Unleashed

Being paleo, I’m no Bitcoin buddy. But you can’t ignore this thing. There’s a growing mob of people convinced the future of money will not be like the past. No fiat currency. No central banks, No government controls. No interest rates. No printing presses. No cash tied to political decisions or interference. As a result Bitcoin, and other rival cryptocurrencies, have spawned a Wild West of finance. Compared to this, real estate in Toronto or Vancouver is a giant, boring, brain-dead GIC.

The latest news comes as Bitcoin advanced to $8,000 US. That’s a 700% gain this year, taking the total value of the invisible, digital, unbankable currency to $130 billion. Along the way there has been extreme volatility – three recent plunges of 25% each, enough too freak out even the most iron-gutted investor.

Despite this, the number of supporters is ramping up daily. Surprisingly, now the doomers have signed on. Some people say Bitcoin is sucking off a lot of support from the traditional hedge-against-paper-money, which is gold.

Wow. Look at this chart. Gold’s comatose. Bitcoin is on fire.

Of course, why someone who thinks the world might blow up would put all their faith in money that only exists if you have a good Internet connection and a charged-up phone is curious. Our gossamer grid might be the first piece of infrastructure to fail. Go figure.

But the appeal of digital money to those who trust no elected person, national government, central banker or multinational, globalist corporation is obvious. Bitcoins are hard to mine, unlike the way the US government prints trillions of dollars, for example, or the Fed simply balloons its balance sheet. A limited supply is intended to maintain value – but it also means when demand for the stuff increases (like now) the worth of each digital unit inflates wildly.

Bitcoin isn’t actually money you can possess and hoard. Instead your pile is kept in a virtual wallet forming part of an online payments network which is completely decentralized. That’s called the blockchain – at the heart of the up-yours mentality which created digital currency. Anonymous. Sovereign. Free.

Bitcoiners (and the lovers of other forms now rivaling it) look at the way the world almost went off a cliff during the credit crisis and have decided they want nothing to do with a system that can ricochet, domino-like into utter mayhem. At least that was the genesis. Now speculators, traders and institutions are piling on, with the smell of quick profits in their nostrils.

Next month, for example, Bitcoin futures will start trading on the world’s biggest exchange. There are now bitcoins backed by gold. Could it be long before we see one tied to dollars? Will digital money ultimately be co-opted by global financial institutions who themselves are looking for relief from capricious national governments and paternalistic central banks? With free trade having broken barriers everywhere, a single protectionist leader like Trump has the potential to wreak havoc. Maybe non-political, uncontrollable, non-inflationary money is the answer – freed from the jerking around that one nation’s interest rate policy can create.

So, yes, Bitcoin has a future. But we’re not there yet. And investing in it poses extreme risk.

The very thing that attracts – the absence of manipulation – is what also makes digital money toxic to average investors. Fiat currency (the stuff we use every day to finance our lives) is tightly controlled by central banks to smooth out wild gyrations affecting its value. They do this by expanding or contracting the overall money supply, adjusting the cost of money (interest rates), actively fighting inflation and deflation and working with governments to issue and control public debt. Just look at what the Fed has done since 2008. Astonishing. And witness what an engineered collapse in interest rates did to Canadian housing prices. Stunning.

As a paleo, bitcoins are not in my portfolio. The volatility’s too much. The downside too great. But this week the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board revealed it has a staff of 100 people watching, analyzing and possibly preparing to jump in.

Imagine that. Your CPP dollars, out there, braless, untamed, astride blistering neurons with survivalists and nomads. Now I need a scotch.

200 comments ↓

#1 Snoopy on 11.20.17 at 5:40 pm

It is impossible to imagine someone else writing so humorously, intelligently, thoughtfully, stridently, iconoclastically and, most importantly, for free for so long. Thank you.

#2 Linda on 11.20.17 at 5:43 pm

I’m not sure how I feel about CPP piling into Bitcoin. However, back in the day with Bre-X (anyone remember that one?) the work related pension plan I belong to had actually purchased shares – thankfully sold before the house of cards came tumbling down. So, is Bitcoin the future? Or the web version of Bre-X? How can one tell, especially someone who isn’t the most techno-savvy person on the planet? And if this thing is the future, will there be an ETF fund filled with crypto-currencies, or is this already a reality?

#3 CryptoSkeptic on 11.20.17 at 5:46 pm

Nothing wrong with CPP allocating a small portion of its portfolio to crypto if it is doing responsible due diligence. I think the whole thing is a scam but our pensions won’t go up in smoke over a point or two in something that appears to be game changing.

Just think of it as insurance and save your scotch for the next election.

#4 Pete on 11.20.17 at 5:48 pm

Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Every ponzi scheme looks like it has value only because people believe in it. It’s worthless. It doesn’t earn anything and you can’t making anything with it like you could wirh gold. It’s backed by nothing and can vanish over night. Bitcoin value is a chart on how stupid the masses have become.

#5 Dolce Vita on 11.20.17 at 5:53 pm

#1 Snoopy

Amen.

#6 Div on 11.20.17 at 5:53 pm

One more thing: did you know bitcoin actually pays something like a “dividend?”

Yep…. every so often, the bitcoin code-base forks, splitting off a new currency.

If you hold an original coin at time of forking, you now own the old Bitcoin, and a NewCoin to boot!

Sell, the new coin once the exchanges start trading in it, and take your free profit. It’s almost like a dividend that way: principle (original bitcoin) stays intact, yet you get to scoop off profits.

Heh, in theory, if you hold on the the new coin too, that new coin may fork in itself! More free grandbaby coins for you!

It’s a good thing that I bought mine many years ago, at an ATM in a Vancouver Waves cafe when it was still below c$300,-

#7 sage of omaha on 11.20.17 at 5:54 pm

Hear Ye Hear Ye,

The greatest investor of our time, has a proclamation regarding bitcoining!

This is a doubling-down of Buffett’s position on bitcoin specifically, and cryptocurrencies in general. He’s gone on the record previously with his criticisms of these instruments. In a 2014 Squawk Box segment on CNBC, Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert solicited his opinion of bitcoin. His answer was blunt: “Stay away from it,” he warned. “It’s a mirage, basically.”

Elaborating on his remarks, Buffett said bitcoin is “a very effective way of transmitting money, and you can do it anonymously and all that.” He added: “A check is a way of transmitting money, too. Are checks worth a whole lot of money just because they can transmit money?”

He capped his criticism by saying that “The idea that [bitcoin] has some huge intrinsic value is just a joke, in my view.”

#8 nick on 11.20.17 at 5:55 pm

The funny thing is, bitcoin is inferior technologically compared to other coins. Christ, its so slow. But its the main coin. Why? Is it just because it was here first? Because its the most popular? Probably… thats the only real explanation.

Thats why buying bitcoin as anything other than a gamble doesnt make sense to me. Other coins are better. Someone can create something better than the rest at any point. But people who have no idea how the tech actually works still pile into Bitcoin. Its a classic example of people jumping into something they dont understand. It has zero function that cant be done better by something else.

Blockchain tech is great. But its no secret. Its improving/changing over time. It does more, and it does it faster. The price of a bitcoin is just ridiculous and nobody has been able to justify why it fundamentally makes sense.

#9 Terry on 11.20.17 at 5:59 pm

Bitcoin, Tesla, Netflix, Amazon, Facebook …. etc….. These are all speculative zombie entities and companies that create NO PROFITS WHATSOEVER! They have been a going concern, (trend), for a while but they are in fact a big fat zero! They will all be out of business very shortly.

#10 BlogDog123 on 11.20.17 at 6:01 pm

Didn’t Mr. Ponzi have a great scheme once upon a time that worked well for a while?

Bitcoin mania reminds me of the good ol’ dotcom days, DNA genetics stocks, lithium or potash hoarding, or something else like that…

#11 Kilt on 11.20.17 at 6:01 pm

Disturbing. They should can the 100 people and use their salaries and whatever they were planning to invest in bitcoins and just shuffle it into Garth’s balanced ETF portfolio.

Kilt.

#12 ALFRED E. NEWMAN on 11.20.17 at 6:01 pm

#1 Snoopy on 11.20.17 at 5:40 pm:
“It is impossible to imagine someone else writing so humorously, intelligently, thoughtfully, stridently, iconoclastically and, most importantly, for free for so long. Thank you.”

Snoopy, I absolutely agree with you. And well said.

Garth, you ARE one helluva writer ..!! Thank you twice.

#13 Guy in Calgary on 11.20.17 at 6:02 pm

Not sure about bitcoin, but blockchain technology is most definitely the future.

#14 John McGill on 11.20.17 at 6:03 pm

I am a bit of a skeptic, but having said that I invested a small amount with my daughter into Ethereum and Lightcoin. To date we have done very well, but who knows.

#15 Zapstrap on 11.20.17 at 6:04 pm

Make it two.
—————————————————————
Have you ever looked at your X and wondered Y?

#16 NoName on 11.20.17 at 6:07 pm

But this week the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board revealed it has a staff of 100 people watching, analyzing and possibly preparing to jump in. -GT

Tell us this is a one of those unfunny joke, because if it’s not meme on car at work stands true…
Elect clown, expect circus.

#17 paracho on 11.20.17 at 6:17 pm

I purchased some Bitcoin in 2011 and 3012 viaaBitcoin ATM . A number of purchases that are still in my wallet . I spent done in 2014 … but still have the majority . Just over 3.5 Bitcoin which I am just holding on to . Not adding anymore or redeeming for products like in my past .
Trying to accumulate a small amount of Etherium , but can not find ATM in Toronto that serve Etherium . Anyone here have any leads … only want to purchase a few , like I did with Bitcoin and hold on !

#18 Fake News Again on 11.20.17 at 6:19 pm

So…..fiat currency is tightly controlled but yet trillions and trillions of dollars were printed up by the private banks out of thin air in 2008. 99.9% of which was never seen by the average pleb.

#19 mike from mtl on 11.20.17 at 6:26 pm

Still can’t shake off that money laundering and dark web drug payment vibe.

Dumb money is pouring in which would explain it, I overhear it around the workplace – calling a top soon.

Oh and I am sure the CRA will be very interested when the ‘investors’ actually exchange their ‘winnings’ to conventional fiat. Yea RBC won’t care transferring six-seven figures to your chequing account?

#20 HoweStreet.com on 11.20.17 at 6:28 pm

Ross Kay on HoweStreet.com Radio:
Lawsuit Threats from Realtors Keeping You from the Truth?
CMHC wrong to say Canadians giving up on home ownership dream?

http://www.howestreet.com/2017/11/20/lawsuit-threats-from-realtors-keeping-you-from-the-truth/

#21 duffy on 11.20.17 at 6:32 pm

Usually when the curve is that steep major self ass kicking eventually occurs for most that join the party, speaking of which, Scotch goes very well with this but be sure to yell downstairs to your unemployed video playing goosebumps cause they have work to do for the next ten minutes.

#22 acdel on 11.20.17 at 6:33 pm

Being not very familiar with Bitcoin or others; where is it accepted? Meaning, if you actually wished to purchase a house or a car, heck even a coffee, who accepts this currency?? How is it converted to cash or is it??

#23 duffy on 11.20.17 at 6:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_elmd7eaPYQ

#24 gfd on 11.20.17 at 6:36 pm

Mass killer and cult leader Charles Manson dies aged 83
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/mass-killer-charles-manson-dies-aged-83/

#25 TRUMP on 11.20.17 at 6:37 pm

MORNEAU…….

nananana…nananana!!!!……heyheyhey…..GOODBYE!!!

#26 conan on 11.20.17 at 6:40 pm

I almost bought Bit Coin in 2009 for 7 cents .

E Waste is a huge business in China. Hard drives ended up being the most valuable component because some hard drives contained Bit Coin. No doubt, they looked and consolidated them, and someone in China sitting on a mountain of Bit Coin.

#27 John McGill on 11.20.17 at 6:40 pm

acdel

It can be converted to CDN on many exchanges. Two biggest in Canada are QuadrigaCX and Coinsquare.

#28 les on 11.20.17 at 6:41 pm

I have some tulip bulbs to sell. There are only a few so hurry and place your order!

#29 Crypto Creepy on 11.20.17 at 6:41 pm

What ever happened to 2×4’s, a plan and dirt ?

#30 Sideshow Rob on 11.20.17 at 6:47 pm

Guy from Calgary…”Not sure about bitcoin, but blockchain technology is most definitely the future.”

I think you are exactly right. Blockchain is a wonderful technology that is going to be perfected and used for a very long time. Bitcoin? Well lets just say no bubble can end until the dumb money buys in. There is no money dumber than the CPP.

#31 Randy Randerson on 11.20.17 at 6:53 pm

I’ve started dabbling in crypto last month, with a small amount of play money that I don’t mind losing. BTC doesn’t have the greatest technology, but it’s the most well known. I personally see Ethereum as superior because of its promise to allow decentralized app, maybe it’s Google/Amazon in the making.

#16 paracho on 11.20.17 at 6:17 pm

I buy ETH from QuadrigaCX. Pretty convenient but you do pay a bit more for the spread. It accept interac online.

#32 Nonplused on 11.20.17 at 6:58 pm

I am sure bitcoin will fail eventually, they are too expensive to “mine” and transact:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/How-Many-Barrels-Of-Oil-Are-Needed-To-Mine-One-Bitcoin.html

From the article, Bitcoin right now uses 40 times more electricity than the entire Visa network. That doesn’t seem sustainable to me. How are they going to scale it up to a meaningful size without melting everyone’s computers?

The problem with distributed computing, upon which Bitcoin relies, is that it takes thousands or in this case possibly millions of computers to do it, whereas PayPal probably needs a lot less. If the Visa example holds then 40 times less. People buy custom built computers to “mine” Bitcoins and they just sit there whirring through algorithms and turning electricity into heat, which an air conditioner then needs to turn back into cool, just to make magic numbers. Seems silly to me.

And it’s not like it can’t be hacked, the “exchanges” have already had Bitcoins stolen.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/28/ethereum-cryptocurrency-stolen-bitcoin/

And it doesn’t get you away from the FBI either, they’ve seized Bitcoins before. Not sure exactly how they do that but if you got the Bitcoins selling drugs they can get them. I don’t know what they do with them, I think they just sell them.

http://fortune.com/2017/10/02/bitcoin-sale-silk-road/

I for one will not be “investing” in Bitcoin. I also don’t see it as a particularly better form of payment than say PayPal so I don’t need it for that either. At least with PayPal if you don’t get your product in 30 days there is someone you can contact and get your money back.

I once bought a gold coin on eBay, and the guy didn’t deliver. Turns out what he was doing is selling coins he didn’t have when prices were high, and then waiting for a pullback in the price to buy coins to deliver. The price didn’t pull back, so he didn’t ship. Or maybe he just ran out of coins, I don’t know, all I know is he didn’t ship.
Lucky I paid through PayPal and they recovered my money. Is there a way to do this with Bitcoins? (PS I don’t buy gold on eBay anymore. One lesson was enough.)

