Desperation

Poor Evan. Herewith his tragic story unfolds, in four emails.

Monday night, urgent to Garth:

I don’t know how quickly you answer but tomorrow is the day I draft a purchase agreement for a house purchase.

I’ve become an addict of reading your blog the last two weeks and mainly because I’m about to purchase a house and I’ve become worried so much after reading your blog! My girlfriend and I have lived at home till now (32 & 33yrs old) and are dying to move out and “get life started”. Two months ago we decided the market has seemed to cool and were both ready. We had hell of a time deciding where to live because of the costs, being close to family, a commutable area for both of us as we work in opposite directions and where we want to be for the next ten years for children and so forth.  We found a home we want to buy, she’s fallen in love with it and we have the chance to buy it without real estate agents for a slight discount (if that can even be said and I don’t believe it its one, just the seller trying to pocket even more). The thought of delaying getting our life started scares us both. We want a house to call home and we both hate the idea of renting where we cannot call it home and can never do what we want as it belongs to someone else. It doesn’t match us well. If we buy this home then we want to plop down for the next ten years and call it our own at least.

We both have savings over 350k combined and have a combined salary currently at 160k as an engineer and health inspector. How bad of a decision am I looking at for buying a house now and carrying a mortgage of 600k and not looking to move for at least 10yrs? We NEED a place to call home, we both want a family SOON and the thought of waiting for the market to play out is lost time in getting life started at our age which should be sooner than later. I’m worried that if I let this house go it will be a regret.

I’m stressing and have gone back and forth if I should do this tomorrow. Don’t know if you reply to these emails of desperation but thought it might be worthwhile to see if you were able to respond.

My sympathetic, empathy-drenched response:

Why do you need to purchase right now? You know rates are going up, mortgage regs are about to change, and that all houses are cheaper in January.

Stop being so wussy and emotional about this. Your life doesn’t start when you get a $600,000 mortgage on a house that may be worth less in a few months. Screw your silly head back on.

Emotionally-crippled Evan eked out a reply:

Wow you responded! I know my emotions have really got me going on this. Hence me sending this email at this time of night!

Yesterday I told her no to the purchase and explained why, today I reverted and said we just need to not keep our eggs in one basket and diversify and go ahead with the purchase. Tomorrow I may revert back with a no (on her birthday no less). The emotions have taken control on losing the house that we’ve “fallen” for and would hate to be wrong on this.

I could tolerate a 5% correction in 2018 for the sake of buying the home we want but not the outcome that you’re predicting. That would devastate her and I.

And, this morning, this arrived:

On the way to the bank I told her that I didn’t want to go through with it this morning. I devastated her and made my gf enraged on her birthday….. sucked really bad but I really hope we’ve done the right thing by not buying this house. She believes that we’ll never find a house that fits what we need again.

I’m hoping that we can buy a place come next March/April as it seems to be an almost must for her. Renting is off the table as well. Here is to hoping you’re right! I think my relationship sort of depends on it!

Is Evan sleeping alone tonight? Maybe every night until there’s an accepted offer? Sounds like that’s where the relationship is headed – suggesting poor Evan has a girlfriend problem, not a real estate one.

There are a few reasons I am boring you with my correspondence. Primarily to provide a first-hand account of what a house can do to healthy brains. It eats them. Owning a home with a giant, throbbing, rate-sensitive mortgage on it becomes the holy grail of existence when, of course, it’s only shelter. For Evan to equate property ownership with ‘starting his life’ at age 32 is beyond pathetic. So much for the frolicking liberty, inhibition, risk-taking and adventure-seeking years of his youth. The dude just wants to turn into his parents. Nobody needs to own a house to (a) get married or (b) have a kid. Just to get bedded, apparently.

Second, this is what helo parents end up with when they keep their kids locked in the basement well into their thirties. All that mothering, cloistering, cocooning and sheltering is creating a generation of dependents who need to slide from one bosom to another. Listen, moisters. There is nothing scary about independence. Nothing wrong with renting. Nothing to be gained (except a bigger down payment) from living endless Groundhog Days in the place where you were born. Adulthood starts when you become an adult, not when your folks let you out.

Third, Evan couldn’t stand more than a 5% real estate correction? Yikes. Don’t buy. 2018 is going to turn out to be one scary year for residential real estate in some markets as mortgage rates increase, the stress test is established and inventory swells this spring. Anyone rushing to buy in 2017 with less than 20% down should plan on losing it.

Fourth, sex and realtors don’t mix. Any relationship that depends on you buying a $800,000 piece of property for a person you haven’t married and don’t even live with yet is destined for a fail. She doesn’t want you, Evan. She’s hot for quartz and hardwood.

This morning in the car when you triggered her was the moment your life began. Now go home and do it to mom. Then email me like a man.

273 comments ↓

#1 Vito on 11.28.17 at 6:12 pm

What if prices go up or don’t come down at all on the house he wanted? Renting isn’t fun. It sucks. It’s expensive it’s never yours and there’s bidding wars.

#2 YVR Optimist on 11.28.17 at 6:14 pm

Tough love, Garth. He will thank you in years to come. She may not.

#3 TRUMP on 11.28.17 at 6:15 pm

DESPERATION = ISIS soldiers being accepted into Canada to help pay for taxes.

DESPERATION = Your Finance Minister taking advantage ofbthe situation.

I CANT BELIEVE CANADIANS PUT UP WITH IT

#4 JSS on 11.28.17 at 6:16 pm

I love this blog because it not only provides financial advice, but relationship counselling advice.

#5 Boycott Mariage en Toronto on 11.28.17 at 6:17 pm

Evan,
GO MGTOW. Do not invest in that Toronto woman. She wouldn’t even let you near her farts if you were in poverty. Why is it that Toronto women are entrapping their men into debt servitude? You’re better off giving your savings to Garth Turner or Ms. Dorothy to manage.

#6 Evan, dude... on 11.28.17 at 6:17 pm

Don’t go into debt 600g’s deep with a girl friend. Even an engineer can figure this one out.

#7 YVRMC on 11.28.17 at 6:18 pm

Wow !, That was full of emotional support for sure. Spot on info. for the decision they want to make though. Wait and see. Its been this long, another 1-2 years wont hurt.

#8 directm on 11.28.17 at 6:19 pm

As I move into the autumn of my life I’ve concluded that investing is a true test of ones character…Know thyself…

#9 Wait There on 11.28.17 at 6:19 pm

“Then email me like a man.”

How do men email? as opposed to women.

#10 ole Doberman on 11.28.17 at 6:20 pm

Not just quartz and hardwood, but sperm to reproduce.

“Love” fades fast, its a business partnersip

#11 The Fat Lady on 11.28.17 at 6:20 pm

You have been LIED TO all along.

The term Conflicts of interest should be interpreted as the Governments way of doing business.

Glad your PRIME MINISTER is a supporter of ISIS soldiers.

GOD HELP US.

#12 Sunshine on 11.28.17 at 6:20 pm

You are a good man Garth. What are some of your fav books ? And whyy?

#13 Jungle on 11.28.17 at 6:21 pm

lol that relationship is over.

#14 Mean Gene on 11.28.17 at 6:21 pm

Woman are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of commitment… me thinks one of the gates are going to be closed for a while.

#15 TheSpangler on 11.28.17 at 6:22 pm

$350k saved at that age. Man they should just save for another like 10 years then live off a sweet dividend paying portfolio.

#16 Smartalox on 11.28.17 at 6:23 pm

Any relationship that depends on you buying a $800,000 piece of property for a person you haven’t married and don’t even live with yet is destined for a fail. She doesn’t want you, Evan. She’s hot for quartz and hardwood.

This. This more than anything: if your life with your spouse is contingent on anything other than your being together, you shouldn’t be together.

By your words, you seem to only be as good to her as the lifestyle that she wants you to provide.

Find a good place and rent together for a year or two. Sign a lease for that period, so that you’ll be secure in your place, and well-motivated to look for something else. It also gives her a fixed end date, so it’s not like you’re wasting away indefinitely.

Strange things happen when people move out of their parents’ houses, and in with each other: the loss of the ‘magic fridge’ and ‘magic dinner table’ and ‘magic laundry hamper’ unmask a lot of attitudes about shared housework, that can tell a lot about a potential spouse or long-term partner.

I suggest that you continue your research.

#17 paracho on 11.28.17 at 6:23 pm

You did this young man a great service . You set him straight . Now it is all up to him .
I think he is just trying to impress the girl . A major wrong in this context … and she is hot for a house .
I do not see this relationship lasting !

#18 TalkingPie on 11.28.17 at 6:24 pm

Kid thinks it’s pathetic to “not own” his home, but he doesn’t think it’s pathetic to still live with his parents well into his thirties? Well, at least he’s got a seriously impressive money stash to show for it. Now he just needs to gain some perspective on life and relationships.

One thing to remember: there is no shortage of houses or women in the world, and they keep making more of both.

I’m with Garth: any woman who blows up on you because you balked at spending 6-7 figures of your own money before you’re even married isn’t in it for the long haul. You’re most likely seen as an accessory in achieving her own goals. Act accordingly.

#19 bellend on 11.28.17 at 6:26 pm

livin at home eats ya brains as well eh? rent man

#20 Take the Deal on 11.28.17 at 6:26 pm

Evan, go back and take the deal. You will regret letting this house go IMO. We listened to Garth 8 years ago and are now completely priced out of the market entirely despite now having 400k down. Renting now for 2.5 times what our mortgage would have been 8 years ago, and moving every 2 years as our homes keep getting torn down. Don’t even get me started on the nearly impossible task of finding a new rental home every 2 years. Once you have kids and they are in school the matter is even further complicated.

I love this blog and read it regularly but we have deep regret for not buying when we could have. Yes, the market could flop (and I dearly hope and want to believe it will)…but it also might not. Then what? I am sick of worrying about where I’m going to live. The stress of that has not been worth the wait.

#21 Jimmy on 11.28.17 at 6:27 pm

Dump her immediately.

#22 Smart or Stupid on 11.28.17 at 6:31 pm

On Nov 2013 I asked the same question to Garth via email about buying 600k house. HIS reply was it’s not worth it and I should rent.
Now the same house is 1.2M and my down payment is 10% vs 15% in 2006

I am still without house

Now let blog dog decide for u what you should do

I went back and read your email. You could not afford the house four years ago, but go ahead and blame me for you shortcoming. Manly of you. — Garth

#23 j on 11.28.17 at 6:31 pm

So, so true. Thanks Garth.

#24 mark on 11.28.17 at 6:31 pm

“we’ll never find a house that fits what we need again”

I’ve been there, guy. Believe me, after a while you begin to notice that most amazing house appears on the market at least once a month. Once you’ve got that idea bedded down, you can wait as long as you want.

#25 FLHTK on 11.28.17 at 6:32 pm

Haha, hilarious. Absolutely right she doesnt want you she wants the house to take from you! Be smart use your head that houses your brain.
Good for you for saying no, I’d keep saying no till you marry this girl!
Man up

#26 broader mind on 11.28.17 at 6:33 pm

Did I just read that correctly. ” Now go home and do it to mom” Something about that just doesn’t sound right.

#27 bren on 11.28.17 at 6:35 pm

ICE COLD! I like it

#28 acdel on 11.28.17 at 6:36 pm

Holy Sh*t Garth, finally reading a post that makes sense to these people (men) in that age group that need to hear this as opposed to what T2 is doing; screw the emotions, especially from whinny brats no matter what your gender is; it has become as insane as this pathetic blog!

I found this link interesting through another poster on a different site; looking for all types of feedback as to what the dogs think of this!

http://abouthungary.hu/issues/putting-families-at-the-core-the-family-housing-support-program-csok/

#29 Paully on 11.28.17 at 6:38 pm

Well said, Garth!

Evan needs to go to the pharmacy and ask for a big bottle of Growacet.

#30 Ustabe on 11.28.17 at 6:42 pm

Health Inspectors/Food Safety Inspectors/Quality Assurance Inspectors in BC average $40.00 per hour.

Engineers are paid what they are paid, same, same in BC or Ontario, the amount depends on you, your experience and training, professional designations, etc.

Both jobs currently have vacancies in my area (not Van or Lower Mainland, inspector with provincial government, engineer with national firm) and I can sell you a lovely 3 bed, 2 bath home all updated and on a proper lot with side yards, back runs into year round salmon stream buffer area of around 1/2 acre, minutes walk from schools, parks, shopping, short drive to anywhere for well under $400,000. Neighbours both side your age.

So…what is the question again?

#31 Newcomer on 11.28.17 at 6:43 pm

That’s funny. True and funny!

#32 Ned Flanders on 11.28.17 at 6:44 pm

Bravo – best blog yet.

Evan – grow a pair.

#33 Lisa on 11.28.17 at 6:46 pm

I can’t wait for this correction to happen!
It will be hard to sympathize with anyone who bought at the peak of the market.

#34 Zapstrap on 11.28.17 at 6:49 pm

Flounder fer sure.

#35 TheDood on 11.28.17 at 6:49 pm

Hopefully fffiiiirrrssst! But probably not.

As for the post…..WOW! Just WOW!

How out of whack are people in this country? What is the solution here?

People – you don’t need to buy a house to be happy!

Talk about bad timing as well – an engineer and inspector between them don’t have enough education to realize that there hasn’t been a worse time to invest in real estate in the last 20 years.

Evan. Buddy. Keep that investment portfolio where it is. Forget buying anything. Rent and Invest!

#36 tccontrarian on 11.28.17 at 6:49 pm

Evan –
I was a home-owner for 16 years (3 different houses). Our last place we lived in for almost a decade and was…’home’.
A nice place – not perfect, but we were comfortable.
A couple years ago we sold with the intention to rent and use the $$’s to invest (wisely), until the correction occured. A bit early some might say, but I’m an active investor and was seeing some really compelling opportunities unfolding, and didn’t want them to get away from me. They didn’t, and I now have x2 the net-worth I had 2 years ago.
Quite ‘accidently’, we found a house to rent which actually feels like ‘home’ MORE than the one we owned for almost 10 years! I don’t understand how or why, but even though it’s not ‘ours’, we like it better in many ways.
Moral of the story: a rental CAN be as much a ‘home’ as anything else.

So, buy now and forever ‘live for the mortgage’, or rent now (even if you have to move 2 or 3 times), and make a sensible decision to buy – when prices correct/crash.

TCC

#37 Garth Rocks on 11.28.17 at 6:51 pm

In Garth We Trust

Dear Garth,

Why are there so many stupid people out there?
The older I get the more I realize that people
are morons.

I don’t think that I am anything special and
it doesn’t make me feel better to put down
others, but Christ…most people are true idiots.

I’m surrounded by people that know everything
about Sports Stars and Celebrities yet know
nothing about what really matters.

Put down your stupid phone and spent 5 minutes
learning something useful.

Gotta go, I need another spiced rum and cola.

#38 Evan Grow Up! on 11.28.17 at 6:51 pm

I’m in my mid 40’s, 3 kids, great dog and we rent. My life began in my twenties when I moved out and married the women of my dreams. I have a GREAT life. I have an excellent job, close to 1 million in a mix of stocks, bonds and cash. I travel extensively and live a wonderful life with a wife that adores me and life is good. Grow up, a house with a massive mortgage does not equal maturity. A girlfriend that freaks out because you don’t want to blow your brains out on debt, does not sound like a girl of your dreams. Anyway, that’s my two cents.

#39 Stuck in Richmond on 11.28.17 at 6:52 pm

Hey Evan
Consider yourself lucky. Run from your girlfriend as far and fast as you can. there is another billion of females in this world, and not all of them need a house. I was in your shoes back in 2011, when prices were half of what they are now in Vancouver, and my wife didn’t speak to me for 2 weeks after refusing to buy the place we could not afford.
Get over it, this was just small stress test of your relationship, and the result are sad to watch.
Find yourself a woman who will appreciate you for who you are, and not for what you own.

#40 Bezengy on 11.28.17 at 6:54 pm

I just received my scotia loc statement and I guess because I was short on a couple of payment (my bad) they raised my interest rate from 5 to 11%. Now I see their profits have risen to 11 %. Coincidence? I think not! Don’t worry about me though as I’ll make damned sure to keep my balance at $1 dollar for the next couple of years and make them mail me a statement every month.

#41 MSM-Free Zone on 11.28.17 at 6:55 pm

Buyer horniness/remorse.
…..So many Black Friday flyers.
……….So little time.

#42 Timberr on 11.28.17 at 7:01 pm

And in other similar news about helos and moisters….

