The burden

Andrew’s a doc. Mid-forties. Anesthesiologist. Wife, kids, house. Moved from the big city to the small town. “In a place best known for being home to a large petroleum refinery,” he says, “a bit of forestry-related business and a 150-year-old brewery.” But even in bucolic New Brunswick, Andy’s been touched by the hungry hand of a prime minister.

“I don’t mind asking the wealthy to pay more,” T2 said on the weekend, when asked about the uproar his proposed  small-biz and dr-crushing tax measures have caused. Tomorrow in Kelowna his Liberal MPs gather to caucus. The new taxes will be centre stage for the former drama teacher now leading the nation.

To date the plans to seriously whack earnings retained within a business plus end the ability of the self-employed to income split, have been characterized by the feds as ‘loopholes.’ Money guy Bill Morneau says change must come in the name of ‘middle class fairness.’ The campaign to portray current laws as suddenly corrupt and benefiting only the wealthy (and that all small biz guys are plush)  has been successful. Need proof? Look at the comments on this blog.

Back to Andy. “I was hoping to share some insight into what things may actually look like down the pipeline for patients, from the physician side of things,” he says. “I’m not really sure if people understand what the effect of these tax charge will be on the provision of healthcare in Canada.  If people truly believe that docs are just gonna work way more to make up for whatever lost income Trudeau & Morneau hoover away, they might want to consider the reality of what physicians are actually saying to each other about their plans.”

Now, NB has only 750,000 people (on a good day when a bunch of relatives visit), but it may provide a microcosm for the doctoring business in all of Canada. In Andrew’s region there are 308 fee-for-service doctors (not salaried people at hospitals, but who run their own clinics or are paid as small business operators). In a recent online poll, 54% of them responded. “If these numbers are even close to being representative of other parts of the country,” says A, “I don’t know how we’re not in trouble.”

Here are the results: should the T2 tax plan be implemented, 65% of physicians are considering moving. Just over 80% are planning on reducing their hours of work. With proposed changes in effect, 38% say they will retire early. “Understanding that there is likely overlap in the responses and that those potentially in favour of the changes may not have taken the survey, 82% of people cutting office hours is huge.  Even if we count the 46% of fee-for-service physicians that didn’t answer as people who won’t change anything in their work pattern, then that would still mean 44.4% of docs would be looking at cutting work hours!”

As in every other province, the NB medical association is now surveying all members. The results will augment the cacophony of voices in organizations representing millions of farmers, exporters, manufacturers and small business dudes that have come together, hastily, to oppose the T2 plan. Anger that the consultation period was only 75 days long, and took place in the stillness of summer, with MPs out of Parliament, is palpable. The campaign has started:

As for Andrew: “Add up the essential expenses to be covered, make a few tough decisions about spending here and there and once that gets sorted, looks like I’ll be spending less time at work and more time with my wife and family.  So here I am, supposedly in my “prime earning years” and the reality is, there aren’t enough hours in the day to make up any new “tax shortfall” by working more so, why bother?  I’ll never get back the time I might spend trying to chase a few extra dollars that I only have to give to Bill anyway.”

Are docs overpaid? Maybe. But to become one takes smarts, time and massive schooling. Like plumbers and IT guys, fee-for-service medical people don’t have pensions, paid vacations, sick days or benefits. Most of them have staffs, offices and overhead. After all that’s taken into consideration, maybe they still earn too much. As the prime minister says, they’re wealthy. So they should pay more. But there are consequences. If eight of ten plan on working less and four will retire if Justin proceeds, we’ll have achieved ‘fairness’ at a high cost. Good luck finding a doctor.

In a letter to his Liberal MP (Ron McKinnon) in Coquitlam on Friday, another blog day had this to share:

“My father came to this country with nothing and worked and saved for a better life for his kids.  I was never brought up in a wealthy family, so to get ahead I went to school earned two degrees and a professional designation.  I then opened two business by the time I was 31.  I did this on my own and after years of pressing on I am finally a “high earner”… this, however, makes me “middle class” in a city where homes cost over a million dollars.

“Now all of a sudden the tax rules, which have been in place for many years and during other liberal governments, are conveniently considered “loop holes”? A wise man once said, “There are three things in the world that deserve no mercy, hypocrisy, fraud, and tyranny.”   I assure you that I and many others like me across Canada will show the Liberals no mercy come the next election.

“If any Liberal MPs truly value small business and can’t convince those in charge – as seems apparent based on Justin’s recent comments – the only solution is a short walk across the aisle.  Those brave enough and with enough integrity to do so would be championed by the people and would navigate the country away from policy proposed by the misguided and hypocritical.”

The burden may not be too little taxing, but too much spending. Perhaps it’s not us. Maybe it’s them.

________________________________________

Itinerary for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Sept. 5:

Kelowna, British Columbia

3:15 p.m. The Prime Minister will visit the Kelowna Fire Department Fire Station 1.

Fire Station 1
2255 Enterprise Way

Notes for media:

  • Photo opportunity only
  • Media should arrive no later than 2:45 p.m.

6:00 p.m. The Prime Minister will hike Knox Mountain.

580 Knox Mountain Drive

Notes for media:

  • Photo opportunity only
  • Media should arrive no later than 5:30 p.m. in the parking lot

Media appearances

An interview with the Prime Minister will be featured on Castanet Kelowna.

An interview with the Prime Minister will air on Global Okanagan live at 5:00 p.m.

340 comments ↓

#1 TurnerNation on 09.04.17 at 3:56 pm

Animated GIF? This tech-forward but aging weblog.

World class? If you cannot cough up 20k year for ‘private’ school your kid likely is toast. Schools watered down anyway. (Diversity, Tolerance, Acceptance and Inclusion – only if you think as we do):

http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-parents-say-condo-boom-is-sending-schools-over-the-edge-1.3574547

#2 BC observer on 09.04.17 at 4:04 pm

I find it refreshing that this post emphasizes “fee for service” physicians have the most to lose (complete garbage tax). Yet, most physicians working in hospital are salaried staff. The ones I know (many), still incorporate themselves and take full tax advantage as a indep contractor while making an uproar about the current tax changes. Why is it the government turns a blind eye to salaried physicians? if an Xray tech, physio, RN were to claim the same benefits the CRA would lose their minds. Maybe, the fee for service physicians should be blaming the salaried physicians for unfairly riding their coat-tails and ruining the tax advantage for all.

#3 Nick on 09.04.17 at 4:05 pm

The people get the government they deserve. People’s memories are short to forget that the Liberals are all about tax tax tax, spend spend spend! Not that I don’t blame the cons for screwing the pooch and alienating most of the populous.

It’s got to get worse before it gets better. Bring on 100% tax rates please Bill & Justin! We are all clearly too rich.

#4 clueless on 09.04.17 at 4:08 pm

Honestly Garth, you’ve been spending so much time with the 1% crowd you’ve lost touch with popular opinion of the masses. Your passive aggressive articles trying to create a sense of fear in the 99% regarding the changes is pathetic. The fact the 1%s are trying so hard to manipulate the opinion of the 99% only validates the 99% are right in moving to close the loophole. Take your own advice “Of course, it could be worse. You could live in Houston. Or Seoul. So lighten up.” and move on.

#5 TAX AND SPEND AGAIN on 09.04.17 at 4:09 pm

It is not the working population that has an issue it is government spending with no apparent accountabilty.
Remember government has no money unless take it from
someone. A families biggest expenditure every year is
TAXES

#6 Prince Polo on 09.04.17 at 4:14 pm

May the knucklehead twins (Morneau & True-D’oh!) start taxing the gains on principal residences? I mean, let’s be fair to renters. Sheesh!

#7 Zed on 09.04.17 at 4:17 pm

Why is this tax change so unfair? Is sprinkling income on family members fair compare to employees? I don’t see how a doctor or a plumber can think it is fair that he/she can “share” the income with the family to reduce the overall tax paid. That is not fair.

To compensate the affected people, create a way for them to save for their retirement, like a lot of employees have with their employers. Obviously the present system is not good enought for them.

A certain amount of retained earnings should be allowed to smooth out the earnings between years and/or periods of sickness, maybe one year.

#8 Glengarry Girl on 09.04.17 at 4:23 pm

My thoughts on this topic are that the goal posts and rules are continually changing for many of us. You have to learn to adapt and strategize to the best of your ability. There are no guarantees or security in anything anymore. These are volatile times, things aren’t fair, its just the way it is. I ran a business and was rewarded with the taxation rules for many years before we changed our plans to accommodate an ever changing and competetive world. We could have done things differently and made more advances but no one knows the future. This is life, it’s always been this way, get over it. I guess you can vote to change things, IF you actually believe in Democracy. Or you change and adapt and accept or drive yourself crazy.

#9 Big Bucks on 09.04.17 at 4:24 pm

When we pay 42.5% of our income to taxes yet deficits/debts continue to skyrocket it is very obvious we have an enormous spending problem—-taxes are too high already.Have people lost their freakin minds?

#10 Irish Stew on 09.04.17 at 4:25 pm

The burden may not be too little taxing, but too much spending. Perhaps it’s not us. Maybe it’s them.

EXACTLY!

#11 David on 09.04.17 at 4:26 pm

Trust me, it’s them, and they’re going ahead with all of this insanity 100%.

#12 Samuel on 09.04.17 at 4:29 pm

I personally hope the changes take place. As a small business owner I did not incorporate when I could have since hearing the warnings from Garth when the liberals got elected. It has cost me by taking everything as income. So now I just want to be right. Also, the bigger discussion should be our 50% plus tax brackets, which now more people will need to endure. The majority of small biz owners and professionals stayed silent when taxes over $200k were increased because they did not think it would effect them. Now they take notice when it is too late. Serves people right for voting in these clowns. I stopped working the ridiculous hours 2 years ago. My income is beginning to drop and I could not be happier.

#13 nnso on 09.04.17 at 4:30 pm

OHIP should pay for the Cuban doctors, when we do not have doctors at home town, we should fly to Cuba and the OHIP should reimburse the fee to Cuban doctors , that would be a real globalisation. I agree that doctors and plumbers run the business in a same way. More pipes burst plumbers make more and more people get sick Doctors make more. Why we don’t privatize the fire department so more kids play with fire crackers, they make more money. The solution is make medical school tuition free and make the medical professional to work for salary.

#14 Andrewski on 09.04.17 at 4:31 pm

In my corner of Canada, I know Drs who will be negatively affected by these changes & one thing is for sure, if we think it is tough to find and hold on to a family doctor now, you ain’t seen nothing yet! Clueless Feds abound.

#15 Damifino on 09.04.17 at 4:32 pm

I grow tired of the boy. Really, I do

#16 Freebird on 09.04.17 at 4:34 pm

Good article.

Maybe the common sense Morneau (and others) are missing?

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/bill-morneau-needs-to-start-taking-tax-fairness-seriously/?utm_source=macleans&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=recirc&utm_content=tag_list

#17 Keith on 09.04.17 at 4:35 pm

Well, we can hire Temporary foreign doctors. Bring them in, train them with the older doctors, put them on salary in small clinics for a five year term. They go back home western trained, with a bag of Canadian dollars to live well. It works when the locals won’t work at a Timmy’s in the oil patch. If we’re going to be a low wage economy at the low and middle levels, might as well do it at the higher end. Stretch those tax dollars.

#18 Freebird on 09.04.17 at 4:36 pm

BTW myself, my partner and MANY others we know will be rethinking our vote come the next election. Trust.

#19 Stone on 09.04.17 at 4:38 pm

I don’t disagree that the burden may not be too little taxing but too much spending.

As to the doctor’s comments in today’s post, more threats to create fear in the populace to maintain their status quo. X percentage threaten they will leave. To be honest, the health care system in Canada isn’t great when you have to wait months for a specialist. If there is something wrong health wise with you, you’re dead anyways. So what difference will this make. Sorry Andrew, I’m calling your bluff. If life is so terrible, nothing stopping you from going elsewhere. Life changes constantly and we all need to adapt to it, for better or worse. Even for doctors, the self employed, and real estate agents (yes, all lumped together). Nobody is special.

Garth, I respect your position on this subject and it differs from mine and I thank you for allowing me to express mine as well. I will say this though. Doctor’s are not gods however much they try to make us think they are.

Looking forward to when this legislation passes or is trounced. I’m indifferent to the outcome. So long as it becomes old news.

#20 Tom on 09.04.17 at 4:39 pm

Too many chiefs and not enough workers….

#21 CentralP on 09.04.17 at 4:51 pm

How many will actually follow through with any of these threats though? Think of how many people in the States said they would leave if Trump was elected. How many actually did? Doctors have lives and families with needs, demands, and careers of their own. It’s not necessarily so easy to just leave.

Pardon my ignorance, but how would working fewer hours help? With the new tax rules would they actual earn more for working less? If not, they still have to pay for the lifestyle to which they and their families have become accustomed so I’m not sure how working less would accomplish that.

#22 Allan on 09.04.17 at 4:53 pm

Hopefully they don’t go after retained earnings for past years. The government is going after small business for a measly 250 million a year yet spend billions helping non Canadians. Sick!

#23 Andrew Woburn on 09.04.17 at 4:53 pm

Larry Summers, former US Treasury Secretary, thinks America needs its unions back. Doesn’t get around to saying how this could happen in a globalized, automated world.

https://www.ft.com/content/180127da-8e59-11e7-9580-c651950d3672?mc_cid=af2f502b86&mc_eid=7e15084088

#24 Perspective on 09.04.17 at 5:00 pm

So Doctors will retire early, leave the country or reduce their hours. So riddle me this batman. Isn’t the same government introducing these new taxes, the same government that helps to pay for much of the service. I know on paper the Provinces pay, but guess where they get a lot of the cash. Medical costs are out of control and everyone knows it. So the government wins both ways. Lowers medical costs and increases taxes.

#25 T2 is coming for you on 09.04.17 at 5:02 pm

Whine, whine and more whining. I know a few MDs and they are all financially over extended, they couldn’t stop working or work any ‘less’ as they need to pay for all their toys.

#26 Catalyst on 09.04.17 at 5:06 pm

I agree there is too much spending by government. But good luck getting anyone to touch union pay/benefits which is the only way to bring government back to a reasonable cost.

#27 Willy H on 09.04.17 at 5:07 pm

It’s truly amazing how very successful stable small & medium sized business have developed an entitlement complex when it comes to tax treatment. There must be big money at stake for these folks to resort to scare-tactics and threats. All of which only serves to shore up the argument that this is indeed, unfair tax treatment.

80% of small business owners will be unaffected as they earn between $50-$70K per year, hardly wealthy by today’s standards. They are not employing incorporation, holding companies, or income splitting in pursuit of tax avoidance.

A medical practice is hardly a risky entrepreneurial endeavor in Canada where doctors are always in demand and fees are underwritten with our tax dollars.
Yes, the education is costly and long but this is the case for many other fields with far less enticing prospects in terms of income.

Would someone please provide statistics on medical clinic bankruptcy in Canada?

One only needs to look at dentists, most of whom are well on their way to becoming millionaires 5 years into their practices with or without preferential tax treatment.

New Brunswick will keep most of their doctors despite the threats and survey bluster. We have seen this swagger from the medical community in Ontario over several decades with no impact on demand for Audi’s and Volvo’s.

#28 waiting on the westcoast on 09.04.17 at 5:08 pm

The problem is spending… Until T2 can come to terms with less government, he will find ways to get revenue. If the small business people are able to get the Liberals off of their backs, the Liberals will just shift to another demographic who are less vocal.

I just wish they announced this before I came back from Uruguay because depending how bad it plays out, it may be time to head back… No taxes on world wide income for 5 years and then a flat 25% thereafter.

#29 Arctic Outback on 09.04.17 at 5:09 pm

Sophie complained about hacking ‘tall poppies’.

#30 Mark on 09.04.17 at 5:11 pm

So doctors leave, prices for doctors go up, and at the end of the day, doctors will be paid at market rates for their services under the tax changes on an after-tax basis.

I don’t see what the doctors are protesting about. If anything, these rules free doctors from the ethical quandary of questioning whether its ethical to “pay” or “sprinkle” income to family members whom did not really earn income or not. It frees doctors from the expense of paying accountants to structure these schemas. It frees doctors from having an advantage based on whether they’re married with or without kids onto which they can sprinkle. A young unmarried doctor without fancy investments and a fancy accountant may very well have a higher tax burden under the current system than a highly experienced doctor who has the investment capital to devote to tax avoiding schemas, a family onto which to income sprinkle, and money to pay accountants and strategists.

If anything, doctors should be fighting *for* tax changes such as that proposed by the Liberals. Same with the IT guys, and the plumbers. Nobody is proposing to take away their ability to use structures like RRSPs, or to pay their actual staff wages. The proposed changes only remove the ability to benefit from what essentially are concocted shams.

As far as the claim of doctors cutting work hours, in practice, it doesn’t work that way. If anything, doctors are more apt to work harder and smarter to maintain their similar lifestyle. Just like most other professions and industries in the economy over the years.

#31 Arctic Outback on 09.04.17 at 5:11 pm

Great link…Trudeau shared his philosophy on the campaign trail. His and Mornau’s truat funds won’t be impacted….wish that more people paid attention then: https://youtu.be/fWJiPE-jEDU

#32 For those about to flop... on 09.04.17 at 5:20 pm

Just a reminder that tomorrow is the first anniversary of Boom’s passing.

I will write a post now as I am working tomorrow and it wouldn’t be cool to be the burly construction guy with tears running down your cheeks as you work on some guys palace.

I am hoping that you guys will support me in trying to keep a promise to his family that he made a difference on the blog and although gone he will not be forgotten.

If you are new to the blog and never had the chance to see Boom in action you missed out but you can still help me out by finishing your posts with M64WI ,which was his final GAP code.

We don’t always get along with each other and are sometimes like a dysfunctional family, but by reading the comments section and conversing with each other we invite each other into our lives.

Less than1% of readers are regular commenters who take the time to try and help each other out or simply point out something that they might have observed that day.

We all have our favourite people on here that we seek out their posts as we value their contribution and opinions and since this blog has existed there has no doubt been a lot of births ,marriages and deaths amongst the families of the readers of this blog that has shaped people’s lives.

I didn’t come to this blog looking for friendship and inspiration to be a better man ,but that guy was some kind of special.

To Paul and Janet Stacey,I will think of you guys all day tomorrow and one of Boom’s last gifts while he was on this earth was to inspire me to be the best man I can be and to try and find a way to make a difference in as many lives as possible…

M43BC
M64WI

#33 Kid on 09.04.17 at 5:23 pm

This is very scary. Quebec healthcare is, in my opinion, sub standard compared to Ontarios. They taxation in Quebec is greater so there is an attempt to flee the province for better paid salaries elsewhere in the country. What happens now? Do the good docs leave?
Slippery slope.

Will definitely show the libs no mercy for this If it messes up our healthcare more than it already is

#34 Average Joe on 09.04.17 at 5:31 pm

WIIFM Bias. Every time taxation of professional corporations and small business owners is the topic, the blog turns ugly. It turns into an epic us-against-them battle, when it should always be about us, collectively.

Doctors are important members of our society. But so are teachers. Of all the salaried rank and file, why did I pick teachers to compare to doctors? No, it’s not because they are (finally, some would say) going back to work tomorrow after a couple of months of paid vacation. Full disclosure, I’m not a teacher.

It’s because at my daughter’s high-school graduation, when I asked the top student, a friend of hers with a 99% overall average, what her plans were, I expected to hear doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. but was surprised when she told me she wanted to be a teacher.

That was like a eureka moment for me. I realized that the reason there needs to be an element of earning parity between the various professions is, exactly, because we don’t always want the best students to become only doctors, lawyers and engineers (although we do want good students going there), but we want some to become teachers too!

Without good teachers, who would educate those aspiring doctors, lawyers and engineers? Exactly. It doesn’t take much of a stretch to see how this applies across a broad spectrum of trades and professions.

And on another note, wow, this blog has gone decidedly high-tech with an animated gif! I can hardly wait until the day we see an embedded movie full of puppies!

#35 young & foolish on 09.04.17 at 5:37 pm

“The burden may not be too little taxing, but too much spending. Perhaps it’s not us. Maybe it’s them.” — GT

People expect more & more from government every year. It’s a cultural thing. So, who is going to pay for all those “services”?

#36 Cecil Henry on 09.04.17 at 5:39 pm

My letter to Bill Morneau et al. (Why not share??)

Dear Mr. Morneau:

Canadians (productive, working people) are fed up with taxation. I did not go to university, get advanced training, take risks, loans, forego spending and sacrifice free time in ORDER TO earn more and THEN have it taxed away to be redistributed to others.

That is theft. I and my labour is not a piece of property.

The government now takes over 60% of economic productivity in some form, and Canadians earnings—especially those who EARN the most by greater effort, education and skill— and taxed at 50% plus.

Taxation of 30-40-50% plus is slavery. Period

Why work?? Income taxes along with all taxes MUST COME DOWN!!

No Canadian should have more than 20% of their income taken by government or anyone else.

We need a flat income tax: a dollar earned it a dollar earned. It is NOT the state’s role to decide whether I’ve earned ‘enough’, or whether I need to be made a slave for someone’s else’s interest by redistributing my income.

A free person is responsible for and decides that for themselves.

1. Stop this ‘income tax’ theft on higher earning Canadians and reduce taxes to a flat tax. People EARN the money they get in a free society.

2. INCREASE the TFSA to $50,000/ year contribution limit. (Like it is in Britain for example) Stop double taxation of my earnings.

3. REDUCE government expenditure permanently by 20% over 4 years. That’s 5% per year. Then directly reduce income taxes proportionally. REDUCE ALL income tax by 20% by 2020.

YOUR tax increases have stolen more than that on productive people this past 2 years alone. If Canadians can find a way to reduce their spending, then the Canadian government definitely can.

Make it an election promise: ‘We’ll stop stealing your money and redistributing it. Its YOUR money first’

This must end. Productive Canadians are beyond FED UP.

‘Lean In’ and contribute to this?? NO WAY. NO. My only question: What can I do to actively STOP this involuntary subsidization of a parasitic system that is destroying my freedom and interests: economically, racially, personally?.

WE are not on board with this, do not consent, and will not be co-operating. In the endlessly coercive, politicized environment we have, the disconnect, rejection and resistance will be subtle. It is very real.

What part of the immorality of these policies don’t you understand?

#37 Bille Gable Stein on 09.04.17 at 5:41 pm

I don’t believe the Doc’s Poster. Almost all docs are work-a-holics and would be bored to work less.

#38 ER on 09.04.17 at 5:44 pm

What do you expect in a nation brainwashed by those very drama teachers? Teachers can do some good (and hopefully little harm), but this is not the life or death importance of doctors.

A good time to get a real education from poetry: “On What Planet” by Kenneth Rexroth…

#39 dr. talc on 09.04.17 at 5:45 pm

The people who say they support Morneau on this legislation are trolls, CRA employees or whatever. They appear out of nowhere like a flash mob.
The majority of opinion here is anti T2 , then all of a sudden mobs are sending ‘thank you’ notes to Bill Morneau, spare me.

#40 Simon on 09.04.17 at 5:45 pm

@ #6 The principle residence capital gain exemption will get axed. Why do you think there is now a principle residence tax reporting on T1 tax returns now??

#41 Sam the Sham on 09.04.17 at 5:45 pm

DELETED

#42 diharv on 09.04.17 at 5:48 pm

All this for the govt to garner a paltry extra $250M per year , according to a FP story I read recently. As a DMD with a CCPC and age 52 , the early retirement option has now become even more attractive and may be moved up by a year or two.