I’m not too worried about Bitcoin going away when the grid goes down, because most transactions are electronic these days so Visa and PayPal won’t be there either. I don’t even think you’ll be able to go to a bank and get cash because they won’t know what’s in your account until the power comes back. It’s been that way for a long time.

There are plenty of reasons given the above 3 articles I linked not to buy the Bitcoin hype, but I think the main one is that it solves a problem that doesn’t exist, and at great expense in terms of computers and electricity. Sure, it bailed out Julian Assange, but only so long as he and his computer stay in the embassy.

http://fortune.com/2017/10/16/bitcoin-price-julian-assange-wikileaks/

But my feeling is that the US government is coming for Wikileaks one way or another it’s only a matter of time. They got Silk Road. What would be better than Bitcoin is a way to reign in the government. Mind you I guess the difference is that Silk Road was doing something illegal whereas Wikileaks is just doing something they really don’t like.

#33 Ace Goodheart on 11.20.17 at 6:59 pm

RE: “Of course, why someone who thinks the world might blow up would put all their faith in money that only exists if you have a good Internet connection and a charged-up phone is curious. Our gossamer grid might be the first piece of infrastructure to fail. Go figure.”

Making this connection is hard for the young folk of today, who cannot imagine life without Facebook, who could not get a date without Tinder and who would be completely lost without Whatsapp.

So picture yourself travelling. You have a “wallet” full of bitcoin. Maybe a few hundred K. You want to start spending it. You are in Sub Saharan Africa, down in the DRC visiting Kinshasa. What do you do?

Or maybe you are in downtown Toronto and you see some thing you want to buy in the windows of a store. You go in and try to spend your bitcoin….

Or say you’re hanging at a resort in Cancun, and you walk across the street to Senor Frogs. All you can drink for $60.00 US. All you have is bitcoin on your smart phone. You want to pay the bouncer so you can go in and get sloshed…..

There is no use whatsoever for these currencies. They are Ponzi schemes plain and simple. The only reason people are buying them is because their value keeps going up. Buy a bitcoin today for $10,555.00 CDN dollars, sell it next week for $15,000 CDN dollars. The value will always go up….

Meanwhile, the real reason why the value is always going up is because people can buy these things on 100x leverage, from brokers who do not provide the capital to do so but are also buying on leverage.

Here is an article which explains it (from 2015):

http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/03/16/dummies-trading-bitcoin-leverage/

The article indicates that at the time the highest leverage they had found was 50 to 1. I have found 100 to one recently. Likely there are higher ratios.

This thing is a giant, debt driven unregulated Ponzi scheme. The value is likely going to keep going up, as people keep borrowing to buy more.

People are going to lose their entire life savings on this. It is massively and confoundingly stupid and it shows the absolute worst of the human being.

Total and absolute greed combined with epic short sightedness and dumb faith in something that they can’t even understand. When it all falls apart people will talk about the depths to which human stupidity can reach, for years to come.

There is NO value to a bitcoin. It is a pyramid that is going to collapse.

#34 D.D. Corkum on 11.20.17 at 7:00 pm

#9 Terry on 11.20.17 at 5:59 pm

Paraphrasing: “[…] and Amazon are all speculative zombie entities and companies that create NO PROFITS WHATSOEVER!”

—-

Amazon shouldn’t be in that list. They have been profitable every quarter for the past two years.

#35 TurnerNation on 11.20.17 at 7:02 pm

WWBD?What would Buffet do?

Sure I bet CPP hired also a bevy of .com stock analysts in late 1999/early 2000. The only thing to do.

Not a BTC BSD,

M41ON

#36 Goldie on 11.20.17 at 7:03 pm

Millions of dollars worth of bitcoin have also been stolen. No one has any idea who did it or where the coin is now. Do a search if curious. Anything is hackable. Remember that.

#37 down_boy on 11.20.17 at 7:08 pm

50% btc, 30% ltc, 5% dash, 5% bch, 5% syscoin, 1% free btg, 0% ether
Nice even incline. 4% for scattering seed in Neo, Nem, NLC, omg, emc2. Watching Steem dollars/Power develop. Never bothered signing up for monero, though I wish I did at 80. I select based on market adoption and usefulness. Yes, some tokens pay dividends. I started with fun $ on a paper wallet from an ATM and moved it into a coinomi wallet with another paper wallet offline. I learned to use a wallet and transact. Coinmarketcap, coingecko, btc unconfirmed tx, bitinfocharts are good resources. Here’s a fun opine: https://youtu.be/wf3wr8v1N3s

#38 gfd on 11.20.17 at 7:10 pm

#22 duffy on 11.20.17 at 6:35 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_elmd7eaPYQ
—————————-
. . . what a jam, thank you

#39 bring_it_on on 11.20.17 at 7:12 pm

I would rather keep all my cash in a hidden safe in my house, or under a mattress, than buy into bitcoin. I am sure we will learn soon enough of the corruption and faceless scammer figures who control the peaks and deep valleys of this “commodity”. As much as I am wary of our Gov’t and the stock market,, investing in this currency is way worse of a risk in my view. I’d rather hoard my cash.

#40 CL on 11.20.17 at 7:13 pm

Honestly, either A: central banks/gov’t have an angle they are playing or B: they plan to crush this when it becomes a real threat to central banking.

There is just no way it will fly on its own and the banks will turn a blind eye. While to me 130 billion is a lot, it is not in the big scheme of central banking/money supply.

#41 AK on 11.20.17 at 7:14 pm

What is Bitcoin?

Is it an asset or currency ?

#42 Rexx Rock on 11.20.17 at 7:15 pm

Bitcoin started to rise ever since Cypress collapse.I will wait for the pullback and then buy in small quantities.Speculating in crypto currencies,real estate and the stock market is the future.Fixed income is to miniscule,sorry but its the truth.If you want a nice retirement you better speculate or expect to be a greeter at Walmart.

#43 Nonplused on 11.20.17 at 7:16 pm

Hmm I just had another thought. I wonder if, at some point in the future, most vehicles are autonomous, how much power is all those computers are going to use? Everything you do in a car with electricity comes out of the battery which has to be charged by the generator which comes straight out of the gas tank (or battery bank if it’s electric). I suppose autonomous vehicles will “drive better” so maybe they pay for themselves by not being so hard on the accelerator. And I suppose it could never use as much power as air conditioning.

But again I think autonomous vehicles solve a problem that doesn’t exist, except perhaps as commercial vehicles where they can replace labor.

Also they are going to really screw up the insurance thing. If an autonomous BMW and an autonomous Tesla get into a crash, who’s liable? The people in the cars that weren’t driving them? BMW? Tesla? Are you as the owner of the vehicle liable even though the fault was in the software in your car?

#44 The Fat Lady on 11.20.17 at 7:16 pm

We should proud that our Finance Minister “Morneau” wants to see retirees propser……

Especially when he profits from it…$$$$

#45 akashic record on 11.20.17 at 7:24 pm

One of the biggest value of BTC in parabolic sense, is that it is an exceptional asset class which doesn’t care what Jamie D thinks and says about it.

That alone is priceless.

#46 conan on 11.20.17 at 7:29 pm

Taking a step back, I see a society becoming too dependent on the internet. We should teach pioneer skills to counter it. 2 weeks a year should do it.

Millennial, meet the bush.
Bush, meet the Millennial.

https://i.redditmedia.com/9uMbugNFdTxTtVwEZslSDgs5nCzVXDljJE3bvQbjPeY.jpg?w=641&s=53f228ff038b5cd2ecf1866b4b332961

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTRFwAvAg0

#47 Bob Dog on 11.20.17 at 7:31 pm

Block chain maxes out at 7 transactions per second. Visa handles 24,000 transactions per second.

Each bitcoin transaction requires enough electricity to power a home for a week.

DogECoin is exactly the same technology as bitcoin and its worth $0.0018 US. Bitcoin $8,000.00 US.

Its the bubble of the century.

Pile in everybody.

#48 Nonplused on 11.20.17 at 7:33 pm

Also another future problem with autonomous cars. They require a lot of sensors. High teck sensors. As anybody driving a modern car knows usually when the “check engine” light comes on it’s because you need to replace a sensor.

My truck has a backup warning system and a rear view camera, and both are useless if I’ve been through some mud. Thus I think the autonomous car experiment will ultimately fail. Ever driven through a puddle and had the water poor over your windshield? What happens when that happens to your sensors? Ever had the engine just quit due to an electrical fault? You can pull over without the power steering but what happens if the computer fault was in the autopilot and now there is nobody steering at all?

Of course airplanes have had autopilot for years but whenever I get on one there are still 2 pilots up front, and they have multiple backup systems. The new “fly by wire” systems (which aren’t that new anymore) present the biggest danger, but older aircraft even when equipped with autopilot could be flown manually using human-controls-hydraulics if necessary. All mechanical. Even on something as big as a 747.

#49 akashic record on 11.20.17 at 7:35 pm

“Periodically, we review our line of credit interest rates to ensure they are priced appropriately.

I like the language and don’t care about the + 0.19%.

Mind you, I can’t remember “pricing appropriately” with a minus sign over the past years.

#50 Terry on 11.20.17 at 7:40 pm

#32

“Amazon shouldn’t be in that list. They have been profitable every quarter for the past two years.”

Amazon does belong on my list since it looses just over 18% on everything it sells!

#51 Basil Fawlty on 11.20.17 at 7:44 pm

Many Bitcoin advocates and investors argue that Bitcoin is the only asset class that is currently not manipulated and that is why the price keeps going up. This makes some sense, as the US dollar is purported to have lost 97% of its purchasing power since 1913. In addition, numerous banks have paid huge, out of court, settlements for precious metals and interest rate manipulation. Not to mention, massive stock holdings by central banks and bond values at 300 year highs, due to interest rates below the rate of inflation.
The thing about bitcoin is that while the number of coins is limited to 21M, there are lots of other coins and more coming.

#52 The Great Gazoo on 11.20.17 at 7:48 pm

Oil: The price is not right

The market wants to trade a demand slow-down of the future, while ignoring the fundamentals of the present

http://www.petroleum-economist.com/articles/markets/outlook/2017/oil-the-price-is-not-right

#53 William Bell on 11.20.17 at 7:52 pm

Bitcoin HODLer checking in!

#54 older than a boomer on 11.20.17 at 7:53 pm

Never trust a Tapscott. I liked Don back in the day but the boy is a bit of lad. Check your goog for that story, and also the Pigeon King stories in Waterloo Record.

Don and Suzuki’s daughter were on the same panel at some long ago conference in Vancouver..and I was impressed. Loved YVR too. Great walk score.

#55 Keith on 11.20.17 at 7:53 pm

The founder(s)? of Bitcoin is/are anonymous. Online wallets have been hacked and the contents stolen. Bitcoin is backed by ???? some technological process that is pretty hard for us working folk to understand. Not by gold, or the taxation power/economy of a sovereign nation.

So all the elements of a scam are in place. I suspect governments and banks around the world have people observing block chain technology, and it will become part of the payment system of the world. It’s amazing to me that the consequences of ultra low interest rates are showing up not just in real estate prices, but in all kinds of assets, including the world of alternatives. We live in interesting times.

#56 Smoking Man on 11.20.17 at 7:53 pm

I don’t understand Bitcoin, won’t touch it.
Old school fx trader here 400 to 1 margin works for me.

Up 7gs just today.

#57 Bitcoin is a scam on 11.20.17 at 7:56 pm

Bitcoin is a scam. The prices on these unregulated online exchanges are driven by bots that trade among themselves at artificially increasing (and sometimes decreasing) prices, all to lure in naive greedy speculators. The trades take place among hundreds of thousands of bitcoin addresses owned by a handful of hackers, who by now are fabulously wealthy (assuming they have steadily been selling their bitcoins to the suckers they have been luring in). This is the big problem with Bitcoin and similar scams: there is no way to tell whether any number of transactions at specific prices are arms-length, or whether they are simply the same person trading with themselves at fake prices. Aside from this huge hole in Bitcoin, there is of course also the problem that a mere five miners (three of which the sons of chineses communist party members, who all regularly meet with eachother to discuss strategy) control almost all mining power; any majority of these (for example the three Chinese kids) could at any time alter the Blockchain, and do so backwards in time up to the last “checkpoint” (which by the way is determined by a small group of programmers in a dictatorial fashion, completely contradicting any claim that powers in Bitcoin are distributed); if, sorry make that when, they do that, it is as if none of the transactions from that checkpoint on never happened. Poof, there go all your bitcoins, up in smoke. Then again, they were just that from the start, and those investing in it perhaps deserve nothing more than just that. After all, it was just naivity and greed, that toxic mix, that lead them to invest in Bitcoin in the first place. A bit like out housing bubble, but at least that take place in the brick-and-mortar world, whereas in the digital world all kinds of scams can be automated with ease by any millenial with basic coding skills. Ah, the revenge of the millenials, perhaps there is some justice after all:-)

#58 Mike in Toronto on 11.20.17 at 7:57 pm

#21 acdel

Exchanges move the bitcoins in and out of fiat currencies. There’s also open markets, you could sell it to anyone or buy it from anyone.

While the technology is here to stay and you could ( and people do ) generate hundreds of different “altcoins”, the nebulous “herd” is a very real thing. You could generate all the forks or all the altcoins you want, but if you don’t have miners, the currency won’t go anywhere.

The really unique thing about bitcoin is that it is not tied to a nation, which means it is not married to a tax system. You could buy bitcoins in Canada, let them explode in value and cash them out in any tax system you have access to. If you’re looking at a personal fortune of millions of dollars, you would be insane to cash it in in Canada. Leave the country, open a bank account and cash out in your new lower-taxed home.

It also means it’s an ideal currency for moving money over borders. Some dollar-cost-averaging might be necessary to avoid getting caught in fluctuations, but it is possible that this property of rapid movement over tightly controlled borders gives it a real value. Chineese Yuan? No border. Iranian Rials? no border.

This technology flips banks on their heads. Banks are centralized ledgers which track transactions scrupulously and take extreme measures to guard and protect those measures. Distributed ledgers make everything the public record. They’re not anonymous, but they also don’t make it obvious the link between a wallet and a person. There is no anonymity if you fill a wallet using your credit card, then spend that bitcoin on crack. This distributed nature is much cheaper to secure than a bank’s centralized ledger.

It’s an amazing technology with enormous implications… nobody knows where it is going to go. I’m sure that’s a big part of why the creator hasn’t come forward.

#59 For those about to flop... on 11.20.17 at 8:02 pm

Here is the latest article from howmuch.

Also to tie into this blog post ,I put a couple of links to recent articles on Bitcoin and Crypto Currencies…

M43BC

“What $1000 Invested in These Companies 10 Years Ago would be Worth Today.

