Working people

It’s been three whole days since the minimum wage soared in Ontario by 21%, to $14. Twelve months away, in the unlikely event Libs still rule the joint, it goes up another 7%. The lefties running Alberta have also pledged to raise the bar there to $15. The logic is that all ‘working people’ need enough income to get by, even when a job may require no skills, training, education or full-time commitment. It’s a way for politicians to try and create a universal income and get someone else to pay for it – like the poor guy running a donut shop.

You may have heard the story.

A couple of Ron Joyce’s kids (he’s the guy who took over Tim Horton’s from some old hockey player) are the new face of resistance. They own a few company franchises east of Toronto and this week told employees they’ll get less because the minimum wage is bloating. Fewer benefits. Less paid time off. No paid breaks. Here is the notice:

Mean-spirited? Maybe. But do we really want to be penalizing all the Tim Horton’s owners (most shops are independently-run small businesses) who collectively hire hundreds of thousands of young people for their fist jobs? What’s the point? So the kids can go and buy condos?

Meanwhile the Bank of Canada – the dudes who create money, set rates and worry about the economy – has just delivered a withering report on this minimum wage mess. The cost by 2019, it says, will be 60,000 fewer jobs, even while the people left working will be making a bit more. In addition, consumer prices (inflation) will be higher because of the wage increase, with the size of the economy shrinking by an equal amount.

So how many people are we talking about?

Across the country, 8% of the workforce is at minimum wage. Most of the jobs are entry-level, unskilled or part-time, but provide on-location training as well as that all-important asset of experience. Min-wage workers form the backbone of the food service industry, for example, where margins are often thin because of rising location rents and extended hours. Forcing a 29% increase in labour costs on small biz owners over two years is nothing short of extreme. There will be consequences, as the central bankers warn. Sixty thousand people will go from employed to unemployed. And prices rise.

Will existing workers who have been above minimum wage now expect increases? Are consumers, shouldering epic, historic levels of debt, willing to shell out more for their apple fritters, dry cleaning and groceries? Or will they buy less? Will more families like the Joyces nickel-and-dime their workers to recoup increased overhead? Do the lefties understand that on top of the $15 bosses must pay a 16-year-old who knows nothing there are employer CPP and EI premiums? Sometimes workplace insurance? Do you really want your basement-dwelling teenaged spawn to be replaced by a barcode-reading scanner?

Concurrently that same guy with the corner grocery store or the pizza joint owner who employs min-wage delivery kids can no longer (as of Sunday) split business income with a spouse – increasing his tax load. In a few weeks there may be more grief in the latest T2 budget, delivered by a millionaire finance minister with a billionaire wife – both of whom inherited money from family businesses (pensions and potatoes).

And what will be the predictable response on this pathetic blog? Probably more references to the injustice of the .001% who successfully run multi-national corps, making millions in compensation. The rich vs the rest. It’s the mantra of a failed crop of leaders whose policies have encouraged spending and debt while penalizing savings and investment. The politics of envy and division. The results are clear enough. Inflated houses. Extreme borrowing. Unrealistic expectations. And now, fewer entry jobs, higher prices, slower growth.

You do not build anyone up by tearing others down. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me.

413 comments ↓

#1 For those about to flop... on 01.03.18 at 5:54 pm

#121 Smartalox on 01.03.18 at 2:51 pm

What this table is attempting to show is that in August 2017, the total YTD sales were running 32% behind what they were by August in 2016. But then sales picked up considerably, in September (total down 26%) and October (total down 25%), and December (total down 21%), presumably as the threat of B20, and interest rate rises stoked the fears of ‘missing out’

////////////////////////

Hey Smartie,although I only track a small percentage of the market my Pink Folder basically followed the same trend.

My mind did not instantly go to interest rates or B20 as I more looked at how some of them had been trying to sell since late 2016 and I just thought that they had decided enough was enough and did not see things getting better for them in Spring 2018 with fresh inventory.

Perhaps also not surprising is that at this time with a bit of seasonal hibernation going on is that this is the biggest number of listings in my folder that have been taken off the market after failing to reach a deal ,for a lot of them they were on the market most of last year.

Some of the heavy hitters are most likely paying out 25k a month…

M43AZ

#2 kirill on 01.03.18 at 5:57 pm

Trump looks pretty good now, doesn’t he?

#3 For those about to flop... on 01.03.18 at 6:01 pm

Minimum wage in Arizona ticked over to 10.50 Usd on New Years Day…

M43AZ

#4 N on 01.03.18 at 6:01 pm

Why can’t the consumers bear the brunt of the min wage increase instead of the workers?

#5 Leo Trollstoy on 01.03.18 at 6:02 pm

Keep hiking the minimum wage boys and girls!

HAhahahaha

#6 Ian on 01.03.18 at 6:02 pm

This is amazing you hit on this Garth, because my cousin works at Tim’s and was told his hours will be cut back starting this year because of this.

Ontario PCs will win in May and that increase at the end of the year won’t happen, thank heaven. I’m glad BoC said what they did. Ontario is hanging on by a thread thanks to 15 years of Liberal government, and minimum wage hikes will destroy employment.

UltraBlues to the rescue in May!!!

#7 Jungle on 01.03.18 at 6:05 pm

What your letter didn’t say is whether they are jacking up prices. You bet they are, in addition to reducing staff and might have opportunity to increase profit

increase labour costs will be passed to the customer.

I’ve already noticed many food items gone up 15-20 at the grocery store, and metro said cashier will be replaced by machine.

middle and upper class pays for this, because our pay is not going up 20% – not business owner.

timbits please, glad you’re paying as they’re about to get more expensive.

Prices are usually set by the franchisor, not the franchisee. – Garth

#8 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:06 pm

I knew Garth would post about this today. I just knew it. Couldn’t wait.

The billionaire Ron Joyce family are taking away benefits from their poor TFW slaves.

Here’s the article.

Tim Hortons heirs cut paid breaks and worker benefits after minimum wage hike, employees say
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-horton-s-tims-timmies-doubledouble-minimum-wage-ontario-kathleen-wynne-labour-1.4470215?cmp=rss

My favourite quote.

“Employees say the owners of the franchises are at their winter home in Florida.”

Ahh yes the hard life of a billionaire heiress, wintering in Florida, having to take away the benefits of the poor plebs because god forbid they get paid a living wage.

This is exactly who conservatives fight for. All day everyday.

What happened Garth? I thought we had a labour shortage SO SEVERE that we have to import hundreds of thousands of Temporary Foreign Workers, not to mention 350,000 immigrants every year? Now you’re complaining about rising wages? It’s almost like it was a lie.

The Ron Joyce family, the owners of that franchise, are worth $1.2 billion. I thought the wealth trickles down?

It’s almost like all of conservative corporatist ideology is a lie.

Kind of ironic that today conservatives are complaining about higher wages for Canadian workers, when just yesterday they were defending this:

Canada’s top CEOs earn 200 times an average worker’s salary: report
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ceo-income-pay-canadian-worker-1.4462496

What a scam. I honestly don’t know how you people live with yourselves.

The couple run two Timmies in southern Ontario. The overall company has not been family-owned for years. Playing the rich-vs-the-rest card to obfuscate the issue is exactly what I expected of you. Thanks for the stereotype. You’re amusing, if tedious. – Garth

#9 Mark on 01.03.18 at 6:07 pm

The employer in this instance needs to be very careful as to schedule breaks in such a way that there is no expectation that the staff, due to an uptick in business, will be able to work on such break. Otherwise its really not a true ‘break’ and upon complaint, the Ministry will likely rule in the employee’s favour when it comes to unpaid wages if a break schedule cannot be produced and adhered to. The employer is treading on real thin ice here, not to mention destroying employee morale.

The memo speaks to a certain entitlement to profit, or a certain entitlement to ‘help’ from the government. Tim Hortons franchises in established areas traditionally have offered quite a handsome return on equity for their owners, a high return that has generally proven to be rather recession-proof. The attitude of the business owner is unfortunate, that they feel perpetually entitled to a high return on their investment as though there should never be a downturn in their particular industry. Owners of large Canadian business, such as those who own TSX index funds, for instance, have been forced to accept only minimal returns in the past decade and all but the most mediocre Tim Hortons franchisees have handsomely outperformed the TSX in terms of ROI.

Small business, especially successful (and taxable) small business needs a diversification plan, as advocated by Garth in this blog in the personal finance context. Instead of shoveling the profits from one Tim Hortons franchise to start another, why not add some index funds to the portfolio? Owning a Tim Hortons or similar franchise would be like owning a substantial chunk of a portfolio in a single small cap stock — if a Tim Hortons franchise were a publicly traded security, we’d have no problem telling such franchisee that there will be severe ups and downs throughout their ownership of the asset. But for some reason, because its a “small business”, many of the rules of risk exposure and diversification seem to go out the door. Which is really unfortunate because small business owners, perhaps even more so than the general public, need the benefits that come with diversification, particularly in structures that are external to their business. Bill Morneau, IMHO, is on the right track to enhance the lifetime financial security of small business owners by punishing small business owners who hoard excess capital in a small business rather than moving such to shelters external to the liability of the small business.

#10 Pathcontrolmonk on 01.03.18 at 6:07 pm

The Bank of Canada did not say the result by 2019 “will be 60,000 fewer jobs.” They said, “could be 60,000 fewer jobs.” It’s like when you buy a 6/49 ticket, you don’t say, “I will be rich!”

Central banks chose words carefully. The report speaks volumes. – Garth

#11 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:10 pm

I’ll gladly bet anyone here that Ontario will GAIN jobs, not lose jobs this year.

And to the idiots who say “but price increases will eat up all the wage gains”, I’ll gladly bet you anything you want that Ontario will not have 21% inflation this year.

Money is on the table. Any of you man enough to take it? Of course not because you know you’re lying.

#12 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:13 pm

The US are already way ahead of us on this.

Job growth picks up in states that raised minimum wage
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/19/job-growth-picks-up-in-states-that-raised-minimum-wage.html

“WASHINGTON – Maybe a higher minimum wage isn’t so bad for job growth after all.”

That’s Fox News.

Minimum wage increases are ‘supercharging’ economy, says U.S. multimillionaire
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/minimum-wage-increases-are-supercharging-economy-says-u-s-multimillionaire-1.3124917

Minimum Wage Increases for 18 States in 2018
https://www.inc.com/huffington-post/minimum-wage-changes-new-law-2018.html

#13 Sean on 01.03.18 at 6:15 pm

Very, very good post Garth. Why does this even have to be explained? Why does our education system fail so badly that people support this nonsense?

And to answer an earlier poster, why don’t consumers pay instead of workers? Seriously? Consumers ARE workers! Workers ARE consumers! Where do people think the money is going to come from?

#14 Terry on 01.03.18 at 6:15 pm

The heading on the letter “Dear Team Members”

“Team Members” what a bunch of crap! Hey Corporate Canada…… find someone else to hoodwink with your “Team Members” or Team Players garbage talk! Go micro-manage your businesses somewhere else!

#15 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:16 pm

Central banks chose words carefully. The report speaks volumes. – Garth

Like when Poloz said should people should work for free? While he gets paid a fortune on the taxpayer’s dime. What a joke.

“Could be”. LOL. The report is worthless. I can’t wait for a year for now. What will you be saying then?

Here’s a sneak preview to what a chart of employment will look like in Ontario.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SEAT653NA

#16 Arctic Outback on 01.03.18 at 6:16 pm

Increasing minimum wage was necessary but the drastic spike with little notice was ill advised by Wynnes desperate vote-seeking Liberals. The OHIP plus also screams vote grabbing, and will also have unintended consequences.

#17 BClowerwages on 01.03.18 at 6:17 pm

How will the wage increases affect the belfountain general store?

Only slaves are used. All good. – Garth

#18 Kreditanstalt on 01.03.18 at 6:17 pm

“…8% of the workforce is at minimum wage.”

Perhaps this should be clarified: 8% of that portion of the workforce currently holding a job are at minimum wage.

Redundant, no? – Garth

#19 The Canadian Way on 01.03.18 at 6:18 pm

Hey but didn’t ya’ll know???

That’s the Canadian way! Rather than run a tighter ship, cut costs, reduce the cost of living (ahem…housing), get government/pubic sector largess under control, it has always been the Canadian way to throw more money at the problem!!! Yes that’s the solution!!! Find more ways to screw members of the private sector into the wall by taxing the daylights out of them and having them pay more and more fees/salaries. Gee that will make us competitive.

Brutal.

#20 TRON on 01.03.18 at 6:19 pm

How does a huge green financial institution making $$$$Billions in profits quarterly keep customers holding an hour and a half to make a trade? Is it possible that those earning the executive bonuses are unable to lift a phone and help with the backlog?

Maybe I’m just living in a fantasy world where customers are the foundation of every business.

#21 Debtslavecreator on 01.03.18 at 6:21 pm

I have worked at min wage for a few years and it was the best motivation to finish my schooling and getvup the ladder
These radical tried and failed neo liberal junk left policies are destroying society – as the economy steadily deteriorates in a vicious stagflationary depression and loss of freedoms it will be too late for many in this country to save themselves from the stupid voting and stupid financial decisions they made
Worse yet the large millennial generation has for the most part been brainwashed by radical left wing academics and as this generation progresses into political leadership the risk of an outright Marxist government is real
We are essentially there now with JT but if Jag wins it will get even worse
Call us Canadzuela because that’s what we are on the way to becoming
Socialism is dying and creditors WILL pull the plug – it’s a question of when not if
The sooner the better. If regulations, taxes, big government is the answer then before voting for these criminals your fellow Canuck clearly lacks critical thinking skills. A quick study of history and the European situation would show big government is always and everywhere a great destroyer of freedom and wealth
I want to be optimistic but I am quite scared for the next 5-10 years
Why are we moving left towards societal hari Kari ?

#22 Mean Gene on 01.03.18 at 6:22 pm

Most of the product being produced by the retail food service industry is unhealthy and has a social cost.

I think back to day…. waayyyy back in the 70s and how little people ate out, no drive thru windows or coffee shops on 4 street corners ect; at least here in Metro Vancouver.

Teenagers should be focused on their studies not working a micky mouse job selling crap food.

Then again, people also socked away savings for their retirements ect, so maybe in a round about way this is a good thing. Time will tell.

#23 Trump_over_hussein on 01.03.18 at 6:25 pm

Where have all the trump bashers gone?

#24 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:28 pm

The couple run two Timmies in southern Ontario. The overall company has not been family-owned for years. Playing the rich-vs-the-rest card to obfuscate the issue is exactly what I expected of you. Thanks for the stereotype. You’re amusing, if tedious. – Garth

—————-

Garth, they’re wintering in Florida while taking away benefits from their TFW slaves.

How can you defend this?

This particular couple is the heir to the Tim Hortons family fortune. Says it right there in the CBC headline.

Tim Hortons heirs cut paid breaks and worker benefits after minimum wage hike, employees say
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-horton-s-tims-timmies-doubledouble-minimum-wage-ontario-kathleen-wynne-labour-1.4470215?cmp=rss

How in the world can you possibly claim there’s a labour shortage in this country so severe that we have to import hundreds of thousands of TFW slaves, and then turn around and complain about wages? It doesn’t make any sense and you know it. Just be honest about that. It’s a scam to replace Canadian workers and/or suppress their wages.

What’s tedious is all these wealthy elites sitting on piles of cash, complaining about to have a pay a decent wage to all the people actually doing all the work.

This system is sick man.

Ron Joyce has donated more to Canada, charitably, that you can dream of. Watch your tongue. – Garth

#25 The real Kip on 01.03.18 at 6:28 pm

What a load of garbage coming from rich business owners and this pathetic blog. Time for a union at Tim Hortons and they’ll pay $15/hr plus pay for breaks!

#26 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:31 pm

Guys if we raise the minimum wage, the unemployment rate might fall to 4% like it did in Seattle. Can you imagine the horror? Workers might have leverage in a tight labour market. Can’t let that happen!

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SEAT653URN

What happens to all that extra money that WORKERS are earning? That’s right, it goes right back into the economy. THEY SPEND IT.

They’re not wintering in Florida, or buying private islands or hoarding money offshore.

#27 jSS on 01.03.18 at 6:31 pm

I support JT for what he’s doing. He seems to be a nice person, who wants to help the middle class. Not just the rich.

He’s going to be our PM for a long, long time. Better get used to it.

#28 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:33 pm

Google Ron Joyce to see how much they’re worth.

Tim Hortons Heirs Roasted After Blaming New Minimum Wage for Benefit Cuts
This is not going well.
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/7xe48a/tim-hortons-heirs-are-getting-roasted-after-blaming-new-minimum-wage-for-benefit-cuts

#29 None on 01.03.18 at 6:33 pm

This is ridiculous. Minimum wage is still below what it was in the ‘good ol days’ after being adjusted for inflation.

What’s the matter if donuts need to go up $0.10 each so employees don’t have to rely on government assistance to make ends meet. I’m sick and tired of so much corporate welfare.

#30 millmech on 01.03.18 at 6:34 pm

#8 SCM
Friends daughter works at a plant that got no coffee breaks, just unpaid lunch breaks. The workers negotiated two paid lunch breaks of ten minutes, the cost was that the workers pay their own medical, no more short or long term disability and 2% pension match by company removed(they can still put money in plan)
He said they were so proud that they could negotiate a better deal for themselves. Couldn’t believe the cost of twenty minutes was all that, but now that they have no benefits to pay for so they are probably ecstatic about the raise they got. Stick it to the man, lol!

#31 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:34 pm

Ron Joyce has donated more to Canada, charitably, that you can dream of. Watch your tongue. – Garth

——————–

Good then his heirs can afford to pay their workers a decent wage and benefits right?

I was told the wealth trickles down.

I am watching my tongue, Mr. Turner.

#32 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:37 pm

I’ll leave it there for today Garth, I don’t wanna tick you off.

Happy New Year. You should be happy that your fellow countrymen who are working hard and just trying to scrape by, are making just a little bit more, still not even enough to cover the basic necessities of life.

I don’t know why you always take such an anti-worker, position.

#33 AGuyInVancouver on 01.03.18 at 6:37 pm

..But do we really want to be penalizing all the Tim Horton’s owners (most shops are independently-run small businesses) who collectively hire hundreds of thousands of young people for their fist jobs? What’s the point? So the kids can go and buy condos?..
_ _ _

Are things that really different in ON? Most of the Timmie Ho workers here are either Temporary Foreign Workers or recent immigrants. Local teens want jobs with a little more cachet, like Starbucks.

Of course, rather than take it out on their employees, they could just raise Double Double prices by 50 cents. In Vancouver so many entry level retail jobs went begging this past holiday season that I doubt Tim’s is going to find much interest from jobseekers if they go down that road.

#34 bring_it_on on 01.03.18 at 6:37 pm

I realize that this minimum wage jump seems like a HUGE year-to-year increase for small businesses (it is completely disingenuous to report it as a percentage increase over a one-year period…see below), and is tough to swallow. However, perhaps if the increase in minimum wage had been done in a more incremental way over the past decade it would not seem like such a shocker now. In particular, for BC the minimum wage was fixed during Gordon Campbell’s (awful) reign at $8.00 per hour from May 1, 2001 until May 1, 2011 when it jumped to the lofty sum of $8.75 per hour. I am sure that the conservatives were overjoyed having a full decade where the bottom members of the labour force were fixed at 8.00 per hour, while rents, user-fees, and other costs were skyrocketing in Vancouver. Take a look at the link for other provinces

http://srv116.services.gc.ca/dimt-wid/sm-mw/rpt2.aspx

Perhaps now we are witnessing a little catch-up period…..

#35 Kreditanstalt on 01.03.18 at 6:40 pm

Prices and wages are NOT set based on “how much employees need”, the “rate of inflation”, How much “experience”, training or education they have, what is “fair”, how “hard” the job may be, how wealthy the employer is or how much money others are getting.

Prices and wages are set by CUSTOMERS…or the lack thereof…

And they’re set by customers EVEN IF government threatens violence to rig wages at artificial levels via “minimum wages”.

THAT is why jobs will be lost.

#36 Zapstrap on 01.03.18 at 6:43 pm

Well then … I’m not working there.

#37 Penny Henny on 01.03.18 at 6:45 pm

Do the lefties understand that on top of the $15 bosses must pay a 16-year-old who knows nothing there are employer CPP and EI premiums? -GT

You may be right but I thought CPP contributions start at age 18?

#38 Average Joe on 01.03.18 at 6:49 pm

He had many flaws, but on the topic of paying living wages, Henry Ford was unequivocal. He considered it bad business to short-change his employees for the sake of padding his own pocket. The following excerpt is from “My Life and Work”. It is out of copyright and available freely from many sites including http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/7213/pg7213.txt if anyone is interested in reading it in its entirety. It is a fascinating read. Ford was decades ahead of his competition on many fronts where it came to running his business, but lost market share to his biggest competitor because they chose to appeal to the visceral senses by focusing on style, as opposed to substance.

#39 UN on 01.03.18 at 6:50 pm

The Yulin Festival is coming to Vancouver this summer. Court case has been launched for it to take place. Saying no different than KFC and Steaks. Unbelievable.

#40 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 01.03.18 at 6:51 pm

the European Union (E.U.) provides a natural experiment on the effects of minimum wages. Most E.U. countries impose minimum wages, but some do not.

The accompanying charts tell the tale for both overall and youth unemployment in the E.U.. Unemployment rates are dramatically elevated in the E.U. countries that impose minimum wage laws, relative to those that do not.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-05/minimum-wage-and-populism

#41 Penny Henny on 01.03.18 at 6:52 pm

This Bud is for you Floppy.
Freezing pink snow in Markham
Purchased in April for 2 million.
Spent 200k on reno’s, or so they say.
Relisted for $2.28 million, basically trying to cover costs.
And accepted offer for $1.92 million.
My math says they lost $260,000 plus tying up some cash and incidentals.

#42 Kelsey on 01.03.18 at 6:53 pm

@ Screwed Canadian Millenial – so do you believe that the government should make it illegal for someone whose skills are only worth $12/hr to enter the workforce and voluntarily exchange their time for money? In what way is that the right or moral thing to do?

#43 dosouth on 01.03.18 at 6:54 pm

The fear mongering over paying a living wage gets tiresome.

The rich continue to get richer and using media to create fake news, this too will fade. Pay or become an employee and see what the other end of the stick is like.

The Bank of Canada is issuing fake news? You guys are a riot. – Garth

#44 Al on 01.03.18 at 6:54 pm

Garth,

Today I did my regulag oil change at one of the quicky places. Typically around $75 for full synthetic. .today was $97…

There was also a note about the price increase.

This place employs minimum wage teenagers and young adults.

My wife emailed me in a craze on why I spent that much.

Totally because of minimum wage increase.

So really they are passing it on to consumers which is basically government induced inflation.

Nice

#45 TheDood on 01.03.18 at 6:54 pm

Canada’s top CEOs earn 200 times an average worker’s salary: report
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ceo-income-pay-canadian-worker-1.4462496

What a scam. I honestly don’t know how you people live with yourselves.
_________________________________________

Stop being a baby and grow up. If you made the same amount of money, you would winter in Florida too.

This canadian “sheep” like attitude is pathetic at best. Pull your heads out of the sand, stop buying real estate, and invest. You’ll be wintering on some beach in no time.

#46 UN on 01.03.18 at 6:58 pm

There should be no minimum wage. And privatize healthcare. Let private companies set premiums for insurance based on age. Too many seniors nowadays. We can’t afford it. Logan’s Run?

#47 Rob on 01.03.18 at 6:58 pm

Ron Joyce has donated more to Canada, charitably, that you can dream of. Watch your tongue. – Garth

That’s your answer? I’m intrigued to how you were going to answer the poster and then u said that?!

You would be surprised at how much I donate and how little I make. Don’t know why I do it sometimes and it’s not to help my tax situation either. Just out of the goodness of my heart. I highly doubt that Ron is doing it for the same reasons I am. Most “rich dudes” almost always do it because there is a motive to make more, or maybe just to lower taxes (gain more)

You are more moral than a rich guy because you’re not one? – Garth

#48 X on 01.03.18 at 6:59 pm

I am not the 1%. I feel I pay more than my fair share of tax money. Honestly about at my limit for what I feel is acceptable.

I am amazed at some of the comments thus far. Take out a loan and start a business. The education needed and risk taken, far offset whatever work the employees are doing.

You can punch in and get your hourly wage on one hand, or loose your house and go bankrupt if you fail on the other hand.

No comparison.

But yes, start a Tim Hortons union. Unions solve all problems. Government solves all problems too. Vote NDP.

#49 Paul on 01.03.18 at 7:02 pm

#25 The real Kip on 01.03.18 at 6:28 pm
What a load of garbage coming from rich business owners and this pathetic blog. Time for a union at Tim Hortons and they’ll pay $15/hr plus pay for breaks!
————————————————————————————————
Best stay up in your tower, you don’t know stoot about running a business!

#50 Kilt on 01.03.18 at 7:02 pm

Many coffee and restaurant chains pay above minimum wage, usually a few cents, in order to not be grouped in with the “minimum wage” gang. And when it comes time for a raise, the maximum amount is usually insulting. It is estimated that 25% of Canadians make $15 an hour or less.
My spouse has worked at or near minimum wage jobs for the past few years. About the only year it made sense was when there was income splitting. Hours were horrible and most of the money is going to the government once you factor in my salary.
The turnover at minimum wage places is horrendous. Because the employee knows they can easily find a similar or better job, they have absolutely no reason to stick around.
My local coffee shot has a new counter person every time I visit (and a sign on the door – help wanted). I’ve started to avoid the place because of the variation in the quality of the drink you get. I’m sure if they paid their better employees more they might stick around, and customers may be more loyal.
It is unfortunate for some places of employment (like Garth’s) where the employer hires locally and does pay above minimum wage. And it might not be fair to others who have been loyally working at place for years only to now be paid the same as a new hire.
It is going to cause problems, but for every failed enterprise, there is always someone ready to step in and try to succeed.
Kilt

#51 Freebird on 01.03.18 at 7:03 pm

True leaders command respect not demand it, and will always say the buck stops with me.

Since our PM sees he’s role as more ceremonial I guess this doesn’t apply?

#52 satans on 01.03.18 at 7:05 pm

I am calling BS on this one

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/what-billionaires-say-about-universal-basic-income-in-2017.html

#53 For those about to flop... on 01.03.18 at 7:05 pm

Recent Sale Report/ Pink Snow falling in Vancouver.

I will do this one in two stages to try not to confuse anyone.

Part One…

2832 w 3rd ave,Vancouver

Asking 2.69

Just Sold for 2.61

Assessment just came down to 2.88 from 2.95

Part two…

If you look at the assessment it was picked up for 2.55 in March 2016and so now if we run the numbers and they hold you get…

Paid 2.55 March 2016

Sold 2.61 December2018/January 2018 depending on the ink dry time.

