The choice

Yesterday we mocked Mills here on this righteous blog. Today we commiserate. We feel your pain, moisters. You get all schooled up and brimming with expectations, then what happens? Yep. Reality. It blows.

Never before have so many people between 20 and 35 lived with their parents at home. Estimates vary, but in Canada the consensus is between 30% and 42%. The impact on parental finances is huge, but so must be the psychological toll of being an adult and yet a child. When measured against their parents, who generally fled the nest in their early 20s, this is a generation in which financial and personal maturity is being pushed back as never before.

Why?

A Credit Suisse report says Millennials face a perfect storm preventing them from independence. That includes crappy entry-level jobs with substandard wages, inflated real estate costs, careers without pensions and few benefits, withering, decaying Boomers who hold the good positions and refuse to retire, soaring rents (because of soaring housing) and an insane conservativism born of suspicion, mistrust and cynicism (and too much education). Wow. End of days stuff. If you think the next two decades of your life will be ashes, why leave Mom’s basement?

“With the baby boomers occupying most of the top jobs and much of the housing, millennials are doing less well than their parents at the same age, especially in relation to income, home ownership and other dimensions of wellbeing,” says the bank. A big issue is that people in the twenties and thirties are entering family-formation years and a giant, prolonged rutting season in which nesting, birthing and parenting are preoccupations. But because we’re now in a gig economy with stupid house prices, rising rates, tougher borrowing rules and endless volatility, it all ends in stress.

Of course the Mills are not alone when it comes to be fritzed. Another survey (they’re endless) says 70% of people stress over money to the extent four in ten can’t sleep. Half of all marriages now end, with finances cited as the reason.

At the root of much of this is, of course, real estate. Canadians obsess about it, spend huge sums they don’t have to get it, then face decades of payments for mortgages, property tax, insurance, maintenance and utilities. If they end up making a capital gain, great. But then most just trade up to a bigger house, subsume all their profit within equity, and double down on a new mortgage. Meanwhile the poor moisters are stuck on the sidelines after an historic housing romp, unable to buy much other than a kennel-sized concrete box for $800 a foot.

So here’s the worse news, to accompany the bad news above. The housing market is destined to be negatively impacted by higher interest rates and tighter lending rules plus overbuilding. The areas whacked the most will be exactly where the Mills migrate – urban 416 and YVR. The kind of real estate most devastated will be just what the kids are now flocking to (because it’s what they can afford) – condos. It’s entirely anyone buying such a place now with a 20% down payment will lose all equity within the next two years. Your mortgage will equal the entire worth of the property, or more. The loss will be devastating if you deployed all your savings.

Meanwhile rents are high and vacancy rates low in Toronto, and especially Vancouver. Both leasing and owning are massively more expensive than they were for your parents and, of course, all the big money’s already been made in real estate. If you do buy a house from a Boomer, you’ll be funding his retirement and participating in the grandest transfer of wealth ever from one generation to the previous one.

So, be smart about it.

Don’t buy. It’s a wealth trap. An ‘affordable’ urban condo means forever-high monthly fees, no outside space, a limited universe of potential buyers, shoddy finishing and weird people living above and below you. You cannot control the building, the living environment nor shield yourself from special assessments when the parking garage needs a repair or the windows fog and must be replaced. The value of your unit is tied to that of every similar one, and with each new high-rise built, existing condo buildings become a little less desirable. When you can live in the same space as a renter for half the cost and none of the risk, why wouldn’t you?

Better still, leave town. Seriously.

Take that $400,000 and see what it buys in Halifax, Quebec City, London, Lloydminster or even Montreal and Ottawa. Sure, finding work may be a little more challenging, but apparently people have actual jobs in those cities. They don’t spent 110% of their incomes on accommodation, which means they can stuff their TFSAs, or even afford to have children. They get houses with yards, driveways, backyards and minivans. They pay off their debts.

The premium for living now in 416 or 604 is extreme, unrelenting, draining and destructive. It’s about to get worse. If you try, you may never recover. Get out and get a life. Or, stay with Mom. If that’s a tough choice, you’re already pooched.

 

186 comments ↓

#1 Jose on 11.17.17 at 6:30 pm

Great and depressing post. First.

#2 jess on 11.17.17 at 6:32 pm

“We looked at a number of avenues … to change” the reliance on temporary workers, Kevin Flynn said at Queen’s Park on Monday, following revelations in a Star investigation showing how temporary agencies have proliferated across the province, giving workers no job security and little training. Statistics show temp workers are also more likely to be injured in the workplace.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/09/11/temp-work-growth-is-alarming-and-changes-are-coming-says-ontario-labour-minister.html

just google recruiting agency scandals and see how ridiculous this has become

#3 Doug t on 11.17.17 at 6:34 pm

The world is in the largest financial bubble in history – when it pops it will make the depression of ’29 seem mild in comparison

RATM

#4 John Dough on 11.17.17 at 6:34 pm

My previous cryptogram, which was posted to Garth’s blog on Tax Evaders (#216) remains unsolved. The most popular, but incorrect answer was “Truman Capote”. Please remember to read all of the clues and combine all of the answers in your response. Here is another cryptogram for you to solve.

Think it over (*this is one of the clues)
Waterway between Geneva and Arles
2.718

#5 Royal City Dweller on 11.17.17 at 6:34 pm

Oh, Garth…
Today you sound as if Screwed Canadian Millennial was right, after all.
Depressing.

#6 MSM-Free Zone on 11.17.17 at 6:35 pm

“….Better still, leave town. Seriously…..”
____________________________

Excellent advice.

Fewer expenses. More free time with the better half. More time to fertilize fire hydrants. Can’t come soon enough.

#7 Rick Fast on 11.17.17 at 6:36 pm

Predictions of how much the drop in GTA will be over the next few years?

#8 Mark on 11.17.17 at 6:38 pm

So how does this cycle get broken? The boomers are overloaded with RE exposure, so as the RE market crashes (even more than it has already in the post-2013 peak era), many of them will have to work even longer than they currently anticipated.

Do rank and file boomers possibly have enough exposure to the stock market to take advantage of a strong countercyclical rally? ie: a 1990s-like tripling of the TSX? Maybe a select few who work for big business, and took advantage of ESOP or otherwise have equity-invested pension plans. But that only covers a relatively small chunk of soon-to-hopefully retire boomers.

So really, I don’t know how it will turn out, but it does look like a very messy future with enormous amounts of volatility in financial asset returns. And of course widening risk premia against debt of all kinds, particularly with respect to RE.

The other thing that is a really big problem is that a lot of the Millennials’ skills are going to waste. In some fields of engineering, for instance, there hasn’t been meaningful hiring of graduates for the better part of a decade or even longer. The cost to the economy in such instance is enormous, as not only is the intellectual prowess of these engineering grads lost, but when the boomers in those fields do finally absolutely need to retire, the process of knowledge transfer is likely to be quite abrupt. Instead of a smooth transition, there will be a lot of ‘re-inventing the wheel’. With Canada lagging so far behind on things related to IT, cybersecurity, and productivity, Canadian investors should be on the phone to executives at Canada’s major corporations screaming at them for their lack of willingness to fully employ the high end talent pool available to them to solve these very pertinent business problems.

#9 the Jaguar on 11.17.17 at 6:40 pm

Isn’t part of those stats related to the reluctance of moisters to leave the ‘amenities’ of the family home, such as full internet, full fridge, smothering mom’s who do laundry, pay cell phone bills, family cars that can be borrowed, etc.? Back in the day there was something called ‘getting a roommate’ to share expenses with in order to get out on your own and have something called independence. Learn what it’s like to have the responsibilities of paying the rent and other bills. Work hard, save, make your way in the world and expect to make some sacrifices. It really helped build character.
Why does it have to be a moister living at home or getting the big financial down payment from bank of mom to buy granite with no lessons or experience in between?

#10 Bob on 11.17.17 at 6:43 pm

Well researched article on the supply Myth
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/academic-takes-on-vancouvers-housing-supply-myth/article37015584/

#11 finally on 11.17.17 at 6:43 pm

Finally someone says it like it is:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/academic-takes-on-vancouvers-housing-supply-myth/article37015584/

#12 the Jaguar on 11.17.17 at 6:43 pm

Love those puppies. A beautiful Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever rode the train this morning with the other commuters. Superiority to all other riders on full display.

#13 PLL on 11.17.17 at 6:46 pm

I live in Quebec city with an average job (50k per year).
Still don’t have the means to buy a house and I’m one of those mills at 26 that just left the parents nest.

I don’t know how I will be able to afford a house (between 250k and 300k) with my salary only… better be renting out the rest of my life…

#14 Dave on 11.17.17 at 6:46 pm

So are you saying that we will have a correction, but advising people to move elsewhere because the big cities are too expensive. Which is is it? The correction won’t be of the magnitude to make these cities affordable? Or, when things tank there will be buying opportunities?

#15 DON on 11.17.17 at 6:47 pm

#1 Jose on 11.17.17 at 6:30 pm

Great and depressing post. First.
***************

Not as depressing as being heavily indebted and watching your equity disappear in a falling market.

or going through a divorce – another couple I know of with young children are divorcing, unfortunate but reality. I don’t really think either of them can make it on their own. Expensive city.

#16 Zapstrap on 11.17.17 at 6:49 pm

Yeah … they are hooped.
——————————————————————-
The best way to rob a bank is to own one…

#17 nick on 11.17.17 at 6:51 pm

The other interesting thing ive noticed is the GTA is generally filled with pissy people. Nobody is really happy with their lives. Crazy commutes, expensive COL, low wages, rush the to GO/TTC… its definitely a rat race here.

Whereas in my travels to many places across Canada and the US, this is not really the case. People are generally happier and have more time to enjoy their lives outside of working and commuting.

#18 Bezengy on 11.17.17 at 6:51 pm

Why would anyone move out of Toronto? It’s the most important city in Canada after all, just ask anyone who lives there. Meanwhile in this small mining town I’m busy doing my volunteer work. I’m sure I’m missing out on something in the big smoke, but I’ll soldier on. Man it’s quite tonight, so peaceful. Wish you were here.

#19 active on 11.17.17 at 6:52 pm

I’m a 32 moister, left the parents pad when I was 17 and never looked back. When I see people my age still living with mommy and daddy I laugh and think what losers they must be. can’t get ahead otherwise? bullsh*t! I did, all it takes is hard work and discipline.

#20 LivinLarge on 11.17.17 at 6:53 pm

“If you do buy a house from a Boomer, you’ll be funding his retirement and participating in the grandest transfer of wealth ever from one generation to the previous one.”…..and strangely, it wasn’t that long ago that I recall reading that the boomer generation’s endowment of following generations was going to represent the greatest transfer of wealth of all time. Nothing changes so much as it stays the same.

#21 Fran Deck Jr. on 11.17.17 at 6:53 pm

Toronto is a miasma of decrepitude. The roads are a mess, transit is slow and unreliable, there is construction absolutely everywhere, all you can hear are jack-hammers and sirens, all you can smell is urine and cigarettes. The people are miserable and crazy. Everyone is poor and the politicians are all communists. The Toronto media sucks and crime is bad … very bad. The Toronto police can’t even respond to reports of shots fired on some nights … no officers available. Civic Action Toronto held a press conference last year stating that more than 50% of GTA employees were mentally ill … the number is higher … there is an epidemic of government workers on stress leave in Toronto … commuting will take the average worker hours every day in conditions which we only used to see in the third world … why anyone would buy a house in Toronto and want to live in that city is incomprehensible. Toronto sucks.

#22 Linda on 11.17.17 at 6:56 pm

While depressing, still an excellent post. One point though – first, the ‘never before’ should be edited to say ‘in recent history’. Because it used to be normal for people to live together in the same house with multiple generations, one atop the other in Western society. When I was a child, our household comprised of grandparents, parents & one younger uncle in addition to myself & siblings. This was neither weird or unusual. While my parents worked, my grandparents kept the house/yard in top shape, cooked the meals & ensured the children were fed, washed & sent to school. My uncle was a high school student – my older uncles had left the nest because they had married – but I’m fairly sure they & their new spouse were sharing space with the bride’s parents for a while until they had saved enough to buy a home of their own. My point was that lots of people lived at home even after they were married. Call it the nesting version of being helped by Mom/Dad to establish themselves.

#23 bring_it_on on 11.17.17 at 6:56 pm

I never thought I’d see the day when Garth would have a post describing in an accurate way what it is like for the younger generation trying now to secure a financially viable future in our two biggest cities; In my view, this post is spot on, and although I am on the border of gen-ex and late boomer have seen through our friends with young adults how difficult it is for them with skyhigh rents, low paying “professional jobs (in YVR). Although we may disagree on how we came to this mess (foreign influence on YVR, cheap credit, etc..), this post at least acknowledges the extra life challenges faced by this group in comparison to earlier generations. Well done. I agree too with the resolution; If I was in this pickle, I’d be moving to Halifax, which in my view is as “world-class” a city as one needs (bike lanes, decent jobs, affordable housing,good communities, etc..), and what vancouver was in the late 80’s and 90’s. One does not need to live in a city that the developers call “world class”: (rents like NYC and Hong KOng, people packed in high towers everywhere, greater competition for jobs, unbearable traffic, low vacancy, etc…etc..). This latter definition is YVR now.

#24 Dan.t on 11.17.17 at 6:58 pm

Depressing but true.

