Duty of care

DADS1

Poor RBC.

Weeks ago the nation’s biggest, dumbest bank pulled a PR boner over a few dozen foreign IT workers. By failing to quickly address the perception it was throwing Canadians overboard to hire cheapo offshore dudes, the bank took a hit. It looked arrogant and uncaring. In the end, CEO Gord Nixon, no less, had to apologize. Millions in advertising goodwill and market share went poof.

Are they doing it again?

On Friday this nasty, iconoclastic blog brought you the latest RBC disaster: a fake editorial piece published by the Toronto Star ‘proving’ homeowners win (with a RBC mortgage) while renters lose. In fact, the numbers were breathtaking. A kid buying a $200,000 mortgage would end up with $420,000 in equity, says the bank, while the kid renter would pay $480,000, and get nothing. Apart from being factually incorrect (RBC assumed no mortgage renewals, fee or tax hikes for 25 years, while guaranteeing a quarter century of higher housing prices), it doesn’t even pass the smell test.

Condo rent in Toronto is now about 50% of condo ownership carrying costs once honest accounting is done. But the bank did everything it could to prove otherwise. Like comparing purchase of a unit in the burbs with renting one downtown, and warning about ‘potential rent increases’ with no provision for higher mortgage rates.

It was more than Raymond could bear. He complained.

I just saw your Toronto Star ad and corresponding blog entry regarding one of your mortgage ads at the Greater Fool comparing rent to buying. As an RBC client and shareholder, I am ashamed of your firm. I hope you bring this to the attention of your supervisors and their supervisors.

This type of misleading advertising is extremely dangerous — it harms a great number of people and is yet, another proof, that ‘big banks’ are evil. You, who are reading this, I hope, will be ashamed of this and do what’s in your power to correct this.

The bank responded, and sent in credit specialist Pierre Arsenault:

I’ve personally reviewed the blog/ad that you have mentioned thoroughly and I do understand how and where you can be getting these negative feelings. After carefully reviewing in-depth the information, we’ve made the advertisement very informative yet clear as to what details and fees have been taken in account. From the best of my knowledge, nothing on the advertisement seems to be falsified to give our new and existing customers the wrong idea and/or a biased opinion.

In all reality, some of the numbers aren’t perfect and they will never be – The entire advertisement is based on a client who will pay a 20% lump sum against their house and who are buying a specific house value with property taxes, insurances, heating, condo fees, etc. Some of these numbers (including interest rates, appreciation of property value, etc.) could be higher and/or lower but the idea is to give our clients a general feel for building equity in a house when you do own one in comparison to not building equity while renting. When we look at the end result, regardless of house value and monthly expenses, buying a house will eventually bring some equity while paying rent to the property owner won’t “build equity” per say, unless you can save on-the-side while paying rent.

I hope this reply to your message has been helpful and informative to you, as we are here to provide you with great financial advice and are definitely looking out for your best interest, as well as everyone else’s.

There you go. The bank stands by the piece. ‘Nothing falsified.’ No ‘biased opinion.’ The point of the ad was to ‘give our clients a general feel for building equity in a house… in comparison to not building equity while renting.”

In order to do that RBC created a faux editorial graphic showing a ‘payoff’ of $420,000 for someone buying a condo versus a $0 gain for the renter. Rent increases were noted, but not mortgage hikes.  Rent paid was contrasted only interest payments, no principal. A cheap, bought unit in the burbs was compared to a rented, expensive one downtown. Monthly carrying costs for the renter were purposely overstated while ownership costs were deliberately understated. And nowhere was a word about market risks a buyer might face that a renter would not.

If this were a come-on for Krazy Karl’s Mortgage Madness.com, nobody would notice.

But RBC dominates the industry. It has more than $150 billion in mortgages outstanding. Millions of clients look to it for honest and ethical behaviour, and unbiased advice. Surely our greatest, most systemically-important financial institution has a duty of care to uphold.

I’m sending this to Gord Nixon. Have a nice day, Pierre.

179 comments ↓

#1 Mathman on 05.20.13 at 8:16 pm

All the numbers were factual, we just picked-and-chose which ones to include.

I mean, what number isn’t factual? 4, 25000, Pi, they’re all factual numbers.

#2 Ralph Cramdown on 05.20.13 at 8:20 pm

Don’t get mad, get even. Borrow $40k from them for six months, pay nothing in interest, and invest it in something productive. Don’t forget to pay it back on time.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/personal-loans/myproject-mastercard.html

#3 Randy on 05.20.13 at 8:21 pm

What’s a mortgage ?

#4 johnny d on 05.20.13 at 8:23 pm

This type of garbage seems to have no end. Just reading the comments in this blog the past few days, it seems more and more people are accepting this crazy house lust as the new reality… Especially those from Saskatchewan. Guess a bogus article from RBC actually works to some extent.

#5 timothy on 05.20.13 at 8:26 pm

No comment !

#6 The iceberg called "The Iceboat": some preliminary T.O. condo stats on 05.20.13 at 8:29 pm

http://recharts.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-iceberg-called-iceboat-some.html

For now just the aggregated numbers of units for sale or for rent per each building.

#7 Thiiiird on 05.20.13 at 8:31 pm

I bet all the bank CEOs know your name by heart.

I knew you became mainstream when you replaced pictures of scantily clad women with more family oriented (but still fun) pictures.

Ran out of women. — Garth

#8 Steve on 05.20.13 at 8:33 pm

What a corporate joke….they had the chance to correct the ad and the didn’t! Corporate platitudes

#9 East Van on 05.20.13 at 8:35 pm

Anyone who expects “honest and ethical behaviour” from a corporation is truly a greater fool.

You would be better off looking for that in the Senate or the PMO.

#10 Tripp on 05.20.13 at 8:46 pm

If a large and respectable institution like RBC is pulling this kind of stunts I will have to assume they are in some kind of desperate damage prevention mode.

Hopefully the housing scheme will crash hard and the younger generations will be able to face a realistic market. Unlike the picture above, their financial future can not be photoshoped.

#11 blue steel on 05.20.13 at 8:46 pm

One can only imagine the fallout if the same claim was made about owning RBC shares vs owning another banks shares.

All the more reason the real estate industry needs regulation like securities in the stock market.

#12 Andrew on 05.20.13 at 8:48 pm

> Ran out of women. — Garth

I hear Romney still may have a few binders full of them if you’re short.

#13 Squatter on 05.20.13 at 8:49 pm

Garth, we need you as Prime Minister.
I’m so bored of the bad clowns we always get.

#14 T.O. Bubble Boy on 05.20.13 at 8:53 pm

Is that ad any more misleading than the typical “You’re Richer Than You Think” (Scotia), “Take a Payment Vacation” (TD), or other bank marketing B.S.?

How about Mutual Fund marketing?!?!? Advertising rates of return without the 2.5% MER included is also deceitful.

So, yes – this ad is misleading, it uses fake numbers to try and prove a point (3.5% mortgage for 25 straight years and 2.6% apprecitation for 25 straight years – hahahaha), and even puts stereotypes in the cartoon pictures…. but I find it no worse than the other big bank marketing that goes all 1984 on you and claims debt is wealth and financial slavery is freedom.

#15 TurnerNation on 05.20.13 at 8:55 pm

Is that Pierre Poutine? The smoother.

#16 Ronaldo on 05.20.13 at 8:59 pm

The reason I moved my business from RBC to TD and local CU in 2009. They have become “too big to care”.

#17 Stomper on 05.20.13 at 9:00 pm

I wonder if RBC will run an alternative ad to “give their clients a general feel for how to destroy wealth by over leveraging into housing…. in comparison to building a balanced equity portfolio while renting.”

I think probably not.

#18 blokexistentialist on 05.20.13 at 9:04 pm

So, two men putting off changing diapers as long as they can … Canadians ignoring their financial reality. Keeping the problem at arm’s length, even though they can smell something’s wrong.
A really NASTY bout of national diaper rash on the way.

#19 Smoking Man on 05.20.13 at 9:05 pm

Big banks, big business, use big pr agencies. Dinasors in the speed decentralized sources of information.

Play book from the old manual don’t work anymore…

Business is business, it’s never fair or hounest, it a competitive game of survival.

Anyone who expects it to be anything else is an idiot. You probably got 90 s in High School…. If fair play is important to you never start a company,.

#20 Julia on 05.20.13 at 9:08 pm

#2 Ralph Cramdown on 05.20.13 at 8:20 pm
Don’t get mad, get even. Borrow $40k from them for six months, pay nothing in interest, and invest it in something productive. Don’t forget to pay it back on time.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/personal-loans/myproject-mastercard.html
——————————————————————
Great idea! We should all do it!
Maybe Garth would set up a 6 month long group investment account for his blog dogs and we all throw in as much as RBC will spot us June 1. He gets his .5% and we get the rest. Pay it all back November 1. We walk away with about a grand each?

#21 Shawn on 05.20.13 at 9:21 pm

Predictions are Difficult…

… especially when they are about the future.

Does anyone really know if renting will work out better than owning? Over the next 25 years?

For some people, owning will lead to stability and forced savings.

Some people will rent and invest the difference. Others will rent and drink the difference.

Its one thing to be pro renting. It’s another to be hostile to those that would buy, as many on this Site seem to be.

To each his own?

#22 Cici on 05.20.13 at 9:25 pm

Uggh – Precisely why I no longer do “business” with these scuzzy scammers.
Oh yeah, they’re looking out for us and our best interests alright. Joke of the century.

#23 Mithan on 05.20.13 at 9:28 pm

I remember in 2006 when I went to get pre-approved for a Mortgage and I went to RBC at the time.