According to John Pasalis:

“TREB is lobbying the government to “allow for the intergenerational use of parents’ RRSP funds by their children” to buy a house”

https://twitter.com/JohnPasalis/status/935629267299422211

#43 buster baxter on 11.28.17 at 7:02 pm

Not sure whether or not this guy will thank you for the financial advice in five/ten years,Garth, but the “now go home and do it to mom” advice is sure to send him to counselling.

I commend you for responding to this gentleman in such a timely fashion–I assume it was well into the evening when you read and replied to his e-mail. That alone deserves praise.

#44 dienekes on 11.28.17 at 7:04 pm

To Evan:
Dump that fool, go to Croatia, get a real girl.
Beautiful, mature, no stress women there.
Canadian women suck.
Sorry girls, it’s true.

#45 Prairieboy43 on 11.28.17 at 7:06 pm

Marry a “NO” Girl (no, I don’t need those shoes, dress, or SUV). When she has to separate her (your), cash for a home. When you need to pry that cash out of her hand with crowbar, for deposit. That is when you have realized, you made the correct choice. The rest of your life will be piece of cake. Listen to the “no”girl, she usually makes sense.

#46 Paully on 11.28.17 at 7:07 pm

Very interesting piece by William Watson in the Financial Post today about how much the rich actually contribute in taxes.

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/william-watson-thank-the-rich-theyre-the-ones-paying-for-everything

#47 TFSeh on 11.28.17 at 7:09 pm

The goal is to get out of debt by years end. Got 6K in my TFSA, 3K in savings, and a 13K credit card debt that I want to get rid of. With my calculations, I can wipe out the credit card debt by years end if I use the 6K in my TFSA. Do I withdraw it and start the year debt free or leave the TFSA and pay off the debt by March 2018?

#48 Kilt on 11.28.17 at 7:09 pm

Hmm.
$160K a year. $350K in savings.
Assume 4% return on savings (pretty conservative). Should be able to get by on $70K a year quite nicely. After taxes, that leaves about $40K in savings.
In 10 years you have a million cash or investments (that are paying you $4K a month for doing nothing). Most of which could be sheltered.
Or you could buy the house.

As for the house being the perfect one. That’s crap. I looked at over 40 before we purchased. I could have picked 4 of the 40. And even when you find the perfect house, it might not have the perfect neighbors. I would focus more on the neighborhood than the house itself. Houses can be modified.

Kilt.

#49 just a dude on 11.28.17 at 7:09 pm

Way to go, Evan, the gonads have finally lowered!

Garth said it best: Your life has just begun. Go ahead and embrace that freedom that seems to terrify people of your age, for reasons that I just can’t wrap my head around.

You’ve taken a huge first step in putting your foot down in the face of a situation that you were clearly not comfortable with. Congrats & may you prosper going forward, regardless what the damn housing market does. You’re smart and you’re young . . . now go and kick some butt and live life to the fullest, with your current mate or with a new one if this one ends up not being worthy of you.

Good luck!

#50 SmarterSquirrel on 11.28.17 at 7:09 pm

Why the need to buy a house? As long as the monthly cost of renting a house is well below the monthly cost of buying a house, I’ll keep renting. That way I can keep pocketing what I don’t pay the bank for the mortgage, what I don’t pay the government for property taxes, what I don’t pay a handyman for repairs, what I don’t pay for heating and cooling, what I don’t pay for home owners insurance and what I didn’t have to pay for a down payment, so that I can increase my portfolio of investments and my passive income stream. And if interest rates go up, it won’t affect my sleep one bit.

Even though I rent, it still feels like a home. It’s newly renovated. Crown molding, nice hardwood floors, and stainless appliances. A nice comforter on the bed found on a trip to IKEA. We give candy to kids on Hallowe’en while sitting on the front porch. I have paintings and pictures on the walls, and I just raked a bunch of leaves today because it was nice and sunny outside. Every now and then we even bake cookies. And we’re starting to scope out a real tree to bring home for Christmas. You don’t need to own the house to do that. You can rent it.

Why are so many people so eager to take on more and more debt? If you lose your job how will you pay for all that debt you owe on a house? If you find a better job in another town, why take on the hassle of then having to sell a house?

By renting instead of taking on the liabilities of a house, and living within and below my means, I’ve saved, invested and created a steady passive income stream. It keeps me safe in case I lose my job. Even without a job I can still pay the rent, keep the lights on, eat a meal, see a movie and travel. Or I guess I could have put everything on buying a house and scraped by while turning off all the lights, and live in fear of losing a job or higher interest rates.

I’m renting in a nice leafy neighbourhood (hence the raking) in Toronto where many of my neighbours own and pay about twice what I pay for rent, just so they can have the privilege of owning. I’d rather rent and be financially independent.

I describe how I saved and invested for financial independence here… SmarterSquirrel.com, in case it helps anyone.

#51 Rob on 11.28.17 at 7:11 pm

My wife and I what Ustabe suggests 27 years ago.
You can buy in a great medium size city with a small mortgage and have a big life.
Why do mills obsess over TO and Van?

#52 Lucky Dude on 11.28.17 at 7:11 pm

Years ago my gf and I were hot and bothered to buy a house. My parents (bless them) were willing to front the down payment. As we were driving back from the house in question, she looks over at me and said “If we break up can I keep the house and will your parents be OK if I take a while to pay them back?” I looked over at her and said “The only thing I can say is that I’m going to work tomorrow and your $hit better be out of the apartment when I get back”. It was a great day, followed by many many more.

If the gf only wants you for the house, she just wants a house, not a home. And odds are pretty good you’re not in the picture.

#53 SimplyPut7 on 11.28.17 at 7:11 pm

#141 Breaking News on 11.28.17 at 1:10 pm

THE TORONTO REAL ESTATE BOARD v. COMMISSIONER OF COMPETITION
Decision to be released DECEMBER 1st 2017!!!!

——–

Please provide your proof/link to news, couldn’t find anything online about a decision to be release soon.

#54 TurnerNation on 11.28.17 at 7:12 pm

Kill small business! Clearly the message given our selected leaders earlier this year at their meeting of global elites.
(A parasitic class bent on taking 100% of our meger incomes via taxation, interest and oligopical commerce.)

1. They killed iconic Yonge Street busineses using taxes (silent weapon):

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/08/03/500-per-cent-property-tax-increase-will-change-the-face-of-yonge-st-keenan.html

2. Queen St. is next – already its transfoming into a ‘bane-way’ of big corp. fast food and cell phone outlets.

http://www.blogto.com/city/2017/11/queen-west-property-taxes-toronto/
West Queen West is the latest Toronto neighbourhood under threat thanks to the city’s new property tax assessments

3. Bike lane greenwashing insanity doing its job on King St.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/11/24/transit-pilot-taking-toll-say-king-st-business-owners.html

“The truth is that at this rate our business that has been growing with be out of business within a year,” she said.

#55 Ace Goodheart on 11.28.17 at 7:12 pm

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/11/28/bill-morneau-threatens-legal-action-over-stock-sale-questions.html

This is starting to remind me of VW Dieselgate. It just keeps going, and going, and going.

This guy is clearly toasted like an overdone marshmallow.

Why is it that the children of the wealthy take the longest to realise that the party is over?

He is gone, gone, gone. Full of holes and leaking every time he talks. This is not going to end well if T2 doesn’t step in and do something rather quickly. Backbench anyone?

#56 Lost,.... but not leased on 11.28.17 at 7:14 pm

DELETED

#57 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 7:16 pm

#9 Wait There

““Then email me like a man.”

How do men email? as opposed to women.”

It should be pretty obvious that Garth is comparing men to boys, not men to women. Can’t we say anything anymore without the SJW’s misinterpreting everything and finding micro aggressions where there were none?

Boys grovel and let girls push them into $800,000 purchases they aren’t comfortable with before they are even married. Men know they aren’t comfortable with something and say “no”. Women respect other’s positions and move on if they aren’t happy with them.

Anyway I can see why the girl in this story is pushing for a house. She’s only 3 years from “the wall”. “The wall” being 35 years of age, when every pregnancy magically becomes a “high risk” pregnancy in the eyes of the medical profession. The eggs are past their “best before” date. My wife was 35 when she conceived our son, so she had to go for an ultrasound to check things out. That came back sketchy so we had to go for an amniocentesis. That fortunately came back ok, but we had talked about what we would do prior to her even getting pregnant. Fortunately we never had to make a decision. However I have a friend who did and it was devastating for him.

So agree with Garth. Or at least I think Garth would agree with this. If they really are 32/33, and really want babies, get married and get pregnant, promptly. There will always be houses. You don’t worry about whether they are going to suddenly run out of cars, do you? Nope. When you need a car it seems like they are for sale. Same with houses. Just the price changes. So let’s say the house price goes from $800,000 to $880,000 in the next 3 years, which I think is unlikely but possible. That’s only $27,000 a year. That’s not chump change, indeed that is a sizable chunk of money, but once the baby window closes it’s closed for good.

And yes I am aware that due to the wonders of medical science plenty of women have children after the age of 35. But the road becomes more perilous with every passing year. The risks to the child and the mother increase exponentially. This is why the medical profession gets all bunged up when a woman gets pregnant over 35, they’ve seen it and run the numbers.

#58 Loonie Doctor on 11.28.17 at 7:17 pm

I hope this is a crisis averted by Garth. Seriously Evan, if you are reading this, best to test the waters of your co-habitating and financial compatability before making it a permanent deal like buying a house together or getting married or having children. The only way to do that is live together.

You should rent together in the area you are thinking of. Not only do you learn about your living compatability, but also about how good the area really is and what you like/matters and what does not. Without the high cost of having made a mistake. You can then make a better decision on a purchase.

You don’t need a house to have a kid. Especially when they are really little. It takes time to get pregnant, bake the little sucker, and pop it out. They don’t do much for a couple years and in fact a simpler living environment is easier to keep a kid out of trouble in. Best they pee on the rental carpet or flush your toothbrush down the landlord’s toilette. There is enough lag time that even if having a house is important to you for raising a kid that you can do that when needed rather than in advance.

You ideally want one house and one spouse in your lifetime. Choose wisely.

#59 No Debt on 11.28.17 at 7:20 pm

>> My girlfriend and I have lived at home till now (32 & 33yrs old) and are dying to move out and “get life started”.

Your life started the day you were born. Maybe it’s time you opened your eyes and started living it? Being up to your neck in mortgage debt is not the path to enjoying life. Next to marriage there is nothing that can cramp your style more than being glued to an address.

>> Two months ago we decided the market has seemed to cool and were both ready.

It did? Give it 6 months if you think you’re seeing cool. By all means, into the pool with ya’ if you’re determined to take a financial loss for no good reason.

Take advantage of the fact that you’re young, more or less single, and know you can count on Mom to keep the lights on while you’re out enjoying your life and building a future. We only live once. Get on with it!

#60 Evan Get A Life! on 11.28.17 at 7:20 pm

What’s wrong with renting? I live in a great house, for a fraction of the monthly cost it would be to buy this place. I have a great landlord, no issues, something breaks, someone else pays for it, no property tax, no money put into yet another renovation, lawn mower, leaky roof – nothing. I pay the rent and the landlord does the rest! I have a ton saved, have a great income, great freedom and live life to the fullest. I have an awesome wife, great kids and a crap load of funds in my retirement savings portfolio. 1/4 of my salary into retirment and we are loving it! Why people say renting is bad, is beyond me. Freedom with zero debt, is the life I choose, I just happen to rent my roof. Why someone would ever want to take on more than a half mill in debt as a mortgage is beyond me.

#61 under the radar on 11.28.17 at 7:20 pm

#20
I think your experience is honest and is common for many, while the choir here is somewhat biased believing the real estate apocalypse is around the corner. Who cares if prices fall 10 or 20 %. Lock in your mortgage, work hard to pay it down and go from there.
Renting sucks , pure and simple , especially if you have to keep uprooting kids and planting them in different schools etc.

#62 Sam the Sham on 11.28.17 at 7:21 pm

“…I told her no to the purchase and explained why, today I reverted and said we just need to not keep our eggs in one basket and diversify and go ahead with the purchase. Tomorrow I may revert back with a no…”

Is this guy serious? What a sniveling wimp. Typical Millennial. Be a man. Make a decision and stick with it. My advice is to the woman: Dump this creep and get yourself a real man!

#63 Freehand on 11.28.17 at 7:22 pm

Favourite post so far.

I was in a similar situation but I bought. I was a slave to my house. I had no financial room to manoeuvre. I also spent all my time working on the house, attempting to prevent its value from being destroyed. So, I had no time and no money, and I was a miserable person.

After 5 years, I was fortunate and the market went up. We sold the house, took our equity and invested it in a balanced portfolio. I’m renting and feel much happier now.

The house was a noose around my neck and the floor could have fallen out at any time. I feel so glad that I escaped.

I may buy again when the market looks more favourable, but it looks risky right now.

Figure out what you want, Evan, and make it happen. If you bow to your girlfriend’s wishes against your better judgment, she will lose her respect for you (if she hasn’t already). In addition, she will hold you responsible for whatever decision you make, whether it is to buy or not. So, whatever you do, make sure that it’s something you believe in and stick with it.

You can’t depend on other people to make decisions for you. You need to have the guts to make a stand and live with the consequences. It’s better to find out where the chips fall now, rather than after you have a big, complicated asset and kids in the equation.

#64 Newcomer on 11.28.17 at 7:23 pm

#22 Smart or Stupid on 11.28.17 at 6:31 pm
On Nov 2013 I asked the same question to Garth via email about buying 600k house. HIS reply was it’s not worth it and I should rent.
Now the same house is 1.2M and my down payment is 10% vs 15% in 2006
——
So, 5 years ago you had 90K. Just leaving it invested at 5% for those 5 years, it would have become 115 K. So you saved a grand total of 1K/year out of your salary in that time period. If you can only put aside 1 K a year now, while you are just paying rent, think of how squeezed you would have been paying, not only the more expensive mortgage but also property tax and so on. When you’ve only got $83/month of cushion, it makes sense to focus on earning more or spending less, rather than trying to buy a house.

#65 Jman on 11.28.17 at 7:23 pm

“On Nov 2013 I asked the same question to Garth via email about buying 600k house. HIS reply was it’s not worth it and I should rent.
Now the same house is 1.2M and my down payment is 10% vs 15% in 2006

I am still without house

Now let blog dog decide for u what you should do”

Yep what Garth has been suggesting is trying to time the market. That isn’t a good idea the stock market nor in RE. The key is to not spend outside your limit no matter what. If that means accepting less than your dream home then so be it. You can always move up later. The idea that one needs a dream home just because of a kid is silly. Kid isn’t going to miss what he never had.

I understand the emotions this guy and gal are going through though. Buying a house is emotional. I’m a very rational frugal non-emotional guy and even I found myself panicking on missing out on deals and that perfect house. But you have to maintain calm and realize there is always another house out there. The idea of the perfect house is just a heat of the moment thing. No need to rush because of that. Wait until spring and see what happens. Highly doubt prices are going to rocket from here.

#66 Real Women Like $$ not Houses on 11.28.17 at 7:25 pm

A house with a 600,000 debt load is not what a real lady wants. I want some cash for bling, a nice car, a man that has a few dollars to spend on a nice dinner out, a few bills in his pocket, a nice suit, sometime with me in the tropics. Who wants bricks and mortar when you can have wings (freedom) and bling!

#67 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 7:25 pm

Also another point about the baby window, but Garth delete this one too if you delete the previous one because it won’t make sense on it’s own.

My son was born when I was 37. He’s almost 12 now and I’m 49. I’m still in ok shape, I can keep up with him on the ski hill or throw the ball or such. But by the time he is 18, I’ll be 55. Sure there are a few 55 year olds that can still ski black diamond runs part of the day, but I seriously doubt I’ll be able to keep up with him. He’ll have to ski part of the day by himself while I am in the lounge recovering. So men have a wall too, it just doesn’t look the same.

#68 Houses Who Cares! on 11.28.17 at 7:30 pm

I like a man in a tailored suit, nice shoes and a back pocket full of money. Who want some little 30 year old boy, still living with his Momma. Who needs a man with a house, and nothing but a huge mortagages debt. I prefer a man with a huge wallet.

#69 acdel on 11.28.17 at 7:32 pm

#33 Real Women Like $$ not Houses

Hey at least you are honest about your needs; nothing wrong with that as long as the other is willing to go down that same road. Have fun!