Here’s a fun thought experiment. Suppose you had $15,000 to invest evenly in fifteen different companies back before the Great Recession. Then you let it ride through the market’s downturn, holding your investment instead of selling anything. How much would you have today?

We let MSN crunch the numbers, and we did two things. First, we made a blue circle equivalent to the $1,000 initial investment, which is the same size for each company. Second, the pink circle represents the total value of the investment today. The larger the pink circle, the more your investment is worth. Obviously, if the pink fits inside the blue, then you lost money.

The viz makes one crucial assumption you have to keep in mind. We assume that you took any dividend paid out in cash and did not reinvest it back into the company by buying more stock. This means that you have to pay a capital gains tax on any dividends as you hold the stock, unless it is part of a tax-sheltered account like an IRA. Understanding the difference between dividends and annualized growth in a stock is important as you compare relatively new companies like Netflix to old ones like GE.

That being said, our graph provides a quick snapshot of the U.S. economy over the past several years. First and foremost, you can easily see which companies have been winners and losers, and as a result you can infer significant changes in the economy. Netflix is the obvious standout. $1,000 invested ten years ago would be worth a whopping $51,966 today, which is by far and away the best performance in our graph. Netflix made a big bet that it could profitably create its own content. It wasn’t clear this would pay off back in 2007, and it remains to be seen how Netflix will compete with the proliferation of other streaming services.

We hasten to add that a stock’s past performance is certainly no guarantee of future returns. Take a look at GE, the company in last place. $1,000 invested ten years ago would have dropped by more than half to a measly $490 today. GE has been around for a long time and is currently undergoing significant structural changes. The new CEO just announced the deepest cut to the dividend since 2009. If your philosophy is to buy low and sell high, dropping Netflix in favor or GE might be a smart move.

Looking at stock prices is a good barometer for judging the overall economy. All things being equal, prices seem pretty high right now. In fact, most of the companies on our chart have seen significant gains in recent years. Think about it. Investing in the lowest performers like Microsoft, FedEx, and Walmart would still have doubled your money. Investors focused on long-term capital appreciation would take those results every time.”

https://howmuch.net/articles/1000-dollars-investment-in-stocks

https://howmuch.net/articles/putting-the-crypto-market-in-perspective

https://howmuch.net/articles/bitcoin-wealth-distribution

#60 Danforth on 11.20.17 at 8:03 pm

Gentle reminder that it’s properly called ‘whisky’.

‘Scotch’ is what boors call whisky, some of which happens to come from Scotland. Yes, the people at the LCBO who make the signs and brochures are also boors. I’ve received my coaching, and am healed of past sins in calling it that s-word!

#61 Doug t on 11.20.17 at 8:04 pm

I bought a bitcoin several years ago and it sits in this virtual wallet – I still don’t understand crypto’s and don’t trust the idea as yet – the one thing I do like about it is the freedom of control from the power structure of the 1% that has existed for far too long

RATM

#62 Bitcoinnaire on 11.20.17 at 8:07 pm

Even if Bitcoin does not survive itself, the technology will form the basis and backbone of the modern e-commerce economy and replace the antiquated SWIFT infrastructure in interrogating/verifying global transactions. The decentralized ledger is the way of the future.

Here is an up-and-coming blockchain variant of PayPal, which has all of the functionality but literally a fraction of the fees. Here is the White Paper, which does not require a computer science degree to digest:

https://request.network/assets/pdf/request_whitepaper.pdf

If the team delivers the technology, their token will soar. Great small cap investment as well.

#63 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 11.20.17 at 8:11 pm

. But this week the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board revealed it has a staff of 100 people watching, analyzing and possibly preparing to jump in.

………………………………

They will jump in all right and the PTB will whack it with a big stick.

#64 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.20.17 at 8:11 pm

Let me tell you about one of Bitcoin’s biggest weaknesses. The other cryptocurrencies that are gaining prominence these days are designed to be a direct threat to Bitcoin. You see, Bitcoin’s strength is that there is only a limited quantity of them that will ever exist. They can’t be printed to infinity. However, if other cryptocurrencies take hold and overtake Bitcoin in value or popularity it will be the death of Bitcoin (and all cryptocurrencies) since it will then become evident that although Bitcoin is limited as to quantity there is no limit to how many new cryptocurrencies can be created. Some people already know this (at least subconsciously) but since Bitcoin has remained the dominant one by far the reality of it has not yet sunk in. If people are willing to just jump to the next fashionable cryptocurrency that comes along Bitcoin will become worthless. Who wants to miss the boat on the next big thing? Who wants to be stuck with something that is falling out of fashion? That’s the real reason behind the big push on etherium and some others.

#65 Gotta be kidding on 11.20.17 at 8:13 pm

#9 Terry
C’mon, you’re picking on some heavy hitters here.
These companies are changing our economies and putting their competitors out of business. Let’s face it , these companies will be around long after we’re gone.

#66 Doug in London on 11.20.17 at 8:20 pm

Why would anyone buy anything so grossly overpriced when there are far better places to put your money? I’d rather put money into something that’s on sale now, like stock in Enbridge, GE, or AT&T.

#67 Hiding On the Backstreets on 11.20.17 at 8:21 pm

@#16 Paracho

“Trying to accumulate a small amount of Etherium , but can not find ATM in Toronto that serve Etherium . Anyone here have any leads … only want to purchase a few , like I did with Bitcoin and hold on !”
———–
Try the online exchanges like Quadriga and Coinbase – you can buy, but they have several days lag for verification required. The site Localbitcoins.com to meet to trade/buy/sell with local crypto users.

It’s funny reading all the commentary from those who denounce cryptocurrencies without any strong argument for a contrary position.
At least #30 Nonplused provides some evidence….ie links to well researched articles and information.

For some people, their reasons for dismissing bitcoin and other cryptos amounts to nothing more than ” I don’t understand it! I trust the government/central banks! …such and such old school investor says it’s a scam!”…

Predictions are difficult, especially about the future. Looking forward to more GF coverage of cryptos. They’re not going away.

#68 Randy on 11.20.17 at 8:23 pm

There is a massive amount of hoarding going on in the bitcoin world. Why sell/spend now what you believe will be worth more tomorrow? What do you think will happen once the expectation of future price appreciation is gone? The price will plummet as the reverse happens. Since there is nothing of fundamental value underpinning it, there will be nothing to prop it up.

#69 Kia for life. on 11.20.17 at 8:24 pm

#7 sage of omaha on 11.20.17 at 5:54 pm
Hear Ye Hear Ye,

The greatest investor of our time, has a proclamation regarding bitcoining!

This is a doubling-down of Buffett’s position on bitcoin specifically, and cryptocurrencies in general. He’s gone on the record previously with his criticisms of these instruments. In a 2014 Squawk Box segment on CNBC, Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert solicited his opinion of bitcoin. His answer was blunt: “Stay away from it,” he warned. “It’s a mirage, basically.
———————

Guy has finally sold some ibm and bought some apple too.

Garth does Paleo?

#70 Dmitry on 11.20.17 at 8:32 pm

The fact that Bitcoin is not only not blocked, but promoted by governments and officials leads me to believe it’s created and sponsored by some kind of secret agency to cover it’s trails and get a source of revenue from fools all around the world, not from government coffers, also helps to cover trails.
Who knows where the money earned from selling Bitcoins to fools are spent on. Buying weapons to sponsor wars, terrorist groups, etc.
It’s all covered and cannot be known.
But fools are greedy and begging for ponzi schemas so they can be fooled. History proves that over and over.
I guess it’s one of these mental thing that humans have – greed torn off critical thinking and it’s being exploited over and over again.

#71 Greater Fool on 11.20.17 at 8:33 pm

@ #4 Pete
“Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Every ponzi scheme looks like it has value only because people believe in it. It’s worthless. It doesn’t earn anything and you can’t making anything with it like you could worh gold. It’s backed by nothing and can vanish over night. Bitcoin value is a chart on how stupid the masses have become.”

Are you describing Fiat currencies?

#72 Dylan Althouse on 11.20.17 at 8:38 pm

The amount of misinformation and misunderstanding around here, while understandable, is unfortunate. Here’s a truly helpful Q&A from Jameson Lopp:
Welcome to Bitcoin, newcomers! Here’s your FAQ:

Q: Who should I trust?
A: Nobody.

Q: When should I sell?
A: Never.

Q: Is Bitcoin dying because ____?
A: No.

Q: What have I gotten myself into?
A: Nobody knows.

Q: How do I learn more?
A: lopp.net/bitcoin.html

Note: I am not an affiliate nor am I endorsing any ICO.

#73 Terry on 11.20.17 at 8:39 pm

#63

“C’mon, you’re picking on some heavy hitters here.
These companies are changing our economies and putting their competitors out of business. Let’s face it , these companies will be around long after we’re gone.”

Exactly my point …………. Amazon is putting it’s competitors out of business because it’s selling it’s goods to everyone at a loss! Competitors can’t stay in business because they can’t make a profit anymore because Wall Street is allowing Amazon to sell it’s goods at a loss. One has to ask themselves the question, why is Amazon still in business since it doesn’t make any money ………. after ALL expenses?

#74 Bottoms_Up on 11.20.17 at 8:40 pm

#28 Sideshow Rob on 11.20.17 at 6:47 pm
———————
The CPP is in top 10 globally. Seems to be smart money to me:

http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/inside-the-risky-strategy-that-made-canadas-biggest-pension-plans-the-new-masters-of-the-universe

#75 mark on 11.20.17 at 8:44 pm

Developing religion status, but I always remember online poker and how quickly it was killed off when they made processing payments illegal.

#76 Smoking Man on 11.20.17 at 8:44 pm

FYI

GTA Real Estate inventory through the roof. Just found out one of my nefews just bought a 600k house in Brampton.

I blame his parents. Huge Re bulls.

On another note. Every one in the family thinks he’s slow. The kid bought bitcoin when it was 3 bucks.

I’m sure he’s paying cash. Good for him.

Revenge of the nerds.

#77 Bottoms_Up on 11.20.17 at 8:45 pm

#65 Hiding On the Backstreets on 11.20.17 at 8:21 pm
——————–
Easy, there is no intrinsic value to bitcoin. It only has value because people think it has value.
Actually in that respect it is similar to money, except money serves as a medium of exchange. I guess in the same vein one could argue bitcoin serves as a store of wealth, except it can’t, because it is extremely volatile and has no intrinsic value.

#78 Bitcoin is not the future on 11.20.17 at 8:45 pm

Bitcoin is not the future of currency. There is no technical way to prevent pooling of a majority of miners. That right there blows the whole cryptographic design fo smithereens. Then, there is nothing to distinguish one person faking a million trades among his own bitcoin addresses, all it takes is a simple script to automate that. So, real arms-length transactions cannot be distinguished from simulated ones. Should I go on? Privacy is very poor. Scalability is horrible, and it is a fundamental problem that similar alternative schemes are also stuck with. If electronic currencies will ever catch on, they will be based on radically different, and more advanced cryptography. It will need to be post-quantum crypto, or traditional publi-key crypto with keys of millions of bits. And if it is to protect privacy, it will need to rely on zeroknowledge proof techniques or blind signatures. And if we are to remove the power of a single issuer, it will need to allow for threshold multi-issuer ecoin generation. On top of that, to prevent massive inflation of the number of ecoins, advanced crypto is needed that has nothing to do with Bitcoins naive mining approach. Do we know how to design this system? Tye hard part of the equation is making it quantum-computing resistant. If it weren’t for that, all the tools have already been invented in modern crypto to design a blazingly fast ecash-like system with all the above properties. Why us no one pursuing this? Simple: these kinda of systems offer no viral reward for joining early, since there is no reliance on the notion of mining your own coins. The latter is what drove people initially to speculate in Bitcoin,generating a large user base that is now obsessed with driving up the prices of their holdings through fake transactions.

#79 Shea Darlison on 11.20.17 at 8:50 pm

Hey Garth, checkout tether, it is one tied to the USD https://tether.to/

#80 Hawk on 11.20.17 at 8:55 pm

Bitcoin can be money for only a small percentage of the world’s population. It will be quite a long time before the majority of the world’s population is tech savvy enough for crypto currency to be used globally as a medium of exchange for day to day transactions.

Most of the world will continue with fiat / precious metals because those are mediums they understand.

But I expect it’s a good start to get the ball rolling……..

#81 party popper on 11.20.17 at 8:58 pm

Garth,
your sense of humour is amazing!
The US Government doesn’t print trillions – it BORROWS them with interest!
The private bank called “Federal Reserve” prints the money.
Big difference!

The Fed answers to Congress. – Garth

#82 Smoking Man on 11.20.17 at 8:59 pm

Trying to Google great writers that don’t smoke.
I’ll I find is Globalists and there propaganda pushers.

Great truthfully writers smoke and drink heavily. Its a small tribe today.

#83 Happy housing crash everyone! on 11.20.17 at 9:00 pm

BitCoin?? I thought you guys were talking about BillClinton. Probably same low class.

#84 Renter's Revenge! on 11.20.17 at 9:05 pm

Every dog has its day, eh Garth?

#85 conan on 11.20.17 at 9:11 pm

“But this week the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board revealed it has a staff of 100 people watching, analyzing and possibly preparing to jump in.” – Garth

Jump in meaning creating a Govt Coin and putting all of these crypto coin schemes out of business.

http://www.sellersedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/TIME-TO-SELL.jpg

#86 will on 11.20.17 at 9:12 pm

I don’t understand it yet like many people. But some say it’s sorta like the Internet was a long time ago. Nobody understood it and now it is taken for granted. If I knew how to I would buy some.

#87 acdel on 11.20.17 at 9:12 pm

#56 Mike in Toronto

Exchanges move the bitcoins in and out of fiat currencies. There’s also open markets, you could sell it to anyone or buy it from anyone.

———————————————

Hello Mike, thanks for your response. My understanding of Fiat currency that it is backed by a government that has issued it.

You gave an example on how Bitcoin could be transferred to a credit card (i think), but let say I had one bitcoin, could I go to a bank and say that I would like to transfer the amount of that one bitcoin to a foreign currency in a specific country as long as I had an account. Would the value of the bitcoin (or others) be actually converted to cold hard cash? Thank you.

#88 Hotdogs from Heaven on 11.20.17 at 9:14 pm

#71 Terry on 11.20.17 at 8:39 pm

#63

“C’mon, you’re picking on some heavy hitters here.
These companies are changing our economies and putting their competitors out of business. Let’s face it , these companies will be around long after we’re gone.”

Exactly my point …………. Amazon is putting it’s competitors out of business because it’s selling it’s goods to everyone at a loss! Competitors can’t stay in business because they can’t make a profit anymore because Wall Street is allowing Amazon to sell it’s goods at a loss. One has to ask themselves the question, why is Amazon still in business since it doesn’t make any money ………. after ALL expenses?
———————————————-
Amazon also had the benefit of not having to charge sales tax unless it had a physical presence in the state where the purchase was made. Initially that was just Washington state.