They approved me to $160k but really advised me to only go to about $130k or so (this was in Regina). I was making $65k a year at the time.

Then all hell broke loose 4 months later and what I was “qualified” for suddenly almost doubled up to almost $250k, on the same income. 2 years later it went up to about $350k using 30 year amortization and about 3% or so. It was insane.

I was blown away. Still am..

I was doubly blown away when people were outbidding me on homes by $50-70k and I was like “wtf is going on?!?!”.

I later found out it was simply due to the Banks loosening up their lending rules and giving money to everybody.

Our big boom was said to be based on potash and oil. In truth it was based on the banks turning on the spiggots and people taking on debt, causing a lot of new demand for homes (and employment).

As they say. This will not end well.

Still, RBC was the most honest of them all at that time. The nice lady at that bank was cautious and tried to protect me. She didn’t know what was coming…

#24 JSS on 05.20.13 at 9:33 pm

Regardless of the argument between RBC and Garth Turner, I will still happily continue to buy RBC shares.

Who gives a rat’s a%$ what’s published in the paper. As long as the RBC common stock continues to pay increasing dividends.

#25 Freedom First on 05.20.13 at 9:37 pm

Gotta hand it to RBC. They know the “Financial Literacy” of the house horny house loving average Canadian. They are as retarded as the Americans, the Japanese, and the Europeans. It’s like a cult.

I view the Banks in the same light as the Casinos springing up all over Canada. Guess who pays for all the Bank and Casino buildings and land? ….and the employees?….and the profits to the owners? Wait, I know……the “Financially Illiterate”. Paying interest on anything, or gambling in a casino? Yes, That, I believe, is not smart.

#26 Yuus bin Haad on 05.20.13 at 9:38 pm

“because anything goes, nothing matters, and nobody cares.” (Jim Kunstler)

“It’s every man for himself …” (a bunch of people)

#27 I am in C on 05.20.13 at 9:39 pm

Be careful , Garth !!

#28 will on 05.20.13 at 9:42 pm

#16 Ronaldo: “too big to care”

Good line Ronaldo.

#29 S on 05.20.13 at 9:42 pm

What do you expect from an institution that has been known to close so called “inactive accounts” and confiscate what was in them. Yes, really, in Canada.

#30 Duty of care — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Estate – The Affluent Boomer on 05.20.13 at 9:43 pm

[…] via Duty of care — Greater Fool – Authored by Garth Turner – The Troubled Future of Real Estate. […]

#31 KG on 05.20.13 at 9:43 pm

Sorry Garth, cannot slow down for the ant in the way, we need to hit the jackpot first.

#32 VT on 05.20.13 at 9:48 pm

If you want to help this issue with RBC to go viral and you use twitter then just copy, paste and tweet the message below:

Dear @RBC_Canada Are you misleading #Canada about #RealEstate? >>> http://tinyurl.com/k6smqvr <<< #RoyalBank #mortgage #BANC #FINA #GordNixon

#33 X on 05.20.13 at 9:48 pm

Apples are on sale, but you have to go pick them yourself.

Oranges are here, conveniently located, but overpriced.

Which fruit is the better investment?

Either way in time, they are both going to go rotten.

If RBC wanted to show how equity can be built by owning, they didn’t need to do a comparison at all.

And if they did want to do a fair comparison, they could have used the same sized units in the same building. Duh.

But I guess that would not have helped to sell as many mortgages would it. It was intentional, and crap. RBC knows it, we know it.

#34 Ralph Cramdown on 05.20.13 at 9:49 pm

#22 Shawn — “Does anyone really know if renting will work out better than owning? Over the next 25 years?”

I can’t speak for everywhere, but if buying today in Toronto or Vancouver turns out to be better than renting and buying at some future point, it’ll mean either that the central bank failed in its inflation control mission, or we’ll be seeing some serious improvements to labour factor productivity which will flow through to wages. Any other possibilities?

#35 jan on 05.20.13 at 9:57 pm

Am I right in my assumption that the government does not want to regulate this giant Ponzi-scheme that is real estate and banking because it will prick this smelly bubble thus throw our country into depression ???????

In light of what I see what’s happening in this country today, I wish I had never immigrated here at all!!

#36 Musty one on 05.20.13 at 10:06 pm

Would this new RBC ad story be a good example to send to CBC marketplace for a story? CBC did a good job exposing RBC for their foreign worker fiasco. They may be interested.

#37 Dean Mason on 05.20.13 at 10:09 pm

A $200,000 at 3.50% is misleading.It will be more like 6.50% for 25 years.It will not cost $11,503 but $16,400 a year.This is $4,897*25=$122,425 extra in mortgage payments.

The $7,199 per year in property taxes,condo fees,condo insurance,utilities with a conservative 4.00% annual increase for 25 years is $299,808.89-$7,199*25=$179,975=$119,833.89 extra cost of all 4 items above.

The equivalent rent compared to the $240,000 condo is $1,000 a month and if you use a 3.00% annual rent increase over 25 years the total rent would be $437,511.17.

This is $42,488.82 less total rent for 25 years than they stated.We are now up to $284,747.71 total extra costs and savings from rent.The initial one time $55,650 extra cost of buying versus renting at a conservative 5.00% compounded for 25 years would be $188,450.65-$55,650=$132,800.65.

If it was in TFSA’s, 91.65% of the $132,800.65 would be mostly tax free.The maximum per couple from 2009-2013 total TFSA contribution room available if never contributed is $51,000.

We are now up to a grand total of $417,548.36.The so called estimated equity built up for 25 years of $420,000 has 99.4162% vanished.It’s all gone.

#38 wallflower on 05.20.13 at 10:12 pm

“per say”

Serious? A bank employee typed and sent this?

Wurd fer wurd. — Garth

#39 JD on 05.20.13 at 10:14 pm

@ T.O. Bubble Boy – MERs are included in advertised mutual fund returns. Returns are net of fees.

#40 Shawn on 05.20.13 at 10:15 pm

RBC versus Toronto Star

I am disturbed by advertisements masquerading as editorial stories. So I think it is Toronto Star and perhaps also RBC who have ethical issues there.

I doubt you would see that in the Buffalo News or the Omaha papers both owned by (guess who?).

The RBC ad itself does not disturb me because they give their assumptions, however unrealistic, and because I really don’t care who buys and who rents.

#41 Coho on 05.20.13 at 10:19 pm

It should be getting obvious even to the sleepiest amongst us that there is an undeclared war on the people through various means.

Since when in a society which now sacrifices the needs of the many to support the ‘too big to fails’ does the latter care about the peoples’ best interests. We’re nothing more than sheep to be sheared, crops to be harvested, and cattle to slaughter to increase the bottom line for the shareholders. But, who are the shareholders? Aren’t the bulk of the shares owned by the few elite that already have obscene amounts of wealth?

#42 FTP - First Time Poster on 05.20.13 at 10:20 pm

Have you not all forgotten that it was RBC that was cited in the LIBOR Interest Rate scandal and subsequent lawsuit in NYC? Expecting “honest & ethical” behavior from these parasites is like asking the architect of the Titanic what he thinks of his design.

#43 Hurly on 05.20.13 at 10:29 pm

Garth,
Are we not biting the hand that feeds. You are always preaching about owing bank preferred stocks.

Preferred yields are divorced from profits. — Garth

#44 Dean Mason on 05.20.13 at 10:40 pm

Actually it is even worse for the owning versus renting condo advertisement.The extra mortgage payments every month and the extra condo fees,condo insurance,condo property taxes,condo utilities every year and the lower rent payments can be reinvested.

This is a good estimate but is not exact.The average total extra cost per year for owning the condo is $11,389 versus renting.This money conservatively invested at 5.00% would be worth $543,563.93 after 25 years.

The total extra cost and saving from rent without any 5.00% investment return for 25 years is $284,747.71.The extra compounded return on this reinvested money for 25 years is $258,816.22.
The real grand total is $676,364.58 ($417,548.36+258,816.22).

The couple could put 96.58% of $11,389 in TFSA’s every year.An increase for the TFSA contribution limit of $500 in 3 or 4 years and the whole thing is tax free.The whole $543,563.93 investments would be tax free.

#45 sniffers row on 05.20.13 at 10:44 pm

His last name is ARSEnault. What an arse.

#46 Bman on 05.20.13 at 10:50 pm

Garth is a reddit fan….cool

#47 Boombust on 05.20.13 at 10:51 pm

The RBC guy lost me at “per say”.

Actually, even before that.

#48 DonDWest on 05.20.13 at 10:52 pm

#2 Ralph Cramdown on 05.20.13 at 8:20 pm

Don’t get mad, get even. Borrow $40k from them for six months, pay nothing in interest, and invest it in something productive. Don’t forget to pay it back on time.
http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/personal-loans/myproject-mastercard.html

————————————————————
Excellent!

Notice how they advertised the card as a means to get home renovations? *Laughter* Of course we’re smarter than RBC advertises. We’re not going to blow 40K worth of free money for 6 months on useless consumption.

Just get the MasterCard, put the 40K in a conservative portfolio, pay the 40K back in 6 months and then cancel the credit card (this is the most damaging action you can do to credit card companies/banks).

Then repeat the process utilizing all your family members/friends as trial members to have multiples of 40K with no interest at your disposal. Your family will then profit greatly from using the banks money. While I’m at it, I’ll probably make a club at work doing the same.

Be sure to spread the word to everyone – let’s make RBC the next Leeman Brothers.

