “Hot Properties” or “Big City Broker.”

That was in the old days, last year.

Now, sadly, the stuff had polluted the MSM, like here. The reason is simple: most media companies are in serious trouble since developers, condo builders, new home marketers and realtors pulled the plug on acres of advertising lineage. Gone are the days of fat weekend sections teeming with lifestyle ads for unbuilt towers, and pictures of sylvan woodland developments with particleboard palaces on 40-foot lots, a tortuous 90 minutes from the city.

As a result, there have been layoffs at Global CanWest, CTV, CBC, the Toronto Star, Sun Media and regional dailies across the country. In addition, newspapers are in an accelerated death spiral, as evidenced by their own amputations. Weeks ago the National Post lopped off its Monday edition, and this weekend the Victoria Times Colonist did the same. Others are bound to follow, since even a rate-induced housing hiccup will not bring back the double-page spreads of yore.

The economics of this, I understand. The whoring-out of the news columns, I do not.

When newspapers sell their news, there is nothing left.

– 30 –

86 comments ↓

#1 Ted on 05.10.09 at 11:06 pm

Absolutely agree with you on this post Garth! Here in Vancouver we have to endure “public service announcements from Corus Entertainment” on the radio telling us about the “window of opportunity for real estate being wide open”. I’m amazed this is legal. The effort expended to keep this thing going is astounding.

#2 Dave Nile on 05.10.09 at 11:10 pm

HAHAHAHA…….oh…oh…..ooh….oh….wow….HEHE…oh…ok…..ahem……my sides hurt…. :)

http://www.castanet.net/news/Business/46724/Real-estate-blow-out-sale

#3 Nostradamus jr. on 05.10.09 at 11:18 pm

….I predicted the death of mass media and the rise to fame and fortune of a Canadian Journalist/Federal Minister more than 500 years ago.

His name would be Garth Harper.

…Hey, give me some credit for being half right, 500 years is a long time.

#4 Val Mel on 05.10.09 at 11:31 pm

Great Post Garth.

The Pumpers have infiltrated a bastion of what use to be legitimacy.

Their demise is deserved….however desperation may lead to further denigration….

#5 Shawn on 05.10.09 at 11:41 pm

Garth mentions “Particle Board Palaces on 40-foot lots”

That brings up another reason not to buy the new homes of today.

Lately I see more and more stories of new housing burning to the ground. And they seem to do so extremely fast. All that glue in the particle boards seems to undue the fire break that wall-board used to provide. Something is very wrong.

And with 10 feet between houses, you may only be as safe as your neighbour happens to be.

If you have a house built, spring for exterior drywall. Apparently it exists and is supposed to be used under vinyl but rarely is. If I had a house built I think I would insidist on real floor joists not engineered particle board. I might even insist on boards being used and a total elimination of particle board. Also there is a coating product called no-burn.

One of the reasons I never looked at having a house built is I don’t trust the specifications but I don’t have the knowledge to pick the specifications myself.

Avoid newer wood structure condos too. We have had massive fires in those things here in Edmonton. I don’t recall any deaths but these things have burned like they were soaked in gasoline.

A few thoughts. Buy a large fire extinguisher for your garage. And buy several small ones for the kitchen and basement.

Get serious about changing the smoke dector batteries.

For the yard buy a cordless electric mower and avoid with great prejudice having any gasoline in jerry cans in your garage. I bought a cordless mower 15 years ago. The battery is now weak but it has been a great mower. I have not owned a jerry can in the 20 years I have been in Edmonton.

#6 Keith in Calgary on 05.10.09 at 11:46 pm

The wheels fell of the ethics wagon at the “Canwest Global Real Estate Company” a long, long, time ago……..gonna have a big party when they go BK and lay the property pimps off.

#7 EJ on 05.10.09 at 11:48 pm

I’ve never understood how the MSM gets away with reporting high housing prices as “good news”.

Strife in the Middle East, our soldiers dying in a pointless war, economy falling apart, people losing jobs en masse, swine flu, crooked wall street companies with their hands directly in the taxpayers pockets, civil unrest..

“But, hey! There’s some good news for you! A lifetime of debt just isn’t enough, and we think you’ll soon be paying even more for a place to live!”

Yeah, fantastic news… Why don’t you go preach about the wonders of high gas prices, rising food prices, and escalating taxes? Those are a silver lining as well, right?

#8 Da HK Kid on 05.11.09 at 12:33 am

At least a traditional junkie is only tempted by one source for the fix! The Pusher!

RE junkies are forced to battle a multitude of Pushers;
1-RE Agents
2-RE Brokers
3-Banks with Cheap Credit Ninja Loans
4-RE Developers
5-RE Analysts
6-Media

and lets not forget our so-called leaders, the PONZI Government who provides both the balloon, the hot air, and the worst form of manipulation on the planet!

and, sorry to say, our family and friends who own RE are also the strong enablers. It is unfortunately human nature for your friends and family to support you when you are more successful than them!

As for RE ownership the same applies, and in today’s market, Misery definitely loves company!

Be strong my brothers and sisters and resist the urge of the RE Scam.

A

#9 Leonhart on 05.11.09 at 12:37 am

Ya… Those RE Porn addicts are all in for a big nice Bust!

#10 nonplused on 05.11.09 at 12:42 am

Hi five Garth. But it’s not new. The MSM sold out long ago, for more trivial maters such as war and investing.

That’s why anyone under 40 and many over get all their news from the web and the Daily Show.

The MSM deserve to die. They have been lying to us for years for money, and now everyone knows. I won’t pay to be lied to. I tried that once. She divorced me when I said stop. This time society is just front running the liers.

Bye bye MSM, and good ridance.

#11 taxpayer like you on 05.11.09 at 12:53 am

Garth – I didnt even know the victoria times-communist had a Monday paper. It didnt when I was a kid.

Come to think of it, I dont remember global either…….

Have the 60s returned??

#12 HJD on 05.11.09 at 12:59 am

We read the Victoria Times Colonist. But it’s just a habit (goes well with that other bad habit, drinking morning coffee). And cancellation of the Monday edition doesn’t mean very much since most of the newspaper’s content is old news (oxymoron) that we generally become aware of a day earlier on webpages (CBC, CNN, BBC, Huffington Post, etc). Guess it’s time to cancel our subscription and let the dying thing slip quietly out of our lives.