And so after expenses and a little bit for opportunities lost it can easily be considered a 125k misstep.

I will re- visit and confirm, but it appears right now to be someone else’s problem…

M43AZ

https://www.zolo.ca/west-vancouver-real-estate/2832-w-3rd-avenue

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMDdNUg==

#54 dakkie on 01.03.18 at 7:05 pm

Making Your CADs Stretch Further into the New Year

http://investmentwatchblog.com/making-your-cads-stretch-further-into-the-new-year/

#55 Lol on 01.03.18 at 7:08 pm

Canada is becoming a dump . No one cares.really they don’t

Garth is venting , nothing more . This blog
Is therapy

#56 Joe Schmoe on 01.03.18 at 7:09 pm

I like the steady increase to minimum wage.

But to think it’s all roses is naive.

People will need more spend cash to buy all that expensive and easily accessible weed. Churn baby churn!

#57 Deano on 01.03.18 at 7:11 pm

Garth, I struggle with this and I think you’re reaching on it. As a former small business guy, I get it. We have to remember though, minimum wage was frozen for over a decade-it never went up with inflation. Now it is catching up and it will hurt. That being said, the best evidence of a large increase in minimum wage suggests a 3% bump in prices, a very modest reduction in hours worked, but no real job losses and the sky doesn’t fall. I will post in a year…one of us will be able to say “I told you so”.

#58 cultural elitist on 01.03.18 at 7:12 pm

All you a**hats yammering about wealthy elites are completely missing the point: businesses are not charities, they exist to make a profit. If a business sees increasing expenses in one area, they are required to offset those expenses to stay in business. That’s just how it works, all moralizing aside.

Some business owners are jerks, but most are not – no reason to demonize people you don’t actually know.
By forcing a wage increase of this magnitude onto small businesses, many marginal operations will have to rethink their operations. Forget the rich Tim Hortons owners – that’s just an example. Think of the guy who owns the corner store in your neighbourhood. Hardworking, honest guy just saw his expenses go up, and is now struggling with how to keep his business viable.

There are winners and losers to this – the net effect of this wage increase is anyone’s guess, but the Bank of Canada has more of a clue than you or I do.

Personally I would like to see small sustained minimum wage increases based on some formula related to inflation and growth. Something rational (a guy can dream). But since that’s not politically possible, we get years (decades) of no increases, and then abrupt leaps. Bad for everyone in the long run really.

#59 dave in kincardine on 01.03.18 at 7:12 pm

The letter does seem mean spirited. No sympathy from head office? Tim’s has slipped since it was bought a couple of years ago IMO.

People forget that employees are timed and will get punted if they are too slow, so there is stress involved with this low paying job as well.

Maybe I will give them a tip to make up for cut benefits. sdl

#60 Mike in Toronto on 01.03.18 at 7:13 pm

Pretty sure the Labour code requires a minimum 2 paid breaks and an unpaid break in an 8 hour shift…

#61 islander on 01.03.18 at 7:14 pm

https://www.thestar.com/business/opinion/2018/01/02/top-100-ceo-compensation-hits-2489-an-hour.html
“The minimum wage for the top CEOs is now $2,489 an hour,
For Garth:
“The numbers: average worker pay rose by 0.5 per cent in 2016. That’s a $228 increase, taking the annual income to $49,738. Canada’s top 100 CEOs were luckier: an average 8-per-cent pay hike pushed their average pay to $10.4 million, the first time the centre’s data-crunching has taken the total above the $10-million mark. ”
“CEOs have been incentivized increasingly over the past three decades through means other than straight pay. There’s the conventional bonus… …back-dated stock options….regular old stock options. …direct share awards.” The list goes on ….’the golden handshake’ etc……

Are workers even keeping up with inflation? Check out equivalencies for $15.00 CAD in 1990/ 2000 / 2010 /2017 etc.
http://inflationcalculator.ca/

The ‘ceo pay” is for 100 people. How does that possibly affect you? – Garth

#62 Doug t on 01.03.18 at 7:14 pm

Tims blows – bad coffee and the food is horrible. Anywho we are all hooped – rich and poor (in different ways) – socialism like ours is a prickly pear

RATM

#63 Doug t on 01.03.18 at 7:16 pm

#25 Kip

Unions are dinosaurs – useless – employees pay dues and get zilch – I was at GM for 6 years and that’s a fact jack

RATM

#64 Sam the Sham on 01.03.18 at 7:17 pm

I know people with small businesses who have minium wages employees. They know that the minium wage isn’t enough for them to get by. They would like to give their good employees raises, but they are in highly competitive businesses and would loose an advantage to their competition. An increase in the minium applies to all, so no businesses are disadvantaged. Businesses will adjust and this will all balance out. We will, however, have listen to a lot of p!ssing and moaning for awhile!

#65 Doug t on 01.03.18 at 7:18 pm

#24

Nobody is forcing anyone to work at Tims

RATM

#66 Ian on 01.03.18 at 7:20 pm

The US is a multi century empire built on $21 trillion of dog poo, 4t of which the Fed said they would unload but either can’t or were lying about.

This is the year of GOLD!!

#67 none on 01.03.18 at 7:20 pm

THis is kind of a funny post. Looks like the owners figured out a way of effectively paying the increase in minimum wage. Way to go life hackers! The invisible hand of capitalism wins again!

#68 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.03.18 at 7:20 pm

My goodness.
Coupla most posts like this Grath and Screwed Canadian Millenial will be in the Sunday Obituaries

“It was the diet pops that killed him…..”

#69 The Bigiot on 01.03.18 at 7:21 pm

#25 The Real Kip

Yup a union is just what they need. But with $600 amonth in union dues so some fat cat union jerk can go to meetings in Florida may not solve thier problems.

Not that anyone would want to go to Florida now that Trump has solved global warming and its snowing there.

#70 Doug t on 01.03.18 at 7:21 pm

#8

Wow really? You are not very bright are you? Bitter yes but not bright

RATM

#71 Eyestrain on 01.03.18 at 7:22 pm

#10 Pathcontrolmonk on 01.03.18 at 6:07 pm

Central banks chose words carefully. The report speaks volumes. – Garth

*********
who collectively hire hundreds of thousands of young people for their fist jobs? – Garth again

You’re killin’ it today Garth. Freud much?
Can anybody else here read?

#72 gb on 01.03.18 at 7:23 pm

Garth…Really?

You suggest that you don’t “build anyone up by tearing others down” which is a completely laughable false dichotomy.

No one is “tearing down” these billionaires by asking them to pay a livable wage to people. I am sure they will be just fine for goodness sakes.

That letter (knowing the source) is disgusting on so many levels in my opinion.

Quid pro quo Garth…does building giant heaps of wealth trickle down to others?

I am not going to suggest that hiking minimum wage writ large is the answer because many businesses will be affected differently depending on their financial situations. But choosing these folks (Tim Horton’s owners) worth billions was terribly provocative….or was that the point?

Just too bad that those with sufficient wealth have to be forced to pay people a living wage. I’m all for people building a business and being well compensated for it but when greed takes over it literally has a negative impact on the economy.

Not sure how you could argue otherwise.

#73 ...and at Swiss Chalet on 01.03.18 at 7:24 pm

…….the “Two can dine for $15.99” 1/4 chicken special has increased to $17.99.

#74 Trojan House on 01.03.18 at 7:25 pm

What it comes down to is that we’re arguing about basically an unpaid lunch. Not a big deal in my opinion because most of us have the same thing. I do. My day is 8 hours, one of which is unpaid. A previous job was 9 hours with one hour unpaid. My wife gets a half hour unpaid “break” and she doesn’t work in the fast food business. So SCM don’t get your underwear in a knot.

By the way, SCM, I’ll take you up on that wager. Who ever loses has to buy the ice cream at Belfountain GS.

#75 chopstix on 01.03.18 at 7:26 pm

ah, Scamcouver…just when people want to know more about how BC Casinos were involved considerable money laundering, they throw up even more barriers to those wanting to find out the truth of what went on during the previous greasy BC libs’ tenure.

”Casino workers’ union stunned by BCLC’s $500,000 freedom of information search fee.”
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/casino-workers-union-stunned-by-bclcs-500000-freedom-of-information-search-fee

#76 tccontrarian on 01.03.18 at 7:28 pm

One word comes to mind:

“STAGFLATION”!

Oh, and “GOLD” (as in ‘gotta have some’)

TCC

#77 Linda on 01.03.18 at 7:29 pm

#13 Sean: Right on, Sean. To be fair to the commenter, I have listened to various politicians speaking about taxes as if there are 3 separate levels of taxpayer to pay them. So the confusion about who is a consumer can possibly be explained by this view that money comes from ‘someone’ else – & that costs are not passed onto that consumer, whoever it might be.

I do not see anyone giving up their Timmies, despite the increase in costs of wages & ultimately, goods/services being sold. But I do wonder about the inflation thing. As in, perhaps these policies to increase minimum wages is intended to have more than one outcome – the first being, if people are being paid more they can possibly be taxed more & the government is very concerned about keeping those tax revenues flowing at as high a level as possible. Doesn’t matter who is at the helm. However, the wage hike effect on inflation – well now. Wasn’t that long ago that deflation was rearing its scary little head. So, if one artificially ‘inflates’ the economy so the numbers look good…. Or maybe I’m just being cynical. Move along, nothing to see here…..

#78 Cronyism is Corruption on 01.03.18 at 7:29 pm

Ron Joyce has donated more to Canada, charitably, that you can dream of. Watch your tongue. – Garth

What an unbelievably vapid response. SCM, although sometimes tedious, has made valid points. Joyce’s charity does not justify exploitation. If we have a labour shortage, to the extent that we have any need for TFWs, then wage increases should be a given based on simple economics. If a business owner can’t afford to pay a decent wage, they can’t afford to be in business. Full stop. Never mind your whining about how those with less money want to take from those with more. The reality is that those who have way too much are still trying to strip more away from low and middle incomes. Just take a look at the out of control compensation of CEOs of large corporations, which also typically leave their pension plans chronically underfunded. Oh, but hey, maybe that CEO tossed a few dimes in the charity box before boarding a private jet to their winter home down south.

What labour exploitation? Over his successful life Ron Joyce has employed armies of people happy to have the work, plus managed to donate tens of millions to charities helping untold numbers of others, including kids at his famous summer camp. The whining and class warfare here is hard to fathom. Makes you wonder why would anyone want to succeed in Canada. – Garth

#79 Nick on 01.03.18 at 7:31 pm

Great post. Been trying to argue that the outcome of a drastic min wage increase is not all rosy. Unfortunately these people cant see past their nose and really have no clue how the world really works.

#80 john m on 01.03.18 at 7:32 pm

“You do not build anyone up by tearing others down”. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me…….so i guess your solution is keep the little people down and success will follow for the chosen few?

#81 millmech on 01.03.18 at 7:32 pm

#25
that will show them, get the union in there. I worked at a plant and remember the union grieving the company Christmas turkey gift, why? The most senior employee got a lighter turkey than some of the junior members, it was a lack of respect for the company to do that to a long serving member said the union.
Company no longer gives out free turkeys, not worth the hassle, got to love it!

#82 Mark on 01.03.18 at 7:32 pm

The people running this country do not understand finance. They don’t understand business. and they don’t understand economics. It’s f***ing terrifying.

#83 Figmund Sreud on 01.03.18 at 7:35 pm

It’s been three whole days since the minimum wage soared…
______________________

… enough. Enough already. Please.

For months now, the commentariat has been whining, writing articles, blogging, having radio and TV discussions, giving sermons and making speeches in which it has stubbornly struggled to truly, honestly understand all those strange, strange earth-occupying creatures: … ordinary people. Struggling!

F.S. – Comox, BC.

#84 Royal City Dweller on 01.03.18 at 7:37 pm

Screw Canadian Millennial is having a field day!
Gosh, I knew he would.
How entertaining. Thank you.

#85 conan on 01.03.18 at 7:37 pm

Will existing workers who have been above minimum wage now expect increases? – Garth

Absolutely, seeing it now. Especially in construction and renovation. 15 dollar an hour peeps want 20 now. Problem is these 15 dollar an hour peeps can not be replaced by 14 dollar an hour peeps with no skills.

So they will get this raise. Everyone by the hour is getting a raise in construction.It will be about 5 bucks an hour, right across the board.

#86 Maxima on 01.03.18 at 7:38 pm

Australia has a minimum wage of $20.00 per hour. Things are doing fine there. Canadian business class need to quit whining!!! They get tons of write offs and “ sprinkling” to manage things!!!

The minimum there is $18.29 and applies to only 1.8 million workers. – Garth

#87 greyhound on 01.03.18 at 7:39 pm

“…the Timbits are on me.” I for one would enjoy a blog post on the central banks’ money printing as a primary driver of inequality & populism. For more than 30 years folks who own assets have profited while those who merely earn a salary have stagnated. One reason Bitcoin has surged is because many want to escape CB’s influence.

They won’t. – Garth

#88 Dentistabroad on 01.03.18 at 7:39 pm

I would have to agree with SCM here
Good businesses should be able to tolerate an increase, higher wages will flow back into the local economy
Minimum wage in NZ is 15.75 and the economy is doing great.

#89 tccontrarian on 01.03.18 at 7:41 pm

My biggest fear?

Now that I’m rapidly advancing towards the 1% class (financially), will my old ‘friends’ still choose to hang with me? Some actually take pride in living pay-cheque to pay-cheque and trashing the 1%-ers at every chance.

But then again, should I care?

Garth, how do you handle being ‘there’?? Do you ever get suicidal from the stigma of being successful?

TCC

#90 Reality Check on 01.03.18 at 7:44 pm

They are Lucky they kept their jobs, at least for now. Others won’t be as Lucky. No one owes anyone a job anymore. Reality Bites.

#91 Cindy on 01.03.18 at 7:44 pm

Major retailers will be further incentivized to go cashierless. Walmart’s been experimenting with Project Kepler. Others industries will follow.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/walmart-exploring-cashier-less-stores/

The food and hospitality industries will replace people with AI. This is the future we’re facing, and it would be regardless, but these minimum wage increases will speed it up.

And not just in industries that employ minimum wage workers. Technology is exploding exponentially.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3812887/canadian-jobs-automation-technology/

So….basic income. That’s where we’re headed. And now, even faster than before!!

It’s such an interesting time to be alive!! Seriously.

#92 Eyestrain on 01.03.18 at 7:45 pm

#47 Rob on 01.03.18 at 6:58 pm

Ron Joyce has donated more to Canada, charitably, that you can dream of. Watch your tongue. – Garth
…. I highly doubt that Ron is doing it for the same reasons I am. Most “rich dudes” almost always do it because there is a motive to make more, or maybe just to lower taxes (gain more)

You are more moral than a rich guy because you’re not one? – Garth

**********
Honestly never heard of the guy till now, but his Google life doesn’t shout moral. Maybe lick a better role model Garth ??

“Never heard of him.” Figures. — Garth
Joyce devotes time to numerous charities including the Tim Horton Children’s Foundation, which he founded, that sends underprivileged kids to camp each year. Joyce’s efforts on behalf of the Foundation earned him the Gary Wright Humanitarian Award in 1991, presented periodically in recognition of the outstanding contributions to the betterment of community life throughout Canada. In recognition primarily for his work with the Foundation, he also received an appointment to the Order of Canada, with the official presentation taking place on October 21, 1992 in Ottawa. Joyce is still the honorary chair of the Tim Horton’s Children Foundation, but he says he no longer takes an active role in the charity. Instead, he started his own foundation, The Joyce Foundation, to administer his personal philanthropic work.

In May 1993, Joyce accepted an Honorary Doctorate of Commerce from Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. In 1994, he received McGill University’s Management Achievement Award. He also holds honorary degrees from Mount Allison and McMaster universities. In November 1996, Ron Joyce became only the second person to ever receive the Canadian Franchise Association’s Lifetime Achievement Award.

In April 1999, Ron Joyce was inducted into the Canadian Business Hall of Fame and in October of the same year, he was named Entrepreneur of the Year for Ontario and Canada.

In June 2005, Joyce donated $10 million towards the construction of a new sports stadium, Ron Joyce Stadium, at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, the single largest private donation to a Canadian athletics program to that date. In June 2007, he donated a further $10 million towards McMaster’s new Burlington campus, now called the Ron Joyce Centre, which currently houses the school’s MBA program.

In November 2005, Joyce was the 2005 Humanitarian Award Recipient by the Canadian Red Cross, Nova Scotia Region for his work with the Tim Horton Children’s Foundation and for his continued support of education and health organizations across the world.

In November 2008, he donated $5,000,000 to Mount Allison University to create the Ron Joyce Centre for Business Studies.

In January 2016, the Burlington, Ontario-based Joyce Foundation made a $1,000,000 donation to the University of Ontario Institute of Technology in support of students who have demonstrated financial need.

#93 mike from mtl on 01.03.18 at 7:49 pm

or the pizza joint owner who employs min-wage delivery kids
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Hey my local small biz pizza joint most certainly does not employ ‘kids’. Rather, gruff mid-40s men.

#94 Bob Dog on 01.03.18 at 7:51 pm

Ron Joyce family eh.. I was wondering who took a Canadian icon and ruined it. Its a sad day when 7/11 has better donuts than tim hortons.

Time to sharpen your pitchforks kiddies. I feel the standard of living for young candians has reach such lows that a revolution is sure to erupt. All it would take is an NHL strike for the average canadian to awake from their trance and realize the only terrorists affecting their lives are in Ottawa not Syria.

Temporary foreign foreign worker program is an absolute outrage. It sickens me to think of oh how low our government has taken us all in order to line the pockets of the 0.1%

My new years resolutions include an end to all tipping. This is corporate welfare. It must end.

Today in vancouver young canadians are demanding a freeze to soaring rents. I feel the only way to fix thinks is a total reset. Economic collapse followed by a rebuilding of the economy taking into consideration the people who actually live here.

#95 young & foolish on 01.03.18 at 7:54 pm

“What’s tedious is all these wealthy elites sitting on piles of cash, complaining about to have a pay a decent wage to all the people actually doing all the work.”

“What a load of garbage coming from rich business owners and this pathetic blog”

Hmmm … maybe we need to go through another real turn of gloves-off socialism again. Even though we have really been moving to the left for years (consider all our rules and regulations, not to mention the size of government), many folks have no idea what actual top down socialism looks or feels like. Many immigrants escaped oppressive “socialist” regimes to get here so they can have the opportunity to build something on their own. I guess you don’t really know it, until you live it.

#96 morrey on 01.03.18 at 7:54 pm

tax the rich. they can afford it.

in fact the rich should pay way more taxes than they actually do. in relative term they are not pulling their weight. just look at the lazy Tim Horton heirs for proof.

Most small business owners are not rich. And why are this couple, who run two franchises ‘lazy.’ Do you know them? Who are you to judge? What a sad place this blog is tonight. – Garth

#97 Chimingin on 01.03.18 at 7:54 pm

As a small business owner, I’d love to comment about the impact this is having on us (we pay well above minimum wage and benefits to workers who do not require more than high school), but I’m so sick of seeing Screwed Canadian Millennial’s drama posted ad nauseum, I won’t bother. His input diminishes any and every conversation.

#98 conan on 01.03.18 at 7:55 pm

#60 Mike in Toronto on 01.03.18 at 7:13 pm

No they don’t. A meal break unpaid is required, but paid breaks no.

So why does everyone get paid breaks?
Employers have learned long ago that the paid break is one of the most efficient tools for maximizing employee productivity. Get rid of the paid break at your own peril.

#99 Smartalox on 01.03.18 at 7:58 pm

If you had the choice of cutting paid breaks, perks, and benefits for your staff, OR laying off staff altogether, which would you choose?

If you were staff, which would you prefer?

The Joyces’ did the right thing: they found a way to make things work, given a new rule imposed on them by government edict. Everyone who works there kept their job, and everyone is taking home the same amount (or more) than they were before Jan 1st.

If prices (set by head office – now located in Brazil!?!) are adjusted to compensate, benefits may well be restored at a later date.

Or, if business picks up, due to more people earning more money, and spending it at Tim’s, workers might elect to restore benefits, instead of taking on more workers.

There was nothing in the letter that said the changes were permanent.

#100 Adam on 01.03.18 at 8:01 pm

The entire economic platform of the Liberals is obviously dedicated to the whole “1% problem” – income/wealth inequality and the rift it is causing in our current society. It sure is an admiral problem to tackle, rather than ignore.

Trickle down economics doesn’t work (otherwise society wouldn’t be in the inequality mess that it is right now – tax rates have been dropping for decades on the wealthy and the problem only seems to have gotten worse). Trump’s policies seem to indicate he thinks otherwise… actually he doesn’t think otherwise, the reality is he just doesn’t care.

As you say, Garth, all the economic policies of the Trudeau government won’t work, ok, that’s fair.

So we know trickle-down doesn’t work, and we know that the Liberals policies aren’t working, so what should we try next?

#101 For those about to flop... on 01.03.18 at 8:02 pm

#41 Penny Henny on 01.03.18 at 6:52 pm
This Bud is for you Floppy.
Freezing pink snow in Markham
Purchased in April for 2 million.
Spent 200k on reno’s, or so they say.
Relisted for $2.28 million, basically trying to cover costs.
And accepted offer for $1.92 million.
My math says they lost $260,000 plus tying up some cash and incidentals.

//////////////

Hey Penn, there are people on here better at it than me but I just fed the numbers into my world famous Floppelater Calculator and it told me that they most likely lost 396k with a little added in for opportunities lost.

The caveat is they I have already had a couple of Hop Pops as I sat in the pool staring up at the Freeport- McMoran building…

M43AZ

#102 FitGeek on 01.03.18 at 8:06 pm

In 1964 & 1965 the minimum wage in Ontario was $1 (#1) and a cup of Tim Horton’s Coffee was $0.10 (#2) with a retail sales tax of 3% (#3). Let’s assume that the tax of a fraction of a penny doesn’t count.

With tax and paying cash a small cup of Tim Horton’s coffee today is $1.55

By simple ratio, Tim Horton’s should be paying their employees $15.50/hour if they are to afford the same number of coffees that they might have had for the same hour of working.

A further analysis would have to include the impact of income tax rates, which are likely higher today, making the employees further underpaid.

#1: https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/minimum-wages
#2: https://insidetimmies.com/2014/05/17/the-first-50-years-a-brief-history-of-tim-hortons/
#3: https://www.poltext.org/sites/poltext.org/files/discours/ON/ON_1964_B_27_02.pdf

#103 Rational Optimist on 01.03.18 at 8:06 pm

“Twelve months away, in the unlikely event Libs still rule the joint, it goes up another 7%.”

I think the Ontario Tories will once again achieve the impossible and lose the election. Their position on the minimum wage issue is a good illustration of why: to differentiate themselves, they are raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2022, instead of 2019.

That’s not much differentiation. One the one hand, if you’re a small business owner concerned about increasing costs, or a consumer likewise concerned, the Tories will merely give you a three-year reprieve. If you are a minimum wage earner, though, or someone who knows one, a vote for the Tories is a vote for a $14.25 wage in 2019, and the vote for the Grits is a vote for a $15 wage. Which is going to be more motivational to get people to the polls?

Once again, the OPC lets the Liberals set the agenda, and follows it. They could point out that there has been no debate about what constitutes a living wage, and that “$15” is a gimmick adopted by lefties across jurisdictions with very different costs of living and labour markets. They could point out that the Liberals’ cynical position is that $15 an hour is only fair, but to get it, you have to re-elect the Liberals.

Instead, the Tories’ position seems to be that the Liberals are right, $15 is necessary, but they’re going to do it slower.

Rant over. I’ll be happy to be surprised in June. But I expect it to be similar to the result in 2011, with a Liberal “major minority,” with the Tories coming very close or maybe even besting them in the popular vote, but losing in the seat count.

#104 Loonie Doctor on 01.03.18 at 8:08 pm

#71

I saw that one too, but was laughing so hard I couldn’t type every time I tried. Sounds unpleasant, even at $14/h.

#105 Yuck on 01.03.18 at 8:08 pm

Is this the Yulin Festival that’s coming to Vancouver?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival

#106 Eyestrain on 01.03.18 at 8:09 pm

#91 Eyestrain on 01.03.18 at 7:45 pm

#47 Rob on 01.03.18 at 6:58 pm

Ron Joyce has donated more to Canada, charitably, that you can dream of. Watch your tonque.
You are more moral than a rich guy because you’re not one? – Garth
——-
Honestly never heard of the guy till now, but his Google life doesn’t shout moral. Maybe lick a better role model Garth ??

“Never heard of him.” Figures. — Garth
—- long list of awards, accomplishments etc. —-
*********
Sorry, but I always make my own coffee. Still wouldn’t want to share a business or a room with the guy. At least until proven innocent. Are you writing his obit.?

Anon Internet guy dissing this man. So sad. – Garth

#107 Down and Out on 01.03.18 at 8:09 pm

Some history on the minimum wage ,Thomas Sowell ‘s book Basic Economics would be good reading for those interested .I just wonder what kind of saps Wynne thinks we are saying’ its time for the minimum wage change’ even thou an election is coming up had nothing to do with it .We know more ‘right time to do this” gifts are coming before June .I just wonder whats next ,plastic bag ban,free daycare, photo radar, forced composting, first time home buyer grant or BC style tax reprise for seniors . The ruling Liberals have to stay in the news and look angelic ( no glasses for Wynne) lots of TV ads to come boosting they have our back especially the rear pocket with your wallet.

#108 Danny on 01.03.18 at 8:11 pm

Pretty harsh yes. Same crying folks every time minimum wages are increased.

Will the Tim Horton owner release his audited financial statement so we can see how much the real hurt is….or like Trump do we just accept his crocodile tears?
In the ORANGEVILLE area north of Toronto…I was told that the same person owned all 3 Tim Hortons…..Business can’t be that bad.

For those loyal Trump supporters what do you say now that the Donald says that Steve Bannon lost his mind when he left the White House?
Remember this is the same Donald who at that time called Steve a great friend and very bright and other glowing pats on the back.
With friends like Trump does Bannon need any enemies.

No credibility in Trump……irresponsible guy who doesn’t take nuclear war seriously.

Who will get the blow back from Trump next….Tillerson for trying to be a responsible adult being held back by the man baby Trump.
Just spreading more uncertainty…will the stock market really survive in this atmosphere?

#109 Jungle on 01.03.18 at 8:12 pm

I read a good Tim Horton’s franchise will give you about 300k yearly income.. is this still possible?

And the owners making that income are worried??

