The few vs the many

This week the prime minister committed $50 million to survivors of residential schools in Newfoundland (before the province joined Confederation). He also promised $40 billion for a housing strategy focused on lower-income-earners and women. Every week since being elected, with few exceptions, Ottawa has announced a new spending program. Over four years the federal government is expected to write cheques for about $100 billion more than it takes in.

CPP benefits will be increased. Families now receive $6,400, tax-free, for each child under six and $5,400 a year, per kid, for 11 years after that. The age at which people get seniors’ pogey was rolled back to 65 by the current government. The cost is $69.4 billion. (By the way, OAS has an unfunded liability of about $560 billion – to be paid by future citizens.)

On and on. To finance this, the average family pays about 43% of its income in taxes of all kinds. Ottawa has created a new tax bracket for ‘the wealthy’, who now face a 53% tax take on income. The budget in March will implement measures to increase taxes on the self-employed. It may also increase the capital gains tax inclusion rate, or alter the dividend tax credit.

In a speech a few days ago the prime minister blamed rich people for not paying enough, and vowed to change that. Meanwhile his own finance minister had a horrible summer as he tried to defend the considerable personal wealth he’d been sheltering from the federal ethics commissioner.

The supporters of Justin Trudeau, which seem legion, support the efforts to close the gap on income disparity. Instead of growing the economy and raising wages overall, the emphasis has been on taxing more. But narrowly.

There are some 270,000 people in Canada who earn over $230,000 a year, in the 53% tax bracket. That’s 0.62% of the population. The average tax they paid (before the latest increase) was $160,000. Together this tiny group of people (average age, 52) earn about 10% of all the income but pay 22% of all income taxes. Seems like a good deal for everyone else, but the prime minister says it’s not enough.

As pointed out here in the past when irritating lefties show up, this is not a social justice blog. We like money, income, investible assets, capital gains and financial independence. We practice tax avoidance. We’re into real estate, exchange-traded funds, designer dog treats, crypto currencies and mocking the deplorables who think it’s okay to be seen near a Costco.

Here there’s no shame to be accomplished, wealthy or even (gasp) self-employed. And we wonder why, in an age when it’s apparently okay to do nothing and let your house make you a millionaire, it’s wrong to start a business, employ people, and earn a million? Why’s one pile of money tax-free but the other open for tax plunder?

A tenet of successful politics is us-vs-them. Works every time. It’s working now. So the spring 2018 budget will not be a happy event for the 1%ers. Ironically, Ottawa could Hoover all the wealthy people of most of their income, and the needle still wouldn’t move for the 99%. Most people will continue to borrow too much, buy houses they can’t afford, save and invest little, be financially illiterate and look to the government to bail them out. Meanwhile every dollar in over-spending and each future commitment made by the gang in Ottawa will indenture the middle class (and especially the young) to higher taxes later. If we had more rich people things might look better. Alas, we have a drought. And the few are in the crosshairs.

So let’s put our cards on the table. Open the kimono. Bare all.

Do the affluent pay their fair share of the tax load? Do you?

Our GreaterFool survey asks for a simple question: What did your household earn last year, and what did you surrender in tax?

290 comments ↓

#1 TRUMP on 11.24.17 at 5:18 pm

Bill Morneau….you go first.

Bare All……We dare you?

#2 Alberta Ed on 11.24.17 at 5:29 pm

Not enough, and too much, considering how much T2 is squandering Canada’s future.

#3 huh on 11.24.17 at 5:32 pm

Hey Garth – You go first!

#4 Dr. Bob on 11.24.17 at 5:37 pm

You first Garth….:)

You’re anonymous. I’m not so lucky. – Garth

#5 Angie on 11.24.17 at 5:37 pm

We brought in 111,380.74 in 2016, paid 18,268.42 in tax.

#6 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.24.17 at 5:42 pm

Tax and spend , tax more and spend more, tax and tax and tax and spend way more.
Push that debt can waaaaaaay down the road to Millenial-ville when the country will truly be bankrupt….
The children of millenials will be cooking their parents over a campfire……

#7 Freebird on 11.24.17 at 5:43 pm

#1 Agreed. Then the PM and some of his friends (inc the Mulroneys etc) because most here are not a fan of hypocrisy. Look up how many Liberal/ gov’t execs have financial ties to marijuana groups. Conflict of interest?

Between our small business and personal, yes we pay our fair share. Thx for asking. And just like our PM/ finance min etc do what we can to reduce what we pay.

#8 Tintin on 11.24.17 at 5:48 pm

135000.00
Single earner, family of 4 (2 kids)
25000 in tax
(Max RRSP contribution, tax reduction at source)

#9 crossbordershopper on 11.24.17 at 5:51 pm

well, with 20% corporate and 12% and no state tax in florida, and better write off”s, mtg interest etc. i dont see why anyone would bother staying in Canada.
If your successfull or want to be, then pack your bags.
i was talking to a bong selling store, waiting for legalization, he thinks he can do 400-500K gross, i said dude collorado stores do millions, and in us $, Canadians are poor, cheap and troublesome to sell to. Asking all those questions,
Ask the natives if they pay their fair share of tax? thats right, when about half of people in Canada pay no tax, like nothing, what is fair, like really what % is fair if you pay nothing. perhaps we should change the question, what else do you have to offer our society.. the real question, if one person gives of their money in forms of tax, what does a poor person offer, obviously not money, how about time, and effort. food for thought.
why would a successful person even try.

#10 Eyes wide shut on 11.24.17 at 5:54 pm

The stupidity of majority of the masses and their financial illiteracy is mind-boggling. No wonder Canada put a drama teacher with no experience in the PM’s chair and the Americans elected an orange clown as their President. It is a flawed democracy that we pride ourselves in. Liberals or Conservatives, Democrats or Republicans – they are all the same. Nothing changes. They are all hungry for power and money and will sell their souls and their countries to achieve both. However, it is not the politicians who are to blame. We, the people are. We are the classic educated illiterates – uninformed, materialistic morons with power to vote. We do a miserable job in managing our personal finances and expect the Government to do it for us. Until we become an informed and a financially prudent citizen, nothing will change.

#11 Smoking Man on 11.24.17 at 5:56 pm

Calling 400 posts by midnight.

Had a shit year with consulting, gross was only 138k last fiscal year. Only 5 months of work.

Book is doing good. Best Invoice and Keys Me on track to total a million this year.

Off shore forex. Wouldn’t you all like to know.

Oh just in case CRA is taking notes.
Everyone knows I’m a bull shitter, a creative writer.
Wondering how much you spent so far on tracking my off shore activities.

Ha
Zero in my name. Good luck with your search while I compound huge. Proxy servers and encryption and a ghost that trades for me. Smoking Man Ghost.

#12 NoName on 11.24.17 at 5:59 pm

If memory serves me good, we were close to 98k each (me bit above, mrs NoName bit bellow) dysfunctional family of 4.

NoName
Ontario
income/tax/marginal tax rate
98/25/43%
Mrs NoName
Ontario
income/tax/marginal tax rate
98/25/43%

#13 Cecil Henry on 11.24.17 at 6:03 pm

Income tax is theft. You want a benefit?? YOu pay for it. YOu don’t want it, then don’t pay. Income pay flips that. Now your a piece of livestock. Its obscene

TAx should be a flat tax.

And yes we pay far too much tax, to be controlled and coerced with ONE vote every 4 years.

This is communism, and its hell.

Yuri Maltsev: Why Socialism Will Never Work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqYL6xxf_s

The modern Liberal’s efforts to attack the successful through government without openly initiating a confrontation, by cloaking their assaults within layers of phony empathy. (Phoney because the Liberal will only sate their empathy with the money of others.

If you’re getting everything for free then someone ELSE is being robbed with your complicity.

Steal from the productive: envy as social policy.
A serf paid 10% in taxes, and we pay 50% (and its not enough). NO MORE

What is your fair share of what someone else has earned??? It has to be EARNED before it can be taxed and stolen.

Otherwise why work????

#14 Bilious Festeroni on 11.24.17 at 6:05 pm

$133,500
Mostly a single earner (97% of income)
2 kids
$37,200 in tax, CPP, EI, etc.

Expecting that CPP and OAS won’t be around by the time I hit 65. Planning on supporting myself.

#15 tomohawk52 on 11.24.17 at 6:06 pm

My wife and I between us grossed about 40K last year. We paid almost nothing in income taxes thanks to both being self-employed, with lots of write-offs and making (relatively) large RRSP contributions.

No house, but a high six-figure portfolio.

#16 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 11.24.17 at 6:08 pm

Taxes were such a burden during the Roman era that being close and a good friend of the emperor gives you a big tax exemption. As its citizens suffered from high tax rates which resulted to poverty, the Roman elites were enjoying the good life, even making a direct path to high office.

Merchant’s don’t have enough money to pay their taxes and still have something left for them. To avoid fines, a majority of traders were forced to sell their only source of livelihood just to pay their dues. The result is lesser and lesser tax money as years go by and an ever increasing tax rates as a result of less market activity from bankruptcy.

http://history.econtrader.com/rome_increases_taxes.htm

#17 Randy on 11.24.17 at 6:08 pm

Love it when Liberal-NDP voters get bit in the ass by their own stupidity. Vote for more entitlements cause I’m maxed out.

#18 young & foolish on 11.24.17 at 6:09 pm

Encroaching socialism will ensure our “black market” economy grows at a healthy clip. You might want to stay on the right side of the law, but ……

#19 Guy Incognito on 11.24.17 at 6:09 pm

Well 110k salary and whatever gets deducted I pay
Rrsp gets me a 7k refund cheque

Another $35k in airbnb and basement apartment rent pay no tax F you Justin and Bill. Not worried about airbnb shakedown because I don’t live in city

#20 TheDood on 11.24.17 at 6:12 pm

EVERYONE in Canada – including rich people – pays way too much tax in relation to what they make, and the services they receive.

The government takes your taxes and basically flushes half of what they take down the toilet. Nobody seems to care enough to do anything about it. When the government needs more money, they simply raise existing tax or introduce some nonsense new tax (IE carbon tax).

The question (to me) is how do we hold them to task for the amount of waste? Voting them out once every 4 years? Not good enough. When a gov’t organization wastes billions of tax payer dollars (example – the Phoenix pay fiasco) , the people running the show who supposedly are providing oversight need to lose their jobs, lose their pensions, and get booted out the door. How to make this happen?

#21 Doug t on 11.24.17 at 6:14 pm

Over taxing the rich is a rather lazy way of generating dollars – why should the rich be taxed any differently? It’s not a crime to be successful – in fact doesn’t this country want people to be successful? Maybe it’s not worth becoming a doctor, lawyer or successful business person

RATM

#22 The One on 11.24.17 at 6:15 pm

This is just for me not my spouse:

Income:75097
Tax paid:14156

That’s under 20%. Not bad but my earnings aren’t especially high.

#23 Leinnay on 11.24.17 at 6:17 pm

“Families now receive $6,400, tax-free, for each child under six and $5,400 a year, per kid, for 11 years after that.”

Not every family. https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/child-family-benefits-calculator.html

#24 Apologies on 11.24.17 at 6:20 pm

“This week the prime minister committed $50 million to survivors of residential schools in Newfoundland (before the province joined Confederation).”

OK, point taken about this Liberal Government finding any excuse to give money away without being bound to find appropriate sources of revenue to pay for it. Their irresponsibility with our tax dollars is simply abusing the financial illiteracy of our population. We will pay dearly for this government’s financial mismanagement.

That being said, with respect to the $50M settlement and apology, the harm that was done under the residential school program was done from the period 1949 through 1978. Newfoundland joined confederation MONTHS after the first schools opened. In the decades that followed, CANADIAN aboriginal children were taken from their families, stripped of their language and culture, and in most cases sexually and/or physically assaulted. Because the schools were opened while Newfoundland was a distinct colony and because the federal government did not directly steal kids from their homes (they financed the provincial government department that did it post-confederation), the Newfoundland aboriginal population was explicitly excluded from the government’s past apologies and settlements on this issue. I can see how that is both emotionally hurtful and financially unfair.

I don’t expect everyone to be fully knowledgeable of all issues, but this one in particular does seem like it rights an inherent unfairness in what the government did in terms of past apologies and settlements. It deserves a bit of additional context, in my opinion. You can still disagree with the approach but the context for this particular giveaway is pretty critical.

#25 RyYYZ on 11.24.17 at 6:24 pm

Gross: $113k (including all benefits)
Tax paid: $24k (21%)
Marginal rate: 33.89 % (Ontario)
On taxable of ~$88k

I’m actually OK with this. In fact, I don’t even mind contributing more (which I surely will, the way the Liberals are spending) if I thought it would be well spent. We don’t do as well for the poor, disabled and elderly in this country as we could. Yes, there are people who abuse welfare or disability systems, but I believe they are a minority.

#26 Debtslavecreator on 11.24.17 at 6:26 pm

If you measure tax rates based on effective tax rates the self employed / Trust fund babies pay a much lower % of their true incomes and effective tax rates are very low for a small number of super rich precisely because a large proportion of their income comes from dividends, cap gains and trust holdings

Another much larger group that pays a very low effective tax rate is RE investors who live primarily off rents
I deal with many and the typical income is 20-30k line 150 and a net worth of 2-5 M

The upper middle class group of executive and other high salaried employees are the true tax donkeys – people similar to me and my wife who pay a very high effective tax rate to see low income people get “free” tuition and soon a 2500/ year rent payment taken from hard working mid-high income pros and our children via reckless deficits
No amount of tax is going to help these crook politicians
We are on a path similar to Argentina and Venezuela but call it the light version since I am an optimist
The non salaried rich need to pay more as a % of total /all sources of income but no one in Canada deserves to have more than 30% stolen from them by the majority who don’t pay much
Especially the army of public sector workers and especially retirees who are not and never were part of the tax base
Govt employees do not pay taxes
This is socialism collapsing

#27 nonamebc on 11.24.17 at 6:27 pm

229K income
Contrib 24.9K to RRSP
204K taxable
70K tax

#28 Pablo on 11.24.17 at 6:29 pm

2016 Tax

Single, male, 34

~$108,000 income
~$22,000 taxes (CPP, EI, and income taxes)
-Maximize RRSP and pension contributions
~$4,200 donations and political contributions

#29 X on 11.24.17 at 6:29 pm

Personal Income and Taxes or Business as well?

#30 Bezengy on 11.24.17 at 6:29 pm

What kind of lying, cheating, condescending, hypocritical, naïve, delusional, underhanded, self-promoting, flamboyant, crocodile tearing pink sock, apologizing, political engineering, socialist, misinformed, over emotional, selfie king, do we have running this country anyway?

Sorry, I don’t have your command of the English language as I’m sure I’ve missed a few.

#31 Cheese on 11.24.17 at 6:30 pm

I earned about 29k working retail ( #deplorablelatemillenial or however hashtags work, i dont use twitter…)
3k in taxes, 1.2k CPP
I’m not proud :(

#32 dosouth on 11.24.17 at 6:33 pm

Who really knows as all the “Panama/Paradise papers” have shown there are a lot of Canadians who work probably harder to hide their income and default taxes then probably at their day job.

Gen Xer’s and Mill’s are all hept up on saving the world, apologizing to everyone and writing cheques. They think, like they were probably raised, someone will save you and pay all your bills.

I think the subject line should be is where are all the dollars going to come from to pay for these programs? Not from you .62%er’s. They too busy hiding it.

This is not going to end well – probably sooner rather than later. IMHO

#33 Rick on 11.24.17 at 6:33 pm

Did not pay, I receive. Smart tax planning. :)

#34 Christopher Mewhort, EA on 11.24.17 at 6:35 pm

Very interesting. For a little perspective, this is Hawaii:

MFJ Gross 145
Tax deferred pension plans -29
Taxable 116
Taxes 33 (29%)
Plus about 1/month for health insurance

#35 Ex-Cowtown on 11.24.17 at 6:35 pm

Not sure what GT has against Costco. Buck and a half for a hot dog and a drink. Such a deal. Just about the only deal left in this country.

#36 NonameTO on 11.24.17 at 6:36 pm

2016 Assessment

Gross: $171k
Taxable: $145k
Tax paid: $38k

Think I’m doing my part and don’t like seeing the money wasted. In the past, I have voted for all 3 major parties at one time or another, but not liking the direction the current government is taking.

#37 Horatio Alger on 11.24.17 at 6:38 pm

$690k (mostly T4 so prob $275k this year). I have paid over $5MM in taxes in the last twenty years. You’re welcome. We are DINKs and have no complaints except that we can’t stand the waste. Got in a good heated discussion with some limousine liberals last night. They have loads of investments and real estate but want everyone else to pay more. I suggested a wealth tax (jokingly) — but they didn’t like that idea. I love Canada and don’t mind paying my share but it’s getting a little ridiculous. We live in the People’s Republic of BC. Who is John Galt.

