Divide & conquer

“Yeah,” the realtress said, looking down at her Gucci sandals after the failed showing, “it seems so.” Deceased, that is. Real estate in the country’s biggest market is well and truly croaked after last week’s rate hike. The second in two months sent a crystal message to even the biggest housing bull. There’ll be no autumn renaissance. And April may also be cruel.

Only one question remains. Will this be a temporary respite, flatlining prices for a year or less allowing incomes to catch up and debt to stabilize? Or is it a once-in-a-generation event which craters values by a third, requiring more than a decade to recover? If so, 2017 may be the new 1990. (Buyers then had to wait 14 years to break even.)

Some believe with the prime and mortgages popping higher again property sales might get a lift. Could be. Over the next few weeks some potential buyers who pre-approved for cheap loans may pull the trigger and buy. But not many. Most are too scared of reaching for a falling knife. No realtor salvation there.

Here’s another outcome to consider.

First, a quarter of all borrowers have variable rate mortgages, which have just increased twice in seven weeks. Since most of them only went VRM to get a cheap rate, this is a shock. Second, there’s been a massive, historic and yuge increase in secured lines of credit (HELOCs) over the past five years – something akin to 40%. With $220 billion borrowed against their houses, these people also just experienced two rate increases which will immediately raise payments – by 16% (secured lines are usually demand loans).

But wait. We know almost half the folks with HELOCs don’t make regular repayments  – principal or interest. Every month the size of their borrowing simply increases by the unpaid interest, until the debt limit is achieved. That day is now coming a lot faster.

Meanwhile, as the cost and size of home-equity lines swell, the value of the real estate securing it is shrinking. If this continues for a couple of years, vast numbers of people may find they face a margin call on their homes. Ever wondered what happens when you have a mortgage and a HELOC, but no longer any equity? Screwed.

As rates normalize, this could be a decade-long housing slump.  Increasing numbers of people who were porcine debt-snorflers may be unable to borrow more, and be forced into selling.  Will that not drive property values lower as supply topples demand?

So many questions. So many realtor Audis about to be returned. And so evident is the damage too-low interest rates have had on housing affordability, debt accumulation and Canadians’ brains. BMO egghead Robert Kavcic sent around a meaningful chart at the end of last week when it became oh so clear the Bank of Canada is serious about reversing its monetary policy mistakes.

“It’s no coincidence,” he says, “that, after a multi-year period of well-behaved price growth, the Toronto market began to explode after the Bank of Canada cut rates twice in the first half of 2015.” The average home cost $552,000 when the central bank shockingly cut its benchmark rate as oil prices decline. Two short years later that house was changing hands for almost $200,000 more. In the meantime wages flatlined. The only supporter of inflated real estate was debt. Look at this:

So what did cutting rates do? “It sent a clear message that, after barely containing their enthusiasm for years as rates were expected to (eventually) normalize, buyers/investors/speculators had a free pass to run amok.” And muck they did. Borrowing and spending without discipline. Kavcic says this market might still land softly. I think the bank made him do it.

$    $    $

Just a week now until your MP goes back to work in Ottawa, which sadly means Pride Parade season must be over. Besides being hard at work legislating weed (Ontario announced Friday it’ll take over drug dealing) the prime minister plans to drop the hammer on the self-employed this autumn in the name of ‘middle-class fairness.’

We’ve kicked this canard a number of times, but he’s still quacking. This weekend June, a YVR dentist, was in touch. “I graduated 7 years ago and incorporated last year,” she says. “The most expensive thing I own is a 2010 Jetta. My husband and I rent a small apartment. I work as an associate dentist for 2 different owners who each own multiple dental practices.”

She’s aggrieved and wanted to write T2’s money guy, Bill Morneau. “I was trying to tell them, look, I’m not rich, these other guys are. Look, this isn’t fair, I took on all these risks and expenses and extra work that salaried people didn’t. I stopped writing when I got the sudden feeling that I’m yelling at someone who is pretending to be deaf. Well of course they know exactly what I am. That’s why they chose me. They already know I’m not rich. They already know it’s not fair. I’m just political cannon fodder.”

Well, she wrote, anyway. Here’s some of her note:

I think you already know that you are not actually taxing “the rich,” and that you are not actually trying to make things “fair.” I think you are purposefully using emotionally charged labels to turn public opinion against small business owners, because while everyone is squabbling about what is fair and who is rich, you just want to hide the fact that you need lots of money for a massive spending spree, and you are not about to tax the actual rich. I can see that you are trying to push these measures through as quickly as possible, with a farce of a “consultation period,” because you don’t actually want to give anyone time to investigate what is best for Canadians in the long term. You decided the easiest thing is to grab it from people who earn enough to cough up the money, but not enough to put up an expensive and drawn-out fight.

That is why you are shaking down small business owners, because broader hikes that affect everyone will cost you votes, and you are too afraid to take on the Bay Street CEOs. That’s also why you keep harping on about “income sprinkling” even though, out of the three proposed measures, it brings in the least money. You are using it as an emotional trigger, because you know it will draw more potent knee-jerk hatred than the boring and esoteric intricacies of passive income taxation. You believe you are scapegoating a group of people that probably would not have voted for you anyway, or is small enough that the loss of their votes does not matter.

This is classic divide-and-conquer – single out a small group who have enough to pay but not to fight, convince everyone else their problems are caused by these “tax cheats,” and while they squabble, you reap the profits to cover your excessive spending, keep the actual rich people from throwing an expensive hissy fit, and let the next government worry about the political fallout when small businesses close, people lose their jobs, and health professional shortage becomes suffocating. It is brilliant – the money comes in right now but the fallout can take decades to unravel, this policy can hardly be seen as the spark that started the forest fire while everyone is bickering, and the mob will be so smug and satisfied with having taken down “the rich” that you can leave the CEOs and Panama Papers crowd unscathed. You even managed to make the schadenfreude so cathartic that most people forgot to criticize how you are collecting and spending their taxes, which will not be lowered despite “the rich” finally paying their “fair share.”

June for MP! Are you in?

249 comments ↓

#1 Celeste on 09.10.17 at 4:07 pm

Yes.

#2 BigEnglish on 09.10.17 at 4:22 pm

Sign us up!

#3 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

He is going after Bay Street CEOs with this as they are starting abuse personal corporations as well. I work for a publicly traded company with a multi billion dollar market cap and our CEO is an “independant contractor” who has all of their compensation paid to their personal corporation (a few million a year). This all freely disclosed in our Sedar filings.

I actually have no issue with the amount of comp paid to our CEO, I actually think it is totally fair (modest even) but I do have a big issue with it going to a corp rather than being taxed as employment income just like my salary.

This is exactly why this is all being shut down and I applaud it.

#4 Spectcle on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

Seriously ! Excellent postings.

….and sign me up. Tonight, let’s provide our best links to forward, Print, share, and exchange with our friends to get some momentum going.

I’ve really had it with that Failed drama/yoga instructor/terrorist loving , selfie Prick T2.

Look forward to getting some good links, sites, and groups to get active with.

Anyone else?

Regards to All

#5 raisemyrent on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

Nice letter.

It’s easy to blast politicians. It’s even easier to blast the idiot (usually young) masses that put them in place to come up with things like this (TFSA slashed, empty-home tax, etc.). The alternative, useless generation that wants a nice life immediately before their brain is even done developing, and through anything but work, patience, and calculated moves. I’ worried about how much worse they’ll become, And I was born in the 80s.

#6 Denise#1 on 09.10.17 at 4:41 pm

Sure am!

#7 Debtslavecreator on 09.10.17 at 4:44 pm

These Liberal crooks are desperate for money and the government is insolvent looking out 5-10 years
Billy Money-eau has been found to have offshore bank accounts arranged through the Kossack Panama firm
Taxes for the bourgeois – the little people pay taxes
Meanwhile these government goons destroy private businesses including the pot shops so that public sector unions can run 150 stores with 60-70k stock clerks who will have better pensions than most working people’s salaries
Folks – these crooks are brazen
The voters in this country and especially in Ontariowe deserve what’s coming
To hell with these radical left wing thugs and thieves
Too many takers and not enough makers

#8 Cecil Henry on 09.10.17 at 4:56 pm

The answer is NOT to tax ‘CEO’s more and ‘passive income’.

This mentality is no different than what she’s complaining about. Its still theft by government.

The answer is REDUCE taxes, let people decide and pay for what they want.

Canadians (productive, working people) are fed up with taxation. I did not go to university, get advanced training, take risks, loans, forego spending and sacrifice free time in ORDER TO earn more and THEN have it taxed away to be redistributed to others.

That is theft. I and my labour is not a piece of property. The government now takes over 60% of economic productivity in some form, and Canadians earnings—especially those who EARN the most by greater effort, education and skill— and taxed at 50% plus.

Taxation of 30-40-50% plus is slavery. Period

1. Stop this ‘income tax’ theft on higher earning Canadians and reduce taxes to a flat tax. People EARN the money they get in a free society.

2. INCREASE the TFSA to $50,000/ year contribution limit. (Like it is in Britain for example) Stop double taxation of my earnings.

3. REDUCE government expenditure permanently by 20% over 4 years. That’s 5% per year. Then directly reduce income taxes proportionally. REDUCE ALL income tax by 20% by 2020.

#9 Dan on 09.10.17 at 4:58 pm

Now, just educate me here. Name one country in the world where dental work is more expensive than in Canada. Please.

#10 Bob on 09.10.17 at 5:06 pm

“June for MP! Are you in?”
—————————————————————–

June and Garth for MP!

…please?

#11 Game Over on 09.10.17 at 5:11 pm

Savage!

That was the nail on the head right there. Provincially(Ontario) and Federally, these crooks gotta go.

#12 For those about to flop... on 09.10.17 at 5:11 pm

O.k ,so here is a recent sale out of my Pink Folder.

Did they get what they needed?

You tell me…

M43BC

1540 Pinetree Way, Coquitlam paid 1.38 sold on August 26 for ???

May 8:$1,588,888
May 15: $1,498,888
Change: – 90000.00 -6%

https://www.zolo.ca/coquitlam-real-estate/1540-pinetree-way

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAzWTA1OQ==

#13 Irish Stew on 09.10.17 at 5:23 pm

Problem is some people are taking advantage of the tax loop hole…..others now become collateral damage and caught in the crossfire – myself included.

#14 young & foolish on 09.10.17 at 5:26 pm

We expect more and more from government. Some even want to regulate what you can say and who you can like! More and more regulations, and more and more bureaucracy. Where is the money going to come from?

That’s right … you and me.

#15 Lost..but not leased on 09.10.17 at 5:28 pm

WTF could go woronggg ??

Canada was farced blessed with G*D(damit) Pierre Trudeau….who begot a son Justin Trudeau…born Dec.25,1971. Hellelujah T2!

A young lady in the US, via a fair bit of genealogical research, deduced that all US presidents are genetically related.

Are we in Canada gonna start another divine right to rule lineage?
Are Canadians suffering from Stockholm Syndrome moving from T1 to T2?

T1 built the coffin…T2 role is to pound the nails?

#16 TAX AND SPEND AGAIN on 09.10.17 at 5:30 pm

When I was growing up the communist’s were called the REDS. People should observe what the Liberal colors are.
We are getting to where there are too few supporting too
many. Between left wing politics and unions we are killing ourselves with debt. But I guess that is the Liberal way.
Sunnydaze.

#17 Fed-up on 09.10.17 at 5:30 pm

Open house on my street. Original owners since 1975 of a 3000 square foot home and a very beautiful Scarborough Bluff neighborhood. Two beautiful sunny afternoons after Labor Day and they only had one or maybe two couples come to see the home and it is very reasonably priced believe it or not, when all is considered. The market is toast.

#18 bubu on 09.10.17 at 5:32 pm

When will OSFI announce if they implement or postpone the new mortgage rules?

#19 SNAKE PLISSKIN on 09.10.17 at 5:35 pm

Canada got the government it deserves with a 39% “majority” haha. If you voted liberal you got what you deserve. If you raised your kids to be weenies and they voted liberal you got what you deserve. When Trudy is done fleecing you and giving your hard earned cash to His “entitled ones” He will get reelected so that he can bend you over and fleece you some more. You deserve every stroke. Suckas.

#20 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:36 pm

Only one question remains. Will this be a temporary respite, flatlining prices for a year or less allowing incomes to catch up and debt to stabilize? Or is it a once-in-a-generation event which craters values by a third, requiring more than a decade to recover? If so, 2017 may be the new 1990. (Buyers then had to wait 14 years to break even.)

1990 will look like a speed bump compared to what is coming. First off this bubble and the amount of debt is way bigger and country wide. Second in the 90s rates declined to mitigate the correction. The future now is rising rates. Big difference. Third lending was also loosened over that time frame. Min down payments were reduced from 10% to 5% (and then to 0% for a while), RRSP for down payments were introduced, first time buyer loan programs, subprime private lenders exploded, etc. They have already used every trick in the book to expand credit and pump this bubble. There is nothing left to use help mitigate a correction. The correction will be much deeper and longer than we have ever seen before.

#21 pay your taxes on 09.10.17 at 5:42 pm

School, hard work, and risk do entitle you to higher earnings and a better quality of life. They don’t entitle you to a lower over all tax rate than the rest of the working stiffs, no matter how big your tax bill is and how many people you employ. Sheesh.

All this blather about salaried employees having no risk flies in the face of what Garth preaches daily, namely diversification and not having a one asset strategy. These corporate folk pay lip service to becoming a salaried employee but few follow through with it unless forced to.

I’d like to thank Garth for dragging this subject out into the light. I knew about some of the shenanigans of the privileged few, but taking capital gains instead of paying personal income tax was an eye opener. Happy 2018

#22 anyone remembar omar? on 09.10.17 at 5:42 pm

let’s screw over the hardworkers
the people who fight for our freedoms
and award 10m to a child terrorist

yeah… okay Mr Trudeau

#23 crossbordershopper on 09.10.17 at 5:44 pm

cant wait for new years, when i make lots of cash in the usa. thats cash justin, us $, dont worry about it, i aint counting it, and you aint taxing it. its as simple as that, a bag full of cash.
Canada, reason number 5, they do what they want, lets look at the pot shops. in ontario they will control and distribute weed, and i assume cookies and baked goods, all weed infused. do they have to control everything, absolutely no room for private sector to make a buck, anything they can control, minipulate etc, there in there. tough to compete against the goverment,
i hit my head againt the wall, ran around in circles, stressed out etc, for years, now i simply go to the us, firstly illigallly, like whatever that means, people walk over the border of my country and get a hand out no paperwork or invitation, i didnt need an invitation from obama. i just did it and i advise you to do it too. what are you going to do live in this hell whole till you die,
go cross the border, take the jetblue flight to anywhere i go to florida, i do my thing, i know it there just like mississauga.
america needs educated hard working people, entrepreneaurs, you owe it to your children and yourself.
personally i think they jacked real estate in canada to get you hooked on the canadian coolade. anchored down cant leave .
i had to go broke playing by the rules before i figured it all out, its simple, risk it all, in a place where you keep your money, and costs are lower. hard work gets you ahead in the usa, in canada you get arthritis in your hands and feet. no one cared about me when i was a looser, in a perverted way its like the goverment of canada doesnt want me to succeed so i jumped ship.
reason to leave canada #5- the goverment of canada does whatever they want, one day they are putting you in jail for smoking weed, another they are selling it at the goverment store, but dont think you are going to be competing against them, only 1 mobster allowed in Canada and thats the government. pls come i will show you around.

#24 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 09.10.17 at 5:46 pm

I’m so sick of these whiny snowflake small business owners. Quit your bitching, suck it up buttercup and pay your damn taxes.

#25 Lost..but not leased on 09.10.17 at 5:46 pm

IMHO..Pride Parades are meteorologically discriminatory!

They should be held in the middle of the Winter Solstice, in Cities that historically are vertically thermometer challenged.

Diversity is out strength!!!..and potential Darwin Award winners should be embraced!!!!!!!

#26 jim obvious on 09.10.17 at 5:48 pm

Must be missing something here.. why is an employee of a dental practice incorporating?

What is she upset so about if she’s not “rich”? Seems to me, it’s her bosses skimming her money off that she should be blaming, not the government.

#27 Cici on 09.10.17 at 5:49 pm

June gets my vote!

And despite living in a small apartment, she and her husband should start replicating immediately…her future progeny may be the lifeline that Canaduh so desperately needs!

#28 Moses71 on 09.10.17 at 5:49 pm

Good thing my rental house in Kelowna is fixed for another 4 years @ 2.59%! And it’s being rented for $1700/mo!! It should be paid off in 8 years!!!
And I’m sharing rent in Calgary with my sister with the popcorn, just waiting!!
I see it never pays off to be too greedy! <> Which is why i keep reading this site everyday! It’s amazing how much you learn from others’ mistakes & not a porcine debt snorfeler toboot!

#29 Howard on 09.10.17 at 5:52 pm

The Globe featured a 29-year old photographer who just bought a house in the Junction. $495K, under asking, for a semi. Seems like a good deal but they don’t show pictures of the house. Either it’s a major dump or the market has fallen even more than we thought.

Yes you read right….a *photographer* spent a half-mil on a house.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/sanity-returns-to-torontos-housing-market/article36215287/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&amp;

According to a comment on facebook, the buy reads your blog, Garth:

“Andrew Williamson: Freya Leesen strangely enough I’ve been reading Garth’s blog for the last few months”

https://www.facebook.com/theglobeandmail/photos/a.157369913903.114299.140961138903/10155640110333904/?type=3

#30 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:55 pm

3 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

He is going after Bay Street CEOs with this as they are starting abuse personal corporations as well. I work for a publicly traded company with a multi billion dollar market cap and our CEO is an “independant contractor” who has all of their compensation paid to their personal corporation (a few million a year). This all freely disclosed in our Sedar filings.

CEOs of multi billion corporations who get paid millions typically get paid most of their compensation in stock options which delays taxation and cuts their tax rate in half through capital gains. This is not being changed.

