Planning

Before

after

A dirty little secret is just how badly off most Baby Boomers are. The majority have no corporate pensions and more than half no organized retirement savings. Granted, Canadian Boomers are better off than their US counterparts, where two-thirds don’t have $25,000 tucked away. But the prognosis ain’t good. If you’re a Boomer’s kid waiting for a pot of cash, I have bad news.

Some weeks ago a BMO survey found 40% “are not confident” they’ll have enough money to retire. This sucks when you’re five or ten years from the end of your best-before date, and usually reflects a life in which most people spent what they earned, were financial illiterates, and put most of their money into houses.

About a third of Boomers will, according to another bank study, end up retiring with a mortgage. Needless to say, this has never happened before. Meanwhile BMO found that 41% are contemplating dumping their houses when they retire, since that’s about the only serious asset they own.

“They shouldn’t be relying on their homes because there are risks,” a banker cautions. One major problem is that as more people bail from real estate, prices fall and that generational nestegg starts to fade. The conclusion: “Boomers could be in serious financial trouble.”

By the way, there are about nine million people in this cohort, owning about three million houses. Figure it out.

There’s no force more powerful than demographics. It’s been responsible for long-term real estate trends for the past six decades. Boomers formed families in the Seventies and started on a housing binge only now ending. In many ways, it was a self-fulfilling romp. Demand caused inflated prices which created capital gains which turned real estate into a viable investment, which begat more buying and price bloat. Today we see the end game. Homes people can’t afford with huge amounts of net worth stuffed in them.

Now for the real problem. Too few kids.

Boomers turned out to be the first-ever bunch of self-absorbed, birth-controlled hedonists who never got around to replacing themselves. In 1961 moms had an average of four births each. Today it is 1.7 – a monumental 57% decline. And there are consequences.

As StatsCan points out, 2013 will mark the first time there are more wrinklies than kids. During this year the number of 15-to-24 year olds will be smaller than the 55-to-64 crowd. As I have previously pointed out, it’s also the first time we’ll see half a million people turning 60 in a single year, a trend that will last for the next seven, unless an asteroid hits (which is suddenly mainstream).

Among those consequences? Higher taxes to support a soon-to-be-overwhelmed health care system (some 80% of care is consumed in the final years of life). Immense pressure on pensions – one reason the feds are already pushing the age for the OAS out to 67. This is just the start. Public-sector, defined benefit plans are generally slipping into deficit positions already. Either more taxes will be needed to bail them out, or retired teachers and cops will have to start planning for reduced benefits.

Sadly, all these Boomers with their clumsy oxygen tanks and irritating walkers aren’t going to croak soon, either. Life expectancy is rocketing higher, ensuring lots of today’s 60-year-olds will still be staggering around in twenty-five years.

This means (simply put), a slow economy for decades to come, more demands on governments (and taxpayers), a constant battle against deflationary pressures, and a real estate mess. In fact, because Boomers were the original housing lusters, this is the one aspect of society where we should all expect the greatest impact. There are not enough kids to absorb (or afford) the housing stock, and immigration will never fill the gap. After all, nine million boomers hurtling towards their Viagra and Depends years are no match for 250,000 newcomers, three-quarters of whom can’t afford to buy houses until years after arriving.

Worse, a third or more of these people lack the finances to retire – without liquidating their homes. Sure, some will try reverse mortgages and ensure their kids’ inheritance is entirely sucked away by a bank. Others will hang on to their homes and learn to like Meow Mix. But for hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions over the next decade, there will be but one option. Sell.

Any house-rich, pensionless Boomer who waits, is a denier.

Any houseless kid who doesn’t, a fool.

243 comments ↓

#1 Randy on 02.19.13 at 8:21 pm

DELETED

#2 guelphstudent on 02.19.13 at 8:23 pm

Meanwhile Toronto Condo prices are down 8.4% mid February. Shoe boxes keep getting more affordable with each passing month for the younger generation :)

#3 John Prine on 02.19.13 at 8:29 pm

Summerland, Okanagan Valley BC.

238 listings, 5 sales so far this month. Does not look good.

#4 mattmus on 02.19.13 at 8:35 pm

The obvious solution for us evil old “wrinklies” is euthanasia. We went in hock to give our kids (we did have some children, you know) good educations and supported our parents in their old age, which is one reason we’re tapped out now. So who needs old people anyway? Make the cutoff age 70 and make room for the brave new world.

#5 DJB on 02.19.13 at 8:35 pm

Got an ETF that has a basket of hip, knee and depends manufacturers in it?

#6 Ronaldo on 02.19.13 at 8:38 pm

That has to be the funniest one yet. Hope the landing was soft.

#7 Smoking Man on 02.19.13 at 8:39 pm

You are so wrong on boomers…..

Selling,

You make an assumption tha most will grow a brain…… Just watch ctv new and observe how the achors talk to views, like they are 5 years old..

Boomers not moving or selling, thier kids will move in with them for free baby sitting……

#8 An Importation in Quebec on 02.19.13 at 8:48 pm

Just import more people and tax them more. I am one of these having been imported to fix the Ponzi scheme. To paraphrase Geroge Carlin, there are three types of importations “the business class which come here to whitewash their millions made in some illegal business. The middle class ones (like me) which we lure here to work and pay all the taxes. And the refugee which we bring in to make the mainstream Canadians accept immigrants”. See http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/~jmwang/george_carlin.html for the real quote.

#9 Oakvillian on 02.19.13 at 8:49 pm

well so far the house strategy is going quite good for the boomers.

#10 Drill Baby Drill on 02.19.13 at 8:57 pm

It will be many years before anything is trully affordable for the 20 somethings if they have to come up with the down payment on their own. I have two 20 something kids of my own.

#11 CP on 02.19.13 at 8:58 pm

Good one tonight Garth

#12 Sidera on 02.19.13 at 9:00 pm

Government pensions will be paid in full. Nominally, the money will be all the same, yet the only problem is the purchasing power of those dollars.

One only has to look to Japan to see what is coming down the pipe for the Western world. Currency debasement, followed by currency debasement. This is the only way governments are able to afford such largess.

It is a race to the bottom. No winners.

Don’t worry, this will turn out for the best in 15-25 years. I have faith.

#13 Sebee on 02.19.13 at 9:01 pm

Why is it that every time Garth does a story about boomers I take comfort that Cialis and Viagra are helping seniors become the second most STD infected group?

#14 Drill Baby Drill on 02.19.13 at 9:05 pm

I believe what is being put in place as far as homeownership goes by the Fed is ultimately a good thing. We will be saving our 20 somethings from themselves by having them not acruing to much mortgage debt. This theory should work fine for everywhere “except for Calgary” right now. The rental market is at 1% vacancy due to the large influx of people from all of Canada over the past few years. It is really starting to bite the rental availability and affordability. 3 bedroom up with 1 bath avg rent is $1700/mth no pets and no kids.

#15 Early Poster on 02.19.13 at 9:06 pm

Great post Garth, very succinct and impacting as usual.

By the way, was #1 Randys post that you deleted a “fuurrsstt” post?

If so, Dr. Wayne, a.k.a the fuurrsst policeman and chief executioner, will be very disappointed that you scooped the opportunity away from him.

#16 Inglorious Investor on 02.19.13 at 9:11 pm

“One major problem is that as more people bail from real estate, prices fall and that generational nestegg starts to fade.”

A generational, walker-assisted rush for the exits?

#17 Suede on 02.19.13 at 9:13 pm

To those who argue that Vancouver, Toronto or Wherever is too expensive to live. I’ve got news for you.

As I argued to a table full of Realtors at the local watering hole, it’s not unaffordable to LIVE in Vancouver – It’s unaffordable to OWN in Vancouver.

Huge difference.

They were then confused…”throw away money on rent” “not gaining equity” “Bla bla bla bla, cliche, cliche, bla bla” “HPI Index says” “Stock market sucks, it’s not safe” “Why did Flaherty tighten mortgage rules to cause this mess” etc… etc…

Then i pretended to look confused for some drama. Paradox 101.

I also got stuck with paying the bill last, hence some extra cost. They are a smart lot…no denying that.

But it’s like the movie A Bronx Tale…The kid owed Cologero $20, but Chazz Palmintieri told him, “look, that kid is no good and not gonna be a good friend anyway. Think of it this way: It cost you 20 bucks to never have to deal with him again.”

#18 Chester on 02.19.13 at 9:15 pm

is it better to cash out or take the Government Pension seeing that the debt and demographics is going to be an issue to defined benefit plans?

#19 Peter on 02.19.13 at 9:17 pm

Meow Mix is best if you pour just enough boiling water over it to cover & wait 10 minutes before serving.

#20 Derek R on 02.19.13 at 9:17 pm

I would suggest that those two young ladies are not Amazon material.

#21 Inglorious Investor on 02.19.13 at 9:17 pm

“There are not enough kids to absorb (or afford) the housing stock, and immigration will never fill the gap.”

The Millennials will just have to save the world somehow. But they’ll have to think outside the concrete box.

#22 AK on 02.19.13 at 9:18 pm

Man, the Babes sure are Hot!!!

#23 Andrewski on 02.19.13 at 9:19 pm

Not only are there 500,000 Canadians turning 60 this year, and the next 7, which will obviously burden health care across this country, but take a look at these scary stats via the CIA’s fascinating: The World Factbook…

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2228rank.html

We’re wallowing in unchartered territory here, hang on for the ride!

#24 espressobob on 02.19.13 at 9:19 pm

A sobering post tonight! All the more reason to load up those TFSA’s & RRSP’s etc.

Cat food isn’t exactly cheap!

#25 Matt on 02.19.13 at 9:19 pm

Don’t you understand Garth? If the boomers had spent less money and saved more the economy would have sucked even worse than it has and the poor would be even poorer. The bigger issue here is the whole economic system is mulesh*t. It doesn’t work. Too much greed, or something …

#26 Drill Baby Drill on 02.19.13 at 9:20 pm

The CBC Calgary morning radio show today had an eyeopening piece on the influx of Canadians from out of province fueling the new home and rental market. Alberta has to create new infrastructure yearly to support the addition of the equivalent of a city the size of Red Deer (90K). That is a lot of investment not counting oil & gas investment. No wonder we are going broke.

#27 Robbie on 02.19.13 at 9:30 pm

Ouch! Obvious, once pointed out, but still hurts to hear it. The baby boomers entering the housing market and buying family sized houses made huge changes in that market. Now, huge changes are occurring as they downsize and ultimately disappear. When one reaches the peak of a (housing) mountain, then it’s all downhill from there.

#28 Deano on 02.19.13 at 9:30 pm

Public pensions in deficit…and how. We (OSSTF) recently had a vote on whether to further de-index our pension. My number one question as I manned the lunch time voting booth? “What’s indexing?”.

I can kiss that sweet pension goodbye. But hey, the over-50 teachers will enjoy an indexed pension.

Thankfully, I started reading this blog before it was too late to save my future.

#29 White Rock Mom on 02.19.13 at 9:32 pm

Wrinklies stay in their homes as long as possible. My great grandmother stayed in her home until she was 94 years old. She had no pension either. She was an investor all her adult life. She started investing in 1927. she would have been eating cat food if she let the crash of 1929 scare her onto the sidelines. She loved her Bell shares so much she collected hand held bells. The big difference between her and so many today is that she saved every month no matter what.

#30 30somethingJ on 02.19.13 at 9:35 pm

Hey Garth – are you using fancy rounding or are boomers shacking up 3 to a house? Or does the 9 million cohort include non-owners?

#31 Drill Baby Drill on 02.19.13 at 9:35 pm

CBC radio Calgary last week had an eyeopening piece on the Alberta population explosion. This has occured before in Alberta ( I was part of the explosion in 1975). Alberta is having to borrow for infrastructure improvements to the tune of the equivalent of a city the size of Red Deer (90K) yearly. No wonder we are going broke what with the increased oil diff and also having to act as the social welfare pressure relief valve for all other provinces in Canada. Yes NFLD, Ont, Que, NS, PEI, NB and BC start cutting Alta a big fat check.

#32 The end is nigh on 02.19.13 at 9:36 pm

Me no worry.
There’s always the temporary worker who will take care everything.

#33 dave on 02.19.13 at 9:41 pm

Meow Mix, now that’s good eatin!

#34 Anglophone on 02.19.13 at 9:41 pm

First is not first.

#35 matt on 02.19.13 at 9:42 pm

Garth,

One of your best blog entries to date.

Powerful.

Poignant.

Well-written.

#36 IVoteIndependent on 02.19.13 at 9:45 pm

Living life just a few years behind the locust-like horde of Boomers, I see that just as I get there (no matter where “there” is), everything is sucked dry -jobs taken, prices driven up, etc. Their “elder care” is probably going to suck huge taxes from me, and I won’t be surprised if legislation is passed to permit the government to raid my registered accounts to support Boomers who never bothered to put anything into theirs. Hell, Boomers will probably use up all the grave sites before I get one.
Mr Turner, how can I protect myself from the Boomers?