#38 Goebaktuweir Ukamefrumm on 11.24.17 at 6:38 pm

DELETED

#39 magnummtl on 11.24.17 at 6:44 pm

wife and I, no kids.
total income combined: $282,000

total fed tax paid combined: 36,700
total Qc tax paid combined: 46,600

#40 South OK Fool on 11.24.17 at 6:45 pm

53,919
5,534
Family of two boomers, one still working part time in a vineyard.

#41 After Communism on 11.24.17 at 6:45 pm

income: $31500
Income tax: $4400
Property Tax: $5800
HST: I don’t know

#42 rainclouds on 11.24.17 at 6:45 pm

2016

Household income
141,428

Total tax paid
12,638

#43 acdel on 11.24.17 at 6:47 pm

As pointed out here in the past when irritating lefties show up, this is not a social justice blog. We like money, income, investible assets, capital gains and financial independence. We practice tax avoidance. We’re into real estate, exchange-traded funds, designer dog treats, crypto currencies and mocking the deplorables who think it’s okay to be seen near a Costco.

———————————————

I am still chuckling about your statement; what would we do without you? :)

——————————————————–

Well, it has not been a great year for me due to my locality, harder times this year.

As many have mentioned, everything is just going up, it is mostly all those little things that bite your income that clearly adds up thus reducing one’s spending or savings power.

Probably around the 50 to 60k mark, 10 to 15k on taxes and a whole bunch more on all the municipal charges, cost of living, etc..

#44 Where does all the money go? on 11.24.17 at 6:48 pm

Family of 5 (2 unequal earners plus 3 kids – school age over 6 yrs)
Total income from tax return – $207k
Total income tax – $38k
Property taxes – $4k
HST, gas taxes, etc. – $ thousands more

#45 JSS on 11.24.17 at 6:49 pm

Family income: $107K. Income taxes around $20K

Looking over the last thirty years or so, the middle class is getting eaten alive. I am in the middle class.

I really really wish i was in the top 1%, but I just can’t seem to make it. Easy money’s been made. It’s too late. And you need money to make money. Plus wages for middle class haven’t budged. Maybe all those big fat business men can pay us lowlifes a bit more. This way their taxes don’t have to keep going up.

So I’m ok with JT and company. And so are many Canadians:)

#46 Bezengy on 11.24.17 at 6:52 pm

Over $80 K this year plus $500 under the table so far , take home is $51K. Wife retired at 50 and has no income. I’m proud to pay my tax and I have no issue with sharing my good fortune with others. But, why on god’s green earth did CRA fine me over $1000 for a mistake I made of my TFSA contribution unbelievable, and is a slap in the face. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…not going to happen.

I think Norway has the right idea…total transparency with income statements…nothing to hide here.

#47 UnclePickles on 11.24.17 at 6:53 pm

106K income
18K tax

#48 Von on 11.24.17 at 6:57 pm

Don’t know why everyones worried about debt. The whole world is living off credit. Just enjoy it till everything collaspe on its on weight. Does anyone really think any of this debt is going to be repaid? The next generation is just going to borrow more to pay for more spending. And so on and so forth. We’ll all be dead by then for any of it to matter. As for our income, let’s say we took so much more in handouts than the tax we paid.

#49 Rich on 11.24.17 at 6:57 pm

2016 $350k around $75k taxes. 2017 $500k taxes TBD

#50 OttawaMike on 11.24.17 at 6:58 pm

Ah yeah, no.

Nice try though.

#51 Doug t on 11.24.17 at 6:58 pm

Come on Garth open the kimono – how much?

#52 Nonplused on 11.24.17 at 6:59 pm

My wife

$65,000/$16,000/24%

Me

$97,200/$5,377/5.5% but the number doesn’t capture everything because most of that is “eligible dividends and I already paid about $32,000(25%, foreign income so not eligible for the small business tax deduction, don’t know why hey I am bringing US money into Canada making Canada stronger!) of tax on that money through my corp so the real numbers are more like

$130,000/$38,000/29%

These are more like 2017 numbers I can’t remember 2016 off the top of my head my wife would be about the same I would be lower.

Personally I think for a working family to be paying $52,000 a year in taxes is plenty enough already. The problem isn’t that people don’t pay enough taxes, it’s that government spending is out of control.

Oh and I forgot my property taxes $4,500 and GST $6,800, $2,000 in Carbon taxes and whatever other taxes are embedded in Gasoline, smokes and booze So let’s call it roughly $65,300 in taxes on $162,500 income so combined we look like this:

$162,500/$65,300/40%

It’s actually a little higher than that because I didn’t include all the taxes.

Venezuela here we come!

#53 Adrian on 11.24.17 at 7:00 pm

$50k income last year & I would have paid $7k in taxes but I used the last of my tuition credits from getting a trade (I made Journey just over a year ago).

The problem isn’t really income inequality, but wealth inequality, especially dynastic wealth that undermines equality of opportunity within a generation or two of its re-emergence.

Taxes pay for roads, schools, hospitals, & other essential services. I tore the cartilage in my knee at sixteen, so I wouldn’t be walking/working today if not for socialized medicine. (I doubt my family could have afforded the surgery.)

In evolutionary biology, multi-level selection theory tells us that selective pressures operate at every scale they can. In other words, group selection is a real, and it operates as follows: selfish individuals beat altruistic individuals within the group, but groups of altruists beat groups of selfish people. Therefore, there is a dynamic tension in our evolution between selfishness & altruism that ensures that any group that becomes overpopulated by selfishness will fail. So pay your taxes ;-)

As for deficits, Garth, I said I would keep repeating myself if you kept complaining about them. Sovereign deficits actually help prevent financial crises & the collapse of capitalism. See Professor Steve Keen’s explanation here:

“How Austerity Works”
https://youtu.be/0y5rP56OX78

#54 Nonplused on 11.24.17 at 7:09 pm

I just noticed that all in my wife and I pay more in taxes than she earns! She works for the government for free!

#55 oleg on 11.24.17 at 7:09 pm

149000 family income, income taxes 22685.
this is only income tax, without property taxes, GST,PST, and many hidden taxes

#56 JakeR on 11.24.17 at 7:11 pm

I made about $55,000, and paid about $6,000 in tax. I put a little money into RRSPs and a lot into TFSAs. Unmarried.

#57 Uncle_Scrooge on 11.24.17 at 7:11 pm

Line 150: $59,820
Line 435: 6,332

#58 Joe Schmoe on 11.24.17 at 7:12 pm

I am ok paying taxes.

I am not ok with the government squandering what I pay on pet social justice issues (women’s rights in Madagascar…where they currently have a plague going on…like giving a kid without power an Xbox)…and needing to increase taxes to do so.

Wife and I combined in 2016 (personal income only):

Gross – $577K
Taxed -$152K

From our income we pay ~$45K/year in child care costs. Have 2 kids.

I have stopped donating to all charities. Easiest way to send a message to people who lean a little further left than me.

You can still help people directly, don’t worry about the receipt, and tell the charities to get the money they need from JT.

Can you guess how many people tell you “I know it was a mistake” when you tell them JT took it first?

#59 IHCTD9 on 11.24.17 at 7:14 pm

#15 tomohawk52 on 11.24.17 at 6:06 pm
My wife and I between us grossed about 40K last year. We paid almost nothing in income taxes thanks to both being self-employed, with lots of write-offs and making (relatively) large RRSP contributions.

No house, but a high six-figure portfolio.
————

Excellent job!

#60 Dan.t on 11.24.17 at 7:14 pm

Overseas, nice life, but didn’t earn anywhere close enough to buy a house in BC…actually, scrap that. What do I need down?

OH, darn, nice lady at the bank or that sweet mortgage broker will probably qualify me for 500k without verifying anything, so a nice 1 bedroom crappy apartment on the outskirts of YVR. doesn’t matter if I can afford taxes, strata, emergency repairs etc…or not,

just as long as I get a sick piece of BC real estate. Yeah!

I mean everyone in Canada is a millionaire real estate guru. They deserve to pay high taxes.

#61 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.24.17 at 7:16 pm

My silk kimono is wide open.

94k
Paid 18k
Maxed my RRSP’s got back 5k(slammed it into a TFSA)
So I paid 13k in income tax.
All the other taxes I pay are the price of living in a silk kimono world

#62 Nick on 11.24.17 at 7:16 pm

Not enough and way too much!

#63 Howard on 11.24.17 at 7:16 pm

But despite all that taxing and spending, they chose to renege on their promise to ditch the stock option deduction, something that mostly benefits zillionaire CEOs.

http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4030442

#64 Property Accountant on 11.24.17 at 7:17 pm

Me & wife’s income, 125K.

My taxes 11K, her’s 6K, both RRSP deduction mexed out.

#65 Zapstrap on 11.24.17 at 7:19 pm

#35 Ex-Cowtown on 11.24.17 at 6:35 pm

Not sure what GT has against Costco. Buck and a half for a hot dog and a drink. Such a deal. Just about the only deal left in this country.
—————————————————————-
There is always the IKEA breakfast.
Man am I ever glad I’m retired … the poor workers not only have to put up with all these taxes but the commute also. Stresscity.

#66 RE Legendary Agent on 11.24.17 at 7:20 pm

Tax 85% of anyone who earns more than $100k a year.

Make all money spent on real estate tax deductible.

#67 Lisa on 11.24.17 at 7:21 pm

This is embarrassing..
$28k. I’m not sure how much in taxes but I always end up owing money.
Until recently I was an ECE. Not worth it. Even with the wage enhancement grant of $2 per hour my best year I think I made close to $30k. Divided by 12 that’s a whopping $2500 per month. It went quickly! With rent being close to a thousand a month, car payments, food, gas, insurance, there was hardly anything left.
The wage enhancement grant for us underpaid child care workers ends up being a loan as we usually owe money at the end of the year, so back to Uncle Justin it goes.
I wish employers would take off more taxes for lower income earners because having that extra bit to pay (I paid an extra $700 last year) when you’re a single person can be a bit much.
I try to save as much as I can but it really isn’t feasible. I hated that the government gave us child care workers extra money. It made me feel like I was on assistance.
So I have mixed feelings about his plan to subsidize women and low income earners. On one hand it would be nice but just don’t make me pay it back at the end of the year, Uncle Justin. And don’t punish the guys, either. We’re all in the same boat!

#68 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.24.17 at 7:23 pm

@#53 Adrian
“The problem isn’t really income inequality, but wealth inequality, especially dynastic wealth that undermines equality of opportunity within a generation or two of its re-emergence….”
++++++

Ahhhh, the innocence of youth.
You’re assuming all govt has the best intentions with your tax money….

I used to think like you until I eventually realized the tax dollars I so willingly gave to the govt were being urinated against the wall in white elephant projects of dubious value or necessity.
Again and again and again.
When you see ALL levels of govt doing the same idiotic, wasteful election bribery year after year after year……it sickens you to the point you dont want to pay “your fair share” because it ISNT being spent in a wise or cost effective manner.

What did you “red seal” in ? Electrical?

#69 Asylum Seeker #67,350 on 11.24.17 at 7:23 pm

DELETED

#70 Shaggy on 11.24.17 at 7:23 pm

Employment income: $387k
Income taxes: $155k (no RSP room after pension adjustment)

Was an expat, returned a couple of years ago. Much as I love this country, the war on the 1% has me seriously considering leaving again.

#71 paying my share on 11.24.17 at 7:24 pm

Sold some revenue property last year, with income and capital gain, wrote a check to CRA for almost $700K, ouch. Working like a dog had paid off well, but given the Gov gets more of the profit than I do, I decided to work more like a cat (less). Less money for the Gov and less for me. Somewhat missing the returns but spending more time with the family and curled up in front of the fireplace.

#72 Binder Dundat on 11.24.17 at 7:27 pm

2016

Gross household income: 189K
Federal and provincial tax paid: 39K

#73 NoName on 11.24.17 at 7:28 pm

#28 Pablo on 11.24.17 at 6:29 pm
2016 Tax

Single, male, 34

~$108,000 income
~$22,000 taxes (CPP, EI, and income taxes)
-Maximize RRSP and pension contributions
~$4,200 donations and political contributions

~$4,200 donations and political contributions

that is not tax! and number is deceiving, i donated to flat earther 75cad earlier this afternoon, website shows “tax rebate” on donation and is in 50cad range.
so basicly you donated 1/2 of that amunt.

donation
noun do·na·tion \ dō-ˈnā-shən \

Definition of donation

: the act or an instance of donating: such as
a : the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution
b : a free contribution : gift

#74 NoName on 11.24.17 at 7:29 pm

not 1/2 its 1/3 typo, but you guys probably figured that one already.

#75 Guy in Calgary on 11.24.17 at 7:30 pm

140k-150k household. We received a large refund due to claiming deductions since we moved from Ontario to AB for work (with more carried forward since we moved later in the year). Due to having a reasonable idea of what we’re doing, I do not think we will ever be in a position where we pay tax at the end of the year with our current incomes.

#76 Sure on 11.24.17 at 7:32 pm

Ah, the make believe list of wages and taxes.

#77 TS on 11.24.17 at 7:33 pm

I make $97,000

My wife makes $103,000

We both have defined benefit pensions in Ottawa (Municipal and Federal), have amazing job security, extremely low houses prices in Ottawa when we bought (I’ve never had a mortgage over $140,000) and guess what?

Trudeau still sends me $212 a month for having kids (7 and 4) because I’m apparently “Middle Class”.

LOL, this country is going to be bankrupt soon.

#78 After Communism on 11.24.17 at 7:34 pm

@53 knee surgery is less than a car and less than house rent. You exaggerate. Maybe you would be frozen in a snow bank without free $40billion in housing, if your family can’t offord to lend you the couch.

#79 IHCTD9 on 11.24.17 at 7:35 pm

#33 Rick on 11.24.17 at 6:33 pm
Did not pay, I receive. Smart tax planning. :)
———-

Excellent!

#80 Howard on 11.24.17 at 7:36 pm

I live in France. Taxes are calculated a bit differently in that there are higher deductions than in Canada (for pensions, social security, etc) and the subsequent tax bill after filing is a percentage of take-home pay only.

Total tax bill, including deductions, is about 50% on a roughly 60K€ income (~90K$ CAD). Of course as in Canada the pension contribution you’ll eventually get back provided you live to 60.

Yes, it’s high, but it’s a trade off for the enhanced safety net, employee protections (almost impossible to get fired here), heavily subsidized transit (the Paris metro costs far less than the Toronto subway, for 7 times as many lines + regional RER routes included) and general lifestyle perks like minimum 5-week paid vacation. All the same, the taxes are such that I will likely not stay here long term.

#81 Nonplused on 11.24.17 at 7:37 pm

#53 Adrian

It is my summation that Steve Keen is off his rocker. Check out Milton Friedman or Thomas Sowell or even Ludwig von Mises or Murray Rothbard to get an idea how economies really function. Or Adam Smith for that matter.

This stuff isn’t rocket science and John Maynard Keynes and all who followed him are merely government apologists. When the government is looking to run a deficit, all they have to do is put out a few grants and they’ll find someone to say deficits are a good idea. Although Keen has gone beyond they pale when he describes them as “helping”.

Sustained structural deficit financing leads to default and bankruptcy, for individuals, corporations (except Tesla) and nations alike. It is mathematically impossible for any other result. Anyone who got a “C+” in math knows this. The only thing that has kept the current government debt sustainable is inflation, which reduces the current obligations of past debt. They have to inflate the debt away at 2% per year or the system collapses. That’s why they do it. Not because inflation is good for anybody. And of course deflation would be a total disaster because it would make all those past obligations even more valuable (and expensive to service) in the here and now.

This is why inflation must be positive, even if it means rates go negative. How you can have negative interest rates in a time of positive inflation doesn’t make any sense to me, or even an interest rate below the stated inflation rate, but times are strange indeed.

And anyway I don’t believe the government official inflation numbers any more than I believe the unemployment numbers. Unadjusted inflation is probably closer to 4% than 2%. The model is pretty complicated, and all the adjustments lower the reported rate.

Also the effect of inflation is pretty insidious from a tax point of view. Maybe you get a 2% cost-of-living increase at work. Sound fair because inflation was 2%. Except that the whole 2% goes in the tax program at your marginal rate, so you don’t get 2%. Every now and then they adjust the brackets but not very often. They should adjust them by inflation every year, but they don’t.