#70 Bob on 11.28.17 at 7:37 pm

Evan,

Run, don’t walk, to the nearest relationship exit.

If not, she will take every dime you worked for and earned in less then 5 years…

…of course, she will still want to be “friends”…

#71 Millenial on 11.28.17 at 7:38 pm

DELETED

#72 Cottingham a bargain on 11.28.17 at 7:38 pm

“Why do you need to purchase right now? You know rates are going up, mortgage regs are about to change, and that all houses are cheaper in January.”
——-

If the above is true can someone explain why prices if condos are skyrocking in the GTA. Please don’t tell me it’s because “ that’s all anyone can afford “ very weak answer.

Am I to believe that they will fall hard come January Along with houses?

#73 gfd on 11.28.17 at 7:38 pm

“Sounds like that’s where the relationship is headed – suggesting poor Evan has a girlfriend problem, not a real estate one.”

I second that opinion.

#74 Renting is Freedom on 11.28.17 at 7:39 pm

Why people keep saying renting sucks, is beyond me. Crappy tenants usually say renting sucks. I am a great tenant and have NEVER had a renting horror story. The place I rent, is a steal! The kids “aren’t shifted around” the wife is happy, we live our life, bank mad stacks and live with an abosolute freedom knowing, we owe no one anything. We are debt free and we are blessed. A house with a huge debt, is like a millstone around your neck.

#75 Dan on 11.28.17 at 7:40 pm

I could not believe what I was reading… a 32 year old acting like a 12 year old… What a mess.

#76 Benedict Spinoza on 11.28.17 at 7:40 pm

Wow – post of the year.

#77 spaceman on 11.28.17 at 7:41 pm

#20 Take the Deal on 11.28.17 at 6:26 pm

Ditto, bought in 2012 when market was in a slump, wife won me over, the numbers were right, the bank was ok with it, and it was close to everything. Now my interest payment is 1/2 what my rent would be for the same place. I could never afford to buy this home now. But don’t blame Garth for a bad decision, its your Decision to make… Only buy for long term, if you can really afford it, you love it, it makes sense… I did even though I thought it was a shitty investment. Turns out I was wrong… still married though, so maybe I did the right thing?

#78 "What, me worry?" on 11.28.17 at 7:41 pm

Realize that at the end of the day, nothing anyone buys, including houses, while they are alive, is going with them when they die.

#79 Bobs ur uncle on 11.28.17 at 7:41 pm

#47 Nonplussed

Not everyone falls apart at 55. Some are active and keep skiing well into their 70s, like these folks:

https://vimeo.com/97771002

#80 Yuus bin Haad on 11.28.17 at 7:41 pm

Poor Evan? The “poor Bill” thread is WAY more entertaining.

#81 The real Kip on 11.28.17 at 7:42 pm

Evan’s. biggest mistake is coming to this pathetic blog for relationship counseling. Buy the house Evan. This blog is full of know-it-all experts praying for a housing collapse. Why? So they can buy real estate. Not happening.

Your timing is pretty good Evan. rates are low, selection good, income is excellent. What’s to wait for? With $350k in savings you guys are in the driver seat.

#82 Doug t on 11.28.17 at 7:44 pm

Today’s blog, especially the last few lines…… Very Shakespearean lol

#83 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.17 at 7:48 pm

wow Evan.
You’ve “become addicted to the blog for two whole weeks……
Wait til the reality of 25 years of mortgage payments hits you after an interest rate hike.
The markets have dropped more than 10% in Toronto since last Spring.
The markets will be dropping more in 2018…..probably more than your 5% “pain threshold”.

Never , ever buy a house with someone your not married to.
Disaster written all over it.
If she leaves you over a lost house sale…..you got away cheap.

#84 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.17 at 7:52 pm

DELETED

#85 J. Canuck on 11.28.17 at 7:53 pm

Going by the comments, looks like Garth has a mainly manly audience. Or at least a male one. Interesting how so many people can make a decision about someone’s significant other based on just a couple of emails.

You don’t know what the situation is: could be Evan has been going on and on about getting a house while his gf wasn’t keen on the idea. In addition, he’s been flopping back and forth on whether he’s in or out. If I had someone doing that to me, I’d get a little annoyed about their indecision.

Maybe Evan’s gf is the engineer and he’s the health inspector.

And regarding women’s supposed focus on money … Look around you at the feebs who have perfectly good women in their corner. Women are more often motivated by relationships and togetherness than by money.

#86 ali on 11.28.17 at 7:54 pm

“Then email me like a man.”

How do men email? as opposed to women.
————————————————
= Man vs. boy ? Wow the easily offended don’t stop.

#87 jim on 11.28.17 at 7:55 pm

#67 Nonplused

“men have a wall too, it just doesn’t look the same.”

Different ‘wall’. The original poster was talking about childbirth and medical conditions that become more common in infants due to conceiving at later ages. There is some evidence that having an older father increases the probability of certain conditions, but the mother’s age is correlated much more strongly.

As an anecdote, I dated a nurse in Seattle who worked on a neonatal ward. She said she would never ever have children after 35, given the problems that she saw at work. She was determined to finish it all off before 30.

We are simply not designed as a species to reproduce at advanced ages, no matter what you hear about ‘modern medicine’. (Can you imagine the biological fitness of a species that lived on average until 40 and had babies at 35?)

Anyhow, you shouldn’t have to imagine yourself as keeping up with your son in all ways. Just because you can’t run a mile like Usain Bolt, it doesn’t mean that you can’t be a great father.

#88 5% correction ? on 11.28.17 at 7:56 pm

He even THOUGHT of that?

I guess times have changed with valuations?

When we bought 20 yrs ago I NEVER saw the house as an investment. The thought of its valuation going up/down never crossed my mind . It was to be our home . We raised our two boys in this beautiful home

#89 For those about to flop... on 11.28.17 at 8:01 pm

A day late and a buck short and all that…

M43BC

“Visualizing Your Country’s Unsustainable Debt per Person

National debt levels can be hard to understand, not to mention boring. For example, Puerto Rico is making headlines because it is $74 billion in debt, but the United States is about to reach $20 trillion, and that doesn’t seem like a big deal. How can this make sense, and who cares about all this stuff anyway? We created a new graph to break it down in layman’s terms.

We used new numbers from the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) about per capita national debt. It’s a straightforward metric. For instance, if Americans wanted to completely eliminate their national debt, they would each owe $61,539. We created a series of donut circles: the larger the circle, the higher the per capita debt ratio. We then color-coded each one to correspond with a sliding scale of severity. Dark red means the country is in serious trouble with over $75K in per capita debt, while blue countries on the outside have less than $10K of debt per capita.

Comparing the debt loads of different countries on a per capita basis makes the most sense for a few different reasons. It’s like comparing apples to apples. That’s why the United States can run a $63 billion deficit for the month of October—which barely makes the news on Reuters—but missing $900 million in debt payments from Venezuela causes that country’s entire economy to tailspin. This makes the comparisons between countries fair.

Japan is at the center of our graph because that country has the highest per capita debt anywhere in the world at $90,345. There isn’t a country on earth where average people make nearly that much money on an annual basis. Ireland takes second place at $62,687 followed by the United States in third with $61,539. That’s almost twice as much as the average American taxpayer who files as a single adult makes in an entire year.

Take a look at one country on the far outside of our graph, China. The Chinese government has managed to create so much economic growth (which may finally be slowing down) while only amassing $7,119 in per capita public debt. Granted, China is the most populated country on the planet. That’s still an amazing accomplishment given how much modernization the country has undergone.

Take a look at a list of the top ten countries with the highest per capita debt in the world. Keep in mind that the average for all countries in the OECD is $50,245. And notice how many countries are in Western Europe.

1. Japan – $90,345

2. Ireland – $62,687

3. United States – $61,539

4. Italy – $59,372

5. Belgium – $59,680

6. Austria – $49,975

7. France – $51,768

8. Greece – $49,630

9. United Kingdom – $52,816

10. Portugal – $44,819

Per capita numbers are always a great way to compare different economies from around the world. It doesn’t matter who you are—if every citizen in a country suddenly became liable for paying an equal share of the national debt, there’d by serious problems. And that’s especially true when an individual’s portion of the national debt amounted to more than an entire year’s salary.”

https://howmuch.net/articles/general-government-gross-debt-per-capita

#90 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.28.17 at 8:07 pm

@#141 Breaking News
THE TORONTO REAL ESTATE BOARD v. COMMISSIONER OF COMPETITION

Decision to be released DECEMBER 1st 2017!!!!
+++++++

Let me guess.
TREB, and CREA and all the other commission based sales associations will appeal it and then spend millions on advertising telling the “gublic” why they “need” realtors to help buy or sell something that sells itself

#91 Slim on 11.28.17 at 8:08 pm

Evan could man up and move to Saskatoon.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/212694/Lowest-vacancy-in-Canada

#92 Doug t on 11.28.17 at 8:12 pm

My wife told me on the weekend “grow a pair” LOL – she likes her men manly she does

She just discovered your void? — Garth

#93 acdel on 11.28.17 at 8:12 pm

#78 “What, me worry?”

Not only that; if one decides to leave property to their children then legal costs sure do add up especially when there are numerous children involved; difference of opinions, ideas, anger, resentment and just pure greed.

Many times it works out well if discussed and agreed before hand; if not, it sure does become a hellish nightmare! Can’t take it with you, the laws are changing continuously to make it as difficult as possible to pass it on.

#94 TurnerNation on 11.28.17 at 8:14 pm

Paging Freedom First to the blog.

Or: “Primarily to provide a first-hand account of what a GIRL can do to healthy brains”.
What I mean is the right girl will be happy to be with you anywhere. Plenty of fish, see?

Those CME Bitcoin futures are Cash Settled so have no effect to Bitcoin pricing. The dog still wags the tail.

#95 Doug t on 11.28.17 at 8:22 pm

She just discovered your void? – Garth

Married 25 years in Sept – I guess I slipped a rung LOL

#96 Cheekmonster on 11.28.17 at 8:27 pm

Two days ago you said “Real estate prices will take several years to melt lower” and now you say “2018 is going to turn out to be one scary year for residential real estate”.

#97 Pre-wrinkly on 11.28.17 at 8:28 pm

Very well said and absolutly sane advise.

BTW can i use your line “She doesn’t want you, Evan. She’s hot for quartz and hardwood.”

On my squeeze of 30 year? She want to move out next year from our 1M brampton SFD to Niagra on the Lakes bunglow for 1.3M. With plenty of quartz and hardwood like you say.

I want no part of it unless it comes with at least 25 acres of Dirt for my Legal Weed plantation (and magic mushrooms).

#98 Chumpy le chump on 11.28.17 at 8:31 pm

Evan
Bail on that woman. She got the house bug, and while you may have dodged a bullet this time, she will be back looking for you to compensate.

I learned this the hard way after 15 years of marriage, soul-crushing debt and sleepless nights due to money woes.

If you do decide to get married, ensure you have a prenuptial agreement- half of marriages end in divorce, and no, you’re not different.

#99 Rexx Rock on 11.28.17 at 8:31 pm

Save another 5 to 10 years and you could rent a beautiful luxury condo in Puerto Vallarta for seven months a year and live in Canada for five months and still have your free terrible healthcare in B.C.Canada’s high housing is like a ball and chain where it is normal for both spouses to work a full time and part time job just to stay afloat.Like in Vancouver,Victoria or GTA. many people are like working zombies.

#100 Game has changed on 11.28.17 at 8:33 pm

House valuations at epic highs and no real growth in incomes/wages and cost of education also off the charts
?

This young generation has little for error .

Evan , when you say ‘renting is out of the question ‘?

Why ? Her idea ? Yours ?

You’re an engineer . Get a pen and paper out and do the math . If that size debt, numbers r cool with you then buy . Why r you asking Garth ?

#101 Newcomer on 11.28.17 at 8:34 pm

#67 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 7:25 pm
………..
Sure there are a few 55 year olds that can still ski black diamond runs part of the day, but I seriously doubt I’ll be able to keep up with him.
———-

I’m 55. I recently switched to snowboarding because double black diamond runs just got too easy on skis. There wouldn’t be one in a hundred 18-year-olds who could have kept up with me on skis. Why? They don’t have the practice. And they don’t have the stamina. Five runs and they are ready for pizza and/or beer. A guy on the ski lift told me the secret ten years ago: if you want to keep going, just don’t stop.

#102 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 8:40 pm

#79 Bobs ur uncle

Ya, I understand your point, but I can already feel myself falling apart. I’m talking averages. I don’t think I’ll turn out to be one of those 70 year olds. That doesn’t mean nobody will.

#103 Ana on 11.28.17 at 8:42 pm

#67 nonplused
I was right with you until you started talking about age 35 as the high risk cut off for pregnancy. As a health professional who delivers babies I can tell you that that is old misinformation. We now consider over 40 years of age the high risk cut off – not 35. Though clearly most people don’t know this as I constantly hear 35 from non- health professionals.

#104 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 8:45 pm

#87 jim

Well thanks for that Jim. I hope I will still be a good father at 55. Unfortunately I think I will be prescribed to driving the boat and not showing him how to water ski. Ya some people can still do it well past 55, and maybe if I get on the tread mill me too, but stuff happens. My knees are already weak it’s genetic. My dad’s are titanium.

#105 crdt on 11.28.17 at 8:50 pm

#36 tccontrarian

Home is where you make it…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvUS2F-IPjI

#106 Kilt on 11.28.17 at 8:53 pm

Wow. Why so many deletes. Doesn’t seem like the topic to create
“Abusive, obscene or disrespectful ” behavior.
I’d be curious to know if he is in a area where the Market has cooled (Calgary). And why the hell do you live at home at 32 years old.
And 160K a year and living at home until your 32. You should have more money than that saved.

Kilt.

#107 D Apostrophe on 11.28.17 at 8:54 pm

There are MANY Evan and his GF’s in Toronto.. so impatient.. so reliant on the affirmation of buying a home … sadly.. immature is the only way to describe this.. ALSO.. 5 percent correction? sir, you must be high.

#108 For those about to flop... on 11.28.17 at 9:00 pm

Recent Sale Report.

This one is a little complicated so I will try not to confuse anyone including myself.

2336 Woodland Dr ,Vancouver just sold.

Originally asking 1.69 then 1.59

Sold 1.59

Tax assessment 1.74

Here’s the thing with this one , if my information is correct it is also CONFIRMED PINK SNOW as well.

Apparently the previous sale was in February 2016 and they paid 1.55 and carried it for the best part of two years with a 2.5% difference between the 2016 sale and the 2017 sale.

If we take the remaining 2.5% from the paid expenses and then add in another 2.5% for lost opportunities just to make it a nice round 5% then they took roughly an 80k loss.

Clear as mud…

M43BC

#109 Spacc on 11.28.17 at 9:04 pm

#44 dienekes on 11.28.17 at 7:04 pm
To Evan:
Dump that fool, go to Croatia, get a real girl.
Beautiful, mature, no stress women there.
Canadian women suck.
Sorry girls, it’s true.

========================

Unless you’re living in an oil town, it’s best for men to save their time and money and ignore these “x country is better than y country for women” bro-necdotes. I don’t disagree that a ton of Canadian women suck or aren’t exactly charming, but I’d bet as much or more Croatian ones do as well.

You can bring any small town European hick here and guess what, she’ll be Canadian as well. I bet you once they arrive in Toronto or Vancouver, even if they lived in housing almost fit for animals, they’ll want a fully furnished, mortgaged or paid house before you can even put a ring on it. I know because I’ve seen it more times than I care to remember.

#110 PGer on 11.28.17 at 9:06 pm

Holy [email protected] Who stays with their parents that long? I left the house at 18, went to university, got two degrees, got a full-time girlfriend who became my wife, got a permanent job (from the latter degree), moved to another city (far away from our families), and bought a modest house with a modest mortgage, all by age 30.

I just don’t understand why many young people aren’t just chomping at the bit to get out there and on with their own lives.

And Evan, if you and your significant are not on the same page financially prior to marriage, run the other way (and fast).

#111 dw on 11.28.17 at 9:07 pm

THIS. IS. AMAZING.

#112 Robert on 11.28.17 at 9:07 pm

Go for the bricks and mortar. The chance of T2 and Morny popping the realty gas bag is next to nil. Even if rates go up marginall, there’s plenty of foreign capital pouring in, more coming and absolutely no intention of stopping it. Don’t sit on the sidelines otherwise you’ll be renting from an “investor” and paying his mortgage off.