#49 Bob Zurunkel on 05.20.13 at 10:54 pm

When I pay my rent I considered it an expense. I do not anticipate a return on it. It is shelter. As in food, clothing, shelter. And I do not have to consider how much longer I need to “build equity” in case I want to move to something bigger, smaller, nicer, cheaper, foreign…etc.

#50 Coho on 05.20.13 at 11:05 pm

A US politician recently stated that what keeps him up at night is the thought of ‘home grown terror’. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the focus on the ‘war on terror has shifted from radical Muslims to Joe and Mary front porch.

How can we pretend to live in a free society when the biggest institutions from government to banks continue to fail us through ineptness AND deception. It seems there is a concerted effort to usurp in nations all over the world the power of the people, by the propagation of misinformation, half-truths and lies by what should be our most trusted institutions.

Booga booga fear, misinfo, disinfo and outright lies are today’s standard in broadcasting. In a free society intelligence and detective work is what is used to round up the baddies. The general public should be none the wiser about ‘booga booga’ and be left to carry on with their business. Instead, fear mongering is the order of the day where people are encouraged to turn each other in over perceived suspicious behavior. Yes, Joe and Mary front porch are not to be trusted. We are all suspects in the eyes of government.

The future intentions (other acts of terror) of the alleged Boston bombers are all over the airwaves. What ever happened to national security? Instead, fear and BS is generously distributed like cheap watches for public consumption while truth is kept from the people like the crown jewels for reasons of ‘national security’.

Notice to Americans. Give up your right to bear arms and see what happens to the remainder of your Bill of Rights with no way to protect it. I think the Founding Fathers were onto something, no? They were well aware of the tendency of government to usurp more and more power for itself. The 2nd amendment was instituted to enable the people to enforce the others in their Bill of Rights. Wake up.

#51 Driesdtl on 05.20.13 at 11:05 pm

#8 Steve – Correcting the ad would be an admission of guilt… std corp denial = damage control

#52 45north on 05.20.13 at 11:09 pm

As an RBC client and shareholder, I am ashamed of your firm.

well I’m an RBC client and shareholder and I’m pretty sure that it will go on producing income and dividends but more fundamentally I would say that RBC is not prepared to do what it has to do. It has to tighten lending requirements and it has to enforce the mortgages it has written. It’s not prepared to do that.

People are going to feel betrayed when the good guy becomes the bad guy. The bad guy is going to flat out tell them, your condo in the suburbs is not in downtown – sorry. The $180,000 increase in value didn’t happen – sorry. The interest rate when you renew your mortgage is double what you are paying now – sorry.

The RBC team responsible for the ad should have to run the RBC delinquent division. For the next ten years.

#53 Jon B on 05.20.13 at 11:09 pm

I don’t get it. Banks in this country and most others are evil. Always have been, always will be. Why would being a large and established bank mean they would operate in the interests of their clients? Only a fool would trust a bank to provide unbiased opinion. No other industry generates the kind of profits these crooks do. Our laws protect banks and ensure they are untouchable. In this country they wield influence on par with the federal government. Gord Nixon will get the last laugh. He and the other bankers ultimately answer to nobody. Bank clients generally will not pick a fight with their bank as it is the source of their credit that pays for their lifestyle. Oh that sweet sweet credit.

#54 KG on 05.20.13 at 11:13 pm

#44
Garth,
Are we not biting the hand that feeds. You are always preaching about owing bank preferred stocks.

Preferred yields are divorced from profits. — Garth
—————–
Let us try it other way:
Are we not kissing the same hand that is pushing the other people in a pit ?

#55 valleyrenter on 05.20.13 at 11:16 pm

It’s like RBC is comparing/suggesting ‘why throw your money away on renting a condo in Coal Harbour for $5000 a month, when you can own a brand new townhouse in Aggasiz for as little as $220,000!’ Ha!

#56 Notta Sheeple on 05.20.13 at 11:24 pm

#25JSS on 05.20.13 at 9:33 pm
“….Who gives a rat’s a%$ what’s published in the paper. As long as the RBC common stock continues to pay increasing dividends…….”
=======================

Gordon Nixon! Is that you ?????

Still working on becoming the poster boy for everything that is currently wrong with the world?

#57 Canadian Watchdog on 05.20.13 at 11:25 pm

Key charts for long-term real estate outlook

Government Surplus/Deficit vs Canada Home Price Chart 1

Government T-Bills and Bonds Outstanding Chart 2

Canada Benchmark Bond Yields Chart 3

Historic Overnight Rate Chart 4

The long-term outlook on real estate is about government, banks and consumer balance sheets, nothing else. If hundreds of billions of government stimulus and rock bottom rates can get our economy moving, then nothing else will. Debt can only be shuffled and hidden for a certain amount of time. Eventually, at some point, someone has to pay it.

#58 Gig on 05.20.13 at 11:36 pm

But hey … Lets load up on the preferred. they will pay em because we know the banks may toones of cash screwing people royally.

#59 Shawn on 05.20.13 at 11:44 pm

Someone said: The RBC guy lost me at “per say”.

**************************************

Ya don’t se?

Ralph Waldo Emerson however said: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

Ya know the purpose of writin is to comunikate, not to hue slavishly to the master’s dictate of how each word should be spelled. Particularly when in English there is often little ryme nor reason to how words are speled, is their?

Also words evolve, if misspelled or misused often enough, what was wrong becomes correct. Such as cutting the mustard rather than passing muster. Or such as OK. Only fuddy duddies will cling to silly arbitrary rules.

Time to clean up and simplify the English language.

We can then make spelling idiot proof (note gratuitous opening for insult)

#60 Timbo on 05.20.13 at 11:53 pm

http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2013/5/20/germany-fires-live-ammo-in-sino-european-trade-war-at-brusse.html

“On Sunday, it was German Economy Minister Philipp Rösler, who warned of a trade war with China and lambasted the European Commission for its decision to start an anti-dumping procedure against Chinese telecom equipment makers. A “grave mistake,” he called it. And punitive duties against Chinese solar makers where “the wrong instrument,” he said. “The German industry is deeply worried, and rightly so.” The Commission must do “everything” to prevent an escalation of the trade war. It “must rely on a negotiated solution and dialogue, not on threats,” he said.”

Someone or something is going to snap…Jobs are now becoming a real factor…….

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100752563

“Reports that China may step up the diversification of its huge foreign exchange reserves is not great news for U.S. Treasurys, already under pressure from talk about an easing in the Federal Reserve’s bond-buying program. But, the fall-out from such a move is likely to be limited, analysts say. ”

ah the ‘limited’ key phrase of the month…carry on…

#61 blokexistentialist on 05.20.13 at 11:57 pm

#2 and #49 re: RBC Card.
What a super idea. Nothing cheers my heart more than Canadians with enough moxy to fight back.
Good on you.

#62 D.D. Corkum on 05.21.13 at 12:11 am

#2 Ralph Cramdown on 05.20.13 at 8:20 pm

…Borrow $40k from them for six months, pay nothing in interest, and invest it in something productive….

———

Some deals like this involve a one time “administrative fee” or such at 1% of the borrowed amount. Treating this as “front-end interest”, you don’t really get that money for free. It forces you to invest in something that yields more than 2% anually. That is tough to do in a 6 month period if you want to be “risk free”.

#63 peter on 05.21.13 at 12:16 am

Maybe one day Canadians will wake up and realize that Canadian Banks are first and foremost in the business of making as much money as possible for themselves and their shareholders. Bank employees more than ever are compensated on achieving sales targets and receive pseudo commissions that they often call “bonuses”. The main difference between bank mortgage advisers and independent mortgage brokers is the Big Blue RBC logo.

#64 Rainclouds on 05.21.13 at 12:34 am

Banks.
Real Estate Assn’s.

Bathing in each others bathwater?

http://whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.ca/

#65 Devore on 05.21.13 at 12:35 am

“Condo rent in Toronto is now about 50% of condo ownership carrying costs once honest accounting is done.”

Missed the excellent post yesterday. It is revealing when RE players have to resort to such heavy handed advertising.

But even if the stacked “honest accounting” comparison ended up marginally favouring the owner, renting would still win.

First, no one rents for 25 years, or lives in the same 1 bedroom condo for 25 years. At least not in North America. While some people will never own, is this really the type of person you are comparing yourself against? Way to aim low.

Second, young people who are buying today probably have white collar jobs downtown. Commuting from the burbs is a real killer. Does wonders for your fledgeling social life. You almost certainly need a car. If it’s a couple, you either have 2 cars, or cripple your lifestyle trying to juggle 2 people commuting in one vehicle. And just try to find a 1 bedroom condo with 2 parking spots.

All that to “win” by a few bucks?

The only honest accounting has you living in a tight 1 bedroom condo for a couple of years, maybe 4-5, then selling it, and the price has to be up a healthy amount for you to come out ahead after transaction costs and taxes and interest paid.

#66 The Hawk on 05.21.13 at 12:57 am

What about the bank rate fees increase June 1. Mortgage business will go down by 50% or more,The consumer is tapped out shopping will slow down Canadian dollar will go down on a slow down in the layoffs.

#67 Vangrrl on 05.21.13 at 1:15 am

That letter from the bank was really badly written- not just the content, but grammar too… right from the start:
“I’ve personally reviewed the blog/ad that you’ve mentioned thoroughly”… um, you mean you’ve thoroughly reviewed it?…
“per say”?!
“On a client who.. and who are buying” … painful.

Makes me appreciate your writing all the more, Garth!