#25 In the cold on 11.17.17 at 6:59 pm

My son is a first year student at U of T. I told him to go back to Europe for his masters,and plan to live there after graduation. I don’t see an easy future for him here. As a matter of fact, I don’t see an easy future for myself either… but that’s a different story.

#26 TurnerNation on 11.17.17 at 7:01 pm

How to talk to a Millennial (if you must).

1. Never pay them a compliment. Seriously. They are stuck in a bio-feedback loop with their Iphones and your comment will met with accusations or Mainsplaining, Age or skin colour privilege; or your use of incorrect pronoun will give rise to a (re-)tort.

Like Mills I came out with a worthless Uni degree but into still a pre-GFC job market and am doing very well.

They have same worthless paper with no prospects.

I guess I need them to work in coffee shops I frequent – yes I tip in cash (declare at will – or not) ;-)

Each generation hates their parent’s wars. This war uses silent monetary weapons. A Boomer’s bloated house will become fodder of estate lawyers if nothing else in the end.

M41ON

#27 wow...is there no on 11.17.17 at 7:03 pm

on this blog anymore?

Confucius say;

‘if you’re the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room’

#28 Canada's new industry on 11.17.17 at 7:04 pm

and to be world leaders in said industry

weed

we got this

#29 Travis Bickle on 11.17.17 at 7:04 pm

GT,

This may be your most depressing post ever…
I hope you are at least a little bit wrong, for the sake of young generation…

#30 rainclouds on 11.17.17 at 7:10 pm

True Dat

Renting a 2008 Condo near Yaletown since 2012.
9. Yr. old. building…………….

-Parking Garage needed “reskinning” which ment (find another place to park for a week till the work is done.)
– Elevators have crapped out several times.(in one case both for an entire weekend) The poor schmucks on 21 had to schlep their groceries up the old fashioned way…
-Domestic Hot Water supply had to be fixed as many floors didn’t have any for several days
-Car Break Ins in the parkade.
– Hookers and Pimps had to be kicked out with police breaking down doors
-Homeless camping out in P1
-Airbnb ongoing through out the building
-Shoddy workmanship from the plumbing, to the flooring, to kitchen cupboards
-2 new buildings going up on this block

While We are enjoying the downtown lifestyle I would never buy one of these “suites” for the price they are asking and this building is only 9 yrs old…..

Just keep growing the 60/40 balanced portfolio by 7% per annum (which is 4x what we pay in rent). And wait till capitulation sets in…..or move to the maritimes and spend winters somewhere warm.

Nope, dont need Vancouver or its idiotic RE situation. Many options…………..

#31 Mike on 11.17.17 at 7:15 pm

.
As someone said yesterday, as long as folks have cash flow to make payments, come B-20 or whatever nothing going to softland or crash Canadian housing…

They just won’t sell for 150k lesser.

#32 mark on 11.17.17 at 7:18 pm

One for the blog pictures

https://globalnews.ca/news/3867483/surrey-trailer-dolly-wheels/

#33 Easychoice on 11.17.17 at 7:23 pm

Exactly right. It doesnt make sense to make half and pay at least double just to put a roof over your head. Get out and do great things with other young educated people around the world. You have nothing to lose but a life of slavery to a bank. The cards are stacked against you but you dont have to play.

#34 millmech on 11.17.17 at 7:24 pm

#19 Active
Now you have just triggered all the moisters here and they will now be escorted to their safe zones for the weekend. Seriously good for you though, my two boys are out on their own mid twenties making more than the old man, so much work for their skill set(over 2000 jobs for their trades on Indeed alone). I don’t understand how anyone could stand to be at home after twenty, I left at sixteen never went back way too much pride and stubbornness.

#35 jess on 11.17.17 at 7:30 pm

interesting
Narco-a-lago: Money Laundering at the Trump Ocean Club Panama

Trump may not have deliberately set out to facilitate criminal activity in his business dealings. But, as this Global Witness investigation shows, licensing his brand to the luxurious Trump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower in Panama aligned Trump’s financial interests with those of crooks looking to launder ill-gotten gains. Trump seems to have done little to nothing to prevent this. What is clear is that proceeds from Colombian cartels’ narcotics trafficking were laundered through the Trump Ocean Club and that Donald Trump was one of the beneficiaries.

One key player in the laundering of drug money at the Trump Ocean Club was notorious fraudster David Eduardo Helmut Murcia Guzmán, whom a U.S. court subsequently sentenced to nine years for laundering millions of dollars’ worth of illicit funds, including narcotics proceeds, through companies and real estate.

Another was Murcia Guzmán’s business associate, Alexandre Henrique Ventura Nogueira, who brokered nearly a third of the 666 pre-construction unit sales at the Trump Ocean Club and claims to have sold 350-400 units overall. Ventura Nogueira’s sales brokerage was critical to ensuring the project’s lift-off and Trump’s ability to earn tens of millions of dollars….”

The warning signs were there from the outset. The Trump Ocean Club, one of Trump’s most lucrative licensing deals to date, was announced in 2006 and launched in 2011, a period when Panama was known as one of the best places in the world to launder money. Whole neighborhoods in Panama City were taken over by organized crime groups, and luxury developments were built with the purpose of serving as money laundering vehicles.

Moreover, investing in luxury properties is a tried and trusted way for criminals to move tainted cash into the legitimate financial system, where they can spend it freely. Once scrubbed clean in this way, vast profits from criminal activities like trafficking people and drugs, organized crime, and terrorism can find their way into the U.S. and elsewhere. In most countries, regulation is notoriously lax in the real estate sector. Cash payments are subject to hardly any scrutiny, giving opportunistic and unprincipled developers free rein to accept dirty money.

In the case of the Trump Ocean Club, accepting easy – and possibly dirty – money early on would have been in Trump’s interest; a certain volume of pre-construction sales was necessary to secure financing for the project, which stood to net him $75.4 million by the end of 2010. Trump received a percentage of the financing he helped secure, and a cut on the sale of every unit at the development.

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/corruption-and-money-laundering/narco-a-lago-panama/#chapter-0/section-1

#36 Bitcoinnaire on 11.17.17 at 7:31 pm

>The premium for living now in 416 or 604 is extreme, unrelenting, draining and destructive. It’s about to get worse. If you try, you may never recover. Get out and get a life. Or, stay with Mom. If that’s a tough choice, you’re already pooched.

Not to mention Toronto or Vancouver offer nothing in terms of cultural or social attractions beyond provincial towns. You can find a Sobey’s and watering holes in all of these places.

#37 AB Boxster on 11.17.17 at 7:33 pm

There are a number of small communities outside cities like Edmonton and Calgary, where you can buy a real house for 250 – 350K.

Alberta, if you are employed still has the highest average income in the country, and compared to places like YVR and greater TO, home prices are far more resonable.

Outrageous compared to what they should really cost.

But far more reasonable than elsewhere.

1/2 hour commute to city.
Nice quiet smaller town lifestyle wwith big city amenities.

And you get to live in the best province in the country, as well.

Why anyone would want to live in the most expensive housing markets in he country is baffling.

#38 Willy H on 11.17.17 at 7:37 pm

Better still, leave town. Seriously.

Take that $400,000 and see what it buys in Halifax, Quebec City, London, Lloydminster or even Montreal and Ottawa.

___ ___ ___ ___

Yes – been giving the same advice on this blog for years!

My children now in high school and uni have been instructed to get the heck out of the GTA and better yet the entire Golden Horseshoe after graduating.

Lots of places to live in Canada, USA and Europe etc… that are more affordable with much more to offer in terms of quality of life, art, culture, architecture and history.

Whatever incremental increase you manage in terms of salary in this soulless urban mega-sprawl will be eaten by housing costs and deteriorating quality of life. You can plan to spend 5-10% of your waking adult life jammed on 400 series highways strewn with empty Tim’s cups!

Yes, the GTA is a paradise if your a new arrival coming from the Third World, over-crowded East and South Asia, but the quality of life as perceived by Canadian born pre-GenY generations (and pre-1970 immigrants) has deterioriated markedly by any standard.

#39 Jungle on 11.17.17 at 7:38 pm

Most depressing yet true post of the year, lol

#40 J. Canuck on 11.17.17 at 7:39 pm

Garth neglected to mention the great province of New Brunswick. Yes, it’s an LDP (less developed province) but it has many things going for it.

The cities haven’t been overdeveloped to death. The province hasn’t been crammed to the gunnels with people (which is happening even in sleepy Victoria where I live) looking to enjoy “the lifestyle” while being jostled by their fellow humans.

Summer is delightful while winter is like the rest of Canada. By developed country standards, the place is unspoiled.

Houses and land are amazingly reasonable although taxes and living expenses are somewhat higher.

Jobs are a bit of an issue just as anywhere, but Moncton says it’s a growing city and Saint John isn’t doing so badly either.

Irving (the company that actually owns and operates NB) has billboards urging people to stay in the province and get a job with them.

So all the people out there who like to think they’re “disruptive” and “cutting edge” should do something really original and ignore the herd. It’s not sexy, but it might be the best thing you could do with your life.

#41 rknusa on 11.17.17 at 7:42 pm

“The role of the supply argument is, to a large extent, to distract the public and policy makers from action on the demand side, specifically in terms of foreign capital.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/academic-takes-on-vancouvers-housing-supply-myth/article37015584/

the government is only punishing its citizens for the most part with these mortgage rules opening up the market for rich foreigners

shame

#42 Smoking Man on 11.17.17 at 7:42 pm

If you do your job as a dad good. You bread entrupenurs and masculine men who respect a good woman. That way you can cash in at peek real Estate and move in with your kid till you land that dream gig in southern California.
My book will hit the big screens in two years. I’ll win the Oscar for best writer but won’t show up to claim the price

Hollywood is to perverted for me.

Leaving kunackstan a week tomorrow. I’m going to help Make America Great Again.

I’ll be back in 2019 to help T2 become a drama teacher again.

#43 Debtslavecreator on 11.17.17 at 7:44 pm

Thank you Garth
In your opinion what is your top 2 areas to buy in within 1 hour of the west end of Toronto ?
I agree renting is so much smarter

FYI I know on Bank will start B20 on Dec 10
Also the majority of retail staff at a bank I know of are in complete panic as extreme sales targets are being kept the same for credit exposed positions despite b20
Banks are reducing and making it very hard to make a bonus and to keep a job
They are setting up the staff to resign and or be fired within 6-12 months
Work conditions including at CUs are getting so bad
Fear , anxiety and being treated with contempt is the norm for most even those with a long record of good performance
I have never seen it so bad
This creates a dangerous work environment in retail banks as many of their staff are in massive debt
Thankfully I’m not

#44 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 11.17.17 at 7:45 pm

#10 Bob on 11.17.17 at 6:43 pm
Well researched article on the supply Myth
______________________________________________

Yes, the growth of housing units in Vancouver has exceeded the growth in population. However, that doesn’t take into account the growth in demand for speculative investment units to be left empty. With that included, the growth in demand has exceeded the growth in supply.

#45 Ron on 11.17.17 at 7:47 pm

Last year I packed up and drove 5 hours east on the 401.

Montreal is an incredible city and probably the best value for the money in North America. Yes, construction and taxes suck, there’s no pro baseball or NBA, and everything looks like it’s from the 1980’s. So what. It’s almost impossible to find a bad meal and people are friendly and HAPPY (even on the subway!) My salary is only slightly less than my previous job in Toronto and I even work in English. I paid 250k for a condo in hipster paradise; subway, coffee shops, bars, cheese stores, gelato shops, restaurants, parks and a year round farmers market within 5 minutes walk. The best part? No one here talks about real estate.

#46 rknusa on 11.17.17 at 7:48 pm

re: Take that $400,000 and see what it buys in Halifax, Quebec City, London, Lloydminster or even Montreal and Ottawa.

the price of houisng is too high in those cities too

most of the country has drank the housing kool aid an will pay dearly whan interest rates rise, with the new tax plan in the US interest rates will have to rise to sell the debt to foreigners

y’all are screwed

#47 Ronaldo on 11.17.17 at 7:50 pm

Great post Garth. Hopefully a few will heed your advice and escape to where it’s affordable. Many places in Canada where you can afford to buy an live a great life. Just have to be smart enough to do it. Problem is, life in the basement can get very comfy with everything paid for by Mommie and Daddy. No incentive to leave.

#48 Lost...but not leased on 11.17.17 at 7:51 pm

#30 rainclouds

Advice to Millenials etc buying pre-sales etc.

In Hot Re markets its a given the quality suffers. Good tradesmen become few and far between….much of the work is done by poorly paid apprentices(if lucky) overseen by a journeymen.

If you think the various inspectors req’d are on top of everything…guess again..it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be on top. At this juncture, we are talking about workmanship…quality of materials is a whole OTHER discussion.

One is much better off buying an existing unit that as a condition of sale can have a proper inspection by a professional.

IMHO, the time is becoming ripe for parties to choose this route as sales begin to languish and competition by “greater fools” are becoming less of a factor.

#49 Nonplused on 11.17.17 at 7:52 pm

I flew the coup when I was 19, mostly because living conditions at home were unbearable and always had been. I still had 3 years of school to go but I found cheap rent in a relative’s basement. Had my own car (cheap piece of junk but it didn’t use much gas) and summer jobs and student loans.

The student loans were a problem, but I made a deal with my father in law that helped us both out but probably me more than him. He was (is) an extremely generous guy. Although he isn’t my father in law anymore. Still like him though and we chat when we do meet.