#43 -=jwk=- on 09.04.17 at 5:49 pm

If you are running your small business fairly, the new rules don’t affect you. If you setup a ‘risky’ small business for the sole purpose of income tax sprinkling, you ARE going to be affected.

Why is this so hard to understand? Canada has suddenly had 10’s of thousands of new personal corporations started in the last few years – where are they all? Our downtown areas should be bursting with entrepreneurs making a go of it…oh you don’t see them? perhaps because they are essentially a fraud to lower taxes?


I know a few MDs and they are all financially over extended, they couldn’t stop working or work any ‘less’ as they need to pay for all their toys.

Exactly. After the 2nd divorce things get really pricey. We have newly trained surgeons who can’t get any Operating room time because the 72yr old surgeon can’t afford to retire! And now they are going to quit? OK, off you go!

#44 MF on 09.04.17 at 5:50 pm

Hmmmm

I remember how the maritime provinces voted strongly Liberal in the last election.

So they voted to basically screw over their own health care.

Great job guys!

B.b.bbbut Harper was mean.

So pathetic.

MF

#45 BoomerKid on 09.04.17 at 5:50 pm

I’m a female physician in my early 30s. I’m still in training due to the specialty field I’m in, but most of my friends are 1-3 years into practice.

Most of my former classmates were hungry to work given that they have just graduated. Most work at several different locations – typically a primary clinic for a couple days and then the addition of another clinic or emergency/inpatient/obstetrical work, depending on the type of physician they are and their personal interest (FYI, just because your doctor is only at your clinic 2 days a week, it doesn’t mean they only work 2 days a week). There is also a lot of administrative work that is done on evenings and weekends (following up test results, writing notes, and referrals, etc.)

Given my age, many of my friends have young children or are planning on having kids. I can tell you that nearly all female MDs (and many male MDs) in my age cohort are thinking of cutting back hours as a direct consequence of the Liberal tax proposals. They’ve made the calculation that after a certain point, they make barely more per hour in after tax income than the cost of paying a babysitter to look after their kids for that Thursday night emergency shift or that Sunday morning walk-in clinic shift.

Yes, most of us went into medicine because we love our jobs, but the sacrifice to ourselves and our families is enormous. We are burning out from the job itself – not enough beds, long waitlists of sick patients, ridiculous wait times in emergency, rationed surgeries and limited resources…it’s disheartening. We’re trying to work harder and faster and more efficiently to fill in the gaps, but we feel like it’s hopeless. And when we come home from a particularly bad night – when we’ve spent hours trying to advocate for our patients to get “limited use” medications and have been blocked by random government bureaucrats multiple times for reasons that just don’t make sense or when we’ve desperately tried to find a hospital that has an ICU bed to take our sick patient because all the beds are “full”, or when we’ve spent hours trying to find a time to image a cancer patient with a CT scan in overbooked scanner time – and we see the government (and the general public) calling us “tax cheats” and “greedy” in the news, we feel like the personal cost to ourselves and our families is just not worth it anymore.

No one I’ve talked to is going to stop working completely (after all, we have lots of student debt and no savings). But instead of working at 2 different clinics and a couple emergency shifts per week, they’ll cut their clinic hours and just work in emerg or they’ll cut their obstetrical shifts and just work at their primary clinic. And we’ll make up for it because we can stop paying for the babysitter.

But from the public’s perspective, if we all cut our hours back by 1/3, then it’s like losing 1/3 of the doctors…

#46 Denise#1 on 09.04.17 at 5:52 pm

Trudeau and Morneau are incompetent, arrogant little rich boys. What happened to Trudeau’s plans to increase taxes on the “real” rich people, his fellow trust-fund baby buddies, the Bay Street pals. What happened to going after off-shore accounts, taxing stock options? Oh no, can’t do that; because those “real” rich people are us, they’re our pals. We got too much flack from them. Trudeau’s a wealthy trust-fund baby, I don’t know, does he have off-shore accounts? Morneau went straight from post-secondary education (paid for by his rich Daddy) to work for said rich Daddy’s company. They both make me sick to my stomach – when I see a photo of them or they’re on TV I have to get “exit stage right” asap from their images and voices. The anger I feel is incredible & it won’t be ebbing. Young family members of mine started their own business almost 10 years ago. (They’re red-seal certified, highly skilled/in demand tradespeople). They employ about 6 people who are very happy working for and with them. It’s a great bunch, including my family members; who are all very skilled, have high integrity, are super hard workers and really care about the quality of work they do. What happens if my family members, who took all this risk to start up their own company, worked their butts off for years, are finally seeing results from all their hard work – close their business because of these new ridiculous, erroneous, scapegoat hunting tax laws? There’s going to be a lot of unhappy former employees and their friends and families. Do you REALLY think any of these people will vote Liberal in the next election? NO FREAKING WAY!! Quit your insane over-spending Liberals, think of other options, quit taking the easy route focusing on easy targets, then maybe you won’t have to gouge/destroy fellow Canadians, their livelihoods. They’re also greatly harming ALL Canadians’ healthcare as it will go in the gutter with all the doctors, dentists etc cutting hours, retiring early or leaving the country. Anybody who thinks this is fair is an idiot with not a hard-working, skilled, intelligent bone in their body. They are just jealous of what these fine health care people, trades people, professionals have accomplished. Good luck in the next election Libs, you are SO going to need it; if you bring in these bizarre, unfair new tax laws targeting small businesses, making them your scapegoats for all your over-spending. You will be so GONE.

#47 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.04.17 at 5:52 pm

#22 Allan on 09.04.17 at 4:53 pm
Hopefully they don’t go after retained earnings for past years.
————————————————————-
They’ll take everything before it’s all over. When Garth says “it’s not different here” he means it; just like with the Roman Empire, just like Zimbabwe, etc….

#48 Alex on 09.04.17 at 5:52 pm

As a doc working in my ‘prime’, I can tell you that paying my fair share of taxes is not fun at all.
I give almost 53% of what I make to our government. But that’s ok since I know that it will provide my country with excellent healthcare and my kids will be able to go to top notch universities while not having to pay too much for their tuition fees.
I am not incorporated so I am taxed at the maximum possible rate.
And I am not a work a holic either.
However, when my portfolio will reach the 5M mark, I will continue working only one or two days a week at the maximum. Now I am enjoying working 4 days a week. Life is too short to give it away to your ‘work’ !

#49 political boundaries on 09.04.17 at 5:53 pm

“The burden may not be too little taxing, but too much spending. Perhaps it’s not us. Maybe it’s them.”

Open, taboo and PC free discussion of government spending would be just too risky to turn into deplorable dangers. It is beyond the boundaries of political liberalism, out of question.

#50 arfmoocat on 09.04.17 at 5:57 pm

How small is small in this small business tax hit?

I’m incorporated and make $25 an hour working nights. If I lasted a year without my 61 year old body breaking I might make 50K.

#51 joblo on 09.04.17 at 5:58 pm

What’s with this middle class B’s.
Kanada has the wealthy and the slave class period.

#52 joblo on 09.04.17 at 5:58 pm

BS

#53 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.04.17 at 6:00 pm

#33 Kid on 09.04.17 at 5:23 pm
This is very scary. Quebec healthcare is, in my opinion, sub standard compared to Ontarios.
——————————————————–
I’ve lived both places and Quebec beats Ontario hands down. My wife is chronically ill and I know what I’m talking about. We moved back to Quebec years ago fearing that she would die if we stayed.
But let me tell you, you’d better save some money in an untouchable place in case you ever need special medical care cause you’ll have to go to Switzerland or the US to get things not covered or approved of by Health Canada.

#54 dr. talc on 09.04.17 at 6:00 pm

#6 Prince Polo on 09.04.17 at 4:14 pm
May the knucklehead twins (Morneau & True-D’oh!) start taxing the gains on principal residences? I mean, let’s be fair to renters. Sheesh!

The beginning of the end was 2011 with H’s reno tax credits, which was of course a trap, as was deducting part of your house as a business expense.
Over the 25 yr am schedule of a 500k mortgage, the borrower will pay about 1 million, so one thing is guaranteed: after the 25 years, the house will be worth about one million, so any notion of ‘windfall’ or ‘profit’ is nonsense, the exemption is relief from what would be a tax on inflation

#55 Jay on 09.04.17 at 6:02 pm

“Income sprinkling”. That’s hilarious.
If my wife owns 50% of my company, why do you care? Why can’t she?
Dividends are paid from AFTER TAX income in a corporation. I.e income tax was already paid.
Why does the government think they have a right to determine if my wife “worked” in the business to receive a dividend? She is a shareholder participating in a dividend much like you would if you owned shares in my company.
Using the same logic, I would need to prove that I “worked” for BNS to accept my dividend.
This is total BS.
We have already decided to shelve plans to expand by hiring 2 new sales people.
We are also moving from 6 days of operation to 4.5 to make back what we will lose.
Why should we spend money and invest more time in our business with government regulations continually coming out of left field?
I’d rather spend time with my family then earn more to “contribute my fair share”.
Please don’t try and espouse it is our civic duty to earn as much as we can when we get to keep less than the government on our marginal earnings.

#56 Pete on 09.04.17 at 6:04 pm

Doctors should be exempt and everyone else needs to pay their fair share.

#57 Bob on 09.04.17 at 6:04 pm

“The burden may not be too little taxing, but too much spending. Perhaps it’s not us. Maybe it’s them.”
____________________________________________

Come on now Garth, of course, it’s always been too much spending….

…and the rent seekers shall inherit the country…

#58 BoomerKid on 09.04.17 at 6:06 pm

#21

“Pardon my ignorance, but how would working fewer hours help? With the new tax rules would they actual earn more for working less? If not, they still have to pay for the lifestyle to which they and their families have become accustomed so I’m not sure how working less would accomplish that.”

—-

The pay rate decreases with working more due to taxes. You take home $1 for the first $1 you make, but at the highest marginal tax rate (53.5% in Ontario), you only take home $0.47 cents.

However, there are costs associated with working that actually increase with the number of hours worked. When you work M-F 9am-3pm, you might be able to get away with not paying for childcare, but when you work evenings/nights/weekends, you’re suddenly paying an extra $20/hour. There are also increased “convenience” costs, such as expensive take-out foods, etc. It’s hard to cook/clean when you’ve worked 24 hours in a row.

So let’s suppose you make $100/hr pre-tax.

At the first hour you work, you make $100/hr post-tax.

If you work enough hours to make it to the marginal tax rate and need a babysitter to take care of your kids, then you make: $100×47.5% – $20 = $27.50/hr. If you factor in a bit of “convenience” costs or even the costs of commuting to work, etc., then the hourly wage is even less.

#59 Freedom First on 09.04.17 at 6:09 pm

#32 Flop

Freedom First
M64WI

#60 Debtslavecreator on 09.04.17 at 6:12 pm

T2 may be a good looking and charismatic guy to have a beer with but he will go down as the worst PM in history and ironically the greatest destroyer of the middle class ever seen by orders of magnitude
Cutting taxes very modestly but running massive 25-30 B deficits, soon to be 35-40B / year in about a years time, will confirm the massive theft by these radical left wing globalists running this nation and the province of Ontario
No amount of tax will help them but they will keep coming at us and as the economy continues to deteriorate the tax dollars will further dry up forcing them into even more brazen tax grabs
What a banana republic this Canadstan is turning into
What an irony this PM will be: the supposed saviour of the middle class will, by Q4 2019, have led to the destruction of the people who were silly enough to elect this guy
A politicians job, after all, is to deliver his constituents to his campaign contributors

#61 Dwight on 09.04.17 at 6:12 pm

It’s too bad that the people who are best qualified to lead the country are too busy teaching school.

#62 harold on 09.04.17 at 6:15 pm

I wish I could be on a “Fee for Service” gig with the government paying my fees with taxpayer money and no questions asked. No health plans but a legal plan that gets the taxpayer to fund my legal expenses in case I botch up from time to time.

#63 More Doctors on 09.04.17 at 6:17 pm

Garth, you’re really trying to get blood out of a stone here.

More doctors retiring? Great! There are thousands trying to get into med school right now.

You yourself admit that doctors are paid too much.

What did they do in Brazil? The doctors formed worker co-operatives. Each physicians office is owned by the co-op, and the doctor just focuses on what’s important: saving lives. No need to run a business.

Sorry bud, you best max out your TFSA and RRSP and start paying taxes like an actual government service deserving citizen like the rest of us.

I also like how you complain that millenials are complaining about housing, but if some rich, tax-cheating doctor can no longer afford two boats instead of just one, the world is unfair. So much Irony in these posts.

#64 Lee on 09.04.17 at 6:20 pm

I think JT takes his cue on doctors from Europe. In Britain family docs make a lot less than here. Typical salaries are 80,000 to 85,000 pounds a year which I guess is about 150,000 CDN. After the tax changes Canadian GPs will still earn well above this.

#65 Frank on 09.04.17 at 6:20 pm

DELETED

#66 Frank on 09.04.17 at 6:23 pm

If my wife owns 50% of my company, why do you care? Why can’t she?
Dividends are paid from AFTER TAX income in a corporation. I.e income tax was already paid.
Why does the government think they have a right to determine if my wife “worked” in the business to receive a dividend? She is a shareholder participating in a dividend much like you would if you owned shares in my company.

Because you’re lying about your wife working to avoid taxes. Pat yourself on the back all you want about taking risks and cry about RRSP in your written off leased car and scream into your expensed phone but it doesn’t change the fact you’re a tax cheat and it’s about to be over.

Why should we spend money and invest more time in our business with government regulations continually coming out of left field?

Then don’t. No one cares. There’s a harder working immigrant willing to take your businesses place.

#67 Mr Obvious on 09.04.17 at 6:25 pm

Doctors have the sweetest deal in the world. They have a recession proof business where clients are always guaranteed, they’re fees are gauranteed to be paid on time, by the richest client that never goes out of business (government).

If they work less hours, it doesn’t matter. Simply raise the number of spots in Canadian medical schools, poof, more doctors. There’s no shortage of medical school applicants.

Perhaps with all this whining, they would prefer to be salaried employees of the government?

#68 Spock on 09.04.17 at 6:29 pm

#27 Willy H on 09.04.17 at 5:07 pm

Have you even bothered to read the proposal or is it beyond comprehension? Did you miss the part about retained earnings? That was 33% of the proposal.

And how did you decide on the 80% number. Can you provide proof that 80% are not incorporated, do not have holding companies, or do not do income splitting in pursuit of tax avoidance.

Throwing random numbers around makes no sense without backing up the numbers. Just because the person has $50K of income does not mean any of the above. Think harder.

#27 Willy H on 09.04.17 at 5:07 pm

80% of small business owners will be unaffected as they earn between $50-$70K per year, hardly wealthy by today’s standards. They are not employing incorporation, holding companies, or income splitting in pursuit of tax avoidance.

#69 the pic on 09.04.17 at 6:30 pm

Looking at the picture: which is the doc, which is T2?

#70 Free Dumb on 09.04.17 at 6:34 pm

I’m a dentist and okay with a few small cuts in order to share.

#71 CentralP on 09.04.17 at 6:35 pm

#53

The pay rate decreases…

However, there are costs…

I wasn’t referring to marginal tax rates and costs associated with working longer hours so much as their (apparent) thinking that they could work less and somehow maintain their lifestyle. Mortgages, car payments, private schools, etc. won’t go away so I find it hard to believe that many of them would actually work less due to the perceived “decline” in lifestyle that would result.

#72 Algonquin Settler on 09.04.17 at 6:37 pm

I would like to see legislation that requires any increase in taxation rates to be accompanied by a corresponding percentage decrease in all politicians’ renumeration rates. Ditto for all spending above a true rate of inflation.

#73 jess on 09.04.17 at 6:38 pm

who is protesting the most the double dippers? or is this a push from private insurers? Reading articles regarding uk and the nhs health system and the problems. Especially liked reading the piece from stephen hawking
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/30/doctors-back-stephen-hawkings-challenge-to-jeremy-hunt

Health Minister vows action against illegal physician double-billing

Federal Health Minister Jane Philpott said Sunday she is “determined to find ways to make it very clear that we expect the law to be upheld” and she finds it “disturbing” to see how Canadian physicians are double-dipping – by billing the public system, while also charging patients directly for medical services.

The minister is responding to a Globe and Mail investigation that found significant, unlawful extra billing by doctors through private clinics, where patients increasingly pay out of pocket for access to everything from medical appointments to surgery

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/health-minister-aims-to-draw-strict-line-against-disturbing-physician-double-billing/article35281808/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/doctors-extra-billing-private-clinics-investigation/article35260558/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

#74 zee on 09.04.17 at 6:40 pm

This is again propaganda by the docs. They do this all the time when they are not happy with the govt.

Drive around GTA, and there is as many doctors office as there is Realtors office. All accepting new patients.

No doctors will be leaving Canada. People don’t want to move within a city let alone to a different country. Moving is a big decision and its not easy to do especially when its over Govt polices which can easily be changed.

#75 jess on 09.04.17 at 6:42 pm

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/05/11/how_ontarios_doctors_get_paid.html

#76 Danny on 09.04.17 at 6:45 pm

Tax collection since the Roman Empire has always been controversial.
Making tax sharing more Fair….has been an issue for every Government…nothing new.
I remember when I was young and the first $1,000 earned from interest was tax free then removed..changing the status quo on taxes is always controversial.
Revenue Canada tries to redistribute the burden as waves of governments come and go and the pendulum just swings constantly.
For decades I know there are those barbers who take cash only …..keep questionable books and never pay their fair share of taxes…..and add to them the many small business cafes and handyman who do the same. And yet made enough wealth to own multiple houses and cry the blues about taxes….while they evade taxes.
As to income splitting…maybe make it universal ..to an upper limit… to benefit the majority of family income groups?

#77 common sense on 09.04.17 at 6:51 pm

#32 Flopper

Nice post…

He always had a nice folksy tone to his comments.

Common Sense

M64WI

#78 OttawaMike on 09.04.17 at 6:52 pm

Boo Hoo.

I have been listening to the docs threaten to leave Canada and reduce working hours since the 80’s.

Every time the govt. tweaks or caps their wages it’s the same old song including Andrew’s song that “he will now work less because it is not worth it”.

When it comes right down to it it means the docs have to drive their luxury SUV one year longer before trading or forgo a helicopter skiing holiday.

First world problem. I never thought I’d say this but let’s steer the blog back to the housing correction..

#79 Hans on 09.04.17 at 6:52 pm

If I recall, CRA targets certain populations periodically for a more intensive audit of claimed expenses. Looks like small business owners are the current target – here’s the new rules. Ignore the “politi-speak” of paying your fair share. Accountants will find the most tax efficient way to do the exact same thing – minimize taxes. Just give them the new rules and they will all work it out. As far as threats to cut back hours – good luck with that. How many people, wealthy or not, small business owners or not, could pull that off? The $15 min wage is more of a detriment to employment for small business owners, and if that doesn’t trigger a bump in unemployment, I don’t know what will. McD’s is already automating front line staff – this will accelerate. How much holiday pay, EI, CPP, benefits, scheduling rules, mat leaves, etc. does a kiosk need? Zero. The $15 min wage is where people should be more concerned IMO. Why wouldn’t doctors apply this to their front line staff? Scheduling, patient records, referrals, etc. all seem to be services that do not need a front line human worker. I think any attack on small business will result in innovation and change, probably not in the way that gov’t intends too.

#80 I'm stupid on 09.04.17 at 6:52 pm

Tax changes are going to happen, no use wasting energy trying to fight it. Once they get passed good luck getting a govt to remove them. Welcome to Cuba north!

#81 yorkville renter on 09.04.17 at 6:53 pm

I wrote my MP – Chrystia Freeland – and asked why the Gov’t is going after small business, but loaning Bombardier hundreds of millions while they’re currently under investigation for bribery???

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/bombardier-executives-colluded-with-foreign-officials-auditors-allege-in-bribery-probe/article36088275/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/bombardier-announcement-feds-1.3971263

How is this “fair” for the middle class?
Where are this government’s priorities?

sad.

#82 Cherry Picker on 09.04.17 at 6:53 pm

Just cause the rules have existed a long time to benefit corporations, doesn’t mean the contention that they are loopholes is wrong. As my imaginary Grandpappy used to say, if it walks like a loophole, and it quacks like a loophole, it’s a loophole.

Don’t like income or corporate tax? Vote for someone who will bring in a wealth tax. That will be the closest thing to fairness we will get, considering life is not fair.

#83 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 6:54 pm

According to Reuters, New York Governor and the state’s attorney general vowed to sue President Trump if he scraps DACA.

Can’t doctor’s association, tax payers association sue Trudeau if he scraps “the loopholes”?

#84 Ace Goodheart on 09.04.17 at 6:54 pm

Tax and spend Libs are….gosh….taxing and spending. Meanwhile the short Canadian summer is coming to an end. It’s time for us all to work hard, pay up to 54% of our incomes in taxes and keep chipping away at those 25 year payment plan houses. Dream of the day when you’ll be mortgage free and happy.

Or…..buy a house for cash in one of Toronto’s priority low income neighbourhoods. Our schools suck. But we don’t have kids.

Winter is coming. Oh well. I rent a villa in Costa Rica. $400 US per month.

I would love to work on my career but….living off my dividends is actually more rewarding, I am half way through my bottle of wine by afternoon and the beach is full of 20 something gap years who look to be enjoying themselves sans job.

I do think about all of you.

I wonder if you’ll ever figure it out.

The purpose of money is to make money, not to spend it. Every dollar is worth 6 cents per year. It doesn’t sound like a lot but it adds up.

Frostbite. Frozen feet. Ice storms. But you have granite and a cottage in muskoka and you live in Lesliville!

Canadian weather sucks. But we have a wonderful financial system. Try living in India or sub Saharan Africa and see what I mean. Take the good of everything. July and August are nice and the TSE functions year round.

Happy winter!

#85 Costco Nation on 09.04.17 at 6:56 pm

So, if they backtrack on this at the last moment they look like heroes good for the country. “We saved you from us”. Reelection guaranteed.

#86 Mark on 09.04.17 at 6:58 pm

Canadian non-mortgage, housing-backed loans exploding in value:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-04/canadians-are-borrowing-against-real-estate-fastest-pace-ever

Sure smells like a lot of Canadians are using their HELOCs to make ends meet. This won’t end well.

#87 dr. talc on 09.04.17 at 6:59 pm

One more time:
Are doctors and lawyers creating any significant problem to the ‘system’? No
Are significant numbers of mortgagors defaulting? No

Folks, we are being handed a bag of solutions to non existent problems, which of course are the easiest to solve.

#88 This is the Last straw on 09.04.17 at 7:00 pm

Small biz is being taxed to death.
Consider:
^CPP
^min wage
– carbon taxes –
^hydro costs in Ontario
^marginal tax rates, higher than other OECD jurisdictions

This raid on retained earnings saved for times of decreased earnings, illness, for pension, in lieu of overtime pay, to pay for maternity leave, is the last straw for small business. The attack on small business is rightfully sparking a tax revolt across Canada.

You’re kidding yourself if you believe it will not affect you.
It will cost more to buy stuff as the business will have to ^ prices. This may lead to inflation
Employees will be laid off or given part time work instead of full time jobs.
Your doctor will cut back hours because they can’t afford to pay their staff. It is illegal for MDs to set their own prices. MDs did leave Canada in the 1990s due to short sighted healthcare policy.. it will happen again. Stay healthy.

Liberals are engaging in the politics of envy to the detriment of all Canadians

#89 Joe on 09.04.17 at 7:00 pm

Today post is a bit too much. Doctors threatening to leave because of no longer paying the low small business tax rate? Maybe these folks are in the wrong business.