#68 Dienekes on 05.21.13 at 1:21 am

I can’t believe anyone on this blog would attribute anything bad to RBC. Without these nice people, there would be no reason to go to work, because housing would be cheap.
Wait a minute, shouldn’t the goal of industrialization and advanced technology be 100% unemployment? Time to do what we want, not what we have to to eke out an existence at menial jobs.
I guess we have everything backwards. High housing costs and 100% employment.

#69 Aaron - Melbourne on 05.21.13 at 1:32 am

For real?

They send in a guy called Pierre Arsenault.
Pierre ARSENAL (the big guns)
Pierre ARSE and ALL

Alsmost as good as
Lloyd Blankfein
or
BANK FIEND

I may not be dyslexic but I sure do understand it.

#70 Tom from Mississauga on 05.21.13 at 1:37 am

The thing with Gord Nixon I found hilarious was while he’s outsourcing jobs out of Ontario. He was the Chair of this commitee.

http://news.ontario.ca/medt/en/2012/06/strong-action-for-ontarios-economy.html

#71 willworkforpickles on 05.21.13 at 2:18 am

never mind that shit …where the el’s the mayor? holed up in a crack house over the long weekend or what??.

#72 Victoria on 05.21.13 at 2:28 am

I live on the west coast and my brother lives in GTA. I went my local RBC to deposit a cheque into his
GTA account. I had his name, account number and the branch address. The teller refused to deposit the cheque into his account. I could only deposit a bank draft or cash. When I suggested that she accept the cheque and then place a hold on the funds, she looked at me like I was crazy. RBC does not accept cheques to be deposited into bank accounts!

#73 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO on 05.21.13 at 3:13 am

I used to respect large corporations. I now despise most of them. Their CEOs lay awake at night thinking of new ways to screw people.
For example. All the printer companies have added expensive chips so they can force you home users to purchase Ink that costs little more than water at $20 to $40 per cartridge. All you who own Lexmark Printers may not know it but they go way overboard by actually frying the chip with an electric shock so you cannot refill the cartridge.
This should be criminal but it goes under everyones radar. So they get away with it.
RBC = Lexmark and many others. Run by Criminals.

#74 Julia on 05.21.13 at 4:03 am

Has anyone run the numbers comparing the same downtown condo? This would mean adding a 100k to the price, more if you don’t want to be looking right into your neighbour’s unit, and much higher than stated condo fees, taxes, etc.

#75 Buy? Curious? on 05.21.13 at 4:17 am

All your life, you’re told to be a good person, have faith in institutions, ie. Church, Gov’t, Police, Schools and all they are is slaughterhouses for stupid people. You can’t trust these people at all. Though I’m a big hypocrite. These bastard companies are the ones that I have in my Portfolio, BP, Apple, Monsanto, RBC and a few others that pay out nicely and continue to record big profits. Do you who I find is the best stock picker in the world? Naomi Klein! Soon as she tries to expose a company, like Dupont or some other company trying to screw the world in some way, I drop $1000 into my trading account and ride it out for about 3-9months. She’s no Garth Turner, but hedging my bets against Vampire Squids of the world pays for my extra curricular activities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtmdGMPgU7I

#76 Pulp Faction (Dorf) on 05.21.13 at 4:35 am

“per say”

Serious? A bank employee typed and sent this?

Wurd fer wurd. — Garth
——————————————————-

Wait until you find out how many bank employees failed MATH. :-(

#77 Kalergie on 05.21.13 at 4:40 am

Rather than taking a loan with RBC, I’d buy their shares as they apparently go over dead bodies to make money!

#78 Notta Sheeple on 05.21.13 at 6:32 am

#71Tom from Mississauga on 05.21.13 at 1:37 am
“……The thing with Gord Nixon I found hilarious was while he’s outsourcing jobs out of Ontario. He was the Chair of this commitee…….”
=======================

Excellent find, Tom.

Like you, I laughed so hard this morning I’m still digging the milk & Cheerios from my nose.

#79 Keeping the Faith on 05.21.13 at 6:46 am

Thanks Garth and Raymond,

I just sent the same email to RBC requesting they address the misleading advertising. If they don’t respond differently, I will consider moving my business elsewhere.
Cheers

#80 T.O. Bubble Boy on 05.21.13 at 7:04 am

#40 JD on 05.20.13 at 10:14 pm
@ T.O. Bubble Boy – MERs are included in advertised mutual fund returns. Returns are net of fees.
—————
Sure…. But what about comparisons to benchmarks? What about commissions or other fees? Are expenses included in the neat little calculators that are on every bank site to help plan retirement etc.? Are the MERs hidden in fine print?

#81 CJ on 05.21.13 at 7:07 am

It wouldn’t surprise me if the person or persons who created and approved the RBC “advertorial” actually believed the content was true.

#82 Ralph Cramdown on 05.21.13 at 7:23 am

#63 D.D. Corkum — [re. RBC Myproject Mastercard] “Some deals like this involve a one time “administrative fee” or such at 1% of the borrowed amount. Treating this as “front-end interest”, you don’t really get that money for free”

As someone who’s used the product, I can report that they screwed up the MICR on the “cheques” and as a result we had to get a draft for the entire amount instead. The draft cost $3.50 and there were no other fees. The bank even extended the interest free period for a month or two. We borrowed $40,000 for over six months and all it cost us was $3.50, plus having to repel a bank telemarketer once, after we’d repaid. When the application asks what you’re going to use the money for, choose “education,” as in, here’s an education on what happens when you offer money for free.

#83 Vik on 05.21.13 at 7:27 am

I’m sending this to Gord Nixon.

You might also want to let Mr. Nixon know that iGate, the outsourcing company hired by RBC has just fired its CEO after sexual harassment allegations cropped up.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2013/05/20/igate-sacks-chief-executive-murthy-after-sexual-harassment-claim/

#84 maxx on 05.21.13 at 7:44 am

#24 Mithan on 05.20.13 at 9:28 pm

Great post.
TNL@T branch I often go to tells a sad tale. She and others who have been toiling at the front lines are having their schedules completely overhauled: reduced hours from full time (which carries benefits) to about 30% less work time and working weekends and evenings with no regard to seniority. This puts everyone, regardless of how many years of loyal service, on an equal footing with foreign workers…..and soooo much easier to replace with cheaper labour- not that she was paid a ridiculous sum to begin with.

TNL@TB is not happy at all. After 28 years of loyal service, who can blame her or her peers?

Complement MSM and “official channels” with talking to people….and then talk to more people. Sometimes I can’t believe what I hear.

Saved me making the wrong move many times. I ask myself what mechanisms are being used to prop up balance sheets in this lousy economy and I see very questionable behaviour.

#85 Devore on 05.21.13 at 8:08 am

#74 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO

All the printer companies have added expensive chips so they can force you home users to purchase Ink that costs little more than water at $20 to $40 per cartridge.

How is that criminal? Is Gillette criminal too?

Buy a quality printer from a quality company, and you can keep on refilling your cartridges.

#86 Grantmi on 05.21.13 at 8:15 am

#28 I am in C on 05.20.13 at 9:39 pm
Be careful , Garth !!

What. … You’re concerned that RBC might send da boys out to visit Garth. I don’t think Garth owns a horse.

#87 maxx on 05.21.13 at 8:21 am

#58 Canadian Watchdog on 05.20.13 at 11:25 pm

“…If hundreds of billions of government stimulus and rock bottom rates can get our economy moving, then nothing else will. Debt can only be shuffled and hidden for a certain amount of time. Eventually, at some point, someone has to pay it.”

Excellent, and tx for the charts.
Late in ’06, after years of observing the rise in debt “products” in retail and banking sectors, especially from 2000-2005, I sold my RE. It was slightly premature, but still a great time to crystallize gains. These properties continued to rise, but over the past year+, have dropped over 20%….with much longer time on market. They are now worth about or less than what I got. This slide will continue for a long time, no matter how much more economic “action” goes on.

#88 Victor V on 05.21.13 at 8:34 am

Should I buy that condo now, or wait for prices to fall?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/should-i-buy-that-condo-now-or-wait-for-prices-to-fall/article11987309/

#89 beach girl on 05.21.13 at 8:37 am

I owned a few apartments at one time. Had a hard time getting the financing. Was going out on a limb, 2002. Got out of that, in 2007. Still kept the duplexes. Dealt with a mortgage broker, as my bank Manager at TD who looked to be about 16 turned me down. 43, single mom, efficient business, tons of equity. Lots of RRSPs for my age. I vowed to never deal with them for anything important.

RBC gives me $400,000 right of the bat, interest only, major low rates. Don’t need the Mortgage Broker now. It worked for me, because of the timing. Lucky to be in the right place, right time.

I like RBC, so they dumped some people, happens everyday. I had a computer contract job from LexisNexis, it went to India after 25 years. They can do it cheaper. Fact.

_____

Like this

#27 Yuus bin Haad on 05.20.13 at 9:38 pm

“because anything goes, nothing matters, and nobody cares.” (Jim Kunstler)

“It’s every man for himself …” (a bunch of people)

#90 bigrider on 05.21.13 at 8:47 am

Pierre Arsenault ? That is not an Italian name by any chance.

I’m surprised they didn’t get Guido Cagalasagna to formulate the response.

#91 jjpetes on 05.21.13 at 8:52 am

RBC: “honest and ethical behaviour,”

Describing banks? Good one dad

#92 cramar on 05.21.13 at 8:52 am

Pierre Arsenault is a rank amateur at spin control. RBC must have hired chaff because all the wheat had been taken.

#93 AK on 05.21.13 at 8:55 am

Is It Better to Buy or Rent?

Buying vs Renting

#94 frank le skank on 05.21.13 at 8:59 am

Canadian Mortgage Trends just jumped on the “sh1t on renters bandwagon” and posted an article on how the new mortgage rules are helping to fuel rents.