#82 MSM-Free Zone on 11.24.17 at 7:37 pm

I’m a blue collar deplorable, grossed just under six figures (nothing really celebratory in the $GTA$), of solely wage income last year, stuffed my tax-deferring RRSP with whatever pitiful amount my uncertain and fragile private DB pension would allow me, and dropped about a grand on tax-deductible charity last year.

Being a deplorable, my returns are not complicated, and my Turbotax software tells me I paid around 21% in total income taxes for 2016.

Actually, I don’t mind paying income taxes (roads, sewers, police, EMS, heath care, education, etc) as long as they’re spent responsibly, i.e. no Harper fake lakes, corrupt F-35 cost overruns, Baird/Clement gazebos, Kenney TFW hypocrisy, Fantino veteran abuse, KPMG off-shore tax scam forgiveness, etc.

#83 TraderX on 11.24.17 at 7:37 pm

This is my Canadian paystub every two weeks:
$9144.83 Gross
$3,091.35 withheld in tax

$237,765.59 annually
$64,918.35 withheld in tax annually (more than my wife makes in a year)

I have a unique skill set that allows me to make this much, but it does really make me wonder why I would stay in Canada. When as I earn more the tax bill gets even HIGHER!!

So many other beautiful countries around the world that would charge me so much less to live and work there.

Please just give us a FAIR flat tax that EVERBODY PAYS!

#84 MSM-Free Zone on 11.24.17 at 7:42 pm

#38 Goebaktuweir Ukamefrumm on 11.24.17 at 6:38 pm
__________________________________

Racist, bigoted, troll alert.

#85 Raincouver on 11.24.17 at 7:43 pm

“We believe that Chinese buyers spark the cycle, while local investors chase the momentum,” Credit Suisse said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-31/sydney-property-cold-as-chinese-capital-outlows-freeze/9103428

The story is about Australia and I am tired of your anti-Chinese posts. You are gone. — Garth

#86 gfd on 11.24.17 at 7:43 pm

The moose is on the lose. How else would the money go missing unless there’s a serious spending spree?

#87 mark on 11.24.17 at 7:44 pm

Garth, you are not taxed enough. Now you, a white man, have appropriated the Belfountain General store, restoring it to its heinous colonial roots, it is only fair that it is now turned over to a diverse social justice collective so they have free space for their non-binary yoga and origami classes and diversity initiatives – something’s very wrong with the colour of snow.

Now, before you turn over the keys if you could also leave $1 million in cash inside. This is so the three volunteers, who will run the space, can get through the first year and conduct overseas study tours on diversity in Cabo, Barbados, San Juan del Sur.

No maintenance or cleaning will be conducted over the next five years, so the space will soon reach its use by date. However, you will be allowed to buy it back at that time from the scj in a state of disrepair for a minimal sum of $3 million dollars.

#88 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 11.24.17 at 7:44 pm

Garth : sleeping at the switch ?

……………..

#38 Goebaktuweir Ukamefrumm on 11.24.17 at 6:38 pm

DELETED. Sorry. The idiot got by me. — Garth

#89 Guy in Calgary on 11.24.17 at 7:45 pm

“140k-150k household. We received a large refund due to claiming deductions since we moved from Ontario to AB for work (with more carried forward since we moved later in the year). Due to having a reasonable idea of what we’re doing, I do not think we will ever be in a position where we pay tax at the end of the year with our current incomes.”

Obviously had tax deducted at source and netted a tax liability.

#90 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 11.24.17 at 7:50 pm

CPP benefits will be increased. Families now receive $6,400, tax-free, for each child under six and $5,400 a year, per kid, for 11 years after that. The age at which people get seniors’ pogey was rolled back to 65 by the current government. The cost is $69.4 billion. (By the way, OAS has an unfunded liability of about $560 billion – to be paid by future citizens.)

……………………..

You don’t get elected by telling the truth and taking stuff away Garth. You get elected by lying and handing out freebies. Turdo is on a roll, Libs will get reelected with a bigger “ majority “.

#91 IHCTD9 on 11.24.17 at 7:51 pm

#38 Goebaktuweir Ukamefrumm on 11.24.17 at 6:38 pm
DELETED
———

Yikes!

#92 Lost...but not leased on 11.24.17 at 7:54 pm

During Pierre Turdeau’s reign..Canada’s National Debt rose over 700%, no other Prime Minster even comes close.

Is Justin up for the challenge? bwhahahahahahaha

#93 Danny on 11.24.17 at 7:56 pm

Trump is spending way more and reducing tax revenues big time.
Let’s see which Country blows up first. Canada or the US of A?
Both countries will always be in debt.
Question always boils down to……Corporate Welfare which the US of A had to provide….not that long ago
Or social welfare…..which for many countries is why democratic systems came into existence….to share the wealth….
This is why Monarchies fell in many places…..corruption…disregard for the ordinary person….don’t forget the ” let them eat cake”.
We too in Canada suffer from the Wrong Doings of past societies and power gluttony…..can’t hide it forever.
Politicians need to heed.
Fantino and Ernie Eaves now selling marijuana ….go figure
The smell of greed that changes old principles…..leopards do change their spots…..lefties or righties?

#94 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.24.17 at 7:59 pm

By the way, OAS has an unfunded liability of about $560 billion – to be paid by future citizens.
———————————————————————-
People who haven’t even been conceived yet certainly haven’t consented to be burdened with this. They won’t want to be citizens (for other reasons too). You can be sure that by then it will be made nearly impossible to leave the country (just like in North Korea, East Germany, Cuba, etc.)

#95 Howard on 11.24.17 at 8:07 pm

#23 Leinnay on 11.24.17 at 6:17 pm
“Families now receive $6,400, tax-free, for each child under six and $5,400 a year, per kid, for 11 years after that.”

Not every family. https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/child-family-benefits-calculator.html

—————————————

Quite right. I just ran the calculator for a hypothetical couple earning combined 120K a year, paying 18k in rent, with two kids under 6. Result is a pitiful 5k total in tax credits (vs maximum possible 13k).

Trudeau is determined to massacre the 75-90 percentiles in order to reward irresponsible life choices by lower-income people. The truly rich, as always, get off scot free.

#96 Willy H on 11.24.17 at 8:10 pm

CPP benefits will be increased. Families now receive $6,400, tax-free, for each child under six and $5,400 a year, per kid, for 11 years after that. The age at which people get seniors’ pogey was rolled back to 65 by the current government. The cost is $69.4 billion. (By the way, OAS has an unfunded liability of about $560 billion – to be paid by future citizens.)
___ ___ ___

Yes, and for many families these deposits into their bank account are considered a cash windfall which was never the intent. They enjoy a night out at a nice restaurant or book an Orlando family getaway while they build-up consumer debt and attempt to pay down their mortgages on over-valued real estate!

Most don’t have a nickel saved for retirement and many have little more than a pittance in RESP’s.

#97 Xpat on 11.24.17 at 8:10 pm

So the Liberals are spending way more than the Govt is taking in…adding to the budget deficit… what’s the knock on effect? Future Govt’s will have to reduce spending and services? Come on Boomers I need your help, you must have seen this play before ;)

I mean, the US just keeps growing their debt don’t they?

#98 Anonymous_1235 on 11.24.17 at 8:12 pm

From a US-Based Dog, resident in a northeastern tax-free state.

Married Filing Joint
Adjusted Gross Income :135,000
Fed Tax Payable: 14,500

The stuff nobody seems to talk about:
Social Security.Medicare: 7,000 paid by me, 7000 paid by employer
Property Tax : 10,000
Health Insurance : 20,000 (employer pays this but lose job, you’re on your own)

#99 the Jaguar on 11.24.17 at 8:12 pm

A little under 100,000 beans. It seems to be enough to float me and my interests and I am debt free. More importantly I happen to live in the best province in the country for taxation rates, as well as its many other attributes.
But the income tax isn’t the whole story. No sales tax in Alberta. Health care premiums paid by the province. Lower auto insurance ( by at least 1/3 using BC as a comparison) and lots of other smaller savings in areas where the Alberta government minds its own business and allows the market to set prices such the sale and selection of wine, beer, etc. All of us should pay our fair share and I have no beef with anyone who educates themselves and uses legal means for tax ‘avoidance’. But I agree with yesterdays post from Domain #398 – slap the cuffs on the cheaters.
Everything that comes out of T2’s mouth is all about looking and sounding stylish. Duterte sure put him in his place though….

#100 OttawaMike on 11.24.17 at 8:18 pm

This sounds like inspector Turner for. The CRA is coming to arrest me if I don’t send him some gift cards:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/corporate/security/protect-yourself-against-fraud/sample-telephone-scam.html

#101 IHCTD9 on 11.24.17 at 8:18 pm

I’m not going to bother hauling out the tax papers but:

Roughly 115K

RRSP ~14k
Charitable Donations ~20K

Total is pretty much equally split between the wife and I. Wife has a contract position and we save every receipt. Whatever we paid, it was undoubtedly low for the income bracket, tax return was 5 figures.

But the real action at the IHCTD9 compound is knocking over taxes on consumption. Need to prepare for the coming T2 nuclear winter.

#102 OttawaMike on 11.24.17 at 8:20 pm

Please Garth, for the love of God don’t even think of opening the kimono.

#103 Willy H on 11.24.17 at 8:20 pm

Off-topic:

For the first time I heard a colleague at work referring to OSFI B20. This individual was explaining (in a panic) how they were closing on a home purchase which they pulled into December (from 2018) to avoid the new regs. $1.2M on a bungalow in the inner 905!

Gets better, they explained that some folks closing in the new year were busy borrowing large sums from friends and family to plunk down a massive downpayment in order to do an end run around B20!

Who needs an poorly regulated Credit Union when Family Savings & Loan is ready and able: Their new slogan …

“Your family is richer than you think!”

#104 NoName on 11.24.17 at 8:21 pm

#68 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.24.17 at 7:23 pm

What did you “red seal” in ? Electrical?

—-

fartz, fartz fartz…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kn-XXNCG8o

#105 bubu on 11.24.17 at 8:25 pm

$240k / $60k ….

#106 acdel on 11.24.17 at 8:30 pm

Sorry Garth totally off topic!

The death of David Cassidy; whether a fan or not; I was not particularly, but I just read a story about his last words before death, ” So much wasted time”! Wow, imagine that to be your last words in life; it is an eye-opener. Here is a link to the story if interested:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5115495/Katie-Cassidy-reveals-father-David-Cassidys-words.html

#107 bring_it_on on 11.24.17 at 8:33 pm

We are OK with paying our taxes provided it goes to social programs, education, health care, the CBC, funding for research, the arts, etc.,.. i.e. things that help the social fabric and can spur new technologies. I am less enthused with T2’s recent moves of wasteful spending… and am becoming more disillusioned with him as time goes on.
Household income (2 professionals) 355K per year. Paid in BC roughly 112K in BC and Fed Taxes… no sprinkling for us, hiding in a business or other writeoffs etc…

#108 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.24.17 at 8:34 pm

@#104 no Name.

Good one!
I forwarded it to two of my buds.
An electrician and a millwright……

#109 Howard on 11.24.17 at 8:35 pm

#80 Howard on 11.24.17 at 7:36 pm
I live in France. Taxes are calculated a bit differently in that there are higher deductions than in Canada (for pensions, social security, etc) and the subsequent tax bill after filing is a percentage of take-home pay only.

Total tax bill, including deductions, is about 50% on a roughly 60K€ income (~90K$ CAD). Of course as in Canada the pension contribution you’ll eventually get back provided you live to 60.

Yes, it’s high, but it’s a trade off for the enhanced safety net, employee protections (almost impossible to get fired here), heavily subsidized transit (the Paris metro costs far less than the Toronto subway, for 7 times as many lines + regional RER routes included) and general lifestyle perks like minimum 5-week paid vacation. All the same, the taxes are such that I will likely not stay here long term.

———————————

Sorry I meant 40% tax, not 50%.

50% income tax (incl pension) on 60K€ would be insane even for France.

#110 WBS on 11.24.17 at 8:40 pm

“There are some 270,000 people in Canada who earn over $230,000 a year, in the 53% tax bracket. That’s 0.62% of the population. The average tax they paid (before the latest increase) was $160,000.”

Comparing a minimum of $230,000 income in this tax bracket to the average tax paid of $160,000 is misleading. If you’re going to say they paid an average of $160,000 in taxes, why don’t you indicate what their average income was?

#111 dr. talc on 11.24.17 at 8:41 pm

truth be told: the privately owned global banking system is in an long overdue death spiral.
People come here and type stuff like: capitol gains exemption on a house is ‘profit’ or a ‘windfall’; in reality it is neither, it is an exemption from being taxed on inflation (inflation being the hidden tax). A 25 year amortized loan will see the borrower pay about double the original principle amount. When a person buys a house in a desirable area for 500k he is virtually guaranteed that the house will be worth about one million in 25 years: it’s called inflation, show me the windfall, show me the profit- you cant. you spend a million , you take a million when you sell, that’s not business, that’s not ‘profit’

#112 Buforf Wilson on 11.24.17 at 8:46 pm

$263,164 Earned Income
$77,400 Income tax

#113 ulsterman on 11.24.17 at 8:50 pm

If Trump’s tax plan goes though and we avoid a stock market correction i’m in line for significant capital gains from my portfolio. If some gains were realized in say, Jan/Feb 2018 and the Feds changed the cap gains tax inclusion rates in the March 2018 budget, does anyone know if it would be retroactive to my gains, or would it only affect gains realized after the budget?

#114 Mobile on 11.24.17 at 8:52 pm

110,000 family income, about 20,000 in tax as some of it is passive income.

I also have a question for blog dogs:

What is wrong with shopping at Costco? To put it differently, what are the financially viable alternatives for a family with four children? I have tried to reduce our grocery bill by exploring all of the other options for buying food in Canada/Ontario and always end up with buying most of it at Costco finding it impossible to match their quality/price ratio elsewhere. Any ideas are highly appreciated.

#115 Popeye the Sailor Man on 11.24.17 at 8:53 pm

Tax form says the following;

Total income: 118K
Net Income: 94K
Taxable income: 87K

Taxes Paid: 6.7K
(have lots of deductions; stay at home mom and two disabled children)

#116 n'taa Graves on 11.24.17 at 8:54 pm

Garth-
Do you realize what a vicious attack you continue to mount on Canadian socialism? Do you really think that this new generation, so dependent on the nanny-state,so arrogant, so disastrously educated, can ever grasp the futility of concentrating on dividing up the pie instead of growing it.?
Only when they have consumed all the Seed Corn and
collapse comes will we rise from the ashes. The libs are in a dream world, clueless in economics and brain-dead as to human motivation. What a calamity.
But how noble of you to continue tilting, Don Quijote.

#117 acdel on 11.24.17 at 9:01 pm

#114 Mobile

Nothing is wrong about shopping at Costco or elsewhere; do it myself; it was tongue and cheek; we do what we have to! :)

#118 Trojan House on 11.24.17 at 9:02 pm

Justin – I pledge to give you 100% of my income because I don’t mind paying my fair share.

#119 taxed widow on 11.24.17 at 9:03 pm

For one year I was considered “rich”. Remember your article yesterday on how bad mutual funds can be. Well my husband had a lot that he kept for years and the capital gain was what pushed my income into the stratosphere for one year when he died. It was get rid of them all or pay 2.4% on everything a year on all of it. So, it’s not necessarily just the rich that get caught in this net. Widows who inherit stocks or mutual funds get caught too.

#120 The real Kip on 11.24.17 at 9:05 pm

I am looking forward my CPP/OAS should go well with the DB pension. Yesterday you told me I had “no money”, today you want to know how much I made last year? No chance!

Rock on Justin, I’m with you all the way!

#121 acdel on 11.24.17 at 9:13 pm

Oops sorry, fat fingers, meant to say tongue in cheek.

Just in-case you are wondering:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek

#122 Parksville Prankster on 11.24.17 at 9:14 pm

72K Split between me and the wife all as T5 Dividends which are then grossed up and given a tax credit because they are invested in Canadian companies and our own holding company. Taxes last year, about $900 (nine hundred), and a $1,400 invoice payable to our accountant who does both our TD1 general and Corporate filings at the same time.

#123 SI2K on 11.24.17 at 9:14 pm

Correction? We get $1812 in child tax benefit total for two kids including the disability supplement for one. Family income $148K. This benefit is sliding scale and not at issue for me, since it targets child poverty.

“Under the Canada Child Benefit, families with incomes of $30,000 or less receive $6,400 per child under age 6 and $5,400 per child per year for children aged 6 to 17. The benefit is gradually reduced as family income increases above $30,000.”