Things like income sprinkling through a corporation will not reduce a wealthy persons or family’s tax in most cases. If someone makes a few million a year they will already have enough income producing assets to bring all family members income high enough to pay the highest marginal rate. This new attack on corporations is not a tax on the rich. This is a tax on those who have a family member with little or no income which eliminates most rich. How many rich people have family members with little or no income in order to take advantage of income sprinkling? Rich people have investments already which max them out to the highest marginal rate. Diverting money from one family member to another does nothing to save on taxes for the rich. This is a tax on the middle class who own businesses. Nothing more. The real rich will not pay more.

#31 Deb on 09.10.17 at 5:55 pm

For those who have been supporting these Liberal tax changes:

No Canadian should ever cheer a tax increase. If you think there is tax unfairness, argue for tax decreases where you think it would make things fairer.

We are grossly overtaxed and governments are spending too much!!

#32 Rargary on 09.10.17 at 5:57 pm

All of those who enabled this gigantic porker mess have screwed it up for rest of us permanently. So NO our hearts don’t bleed for them. If Happy Housing Crash likes to rub it in due to the enablers’ greedy wannabeism egos… just like it is for the rest of us… too damn bad for them too! HAPPY HOUSING CRASH!!

#33 Dolce Vita on 09.10.17 at 5:57 pm

And she wonders why the Hon. Minister would have deaf ears to that diatribe for which I glazed over after the first paragraph.

Just state how many jobs will be lost and spending in $ terms and she would have a chance.

After that epitaph and accusing the Minister of tax dodging I would rather commit Seppuku if I were Morneau than give her what she wants, to the contrary, I would find ways to take away more.

#34 Old Ron the Realtor on 09.10.17 at 5:59 pm

Well it looks like this Blog is being taken over by “neo-con fringe” Too bad it was fun for a while. Have fun folks buh-bye.

#35 Peter on 09.10.17 at 5:59 pm

Let’s get real. The endless whining about how much risk you took or how hard you work is nothing more than special pleading. No matter how awesome you think you are, it doesn’t entitle you to a tax break. There’s simply no reason why June should pay less tax than a sole proprietor in the otherwise exact same situation. There is no public interest in paying people to incorporate. We should stop doing it.

#36 Garth's daydream on 09.10.17 at 6:02 pm

June for MP! Are you in?

—-

For which party, though?

Conservatives? I didn’t see them to take on Bay Street CEOs and KPMG’s off-shore clients.

NDP? No thanks…

What are you suggesting then?
In Canada a party should pre-approve a candidate, they can’t just “trump” the system.

#37 Annexed on 09.10.17 at 6:02 pm

I moved to Canada a disillusioned American political refugee from the Bush era. I’m one of the few that said “If Bush steals a second election we’re going to leave this dump” and we kept our word. It was mostly the Iraq war spending I wanted to leave for good, a moral choice. Only to move my business to Canada’s “neo” conservative Harperland, which I didn’t recognize as bad until the housing bubble (which we had left in the US) was being deliberately stoked in Canada. Bush called it the Ownership Society. I couldn’t believe Canada was falling for that bullshit – it failed big time in the States. Now everyone here was “richer than you think.” Scotia even stole the immoral hazard slogan from Citibank, as they weren’t using it anymore.

Anyway, at least our small business taxes were reasonable in Canada, and not like the CEO-optimized taxation system in the US we were escaping. Now we’re seeing the Trudeau Liberals – fairly young people – failing to learn any lessons from the US or even Harper.

I came up here and registered as a Green, as I’m well left of the Liberals. But with the systemic mess my adopted coutnrymen have made in the decade I’ve been here, I’m becoming a type of conservative that there may not be a party for yet. A Garth party of fiscal transparency and common sense financial and foreign policy that retains value with the people who create it.

If I could I would vote for June for MP. Her story absolutely resonates with me. (My car is a clean 2008 and I sold a wicked 4000sf modern house in an acre of woods in the US only to rent in the noisy Annex for 3x my former mortgage. I’ll just wait this mess out….)

#38 Doug t on 09.10.17 at 6:05 pm

This country is waaaayy over due for a recession/ correction – and it will last long enough to make these snowflakes think differently in the future

RATM

#39 Todd on 09.10.17 at 6:05 pm

Only the Ontario Libs could come up with the most uncool way to sell pot. We should see craft marijuana sold in select grocery stores by the year 2107. Sad!

#40 For those about to flop... on 09.10.17 at 6:11 pm

Ron the Realtor on 09.10.17 at 5:59 pm

Well it looks like this Blog is being taken over by “neo-con fringe” Too bad it was fun for a while. Have fun folks buh-bye.

////////////////

Or you can help me out…

M43BC

#41 Stone on 09.10.17 at 6:13 pm

Ever wondered what happens when you have a mortgage and a HELOC, but no longer any equity? Screwed.

———

I don’t think prople with HELOCs really understand what’s at stake. HELOCs are not collateral mortgages, they’re All Indebtedness Mortgages (AIM). With a
collateral mortgage, the bank can only take the house. With an AIM, the bank can take any asset you own. Very convenient difference for the bank, yes? Don’t believe me? Read the HELOC contract you signed. Oh, and some banks actually AIM the standard first mortgages as well. How long before the banks start sending out letters to their customers advising the limits on their HELOCs have been reduced. Ouch.

Looking forward to more rate hikes.

As for the other subject today regarding the self employed, it’s done and we all know it. Let’s move on. No more crocodile tears please.

#42 Dolce Vita on 09.10.17 at 6:15 pm

Ya but Garth, it’s different in Vancouver.

They’re all buying brand new luxury condos that they are going to make a killing in the mostly dead as door knob resale market.

Then again, they’re going to assign the purchase to someone else before buying, thus circumventing a land title record for tax purposes and no one will ever know…well, except for CRA that is already investigating 1 of those new shiny assignment bereft YVR cult condo buildings.

Let’s play Russian Roulette with the CRA.

I love it.

Fools.

#43 Yanniel on 09.10.17 at 6:18 pm

+1 for the dentist.

This is what I wrote to my Liberal MP and to the Finance Minister:

“I am not a 1er. My wife is not a 1er either. We are both full time employees with employer RRSP matching and we don’t own any businesses.

We don’t come from affluent families. We are just hardworking people.

These modifications to the tax system don’t affect us “directly”. You might wonder then what is this letter of mine about.

This letter is my way to tell you there’s no fairness in the proposed tax modifications. This is an attack on the small entrepreneur (that provides the bulk of jobs in the Canadian economy) and the doctor (who saves lives).

We (as a couple) were considering using our savings to start small business. In doing this, we would take enormous risk and leave our full-time secure jobs.

Why would be do that? Well, in the Liberal government’s opinion we would do that because we are greedy people that deserve way more tax.

You are punishing the successful people. You are killing
entrepreneurship. This is shameful, not fair.

We decided not to become entrepreneurs in Canada, not with this government either way. We decided to take our dreams and our money south of the border: to the United States.

We still get to vote. We will be voting on Canadian elections from within the US. Rest assure we won’t be voting Liberal. This is an unfair government.

By the way, don’t pretend you are “consulting” us (the Canadian people) about this tax grab. This is a done deal.

Sincerely,

Yanniel Alvarez Alfonso.
(Don Valley East, Ontario)”

#44 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 6:19 pm

#30 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:55 pm
3 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

He is going after Bay Street CEOs with this as they are starting abuse personal corporations as well. I work for a publicly traded company with a multi billion dollar market cap and our CEO is an “independant contractor” who has all of their compensation paid to their personal corporation (a few million a year). This all freely disclosed in our Sedar filings.

CEOs of multi billion corporations who get paid millions typically get paid most of their compensation in stock options which delays taxation and cuts their tax rate in half through capital gains. This is not being changed.

Things like income sprinkling through a corporation will not reduce a wealthy persons or family’s tax in most cases. If someone makes a few million a year they will already have enough income producing assets to bring all family members income high enough to pay the highest marginal rate. This new attack on corporations is not a tax on the rich.

That is true about stock options (and I wouldn’t even want the the feds to change that) but there are obviously still some big advantages to incorporating or else they wouldn’t do it.

#45 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 6:23 pm

#30 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:55 pm
3 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

Things like income sprinkling through a corporation will not reduce a wealthy persons or family’s tax in most cases. If someone makes a few million a year they will already have enough income producing assets to bring all family members income high enough to pay the highest marginal rate. This new attack on corporations is not a tax on the rich. This is a tax on those who have a family member with little or no income which eliminates most rich. How many rich people have family members with little or no income in order to take advantage of income sprinkling? Rich people have investments already which max them out to the highest marginal rate. Diverting money from one family member to another does nothing to save on taxes for the rich. This is a tax on the middle class who own businesses. Nothing more. The real rich will not pay more.
___________________________________________

My wife has no income as she is contributing to the family taking care of our children and taking an enormous risk that I will not get laid off leaving her with no income but she is not blessed with the ability to split her income with me.

I don’t actually have a problem with income splitting, I think we should be able to split income like in the US. What I have a problem with is one class of people having the ability to do it and not others.

#46 dr. talc on 09.10.17 at 6:28 pm

#22 anyone remembar omar? on 09.10.17 at 5:42 pm
let’s screw over the hardworkers
the people who fight for our freedoms
and award 10m to a child terrorist

yeah… okay Mr Trudeau


everything about the Omar narrative is fake
from his parents to 911 to osama bin ladden
to 10 mill
sometimes our controllers do hoaxes or operations to re enforce previous hoaxes and operations
it’s quite common

#47 Jim on 09.10.17 at 6:28 pm

Long time follower of this great blog and have been following the advice in terms of renting vs buying and investing wisely. Just a general question > Should any “well balanced” portfolio be showing negative growth the past few months? And what is a reasonable return for the 2017 calendar year?

#48 FTE on 09.10.17 at 6:31 pm

A dentist who works as an associate. Meaning she isn’t a business owner at all. What are these risks she’s whinging about? She’s graduated into one of the most overpaid professions in Canada, and unless she’s totally incompetent is most certainly on her way to being a one percenter. She hasn’t had to pay for the startup costs and overhead of the practises she works at, yet complains that she’s not entitled to special tax treatment. Yikes!

I’m pretty sickened by common the sense of entitlement expressed by very very well off people. A common theme is how hard they work, and how much risk they’ve taken. I submit that is totally irrelevant. It’s about how much money you take in, and that is all. If you are not successful (and many entrepreneurs aren’t despite their hard work) you are not going to be taxed. If you are successful, you are going to be taxed. Is that both not simple and fair?

I support the proposed new tax measures because there is no excuse for allowing some people to ‘sprinkle’ income to family members while being completely forbidden to others. If there were tax measures to allow employees to split income with their wives and children, I’d support that preferrably, but I don’t think that’s realistically going to happen.

#49 Ian on 09.10.17 at 6:37 pm

1) Two Happy BoC days coming in October and December
2) OSFI Happy Stress Test soon
3) HELOC damage coming per Garth’s note above
4) FONGO taking hold much as FOMO on the upside

There’s no scenario I see where now -> end of year is not unbelievably bearish.

#50 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.10.17 at 6:41 pm

“June” has got to be a fake – there are no female readers to this blog, only backwards doofus white males, LOL!!

Seriously, though, we just need to treat all dollars equally.

Allow reasonable deductions for self-employment costs incurred.

So simple.

All of you arguing that we need this extra special complicated tax code so you can sprinkle and hide your earnings are sooooo obvious –

– just a bunch of whimpering princesses.

And you complain about “SJWs” and their “complaining” !?

Gimme a break – LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

The best disinfectant is always sunlight – our tax code has been in the dark for far too long.

WAY TO GO JUSTIN AND BILL!!!!!!

#51 Dan.t on 09.10.17 at 6:41 pm

To a certain extent, yes I am drunk in Europe, but that message seems to me that Canadians are finally waking up to the stupidity and tyranny that has been right before your eyes for years.

It has been blatantly obvious from 2004 on, the plan was to pump RE and use debt to do it…not only did the masses (herd) follow but they followed over the cliff. (well, at least I guess we will see, maybe it is different in Canada and BC and GTA).

PLUS… tax the s”t out of everyone, because now they are so in debt, they have no choice but to work and suck it up. Tax anyone but not those who are really running the show…

sounds paranoid but, don’t worry, they will make fun of conspiracy theorist, so no one will pipe up and call a spade a spade…sorry, don’t rock the boat in Canada…did I say sorry yet?

I have the feeling, you can do anything to Canadians, and they will shrug it off, a resilient bunch. Houses in Abby cost 980k (ave wages, 55k), no biggie, YVR crack shack, 1.9M (ave house income 72k), no biggie, bread costs ? ave min wage ?, just push, and push and no one says anything.

Cost of everything rising, but wages stagnant and taxes rising…cool. Then again, I have been away all my working years, so maybe another blog dog can say I’m crazy…maybe Canada is truly paradise? I only know BC… and what has happened there the last 15 years and find I find it f***kin Nuts.

When I write somewhat discombobulated comments, It’s because I think things can be so much better… but maybe I’ve been away too long and all is ok.

PS. You deserve the government you elect.

#52 Stone on 09.10.17 at 6:43 pm

#8 Cecil Henry

3. REDUCE government expenditure permanently by 20% over 4 years. That’s 5% per year. Then directly reduce income taxes proportionally. REDUCE ALL income taxe by 20% by 2020.

—–

So, you’re proposing gouvernment slash spending. Ok. That’s fantastic! I think they’ll do that by chopping out hospitals first and the expensive employees that go with them. They’ve done it before. Don’t kid yourself. Low hanging fruit always comes first.

Eliminating taxation is a pretty fantasy. “REDUCE taxes, let people decide and pay for what they want.” I’ve got a quick answer for that one. I don’t want pay for anything but I want it all. Honest. I do. LOL

When I was in university, I took an economics class and I thought the professor was a genius when he said, “Hands up, who agrees with this line? Pay less, get more.” Many hands went up. Then he said “That’s great marketing but utter BS. If any of you believe that, you came to the wrong class as this is economics, not marketing.” 20 years later and I still chuckle about it. Absolute genius.

I don’t disagree that there’s plenty of waste in gouvernment but you don’t trim it by using a blunt instrument as you appear to indicate.

Cecil, I think you let your schooling get in the way of your education. Schooling (aka brainwashing) and education are not the same thing. Ultimately, if you want to affect change in gouvernment, you need to become one of the elected and I’m sure Garth will agree, it ain’t easy.

#53 yorkville renter on 09.10.17 at 6:44 pm

#3 – if your CEO has but 1 client (your employer), the CRA treats the income just like a salary… maybe you know enough about the situation to be dangerous, but not enough to be right

#54 Linda on 09.10.17 at 6:49 pm

I think June has nailed it – while I have no doubt there will be many comments about knowing someone who uses the system to undue advantage, I think the vast majority of small business owners are not scamming the system in any way. Nor are they ‘rich’ by the definition of a number of financial publications. To be considered ‘rich’ is to have at least $10 million (probably 15 or 20 by now) in assets above & beyond any personal residence that may be owned as per various articles I read a few years ago. Even someone earning $225,000 plus per annum is not likely to attain the ‘rich’ designation any time soon.

Regarding the cooling off of the housing market, I would expect it to take a lot longer than a year or two before average incomes would support purchasing a house. Either the prices would have to drop by another 50 to 60 percent or wages would have to take off like a rocket. Prices may continue to decrease but wages are not likely to increase at an exponential rate any time soon.

#55 Howard on 09.10.17 at 6:50 pm

#34 Old Ron the Realtor on 09.10.17 at 5:59 pm
Well it looks like this Blog is being taken over by “neo-con fringe” Too bad it was fun for a while. Have fun folks buh-bye.

—————————

LOL. Do you even know what neo-conservatism is?

Here’s a tip old man, don’t use words you don’t understand.

#56 Dolce Vita on 09.10.17 at 6:51 pm

#49 Ian

You are so wrong.

Economic fundamentals do not apply to YVR RE because (hair toss backwards) like…it’s different here in Never Ever Land. As if…

#57 Dolce Vita on 09.10.17 at 7:00 pm

#51 Dan.t

You’re not nuts. Agree completely.

Besides, anyone that is plastered in Europe but can manage to type:

discombobulated

deserves some form of respect.

Happy Hangover Tommorow!

Hair of the dog…

#58 Howard on 09.10.17 at 7:01 pm

#36 Garth’s daydream on 09.10.17 at 6:02 pm
June for MP! Are you in?

—-

For which party, though?

Conservatives? I didn’t see them to take on Bay Street CEOs and KPMG’s off-shore clients.

NDP? No thanks…

What are you suggesting then?
In Canada a party should pre-approve a candidate, they can’t just “trump” the system.

————————————

Eventually, there will be a party, or a candidate for one of the existing major parties, whose policies are geared towards Canada First. And he or she will strike a chord in the electorate. Not unlike Trump, sure, but preferably not so narcissistic or borderline psychopath.

Canada’s a little slower than the rest of the Western world, but there will certainly be a backlash against globalism. Perhaps it’s fitting that PM excrement-for-brains won; we needed the very worst intellectually flyweight anti-Canada globalist in power to wake people up.

#59 Penny Henny on 09.10.17 at 7:06 pm

So many questions. So many realtor Audis about to be returned.-Garth

//////////

Attention all realtors!
Who ya gonna call?
Lease Busters, ask to speak with Andy.

#60 not 1st on 09.10.17 at 7:08 pm

As a small business owner who took on 100 times more risk than salaried zombies who dont know jack about business, I will respond to T2s tax grab by not hiring anybody anymore. See how they like that trickle up effect.

#61 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 7:08 pm

#53 yorkville renter on 09.10.17 at 6:44 pm
#3 – if your CEO has but 1 client (your employer), the CRA treats the income just like a salary… maybe you know enough about the situation to be dangerous, but not enough to be right
___________________________________________

The CEO sits on the board of other companies and the board fees are paid to Corp as well.