#113 common sense on 11.28.17 at 9:09 pm

#94 TurnerNation

Exactly, where is Freedom on a post like this?

Invest $600K with a “girl friend?” on an inflexible asset? I wouldn’t invest over $100 with a likely temporary situtation…

#114 When the Whip Comes Down on 11.28.17 at 9:15 pm

We truly do live in different times. 32 and 33 bf and gf both having lived at home until now. Good lord. Making a fair buck to boot in respectable careers – which would explain the significant savings at a youngish age compared to the average bear. I am literally gobsmacked. But this would certainly explain their limited ability to make their own decisions. What a pair. I wonder if they still borrow their mom and dads cars. Sad. They both need to grow up fast. Sound like kids to me. me.

#115 bubu on 11.28.17 at 9:18 pm

buy… at 32 and 4 times your income it is ok…. your income will go up in the next 10-15 years and you will pay the mortgage before you are 48-50 years old which is ok… if you are in trouble at this income and down payment, many more will be worse if something happens so the government will change the rules to save the others…

#116 Bytor the Snow Dog on 11.28.17 at 9:19 pm

This blog has been about the three r’s all along. Real Estate, Riches, and Relationships.

Who knew?

#117 Sultan of Sudbury on 11.28.17 at 9:20 pm

Evan, my millennial girlfriend and I have had the same discussions but I think it comes down to education nd solutioning.

Present the bigger personal finance picture to her, you are trying to build stability into your relationship and you won’t compromise to keep up appearances. Honestly, try renting if you feel a need to spread wings. It isn’t bad and you can get a really great place with your incomes and still save a whack of dough.

#118 TnT on 11.28.17 at 9:22 pm

Evan

You are suffering from FOMO – Fear of Missing Out

This is a private sale therefore there are no other buyers lining up. Seller can suck it and take take 20% less come January 1st.

If your lady friend and you can’t wait another month to focus on how this housing market will turn out then you guys are idiots and deserve the Greater Fool award

Believe me when I tell you this: There is ALWAYS another house for sale. PERIOD

#119 acdel on 11.28.17 at 9:27 pm

#110 PGer

I hope every confused 22 to 37 yr old or others, reads your post and takes it to heart; good on you!

#120 Loonie Doctor on 11.28.17 at 9:32 pm

For those saying variations of just “do it, you can’t time the housing market.”

You are right. You can’t say exactly what will happen when and people can drive bubbles way longer than anyone would expect. You do need to weigh probability and risk though. We’ve seen both those aspects on this blog for years.

I think the MAJOR underlying concern here is not the buying the house aspect. It is the aspect of making major commitments with someone who does not respect the fact you are not comfortable with the financial decision and keeps pushing to get their way despite that. In a relationship you have to be aligned on the big things. If there is a winner and loser on those issues, eventually both parties will be losers and the loss will be bigger. I hope they can talk it out and build a stronger relationship out of this whole drama. If not, then best to minimize the losses.

#121 Danny on 11.28.17 at 9:37 pm

Evan listen carefully.
Garth…your blogs are always well thoughtful.
This one hits close to the heart and stimulates the brain to take over.
Too bad so many people think renting problems are bigger than owning and maintaining a house.
Neighbors in rental can be problematic but also neighbors in homes on the ground…….can be ” something out of hell too.”
Listen to Garth real estate prices are historically unjustifiable and too high. Look at history and learn from Garth’s many blogs….history will repeat…..
May your brain take over…….marriage based on weakness probably will not survive when it comes to finances.
Evan
We all know this is tough for you…but waiting will be rewarding.

#122 fishman on 11.28.17 at 9:40 pm

Every day its no vacancy in the Canadian cities on the news. Lotsa work no place to stay. And its true. Anyways its sure true here in Van town. So the govt. brings in over 1/2 million people a year as immigrants,TFW’s & students with work permits. They mostly come to the cities cause thats where the money & jobs are, but there’s no place to live. This is called sucking & blowing at the same time.

#123 BlorgDorg on 11.28.17 at 9:46 pm

Came to look for the SJW fabricated issue with “like a man”, wasn’t disappointed.

We got the same comment not long ago from one of my in-laws about “getting your life started”. I’ve had 3 careers, travelled to the equator and arctic circle, every province, and 5 continents. I have a wife and 2 kids. Nice-sized balances portfolio. No mortgage.

Pretty sure my life started a long time ago. Incredible.

#124 Renter's Revenge! on 11.28.17 at 9:46 pm

Years ago a friend of mine (also an engineer) was 26 and dating a 31 year old woman. The relationship progressed quite quickly and they became engaged only a few months after they started dating. Just a day or two before the wedding, she surprised him by announcing that she wanted to start having kids right away after getting married. He was shocked her confession, not only because he wasn’t ready to have kids right away, but also because she tried to sneak it in right before they tied the knot instead of discussing it with him ahead of time. So he called the wedding off and everybody was sad for a while.

Moral of the story: people need to be honest with each other if they want their relationships to be successful. Bullying, emotional manipulation and backhanded behaviour are a recipe for disaster.

#125 BlorgDorg on 11.28.17 at 9:49 pm

Missed the most important (and damning) part: I very happily rent.

#126 Renter's Revenge! on 11.28.17 at 9:51 pm

#116 Bytor the Snow Dog on 11.28.17 at 9:19 pm
This blog has been about the three r’s all along. Real Estate, Riches, and Relationships.

Who knew?

========

It used to be about bikes, babes and balanced portfolios.

What happened?

#127 mathman on 11.28.17 at 10:04 pm

Typical negativity around renting posted by some on this blog fuel by the RE industry full of people that failed grade 9 math and use uneducated cliches to bash the alternative to owning.

The reality is renting is a choice, and for those that are moderately numerate it becomes quite clear that from a fiscal and flexibility POV it makes sense. My landlord is a corp, been here the better part of a decade, awesome place and my monthly cost is a fraction of the cost to carry if I were to own (Rent from the Bank)

Like anything in life, don’t just jump into a rental do some homework, do they want long term tenants, is it a corp or individual – ask for a break on the lease by showing references and committing to a long period of time 2 years etc.

To our dear Evan you are trading answering to your parents, to answering to one of our venerable big five banks. Miss a few payments and tell me the house is yours, you don’t own shit my friend. You have title on the property with an 600 pound gorilla sitting on it (the mortgage)

Math

Math

#128 SimVan on 11.28.17 at 10:11 pm

If my husband ever wrote an email like that I would feel terrible that I married a manchild. Sunday was my birthday. My husband bought me a teak tub caddy so I could read in the bath tub ($50) and a foot massager ($200). I returned the foot massager because money in the bank (priceless). This chick wants a $600,000 house for her birthday?

You are going to give her your lifetime if servitude to the bank for her birthday?

That is absurd. Man up Evan. Seriously. This one is in it for the cash. I cannot believe how some men get taken for a ride.

#129 Ace Goodheart on 11.28.17 at 10:11 pm

So dude and his GF want to buy a $950,000 house with $350,000 down and a $600,000 mortgage. They earn $160,000 per year by working full time.

Add in land transfer tax and you are over a mil for that.

I have not seen the house so I can’t comment on whether or not it is worth it. If it is located in Toronto and it is a semi or a row house in a popular neighbourhood that has yearly block parties and cute little street stands where you can borrow books from people you don’t know, it probably is not.

One thing you learn about living in Toronto is how good it feels to get out of Toronto. Hence why we have the Muskoka property.

There is only so much broken, spittle covered stained pavement that a person can stand. The smell of fresh urine on a summer day combined with old booze and a constant waft of marijuana, put together with the usual Toronto transit crazies yelling and trying to get into arguments with random people on the bus, is of course a cultural smorgasborg of wonderfulness and you just want to breath it all in and feel good to be alive. But after a while, you just sorta want something a little different. At least for a while.

So if they are buying in Toronto, I would say a mil all in is too much. I would also seriously question someone wanting to work full time to pay back $600,000.00. That is a f*$k ton of money. You and your GF are going to have no life and no freedom for a very long time. Prisoners in Federal jails will have more life choices than you.

Lastly, well old Toronto houses are money pits. Even new Toronto houses are money pits. We have this wicked climate, where in the summer it rains every other day, is windy, then sunny, then warm, then cold, then really cold, then warm again. The weather in the temperate months will destroy your house. The wood will rot, the siding will fade, the windows will leak. The travesty that is a shingled roof will last 15 years and then have to be replaced for 20K. 15 years later you will have to do it again (don’t ever put shingles on a house, don’t say I didn’t warn you).

Winters are worse. Again, there is a massive amount of precipitation. Rain, snow, hail, sleet, freezing rain, freezing rain mixed with rain, hail, snow, sleet. Weird brown muck that gets on everything. It is damp everywhere for about three months. Your house will never dry. It is warm during the day, then freezing at night. Your concrete will crack and buckle. Your walls will heave and distort. Your basement walls will leak with the constant never ending moisture.

The climate is wonderful if you like nature destroying things. Toronto houses tend to be in one of two conditions: either – in tip top shape, owned by a person who spends most of his/her life repairing and maintaining his/her house, or – a total dilapidated dump, destroyed by the ridiculous climate.

If you want your house to stay nice, you better have a lot of money or be really handy.

I would not be getting a $600,000 mortgage and then trying to pay it back by working.

#130 Al on 11.28.17 at 10:12 pm

Evan,

Just buy the dam house and stop being logical. Your going to kill your relationship. Smarten up.

I am 36, also an engineer, chemical engineer with an MBA. Wife is an accountant.

In 2007, at the peak at that time, we bought a house.

We had 2 kids and then bought a house 2 years ago and kept that first house as a rental. Cash flow positive .

If I listened to my gut I would still be in that house but maybe all alone and 50% less of my assets.

If you love her, suck it up and buy the dam house.

When it comes to your wife you can’t use logic for this stuff man.

You will never get 0 degrees of freedom in your relationship equation until you buy the dam house and make her happy. It’s the secret.

You have great income. Great jobs. and you plan to live there for 10 years.

Stop trying to time the market.

Time in the market is more important than timing the market.

And

The best time to plant a tree was yesterday.

Get the F on it Evan.

Stop emailing crusty old Garthosaurus for advice when you know his answer and just buy the house and make the love of your life the happiest girl ever.

Smarten up man. Your thinking to linearly like a boring old robot engineer.

Remove that algorithm from your brain for now and buy the house.

#131 Tony on 11.28.17 at 10:12 pm

The B20 OSFI rules will hit the high end of the market the most and the extreme low end of the market should take a hit as well (condo townhouses and condo apartments). The new rules should turn Vancouver into a bloodbath and the media can’t downplay it. I see listings or inventory falling not rising for at least the first 6 months of 2018 in the GTA. The Vancouver area will be a different story where listings will swell. A run on the Canadian dollar in 2018 should put upward pressure on interest rates. If endless helicopter money is ever enacted in America Canadian real estate will crumble. Places where income is low and home prices are high will take it on the chin. Sutton, Ontario comes to mind where home prices are extremely high relative to family income which is extremely low.

#132 Spectacle on 11.28.17 at 10:17 pm

#55 Ace Goodheart on 11.28.17 at 7:12 pm
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/11/28/bill-morneau-threatens-legal-action-over-stock-sale-questions.html

This is starting to remind me of VW Dieselgate. …………

Why is it that the children of the wealthy take the longest to realise that the party is over?
……………….. This is not going to end well if T2 doesn’t step in and do something rather quickly. Backbench anyone?

—-Actually——-
The criminal Trudeau, ever complicit in providing smoke screens to his money laundering buddy, sets up a press conference that gets massive “cover-air time, the blabbering apology for all of Canada against LGBTQRST past transgression.

Yup, we’ve been scammed again and again! When will this end?

#133 Jon on 11.28.17 at 10:21 pm

Wow Vancouver considers banning foreign buys ouch. http://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/vancouver-considers-banning-foreign-buyers-amid-perfect-storm-in-housing-market

#134 young & foolish on 11.28.17 at 10:24 pm

I have literally wiped out all of my investment mistakes and all the missed opportunities of the last few years with just a little down payment (faith) in the future!

Thanks Bitcoin !!!!

#135 Vampire studies GMST on 11.28.17 at 10:30 pm

I dont get the joke…..

#136 For those about to flop... on 11.28.17 at 10:44 pm

So I was looking for trouble in all the wrong places and I came across this listing and it got my attention.

I have already showed 6 cases of Pink Snow where people lost money on can’t lose condos at 5511 Hollybridge Way.

This one down the road at 5400 just lowered the price pretty dramatically for a building that isn’t due to be finished until 2020.

It is an assignment sale and so I was curious to see what else was going on in the building and it turns out there are another 6 units doing the same thing.

I don’t see it ending well for a lot of people but they could make out like bandits.

I’ve always maintained that Richmond will be one of the messiest areas in Greater Vancouver during a more substantial correction.

I will try to keep an eye on this project long term if Garth renews my contract for 2021.

Try to document the madness,that’s what I do…

M43BC

903 5400 Hollybridge Way, Richmond

Oct 29:$899,000
Nov 27: $788,000
Change: – 111000.00 -12%

https://www.zolo.ca/richmond-real-estate/5400-hollybridge-way/903

#137 Tony on 11.28.17 at 10:44 pm

Re: #72 Cottingham a bargain on 11.28.17 at 7:38 pm

The B20 OSFI rules will affect the high end and the extreme low end of the real estate market. Vancouver should be roadkill. All you have to do is look at the home prices of cities and the incomes in those said cities as a ratio to figure out what home prices should do. Sutton, Ontario tops the list if I can’t find a higher ratio.

#138 Cristian on 11.28.17 at 10:58 pm

“I think my relationship sort of depends on it!”

Wow, THAT is sad, when one’s relationship depends on a house!
I can’t believe that an adult engineer (or is he the health inspector) with an income of around $80K can live at home with his parents instead of renting something, somewhere, ideally close to work. What generation of impotents is this?
As for needing to own a house to have children… both me and my wife grew up in rentals, we now have three children and still rent. The children couldn’t be happier playing with the neighbours’ kids, many of them also their schoolmates. Everything we need is within walking distance, repairs and maintenance are landlord’s problem, why would I ever buy a wooden box and call it home??? Not to mention that such a purchase would delay my retirement by at least 10 years (I would have to use a big chunk of our investment portfolio for that).
Is this the generation that is supposed to replace us?… Sad. And kinda scary.

#139 LivinLarge on 11.28.17 at 11:02 pm

Bezenge, my sympathies, really. If you have missed paying your minimum payments on an LOC a couple of times then you are seriously screwed.

And…Fearless Leader: “She’s hot for quartz and hardwood.” the best line to describe that disabling disorder that I have heard yet.

#140 Anonymous on 11.28.17 at 11:04 pm

I’m with #20 above, take the house.
Make sure you can make the payments if you renew at a higher rate, and if you can, just get it.
The piece of mind of ownership is worth it.
Like #20 above we were going to buy a few years ago and didn’t due to the advice of some friends and this blog. Had to move twice since with children. My kids still ask why we can’t go back to our previous place. And renting isn’t doing us any good financially, we can’t save anything with rents being so high. Our cost of renting now is just about as much as the cost of ownership if we bought when we thought of it.
Just get the house (if you are sure you can afford it), and take the burden of where you are going to live off you mind.

If you can barely afford to rent you certainly cannot afford to buy. Fake comment. – Garth

#141 My Wife Loves Garth on 11.28.17 at 11:07 pm

Crucial mistake my friend. You didn’t let your girlfriend read Garth’s blog BEFORE you dropped the news. I indoctrinated my now wife with over 6 months of Garth before we sold and now happily rent. Psychology 101

#142 Kat on 11.28.17 at 11:10 pm

Jeepers here I thought my life began when I got my license at 16. Now at 38 with two kids and renting having met my mate while traveling and exploring life it seems it has not actually yet begun yet. Time to push those kids back up and get a divorce as I probably will never own a house and so my life will never begin.

#143 Kumar on 11.28.17 at 11:11 pm

Dont buy the house Evan.
You should move away from wherever you live. 900k for a first home is a bad decision.
Furthermore, you should live with a woman before you buy together or marry her. Lots of relationships fail when couples move in together and realize they annoy the heck out of eachother and disagree on how to run / manage a household

#144 WUL on 11.28.17 at 11:36 pm

#129 – ACE

Nicely written. Funny too.

