The pot

Welcome to the lobster pot. Here no lid is required. Ambitious crustaceans are dragged down when they try to rise up by the ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ lobsters. So everyone ends up as dinner.

Yesterday dentist June spoke out about the ‘divide-and-conquer’ strategy being used by Ottawa as it readies a giant tax hammer on small business. It’s working. By casting the self-employed as tax cheats, profiting at the expenses of employees, the feds have demonized two million self-employed little lobsters, 70% of whom earn less than $200,000 and account for 50% of all jobs. What have been perfectly legal and accepted accounting practices for decades are now called ‘loopholes.’ The meme has spread like a virus, that incorporated people are thieves.

Five days ago doctors were startled that the Canadian Nurses Association sided with T2. Said the nurses: “We support the aim to achieve federal tax policy that treats all sources of income similarly and equitably, based on principles of social justice.” In other words, the nurse lobsters want the doctor lobsters to be salaried just like them.

Fair’s fair, right?

Well, maybe not always. If everyone worked similarly, was roughly equal in ability and training, and faced the same risks, that might be okay. But Maxim thinks not.

In this blog’s final installment (for this week) on this thorny but pivotal topic, here are the thoughts of a doc blog dog. As you read it, ask simple questions: what’s our federal government trying to accomplish? Is this war demonizing the self-employed plus incorporated professionals like IT dudes, docs and donut franchise owners accomplishing anything? And do you really want to ever visit a pissed-off proctologist?

Well, here’s M. For the record.

Love your blog and follow it daily, including reading the comment section… so I guess I’m writing and hoping that you’ll publish these comments to enlighten some of the readers who just don’t get it. I’d like to address the topic of doctor-specific business risk, especially in light of the Canadian Nurses Association public stance on supporting the tax changes. (Way to go Trudeau and nurses, to divide up the country).

Here are some real-life examples for those readers who asked:

A doctor sees a patient in the hospital and enters medical orders for the nurses and other healthcare staff to follow (e.g. drug prescription, blood work, imaging tests, protocols, etc.). The nurse on duty forgets to administer the drug, or worse, overdoses the patient. The doctor then spends the rest of the night, even the whole week, trying to rectifying this life threatening mistake. Meanwhile, the salaried nurse goes home to sleep at the end of her shift.

And the spouse of the doctor is fuming because s/he has become a single parent for the week as the partner is too busy looking after the sick patient to look after the kids.

A doctor sees a patient who does not have health coverage (e.g. out-of-country traveler, illegal alien, fraudulent or expired provincial coverage). The doctor doesn’t get paid, and you’ll be surprised how often this happens. Meanwhile, the salaried nurse and secretary will still get paid. They’ll even accumulate vacation days.

A doctor gets sick and can’t see patients. Not only will no revenue come in, they have to scramble to arrange coverage, all the while paying the secretary to rearrange and rebook all the patients. Meanwhile, the salaried staff just has to pick up the phone, call in sick, and get paid for lying in bed. And that’s assuming they weren’t playing hookie.

For doctors who are paid fee for service, if you are a specialist for example, you might see a follow-up patient in 15 min and a new patient in 30 min. New grads often take double that time. But when a doctor encounters a complicated case (which happens every week), they have to spend extra time, often the entire evening that night and several days thereafter, researching medical journals, knowledge bases, consulting colleagues, ordering labs, etc. This is all unpaid work. Meanwhile, imagine if a doctor was paid a salary like a nurse. Would tax payers like to pay doctors time-and-a-half for their overtime?

When there a computer problem, the salaried staff calls their IT department, but will be paid while they wait for the problem to be resolved. A doctor who owns their own clinic, will be unable to function if they can’t access their EMR (electronic medical records) to retrieve lab results, etc. The doctor, the business owner, becomes the IT department. Every minute of outage is an extra minute of unpaid stressful work. The nurse and secretary goes home at the end of their shift.

Uh-oh… six months after the incident above where the nurse overdosed a patient, the patient dies from complications. The family sues the hospital and the doctor. The doctor now has a huge administrative burden of documenting the incident, talking to lawyers, and possibly going to court. And losing the case. (Which is why malpractice insurance is so expensive). Meanwhile, what will happen to the nurse? A reprimand on their file?

These are just a small sample of doctor specific risks. As a small business owner myself, I haven’t even talked about the scenarios when staff calls in sick, the landlords change their lease terms, employees quit on you, your store front (or office) encounters theft, vandalism, fires, floods. Or governments changing legislation, negatively impacting your business…

The point then, is that a dollar earned by a business is far less than a dollar earned by a salaried employee with benefits. A small business owner comes with significantly more risk and stress. More often than not, s/has to work 25-50% more hours for an equivalent salaried position.

Only the naïve and the ignorant will think this won’t have ramifications.

BTW, people forget that the provincial governments ENCOURAGED doctors to incorporate for all the legal tax benefits, in return for doctors accepting lower fees. Maybe the federal government will get more in tax revenue, but be prepared for higher provincial medical costs when doctors demand for fair compensation of risks, expenses, and ‘overtime’. I believe the nurses to be flat out wrong.

Maxim

345 comments ↓

#1 Royal City Dweller on 09.11.17 at 5:50 pm

Furst! Yet again!

#2 Vanessa on 09.11.17 at 5:52 pm

Not a nurse but am frontline staff and do I work with many nurses and they tell me (or have ranted on facebook) that CNA did not consult them at all.

I am disappointed that CNA did this. Please do not blame the majority of nurses for this.

I completely agree that doctors should be paid more than I am. Their assumption of risk is much more than mine.

#3 Chris on 09.11.17 at 5:58 pm

number 1!

#4 NoOneOfConsequence on 09.11.17 at 5:59 pm

Great Letter Maxim!

Too bad you are just another rich guy defending his richness, while screwing me over by not paying your fair share.

Your words mean nothing.
Cry me a river.

Uh oh…I better get back to looking like I am working, boss is coming.

#5 Bill Redlam on 09.11.17 at 6:00 pm

Down is the new up.

#6 TheSpangler on 09.11.17 at 6:02 pm

They want fair?!? Eliminate the PRE make all real estate taxable!

#7 Anonymous on 09.11.17 at 6:03 pm

My wife is a MD and I fully agree with this.

#8 Frank on 09.11.17 at 6:04 pm

It’s crabs in a bucket.

#9 Renter's Remorse on 09.11.17 at 6:06 pm

This is getting downright embarrassing! If I were a doctor I would feel horribly betrayed by the nursing association. I’m also starting to feel a little guilty for those times I slacked off at work (as a pampered, salaried employee).

#10 Deb on 09.11.17 at 6:06 pm

“Only the naïve and the ignorant will think this won’t have ramifications.”

Well written Maxim – but for those who still don’t agree – talk to small business owners. They are also being hit with carbon taxes (AB), insurance increases, property tax increases, etc.

#11 I'm stupid on 09.11.17 at 6:08 pm

Garth your argument is falling on deaf ears. Everyone likes to count how much money others have but now one counts the amount of work it takes to make it. Trudeau or Wild Bill don’t care, they’re both trust fund babies. They never needed to put in a hard days work in their lives. We are the ones who have worked our asses off giving up our youth, freedom and postponing life just to change the circumstances to which we were born but we’re seen as scum by our ruling overlords.

How does anyone think this will not create price increases in all sectors? The only winners will be government coffers.

#12 I'm stupid on 09.11.17 at 6:09 pm

Garth your argument is falling on deaf ears. Everyone likes to count how much money others have but now one counts the amount of work it takes to make it. Trudeau or Wild Bill don’t care, they’re both trust fund babies. They never needed to put in a hard days work in their lives. We are the ones who have worked our asses off giving up our youth, freedom and postponing life just to change the circumstances to which we were born but we’re seen as scum by our ruling overlords.

How does anyone think this will not create price increases in all sectors? The only winners will be government coffers.

#13 Nanalan on 09.11.17 at 6:10 pm

First

#14 Argo on 09.11.17 at 6:11 pm

There really shouldn’t be much more time spent mulling over this topic. Doctor’s are invaluable to society, and I don’t think anyone argues that — but so are nurses, police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and teachers. The anecdotal stories of ‘poor’ doctors and dentists are becoming ridiculous. It’s particularly difficult to have sympathy for people who, on the whole, make $100k more than most people; especially other essential service providers.

Where is it written that doctors should be overworked and rightly compensated? Doctors in Sweden, France, and Great Britain don’t make nearly as much as Canadian doctors. The only reason Canadian doctor’s believe they are entitled to high pay is because of our proximity to the US, a country whose healthcare system is driven by profit and greed. It only takes minor attention to the news to understand that the American system is broken and ridiculously expensive. If our doctors want to pack up and head south it says more about a commitment to their own income than that of their chosen altruistic profession.

Perhaps instead of having 50 doctors working 70 hours a week and bringing in $200k, there could be 100 doctors working 40 hours a week bringing in $100k… who could argue with that scenario?

#15 The real Kip on 09.11.17 at 6:14 pm

Oh boy, here we go with the poor little rich guy story again.

#16 Andrewski on 09.11.17 at 6:15 pm

Try as you may to elucidate the crap that the Feds are stirring up Garth, there are always going to be citizens who just do not understand, whether it is because of their confirmation bias or they feel they got the short end of the stick in life, so it’s easier to just bash (who hey think are) the rich. Clueless I say.

#17 Lost...but not leased on 09.11.17 at 6:15 pm

But but but….who said life was fair?

The case/s laid out above make valid points.

Is T2 even aware of these..or simply divide and conquer mode, dam the consequences.

I don’t begrudge these alleged perks…one has to have a carrot in any profession to attract people.

One thing I will add is the apparent stats that a persons biggest cost to the health care system is their last 2 years of life. From personal experience that is an eye opener…..aka beware !!!!

Not sure why the Nurses cheer on MD bashing…but then again they are historically one of the more militant public sector unions.

#18 Smartalox on 09.11.17 at 6:17 pm

Maxim,

The scenario that you described is that of a doctor that is obviously trying very hard to keep a lid on costs. Not having an IT service on standby, in the event of a problem? So that the doctor has to make repairs themselves? That’s just bad business.

The proposed tax changes relate to monies that are retained in the corporation, instead of re-invested in the business. The ‘profits’ of the business, if you will. Having an IT service available, and paying for repairs are legitimate business expenses, that should be paid out of operating income, pre-tax.

Not incurring that expense, then losing valuable specialist working hours trying to fix something that you’re not specialized in? That’s just dumb.

Not to mention that by not hiring a 3rd party professional to do the job, you’re negating the argument that private corporation earners stimulate the greater economy by creating jobs.

Having to take time to compile records in the (rare) event that the family of a patient that was treated six months earlier? That’s bad practice. If you’re not taking relevant, legible notes in the moment, how are you supposed to clearly remember the decisions that you made, and your reasons for making them six months after the fact? Of course you’re going to lose the lawsuit, and of course your malpractice insurance premiums are going to reflect that.

In this case, I believe that you are confusing ‘risk’ – the financial liabilities that you take on obtaining training in your field of interest, and in opening and maintaining a practice, with ‘risk’ – the potential for harm that you place yourself and your patients in based on how you conduct that business.

While I believe that business owners should be entitled to SOME tax relief to compensate them for the risk that they take on, in order to establish and maintain their businesses, and I do acknowledge that spouses and families share that risk as well, I don’t agree that taking such risks earns them the right to avoid taxes in perpetuity. Maybe there should be limits on how long profits can be sheltered, or annual limits on deferred taxes, like RRSPs, or spousal sharing, like splitting of pension incomes.

The other risk I mentioned is unacceptable, particularly if those risks are increased by actions taken to minimize costs to the stakeholder(s) of a private corporation.

Sick days, overhead costs (paying a secretary despite not earning income), deadbeat clients, are all facts of life for any business, and are costs that are to be reflected in how services are priced. Now, to be fair, most MDs prices are ‘fixed’ by the provincial health authorities for core services such as treating patients.

In that case, you may consider joining other doctors to help spread around and defray overhead costs associated with your business (office rental, equipment, staffing, services, etc.), if you feel like it will put more money in your pocket.

#19 NoName on 09.11.17 at 6:18 pm

Dear doctor/s welcome to my world, of under paid, over worked, over taxed working stiff…

#20 This is ridiculous on 09.11.17 at 6:18 pm

Sorry, Garth, but this is ridiculous. These tax measures do not at all effectively result in doctors and such becoming salaried. The way they generate revenues remains the same, it is merely the manner in which taxes are calculated that makes a change. There is nothing there that starts to make doctors like nurses in how they are being compensated, this is frankly ridiculous. I believe i have a right to speak out in defense of the measures, since I have been a long-term entrepreneur myself and am in the top 1% of income earners, in fact far beyond that. Yet, I too for a long time have been disturbed by the unfairnes of many of the tax measures that now hopefully will be undone. Sure, they may be too broad, and in that sense deserve more scrutiny, but overall they are a step in the right direction to a more fair society.

#21 Mike on 09.11.17 at 6:19 pm

.
Garth, me and my spouse, both work 40+hrs each in Fortune 500 billion dollar+ revenue private companies where layoffs happen anytime. Zero job security. Last one at my place was last month.

Kids at daycare.

We get salary $200k+ as family, and we pay more tax than $400k+ doctor friend who pay stay home spouse and Univ going kids $40,000 paycheck each. NONE of them do nothing for business(stand alone doctor). Doctor himself say that was unfair, but he use these tricks because he can. I dont blame him.

Unlike the Jetta driving Dentist you mentioned, they own 2 mercedes and 1 ferrari in a 3500+sqft house. Pay lower taxes than us Honda drivers who drop kids at daycare.

I dont say we make less. Why do we pay more taxes than them, while we make less? All those 35%, 45% tax brackets are for drama, nothing more.

That is why T2 got my vote, and will get again. Employees also got risky jobs, sacrificing spouses, and what not!!

#22 Mattl on 09.11.17 at 6:19 pm

Yes, the doctor is going to work more, longer harder hours then the secretary or nurse. He also has a job that is more challenging then the guy that cleans the toilets. In exchange for this he recieves significantly higher compensation. This is his reward.

In my business I work significantly more then those below me, spend 70 nights a year on the road, miss my daughters events, etc. Lots of stress and we roll over every 5-10 years. I never considered that I was entitled to better tax breaks then the lower paid folks in my office, always figured my significant difference in pay was the reward.

#23 Larry from ON on 09.11.17 at 6:19 pm

The other risk in all of this, as I believe was posted here a few weeks ago, is that physicians choose to up and leave for a less burdensome place to work, likely south of the 49th. Wasn’t it info from Nova Scotia where there was an informal poll of doctors?

It’s been interesting to watch the Loonie strengthen from (USDCAD) 1.38 to 1.21 given the potential for NAFTA to be torn up, tax policy that makes us ‘more equal’ than we truly are, and oil prices going nowhere quickly. Granted jobs data has been decent this year, though the latest report showed a loss of 88k full-time jobs and a gain of 110k part-time.

Beware of the GTA housing bull-trap if buyers seem to return to the market, won’t last. Have only been able to steer my sister away from jumping in at the top. Elsewhere the message has fallen on deaf ears. C’est la vie.

#24 harold on 09.11.17 at 6:20 pm

A lot of BS from the Doctor. Probably making well over $300K, bills the government for fees and gets paid no questions asked, even when the claim is for working 20 hours per day for 365 days a year! I have witnessed a radiologist high on drugs from overnight partying puncture the bile duct of a patient who then had to suffer with his family for the few remaining months of his life. No lawsuit as the radiologist has the best legal team defending him at taxpayers expense. Give me a break.

#25 president chester cheeto on 09.11.17 at 6:21 pm

stop moaning. finally someone wants minimize tax loopholes, double dipping

#26 Anonymous on 09.11.17 at 6:22 pm

The real reason nurses agree with the tax changes is simply they envy doctors and are jealous that they couldn’t become one.

#27 sentry on 09.11.17 at 6:22 pm

Growing up in 1960’s Canada,it was an accepted reality that Government workers made a bit less,but had the guaranteed job with the guaranteed pension,a good trade off for the security.And the business owner who took on massive risk,worked many more hours and created employment for many was given a small break by Revenue Canada for their trouble.Now,for the sake of votes to further this road to social engineering,the risk takers have been put out there as the latest scapegoat.Don’t drive out the spirit of the entrepreneur to placate the anger of the millennial masses.Don’t punish the successful,emulate them…..Soar with the eagles,don’t graze with the sheep.True,it’s a much tougher world now….but that means you have to work harder,not melt into a puddle and bleat for a hug.

#28 Your Local Farmer on 09.11.17 at 6:22 pm

I’m your local Canadian farmer who earns tar sands royalties from my land via Crown, and I do not vote for a 90c Loonie.

My sales of wheat and dairy have fallen in the past 30 days because of the higher Loonie. My revenyues in Canadian dollars are less.

I vote for a 55c loonie to support your local Canadian farmer.

#29 See on 09.11.17 at 6:23 pm

Definitely looking forward to the outcome of this cluster……!!!

#30 Reddit0r_Anonymous on 09.11.17 at 6:25 pm

Nice title

#31 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm

With due respect, Garth, I challenge you, and all the entitled princesses complaining here in the comments to listen to Bill Morneau on the subject today:

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-september-11-2017-1.4281425/a-system-that-works-for-all-canadians-finance-minister-bill-morneau-defends-tax-plan-1.4281465

Blows

Your

Argument

Away

!

#32 Joe Schmoe on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm

According to some nurse friends the lady who said the CNA suports the changes may be asked to step down. Had no authority to make that statement.

People are shooting their mouths off about this issue with very little understanding.

Nurses own businesses and their spouses are tradespeople/business owners as well.

#33 The Great Gazoo on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm

Maxim, thanks for taking the time to share your perspective. I have a much better understanding of the challenges that Docs face.

“A doctor sees a patient who does not have health coverage (e.g. out-of-country traveler, illegal alien, fraudulent or expired provincial coverage). The doctor doesn’t get paid, and you’ll be surprised how often this happens.”

This is unacceptable to me that Docs should be left holding the bag for the failure of a system that is the responsibility of the government. This needs to change and I hope your association forces the issue.

I can’t imagine any Canadian thinking this should be the responsibility of Docs. Would a contractor work for someone who is not reasonably expected to pay? I think not. The Doc is effectively “forced” to do the work for free since it is a health matter and in some cases life and death.

#34 JustMe on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm

Taxes Brought Down The Roman Empire, And They’ll Do The Same To America (and Canada eh?)

The tax ‘reforms’ of Emperor Diocletian in the 3rd century were so rigid and unwavering that many people were driven to starvation and bankruptcy. By the 4th century, the Roman economy and tax structure were so dismal that many farmers abandoned their lands in order to receive public entitlements. For a time, according to historian Joseph Tainter, “those who lived off the treasury were more numerous than those paying into it.”

Sound familiar?

In the economic decline of any civilization, political elites routinely call on a very limited playbook: more debt, more regulation, more restriction on freedoms, more debasement of the currency, more taxation, and more insidious enforcement.

http://www.businessinsider.com/all-transactions-to-be-conducted-in-the-presence-of-a-tax-collector-2012-4

#35 NoToTax on 09.11.17 at 6:27 pm

Nobody but a fool can say that this tax is logical. In the 50’s and 60’s doctors were the highest earning group in society. (at least where I looked) It seemed fair. They had education and saved lives, where my dad fixed TV’s. Doctors today still have education and save lives and have to know more today. They deserve every cent they earn and I for one don’t like what the government is doing to them, farmers,small businesses and others.
It’s all to do with Trudeau constantly spending our money. Oh no,… I meant Trudeau overspending our money.

#36 Stone on 09.11.17 at 6:28 pm

Life is not static, whether you’re self employed or a salaried employee. Change happens, you adapt. Things change again, you adapt. Life hits you with more changes, you adapt. Again and again. That’s how life is.

The argument why doctors and the self employed think they are special is weak. The rest of us are not sub-human. All I hear is how this guy thinks he’s so at a disadvantage, same as June. Choices buddy. We all make them and have no choice but to live by them. You choose to do the profession you do. You also need to understand that nothing is permanent. I think more people need to understand the budhist way that teaches how things are ever changing. Trying to create permanence is an artificial construct which is not real. If that was the case, we’d all still be living in caves and hunting with spears.

I don’t see anywhere anyone saying you need to continue the “job” you chose. You can choose to go down a different path. The world can be your oyster if you choose that. Unfortunately, most people don’t appear to have that clarity of mind after so many years of being brainwashed in our schooling system. The same schooling system that tells you that once you graduate, you’re entitled to so many benefits. Strange how those same teachers are not reaching for those same benefits and instead remain gouvernment employees. That’s quite telling about the lies they provide to their students and unrealitic expectations they set.

Once again, you are not special and no one will fall for those crocodile tears. Time to come out of you glass bubble and live in the real world. I’ve run to businesses in my life and also had staff up to 14 people. I agree it can be challenging but I also chose to move on and do other things with my life and career. For all of it, it was my choice and I always accept the consequence, good or bad. I never once played the tax system though so shame on those who do. Again, those who aren’t twisting the tax code have nothing to be concerned. For the rest, you know who you are and that party’s coming to an end.

Can’t wait for this legislation to pass. I voted Liberal and so far, I’m ok with what they’ve done.

#37 Freedom35 on 09.11.17 at 6:28 pm

Freedom35 with firsities!!

#38 AB Boxster on 09.11.17 at 6:29 pm

Time to stop beating the proverbial ‘dead horse’ Garth.

Canadians in general are socialist dopes who are clueless when it comes to this issue.

As George Carlin put it:

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that”

The problem is that the boomers have brought up an entire generation who believe that the most important thing is fairness and equality.

Not equality of opportunity, which they all have.
Opportunity, that is far greater than about 99% of the rest of the people in the world.
But nope, that’s not good enough.
This generation is super-special after all.

What is really important to them is equality of outcome.

They all got participation ribbons in soccer, just for showing up.
And they all got nice medals, even if they were crap and finished last.
And they were all told that they were special, and could be whatever they wanted to when they grew up.

And then they went into the real world and found out , horror of horrors, that real life wasn’t not fair.

“It’s so unfair that life’s unfair”

That they could not graduate with B average and get into medical school.
That you could not make $100k in your first job.
That if you wanted to be a lesbian dance teacher, that you were not going to make a living salary.
That you could not graduate with a PolySci degree , and get a job working for Microsoft. ( or anywhere else for that matter).

So they turn to government to solve their problems.

They think that by screwing somone else this will somehow make their own lives better.
They have bought into the socialist nonsense that if their government spends more, and taxes more and more, that their life will be better.

Their government tells them that their lot in life is not their own fault, but is the fault of ‘others’, those who are doing obviously unfair things such at taking business and personal risk, or bettering themselves through further education or personal initiative.

I suspect the Liberal government will next be forcing these unfair rich folk to wear a yellow star so all can truly identify the social pariahs.

Your Liberal government.
‘Pitting Canadians against each other for decades, and proud of it.’

#39 Maybe on 09.11.17 at 6:31 pm

I just had a brilliant idea. Maybe we can do away with salaried employment and everyone can become an independent contractor. The government could keep the so called “loopholes” in place and then everything would be fair.
Going to go for a jog… gotta stay healthy now. Universal health care doesn’t work if there is no one to provide the care part.

#40 Looney Baloney on 09.11.17 at 6:31 pm

I’m voting ndp next time around, or whoever promises me the most free sh*t. The sooner we go full steam ahead, the sooner we’ll be over the cliff and the sooner we can start over. Go T2! Fair is fair. Equality for all. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar.