To qualify for a franchise requires $1.5 million in net worth and an investment of at least $500,000. It can take several years for cash flow to turn positive. Few franchises are available, but it sounds like you’re an ideal candidate.- Garth

#110 Cow Man on 01.03.18 at 8:17 pm

Sir Garth:

The Provincial Government is sending out cheques to about 18,000 Ontario School Bus drivers over the next 18 months to bring their wages close to the $14 an hour minimum. Never mind donuts, these drivers are the folks who are responsible for transporting children, in vehicles with no seat belts, air bags or adequate heating, safely to schools. The total cost is $60 million. Add to that the $30 million the Province is fronting to the Greenhouse vegetable growers to help them through the inflationary wage increase. The cost of this rapid increase in minimum wage is not nearly accounted for yet.
https://efis.fma.csc.gov.on.ca/faab/Memos/B2017/B16_EN.pdf

#111 will on 01.03.18 at 8:17 pm

“a failed crop of leaders whose policies have encouraged spending and debt”

I think you are referring to the previous government.

#112 Ardy on 01.03.18 at 8:19 pm

Garth, you really should not bother addressing the ignorant posts here. I see your angle in today’s post and understand you position. While i don’t fully agree, the merits of an enlightened mind crafting that post needs to be acknowledged. Most people knee jerk a response thinking with their giblets instead of what’s in between their ears.

I can’t understand how we as a society are so naive. Rich vs. Poor. Really? Not one of you can tell me with a straight face that if your position/life was switched with one of those rich dudes that you wouldn’t do the exact same thing. Family is a fierce motivator of wanting to preserve your wealth for your own. Heck, I’m not a rich dude, but I’m constantly thinking how to structure my finances to benefit my kids. (I’m only 36 btw).

Ron has his political agenda. He’s drawing his line in the sand as he should. Do I agree? Doesn’t matter because I’m not him. But I can tell you if I, or you were in his place, dollars to timbits, you’d be doing the same.

The stupid consumerism blinders need to come off people. We are over populated and not creating any value as a society. Do you really need a $5 coffee that you can brew for pennies at home. Do you need to eat out 5 night a week because you can’t learn to cook past Kraft dinner.

This will end very badly in Canada, because unlike the States, we produce very little in terms of value. With nothing to offer and this air of entitlement that the world needs Canada will only make it worse.

Think this over…… there is a reason Rogers, Bell and Telus dominate their sectors. The demand for competition can’t be justified by the non existent consumer base. But all the infrastructure costs are the same or much greater here. Do you really need your $80 data plan? Can you really afford it? How much opportunity cost are you giving up.

RD

#113 Timberr on 01.03.18 at 8:21 pm

The price increases have begun…

Harvey’s classic burger combo coupon that comes in the mailbox every month:

2017 price – $5.99
2018 price – $6.49 (coupons delivered Jan 2)

All of the other combos on the coupon sheet were increased by $0.50 as well…

#114 john m on 01.03.18 at 8:22 pm

#72 Gb<<< i could not agree with you more

#115 Jas on 01.03.18 at 8:22 pm

Kick ’em out of Ottawa.
Also please kick the orange colored out of AB and BC.
WTF do they know about running a country or a province.
They are there to ensure fat pensions for themselves. Period.

#116 Eyestrain on 01.03.18 at 8:26 pm

I’m not sad, I’m a practising Epicurean and
I’ll take a plutocrat over a tyrant anytime.
In the US what they have is, i think the term is ” double-double”, n’est-ce pas?

#117 Fran Deck Sr. on 01.03.18 at 8:26 pm

About a week and a half ago, I ordered from Swiss Chalet and was shocked at the cost. The Swiss Chalet order taker on the phone said everything has increased in price because of the minimum wage increase … she sounded delighted to be getting a raise but was oblivious to the fact that robotics, automation, drones and AI will be replacing everyone just like her in the next few years.

The Bank of Canada is being highly optimistic to think that only 60K jobs will be lost in Ontario due to the increase in the minimum wage. The worst is coming.

#118 Screwed Canadian Millennial on 01.03.18 at 8:26 pm

#109 Jungle on 01.03.18 at 8:12 pm

Don’t forget their big profit centre of importing TFWS and housing them all a dozen at a time in a tiny apartment and deducting the rent straight off their paycheque. Great way to get in on the Canadian housing bubble. Garth can hate on me all he wants but I speak the truth. That is reality. That is the real world. Modern day Canadian slavery.

I’m posting from mobile at a McDonalds in Toronto and their prices are still the same. I don’t begrudge a price increase and I have said before before that I think the min wage increase could have been staggered over 3 years instead of 2 so $11.60, $12.80, $14, $15. But this whining from wealthy elites wintering in Florida over how much it pains them to pay the plebs a decent wage is beyond the pale. Ill never ever buy anything from a Tim Hortons again.

#119 ManitobaWhale on 01.03.18 at 8:27 pm

Thank you for putting into words my fears as a small business owner in Canada.

MW

#120 Rob JM on 01.03.18 at 8:30 pm

Sorry but a business model that needs slave labour to be profitable deserves to fail. An enforced minimum wage kills uncompetitive businesses, thus reducing competition and increasing profitably of those that survive. At the same time those businesses now pay a wage that increases consumption as the workers have money to spend on non essential items.

#121 will on 01.03.18 at 8:30 pm

question regarding contributions in kind:

how about this for a strategy:

i have securities in my cash account that have fallen in value. i don’t want to sell them just yet. can i contribute them to my tfia (tax free investment account), then still use the capital loss against future gains in my cash account? what’s wrong with this strategy? thx.

#122 MF on 01.03.18 at 8:31 pm

What is there to say? The rise is completely unwarranted and was nothing but a last ditched effort to woo the losers who vote Liberal in provincial elections -nothing more.

Of course it will cause layoffs. Of course it will cause working hours to go down. Of course it will cause prices to increase. Of course it will increase automation.

Just a flat out stupid policy concocted by even stupider leaders.

I remember working my butt off at minimum. $6.40/hour then $6.80. I was exhausted after every day of work. This motivated me to study hard, gain skills, and move forward. Which I did. That is how it SHOULD be.

I also think I now deserve a raise if some lazy kid with zero skills saw his salary go up so much.

Disgusting.

MF

#123 Rob on 01.03.18 at 8:32 pm

You are more moral than a rich guy because you’re not one? – Garth

I love you Garth. Always twisting however u see fit. Maybe you should go back to politics but then I would miss this blog and everything you do here.

I said most, and to go back to Ron, maybe he made one for a morally good reason, or maybe not. But don’t tell me to respect someone for their donations. If that is the case then you should have a lot of respect for me :)

#124 Eyestrain on 01.03.18 at 8:33 pm

#104 Loonie Doctor on 01.03.18 at 8:08 pm
#71

I saw that one too, but was laughing so hard I couldn’t type every time I tried. Sounds unpleasant, even at $14/h.
*********
A good thing your wife does your OHIP billing ;-)

#125 Screwed Canadian Millennial on 01.03.18 at 8:33 pm

To qualify for a franchise requires $1.5 million in net worth and an investment of at least $500,000. It can take several years for cash flow to turn positive. Few franchises are available, but it sounds like you’re an ideal candidate.- Garth

————

Just keep in mind you’re not entitled to cheap labour. It’s the worst, most destructive entitlement we have in this country and in today’s society.

Honestly if these entrepreneurial geniuses rely on cheap labour and TFWs to stay in business, maybe they’re crap at running a business?

#126 Long-Time Lurker on 01.03.18 at 8:33 pm

I didn’t do an in-depth look at the effects of minimum wage increases but I did read that in Puerto Rico and Samoa raising the minimum wage put their businesses out of operation and caused job losses like The Bank of Canada is predicting.

There’s an American economics professor named Dr. Thomas Sowell who has spent his lifetime debunking left-wing liberal fantasies. He’s highly acclaimed in the U.S. which is strange because I never heard of him until last year. He’s written many books and articles rationally debunking the false beliefs of our times in the U.S.

Since he’s already done a lot of the thinking, I’ll refer to Dr. Sowell from time to time here when I feel like ripping into some fallacies.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415569/minimum-wage-laws-ruinous-compassion-thomas-sowell

Minimum-Wage Laws: Ruinous ‘Compassion’
March 18, 2015 12:00 AM

They always hurt young and unskilled workers. It is fascinating to see brilliant people belatedly discover the obvious — and to see an even larger number of brilliant people never discover the obvious.

A recent story in a San Francisco newspaper says that some restaurants and grocery stores in Oakland’s Chinatown have closed after the city’s minimum wage was raised. Other small businesses there are not sure they are going to survive, because many depend on a thin profit margin and a high volume of sales.

At an angry meeting between local small-business owners and city officials, the local organization that had campaigned for the higher minimum wage was absent. They were probably some place congratulating themselves on having passed a humane “living wage” law. The group most affected was also absent – inexperienced and unskilled young people, who need a job to get some experience, even more than they need the money.

It is not a breakthrough on the frontiers of knowledge that minimum-wage laws reduce employment opportunities for the young and the unskilled of any age. It has been happening around the world, for generation after generation, and in the most diverse countries.

You can check this out for yourself. Go to your local public library and pick up a copy of the distinguished British magazine The Economist. Whether it is the current issue or a back issue doesn’t matter. Spain, Greece, and South Africa will be easy to locate in the table near the back, which lists data for various countries.

Just look down the unemployment column for countries with unemployment rates around 25 percent. Spain, Greece, and South Africa are always there, whether or not there is a recession. Why? Because they have very generous minimum-wage laws….

— Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. His website is http://www.tsowell.com.

#127 techinical analysis? on 01.03.18 at 8:35 pm

Tim Horton coffee is horrible. Ever try it black? yuck.

Eating their food will make you sick in the long term (Diabetes, Cardiovascular disease, Fibromyalgia, Obesity etc)

I’m surprised the government allows them to stay in business… (add McD’s, Wendy’s and all the other garbage out there). Why don’t we close all these places down and ban tobacco and alcohol while were at it…

save billions on health care

#128 Moses and Bella on 01.03.18 at 8:36 pm

Garth what are your ideas or solutions for the growing problem of inequality?

#129 Cronyism is Corruption on 01.03.18 at 8:38 pm

What labour exploitation? Over his successful life Ron Joyce has employed armies of people happy to have the work, plus managed to donate tens of millions to charities helping untold numbers of others, including kids at his famous summer camp. The whining and class warfare here is hard to fathom. Makes you wonder why would anyone want to succeed in Canada. – Garth

Don’t be disingenuous. The labour exploitation is the choice to pay a less than liveable wage, or to exploit TFWs. Try going into a Tim’s, someday, Garth. Take note of the change box on the counter. You know, like the ones other businesses put out for tips? That kids camp you’re gushing so lovingly about is funded from that. By the customers. And in doing so, those monies that may have otherwise been tips, are not. Now, those customer donations, be they tips or camp donations, are certainly an act of generosity. Just lets not pretend it’s Joyce’s generosity. It’s him riding the wave of the customers’ generosity, while giving himself a shot of good publicity. And let’s just put the noblesse oblige where the sun don’t shine. If Joyce really wants to relieve himself of the tens of millions you claim he parts with out of sheer delightfulness, let him pay more to people who work hard at Tim’s. And they do work hard. Stand in one and watch the pace of the multitasking they execute, and know that they are monitored and timed right down to the second. Paying people who work hard and efficiently a decent wage is an investment in business operations, not a liability. Not to mention that it puts the money back in the economy, not trickled out(but not down) to somewhere offshore. Decent wages benefit us all. Exploitation benefits only the very few.

#130 Ian on 01.03.18 at 8:41 pm

The only reason people are complaining on this blog is that 1) You’ve never read Rich Dad Poor Dad, and 2) You keep voting Liberal which means you still don’t understand that Canada’s tax code absolutely targets T4 income earning employees.

Government grows, and grows, and grows. And you keep voting for it. And now you wonder why you feel disenfranchised and things suck for you.

#131 A Millionaire on 01.03.18 at 8:41 pm

While the USA is now flying, Canada is collapsing economically. Sad!

Canada doesn’t make anything other than houses. Eh.

#132 Keith on 01.03.18 at 8:42 pm

It may be possible to have a great society that is low wage, that cuts the income of its lowest paid workers in real terms over time, that increases the cost of post secondary training and education at higher than the cost of living over time, that has CEO’s (over) pay determined by a compensation committee of friends and colleagues, but I doubt it.

#133 Al on 01.03.18 at 8:45 pm

Our host must be trolling… Picks the heirs, not even the actual person who created the billion dollar fortune, as example of hard done owners who must unfortunately cut benefits to their minimum wage work force, lest, presumably, they be unjustly compensated. If turnover at Tim Hortons wasnt bad enough already, they apparently want to put it into overdrive. GL to their subordinates who actually manage the shops while the Joyce’s hang out in Florida wearing light sweaters (lows of 6c In Miami!)

#134 Josh Allen on 01.03.18 at 8:46 pm

What is the conservative ideal? Some poverty stricken world where people fight for their scrap of the pie. At least the liberals work to a vision of a world I want to live in–including a fair living wage for our working citizens. But no, you see us as a country too poor to afford that.

#135 TS on 01.03.18 at 8:49 pm

Hey Screwed Canadian Millennial,

The Joyce Family is following all the labour laws of the Province of Ontario in running their family business.

If you have a problem with the non-paid breaks or not getting your birthday off, then I suggest voting for a government who will enact those changes.

Otherwise, quit complaining.

#136 Ryan Perich on 01.03.18 at 8:50 pm

“You do not build anyone up by tearing others down. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me.”

I wish to take up that challenge.

Tearing others down who take (aka government employees) from the poorer, harder working (weekends, evenings, more hours) and are paid, on average, 33-50 % more than equivalantly trained, years worked staff (eg. any private sector)employee. Emergency medical and police staff are exempt from my rant. those hours suck hard working rotating nights, I am referring to desk jockeys who screw up city functions and designs.

a 20 % paycut across ALL government pensions, benefits, hourly rate would not be the sky falling. it would mean they can take 1 less vacation out of the country per year. And I dare say, about zero % chance they’d quit their job and find better in the private sector after a 20 % haircut.

(eg. in Alberta where teachers with 1 degree, after 10 years make almost 2x the average wage, who do NOT care if you can solve 2 /x = 6 at end of grade 11 math to prepare for university, DO NOT assign homework anymore (for the most part in most schools) earn > $90,000 year in EVERY jurisdiction, make 50 % more than the neighboring provinces where the cost of living is MORE (eg. BC) and there are THOUSANDS of qualified teachers willing to actually do work and help their students.)

Tear down the overpaid government works, and you can build up the rest of the province / country rather than rely on unfunded pension liabilities for your kids and grandkids to pay for. We have boomerang kids living in basements in a large part, not fully, due to envy us vs them from T1 40 years ago and have thus reaped the rewards.

Did that count Garth? to help pay for “real infrastructure”, not just pay wages for the privileged work in doors M-F all holidays paid unmatched health / disability benefits, tear down the “haves” (government employees”) to give to the have nots in the form of maybe less tax to spend money on …i dunno..housing ? food ? new audi ?

#137 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.03.18 at 8:54 pm

@#94 Bob Dog
“Today in vancouver young canadians are demanding a freeze to soaring rents. I feel the only way to fix thinks is a total reset. Economic collapse followed by a rebuilding of the economy taking into consideration the people who actually live here….”
+++++

My my.
Your “outrage” is only exceeded by your financial ignorance.

By “total reset” I assume you mean rewind the clock to some mythical yesteryear where everyone had a “peaches and cream” life?

When I started working minimum wage was $1.85/hour.
Minimum wage sucks.
Thats your incentive to either upgrade your skills, go back to school, brown nose the boss or realize……..Life is unfair.

Get over it.

#138 bubu on 01.03.18 at 8:55 pm

Good! No more tips for my hair dresser, waitress or other places…. Gov is giving you the tip now…

#139 X Stinked on 01.03.18 at 8:56 pm

Quite simply, if your business model does not support paying employees minimum wage (a wage that is still below a living wage), then, you don’t have a viable business (at least not one that deserves a place in a fair and civilized society).
– Lets face it, any fool can make money if they don’t have to pay much for labour.

So, is it that corporatists not too smart; are they suffering pathological cognitive dissidence; or are they just plain old mean spirited? Maybe all three.

Do you ever notice how ‘allegedly’ fiscal-conservatives adore the home owner grant, but can’t stomach the renters grant. They’re vehemently disgusted with social welfare programs, yet seemingly blind to the exponential growth of corporate welfare.

Workers earning a living wage are scientifically proven to be more beneficial to an economy than underpaid employees living in poverty with limited chance of upward mobility (if you believe in science, that is). Economists are not scientists; they’re more akin to philosophers and in some cases, wizards.

* Fairness is not a political ideology; its an attitude.

#140 The real Kip on 01.03.18 at 8:59 pm

union Union UNION!

#141 Leo Trollstoy on 01.03.18 at 9:01 pm

#12 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 6:13 pm

Post those articles to the Tim Hortons Facebook page.

Lolololol

#142 Kelsey on 01.03.18 at 9:01 pm

What % of Canadians are sole breadwinner adults trying to raise a family on minimum wage? Honest question.

#143 Al on 01.03.18 at 9:03 pm

Good post fitgeek. Tim Hortons cost for that cup of coffee is also probably significantly lower today due to increased efficiencies in production and transportation over the last 50 years.

#144 young & foolish on 01.03.18 at 9:04 pm

Conditions for citizens (rich or poor) have never been better! Just pick up a history book and see how things were a few decades ago. But somethings have really changed … like peoples’ sense of entitlement.

Our gradual shift toward socialism seems inevitable.

#145 timmie owners !! on 01.03.18 at 9:05 pm

Average shop makes over $300,000k before taxes . Time to pay your fellow man a bit more . If ya don’t like it ?
Pour the coffee yourself …or leave …..don’t worry you won’t be missed

#146 BillyBob on 01.03.18 at 9:05 pm

Ahhh…fresh coffee (my own, freshly ground and Aeropressed), a beautiful sunny 19C on a Thursday morning here in Asia, and the delightfully entertaining spectacle of a triggered Screwy…there’s something comforting in the predictable envy and bitterness.

Once a loser, always a loser. I see he brought several friends as well.

How ELSE did anyone actually think this would go?

#147 Tim’s Camp Supporter on 01.03.18 at 9:05 pm

Well they’re not worried about losing employees if they’re sending out snappy letters cutting benefits. My guess – they’re annoyed about having to pay an increased wage, and know the foreign worker program can be used to bail them out when people quit.

Wonder what Daddy thinks?

#148 Leo Trollstoy on 01.03.18 at 9:07 pm

Plebs who can’t support themselves, angry at Tim Hortons founder who has charity to help uncountable number of children. Angry Plebs are funny lol

Ive been going to Tims once a day for years. Go Tims!

#149 Willy H on 01.03.18 at 9:08 pm

Aggressively increasing minimum wage is a relatively blunt instrument with regional differences in cost of living in Ontario (urban vs rural etc….). In the GTA $15/hr is chump change when contrasted with living costs for non-student full time employees.

#150 Leo Trollstoy on 01.03.18 at 9:08 pm

There’s no worker exploration. All fall within law and ESA. Don’t like working at Tims? Then don’t work at Tims.

Enjoy your hourly wage hike

Lol

#151 InvestorsFriend on 01.03.18 at 9:13 pm

Tim Hortons Coburg location Mistakes

I predict these measures by Ron Joyce Junior and his wife (daughter of the late Tim Horton) will be rolled back and that the publicity will be a nightmare and rightly so. It was a dumb move. The head office of Tim Horton’s will not be impressed by this bad publicity.

By the way this has really NOTHING to do with Ron Joyce Senior who by the way had a pile of kids and may or may not leave anything to Junior here. What evidence is there that Ron junior has already gotten much of anything from Ron senior?

Even if junior is really an heir to Ron Senior’s money (along with his half dozen or so siblings) how does that make him rich?

Even accepting that Ron junior’s profits would be badly hurt by the new wage, his clumsy provocative approach here looks mean and was a big mistake.

Ron Joyce senior in the book he wrote explained how looking after franchisees was of the utmost importance. The equivalent for Ron junior would be looking after his staff. I guess he has a different view. Ron Joyce Senior has not been involved with Tim Hortons ownership for something like roughly 15 years now.

#152 Entrepreneur on 01.03.18 at 9:14 pm

A business should have the privilege to make the rules (within reason) to keep open. And many are. And so many stories. Times are tough and are going to get tougher (automation).

But, but with the “universal basic income” coming in, maybe, our problems will be solved or is it? Sounds like zombie world to me, the same with a lot of underground income.

Now we have that spiral economy that keeps reaching for the top, controlled and manipulated. But consumers are the real leaders of a country and dictate who stays open or not (if in debt they buy cheap so controlled again).

Bring back Tom Mulcair, at least he was for the people of Canada. He fought for us. The other parties were afraid of Mulcair and wanted him out, it worked. Liberals/Conservatives have been too cozy for too long to believe them anymore. David Eby is NDP and is speaking up for B.C.

#153 TurnerNation on 01.03.18 at 9:15 pm

Starve the beast!

Dear Diary:
The week before holidays I gave 0% of my weekly food budget to Canada’s duopolistic chains (Sobeys and Weston owned). No bills for the billionaires.
This week that might rise to 50% as it goes.

The rest, to an independent fruit market (paid cash);
An independent locally owned butchery ;
and Family run bakery (paid cash).

Rinse and repeat. Try it!!

#154 PAM on 01.03.18 at 9:15 pm

What if the business owners, entrepreneurs and anyone with any ambition shut down their businesses, go on strike, take their wealth and disappear?

#155 Smoking Man on 01.03.18 at 9:19 pm

The glibalist attack on small business and traditional families is in a play book.

More power and money to giant corps and lefty progressive govt.

Agenda 2030

Shocking to read it. God bless Donald Trump.

#156 Smoking Man on 01.03.18 at 9:22 pm

#127 PAM on 01.03.18 at 9:15 pm
What if the business owners, entrepreneurs and anyone with any ambition shut down their businesses, go on strike, take their wealth and disappear?
……

Ha ha been there done that and so are my friends. Weather is beautiful here year round.

X files tonight WooHoo

#157 Walter Safety on 01.03.18 at 9:23 pm

I see the confusion is already started. Mr & Mrs Tim’s are heirs? They’ve got it already? Maybe not -maybe they have to work just like you.
You’ve seen Ron Joyce’s will? Not anyone with family problems here? Maybe some family gets nothing.
I’ve talked to a few Tim’s owners. Head office has their ideas on how much you should make, how much and when you need to upgrade the store using head office tradesman etc. One store doesn’t cut it you just bought yourself a job , a decent paying job but you still got to show up . Three or four stores your doing better.
Of course you could lose it all if something goes Chipotle on the brand

#158 Tin Foil Hat on 01.03.18 at 9:25 pm

This will end very badly in Canada, because unlike the States, we produce very little in terms of value. With nothing to offer and this air of entitlement that the world needs Canada will only make it worse

………..

where do they come from?

thanks for the laugh

#159 Kokanee on 01.03.18 at 9:28 pm

Garth, have been a faithful reader for over 4 years. Quit reading the comments section a couple years ago mainly because of the surge in blood pressure when I did. For the life of me i cannot fathom how you stay sane reading these every day. Maybe it’s comic relief for you.

What many are not understanding is business owners expect a certain ROI from their business whether they are billionaires or pulling $50K out of the company. If they don’t get this they shutter the business and all are out of work. Quit vilifying the Joyce’s. They are just acting as responsible business owners. A Timmies franchise is not a charity.

#160 KT on 01.03.18 at 9:29 pm

Those kids should all quit (or walk out strike) at once, to make their owner realize something rather important. The bourgeois don’t exist without them. They can even afford to pay them $20/hr and still profit, but they chose not to.

#161 Fzzzz on 01.03.18 at 9:31 pm

Sounds like we need Garth in politics. Perhaps with more social media coverage the impact will be more pronounced. At least Boy Wonder isn’t anti internet.

#162 Debtslavecreator on 01.03.18 at 9:32 pm

SCM
You embody all that’s wrong with the thinking among so many in this socialist hell hole
-Ron Joyce and family has paid more tax than 99.9 % of Canadians ever will via all the T4 slips issued to each employee, Taxes paid on purchases of supplies and property tax etc
-the vast majority of businesses fail leaving many lives in ruin – mainly the entrepreneurs who failed
-the proper corp tax rate is 0, thats right ZERO
-taxes should be paid by all executives and employees regardless of the form taken. Passive investments within the corporation can be taxed at no more than 20%
-if the employees don’t like it they are FREE to leave and SHOULD. In fact you can guarantee that turnover will spike over the next year and eventually TH will have to find a way to keep good staff
-the greatest contribution to this junk economy we’ve had for the last couple of decades and it’s associated social problems is the fraudulent monetary policy
-you and others have NO right to extort high taxes from the minority who actually pay them
-no amount of money will help the government- in Canada and much of the developed world we have witnessed an unprecedented increase in regulations, taxes, deficits and every intervention from governments and their central banks yet the economy continues to perform poorly with greater social tension and boy wait until the next crash – hey maybe your boy Jagmeet can help you get everything “free” including that coveted guaranteed basic income
Study your financial history and reconsider your views
Government has and always will be a tool used to loot society when allowed to grow too big which is its natural tendency- hence why monetary policy needs to prevent easy borrowing/ governments should NOT be allowed to borrow

#163 Nick B on 01.03.18 at 9:34 pm

You can thank central banks for making minimum wage buy less and less goods and services each year. Thanks to the ill conceived notion that consumer price inflation is a good thing. Governments are trying to “help” people out by providing higher wages thru legislation. The only thing that central banks should fear is asset deflation which will likely arrive in 2018 thanks to our housing bubble bursting. The BIS has put out studies which support that consumer price deflation is not something to be feared.

#164 re., pam on 01.03.18 at 9:36 pm

What if the business owners, entrepreneurs and anyone with any ambition shut down their businesses, go on strike, take their wealth and disappear?
……..

they can take their ball go home, retire, watch Oprah

anew will take over. It’ll be okay…fear mongering doesnt work.

#165 Eco Capitalist on 01.03.18 at 9:36 pm

It’s all an interesting lesson in language. Ya see, when I was a kid, it was called Minimum Wage. It was understood that this was where you entered the labour force. You went to school, to acquire SKILLS, because you aspired to a higher paying job, and higher paying jobs required SKILLS.

Now, the language is shifting. They (who ever they are) want us to equate MINIMUM WAGE with LIVING WAGE. These were two very different things. No one should aspire to minimum wage and no one should expect to be able to lead an independent life on minimum wage. Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be full time careers.

#166 Andrew Woburn on 01.03.18 at 9:40 pm

– “For the first time in years, many single-family homes in Vancouver, the North Shore, Burnaby and Richmond went down in (assessed) value — some by as much as 10 per cent.”

– “When you look at Richmond, there’s been no changes in the single-family assessed values, yet the townhouse market has gone up 15 to 20 per cent, and condos are upwards of 35 per cent,” said Tina Ireland, an assessor with B.C. Assessment.”

– “There were 39 municipalities in B.C. where the average assessed value of residential properties rose more than 15 per cent in the last year. Just three of them were in Metro Vancouver, but 20 were on Vancouver Island.”