#90 -=jwk=- on 09.04.17 at 7:01 pm

@ #55


Why does the government think they have a right to determine if my wife “worked” in the business to receive a dividend?

maybe you should read the proposal first, which has three parts and none of them deal with dividends.


We have already decided to shelve plans to expand by hiring 2 new sales people.
We are also moving from 6 days of operation to 4.5 to make back what we will lose.

And someone else who has done their homework will take away your business. Shrug.

#91 Fran Deck Jr. on 09.04.17 at 7:01 pm

… and not a word of this massive tax rip-off in the corrupt Canadian media …

#92 Costco Nation on 09.04.17 at 7:01 pm

The Magician worked his magic again. Look at my right hand while busy with the left. Noone worried anymore why so many taxes needed, why the huge apparatus, why do I start working for my family only towards June? No. Me worry that the other guy has to suffer the same.

Poor sheep you are.

#93 Rargary on 09.04.17 at 7:05 pm

My boss brags he makes $2000/yr. That his business has done +1b$ revenue. He laughs that he doesn’t give his employees raises after working for him 5yrs. He writes off his wife who he cheats on, his 4 primary school kids; & spends 100s of $1000s of dollars on his car collection every year…
He’s been looking a little crusty lately. Glad my tax $$s from my meger wages he pays me doesn’t enable this parasitic tax write-offs. Amen sister!

#94 Rargary on 09.04.17 at 7:06 pm

Correction-my boss brags he claims he makes $20000/yr on his personal taxes

#95 Howard on 09.04.17 at 7:06 pm

Why can’t one of this country’s useless reporters ask Trudeau for his definitions of “middle class” and “wealthy” for gods sake?? Seems a ridiculously obvious question. He needs to go on record stating what kind of thresholds he is using, otherwise this entire discussion is worthless.

#96 Darryl on 09.04.17 at 7:09 pm

Thanks for the reminder Boom .

Definitely miss his posts

M64WI

#97 Trojan House on 09.04.17 at 7:09 pm

Section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that everyone is equal “before and under the law” and has equal “protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination.” It goes on to list what cannot be discriminated against, including race, religion, etc. However it does not include income. Meaning you can discriminate against someone based on income.

So, in other words, we’re all equal under and deserve equal protection of the law except based on income – and Trudeau seems to want to take full advantage of this.

#98 A Dollar is a Dollar is a Dollar on 09.04.17 at 7:09 pm

Fairness must be the top consideration.

All dollars are equal. Deducting legitimate business expenses is fine.

Anything else is gaming the system for the 1%. We’ve had way too much of that for decades now.

Only fools would leave this country to practise medicine because of tax fairness being implemented finally here.

Be sure to pack lots of weapons and survival gear when you head off to Texas or Honduras, future ex-pats.

Talk about greater fools……

#99 Howard on 09.04.17 at 7:10 pm

#6 Prince Polo on 09.04.17 at 4:14 pm
May the knucklehead twins (Morneau & True-D’oh!) start taxing the gains on principal residences? I mean, let’s be fair to renters. Sheesh!

————————————

Another question I’d like to see useless reports ask the Prime Minister!

He wants to be fair to lower income brackets? Definitely remove the homeowner perks that disproportionately benefit the wealthy, first among them the capital gains exemption.

Why is nobody asking him and Morneau these kinds of questions??

#100 Darryl on 09.04.17 at 7:11 pm

Meant to post

Flop . Thanks for the reminder of Boom

#101 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 7:11 pm

#17 Keith on 09.04.17 at 4:35 pm
Well, we can hire Temporary foreign doctors. Bring them in, train them with the older doctors, put them on salary in small clinics for a five year term.
*****

Nice! That’ll fix em!
Or…we can get upset as a nation and demand that the government has a spending problem, and that the ‘fairness’ theme that they spout is just Beaver Biscuits.

Get rid of sprinkling, I don’t sprinkle, I can see the reasoning against it and my momma raised me not too. But the other arguments, cannot you see anything about the other side of the proverbial coin? This is not step A-Z and done here. This will continue.
And T2 will effectively lead Canada into the same mess as that of the USA where divisiveness rules the day.
‘Oh well, at least those bastards aren’t encouraged to put their neck on the line anymore’.

#102 This is the Last straw on 09.04.17 at 7:11 pm

From Author Bill Tufts:
“public sector pensions have $1 Trillion in assets paying zero tax. Morneau makes half Billion $$ a year consulting to them.”

Small Business is tired of the hypocrisy.
It may be time for a total redo of the tax system. The last one was 40 years ago and took 6 years of real consultations to get right

#103 Alberta Ed on 09.04.17 at 7:13 pm

Our two silver-spoon socialists, T2 and Finance Minister Moron already got theirs, what with their own personal fortunes (thanks to their Daddies), not to mention their gold-plated pension plans and taxpayer-provided salaries with substantial tax benefits. So why would they give a sh*t about people who actually work for a living, create jobs and wealth?

#104 common sense on 09.04.17 at 7:19 pm

This can’t be?

Here? In Canada?

No………

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-04/canadians-are-borrowing-against-real-estate-fastest-pace-ever

What’s the saying?

If you owe a little $ it’s your problem but when you owe a LOT of $ it’s their problem.

#105 bubu on 09.04.17 at 7:24 pm

Doctors are overpaid in Canada and they are not better than doctors in Europe… actually from my experience they are not as prepared in Canada as in many places in Europe where the make a decent income….

#106 Entrepreneur on 09.04.17 at 7:27 pm

Have to agree with #60 Debtslavecreator in that T2 will destroy the middle class but will add that T2 will destroy Canada. Because T2 and BM are “left wing globalists” and do not understand what makes the middle class, a deadly combination.

Wait a minute, we still have a nation with borders that have elections for the people in that country. And a true flag.

Keep pulling out the daggers on us T2 and BM and on many other issues which was promised over and over at election time.

#107 TurnerNation on 09.04.17 at 7:27 pm

Re #1 – my four closest friends/wingmen most easily can be described as : Black, Chinese, Jewish, Italian.
Guess which of them is not working due to very early retirement. It’s the first guy on list.

I didn’t learn this in school or have shoved into me by govt. Successful people hang together.
Economic Diversity blows.

Ps. BitCoin/Sh.tcoin is kaput.

M41ON

#108 Mark on 09.04.17 at 7:29 pm

“She is a shareholder participating in a dividend much like you would if you owned shares in my company.”

And what exactly was your wife’s paid-in capital? When someone buys shares in a company, they’re contributing capital, of which, they receive a pro rata return on that capital after all of the salaries and expenses have been paid.

A doctor who just hands his spouse a paycheque for not actually working in the practice is just cheating.

A general principle of tax law is that transactions, including those in labour, between related entities, must be done as though they were arms-length, ie: at fair market value. It is completely unfair to treat small businesses in the medical profession (IT profession, legal profession, etc.) any differently than any other taxpayer, whether individual, small business, or large corporation would be treated if they were to attempt the same.

#109 For those about to flop... on 09.04.17 at 7:32 pm

#59 Freedom First on 09.04.17 at 6:09 pm
#32 Flop

Freedom First
M64WI

6:51 pm
#32 Flopper

Nice post…

He always had a nice folksy tone to his comments.

Common Sense

M64WI

/////////////////////////////

Thanks guys ,just put up his GAP code tomorrow if you get time to do a post as I am hoping his family check in to see if we still care about their loss and we can show that we care about our extended family on here.

As far as his writing style Common,I once wrote a post that stated that Garth Thor Turner serves up a juicy steak each night for us to sink our teeth into and Boom had a way of cutting that steak down into bite size bits for the less educated people on the blog like myself without making you feel like a dummy.

He was a beauty…

M43BC
M64WI

#110 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 7:35 pm

#71 Algonquin Settler on 09.04.17 at 6:37 pm
I would like to see legislation that requires any increase in taxation rates to be accompanied by a corresponding percentage decrease in all politicians’ renumeration rates. Ditto for all spending above a true rate of inflation
*****

You have my vote!
Or I will vote for this guy because I like his campaign slogan:

Trudeau – creating divisiveness for political gain since 2015.

#111 Jay on 09.04.17 at 7:37 pm

# 66 Frank
“Because you’re lying about your wife working to avoid taxes. Pat yourself on the back all you want about taking risks and cry about RRSP in your written off leased car and scream into your expensed phone but it doesn’t change the fact you’re a tax cheat and it’s about to be over.”

Sorry Frank, she doesn’t take a salary. No cheating here.
She’s a shareholder. If there is no profit she gets zero.
We pay tax in the corporation and then she gets a dividend as a shareholder if we made money.
You don’t need to “work” in a business to own shares. It’s kind of the basis of capital markets and the reason you may have a job.
Feel free to open a business and take my place Frank. That way you can pay you fair share.

#112 Mario on 09.04.17 at 7:37 pm

Vote NDP!

#113 young & foolish on 09.04.17 at 7:39 pm

“For decades I know there are those barbers who take cash only …..keep questionable books and never pay their fair share of taxes…..and add to them the many small business cafes and handyman who do the same. And yet made enough wealth to own multiple houses and cry the blues about taxes….while they evade taxes.”

I can assure you this underground economic activity is rampant is the small business community.

#114 Jay on 09.04.17 at 7:42 pm

# 107 Mark
“And what exactly was your wife’s paid-in capital? When someone buys shares in a company, they’re contributing capital, of which, they receive a pro rata return on that capital after all of the salaries and expenses have been paid.”
Her “paid in capital” was the money we invested as a family to start our business. Why would you think 50/50 ownership is unfair? She’s my wife.

#115 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 7:43 pm

#87 This is the Last straw on 09.04.17 at 7:00

This raid on retained earnings saved for times of decreased earnings, illness, for pension, in lieu of overtime pay, to pay for maternity leave, is the last straw for small business. The attack on small business is rightfully sparking a tax revolt across Canada.

You’re kidding yourself if you believe it will not affect you.
It will cost more to buy stuff as the business will have to ^ prices. This may lead to inflation
Employees will be laid off or given part time work instead of full time jobs.
Your doctor will cut back hours because they can’t afford to pay their staff. It is illegal for MDs to set their own prices. MDs did leave Canada in the 1990s due to short sighted healthcare policy.. it will happen again. Stay healthy.

Liberals are engaging in the politics of envy to the detriment of all Canadians
*****
Well said.

#116 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 7:47 pm

#92 Rargary on 09.04.17 at 7:05 pm
My boss brags he makes $2000/yr. That his business has done +1b$ revenue. He laughs that he doesn’t give his employees raises after working for him 5yrs. He writes off his wife who he cheats on, his 4 primary school kids; & spends 100s of $1000s of dollars on his car collection every year…
He’s been looking a little crusty lately. Glad my tax $$s from my meger wages he pays me doesn’t enable this parasitic tax write-offs. Amen sister!
*****
You sound proud of him. Amazing that he lets you in to his inner world. Time to find a new boss? Time to report him?

#117 Old gringo on 09.04.17 at 7:47 pm

Although it may never happen, the surest and best way for this government to save money, is to reduce or cancel all the pensions these idiots that work ( joke) for the government receive.
No one else in the private world gets them or the security of these cushy jobs.
Slash, cut and chop and maybe just maybe things will finally return to normal.
But good luck with that.

#118 waiting on the westcoast on 09.04.17 at 7:48 pm

#66 Frank

Time to go to school about dividends… Ownership is separate from management. As a shareholder, you received dividends and pay tax personally.

But under the revision, the government is arguing that a shareholder cannot take dividends unless they are an active employee. As the example I gave a few days ago, that would mean none of us should be allowed to own dividend paying shares of any company (ie, a bank) unless we worked there and only up to the prorata share of my labour’s expense in the company… Ridiculous! Yet, the government seems to think that is fair.

Note – this is separate from income sprinkling which I agree that the person should be providing some service to the company to get paid.

#119 OttawaMike on 09.04.17 at 7:50 pm

Here are some spread sheets that take into account the proposed changes and the difference after maxing out TFSA’s and RRSP’s.

Works out to about 5% in extra corporate taxes after 10 years:

https://twitter.com/kevinmilligan/status/904791930176847872

In-depth spreadsheets on self-employment prepared by a university prof with a defined-benefit pension and tenure using his work resources and email. Leadership by example. — Garth

#120 M on 09.04.17 at 7:57 pm

People pay or people revolt. Nothing new about it.
Gov is broke.

#121 Paul on 09.04.17 at 7:57 pm

I really tired of all these whiny cry babies who make plenty of money and always use the “no pension” to try and justify their luxury lifestyle. So many self employed fudge the expenses and JT & BM know very well and are trying to crack down on the offenders. To bad that the honest ones are going to pay the price as well.

All federal regulated pensions are on the chopping block with Bill 27. Even the retired employees that planned their pension as the main source of retirement income could very well take a hit. Is that fair?
Garth..are you going to go to bat for those hard workers that depend on them and that were legally bargained for like you are for the so many crooked elite which is why this is happening?

#122 Deplorable Dude on 09.04.17 at 7:59 pm

Canada’s NAFTA negotiations reach new heights of social justice moonbattery…..

Demanding the US enact illegal Federal laws against it’s own constitution…..

No idea what our negotiators are smoking but apparently they don’t appear to bothered about actual trade negotiations…

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/09/04/nafta-update-outlook-for-agreement-virtually-disappears-canadas-chrystia-freeland-demands-control-of-u-s-legislation/

#123 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.04.17 at 8:00 pm

According to Reuters, New York Governor and the state’s attorney general vowed to sue President Trump if he scraps DACA.
Can’t doctor’s association, tax payers association sue Trudeau if he scraps “the loopholes”?
———————————————————–
That’s a big negatory on both counts.
N.Y. can’t sue Trump because no one is permitted to sue the president lest it be used as a way to hog-tie the white house.
And in Canada the Parliamentarians are immune from prosecution for their decisions, as are judges. The only exceptions would be for cases of high-treason against The Crown.

#124 Alex S on 09.04.17 at 8:00 pm

I hope they tax ‘rich’ people the next year, just before the next elections. With minimum wage increase in Ontario there will be enough damage done to get people booting liberals at both levels of the government.

I am a full time IT employee and have considered becoming a contractor or starting my own business many times. But when I look at my 5 weeks of vacation, paid sick days, nice medical benefits, RRSP matching, stocks, annual bonus, generous layoff compensation – why would I take any risk and start my own company?

I’d rather move to Seattle or Silicon Valley… I guess doctors and other professionals with skills in demand can do the same. I have come to Canada from a poor country and I have never been jealous of doctors or small business owners. Because I’ve seen what communist ideology does to the economy and the society.

#125 rainclouds on 09.04.17 at 8:03 pm

Here is a novel concept to ALL political parties including the previous Harper era

Spend less.

If u want tax fairness grow a set and eliminate all boutique tax incentives. same rate for all. And get your financialy incompetent hands out of our pockets. We (the workig stiffs) are sick of you systers selling out future generations to keep you in power. The gun registration cost overrun debacle should be a warning to all. Supposed to be a few mil. Became BILLIONS……

Apparently TOMORROW there will be a sign flown over their heads in Kelowna denouncing yet another IDEA cooked up in the insular confines of the liberal caucus .

Should be about the same temp as the face of the sun in the Okanagan. Cranky politicians ………..gonna get an earful from a crankier electorate . GOOD

I look forward to selfie boy backtracking.

#126 Annek on 09.04.17 at 8:03 pm

I do not feel sorry for all those business entrepreneurs who paid their wives and children salaries, bought expensive cars ( lease to own) for themselves and their children , claiming business travel when their travel was 5 km back and forth to work, kept all receipts ,when they went out to dinners with us ( we shared the costs but they claimed the entire expense) calling it a business expense and it was not.
Check out ” Sea cruises CME ” for doctors where they claim medical cruises off income tax and families travel with them for free.

I know a physician’s sister who would keep all dining receipts when we went out as a group and pass it on to her brother who would claim this as a business expense even though he was not there .( I won’t name his name, but he is quite famous)

I am glad that there are more checks and balances for these groups .
The poorest people are the ones who are salaried an have to pay taxes on every penny they make.

Then there are the entrepreneurs( self employed) who pay tax on some work , but are paid cash on the rest and are our millionaires, but on paper they show minimal income.
This would be electricians, plumbers , tradespeople etc who are so called self employed , able to deduct all kinds of expenses , pay their spouses for minimal work and so on. , You say they have no pensions , but check out their ” cash” under the mattresses.

Lots of salaried people have poor pensions. Look at what happened to those poor Sears employees, how about Stelco ( US Steele) . And so on. They cannot make the same kind of deductions as the entrepreneurs. Did thye not work hard? Where are they now?

No, I don’t fell sorry for those ” docs”
They can start a pension plan for themselves and their employees as a business expense.

Check out these sea cruises.
I would love to go on these, take my family and write it all off as an expense. But I cannot, as I am salaried and not a business .

https://www.continuing-education.net/?gclid=CjwKEAjw87PNBRDA_rHbypeJmFkSJADRcAivHLsQB6w2MgyMqptMyD0XUxLfKAY-_s–tiBkExtZlBoCK_7w_wcB

Well, Mr. Trudeau, are you proud of what you have done to people’s brains? Sad. — Garth

#127 Mark on 09.04.17 at 8:06 pm

“Her “paid in capital” was the money we invested as a family to start our business. Why would you think 50/50 ownership is unfair? She’s my wife.”

Okay, so she’s entitled to the return attributable to the office, the medical supplies that are kept in inventory, etc. A nominal return on her investment. There is a distinction here between the business of running a medical practice, which is a return on the physical plant and equipment of a medical practice. And that of actually providing professional medical services in a practice.

So yes, if the wife paid in half the capital to start the practice, then there’s no problem with her receiving half the returns from the medical practice itself, but there is a distinction to be made here between the practice, and the professional services rendered. In a business that deals with its employees at arms-length, the economic return on the physical plant and equipment of a medical practice is rather minimal compared to the return due to professional employment of a medical professional.

So returns to arms-length entities for their investment in the equity of a medical practice need to be similar to that of returns for non-arms length entities. IOW, its not reasonable to pay the spouse a return on equity that is in excess of that you would be willing to pay an arms-length entity for the same paid-in capital and retained earnings.

#128 waiting on the westcoast on 09.04.17 at 8:06 pm

Jay +1 on comments to Frank and Mark

Flop – thanks for the reminder on Boom! He is missed!

#129 Dolce Vita on 09.04.17 at 8:09 pm

So here is what the whining is all about:

-Corporation pays 12.5% on the first $500,000 of revenue.
-They get an $850,000 or so capital gain exemption.
-They want to pay each family member money from the corporation so to effectively lower the marginal tax rate and save much on taxes [2 people earning $100 K pay much less taxes than 1 person earning $200 K] OR pay it out as dividends to their children shareholders, and wife at an even much lower tax rate.
-Invest corporation income and have it taxed at 15%.

In effect, they want money paid to them by the corporation to be taxed at a marginal tax rate of Canadians earning:

$45,282 of taxable income. or less.

You can rely on 2 things in life:

DEATH AND TAXES.

The avoidance of both of these seems to keep our good Doctor’s very busy.

Their business is low risk and they are paid by the people via Government with no worries about lowering price to compete for sales, A/R that will never be collected and the list of business risks goes on that they are not exposed to.

If worried about your pension, then lobby government to include you in CPP/OAS like everyone else.
___________________________________

As for loss of life fear, here is some fear for you [Doctor’s take note]:

The next time you drive over a bridge in your car, get into an aircraft, get into a high rise building etc., pray that Engineer knew what he or she was doing when they designed it. Pray the welder and NDT technicians knew what they were doing. Pray that manufacturing personnel knew what they were doing. And pray the farmers that grew your food know what they are doing.

Also, pray the CT Scanner, MRI, Dialysis machine, radiation therapy, medical sophisticated electronics and metallurgy for surgery implements were designed and manufactured by people that knew what they were doing.

The list goes on.

Not one of the above individuals is no less/more important than a Doctor.

And to the smart asses here that make fun of teachers, well, someone had to teach all the above people to do what they do, even the farmers.

Oh, and to the self made high school drop outs that made millions, some one had to teach you how to read, add, multiply, divide and subtract, so get over you smugness.

#130 JSS on 09.04.17 at 8:10 pm

There are tons of foreign and international medical graduates that would be more than happy to fill the vacated positions of those Canadian physicians that have left to the US, or have retired.

Nice blackmailing though.

#131 leadership on 09.04.17 at 8:12 pm

# 118

In-depth spreadsheets on self-employment prepared by a university prof with a defined-benefit pension and tenure using his work resources and email. Leadership by example. — Garth

====

OK, nice rethorics, we get it.

How about the actual content of the spreadsheet, without the leadership part?

#132 henry on 09.04.17 at 8:14 pm

Canadian medical system is bound to fail
– people want to live forever
– little or no accountability
– all medical free
– there is no end what services are available
– somebody else will pay for all services
– families are raising dogs instead of children (dogs will
never pay taxes)

#133 Jay on 09.04.17 at 8:14 pm

#89 JWK
Maybe you should read it.
“Sprinkling income using private corporations, which can reduce income taxes by causing income that would otherwise be realized by an individual facing a high personal income tax rate to instead be realized (e.g., via dividends or capital gains) by family members who are subject to lower personal tax rates (or who may not be taxable at al
http://www.budget.gc.ca/2017/docs/plan/chap-04-en.html

#134 Jay on 09.04.17 at 8:16 pm

#126 Mark
I’m not a doctor.

#135 Al on 09.04.17 at 8:21 pm

Wait.. so theyre reducing their work hours, retiring earlier and spending more time with their family… So where’s the downside for the doctor’s? Is this a humble brag lol.

If they actually follow through on their plans (doubtful) this will mean well eventually have more doctors working less hours. Sounds like a win all around, doctors not just chasing extra dollars and more doctor positions. Unlike other endeavors, it’s hard to argue that doctors chasing extra dollars leads to a better product/service. Prolly the opposite.

#136 A belieber on 09.04.17 at 8:21 pm

I seriously doubt many doctors would leave. They can already make significantly better income in the US anyway….but an increase in the tax burden would cause a rush for the exits? To live in the land of Trump?

How funny would it be to make a documentary about doctors fleeing a Trudeau-tax plan in Canada and then crossing paths with everyone else fleeing the Donald lol.

#137 InvestorsFriend on 09.04.17 at 8:24 pm

Strong support for the improvements to tax fairness is evident in the comments.

The policy changes are in the right direction and are popular with most voters.

Mark has explained it well at 126

People were turning what is basically income from labor into dividend income from capital (taxed lower) and that is not really fair. Then they got into sprinkling that labour income converted to capital on dubious grounds. Abuse must be stopped.

In any case it hard to disagree with a dollar is a dollar.

#138 Teulon on 09.04.17 at 8:28 pm

55 Jay and 66 Frank
There’s a considerable difference between dividends on public company shares and dividends on privately controlled company shares.
In the BNS example offered by Jay, the non active spouse or children would each have to invest some $500K to have approximately $20K in income.
Whereas the shares issued in a private corporation are generally priced at a nominal value, say $100 for a significant ownership percentage. This would allow multiple “sprinklings” of $20K to non active shareholders, which is arguably unfair.

#139 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 8:31 pm

If my wife divorces me I am entitled to half of her wealth.
If my wife divorces me, after settlement we can effectively split income.
If we stay married and own shares in a business together that she only puts labour into, she is taxed on all the income in all forms.

Therefore we will divorce legally, remain intimate, effectively income split and she will live in one house while I live in our part time home to avoid the empty house tax.