#124 Nick on 11.24.17 at 9:19 pm

@$49 – Rich on 11.24.17 at 6:57 pm

“2016 $350k around $75k taxes. 2017 $500k taxes TBD”

Could someone please explain how this is possible? Massive RRSP contributions?? Capital Gains?? Dividend income?? The taxes in any province on $350k are $130k+

Me:
Gross: $278k
Taxable: $252k
Taxes: $99k
Average Rate: 39.17%

This is all income (no capital gains, dividends).

#125 Adrian on 11.24.17 at 9:20 pm

#68 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.24.17 at 7:23 pm

Yes, I play with lightning! And we all wish the government would be less wasteful with tax dollars, me included. However, many don’t agree about what to spend the money on, hence politics…

*****

#78 After Communism on 11.24.17 at 7:34 pm

Google says ~$10k these days for an ACL replacement, including ~$2k for the procedure and ~$8k for the use of the facilities. My mom is poor and always has been. My dad was self-employed and worked hard, so he would have paid for it, but it wouldn’t have been easy. Yes, I was exaggerating for effect, but not by much.

*****

#81 Nonplused on 11.24.17 at 7:37 pm

Milton Friedman taught us YT = MV, but he missed a term that makes all the difference: dD/dt. So the equation should read YT = MV + dD/dt. This is what Steve Keen teaches, and if you examine the empirical evidence for yourself, you can see that it is true.

Monetarism teaches that the correlations between credit (i.e. change in debt) and employment – as well as between credit and asset prices – should be zero. But the correlation is often 0.5 or greater, for which Keen offers a cogent explanation. I’m sorry you think Keen is an apologist for government, but that is your ideology. The facts speak for themselves & Keen makes the BIS data series’ that he uses available to everyone for cross-examination here:

http://www.profstevekeen.com/data-on-credit-employment-and-house-prices/

I suggest you expand your knowledge-base beyond monetarism. Sustained deficits are only a problem if growth doesn’t keep up. Tax receipts scale with GDP, so if the debt-to-GDP ratio is kept constant, government debts don’t ever become a greater burden relative to their income, cetis paribus.

More than that, since debt IS what we use for money, eliminating it removes the medium of exchange from circulation and creates deflation. That’s what happened during the Great Depression: people were paying down debt, which caused unemployment to spike & GDP to fall faster than debt was being repaid. (In other words, debt-to-GDP grew as people paid down their debts because the economy shrank even faster.)

Government surpluses, for example, mean they are taking more in taxes than they pay back into the economy, which shrinks private sector bank balances. You & I can only accumulate larger bank balances if someone else accumulates larger debts. Look up “sectoral balances,” or watch David Graeber explain here:

https://youtu.be/LxJW7hl8oqM

#126 N.graves on 11.24.17 at 9:25 pm

Ulsterman 113
Months ago the plan was to.make it retroactive Who knows now, but will be spelled out in the bill if it should pass

#127 Jeremy on 11.24.17 at 9:25 pm

I paid over $150,000 in taxes last year on just over $300,000 in income. I also paid a $28,000 land transfer tax, and I’ll pay a fat capital gain in 2018 when I sell these Facebook shares that are getting too high risk. I can’t wait to vote these Liberals out, but we better get a socially conservative alternative. God dammit, why can’t people love people while still caring about money?! Seems we only get one or the other. Harper was an A-hole.

#128 Fred on 11.24.17 at 9:26 pm

Self employed . Hide cash in a corp , yeah I’m toast

$385,000

Taxes paid- no idea , block it out . Wife would know she writes the cheques

……..Dagone……..

#129 OlderbutWiser on 11.24.17 at 9:29 pm

2017 T4 YTD – Gross $804,206.27, total taxes withheld to date (incl CPP and EI) – $405,151.49.

I am quite certain that I am paying more than my fair share! This country is not the place to live if you are a high earning employee. You are clearly in the cross-hairs. Thank God I am retiring this year and will have the option to live anywhere in the world that I want. Trudeau and his war on those who work their a$$es off can go to hell…..

#130 bsallergy on 11.24.17 at 9:30 pm

Sunny ways, sunny ways. The liverals want to pretend that repairing every social ill is possible for free. The harpercrite selfservatives sucked people into believing that any tax was wrong and that you too could be rich by buying a house. Tweedledee and Tweeduldum are both sides of a dishonest political spectrum. I have no problem paying my share of taxes. I like paved roads, fire engines, ambulances and hospitals, etc. I don’t like knowing that millionaire politicians and their billionaire buddies aren’t playing by the same rules they apply to me. Wasn’t it the Bronfmans who had an advance ruling by the cra that it was ok to move billions offshore without taxes when Cretin was cutting back on us and wasn’t p martin the finance minister who changed the rules about foreign flag ship ownership after reflagging his fleet. They all talk ethics but behave in ways that make their ethics questionable. Hated Harper, but at least I knew what he was about god bless.

#131 Vampire studies GMST on 11.24.17 at 9:30 pm

Mrs V and I made about $55k each and had deductions
totalling $15k and paid about $16k total tax, not incl CPP

#132 Dan.t on 11.24.17 at 9:38 pm

Good to see all blog dogs are are taking home 180k, but… “ya know, I only work like, 2 days a week”…

I thought the average family income, based on stats can was around 75k in BC, 85+- in GTA and 90+ in Alberta. Or have things changed?

I guess things have changed in Canada. You are now a loser if you don’t make over 100k? Nice. But then again, with 900k house prices, I guess that is the only way.

#133 Adrian on 11.24.17 at 9:43 pm

#81 Nonplused on 11.24.17 at 7:37 pm

I’ve only read limited amounts of Adam Smith (I keep meaning to read more!) but I thought you might like to see some of what he really thought, as opposed to the pop-culture interpretation of him as the champion of the invisible hand:

“No society can surely be flourishing and happy of which by far the greater part of the numbers are poor and miserable. ”

“In regards to the price of commodities, the rise of wages operates as simple interest does, the rise of profit operates like compound interest. Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.”

“It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”

Hardly the bastion of right-wingery that many believe…

(As a brief aside, the quickest counter-argument I know to the “invisible hand” – the idea that self-interested behaviour *must* result in a pareto-optimal outcome – is the prisoner’s dilemma. Rational self-interest can easily result in sub-optimal outcomes for everyone, which is probably why humans evolved to be pro-social rather than rational.)

#134 Sydneysider on 11.24.17 at 9:48 pm

I have no idea what I or my wife paid in tax. I tend to pay more attention to what things cost. No point in saving 5% of your income if you then pay $2 for a $1 cucumber, and $10 for a bottle of wine that you can make for 50c.

#135 BillyBob on 11.24.17 at 9:51 pm

Can’t afford Canada. Left.

Gross Income (2016) including housing allowance: $264,000.
Tax: 0%
Net Income: $264,000

Dubai, UAE.

#136 Toronto_CA on 11.24.17 at 9:56 pm

According to my 2016 tax return, with just little old me since I don’t have a spouse yet:

Total Income 241,510
Taxable Income 192,330

Total Tax Payable 67,216
27.8% of my Total Income
34.9% of my Taxable Income

I’m single, 40 years old, and I guess a 1%er. Or a .62%er?
Lucky me!

Now in Cayman where I pay 0% income tax.

#137 Smoking Man on 11.24.17 at 9:58 pm

Lindsay Shepard my hero. This is a true feminist

She secretly recorded what acedimia is all about. Total retarded man hating lesbonic heretics.

If you want your child to become a drug addict then commit suicide send them to university.

Google Lindsay Sheppard listen to the recording.

Pathetic communist teachers at it again.

#138 genbizx on 11.24.17 at 10:00 pm

$115,000

$16,300

#139 I don't really like TO on 11.24.17 at 10:02 pm

Me + Wife in early 30’s in TO
2016:
Income: 87k + 55k
Tax 20k + 6.5k
Do your own % calcs.
Investments > 400k.

Per the stats I guess we are above average. Sure don’t feel like it, but I guess its that mentality which helps us save. Renting for life by the looks of it.

#140 Still here on 11.24.17 at 10:06 pm

Tax planning
2015
Line 260 $1,521K
Line 482 $565K
Refund $18K

2016
Line 260 $705K
Line 482 $344K
Refund $45K

See what I did there? And Ontario increased its income tax rate yet had a shortfall in income tax revenue to projections despite a growing economy and employment levels….

#141 Ace Goodheart on 11.24.17 at 10:07 pm

1% don’t pay tax. Middle class pay tax. The 270,000 people you refer to are middle class. Upper middle class but middle class all the same.

1% will never pay tax.

#142 Loonie Doctor on 11.24.17 at 10:16 pm

Well, since it is Stripper Night at Greaterfool, I will open the kimono and show the Full Monty.

I am probably a case study in how tax disincentive for productivity works. Prior to the past year, I worked about 1.5 FTE of a doctor job. The extra 0.5FTE was stressful work at night that was very hard to fill. So, I did it for years. I figured that it was a need to be filled and that I should make hay while the sun was shining. I am glad I did because the money I socked away gives me more options now.

I didn’t mind paying my fair share of tax actually, but it is now getting punitive to work both from taxes and the hostile public view of people who work and make that much money. So, I stopped doing the unpleasant work this past year. I now work about 1 FTE. Along the way, my wife had to quit her career because my hours we so erratic and we have kids to provide stability for. I am the main income earner, but she works as hard as I do both doing work for my practice and keeping our household running. We are all happier that I work less now. It has left a gap to cover at the hospital, but not my cross to bear anymore – I did my share.

Cue the bad music and flashing lights. I pulled out my tax filings and matched them up as best I could.

2016
Gross clinical income: ~$750K
OHIP Clawback: ~25K (~5% of OHIP)
Tithe to the University I work with: 35K
Other Overhead: ~50K
Net business income including investment returns: $663K
Corp Tax Bill: $106K
I pay us a combination of salary and dividends from what is left in corp. I made max RRSP contribution (spousal of course). Household personal tax bills for 2016 were 182K.
So, on earnings of about 700K after overhead, we paid $288K income tax (41%). Add in the Ontario government OHIP clawback and University tax and it was $348K (50%).

That was punitive enough for me to decrease my work since I was making ~35 cents on the dollar with my marginal tax rate, OHIP clawback, and University tax. Not worth it.

My projection for 2017: Income ~500K. Taxes ~200K combined corp and personal. It is still a tonne of money and I have a great job that is much more livable.

Hope you found that as titilating as I did.

If anyone moans or criticizes about how much I make, don’t expect me to make any apologies. I trained for 15 years to land the job I have, accrued debt, and I had to be “top of my class” each step of the way. I am on the high end of doctor incomes, but also have a high stress/bad hours specialty with a high burnout rate. I and my family have paid the price for our success. We have decided to stop that nonsense.

My wife and I have already discussed it and if this Trudeau crap continues after the next election it is a signal that the public likes the current direction and wants more. We have the options of me going part-time, retiring, or going to the US depending on what the environment there is like. We don’t want to be caught with the last ones crowding the exit. I honestly will likely continue to practice for love of medicine aspect of it for many years. I am just not sure where and whether I’ll continue to jettison the less pleasant aspects of my practice.

I worry for the future of our country if we continue down the current path of recklessly spending and taxing “the working wealthy” to death. It seems nice on the surface, but the reality is that incentives affect human behaviour. If we provide too much incentive to produce the minimum needed and punish excess productivity in others, then the outcome is predictable.

#143 MSM-Free Zone on 11.24.17 at 10:18 pm

#107 bring_it_on on 11.24.17 at 8:33 pm
“….We are OK with paying our taxes provided it goes to social programs, education, health care, the CBC, funding for research, the arts, etc.,.. i.e. things that help the social fabric and can spur new technologies. I am less enthused with T2’s recent moves of wasteful spending… and am becoming more disillusioned with him as time goes on……”
____________________________

Ditto on that.

I gave t2 a chance to distinguish himself from the last band of arrogant, self-serving, two-faced Harpocrites.

Looks like 2019 is fast becoming a year of rinse-and-repeat.

#144 akashic record on 11.24.17 at 10:30 pm

190K/ t00.M^ch!T2/

#145 post of the year on 11.24.17 at 10:30 pm

I worry for the future of our country if we continue down the current path of recklessly spending and taxing “the working wealthy” to death. It seems nice on the surface, but the reality is that incentives affect human behaviour. If we provide too much incentive to produce the minimum needed and punish excess productivity in others, then the outcome is predictable

……..

applause……applause…………curtain call……..

#146 Trevor on 11.24.17 at 10:33 pm

Family Gross Income – 220k
Taxes Paid – ~90k

#147 joblo on 11.24.17 at 10:33 pm

Hmm, should I wait til 2019 and see if T2 is ousted
or
1. Leave as non resident
2. Pay 25% with holding tax
3. Get Expat health insurance
and come back after 2 years if sanity is restored?

#148 N on 11.24.17 at 10:40 pm

Here’s my income for 2016
Gross – 85,700
Income Tax deducted – 16,984
CPP – 2544
EI Premiums – 955

As someone else mentioned – this does not include the 13% GST/PST on most goods purchased.

Wished that my taxes were lower. Could have saved some money to help others or even help myself.

#149 NoName on 11.24.17 at 10:50 pm

#133 Adrian on 11.24.17 at 9:43 pm

Read about Dr. Richard Clarke Cabot Cambridge-Somerville Youth Study. forget that Smiths invisible hand.

#150 MF on 11.24.17 at 10:55 pm

#132 Dan.t on 11.24.17 at 9:38 pm

It’s always like this any time Garth asks us to give some sort of personal statistic. So take it all with a bit of a grain of salt.

It’s like a dating website. All the guys list their height as 3 inches taller than they are and all the women list their dress size 3 sizes smaller than they are.

MF

Why would anon people do that? – Garth

#151 Leaving this country on 11.24.17 at 10:56 pm

We are two professionals in the 1%

My income $256,882 – line 150 –

Taxes paid – $84,663

Spouse’s income $161,042 – line 150

Taxes paid – $29,891

Wife’s taxes got reduced due to child care, RRSP, and capital losses offsetting capital gains.

Her corp $165,000

Taxes paid $18,905

So total income of $581,924

Taxes paid of $133,459 not including property taxes, sales taxes, CPP & EI.

2016 was a low rate of taxes due to some capital gains. We don’t distribute any of the income from the corp and maximize our RRSPs.

With the attack on small businesses and increase in tax rates we are leaving Canada in 2018 and moving to Singapore. We’ll pay no more than 20% and get all the benefits that we do in Canada.

#152 NoName on 11.24.17 at 10:57 pm

interesting read

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/tesla-s-newest-promises-break-the-laws-of-batteries

#153 JWD on 11.24.17 at 11:02 pm

Loonie Doc,

Interesting case. Thanks for the full monty :)

Canada is certainly going further down the path of taxing the working wealthy and in turn, more and more will cheat the system. Cheers to you sir.

I live overseas in a non tax country and the more I read here, the more time I’ll try and stay put.

#154 Alex on 11.24.17 at 11:07 pm

Hi Loonie Doc

Let me tell you that I fully understand your situation.
I am in the situation as you are but in another province.
MD FRCSC having worked all my life to be where I am right now.
People have no respect for us in this province and our ‘big’ income is always in the news.
700K gross
75K in business related expenses (rent, secretary and tech salaries, etc.)
Taxes paid more than 300K
No corp here
3M net worth
You bet the liberals can go to hell and everyone who thinks that we are not ‘worth’ our ‘big’ income.
I work part time 4 days a week and as soon as I reach the 5M portfolio this will become 2 days a week and once the 7.5M is reached, hasta la vista baby ! screw ’em !

#155 MF on 11.24.17 at 11:11 pm

#142 Loonie Doctor on 11.24.17 at 10:16 pm

I appreciate the work you do and how detailed your post was. Just want to clarify a few things since this topic was front and center on our blog for a month straight earlier this year.

1) Canada does not have an “eat the rich”, or “eat the rich doctor” mindset. T2 was only elected because of the hate Harper crowd of morons and because he promised legalized weed for potheads. Now we are stuck with him and his stupid policies (witness the backlash the Liberals received with their pathetic tax changes earlier this year).

2) Schooling and debt do not mean anything anymore. Hasn’t since the 1990’s. We have lots of Phd’s with tons of debt and schooling working at Starbucks. Studying in med school is a privilege since post grad employment is guaranteed.

3) Something not mentioned very often is the chronic underemployment that exists out there. A lot of employment is contract/temporary work. A lot of people don’t have enough hours with one position and have to cobble together many jobs to make it work. The ability to work as many hours as you can is a positive, not negative.

