Shiller warns: ‘You are at risk’

THE CANADIAN PRESS (Oct. 1), NIAGARA-ON-THE-LAKE, Ont. _ Canada risks becoming even more entangled in
the American housing crisis and could see a similar bust in some of its more bubbly markets, a renowned U.S. economist said Wednesday.

Robert Shiller, a Yale University professor and co-creator of the Case-Shiller index of U.S. housing prices, said he believes the U.S. housing crisis stems in part from an investor culture “looking to make a quick buck,” motivated by people believing that home prices will constantly rise.

While Canada hasn’t had the same type of real estate bubble, Shiller said the country isn’t immune. Data show that “there have been booms in some Canadian cities _ Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver _ but that maybe things are weakening or actually falling, at least in the boom cities,” Shiller said during a speech at the Ontario Economic Summit.

“To me it would be surprising if Canada didn’t involve itself somewhat in the U.S. real estate bubble and subsequent burst. … Our two countries are remarkably similar, and so anything that happens in the U.S. must create risks for Canada as well.”

Canada has thus far fared better than the U.S. amid a volatile global economic environment spurred by a plunge in real estate prices and hundreds of billions of dollars of failed mortgage debt. But manufacturing provinces like Ontario have been severely hit as the Canadian slowdown that has been ongoing since the beginning of the year has worsened, dragged down by credit-starved companies scaling back projects and reining in growth estimates.

To Shiller, the proposed bailout plan for U.S. financial institutions provides a temporary solution, but he said the current financial crisis is also a key opportunity to make the fundamental changes needed to boost sagging economies on both sides of the border.

“Right now we’re talking about the short-run solution, but what I would really like to see is that we think about our financial institutions in a constructive and innovative way, thinking about the foundations of them,” he said. “We have a leaky roof and we’re fixing the roof, but after we fix the roof we should go and pay attention to the foundation.”

Those solutions include educating people about finances, improving financial institutions and creating markets that can react to risks more effectively, Shiller said. His comments come as the economy dominates both the federal election and the agenda at the Ontario legislature.

Several economists have forecast slow growth for Ontario into next year, while others provided fresh warnings this week about the health of the overall Canadian economy. TD economist Don Drummond, also speaking at the summit, said he was worried about Ontario’s prospects. While the country’s most populous province has so far avoided a recession, Drummond said there is no sharp rebound in sight, and both levels of government need to work together to turn things around.

“I’m worried about Ontario’s future; I think we need very dramatic and bold action on that,” Drummond said. “It will be unrealistic to think that tomorrow the (Ontario government) is going come around and do a complete policy about-turn _ and I don’t think that’s necessary. They can build on some of the pieces. But I think the starting point has to be … a debate to more actively involve people.”

Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory told the summit that the provincial government needs a change of attitude, noting that stakeholders he’s spoken to have repeatedly said the province must create an environment that’s “unabashedly welcoming and pro-investment.”

“There are things (Ontario Premier) Dalton McGuinty and his government could and should be doing to give Ontario a fighting chance in this incredibly challenging time,” Tory said. McGuinty has urged “prudence” through these uncertain times, and he has dismissed opposition critics who say the province should cut corporate taxes to lure investments.

He has repeatedly argued the province hasn’t been getting a fair deal from Ottawa and has asked party leaders to state their positions, before the Oct. 14 election, on the so-called “fairness” issue _ the fact that Ontario sends $20 billion more to Ottawa to help other provinces than it receives.

143 comments ↓

#1 Dave in Calgary on 10.01.08 at 3:47 pm

“We have a leaky roof and we’re fixing the roof, but after we fix the roof we should go and pay attention to the foundation.”

I don’t agree. I think the US has a leaky floor, and they’re trying to fix the roof.

#2 Calgary Rip off on 10.01.08 at 4:13 pm

Nice posts Garth.

This whole real estate mess would never have happened if homes’ values did not fluctuate with the market. If homes were one value, one price, all the time, this mess would never have occurred. It’s tragic that individuals took advantage of buying cheap houses with the low down crazy mortgages and drove prices up, essentially keeping those who should be entitled to buy, out of the market. There have been comments that Calgary is down a few percentage points. Unfortunately, that is off of a market value for homes which are priced DOUBLE what they are worth. So there really isnt any need for panic in Calgary. Unless homes are worth around what they were priced in 2000, its nothing to get excited about. More than likely there will be many realtors out of work. And hopefully gas goes back to cheap with oil being priced at $10/barrel. However, all of this is unlikely, as because the markets were run by a bunch of greedy lunatics, what will happen is unclear. A person is best off reading the National Enquirer as well as the Wall St. Journal. Both journals have about the same accuracy as foretelling what will happen next in the global economy. Things could be much worse. A person could live in central Africa and have to eat tree bark for food and drink muddy water from the local watering hole where persons also bathe. Hopefully the slime responsible for this mess can get housekeeping jobs in hotels scrubbing toilets and also act as servers at your local Burger King.

#3 y3maxx on 10.01.08 at 5:00 pm

“”Ontario sends $20 billion more to Ottawa to help other provinces than it receives.””

…It is sent to Quebec and the Atlantic Provinces.

Soon Western Canada will be sending $$$ to Ottawa to help out all of Eastern Canada.

…and Eastern Canada “Renters” want a total Real Estate collapse in Canada.

Careful what you wish for.

Western Canada should secede from Canada…we are the new “Centre of the Earth” of Canada and Vancouver is the capital city….the financing and shipping gateway to the Far East.

#4 kabloona on 10.01.08 at 5:28 pm

Here’s Flaherty’s take on the situation in the US (from CTV.ca):

Speaking to CTV’s Canada AM Wednesday, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Canada’s economy is in a much better state than that of the U.S. But he said the turmoil south of the border will have an impact here if the bailout doesn’t pass.

“We didn’t have a housing bubble in Canada, we don’t have a large sub-prime housing sector, but it’s important we get some relief in the credit markets because that has an effect eventually on the real economy,” Flaherty said.

“We need to have money flowing so that companies can borrow money, can expand, can invest. So the action that we expect will be taken by the Americans will be significant in the longer term for Canada.”

#5 Tickytac on 10.01.08 at 6:00 pm

y3maxx, Vancouver is special, you are right. It has always been a seedy, overpriced, pretentious, crime ridden drug port with delusions of being Toronto. But what do I know? I have only lived there my entire life. My prediction? Prices there will drop 20 or 30 percent, which will merely make prices unaffordable rather than suicidal. 1 million dollars for a box? No thanks.

#6 nonplused on 10.01.08 at 6:33 pm

Calgary Rip Off…

Are you suggesting that house prices should somehow be fixed? Maybe regulated by the government or something? The very thought of it shivers me timbers.

#7 dd on 10.01.08 at 6:39 pm

#2 Calgary Rip off,

What planet do you live on? You said “Hopefully gas goes back to cheap with oil being priced at $10/barrel.” Do you do any fundamental analysis of markets? Or do you live on a hope and a prayer?

Oil and gas it too cheap as it is. This little set back is actually a saving grace. The world will not consume as much O & G in the coming months. When the expansion gets going again (and it will) O & G prices will sky rocket. There is a supply squeeze happening long-term. When this happens coming recession will look minor.

The slime responsible for this mess is your neighbour or people like you that moved to this province and increased the rent and housing prices in the first place.

Stop blaming others and look at yourself for once.

#8 dd on 10.01.08 at 6:42 pm

#3 y3maxx,

First of all, Alberta has been sending payments to Ottawo for years.

Second, it is Calgary that is the centre of the new universe (not Vancouver).

#9 Calgary Rip off on 10.01.08 at 7:11 pm

Current Calgary Herald reports housing costs down a bit.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=c6af2d4f-b263-47f2-865b-26c9b74882b7

Whatever Mario. House prices are still DOUBLE what they are worth in Calgary. Consider in 2003 you could buy something decent, a lot of house for $280,000. That same house 2008 is $450,000. Thanks to the 0 forty plans, people that should be RENTING screwed it up for those who make enough to buy a house in normal circumstances. Time will tell if the market crashes completely. Trump is predicting $20/barrel oil. Look to the National Enquirer to really know what will happen next in the housing/whatever markets…

#10 Roger in Victoria on 10.01.08 at 8:22 pm

The September statistics for Victoria were released today. Inventory keeps climbing and sales are down from last year. Prices of single family homes (SFH) dropped for the fifth month in a row. Click on my name and see the slideshow story

#11 dotava on 10.01.08 at 8:29 pm

Bottom line is that we all who gain or loose this days have to thank Garth that he has courage to “say it” and just his “saying” helped that most likely Canada’s drop-zone will be at list bit softer.

#12 McSteve on 10.01.08 at 9:01 pm

Y3maxx:

ZZZZZZZ…huh? what? Did you say soemthing? ZZZ…ZZZZZ

#13 smwhite on 10.01.08 at 9:15 pm

#3 y3maxx,

Nobody is here wishing for anything, I like most prefer fact, unlike persons like yourself who enjoy a good fairy tale. Nothing more happening here than peps discussing the “little secret”, the one that burns your ass, the coming end of your tea party.

Your bashing of other Canadians make you come off as bitter and cranky because you “couldn’t” get in done when you lived back in “Eastern Canada”, let it go or take your Eastern Canadian bigotry else where.

Read Schiller’s book so you can understand why there is no justification in a housing bubble, anywhere.