#13 . . . fried eggs and spam . . . on 05.11.09 at 1:03 am

When the second wave of foreclosures, along with commercial RE, malls etc. begin falling like dominoes, it will be a modern-day blitzkreig of info. coming our way, with or without the bulk of the m$m.

It’s easy to say “I told you so”, but when media giants started telling sheeple the world over lies about Iraq’s WMD, how ObL was an evil person and the mastermind of all this spoonfed garbage, clever people — such as bloggers on the ‘net, where truth resides as no one controls it — left the m$m behind to fend for itself, and it can’t.

With builders taking a hiatus, it means their employees are now working at McJobs all over — hence the 36,000 increase in the workforce — the suppliers who used to supply all the building stuff are not supplying any more, so their employees are also working McJobs.

The Cascade Effect — once the true numbers start showing up, then there will be a much clearer picture of how quickly and widespread this worldwide downturn is. In the US, the number (supposedly), including those who have given up looking for work is close to 25 mln.

The RE whores should head on over to keep company with the Ladies and Men of the Night — the Red Light District in Amsterdam, the brothels and whorehouses in Berlin and Paris.

Guess they’re doing fairly well!
——
Isn’t this where The Big Old Decrepit Three are setting up shop? — http://tinyurl.com/qmnohg
——
Seems like Oz is preparing for the demise of the US. — http://tinyurl.com/opl6lv

“Australia isn’t forecasting the end of U.S. dominance soon; the report predicts that will continue through 2030.”
——
For Timmie’s and all coffee lovers, not good news. From FT.com:

“Shortages stir coffee and sugar prices

By Javier Blas and Jenny Wiggins in London
Published: May 10 2009 22:30 | Last updated: May 10 2009 22:30

“Caffeine addicts face higher prices for their daily fix as the wholesale cost of both coffee and sugar rise sharply because of poor crops and robust demand.

“We are in a dangerous situation,” Andrea Illy, chief executive of Italy’s leading coffee ­company, told the Financial Times, warning that prices could ‘explode’ due to supply shortages.”

#14 June on 05.11.09 at 1:17 am

Great job Mr Turner. I really believe that the Real estate industry has created their own reality and they are living by it. As for the MSM, and they wonder why no one is buying their products: They got nothing I can used in my everyday’s life. It is that simple. How can anybody with a right mind forecast house price increase when, unemployment is rising and, even those left with jobs, are taking pay cut or seeing their pay frozen?

#15 Davinci on 05.11.09 at 1:36 am

This message was sent to Don Harrold who asked
” I want your honest answer. In the year 2009, what should we all know to protect our freedom now, and, for the future?”
————————————
I know you do not agree and that’s fine, perhaps in time you may see that money is a tangible item that has value already and is not decreed by government to have value. Gold and silver are the protectors of wealth and freedom, as the people who get free paper money are masters of the slaves that work for the paper money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LajuETlDmA

There will always be greedy men, there will always be people trying to enslave another person or groups of people. But the simple answer to insure and protect freedom is with wealth. Once taken away by enough people, those that have lost their wealth will do anything to get it back. My friend that is a recipe for a total loss of freedoms.

I know in your mind gold is just another asset class to get more dollars. However it’s more than that, it’s protector of wealth and the greatest protector of freedom. The founding fathers of America knew this, and made gold and silver money. They also knew you would be fooled into accepting script by the bankers working night and day to get the government to allow it. So the second amendment was born.

Even Hitler, the greatest governmental evil knew that gold must be stripped from the people and their guns confiscated so he could have total control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH4-nW-01-E

Finally how can Americans protect “Freedom” that was lost long ago. Don’t think so? Dude, When I visit America, I can’t drive state to state without running into a check point asking me for my paper and questioning where I am going. Just so you know Nazi Germany and Russia did that before and after they became totalitarian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtsvqqq9dc4

This is not a prediction of the future and “Past performance is not an indication of future results” because anything can happen. However you would not bet that gold’s value is going down in the long run (5 years) would you? Then why would you bet our direction will change?

Then what are you doing to prepare for it or going to do to prevent it? That is why I do my videos to get a few people to hold the one of the freedom fighting weapons of gold and silver. Because like one of your guest said we will be in a world of hurt if you ever need gold to bribe a boarder guard, but forgetting you will be dam glad you had it.

#16 why_bother on 05.11.09 at 1:58 am

What you and I believe is one thing, what media reports another and what’s happening out there is the reality. And out there, sadly, sellers are selling, buyers are buying and the prices are creeping up again.

#17 Steve on 05.11.09 at 2:15 am

Here’s the trend towards larger and larger “homes” since the 50’s from womansday
http://www.womansday.com/wd2/Content/Family-Lifestyle/Evolution-of-the-Household

#18 Future Expatriate on 05.11.09 at 2:41 am

Which is why ALL newspapers will soon be put out of their misery, and deservedly so.

You might have to dig on the internet, but you can find the truth sooner or later. Not to mention honest and heartfelt commentary. Not so in newspapers, which is why they are already terminal.

Pull the plug already. There’s more than enough propaganda in talk radio and on network TV “News” to go around.

#19 canuck99 on 05.11.09 at 3:39 am

Newsmen succumbed long ago to the lure of advertising lucre at the expense and interests of their readers. Their papers now stand as empty vessels, dispensing vacuous content to a dwindling audience, and deservedly so. At long last the general public has clued in.

John Swinton, former Chief of Staff of the New York Times and called by his peers “the dean of his profession”, summed it up best in a toast to the New York Press Club in 1953, as quoted by T. St. John Gaffney in Breaking The Silence (page 4):

“There is no such thing as an independent press in America, if we except that of little country towns. You know this and I know it. Not a man among you dares to utter his honest opinion. Were you to utter it, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid one hundred and fifty dollars a week so that I may keep my honest opinion out of the newspaper for which I write. You too are paid similar salaries for similar services. Were I to permit that a single edition of my newspaper contained an honest opinion, my occupation – like Othello’s – would be gone in less than twenty-four hours. The man who would be so foolish as to write his honest opinion would soon be on the streets in search of another job. It is the duty of a New York journalist to lie, to distort, to revile, to toady at the feet of Mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread, or what amounts to the same thing, his salary. We are the tools and the vassals of the rich behind the scenes. We are marionettes. These men pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our capacities are all the property of these men – we are intellectual prostitutes.”

