Homecoming

fox

As the morons on Fox News were denigrating our soldiers, four of them were dying in Afghanistan. It’s a conflict plagued with questions. Even our prime minister now says the Afghan war cannot be won. But he’s not there. Nor are we. Nor Fox News.

Sometimes, however, worlds collide. That happened this week as those four, who sacrified everything, arrived in their hearses bearing flags at the coroner’s office in downtown Toronto.

William Stratas, the webmaster of this site and a man with whom I have shared many unique experiences, was there as the long journey ended. “Everyone is familiar with the highway overpass scenes,” he says, “what happens within arm’s reach of the motorcade as it arrives at destination is far more intimate – plus the emotive walk-about of their comrades after the cars have passed.”

87 comments ↓

#1 nonplused on 03.23.09 at 9:41 pm

Every member of the Armed forces, Police, Fire, EMS, and the ER staff at hospitals are heros IMHO.

Makes our little economic problems seem a bit silly, doesn’t it.

A big shout out to those in uniform, and those who assist them.

#2 David on 03.23.09 at 9:58 pm

Garth

Thanks very much for the posting. That is the first time I had the opportunity to witness this part of their journey. I do not believe that it has ever been shown on the news.

I found it to be truly emotional. Again many thanks.

#3 Alberta Girl on 03.23.09 at 10:10 pm

Bless them all and Thanks to all the others still fighting!

#4 Alex on 03.23.09 at 10:34 pm

“9-th Company”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XPLlW8c1iE

“Black Tulip” on Russiab slang is the aircraft which brings fallen soldiers from Aphganistan. Turn on sound, listen “Black Tulip” song and see epizode from the “9-th company” movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqgNmo1Yig&feature=related

Russians pay tribute to fallen soviet soldiers in Afghanistan. 20 years ago Soviets removed their army from Afghanistan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81rB9s6y-k8&feature=related

Shall we learn the lessons of others?

As captain from the “9-th company” says: “Islam is not just another religion, it is another way of life, it is different way of relation to life”. …And you probably wondering why did it take us to fight this war with a bunch of savages longer than it took us to finish Hitler, Mussolini and Japanese imperor?

May be we need declare Islam as the hateful idelogy, the cult of death, like nazism?

#5 Barb the proofreader on 03.23.09 at 10:46 pm

Thank you, William for filming, Garth for posting.

#6 Marc on 03.23.09 at 10:50 pm

God bless those brave men and women who fight for us.

#7 dbg on 03.23.09 at 10:53 pm

The Morons on FOX have just sunk to a new low for TV networks gone bad. It’s terrible that people in the media/entertainment have become so disconnected. Anything goes these days to get the ratings up.

#8 Grind & Gnash on 03.23.09 at 10:59 pm

Got to grind & gnash my teeth at whats happening to our soldiers and their families especially the kids that wont have fathers.

while the soldiers dont deserve what those morons at Fox said about them, but Canada the country deserves it fully.

Majority of canadians dont want us participating in the war but our pols sent our boys there to pander to the right-wingers of the morons south so that they’ll think us nice and send some biz our way and keep this country employed.

sad part is the people did not come together to pressure the pols to not renew till 2011. hope our govt dosent extend in a surprise move beyond 11.

i dont want my tax $ helping any country in ignoble endeavours now or in the future. how bout u?

#9 Barb the proofreader on 03.23.09 at 11:09 pm

Meanwhile in Calgary 50 Aryan Guard marched at city hall for “White Pride World Day.” Some of these same Aryan Guard showed up in Sept. to protest the Liberal Town Hall meeting held by Mr. Dion.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/03/23/cgy-aryan-racism-protest-police-complaints.html
As one of the comments suggests, expect more of this. They seem to act like they are in power now in Canada.. hmm.

#10 Emigrant - XYZ on 03.23.09 at 11:34 pm

the canadian ignorance – of not opposing the american war and generally of not having any public attitude – it is now rewarded with dead sons.
vive quebec, the last bastion of independent thinking in north america.

#11 Emigrant - 2nd one on 03.23.09 at 11:39 pm

if you count the $$$ wasted on limos, office leases, and $100000 average salaries for hundreds of persons involved, it would have been enough to buy latest generation on armored vechicles, or put that into army research – to protect those that will die tomorrow. I bet the protagonists are not aware they play in a circus, and they belive being patriotic while wasting government money

#12 Jake on 03.23.09 at 11:52 pm

Although I often question the motives for our involvement in Afghanistan, I have never questioned the fact that many of our finest citizens are over there and are trying to serve both our nation and Afghanistan honorably. My heart goes out to them and their families. In so many ways I feel that I do not measure up. Welcome home boys.

#13 Basil Fawlty on 03.23.09 at 11:56 pm

Support the troops, bring them home.

#14 Terry on 03.24.09 at 1:42 am

What ran through my mind upon hearing their comedy skit, was how they managed to insult the dead, the wounded and one of their closest allies.

On a percapita basis, Canada has lost a great deal in this war. The US has lost around 640 soldiers, Canada has lost the equivalent of 1275.

Fox has a lot to answer for. This behavior is shameful.

#15 Munch on 03.24.09 at 2:13 am

I salute these four – their country doesn’t derserve them!

Emotions aside, they died while their leaders lie, cheat, steal and plunder what little is left. There is a special little corner of hell reserved for them.

Munch from Johannesburg

#16 Mike (authentic) on 03.24.09 at 5:04 am

I joined the Canadian Armed Forces in 1991, just as the 1st Gulf War broke out.

That said, I support our troops but not the “US Style” mission the are on. Canada was renoun as a friendly, peace-keeper country, that held it’s head up high and got respect worldwide for the good things we did outside of Canada.

Our Afganistan mission is agressive, destructive and un-Canadian. Just because the US is our “friend” doesn’t mean we need to sleep in the same bed.