What you need to know about B.C.’s 2017 assessment values

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-assessment-values-1.4470645

#167 Yanniel on 01.03.18 at 9:43 pm

I am bookmarking this post. Loved it.

Cheer up Garth: The force is with you!

#168 Lapsang Souchong on 01.03.18 at 9:47 pm

#102 FitGeek on 01.03.18 at 8:06 pm

In 1964 & 1965 the minimum wage in Ontario was $1 (#1) ….
———–

How in H E double-hockey-stix did we get to $14 an hour without an economic collapse?! Where was Garth when we needed him most ????

#169 Andrew Woburn on 01.03.18 at 9:49 pm

Donald Trump Didn’t Want to Be President

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

#170 X on 01.03.18 at 9:51 pm

#80 john m on 01.03.18 at 7:32 pm
“You do not build anyone up by tearing others down”. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me…….so i guess your solution is keep the little people down and success will follow for the chosen few?

To qualify for a franchise requires $1.5 million in net worth and an investment of at least $500,000. It can take several years for cash flow to turn positive. Few franchises are available, but it sounds like you’re an ideal candidate.- Garth

Pretty sure that a new franchisee is required to have an MBA now as well. Tim’s does want smart franchise owners, who will succeed.

As per this example, the ‘wealthy’ owners are well educated, and have put a lot on the line to see the future potential profits of their stores.

They aren’t the select few who won a job lottery.

I would be curious to know the average education of a minimum wage worker, whom so many on here seem to defend, compared to the 1% who are also chastised for being wealthy.

Fwiw, my wife and I paid for our own educations, we did not have parents who paid for our advanced education.

#171 akashic record on 01.03.18 at 9:53 pm

To qualify for a franchise requires $1.5 million in net worth and an investment of at least $500,000. It can take several years for cash flow to turn positive.

—-

Not interested.
The stores have a really bad vibe.

#172 Mrs. Jones on 01.03.18 at 9:57 pm

#155 Smoking Man on 01.03.18 at 9:19 pm

….. God bless Donald Trump.

********
Ding Dongs are on sale at the Winn-Dixie. Get a crate.

#173 Ian on 01.03.18 at 9:58 pm

#73 Swiss Chalet

Don’t tell Mark! It will really screw up his delation theory.

#174 X on 01.03.18 at 9:59 pm

Funny too how people complain about the changes these people have made to their business, rather than applaud them for having given employees paid birthdays off, and paid breaks in the first place. How many businesses do that in the first place.

People only see the negative, it appears many of their employees may have had several years of great perks, lucky them.

#175 will on 01.03.18 at 9:59 pm

just curious if anyone knows whether TH has an ESOP (employee share ownership program).

#176 InflationProtection on 01.03.18 at 10:01 pm

“Save the Cheerleader, Save the World” – Heroes

Or…

“Buy Cryptos, Save yourself from Inflation” – Me

Seriously, there is a point to crypto-currencies. Some governments are making bad decisions that affect our power of purchase.

1- Poloz and his policies caused a 100k condo inflation within 2 years, for example.
2- China’s Yuan devaluation
3- Japan’s massive QE

Think about that. A currency that isn’t controlled by a few people.

Crypto currencies generate a higher yield than 8 countries 10-year bonds. That’s right. 0% is better than a negative number.

#177 akashic record on 01.03.18 at 10:01 pm

#154 PAM on 01.03.18 at 9:15 pm

What if the business owners, entrepreneurs and anyone with any ambition shut down their businesses, go on strike, take their wealth and disappear?

====

Probably the same if all the worker bees and / or the customers do the same.

The energy is the co-existence.

Anybody can find himself playing any of the roles some day. Behave accordingly.

#178 Millennial Realist on 01.03.18 at 10:03 pm

This blog tonight makes me feel like I am on another planet.

This blog is always informative and helpful.

But sometimes, the pro 1% approach here is so out of touch that it almost seems like a form of self-parody.

Reread this blog post at the end of 2019, Garth.

Then you may understand why Kathleen, Justin and Rachel all won their re-elections, and why we have a renewal of progressive and fair tax measures that will forever change society for the better.

Boomers, climb aboard the change.

Or be run over by it.

(PS – I have now seen or heard the Tim Horton’s story 6 times on various media in the last two hours. This will be devastating for that company, JMHO)

#179 Two-thirds on 01.03.18 at 10:04 pm

What a wonderful time to start a business! Instead of wasting time on social justice verbal fights with strangers on the web, I can’t wait to take all my savings, mortgage my house, cash in my kids RESPs, and sell my collectibles, all so (unlike the typical greedy business owner), I can bless my workers, by paying them more than minimum wage!!!!

I get all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it! Work my tail off, risking my money and my family’s future, so strangers can have a job and I can pay CPP, EI, and all manner of taxes, even BEYOND my fair share! Heck, why pay only $15/hour? I will set a high standard by paying $20/hour! Once my business is established and thriving I will reward my staff by giving them all 10% rises each year! After all, it is them who made it all possible, so it is the least I can do.

Oh, how will my greedy, unethical competitors hate me for attracting their top talent with my competitive wages and 2018-fair management practices! My customers will also l-o-v-e me for my fair-trade products and services and for avoiding the temptation to become a rich, greedy bastard, in spite of my high prices! I will embody the new Canadian dream!

Oh, how my employees and fellow Canadians will look up to me! I will finally show the way to run a business that puts people ahead of profit! I will pay the highest wages to strangers and avoid sharing a dime with any and all of my family members! What did they ever contribute to the success of my business anyway? If anything, they slowed me down with their constant demands for my time, guilt-tripping, and financial and emotional demands! Why can’t they understand my higher calling?

How thrilling it will be, avoiding the temptation of greedily saving funds within my business to watch them grow, but rather ending each of my years with the same balance as the start!

I will also avoid wintering away from Canada, or donating to charities, or launching foundations to help the less fortunate! This shall show to all that I do not do this just for the tax deduction. I will also pay myself only twice as much as my highest earning employee, in perpetuity. It is the right and moral thing to do.

Gotta go now, I have a full day of meetings with banks and venture capitalists; I cannot wait to share my vision with them and watch them fight over who wants to fund me more. I shall be able to raise capital for my business in no time, so noble, equitable, and just as it will be.

So, dogs, in return for the encouragement that your comments have given me to launch my business, I feel the need to give back. Any and all who reply within the next 24 hrs can get an equal share of my business, regardless of how much each contributes.

Any takers?

#180 boonerator on 01.03.18 at 10:06 pm

#95
Hmmm … maybe we need to go through another real turn of gloves-off socialism again. Even though we have really been moving to the left for years (consider all our rules and regulations, not to mention the size of government), many folks have no idea what actual top down socialism looks or feels like. Many immigrants escaped oppressive “socialist” regimes to get here so they can have the opportunity to build something on their own. I guess you don’t really know it, until you live it.
———————————————————-

What’s to worry about? When SCM gets the Social Justice Retribution League going, I can get the airport shift. Also known as “Kulaks out”.
In February we will look at the passport and tax return info for the last year for passengers coming in from points south. If their income shows more than 10% than that of SCM’s well, it’s AK47 time in the parking lot.

Obviously anyone doing better in life than SCM has cheated, lied and been an all around criminal.

#181 InvestorsFriend on 01.03.18 at 10:06 pm

Contributions in Kind

#121 will on 01.03.18 at 8:30 pm asked:
question regarding contributions in kind:

how about this for a strategy:

i have securities in my cash account that have fallen in value. i don’t want to sell them just yet. can i contribute them to my tfia (tax free investment account), then still use the capital loss against future gains in my cash account? what’s wrong with this strategy? thx.

************************************
Yes, I am pretty sure you can.

The only think wrong with the strategy was investing in those loser stocks in the first place.

The best strategy for taxes in a taxable investment account is pick good companies destined to rise (the banks may qualify) and keep them for decades and therefore never pay capital gains taxes or need losses to offset same. Ideally the portfolio will be so large eventually that you can just live off the dividends and never trigger the gain. Well, that would be the ideal!

#182 Protea on 01.03.18 at 10:07 pm

I am all for folks at the bottom end of the rung getting a livable salary but rather then a hefty percentage increase in one go it should be eased in over a period of many years.
Anyone been to Australia recently eating in a restaurant can be bloody expensive !! Minimum wage to be lifted by 3.3 per cent to $18.29 … 2017- The Australian. Now why have Australians have a reputation for being terrible and cheap tippers !! cause all these increases legislated by Provincial govts are ultimately passed onto the consumer. Guess what I am not the greatest tipper on average I do around 15% for decent service but from now on I will reduce my tip to between 5 to 10% !!!

#183 InvestorsFriend on 01.03.18 at 10:18 pm

Upon reflection in my last post I think I am wrong about transferring losers to the TFSA. I suppose that triggers superficial loss rules. You might have to sell and wait 30 days and then buy back if you still like those loss stocks.

Apologies, taxes are not my area of knowledge.

#184 Spock on 01.03.18 at 10:26 pm

Happy New Year GT and everyone. Back after 10 weeks of travelling.

I see that SCM is back to getting worked up and begrudging folks who have done well.

I had to lay off 2 employees on Dec 29 just in time to welcome the new year. Of course they knew it was coming and can thank Wynn and the lefties.

Let us raise the minimum wage to $100 per hour and all of us can live on the Government. Let the greedy business owners shut down their business – all are laid off and everyone is on welfare. Sounds something that should appeal to the lefties.

Our esteemed leader meanwhile is spending his official time welcoming Boyle and Co. – one must be a special person to have a private meeting with the PM.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-charges-or-no-it-was-odd-for-trudeau-to-meet-with-boyle-family

Boyle meanwhile has been charged with some 15 counts and now the PMO is tight lipped. What a fool our esteemed leader is turning out to be but he does have nice hair.

Onwards to $100 per hour wages everyone. SCM can take up the cause. :-)

#185 Spock on 01.03.18 at 10:29 pm

#183 InvestorsFriend on 01.03.18 at 10:18 pm

Correct. Cannot claim the losses.

If assets are transferred in kind then must pay the capital gains if there are profits (but cannot claim losses).

——————-
#183 InvestorsFriend on 01.03.18 at 10:18 pm
Upon reflection in my last post I think I am wrong about transferring losers to the TFSA. I suppose that triggers superficial loss rules. You might have to sell and wait 30 days and then buy back if you still like those loss stocks.

Apologies, taxes are not my area of knowledge.

#186 Ace Goodheart on 01.03.18 at 10:29 pm

Pizza delivery guys are independent contractors who are paid a low base hourly stipend and earn most of their income from tips.

The 16 year old will not be making $15.00 per hour. Minimum wage for students is less.

You are correct this will cause things to cost more. The most noticeable changes will be increases in prices to things like coffee, fast food and groceries. Other more hidden changes will be office rents (cleaners now cost more, though about 1/2 of the night time office cleaners in Toronto are paid cash and are considered temporary contract staff – hired and fired every six months so they never actually get pay stubs).

They might try flattening the management structure. North Americans have this idea that the person in charge shouldn’t actually be doing anything (unless they get incentives and bonuses). If the person in charge was also the person running the till, you would see a real increase in quality of service.

There is no point in having a precariously supported, below the poverty line workforce in your country. If that means paying people more (and it does) then we’ll have to figure that out.

There is also no point to millionaire finance ministers who change tax laws to penalize small business people. No point to him at all. Or his pot smoking PM.

But that is an argument for another day………

#187 bring_it_on on 01.03.18 at 10:32 pm

# 170 X

“You do not build anyone up by tearing others down”. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me…….so i guess your solution is keep the little people down and success will follow for the chosen few?

Fwiw, my wife and I paid for our own educations, we did not have parents who paid for our advanced education.

———————————————————–

My wife and I grew up in households
where there was barely food on the table, witnessing first-hand the effect on our families of ill-willed employers keeping wages down and working conditions rather dire. We both put ourselves through advanced training, and although we have climbed far up the ladder WE HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN OUR ROOTS AND HAVE SOME EMPATHY FOR THOSE ADULTS (NOT 16 year olds) WHO STRUGGLE AT A MINIMUM WAGE. I have no envy of wealthy business owners who have done well, but draw the line when that success is achieved on the backs of the people at the bottom of the rung (who may have difficult circumstances) of the employment ladder. As Garth says, “there is no need to build anyone up by tearing others down”; this should also apply to the bottom end of the spectrum as well.. Garth’s Agenda post on the 29th was a clear example of tearing down the people at the bottom. If a company can only succeed by having a minimum wage fixed at 8 bucks an hour for a decade as it was in BC, in my view we have a major problem.

———————————————–

# 126 Long-Time

you can check this out for yourself. Go to your local public library and pick up a copy of the distinguished British magazine The Economist. Whether it is the current issue or a back issue doesn’t matter. Spain, Greece, and South Africa will be easy to locate in the table near the back, which lists data for various countries.
— Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. His website is http://www.tsowell.com.
—————————————-

First of all, my first job for a four-year period was at Stanford in the late 1980s. The Hoover institute is the prime example of a right-wing think tank. How about for balance we discuss and debate Noam Chomsky’s (MIT) documentary, “Requiem for the American Dream” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3270538/

Secondly, how does Australia and New Zealand function so well with a decent minimum-wage (no resemblance to Greece or Spain that I can see). Their economies are doing just fine thank you. Perhaps we in Canada can join them.

#188 Spock on 01.03.18 at 10:32 pm

More comments like the below and SCM and followers will not be able to sleep at night. Still waiting to hear details of SCM having moved to another country.

Maybe it is not as easy as thought previously especially when you tell the Government that you want to move and live off the Government dole.

————————

#174 X on 01.03.18 at 9:59 pm
Funny too how people complain about the changes these people have made to their business, rather than applaud them for having given employees paid birthdays off, and paid breaks in the first place. How many businesses do that in the first place.

People only see the negative, it appears many of their employees may have had several years of great perks, lucky them.

#189 45north on 01.03.18 at 10:34 pm

Across the country, 8% of the workforce is at minimum wage. Most of the jobs are entry-level, unskilled or part-time, but provide on-location training as well as that all-important asset of experience. Min-wage workers form the backbone of the food service industry, for example, where margins are often thin because of rising location rents and extended hours. Forcing a 29% increase in labour costs on small biz owners over two years is nothing short of extreme. There will be consequences, as the central bankers warn. Sixty thousand people will go from employed to unemployed. And prices rise.

Business in Ottawa faces direct competition from Gatineau Quebec – a five minute drive across the river. Unlike the Greater Toronto Area which has no competition.

Ontario’s $15 an hour minimum wage not coming to Quebec any time soon

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-minimum-wage-ontario-couillard-1.4137926

Tim Hortons on the Quebec side is going to have an advantage over Tim Hortons on the Ontario side – stores more profitable, owners more willing to upgrade the stores, nicer stores.

There is direct competition between Casino du Lac-Leamy in Gatineau and the Rideau Carleton Raceway in Ottawa. Hard Rock International is taking over the Rideau Carleton Raceway with big ambitions:

We believe there’s a lot of opportunity to grow and prosper in the area,” Allen said, noting that the company thinks there’s a strong gambling market in the Ottawa area, even when there’s a big competitor in the Casino du Lac-Leamy in Gatineau.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/rideau-carleton-raceway-set-to-become-the-hard-rock-casino-ottawa

One summer, my son had a job on the Sea Prince II – a cruise boat on the Ottawa. Cruise boats based on the Quebec side will have an advantage – for that matter so will marinas and yacht clubs.

Here’s a pitch to bring industries to the Gatineau Airport:

http://www.aeroportdegatineau.com/en/entreprises.html

raising the minimum wage in Ontario – a real boost for Quebec!

#190 joblo on 01.03.18 at 10:36 pm

Always wondered who sits in vehicles forever for krap koffee and dohnuts were.

Now I get it.

#191 Fish on 01.03.18 at 10:44 pm

have you ever seen that commercial on TV wirh Santa
thinking about Duracell battery, anyway he is outside without his jacket in the middle of no where, vehicle gets repro his deer takes off, leaves him, wow what luck, lessons it’s all lessons

#192 down_boy on 01.03.18 at 10:48 pm

Implications of this news on this reader = 0%

Minimum wage legislation = Failed education system.
Inability to pay minimum wage = Failed business plan.

#193 Dmitry on 01.03.18 at 10:48 pm

#125 Screwed Canadian Millennial
“Honestly if these entrepreneurial geniuses rely on cheap labour and TFWs to stay in business, maybe they’re crap at running a business?”

So why dont you open your own fast food business and prove you’re great at running it, compensating workers above minimum wage, pluss free breaks, 100% benefits, 4 week paid vacation the first year and 5 week paid vacation after 3 years?
I’m sure you’ll be very successfull :-)

BTW I make my own coffe and sanwiches, do you?
I’m sure many more people will be making their own cofee and sandwiches soon too.

#194 Mark on 01.03.18 at 10:52 pm

“i have securities in my cash account that have fallen in value. i don’t want to sell them just yet. can i contribute them to my tfia (tax free investment account), then still use the capital loss against future gains in my cash account? what’s wrong with this strategy? thx.”

The capital loss in such circumstance will be denied if you or a related entity (ie: a RRSP or TFSA trust that you control) purchase an identical property.

“The Income Tax Act defines a superficial loss to be a loss from the sale of a particular property where the same or identical property is acquired by the individual, or an affiliated person, during the period beginning 30 calendar days before the sale and ending 30 calendar days after the sale.”

#195 Long Branch Apprentice on 01.03.18 at 10:56 pm

#118 Screwed Canadian Millennial

Which McD’s you at buddy? King and Dufferin?

See those automated kiosks?

Exactly.

#196 Pache Villa on 01.03.18 at 11:00 pm

Excerpt from Economic Guerilla Handbook pg. 14

Start a Timmy’s Idle no More movement in your household.

Step 1.
Buy coffee
Step 2.
Add hot water

If successful, also try brown bagging it for a day or two.
Let’s teach those Capitalists we mean business!

#197 Dmitry on 01.03.18 at 11:05 pm

#179 Two-thirds

That’s just awesome!

#198 Nonplused on 01.03.18 at 11:05 pm

#127 techinical analysis?

Why don’t we ban bossy people who want to tell everyone else how to live?

#199 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 11:12 pm

#195 Long Branch Apprentice on 01.03.18 at 10:56 pm

The kiosks that were there before the min wage increases? The kiosks that exist in other countries where wages are much lower?

It’s not just the US: Chinese factories are turning to automation as wages rise
https://qz.com/1009878/chinese-factories-are-also-turning-to-automation-as-wages-rise/

Chinese factory replaces 90% of human workers with robots. Production rises by 250%, defects drop by 80%
https://www.zmescience.com/other/economics/china-factory-robots-03022017/

Conservatives have been programmed by their owners to believe that if they just offer to work for peanuts, their jobs won’t be automated. Guess what, your owners can’t wait to automate your job.

#200 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 11:15 pm

#30 millmech on 01.03.18 at 6:34 pm
#8 SCM
Friends daughter works at a plant…

Sounds like this place

http://projects.thestar.com/temp-employment-agencies/index.html

You know, if we actually stopped flooding the labour market with tons of excess cheap slave labour, not only would wages rise but job quality would improve dramatically. That is exactly what is happening in the US.

#201 For those about to flop... on 01.03.18 at 11:16 pm

Pink Snow falling in Surrey.

I remember this case from last year,back on the market after a 3 or 4 month break.

Not looking any better with a change in the calendar.

Picked up for 1.32 in August 2016 and have been trying to get the bulk of their money back since at least December 2016 when they first started asking 1.45.

Assessment just rolled back from 1.25 to 1.17 they are in tough on this one.

No Happy Hour at The Malabar…

M43AZ

13697 Malabar Avenue, Surrey

Jul 8:$1,350,000
Jan 2: $1,188,000
Change: – 162000.00 -12%

https://www.zolo.ca/white-rock-real-estate/13697-malabar-avenue

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDA3NUZNQQ==

#202 Izzo on 01.03.18 at 11:16 pm

What I find disturbing about your attitude Garth is that you show no humanity to the weak in our society. Yes forcing business to pay more is not ideal however the laws and rules are placed by wealthy people that make it virtually impossible for the lowest rungs of our society to move up. You can’t set the rules for them to fail then complain when the rules are changed to rectify an injustice. Further more the wealthy always feel superior to the common citizen and therefore should not pay their fair share for the proper function of our society. Capitalism is good but only with strong regulation to ensure no one is crushed by its lack of humanity. Maybe you can look in the mirror too Garth and ask yourself if the price of your success should be the stripping off dignity from the less fortunate.

Just my 2 cents

Two cents is more than you paid to come here to my pro bono blog. Get stuffed. – Garth

#203 Dean Wackam on 01.03.18 at 11:18 pm

If this was a big deal, wouldn’t all the food service / restaurant stocks on the TSX be crashing now because of the 30% new “tax” on their profits?

After three days? – Garth

#204 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 11:19 pm

#74 Trojan House on 01.03.18 at 7:25 pm
By the way, SCM, I’ll take you up on that wager. Who ever loses has to buy the ice cream at Belfountain GS.

I’ll win both bets. There will be way more workers employed at the end of 2018 than at the beginning, as per Statscan.

And there sure as hell won’t be 21% inflation.

Easy win. I donate my TWO SCOOPS to Smokey.

#205 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.03.18 at 11:23 pm

#193 Dmitry on 01.03.18 at 10:48 pm
#125 Screwed Canadian Millennial
So why dont you open your own fast food business and prove you’re great at running it, compensating workers above minimum wage, pluss free breaks, 100% benefits, 4 week paid vacation the first year and 5 week paid vacation after 3 years?
I’m sure you’ll be very successfull :-)

——————————-

How in the world can I compete with a slave master who imports a dozen TFWs on the cheap, probably doesn’t even have to get an LMIA, pays no fees, and houses them all in a little apartment and deducts their rent straight off their cheque.

He gets to exploit them, unpaid overtime, holidays (I see this first hand in my area), and if one of them dares complain he simply deports them. They have ZERO labour mobility.

If I hired Canadians (and this is the only way I would do business because I’m not a traitor/exploiter/slaver), I would literally be a competitive disadvantage in my own country.

Did I mention there’s no labour shortage?

#206 k on 01.03.18 at 11:27 pm

Garth I am so far from ”first” I’m sure you will hopefully be having a wonderful sleep ! just want to say you really have a way with words and combined with your wit….produces a cornucopia of the confluence . Love you but not in “the wild thing” kind of way ! Keep up the good work ! Love (sic) k

#207 Horatio Algernon on 01.03.18 at 11:30 pm

#179 Two-thirds on 01.03.18 at 10:04 pm

What a wonderful time to start a business! ……. Any and all who reply within the next 24 hrs can get an equal share of my business, regardless of how much each contributes.

Any takers?
***********
Well…. maybe. Do you make, or sell, or do anything unique and useful? I’m anti-unhealthy anything, so fast food is a no. Pet stores are prisons so nix to that. Anything sold in a mall is plastic garbage produced by off-shore slaves, not my forte. Digital anything is so yesterday. Pot looks ok but I fear the homegrown competition. A bank job would be sweet, but suits are too confining. If you are into something people actually need and can’t get on Amazon I’m in. Say a 10% share to start and we’ll go from there. If you last more than a year we can revisit the terms. Unless you are a professional, in which case we can share the “risks” ;-).

#208 ben on 01.03.18 at 11:30 pm

come on Garth that’s weak stuff. Talk about the actual problems.

Here is what people have a problem with: rentiers. Unearned wealth appropriation via exploitation such as high rents and farming people through land.

Tim Hortons is a great example. How many wives are working there who would like to have one parent at home? Used to be an option. But then the bankers started lending to both “incomes” so now land costs both incomes because available credit sets prices.

You have a responsibility to do what economists regularly did in the 19th century and early 20th Century:

spell out the difference between rentier and wealth *creation*

Otherwise we are indeed doomed to the politics of envy. The calls for taxing the rich (irrespective of their contribution to society).

What we can’t have is just dismissing the have-nots as envious. Can’t you see that’s not working? You are losing this battle – change tactics.

Rentiers? You mean the people who provide you accommodation after investing large sums of money? How is that “unearned wealth appropriation”? – Garth

#209 ben on 01.03.18 at 11:32 pm

Loving these comments on stuff costing more.

God damn it. The cost of land has gone up *massively*. Whilst wages flat-lined.

It’s the bankers my myopic friends.

#210 For those about to flop... on 01.03.18 at 11:34 pm

Pink Snow falling in West Vancouver.

I think it’s fair to say these guys could be in trouble despite still aiming for a double digit gain before expenses.

Picked up for 1.95 in April 2016 ,which at the time was a whopping 600k over assessment,even though they just got a bump in that department it still came in well short at 1.69

Could still get out alright ,but the older detached properties aren’t the flavour of the month ,or the year for that matter…

M43AZ

340 Bayview Road, West Vancouver

Aug 10:$2,298,000
Jan 2: $2,190,000
Change: – 108000.00 -5%

https://www.zolo.ca/lions-bay-real-estate/340-bayview-road

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAyQTJLTg==

#211 Steven on 01.03.18 at 11:35 pm

If people can afford what they pay for gas, food, utilities, car payments, etc. etc.. and hardly if ever complain then 20 cents more for a coffee to cover payroll no one is going to complain either. These jobs at Timmy’s are a dime a dozen. I would just walk and leave. But we as Canadians just complain and do nothing like a herd of sheep. In the States if a Tim’s pulled something like that the employees wouldn’t show up the next day.

#212 Cherry Picker on 01.03.18 at 11:39 pm

The increase doesn’t only help 16 year-olds. It gives a boost to anyone making less than $15. That will be more than 8% of the workforce. I doubt 60000 jobs will be lost. Some economists feel reasonably raising minimum wages will give the working poor more to spend, and they spend a greater portion than higher paid people, so it is actually an economic stimulus. This could lead to job gains, not loses, as people who spend a greater portion of their wages have a little more to spend. These people who get raises may even buy more timbits. I guess we will have to wait a few months to see if jobs are really lost or gained. Right now it sounds like everyone is just guessing.

#213 ben on 01.03.18 at 11:46 pm

Garth that isn’t what rentiers means mate. Read any economics book including Adam Smith.

https://www.prosper.org.au/about/geoists-in-history/adam-smith-on-the-rentier/

It could be sitting on intellectual property. Domain name squatting, hoping to extract money from a company that needs the domain name. It could be sitting on land you bought up cheap because you suspect a train station will be built near it.

It is specifically not: building a house to add value and then renting it out.

#214 A Yank in BC on 01.03.18 at 11:49 pm

My favorite restaurant in this forlorn town raised all it’s prices (about 10-15%) in the week between Christmas and New Years day. I couldn’t help but notice that there were noticeably fewer customers at lunch today than one would normally see. Coincidence? I doubt it.