#41 Terrorelf on 09.11.17 at 6:34 pm

Thank you for all you’re doing, Garth, to counter all the lies emitting from Morneau and T2. Keep it coming!

#42 Ex-Cowtown on 09.11.17 at 6:34 pm

Excellent column. Reminds me of a former business colleague. Her father was a physician and loved the hard nasty complicated cases. They were interesting and challenging to him. But he never made a penny on them. The only time he made bank for his mortgage payments was when he said “Take two aspirin and call me in the morning”.

Luckily for us most doctors aren’t finance majors.

#43 Nurses compensation on 09.11.17 at 6:38 pm

The Canadian RN gets paid up to 2x as much as her counterpart in Germany for example.

Docs generally get paid less across Europe as well. The systems however WORK and waiting lists are completely unheard of.

Canadian Health Care needs a complete overhaul to be competitive again. Taxing the crap out of doctors is not the solution.

More Canadians will travel abroad and seek immediate medical care including surgeries and therapies outside of Canada because the Canadian system doesn’t WORK.

#44 Howard on 09.11.17 at 6:43 pm

#6 TheSpangler on 09.11.17 at 6:02 pm
They want fair?!? Eliminate the PRE make all real estate taxable!

————————————-

If our media weren’t completely utterly useless, some reporter somewhere would ask one of the Eau-bros (Trudeau/Morneau) why the 30% of Canadians who rent aren’t entitled to fairness. Homeowners can shelter their asset sale from the tax collectors but renters who decide to invest in other financial vehicles get no exemptions.

#45 AB Boxster on 09.11.17 at 6:44 pm

#6 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm
——————-
Taking anything from CBC is like getting your facts from Pravda.

The CBC hasn’t asked a tough intelligent question to a Liberal politician as they know that their funding would be cut as a result, and that Liberals politicians can only refer to their absurd talking points:

“Blaah , blah blah, fairness.”
“Blah, blah, blah, genre equity.”
“Blah. blah, blah, middle class”
“Blah, blah blah, first nations”
“Blah, blah blah, social license”
“Blah, blah, blah, LGBTQ EIEIO”
“Blah, blah ,blah climate change’

#46 Debtslavecreator on 09.11.17 at 6:44 pm

4/14 and others who mock those who are BFS
You embody all that is wrong with our ongoing political, social and, soon, economic collapse
This is what so called socialism does to a nation in its late stages. Socialism is a fraud – has never worked and will never work. It’s simple grade school math – you know exponents
The majority in my circle who support this criminal liberal regime are public sector workers and public sector retirees. The real beneficiaries of this massive scam are the retirees from government and related agencies who have no trouble arguing that the rich need to pay more.
Well the rich pay most of the taxes and some of the pay less as a % than they should but unlike Mr Morneau you cannot afford the offshore panama tax haven
No amount of money will help these socialist crooks
Estimated revenue from this scam is 250m but let’s be very kind and say they take in 2B / year
Who cares ? Interest alone amounts to about 63 B / year at record low rates and this will double within 5 years or so once the sovereign debt crisis hits our shores by 2021
Scream all you want you lefties

#47 Dolce Vita on 09.11.17 at 6:45 pm

Also having done the entrepreneurial thing successfully the idea is that you build the business up and to cash out you either sell it off to someone or take it public and sell chunks of it off, either way, you make your retirement money that way.

And if you can’t achieve that, well, then not so successful an entrepreneur.

Whining about long hours, research etc. is utter BS, part of the job of running your own show. Even employee managers do that.

Getting sick and not paid, well buy some private ST and LT disability insurance like I did.

Using the business to reinvest money is not an issue to me. All companies do that with their cash, called short term assets.

Keeping a Prof. Corp. alive after retirement for the sole purpose of dishing out money that has been invested is not a small business. It’s nothing more than an excuse to shelter investment gains at low tax rates for decades. The business should be wound down and proceeds disbursed to the owner upon retirement, end of story less their capital gain exemption.

Income sprinkling is utter BS and a scam to dodge the tax man in the short term. That should be eliminated. And if you want to make your wife, born and unborn children owners, then fine, they can get taxed too when you cash out or better yet, when the business is wound down upon retirement if it just a Prof Corp masquerading as a company, and fair enough.

If you want to make up the extra tax shortfall, just fire some people to make up the shortfall and that ought to get the Minister’s attention soon enough in job numbers if indeed so many are employed by these Ma and Pa Professional Corps. masquerading as the real thing.

#48 gb on 09.11.17 at 6:45 pm

Groan. This Physician posits that salaried workers (in this case Nurses) could care less what happens to patients…they just go home and sleep soundly. This is untrue and insulting.

The arrogance of that letter is revolting.

Just to say that I am all for tax incentives for risk takers but that letter was terrible and did no favours for those opposed to the tax changes.

#49 The Great Gazoo on 09.11.17 at 6:46 pm

Wow, this article is suggesting the BoC is expected to raise interest rates for the 3rd time in Oct, 17. I assume this has already been discussed here – I need to keep up.

“A Bloomberg survey of economists says Canada’s central bank will raise its benchmark interest rate for a third consecutive meeting in October.”

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/quick-hike-shows-data-speak-louder-than-words-canada-eco-watch

#50 Sitting on the toilet thinking on 09.11.17 at 6:46 pm

Welcome to the new reality. Mediocrity is they wave of the future. It’s ok if little Timmy sucks at soccer we won’t keep score anymore so he doesn’t feel bad about himself and everyone applaudes. I really wonder what’s going to happen when negotiations start with the medical association. I know if I was a member I would be asking for a kings ransom

#51 JustMe on 09.11.17 at 6:48 pm

Human (Tax) Farm: The Story of Your Enslavement

Human society can not be rationally understood until it is seen for what it is: a series of (tax) farms where human farmers own human livestock.

Under the Democratic model, direct slave ownership has been replaced by the Mafia model. The Mafia rarely owns businesses directly, but rather sends thugs around once a month to steal from the business “owners.”

You are now allowed to choose your own occupation, which raises your productivity – and thus the taxes you can pay to your masters.

Your few freedoms are preserved because they are profitable to your owners.

Text version:

http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/human-farm-the-story-of-your-enslavement/

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

#52 Guy in Calgary on 09.11.17 at 6:48 pm

I personally am on the fence with this but I will say this:

A self employed Doc Inc. and a contractor (IT, dental, DENTIST) are not on the same level. The doctor deserves the preferential tax treatment due to their years of education and their benefits to society. If a doctor makes $1M a year from working hard and saving lives, I am fine with that. They are enslaved to a pager, they have no time to enjoy it anyway.

Where I do have a problem is where individuals inc themselves for the tax benefit (realtors come to mind or dentists that do not have their own practice). They take risks sure, but well all do in certain ways and we all make choices. Politicians and entertainers will having holding companies. This is where the problem is.

Tax reform is not a bad thing, they are just doing this too quickly by painting anyone with an inc or ltd at the end of the name of their business with the same brush. It is hasty and reckless. T2 has lost my vote.

#53 act on 09.11.17 at 6:50 pm

I wish there was more pushback like this when the TFSA limit was rolled back.

#54 Damifino on 09.11.17 at 6:51 pm

If you believe every dollar is equal and should attract the same tax then:

You must also be against TFSA’s since those dollars enjoy tax-free status by definition.

You must also be against RRSP’s since those dollars are tax-free until a future date when the owner of them will supposedly be in a lower tax bracket.

You must be against tax brackets in principle because dollars in different bracket are taxed differently.

You must be against RESP’s and believe that if you want kids you should pay for them yourself and not pick their maintenance costs from other people’s pockets.

You must be against the basic minimum income tax exemption because those dollars aren’t taxed at all. You must believe they need to be made the same and that everyone should pay the same tax, starting right from dollar one.

You must be against property tax breaks for the elderly and that if they can’t afford the same tax as everyone else they should sell and move on to make room for more productive people who can carry their own weight.

You must believe the dollars earned on the sale of a principle residence are tax free for no valid reason and that situation should be fixed immediately.

The Canadian landscape is littered with different dollars. If all dollars are to be equal, let’s go all the way.

#55 Damifino on 09.11.17 at 6:52 pm

#4 NoOneOfConsequence

That’s for sure.

#56 Carlyle on 09.11.17 at 6:53 pm

My wife is an RN.

I can assure you it is not an easy job. Patients spit or even try to hit her, and there are many times when a doctor is not available and a nurse has to make life or death decisions.

They do not go home and sleep soundly, often they are distraught as a patient died in their arms.

With that said, they are well salaried, generous DBPP which I will benefit from one day, can retire earlier (often bridged to 65), great health and dental benefits, 17 sick incidents per year (Sick incidents can be up to 3 days), 4 – 6 weeks off a year paid and have powerful unions that guarantee for the most part generous salary increases and job security. The job itself isn’t easy but the compensation is far better than the average salaried job.

I agree with you Garth mostly on principle that self employed incorporated are getting the shaft. But I do respect nurses. The CNA, ONA and RNAO love to virtue signal. These changes don’t affect the nurses now, although they might as chronic understaffing of doctors becomes even worse thanks to doctors checking out.

#57 saskatoon on 09.11.17 at 6:54 pm

canadian medical doctors contribute nothing to the cost of government.

#58 Mike in Calgary on 09.11.17 at 6:57 pm

I’ve been tracking the numbers for years regarding income levels and levels of taxation paid. I’ve been doing this for almost 20 years and the numbers are surprisingly consistent. And this is based on total income before any deductions.

The top 10% earners (>$80k/year) pay almost 57% of all income taxes assessed; the top 5% (>$100k/year) pay almost 44% of all taxes assessed; and the top 1% (>$250k/year) pay almost 20% of all taxes assessed.

I seems to me that these 1% types whom everyone likes to hate already pays more than their share. But what do I know.

#59 Eating quinoa in Vancouver on 09.11.17 at 6:58 pm

I’ve had the same family dr. for 35 years and she announced her plans to retire over a year ago and recommended “go knocking on doors if you have to” to find a replacement family dr. which is next to impossible in Vancouver. She’s down to one day a week at a clinic even though paying her malpractice insurance means she’s making very little. I was able to see a specialist last week thanks to her and received excellent treatment in a top notch facility. As usual, I asked the nurses at admission if they had any suggestions for family doctors and as usual, they are all looking too, some of them for years now without luck. We need more doctors and health care providers, not less, and when you really need one, no amount of money is enough. I don’t begrudge them a penny of what they earn. They have put in long hard hours to get where they are and I’m grateful for all the treatment and care I’ve received from them over the years.

#60 zapstrap on 09.11.17 at 7:00 pm

But Maxim … you’re not gonna win this fight … it’d be akin to starting up the grizzly bear hunt in BC again …

#61 john on 09.11.17 at 7:02 pm

#30 a Dollar is a Dollar…..< you are absolutely right,all the whinning doesn't change the facts!

#62 Adam on 09.11.17 at 7:03 pm

That disgusting letter is far more class warfare than anything T2 has done.

“The doctor then spends the rest of the night, even the whole week, trying to rectifying this life threatening mistake. Meanwhile, the salaried nurse goes home to sleep at the end of her shift.”

Yeah, nurses just go around willy nilly throwing medication at patients saying, “really? that’s not what was on the script? oh well, doesn’t matter, whatevs, I’m off for the next month! See you in September”.

Good job publishing this guy, though, Garth. This doc doesn’t appear to be delusional and biased at all. Really shows where you stand.

#63 Freebird on 09.11.17 at 7:03 pm

If these measures based are enacted as they stand there will be fall out. So when your local trades person or doctor are less available and or other services / products cost more out of pocket complain to the government and those who supported it. Kudos to our PM to creating a war vs what could have been a constructive dialogue. We are small business owners, are GOOD friends with BOTH doctors and nurses, lawyers, and others who are very much the upper 1%. As friends we may not all agree on this issue but we at least we are choosing to see and understand the other side. Good leaders unite not divide.
BTW we’re not all tax cheats but most with commonsense get that.

#64 Dolce Vita on 09.11.17 at 7:04 pm

#33 JustMe

What did the Roman Empire in, the Western Part, is that they got invaded and lost.

If Atilla and Odoacer came to life, they’d likely debate “The Business Insider” in their own unique way as in rape, pillage and plunder.

Somehow I don’t see Atilla and Odoacer as University educated snooty left leaning intellectuals writing rubbish articles.

#65 Tom on 09.11.17 at 7:06 pm

“The average gross pay for a doctor sits at $339,000. Keep in mind, the amount varies based on doctors’ specialties though: family physicians make about $271,000 while medical specialists make about $338,000 and surgical specialists earn $446,000.”

Poor doctors. Maybe they want to switch with someone who makes 60 grand a year?

#66 Bitcoinnaire on 09.11.17 at 7:06 pm

Totally sold the point Max. Enlightening read.

#67 Dimitry on 09.11.17 at 7:08 pm

Important point is missing in this discussion. It is not about social justice or fairness or some other thing. It is about bureaucracy and politicians seeing Canadians as a infinite source of money.

#68 Denise#1 on 09.11.17 at 7:08 pm

#30 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar With due respect, Garth, I challenge you, and all the entitled princesses complaining here in the comments to listen to Bill Morneau on the subject today:

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-september-11-2017-1.4281425/a-system-that-works-for-all-canadians-finance-minister-bill-morneau-defends-tax-plan-1.4281465

Blows

Your

Argument

Away
====================================Hey Pal, read this about your “trust fund babies” Turdo and Moron. May open your eyes a bit. They’re targeting small business as they’re easy targets, while making out like bandits themselves. Wake up!

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/06/a-little-crooked-house-trudeau-morneau-bmo-kpmg-inc/

#69 Big Bucks on 09.11.17 at 7:10 pm

When nurses have their pensions go up in flames don’t go running for the doctor.

#70 Joe Schmoe on 09.11.17 at 7:11 pm

My spouse is a Dr. The PC is for tax deferment/income leveling…nothing else. We had a couple of kids, so mat leave was self funded. Income was level loaded over the 5 years (worked over 3.8 years).

So criminal.

No EI, so no mat leave.

There is very little other tax benefit to the PC. We invest within the PC as the plan is to slowly draw the money down once the kids start costing more.

I have a job, so there is no income sprinkling. Kids are not on pay roll because well, it’s pretty clear that’s fraud/evasion.

She has to collapse the PC within one year of not practicing…it is not even an effective retirement vehicle.

Doctors are not nearly impacted by these changes as much as tradespeople/contractors/consultants. But they are easy to vilify due their income.

Some myths to dispell:

Docs in fact see patients that they cannot bill for. They do it because they care.

Docs are being pushed into salaried positions to reduce what they earn, to allow to hire more docs. It’s ok. Very few Docs care about the reduced compensation as long as it comes with rationalization of hours.

Who actually believes the Governments will hire more Docs to cover more hours to reduce the individual cost? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you…

There are a handful of people in Western Canada that are trained to do what my wife does. Who is going to cover her hours? The mythical replacement docs who are sitting on the sidelines just waiting for a job?

These tax changes won’t change our families quality of life. Not in the least. But it will sure change for the120-150 people a week who need to see a specialist.

You get what you wish for sometimes. People want my wife punitively punished for being successful. The kids and I would like her home more. Win-win! Until you need to see a doctor trained to do what she does…

#71 greyhound on 09.11.17 at 7:11 pm

Do the words “professional jealousy” have any relevance in this discussion?

#72 Freebird on 09.11.17 at 7:12 pm

Many MD’s are married to nurses, and many work in the same clinic. Also, many private home care agencies are owned/ run by nurses. Don’t assume ALL nurses support the new rules.

#73 Valleyboy on 09.11.17 at 7:12 pm

I sympathize for doctors. But again if they feel they are being paid unfair quit or start a doc union and fight for better rates. The private sector we also get more stress the more responsibility we take on. Again I think the issue the doctors are complaining about is a pay issue. And if they feel they need the loopholes to survive or make it worth while then unfortunately quit like we do to get a raise or start a union to fight the gov for you. our doctors should be treated like gold but favoring every company in Canada just because you own a business is unfair if you can’t offer the employees the same deal.
You luck out start a great buisness, you hire a manager and get to sit on your behind taking advantage of all the loopholes while you hang out in hawii.

#74 millmech on 09.11.17 at 7:18 pm

I have no problem with this since the outcome will not be the 500 million he is looking to recover, it is just a test of how easy it was to get citizens to turn on each other by referring to them as cheats for taking part in Canadian Government approved tax benefits.
Now that that was so easy, next up all those thieving homeowners getting all that free money from the sale of their primary residences. Those homeowners have been using the capital gains exemption loophole to benefit themselves to the tune of untaxed billions. Meanwhile leaving a lot of low income Canadians to face harsh economic choices since they could not benefit from this loophole themselves. Being that Canada is a fair country they will now look to level the playing field and will look at taxing this unjust loophole as income since a dollar is a dollar is a dollar.
It is coming and it will sound probably just like that and the people who will bring it in will be the millennials who are unable to partake in this largess. Since millennials are greater in number than boomers and are less likely to be affected by this, they will vote JT in for another term.

#75 dosouth on 09.11.17 at 7:19 pm

Enough already. You pick your career you pick your outcome and there is always room somewhere else. Hundreds in Med Schools around the world looking to come here and some…gasp!…. with better credentials than some of your whining bloggers.

Garth do you happen to be incorporated?

#76 the Jaguar on 09.11.17 at 7:24 pm

Wow. The first paragraph could have been written by Billy Bob.

#77 Costco Nation on 09.11.17 at 7:24 pm

Well said Dr Maxim. But, good luck with that. I came from an ex-communist country and, even if I was only in my last year of university when the communism finally succumbed giving birth to an equally corrupt system, I had the opportunity to fully taste the delights of what’s generated by human jealousy and feeling of entitlement. I was literally suicidal on the prospect of communism falling while it kept me waiting. Trying to describe the pain would require a pen that I don’t own. Only when I realized that the political regime was only a consequence of something deeper, that never changed, I decided to leave my birth land. Does anyone think this is easy? Pray to think deeply.
Well, now I see here the same mentality not only becoming predominant, but being used for political benefit. I cannot describe how I feel. I would like to scream with a thousand voices WAKE UP.
Please read about communism and be wary. It is a hell hole. The individuals doing this right now are downright criminals. They should be immediately neutered. On the spot, with full harshness.
That’s all I will ever say.

#78 Richard Large on 09.11.17 at 7:25 pm

The question is how much should Canadian doctors be paid? They are already paid 5th highest in the world (presumably before the tax loopholes).

https://journal.practicelink.com/vital-stats/physician-compensation-worldwide/

#79 TS on 09.11.17 at 7:25 pm

Somewhere between Justin Trudeau’s opinion and Garth Turner’s on this issue is the truth.

#80 Fran Deck Jr. on 09.11.17 at 7:27 pm

re: 30 … A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar

“Garth, I challenge you and all the entitled princesses complaining here in the comments to listen to Bill Morneau on the subject … blows your argument away”

I don’t recall the CBC asking Morneau about his offshore Bahamian banking activities, which I would guess are all about avoiding (minimizing) Canadian taxes … I thought the liberals were all about social justice and fair being fair and no one being left behind … how ironic eh … maybe Zoolander will ask Moneybags Morneau to resign?

Maybe Canadian doctors should start incorporating themselves in one of those off-shore tax havens just like our Finance Minister \

#81 Johnny D on 09.11.17 at 7:28 pm

Want to read some horrifying literature? Read NDP leadership wannabe Niki Ashton’s proposals. http://www.nikiashton2017.ca

She wishes to cap TFSAs at $50,000 for life for one thing. Wants to add a special tax to purchasing stocks. Wants to tax inheritances by almost 50%… and the list goes on.

It is truly scary that someone who is that out of touch can make it that far in politics.

#82 Bill Morneau on 09.11.17 at 7:29 pm

Comrades!’ he cried. ‘You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat those apples.”

#83 Pete on 09.11.17 at 7:31 pm

#35 Stone

Bravo and well said.

#84 Joanne on 09.11.17 at 7:36 pm

Why is it socially acceptable for a doctor to complain about taxes? They’re just greedy and make emotional arguments to keep their taxes low. As for stress over medical mistakes, check out this Toronto Star article. If only our tax dollars went towards more medical equipment, more nurses and, and more modestly paid doctors. We would all receive better care!

“You decide to sue your doctor for pain, suffering, loss of income and the costs of care.

Here’s what you may not know: you won’t just have to pay your own lawyer. Your tax dollars will finance top-flight lawyers to vigorously defend your doctor and challenge your claims.

Ontario taxpayers last year paid almost $200 million to subsidize the legal defences of doctors charged with medical negligence, regulatory transgressions and criminal offences.

That amount has jumped by 3,200 per cent over the past 28 years, according to Health Ministry figures, and it’s projected to continue rising exponentially.” – https://www.thestar.com/amp/life/health_wellness/2015/09/15/suing-a-doctor-your-tax-dollars-will-be-used-against-you.html

#85 sprawl on 09.11.17 at 7:36 pm

I think the argument, against PMJT’s tax grab, being self-employed is tough (which it is) is a weak one. The OMA guys where on the TVO’s the Agenda, couple of years back, when being paid a salary came up. They jumped on it, with benefits!, with a government pension! a doctor’s union! holidays! no accounting! Absolutely they wanted in. But that’s want they’re being offered. Really the danger is, like the blog reference, is disregard for generally accepted accounting practices. To squeeze more undeserved cash from the private sector. Better would be ending public sector unions, which in the absence of employee employer moral hazard, never made sense.

#86 S on 09.11.17 at 7:37 pm

This is no biggie. Docs will deal with this. A physician I know already informed his staff that as of few weeks from now their hours will be cut down by what amounts to five weeks of work per year with a caveat that more of this may be in the works depending on how onerous the new tax regime becomes. He plans to work a lot less and enjoy life a lot more. Wonder what happens to his patient wait list, already over six months long.
Many doctors only dream of becoming salaried government employees with paid vacation, retirement package, a salary that would reflect the twelve to fifteen years of post secondary education now required in this country to become a physician. And lets not forget the human rights/employee rights side of this. If truck drivers are only allowed to work 14 hours daily why is it OK to require physician to put in sixteen, eighteen and not all that seldom thirty six hour shifts (office, all night at the hospital then office again). And, o yeah, someone will have to cover the cost of staff, rent, supplies etc. Want to pay your doctors as employees? Then give them the rights of employees.
Way to go Justin! I wonder if this guy has a clue what a disgusting can of worms he is about to open.

#87 Joe Schmoe on 09.11.17 at 7:38 pm

#57

Your opinion is part of the problem…any facts to back you up? Or just the usual bitter/uneducated rhetoric?

Boat loads of highly trained Docs just begging to come to Canada! Can’t hardly spit without hitting one!

#88 JustMe on 09.11.17 at 7:39 pm

#62 Dolce Vita

What did the Roman Empire in, the Western Part, is that they got invaded and lost.

———————————————————————–

In the 5th century, tax riots and all-out rebellion were commonplace in the countryside among the few farmers who remained. Under such a debilitating regime, both rich and poor wished dearly that the barbarian hordes would deliver them from the burden of Roman taxation. Many Roman peasants even fought alongside their invaders, as was the case when Balkan miners defected to the Visigoths en masse in 378.