#140 Ace Goodheart on 09.04.17 at 8:32 pm

Gartho is an odd creature. He is a conservative. But he likes and truly cares about people.

At some point we may have to invent a new political spectrum to refer to him.

Me? I could care less. Born in the “hood” worked my way up from hood rat to multi millionaire. Have the scars to prove it.

Spent my formative years in Europe and South East Asia.

I know what it feels like to negotiate your life over the barrel of an automatic weapon. I’ve done it. Returned from back packing a hardened creature wondering at the softness of North Americans. Never experienced true humanity. Never had to beg to live. Never had to negotiate your next breath. Never learned how worthless a bag of flesh we all are.

I returned with a brand new plan.

That is why I complement Garth. He cares and I don’t know why he does.

At any rate though I don’t agree with ETFs (have a look at how they really keep the fund price in line with the index) his fundamental point is dead on.

My fundamental point is: cash is king. Cash is like royalty. Like Kate Middleton doing her semi clothed dance for her chosen husband to be at college.

If you have the money you are around 6% per year per dollar. This is awesome.

From those who have faced death at the point of an automatic weapon as a dharma bum no good backpacker this is like the milk of the Gods. I Rasta.

#141 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 8:32 pm

Well, Mr. Trudeau, are you proud of what you have done to people’s brains? Sad. — Garth

—-

I wonder if Mr. Trudeau did this to people’s brain, or decades of wage stagnation/decline what Mr. Trudeau simply exploits with populist politics.

For Capitalism to work everybody needs to be happy financially, otherwise egalitarianism raises its ugly head very soon.

Globalism obviously hasn’t done a great a job, it does not make a growing percentage of people financially happy in the leading economies. These people don’t get excited that globalism grew living wages nicely in the rest of the world or how it creates billionaires, soon the first trillionaire.

What do you think, Mr. Turner?

I wrote about the causes of much wealth disparity a few days ago. Read it. — Garth

#142 BlueMoonPoster on 09.04.17 at 8:33 pm

#32 Flop

miss… Boom M64WI

#143 saskatoon on 09.04.17 at 8:35 pm

the vast majority of physicians in canada don’t contribute to the cost of government.

doctors are also one of the leading causes of death.

#144 ShawnG in TO on 09.04.17 at 8:36 pm

let’s face it, the tax grab is already been decided. t2 has a majority in parliament. money aint gonna flow back.

but since we are doing fair taxes, lets tax trust funds at the highest personal rate. i mean no one talks family trust funds unless you are seriously loaded and need big tax breaks. (with a few exceptions.) tax it at the same rate as doctors’ is a no brainer. unless somehow t2 thinks daddy’s money should have special consideration.

#145 Al on 09.04.17 at 8:37 pm

In-depth spreadsheets on self-employment prepared by a university prof with a defined-benefit pension and tenure using his work resources and email. Leadership by example. — Garth

Textbook ad hominem. That was a nice link from Ottawa Mike. The math is interesting.

#146 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 8:37 pm

#119 M on 09.04.17 at 7:57 pm
People pay or people revolt. Nothing new about it.
Gov is broke.
******

Gov is not broke, they have a spending problem. Why not ask you party of choice to push for a % decrease in spending each year for the four years of their potential term, if elected, as some one earlier pointed out?
This stuff matters.

#147 Mark on 09.04.17 at 8:38 pm

“But under the revision, the government is arguing that a shareholder cannot take dividends unless they are an active employee. “

Not really. The government is arguing that related entities cannot merely game compensation or pricing within their small businesses to accrue earnings in a business attributable to shareholders in excess of what would be permitted to a business which is comprised of non-related entities.

When large businesses deal with related entities, such as subsidiaries, they need to go to great lengths, including engaging external consultants, to ensure that transfer pricing, intra-subsidiary debt, etc., is fair, reasonable, and in accordance with market principles benchmarked against similar arrangements that exist between arms-length entities. Tax fairness implies that small business play by the same rules. Why should one kind of business have a magical structural advantage over another? Why should those willing to bend the rules have a structural advantage over those who aren’t?

So under the proposals (and common sense) the spousal shareholder in a medical corporation can have a return on their paid-in and retained capital, ostensibly used to purchase office equipment, maybe a building, and some basic working capital, but they’re not entitled to a return, through the corporation, for the professional services rendered by the spouse as they did not actually render such professional services.

#148 common sense on 09.04.17 at 8:40 pm

# JAY

Do u play a doctor on TV?

#149 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 8:41 pm

Nothing is going to happen. This Canada. We are being taken over by communistic globalists that will drain everyone’s wealth at the end of the road trip.

Better to drain your own wealth on a savage road trip is my line of thinking. Can’t wait to get my first disability check. Will I ever go back to IT consulting in Canada. Not a chance. Will I ever declare my off shore fx gains. Not a chance.

On my way Florida chasing Irma, going to get close but not that close. stopped in some hick town in NC for the night. It’s wine time.

Dr’s your screwed because you can’t think outside the box. Schooling is all I’m saying.

#150 don't you all get it? on 09.04.17 at 8:43 pm

It isn’t that the proposals by T2 for new businesses is bad-per-se. It’s that this is retroactively punishing for those who followed the rules and made decisions for decades.

I am an incorporated IT professional, largely required by recruiting firms and clients. I make, pre tax, about 50K-130K/year, depending on the year. I pay myself a salary about 75K/year… allows me to spread out the lean years from the profitable years.

I now have about 300K saved in my corporation after all these years.

But now, I have no way of getting that 300K out of my corporation without withdrawing it at my top marginal bracket, and T2 and gang wants to tax it at 73%.

The problem isn’t the proposed changes specifically… it is being called a crook for using “loopholes” and shafting me for the risks I have taken.

In other words, T2 is treating us like criminals and actively punishing us.


So what people don’t get is this…
I’ll just take a year off work, for example, to take the money out of my corporation at low marginal tax rates.

I can only imagine doctors who have amassed millions of dollars… instead of getting taxed at 73%, they’ll just not work and pull out their earnings.

#151 Keith on 09.04.17 at 8:43 pm

@ #100 Manitoba Whale

I’ll take the Liberals any day over the tax cutting, drunken sailor spending Conservative Party of Canada. Biggest fiscal morons in Canada, Mulroney left behind a $45 billion deficit in 1995, Liberals courageously cut spending and raised taxes to turn us into the envy of the world with consistent surpluses.

Harper had bad timing with the financial crisis, but ill advised tax cuts that sat half a trillion on corporate balance sheets idle years after the financial crisis had bottomed out were less than half the story. He increased the size of the federal government like crazy. Some conservative. We will be paying for many years for his fiscal irresponsibility.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/huge-growth-in-public-servants-under-tories

Whatever you do, don’t let these facts change your mind. You know better.

Remember, the 90’s Liberals increased taxes, and cut spending, the only path to fiscal sanity. Recovery was delayed, but not in the end denied as the world adjusted, economic growth improved and surpluses grew. Not easy, but something Conservatives won’t do.

“This government has a spending problem.” Nope, conservatives in Canada have a spending problem. They run the most deficits of any political party and the biggest deficits of any political party. They spend a fortune in lost revenue on tax cuts that consistently fail to pay for themselves, in a Friedman fueled fog of fiscal idiocy. Don’t vote Conservative, better to light your money on fire with a match.

#152 Nonplused on 09.04.17 at 8:44 pm

Seems to be 2 types of responses in the main today, on the one side people with small businesses who are about to have the economics of their operations changed dramatically, and on the other side a bunch of jealous children who think it’s a good idea to screw the doctors and make them work 70 hours a week until they croak and take all the money they earn.

In the end, though, people on both sides fail to realize what happens when a tax is inserted anywhere in a closed economy: All prices rise. Since doctors aren’t the kind of thing you can import from China, they will raise their rates until the economics work again or they will reduce hours worked. That’s just how it works. If it worked any other way the logical thing would be to raise everyone’s taxes, not just business owners, since we all have to pay the mortgage so it’ll just force everyone to work longer hours! In fact, why not raise taxes to 90% on everybody so we all have to work 160 hours a week! Brilliant!

It’s a sad state we’ve reached politically. Jealousy is the order of the day. However jealousy is no basis for good politics.

#153 SNAKE PLISSKIN on 09.04.17 at 8:45 pm

If you voted liberal you got exactly what you deserve. A trust fund drama teacher with a 39% ” majority ” . Suck it up morons.

#154 Doctors vs. Entrepreneurs in Canada on 09.04.17 at 8:46 pm

Also here is a debunk to doctors leaving with this tax plan happening:

– they will stay for the clear path to financial stability (trying to get to med school is the real risk for them; getting into the med school in Canada is like winning the lottery right now, it needs to be balanced out so we have doctors going in for the right reasons)
– there are thousands of doctors in Europe that speak English for example that would work in Canada for half the pay (this one has been said already many times, and as shocking as it is its a fact); if there is ever a doctor shortage they will come
-many doctors train for half the cost in eastern Europe and then work in countries like Canada or the US already.

#155 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 8:46 pm

Re income splitting. Try this. Make the wife the president and ceo of the Dr corp. Doc you are an employee of the corp. Split it down the middle.

If CRA says shit. Point out the despairity in public corps between say what a president of bank makes and his employees.

Have the wife freek out just like a sjw.

I think you have a case.

#156 Harry Potter on 09.04.17 at 8:49 pm

There will always be people who will want to work as doctors. Take a look what’s happening in russia, and how much money doctors make there. And, they still work. If some will be turned down by this tax increase, there will be others who will gladly take their place.

#157 Editrix on 09.04.17 at 8:50 pm

I didn’t vote for T2.

#158 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 8:59 pm

Ok it sucks getting old, or known by your better 1/2 Just discovered a genralmen’s club across the the street from this one star motel were staying in. Only three cars in the lot.

Asked the wife. Is it ok if I go in for a few lap dances.
She starts laughing hystericaly. Sure she said and the rest of the wine is mine.

She knows I can’t put this phone down when getting looped while on GF.

#159 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 9:04 pm

I wrote about the causes of much wealth disparity a few days ago. Read it. — Garth

Was it the piece that people can’t change the world but they can change themselves by renting and investing, instead of buying a home?

It is a nice advice to try to make the situation better, considering the circumstances, but it suggests that the circumstances were created and designed somehow by some unquestionable, unbeatable forces and not other people, who do want and do change the world to their own advantage.

At least today we see that you don’t actually believe in those mysterious forces, you can name them, like you called out Trudeau today, as someone who can and wants to change the world and assign winners and losers in that world, that regular joes supposedly can’t change.

#160 acdel on 09.04.17 at 9:05 pm

Itinerary for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Sept. 5:
Kelowna, British Columbia

3:15 p.m. The Prime Minister will visit the Kelowna Fire Department Fire Station 1.

Fire Station 1
2255 Enterprise Way

Notes for media:

Photo opportunity only
Media should arrive no later than 2:45 p.m.
6:00 p.m. The Prime Minister will hike Knox Mountain.

580 Knox Mountain Drive

Notes for media:

Photo opportunity only
Media should arrive no later than 5:30 p.m. in the parking lot
Media appearances

An interview with the Prime Minister will be featured on Castanet Kelowna.

An interview with the Prime Minister will air on Global Okanagan live at 5:00 p.m.
————————————————-

I do not know whether I should laugh or cry; this is an absolute ___________________, fill in the blanK!!

#161 Barney Rubble on 09.04.17 at 9:09 pm

T2 will get re-elected. Book it. Why? Because Canadian voters are among the laziest and most ill-informed in the world. All those selfies and photo ops make for great copy, and the unwashed eat it up. I actually had a lady tell me recently that T2 was doing a great job running the country. Her reasoning: “He’s so cute”. I kid you not. Most of the public are clueless when to comes to the economy, global affairs, trade, etc. All they care about is huggable T2 and his attractive family. Style beats substance in Canadian politics these days.

#162 Spectacle on 09.04.17 at 9:10 pm

Hmm….
My Doctor helped save my life. He is working his Bum off, and I can understand him pondering going to retire too soon. Now I’m on the search for another, of his capacity.

Speaking of entitled Soros Puppets, the failed Drama Instructor Trudeau II uses more fuel than those SJW’s could imagine. Eg: To fly to the Bahamas with his nannies, to the Aga khan private Island . Oh, and we middle class peeps paid the Khan $300,000,000 as a gift. That is 300 million dollars . What other wasteful and useless spending gets by us?

PM’s use of jet for family vacation emitted as much CO2 as average Canadian per year | CTV News
http://www.ctvnews.ca › politics › pm-s-use-of…

#163 Drew on 09.04.17 at 9:10 pm

I rent in C06, and am looking to buy in the area. As a result, I follow the real estate in the area closely. Prices have come down considerable in this area. The peak average was $1.7M, and based on the data i am seeing, prices are now closer to $1.3M.

Here are a few signs that the worst is yet to come…..

Purchased April 26, for $1.1M, now rents at $3k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18508132/41-VINCI-CRES-Toronto-Ontario-M3H2Y6-Clanton-Park

Purchased June 28, for $1.03M, now rents for $2.8k/mth

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18563383/48-DE-QUINCY-BLVD-Toronto-Ontario-M3H1Y5-Clanton-Park

Purchased on March 6, for $1.7M, now rents at $2.7k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18591454/39-LAURELCREST-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M3H2A7-Clanton-Park

Purchased May 10, for $1.26M, now rents for $2.5k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18360179/53-MCALLISTER-RD-Toronto-Ontario-M3H2N1-Clanton-Park

Purchased July 21, for $830k, rents for $2.6k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18598543/29-TILLPLAIN-RD-Toronto-Ontario-M3H5R1-Bathurst-Manor

Purchased June 2, for $1.4M, rents for $3.2k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18577928/10-TOKAY-CRT-Toronto-Ontario-M3H3V2-Bathurst-Manor

Purchased May 31, for $1.3M, rents for $2.9k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18567297/187-BRIGHTON-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M3H4E3-Bathurst-Manor

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is happening in other areas as well.

These are all cash flow negative investments. I don’t understand how these people are getting financing.

Garth, any comments on how amateur landlords & builders are able to continue to obtain financing for speculation? Can they do this through traditional routes, like mortgages or HELOCs with the big 5?

#164 HDJ on 09.04.17 at 9:10 pm

“…the former drama teacher now leading the nation.” Garth

In my opinion your description of Justin Trudeau is juvenile and tasteless. However, your blog is filled with put-downs directed at those who disagree with the Conservative/conservative views you express. You’re the smart guy, and those who support the Liberals or NDP are stupid. It’s becoming tiresome. Why not put a sock in it?

Is the description inaccurate? — Garth

#165 Ken from BC on 09.04.17 at 9:13 pm

Want to know JT’s and BM’s end game is? Read (or re-read) Animal Farm. “We are all created equal but some are more equal than others”. Fortunately for them, they are more equal than us.

#166 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 9:25 pm

#150 Keith on 09.04.17 at 8:43 pm
@ #100 Manitoba Whale

I’ll take the Liberals any day over the tax cutting, drunken sailor spending Conservative Party of Canada.
*****

The government of the day is the Liberal party; they are spending multiples more than they said they would. Why is it that you think I voted Conservative in the last election?
I have said on this blog before that where are the Paul Martins as opposed to the Bill Morneaus.
I am trying to find solutions, not promoting ideologies.
Try it.

#167 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 9:28 pm

Trudeau has exceptional political acumen.

He can take a hike and make it into a photo opp.

Other Rolling Stones cover coming – unless Trump drops the hammer (or bomb)?

#168 Leo Trollstoy on 09.04.17 at 9:29 pm

How is everybody doing on Holiday Monday?

I’m doing great!!

#169 Ace Goodheart on 09.04.17 at 9:32 pm

#148 smoking man: did that trip many times. The red eye to Florida. Down through SC to Bonaroo Manchester Tenesee then on to Tampa.

Revived an 86 VW westfalia for the trip. We were tripping the light fantastic. 80’s style.

Our wheels got us down there. Coolant temps and Exhaust gas temperatures became our wordship Gods. S’honeys was our buffet dream.

So if you want the life of the Georgia road. There are places to camp everywhere. Some legal some not. Fix your Westy as you go.

Dharma bum life is the rub. Thuggin the dream. I Rasta.

#170 Jay_Huhman on 09.04.17 at 9:34 pm

#153 “many doctors train for half the cost in eastern Europe and then work in countries like Canada or the US already.”

If Canada is like the US, this is not easy.

In the US, after having your medical degree evaluated as equivalent, you will need to pass the three medical exams, then you need to be accepted for a medical residency. The number of residency positions are fewer than the number passing the exams by several thousand annually. Since US hospitals prefer US trained physicians it is easy for foreign medical grads to be left unemployed.

#171 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 9:34 pm

We have an entire young generation trained by other people ak teachers who have no clue what the end game is by the power at all costs club.

Theys kids live in a fantasy world of a view master. Google View master if your young so you know what I’m talking about.

The next Gen. Ones in JK now will not only be trained to kill their grand parents to save the planet. Their parents are on the list too.

If you think SJW are bat shit crazy. Wait till you meet there kids.

#172 millmech on 09.04.17 at 9:34 pm

129 JSS
Yup, bring in the foreign trained doctors, if they are anything like the foreign trained and certified engineers that they send over I wouldn’t let them diagnose me for a nose bleed.
Careful what you wish for

#173 OttawaMike on 09.04.17 at 9:34 pm

In-depth spreadsheets on self-employment prepared by a university prof with a defined-benefit pension and tenure using his work resources and email. Leadership by example. — Garth

The “nutty” economics professor is exploring the other side of the debate and taxation is vaguely related to economics–no?

#174 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 9:40 pm

It makes sence that globalist are picking teachers for leading counties. Trump was a wrench in the gears.They know all the trigger words and the nice words.

Bad words are:
Freedom
Self reliance
Free enterprise
Critual thinking.
Masculinity.

The good words:
Climate change
Transgender
LGBQJFETKDLTBU and the list goes on.
Equality
Fairness.

Yeah a recipe for total wealth confiscation and wealth redistribution.

No this bear ….

#175 anon81 on 09.04.17 at 9:41 pm

I don’t give much weight to surveys where people can voice their displeasure. Of course it is negative sentiment.

But to the point of doctors hanging up their little black bags, fine. Good. Plenty of nurse pracitioners ready to fill in the gap. The system has been rigged and family health teams are raking in millions from tax payers in Ontario. NPs will fill in the gap at a far more affordable rate to the system.

Garth’s arguments against this tax are as effective as his argument for leasing vehicles.

#176 Al on 09.04.17 at 9:42 pm

Garth, post those links again to how we can complain to moreau and our local mps. Even a link to the post u made. Need to put the government on blast about this.

#177 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 9:44 pm

#163 HDJ on 09.04.17 at 9:10 pm

“…the former drama teacher now leading the nation.” Garth

In my opinion your description of Justin Trudeau is juvenile and tasteless. However, your blog is filled with put-downs directed at those who disagree with the Conservative/conservative views you express. You’re the smart guy, and those who support the Liberals or NDP are stupid. It’s becoming tiresome. Why not put a sock in it?

Is the description inaccurate? — Garth

Perfectly correct.

Same immaculate level of masterful accuracy as the description of Obama as a community organizer.

#178 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 9:48 pm

#154 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 8:46 pm

Re income splitting. Try this. Make the wife the president and ceo of the Dr corp. Doc you are an employee of the corp. Split it down the middle.

If CRA says shit. Point out the despairity in public corps between say what a president of bank makes and his employees.

Have the wife freek out just like a sjw.

I think you have a case.

===

That, plus for good measures the fact that the CEO is female, it’s her turn and part of the compensation is reparation for past unjustices, too many to list.

Give an extra dollar for that to make the case undeniable at the court of SJW.

#179 gfd on 09.04.17 at 9:52 pm

Canada Chief Sitting Bull Shit out of the office!

#180 Izzo on 09.04.17 at 9:52 pm

As mentioned before Garth you do a great job, however you lost touch on this one. There is absolutely no excuse for loopholes to be allowed for a bunch of whiny rich folks. This works both ways, the monopoly on medical school can be removed and it can be a free market. Allow as many doctors to go through the system and then the market will force their salaries to meet realities. Also, all these other business folks can leave the country to greener pastures where they allow tax cheats. See the free market works on all kinds of ways.

So, please spare us that all the doctors are leaving story because it ain’t going to happen.

#181 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 9:58 pm

My number 2 son lost three of his clients this week from the rehab business he’s in.

He’s devistated. First call from a widow was to his cell phone.

Dispite the fact that he’s saves many. He’s now on anti depressants to deal with this shit.

Fentonall a globalist way of culling the herd why is it even around. Got the best tin foil fadora in the world.

Why I’m not dead yet for my risitance to evil bastards.

They know I’m going to chalange Irma. Not realizing I’m from Nictonite with a plasma flier.

I’ll be good.

#182 Sultan of Sudbury on 09.04.17 at 9:59 pm

The harder it becomes to bank a dollar, the less demand there will be for spending and more income is required to hit savings objectives.

This is going to hurt in multiple ways.

#183 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 10:07 pm

#106 TurnerNation on 09.04.17 at 7:27 pm

Ps. BitCoin/Sh.tcoin is kaput.

Your Bitcoin posts have the aura of personal butthurt.

My pocket money investment in it to play and learn is one of my most enjoyable one.

The feeling of being able to transfer something anywhere in the world, virtually real time, that acts as a money for all practical purposes without any banking or corporate infrastructure is like browsing the web page of a Swiss library on modem at the first time.

The rate of return is unlike anything else I tried.

Best of all, it is a perfect teacher to learn how to get emotionally detached while watching a roller coaster ride.

I am sorry if you had a different experience.

#184 'when I see something, I say something' on 09.04.17 at 10:08 pm

#162 Drew on 09.04.17 at 9:10 pm
I rent in C06, and am looking to buy in the area. As a result, I follow the real estate in the area closely. Prices have come down considerable in this area. The peak average was $1.7M, and based on the data i am seeing, prices are now closer to $1.3M.

Here are a few signs that the worst is yet to come…..

Purchased April 26, for $1.1M, now rents at $3k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18508132/41-VINCI-CRES-Toronto-Ontario-M3H2Y6-Clanton-Park

Purchased June 28, for $1.03M, now rents for $2.8k/mth

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18563383/48-DE-QUINCY-BLVD-Toronto-Ontario-M3H1Y5-Clanton-Park

Purchased on March 6, for $1.7M, now rents at $2.7k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18591454/39-LAURELCREST-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M3H2A7-Clanton-Park

Purchased May 10, for $1.26M, now rents for $2.5k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18360179/53-MCALLISTER-RD-Toronto-Ontario-M3H2N1-Clanton-Park

Purchased July 21, for $830k, rents for $2.6k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18598543/29-TILLPLAIN-RD-Toronto-Ontario-M3H5R1-Bathurst-Manor

Purchased June 2, for $1.4M, rents for $3.2k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18577928/10-TOKAY-CRT-Toronto-Ontario-M3H3V2-Bathurst-Manor

Purchased May 31, for $1.3M, rents for $2.9k/mth.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/Single-Family/18567297/187-BRIGHTON-AVE-Toronto-Ontario-M3H4E3-Bathurst-Manor

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is happening in other areas as well.

These are all cash flow negative investments. I don’t understand how these people are getting financing.

Garth, any comments on how amateur landlords & builders are able to continue to obtain financing for speculation? Can they do this through traditional routes, like mortgages or HELOCs with the big 5?