4) We had a lot of great posts on here about the realities of starting up practice in the US. Some positives, but lots of negatives as well. If there is nothing more frustrating/frightening, it’s the thought of losing our best specialists/doctors to the US. I feel that threat is the origin of a lot of perceived hostility towards our MD’s.

That’s all!

MF

#156 renting in Surrey on 11.24.17 at 11:14 pm

single earner
150,000 gross income
45,000 income tax + CPP + EI

#157 Hope on 11.24.17 at 11:15 pm

Line 150 – $72,527
Line 435 – $15,664
Self employed, rent, single, kids flown the nest, max out RRSP, max out TFSA

#158 Oakville Owner on 11.24.17 at 11:21 pm

Just under making the “Sunshine List” three years in a row. Married up 13 years ago to a smart, beautiful woman who holds her own in the private business world.
Sadly every last gross penny I earn and then some goes to cover the family tax bill!

Garth- Next meeting we need to work on legal tax avoidance options!!

#159 Steve White on 11.24.17 at 11:22 pm

Here’s an observation. Our governments, all levels, waste tax dollars that both the hard working wealthy and hard working poor pay. Everyone has a story of government waste. If households were run like this, collectively we would be in trouble. It’s always different when it’s not their money.

The politicians are very skilled at framing an argument of us vs them. It divides the commenters of this blog. Perhaps the discussion should change to accountability for those in charge. Perhaps politicians with equal lack of financial knowledge should be put under the microscope instead of a left vs right argument.

#160 Fake News Again on 11.24.17 at 11:24 pm

“There are some 270,000 people in Canada who earn over $230,000 a year, in the 53% tax bracket. That’s 0.62% of the population. The average tax they paid (before the latest increase) was $160,000. Together this tiny group of people (average age, 52) earn about 10% of all the income but pay 22% of all income taxes. Seems like a good deal for everyone else, but the prime minister says it’s not enough.”

The Govt in waiting – Federal or Provincial – that says:

“We are going to CUT the size of Govt by 15%” – will win by a landslide…..

#161 Ace Goodheart on 11.24.17 at 11:26 pm

Ace & Co 2016:

Yours truly: 249,861.00

Better and more responsible half: $72,000.00

Total: 321,861.00

Taxes: Well you figure it out. We could support a small country with what T2 takes from us.

I earn more than 1/2 my income from dividends, which helps. The other slightly less than 1/2 is from running right now two businesses (used to be three).

I like to juice my returns. There is a way of doing that.

At any rate, just got back from the Christmas party. Way way way too much red wine. Drink tickets only good till 11? WTF? Means you have to power drink, which is so stressful. I would rather just maintain it and plateau. Power drinking is so 1980s.

#162 Brandon on 11.24.17 at 11:30 pm

$70 + $30k salaries for me and my wife with approx $30k in tax. Business income of $210k with approx $30k in tax. Total $310k of which we paid $60k in tax. Directly created jobs for others who paid a combined $240k in income tax as well.

#163 ceeril on 11.24.17 at 11:30 pm

single earner

$113200
$30470 in tax +EI and CPP

apparently my co workers say you get a lot of tax back if you work a lot of overtime, i’ve never seen it happen.

#164 MF on 11.24.17 at 11:38 pm

Why would anon people do that? – Garth

Because they are anonymous. Nothing can be verified. You can get a reaction out of others, maintain your online persona/reputation, feel better about yourself and have fun doing it I guess? Basically troll.

That said, there are a lot of posters are truthful and that’s why I have been reading for years.

#160 Fake News Again on 11.24.17 at 11:24 pm

“We are going to CUT the size of Govt by 15%” – will win by a landslide…..

-Along with a corresponding cut in services too right?

MF

#165 TurnerNation on 11.24.17 at 11:50 pm

Yearly gross salary 1000 x my IQ haha. Plus balanced portfolios though mainly in TFSA & RRSP.

I pay whatever TurboTax says I owe or not. Haven’t yet been audited. Software works.

#166 Hoonigan on 11.24.17 at 11:54 pm

185K Income, 175K of it from overseas.

73K Overseas tax
5K Canadian tax

42% tax rate.

Joys of being a deemed resident for tax purposes of two countries.

This is my 19th year of work overseas. I’ve never dodged Canadian taxes, ever. Been audited by CRA 3 times, been to tax court once, almost made it there twice but CRA wisely threw in the towel on another unwinnable case.

Its now really hard to see that money go out when it is squandered by an arrogant government (watched Parliament question period lately?) that seems to be hell-bent on turning a functioning country into a quasi-worker’s paradise. Having long worked in former Soviet-bloc countries, I know that doesn’t work out so well…

Had I been smart like some of my co-workers, gone non-resident and domiciled in Panama, I’d be retired by now.

I’m concerned about my kid’s future with the anchor chains of debt that T2 and Wynne are wrapping around his young neck.

#167 OpMan on 11.25.17 at 12:11 am

$158K Gross Family Income
$23K Net Income Taxes

#168 BK from BG on 11.25.17 at 12:13 am

Household income about $300K and paid over $150K in imcome tax, adding gas, property and other municipality taxes, another $20K…..more then half of our income, I’m glad I subsidize the blog dog complainers (sarc off)

#169 Mrs. Fool on 11.25.17 at 12:20 am

My income is below the poverty line and I’m not proud of it. I get 28,500, pay no taxes but 38% percent of it goes to pay tuition and university fees (I’m a graduate student). I have been in this financial situation for longer than I planed, and despite all my expenses, I have managed to stuff money into my TFSA (don’t live in a basement by the way). Hopefully my future will be better, thanks to this blog I have invested my savings and now I embrace calculated risk.
There are a lot of people struggling to make ends meet but the goverment policies won’t change their situation. People don’t want hand outs, just opportunities to thrive but unfortunately there are no many in this country.
This past summer I went to the General Governor residence and was told that it was the property of all Canadians (but I’m sure if I won’t be allowed to spend a couple of nights there). Staff showed visitors how oficial dinners were organized and I was impressed by the lavish spending. So, as it have been said here, the goverment has a spending problems and no amount of taxes will be enough to support its ‘promises’.

#170 anonymous on 11.25.17 at 12:34 am

I have been following you for years now and i think, you are stupid.
Sorry about that.

#171 Loonie Doctor on 11.25.17 at 12:35 am

#155 MF

Thanks for your comment.

1) I hope that you are right with your point #1. I was around when the “eat the rich” and “eat the rich doctors ’cause they take no risks” stuff was coming out in the steerage section of this blog. It was real, but who knows if it is just a vocal obnoxious minority or not. It is hard to know what will happen with the next election given the various spin the media takes on things. The Liberals are a pretty slick media machine. Our government in Ontario has been pretty openly hostile with us for a while. I never thought that the Ontario Liberals would get re-elected with their gas plant scandals, ORNG, eHealth, the list goes on. But they did. They are already ramping up their vote-buying schemes.
It is interesting. The people that I deal with on a day to day basis are generally quite grateful and honestly very rewarding to work with. Strange things happen to people when they are thinking about groups of people rather than the individuals that they know. I honestly cannot remember ever seeing my colleagues as demoralized as they are now after the last few years of rhetoric from our provincial and now federal governments. It alarms me because it is a group of people who are generally resilient, work hard, and care about what people think.

2) Medical school and practicing medicine is a privilege. Not just for the guaranteed job, but for the actual work that you get to do. It is an earned privilege, but one nonetheless. I feel bad for PhD Starbucks workers. They obviously took a risk investing in an education with limited job prospects and it didn’t work out well for them. I do understand the intrinsic benefits of getting a higher education both to the individual and society. However, there are some more directly employable degrees than others and people should consider that before committing to them. Getting a college diploma in an employable field after their University degree is a better fiscal decision for most people. It is what my dad in the 70s and my wife did in the 90s. It is nothing new. We all make our choices about what education to invest in – some invest for the intrinsic benefits and job prospects. Others just for the intrinsic benefits, I guess, or they didn’t plan ahead.

3) As I mentioned, I was happy to do the extra work and make hay while the sun was shining. However, it was available because it was undesirable work for the vast majority of my peers. Many literally thought I was crazy to do it actually. I stopped because of the shift in taxation past a proverbial line in the sand for me, my advancing age which affects my ability to work those hours, and also because there are now some younger people in need of the work who do have the constitution. Medicine is interesting in that you can work as much as you can in some fields, but in others you are limited by government caps on hospital resources. I feel bad for the surgeons who can’t find work and for the patients who are left waiting simply because the OR time has been capped and they don’t have one of the diseases the government has targeted dollars at. We have under-employed areas in medicine which is shocking given the demand.

4) I actually don’t think practice in the US is any better at present. They have similar issues. Just substitute government for insurance companies and voila – same frustrations. I have watched the pendulum swing back and forth. When I went to med school, about 1/3 of graduates were going to the US because it was clearly better there at that time (1990s). We made up a lot of ground and I think Canada has been a far better place to practice from about 2005 to 2012. We have been swinging back the other direction since then. I am just keeping my options open because Trudeau seems to be pushing the pendulum pretty hard. I think the threat of losing established physicians like me is quite small. I have roots here. I am more likely to cut back to just work enough to enjoy what I do than to leave. I think most threatening to leave are making empty threats. My wife and I happen to like the environmental climate in the US, but it would still take a lot to make us uproot. I worry more about those starting out who have fewer ties. If people worry about them leaving, hostility is definitely not the answer.

#172 HOMEOWNER on 11.25.17 at 12:39 am

#132 Dan.t on 11.24.17 at 9:38 pm
Good to see all blog dogs are are taking home 180k, but… “ya know, I only work like, 2 days a week”…

I thought the average family income, based on stats can was around 75k in BC, 85+- in GTA and 90+ in Alberta. Or have things changed?

I guess things have changed in Canada. You are now a loser if you don’t make over 100k? Nice. But then again, with 900k house prices, I guess that is the only way.

Hi Dan.
I was wondering, are a homeowner?

#173 Victor V on 11.25.17 at 12:40 am

$396,996 gross (wife and I)
$90,097 has tax paid

But this was an anomalously low tax year due to a much larger than typical rrsp contribution.

#174 Entrepreneur on 11.25.17 at 12:45 am

I am thinking on similar lines as you #159 Steve White…We have these political parties fighting back and forth, putting on a show for “us Canadians.” Time to bring in a new system and less time putting on a show which is getting boring.

Google “Could Technology Remove the Politicians From Politics?” and “Reform Political System.”

A start in the right direction and the seed has been planted.

We have laws against the things that are wrong for us but we don’t have laws against debt/credit, a crime against themselves and now the country.

#175 Lost...but not leased on 11.25.17 at 12:53 am

Re: MD’s

A while back, I had an interesting experience.

Via an ailment,I scheduled an appointment with our family MD.

Long Story short…my own MD had to take time off for a medical condition.

I then had (2) different “locum” replacements.

My “diagnosis”…ALL 3 MD’s gave me different diagnosis’. (??????)

#176 M63ab on 11.25.17 at 12:57 am

Family of 1 retired boomer. 2017 disclosure for your pleasure. I wish Trump, Trudeau and Morneau had the courage to do the same.

$26,500 indexed pension incomes (no OAS yet)
$43,000 RIF/RSP withdrawals (budgeted to age 90)
$ 5,500 Dividends from nonreg investment a/c
$ 4,700 Capital gains from nonreg a/c (varies)
$79,700 Gross Income

$14,400 Fed & Prov income tax (no EI or CPP)
$ 3,800 Property tax (rising @ 5% per year)
$ 2,300 GST (guesstimate)
$ 200 Carbon tax on natural gas bill (rising fast)
$20,700 Direct taxes paid

I have to just make sure I don’t die with large RIF and RSP balances.

#177 Pretentious Hipster Bucycles on 11.25.17 at 1:00 am

Between my wife and I we pulled in approx $175k.

Our total tax bill at year end was $10k, not including tax deducted from my wifes T4 income of $50k.

This also excludes what the company I have owbership in paid in corp taxes.

#178 Jon B on 11.25.17 at 1:02 am

Income: acquired by years of education, toil, difficult decisions and hard work.

Taxes: stolen from me on a whim by people who declare I’m a criminal while idolizing the tales of Robin Hood.

Marginal rate: who cares, when can we vote these socialists out?

#179 BoomTime on 11.25.17 at 1:03 am

Line 150 = $102,675.00
Line 260 = $91,946.00
Line 435 = $21,260.99

Average rate on net income = 23.12%

#180 Adrian on 11.25.17 at 1:07 am

Sorry, brain fart.

YP = MV + dD/dt

#181 diharv on 11.25.17 at 1:12 am

The trouble with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money.

#182 Lost...but not leased on 11.25.17 at 1:18 am

FYI: Legal Notice of “Bragger’s Tax”

Moroneau and Turdeau will soon table a “Bragger’s Tax” for people that claim annual income over $100,000 on blog sites.

Blog Host will be obliged to turn over required info to CRA.

#183 Adrian on 11.25.17 at 1:38 am

#149 NoName on 11.24.17 at 10:50 pm

That is absolutely fascinating! Thank you! I found the following Freakonomics podcast about it:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/when-helping-hurts/

I find it especially interesting how the researchers conclude that summer camp settings encourage delinquent behaviour, and the more you go the stronger the effect!

The other two theories the researchers proposed to explain the negative effect were interesting, as well:

“Another theory has a lot of traction to it: that the kids in the program developed a dependence, or a sense of need, so that when the program ended they felt like something they needed wasn’t there or something they valued wasn’t there. What happened was people got a mentor and then at a certain point, they lost the mentor.”

And, “…a third hypothesis theory, and this was really my mom’s favorite theory, though she died before she could test it. But her suspicion was that part of what was happening was fairly privileged mentors, who had values and expectations that well suited their opportunities transferred — not really intentionally, but by osmosis or by modeling or by conversation — those values and expectations to the kids.

“Part of why my mom thinks this is an important hypothesis is she thinks psychology and sociology in general pays too little attention to what explains how people make the decisions they do, why they take certain considerations as reasons and not others. She thinks that process of teaching people what to consider, a reason or a value or a goal, is deeply important to explaining behavior.”

Now there’s a hot-potato idea, that values and expectations suited to one class background may not be well adapted to another…

#184 Dom in Switzerland on 11.25.17 at 1:47 am

285K CHF and 36K in taxes plus 900 a month for health care for the family of 4.

#185 Paid too much on 11.25.17 at 1:49 am

Garth – 2016 results
Gross income (just me): $424k
Taxes Paid: $129k after refund

#186 Blacksheep on 11.25.17 at 1:50 am

1) Never Enough.

2) Always too much.

#187 Bc36 on 11.25.17 at 1:55 am

Single male 36

Total income $98k
Tax paid 18k

Love the blog GT

#188 SHiTTy of vAn-gOObEr on 11.25.17 at 2:44 am

Mr & Mrs Delusional

Total Household income ~ $171,551

Total Tax paid ~ 34,273

#189 Wheaties on 11.25.17 at 3:16 am

262,600/53,000.
Corp/dividends involved.
Self employed, but employ many.
Single M 28.
Working my a$$ off, grey hairs arriving.

#190 Frank on 11.25.17 at 3:17 am

There’s no shame in being rich.

There is a shame in a country with growing wealth disparity. Obviously a feudal style disparity where one ruler owns 99% of the wealth isn’t great for standard of living and communist style where everyone gets the same regardless of effort doesn’t work either. So what’s the goal? How does something around the 50/60s era sound when the middle-class was the largest it’s ever been?

That’s 0.62% of the population. The average tax they paid (before the latest increase) was $160,000. Together this tiny group of people (average age, 52) earn about 10% of all the income but pay 22% of all income taxes. Seems like a good deal for everyone else, but the prime minister says it’s not enough.

It’s telling that the problem you see is that the wealthy are paying 22% of taxes against 10% of income and NOT that 0.62% of people are making 10% of all the income. Which one of those is more disproportionate?

Do the affluent pay their fair share of the tax load?

Compared to historical precedents? No. I’m sorry, it’s hard to hear and paying taxes sucks. But no income inequality is getting worse and trickle-down ‘job creator’ voodoo has proven not to work since Reagan. There is research showing that redistribution is the best method. Look at Nordic countries. Yes their taxes are high (similar to Canada in the 60’s) but they beat us on almost every single quality of life indicator. If that’s not important to you then be honest and simply say “I’ve got mine, I don’t care if our average quality of life is below what it could be, I want to keep more of mine”.

Just admit that you don’t care about low-income quality of life and don’t lie about some libertarian fantasy where cutting your taxes will cure it. That’s intellectual honesty you can reason with. It’s a perfectly fair argument to say you think that today’s level of wealth equity is ideal. I think this isn’t as fair as it could be and I’m willing to pay a bit more.