In his book Decadent Societies, historian Robert Adams wrote, “By the fifth century, men were ready to abandon civilization itself in order to escape the fearful load of taxes.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/all-transactions-to-be-conducted-in-the-presence-of-a-tax-collector-2012-4

#89 Joe Schmoe on 09.11.17 at 7:40 pm

Sorry…meant #72 not #57

#90 Frank Rizzo on 09.11.17 at 7:42 pm

What’s to worry about if you’re small business?

Just do what I did, cut out 60 weekly work hours and make the rest pick up the slack.

Voila, zero change to net income.

#91 Chris on 09.11.17 at 7:45 pm

Great letter Maxim, and you raise many excellent points!

Except. Fee-for-service could be argued as one of the most pernicious aspects of health care in Canada, and maybe this assault on physician incorporation maybe could lead to a reconsideration of the whole paradigm. Fee for services practices lead to increased and unnecessary rates of testing on patients (https://www.cihi.ca/en/canadians-have-more-than-1-million-potentially-unnecessary-medical-tests-and-treatments-every-year), which in turn causes increased costs and strain on the public health insurance system in the country. Furthermore, as you even allude to in your letter, this delivery system encourages physicians to see as many patients as possible in as short of time as possible.

Maybe salaried physicians could be the solution for a whole host of reasons, including addressing nearly all of the aforementioned reasons in your letter. It’s possible that it may also help improve health outcomes for patients, and maybe even be cheaper for the health system at large.

Levelling the playing field with regards to tax policy may be one other benefit, and eliminate all that stress of being a small business owner.

#92 Gwealth on 09.11.17 at 7:47 pm

**argo said:**
>”Perhaps instead of having 50 doctors working 70 hours a week and bringing in $200k, there could be 100 doctors working 40 hours a week bringing in $100k… who could argue with that scenario?”

Bahahaha. Who’s going to go through med school for 100k, when you can do a law degree in less time or an engineering degree in even less time and make more?

I don’t know about Ontario, but in BC we have a shortage of Drs at current pay levels. You need to pay more to attract more doctors (to then reduce hours required). Reality is doctors can leave to the US so we have to pay somewhat competitively.

#93 YVR Update on 09.11.17 at 7:48 pm

Bc Budget by NDP today.

They basically abandoned their housing platform. They are going to lose next election big time. Maybe on purpose?

#94 For those about to flop... on 09.11.17 at 7:49 pm

#200 NoName on 09.11.17 at 1:00 pm
Hey flopy

Any comment on that lamb comercial. Dont tell me you dont know of it.

/////////////////////////

Brad Lamb?

No ,I don’t think we get that one on this side of the hill…

M43BC

#95 JustMe on 09.11.17 at 7:50 pm

#62 Dolce Vita

What did the Roman Empire in, the Western Part, is that they got invaded and lost.

————————————————————————

“What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”
― Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/6188.Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel

#96 jess on 09.11.17 at 7:51 pm

how bout these temp jobs

http://projects.thestar.com/temp-employment-agencies/index.html

#97 Raging Ranter on 09.11.17 at 7:52 pm

I will say this. More than a few high income medical professionals voted for Trudeau, even though he was campaigning on raising the top bracket from 29% to 33%. Now why would high income earners vote for a tax increase on high income earners? Because they assumed it wouldn’t apply to them. Because they are incorporated and split income through a family trust, they thought they could remain safely below the $220k threshold.

Well guess what? When you vote for a tax increase for “other people”, don’t be shocked when the government gets around to defining you as “other people”. Middle class voters who put Bob Rae and the NDP in power in Ontario in 1990 because he promised to tax the rich quickly found out that earning 35k or more in a year made them “rich”.

The moral of this story? Don’t vote for tax increases for “other people”. You will get what you asked for, it just won’t be what you thought you asked for.

#98 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.11.17 at 7:54 pm

What have been perfectly legal and accepted accounting practices for decades are now called ‘loopholes.’ The meme has spread like a virus, that incorporated people are thieves.
———————————————————
You see Garth, things get manipulated for political ends. Soon it will be accepted that all those with TFSA’s, RRSP’s etc. haven’t been paying their fair share; “it’s a loophole” that must be closed.
I’ve been telling people for years: Get your after-tax dollars out of this country. Open an account in Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Andorra, etc and move your money there. Buy yourself a citizenship in one of those countries in the Caribbean that offer such (some can be obtained for as low as around $300 grand). When it finally all falls apart here and they come for total wealth confiscation, you simply flee the country, renounce your Canadian citizenship, get rid of all of your Canadian holdings, and retire.

#99 Yankee Canuck on 09.11.17 at 7:55 pm

These tax changes are millennial entitlement writ large into public policy. It is all about me.

#100 MF on 09.11.17 at 7:58 pm

Garth you have to stop with our own little “us vs them” theme on this blog.

4/10 Canadians voted for these Liberal clowns…a large percentage of these people voted because Harper was mean. How pathetic. Anyways, the majority of our population may not support these stupid policies.

MF

#101 Stone on 09.11.17 at 7:59 pm

#45 Debtslavecreator on 09.11.17 at 6:44 pm

Socialism doesn’t work? Have you been to Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Finland? Some of the best places on earth.

And before you ask: yes, I’d love to live there even with their high taxation. They’re very transparent about where the money goes. Wish I could have stayed there longer (or forever).

#102 n1tro on 09.11.17 at 7:59 pm

#30 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm
With due respect, Garth, I challenge you, and all the entitled princesses complaining here in the comments to listen to Bill Morneau on the subject today:

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-september-11-2017-1.4281425/a-system-that-works-for-all-canadians-finance-minister-bill-morneau-defends-tax-plan-1.4281465

Blows

Your

Argument

Away

!
———————————
I listened. Nothing Bill Morneau said blew anything away. He dodged direct questions such as “what is considered rich?”…..where then Bill would respond, “Well, I this case….”

No Bill. A direct question was asked of you, answer what is considered rich, not what is considered rich in this particular case.

Bill got his ass called out on the 0.01% super rich stock option loophole tax which he dropped after the election. “To be clear, we didn’t back away, we are just not moving forward…” Is it me or is that is just saying the same thing?!

It’s a shame that when questioned about the 0.01% super rich that Bill wasn’t asked how he personally feels since he is a fellow 0.01% super rich and most likely using the stock option loophole.

#103 Joanne on 09.11.17 at 7:59 pm

Also, doc compensation has risen 30% in last decade because of a fear they woul move to US. I wish my salary was 30% higher!

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/doctor-salaries-have-shot-up-30-in-past-decade-over-fears-of-physician-shortage-brain-drain-to-u-s-report/amp

#104 Andrew Woburn on 09.11.17 at 8:01 pm

Believe it or not, children, there was a time when the Nice Lady at the Bank was actually there to help you, not to pick your pocket. You could even phone her to fix a problem.

I find dealing with banks more and more problematic but this guy’s experience is beyond belief. I pass it on as a cautionary note to small businessmen. Remember this is about HSBC, a global bank.

“Because our account is suspended all direct debits linked to it automatically fail. All services that store our debit card and try to charge it also fail. We are unable to transfer any money out of our business account, which means we cannot pay ourselves, our freelancers, or any of our suppliers.”

– HSBC is killing my business, piece by piece — How to plan for your bank screwing up

https://medium.com/@photonstorm/hsbc-is-killing-my-business-piece-by-piece-d7f5547f3929

#105 MF on 09.11.17 at 8:03 pm

S,

Nobody care about time spent in school.

Hasn’t mattered since the 1980’s. We’ve got ph’d’s working at Starbucks.

I can’t stand that argument because it’s simply wrong.

Anyways, what a lot of you don’t understand is docs maybe “complaining” about all the hours they do but the general population has to contend with underemployment. Most people have to cobble together three part time contract garbage positions to get “full time”.

I am not one to generation bait, but I think boomers are 100% naive to this fact.

***when I was in undergrad EVERYONE wanted medical school. I don’t think there is any shortage of willing and capable applicants.

MF

#106 Johnathan on 09.11.17 at 8:04 pm

The start of Communisim is when the pit the classes against each other. They make you hate the small elite and then convince you it is okay to take their belongings and send them to camps for speaking out…. Then we all lose our voice.

Russian Revolution took two tries and and about 30 years, here’s hoping we don’t experience one try in our lifetime.

#107 Docs are the 1% in Canada! on 09.11.17 at 8:04 pm

@#23, doctors in Ontario are funded by the taxpayers because their taxes fund the Canadian Medical Protection Association which is one very aggressive legal department.

I know one friend of mine wrote a negative review of a doctor in Ontario, and she was welcomed at the front door by several armed police men. They warned her that she will end up in prison next time she writes a review about the doctor.

I also know another story where a girl was sexually assaulted by a doctor, and the mistake her parents made was that they complained to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario.

Under the College rules, they do not allow material from the complaint to be used in a civil lawsuit. In addition, under double jeopardy laws in Canada, the civil lawsuit is also struck because the Supreme Court ruled that a complaint to the College is a civil lawsuit.

Doctors who want to harm patients do not have to fear any lawsuit or complaint because the law is on their side. Such a shame.

#108 -=jwk=- on 09.11.17 at 8:07 pm

maxim; state your credentials or get out. Your examples are equal parts silly, stupid and just plain untrue. Fake news. What a load of crap. NOTHING you said is true, realsitic or even possible.

They are so bad, and so stupid, Iam not going to bother debunking them until you explan where you got these silly ideas!! You don’t think doctors work shifts? You think any front office staff are going to book an appointment without a valid health card? who? where?

my creds: 25 years in healthcare, split between hospital frontline and administration.

I was – literally- laughing out loud at your letter, so thanks for that.

#109 Doctors aren't managers on 09.11.17 at 8:07 pm

Maxim’s a bit of a martyr if he thought he went to management school for business administration, human resources, and finance at the same time he went to medical school.

..wait Maxim didn’t go to both you said? But he’s just taking them both on because he’s an A-type that got him the high paying career that he has? Wait, is saving lives and getting paid handsomely not enough for Maxim? He needs to try and run a business at the same time?

Create a co-op with your doctor friends. Have someone manage your staff for you, and pay yourself a salary. That nurse that dosed the patient incorrectly will be reprimanded by your co-op, and you can go home while another doctor takes the night shift. It’s not a for-profit, in a co-op the money goes to you and your fellow doctors, the shareholders, not for retained earnings, etc.

Wise-up chap. You’re a doctor!

#110 1%er hourly employee on 09.11.17 at 8:09 pm

Oh my the crying is so pityful. I’ve been having the gubberment suck the life out of my paycheck for decades. Now I’m supposed to feel sorry for others that gross the same, ha ha.
So I’m eligible for E.I., what’s that $40g max. Ha ha 1mnth into the year that’s gone, not eligible, made to much already.
Oh, I get benefits, ha ha you morons don’t have benefits for your employees or pay for them yourself. It’s part of my pay package. Suck it up.
Hmm I get vacation, what you’re to stupid to take time off?? What’s that….mines paid ha ha that’s also part of my deal…..you don’t like deals.
My oh my we can’t forget about the risk taking. While I’m riding right along with you bro, but I don’t get much say. You blow the shit out of the company and bankrupt yourself and I’m out on the street with you, the risk seems the same but you get the reward. Oh ya I can collect EI…but it’s past January and I’ve made to much so I’m not eligible.
Oh oh I almost forgot about cpp. Ha ha that’s a joke, how much does that pay, please it’s pityful.
Now why don’t we all get together and work out a tax plan that’s fair for everyone. Hmmmm like a flat tax.

#111 Marcus on 09.11.17 at 8:09 pm

I have family in Canada that correct me when I explain this sort of stuff to them and call it Socialism. they proudly exclaim it’s not socialism it’s communism! Finally the rich are getting theirs! Canada is soooooooo screwed. Still good fishing however.

#112 paulo on 09.11.17 at 8:10 pm

Lucky 7’s anybody:

Did you know that for the past 130 years or so, Stock markets have suffered losses,corrections and out rite crashes in October of every year that ended in the number 7. have to wounder what this years lucky 7 holds for markets.

On the proposed small biz gelding, this is a very divisive issue, with very significant social and economic
implications. i suspect that the T2 gang will regret there misadventure here, time and the ballot box will tell.

#113 JustMe on 09.11.17 at 8:12 pm

The Truth About The Fall of Rome: Modern Parallels

The fall of the Roman Empire closely mirrors the challenges currently facing Europe and North America – everything we need to know to save everything we love is written deep in the history of ancient Rome – all we need to do is look!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXAWpydTSms

#114 diharv on 09.11.17 at 8:12 pm

#4 NoOneOfConsequence
When you get comments like the one from the idiot at #4 and the CNA doing what they are doing , it is clear that the govt strategy of divide and conquer by turning public opinion against entrepreneurs is working brilliantly . It almost has to be applauded .

#115 Lost...but not leased on 09.11.17 at 8:14 pm

Elephant in the room ?

Maybe comrade T2 tax grab is designed to keep Public Sector pension solvent.

One can do a Google search and see what disaster this is becoming in the USA…literally broke.

Why pick on M.D’S…….where is it written we are obligated to support Public Sector wages and benefits.

As parties have alluded to..Gov’t jobs once trade lower pay for job security….now it seems they have both.

If we are going to point fingers….maybe lets start THERE.

#116 Jungle on 09.11.17 at 8:14 pm

Agree comments 20 and 21.
Any business owner faces similar risks that’s just managing the businesses. (sick calls, liability, rents, it problems, etc)

As stated, the reward “is” much higher compensation and “sky is the limit” potential.

And as stated above, when you run the show, you get to call the shots. Working as employee risks often treated like garbage, disposable and underpaid.

#117 Smoking Man on 09.11.17 at 8:15 pm

It’s not surprising why the 99% are the 99%.

Rather than go after the government and demand income splitting and perks for their house hold.

They take a sick kind of pride watching hard working pros about to get financially crushed by this insane confiscation.

This is why the 99% will always be poor slaves.

#118 bubu on 09.11.17 at 8:15 pm

@ #75 Richard Large, those numbers are way lower than reality… at least in AB they make way more than that….

#119 Entrepreneur on 09.11.17 at 8:16 pm

The tax loopholes have been in play for decades as someone mentioned above but now “modified.” And can go back and forth with reasons/why (CRA can look after the cheaters.)

But one thing the government has to be careful of is the word “incentive.” With the new rule where is the incentive to become a doctor as they take on an enormous risk. (Oh right, the globalist duo will just bring in doctors from abroad.)

A daily risky job should be in a different group from the other that are not so life threatening.

Will this “modified” tax backfire on the Liberal government, make the hospital/lives worse, more expensive? And why is it the Liberal government not is pushing this through so fast? Why not a consultation period?

#120 Manitoba Whale on 09.11.17 at 8:18 pm

#65 Dimitry on 09.11.17 at 7:08 pm
Important point is missing in this discussion. It is not about social justice or fairness or some other thing. It is about bureaucracy and politicians seeing Canadians as a infinite source of money.
*****

As we argue one way or another the Liberal government is still spending a chunk more than they said they would on questionable things, IMO.
In times of prosperity we should be shovelling dollars towards paying down our debt, not growing it by billions.
They could have sold this tax increase/fairness policy without much hubbub if they would demonstrate that they are working hard to balance a budget. Instead we get money being thrown off like T2 is on a merry go round trying to make friends with every horse and pony that approaches him.

#121 Entrepreneur on 09.11.17 at 8:19 pm

And why is it the Liberal government pushing this through so fast? Why not a consultation period? Correction on #101.

#122 Invictus on 09.11.17 at 8:20 pm

Self employed turned employee for the sake of regular hours and regular family life.

To all you crabs at the bottom of the bucket pulling down the ones who try to get out of it only because you are to lazy to move your limbs any more than moving the spoon from the plate to the mouth or lack mental and physical discipline needed to succeed and think 40 hours a week is all you need to do. Step up or man up,or whatever expression, next time you go to see your doc. Tell them that you support the tax changes. Or even better tell your spouse to tell to the surgeon, right before that 10 hour life saving surgery after your car accident, that you are strong supporter of the tax changes. Or even much better, ( god forbid that I wish it upon anyone to happen but it does, happen to me). If your child should get sick (not a fever or a cough) and you are standing in the front of the ER doctor with your child in your hands make sure to tell him or her ( bless the one I was standing in front of) that you think they are making to much money and that you support the tax changes just before you hand your child over to them.
I used to make high 100’s low 200’s as an employee and used to bitch about taxes louder than anyone else. Not any more. Not after that night.
2min and 45 seconds after my wife made 911 call and said “sick child” there were emergency people in our bedroom with all the equipment making sure my little one is ok and turning the bedroom in to ER room. Doc was on their way to. Luckily everything turned ok. Place I come from barely has any emergency response and I don’t even want to think about it. Until you live it you will not understand it.
Leave the docs out of it, I say, for sooner or later everyone will need one. What happens if there are gone fish’n? The irony.

Why do you care if doctor’s wife is not working why do you care if he has a many fancy cars. What you should care is to motivate them to be there when you need them the most.
Get your life in order. Count your own money. Because if you spend time counting someone else’s you are missing opportunities to better your self and will never have any money of your own to count.

Rant over.

M44ON
INVICTUS

P.S. Food for thought.
What happens if the top dog here decides that he needs to start charging for playing on his playground and starts charging for any financial wisdom he so freely dispenses here because he has to pay much more taxes as self-employed for the tax fairness.
It’s not like he is making money on number of clicks.
Hint : Go to “Zero guy”.

#123 Kurt on 09.11.17 at 8:20 pm

Yeesh! I work for a *real* entrepreneur, and I have two words for Maxim:

Market Risk.

All the other business owners have to take the risk that there will be no-one to buy what they are selling, or that other business will be able to undercut your price. Our single-payer health care system, combined with the blatant restraint of trade implicit in the very limited number of slots in Canadian medical schools, *guarantees* that the doctor will have a market. Get back to me when you are a businessman instead of a (contract) civil servant.

#124 AR on 09.11.17 at 8:20 pm

‘Perhaps instead of having 50 doctors working 70 hours a week and bringing in $200k, there could be 100 doctors working 40 hours a week bringing in $100k… who could argue with that scenario?’

I agree. Put doctors on salary, just like teachers. Are they becoming doctors to help people or to make huge money? They should earn more than teachers but the structure should be the same as nurses and teachers.

#125 Bezengy on 09.11.17 at 8:23 pm

The best option for 99% of people is to just get a job working for the government, provincial or federal. Take all your sick days, sign up for all the freebies, and take a year off if you get stressed out. This idea of starting your own business is just silly, and anyone who tries it must be nuts.

#126 The bottom line on 09.11.17 at 8:26 pm

A lot of these listed are similar to risks employed professionals face and yet don’t get the tax break (nor do they get the overtime pay etc.), ex employed engineers or lawyers.

Its about the tax break.

With or without it doctors still make a lot of money on taxpayers expense.

That’s the bottom line.

#127 Wait There on 09.11.17 at 8:28 pm

This tax issue seems to veer towards doctors etc.

What about the small business owner. From tomorrow, they should lay off ALL their employess one by one and indicate that if they want to work, they will be a contracted employee. Period.

One by one, this needs to happen and watch the tides turn.

Pissed off by this and ungrateful employees who don’t know what it takes to operate a business.

We NEED a recession badly. Recessions cleanse the system and rejuvenate an economy and everybody gets a fresh perspective of reality and the market.

We need a recession and layoffs and then we’ll hear how people feel about a job when they cannot get one or create one for themself.

#128 Abe Bruce on 09.11.17 at 8:29 pm

Instead of screaming that doctors are getting taxed too low, you should be screaming about how You are taxed too high. But you are spineless jellyfish, afraid to be courageous and fight. You want your unions and your nanny state to overtax everyone and you’re pacified by false promises of the blessings of bigger government, instead of campaigning for independence. And you will get what you deserve.

#129 Soviet Capitalist on 09.11.17 at 8:33 pm

Can someone explain to me why ‘equalisation’ is always interpreted as maximising tax for everyone and not ‘let’s minimise the tax on employees to bring them to the same level as self-employed’?

#130 Wait There on 09.11.17 at 8:38 pm

Easy to go after doctors….the REAL issue is that the middle class is in a squeeze with global competition that globalist Justin has no solution for. He does not want to tell them the bad news.

The doctor tax is a fog and sideshow for distraction.

RBC’s CEO is trying to attract talent for AI development software for banks. Guess what happens to those middle class jobs at the banks when AI hits. Hello Justin, explain that to the middle class. BTW, it is around the corner folks not Science Fiction. Don’t worry the middle class is going to get pounded like blue collar workers did the last 20 years and it will come faster within 5-10 years.

#131 genbizx on 09.11.17 at 8:39 pm

not to worry…the liberal gang will have worn out their welcome provincially and federally come election time. we have no real power to change all their mistakes but we can vote.
i like the comment about trust fund babies…i just can’t stand that these little pasty skinned, pencil necks are pontificating on what is fair and right. they have no idea what it’s like to not start life on second base with daddy’s money and friends. makes me sick.

#132 taxpayer on 09.11.17 at 8:42 pm

Thanks Maxin for your bedtime story on how the field of medicine is next best thing to sitting on the right side of the ‘Big Guy’. Couple of counterpoints tho…should ask medical support staff what kind of money they make and if they have any benefits. How dare they get sick and to make matters worse, actually stay home! Sick days? highly unlikely.
Secondly , the poor Docs wife that feels like a single mom[ uncontrollabe laughter] because hubby works too much. Did we mention those poor almost orphaned children of the doc are probably being ‘sprinkled’ with some of Daddy’s income. Maxin please talk to a REAL single mom [ who can’t sprinkle] and maybe then you can directed your simpathy where it really belongs.
Thirdly, do you think docs have never cancelled an afternoon of scheduled appts to get to the cottage,golf course etc? Meanwhile the staff have to do callbacks to try and reach the patients to reschedule…not to mention the patients who will lose pay[no benefits] to fulfill their appt that was booked months in advanced.
That’s all for now Maxim..nighty,night

#133 Manitoba Whale on 09.11.17 at 8:45 pm

I don’t recall the CBC asking Morneau about his offshore Bahamian banking activities, which I would guess are all about avoiding (minimizing) Canadian taxes … I thought the liberals were all about social justice and fair….
*****

Just an FYI, how does one go about getting an offshore account, does one have to….well, if I don’t know at this point in life I don’t have enough dough.
People can relate to those a little better off than themselves, anything like offshore accounts goes over their heads, at least it does mine. Billions and trillions are hard to imagine as opposed to $50,000.
Therefore no one cares.

#134 AB Boxster on 09.11.17 at 8:46 pm

#100 Joanne on 09.11.17 at 7:59 pm

doc compensation has risen 30% in last decade
———————————
Holy crap!
30% Higher.
You mean if a doctor was making $100k 10 years ago, they are now making a whole 133K?

Which works out to about a massive 3% increase per year.

Now I know that most menial jobs in the world never get an an icrease in pay.
But as professionals moving through one’s career, increases of 3% per year are barely over the cost of living and in fact are quite pathetic.

The fact that anyone would consider 3% as high is in fact really telling.

And if you yourself are not getting at least 3% a year then you are losing money every year because despite what they say inflation is vastly higher than official numbers.
Maybe its time for a new job.

#135 Rocuronium on 09.11.17 at 8:46 pm

‘Meanwhile, the salaried nurse goes home to sleep at the end of her shift.’ Really? Nurses are professionally accountable for their actions and I doubt any nurse will sleep soundly if something happens to their patient. Thanks for the insult.
CNA didn’t ask for my opinion about supporting the tax changes.