XOXO

“Our two countries are remarkably similar, and so anything that happens in the U.S. must create risks for Canada as well.”

I think our markets in the last week have shown just how similar we are…

#14 dd on 10.01.08 at 9:30 pm

NYU Prof Nourial Roubini solution of this mess: great listen on what will happen if Fed doesn’t do this right.

http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vo98moYJ5zbY.asf

#15 $fromA$ia on 10.01.08 at 9:48 pm

Calgary Rip off.

The Government had no business manipulating affordability. When they repeatedly lowered the bar for purchasing, this is when the $hit hit the fan and now we are in a bubble. The average Joe doesn’t know what they can afford, the banks tell them what their maximum borrowing is allowed.

Get rid of Flaherty and those Neo Conservatives.

#16 $fromA$ia on 10.01.08 at 9:49 pm

Get rid of Flaherty and those Neo Conservatives OR Get rid of the average JOE.

The choice is simple.

#17 Rick on 10.01.08 at 10:17 pm

#3 y3maxx on 10.01.08 at 5:00 pm “”
Western Canada should secede from Canada…we are the new “Centre of the Earth” of Canada and Vancouver is the capital city….the financing and shipping gateway to the Far East.
—————————–
I would just be satisfied if we investigated, overhauled and tightened up our immigration policies a bit.

#18 ZK on 10.01.08 at 10:19 pm

Free car when you buy a house:
http://www.countrywidecar.ca/

#19 pjwlk on 10.01.08 at 10:34 pm

“Western Canada should secede from Canada…we are the new “Centre of the Earth” of Canada”

So typically western. You’re above everyone else in Canada right?

“Soon Western Canada will be sending $$$ to Ottawa to help out all of Eastern Canada.”

It’s been said that a society is judged by how it helps those who are less fortunate. I think it’s about time Western Canada helped out a little…

#20 JO on 10.01.08 at 10:47 pm

While I agree with some of Shiller’s positions, he still approves of the “bailout” in its current form, which shows he is still part of the mainstream when it comes to avoiding critizing his former academic collegue Bernanke. For anyone who has the wisdom to venture outside the mainstream media of CNN/Bloomberg/CNBC, etc, you will see that the majority of credeible economists (Roubini/Stiglitz, etc) and other respected contrarian analysts (and even former Treasury Secretary O’Neill) have screamed aloud about the disastrous structure of the current bailout. Most contrarians agree that even with a bailout, the US and global economies are likely to head into a hard time, so the way this bill is outlined and the enormous cost, it assures the benefit of very few and not Main Street. The spectacular misunderstanding, that some will say is not misunderstanding but something more sinister, of many in Senate and Congress is shocking. How can anyone support this current bill is beyond me. You want to help the US and global economy, simply review the many proposals put forth by the people who have a decent track record and who have not been CEO of a huge IB. Our housing market is and will continue to feel the impact and methinks for at least 4-5 years more. In fact, I saw McLeans cover yesterday…guess what, it shows the questionable state of Canada’s housing market on the front page. No government can prevent the forthcoming recession and housing decline (they are after all a NORMAL and HEALTHY part of the economic CYCLE – somthing that most politicians forget to mention when campaigning) but we can help mitigate some of the impact and create conditions for quicker and healthier recovery by following the tried and tested formula of healthy economies: Cut personal income, small business and corp income tax, manage our currency in reference to the value of gold or a basket of commodities and avoid a dramatic rise in value of the currenvy via management of base money, and also look at reducing payroll taxes. We need to look tightening the NHA underwriting standards and increase premiums, and look at reforming the CDIC deposit insurance to avoid moral hazard in the long run. Leverage capacity needs to be reduced in the long run to avoid this from happening again. Most people who borrowed excessively lived above their means and deserve what’s coming to them. Banks who made bad loans are and will suffer as they deserve too, and government loan insurance programs will likely incur heavier than expected losses as these programs badly distort markets. As usual, the innocent and prudent savers/depositors and others that live within their means are going to suffer the most through higher taxes in the long run, lower house values and stock values, and higher mortgage rates with lower investment rates.
JO

#21 CashMan on 10.02.08 at 12:06 am

Garth – when and how far do you see vacation properties in Ontario falling? I’m sitting on a pile of cash just waiting to swoop in.

#22 anonymous on 10.02.08 at 12:20 am

What is the best way to short Alberta? I was looking at buying auction-related stocks that primarily deal in the west, maybe short a western bank, etc. I don’t know.

Any of you have ideas?

Man, Alberta is heading for a worse crash than the 1980’s. There’s going to be a lot of angry $40K millionaires on the roads in the next couple years…

And not only will houses be cheaper to buy, but I’ll get the bastards to throw in the truck, boat, RV and that really nice jetski, too.

“Daddy, why is the man taking all our stuff?”

Ha ha, I’m such a prick.

#23 CalgaryRocks on 10.02.08 at 12:48 am

It’s been said that a society is judged by how it helps those who are less fortunate. I think it’s about time Western Canada helped out a little…
===================================

I’m pretty sure Western Canada already contributes to Canada more than a ‘little’?

#24 David on 10.02.08 at 1:05 am

Shiller wrote some very prescient articles and books a few years back on the tech bubble and the housing bubble. Nice of him to come up to Canada and all and make his comments. At this point he is pretty much like the people who show up at hockey games late in the third period and start asking you how is the team playing tonight.
Buying a house should not be a risky financial proposition for any of the respective parties. The bubble changed all that nonsensical thinking. Default risk, loss of equity risk, interest rate risk, market risk, job loss risk and so on. Our parents never had to contend with this when they bought a house. If all these risks and costs of home ownership were actually calculated in advance of sale today’s home prices would not pass the smell test. This idiotic real estate bubble benefited the few at the expense of the many.

#25 BBC on 10.02.08 at 1:07 am

Why does anyone bother responding to ‘y3maxx’…lets keep to comments that are informative and interesting.

#26 WetCoaster on 10.02.08 at 1:21 am

It’s been said that a society is judged by how it helps those who are less fortunate. I think it’s about time Western Canada helped out a little…

Pull yourself together, will you?

#27 Jen on 10.02.08 at 1:46 am

And just to add….. Lower The Property Tax!!! My mother who is almost 60, can not afford her property tax of $3000/annum. She has been widowed for over 25 years, worked as an RN. My husband and I are paying her property tax while trying to keep our family afloat. Please Please Please…It’s insane to think that you have to work you entire life to be thown out on the street. Oh, and no, she cannot sell the home and rent because guess what…..Rent would cost her a hell of alot more.

#28 Jerry Boyle on 10.02.08 at 3:02 am

With the federal vote fast approaching, I’d like to invite participation in a little electoral mischief.

The idea is to undermine Stephen Harper’s control over his image through creative vandalism, to rebrand him through a grassroots, viral and distributed stickering campaign.

I’ve created promo stickers combining Harper’s blandly psychotic face with micro-slogans pitched between intrigue and mockery. (“Dinosaurs don’t evolve” “Alberta Taliban” “Blue Sweater, Black Heart” etc.) Examples are on my Facebook wall, and can be downloaded from the link at the end of this message.

Participation is dead easy:

1. Download the 2 microsoft word files from the link at the end of this message. Each is a page of stickers.

2. Print the stickers on standard 4” x 3 1/3″ Avery inkjet labels (label ID# 05164, 6 per sheet, box of 100 sheets runs about $35)

3. If you want to get creative, download the original photoshop files and tweak the stickers to taste. If you’re inclined, you can make your new design available on the Facebook Group “Canadians United Against Steven Harper” under the Discussion Board Topic “Sticker Virus”

Please forward this message to anyone you think might be sympathetic. It’s a non-partisan effort motivated by a revulsion for Stephen Harper which transcends political affiliations.

Unlike Harper, most people can’t afford airtime for TV ads. This is a way almost anyone can get their message out for a very small cost. As one person, I doubt I can have much impact with 600 stickers. But if it caught on with say 2000 people? That’s 2000 x 600 doses of ridicule; 1.2 million cracks in Harper’s smooth and brittle facade.

————————-

Download files here:

http://tinyurl.com/stickers1

More details in FaceBook:

http://tinyurl.com/stickers2

#29 Kash is King on 10.02.08 at 7:15 am

#27 Jen: “Oh, and no, she cannot sell the home and rent because guess what…..Rent would cost her a hell of alot more”

Erm, well, how about take the proceeds from the sale of the house, place it in the most simple of investment instruments… a GIC, have the interest from that paid into her current account, and woola: it pays the rent!

#30 brazer on 10.02.08 at 7:25 am

Home sells on eBay for $1.75
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_on_fe_st/odd_cheap_home

With a winning bid of just $1.75, a Chicago woman has won an auction for an abandoned home in Saginaw. Joanne Smith, 30, recently was the top bidder for the home during an auction on eBay, The Saginaw News reported. Her bid was one of eight for the home.

#31 brazer on 10.02.08 at 8:15 am

America stares recession in the face
http://www.financialpost.com/news/story.html?id=853568

“There’s no downplaying these dismal results. And it is not just a U.S. concern,” Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Capital Markets said. He pointed out that manufacturing activity was also contracting in Europe, the U.S. and Japan, suggesting difficult times ahead for the global economy.

#32 CalgaryRocks on 10.02.08 at 8:45 am

And not only will houses be cheaper to buy, but I’ll get the bastards to throw in the truck, boat, RV and that really nice jetski, too.