ALL of their brick and mortar competitors had to charge it, thus Amazon was always able to sell for a cheaper price to the other 49 U.S. states.

Now that it has offices and fulfillment centers in 45 states in no longer has this incredible advantage so let’s see how long it can make money with monsters like Walmart finally getting serious about online sales.

#89 Not so fast on 11.20.17 at 9:15 pm

From Amzn Q3 report:
The company recorded a profit of 52 cents per share on $43.7 billion in revenue in the quarter
net income of $256 million, this is Amazon’s 10th straight quarter of posting a profit.

Don’t necessarily like the company and what it’s doing to local businesses but it’s a juggernaut and just continues to grow. The AWS business is disrupting IT and cloud services traditionally offered by the old the old tech guard.

#90 Bitcoinnaire on 11.20.17 at 9:21 pm

>#76

Those are all valid points and there are already tokens which are superior to Bitcoin in functionality, speed etc. Bitcoin will not be the currency of the world, but it may remain as a store of value (and the value is the encryption algorithm which replaces a central trust authority in mediating any transactions).

Bitcoin will never be used in E-commerce because one cannot reserve a transaction. FULL STOP, because of this, it will never be adopted by merchants.

There’s a lot of open source material on the mechanics of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

The world belongs to those who understand it.

#91 Bitcoinnaire on 11.20.17 at 9:23 pm

>Bitcoin will never be used in E-commerce because one cannot reserve a transaction.

Oh darn, meant to say “REVERSE”. One cannot reverse a transaction in Bitcoin.

But the answer to that is already developed in the form of smart contracts. The Ethereum network provides this functionality and I see it going places.

#92 Sam on 11.20.17 at 9:23 pm

Snoopy on 11.20.17 at 5:40 pm
It is impossible to imagine someone else writing so humorously, intelligently, thoughtfully, stridently, iconoclastically and, most importantly, for free for so long. Thank you.

I second that.

#93 Don't Believe The Hype on 11.20.17 at 9:32 pm

#1 Snoopy on 11.20.17 at 5:40 pm

1,000% agree

#94 Smoking Man on 11.20.17 at 9:34 pm

DELETED

#95 n1tro on 11.20.17 at 9:35 pm

100 CPP employees looking in Bitcoin.

How many of them are needed to change a light bulb you think?

#96 Happy Housing Crash Everyone! on 11.20.17 at 9:37 pm

#81 Happy housing crash everyone!

Please don’t use my name. Unless I see words like dirty, SHYSTER, Scum ,Evil ,POS, Liars, Useless . Thank you.

Happy Housing Crash Everyone! :-)

#97 Dobermanduke on 11.20.17 at 9:39 pm

I don’t quite understand crypto currency. Since I don’t understand it I won’t be investing in it, on my own. However is it possible to have a Blog Dog investment club that invests in it? Run by dog who “gets it”. Anyone who wants to take a shot can buy a share for say $500.00. Pool the dough and buy some. Follow it daily here. Might be to many details to make it work, just a thought.
If we turn enough profit maybe we can cash out and buy some real estate. Are you in Garth?

#98 Norm on 11.20.17 at 9:44 pm

Your net worth – wiped out by a fridge magnet…

#99 ethereuetf on 11.20.17 at 9:44 pm

Garth

Can you explain in simple terms how to purchase or invest in Bitcoin or ethereum, or whether ETFs will be available soon…thanks!

#100 Smoking Man on 11.20.17 at 9:45 pm

#92 Smoking Man on 11.20.17 at 9:34 pm
DELETED

You bastard thinking that was a truthfully one. Aliens exist .

#101 n1tro on 11.20.17 at 10:01 pm

#96 Norm on 11.20.17 at 9:44 pm
Your net worth – wiped out by a fridge magnet…
————————
you obviously dont get the topic or you would know your bitcoins can’t be lost using a magnet. you more likely lose it by not writing your wallet code down.

anyone with brass balls can start trading btc using GBTC sold on the stock market. Not allowed (in my account anyways) to be bought in a TFSA.

#102 akashic record on 11.20.17 at 10:12 pm

The Fed answers to Congress. – Garth

What does “answering to Congress” even mean in case of a privately owned entity that prints money?

What’s the purpose and role of outsourcing the creation of money for the state?

Why does the state need a third party for that?

#103 jon on 11.20.17 at 10:13 pm

If you are going to invest in Crypto then you better diversify, amongst the group, BYC BCH XRP, Dash, ETC , etc. to name a few. Many have done 2000-3000 percent in the last year. Buying bitcoin is like investing in just one stock, pretty dangerous. Other crypto technologies outperform it in many ways, such as speed, instead of waiting 10 minutes or sometimes hours others are almost instantaneous. I would be surprised if Bitcoin becomes the winner in the end, too many in the game now. The first out of the gate rarely wins at these things.

#104 Ronaldo on 11.20.17 at 10:18 pm

The downside too great. But this week the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board revealed it has a staff of 100 people watching, analyzing and possibly preparing to jump in.
———————————————————-
Oh boy. They will never learn will they. Seems to me they thought Nortel and BreX were a good deal too. Most mutual funds did as well. The old FOMO at work again.

#105 C7.R on 11.20.17 at 10:37 pm

#41 Nonplused on 11.20.17 at 7:16 pm
Hmm I just had another thought. I wonder if, at some point in the future, most vehicles are autonomous, how much power is all those computers are going to use? … I suppose autonomous vehicles will “drive better” so maybe they pay for themselves by not being so hard on the accelerator….
>> Fully autonomous vehicles basically have super-computing platforms in the trunk to process all their sensor data many thousands of times a second in order make decisions at highway speed. These units use lots of energy and create lots of waste heat. Its a challenge that will need to be overcome with computing efficiency.
>> Autonomous vehicle will drive better and safer but will pay for themselves in a fleet situation by “driving more”. Think about percent of time you car does nothing productive in the driveway.

#46 Nonplused on 11.20.17 at 7:33 pm
Also another future problem with autonomous cars. They require a lot of sensors. High teck sensors. … Thus I think the autonomous car experiment will ultimately fail. Ever driven through a puddle and had the water poor over your windshield? What happens when that happens to your sensors?
>>> The answer is sensor redundancy. Lidar (laser radar) is backed up by short/long range radar, which backed up by cameras, which is backed up by high res 3D map data (that knows were every curb and guard rail is), which is back up by you. Some sensors can be blocked by mud/snow/ice, others can see through it. Not to worry. Currently the autonomous car’s biggest problem is other bad drivers.

#106 For those about to flop... on 11.20.17 at 10:42 pm

#60 Lost…but not leased on 11.19.17 at 10:42 pm
To Flop…

Out of curiousity…
…….are there many/any examples of RE sales that go against the tide of what you are outlining (ie any selling prices going over asking ?)

//////////////////////////////

Hey Lost,I finally found some time to try and answer your question.

As I just wrote in a post , the market is multifaceted and I spend the bulk of my time documenting the negative side because that is the side that is a lot harder to get information on.

To answer your question you see people state ask is only a starting point.For the bulk of the last 15 years you were expected to go above and beyond this number to secure the property even if the ask was already outrageous.

That has now changed,sure properties still go over asking,mainly condos but there is definitely a cooling in the market.

If you go to Zolo and look at the sales to list column for detached,for the first time in a long time you will see some numbers in the early 90%s and even one in the late 80s for the mansions.

There has been a few sales recently around the 15 million mark that has distorted a few numbers but none of the ones I saw got any near ask and that is probably why the numbers that column are in the 80s

Condos are still going strong but I have located pockets of weakness and reported losses on here despite spending the bulk of my time trying to concentrate on 1/2 million dollar homes as that is the bottom rung in the city proper and if I can identify weakness there you know that it is happening further up.I also do this because I get the impression a few people on the blog would like to buy in this price range and will most likely get in over their head and suffer a calamitous loss.

Even when Vancouver y.o.y was up in the twenty percent range a month or so ago I did not lose faith that my research was out of whack and actually expected to be chirped harshly by my critics when I wrote recently that I expected large swaths of the city to be negative y.o.y by January.

Vancouver has come back down to basically even quicker than I thought but the numbers are only “pro rated” at this stage. In other words ,nothing official.

If you go to realtycheck.ca this will confirm that the downward trend is in.

What I do is take it a couple of steps further a track a portion of the market and follow them down and see what the house actually sold for or in a lot of cases gets removed because the owner knows that if they sell now there is a good chance that they will take a loss.

I guess that’s kind of what my Pink Posts are all about.

These guys need to get a certain number,can they get it?

To finish up, i wrote a post recently where I follow houses trying to find a comparable and see what happens with the both of them.

Like I wrote in Vancouver in the moment if you have two similar houses asking and assessed at roughly 1.5 million you will most likely see two different outcomes depending on when they were purchased.

The people that bought in Spring 2016 need to get 1.65m give or take to walk away with all the skin on their fingers.

Their neighbours that bought 10 years ago can afford their asking price down to the where the market is basically at this moment to 1.35 to get the deal done and so you will see a 300k difference in this hypothetical example.

I showed actual real examples of this in my neighbourhood this Spring and Summer.

I will try and find time to post some more CONFIRMED PINK SNOW next weekend…

M43BC

#107 Lost...but not leased on 11.20.17 at 10:50 pm

Re: Bitcoin

Not having any clue whatsoever on the very basics and/or the intricate details of a given matter is very UNpatriotic and a serious threat to our current kleptocratic/oligarchical – run faux democracy.

You people make me sick and should be ashamed of yourselves…do you really want the Queen and her inbred ilk suffering the indignity of having to work for a living like placing collect calls to Warren Buffet?

The horror..the horror….

#108 TurnerNation on 11.20.17 at 10:50 pm

In Soviet Kanada you must bag own groceries and pay protection money for shopping programme.
Kiss the ring.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/loblaw-loyalty-program-1.4410033

“Loblaws pitches upgraded loyalty program for $9.99 a month for premium perks”

#109 Rockylal on 11.20.17 at 10:51 pm

9 Terry on 11.20.17 at 5:59 pm
Bitcoin, Tesla, Netflix, Amazon, Facebook …. etc….. These are all speculative zombie entities and companies that create NO PROFITS WHATSOEVER! They have been a going concern, (trend), for a while but they are in fact a big fat zero! They will all be out of business very shortly.

Terry you are an idiot. Facebook, no profits? Are you for real? This company gushes profits. Stop reading cartoons and look at their financials before embarrassing yourself!

#110 TurnerNation on 11.20.17 at 10:56 pm

#9 Terry nope all those FANG companies and TSLA are part of the Total Informational Awareness/Total Spectrum Dominance plan. Our taxes pay for it. AMZN set to invada Canada soon; Google to build a ‘smart’ city in Toronto.
Article said they won a contest. Really, which one. So much for our vote.

Remember: Total spectrum dominance. It’s a art or war thing. Twitter set to ban even more accounts and based on web sites visited before/after.

#111 Bitcoinnaire on 11.20.17 at 11:11 pm

Garth, I have to congratulate you.

Your first acknowledgement of Bitcoin on the blog is posted on the eve of an epic calamity caused by the insolvency of one of the primary liquidity providers to the entire crypto environment.

Bravo.

See you guys down at $600 per BTC!

#112 My Wife Loves Garth on 11.20.17 at 11:12 pm

A major Bitcoin MLM scam was rampant in the GTA this summer. A virtual company called Gladiacoin was promising daily returns to investors.

The GladiaCoin.com scam claimed that they have a team of professional Bitcoin traders that are located all over the world. And this group of “traders” is actively trading BTC and earning huge profit.

The promoters made millions and stole bitcoins from the unsuspecting investors.

I personally was approached by some of the big promoters in Toronto and had the sense to stay far away. I’m surprised they aren’t in jail.

#113 Ronaldo on 11.20.17 at 11:16 pm

#8 Nick

Blockchain tech is great. But its no secret. Its improving/changing over time. It does more, and it does it faster. The price of a bitcoin is just ridiculous and nobody has been able to justify why it fundamentally makes sense.
———————————————————–
Agree with the blockchain idea and fundamentally the bitcoin price makes no sense. It’s nonsense. Just another speculative bubble ready to pop. In the same category as cabbage patch dolls and beanie babbies. But hey, if you think you can make a buck with it before it self destructs, fly at it. I feel safer using gift cards myself.

#114 r on 11.20.17 at 11:28 pm

9 Terry on 11.20.17 at 5:59 pm
Bitcoin, Tesla, Netflix, Amazon, Facebook …. etc….. These are all speculative zombie entities and companies that create NO PROFITS WHATSOEVER! They have been a going concern, (trend), for a while but they are in fact a big fat zero! They will all be out of business very shortly.

Facebook NOT profitable? I beg to differ!

#115 wallflower on 11.20.17 at 11:49 pm

#39 AK on 11.20.17 at 7:14 pm
What is Bitcoin?

Is it an asset or currency ?
=======
Bitcoin is branded digital code that requires more energy to “run” it every time it transacts or “replicates.”

#116 jon on 11.20.17 at 11:58 pm

Well if you think your crypto wallet is safe, see latest news on $30+ million stolen from Tether, crypto that copies usd. LOL this isn’t the first time a major crypto has been hacked.

https://www.coindesk.com/tether-claims-30-million-stable-token-stolen-attacker/

#117 Young & foolish on 11.21.17 at 12:10 am

Timely commentary …. We need more on this.
Thanks Garth

#118 NoName on 11.21.17 at 1:10 am

Now that scotch is mentioned, on a Saturday I got my self some Canadian scotch, Glen Breton rare 10, can’t be called scotch, but it is one. What up with that, after all it is made in Nova Scotia.
4 Glen’s in house and one on a side of the house when it’s raining…

#119 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 1:50 am

I’ve been in crypto currencies for 5 years. Let me dispell a few myths and falacies written by various people here, including Garth. If you guys value facts, then read on:

1. Anonymous – Bitcoin by default is not anonymous, it’s considered pseudonymous. Your account number and how many coins you have and have transacted and exactly when are recorded on the blockchain for ETERNITY (well as long as Bitcoin lasts), and the ledger is IMMUTABLE, so nobody can alter it. Also Bitcoin nodes can collect IP information about who is sending or receiving Bitcoins through their nodes. So does this sound like an Anonymous currency to you? Nope. You’d be really dumb to to do criminal things with Bitcoin. Now your name isn’t on the ledger, and neither is your IP address, but with the right skillset and tools, you can be traced and found. How do you think they busted all those drug criminals after Silk Road got shut down? How do you think they busted the Russian guys with the BTC-E exchange? Bitcoin is NOT anonymous! Now, I will conceed that if you are an IT security expert, you can, by layering on various tools and methods make your transactions actually anonymous, but Bitcoin by itself and transactions you can make by default are NOT anonymous, it takes great skill to make them so. You want to make fully anonymous transactions? Do them in Monero & Zcash. Not even the NSA or FBI can trace anything on those crypto currencies.