#95 Raging Ranter on 05.21.13 at 9:46 am

If you want to see something really funny, look at this mortgage calculator from Scotiabank:

http://cgi.scotiabank.com/mortgage/Scotiabank-LTSB-English.html

Notice anything? They include an entry for Anticipated annual home value increase.

I searched in vain for the Anticipated home value depreciation adjustment, but could not find it. I guess that’s because houses always go up. Don’t they?

#96 Daisy Mae on 05.21.13 at 9:48 am

RBC and their ‘Finance Tracker’ — Do you know where your money’s going? When you know how you’re spending, it’s easier to manage your money and save.

Once you link your accounts to RBC Financial Planning Centre MoneyCenter, you can see a complete snapshot of your expenses by category.

Click on the Spending Reports tab and you’ll immediately see all your expenses clearly separated in a spending pie chart:
• Rent
• Groceries
• Gas
• Dining
• Entertainment
• Car expenses
Link your accounts to myFinanceTracker, and stay in control of your spending.

******************

As soon as customers are lured, RBC can glean alot of personal info about their customers goals, spending habits, with this ‘Finance Tracker’. Just download the tabs, complete the forms, and bare it all.

#97 thiscountryisgoing down the toilet on 05.21.13 at 9:55 am

Obviously the RBC is relying on the old saw that buying a house and paying it off is a nessecary evil because a majority of people have no disciple to save over the long term…….in reality this is true.

Yes of course a lot of half baked smarty pants types will point out the fallacies and how much better if you could only invest like Buffet….but the fact is that fungible assets burn a hole in most peoples pockets and they’d end up without a pot to pee in if left to their own devices.

Canadians have been kept financially, socially and politically ignorant for a great variety of reasons…….the great social engineers of the 70’s 80’s were most egregious in these terms.

Of course people should be more financially literate…but are they…….no!! So…the bank is espousing a system of saving that helps people overcome their basic greed and susceptibility to be coerced by advertising…..towards some kind of savings over time.

#98 Mr. Frugal on 05.21.13 at 10:00 am

You know the end is near when they have to make up stupid ads like this to try convince half-wits to buy over-priced houses they can’t afford. I think the fat lady is heading for the microphone. Don’t know what song she will sing, but I bet it’s going to be loud!

#99 Frank le skank on 05.21.13 at 10:01 am

All the pro-real estate cartels have jumped on the bandwagon and have committed to trashing renters. They all know that I won’t be difficult to convince the public because it will provide them with a false sense of security and allow them to live in their delusion for a little while longer.

#100 Rational Optimist on 05.21.13 at 10:05 am

#83 Ralph Cramdown on 05.21.13 at 7:23 am

And they accepted your repayment without problems before the 6-month interest-free period was over?

#101 Ozy - not banks fault on 05.21.13 at 10:13 am

Ozy – is not banks fault that consumers are so gullible in Canada

I would blame the education from family. I will not blame the school system, the government or the banks and other organization that do what they are there for: reap the unsuspecting

IN THIS AGE AND TIME I BLAME THE UNSUSPECTING

#102 Daisy Mae on 05.21.13 at 10:15 am

#39wallflower: “per say” Serious? A bank employee typed and sent this?

Wurd fer wurd. — Garth

***************

I caught that, too. And just shook my head…. LOL

#103 Post Haste on 05.21.13 at 10:18 am

I bet a few well known in-house legal experts at RBC probably picked at all the legal issues that could come up before they placed that ad – I doubt a lowly clerk just went ahead and placed the ad.

Why such an uproar with banks, the number one focus is shareholders, maximize the profits at any “legal” cost. There was a recent piece on tv regarding how dentists are charging for work that doesn’t need to be done. Today everyone is out for themselves – the “me” attitude is now ingrained in our society – sounding shocked is being blind to reality -

#104 Keith in Calgary on 05.21.13 at 10:23 am

The aforementioned RBC advertisement has enough ethical and mathematical holes in it, which are large enough for me to drive a Brinks truck thru.

In fact, it could be the same Brinks truck that is carrying my accumulated decade worth of investments that I recently cashed out (which, incidentally, was generated by SAVING the difference between RENTING and BUYING).

ROTFLMAO !!!!

I have never seen such blatant misrepresentation and outright lying except when related to real estate industry advertising. The last great “unregulated” frontier……..

#105 Standard Deviation on 05.21.13 at 10:35 am

At the end of the day the government and our institutions want us all fat and happy, in debt and compliant. Whether through debt, family obligations, or circumstances. Desperate people and fat and happy people don’t cause problems; they simply behave themselves and do as they are told. RBC would be one such institution.

#106 Tony on 05.21.13 at 10:40 am

Re: #94 AK on 05.21.13 at 8:55 am

What i’m seeing is the “dead cat bounce” in American real estate is over and the next leg will be downward. It still makes sense to be a renter in America.

#107 fancy_pants on 05.21.13 at 10:41 am

Sending a resume to a very large particular Canadian bank?

try these catch phrases for a leg up on the competition:
deceptive
delusive
manipulative
seductive

Past experience also has revealed to particular folks it is better to have double D cup size than a B. Comm degree.

Nothing falsified and no biased opinion here. Some of the suggested terms aren’t reflective of all personalities and they will never be and some have landed jobs with C cups. The entire advertisement is based on a particular client.

bye bye, have a nice day.

#108 rosie "moving forward" on 05.21.13 at 10:47 am

See, the Star cares, the developers care and the city cares. Just look at the good work they are all doing to help the menial class. I wonder if RBC is secretly involved as well. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/21/condos_becoming_part_of_torontos_affordable_housing_tool_box.html

#109 Cowpoke on 05.21.13 at 10:48 am

This is what happens when you give someone too much power over ‘lame’ public thinking. There is too much concentration of power in this country and they tend to abuse it with out consequence. This is fundamentally wrong.

#110 Ralph Cramdown on 05.21.13 at 10:59 am

#101 Rational Optimist — “And they accepted your repayment without problems before the 6-month interest-free period was over?”

Yes. We got the funds June 23, the monthly statements indicated that the “conversion date” (to a LOC from a CC balance) was February 4, and we paid the entire amount by cheque at a branch on January 25th.

#111 Mister Obvious on 05.21.13 at 11:20 am

#98 thiscountryisgoing down the toilet

”Of course people should be more financially literate…but are they…….no!! So…the bank is espousing a system of saving that helps people overcome their basic greed and susceptibility to be coerced by advertising…..towards some kind of savings over time.”
———————————–

Here’s a rewrite of the above to reflect reality…

“Of course people should be more financially literate…but, fortunately for us banks, they are not. This allows us to capture huge profits convincing innumerate people they are investing in their futures when in fact, they are only renting money from us to purchase homes with prices speculated far beyond their personal means.”

#112 Piccaso on 05.21.13 at 11:26 am

Gold ETFs Are Liquidating By the Ton

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/gold-etfs-liquidating-ton-112206437.html?vp=1

#113 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO on 05.21.13 at 11:49 am

re: Devore #86 reply:
How is that criminal? Is Gillette criminal too?

Buy a quality printer from a quality company, and you can keep on refilling your cartridges.

How would you like it if you could only buy Shell Gas with GM Cars and with Ford you could only purchase Esso Gas. because the nozzle size is different?

Think for a minute!

#114 Rational Optimist on 05.21.13 at 11:54 am

#111 Ralph Cramdown on 05.21.13 at 10:59 am

Neat. Then why not? Great idea, and if they give you $40,000, it would be a pretty easy five hundred bucks in one of the savings account promotions on right now.

One very nit-picky point: on the application online, the form asks for type of project (Bathroom Renovation, General Home Improvement, Kitchen Renovation, Landscaping, Pool, Wedding- all of the usual suspects, I guess). Some of them, if selected, ask you for a further description. If you borrow money from RBC on a promotion, saying that you intend to have a pool dug, and then sock it away instead, is that not in some sense fraud? I understand that the risk here is less than minimal.

#115 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 11:58 am

Banks make me nervous with credit cards, and went on Saturday to buy a new tv for my residence office, and the charge came back – refused, so used another as was short of cash. Today went to the TD for cash, and said check my credit card status; he said balance owing nil, and status is AAA, so may have been the pin number. I write them all done on an index card, and there was no mistake. Lesson learned: Cash is King!

#116 Tony Right on 05.21.13 at 12:04 pm

Corporations will just spend their money to make 2 + 2 = 5. No wonder Americans like William Howard Taft were warning the American people about corporatism and all its evils over a 100 years ago! Well, corporatism has won. And just look how pathetic it is.