“Daddy, why is the man taking all our stuff?”

Ha ha, I’m such a prick.
===================================

That would be great. I’m sure your mother is hoping that you move out of her basement at some point in the next 5 years. You da man!

#33 CalgaryRocks on 10.02.08 at 8:54 am

What is the best way to short Alberta? I was looking at buying auction-related stocks that primarily deal in the west, maybe short a western bank, etc. I don’t know.

Any of you have ideas?
====================================

My suggestion is to put on a pair trade. Short the company where you are currently employed and go long McDonald’s where you will be employed 6 months from now.

Unless McDonald’s is the company where you are currently employed, in which case, ha!ha! I’d like a Big Mac please!

#34 y3maxx on 10.02.08 at 9:01 am

U.S. Economist Nouriel Roubini on TVO Ontario television…April/08

Roubini predicted the financial and R E fallout more than a year ago and this interview has comparisons with Canada and with solutions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51SxmcaKJIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nCdLs7l4D4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmiBV3o80bk&feature=related

#35 y3maxx on 10.02.08 at 9:12 am

Roubini says Canada is “not” in the same sinking boat as is the U.S.

However Canadian commodity and manufactured goods prices will fall….

Not good for Ontario, Sask and Alberta.

Canada’s financial books are balanced.

Interest rates will drop.

jmo….Vancouver continues with $100’s of millions of Govt infrastructure investment and is the single gateway to the Far East.

I’m just laying out facts, you guys say I’m making it personal.

#36 Calgary_rip_off on 10.02.08 at 9:41 am

Garth,

Keep those posts coming.

I wish your party the best of luck in Alberta. Too many stuck up snots here that think oil is too cheap and that its all about oil. Calgary and Alberta will be a ghost town in 200 years. The land will be wrecked and the oil will be gone.

Hopefully your party gets in power. The conservatives(Harper) are Americans in disguise who need to be thrown out on their asses. There are no rent controls in Alberta and yet housing costs fluctuate. Here’s an idea for all the greedy flippers out there: Fixed housing costs. That’s right. NO market value, what you see is what you get, none of this paying double what the house is worth.

Its truly funny how many persons are in a bad spot in Alberta. Thats what they get for taking off more than they could chew. Maybe they should get a real job in healthcare or something that isnt affected by market trends. Healthcare, or, since they lack training, McDonalds or Burger King. :)

#37 Calgary_rip_off on 10.02.08 at 9:49 am

Mortgage defaults in Calgary: http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=6161b42b-a668-4fba-ae41-2735e2009cc1

“She said, curse you all, youll never learn!
When I leave theres no return.
The people laughed till she said, burn!
Warning came, no one cared.
Earth was shakin, we stood and stared.
When it came no one was spared.
Still I hear burn!

You know we had no time,
We could not even try.
You know we had no time.”(Deep Purple, BURN!!!)

#38 Will on 10.02.08 at 9:52 am

Any, politition, economist or other smuck who thinks Canada will not experience a real estate collapse needs to dig themselves a hole and jump in. Take a look around, manufacturing plants that have been providing stable, good paying jobs for decades are leaving in droves, those jobs are being replaced by “temporary” service sector jobs. When the dust settles, who will they be serving…China? Canadians have had a zereo or negative savings rate for at least 5 years The Canadian house of cards will collapse…and when it does it will be ugly and devistating. I don’t know how the government officials and economists that touted a soft landing will explain it. This generation of polititions and CEO’s is the most corrupt and greedy ever..they should be prosecuted for their frauds to the fullest extent of the law. This generation of consumers is the most greedy, stupid and self serving ever. People today just try and live in the now, and don’t think of the consequences of living beyond their means. I laugh at this stupidity and will laugh all the way to the bank when it all falls apart…because unlike most fools…I have saved money and will be able to capitalize on others losses. To me this is an oportunity of a lifetime.

#39 McSteve on 10.02.08 at 11:09 am

Today’s markets confuse me:

Commodities down, financials down, oil is down, industrials down – and even precious metals are down. Nothing I’ve been taught about the ebb and flow of capital makes sense. Let’s hope cash is king or nothing will make sense!

With all this and rising interest rates and tight capital markets, why would Real Estate be any different?

#40 Richmond Renter on 10.02.08 at 11:51 am

Here’s one way to make sure you don’t lose your “pre-sale” money.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/10/01/bc-surrey-spectacular-fire.html

#41 Richmond Renter on 10.02.08 at 12:08 pm

RE: my previous post in regards to the Surrey Fire last night: With the cost of homes dropping month-over-month here in BC, I’m afraid about other “condo” complexes closer to where I live. I have about 8 of them in my own backyard, still being built in various stages of completion. With suspicious fires on the rise (Specuvesters underwater perhaps??), I’m worried for my safety here.

#42 Arthur on 10.02.08 at 12:11 pm

So – in a way – I was lucky? I was trying to buy a 1 br apartment in Toronto – Yonge and Finch area – well – which was priced as 170,000 in 2006 and was selling at
190,000 in Jan 2007 – and we made an offer to one but somehow the seller changed mind and relisted the 1 br for 210,000! So I keep on renting.

#43 Arthur on 10.02.08 at 12:30 pm

An interesting thing – I noticed that the real agent in this area – her fancy office is gone. no where to be found
it had been here at least 5 years.

#44 Dave in Calgary on 10.02.08 at 12:31 pm

Calgary Rip Off

“Maybe they should get a real job in healthcare or something that isnt affected by market trends. ”

Something that isn’t affected by market trends? Have you gone off the deep end? Who the hell would pay your salary that you keep posting over and over again?

Are you suggesting that Jobs outside of the public feed-rough aren’t real? I think its the other way around considering it’s this free market economy which produces the tax revenues to pay you $80,000 a year.

Get a grip…

#45 Calgary_rip_off on 10.02.08 at 12:41 pm

Hi Dave.

Ever heard of unions? They are Canadian. That is how the healthcare system works here.

So the oil sector is entirely responsible for health care? Maybe. And maybe the market is responsible for oil prices. But both of things are unlikely, as the individuals running the markets have been thoroughly schooled by Donald Duck.

Here’s an idea: SOCIALISM. Screw the market. Do your job well and to your best because you care. What a concept. If everyone did this, there wouldnt be this mess today. It constantly amazes me how many people can get out of bed daily and put their underwear on correctly. Although judging by what I see every day many individuals have their underwear/panties/pants/whatever on BACKWARDS.

The nice thing about the market and the trends is that you can take it with you when you are dead. :)

#46 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 12:46 pm

# 38 Will

Well said. I could not agree more on all your points, especially the rampant greed and corruption of all people in any kind of power or with access to some one elses money!!!

I am also sitting on the sidline with cash in hand. Sold my last house in June of 2007 and have been renting ever since.

The last time the housing market was at its lowest was 96/97 and I was still in university. I watched my parents take a 25 % loss on their house to move way up to a house that was 50 % off of its 89 peak value. I learned and will get back in if and when it makes sense to do so. Even with a 25% drop in T.O. I can get a 600K house downtown for 450K, although I belive that the haicut will be more like 40 % to 50 %.

Like you said…. Opportunity of a lifetime…. Once in 80 years if my suspitions play out….

#47 smwhite on 10.02.08 at 1:06 pm

#24 David,

Actually Shiller’s second edition of Irrational Exuberance came out in 2005, and at that time Vancouver was touted as one of the worlds most bubbly cities(and is #1 at this stage), so Shiller’s been watching the whole game on TV all along, he just decided to come to the rink in the third to talk about the upcoming overtime period.

Never been a better time for arson in the real estate market!

#48 prairiegopher on 10.02.08 at 1:30 pm

I just read potash shares are tanking this morning based on the global slowdown and a drop in the demand for fertilizer. Farmers were optimistic this spring with the price of grains at record levels. So they thought it a good time to trade up for better equipment. If anyone has been following the price of farm equipment, not only is it painted green, but it costs a lot of green as well. With all the prices now falling on commodities, and they don’t even have the crop in the bin there could be alot of really good equipment for sale soon. If you guys in B.C. need some good combines for your ” Budding” harvest check the Western Producer.

#49 Jas on 10.02.08 at 1:53 pm

Overheated Real Estate in Surrey, BC !!
http://photoshare.shaw.ca/view/13550903-1222966779-65141/0

#50 Kestral on 10.02.08 at 2:26 pm

Has anyone noticed that our Canadian currency is getting slaughtered vs. the US currency? It’s now $1 USD = $1.08 CDN, this time last week, it was more like $1 USD = $1.035 CDN. What’s going on? Is the Bank of Canada turning our currency into toilet paper?

#51 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 2:58 pm

Time for some levity…. From a different blog

Ten ideas for the US government to stop this economic crisis in its tracks right now

1) Ban all stock sales. Only purchases are to be allowed from here on out

2) Offer to buy every home in the country for what last sucker paid, regardless of market value

3) Send everyone $10,000

4) Cancel income taxes for 2008 and 2009

5) Announce a default on the US debt held by foreigners

6) Ban gold ownership

7) Declare all opposition as enemy combatants

8) Nationalize Wal-Mart and cut prices another 50%

9) Mandate that all employers must raise wages 100% immediately

10) Declare the official language is now Swedish, and that underwear can only be worn on the outside

(yes, this is a joke. and so is our out-of-control, incompetent, corrupt and panicked government, who after doing NOTHING on the way up, now refuses to let the free market wash away its own excess on the way down)

#52 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 3:09 pm

Again from a different blog

Blodget predicts US housing fall of 40%, stock market crash of 50%, massive bank failures, trillions in losses, bottom not until 2010 earliest
Can’t say I disagree, even though I think there are many, many more surprises to come before we enter a New Great Depression. The Fed and the US government aren’t going down without a fight, in an attempt to put off the day of reckoning.