So when I look at things, yes I certainly worry about my daughters and what sort of future they will have. But realistically, when I was that age life pretty much sucked. I just didn’t know anything different at the time. Running around in a 1979 Fiesta didn’t bother me at the time. Neither did eating Kraft dinner 5 nights a week. Maybe kidney beans and bacon for a treat. I used Pert shampoo (still do, not enough hair to worry about). I didn’t know anything else. I didn’t have a computer or a smart phone so I played a pawn-shop guitar to entertain myself, which was a bit awkward because although I did ok on the guitar I can’t sing. Not at all.

#50 bigtowne on 11.17.17 at 7:52 pm

The social service agencies for the immigrants herd the incomers into the core of toronto and Vancouver. Of course these people come from a disparity of countries where the rent was like $50 a month in warm sunny tropical climates.

Worlds must collide in the big smoke where these rental seekers from outside the great white have to look for housing. Why would all those well-meaning immigrant support agencies pack their clientele in the most expensive crowded cities in Canada? Is it possible there is some extra financial aid from the various levels of government encouraging this diversity of renters?

#51 Chico on 11.17.17 at 7:53 pm

Take that $400,000 and see what it buys in Halifax, Quebec City, London, Lloydminster or even Montreal and Ottawa. Sure, finding work may be a little more challenging, but apparently people have actual jobs in those cities.

——–

A couple points:

“Sure, finding work may be a little more challenging”

No matter where people move in our country, a large number of them are going to find it “challenging” due to the high cost of living. The idea of going where there is “more jobs” without calculating the other costs of living is plain stupid.

It reminds me of the logic used with single people. Comments are made like “guys like that” or “women really like that in a guy.” Those sort of statements are stupid because unless we’re doing the polygamy thing, we are only marrying one other person. Going to a place where there are lots of jobs isn’t much different than going to a place where there are “lots of men.” Where there are lots of jobs, there may be lots more competition, so how’s that a benefit?

Citing Halifax, Quebec City, London, Lloydminster or even Montreal and Ottawa, is interesting but in vain. Most Canadians I know have very little knowledge or interest in learning about other parts of their country. Most people I’ve met from coast to coast think of their part of the country as “the country.”

When we were months from leaving Langley BC, a friend heard me chatting with WestJet regarding a flight change. I told him it was for my flight to Halifax, and he asked, “where’s that?” He was 55!

Instead of considering other parts of the country as viable options, people generally choose to blindly criticize places they don’t know much about in an attempt to endorse where they’re living, be it their parent’s basement, or in some other place their not happy in or struggling to survive in.

If you asked 100 people outside of Ontario to tell you a little about London ON, I’d be shocked if more than a handful could muster up anything meaningful.

Where did Gretzky play his junior hockey? The Soo. 75,000 people. Real people live there.

The best though…everything east of Quebec is Newfoundland! That is a common refrain I have heard from many maritimers about how we are perceived.

The country is huge, people are lazy, if my Mom kicks me out maybe I’ll try something else, I couldn’t possible leave all my screwed up in laws behind, there are no other jobs like the one I’ve got now, I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else.

#52 Johnny D on 11.17.17 at 7:54 pm

Whenever i travel to Vancouver or Toronto, I’m reminded of how great it is to be a prairie “hick.” Even though the universities here are poisoned with snowflake SJW PC culture like everywhere else, everyday normal people are grounded.

I think it’s that which keeps most facets of society here somewhat in check. The ignorance, narcissism, and downright selfishness that most induviduals possess in Canada’s two largest “progressive” cities is large reason why any semblance of culture is falling apart in these places.

#53 Bob Dog on 11.17.17 at 7:55 pm

This post sounds like a prosecution lawyer in court laying out in great detail the crimes the Government of Canada has committed against young Canadians. What will the verdict be and what will the punishment be?

#54 Nicolas on 11.17.17 at 7:58 pm

In Montreal you can rent a 3 br in the best part of town for 1500-2000$. We pay 1280$ for a 2 br. Super quiet, I walk to downtown/McGill every day, haven’t owned a car in years.

#55 t woods on 11.17.17 at 7:59 pm

thats it…my kids got it…one in Dawson City, Yukon, the other looking at property in eastern Ontario…my beloved X and I we bought in Georgetown many years ago…we’re re laughing our way to the bank…the kids are alright…

#56 Nonplused on 11.17.17 at 8:00 pm

So, another quick (hopefully) comment on how life wasn’t all that great for us Gen-X’s when we were leaving high school. Remember our bands? Twisted Sister maybe? AC/DC? Violent Fems? U2? Go through the list. They didn’t look rich or high society even if they were pulling down the doe big time. Contrast that with a stage performance by Brittney or Pink. The new stars flaunt being rich. The old stars acted and looked like they couldn’t afford a hair cut. This is how times have changed. I blame Micheal and Madonna. Suddenly it became cool to be rich and uncool not to be.

#57 Pete on 11.17.17 at 8:01 pm

I don’t know why the attraction to GTA and Vancouver. Overcrowded and poorly planned, and hell to get around! I grew up in Toronto and glad to have left last year!

#58 Lee on 11.17.17 at 8:03 pm

Most Torontonians wouldn’t survive in a small boring Town like London, Ontario. So they’re stuck in Toronto forever, high rent and all. Enjoy!

#59 Dolce Vita on 11.17.17 at 8:06 pm

#31 Mike

Cash flow to make payments just lets you keep your home.

B20 is about buying a home.

Like the Realtor yesterday pointed out, $707K is what someone can “afford” now or $560K after B20.

That $147K has to be made up in the downpayment. That takes awhile for most people to save. Means fewer buyers for years to come. The rest is supply and demand. Prices fall. Someone always has to sell.

Besides, a job sucking recession, which we are due for by now, will make ’em sell and drop their drawers for a lot more than $150K – when no cash flow kicks in.

#60 Blutterfy on 11.17.17 at 8:07 pm

I am moister. We are still living at home. I hate it. Mom hates it. No one chooses to share kitchen space unless the situation is dire. Also being told when dishes need to be done is rather humiliating when you’re 30. We are paying off our student loans and are the only ones out of our siblings and peers who are not drowning in mortgage debt. We only work 3 jobs between us which is quite cushy compared to our siblings and peers. They make fun of us for not having a house. We are not successful and we’re teaching our new child that mooching is okay. We pay $700 a month to the parents for the privilege of sharing their kitchen with them. This was an amenable decision for everyone (for us because our other family “discount” rent for a one bedroom basement darkness with no yard or outside space was $1200/month.). The parents are entering their 60s with only 5 digits in their retirement funds. In an aging house that needs renovations. They’re not alone. Their friends who’s kids have moved out are still working and will be forever. It sucks. At least I have opportunity to change the course of my financial future now. (And thankfully no mortgage to my name – thanks Garth )

#61 Willy H on 11.17.17 at 8:07 pm

#22 Linda on 11.17.17 at 6:56 pm

While depressing, still an excellent post. One point though – first, the ‘never before’ should be edited to say ‘in recent history’. Because it used to be normal for people to live together in the same house with multiple generations, one atop the other in Western society.

___ ___ ___ ___

Excellent observation. This notion of leaving home at 20 to find your way in the world is a 20th Century anomaly, just like the once prosperous and thriving post-WWII middle class.

Generations lived together under the same roof their entire lives and the older generation instilled hard work, common sense, thrift and social responsibility on the younger. There was an even bigger bonus with this set-up > people actually cared both physically and emotionally for other family members each and every day! Yup, they didn’t just Facebook post each other!

Western society has strayed from this norm in the extreme.

Leaving home at 20 (or 25 for that matter) is no indicator of maturity, personal or financial success today. Quite the opposite, with interest-free money raining down from all directions, our bloated welfare state, helicopter parents, bank of mom & dad, bank of Granda & Granna, and a built-in sense of entitlement*.

*caused by absolutely shitty parenting!

For most of human history generations have lived under the same roof. We have developed perverse expectations in this area for our youth.

I guess that’s why most of us will end up in sterile nursing homes waiting to give up our last breath!

So much for progress.

#62 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 11.17.17 at 8:13 pm

Canada’s most and least expensive rental markets for one-bedroom apartments (2016):

The top 10 most expensive list is as follows:
Yellowknife $1,401
Wood Buffalo, Alta. $1,251
Oakville, Ont. $1,214
Vancouver $1,159
Richmond Hill, Ont. $1,134
Toronto $1,132
Mississauga, Ont. $1,109
Richmond, B.C. $1,083
Burnaby, B.C. $1,019
Oak Bay, B.C. $866

The top 10 least expensive cities to rent in are as follows:
Shawinigan, Que. $381
Alma, Que. $407
St. Georges, Que. $415
Victoriaville, Que. $418
Montmagny, Que. $457
Bathurst, N.B. $459
Matane, Que. $465
Edmundston, N.B. $468
Trois-Riveres, Que. $469
Saguenay, Que. $469

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/from-381-to-1-401-canada-s-most-and-least-expensive-rental-markets-1.3346449

#63 Lost...but not leased on 11.17.17 at 8:17 pm

#21 Fran Deck Jr.

Good post….
I know I will catch a lot of flack for this but in BC we recently had an Abbotsford Police Officer shot and killed.

Very Sad.

However, the incident has been puffed up ad naseum in the media to the point is I can’t recall other parties who have met unfortunate demises having anywhere near the media attention that this officer has.

People go to work daily..some never make it home, YET many were performing a service req’d by society to function…BUT who mourns for them ?

Your comment about Gov’t workers is timely….I used to have a lot of respect for police and other civil servants,but my opinion has shifted dramatically via personal experience.

I see the police morseo as Gov’t goons and thugs,enforcing stupid laws passed at the politicized whims of the Gov’t of the day and morseo the RCMP…which does not have honourable roots and is simply a bunch of quasi -military Regina graduates who are simply part of a Federal(public) business-bureaucracy that leases out these Law Enforcement contract to Local Gov’ts..often with blank-cheque contracts.

This blog has a party that often chimes in about the lack of job security for civil servants…I think the problem lies with those with job security who are NOT indispensable, but should be held far more accountable.

#64 Serfin' Safari on 11.17.17 at 8:21 pm

hopefully millennials wake up to the truth of-

fabricated history
fabricated current events (news)
fabricated (manipulated) weather
fabricated scarcity of housing
and of course-
private central banking
featuring alchemists in business suits

#65 vulcan without ears on 11.17.17 at 8:22 pm

https://www.centris.ca/fr/propriete~a-vendre~varennes?&uc=3
20 minutes drive to montreal

#66 Dolce Vita on 11.17.17 at 8:23 pm

Honest to God Garth:

“decaying Boomers who hold the good positions and refuse to retire”

That is utter bullocks.

Those holding high paying jobs are GenX and the youngest of the Boomers.

Peruse the age group density vs. upper tax brackets, in particular the 3rd and 4th tax brackets by age:

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/cra-arc/migration/cra-arc/gncy/stts/itstb-sipti/2015/tbl4o-eng.pdf

Today, you are writing like South Park:

Blame Canada.

#67 I believe everything on television on 11.17.17 at 8:26 pm

the best advice to millennials: is get yourself on title to your parents property, while you still can

#68 steph on 11.17.17 at 8:26 pm

G… I don’t get your downplay on the PQ situation. It ain’t better here than in TO, nominal are smaller but multiples and somewhat equivalent.

#69 Andrew Woburn on 11.17.17 at 8:26 pm

My wife are just back from a few good days visiting the AGO, Queen West and Kensington Market in TO. Old hippies never die apparently. Still I found no regrets for having left Toronto in my middle thirties.

In 1979 I realized that I could always earn $10-15K a year more in Toronto, say $30-40K in today’s money, but by the time I paid the tax on the difference and then endured the high cost of living it was about a wash. Even in those days commuting was brutal so what was the point? Instead of scrimping for thirty years so I could retire in BC, I just moved there. I had nothing, so the worst case was I would have to move back.

Today’s Toronto still makes overdeveloped Vancouver look like a village and Van is already becoming intolerable. Why would you choose economic serfdom to merely exist in a place that is a vision of expressway dystopia everywhere outside of the privileged areas?

#70 Figured it Out on 11.17.17 at 8:30 pm

#4 John Dough:
The guy with the bag full of cash and the guy who gave it to him. Really, nobody else gets these?

#71 Deplorable house guests on 11.17.17 at 8:32 pm

#42 Smoking Man on 11.17.17 at 7:42 pm
If you do your job as a dad good. You bread entrupenurs and masculine men who respect a good woman. That way you can cash in at peek real Estate and move in with your kid till you land that dream gig in southern California.
My book will hit the big screens in two years. I’ll win the Oscar for best writer but won’t show up to claim the price

Hollywood is to perverted for me.

Leaving kunackstan a week tomorrow. I’m going to help Make America Great Again.

I’ll be back in 2019 to help T2 become a drama teacher again.
..

So your kid finally kicked you out on yer ass.. lol should make a reality show of smokey living wit the kids

#72 Andrew Woburn on 11.17.17 at 8:34 pm

Here the words, Kia, BMW, Audi and Jaguar nestle together in the same article. Isn’t that like putting Ella Fitzgerald and Adele on the same billing?

Introducing the Kia Stinger GT S.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/kia/kia-stinger-gt-s-review-really-serious-rival-bmw-audi/

#73 Mobile on 11.17.17 at 8:39 pm

Did exactly as described in the post and moved the family out of GTA into a mid sized Canadian city. It has been TRANSFORMATIONAL! High quality detached houses at 30% of GTA levels. Our overall living expenses more than halved. Priceless. Just do it! Warning: your financial health may improve dramatically.