#17 wjp on 03.24.09 at 6:30 am

The loss of any life is indeed sad…please let us remember our trrops and forget Fox News…after all, consider the source…Fox News, hardly a reputable news service at the best of time, and this particular program was meant to be satirical. Add to that the fact that many Americans know little about Canada and could care less, other than we have oil.

#18 canuck on 03.24.09 at 6:39 am

It must help when remains are returned to their country of service rather than burying them in Commonwealth graves where families are never able to grieve.

Thanks for posting that video.

#19 Jonathan on 03.24.09 at 8:26 am

We treat our soldiers honorably. I wouldn’t expect anything less.

These great men have taken our country from a peace keeping force to an offensive organized military in only a few short years. They must have worked very hard.

America respects our army and our mission in Afghanistan. Canada is the strongest, most responsible, most passionate and caring country the world over. A few ill-informed late night talk show hosts shouldn’t be used by some hysteric Canadian online bloggers as an welcomed opportunity to bash America. Those bloggers have used a sad event and disgusting comments as an opportunity to self loathe.

I’ve read this blog so far, and I have to say, I can’t see this here.

#20 Jon C. Coates on 03.24.09 at 8:35 am

This group of idiots only managed to bring massive discredit and dishonour on their own country. At the same time they managed to show their total ignorance and disregard for the facts. As an old Australian manager I once worked for many years ago, I just want to tell them, “bugger off – strong letter to follow”. They should be ashamed of themselves but they don’t have enough intelligence to display that emotion.

#21 Makeorbreak on 03.24.09 at 8:47 am

Back to real estate: In Chelsea, Quebec, house for sale for $1.00. The guy hopes to start a bidding war. En français:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-droit/actualites/economie/200903/23/01-839465-maison-a-vendre-a-chelsea-pour-1-.php

#22 Dead Cat Bounce on 03.24.09 at 8:55 am

I kind of give the fox news guys a little bit of a pass, they are too stupid to know they were walking into a bees nest when they made their stupid jokes.

If we wouldn’t have just lost four soldiers I think their ‘jokes’ would have went unnoticed. They picked a bad spot though, and now our media is having a field day.

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
Evelyn Beatrice Hall

#23 Pierre on 03.24.09 at 8:55 am

Life is so precious. God bless all of our soldiers.

As a free society, we must learn to unite and state our beliefs and values.

It’s time for people to stand up for what is right and to denounce dishonesty, greed and lies.

When people deny little girls their right to education and to freedom of choice, when people kill randomly innocent people, when people steal other people’s dream, we must denounce them.

Thank you.

#24 PTDBD on 03.24.09 at 8:57 am

Verbal apologies are not enough. Visiting and talking with and our forgotten wounded may give them a better understanding of the sacrifice and role of our soldiers.

#25 lgre on 03.24.09 at 9:03 am

All these people dying for no reason is absolutely absurd. The war in afghanistan is pointless and it will never end..does George Orwell’s 1984 read familiar??

Unfortunatly what these poor souls dont understand is that they are protecting the corrupt policys and best interests of the U.S government. I wonder how much Harper was paid for this..I’m sure alot. Sad day indeed.

#26 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 9:16 am

As to our troops coming home in coffins with honours. Well, my son is a career military man in the U.S. and when he saw how we honour our fallen he said ‘Why aren’t we doing that here?’ He is distributing the video to all his friends and there will be changes made now that Bush the Denier/Liar is GONE!

I personally know several of our troops who have been there and believe me it has changed them. War does that to every one. Me, my son, my friends who have served.

As to the arseholes of Fox News…Fox = Fattassed, Oblivious, Xenophobes!

They are NOT Americans they are ignorant POS’s that should be treated like a rabid dog and put out of their misery, and ours! Hell, even Rednecks have more class than the SFB’s of Fox, aka Faux!

I hope a returned Sniper takes their insult to heart!

#27 Herb on 03.24.09 at 9:17 am

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. It may be sweet and proper to die for one’s country, but whether it is sweet and proper to die for the national interest depends on that national interest.

Government of Canada, it is past time you specified our national interest in Afghanistan, and not in the nebulous, mellifluous terms used so far.

Grieve for the lives lost or impaired and the affected families, but let’s also hang our heads in shame for having let this mission carry on as if it served a purpose beyond international expediency and CF institutional imperatives.

#28 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 9:21 am

#20 Jon C. Coates on 03.24.09 at 8:35 am

Let’s not do the typical ignorant Canadian thing of ‘their country’ Jon. That makes you no better than they are.

Those assholes do NOT, nor have they ever, represented America or Americans. No group stereotyping, these are just personal POS’s that deserve to have their asses kicked and hard by some veterans, preferably Americans.

As to their ‘apology’…Apology NOT accepted. Let the POS’s walk in fear on the streets. That much they have earned!

#29 Linda Pearson on 03.24.09 at 10:21 am

re Bill – #26 – “I hope a returned Sniper takes their insult to heart!”

Stand down, Marine. Go cool off.

#30 Flip on 03.24.09 at 10:25 am

Thanks for the post Garth.

It’s the flippant attitude demonstrated by individuals and facetious corporations such as Fox News that downgrades the American brand and depreciates their goodwill around the globe.

What once was the most powerful and influential nation in the world is now nothing more than a bitter, tired and troubled country.

Let Rome burn – they deserve it.

#31 Mike B formerly just Mike on 03.24.09 at 10:50 am

You honestly cannot expect much from these moronic late late late shows.. They do crazy stuff just to get a rise out of people… as if that is entertainment.
If the world wants to really win the war they need to put 10 times more troops on the ground and make it a massive offensive. As it is these kids have no chance at the snails pace they being told to work. Either pullout or do the job properly. If this ends in a year or so and nothing really changes then we have just sacrificed hundred of our young for the rantings of GW Bush.
This should be approached as a military operation and not a political one. Once politics enters then the problem will never get solved and we will loose untold lives. JUST STOP.