2. Bitcoin has been hacked exactly ONCE. Back in 2010 somebody found a bug and created 1 Billion Bitcoins.. within hours this was discovered, the bug was fixed, the transactions rolled back and since then… for 7.5+ years in a row, exposed to the Internet with a $100 BILLION bounty on its back… BITCOIN has NOT been hacked! What’s been hacked were people’s individual’s PCs and Bitcoins stolen as a result, or Bitcoin exchanges, which are again just somebody’s computers/servers that were not properly protected. Saying Bitcoin is hacked because somebody hacked an exchange is like saying somebody hacked the US dollar because some bank branch got robbed. It’s simple ignorance.

3. Bitcoin will disapear if the Internet is not available or the power goes down. WRONG. Bitcoin is a distributed ledger on a global scale. A copy of the ledger exists in over 150 countries world wide! When was the last time the Internet and/or power went out in 150 countries at the same time? But for the sake of arguement let’s say it does in the future? For starters, we’d have much bigger problems to deal with, but as far as Bitcoin is concerned it’s stored on hard drives and “non-volatile” memory. That means, when you power off your computer and it gets also disconnected from the Internet with your bitcoins in it, then turn it back on 3 days later, your bitcoins don’t disapear, they are still accessible to you. The worst that would happen if EVERY single Bitcoin node went down is that when power & Internet comes back, the Bitcoin network would figure out which ledger is the longest, then validate all the transactions on it, then replicate it globally again. It’s part of the protocol already.

4. Bitcoin is a form of money, just not your standard fiat (government) money. It can be possesed and hoarded, and in fact that’s part of what drives up the price immensely. There’s a finite supply (21 million by the year 2140), and so people hoard it, by not spending it. Bitcoin is the biggest transfer of Wealth the world has ever seen since oil was discovered. Bitcoin, or something like it, is going to be worth TRILLIONS of dollars in market cap. We’re already 1/5th of the way there by some measures.

5. The downside of bitcoin from an investment perspective is 100%. The upside is 10’s of thousands of percent. Well, maybe now it’s less than that, but it’s still a heck of a lot more than 100%. Those are pretty damn good odds if you ask me, and if you look at some of the other crypto currencies that are unquestionably already better than Bitcoin but worth a fraction of Bitcoin, then those are an incredible investment opportunity. I personally think Bitcoin is like WebCrawler… or Friendster… It’s a first generation. It won’t be the Google of Crypto currencies, it’s already too slow, can’t scale and over politicized. It’s not going to 0 in my opinion, but 5 years from now, it will probably no longer be the king of crypto currencies.

6. There are now more PHds involved in crypto currencies than Google, Facebook and Amazon have… combined! There are now HUNDREDS of bluechip companies like Microsoft, Cisco, Google, Intel, IBM, HP, Mastercard and others involved in this space. Ignore this at your own peril!

Here’s some educational material for those that wish to better understand this technology. It’s actually quite mind bending at first because it is a nerdy technology that even most nerds struggle to understand at first. SO give yourself some time, but eventually you will understand enough to ‘get it’.

1.Canadian Senate Hearing on Bitcoin – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNGFZDO8mM (Oct 8, 2014 – 2 hrs) – highly recommended (yes I know it’s Senate hearing, but I assure you it’s not a boring one).

2. What are Blockchains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WG7D47tGb0 (3 mins)

3. How Bitcoin Works under the hood (5 mins – non technical) https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_108619231&feature=iv&src_vid=l9jOJk30eQs&v=t5JGQXCTe3c

4. How Bitcoin Works under the hood – the 22 minute technical version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE

5. Netflix – Banking on Bitcoin (talks about some of the players & history)

6. Trust Disrupted (Documentary) – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BxztuA-BT4

7. Ulterior States – (Documentary) – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQGQXy0RIIo

#120 ;-) on 11.21.17 at 1:53 am

Our current economic paradigm is unsustainable, we all know that. What we don’t know is what that will be which replaces it. Maybe Bitcoin, but I think probably something bigger. Time will tell… probably 2 or 3 cycles (7 to 10 years per) out.

#121 LovingMisestoPieces on 11.21.17 at 1:54 am

There are interesting areas in this space. Consider for instance Gridcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324118.0), which uses the computing power of Proof-of-Work to further math and science through UC Berkeley’s distributed computing framework. Also subject-focused coins such as Marscoin, EvergreenCoin, the marvelous 23-Skidoo and Dobbscoin, personality-branded coins [ImpeachTrump, Trump, Putin, AngelaMerkel, BillMurray, HoChiMinh, Lenin, Bolivar, — no Bastiat or Rothbard’s_Ethics_of_LibertyCoin yet… alas etc.). There are various coins that focus on or cater to a region/city (off the top of my head there’s a Siberian, a Finnish, an Estonian, Amsterdam, Brazil, Greece, Catalan, Kazakh, Northern Italy, NYC, Canada, etc.)

Morever, there are various proof-of-stake coins (in various percentages) that give the cryptocurrency-equivalent of dividend yield/”cash-flow”. Masternodes are a similar mechanism — consider Dash ($3.67 billion US market cap today), for instance.

As characterized in this 900-plus page tome (https://www.scribd.com/document/59166705/Money-Bank-Credit-and-Economic-Cycles-Jesus-Huerta-de-Soto) and exhaustively in Murray Rothbard’s _History_ here: (https://mises.org/library/history-money-and-banking-united-states-colonial-era-world-war-ii), the symbiosis between banks and governments goes back to Ancient Greece, through Renaissance Italy, to Northern Europe (Sweden, Amsterdam, Britian, Prussia), and then to North America. Meanwhile, the ideas of mercantilism (except for its revival in the US lately) and most command-economies, autocratic regimes have usually flopped over that time but our options haven’t expanded from some of the “paleo”/legacy institutions.

The explosion of digital/cryptocurrencies evident here: https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/ simply represents other options of stores-of-value. It’s money for people that don’t want a nanny or a paternal state but to live in a country as a free adult willing to take the consequences of action/inaction.

Besides, when the futurists and other STEM-afficionados move to a truly laissez-faire seastead (seasteading.org), some other Galt’s Gulch, other permutation of a utopia, or make greater tangible strides towards becoming more than a one-planet-species (https://www.mars-one.com, L5 Society) why should they limit their means of indirect exchange to credits issued by banks on-the-order of nine times the deposits they hold on hand and not consider alternatives? This actually will benefit society at large, in my view (but it will be hard for people that want to firmly affix horse-blinders and not adapt to the future).

Consider also the “Phases” section in the article here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions . Often new ideas don’t hit their stride until the old-guard has died off or is no longer in the mainstream.

#122 ;-) on 11.21.17 at 1:55 am

Think the Exponential Function.

#123 Jay Currie on 11.21.17 at 2:18 am

Years ago a guy told me that aluminium was really just electricity in solid form. And he was right. Bauxite is common as dirt. In parts of the world, it is dirt. Pump a lot of electricity through it and you get aluminium.

Bitcoin is another store of electricity. Not quite so useful as aluminium but essentially the same thing. Run your super, duper, chipset for a while and you will generate a bit of a bitcoin.

One is reminded of Terry Southern’s wonderful character in The Magic Christian: “Guy Grand (“‘Grand’s the name, easy green’s the game'”) launches on his career of luxury-style sadism when he gets a million laughs out of building an enormous vat on a choice site in Chicago’s loop. Into this super-cauldron, which he fills with boiling offal, he tosses $1,000,000 in $100 bills. His appetite honed by this riot of mirth, Grand (“‘Wise-guy or ‘grand guy’– call me anything you like… as long as you don’t call me ‘late for chow’! Eh? Ho-ho.”) goes on to greater triumphs.” Needless to say the public hops right to it.

It takes quite a long time for a full-on mania to catch on. In The Sun Also Rises Hemmingway describes the other, and inevitable, side of the coin:

“How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked.

“Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.”

I suspect we are at the “suddenly” phase of the bitcoin mania. And then…

#124 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 2:24 am

7. Bitcoin is not quantum computing proof – Correct. The implication of this is that once a real quantum computer is created (and none have been yet, no matter how much marketing hype IBM puts out), then somebody with a quantum computer can monopolize the Bitcoin mining, making it centralized and essentially have the power to alter the Bitcoin ledger. I won’t go into the details of this here, but yes, this is theoretically possible with a quantum computer. However: There already are at least 2 clones that claim to be quantum computing proof. How can they claim this if there’s no quantum computers to test them? Because we already understand how quantum computers work and what types of problems they can solve millions of times faster than today’s computers, but we also know which types of math problems they can’t solve any faster than normal computers, so simply, you use implement a cryptographic that quantum computers can’t crack. That simple, but obviously the math in all this is Phd level stuff. BTW, at the first whiff of a real quantum computer existing, Bitcoin can simply ‘hard fork’ and implement this new Proof of Work (mining algorythm) that is quantum resistant. At present, the Bitcoin experts believe this threat is easily 4+ years away so it’s not at the top of the todo list for 2018.

8. Bitcoin is too complicated for most people to be able to use as Money. Wrong. Bitcoin is extremely complicated under the hood, even after 5 years, I do not consider myself an expert and I’m an IT guy and read about this stuff weekly. However; to use Bitcoin, it can be extremely simple after you get a 3 minute lesson on how to use a Bitcoin wallet. It is as easy to use as scanning your barcode on your phone’s Starbucks App and buying Frapuchinno.

9. Bitcoin is going to be the end of government money. Wrong. Government money isn’t going away for 1 simple reason: You can’t pay your taxes in Bitcoin. Governments (by the dozens) are investigating blockchains so that they can issue their own digital cash to their citizens. These upcoming altered versions of Bitcoin, will have vastly different properties. They will have your real ID tied to every transaction and account number, and every single transaction you make will be 100% traceable back to you. It’ll be like 1984 on steroids. Today Visa can monitor your every transaction…governments want that ability too. Oh and the government’s version of Bitcoin will surely not have a limited supply. That much is guaranteed. Enjoy your anonymous govenrment issued cash while it still exists! Your grand children won’t know what that is by the time they enter the work force.

10. Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. Actually no it isn’t. “BitConnect” (a Bitcoin clone with some alterations) however, is most definitely a POnzi Scheme. Stay away from that one like the plague. Saying Bitcoin is a ponzi requires an actual intellectual arguement to prove your case. I have yet to read one. Bitcoin is backed by math and its genius protocols. As such, it is incorruptable, imutable and highly limited in supply. Further, it has novel utility: Allows you to transact globally, 24/7, with low fees, without anyone’s permission, create as many accounts as you want for free, no ID required, from anywhere in the world.

11. Why should you trust Bitcoin more than government issued money? Because government issued money is not trustworthy and because in reality 99.99% of the population has absolutely no idea who issues our money or how it comes into being and therein lies all the power – hidden in plain sight. Educate yourself – watch on youtube “Money As Debt”. Not even 98% of employees working in banks understand how money is created.

12. There’s only going to be 21 Million Bitcoins, we have 7 Billion people on this planet. There’s not enough Bitcoins to go around… or… $8,000 for 1 Bitcoin? I can’t afford that. Wrong. Bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places. That means everyone, even the poorest in Africa can afford to buy fractions of a bitcoin.

13. Governments can just shut down Bitcoin and make it worthless. Not so easy. There’s 209 countries out there. Not even the G20 can agree on anything without spending years debating it, and that’s only 20 countries. Also governments are full of old people who have no clue how crypto currencies work. FOr the sake of arguement let’s say they figure out how to crush Bitcoin. FIne… there’s already 1,000 other Crypto Currencies out there. It’ll be a hella long game of Whack-A-Mole.

14.Bitcoin is a scam! The prices are unregulated and exhanges can ‘white wash’ trades. Just because some exchanges can and have manipulated prices, doesn’t mean they all do it. There’s not over 100 exchanges globally, and decentralized – mathemtically provably fair decentralized exchanges – are being created as we exist, so this problem will go away. Also, you think HSBC, JP Morgan, Goldman etc has never done anything illegal with money? These guys get sued every other year for doing BILLIONS in illicit/fraudulent/criminal transactions. Which do you prefer? A mathematically provably fair exchange, or trading through a regulated broker that is cheating in the background anyway? Did you not read FlashBoys?

15. Bitcoin mining is horrible for the environment, already the total power required to mine Bitcoins is greater than X country uses in an entire year. True. However, there’s already several crypto currencies changing the mining to no longer require hardware and power on that scale, precisely for this reason. Look up Proof of Stake, or Delegated Proof of Stake on youtube. This mining methodology will soon be more common than what Bitcoin uses (PoW – Proof of Work).

Look people, Bitcoin is not perfect, and I can outline several flaws it has, but I’d prefer people made some actual effort to understand it better in the first place, than just to rant off incorrect information. The flaws in Bitcoin can ALL be overcome. Not all of them have, but within a few short years, they all will – at which point, we’ll see an inflection point where most nation states and Enterprises and Banks will switch to Blockchain based crypto currencies. This is nearly guaranteed at this point. Will it be Bitcoin? Highly unlikely – at least as it currently stands.

Educate yourselves. This is the biggest financial revolution of your life time. It’s worth understanding the future of money. Your family’s financial well being may depend on it.

#125 Evangeline on 11.21.17 at 3:01 am

“Of course, why someone who thinks the world might blow up would put all their faith in money that only exists if you have a good Internet connection and a charged-up phone is curious. Our gossamer grid might be the first piece of infrastructure to fail. Go figure.”

Even before I read Snoopy’s comment, I thought that “gossamer grid” was the best description of our inescapable technological infrastructure that I’ve ever read.

#126 Arne on 11.21.17 at 3:03 am

I enjoyed both the article and the comments. It’s a perfect example of expounding authoritatively about something not properly understood. It takes me back to those dire Y2K warnings and those who advised that investing in Google when it was $75/share as pissing your money away.

Still, I do see Coinbase mentioned in some of the comments. I would avoid them like the plague. Coinbase is very easy to use, but if you are contemplating using them, just read a few reviews on TrustPilot first. That should cool your jets.

BitStamp is the far superior alternative.

#127 Evangeline on 11.21.17 at 3:11 am

Just as there have been books about the tulips, there will be books about the bitcoin craze. As someone said, it is a Ponzi scheme.