#136 genbizx on 09.11.17 at 8:47 pm

i also like the comment kurt #120

i think the tax is crappy but i also think it’s way crappier for a real entrepreneur who is often at the mercy of the market and forces beyond our borders…

i’ll say it again…you want money? find the real cheaters…dismantle criminal groups operating with impunity, tackle government waste, reduce government in general….

aah what’s the use..

#137 Dr. God on 09.11.17 at 8:48 pm

I like what the doctor wrote and agree with many if not all of his points.

As it relates to doctors and nurses though, that’s a different kettle of fish. My wife is a nurse and she has told me many of the stories of the doctors she has had to work with and how difficult such a large number of them are.
This does impact the perception of nurses and how they view them, and the money they earn.

The “Dr. God” syndrome is real, not something imaginary. I have had several good conversations with docs who have confirmed my experience with the “Dr. God” types. These are the ones who get their degree and suddenly inherit a level of arrogance that makes them experts in all kinds of subjects they know little or nothing about.

I have had to suffer through this with a sibling who became unbearable once he began practicing.

My wife was told in her early 20’s that she’d never have kids, by who else, a Dr. God.

As a society we put them on a pedestal and lots of them take to that position like fish to water.
I have known lots of excellent medical experts…doctors, who are great people and very good at what they do. Unfortunately, they are a boat load of troublesome ones who don’t listen and create incredible problems for themselves and the others in their profession.

#138 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.11.17 at 8:49 pm

The real beneficiaries of this massive scam are the retirees from government and related agencies who have no trouble arguing that the rich need to pay more.
———————————————————
Funny thing is that in a couple more years, as the whole economy comes crashing down, these same people will be targeted as being ‘the rich’. Oh, they own a house, they’re too rich. They own 2 cars, they own a boat, they went on vacation, they have TFSA’s they have RRSP’s etc. ‘THEY’RE TOO RICH, THEY NEED TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE’ will be the refrain from those destroyed by the housing fiasco and the new taxes.

#139 I thinks I know something on 09.11.17 at 8:51 pm

There are plenty of incorporated small business folks that could easily operate as sole proprietors. They have incorporated to gain tax advantages. Incorporating essentially involves filling out some papers. That then allows the splitting of income amongst family members and allows reporting of some income as dividends, (because they’re members of the board), etc. These strategies results in some small business owners paying much lower taxes than an employee who earns the same income. So, how in the heck is that fair?

BTW, I’m an IT Consultant that has been incorporated for the last 5 years. Starting right after I retired as a full time employee. Though I now earn much more as a consultant I pay much less in taxes.

I incorporated because it allows major tax advantages, but there is no way I could argue with a straight face that it is fair. If they close this “loophole” I’ll gladly pay my fair share of the tax burden as long as my fellow consultants do as well.

#140 AB Boxster on 09.11.17 at 8:52 pm

#100 Joanne on 09.11.17 at 7:59 pm

You should wish that housing ‘only’ went up 30% in the last decade.

And you complain that someones wage went up that much when housing has gone up 100% or more in some places?

#141 TurnerNation on 09.11.17 at 8:53 pm

June who?

#142 Trojan House on 09.11.17 at 9:00 pm

#30 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.11.17 at 6:26 pm

I listened to most of the interview and will re-listen to all of it. Didn’t sound too convincing to me. I missed the beginning though and until the host mentioned it was Wild Bill, I thought it was some liberal back bencher – he sounded like he had no clue how to present his argument. Kept trying to justify his argument by using the term ‘fairness’ over and over again.

He did not sound like a finance minister who knew what he was doing. Kinda surprising…or maybe not, I don’t know…

#143 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.11.17 at 9:00 pm

“What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”
― Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
—————————————————————
Governments lean from it. They know that the route leading to hyperinflation is the only route to keep them in power. They have also learned that through all of the surges and collapses of empires throughout the ages, they are always able to remain on top through subterfuge. There are families in power these days that can track their lineage back to the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt.

#144 the ryguy on 09.11.17 at 9:02 pm

Arguing about “fairness” here is lunacy.

I expect more from people, especially what I would expect is a smarter crowd like Garths audience.

Ask why is the govt doing this? It’s Because they have spent and borrowed into near bankruptcy and the name on the credit card is “taxpayer”.

All the while they have gold plated pensions and I’m sure absurd expense accounts as well.

Stop fighting over individual tax rates and should a business get certain breaks.

Lets start DEMANDING a reduction in government expenditure. Lets pass real laws that protect the work of our own citizens. I have a few suggestions that would be a great start.

– ZERO foreign aid, unless the country has a surplus with no debt.
– FULL audits of every single public officials spending. Any dime of taxpayers dollars wrongfully spent will result in an automatic end to said officials pension as well as jail time and asset seizure until the countries coffers are made whole.
– ZERO pension contributions to politicians if the country has a deficit.

These problems have compounded for years and thats why we are here. In the end we the taxpayers will all get screwed. Anyone that doesn’t see this, and blames doctors for our countries inability to pay its debts is a blithering idiot.

#145 Hawk on 09.11.17 at 9:03 pm

It seems that the 73% tax on retained earnings has been dropped for now. Retained earnings are earnings left over after the income has been taxed anyway, but I think this is temporary. The liberals will probably re-introduce this later on.

Canada will suffer a lot as small business closes shop and in particular Doctors wave good bye as they pack their bags and head south

#146 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.17 at 9:03 pm

So because a doctor or business owner decides to pursue a career with all that risk, that should allow them to skirt paying a fair tax rate on wages?

#147 bob on 09.11.17 at 9:05 pm

I’ve been following Garth daily, and some of the comments in here are disturbing. Yes, there are many who come here and whine and complain. But equally, there seems to be many angry people telling off business owners as rich fat cats and entitled tax loophole cheaters.

I remember a few days/weeks ago, the comments were all about “what risk does a doctor have?” or “doctors don’t have any risk”.

I thank Maxim for providing a detailed account of these items, so that we can all have meaningful discussions.

In fact, I just re-read the post… the letter explicitly states it was talking about business-risk. Maxim wasn’t even complaining about the taxes, only that the CNA / nurses are now pitted against the doctors, and we have Trudeau to thank for this.

#148 Blacksheep on 09.11.17 at 9:08 pm

YVR # 90,

“Bc Budget by NDP today.”

“They basically abandoned their housing platform. They are going to lose next election big time. Maybe on purpose?”
———————————
The system, simply sat the newbies down and told them how things, actually worked.

I keep saying it….

“Don’t bet against the system.”

Good luck with your fundamentals.

#149 3s on 09.11.17 at 9:10 pm

“In other words, the nurse lobsters want the doctor lobsters to be salaried just like them”

Surely you mean taxed just like them? i.e. the same rules?

Did you know that in most countries Politicians pay almost NO tax? Why don’t you start with that…or is it not PC ;)

#150 Wrk.dover on 09.11.17 at 9:12 pm

Last post this week…detox?

#151 Habbit on 09.11.17 at 9:14 pm

As society gets wealthier people have less and less children, and the cost of health care and entertainment goes up and up. That’s how it currently works eh. Folks talk of the professional people not having pensions. This blog keeps informing us few people do have work pensions. Most are making 40k a year with some paid holidays and very marginal benefits package. True eh. Having said that let’s not unreasonably tax OUR docs and all the rest of them. They’re working their tails off and provide so many with meaningful work. Be fair just saying eh

#152 Old Salt on 09.11.17 at 9:17 pm

Didn’t the Romans identify that for democracy to work you needed to have educated people?

As for small business people being ‘rich’, it isn’t so. My wife is incorporated as a software developer. Half her clients are US based so she brings money into the country, that yes, we spend here supporting the Canadian Economy. After accounting fees, liability insurance, legal contract review fees she makes less than she would if she took a job down the street. No steady paycheque, no benefits, no stat holidays, no RRSP matching plan. She likes what she does and for now its worth it.

Adding more taxes to the corporation will only make the salary job that much more lucrative and then some lesser qualified software dev will be out of their steady paycheque because she’s better and faster than they are…..

#153 OttawaMike on 09.11.17 at 9:17 pm

I’m a sole proprietor and there are still other tax perks to me without incorporating. Can’t the docs still write off all the business expenses such as salaried staff, offices, vandalism and floods?

Pretty soon this blog will have a letter from somebody blaming climate change and Hepatitis on the federal tax changes.

#154 MPAC on 09.11.17 at 9:17 pm

Give this topic a rest Garth!

Geez…

#155 raisemyrent on 09.11.17 at 9:20 pm

What are nurses if not unionised trades persons?
This country gives pharmacists (basically retail clerks), nurses, and other paramedicals too much credit. Because of the shortage of doctors, who are now in the crosshairs.
Good job everyone. Power of the people/union vote

#156 IT Contractor on 09.11.17 at 9:28 pm

Let’s use real facts.

I’m an independent IT contractor, incorporated.

I get most of my positions through recruiters, and companies that hire contractors are often large corporate firms like banks and government bodies.

I charge $65/hour… if I work 48/weeks a year, I make about $130K/year. EXCEPT, over the last 10 years, I’ve only averaged about $95K/year. I don’t get sick days, no stat holidays, no training days, no EI for in-between jobs, etc..

Yet, my full-time time market value is about $110K/year + bonus + benefits + all the extras = $130K.

In other words, I get paid less. But I did the math, if I incorporate, it would be approximately financially the same after-tax. (Don’t forget, incorporating has additional costs, so its not just 130K-95K as the difference)

So why incorporate? Three reasons.

1. The hiring banks and government firms and recruiting companies demand it. It protects them from HR legal issues, such as employee vs contractor, with EI, CPP, etc rules. Contractors can be let go with no notice. (it’s happened to me more than once when a project got cancelled).

2. Spread out my earnings to level personal salary between good years and bad

3. Retirement vehicle. That’s right – I do use the corporation because it is tax advantageous.

My total compensation package includes this in the equation decision making. There’s nothing wrong with that.

These tax changes that Trudeau is introducing are huge.

And make no mistake – government bodies are one of my biggest hires in the last decade. Why? It’s because we IT consultants are CHEAPER and more flexible. They don’t have to keep a full-time staff, paying them EI, CPP, vacation pay, severance packages, etc. Let’s not even talk pensions.

So, everyone should win right? I make the same as a full-time counter part. I save money for big firms, including government bodies, which saves tax payer dollars?

And so why is this not fair?

So here I am, with all other small business owners, making far less than the $150K/year, who is going to feel crushing changes.

Will I raise my fees?
Will I look for a full-time job now?
Will I just suck it up, and calls this a 10K/year tax grab?

But the worst part, reading these comments, is trolls calling me rich and not paying my fair share.

Oh, and before you say I’m not a real business, let me also state that in the beginning, I tried, but failed, to grow my company into a larger consulting company with partners and employees. But the risk/reward wasn’t there, and I gave up that effort. So I definitely sympathize with other small business owners who have employees. These changes just make it that much harder to create jobs.

#157 David on 09.11.17 at 9:33 pm

The real issue is the double taxation of income earned on retained earnings in a corporation. That is the result of the changes and it’s wrong and will destroy the retirement planning of many Canadians. And the rhetoric of the Liberals has been disgraceful. We are going to see an exodus of younger doctors, 100%.

#158 Leo Trollstoy on 09.11.17 at 9:35 pm

Wage slaves are angry tonight

Stop stirring the pot!

#159 Geeze on 09.11.17 at 9:36 pm

Yesterday bashing dentists, today bashing MDs… I’m amazed at the jealousy, different points of view… it’s all a little much. T2 is a disaster… congrats to him on further dividing our country.. and thanks for voting him in people. :(

#160 Fuzzy Camel on 09.11.17 at 9:36 pm

Expect a steep drop in new home permits in about 4-6 months. Next year the slow down will hit new homes. Lots of new houses sitting empty with for sale signs out front.

The builders I deal with, say about 25% of their buyers now owe $60k+ each in late fees because the banks reassessed the house much lower than what they paid, and they don’t have the dough to close. Ruh roh.

Also, 4 builders now are sitting on serviced land, but zero sales of new homes. That’s a spicy meatball, land was expensive, and they usually have to leverage the land to a Mobbed up company like Con Drain to put in the subdivision services.

Next year will be slower. The good news? Well, the builders still have a lot of inventory that was sold 1-2 years ago to finish off, so still lots of construction jobs for now. But I wouldn’t go out and get in a lot of debt right not.

#161 ImGonnaBeSick on 09.11.17 at 9:40 pm

Yuck… anyone that is for these changes is just gross. You want to pay “less tax”, go ahead, start a business you bunch of big mouth employees. 50% fail, but you all sound like you’ve got it figured out. Just wait until you find out that paying out dividends works out less in your favour than paying yourself a salary… then pay the accountants a couple grand a year, then submit earnings and HST to the government quarterly. Dont forget liability insurance… Oh, and paying both the employee and employer portions of CPP if you do pay yourself a salary instead… You need a loan from the bank? Good luck… You employees are so full of sh!t when you pretend that you know anything. I would love to not have to submit your taxes for you… and stick you with the tax bill in April… see if any one of you would be able to pay it.

#162 BobC on 09.11.17 at 9:41 pm

One day people will realize that corporations don’t pay taxes, they collect them.
What happens at the pump when they raise taxes on gasoline? What about on your utility bills? What if they added $10 a tire tax and you needed a new set?
People need to learn to think.

#163 Scary thought on 09.11.17 at 9:42 pm

Argo on 09.11.17 at 6:11 pm

Sure communism much?, why don’t you just move to Cuba where everyone makes the same $ regardless of education and relevance to society.

#164 S on 09.11.17 at 9:50 pm

#102 MF on 09.11.17 at 8:03 pm

Complain? I think you missed the gist of my point.
The individuals who lost five weeks of work a year each are complaining since they are now forced to join the ranks of the multiple job holders that you mention, the patients have been complaining for years about long wait times, now they might really have a reason to, the under-serviced communities have been complaining, now they will probably complain more.
Docs, they’ll be OK. Didn’t I say they’ll deal with this?
But if you think they’ll slave around the clock for less over all pay (because no benefits, no pension plan, no reasonable limit to working hours) than your MP or even the folks who run your local health authority then, I am only guessing, you may be dreaming. Multiple physicians I personally know have already declared their intention to slow down. Who wants to work that sixteenth hour of the day for a fraction of pay they got for their first hour?
Like I said, you want to pay them as employees then expect exactly that kind of performance and work ethic.
No less and no more.

#165 604renter on 09.11.17 at 9:52 pm

Wow. Lots of comments hard to read here. Some give me hope

I disagree that nurses go home and sleep while doctors dont. This is a silly statement for a doctor to make. I am one so I can say that few doctors think this way. Canadians should all recognize and be grateful for the amazing people in health professions. It really is incredible to see all the dedicated resp techs, the social workers, PT’s, OT’s, LPN’s, lab personnel etc who bust their asses and give it their all. Kudos to them all.

I will also say however that the environment for physicians is a tough one. Personally, I invested 16 years of work to begin practising. That is a lot of 80 to over 100 hour work weeks. I have been assaulted, threatened, and abused by patients. I work about 60 hours a week now. When I get home I have little left to give. Medicine is increasingly complex every day. Pressure is placed on the physician to control costs, and then we are criticized for missing rare diagnoses. I was maliciously sued by one person. That took eight years off my life. During that time it was like the sword of Damocles hanging over me

I regularly work overtime. I dont get paid for that. I do it for the patient. I get no sick time, no vacation, no matching retirement, got no family leave. I teach students and am paid a pittance. I cant count how many times i have missed a meal. Many days i go an entire day without a freaking bathroom break

I love my job but it is all becoming too much. Every time I turn around someone is attacking. The tax reform issue is the final straw. I WILL leave. And I dont wish the supposed masses of foreign grads upon any patient. Some are fine – and many are not. Mark my words. Figuring out which are which is beyond complex. That is the reason it is tightly regulated.

After all the dedicated service and sacrifice there has to be some breaks. A lot of the commentary here has made me feel devalued and worth less.

To my many wonderful patients who have brought me to tears with their thanks and gratitude. You have made me a proud physician. I know you are the majority

#166 pam on 09.11.17 at 9:53 pm

#157 Fuzzy Camel

Fuzzy Camel keep the inside scoop on the development industry in the GTA coming (if you can). Very interesting stuff.

#167 Ian on 09.11.17 at 9:55 pm

Solid presentation on Marketwatch on how the US got to 20t in debt:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-the-us-got-to-20-trillion-in-debt-2017-03-30

#168 mathman on 09.11.17 at 9:58 pm

what many of the commenters fail to understand is that Dr’s in Canada are the top, hardest working students. They don’t see real income till they are pushing 30, and they do something that almost no one else does from a public service perspective.

Income is a function of two things, scarcity of skill and the amount of people you help.

For those that are anti- incorp – call me when your Dr. f’s off to the US or can’t be bother to work anymore. Let me know how that search for a good dr. is going.

I’m going to rename our country sheep with head in the Sanada.

Math

#169 mathman on 09.11.17 at 10:03 pm

Without the opportunity to earn (reward) there is no incentive to take risk.

Please que the recruting firms and their pitches to all of the MD Specialists in the GTA and or surrounding areas.

Before these changes already had two friends skip town – both specialists (North Carolina and Atlanta) 2X the money and 1/3rd the cost of living. The only people that loose in that decision are all the T2 voters who have to wait 4-5 months, now maybe 6 to see that specialist.

The sheep will never understand the knock on effects of this.

Math

#170 Ian on 09.11.17 at 10:09 pm

#153 IT Contractor

By far my favourite post I have seen on here about this topic, as it’s most similar to my business.

Much like doctors being told by provincial governments to incorporate, the Feds ALSO wanted a lot of their work done by contractors! So they’re telling us to incorporate to save all liability, benefits, vacation, disability insurance etc, THEN screw us by taxing retained earnings?!!? I mostly have financial companies as my clients here in Toronto. Taxing retained earnings literally breaks every concept about corporations that ever existed. It is literally the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard the Liberals say, and there’s lots of competition for that prize.

Morneau happens to be my MP here in Toronto Centre (hard for me to be solid Blue downtown, I can tell you). I have not written him as yet, as let’s be honest: the Liberals never give a toss about any ‘consultation period’. Look at Ontario. They had the last budget at the printers while they were still ‘out on the road listening to people’. It’s just for show.

Much like the Liberal position on every other topic, they have it exactly backwards. Reduce T4 tax rates, introduce a flat income tax, stop racking up $30+ billion deficits with nothing to show for it. Instead, they want bigger and bigger government, more and more revenue. That’s another point: the revenue from this will be peanuts, and their calculations are wrong as if they think people won’t change their behaviour because of this, they’re living in fantasyland.

PLEASE tell me we can get rid of these idiots in 2019. I will seriously look into going to the US…getting lots of interest from Monster already.

#171 I'm stupid on 09.11.17 at 10:10 pm

#157 Fuzzy Camel

I agree, I’ve had 2 projects “postponed” until next year. Meaning the sales weren’t there, over 500 house sites with multiple builders on each site. I’ve spoken to builders who are dealing with buyers not closing deals, offering employees huge discounts to buy those homes. They’re defiantly scared, taking defensive positions. I think a lot of small builders that leveraged up will go bankrupt, flippers and speculators too. I’ve prepared for a 5 year slow down but who knows.

#172 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.11.17 at 10:17 pm

My dentist employes 5 dental hygienists.
A clean-up is 1 hour, and the bill is 200.
Every second clean-up the Dr. shows up for a 2 minute checkup.
With all his masks, I don’t even know what he looks like.
Did you know that dental floss is ineffective, but they still insist on using it.
And scold you when you object.
But, then they give you a cheap tooth brush.
Next sucker.

#173 joblo on 09.11.17 at 10:19 pm

Starve the Beast, go full hobo.

#174 Dave on 09.11.17 at 10:19 pm

As an avid reader of this blog I have not felt compelled to write on this blog until today. Garth continue to educate your followers on economics, tax and investing. Its admirable and I appreciate information on the WWW that isn’t false news (plus your love for dogs, bonus points). As a child of parents that owned a small business I first hand witnessed how hard owners work (without out health benefits and sick days, no days off). I do believe they need tax benefits that helps them with saving for pensions and vacations (everyone needs quality of life) As a Registered Nurse I do get benefits, pension and sick time/vacation. I understand that government pensions are a rare benefit to come by, I feel very fortunate to have one.

I do feel disappointed that you let Maxim speak his anger towards all Registered Nurses in Canada (298,743 estimate) because CNA with 17,500 pledged their support to the tax reform.
Maxim is angry and reaching at best with his points.
1. If a nurse makes a medication error they get reprimanded by their college and could get fired if harm is caused. Yes Doctors are notified about the mistake but they do go home and residents usually do the work (while they get paid, and maybe paged). What about all those orders nurses catch as an error by the MD? Your welcome?
2. I see RNs get injured at work all the time, I think their spouses worry more. Very rare doctors get injured as its always the RN there 24/7
3. We all know Doctors will over bill. Seen the patient for 5 minutes billed 30 minutes
4. I believe all Doctors should release how much their salaries are because everyone else that is paid with tax dollars does
Thanks for popping my cherry Maxim, I got a strong feeling you don’t treat RNs with respect at your work. Very disappointing

#175 NoName on 09.11.17 at 10:20 pm

@Flop

here is one from 2007.
https://youtu.be/SkUnemSg3dg
but one i inquired that is more recent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kuoFGgj8s

#176 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.11.17 at 10:22 pm

Spent two days in hospital lately.
Never saw a doctor.
Only nurses busy like crazy.

#177 KLNR on 09.11.17 at 10:22 pm

#103 Johnathan on 09.11.17 at 8:04 pm

closing a tax loophole doesn’t lead to communism lol

and thanks for laugh maxim.
i’m sure you’re a real treat to be around. poor nurses

#178 Canada on 09.11.17 at 10:22 pm

just read the responses in this comment section

Canada is a socialist country. A country that WILL NEVER be a leading country. Policies harm entrepreneurial spirit. Thankfully, geography saves our ass– next to USA. Our planets economic giant…and we get military protection too

at least we got hockey, eh?

#179 B748i builder on 09.11.17 at 10:26 pm

I lean well to the right. Would never vote Lib or JT. But, I don’t understand the position against this loophole closure? I want a lean govt and lower taxes. I’ve accepted I won’t get that. But, Why on earth should should market-driven salaries be taxed differently? We should all play by the same tax rules. Let the market decide whether this tax closure results is offset by higher revenues/gross income for those affected.

#180 Cowtown Cowboy on 09.11.17 at 10:28 pm

Welcome to Canuckistan…

As the IT consultant dude ive worked in both the private and public sectors. I wonder if it’s just a coincidence that the public workers have the highest rate of absenteeism??? I guess when you have 0 accountability and 0 bottom line to worry about, why bother going to work at all…but I’ve seen the light Garth, no more busting my ass looking for new contracts, working months and months straight without a day off, as you never know when your next contract will come…nope, no more of that for me, I’ll take my $150-$200k/yr middle mgmt job and start planning my next paid vacation !! If you cant beat em, join em…

This country is going down fast

#181 Joe Schmoe on 09.11.17 at 10:29 pm

Fair taxation would be paying for what you use.

Think of all the crying if that was the “tax fairness plan”.

They supporters of this tax can’t pay for themselves. Or really want to.

#182 Hotdogs from Heaven on 09.11.17 at 10:33 pm

I also want T2 and Bill to end the concept of family trusts that they both lived off of for most of their pampered, coddled lives.

And it would be nice if the MPs and Senators all had to pay as much the same proportion for their pensions as anyone else in the public service instead of getting $25 of benefits for every $1 the put in.