Name him and the organization. If it is a matter of public record, you are entitled to do so. Otherwise you blow smoke. — Garth

#62 DON on 09.10.17 at 7:11 pm

June for MP – YUP!

Nicely done!

#63 X on 09.10.17 at 7:11 pm

Personally I hope the Liberals have underestimated how much these changes will effect the next election. Some Dr’s I have spoken with say this may be enough for them to never vote Liberal again. Ever. Regardless of future issues.

Given the amount of money at play here for the Dr Tax…..500 million is the rumored amount I hear the changes will bring in the form of extra tax revenue….not sure how many voters they figure it will affect, but the Ontario Liberal government cancelled 2 gas plants, that cost about a billion for the sake of saving a couple of seats in gov’t…however it doesn’t appear they are going to back down on this one.

Hoping they come to their senses and have a ‘fair’ way to assess if the family member contributes to the business. (I mean shouldn’t I be able to pay my wife for her work for the business, if we ever divorce she gets half anyways)

And perhaps have a dollar limit for the regular business tax, then anything above the limit is taxed higher. You have to let businesses keep funds for lean years, and equipment purchases.

Although that is just wishful thinking….we are governed by a leader who learned his math in drama class.

#64 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 7:12 pm

#53 yorkville renter on 09.10.17 at 6:44 pm
#3 – if your CEO has but 1 client (your employer), the CRA treats the income just like a salary… maybe you know enough about the situation to be dangerous, but not enough to be right
___________________________________________

And that is not true anyways. Real Estate brokers have income from but one client (Their brokerage) but PRECs income is not treated the same as salary. Many 6 and 7 figure real estate brokers in BC exploiting the benefits of PRECs while creating no jobs.

#65 not 1st on 09.10.17 at 7:17 pm

And at the same time as the tax grab comes here is the real legacy of this govt. Billions of investment dollars chased away.

http://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/trudeaus-sad-legacy-billions-in-energy-infrastructure-spending-scuttled-on-his-watch

#66 Ret on 09.10.17 at 7:18 pm

“Ontario announced Friday it’ll take over drug dealing.”

I give it six months until the criminal cartels that have taken over 1/3 of the cigarette sales in Ontario become major underground distributors and sellers of the herb.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/contraband-cigarettes-ontario-1.3948898

#67 Triplenet on 09.10.17 at 7:21 pm

In my geographic location it took ~15 years from trough to peak (plus/minus) to where we are today.
The last cycle took ~7 years to regain value traction – trough to growth .
Can one extrapolate or interpolate, if you know how, to anticipate future market movement?
….. I bet you can’t.
And put BC Assessment values to bed. They mean nothing. Perhaps some salient information is helpful but thats all.

#68 JSS on 09.10.17 at 7:22 pm

You guys can keep crying in your beer, but the decision has been made. You rich old boys will need to pay up. More.

Go JT go!

#69 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 7:27 pm

No Payments on LOC. Really?

We know almost half the folks with HELOCs don’t make regular repayments – principal or interest.

***********************************
I would bet money that this is not quite true.

I suspect there is a group that pays interest only monthly but later reborrows that. That is paying in form if not in substance. Some (many) people would pay principal and interest monthly but reborrow that by year end so that the balance is not falling. That is paying in form if not in substance.

I would be shocked and would lose said bet if there are actually many (any?) lenders allowing absolutely no payments. No way that is close to half the folks with HELOCs. I know some source said that a month or so ago but I doubt that they truly meant zero payments. I think they meant zero progress on paying it down over a year. That’s different.

Am I wrong, if so these would be equity lines of credit. Still very very hard to believe. If true, who are the lenders? I mean this is like a CHP reverse mortgage!

But yes at the end of day lots of people in hock to eyeballs so could be ugly.

#70 Island Car Dude on 09.10.17 at 7:35 pm

OK, this might be totally wrong, but the recent experience I’m having trying to sell two cars out on the Island is very strange. To me, it means that the average dude has zero cash. Here’s the story:

I’ve been trying to sell two vehicles, both great early 2000’s vehicles and have been in desirable market segments over the past few years (I’ve kept track of prices while I owned them just for fun). Both are mechanically excellent, superbly maintained, excellent drivers, etc. All my friends ooh and ahh over both and say they’re like new (and they are).

But now, time for both vehicles to move along, so I put them for sale at what looks like realistic pricing as I do want to sell them. And… crickets….

The few that have made offers have been so low-ball that they’re approaching junkyard values, all without even seeing the vehicles. Now, I’ve bought and sold tons of cars over the years so I’m fairly certain my pricing is close to market.

The thing I wonder is whether these vehicles have slipped into no-man’s land; they’re too old to finance and too expensive for someone to pay cash for. To me, I think that it shows that Joe and Jane average really have no cash. They can still afford to borrow and finance, but scraping up several grand to pay cash for something is impossible.

Anybody selling vehicles noticing the same thing or am I nuts?

#71 Last of the Boomers on 09.10.17 at 7:36 pm

@#47 Jim

Yes Jim, I am seeing the same thing. My well balanced and diversified portfolio ha dropped just over 2percent from it’s peak in the late spring/early summer. I am hoping this is a seasonal cycle and am waiting for a hopeful return to normal after October.

What say you other blog dogs and those more independent investors (eg. stock picker, turner nation, investors friend, and all you other savvy investors out there)?

#72 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 7:37 pm

Tax (ahem) Managment

The CEO of a Venture exchange company called Ceapro gets his “salary” and incentive compensation as consulting fees pid to his corporation. His name is Gilles Gagnon. This is public in their annual circular. See page 9 and the notes there. Presumably he will have no trouble with me mentioning it.

I own shares in the company (which has been a stinker of late). I find the arrangement curious. I am scheduled to talk to him soon. Hope he will still take my call.

#73 NoName on 09.10.17 at 7:38 pm

#69 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 7:27 pm

I suspect there is a group that pays interest only monthly but later reborrows that.

There is even better/funnier way of paying heloc, depositing a heloc cheque, and using that deposit as payment.

#74 young & foolish on 09.10.17 at 7:40 pm

This blog is proof democracy doesn’t really work. People cry about taxes, but then are first in line for government services when the chips are down.

#75 Dave on 09.10.17 at 7:48 pm

I like the way you cherry pic to make a point. I paid over $200 to get my teeth cleaned–the dentist wasn’t even involved. Most dentists make more than 95% of the population, of course they will struggle for a few years after school to pay off debt, but they still end up making far more than most of us–even some financial advisors!

#76 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 7:50 pm

Governments Enjoy Vice

Ontario announced Friday it’ll take over drug dealing.

*************************************

True and most shameful. And they said they will shut all the little guys that were in the market and built up the market or the government to grab.

Alcohol sales was illegal in Canada. Then the government took it over and made drinking it mainstream and respectable. (Like cigarettes, lawsuits will come one day)

Lotteries were mostly illegal in Canada until the government took it over and blew it up to massive size and then (with stunning lack of care about the impact) ran ads to absolutely encourage people to buy tickets.

It disgusts me that the government would run ads implying people have any real chance of winning loto 649. People have little clue of how slim odds of 1 in 14.4 million are. Picture your self in an arena of 14,400 people and look at all those people and ponder your chances of winning the 50/50. Next picture only one winner in 1000 such arena. You ain’t gonna win, ever, and you know it. But the government runs ads pretending you can win. Yes and you can be stuck by lightening tomorrow and also the next day.

#77 Heather Hallam on 09.10.17 at 7:55 pm

I am not a business owner and never was but I certainly can understand their angst. I didn’t vote for the Liberals in 2015 and the way things are going I won’t be voting for them in the next election. I was angry over the tax-free money being dished out to families just because they have kids. This includes households that have an income up to $150,000 a year. This latest action against small business owners is just more to anger taxpayers. Also, I have been a caregiver to my parents for over eleven years and there’s nothing for caregivers that doesn’t involve the income of the person(s) they are caregiving. I have written to and emailed the federal government and they don’t listen to me either. So, I have a few reasons to not support the Liberals.

#78 OttawaMike on 09.10.17 at 7:56 pm

The working class making $60k/yr get no similar break nor do they get a pension in almost every case today.

What is wrong with making the tax system more equitable?
Also as I have illustrated in past posts with links to 2 different websites showing spreadsheets 25 years out, the real people affected are not the $250k/yr. earners but the multi-million dollar incorporated individuals.

I seriously doubt that June has done the math on how much this is costing her..

#79 Mark on 09.10.17 at 8:01 pm

“Am I wrong, if so these would be equity lines of credit. Still very very hard to believe. If true, who are the lenders? I mean this is like a CHP reverse mortgage!”

I think what is being said here is that lenders are completely tolerating people borrowing from the HELOC, to make payments on the HELOC. The balance just increasing, rather than being paid down in an orderly fashion.

Certainly it can’t be hard to fashion an algorithm to detect when this is occurring, ie: HELOC balances that never do meaningfully decline, for instance. Or people withdrawing, say, a wad of currency at a bank ABM, and immediately re-depositing currency with identical serial numbers.

Of course, the banks turn a blind eye to the practice, at the moment, because its a lot easier to let these people rack up credit, than it is to employ salesforces to sell more credit. But as Garth points out, people are getting increasingly closer to hitting the wall. When this happens, when credit is exhausted, demand will be incredibly weak in the Canadian economy. Hence, deflation and a much higher CAD$, as I’ve argued much to the chagrin of others here for the past few years as the outcome.

No Canadian should ever cheer a tax increase.

Its not a tax increase. Its tax fairness, enforcement of existing rules and principles around transactions between related entities, which, by law, must be record at fair market value. “Income sprinkling” could be attacked by the CRA with rules and jurisprudence already on the books relating to related party transactions.

#80 Spock on 09.10.17 at 8:02 pm

#24 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 09.10.17 at 5:46 pm

I thought this moron was banned for whining.

#24 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 09.10.17 at 5:46 pm
I’m so sick of these whiny snowflake small business owners. Quit your bitching, suck it up buttercup and pay your damn taxes.

#81 Sydneysider on 09.10.17 at 8:04 pm

“I took on all these risks”

What is the risk in being a dentist? The “worst” that can happen is that you have to practice in a rural area, which might prove a blessing in disguise. Compare this with the risk of normal employment in the private sector, which retrenches many in their 50s.

The writer should stop worrying about her future, and concentrate on being an excellent dentist. Dentists with good reputations are highly valued and will do well in life. So well, that they don’t have to worry about taxes.

#82 Mark on 09.10.17 at 8:07 pm

“And at the same time as the tax grab comes here is the real legacy of this govt. Billions of investment dollars chased away.”

Northern Gateway and the Pacific Northwest LNG projects died due to economics and very poorly thought out project definitions. Even the Harper Government, which was heralded as a bastion of oil and gas industry supporters, wasn’t able to stomach Northern Gateway, and thus provided an ‘approval’ that was so riddled with impossible-to-meet conditions that it was pretty much a disapproval in very thin disguise.

Trudeau can’t be faulted for Pacific Northwest LNG. Not only was it an incredibly wasteful project (20-30% of the gas would disappear in the process of piping it for conversion into LNG and tankering it overseas!), but the economics sucked.

The only pipeline project that might be blamable on Trudeau Jr. will be Energy East, if it actually fails. The irony here is that Trudeau Sr. actually advocated for such a project, with the National Energy Plan, so it would be quite something if the son killed his father’s dream.

#83 Lost...but not leased on 09.10.17 at 8:10 pm

Title of today’s sermon is “Divide and Conquer”…

This is typical Trudeau-esque strategy.

FerFook’sSake…Gov’t sets the rules/policies/laws..etc…. either actively or by default.

The RE porn was simply bread and circuses engineered by Gov’t to the masses….nothing like the perception of wealth…..that or any other such agenda has a politicized shelf life till it reaches a critical mass of collapse….that creates Divide and Conquer 2.0 ” haves ” and ” have nots “…

Then the Gov’t sees another opportunity to deflect attention and criticism with taxation changes….hit the nail that sticks up so its level with the rest. The RE porn was literally and figuratively based on monopoly money.

PS does anybody get it…..that Gov’ts goal is to manouver the collapse society into an equality of lowest common denominator dependent on Big Brother…..everyone is a loser as opposed to everyone is a winner.

#84 Taxpayer on 09.10.17 at 8:14 pm

She’s aggrieved and wanted to write T2’s money guy, Bill Morneau. “I was trying to tell them, look, I’m not rich, these other guys are. Look, this isn’t fair, I took on all these risks and expenses and extra work that salaried people didn’t.
Sorry June…. risk is working 3 min wage jobs to support your family, taking public transit to these jobs…not knowing if your kids are in with the wrong crowd while you are at work…and paying ‘ALL’ the taxes on income earned. If it eats at you so much…get a salaried job.

#85 AB Boxster on 09.10.17 at 8:15 pm

Every time there is a Trudeau in power the country begins to fall apart.
With T1 it was the NEP to steal the wealth of Albertans so that eastern Canada could have cheap oil.
And the ‘Why should I sell your wheat’ BS.

Then there were the obvious concessions to quebec at the expense of the other provinces. Cuz that is the power base.

And of course the massive deficit that Canada had in the 70s, 80s and 90’s.

Now you have T2 trying to finish off the country.
Killing every possible way for Alberta to get their product to tidewater.
Sucking up to Quebec and BC for their social licence bs.

Penalizing every province that sells energy that comes from the ground, all the while growing any industry in Ontario or Quebec(auto manufacturing, industrial manufacturing, aerospace) that actually burns the fuel and creates the pollution. They are hypocrites beyond belief.

And while ensuring that while many Albertans try to live on $7 a day, Quebecers are able to send their kids to caycare for $7 a day.

Sucking weallth from the west, and sending it east. Refusing to buy alberta oil, yet shipping it in from Saudi Arabia, or any other shithole that the east can get it from.

And now pitting the ‘rich’ canadians against the so called middle class.

Every time there is a Liberal government in this country it shows how federalism has failed.

East vs West.
Rich vs poor.
Millenial vs boomer.
White vs every other victim group that the Liberals SJWs have identified.

This country is broken.
And Trudeau will likely break it for good.

#86 Michael Motorcycle on 09.10.17 at 8:22 pm

Garth,

The ripple, if any, of people taking equity in their houses over 2017/2018 – will this have a trickle down affect to smaller cities and keep housing inflated?

ex. Sell Vancouver to take equity, buy Okanagan.

Thank you

#87 Brydle604 on 09.10.17 at 8:22 pm

June you have hit the nail on the head!

I’m In.

#88 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 8:25 pm

When will market returns be normal?

#71 Last of the Boomers on 09.10.17 at 7:36 pm
@#47 Jim

Yes Jim, I am seeing the same thing. My well balanced and diversified portfolio ha dropped just over 2percent from it’s peak in the late spring/early summer. I am hoping this is a seasonal cycle and am waiting for a hopeful return to normal after October.

What say you other blog dogs and those more independent investors (eg. stock picker, turner nation, investors friend, and all you other savvy investors out there)?

*******************************************
I don’t think there is anything remotely unusual about a 2% drop in a balanced portfolio.

The return will be positive over time but no one can predict when it will rise.

Trying to predict cycles is a complete waste of time.

#89 Keith in Calgary on 09.10.17 at 8:27 pm

I wonder how many of the stuck pigs whining here have actually owned and run a small business ?

I am still waiting for someone to post that they went into business for themselves…….TO MAKE EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY……that they would have as an employee.

Anyone ?????? Anyone at all ?????

***crickets***

Making 4-5 times as much money (which is what I did) was my reward for the “risk” of opening and running my small business. What is fair is that we all pay the same % amount of tax, based on our income levels. This is not a political position based on where you stand.

Suck it up buttercup.

#90 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 8:31 pm

HELOC Madness

No Name above has it right.

My experience was if you pay $6000 on your HELOC one month (minimum payment say $200) and then forget to make a payment the next month you get a call from the bank. But literally take out cash from the LOC and deposit it back in and the computers are fine. No call. The guy paying his LOC with his LOC looks like a better risk than the guy who makes HUGE lumpy payments and skips the odd month.

You obviously don’t have one, so why comment as if you do? There are no regular payments required for most HELOCs, with accrued interest being added to the borrowed (extended) amount. The bank calls when the line has been fully extended. — Garth

#91 common sense on 09.10.17 at 8:35 pm

RE: Ontario selling Pot

“But you know this war on drugs it’s funded by the Tobacco and Alcohol Commissions
It’s not what drugs you’re strung out on they care about as much as whose.”

Todd Snider – Tension

Lottery, Booze, Pot, Heroin ( OXYCOTIN) same BS as ever…

#92 Frank Blood on 09.10.17 at 8:48 pm

Re: #45 Tax cheat. My wife has no income as she is contributing to the family taking care of our children and taking an enormous risk that I will not get laid off leaving her with no income but she is not blessed with the ability to split her income with me.

I don’t actually have a problem with income splitting, I think we should be able to split income like in the US. What I have a problem with is one class of people having the ability to do it and not others.”
EXACTLY!! My wife and I did the same thing. She was a stay at home mother for 12 years. We sacrifced a lot. What makes the entremanures so special? If you can income sprinkle we should be able to income split.

#93 Ian on 09.10.17 at 8:49 pm

Just looking at the Sunday night markets as I normally do, and futures showing US stocks up, gold down, so looks like Irma damage not what was expected…I’m asssuming because it went up west coast and not through the FL centre. Although, the video on CNN looks damn bad!

#94 joblo on 09.10.17 at 8:51 pm

85 AB Boxster on 09.10.17 at 8:15 pm

Bang on. Kanada is a fail.

T2 canceling Electorial Reform? Why? Re-election?

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-refo

#95 Dan on 09.10.17 at 8:53 pm

Disclaimer – I’m against a tax on small business, I think this is going to be horrible for the economy.

However, I think this girl is the reason for the tax change.

Why is an employee of a dental practice incorporating? So that the employer can pay her less and she can pay less taxes. They’re exploiting the loop-hole, which is fine, loop-holes are meant to be exploited.