#32 Al on 03.24.09 at 10:55 am

#25 Igre,

“I wonder how much Harper was paid for this..I’m sure alot. Sad day indeed.”

We went to Afghanistan in Feb of 2002 when Chretien was in office. The move to Kandahar and more active operations began in Feb of 2006, shortly after Harper took office. The planning for the move would have occurred under Martin’s watch.

Please feel free to criticise Harper, but only for things for which he is responsible.

#33 Munch on 03.24.09 at 10:55 am

Munch fought in the bush wars in Rhodesia and in South West Africa – the best 7 years of Munch’s life, but Munch had no idea what he was fighting for – and that’s the point when young men go out to die, they know not what they do. To hell with politicians!

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#35 dekethegeek on 03.24.09 at 11:00 am

#22 Dead Cat Bounce – I thought it was Voltaire who said ” I may disagree with what you say but defend to the death your right to say it’
Anywho. I think the jist of that saying is . . .
The Taliban in Afghanistan were shooting women in the back of the head in front of a soccer stadium full of cheering crowds for ‘adultery” or some other trumped up charge. Music was banned, statues, photos, etc. all banned . Because of their warped view of Islam. Of course every lunatic with an agenda flocked to that LAWLESS country.
These people are the scourge of the Middle east and unfortunately if we dont deal with them there we will reap the consequenses of inaction. This is a dirty little war that will go on and on and on. The price of turning tail and allowing that country to revert back to a Narco funded Theocracy is not worth considering.
Take note that even your beloved Obama is pulling troops from a somewhat stable Iraq to send to Afghanistan.
War is mean,unfair,nasty,cruel and pointless but, some people dont negotiate they just want to destroy everything. People are dying on both sides and while it is tragic that is the ultimate price WE PAY for our freedoms.
What happens if all the foriegn aid countries pull out. Total anarchy within weeks and it sends a message to all the other people who living under a repressive regime ( Sudan, Somalia, Burma,Zimbabwe, etc.etc.etc.)that we will turn and run when the body count rises.
The military’s job is to go into harms way. People die.
My condolences to the families of all the dead Allied forces.

#36 RS on 03.24.09 at 11:03 am

It breaks my heart to see young men lose their lives for a war that is pointless. We need to get them out of there!

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#38 60ish on 03.24.09 at 11:18 am

I’ve just made a personal commitment to never again watch a single minute of FOX programming (not that I watched it much before).

The above statement on its own, will not keep their CEO awake at night.

However, if a large percentage of Canadian’s made that same commitment, FOX would get the message. They are there because during breaks, they sell cornflakes and cars and beer to their audience. No Canadian audience = decreased Canadian corn flake sales.

FOX will notice that. Advertisers, even in the US, will lean to networks with residual advertising results in Canada, too.

#39 Alex on 03.24.09 at 11:31 am

What did they say on Fox News about Canadian soldiers? Any youtube links?
Thanks.

#40 Ally Ally Oxycontin Free on 03.24.09 at 11:50 am

#26 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 9:16 am

‘We were abandoned’

“An elite unit of snipers went from standouts to outcasts — victims, many say, of a witch hunt driven by jealousy and fear” …

http://www.macleans.ca/canada/national/article.jsp?content=20060515_126689_126689

Word Count: 6211

Postscript:

Faux Sports was responsible for creating the “blue halo” affect in order that sufferers from severe ADHD could follow the puck in NHL games. I’ve asked them to modify the affect and pass it forward to international curling, in order that we can follow the high-speed stone during travel into the circle.

Faux News is responsible for late-night ‘phone calls
between a news mandarin and his program producer under the guise / pretext, “What’re you wearing?”

I’m like you, Bill.

Never Stand Down … Know Your Adversary!

#41 Glenn on 03.24.09 at 11:58 am

So these Canadian guys go over to Afghanistan as tip staff for the CIA opium scam (remember: the Taliban has virtually wiped out all opium fields, but within a year of the US occupation its RECORD OPIUM YEILDS YAY!), then they come home in a box and are “escorted” by bloated dope dealing pedophile “peace officers” that were too cowardly to go overseas to fight REAL enemies so they stayed home to beat on women and old people and write tickets and do NOTHING to stop real crime? Talk about insult to injury!

#42 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 12:05 pm

#33 Munch on 03.24.09 at 10:55 am

Just like the non-war I fought in called Viet Nam! We had no real idea why we were there, other than the ‘Communist Threat’, the catch phrase for whatever some Washington Jerkoffs used to declare military action before the fall of the USSR.

The Vietnamese thought we were after the Gold in Them Thar’ Hills! The same hills the Grunts took over and over as McNamara sat in Washington micro-mangleing the action. After 58,000 DEAD AMERICANS and 30 years he said ‘I erred!’ Yeah, NO SHIT Sherlock!

Then we find out decades later there is OIL off the Vietnam Cost. What a surprise, eh? Guess who is after that? CHINA!

Afghanistan will always be Afghanistan and no Western Do-Gooders are ever going to change that. Just like any other country until the PEOPLE RISE UP and take charge of their own destiny, not anything will change.

As to the morons barking the Drug thing perhaps they need to realize that the world needs that opium to manufacture good drugs that relieve people’s pain like Morphine. Right now there is a SHORTAGE of raw materials. Another Bush like knee-jerk reaction in the phoney War on Drugs! Typical neo-con mindset of ‘Have a problem? Start a war on it!’

At least progress has been made in Iraq after General Petreus instituted intelligent means like handing out real aid and money. He got the idea from a Canadian!

I have family serving there, and friends in ‘Ghan and they are doing a job no Armchair General would even get off their arse to do.

To me, the only justification for military existing is DEFENSE of OUR homeland or our neighbor.

The entire Middle East is the result of Do-Gooders creating Partitioning to rid Europe of the Jews the Europeans did not want, and a bunch of Zionists from New York who wanted to create a Theocratic State.