#117 jess on 05.21.13 at 12:07 pm

71 Tom from Mississauga

tax engineering nondoms
what’s not to like pay little tax , get gov. grants,
import cheap labor that is the international way!
“It has created offshore entities holding tens of billions of dollars while claiming to be tax resident nowhere.”

look back
Tax Benefits from Public Agencies – defeased leases Inflated Equipment Values Based on “Loop Debt”
On August 6, 2008, the IRS issued letters to forty five companies involved in SILO and
LILO transactions, offering them certain concessions if they terminated the deals before
the end of the year.
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/20100910Exhibits16-29.pdf
Defeased Leases

=
Lawsuits against two large disability insurers have called into question a nearly universal practice in the long-term disability insurance industry: Most long-term disability policies require claimants to request Social Security disability benefits and reduce the insurer?

http://completedefeasance.wordpress.com/2008/04/04/disability-insurers-sued-for-robbing-social-security/
http://tortburger.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/whistleblower-suit-filed-against-disability-insurers/
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/first_unum.html
•Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) sent a letter to Unum and eight other private disability insurers asking for detailed information about the very practices that have now been deemed illegal.
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=19961
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNGxonsgwz3A
=======
10/8 Insurance
http://www.moneysense.ca/2013/03/26/108-insurance-get-out-while-you-still-can/
=====
pay little tax and get gov. grant outsource for lower wage SWEET!
Apple uses companies outside U.S. to avoid paying billions in U.S. taxes, Senate inquiry finds
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/may/15/amazon-tax-bill-new-questions

#118 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO on 05.21.13 at 12:08 pm

#86 Devore

Maybe you would better understand by the analogy of Locked Cell phones, forcing you to stay with a certain company or you have to throw away the phone.
BTW in Europe, due to environmental concerns all printer cartidges are refillable. Why are we filling up our landfills with plastic cartridges that are perfectly useful?
So the Printer companies can get rich quick. Thats why.
There are hundreds of examples of Companies who don’t play fair and the Government does nothing to protect the (peasant) consumer.
At least in the auto industry you can purchase after market parts for almost any car. That is free competition.
The printer companies also have after market competition but there is an added cost at factory level of about $1 to $2 dollars to pay for the unnecessary chip to be added to the cartridge.
Canon also programs time outs on the printers themselves to show error codes and stop working after a certain number of pages. Most people give up and buy a new printer. Only the most determined will find the error code reset codes, like the unlock codes on cell phones to keep their products working.
What a farce we put up with.

#119 Alex N Calgary on 05.21.13 at 12:15 pm

Since when did companies have to become ethical with optional decisions for people? Its not like RBC is forcing 6yr olds to work as bank tellers for 5$ an hr, oh sure they are not providing anywhere close to the whole picture here, but its really the consumer who should be researching major financial decisions and being aware. I thought it was pretty normal to have a healthy distrust of banks, and most people know they make a TON of profit, that was especially highlighted in the crash in 07′ with US banks.

Ultimatly its going to take the rest of the economy with them, but its the Gov. who should be ethically regulating this problem, not RBC. House Horny and too lazy to read the internet and Do math is going to be the King for a long time. Maybe with a prolonged recession people will return to skepticism and remembering to research to-good-to-be-trues before commiting.

#120 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO on 05.21.13 at 12:16 pm

#86 Devore
Re Giliette,
Gillette does nothing to stop a competitor from making a competing Blade. There are no Electronic Blade fryers after 20 shaves.
Just no one finds a profit margin in aftermarket Blades so far.
I am happy to pay Gillette for a great product. I can easily switch to Shick if I like with little cost.

#121 Herb on 05.21.13 at 12:23 pm

Gee, Garth, does this mean that we can use the term “banksters” again without getting a tongue-lashing?

#122 Wilbur on 05.21.13 at 12:37 pm

Garth,
as we have been enjoying the rally of the DOW, what are your thoughts on a correction coming? Nothing can continue to go up forever… I feel that we could see the DOW drop in the near future as it has been riding a huge wave since about October 2012…
Do you think if one is sitting on a bit of cash they should wait to invest it as a correction is coming?
What do you think about QE?

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/stock-markets/uk/how-long-can-stock-markets-continue-to-boom-64000

#123 NoName on 05.21.13 at 12:42 pm

I think that RBC in on to something here they managed to introduce us to imaginery numbers in a simple way. They call it equity. Seems that rbc article also incorporates quadratic formula ax^2+bx+c=0.

http://tinypic.com/r/6f79de/5

#124 VT on 05.21.13 at 12:46 pm

If you want to help this issue with RBC to go viral and you use twitter then just copy, paste and tweet the message below:

Dear @RBC, are you misleading #Canada about #RealEstate? >>> http://tinyurl.com/k6smqvr <<< #RoyalBank #mortgage #FINA #GordNixon #RBCRewards

#125 jess on 05.21.13 at 12:47 pm

investors found out the hard way

Luxembourg versus Ireland: tax havens competing to be more rotten than each other

http://treasureislands.org/luxembourg-versus-ireland-tax-havens-competing-to-be-more-rotten-than-each-other/

#126 Ogopogo on 05.21.13 at 12:51 pm

Another nail in the coffin of the “buy buy buy!” crowd. Read it and weep, real estate cultists, shills and RBC con men:

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/05/18/if-there-was-a-battle-between-stocks-and-real-estate-stocks-win/?__lsa=634a-966e&fp=done

#127 Mister Obvious on 05.21.13 at 12:53 pm

#85 maxx

The lady at the bank may in fact be ‘nice’, but probably not much of a student of the methodologies of her own employer.

Before 28 years was up you’d think she might have caught on that the first order of business is shareholder profit. Employee satisfaction and security sit quite a few rungs down on the corporate priority list.

Armed with that knowledge in the late 1980’s (around the time she joined) she could have begun buying income generating preferred shares in her own organization as well as those of competitors.

By 1989 she would have had access to books such as The Wealthy Barber which were offering sage advice like: “wealth flows from savings, not from income”.

With her valuable ‘insider’ knowledge of how the system really works she would have been in an ideal position to shield herself from the potential of future corporate cold-hearted indifference.

In a nutshell, she could have made hay while the sun was shining. After 28 years she could have built up a healthy reserve of ‘screw you’ money.

But alas… it was not to be.

#128 AK on 05.21.13 at 12:53 pm

#107 Tony on 05.21.13 at 10:40 am
Re: #94 AK on 05.21.13 at 8:55 am

What i’m seeing is the “dead cat bounce” in American real estate is over and the next leg will be downward. It still makes sense to be a renter in America.
——————————————————————–
Hey Tony,

You are correct. Many Americans have no choice but to rent. Since the GFC of 2008, U.S. Banks require a sizeable down payment in order to qualify a mortgage.

What do you think about Jeremy Siegel’s Dow 17,000 In 2013?
Geez, Jeremy is more bullish than I am. :-)

Jeremy Siegel: Dow 17,000 In 2013

#129 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 1:13 pm

Now will tell you the real secret about the ink refills, as my cousin was a top IT expert in KW who taught computer science at the highest levels. The old ones from the mid 1990’s would last forever on the printers, and here is what happened. The corporations changed the formula for the ink years later with not only a smaller size, but were time dated to gel, for you to buy a new one.

#130 Angry But Not Unhappy Twenty Something on 05.21.13 at 1:34 pm

Yes – banks are evil. Banks are also businesses whose intent is to make money.

In my naive, inexperienced and humble opinion – pointing the finger at the evil corporation is an easy way to dismiss your own personal accountability.
The bank can’t (always) be the bad guy when they approve you for too much and at the same time be the bad guy when they deny you the mortgage. At what point does someone look in the mirror?

#131 Julie on 05.21.13 at 1:36 pm

Khasikstan has VISA debit cards that work at Point of Sale machines around the world. RBC does not. Its embarrasing. The only reason we bank there is because of the global business banking we do…….but the services (they don’t offer) suck big time…..

#132 Netcentric on 05.21.13 at 1:51 pm

It would be nice if some mainstream media channel picked this up and ran with a heading like, “RBC Preying On Young Canadians” or something like that that tells it like it is. Too bad they can’t though because they would lose advertising revenue. Disgusting, shameful and disappointing all around.

Thank you for what you do Garth. I think you are one of the countries best journalists.

#133 Squatter on 05.21.13 at 2:32 pm

Once I saw a news release that said RBC was giving $25000 to a charity. I was struck how the amount was small for such a huge bank. Not worth a news release at all.

#134 Canadian Watchdog on 05.21.13 at 2:46 pm

Industry calls for changes to Ontario Building Code that will result in safe, affordable homes for GTA residents

The changes, endorsed by City of Toronto's Chief Building Official and Chief Planner and similar to those made in British Columbia, will allow woodframe construction of buildings up to six storeys, resulting in the creation of more safe and affordable homes for residents across the GTA.

You bet BILD. Because now that iron beams are getting too expensive and townhomes and condos can't be shrunk any smaller then a prison cell to make homes more affordable — the next best 'safe' solution is to cut structure costs by using (once again) flammable materials.

Same routine as always: 

1) Unelected Agenda 21 muppets from Canadian universities write some bogus working paper as evidence.

2) Pay off politicians to allow laws to pass.

3) Build homes from crap and reap profits from home buyers.

4) Repeat steps 1-3.

#135 Spiltbongwater on 05.21.13 at 2:48 pm

I pay RBC $4 per month just to have a savings account that my mortgage is drawn out from. I really love hearing of the record profits the banks make, when they charge for such things. I was told that if I got an RBC credit card the fee would be waived.

TD once chaged $5 currency conversion fee for buying Euros. This pissed me off as I have no problem paying such a fee if they are converting the money at market rate. The fact that I was paying them $35 dollars above market rate for my transaction left me pissed.

#136 Devore on 05.21.13 at 3:08 pm

#119 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO

Maybe you would better understand by the analogy of Locked Cell phones, forcing you to stay with a certain company or you have to throw away the phone.

I understand fine. No analogy required. All these things you talk about would cease to exist overnight if people stopped buying them. You rewarded the creation of a crappy product when you bought it, then wonder why they keep bringing more?

You can take this, and use it as an analogy for pretty much everything else “we” put up with. I put “we” in quotes, because I boycott crap, bought a solid printer that uses refillable cartridges, so I don’t have to put up with that nonsense and can get on with my life, instead of getting upset over it on an internet forum.

But so much easier to blame evil, greedy corporations.