I’d rather it not be spent on boutique programs with high administration but direct programs like basic income etc.

What did your household earn last year, and what did you surrender in tax?

Earned $210K, handed over about $58K

#191 Anonymous on 11.25.17 at 3:24 am

Gross 2016 family income (2 kids): 172,000
Total tax (after all deductions etc): 22,000

Looking at it, that sounds like we have lots, but for some reason I still don’t feel like we have anything left. We don’t buy stuff, we rent instead of own and still have nothing left to save. Time to do some deep reflection…

#192 GeniusMoney on 11.25.17 at 3:25 am

I think if I said how much I made this year, we’d have people here laugh or cry, and the CRA would establish a special team to chase me down. LOL.

That said, hold your horses, the year isn’t yet and I haven’t quite figured my tally for the tax man. Needless to say I’ll be spending the christmas holidays reading an entire shelf of books on tax avoidance, catching up on Canadian tax treaties with certain Islands, trust structures, updating myself on OECD roadmaps and narrowing down which offshores have near 0% corporate tax… or as the professionals call it “Asset Protection Planning”.

I hesitate paying $500/hr per person to hire the top team at KPMG to figure out the best strategy for me, since they have messed it up several times in the past couple of years for some of their top clients. If anybody has some top notch up to date resources on Canadian tax avoidance, I’ll pay that person a sizable sum in Moneros [anonymous crypto currency, for those wondering]. Be sure to post your receive address along with your post. The amount paid will depend on the quality of the material posted, and whether I already knew that info or not. Dont worry, I’m not a cheap ass, but dont bother posting content that you simply find with a few google searches, I can do that myself.

BTW, since my last post here earlier this week, a large chunk of my crypto portfolio is up 20% (again). Don’t believe me? Look up the price chart of Ethereum for the week it just went from $360 to $460 USD.

I honestly shake my head at all you high intellect people in this blog, making an amazing $200K+/year as high networth professionals, successful business people and no doubt executives of large corporations. You spend so much time trying to figure out how to operate a diversified portfolio to beat the indexes and you all celebrate if you make 10-15% per year on your taxable investments. I mean seriously, I’ve met teenagers now day trading crypto currencies making 3000%+ returns per year. … year after year!

How many more years of 1000%+ returns per year will it take for people to finally start researching and understanding the implications of deflationary currencies without central authorities that can be completely anonymized and traded on decentralized exchanges that can’t be shut down? I will say it again. Crypto Currencies are the biggest transfer of wealth we will see in our generation.

Look, I’m not going to try to pay 0% taxes. I value social services like police, firemen, mostly free healthcare services, cities that are quite safe to live in, with decent infrastructure and overall a culture of people who are for the vast majority quite nice. But, I will also pay what I feel is my fair share, which excludes things like the previous government’s funding of wars, F-35s that cost billions, additional billions in tax subsidies that have propped up housing making it less affordable in the long term, etc. I’m going to weight the good against the bad, then come up with what I feel is a fair amount to pay.

BTW, if the CRA is reading this, don’t even bother.. I’m behind 3 proxies across 2 continents from a VPN paid with anonymous crypto currency, using a ToR browser through the I2P nework through a free wifi from a local cafe without cameras installed. I will admit, latency is a bitch, but you’d have better odds finding Edward Snowden

#193 GeniusMoney on 11.25.17 at 3:29 am

I think if I said how much I made this year, we’d have people here laugh or cry, and the CRA would establish a special team to chase me down. LOL.

That said, hold your horses, the year isn’t yet and I haven’t quite figured my tally for the tax man. Needless to say I’ll be spending the christmas holidays reading an entire shelf of books on tax avoidance, catching up on Canadian tax treaties with certain Islands, trust structures, updating myself on OECD roadmaps and narrowing down which offshores have near 0% corporate tax… or as the professionals call it “Asset Protection Planning”.

I hesitate paying $500/hr per person to hire the top team at KPMG to figure out the best strategy for me, since they have messed it up several times in the past couple of years for some of their top clients. If anybody has some top notch up to date resources on Canadian tax avoidance, I’ll pay that person a sizable sum in Moneros [anonymous crypto currency, for those wondering]. Be sure to post your receive address along with your post. The amount paid will depend on the quality of the material posted, and whether I already knew that info or not. Dont worry, I’m not a cheap ass, but dont bother posting content that you simply find with a few google searches, I can do that myself.

BTW, since my last post here earlier this week, a large chunk of my crypto portfolio is up 20% (again). Don’t believe me? Look up the price chart of Ethereum for the week it just went from $360 to $460 USD.

I honestly shake my head at all you high intellect people in this blog, making an amazing $200K+/year as high networth professionals, successful business people and no doubt executives of large corporations. You spend so much time trying to figure out how to operate a diversified portfolio to beat the indexes and you all celebrate if you make 10-15% per year on your taxable investments. I mean seriously, I’ve met teenagers now day trading crypto currencies making 3000%+ returns per year. … year after year!

How many more years of 1000%+ returns per year will it take for people to finally start researching and understanding the implications of deflationary currencies without central authorities that can be completely anonymized and traded on decentralized exchanges that can’t be shut down? I will say it again. Crypto Currencies are the biggest transfer of wealth we will see in our generation.

Look, I’m not going to try to pay 0% taxes. I value social services like police, firemen, mostly free healthcare services, cities that are quite safe to live in, with decent infrastructure and overall a culture of people who are for the vast majority quite nice. But, I will also pay what I feel is my fair share, which excludes things like the previous government’s funding of wars, F-35s that cost billions, additional billions in tax subsidies that have propped up housing making it less affordable in the long term, etc. I’m going to weight the good against the bad, then come up with what I feel is a fair amount to pay.

BTW, if the CRA is reading this, don’t even bother.. I’m behind 3 proxies across 2 continents from a VPN paid with anonymous crypto currency, using a ToR browser through the I2P nework through a free wifi from a local cafe without cameras installed. I will admit, latency is a bitch, but you’d have better odds finding Edward Snowden

#194 Randy Randerson on 11.25.17 at 3:43 am

Income: $160,000

Tax: ~$30,000

Province: BC

#195 IHCTD9 on 11.25.17 at 6:13 am

#140 Still here on 11.24.17 at 10:06 pm
Tax planning
2015
Line 260 $1,521K
Line 482 $565K
Refund $18K

2016
Line 260 $705K
Line 482 $344K
Refund $45K

See what I did there? And Ontario increased its income tax rate yet had a shortfall in income tax revenue to projections despite a growing economy and employment levels….
————-

…and Trudeau is still trying to figure out what happened.

Excellent work!

#196 wage slave on 11.25.17 at 6:16 am

Total Income $152k
Taxable $145k
Tax paid $44K (NL)

So, 30% in personal income taxes alone.

Lived for brief periods both below the poverty line and as a 1% – but I have no incentive to spend half of my life at work to support a government.

My tax avoidance strategy is to stop working at a highly-taxed full-time job, get my time back, and live a simpler healthier life.

#197 IHCTD9 on 11.25.17 at 6:44 am

#142 Loonie Doctor on 11.24.17 at 10:16 pm

…My wife and I have already discussed it and if this Trudeau crap continues after the next election it is a signal that the public likes the current direction and wants more.

————————————

You can bet on more down the road. Canadians got stupid, Trudeau’s eat the rich platform earned him a majority.

You’re just as screwed if Jagmeet gets in, maybe even more so.

#198 Leichendiener on 11.25.17 at 6:45 am

Fair question to know your audience.
From T4: $142,600 employment income. $39,000 income tax.

I am employed by a private company.

#199 I’m stupid on 11.25.17 at 6:54 am

#142 Loonie doctor

The reason doctors make a bundle is because of the life, social and mental sacrifices.

Let’s examine 2 different situations:

The good doctors earning $700k.
That income probably didn’t start until he was 45 maybe 50. He didn’t finish school until he was in his 30s. Incurred huge student debts, probably didn’t have kids until his mid 30s. How would anyone expect him to be able to retire at 65 if he didn’t make big money?

Now let’s look at a 20 year old kid who gets a job with TTC. If he’s smart he could be retired by 50 with a pension for life and a couple of million invested.

#200 Nick on 11.25.17 at 7:25 am

Income taxes for 2016 for the entire household

Taxable Income: $187,925
Total payable tax: $46,722.88

So almost 25% from my income tax.

#201 NoName on 11.25.17 at 7:41 am

interesting read

https://hackernoon.com/more-than-a-million-pro-repeal-net-neutrality-comments-were-likely-faked-e9f0e3ed36a6

#202 Sadly we don’t know on 11.25.17 at 8:00 am

In top bracket.

Unable to know if considering taxes of all kinds. I’ll accept your following statement which really hurt when I read it:

“To finance this, the average family pays about 43% of its income in taxes of all kinds”

#203 Wrk.dover on 11.25.17 at 8:06 am

When my sole proprietorship was audited by CRA about thirty years ago, I quickly established that I adhered to the amazon model of growth, with low earnings. It appeared that I had understated my expenses and overstated my earnings so the correspondence and phone calls ceased as quickly as they had started and I was put on a do not call list. I was surprised that they never sent some food and warm clothing, maybe they are indeed heartless. I packed it in shortly thereafter to make things for me, not potentially money for me and CRA.

On my $100/month CPP I pay no tax. My wife shifts pension to me from her TPP and CPP and with her OAS we net $4000/mo, of which $2300 is the TPP. When she substitute teaches, she loses 26% to additional tax at that level of income, is my understanding.

The tax I hate is the forgoing of interest on her savings in order for Corps to be able to buy back shares at low interest rates to create fake stock value increases, shored up with the FED Reserve buying every daily dip greater than 1%.

I don’t like the idea of owning stock, with pay level disparity within Corps what it is, along with crap job security and benefits for the workers and golden parachutes for the corporate suite. No one deserves a thousand times more per day than me when I am productive.

So I am stuck with low to no interest, and as much sympathy for my plight as Garth gets for his plight from the masses.

#204 Asian ExPat on 11.25.17 at 8:33 am

Earnings astronomical…..flat 15%…..no testical squeezing social deductions….
No sales tax on anything. Sun shines every day. Cost of living is ridiculously low. No way I’d ever live on Canada. Our stock markets up nearly thirty percent…..and the Canadian dollar is falling. Why are you there? If you have a four year degree you’re guaranteed wealth here.

#205 Walt on 11.25.17 at 8:53 am

Retired couple
Household income $88,656 Tax $9,696 – 10.9%

#206 jess on 11.25.17 at 9:24 am

“Not only is Bermuda’s beneficial ownership register not public, it is also not up-to-date. As the government of Bermuda acknowledges “the current requirement is for such companies to file beneficial ownership information at the time of formation, with no obligation to provide an update”.[1] While proposals have been developed to require companies to keep up-to-date records, for examples when the ownership of the company changes, these are not yet in force.[2]

Rather than misleading the British public about its efforts to tackle tax haven secrecy, Bermuda should stop lobbying the UK government to oppose transparency and recognise that this transparency is vital if it is to clean up its tarnished reputation.

David Burt, the Premier of Bermuda, misled listeners on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme about Bermuda’s efforts to tackle the corporate secrecy that enables tax avoidance, evasion, corruption and money laundering this morning.

In response to the Paradise Papers revelations, he was asked “Your register of ownership is not public, it is secret,” Mr Burt replied “Our register of ownership is public and not secret. The fact is that Bermuda has known who the beneficial owners of our companies have been for over 70 years.”

This is not true. Bermuda does not have a public register of beneficial ownership.

In fact the only people in the UK that can access Bermuda’s beneficial ownership registry is the UK’s National Crime Agency, on request – to which Bermudan authorities usually have 24 hours to respond to.
https://www.globalwitness.org/en/blog/paradise-papers-premier-bermuda-misled-bbc-today-programme-listeners-over-tax-haven-secrecy/

https://fairtaxmark.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/How-Companies-Avoid-Tax.pdf

https://medium.com/@AGSchneiderman/an-open-letter-to-the-fcc-b867a763850a


In May 2017, researchers and reporters discovered that the FCC’s public comment process was being corrupted by the submission of enormous numbers of fake comments concerning the possible repeal of net neutrality rules. In doing so, the perpetrator or perpetrators attacked what is supposed to be an open public process by attempting to drown out and negate the views of the real people, businesses, and others who honestly commented on this important issue. Worse, while some of these fake comments used made up
names and addresses, many misused the real names and addresses of actual people as part of the effort to undermine the integrity of the comment process. That’s akin to identity theft, and it happened on a massive scale….

#207 Dharma Bum on 11.25.17 at 9:30 am

The numbers don’t matter.
We’re taxed way too much, period. There is no “fair share”, because there nothing fair about it in the first place.
The government, and the mental midgets that run it simply squander way too much money on completely useless programs and pseudo-charitable politically driven handouts.
There is no end to the levels of taxation we will face as long as we live in the socialist welfare state. The government has zero restraint when it comes to giving away YOUR money. We will NEVER see tax reform of any sort. There is only one taxation direction: up, uP, UP!
The government needs to STOP SPENDING. NOW!
Just cut it out. CUT-IT-OUT! Know what I mean?
In the meantime, when it comes to your own tax payments: avoid, avoid, avoid. Then avoid some more.
Taxation is theft.
Take care of yourself.
Peace.

#208 Maxima on 11.25.17 at 9:30 am

We are retired middle class workers who have been paying more and additional income taxes for the year during spring tax time in addition to monthly tax deductions. We pay at least 43 percent or more. Don’t mind it as long as other folks are paying their honest, correct share also. I see many who don’t. For example, many Albertans have cottages in BC. They do not rent them but use them purely for family recreation. They write off the mortgages or wrap the mortgage in their business loan to write it off. This is grossly unfair as many other folks abide by the CRA regulations when owning recreational properties. Some of these folks who write off their recreational properties use a numbered company as the owner for tax purposes. I agree when the Liberals are trying to amend these practices. Why should these guys from Alberta get the tax breaks and others don’t?

#209 After Communism on 11.25.17 at 9:40 am

(As a brief aside, the quickest counter-argument I know to the “invisible hand” – the idea that self-interested behaviour *must* result in a pareto-optimal outcome – is the prisoner’s dilemma. Rational self-interest can easily result in sub-optimal outcomes for everyone, which is probably why humans evolved to be pro-social rather than rational.)

Canada’s Christian culture had limited government and liberty because the invisible hand (God) works with decentralised family decision making and extended family social cohesion, not a central powerful single payer making all the decisions and taking half the incomes, so that even a simple knee operation is considered impossible.

Thus your pareto-optimal concern is true only in an anti-Christian, secularist, multicultural milieu. Canada is obviously being managed and justified, in a communist centralised way of thinking to control the competing groups, which are Nash, and worse, other groups, which are anti-pareto (meaning smashing everything to hurt their not-in-group).

For example Trudeau is making it look like $40 billion of housing is for everyone, although now brazen enough to openly admit it is 25% for one in-group: women pitted against another in-group: men, and I think for other in-groups, too.

#210 gattu on 11.25.17 at 9:53 am

Mobility (if you’re up for it) can be exceptionally valuable. We saved substantially with 2 professional salaries in a zero tax country and a bare bones lifestyle for 7-8 years. Immigrated to Canada when our kids got to school age. We expect to save very little additional money for the next several years, because with the high taxes it makes sense for my wife to spend time with the kids in their formative years rather than work. Canada is an exceptional country to raise children, and we are grateful for the opportunity. However at some point kids will go to the US for university and onward in life. Then it will no longer make sense to pay these high taxes. I think my wife and I might again move to a low tax country at that point.

#211 MF on 11.25.17 at 9:55 am

#192 GeniusMoney on 11.25.17 at 3:25 am

Meh I’ve stayed out of the cryptocurrency debate because it looks like a fad to me, like pogs or baseball cards.

There is some irony in your post:

“You spend so much time trying to figure out how to operate a diversified portfolio to beat the indexes and you all celebrate if you make 10-15% per year on your taxable investments. I mean seriously, I’ve met teenagers now day trading crypto currencies making 3000%+ returns per year. … year after year!”

-There it is. The high earning professionals we have on the blog are in that position because most moves they make are calculated using risk vs reward.

1) When someone has spent years building a business or profession, the last thing they want is to waste it all on something they don’t understand.

2) Anyone over the age of 20 realizes that if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. 300% profit in a few months is exactly that.

3) It’s because teenagers living at home are trading crypto that these professionals are staying away. When the mix of traders is the inexperienced, sketchy gangsters, tax cheats, doomers, and massive speculators. Experience says to stay away.