#37 The end is nigh on 02.19.13 at 9:45 pm

No benefits for dual citizens who lived less than 10 years in Canada.
Problem solved.

#38 Dr. WAYNE on 02.19.13 at 9:48 pm

” … boomers hurtling towards their Viagra … ”

Vernerable Mr. Turner … speak for yourself.

#39 Jaguar on 02.19.13 at 9:51 pm

Garth…many cities have programs for seniors to ‘defer property taxes’, or provide seniors ‘grants’ which is basically a subsidy as they do in British Columbia. Given the demographic numbers you have just outlined it doesn’t make sense that this could continue in the future. Too many wrinklies and not enough revenue for city coffers.
Property taxes alone will crush some of those people and force them to dump their houses……

#40 Shawn Allen on 02.19.13 at 9:53 pm

YONG PEOPLE< PRAY FOR A STOCK CRASH

Number 5 White Rock Mom said:

She (Great grandmother) started investing in 1927. she would have been eating cat food if she let the crash of 1929 scare her onto the sidelines.

***************************************
If you have just started investing and intend to invest for many years, a stock crash is the stuff of dreams. Sure it hits your first few years' savings but then you get years to buy at low prices (at least that is what happened after 1929).

Basically investing can hurt at first but then it often starts to feel real good and eventually you are glad you did it.

If my grandma had had a big stock portfolio, I'd call her Great too!

#41 Piccaso on 02.19.13 at 9:53 pm

This means (simply put), you work till you drop.

#42 Freedom First on 02.19.13 at 9:58 pm

Garth, I have some Boomers in my life who are in the binds you speak of for that generation. I also have some of the kids who drank the Kool-aid in the last few years. It is a few years now since I have passed on your blog to some of these same people, after trying to get through to them. Only one of these people said they looked at your blog, but none of them would discuss anything to do with finances/RE with me since, and I knew better than to try to big up the subject again myself. I am long past arguing or trying to convince anyone of anything. A closed/brainwashed mind is difficult to penetrate.

However, now I can see some of the Boomer set is starting to waken to reality of their situation, as is their mortgaged/heloced/loc/credit card indebted offspring. Their manner is getting more serious these days. I can see things are tight for them. I am so grateful to be so fortunate. You do good work Garth, and your God, She is good:)

#43 Spiltbongwater on 02.19.13 at 10:01 pm

My retirement plan, I will make sure I have enough money for a fexible dryer hose, and a tank of gas. Good night Irene

#44 Chopper on 02.19.13 at 10:01 pm

Great post Garth, had me LMFAO. But so true.
It is hard to find people that would tell it like it is without fear of what others might say, and you my friend does it best.

I see the signs of hard times a coming for Canada, but Greed has consequences and this is the result of Greed.

Thighten your belts and pull your socks up people, welcome to the new Canada.

#45 Cowpoke on 02.19.13 at 10:04 pm

Nobody is getting out alive! Dont worry be happy!

#46 Tripp on 02.19.13 at 10:06 pm

“Higher taxes to support a soon-to-be-overwhelmed health care system…”

Healthcare could be the next big bubble. Canadians are already waiting for months for MRIs and years for surgery although the largest chunk of our taxes go there. If you google “canadians without…” the second autocomplete option is “…a family doctor”. While being obesessed to compare ourselves with US, we forget there is an entire world out there. Take a look at the bankrupt Europe, they deliver more, faster and better with less money.

http://mobi.fcpp.org/publication.php/3169
http://www.cdhowe.org/pdf/Commentary_339.pdf
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/02/13/patients-without-doctors-doctors-without-jobs/

#47 T5>myT4 on 02.19.13 at 10:09 pm

Sir Turner,

I would greatly appreciate it if in a future post you could touch on the Pension squeeze that is sure to grip our nation.

As a past OMERS member I recently received information about a thing called “AVC” Annual Voluntary Contributions”. They market it as an exclusive VIP OMERS only fund, where monies deposited is deducted from income exactly like RSP contributions. Basically just buying more OMERS units.

I can only think if they are reaching out for these additional contributions they know they are facing a shortfall in the not so distant future.

Your expertise would be appreciated on this matter.

Regards.

You don’t need me. You have it nailed. — Garth

#48 The Original Dave on 02.19.13 at 10:10 pm

Garth, you’re hilarious…..the wrinklies that hold on will learn to enjoy meow mix….bwahahahaha

#49 StocksRHot2013 on 02.19.13 at 10:13 pm

Treb numbers are out and condos just got slaughtered….. This is just the beginning folks…. Gonna get real ugly for the next few years

#50 Mic D'angelo on 02.19.13 at 10:14 pm

The problem is so many Canadians don’t spend money they do have. In the 1960’s, 1970’s there was no massive debt culture like today and the last 25 years at least. I am not talking about getting mortgages either.The access to credit was based on downpayments, ability to pay based on income and assets and specific loans for a specific need or want.

You wanted a car, you got a car loan for 24 months maximum, you wanted furniture,you got a loan for furniture, you wanted a T.V., you got a loan for the T.V. etc. There was not this borrow on the house like an ATM machine (line of credits,HELOC) and there was not this easy access to credit cards today available at every store and gas station you charge what ever you want.

The problem is people don’t care about the consequences anymore and go bankrupt,consumer proposal(pay a portion of their original debt 60%,50%,40%etc.) .Low interest does not work with 28.8% department store credit cards from 6 stores $1,000 each. It does not work with car leasing and financing for 84 months,96 months at 0.00% or 1.90% but the financing charges,interest is already included in the car.

It does not work with credit cards with 9.99% or 11.99% or 19.99% interest rates and 24.99% for cash advances.People really are financially moronic and this is the way the education system and our financial system likes it. the problem now is it is getting too far out or balance and this scares them now.This is why Carney keeps repeating the debt overload scare like a parrot.

#51 not 1st on 02.19.13 at 10:15 pm

This group invented Viagra, yet the birth rate drops? Go figure.

#52 salonist on 02.19.13 at 10:16 pm

who’s on first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M

#53 Mr Buyer on 02.19.13 at 10:18 pm

#46 Tripp on 02.19.13 at 10:06 pm
…………………………………………………………
It is hard to hold a straight face when fiscal constraints are cited as reasons why medical care is lacking especially in light of the past few years of creative accounting and printing of money

#54 Matt on 02.19.13 at 10:25 pm

I doubt the concept of retirement has been around very long at all. Ordinarily older folk would raise grandkids and do a lot of cooking and keeping house. Older men would still work, albeit less physically demanding tasks. We’ve deluded ourselves. When retirement was set at 65, I read the average man lived until 67.

#55 Mixed Bag on 02.19.13 at 10:25 pm

“Among those consequences? Higher taxes to support a soon-to-be-overwhelmed health care system ”

Would the corollary then be, the RRSP contribution results in a sweeter deduction come income tax time?

#56 Boomer21 on 02.19.13 at 10:27 pm

Oxygen tanks, irritating walkers and depends! It doesn’t matter how much money you have, all of those health issues have a way of evening things out. Yes if you have money you can pay someone to change the depends, it’s still an adult diaper. That includes you Garth. I know you make fun of boomers to make a point but we will all get there someday. No amount of money can make disease and old age go away so the best I plan to do is to look after my health and enjoy myself now. (yes I have a balanced portfolio and no debt) and i am a not very wrinkly boomer.

#57 Mark on 02.19.13 at 10:31 pm

Equities are very likely to do well as a sort of rebalancing trade away from RE and bonds. However, most Canadians won’t be participating because they’ll be stuck in massively depreciated houses, with higher interest rate spreads to boot being charged on account of the decline of the asset class.

The smartest young people these days are scraping together whatever money they can, and are buying stocks on margin.

#58 Musty Basement Dweller Wannabe on 02.19.13 at 10:35 pm

I hope Costco carries MeowMix. But then again by that time us boomers might not be able to afford their annual membership. There’s a vision for ya, us pale wrinkly, blinking boomers in musty, moldy basements, meow mix, old TVs with rabbit ears and tin foil on them, homemade wine (that parts ok, you could do it right in the basement), Yahoo NICE !!! :)

#59 Smoking Man on 02.19.13 at 10:40 pm

MSM calling higher education a scam

Why does everyone copy me……..Perhaps I just see things before anyone else……..

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2010/12/20/is-higher-education-a-scam/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-ehrenreich/the-higher-education-scam_b_47287.html

#60 The Patient on 02.19.13 at 10:40 pm

Hey, this post reminded me: whatever happened to that promise you made, many weeks ago, that you’d show us all how to suck money out of our RRSPs without penalty. Ya never quite delivered on that, GT!

You mean you missed it? — Garth

#61 FTP - First Time Poster on 02.19.13 at 10:47 pm

Caught a piece on Global – Dutch are starting to work 25hrs/wk but not retire until they’re 80+. Giving them more free time in their youth. Uh-huh – where do i sign up for lifetime servitude.

#62 westcanguy on 02.19.13 at 10:48 pm

Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow………meow

Yeah, I remember the commercial.

#63 Smoking Man on 02.19.13 at 10:50 pm

Continued…..

Damn iPad….

#49 StocksRHot2013 on 02.19.13 at 10:13 pm
Treb numbers are out and condos just got slaughtered….. This is just the beginning folks…. Gonna get real ugly for the next few years

What’s worse?

Thousands of kids in debt for worthless deplomas

#64 Blacksheep on 02.19.13 at 10:56 pm

Three solutions that instantly came to mind:

1) Logan’s Run (a little young)
2) Eskimo’s on icebergs (a little callous)
3) Soylent Green (ahh, just right)

take care
Blacksheep

#65 Retired Boomer - WI on 02.19.13 at 11:04 pm

Garth, dear misguided boob tonight….

Boomers for the most part will not sell. L:et us assume the usual path. The old boy retires first (he is usually holder).
Then ma retires later. They muddle along on their savings a few years, the car gets older, then he croaks./ Ma has an adult child (usually divorced, but sometime unmarried) move in with her to help with the overhead.
That extra bedroom is then rented out…maybe they start a day care service to bring in extra income.

The one thing they will NOT do until financially forced is sell that house! I don’t believe most are nearly as unprepared as the reports suggest. Look at your home owner stats vs boomer in Canada. 9 million wrinkies own 3 million houses. That tells me there might be about 1/3 of that number that do not own a home n ow. That does NOT imply they might not be well fixed financially. Sure, some don’t own a home because they could never manage, or maybe never had a decent job in their entire working careers to garner the means to home ownership.
They’re broke now, what difference will they see when they retire? Broke is still broke, merely broke, or starving broke.

Most home owners will try all sorts of arrangements before heading the shack to the sale barn, trust me on that opinion.

Having adequate resources is the BEST plan, and you do not need to be “rich” to qualify, but you do need to know how to manage what you have.

Boomers will do OK. It’s their dumb kids Io worry most over.

#66 TORONTO_GET_REAL on 02.19.13 at 11:06 pm

Another fear ongering post. Most won’t sell their home in the scenrios you just described. The kids will move in an inehrit the house. The cycle continues.

End of story.

#67 economictsunami on 02.19.13 at 11:07 pm

There will also undoubtedly be many consumer opportunities from such a large aging population.

For those Gen Y/ millennials (with cash flow) they are about to participate in the Great Canadian Garage & Liquidation Sale; while many boomers with HELOCS, are still paying for them.

Too many used goods, chasing too few buyers…

#68 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 02.19.13 at 11:07 pm

Among those consequences? Higher taxes to support a soon-to-be-overwhelmed health care system (some 80% of care is consumed in the final years of life).
Immense pressure on pensions – one reason the feds are already pushing the age for the OAS out to 67. This is just the start. Public-sector, defined benefit plans are generally slipping into deficit positions already.

Either more taxes will be needed to bail them out, or retired teachers and cops will have to start planning for reduced benefits.

================================

It’s already happening…and about time.

#69 Tim on 02.19.13 at 11:12 pm

Some demographer made this same argument about 10 years ago, and the exact opposite happened–real estate boomed. My parents are in their mid 70s and are still in their house. My grandmother was in her house until her late 80s. People won’t start selling en masse when they reach 60. You are also forgetting immigration–which seems to constantly increase.

#70 presley1000 on 02.19.13 at 11:12 pm

$38 million tear-down in Vancouver…

http://bit.ly/ZeeqLe

#71 dosouth on 02.19.13 at 11:15 pm

Sitting at YVR waiting for my flight to Calgary tonight. Had a pleasant ride with a taxi to the Nanaimo airport with a driver who tells me that he has sold real estate in the Nanaimo/Parksville area for 29 years.