Here’s his post, in full. Read it and weep. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

Now that the government has been terrified into rubber-stamping the Wall Street bailout, what happens now?

I wish the news were better, but in opinion, here’s the most likely scenario:

* Hank Paulson & Co. survey the banking industry and decide who will stay and who will go. JP Morgan, Citi, Wells Fargo, and Bank of America will stay. Goldman will probably stay. Morgan Stanley might stay. Everyone else in trouble could go. The government doesn’t need to save all banks. It just needs to save some.

* Within a month or two, Paulson buys $250 billion of crap assets. He pays more than market value, but not an egregious amount more (because the public will be watching these early rounds). Over the next six months, he buys $700 billion of assets…and then he–or his successor–asks Congress for more money.

* Confidence improves modestly, but banks continue to hoard capital and credit markets stay tight. Loans stay expensive and hard to get. This keeps pressure on the economy.

* The credit crunch filters through to consumers: Credit cards, home equity loans, mortgages, car loans, etc., get more expensive, putting more pressure on consumers and forcing them to cut back further.

* The economic news continues to get worse: American consumers continue to pull back, housing continues to fall (as of July, the year over year declines were still accelerating), companies begin to cut back, which leads to layoffs–which puts more pressure on consumers.

* The global economy continues to weaken: Europe, Asia, and, eventually, emerging markets. This is already happen, and everyone else is later in the cycle than we are.

* The stock market continues to fall, as corporate earnings come under increasing pressure and hope for an early 2009 recovery fades. Analysts are still expecting huge growth in S&P 500 earnings for next year. These estimates will get cut by at least a third.

* The government enacts further measures to try to stop the fall in asset prices (stocks, houses)–including an expansion of the bailout plan–but these don’t work. Governments always try to do this. They never succeed. All they do is delay the inevitable.

* A new round of white-collar prosecutions send a new posse of corporate villains to jail. Some will be guilty. Some won’t. All will be hated.

* The government announces a new New Deal, finally investing in the country’s infrastructure, in the hopes that this will stimulate the economy (which it will). Investments include broadband, green tech, wireless, physical infrastructure, et al.

* Eventually, asset prices will bottom: Housing down 40% in real terms, the stock market down at least 50%. With luck, this will happen by early 2010, so the recovery can begin. Warren Buffett loads the boat with stocks, but by that time, most people are too depressed (and poor) to follow him.

* Unlike Japan, we finally force our banks to write down assets as far as they need to be written down…and then recapitalize them. This is what we should have done in the current bailout, but we’ll get it right next time (we hope).

* We gradually begin a long-term economic recovery, one in which consumers save a greater percentage of income, thrift and saving again become admirable qualities, we gradually begins to wean itself off international oil, and the bacchanalian decades of the 1990s and 2000s become an embarrassing memory.

* The stock market finally begins a new, long-term bull market, in which stocks once again return 10%+ per year. Unfortunately, most Americans will be so sickened by the stock losses they’ve sustained since 2000 that they’ll miss many years of it.

#53 cmh on 10.02.08 at 3:12 pm

#36 calgary ripoff
I am concerned by your posts. I also work in health care. I have been laid off “three times” in 27 years – first laid off in B.C. and had to go to Alberta, then Alberta laid me off and I ended up in California, then California laid me off and I wound up back in Canada. Health care is no more secure than any other profession and if governments deem it necessary, they will tighten their budgets and lay health care workers off.
Further, I am not a CEO or any part of management. However, I am a well educated professional (UBC and an advanced course from Stanford) and work in the front lines as a registered nurse. We are no less immune to layoffs than anyone else!
And to Ymaax, I was working in Vancouver when I first got laid off!!!!

#54 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 3:16 pm

Time for a different perspective….

DOW
52 week high 14198
Current 10527
Change – 26%

TSX:
52 week high 15154
Current 10979
Change – 28 %

It is different here eh? So why is it worse for our stock market this year? Hmmmm…..

#55 The Tallyman on 10.02.08 at 4:30 pm

Dream job.

I have the best job in Calgary.
I work in a bakery.
The boss repeatedly pushes my face in the dough…
to make animal cookies!

#56 Arthur on 10.02.08 at 4:31 pm

i really don’t know what ‘s going to happen – look at today TSX index! dropped almost 7 % again ! they say it’s because a company named potash! plus a “stupid report” from an analyst!

I don’t think so – we are going for a ride deep down and there won’t be any hope of recovering back in 3 years.

Oct 14, I m going to vote – No Mr. Harper!

#57 Rasputin on 10.02.08 at 4:41 pm

Hey Jerry Boyle… [email protected] This is a Real Estate board not a political opinions board. Make yourself useful and go play in the traffic.

#58 Future Expatriate on 10.02.08 at 5:06 pm

Brazer #30, did you see that shack?

Really horrifying thing is, it’s identical to many a “lovely character house” in Victoria or Vancouver whose clueless owners are trying to ask $400,000+ in a tanking market.

#59 Jen on 10.02.08 at 5:34 pm

Kash is King

Its not that simple. Raised 3 kids, one permenantly disabled (not much savings except life insurance). House value $130,000. Ontario has very high taxes and high rents. One bedroom is about $750.00. So she sells for full asking minus reality fees and invests as you say in a GIC yeilding the most at present on a one year 3.85%??? $122,000.00 @3.85% ($4697.00) So, you tell me…how does she pay rent and eat?? Is she suppose to live on $391.42? Not to mention she will probably live a few more years(say 25) so there goes everything. Are you asking her to give up everything she owns so she can pay her taxes?

#60 Jen on 10.02.08 at 5:44 pm

Oh and yes..I did spell permanently wrong. geez

#61 unbalanced on 10.02.08 at 5:57 pm

# 54 That was great. I’m laughing my head off ! Got any more face plants ?

#62 Shifty on 10.02.08 at 6:01 pm

Man, would I love to be a fly on the wall at Berkshire Hathaway Inc. No wonder the head carpet bagger is a pro vote for a bail out. Duhhh.

#63 Calgary rip off on 10.02.08 at 6:02 pm

CMH:

Interesting perspective. Critical thinking skills. Last time I checked, CHR is understaffed. Yes, lay offs in health care could occur in Calgary. And other jobs exist besides health care. Ive done them when I immigrated to Canada. Newspaper delivery. Housekeeping and laundry folding at a resort. No job is beneath me, therefore I will always have work. Unlike the people in their 50’s and 60’s at my work who always complain about their retirement and their vacations among other things, working in health care is truly fulfilling. My aim is to get my reports done immediately so there is no delay in patient care.

Therefore because I will always find something to do for work, work is just a way to put food on the table really and I do not recognize myself by what I do for work(titles are irrelevant) I truly hope that the homes in Calgary and Alberta are cut in half for what they worth because the essential services sector workers are priced out of home ownership. This ridiculousness needs to be put in the grave.

Another thing: Homes are tools to live in. Cars are tools to get things done. Hobbies are ways to improve intelligence.

Bottom line: You as an RN have no concerns really. Time has shown that you can obtain work again. Easily. I in fact have more concerns as I am a specialist. You are not. RN’s receive on the job training. I was expected to know my job before I arrived and I did. So your concerns are unfounded.

#64 Dave in Calgary on 10.02.08 at 6:20 pm

Calgary rip off,

Not to get into a shouting match, but I have heard of unions, but I really had no idea they were “Canadian”. My father was in the CAW for 31 years, building cars. However, it wasn’t “socialism”… GM actually had to compete in the free market and sell cars.

I have nothing against socialism, or spreading the wealth around. But someone has to generate the wealth, else socialism, as I beleive Churchill said, is just the equal distribution of poverty.

I am a huge supporter of healthcare. I support it both fundamentally and fiscally with my tax dollars that get taken out of the money my capitalist masters pay me. I don’t mind paying these taxes, I just don’t see how healthcare would get paid for without people working in the free market and paying for it all.

I also don’t see how house prices can be fixed. There are a lot of socialist countries in Europe, and none of them fix home values. You have a lot of good points but sometimes you sound like a quak… fixed home prices, oilsands being used to make just plastics, everyone should work in jobs paid for by taxes, canada should be like Sweden?

I mean, I really don’t know much, but I know a lot of what you think should happen in Canada is pretty goofy. And I am a pretty left leaning person…

#65 dd on 10.02.08 at 6:25 pm

For the US to get out of this recession the following has to take place:

1) Government has to choose which banks will survive and which ones will not. This is just the start because 200 + banks will fail in the states. Close up shop on the banks and get them out of the news

2) Government has to be shareholder (Yes the governement is now the largest shareholder)

3) Homeowners have to have their mortgages lowered to current / true value of house.

4) Increase depositors insurance

#66 dd on 10.02.08 at 6:30 pm

#51 POL-CAN,

Yes, it seem that might be the case. Hold on to your guts.

#67 Richmond Renter on 10.02.08 at 6:57 pm

Future Expatriate on 10.02.08 at 5:06 pm Brazer #30, did you see that shack?