#74 For those about to flop... on 11.17.17 at 8:40 pm

Recent Sale Report.

This house sold 28 days ago.

3641 w 11th ave, Vancouver.

Originally asking 4.28 then4.17 then 3.88 then 3.63 then 3.59

Sold for 3.3

Tax assessment 3.61

So they were perhaps a little ambitious with the opening ask, putting up a number that might have flown in Spring 2016…

M43BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/3641-w-11th-avenue

#75 wake up and smell the future on 11.17.17 at 8:41 pm

Niagara
With legal pot in Canada there will be a tourism uptick in Niagara Falls where the infrastructure can handle pot tourism. Lot’s of hothouses to grow hydroponics too.

#76 Sort of a sandwich on 11.17.17 at 8:41 pm

What if you want to make the choice and you want to leave Vancouver, but you’re a Gen Xer whose parents need your help and they are happy in Vancouver because of course they have a paid off house worth millions that they bought in the early 80s.

You’re paying high rent, etc. (NOT living in their basement just to be clear…) and know you could have a better lifestyle if you left and you want to leave, but ethically you just can’t abandon them (and your other sibling beat you to leaving and won’t be coming back). I can’t make them leave. I don’t want to stay. But I can’t turn my back (they can’t even drive anymore).

There’s no answer really. I guess I’m just whining.

#77 wake up and smell the future on 11.17.17 at 8:42 pm

i forgot the musical link-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=48&v=A6c6eUeoa9Q

It’s All Going To Pot – Willie Nelson & Merle Haggard

#78 Chico on 11.17.17 at 8:48 pm

I almost forgot one of my favorite stories. 22 years ago. Family gathering on the prairies. New sister in law, raised in small town Quebec, went to get her doctorate in TO, met my older brother, came from big money, smart girl.

Slides are being shown on the wall of hikes my ex went on in the Rockies. Fabulous shots, high quality camera, breathtaking! My french Canadian in law asks…”is this Canada?” She was sincere. She had money, an education, intelligence, and yet she couldn’t even recognize the most iconic shots of the Canadian Rockies!

People will move to other places of the country if they have to, if they have some other family member that tells them it’s worth it, if hell freezes over, but rarely because they’ve put some real serious time and effort into it.

#79 akashic record on 11.17.17 at 8:53 pm

The Democracy Alliance, a donor club of deep-pocketed liberal donors that each pledge to direct hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding to approved left-wing groups, descended on California’s posh La Costa Resort on Wednesday morning for its fall donor summit. The group continued its tradition of secrecy, promising all members and guests of the summit their participation would “remain confidential.”

The first page of the conference agenda, which was obtained by the Washington Free Beacon and can be viewed in its entirety below, lays out “participation guidelines,” explaining that the Democracy Alliance is a “safe place” for donors and activists to meet.

Guests are instructed not to share members’ names with the press and not to post to any social media sites, to contact Democracy Alliance if “the media or a blogger” contacts them, and to “refrain from leaving sensitive materials out where others may find them.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-17/beyond-resistance-soros-pelosi-headline-lefts-biggest-dark-money-conference

“Democratic Alliance” sounds like the political elite version of “antifa”, in the true spirit of “Open Society” as George Soros imagines it. Resisting democratic election results and hatching ideas to overthrow the legitimate government.

#80 Chico on 11.17.17 at 9:00 pm

#61 Willy H on 11.17.17 at 8:07 pm

#22 Linda on 11.17.17 at 6:56 pm

While depressing, still an excellent post. One point though – first, the ‘never before’ should be edited to say ‘in recent history’. Because it used to be normal for people to live together in the same house with multiple generations, one atop the other in Western society.

___ ___ ___ ___

Excellent observation. This notion of leaving home at 20 to find your way in the world is a 20th Century anomaly, just like the once prosperous and thriving post-WWII middle class.

Generations lived together under the same roof their entire lives and the older generation instilled hard work, common sense, thrift and social responsibility on the younger. There was an even bigger bonus with this set-up > people actually cared both physically and emotionally for other family members each and every day! Yup, they didn’t just Facebook post each other!

Western society has strayed from this norm in the extreme.

Leaving home at 20 (or 25 for that matter) is no indicator of maturity, personal or financial success today. Quite the opposite, with interest-free money raining down from all directions, our bloated welfare state, helicopter parents, bank of mom & dad, bank of Granda & Granna, and a built-in sense of entitlement*.

*caused by absolutely shitty parenting!

For most of human history generations have lived under the same roof. We have developed perverse expectations in this area for our youth.

I guess that’s why most of us will end up in sterile nursing homes waiting to give up our last breath!

So much for progress.

————–

Well said!

#81 Smoking Man on 11.17.17 at 9:07 pm

#70 Deplorable house guests on 11.17.17 at 8:32 pm
#42 Smoking Man on 11.17.17 at 7:42 pm
If you do your job as a dad good. You bread entrupenurs and masculine men who respect a good woman. That way you can cash in at peek real Estate and move in with your kid till you land that dream gig in southern California.
My book will hit the big screens in two years. I’ll win the Oscar for best writer but won’t show up to claim the price

Hollywood is to perverted for me.

Leaving kunackstan a week tomorrow. I’m going to help Make America Great Again.

I’ll be back in 2019 to help T2 become a drama teacher again.
..

So your kid finally kicked you out on yer ass.. lol should make a reality show of smokey living wit the kids
..

Yeah he did. Season one already penciled in. I’m a writer.
He lost a cool hottie when she discovered the hidden bed in the closet. The one he sleeps in.

We don’t judge the out come but hate teachers.
Globalist happy obedient not knowing slaves.

Stupid teaching stupid.

2+2 is four not 22 Google it.

#82 Cdn Mom on 11.17.17 at 9:07 pm

#51 Chico on 11.17.17 at 7:53 pm

“Where did Gretzky play his junior hockey? The Soo. 75,000 people. Real people live there.”

Yes. I do. (And for those that don’t know, Soo is the phonetic nickname for Sault Ste. Marie, ON). I have lived in suburban Vancouver, downtown Toronto, Guelph (southern Ontario), and smaller towns, returning to my home area. We left BC’s Lower Mainland in 1998 and never looked back. My BC husband has been happy here, his parents and sister’s family followed, and have happily been here for years.

For well under $200,000 we moved to Lake Superior’s shore last year, 1.25 acres, 20 minutes from town, 1500 sq ft, new empty nesters. House we had in town, raised two kids in on a single, blue collar income, was a solid wartime house. Both kids, 22 and 19, now independent in town, one “homeowner”, one renter.

Great place if you love the outdoors, all four seasons. Ice cave climbing, rock climbing, boating, snow machines, hiking, camping, all sports, fishing, hunting, etc. Rush hour traffic…LOL. Yeah, right.

An hour’s flight will get you to Pearson, or Toronto’s island airport with Air Canada or Porter. Drive immediately across the border with the US and fly Delta an hour to Detroit’s Delta hub airport. Buy yourself a cottage (called a camp here) within a 30 minute drive of the city on an inland lake, Lake Superior, or Lake Huron. Or live on a lake.

In the last month we were in London, ON, Sudbury, ON, Toronto, and Mexico. (On a single, blue collar income.). Won’t catch me on the 401 or 400 again for a verrrrrry long time. I’ll watch the waves on Superior until the next trip (cash).

Here are a bunch of good paying jobs, if you’re interested in a relaxed, enjoyable life. One income jobs that can raise a family, in your own house. All the old fogeys are retiring.

https://www.algoma.com/careers/current-opportunities/

#83 WUL on 11.17.17 at 9:08 pm

Garth:

Which side of the 4th Meridian in Lloydminster would you recommend? Sask or Alta?

#84 Deplorable Dude on 11.17.17 at 9:18 pm

And something else to make it even worse for those 20’s somethings dudes still living at home. I bet it’s a nighmare trying to get/keep a girlfriend…..the second she finds out you still live at home with mummy….your value to her just dropped off a cliff….sorry to say but true.

Given our modern societal cost demands of requiring 2 income earners to survive any type of cohabitation…nightmare trying to leave the nest.

#85 FLHTK on 11.17.17 at 9:36 pm

I agree, this blog is spot on! The problem is no-one coming out of university or college is willing to move for a good job! They want to stay close to the tit. Thats the problem! I’d move anywhere to have a good job, house, money in the bank knowing that mom is just a short flight away. Good thing i’m already established and don’t have to do that again but still. These young people are screwed.

#86 Porsche on 11.17.17 at 9:39 pm

I’m a boomer that rents and still works. I’m road trash so why would I want to be house poor and never live in it.

My ex suffers from depression and she’s the one with the house… figure that one out.

My 22 year old still lives at home with mom and bounces around low pay landscape jobs.

Life’s great!

#87 Milennial Matt on 11.17.17 at 9:41 pm

Once I got over the fact that I won’t own a home in the Greater Vancouver area for at least 10 years (I’m 29 now) it made my life a lot less stressful. Renting in this neighbourhood has its quirks but I have a decent 2br close to the SkyTrain for $1350/mo so I can’t complain. Being close to family is mostly good too. However, Montréal and Halifax do sound appealing.

#88 steerage steward on 11.17.17 at 9:42 pm

This is how I found very reasonable rental property in YVR, might help some Mills. Been living in my rented apartment in YVR for over ten years now, rent hasn’t gone up since I moved in.

Before deciding on a building I did research on the area, and some buildings I was interested in. Ignored advertisements/signs for vacancies. Sit in a car outside a building on a Saturday night and watch/listen what is going on let’s you know what a building is really about.

After narrowing it down to a few buildings I buzzed the manager (a building without a manager on the buzzer who does not come to the door is red flag). Once they answered I introduced myself briefly, and handed them a hand written letter explaining my background and desire to rent there. Not the only time that good penmanship has come in handy!

All four had contacted me within 6mths, three I politely thanked since I had already moved in.

Have always helped out in the building, eg get groceries for older tenants when they need it, shovel snow, vacuum the halls, etc. This takes a few mins a week and makes you more then just a guy that shoves a cheque under a door every month.

The building has long term tenants who value the community. Was at the managers fund raiser for the local hospital on Wed, at which most of the City Council were in attendance.

Real estate shouldn’t about getting better granite counter tops then your friends. It’s supposed to be about building a community.

#89 Ronaldo on 11.17.17 at 9:42 pm

#72 Mobile

Good for you. One of the smart one.

#90 young & foolish on 11.17.17 at 9:46 pm

We are in strange economic times … and honest people, well educated in financial affairs would agree. Central banks buying equities, prolonged near 0 rates, huge infusions of new money, ridiculous asset valuations, etc.

Our little overheated RE urban markets are a small affair. Does anybody really know where we are headed? Do we just “keep calm and carry on” ?

#91 CPTA2020 on 11.17.17 at 9:47 pm

I’m a 33 year old moister, moved out when I was 16, Married with two kids and a house in Toronto, don’t get caught up in all the none sense, work hard and follow the beaten path, we are not inventing the wheel here, save and buy a house you will not regret it.

#92 Entrepreneur on 11.17.17 at 10:17 pm

The youth are definitely stuck in limbo, not able to move to the next level of life. Wonder if this will backfire on us one day when we need their strength to survive? Oh, we think we are so smart but apparently not smart enough. Be kind to the youth or like the old saying “you get what you deserve.”

BTW, google Dr. William Courtney and/or “Why You Should Be Eating Raw Weed” not the dried or cooked marijuana as that destroys THCa to the THC, the psychoactive form. So weed is only good when eating it raw and it is not psychoactive. To me our leaders have turned into “drug pushers.”

A couple of blogs ago #229 Guilaume mentioned that the sins like cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, etc. should not be paid with credit, good idea. Imagine if housing was paid without credit/debt, back to reality. But we live in sinful times with casinos in every community which the government take their lump sum and not worry about jobs for the area. ( Lot of logs are shipped away, mills closed and heard View Royal, Victoria has a new casino, people protested but ignored.)

The $15. minimum rage hike is disguising the real problem. And when the rages go up so does everything else even the basics.

The spiral to the top until ?

#93 Canuck on 11.17.17 at 10:20 pm

You stay you pay there’s no reason to live in Toronto. Toronto is catching up to New York Los Angeles Miami. Like many people have already mentioned you simply move to a small town go work at Home Depot and you can afford that $200,000 World War II house and be happy. It is ego live in Toronto especially when you’re young. If you can’t afford now you never will so move out while you can. The funniest thing is you have a computer in front of you you have the whole world in front of you and all you can think of is the 50 km in your little world. You have the whole world to sell yourself or your product to. I wish I had that when I was 15.

#94 young & foolish on 11.17.17 at 10:35 pm

Ho Hum … time to beat up on our big cities again.

Some things never change … sigh*

#95 WUL on 11.17.17 at 10:41 pm

Poor Ft. Mac. The Horse River wildfire of May 2016 changed things (along with the collapse in the price of oil). The local real estate cabal released October stats.

Some folks have chosen not to rebuild the hacienda. Some cannot. Let’s look at Single Family Vacant Lot(s) Land Prices.

October 2016 Year to Date Avge Price – $351,000

October 2017 Year to Date Avge Price – $151,000

A 57% drop.