These are not rental investments
It takes about a year to obtain clearances and building permits, so the new owners rent them out until they are ready to build, the probability of them being ‘amateurs’ is low. the likelihood that the purchases are made with all cash is high, why don’t you count your own money? shouldn’t take long

#185 Pete on 09.04.17 at 10:11 pm

A Doctor is a very important part of our medical system. Any tax loop hole they are using should be allow to continue. Being a Doctor is hard work. Having to deal with sick, injured(blood) and everything else in between . Plus they maintain the health of Canadians so Canada can be great. To even become a Doctor you have to be smart and able to handle blood,needles , sick people etc. The average guy who starts a business is not special .

#186 A deplorable waste of space dust on 09.04.17 at 10:12 pm

#180 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 9:58 pm

My number 2 son lost three of his clients this week from the rehab business he’s in.

He’s devistated. First call from a widow was to his cell phone.

Dispite the fact that he’s saves many. He’s now on anti depressants to deal with this shit.

Fentonall a globalist way of culling the herd why is it even around. Got the best tin foil fadora in the world.

Why I’m not dead yet for my risitance to evil bastards.

They know I’m going to chalange Irma. Not realizing I’m from Nictonite with a plasma flier.

I’ll be good.

..

Don’t you live in st maarten now?? you are about to get creamed by irma…. hope you have hurricane insurance!

“A string of Caribbean islands are now under hurricane warnings, including Antigua, Barbuda, Anguilla, Montserrat, St. Kitts, Nevis, Saba, St. Eustatius, St. Martin/Sint Maarten and St. Barts, the hurricane center said”

#187 Keith on 09.04.17 at 10:12 pm

#165 Manitoba Whale

“They are spending multiples more than they said they would.”

Unspecific. On what? Pencils, travel, national defense, the entire expenditure of the federal government? Evidence? Links? No, just a unsubstantiated general statement.

If not the current Liberals under Trudeau, it would be the Conservatives or the NDP, or will be. Who do you prefer from a fiscal perspective.

#188 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 10:14 pm

156 Editrix on 09.04.17 at 8:50 pm

I didn’t vote for T2.

====

The proper wording in the current Associate Press guidelines: “It’s not my prime minister”.

#189 Lead Paint on 09.04.17 at 10:14 pm

Rich trust-fund kids leading the mob against self-made entrepreneurs. They can’t comprehend the resentment they are generating. They should ask Bob Rae how things worked out for him.

#190 Ace Goodheart on 09.04.17 at 10:14 pm

I think the question is: do you want to engage with this system?

Years ago, on a roof top in South East Asia, palm trees rustling in the night breeze, I asked myself the same question.

What do you think my answer was?

#191 45north on 09.04.17 at 10:17 pm

The Honourable Bill Morneau
Minister of Finance

( with a copy to David McGuinty, MP )

tax fairness for the middle class

I worked 40 years in the Federal Civil Service. I’m now retired. I mention my background because the proposed tax changes for small business will not affect me in the short term but I am concerned they will be a number of unintended consequences for the Canadian economy.

The proposed tax changes will negate the Government’s effort to create technology superclusters:

Innovation superclusters initiative (ISI): Program guide – Innovation …

The link above talks about small and medium-sized enterprises ( SMEs ) who are the precise object of the proposed tax changes. It also talks about critical mass. The proposed tax changes will inhibit and I think stop the development of superclusters – Canada does not at present have a technology supercluster. The following link supports this statement:

Primer on technology superclusters and a fact base on … – McKinsey

I’m thinking of two men that I know who are world-class experts in their fields: one in the area of airplane design and the other in the area of computer security. They may leave Canada to avoid the proposed tax changes. The affect of their leaving would be to reduce the knowledge and expertise in Canada upon which our prosperity depends.

Another unintended consequence of the proposed tax changes will be to reduce the diversity and number of small business. I worked for Agriculture Canada for 30 years. One of the concerns was the concentration of farming – big farms taking over small farms. It’s been going on for 40 years. The proposed tax changes threaten to increase the concentration of industry – big firms taking over small firms. I know a small business owner. It’s a furniture business. He built the business from the ground up. The proposed changes will hasten his retirement and I think cause the business to be more concentrated. Not to say the man is a saint. He has a number of personal boats for which he has insurance but he charges the insurance as a cost of his business. This is not fair but this inequality needs to be addressed with precision. The other unintended consequence will be that the employment of his workforce will be threatened.

Another unintended consequence will be to reduce the availability of medical care. Doctors and nurses are well organized and will make their own case.

Another unintended consequence will be a net loss of revenue to the Government. People will simply cut back on their work to avoid taxes.

I believe that you have done your homework. The idea of “tax fairness for the middle class” has been put in front of focus groups and the result has been favourable. It has been favourable across the country. However this is a short term thing. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to stand up to organized criticism over the next two years.

The tax laws and regulations should be reviewed. As well as the actual practices of Revenue Canada. The goals should be:
to increase the technology expertise in the country
to improve the availability and quality of medical care
to increase the diversity of Canadian business
to improve the employment prospects of Canadians – more people working in better jobs
to improve the fairness of Canadian taxes

In that order.

Yours sincerely

45north

#192 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 10:19 pm

#177 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 9:48 pm
#154 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 8:46 pm

Re income splitting. Try this. Make the wife the president and ceo of the Dr corp. Doc you are an employee of the corp. Split it down the middle.

If CRA says shit. Point out the despairity in public corps between say what a president of bank makes and his employees.

Have the wife freek out just like a sjw.

I think you have a case.

===

That, plus for good measures the fact that the CEO is female, it’s her turn and part of the compensation is reparation for past unjustices, too many to list.

Give an extra dollar for that to make the case undeniable at the court of SJW.
….

I was waiting for that sue. Make sute the toy boy gets the CEO job. enjoy working your ass off when your heart lies in best feeding and living your child.

Lesbians got to you. The Globalists generals.

#193 Industrial Guy on 09.04.17 at 10:20 pm

The US has a huge tax your Anesthesiologist will enjoy paying if he/she plans to move there. They call it malpractice insurance. Maybe we should charge your Doctor the REAL cost of their education before they leave Canada. I know, it sounds like Something Trump would do.

Canada’s GDP grew at 4.5% annual pace in 2nd quarter, fastest since 2011.
Yeppers Garth! It’s the end of the World as we know it.

I used to contribute a comment sometimes to this blog … but these days I’m just too busy. My part of the manufacturing sector is booming. Sales to the USA have never been higher. Those ******* Liberals!

I don’t want to pay more taxes. Who does? Taxes are the cost of civilization. I support free post secondary education but I also support giving small businesses a tax break when they start up. As long as the definition of a “small business” is not some tax dodge as it is presently in the USA.

I don’t want debt stopping our brightest from starting the next Microsoft in Waterloo. I want to let them invest all of the profits they make (if any) back into the business for the first three to five years.

Our tax system needs a major overhaul. If one group gets income splitting, then all should have it. If we can’t afford that … then we can’t afford the present system either. What happened to the doctrine of fairness. It used to be a big thing in Canada.

#194 Joe Schmoe on 09.04.17 at 10:20 pm

Tax increases are always “fair” if someone else is paying.

Libs did a great job of prentending the “middle class” included the lower class…got deplorables to vote in a direction. Very inclusive. Snagged the NDP voters.

Trump obivously payed attention.

An MD or dentist who is truely doing well will pay 300-400K in taxes. This income sprinkling nonsense that will increase that bill 15-20K? No one cares about income sprinkling.

Bill and Justin are just crabby. People with corporations are not pulling money out until this government changes hats. JT/BM are trying to force the money out of small companies so they can tax and spend more. They aren’t seeing the tax windfall from personal tax rate increases so they are digging deeper.

How much does a middle class person pay using the same infrastructure as the doc pay?

Fair indeed.

Libbys base fairness on what is left after taxes, not earned.

#195 The Loonie Doctor on 09.04.17 at 10:22 pm

A few comments on the comments:
1) I don’t think it is 80 percent, but many doctors will likely scale back their work. I already have. For me, I lose 5% to the Wynned OHIP clawback, 5% to a tithe by the University I am affiliated with, and on over 220000 54% to the taxman. That is 38 cents on the dollar and if you spend it there is HST to make it 25 cents of buying power. A logical person would spend less and work less in that environment. Doctors are trained to analyze and be logical -this has been a hot topic. The main value of money over a certain threshold is to buy you time. The younger generation of doctors have work life balance top of mind. Don’t kid yourself into thinking they will just work more to make up the lost income. The people saying that obviously don’t know many young doctors- I work with about 100/yr closely.
2) For those saying there is no risk in medicine. Ask the person who spent years studying and working to try and get into medicine but did not make the cut how that risk worked out for them. There is also risk because you can’t set your own fees and they can be unilaterally cut like in Ontario while inflation costs in your practice march on. Also, you could train in an area for 6 years then not find a job because of OR time rationing – especially if you don’t treat a politically priority disease like hips,cataracts, or cancer. You could also get incorporation tax benefits in lieu of a fee increase like we did 10 years ago and then have the federal government change the rules.
3) For those pointing out European doctors make less. It is true but they also work about half the hours and are public servants with all the perks. That would cost a fortune here to emulate. Be careful what you wish for.

#196 Felix on 09.04.17 at 10:27 pm

Not surprisingly, to see in today’s photo, clear evidence of a dog trying to suffocate and murder a human.

Get a cat instead. Smarter. Nicer. Better looking.

Or wait for a mutt to off you in your sleep :(

#197 domain on 09.04.17 at 10:31 pm

For those of you who are in favor of these changes to these tax rules, which many businesses have adapted to in their tax planning and consumption behavior, here is one way that may affect you directly:

Every additional tax dollar removed from the Small Business, and its shareholders is a dollar that simply cannot be spent locally. As these $’s are forcefully removed and sent to Ottawa to be spent as carbon credits for other nations, and a whole host of other pet projects the government has, that may not benefit you on iota.

However, where you may share directly in the ‘benefits’ is in the reduced consumption that must occur in your local economy by the Smal Businesses and their shareholders, and the multiplier effects it can have as the money flows from one pocket to others via voluntary exchange of capital and goods.

So even if you disagree with the tax system, your municipality still benefits from these tax rules that are currently in place, if you have small business owners and/or doctors in your municipality.

These changes will usher in reduced consumption by those who are most capable of discretionary spending, which is the real honest distribution of wealth…

#198 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 10:34 pm

185 A deplorable waste of space dust on 09.04.17 at 10:12 pm
#180 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 9:58 pm

My number 2 son lost three of his clients this week from the rehab business he’s in.

He’s devistated. First call from a widow was to his cell phone.

Dispite the fact that he’s saves many. He’s now on anti depressants to deal with this shit.

Fentonall a globalist way of culling the herd why is it even around. Got the best tin foil fadora in the world.

Why I’m not dead yet for my risitance to evil bastards.

They know I’m going to chalange Irma. Not realizing I’m from Nictonite with a plasma flier.

I’ll be good.

..

Don’t you live in st maarten now?? you are about to get creamed by irma…. hope you have hurricane insurance!

“A string of Caribbean islands are now under hurricane warnings, including Antigua, Barbuda, Anguilla, Montserrat, St. Kitts, Nevis, Saba, St. Eustatius, St. Martin/Sint Maarten and St. Barts, the hurricane center said”

Not there yet. The ice cream store owner would not budge on price. I’ll get a better deal next week.

#199 M-cube on 09.04.17 at 10:36 pm

If a doctor doesn’t like the job or the tax situation – they can all just $%# quit. There are enough highly qualified foreign training doctors already in this country that would be happy to work for half their wages. But they cannot practice in this country because the medical gangsters protect their turf from the free-market forces of supply and demand that affect most other industries.

So Garth, but no sympathy from me and I’m an independent business operator like you.

#200 45north on 09.04.17 at 10:45 pm

Manitoba Whale: The government of the day is the Liberal party; they are spending multiples more than they said they would. Why is it that you think I voted Conservative in the last election?

I am trying to find solutions, not promoting ideologies.

Keith: Unspecific. On what? Pencils, travel, national defense, the entire expenditure of the federal government? Evidence? Links? No, just a unsubstantiated general statement.

Shared Services:

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2016/11/11/trump-it-up/comment-page-1/#comment-483969

http://ottawacitizen.com/business/local-business/circuit-overload-why-shared-services-canada-is-struggling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/shared-services-other-big-problem-data-centres

The senior civil service created Shared Services. It’s theirs. The Conservatives and Liberals just signed the cheque.

#201 Manitoba Whale on 09.04.17 at 10:47 pm

#186 Keith on 09.04.17 at 10:12 pm
#165 Manitoba Whale

“They are spending multiples more than they said they would.”

Unspecific. On what? Pencils, travel, national defense, the entire expenditure of the federal government? Evidence? Links? No, just a unsubstantiated general statement.
******

Uh..gee..uh..I donno…
Macleans this summer and probably CBC on budget day in late March.
Again, why do you insist that I voted Conservative?
Can we not agree that what comes into the coffers should somewhat resemble what leaves the coffers?
Is this not what the Chretien/Martin Liberals did in the late 1990’s? Why was it good then and not now?
There must be Liberals who feel this way, where are they now?

#202 Sue T2? on 09.04.17 at 11:00 pm

#189 Ace Goodheart on 09.04.17 at 10:14 pm

I think the question is: do you want to engage with this system?

Years ago, on a roof top in South East Asia, palm trees rustling in the night breeze, I asked myself the same question.

What do you think my answer was?

===

You returned to enjoy your parents cottage.

#203 T on 09.04.17 at 11:10 pm

#126 Mark on 09.04.17 at 8:06 pm

A marriage is an equal partnership. This equal partnership invests in a business. The business creates revenues and hopefully profits. Profits are divided amongst the investors.

Spouse ‘a’ is entitled to their fair share of profits equal to spouse ‘b’. Spouses share finances, risk, assets, knowledge, time.

It has nothing to do with initial or ongoing investment, treatment at arms length or not, etc. It has everything to do with common sense.

#204 kbean on 09.04.17 at 11:14 pm

#194 The Loonie Doctor

regarding your second point: in my profession (researchers in biomedical sciences), folks do more than 12 years in university with no guarantee of a job after getting out. If they do land a job, it won’t pay anywhere close to what doctors pay and they’ll have to pay down their debt. Should we start to incentivize them for taking the risk? Or maybe they are doing what they chose/love to do and have to live with the consequences.

The businesses are getting more than enough perks from a tax point of view. If do not have the stomach to start a business and live with all the consequences, please do all of us a favour and don’t. It’s high risk, high reward.

#205 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 11:17 pm

DELETED

#206 Ryan on 09.04.17 at 11:40 pm

to Zed, #7
I don’t see how a doctor or a plumber can think it is fair that he/she can “share” the income with the family to reduce the overall tax paid. That is not fair.

To compensate the affected people, create a way for them to save for their retirement,”

it’s not “fair” government employees save NOTHING after 30 years and have, literally , a better retirement than if i saved literally half a million dollars over 30 years. someone working for any level of government WILL make over $50k/ year, WILL likely live at least 20 years (85 being the avg age of death, government workers retire 55-60), that’s at least a million dollar pension, AND it never goes down, but UP with inflation paid for by the plumber / doctor who had no such worry free benefit.

You bet your ass it’s fair, and the “create a way for them to save for retirement” again government oversight that will save you ? Ha. Ha. Ha. There was a way for the family to control it themselves : pay family members (split income?) was a very decent way to do it, giving up a a pension paid for by single parents to take on risk to self manage is a bad thing ? yes, if you are a left leaning extreme socialist. take that money from that single parent, yup yup !

#207 Keith in Calgary on 09.04.17 at 11:42 pm

Socialism already killed our medical system………these tax changes will not.

If I get really sick I won’t be looking for a doctor here anyways……..it’s off to the airport for me.

#208 T on 09.04.17 at 11:53 pm

#146 Mark on 09.04.17 at 8:38 pm

Spouses should be treated equally in all business ventures. This includes return on investments, ie profits from a cash positive business. If business profits are increased by lower wages being paid to the more active spouse, that’s the perogative of the business owners.

Who are you to start dictating how you feel it should be and what is common sense?

I suggest you are lacking common sense.

#209 T on 09.04.17 at 11:58 pm

Why does the government not go after those companies who can afford to blow $800M on renaming a building? There has to be some easy taxable funds there.

I believe we call them banks.

#210 Russ on 09.05.17 at 12:17 am

Cecil Henry on 09.04.17 at 5:39 pm

My letter to Bill Morneau et al. (Why not share??)

Dear Mr. Morneau:

Canadians (productive, working people) are fed up with taxation. I did not go to university, get advanced training, take risks, loans, forego spending and sacrifice free time in ORDER TO earn more and THEN have it taxed away to be redistributed to others….

A free person is responsible for and decides that for themselves.

=======================

Hi Cecil,

Good position up to that unfortunate position about free persons.

The Federal Government (elected and civle servants) do not consider Canadian citizens as free persons. That position is very clear.
You are a “corporate citizin” by virtue of your SIN. The gov’mint has sole authority on how to tax corporate.

Get in line.

Cheers, R

#211 Bob Dog on 09.05.17 at 12:24 am

Why can’t the government just flood the market with highly educated health care professionals just as they did with the tech industry. There are millions of highly skilled people willing to move to Canada and work for less. Globalization demands it.

Profit über alles.

#212 Ron on 09.05.17 at 12:24 am

This is an email I sent to Bill. It hits home with me not only because I am a self employed businessman but I have a brother in law who went into the civil service right out of high school. He is not capable of running a lemonade stand yet rose to the top of the civil service. He retired at 55 with a pension of approx. $130,000. In his life time he has had zero stress and if you do the math does better than any doctor in Canada. This is our problem. Here is the letter.

I doubt this email will have any effect but it is worth a try.

The real problem with Canada is not the intelligent, motivated, and passionate people who propel Canada forward not paying enough taxes but the bloated and over compensated federal civil service.

I am a small business owner who has created jobs throughout by career. In return I am labelled by society as exploiting workers and never paying enough taxes. In reality we create jobs and wealth for Canadian society. On the flip side government workers are grossly overpaid, their ranks are bloated and have incredible pensions that make them millionaires the moment they retire. YES YOU HAVE TO REALIZE that if I was to buy an annuity to pay me exactly what an average federal civil servant gets it is WELL OVER A MILLION DOLLARS. This is all for a financial ELITE class of society who creates nothing and actually puts stumbling blocks into the path of productive people.

Please go after the really plague and cancer of Canadian society……government out of control and the largest millionaire class in the history of Canada. The following is part of an article about pubic workers.

Similar work done by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business determined that when all compensation is taken into account and divided by hours worked, federal workers made more than 40% what their private counterparts made, provincial workers made 35% and municipal employees nearly 30%.
This has come about because governments are gambling with someone else’s money – namely taxpayers’ money. As employers, governments can keep giving rich raises to public employees because they know they can tax you to pay for it.
The result is that as taxes rise, private-sector workers are working harder and taking home less so they can pay for better pay and more perks for their neighbours who work in the public sector.
Middle-class taxes have been rising and wages stagnating not because the “rich” are getting away with income murder. The middle class is stuck in a rut because governments are huge and getting bigger, and their No. 1 expense is public workers’ compensation – about 50% of total government expenditures.
It’s not the One-Percenters we should be resenting. It’s the politicians who cannot restrain growth in the size of government and who lavish pay and benefits on Canada’s 3.7 million public sector workers.
[email protected]

#213 James MF on 09.05.17 at 12:26 am

If doctors decide to retire or “leave” because they think a better deal may be found elsewhere then foreign-trained doctors will replace them and it will be at lower cost. Canada’s neoliberal economy is structured this way. To say that only some professions, not all, should be subject to market forces seems a contrary way of organizing things.

#214 Boots on the Ground in Ptown on 09.05.17 at 12:32 am

#32 for those about to flop
#108 for those about to flop
———————————-
Thanks for the reminder about BOOM. always enjoyed his folksy easy going posts that broke down the “steak dinner” from Garth. Its been one year since i discovered this blog. I too recall noticing BOOM went missing and got to know our blog host better when, last winter during the holidays, sir garth gave us some insight into BOOM’s life and who he was.
Flop, always enjoy your posts too-you have “voice” in your writing and arent afraid to say what you mean/feel. Appreciate your research on listings also.

Too bad we didnt make it back “home” to the Okanagan this wknd i may have felt compelled to make a trip to Kel with a sack of rotten tomatoes. i may not be a high income earner, but as a born American i take offense in how this “tax fairness” was brought about. Its pure liberal cowardice, 75 day consult period and during gov summer recess? Dispicable. i only wish i was back living in BC for next election so i could practice my “new as of 2015” canadian citizenship and vote these entitled trust fund kids out.

M64WI
F33WA

#215 FLHTK on 09.05.17 at 12:33 am

For all the people that voted Liberal! You voted a pot smoking drama teacher to run the country! Good on ya! Hope you are the same people that are 1%ers and are going to get raped on taxes. Bend over he’s going in dry!

#216 Damifino on 09.05.17 at 12:59 am

#176 Sue T2?

In my opinion your description of Justin Trudeau is juvenile and tasteless.
—————————-

We’re all entitled to our opinion.

In my opinion, he should be called Son o’ Pierre. That’s exactly why he is PM. Justin Belcher, drama teacher from Guelph just wouldn’t have done it.

But I must admit to the ladies, he’s an impressively buff specimen, for all the weight that carries in Ottawa. After all, look what it did for Joe Clark.

#217 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.05.17 at 1:04 am

#116 Old gringo on 09.04.17 at 7:47 pm
Although it may never happen, the surest and best way for this government to save money, is to reduce or cancel all the pensions these idiots that work ( joke) for the government receive.
Slash, cut and chop and maybe just maybe things will finally return to normal.
———————————————————
Will not happen until WW3 for the same reason that the police aren’t reprimanded for their wrongful behaviour; the power structure needs to keep their minions happy lest their grip on the whole system slips. No one keeps an allegiance to those who don’t have their back.

#218 NoName on 09.05.17 at 1:04 am

Retired Boomer – WI, great guy he was, nice comments, sometimes snappy replies, mustang convertible, cocktail Thursdays, managed to win money while he was having drink at his local pub. What’s not to like about guy?

I remember there was time when TN was first for days at the time, i guess one day Boom had enough of it. Who was a first today?

#7 Retired Boomer – WI on 01.26.12 at 10:19 pm
turner nation…..get a life

I love Boom’s comment about “tree police”.

#64 Retired Boomer – WI on 07.10.14 at 9:02 pm
Interesting story. When the “tree police” come to see about removal of a private tee on private property, where do they get the authority to request a security deposit on a boulevard tree?
What if that dam boulevard tree is an American Elm and croaks from dutch elm disease in the next few year? Or, what if the tree is a Locust, or Beech subject to similar pest infestation?
Yeah remove the rubber rug, replace the dirt, but tell them to stick their 4 grand where the sun don’t shine. You will replace the tree if it croaks.
Now you understand why American’s own guns, and sometime it pays to display and clean them when idiots like the “tree police” arrive.
Several posts talk of strange, and idiotic rules in various provinces, where did, and who comes up with this crap?
Apparently Canada is not the friendly open place it seems to the unconnected. Thank Goodness we have no such idiocy here locally, but I would not assume it is the case all over. A good reason to take up the art of consuming adult beverages however.