Really horrifying thing is, it’s identical to many a “lovely character house” in Victoria or Vancouver whose clueless owners are trying to ask $400,000+ in a tanking market.

That shack is actually a million dollar house in Vancouver! If you can find one for around 400k let me know!

#68 Richmond Renter on 10.02.08 at 7:00 pm

http://mlsr.realtylink.org/mlsrframes/res_sale_result_detail.cfm?region=1&area=9999&subarea=9999&pt=5&mnprc=800000&mxprc=1000000&mnbd=2&mxbd=2&mnbt=0&mxbt=9&mnage=0&mxage=99&ltsz=0&sqft=sizeAll&mxrw=5&PTAR=Vancouver%20West&CID=1025898&SCTP=MAP&AIDL=21,22,23,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,39,40,41,42,43,44,10105,853&BCD=GV&ERTA=True&TMPL=1&MLS=V737137

#69 Richmond Renter on 10.02.08 at 7:02 pm

http://mlsr.realtylink.org/mlsrframes/res_sale_result_detail.cfm?region=1&area=9999&subarea=9999&pt=5&mnprc=800000&mxprc=2000000&mnbd=2&mxbd=3&mnbt=0&mxbt=9&mnage=0&mxage=99&ltsz=0&sqft=sizeAll&mxrw=5&PTAR=Vancouver%20West&CID=1025898&SCTP=MAP&AIDL=21,22,23,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,39,40,41,42,43,44,10105,853&BCD=GV&ERTA=True&TMPL=1&MLS=V728080

#70 brazer on 10.02.08 at 7:13 pm

TSX closes 813 points down
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/510214

The S&P/TSX Composite Index lost 813.97 points or about 7 per cent to close at 10,900.54, marking its biggest drop since Oct. 25, 2000. The TSX has now fallen 27.68 per cent from its June 18 record high, pushing it deeper into bear market territory.

#71 brazer on 10.02.08 at 7:15 pm

Canada braces as auto sales crash
http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/391876

“If conditions don’t change, there will be a lot of blood on the floor here very soon,” Gerald Fedchun, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association, warned last night after seeing the latest gloomy U.S. sales numbers.

#72 Roger in Victoria on 10.02.08 at 7:23 pm

Garth,

Your predictions are coming true on Vancouver Island. The real estate board, VIREB, released the September sales stats today and prices are dropping fast Up Island in Parksville, Qualicum, Comox Valley, Nanaimo etc. You can see the stats and an analysis by clicking on my name.

#73 dd on 10.02.08 at 7:42 pm

Fun facts .. graph of the 1930s Dow

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/index.cfm?event=showavgDecades&decade=1930

#74 dd on 10.02.08 at 7:50 pm

Wow … prices are really starting to come down in CowTown.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7463538

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7460502

#75 Rick on 10.02.08 at 9:14 pm

#44 Dave in Calgary on 10.02.08 at 12:31 pm Calgary Rip Off

“Maybe they should get a real job in healthcare or something that isnt affected by market trends. ”

Something that isn’t affected by market trends? Have you gone off the deep end? Who the hell would pay your salary that you keep posting over and over again?

Are you suggesting that Jobs outside of the public feed-rough aren’t real? I think its the other way around considering it’s this free market economy which produces the tax revenues to pay you $80,000 a year.

Get a grip…
————
I used to believe the same rhetoric before I became a public sector employee myself 2 1/2 yrs ago. Now I work harder for considerably less money than I made in the private sector. Why? Because, unlike those of you in the private sector, I don’t have to;
a)react like an idiot to the whims of incompetent
managers.
b)not have my job unduly and unfairly influenced by the fellow whos feet are consistently seen sticking out from under the bosses desk
c)enjoy consistant hours and standard work shifts, not disrupted by the business owner who thinks his employees should devote thier lives to thier jobs, just like he/she does

I could go on, I think my point is made. Thanks for reading this absolutely irrelevant post on this blog.

#76 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 9:25 pm

#74 dd

Here is what 299 K gets you in Toronto :)

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7480539

#77 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 9:55 pm

Some more friendly advise for Wall Street in light of the proposed bailout…..

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JNlxgs6qm2M/SOMaxp7DC2I/AAAAAAAACLE/jhQXCTgsnMU/s1600-h/jump.jpeg

#78 Rick on 10.02.08 at 10:26 pm

#54 The Tallyman on 10.02.08 at 4:30 pm Dream job.

I have the best job in Calgary.
I work in a bakery.
The boss repeatedly pushes my face in the dough…
to make animal cookies!
————
Too funny. I am entirely afraid to ask which animal.

#79 Rick on 10.02.08 at 10:31 pm

#56 Rasputin on 10.02.08 at 4:41 pm Hey Jerry Boyle… [email protected] This is a Real Estate board not a political opinions board. Make yourself useful and go play in the traffic.
——————-
Personally, I am grateful that Mr Turner doesn’t censor like most bloggers do. If you want to participate in group think, there are more blogs than not able to accomodate you. Who *really* is the dumbass?

#80 Rick on 10.02.08 at 10:36 pm

63 Dave in Calgary on 10.02.08 at 6:20 pm Calgary rip off,
……snippage……..
also don’t see how house prices can be fixed.
……final snippage

——————

House prices HAVE been fixed, hence the reason we are in this predicament.

#81 Rick on 10.02.08 at 10:43 pm

#71 Roger in Victoria on 10.02.08 at 7:23 pm Garth,

Your predictions are coming true on Vancouver Island. The real estate board, VIREB, released the September sales stats today and prices are dropping fast Up Island in Parksville, Qualicum, Comox Valley, Nanaimo etc. You can see the stats and an analysis by clicking on my name.
———————–
I’m in Qualicum all the time, the girlfriend lives there. There is a heck of a lot less for sale signs in that town than other island villages. In my opinion it is because to the high percentage of well to do retirees somewhat impervious to current economics Possibly Qualicum Beach, having the best golf course on the island helps too?

#82 dd on 10.02.08 at 11:53 pm

75 POL-CAN,

Wow … and right at main and central. Is the TO market overpriced?

#83 dd on 10.03.08 at 12:29 am

The Latest with Buffet:

http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/10/01/1/an-exclusive-conversation-with-warren-buffett

#84 The Tallyman on 10.03.08 at 12:32 am

#58 Jen,

$3000 in tax is robbery.
Sensible people who worked hard and payed off their home should not be facing this kind of tax burden in their twilight years.

Especially when you consider most seniors earned/saved that money in lean times before god created yuppy.

If a senior is playing house flipper, then by all means
full market value & taxes should apply.

But for non flipping seniors I’d like to see parliament enact a bill that would completely eliminate property taxation when they turn 60

Seniors deserve a fair shake.

#85 The Tallyman on 10.03.08 at 12:50 am

#76 Pol-Can

Jump you ffers…
————————

Maybe I should send them a copy of my new book:

“Out on A Ledger… Suicidal Accounting For Dummies”

#86 patriotz on 10.03.08 at 12:59 am

“Vancouver is the capital city….the financing and shipping gateway to the Far East.”

Would that be the same Vancouver where prices are dropping faster than any US city?

http://langley-financial-planning.blogspot.com/

#87 patriotz on 10.03.08 at 1:24 am

“I’m in Qualicum all the time, the girlfriend lives there. There is a heck of a lot less for sale signs in that town than other island villages.”

Guess you weren’t looking very hard. realtor.ca shows 340 properties for sale in Qualicum. Quite a lot for a town of less than 10,000 wouldn’t you say?

#88 David on 10.03.08 at 2:46 am

In the market place of ideas, this was not a good week for laissez faire free market fundamentalism economics. No amount of left wing agitation can compete with watching one’s RRSP values shrivel in just a few days. An 800 plus point slide on the TSX equals about $100 billion worth of wealth destruction.
Really, who wants to hear some rethermalised American nonsense about the wonders of unregulated financial markets these days, when people are at risk of losing their jobs and possibly their homes and retirement savings? I decided to vote strategically for the first time in my life in the upcoming election and it won’t be for Harper.
Shiller did make some good points, agreed. He showed up at the end of the party and really at this point, it is about handling the clean up.

#89 dotava on 10.03.08 at 9:09 am

#50 POL-CAN on 10.02.08 at 2:58 pm

In your example Sweden looks like bad thing – but just to let you know that they are building there system for decades and reach get richer, middle class get wealthier and number of poor souls decreasing – what bring crime down and make the country one of the best place to live. They didn’t choose “quick buck” approach to reap other people understanding simple thing -> if you rip someone in you line of work – be ready to be ripped on every your step too (housing, car, food … just name it).

#90 POL-CAN on 10.03.08 at 9:16 am

#81 dd

Yes it is safe to say that prices in T.O. are overpriced. It is not nearly as bad as in Vancouver though. That place went nuts and the correction will be huge imo.

In T.O. 40 % to 50 % would get us back to the 2001 levels.

#91 POL-CAN on 10.03.08 at 9:19 am

#84 The Tallyman

Let me know if you are interested… I can get the gf to do the graphics for the cover of said book lol

Who knows…. Maybe it would sell as well as Gath’s Greater Fool?

#92 vg on 10.03.08 at 10:57 am

TO: #86 David

“I decided to vote strategically for the first time in my life in the upcoming election and it won’t be for Harper.”