#20 Mike B on 05.11.09 at 3:47 am

OK first Brad J is a very biased salesperson so his opinion is meaningless. The spring market in Toronto has been robust as usual with very few selling above asking and most below… Some buyers shock their own agents and throw away money on real junkers. In some very good areas stuff is taking minimum 30 days to sell but as we approach the long weekend this spring market should wane as it always does and slower sales will become the norm. Most saavy and respectable realtors don’t feel this is any sellers market just yet. Please check the charts on guava.ca to see how this spring market is no different than others.

#21 David Bakody on 05.11.09 at 6:04 am

What a difference a day makes eh Garth, Ottawa’s news of thousands of jobs created and positive (True?) news the great recession will be over in less than 9 months just in time for Christmas …… it now appears all this was just a bad dream and the good times will flow once again ….. sure sounds like Harper and Flaherty were right eh ( As strong as the Canadian Shield) ….. they now have put the skids to that dirty word “Stimulus” as post in this morning G&M

“Economy boosting projects stall waiting for funds
Negotiations hobble Ottawa’s promise to roll out cash quickly ”

The question is do the few million Canadians who have lost bundles in the stock market, borrowed from future savings, lost their home and toys, lost their job, mortgaged their future, moved in with family, have no skills for future employment, be lied and cheated out any chance to make a early move in the fall of 2008, and believed in Accountability, Transparency and a 2% cut in GST would give them wealth still believe these wolves in sheep clothing? Time will only tell, this we do know …… cars sales even imports are down as Toyota is projecting even greater looses next year, and although Canadian sales are good 32 million people can not save the North America ….. let alone the world. By the way the bill for Afghanistan could be larger than any Stimulus plan here. Think? about long term health care for 10’s of thousands and their families plus worn out equipment replacement costs. Where is MSM on this ….. perhaps lining up for Harper doe money in lue of kind printed words no doubt. Oh the price for selling one’s soul to devil/wolf in sheep’s clothing.

#22 buy gold on 05.11.09 at 6:26 am

The trend is your friend … gettingtechnical.com

look at this sit and see the chart on the housing market

#23 George Popovic on 05.11.09 at 6:36 am

This weekend the Star ran a story about people losing their homes in Toronto. The piece tried to explain the Power of Sale and did it very poorly. It accurately described that upon default, the lender forces a sale of the property. It then describes how after the sale, and the repayment of the loan, the rest is given back to the home owner. It conveniently fails to mention that if the property sells for less than the amount owed, the lender sues the borrower for the difference including legal and other costs which can haunt him for years to come. This debt cannot be shaken even with bankruptcy, you are stuck.

There should have been bold lettering with a warning to potential buyers as to exactly what the risks are before signing that offer.

#24 Herb on 05.11.09 at 7:03 am

What this country needs is a good “Truth in Advertising” law. The industry – marketers and media – policing itself is not working.

Surprised?

#25 curious to know on 05.11.09 at 8:09 am

to george popovic:

You seem to understand the process of the Power of Sale? How did you learn that?

#26 molson cdn on 05.11.09 at 8:46 am

garth

you crack me up.
you keep promoting renting, stocks and bonds, paper assests, etc..
but you never mention how poorly most people have done in their assest portfolio, or why is it that no one has confidence associated with these financial gurus (who drives a 10 yr old honda and wears wallmart attire) .
garth the numbers dont lie. i personally know 4 individuals who have done extremely well with real estate (rental) investing in toronto. at first it was painfull, but now, they have some breathing room and are making more $$$$ than i will.
garth, real estate is a great investment vechicle , you just haven’t learned the game.
cheers

Have fun fixing those toilets. — Garth

#27 Jim Tokerman on 05.11.09 at 8:58 am

New home prices drop in March Canada

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/11052009/2/biz-finance-new-home-prices-drop-march.html

#28 TS on 05.11.09 at 9:26 am

The MSM sold out years ago. Years ago when I was in the newspaper business every time there was an election the publishers would call the editors in and dictate the huge amount of positive coverage that the ‘right wing’ party was to get. Editors had no choice but to spew out what they were told.

Investigative journalism in this country is basically dead, save for the odd newspaper and perhaps W5. It is a very sad state of affairs.

#29 D from London, ON on 05.11.09 at 9:29 am

Just stop buying newspapers and magazines. As mentioned by #12 HJD, it has simply become a bad habit that continues on under it’s own inertia.

The news in print is at best stale and no less “independent” than the wall of propaganda thrown up by competing factions online. At least the online stuff is fiscally free (i.e. no marginal increase above the cost of a connection), and depending how much time you want to spend in a day (your opportunity costs) you can sift through the various propaganda pieces and come to your own conclusions.

Print media is like a “Prix Fixe” meal – you swallow the line that a particular organ is dishing, or you reject it, but there are no alternatives and no substitions (unless you order other Prix Fixe complete meals, at additional cost). Online everything is a la carte.

Let’s all stop buying print media out of habit alone.

Sorry for the job loss for all who work in the industry, but you can’t run a whorehouse forever – sooner or later the cops are gonna shut you down. Unfortunately there are no real media cops, so we’ll have to deal with this on the demand-side.

#30 Nostradamus jr. on 05.11.09 at 9:44 am

>>Chinese Deflation Picks Up Steam; Recovery a Mirage<<

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

…. = Gold & Copper will eventually “collapse”…will need to feed the 1.5 Billion Chinese and 1 Billion in India.

…. = Ontario may eventually not be safe,
even our own Garth “Robespierre” Turner’s bunker.