These people have been at civilization for millenia, not a mere two centuries or less. Will the power perverts ever learn? Not as long as there is profit to be made by scumbags like Cheney/Halliburton Corp., Becthel Corp., the oil companies, and mercenaries like Blackwater. Funny how ’24’ is portraying that story this season!

Like the wisdom of the Bible teaches ‘Do not grab fighting dogs lest you be bitten!’ Engaging in full fledged war is ridiculous unless it is on our own soil. Simply send in a JTF2 or Navy Seal/Marine Forced Recon Sniper Team and eliminate the SOB causing the problem. One shot! One KILL! No problemo!

Oh, and NATO was NEVER setup to be the guardians of the Middle East. It was started to protect the West from the Soviet Bloc countries and the thousands of Soviet tanks that would have overrun Europe. Another farcical excuse to send troops into Harm’s Way to benefit the rich!

As to the idiots with the ‘We can’t turn tail and run!’ ideology here is a bit of real world experience ‘Marines never fight to get Marines killed. They make the enemy die for their country and know when to reschedule or abandon a mission that only results in OUR loss!’

Real leaders preserve their own first and use wisdom, reality, and intelligent tactics to win, not merely send in troops as fodder for the enemy. There is no Glory in war, and none in stupidity for ego’s sake either. Machismo is also not to be confused with Honour or Bravery. Machismo is NOT part of a real Soldier’s training, it for gutter level gangbangers, punks, and morons.

#43 kc on 03.24.09 at 12:13 pm

support the troops, not the war….. 9/11 was an inside job

#44 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 12:21 pm

#29 Linda Pearson on 03.24.09 at 10:21 am

Not a chance Linda. The Oath a Marine takes is the same as the President in the part that says ‘I will defend the Consitution against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC!’

Fox News is as bad, if not worse, than the propaganda arm of the Nazi’s under Goebbels. Believe this, there will be some Vet who will not only take umbridge at Fox’s clowns but action. That Vet will be the result of the finest training the government can provide! That Vet will have respect for the Canadians he/she fought with side by side. Fox will be screaming for police protection like the worthless hypocrits they are.

It will be good to see them bastards sweat in fear like our troops do every day. Even Edmonton cancelled the performance of the one ignorant moron because of ‘threats’ against his stupid arse.

Remember Major FU? The one that pressed the pickle and bombed, against orders, our troops into pieces? Well, he has been Blackballed by the USAF troopers and received ‘corporal punishment’ from what my sources say.

The American people have AWAKENED, and they will put a permanent stop to the likes of Fox New’s (what an oxymoron) just like they have other disgraceful groups.

The fact is these POS’s at Fox have no souls, no respect for others, and no justification to have access to the public airwaves to spread their ignorant lies any longer. Free speech is also responsible speech despite some whiney types and their PC banner. That is why it is ILLEGAL to yell ‘FIRE!’ in a crowded theater.

#45 lgre on 03.24.09 at 12:29 pm

Al – I couldn’t care less who’s watch we went to war under..Harper is our leader now and has been for a couple of years..everyday that he has been in power he had the authority to remove our troops from this pointless war..instead he befriended an evil doer (Bush) and has been responsible for the people who have died under his watch. Martin and Chretien are no different except they aren’t in power to make decisions at this point, Haper is.

#46 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 12:36 pm

#39 Ally Ally Oxycontin Free on 03.24.09 at 11:50 am

You bectha! I have put up with that fatassed moron Rush Limburger for decades now. Nothing pleases me more than to see him help destroying the Redumblican Party as their appointed Leader. The real Republican Party had/has some good people in it, but his ilk are not worth the crap a dog dumps. Same goes for all political parties.

Never Stand Down to arseholes!

#47 Herb on 03.24.09 at 12:40 pm

dekethegeek,

your #35 is too good to ignore, since it serves up many of the propaganda pasties that don’t bear examination. So let’s examine them.

“shooting women in the back of the head” – In Saudi Arabia and a few other Islamic countries, they bury adulteresses up to the neck and saw (not chop) off their heads with a knife. Are you signing up for the invasion to stop the death penalty for adultery wherever it ispracticed, or do you only object to a bullet to the back of the head?

“These people are the scourge of the Middle east” – Says who? The Taliban operate in Afghanistan and part of Pakistan. What other area of the Middle East have they threatened? If you change the channel to al Qaeda, they are not interested in the theocracy you accuse the Taliban of pursuing.

“if we dont deal with them there we will reap the consequenses of inaction.” – What consequences of inaction? Do you expect them (Taliban and/or al Qaeda) to conquer the world, or at least invade Canada?

“revert back to a Narco funded Theocracy” – The “Theocracy” eradicated the poppy culture and drug trade during its tenure. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

“some people … just want to destroy everything.” – Do specify the organization or cultural group that just wants to destroy everything – I have not heard of any.

“the ultimate price WE PAY for our freedoms.” – How are our freedoms threatened in Afghanistan to warrant paying an ultimate price?

“Total anarchy within weeks” – Afghanistan would revert to what it was, a loose federation of fiercely ndependent tribes following their own ways.

“it sends a message to all the other people who living under a repressive regime ( Sudan, Somalia, Burma, Zimbabwe, etc.etc.etc.)that we will turn and run when the body count rises.” – I didn’t know that we were fighting in Sudan, Somalia, Burma, Zimbabwe etc. However, I do recognize the “Domino Doctrine” redux, and it is just as irrelevant now as it was in the ‘60s.

As I suggested in an earlier post, it is time the Government went beyond spreading propaganda and let us know the facts that warrant our involvement and strategy. And the education of girls, backwardness of the country, and lack of democracy had nothing to do with our decision to go into or stay in Afghanistan.

#48 Linda Pearson on 03.24.09 at 12:44 pm

re Bill, #44

Those yahoos at Fox aren’t domestic enemies, for Pete’s sake, they’re only assholes. Don’t you remember those feckless kids back in school who, thinking they were being funny, actually embarrassed all their friends with their moronic antics and comments in class. Well, here they are again – all “grown-up” and still just as stupid.