But, I think this is a main reason to close the lope-hole – because it’s actually changing peoples choices.

#96 StandardDeviation on 09.10.17 at 8:57 pm

Lets throw a left fielder in for Prime Minister Zoolander and His ballast mate Mornau; Lets level the playing field for every self employed person and private sector employee and grant the same generous pension contributions that our public sector brothers and sisters receive. Actually, it should be even more because of the inconsistencies associated with private sector investment opportunities. Then we can discuss the Holistic nature of employment equity.

#97 Mattl on 09.10.17 at 8:59 pm

Burbs of Van are still very hot. Relative had an open house this weekend is valley burb 40 mins from Vancouver. They had 74 people through over the weekend – 50 today – to see a 40 yo home on 6k sqft lot. Expecting multiples this week over 1mm.

Are homes in the GTA really down close to 30%? Can you really pick up a good home in a good neighbourhood for 30 percent less the April? Would love to see some nice homes that have rolled over twice in the last 90 days that sold second time around for 30 percent less. Because here on the ground in greater van anything under 1.5 that is quality is selling no problem, no matter what Zolo or the Pink Pollen guy says. I really question where all these deals are, for nice homes well under spring prices.

#98 Lost...but not leased on 09.10.17 at 9:00 pm

JUNE for MP?

Aim lower..Maybe for Liberal Prime Minister….???

I could never understand why it takes about the same time to become a Dentist (1% of the human body) versus an MD…(99% of human body).

Trudeau strategy was to cater to urban centers in Eastern Canada…the “abscess teeth” of Confederation.

There are numerous professional skills overlaps and redundancies in our society…which if properly vetted could result in substantial savings to subsequently apply to the gods of RE.

#99 not 1st on 09.10.17 at 9:04 pm

DELETED

#100 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 9:10 pm

HELOC Debate

You obviously don’t have one, so why comment as if you do? There are no regular payments required for most HELOCs, with accrued interest being added to the borrowed (extended) amount. The bank calls when the line has been fully extended. — Garth

***************************************
I have a secured LOC at HSBC that I use occasionally and have had for ten years. That would be a HELOC. Minimum monthly payments (probably interest only) are due and they have called me when I missed a payment even though a month prior I made a very large payment.

I have an unsecured LOC at TD Bank that has minimum payments of principal and interest. Occasionally I missed a payment over the years and I have received a call on occasion.

Does anyone on this blog have an HELOC that requires no payments until it reaches the limit. What bank? links?

I apologize for mixing LOC in with HELOC in my comments. An error on my part. I am remain shocked if anything close to half of HELOCs require no payments. For what it is worth, Mark seemed to agree with my understanding.

That’s the kiss of death. — Garth

#101 Lee on 09.10.17 at 9:12 pm

#19 Snake,

JT probably has more than 40% support right now. Usually 35% is enough for a majority in Canada.

#102 Andrew Woburn on 09.10.17 at 9:13 pm

I know it’s right un-neighbourly to accuse our US cousins of hypocrisy but its hard for a feller to restrain himself sometimes.

We are accused of unfair competition by letting our governments subsidize lumber exports because they are not charging enough stumpage fees. Tribunals which have examined this allegation have always disagreed.

But any American manufacturer has access to a subsidy on exports by way of a reduction on taxes which can cut their tax bill in half. Does that help sharpen their pencil against Canadian competitors?

All they have to do is to set up an “IC-DISC” – Interest-Charge Domestic International Sales Corporation. This allows them to have the tax on 50% of their export income reduced by more than 50%. Half of their profit is taxed at the dividend rate (currently 15%) as opposed to ordinary income tax rates.

Three types of businesses potentially qualify for the IC-DISC tax benefit:

1) A company that directly exports goods it manufactures. Example: Company X manufactures widgets in Ohio and ships to Canada. This can include software, films and many agricultural products.

2) A company provides architectural or engineering services that are conducted in the U.S. for a building/bridge built outside of the U.S.

3) A company manufactures a good that is included in a product that is exported where a company makes a component part that is included in a good that is exported.

So are we mutts for negotiating NAFTA in good faith when this is going on? How do we sustain manufacturing in Canada with this kind of a loaded gun pointed at our heads? We have a tax break for manufacturing profits but it is trivial by comparison and is narrow in its application.

I have a modest suggestion for ending the lumber dispute. Lets crank up the stumpage fees to a level American producers can’t argue with and then give Canadian lumber producers a tax break on exports. That’s Fair Trade, American style. What’s not to like?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/deanzerbe/2011/03/29/ic-disc-the-big-tax-break-for-exporters/#2802c05b3f09

#103 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 9:15 pm

Income Tax Management for the Elite

I noticed a few years ago that some companies were paying director compensation in the form of deferred share units that allowed the directors to defer taxes on this compensation for years.

Meanwhile the rank and file employees paid taxes annually on their compensation.

Tax strategies for the elite abound.

The government is right to change the rules once in a while to try to prevent this sort of tax avoidance.

How is that different from your beloved tax-avoidance device, the RRSP? Everyone pays in the end. — Garth

#104 M on 09.10.17 at 9:17 pm

Canadians are prime ripped for communism.

Appears that all have a problem with “the rich” whatever that stamp entitles.
Appetite for revolt-> minimal

Great show ahead. It’s good though. People believing that gov has their best interest at heart, believe in carbon as green house gas, man made global warming…and generally believing all the garbage CBC,CTV and similar southen crap are also the ONES paying for the Gov follies.

I never heard these morons voicing anything when Canada entered Afganistan or bombed Libya (4 shitty planes and 2.5 billion dollars)
Now…when public finances are in shambles… they want “the rich”.

Good job mindless herd !

#105 Andrew Woburn on 09.10.17 at 9:17 pm

First the cashiers, then the hookers. The march of automation spares no one.

“Brothels dumping prostitutes in favour of sex robots as latest model ‘moans'”

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/643384/Sex-robots-dolls-brothel-prostitutes-buy-video

#106 FOUR FINGERS WATSON on 09.10.17 at 9:20 pm

#94 joblo on 09.10.17 at 8:51 pm
85 AB Boxster on 09.10.17 at 8:15 pm

Bang on. Kanada is a fail.

T2 canceling Electorial Reform? Why? Re-election?

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-refo
……………………………
He got a majority government with 39% of the popular vote, which means that 61% of voters did not vote for him. Why would he change anything ?

#107 dakkie on 09.10.17 at 9:24 pm

Toronto Housing Market Is CRASHING! – The Bubble Is Bursting!
http://investmentwatchblog.com/toronto-housing-market-is-crashing-the-bubble-is-bursting/

#108 Sold out in Vancouver on 09.10.17 at 9:26 pm

@70 Island Car Dude

Your not nuts.
Very few have cash to spend of anything used, this is due to longer monthly loans and low interest.
It’s nuts how far in debt some people are.
No money down !!! No Payments till 2018 !!!
Add $10,000 cash to the car loan for a boat !!!
Ring any bells ?
Craigslist looks like a player piano most days

M54BC

#109 Financial Terrorism on 09.10.17 at 9:26 pm

Well I agree with her that the government should go after accounts in Tax Secrecy Jurisdictions.

Most people only know of the Cayman Island and Switzerland, but there are 65 of these Tax Secrecy Jurisdictions around the world! (at my last count).

Most people also don’t realize that the actually money is stored locally in safe places like Toronto or Manhattan. Only the paper work gets sent abroad. Yup, financial raping at its best.

#110 young & foolish on 09.10.17 at 9:31 pm

“Real estate in the country’s biggest market is well and truly croaked after last week’s rate hike. ” — GT

Rates are on the rise, but does anybody really think they have much higher to go? If people are having trouble now with debt, would the Feds not be pushing the economy into recession after a couple of more increases?

I suspect the mortgage qualification standards about to be introduced are so that rates need not have to rise much further.

The federal government does not set rates. — Garth

#111 burnaby guy on 09.10.17 at 9:31 pm

I don’t think there is anything remotely unusual about a 2% drop in a balanced portfolio.

The return will be positive over time but no one can predict when it will rise.

Trying to predict cycles is a complete waste of time.

————-

That’s why I posted before you can’t rely on the 6% return of a balanced portfolio to pay rent or living expenses as Garth suggested because the return doesn’t come in like clockwork.

Amateur mistake. You don’t spend what comes in the door every 30 days, but rather have an annual program of return of capital draws and investment return replacements. Get some help. — Garth

#112 NoName on 09.10.17 at 9:36 pm

@ 70 used car dude

i red this few day ago

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/your-car-is-now-worth-less-than-you-think

and click on 10yrs chart
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/total-vehicle-sales

#113 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 9:38 pm

I’m Not Gonna Take It Any Longer

I feel a bit unfairly abused by Garth’s suggestion that I don’t have a HELOC and should not be commenting.

I feel like I have contributed to the discussion on this blog quite a bit over the years. I NEVER say anything that I don’t think is true.

The blog is never dependent on any one of us regular commenters but together we contribute to the blog.

Garth can be thin-skinned (so can I) and so I often watch what I say.

In any event feeling a bit abused and wanting to stop wasting so much time here — I hereby pledge not to comment again before 2018 rolls around. (Meanwhile, anyone know a good 12 step program to get me out permanently?)

You fell off the wagon twice before, no? — Garth

#114 NoName on 09.10.17 at 9:40 pm

@ 70 used car dude

and this

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-17/new-u-s-subprime-boom-same-old-sins-auto-defaults-are-soaring

#115 Long Branch Apprentice on 09.10.17 at 9:46 pm

Canadian politicians are dangerously out of touch with the population, even by their lofty standards. Did they learn nothing from the election of Trump? Apparently not.

More and more people are getting more and more angry.

Not only that, but they are getting more and more open about it too. Lots of “Ontario Just Can’t Wynne” signs, and “Make Trudeau a Drama Teacher Again” stickers on pickup truck tailgates.

So long as the average Canadian is completely F$#@ing clueless about finance and economics, he/she/zee will continue to be powerless.

#116 FTE on 09.10.17 at 9:47 pm

#60 not 1st

As a small business owner who took on 100 times more risk than salaried zombies who dont know jack about business, I will respond to T2s tax grab by not hiring anybody anymore. See how they like that trickle up effect.
—————————–

Sure. That’s like an employee saying, “A raise? No thank you. That’ll put me into a higher tax bracket.”

If you think that another employee will improve your profits, you’ll hire them. Saying otherwise make you sound foolish. As it is you’re pretty disrespectful to working men and women, comparing them to zombies and all.

#117 B on 09.10.17 at 9:48 pm

Garth, do you have a source for this? Hard to believe Canadians are this dumb.

“But wait. We know almost half the folks with HELOCs don’t make regular repayments – principal or interest. Every month the size of their borrowing simply increases by the unpaid interest, until the debt limit is achieved. That day is now coming a lot faster.”

Four in 10 borrowers make no regular payments. Source. — Garth

#118 Sold out in Vancouver on 09.10.17 at 9:49 pm

On Craigslist Vancouver tonight

cars & trucks: Type in lease take over, 447

Real Estate for sale : Type in assignment, 135

I think SHTF is underway in YVR

M54BC

#119 KLNR on 09.10.17 at 9:53 pm

sooo whats wrong with making the tax system more equitable? hopefully this is only the beginning.
About time JT an co did something.

#120 Leo Trollstoy on 09.10.17 at 9:56 pm

#113 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 9:38 pm

Stop crying already. It’s embarrassing.

Discovered Aberfeldy this weekend. Love it.

#121 ludicrous on 09.10.17 at 9:57 pm

#29 Howard on 09.10.17 at 5:52 pm

the place is a dump. and the newspaper real estate pumping cartel disgracefully publishes this crap. people are congratulating and celebrating this purchase, instead of feeling sorry and embarrassed at the stupid mental situation the govts and the banks have caused. this is hard earned money. you (goc and boc) should all be ashamed of yourselves and may you get what you deserve.

#122 Smoking Man on 09.10.17 at 9:58 pm

Hum funny T2 does not have the nuts to go after ceos of the big banks who’s multi million anual stock options get taxed at 27%

But going after the little guys confescating 73% from their portfolios in there corps.

Can anyone see my middle finger at thought of ever paying a cent in tax again.

Get Dave McKay to pay his fair share and stop driving down middle class wages buy hording on TFW

#123 Lee on 09.10.17 at 10:05 pm

#115 long branch,

How are JT and Wynne out of touch with the electorate? JT came out of nowhere to win after 10 years of PC rule and Wynne and the provincial liberals are low because every party in power eventually has baggage if they’re trying. I vote PC, but JT and Wynne are not out of touch.

#124 X on 09.10.17 at 10:08 pm

re #92 – EXACTLY!! My wife and I did the same thing. She was a stay at home mother for 12 years. We sacrifced a lot. What makes the entremanures so special? If you can income sprinkle we should be able to income split.

Totally agree, why isn’t the public or media on the Liberals about making this available for all. I mean if it is such a good thing, and so unfair for those who can’t do it, why not make things better for the average Canadian and allow if for all. Why not improve our country, by allowing all to have a chance at a better financial well being, than simply tax, tax, tax.

#125 TS on 09.10.17 at 10:10 pm

How can there be this much debate about HELOCs?

MY RBC HELOC pulls the interest out of my RBC Chequing account every month.

I don’t have a choice whether to pay it or not. I could however, pull the money I just paid for Interest out of my HELOC and put it right back in my chequing account so I’m not really paying.

#126 meslippery on 09.10.17 at 10:15 pm

(secured lines are usually demand loans)
Always resisted HELOC in the face of lower rates.
House now paid off still have line of credit unsecured.
Now go ahead and make demands if you like…

#127 Smoking Man on 09.10.17 at 10:15 pm

So I’m in tunica Mississippi living it up on my rbc unsecured credit cards. Was in Biloxi but got booted to make room for Floridians.

Not seeing any racism at all. Blacks holding doors open for whites. Whites holding doors open for blacks. Extremely polite on either side of skin pigmentation.

The entire race narative brought to you by MSM and a globalist agenda to divide and crush.

It’s not working. The bankers love to follow the script from Davos and Bilderberg. Your going to lose.

So I’m on a shit list. What do you think, that would make me shut up..

Morons.

#128 Protea on 09.10.17 at 10:24 pm

June from YVR brillant comment right on the mark .Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

#129 Smoking Man on 09.10.17 at 10:35 pm

The only paying tax risk I have left is sales of deplorables by Dyslexic Smoking Man.

Bahaha haha. Someone please send me CRA s mailing address. I have 22 dollars to send to you.

#130 For those about to flop... on 09.10.17 at 10:37 pm

Pink Lemonade stand in Vancouver.

I was looking to see what was happening on the lower end detached in Vancouver and I came across an old case that I thought I was done with.

I was told they had a deal in place in the Spring but it appears it fell through.

Paid 1.05 in the fall of 2016,they didn’t waste much time to jump on the speculation bandwagon and have had a tough time offloading it considering how low it is on the Vancouver real estate ladder.

This is the price reduction history…

October 2016 ask 1.25

December 2016 ask 1.18

September 2017 1.08

I wrote a post a few weeks ago showing that 33% of the cheapest options in Vancouver had had to lower their price,which is obviously not indicative of a robust market.

I walked by another one of them today on the way up to Fraser st and the for sale signs are gone and are no longer on the market,maybe waiting to see what happens next Spring.

One of the cheapest houses in Vancouver taking the best part of a year to sell and it’s not done yet.

Things that make you go hmmm…

M43BC

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/505-rupert-street

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwMlA4Wg==

#131 CP on 09.10.17 at 10:46 pm

Sounds like June is talking a wealth tax. If so, I’m voting for her! But if not, well, I’m with T2.

Socialism is alive on this blog tonight. Careful what you wish for. — Garth

#132 Pete on 09.10.17 at 10:47 pm

Ret on 09.10.17 at 7:18 pm
“Ontario announced Friday it’ll take over drug dealing.”

I give it six months until the criminal cartels that have taken over 1/3 of the cigarette sales in Ontario become major underground distributors and sellers of the herb.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/contraband-cigarettes-ontario-1.3948898
___________________________________________
Why haven’t they done that with Alcohol? It’s funny watching vested interests complain. Right now its 100% underground. Soon it will be legal and easy to get. Underground is crying because their pie is going to get eaten up where they can’t make money. Some Growers can grow a gram costing $1.50. You will see what economies of scale can do vs criminals

#133 Linda on 09.10.17 at 10:51 pm

Regarding HELOCs & other loan instruments, I know of no circumstances where a minimum monthly payment is not required. Any ‘missed’ monthly payments result in the lender notifying the person owing the sum that their account is in arrears & that penalties will apply. It ‘may’ take as much as 30 days past due before the lender attempts to contact the person/business owing but rest assured, the financial institution does pay attention & will monitor the account to see if further steps need to be taken. Keep in mind that the big banks most definitely are motivated to collect all sums owing – they have profit targets to meet & unless we are being fooled by ‘fake’ news, our Canadian banks are declaring multi-billion dollar profits on a regular basis. I very much doubt they’d let a loan payment slide for long given that track record.

No payments are missed when interest is taken from an account funded by the line. Obvious. — Garth

#134 Manitoba Whale on 09.10.17 at 11:05 pm

#119 KLNR on 09.10.17 at 9:53 pm
sooo whats wrong with making the tax system more equitable? hopefully this is only the beginning.
About time JT an co did something.
*****

Optics.
JT and company did do something, they budgeted billions more than promised putting the country billions more in debt. Perhaps, for sake of argument, that the budget addressed the country’s needs.
As a small business I have many different needs that I can budget for, but obviously we have to take care of the bottom line and have a plan to stay, or sooner or later be, in the black. In the end we make choices we feel are the best that allow us to have a secure future in our industry.
I have lost confidence that the choices that the Federal Liberals are making are in the best interest of the country. Your opinion may differ and that is OK. As the money is being spent, recklessly in my opinion, do you not see that I am offended at being called a tax cheat while obeying all tax laws? That I feel disrespected by the T2/BMO? Take more tax from me, fine JT and co, just show some restraint and perhaps a little respect.
No one wants to pay more tax.