…You keep hearing everything first right here…

#31 Darwin O'Connor on 05.11.09 at 9:51 am

Most HGTV Canadian shows wheren’t that bad. Their most popular ones included:

Buy Me: about how difficult to can be to sell a house

Holmes on Homes: about how big a disaster trying to renovate can be

The Big Flip: In the first season they didn’t really make any money

#32 Greg in Victoria on 05.11.09 at 10:19 am

hey garth… I like your blog alot. Its ful of good advice and common sense that helps me remain confident in my real estate investment choices (renting, here in Victoria of course)

One thing… I try to read your website during my lunch hour break online but sometimes our corporate internet filter threatens to act up when some of the more colourful language comes up prominently as in the title of your post today. I’d really hate to not be able to read your post online… keep up what you do here by bringing facts to the table. It is really appreciated.

#33 lgre on 05.11.09 at 10:31 am

“but you never mention how poorly most people have done in their assest portfolio”

the people who done poorly were the ones who bought speculative stocks and the ones that sold when the market was down. If you did neither, you will be ok. There are a lot of people who done well just in the last 2 months in the market.

RE investing can be ok, but not at these prices.I’m sorry but I wouldnt deal with tenant issues and maintanance issues for a 6% CAP rate. Only amateurs buy property now for investment.

#34 eddy on 05.11.09 at 10:36 am

In the Peoples Republic of Toronto owners re finance and stay put= shortage of supply. very strong demand from 1st timers, almost 80k new immigrants to TO each yr, still a financial center. chump change for down payments, 2.75% rates, even 2 luxury taxes can’t stop the demand, average prices still way less than Vancouver. of course prices Can drop, but i doubt it

#35 Nostradamus jr. on 05.11.09 at 10:41 am

>>>3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995 Estimate<<<

“””Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?”””

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37687495

#36 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.11.09 at 10:41 am

The economics of this, I understand. The whoring-out of the news columns, I do not.

Where have you been? The so-called MSM whored out decades ago. That is what brought about the likes of CNN and Fox News with their plethora of little minded xenophobic bigots and war mongers, not to mention that Fat Assed Moron of the airwaves Rush (Yeah a fitting name for a druggy) Limburger. Now Dick Cheney is trying to get back in action.

Cheney aligns GOP future with Limbaugh over Powell

#37 Suspence on 05.11.09 at 10:47 am

Brad Lamb is not only a realtor, but he is also a developer. Why don’t journalists ask him how many development sites he has in various forms of troubled financing? Asking BJL to comment on real estate under the guise he is an unbiased professional is like asking Tom Vu to give you business advice. Basically, he’s a wolf in lamb’s clothing. Shame on the TO Star & BJL.

#38 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.11.09 at 10:48 am

A little insider info on the mentality of some newspaper publishers. One small town weekly got its real start when the publisher/editor would write half true scathing articles about locales, especially political types. People would buy the paper just to find out what had been written, and if it was about THEM!

That is not news reporting that is purely whoring the presses. Seems to be a standard approach used by most papers and journalists. Forget actual facts instead use innuendo and make things up, leaving out the important facts that make the difference.

Then they wonder why people reject their crap and they are going out of business?

#39 My_View on 05.11.09 at 10:55 am

I will try to make this short:

The demise of these media companies have been in the making for quite some time. The internet and the barrage of news outlets 24/7 are everywhere. And for the automakers, well ever since Korea starting selling there 4 wheel butane cars, I knew this would happen. Boom or bust the inevitable was going to happen. It’s usually when there is a bust the wheels fall off these companies.

Now as far as real estate goes: Canada is sound (BC & AB are there own beasts), maybe there will be a correction to 2005 price levels, but I think they will hold at those levels. Yes then Canada introduced the wacky 0 down/40 yrs, but lets not forget that was not the catalyst of high prices. Look around, since the late nineties developers have not been building single detached homes. Condos and towns are the norm, and what a shoe box you get. Price levels will hold, because the bulk of transactions happen prior to the Canadian Prime mortgagees.

I respect Garth for this outlet, informative and quite entertaining. However I very much doubt Garth has ever thought of selling his land and going into a rental with family, dog & Harley in tow, fat chance. Plus I’m sure Garth is not as negative around fellow colleagues as he is here. So another 10% correction in 1 or 2 years, but my rent will equal to that correction if not more, so what the hell, I’d rather buy. For everyone here who is renting and is waiting for the sky to fall, good luck. If you rent you better be saving and I mean aggressively, stop whining about home prices, as if a $400k home will drop to $200K (pre 1989 levels). Wait, I know it happen in the states (different parameters, to long to go into detail) so it will happen here, nope Canadians love their homes, my parents, Garth parents and I’m sure he even talks to his children the benefits of home ownership. Of course have your finances in check and plan/prepare for the bad days/months/year. Plus what’s so glamorous about renting…

#40 Nostradamus jr. on 05.11.09 at 10:57 am

>>Keepin’ It Real Estate: Subprime Lending Is Back With a Vengeance<<

“””The federal government, as part of the recently passed economic stimulus package, will refund first-time homebuyers up to $8,000 if they meet certain eligibility requirements. The program is frequently cited as one of the myriad reasons a bottom in the housing market is imminent.”””

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/Credit-fre-fnm-PHM-len-subprime/index/a/22591/p/1

#41 Dave on 05.11.09 at 11:19 am

garth the numbers dont lie. i personally know 4 individuals who have done extremely well with real estate (rental) investing in toronto. at first it was painfull, but now, they have some breathing room and are making more $$$$ than i will.
——————————————————–

I have people very close to me that have done the same. I had a say in those times when they purchased. Some of the properties they purchased were between 1992-1995 (when the housing market crashed) they did very well because of that. Had they purchased in 1989 (at the peak of the bubble) they’d be bankrupt right now.

How difficult is it to understand that timing is important? We can’t run around talking about tech stocks and how they’re a great investment today, although about a decade ago you would have made killings in the whole .com thing. I try to understand people’s thought process. Do people assume that because something made gains in the past, that area is the best place for investment all the time?

right now, we’re at a point that real estate prices are unaffordable. Those that are going all in on real estate RIGHT NOW (purchasing multiple properties in the past 3 years) will probably end up miserable or bankrupt. If you’re on the sidelines and understand TIMING, you’ll be the winner in real estate and in many other markets.

good luck everyone.