#183 Spenditall on 09.11.17 at 10:35 pm

Some lobsters are more equal than others….

#184 PARKSVILLE SENIOR on 09.11.17 at 10:38 pm

So you are surprised that the worker bees have trouble sympathizing with the entitled Drs wife who had to miss her pedicure because hubby couldn’t get away to take Johnny to violin lessons.

My heart pumps pure piss in sympathy!

#185 Spock on 09.11.17 at 10:41 pm

All the clowns shouting “First” are probably employees.

If we switch to a system where each person got benefits depending on the amount of taxes paid, we would see a very different tone in the comments.

Reality is that a lot of tax revenue comes from very few people.

The folks here jealous of others because they are making more (or perceived as making more) need to look in the mirror and try to improve yourself instead of trying to bring others down. Then again, you are exactly the clowns that T2 is looking for come elections.

#186 Norrie McCallum on 09.11.17 at 10:45 pm

Is this passive revenge Nurses are getting on their docs for being a little rude and bossy all these years?

#187 Smoking Man on 09.11.17 at 10:45 pm

#143 Bottoms_Up on 09.11.17 at 9:03 pm
So because a doctor or business owner decides to pursue a career with all that risk, that should allow them to skirt paying a fair tax rate on wages?
…..

Your a complete idiot. We should pay no more than 10% all that’s needed to run shit. Anything above that goes into filthy hands.

Am I the only one with a brain on this blog for heaven sake.

And I pissed out of my mind when I post.

You buggers are doomed.

#188 viorelli on 09.11.17 at 10:53 pm

Mr. Zhang was a good productive citizen (well a PR) in Canada, employed 5 people in his Richmond, BC warehouse, paid taxes, rent, wages, CPP, EI, suppliers, bought a house, sent his kids to college and uni, bought cars, provided jobs to realtors, insurance brokers, renovators, nanny, plumber, dentist, golf instructor, home cleaner, auto mechanic (many of whom are also incorporated). Now the govt wants to limit his ambitions in this country and take their “fair share”. He risked his savings, long hours, sleep, no benefits, no pension, no sick days, no OT pay. So now Mr. Zhang says: F..Off! His business is in Taipei (as he got global exposure now), 5 people on the street looking for work, and don’t forget all the economic output lost due to his departure from our beloved Canada! They all lost a client who pays them for numerous services. Asia gains, this country with its sociopathic communists loses the much needed dollars. In another decade or slightly more you will be digging through garbage bins, just like they do in Venesuela, the smart and hard working will still employ others, drive nice cars, and get their services done somewhere else and you will not be a part of that cycle. Mr. Zhang was smart to stay a global citizen.

#189 Smoking Man on 09.11.17 at 10:54 pm

All you idiots clapping your hands to the dr tax
Come to my dark side. Let’s not pay any tax at all.

Nurses look how much they take off your check. Come on damb it. Time for a full on tax revolt. T2 gives billions away. Snap out of your programing.

Every one is getting bent over.

#190 The Loonie Doctor on 09.11.17 at 10:56 pm

The nurses I know are not in agreement with this CNA statement and are embarrassed by it. Just look at the CNA facebook page for comments by frontline nurses. The CNA leadership may have overstepped with their personal opinions on this one. It is unfortunate that they are perpetuating the divide and conquer strategy. I also think that nurses are professional and we should not stoop to the CNA level by taking shots at them. I do empathize with why Maxim did so. Docs are human and the last few years with government relations have been very demoralizing.

The simplicity of how the government is painting a complex situation is appealing and many people won’t think beyond that. I think that they are intermixing equal and fair. They are not the same. A low income person and a high income person paying the same percentage tax would be equal, but is it fair? The top few percentage income earners (people generally EARN their income) pay over half the tax collected by CRA – that definitely is not equal – is it fair? The answers are very subjective.

This attack on professionals and successful small businesses is an easy sell to the general public and will almost certainly come to pass. The lobster analogy is alive and well on this blog and likely reflects the voter base – these politicians know their audience. It is unfortunate that the unintented consequences of simplistic solutions to complex issues won’t become apparent until after the fact.

A couple things that I see.

Doctors are human and weigh the cost and benefits of working just like anyone else. We do care, we do love our jobs (I do) – it is a privileged position. However, do I love it more doing it 80h/wk or 40h/wk or 30h/wk? More hours come at the cost of time with my family, time looking after my own health, and time for my other interests. More hours come with the benefit of more money, the feeling of contributing, and using my skills. If earning more simply results in dimishing returns (in this case severely diminished), then it is not worth working more once you have taken care of your living expenses and saving for retirement and done enough good work to feel fulfilled. With these changes on top of the other tax increases and provincial fee clawbacks, that fulcrum is rapidly shifting. Many will start to spend less so they can hit that need to work threshold with less work and then simply work less. There are many workaholic docs, but worklife balance has become a much stronger mantra over the past decade. For me, I will just spend less and work less. I already started this approach with the last tax grab and my family and I are happier. If many doctors do this, and I do think many are at a tipping point, then there will be less availability.

Yes, you can train more docs. There are many who would like to be doctors that don’t make the cut even though they would still be good. That takes time (6-10 years) and costs quite a bit. That lag could be painful and would likely hit a different government (brilliant strategy). You could also license some of the foreign trained doctors, but that is not the panacae either. Not all medical training in other countries is equal. I am not saying that as an arrogant Canadian doctor – I have seen it. Some are fantastic and some are horrid – you need to be very careful about evaluating and separating those groups out which is again time lagged and expensive.

At the end of all this, we may see doctors being employees like is common in other countries including the US. That will likely require a lot more doctors (making less and working less) and still cost a lot more than people realize when suddenly there is paid sick days, vacation, maternity, overtime, benefits, and pensions involved to make it “fair” relative to other public servants.

#191 Investx on 09.11.17 at 10:56 pm

Shame on the CNA.

#192 Triplenet on 09.11.17 at 11:05 pm

In 10 years your GP will be a robot.
They are already here and working diligently.
Today (and increasingly – tomorrow) your cardiologists and neurosurgeons will be guided by and overtaken by robotics.
Of course school teachers and lawyers are lined up in their sights. Can you imagine a school teacher robot that actually does know everything. Or a robotic lawyer that can instantly recall every stated and precedent setting case in infinite detail – and then print it so you can hand it to the bench and say – thats my final answer. You twit.
Stop it with your 1960’s thinking.
Evolve….. and pay your taxes – or become a robot.
Replaced.
We all will be assimilated and taxes will be removed from our mindset.
Happy thoughts….i guess
We are all destined to become one. Get with the program…..you collection of deplorables.
Imagine being on the deplorable bus….sitting next to justin. Of course its robot driven. And he’s a hologram!
Maybe a dingo ate him.
I do not approve of this message.
Staff!

#193 Jane54 on 09.11.17 at 11:05 pm

What’s the risk to becoming a dentist or doctor? Labor is artificially constrained and the fee artificially held high. Let the free market supply dentists and doctors and lower fees. Then we’ll consider if it’s a risk.

#194 Bob on 09.11.17 at 11:10 pm

Judging by the comments this evening, we obviously have the envious and jealous on one side trying to convince the others that they can’ t keep what they earned successfully…and legally.

The new Canada… where the rent seekers and consuming class shall inherit the future.

#195 Prairieboy43 on 09.11.17 at 11:11 pm

When you are lying on the Table, just before the good doc is about too operate. Doctor asks you gently, “Do you have Bitcoin”? If so relax. Otherwise get in shape, so you don’t have this dream.
PB43

#196 Javier on 09.11.17 at 11:17 pm

Hey Trudeau, liberals. Instead of raising taxes on self employed, why don’t you cut the taxes on employees? Still wouldn’t be fair buy most would be happy that way, I guess.

#197 Catalyst on 09.11.17 at 11:20 pm

This post just shows how doctors are disconnected from the rest of the working folks.

Take a manager at most companies. They work overtime all the time correcting mistakes of their staff and there is no overtime pay.

You as the doctor are making 3-4x at least everyone else and talk down on your staff (‘if they arent playing hookey’).

The basic premise is correct that everyone gets paid for their labour and work and that pay is subject to the same tax system for everyone.

#198 ArroganceOfGreatness on 09.11.17 at 11:38 pm

It’s somewhat surprising to see so many angry people out there wanting to bring down those who are more successful and make more money. But it’s not. One thing that has become quite apparent in Canada over the past few years is that there is a whole lot of stupid out there. Can’t help stupid because stupid is a full time job… there’s no such thing as part time stupid. I guess it would suck knowing you’ll never make more than 40k per year. So if that’s me, then I want the guy making 400k to pay more in taxes to try to bring him down to my embarrassingly low level of income. But that still doesn’t change the fact that I make a lousy 40k a year, or alternatively, 15k after taxes. So I’ll vote for Justin to make sure the 400k guy can only bring home 225k so I feel so much better about my chickenshit 15k. Sucks to be the 99% . Eh???

#199 Revolt on 09.11.17 at 11:46 pm

Doctors should be excluded. Everyone else shut up and pay some taxes for once. No one wants to work for someone. Everyone is thinking of ways to financial freedom by running a small business with no more worries of paying high taxes. Since everyone is running a small business now, government has to find ways to tax them. Not enough people want to work for someone else and make their boss all the money. Workers are mad they doing all the heavy lifting. It’s hard to find people willing to do all the work and then give you all the money they made while you pay no tax. That’s the small business guy who expoilts people while paying no taxes. Am I serious or trying to piss people off? How close to the truth am I?

#200 bob on 09.11.17 at 11:53 pm

I’m a small business owner, not a doctor. And I already feel the Trudeau has divided employees vs entrepreneurs, public vs private, and now, doctors vs nurses.

This is horrible and makes me sick as a Canadian, more so than the tax changes themselves.

I’m okay with paying more taxes.

But I am not okay with T2’s message. There is nothing fair about this tax change, there are many things they could do instead. Calling me a tax cheat employing tax loopholes is an insult.

So yeah, I’m siding with the doctors, because the CNA position is T2 and Morneau’s position. It’s wrong materially impacts me, both in real dollars and personal feelings.

So until the CNA retracts their position, I’m sorry nurses, they represent all nurses. Please get your executives to apologize and acknowledge their personal error.

I do respect doctors, nurses, and all health care professionals for the work they do. I do hope we can all work together.

And tell Trudeau and Morneau they are wrong!

#201 slick on 09.11.17 at 11:53 pm

it’s funny how the liberal, tax the rich, supporters have no ambition to hang out their own shingle and take advantage of the tax ‘loopholes’.
I do think that there is an ulterior motive at pplay.
Also funny that no one mentions the tax-free portion of an MP’s wage. Does their office costs, living and travel expenses come out of their paycheck?
How about a 73% tax on these 2 trust fund babies resources?
There is one big problem and that is GOVERNMENT OVERSPENDING.
mic drop

#202 Smoking Man on 09.11.17 at 11:53 pm

When fentonall kills your kid. Don’t say I didn’t warn you. Robots and share holders votes.

Good tune for the finial service. God save them.

https://youtu.be/2zjLBWnZGTU

#203 A doctor's perspective on 09.11.17 at 11:57 pm

I am an active practicing physician that works both in US and Canada.
I find Maxim’s letter over the top and frankly, annoying. Pitiful and exaggerated actually.
The tax breaks that the doctors (including me as I have a corporation) including income sprinkling and capital gains are wonderful, and it is not an entitlement. I think it is unfair compared to other salaried Canadian and even to my salaried doctor colleagues. It is an unfair advantage at the end of the day.

I think the model for physician compensation in Canada should be a UK based model where doctors are salaried (with less money in hand) but with pensions and benefits.

#204 Harold on 09.11.17 at 11:58 pm

Re: #189 Triplenet
Unfortunately, we Canucks will not benefit from Robotics because the Docs will still charge the “fee per procedure” whether the work was done by a robot or by a doctor. Just look at the highest billers; the Opthamologists who do over 10 times the number of cataracts per day than they did several years ago because of technology. They still bill taxpayers the same per cataract even though they can now do over 10 times as many using high tech/ When the OMA agreed to allow the Government to modernize the fee for service schedule, their leadership got booted out by a gang of high-billers.

#205 acdel on 09.12.17 at 12:01 am

Fortunately I have been taken care of with great expertise when I have been in the hospital to a cedrtain extent.

My old employee explained to me on how her best friend nurse use to take advantage of overtime arranged with her peers to take sick time off so that her peers as well as her could get the overtime; everybody knows this and yet nothing is done about this????????
T2 loves this kind of stuff for votes and nothing else!!!!

#206 Ian on 09.12.17 at 12:06 am

BoC now in a war of words with economists!! Interesting…

Bank of Canada Rebuts BMO Charge of `Epic Fail’ on Communications

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-11/bank-of-canada-defends-communications-before-interest-rate-rise

#207 Peter on 09.12.17 at 12:10 am

None of the self-serving “arguments” from this doctor or any other address the issue. Why should a doctor earning $300K who incorporates pay less tax than one earing $300K who does not? They both had the same eduction, took the same risks, work the same hours, have the same business costs, and so on.

Here’s the Globe and Mail explaining this far better than I can: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/globe-editorial-on-small-business-taxes-the-liberals-are-mostly-right-in-theory/article36215634/

In case the Globe’s too much of a left-wing rag for you, here’s Andrew Coyne explaining the same thing in the National Post: http://nationalpost.com/news/andrew-coyne-the-tax-system-cant-possibly-do-what-people-want-it-to-do

#208 Smoking Man on 09.12.17 at 12:13 am

Phase 2 addiction services.

Goggle it if you have a loved one who’s been raped by the machine and a drug addict. Don’t be shy of the fear of judgement, . It’s my kids company. He save ratio is 3 to 1.

Rather shitty but if you don’t help for your kids. There going to die.

Ironic sort of dad is a raging lush. I’m disuplind. 9pm to midnight for creative inspiration.

Fental kills. My name is JD Stoj. My sons name is Kyle Stojsin. FInd him. He will save your kid even if you don’t a cent.

I did some thing right.

#209 Joanne on 09.12.17 at 12:13 am

I made a comment earlier about a report that doctors comps was up 30% in a decade. Someone responded about how that’s nothing… sort of suggested I was stupid for finding that impressive. I don’t normally leave comments and had assumed people would click the link to the article and see that doctors pay is up 30% in a decade in constant dollars. That doesn’t mean 100k in the year 2000 is ~130k in the year 2010. It means that it it’s 30% higher in addition to inflation.

I just want people to understand that doctors don’t take on risk. They have chosen a professional that guarantees employment. And they have very attractive pay in Canada, yet they have preferential tax treatment. It’s extremely unfair.

My husband and I are under 35 and successful. We pay over 200k in taxes a year and enjoy reading this pathetic blog. We work in demanding jobs. We don’t take sick days, work more hours than a doctor, barely ever take vacation, might be fired if we rub someone the wrong way (and would 100% be fired if we made a mistake!). Yes, doctors save lives and are nice people. I am friends with a few of them… But society acts like they are holy. How many lives are saved by the researchers who create the medicines we take (btw, researchers don’t even make six figures). How many lives are saved when an engineer designs a successful safety system in an industrial plant?

The fact is, there is a hell of a lot of money at stake if these tax changes take effect. Drs have a very well funded lobby group working to make sure people don’t see what is really going on. Income is income. We should treat income equally. It doesn’t matter that doctors save lives, not when it comes to our taxes.

End rant.

#210 Cuba_Has_The_Solution on 09.12.17 at 12:17 am

Make all Canadian doctors employees of the state, like in Cuba. Cut the salary to a flat $75K for a GP and $85K for a Specialist.

Increase the number of doctors in Canada by 400%.

Everyone can work a 30hour week. 6 hours a day.

See each patient a little longer and just enjoy life.

End of Story. No more whining from the docs.

#211 Cuba_Has_The_Solution on 09.12.17 at 12:19 am

Garth, you need not fear a state funded proctologist. Just ask for extra lube, a good magazine, and enjoy.

#212 Class Warfare on 09.12.17 at 12:21 am

Wow, I can’t believe all of the doctor and business owner bashing going on tonight. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, or in this case consequences. Bash the small business person all you want, but your anger and envy will just result in higher prices for goods and services paid for by you and everyone else. Guess who really wins when taxes are applied to higher prices, dumbasses.

M45BC

#213 Doctor doctor on 09.12.17 at 12:30 am

the answer is clearly more doctors. We restrict the amount of doctors – supply and demand issue. Look at Cuba.

#214 mousey on 09.12.17 at 12:36 am

After my letter to my MP, received invite to round table at constituency office. Meeting is Wednesday morning. I’m going with my law partner and am prepared to listen and will provide honest and polite feed back. If it turns out to be a one sided ad campaign, I’ll tell my MP to get stuffed and I’ll leave. The cynic in me says all MP’s attending the Kelowna retreat were told to have these round tables. Update to follow.

#215 Smoking Man on 09.12.17 at 12:42 am

In the south visiting graves of my hero’s.
Wish I could play gittar. Miss spelt words is all I have.

https://youtu.be/cu7gafphe9M

#216 Medical Marijuana Association on 09.12.17 at 12:48 am

Medical marijuana will solve all your health concerns.
Bad back? smoke a joint
Lump on the side of your neck? smoke a joint and forget about it
Abdominal pains that won’t go away? smoke a joint and turn on the telly

T2 marijuana policy has been coordinated to coincide with an expected doctor revolt by next summer. Less docs, more weed, happy voters

#217 GR Guy - Inside the BC Budget on 09.12.17 at 12:55 am

#145 Blacksheep on 09.11.17 at 9:08 pm
YVR # 90,

“Bc Budget by NDP today.”

“They basically abandoned their housing platform. They are going to lose next election big time. Maybe on purpose?”
———————————
The system, simply sat the newbies down and told them how things, actually worked.

I keep saying it….

“Don’t bet against the system.”

Good luck with your fundamentals.
——–

As an insider that attended the budget lock-up, I can tell you that the NDP commitments on housing announced today were only the 1st step – the rest coming in the fall.

The finance minister explicitly stated in her speech that they would be tackling speculation, closing loopholes, and address money laundering in real estate. Those measures will come in the Fall.

The media was relentless in making the minister commit to the renter’s rebate (which is negligible in terms of impact) versus tackling speculation. And the Minister committed over and over again. The media will continue to hold their feet to the fire – I think in part because the younger media are tired of being priced out themselves and are finally generating the stories (think Sam Cooper).

The real estate, building, and development industry stakeholders at the lock-up are all very nervous and breathed a temporary sigh of relief that the demand side of house was not addressed yet. Yes, they have been meeting with the NDP even before they officially took power as they saw the writing on the wall.

The finance minister and budget document all cited rising interest rates and the pending ‘mortgage changes’ (B20) as putting pressure on prices. The government has even projected less revenue from real estate in the coming years. And the minister talked of the dangers of building an economy built on RE speculation as has been done the last 16 years. So, they see the writing on the wall.

I think everyone was disappointed that they did not address speculation, foreign buyers, and eliminate the home buyers program in the budget – yet.

I think the NDP is walking a fine line between letting the market depress from rate hikes and mortgage rule changes and having to follow-through on electoral promises.

And I do not think that they will announce in advance pending changes like Ontario did when its time to put measures in place, but rather implement right away to close any potential loopholes.

The reality, and they know it, is that they secured the lower mainland votes by promising housing measures. If they do not deliver soon, that base of support will be gone. Not a good situation to be in when you still don’t have the best number situation despite the NDP-Green party agreement.

#218 cmj on 09.12.17 at 12:56 am

I’ve followed this blog for a long time and occasionally share my opinions. Tonight I am quite discouraged on the number of negative comments about this tax our federal government is trying to endorse. whether it is applied to doctors, farmers, any small business, it is all smoke and mirrors. Many of you with the negative comments are entrenched in your personal stories of not being able to make enough. We all have opportunities and desires it succeed. However, it takes a strong work ethic and a deep commitment to be successful. Often it requires failure and then having the courage to try once again to work toward a long range goal. All these people that are going to have tax changes are employing nearly 50% of our workforce. I’ll repeat that. nearly 50% of our workforce.
I value this blog because we all become aware of issues more deeply. I have also taken the responsibility to email Bill my concerns about this new taxation to these supposedly “rich” professionals/entrepreneurs.

#219 Sydneysider on 09.12.17 at 1:00 am

Today a lady in the parking lot at the Vancouver Rupert Superstore asked if she could return my cart, because she was hungry and needed the dollar deposit for food. There seems to be a little village of homeless people springing up there, perhaps encouraged by many weeks without rain.

After this depressing encounter, it is good to read the views of people who have more serious worries.

#220 Smoking Man on 09.12.17 at 1:04 am

Your head floppef on a bar. Not knowing were concourses will find you.
You hear this tune. The ordinal.

You just want to put flowers on that grave.
I did it today. Off the bucket list.

https://youtu.be/wA34TVgwU7s

#221 Silver on 09.12.17 at 1:12 am

funny how all the major groups applauding this seem’s to be made up of tax dependent government employees… who are dependent on tax increases for their raise’s and benefits…
\
you know as a business man i don’t even know where to begin.
this is so beyond stupid as to tax my a..hole seriously.

but what do you expect from someone who has always been a welfare drama queen trust fund baby… and who has never had a real job other than his selfie status.

unless you have owned a business and actually been liable for your actions you have no idea what has been done to this country by T2 with this ill conceived bit of social racism…
my business has paid 100,000’s of thousand over the years in property education tax’s.
well above the snowflake level….
… supporting your entitled kids educations…
i intend to do a lot less business here now.
hope you can cover the loss… with your no risk labor jobs

so snowflakes laugh and have your false morale high ground for now… the best is yet to come..

every business man i have talked to is going to reduce their output now… reduce services and lay off as many of employees as they can… to reduce their income.

no point in making more investment.

#222 Jesse on 09.12.17 at 1:43 am

Boo hoo Dr.Maxim….Real class act trying to turn everyone against Nurses who do twice as much work as you and save your ass and your patients every other day. I wish the Nurses who work alongside you could read this and hold you accountable for your comments. Self righteous p.o.s

#223 Smoking Man on 09.12.17 at 1:43 am

What we all try to be.

https://youtu.be/9muzyOd4Lh8

#224 Midnights on 09.12.17 at 1:46 am

Good read…
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/foreign-exchange/usd/am-i-certain-about-the-strong-dollar/

#225 Yuus bin Haad on 09.12.17 at 2:05 am

Tax laws as “loopholes”? How about CO2 as “pollution”?

#226 Keith on 09.12.17 at 2:12 am

Tax cuts to grow the economy, with the benefits of higher employment, better wages, increase revenue to the government to pay for our social services.

Fail.

Make Canada attractive to foreign investment, benefits see above.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/refugees-pay-more-income-tax-than-millionaire-investor-immigrants-1.2984982

Massive fail.

If tax cuts had created widespread economic benefits in Canada, no one would agree with the Trudeau/Morneau policy. It’s not the politics of envy. It’s the politics of those who have been shut out of participating in wage growth for three decades or more, while a few got rich.

The economy grew faster under 90% top marginal tax rates, and unemployment was lower. Look it up.

#227 Bloke in Olde England on 09.12.17 at 3:24 am

Beware, Canada… you could end up with a centrally-planned bureaucratic nightmare like the NHS over here. Staffed by salaried and pensioned Trots, in one city just 40 km from me the waiting time for a (general practitioner) doctor’s appointment is currently running at 4 weeks. God help you if you need an operation.