#135 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.10.17 at 11:10 pm

You believe you are scapegoating a group of people that probably would not have voted for you anyway, or is small enough that the loss of their votes does not matter.
————————————————————
A perfect example of someone who only understands part of the picture. The Libs don’t care if they lose votes; all of the parties are controlled from on high by the same invisible hand. The truth of the matter is that when you are implementing a plan to destroy peoples lives (the middle class) you can’t be seen as being a threat to everyone at the same time. So you diffuse the anger of the broader masses by making sure that the destructive policies are seen as being aimed only at a group ‘deserving’ of it. The “hidden-hand” is bent on creating an economic collapse followed by the subjugation of the world into the NWO, and their enablers intend to profit handsomely while carrying out their dastardly plan. It’s a process that must be done gradually, they wouldn’t be able to be sure of their success if they moved too quickly. People have to be duped into agreeing to their plan or they could face a revolt and an awakening of the populace that could set their plan back 100 years.

You need help. — Garth

#136 Fiendish Thingy on 09.10.17 at 11:11 pm

Saw the movie “Tulip Fever” last night; in one scene, during a bulb auction, a tulip speculator says “I subscribe to the theory of the Greater Fool”…

Garth, I hope you are getting royalties from this flick…

#137 Smoking Man on 09.10.17 at 11:12 pm

Globalists, what you don’t seam to understand. You’re diversity and Inclusion screen savers don’t get.

https://youtu.be/Lin-a2lTelg

He understands.

#138 WIN not lose on 09.10.17 at 11:15 pm

118 Sold out in Vancouver

When searching Craigslist use searchtempest.com

Superior search engine.

#139 Julian on 09.10.17 at 11:16 pm

To Investors friend:

I certainly appreciate your contributions to the comments section. I hope you continue to chime in, at least periodically.

#140 Smoking Man on 09.10.17 at 11:21 pm

Yo my wife on this savage road trip

https://youtu.be/NGorjBVag0I

#141 James MF on 09.10.17 at 11:25 pm

In what sense is June a small business owner? She incorporated… herself?… so that she could enjoy the benefits of incorporation? She has education debt and a car, like many others, but seems to suggest her tax burden should be lessened because of the “risks” of gaining an education and owning her own wheels.

If she opened her own practice I would agree she’d taken on risks: investing capital in assets, hiring staff. I don’t see that in her letter.

The small businesses June does work for don’t want to be on the hook or her employee benefits, or be held to employment standards, so they do not “employ” her. This is the avoidance the government should pursue.

Her risk is obvious. No pension, no benefits, no vacation pay, no employer-funded EI or CPP and the constant threat of a contract ending with no notice, severance or alternative comp most salaried people receive. Are you naive, James, or just wilfully blind? — Garth

#142 Smoking Man on 09.10.17 at 11:31 pm

When you figure out where your room is.

https://youtu.be/TT5u2xVEO5M

#143 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 09.10.17 at 11:52 pm

@#80 Spock

This isn’t your safe space Spock. Deal with it.

#144 NoName on 09.10.17 at 11:52 pm

few days old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2NH9aqoipI

#145 Discouraged one on 09.10.17 at 11:53 pm

I am one of those small business owners affected if the new rules are implemented. Oil & Gas, northern AB, 3 partners, all of us had our private corps and teamed up to create another parent-co. We employ 13 guys, all of which were selected for skillset/ experience, and paid accordingly. We all pay a boatload of taxes (employees are all at the highest marginal rate). Us owners were able to push a bit back to our other corps to invest for our eventual retirement, and dividend a reasonable amount to spouses, who also paid their taxes. We are all away from our familes for extended periods of time, and it takes its toll on family, marriages and relationships. This month alone I will miss my 22yr wedding anniversary, and 2 daughters birthdays. The older daughter had a serious issue with substance abuse a few years back. I can tell you that as soon as the public heathcare system finds out you have money and care about your kid, they will have nothing to do with you. They have bigger problems, and you can afford private care so off you go, fix your own problems. Same deal with education, no student loans for my kids, as I make make too much money… I guess my point is, after paying 6 figures in taxes to fund a system turns me away every chance they get is a bit hypocritical IMO. And no, that 60K for the daughters rehab was not tax deductible either. If I get any more discouraged and decide to walk away from all of this, due to more and more government intervention, there will be 13 high taxpayers that will be unemployed. But don’t worry I won’t get EI, as I don’t even qualify…

M45BC

#146 Spock on 09.10.17 at 11:55 pm

I am on board with T2 that things need to be fair so the following should be implemented after a 72 day consultation:

For all current employees – everyone becomes self employed:

1. No EI
2. No paid vacations. All vacations have to be unpaid.
3. No paid sick days
4. No pension plans or matching from employer or tax payer
5. No benefits unless you pay for it 100%. Also no pre existing coverage exclusion.
6. Need to pay 9.9% for CPP
7. No severance
8. No unions
9. Find your own skill set and arrange for your own contract.
10. If going on a conference etc. You have to spend your own money.

I think the above is pretty fair to start. Dog eat dog world.

#147 Fake News Again on 09.10.17 at 11:56 pm

I wonder if the large majority of Govt workers that frequent this blog are starting to crap their pants as the plebs get ever restless at the way Govt “rules” over us with greater and greater frequency using among other things taxation.

#148 Nick on 09.10.17 at 11:56 pm

Stumbled upon this in the comments section of the CBC article about Canada’s economy adding jobs in August.

I thought it was worth sharing.

http://projects.thestar.com/temp-employment-agencies/index.html

#149 Screwed Canadian Millenial on 09.10.17 at 11:59 pm

@#122 Smoking (too much substance) Man

Get Dave McKay to pay his fair share and stop driving down middle class wages buy ho(a)rding on TFW

——-

Well I agree with you on that you crazy old bastard.

#150 Smoking Man on 09.11.17 at 12:10 am

To mark

https://youtu.be/g3ENX3aHlqU

#151 Frank on 09.11.17 at 12:26 am

Think of the small businesses about to get hurt the most: realtors!!

All this talk about doctors and no one thinks about the real estate professionals.

#152 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.11.17 at 12:43 am

Or people withdrawing, say, a wad of currency at a bank ABM, and immediately re-depositing currency with identical serial numbers.
———————————————————-
It’s starting to sink in with people. Yes, ATM’s do record the serial number of all of the bills given to you. So do the fancy machines in the banks from which the tellers retrieve your funds. So if you don’t want a paper trail linking you with some ‘questionable’ people you handed your money to, go to the teller and ask for $100 bills, then as you break them (on purchases of such staples as gas, and groceries) the bills that you get in change won’t be linked to you. You can keep 2 sections in your wallet, one for the direct-from-the-bank bills and the other for the ‘laundered’ bills.

#153 Wise Guy on 09.11.17 at 12:56 am

My Dad plays with many guys that hide their money in corporations, they have yaughts, 2-3 homes, yet the government doesn’t claw back on any of their pension, but my parents pension is clawed back because they earn too much.
Friends of our family have three kids and they get $22,000/year from the government baby bonus money….we get $800/year. We have a family income of about $95,000, they have a family business inside a corporation. They bring in $200,000/year, but get more government assistance!
There are a lot of families that have taken advantage of the loopholes. I feel physicians are getting a raw deal, but many others are scamming the system!

#154 Wise Guy on 09.11.17 at 1:00 am

Sorry, we only get $8000/year of Canadian child benefit money…friends get $22,000/year. Their business is solely operated by family, yet they write off everything!

#155 bdwy sktrn on 09.11.17 at 2:11 am

first time in 20yrs i had to evict the tenants in the basement.
it feels a bit shitty, as they need a 2br w dog in east van and will feel the recent rise in rents, but it had to be done.
lessons learned;
don’t make ‘friends’ with your tenants.
don’t let small things slide (as you would with friends)
be very careful about having the new bf/gf move in.
This was my (and now their) downfall. The org person was ok, but the new g/f moved in without being properly screened. (turns out she’s a complainer)

my neighbour has rented out old houses for a long time. she had some blunt advice on dealing with complainer tenants. when new ppl are handed the keys she tells them “if it breaks, fix it. if you can’t fix it, get it fixed. if you call me and it’s not an emergency , your notice to vacate starts that moment.”

2 months notice includes a month free rent.(and if i get caught renting again there is a 2month penalty).

as it is near impossible to find a place in that time i offered an extra two months, for a voluntary move out. no free month and i can rent again right away.

full market rent is now about+500/mo over the current rate, so that helps.

truly sucks to be a renter in van.

#156 FTE on 09.11.17 at 3:46 am

“Her risk is obvious. No pension, no benefits, no vacation pay, no employer-funded EI or CPP and the constant threat of a contract ending with no notice, severance or alternative comp most salaried people receive….”

Her ‘risk’ is more than fully compensated by her pay scale. And what salaried job comes without risk of being laid off or terminated? Very few salaried workers in the private sector have a pension. EI and CPP are only partially employer funded. One of the biggest benefits is dental, and I think she’s got that covered.

Let me tell you my situation, as an example of what salaried employees have to deal with. I am a software engineer and a couple of years ago my employer was sold to a large international company. They have presented us with fresh employment contracts. They have written in the bare statutory minimum notice for termination, which tops out at 3 weeks I believe.

Here’s the kicker. They pulled the same scheme at our Kitchener office (mostly customer support, accounting) and after the contracts were signed it wasn’t but a few months later when they shut down the office and terminated almost everyone there. Some long time employees got screwed over big time.

Ok, this is pretty underhanded, but I don’t think it’s all that unusual in today’s globalist business environment. Remember Target? When they went under, the head of Target Canada received a larger compensation package than all of the non executive employees put together. Look at Sears Canada, similar crap is happening again.
It’s simply not reasonable to infer that employees have low risk.

Anyway, obviously I’m having a lot of trouble mustering sympathy for June. It seems her biggest risk is that they develop a vaccine for gum disease. If you wanted to make a case against the new tax measures, Garth, you couldn’t have chosen a worse example.

#157 bdwy sktrn on 09.11.17 at 4:28 am

#70 Island Car Dude on 09.10.17 at 7:35 pm
Now, I’ve bought and sold tons of cars over the years so I’m fairly certain my pricing is close to market.
———————-
the market is screaming at you that you are not ‘close’ to the right price. otherwise you’d be getting calls and buyers coming by.

let me guess , well maintained but high mileage? the latter cancelling out any market value of the former.
are you asking 8-10k for a 15yr old car?

#158 AGuyInVancouver on 09.11.17 at 4:36 am

#8 Cecil Henry

3. REDUCE government expenditure permanently by 20% over 4 years. That’s 5% per year. Then directly reduce income taxes proportionally. REDUCE ALL income taxe by 20% by 2020.
_ _ _
Sure Cec, let’s start with the military shall we? After all when was the last time Canadian Forces were actually used in their intended purpose, defense of the homeland. That is an attack against Canadian soil. 1945? That’s a pretty bad return on investment. All those billions spent and nobody attacking. I know Conservatives will get behind slashing our military spending, right?

#159 BillyBob on 09.11.17 at 5:06 am

#84 Taxpayer on 09.10.17 at 8:14 pm
She’s aggrieved and wanted to write T2’s money guy, Bill Morneau. “I was trying to tell them, look, I’m not rich, these other guys are. Look, this isn’t fair, I took on all these risks and expenses and extra work that salaried people didn’t.
Sorry June…. risk is working 3 min wage jobs to support your family, taking public transit to these jobs…not knowing if your kids are in with the wrong crowd while you are at work…and paying ‘ALL’ the taxes on income earned. If it eats at you so much…get a salaried job.

====================================

Ahhhh…there it is. The Canadian loser mentality in plain view.

Question: if your income prospects are so poor and your employment situation so precarious, why would one choose to start a family? How is this choice the fault or responsibility of others?

I’ve long given up on trying to encourage the “downtrodden” (their own self-perception) to aspire for more than they are, or have. But at the very least perhaps the victims could stop trying to drag everyone down to their level. I was quite poor once. Not any more. But it wasn’t because of government policy – in fact I had to leave Canada to get ahead. I thrived in spite of Canada’s socialism, not because of it.

Socialism (now feeing ever-closer to full Communism) is all about making everyone equal. It probably started out as well-intentioned: provide all with equality of opportunity. Now it has been completely perverted into the entitled mentality of “equality of outcome”. Not the same thing at all.

In other words, if you’re too stupid to become a dentist, you should still be provided the same outcome. By force, if need be. Animal Farm, in real life.

What a terrible, self-defeating path to be headed down. Amazing to see the gleeful posts celebrating it. I can only hope they’re just trolls, but unfortunately probably not. A lot of very envious, nervous, mediocre folks in Canada these days, hoping they can just benefit a little more from people who made different choices from them.

#160 Under radar on 09.11.17 at 6:06 am

Being self employed professional with private corp, I cannot income sprinkle , lawyers in Ontario prohibited . I split income with my wife , she has worked with me for 28 years, T2 not touching that, but other measures like tax on passive surplus seems confiscatory. No government sponsored pension plan no DB pension plan, I am on my own for retirement and I have spent most of my working life thinking about that. It all comes down to this, you know the story about the three little pigs , you choose which house to build .

#161 Kelowna on 09.11.17 at 6:42 am

I find it interesting to read the wide range of views and strong opinions on the proposed tax changes. I would suggest that it is helpful to go back to the basic principles of taxes and if you believe, as I do, that taxes should not be used to advantage or disadvantage any particular group, then removing tax loopholes makes sense. If a government wants to reward / invent a particular group such as small business owners or doctors, there are better and more transparent ways than creating special tax advantages.

#162 maxx on 09.11.17 at 7:28 am

“June for MP! Are you in?”

With both feet.

How difficult can it be to sell “middle class fairness” when the economy’s nowhere near producing sufficient quality jobs, people are up to their proverbial eyeballs in debt, and little (and in many cases, no) opportunity to change their economic predicaments?

All had been relatively quiet on the western front when people had a certain base-level sense of job, income, benefits and/or retirement security. Today, that’s pretty well all been scraped away and we can see the floor under the barrel.

Expensive selfie budgets, outrageous entitlements and pricey, happy-happy-happy parties for the proletariat definitely do not make for middle class fairness.

When people remember the quality of life they had, even two decades ago, they get pretty upset. Someone must surely be to blame? Rather than risk focusing this fury on tpt screwed up the economy – big time, it is deftly guided toward the more successful demographics of society.

Muddle duddle.

#163 maxx on 09.11.17 at 7:36 am

#20 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:36 pm

“1990 will look like a speed bump compared to what is coming.”

Agree, to which I’d add that jobs back then were easier to get and of generally better quality. Soon, people will need to attend college to get qualifications to serve coffee.

#164 Heloc on 09.11.17 at 7:55 am

I have a HELOC through manulife. Zero payments required until it hits the limit.
There you go.

#165 jess on 09.11.17 at 7:56 am

the shoe is on the other foot…
..”Offshore units also allow businesses to maintain high levels of secrecy since businesses are not subject to the same transparency laws that apply in, for example, the UK.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/british-virgin-islands-offshore-haven-where-trillions-are-hidden-2017-6

The BVI government collects more than $200 million in corporate fees every year.

New Bank Leak Shows How Rich Exploit Tax Haven Loopholes

https://www.icij.org/offshore
====================
tax havens need aid -send in the 3d printers!

Branson wants a marshall plan
In a blogpost he writes:

The UK government will have a massive role to play in the recovery of its territories affected by Irma – both through short-term aid and long-term infrastructure spending. The region needs a “Disaster Recovery Marshall Plan” for the BVI and other territories that will aid in recovery, sustainable reconstruction and long-term revitalisation of the local economy. This will have to include building resilience against what is likely to be a higher intensity and frequency of extreme weather events, as the effects of climate change continue to grow.

#166 TurnerNation on 09.11.17 at 8:04 am

Seems IHC9, crossbodershopper are correct.
Two parents earning the new ON min wage of $15 is the way to go. Their kids will score free university tuition!
Plus all the other benefits and grants and rebates.
Kanada: they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work.
Turn NewSpeak on its head: minimum wage = maximum wage. All equal under global corporate nanny state.
The Wifi and home “speakers” [microphones] will keep ThoughtCrimes down.

http://www.cp24.com/news/so-far-185-000-post-secondary-students-in-ontario-have-received-free-tuition-1.3583783

TORONTO – Ontario’s minister responsible for post-secondary education says 185,000 students have received free tuition this year under a new government program.
Advanced Education Minister Deb Matthews is announcing the figures later today, which equal more than a third of all full-time college and university students in Ontario.

***For example, a student going straight from high school to university whose parents make $70,000 could receive $7,300 in grants, which would cover the average cost of tuition, and $8,300 in repayable loans***

#167 2 Cents Canadian on 09.11.17 at 8:06 am

#151 Frank
“Feel sorry for realtors”
Really? Boy are you on the wrong site to scrape up pity for realtors : )
All “commission only” sale people know their odds. And if realtors didn’t sock some money away during the best years in RE history then they deserve what they get. I know many realtors …. I know most said it would never end …. but many actually believed it … and many had geared their expenses to those great income years (very foolish). And if they didn’t sell many houses during those best years? ….. then they should have gotten into other work.

Brave words from someone who does not live on commission. The bulk of realtors have had a disastrous few years – a paucity of listings, then a worsening market. Twenty per cent make 80% of the sales. It is a hard life for most. — Garth

#168 Heloc on 09.11.17 at 8:30 am

I had a heloc from a credit union. I went for month long vacation, when i got back i got a call from credit union stating i missed a heloc payment. You have to make the interest payment each and every month regardless of you being below the maxium credit limit.