He is driving cab to supplement his income. Says he had plans to retire and bought a house 5 years ago on one of the islands. Ready to retire and move in and he ends up with his granddaughter on his doorstep 4 years ago. She is now 14 with no sign of leaving until she graduates. Gotta take care of family, he says, but I miss my island property which he gets to once a month without his wife who hasn’t quite accepted their present personal financial state.

He says this is the 3rd downturn in his career and the first time he has had to find another income stream. Says he’s not sure when this slide will end….. here’s my card he says, just in case you decide to buy anytime in the future.

#72 KG on 02.19.13 at 11:17 pm

#60
You mean you missed it? — Garth

Garth, you had our expectations raised to something you may not have already told us in the distant past.

#73 Greaterfool in high DEMAND on 02.19.13 at 11:18 pm

A local RE flyer I was reading claims that sellers are not lowering house prices and values have crept up a little so its a good time to buy now or risk being priced out. How many greaterfools can still be out there? Anyone that doesn’t sell now will regret it later.

#74 Shawn Allen on 02.19.13 at 11:20 pm

Matt at 54 said:

I doubt the concept of retirement has been around very long at all.

*******************************************

This is true, and it’s hard for a society to grow its GDP per capita by encouraging a lot of the capitas to sit around and do nothing (and no disrespect intended to government office workers).

Imagine an old time rural farm village. Would they have encouraged the old folks to do absolutely nothing productive? It clearly would make no sense on the farm and it makes no sense in the City either, though it’s a little less obvious in the City, where useful work is first translated into a “job” whereas on the farm one just pitches in and does the work.

#75 Sebee on 02.19.13 at 11:26 pm

Hey 15-25 year old youth…is this what your future looks like?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9881606/Desperate-1701-fight-for-eight-Costa-jobs.html

#76 Christopher Lackey on 02.19.13 at 11:32 pm

Telecoms have just past REITs for top yield in the market. That’s two parties I’m late to. Whatever is coming down this crazy demographic pipeline, I cannot imagine Canadians (especially Boomers) going without their overpriced cable, internet, and cellphone packages.

#77 dogman01 on 02.19.13 at 11:45 pm

Had to post it;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo6QNU8kHxI

So true; don’t let your financial health overshadow what will be really important.

Spare tire at 50; you can still do something about it and you had better.

Health First
Family
Finance

#78 maria on 02.19.13 at 11:56 pm

#68 Tim: My parents are in their mid 70s and are still in their house. My grandmother was in her house until her late 80s. People won’t start selling en masse when they reach 60.
——–

I think you are right. I live in a neighbourhood in Etobicoke and just by looking at my street, 8 out of 10 houses are owned by people over the age of 60. At least half of them are widows. Some of them are barely walking – they should be in old age homes. They could sell their dinky bungalos and sidesplits for at least $600K. But I guess as long as they are walking and able to sit on their porches and chat, they just aren’t interested in selling.

#79 save v enjoy on 02.20.13 at 12:05 am

Great post tonight, Garth. Makes me think hard about the fine balance between saving and spending (to enjoy life). Of course I do both but these two opposing impetuses that live inside of me are constantly at war. Lucky, the saving one is the more powerful. Thanks for keeping me thinking, financially responsible and always learning!

#80 buy hi on 02.20.13 at 12:10 am

We need to vote for the political party that implements the ceremony Carousel. That will take care of the population and the drain on the economy. Hard to believe that this was first thought of in 1976!!

#81 Smoking Man on 02.20.13 at 12:13 am

Herb I’m like you. Your old, you Google some words in philosophy, and try and brand the Oracle of this site who’s on a new mission, save her.

But my intellectual rebuttal went over your head.

In fact it had you scratching your head. Who is the Smoking Man.

He’s a smart dude that spends his life solving problems, void of emotion, or wishful bias.

Unfortunately, circumstances and stuff has me fd up.

I’m so into wishful bias at the moment, I hope I call this one right.

#82 AprilNewwest on 02.20.13 at 12:16 am

#68 Tim
Yes some older folks will choose to stay in their houses providing health remains good and some will not be able to or will choose not to. As Garth has often stated, if I remember rightly, it only takes a small percentage to bring down the many.

#83 Musty Basement Dweller Wannabe on 02.20.13 at 12:19 am

I agree with what a few have suggested, saying the boomers will stay in their houses as long as absolutely possible. My mom and dad did that into their 80’s too since they were able and healthy and my dad had a government pension and they had no debt.

However the old folks can’t stay their houses forever, eventually they die or need to be in a home, or their children or relatives need to move in with them. Or in some cases, they will be priced out of their homes because of rising taxes and maintenance costs and debt that still isn’t paid off. Who is coming up behind these boomers? Come on people, look around you and look at the age of people outside of university campus’s, and the jobs they have!

The end result from a Real Estate point of view is the same. Drastically reduced demand for housing. Some high priced economists feel this means reduced prices could happen when demand becomes lower.

The math is indisputable, just look at the numbers of people moving into those age groups. The past just doesn’t equal the future in this case.

Immigration level numbers, even with drastic increases that a government would initiate, are pale in comparison to the boomer numbers moving up the age spectrum or “mice nuts” in this argument.

#84 Renting and loving it on 02.20.13 at 12:33 am

As much as I hate to wish ill will on anyone, I know someone who is listing his condo this week and will probably learn the hard way to reign his debt in. A prime example of someone who has rolled consumer debt into the mortgage several times and is still 40 large in debt. The mortgage is now double what it was 10 years ago.

But you know, he knows everything and there’s no talking logic or sense to him. Over 50 and even if he got what he’s asking (not likely… try 30k less) he’s still in debt after the smoke clears.

#85 JMS on 02.20.13 at 12:41 am

@T5>myT4

Here’s a very good blog on pension funds. It’s a reasonable as Garth’s posts on personal finances/RE. Yet somehow more depressing.

http://pensionpulse.blogspot.ca/

I am of the personal view that I’ll work until I drop. If I manage to actually save enough to retire (mostly from having stumbled across this blog and reading the wisdom of the BO (Bearded Oracle)), I’ll view this as a bonus.

#86 Cici on 02.20.13 at 12:42 am

#4 Mattmus

All I can say is YUCK!
I hope you are joking, but even if so, that’s not funny.

I have relatives in their 80s who are fantastic people and in pretty good shape.

No, euthanasia is not the answer. Staying in good physical health and making sound financial decisions is.

And congrats to you or anyone you know of who did help out their parents in their old age. Family is everything.

I’m so glad my parents were wise with their money, because I’m in my late 30’s and behind in my own own retirement savings, thanks in most part to student loan debt that eroded years of my post-education earnings.

In any case, I hope my parents live long enough to spend and enjoy every single penny of their retirement fund doing what they love and doing it in good health.

And I wish the same for you.

#87 Happy in BC on 02.20.13 at 12:44 am

Great post Garth. I am a Boomers Kid and shared this information with my mom (turning 60 soon). She has no retirement savings what-so-ever and says to me:
“I’ll guess I’ll just work forever, or sell my house.”
She only bought her house about 10 years ago.

Wooow. As her only child, I think I may have another expense on my hands. Or maybe I can wait until the bubble bursts and finally buy a house…with a suite for Mom.

#88 European on 02.20.13 at 1:09 am

I’m sure that the Boomer government will find a way to screw the rest of us again. Higher taxes, to support the boomers…will definately happen.

May be all the boomers will start renting out all their basements as retirement plans. I’m sure they will find a way to support their retirement other than selling their emotional assets. You can’t win if your a generation below them or a 20 some year old.

Throw it to the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ

#89 Yeah Yeah Yeah on 02.20.13 at 1:11 am

Gut check time for the wrinkles
Today’s wrinkles not the same as yesterdays
Reset, retire forget it.
Labour, healthcare, pension crisis loom
Old system done.
Stay in the game, contribute
Forget the illusion, beaches, soaps, mall walking come on man!

#90 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 02.20.13 at 1:24 am

-
Good post, but it’s nothing that most of us don’t know. The only thing is to use all the tools (mostly TFSA + good investments) available to better prepare ourselves for the here and now.
*
Devaluation ‘Twould be velly intelesting if the Brits., Japs., Yanks, Chinese, Russians and just about everyone else devalued their currencies within five working days; Uh Oh “This is our first hard core confirmation of what has long been suspected. The New York federal Reserve has been using the gold that belongs to various governments, dumping it on the market to suppress gold prices, and leasing it out to cover gold futures contracts that come due to protect the commodities market. And now they can’t get it back. Which means that if the US Government succeeds in taking away your guns, they will come after your gold (and probably silver) next. “ wrh.com; Readers Digest broke; Houses for one pound; Economic Straight Talk; 2:10 clip Home Depot founder speaks; 2:41 clip US (plus Canada’s) pension timebomb; Gas Prices Rising So what is oil doing? Dow, S&P and NASDAQ All high, for now; Stock Guru Bet he didn’t predict his own death; BoA Chief Nice raise; Spending Slowdown? from Wal-Mart’s slump; Joseph Stiglitz Opportunity gone; Kannaduhhh Economic dirtbag; Interesting letter; ObombaCare Not even unions want it; G20 nations Good bet China will retaliate; Nearly Half a Century Someone profited handsomely, and 17:15 clip Eric Sprott; 3:14 clip UK plagued by suicides due to austerity and debts; Oil and / from Shale US and Canada’s livelihood; Move to China Don’t look back.
*
At least the headline provides some comic relief; Two Faces of the US; Gift or Curse? X-ray vision; Beating the odds Woman gives birth to two sets of identical twins, all male; Consp. Theorists US govt. doesn’t like us, mostly because they’re all true; Short clip Wacky table tennis shot; Shingles exploding Chicken pox vaccine to blame? Led Zep reunion? GW Pix from Lake Ontario; Putin warns Obomba; Friends Again Why Turkey has been attacking Syria; Top Ten Healthiest Seeds; New bill requires cops to inspect homes for guns, plus other things; Anonymous “So, it isn’t China after all!” wrh.com; 1:54 clip Two vaccine study participants kick the bucket in new GMO flu vaccine trials; Disinfo. Anonymous, not China has been hacking computers.

#91 Carpe Diem on 02.20.13 at 1:46 am

I was ice fishing with my kids and my client’s employees + kids. Wow my boys were awesome! 4 hours focused on catching fish. Wow! If your kid cannot focus … go fishing!!!

My kids RULE!

Now, I tend to live for my kids (since until my mid-thirties it was all me!). I want to make sure they are happy + understand economics. I have my 7 year old saying buy low and sell high.

He asks …dad why do we rent? I say I can get a better price in a few years for the dream house but those stocks are low so we will buy that. Also do you not like the castle I rent?

He says, I understand – buy low sell high! Rent when buying a house is high!

And this was in front of a rich 65+ who’s son is in RE and home construction.

The gent looked at me and said .. he sure has his dad’s knowledge … then spiked me with … you should get my son to build you a house. I said … maybe someday when it makes business sense since right now renting is so much cheaper!

He looked at me and understood. I’m not horny.

#92 White Rock Mom on 02.20.13 at 1:51 am

Shawn Allen,
I started investing 16 years ago. I saw tech rally and crash and was discouraged but I continued to invest. The financial crisis put a serious dent in my wallet and gave me paralysis by analysis. I continue to invest although I don’t think my portfolio would be GT approved.
Your last statement made me laugh. :-)
Good night and happy investing.

#93 Ronaldo on 02.20.13 at 1:53 am

#36 IVoteIndependent –

”how can I protect myself from the Boomers?”

Buy Boomer insurance from Grey Power.

#94 The end is nigh on 02.20.13 at 1:56 am

In BC, twice as many CareCards are in circulation than there are people. Confiscate fraudulent cards.
Health problem solved!

#95 vancouver 2011 on 02.20.13 at 2:02 am

@ mic d’dangelo #50

someone already mentioned this vid a couple of days ago. if you have a bit of time. it’s worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

#96 T5>myT4 on 02.20.13 at 3:03 am

Thank’s for the link JMS.

#97 MrHulot on 02.20.13 at 3:18 am

Was anybody hurt in the making of this blog entry?

#98 juno on 02.20.13 at 3:23 am

One more thing to add.

The boomers are not only in Canada. Its all over the world!
After WWII humans went on a breeding binge.

The Japs, Yanks and Canadian, Brits etc etc are all going to hit the retiring Boomer problem.

I wonder if any have the stats on savings for the rest of the world. I’m assuming most of them have very little savings.

#99 popados on 02.20.13 at 3:23 am

#150brewski ,good point about sian dev. they are 6 bros all in.they just finished 20 plus units near 3 and williams.most are sold ,no free hondas here.maybe kias on the next project they have started #2 and 1 block n. of blundell.