#137 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 3:22 pm

I have an RBC personal bank account, and have no charges for cheques or anything, so am I getting a free ride? I love RBC, as it is my slush fund for cash coming and going, but always keep a balance for them at $100 net at all times as a good and faithful customer. :)

#138 John on 05.21.13 at 3:27 pm

#58

Does your data on govt debt include all the various crown corps? Thanks in advance.

#139 Pulp Faction (Dorf) on 05.21.13 at 3:42 pm

I would be interested to know if Gord Nixon responds.

I am told that he responds to nothing and if something does require a response, staff respond for him. (lawyers)

Many speculate that he’s actually been dead for years, embalmed and placed in his chair.

#140 Rabbit-One on 05.21.13 at 3:47 pm

Ink refills.
I was first so surprised that Canadian consumer products are lacking “refill” options when I first immigrated here.
In Asia, Europe, even in U.S. there are many detergent, cosmetics have refills in flattable plastic, normally 30~40% cheaper than full plastic container options.
Many conscious consumer won’t buy products that doesn’t come with refill line options.
Refill option apprently reduce waste as well as shipping cost & gas.

My guess why Canada has no refill, is because of small population, and also company can keep charing whatever they can with full container, consumer has no other options, or worse no education, they won’t bother.

I saw one of the ‘environmentally friendly’ cosmetic company offer hand soap refill bottle.
But surprisingly in same large non flattable plastic container, no discount price.
Who bother….?

#141 Ronaldo on 05.21.13 at 3:56 pm

#99 Mr. Frugal –

”I think the fat lady is heading for the microphone. Don’t know what song she will sing, but I bet it’s going to be loud!”

Probably, “It’s Now Or Never”.

#142 John Prine on 05.21.13 at 4:04 pm

Here is what one can do if you belong to a credit union. A little corrupt here but at least members do have a say.

http://www.timescolonist.com/business/coast-capital-savings-members-force-cut-to-directors-pay-1.191373

#143 Ronaldo on 05.21.13 at 4:07 pm

#104 Post Haste –

”There was a recent piece on tv regarding how dentists are charging for work that doesn’t need to be done.”

And this will become more so as companies continue to eliminate these high cost benefits for newer employees.

Dentists of the future had better not expect to make the same as those who practised in the last 25 years.

I’ve noticed that things are rather slow around my dentists office every time I visit which is a couple times a year. He is bound and determined that I should bridge the lower gaps where my molars were yanked out back when I was about 9 years old. Have to keep reminding him that I am no longer on a plan since I retired plus have done without bridges now for 58 years and will likely be able to manage a while longer.

#144 Smoking Man on 05.21.13 at 4:12 pm

So what Banks nickel and dime you..

Insurance companies specialty auto.. Slam you to the cement, spit on you, deficate on your head, and expect you to say thank you.

Can always go to a credit union.. Auto insurance in Ontario, your screwed

#145 Dr. Hoof - Hearted on 05.21.13 at 4:15 pm

Watching this documentary of how Bank of Scotland went down

One quote: When a firm builds it own building..has its own fountain and flag ……and buys a Lear jet..time to sell the shares.

#146 jess on 05.21.13 at 4:21 pm

The installment loan industry – egregious!
http://www.propublica.org/article/installment-loans-world-finance

#147 Spiltbongwater on 05.21.13 at 4:24 pm

#138 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 3:22 pm

You are getting a free ride. I take it you are a senior. If I was 65 or older RBC would give me a free ride as well. Just more of the younger generation looking after the geezers by paying for their freight through life. I wish they would all hurry up and die, so I don’t have to subsidize their bus rides, ferry rides, bank accounts, meals at Denny’s etc.

#148 gord nixon on 05.21.13 at 4:34 pm

I would love to see the response fron gord….. garth could you please share that with us if he really replies?

#149 what crisis? on 05.21.13 at 5:06 pm

That “unethical behaviour” of the banks (financial groups) only indicates that there is no enough “pie” for all of them anymore. It should not be a surprise having economic growth practically at negligible level. Austerity measures for the banks? – it is not even funny. They will steal a piece out of your throat when their profit is involved. The competition among them is getting stronger and, it’s now obvious – political groups are involved. Finance minister behaves himself miserably, he is begging, crying for 25 year amortization. Why that shame is happening? When he has all the authority to order. (By the way I received a call yesterday from a mortgage broker and after 5 min of conversation he offered me a mortgage with 35 years of amortization if I put 20% down.) Shortly speaking, the situation is much more complicated that it appears on the surface. Having all that how can we predict a normal course of things when interest rate duly increases and prolonged amortization period gets banned?

#150 Herb on 05.21.13 at 5:10 pm

#137 Devore,

that’s great capitalist theory, but what happens if people don’t have a choice, if all the oil companies and printer manufacturers, for instance, do the same thing?

I have a Brother and a Canon printer, and not the cheapest of either brand. What should I have bought?

#151 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 5:31 pm

I now know there is no fool like an old fool, as loved my old 14″ TV, but when it was shutting down on me mean’t it was was over heating. So had to spring for a LED of 19″ for a base price of $143.99, and was too big for my office. Ok, this babe is loaded with everything so put it together, and the basic programming was a joke, as it has lots more.

I am in an utter state of shock, as have channels now that never knew ever existed, and Rogers never told me about this all, but they will take almost $2,000 a year from my pocket with the internet and TV gig, so tomorrow must adjust all, as am surrounded with wires and stuff including the Armour shredder for much to hide. :)

#152 sickofbc on 05.21.13 at 5:38 pm

Find and Flip events coming to B.C. this week just in time teach the good people of Vancouver how to flip houses and get rich. sign me up , i’m poor .

http://www.findandflipevent.com/facebook2/index.asp?Contact0State=BC&cluster=CW1+FB

#153 StockMaster on 05.21.13 at 6:12 pm

I love all these realtards and RE pumpers still saying you have to buy a house or condo to make money. Ive doubled my stock portfolio this year playing Options mainly and laughing at all these fools buying RE in this topped out bubble market. Here’s some examples of stocks ive made 300% – 1000% returns on in a matter of weeks. You can do the same still , lots of room in this BULL MARKET. Forget real estate folks.

LONG:

GOOGLE
OPEN
BAIDU
TSLA
SCTY
PRICELINE
LULU
WHOLE FOODS

SHORT:

SLV (Silver)
GLD (Gold)

#154 Chickenburger on 05.21.13 at 6:12 pm

Coho on 05.20.13 at 11:05 pm:

I agree with you. I have enough redneck in me to appreciate how some of them feel, especially with a nutcase in office like they have. That is probably why I don’t like him: he is not American enough!

The world is going to hell in a handbasket. With schools brainwashing kids from an early age ( I have seen this with my own eyes!), to people getting themselves so indebted to big corporations, who knows what the next few years will be like!

(My brainwashing example involves a teacher encouraging children to tell their parents that they didn’t like the food their parents were packing in their lunch. Her advice? Tell Mommy and Daddy that you won’t eat your lunch if they give you that again. This in a poor neighbourhood of Toronto where the kids were lucky to get a lunch at all! Learning to disrespect your parents right from Kindergarten. Way to go TDSB!)

#155 Pulp Faction (Dorf) on 05.21.13 at 6:23 pm

Does Pierre Arsenault have a post-secondary education ? If so, he masks it very well.

#156 Canadian Watchdog on 05.21.13 at 6:24 pm

OSFI data for March.

Domestic Chartered Bank Loans. YoY

HELOCs +3%
HELOC Business -27% y/y. (major OSFI revision)
i) Insured Residential Mortgage Loans +3.1%
ii) of which Pooled and Unsold +40.1% (<<< subprime time bombs ready for CMHC)
Uninsured Residential Mortgage Loans +9.7%
Total Insured and Uninsured +5.8%

Nothing new here. As long as banks and CMHC can avoid MTM on assets while the barkless watchdog OSFI looks the other way (as told by the banks), everything is good.

#157 frank le skank on 05.21.13 at 6:38 pm

#148 Spiltbongwater on 05.21.13 at 4:24 pm
that was harsh!

#158 Carney on 05.21.13 at 6:55 pm

“Peter Hadekel: Carney leaves behind a stellar legacy”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Peter+Hadekel+Carney+leaves+behind+stellar+legacy/8415683/story.html#ixzz2TyF2znGA

What a joke.

#159 bill on 05.21.13 at 7:19 pm

Nixon eh?
george macdonald fraser wrote a book called ‘the steel bonnets’
it has an interesting ‘whos feuding with who’
foldout.
it seems the riding families and clans all had their knives out for the nixons….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Reivers
keep your back to the wall ,dont drink or eat anything they would offer you and leave early during daylight hours.

#160 bill on 05.21.13 at 7:22 pm

and the curse .I forgot the curse….
the Archbishop of Glasgow, Gavin Dunbar, put a curse up all the reivers of the borderlands.

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2013/05/20/duty-of-care/comment-page-4/#comment-242932

#161 Tom Vu on 05.21.13 at 7:32 pm

#144 Ronaldo on 05.21.13 at 4:07 pm

#104 Post Haste –

”There was a recent piece on tv regarding how dentists are charging for work that doesn’t need to be done.”

=================================

Not ever understand this.

MD go to school to cover 99.9% of body.
Why not teeth?

Dentists cover 32 small body parts each more or less the same. All do is clean, drill , fill and bill.

I call BS !

#162 Asse on 05.21.13 at 7:40 pm

To continue withe the theme of the day:
-Arsenault has never thrown a punch,ever.
-Arsenault does not discriminate, learned much to be explained another day
-Arsenault is good to those who need, no excuses.
-Arsenault does no illegal and barely any legal drugs, ever.
-Arsenaults drug of choice is a child’s eyes.. They hidenothing and it’s so easy to make them shine with joy.
Much more my friends but no time…….time for a child’s eyes.