#215 Newcomer on 01.03.18 at 11:55 pm

What a pair of whiny losers. I guess they were expecting minimum wage to lag behind inflation forever and so didn’t budget for the inevitable. (I run a business in Seattle, including entry level employees, and made sure I was well in front of similar hikes. It’s not hard.) Now they are slashing benefits. Those benefits were no doubt there for the purpose of employee retention. Cut them and their employees will go to greener pastures. Jeri, Ron, and Lisa can then use the money they save on benefits for retaining new employees. Smooth move.

Employee turn over, in combination with having bitched about their franchiser to their staff, should make for the 2018 they deserve. The free market is a great source of karma.

#216 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 12:01 am

# 212 Ben

By your definition then, how is someone running a business that adds value a rentier? They may even lease the land they operate on. The only real rentiers are the banks who lend out far more than they take in deposits and demand to be repaid with interest.

#217 Smoking Man on 01.04.18 at 12:01 am

The Truth is closer than you think.

#218 Chelsea on 01.04.18 at 12:03 am

That is why we need Unions … there are pro’s and con’s … but, believe me better the Unions than none… especially in the workforce. Have seen so much corruption in his work place when my husband was working. We made a complaint where money was owing … did not receive it… just an agreement. It was a total sham. This government should be ashamed of itself.. they don’t care about the little man.. just how they can rip him/her off.

Nothing has changed, and it won’t …

#219 Fake News Again on 01.04.18 at 12:07 am

Meanwhile the average Govt worker makes 100K per year with benefits and pensions. Pensions that there is NO MONEY in the bank to pay for.

Expect higher and higher and higher taxes……and for people like Climate Barbie to claim the carbon tax to fund the pensions……is to save the environment.

#220 Gil on 01.04.18 at 12:09 am

Screwed Canadian Millenial
I have never posted but your constant abuse of evidence forced me to. Time and again you use Seattle as an example of success when it comes to increase in minimal wage. I do not know if you knew but Seattle authorities commissioned a multiyear study from a University of Washington to assess the results of the increase. Here is the second year assessment (first year was admittedly very inconclusive for data lag reason)
https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER%20Working%20Paper.pdf

If it’s too much for you to read, here is the narrative of the findings:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.f2105c09b805

The paper’s conclusions contradict years of research on the minimum wage. Many past studies, by contrast, have found that the benefits of increases for low-wage workers exceed the costs in terms of reduced employment — often by a factor of four or five to one.

“This strikes me as a study that is likely to influence people,” said David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not involved in the research. He called the work “very credible” and “sufficiently compelling in its design and statistical power that it can change minds.”

#221 Calguy on 01.04.18 at 12:25 am

@screwed can millennial – you say seattle’s 4 % unemployment is because of minimum wage hike? You are smoking weed illegally! It is because of low taxes on businesses and the Amazon effect. Many head offices there like Costco, Starbucks etc and it is in a boom. A study published looking at Seattle said the wage hike has resulted in less hours and some staff reductions in min wage jobs. Your attitude implies entitlement. Just like JT.

#222 prairie person on 01.04.18 at 12:28 am

With all the ranting about minimum wage, the cost of accommodation has been momentarily forgotten. I would just like to point out that the Times Colonist has a lot of information on property assessments today. The kind of issue to tuck away so it can be accessed at any time. A lot of houses at 4 mil. Some a lot more. Yesterday, when I found that my house and yard had gone up 200,000, I was flabbergasted. Huh! Why It is a very ordinary three bedroom bungalow. Decent neighbourhood but not classy like Oak Bay where the average house is now over a million dollars. I am really skeptical about these assessments. A house just down the street is being advertised at around 900k. for months now. In any case no minimum wagers are going to be buying anything in Victoria or on Vancouver Island. Salt Spring Island has a huge number of unemployed, homeless people. We have 2000 plus people a year dying of overdoses. Nobody I know is lazy. Everyone is looking for a job that pays a living wage. For some reason, A Tale of Two Cities keeps coming to mind. The French Revolution, many other revolutions. I am not recommending it. Just observing history. It is always the same. When all wealth is gathered up by the few society ceases to function.

#223 Frank on 01.04.18 at 12:51 am

You do not build anyone up by tearing others down. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me.

https://www.amazon.ca/Myth-Measurement-Economics-Minimum-Wage/dp/0691048231/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515044679&sr=8-1&keywords=0691048231

Minimum wage isn’t about tearing others down. It’s about preventing exploitation.

Area with poor/no public transit and low labour mobility? The working poor can’t afford long commutes or even vehicles and therefore have few choices of employment. This leads to exploitative situations where the “fair market” wage payed by an employer is extremely lower than nearby because they know a poor person has no other option. Min wage laws protect the most vulnerable people so cut this small business victimhood crap. It’s not supported by research.

We get it. You’re a Conservative ideologue. You oppose any kind of tax or regulation. Except when it’s legalizing pot. You want that to be regulated and don’t want to enable those business owners to create jobs. Weird. Hard to be consistent when you constantly have to stick to an ideology.

#224 Smoking Man on 01.04.18 at 12:52 am

DELETED

#225 Hawk on 01.04.18 at 12:59 am

To all “paid up”, honest to goodness, certified, in good standing, card carrying, members of the amalgamated union of Canadian Communists:

1. Is anyone stopping you from starting your own business?

2. Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to work for anyone else?

3. Has anyone forcibly deprived you of equal opportunity to acquire any license trade?

4. Were you as a prisoner of war, or by any other unforeseen circumstance forced into a position of indentured servitude?

5. Are you somehow a relic of a bygone age of feudalism, when a warlord or strongman rode in to town with his henchman and forcibly extracted from you a share of your crop, harvest, livestock etc?

6. Did economic goods and services in Canada fall out of the sky ……..much like “Manna from heaven” with which God fed the Israelites as they wandered in the wilderness……..but you somehow were asleep and your countrymen took them all.

And if not, then how exactly have the rest of your fellow Canadians wronged you, in the pursuit of earning our livelihoods?

#226 Wayne Kenoff on 01.04.18 at 1:18 am

Screwed Canadian Millennial takes a lot of heat for his comments but he is bang on about one thing at least. Temporary Foreign Workers are depressing wages for Canadian workers. Without TFW’s, maybe wages would have increased by competition for labour. You know, instead of legislating increases.

#227 Cloudy on 01.04.18 at 1:50 am

#58 cultural elitist on 01.03.18 at 7:12 pm

It’s refreshing to see a post as intelligent as yours.

#228 Blessed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 2:04 am

Trojan House on 01.03.18 at 7:25 pm
What it comes down to is that we’re arguing about basically an unpaid lunch. Not a big deal in my opinion because most of us have the same thing. I do. My day is 8 hours, one of which is unpaid. A previous job was 9 hours with one hour unpaid. My wife gets a half hour unpaid “break” and she doesn’t work in the fast food business. So SCM don’t get your underwear in a knot.

By the way, SCM, I’ll take you up on that wager. Who ever loses has to buy the ice cream at Belfountain GS.

——-

I’d also like to get in on this bet.

When prominent economists and Bank of Canada are calling for wage loss, well, this seems to be an easy winner and free icecream.

#229 diharv on 01.04.18 at 2:18 am

Who ever come up with the idea that minimum wage should equate to a living wage ? Minimum wage is just that , minimum because it is compensation for work that can be considered as entry level , or unskilled , or part time , or casual , or for students . Most if not all of these jobs that pay minimum wage are not meant to be positions that one makes a lifelong career out of . If one is in a minimum wage job and wants more , then take the initiative and look for another job , or acquire a skill or go to school or (gasp) start up your own business . Hard reality but thats the way it is . To think that more jobs will be created out of this by thinning the margins out of many businesses that are already razor thin is leftist folly.

#230 Mike in Vancouver on 01.04.18 at 2:37 am

Sorry, Garth. I think you’re right a lot of the time but here you’re wrong. Cost of living has outpaced income. Teenagers are already being replaced by robo-cashiers at supermarkets. They can go do some of the gig-economy shitty contract jobs. The single moms and immigrants working minimum wage deserve better. Businesses will adjust.

#231 NoName on 01.04.18 at 2:40 am

This is how I felt on my last day of work when I got canned few yrs back…
I simpatize with you all soon to be unemployed working stiff.

https://m.imgur.com/a/tSkKz

#232 Blessed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 2:45 am

Moses and Bella on 01.03.18 at 8:36 pm
Garth what are your ideas or solutions for the growing problem of inequality?

————

More important question should be: why do you think that the inequality is a problem?

#233 NoName on 01.04.18 at 4:03 am

Interesting reads

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/01/google-maps-no-longer-lets-you-post-negative-reviews-about-your-crappy-job/

—-

Long oil,

4/5 of electric cars are leases. I wonder did “smart” phone battery already did demage on consumer brain.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-03/why-most-electric-cars-are-leased-not-owned

Almost 80 percent of battery-powered vehicles in the U.S. are leased, not owned.

—-

I guess firing people, doesn’t make remaining people work faster… Funny that article says what is going with tes la is just part of growing pain in electric car manufacturing, but same people are quick to say that electric car is simpler over gas car. Funny if electric car is simpler so does manufacturing should be, or they are not telling us whole truth.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/stock-market-news/articles/2018-01-02/tesla-inc-tsla-stock

Long gold I guess.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-02/north-korean-hackers-hijack-computers-to-mine-cryptocurrencies

Global warning I his is not working, sharks are freazing to deat…

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xw4gxk/its-so-cold-outside-that-sharks-are-actually-freezing-to-death-vgtrn

—-

On a weekend I watched both blade runners, memory was real but she didn’t told him that wasn’t his…

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/02/scientists-get-closer-to-replicating-human-sperm/

#234 Blessed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:42 am

Gil on 01.04.18 at 12:09 am
Screwed Canadian Millenial
I have never posted but your constant abuse of evidence forced me to. Time and again you use Seattle as an example of success when it comes to increase in minimal wage. I do not know if you knew but Seattle authorities commissioned a multiyear study from a University of Washington to assess the results of the increase. Here is the second year assessment (first year was admittedly very inconclusive for data lag reason)
https://evans.uw.edu/sites/default/files/NBER%20Working%20Paper.pdf

If it’s too much for you to read, here is the narrative of the findings:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.f2105c09b805

The paper’s conclusions contradict years of research on the minimum wage. Many past studies, by contrast, have found that the benefits of increases for low-wage workers exceed the costs in terms of reduced employment — often by a factor of four or five to one.

————

Gil, I already posted the above link to SCM a while back… but no response from him/her, as always.

#235 Big Daddy on 01.04.18 at 4:54 am

McJobs were always supposed to be for McKids to gain experience……after school , not for a 45 year old to raise a brood on. Blame the Trudeaus and Obamas of the world for keeping a boot on the neck of the business engine. Look at what Trump has done in months…..and why his success has the globalists in a panic. Poor people voted for Trump because they wanted freedom from oppressive socialism……people in Canada aren’t poor enough yet.

#236 Adrian on 01.04.18 at 5:30 am

#52 satans on 01.03.18 at 7:05 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/what-billionaires-say-about-universal-basic-income-in-2017.html

*****

Great link! I think Zuckerberg made a brilliant point when he recognized that coming from a family that could financially support him while he took risks gave him the freedom to fail. (Young Bill Gates was much the same.)

“If I had to support my family growing up instead of having time to code, if I didn’t know I’d be fine if Facebook didn’t work out, I wouldn’t be standing here today,” said Zuckerberg. “The greatest successes come from having the freedom to fail.”

0.01%er Nick Hanauer acknowledges this as well when he points out in the following TedTalk that if he had been born somewhere people couldn’t afford to buy his products or where lack of infrastructure is a barrier to opportunity, he may have spent his life selling roadside produce instead of starting several highly successful companies.

Beware, fellow plutocrats, the pitchforks are coming
https://youtu.be/q2gO4DKVpa8

“When workers have more money, businesses have more customers and need more workers,” says Nick Hanauer. “When restaurants pay restaurant workers enough so that even they can eat in restaurants, that’s not bad for the restaurant business. That’s good for it.” (I may not agree with the health impact of this diet, but economically, Hanauer may as well be channeling Henry Ford.)

#64 Sam the Sham on 01.03.18 at 7:17 pm

Sam the Sham also makes a point worth mentioning here that imposing higher standards for everyone simultaneously can sometimes be necessary to offset countervailing ‘race-to-the-bottom’ market dynamics.

Even if there are some small costs to raising the minimum wage, the ‘Theory of the Second Best’ teaches us that sometimes two economic ‘wrongs’ *can* make a ‘right.’ In other words, providing workers at the bottom with incomes sufficient to participate more fully in society can help prevent more serious problems that would otherwise develop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_second_best

For example, higher levels of inequality burden society & the economy with lower health outcomes for every income decile, as well as higher rates of mental illness, crime, & violence, with all the resultant costs. (I’m sorry for repeating myself on this point, but it’s important.)

https://inequality.org/facts/inequality-and-health/
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-negative-effects-of-income-inequality-on-society-2011-11
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652881/
http://news.berkeley.edu/2014/12/09/dominancebehavior/
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/338347?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
http://news.stanford.edu/2017/01/24/stanford-historian-uncovers-grim-correlation-violence-inequality-millennia/

It’s also important to realize that more than half of all workers who earn less than $15/hr are not youth, but actually 25 and older (see Table 3).

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/who-earns-minimum-wage

Not everyone is able to acquire more marketable skills, for one reason or another, but they still need to live and Canada’s real estate & tuition(!) costs have been rising at rates well above CPI inflation rates for a long time.

“The Bank of Canada’s handy inflation calculator tells us that $1,000 tuition back in 1984 would cost $2,028 today if it increased just by the inflation rate annually. But according to Statistics Canada, the latest read on average tuition fees is $5,366.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/2012-vs-1984-young-adults-really-do-have-it-harder-today/article4105604/

Furthermore, fully one third of all women in Canada are paid less than $15/hr vs. 22% of all men. Between not being able to work during childbirth & requiring more time off to fulfill various responsibilities as their family’s primary caregiver, markets may well consider women less desirable employees deserving less compensation, but are we really okay with a world where women are paid less for doing exactly the same work? (Markets often reflect power dynamics more than marginal utility.)

As for youth unemployment, I’m sympathetic to the potential problem that raising the minimum wage can cause here but I think a valuable solution would be to expand organizational & financial supports for youth & student co-op employment, as well as return to providing tuition grants for apprentices & students in high demand fields, as we did back when my dad got his trade. These are excellent ways to help youth & students to get *much* better work experience than some McJob, as I can personally attest.

The Bank of Canada report is hardly alarmist, despite the headline job-loss numbers of 60k by 2019. They are projecting 0.1% increase to inflation for 2018 & 2019, 0.1% decrease to GDP growth over the same period, & 0.7% increase to the national level of *real* wages by 2019. Overall, the report expects that – except for any increases to interest rates that may result – there will be a small net benefit to workers despite the lost jobs.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/san2017-26.pdf

One problem I have with their methodology – as with most neoclassical analysis – is the heavy reliance on general equilibrium models rather than structurally accurate complex systems models. Unfortunately, this renders their projections somewhat suspect.

I am particularly concerned that the BoC’s projections for declining GDP growth don’t accord with the following evidence, which strongly suggests that increasing worker compensation has historically had a *much* higher effect than corporate profits on growing Gross Domestic Income (GDI), which measures GDP from the income side (r^2 of 0.88 vs 0.26).

While personal consumption is 56% of Canada’s economy vs 70% for the US – and so this effect will be less pronounced north of the border – a 1% increase in worker compensation as a proportion of GDP has historically produced 0.9% increase in US GDI growth.

“Corporate Profits as a percentage of GDP are currently sitting at 60-year highs. Compensation as a percentage of GDP are at 60-year lows. GDP is driven by employee compensation, not corporate profits, because one, consumption makes up a much higher percentage, and two, money in the pockets of consumers is spent at a much higher rate than that of corporations. The answer to the question, ‘who will win out, corporate profits or worker compensation?’ is clear. If worker compensation gains GDP market share, both compensation and corporate profits will rebound.”

https://seekingalpha.com/article/3821196-corporate-profits-vs-worker-compensation-will-win-part-ii?page=2

My dad was a small business owner for most of my life, so I’m sympathetic to small business owners – who often don’t have access to favourable interest rates & economies of scale that fatten margins, large budgets for capital investments that improve labour productivity, or teams of lawyers that can penetrate bureaucracies & intimidate competitors/workers/governments, etc. However, I also agree with others here who have suggested that businesses need to be profitable *without* paying subsistence wages to their employees.

(And, I thought labour-saving automation was another word for improving productivity. Higher wages spur investments that raise productivity, which can support even higher wages in a virtuous cycle – unless worker bargaining power is insufficient to extract these gains, which has been the case for much of the past forty years. Are we really complaining about growing the economy’s capacity to raise living standards? Luddite! LOL!)

I absolutely recognize that corporate profits are necessary to generate sufficient investment to prevent recessions. However, as the previous link noted – and the following link makes abundantly clear – corporate profits are well above their historical average and this is having negative effects on GDP growth.

“Until recently, a profit share of GDP of 6% was perceived to be a cyclical peak; no less than Warren Buffet deemed a higher level to be unsustainable. And in fact, we see an explosion of profit share from 6% to 10% of GDP in the run-up to the crisis, roughly from 2003 to 2007. The ‘rescue the banks and financial markets’ measures succeeded in bringing the profit share back to its pre-crisis levels [9-10%], at the expense of workers.”

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/11/corporate-profit-margins-vs-wages-in-one-disturbing-chart.html

In other words, in advanced capitalist economies where personal consumption makes up the bulk of the economy, a larger workers’ share is in fact good for the corporate bottom-line. (Canada’s only real concern should be any effect this may have on the competitiveness of our exports.) The saying ‘a rising tide lifts all boats’ should really refer to a growing middle class raising corporate profits, because giving a smaller percentage of the pie to corporate profits (up to a point) actually creates a *larger* pie that ultimately *increases* the size of everyone’s slice! (That almost sounds like a free lunch… And now I’m hungry!)

#237 Under the radar on 01.04.18 at 5:50 am

Some of the twisted musings on this blog are scary. Just because I have more than the next guy does not mean I exploited my workers to get it or did not risk my capital . If you can build a better mousetrap go ahead, but why take shots at people who run a business. The external trappings of success do not show the late hours, the sacrifices , the mistakes , the mounds of regulations , audits , Wsib, etc.

#238 Adrian on 01.04.18 at 6:43 am

#220 Gil on 01.04.18 at 12:09 am

From the article you referenced:

“When Vigdor and his colleagues examined the overall number of workers at small firms with a single location, they did not find that employment had decreased. That fact could suggest that small businesses have responded to the increase not by downsizing but instead by hiring more experienced workers.”

Also, from another Washington Post article:

“First, their data exclude workers at businesses that have more than one location; in other words, while workers at a standalone mom-and-pop restaurant show up in their results, workers at Starbucks and McDonald’s don’t. Almost 40 percent of workers in Washington state work at multi-location businesses, and since Seattle’s minimum wage increase has been larger at large businesses than at small ones — $13.50 an hour [vs] $11 an hour — these workers’ exclusion from the study’s results is an especially germane problem (note that low-wage workers in Seattle have had an incentive to switch from small firms to large firms since the minimum wage started rising). In earlier work, in fact, the University of Washington team’s results were different depending on whether these workers were included in their analysis; including them made the effects of the minimum wage look more positive.

“Second, the University of Washington team does not present enough data for us to assess the validity of its ‘synthetic control’ in Washington — that is, the set of areas to which they compare the results they observe in Seattle.

“The Berkeley researchers take a better approach. They construct the synthetic control in their study using an algorithm that matches Seattle with counties across the United States that are similar in terms of population size and a variety of economic characteristics. They use a publicly available data set — the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages (QCEW) — and include multi-location businesses in their analysis. They find much more plausible estimates of Seattle’s minimum wage increase on worker wages — each 10 percent increase in Seattle’s minimum wage is associated with a 2.3 percent increase in wages at limited-service restaurants in their study, for instance — and no statistically significant employment effects.”

Seattle’s higher minimum wage is actually working just fine
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/06/27/seattles-higher-minimum-wage-is-actually-working-just-fine/?utm_term=.90bb8bc1d205

#239 Dan on 01.04.18 at 7:06 am

“Profit is not the explanation, cause, or rationale of business behavior and business decisions, but rather the test of their validity.” – Peter Drucker

#240 Rooster on 01.04.18 at 7:06 am

Good morning starshine. Just enjoying a hot cup of Kona Gold © produced by my coffee robot Gaggia Brera ®(entry-level but too new to upgrade – cost on Amazon.de is exactly half what the rentiers here charge). Actually made by Phillips, a wonderful Dutch company using Chinese labour. The Dutch used to exploit other labourers but someone complained.

#179 I already run a satire business and thought I had a monopoly. Some advice I’ve probably repeated at least a million tims – don’t exaggerate. People are stupid, but they’re not maroons.

I didn’t go into this business to support the economy, or other people. I did it for me and mine. I can pay Garth below minimum because he needs the work. At his age, with his background I am doing him a favour. I must admit I didn’t see this $historm coming over a buck an hour, but being late to the parties is just 1 of the risks I take. There are only two paths to financial success in business; do it well or do it cheap.

Canada is (sadly) running short of business moguls and there may never be a good time to broach this, but check out the wecroak.com app. It saved me, it may help you.

PS Garth keep an eye peeled for any large boxes from the Netherlands or small ones from Maui.

#241 Adrian Knaud on 01.04.18 at 7:10 am

This is a good time to go back to the age of slavery when the lefties had no power and the economy ran smoothly.Its been all downhill since. ..Let the uneducated work for bowls of rice and live in shanty town and for God’s sake no free health care.

#242 Ben on 01.04.18 at 7:17 am

BREAKING NEWS

GTA detached home prices down -2.4%…active listings surge 172%

#243 Adrian on 01.04.18 at 7:31 am

#52 satans on 01.03.18 at 7:05 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/what-billionaires-say-about-universal-basic-income-in-2017.html

*****

Great link! I think Zuckerberg made a brilliant point when he recognized that coming from a family that could financially support him while he took risks gave him the freedom to fail. (Young Bill Gates was much the same.)

“If I had to support my family growing up instead of having time to code, if I didn’t know I’d be fine if Facebook didn’t work out, I wouldn’t be standing here today,” said Zuckerberg. “The greatest successes come from having the freedom to fail.”

0.01%er Nick Hanauer acknowledges this as well when he points out in the following TedTalk that if he had been born somewhere people couldn’t afford to buy his products or where lack of infrastructure is a barrier to opportunity, he may have spent his life selling roadside produce instead of starting several highly successful companies.

Beware, fellow plutocrats, the pitchforks are coming
https://youtu.be/q2gO4DKVpa8

“When workers have more money, businesses have more customers and need more workers,” says Nick Hanauer. “When restaurants pay restaurant workers enough so that even they can eat in restaurants, that’s not bad for the restaurant business. That’s good for it.” (I may not agree with the health impact of this diet, but economically, Hanauer may as well be channeling Henry Ford.)

#64 Sam the Sham on 01.03.18 at 7:17 pm

Sam the Sham also makes a point worth mentioning here that imposing higher standards for everyone simultaneously can sometimes be necessary to offset countervailing ‘race-to-the-bottom’ market dynamics.

Even if there are some small costs to raising the minimum wage, the ‘Theory of the Second Best’ teaches us that sometimes two economic ‘wrongs’ *can* make a ‘right.’ In other words, providing workers at the bottom with incomes sufficient to participate more fully in society can help prevent more serious problems that would otherwise develop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_second_best

For example, higher levels of inequality burden society & the economy with lower health outcomes for every income decile, as well as higher rates of mental illness, crime, & violence, with all the resultant costs. (I’m sorry for repeating myself on this point, but it’s important.)

https://inequality.org/facts/inequality-and-health/
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-negative-effects-of-income-inequality-on-society-2011-11
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652881/
http://news.berkeley.edu/2014/12/09/dominancebehavior/
http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/338347?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
http://news.stanford.edu/2017/01/24/stanford-historian-uncovers-grim-correlation-violence-inequality-millennia/

It’s also important to realize that more than half of all workers who earn less than $15/hr are not youth, but actually 25 and older (see Table 3).

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/who-earns-minimum-wage

#244 Adrian on 01.04.18 at 7:32 am

Not everyone is able to acquire more marketable skills, for one reason or another, but they still need to live and Canada’s real estate & tuition(!) costs have been rising at rates well above CPI inflation rates for a long time.

“The Bank of Canada’s handy inflation calculator tells us that $1,000 tuition back in 1984 would cost $2,028 today if it increased just by the inflation rate annually. But according to Statistics Canada, the latest read on average tuition fees is $5,366.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/2012-vs-1984-young-adults-really-do-have-it-harder-today/article4105604/

Furthermore, fully one third of all women in Canada are paid less than $15/hr vs. 22% of all men. Between not being able to work during childbirth & requiring more time off to fulfill various responsibilities as their family’s primary caregiver, markets may well consider women less desirable employees deserving less compensation, but are we really okay with a world where women are paid less for doing exactly the same work? (Markets often reflect power dynamics more than marginal utility.)

As for youth unemployment, I’m sympathetic to the potential problem that raising the minimum wage can cause here but I think a valuable solution would be to expand organizational & financial supports for youth & student co-op employment, as well as return to providing tuition grants for apprentices & students in high demand fields, as we did back when my dad got his trade. These are excellent ways to help youth & students to get *much* better work experience than some McJob, as I can personally attest.

#245 Rule # 1 on 01.04.18 at 7:33 am

Dear Blog Dogs, what is the first rule of this Blog? Do NOT respond to SCM.

#246 Adrian Knaud on 01.04.18 at 7:35 am

The problems go back to when the lefties decided to teach the poor how to read.This only leads to unhappiness. they start to believe in silly high minded ideals and begin to dream of equality.

#247 Adrian on 01.04.18 at 7:38 am

The Bank of Canada report is hardly alarmist, despite the headline job-loss numbers of 60k by 2019. They are projecting 0.1% increase to inflation for 2018 & 2019, 0.1% decrease to GDP growth over the same period, & 0.7% increase to the national level of *real* wages by 2019. Overall, the report expects that – except for any increases to interest rates that may result – there will be a small net benefit to workers despite the lost jobs.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/san2017-26.pdf

One problem I have with their methodology – as with most neoclassical analysis – is the heavy reliance on general equilibrium models rather than structurally accurate complex systems models. Unfortunately, this renders their projections somewhat suspect.

I am particularly concerned that the BoC’s projections for declining GDP growth don’t accord with the following evidence, which strongly suggests that increasing worker compensation has historically had a *much* higher effect than corporate profits on growing Gross Domestic Income (GDI), which measures GDP from the income side (r^2 of 0.88 vs 0.26).