#42 ca on 05.11.09 at 11:43 am

you should appreciate this

http://www.businessinsider.com/local-governments-are-encouraging-people-to-buy-homes-with-no-money-down-2009-5

#43 cash is king on 05.11.09 at 12:01 pm

# 26 – molson cdn – real estate is a great investment vechicle

As you stated, its a great investment vehicle….Like all vehicles, these “investments” require constant attention. Chasing after your rent money, making repairs, renovating a trashed living room, resoding the lawn because of the tenants dog, replacing the roof and windows. And do not forget the mid-january furnace breakdown or mid-July A/C burnout.

Just when you finally begin to see a return on your investment the government slaps a new rent control reform on your property.

Upkeep + mortgage + property taxes + long term maintenance + a bad tenant or two – rent collected – property appreciation = break even at best.

This is a game best left unplayed.

Saving Cash for the Crash

#44 rory on 05.11.09 at 12:31 pm

#35 Nostradamus jr. you said:
“3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montana’s Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995 Estimate.
Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?”

Think about the the USofA using this oil as a strategic oil reserve …use cheap oil from everywhere else first…then when the crap really hits the fan …presto oil you can recover cheap and protect…you heard it hear first. ;)

The article talks about 500 billion barrels not 4 billion.

P.S. – if true this is bad news for the oil sands…IMO

#45 rory on 05.11.09 at 12:39 pm

Yeah I know ‘hear’ should be ‘here’ but good play on words (unintentional as it was)….jeez.

#46 sam crompton on 05.11.09 at 12:44 pm

“Remember that the point of investing isn’t to aim for the highest possible returns. It’s to make sure you don’t die poor.”

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/09/magazines/moneymag/stock-strategies.moneymag/index.htm?postversion=2009050914

#47 jess on 05.11.09 at 1:01 pm

stimulus butterfly, mr rudd how will he control rate hikes

May 11 (Bloomberg) — Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s bid to ensure his housing market avoids the global property slump may push a generation of buyers into a debt crisis.

Grants of as much as A$21,000 ($16,142) to first-time buyers and the lowest interest rates in 49 years have emboldened more than 40,000 young Australians to take out home loans since October, stoking demand for properties that cost less than A$500,000.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601206&sid=azjnQbCD2dm8&refer=realestate

#48 tjmikey on 05.11.09 at 1:18 pm

On #2 link,

Wolf in sheeps clothing, same group as the Roots backed oasis on the island.

Simply, “Caveat Emptor”

#49 David on 05.11.09 at 1:30 pm

Funny how all the “experts” all have the same agenda and evidence. An illiquid and overpriced market was able to find the bottom in the space of a month. Amazing actually, and now it is a seller’s market no less, and there will be a chronic shortage of new condos in 2011, making for an even tighter seller’s market down the road. The man is talking pure rubbish.
People can look at the US evidence and see that the market in housing is nowhere near the bottom and that is already two years into the collapse. The next wave of defaults is about to hit the prime market over the next three years driving prices even lower.
The troubles in Canadian housing are still in the incipient stages and just as likely to as brutal, if not more brutal than what has happened south of the border. Interest rates are artificially low, down payment requirements are negligible, family incomes are stagnant and unemployment is growing. Current prices on housing long ago decoupled from fundamental values relative to rents.The bottom was 5 months ago and don’t forget that.

#50 Bobby on 05.11.09 at 1:48 pm

Obviously, #39 My View is a realtor or someone that has overextended themselves in property.
Yes, property prices are falling. It is only the lower end that is selling well. And there are lots of properties sitting on the market.
Just wait until July after the main selling time is behind. There will be some great deals.
Oh yes, don’t ask a realtor for advice. Some believe prices are still rising.

#51 Chris in England IG-AZ at the moment on 05.11.09 at 2:01 pm

Property Quiz:

… while we wait.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8041976.stm

#52 JoeCalgary on 05.11.09 at 2:06 pm

#5 Shawn, all good advice; please keep it coming.

In the same vein, beware manufacturing location of all wood laminate flooring. Made in Canada gives off toxins for a few hours; made overseas, the toxins continue to emit for as long as a year!

#53 Sun Yat-sen suit on 05.11.09 at 2:18 pm

Fair shake about MSM but wasn’t it The Washington Post that exposed a president and brought him tumbling down?

The CBC won’t let go of Mulroney and the 300.

Watergate was 30 years ago, dude. That’s when reporters still knew their craft. — Garth

#54 jess on 05.11.09 at 2:36 pm

the real obesity problem -greed feeders

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/madoff/
THE MADOFF AFFAIR
Tuesday, May 12, 2009, at 9 P.M. ET on PBS

#55 Nostradamus jr. on 05.11.09 at 2:47 pm

Milton is more expensive than North Van!

…Most recent Detached MLS sales, North Vancouver
(West Vancouver’s poorer sister)

MLS # V763877 A..$1,090,000/S..$1,088,000

MLS # V755738 A..$1,000,000/S..$960,000

MLS # V763581 A..$779,900/S..$779,900

MLS # V720190 A..$1,399,000/S..$1,315,000

MLS # V757747 A..$998,000/S..$942,000

MLS # V755197 A..$1,520,000/S..$1,420,000

#56 Grumpydawgs on 05.11.09 at 2:47 pm

Prices fall again for the sixth straight month. Weren’t the realwhores trying to convince us that this wasn’t so just a few days ago. Everytime the facts come the real whores dive back under the rocks and wait for an all clear from the CREA ,RE Board, and the tout-tard saleman.

“VANCOUVER — The average selling price of new homes in Metro Vancouver is down 7.8% from a year ago due to competition and slow market conditions.

Meanwhile, across Canada, prices for new homes fell for the sixth straight month in March, led by declines in Western Canada, as the country’s real estate market continued to weaken amid the economic downturn.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/Bu…..story.html

I had a meeting with a guy who has had his house in Richmond for sale for several months. He says the only offers that come in are $100,000 below what he paid three or four years ago. I told him he may have to wait a few years, not wanting to give him the full blast about how real estate cycles in BC are long lethargic spirit killers. The downturn in the 1990’s as al of you remeber went sideways for almost eleven years, as the below 400000 houses sold sporadically while the 400000 plus homes lost 25% and rarely sold at all. The luxury market was the worst hit.