“How many more years of 1000%+ returns per year will it take for people to finally start researching and understanding”

-Nothing goes up forever and no one cares about Estats.

“BTW, if the CRA is reading this, don’t even bother.”

-Nobody cares.

MF

#212 Brett in Calgary on 11.25.17 at 9:58 am

Two income earners:

119K income
95K taxable
16k tax

#213 gattu on 11.25.17 at 10:05 am

It’s a balancing act between professional opportunity, tax levels, cost of living, quality of life and social values. No one country has them all (lived in 3 regions so I have first hand experience). Different things rise in their importance at different life stages. Flexibility and an open mind allows us to make the best of each place depending on circumstances. Multiple passports are a valuable asset. Except a US passport, which taxes you on global income even after you leave the country. Thankfully the Canadian passport doesn’t have that issue (for now).

#214 richard on 11.25.17 at 10:07 am

I maintain, when the government proves it is being fiscally responsible with my tax money, I will be responsible in my reporting.

#215 G on 11.25.17 at 10:16 am

80000 gross + 9500 CCB (kids) – 10000 CPP + Taxes (self employed me and the wife working in our two year old business). also 7000 in property taxes (house + commercial building).

#216 For those about to flop... on 11.25.17 at 10:22 am

This howmuch article is from earlier this year ,and although about America the poll seems to be attracting a different crowd and so I will refrain from embarrassing myself with my Pink Posts and just contribute this.

Have a good weekend…

M43BC

“Believe It or Not – the Richest Americans DO Pay Most of the Federal Income Tax

Thank God for the 1%. That much-maligned minority, the richest percent of Americans, pay 39.5% of all Federal Income Tax. That is one of the most eye-catching figures in a study released by the Tax Foundation earlier this month. To put that percentage in absolute figures: the richest percent of American taxpayers pay in $542.64 billion of a total take of Federal Income Tax of $1.37 trillion.

As this data visualization clearly shows, the top 1% pay much more than taxpayers of any other income level.
It is almost double as much as the next bracket of top incomes: those earning the 2% to 5% of the highest wages in America pay 20.5% of all Federal Income Tax. Or in absolute terms: $281.51 billion.
It is also almost four times as much as those whose incomes range from the top 6% to 10%. They pay 10.9% of Federal Income Tax, or $149.97 billion.
Those who earn between the top 10% to 25% of wages in America are a much larger group; yet their collective input into the Federal Income Tax is only half as much again as the previous band: 15.9% (i.e. $281.55 billion).
Those with an income anywhere between the top 25% and 50% only pay 10.5% of all Federal Income Tax, no more than $143.95 billion.
The entire bottom half of wage earners pays only 2.8% of its income in taxes into the federal coffers. In actual money terms: $37.74 billion. That is more than 14 times less than the top 1%, even though this group is 50 times as numerous.
These figures show the level of contribution to total income tax revenues by the various income levels. The Tax Foundation also provided figures for what that means for individual taxpayers in each group.

For the richest 1%, the effective average tax rate is 27.2%, meaning that well over a quarter of their income goes into federal coffers.
For the next group (up to 5%), the fiscal pressure is just below a quarter: 23.6%.
Taxpayers with incomes in the top 10% part with just over one-fifth (21.3%) of their earnings.
Those in the top 25% bracket contribute 17.8% of their annual income.
Even those up to the 50th percentile on average still give 15.5% of their annual income to Uncle Sam.
Because about 45% of American households make too little to pay any Federal Income Tax, the average percentage for the bottom half of incomes is dramatically lower – the average Federal Income tax level for this group is just 3.5%.
Nobody likes paying taxes, and all taxpayers agree that everyone who contributes to the national purse should have some say in how the government raises and spends its money. But in this debate, whose voice should be louder: that of the majority at the bottom of the income scale (who contribute the least) or of the minority of biggest contributors (who fork out the most)? Simply put, that question is the foundation of all politics in a capitalist democracy like ours.”

https://howmuch.net/articles/high-income-americans-pay-majority-of-federal-taxes

#217 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 10:28 am

@#135 BillyBob
“Can’t afford Canada. Left.
Gross Income (2016) including housing allowance: $264,000.
Tax: 0%
Net Income: $264,000
Dubai, UAE….”

+++++

Well Done!
But is it true that the sand gets…….everywhere?

#218 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 10:35 am

@#151 Leaving the country
“With the attack on small businesses and increase in tax rates we are leaving Canada in 2018 and moving to Singapore. We’ll pay no more than 20% and get all the benefits that we do in Canada.”
+++++++

With the exception of Wrigley’s Spearmint Gum….

https://www.google.ca/url?url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewing_gum_ban_in_Singapore&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwij19_DhtrXAhWLs1QKHQxEC1QQFggcMAI&usg=AOvVaw3ApIElZ6–YEaCCq9HTWCc

#219 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 10:45 am

@#165 MF
““We are going to CUT the size of Govt by 15%” – will win by a landslide…..

-Along with a corresponding cut in services too right?”
********

Nah.
The cut in “services” is aready there due to the sloth , inefficiency and waste.
I’m particularly enjoying the appropriately named civil service “Pheonix” payroll system that is imploding.

How many beaurocrats sat in how many 1000’s of meetings pushing emails or paper back and forth discussing the new and improved system that is so bad it should be immediately scrapped?

Karma.

Cut 50% of “civil” servants and maybe , just maybe the other 50% might suddenly realize how they had good jobs with great benefits and pensions that were worth keeping…..but I doubt it.

Tax increases to keep the debt bandwagon rolling right towards the cliff……

#220 Anon on 11.25.17 at 10:48 am

Approximately $17K income tax on $90K of taxable income.

#221 SquareNinja on 11.25.17 at 10:51 am

Canada is a socialist country, with a tax system closer to that in Scandinavian countries than to the USA. If you’re rich, want to keep more of your wealth and enjoy the benefits of vast income disparity, it’s easy enough for you… Paradise Papers, anyone?

Personally, I’d rather give up more of my wealth and enjoy living in a more equal society. After all, my success and the success of others is attributable in a major way to the contribution of society in general and also to luck.

#222 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 10:54 am

@#170 anonymous
“I have been following you for years now and i think, you are stupid….”
+++++++

Call me Ishmael …..but could you be a tad more specific on whom you think is stupid?
Or is breathing and typing asking too much?

#223 Cheese on 11.25.17 at 10:56 am

Most of the posters here pay more in taxes than I earn in a year, most are multiples of that value….

36 yo making 30k…

like Camus said
“either commit suicide, or get a cup of coffee”

I dont think I should read these polls, they put me in a low place.

#224 MF on 11.25.17 at 10:59 am

202 Asian ExPat on 11.25.17 at 8:33 am

One word: stability. Let’s hope that people who have dual citizenship are denied re entry during the next third world coup when they come running.

MF

#225 Spacc on 11.25.17 at 11:23 am

Eternal bachelor

Employment income $28k (about the average)
Dividends/Investment income $19k
Realized Cap gains $69K
Cap gain distributions $1,500
RRSP Contribution $16k

Total Taxes Payable incl. $2,400 CPP: $12k

#226 Keith on 11.25.17 at 11:25 am

Politicians fiddle with the tax system, but that is overwhelmed by larger trends in the economy. The reality is the largest chunk of Canadian population has had little in the way of increases in real income for decades. People on the minimum wage and welfare have had their benefits frozen from time to time. In BC the minimum wage was frozen for a decade, so the wheel of inflation probably cut the wage by 30%.

So the higher income brackets are paying the brunt of the income taxes, because they are getting all of the pay increases. The unfairness is balanced however, by the governments enthusiastic use of fees, sales/property taxes and politicized ferry and hydro rates to skillfully extract revenue from those who earn less.

People are comfortable handing over 30 – 35% of their income to the government. Once you spend a working class paycheque, you are out at least 30% in income taxes, fees and GST. Studies have shown the more you tax higher income people, the more they will employ a tax lawyer to reduce their taxes down to that 30 – 35% level. For them the flat fees and other taxes are far less significant than for working Canadians.

Interesting to note there are some pretty high family incomes here that are paying about 20%, presumably by exercising RRSP and other legal deductions. I think for Canadians that are concerned about their income tax, there is a reasonable amount of legal relief, if you choose to exercise it. I wish the TFSA had been around thirty years ago.

For those who despise the cost of a civilized society, you can always leave. The moaning about government waste is a bit of a laugh for those of use who have worked for a large private sector corporation. You would be shocked at the lack of difference. You should read Kevin O’Learys first book when he sells his software company to Mattel and has to work there. The culture he describes sounds a lot like a government bureaucracy.

#227 MF on 11.25.17 at 11:32 am

crowdedelevatorfartz on 11,

No. Cut the outrageous benefits like the Cctb or this stupid housing initiative. They are the real drain on revenue.

Also, cut the wasteful UN contributions. They are worthless.

Don’t think the call centre employee earning 30k/year is the problem, sorry.

MF

#228 MF on 11.25.17 at 11:35 am

Gattu,

So basically you come, use the educational system, health care system then leave?

One, this is a case for having Canadian passports taxed like crazy.

Two, my friends who went to the US to study came right back after they were done.

MF

#229 n1tro on 11.25.17 at 11:40 am

$95K income
$30K in taxes

#230 Ms. Money on 11.25.17 at 11:52 am

I’ll bite. Business owning 1%er here.

On the personal side:

317,000 income
124,000 tax

#231 Randy Randerson on 11.25.17 at 11:59 am

#202 Asian ExPat on 11.25.17 at 8:33 am

Sounds like Hong Kong. Love the city, but can’t tolerate the working hours and the summer heat+humidity.

#232 Drill Baby Drill on 11.25.17 at 12:14 pm

Married
me; $230K, taxes $75K
wife; $90K (DB pension), taxes $32K

Total taxes (not including muni) $107K/year

#233 Fake News Again on 11.25.17 at 12:15 pm

#164 MF on 11.24.17 at 11:38 pm
Why would anon people do that? – Garth

Because they are anonymous. Nothing can be verified. You can get a reaction out of others, maintain your online persona/reputation, feel better about yourself and have fun doing it I guess? Basically troll.

That said, there are a lot of posters are truthful and that’s why I have been reading for years.

#160 Fake News Again on 11.24.17 at 11:24 pm

“We are going to CUT the size of Govt by 15%” – will win by a landslide…..

-Along with a corresponding cut in services too right?

MF
___________________________

Thank you for clarifying the 100% night and day difference in Govt vs the Private Sector. Somehow through some “miracle from God” humans in the private sector can cut staff and still maintain 100% service…..

Yet Govt can not…….

#234 Dissident on 11.25.17 at 12:23 pm

#182 Lost…but not leased on 11.25.17 at 1:18 am
FYI: Legal Notice of “Bragger’s Tax”

Moroneau and Turdeau will soon table a “Bragger’s Tax” for people that claim annual income over $100,000 on blog sites.

Blog Host will be obliged to turn over required info to CRA.

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Bahahaha!

#235 MF on 11.25.17 at 12:30 pm

Fake news again

If you want to talk about federal employees, there was recently mass layoffs in a Toronto call center. All of the staff let go was on contract (aka everyone hired in the last 15 years).

Looks like you have been reading some fake news published in 1997.

And I work in the public sector. Lol @ you if you believe it’s 100% efficient and everyone works hard.

MF

#236 LivinLarge on 11.25.17 at 12:34 pm

Genius “BTW, if the CRA is reading this, don’t even bother.. I’m behind 3 proxies across 2 continents from a VPN paid with anonymous crypto currency, using a ToR browser through the I2P nework through a free wifi from a local cafe without cameras installed. I will admit, latency is a bitch, but you’d have better odds finding Edward Snowden”…first, even I know where Snowden is and second, CRA doesn’t even remotely have the staff nor the talent to bother chasing any one individual so you might as well relax your efforts to hide. Somewhere in your ether you’ve typed in a valid email address somewhere, sometime.

You can spend hours trying to hide but if no one is actually looking then you’re spinning your wheels.

Most people posting here are absolutely typical Canadians. If someone they have never personally met or vetted asks them to divulge their gross and net incomes they gladly do it on the assurance of annonymity but type in a valid email address to do it.

#237 ANON in ON on 11.25.17 at 12:36 pm

Retired Couple: $97.7/$12.8k/Effective Rate 13.1%

#238 Vampire studies GMST on 11.25.17 at 12:40 pm

192 genius money – thanks v much for the video links a few days back. Senate hearing very enlightening. Speaker did note however the presence of approx 500 working crypto currencies which will be very volatile for some time yet.

For that reason I am out (for now). Very interested in blockchain technology however.

#239 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 12:45 pm

#@231 fake News
“Thank you for clarifying the 100% night and day difference in Govt vs the Private Sector. Somehow through some “miracle from God” humans in the private sector can cut staff and still maintain 100% service…..

Yet Govt can not…….
++++++++

Well since govt is usually grossly overstaffed and underworked.
Yes. They should be able to provide the same level of service with a loss of 15% of staff.
Dont believe me.
Go on unpaid leave and get a similar job in the private sector.
Half the staff doing twice the work for less money, no union protection, dreadful benefits, no pension and no job security.
Then, after a year ( if you last that long without quitting, stress leaving, or being fired) go back to your govt job and tell your co workers what the real world is like.

#240 interesting on 11.25.17 at 12:46 pm

Earnings astronomical…..flat 15%…..no testical squeezing social deductions….
No sales tax on anything. Sun shines every day. Cost of living is ridiculously low. No way I’d ever live on Canada. Our stock markets up nearly thirty percent…..and the Canadian dollar is falling. Why are you there? If you have a four year degree you’re guaranteed wealth here.

………..

hmm, well, for me, id NEVER live in Asia. Certainly not in China. Boggles my mind how people go to live there.

#241 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 12:48 pm

@#225 MF
“Don’t think the call centre employee earning 30k/year is the problem, sorry…..”
*******

Canadian Govt employees work in Call Centers for 30k per year?
Where?
Mumbai?

#242 Rooskie on 11.25.17 at 12:49 pm

2016 Total Household Income: $183K
2016 Taxable Household Income: $151K
2016 Total Household Income Tax Paid: $27K

Unusual year, made substantial RRSP contributions and had a rather large medical expense deduction.

#243 Leo Trollstoy on 11.25.17 at 12:58 pm

Won’t post. But household income more than what I’ve read here so far

Did mark get a job after nortel yet?

#244 Exilled on 11.25.17 at 1:06 pm

Sir Garth:

If I can be so bold, to ask why Income Sprinking should not be allowed for every tax paying Canadian?

Would it not only end unemployment, and create more jobs?

That everybody could do it, it would put the basement dwelling people to work? Doing anything that could be rated as work.

Or as it works no work! If the parents want their kid to be a professional couch warmer, that is what they are being paid for.

I see no down side to this.

If the people have the money then let them spend it as they feel.

If every body does this then there will be unemployment.

The rest of the ” Tax ” breaks should be the same for everybody. Nobody gets a break.

This fairness could be a good thing.

Okay open the flood gates!!

#245 Exilled on 11.25.17 at 1:08 pm

Sorry I meant NO unemployment!!

#246 Stan Brooks on 11.25.17 at 1:28 pm

Fair share means nothing.

Fair to whom, the clueless T2, the lying BM, Wynne or the Ontario Human Rights court?

It sure ain’t fair for me.
Anything above 30 % total tax, including income tax and HST is a theft as surely I am not getting even the equivalent of 10 % of my tax contributions back in services.

I even have to pay for my passport!
It is time to tax the elite. not the upper middle class.

#247 MF on 11.25.17 at 1:33 pm

#239 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.25.17 at 12:48 pm

The GTA.

What they do is advertise 50k/year but drop shifts and change hours based on call volume (which is always high).

30k might have been a little low, maybe it’s 35k after all is said and done.

MF

#248 MF on 11.25.17 at 1:38 pm

#238 interesting on 11.25.17 at 12:46 pm

Usually it’s someone who couldn’t cut it in Canada, or the US (or any western country). They will blame the country and whine and complain about “taxes” instead of themselves.

It’s similar to a MLB player who can’t cut it in the majors, but hits 50 homeruns in triple A.

MF

#249 For those about to flop... on 11.25.17 at 1:55 pm

Pink Pumpkin Update.

Well,I just spent an hour or so further analyzing that Thinkpol article that a couple of people asked me to check out.

As I wrote the other day I have presented some of the cases here and perhaps also of note I have cases in my folder that were not on that list.

As lengthy as it was, it appears to be incomplete.

Anyway the main point of this post ,is that when I was cross checking the information I noticed that one of the houses had just sold and I will present it just in case a realtor wants to have their say as to what happened.