#163 Canadian Watchdog on 05.21.13 at 7:52 pm

Tuesday humor

Brokers taking on the mantle of money managers   

More and more industry professionals are becoming informal investment advisers in addition to brokering, helping clients better balance their lifestyles and finances.

 “I always discuss giving up little things to help pay off clients mortgages faster,” says Scott Dawson, with Verico Paragon Pacific Mortgages. “It puts things into perspective when you can compare it to something they spend money on almost every day – like your morning coffee.”
 
One such family, the Sharanewychs of Toronto, unilaterally decided to cut back on their entertainment expenses to help pay off their mortgage debt in 14 years instead of 25. The two teenage boys – featured in the Toronto Star last week – agreed to give up hockey and save $10,000 a year.

[Apparently hockey is considered entertainment, not a sport to brokers.]
 
Not going on luxury vacations, shopping trips and deciding to watch Netflix movies at home instead of first-run shows at the theatre were all part of an overall strategy by the Sharanewych family to shave 11 years and $55,000 in interest off of their mortgage.
 
The family had appeared on the now defunct W Network reality show “Burn My Mortgage” in 2010, when they took on an accelerated mortgage and released the details of their finances, so as to better cut costs and live more economically.
 
I created a blog post about how skipping the morning Starbucks can pay down your mortgage faster,” says Dawson. “I send that link to most of my clients. I find that once you break down the numbers for them into something simple it really hits home.
 
In his blog, Dawson cites an ING Direct survey that shows only half of Canadians were able to put away an extra $25 a week – not realizing that some people making their daily trip to Starbucks are easily spending $5 or more on the luxury of a cup of coffee.
 
“By forgoing the morning coffee each weekday and saving $5 instead, you would save an extra $25 a week and put an extra $1,300 into your mortgage,” Dawson points out.
 
On a $250,000 mortgage with a 4.5 per cent interest rate amortized over 25 years, that savings can allow a homeowner to pay off their loan 11 years and nine months earlier, and save $72,496.91.

—–

What's interesting is that brokers seem to be claiming that this advice is good enough to call themselves money managers, when according to a RECO poll last year, Ontarians were already self-sacrificing entertainment and vacations for home ownership.

October 10, 2012 (Toronto, ON) – A poll released today by the Real Estate Council of Ontario (RECO) reveals
that nearly two-thirds of Ontarians (65 per cent) have made sacrifices when saving for the purchase of a home.   
 
The top areas for cutting back spending include entertainment (70 per cent), vacations (69 per cent) and
electronic goods (51 percent). Respondents also mentioned clothing, transportation, groceries and dining out as other expenses they trimmed when saving towards a home.
The poll was hosted on the Angus Reid Forum.

Way to go brokers. You gave everyone a mortgage they couldn't afford, now you're telling them to cut down on life in order to afford [your commissions] mortgage payments. I find it ironic how brokers go around kicking and screaming because banks' mortgage agents or specialists call themselves mortgage brokers; now it's brokers calling themselves money managers. If you were a money manager, they wouldn't be broke.

#164 Daisy Mae on 05.21.13 at 8:04 pm

#137 Devore: “All these things you talk about would cease to exist overnight if people stopped buying them….”

********************

We consumers DO have the ‘power’.

We CAN boycott….anything we please.

#165 Daisy Mae on 05.21.13 at 8:13 pm

…and speaking of greed, our service stations in the Okanagan have jacked up the price of gas to $141.9 for the long weekend. Today I put in $10 just to get me from here to there. :-)

#166 a prairie dawg on 05.21.13 at 8:17 pm

I’m sending this to Gord Nixon. – Garth

– — –

Thanks Garth. They don’t seem to listen to customers anymore. But maybe they’ll listen to you.

#167 Nemesis on 05.21.13 at 8:27 pm

@CanadianWatchdog#164

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift

I spent all day yesterday and today doing UnorthodoxMicroWork in the field… it’s worse than even than I thought. Far worse.

#168 Tom Vu on 05.21.13 at 8:38 pm

#152 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 5:31 pm

I now know there is no fool like an old fool, as loved my old 14″ TV, but when it was shutting down on me mean’t it was was over heating. So had to spring for a LED of 19″ for a base price of $143.99, and was too big for my office. Ok, this babe is loaded with everything so put it together, and the basic programming was a joke, as it has lots more.

=====================================

Old Man

Follow these visual directions before too late and rot mind !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr-J1Sw_auU

Hope not too late !!!! call 9-11 (or change channel )

#169 Asse on 05.21.13 at 8:49 pm

Revised..I smoke just like our old man, but not the funny stuff.

#170 Kilby on 05.21.13 at 9:06 pm

#166 Daisy Mae on 05.21.13 at 8:13 pm
…and speaking of greed, our service stations in the Okanagan have jacked up the price of gas to $141.9 for the long weekend. Today I put in $10 just to get me from here to there. :-)
*********************************************
Wish we could get it together enough to do the 1 day a week boycott of gas that gets bandied about but never seems to work. :-(

#171 Old Man on 05.21.13 at 9:11 pm

#169 Tom Vu – Imao, have a pile of computer junk that need to dump, as need to clean out my residence; tell nobody as am going to do a bit at a time late at night, as have 17 years of stuff that needs to go one way or another, and the old TV goes first. :)

#172 bill on 05.21.13 at 9:11 pm

Hi Garth
did I not get the right link or was the curse a little to ..ah strong?
I have the right link now [I think]
may I?

#173 Herb on 05.21.13 at 9:18 pm

#166 Daisy Mae,

limiting your purchase to $10 won’t make much of an impression on the oil industry because they know you’ll have to come back to the same limited sources before long.

A meaningful boycott would be to stop buying gas at all until you’re happy with prices and procedures (such as not raising prices for the same gas in the same storage tanks before holidays). But how do you do that, given our geography and lack of alternate means of transportation? The consumer’s choice boils down to pay what they charge, or immobility.

#174 bill on 05.21.13 at 9:22 pm

the curse on the border reivers….and the nixons would be included for sure…not to mention armstrongs and ridleys etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/features/2003/07/restoration/the_curse.shtml

#175 Canadian Watchdog on 05.21.13 at 9:42 pm

#129 AK

You are correct. Many Americans have no choice but to rent.

Not true. People will end up economizing the way central banks don't want them to, i.e., kids staying at home, more roommates, throw grandma in the basement, less divorces, etc. People can adapt to a lower standard of living faster then they can commit to unaffordable conditions. Assuming everyone will rent is a big mistake.

#139 John

Does your data on govt debt include all the various crown corps? Thanks in advance.

It should/does to some extent. Although the federal government and crowns do tend to keep some debt off balance sheets via derivatives. The real juggernaut is provincial debt anyways.

#168 Nemesis

I spent all day yesterday and today doing UnorthodoxMicroWork in the field… it’s worse than even than I thought. Far worse.

Even Keynes couldn't have imagined today's reckless central bank policy set to destroy savers. He stated many times in his papers that government stimulus could only be used during recessions for a period of time, not forever to scare investors into stocks. That's complete madness, yet we're doing it.

#176 Snowboid on 05.21.13 at 10:37 pm

#166 Daisy Mae on 05.21.13 at 8:13 pm…

It’s up in Phoenix to .88 a litre – wow!

So, a fill costs us over $ 40 more in Kelowna – we just walk and cycle when possible and make a tank last two months.

It’s certainly not fair to those who truly need their vehicles every day, commuting or as part of their job.

Not to mention the extra transportation costs added to everything else that we buy.

The irony was within the same newspaper last week was the announcement that inflation was down, mainly due to lower fuel prices – and another story lamenting the jump to nearly 1.42 a litre!

#177 SCIBIDUBADEBUMBADO on 05.22.13 at 12:13 am

#73 Victoria
RBC is way over the top in robotizing their employees. They cannot do anything that the computer does not allow. They cannot complete any transaction without filling in the computer blank the way it is programmed. There is no room for grey. Only Black and White.
I went there once to pay a Shipping company $35.00 in US funds.
They would not let me buy $35.00 in US Funds because of Money laundering laws. (Actually it was just the supervisors own law in her head). I had to go out of the Bank, across the street to a private money changer, buy the $35.00 in Us Funds and then take it to the Royal Bank and put it in the account of my supplier.
These people are dangerous to our personal freedom.

#178 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 05.22.13 at 12:01 pm

#59 Smoking Man on 05.21.13 at 11:32 pm
never seen so many people worried about virgins and property owners…..Ha
Lets be honest you don’t give a flying F about them.
You Wana vultch, want to be a some one, a priced home owner, up you level on the status level….problem track6ers are not co-operating.
Told ya. Never bet against the smoking man, what 4 or five years of perfect pics.
Your teachers did you in……

Geez Smoking Man get some anger management assistance, it appears that you hate everyone. Live and let live dude. Perhaps your foray into Atlantic City wasn’t as fortuitous as you had hoped? Next time try Vegas with some sun and fun. You’re playing the market my friend some you win, and some your lose.

#179 Holy Crap Wheres The Tylenol on 05.22.13 at 12:06 pm

#175 bill on 05.21.13 at 9:22 pm

the curse on the border reivers….and the nixons would be included for sure…not to mention armstrongs and ridleys etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/features/2003/07/restoration/the_curse.shtm

I recall watching The Reivers with Steve McQueen back in 1969. Good analogy to this.