Interesting trivia about the filmmaker guy whose signature now adorns U.S. currency:

“Mnuchin’s mother was a longtime investor with Bernie Madoff. After his mother died in early 2005, Mnuchin and his brother liquidated her investments, making $3.2 million. A Madoff trustee sued to retrieve the money from the Mnuchins, but a court ruled that the Madoff trust could only recoup money from those who had cashed out within two years before the December 2008 collapse of Madoff’s company.[93]”
Source: Wikipedia

#128 fake news or fairy tales? on 11.21.17 at 3:35 am

I remember “news” articles about guys digging up old PCs from land fills..

*********[quote from further up]

I almost bought Bit Coin in 2009 for 7 cents .

E Waste is a huge business in China. Hard drives ended up being the most valuable component because some hard drives contained Bit Coin. No doubt, they looked and consolidated them, and someone in China sitting on a mountain of Bit Coin.
***********

Can’t wait to read in a museum in 200 years how the people of the early 21st century discovered how antiquated and outdated PC hardware created personal fortunes of unimaginable size. Of course the museum is partially funded by donations from early BTC Trillionaires.

How do I live to visit a museum in 200 years you might wonder?

Well, of course I’ll be dying before then but with all my BTC fortunes I am cryogenically frozen and my heirs will use their pocket change from all the BTC wealth to build the technology to revive me.

BTC today $8,000.. in 50 years $8,000,000,000 and in another 150 years it will be worth 8 million quadrillion per single coin. I’m not making this up! Trust me! Buy some now!

#129 Dolce Vita on 11.21.17 at 3:40 am

Yet again, more unexplainable changes, well to me, in Detached prices for YVR at Zolo.ca:

Oct. 21, 2017:
https://i.imgur.com/u7YTcSh.jpg

Nov. 21, 2017:
https://i.imgur.com/qMXIJha.jpg

1 month apart. Number changes all over the map.

What are they making it up, as they go along?

#130 down_boy on 11.21.17 at 3:50 am

Meanwhile… BCH to BTG transaction now stalled for hours. BTG overloaded. Filed refund ticket with backlogged exchange. I should have checked their twitter feed before pulling the trigger. Second delayed tx in a week. Lots of whales splashing from alts to majors and back with minnows like me trying to predict. B-b-billions. I can see the waves in the charts. Fun ride for some play money, currently in purgatory, but I will get it back… long after the trade was relevant. Some on the crypto forum get a little anxious. One said he has 12k floating mid-air, oh well. Keep that transaction ID handy. Pleasant endorphines when it works.

Some blockchains are legit and will change how we transact. They have utility, efficiency and purpose. They’re boring, though. This is the introductory stage in the product lifecycle. Giddyup.

#131 Gravy Train on 11.21.17 at 6:11 am

#57 For those about to flop… on 11.20.17 at 8:02 pm
“Netflix is the obvious standout. $1,000 invested ten years ago would be worth a whopping $51,966 today, which is by far and away the best performance in our graph….

“We hasten to add that a stock’s past performance is certainly no guarantee of future returns….”

That last sentence is hard to spot in the article, Floppy. I hope that folks don’t rush out to buy Netflix stock based on the meteoric rise in its price. The stock price is currently trading at almost 200 times earnings, which seems quite bubbly to me—but then again to each his own! :)

#132 Dharma Bum on 11.21.17 at 6:47 am

Bitcoin, shmitcoin.

Can somebody spot me a C-note?

#133 I’m stupid on 11.21.17 at 6:58 am

There was a time when gold had no value.

My great grandparents owned a farm in southern Italy during WW2. Farmers were expected to give their crops to the gov

#134 Mike in Toronto on 11.21.17 at 7:11 am

#85 acdel

“You gave an example on how Bitcoin could be transferred to a credit card (i think), but let say I had one bitcoin, could I go to a bank and say that I would like to transfer the amount of that one bitcoin to a foreign currency in a specific country as long as I had an account. Would the value of the bitcoin (or others) be actually converted to cold hard cash? Thank you.”

A bitcoin exchange will do exactly this.

I don’t think it should be thought of as “transfer to a foreign currency” though. It would be 1. with a domestic exchange, buy bitcoins. 2. withdraw the bitcoins into your own wallet. 3. with a domestic exchange in the foreign country, open an account 4. deposit your bitcoins in the domestic exchange in the foreign country. 5. use the domestic exchange in the foreign country to deposit money into your domestic bank account in the foreign country.

“Foreign” gets really confusing here because you’re acting as an person under two different nations.

#135 NoName on 11.21.17 at 7:54 am

Question

Is it just me or there is more people that see Bitcoin more as commodity than currency.

#136 kman on 11.21.17 at 7:56 am

It’s a matter of trust not unlike the fiat currency.
As you can see here there a lot to choose from:
https://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/
It’s a new way to transfer your wealth, specially in countries that have caps on it. It’s a lot easier than moving gold or gems.
As for internet and power going down, that’s the same as digital gold. Unless you have physical metal, you are at the mercy of those elements.

#137 John Dough PhD (Reality) on 11.21.17 at 7:57 am

Apologies for the length, but if it prevents just one person from putting their money into the digital incinerator known as Bitcoin it is well worth it.
Unlike other financial manias, bitcoins have no intrinsic value. It is nothing, but it is a limited edition nothing. It would be illegal except the vice squad hasn’t yet figured out how to get their cut. The mystery surrounding the cryptocurrency is what provided the initial allure. The rumour that the serious money grubbers are showing an interest is what propels the BTC higher.

Cryptography has a noble history, and these buried messages have saved Kings and won wars. The message in the blockchain is gobbledygook. If there was something useful, say intel on neo-Nazi troop movements, the BTC could be more than an expensive curiosity.

Ask a computer to solve the G&M’s cryptic crossword and it will founder. Instead, give it a mysterious number (say, 1010001) and ask it to convert it to another number (say, 100101) using a set number of operations and it will find the method. A child of 7, well-versed in Base2 could come up with the answer. Now try to find the method for 100000 number pairs with a varying number of operations. A computer can do it, but it takes time, and energy. (note: the real BTC calculations are much more complex, but equally irrelevant)

Finding the correct method entitles the person paying the hydro to one shiny new bitcoin. The bitcoin creation is recorded in a transaction log called the blockchain, which also contains the 1’s and 0’s that makes up the number pairs. So the bits and bytes change after every transaction; every handful is different. Which is why the poor sap who burned 10 gigajoules without arriving at the answer has to start over.

The bitcoins are sent securely and electronically (there is no other way), just like Visa, Debit, or SWIFT transactions. The difference is that there is some guarantee of payment in hard cash with the latter methods. The upshot is that doing some frivolous calculations creates a frivolous reward that some people value highly, at the moment. BTC what is it good for? Absolutely nothing, say it again.

#138 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.21.17 at 8:06 am

@#126 Fairy Tales
“BTC today $8,000.. in 50 years $8,000,000,000 and in another 150 years it will be worth 8 million quadrillion per single coin. I’m not making this up! Trust me! Buy some now!”

+++++

Yep.

As valuable as a Zimbabwean bank Note…..

https://www.google.ca/search?q=zimbabwe+100+trillion+notes&hl=en-CA&gbv=2&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiutunW3c_XAhUB3GMKHWkHC_8QsAQIXg

#139 Millennial Realist on 11.21.17 at 8:09 am

Garth, I enjoy the chuckle now that you are calling yourself a paleo, the term I used to describe you a week ago.

However, since that term is my intellectual property, WUL tells me I should be charging you royalties any time you use it.

You can pay me in bitcoin, no problem :)

#140 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.21.17 at 8:16 am

@#110 My Wife Loves Garth
“…..The promoters made millions and stole bitcoins from the unsuspecting investors.
I personally was approached by some of the big promoters in Toronto and had the sense to stay far away. I’m surprised they aren’t in jail…..”
++++++

In Scamada? Pfffft.

Even if they were caught, convicted and sentenced….they’d appeal and appeal and appeal.

Very few criminals seem to serve real time in Canada these days and a white collar fraud…..?
Easy money.

#141 Gravy Train on 11.21.17 at 8:25 am

#123 Evangeline on 11.21.17 at 3:01 am
“… I thought that ‘gossamer grid’ was the best description of our inescapable technological infrastructure that I’ve ever read.”

An author whose writing style reminds me of Garth’s has written lines like “… for a hit of the Web….” and “… when confronted by small men doing big and stupid things, we need to resist….” See Bill McKibben’s Radio Free Vermont. I bet SM would like this book; he could learn a thing or two from Bill’s writing style—on second thought, probably not! :)

#142 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.21.17 at 8:45 am

Crime and Punishment?

11 YEARS after the crime and the accused will, eventually, maybe, possibly ….go to trial.

IF his lawyers dont have it all thrown out due to the unconstitutionality of the “delay to trial”…….

http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://vancouversun.com/news/crime/more-than-a-decade-after-surrey-six-murders-jamie-bacons-trial-delayed-again&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjwnOOB5s_XAhVO2WMKHVOSBbAQFggaMAE&usg=AOvVaw1MPuhMMxgq8bhPftCdeDId

#143 The Technical Analyst, CSTA, CPD on 11.21.17 at 9:11 am

Odd this about BTC is it is based on nothing, thin air, in fact the complete opposite of gold and less “solid” than fiat currency.

And just think, those that are so risk adverse to not invest in a balanced portfolio will buy a exceptionally risky asset… bitcoin.

“Bitcoin, it is not just a bubble, it’s the whole soap pail!” (TM)

#144 Cketus on 11.21.17 at 9:12 am

Boys, no luck on the new hideaway yet, but I have seen the future. I met a smart fella at the Club with a PhD in IT. Don’t know what it means exacly, but he’s got the carpel tunnal so he must be legit. He showd me the new ladies of the ethernet, aka internet porn. Some of it was dirty, but I saw the bigger pitcher. No cover, no bar tab, no taxi ride, no “hurry up”. I think we should buy into this instead of accomodashuns. Your thoughts? Cketus

#145 Rooster on 11.21.17 at 9:20 am

#117 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 1:50 am
#122 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 2:24 am

Get carpal tunnel already …. ya goddamn court jester

#146 CFC on 11.21.17 at 10:16 am

Just follow the talent. Where are a lot of smart, t-shirt wearing, nerds going these days? They’re working in the blockchain space. And the creme of the crop gets to develop for Bitcoin. The guys that dress and speak so smoothly, looking to make 2%+ fees off your money go into finance.

Sure it’s not working perfectly yet, but they’re working on it. Just put in $100 or whatever part of your portfolio is dedicated to moon shots. Even a little skin in the game will encourage you to look into it deeper.

#147 Dmitry on 11.21.17 at 10:30 am

#122 GeniusMoney

All the arguments you make is about how blockchain technology and crypto-currencies from their theoretical side are good.
This is common mistake is that people are trying to present the blockchain technology and crypto-currency as revolutionary (and maybe it is as technology and in theory), but that does not mean that Bitcoin as instantiation (one of many) is anything but scam and ponzy schema.
It’s just like traders – yes stock options trading is legal and all good, but there’s ponzi schemas based on this that are scam, so stay away from these, much like you stay away from Bitcoin scam.
Bitcoin scam and blockchain technology and crypto-currencies in general are NOT the same thing.

#148 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 11.21.17 at 10:38 am

Garth I just heard that Trudeau has opened the Canadian Infrastructure Bank in China and put 1/2 billion Canadian taxpayers dollars into it. Check it out with Pierre Pollivre Finance Critic for the Conservatives. Please God is Trudeau insane. Can you do some sleuthing on this for us lowly Canadians???

#149 acdel on 11.21.17 at 10:47 am

#132 Mike in Toronto

Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.

#150 Ed. on 11.21.17 at 11:39 am

#102 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.20.17 at 2:04 pm
Charlie Don’t Surf…. no more

Excellent! Remember to respect your audience. Not all have seen Apocalypse Now!, nor may they be familiar with Charlie’s predictions of the Apocalypse. Even those geezers who lived thru the Age of Aquarius might think they read those dire predictions here. But again, it works for me.

#151 islandgirl on 11.21.17 at 12:07 pm

“But you can’t ignore this thing.”
The bridges are already being built between traditional markets and the blockchain sector. Futures markets coming soon… and crypto miners are the new juniors on the venture exchange.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUg57tj9DXAhVBw2MKHTE2BcIQFgg3MAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com%2Fglobe-investor%2Finvestment-ideas%2Ffrank-giustra-backed-firm-hive-switches-from-mining-gold-to-bitcoin%2Farticle36572363%2F&usg=AOvVaw3u6xCfUp09Yns_9gih7Dks

#152 kman on 11.21.17 at 12:12 pm

For the old guys that find it hard to deal with digital wallets and coin exchanges there are stocks that can reward investors if cryptos keep going higher.
I found v.HIVE and threw some dough at it as a long shot.
I’m not recommending it, do your own DD.

#153 Evangeline on 11.21.17 at 12:16 pm

#139 Gravy Train

Thanks, I’ve never heard him or of him, I’ll give him a listen.

#154 HaHaHa on 11.21.17 at 12:24 pm

Who cares if bitcoin is a scam. Wish I would have got in and got out. Just like pot stocks. Took my 125% upside and got out. Opinions are meaningless. Especially when calling for a house crash since 2008. Gold to hit $3000 an ounce. Yada Yada yada

#155 Rooster on 11.21.17 at 12:34 pm

#144 CFC on 11.21.17 at 10:16 am
Just follow the talent. Where are a lot of smart, t-shirt wearing, nerds going these days? They’re working in the blockchain space.
———_———————–
And two decades ago they were in the vapourware space. Not carbon panties for your CFC emissions, more like software, but softer. The money that poured into that sinkhole is gone forever. Talent my ass.

#156 Daniel James on 11.21.17 at 12:44 pm

#100 akashic record

What’s the purpose and role of outsourcing the creation of money for the state?

Why does the state need a third party for that?
———————————————————–
Shhhh! Garth would never answer that because he answers to the financial parasite class (but I still like him).

At least Bitcoin is helping the ‘boors’ understand the precarious and worthless nature of their own fiat money, because every argument against bitcoin is actually an argument against fiat money.

HERE IS the million dollar answer to your excellent question:

There will always be the threat of gangsters and thugs who hoard the prevailing currency (currently calling themselves banks), so having a central bank as an entity involved in corralling these thugs via the ‘borrowed’ money and debt creation system is a way of mitigating and directing the economic prosperity of the masses in the forward direction. Ever since the Medici, private bankers are unfortunately, a necessary heat-sink of sorts for the representation of all that is evil about humanity. (Yes, I hate bankers).

ENTER cryptocurrencies:

Cryptocurrencies still have a long way to go to divest fully from central authoritarian control, but make no mistake, they will form an open and transparent exchange and the financial parasites will have nowhere to run. The bitcoin bubble is allowing them to launder whatever money they can before the Big Revealing.

And BTW Leo… it seems you have completely lost your mind. Congrats!

#157 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 12:51 pm

#145 Dmitry

Here’s some reasons why blockchains are revolutionary:

1. For the first time in the history of humanity we can have a currency that cannot be counterfeited. Do you know how much value that has to governments and banks?