If prices continue to fall, then why would your REALTARD BE TELLING YOU DIFFERANT?

And for the optimist in the last string who thinks everyone can manage thier credit cards wisely re: more people are making ends meet at the grocery store with credit- I say no, it is not the smart thing to do to use credit for daily purchases-the fact is that a majority of credit cars users are losers in the end

lookey here at the stats:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/business/11credit.html

#57 gold bugger on 05.11.09 at 3:14 pm

I just shake my head when I read things such as: “I’m amazed this is legal” or how does “the MSM gets away with reporting high housing prices as ‘good news’,” “What this country needs is a good ‘Truth in Advertising’ law,” and “Unfortunately there are no real media cops.”

All you closeted authoritarians need to check out two important concepts: free speech and caveat emptor.

Freakin Marxists.

#58 June on 05.11.09 at 4:09 pm

Great posts everyone and I will have to give a credit to Garth for starting such a great debate. For the record, my wife and I, are renting a 750sqf apt in Toronto(Yonge/bloor) for right about 18% of our take home paye. I kidd you not, 18% (Everything included, hydro, ac, ect..). I walk 20 minutes to work and my wife take 20 minutes subway. You know, we like to complain about how MSM has sold it soul as an excuse why we fell into salesmen’s traps but, I’m not sure this true. You don’t need MSM to know that something wrong is happening on main street. For instance, the other day, someone at work, asked me where I live and after hearing the location, he went on to tell me that I must have paid a lot to live in such area. He assumed, as everybody at work does, that we own the place. I informed him that my wife and I, believe that we don’t see any need to sink 4 or 450K into a place for two people. Besides, we could get a better return investing it somewhere else. In fact, that return, can pay that rent and cover other expenses. To cut what turned into a very long debate short, my co-workers jumped into the conversation with a lot of counter arguments(all of them, straight from the 10 myths about real estate-see greater fool by G.T-). I then asked ” are you guys into real estate business?” Because, they took the fact that I was against buying into the real estate at any cost very personal. I have learned a lesson around here: Don’t talk down real estate here because every torontonian has a vested interest. Just take a look on the number of comments on any article that talks about Real estate in any paper.
Another point I want to mention is that I believe the government needs to do something to regulate the real estate industry because they are doing more harm than good at the moment. If you look carefully, especially in Toronto, a lot of this young couple(Mr Turner talked about them) are living below the poverty line. They are living a life that is unhealthy: No vacation, can’t invite friends over. Thus not letting themselves invited because they can not return the social act. I know you will jump on this point because we all agree that people should take care of themselves. No rainy funds, forget about RRSP savings ect…. In the end this situation is costing the city. For example, I noticed that the city gets quieter every year. Cultural institutions are vanishing, ect.. I can go on and on, but you all see where I’m going with this. I just think that it is unfair to let these poorly informed souls put all their investments in on basket(house). After all who will support other institutions in community? Do we really want toronto(in my case) streets filled with Dollars stores and McRestaurants? This is CANADA for God’s sake. A G8 member.

#59 U.S.$fromA$iaComming home= inflation on 05.11.09 at 4:24 pm

Got to love it, I inspected a 70 year old house with notched foundation and tones of small work done in various stages of it’s life. Lots of potential problems.

Whos got $500 for something like this? Only in Vancouver. :P

#60 Live Within Your Means on 05.11.09 at 4:26 pm

#28 TS on 05.11.09 at 9:26 am
The MSM sold out years ago. Years ago when I was in the newspaper business every time there was an election the publishers would call the editors in and dictate the huge amount of positive coverage that the ‘right wing’ party was to get. Editors had no choice but to spew out what they were told.

Investigative journalism in this country is basically dead, save for the odd newspaper and perhaps W5. It is a very sad state of affairs.

Just read Into the Buzzsaw, edited by Kristina Borgjesson to see how the media is controlled.

I stopped delivery of our local paper a few years ago. Seems I read the other day the big scam artist, Rupert Murdoch, wants to charge for online articles. Correct me if I’m wrong.

#61 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.11.09 at 4:41 pm

#57 gold bugger

You need to read some books on ETHICS! Those are not Marxist, they are fundamental to a free society.

What are you a lawyer who thinks if the law doesn’t prohibit it then it is okay to do?

BTW, Caveat emptor was regarded with disdain. It is not meant to be a way of life, but a warning to the masses against people who lack ethics. Your ideology is WHY we have to have laws to deal with your ilk.

However, if you insist on No Rules then we can gladly toss out the legal system and hunt your ass down if you piss someone off.

#62 ncoffee on 05.11.09 at 4:54 pm

Re: #57 —

Closeted authoritarians? Marxists? Sheesh. Even Ayn Rand was against fraud and publishing lies, Gold Bugger! Come on!

#63 Chris in England IG-AZ at the moment on 05.11.09 at 4:58 pm

Live Within Your Means #60: “I stopped delivery of our local paper a few years ago. Seems I read the other day the big scam artist, Rupert Murdoch, wants to charge for online articles. Correct me if I’m wrong.”

I am guessing this is something that will become quite common. If we all stop reading newspapers and move en mass to online news they will have to rake it back some way. What’s the betting that the price of reading an online article will be higher than buying the paper!

#64 Nebbio on 05.11.09 at 6:25 pm

I guess Brad found a few moments when not driving around in his big, black Rolls Royce to strike a pensive pose for the photogs. I agree with you Garth. What a horrible excuse for journalism.

#65 Alex on 05.11.09 at 6:45 pm

Report from trenches , lol:
I am electrician in Toronto and I know a lot of folks in my trade who are sitting without a job. At every site that I work ( I work on many) tradesmen recently started to ask
the same question: “Are u busy?” I am, but I know they want to hear that I am not, cause they are not. Just this morning I met a lady who is running her daycare bussiness,
she said before she had 6 kids, and now only 2!!! She felt
really frustrated while telling me that parents had to
take care of their kids at home due to loss of job.
When she will have 6 kids again then I know we will
be getting out of this recession.