In one of his post he mentioned of monte carlo, when i red that, i wondered why he would mention “forecasting method” used in manhatan project and in engineering autonomous machines, for planning his retirement, that day i wonder a bit about it, and every time as i was trying to figure it out will take for me to get one and quarter so i can relax a bit… Funny he mention a vanguard, only vanguard i knew up to that point was my camera tripod, and binoculars. oh the horror…

#33 Retired Boomer – WI on 08.12.14 at 8:44 pm
We are in year 2 of retirement. Today I spoke with a financial planner from Vanguard. Taking my defined pension $1,000 a month, my wires social security $919 and my social security at age 66…. I asked him how are we fixed to be living on $45,000 per anum plus 3% COLA based on our current nest egg?
He ran the Montecarlo modeling to age 100 (both 63) and it is 100% using the $45,000 as the base rate.
He further informed me I could increase the number to $59,000 per anum before the projections to age 100 drops to 99%. Anything over 85% they say is manageable so looks like we are in fair shape going forward.
Today 42K is my comfortable spending for the past 2 years, so that allows the upgrade in cars etc. when needed, healthcare expenses, taxes, insurances, and all of lives unnecessary bullshit.
No not the “greatest” retirement numbers on earth, but for our needs very comfortable, and might leave the kid something.
That slow and steady plan does work!! Yeah tortoise!!

One time i posted pbs documentary about mut. funds mngmnt fees, hes comment to me.

#104 Retired Boomer – WI on 11.22.14 at 5:18 pm
#48 No Name

I thought that PBS Documentary “The Retirement Gamble” was quite on target. Yes, minimizing your investment “costs” will increase your earnings.
A ‘good’ Asset allocation, such as Garth’s 5 ETF idea, and LEAVING THE DAM THING ALONE will help much more. Simply re-balancing to your original asset allocations once each year is sufficient. No need to over complicate a good basic idea, start now!

And i did, minus the complications…

NoName
M41ON
M64WI

#219 BC_Doc on 09.05.17 at 1:20 am

A sensible article from the Moody’s Gartner blog:

http://moodysgartner.com/the-demonization-of-small-business-and-their-advisors/?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=View-Original

Did someone declare it open season for class warfare tonight in the Greater Fool comments section?

#220 James Kook on 09.05.17 at 1:23 am

Do not worry about self-employed and small businesses.
They will raise prices to cover any losses.

Who will suffer is average joe, who ultimately pays for everything.

#221 Pete from St. Cesaire on 09.05.17 at 1:29 am

Smoking Man, I’m glad to see that you understand the world as it really is. I’ve spent my whole life trying to get people to see the real picture; nobody want’s to listen.
Keep telling it like it is.

#222 SoggyShorts on 09.05.17 at 1:35 am

#125 Annek on 09.04.17 at 8:03 pm
*****************
You do realize that the changes in no way whatsoever prevent people from commiting the crimes you describe, don’t you?

How about since some wage workers make a little cash on the side doing some other job we raise the taxes on all wage earners by 10%? Sound fair?

Or how about the fact that some Mcdonalds employees sneak an extra McNugget into their friends order? I think we should raise the taxes on all minimum wage earners regardless of where they work by 20% to offset this. Seem fair?

#223 SoggyShorts on 09.05.17 at 1:36 am

#21 CentralP on 09.04.17 at 4:51 pm
How many will actually follow through with any of these threats though? T.

Pardon my ignorance, but how would working fewer hours help? With the new tax rules would they actual earn more for working less?
****************************
It’s simple. Right now, if you work more and earn more, you can keep it in your company and defer the taxes until you plan to work less. (unpaid vacation, mat leave etc)
If you can’t do that anymore then you start to think “If I earn 1 more dollar I’ll have to give $0.53 of it away… maybe I’ll just call it a day then”

#224 Karma on 09.05.17 at 2:05 am

#136 InvestorsFriend on 09.04.17 at 8:24 pm
“Strong support for the improvements to tax fairness is evident in the comments.

The policy changes are in the right direction and are popular with most voters.

Mark has explained it well at 126

People were turning what is basically income from labor into dividend income from capital (taxed lower) and that is not really fair. Then they got into sprinkling that labour income converted to capital on dubious grounds. Abuse must be stopped.

In any case it hard to disagree with a dollar is a dollar.”

You are very wrong. The Liberals are losing support very quickly and this is putting a nail in their coffin. In the past three days, I have chatted with 10 people, from Millennials to Boomers, who have said they won’t Liberal if this goes through. Only two area medical professionals, the rest is half employees (like me) or small business owners.

The reality is small businesses, doctors included, will be forced to raise prices to offset this loss due to increased taxes. Their customers will pay for these taxes, not the small business owners. It will therefore be inflationary and hit the poorest people the hardest. Precisely the opposite of what Trudeau intends.

Furthermore, it will just encourage more tax evasion from otherwise law-biding citizens who feel they are getting cheated by the government that now takes $42.50 of every $100 earned in this country (2nd highest in the G7).

#225 Karma on 09.05.17 at 2:06 am

#208 Karma on 09.05.17 at 2:05 am

Correction from above:
“In the past three days, I have chatted with 10 people, from Millennials to Boomers, who have said they won’t vote Liberal if this goes through. Only two are medical professionals, the rest is half employees (like me) or small business owners.”

#226 Karma on 09.05.17 at 2:22 am

#163 HDJ on 09.04.17 at 9:10 pm

““…the former drama teacher now leading the nation.” Garth

In my opinion your description of Justin Trudeau is juvenile and tasteless. However, your blog is filled with put-downs directed at those who disagree with the Conservative/conservative views you express. You’re the smart guy, and those who support the Liberals or NDP are stupid. It’s becoming tiresome. Why not put a sock in it?

Is the description inaccurate? — Garth”

Don’t forget snowboard instructor too!!

#227 Karma on 09.05.17 at 2:30 am

#183 ‘when I see something, I say something’ on 09.04.17 at 10:08 pm

“These are not rental investments
It takes about a year to obtain clearances and building permits, so the new owners rent them out until they are ready to build, the probability of them being ‘amateurs’ is low. the likelihood that the purchases are made with all cash is high, why don’t you count your own money? shouldn’t take long”

Not true. My cousin got a permit to rebuild her house near Bloor and Bathurst in less than 6 months.

If they are developers, why would they pay cash and let it sit for a year only earning ~2%-3% ROE? That seems like an inefficient use of capital. I would expect developers to be smarter than that.

#228 Karma on 09.05.17 at 2:40 am

#198 M-cube on 09.04.17 at 10:36 pm
“If a doctor doesn’t like the job or the tax situation – they can all just $%# quit. There are enough highly qualified foreign training doctors already in this country that would be happy to work for half their wages. But they cannot practice in this country because the medical gangsters protect their turf from the free-market forces of supply and demand that affect most other industries.

So Garth, but no sympathy from me and I’m an independent business operator like you.”

Your opinion is duly noted. Now please pay your “fair share” of capital gains tax on your business when you sell it. I expect nothing less than 25% of the total sale price. Canada needs your money to pay the doctors more so people get some care in a timely fashion.

#229 Howard on 09.05.17 at 3:16 am

#150 Keith on 09.04.17 at 8:43 pm
@ #100 Manitoba Whale

I’ll take the Liberals any day over the tax cutting, drunken sailor spending Conservative Party of Canada. Biggest fiscal morons in Canada, Mulroney left behind a $45 billion deficit in 1995, Liberals courageously cut spending and raised taxes to turn us into the envy of the world with consistent surpluses.

Harper had bad timing with the financial crisis, but ill advised tax cuts that sat half a trillion on corporate balance sheets idle years after the financial crisis had bottomed out were less than half the story. He increased the size of the federal government like crazy. Some conservative. We will be paying for many years for his fiscal irresponsibility.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/huge-growth-in-public-servants-under-tories

Whatever you do, don’t let these facts change your mind. You know better.

Remember, the 90’s Liberals increased taxes, and cut spending, the only path to fiscal sanity. Recovery was delayed, but not in the end denied as the world adjusted, economic growth improved and surpluses grew. Not easy, but something Conservatives won’t do.

“This government has a spending problem.” Nope, conservatives in Canada have a spending problem. They run the most deficits of any political party and the biggest deficits of any political party. They spend a fortune in lost revenue on tax cuts that consistently fail to pay for themselves, in a Friedman fueled fog of fiscal idiocy. Don’t vote Conservative, better to light your money on fire with a match.

——————

The blatherings of another low-information Liberal voter.

Every economist will tell you that Mulroney faced a runaway train wreck of a fiscal situation left behind by Justin’s Marxist father. Canada was actually running an operating deficit in 1984 (you probably don’t know what that is). The country was effectively bankrupt. It took a while to remedy that.

Paul Martin balanced the budget on Mulroney’s GST, raiding the EI fund, and offloading costs to the provinces. The Liberals were also to be ruling in the 1990s during a global trip economic boom. It was Mike Harris who showed courage in having to deal with Paul Martin’s newly delegated costs.

PM excrement-for-brains is well on track to accumulate more debt in 4 years than either Harper or Mulroney did in 10.

#230 Dan.t on 09.05.17 at 3:34 am

#85 Mark on 09.04.17 at 6:58 pm
Canadian non-mortgage, housing-backed loans exploding in value:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-04/canadians-are-borrowing-against-real-estate-fastest-pace-ever

Sure smells like a lot of Canadians are using their HELOCs to make ends meet. This won’t end well.

————–

Sounds about right, or maybe in BC anyway, millennials are super rich.

I bet the smart money has cashed out, or hopefully every boomer that bought a house to live in in Aldergrove or Langley 30 years ago has too, financed by cheap money and massive gov incentives so the dumb millennial or young generation could finance their retirements.

Thinking they would repeat what mom and dad did a world that is now nothing like the boomers grew up in. Buy a house, refinance cheaper every year, get a raise that matches inflation, get a job, raise a family often on 1 paycheque…

BC has become greed filled, pretentious and I find it funny how everyone has to mention their “equity” in casual conversations but if you mentioned you’ve done well in other investments (of course you couldn’t leverage that investment 95% or would have hammered RE returns) and it was like bragging or taboo.

Lets see how fun debt is now if real estate assets stop appreciating 10% year over year. Tap that equity now so you can live the good life and make sure your neighbours see all your new toys.

Maybe the liberals are learning from the voters. Canadians owe 170$ for every 1 dollar earned so why shouldn’t the liberals be able to spend and spend and borrow and borrow and then tax everything more than they do already. They have tons of equity. Tax payers.

#231 Oft deleted much maligned stock.picker on 09.05.17 at 3:52 am

Why would media show for a photo op only ? The pmo has thousands of selfies of Froot Loops on file. What we need is a hundred brave Kelowna citizens to show up and scream their displeasure at this pissant pm.

I’ve been barking for years to deaf easy that anyone with half a brain needs to get out of Canada. I’m sad to hear that do many doctors are just now getting up to speed on Trudeau.

#232 maxx on 09.05.17 at 6:05 am

#67 that guy saved those dogs! on 09.04.17 at 10:05 am

“#7 Ian on 09.03.17 at 8:26 pm

That’s superb that guy saved those dogs! Great to see.

Guy looks like the stereotypical “deplorable”, though.”

Focus on his face and expression, not his garb.
It’s those clean-cut, squeaky-clean types you can bounce a laser off of that you often need to watch.

#233 nick on 09.05.17 at 6:40 am

Instead of taking away sprinkling, they should implement family income instead of personal income. Essentially does the same thing.

Tax is already high enough. Going for more out of “fairness” may level the playing field, but does more harm than good.

#234 Wrk.dover on 09.05.17 at 7:00 am

TAXES:

everyone here thinks like a Greek.

Maybe print the blog in Greek language/alphabet?

#235 Jose on 09.05.17 at 7:18 am

Garth, FYI:

https://qz.com/1064061/house-flippers-triggered-the-us-housing-market-crash-not-poor-subprime-borrowers-a-new-study-shows/?utm_source=atlfb

Not looking good for Toronto.

#236 maxx on 09.05.17 at 7:22 am

#8 Glengarry Girl on 09.04.17 at 4:23 pm

Amen.

#237 NoName on 09.05.17 at 7:25 am

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-08-30/warren-buffett-on-investments-and-income-inequality-video

Is he Buffet getting soft as he gets older, or he knows something that we don’t. He says something has to be done, but not what and when, and names say gov. has to be do it…

Also over weekend I was watching few videos and read about guaranteed income. There is more and more talk about “short” week, and guaranteed income coming down from industry and politicial leaders.

I hope canada is not their test rabbit…

#238 NoName on 09.05.17 at 7:39 am

At least we know fish is happy…

My friend worked for water treatment plant, and she told me that by chemical make up she could tell what day of the week sample was taken.

http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4274735

#239 Smoking Man on 09.05.17 at 8:06 am

I just can’t get this image out of my thoughts.

T2 in a jesus robe. Arms streched wide. Frothing at the mouth. Diversity and Inclusion for all.

Never in the history of Canada have we had such a divisive PM. Gender wars, race wars, and now business people and civil servants starting to despise each other.

George Soros hi fivING himself in the mirror.

#240 TurnerNation on 09.05.17 at 8:19 am

Bitcoin: I need food shelter RSP and TFSA contributions. BTC will do none of this.
Only, Cold Hard Cash.

TSX just went T+2 settlement to match most world markets. Blockchain is decade away if ever.

Gee all those Pay your Fair share drones, y’all paying taxes on you Crapto Currency gambling profits?

#241 TnT on 09.05.17 at 8:59 am

#238 Smoking Man on 09.05.17 at 8:06 am

Funny coming from the likes of you.

You are the old ignorant windbag gasping for air.

You always boasted how you “owned” your own tax slaves and how you hide your money offshore.

Disparaged trans and other minorities.

Torches and Pitch forks are always at the gate and you threw insults instead of crumbs.

Can’t wait for likes of you to be purged from the levers of power.

#242 CJBob on 09.05.17 at 9:12 am

…should the T2 tax plan be implemented…Just over 80% are planning on reducing their hours of work.
_____________________
This is your argument? If doctor’s get taxed differently they can also afford to work less hours because they have that much money? If most of us had less money we would have to get a second job.

The vast majority of Canadians can and will support T2 on this. Thanks for clarifying the choice.

#243 Grey Dog on 09.05.17 at 9:27 am

49 JWK
I was being assessed for a surgery a couple of years ago when a Dr. Was on phone looking for hours to assist my surgeon. “no” my surgeon stated, “he cannot assist me, he has very shaky hands!”

Like professional athletes, surgeons careers do have a shelf life and they NEED to make money while they are young!!!

My complaint is with government employees that are the only ones around getting amazing pensions. Paying them is where our tax dollars are going! Those folks need to acknowledge reality, they are the privileged ones, this is the situation that needs to be looked at!

#244 Grey Dog on 09.05.17 at 9:31 am

Yes, I miss Boom, He always had some daily wisdom for us, I never tired of. Always a dignified gentleman with his comments.
M64WI I believe was his signoff.

#245 Craig Tulloch on 09.05.17 at 9:39 am

Professional corporations did not exist at the time a mid-forties doctor entered medical school, nor when they graduated and set up shop in Canada. The opportunities for income splitting and tax deferral obviously did not influence the decisions of entering the profession and where to practice.

But now the threat of removing these perks is enough to cause doctors to threaten to leave the country.

Pure greed and selfishness.

Good-bye to them, then. There are many, many more willing to take their places.

#246 Ben on 09.05.17 at 9:47 am

I’m lucky enough to be a full time salaried doctor with a db pension and benefits and am incorporated for my billings in the clinic (which is paid separately). My full time salary is for things not related to patient care (academic teaching and administrative work for the health authority).

With the benefits and pension, my full time salary of 180k, paid personally, I calculated I will need to bill about 360k in the clinic to have an equivalent salary. The average family doc bills the public plan 240k in Canada. Slightly more if you include private billings for noninsured services.

A salary is the way to go and if the government wanted to ban incorporations, then we should be paid a salary with full benefits and pension.

One other thing, living in Vancouver or Toronto, and “making 180k” (whatever that means) is not the same as making 180k in a rural small town in Saskatchewan. I had 250k in debt by the time I was done medical school. Residency was 5 years for me, during which time I wasn’t able to pay down much of my debt. I was in my 30s before making a real salary. And 180k in after tax income is not much to support a family of 3 in Vancouver. I realize others have it worse but others also do not have massive student loans.

#247 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 10:13 am

#21 CentralP on 09.04.17 at 4:51 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but how would working fewer hours help? With the new tax rules would they actual earn more for working less? If not, they still have to pay for the lifestyle to which they and their families have become accustomed so I’m not sure how working less would accomplish that.
————————————-
It is the same mentality of a office worker who thinks he/she is underpaid for what they do. They simply work less (ie. slack off). Unlike the unmotivated office worker, an unmotivated doctor has a more drastic impact to society.

As for doctors having to work more “to pay for the lifestyle to which they and their families have become accustomed “, you are thinking like a poor person.

When a poor person is taxed more, they would need to pick up more hours at a side job or under the table to “pay for their lifestyle to which they and their families have become accustomed”. When a doctor is taxed more, and for argument sake, gets their take home pay brought down from $300K to $200K, they are not even close to being butt hurt as a poor person.

Why?

Because most successful people don’t blow all their money on trivial things or over leveraged homes. So pile on the hate for doctors if you want, but at least wake up to the fact that this tax measure has nothing to do with fairness. If you want fair, send a few auditors into the CNE and see how many vendors collected cash only for food are paying their fair share of taxes.

#248 Dissident on 09.05.17 at 10:19 am

RE – #25 T2 is coming for you on 09.04.17 at 5:02 pm

Whine, whine and more whining. I know a few MDs and they are all financially over extended, they couldn’t stop working or work any ‘less’ as they need to pay for all their toys
______________________________

Exactly. Last I checked, doctors are also following moisters, however they’re buying up those million dollar properties and over extending their credit, just like everyone else in Canada. Just because you’re a doctor doesn’t mean you know finance! And trust me, I knew a few.

#249 nick on 09.05.17 at 10:19 am

#241 CJBob on 09.05.17 at 9:12 am
…should the T2 tax plan be implemented…Just over 80% are planning on reducing their hours of work.
_____________________
This is your argument? If doctor’s get taxed differently they can also afford to work less hours because they have that much money? If most of us had less money we would have to get a second job.

The vast majority of Canadians can and will support T2 on this. Thanks for clarifying the choice.

______________________________________

Its simple. When you make working an additional hour at the highest tax bracket “more expensive”, people re-evaluate how they want to “spend” that hour. So, people will work less, hit a target, then call it a day. Simple labour economics (or even common sense).

Doctors work less hours. Doctors make less money. Doctors have less money to spend in the economy. Doctors scale down practice. Older doctors retire earlier, some work outside Canada. Potential doctors may choose an alternate career path. Potential job losses/reduced hours for other staff. Wait times increase (already insanely high for specialists). Service quality drops.

Everyone loses here. The extra tax that will be collected due to the change is peanuts. Im not saying things shouldnt be equal, but make the change for families who dont own corps to make it benefit everyone across the board.

You tax the things you dont want (cigarettes, sugar, etc). By taxing things that we really need (doctors), youre doing the opposite of what you want.

I agree with fairness, but this is not the way to go about it.

#250 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 10:23 am

#27 Willy H on 09.04.17 at 5:07 pm
One only needs to look at dentists, most of whom are well on their way to becoming millionaires 5 years into their practices with or without preferential tax treatment.
————————————
Jealous much? Dentists use the same tax advantages as doctors or any other small business yet you are using that example as a counter argument? These tax measures are trivial to dentists because their source of income is paid for by insurance money. If medical doctors were paid by private insurance, they’d enjoy the same situation as the dentists and who would left to hate on next?

#251 Another Deckchair on 09.05.17 at 10:30 am

@245 Ben

Thank you for your interesting posting.

I’m in IT, currently running a Corp (have to for the contracts I get) but have spent about 1/2 my career working in the Federal Government, in a number of departments.

My numbers reflect yours. Different field, different (smaller!) numbers, but the ratios are close.

Maybe, some of the bellicose on here will sit down and go through the numbers themselves, and figure out what the picture is saying.

(doubt it! It takes effort to find the real story, it’s easier to just sit back and type uninformed “opinions” !)

#252 Manitoba Whale on 09.05.17 at 10:31 am

We were running businesses in two provinces when I was 33. We had 2m in loans and I had trouble sleeping at night wondering how to pay the monthly P+I.
Enjoy being in the black now more than in the red back then. Amazing that CIBC took a chance on me.
Today I respect the banks and am losing respect for the prov and fed governments. When we had the huge debt it was a risk with the goal of being in the black within 10 years, barring more growth. Debt is necessary, but to what end?

#253 alsak on 09.05.17 at 10:36 am

I am going to a third world country for medical reason, I have been there before, there is no healthcare in Canada and Canada is way behind in medical fields, why are we paying those useless doctors that kind of salary, reduce docs salary by 50% and let good docs from other countries to immigrate, after passing a vary comprehensive exam.

#254 Another Deckchair on 09.05.17 at 10:37 am

@242 Grey Dog:

“My complaint is with government employees that are the only ones around getting amazing pensions. Paying them is where our tax dollars are going! Those folks need to acknowledge reality, they are the privileged ones, this is the situation that needs to be looked at!”

Tongue in cheek, I think the main benefit of the civil service is that they provide a stabilizing influence – no burning pitch-fork wielding massive crowds at the gates of parliament when masses of people are paid by those behind the gates!

Hope everyone has a good day today.

#255 Ian on 09.05.17 at 10:45 am

#32 Flop

What is a GAP code? I googled and all I find is the retail store.

#256 Another Albertan on 09.05.17 at 11:00 am

I frequently use the phrase “Never bring a scalpel to a chainsaw fight” to demonstrate how precision is largely irrelevant in a discussion with those who employ brute force.

Never has it been more apropos.

Everyone else’s mileage may vary.

#257 alsak on 09.05.17 at 11:02 am

what is the role of a doctor, when i visit my family doctor I often advice her on what to prescribe since i have done my research, this is the age of internet, a GP knowledge is
quite limited, we are paying for Mercedes car and we are getting Chevy

#258 Julian on 09.05.17 at 11:03 am

To ‘T’, #202 and #207

“A marriage is an equal partnership. This equal partnership invests in a business.”

“Spouses should be treated equally in all business ventures.”

While there may be merit to what you have said, the Canadian tax system is not based on the premise, or we would for example have across-the-board income splitting measures. I think Mark, InvestorsFriend and others have hit the nail on the hit with their comments. I support measures that try to simplify the tax system, limit exemptions and special carveouts and frankly, reduce the need for all sorts of special accounting tactics. If it means that doctors and other self-employed people need to be compensated differently, then market forces under revised taxation rules should help address that.

#259 rainclouds on 09.05.17 at 11:06 am

“This has long been the problem of Imperial Finance: Very few of its officials have ever worked in the real world.”

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/09/05/trudeaus-going-to-pay-a-heavy-price-for-tax-reform/

#260 Headhunter on 09.05.17 at 11:07 am

I totally agree with the poster calling out the trolls… nobody said I want to pay more taxes… ever.

What the envious haters dont understand is 9/10 business fail in the 1st year. So the remaining 10% are most likely very clever hard working and smart individuals… they aint goin to pay shit.. they will find away around it of just wait for a new gov’t.

aint rocket science.

#261 The Great Gazoo on 09.05.17 at 11:34 am

Bill Morneau decided he wanted to weigh into the discussion, see letter this morning in the G&M.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/tax-changes-are-about-levelling-the-playing-field/article36161429/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

Tax changes are about levelling the playing field

Bill Morneau is Canada’s Minister of Finance.

I know first-hand that running a business is hard work. It involves taking risks, suffering setbacks and often a great deal of sacrifice.

As Canada’s Finance Minister, I am committed to ensuring that this hard work is rewarded, so that businesses small and large are able to invest, grow and create jobs.