While personal consumption is 56% of Canada’s economy vs 70% for the US – and so this effect will be less pronounced north of the border – a 1% increase in worker compensation as a proportion of GDP has historically produced 0.9% increase in US GDI growth.

“Corporate Profits as a percentage of GDP are currently sitting at 60-year highs. Compensation as a percentage of GDP are at 60-year lows. GDP is driven by employee compensation, not corporate profits, because one, consumption makes up a much higher percentage, and two, money in the pockets of consumers is spent at a much higher rate than that of corporations. The answer to the question, ‘who will win out, corporate profits or worker compensation?’ is clear. If worker compensation gains GDP market share, both compensation and corporate profits will rebound.”

https://seekingalpha.com/article/3821196-corporate-profits-vs-worker-compensation-will-win-part-ii?page=2

My dad was a small business owner for most of my life, so I’m sympathetic to small business owners – who often don’t have access to favourable interest rates & economies of scale that fatten margins, large budgets for capital investments that improve labour productivity, or teams of lawyers that can penetrate bureaucracies & intimidate competitors/workers/governments, etc. However, I also agree with others here who have suggested that businesses need to be profitable *without* paying subsistence wages to their employees.

(And, I thought labour-saving automation was another word for improving productivity. Higher wages spur investments that raise productivity, which can support even higher wages in a virtuous cycle – unless worker bargaining power is insufficient to extract these gains, which has been the case for much of the past forty years. Are we really complaining about growing the economy’s capacity to raise living standards? Luddite! LOL!)

I absolutely recognize that corporate profits are necessary to generate sufficient investment to prevent recessions. However, as the previous link noted – and the following link makes abundantly clear – corporate profits are well above their historical average and this is having negative effects on GDP growth.

“Until recently, a profit share of GDP of 6% was perceived to be a cyclical peak; no less than Warren Buffet deemed a higher level to be unsustainable. And in fact, we see an explosion of profit share from 6% to 10% of GDP in the run-up to the crisis, roughly from 2003 to 2007. The ‘rescue the banks and financial markets’ measures succeeded in bringing the profit share back to its pre-crisis levels [9-10%], at the expense of workers.”

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/11/corporate-profit-margins-vs-wages-in-one-disturbing-chart.html

In other words, in advanced capitalist economies where personal consumption makes up the bulk of the economy, a larger workers’ share is in fact good for the corporate bottom-line. (Canada’s only real concern should be any effect this may have on the competitiveness of our exports.) The saying ‘a rising tide lifts all boats’ should really refer to a growing middle class raising corporate profits, because giving a smaller percentage of the pie to corporate profits (up to a point) actually creates a *larger* pie that ultimately *increases* the size of everyone’s slice! (That almost sounds like a free lunch… And now I’m hungry!)

Oh, I almost forgot to mention, all those corporate profits in publicly traded companies are being used by senior executives to buy back company stock because this helps them meet their performance targets and boosts their personal compensation packages, despite compromising a company’s long term growth potential. These people are gaming the incentive-structure for personal gain while socializing the cost.

https://hbr.org/2014/09/profits-without-prosperity

#248 Dee on 01.04.18 at 7:42 am

Come on G, at what point do you ban screwed millenial kid? This is insane. I like reading comments and that guy has completely hijacked the section

#249 Ezzy on 01.04.18 at 7:58 am

What’s most amusing is people think $15.00/ hour is a living wage. Perhaps if you live and work in rural Northern Ontario. Besides, it’s Tim Hortons, nothing much that’s any good comes out of there anyways.

#250 Bob on 01.04.18 at 8:03 am

Hi Garth. Why does this debate always need to be about companies increasing compensation? Share with your readers how much of a change would be needed by raising the basic minimum tax exemption to achieve the same end for a minimum wage employee. If the government would do that; no layoffs, no inflation, government goes on a diet….we all win.

#251 Grrla Grrl on 01.04.18 at 8:05 am

DELETED

#252 Howard on 01.04.18 at 8:12 am

Either legislate increased wages or abolish the TFW program. Doing the latter will push up wages without government intervention.

#253 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 8:13 am

@#154 Pam
“What if the business owners, entrepreneurs and anyone with any ambition shut down their businesses, go on strike, take their wealth and disappear?”
++++++

Ayn Rand beat you to it.

Atlas Shrugged. 1957

https://www.google.ca/url?url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjK486Tsb7YAhVU0mMKHYAhBYQQFggUMAA&usg=AOvVaw0P1qckuK5t-_PZpeP1bL_k

#254 Jeff Albertson on 01.04.18 at 8:25 am

The February 2018 Mad Magazine (#549) chronicling the 20 Dumbest People of 2017 is ahead of its time. Already a much sought after collectors item. Invest in a copy today for your grandkids!

#255 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 8:26 am

@#205 Screwed Canadian Millionaire Wannabe
“How in the world can I compete…..”

Exactly.
It isnt the businesses that make the rules.
Its the govts that were elected that make the rules.
Businesses, in order to make a Profit, use any legal means to work around those rules.
Or they go broke.

When the last business shuts down would Ms Wynn please turn out the lights?
Oh ….right the exorbitantly expensive Ontario electricty rates took care of that.
Why any large company is setting up in that anti business socialist commune is beyond me.

#256 jess on 01.04.18 at 8:26 am

who ya know?
…”Trump’s Interior Department is reinstating two 1966 leases, written before today’s federal environmental laws, that could allow a Chilean mining company to build a giant copper-and-nickel mine adjacent to the Boundary Waters wilderness area in northern Minnesota

=====
Ivanka Trump’s Landlord Is a Chilean Billionaire Suing the U.S. Government
President Donald Trump’s daughter and her husband, White House adviser Jared Kushner, live in a Kalorama house owned by a Chilean business titan. His company is suing the U.S. over a Minnesota mine

https://www.dcreport.org/2018/01/03/how-a-chilean-billionaire-could-poison-a-minnesota-wilderness/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ivanka-trumps-landlord-is-a-chilean-billionaire-suing-the-u-s-government-1489000307#_=_

https://www.dcreport.org/2018/01/03/how-a-chilean-billionaire-could-poison-a-minnesota-wilderness/

#257 Millmech on 01.04.18 at 8:32 am

#200SCM
It wouldn’t matter, even if the wages went up your generation still wouldn’t do the job because it’s “beneath you.
Your generation opened the door to the TFW issue,it’s your generations job to fix it!

#258 Howard on 01.04.18 at 8:37 am

#122 MF on 01.03.18 at 8:31 pm

I remember working my butt off at minimum. $6.40/hour then $6.80. I was exhausted after every day of work. This motivated me to study hard, gain skills, and move forward. Which I did. That is how it SHOULD be.

————————————–

I remember well my public sector summer job in 2001, when I was 21. Minimum wage in Ontario at the time was $6.85.

I admit I didn’t do much in that job. Most of the tasks given to me I finished in half a day, but I pretended to still be working on them days later. I justified it to myself given the low pay (even for 2001). Otherwise surfed the then-Stone Age internet and played minesweeper and was generally bored. I did manage to get a few naps in – was partying a lot that summer as I recall.

I guess I did well despite my efforts to the contrary since they gave me a reference afterward.

#259 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 8:40 am

@#240 Adrian K
“Let the uneducated work for bowls of rice and live in shanty town and for God’s sake no free health care….”

++++++

While that may incentivise the average whining millenial to improve their job skills, show up to work on time, stop texting on the job, stop surfing the internet, …… all while being paid……

Its been tried before
japanese POW Camps 1944
Economically unviable.
Very expensive.
Shoddy quality control.

Please come up with a new idea.

#260 Stan Brooks on 01.04.18 at 8:40 am

Great post.

It is important to stress the liberal incompetence and corruption as well as the role of the presstitute media like CBC who sells for money stolen by politicians
(generous subsidies by wild bill from the budget used to buy the media to keep them quiet and not to address his mistakes and stupidities are stolen from us the taxpayers) .

But is is also important to shed light on the truly wealthy and how there is separate set of rules – one punitive for the sheeple so they know their place, and another one for the elite like our financial minister and the PM with many loopholes which are exploited actively with no consequences.

Wild bill was to increase the taxes on stock options for the truly rich. I guess he is so busy working for us, the middle class Canadians that he simple forgot his election promises.

Instead he choose to kill doctors, lawyers, plumbers, small businesses.

#261 Here's the Deal on 01.04.18 at 8:40 am

Here’s the deal:

Atlas Shrugged

https://www.salon.com/2014/04/29/10_insane_things_i_learned_about_the_world_reading_ayn_rands_atlas_shrugged_partner/

End of story.

#262 Kingstonite on 01.04.18 at 8:43 am

DELETED

#263 Brian on 01.04.18 at 8:51 am

#8 Screwed Canadian Millenial is RIGHT Mr. Turner.

You are wrong.

Further, I have rarely witnessed an altruistic charitable donation by a wealthy person.

Most donations refect tax or business advantages to the donor.

I do not know the family in question personally, perhaps they are different, but my acquaintances are very affluent and greed is their prime motivator.

Feel free to trash me anonymously online, it doesn’t change the facts.

What ‘facts’ did you just provide? – Garth

#264 millmech on 01.04.18 at 8:58 am

208 Ben
Your point is that it is the bankers fault that people have to work two jobs because they are financially irresponsible with credit.No one has to buy those big houses that require two wages, no one put a gun to their head, no one seems to remember delayed gratification, paying cash for your purchases.
The so called smart generation doesn’t seem to be that smart at all.
As for listings surging 172%, don’t worry about it, just put some #888 in the listing price as we all know the hungry hoards from the east will buy it all up!lol

#265 Bob on 01.04.18 at 9:05 am

“The politics of envy and division.”
____________________________________________

That sentence says it all if you wish to understand the new Canada.

It will get worse for those who belong to the producing class in this country.

#266 Damien on 01.04.18 at 9:10 am

Foodcourt vendors on Bay St are already passing on those rising overheads to their consumers as evidenced to my dismay the past three days since returning to work.

Time to start bringing in my lunches ;-)

#267 LivinLarge on 01.04.18 at 9:13 am

“Prices are usually set by the franchisor, not the franchisee. – Garth”…of course they are. That’s the entire concept of a franchise. To turn business ownership into an unskilled enterprise in return for profit. Pretty much the same business model as a mutual fund.

A food franchise especially is an investment instrument disquised as self employment. If you have the cash for the initial buy-in they have the “system” to give you a return on investment. Input costs are almost entirely controlled from head office and prices are set from head office so all you have to do is slog away and the returns will come. Well, they will if your product and service remains desireable and you have a desireable location for traffic.

Timmies especially, evolved away from being a “first job” employer quite some time ago and have for some time been much more a “last job” employer. Just sit in one location and estimate the average age of the counter staff.

If they were a first job employer then there wouldn’t be much need for any benfit plan support from the owners. FWIW, McDs near my home are hiring “all positions, all shifts” and they still remain a major first job employer.

There is practically no learning curve at Timmies. If you can put a donut in a bag, pour a coffee and operate a POS terminal then y’all got a job.

So, sure, it is unfortunate that one of their costs have just jumped but Burlington can raise their sales prices and the consumer foots the bill. Maybe on the upside will be an improvement of the quality of their product. They’ve spent decades lowering the product quality to eke out more profit without raising prices so maybe they might put the nutmeg back in the old fashioned, the raisins back in the dutchie or apple back in the fritter or even “heaven forbid” stop or reduce their reliance on cheap robusta beans. McDs took a surprising chunck of their coffee trade by offering better tasting coffee.

So, for ages a Timmies franchise was a great investment and now it isn’t quite lucrative and consumer tastes are driving an increasing proportion of the clientele to brew a superior drink on their own at home and work. Such is business. I feel no obligation to ensure an investment return for an unskilled business owner.

#268 -=jwk=- on 01.04.18 at 9:18 am

241 posts and people still don’t get it.

If min wage stays the same, and prices go up as they always do, then business make more money then the year before. That’s good!

If min wage goes up, and prices go up as they always do, business make only they same money then the year before. That’s bad!

Conservative rules:
1) Business have the undeniably right o earn more profits every year than the year before.

2) All jobs are ‘unskilled’. Yes, even the technician with this piddly little two year college diploma who changes the oil in your car is ‘untrained and unskilled’ and does not deserve a penny more than $11 an hour.

3) If only 8% or workers make minimum wage, than raising it by 21% somehow raises ALL costs by 21%. That’s con math in the purest form.

Maybe you should start a business, create a few jobs, then come and tell us how easy and profitable it was. As of now, you (and most of the posters here) have no creds. – Garth

#269 Penny Henny on 01.04.18 at 9:30 am

#44 Al on 01.03.18 at 6:54 pm
Garth,

Today I did my regulag oil change at one of the quicky places. Typically around $75 for full synthetic. .today was $97…

There was also a note about the price increase.

This place employs minimum wage teenagers and young adults.

My wife emailed me in a craze on why I spent that much.

Totally because of minimum wage increase.

//////////////////////

Al I agree with your wife.
Minimum wage goes up $2.60 per hour and you agree to pay $22.00 more for an oil change accepting that the reasoning is that it was all because of the minimum wage hike.

#270 Yorkville Renter on 01.04.18 at 9:35 am

here’s how capitalism works… you offer a service for a price – whether thats creating/pouring coffee in a store or offering your labour to work in that store.

minimum wage is the lowest you can earn… if you don’t like it, you offer your labour to a higher bidder, but those offering jobs don’t have to hire you either.

people on minimum wage, which is 1 in 12 employees, are able to make a choice on how to live their life… nothing is forced. desperate for a job? take minimum wage and look for something better in the interim.

this bullshit dichotomy of millionaires vs serfs helps no one… ofcourse millionaires can afford a little more (not that they should) but what about the thousands of small operators who are not millionaires – who are the majority of small business owners… why do people like SCM not give a flying F for these people?

#271 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 9:38 am

Australia and New Zealand houses begin to crash and New Zealand hates foreigners too and doubles the tax. Interesting year ahead.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/real-estate/housing-begins-to-crash-australia-new-zealand-london/

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/australia-hates-foreigners-now-their-property-taxes-are-doubled-if-ytou-are-not-australian/

#272 Centre Wing on 01.04.18 at 9:40 am

SCM is too obtuse to realize the majority of employers paying out a min wage aren’t the “billion dollar heirs” he loves to vilify. Weird though, that he voted one into office though.

#273 Penny Henny on 01.04.18 at 9:45 am

#73 …and at Swiss Chalet on 01.03.18 at 7:24 pm
…….the “Two can dine for $15.99” 1/4 chicken special has increased to $17.99.
//////////////////////

I will try to keep this comment as civil as possible to make it past censorship.
We all know that prices have to rise in order for businesses to be able to afford the rise in minimum wage. So at the end of the day it is not about the small business owner having to shoulder to rise in minimum wage. It is the consumer who will pay and I’m okay with that.

#274 Victor V on 01.04.18 at 9:46 am

Weed stocks taking a huge hit today:

https://www.bnn.ca/marijuana

#275 Tater on 01.04.18 at 9:49 am

#44 Al on 01.03.18 at 6:54 pm
Garth,

Today I did my regulag oil change at one of the quicky places. Typically around $75 for full synthetic. .today was $97…

There was also a note about the price increase.

This place employs minimum wage teenagers and young adults.

My wife emailed me in a craze on why I spent that much.

Totally because of minimum wage increase.

So really they are passing it on to consumers which is basically government induced inflation.

Nice
—————————————————————
Min wage went up $2.40 an hour. That doesn’t explain a $22 jump in the cost of your oil change.

#276 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 9:56 am

”The kiosks that were there before the min wage increases? The kiosks that exist in other countries where wages are much lower?” SCM
——————————————————————
Yep they were alright. Saw them up at Parksville, V.Island last summer in one of the McD’s. There were two of them and a couple young gals at the till. Most people coming in just went straight to the counter and ordered. This will slow things down considerably as us old geezer boomers buck it. Same as with the banks. They thought they could get rid of tellers back 20 years ago. Still long lineups at the wickets. Tough to teach old boomers new tricks. Stubborn bunch we are although my wife and I have conformed to the new ways mostly since we’ve been working around technology since the mid eighties even before Google. Heck, I remember using my ChargeX card back in 1970 to get cash from an outdoor cash machine in Vancouver. There was one on Kingsway and another in New Westminster at the RBC. We even have Iphones now and GPS’s and we text. Who wudda thunk. I hated writing so I bought a portable typewriter when I was 15 and have keyboarded ever since going on 57 years now. Still do over 65 wpm. Gotta love this technology.

#277 Victor V on 01.04.18 at 10:07 am

https://www.bnn.ca/toronto-home-prices-inch-up-despite-172-dec-inventory-surge-1.958731

Homeowners in Canada’s largest real estate market raced to sell their properties last month ahead of tough new lending rules that took effect at the start of January.

Active listings of homes available for sale surged 172.4 per cent year-over-year across the Greater Toronto Area in December, according to data released by the regional real estate board on Thursday.

Total property sales fell seven per cent year-over-year to 4,930 amid a sharp pullback in the detached property market.

#278 Howard on 01.04.18 at 10:07 am

#247 Millmech on 01.04.18 at 8:32 am

#200SCM
It wouldn’t matter, even if the wages went up your generation still wouldn’t do the job because it’s “beneath you.
Your generation opened the door to the TFW issue,it’s your generations job to fix it!

—————————————-

Did you seriously just say that it was Millennial lawmakers who pushed for TFWs?? This is like fake news on overdrive!

Is this the new Boomer strategy? blame Millennials for policies enacted when the Mills were in grade school?

Also, you have no proof that young people wouldn’t do those jobs.

#279 SunShowers on 01.04.18 at 10:11 am

“Maybe you should start a business, create a few jobs, then come and tell us how easy and profitable it was. – Garth”

Bogus Conservative talking point #4:
“Businesses create jobs.”

Businesses don’t “create” jobs any more than lawn sprinklers “create” water. Jobs are created by consumers with money in their pockets willing and able to spend it on goods and services.

That makes it pretty easy to see how increased wages for workers (ergo, a higher minimum wage) is what truly drives consumption and therefore job creation. 20 people earning 50k per year consume more than one person earning 1 mil per year. This feeds a cycle that results in increased job growth and (assuming business owners actually pass increased profits onto their employees) increased compensation beyond the aforementioned 50k. I think they used to be called raises back when they actually existed.

Wrong. Entrepreneurs gauge the potential for business success then plan, invest, create, hire and hope their hunch/research/analysis was correct. Meanwhile jobs are created and people paid out of invested capital, not cash flow. Try it. – Garth

#280 livinLarge on 01.04.18 at 10:15 am

“Maybe you should start a business, create a few jobs, then come and tell us how easy and profitable it was. As of now, you (and most of the posters here) have no creds. – Garth” “Mon Dieu, have they no brioche??”

And AI you have a far greater problem than a price increase on an oil change if our wife is monitoring your spending so closely that she rips you a new one the same day.

#281 Made to Last on 01.04.18 at 10:19 am

Just finished putting a patch on my 20 year old Kodiaks. Any entrepreneurs out there still making a decent pair of winter boots in Canada? Willing to pay a premium but not extortion.

#282 Grrla Grrl on 01.04.18 at 10:26 am

Sorry, I forgot to add the wink ;-)

#283 Asterix1 on 01.04.18 at 10:29 am

TREB and CREA need to stop publishing “Days on the Market” stats. Its just a big lie!

Multiple listings for the same property being “Terminated” and recreated a few hours later. Most properties sit for months without being sold. Then the last MLS listing created finds a buyer, sold in 10 days!

Pure lies….

#284 Stan Brooks on 01.04.18 at 10:38 am

Coming to Canada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_preventing_and_combating_violence_against_women_and_domestic_violence

Article 36 – Sexual violence, including rape

1. Parties shall take the necessary legislative or other measures to ensure that the following intentional conducts are criminalized:

a. engaging in non-consensual vaginal, anal or oral penetration of a sexual nature of the body of another person with any bodily part or object;

b. engaging in other non-consensual acts of a sexual nature with a person;

c. another person to engage in non-consensual acts of a sexual nature with a third person.

2. Consent must be given voluntarily as the result of the person’s free will assessed in the context of the surrounding circumstances.

3. Parties shall take the necessary legislative or other measures to ensure that the provisions of paragraph 1 also apply to acts committed against former or current spouses or partners as recognized by internal law.

—————————

You will need notary legalized written agreement to have safe (free of potential criminal charges if you are not performing well for example…) sex with your partner/friend.

But hey, wild bill or T2 can screw you anytime with no consequences apparently.

I vehemently object and demand at least a kiss (preferably on the derriere) first.

#285 Ian on 01.04.18 at 10:41 am

Flop…did you move to Arizona?!

#286 Midnights on 01.04.18 at 10:42 am

Pot Stocks Tumble After Jeff Sessions Rescinds Policies Allowing States To Legalize Pot

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-04/jeff-sessions-rescinds-policies-have-allowed-states-legalize-pot

#287 crossbordershopper on 01.04.18 at 10:44 am

i think that if everyone simply works for the same wages, people would be happier. We would all have the home we live in free of course, why give profit to private bankers when the land is owned by the government anyway and the banks are all controlled by the government anyway.
why all the details simply write a rent cheque to justin or have him direclty take it from your wage.
all this paperwork, we get paid, pay taxes, then rent etc, simply go to work and everything will be taken care off. i think people will be happier and less stressed knowing hay, i work and i am assured a job and a place to stay and everything. everyone is so stressed i see

#288 Footwear Fetishist on 01.04.18 at 10:45 am

Forgot to mention I recently had my 25 year-old Prospectors (CDN made) resoled at Joe’s for $50 all-in. Needed to replace the 3 year-old Prospectors (ROC) that cracked from the cold. I smell opportunity.

#289 ben on 01.04.18 at 10:51 am

> By your definition then, how is someone running a business that adds value a rentier? They may even lease the land they operate on. The only real rentiers are the banks who lend out far more than they take in deposits and demand to be repaid with interest.

Kelsey – no that’s not what I said at all. Why would someone creating value and renting land to do that be a rentier? The person leasing the land most likely is because they are deriving profit from collective value. If you have a lot of land in a city it has huge value not due to their work but due to the collective value added via municipal expenditure to create roads, hospitals, all the “network effects”. They should pay the rent associated with that network effect. If they own the land outright since say 1960 they are simply collecting pure profit off the back of others.

Some will say they “made a good bet” or start on about “property rights”. But land is not the same as widgets, you can’t make more land.

We should be rewarding those factory owners. Or people who increase the value of their land by building a useful building. Land value tax is a tax on the *unimproved* value of the land. No more discouraging building on land. No more unearned income. No more taxes on labour.

#290 Jonah on 01.04.18 at 10:52 am

All these businesses making tons of money and getting tax rebates are still complaining about the wage hike. They are like corporations that have made billions, refuse to give salary increases to their employees while giving never heard of some crazy million in bonuses to executive team members.

time for change, I think even $15 is unfair wage, it should be around $20.00

#291 ben on 01.04.18 at 10:57 am

millmech – loose credit sets prices.

I don’t want to spend a huge % of my wage on rent and I don’t want to buy inflated land.

I have no choice in this matter because we don’t tax land to suppress rentier activity. I have to sleep somewhere and I have children who need to be educated. I can’t just go live in Alaska. The system is designed to take surplus value from people doing actual and necessary work (be that running a business with all the attendant risk or doing a skilled job – both add real value) and transfer this to landlords and rentiers.

And we’ve seen this. Families are spending far more on land prices. Are they all in a McMansion? No.

In failing to differentiate between wealth creation and wealth appropriation this blog is missing a trick, in my opinion.

Everyone is talking past each other. Eat the rich vs laud the entrepreneur. The key problem is productive workers versus rentiers. The main cost for all normal workers is rent / mortgage (renting money from a bank).

#292 jerry on 01.04.18 at 10:58 am

The jobs and services that can be automated or replaced by technology, will be. Mandatory government wage minimums are a headline grabbing passing fancy.

When assembly lines are fully robotic or check out stations are automated, where will governments capture payroll taxes , health taxes and income taxes?

Can Robots be taxed like workers?

#293 Ian on 01.04.18 at 11:01 am

SCM, I would like you to go to the Cineplex at Eglinton Cinemas, 22 Lebovic Ave, where you will notice that what previously were cashiers have been replaced by MACHINES.

Minimum wage harms the very people it’s trying to protect, and regardless the machines are coming regardless of how inept government is and isn’t. I’m an engineer originally, trust me!

Wait till I tell you dogs about the co in California that has developed a perfect pizza making machine. The pics look delicious (not just of the pizza, but the machine too). You will walk in to a restaurant using it and no one will be working there. Best pizza you will ever have I bet!

#294 SunShowers on 01.04.18 at 11:02 am

“Entrepreneurs gauge the potential for business success then plan, invest, create, hire and hope their hunch/research/analysis was correct. Meanwhile jobs are created and people paid out of invested capital, not cash flow. Try it. – Garth”

So what you’re saying is that if the entrepreneur doesn’t anticipate enough demand for their product/service because nobody can afford what the entrepreneur would be trying to sell, those jobs will never be created in the first place.

Thanks for proving my point, I guess.

They find another business model. Duh. – Garth

#295 Stan Brooks on 01.04.18 at 11:04 am

I bet wild bill and T2 will not address this at all:

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/former-manitoba-grand-chief-files-201357778.html

oligopolies are fine as far as they are owned by their elitist friends, competition is sin.

#296 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 11:20 am

What next? When most of these jobs are replaced my automated kiosks, are we going to mandate that Tim Hortons hire a minimum number of employees at each location?

#297 LivinLarge on 01.04.18 at 11:27 am

And now for something completely different…

With the cold keeping me in today I decided to look more closely at my portfolio with an eye to rebalancing. Maybe it’s time to take some profits and shift focus to access some coming opportunity.

To wit…I was looking at my position in a Canadian royalty aggregator. It pays a nice monthly div yield over 6% if bought today but I’ve held it for a couple years from a lower purchase price so I’m getting considerably more than 6%. The capital appreciation for 2017 has been a stellar 40% so I’m a little concerned that it’s time to take my cap gains and move on. One of franchise royalties they own is Mr. Lube and if quicky oil change franchises can slide a 20% price increase in on the back of a minimum wage increase then I’m thinking that the franchise fee revenues are going to goose up quite nicely for 2018 too.

Any opinions?

#298 conan on 01.04.18 at 11:29 am

“Entrepreneurs gauge the potential for business success then plan, invest, create, hire and hope their hunch/research/analysis was correct.” -Garth

Would that not be easier to do if your customer base now had more jingly jangly in their pockets?

What is the point in having a minimum wage that will not provide enough in order to pay rent, put food on the table, and be able to buy new cloths?

All your doing is creating a class of people who will get wiped off the financial map if they get sick, or injured, or not fast anymore, because they are old.

It is a simple dollarydoo shift. Raise your prices.