It is interesting – who will you vote for?

#93 kc on 10.03.08 at 11:26 am

As harper says…. Canada’s finacial’s are sound due to prudent investings….. ummmm CIBC gets a cash injection of $1B+ ….. I say we are being lied to….

full story >>>

http://www.financialpost.com/news/story.html?id=858227

#94 JohnnyK on 10.03.08 at 12:04 pm

The next 24-36 months will probably result in some significant job losses in Canada, the U.S. and their trading partners. With Canadas overwhelmingly commodity based economy, the car industry in huge trouble, and expected losses that will occcur in the manufacturing sectors that tag along and will be more pressured by less trade with Europe and Asia, I suspect that many will lose their jobs.
Bottom line ……….the success or failure of any economy is about job creation and future jobs let alone keeping yours It is about what lies ahead and confidence in the future. No job, you better have some savings or they will take your house away for 0.65 on the loonie. That is what happened here in the U.S. and is now it is difficult to stop a downward spiral freefall because liquidity has dried up and even banks are not lending amongst themselves. Sure, I have read over and over how Canada is different. Once house prices drop 20% accross Canada and Toronto, it will be interesting to see the Bank of Canada react and the balance sheets of Canadian banks will need to write down Canadian asset investments. So far the trouble with some like CIBC has been with subprime, but as real estate prices decline and they will, there will be more surprises as Canadian run for the hills.
I have been living in the U.S. for 10 years and 90% of politicians and economist here were leading America down a dangerous path over the last 8 years and painting an Amercian dream along the way. The so called bailout is just smoke and mirrors, because someone will eventually have to pay. You cannot consume more than you produce.
Canada just followed along and lucky for Canada oil prices skyrocketed.I find the majority of Canadians whom I know are ignorant about the U.S. and are smug about it but they have lived in a lala land dreamworld, both politically and economically.
Good luck to Harpy. Unless he cuts the rediculously high tax rates in Canada in his next budget, and if oil does not go back to $150.00, look out Canada, this will be a major recession for all Canadians, unlike you have ever witnessed. I wish you well.

#95 Bassmaster on 10.03.08 at 12:16 pm

Well, even Toronto Real Estate Board President is announcing the price has dropped in the GTA area:

October 3, 2008 — The Greater Toronto Area resale housing market continued at a measured pace through September, Toronto Real Estate Board President Maureen O’Neill announced today.

With 6,424 homes changing hands last month, activity in the GTA declined six per cent compared to the 6,866 sales that took place in September 2007 and declined three per cent compared to the 6,622 transactions that were recorded two years ago.

In the City of Toronto sales were less robust. The 2,546 transactions recorded last month declined 11 per cent from the 2,854 sales in September 2007 and declined five per cent from the 2,680 sales recorded in September 2006. Sales increased six per cent between September 2006 and September 2007.

“We remain concerned about the Land Transfer Tax in the City of Toronto,” said Ms. O’Neill.

In the 905 Region, the 3,878 sales recorded last month were within three per cent of September 2007’s 4,012 transactions, and within two per cent of September 2006’s 3,942 sales. Sales in this region increased two per cent between September 2006 and September 2007.

From a year-to-date perspective, the GTA resale housing market has declined 14 per cent from the 73,827 transactions recorded a year ago. To date, there have been 63,595 sales through the TorontoMLS system this year. In the City of Toronto year-to-date sales have declined 16 per cent from last year’s figure of 30,059 to 25,257 transactions this year. In the 905 Region year-todate sales have declined 12 per cent. So far this year there have been 38,338 sales in the 905

Region compared to 43,768 last year. Prices throughout the GTA however, have remained fairly stable. At $368,549, the average price of a GTA home in September has declined three per cent from $380,132 recorded a year ago.

In the City of Toronto, the current average price of $393,647 declined six per cent from the September 2007 average of $420,182. Compared to the September 2006 average of $371,682 though, prices in Toronto for September 2008 have increased six per cent.

In the 905 Region, the average price of $352,071, increased marginally from the $351,641 recorded in September 2007, and was up five per cent from 2006 September average of $333,818.

“Although the market is not as robust as it was a year ago, homeowners are continuing to see strong returns on their investment,” said Ms. O’Neill. “On average, Sellers are achieving 97 per cent of their asking price.

With the average number of days on market increasing to 36 days from to 31 days a year ago, it is taking slightly longer for homeowners to achieve a sale.

“Even with respect to sales activity, each month we continue to see a handful of neighbourhoods reporting increases compared to a year ago.”

In Scarborough East (E08) transactions increased 22 per cent compared to September 2007 based on strong sales of all housing types.

Streetsville (W19) saw an 11 per cent sales increase due primarily to strong detached home sales.

In Newmarket (N07) transactions increased 11 per cent compared to a year ago, driven mainly by strong condominium townhouse sales.

“Given that these are trying times for the world economy, in context, the Greater Toronto Area resale housing market continues to fare quite well,” said Ms. O’Neill. “From a long-term perspective, buying a home remains a sound financial decision.”

#96 Peter on 10.03.08 at 1:04 pm

Edmonton’s done…

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/business/index.html

#97 MissTheBoat on 10.03.08 at 1:05 pm

GTA House Prices Fall

http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/article/511235

#98 The Other David on 10.03.08 at 1:16 pm

the spin is over

The city of Toronto was hit even harder, with average prices falling six per cent to $393,647 from 2007’s $420,182 according to the board.

http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/article/511235

#99 POL-CAN on 10.03.08 at 1:23 pm

#87 dotava

That post was meant as a joke :)

As my “name” indicates I am a Polish-Canadian and am very familiar with the good and bad of capitalism/socialism having lived in countries with both systems.

I would love to see Canada become more like some european countries like Denmark for example. We pay enough in taxes to expect the same or similar perks. Free tuition, full pay mat leave for 2 years, free daycare, an efficient health care system, etc. should not be out of reach for us.

As I stated in a post earlier we need to reduce income taxes (flat rate), and increase consumption taxes. those that can will continue to spend. Those that can not will at least have enough money to conver their basic needs like shelter, clothing, and food.

Not so sure about corporate taxes though… We want to bring in more business not get rid of what we already have. The bottom like is we need business that actually produces something. Creates jobs and a trade surplus. The service economy is dead as it can not be sustained. We can not all be management, nor can we all work as waiters or retail clerks.

No more Wall Street and Bay Street parasitic financial foolishness…. That did not work out so well…. No more outsourcing over seas to save a few $$ only in the short term. And finally, we need to get rid of the greed and corruption that is everywhere these days….

sorry for yet another rant….

#100 brazer on 10.03.08 at 1:28 pm

Flaherty says ‘tragic’ consequences of U.S. crisis in won’t befall Cdn home owners
http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/03102008/2/biz-finance-flaherty-says-tragic-consequences-u-s-crisis-won.html

“Speaking to students at the University of Western Ontario in London, Flaherty says Canadians can afford the mortgages they have and adds the domestic housing market is stable.

i won’t ask whether you agree with minister, garth.

#101 U.B.A.B. on 10.03.08 at 1:28 pm

It’s Spreading … (The Toronto Star )

GTA house prices fall

Tony Wong
October 03, 2008

Housing prices in the Greater Toronto Area market fell for the first time in more than a decade, down by 3 per cent from year ago levels, according to figures released today.

Average existing home prices dropped to $368,549 in September, from the $380,132 recorded in the same month last year, according to the Toronto Real Estate Board.

The city of Toronto was hit even harder, with average prices falling six per cent to $393,647 from 2007’s $420,182 according to the board.

In August, prices in the city of Toronto fell for the first time by a slight 1 per cent, but this is the first time that a decline has been registered in the overall Greater Toronto Area that includes the 905 suburbs.

“Due to the current turmoil in the Canadian stock market, which is so important to the GTA economy, there has been a sharp rise in uncertainty in the financial sector and related industries,” said housing analyst Will Dunning today. “We should expect sales to slow further during the next few months.”

Sales were also down from last year in the Toronto area by about six per cent, according to the board. It is also taking longer to sell a home, from an average of 31 days on the market to 36 days.

There is also much more product for buyers to choose from, with active listings up by 27 per cent from last year.

The city of Toronto had a bigger slowdown in transactions, with sales down 11 per cent compared to a decrease of only 3 per cent in the suburbs.

Realtors have blamed a controversial city of Toronto land transfer tax that took effect this year for being an added disincentive for purchasers.

“We remain concerned about the land transfer tax in the city of Toronto,” said board president Maureen O’Neill in a statement.

O’Neill cautioned that the figures should be put in perspective since 2007 was a record year.

“Although the market was not as robust as a year ago, homeowners are continuing to see strong returns on their investment,” she said.

Meanwhile, analyst Dunning warned that “sellers shouldn’t expect to attract the same prices as were possible as late last year — they will be more like 2006 and early 2007 levels.”

#102 jelly on 10.03.08 at 2:14 pm

Tallyman and Jen,

Regarding senior that cannot make ends meet.
I think it’s a frigging sin to allow hard working
elderly stress out and have worse quality of
life as they age.
Those that are extremely low income for whatever reason should be let off for property tax-pretty sure
they have paid freaking enough money to the government their whole lives!
It makes me sick that injustices like that go on all the time-all in the name of a greedy government.