#145 Long-Time Lurker on 11.28.17 at 11:52 pm

#47 TFSeh on 11.28.17 at 7:09 pm
The goal is to get out of debt by years end. Got 6K in my TFSA, 3K in savings, and a 13K credit card debt that I want to get rid of. With my calculations, I can wipe out the credit card debt by years end if I use the 6K in my TFSA. Do I withdraw it and start the year debt free or leave the TFSA and pay off the debt by March 2018?

>Get rid of the credit card debt. The interest rate’s gotta be bigger than any ROI in your tfsa. Then fill up the tfsa with the debt repayment money.

I was going to make a joke about Evan being Richie Cunningham and Garth as The Fonz but something got me all riled up.

Garth, have a look at the Vancouver Empty Homes Tax policy by the City of Vancouver. It’s draconian. Vancouver might have it’s city hall burned down.

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-enforcement-penalties.aspx

False declarations
False property status declarations will result in fines of up to $10,000 per day of the continuing offense, in addition to payment of the tax.

#146 Fortune500 on 11.28.17 at 11:55 pm

Wow, just wow. Between this kind of millennial housing crap and the likes of what is going on at Wilfred Laurier I seriously fear for our country.

#147 tkid on 11.28.17 at 11:59 pm

Evan,

1. Live together before buying.

2. Get married before buying.

#148 Dee on 11.29.17 at 12:01 am

Garth, it’s better to just tell guys like evan to buy a house. He’s obviously unstable and sensitive. Every little market move will rattle him, and by giving your input, he”ll hold you responsible. Also, never trust someone that uses that many exclamation marks.

Evan, go and buy buddy. You will work forever. It’s your destiny

#149 Nonplused on 11.29.17 at 12:09 am

#101 Newcomer

I think you’re bragging a bit. There are a few people out there who make doubles look easy and some of them are 55 but they are few and far between. Most of us wreck our knees by then. They are the “1%’s” of the skiing world.

I think I might always have the skill set to get down the main line on a double, but not the endurance or the knees.

#150 Nonplused on 11.29.17 at 12:12 am

#103 Ana

I am a non-health professional and either way I don’t think the stats have changed just the terminology. It was only 12 years ago when they sent my wife for the ultrasound. Maybe they wouldn’t do that now, I don’t know, I’m going on my experience. But either way it only buys this couple 5 more years. Tick tock.

#151 Nonplused on 11.29.17 at 12:21 am

Oh and by the way #103 Ana they didn’t send my wife for an ultrasound because they thought she couldn’t have a baby at 35, she was very fit and health. They were worried about down. I don’t think medical technology has changed that.

#152 dee on 11.29.17 at 12:27 am

#66 Real Women Like $$ not Houses on 11.28.17 at 7:25 pm
A house with a 600,000 debt load is not what a real lady wants. I want some cash for bling, a nice car, a man that has a few dollars to spend on a nice dinner out, a few bills in his pocket, a nice suit, sometime with me in the tropics. Who wants bricks and mortar when you can have wings (freedom) and bling!

————————–

okay… I’d sign up for the $800k mortgage over having the above woman.

#153 Nonplused on 11.29.17 at 12:30 am

I swear everything you type online is tracked by your IP address. All this commenting about failing knees and skiing and what comes up on YouTube immediately? An ad for this thing:

https://sno-go.us/

The NSA knows all and sees all. Or Google, whichever.

#154 Greater Fool on 11.29.17 at 12:32 am

So a guy with a family income of 160K and 300K+ savings is having trouble buying a house…. Can only afford a 5% drop (nothing) and if he buys he will commit his retirement on his house. Well, Canada, you screwed it very very hard!

#155 DON on 11.29.17 at 12:36 am

#20 Take the Deal on 11.28.17 at 6:26 pm

Evan, go back and take the deal. You will regret letting this house go IMO. We listened to Garth 8 years ago and are now completely priced out of the market entirely despite now having 400k down. Renting now for 2.5 times what our mortgage would have been 8 years ago, and moving every 2 years as our homes keep getting torn down. Don’t even get me started on the nearly impossible task of finding a new rental home every 2 years. Once you have kids and they are in school the matter is even further complicated.

I love this blog and read it regularly but we have deep regret for not buying when we could have. Yes, the market could flop (and I dearly hope and want to believe it will)…but it also might not. Then what? I am sick of worrying about where I’m going to live. The stress of that has not been worth the wait.
*************

So…why don’t you buy into the market now? If Garth and so many others are so wrong then buy.

Oh yah and 8 years of making rent payments to the bank to cover the interest can be a costly and it take longer than 8 yrs for most to pay off their houses. What happens if a correction comes in teh 9th, 10th or ….th year. Life is a lot longer than 8 yrs.

Go ahead jump in and buy.

#156 DON on 11.29.17 at 12:41 am

My first girlfriend/wife wanted a $50,000 wedding.

My wife just wanted to be together, share our lives and generally have fun.

Choose wisely no matter what side of the fence you are on.

Evan: it may not seem like you have many options, too bad you can’t visit yourself in the future. Time for you to listen to Meatloaf ‘by the dashboard lights’.

#157 Longterm on 11.29.17 at 12:53 am

Forget the house and seize the day. Here’s my experience.

When my wife and I were both 31 in 2002 we’d been renting in Van for 7 years and living the Kits lifestyle in a one bed apartment. It was lots of fun and no obligations and we moved whenever we wanted a change or the neighbours got annoying.

We had the chance to buy a condo in Mt. Pleasant at the absolute limits of our income and savings but we waited outside in the rain and the realtor never showed up for the scheduled viewing.

Then a few weeks later an email from a friend put my wife onto the opportunity to teach overseas and on a whim she met with a recruiter and eight weeks later we’d given up our apartment, sold our crappy possessions at a yard sale and landed at Gatwick with two backpacks for a year in London that turned into ten.

Renting there we met and lived with people from all over the world, had amazing career opportunities and experiences, partied most every weekend in London and travelled to 45 countries. As a side benefit of flat sharing for all of our 30s [four adults in a three bed with one toilet] we saved and invested nearly $300k and at one point took 400 days off to travel. We later set up and sold a business and eventually had a kid. Now we are back in Canada building a house ourselves and setting up a homestead and micro farm.

I can’t imagine what life would have been like if that realtor had shown up in Mount Pleasant back in 2002 and we would have swallowed the homeowner pill.

#158 I thinks I know something on 11.29.17 at 12:59 am

Evan, the thing to realize is that GTA RE has had it’s detractors over the last 9 years. Many of them. These folks warned mightily against overvalued RE and that it would decline in value. They turned out to be dead wrong. I believe that in 10 years time, the average GTA
detached SFH will be worth an average of 2 million. So what if there is a slight correction to that price along the way.

#159 april on 11.29.17 at 1:08 am

Me thinks the few bloggers here who encourage Evan to buy are realtors, or want to keep the party going so their home doesn’t see a decline in value.

#160 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.29.17 at 1:32 am

Dump her right now; for all of the reasons listed above.

#161 Harp sangha on 11.29.17 at 1:43 am

WOW, is all I can say. When did a country as tough as Canada….everyone of you should visit the War Museum in Ottawa…..become so weak. If all of you can only talk about RE, we are all doomed. Sad…

#162 Adrian on 11.29.17 at 1:44 am

#136 For those about to flop… on 11.28.17 at 10:44 pm

Someone needs to do the research! Thank you for your efforts!

#163 Smoking Man on 11.29.17 at 1:48 am

To any freak show that’s into rules. Your stupid.

https://youtu.be/vx2u5uUu3DE

#164 Smartalox on 11.29.17 at 1:50 am

I was reading books to my four year old tonight, and it struck me that NONE of the families in these classic children’s stories (many of which my wife and I recall from our own childhoods) live in million dollar suburban cornflake palaces.

Instead they all seem to live in apartments in the inner cities, and don’t seem to be any worse for it.

#165 Harp sangha on 11.29.17 at 1:50 am

I can’t believe GT still writes! (he must be getting tired of trying to educate) The most insane thing as a CDN living in the USA is……….? The world is not interested in Canada or what it thinks!! T2 and Climate Barbie WTF…

#166 Boots on the Ground in Ptown on 11.29.17 at 1:57 am

TThanks Ace for the tongue in cheek reminder about why we didnt buy here north of Portland in the PNW. Similar climate minus the snow amts. Mouldy rotten houses going for way too much. Peak here was summer ’15 I believe. Local real estate board won’t respond when I ask for current stats which havent been updated on website since 2014.

Fuel for the bears. On the flip side, as with any bubble, one gets tired of being “wrong” and being pitied for “not having started their life” yet. Why is it debt drenched folk are “entitled” to drip pity, even the most well meaning good friends, yet if i respond that i pity them for being chained to a massive mortgage and having a life that requires spouse to work out of town all week, feed the kids rice and hot dogs and commute across the state, just to “have a house”-then I’m the rude one and likely its assumed i’ve made such comment “out of jealousy”. Give your heads a shake people!

we so far have chosen the road less travelled and so far it has made all the difference even tho so far no big portfolios. May I point out for those of us in the trades, the risks of buying at the wrong time is that much higher since when things wind down in our industry, what’re ya gonna do to pay the mortgage? and no way to move for work if needed and quite possible you need to sell when everyone else does and theres no buyers. Huge reason for us to stay renting even if we cant save much in this area of rental insanity.

mhanson.com/11-27-hanson-2008-angelo-mozzilo-said-never-seen-soft-landing/

Above link fuel for the bears.

Thanks Ace for the tongue in cheek reminder about why we didnt buy here north of Portland in the PNW. Similar climate minus the snow amts. Mouldy rotten houses going for way too much. Peak here was summer ’15 I believe. Local real estate board won’t respond when I ask for current stats which havent been updated on website since 2014.

On the flip side, as with any bubble, one gets tired of being “wrong” and being pitied for “not having started their life” yet. Why is it that debt drenched folk are “entitled” to drip pity, even the most well meaning good friends, yet if i respond that i pity them for being chained to a massive mortgage and having a life that requires spouse to work out of town all week, feed the kids rice and hot dogs and commute across the state, just to “have a house”-then I’m the rude one and likely its assumed i’ve made such comment “out of jealousy”. Give your heads a shake people!

I am a gal btw and a “no” girl much to husbands sometimes chagrin but he appreciates it i know, deep down. Much more value a father who has some time for the kids/family and can put decent food on the table other than rice n dogs, WAY more than some house that must then be filled with furniture and all the fixings to keep up with the joneses, never mind the upkeep costs. Yeah i get tired of wall heaters and squeaky floors but theres 80 acres out back for the 3 littles to explore in between raindrops.

Side note those 80 acres are proving to be a hangup for landlord. Good ole land use planning devils SJW in the municipality have really gotten their fingers in everyones back pocket. This place is zoned ag/forest so even tho all the lots within 80 acre tract (all 5 acre parcels) were “grandfathered” in by his dad in the 70’s: if he sells just one, it’ll trigger a “back taxes” bill to the tune of 300k plus, and apply to all the lots in the 80 acre tract. So he’s likely bringing in 2 or 3 new trailers to rent out instead. Our peace and quiet will be a tad less private in the next year or so. Sad to say but in US its all about the owners vs the non owners. Esp with specs being 30% of the market in 06 and similar stats now. Read mark hanson.

we so far have chosen the road less travelled and so far it has made all the difference even tho so far no big portfolios. May I point out for those of us in the trades, the risks of buying at the wrong time is that much higher since when things wind down in our industry, what’re ya gonna do to pay the mortgage? and no way to move for work if needed and quite possible you need to sell when everyone else does and theres no buyers. Huge reason for us to stay renting even if we cant save much in this area of rental insanity.

mhanson.com/11-27-hanson-2008-angelo-mozzilo-said-never-seen-soft-landing/

#167 Boots on the Ground in Ptown on 11.29.17 at 1:59 am

Stupid phone, too attached to my clicky keyboard so must suffer technical glitches here n there due its low IQ. Sorry all

F34Wa

#168 Smartalox on 11.29.17 at 2:02 am

@flopper:

I really appreciate your pink snow posts, but I have a request. Often when I read your pink posts, I quickly calculate the difference between the sale price and the tax assessments, but because the numbers are presented as millions, to two decimal places, I often make the mistake of thinking ‘the difference is only $15,000 below assessment when in reality, the sales are more like $150,000!

Your efforts to demonstrate that house values are already far lower than people think, and that markets are falling faster than assessments, raising risks for speculators are fantastic. Don’t ‘sell’ yourself short.

Cheers,

#169 213 fool on 11.29.17 at 2:32 am

The answer is vanlife. You’re welcome.

#170 Mobile on 11.29.17 at 2:33 am

#144 WUL on 11.28.17 at 11:36 pm
#129 – ACE

Nicely written. Funny too.

I second that, THE comment of the day. Our reaction to that mess of a city was to get the hell out of there as soon as we could.

Now we are enjoying a mid-sized Ontario city living with a CDN1,100/m mortgage allowing us to live in a gorgeous detached home in the very best hood of the city. The incredible thing is that renting something similar would be more like 3,000. And even the weather is so much better!

Oh, and in case you will live that long, this is what is in the store for GTA in 2066 – 13M people! Yikes.
https://torontolife.com/city/torontos-population-will-change-next-50-years/

I read somewhere recently that 20mins cities increase one’s happiness dramatically; well here we are more like within 15mins max of everything and often it is not necessary to go with a car; bikes or the old fashioned walking will do just great. Makes life quite a bit easier with four kids and all their hobbies.

#171 GTM on 11.29.17 at 2:48 am

What a braindead classic example this is! This dude skipped probably the most exciting part of life by hiding in the basement and saving money while going on vacations (if) in off-season, along with a bus full of retired people. (I know it from my sis, she still lives with mom in her 30’s).
I doubt he will ever understand the term “email like a man”, but congratulations, this is the life and woman he actually deserves. Sorry.
Evan, it’s like, you know what I mean, like, like cool.

#172 Dolce Vita on 11.29.17 at 4:05 am

#131 Tony

Other way around, B20 meant to take out marginal buyers, people that can barely afford a mortgage, per BoC (12% fewer buyers, high ratio).

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/fsr-november2017.pdf

Having said that, eventually high end will take an even greater hit since they depend on trading up by home buyers…foundation is low end home sales…fewer sales there, fewer trading up.

#173 Howard on 11.29.17 at 4:23 am

We want a house to call home and we both hate the idea of renting where we cannot call it home and can never do what we want as it belongs to someone else. It doesn’t match us well. If we buy this home then we want to plop down for the next ten years and call it our own at least.

——————————————

I may be a bit slow, but are you saying you want a home to call your own?

#174 Howard on 11.29.17 at 4:36 am

For those who haven’t been following, our PM just accused the Conservative of Islamophobia because he believes ISIS fighters should be in jail.

Thank you, Canadian women, for electing this excrement-for-brains.

#175 Howard on 11.29.17 at 4:37 am

#146 Howard on 11.29.17 at 4:36 am

For those who haven’t been following, our PM just accused the Conservative* of Islamophobia because he believes ISIS fighters should be in jail.

Thank you, Canadian women, for electing this excrement-for-brains.

———————–

*Conservative leader…

#176 Rob JM on 11.29.17 at 5:14 am

Are you kidding me?
You want to have kids, while thinking you should trade in your massive 350K of financial security for a 600K debt noose round your neck. Do you understand that both of you will need to work to stay afloat, meaning your wont even see that kid of yours let alone raise it properly. That’s a virtual guarantee for a divorce right there. The reality is your woman cant have everything because life isn’t meant to be easy. If she can’t cope with that reality she won’t cope with debt slavery either.

#177 Todd on 11.29.17 at 6:23 am

Anyone else hate the new Google Finance? Terrible.

#178 geogar on 11.29.17 at 6:23 am

“She’s hot for quartz and hardwood”. Not to mention kimberlite..!

#179 Dharma Bum on 11.29.17 at 6:32 am

#38 Evan Grow Up!

“My life began in my twenties when I moved out and married the women of my dreams.”
——————————————————————–
Wow. Even polygamists come here to learn from Garth.

Do you rent in Utah?

#180 Big Daddy on 11.29.17 at 7:14 am

The most extremes of denial are being cross checked as City of Vancouver finally decides to come clean and decides to announce that foreign buyers influence is so destructive that they need to ban the practice. Politically correct is the order of things in Vancouver but no one in their right minds can continue to live under the delusion that foreign buyers from China have killed the housing market for local residents.