Ignore the point much? Entrepreneurs create jobs. Period. They provide the capital and take the risk. Try it, then comment. – Garth

#299 Tony on 01.04.18 at 11:35 am

Marijuana stocks tank today, like I said shorting these stocks will be like shorting the stemcell stocks when all the sucker money flowed into them years ago.

#300 FairIsFair on 01.04.18 at 11:50 am

“You do not build anyone up by tearing others down. Prove otherwise, and the Timbits are on me.”

It isn’t about “tearing others down”. Inequality has never been higher and it hurts everyone including those at the top. Study after study shows that more money contributes to happiness until about 75k per year. After that, it really won’t make any meaningful difference. If those at the top used their hard work and good fortune to build up their communities that would be one thing. But if they are just building bigger houses and buying matching Lambos, policies that save people from themselves are a good thing.

I like the chocolate glazed ones by the way.

Donut & pizza shop owners driving Lambos. Lots of comedians today. – Garth

#301 Cowpoke on 01.04.18 at 11:52 am

Talking about being screwed!… Just wait until the USA starts sanctioning Canada!

#302 april on 01.04.18 at 12:06 pm

With everyone’s property assessments up, well Van condos anyway, based on last July, these sellers will be asking the moon for their homes…yes/no?

#303 For those about to flop... on 01.04.18 at 12:15 pm

Ian at 10:41 am
Flop…did you move to Arizona?!

//////////////////////

Yes,for nine days…

M43AZ

#304 morrey on 01.04.18 at 12:21 pm

go on and defend the rich:
“Vancouver architect says the wealthy are cashing in on property tax deferment”

ps we are not talking about small business owners, but the rich blood sucking piranhas of society.

#305 FairIsFair on 01.04.18 at 12:22 pm

“Donut & pizza shop owners driving Lambos. Lots of comedians today. – Garth”

That is a pretty creative take away from a paragraph that says if you make 75k you’re in good shape and if you make more than that, you shouldn’t sweat paying your share.

Most donut & pizza shop owners are working 15hr days to maybe clear six figures if they are lucky. I agree with you, these are the very last people we should be generating more barriers for.

#306 cdilla on 01.04.18 at 12:23 pm

Garth – you are growing crabby in your old age. Years ago I felt like you were more “stick it to the man”, now you seem to be status quo.

All the younger people pulled here by the theme of overpriced housing so many years ago have felt the crunch of capitalism.

It isn’t just that we couldn’t afford housing, but we see all these boomers (many of whom fell into wealth), carving more from the working poor.

It doesn’t sit well.

Idiot, ageist comment. Business owners and entrepreneurs are not just Boomers, but embrace people of all ages. It’s more about personality than years on this earth. Some people create and venture. Most people whine, moan and envy. – Garth

#307 Dont invest in Marijuana yet! on 01.04.18 at 12:25 pm

OMG the Trump administration are such a bunch of dicks. Well if you want to invest is recreational pot you better back off. Just days after it becomes legal in California In a seismic shift, Attorney General Jeff Sessions will announce Thursday that he is rescinding a trio of memos from the Obama administration that adopted a policy of non-interference with marijuana-friendly state laws, according to a source with knowledge of the decision. While many states have decriminalized or legalized marijuana use, the drug is still illegal under federal law, creating a conflict between federal and state law.
So California doesn’t know if its coming or going now regarding pot! Back to the Tijuana Tea suppliers south of the border.

#308 Iconoclast on 01.04.18 at 12:25 pm

Regardless of your position on the minimum wage, I think we can all agree that the approach of the junior Joyce/Hortons was boneheaded. The optics of this are terrible and will cost them much more than they save.

#309 SimplyPut7 on 01.04.18 at 12:26 pm

#195 Long Branch Apprentice on 01.03.18 at 10:56 pm

I went to a McDonald’s a while back at Yonge and Wellesley and was shocked they didn’t have those kiosks.

self-checkout is every where in Toronto:
* Libraries (for the past decade)
* Movie theatres (I went to one that had no cashiers anymore)
* Shoppers Drug Mart
* All large chain grocery stores
* All large chain home improvement stores
* And every store who encourages shopping online instead of opening another brick and mortar store

Price for food creeped up at grocery stores, restaurants and fastfood chains and portions go down

I don’t see how the minimum wage increase helped the people who really needed it.

#310 morrey on 01.04.18 at 12:28 pm

laugh of the day:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSquPvnU0AAA97w.jpg:large

#311 Ian on 01.04.18 at 12:29 pm

#303 Flop

Nice!! I love it there. PHX and Scottsdale rule. Barry Goldwater land!!!

#312 Dont invest in Marijuana yet! on 01.04.18 at 12:30 pm

#298 Tony on 01.04.18 at 11:35 am

Marijuana stocks tank today, like I said shorting these stocks will be like shorting the stemcell stocks when all the sucker money flowed into them years ago.
…………………………………………………………………………
You can thank the Trump administration and their crazy flip flops. What the hell is going on there? Jeff Sessions is such a dick.

#313 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 12:48 pm

@ Ben – in Comment #208 you claimed that Tim Horton’s is a great example of a “rentier”.

Then in Comment #288 you said:

“Why would someone creating value and renting land to do that be a rentier?” It sounds like you have an issue with the owner of the land but not the operator of a business (sometimes the same entity but not always).

Is that a fair assessment of your argument? If so, I don’t think it validates applying more rules and regulations and minimum wage requirements on business operators.

#314 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 1:00 pm

@#305 FairisFair

And what exactly is someone’s “Fair Share”. What criteria do you use to assess that someone earning $1M per year and paying $400K per year in taxes is only paying their “fair share”, while someone earning $20K per year and using more in government services than they contribute in taxes is getting a raw deal?

And sure, the person earning $20K has a higher propensity to consume. But in the long-run the guy earning $1M per year is more likely to re-invest in productive assets that improve overall economic growth, despite what Keynesian voodoo economics might tell you. And this is how wages go up in the long-run, not by government intervention. I say tax the rich guy when he buys yachts, but let him keep money tax free if it’s used for investment. If Warren Buffet lives a modest life, I’d rather he allocate his funds than the government.

#315 conan on 01.04.18 at 1:03 pm

#309 SimplyPut7 on 01.04.18 at 12:26 pm

I don’t see how the minimum wage increase helped the people who really needed it.

Keep in mind that the new 14 dollar an hour rate is not for 4 dollar coffees and pizza slices every day. Or, spending all of their pay check in the bar. It is meant to cover necessities of life, like rent, food, and clothes.

It is obvious to me that the min wage peeps just got a big hand up. Maybe going forward we could raise the min wage by the rate of inflation every year? I do not want to go through this plus 20 percent “whack-a-mole ” increase again either.

Some Conservatives would take us back to slavery if they could, and that is sad.

There are some low margin industries that are going to get hurt by this. Raise your prices!

#316 n1tro on 01.04.18 at 1:06 pm

While whiners bitch about what’s fair, theo rest of us who are invested is seeing the DOW over 25,000 mark and cryptos double in last 3 weeks.

I’m thinking of for going the Tesla this year but instead waiting for the new Porsche Mission E due for 2019.

https://www.porsche.com/microsite/mission-e/international.aspx

These lyrics will be blaring as I roll on by…

“They see me rollin’…
They hatin’, patrollin’, and tryin’ a catch me ridin’ dirty
Tryin’ a catch me ridin’ dirty…”

LoL.

#317 Turbo on 01.04.18 at 1:07 pm

Quoting Tater #274:
“Min wage went up $2.40 an hour. That doesn’t explain a $22 jump in the cost of your oil change.”

-> Wages didn’t just increase at the oil change joint. They also increased for all of their suppliers, meaning all the supplies that business buys now cost more too;

-> By the time you factor in the CPP, EI & WSIB cost the increase is actually more like $3.00/hr;

-> On top of this, the new laws also increase vacation pay. For everyone. That means a FURTHER across-the-board 2% cost increase for business.

In 2017 my firm’s rate for tax consulting was $145/hr.

Due to increased wage costs, supply chain costs and the ridiculous increase in taxes on business owners, our rates are now $195/hr.

The inflation rate in 2018 will be mind boggling.

#318 KLNR on 01.04.18 at 1:11 pm

yuge PR nightmare for timmies.

does anyone actually drink that swill without a boatload of cream and sugar?

#319 Leo Trollstoy on 01.04.18 at 1:12 pm

When I listen to millenials, I’m glad they’re screwed

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

I also love how the government is run by the rich and affluent. Just like me

Lol

#320 Mike in Toronto on 01.04.18 at 1:13 pm

#98 conan

My mistake, I’m not sure why I thought it was required. Some moving company ripped me off around ‘99 then. Billed me for the breaks at the end of the move.

Glad to see this site didn’t go all geek on me for the error.

#321 Steven Rowlandson on 01.04.18 at 1:22 pm

Well if wages won’t go up then the cost of living has to come down and that means the near total collapse of real estate prices or rents. What we have now doesn’t work and could be considered to be a crime against humanity.

#322 Mattl on 01.04.18 at 1:29 pm

I’m no Pinko but am not losing any sleep over these changes. The Market will figure it out. Guys like Spock, who layed off two employees, will be running short handed (or was overstaffed previously, business not doing well?) and his customer experience will suffer. The businesses that have sufficient margins and cash flow to retain employees, that play in his space, will take away a portion of his clients. Very basic stuff.

In the case of the Timmies owners, the market will deal with them as well. The letter, and playing politics with their employees, was a terrible way to handle this situation. They are free to do what they want and any blowback is fair game. Free market baby.

And we will see where all this lands over the next twelve months. Lots of folks feel trickle down is a whole lot of BS, guess we about to find out.

#323 Guillaume on 01.04.18 at 1:32 pm

If you want social justice, one solution is to lower the wages and benefits of every government worker at any level, it should help creating a lot of real jobs in the free market economy.
Regarding your post and in response to all the lefties around there is no need to argue with fools like SCM (he has probably no skin in any game) : we, the small businesses owners (I am in the food industry) will always manage to find a way to go around those stupid socialist government policies. Also I am very glad T2 accelerated the process for an immigrant to become Citizen, I can’t wait to cast a nice blue ballot…

#324 OttawaMike on 01.04.18 at 1:38 pm

So to summarize:
High CEO salaries good.

Minimum wage owners should just getting working tax credits instead of wages they can actually live on.

Minimum wage jobs are just for kids living at home.

If minimum wage coffee servers at Tims want to know what it’s like to run a business, they should inherit one too.

CEO salaries are largely irrelevant, and minimum wages are no more intended to constitute total income than the CPP is designed to pay for retirement. Inheritance is nice, though. Agree there. – Garth

#325 paulo on 01.04.18 at 1:39 pm

The great gamble has been placed live with it.
i think this minimum wage play will result in marginal operations in the retail and food service industries being washed out of play.
operators on game will fill the demand and see a increase in trade,hopefully offsetting the wage cost increase they incurred.
yes there is a possibility that the additional income will be returned into the economy we shall see.
in the end the result will be a significant increase in general and wage inflation costs that will translate into the boc and that pussy politz having to raise rates.
2018 will end with a total of 125 basis points increase in olr (rate)!

#326 Quality not Quantity on 01.04.18 at 1:48 pm

300+ posts today! Does anybody work?
Garth I fear your spelling error has inadvertently given the backwards movement new agency.

Two words: Pay wall

Incorporate as a church to make the subscription tax deductible, and use the proceeds for pitbull rescue. Or call it an accountancy firm and offer equity partnerships. Give 1% loans to your new partners and everyone can enjoy the write-offs.

You can never change your foes, only outlive them ;-)

#327 Guillaume on 01.04.18 at 1:49 pm

As a small employer in an independent food business, I would like to say that 10, 12 or 15 bucks an hour is not the main problem : an efficient and hard worker at 16/hour will beat any 8/hour stupid dumb-ass with two left hands….. It is just that it is not the government business to put its nose into my own business, period ! I am working hard but if God allows it I will be wintering in the south in ten years while angry losers will still be moaning, envying, and crying, they will just be ten years older…. Losers !

#328 maxx on 01.04.18 at 2:06 pm

“It’s the mantra of a failed crop of leaders whose policies have encouraged spending and debt while penalizing savings and investment. The politics of envy and division.”

No one has compressed the mechanics of recent economic history better.
If Canada votes to support a continuation of these policies, it deserves everything it (doesn’t) get.

#329 Blacksheep on 01.04.18 at 2:11 pm

We did this to ourselves.

While the indoctrinated population of the west was asleep, we let corporate lobbyist, buy politicos favour, outsourcing manufacturing to the east. For multiple decades we have had manufactured goods produced at basically slave wages, enter out countries with far to low tariffs, if any at all.

Decent paying low skill manufacturing jobs, are now for the most part, gone.

Whom could have known? Sir James Goldsmith did, way back in 1994, but no one heeded his warnings and we now see the results. Charlie Rose link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmOkaKh3-s

Did we ever really need $ 80 microwave ovens from wallmart?

Of course not.

Forget $15 an hour minimum wage, Basic Income is coming.

Capitalism only works when enough of the masses have gainful employment to consume, but this relationship is rapidly degrading, causing all sorts distortions like we are now experiencing. It’s only a matter of time until the consumer is unable to spend, having reached debt saturation, eventually driving precious corporate profits down, bringing an end to 8% returns.

It would appear, we are victims of our own design….

#330 ben on 01.04.18 at 2:16 pm

Kelsey – I didn’t mean to imply Hortons is, simply that the staff there on poor pay are a consequence of rentiers – a big bonus of lower land prices is the ability to refuse low wages.

Anyhow you can pick holes in my brief description of this, however “rentier” is a well-established economic concept that would be instantly recognisable to any economist you’ve ever heard of, including pin-up-boy (but not read) Adam Smith.

You can read my other posts on it and also read up on it yourself. My original reply to you stands – businesses creating wealth / adding value are not rentiers. That simply is not the concept. The definition is pretty simple.

Land value tax isn’t a left/right issue, which this site seems to get bogged down on. The “right” often claims they don’t want hand-outs to idle people. The “left” wants fair salaries and better equality.

Land value tax can please both these people. It cannot please the third group: idle speculators / landlords living off value added by others.

If you are content with those aims then read more on land value tax.

#331 InvestorsFriend on 01.04.18 at 2:17 pm

Must Our Opinions Always Reflect our Wallets?

“And what will be the predictable response on this pathetic blog?”

*****************************************
Predictable is right. It seems to me that virtually everyone on this Blog bases their opinions on exactly what is in their own best interests financially.

A FEW richer people or business owners will argue for something like taking away some of the many tax breaks that the richer enjoy. They are the rare exception.

Most people will predictably defend, for example, ANY and all tax breaks that they happen to benefit from and tend to be against anything that benefits others but not them.

I don’t see a lot of balanced arguments.

I’m not complaining since I come here by choice.

And I suppose this “Me First” attitude is a basic feature of capitalism and human nature. It’s why we need government to sometimes do what benefits the greater good at the expense of the few.

But yes, responses sure are predictable.

#332 jess on 01.04.18 at 2:18 pm

Fat Cat Thursday’: top bosses earn workers’ annual salary by lunchtime

Independent study of pay gap finds FTSE 100 bosses earning more in three days than typical worker will receive in entire year (guardian uk)

“Does anyone really think these fat cats deserve 100 times more than the hard-working people who prop up their business empires?” he said

======
Google’s ‘Dutch sandwich’ shielded 16 billion euros from tax
News Jan 02, 2018 by Jeremy Kahn Waterloo Region Record

#333 FairIsFair on 01.04.18 at 2:20 pm

@314 Kelsey

I’d love to see a breakdown of all those taxes on yachts and lambo’s that are paying for essential services. The fact is that the truly rich (not high earning professionals who pay the most) pay way less than everyone else. Sometimes they use this for good (Bill Gates, Buffet, etc) but a lot of the time they are just buying mansions and lambos that don’t do anybody any good. When Buffet says it is a crime that his secretary pays a greater % of her income in taxes, people should sit up and listen. When you say they invest in productive assets, some do, but an awful lot of these guys are just buying paper assets that only create more money and more inequality. This is probably the single biggest problem our society faces today.

#334 El Joko on 01.04.18 at 2:24 pm

DELETED

#335 jess on 01.04.18 at 2:31 pm

” I say tax the rich guy when he buys yachts”
Why Is This Man Smiling?

Because You Are Writing Him a YYUUGGE Tax-Refund Check

https://www.dcreport.org/category/taxes/

EXPLORE THE DATA
Four Caribbean tax havens added to the Offshore Leaks Database
https://www.icij.org/blog/2017/12/four-caribbean-tax-havens-added-offshore-leaks-database/

all things tax

http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/jerseypage.html

Cecile S. Gallego — December 19, 2017

#336 millmech on 01.04.18 at 2:31 pm

277 Howard
Sorry but I know lots of companies screaming for labourers that pay a starting wage of over $20.00 hr, can not find anyone to fill those jobs. The problem with the young people today is that they do not want to start at the bottom and work their way up. My friends company the average turnover is two weeks because once the new hires realize that they are not getting the top rate of a journeyman they think they are getting screwed over. The new hires cannot put their phones down, text and take calls while on the job, has not found any of the Canadian talent to be that good sadly.
Now you bring in a TFW pay him the same rate as the Canadian labourer and he can not believe his good fortune, despite a language barrier they comprehend a no phone policy. When you offer a TFW training at a lower wage ie apprenticeship they line up like crazy, ask lots of questions and study hard.
In other words TFW are motivated and a lot of Canadians are just entitled
Also I have two boys in their mid twenties who study and train hard in their field and are in high demand and pull in a six figure income every year, if they quit their jobs today they have another job tomorrow.
Smart motivated people with a good work ethic have no problem finding work, and there are those who need government to force a raise because they can not earn it.

#337 SimplyPut7 on 01.04.18 at 2:47 pm

#315 conan on 01.04.18 at 1:03 pm

Keep in mind that the new 14 dollar an hour rate is not for 4 dollar coffees and pizza slices every day. Or, spending all of their pay check in the bar.

————–

It’s the lower income people that spend their money on $4 coffee, fastfood and expensive bar drinks.

Hopefully rent doesn’t increase because now people have a little more money to spend but we already have a shortage of rentals in the GTA and $14 an hour isn’t going to buy you a home anywhere within a 2 hour driving radius of Toronto.

Spending time figuring out how to increase the residential rental vacancy rate back to 4%-5% in the GTA so housing costs would be lower; would have been a better use of government money than thinking businesses and consumers will spend more money to cover the minimum wage hike.

#338 Exodus 2020 on 01.04.18 at 2:47 pm

In the late ’90’s I used to get 12 donuts for under $6 at timmys, and they were made fresh in store. They’ve since doubled the price and don’t make them in store, quality has diminished as they cut costs and increase prices. They can afford the payroll increase.

Hard to see how this blog can get more fatuous and irrelevant than at this moment. We’re doomed. – Garth

#339 ben on 01.04.18 at 2:48 pm

millmech:

> can not find anyone to fill those jobs. The problem with the young people today is that they do not want to start at the bottom and work their way up

Wait – do you believe in a free market or not.

We have low unemployment, so people are not sitting idle.
The worker is not insane – they must have a higher offer. I can’t believe they are so innumerate as to think $18 is higher than $20.

So why are they leaving?

Sounds like they need to pay more. For once the following phrase is actually apposite: “econ 101 supply and demand (TM)”

#340 OttawaMike on 01.04.18 at 2:50 pm

Wow.
You spiked those 2 comments of mine over some of the other shite on here today?

Mean spirited. Just like the Tim Horton people.

Maybe join forces with Ezra Levant to become Canada’s Brietbart?

The only comment trashed was your link to a story that’s been linked here a dozen times. Grow a set. – Garth

#341 Mattl on 01.04.18 at 2:55 pm

“Wrong. Entrepreneurs gauge the potential for business success then plan, invest, create, hire and hope their hunch/research/analysis was correct. Meanwhile jobs are created and people paid out of invested capital, not cash flow. Try it. – Garth”

So all the folks you hired when you launched your store were unemployed? Listen I’m all in on capitalism and a
will be starting my own business in the next five years but that business will be taking awaying existing customers and employees from other businesses in the space. My plan is to create more wealth for myself at the expense of other business owners.

Thats the reality for 95 percent of startups. Its mostly a zero sum game, there are only so many consumer dollars to go around. Did Amazon create jobs in Canada? Of course not, they took away share from businesses like Sears. Net jobs likely negative, with wealth going to Amazon. And I’m okay with that.

The exception would be exporters.

Taking market share from another General Store, or plumber is a beautiful thing but lets be real about whats actually happening. You built a better fly trap and attracted employees and customers, thats wonderful, and that investment is very good for the community but your gain is most likely someone elses loss (once again, this is a good thing). Your business may be the exception but I’ve hired a few hundred people over the last 10 years and with the exception of a few all have been at the expense of another employer. And I’ve never had any illusions that are company was creating net new jobs, we were adding as we were taking market share and the net number of people employed in our industry was staying fairly static.

#342 NoName on 01.04.18 at 2:58 pm

Keep cutting hours and them benefits boys and girls, straight from chinas books of komunist capitalist book, where labour laws protect those that need no protection. Place where social policy is left with hard right labor laws streit from early 1900s…

Lets revisit reise of proletariat, and take few notes along.

1- Proletariat

Indoctrination book where capitalisam was regarded as evil and central ruling lets call it institution is needed for fix wrongs.
(we know how that worked out for russia, ex-yugoslavia, cambodia, korea, and its working for china cuba and nk).

2. Bolsheviks

Awoken proletariat masses, very scary dude, just for the moment think of theire liders: lenin, stalin, tito, mao ze thung, kim jo ung, causesku, castro, guvera, pinochet, I like to ad ajatolah homieny and I am sure that are more people to add to the list.

3. Bolsheviks (read uneducated indoctrinated working stiff) Revolution

As working condition got bad in early 1900s, people went bit crazy… If books that I red are correct many people use as a fodder meat in ww1 were volunteers that joined army just to escape 12hrs 7days a week work in factories for next to nothing.

4. Proletariat animal farm.

Clasification ANIMAL, SAME, HUMANS and we are not talking about animals from animal kindom here, and gues who gets to device who is human, proletariat of course.

5. Proletariat Propaganda

Only rulling party have correct information about what is going on, isn’t that interesting.

I’am to old for this $#!7…

#343 El Joko on 01.04.18 at 3:00 pm

So apparently you can’t even handle having the fact pointed out that most Timmy’s are staffed by older employees and TFWs.

Aww, muffin. Let me shed a tear for your sensitive soul ;(

Racists comments are deleted. – Garth

#344 Terrie on 01.04.18 at 3:03 pm

I’m not sure I’d agree that franchises are independent small local businesses. They appear seem so, but they are very heavily controlled by the franchising corporation.

All franchise agreements vary. – Garth

#345 Terrie on 01.04.18 at 3:03 pm

sorry for typo…’may appear so,’ works better. :)

#346 HaHaHa on 01.04.18 at 3:10 pm

What is sad is not ALL young people are lazy. But really folks when it comes to small businesses is there not enough fast food joints in this country now contributing to obesity. The owners of these Tim Hortons could kind of work behind the counter. That would save money. Make sure it is the midnite shift too. Oh well robots will take over soon. No need for workers. And robots don’t eat so no customers eventually either.

#347 OttawaMike on 01.04.18 at 3:14 pm

#341 OttawaMike on 01.04.18

Duly noted.

And-

We socialist snowflakes are sensitive…

#348 Dhimitraq Ceco on 01.04.18 at 3:19 pm

Garth, if we ask companies who employ minimum wage workers like Walmart, Dollarama, Tim Hortons etc etc Can your company function and make money without the contribution of the minimum wage workers? What do you think the answer would be? I am sure the answer would be NO. So these companies don’t hire minimum wage workers out of their “generosity” but because without their contribution companies cant exist. So if you need them you should pay a bit more. If you don’t need them lay them off and let see how it will work for the company . Business shouldn’t make money out of misery of people.

Employing people is misery? Think we’ve just hit bottom. – Garth

#349 Cassius Clay on 01.04.18 at 3:21 pm

I blame it all on the Mesopotamians. They started with clay money (genius), but then moved on to silver. A shekel was about 10 grams of silver ($5.60) and equal to a month’s labour. No wonder today’s businesses have such a tough go. Kings could fine you 20 shekels for a slapping a man in the face and 60 for biting his nose. No fines for biting one’s own nose, maybe that’s why everything turned to sand.

http://factsanddetails.com/world/cat56/sub363/item1514.html

#350 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 3:27 pm

350 comments already.
Hotbutton topic amounst the social justice warrior youth of our country.

And they actually think the Liberal govt. under Trudeau cares…

We’re all doomed under a tax and spend more agenda…..
The Screwed Canadian Millenials may eventually wake up and realize they were wrong….but by then our economy will be thoroughly Greekified…..too late and the boomers will all be gone and the children of Millenials will hate them even more than us.
Karma.

#351 AGuyInVancouver on 01.04.18 at 3:27 pm

Eat the Rich (but not their crappy frozen donuts)

Tim Hortons has suckled at the teat of the Temporary Foreign Workers Program for years.
“In the past, Tim Hortons has said it employs around 4,500 temporary foreign workers, equal to about five per cent of its 100,000-strong workforce.”
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/a-growing-problem-for-tim-hortons/

5%. Wow. Some serious suckling. – Garth

#352 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 3:32 pm

Why Bitcoin is a farce (Ponzi Scheme). Destined to return to its true value, zero. A good read.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/01/01/the-illogical-value-proposition-of-bitcoin/#2e7513786218

#353 GenX on 01.04.18 at 3:36 pm

The minimum wage doesn’t matter. Just hire your workers under a government program! In 1998 i worked for $3.24/hr because i was hired under a govt program (minimum wage was $5.60). Employers paid $1/hr of that. Most of my coworkers were also hired under this program. Half of them were also immigrants. Today this company is a successful pot producer listed on the TSE. I figure this story gives great ammunition to both sides of the debate. Wish I’d posted yesterday. LOL

#354 Jungle on 01.04.18 at 3:37 pm

For anyone that has not checked the news.. this is blowing up. Premier has now pubically called them bullies. Not good way to deal with this. Im afraid that most of the public will side with premier and wealthy franchises crying wolf over wage hikes. Not good for Tim Hortons.

#355 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 3:39 pm

# 331 Ben

I don’t think that simply stating that “Rentier” is an established economic concept discussed by Economists supports your argument. Supply and Demand is a well recognized concept too, but I can’t simply state that a higher Minimum Wage will result in lower demand for low-skilled labour and therefore I am right, you are wrong, and you should go back and do some more reading on economics. I bet even Karl Marx discussed Supply and Demand ;)

I do see your point about land appreciating due society’s collective efforts and network effects. For example, if more people move to the city, in a way they create a positive externality that increases the need for density and land values through no effort of the land owner. Same thing if the Municipality adds sewer service to a neighbourhood.