They are guilty of tasteless, unfunny, hurtful, provocative and humourless drivel but that’s all. If they were actually any good, do you think their programming would be aired in the middle of the night in most markets? Of course not. So you’re solution, a final one too, is way over the top in my opinion.

I still say, step back and regain your perspective.

#49 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 12:50 pm

I kind of give the fox news guys a little bit of a pass, they are too stupid to know they were walking into a bees nest when they made their stupid jokes.

#22 Dead Cat Bounce on 03.24.09 at 8:55 am

No friggin’ way! You need to get more like Bill Cosby. Here is what he had to say about the ‘behaviour’ of his fellow Blacks in the U.S. That is, BTW, Dr. Bill Cosby, PhD and reknowned comedian of life.

Bill Cosby has NAILED it!

‘They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English.

I can’t even talk the way these people talk:

Why you ain’t,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be…

And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.

And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads.

You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now

We’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.

$500 sneakers for what?

And they won’t spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

Where were you when he was 2?

Where were you when he was 12?

Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn’t know that he had a pistol?

And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn’t that a sign of something gone wrong?

People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn’t that a sign of something?

Isn’t it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from??

We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don’t know a thing about Africa ..

I say this all the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.

I was born here, and so were my parents and grandparents and, very likely, my great grandparents. I don’t have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands .. The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop it, already! ! !

With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap …..And all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem.

We have got to take the neighborhood back.

People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different ‘husbands’ — or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

We have million-dollar basketball players who can’t write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.

Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.’
Dr. William Henry ‘Bill’ Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.

WELL SAID, BILL

It’s NOT about color…

It’s about behaviour!!!

#50 smwhite on 03.24.09 at 12:51 pm

#4 Alex

May be we need declare Islam as the hateful [sic]idelogy, the cult of death, like nazism?

Bullshit! Gun tooting fundamentalist nut jobs don’t follow any specific religion, don’t be an ignoramus.

Every Canadian has to take responsibility for our soldiers fighting this dirty war, no matter what your political stripe. Harper even admitted you can’t win chasing this bastards around.

The Russians get chased out by the Muhajadeen and the help of the USA/CIA. So the commies were chased out and its the West’s turn to take a crack at all those natural gas, petroleum, coal, copper, lead, zinc, iron ore.

I whole heatedly agree with Lieutenant-General Leslie, Canadian soldiers need a break and some NEW gear before we throw them back into harms way without considering the consequences.

We’ve taken the shit end of the NATO stick, we’ve done our part with pride and dignity, time for either USA emprie to stop [email protected] around with attempting to secure cheap energy reserves in Iraq and take over the fight that they started 25 years ago.

Canadian soldiers deserve a huge pat on the back for Canadians sending them into theater without the proper equipment.

#51 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 12:58 pm

#48 Linda Pearson on 03.24.09 at 12:44 pm

I have done the Stand Back routine. No more! I am from the States and know first hand what these assholes have been doing for way too long. They destroyed a wonderful country for millions of people with their blatant lies, inuendoes, and manipulation. Enough of THEM!

It would be nice to be able to rationally deal with them, but they have proven they ‘failed to respond’ to such methods. Now let them feel FEAR! Just like the assholes at AIG are feeling FEAR! So are the Redumblicans who turned away from responsibility for regulation of the financial markets.

They will find out they are part of a society and their behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE! With that comes a CONSEQUENCE, and not some schmuck issuing a meaningless, ass covering, quasi apology on their behalf! Consider it a Sweat Lodge approach to behaviour modification!

#52 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 1:02 pm

#48 Linda Pearson on 03.24.09 at 12:44 pm

My ‘Final solution’? Au contrare, I am merely prognosticating what is logically a potential reality they will face. But, then most Canadians would not bother to even care, whereas Americans do and WILL! Something about Right and Wrong, Justice, and Freedom!

#53 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.24.09 at 1:06 pm

#47 Herb on 03.24.09 at 12:40 pm

Right on. The ORIGINAL Mission was to capture Bin Laden! Nothing more. Apparently the CIA training he received was Top Drawer as he has easily evaded all the thousands of troops, intell agents, etc. looking for him.

Maybe he is getting ‘special messages’ from his handlers back in Langley?

#54 Dead Cat Bounce on 03.24.09 at 1:36 pm

#35 dekethegeek – I agree with your post but I was more commenting on fox news then the war in Afganistan.

Not voltaire BTW

The phrase “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” is widely attributed to Voltaire, but cannot be found in his writings. With good reason. The phrase was invented by a later author as an epitome of Voltaire’s attitude. It appeared in The Friends of Voltaire (1906), written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall under the pseudonym S[tephen] G. Tallentyre.

#55 CM on 03.24.09 at 1:47 pm

#16 Mike (authentic)

“Our Afganistan mission is agressive, destructive and un-Canadian. Just because the US is our “friend” doesn’t mean we need to sleep in the same bed.”

I’ve heard quite a few ex-military, and also those nearing the end of their enlistment time or retirement, say very similar things. Something’s changed in the Canadian Forces, and they don’t much like it. The doctors have said that 24% of them are coming back from Afghanistan with their mental health in a bad way. Even when they try to maintain a tough exterior, their heads are in a mess. Their famlies don’t get the same person back that they sent there.

This is not good.

—–
#27 Herb

You’re absolutely right. “Dulce et decorum est…” – Horace’s words, blown right out of the water by Wilfred Owen describing the gas attacks of WW1. And we still haven’t learned. There are things worth fighting and dying for. Afghanistan isn’t one of them. Protecting a pipeline isn’t one of them. Helping Stevie “punch above his weight” certainly isn’t one of them.

One of those guys had a six-month-old kid. They all had families. So…damn…sad. My heart sink a little deeper every time I see one of those faces on the news sites looking at me. If it sinks any lower, I’ll be stepping on it soon.