It all depends on the terms of the borrowing. Maybe they just don’t trust you. — Garth

#169 Stone on 09.11.17 at 8:35 am

#146 Spock

I am on board with T2 that things need to be fair so the following should be implemented after a 72 day consultation:

For all current employees – everyone becomes self employed:

1. No EI
2. No paid vacations. All vacations have to be unpaid.
3. No paid sick days
4. No pension plans or matching from employer or tax payer
5. No benefits unless you pay for it 100%. Also no pre existing coverage exclusion.
6. Need to pay 9.9% for CPP
7. No severance
8. No unions
9. Find your own skill set and arrange for your own contract.
10. If going on a conference etc. You have to spend your own money.

I think the above is pretty fair to start. Dog eat dog world.

———-

That’s right, throw everyone under the bus. How simplistic and thoughtless. Anyways, gouvernment just cares about the tax dollars that come in to pay for services. You’re deviating from the topic.

But to respond to what you wrote, you believe that everyone should suffer versus everyone should be treated fairly and with dignity if I understand correctly. I hear Venezuala is nice. I recommend you go live there for a while, then come back and let us know if you would like to maintain your position in this debate.

June’s higher compensation mitigates the risk. There’s no question about it.

Looking forward to when this legislation goes through as is along with B-20. Then the whiners can adapt to the new normal.

#170 Stone on 09.11.17 at 8:44 am

#131 CP

Sounds like June is talking a wealth tax. If so, I’m voting for her! But if not, well, I’m with T2.

Socialism is alive on this blog tonight. Careful what you wish for. — Garth

———

You do understand that the wealthy will simply move themselves and their assets to another jurisdiction. They are world citizens and there are many other jurisdictions who would welcome them with open arms. There is no low hanging fruit for the gouvernment to pick and they know it. Their focus is low hanging fruit only and those with limited mobility (ie homeowners). And those homeowners are now stuck where they are as they can’t sell their only asset – their house.

#171 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 9:06 am

#8 Cecil Henry on 09.10.17 at 4:56 pm

Canadians (productive, working people) are fed up with taxation. I did not go to university, get advanced training, take risks, loans, forego spending and sacrifice free time in ORDER TO earn more and THEN have it taxed away to be redistributed to others.

____________________________________________

Plenty of well educated young folks of Canada voted Trudeau. PLENTY.

I’ll bet June did too. Young, female, University educated. This is exactly the demographic that would vote for a dunce cap wearing cement head like T2.

Anyway, if June did vote T2, and she is now really angry about how things turned out, it is cause for some hope.

It means voting en-masse for the biggest douchebag running for PM (like Trudeau) will have a major effect on the electorate in a short period of time. It means even the Kool-Aid drinking, degree holding millennials have their limits, and that they may figure out how Politicians play the game after all. It means they may finally learn that spending and debt work the same way for Nations as they do for families, and understand the implications thereof.

Regardless, I’ll be cheering the virtues of “fairness”, self-balancing budgets, legal street drugs, wide open borders, and hard left 3rd-wave feminist policy come 2019.

#172 NoName on 09.11.17 at 9:31 am

While Beijing’s motivation for the exchange ban is unclear, it comes amid a broad clampdown on financial risk in the run-up to a key Communist Party leadership reshuffle next month. Bitcoin has jumped about 600 percent in dollar terms over the past year, fueling concerns of a bubble. The People’s Bank of China has done trial runs of its own prototype cryptocurrency, taking it a step closer to being the first major central bank to issue digital money.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-11/china-is-said-to-ban-bitcoin-exchanges-while-allowing-otc-trades-j7fofh20

#173 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 9:43 am

#158 AGuyInVancouver on 09.11.17 at 4:36 am
#8 Cecil Henry

3. REDUCE government expenditure permanently by 20% over 4 years. That’s 5% per year. Then directly reduce income taxes proportionally. REDUCE ALL income taxe by 20% by 2020.
_ _ _
Sure Cec, let’s start with the military shall we? After all when was the last time Canadian Forces were actually used in their intended purpose, defense of the homeland. That is an attack against Canadian soil. 1945? That’s a pretty bad return on investment. All those billions spent and nobody attacking. I know Conservatives will get behind slashing our military spending, right?
_______________________________

So cost cutting in government should start by cutting some of the lowest government salaries in existence?

That’s a great plan Guy – I suppose when things get tight at your house you cut out the coffee (while still making payments on the 911)?

Cops, Firefighters, Hydro, OPG, Teachers, Managers, Politicians, Administrators, the fat is literally sagging to the floor.

Just cutting all these back to the average Canadian household income would save HUNDREDS OF BILIONS. But let me guess, all these folks deserve much, much more than what other Canadians get right?

#174 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 9:52 am

#169 Stone on 09.11.17 at 8:35 am

Looking forward to when this legislation goes through as is along with B-20. Then the whiners can adapt to the new normal.

_______

Me too. Hopefully the whiners turn out to be mostly extremely pissed ex-Liberal supporters. If the new normal brings another Harper/Harris type into office, I couldn’t be happier.

But don’t worry, until then; I will vote for T2 unless the NDP can put up an even more horrible candidate for PM.

#175 NoName on 09.11.17 at 9:53 am

#170 Stone on 09.11.17 at 8:44 am

You do understand that the wealthy will simply move themselves and their assets to another jurisdiction. They are world citizens and there are many other jurisdictions who would welcome them with open arms. There is no low hanging fruit for the gouvernment to pick and they know it. Their focus is low hanging fruit only and those with limited mobility (ie homeowners). And those homeowners are now stuck where they are as they can’t sell their only asset – their house.

—-

Germany tax heavily, and i try follow up on them every once in a while, for some reason i am yet to find dentist and small corp people moving in droves form germany to ireland or slovenia, or any lower lower taxed jurisdiction. And for them its easier to pack up and move than for us.

Just to chime in about dentists, coworker bought established dental practice few yrs back, paid thru the nose for it, broke even shortly after…

My dentist charges 300cad for tooth cleaning, pays dental hygienist 46cad.

My wife was nanny when i met her, one of the kids that she was taking care of become dentist, every time i open social networking brein washing app she is on vacation.

June i’ll tell you what worked for R. Branson record store open business where “there is lots of foot traffic”, you have to come our way (ON), get MBA, will help.

#176 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 09.11.17 at 10:06 am

#9 Dan….. Right……Canadians are barking mad to pay to have dental work done in Canada…..starve the beast. I blame the outrageous costs on the public subsidized insurance given free as untaxed income to Union members. Dentists have realized that they can get away with the crazy charges non public servant have to pay because taxpayers will pay through the nose for Union jobs who now amount to 22% of the population leaving the average non Union non subsidized guy to pay the same rate as the privelaged unionists..

I’ll give you an example…..a crown I had installed in Bangkok by a top flight dentist with state of the art techniques education and tools was $ 300.00 ….in Canada the rate book quote from a Richmond NC dentist was $1465.00. A bridge which had been poorly done in Canada was quoted at $6000.00 …..in Bangkok and better made unit and work was had for $ $1300.00.

The dentist in Thailand told me and showed me how the Canadian dentist had cut corners to make extra profit….!

In both cases a person could fly to Thailand for dental work and have a nice vacation with the savings of doing dental here as opposed to Canada.

#177 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 10:12 am

#30 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:55 pm

CEOs of multi billion corporations who get paid millions typically get paid most of their compensation in stock options which delays taxation and cuts their tax rate in half through capital gains. This is not being changed.

Things like income sprinkling through a corporation will not reduce a wealthy persons or family’s tax in most cases. If someone makes a few million a year they will already have enough income producing assets to bring all family members income high enough to pay the highest marginal rate. This new attack on corporations is not a tax on the rich. This is a tax on those who have a family member with little or no income which eliminates most rich. How many rich people have family members with little or no income in order to take advantage of income sprinkling? Rich people have investments already which max them out to the highest marginal rate. Diverting money from one family member to another does nothing to save on taxes for the rich. This is a tax on the middle class who own businesses. Nothing more. The real rich will not pay more.
______________________

Yep, I think the meanie/@sshole hating T2 supporters are just starting to grasp this.

Too late now, this one is getting rammed through. The only way to get this undone is to vote for a candidate who says they will undo it (probably none)- plus I’ll be fighting that every step of the way.

The $h!t isn’t deep enough yet.

#178 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 10:16 am

#34 Old Ron the Realtor on 09.10.17 at 5:59 pm

buh-bye.

_________________________

Excellent.

#179 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 10:31 am

#37 Annexed on 09.10.17 at 6:02 pm
I moved to Canada a disillusioned American political refugee from the Bush era.
___________________________

You’ve made a big mistake. Hopefully you are young, I figure 10+ years yet of dying industry and lefty spending/debt before Canadians feel enough pain to change their priorities.

Then it will be a minimum of 10 more years of repair – and there is no guarantee that Canadians won’t get stupid again at the first sign of improvement.

Maybe your kids might be alright if they were born here and won’t be taxed by both countries. If not, maybe your grandkids then…

#180 Ian on 09.11.17 at 10:32 am

Headline on Marketwatch just now:

” ‘Nonexistent’ stock-market euphoria means start of long decline unlikely: Goldman”

You know what that means folks. They are shorting, so time to be careful!

#181 ALFRED E. NEUMAN on 09.11.17 at 10:44 am

Not a worry and maybe this has been mentioned prior,

but when you take money from your ‘Incorporated Co’ .. you ARE taxed personally as well, according to how you took it .. either as a ‘Salary’ or ‘Dividends’.

So IF the Corporate tax rates are “upped” and if the Personal rates remain unchanged .. combined, THAT’S a very high rate and a whole lotta taxes.

Am I missing something here, Garth?

Only the misinformation flooding through the masses. — Garth

#182 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 10:44 am

#42 Dolce Vita on 09.10.17 at 6:15 pm

Then again, they’re going to assign the purchase to someone else before buying, thus circumventing a land title record for tax purposes and no one will ever know…

______

This is the exact same thing that the CRA is crusading against with regards to used vehicles. A guy will buy a damaged vehicle, repair it, and sell it without ever registering it in his own name or paying the taxes. The government calls this “curbsiding”.

The CRA is jumping all over this, and so is Omvic even using bots on Kijiji and making accusatory robo-calls.

But home assignment sales in YVR where the tax loss is 100X greater is barely worth pursuing…

I’d have to assume many new Canadians must think Canadian regulation enforcement is all talk, ads, and software.

Because it largely is…

#183 Dissident on 09.11.17 at 10:47 am

To quote Axl Rose, “You ain’t special, so who ya foolin’, do try ta give me a liiiiiine”.

Having said that, I agree with – #84 Taxpayer on 09.10.17 at 8:14 pm

“Sorry June…. risk is working 3 min wage jobs to support your family, taking public transit to these jobs…not knowing if your kids are in with the wrong crowd while you are at work…and paying ‘ALL’ the taxes on income earned. If it eats at you so much…get a salaried job.”

June baby, (and all you other incorporated schmucks), if you don’t enjoy the prospect of having the ability to make more net income than the rest of the wage slaves in Canada, and be taxed fairly, which, by the way, is still more money in your pocket than if you were a wage slave, then why are you b*tchin? You’re just sad that the government finally decided to reign in your income-sprinking scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg5E4XEWK48

Oh, and wassup bro – #50 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.10.17 at 6:41 pm

Pretty sure this young female and other females read (and comment on) this pathetic blog, in spite of the lonely, wrinkly, Viagra-chomping boomer men falling face first into their morning glasses of JD whilst sputtering politically charged comments and shaking their fists at each other over the digital ether. Yeah, I’m also surprised I read this.

We’re all so brave and aggressive when online & anonymous. — Garth

#184 Renter's Regret on 09.11.17 at 10:54 am

Man, maybe I should hire an accountant. I’m starting to get FOMO on tax avoidance loopholes!

#185 MF on 09.11.17 at 10:54 am

159 BillyBob on 09.11.17 at 5:06 am

Remember only 4/10 Canadian “losers” voted Liberal in the last election.

I work for a successful business man in the GTA. How come he didn’t have to go somewhere else to build his empire?

Pro tip: anyone who has to constantly come on here and tell us how wealthy he is usually is not.

MF

#186 ITGuyInc on 09.11.17 at 11:03 am

Hey Garth, does this story carry any weight?

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/06/a-little-crooked-house-trudeau-morneau-bmo-kpmg-inc/

A Little Crooked House: Trudeau, Morneau, BMO & KPMG Inc

Canada’s Finance Minister Bill Morneau has recently reinvigorated his promise to crack down on tax evasion schemes, but how can we trust him when he is himself named in the Panama Papers? This issue, buried in the back-pages of last year’s CBC coverage, is not raised by any of the major media outlets in Canada in connection with Morneau’s current determination to “lay down the gauntlet” on tax loopholes.

#187 Tazi Bnu on 09.11.17 at 11:07 am

#45 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 6:23 pm
#30 BS on 09.10.17 at 5:55 pm
3 Tax Cheat on 09.10.17 at 4:31 pm

Things like income sprinkling through a corporation will not reduce a wealthy persons or family’s tax in most cases. If someone makes a few million a year they will already have enough income producing assets to bring all family members income high enough to pay the highest marginal rate. This new attack on corporations is not a tax on the rich. This is a tax on those who have a family member with little or no income which eliminates most rich. How many rich people have family members with little or no income in order to take advantage of income sprinkling? Rich people have investments already which max them out to the highest marginal rate. Diverting money from one family member to another does nothing to save on taxes for the rich. This is a tax on the middle class who own businesses. Nothing more. The real rich will not pay more.
___________________________________________

My wife has no income as she is contributing to the family taking care of our children and taking an enormous risk that I will not get laid off leaving her with no income but she is not blessed with the ability to split her income with me.

I don’t actually have a problem with income splitting, I think we should be able to split income like in the US. What I have a problem with is one class of people having the ability to do it and not others.
___________________________________________
I just want to ask you a question that will satisfy my curiosity.

You have three kids and you get them each ice-cream. One child gets their’s in a cone and the other two in cups. After leaving the store, the one with the cone drops their’s. The other two kids make fun of the ice-cream-less child, who is crying and getting angry.

Do you leave the situation “as is” to “teach” the child to be careful in the future? You may also cause long-term psychological damage.

Do you buy another ice-cream cone for the child to stop the crying, but it “teaches” all three kids that you’ll pay to fix all their mistakes? You’ll be treating them fairly at least.

Do you take away the other two kids’ ice-cream, to make things fair and “teach” them not to make fun of those who are unfortunate? Now you have three upset children who are wondering why you took them out for ice-cream.

M29ON

#188 n1tro on 09.11.17 at 11:13 am

RE: June’s letter

By far, the best letter written regarding this shit show. I’m sure it will trigger a lot of hate for dentists now but thank you for writing it June.

#189 Island Car Dude on 09.11.17 at 11:41 am

#157 bdwy sktrn on 09.11.17 at 4:28 am
#70 Island Car Dude on 09.10.17 at 7:35 pm
Now, I’ve bought and sold tons of cars over the years so I’m fairly certain my pricing is close to market.
———————-
the market is screaming at you that you are not ‘close’ to the right price. otherwise you’d be getting calls and buyers coming by.

let me guess , well maintained but high mileage? the latter cancelling out any market value of the former.
are you asking 8-10k for a 15yr old car?
—————————————————

Fair comment, but dealership comparables are, well, comparable. I’m not asking the moon, just what looks like a market price. Dealerships can offer financing, though at exorbitant rates. I had one guy ask if I can carry paper for them. Hard No on that issue, and that’s what made me wonder about the issue of real vs. fake cash.

#190 Small Business Target on 09.11.17 at 11:48 am

Had my own small business for 20+ years. Just me and the missus, no other employees. We’ve done OK, but haven’t set the world on fire. Just paid our share of taxes, paid our suppliers etc. , just been a small link in a large chain.

One thing I’ve never understood is why I’ve had to pay both the employer’s share and employees share of CPP for myself and my wife for the past 20+ years, but when it comes time to collect we’ll only get benefit for the same amount as if we were employees of some big company?

The double share of CPP came out of our pockets but we only get a single share back. That doesn’t seem fair to me.

#191 Guy in Calgary on 09.11.17 at 12:12 pm

I was very against the tax changes as they seem overly aggressive and unfair however, there are good arguments presented here supporting both sides.

My main concern is that they are attacking the ones that create jobs. After reading some of the comments, I think going after the one’s that incorporate (like June) strictly for the preferential tax treatment is appropriate:

June is working for someone else, the same way that I do. I am deducted at source since I am an employee. June is essentially an employee for the 2 practices she works for. I am not going to attack the scam that is the Canadian dental industry however, she is not creating jobs. She is not taking any additional risk. The only thing she offers the economy is her services, same as everyone else. Sure she forgoes benefits but that is her choice, it is not forced as part of the burden of starting your own business. Even though her letter was written eloquently and she made good points, she is simply complaining that she doesn’t get to have it as good as those that came before her. Welcome to the club.

On a side, I applaud the discussion that this blog encourages.

#192 I'm stupid on 09.11.17 at 12:25 pm

176 Oftn deleted

That’s because of the benefit system we have in Canada.

The scheme works like this… employees or employers pay for benefits (dental, medications etc etc) no tax is paid on money that goes to paying for benefits. The benefit company pays top dollar for everything so the dentist gets top dollar for services.

I’m my opinion employee benefit payments should be in after tax dollars (wife is a teacher so I get great coverage). Here is why, it’s not fair that some get employee benefits that are subsidized by not paying taxes while others don’t. If we’re going to talk about tax fairness let’s start there.

#193 n1tro on 09.11.17 at 12:31 pm

#132 Pete on 09.10.17 at 10:47 pm
Why haven’t they done that with Alcohol? It’s funny watching vested interests complain. Right now its 100% underground. Soon it will be legal and easy to get. Underground is crying because their pie is going to get eaten up where they can’t make money. Some Growers can grow a gram costing $1.50. You will see what economies of scale can do vs criminals
—————————————–
$1.50 a gram to grow? Great! But how much are they going to sell it for? $15/gram, with a large chunk of that as “tax” going to the government.

Criminals don’t need economies of scale to complete. They just need to buy it at $5/gram and sell it for $10/gram. They can do this by buying the weed tax free at a first nations reserve and selling it back to the market just like they do with cigarettes.