#100 Notta Sheeple on 02.20.13 at 3:25 am

#50 Mic D’angelo on 02.19.13 at 10:14 pm

You pretty much nailed it.

#101 juno on 02.20.13 at 3:32 am

Sure People are living longer because we dump huge amount of $$$ into the health system to keep people alive.

As the Health budget begin to strain. Do you think we can continue to keep people on life support.
Who is going to pay for it all. Will we have cutbacks which will reduce the lifespan for the elderly?

Also note the stress for these retiring people. Traditionally they saved enough to retire. But imagine retiring and realizing you’re a broke ass bum.

If anything, I feel life expectancy age will go way down!

#102 Vancouver Thunder on 02.20.13 at 3:35 am

is it better to cash out or take the Government Pension seeing that the debt and demographics is going to be an issue to defined benefit plans?

I am interested in this as well. Both my wife and I are Federal Government workers, if we take a buyout now instead of pension we will get around 600k (for both of us). We both sold our houses at the peak made good money and are renting. We notice that we are getting more cuts every year in our jobs and are considering our options. Even though we are government workers we do have other skills :) For some reason I get this awful feeling our pension will not be there in 15 years. Your thoughts?

#103 Who Cares on 02.20.13 at 3:50 am

#31 Drill Baby Drill on 02.19.13 at 9:35 pm

I have been from one end of this country to other so many times I can’t even remember half of them. Everywhere there were always some idiots like you that know nothing about the rest of the country and not that much about your own part except some nonsense that is the prevailing point of view. That doesn’t make it right, as a matter of fact it is usually rediculously wrong.

Until the last cycle of transfer payments the only province who had never been a recipient was Ontario. You know who was, a bunch of times, Yes Alberta. So STFU stupid! You don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re welcome though, even if we were to gracious to keep pointing out all those years we were writing the cheque.(That is the way it is spelled by the way, go check if you like)

By the way you don’t ship the oil here either so all that let them freeze in the dark was more of the same BS. Alberta would be a lot better off if the oil were coming east.

#104 Beach Girl on 02.20.13 at 3:59 am

Best ever, Garth. This is real people talk. I run rooming houses, but luxury ones, business of the future. Broke boomers, occasional crazy. I don’t care, I like the company. We do live large. Only way to go. As, I do not wish to commit to a relationship. So bad at that. Short attention span in that place. Prime rib and chicken tomorrow, we is hungry. But, seriously, I talk to my cohorts, and I can smell the desperation. Can bugger you up, too. Till you get a grip. I know in my old age, there will 5 seniors like me, helping each out, and laughing.

#105 Beach Girl on 02.20.13 at 4:08 am

DELETED

#106 Buy? Curious? on 02.20.13 at 4:14 am

Ooooh, that was a good post! I love suckling anecdotal stories about Boomers from the teet of Garth’s blog! Though I’d like to add my observations based on conversations I’ve had with the old people. They are scared. They will stay in their houses until the end because that’s where they feel safe and it’s really all they have left. They’re really frightened. Some of them openly talking how they hope to have a fast, massive heart attack instead of a slow, drawn out decline. Well, if there are any Boomers out there that are concerned about their future, have their daughters call me. We can discuss over dinner.

#107 Jane24 on 02.20.13 at 4:15 am

I think it is worse than Garth says and not better. Too many over 60’s have not opened Pandora’s Box yet or have refused to sit down with a calculator. They don’t realise that they have no money and are afraid to find out.They just keep on spending and postponing their property taxes.

These people will indeed sell their houses as they will have no other option. They will not be able to maintain.

Article here in the UK yesterday in the papers about the demographics of current house sales. Biggest selling group are 55 to 64 year olds downsizing and in the market as a whole downsizing was the number one reason given for moving at this time. The result is 4 and 5 bed houses sitting and 3 bed houses close to shops being in high demand.

We seem to be ahead of the Canadians here and it is not looking good for all those suburb McMansions.

Buy small easy to maintain bungs in town and your RE money will be safe in both countries.

#108 willworkforpickles on 02.20.13 at 4:23 am

There are guys turning 60 still living in mom’s basement…, and in some cases they’re living upstairs and now mom’s in the basement.

#109 futureexpatriate on 02.20.13 at 4:43 am

The solution is simple: Canadians need to smoke more.

Will take care of the problem south for about 75% of US boomers who will never get close to seeing 60. Especially the females. You’ve come a long way Baby.

#110 live within your means on 02.20.13 at 5:40 am

The following pic would have been very appropriate for your current post.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/81211947/

#111 detalumis on 02.20.13 at 8:01 am

1. Myth number one, people are living longer. The life expectancy line is actually flattening and guess what, the number of years after age 65 has only increased about 3 years in the last 50 for women and 4 for men. The dramatic gains came with treatment for heart conditions that used to knock out many men before they even hit 65. If you made it to 65 back in the day you lived almost as long as today. Anecdotally I know plenty of women in particular dead of cancer before age 55 while their mothers are still ticking. Not sure why that is, maybe the stress of 60 hour work weeks vs a simple life cleaning and cooking dinner for the old man.

2. Myth #2 boomers will drain the health care system. It’s actually boomers pushing for assisted suicide not the current crop of old-old people. I for one will make sure to get no cancer screening after age 65 for anything. That way I can checkout with a nice drink of barbiturates in Quebec instead of ending up in LTC with dementia. I also will take the SAGE test every year and at the first sign of Alzheimer’s it’s hasta la vista bebe, a heroin or methadone overdose will do me just fine. I don’t know a single 75+ person who plans ahead like I do and I live surrounded by them. They just live in denial.

3. Really, really tired of boomer bashing while the older people with the stay at home housewives, no downsizing and full pension people get a free pass. Right now seniors get Cadillac health care compared to what is coming down the pipeline for the boomers. My 89 year old neighbour who never worked a day in her life gets a free pass but myself who will work full-time and pay taxes for 45+ years is vilified.

Fortunately for you, being bitter shortens life expectancy. — Garth

#112 Smoking Man on 02.20.13 at 8:24 am

Jane24

Unload Mc mansion buy a small bung in city…

Three years ahead of you on that one

#113 thinker on 02.20.13 at 8:53 am

You are way off the mark, the kids would just move, they would take a home equity to pull out cash for retirement and the kids would get the house. The condo suffers.

Think about it

#114 Jason on 02.20.13 at 9:24 am

I wonder if the declining child rate will only get worse.

I’m 31 today. I have no idea how my wife (33) and I would afford kids. We missed buying in when housing was still relatively affordable and between the two of us earn a little under $60K pre-tax a year. A child would have a hard go sharing our one bedroom apartment in St. John’s.

We’re sketching by but hardly able to save. Rent, utilities, food, and daily living seem to cost more daily. How the heck would we ever afford a child? Especially when the numbers seem to indicate that we’ll have up to four parents living long lives with inadequate savings of their own.

Hard times, Garth. Only getting crazier.

#115 TurnerNation on 02.20.13 at 9:33 am

Smoking man, even the junior tax-farmers are being squeezed. A recipie for pharmas.

They’ll never get ahead and they know it! 6-figure post secondary bills await. All for? The smart ones will get a diploma in stationary power management, HVAC, elevator or escalator repair (need those fixed asap). Go earn 6-figures in oil fields or elsewhere. Or join the police, for gold plated.

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2013/02/12/toronto_students_worry_about_family_school_and_future_survey_finds.html

Toronto students worry about family, school and future, survey finds

Sweeping survey by the TDSB finds many Grades 7-12 students often feel lonely, depressed and anxio

#116 EIT on 02.20.13 at 9:33 am

There will always be poor people… o well. Maybe indentured servitude will make a come-back.

#117 CrowdedElevatorfartz on 02.20.13 at 10:02 am

@#111 detalumis

Ice flows.
You forgot just putting old people out on ice flows a la the eskimos( my apologies to the pc crowd…I meant Inuit).

Ice flows.
Doesnt cost a dime

#118 NRI13 on 02.20.13 at 10:08 am

Great post as always. I believe the Dean at UWO’s Ivey school of business made a very similar point about the affect of demographics on real estate in Canada. If i remember this right, his article was printed in G&M and Garth mentioned it in this blog as well. I, for one, am a big believer that demographics will be one of the biggest factors affecting real estate’s price appreciation in the residential market.

I met a client just last week who had been flipping homes on near constant basis (as constant as less than 1 year…there goes the Principal residence exemption) and now is having trouble finding a tenant in …suburban Toronto. Trouble finding a tenant for a single detached home, not a condo in toronto. Think about that…and the home is in Brampton’s supposedly nice area of Castlemore.

#119 Shawn Allen on 02.20.13 at 10:17 am

To Mr T5 > T4

So investment income greater than employment income.

It occurs to me that there are two ways for that to happy.

I prefer T5 > 6 figures (not there yet, by any means as most of my returns are unrealized capital gains or otherwise in RRSP – dismissively called “paper gains” by those who do not know of what they speak).

#120 What is your plan once in retirement? on 02.20.13 at 10:25 am

As Mr. Garth has demonstrated numerous times, most do not have enough to retire. Sadly, once in retirement, most do not have a plan to withdraw funds. Here are the results of a recent survey of retirees’ said plan http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505146_162-57343147/retirement-spending-follow-the-crowd-and-youll-go-broke/

Granted, these are Americans and we are NOTHING like them!

#121 afraidit allmightend on 02.20.13 at 10:30 am

DELETED

#122 Dr. Hoof Hearted on 02.20.13 at 10:37 am

Chinese invasion

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/
Jim Stone, 2/18/2013

I recently met a Mexican woman who is completely aware of the Rothchild banking scam, nuclear sabotage on 3/11, the antidepressant conspiracy, and many other major issues. It is unusual to find anyone as aware as she is, and with regard to issues in Mexico, she happened to be a gold mine of information.

She is extremely concerned about a new Chinese presense in Mexico called Dragon Mart. Dragon mart is a massive economic center recently established 13 kilometers outside of Cancun. It will be the largest center for Chinese trade outside of China anywhere in the world, dwarfing the next largest center which is located in Dubai by a factor of more than two. It will sell everything from medical equipment to agricultural machinery. Obviously things like food, electronics and computer hardware will be mainstays there but the list even includes construction materials and Jewelry. The only things that will not be sold are clothes, shoes and toys, due to local pressures from those who could afford to fight, but what about the poor Mexicans producing traditional goods?

The Chinese know no bounds in what they will produce and according to this woman, China has rendered many aboriginal mexicans unable to support themselves through traditional means because China even makes cheap knock offs of traditional Mexican products. These products are imported and then get sold to tourists at high markup while leaving the local producers with no income stream. If China can out do local Mexicans at their own game, Mexicans who are themselves low income, what on earth are the work conditions like in China?

If you are concerned about America selling off it’s national treasures, such as the Escalante Staircase to China for the purpose of securing debt, you ought to know what is going on in Mexico. Mexico has long been rumored to be a major front for a hostile Chinese invasion from the south, with many Chinese troops rumored to be there. Heck, there may be many up in Canada as well, waiting for who knows what.

I find it interesting that not a peep about this is being spoken in the American press; Mexicans are very upset about this and see it as yet another example of the super rich cashing in livelihoods of average people simply to get even richer. I am not a communist, and though I am sympathetic toward the Mexican people over this, feel that the problem could be a lot bigger than the rich getting richer. It may simply be a way to provide cover while a Chinese military presense becomes firmly rooted to the south.

After all, everything going to this “Dragon Mart” will be routed through the Port of Manzanillo, and if the list involves agricultural equipment, automobiles and trucks, and the supply stream is 100 percent Chinese, military equipment would be fairly easy to get into the country and container shipped anywhere once in. Dragon Mart would provide an excellent front for military imports, especially since there are many ways to divert cargo between Manzanillo and Cancun. Why place this so far from the port city?

==========================

I’ll post more on this issue later.

#123 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 10:40 am

#111 detalumis on 02.20.13 at 8:01 am

Boomes are being unduly criticized. Which other generation would have acted any differently under the same socio-economic circumstances?

That said, Boomers must realize that the party is over, and they will have to “give back” some of what they took, which, in the final analysis, is more than what they collectively earned.

As for life expectancy, I agree with you. The now commonly-held notion that the average natural human lifespan was 40 years, or some other such nonsensical number, (and that 30 used to be ‘middle aged’) in the past is just an example of how statistics on life expectancy have been misinterpreted.

#124 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 10:48 am

#50 Mic D’angelo on 02.19.13 at 10:14 pm

“People really are financially moronic and this is the way the education system and our financial system likes it. the problem now is it is getting too far out or balance and this scares them now.”

That’s right. The farmer wants to SHEAR his sheep, not KILL them.