#103 cmh on 10.03.08 at 3:38 pm

Calgary Rip Off,
Well, as a ” specialist” – a pedantic one at that – you won’t have problems finding work elsewhere either!
After all they need “specialists” everywhere – and as a “specialist” you can certainly “afford” Calgary home prices as they are currently a lot more easily than people like me who are just merely “trained on the job”.

#104 Keith in Calgary on 10.03.08 at 3:52 pm

Don’t get me wrong, I am a conservative and that will never change.

But Flaherty is an idiot and an utter joke as our finance minister.

#105 The Other David on 10.03.08 at 4:09 pm

#96 it would be nice to know if that strange spike was due to people trying to catch the 0 down, 40 yrs before the Oct cutoff in a few days, or if just stupidity.

#106 Peter in TO on 10.03.08 at 4:23 pm

Garth,

I know that this site is not to be about politics but why haven’t the liberals attacked Harper on his 0% down?

Harper is saying one thing about the US yet he did the equivalent in Canada.

Is this country insane?

#107 The Tallyman on 10.03.08 at 4:57 pm

#84 POL-CAN
“Let me know if you are interested… I can get the gf to do the graphics for the cover of said book lol”
——————
Aw, I’m just an idea guy. No book!
“Out on A Ledger… Suicidal Accounting For Dummies”
remains a figment of my warped mind.

You write er pol-can. and take no prisoners!!!

#108 The Tallyman on 10.03.08 at 5:04 pm

Harper on Tv in New Brunswick.

Did you notice Harper was standing in front of a tool crib that displayed hammers, tool belt, drill, etc.

Wonder what that means?
a) Harper has the tools to do the job
b) Harper is a tool
c) Harper is not the sharpest tool in the crib

#109 Dave in Calgary on 10.03.08 at 5:33 pm

Rick

c)enjoy consistant hours and standard work shifts, not disrupted by the business owner who thinks his employees should devote thier lives to thier jobs, just like he/she does

Yeah, that sure does suck when your consitant, easy day gets distrupted by some guy who wants to make money. Better just to eat out of the public trough and tell your boss to quit harrassing you when he comes to your office and tells you to stop playing solitaire.

I also worked as a civil servant. See opinion above.

Anyway, there can only be so many people eating out of the public trough, as there has to be a certain number of people shoveling their wealth into it. Unless you want to move to Cuba, that’s just the way it is.

I have no problem paying into the public feed trough, so long as the people eating out of it are doing society a benefit, and realizing that they are “overhead” and that someone is losing a lot of their paycheque to fund them. (And yes I realize that part of your salary is taken from you too and put back in the feed trough… kinda like a cow chewing its cud)

#110 Dr Phil, you can call me Uncle on 10.03.08 at 5:38 pm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/02/MNR813AHDN.DTL&tsp=1

The wall street bailout package has some extremely relevant tax breaks for the American people in this time of dire crisis. The US Senate has some of the smartest minds in the world!

As the US economy tumbles, this new bailout package will make it bearable with the $192M Tax break on specific Puerto Rican and Virgin Island based rum producers, in turn will result in lower cost rum for the American consumer. Cheap Rum! Drown your sorrows away!

$2M towards a wooden arrow producer in Oregon, a tremendous step forward towards the war on terror, not to mention a more environmentally friendly solution. I wonder whether Chaney’s old company Haliburton is playing a part in this?

$100M for Nascar… Hey got to keep all those southern folks entertained.

$33M for business squirreling profits away in American Samoa….

Most important of all, the Wall Street bankers can finally go ahead with their X’mas shopping. All those personal shoppers will be tripping over each other trying to secure the latest ’09 Ferraris and Lamborghinis before this year’s inventory allocation is all sold out.

#111 dd on 10.03.08 at 5:52 pm

94 JohnnyK,

Yes, Canada will be hit hard. Unless China and India pick up in commodities purchasing there will be hard times in Canada. The world has to consume more if this is the case. However, with the US consuming 20% of the worlds output in a good year … this will not be the case going forward.

#112 Kestral on 10.03.08 at 6:49 pm

Assuming that property taxes are about 2% of the value of your home, when you pay them for 25 years, you’ve basically given the government half your house. And if you live in the same home for 50 years, you’ve given the government your entire house.

#113 David on 10.03.08 at 6:52 pm

VG, this is probably the first election in ages where I have actually paid much attention. This is an election where there are real issues that matter. I am actually paying attention to the policy proposals being put forth and what kind of Canada I want not just for myself, but my children also.
So to tell you the truth honestly, I am going to be a first time last minute Liberal voter this election for purely pragmatic and strategic reasons. I know all the yadda yadda about Stephane Dion lack of charisma that gets bandied about. Mike Pearson with his bow ties and driving his Rambler to the House of Commons lacked charisma and was an uncomfortable politician on the hustings, he turned out to be good Prime Minister. Dion is intelligent and thoughtful if that is important. If I really need the thing called charisma, I can go watch some tent and sawdust trail evangelist acting as the voice of prophecy.
To his credit, Dion is making arrangements to deal with the post financial bubble Canada and has said so repeatedly during the past weeks. The message has taken on more urgency now that so many Canadians are watching so much wealth destruction at home and in the USA and just about everywhere else for that matter. Stephen Harper’s free market fundamentals palaver is just so incongruent with what is happening in the real world right now. There is no repository of collective wisdom in that great abstraction known as the FREE MARKET.
Watching a supine US Congress today, saddle its citizens with $700 billion worth of putrid Wall Street financial offal made me REALLY want it to be different in Canada. That $700 billion could have provided universal health care coverage to every American citizen for 7 years to use one small example. When greed fails, the invisible hand bitch slaps the taxpayer.

#114 Shifty on 10.03.08 at 7:11 pm

BARRIE MCKENNA

From Friday’s Globe and Mail

* E-mail Barrie McKenna
* | Read Bio
* | Latest Columns

October 3, 2008 at 3:44 AM EDT

WASHINGTON — Wall Street’s implosion has diverted attention from another grim reality: The powerful U.S. economy is gearing down, and fast.

Car sales are falling off a cliff, unemployment is spiking and the housing market is still struggling to find a bottom. Now, one of the last pockets of strength – manufacturing – appears to have joined the downward spiral.

U.S. factory orders tumbled a much larger-than-expected 4 per cent in August, with virtually every sector showing weakness, according to a report yesterday. It marked the steepest decline in two years, and it reversed five months of increased manufacturing activity.

Hope that the $700-billion (U.S.) bank rescue would somehow stave off a recession has given way to the sobering realization that, with or without the bailout, the real economy is in trouble. Billionaire investor Warren Buffett has likened the U.S. plight to “an economic Pearl Harbor.”

#115 POL-CAN on 10.03.08 at 8:06 pm

Found the link to this on another housing blog. Worth a look as it shows just how bad the foreclousure crisis is in Cali….

http://corgiguy.gohds.net/?ch=1.0.143.0.SOCAL:FORECLOSURE-ALLEY.

#116 dotava on 10.03.08 at 9:14 pm

#64 Dave in Calgary on 10.02.08 at 6:20 pm

What Churchill said was almost century ago and most likely he was right – but that is the same if you say “my grandfather ride the horse – I do not need the car”.

#117 dotava on 10.03.08 at 9:36 pm

#99 POL-CAN on 10.03.08 at 1:23 pm

My friend what you live there wasn’t socialism (bean there too). That was the prices that Poland unfortunately pay for cold war and unfortunately paying again (just different rider).

#118 Rick on 10.03.08 at 9:40 pm

#109 Dave – You are a bitter fool who knows not what he speaks. BTW, I don’t work in an office nor do I play cards. Your childish analogies are representative of YOUR moral standard, don’t try to project them on others.

#119 Rick on 10.03.08 at 9:48 pm

#75 Rick on 10.02.08 at 9:14 pm
b)not have my job unduly and unfairly influenced by the fellow whos feet are consistently seen sticking out from under the bosses desk
—————
Dave, I almost forgot, pull those feet completely under the bosses desk before your co-workers trip over them.

#120 dotava on 10.03.08 at 9:54 pm

#102 jelly on 10.03.08 at 2:14 pm

Couldn’t agree more -> country who do not respect seniors – doesn’t have history and country that do not take care about there childrens doesn’t have a future either. Unfortunately we are on that path.

#121 dotava on 10.03.08 at 10:00 pm

#103 cmh on 10.03.08 at 3:38 pm

Get the point – he/she didn’t say that can’t afford – just that is not good time to buy – simple as that. Also – I am glad that we have intelligent “specialist” as her/him since most definitely one day sooner or later We/I will get in there hands.

#122 brazer on 10.03.08 at 10:24 pm

GTA house prices fall
http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/article/511235

“Average existing home prices dropped to $368,549 in September, from the $380,132 recorded in the same month last year, according to the Toronto Real Estate Board.

The city of Toronto was hit even harder, with average prices falling six per cent to $393,647 from 2007’s $420,182 according to the board.”

the sky is falling.

#123 dotava on 10.03.08 at 10:25 pm

#108 The Tallyman on 10.03.08 at 5:04 pm

Please help is it b) or c) – a) is out of the question – we Canadians are not that dull. :-)

ABC

#124 Richmond Renter on 10.03.08 at 11:23 pm

This is by far the most disturbing video i’ve seen so far from the US housing crash. “The American Dream thrown into the dumpster” This video will jolt your senses.

http://corgiguy.gohds.net/?ch=1.0.143.0.SOCAL:FORECLOSURE-ALLEY

#125 CalgaryRocks on 10.04.08 at 12:03 am

Assuming that property taxes are about 2% of the value of your home, when you pay them for 25 years, you’ve basically given the government half your hous
==================================

That’s nothing. Think about how much income tax you will be paying in 25 years. How many houses would that buy? At least 3 or 4.