I don’t smoke weed or cigarettes but if Justin Trudeau keeps with the meme that by legalizing and regulating weed that criminals will be out of business, all I can say to him is that he “shouldn’t get high on his own supply”.

#194 Mike in Toronto on 09.11.17 at 12:37 pm

My wife had twins. I was laid off just before they were born. I didn’t even qualify for EI (I wasn’t looking for work because I was taking care of babies, I couldn’t take parental benefits from EI because it would reduce my wife’s)

I toyed with the idea of divorcing my wife, keeping custody of one child, let her take all the single mother benefits, I take parental leave for the other and move next door.

In the end, my lawyer raked the company over the coals, so we were fine.

So maybe that’s the new income sprinkling trick. Get divorced and remarried every year. You each take half of everything come tax time!

#195 CJBob on 09.11.17 at 12:44 pm

#234 CJBob on 09.08.17 at 4:58 pm
#220 n1tro on 09.08.17 at 3:13 pm
How does writing a blank cheque to China and India going to cool the waters of the Atlantic short of everyone on the earth stop using resources for the next 20-50 years?
__________________
So you don’t like my ‘claims’ but we are sending China and India an unlimited amount of money according to you? That’s quite a claim. As you like to say, link?

#196 westcdn on 09.11.17 at 12:47 pm

In regard to “tax fairness” on businesses, I have no love for private corporations. I would abolish them if I could or make their lives miserable. I also think public corporations are unpaid government tax collectors, principal residences are not businesses and we should increase GST – just my personal opinion.

#200 Lillooet, BC on 09.08.17 at 12:52 pm Re: CRH
I was intrigued. I did some preliminary due diligence. My opinion is the company is a good as it is a business to supply anesthesiology services to gastroenterologists in the United States and the company is expanding services. Very few things beat a government contract but the stock is speculated heavily and is suffering from management reputation due to billing practices. Reputation is crucial with a small company. It is no small matter that people will fight to retain reputation because there are big bucks involved – trust/confidence that type of thing. I think the bottom was hit.

When I enter a den of thieves, I shift my wallet to my front pocket. The best thing this company can do is make at least some managers/executives walk the plank and bring in people with good reputation.

#197 Victor V on 09.11.17 at 12:48 pm

One of the most influential voices on Bay Street is warning that even after raising its benchmark rate at two straight meetings, the Bank of Canada might not be done.

http://www.bnn.ca/poloz-is-clearly-willing-to-take-risks-rosenberg-1.853096

No, clearly this is not the end of it. — Garth

#198 Gravy Train on 09.11.17 at 12:49 pm

#184 Renter’s Regret on 09.11.17 at 10:54 am

“Man, maybe I should hire an accountant. I’m starting to get FOMO on tax avoidance loopholes!”

For those of you who are “just” employees, be sure for starters that you’re claiming all your applicable (section 8) deductions!
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-3.3/section-8.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/it522r-archived-vehicle-travel-sales-expenses-employees.html

And don’t forget to claim all your (applicable) Subdivision E (sections 60 to 66) deductions!
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-3.3/page-44.html#h-20

And all your (applicable) section 110 deductions:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-3.3/page-98.html#h-28

And all your (applicable) section 118 credits:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-3.3/page-112.html#docCont

Hope I haven’t missed anything! (I haven’t cross-referenced these deductions and credits to interpretation bulletins and the “new” income tax folios, but I thought I could leave that as an exercise for the reader.)

While IF is on hiatus until 2018, Flop, maybe I can be thought of as the employees’ friend. No? Oh, well! I tried my best. :)

#199 NoName on 09.11.17 at 12:59 pm

#189 Island Car Dude on 09.11.17 at 11:41 am

used car loan rate your area 3.99%, just little bit more than new. 2.59%.

https://galaxymotors.net/get-financing/

#200 NoName on 09.11.17 at 1:00 pm

Hey flopy

Any comment on that lamb comercial. Dont tell me you dont know of it.

#201 n1tro on 09.11.17 at 1:05 pm

#195 CJBob on 09.11.17 at 12:44 pm
#234 CJBob on 09.08.17 at 4:58 pm
#220 n1tro on 09.08.17 at 3:13 pm
How does writing a blank cheque to China and India going to cool the waters of the Atlantic short of everyone on the earth stop using resources for the next 20-50 years?
__________________
So you don’t like my ‘claims’ but we are sending China and India an unlimited amount of money according to you? That’s quite a claim. As you like to say, link?
———————————————
link provided on the day you made the post. look it up. where are your links?

#202 Brian on 09.11.17 at 1:07 pm

Real Estate is the bomb. Sixteen months ago my friend sold her Yale Town condo that she purchased in 2003 for $380,000.00. She got $2,000,000.00 for it. She had to move to Toronto for a job. She bought a condo in Port Credit for $900,000.00. Her job ended and she decided to retire and sell her Port Credit condo. Put it on the market last week. It sold in one day and she made a $250,000.00 profit after paying all costs. Her and hubby now looking for a yacht in Spain. Plan to spend a year and a half sailing around the Mediterranean. $380,000.00 spent in 2003 is now 2.3 million. Beat that stock markets.

#203 Howard on 09.11.17 at 1:08 pm

#176 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 09.11.17 at 10:06 am
#9 Dan….. Right……Canadians are barking mad to pay to have dental work done in Canada…..starve the beast. I blame the outrageous costs on the public subsidized insurance given free as untaxed income to Union members. Dentists have realized that they can get away with the crazy charges non public servant have to pay because taxpayers will pay through the nose for Union jobs who now amount to 22% of the population leaving the average non Union non subsidized guy to pay the same rate as the privelaged unionists..

I’ll give you an example…..a crown I had installed in Bangkok by a top flight dentist with state of the art techniques education and tools was $ 300.00 ….in Canada the rate book quote from a Richmond NC dentist was $1465.00. A bridge which had been poorly done in Canada was quoted at $6000.00 …..in Bangkok and better made unit and work was had for $ $1300.00.

The dentist in Thailand told me and showed me how the Canadian dentist had cut corners to make extra profit….!

In both cases a person could fly to Thailand for dental work and have a nice vacation with the savings of doing dental here as opposed to Canada.

———————————

If this isn’t an incentive for Canadians to stop consuming sugar I don’t know what is.

My Boomer parents, like many of their generation, are addicted to Coke (they drink it literally EVERY SINGLE NIGHT with dinner) and the chronic dental problems to match. I’m sure their dentist is only too happy for them to keep consuming that poison.

#204 90 CENT LOONIE HERE WE COME!!! on 09.11.17 at 1:18 pm

I can’t wait for a 90-cent loonie!!!!!!

#205 Ronaldo on 09.11.17 at 1:21 pm

I don’t smoke weed or cigarettes but if Justin Trudeau keeps with the meme that by legalizing and regulating weed that criminals will be out of business, all I can say to him is that he “shouldn’t get high on his own supply”.
——————————————————————
Exactly. They will simply switch to peddling another more potent drug which will kill off their own market as is happening in the lower mainland. This could be the results of legalizing pot. Just my opinion. Dealers will always find a way to make their living even if it means more lives being taken.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-opioid-crisis-136-people-died-of-suspected-drug-overdoses-in-april

#206 diharv on 09.11.17 at 1:24 pm

Bill Moron’s strategy of turning the tide of public opinion against us incredibly rich business owners who are cheating the system by using legal available means is brilliant and it’s working. Just look at a lot of the comments on this blog .

#207 Dissident on 09.11.17 at 1:28 pm

Re #183 We’re all so brave and aggressive when online & anonymous. — Garth

Oh, like nobody else on this blog is frontin’? :D We’re all so filthy rich and telepathic when online and anonymous.

Carry on Wayne, Carry on Garth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe30habM0ls

“you [email protected] dirty shysters!” – Happy Housing Crash Everyone

“the feminization of men by the government” – Smoking Man

See what I mean? — Garth

#208 Renter's Recourse on 09.11.17 at 1:28 pm

#184 Renter’s Regret on 09.11.17 at 10:54 am
#198 Gravy Train on 09.11.17 at 12:49 pm

Wow! Who needs an accountant when you have a blog? Thanks. I feel much better now. All aboard the Gravy Train!

#209 Ronaldo on 09.11.17 at 1:34 pm

I’m my opinion employee benefit payments should be in after tax dollars (wife is a teacher so I get great coverage). Here is why, it’s not fair that some get employee benefits that are subsidized by not paying taxes while others don’t. If we’re going to talk about tax fairness let’s start there.
——————————————————————
Dentists and other specialists had better make hay while the sun shines because as these rich extended benefits that companies used to offer employees will eventually come to an end and then you will see these so-called “rich” people’s income drop considerably. I don’t think I would be going into dentistry or any other field where reliance on income is based on whether the person has these employee benefits. Those without benefits will simply not get the work done or just do what absolutely necessary. As it was when I was a child back in the 50’s. The reason a lot of us boomers are missing most of our teeth. Back then, they didn’t fill the teeth, they simply yanked them out. Luckily I had those benefits with my work so my sons got great dental care. Not so for many though, even nowadays.

#210 Rexx Rock on 09.11.17 at 1:35 pm

DELETED

#211 Mattl on 09.11.17 at 1:36 pm

#145 – if you walk away your employees will go to the competition, or start up a new business in the space you are in. I’m amazed at how many biz owners here have such a poor understanding on how markets work. If you own a business providing services domestically in a market with multiple providers, you are playing a zero sum game. Your gains are at the expense of someone else. If you exit the market, presumably your customers will still require services and will acquire those from someone else.

If I open up a plumbing business in Burnaby I’m not actually creating new demand for plumbing. I’m taking business away from an existing provider, or picking up demand from market growth that would have gone to an existing provider. My employees will be new grads that would have gone to other providers (or gone out on their own) or existing plumbers from other providers.

Let’s drop this canard that small biz owners have the power to alter market behavior. If some of you want to take your ball and go home because of a tax increase, 9 other guys will be there waiting to take your clients.

There are exceptions – Canadian companies exporting goods and services, businesses serving undeserved communities, etc. I hate all tax increases and don’t support this one but man the whining from entitled small biz owners would put a millennial to shame.

#212 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.11.17 at 1:53 pm

#199 NoName on 09.11.17 at 12:59 pm
#189 Island Car Dude on 09.11.17 at 11:41 am

used car loan rate your area 3.99%, just little bit more than new. 2.59%.
—————
Just a little bit more is about 50%.
Used car salesmen must like you.

#213 Goldie on 09.11.17 at 1:54 pm

“Just a week now until your MP goes back to work in Ottawa, which sadly means Pride Parade season must be over. ”

Heh heh…

#214 Bruce on 09.11.17 at 2:17 pm

It doesn’t take long reading the comments on the blog to realize that June was right about the strategy – divide and conquer is working like a charm.

There is lots of noise on the topic, but I have read a few good articles that look at the issues from multiple sides, and there seems to be a case that the “income sprinkling” component could do with some changes. However, almost all viewpoints indicate that the tax on passive income, without any grandfathering, is a devastating change for those who have followed the law for the last 30+ years.

What’s worse though is the government sanctioned rhetoric. Literally referring to those who have followed the rules as “tax cheats”. Nothing like directly attacking a section of society that was following the tax law.

Also not discussed by all of those championing with glee for the downfall of private corps is how these changes will affect the broader economy and individual professions. Is this going to help increase jobs? Will this improve the already difficult situation of finding a stable family doctor? Going into a regulatory situation where $15 min wage greatly raises the costs for small business, what is the impact on this approach.

My prediction is that these tax changes will not bring much (if any) tax revenue increase, when the consequences of such changes are included (some business fold up, some doctors & professionals leave, less spending results).

I am very interested to see what the federal deficit will be for FY 2018, when the books close. The 1st 6 months of this year will have recorded some pretty strong GDP growth (however debt driven some of it might be), and the next 6 might be relatively good as well. If the deficit is anything over $20B, then you will know Canada is hosed – a huge deficit in the middle of very sizeable GDP growth is a sign of structural deficits.

The total Fed + Provinces public debt is over $1.3 Trillion, and every one is adding to that debt in the middle of pretty good economic expansion. What will happen when the next recession hits?

#215 jess on 09.11.17 at 2:20 pm

“disguised renumeration”

or what was referred to as “morally repugnant”
employee benefit trusts
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-herald/20170202/281539405687087

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/15063886.Michelle_Mone_s_partner_marketed____repugnant____tax_schemes/?ref=rss

Rangers tax case: supreme court rules in favour of HMRC

Court rules payments via employee benefit trusts are taxable income, with implications for many other tax avoidance cases
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/05/hmrc-wins-case-against-rangers-fc-entity-in-tax-avoidance-crackdown

#216 joblo on 09.11.17 at 3:08 pm

T2 flip/flops on immigration
why not Doctor tax?……come on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8ZZhkK7KfQ

#217 Your Local Farmer on 09.11.17 at 3:11 pm

As a farmer and beneficiary of tar sands royalty payments from the Crown from my land, I do not aspire for a US$0.90 Loonie.

My sales have plummeted since the rate hike in July, which means that my fair value for our Canadian dollar should be at the 55c to 60 c range so that I can earn more Canadian dollars from my American customers.

A 90 cent loonie would harm my income. A 60 cent Loonie would thrive my business exports and income.

#218 bob on 09.11.17 at 3:16 pm

To all those who are complaining that that small business owners are a bunch of whiners, and to say things like “go ahead and leave the country” or “go ahead and get a salaried job”… you are clearly missing the point.

When a person’s after-tax take-home pay is drastically reduced
whether you deem that fair or unfair
changes will happen.

And the rest will do one of three things:
1. pick-up-and-relocate, paying zero taxes
2. do nothing… suck it up, bitch and complain
3. increase their hours to make up for loss income
4. increase their fees to make up for loss income
5. reduce their hours to reduce the taxes
6. find additional tax ‘loopholes’, find other ways to save taxes

Now lets review each one
1. pick-up-and-leave.
I suspect only the most mobile will do this.

2. do nothing
Those supporting this tax grab probably think this is what is going to happen. wrong. That’s why the public needs to understand what the ramifications are.

3. increase hours to make up loss income
Hardly. Who’s going to work harder to see 50-73% of their income loss?

4. increase fees
I definitely see doctors, IT consultants, plumbers, etc increasing fees over the mid-to-long term. Bank on it.

5. reduce hours
This is extremely likely. People will cut back on unpaid work so that they no longer need to hire secretaries or nannies. Doctor specialists waitlists will only increase.

6. find additional tax loopholes
That’s right – the only people who stand to gain are accountants and lawyers. The tx rules say income splitting (e.g. via salary or dividends) must be justified. Well, how much would you charge if a doctor asked you to work Friday night for 2 hours? And xmas day for 2 hours. Well, their adult son, who has to work odd hours including “travel” time will simply justify a rate of $50/hour. That’s just more paperwork, and more money accountants and bookkeepers will make. As far as I know, there’s still trust structures, and IPPs, and life insurance products… so yeah, lawyers will make more money too.

#219 CJBob on 09.11.17 at 3:18 pm

#244 n1tro on 09.08.17 at 7:46 pm
#234 CJBob on 09.08.17 at 4:58 pm
#220 n1tro on 09.08.17 at 3:13 pm
How does writing a blank cheque to China and India
__________________
So you don’t like my ‘claims’ but we are sending China and India an unlimited amount of money according to you? That’s quite a claim. As you like to say, link?
————————
Apologies. Not “unlimited” just $100B a year for the next 10 years with no legal enforcement as to results or how it is to be used. In a world of QE, what is a trillion dollars but a 1 with lots of zeros behind it.

At the Paris Conference in 2015 where the Agreement was negotiated, the developed countries reaffirmed the commitment to mobilize $100 billion a year in climate finance by 2020, and agreed to continue mobilizing finance at the level of $100 billion a year until 2025.[41] The commitment refers to the pre-existing plan to provide US$100 billion a year in aid to developing countries for actions on climate change adaptation and mitigation.[42]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement
_______________
Found it, thanks. You’ve mixed up two separate concepts. You are correct that there is no legal enforcement in countries meeting their greenhouse gas reductions. That’s voluntary. But that’s completely different that what happens to the money that has been committed.

There is a organization that reviews submissions and approved funds if all requirements are met before any funds are paid. There is an audit as fund are paid. Link below with an excerpt from their site.

So your statement ‘$100B a year for the next 10 years with no legal enforcement as to results or how it is to be used’ is completely false. It is used for specific approved projects designed to reduce greenhouse gases.

http://www.greenclimate.fund/gcf101

A project approval is just the start of the GCF journey. After a funding proposal is approved, the Fund puts in place the necessary legal arrangements. This allows resources to be disbursed to Accredited Entities so that the project can be implemented. GCF then monitors the impacts of the climate finance initiatives it supports to ensure their effectiveness.

#220 Smartalox on 09.11.17 at 3:20 pm

@ Island Car Guy:

I had been watching the market for early 2000s luxury/sports cars for quite a while, looking at both the lower mainland, and the Island over the course of several years, before I bought a 2003 e39 in April.

My impression has been that vehicles on the island were nice, with low usage, but typically priced 20% more than comparables in the much larger market on the lower mainland.

It had to be something truly rare or interesting to have me considering a trip to the Island, to buy a car, and because I wasn’t looking for the lowest common denominator, I could afford to wait until a better deal made itself available.

The island is a tiny market; if you’ve got good, interesting, collectibles to sell, you have to market them accordingly. Consider a site like ‘bringatrailer.com’ to get maximum effect.

If you’re trying to sell mass-market GM cars, or Toyota Camrys, you’ll have to start cutting your price.

#221 bob on 09.11.17 at 3:27 pm

Garth, you wrote:


Her risk is obvious. No pension, no benefits, no vacation pay, no employer-funded EI or CPP and the constant threat of a contract ending with no notice, severance or alternative comp most salaried people receive. Are you naive, James, or just wilfully blind? — Garth

To be fair, as an incorporated small business owner, we should be comparing apples to apples. We are talking incorporated vs sole proprietor.