#181 DogWalker on 11.29.17 at 7:35 am

Advice from an old guy. Never think of home ownership as an investment, or buy because you expect to earn a great return. I first bought in 1980 when mortgage rates were in the double digit range. Stayed four years and sold for about the same price. Net loss after maintenance costs, etc. Out of the market till 1990. Bought again after a bit of a run-up in prices. Still double digit rates. Sold 11 years later for about the same price as paid. Net loss after maintenance, etc. Bought a new build in 2001. Still there. If selling now, after the recent run-up in prices, less expenses, the return would roughly equal the rate of inflation. Okay, but not great. A house is a place to live, not a path to riches.

#182 Wrk.dover on 11.29.17 at 7:36 am

Yesterday evening, Garth pretty much laid out the script for life as it is known. Step two is to have kids, so you can give up on your dreams/sacrifice all so that you may hopefully live vicariously through them while they be what you are not. Drive them to every activity known in case they are a star yet to be.

The children will rinse and repeat that routine.

I am so glad that I met and married a non material girl 38 years ago that had enough children in her career at school three minutes away, that we didn’t ‘need ‘ any of our own. Nor did I need to make money for the sake of making money to buy more of anything, and we have been able to do every thing we want to do each and every blessed day, living on a self sustaining rural self built estate equipped with self engineered and self built everything. Pioneers in a modern age.

No debt means no obligations….

Money made off of the farm gets spent off of the farm, Evan. All of it.

#183 Victor V on 11.29.17 at 7:39 am

Vancouver considers banning foreign buyers amid ‘perfect storm’ in housing market

http://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/vancouver-considers-banning-foreign-buyers-amid-perfect-storm-in-housing-market

VANCOUVER — The city of Vancouver is considering restricting ownership of housing to local residents, among other strategies, as it looks to cool a hot real estate market that it says is fuelled by foreign and local speculation.

A foreign buyer ban is just one of numerous supply and demand measures outlined in Vancouver’s new 10-year housing strategy, which was announced late last week and presented to city council on Tuesday. Council will vote on it on Wednesday.

#184 Wrk.dover on 11.29.17 at 7:44 am

#21 Jimmy on 11.28.17 at 6:27 pm
Dump her immediately.

——————————–

Jimmy doesn’t use a lot of words, but he is quickly understood. That is why will always be first!

#185 Costco Nation on 11.29.17 at 7:54 am

DELETED (but borderline)

#186 Mehdi on 11.29.17 at 7:57 am

Not sure the relationship will last after this blog entry…

#187 Dups on 11.29.17 at 8:11 am

Bill is loosing his beans. He should resign immediately. What a prick…

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/morneau-threatens-to-sue-critics-over-attacks-on-his-personal-financial-decisions/article37112392/

#188 SilverSon on 11.29.17 at 8:22 am

#81 The real Kip on 11.28.17 at 7:42 pm

What a load of rubbish. Clearly written by someone who stands to lose a lot should RE prices go down. You know who accuses others of “praying for a drop”? Speculators, that’s who. Financially secure people (whether homeowners or not) would never write such drivel. This comment is simply trying to cultivate GreaterFools.

#189 SilverSon on 11.29.17 at 8:28 am

#96 Cheekmonster on 11.28.17 at 8:27 pm

“Two days ago you said “Real estate prices will take several years to melt lower” and now you say “2018 is going to turn out to be one scary year for residential real estate”.

Yes he said that. So what? Those are not conflicting statements. What makes you think the rate of melting will be spread evenly across the years it spans?

#190 NorthYorker on 11.29.17 at 8:38 am

It’s pretty sad when people assume the GF is wrong and to dump her. It’s probably natural to be angry when you thought you were BOTH in this together and since they were probably looking for a while.

I do agree that ANY couple should move out and live together before buying a home and marrying. It just makes common sense.

Their down payment is good but there is no reason to buy a $900k+ home.

They need a financial plan to have whatever home they ultimately buy, paid off ASAP while diversifying their savings. I would suggest buying a home and ensuring all of your costs equate to 50% of your net income. The rest of your savings can be used for investing or paying down the home.

Finally, never count on your home for retirement. It is a luxury, a cost and something to enjoy. So if you cannot handle a 5% drop this is NOT for you.

We were in the same boat, except I moved out at 25 and owned, then sold, then rented while my husband basically stayed at home. We had $390k downpayment and some extra money saved for renos. We will be mortgage free before our 5 year term renewal so we never have to renew. Our monthly expenditures are less than 50% of our take home pay and we purchased a condo townhouse too in Toronto 2.5 years ago.

I say move out together, rent for a year and reevaluate buying. Renting is NOT throwing money away. I enjoyed my time renting, but I enjoy owning more. But there is no regret and it’s really important.

#191 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.29.17 at 8:46 am

@#133 jon
“Wow Vancouver considers banning foreign buys ouch.”

+++++
Way too little…. way too late.

Soaring Prices = soaring rents
Soaring rents = Airbnb
Airbnb = Plummeting rental market
Zero vacantcy = Outraged voters

A Knee Jerk reaction by Mayor Gregor the Dim( emphasis on Jerk) who is tanking in the polls in an election year.
Expect more of the same as spineless “Vision” politically correct beaurocrats look for soft ( non voter) targets leading up to their election night debacle in Oct 2018

#192 Dups on 11.29.17 at 8:47 am

Google finance went back to the stone age. Shame!

Time to switch to the better: https://finance.yahoo.com/

#193 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.29.17 at 8:53 am

@#175 Howard

Not to worry Howard.
I’m sure the former Drama Teacher aka Prime Minister Excrement for Brains is a one term wonder.
He’s been PM for two years and squandered it.
Now, when the Libs are past the half way point in their mandate he’s still grandstanding in Parliament.
Wait for the Canuck economy to start wallowing in the Housing meltdown while unemployment rises, defaults explode and people want decisions…..
While NAFTA drags on over such Canadian “Key Issues” as gender equality and gay rights……in a trade agreement.

Trudeaus next two years wont be the honeymoon like the first two.

Notice Morneau was a little testy at the Parliament press scrum yesterday?
Pressure is building.

#194 SilverSon on 11.29.17 at 8:54 am

#115 bubu on 11.28.17 at 9:18 pm

“your income will go up in the next 10-15 years”

Don’t count on that unless you are government employed or a complete fool. Using that to justify a purchase you can’t afford is basically spending money you don’t have. And if you spend now what what you think you’ll earn in 15 years, what money will you have left to spend 15 years from now? Nothing, because you already spent it. And if your actual income in 15 years is 25% less than what you expected it to be, then what? There’s so much reckless and terrible advice here some days.

#195 Jack on 11.29.17 at 9:02 am

Evan, present your gf with a spreadsheet of your net worth 5 years from now if you buy and the market drops 30% (in my opinion it will drop a lot more) vs renting and investing your down payment (and investing the difference on rent). I did this with my gf back in February when she said she’d never rent. While she balked at the beginning, she came around. I sold my house and she sold her house in April and now we’re renting. Guess what? Our net worth is 300k liquid instead of being underwater 50k on a mortgage … and that’s in only 6 months! I expect the difference to be another 150k by Easter.

Oh, and I just got a job offer in London so if i owned i would be screwed. I just have to cover off 5 months lease at 2k a month – that’s only 10k vs about 75k in selling costs plus 50k for being underwater if i had bought.

Also you should stress the stability you would have renting vs buying. If one of you lose your job renting is much cheaper and you won’t lose your house – plus you have a 350k buffer – that’s 14 years worth of rent at 2k/month!

#196 NorthYorker on 11.29.17 at 9:07 am

Oh and I do believe that living at home for far too long does make you complacent and a bit too “relying on mommy and daddy” but I have seen many who left early and are also in financial messes or just haven’t grown up to make good choices either.

It’s all about the person. You CAN stay at home, add value to your family and still learn about finance, investing and work on having a career.

I still think it’s good for someone to rent before owning and to live with someone else as well, but i don’t see what the rush is to get out at 18 or 20 etc. It can either work out for you or destroy you.

You leave when you are ready and set up to succeed as best as possible. If you are babied then you will never succeed regardless of how early you leave because some people just don’t even learn or grow.

#197 Rational Optimist on 11.29.17 at 9:11 am

57 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 7:16 pm

The increased risks in pregnancies over the age of 35 are overblown. They’re elevated, but are not what most people would consider significant. They do exist, and should not be ignored, but they’re not a reason for fear. You’re right that this couple should be aware of them.

I think a more practical concern as time passes is infertility. You advise them to “get married and get pregnant, promptly.” I think that’s good advice. It seems to be what they want, too- he capitalized “soon” when talking about starting a family, after all.

It might not be so prompt, though.

A woman’s likelihood of infertility at age 30-34 is about triple what it is when she’s 20-24. I don’t want to be misleading with statistics, so it’s worth noting that it’s still not a screaming chance, less than one in ten. But it’s elevated.

A woman’s likelihood of getting pregnant in any given period while “trying” are significantly less in her thirties than her twenties. It might not happen “SOON.” So get on it.

I have seen no research as to the likelihood of conceiving a child in a rented house versus an owned one.

#198 SilverSon on 11.29.17 at 9:27 am

#127 mathman on 11.28.17 at 10:04 pm

“… my monthly cost [rent] is a fraction of the cost to carry if I were to own (Rent from the Bank)”

Well put! I have always said that if you bought a place to live using borrowed money, you’re renting money for the roof over your head instead of renting the roof directly. So renting a place to live (as opposed to owning with a mortgage) is cutting out the middle man.

Regardless of how you put it, if people would recognize and acknowledge that owning RE with a mortgage is essentially renting from the bank, then they’d realize the bank is an abusive landlord. But the banks know that the vast majority of people are fools so they will continue to collect rent and enjoy perpetual income with zero risk of what happens with the dwelling, property tax increases, maintenance, etc.

#199 Headhunter on 11.29.17 at 9:39 am

great post and comments. What the hell has this country come too? Guy living at home til 32? Missed one of the best part of his life.

True story, very good amigo of mine 2nd son has very good gig at HONDA in Alliston. Pulling over 80K with O.T. Cant afford to buy jack shit in Simcoe county.. now at 26 he’s back in Mom/Dad basement saving every nickel and re-using tea bags to get in the market.

They are mad as hell at me cause I told the kid take the money you have saved and go see the world… responsibility can wait..

#200 flipper on 11.29.17 at 9:39 am

What is with our risk adverse mills, and for that matter Canadians?

I’ve lost 10s of thousands in bad investments, business deals, etc. Fortunately, I have also made back more than that. If I didn’t have a high tolerance for variance, I wouldn’t be in the financial position I am in now.

5% decline on 800K, is 40K, so nothing life altering, but grow a pair and expect that sometimes you need to lose in order to win in the grand scheme of things.

If you are going to invest in real estate, expect the occasional pull back, which could be as much as 50%. It isn’t common that house prices drop below cost, but it does happen from time to time especially in non-marketable areas. For example, mining towns where the mine runs dry.

Housing demand follows employment as well. People move to where the jobs are. As long as there is demand for jobs in an area, there will also be housing demand.

If buying a house, make sure you plan on living there at least 7 years is generally a good rule of thumb. Not sure that is the case, buying is not a good idea.

If you have no tolerance for risk, then housing isn’t for you. It is probably the riskiest investment of your life. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Many people are as much as 20X leveraged on houses a 5% decline in price will initiate a margin call.

#201 good2all on 11.29.17 at 9:41 am

Nobody knows for sure which direction the market is going next year. Poor Evan, you should buy this property, if you like it and can afford it. This is not an investment, this is your life, this is your home! Money should be out of the picture of big decision like this in your life.

good luck.

#202 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 9:44 am

Evan,

You need to make a couple decisions:

1. What is more important, living in the big city with high incomes and career options, or raising a family?

2. If the later, do you need to raise your family in a SFD, or would a basement or apt suffice.

I’ll even answer them for you:

If careers and metro living is most important, then don’t have kids and stay in the basement.

If raising a family, then GTFO of the GTA, you don’t have the money or the time to make it happen properly. Having kids is great, but not when you’re broke, old, and stressed to the max trying to make ends meet.

Don’t screw this up. 160K is not enough. Once she has a couple of kids, she won’t be so hot to go back to work right away – bet on it.

That 350K you’ve saved will buy a nice place in a smaller town CASH – NO MORTGAGE, and there is no reason your family income couldn’t eventually be 100K+ in a smaller city, which would actually result in a drastic lifestyle INCREASE compared to what you have now, even with the big pay cut.

Seriously, you could be committing financial suicide. The stress and anxiety of it all could cause your common law GF to bail. The house could be worth less when you guys split – leaving you with a giant debt, 50%+ of whatever you’ve got left going to the GF, 20 years of child support, and probably some kind of multi-decade spousal support as well.

Frankly, if your GF is in a rush to get pregnant, flustered, and under pressure – you are a fool to oblige her. If she’s not in it for the long haul – you are toast Evan… TOASTED.

Think long and hard about this, ensure you have the balls to make the tough decisions.

#203 45north on 11.29.17 at 9:59 am

I could tolerate a 5% correction in 2018 for the sake of buying the home we want but not the outcome that you’re predicting. That would devastate her and me.

5% ! you gotta be kidding – this year it’s been 30%

#204 crossbordershopper on 11.29.17 at 10:03 am

$600k mortgage and on the hook every month, for a little cookie once and a while. Honestly, rent, like everything, its cheaper. The number of women who give of their favours for so little now is shocking. I wish they were so liberal in my day. Either way, rent, your wife gets old, and your house gets old, and yes, Evan gets old too. It all goes to crap in the end, so why struggle anyway. Big money saved up, for many many people thats a lot of money.

#205 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 10:21 am

#42 Timberr on 11.28.17 at 7:01 pm
And in other similar news about helos and moisters….

According to John Pasalis:

“TREB is lobbying the government to “allow for the intergenerational use of parents’ RRSP funds by their children” to buy a house”

https://twitter.com/JohnPasalis/status/935629267299422211
_______________________________________

Hope it happens, that would be a sweet way to unload megabucks out of my RRSP without paying taxes on it. Kids will need to buy the house with their own cash of course.

#206 Dmitry on 11.29.17 at 10:26 am

Absolutely no need to own house to start family and have kids.
Our first kid was born when we lived in apartment. Can’t say that we were not comfortable or there was lack of room or any other major problems. There will always be small problems to solve with kids, no matter if you own a house or rent apartment.
Also here is another story about spouse influence on RE decisions.
We lived in townhouse (very good one – end unit with sepatae entrance to basement in great area) with two kids and decided to upgrade to house. We found a great deal, signed agreement and our offer got accepted. So I wanted to keep townhouse and rent it, but my wife was all against it, so we had a discussion and she won. We sold townhouse for little over $400K. That was in 2010.
Now this same townhouse is worth ~$1Mil. My wife regrets her position now.
But that’s OK, we made that decision together. We win together and we lose together so that’s all that counts.

#207 Q2 Class 2-B-C-2 Duplex Drive on 11.29.17 at 10:29 am

Hey Garth –

It appears you are quite fed up with ‘generation horrible’ (William Shatner’s term). 32 and still living at home! Small wonder these kids want safe spaces and cocoons. And I mean ‘kid’! Any man still living with Mummy and Daddy at the age of 32 is a kid. You were quite right to tell him to ‘man up’.

#208 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 10:30 am

#45 Prairieboy43 on 11.28.17 at 7:06 pm
Marry a “NO” Girl (no, I don’t need those shoes, dress, or SUV). When she has to separate her (your), cash for a home. When you need to pry that cash out of her hand with crowbar, for deposit. That is when you have realized, you made the correct choice. The rest of your life will be piece of cake. Listen to the “no”girl, she usually makes sense.
______________________________

Evan,

Along with being a “NO” girl, she also should be a “I make more money than you” – girl, if at all possible.

If she isn’t one of those, she should then be a “I like signing cast-iron prenup agreements” – girl.

Choices like the above may never be appreciated for their true worth – with any luck.

#209 Oakville Rocks! on 11.29.17 at 10:32 am

Buy a clue! Not Evan, you Garth! It seems that Sunday to Friday this blog is 50% nonsense, 25% demagoguery and 25% wisdom. And sadly the comments skew the blog further to the nonsense side. Unless there is more to the e-mail that you have not shared how the hell do you know what this woman’s intentions are or what she wants. I am a decade or so younger than you and even I have learned it is impossible to know what goes on in the mind of a woman and it is never a good thing to question her intentions.. better to ask and discuss.

I moved around, rented, had many gfs and did not consider buying a house or marriage until my 40’s. Rarely did I hear someone say to me, get married, buy a house. But a woman who lives like this is going to hear about it. Don’t presume to understand the pressure she is under unless you ask her.