However, I fail to see what this has to do with Minimum Wage. Also, don’t land owners pay property tax based on the value of their land as you are suggesting they should? And I’m sorry, but if you’re only earning minimum wage in a dense city, you shouldn’t be able to buy a detached house and probably need to live in the suburbs somewhere. It’s a price signal sent by the market that means people who work hard and become doctors or entrepreneurs get to live in the more valuable scarce real estate. Granted even that is a bit out of whack in Vancouver and Toronto these days, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the Minimum Wage that somehow is being equated to a living wage in downtown metropolitan areas.

#356 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 3:42 pm

@ 334 FairisFair

I am not saying that the rich pay lots of taxes on yachts (although I’m sure they do). What I am saying is that we should tax consumption and not productive activity that generates income. So basically have zero income tax, a big VAT (and smaller government), and some carve-out so that necessities are not subject to the VAT.

#357 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 3:46 pm

#337 millmech

Also I have two boys in their mid twenties who study and train hard in their field and are in high demand and pull in a six figure income every year, if they quit their jobs today they have another job tomorrow.
Smart motivated people with a good work ethic have no problem finding work, and there are those who need government to force a raise because they can not earn it.
—————————————————————-
You obviously taught them well. I too have two sons who left home at 19, now 45 and 46, both own businesses, both very well off. Very proud. Pathetic to listen to a particular poster whining constantly. Parents probably had to sell to get him/her out of the basement.

#358 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 3:47 pm

#337 millmech on 01.04.18 at 2:31 pm
277 Howard
Sorry but I know lots of companies screaming for labourers that pay a starting wage of over $20.00 hr, can not find anyone to fill those jobs.

—————-

Kiddo, we’re supposed to have something called capitalism in this country. If you can’t find someone to work your crap job for $20/hour, you have to raise your wage, offer benefits, improve job conditions etc. That’s EXACTLY how capitalism is supposed to work. It doesn’t mean the gubmint imports slaves for you. Jesus Christ a good job TWENTY YEARS AGO paid $20/hour.

#359 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 3:48 pm

Crypto craziness.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-04/anatomy-crypto-nightmare-ripple-ceo-now-richer-zuckerberg

#360 Sonny on 01.04.18 at 4:02 pm

Tech giant is rolling out new robots to replace workers in hotels, airports and supermarkets

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/04/south-koreas-lg-electronics-to-introduce-new-robots-at-ces-2018.html

#361 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 4:02 pm

#291 jerry on 01.04.18 at 10:58 am

The jobs and services that can be automated or replaced by technology, will be. Mandatory government wage minimums are a headline grabbing passing fancy.

When assembly lines are fully robotic or check out stations are automated, where will governments capture payroll taxes , health taxes and income taxes?

Can Robots be taxed like workers?
———————————————————-
Check this out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferhicks/2017/04/04/this-recycling-robot-uses-artificial-intelligence-to-sort-your-recyclables/#7019557e2d35

#362 Gil on 01.04.18 at 4:11 pm

Adrian #220
How about you read the article instead of quoting bits out of context. Researcher you are quoting said that previous research that was supporting the idea of increasing minimum wage was flawed and the current study (that disproves it) is addressing the previous flaws.
Yes he didn’t find that in small restaurants it affected the employment. So what? And if the changes for example do not affect janitors but hurt everybody else changes are good by your logic? ;-)

#363 Gil on 01.04.18 at 4:13 pm

sorry, my previous post is for Adrian #237

#364 Gil on 01.04.18 at 4:16 pm

Blessed Canadian Millenial #234
I didn’t know that, but I don’t think that facts ever get in the way of ideologues like SCM :-)

#365 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:18 pm

#355 Jungle on 01.04.18 at 3:37 pm

Damn you’re right.

Wynne says Tim Hortons founder’s heirs are ‘bullying’ employees over benefit cuts
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/ontario-premier-kathleen-wynne-accuses-tim-hortons-heirs-of-bullying-employees/article37496159/

This is great. Great PR for Wonderful Wynne and a total disaster for Tim Hortons and the greedy Ron Joyce family wintering in Florida.

MFW this is what propels Wynne to another strong, stable, provincial majority Liberal government.

AHHAAHA

https://imgur.com/bY4RrNL

#366 Eyestrain on 01.04.18 at 4:18 pm

Away from my desk this evening (charity function).
Could someone volunteer to spell check? Usual rate.

#367 Ace Goodheart on 01.04.18 at 4:19 pm

RE: #360 Ronaldo on 01.04.18 at 3:48 pm

Crypto craziness.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-04/anatomy-crypto-nightmare-ripple-ceo-now-richer-zuckerberg

This is all theoretical. If he was to actually try to sell all his Ripple, he would crater the market, shut down all of the exchanges, and cause a price dip that would change his status from billionaire down to millionaire.

#368 Ace Goodheart on 01.04.18 at 4:23 pm

RE: #337 millmech on 01.04.18 at 2:31 pm
277 Howard
Sorry but I know lots of companies screaming for labourers that pay a starting wage of over $20.00 hr, can not find anyone to fill those jobs.

These are probably skilled jobs.

If we could somehow convince people to stop doing Liberal Arts degrees, we would have a lot more people who are working at $20-$30 per hour jobs and a lot less burger flippers and coffee jockeys.

Word to the wise: get a skill, get a ticket and then start earning your $20-$30 per hour with benefits and yearly wage increases. No one cares if you have a degree in Liberal Arts (and no one will pay a dime for that)

#369 InvestorsFriend on 01.04.18 at 4:24 pm

Rentier? We should all strive to be that?

#208 ben on 01.03.18 at 11:30 pm
come on Garth that’s weak stuff. Talk about the actual problems.

Here is what people have a problem with: rentiers. Unearned wealth appropriation via exploitation such as high rents and farming people through land.

Anyhow you can pick holes in my brief description of this, however “rentier” is a well-established economic concept that would be instantly recognisable to any economist you’ve ever heard of, including pin-up-boy (but not read) Adam Smith.

****************************************
Ben, from your link at 213, Smith suggested land owners were rentiers and should be taxed. We do that.

I have read Wealth of Nations a couple times but don’t pretend to have memorized it.

I believe Smith and most economists said there were three factors of production: Land, labour and capital (think machines and these days software).

As of 2018 I think it can be argued that it is the accumulated capital consisting of knowledge and the installed base of infrastructure and machines and system of all kings, AND NOT Labour, that produces most of our quality of life.

The labour ability of humans has not changed. No more raw land has been created. Yet standards of living are vastly higher. What explains this is the accumulation of capital of all kinds, meaning not money but the useful knowledge, factories, roads, improved land, and systems of all kinds.

It is capital that is mostly producing the goods and services that we all enjoy.

Smith never argues that land or capital should not be rewarded. Taxed yes. But rewarded with after tax returns.

It is essential for young people today who want to have a better than average living standard to accumulate capital by owning businesses either directly or indirectly (stocks and bonds). The owners of capital are going to reap more rewards than most people who only have labour even intellectual labour to sell.

Rentier is most decidedly not a bad word. It’s a goal!

I don’t know about land prices being too high. Maybe so. But owners of land deserve the return the land brings.

Argue for more taxes on rentiers if you wish. That is probably fair. But meanwhile don’t forget to strive to become one.

#370 Newcomer on 01.04.18 at 4:24 pm

#154 PAM on 01.03.18 at 9:15 pm
What if the business owners, entrepreneurs and anyone with any ambition shut down their businesses, go on strike, take their wealth and disappear?
——

We do it all the time, Pam. It’s known as retirement, or spending more time with family, or just moving on. Fortunately, the free market is like a healthy forest. If a big tree falls down, or there is a fire, dozens of new trees start to grow. You needn’t worry about the supply of new entrepreneurs. Half the world wants to be their own boss.

#371 Gil on 01.04.18 at 4:28 pm

#323 Mattl
The stuff is basic but it looks like you underestimate the consequence.
When you are talking about margins most likely margins within the same segment (fast food, cleaning services etc) are already similar so it’s not like wage increase is going to weed out bad apples. I do not need government for that. It will cause reduction in service quality and inflation (combination of the two).
For services that can be outsourced it will add incentive to outsource them (manufacturing , call centers etc.)
After all your productivity is what it is, and it didn’t go up by a third overnight.
I do not understand one thing – who said that working in Tim Hortons should be able to sustain your life in Toronto? Its a job for a high school student, or somebody between gigs. If government is trying to force the pay to go up, everything that is not the obligation (benefits, breaks etc.) might go down

#372 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 4:33 pm

@#359 Social Justice Millenial

“Kiddo, we’re supposed to have something called capitalism in this country. If you can’t find someone to work your crap job for $20/hour, you have to raise your wage, offer benefits, improve job conditions etc. That’s EXACTLY how capitalism is supposed to work. It doesn’t mean the gubmint imports slaves for you. Jesus Christ

+++++

Kinda hard to pay inexperienced workers $20/hr if the union says the experienced staff should be paid $24

I have several millenials working for me.
Constantly late, uninterested, constantly texting friends, pay cheque to paycheque existence while living at Mom and Dads.
Not my business until it affects MY business.
( My fave was this week when grunt labourer showed up in his Mom’s $60,000 Audi because “I couldn’t afford gas for my truck”…..)
Yep.
Being a millennial is SUCH a struggle…..especially when Mommy and Daddy are ALWAYS bailing these entitled pricks out.
Children frittering away their hard earned lemonade stand pennies couldn’t be as mindless as these grown bratz burning cash faster than they make it.

#373 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:38 pm

#365 Gil on 01.04.18 at 4:16 pm
#220 Gil on 01.04.18 at 12:09 am
#234 Blessed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:42 am

Gil and BCM, actually I’ve repeatedly addressed that Seattle “study”. You’re the ones who can’t accept the facts because you think your feelings are more important.

Let’s go over the facts. Seattle announced a step up to $15/hour min wage a few years ago. Conservatives ridiculed it all over North America. I was promised fire and brimstone, economic apocalypse, Seattle would be in ruins. Here’s what actually happened. THE FACTS.

I’ve repeatedly posted these charts.

Here is Seattle employment. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SEAT653NA

Straight up. Employment soared.

Now here’s unemployment. It plummeted down to 4%. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SEAT653URN

Those are the FACTS.

It was such a huge success that corporate shills had to come up with some absurd study that it was terrible for workers, to trick people like you who don’t know any better. You know what the funny part is? If the Seattle $15/hour min wage is so bad for workers, why aren’t the workers complaining? It’s only the corporate shills complaining.

UW minimum-wage study doesn’t reflect reality of work in Seattle
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/uw-minimum-wage-study-doesnt-reflect-reality-of-work-in-seattle/

Seattle’s crazy restaurant boom
https://www.seattletimes.com/pacific-nw-magazine/seattles-crazy-restaurant-boom/

Case closed.

#374 Sotiri on 01.04.18 at 4:40 pm

++Employing people is misery? Think we’ve just hit bottom. – Garth++
Garth taking my words out of context is not smart. Employing people is not misery. Employing people in indispensable job positions like for example the cashier at Wallmart, Dollarama, Tim Hortons etc etc and not paying them enough money to have roof over their head and food on the table – that is to make money out misery of people.

Minimum wages are no more intended to be living wages than CPP is intended to fund your retirement. Giving people jobs gives people choices, not misery. – Garth

#375 Leo Trollstoy on 01.04.18 at 4:48 pm

I’m having Tims right now.

Mmmm delicious

Tastes like millenial tears

#376 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:50 pm

#373 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 4:33 pm

You know, reading comments like these.. it strikes me.

Boomer “employers” are the most entitled, spoiled, whiny brats on the planet.

Stop with the ageism or you will be history. Again. – Garth

#377 Newcomer on 01.04.18 at 4:51 pm

#174 X on 01.03.18 at 9:59 pm
Funny too how people complain about the changes these people have made to their business, rather than applaud them for having given employees paid birthdays off, and paid breaks in the first place. How many businesses do that in the first place.
———–

They don’t need applause. They are not doing that to be nice, they are doing that because the wages they pay are not enough, by themselves, to attract an retain employees. A paid birthday off is equivalent to a 5 cent per hour raise, so it’s cheap, but it makes the employee feel loved. It’s like when a bank offers you 20,000 Airmiles to sign up for a card with a $200 annual fee and a 19% interest rate. Would you applaud the bank too?

#378 Ubul on 01.04.18 at 4:52 pm

“Minimum wages are no more intended to be living wages.”

With this logic, an entire industry was not intended to be running on minimum wages.

Finish the sentence, “than CPP is intended to fund retirement.” True statement. – Garth

#379 Gil on 01.04.18 at 4:53 pm

#366 Screwed Canadian Millenial

I understand that Wynne is wonderful for you, but how are you doing under the liberals that are in power for the last 14(!!!!) years. Enjoying it? ;-)

I feel sorry for the poor in Ontario these days, because whatever economic fumble happens will hurt them the most. It’s always easy to think that somebody else will pay for you, it doesn’t work that way. If government wants to do its job and help the poor, raise the taxes and redistribute. Believe me I do not need more taxes but that’s much more transparent and accountable, they do not want to be a bad guy . Politicians never do. Take the credit for the measures and let somebody else to figure out how to pay for it. Good luck, buddy. you are going to need it

#380 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:57 pm

DELETED

#381 SimplyPut7 on 01.04.18 at 4:58 pm

#355 Jungle on 01.04.18 at 3:37 pm

Businesses just have to be more subtle about how they will deal with the increase in expenses, to avoid being singled out from doing something all of them are going to eventually do:

* Instead of a letter cutting hours, they will not hire any people for a year or two
* They will invest more in online websites and shopping apps for phones to provide more self-checkout options for customers instead of having to pay staff to be in their stores
* Food portions for lunch and dinner will get smaller, prices will go up, and that expensive item they used to add to meals for free will be an extra cost to meals now
* Sales will be less frequent and/or the discount will be lower than they used to be, or my favourite, raise the prices and have the items go on sale every other week to make shoppers feel special about getting a deal

Also customers will spend less, as much as everyone says they are for the wage increase, most people are not as loyal to their local businesses as the government would like you to believe.

If prices rise at one place, in larger cities you can easily find a substitute store within a matter of seconds. Today at a local food court in downtown Toronto, several fast food places raised their prices to offset the increase in wages and 90% of the people stood in a long line at one place because they didn’t increase their prices.

Life did not get better overnight for lower income individuals; it stayed the same or became worse.

Didn’t Econ or Business 101 in college and university teach this in first year?

#382 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:58 pm

DELETED

#383 Gil on 01.04.18 at 5:01 pm

#374 Screwed Canadian Millenial
Bud

a. your links are from 2016, we are in 2018 remember? It takes time. The data that I pointed out is the second year of the same study commissioned by the ones who introduced the raise. Hard to argue they are ideologically motivated

b. when I said 2016 results were inconclusive because for the lack of data they allowed both left and right to claim they are correct. Left pointed out that unemployment hasn’t gone up, right pointed out Seattle’s economy did worth that economy of every neighboring county that didn’t raise the wage.
Remember if your fund manager added 3% in a year everybody around you added 5% you underperformed

#384 Pepito on 01.04.18 at 5:05 pm

Minimum wages are no more intended to be living wages than CPP is intended to fund your retirement. Giving people jobs gives people choices, not misery. – Garth
______________________

Nonsence, CPP + OAS + GIS are intended prrcisely for those with no other means, and many seniors, in fact, live SOLELY on these payments. Whatever the intention of minimum wage was originally, the reality is that many people now depend on it as a living wage. And yes, slaving away at two jobs below minimum wage just to eat and have a roof over one’s head is misery.

Like arguing with a broccoli. – Garth

#385 Gil on 01.04.18 at 5:06 pm

#379 Ubul
Industry doesn’t exist to fund somebody’s life style. It tries to match capital with labor. Supply and demand for both to make the profit. You can set the labor laws and minimal wages, but don’t expect the investment capital to stay. That’s all. Where investment can’t leave because fo the type of industry expect inflation and fewer perks that are outside of legislation

#386 yorkville renter on 01.04.18 at 5:12 pm

complainers cherry pick a few bad actors and apply that to all business owners — it’s like “racism” against entrepreneurs.

why not discuss the smaller shops that will struggle to survive because of the sharp, overnight increase?

dry cleaners
dance instructors
barbers
ice cream place
greasy spoons
small grocery stores
fruit markets
fish sellers
pet stores
dog walkers
independent coffee shops

Do people not care for their success?

If a wage earner goes to FLA for a winter break, are they to be scolded for earning a living above minimum wage?

Haters gonna hate, but that hate does NOTHING to improve this conversation, the issue, or the possible solutions.

The big issue here isn’t the rate (as people say, why not $20/hr?), the big issue is that OVERNIGHT the rate JUMPED 20%

Where was your hero Wynne for the past 10+ years when the Libs were in power? Why didn’t they go to $12 three years ago? Don’t you see this is a ploy to garner votes?

It’s like people thanking Flaherty for reducing amortizations back to 25, when he was the one who made them 40 and caused so much crap.

You don’t reward people correcting their own mistakes!

#387 technical analysis? on 01.04.18 at 5:17 pm

Minimum wages are no more intended to be living wages than CPP is intended to fund your retirement. Giving people jobs gives people choices, not misery. – Garth

____________________________________

is that like when the government gives auto companies billions in grants, tax breaks, and free money to come here?

or is it like when CMHC guarantees mortgages so deadbeats can buy houses? and the banking oligopoly can make billions?

or maybe it’s like when the government gives endless loans to Bombardier and other such companies to keep certain families wealthy?

#388 down_boy on 01.04.18 at 5:20 pm

#376 Leo Trollstoy on 01.04.18 at 4:48 pm
I’m having Tims right now.
Mmmm delicious
Tastes like millenial tears

Now that was funny.

#389 SimplyPut7 on 01.04.18 at 5:39 pm

#374 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:38 pm

Employment soared in Seattle because the entire city was (and is) doing well.

This would be similar to certain businesses in Alberta having to raise their minimum wage to $15 an hour during the oil boom in the mid 2010s when people would rather make money in the oil and gas industry than work for them.

#390 Kelsey on 01.04.18 at 5:48 pm

# 387 technical analysis

So you are saying we need more government intervention, because programs like the CMHC were such a resounding success that put housing in reach of all the working and middle class folks? After all, everyone deserves a mortgage, just like everyone deserves a Living Wage, so I don’t possibly see what could go wrong by requiring Tim Hortons to pay teenagers $15/hr – it’s not like Tim Hortons could change their behaviour and invest in automation that would put adults earning supplementary income for their families out of work.

# 374 Screwed Canadian Millenial

You keep pointing us to a link that is an opinion piece based on a preliminary working study by a socialist university as some kind of fact about the long-term impact of the Minimum Wage.

Here’s the biography of the author of the article you linked:

Rebecca Smith, who lives in Seattle, is the deputy director of the National Employment Law Project, which fights for policies to create good jobs, strengthen protections, and support for low-wage workers and the unemployed

Gee, I wonder how she feels about the minimum wage.

#391 None on 01.04.18 at 5:53 pm

“Minimum wages are no more intended to be living wages than CPP is intended to fund your retirement. Giving people jobs gives people choices, not misery. – Garth”

Talk about being disconnected with a large portion of Canadians. Minimum wage is EXACTLY for that purpose.

In Digby, maybe. – Garth

#392 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 5:58 pm

DELETED

#393 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 6:00 pm

#390 SimplyPut7 on 01.04.18 at 5:39 pm
#374 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 4:38 pm

Employment soared in Seattle because the entire city was (and is) doing well.

————-

So you just admitted the $15/hour min wage doesn’t kill jobs and there goes the entire conservative lie down the tubes.

#394 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 6:02 pm

#393 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 5:58 pm
DELETED

Garth cmon what was wrong with that comment? I’m not allowed to say that the minimum wage is supposed to be a living wage? I’m not allowed to bring up that the only option for a lot of the 350,000 immigrants we bring in every year is a minimum wage job? Don’t they deserve to live too?

Lay off immigration. We get enough of that right-wing tribal crap from south of the border. It will not be published here. – Garth

#395 conan on 01.04.18 at 6:05 pm

So reading all the comments and someone is buying timbits.

#396 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 6:07 pm

I’m not right wing Garth but it amazes me that you’re so unwilling to discuss what an oversupply of labour does to wages, job quality and unemployment. This is purely an economic argument.

Anyways I have to go outside now. If I don’t post again later, I died of hypothermia.

#397 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 8:49 pm

@#398 SCM
“If I don’t post again later, I died of hypothermia.”
++++++

Nah. More likely hypertension.

#398 Al on 01.04.18 at 8:51 pm

Hey Screwed Millenial.

IF people don’t like their minimum wage job then they should change their situation by A) working harder b) working more jobs c) go back to school and increase their education to get higher pay and a better job

Input = output

Can’t be lazy and expect more money. Life doesn’t work like that.

#399 crowdedelevatorfartz on 01.04.18 at 8:56 pm

@#394 Rental Property
“If that was me I’d kick my own ass….”
++++++

Could you post that on YouTube?
I’d like to see it.

#400 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 01.04.18 at 10:17 pm

#400 Al on 01.04.18 at 8:51 pm
Can’t be lazy and expect more money. Life doesn’t work like that.

———————

They’re working you moron.

The lazy ones are the owners sitting on their butts in Florida doing nothing.

#401 Trocxi on 01.05.18 at 2:24 am

#402 Screwed Canadian Millenial

#400 Al on 01.04.18 at 8:51 pm
Can’t be lazy and expect more money. Life doesn’t work like that.

———————

They’re working you moron.

The lazy ones are the owners sitting on their butts in Florida doing nothing.

—————————-

Moron? You were told to watch your tongue.
You know sh*t, stoopid Marxist ..
Yes, they are sitting in Florida doin nothing, which they rightly deserve!
Like it or not, entitled dummy.

#402 Deputytaxdetective on 01.05.18 at 4:06 am

#121 will on 01.03.18 at 8:30 pm
question regarding contributions in kind:

how about this for a strategy:

i have securities in my cash account that have fallen in value. i don’t want to sell them just yet. can i contribute them to my tfia (tax free investment account), then still use the capital loss against future gains in my cash account? what’s wrong with this strategy? thx.

—————————————————-
No, don’t do it! A capital loss is NEVER deductible when transferring assets to a registered
account. Tread carefully here!
This website is an excellent resource:

https://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/investing/transfersharestorrsp.htm

#403 ben on 01.05.18 at 10:20 am

> Can’t be lazy and expect more money. Life doesn’t work like that.

Horton “heirs”. Tax inheritance. If they are so smart they will work their way to riches, right?

#404 Gil on 01.05.18 at 11:33 am

#393 Screwed Canadian Millenial
As you could probably guess from my writing – I am an immigrant as well (not yesterday off the boat but nevertheless) and please do not give me “immigrant” argument for minimum wage. I am making 4-5 times average canadian salary, my wife about the same and we are not the most financially successful in the family. Bottom line is – do not confuse social programs and laws for helping poor with immigration. If it is so our immigration program sucks.
We should be bringing educated / skilled people that allow bump in productivity (until new technology does) to cover for aging population. Bringing people that by design go to minimum wage is the problem. I understand that for the liberals its an easy way of increasing electoral base but for the country?! If you need to provide all the social services to an immigrant that can’t find a good job, your immigration policy needs to be fine tuned

#405 Gil on 01.05.18 at 11:42 am

#398 Screwed Canadian Millenial
Oversupply of what labor? We have abundance of mathematicians and researches for innovation? Qualified doctors that we could use with investing 5% into certification compared to the training cost? The same goes for trades. the problem is that the left starts treating immigration as a social service. How about recent immigration minister remarks about “discrimination as a result of refusing immigration on health basis”. Joke! Purpose of immigration program is to find and attract people that you need. Not the ones that need you. It’s close, just a couple of words rearranged but completely different meaning ;-)
You want to help, send money to forejgn country, help them improve life, get a refugee stream if people are in danger but it has nothing to do with immigration program

#406 Gil on 01.05.18 at 1:07 pm

#405 ben
In today’s small world you will just push the uber rich to change citizenship to avoid your “tax inheritance”.
Government is too big, too slow and too stupid tobe able to outmaneuver agile smart people that have smart accountants. Instead keep it fair (yes the term is ambiguous) so majority of the wealthy want to pay their fair (again) share for the benefit of the nation. Once you try to make it punitive, government will lose every time

#407 Drac on 01.05.18 at 1:41 pm

Why is it that no one addresses the fact that the rise in minimum wage has far outstripped inflation. In 1986 (in BC) I earned minimum wage of $3.65/hr. Put this into the Bank of Canada inflation calculator and we can see that it is equivalent to $7.19 now. How is it that ill informed opinion that workers at minimum wage are worse off now can go unchallenged? Minimum wage workers have never had it so good.

#408 Steven Rowlandson on 01.05.18 at 2:48 pm

RE:332
“I suppose this “Me First” attitude is a basic feature of capitalism and human nature. It’s why we need government to sometimes do what benefits the greater good at the expense of the few.”

This might work if government could be kept from being bribed and seduced by special interests.
I suspect that this is not easily accomplished in any kind of a civilized manner.

#409 Steven Rowlandson on 01.05.18 at 2:59 pm

“Will existing workers who have been above minimum wage now expect increases?”

Yes but I think the chances of getting such rises will be rather poor. The skilled worker will be on par with the unskilled until proven otherwise. In any case all of this is academic because of the three years pay rule applied to the cost of real estate. $15 per hour is roughly 16 cents on the dollar compared to what is needed to buy the average home in Canada. $15 an hour is effectively nothing unless you are living in the late 1960s.

#410 Gil on 01.05.18 at 8:45 pm

Steven #411
I disagree. If the minimum wage is arbitrarily raised above productivity of the employee, business will have to cut somewhere. This somewhere will come from variety of places one of them is slower increases for more skilled co-workers. Unintended subsidy. By co-worker, consumer , employer.
I lived in Soviet Union as a child , two immigrations later I realize it’s almost impossible to escape populist ideas. Why people do not learn from history

#411 Gil on 01.05.18 at 8:48 pm

I guess I should have been clearer with what I disagreed in the last post. With the statement that skilled will remain on par wage wise until they prove otherwise. What’s there to prove? Employer knew it all along, but they have to find money somewhere

#412 Sean Moore on 01.06.18 at 1:49 pm

Not a bad rant, same as most other expert commentators… Really. I agree with most of it, but I’m no expert and usually wrong.
One thing missing, perhaps… That is, heaven forbid if Horton’s has to cut their dividend for a period of adjustment. That woukd he just over the top, just too much.

#413 Kate w on 01.06.18 at 3:45 pm

Wow a lot of discussion over minimum wage
My experience and understanding is that minimum wage was meant as part time work and on a temporary basis likely for teenagers or as a second income
If you are trying to live and perhaps support others on minimum wage you have made a serious error, perhaps staying in school would have been a better option to gain further earning potential