A lot of the discussions on this blog are employee vs self-employed
but the tax changes are really about
sole-proprietor vs incorporated business owner.

I think the more nuanced discussion is whether
the self-employed are justified (I believe they are)
to use incorporations for retirement and estate planning.

Trudeau will argue that we shouldn’t.
But doctors, and provincial governments, you may recall
ENCOURAGED doctors to incorporate in return for accepting lower fees.

And IT Contractors are required to be incorporated
because businesses don’t want to get in trouble with HR rules, EI, CPP, vacation, layoff notices, etc.

So these tax changes are very drastic and fundamental.
It’s not just about a few dollars here and there.
They are structural in nature, and I wish people here, both pro-and-con, would get that.

When after-tax income changes, behavior changes.
Time will tell what those changes entail
I’m willing to bet on reduced hours and/or increased fees.

#222 nick on 09.11.17 at 3:42 pm

DELETED

#223 Brian on 09.11.17 at 3:48 pm

“small businesses close, people lose their jobs, and health professional shortage becomes suffocating”

What a joke! Big crocodile tears for all those dentists that can’t pay their bills and doctors that are going to spend more time with their families!

#224 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 3:50 pm

#175 NoName on 09.11.17 at 9:53 am

My dentist charges 300cad for tooth cleaning, pays dental hygienist 46cad.

______________________________________

I had a tooth yanked last year. Cost was ~200.00 paid for by insurance.

3 years ago our Cat went to the Vet to have 2 teeth yanked. Cost was 700.00 paid for out of my wallet with after tax dollars.

Next time I was at the dentist I asked if he did Cats.

#225 Millenialinput on 09.11.17 at 3:54 pm

For those talking about people in cushy salaried positions… those are starting to be far and few between. For my generation I am finding the majority are “contract” workers with no benefits, working for temp agencies, and if they are “lucky” enough to get a FT salary job the pay is low and the hours are long (you are expected to work 10-12 hours days of unpaid overtime or be let go with some excuse). And the benefits suck, usually 60-70% coverage at best with the bare minimum. Even without income sprinkling, if I had the capital to start a business I would, it sounds better than the previous options. Only the lucky few get gold plated government jobs with pensions, good benefits and high pay. Stop pretending people are leaving “cushy great jobs”. There’s a reason millennials are entrepreneurial, it’s because the alternative sucks.

#226 IHCTD9 on 09.11.17 at 4:04 pm

#217 bob on 09.11.17 at 3:16 pm

To all those who are complaining that that small business owners are a bunch of whiners, and to say things like “go ahead and leave the country” or “go ahead and get a salaried job”… you are clearly missing the point.

When a person’s after-tax take-home pay is drastically reduced
whether you deem that fair or unfair
changes will happen.

And the rest will do one of three things:
1. pick-up-and-relocate, paying zero taxes
2. do nothing… suck it up, bitch and complain
3. increase their hours to make up for loss income
4. increase their fees to make up for loss income
5. reduce their hours to reduce the taxes
6. find additional tax ‘loopholes’, find other ways to save taxes
_________________________________________

I am not a business owner, but have been motivated by what lies ahead (big tax increases) to undertake several strategies as listed above.

1. Can’t do it, and tough to find a place to land if you still need to work, and you’re still raising kids. Later though…

2. I’ll bitch, but won’t be doing nothing.

3. Don’t need to, so why bother? My time and effort will go into offsetting my tax burden instead. More fun.

4. I can’t do this, but I have significantly lowered my tax burden through multiple strategies – and that is kind of like getting a raise

5. Yep, and reduced spending as well

6. I’ve found quite a few ways of legally reducing my taxation. Some have been implemented already, others will be implemented in 2018-2019. It’ll be awesome if it all pans out.

#227 n1tro on 09.11.17 at 4:15 pm

#218 CJBob on 09.11.17 at 3:18 pm
#244 n1tro on 09.08.17 at 7:46 pm
#234 CJBob on 09.08.17 at 4:58 pm
#220 n1tro on 09.08.17 at 3:13 pm

A project approval is just the start of the GCF journey. After a funding proposal is approved, the Fund puts in place the necessary legal arrangements. This allows resources to be disbursed to Accredited Entities so that the project can be implemented. GCF then monitors the impacts of the climate finance initiatives it supports to ensure their effectiveness.
——————————————-
Excuse my jaded responses when it comes to a self regulated quasi-government body determining what is effective or not when spending other people’s money. Memories of the Ontario “eco” fees come to mine.

https://www.southwesternontario.ca/news-story/7077223-mpp-thompson-calls-ontario-tire-stewardship-charges-yet-another-troubling-chapter-in-the-liberals-mismanagement-of-taxpayer-dollars-/

As noble as the intention was to have consumers pay for consumption of items that ultimately ends up being buried and potentially detrimental to our environment, I can see the same kind of “stewardship” happening with the global climate fund.

The difference between the eco fees and global climate fund is at least, we knew what the eco fees were for even though it was badly mismanaged. With the GCF, you have vague objective(s) like the lowering of global climate down 2C.

So I pose this question to pro-climate change believers. In five years when $500B has been taxed/spent and global climate has NOT decreased 2C, what then? My prediction is that the same people will be cheerleading for more tax payer money theft.

Questioning the propaganda of “feel good”, “do something” environmental policies that sounds right doesn’t make all of us climate deniers.

#228 Stan Broock on 09.11.17 at 4:24 pm

June, the YVR dentist,
———————————

The guy is not afraid of the Bay Street CEOs. He is a former Bay street CEO and a wealthy big business owner.

He does not care about you, he is simply working for the elite.

It is your choice to pay taxes to such people and be owned by them.

Or you can simply move. Europe and US are much, much better alternative.

Soon they will run out of brain frozen idiots to govern.

#229 Ned Flanders on 09.11.17 at 4:26 pm

First incorporated small business tax changes now the province will run marijuana sales in the same incompetent way that they run booze sales.

I voted for the Liberal candidate in my riding last federal election because he wasn’t a closet racist like the incumbent and he wasn’t NDP.

Seriously I have no idea which way to vote. Nobody actually represents my interests and / or political beliefs despite the huge amount of taxes I pay every year.

I can’t be the only one.

Seriously Gartho – get your finger out and get back in the game. Gotham needs you.

#230 Stan Broock on 09.11.17 at 4:26 pm

#220 bob on 09.11.17 at 3:27 pm

The whole economy will come to halt pretty soon.
I would not run Business in such environment with constantly changing rules.

One think is certain – the ruling elite has no intent to follow any moral, promises, rules, they are after your money.

Take it out of their reach. Fast.

#231 Spock on 09.11.17 at 4:29 pm

#169 Stone on 09.11.17 at 8:35 am

Stone: since T2 and joker Bill are intent on making everything fair and pushing all businesses under the bus – then why not everyone else. Maybe I should have written that I was being sarcastic because realistically it will not and never happen for some time.

Since there is not much incentive to take risk in business everyone will be an employee and soon the jobs disappear. Government cannot hire everyone even though they try their best to waste tax payers money by having more and more fat in the system.

I completely agree with you that all T2 and Co. want is more tax money. That is where divisive politics helps. Is this good for the country? Absolutely not.

Soon we will have an environment where most folks will give up working – enjoy their lives off whatever the Government can give and since the Government has to tax the workers more – more folks will feel there is no point in working.

Time will come when only T2 and Bill will be on a beach in the Bahamas and will laugh at what Canada has become – pretty much a nothing society of folks who are dependent on handouts. Mission accomplished. Cheers !!!.

#169 Stone on 09.11.17 at 8:35 am
#146 Spock

I am on board with T2 that things need to be fair so the following should be implemented after a 72 day consultation:

For all current employees – everyone becomes self employed:

1. No EI
2. No paid vacations. All vacations have to be unpaid.
3. No paid sick days
4. No pension plans or matching from employer or tax payer
5. No benefits unless you pay for it 100%. Also no pre existing coverage exclusion.
6. Need to pay 9.9% for CPP
7. No severance
8. No unions
9. Find your own skill set and arrange for your own contract.
10. If going on a conference etc. You have to spend your own money.

I think the above is pretty fair to start. Dog eat dog world.

———-

That’s right, throw everyone under the bus. How simplistic and thoughtless. Anyways, gouvernment just cares about the tax dollars that come in to pay for services. You’re deviating from the topic.

But to respond to what you wrote, you believe that everyone should suffer versus everyone should be treated fairly and with dignity if I understand correctly. I hear Venezuala is nice. I recommend you go live there for a while, then come back and let us know if you would like to maintain your position in this debate.

June’s higher compensation mitigates the risk. There’s no question about it.

Looking forward to when this legislation goes through as is along with B-20. Then the whiners can adapt to the new normal.

#232 Stan Broock on 09.11.17 at 4:37 pm

#217 bob on 09.11.17 at 3:16 pm

Yep,

The idiots in power completely miss the point the small Businesses can not hire work-as-needed-evening-shift-2-hours-a-night-4.5-hours-on-the-weekend-as needed labour-with-unique-skills-who-knosw-your-business-and-your-customers at 15 CAD/hour. Maybe even at $ 40 CAD hour.

Now the bullies at CRA will tell you that your spouse justifies 12 CAD/hour for odd working/flexible hours/unique mix of skills while you won”t be able to hire anyone even for 40 $ for it.

There is no point in arguing, if they vote for the these new rules just understand that you do not stand a chance and simply move out of these s..t h.le.

Suck it up and move out.

#233 Stan Broock on 09.11.17 at 4:52 pm

The are basically eliminating small Businesses.

This is the first step – trying to completely rout them/the small Businesses.
If the idiots who promote such changes are stupid enough to enforce the rules outright without changes it will be complete and devastating catastrophe.

This is the most likely scenario, the politicians ruling Canada are completely reckless.

If they are smarter they will introduce complex practically non-enforceable rules trying to scare small Businesses into submission and slow death.

Bottom line – these are the last breaths of a collapsing, society on it;s death bed.

Guaranteed income? Sure. And who will pay for it , the doctors? Can somebody please shut down the lights of this mental institution?

#234 Dissident on 09.11.17 at 4:52 pm

Re #206 See what I mean? — Garth

Classic redirection. I srsly don’t appreciate, like, the man-splaining. My original opinion still stands. If you don’t like being incorporated, then don’t be. Work a wage job. See how long you enjoy paying 40% to the tax man. You’re still better off at the end of the day, JT or no JT.

You (all) are just using incorporated women (i.e. June) and doctors as a smoke screen to make your argument seem legit and to justify your boomer whines. Classic political misdirection. “But the women and the doctors”. (translation: “Wahh, I’m a bit less rich now.”) First world problems. Cry me a river. Tough titties. That’s the price for your privilege and wage-sprinkling. And I’d say all that to anyone in person too. You want sketchy tax loopholes and 1%-er tax breaks? Then move to the USA. Trump’ll take care of y’all. Problem solved.

#235 Stan Broock on 09.11.17 at 5:02 pm

Family taxation laws, as in Germany will solve the problem.

If Bill tells Germans about ‘income sprinkling’ they will laugh at him. The village idiot.

#236 Mark on 09.11.17 at 5:16 pm

“And no, that 60K for the daughters rehab was not tax deductible either.”

The expense associated with the substance abuse rehab should have been eligible for a tax credit as applicable to medical expenses:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/lines-330-331-eligible-medical-expenses-you-claim-on-your-tax-return/details-medical-expenses.html#trtmntcntr

#237 Manitoba Whale on 09.11.17 at 5:59 pm

So I pose this question to pro-climate change believers. In five years when $500B has been taxed/spent and global climate has NOT decreased 2C, what then? My prediction is that the same people will be cheerleading for more tax payer money theft.

Questioning the propaganda of “feel good”, “do something” environmental policies that sounds right doesn’t make all of us climate deniers.
*****

Well put.
Is it that hard to understand this?

#238 Tony on 09.11.17 at 6:09 pm

I read it as interest rates will fall in Canada not normalize. I also see Richmond Hill and Markham showing a big jump in price for the last month. No one will buy stocks and the gold and silver market is still rigged. If the September jobs reports comes out a dud the first week of October in Canada a lot of thing could change. Buying single detached homes that need fixing in areas where Millennials would never buy might actually be a good idea. It all depends on that jobs report the first week of October in Canada. I know rates will fall. The lag period of time would be about 3 to 6 weeks before the rest of the people figure it out. I gave Ian the green light to buy in Peterborough yesterday.

#239 yorkville renter on 09.11.17 at 6:23 pm

#233 – Diss – you see the stats on the income earned by small businesses in Canada? Hardly wealthy nor 1%’er.

You think all plumbers are rich? Hair salons? Comic book stores? Pizza places? Convience stores? Record shops? Lawn Care? Florists?

What business do you think is all wealthy folk?

#240 Terrorelf on 09.11.17 at 6:37 pm

Yes, June for MP, ideally PM! I agree with her, Morneau knows he’s lying and he doesn’t care. The lure of the ready cash is just too huge.

#241 Linda on 09.11.17 at 6:51 pm

Garth, my point was that additional penalties would apply if someone did not at least make a minimum monthly payment. Additional interest accruing is a penalty for not making a regular payment. Sure, financial institutions will be willing to tack on the interest but if a client is making no payments whatsoever, a red flag is raised. If no payments are occurring, obviously there is an issue. Eventually the financial institution will be contacting the client to see what’s up.

#242 Funky on 09.11.17 at 7:55 pm

Yes…I’m in.You go gal!

#243 Gravy Train on 09.11.17 at 11:00 pm

#236 Manitoba Whale on 09.11.17 at 5:59 pm
#226 n1tro on 09.11.17 at 4:15 pm

“So I pose this question to pro-climate change believers.”

Climate change is not a belief; it’s an earth science!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatology
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatology#Models
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_model
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_circulation_model
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_model
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogeochemistry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geophysics
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_system_science

“In five years when $500B has been taxed/spent and global climate has NOT decreased 2C, what then? My prediction is that the same people will be cheerleading for more tax payer money theft.”

The current effort is not to reduce average global temperatures, but merely to contain it to within two degrees Celsius.

“Global atmospheric temperatures have been on a steady upward march for decades, and currently stand 1.78° F (.99° C) above the 1951 to 1980 average. Seasonal variations can be even more dramatic. The previous two Julys were the hottest in 137 years of record-keeping….

“Ocean surface temperatures from 1901 to the present have increased 0.13°F (.072° C) per decade, and at least half of the ocean warming that’s taken place since as far back as 1865 has occurred in just the past two decades.”
http://time.com/4933743/hurricane-irma-climate-change-global-warming/

“Questioning the propaganda of ‘feel good’, ‘do something’ environmental policies that sounds right doesn’t make all of us climate deniers.”

What questions do you still have? The vision is to replace fossil fuels with wind and solar power!

“Well put. Is it that hard to understand this?”

#244 Jay Currie on 09.12.17 at 3:11 am

Gravey Train, Wiki…really?

One word: offshore.

Wait until the docs hear that there is a need for really high paid doctors in the US. Oh, wait, they already have.

Another set of words, “John Galt”. Ayn Rand’s grand hero who simply quit.

Were I a fifty five year old doctor or lawyer or contractor I suspect the golf course would be beckoning. I mean I could work for an extra 47% of my regular income, or I could punt, or putt. Once you push the marginal tax rate above 50% you are effectively penalizing work.

The funny thing about taxation is that if you want to discourage an activity, say smoking, you raise taxes and, gratifyingly, the activity tends to decline. Now, if you tax work enough – and 50% seems to be the charm – you will get less of it. Good news for surgery widows and the sad spouses of corporate lawyers – who themselves may see the charm of gardening rather than grinding M&A – life/work balance produced by the wondrous Justin.

Mid-range, a lot of talented Canadians will migrate to places where they can keep their money. Or they will offshore their practices. Or they will sit on their decks ten years earlier and finally get that handicap under 20.

Dumb taxation strangles the geese with the golden eggs.

#245 Gravy Train on 09.12.17 at 6:48 am

#243 Jay Currie on 09.12.17 at 3:11 am

What does your diatribe have to do with any of my comments? Which of my comments are you attacking? What have I written that is factually incorrect? In which of my comments have I written anything about raising taxes on any group of taxpayers? Get a life!

#246 Gravy Train on 09.12.17 at 8:05 am

#76 InvestorsFriend on 09.10.17 at 7:50 pm

“It disgusts me that the government would run ads implying people have any real chance of winning loto 6/49. People have little clue of how slim odds of 1 in 14.4 million are.”

Fun fact: The chances are about 85% of getting fewer than two numbers right! :)

#247 Denise#1 on 09.12.17 at 10:48 am

Maxx and Silver: Great posts! Thank-you for your common sense and knowledge. I’m on the same page as you, with everything you write. Helps me believe there is still sane, rational, intelligent people out there.

#248 yup on 09.12.17 at 11:53 am

Few professionals from G7 countries come to Canada.

but lots of professionals from quasi G7 countries coming over/trying to. These folks have no idea. They assume its better here

put an ad for a dental assisstant/receptionist- got well over 30 applicants. 6-7 were dentists from other countries. All likely trying to write the boards. Supply/demand has irresponsibly shifted the balance- a massive surplus. And no, this is NOT good for the public.

thankfully, i’m in the twilight of my career.

#249 Manitoba Whale on 09.12.17 at 4:52 pm

CBCnews September 12 2017
Bill Morneau is suggesting that even with the scorching economy he’s not planning to lay out a timetable to balance Ottawa’s books.

The federal finance minister says the Trudeau government will continue with its strategy to invest tens of billions of dollars into infrastructure by running annual deficits over at least the next five years.

Morneau’s remarks outside a cabinet retreat in St. John’s come after months of impressive economic data — including a recent report showing growth expanded by 4.5 per cent in the second quarter.
*****

When things are going well we pay down debt.
I guess the gubmint knows better.
Because interest rates will never go up.