#66 EJ on 05.11.09 at 9:19 pm

#57 Gold Bugger

I think you misunderstood my comment. By “how do they get away with reporting high prices as good news”, I meant that the public should be seeing this as negative news but instead are convinced to see it the way the spinner wants them to and believes it’s positive.

But I fail to see how you equate truth and standards in journalism with “Marxist” policy.. Or do you just enjoy being lied to?

#67 D from London, ON on 05.11.09 at 9:24 pm

#63 Chris – I have no doubt this will be the way of the future for online news, etc. There are two things that make me feel better about the move to online, however:

1) The cost of collecting and transmitting news from around the world is much less expensive now due to the Internet and other communications technology advances;

2) The cost of disseminating the news is much cheaper online than via paper. The initial investment to start up an outlet is much cheaper than the initial investment to start up presses, distribution channels, etc.

These two advances have substantially lowered the barriers to entry into the credible world-wide news gathering and dissemination game. Lower barriers means more entrants, means more competition. bye-bye oligarchy, hello something a little more competitive.

This may not keep the cost of Murdoch’s news down, but it will provide many other options and different price points.

#68 dd on 05.11.09 at 10:13 pm

#57 gold bugger

“I’m amazed this is legal” or how does “the MSM gets away with reporting high housing prices as ‘good news’,”

The RE whores will make any story spin. If it was lower house prices they would say that is good.

#69 Dave on 05.11.09 at 11:38 pm

When she will have 6 kids again then I know we will
be getting out of this recession.

——————————————————-

yeah, that’s how George Soros determines whether we’re in a recession too. Who needs the Dow or the Baltic Dry Index when you have the babysitter index.

#70 Eduardo on 05.12.09 at 12:02 am

Rory,

While the Bakken is a great play, the breakeven cost of producing oil in that play is still 50$ as a result of the amount of frac’ing, completion techniques and sizes of the horizontals. They are also at the mercy of the service cos in better times.

The business model is different although oil sands will be the go-to oil investment worldwide once we see oil back over 100 and rising due to the fact that you pay a low royalty rate until you have payed back your asset and the fact that you build your asset once and it produces for 40 years.

I agree that the Bakken is a great play in the 60-80 range as compared to oil sands though, but don’t count on it being a death kiss.

#71 Barb the proof reader on 05.12.09 at 12:45 am

#61 Bill-Muskoka:
(to: #57 gold bugger)
“However, if you insist on No Rules then we can gladly toss out the legal system and hunt your ass down if you piss someone off.”

Good one, Bill! :)

(you caught a mis-information troll in the act)

#72 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.12.09 at 11:01 am

#66 EJ

He(she) probably watches Fox News for all that ‘fair and balanced’ reporting. ROFLMAO!

#73 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.12.09 at 11:01 am

#71 Barb the proof reader

Not hard to do. ;-)

#74 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.12.09 at 11:32 am

#67 D from London, ON

Newspapers used to have seasoned journalists working for them. Nowadays they have a few (very few) wet behind the ears Gophers who are sent out to do ‘fill’ stories.

The majority of news is done by service bureaus who have actual journalists in the field. That is why all the news is basically the same. Newspapers and the TV/Radio media ‘subscribe’ to ‘feeds’ and that is the basic limit of their ‘news’ sources. The Talking Heads/columnists then pontificate their mantra of dis-information to the masses.

Read some of the comments to the Star columnists. The people are dissing them like the Swine Flu.

The old days of the UPI/AP teletypewirter ‘news’ are gone and replaced now by subscription internet and satellite feeds. That is where the money is being made, from closed source broadcasts for a fee.

Yes, I have worked in TV and Radio and my wife worked in the newspaper business for two decades. It is not any different than the National Enquirer, in fact the NE is at least hilarious at times.

Just look at TV ‘news’ they are now all speciality shows featuring Talking Heads of Reknown like Dan Rather, Peter Mansbridge, Jim Lehrer, etc.

Then there are the Fox News morons which are like a cheap carnival sideshow version of meaningful discussion. One could expect the same ‘objectivity” by attending a Bong Party of drug addicts.

Personally, I prefer Jon Stewart (perhaps the most in-depth, unbiased, and honest ‘news’ source on TV and with depth in the interviews, unlike his cohort Colbert who’s ego overwhelmes the entire show and I find assinine at this point and haven’t watched in months) and Max Headroom! LOL

The MSM’s claim to being the defender of freedom is such a joke as to be nauseating. They are cheap whores interested in power and profits. We still need to watch the CRTC and FCC on any rulings they may contemplated regarding ‘charges’ for news. BTW, who really gives a damn about all the things that do not directly affect our own lives? Be honest folks!

Talk about a ‘Wag The Dog’ scenario on a constant IV drip? My attitude is simple ‘If it doesn’t affect me; if I can do nothing about it; if there are responsible people to handle the situation; then, in reality, it is NOT my concern. I have a life.

If there is an imminent threat to my family, self, or property then I have a duty to care and act. As to things like car crashes, Israel, the Pope, forest and brush fires, floods, etc., outside of my realm are not crtitical issues for me to even think about. Otherwise I simply do not CARE!

Shit happens every minute on this planet and not being God, I see no reason to get in a tizzy over them all. There are people doing what needs to be done, that is called civilization. If I am able to help someone I will in a heartbeat, but to sit and fret over things I have no control ofor ability to change is self-destructive for anyone. The MSM feeds this addiction by making people feel ‘part’ of the situation. In the vast majority of ‘situations’ we are not!

Here at Garth’s we get to share with each other and I would venture to say there is more actual ‘news’ and learning going on here than in any of the so-called news sources directly. When people communicate we learn from each other, and remember, each of us is FREE to accept or reject anything another says. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head to make them ‘believe’.

#75 D from London, ON on 05.12.09 at 3:03 pm

Bill (NAM) – I agree with your tirade # 74. Those are all excellent reasons for us to “unplug” from paying for print journalism.