#125 Bargains everywhere on 02.20.13 at 10:51 am

I have to agree with many others here that Boomers will do whatever it takes to stay in their houses. Several friends of my parents (slightly older than Boomers) have gone the reverse mortgage route and only when that money runs out will they ever consider selling. Boomers will do the same. Or their kids who couldn’t afford to buy a house will move back in with them and ultimately inherit it. Yes, the houses will eventually have to be sold but I believe it will be a long time coming.

#126 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 11:03 am

A note for those seeking monthly distributions with HIGH-YIELD ETFs:

Check how much of your monthly distribution comes from Return of Capital rather than actual Dividends. In some cases the bulk of your distribution may be return of capital, which is basically getting your own money back.

This is not necessarily a scam on the part of the ETF sponsor, but has to do with the vagaries of managing an ETF with a monthly payout, especially if the distribution amount is fixed.

Just be aware of what you are getting. That 7% distribution may not be quite as good at is looks.

#127 Chickenlittle on 02.20.13 at 11:06 am

# 59 Smoking Man

“…they see a college degree chiefly as mark of one’s ability to obey and conform… Employers can safely bet that you will not be a trouble-maker, a whistle-blower or any other form of non-“team-player.” You will do anything. You will grovel.”

GREAT articles, SM!! I couldn’t agree with you or these articles more.

This quote is absolutely true. I had a hard time at one of my placements because I ask questions about everything. They wanted someone who would shut up and obey, but at the same time we are being told to “advocate” for ourselves. They send such mixed messages.

My boomer mother was on my side, though, God bless her!

#128 Chickenlittle on 02.20.13 at 11:09 am

I completely agree with you. My husband and I are in the same boat.
You say you have a one bedroom, so the old argument that you are living beyond your means is garbage, but I’m sure that some old person or another will find something to criticize you about! They always do…

#129 Chickenlittle on 02.20.13 at 11:10 am

Sorry that last comment was for #114 Jason on 02.20.13 at 9:24 am

#130 Sebee on 02.20.13 at 11:19 am

Watchdog,

Is it me, or did the CAD $ just move 3% since we chatted? No one will notice until it’s 1.09.

#131 Bobby on 02.20.13 at 11:21 am

#102 Vancouver Thunder,

You raise an interesting point. I see a day, sooner rather than later, when the only employer able to afford defined benefit pensions will be the federal and provincial governments. The costs are just too high. However, they too are now in significant deficit.
Just look to the States. What is bankrupting many cities is the overly generous public service pay and benefit packages. In the end, these benefits will be lost.
The only recourse for governments to pay for these generous packages is to raise taxes. Given that the majority of taxpayers do not enjoy the same level of compensation, how well do you think that will be received?

#132 HogtownIndebted on 02.20.13 at 11:25 am

Re: #47 T5>myT4 OMERS Pension

I would encourage you to perform your due diligence yourself and get some direct info on OMERS. OMERS may have some challenges, but it is far from the private pensions that have been criminally underfunded or raided by corrupt CEOs and 1 percenters. There should be real outrage directed at such practices, but we hear relatively little.

It is a straw man to target generally well-managed public sector pensions, which invest in a balanced portfolio (I heard here that was a good thing), including innovative revenue generators like the PEI toll bridge, in the case of OMERS. It’s too easy a target for doomers and the conspiracy-minded to target such pensions.

Members pay a big chunk in deductions every year, and many, like OMERS, are independent agencies and the ultimate payouts are not backed by taxpayers (increased contribution rates do affect members and may affect governments, but keep in mind these will usually mean lower pay packets at the bargaining table when times are tight)

http://www.omers.com/pension/AVC_FAQs.aspx

The AVC plan does not support any shortfall in the existing OMERS pension. It comes as a result of requests by members to put their extra RSP-type money somewhere that might be more resistant to market problems.

OMERS does have a shortfall, and says it should be erased in about 10-15 years. We’ll see. Unfortunately, plans like this were hogtied by really stupid federal government policies (before Garth’s time, not his fault)which did not let pensions run large surplusses.

Ridiculous.Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do, build up gains in good times to weather the bad? Not according to the Feds. So when the markets were booming in the late 1990s, the law said no. As a result, from 1998-2003 OMERS was required by law to declare a ‘contribution holiday’ while still letting members accumulate service. OMERS has increased contribution deductions for active members for the next two years to kickstart getting over the shortfall. This still does not include any AVC monies.

What a terrible lack of government foresight this was, what utter fiscal incompetence.

So (said the Gen x-er bitterly, but still with a smile and a twinkle) the older boomer pensioners found yet another way to have society subsidize them, while the younger pension members will get the bigger bills. Just like Harpo increased the retirement age just enough to affect Gen x-ers and younger but not the boomers. Swell.

I am seriously thinking about going into the funeral parlour business, to cash in while the boomers cash out, just to get even….Maybe I can crowd-source some funding for a ‘bury the boomers’ investment fund here…How about a “Roll Up The Rim” promotion for biodegradable coffins? Any takers?

#133 On The Sidelines on 02.20.13 at 11:36 am

BC just announced more TAXES in their budget . BC = Bring Cash and lots of it . I guess my Freedom 85 plan just went up another year . BCs hurting now , just wait till election time Cristy , your time is up. And NO , I wont be voting NDP either , Maybe the Marijuana Party , or perhaps the Green people .

#134 Ret on 02.20.13 at 11:44 am

ING Bank, now owned by Bank of Nova Scotia,
PC Financial owned by CIBC,
and today we find out that early in February, Ally Bank was quietly bought out by the RBC.
High interest savings accounts (HISA) now pay 1.2%, down from Ally’s 1.8%.

Not so much as a murmur from the Competition Bureau of Canada, MIA once again.

#135 AprilNewwest on 02.20.13 at 11:50 am

#78 Maria – most WOULD and WILL prefer to stay in their homes than go into a care home … not all will be able to.
What would you prefer…..We’re all going down the same wrinkly declining path.

#136 Harvard Grad on 02.20.13 at 11:53 am

I think the best thing the government can do is open our doors wide open – offer incredible financial incentives for those in their prime to come to Canada – forget the 250,000 per year – we need to bring in 750,000 to a million per year for the next 7-10 years which will alleviate the situation we all face. Those numbers won’t be hard to find if we can target third world countries and the offer of a financial startup to come here.

Funny thing – as a kid I always wondered what will this country look like when the baby boomers came to retire –

Open the doors wide open – Canada is open for new comers –

#137 Doug in London on 02.20.13 at 11:55 am

Boomers turned out to be the first-ever bunch of self-absorbed, birth-controlled hedonists who never got around to replacing themselves.

On October 31, 2011 the world’s population officially reached 7 billion. That was Halloween day, and was it a coincidence? Probably not, as the world is far too overpopulated and that was by far the scariest Halloween story I’ve ever heard, far more scary than traditional Halloween stories of ghosts, goblins, and vampires. In summary, aren’t declining birth rates and population a GOOD thing?

If the effect on housing is to bring down prices in the long run, won’t that be a good thing for the younger generations, who will be saddled with more taxes in the years to come and thus have less disposable income to buy a house? If such a scenario brings house building to a halt in places like southern Ontario where urban sprawl gobbles up insame amounts of prime agricultural land won’t that be a good thing? It would be great if this insane practice stopped while we still have enough agricultural land left in Canada to feed a small town of 300 people.

Last but not least, there’s all this worry about there not being enough workers to support all these wrinkly boomers. That simply won’t happen if the majority of boomers keep working as they don’t have either a pension or sufficient savings to retire. I’m far more worried about any delayed effects of the date changing over to Y2K. In fact it would be better if more of the boomers retired and created vacancies for chronically unemployed younger people.

#138 AK on 02.20.13 at 11:55 am

#130 Sebee on 02.20.13 at 11:19 am

“Watchdog,

Is it me, or did the CAD $ just move 3% since we chatted? No one will notice until it’s 1.09.”
——————————————————————-

The busch league Canadian Dollar will never see $1.09 in a long time, if ever..

#139 dingus gittens on 02.20.13 at 11:56 am

In reply to #132

OMERS has cronies like everywhere else – the bosses were sued by the Union members. The were cleared of all charges but really, do these guys ever get found guilty

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/columnists/2007/12/15/omers_head_facing_lawsuit_over_pay.html

#140 Goldfinger on 02.20.13 at 11:58 am

Wait till the MSM starts spreading the news on those condo numbers yesterday….ouch….Brad Lamb’s gonna be working for Garth soon! lol

#141 Herb on 02.20.13 at 12:03 pm

#81 Smoking Man,

yea, I’m old, but I don’t have to google “some words in philosophy” because I majored in it. (I’m prepared to discuss the utility/futility of that degree in a separate education thread if there is one.)

I don’t “try and brand the Oracle of this site” because our self-proclaimed oracle is doing a great job of that itself. And I really don’t think that this site needs you saving it.

Don’t get the impression that I’m picking on you. I can resist anything except temptation, and when you lead with your chin, well …

#142 kreditanstalt on 02.20.13 at 12:07 pm

Boomers have no savings?

Really?

Could be most of us don’t work for “companies”.

Aren’t in government cushy jobs.

Don’t have savings.

Aren’t unionized.

Aren’t in resource industries.

Aren’t making “income”.

Time to open your eyes and look around. Forget the “statistics”.

#143 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 12:21 pm

#135 Ret — “ING Bank, now owned by [BNS], PC Financial owned by CIBC, and today we find out that early in February, Ally Bank was quietly bought out by the RBC. High interest savings accounts (HISA) now pay 1.2%, down from Ally’s 1.8%.

Not so much as a murmur from the Competition Bureau of Canada, MIA once again.”

Maybe you just got the news about Ally, but it was definitely in the press when it happened. PC Financial is only partially ‘owned’ by CIBC, CIBC is the provider of some of the services. The OSFI regulates 151 deposit taking institutions in Canada, and there’s credit unions on top of that. Here’s a nice long list for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_and_credit_unions_in_Canada

I don’t see what you’re complaining about anyway. “High” interest savings accounts aren’t where it’s at anyway. Put your money to work, already!

#144 HogtownIndebted on 02.20.13 at 12:32 pm

Thinking about pensions some more:

On balance, why would it not be a sure-fire winning election campaign strategy for the Liberals (or NDP ) to promise to return the retirement age to 65, perhaps even enhancing the CPP?

I am sure they are looking into that. The demographic tsunami would wash F and the Peckerettes out of office in an instant, IMHO.

#145 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 12:37 pm

#139 AK on 02.20.13 at 11:55 am

“The busch league Canadian Dollar will never see $1.09 in a long time, if ever..”

It hit $1.10 in 2007.

#146 gladiator on 02.20.13 at 12:38 pm

Garth, how about using this pic in one of your posts:

DELETED

#147 western observer on 02.20.13 at 12:43 pm

Boomers will stay in their houses and continue to use them as atms.

They do not want to loose their status among their peers.

They will suck every last penny ( nickel now, I guess) out of their homes in reverse mortgages.

I know of a Contractor in his mid 60’s that says if the mortgage rates went up 1% he would be in serious financial trouble as his house is mortgaged to the hilt.

He is currently getting basement suite ready for renting.

Boomers will not leave their houses, they are used to a privileged life , too hard to change now.

#148 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 12:50 pm

Gold is denser than lead, and it’s been really showing it lately. Some might call bullion’s recent decline “barbarous!”

Still, don’t have enough. Will need to buy some more at some point.

#149 Daisy Mae on 02.20.13 at 1:16 pm

#101 Juno: “Traditionally they saved enough to retire. But imagine retiring and realizing you’re a broke ass bum.”

*****************

Well, collectively we’ve lost trillions in retirement savings — millions wiped out thanks to Lehman Bros, Wall Street, Fannie and Freddie, et al — ‘greed, corruption and mismanagement’.

Now we watch our house values drop…..

#150 Daisy Mae on 02.20.13 at 1:21 pm

CBC: “B.C. Finance Minister Mike de Jong begins a sales job today, pitching voters on a budget that contains few goodies to sway undecideds and some mine fields sure to irk its staunchest supporters.”

********************

BC has been downgraded by Moodys. Few BC taxpayers are going to be impressed with anything this government has to say….

#151 bigrider on 02.20.13 at 1:23 pm

Nice call to exit gold and gold stocks last year Garth. You won your own coin flip.

Where are all the gold pumpers on this site anyway? Awfully quite from them.

#152 Drill Baby Drill on 02.20.13 at 1:25 pm

#103 Who Cares

By the tone of your blog and the name calling it is obvious I hit a sore spot. Alberta has been the pressure relief valve for the other provinces since the mid 1970’s. I know because I am one of the transplanted. Your lower level of intellect shone thru on your post. You are a poor debater “Who Cares”

#153 Paul on 02.20.13 at 1:26 pm

How can one find out if there’s a mortgage on a property?