2. For the first time in the history of humanity we have a currency that can be sent & received on a global scale, *instantly* with a higher degree of trust than a wire transfer.

3. For the first time… we have a currency that is not centrally managed. There is no government, no bank, no CEO, no company that controls Bitcoin (or its cousins). Yet it works.

4. For the first time… we have the ability for machines to have “bank” accounts. Why do machines need bank accounts and money? For the micro-transaction requirements of IoT (Internet of Things). I.e. when your fridge needs to pay the grocery store to auto-order more milk because its internal camera noticed you are down to 5.3% left in your milk jug and it knows your baby will consume 19.4% of a 1 litre bottle on average per night.

5. For the first time… we have the ability to do commerce on a global scale with complete strangers, with full certainty that your transaction will get from A to B without any possibility of funds being frozen, stalled, questioned or otherwise meddled with.

6. For the first time… we have the ability to send 100 Million dollars in seconds, for fractions of a penny in fees.

7. For the first time… we have a currency that doesn’t care if you are black, white, anti-government, a terrorist, a nobel prize winner, from another government that opposes your views or from an inocent civilian that has been erroneously convicted and all funds frozen… Blockchain is censorship resistant, funds and accounts cannot be frozen, garnished or used for a bank bail-out or bail-in. For the first time, people have financial soverignty!

8. For the first time… we have programmable money. Companies can create a simple script to auto-pay XYZ benefactor if ABC event occurs.

9. For the first time… we have upgradeable money. Money that gets more advanced over time. Faster, cheaper to transact, more secure, with more features, etc.

10. For the first time… we have the ability to do business between companies using shared databases (permissioned blockchains) to logistically track every single individual product throughout the entire supply chain. Imagine having to do a food recall across 1000 walmart stores, when in reality only 3 are affected. Or having to throw out literally tonnes of food in the garbage because it *might* be from the same farm/source as the problematic one? No more with blockchains. Extreme precision will be possible with logistics. This is not theory. Here’s a video from Walmart and IBM on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV0KXBxSoio

I could go on for another 90 examples of why Blockchain is revolutionary, but I will end it with this… Do you know who thinks blockchains are a scam? People who haven’t researched it. I haven’t even began to explain all the non-financial use cases of blockchain.

PEOPLE – This is the biggest digital revolution since the invention of the Internet. Stop posting nonsense and go do some research. Blockchains will disrupt EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRY out there – no exceptions!

Here is a list of over 150+ highly recognized companies world wide that are hiring and training entire teams on blockchains… Do you really think they would invest so many millions into this space if it was a scam? Do you really think that you are smarter than the heads of all these companies? Time for a reality check.

https://entethalliance.org/members/

#158 IHCTD9 on 11.21.17 at 12:55 pm

#146 CHERRY BLOSSOM on 11.21.17 at 10:38 am

Garth I just heard that Trudeau has opened the Canadian Infrastructure Bank in China and put 1/2 billion Canadian taxpayers dollars into it. Check it out with Pierre Pollivre Finance Critic for the Conservatives. Please God is Trudeau insane. Can you do some sleuthing on this for us lowly Canadians???
______________________________________

This is pretty well flushed out already. The Libs want to attract private investment dollars, both domestic and foreign; to be put up alongside public dollars towards creation of our public infrastructure (because we can’t afford to build our own highways and bridges anymore.)

This plan unfortunately, would create a “user fee” or “toll” based product. It also would involve our own government working towards the future interests of any foreign private ownership of the project. No different than what Ontario’s electricity grid will look like after Wynne is done selling off 60% of it – effective control by a collection of private interests, backed by the power and authority of government.

I have my doubts as to how successful we’ll be luring private funds into public projects without massive deregulation and relinquishing of future control of the product.

We already have government enforcing collection of unpaid 407 tolls by not renewing drivers licenses. These toll fees go to a private corporation. I’ve not heard how much the province receives as compensation for this service from said private corp…

Your taxes used to pay for all this stuff.

IMHO, if we’re broke enough to hand public infrastructure over to private interests to turn a profit on, we’re also broke (and stupid) enough to re-write our laws on behalf of these corps giving them all the control they want so that they will help pay for the project in question.

Just another byproduct of living in a broke country. Trudeau has “committed” $180 billion for new projects. That’s almost 2/3rds of our entire budget for a whole year, and we can’t even afford that. We run deficits every year, and the debt goes up every year. Where is 180 Billion going to come from? Does Trudeau have a magic wand?

The best case scenario is the plan flops, the 35 Billion “investment” ends up in a few Chinese bank accounts, and we finally start looking at pulling in the reigns.

If the plan does fly, better start learning to avoid taxes like a boss, and get a good GPS to avoid driving on the private highways and crossing the private bridges. Seriously dogs, there is absolutely no good news here at all.

#159 Wrk.dover on 11.21.17 at 1:04 pm

If Bitcoin really is a rally clever, convenient, quality device for astute purchasers of value, it would be readily available at Lee Valley, wouldn’t it?

#160 Wrk.dover on 11.21.17 at 1:05 pm

edit: really not rally

#161 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.21.17 at 1:07 pm

@#148 Ed

While I admire Robert Duvals’ role in Apocalypse Now

I was thinking more along the lines of …. “Charlie” don’t surf…no more

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiP09uQodDXAhXlyFQKHexNBPYQjhwIBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.storenvy.com%2Fproducts%2F16440666-charlie-dont-surf-shirt-charles-manson-t-shirt&psig=AOvVaw0-bZLtUKPKa4s20o8VA0DR&ust=1511374025138370

#162 Stan Brooks on 11.21.17 at 1:14 pm

As I said, there will be very little real returns from your CPP funds in the future.
Understated inflation will kill ya.
Any ‘surplus’ i.e. stolen from you money will be expropriated by government to pay for their benefits.

As for bitcoin, the very fact that the geniuses at CPP are considering ‘investments’ there is disturbing.

GT, maybe is time to return to the CRA?

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canadians-getting-bad-advice-taxman-150310840.html

It seems incompetence is everywhere these days.

#163 Balmuto on 11.21.17 at 1:30 pm

#145 Dmitry on 11.21.17 at 10:30 am

“Bitcoin scam and blockchain technology and crypto-currencies in general are NOT the same thing.”

This is exactly the line that all the big banks are peddling: the coins are a joke/scam/tulip bulbs but blockchain is brilliant, genius, an accidental by-product of an otherwise dumb idea. They’ll just co-opt the blockchain into their existing fiat-based model and make even more money doing the same thing but more efficiently.

And yet the coins just won’t go away. One would be wise not to ignore them as they have the potential to disrupt more than just the operations of existing financial intermediaries. The have the the potential to make financial intermediaries, at least the traditional kind, obsolete altogether.

#164 Ace Goodheart on 11.21.17 at 1:50 pm

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/09/29/elon-musk-says-new-rocket-will-fly-people-to-the-moon-mars-and-from-city-to-city-on-earth.html

Why can I not read this without breaking up laughing?

He did manage to retrieve one of his rockets from the ocean and has indicated it looks reusable.

To date he has not flown a single person to space.

I wonder if rockets require welding? If so there might be an issue….

#165 jess on 11.21.17 at 2:05 pm

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-scams/

Its collapse into bankruptcy last week – and the disappearance of $460 million, apparently stolen by hackers, and another $27.4 million missing from its bank accounts –
https://www.wired.com/2014/03/bitcoin-exchange/

As Mt. Gox trial opens in Tokyo, head of bankrupt bitcoin exchange …
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/…/mt-gox-trial-opens-tokyo-founder-bitcoin-exchange-de…
Jul 11, 2017 – The head of Mt. Gox, once the world’s largest exchange for bitcoin digital … losses of the digital currency by the business were the result of hacking. … “I swear to God I am not guilty,” Karpeles said in Japanese, reading out a …

#166 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 2:17 pm

19 Industries Blockchain will disrupt… (just as a starting point, by the time we’re done, every industry will be disrupted by blockchain).

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=19+industries+Blockchain+will+disrupt

#167 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 2:27 pm

Ok, last post on this… if you think you are too late to invest in blockchain because 1 Bitcoin = $8,000 USD, then you’d be wrong. Were you too late to invest in Internet startups after 1996 because Netscape had been released and was widely used? Nope. What about 1999? What about 2005? 2010?

It’s not too late to invest in Blockchain. Think about it…. the .COM bubble in 1999/2000 reached some $3-5 Trillion dollars at its peak (depending on your sources of data). That was primarily a North American/Nasdaq event. Blockchain’s entire market cap (all 1000+ crypto currencies in existence today) add up to around $230 Billion dollars. The Amazon/Facebook/Google of Blockchain does not yet exist, or if it does, it’s barely recognizable. $3 Trillion dollars in 1999 money is like $6 Trillion today. We are at $230 Billion… so by that measure we have 26,000% higher to go… but then, consider that blockchain is a GLOBAL industry, across 209 countries around the world. You think $6 Trillion will be the peak of the bubble? No my friends… more like $60 Trillion. So guess what… you are 9 years too late, but $59.8 Trillion early. Consider yourself lucky to have read my posts today.

PS. Bitcoin is extremely volatile and 80%+ corrections have occured in the past. 2017 has seen an 800% rise already. Is this the top for the short term? nobody knows… but 3 years ago $260 was a crazy high valuation for Bitcoin.. now $8,000 seems crazy… but what’s $8,000 x 26,000% ? Buy the dips, wait for a major correction, then backup the truck… and like stocks, get a diversified portfolio. Most of my money is not in Bitcoin, but alternative crypto currencies/blockchains with much improved functionality over Bitcoin that are by comparison highly under valued. Good luck out there!

#168 jess on 11.21.17 at 2:42 pm

Intel Chip Flaws Leave Millions of Devices Exposed
https://www.wired.com/story/intel-management-engine-vulnerabilities-pcs-servers-iot/

Security
Red alert! Intel patches remote execution hole that’s been hidden in chips since 2010
Vuln reported in March, now fix is coming…
By Chris Williams, US editor 1 May 2017 at 20:27
86 Reg comments SHARE ▼

Updated For the past seven years, millions of Intel chips have harbored a security flaw that can be potentially exploited to remotely control and infect systems with spyware.

Specifically, the bug is in Intel’s Active Management Technology (AMT), Standard Manageability (ISM) and Small Business Technology (SBT) firmware versions 6 to 11.6. According to Chipzilla, the security hole allows “an unprivileged attacker to gain control of the manageability features provided by these products.”

That means it is possible for hackers to log into a vulnerable computer’s hardware – right under the nose of the operating system – and silently tamper with the machine, install virtually undetectable malware, and so on, using AMT’s features. This is potentially possible across the network because AMT has direct access to the computer’s network hardware.

These insecure management features have been available in various, but not all, Intel chipsets for nearly a decade, starting with 2010’s Intel Q57 family, all the way up to this year’s Kaby Lake Core parts. Crucially, the vulnerability lies at the very heart of a machine’s silicon, out of sight of the operating system, its applications and any antivirus.

The programming blunder can only be fully addressed with a firmware-level update, and it is present in millions of chips. It is effectively a backdoor into computers all over the world.

#169 jess on 11.21.17 at 2:43 pm

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26755

INTEL-SA-00075 Detection and Mitigation Tool
Version: 1.0.3.215 (Latest) Date: 9/12/2017

#170 Dmitry on 11.21.17 at 2:53 pm

#155 GeniusMoney

Yes, exactly, all you’re saying is that blockchain is new technology of the future and Bitcoin as an instantiation of crypto-currency that merely uses that technology in some form is still a scam!
You can copy and paste few hundred pages and points of information about blockchain technology but that still not explain why Bitcoin is not a scam.

#171 Dan the IT Man on 11.21.17 at 3:01 pm

Here’s a nice list of the top 30 crypto currencies hacked recently… In my opinion, anyone “investing” in crypto currency is feeding the mafias and other terrorists organisations of this world.
https://wolfstreet.com/2017/11/21/tether-cryptocurrency-hacked-list-of-biggest-crypto-hacks-money-stolen/

#172 HaHaHa on 11.21.17 at 3:40 pm

Thanks #155 Genius Monkey… time will tell and my hat is off to those who got on this bandwagon and rode it for BIG profits. Only a Greater Fool would deny the wasted chance to make a quick buck. Investing is boring and adding a little spice to the portfolio is fun.

#173 Flower Man on 11.21.17 at 3:40 pm

Like the tulip-mania, bitcoin, the blockchain, will make an important contribution in transforming the market, in this case letting new money be like old money, e.g. to hide it. But talk of bitcoin as individual “currency” and “money” is all bulbshit.

#174 PastThePeak on 11.21.17 at 3:45 pm

#162 Ace Goodheart

It is surprising the number of people that just give Elon Musk a pass because he is “visionary”. That is true, but it doesn’t mean that the business of Tesla or SpaceX will ever make much profit. Right now I can’t see Tesla surviving as an independent, let alone making outsized profits in the future to justify its valuation.

But that is just one in a long line of data points that shows this expansion is getting long in the tooth. Bitcoin here is another. I suppose it is great that to have a digital currency that is (believed) to be global, not under control of a government, and not susceptible to counterfeit. I am just not sure why the value of this “currency” owned by no one (as opposed to a business which generates profits) keeps escalating in value. If you held some obscure currency that you were assured would just keep rising in value (like some Zimbabwe $) would you not be suspicious?

Add to the above with Uber at a supposed $70B valuation but still losing money, RE in major markets going through the roof, a painting selling for $450M…you get the drift.

Low equity volatility, inflation contained, unemployment great and falling, AI just around the corner, green energy growing exponentially…Everything just looks perfect. That is usually when the fun starts to end.

#175 JohnnyBoy on 11.21.17 at 3:56 pm

#55 Bitcoin is a scam on 11.20.17 at 7:56 pm

Bitcoin is a scam. The prices on these unregulated online exchanges are driven by bots that trade among themselves at artificially increasing (and sometimes decreasing) prices, all to lure in naive greedy speculators. The trades take place among hundreds of thousands of bitcoin addresses owned by a handful of hackers, who by now are fabulously wealthy (assuming they have steadily been selling their bitcoins to the suckers they have been luring in). This is the big problem with Bitcoin and similar scams: there is no way to tell whether any number of transactions at specific prices are arms-length, or whether they are simply the same person trading with themselves at fake prices. Aside from this huge hole in Bitcoin, there is of course also the problem that a mere five miners (three of which the sons of chineses communist party members, who all regularly meet with eachother to discuss strategy) control almost all mining power; any majority of these (for example the three Chinese kids) could at any time alter the Blockchain, and do so backwards in time up to the last “checkpoint” (which by the way is determined by a small group of programmers in a dictatorial fashion, completely contradicting any claim that powers in Bitcoin are distributed); if, sorry make that when, they do that, it is as if none of the transactions from that checkpoint on never happened. Poof, there go all your bitcoins, up in smoke. Then again, they were just that from the start, and those investing in it perhaps deserve nothing more than just that. After all, it was just naivity and greed, that toxic mix, that lead them to invest in Bitcoin in the first place. A bit like out housing bubble, but at least that take place in the brick-and-mortar world, whereas in the digital world all kinds of scams can be automated with ease by any millenial with basic coding skills. Ah, the revenge of the millenials, perhaps there is some justice after all:-)
……………………………………………………………………
I remember dot.com that’s all I have to say…………………..