“…If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,–
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.”

The uber-hawk Kipling was all for sending his son to fight. He died. Too late he wrote about his son and others:

“..If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.”
—–

Fox pundits – idiots. I resisted clicking on the incessant links to the video yesterday. My mind feels almost pulverized by idiocy as it is. But there was a quick three seconds of the video as a lead-in to the news yesterday and I noticed that the blond bimbo Monica Crowley was one of the panelists. Since she started spouting garbage on The McLaughlin Group (PBS), the program has taken a downward plunge (“plunge” being a very apt word).

I decided to look up her qualifications. Surprise! PhD in International Studies from Columbia. All that learning, and none of it stuck.

Never heard of the others.
—–
#29 Linda Pearson:
re Bill – #26 – “I hope a returned Sniper takes their insult to heart!”

Stand down, Marine. Go cool off.

Good one. It’s just Bill going incandescent again.
—–
From Scott Taylor in “Esprit de Corps”:

“…Our NATO allies know all too well that in 2005, they collectively warned Canada that Kandahar was too big a challenge for the limitations of our military. We ignored those warnings, demanded the Kandahar sector, and then promptly began shouting for assistance from those whose advice we ignored.”

http://www.espritdecorps.ca/Ontarget%20090318.htm

Also, looks like MacKay isn’t going to be the grande fromage at NATO.

I’m heartbroken.
—–

#56 CM on 03.24.09 at 2:02 pm

One more thing

Bruce MacKinnon´s cartoon in the Chronicle Herald on Fox and their comment on Canadian soldiers

http://thechronicleherald.ca/toon.php

#57 dd on 03.24.09 at 2:02 pm

#21 Makeorbreak

“Back to real estate: In Chelsea, Quebec, house for sale for $1.00. The guy hopes to start a bidding war.”

The $1.00 may not be a bargen. There is always more to the story.

#58 east of eden on 03.24.09 at 2:09 pm

I love Bill Cosby and remember him first from I Spy with William Culp (perhaps I mis-remember the name). Cosby made it during a time when men of colour were relegated to “dumb” roles. He, Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte – they made it during a time when it was nearly impossible. Cosby was so right in what he said and yet white and black people castigated him for what he said. And people wonder why we’re in so much trouble – the guy told it straight and look what happened.

Yeah, rap “stars” sure are great role models and Bill Cosby isn’t. We live in a topsy turvy world.

#59 Al on 03.24.09 at 2:15 pm

Igre,

Why not care about whose watch we went to war under? It seems very relevant, after all it is much easier to not take on a commitment to NATO and Afghanistan than it is to back out of it. You also didn’t ask how much Chretien or Martin got paid. Why is that?

#60 rory on 03.24.09 at 2:27 pm

Bill-Muskoka (NAM), I agree with Linda P…you are on the big slippery slope to nowhere with this one.

I think ‘stand down Marine’ ranks right up there with your ‘bottle of coke’ joke you so wrongly put onto our buddy Munch.

Herb and Dekethegeek …

Regardless of anything …the next world war will not be economic it will be about religion …Afghan and Iraq puts us into the middle of it all and hopefully diffuse it enough that the steam comes out slowly …will it be successful …not likely …first one country, then all Muslim countries, then the western world will be consumed …that is their hope …that is the real war…again, IMO.

Munch …if it turns out to be an economic war I am thinking Africa will be the centre of it all…lots of undeveloped wealth and armies not big or cohesive enough to keep it plus it is not in any of the major powers backyard …again, IMO

My deepest respect for all those that have fallen.

#61 dekethegeek on 03.24.09 at 3:23 pm

#47 Herb
So your solution is to “let them all rot in their own Sh*T? Since they are the creators of their troubles. Nice. Very empathetic.
I agree that Saudia Arabian Royal family should be lined up and flogged by their own people.
The Taliban/al Queda ( potato/potAto) want to destroy everything that isnt their twisted vision of Islam. So i guess I should have specified “destroy everything non Taliban Muslin.” Happy Now?
The majority of them are nothing more than lawless thugs hiding behind the Koran to justify the endless killings. Yes, your right, we arent currently in Africa . But as I noted, these countries are all ready for intervention or in your case. Lets let them all die too since “its not our problem.
Do you kick kittens as well with your jackboots?

#54 Dead Cat Bounce
Thank you for the update,very informative.

#62 . . . fried eggs and spam . . . on 03.24.09 at 3:30 pm

#15 Munch at 2:13 am — “. . . they died while their leaders lie, cheat, steal and plunder what little is left. . . .”

and #38 60ish at 11:18 am — Good posts.

Sentence from Munsch is right on. Wars in Iraq and Af’stan were never about the War on Terror, it was designed to boost Halliburton’s coffers.

Worldwide, ordinary folk are having to live with the fallout from the cost of Bush’s / Blair’s lies.

Fox has to take a good chunk of blame as well; it continued to spew forth what was spoonfed to them by the govts. in charge.

A printing term can be applied to FOX — Garbage (journalists / commentators) in, garbage (news / info.) out.

FOX isn’t even worth putting in a sewage-filled landfill, as they don’t even count as awful. Not sure that Hell would take FOX, either.

#63 gold bug on 03.24.09 at 3:34 pm

Muskoka Bill writes: “To me, the only justification for military existing is defence of our homeland or our neighbor.”

I’ll second that.

We need to get out of Afghaniland and anywhere else our impotent and underfunded army is meddling. The rest of the world is the rest of the world’s problem. We should engage in diplomacy, sure, but bring the boys home.

And we need to stop being distracted by what Faux News says about us and focus on why our politicians insist on sacrificing our men for absolutely no good reason.

#64 Opportunity on 03.24.09 at 3:59 pm

What a senseless battle ground. We learned nothing from the Russians who play by their own rules and still they couldn’t rid the area of the Taliban. Short of sending in tens of thousands of troops with no holds barred we will never rid this area of the Taliban, so why bother to submit Canadian soldiers and their families to these parades of failure.