All the hospitals in my area are run by a thing called a Health Trust. All have way overspent their budgets and are by any reasonable measure, insolvent. They’ve been put into what’s termed “special measures” because of financial mismanagement and issues of core competence (such as persistent outbreaks of Hospital-Acquired Infections, and emergency patients being left in ambulances outside for hours while the hospital tries to find a bed for them).

Because centralised planning has failed within the Health Trust, the cure is – naturally – *more* centralised planning but this time involving experts who are probably in London somewhere. A long way away.

Socialise your medicine! Employ your doctors! Pay them a grade-defined salary! It’s only fair, don’cha know? You too can enjoy the fruits of having your very own “Envy of the World” serving your needs!

#228 Bloke in Olde England on 09.12.17 at 3:25 am

Beware, Canada… you could end up with a centrally-planned bureaucratic nightmare like the NHS over here. Staffed by salaried and pensioned Trots, in one city just 40 km from me the waiting time for a (general practitioner) doctor’s appointment is currently running at 4 weeks. God help you if you need an operation.

All the hospitals in my area are run by a thing called a Health Trust. All have way overspent their budgets and are by any reasonable measure, insolvent. They’ve been put into what’s termed “special measures” because of financial mismanagement and issues of core competence (such as persistent outbreaks of Hospital-Acquired Infections, and emergency patients being left in ambulances outside for hours while the hospital tries to find a bed for them).

Because centralised planning has failed within the Health Trust, the cure is – naturally – *more* centralised planning but this time involving experts who are probably in London somewhere. A long way away.

Socialise your medicine! Employ your doctors! Pay them a grade-defined salary! It’s only fair, don’cha know? You too can enjoy the fruits of having your very own “Envy of the World” serving your needs!

#229 BillbBob on 09.12.17 at 3:39 am

So glad to be a global citizen. Canada is a nice place to visit in summer, and that’s it.

Partner is from the Czech Republic. A country that knows a thing or two about hardship and tyranny, in the last century having endured both the Nazis and the Commies. More importantly – survived them both. Canada has suffered NOTHING in comparison.

She and her family listen with great interest to some of the political shenanigans going on in Canada. They are polite, but when the wine flows a bit they literally cannot believe the path Canada is being taken down. The simply cannot comprehend why anyone would choose to pursue such evil, failed philosophy. Been there, done that.

They still have letters from the government demanding her great-grandfather relinquish the family farm to the state. For the “greater good”, of course. Just making sure everyone contributed their “fair share”. It was phrased in EXACTLY the same terms as this cynical being rammed through by Morneau and Trudeau. Those “rich” farmers need to pay!

In her family, they tried to resist and refused to cede the property – the farm had been in the family for generations. So the state imposed an impossibly high milk quota they were required to contribute annually to the state. But after years of crop failure they couldn’t provide the livestock with enough nutrition to produce enough milk. The old letters document their pleading for leniency. So the state simply confiscated the farm. The never did receive it back after the fall of the former USSR.

This is exactly the tactic being used by the Liberals. Move the goalposts. Trumpet a sham consultation period. With the stroke of a pen, make what was legal, illegal. Make law-abiding citizens, criminals. And the masses cheer.

At first.

It’s disgusting, and horrifyingly, tiresomely, predictable.

It isn’t about doctors or some specific amount of money. It’s about a mindset. When I see someone I perceive to be doing better than myself, and desire to have what they have, I immediately start to analyze what I must do to achieve the same. I don’t start thinking about how I can take away the other person’s.

Why is this becoming the standard in Canada?

The government is playing you for fools. Distracting from their massive, wasteful overspending – the true problem – by playing to the basic instincts of greed and jealousy. Canada has it’s very own “dog-whistle” politics, make no mistake. And the simple-minded are lapping it up. Just look at these comments.

#230 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.12.17 at 3:42 am

#189 Triplenet on 09.11.17 at 11:05 pm
In 10 years your GP will be a robot.
They are already here and working diligently.
————–
You’re right.
My doc is a robot.

#231 Garth for PM? on 09.12.17 at 3:44 am

Welcome to the lobster pot. Here no lid is required. Ambitious crustaceans are dragged down when they try to rise up by the ‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ lobsters. So everyone ends up as dinner.

Garth, hypothetical question:

Would you ever consider taking the PM job if it were handed to you?

Just curious…

#232 Martin on 09.12.17 at 3:58 am

Sad

Life is about humans as well

#233 "The Pot" on 09.12.17 at 4:14 am

We’re all in the pot. Which lobster are you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=81&v=yuC_4mGTs98

#234 "The Pot" on 09.12.17 at 4:38 am

* correct URL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

#235 Bob on 09.12.17 at 4:49 am

Oh please, spare me the sob story Maxim. We both know it’s BS. I know people who own a bunch of clinics and are making more money than they know what to do with. They even have unreported cash piling up in their homes from when people come in for things like sick letters and drivers medical notes. I have half a mind to report them to the CRA for tax evasion. It’s hard work but when done “right”, it is also very rewarding financially.

#236 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 09.12.17 at 5:13 am

As I’ve already stated…..this move by the Trudeau is to line up Unions behind the cause as support across the country collapses. Why do we see Trudeau including the unions wet dream as part of the new Nafta negotiations? Right to work…..unions hate it. And what does a Union matter have to do with Nafta? Support in the 2019 election……millions of dollars spent on CBC etc media for a year in the run up to the election. The doctors are a scape goat…..easy target…..Trudeau wants us to think they’re rich and creepy to distract voters from the extremist crap and dodgy incompetence we’ve seen from Trudeau……and it’s all Trudeau incompetence…..puking up the words and phrases of Geralg Butts and his American Rasputins in the Democratic Party who see Canada’s political capital as their own to spend in boondoggles and job killing strategies. Is Trudeau against energy…..? …..the fact as they present themselves is that Trudeau would break down in tears if he had to choose between two rolls of toilet paper …..yes…..he’s really that stupid. Unions and the CBC are rolling up the welcome mat and want Canadian professionals to learn a lesson from Cuba…..that civil servants live like Kings…..and everyone else can suck mud through a straw.

#237 AsiaKid on 09.12.17 at 6:32 am

While I know not all posts from garth are objective, this post is incredibly biased. I am a business owner and it’s true I had to put up a lot of hard work in the beginning but after a few years I started breaking even on that investment and then began to get advantage on my side. So while a dollar of an entrepreneur might not be the same as a dollar of an employee (my econ professors are rolling over as we speak), the entrepreneurs dollar become easier as time goes by.

This maxim person fairly and unfairly states that nurses go home and can sleep but doctors have to take the pain and suffering home with them. There are caring and uncaring nurses just as much there are caring and uncaring doctors.

This letter from maxim just shows me maxim is a selfish idiot. How sad his/her counterpart had to be a single parent for the week. Obviously the spouses of the nurses have full access to their full-time employed spouses…

Garth, I have no idea why you are so one sided in this argument you would even publish a letter with so many flawed, biased points.

I just published yours. — Garth

#238 Cow Man on 09.12.17 at 7:08 am

#225 billbbob

The Province of Ontario already has “taken” farm lands from folks like me. It is called the Natural Heritage Designation that accompanied the Greenbelt Legislation. They turned my 163 acre farm in the Region of Halton in to a 90 acre farm by regulating agriculture as a non accepted use. The land on which it was imposed had been farmed for over 200 years. No compensation except for the “opportunity” to be exempted under Natural Heritage designation from property taxes. No one said a word. If you go before Regional Council and object you are protrayed as a toxic waste dumping clear cutter. The Halton Federation of Agriculture challenged this at the OMB and lost. It is legislated.

#239 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 7:27 am

#158 ImGonnaBeSick on 09.11.17 at 9:40 pm
…and paying both the employee and employer portions of CPP if you do pay yourself a salary instead…
*****

March 2018: In other news from Parliament Hill, the CPP and EI accounts of the federal govennment are much higher this quarter, no one is sure exactly why…

#240 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 7:37 am

By running their mouths and disparaging doctors and small corps who are LEGALLY minimizing their taxes, T2 and Morneau are not encouraging anyone to work more, give more, donate more, etc.
Incentivize through dollars is one thing, but incentivize through encouragement and appreciation is not being felt, hence all the angst in a usually quiet part of the economy.

#241 NoName on 09.12.17 at 7:39 am

#202 acdel on 09.12.17 at 12:01 am

If nurse manager does it’s job you can’t game OT. I’ll tell you some wards are.dificult and temp/par time nurse just don’t want to work there. Simple as that. But what kicker is look at pay of nurse manager, she is basically person whom make schedule, ward clerks do all the work…

When my wife started working she had 4-5 patients now is 6-7 on a good day and generally 8-9. For most part half of them would be cute or in isolation.

And what that Dave nurse sad above is true, he was nice a polite, thing I hear about gp-s would make your head spin. Let’s leave it there.

#242 jess on 09.12.17 at 7:48 am

small effect on the larger group

“Trust is the fundamental basis of our relationship with patients…
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/white-collar-crime/health-care-fraud/health-care-fraud-news

case of Farid Fata, MD. He was sentenced last July to 45 years in prison for administering excessive or unnecessary chemotherapy to hundreds of patients over a 6-year period, and for billing Medicare and private insurers for $17 million in fraudulent claims.

=============================
fake degrees
“There’s clear evidence that more than half of the people in any given year who claim a new PhD actually bought a fake one,” he says.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/diploma-mills-marketplace-fake-degrees-1.4279513

#243 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 7:50 am

Post 195…
..there’s no such thing as part time stupid.
*****

Comment like that are why I keep coming Bach here, LOL.

Allan Fotheringham, a long ago columnist with MacLeans wrote once,”I come from such a small town in Saskatchewan, so small, that the Town Drunk had to fill in as the Village Idiot”

Have a great morning.

#244 jess on 09.12.17 at 8:08 am

“In the lawsuit, launched in 2010, Day is challenging B.C.’s ban on the purchase of private insurance for medically necessary services covered by the public system, arguing it forces patients to endure long wait times that can exacerbate their health problems.”

https://www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/7496352-overbilling-concerns-spark-b-c-audits/

#245 maxx on 09.12.17 at 8:09 am

#4 NoOneOfConsequence on 09.11.17 at 5:59 pm

“Great Letter Maxim!

Too bad you are just another rich guy defending his richness, while screwing me over by not paying your fair share.

Your words mean nothing.
Cry me a river.

Uh oh…I better get back to looking like I am working, boss is coming.”

What a d-d-d-d-d-dumb-ass comment. It undoubtedly puts a Cheshire cat smile on the Liberal re-election task force. It is precisely the IQ-depleted fodder needed to continue the mission of tax revenue waste and destructive social policy….why, just as I opened my bedroom window this morning, a tsunami of weed stench wafted in from one the units nearby. No doubt someone having a pre-work toke prior to possibly getting into its car. Say, that pot-addled, so-called mind should add mightily to Canada’s productivity and road accident stats. Well done T2!!

The difference between a tax cheat and many small business owners is night and day. I fully support throwing the book at tax cheats. The ability to do that is in CRA’s hands and it is easier than ever. Tax cheats are societal scum. Honest, tax paying small business owners, on the other hand, are not.

The Libs need ignorance to succeed as it is the low-hanging fruit of their success. Given a global economy which is more competitive than ever and where success is achieved with much more brain power and effort than in previous decades, they are now capitalizing on the social fallout which has divided generations, perhaps beyond redemption.

I feel a mix of disbelief and disgust for Millennial mushrooms who spend so much energy reviling success and spitting acid all over those who WORK hard for their lot in life. Of course, the usual targets are boomers and their own successful millennial cohorts. If they have wealth and success, they must all have cheated their way to it, right? Screw them and their richness, eh wot?

Let’s see just how happy you end up as the Libs continue with their ageist, cloaked elitist, wasteful mandates.

This party is not your “buddy”.

#246 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.12.17 at 8:14 am

Joanne #206 said :

The fact is, there is a hell of a lot of money at stake if these tax changes take effect. Drs have a very well funded lobby group working to make sure people don’t see what is really going on. Income is income. We should treat income equally.

—————————————————————

Very well put, Joanne. Common sense and brilliant.

It is both sad and amusing to see all the entitled princesses here bending over backwards to say “but I am SPECIAL, tax me differently!”

They are such caricatures of true conservatives – all they want is a bigger welfare state to protect THEM with tax schemes skewed in their favour.

Shame on all of them, they are the pathetic SJWs of the right wing, but much worse and way more hypocritical.

#247 maxx on 09.12.17 at 8:28 am

#26 sentry on 09.11.17 at 6:22 pm

…”True,it’s a much tougher world now….but that means you have to work harder,not melt into a puddle and bleat for a hug.”

Brilliant.

#248 Ashley on 09.12.17 at 8:55 am

Garth, tired of reading about how hard docs have it. Couldn’t even finish the reading the posts lately. Let’s move on please…
(this is my first post ever – reading for years)

Suck it up, Ashley. We’ll get back to your issues in due course. — Garth

#249 Smoking is cool on 09.12.17 at 8:56 am

Sounds to me like doctors should just be paid more money rather to reflect these challenges.

#250 KLNR on 09.12.17 at 9:02 am

#242 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.12.17 at 8:14

Soooo true

#251 NoName on 09.12.17 at 9:24 am

Interesting read

https://goo.gl/9pKqaM

#252 CJBob on 09.12.17 at 9:24 am

What’s amazing to me is the gap between the top 1% and the rest of us is growing larger, yet it’s the 1% who are complaining? Seriously?

https://www.pressprogress.ca/canada_richest_1_got_a_lot_richer_since_the_1980s_the_middle_class_has_not

#253 KLNR on 09.12.17 at 9:25 am

#175 Canada on 09.11.17 at 10:22 pm

Norway, Sweden, denmark.
all the best places in the world to live are somewhat socialist

#254 CT on 09.12.17 at 9:36 am

In Canada even the capitalists are socialists.

The business owners want the tax code to compensate them for market risk.

The doctors want the tax code to mitigate professional risk.

Bizarre.

#255 AB Boxster on 09.12.17 at 9:46 am

#206 Joanne on 09.12.17 at 12:13 am


It means that it it’s 30% higher in addition to inflation.

———————————————–

Wow 30% over inflation.

So that means then that a doctor over his/her career, is not just earning cost of living, (lets say 2% over the last 10 years) is actually earning more than the cost of living.

Huh,what a concept.
That a doctor starting out with 0 years or work experience when they start their practice, has the gall to earn more than the cost of living.

Here’s a note in the interests of transparency:
I started out my career earning $24,000.
30 years later it ended and i was earning about $100k.
If, I had only received ‘cost of living’ increases, after 30 years my salary would have been $43 k in nominal dollars.
Yet I was earning 100% more.

Its called career growth.
The bizarre concept that employees, who progress through their careers and acquire more experience, extra training, take the extra initiative to better themselves, get ahead.

Under your premise a worker who starts out at a salary of say $50k today, after 30 years of cost of living increases, should earn a salary of $90,500. (which of course is 50K in todays dollars)

Still with me? I know math is hard.

So, a worker, even a professional knowledge worker responsible for human lives, rapidly changing techniques and technologies, and who does not get paid any pension, overtime, benefits etc. should work under the wage scenario of only getting cost of living increases?

And you and your spouse (paying 200k a year in taxes?) think that doctors need to be taxed further?

Your argument truly falls apart during the rest of your rant, which spends most of its time talking about how unfair the world is to you, (must be if you pay 200K in taxes) and how unfair that society seems to like doctors, and that you work really, really hard, and how doctors have a ‘well funded lobby group’ that you obviously don’t.

You’re the typical lobster in the bucket.
A typical Canadian.
Rather than spending your time on how to get out, you would rather pull down the one that seems to have figured out how to exit the bucket.

Here’s a concept.
Instead of comparing yourselves to doctors,or anyone else for that matter, who actually provide a real valued service, why not go after hospital administration costs or the waste in the medical system, or the trust funds of Moreau and T2, or the salaries of the useless idiots in the Senate.

I mean there is a whole bunch more low lying fruit to take on than screwing around with really well educated, intelligent entrepreneurs, that save lives or have businesses that employ other people.

#256 Gonkman on 09.12.17 at 9:47 am

#78 Johnny D on 09.11.17 at 7:28 pm
Want to read some horrifying literature? Read NDP leadership wannabe Niki Ashton’s proposals.

http://www.nikiashton2017.ca

She wishes to cap TFSAs at $50,000 for life for one thing. Wants to add a special tax to purchasing stocks. Wants to tax inheritances by almost 50%… and the list goes on.

It is truly scary that someone who is that out of touch can make it that far in politics.
***********************************************************************************************

Wow.. well we all might as well vote for her and reboot once this sytem completely crashes.

She should run for Permier of Ontario seems she could finish what Wynne started and completely write off Ontario in only 1 term.

I think she has been smoking some Ground up Unicorn Horn she got from Jihad Justin Turdo.

Her webpage is like Unicorn Rainbow Wonderland.

But the Lobsters will eat up those kinds of promises.

#257 Ezzy on 09.12.17 at 9:59 am

LOL some of the comments here though . . . they serve only to show how easy it is to lead humans by their emotional leash. *sigh* Such sheeple! If you believe the Federal Mafia is doing this for the sake of fairness you are as blind as a bat. This is about two things: increasing tax revenue and buying future votes of the self-entitled, whiny, sniffling lobsters. And I am no 1-percenter, in fact my salary is average in every sense. Attacking those who have spent years struggling, stressing, and aging prematurely just to have a small successful business, or to be one of those people who help to keep your sorry selves alive will not help to improve your standard of living, or increase your annual income. Perhaps you can focus your angst at the various levels of government for whom there is little to no transparency in spending, little to no accountability when financial scandals occur (often to the tune of hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars). Governments who see it fit to have over 120,000 salaried employees earning in excess of $100,000 annually. IN ONE PROVINCE!! That’s not even recognizing the benefits said government employees receive, which are utterly alien to most people working in the private sector. I’m curious to know who you’ll blame when average wait times increase (as though they aren’t already lengthy to begin with), and when it becomes increasingly difficult and more expensive to receive medical attention. And if you believe the last three points won’t come to pass you’re simply mad.

#258 TurnerNation on 09.12.17 at 10:04 am

#119 Invictus – last time I was in an Emerg dept I could not walk 5 feet without sighting a Donation plaque. Even the elevator was donated! Every machine had a plaque.

No tax dollar in sight only tax write offs. And why must our ‘first world’ hospitals yearly raise funds. Where’d the taxes go?
Answer is graft and sent overseas to black project and war making,

Get back into your matrix and get ready to pay 70% of income in total taxes.

#259 SBB Ae 8/14 on 09.12.17 at 10:10 am

Garth –

You sound so surprised by T2’s manoeuvrings. He’s a liberal, isn’t he? What’s worse, possessed of his father’s insouciance and his mother’s brains. What else did you expect?

#260 n1tro on 09.12.17 at 10:12 am

#200 A doctor’s perspective on 09.11.17 at 11:57 pm

The tax breaks that the doctors (including me as I have a corporation) including income sprinkling and capital gains are wonderful, and it is not an entitlement. I think it is unfair compared to other salaried Canadian and even to my salaried doctor colleagues. It is an unfair advantage at the end of the day.
——————————————–
Unfair you say? So I take it that you aren’t using the advantage as an incorporated doctor then? Thought so.

#261 Im a real blues fan so what are you Smoking Man? on 09.12.17 at 10:15 am

#212 Smoking Man on 09.12.17 at 12:42 am

In the south visiting graves of my hero’s.
Wish I could play gittar. Miss spelt words is all I have.

https://youtu.be/cu7gafphe9M
________________________________________
Jesus Smoking Man if your going to tell us lie at least lie when we can’t tell where you are. Huddie William Ledbetter AKA Ledbelly is buried at The Shiloh Baptist Church just west of Shreveport Louisiana on the Texas border. You sir are in Northern Mississippi according to your posts, so WTF are you smoking? How do I know this? well I have been to his grave now go find Woody Guthrie’s grave and let me know where that one is? But a good lie anyway.

#262 TurnerNation on 09.12.17 at 10:17 am

#234 Cow Man – yet on the Unionistas and Leftists car you see the bumper sticker Famers Feed Cities.
Let them eat cake.

#263 n1tro on 09.12.17 at 10:23 am

#204 Peter on 09.12.17 at 12:10 am
None of the self-serving “arguments” from this doctor or any other address the issue. Why should a doctor earning $300K who incorporates pay less tax than one earing $300K who does not? They both had the same eduction, took the same risks, work the same hours, have the same business costs, and so on.
———————————————
Geez…its not just about doctors even if the media coins it so. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

#264 Bob on 09.12.17 at 10:23 am

@194 Catalyst

Take a manager at most companies. They work overtime all the time correcting mistakes of their staff and there is no overtime pay.

You as the doctor are making 3-4x at least everyone else and talk down on your staff

I’m an IT Contractor and have worked at over 10 companies. Most managers I know make low 6 figures, e.g. $120K + benefits. Most doctors gross is around $300K, so after 40% expenses, is about $180K.

That is hardly 3-4x, and it is comments like this and Trudeau sound-bites that incites anger on this blog.

Yes, managers also work overtime… so even an on hourly basis, you’re comparing a manager who makes about ~$140K/year (after benefits) vs a doctor at $180K/year. And that’s assuming they work the same number of hours.

#265 Dolce Vita on 09.12.17 at 10:23 am

#85 JustMe

I am an Italian and live here.

Bring your pseudo intellectual buddies and yourself here to Rome and find me some tax riot empire ending ruins…good luck with that.

However, you will find many Attila and Odoacer empire ending ruins.

I am not a big fan of people that want to rewrite history to attribute an empire ending event to what likely originated from some stupid Ph.D. thesis that they and perhaps 3 other people on planet Earth agree with or care about.

Exercise common sense. Come see the ruins, touch them and read the epitaphs in Italian and English. And ask yourself if it was a tax revolt. Honestly, tiresome and exacerbating.

#266 Dolce Vita on 09.12.17 at 10:26 am

#92 JustMe

Book fed.

Here is what Will Rogers, 1920s Cowboy Philosopher Comedian, said about people like you and your buddies at Business Insider:

All I know is what I read in the papers and that’s an alibi for my ignorance.

NO link necssary.

#267 Headhunter on 09.12.17 at 10:28 am

EAT THE RICH!

man oh man some real sour grapes on this “income fairness” topic. Bringing out the worst in people. Jealousy and Envy.

Socialism. The equal sharing of misery.

#268 n1tro on 09.12.17 at 10:30 am

#206 Joanne on 09.12.17 at 12:13 am

I just want people to understand that doctors don’t take on risk. They have chosen a professional that guarantees employment. And they have very attractive pay in Canada, yet they have preferential tax treatment. It’s extremely unfair.
———————————–
I just want people to understand that welfare recipients don’t take on risk. They have chosen a life that guarantees basic income. For actually not working, they have very attractive benefits in Canada, yet they get preferential tax treatment (eg. paying 0%). It’s extremely unfair.

#269 Canada on 09.12.17 at 10:33 am

Pains me to see what’s happening . It’s a reminder that there are consequences to political decisions .

Housing bubble was govt creation . Running a massive deficit and now go after small businesses. They got it all backwards.

Am encouraging our boys to consider employment south of the border .

#270 Bob on 09.12.17 at 10:41 am

@ #100 Joanne on 09.11.17 at 7:59 pm

Also, doc compensation has risen 30% in last decade because of a fear they would move to US. I wish my salary was 30% higher!