The details…

5161 Trafalgar st,Vancouver.

Purchased for 2.8 million on 21st October 2015.

Asking 3.33

Sold on November 14th 2017 for ???

So they held the property/ investment for two years with an annualized ROI of 9.21% according to Thinkpol.

This number appears to be before expenses.

Highly unlikely they took a loss, but the Vancouver real estate market is a 12,000 piece puzzle and this is just one piece that needs to be put in its place.

This listing would have been placed in my Possible Pinkies Folder( chasing a 10/20% gain)without much to support it.

I’ve got some of the answers ,but I will keep asking the questions on behalf of the people on the blog that are interested in transparency in the marketplace…

M43BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/5161-trafalgar-street

#250 rc99ar on 11.25.17 at 2:06 pm

I find income taxes so offensive. The waste of forcing someone who makes $30k to file and pay $3k in income taxes after all their HST, excise, and property taxes. We need to take tax policy away from politicians and give it to economists. Elect politicians to distribute the wealth, not decide how to collect it in the most inefficient and biased matter possible. A bigger pie and we can all eat more.
Full disclosure
Line 150 – 107k
Line 435 – 25k

#251 Sunshine on 11.25.17 at 2:07 pm

Dual income earned around $165k with taxes of around $33k

#252 Anon again on 11.25.17 at 2:11 pm

181,500 gross income (incl, spouse & investment)
35,000 income tax
9,000 sales tax (estimate)
2,500 property tax

TFSA & RRSP, typically max contributions

#253 0.62%-er and wife on 11.25.17 at 2:19 pm

Two middle-aged full-timers in Ontario with group RRSPs and lots of unused RRSP contribution room from lesser earning/mortgage paying years that now comes in handy:

Total income 361K (241+120)
Total income tax deducted 115K
Combined Refund 45.5K

#254 not a bragger on 11.25.17 at 2:25 pm

yawn . .just a bragging scene ….

i won’t divulge my financial good fortune

except to say i have chosen time over money .. so grateful

so of course no one who is working 3 jobs at minimum pay will be here on this page .. sigh

#255 TRT on 11.25.17 at 2:30 pm

USER Pay for EVERYTHING!

Health, Education, Care Homes, etc.

Lower taxes.

Only benefit is a Universal Basic Income

Flat tax

Lease out (Nationalize) Natural Resources, Telecom frequencies, etc.

Immigration at G7 average.

#256 Gravy Train on 11.25.17 at 2:31 pm

#108 crowdedelevator on 11.24.17 at 8:34 pm
“An electrician and a millwright……”

Also check out an electrician and a plumber! :)

#257 lol on 11.25.17 at 2:44 pm

Won’t post. But household income more than what I’ve read here so far

……..

Of course it is, you’re the best.

you didn’t know that?

#258 mathman on 11.25.17 at 2:47 pm

Me + spouse

~$275 gross

~ $62 k in taxes paid

I make the majority and made a huge RSP contribution. I was saving the RSP room for when I sold some stock with large unrealized capital gains but decided enough was enough, and T2 is not getting my money.

Doing the same this year!

Garth is absolutely right here. I’m not rich by any stretch, didn’t have a dime till I was 30 – spent 25- 30 or the first 5 years of my career paying off undergrad and grad school.

So at almost 40 we rent, 2 kids and not balling (400K investments) but taxed like a baller. Whilst at the same time people who contribute very little and take, take all while sitting in 7 figure homes pay fractions of what we do.

this government is not positioning us to be competitive going forward.

Math

#259 Julie K. on 11.25.17 at 2:49 pm

Scanned ~ 50% of the comments and numbers.

Not a single mention of anyone paying capital gains from sale of investment or recreational real estate in 2016?

Really?

#260 Lost...but not leased on 11.25.17 at 2:58 pm

#247 for those about to flop.

The Trafalgar house is interesting…
Not sure when built…but it appears to be of the style built for Hong Kong expatriates in late 1980’s early 1990’s.

These are approaching 30 years of age, hence what is the depreciation ?

May soon see these be demolished for the new generation of homes.

#261 jess on 11.25.17 at 3:13 pm

too many : too few is an understatement here “uber sharing for bikes”

China’s cycle hire startups allowed users to unlock GPS-enabled bikes with their smartphone, and drop them off anywhere without the need to park it at a dock.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/25/chinas-bike-share-graveyard-a-monument-to-industrys-arrogance#img-1

#262 Bottoms_Up on 11.25.17 at 3:21 pm

0.62% of population earned 10% of all income. And ONLY paid 22% of all tax.

So 99.38% of the population has to share the remaining 90% of income.

You are free to earn more. — Garth

#263 in seclusion on 11.25.17 at 3:25 pm

although I am a semi regular poster, I prefer to remain anonymous.
under those circumstances, I will confess that I own my own business. We took over the business from my parents.
I have got up early and went to work for 30 years.
I take advantage of all legal tax allowances available to my business.
Income splitting with my spouse.
Depreciating capital assets and rolling stock.
employing family members.
I also admit to sometimes using the business for personal purposes.
I drive a company vehicle to the coffee shop.
the business pays for insurance, gas, and repairs to that vehicle.
I write off more than the 10% of my home office expenses.
I am out of the country on holidays 4 weeks per year.
We have a boat. (against my better judgement)
I drive a goldwing (sorry Garth)
For the past 10 years my partner/ spouse and I have paid little or no income tax. We have no reportable income. She does not work outside of the business.
She stayed home and raised our family, often while I worked late.
I have worked at some of the dirtiest, stinkiest, cruel jobs that you can imagine.
We drive new vehicles, and live in a nice large home.
We cannot make use of an RSP, and have no health insurance. My CPP will be minimal because we have little income.
We have put all our kids through post secondary education, and still have a modest RESP to deal with.
All the money we make, gets spent into the economy as business expenses, or invested into unregistered investments and modest TFSAs.
The business has capital assets in excess of several million dollars, and zero debt.
We make use of corporate tax rules.

None of my kids are interested in taking over the business (yet).
We have rental properties.
Also, if a person has money, they have benefits to live more efficient lives. We have a COSTO membership. We can buy our needs in bulk. TP costs 1/2 what my low income tenant pays. the same for groceries, living expenses, insurance (because it is bundled), I can afford LED lights to lower the hydro bill.
Our cell phones are a business expense.
Since we are low income, my last kid in school gets a tuition grant. I get the HST benefit cheque, and the trillium benefit. My accountant fees are deducted.
Over the past 30 years, we have literally spent millions back into the economy in goods and services. We have sacrificed, scrimped and saved. We have built this business from a wasteland into a viable, profitable business property. I strongly reject accusations of being a tax cheat, or not paying our fair share.
We are now enjoying the fruit of our labour.
Travel, nicer restaurants, better gifts for the kids,
and driving a vehicle not held together with duct tape.
There you have it.

#264 SoggyShorts on 11.25.17 at 3:34 pm

#246 MF on 11.25.17 at 1:38 pm
#238 interesting on 11.25.17 at 12:46 pm

Usually it’s someone who couldn’t cut it in Canada, or the US (or any western country). They will blame the country and whine and complain about “taxes” instead of themselves.

It’s similar to a MLB player who can’t cut it in the majors, but hits 50 homeruns in triple A.

MF
*****************************************
Have you tried living in Asia? I was there teaching ESL for 2005/6, and it was amazing. Beautiful people, country and everything was sooo cheap.

Since we have no kids, we certainly plan to retire overseas. With the cost of living being 70% less it’s a no brainer.
Last trip we took to Asia we stayed at a place nicer than most “5 star” resorts in Mexico for $20 a night. They told us to book directly with them next time and it would go down to $12.
For the price of your average SFD in Van/TO you could have a mansion with STAFF for 30 years in some asian countries.
Or if you look at it another way, take whatever retirement plan you have and shave 10-15 years off it since you need so much less money over there. 10 Years of your life before you are old and frail is a HUGE win.

So no, it’s not just for “those who can’t hack it in the big league”…..

#265 Spacc on 11.25.17 at 3:36 pm

::::::#221 Cheese on 11.25.17 at 10:56 am
:::Most of the posters here pay more in taxes than I earn in a year, most
:::are multiples of that value….
:::I dont think I should read these polls, they put me in a low place.

Yeah, I’m pretty surprised how around the $100k level seems ho-hum here. If I went back fully into the rat race I would probably have to sell my soul to make around 3/4 of that. I suspect a lot of commenters here are most likely not the average person’s peer–mature professionals, partners, presidents, doctors, people leveraging the work of a staff, inherited property etc.

#266 Smoking Man on 11.25.17 at 3:47 pm

Got the work visa. Good by Cunkstan.

Another savage road trip to the heart of Libralism.
365 day flip flop climate. I just have to keep my mouth shut.

#267 WELLWELLWELL on 11.25.17 at 3:51 pm

hey Garth,

Looks like your readers are all top 5% earners…No wonder they like conservatives and hate liberals lol.

#268 Gravy Train on 11.25.17 at 4:03 pm

I only look at my taxes once a year—and couldn’t be bothered looking up the figures—but suffice it to say that most of my income for 2016 was tax-free or -deferred (unrealized capital gains, tax credits on grossed-up eligible dividends in my non-registered account, RRSPs, TFSAs, CCA tax shield on rental property, etc.).

#269 Steven Rowlandson on 11.25.17 at 4:04 pm

Have I paid my fair share this year? So far I earned almost $8500 helping to build stairs and paid tax buying gas to go to work and I live in my car and in church depending on the time of year. Do you really think I qualify to pay income tax let alone live in Canada?

#270 Steven Rowlandson on 11.25.17 at 4:25 pm

Re #254
“Usually it’s someone who couldn’t cut it in Canada, or the US (or any western country). They will blame the country and whine and complain about “taxes” instead of themselves.”

If one is making the effort to earn a living and isn’t making it due to actions done by others then blaming oneself is not justified. You assign credit or discredit where it is due and if you have a functional unbiased justice system you use it if you can and if you have the same kind of media you use it also while trying to avoid giving opportunities to criminals and financial vampires. The blame and punishment must be assigned to the offenders otherwise you have a paradise for criminals.

#271 The Management on 11.25.17 at 5:03 pm

As the owners and operators of a small incorporated business, we paid ourselves $226800 as salary, put $20K each into RRSPs and paid just under $40K in tax. Plus another $5k in employers CPP because as business owners you get to pay both sides!

We work hard and also spent several years scraping by and eating into savings with no RRSP contributions to get the business to where it is today. But we also feel pretty fortunate and we donated around $8K via the business to charities that help with homelessness and mental health issues – kinda voluntary self-directed taxation! Hope to do a bit more this year.

I don’t mind paying reasonable taxes to live in a free first world country. I do mind my PM suggesting that we might be tax cheats just for working hard to start a business while himself and his multi-millionaire buddies pull every tax avoidance stunt in the book. Do as we say not as we do…?

#272 Mike on 11.25.17 at 6:42 pm

I earned $97K as a civil servant. I’m not sure how much tax I paid, but I had few if any deductions.

I feel there is a problem with your statistics. You cited a percentage of people who earned enough to be in the top bracket and the amount of tax they paid. I believe there are many more people who earned this much, but found means to avoid having it recorded as income and thus were not included in the group you cited.

#273 Russ on 11.25.17 at 7:43 pm

Julie K. on 11.25.17 at 2:49 pm

Scanned ~ 50% of the comments and numbers.

Not a single mention of anyone paying capital gains from sale of investment or recreational real estate in 2016?

Really?
====================

Try comment #250. It includes investment income.
A few of the retired guys comments also mention total as including investment income.

Maybe read more carefully, without conformation bias?

#274 McStee on 11.25.17 at 7:48 pm

Gross: $78,000
Tax Paid/Owed: $12,700

#275 M on 11.25.17 at 8:37 pm

Gross 98K
Robbed by close to 25K in tx every year.

However I play dirty in TFSA speculating like a pro and pigging high 6 figures. Started 3 years ago with 40k.
I expect I will be raided in my TFSA acct at some point.

#276 Butcher on 11.25.17 at 8:38 pm

2 earners $145K
4 kids
$30k tax
$30k rrsp

#277 M on 11.25.17 at 8:42 pm

..sorry..I meant 35K in tx

#278 Dee on 11.25.17 at 9:44 pm

$132,500 in gross income, $35,876 in tax.

#279 Rajput on 11.25.17 at 10:12 pm

128000 Gross income I made 103000 the wife’s maternity leave made up the difference. Paid close to $30000 in federal/provincial income tax, this number also includes CPP and EI deductions.

Best way to reduce tax burden is have a large family, thats my plan!

#280 gattu on 11.25.17 at 11:20 pm

@MF #226, pity you see it that way. My kids go to private school, so we’re not using the public school system. We moved them after a year in a “top rated” (8.5 on Fraser) public school, and won’t be going back. Even if hypothetically we send them to public schools, we contribute substantially more in taxes than we are getting in return. I’m not complaining, we knew Canada was high tax when we decided to immigrate.

Good for your friends if they’re happy coming back to Canada after studying in the US, but I can tell you not everyone feels that way. My wife and I went to graduate school in the US, and worked in NYC for several years. We left because we were earning well, but not saving as much with high taxes. We still consider NYC home (though we don’t have US passports), and may go back at some point if the right opportunity presents itself. For some this will seem like opportunism and lack of loyalty to any country. In the business world however, this is international experience and is highly valued.

My point is a simple numbers-driven one: during the accumulation phase in one’s career, taxes play havoc with savings. Let’s say you earn $200k as a couple, spend $100k in living expenses, pay $80k in taxes, then your savings are $20k. If you earn the same $200k in Dubai, spend the same $100k, but pay zero taxes, your savings are $100k. So you save FIVE TIMES as much each year in Dubai. Do this for a few years, and your financial security is dramatically different.

—-
MF #226

Gattu,

So basically you come, use the educational system, health care system then leave?

One, this is a case for having Canadian passports taxed like crazy.

Two, my friends who went to the US to study came right back after they were done.

MF
—-

#281 Big Bucks on 11.26.17 at 9:53 am

So 270,000 people in Canada(about half the population of London,On)pay 1/4 of all the tax collected?That is crazy!If many of them pack up and leave the middle class will really be screwed(we’ll see howthey like paying 50,60 or 70% tax)

#282 HaHaHa on 11.26.17 at 12:57 pm

wealth survey response earnings…. 54 years old…. railroad wage 140,000/ wife stays home. Paid off bungalow. Only one ever bought and will probably die in( big reason for wealth) Investment portfolio over 250,000(thanx for the pot Justin) Retiring in six months. Defined benefit plan. Down to 60,000 per year. I can’t help it…..Canadians are stupid

#283 Slightly Bent on 11.26.17 at 1:34 pm

This year so far (as an employee)

$225K in income
$110 in income tax deducted, not counting CPP/UIC.

Very, VERY close to packing up and leaving this country. Not worth the effort to drive that salary anymore.

#284 iwill on 11.26.17 at 2:33 pm

$970K gross
Paid $435K in taxes.

#285 Doug in London on 11.26.17 at 2:41 pm

So yes, as we can see the benevolent government is going to spend more and more and more and more in the year to come. As mentioned, some of the increased costs will be paid for with greater taxation, but what if that still doesn’t cover it all? That means this benevolent government will have to borrow more money. Governments borrowing more money? Who ever heard of such a thing? If that happens, it means an increased demand for borrowed money. Just think of what that could do to interest rates. Oh, maybe I’m wrong, according to many “experts” who post here interest rates will NEVER go up.

#286 under the radar on 11.26.17 at 4:38 pm

my handle says it all.

#287 Anon on 11.27.17 at 9:25 am

460K for the household, 2 incomes, 1 kid. 180k ish in taxes. Maxed RRSP, TSFAs, and RESP

Going off memory, but that’s pretty close.

#288 Rebs on 11.27.17 at 10:14 am

So far this year, my pay stub says: income $58K,
Tax deducted (Federal and QC): $15,800 (that’s right, no typos)

I usually have about 5K in rrsp contributions so am expecting a refund, but it basically makes me sick each time I look at my pay stub. Don’t complain so easily unless you live in QC k?

This will be my husband’s first year self-employed (first 3 months salaried) and is at about $65K gross, but he will at least have some good deductions and those first three months’ deductions. After seeing how his first tax return goes in April, we’ll be able to do some better tax planning for 2018.

We are DINKS, healthy, no drug-use or mental health issues, so we do not use available social infrastructure very much.

#289 Rebs on 11.27.17 at 10:15 am

PS – I love Costco too.

#290 Atrate on 11.27.17 at 1:16 pm

Income: $108,400
Income Tax: $ 20,347.51