The good news is businesses are doing just that. In the past year, we have seen the fastest real GDP growth in more than a decade. Second quarter results at 4.5-per-cent growth and more than 350,000 new full-time jobs created over the past year mean our economy is growing faster than any Group of Seven country.

But economic growth alone is not good enough.

That is why, as its first order of business, our government introduced a middle-class tax cut that is benefiting nearly nine million Canadians – and, yes, to finance it, we raised taxes on the top 1 per cent. It is also why we brought in the Canada Child Benefit, which puts more money in the pockets of nine out of 10 families, helping lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty – leading to a 40-per-cent reduction in child poverty by the end of this calendar year.

But the job is not done.

Over the past 15 years, we have seen big changes in our economy. The number of Canadian-controlled private corporations (CCPCs) has increased by 50 per cent and makes up a much bigger part of our economy than they did in the early 2000s. For professionals, the number of corporations has tripled over that same period.

While we know most businesses are investing and creating jobs, we also know that corporate structures are being used to reduce personal taxes. That leaves us with a challenge that is unsustainable. As more and more people set up corporations, there is a growing number of individuals who have access to tax advantages not available to other hard-working Canadians. This means that some of the highest-income earners are effectively being taxed at a much lower rate than everyone else. It is legal, but as a former business owner and high-income earner myself, I do not think it is right.

The average income in Canada is estimated to be about $49,000 this year. An incorporated professional earning $300,000 with a spouse and two adult children can save about $48,000 in taxes by using just one of these loopholes. What that means is an incorporated professional could be taxed at a lower rate than a salaried nurse practitioner or police officer making much less a year.

Earlier this summer, we launched a consultation on proposals to address this problem. As part of this effort, I am visiting small business owners and professionals across the country, looking to hear their ideas, concerns and to answer their questions.

Most middle-class Canadians and small businesses will be unaffected by these changes. According to the Coalition for Small Business Tax Fairness, 66 per cent of small businesses earn less than $73,000 a year.

For passive investment income to provide an advantage over and above what is available to every Canadian through RRSPs and TFSAs, a business owner needs to earn more than $150,000.

That is because the more you earn, the more you stand to benefit from these tax-planning strategies. No wonder some estimate that two thirds of the wealthiest 0.01 per cent own a CCPC.

For those business owners and professionals who have saved and planned for their retirement under the existing rules, I want to be clear: We have no intention of going back in time. Our intent is that changes will apply only on a go-forward basis and neither existing savings, nor investment income from those savings, will be touched.

Farm owners will continue to receive a lifetime capital gains exemption of up to $1-million for farm property, facilitating the transfer of their business to the next generation.

We will continue to protect a business’ ability to compete, invest, grow and create jobs. Money that stays in the business will continue to take advantage of the lowest small-business rate in the G7,and some of the most competitive corporate tax rates in the world – more than 12 points lower than the United States.

At the heart of these proposals is our promise to the middle class, and a belief that every Canadian should feel confident that they have the same opportunity to succeed and benefit from a growing economy. That confidence starts with knowing everyone is treated fairly.

I invite all Canadians to find out more, and to make their voices heard, by engaging with me on Twitter (@Bill_Morneau), on Facebook or by writing to the Department of Finance at [email protected]

#262 HaHaHa on 09.05.17 at 11:40 am

You see Garth most commenters on here endorsing these tax changes has proven my point. Canadians are stupid and lazy. Its that simple. Always worried about what the other guy has and why they can’t have it. They voted for a clown to lead that has never had a real job and probably never had a mortgage. Yes Canadians you ARE dumb. Spend too much time on Trump as if Americans give a hoot about us. Canadians get over yourselves.

#263 Old Ron the Realtor on 09.05.17 at 11:45 am

Finding support to weep real tears for the top 5% is going to be a tough get.

Canada’s strength comes from its pluralistic and egalitarian systems. If our government is annoying the crazy fringe on the left or the crazy fringe on the right, it has probably got it correct. Governing from the centre- left or centre-right is not a bad thing for POGG. (Peace Order and Good Government)

As for the Doctors who threaten to practice in America, please leave. Curiously both my dentist and my GP are American Ex-Pats. A surprising number of Canadian GP’s who left for the states are clamouring to return to our frozen shores.

To the gentleman who laments just “getting by” on $180,000 net each year……give me a break. You are probably part of the same crowd who wants to prevent a single mom working at Walmart from making $15/Hr (gross) for the privilege of pushing several tons of groceries through her till on a single shift.

#264 Ezzy on 09.05.17 at 12:01 pm

LOL and to think that the Liberals will win a second term. We’re in for a long, rough ride :)

#265 Darryl on 09.05.17 at 12:09 pm

#195 Felix on 09.04.17 at 10:27 pm
Not surprisingly, to see in today’s photo, clear evidence of a dog trying to suffocate and murder a human.
Get a cat instead. Smarter. Nicer. Better looking.
Or wait for a mutt to off you in your sleep :(
——————————————————————-
LOL
That was good Felix ,Thanks fro the laugh.

#266 Fake News Again on 09.05.17 at 12:11 pm

Anesthesiologists are “Govt Employees” in Canada, have the cushiest gig in healthcare and are paid 450,000 dollars a year to do it…..

Really? We are supposed to feel sorry for them? REALLY?

#267 Schooled doctors on 09.05.17 at 12:16 pm

#148 Smoking Man on 09.04.17 at 8:41 pm
Nothing is going to happen. This Canada. We are being taken over by communistic globalists that will drain everyone’s wealth at the end of the road trip.
Better to drain your own wealth on a savage road trip is my line of thinking. Can’t wait to get my first disability check. Will I ever go back to IT consulting in Canada. Not a chance. Will I ever declare my off shore fx gains. Not a chance.
On my way Florida chasing Irma, going to get close but not that close. stopped in some hick town in NC for the night. It’s wine time.
Dr’s your screwed because you can’t think outside the box. Schooling is all I’m saying.
…………………………………………………………………….
Yes that schooling thing is really a waste of time for Doctors. Smoking Man you are 100% correct. They can not think out side the box.
For example when cutting a cancerous growth out of someone nose “should they just surgically remove the entire cancerous area based on their schooling ?” or “should they just google it during the first cut ?” or “perhaps go to the nearest Home Depot and get a box cutter and some duct tape ?”
I would prefer the former verses the latter, what do you say oh unschooled patient ?
Man you are so vacuous Smoky.

#268 Alex N Calgary on 09.05.17 at 12:30 pm

I don’t understand the itenerary of the PM? its like apocolypse in interior BC with the forest fires. 4 months of smoke here in Calgary, choking hot, he should be out there visiting. The pictures of how bad the fires and smoke are from the mountain hes hiking up, should be pretty terrible.

#269 Renter's Revenge! on 09.05.17 at 12:38 pm

Opinion piece by Morneau published in the G&M this morning, for what it’s worth:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/tax-changes-are-about-levelling-the-playing-field/article36161429/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

Interesting that, “Over the past 15 years, we have seen big changes in our economy. The number of Canadian-controlled private corporations (CCPCs) has increased by 50 per cent and makes up a much bigger part of our economy than they did in the early 2000s. For professionals, the number of corporations has tripled over that same period.”

It’s always good to hear both sides of an argument.

The comment section for the article sounds exactly like this one, so don’t bother (or rip him a new one over there as well for all I care).

My thoughts on the matter:

-The only problem with taxing things we don’t want (smoking, etc.) is that eventually people stop doing them. Then the only things left to tax are the ones we do want.

-Governments still need to spend responsibly, but if they cut back it will hurt the economy (according to Economystics).

-Enforcing compliance with the tax system seems to be the biggest problem the CRA has. The more people find clever ways to avoid taxes, the greater the burden placed on the sheeple (where tax is automatically deducted from source, for example).

#270 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 12:45 pm

#256 alsak on 09.05.17 at 11:02 am
what is the role of a doctor, when i visit my family doctor I often advice her on what to prescribe since i have done my research, this is the age of internet, a GP knowledge is
quite limited, we are paying for Mercedes car and we are getting Chevy
—————————–
While you were surfing the internet on how to self medicate yourself, did you discover that you are also an idiot? Belittling people clearly more educated than you (which is probably a lot) shows your intelligence. With your logic, what profession would be worth your money since almost everything on the internet?

#271 Crocodile tears on 09.05.17 at 12:52 pm

I don’t get it… am I supposed to feel sorry for the doc?

You know, it’s funny… when undergrads apply to med school, and they have their interviews, not one of them mention moving to the States for more money/less tax/whatever. Then when they get accepted, and know that they have secured one of the coveted spot in the med student quota, they act like they won the lottery. I know a few kids like that.

Fast forward maybe a decade, whatever, they graduate and instantly start whining. As if they didn’t know how much school costs, how much study is involved, how it eats up all your days and you feel deprived of fun, etc etc.

I know you think you have a swanky demographic in your readership, Garth, but if you’re trying to play the world’s smallest violin for doctors, you might be just a tad misjudging. They’re not hard done by. YOU’re not hard done by (cue recent rants about having your extra “just to avoid the commute” condo taxed).

Sometimes you gotta stop and practice gratitude and humility.

It’s a curse for some people, that no matter how much they have, they can never have *enough*.

#272 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 12:56 pm

#262 Old Ron the Realtor on 09.05.17 at 11:45 am
To the gentleman who laments just “getting by” on $180,000 net each year……give me a break. You are probably part of the same crowd who wants to prevent a single mom working at Walmart from making $15/Hr (gross) for the privilege of pushing several tons of groceries through her till on a single shift.
—————————-
Doctors:
6-8 years of post secondary schooling. Take on huge debt at beginning of career. provides valuable service to society. 6 figure income.

Realtors: Even the “honest” ones
High school educated. Take on cost of 6 week real estate course at beginning of career. provides zero value add society. 6 figure income.

#273 dontcallmeshirley on 09.05.17 at 1:00 pm

Doctors should be exempt from tax. Fees paid to family doctors should be doubled.

Happy now?

#274 Iron Mike on 09.05.17 at 1:02 pm

In-depth spreadsheets on self-employment prepared by a university prof with a defined-benefit pension and tenure using his work resources and email. Leadership by example. — Garth
——————————
Other than the intellectually lazy ad hominem attack, do you have anything that would rebut the merits of his analysis Garth?

#275 Victor V on 09.05.17 at 1:08 pm

A rate hike is coming — what’s unclear is how the economy will react

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/rate-hike-imminent-as-poloz-takes-hawkish-turn-canada-eco-watch

No one doubts the Bank of Canada will raise interest rates again soon. The country’s economy has turned out to be much stronger than anyone was predicting only a few months ago, giving policy makers scope to bring rates back up to more normal levels.

The only debate is whether Governor Stephen Poloz will move at Wednesday’s meeting or wait until October, and whether current projections for as many as three more rate increases by the end of 2018 are too conservative.

Economists are primarily in the wait-a-month camp — only five of 26 surveyed by Bloomberg News expect the central bank to hike its 0.75 per cent benchmark rate this week.

Investors are hedging, with traders assigning a 57 per cent chance of an increase.

The main benefit of waiting until the October decision, which coincides with new quarterly forecasts and a press conference, is that it gives Poloz time to provide more direction to investors about how he sees the data, presumably to limit unnecessary market volatility. At Wednesday’s decision, all investors get is a press release of about 300 words.

#276 Victor V on 09.05.17 at 1:09 pm

Seniors in Canada are racking up debt faster than the rest of the population

http://business.financialpost.com/business/seniors-in-canada-are-racking-up-debt-faster-than-the-rest-of-the-population

No age segment is ramping up debt faster than the senior population, according to a new survey out Tuesday.

The survey from Atlanta-based debt rating agency Equifax Inc. found the average debt, not including mortgages, of Canadians 65 and over was $15,651 in the second quarter of 2017, still low compared to the Canadian average of $22,595. But senior debt grew by 4.3 per cent over the past year, outpacing every other segment of the population over 18.

#277 Victor V on 09.05.17 at 1:17 pm

Vancouver home sales surge 22.3% in August

http://www.bnn.ca/vancouver-home-sales-surge-22-3-in-august-1.847587

#278 HaHaHa on 09.05.17 at 1:18 pm

#270 Croc proves my point. Worried about what the other guy has. Good luck in life.

#279 nick on 09.05.17 at 1:32 pm

Where is the TREB report?

#280 Reality 1 on 09.05.17 at 1:37 pm

to # 182 Sue T2 ? re: comment to Turner Nation # 106

Give your head a shake.

Yeah, I want to exchange sovereign issued currency for;

1) a commoditized fabrication that can essentially be created by anyone with the computer capacity in their basement, and;

2) that trades on UNREGULATED markets, and;

3) that can be manipulated by someone with an algorithm and 20 million bucks. (Hint there are thousands of people savvy and wealthy enough to do this), and;

4) whose species (Litecoin, hundreds others) multiply without restriction essentially every week, and;

5) is backed by nothing – no assets, collateral or taxing power , and;

6) that Paris Hilton is currently shilling for an IPO (ICO) for one such “coin”

See Howard Marks’ (billionaire hedge fund manager with a 40 year track record)take on the matter – google his comments.

Good luck with that.

Watch what happens.

My humble prediction is that every major government will outlaw / restrict crypto “currencies” once enough fools have bought into it to teach them a big lesson on what a currency really is.

Yeah, right – where do I sign up ?

Turner Nation ain’t butthurt – he’s got a brain !

#281 Stan Broock on 09.05.17 at 1:41 pm

Some suggestion to the fairness moron:

1. How about taxing all bloated public pensions at the marginal tax rate at the source?
2. How about taxing all benefits for full time employees at the marginal tax rate at the source?
3. How about taxing capital gains on any residences, including primary?
4. How about increasing stock option taxes for his buddies on Bay Street?

Is that not fair Mr. Moron?
In absence of obvious reply smart people will choose not to pay taxes to this corrupt and incompetent government by either:
– shrinking Business activities
or
– moving their Business elsewhere.

Being screwed by these 2 morons – the wild Bill and J2 adds insult to injury.

#282 Freud on 09.05.17 at 1:44 pm

Tales of the the unconscious mind.
caveat emptor best describes the 3 lbs of grey matter held between the ears of liberal voters. Displacement, repression and denial are evident and sadly such brains lack ‘eros’, better known as the life instinct. Laymen call this a polluted brain. our research has proved evident. raise a glass. salute.

#283 Dups on 09.05.17 at 1:50 pm

What we call 1%-ers in Canada are pretty pathetic. 245K and over should not be called 1%. We need more resolution in the measurement scale. So what do you call the 1 mil and up? Sad…

#284 alsak on 09.05.17 at 1:53 pm

#269
While you were surfing the internet on how to self medicate yourself, did you discover that you are also an idiot? Belittling people clearly more educated than you (which is probably a lot) shows your intelligence. With your logic, what profession would be worth your money since almost everything on the internet?
—————————————————————-

please stop belittling people you don’t know, I have lived and worked in 30+ countries and I know 6 Major languages but that may not make any more intelligent than average Joe, when I talk about the Docs here in Canada, I compare, I find that the system of healthcare must be overhauled, waiting 6 months for specialist, where most countries you can see one in 2 hours

#285 Ian on 09.05.17 at 1:54 pm

Here’s a thought…if the government is REALLY concerned about the variance in tax burden between T4 paying people and what’s going on in corporations…why don’t they introduce a FLAT INCOME TAX at a MUCH LOWER LEVEL, and stop growing government irresponsibly and running ridiculous deficits so they wouldn’t constantly need to grab more of our money?

#286 Ponzius Pilatus on 09.05.17 at 1:56 pm

3) For those pointing out European doctors make less. It is true but they also work about half the hours and are public servants with all the perks. That would cost a fortune here to emulate. Be careful what you wish for.
——————_-
misinformed much?
In Germany and Austria, Doctor’s education is free, therefore no massive student debt.
Also, Civil Law makes it much harder to sue Doctors, hence almost no liability insurance.
BTW, cost of medication is much lower.
And no wait list.
Things we only can dream of.

#287 IHCTD9 on 09.05.17 at 2:13 pm

It is nice to see some folks starting to see Canadians for what they really seem to be: boneheads.

Canadians have been proving my hypothesis correct time, and time again. The country, lead by Ontario is breaking international records for undefiled idiocy on any front you care to name. Stupid is piled to the moon in the Great White North. Wish I knew what happened.

Remember: those two dunce cap wearing stooges in Ottawa represent the will of the majority of voting Canadians. Are we stupid? Yep. Maybe some of the dumbest folks on the planet.

T2 and Co will find out soon, that after all the popularity erosion and boat rocking is done, revenues from this “tax fairness” plan will be a pittance, and may even dwindle into the negative after a few years. Nothing like angering a collection of honey badgers to drive revenues through the floor.

You can bet however, that they will not be looking for efficiencies in government, eliminating waste, cutting excessive compensations, moderating unrealistic pension plans, or anything that would have them looking in the mirror. This is because these are the kinds of politicians Canadians want running the show. Anyone promising to bring public spending in line would be tarred and feathered by the media and voted out of existence by Canadians themselves.

I hope gray matter will once again emerge in the heads of Canadians. Until then, I’ll be helping it along by giving as little tax revenue as possible to government, and by voting for douchebags like Trudeau and Wynne.

Severe financial pain needs to come to many middle class Canadian homes. Prepare your household, vote swan dive, and cut their funding at every opportunity.

#288 Piet on 09.05.17 at 2:13 pm

Both daughters are doing medical specialist residencies in two Canadian cities. Along with their various Canadian professional exams they are writing all the equivalent US exams to ensure that they can also work down south. Given what Trudeau is doing, the US option is looking ever more likely. A compromise over location is easy to make if the pay is higher and the taxes are less. The brain drain continues.

#289 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 2:14 pm

#118 OttawaMike on 09.04.17 at 7:50 pm
Here are some spread sheets that take into account the proposed changes and the difference after maxing out TFSA’s and RRSP’s.

Works out to about 5% in extra corporate taxes after 10 years:

https://twitter.com/kevinmilligan/status/904791930176847872
——————————–
Spreadsheet’s math seems right assuming $100. UBC prof is only comparing to TFSA and not RRSP. TFSA is limited to $52K at this point in time which isn’t an apples to apples comparison since a CCPC can easily save more in one good season which makes his conclusion of only a 5% difference flawed. I think his point is that tax should be the same inside and outside of a corporation and he uses a very specific scenario (deliberately?) to prove that taxes would the same and that the difference is only around 5% under the next legislation.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong?

#290 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 2:17 pm

#118 OttawaMike on 09.04.17 at 7:50 pm
Here are some spread sheets that take into account the proposed changes and the difference after maxing out TFSA’s and RRSP’s.
————————-
I also don’t see where the professor is making the case of “maxing out TFSA’s and RRSP’s” would be only yield a 5% difference unless you are misreading his analysis.

#291 Tbone on 09.05.17 at 2:20 pm

#195 Felix

Be careful with your feline friends.
I know someone that works in a funeral home.
When a cat lover dies and is not found for several days the cats will eat
The ears , nose , face , etc . Closed casket for sure.
Think I would chose a dog over a cat if I lived alone .
But that’s just me .

#292 NoName on 09.05.17 at 2:25 pm

I was listening podcast and someone sad in Huston 40000 houses is lost to hurricane, and only 16% of those have flood ins. Couple of nights ago o sow chart that shows flood insurance per house in that area I was surprised how low numbers are. There is a talk that this hurricane will”cost” more than huricanes Kathrine and Sandy.

#293 Do The Math on 09.05.17 at 2:50 pm

The Liberals have made up their minds to change the income tax laws and will not be dissuaded. As usual with their plans will get a fraction of the revenue they expect.

If fairness is the goal then there should be income splitting for all couples. Adult children should be treated as adults and pay income tax the same as any other employee.

Look at your own situation and if it make sense to work fewer hours do it. Want to retire or leave the country do it. The most successful self employed are work alcoholics and prefer working to doing anything else so not much will change there.

Some doctors are in the profession because they want to care for people and will continue to do so.

#294 Leo Trollstoy on 09.05.17 at 2:52 pm

Mark is the smartest unemployed, economics, banking and entrepreneurship specialist

#295 AGuyInVancouver on 09.05.17 at 3:16 pm

I a small businessman cannot run a successful business without sprinkling income and dividends amongst family members not involved in the business, perhaps he’s not that successful after all.

#296 IHCTD9 on 09.05.17 at 3:25 pm

#259 Headhunter on 09.05.17 at 11:07 am
I totally agree with the poster calling out the trolls… nobody said I want to pay more taxes… ever.

What the envious haters dont understand is 9/10 business fail in the 1st year. So the remaining 10% are most likely very clever hard working and smart individuals… they aint goin to pay shit.. they will find away around it of just wait for a new gov’t.

aint rocket science.
__________

Yep, a concept to which no brokeass government will ever admit hearing. It’s like realizing you’re screwed only AFTER running off the cliff like Wile E. Coyote. Put the taxes up… nothing. Put the taxes up again… nothing.

Uh oh…

I like pushing the momentum on this. Somewhere in our just learned to wipe Pablum packing androgynous Caucus, someone just read about the Laffer Curve and had an epiphany regarding their financial woes.

Surely concrete sales are still doing well in Ottawa, and Canadians are still dumb as dirt, I’m sure all will end well.

#297 Glengarry Girl on 09.05.17 at 3:35 pm

286 Piet

The grass is not always greener on the other side, or down South. We packed up the Family and moved to the US 8 years ago for my husbands career. Prior to that we took advantage of Canada’s Tax laws while running a small business for 12 years. During that time, we were in a 20% tax bracket when all was said and done. The US and Canada both have their pros and cons, but I can tell you from personal experience that culturally we are VERY different. I don’t fit in and feel like an outsider, while living in the US we are treated as Immigrants. Everyone should be well aware by now how the Americans feel about Immigrants. All three of my daughters returned to Canada at age 17 to pursue education at a fraction of the costs. All have promising job prospects and a much higher standard of lifestyle than their peers in the US. Our out of pocket health care costs, insurance premiums and deductibles are one of our biggest expenses. When I visit Canada ALL of my Family and Friends seem to be enjoying a much higher standard of living than what I see in the US. Your daughters should consider more than their taxation when deciding where they would like to live, work and where to raise their Family.

#298 jess on 09.05.17 at 3:38 pm

Well no wants this happening in canada

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, July 13, 2017
National Health Care Fraud Takedown Results in Charges Against Over 412 Individuals Responsible for $1.3 Billion in Fraud Losses
Largest Health Care Fraud Enforcement Action in Department of Justice History

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/national-health-care-fraud-takedown-results-charges-against-over-412-individuals-responsible

paying for placebo’s

A misuse of scarce funds’: NHS to end prescription of homeopathic …
https://www.theguardian.com › Lifestyle › Homeopathy
Jul 21, 2017 – Homeopathic remedies will no longer be available on prescription on the NHS according to newly-announced plans. The move comes as part ..

When Evidence Says No, but Doctors Say Yes

Long after research contradicts common medical practices, patients continue to demand them and physicians continue to deliver. The result is an epidemic of unnecessary and unhelpful treatments.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/02/when-evidence-says-no-but-doctors-say-yes/517368/

#299 Jon on 09.05.17 at 3:44 pm

I’m not in favor of proposed changes. It impacts me.

However, I’d be a little more accepting if I were given an opportunity as small biz owner to invest in the same defined benefits pensio plan that Federal employees and MP’s have.

Those pensions are worth millions. Defined benefit pensions are largely a thing of the past in the private sector yet Canadian government employees (Federal, provincial and municipal) enjoy “lotto” pensions just for getting a job with the government.