We need a government in Afghanistan that isn’t corrupt and stealing all the money the western world is pouring into it. Then they can start to protect themselves.

Even Obama doesn’t see the futility in supporting this country. Harper doesn’t have any foresight beyond the end of his nose.

Bring the soldiers home and to hell with the Afghans.

#65 poorguy on 03.24.09 at 4:02 pm

This makes my blood boil.Our heroes are fighting war
to satisfy ego of some nasty leaders.We will never
win this war.Afganistan is a failed state.

#66 jess on 03.24.09 at 4:19 pm

rental fraud – i have seen these scams before when i lived in calgary and this is shameful…
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/23/landlord.foreclosure/index.html

#67 john m on 03.24.09 at 5:28 pm

Afghan is a terrible waste of young lives for what? The citizens there earn their living growing drugs for the taliban to finance their resistance while we turn a blind eye.Millions of dollars are being spent to secure peace so the oil companies can build a pipeline (is there any other reason we are there –honestly? ). Today dim jim gave his blessing to the suncor-petro can sale isn’t that a surprise! Well fasten your belts people because we will be paying at the pumps….regulations were put into place for a reason—to prevent price gouging. The oil companies played a very large part in the destruction of our way of life and economy together with the banks and their greed—–these are the people getting government protection while the average Canadian worries about feeding his family…….my thoughts

#68 Jake on 03.24.09 at 6:31 pm

Bill, you have so many good things to say in regards to war and the state of political affairs both in Canada and the US. My only question is why you constantly lay all of the criticism at the feet of the previous US administration while the current one is up to the same tricks. I know you love Obama, but please hold him and his administration to the same standards. Please focus your energy on the here and now. It is getting more screwed up by the day. There are not Democrats and Republicans, only Redumblicrats.

#69 CalgaryRocks on 03.24.09 at 6:51 pm

#61 dekethegeek on 03.24.09 at 3:23 pm #47 Herb
So your solution is to “let them all rot in their own Sh*T? Since they are the creators of their troubles. Nice. Very empathetic.

I fully agree with your previous statements and the idea that since we are there already, we should do our best to help these people out and win this thing. That’s not to say that I believe the ‘altruistic’ reasons given by the Bushman for the war.

Anyhow, it seems that the loony left in Canada will take it to the streets when their ‘culture’ budget gets cut by 1 percentage point but what’s a beheading (or 2) between friends as long as it is held in another country’s stadium. They are all a bunch of cowards and hypocrites.

#70 everthing is a con on 03.24.09 at 7:03 pm

they are brainwashed kids fighting a war for very wealthy powerful old men as part of a global agenda. i so sick of hearing this B.S. I don’t support the slaughter, poverty and starvation of the west’s liberation of these countries. do you really think we are over there because were bleeding hearts wanting to do the right thing. that’s the nonsense they feed these mostly working class kids who are nobody’s in society, then they put on there uniforms and know they have respect and purpose. poor saps we were all young and dumb once. then they kill or are killed a no win situation. what we have to do is shun the soldier!! i’m serious. that is the only way we will put an end to war! the madmen will always find good excuses for war and the ony way they can implement there plans is through our compliance. we have to say no! and make it known in our comunities that we do not support those in the millitary.

#71 sold out of cowtown on 03.24.09 at 7:35 pm

So after close to 8 years we’re still looking for Bin Laden, there was no WMD in Iraq and we’re still supposed to believe that 9/11 wasn’t an inside job?

Give me a break man, put on your own tin foil hat lol.

#72 dekethegeek on 03.24.09 at 7:40 pm

#60 Rory
“The next war will be about religion not economic”

Unfortunately I totally agree.

#73 Apocalypse Now on 03.24.09 at 8:00 pm

War is a business; young men, and women these days are the collateral damage. The deeper this economic crisis gets the greater the probability that there will be a greater war than the last great war. Sad though the prospect might be it is very probable that homecomings such as these will become commonplace.

As an aside the market went up cuz the BOC pumped 750 M into it not cuz investors were lined up to buy the toxic crap equities. It will be a miracle if the TSX finishes above 5000 this year. If you are a daytrader you may luck out and make a bundle; if you buy and hold what you will be left holding will be worth less than the paper it’s printed on.

#74 Dan on 03.24.09 at 8:44 pm

Hey Garth here is another sign that the Canadian housing crash http://www.RETV.ca . all you get now is “REtv.ca has discontinued service. Thanks for visiting.
Should you require information please contact [email protected]

I went to see what if any was new on RETV on TV and you get the same message. How bad is this housing crash going to get. I remember when all the US RE channels started to close down as the RE situation got worse.

#75 Johnny Five on 03.24.09 at 8:57 pm

To Everyone,

I am impressed with the passion people feel for the troops. Amazing. Truly amazing.

But I do want to relay something I read yesterday. And as a note, I have 14 years in the Forces.

It’s just Fox News.

Not like it means anything.

#76 Gord In Vancouver on 03.24.09 at 9:00 pm

More Proof That Garth Was Right:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/fp/story.html?id=1373406

Sorry folks, this is just the beginning………

#77 Herb on 03.24.09 at 9:40 pm

dekethegeek,

from what premises do you draw your conclusion at #61 that I propose to “let them all rot in their own Sh*T? Since they are the creators of their troubles”? Are they the creators of their own troubles, or have we helped create them for them? And I don’t recall telling you what I would do.

Yes, there are many countries in the world that cry out for intervention, so tell me why we have settled on Afghanistan? Afghans only “suppress” women; others circumcise them (I assume you know what that involves.) Personally, I would have gone for Darfur – innocent people do get killed over there – but we didn’t get invited, having neglected to “fix” the government. Lots of countries closer to home badly need peace, prosperity and democracy, such as Haiti. So why AFG?