Thanks

#154 Eno, J on 02.20.13 at 1:30 pm

What goes up must come down…physics
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b49_1361307798

#155 jess on 02.20.13 at 1:35 pm

Do you think in time these head-worn computers will soon be wired into the brains that lead some humans to mis – steps/deeds and also eliminate the need to receive gifts in order to stimulate their endorphins?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21525383

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/14634-pogo-sticks-it-to-the-sec

POGO writes, “Former employees of the Securities and Exchange Commission routinely help corporations try to influence S.E.C. rule-making, counter the agency’s investigations of suspected wrongdoing, soften the blow of S.E.C. enforcement actions, block shareholder proposals and win exemptions from federal law.”

No wonder the SEC has granted special waivers to business on some 350 occasions that, according to the report, “softened the blow of enforcement actions.” What’s more, a year ago, The New York Times reported that “Close to half of the waivers went to repeat offenders — Wall Street firms that had settled previous fraud charges by agreeing never again to violate the very laws that the SEC was now saying that they had broken.” The plot thickens, or in this case, sickens…

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/14634-pogo-sticks-it-to-the-sec

#156 Devore on 02.20.13 at 1:36 pm

Scotia Bank just offered me a credit card limit increase, nearly double. A limited time offer too. Apparently I am only extra credit worthy for the next 2 months. I am urged to accept the increase, so I can take advantage of last-minute travel deals. So tempting.

#157 StocksRHot2013 on 02.20.13 at 1:49 pm

#155 title search and/or land registry through a lawyer

#158 Sebee on 02.20.13 at 2:00 pm

#139 AK

Just to be clear, I mean $1.09 CAD to 1USD.

#159 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 2:01 pm

#158 Devore — “Scotia Bank just offered me a credit card limit increase”

Call them and ask them to tell you all the offers you are eligible for. Last year, signing up for a new card they gave me 0.9% for 10 months with no extra fee for a cash advance. I pulled 3/4 of my credit limit and invested it. Make sure you don’t use the card for anything else, otherwise you’ll have a hard time proving to the CRA that the interest paid was on money borrowed for investment purposes. And don’t forget about RBC’s MyProject Mastercard. $40k for 6 months at 0%!

#160 HogtownIndebted on 02.20.13 at 2:08 pm

#140 dingus gittens

As you say, they were cleared of the charges. But I agree with you, and there is no justification for such large executive compensation, anywhere. If you are an entrepreneur, by all means make a pile of dough since you’ve earned it. CEOs are not entrepreneurs, not even close.

For a good starting discussion for how there is absolutely no correlation between executive compensation and performance, see the book “The Drunkard’s Walk”

http://www.thedivineconspiracy.org/Z5274I.pdf

(never thought I’d cite a weblink with the word ‘conspiracy’ in it, sheesh, but this one lets you read a free chapter – it’s also on Amazon)

Socialism for inbred cliques of executives is as bad as the other kinds, but far more destructive to society.

#161 juno on 02.20.13 at 2:08 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/02/20/business-teranet-housing-index.html

Even the governments Franken-numbers can no long hide the real estate price losses. You can guarantee the losses are alot worst. But it shows the tides are changing.

Note although some places the prices has risen. But it may be comparing apples to oranges. I’ve noticed a couple of years ago old tear me downs were selling. But they all been replaced with spankin new houses and condo;s now. So of course the prices has risen.

But note there are less new builds recently so pretty soon your going to be comparing the new houses sold today verse 2-5 year old places which should have depreciating value due to the build aging not land

#162 Devore on 02.20.13 at 2:10 pm

#74 Shawn Allen

Imagine an old time rural farm village. Would they have encouraged the old folks to do absolutely nothing productive? It clearly would make no sense on the farm and it makes no sense in the City either, though it’s a little less obvious in the City, where useful work is first translated into a “job” whereas on the farm one just pitches in and does the work.

Just like there is a buyer for EVERY asset, at some price, there is limitless work that needs doing, at some price. Unfortunately, increasing and tightening labour and employment regulations make it very hard to hire casual workers. Retired and semi-retired people (and teenagers too! do kids even know what a summer job is these days?) get to sit idle, as opportunities to be doing something useful are steadily diminished over time.

#163 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 2:13 pm

Whenever I told people I wanted to be a philosopher they would Socrates me mercilessly. I’ve had a lot on my Plato while trying to carve my own little Nietzsche in life. But I know there’s nothing I Kant do if I put my mind-body to it. Those who don’t like it can go to Hegel. ;)

#164 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 2:16 pm

Uh Oh, grumpiness and discontent over at the Toronto Star. Bob Aaron, a real estate lawyer whose previous columns have all been about real estate and the law, is now reduced to rebutting Gail Vaz-Oxlade’s assertion that homeownership isn’t for everyone. His arguments could be summed up as “most of my clients made money during the boom, even the ones who shouldn’t have bought in the first place.” Well duh, Bob. He even quotes an agent as saying “Homeownership is about the enjoyment of one’s life, of raising a family and having something that speaks to the world: This is mine!” Whatever Bob.

http://www.thestar.com/life/homes/2013/02/15/homeownership_not_about_crunching_numbers_bob_aaron.html

But hey, their personal finance columnist was paying Rogers “close to $600 a month for a landline phone, four wireless phones, cable TV and Internet service.”

#165 Humpty Dumpty on 02.20.13 at 2:19 pm

There are those who fail to plan…

Then there are those who plan when all else fails…

http://www.financialsense.com/node/10533

#166 Dr. Hoof Hearted on 02.20.13 at 2:20 pm

Higher Ed-ewe-cation

I like to read articles and listen to interviews by (2) ex female Dr’s in the US.

They were bounced out of the profession when they opened their eyes and saw what was really going on.

However, they now act as heath care consultants.

One of them mentioned their medical school training…how it was almost a programming via exhaustion. Classes,study late, little sleep..repeat.

Her view is it was so you wouldn’t ask questions..simply regurgitate , graduate, certified.

A lot of formal ed-ewe-cation is waste -of- time fillers to keep otherwise useless “can’t do “employed.

#167 Dupcheck on 02.20.13 at 2:23 pm

Talking about “greed”, why do two retired boomers need a 3-4-5, bedroom houses, 2-3 washrooms, and lots of space i bet you? Isn’t that greed? They should start eating the drywall and plywood instead since they admire lots of empty rooms filled with dolls and laily looly hippy colors. They need a reality check.

#168 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 2:24 pm

#155 Paul — “How can one find out if there’s a mortgage on a property?”

You don’t need to go through a lawyer, though that’s one way. In Ontario, you have to go to the local Land Registry Office and pay $9. You can usually get the terms of the mortgage (holder, amount financed, interest rate etc.), though I suppose those new collateral charge mortgages would have a too-high rate and a too-high amount.

Or hire someone to do it for you, e.g. a quick google of land registry search ontario turns up:
http://www.documental.ca/services/land_registry_search.htm
…who’ll do it for about $65. I’m sure things are similar in other provinces.

#169 The Prophet Elijah on 02.20.13 at 2:25 pm

Sounds like the $1B Alberta deficit for this year is turning out to be more like $4B. So what is that going to make the expected $6B for next years budget. What have these people done gambled in the OTC derivatives market like JP Morgan?!
I think the RE cartel should just submit to Garth.

#170 walltiger on 02.20.13 at 2:26 pm

Sadly, all these Boomers with their clumsy oxygen tanks and irritating walkers aren’t going to croak soon, either. Life expectancy is rocketing higher, ensuring lots of today’s 60-year-olds will still be staggering around in twenty-five years.

LMAF.
Sir. Garth sure have a way with words.

#171 a prairie dawg on 02.20.13 at 2:26 pm

Housing slaves. China style.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/20/chinas-housing-slaves-need-lifetime-to-pay-off-mortgages/

#172 Devore on 02.20.13 at 2:32 pm

#69 Tim

Why would there be a demographics-driven housing issue in Canada 10 years ago? Did this “some demographer” misplace a decimal point, or forget when retirement age is?

Only a small uptick in sellers is required to put the hurt on real estate. A couple thousand extra listings in a city like Toronto or Vancouver is very dire. At the same time as buyers disappear? Disastrous.

Having family and strangers move into your house to support you in retirement reduces demand for more real estate.

Immigration is hardly the answer either. Government’s own statistics bear it out. Most new immigrants can barely afford to even rent a cubbyhole in the sky. We could go for sale, like so many countries in trouble. Buy a house, get Canadian citizenship for your family. Somehow I don’t think that’s a future we’re looking forward to. Importing skilled immigrants not the panacea it’s made out to be either. Seemingly simple things like recognition and acceptance of credentials and work experience have been barriers for decades. And where are all the jobs for them? 9% Canadians already unemployed, you can’t just snap your fingers and create an economy out of nothing.

#173 walltiger on 02.20.13 at 2:43 pm

#43
My retirement plan, I will make sure I have enough money for a fexible dryer hose, and a tank of gas. Good night Irene

and a bottle of red!

#174 Edward on 02.20.13 at 2:45 pm

The kids will take the houses off the hands of the Boomers, with a pretend promise to pay, welsh on that, and force their folks into those stacked cat carriers known as “condos”–which by that time will probably be selling for $50K tops. I’m convinced that’s what the grand master plan was for all these condos in the first place–they’re retirement homes in waiting! Make GenY buy them for a fortune and pay for the construction, then take them over for dirt cheap once the kids realize what a huge mistake they’ve made.

The names of Condo Buildings even sound like old age homes! Ashley Terrace, Bloorwood Manor, Bellair Gardens…

Woe is the person who lives in a condo now. Hope you have a fetish for grey hair and saggy bums! …But hey, at least you’ll have nurses running up and down the halls.

#175 Devore on 02.20.13 at 2:47 pm

#70 presley1000

$38 million tear-down in Vancouver…

Interesting marketing strategy. A previous version of the story, or perhaps same story on different site, mentioned the property is assessed at $6.5M, but they’re listing for $38M because of what the buyer could potentially develop it into. (And from the aerial, I don’t see how they’re subdividing this lot into 3 parcels, unless they’re so tiny you’re actually reducing the value of the land.)

This realtor seems to have failed Econ 101. You can’t charge full price for potential, unless you develop it yourself. $38M for a building site? Not even a plot of land in downtown would fetch that, and we’re talking 50 floors of sky cubbyholes, not a couple of bungs, even if they do have minarets on the corners in the artist’s gaudy rendering.

#176 Holy Crap wheres the Tylenol on 02.20.13 at 3:02 pm

So it would appear that based on our current situation above that we are all F#$$@d? As a Baby Boomer I would say that a great amount of gratitude goes to my parents to who went through a depression, a world war and several other catastrophes over the last century. The Boomer Generation went through great social changes and thought they could create a world to give Peace a Chance! (Thanks John Lennon) The younger generation has never been through a war or depression and their mentality is much different. My parents impressed upon me the importance of saving and paying cash for everything. When you could afford it you bought it. The exception to the rule was of course a home. That was pretty much the only item I initially borrowed for, however I paid off my first home 5 years after purchase. Since 1979 I have owned every home I had and paid cash for them. With the home paid for I took my liquid cash and invested wisely. I am not saying that I was always a winner in investing but you win some and you loose some. In the end I am extremely comfortable. My home however has never really been an investment but rather my abode, a comfortable place for my family and myself. So when my home went up in price I looked at my wife and said that the price of our property is insane! It is not really worth that much money. This was the herd mentality and investors driving up prices over the last 30 years. When it comes down in price I feel that it will be more in line with reality. Yes it would be great to unload at top dollar but this is my home and I like it and I don’t give a dam if I loose 25% or more in its value. It was never really worth that much anyway! Ok back to Boomers now! Most of the Boomer Generation would have had the same situation with their parents so if they have not planned for a rainy day (as my parents would say) then yes they are screwed. If they hoped the property was their golden goose than I hope they like their eggs scrambled. You cannot say we didn’t see this one coming, with 60 million retires hitting the streets any day now across North America. The New Generation is most likely even more screwed as the ad hoc Boomers retire and take their cash out of savings very little will remain for an estate. We need to impress upon the New Generation that they need liquid cash savings put away, invest wisely not going for the risky high end yields but something diversified, slow and steady. They are the ones I worry about not the Boomers. My point is the younger generation is what I call the Instant Gratification Generation! They all want the newest Smart phone, Sexiest BMW, trips the Mayan Rivera twice a year, a McMansion complete with ceramic tiles, hardwood, marble, stainless steel appliances, going out to eat at high end restaurants and they want it now! On credit or mortgaged to the hilt, and so on. I will end this part of the rant as I have made my point! My parents told me what it was like to be poor and not eat. The New Generation has never heard of skipping meals or skipping days without eating. They have never seen rations for fuel and basic materials. While the Boomer Generation did not ever have these issues either they did grow up with parents that did go through this. God help them I hope that their parents were as wise as mine and taught me some valuable lessons about saving and investing! Buy the way I am considering investing in Depends, Oxygen Tanks, Walkers, Viagra, and many other pharmaceuticals.