Fort Dragsville.

http://www.fmreb.com/sites/5098200ae7e1b41bc50042de/content_entry50bf9565e7e1b41bc501133d/5a0cbd0d5918adcad9319581/files/October_2017.pdf?1510784269

#96 Democracy Is Mob Rule on 11.17.17 at 10:54 pm

13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey: 2017
Data for 3rd Quarter 2016

Median house price (Metropolitan Area all types)
Vancouver, BC $830,100
Toronto, ON $615,800
Victoria, BC $542,400
Oshawa, ON $469,700
Kelowna, BC $450,600
Calgary, AB $427,700
Hamilton, ON $426,200
Edmonton, AB $356,000
Saskatoon, SK $345,000
Kitchener, ON $333,400
Peterborough, ON $331,300
Ottawa, ON $315,300
Regina, SK $284,800
Montréal, QC $284,700
St. John’s, NL $274,900
Kingston, ON $272,900
Halifax, NS $270,000
Winnipeg, MB $257,400
London, ON $249,400
St. Catharine’s, ON $242,500
Québec, QC $234,100
Sudbury, ON $221,600
Windsor, ON $187,100
Charlottetown, PEI $174,700
Saint John, NB $161,900
Fredericton, NB $151,000
Trois-Rivières, QC $148,300
Moncton, NB $134,900

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

#97 jane24 on 11.17.17 at 10:54 pm

In the 1990’s we saw the writing on the wall that life in TO was too stressful and expensive and moved our three kids and ourselves to the south coast of England. Better quality of life at far less money, no commute, nice pubs, can fly to many places in an hour – what more do you want. Oh yes, no winter.

There are many jobs in Germany today or the northern counties that only require English and life in the south of France or south of Italy is lovely. We live in the later in the summers for only 1000 euros a month.

Article in the Daily Mail yesterday about living in Bali in a 3 bed with pool for a rental of £300 month and total cost for a family of four of £1000 a month. Son lives in Vietnam for about the same money.

Garth is right, the world is a big place. Move somewhere better. Big cities in Canada only look amazing today to third world migrants that are newly arrived. Such cities are just too crowded and expensive for the Canadian crowd who already live there. Got this particular t-shirt.

#98 depressedinvancouver on 11.17.17 at 10:57 pm

#62
???The top 10 most expensive list is as follows:
Yellowknife $1,401
Wood Buffalo, Alta. $1,251
Oakville, Ont. $1,214
Vancouver $1,159
Richmond Hill, Ont. $1,134
Toronto $1,132
Mississauga, Ont. $1,109
Richmond, B.C. $1,083
Burnaby, B.C. $1,019
Oak Bay, B.C. $866

How lovely that you posted 2016 rents. .. Have you looked at Vancouver and/or Burnaby rents for this year? They are beyond insane.

#99 LG on 11.17.17 at 11:00 pm

@72

Completely agree. After living in Toronto for 58 yrs finally decided we’d had enough of the traffic, bad drivers, construction, etc & moved to a small city of 98k ppl just outside of Toronto & just love it. Fresh air, no traffic & lots of friendly ppl, walking trails, biking, the lake, & much less stress. Would never move back again.

#100 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.17.17 at 11:01 pm

I don’t understand how anyone could stand to be at home after twenty, I left at sixteen never went back way too much pride and stubbornness.
————————————————————
I lived at home, rent free, until I got married at 34. My parents are wonderful. Our family was quite wealthy. We had a huge 4-story house on the lake shore in the Eastern Townships of Quebec. My boat was docked right outside. People I knew used to get after me about moving out and getting my own place, but I didn’t have much money and I wasn’t about to pay $350/month to some landlord just so I could have a small apartment with a view of someone’s air conditioner across an alleyway in Magog. My mind works differently than most people’s; I see the big picture (where would be the pride in paying a stranger so that you can live a life far inferior to that which you already have). I don’t fault others for living at home. Most of those who criticize are petty, jealous people who don’t like the thought of someone not having to part with their money for rent or mortgage.

#101 Walter Safety on 11.17.17 at 11:07 pm

The thing about leaving Toronto or Vancouver as a urban millennial is you are already 10 years behind the curve as rural millennials know how to do a lot of different kinds of work- daddy taught them on the farm.They’ve been hired. No way they were allowed to play video games 12 hrs a day.
Rural girls go off to university but then come back to marry that boy from high school .
If there are no jobs they create one for themselves.
They will commute if they have to but it’s not frustrating.
The rurals know about city life and don’t want it but most city millennials will never know how satisfying a day of manual labour feels.
What is depressing and hasn’t been mentioned is the parental abuse from the basement dwellers.
It is extremely unbecoming to blame your parents for your life after age 30.

#102 akashic record on 11.17.17 at 11:08 pm

Back to basics.

Our 7 Ojibway Teachings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASjfNI_lD0

#103 mike from mtl on 11.17.17 at 11:10 pm

#66 Dolce Vita on 11.17.17 at 8:23 pm

Those holding high paying jobs are GenX and the youngest of the Boomers.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Totally untrue, I know of at least three boomers who ‘retired’ from quasi-government jobs – TWICE. Only to collect full pensions each and still work ‘part time’, plus CPP QPP. Which we all currently must fund, totally unfair would you say?

At least these pieces of furniture have a limited unnegciable lifetime. 2020s here we come!

#104 Mobile on 11.17.17 at 11:23 pm

#72 Mobile
#88 Ronaldo
Thanks. Indeed, with the benefit of the hindsight, it appears as an excellent choice. In GTA we were depleting our investments, now we are again adding to them. Cost of living in GTA renting – 9000+ out of which 3200 was for rent and parking. Landlord would not hesitate to increase the rent every year as despite this price, she had tons of demand. Cost of living now: around 4500 owning a house paying an accelerated mortgage of CAD1100 to be paid off in 20 years (putting down 35% helps and it was probably the same amount you would spend just on taxes for a comparable GTA house). Here we spend much more time doing things together as a family. In GTA, we would spend too much money on entertaining us and kids in a commercial way. Far less need for it now that we have a 100×200 lot with 100+ yrs old maple trees on it. I built a tree house for kids and they could not be happier just playing outside after school, to which we walk.

We have four small children who are starting to have hobbies and despite having some wealth and good incomes, we simply could not make it financially work in GTA. On the top of the horrible traffic, limited and overpriced rental options for a family of our size, that place just sucks money from your pockets.

We sometimes visit GTA and it is always hundreds of dollars spent on gas driving around, parking, expensive entries, expensive food if you want eat something else but junk. In our current place everything is super close, kids have tons of quality hobbies, there are universities, hospitals, great nature… Plenty of families around have just one income by choice from normal occupations and still manage to raise their kids and own their home.

#105 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.17.17 at 11:23 pm

My french Canadian in law asks…”is this Canada?” She was sincere. She had money, an education, intelligence, and yet she couldn’t even recognize the most iconic shots of the Canadian Rockies!
———————————————————————–
How shall I put this? Are you aware that in the Swiss Alps or the South American Andes you can take photos that look essentially like the Canadian Rockies. Not everyone can discern Mount Robson from every angle or will recognize Peyto Lake. She was likely used to seeing people’s trip photos from the Alps or Andes and if no one had specified where the photos were taken…….
You really should travel more.

#106 akashic record on 11.17.17 at 11:30 pm

You live here on a truly sacred land that takes your breath away and humbles you.

It is the sacred landscape and the sacred teachings of the invisible Natives of this land that makes you realize how truly blessed you are that you can walk here is the sun raise and in the sunset.

#107 MF on 11.17.17 at 11:38 pm

Garth kind of touched on a few things I’ve been mentioning here.

Yes rents are too high, but If you want “big city feel”, then Toronto is the only real city in Canada that will provide it. I’ve been all across the country, and I’m sorry but nothing else come close to the energy of the GTA. This is in addition to the higher number of jobs available.

I know I prefer this big city feel, and so do TONS of others. Hence the high rents/prices.

Garth mentions the negatives of condos but there are a lot of positives as well. For one, the building element is not only a negative but a positive as well since a building can go up in the middle of the city and give you a place to live right close to main intersections/transit. The lifestyle is also carefree as well. Many people prefer it (me included).

We heard about the overbuilding of condos in 2013/2014 and what have prices done since then? Upwards and onwards. My guess is that this will continue. Jobs, energy, demand. Too many tailwinds.

MF

#108 MF on 11.17.17 at 11:45 pm

#99 Walter Safety on 11.17.17 at 11:07 pm

True. Lots of us have zero interest in rural life. The lack of skills you talk about is also true. I just figure if push came to shove, I would learn and adapt. No biggie. Nice to get away for a few days here and there, but I still prefer the concrete jungle.

#98 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.17.17 at 11:01 pm

Indeed. I have lived on my own for 6 years but if I needed to, I know I could always go back to my parents. Paying rent is crap, and I do not fault anyone for living at home longer than “society” decides they should. In my eyes, people who were “kicked out” by their parents at a younger age have no advantage..maybe a slight disadvantage as many are addicted to some substance or cannot handle relationships.

MF

#109 MF on 11.17.17 at 11:50 pm

#63 Lost…but not leased on 11.17.17 at 8:17 pm

“This blog has a party that often chimes in about the lack of job security for civil servants…I think the problem lies with those with job security who are NOT indispensable, but should be held far more accountable.”

-Do you mean me?

Well put and I agree 100%.

MF

#110 Long-Time Lurker on 11.17.17 at 11:54 pm

Here’s that Maclean’s article about Canadian debt that I wrote about yesterday:

How Canadian homes became debt traps

Canadians have been using their homes as piggy banks. Has the reckoning begun?

Joe Castaldo
November 13, 2017

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/realestateeconomy/how-canadian-homes-became-debt-traps/

#111 MF on 11.18.17 at 12:00 am

#17 nick on 11.17.17 at 6:51 pm

Yes but that is true for any large city. I was recently in New York. Same sullen faces on transit every day running the rat race.

Toronto is not New York..but Toronto is the New York of Canada.

MF

#112 Homeless on 11.18.17 at 12:20 am

People, what do you think about buying some land? For example a couple of acres on Some island (bc)? Can’t afford to build anything but just to keep for appreciation or for my children. What expenses come with it?

#113 Left Van....and happy for it on 11.18.17 at 12:22 am

I agree. You dont have to stay in vancouver. I was renting for 1700 a month for a 1 bedroom appt and day care was almost 1700. Its just not doable. I decided vancouver was just not for me and the “little” money my family made. I left. Moved to montreal where my rent is almost half for a spot twice the size. To anyone reading this that is on the fence…..leave vancouver. Find a job and move to portland, seattle, calgary, anywhere. Vancouver is just not for you.

#114 Where's The Money Guido? on 11.18.17 at 12:36 am

Re: #63 Lost…but not leased on 11.17.17 at 8:17 pm

“”””I see the police morseo as Gov’t goons and thugs,enforcing stupid laws passed at the politicized whims of the Gov’t of the day and morseo the RCMP…which does not have honourable roots and is simply a bunch of quasi -military Regina graduates who are simply part of a Federal(public) business-bureaucracy that leases out these Law Enforcement contract to Local Gov’ts..often with blank-cheque contracts.””””
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Proof in the pudding:
After these raids, the RCMP said the BC Legislature had been infiltrated by organized crime.
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/vancouver-sun/20090217/282668978255082
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Legislature_Raids
https://www.straight.com/article/police-raids-and-bc-rail
And this:
http://www.waterwarcrimes.com/organized-crime-controls-british-columbia-government-by-attorney-general-branch.html

I always wondered why the Hells Angels were never designated a criminal organization in BC like in other provinces, even though a lot of their top echelon have been convicted of crimes in murder, drug trafficking, human trafficking-prostitution et al? Maybe because their headquarters are here?
http://www.gangstersout.com/registry.htm
http://gangstersout.com/civil_liberty.pdf

They usually say that sea ports attract the nare-do-wells. Well Vancouver has proven that to be true.

Governments were introduced to separate the plebes from the aristocrats and it hasn’t changed from the days before Caesar or the Greeks.
Gov’ts are there to fleece the public and it will never change unless WE do something about it.
Will YOU get off your recliner to confront the elephant in the room.
Yeah, thought so; it cuts into beer guzzling, hockey and babe oogling.
Carry on…….

#115 Informed Millennial on 11.18.17 at 1:11 am

#101 mike from mtl on 11.17.17 at 11:10 pm

Totally untrue, I know of at least three boomers who ‘retired’ from quasi-government jobs – TWICE. Only to collect full pensions each and still work ‘part time’, plus CPP QPP. Which we all currently must fund, totally unfair would you say?

At least these pieces of furniture have a limited unnegciable lifetime. 2020s here we come!
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That is so true. I’ve seen it happen multiple times as well, especially in government companies. I’ve also been to several interviews where it was clear they already had a specific person in line for the job, thus wasting my time. Many employers don’t want to take the time to train new grads. They keep rehiring the retired folks, while complaining that there is a shortage of workers with enough experience. I’ve stared at countless entry level jobs asking for 2+ years of experience, and a ridiculous laundry list of required qualifications. I know a bunch of people in my age range who are underemployed, still paying off student loans, and can’t afford to move out.

I made the move from Ontario to Alberta for better career prospects. I have a kid now but no family support here, and it is difficult. Moving for a career is a huge sacrifice, and possible loss of support. I can understand why some millennials don’t do it.

I just wish that the boomers who refuse to retire can see what they’re doing to our generation. All mellennials are not cut from the same cloth. Yes there are some lazy, entitled ones; but there are some lazy, entitled boomers too. We’re not all asking for handouts, just an opportunity to prove ourselves in “attainable” jobs.

#116 Zaalim on 11.18.17 at 1:14 am

Excuse my ranting.