Thank you for sharing the link… but in my google search for the article, I also found this about salaried doctor’s in PEI

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/see-more-patients-p-e-i-tells-salaried-doctors

In fact, fee-for-service doctors see twice as many people per week as those on alternative payment schemes, according to a 2007 study spearheaded by Dr. Baerlocher, based on responses to the National Physician Survey.


In other words, pay them a salary, and they work less. Surprise surprise.

BTW, as an IT contractor for over 10 years at almost 2 dozen companies, I can vouch for the differences when I work at a start up, at a small company, at a big bank/corp, or at a unionized (e.g. government) organization.

I work at a constant ‘pace’ regardless of where I work.

At a start-up, the employees work just as hard, if not harder than me. At a large company (e.g. a bank), I estimate I am 30% more productive. At a government organization, I am easily perform 100% more work. In fact, at times, it would be infinity, because some unionized worker add zero value and should have been fired a long time ago.

My point? Having a salaried doctor might be okay on principal, but I suspect it will ultimately cost tax payers more money for decreased quality (or at least, for more inconsistent quality) of pay.

#271 Nurses on 09.12.17 at 10:43 am

With their recent statement it should be a fun working environment at the hospitals :)

Maybe the nurses can start to diagnose , have more skin in the game ?

Didn’t think so ..’.page the doc!’

#272 Stan Broock on 09.12.17 at 10:49 am

#216 Sydneysider on 09.12.17 at 1:00 am
Today a lady in the parking lot at the Vancouver Rupert Superstore asked if she could return my cart, because she was hungry and needed the dollar deposit for food. There seems to be a little village of homeless people springing up there, perhaps encouraged by many weeks without rain.

After this depressing encounter, it is good to read the views of people who have more serious worries.

—————————
Hungry in Canada? A G7, sunny-way country?

https://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi9rvTo8Z_WAhVIOxQKHSlQC_AQtwIIKTAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDkYWqCxCzs8&usg=AFQjCNHYpVSdjYWx0a4FueNWc_IK7rOWqg

More than 1 million kids in Canada go to school hungry

What where the bank profits again last quarter?

——————-
Conclusion: It is the small Businesses fault, let’s kill them (as we can not go after entitled union government fat benefits workers)

#273 Tazi Bnu on 09.12.17 at 10:53 am

Wow, a lot of blog dogs just don’t get it. Especially, on the doctor front. Very few seem to understand that doctors get paid by the government, so the taxes they pay go to the pool of money that pays them. So if you tax them more, really all you’ve done is reduce their pay. The federal liberals have decided that they don’t want to share in that cost anymore and put the burden back to the provinces, because the doctors will demand more net pay from the provinces. If Trudeau had come out and said he’s reducing spending to healthcare there would be protests everywhere, but he’s spun this as a “tax the rich” policy and is causing great divides in our seemingly envious society.

For people who get paid by the government it doesn’t matter if they pay their ‘fair’ share of taxes because it just pays themselves. It only matters what their net pay is to the non-government paid Canadian, because that is their true cost to society.

If you don’t think doctors are worth what they net then go become one if you think it’s so easy. You’ll get to make the money, you’re envious of. Also, there might be a bigger shortage coming up.

If this policy is to go after doctors, then there’s a lot of collateral damage. Trudeau and Morneau are giving the usual platitudes, that this won’t hurt Farmers, or businesses that make less than $150,000, and so on. The proof will be in the ‘pudding’, the fine, written, details of the actual law. Liberals have a habit of not following through with promises, especially on the tax side.

One of the goals of closing ‘loopholes’ is to simplify the tax code, not make it more complicated as their proposal seems to suggest. It’s just badly made policy that will not achieve it’s stated goals and cause great disturbances in the economy and society.

#274 Victor V on 09.12.17 at 10:58 am

Home Capital shareholders vote no on second investment by Warren Buffett: At a special meeting, more than 88% of shareholders voted against allowing the additional holding, keeping the legendary investor’s stake at 19.99%

http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/newsalert-home-capital-shareholders-vote-no-on-second-tranche-for-buffett

#275 Victor V on 09.12.17 at 11:00 am

Ontario, B.C. job markets won’t go bust from a housing correction, but risks remain: DBRS

http://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/ontario-b-c-job-markets-wont-go-bust-from-a-housing-correction-dbrs

#276 nick on 09.12.17 at 11:03 am

some tax changes in BC!

New taxes

Higher earners and corporations will pay more tax to help pay for expenditures.

“People earning more than $150,000 a year will now face a personal income tax rate of 16.8 per cent up from 14.7 per cent.

The NDP will also increase the general corporate income tax to 12 per cent up from 11 per cent.”

#277 Rexx Rock on 09.12.17 at 11:03 am

I guess the numbers don’t lie.T2 with his great team is making the Canadian economy stronger,consumer confidence is up,more jobs,dollar is going up and interests rates finally moving up.On his watch Canadians are really starting to see a true leader for the working class.Cheers!

#278 chapter 9 on 09.12.17 at 11:04 am

Since we are talking about ‘closing loopholes” here are a few that will level the playing field.
-unions/labor organizations, eliminate their tax exempt status.
-strike pay will be taxed as income
-line 212 tax return, deduction for union dues only-gone!

Now it’s fair!!

#279 IHCTD9 on 09.12.17 at 11:15 am

#4 NoOneOfConsequence on 09.11.17 at 5:59 pm
Great Letter Maxim!

Too bad you are just another rich guy defending his richness, while screwing me over by not paying your fair share.

Your words mean nothing.
Cry me a river.

Uh oh…I better get back to looking like I am working, boss is coming.

_________

Have I ever mentioned that Canadians are dumb as stumps? Look at that post above, the reasoning of a 2 year old who didn’t get the red lollipop. Take it away because I didn’t get one.

Get ready for more – look how many posters support this kind of ideology as a form of “justice”, but no one even cares where the money goes afterwards or what is done with it LOL!

These dumbass Canadians are happy to know the so called “rich folks” have been relieved of their stash – the point is taking it away, not using it towards some common good.

What a pathetic collection of gelatinous spined pu$$ies Canadians have become. Groveling in the dirt hoping for the downfall of others, rejoicing with every new burden placed on the backs of others.

I wonder how many Doctors and Dentists etc.. voted for Trudeau? Answer: LOADS of ’em did – are you folks learning anything yet?

Come on, I know guys who never made it past high school that predicted perfectly what was coming with Trudeau back in 2015.

I knew what was coming, and I did not consider myself and my household to be untouchable like perhaps the Docs and Dentists did. Once it was confirmed that I was correct, I took action immediately.

I hope you small business folks don’t forget the classroom you’re in right now, and I hope you all graduate with a PHD in Laffer Curve Economics.

Trudeau doesn’t like you, and evidently neither do your fellow Canadians.

#280 Dmitry on 09.12.17 at 11:15 am

#211 mousey

Could you please share your letter that you’ve sent to your MP? I hope I can get a reply by my MP and get invited to this round table as well so I can get my point to them and explain why is so wrong with these new tax law changes. Hopefully they will listen.

#281 Spock on 09.12.17 at 11:31 am

#204 Peter on 09.12.17 at 12:10 am

Andrew Coyne has moved to the far left long time back. The junk that he writes is getting worse day by day.

Have you even bothered to read his other articles or you just google around to find something that fits your narrative.

It is not the newspaper that matters – it is who wrote the article that matters.

#204 Peter on 09.12.17 at 12:10 am
None of the self-serving “arguments” from this doctor or any other address the issue. Why should a doctor earning $300K who incorporates pay less tax than one earing $300K who does not? They both had the same eduction, took the same risks, work the same hours, have the same business costs, and so on.

Here’s the Globe and Mail explaining this far better than I can: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/globe-editorial-on-small-business-taxes-the-liberals-are-mostly-right-in-theory/article36215634/

In case the Globe’s too much of a left-wing rag for you, here’s Andrew Coyne explaining the same thing in the National Post: http://nationalpost.com/news/andrew-coyne-the-tax-system-cant-possibly-do-what-people-want-it-to-do

#282 Matsebula on 09.12.17 at 11:34 am

So take physicians outside of a private corporation setting and make them all salaried with DB pensions and benefits and reasonable hours. Fine. Most of them would probably eventually think that was awesome. They would probably even unionize. I mean, Nurse Practitioners make between 90K – $110K in salary, so double that for a family physician with double the education, then add in overtime at 20 hours a week, plus benefits, vacation days, sick incidents, etc. and I would expect that putting physicians on salary will actually be way way more expensive than the current arrangement.

This is about a rare skillset, that we ask people to punish themselves to learn. Never mind that the risk of suicide and other mental illness is higher for physicians than the general population.

http://nationalpost.com/features/wounded-healers

Nothing that the Liberals are doing addresses the fact that physicians still have a very unique, very high end skill set that is naturally going to command a much higher level of compensation than someone who isn’t making life or death decisions about others. The market will eventually work it out, and when physicians either cut hours, or move away, or cease practicing, then it will be clear that the Liberals have gone a bridge too far.

I almost puked hearing Morneau on CTV spouting stats about how private corporations have increased in the last 15 years, and how this whole thing isn’t about doctors. But the reason for the increase was the Ontario Medical Association getting the right for its members to incorporate in exchange for no fee increases to the Ontario government. So Bill is lying, straight up. It is just ridiculous.

Making the rich poorer does not make the poor richer. I am beginning to really dislike how much of Canada thinks.

#283 IHCTD9 on 09.12.17 at 11:36 am

#236 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 7:37 am
By running their mouths and disparaging doctors and small corps who are LEGALLY minimizing their taxes, T2 and Morneau are not encouraging anyone to work more, give more, donate more, etc.

______________________________________

No, but they are teaching us about where their heads are at, what kind of tactics they like, and just how out to lunch with reality they are.

If Trudeau gets another round with his divisive hate based Politics, he’ll have half the Country ready to strangle each other.

But hey, that’s way better than Harper who was a real mean guy.

#284 Provincial Government Encouraged Doctors to Incorporate on 09.12.17 at 11:42 am

Snippets from the Globe and Mail

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/ottawa-should-acknowledge-doctors-made-a-tax-deal/article36223760/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&amp;

George Smitherman, who was health minister then, said in an interview that it was a way to offer more than his negotiating budget allowed, in order to get a deal. Dr. John Rapin, then head of the Ontario Medical Association, said that provincial offer “was the turning point.” Ontario offered special tax breaks instead of higher fees.

“It was definitely communicated as part and parcel of a package of benefits,” Mr. Smitherman said. “It definitely had some official stamp of approval on it.”

#285 James on 09.12.17 at 11:43 am

I am wondering when CDN Prime @3.20% and US Prime @4.25% are going to zero out the differential? It could signal a decline in the world power base.

#286 IHCTD9 on 09.12.17 at 11:44 am

#274 chapter 9 on 09.12.17 at 11:04 am
Since we are talking about ‘closing loopholes” here are a few that will level the playing field.
-unions/labor organizations, eliminate their tax exempt status.
-strike pay will be taxed as income
-line 212 tax return, deduction for union dues only-gone!

Now it’s fair!!
________________________________

Aw – no Fair!!

That’s too much fairness!!

Mom!!!

#287 Tony on 09.12.17 at 11:48 am

Home Capital is in a trading halt my guess is 15.25 after it resumes trading.

#288 James on 09.12.17 at 11:50 am

#251 AB Boxster on 09.12.17 at 9:46 am

#206 Joanne on 09.12.17 at 12:13 am

It means that it it’s 30% higher in addition to inflation.

———————————————–

Wow 30% over inflation.

So that means then that a doctor over his/her career, is not just earning cost of living, (lets say 2% over the last 10 years) is actually earning more than the cost of living.

Huh,what a concept.
That a doctor starting out with 0 years or work experience when they start their practice, has the gall to earn more than the cost of living.

Here’s a note in the interests of transparency:
I started out my career earning $24,000.
30 years later it ended and i was earning about $100k.
If, I had only received ‘cost of living’ increases, after 30 years my salary would have been $43 k in nominal dollars.
Yet I was earning 100% more.

Its called career growth.
The bizarre concept that employees, who progress through their careers and acquire more experience, extra training, take the extra initiative to better themselves, get ahead.

Under your premise a worker who starts out at a salary of say $50k today, after 30 years of cost of living increases, should earn a salary of $90,500. (which of course is 50K in todays dollars)

Still with me? I know math is hard.

So, a worker, even a professional knowledge worker responsible for human lives, rapidly changing techniques and technologies, and who does not get paid any pension, overtime, benefits etc. should work under the wage scenario of only getting cost of living increases?

And you and your spouse (paying 200k a year in taxes?) think that doctors need to be taxed further?

Your argument truly falls apart during the rest of your rant, which spends most of its time talking about how unfair the world is to you, (must be if you pay 200K in taxes) and how unfair that society seems to like doctors, and that you work really, really hard, and how doctors have a ‘well funded lobby group’ that you obviously don’t.

You’re the typical lobster in the bucket.
A typical Canadian.
Rather than spending your time on how to get out, you would rather pull down the one that seems to have figured out how to exit the bucket.

Here’s a concept.
Instead of comparing yourselves to doctors,or anyone else for that matter, who actually provide a real valued service, why not go after hospital administration costs or the waste in the medical system, or the trust funds of Moreau and T2, or the salaries of the useless idiots in the Senate.

I mean there is a whole bunch more low lying fruit to take on than screwing around with really well educated, intelligent entrepreneurs, that save lives or have businesses that employ other people
________________________________________
Here, here now I concur AB Boxster.
We whom have spent tireless years for embitterment and who contribute to the wealth of this country need an outlet to squirrel away our schekles. Why the hell doesn’t T2 and his cronies start with their own federal MP loopholes. T2 has never worked a day in his life thanks to daddy T1.

#289 James on 09.12.17 at 11:53 am

#275 IHCTD9 on 09.12.17 at 11:15 am

#4 NoOneOfConsequence on 09.11.17 at 5:59 pm
Great Letter Maxim!

Too bad you are just another rich guy defending his richness, while screwing me over by not paying your fair share.

Your words mean nothing.
Cry me a river.

Uh oh…I better get back to looking like I am working, boss is coming.

_________

Have I ever mentioned that Canadians are dumb as stumps? Look at that post above, the reasoning of a 2 year old who didn’t get the red lollipop. Take it away because I didn’t get one.

Get ready for more – look how many posters support this kind of ideology as a form of “justice”, but no one even cares where the money goes afterwards or what is done with it LOL!

These dumbass Canadians are happy to know the so called “rich folks” have been relieved of their stash – the point is taking it away, not using it towards some common good.

What a pathetic collection of gelatinous spined pu$$ies Canadians have become. Groveling in the dirt hoping for the downfall of others, rejoicing with every new burden placed on the backs of others.

I wonder how many Doctors and Dentists etc.. voted for Trudeau? Answer: LOADS of ’em did – are you folks learning anything yet?

Come on, I know guys who never made it past high school that predicted perfectly what was coming with Trudeau back in 2015.

I knew what was coming, and I did not consider myself and my household to be untouchable like perhaps the Docs and Dentists did. Once it was confirmed that I was correct, I took action immediately.

I hope you small business folks don’t forget the classroom you’re in right now, and I hope you all graduate with a PHD in Laffer Curve Economics.

Trudeau doesn’t like you, and evidently neither do your fellow Canadians.
________________________________________
All I can say is Millennials plus legalized marijuana.
1+1 = T2
Do the math it s simple!

#290 Capt. Serious on 09.12.17 at 12:04 pm

Evidently when tax code is complicated, people will be lead astray. The politicians have done their citizens a great disservice by creating a system that is impossible for anyone other than tax lawyers to fully understand.

#291 Deckard on 09.12.17 at 12:05 pm

“Have I ever mentioned that Canadians are dumb as stumps? ”

IHCTD9, I tend to agree with you.

I’m in the Eng consulting industry, running a service Corp. I know others in the same business working as employees, jealous of me, assuming I get huge tax breaks. I suppose those that abuse the system do profit in some ways but for the those folks that keep the straight and narrow path, tax integration laws squash a lot the tax benefits, in the long run.

I often tell them, “if you think it’s so good, why don’t you quit your job and go solo?, nobody is stopping you! It’s a free country!” At that point, they usually prefer to change the subject.

#292 NoName on 09.12.17 at 12:11 pm

#257 Nurses on 09.12.17 at 10:43 am
With their recent statement it should be a fun working environment at the hospitals :)

Maybe the nurses can start to diagnose , have more skin in the game ?

Didn’t think so ..’.page the doc!’


yes they can, NP do that, nurse told us you son has “this”, but we steal needed a doc to look at paper and confirm, that happened 2 times (one was genetic disorder and second one was something that is not quite autoimmune disease but can be often described as disorder.
Here is the kicker we were taking son for NINE (9) months to sea many diferent docs before they diagnosed Graves’ disease. 9 #@%^ months from gps to specialists.

#293 Bruce on 09.12.17 at 12:17 pm

So what is the real Liberal motive behind this substantial change in the tax code? It isn’t to bring in substantially more tax revenue, as the amount projected was overall small, and with inevitable reaction by some, it will be less. Is it so they can say they “hit the rich” and a future tax increase somewhere else is an easier sell? Is it to sow more seeds of class warfare that helps at the next election.

For certain, substantially higher taxes are coming. Canada’s total Fed + Provinces public debt is $1.3T+ and growing in almost every jurisdiction. This during times of some of the best GDP growth (a bit artificial it might be). So, with no end of debt growth, taxes are going to have to rise.

Raising again the (new) top bracket isn’t going to cut it. That bracket is already at 54% (Ontario). It could be raised to 70% (let’s really soak it to the rich!) and it wouldn’t close the deficit gap.

There are really only a few tax measures that would (at least initially, before the overall impact on economy) bring in enough revenue to close the deficits:
– Higher taxes on income over ~$80K. This hits into the vast majority gov’t employees, so is a really hard sell for the Libs.
– Increase in GST/HST by at least a couple of % points. Pretty big blow to a consumer economy.
– Reduce the capital gains exception for primary residence (greatly impacting TO and VAN, two the liberals most important voter support bases).
– Increase capital gains inclusion rate (or eliminate deduction it altogether). This one hurts the Lib political base the least, but has the greatest potential long term impact to economy.

Personally, I think the Libs will double down on the “hit the rich” scheme, but they will do so by subtly lowering the bar on who is rich.
– Increase taxes on those over $150K (this rate goes to ~55% fed+prov, with the over $220K hitting 60%).
– Package that increases capital gains taxes on any values over some threshold like $50k/year
– Cap gains on primary residences over a certain value – perhaps the $1M mark.

At the same time, do not touch tax law that lets the 0.01% shelter a large portion of their income, so the Lib “CEO & family trust” base remains. Really increase the take from those between the 5%-0.5%, that aren’t able to structure (enough) to avoid it.

In other words, become much more aggressive in cultivating the “us vs. them” approach. If 95% of Canadians feel like the 5% is really getting the shaft to finally pay “their fair share”, then how is this not a winning strategy for the Libs? I have always been surprised this has not happened yet (it is the inevitable direction of a democracy). I think it is a consequence of the split on the left. If not for the NDP, who will always get a % of the vote, the Liberals would have done this long ago.

#294 Honky Donkey Blues on 09.12.17 at 12:18 pm

we live under a Monarchy. The Crown believes it has domain, from God, over the land and its resources , your biology and its labour. Should we expect anything different?

#295 Terrorelf on 09.12.17 at 12:27 pm

Dearest, sweetest, loveliest Garth, (see what I did there?) we are trying to grow our money to the point where we can hand it over to Turner Investments. Do you still stand by your four year old post “Investing 101” (http://www.greaterfool.ca/2013/09/27/investing-101/) or have your views changed in some of the specifics? If so would you consider an updated blog post overview of investing basics some time soon? Thanks x

What I wrote was brilliant. Nothing more to add. — Garth

#296 Terrie on 09.12.17 at 12:27 pm

While interesting, stories are just stories. People tell them the way they want to, and pretty much always a bit tilted in favour of themselves.
I prefer evidence to be as free as possible from self-interest.
And I think the good doctor assumes too much with this statement. “Meanwhile, the salaried nurse goes home to sleep at the end of her shift.”

#297 BC Tackling Speculation on 09.12.17 at 12:29 pm

Since everyone was disappointed that the NDP did not target speculators in the budget, the Premier has re-affirmed the intent to tackle money laundering and speculation in BC RE:

https://twitter.com/jjhorgan/status/907381577801277440

This was also the language in the finance minister’s speech.

They know they are politically exposed if they do not do something…

#298 HaHaHa on 09.12.17 at 12:37 pm

wrong math. Truckloads more Haitians/El Salvadorans to Quebec x bad weed policy in Ontario( thanx Wynnie) + rising NDP star = PC Minority. Okay maybe T2 gets the minority. Who cares all you cry babies are screwed anyway you cut it. Now quick lemmings go out buy the new iphone and make the 1% even richer.

#299 Stone on 09.12.17 at 12:39 pm

#273 Rexx Rock on 09.12.17 at 11:03 am

I can’t disagree with you. It’s true. 10 years of Conservatives under Harper and our economy was flacid. Enter the Liberals back to power and the country’s growth skyrockets, unemployment at all time low, and interest rates rising towards normality. Both the Conservatives and Liberals have increased our federal debt but only the Liberals seem to have moved the needle on growth, employment and interest rates. I can see wage growth in the near future and real estate speculation being quashed too. Maybe they’ll also start cutting debt down now that they don’t need to prop up the economy.

Things are looking up to me. Go Liberals! Go!

I always thought Chretien was a great PM. Hoping T2 does the same.

#300 Saw it on Twitter on 09.12.17 at 12:41 pm

Is Bill Morneau in trouble because he was in the Panama Papers and was using off-shore tax havens? I saw it on twitter. Will he be asked this by the media?

#301 Darren on 09.12.17 at 12:42 pm

Only a politician would be unable to see that this tax measure will inevitably exacerbate the doctor shortage in this country.

#302 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 12:46 pm

#225 BillbBob on 09.12.17 at 3:39 am
So glad to be a global citizen. Canada is a nice place to visit in summer, and that’s it.

Partner is from the Czech Republic. A country that knows a thing or two about hardship and tyranny, in the last century having endured both the Nazis and the Commies. More importantly – survived them both. Canada has suffered NOTHING in comparison.

She and her family listen with great interest to some of the political shenanigans going on in Canada. They are polite, but when the wine flows a bit they literally cannot believe the path Canada is being taken down. The simply cannot comprehend why anyone would choose to pursue such evil, failed philosophy. Been there, done that.

They still have letters from the government demanding her great-grandfather relinquish the family farm to the state. For the “greater good”, of course. Just making sure everyone contributed their “fair share”. It was phrased in EXACTLY the same terms as this cynical being rammed through by Morneau and Trudeau. Those “rich” farmers need to pay!

In her family, they tried to resist and refused to cede the property – the farm had been in the family for generations. So the state imposed an impossibly high milk quota they were required to contribute annually to the state. But after years of crop failure they couldn’t provide the livestock with enough nutrition to produce enough milk. The old letters document their pleading for leniency. So the state simply confiscated the farm. The never did receive it back after the fall of the former USSR.

This is exactly the tactic being used by the Liberals. Move the goalposts. Trumpet a sham consultation period. With the stroke of a pen, make what was legal, illegal. Make law-abiding citizens, criminals. And the masses cheer.

At first.

It’s disgusting, and horrifyingly, tiresomely, predictable.