And where do Rory (at #60) and you (at #71) get the advance notice that the next world war will be about religion? Yes, I know, neocons have told you so. The Global War on Terror hasn’t panned out, so one must escalate.

Here is hoping that saner heads will prevail in ordering the affairs of the world. With the odd recent lapse, they have so far.

#78 smwhite on 03.24.09 at 9:49 pm

#72 dekethegeek

Religion is the fog, economics are the reason.

#79 nonplused on 03.24.09 at 11:30 pm

“9-11 was an inside job.”

“Russia couldn’t handle Afghanistan.”

“Afghanistan is a CIA opium project.”

“The Vietnam war was about the oil the US knew was offshore.”

“The real reason for the Afghanistan war was so we could build a pipeline.”

Startling revelations, those.

Canada originally sent troops to Afghanistan to join the hunt for those responsible for 9-11. Seemed noble enough at the time, and the US had the sympathy of the world back then. It would have been “unfriendly” for Canada to have turned its back on our great friend to the south back then, given what was known. (Yes, the US is Canada’s friend. Only fools think something else. Hardly any 2 nations in the world are as interdependent as us and them.)

I also note that Canada did not and has not joined the other war in Iraq. That war did not have the sympathy of the world and Canada was justified in sitting that one out. But the original circumstances surrounding Afghanistan were markedly different, even if the original objectives have long since been satisfied and it’s time to come home now.

But regardless the fallibility of the decision makers in Ottawa, one should not find fault with our service men for carrying out duties that seemed sensible enough at the time, even if things didn’t work out. There is always lots of finger pointing to be done afterwards, like posters here had any idea what the right mission and troop strength should have been back then. Or like we have any idea what the consequences of pulling out will be now, especially with Pakistan in turmoil and all.

Support our troops and get Ottawa to spend more time thinking about whether they have them deployed properly. But the men and women of the forces are still heroes themselves, despite the fallibility of our elected leaders.

#80 Herb on 03.25.09 at 8:36 am

nonplused,

I don’t want to have the last word on this thread, but there are two things I would point out.

1. No one on here has knocked the troops!

2. Yes, knowledge is limited, and foresight uncertain. But there is an element to strategy – in fact, to action in any sphere – that can give amateur insight an advantage: the disregarding of extraneous factors. Get rid of extraneous influences (such as: What’s good for the CF? What will our US counterparts think?), focus on the actual issue and its real implications, and use or tailor your resources accordingly. You can’t do more than that in any situation, and you won’t lead yourself down the garden path through wishful thinking or persistence in error.

We blew this mission when we went from display of sympathy for the USA (which is what is was all about; they hardly needed a Canadian battalion to get rid of the Taliban), to “killing scumbags” (hard to identify, while collateral damage creates more), to the true “Mission Impossible” – hoisting Afghanistan into the 21st Century. All on the quick, cheap and dirty, of course.

It’s not the troops’ fault. They go where they’re shoved and do what their told.

#81 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.25.09 at 9:21 am

#68 Jake on 03.24.09 at 6:31 pm

I do not ‘love’ President Obama…I do greatly admire and respect him. Something I could not do with Bush. I hold ALL of them to the principles of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence. Those are documents my ancestor (George Mason) penned and they are what it means to be an American! I consider them to be like the Ten Commandments of Democracy.

As to President Obama, I have this to say. He inherited one of the worst messes in U.S. History and those who are looking for any reason to cut his throat or reputation this early are biased and no better than Fox News.

Eight long years of Redumblican administration left not only the U.S. but the world in chaos. Yes, they are the ones to BLAME! Their narcissistic, war mongering, ideology is the cause, and Harper is one of THEM!

The polarization that has occurred came about as the result of abuses on both the Left and the Right. But two WRONGS still do not make a right. Typical idiotic behaviour by politicians. Where are the true Statesmen?

Regarding your term ‘Redumblicrats’ I would have to largely agree. Now, what the Hell do we call the lot we have in Oddawahaha? Please name even one so-called ‘leader’ that inspires you as a Canadian? I cannot!

#82 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.25.09 at 9:27 am

#60 rory on 03.24.09 at 2:27 pm

So sorry to have raised your personal discomfort level by pointing out reality!

#83 Bill-Muskoka (NAM) on 03.25.09 at 1:06 pm

#78 smwhite on 03.24.09 at 9:49 pm

You have that right! Religion is derived from the Latin root ‘religio’ meaning to BIND!

The War Mongers know that once they get the Sheeple to believe their ‘version of God’ is the winning one, then send the troops in as cannon fodder.

#84 Too Old Bob$ on 03.25.09 at 2:59 pm

Today I turned on the Computer for my daily read at Garth’s site. Grabbed my lunch and proceeded to get caught up on the latest.
Started to watch the video and got such lump in my throat, I had to stop eating. Wow! what a feeling. Had to contain myself a bit. Such a loss. So young and yet seems senseless. No more details. A loss for words.
My best to their familys.

#85 dekethegeek on 03.25.09 at 8:04 pm

#80 Herb
Good points. Well said.

#86 Alex on 03.25.09 at 9:20 pm

I like this Canadian way to solve a problem: “Let’s move out of Afghan”. And what is next? Will Osama and millions of his followers drop the idea of Jihad?
No doubt, the way we are conducting this war is a dead end. I am suprised that neither American nor Canadian military command and political leadership has no courage to fight this way so we can win it. War is not a sport. Our goal must be to crash the enemy, and shock hundred of millions of the enemy supporters, not to have our weapons shining.

#87 Herb on 03.26.09 at 8:21 am

For those who think more combat troops are the solution, here is a summary of the Afghanistan problem – after nearly eight years of fighting:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/It's+not+our+war/1428607/story.html

And a stark historical reminder:

Doubling the effort was continually squaring the error.

(Robert Thompson, No Exit from Vietnam, London, 1969, p. 165.)