My parents have so far ruined me. They were the overprotective, helicopter asian parents that you hear so much about and even being 24 years old now, they still treat me like im 15. Is it any wonder then that Im basically a bum in their house?

I really do want to gain freedom and independence but its been 2 years since Ive received my Bsc. Biology and am still without a career path.

On the bright side, Im in the process for this 1 scientific sales job that Im super excited about but Im also nervous that if I dont get it, life will go back to being shitty.

If anyone has other career paths/suggestions in ANY field, let me know! I hope Garth can do a post about this for all his moister readers lol.

#117 fishman on 11.18.17 at 1:23 am

Take your pick: capitalists outprice prospective residents:communists pass nonresidency laws. In the USSR the most valued paper was a Moscow residency. The local girls with Moscow papers wouldn’t date the Canadian english teachers. Too poor, they had their pick of Russian men. The canucks had to settle for the peasant girls from the countryside without Moscow papers. Without residency papers you had no access to schools, medical,jobs other than under the table.
Same in red China. A friend was born there & her father had a Shanghai residency permit but not her mother. Her mother &her & her brother lived 120 miles away. They couldn’t get a Shanghai residency permit. Her mother went to see her father every three weeks or so & left the daughter & brother alone at home on that weekend. The father was a minor party official too. The family grew up separated with visiting rights.
The big city has jobs. People see opportunity & migrate to the city. Impossible to build enough social housing. Can’t have a welfare city & open borders. Just to keep a minimum quality of life the city either prices the poor out or uses permits keeping the politically incorrect out.

#118 Vanecdotal on 11.18.17 at 1:43 am

A pretty accurate albeit depressing assessment of the status quo in today’s post.

In keeping with today’s theme, millennials really are screwed, (cue SCM) but Gen X (wooyay I’m late Gen X), even more so: https://globalnews.ca/news/3854264/boomers-gen-x-millennials-cost-of-living-canada/

“When you look at earnings, generation X is the real loser

In 1977, as a wave of young Canadians born right after the Second World War was establishing themselves in the workforce, the average hourly earnings for employees peaked at over $24, adjusted for inflation. Today, young Canadians taking up their first job face a labour market where things have barely changed: The average hourly pay for full-time employees in 2016 was $27.70, according to Statistics Canada.

But wages didn’t just stagnate for 40 years. A look at the breakdown by age reveals that, especially for men, earnings for younger workers actually dropped and climbed back up between 1980 and 2017. As the chart below shows, wages fell for Canadians aged 17 to 34 through the 1980s, largely stagnated in the 1990s and didn’t start recouping the lost ground until around 2005.”

So, 2 generations behind the boomers losing ground, with the largest new voting demographic shaping public policy for the foreseeable future. Interesting times.

#119 down_boy on 11.18.17 at 1:46 am

There have been brief eras when we didn’t label each other. Solutions came easier. Maybe people should talk more about what kind of town they want to build, rather than what house they want to buy. One thing about those wildfires in BC this summer, people put in hundreds of hours individually to support their communities. The only discussion about real estate was whether your house was torched or standing.

#120 Exodus 2020 on 11.18.17 at 2:29 am

Refreshing post where advice that renting is “always” the best option is yesterday’s news. Believe me, I’m looking for an exit strategy to move to an affordable city where I can own. But assuming an entire population has the same mobility is the same as assuming the entire country is the same real estate market… there are unique situations. I live and work in vancouver and hate it. I make over $70k a year, and am barely saving, don’t have a life outside of work and driving in heavy traffic. Vancouver is a soulless soul sucking city definitely not ideal for families, but it had a lot of potential when I first moved there 20 years ago. And people are starting to flee vancouver and they will then bid up prices of the affordable cities, so best get in the flight game early.

#121 Oot of the Hoos on 11.18.17 at 3:52 am

Which of these things is not like the other?

This one: “insane conservativism born of suspicion”.

#122 TRT on 11.18.17 at 5:17 am

Take back your government.

Don’t buy into the propaganda.

#123 Howard on 11.18.17 at 6:05 am

You forgot the best part. When a doddering Boomer does finally retire, he or she comes back as a « consultant », hired by boomer friends who have yet to retire. These boomer parasitic post-retirement consultants do basically no real work for a hefty fee. I’ve seen this charade many times. One particularly egregious case – a retired Boomer paid $200k over a year to « consult » on an SAP project, without one single deliverable during that time. Several times he was caught snoozing during meetings. For this he was paid $200k. And this wasn’t even public sector. The Millennial who eventually took over the role had to start from scratch….for a third the pay. And he actually had to do real work.

It will be some time before the workforce is rid of these Boomer parasite consultants. Millennials may be whiny and whatnot, but the greed of the Boomer generation just astounds me.

#124 under the radar on 11.18.17 at 6:11 am

I have seen it countless times. Too much debt crushes people. People used these ultra low rates to load up on more toys and more house. What they should have been doing is paying off as quickly as possible .

#125 Dharma Bum on 11.18.17 at 7:16 am

The premium for living now in 416 or 604 is extreme, unrelenting, draining and destructive. It’s about to get worse. If you try, you may never recover. Get out and get a life. -Garth
——————————————————————–

It all ends in tears anyway.

#126 Dharma Bum on 11.18.17 at 7:27 am

#114 Zaalim

If anyone has other career paths/suggestions in ANY field, let me know!
——————————————————————–
Really?

Plumber
Electrician
Automotive Mechanic
Construction Manager
Heavy Equipment and Machinery Operator
HVAC Technician
Sheet Metal Worker
Structural iron and Steel Worker
Brick Mason and Block Mason
Electronics Repair Technician
Elevator Repair and Installation
Milwright

Get a trade, lad. Then get a proper job.

http://nacc.ca/the-5-best-skilled-trades-jobs-in-canada/?

#127 Wrk.dover on 11.18.17 at 7:35 am

Thanks for your fair and balanced view on the situation.

I thought the GTA/horse shoe sucked in these same ways 38 years ago and left.

Life restoring move! The time off after paying off the self built house at 35 is almost full time off. Property tax has just climbed over the thousand dollar per year point now. Easy peasy.

M64NS

#128 Dobermanduke on 11.18.17 at 8:04 am

#67 I believe everything on television on 11.17.17 at 8:26 pm

the best advice to millennials: is get yourself on title to your parents property, while you still can

Seriously, what makes you think they want you to have it?

#129 Cto on 11.18.17 at 8:25 am

124 Dharma bum

I have a sneaky idea that Saleem’s parents didn’t bring him up to get his fingers dirty.

#130 Chico on 11.18.17 at 8:35 am

#103 Pete from St. Cesaire on 11.17.17 at 11:23 pm

My french Canadian in law asks…”is this Canada?” She was sincere. She had money, an education, intelligence, and yet she couldn’t even recognize the most iconic shots of the Canadian Rockies!
———————————————————————–
How shall I put this? Are you aware that in the Swiss Alps or the South American Andes you can take photos that look essentially like the Canadian Rockies. Not everyone can discern Mount Robson from every angle or will recognize Peyto Lake. She was likely used to seeing people’s trip photos from the Alps or Andes and if no one had specified where the photos were taken…….
You really should travel more.

——————

You’re missing the point Pete. She didn’t know we had mountains like the Rockies!!! It had nothing to do with her being from Quebec. Ask someone outside of Quebec about Drummondville, Quebec City, Three Rivers or perhaps St. Cesaire, and the vast majority will draw a blank. The country is huge and most people can’t be bothered to learn about other places and people in their own country. People are fearful of moving to other places because they worry if they do they’ll fall into a black hole or something. They slag other parts of the country because they don’t want to admit they’re ignorant and haven’t really done their research.

#131 whyme on 11.18.17 at 8:37 am

You can’t export a house or a condo.

If we had laws that biased lending to industries rather than fuelling a housing bubble and speculation during a low interest rate era, we could have invested Trillions in emerging new industries to provide jobs to more than the construction and “Unreal Estate” industry.

#132 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 8:52 am

@#121 Howard
“It will be some time before the workforce is rid of these Boomer parasite consultants. Millennials may be whiny and whatnot, but the greed of the Boomer generation just astounds me.”
++++++

Well you have the “whiny” part down right.
And it isnt just Boomers that have a monopoly on greed. Just look around at any morbidly obese child, teen, Millenial…….
Seek help Howie ,you sound a tad jealous that you cant sleep at work or better yet , how much time do you and you Millenial compatriots waste “surfing” or ‘Texting” on paid company time? I see it all the time..
The solution?
Start you own company and stop sitting around bitching about why “all the other people” get the good jobs.
Good luck finding skilled, motivated Millenial staff that actually realize they have to work hard from the bottom up to get into the position where they can “come in late and leave early”.
My 50 + year old workers kick ass when placed with 25 year olds. Higher productivity and motivated.
The Boomers actually show up to work, actually show up to work on time, and (horrors) actually take direction without complaint.
The Boomers rarely stop to text to a friend, spouse, child, parent, co worker, or anyone else that they consider important enough to deserve an immediate responce, every 5 minutes, all day long…….Its actually become a bargaining issue in union negotiations, no personal phones at work unless you are on break or lunch.
As for parasites in the workplace……one need look no further than that particularly overpaid, underworked , usless job explosion in the last 10 years of Millenial empowerment and class struggle…
Human Resources

#133 The Great Gazoo on 11.18.17 at 8:54 am

Even Real Estate Developers Can’t Afford Toronto’s Housing Market

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-17/in-toronto-world-s-hottest-housing-market-starting-to-boil-over

#134 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:00 am

@#104 Akashic Record
“It is the sacred landscape and the sacred teachings of the invisible Natives of this land that makes you realize how truly blessed you are that you can walk here is the sun raise and in the sunset….”

+++++

Found some mushrooms did we?

#135 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:05 am

@#85 Porsche
“My ex suffers from depression and she’s the one with the house… figure that one out. ”

*****

Easy. She wanted the Porsche.

#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:16 am

@#51 Chico
“When we were months from leaving Langley BC, a friend heard me chatting with WestJet regarding a flight change. I told him it was for my flight to Halifax, and he asked, “where’s that?” He was 55! ”

+++++

Yep. Smug Canadians think Americans are uneducated.
Was at a university party years ago in Vancouver. Talking to some students, mentioned I was from Halifax.. Blank stares, “Thats by Quebec isnt it?”

A friend came for a visit during Expo 86. Went into a Bank to cash a Travellers Cheque ( remember THOSE?). She put the cheque on the counter with her Nova Scotia drivers license and birth certificate.
The teller asked her if she had any ID from Canada…..

Was visiting the east coast a few years back. Got pulled over for speeding. Pulled out my BC drivers license from BC…..The MOUNTIE asked me how long i had been in Canada…..( I’m white, speak english without an accent, and have an anglo saxon name)…..

Stupid Canadians or lousy schooling….either way. Ignorance is bliss

#137 Manitoba Whale on 11.18.17 at 9:29 am

#101 mike from mtl on 11.17.17 at 11:10 pm
#66 Dolce Vita on 11.17.17 at 8:23 pm

Those holding high paying jobs are GenX and the youngest of the Boomers….
————-

Again anecdotal, a lady who works at a large Canadian railway company has been bought out twice, rehired for a third time and plans to work to collect her 25 year pension early next decade.

Myself, an early GenXer, am winding down my 30 years by selling shares and working less hours as well as working more from home.

If DW and I can slow down, why wouldn’t we? Well, financially we are able, and thankful. However if you have not saved, invested wisely, have been on the downside of a recession or job loss, or divorced, it is very difficult to retire early and make way for the next generation.

Looking ahead, with he stats from GT above, the millennials will be hanging on to their jobs in 20 + years and my daughters’ generation will be complaining about those darn Millennial hanger-ons.

C’est la vie.

#138 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:35 am

@#124 Dharma Bum and #114 Zaalim
“Get a trade, lad. Then get a proper job”
+++++

Excellent answer to an excellent question.

Im setting up for retirement in the next 5 years and there is a HUGE shortage of skilled trades.

If you’re good at math I’d recommend becoming an electrician. Or better yet a “Controls Electrician” that installs control panels or trouble shoots them…not a “Slab Rat’ that bends conduit and pulls cable…
That being said.
Specializing in “Controls” can be interesting because you can work on Fire Panels, Refidgeration, Variable speed motor drives, HVAC controls, on and on and on.
Electricians are usually the biggest whiners on the jobsites…” Paint Fumes! We’re leaving!”……”Dust! We’re leaving!”……Too Hot! We’re Leaving”

If you want to get anything fixed on a jobsite just go telll the lead foreman that the electricians are sweating…..that usually raises eyebrows….cause somewhere in their Union contract……it says they arent allowed to sweat.

Trades, 4 year apprenticeship to become a journeyman “earn while you learn”…..and then you can become an entrepreneur OR …….like Howard….work for someone stupider than you.

#139 PastThePeak on 11.18.17 at 9:40 am

Outside of GTA and YVR, most of the rest of the country has housing that is within means, though is still a bit elevated (won’t crash, but could cool). As Garth notes, there are many cities with more than 500K population (we are not talking rural Canada here). The same is true in the US. Many cities with 500k-1M pop with affordable housing.

There are jobs in all of these cities. Many good jobs. Of course you have to look though – you won’t get a text telling you of a job offer with applying.

It is all about choice. One can choose to live in a city with extremely high housing costs (rent or buy) and devote most of their income to that. The “big city vibe” may be what they value most, and don’t care for other tradeoffs. Or one can choose a lesser cost city, have a house, can afford other savings, generally easier access to the outdoor activities, less stress, but less “chic urban” lifestyles.