No one escapes property taxes, not even renters. But the good news is that Calgary’s tax rate is way lower than 1%. Since property taxes are spent in my city they are the ones I feel best paying. Hell, they dug up my whole street last summer to redo the water system.

#126 islander on 10.04.08 at 1:25 am

Calgary ripoff wrote:

“This whole real estate mess would never have happened if homes’ values did not fluctuate with the market. If homes were one value, one price, all the time, this mess would never have occurred.”

Where do you get this stuff? Are you a Trotskyite or a recent University grad? My jaw is on the floor with your economic nincompoopery.

#127 Mark on 10.04.08 at 3:02 am

@#100:

Quoting : “http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/03102008/2/biz-finance-flaherty-says-tragic-consequences-u-s-crisis-won.html”

Well according to this guy, people in canada havent over borrowed and CAN afford their mortgages.

In that case, there must be a HELL of a lot of people in Vancouver who earn 250k a year jobs!

If the economy and housing was so stable (as harper keeps saying) – why did he need to give $12 billion to the banks (to encourage them to keep loaning money) today?

#128 Khumari on 10.04.08 at 3:51 am

However in September 2008, in TO-West for
semi-detached houses we’ve seen price increases were excellent:

Oakville- avg.price $509,212/2007—$641,699/2008
Burlington- avg.price $386,513/2007-$504,963/2008
Brampton East- avg.price $386,913/2007—– $428,484/2008
Mississauga North-avg.price $466,095/2007—– $478,476/2008

#129 hal5001 on 10.04.08 at 3:58 am

The Bush bookends, Collapse of the World Trade Center and the Collapse of World Trade.

#130 Khumari on 10.04.08 at 4:07 am

I can’t see any problem about RE Market in Brampton East, Mississauga North,Malton,Burlington,Oakville…
Prices are still going up, and untill you talking about RE Crash ,in Oakville and Burlington avg.prices for detach houses are up about 140K, from last year.
Most of you are idiots. So where is the Crash in Halton and Peel Region?

#131 Khumari on 10.04.08 at 4:13 am

However in September 2008, in TO-West for
detached houses we’ve seen price increases were excellent:

Oakville- avg.price $509,212/2007—$641,699/2008
Burlington- avg.price $386,513/2007-$504,963/2008
Brampton East- avg.price $386,913/2007—– $428,484/2008
Mississauga North-avg.price $466,095/2007—– $478,476/2008

#132 y3maxx on 10.04.08 at 7:00 am

To all my friendly critics…..I told you so…

“”On the other side of the current malaise is a likely resumption in rising global demand for Canadian commodities, with some forecasters anticipating a rebound in crude oil, for instance, to as much as $150 a barrel a few years’ hence. Asian and South Asian demand for infrastructure materials and engineers – which has shown resilience even in these difficult times – is forecast to resume significant growth as early as 2010.

Canada will be relatively cushioned as it makes the transition through a rough period of economic weakness in our largest trading partner. Homeowners haven’t lost 25 per cent and 50 per cent of their home equity. Employment is stable or growing in most sectors, export-oriented manufacturing and forestry being notable exceptions. And as the only G-8 nation with successive federal budget surpluses over the past decade, Canada is much better equipped to provide fiscal stimulus if the economy does stumble badly.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/511760

#133 BOB on 10.04.08 at 7:27 am

Peter in TO #106

Do you realise that Harper has a minority government? For the PC party to pass the 0 % down legislation it had to be voted in by a majority which means that the Liberals or NDP voted with them. Also are you trying to tell us that the Liberals and NDP wouldn’t of introduced the 0% down? Especially the NDP they would of made it 0% down with a 100 year amortiaztion!

#134 Princess on 10.04.08 at 12:18 pm

#112- Please check your facts. In places like the GTA, property taxes on a house are around 1%.

Here are some examples

Toronto
0.874922%
Milton
0.943257%
Caledon
1.003437%
Mississauga
1.034762%
Vaughan
1.044722%
Oakville
1.045711%
Markham
1.049877%
Richmond Hill
1.056079%
Halton Hills
1.060970%
Whitchurch-Stouffville
1.066489%
Burlington
1.107980%
King
1.108059%
East Gwillimbury
1.143715%
Brampton
1.244053%
Uxbridge
1.295688

#135 dboy on 10.04.08 at 12:49 pm

There has also been a run on home equity loans over the past few years. Up from around 45 billion in 2001 to 150 billion today.

This was one of the route causes of the UK housing collapse, seeing such banks as the Halifax, Bradford and Bingley fall into serious trouble.

Having been in the centre of the Vancouver housing bubble, I can only say thank-god that prices may well come back to earth. You can’t even find anywhere to rent anymore, since no one can afford to buy. Occupancy rate is the lowest in the country.

#136 mike on 10.04.08 at 12:57 pm

David #113 Once again you have aptly captured the situation down south with colourful vernacular. Not only could the 700B (realistically triple that when all is said and done) be spent on healthcare it could have been used to build infrastructure as was done during the 30s, dams, bridges, roads, schools, maybe teach ethics in investment banking. The final outcome is so George W and Goldman Sachs, bloated and deceitful.
Great post David.

#137 Missed The Boat on 10.04.08 at 1:59 pm

Interesting:

MONTREAL, TORONTO AND CALGARY — Rick Lafleur is walking away from his home in Windsor, Ont., unable to renew his mortgage. Customers won’t even talk to Newfoundland manufacturer Lorne Janes as their lenders tighten the screws. New Brunswick Finance Minister Victor Boudreau fears a budget deficit may be inevitable as a collapsing stock market whacks government pension funds and the province’s export-driven economy falters further.

Across the country, even in the seemingly unsinkable resource towns of the Prairies, the grim prospect of a U.S.-led global recession and credit crunch has exited the abstract realm of the financial markets and landed with a thud on the kitchen tables of average Canadians.

In most parts of the country, house prices are flat or falling – they were down 6 per cent in the city of Toronto in September over the previous year – and down with them is the net worth of millions of debt-loaded consumers. They are in poor financial shape to weather an economic downturn that is already forcing some financial institutions to review the creditworthiness of existing borrowers.

Central Canada’s manufacturing sector, already reeling from about 400,000 job losses since 2003, is bracing for an even bloodier downturn than was expected only a few weeks ago. But it is hardly alone in its misery, as evidence mounted this week that the commodity price boom that has fuelled some provincial economies and filled government coffers is out of gas.

Read the whole article here:

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081004.weconomy04/BNStory/Business/home

#138 Trekie2 on 10.04.08 at 2:12 pm

#130 Khumari on 10.04.08 at 4:07 am

What’s the matter? Not selling houses like you used too?
Not that many fools anymore?

Your RE days are over and your upset?

#139 David on 10.04.08 at 6:09 pm

“Peter in TO #106

Do you realise that Harper has a minority government? For the PC party to pass the 0 % down legislation it had to be voted in by a majority which means that the Liberals or NDP voted with them. Also are you trying to tell us that the Liberals and NDP wouldn’t of introduced the 0% down? Especially the NDP they would of made it 0% down with a 100 year amortiaztion”

Don’t you dare pin the 40 year nothing down mortgage on the NDP. You must be a CON . I am a true conservative as Garth is IMO. The CONservative in power (Harper) is anything but conservative. When will you conservatives wake up that Harper is a CON? Harper will distory Canada. Wake up the CONs think you are stupid and laugh behide close doors. Harper is NOT a ture conservative .

#140 Kestral on 10.05.08 at 12:13 am

Ok, so in 20 years the government basically takes one fifth of the value of your home in taxes. Death by hundreds of thousands of papercuts.

#141 Dave Jones on 10.05.08 at 11:25 pm

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LJAwj47SXhY/SOluyX08hDI/AAAAAAAAAJU/d9SqpjyaPfA/s1600-h/image.png

Here’s my technical analysis for central Vancouver Island. The average price has broken the strong uptrend line for the 1st time in 5-6 years. The West Coast housing bear has begun (summer 2008) & my price target for central VI is $250,000 (50% fibonacci retracement of the ’01 lows & ’08 highs).

#142 Dave in Calgary on 10.06.08 at 12:10 pm

Rick:
“Dave, I almost forgot, pull those feet completely under the bosses desk before your co-workers trip over them.”

Haha… and my analogies are childish eh? Lol…

I saw more of this working as a civil servant in Ottawa with the Temp secretaries trying to get on to full time contracts than I’ve ever seen in my office. We’re too busy working.

#143 The Tallyman on 10.06.08 at 6:43 pm

We’re Different in Canada!

Taking swift action on a tip picked up in Moose Jaw, sweaterman sells all his Bre-X stock to financialman.
When asked why he made such a brash move, sweaterman tells BNN reporter…
“I figured I had better slide my assets into something safer… before the herd panics!
Canadian Tire money can only go up”

Meanwhile back at his office in Ottawa…
Flaherty stashes his newly acquired stock certificates in the wall safe behind the Elmer Fudd painting.
“Your ship’s come in old boy…
You’ll never have to work a second job stunt doubling for a garden gnome… Ever again!!!”