Happy Retirement Boomers, Peace!

#177 Dupcheck on 02.20.13 at 3:19 pm

@: #137 Harvard Grad on 02.20.13 at 11:53 am

Allowing the whole world to come here is not good either. Then we become a 3rd world country with no jobs and too many people depending on social assistance. Have you ever been at the Toronto airport? It looks more like Delhi than Toronto. We need the best to come here not everyone, otherwise we are no better.

I am an immigrant myself, but I did not come to Canada to find out it looks like another country where everyone gathers in their own little crowds, I came to Canada to become Canadian and as such speak English or French in public and only raise the Canadian flag outside. At home do whatever you like.

#178 jess on 02.20.13 at 3:31 pm

The REinventors

Clinton : on bank regulators

“When I was out in New Hampshire in 1992, I heard more grief about the regulation of the private sector by the Comptroller of the Currency than any other single thing. And now every time I go to New England, they say, we’re making money, we’re making loans, and we can function, because we finally got somebody down there in Washington who understands how to have responsible and safe banking regulations, and still promote economic growth. I hear it every time I go up there, and I thank you, sir, for what you’ve done on that. (Applause.)”…

http://clinton6.nara.gov/1995/02/1995-02-21-president-remarks-at-regulatory-reform-event.html
‘reinventors’ of government…

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/02/reinventing-government-the-1995-speeches-announcing-the-road-to-ruin.html#more-4830

=====================
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14673-nine-economic-facts-that-will-make-your-head-spin
8. A retired couple needs a quarter million for retirement – just for healthcare.

In 2011, 53 percent of Americans feared they wouldn’t have enough money to live comfortably in retirement, up from only 41 percent in 2004.

They have good reason. Research from 2010 shows that soaring healthcare costs indicate that a couple must sock away $250,000 for medical expenses, taking into consideration Medicare premiums, copayments and deductibles, out-of-pocket prescription costs, and a life expectancy of 85 for women and 82 for men.

so if 1/2 of americans are considered poor does this mean life expectancy goes way down
Nine Economic Facts That Will Make Your Head Spin
Wednesday, 20 February 2013 10:07 By Lynn Parramore, AlterNet | Report
=========
distressed asset debt” or “DAD” shelter.
In a typical DAD shelter, a U.S. taxpayer (operating through various partnerships) purchases junk foreign debt for pennies on the dollar and then claims big paper tax losses—losses that were really sustained by a foreign lender

#179 AK on 02.20.13 at 3:35 pm

#162 Sebee on 02.20.13 at 2:00 pm

“#139 AK

Just to be clear, I mean $1.09 CAD to 1USD.”
——————————————————————-

I see. It should be there by march 01, 2013. Then down to 0.75 cents by the end of 2013.

#180 Deb on 02.20.13 at 3:36 pm

I really wish we could put to rest this idea that poor older folks resort to eating cat food to survive. No doubt there are older people who struggle to make ends meet. However, the cat food myth is gross, absurd, and doesn’t even make sense. Have you looked at the price of cat food these days? Not cheap.

#181 AK on 02.20.13 at 3:42 pm

#146 Inglorious Investor on 02.20.13 at 12:37 pm

“#139 AK on 02.20.13 at 11:55 am

“The busch league Canadian Dollar will never see $1.09 in a long time, if ever..”

It hit $1.10 in 2007.”
——————————————————————-

That was the past. I am talking about going forward. The days of the Loonie being above par to the Green Buck are over my friend.

#182 thinker on 02.20.13 at 3:48 pm

If you think about F’s policy change, it’s was designed to support condo’s and slow house prices, however the opposite is happening

1) Now only strong hands can buy house 20% down
2) The impact on a condo, basically nothing as 30y to 25y ammo change on 300k is less then 150$ a month and 95% leverage still available.

If he really wanted to cool Condo’s, he would have changed the downpayment to 20%. The condo selling problem was already in his framework, but now one really thinks to read between the lines.

#183 Berniebee on 02.20.13 at 3:57 pm

#125 Bargains Everywhere

” I have to agree with many others here that Boomers will do whatever it takes to stay in their houses.”

Here’s a story for you:
Five years ago, my (seven years) older brother, a detached house owner in the Montreal west island burbs swore he would die in his bungalow.
But now at 63, with a mortgage still outstanding, little other assets, looking at rising property taxes, and laid off from a sales job, the wife and him have put their house on the market. They are moving to a trailer on their daughters rural property. The wife will continue to commute to her west island job, and he is now self-employed in his former industry, working part time.
My brother is not involved in the real estate biz and has not even heard of this blog , but he knows what a boomer is. I think his words are prophetic. “I’m selling before all of the rest of the old farts sell and prices go to sh*t.” He has a way with words, don’t you think?

#184 walltiger on 02.20.13 at 4:38 pm

#122 Dr.Hoof Hearted.

you are delusional and paranoid.

#185 Herb on 02.20.13 at 4:39 pm

#167 Inglorious Investor,

that’s pretty good!

#186 World View on 02.20.13 at 4:40 pm

The death rate in the so called developed world will rise soon. And probably suicides will be the main cause!

#187 Chet Sanders on 02.20.13 at 4:42 pm

With a 57 % decline in reproduction, the world will be a better place with fewer humanoids.

#188 brico9 on 02.20.13 at 4:43 pm

Here is an event I am sure GT is not invited.

The University of Calgary is giving a lecture and a pat on the back to our great leaders who have done all Canadians a great service with their RE lending programs.

One Step Ahead: How leadership kept Canadian real estate ahead of the game

https://netcommunity.ucalgary.ca/haskayne/onestepahead?erid=8675459&trid=52e4ceae-1f41-4c49-8fdc-abdf49c02bdd

Have your $80.00 ready. It is: BYOBB – bring your own barf bag

#189 juno on 02.20.13 at 4:48 pm

#155 Paul

How can one find out if there’s a mortgage on a property?

Thanks
==========
On the Land titles document, they will show you info about the Parcel , Titles and Owner Info. On the bottom of the document will be leans, leases mortgage etc

#190 Smoking Man on 02.20.13 at 4:58 pm

Herb your funny, but did you see how easy and fast I became an expert inpphilosophy, back in your day, schools where the only game in town. I different now..

One can follow my leed.. Empty the brain, and just focus on what’s relevant to solving the problem. You have much more room In the coconut, it’s much more efficient way of thinking.

How was the for a chin leed… You tempted lol

#191 jess on 02.20.13 at 5:02 pm

those students that are unemployed /homeless poor might take on another mission and start speaking about decarbonizing

another budget
2,795 is five times 565 and 2degrees celsius
To have a 50-50 chance of keeping temperature rise below 2 degrees, humans would have to stick to a carbon budget that allowed the release of no more than 1,437 gigatons of carbon dioxide from 2000 to 2050
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20140213/climate-change-science-carbon-budget-nature-global-warming-2-degrees-bill-mckibben-fossil-fuels-keystone-xl-oil?page=show
http://350.org/

#192 juno on 02.20.13 at 5:04 pm

#187 Berniebee on 02.20.13 at 3:57 pm

#125 Bargains Everywhere
===============
I agree they will stay there for as long as they can. But I’ve notice many oldies had their kids move back home or moved to the kids house during the older years (70 ish) Then there are they ones that will move to old people homes. They keep the house, but the kids take over . While they go to retirement homes.

Basically your getting two family moving to 1 house.

After they die, the kids usually split the house and sell just so they can split the $$$ cause all they want is their share. So, it doesn’t matter when or how, eventually our population will decline of working people as for immigration, Why, so they could come to this country to pay taxes to support the “Moldy ones”.

They can easily move to the state for 1/4 of the price. Or to greece spain or one of the countries already on the downhill spiral .
Th

#193 Mike on 02.20.13 at 5:09 pm

That is a really good post Mr Turner.

I agree with your position that we are in for a long, slow, painful draining of our ‘wealth’ and subsequent future in-ability to re-acquire it.

I have posted here before, a speech by James Wolfensohn, former head of the World Bank and his prediction (confession) of what lies ahead.

The short:

2001

rich countries (Canada US Japan Germany etc) have 1 billion population but account for 80% of global GDP

developing countries (China Indonesia India etc) by contrast have 5 billion population but only make 20% of global GDP

with the direction things are headed by 2050

rich countries 1.1 billion population 35% GDP

developing (developed by then) 9 billion population and 65% GDP

adjust the numbers for variances along the way

this mirrors your forecast

I am of the strong opinion of this being done by design but the point is moot.

The Long:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a0zhc1y_Ns

the speech lasts only 25 minutes then Q and A

THIS is what is happening, right in front of our eyes. People who can spot a trend will be fine. Those that don’t can count on a long lasting supply of Meow Mix.

#194 bigrider on 02.20.13 at 5:16 pm

Where the heck are the gold pumpers ? !

In bed with the house humpers ?? !!

Got their heads slammed between car bumpers !!!

#195 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 5:36 pm

Yo Hoof,

I think there’s a big difference between an ex-female doctor and a female ex-doctor. Just sayin’.

#196 spaceman on 02.20.13 at 5:39 pm

Here in Victoria, for the most part, the 60 plus crowd seem to be established, have owned the home for a decade or 2, and owe little. And don’t plan to sell or downsize. My neighbourhood is full of them. Mostly retired already, 60-85, and intend to stay in thier homes for as long as they can. there is a movement in North America for in home care, institutions are too expensive to maintain, and now group type homes are the norm. I can see group type homes for the Elderly, where they stay in their paid up house, and get care from community services into their 80s and 90s.

If this is the scenario, boomers dumping, and this it it, then why is this not happening in the US right now? Just the opposite. Economy is coming back full steam, house prices are jumping.

If anything, buy property within the inner city, that has apartment potential, before boomers head to the home, typically they will downsize to condos, not townhouse, too many stairs. My 82 year old Uncle just sold his property in Surrey, and bought a 1 BDR Condo in Guilford.

Real Estate is an inflation hedge, (at the bottom of the cycle that is) so it will always increase at the rate of inflation, and its a roof over your head.

Demographics have an affect, but are not the determining factor, greed and perception are. Not many people believe what Garth says to be true, therefore another property bubble after this crash is sure to develop. it is already happening in the US.

#197 smartalox on 02.20.13 at 5:41 pm

My financial planner commented the other day that all the books about the coming Boomer surge were written 15 years too early. Time to go searching through the back catalogs.

I’m beginning to doubt that there is an oversupply of condos though. I’m waiting for some innovative REIT to start snapping up luxury downtown condo towers to rent shoeboxes as retirement facilities. No need to drive, shopping, theatres, transit all under one roof. Some, like Marine gateway in Vancouver are even connected to transit, to whisk car free boomers downtown, to the casino, or possibly, to the airport.

The best facilities will hand some portion of the units dedicated to different degrees of managed care, from nurses’ visits (all under one roof) to meal assistance, to palliative care in the same location, so your neighbours can still visit you as you slip away.

But it won’t happen yet; too many people clinging to the lives that they used to lead. Like all great ideas about cashing in on the boomers, it’s 15 years ahead of its time. Too bad to, if it were timed better, condo speculators and mcmansion owning suburbanites could swap properties 1 to 1.

If you can hold your money losing condo allotments long enough, you might actually be able to make a buck. But if you’re over-extended and looking for a quick exit, you’re probably screwed.

#198 Victoria on 02.20.13 at 5:52 pm

I think you are wrong in this regard, Garth. Yes, boomers will be dumping million dollar homes, but will they be necessarily renting? Or will they rather think of downsizing (thus supplying demand for all those condos)? I for one, don’t no anyone who would willingly even consider renting after owning for so many years. One couple I know has a million in equity – – they will be buying a condo in GTA and a condo in Florida and spending the rest (about 500K).

#199 Alex on 02.20.13 at 5:55 pm

Germany repatriating its gold in case of a currency crisis?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2013/01/16/germany-repatriating-gold-from-ny-paris-in-case-of-a-currency-crisis/

#200 ted on 02.20.13 at 6:04 pm

Hey Garth its RRSP season. What do you think of REIT’s? Will the real estate downturn affect them much? I am looking for something that has a decent dividend payment since I really don’t think the stock market is going up right now. Is there any dividend stocks you can recommend for us?

#201 DDCorkum on 02.20.13 at 6:10 pm

#18 Chester on 02.19.13 at 9:15 pm

“Is it better to cash out or take the Government Pension seeing that the debt and demographics is going to be an issue to defined benefit plans?”