Evan, Garth is right, move the hell out! Live on your own not with the GF. You clearly cannot afford a house if a 5% correction would cause you hardship.

#195 Rational Optimist is bang on! If your gf would like to have kids, now is the time to think about it. Don’t wait. Get to a fertility clinic and consider having her 32 year old eggs frozen. I would not rush into having a kid unless you are really sure. By having her eggs frozen now she has a better chance of conceiving later if she does have fertility issues.

And GIVE HER A BREAK until you are sure about her intentions.

Stop reading this blog… read Poor Charlie’s Almanack instead. More wisdom, less nonsense.

#210 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 10:44 am

#52 Lucky Dude on 11.28.17 at 7:11 pm
Years ago my gf and I were hot and bothered to buy a house. My parents (bless them) were willing to front the down payment. As we were driving back from the house in question, she looks over at me and said “If we break up can I keep the house and will your parents be OK if I take a while to pay them back?” I looked over at her and said “The only thing I can say is that I’m going to work tomorrow and your $hit better be out of the apartment when I get back”. It was a great day, followed by many many more.

If the gf only wants you for the house, she just wants a house, not a home. And odds are pretty good you’re not in the picture.
___________________________________________

Precisely why my kids won’t be getting a dime from me towards a house if they have a current S.O. They won’t be getting squat from me (on the record) for anything, period. Not until the laws change.

Why?

Because my kids happen to be Male, and we live in Ontario, Canada.

#211 Russell on 11.29.17 at 10:56 am

Hey big G you really bitch slapped Evan there… WOW I liked it… but hey the guy needed it but good… hopefully it begins an unraveling of his relationship to the point that reality slaps him… again this time right off the front porch and back into the basement for another season… huraaah

#212 Stan Brooks on 11.29.17 at 10:57 am

Dow at 24 k.
Loonie in the sink.
Diversifying away from loonie into DOW would have given you 15-20 % YTD in 2017 alone.
A trend that will continue.

In the mean time hundreds of thousands of brainwashed idiots rush to the insanity of GTA.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ultra-low-rental-vacancy-rates-100000832.html

You can’t look for sanity in a mental institution where insanity is the norm.

#213 Peter Pan on 11.29.17 at 11:20 am

If I am Evan I will stay with parent until next spring and start shopping again. What’s the rush? I doubt the market will go up another 5% in 4 months. Just wait and see the impact of the rising rate and stress test.

#214 maxx on 11.29.17 at 11:22 am

#24 mark on 11.28.17 at 6:31 pm

““we’ll never find a house that fits what we need again”

I’ve been there, guy. Believe me, after a while you begin to notice that most amazing house appears on the market at least once a month. Once you’ve got that idea bedded down, you can wait as long as you want.”

Bingo.

#215 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 11:24 am

#67 Nonplused on 11.28.17 at 7:25 pm
Also another point about the baby window, but Garth delete this one too if you delete the previous one because it won’t make sense on it’s own.

My son was born when I was 37. He’s almost 12 now and I’m 49. I’m still in ok shape, I can keep up with him on the ski hill or throw the ball or such. But by the time he is 18, I’ll be 55. Sure there are a few 55 year olds that can still ski black diamond runs part of the day, but I seriously doubt I’ll be able to keep up with him. He’ll have to ski part of the day by himself while I am in the lounge recovering. So men have a wall too, it just doesn’t look the same.
____________________________________________

Yep. Funny how life works. I have a now BIL who got my now SIL pregnant back in the day 4 months into year 1 at University, still teens. Back then we considered it a “life destroying mistake”, but they grew up quick and made it through just fine.

Now his oldest is in University and he hasn’t even hit 40 yet. He’ll be an empty nester at 42 if the kids don’t boomerang back after post secondary.

It was tough starting an unplanned family with no education or prospects, but family and friends helped them thru – now they’re looking fortunate to us older families who “planned” and had kids starting late 20’s.

#216 Newcomer on 11.29.17 at 11:39 am

#149 Nonplused on 11.29.17 at 12:09 am
#101 Newcomer

….There are a few people out there who make doubles look easy ….
—————
Someone watching me probably wouldn’t think I make it look easy. I’m not particularly graceful. I’m just saying it got a bit boring. If you are up at the hill at least twice a week all season, that happens.
….

I think I might always have the skill set to get down the main line on a double, but not the endurance or the knees.
———-
I moved to BC 10 years ago and my knees were just starting to give out. I thought it was a bit unfair, just when I got to a place where I could enjoy the outdoors. Then I lost 30 pounds and took up running (yes, the pounding is good for your knees — it strengthens the supporting ligaments and tendons and builds up new cartilage). Endurance is an easy one to fix. Anyone in normal health, at any age, can be a 1%er in endurance in six months. The body adapts quickly.

#217 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 11:46 am

#101 Newcomer on 11.28.17 at 8:34 pm

Sure there are a few 55 year olds that can still ski black diamond runs part of the day, but I seriously doubt I’ll be able to keep up with him.
———-

I’m 55.

…double black diamond runs just got too easy on skis.

There wouldn’t be one in a hundred 18-year-olds who could have kept up with me on skis…

They don’t have the practice…

And they don’t have the stamina….

_________________________________________

Yep, if there’s one thing those 18 year olds don’t got – it’s stamina.

#218 Cowpoke on 11.29.17 at 11:46 am

Ha ha ha! Email me like a man! Ha ha ha. Reminds me of my ex. ;) I didn’t want to do it either. Now look at me. Broke.

#219 Alex N Calgary on 11.29.17 at 11:50 am

A little harsh? Some people like being around their parents, not a concept I understand but I sort of envy that family concept, maybe my daughter will want to hang out with me when she grows up too.

They managed to save a huge downpayment or for investment, living at home, a pretty nice thing the parents did for them, one way or another. Wait till after B20, its so close, at least the guy was honest in his emails and not arrogant like those vancouver letters you used to publish.

After waiting 6 years in calgary for a correction, i’m wondering if the lower priced houses will ever decrease much more, despite lots of rental inventory, LOTS, jobs aren’t good, its slow melting. Will B20 actually make a difference? or do people still have huge HELOCS’, one crappy job and will hold onto property for 10 more years, its getting hard to say anymore.

I look at Berkshire capital bailing out Home Capital, does this mean Buffet thinks the Gov. will always bail out banks and people here? I think it does.

#220 Todd on 11.29.17 at 11:50 am

So figured out, for some reason google swapped my finance bookmark to the finance search tab.

The original still exists here https://finance.google.ca

For who knows how long though.

#221 Giver- AB on 11.29.17 at 11:52 am

Evan – I think your gf is pissed because you just bailed on what she sees as a commitment to your relationship. How long have you been dating? And you guys still live separately at home? She probably wants some sort of commitment out of you beyond talk, not necessarily granite and hardwood. Advice is the same as above – man up. Decide if you want the relationship to work. If so move in together in a rental somewhere. Moves the relationship forward without a 600k debt. More important to give living together a try than to get this house – there is always another great house.

#222 Howard on 11.29.17 at 11:55 am

Bitcoin hits $11,000.

If I were to buy now, that would mark the top.

But I won’t be buying, so not to worry all you bitcoinnaires. I’m sure BTC will soar to $7 million while I watch.

#223 Blake Clark on 11.29.17 at 12:09 pm

A bit of advice for Evan.

Live with your “girl friend” in a rental for a year and test what the stresses of adult life by yourselves does to your relationship.
All the bills,expenses, and obligations that come with ownership will quickly have you house bound. There are no more drinks at the local bar with friends @ $8 a pint, sleepy weekends are consumed by exterior yard jobs. Things break, wear out, and just get old needing to be repaired at a cost. Be it just parts, or parts and labor. Furnace 2K, A/C 2k, water tank rental $20 a month or 1K to own. Shingles 3K, Windows ???K, Entry doors ???K, it never ends.
Then there will be EVERYTHING not to do with a house that EATS after tax dollars.
Our neighbors bought their house & carry 3 times the mortgage we do. Their house is half the size and a gut job top to bottom. They pay 3 times what we do on a monthly basis.The interior is bunk 1980’s original.They cant afford to renovate. They drive old cars now, have no social life, can’t vacation. But they “OWN” ?!?! They are also married, not just dating.
They are your age and told us this summer they wish they were just renters as they were before. They moved out to Durham and must both commute to their work in the core. 13 hour days. Out by 7 am, home at 8 pm. Stuck there for how long because the “OWN”. GO transit $300 each per month, still need cars once they get home.
What will the cost of rent be for the first year @ 2K per month….24K only and you make 160K as a couple? so 1/6 th of your pre-tax income for living expenses…sounds good to test the waters of 24/7 together life. If it doesn’t work you end the lease and are A-OK!

I’m a few years older than you….I’ve lucked out. I would never buy something at these prices & a low mortgage rate that will only go up.
Possibly your girl just runs you & will dictate what road you will take.
Its almost a great thing to push her to the breaking point and see her reaction. If she freaks and dumps you, then you find another one. But, you didn’t loose your shirt to find out her true feelings & desires.
Where do you draw the line? First the house you must buy, then the new car you must buy, then the other things you must buy…..it will never end!

Sorry to rant, I’ve seen many friends go down this road and it ends badly.
I went down the exact same road at 30 and it ended in a divorce when I would not finance a Hummer SUV…..
I was also not a fan of the $1100 Canada Goose Jacket that must be purchased as an ” Investment” for getting in and out of the car. The $200 jeans also were not cool with me.
But don’t take it from me. Buy the house with your girl “friend”, let Jesus guide you!

#224 CH on 11.29.17 at 12:11 pm

Hey Garth:

its been a long time since you’ve mentioned Vancouver. Id love for you to re-visit the situation here and state your positions on the influence of foreign capital b/c the tides are changing out here again and people are blaming HAM. Which you and I know is completely ridiculous.

#225 Ace Goodheart on 11.29.17 at 12:17 pm

Re: #208 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 10:44 am

“Why?

Because my kids happen to be Male, and we live in Ontario, Canada.”

Ontario Family Litigation simplified for dummies:

“From each according to HIS ability, to each according to HER need”.

It’s modern communism basically.

#226 Stinkweener on 11.29.17 at 12:27 pm

Rental vacancies are at an all time low due to the housing market demands.

What does this tell you Captain bunghole!

Some people MUST live in the GTA for work reasons or family obligations (sick family members)…..so the donuthole brigade suggests they ALL up and move ot of GTA to avoid high hme price and rents.

Ahh…..this ha become the place for meek and risk adverse to flock by the dozens (if that) and get spiritual and financial guidance from the Ora-col himself.

Free dunce caps to all whom hail the Oral-col upon signing up for online finanial advice.

The train to stupidtime station leaves now.

#227 disciplines on 11.29.17 at 12:29 pm

#127 mathman

“… my monthly cost [rent] is a fraction of the cost to carry if I were to own (Rent from the Bank)”

Fraction without numbers is prose not math.

#228 Ian on 11.29.17 at 12:49 pm

Just rent a house in the area you would both like! wtf.

You are still able to have children in a rented property.

#229 Turbo on 11.29.17 at 12:51 pm

If the blog reader who emailed Garth these questions is reading – I have lived through a similar story and am curious about 2 things:

1) A breakdown of the $350K savings between him & the girlfriend;

2) A breakdown of the $160K/yr wages between him & his girlfriend.

#230 Kevin Rock Solid on 11.29.17 at 12:52 pm

Here’s a Vancouver mortgage brokers take on the New Stress Test Rule and what it may do to the Vancouver market? https://youtu.be/t4Ke3DBMEK8

#231 Millenial Entrepreneur on 11.29.17 at 1:15 pm

How are us regular people, who went to school, paid off debt, moved out and started renting ever going to compete with these spoiled, coddled teenagers in their thirties who have had their parents subsidize all living expenses for a decade? They are bidding on the same properties as us, but with triple the down payment thanks to mom and dad.

I regularly hear these smug assholes bragging about their purchases and how everyone renting is a sucker. Or how financially smart their are with their investments. How can you go wrong when you are only paying your car insurance and cell phone bill, with no rent and can always head upstairs to raid the fridge or crash dinner?

This used to be arguably a cultural thing, I understand this, but now it’s spread. The stigma of living with your parents at an advanced age seems to be gone, which is pathetic. These parents should treat them like the kids they are, No chicks/dudes over, no drinking and in bed by 11 on work nights, then independence may seem a little more enticing. Maybe dad should wander down those basement stairs in his tighty whities to grab some tools from time to time, when you’ve got some company.

But in all seriousness, I think long term this coddling will be very damaging to them, since they never have to struggle, never stare down a bank statement running into the hundreds or have to say No to the next Iphone/Ipad/Vacation. They will never have to take the plunge into self employment since their meager salaries are all sucked away by living expenses.

In the long run their lack of ambition will bleed into their careers as well, and they will be outpaced by us regular folk.

Still for the time being, it sucks seeing them with such a head start getting into housing.

#232 Jamie Dimon on 11.29.17 at 1:21 pm

Oh man! This effin blog just keeps getting better and better. Blog dogs we need to start a go fund me page so Gartho never has to pay for a drink again because that was hilarious.

#233 Mattl on 11.29.17 at 1:30 pm

Been reading here that the market in the GTA has pulled back 25-30%. If that is truly the case, then it is probably a good time to buy.

This guy has the income to carry the mortage no problem and pay the home off before he hits 53. His income will only grow, they load up on RRSPs and TFSA over the next 20’years and he is 53 with a million dollar plus house paid for and 1mm in investments.

Who knows if the relationship will work out, no guarantees in life. But if he is truly looking to plant roots and start a family, and he has solid income, then buying over the long term should pay off. Yes rent will be cheaper, and he could move to Mexico, lets be real here. These are two government workers with strong incomes looking at buying into a down market.

I guess I don’t see why its so obvious that buying is a terrible idea. Unless all the talk about a 30% pullback was BS, its probably a decent time to get in. All the guys that thought RE peaked in 2010 will miss the next bottom so take the advice around here with a grain of salt Evan. This is a group that has been waiting for a time to buy for close to a decade.

#234 Brett in Calgary on 11.29.17 at 1:30 pm

#217 Alex
——————————————————
“After waiting 6 years in calgary for a correction, i’m wondering if the lower priced houses will ever decrease much more, despite lots of rental inventory, LOTS, jobs aren’t good, its slow melting. Will B20 actually make a difference? or do people still have huge HELOCS’, one crappy job and will hold onto property for 10 more years, its getting hard to say anymore.”

I agree, but remember Canadians love their houses more than anything (maybe more than their own children) so mortgage payments will go on credit cards, HELOC’s will be milked and bottles returned before any property is sold. The mantra “It’s a good investment” is proving hard to kill.

#235 Need Advice eh on 11.29.17 at 1:51 pm

I am far behind on investing in the sense that I have no investments. I am curious how everyone seems to know how to get their money to work for them and create portfolios that allow them to seemingly be okay if they suddenly didn’t have a job.

I do not make much currently and I pay a mortgage. Realistically I can save around $500 a month, and as it is with everyone im sure, even that much money is a big deal to me. So of course I want to make the best choices with it and get the most for my efforts. The problem is, I don’t know where to start.

Ive seen a lot of suggestions here on the blog and in the comments, but it all seems very confusing. As with any goal, I need a starting point and steps to keep me going.

Any advise is appreciated. Thanks

#236 Mattl on 11.29.17 at 2:00 pm

To add, I don’t think the GF is being unreasonable. She has lived in this guys parents basement suite for years. Saving up for and wanting a home to raise a family in is not selfish. She helped save the 350k, maybe even the majority of it so ya, she is going to be pissed if you dangle a home in front of her and pull the plug on the way to signing papers. Hardly a diva move.

#237 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 2:10 pm

#223 Ace Goodheart on 11.29.17 at 12:17 pm
Re: #208 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 10:44 am

“Why?

Because my kids happen to be Male, and we live in Ontario, Canada.”

Ontario Family Litigation simplified for dummies:

“From each according to HIS ability, to each according to HER need”.

It’s modern communism basically.
_____________________________

Yep it sucks. Even worse, it is so hard for a 20’s/30’s guy to resist a beautiful young Woman in her prime. Witness: Evan.

Oh well, I hope buddy gets a fire lit under his @ss and makes some difficult decisions. Evan, that’s the part of being “a Man” that Garth was talking about. Some day she’ll know you were right, and she’ll respect you for it.