I am sure the Millennials in general have it harder than us Gen X’ers, but my experience with the Mills here in Ottawa is that it isn’t significant. Housing a bit more expensive, but they are also better trained than we were. I started my career in the 90’s recession and jobs were scarce then too. Statistically they may stay at home later than we did, but perhaps that is cultural now.

Everyone that I went to uni with went out on their own, but rented with friends. I rented for two years with 3 others in a suburban home near work. After earning a bit more and having paid off the student loans, then moved downtown (Ottawa) for 2 years, renting an apartment with 1 other friend. Then met the future missus and we rented a place for a couple years. Then purchased house number 1 after having done some saving those first 6 years.

You don’t have to live with your parents if you want some freedom, but you shouldn’t expect to buy a house right away. Does no one rent with friends anymore, in those dumpy shacks? That is what memories of your 20’s are made of.

#140 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:44 am

…and on a lighter note

Poor Bobby Mugabe of Zimbabwe

https://www.google.ca/url?url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-zimbabwe-politics-harare/zimbabweans-celebrate-expected-fall-of-mugabe-on-harare-streets-idUSKBN1DI08B&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiUrOmyrcjXAhUHKWMKHa0eBMYQqQIIMDAJ&usg=AOvVaw23LE-F87YVgPWNa8xl0ibF

Will Bobby quietly leave the country and slither off to South Africa with billions in stolen money or will 37 years of dictatorial rule demand his head literally, on a stick?

Vladimir Putin take note.

#141 PastThePeak on 11.18.17 at 9:49 am

Just to note, Americans have a much greater tendency to travel to find work / better job / better lifestyle. I have met many through my work over the years, and most have lived in more than 2 large cities throughout their careers. Not as widespread in general in Europe, but it is common in professionals in certain areas like high tech.

This has always been lacking in Canada, but I wonder if it is getting worse. Outside of migration to GTA and YVR, it doesn’t seem to be widespread (anecdotally). Over half of immigrants go straight to one of these two centres, and it would seem most of the born here population as well. Once there, they get into their routines and never consider living anywhere else, despite the extreme cost of living pressures. Strange.

#142 Ronaldo on 11.18.17 at 9:58 am

The Bank of Mum and Dad:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/11/generation-rent-property-borrowing-from-mum-and-dad-guiltr

#143 For those about to flop... on 11.18.17 at 10:11 am

Recent Sale Report.

This one seemingly just went , as yet to be updated on zolo.

3808 w 26th ave, Vancouver.

Asking 4.28

Just sold for 3.95

Tax assessment 4.39

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/3808-w-26th-avenue

So the trend is down, but there is still a lot of money in this town…

M43BC

#144 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 10:17 am

Hmmmmm.

Real Estate and the shysters involved…..

https://www.google.ca/url?url=https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-panama/&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwizkM6wtcjXAhUXzGMKHZMGCVAQqQIINzAH&usg=AOvVaw2zfWoBCEHjoXiknn73MiPD

#145 MF on 11.18.17 at 10:20 am

#137 PastThePeak on 11.18.17 at 9:49 am

“Over half of immigrants go straight to one of these two centres, and it would seem most of the born here population as well. Once there, they get into their routines and never consider living anywhere else, despite the extreme cost of living pressures. Strange.”

-This can be easily answered. Contrary to what some people post on here, the GTA is a vibrant city with jobs, restaurants, entertainment etc. The culture is accepting, the air quality is clean, and the standard of living is high. The two city centres are where the majority of their culture in the country reside as well. Don’t expect that to change any time soon.

-I think Canadians travel less than Americans to find work because most of the country is uninhabitable.

Most professions do have higher paying positions available in the northern regions, but most people cite long winters and boredom as major deterrents. Even I can’t stand winter and I was born here.

MF

#146 Ronaldo on 11.18.17 at 10:44 am

#136 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:35 am

@#124 Dharma Bum and #114 Zaalim
“Get a trade, lad. Then get a proper job”
+++++
————————————————————–
That is great advice. Same advice I gave my sons back in 89 and 90 and today are both very successful businessmen. I suggested that rather than go to university and spend thousands of dollars, go to Trades school and you will likely be hired before your out of school and then you ‘get paid’ while your training on the job. And that is how it worked out. Both very thankful for the advice given them back then. This is where it’s at. Get a trade then go into business on your own. My contribution was 50% of the cost and they paid the balance from working in the summer.

#147 Steven Rowlandson on 11.18.17 at 10:46 am

“-I think Canadians travel less than Americans to find work because most of the country is uninhabitable.”

In my opinion all of Canada is uninhabitable because of the price. In the not too distant future it will be due to a major glaciation. Why pay so much for so little when the next ice age will put an end to Canada?

#148 Transfer on 11.18.17 at 10:58 am

#20 is spot on!
Money flows both ways.

Maybe the banks are the main benefactors of our time.
Massive mortgages with margins that are similar to high interest low principle era.

Wealth transfer from middle class to banks (and their stockholders.)

#149 crossbordershopper on 11.18.17 at 10:59 am

Todays post outlined that fact a very simple fact in life. You have only 1, most of us last 82 years give or take a few depending on genetics, and lifestyle.
Why would these investment guys keep talking about diversification, savings, portfolio allocation and all that mumbo jumbo. when the biggest risk is not making any money.
Go to the USA, try your luck, if it works out great, stay there, better weather, lower taxes, better cost of living expenses ratio.
OR, you can be stuck in Canada, in most of Canada you are stuck for jobs and upward mobility and the cost of everything. So, you only have one life, take a risk, try something, which means concentration in yourself and your skills. If you end up 70 years old and have enough cash to look after yourself great, if not, the goverment of Canada will look after you with the minimum living standard that for the most people are what they live their entire life anyway.
You owe it to yourself to take a risk and try, concentration not diversification, opportunities are everything

#150 Ronaldo on 11.18.17 at 11:02 am

#130 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 8:52 am

@#121 Howard
“It will be some time before the workforce is rid of these Boomer parasite consultants. Millennials may be whiny and whatnot, but the greed of the Boomer generation just astounds me.”
++++++

Well you have the “whiny” part down right.
And it isnt just Boomers that have a monopoly on greed. Just look around at any morbidly obese child, teen, Millenial…….
Seek help Howie ,you sound a tad jealous that you cant sleep at work or better yet , how much time do you and you Millenial compatriots waste “surfing” or ‘Texting” on paid company time? I see it all the time..
The solution?
Start you own company and stop sitting around bitching about why “all the other people” get the good jobs.
Good luck finding skilled, motivated Millenial staff that actually realize they have to work hard from the bottom up to get into the position where they can “come in late and leave early”.
My 50 + year old workers kick ass when placed with 25 year olds. Higher productivity and motivated.
The Boomers actually show up to work, actually show up to work on time, and (horrors) actually take direction without complaint.
The Boomers rarely stop to text to a friend, spouse, child, parent, co worker, or anyone else that they consider important enough to deserve an immediate responce, every 5 minutes, all day long…….Its actually become a bargaining issue in union negotiations, no personal phones at work unless you are on break or lunch.
As for parasites in the workplace……one need look no further than that particularly overpaid, underworked , usless job explosion in the last 10 years of Millenial empowerment and class struggle…
Human Resources
————————————————————-
For a second there, I thought that you were my son writing this because he has stated the very same things about the younger generation today and how difficult it is to find any that are able to do any difficult work. They like the money but don’t want to put in the effort to get it. One of the difficulties that companies in the oil patch have is finding young people that are able to do the hard work. In past years when the bulk of the population lived in rural areas (farm boys), they relied on these young men who were used to hard work to fill those jobs. I place a lot of the blame on the parents for this. Far too much coddling of poor little Billy. Can’t have him doing that kind of work can we?

#151 Therese on 11.18.17 at 11:05 am

I work with a 20 something who bought a pre-built condo downtown. The unit will be approximately one third the square footage of mine, and ironically costs 32% more than mine did. Granted, I bought an estate sale unit in an older building that is about an hour from downtown by public transit. When I mentioned that there were still great deals to be had, but involved older buildings farther out from the core he angrily shot back that mine wasn’t a walkable area and he “didn’t come here to do that”. I just shake my head.

#152 millmech on 11.18.17 at 11:07 am

#106 MF
No addiction issues just a strong independent streak, instilled that same energy in my two sons who are millennials doing very well for themselves.
They have learned perhaps the best lesson of being able to pick yourself up after you fall down.
I watch people get hit with hardship and loss(job/marriage) and those are the ones that crumble and fall into addiction and other issues.
Those who have experienced adversity embrace it and become stronger from each experience.

#153 millmech on 11.18.17 at 11:12 am

#136
Get two trades that cross over ie; electrician/hvac, hd mechanic/welder, millwright/power engineer, carpenter/mason when your dual ticketed your never out of work

#154 Chico on 11.18.17 at 11:22 am

-This can be easily answered. Contrary to what some people post on here, the GTA is a vibrant city with jobs, restaurants, entertainment etc. The culture is accepting, the air quality is clean, and the standard of living is high.

—————–

I like the part about “the air is clean.” Please define clean. Compared to Mexico City, sure…compared to Calgary, Kelowna, Halifax, Moncton, Ottawa, St. John, Winnipeg, Victoria or Peterborough, no. But just watch a summer sunset from Ottawa and see how the beautiful “clean air” of the GTO turns the setting sun into a filthy orange/brown color that I’ve never seen in any other part of the country.

I have no doubt that there are lots of inviting things about Toronto, but please don’t tell me how clean the air is, especially when I have also had the unpleasant experience of commuting there. Five lanes of traffic going in both directions does not help in any way facilitate “clean air.”

#155 For those about to flop... on 11.18.17 at 11:29 am

Pink Pumpkin Update.

These guys been up and down more times than a yo-yo.

Finally got rid of the photo that had last years snow on the lawn all through the summer as a testament to its staleness.

Been trying to sell this place for 13 months now.

They are not alone, still have multiple cases from the original batch of houses that I took in when I decided it was a good idea to track and show results on here while I had my foot in plaster and was doped up on Tramadol.

These guys paid 1.3 and are now asking 1.19

Maybe I will drop off the remaining Tramadol at their house to make them numb and ease the pain…

M43BC

4582 Sunland Place, Burnaby paid 1.30 ass 1.35

Oct 15:$1,399,000
Jun 7: $1,380,000
Change – 19000.00 -1%

4582 Sunland Place, Burnaby

May 8:$1,480,000
Nov 17: $1,199,000
Change: – 281000.00 -19%

https://www.zolo.ca/index.php?sarea=4582%20Sunland%20Place,%20Burnaby&ptype_condo=1&ptype_house=1&filter=1

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzV0ZFOA==

#156 Ronaldo on 11.18.17 at 11:36 am

#114 Zaalim

You may want to start here. Assuming your in BC. Sounds like you have the right qualifications.

https://www.gofishbc.com/About-Us.aspx

#157 Gravy Train on 11.18.17 at 11:44 am

#114 Zaalim on 11.18.17 at 1:14 am
“If anyone has other career paths/suggestions in ANY field, let me know! I hope Garth can do a post about this for all his moister readers lol.”

One of the best books on job search and career changing is What Color is Your Parachute? by Dick Bolles. Get the latest (2018) edition. It’s especially good at helping young people figure out their passion! Don’t skip any chapters!

Here’s his Web site: http://www.jobhuntersbible.com.

#158 Bonhomme Carnaval on 11.18.17 at 11:52 am

Unaffordable real estate, poor career prospects, and precarious employment are the everyday reality for most of the world.

Only in Canada do people believe it’s ‘their right’ to 5,000 sq. ft. SFH, two luxury SUVs, fat guaranteed incomes, two vacations a year, cottages, DB pensions, etc.

There’s more to life dear blog dawgs!

Thanks Garth, one of the most uplifting post since the forevah!

#159 Rainclouds on 11.18.17 at 12:32 pm

Vancouver Median family income doesn’t reach the average so the theory you will make less in Halifax/Montreal/ is factually incorrect.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

If you are talking Unemployment rates yes Van is lower but presumably those jobs pay less?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/october+unemployment+rates+canadian+city/15473978/story.html

Deductive reasoning would suggest Your costs will be considerably less if you flee the Lower Mainland /Island or TO /Golden horseshoe.

Or simply wait……….

#160 chopstix on 11.18.17 at 12:33 pm

”Vancouver condo rush sparks local and foreign flipping frenzy”…this city is so f…ked….
https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN1DG2W2-OCABS

#161 chopstix on 11.18.17 at 12:38 pm

maybe the silver lining from all this RE unaffordability and $$$ craziness will be more rapid growth of those smaller areas/cities/towns that we’d never think of living in vs only Toronto or Vancouver/Victoria….many of us would love to leave Toronto and Vancouver, but can’t afford to due to not having as many job opportunities.