I’d love for my company to have the opportunity to somehow set up a pension fund that’s as secure and lucrative as the one government employees receive.

Why doesn’t T2 expand the option of the generous government pension to every working person. I know government employees contribute to it, but I’d be more than happy to contribute to gain the level of benefits that I’d enjoy securely for the rest of my life.

I highly doubt that employee contributions actually finance the pension plan itself. Perhaps it did when life expectancy was 68, but now that it’s well over 80, there’s no way contributing for 30 years finances 25 to 30 years of benefits. This is why defined benefits pensions are a thing of the past in the private sector.

I don’t begrudge government employees their lottery upon retirement. However, I do take issue when terms like “fairness” and “equality” are bandied about by the same government that enjoys a tax-payer financed lottery win at age 65.

#300 Newcomer on 09.05.17 at 4:03 pm

Half of this depate would be over if Canada allowed people to file joint returns like they do in the States. The economic unit in our society is the household, not the individual, and the practice of taxing individuals is a hang-over from the days when only men worked and everyone else in the household was a dependant. It’s time we dragged our tax policy into the modern world.

#301 KM on 09.05.17 at 4:07 pm

For all of those “calling the MD’s bluff” and urging them to quit and be replaced by inadequately trained foreign grads, continue to dream on.

I have talked to dozens of docs, exactly zero plan to quit, they will simply cut back… which means there will be no hungry, debt-ridden youngster being hired in his stead. The only people that will suffer are the patients, be careful who you vote for.

#302 IHCTD9 on 09.05.17 at 4:09 pm

#295 Glengarry Girl on 09.05.17 at 3:35 pm
_____________________________________

I know several Canadians who moved to the US (and Dubai) and are living like Ballers. More money and less taxes BY FAR. Better climates, health insurance is paid by employers, they love it.

#303 jess on 09.05.17 at 4:15 pm

Trump Administration Ends DACA Program
9/5/2017 12:11PM
Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Tuesday that the Trump administration is ending a five-year-old program that protects undocumented immigrants who entered the U.S. as children from ​deportation.​ Photo: Getty

#304 BC_Doc on 09.05.17 at 4:18 pm

#212 James MF on 09.05.17 at 12:26 am
If doctors decide to retire or “leave” because they think a better deal may be found elsewhere then foreign-trained doctors will replace them and it will be at lower cost. Canada’s neoliberal economy is structured this way. To say that only some professions, not all, should be subject to market forces seems a contrary way of organizing things.
*******************************************

Perhaps you can be one of the first patients to get one of those “lower cost foreign trained doctors.” Maybe T2 can import one in from Cuba for you.

#305 James on 09.05.17 at 4:22 pm

Dam how many hurricanes can they handle is the south?
This is going to cost billions. We had booked a trip to Orlando and Daytona Beach with family in two weeks. Hope it doesn’t get wiped out. Man I feel bad for those people I just hope Texas doesn’t get a second whacking. They have had enough. Hum and Trump wants to whack our softwood. Good luck when you need it dumbo! Your job is to make sure those people who loose their homes have shelter.

http://abc7ny.com/weather/potentially-catastrophic-irma-takes-aim-at-caribbean-/2377381/

#306 Howard on 09.05.17 at 4:27 pm

#265 Fake News Again on 09.05.17 at 12:11 pm
Anesthesiologists are “Govt Employees” in Canada, have the cushiest gig in healthcare and are paid 450,000 dollars a year to do it…..

Really? We are supposed to feel sorry for them? REALLY?

———————————

More than any other doctor, except some types of surgeon, anaesthesiologists most directly hold patients’ lives in their hands.

450,000? Fair compensation for such a stressful responsibility. Better spent than the 80,000+ we pay to garbage men every year.

#307 Tazi Bnu on 09.05.17 at 4:37 pm

In 2011 there were about 1.1 mil small businesses. (Now estimates are at 1.8 mil)
In 2005, 41 per cent of employed Canadians worked for businesses with fewer than 20 employees.
In 2010, 2.7 million Canadians were self-employed.
In 2005, small businesses accounted for 42 per cent of the country’s private sector GDP.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/10-surprising-stats-about-small-business-in-canada-1.1083238

It’s old data, but I think the point is still the same. The proposed tax changes hit more than just doctors, it’s all small businesses. Trudeau and Morneau are about to do some real damage to the Canadian economy in the interest of “fairness.” That’s also a lot of Canadians that will be motivated to vote and donate against them in the next election.

#308 Freedom First on 09.05.17 at 4:42 pm

#220 Pete from St. Cesaire

Ditto. I agree.
……………………………………………………

However, it’s been a number of years now I try to keep a lower profile.

#309 MF on 09.05.17 at 4:42 pm

IH,

Dubai? A better climate? Lol

Aside from being in the desert, Dubai is pretty much one of the last places on earth I would move to if I were wealthy.

I agree with you on some parts of the United States, but the other poster was correct. Some people are in for a real culture shock if they move to the US.

MF

#310 MF on 09.05.17 at 4:47 pm

Howard,

Really? What would happen if the garbage was not picked up for a few days? What about weeks? Months?

What an absolute joke comment. Unbelievable.

They should be paid 100k/year.

MF

#311 Stan Broock on 09.05.17 at 4:48 pm

A policy of:

1. In-debt-ing populace to record levels to foreign capital by providing government subsidies and incentives
2. Suppressing any productive alternative to the big corporations i.e the elite by pseudo-liebarals trust-fund politicians.
3. Divide and conquer, by setting different layers of the middle class on a crash course due to ‘fairness’.

will not work.

Boycott the real rich, the elite.
Refuse to provide them with services.
Set a national small Businesses boycott day, on which you do not work/serve them.
sign a petition for firing Bill for conflict of interest, he is promoting policies that benefit the big consulting business, i.e. his firm.

Fire the idiot J2.

Or suffer the consequences.

#312 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 4:51 pm

please stop belittling people you don’t know, I have lived and worked in 30+ countries and I know 6 Major languages but that may not make any more intelligent than average Joe, when I talk about the Docs here in Canada, I compare, I find that the system of healthcare must be overhauled, waiting 6 months for specialist, where most countries you can see one in 2 hours
———————-
Congrats on being able to speak 6 different languages. A skill I don’t have. If you got paid six figures to be a translator while traveling for the UN, I would not be hating on you for not paying your “fair” share or would advocate for the government to increase taxes on world income.

But my point still hold true about trivializing education that doctors or any other profession that requires it and comparing it to what you can find on the internet. As for the state of our health care system, I fully agree it needs an overhaul but that is the result of many different government mismanagement and not the doctors.

#313 Stan Broock on 09.05.17 at 4:52 pm

#307 MF on 09.05.17 at 4:42 pm

Ever been to Dubai?
No? I don’t think so.

Despite the hot summer days, pretty good weather actually.

One that a brain frozen idiot has to actually visit in the cool months in order to appreciate.

It is stunning that the most loyal supporters to the lie-berals idiocies ate actually people who never traveled, never worked abroad and are spoon-fed the idiocies about the Canadian advantage/supremacy.

#314 CentralP on 09.05.17 at 4:53 pm

#246 n1tro on 09.05.17 at 10:13 am

So pile on the hate for doctors if you want, but at least wake up to the fact that this tax measure has nothing to do with fairness.

Why so rude? I said nothing about fairness and never said that I was in favour of the changes.

I only said that I doubted many would follow through on their threat. I made a statement about human nature. Way to twist my words and make assumptions.

#315 Gravy Train on 09.05.17 at 4:54 pm

“Th[e] bulletin [in the link below and released May 31, 2000] explains the [current] meaning of a Canadian-controlled private corporation (CCPC) and the requirements that must be met for a corporation to be a CCPC. The appendix to this bulletin provides examples of situations which illustrate whether corporations meet the requirements to be considered a CCPC. A CCPC is a special type of private corporation that is also a Canadian corporation. In order to qualify as a CCPC it must not be controlled, directly or indirectly in any manner whatever, by public corporations, non-residents or a combination of the two.

“In many respects, it is advantageous for a corporation and its shareholders that the corporation qualify as a CCPC. Some of these advantages, which are primarily designed to assist small businesses, include:
• access to the small business deduction;
• an additional month to pay the balance of taxes payable under Parts I, I.3, VI and VI.1 for the year;
• enhanced investment tax credits, which may be fully refundable, for their qualified expenditures on scientific research and experimental development;
• shareholder entitlement to the capital gains exemption on the disposition of qualified small business corporation shares; and
• deferral of an employee’s taxable benefit arising from the exercise of stock options granted by a CCPC….”
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/it458r2-archived-canadian-controlled-private-corporation/archived-canadian-controlled-private-corporation.html#P100_16266

There’s currently no updated Income Tax Folio for Interpretation Bulletin IT-458R2 released May 31, 2000 (see the attached IT bulletin-folio table of concordance):
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/technical-information/income-tax/table-concordance-bulletin-folio.html

#316 nick on 09.05.17 at 5:06 pm

#308 MF on 09.05.17 at 4:47 pm

Howard,

Really? What would happen if the garbage was not picked up for a few days? What about weeks? Months?

They should be paid 100k/year.

__________________________

LOL. What a joke argument. Look, i think garbage men deserve their pay, but your “argument” is worse than the garbage they pick up.

#317 MF on 09.05.17 at 5:07 pm

Stan Brooke

Buddy I stop responding to your posts after you called me an idiot one day.

Judging by your online persona here (we would probably get along in real life) you are simply cranky and arrogant.

MF

#318 jim on 09.05.17 at 5:11 pm

“Are docs overpaid? Maybe. But to become one takes smarts, time and massive schooling. ”

This is the Marxist labour theory of value.

One’s value does not depend on the amount of study. It takes years to get a PhD in feminist poetry, for instance.

Value is determined by what the market is willing to pay.

And yes, physician compensation is out of control in most provinces. 8% per year is not uncommon, way higher than inflation.

However, causing doctors to move is not going to remedy that. This

#319 MF on 09.05.17 at 5:14 pm

Stan Brooke,

And who said I support the Libs?

MF

#320 Stan Broock on 09.05.17 at 5:19 pm

#313 Gravy Train on 09.05.17 at 4:54 pm

Yep, private corporations where set with specific intend and now after people heavily invested in that, including dependency on their retirement, this suddenly changes due to the caprice of 2 elitist trust-fund guys who never worked in their life/inherited their money?

They are tearing the fabric of the society by proving that governments can not be trusted and by selling the liberal ideas.

So glad I started my plan on collapsing all my RRSP savings/investments in Canada.

Would you like to pass that/your lifetime savings to the 2 idiots/tax grabbers in (financial) power?

————————
Canadian health care system sucks. No access to specialist when you most need it. Ever had diabetes or cancer? Canata is the worse place to be if ill.

But, hey, enjoy it as it will get worse.

Don’t forget to scream at your doctors how they are obligated to serve you at not pay. See how it works.

#321 AGuyInVancouver on 09.05.17 at 5:27 pm

#302 BC_Doc on 09.05.17 at 4:18 pm
Perhaps you can be one of the first patients to get one of those “lower cost foreign trained doctors.” Maybe T2 can import one in from Cuba for you.
_ _ _
Or perhaps we can use Nurse Practitioners who are trained right here for many of our medical needs. But we all know who has been fighting that tooth and nail, don’t we BC_Doc?

#322 Tony on 09.05.17 at 5:31 pm

Re: #274 Victor V on 09.05.17 at 1:08 pm

Poloz will give a spiel that will send the Canadian dollar higher tomorrow but even one interest rate increase will be nothing short of a miracle. I fully expect the Bank of Canada rate to be at zero before the end of next year.

#323 MF on 09.05.17 at 5:34 pm

#314 nick on 09.05.17 at 5:06 pm

oh yeah and why is that?

Is it not an essential service?

Are we against people getting paid a livable wage for providing an essential service now?

Why don’t you become a garbage man then instead of crying on here about how much they get paid.

MF

#324 Ben on 09.05.17 at 5:38 pm

I thought TREB was supposed to release numbers today? What’s going on?

#325 Rexx Rock on 09.05.17 at 5:44 pm

An amazing year for Vancouver condo investors or speculators.22% increase in 1 year is awsome.The trend is your friend until it ends.Victoria is rocking also.Everbody wants to live in Van and Vic.Renters are getting slaughterd.Rent increases,bidding wars on rentals and renters getting kicked out on phony claims so the landlord can raise the rent big time.These two cities are definitely not for renters with low or middle class income.Fellow coworkers are comlaining of cost of living in this city for themeselves and their kids.It seems all retires are forced to work in this city if their pension is under $2400 a month.

#326 Stan Broock on 09.05.17 at 5:47 pm

Lib-tard media.

Canadians rich through debt.
https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/photos/canadians-wealthier-ever-slideshow-wp-184943936/

Yesterday there was an article that Canadians can not retire.

So lie-tard media: which one it is?

#327 nick on 09.05.17 at 5:50 pm

#314 nick on 09.05.17 at 5:06 pm

oh yeah and why is that?

Is it not an essential service?

Are we against people getting paid a livable wage for providing an essential service now?

Why don’t you become a garbage man then instead of crying on here about how much they get paid.

MF

______________________________

Blah blah blah blah.

Use your brain. You could use the argument of “Can you imagine of X didnt do Y for a few days? Weeks?” to justify almost anything.

Stupid argument from a long time useless poster.

#328 MF on 09.05.17 at 6:38 pm

#325 nick on 09.05.17 at 5:50 pm

haha

Glad I upset you (that was the point).

MF

#329 Sue T2? on 09.05.17 at 7:21 pm

#278 Reality 1 on 09.05.17 at 1:37 pm

to # 182 Sue T2 ? re: comment to Turner Nation # 106

Give your head a shake.

Yeah, I want to exchange sovereign issued currency for;

1) a commoditized fabrication that can essentially be created by anyone with the computer capacity in their basement, and;

2) that trades on UNREGULATED markets, and;

3) that can be manipulated by someone with an algorithm and 20 million bucks. (Hint there are thousands of people savvy and wealthy enough to do this), and;

4) whose species (Litecoin, hundreds others) multiply without restriction essentially every week, and;

5) is backed by nothing – no assets, collateral or taxing power , and;

6) that Paris Hilton is currently shilling for an IPO (ICO) for one such “coin”

See Howard Marks’ (billionaire hedge fund manager with a 40 year track record)take on the matter – google his comments.

Good luck with that.

Watch what happens.

My humble prediction is that every major government will outlaw / restrict crypto “currencies” once enough fools have bought into it to teach them a big lesson on what a currency really is.

Yeah, right – where do I sign up ?

Turner Nation ain’t butthurt – he’s got a brain !

You have plenty of inaccuracies, too many to spend time with them one by one.

People have wide range of opinion, as with anything highly speculative and especially previously non-existent.

It is hard to estimate the impact of even much smaller scale change than Bitcoin and Ether.

Blackberry co-CEOs reaction to iPhone comes to my mind “who would ever want more than email on their phone”.

Nobody forces you to “sign up”, it’s entirely speculative – everybody knows.

I recovered a while ago my initial small investment (about 10 grand), in worst case I have nothing to lose. On the other hand, my current holding could pay for half of my outstanding mortgage. I will let it ride, not in a rush to cash out. The money spent on it was on top of TFSA, RRSP, accelerated mortgage payment, etc.

OK, I could have had a new granite counter instead, but this is much more fun to watch. As I have said, I find it as a surprisingly useful tool to learn how to get detached from emotions while you are following the wide range of ups and downs. If it prevents me to panic sell only once, it was a great investment already.

#330 T on 09.05.17 at 7:57 pm

#257 Julian on 09.05.17 at 11:03 am
To ‘T’, #202 and #207

“A marriage is an equal partnership. This equal partnership invests in a business.”

“Spouses should be treated equally in all business ventures.”

While there may be merit to what you have said, the Canadian tax system is not based on the premise, or we would for example have across-the-board income splitting measures. I think Mark, InvestorsFriend and others have hit the nail on the hit with their comments. I support measures that try to simplify the tax system, limit exemptions and special carveouts and frankly, reduce the need for all sorts of special accounting tactics. If it means that doctors and other self-employed people need to be compensated differently, then market forces under revised taxation rules should help address that.

On employment income this is true. However assets are shared property in a marriage. Hence the division of such upon divorce.

#331 Reality 1 on 09.05.17 at 8:24 pm

to # 327 Sue T2 ?

Point out the inaccuracies in my post.

You can’t – they are all facts, not opinions.

I was not critisizing your actions with the cryptos – just telling you why TurnerNation is not wrong to be skeptical.

Btw… China just outlawed ICO’s ( Intial Coin Offerings) and Mark Mobius has warned that they are getting out of control.

But they know jack sh*t about finance , right ?

#332 Glengarry Girl on 09.05.17 at 8:29 pm

Stan Broock

I’m sure that culturally you may find the US and Dubai desireable. You probably fit in and are impressed with all them Ballers. The arrogant, name calling, I’m richer than you are BS is a big turn off to me. What I’m talking about is more important than money. I am observing from a position of experience. I’ve lived in 7 states since 2008. I also travel a lot, I’m back to Canada often. I’m not a jealous person and can live and work anywhere I want to. Just suggesting to a commenter that says her student doctor daughters may be happier in the US that there is more to life decisions than how much money you make or how much you pay in taxes…that is all.

#333 Glengarry Girl on 09.05.17 at 8:37 pm

#300 IH

No doubt some Canadians are happier with their lifestyle after immigrating to the US. I’m suggesting that it’s not the land of plenty that some make it out to be. That’s why Donald Trump is President and Nazis and Anti fascist are protesting. Civil unrest is peaking its head because the US has deteriorated over the past eight years that I’ve lived here.

#334 Sue T2? on 09.05.17 at 10:16 pm

#329 Reality 1 on 09.05.17 at 8:24 pm

to # 327 Sue T2 ?

Point out the inaccuracies in my post.

You can’t – they are all facts, not opinions.

I was not critisizing your actions with the cryptos – just telling you why TurnerNation is not wrong to be skeptical.

Btw… China just outlawed ICO’s ( Intial Coin Offerings) and Mark Mobius has warned that they are getting out of control.

But they know jack sh*t about finance , right ?

===

1) a commoditized fabrication that can essentially be created by anyone with the computer capacity in their basement, and;

– Not Bitcoin or Ether, they are way beyond that phase.

2) that trades on UNREGULATED markets, and;

– Bitcoin and Ether trades on exchanges, which are forced to operate under security legislation, based on banks, in terms of “know your client”. Fiat moves in and out to these exchanges through financial companies. In order to be able to buy and sell Bitcoin or Ether on these exchanges you need to provide same documents as for trading stocks or other securities on any online brokerage.

3) that can be manipulated by someone with an algorithm and 20 million bucks. (Hint there are thousands of people savvy and wealthy enough to do this), and;

– Again, not Bitcoin or Ether, they are beyond that phase. Mining them becomes more and more difficult by design.

4) whose species (Litecoin, hundreds others) multiply without restriction essentially every week, and;

– I am talking about Bitcoin and Ether, not any of the other cryptos. I am not interested in them.

5) is backed by nothing – no assets, collateral or taxing power , and;

– Bitcoin and Ether are based on a real, verified technical innovation that MAY shape the future, beside the already existing practical function of making payments, transferring value over the Internet that is convertible to fiat money or programmable contracts in a transparent ledger.

Is this “nothing” or “something”?
The future will decide, not you or me.

6) that Paris Hilton is currently shilling for an IPO (ICO) for one such “coin”

– Nothing to do with Bitcoin or Ether.

Btw… China just outlawed ICO’s ( Intial Coin Offerings) and Mark Mobius has warned that they are getting out of control.

– I am not talking about ICO’s. Bitcoin and Ether are far beyond that initial phase. Their existence is not dependent on ICOs. Bitcoin and Ether briefly crashed on the news in China, but greatly re-bounced already. Today’s ticker was quite red, Bitcoin gained during today’s stock trading hours +4.52%, USD +195.88
A fairly resilient move.

#335 James MF on 09.05.17 at 11:55 pm

#302 BC_Doc on 09.05.17 at 4:18 pm

Perhaps you can be one of the first patients to get one of those “lower cost foreign trained doctors.” Maybe T2 can import one in from Cuba for you.

***

Canadians also train in Cuba and Central/South America. I went through undergrad with several Canadians who trained in Cuba and Central/South America. Each is working as a doctor in Canada now.

The call is coming from inside the house…

#336 dave in kincardine on 09.06.17 at 7:36 am

So let us be held hostage by unethical doctors who think they are entitled to special tax treatment. After we fix the tax system let us fix the health system. Cuba has an excellent health system for a country that has very few resources and doctors make about $87 per month, give or take a few chickens. Hava has the largest medical teaching school in the world with 19 000 students. All free to the 19 000. These people really want to help people who are sick. Not get rich by creating shortages which they exploit. We seem to forget it costs taxpayers gigantic money to train doctors.

#337 nick on 09.06.17 at 2:09 pm

#325 nick on 09.05.17 at 5:50 pm

haha

Glad I upset you (that was the point).

MF

______________________________

Upset? I actually enjoy calling out people on illogical statements/arguments.

P.S. – Dont act like you were trying to get a rise out of someone as an attempt to disguise your ignorance. People see right through it.

#338 Bob on 09.06.17 at 2:17 pm

@288 N1tro
#118 OttawaMike on 09.04.17 at 7:50 pm
Here are some spread sheets that take into account the proposed changes and the difference after maxing out TFSA’s and RRSP’s.
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I also don’t see where the professor is making the case of “maxing out TFSA’s and RRSP’s” would be only yield a 5% difference unless you are misreading his analysis.

I completely agree with you. The spreadsheet looks at a very specific scenario.
It doesn’t consider the ‘spread’ in scenarios
e.g. if you make 50K/year, with TFSA/RRSP not maxed out

or if you make 250K/year, with TFSA/RRSP already maxed out

or, if you have variance on year 50K, another year 250K, etc.


The main point is, it is UNFAIR to compare a dollar $ of salaried employee vs a $ of business owner.

And the second point that many people forget – corporations were allowed to doctors to be more tax efficient (i.e. to shelter investment income) in return to have accept lower fees from the provincial government.

This point is missed by so many people.

If the average doctor earns $300K and has $125K in expenses, their gross is only $175K without benefits, bonuses, or pensions. The equivalent salary pay is probably about $140K/year.

So think of all the middle managers and VPs you know… and ask if a doctor should make more than him or her?

#339 Bob on 09.06.17 at 2:25 pm

For all those who don’t understand ‘cutting back hours’, here is a real life example.

I work and make about 80K/year and roughly 9-to-5.

My husband is a doctor and bills about $280/year… but with secretary costs, lease costs, etc. the take home pay is about $170K/year. This includes doing call 1 week a month, and teaching residents, attending associations and conferences, and seeing specialty clinics in the hospital.

He works about 8am-6pm + a few extra hours in the evenings for admin/paper work, and 1-in-4 weekends. That averages to 65 hours/week

We hire a nanny at about $38K/year, after taxes.

I love my job and don’t have the option of scaling back. So we’ve now decided that he will stop most of the unpaid extra work and reduce his clinic hours and call. No more weekend work.

We did the math, the kids are getting older. We have fired our nanny. And he’s going to work 7-to-3 hours so he can pick up the kids.

We’ll make less, but we’ll also pay less in taxes, less in nanny (job creation), etc. In fact, we are even thinking of reducing staff at the clinic.

Our take-home pay will be roughly the same.

#340 Average Joe on 09.06.17 at 6:02 pm

Uppa, uppa, uppa she goes, where she stops, nobody knows. The BoC rate, that is.

It is a good day to be debt-free