#238 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 2:18 pm

#232 Need Advice eh on 11.29.17 at 1:51 pm
_______________________________________

Not sure how old you are. But I’d stuff that 500.00 in RRSPs, (ask someone else regarding what to buy), and when you get your return, stuff that in too. If you are in your 20’s you could somewhere.

If you are 40+, you’re going to need to generate a huge chunk of cash and invest it – so sell the house and anything else of value. If you don’t want to do this, and have no other way of getting 4-500K+ together then you’ll not be retiring early.

If your income/expenses prevent(ed) you from starting young, you will be trading time for money later on in life.

#239 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 2:24 pm

#226 Turbo on 11.29.17 at 12:51 pm

If the blog reader who emailed Garth these questions is reading – I have lived through a similar story and am curious about 2 things:

1) A breakdown of the $350K savings between him & the girlfriend;

2) A breakdown of the $160K/yr wages between him & his girlfriend.
_____________________

I’m thinking I can guess one aspect of your story.

#240 RL on 11.29.17 at 2:25 pm

Like X 1000! Everyone needs a Garth in their life.

#241 LivinLarge on 11.29.17 at 2:28 pm

“Need Advice”…go to your library and sign out a couple of our Fearless Leader’s many books. If your library have none then get them to bring them in on interlibrary loan.

Read each of the books cover to cover at least twice before starting another one. This double reading dramatically improves your comprehension and retention.

#242 Duke on 11.29.17 at 2:31 pm

#36 tccontrarian on 11.28.17 at 6:49 pm
Evan –
I was a home-owner for 16 years (3 different houses). Our last place we lived in for almost a decade and was…’home’.
A nice place – not perfect, but we were comfortable.
A couple years ago we sold with the intention to rent and use the $$’s to invest (wisely), until the correction occured. A bit early some might say, but I’m an active investor and was seeing some really compelling opportunities unfolding, and didn’t want them to get away from me. They didn’t, and I now have x2 the net-worth I had 2 years ago.
Quite ‘accidently’, we found a house to rent which actually feels like ‘home’ MORE than the one we owned for almost 10 years! I don’t understand how or why, but even though it’s not ‘ours’, we like it better in many ways.
Moral of the story: a rental CAN be as much a ‘home’ as anything else.

So, buy now and forever ‘live for the mortgage’, or rent now (even if you have to move 2 or 3 times), and make a sensible decision to buy – when prices correct/crash.

TCC

================

You made a very smart move. Rent isn’t bad at all, but many people think renters are losers. I think the other way around.

#243 Howard on 11.29.17 at 2:36 pm

#233 Mattl on 11.29.17 at 2:00 pm
To add, I don’t think the GF is being unreasonable. She has lived in this guys parents basement suite for years. Saving up for and wanting a home to raise a family in is not selfish. She helped save the 350k, maybe even the majority of it so ya, she is going to be pissed if you dangle a home in front of her and pull the plug on the way to signing papers. Hardly a diva move.

—————————————

I assumed that each of them is living in his/her own parents’ house, not both of them with his parents.

What happened to pride (not the kind on Church St in Toronto)? I would be embarrassed to be 33 years old still living with my parents. Is he in his childhood room too, surrounded by GI Joe action figures?

#244 Stan Brooks on 11.29.17 at 2:40 pm

#231 Brett in Calgary on 11.29.17 at 1:30 pm
#217 Alex
——————————————————
“After waiting 6 years in calgary for a correction, i’m wondering if the lower priced houses will ever decrease much more, despite lots of rental inventory, LOTS, jobs aren’t good, its slow melting. Will B20 actually make a difference? or do people still have huge HELOCS’, one crappy job and will hold onto property for 10 more years, its getting hard to say anymore.”

I agree, but remember Canadians love their houses more than anything (maybe more than their own children) so mortgage payments will go on credit cards, HELOC’s will be milked and bottles returned before any property is sold. The mantra “It’s a good investment” is proving hard to kill.

————————

It is a cultural/lack of culture thingy.

With a lack of culture the cultivated religion becomes housing. People have to brag about something to feel superior to others.

It is human nature.

#245 X on 11.29.17 at 2:41 pm

It is tough too in the sense that say they did have 1M to buy the place in cash…todays prices still aren’t great value for your $$$.

I am not saying that RE is overvalued or not. (I do believe it is in YYZ, YVR) But for the return on your money if invested, and the cost to buy vs cost to rent comparable…..buying is really only for bragging rights. And if you just put all of your eggs in one basket…..Financial stupidity is not something to be proud of.

I am in the GTA, have money to buy what I want at todays prices and still have a balanced portfolio. The places we are watching are down about 14% since spring…can’t see it going up with the new rules coming…I will gladly save more money on purchase, in a way the more I wait the better it is for the time factor with the investments. I just don’t find todays prices good value for my money.

#246 Renter's Revenge! on 11.29.17 at 2:58 pm

#218 Todd on 11.29.17 at 11:50 am
So figured out, for some reason google swapped my finance bookmark to the finance search tab.

The original still exists here https://finance.google.ca

==================

You, sir, are a hero :)

#247 Sidelined Buyer on 11.29.17 at 3:00 pm

Smartest advice given by Garth in a long time, particularly due to the fact that these folks aren’t even hitched yet.

There is so much to adjust to when living with a partner that have been pointed to above. Division of labour, sharing finances, navigating shared living space, agreeing on long term family and career plans. Any one of those things becomes a dealbreaker and you’ve now got a house and mortgage with somebody you can’t stand, that may not be worth much to either of you if you tried to sell.

Don’t be in such a hurry to “grow up” before you figure out exactly what that phrase means. It’s about maturity, relationships, experiences, and independence. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether you “own” the roof over your head.

#248 Wrk.dover on 11.29.17 at 3:06 pm

Google Finance does not want us to see a dozen stock markets and half a dozen currencies in a split second anymore…..or graph them.

#249 AGuyInVancouver on 11.29.17 at 3:08 pm


Garth, have a look at the Vancouver Empty Homes Tax policy by the City of Vancouver. It’s draconian. Vancouver might have it’s city hall burned down.

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-enforcement-penalties.aspx

False declarations
False property status declarations will result in fines of up to $10,000 per day of the continuing offense, in addition to payment of the tax.
_ _ _
Ask Vancouverites and you’ll find the majority don’t think that tax goes far enough. And that proposed ban on foreign buyers will find a very receptive audience.

#250 Stan Brooks on 11.29.17 at 3:12 pm

Non retirement in this country.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/older-canadians-forgoing-retirement-working-133139935.html

More than 53 per cent of Canadian men aged 65 were working in some form in 2015, including 22.9 per cent who worked full-time throughout the year, compared with 37.8 and 15.5 per cent, respectively, in 1995, the census numbers show.

At the age of 70, nearly three in 10 men did some sort of work in 2015, twice the proportion of 20 years earlier. Full-time work was at 8.8 per cent, up from 5.4 per cent in 1995.

The shift is even more dramatic for women, a reflection of their escalating role in the workforce. Some 38.8 per cent of senior women worked in 2015, twice the proportion of 1995, while the percentage of women working at 70 more than doubled over the same 20-year period.

—————————
Can’t retire. Just wait for 10 more years in which 70 % of the jobs will totally disappear.

G7 Country. Bhahahahaha.

#251 Stan Brooks on 11.29.17 at 3:21 pm

Huge win for our democracy. Way to go!

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/lgbtq2-apology-ndp-presses-trudeau-232500419.html

After LGBTQ2 Apology, NDP Presses Trudeau To Scrap Blood Ban For Gay Men

#252 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 3:22 pm

Hi Evan,

Here are some home ownership stories to scare you off this idea:

1. I have been swarmed and stung 10 years in a row by these damned bees that live in the ground. No way to see them ahead of time while mowing.

2. 4-5 years ago, I got swarmed and stung again, but this time I broke out in hives and my face swelled up like a balloon. Doc says I’m now allergic from all the stings and I have to buy EpiPens.

3. 2 years ago, I sat down for a breather in a lawn chair while working out in the yard. Unfortunately, I sat right on a Yellow Jacket and got stung multiple times. I started to get itchy and felt my lips and ears starting to burn. Then I had to stab myself in the leg with the bloody EpiPen.

4. One evening I heard the Kitties going nutz downstairs. There was a huge bat circling our living room, and our two cats were taking turns launching themselves at it knocking stuff all over the place. I grabbed my old crappy acoustic guitar and swung it like a big tennis racket. Finally, after many misses and mighty clobberings of unintended objects around the room – I finally nailed it. Much damage was caused in the fracas. I took the now dead bat outside and stretched it out on the front walk. It measured 15.25″ wingtip to wingtip. This has happened more than once. If you buy a house – get cats.

5. My In- laws visited our house on a Sunday afternoon. We were away, and they came to feed the cats. There in the living room they encountered a Man passed out on our couch. He had also eaten some cheese out of our refrigerator. This would have been bad if I were home at the time he let himself in.

I have more if you need them.

#253 Don Sandis on 11.29.17 at 3:39 pm

My wife is South Korean and saves alot and I am not as much as a saver as her but we do save about $5,000 a month topping up RRSP’s, RESP’s, TFSA’s, non-registered money.

We have been married 20 years now and have $3,000,000 net worth, $1,000,000 paid off house, $2,000,000 invested in paying yields as follows, 3.0% GIC’s, 4.25% long term provincial bonds, 4.5% preferred shares, 4.5% REIT’s, 3.75% common dividend paying stocks, 6% high yield corporate bonds, 4.75% investment grade corporate bonds, 3.5% 15 year GIA’s.

One thing would point out, interest rates on the longer term especially are falling not rising as many are not following this.

#254 Damifino on 11.29.17 at 3:49 pm

Many gasoline stations in Vancouver have closed in just in the last few months. Take these Chevron stations for example (among many others):

4th Ave at MacDonald
41st Ave at Oak
10th Ave at Broadway

They’re apparently not up for sale, but rather, being turned into ‘community gardens’. Why the sudden concern for neighbourhood aesthetics? What gives?

#255 Damifino on 11.29.17 at 3:57 pm

Oops, make that the Chevron at 10th Avenue at Alma.

#256 Steven Rowlandson on 11.29.17 at 4:00 pm

Evan should not rely on two incomes when it comes to home price affordability calculations. Once the wife starts having babies there goes the second income….
Safety first also applies to finances.

#257 Howard on 11.29.17 at 4:26 pm

#249 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 3:22 pm

—————————————

You couldn’t have put the cats in another room, opened a window, and try to chase the bat towards it to fly out?

They’re harmless, and extremely beneficial in controlling insect populations. Not sure how big a concern rabies is with bats, but if it was trying to escape the cats, that would seem normal non-rabid behaviour.

#258 conan on 11.29.17 at 4:32 pm

Fourth, sex and realtors don’t mix- Garth

Yet, it happens a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ2yAnZ4EYc

#259 Nuke on 11.29.17 at 4:38 pm

Owning a house is not always the act of a madman or a fool. But the bank and the taxman does not fix your plumbing, mow your lawns, replace your kitchen cupboards and be on call for emergency. Losing thousands each month in interest, maintenance, taxes, insurance and opportunity costs and freedom with no upside other than possible “capital gain” if you sell must take a certain mindset. I couldn’t do it.

My rent gets a great house, full time staff, maintenance, electrician, carpentry, landscaping and fixed costs with long term price protection. And I get all these benefits at 1/5 the cost of owning. I also don’t need to worry over equity in the house, since the non-profit housing corporation uses it to keep my house in top shape.

#260 nick on 11.29.17 at 4:38 pm

I like Garth’s reply. Poor, whipped, wet-behind-the-ears sap. Give your head a shake. Ain’t no p***y good enough for a life of indentured servitude. If they run for the hills so be it, let ’em run, it weeds out the house-horny ball-busters.

#261 Crappy Marriage Counselor on 11.29.17 at 4:40 pm

Oh Evan,

Dude. You owe Garth a fabulous dinner. At Scaramouche. And a bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue. Hell, buy him a new TV set while you’re at it. Maybe send him to Jamaica for a vacation as well.

Garth just saved you: 1) at least half a million $ and possibly more, 2) a divorce (she’ll take the house you bought for her), 3) spousal support (until she finds a bigger, richer dude than you)

Evan, today was your lucky day.

#262 Of course on 11.29.17 at 4:56 pm

You have no crystal ball. Who knows how Evan’s turns out . Ridiculous assumptions , likely , based on bias /personal experience

Evan , this ain’t the for gf /marriage advice . Run from this section..,.run Like the wind

#263 nick on 11.29.17 at 4:57 pm

I got my own little real life story similar to Evan’s, but shorter. Recently girlfriend of 2+ years told me, buy house with me or we done. Answer: OK we done. End of story.

#264 Newcomer on 11.29.17 at 5:33 pm

#232 Need Advice eh
—————-
Start with youneedabudget.com, and you might find that you can get more than $500 a month together. Until you know for sure that you are maximizing your contributions, that will be more important than the return you earn on your money. Then try canadiancouchpotato.com for a good beginner’s guide to investing on your own.

#265 Tri State Pat on 11.29.17 at 5:43 pm

Evan I am so proud of you.

Listen to Garth.

Lache pas la patate.

#266 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 6:08 pm

4 Howard on 11.29.17 at 4:26 pm
#249 IHCTD9 on 11.29.17 at 3:22 pm

—————————————

You couldn’t have put the cats in another room, opened a window, and try to chase the bat towards it to fly out?

They’re harmless, and extremely beneficial in controlling insect populations. Not sure how big a concern rabies is with bats, but if it was trying to escape the cats, that would seem normal non-rabid behaviour
—————-

It was a “Big Brown”, they can’t get off the ground into the air again if they end up on the floor. I’ve had a few in the house and they just keep circling and circling until you knock them to the floor. Trying to get them to fly out of an open door is impossible, let alone a window.

I agree about bats being beneficial, and love having them around too – just not in my house.

#267 Blair on 11.29.17 at 6:25 pm

Eric,

Don’t do it. Just by having these doubts is a clear warning. If she wants the house, she can buy it herself. You will regret it.

Does she want a husband or a house?

Houses are places to live. It’s a commodity that pretends to be an investment.

#268 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.29.17 at 6:43 pm

@#249 IHCDT9
“There in the living room they encountered a Man passed out on our couch. He had also eaten some cheese out of our refrigerator.”

++++++

What the HELL is it about thieves and cheese?
Seriously.
Had my place broken into twice and after stealing, coins, tv, stereo, they went to the fridge and took my beer(understandable) and 2 POUNDS of cheese?
Are drug addicts Dairy deficient?

Hd a friend with a big dog that came home….front door ajar, place ransacked and his dog was missing.
The fridge was open and a pound of raw bacon was lying on the floor half eaten and (once again) the cheese was missing.
Insult to robbery…..
Found his dog upstairs lying on the bed barfing and crapping everywhere from eating a lb of raw bacon.

#269 Lisa on 11.29.17 at 6:52 pm

Are you OK, Garth?
It’s almost 7 PM…

#270 AGuyInVancouver on 11.29.17 at 7:19 pm

#251 Damifino on 11.29.17 at 3:49 pm
Many gasoline stations in Vancouver have closed in just in the last few months. Take these Chevron stations for example (among many others):

4th Ave at MacDonald
41st Ave at Oak
10th Ave at Broadway

They’re apparently not up for sale, but rather, being turned into ‘community gardens’. Why the sudden concern for neighbourhood aesthetics? What gives?
_ _ _
The City of Vancouver, which can’t bend over far enough for developers, gives them a tax break on the land if they turn it into one of these lame gardens while awaiting remediation/development.

#271 still learning on 11.30.17 at 1:25 am

there are a lot of paranoid men on this blog…

#272 Frances on 11.30.17 at 10:47 am

I’m starting to disagree with this whole ‘prices will lower’ in 2018 thing. If they lower it’s because mortgage interest rates will be higher, so you might end up paying more per month and over time for that ‘lower priced house’ you could have bought today for a higher price at lower rates. It’s like when people say, ‘we bought our house for 200k in 1980 and it’s worth a million today blah blah blah’. Well part of that is inflation, but another part is that you actually paid 8-10% for many years, meaning you actually paid much more than the 200k you think you bought it for.

So, rather than trying to time the market and get a deal on a house, if you can really afford it just buy it. Life is too short to be sitting on the sidelines. If you can’t afford it or have dreams of a million dollar portfolio, by all means keep renting!

#273 Bridge Doctor on 12.01.17 at 11:59 pm

COMING SOON…an apology from T2 himself for the harsh words of Garth Turner.

Millennials…bunch of bedwetters