It isn’t about doctors or some specific amount of money. It’s about a mindset. When I see someone I perceive to be doing better than myself, and desire to have what they have, I immediately start to analyze what I must do to achieve the same. I don’t start thinking about how I can take away the other person’s.

Why is this becoming the standard in Canada?

The government is playing you for fools. Distracting from their massive, wasteful overspending – the true problem – by playing to the basic instincts of greed and jealousy. Canada has it’s very own “dog-whistle” politics, make no mistake. And the simple-minded are lapping it up. Just look at these comments.
*****
Worth repeating. A little bit of perspective.

#303 Peter on 09.12.17 at 12:52 pm

” #13 Argo on 09.11.17 at 6:11 pm
There really shouldn’t be much more time spent mulling over this topic. Doctor’s are invaluable to society, and I don’t think anyone argues that — but so are nurses, police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and teachers. The anecdotal stories of ‘poor’ doctors and dentists are becoming ridiculous. It’s particularly difficult to have sympathy for people who, on the whole, make $100k more than most people; especially other essential service providers.

Where is it written that doctors should be overworked and rightly compensated? Doctors in Sweden, France, and Great Britain don’t make nearly as much as Canadian doctors. The only reason Canadian doctor’s believe they are entitled to high pay is because of our proximity to the US, a country whose healthcare system is driven by profit and greed. It only takes minor attention to the news to understand that the American system is broken and ridiculously expensive. If our doctors want to pack up and head south it says more about a commitment to their own income than that of their chosen altruistic profession.

Perhaps instead of having 50 doctors working 70 hours a week and bringing in $200k, there could be 100 doctors working 40 hours a week bringing in $100k… who could argue with that scenario? ”

** This guy is bang on, couldn’t have said it better myself **

#304 Vancouver Guy on 09.12.17 at 12:52 pm

“‘fairness’ and ‘equality’ lobsters”…
More like the jealousy and envy lobsters, to be honest.

#305 X on 09.12.17 at 12:54 pm

Amazing how many peoples responses are out of jealousy. Go to medical or dental school and quit complaining if you are so hard done by. Better yet borrow a quarter or half a million and start a business. You have my encouragement. I am sure the non entrepreneurs will change their tune after seeing the other side of the fence.

#306 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 12:55 pm

Post 242
They are such caricatures of true conservatives – all they want is a bigger welfare state to protect THEM with tax schemes skewed in their favour.

Shame on all of them, they are the pathetic SJWs of the right wing, but much worse and way more hypocritical.
*****

Wow, quite a thick brush there.

#307 Victor V on 09.12.17 at 12:55 pm

http://www.bnn.ca/ottawa-watching-for-stress-of-higher-rates-morneau-1.854261

Finance Minister Bill Morneau said on Tuesday that he was watching carefully for any stresses that higher interest rates may put on indebted households.

Speaking to reporters as the Liberal government’s cabinet holds a two-day retreat, Morneau also said he had “nothing to report” when asked about further government measures to cool the country’s housing market.

#308 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 12:59 pm

#278
I think she has been smoking some Ground up Unicorn Horn she got from Jihad Justin Turdo.
*****

LOl! You people are killing it today. Awesome.

#309 NEVER GIVE UP on 09.12.17 at 1:12 pm

Lets Scrap all this busy work nonsense and have one simple tax with no wasted time filling endless forms out for governments to waste our money reading.

APT tax.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_Payment_Transaction_tax

#310 Catalyst on 09.12.17 at 1:14 pm

@260 Bob

‘Yes, managers also work overtime… so even an on hourly basis, you’re comparing a manager who makes about ~$140K/year (after benefits) vs a doctor at $180K/year. And that’s assuming they work the same number of hours.’

Thanks for your comment Bob. I think you are saying the same thing as me. My point is that if the manager makes 140k and the doctor makes 180k why can the manager not income split and build capital gains for exception like the doctor can. It is unfair imo that the two are not treated equally.

#311 paul on 09.12.17 at 1:15 pm

The best and only way working people will get just how bad everyone is get screwed on taxes is to pay quarterly and straighten up at the end of the year.

Torches and pitchforks

#312 anc0dia on 09.12.17 at 1:36 pm

How are these changes a shock to anyone who uses them. Anyone with a decent accountant would have been warned what they were doing was in a grey area and could be changed by the government at any time. And guess what, it’s being changed. If you didn’t know the risks, get a new accountant.

#313 Bob on 09.12.17 at 1:38 pm

#305 Catalyst

Thanks for your comment Bob. I think you are saying the same thing as me. My point is that if the manager makes 140k and the doctor makes 180k why can the manager not income split and build capital gains for exception like the doctor can. It is unfair imo that the two are not treated equally.

No Catalyst, we are not saying the same thing.

The extra $40K/year doctor vs manager is not sufficient compensation. If you want to be fair, then the manager’s wages need to be lowered.

The point is, the provincial government encouraged doctors to incorporate, to make use of legal tax savings (not “loopholes”) as part of the compensation package.

As said previously, I’m an IT contractor. I’ve worked at 3 government organizations (municipal and provincial). And like big banks and corps, they insist on incorporated professionals. It saves them money, offers them flexibility. I make, after taxes, about the same amount as my salaried counterpart on an AVERAGE per-hour-basis, because I have many hours of unpaid work.

Again, the non federal governments insist/encourage this as PART OF THE COMPENSATION PACKAGE.

#314 n1tro on 09.12.17 at 1:40 pm

#298 Peter on 09.12.17 at 12:52 pm

Perhaps instead of having 50 doctors working 70 hours a week and bringing in $200k, there could be 100 doctors working 40 hours a week bringing in $100k… who could argue with that scenario? ”

** This guy is bang on, couldn’t have said it better myself **
———————————————
Perhaps instead of having 50 poor people working 40 hours a week and bringing in $15/hr, there could be 100 poor people working 20 hours a week bringing in $7.5/hr… who could argue with that scenario?

If the poor person doesn’t like the pay, well they can head off to the US because there are plenty other poor people to fill in the role.

Do I have to point out how flawed the reasoning is in the above “bang on” post?

#315 Bob on 09.12.17 at 1:42 pm

Snippet from Globe and Mail

In Ontario, the Liberal government’s talks with doctors were locked in an angry stalemate in 2004 – until the province offered doctors the right to name non-doctor family members as shareholders in a medical corporation – so they could split income.

George Smitherman, who was health minister then, said in an interview that it was a way to offer more than his negotiating budget allowed, in order to get a deal. Dr. John Rapin, then head of the Ontario Medical Association, said that provincial offer “was the turning point.” Ontario offered special tax breaks instead of higher fees.

“It was definitely communicated as part and parcel of a package of benefits,” Mr. Smitherman said. “It definitely had some official stamp of approval on it.”

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/ottawa-should-acknowledge-doctors-made-a-tax-deal/article36223760/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&amp;

#316 Entrepreneur on 09.12.17 at 1:48 pm

When the GST was first introduced many small businesses would not work passed the $30,000. mark. ($30,000. and up a business owner is required to charge GST to customers then every 3 or 4 months report this paperwork to the government.) The incentive to work beyond that was gone for many. Why bust your butt off when all you do is paperwork and taxes? And the underground/black market grew.

And if you owe the government money they want it now! More incentives lost due to pressure on them to cough up more money for the government instead to their business. Businesses closed their doors! And many divorces! Families torn apart!

As for the people: The government does not care about the people/communities as many people lives were destroyed (I have seen it). All they care about is the extraction of our resources (our economy grew with this and with the extra money given to the middle class) and probably can’t wait until automation takes over so they do not have to deal with us humans.

Taxes, up or down, will divide us, the people of a community, but the internet will pull us together and stand together and conquer this problem with solutions.

#317 jess on 09.12.17 at 1:53 pm

aristocratic “lords”

How the aristocracy preserved their power

After democracy finally shunted aside hereditary lords, they found new means to protect their extravagant riches. For all the modern tales of noble poverty and leaking ancestral homes, their private wealth and influence remain phenomenal

by Chris Bryant

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/sep/07/how-the-aristocracy-preserved-their-power

#318 Leo Trollstoy on 09.12.17 at 2:02 pm

The government is playing you for fools. Distracting from their massive, wasteful overspending – the true problem – by playing to the basic instincts of greed and jealousy. Canada has it’s very own “dog-whistle” politics, make no mistake. And the simple-minded are lapping it up. Just look at these comments.

These posters are wage slave plebs

#319 isuckless on 09.12.17 at 2:10 pm

“Amazing how many peoples responses are out of jealousy. Go to medical or dental school and quit complaining if you are so hard done by.”
Yeah, right. Try to enroll in medical school. The criteria is subjective and unfair. Number of doctors is artificially kept low.
M59ON

#320 Jay (not that one) on 09.12.17 at 2:24 pm

You are doing an excellent job of showing us you’re completely out of touch.

Please, keep working to convince me. Given your current inept line of logic, I expect you will have completely convinced me that houses in Toronto and Vancouver can go nowhere but up and that it’s definitely the best investment for 2017.

#321 Nurses Assocoation on 09.12.17 at 2:25 pm

Why did they feel obligated to comment on political policy ?

They want a level playing field ? Become self employed and open to litigation for failures

Sometimes cannot comprehend human behaviour

#322 KM on 09.12.17 at 2:28 pm

“Amazing how many peoples responses are out of jealousy. Go to medical or dental school and quit complaining if you are so hard done by.”
Yeah, right. Try to enroll in medical school. The criteria is subjective and unfair. Number of doctors is artificially kept low.
M59ON]

Says the bitter man who got rejected.

#323 Fake News Again on 09.12.17 at 2:36 pm

Nurses are the WORST

They bitch about work hours. They bitch about not enough staff. They bitch they bitch they bitch….

But they never ever bitch about the 90K they bring home with 2x and sometimes 3x overtime pay along with perky benefits and a giant fat pension when they retire.

#324 Peter on 09.12.17 at 2:37 pm

@Spock

“It is not the newspaper that matters – it is who wrote the article that matters.”

Actually, no, it’s the *substance* of the article that matters. And since you’ve offered no counter argument to anything either Coyne or the Globe editorial board said, I presume that you have none.

#325 MJ on 09.12.17 at 2:57 pm

Hey Garth.

Am I missing something here?

Don’t small business owners have to pay full income tax on any money that they use personally? The money that stays in the corporation is subject to a lower tax rate (on the first $500k) but once that money is accessed by the owner it is fully taxed. Correct?

T2 is making small business owners into villians, spreading ‘fake news’ about loopholes (its not a loophole, its legal tax policy), saying ridiculous things like incorporated individuals that make $250k can pay less tax than ‘regular’ folk making $50k (absurd, its not true) etc etc. Its riling up his base with fake news to keep his popularity up but in the long run this is doing harm to this great country.

Most small businesses make careful plans to ensure that they are profitable and viable. Sudden drastic changes like Trudeau is proposing are completely unfair. This is nothing but a tax grab.

Justin Trudeau has a huge spending problems with deficits far greater than the modest ones he anticipated. Instead of hiking taxes and pitting Canadians against each other perhaps he should instead learn to budget and reign in his out of control spending.

MJ

PS: please correct me if I’m wrong, but Harper allowed income splitting for all citizens until the liberals took it away. Instead of now trying to take it away from businesses, people should demand that everyone is able to income split regardless of whether you are incorporated or not. A partner staying home to raise a family is a huge contribution to society and as such we should look at family households when it comes to taxes instead of individuals.

#326 IHCTD9 on 09.12.17 at 2:58 pm

Trudeau’s free spending, debt piling ways are pushing Canadians into an irrevocable commitment to impossible and crippling debt servicing costs. While Harper had the deficit back to 900 Million or so in October 2015, Trudeau reversed it back to a projected 30 BILLION in less than 6 months. 3500% increase in 6 months. Trudeau is now projecting a 29 BILLION dollar deficit again for 2017. Nothing tangible has come from any of Trudeau’s spending.

Meanwhile good high paying jobs are exiting faster than they can be replaced, and any job growth reported invariably turns out to be crap retail / service jobs. Unemployment rates falling more due to folks giving up the search than actually finding a job. No wonder some Provinces are looking to crank Minimum wage, those are the only jobs the Liberals seem to be able to create. In fact, the Libs may be preparing for no jobs at all with pilot projects underway testing basic income schemes.

BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of energy and mining investment is hauling ass to get out of Canada where there is no Trudeau. From the Ring of Fire debacle to the wasted effort and dollars trying to build a pipeline, the dollars are outta here like a Vette on nitrous.

By the time Trudeau’s time is up in 2024, we’ll be paying more collectively for debt interest than education, immigration will be 500,000 per year, the upper middle class will consist of 80+% public servants, less than 150,000 people in the entire country will make over 200K, labour participation rate will fall into the 50’s INCLUDING the government workers, manufacturing and natural resource extraction will be on a one way trip into insolvency, federal debt to GDP will break all previous records and Trudeau will have accumulated more new debt than any other PM in the history of Canada.

Oh, and taxes will be up, services down, and government bigger and more expensive.

Impressive Mr. Trudeau, most impressive…

#327 fizzy on 09.12.17 at 3:10 pm

I’m sick of your bs on this topic Garth, cut it out already. Of course doctors should be paid more than nurses, and they will continue to be. But once they are paid, they should be taxed the same way, whether they are employed, self-employed, or incorporated. By the way, I’m a CPA – I add this for your lapdogs that keep saying “people don’t understand”.

#328 calguy on 09.12.17 at 3:33 pm

For the first time I feel no longer as tied to Canada as I used to. I have become evermore frustrated and angry by the directions of all governments.

Just as others have said, we are in class warfare as well as political correctness on steroids. I’m sorry “Argo”, but doctors are not in same class as firefighters, nurses and police. I have great respect for those. Doctors are the most educated and have sacrificed many years (up to 15) in university. Many years of lost income. Most doctors work in offices with overhead costs, equipment and staff. Many work over night shifts or late shifts. Small business have put in countless hours and money to get the business running and have expenses. Gov’t employees do not have overhead costs. Oh by the way, doctors and most small business do not have benefits or pension plan.

Their taxes have already gone up with combination of provincial and federal governments. Some are close to 55%. The proposed changes are medieval and downright a slap in the face for these people.

Where is the government spending the money?? It is so out of control, I would like to move away.

#329 IHCTD9 on 09.12.17 at 3:33 pm

#318 Fake News Again on 09.12.17 at 2:36 pm
Nurses are the WORST

They bitch about work hours. They bitch about not enough staff. They bitch they bitch they bitch….

But they never ever bitch about the 90K they bring home with 2x and sometimes 3x overtime pay along with perky benefits and a giant fat pension when they retire.
_____________________________________

I watched a nurse complain his way to within an inch of quitting his 80K gig at a clinic. “The RN’s at the hospital make more!”

I was transfixed with this guy – so clouded in rage that he no longer understood how bloody good he had it. Was he actually going to quit a job 90% of Canadians would kill for? Because someone else doing the same job somewhere else got a little more than he did?

Eventually someone must have slapped some sense into this ####### idiot as he calmed down and “made do” with his crappy 90K job – life is tough.

#330 jess on 09.12.17 at 3:33 pm

“We got very lucky,” said Jeff Masters, co-founder of Weather Underground in Ann Arbor, Michigan. If Irma had passed 20 miles west of Marco Island instead of striking it on Sunday, “the damage would have been astronomical.” A track like that would have placed the powerful, eastern eye wall of Irma on Florida’s Gulf Coast.

#331 AGuyInVancouver on 09.12.17 at 3:34 pm

#218 Silver on 09.12.17 at 1:12 am
funny how all the major groups applauding this seem’s to be made up of tax dependent government employees… who are dependent on tax increases for their raise’s and benefits…

_ _
Blah, blah blahbeddy blah. Spare us sanctimonious outrage. Plenty of us don’t work for the government yet still want a fair tax code that doesn’t offer nice juicy tax breaks for some but not others.

Funny how everyone keeps using doctors as the example of the poor little souls picked on by the Liberals. Don’t think you’ll get any love by offering lawyers and realtors as your hardship poster kids?

#332 Dan on 09.12.17 at 3:40 pm

Every doctor specialist is a millionaire, they see patients in average of 12 to 15 minutes time to cram as much is possible. They ban entry to profession for young doctors to avoid sharing wealth. They always say they will leave the country but they never do. Because nowhere is better for them. So dentists, doctors, plumbers, electricians, bank ceos and lawyers and off course government employees. Tax them all to the bone because they are all sickly greedy and they will never have enough…

#333 Dan on 09.12.17 at 3:46 pm

Revolution is distribution of wealth but also poor kills rich in the process just to be faster and simpler. This year we celebrate 100 years of October revolution. US and its vassals try to kill proceeds of that revolution for last 100 years ans somehow, oh somehow they cannot….
They were close in nineties but seems to late now..

#334 jess on 09.12.17 at 3:48 pm

corda

New York-based software company R3 CEV has partnered with Britain’s financial watchdog and two large banks to develop a blockchain-based application to improve the regulatory reporting of mortgage transactions. (reuters)

===========
AI personality tests ( to make sure the new hires like calling their clients “muppets”) :)

http://wallstreetonparade.com/

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-r3-fca/r3-uk-regulator-and-banks-team-up-on-blockchain-based-mortgage-reporting-idUSKCN1BN0QX

#335 Bob on 09.12.17 at 4:08 pm

This isn’t just about DOCTORS dammit!

I make less than $150K, nor do I don’t have a spouse to income split with. These tax changes have a huge impact on me, as I’ve based almost two decades of my career based on the rules.

Trudeau is flat out wrong (lying!) that this doesn’t impact me.

So to all the blog dogs saying the doctors and small business owners are whining, well, feel free to ignore us and go away. Don’t be like the nurses who add fuel to the fire.

And just to put substance to my argument, here’s the beginning of the math.

In 2008/2009, my contracts dried up. I made $30K that year. It took me 3 years before I started billing about $100K/year again. But I weathered the storm because I could pay myself a personal salary every year around $65K/year. Now, if I leave money in my corporation, it will be taxed at 73% with I withdraw it.

Just do the damn math please. At least that university prof Kevin Milligan did the math (even though it was incomplete, and therefore, misleading), starts a reasonable basis for discussion.

#336 Spock on 09.12.17 at 4:51 pm

#326 AGuyInVancouver on 09.12.17 at 3:34 pm

Then let us make it fair. No more paid vacations / sick days / tax free benefits paid by employer / defined benefit or contribution pension plans.

What should be a good start to make it a fair tax code for

#326 AGuyInVancouver on 09.12.17 at 3:34 pm
#218 Silver on 09.12.17 at 1:12 am
funny how all the major groups applauding this seem’s to be made up of tax dependent government employees… who are dependent on tax increases for their raise’s and benefits…

_ _
Blah, blah blahbeddy blah. Spare us sanctimonious outrage. Plenty of us don’t work for the government yet still want a fair tax code that doesn’t offer nice juicy tax breaks for some but not others.

Funny how everyone keeps using doctors as the example of the poor little souls picked on by the Liberals. Don’t think you’ll get any love by offering lawyers and realtors as your hardship poster kids?

#337 Spock on 09.12.17 at 4:55 pm

#319 Peter on 09.12.17 at 2:37 pm

If you have read what Garth said or seen the folks on BNN and still do not understand the issues at hand and believe what Andrew or T2 and his merry band of jokers say is true – nothing I say will change your mind because of the blinders you have one.

You were trying to imply that even National Post is writing articles which support T2.

#319 Peter on 09.12.17 at 2:37 pm
@Spock

“It is not the newspaper that matters – it is who wrote the article that matters.”

Actually, no, it’s the *substance* of the article that matters. And since you’ve offered no counter argument to anything either Coyne or the Globe editorial board said, I presume that you have none.

#338 Spock on 09.12.17 at 4:58 pm

#225 BillbBob on 09.12.17 at 3:39 am

Thank you for sharing. Your words will fall on deaf years since T2 knows his base of jealous folks will not listen to any logic.

To make things fair, I propose that all employees be laid off once in their life and forced to start their own business for 3 years.

That should add some perspective

#339 Johnathan on 09.12.17 at 6:37 pm

#174 KLNR

closing a tax loophole doesn’t lead to communism lol

I know it is not the closing of the loophole, it is the pitting of classes against each other and turning them to hate each other as if they don’t offer anything to society.

This is just the start of the slow turn to hate.

#340 Al on 09.12.17 at 8:56 pm

Boom!!

Maxim lays down the facking hammer.

God man. Why did these guys get frigin elected.

It’s so frustrating.

#341 MPAC on 09.12.17 at 9:06 pm

Ryan L. is going to be on BNN tomorrow.

I’ll be watching!

#342 Dissident on 09.13.17 at 8:47 am

Dear Maxim,

This is an indication of you having very little regard for your support staff – “Meanwhile, the salaried staff just has to pick up the phone, call in sick, and get paid for lying in bed. And that’s assuming they weren’t playing hookie.”

As a salaried employee for 10+ years, I never played ‘hookie’. Not once. Meanwhile, the last 6 years involved me working with a woman who did (a supervisor who enjoyed reminding me she was ‘my boss’ – well, she wasn’t really. My boss was the president, but who’s counting bosses right?), because she could get away with it. Why? She had a doctor’s note. And she was not white. HR tried to enforce attendance and she cried her way out of it.

A bitter co-worker and myself counted all the paid ‘sick days’ she took in one year. 60 paid ‘sick days’. Plus her 4 weeks (20 days) of paid vacation. That works out to being absent roughly 33.3% of the working year. So basically, our employer was paying her to be away for 4 months of the year…that’s 1/3 of the working year. And this person is an office manager.

When I left that job, one of my many bosses asked me, “Isn’t (–) part-time?” And I said, “No sirree, she is not. And I am tired of working under a woman who plays boss but is never here. I do 2x as much work as she does, at relatively the same pay. Buh-bye.” (Bosses were boomers, she’s a gen-X-er, and I’m a Xennial, if you want to split hairs).

I’m one of those staff who is always there, and I kind of take it personally when employers think staff are playing hookie when they aren’t, and likewise, I take it personally when employers don’t do anything about staff who ARE playing hookie, like hardcore hookie, and nothing is done about it. But leave it to employers to assume all the wrong things about their staff. Rant over.

#343 MrSilbergleit on 09.13.17 at 11:01 am

How can Bill Morneau go on air to condemn small business tax loopholes when he used an offshore tax haven?

#344 Bob on 09.13.17 at 11:23 am

@#337 Dissident

As an IT contractor who has worked in many companies, most places I agree – employees don’t abuse sick days. However, especially at unionized places I’ve worked in (3 of them), I would say 1 out of 10 maybe would abuse it. Possibly more as I can think of 3 out of less than 30.

The point I think Maxim is trying to make is that business owners don’t ever have this luxury. That’s not to say 90% of the employees have it either, but if you are a business owner, you have to assume 10% “lost productivity” based simply on cheats.

Just look at your office as proof. If you’re that pissed off at a fellow employee, imagine how the business owner feels. (maybe not your president, but most other business owners). Now, you can appreciate why so many are angry at Trudeau.

#345 Matthew on 09.13.17 at 8:57 pm

The doctors points aren’t particularly relevant, his examples are all considerations the medical associations use when bargaining with provinces for fees so they’re already built into their income. These aren’t reasons why their income should be treated differently at tax time.

I feel that income variability is a red herring generally – for high-income individuals like doctors its unlikely that the minor variability year-over-year changes their nominal tax bracket. The exception here is obviously athletes who are only likely to earn large salaries for a small part of their working lifetime.