#176 IHCTD9 on 11.21.17 at 4:07 pm

#162 Ace Goodheart on 11.21.17 at 1:50 pm

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/09/29/elon-musk-says-new-rocket-will-fly-people-to-the-moon-mars-and-from-city-to-city-on-earth.html

Why can I not read this without breaking up laughing?

_________________________________________

“SpaceX founder Elon Musk unveiled plans to put humans on Mars as early as 2024.”

lol! that is quite the “unveiling”. Just another day in the Musk magical wonderland of total BS.

Some day, all the nimrods feeding this guy money are going to regret it huge.

Musk is a total fraud at this point. He once put a tiny bit of nice product out there, but has been riding the gravy train ever since. He’ll cash in huge before folks get wise, and walk away a billionaire without consequence.

#177 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 4:31 pm

#168 Dmitry

The onus is on you to prove that Bitcoin is a scam. As far as I’m concerned, it’s been up and running with 100% uptime for over 7 years, processing hundreds of thousands of transactions globally per day without fail (show me a bank with 100% uptime – LOL). If bluechip companies are investing into blockchain tech, if central banks are investing in R&D in this, if every single top 50 bank globally is investing in this tech, it’s clearly not a scam, but feel free to put your tinfoil back on. In 5 years or less, you will be using blockchain tech, probably without even knowing it.

#162 PastThePeak

The currency keeps increasing in price because it is a deflationary currency (unlike your dollars, which the US central bank is printing $60 Billion per month to prop up that ponzi… that’s down from $80 billion). Please educate yourself. Watch “money as debt” on youtube. Then you may realize that the real scam is bank issued money and considered currency by government decree (because it’s not backed by jack! Not gold, not silver, not the promise of a politician… not even frequent flyer points). So Bitcoin has a limited supply, yet the demand keeps growing as people realize how revolutionary this technology is. Limited Supply + high demand = increase in value. Simple math.

#173 – JohnnyBoy

You are describing ‘Wash Trading’. All that does is create fake off-chain volume. Does not affect on-chain volumes. Even if it did, who cares, a wash trade has a net zero impact on price. Same person is buying & selling from themselves. Bitcoin mining is currently relatively centralized, I would agree. Proof of Stake fixes that. There’s now over 12+ different consensus protocols. It’s still early days, Bitcoin is not perfect, but these problems will get resolved, don’t under estimate the nerds, especially when billions are at stake. You describe a 51% attack, which is extremely expensive to execute. These so called Chinese miners have invested 100s of millions of dollars into their bitcoin mines. You think they are just going to risk that by colluding and altering some bitcoin transactions? If so, yes Bitcoin price will crash, their 100’s of millions of dollars worth of mining gear will become worthless, so where’s the logic in doing that? Further, one of the other 999 crypto currencies with better decentralization tech would take over the market share and carry on. I never said there was no risk in this stuff.

#178 tulips on 11.21.17 at 4:37 pm

#171 Flower Man on 11.21.17 at 3:40 pm

But talk of bitcoin as individual “currency” and “money” is all bulbshit.
—————————————————-
I’m rolling on the ground in laughter as I type this – thanks Flower Man for making my day :)

#179 acdel on 11.21.17 at 4:40 pm

Here is a very simplified explanation on Blockchain for those who are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k53LUZxUF50&list=PL0TlICfJjH4OGprUaJ4_P-4gj1Dok3zue&index=2

#180 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 4:44 pm

BTW people, I told you about Ethereum in January of 2016 when it was $1.20 per unit. Now it’s $360. You missed out on a 300 fold increase in price. That’s 30,000% !!!! I bought it for about 35 cents per unit and still have roughly half of my original stash. Needless to say, I’m a multi millionaire now because of a small single investment in 1 blockchain.

Proof:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2016/01/15/what-to-do-now/

Post#130

There’s a reason I’m called “GeniusMoney”. ;-)

PS. Blockchain 3.0 tech is around the corner. Price per unit is around $1-3 right now .. but I’m not going to spill the beans on which crypto currencies I’m talking about this time as I haven’t finished buying all the units I want. Do your own research, like I said in above posts, this is still early stages… just look at this forum, maybe 5% of people believe in Bitcoin and Blockchains and have bought some. 95% still havent. We may never reach 100%, but I assure you Wall Street isn’t ignoring this and over 100 new hedge funds are about to invest in 2018. Then come the pension funds & soverign wealth funds after that… then finally the early majority, then the late majority, then the laggards. Do yourself a favour, take $1K or $10K, buy the top 10 Blockchains, and come back in 3 years and tell me you haven’t made ridiculous profits.

#181 acdel on 11.21.17 at 5:01 pm

#178 GeniusMoney

After viewing and learning what this new technology is all about; I can “REALLY” kick myself for not listening to you back then. Congrats to you.

#182 Elon on 11.21.17 at 5:15 pm

#174 IHCTD9
Musk is a total fraud at this point. He once put a tiny bit of nice product out there, but has been riding the gravy train ever since. He’ll cash in huge before folks get wise, and walk away a billionaire without consequence.

While you, IHCTD9, have really applied yourself, and made something of yourself!
Well done!

Oh wait… just a sad unemployed commenter wasting his time w posting drivel at a financial blog. Never mind then.

#183 Dmitry on 11.21.17 at 5:38 pm

#165 GeniusMoney

Come on, all you greater fools, listen to this smart man, bring all your money to this Bitcoin scam, it’s so easy, so lucrative – 26000% in no time, you’ll be reach and will get millions of dollars for free doing absolutely nothing! You heard that right! Free money! Just buy Bitcoin because someone copypasted some BS about this new cool blockchain technology and even though you do not understand a bit of it, it all sounds cools and there’s this 26000% profit in no time.
Do not think, just do it!

#184 Penny Henny on 11.21.17 at 5:40 pm

#178 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 4:44 pm
BTW people, I told you about Ethereum in January of 2016 when it was $1.20 per unit. Now it’s $360. You missed out on a 300 fold increase in price. That’s 30,000% !!!! I bought it for about 35 cents per unit and still have roughly half of my original stash. Needless to say, I’m a multi millionaire now because of a small single investment in 1 blockchain.

Proof:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2016/01/15/what-to-do-now/

///////////////////////

Clap, clap, clap

(golf clap)

#185 espressobob on 11.21.17 at 5:42 pm

The slaughter house awaits the foolhardy.

#186 IHCTD9 on 11.21.17 at 5:46 pm

Elon on 11.21.17 at 5:15 pm
#174 IHCTD9
Musk is a total fraud at this point. He once put a tiny bit of nice product out there, but has been riding the gravy train ever since. He’ll cash in huge before folks get wise, and walk away a billionaire without consequence.

While you, IHCTD9, have really applied yourself, and made something of yourself!
Well done!

Oh wait… just a sad unemployed commenter wasting his time w posting drivel at a financial blog. Never mind then.
——————

Right you are my anonymous Elon Musk fanboi.

I’m sending folks to Jupiter…

NEXT WEEK.

#187 Braj on 11.21.17 at 5:47 pm

#182 Penny Henny on 11.21.17 at 5:40 pm
#178 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 4:44 pm
BTW people, I told you about Ethereum in January of 2016 when it was $1.20 per unit. Now it’s $360. You missed out on a 300 fold increase in price. That’s 30,000% !!!! I bought it for about 35 cents per unit and still have roughly half of my original stash. Needless to say, I’m a multi millionaire now because of a small single investment in 1 blockchain.

Proof:
http://www.greaterfool.ca/2016/01/15/what-to-do-now/

///////////////////////

Clap, clap, clap

(golf clap)

***

Worst part is that I remember reading that comment!

#188 Braj on 11.21.17 at 5:49 pm

PS. Blockchain 3.0 tech is around the corner. Price per unit is around $1-3 right now .. but I’m not going to spill the beans on which crypto currencies I’m talking about this time as I haven’t finished buying all the units I want. Do your own research, like I said in above posts, this is still early stages… just look at this forum, maybe 5% of people believe in Bitcoin and Blockchains and have bought some. 95% still havent. We may never reach 100%, but I assure you Wall Street isn’t ignoring this and over 100 new hedge funds are about to invest in 2018. Then come the pension funds & soverign wealth funds after that… then finally the early majority, then the late majority, then the laggards. Do yourself a favour, take $1K or $10K, buy the top 10 Blockchains, and come back in 3 years and tell me you haven’t made ridiculous profits.

***

Any more hints other than that? Are these ICOs? Tokens? If you point me in the right direction I will eventually find it.

#189 acdel on 11.21.17 at 5:52 pm

Personally I do not have much interest in crypto currencies but this Blockchain technology is just amazing.

Everything that we discuss on this blog; all the corruption, deceits, especially in real-estate,politics etc, can be cleaned up and hopefully will be cleaned up with this new paradigm shift. Any of you that have some sort of programming skills or are familiar with it I found this to be an easy video to understand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baJYhYsHkLM

#190 Blacksheep on 11.21.17 at 5:52 pm

#155 GeniusMoney,

You seem to know your shite, congrats on your gains.

Funny Garth’s post touches on this today.

Just a few days back, I dug into Dr. Ben Goertzel and his actions on Crypto + Block Chain + A.I.

If one had a few bucks to risk on crypto, do you have a recommendation?

#191 Penny Henny on 11.21.17 at 6:07 pm

#178 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 4:44 pm
Do yourself a favour, take $1K or $10K, buy the top 10 Blockchains, and come back in 3 years and tell me you haven’t made ridiculous profits.

//////////////////
Please forgive for I am slow.
How does someone go about doing this?

#192 Josh in Calgary on 11.21.17 at 6:15 pm

Bitcoin and other crypto currencies as a way to keep track of transactions make sense. I watched a few of the youtube videos some people have posted here and they were very interesting.

And absolutely nowhere in those videos do they claim Bitcoin as an asset or a way to make money. They are a currency. A way to facilitate a transaction of agreed upon value. Exactly the same as exchanging regular currency (which also have a tendency to fluctuate from time to time).

It’s this meteoric rise in 2017 that’s classic bubble mentality. People are no longer buying Bitcoin as a way of completing transactions. They’re buying Bitcoin strictly because they think tomorrow it will be worth more … a lot more. They’re buying it because they’re seeing what they “missed out” on and are afraid they’ll continue to miss out. It will all come crashing down in the end. And Bitcoin may well continue as it’s original purpose, or perhaps one of its rivals. Buying in now is a fools game.

#193 Iconoclast on 11.21.17 at 6:22 pm

#158 Danforth:

> Gentle reminder that it’s properly called ‘whisky’.
> ‘Scotch’ is what boors call whisky, some of which happens to come from Scotland.

What nonsense are ye speakin’ lad?

Scotch is what whisky drinkers call whisky from Scotland, just as Bourbon is whiskey from the USA. Most Canadian whisky is known as rye – though there need not be any rye in it. (sigh)

But if Garth says he is drinking a f#$king scotch, gi’ the man credit that he is drinking a f#$king SCOTCH.

… and remember, if it’s not Scottish, IT’S CRAP! ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzG_J7RCGS0

#194 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 6:27 pm

#181 Dmitry

Hehe, I LOL’ed at your post (not at you). Notice I said, go do your own research multiple times. I even provided links to educational videos and documentaries further up in this thread. I also said this sector is EXTREMELY risky. So don’t drop everything and put your entire networth in here, but seriously take 5-10% and take some risk after you watch some educational videos. Go to your local Bitcoin meetups in your respective cities (meetup.com) and drill people there with questions until you are satisfied you understand how this stuff works to an acceptable level to put your mind at ease and understand the risks you are taking. There are now countless youtube videos on this subject. I also said I am mostly not invested in Bitcoin, and so I missed out in great part on the recent 8 fold increase in price. I’ve missed many trades in crypto, I’ll be the first one to admit it. If I had gotten them all right, I would be a multi-billionaire by now.

PS. re: other posts. Thanks for the congrats, but I’m not done yet. Still plenty of upside long-term, although the corrections can be very deep and nasty. Give yourselves 3-4 year time horizon in this sector after your initial investments and try to read frequently in where you invested and if you invested any significant amount of money for gods sake buy yourselves a “hardware wallet” like Ledger to safely keep your crypto tokens from getting stolen/hacked etc. Good luck.

PPS. Yes, Real Estate is very ripe for disruption by blockchains in many different ways. There’s way too many middle men in Real Estate providing questionable value for their services… from realtors to notaries, to lawyers, to government systems tracking who owns what land titles, to highly questionable blind auctions/bidding wars, to property tax authorities. The possibilities for increasing efficiencies and liquidity in real estate transactions is huge. What if you could take a $20 Million dollar commercial property, tokenize the title into 100,000 units and sell them globally in a blockchain? To say nothing of disrupting AirB&B, hotel industries, tourist booking sites who take cuts, etc. As I mentioned before, any industry who has middle men providing trust-related services and taking a significant cut, are going to get rekt with blockchains, but don’t worry, this will still take years to materialize.

#195 acdel on 11.21.17 at 6:31 pm

#190 Josh in Calgary

What do you think of these ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3psxs3gyf8&list=PL0TlICfJjH4OGprUaJ4_P-4gj1Dok3zue&index=3

#196 AGuyInVancouver on 11.21.17 at 8:47 pm

#192 GeniusMoney on 11.21.17 at 6:27 pm
Bitcoin meet-ups? Thanks, you just convinced me it’s yet another get rich quick scheme that will end in tears.

#197 morrey on 11.21.17 at 11:14 pm

Todays Bitcoin mania is the Tulip Bulb mania of the past.

#198 morrey on 11.21.17 at 11:16 pm

There is only one Whiskey. its from Scotland. suck it up lads

#199 MBG on 11.22.17 at 9:23 am

Crypto has a big future ahead of it – the currency is and is likely to be more reliable than currencies issued by scores of nations (e.g. in Africa, Asia and South America). These early years are volatile and not for the faint of heart – but Crypto is not going away in the long-term, and will eventually become much more stable.

#200 Doug in London on 11.22.17 at 2:21 pm

I said it before and I’ll say it again, if you’re looking for a place to put your money forget GROSSLY overpriced Bitcoin. Instead buy something that’s on sale now like stock in Enbridge, GE, AT&T or high yield bond ETFs.