#162 Ronaldo on 11.18.17 at 12:46 pm

#147 Crossbordershopper

Diversification yes, but in something that young people need right now. Diversifying their skills. This is what they are going to have to do to get along in this world going forward. I personally have had three major careers in my working life. I was able to transfer skills that I’d obtained in one career to the other careers even thought the work I was doing in each area were unrelated. Everyone has those skills whether learned or natural. Sometimes it can be a bit scary when you get into work that may be a bit over your head but you persevere and in time things seem to work out. Everyone has built in skills. It’s just a matter of discovering these and unleashing them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danschawbel/2014/01/10/are-you-ready-for-the-age-of-career-diversification/#4a8316d654ca

#163 AGuyInVancouver on 11.18.17 at 1:03 pm

#8 Mark on 11.17.17 at 6:38 pm
So how does this cycle get broken? The boomers are overloaded with RE exposure, so as the RE market crashes (even more than it has already in the post-2013 peak era), many of them will have to work even longer than they currently anticipated…
_ _ _
There will never be big enough real estate crash to wipe out the insane increases in most boomers housing equity. Just look For Those About to Flop’s posts: sure, there are price decreases but the houses are still going for outrageous prices, most boomers selling in the GTA or Vancouver will still make out like bandits.

Moving to a smaller centre is fine in theory, but they’re short on the kind of jobs people want today. Why is Amazon adding another 1,000 people to their office in Vancouver but not opening one somewhere like Nanaimo?

#164 dosouth on 11.18.17 at 1:16 pm

Poor Millenial’s. Having to work in a world where you have to get a better education than posting on Instagram, Snapchat, YT and playing Call of Duty.

Would like to feel their pain but we all had enough of our own growing up. Hey that’s an idea…grow up and earn your right to complain. Most Boomers didn’t have a basement they could keep on running back to.

#165 TurnerNation on 11.18.17 at 1:36 pm

#21 Fran Deck Jr. – yes and Toronto downtown sidewalks stink of open sewers and WEED. Such grossness.

Police exist to capture more revenue from tax slaves and to enjoy the spoils of supporting The Party. A total money machine and not much changes; they just shake down the gangs for a cut of the cash/drug IMO. Certain areas of the city are in my opinion no-go areas; it’s happening now.

Dating? Don’t even think about it. Widely known that people use online apps for validation not vindication.

The two best people I’ve met and dated including now spent 1/2 their lives and grew up in another country!!! overseas. They were not subject to Kanadian mind programing.

M41ON

#166 Cdn Mom on 11.18.17 at 1:37 pm

I love Toronto, loved living there, but let’s be real. There is no clean air in Toronto. Toronto smells like the back end of a Greyhound bus.

I don’t understand this belief that life is terrible in X or Y location. Each location has its good and bad, it’s just a matter of your priorities at that stage of life. I’ve lived rural, semi-rural, suburban, and downtown…in numerous towns and cities. I’ve enjoyed all of them except suburban Vancouver. Far too expensive to raise two babies on a single income.

#167 TurnerNation on 11.18.17 at 1:39 pm

#4 John Dough are you posting from Toronto’s new safe injection site? How is it? Only possible explanation.

#168 SimplyPut7 on 11.18.17 at 1:43 pm

Thank you for finally admitting people who don’t already own a house, can’t easily get into the housing market in the GTA, even if all they wanted was the concrete box on the 60th floor, in the building with the elevators that don’t work half the time and the maintenance fees of $500 a month or more, for amenities, not even the worst fly-by-night gym would offer.

The high prices also affect people who are already in the market and want to move into a bigger place. Trying to go from a small house into a slightly bigger house means an extra 400k to 800k added to your mortgage in some parts of the GTA. And considering prices in the city do not reflect the income of the people who own the homes, the mortgage would not be approved by the big banks, especially after B-20 comes into effect.

#169 conan on 11.18.17 at 1:49 pm

The economy has serious structural problems. You can not have generation or two living in their Parent’s basements. No wonder we are passing the leadership torch to women. Men blew it. Wars, BS, and debt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mILsx_c-vXw

#170 Livwithkids on 11.18.17 at 1:52 pm

In talks with 2 adult kids to build together on same lot,
Designed to have 3 separate housing units (sound proofed well) with a common area shop.
All on title, written exit plan if one party wants out.
Cheaper, smaller mortgages for the kids, no need for bsmt suite rentals with annoying strangers and money left over for investing.
Family as neighbors instead of strangers, yes we like each other and have lived together in smaller settings, just planning it in a larger & long term setting.

Are we crazy Garth?

Are

#171 Kat on 11.18.17 at 2:10 pm

Wow butterfly your lack of appreciation for your parents allowing you to live with them shines on through. $700 to share a kitchen ? How about all the wear and tear on the house and utilities that you use as well as wi fi etc.Pretty sure you don’t stay in your bedroom all the time. I bet they also babysit for free. As to being embarrassed to be told to wash up as an adult who lived with a parent for a year I cannot believe you need to be told. Show your gratitude by keeping their house clean and paying for groceries, mowing the lawn and shoveling the drive without being told or having to be hinted at. I hope my kids are not as ungrateful as you as I would be giving them the boot. Your parents sound like saints to keep your ungrateful butts around.

#172 TRT on 11.18.17 at 2:11 pm

YVR RE at record levels again!!

Told you guys to buy 8 years ago. And it will go higher. Why? Cant post here for threat of deletion.

#173 akashic record on 11.18.17 at 2:13 pm

#132 crowdedelevatorfartz on 11.18.17 at 9:00 am

@#104 Akashic Record
“It is the sacred landscape and the sacred teachings of the invisible Natives of this land that makes you realize how truly blessed you are that you can walk here is the sun raise and in the sunset….”

+++++

Found some mushrooms did we?

—-

Flipping channels.

#174 Ronaldo on 11.18.17 at 2:30 pm

#159 chopstix on 11.18.17 at 12:38 pm

maybe the silver lining from all this RE unaffordability and $$$ craziness will be more rapid growth of those smaller areas/cities/towns that we’d never think of living in vs only Toronto or Vancouver/Victoria….many of us would love to leave Toronto and Vancouver, but can’t afford to due to not having as many job opportunities.
————————————————————
And more sadder is the fact that many more who have gotten into and are about to get into the condo owning craze will find themselves in the same situation. Not able to afford to sell and trapped in a box in the sky worth much less than the mortgage they are paying on. Sure to be an increase in relationship and marriage breakups. These scenarios have all played out in the past for those that remember the 70s, 80,s and 90’s real estate bubbles. This is one of the most speculative bubbles that I have ever witnessed in my 70 plus years on this earth. How can this be good for our economy going forward when the majority of the working population are so far indebted that they have no discretionary income to keep this pyramid scheme going? The government regulators and bankers have done a great job of entrapping a lot of young people. What a bloody gong show. Had to get it off my chest.

#175 Vampire studies GMST on 11.18.17 at 2:40 pm

101 Mike and 113 Millenial – nothing you have said refutes the information dolce vita has provided and the conclusion DV has reached.

You will also note the drop in the numbers of the higher
brackets for the 60 to 64 cohort. Apparently many are leaving the work force or working less.

#176 Lacho on 11.18.17 at 2:46 pm

Great piece. Forced migration and massive wealth transfers are actually real things; and they manifest in many forms.

Noah built an ark. Wow, he had it rough. All we have to do is change our scenery a bit to diminish much of the “problem”. That’s exactly what we are doing. By the way; the quality of life in the 604 is almost insufferable. It’s a daily assault on every conceivable front, and occasionally new fronts are invented as fresh points of assault. Everyone’s cash-broke, everyone’s stressed, everyone’s greedy, everyone’s fixated on RE, and everyone’s pointing fingers. You can feel it in the air.

#177 Shawn on 11.18.17 at 2:59 pm

I think we see price declines of an average of 5% per year for the next 5 years.

Last year here in Niagara we saw the same GTA style bidding wars and unconditional sales within 1 week of listing. This year the polar opposite. Very little is moving – especially in the $800K+ segment of the market. Most listing in this price segment are stale. Prices remain stubbornly high however – especially on new builds which seem to be everywhere.

1000+ homes are under construction in Niagara Falls alone. New subdivisions are everywhere. St Catharines, Welland, Fonthill, etc. Most are high end $500K+ homes.

The population of the Niagara Region has been stagnant for a decade. Some cities are showing declining population (i.e. Port Colborne, Fort Erie). I don’t know who is going to live in these new homes.

#178 akashic record on 11.18.17 at 3:07 pm

#168 Livwithkids on 11.18.17 at 1:52 pm

In talks with 2 adult kids to build together on same lot,
Designed to have 3 separate housing units (sound proofed well) with a common area shop.
All on title, written exit plan if one party wants out.
Cheaper, smaller mortgages for the kids, no need for bsmt suite rentals with annoying strangers and money left over for investing.
Family as neighbors instead of strangers, yes we like each other and have lived together in smaller settings, just planning it in a larger & long term setting.

Are we crazy Garth?

—-

It will drive the zoning department crazy of the zoning is “Single family home”.

It is not meant to means accommodate multi-generations under the same roof, adults kids in separate living areas.

6000 SQF house for a couple on same lot is perfectly OK, though.

#179 DON on 11.18.17 at 3:25 pm

#43 Debtslavecreator on 11.17.17 at 7:44 pm

Thank you Garth
In your opinion what is your top 2 areas to buy in within 1 hour of the west end of Toronto ?
I agree renting is so much smarter

FYI I know on Bank will start B20 on Dec 10
Also the majority of retail staff at a bank I know of are in complete panic as extreme sales targets are being kept the same for credit exposed positions despite b20
Banks are reducing and making it very hard to make a bonus and to keep a job
They are setting up the staff to resign and or be fired within 6-12 months
Work conditions including at CUs are getting so bad
Fear , anxiety and being treated with contempt is the norm for most even those with a long record of good performance
I have never seen it so bad
This creates a dangerous work environment in retail banks as many of their staff are in massive debt
Thankfully I’m not
*******************

Thank you for sharing what is happening behind closed doors. Exactly the strategy big consulting companies due to their staff. A friend just went for his year end review to get his bonus – he got his walking papers instead (out of the blue). I asked him if he got the bonus – NOPE! But he did get some hush money.

curious to see retail numbers pre and post Christmas. Houses are being used by some as piggy banks.

Big consulting companies and banks are the first to let go as they have a birds eye view on the finances and prospects of their clients.

#180 Gracie on 11.18.17 at 6:06 pm

In reply to #25

My son also wants to move to Europe after graduation. We are very thankful to still have the UK passport and have additional opportunities.

My son attends a mini school for smart kids in Vancouver. Many of the students are Asian and speak in Chinese when classes are not being conducted. It is like being a minority in your own country. I have nothing against any nationality, but I would like to be able to speak English in Canada.

We also plan to leave the country.

#181 NEVER GIVE UP on 11.18.17 at 6:19 pm

The foreign property buyer protectors have got it wrong all this time including our beloved Blog owner.

This is how we have been shafted and are transferring all our wealth to boomers.

Poor millennials, You have been sucked in all along with the false story about supply.

You should be fighting for a GVRD wide empty homes tax and huge taxes on speculators otherwise our city will eventually belong to only the rich.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/academic-takes-on-vancouvers-housing-supply-myth/article37015584/

#182 45north on 11.18.17 at 10:17 pm

Washed Out Lawyer: Which side of the 4th Meridian would you recommend? Sask or Alta?

the Dominion Land Survey is mostly unknown east of Manitoba but in the west it’s the way land is described:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Land_Survey

Andrew Woburn: In 1979 I realized that I could earn $10-15K a year more in Toronto, but by the time I paid the tax on the difference and then endured the high cost of living it was about a wash. Even in those days commuting was brutal so what was the point? Instead of scrimping for thirty years so I could retire in BC, I just moved there.

In 1972, I got a job at U of T, 215 Huron Street. I took the bus up to Warden Station and then the Bloor Line to St George, transferred to the University Line and then south to Queen’s Park. If the street car was right there I’d get on it but mostly I walked briskly to Huron Street. Total time was 1 hour 35 minutes. I mean I did a full-on sprint from the bus to the train platform. Most of the people in the office, got there by car from distant places like Newmarket or even further. There were some who lived downtown who looked on the commuters with amusement. In 1973, I got a job at Statistics Canada, in Ottawa. I took the number 6 bus to Tunney’s Pasture. Total time was 35 minutes. Moving to Ottawa saved me 2 hours a day, commute time. I mean 2 hours a day for 40 years.

#183 45north on 11.18.17 at 10:19 pm

steerage steward: Have always helped out in the building, eg get groceries for older tenants when they need it, shovel snow, vacuum the halls, etc. This takes a few mins a week and makes you more then just a guy that shoves a cheque under a door every month.

yes it does

#184 Where's The Money Guido? on 11.19.17 at 1:16 am

Re; #112 Where’s The Money Guido? on 11.18.17 at 12:36 am

Re: #63 Lost…but not leased on 11.17.17 at 8:17 pm
“””Will YOU get off your recliner to confront the elephant in the room.
Yeah, thought so; it cuts into beer guzzling, hockey and babe oogling.””””
+++++++++
Lost, that wasn’t meant directly at you, just wanted to put it out, not directing at anyone in particular. Hope I didn’t offend and if I did, so sorry..

#185 DON on 11.19.17 at 12:58 pm

#172 TRT on 11.18.17 at 2:11 pm

YVR RE at record levels again!!

Told you guys to buy 8 years ago. And it will go higher. Why? Cant post here for threat of deletion.
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Reading real estate articles and understanding the spin is a hard piece of reality. Future investment? Foreigners going to Seattle, more house for 2 – 3Million – ones with pools, multiple rooms, guest rooms, pool house, tennis and basket ball court, movie theater etc.

People need to start reading more than one news source.

#186 Old Bird on 11.19.17 at 4:13 pm

Flop…

I was sure you posted about 14069 28th Avenue, Surrey today if not recently, but I can’t find it now. Could you please direct me to the post…

Thanks!