Like you, I have had no illusions about the “honesty” of any news organizations for most of my life. The difference now is that “the sheep look up” and there exists an opportunity to get rid of these propaganda sheets by taking away another source of revenue (paid subscriptions) when they are vulnerable due to shrinking ad revenues. Maybe it will be the coup de grace…

P.S. – Don’t take a swipe at my spelling – when I’m on a ranting roll I make silly mistakes… :-)

#76 Barb the proof reader on 05.12.09 at 3:20 pm

#74 Hey Bill,

Stewart is the best, our favourite too. And isn’t it crazy that the best ‘news’ source is a comedy show. But then, comedy is usually the most honest medium.

As for Colbert, honestly Bill, you are showing your crankiness! Stephen Colbert’s act is amazing, like a juggler or magician.. How he does it I’ll never understand, but Colbert’s schtick is to pose as a typical smug, know-it-all, stupid, narrow-minded, ultra-right wing-nut’. Of COURSE he has to act arrogant, silly. There’s no actual ego, just fake ego.. that helps to add to the mockery, to show those neocon jerks for what they are.

As for the occasional tom-foolery…. gets a younger crowd watching, so it’s good for you and I to watch Colbert a bit to keep on top of what the ‘kids’ are in to…. like certain hero/cartoon/video characters I guess.

I love his “fear of bears” act, and the segment called “The Word” .. magnificent writing!

Anyway Bill, if you dump on Colbert it’s probably because he’s so loud, with extra layers of sarcasm, which is hard on us old folks. But I just had to correct you …. Colbert’s “ego” is just an act, and also maybe just a bit loud…. better suited to the young’ins. All in fun though! :)

Try lookin’ at Stephen that way.. he’s a devilish little imp, and very smart.

#77 sumyunguy on 05.12.09 at 8:00 pm

“The economics of this, I understand. The whoring-out of the news columns, I do not.

When newspapers sell their news, there is nothing left.”

in “outfoxed, Rupert Murdoch’s war on journalism” a judge’s ruling states that falisfying the news is completely legal.

#78 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.13.09 at 10:15 am

#76 Barb the proof reader

Barb,

I am not as sure as you that Colbert’s ego is all an act. Yes, I know his routine, and agree that the ‘Word’ is brilliant writing. What I find obnoxious is his complete rudeness towards his guest, just like Rush Limburger constantly interrupting. Stewart is one of the very best interviewers in the business (much better than Barbara Wawa ever was in my opinion as one example) and draws far more interesting guests than Colbert. I learn important things by watching his interviews.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery then I feel Colbert is giving a lot of homage to the very ones he is claimed to be dissing. Stewart does it much, much better by simply showing how mindless they are by their own words. But, as with most things in life, to each their own.

I stopped watching Colbert because it was always too much about Colbert, his seeking awards, getting his name on the ISS, etc. Granted it can be entertaining but he stopped doing that for me.

#79 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.13.09 at 10:17 am

#75 D from London, ON

I could not find a spelling error to swipe at? LOL

#80 Dan in Victoria on 05.13.09 at 11:04 am

Maybe “Baghdad Bob”should be MSM’s new poster boy,after all he did have a few good quotes,”I speak better english than George Bush”and “The american press is all about lies,all they tell is lies and more lies”

#81 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.13.09 at 1:27 pm

#80 Dan in Victoria

He definitely had a way with words! LOL

Baghdad Bob

#82 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.13.09 at 1:28 pm

His best quotes

#83 Barb the proof reader on 05.13.09 at 1:52 pm

Bill, “about Colbert, his seeking awards, getting his name on the ISS”

Try to remember Bill, Stephen is mocking MSM and the ridiculous culture that makes it so easy for anybody to become “famous”. By pretending these things, and playing the role of the arrogant idiot, what he’s saying is, okay, I’ll jump in and show everyone this is ridiculous.

What I think is that his show is somewhat intense, that is to say, too much for oldies like us. I first thought about that when my husband said he was ‘loud’. I thought, well turn it down then. But what the show is, is directed toward people younger than the Jon Stewart crowd.

However, it’s no less revealing about the shallow cowards and ignorant control freaks we have in our society whom the sheep revere. I think Colbert’s role is to trickily show a younger generation that they can and should scrutinize our culture. He has a clever way of showing that people like Limbaugh are a sham. To get younger brains to listen he HAS to spend a lot more energy getting the message across, because young brains want that kind of stimulus.

Do you see where I’m going? Colbert’s got a great show, doing as much public service and education as Stewart, just to a different generation. It’s just that an older generation doesn’t need Stephen’s kind of stimulus to pay attention.

Jon Stewart had me at hello. There’s no one better. But Stewart hired Colbert for a reason.. to speak to a younger generation. I’m happy about both shows, but I too mostly just watch Jon because his thinking is more like mine, but I’m very glad too that Colbert is educating a younger crowd as well.

#84 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.13.09 at 3:57 pm

#83 Barb the proof reader

I suppose? Maybe I am just getting old and stodgy? LOL

Colbert DID get a gym machine named after him and DID win a??? What was that a Grammy, Enema, not an Oscar, some TV award thingy?

I guess he is like George Whatshisname on CBC’s ‘The Hour’? I can’t stand his body language…to me it is all a farce. But then you may be right about enticing the younger generation? Personally, I will always prefer meaningful, intelligent satire like Jon does.

But what the heck, I do not own or use a iPod and walk around having blasting sound turning my brain into mush! ;-)

I hope the upcoming generation will be able to explain to their children and grand children all the body piercing and tattoos? If things go as they usually do, they kids will become rather conservative about such things. As the old saying goes ‘They’ll have some ‘splainin’ to do!’

#85 Barb the proof reader on 05.13.09 at 5:31 pm

#84
You got it Bill. I’m trying to watch out for my own creeping stodgy attitudes, so I love it when I catch one in the making.

My Dad at 91 is a classic. He loves to moan about everything. He despises guitars, computers, piercings, and Wolf Blitzer…. okay, well, who doesn’t despise Wolf Blitzer.

And I agree with your theory that these trends somewhat reverse in subsequent generations. The example from one generation seems to ‘turn off’ the next. To each his own. Bang on.

#86 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 05.14.09 at 11:40 am

okay, well, who doesn’t despise Wolf Blitzer?

#85 Barb the proof reader

Wolf Blitzer? ;-)

Jon Stewart mocked him the other night about the President’s party for the media at the White House. It was hilarious!