—————-

I think this partly depends on age. If you are over 40 then you are probably safe, because very few pension changes are done retro-actively. The public service union will fight tooth and nail to protect existing pensioners.

But if you are under 40… consider taking the money out now. As fewer and fewer people collect pensions, there will be very little sympathy for the few who still do. You might still be alive when the general public votes in a government that is willing to harm existing pensions.

Furthermore, if you are younger then there is more potential to invest and produce a return which is greater than what the deferred annuity would be. This is another reason in favour of taking money now if you are below 40.

#202 John Prine on 02.20.13 at 6:11 pm

80 Holy Crap wheres the Tylenol on 02.20.13 at 3:02 pm

So it would appear that based on our current situation above that we are all F#$$@d? As a Baby Boomer I would say that a great amount of gratitude goes to my parents to who went through a depression, a world war and several other catastrophes over the last century. The Boomer Generation went through great social changes and thought they could create a world to give Peace a Chance! (Thanks John Lennon)
——————————————————————-

Well said, it’s nice to see a comment that describes many of us, I am 62 and followed a similar life pattern. Not rich but saved a little from every pay check from 40 onwards. My friends don’t carry debt and most realized 25 years ago that you had to save as nobody else is going to look after you when you retire. Many of the “Boomers” that are constantly vilified here must be somewhere else as we don’t seem to have them around here…..Just sayin’

#203 Dr. Hoof Hearted on 02.20.13 at 6:29 pm

#199 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 5:36 pm

Yo Hoof,

I think there’s a big difference between an ex-female doctor and a female ex-doctor. Just sayin’.

===========================

Thanks Ralphie….

Just keeping ya on yer toes…

#204 Buy? Curious? on 02.20.13 at 6:29 pm

I say let’s have more immigrants! Let’s make Canada the the first world state!

#205 The Prophet Elijah on 02.20.13 at 6:36 pm

#153 bigrider on 02.20.13 at 1:23 pm Nice call to exit gold and gold stocks last year Garth. You won your own coin flip.

Where are all the gold pumpers on this site anyway? Awfully quite from them.
———————————————————-
Garth will be proven wrong about gold. Mark my word.

But I’m already right. If you sold at $1,900, or rebalanced on each price swing, you have made money. Isn’t that why you invest? — Garth

#206 Mike on 02.20.13 at 6:43 pm

# 204
Garth its RRSP season. What do you think of REIT’s?

REITs don’t own houses

they own malls, office towers etc etc

get into the ones that own the space the banks lease

is what Mr Turner would likely say, if it hadn’t been said plenty of times before

hope it helps

#207 Mister Obvious on 02.20.13 at 6:53 pm

#200 spacemen

“Here in Victoria, for the most part, the 60 plus crowd seem to be established, have owned the home for a decade or 2, and owe little. And don’t plan to sell or downsize. My neighbourhood is full of them. Mostly retired already, 60-85, and intend to stay in their homes for as long as they can.”

———————————-
There’s one thing you haven’t considered. Aging Single Family Houses cost a ton of money to maintain. Especially those in soggy old Victoria. There’s always something going wrong and preventative maintenance is low on the priority list of most seniors.

(In many condos, for example, you can’t get the old timers on the strata council to jar loose for a fresh paintjob or new carpets in the lobby).

When SFH’s start falling apart it’s stressful. Even for younger owners who still have incomes. For retired people its very tough especially if income is low while all that home equity remains inaccessible.

Its a risky road. The mother of a close friend followed the scenario you have outlined. It turned into a nightmare. It was a reasonably good house but the elderly lady simply could not keep it up and it started to go to seed very quickly.

I might add that her children were not particularly eager to fret much over the state of her home while they were so busy with their own homes, children and jobs.

#208 Dr. Hoof Hearted on 02.20.13 at 6:53 pm

#188 walltiger on 02.20.13 at 4:38 pm

#122 Dr.Hoof Hearted.

you are delusional and paranoid.

=====================================

You not paying attention grasshopper…more later…

#209 Cy Young on 02.20.13 at 7:12 pm

Drill Baby Drill

I’m really getting tired of hearing how Hellberta is carrying Canada or some BS like that. BC is a have province we were a have province before you back water hicks ever got your oil industry going and if it wasn’t for equalization payments from out East you hicks would be owned by the Americans, oh wait….

#210 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 02.20.13 at 7:39 pm

Duly note the photo was staged, not spontaneous.

Notice the changes in the camera angle and the cloud formation.

Trivia: What 1950s TV show does this remind you of ?

#211 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 02.20.13 at 7:45 pm

-
For those that are interested, here is the latest Arsehole Jamboree. “THE picturesque parts of Britain are now full of utter dickbags, it has emerged.”
*
#122 Dr. Hoof Hearted — “I find it interesting that not a peep about this is being spoken in the American press; Mexicans are very upset about this . . .” — From the paid-for and controlled m$m? The ones who control don’t want this in the open. Better to read one of the trashy tabloids — a lot of truth in them!

#167 Inglorious Investor — Nice play on names / words!

#190 World View — “And probably suicides will be the main cause!” — Would be interesting to see the correlation between SSRIs (anti-depressants and the like), and suicides / mass shootings.

It is quite clear that a lot of the armed forces cannot live with the horror they have caused, and have taken the quicker option available. This world is not getting any easier to live in.

#198 bigrider — “Where the heck are the gold pumpers ? !

“In bed with the house humpers ?? !!

“Got their heads slammed between car bumpers !!!” — Again, great limericks (sorta!)

#212 AK on 02.20.13 at 7:55 pm

Anybody interested??

Springsteen’s ‘Born to Run’ House for Sale

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/springsteens-born-run-house-sale-204708574.html

#213 polecat on 02.20.13 at 7:57 pm

I’m 39, Have boomer parents. Yeah, they had the good days. I remember in 93 with a diploma in marine engineering and had to take any job to survive. Recession and all. Boomers still had the good jobs. I’m not bitter, these are our parents and times change. Seeing my brother living at home becayse of insane rents, well, I’m glad he’s there with them, I’m not far up the road. Seeing this as a bit of a trend in my own little circle. Kind of a societal shift, they are kind of forced to help each other financially and with everyday stuff. May not work for all but glad they can afford to stay in their home and brother isn’t going broke for no reason. He has cash to fix the place and help out with chores. The boomers are people too, our people. Let’s stop blaming them for being born at a certain time and start helping each other, we will all need it.

#214 claudius emperor on 02.20.13 at 7:58 pm

60 percents of the canadians would work over 65 years of age – full time.

Time to introduce 60 years mortgages. Seriously.

#215 maxx on 02.20.13 at 8:18 pm

#62 westcanguy on 02.19.13 at 10:48 pm

Caught me off guard- howlingly funny!! Thanks for the laugh westcanguy!!

#216 Alex on 02.20.13 at 8:23 pm

#70 presley 1000

could, would etc.
Let us know when it sells, sorry if it sells for a fraction.
Those fools don’t even live on this planet, joke of the year so far.

#217 Herb on 02.20.13 at 8:29 pm

#194 Smoking Man,

naw, not tempted. Back in them thar days you got real food too, you know, cooked, tasty and varied. Now you’ve got fast food, such as Big Macs. Same way with learning: you can invest time and effort in an education, or you can survive on fast food. Google will instantly fill a void but lacks substance.

#218 kreditanstalt on 02.20.13 at 8:37 pm

#209 “But I’m already right. If you sold at $1,900, or rebalanced on each price swing, you have made money. Isn’t that why you invest? — Garth”

It has been called “portfolio insurance”. Over time, gold is the steadiest of assets and with a PORTION of capital in gold – capital you don’t want to play with – you protect yourself against marauding governments, the vagaries of the (un)free market, banksters, black swans…

So, no, it isn’t “an investment”.

Obviously. Thanks for clearing that up. — Garth

#219 salonist on 02.20.13 at 8:38 pm

sm
does the observation influence the observer or does the observer influence the observation

daughter and her oakville girl buds at a quebec university friday pub night out.
surmised that their university degrees are a destiny to minimum wage employment.
few beers later, a business plan. they would open a brothel in amsterdam.

who’s on first?

#220 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 02.20.13 at 8:42 pm

Hint to post 214:

It starred Jerry Mathers

#221 Garden Maven on 02.20.13 at 8:45 pm

So irritating to have boomers linked to clumsy oxygen tanks and walkers. Folks: it’s the boomers parents in their 80s and 90s who are encumbered with oxygen tanks and walkers. The boomers won’t get there for another decade or two, depending on health. Let’s not rush our demise.

#222 Devore on 02.20.13 at 8:56 pm

#132 HogtownIndebted

Unfortunately, plans like this were hogtied by really stupid federal government policies (before Garth’s time, not his fault)which did not let pensions run large surplusses.

They were also “hogtied” by their inability to increase participant contributions. As the high flying returns of yesteryear have become diluted in the long term by the lean years of recent, many plans slipped from “funded” and actually RETURNING money to participants, for reasons you note, to “underfunded”, but without the ability to quickly increase contributions to adjust to the low returns reality.

Like leverage, compounding is devastatingly effective in both directions; every year the deficit grows, it becomes more difficult to close the gap.

#223 Kilby on 02.20.13 at 9:02 pm

———————————-
There’s one thing you haven’t considered. Aging Single Family Houses cost a ton of money to maintain. Especially those in soggy old Victoria. There’s always something going wrong and preventative maintenance is low on the priority list of most seniors.
——————————————————————-

24 inches of rain per year at the Gonzales weather station, hardly “soggy” Half the rainfall of Vancouver or Qualicum Beach…Not nearly as “mossy”

#224 live within your means on 02.20.13 at 9:06 pm

#171 Dupcheck on 02.20.13 at 2:23 pm
Talking about “greed”, why do two retired boomers need a 3-4-5, bedroom houses, 2-3 washrooms, and lots of space i bet you? Isn’t that greed? They should start eating the drywall and plywood instead since they admire lots of empty rooms filled with dolls and laily looly hippy colors. They need a reality check.
…………….

Several retired boomers on our st. have large homes. They keep them because their children and grandchildren come to visit for several weeks – from one end of the country to the other.

I’m a retired boomer – no children. But, I like to have an extra bedroom, etc. to put up family/friends when they visit.

Chatted w/DH this eve. & think he’s now willing to sell the home when he might retire in 4+ yrs. Asked what he’d do with his 3 toys. Will sell 1 and find a storage place to keep the other 2. I’m SLOWLY convincing him we should sell the house & rent. We’ve no debts, home paid off years ago, some investments, but just tired of maintenance. etc. I, personally, just can’t keep up with the house cleaning & my gardens are in a mess due to health problems. Can’t find reliable people to help me, unless I want to pay a fortune for their services.

Been ill for a few days but forced myself to make a nice dinner for DH’s B’day tonight.

#225 TurnerNation on 02.20.13 at 9:17 pm

#168Ralph Cramdown

The Star is simply cowtowing the gerrymandering for RE advertisers. (Do they still use these words?)

#226 Freebird on 02.20.13 at 9:26 pm

@#60 and #72

Re: how to suck money out of RSPs

I cant tell you exactly where or when Garth covered this but I do think you missed it. I also read an intetresting strategy on another blog. Google “Greater Fool RSP” and it will give you a good start. You also Google the topic as I did.

Happy hunting men!

#227 calgary_rip_off on 02.20.13 at 9:27 pm

Nice pics Garth, especially the one on the left, in blue. What a hottie. Any woman that looks like that should be proud, she is beautiful.

And now in Alberta…

Redford and the oil people have used the $120/barrel to forecast the economy. And even though this is ludricrous this figure is used to justify cuts to doctors, teachers, nurses and technical staff in the health industry while the oil execs are sitting pretty. Everything in Alberta(and everywhere else) is staged, and a scam. Trust no one.

The real problem is the amount of oil sitting idle at the refineries. At yet gas and oil remains a rip off. The easier way would be to pipe it all to the USA(thanks Obama). Or to B.C. to china. No pipeline to B.C., so they will be shipping oil via railroad and troops will remain in the paradise of the middle east to preserve oil shipping, smartly.

As another perspective, only in the last 100 years has man become a forced domesticated being-Previous to these 100 years a man in power could take what he wanted(some of the time-except if you were a serf). Now, there is jail time if you do exactly the same thing that was done thousands of years as a general behavior(take it by force). And simultaneously, with this forced domestication which has largely implied that men with age need viagra after the daily emotional nonsense that they must contend with, just to get it up, there is better food, better housing, and laws in place to protect the elderly/less fit/feeble from dying off as previously was the case.

So the real technique is to GET THE MONEY because if you have enough money you dont have to deal with the general population, which in many cases, are sheep. And way you can, while protecting your backside legally and trying to remain as politically correct socially so you dont become a target for the sheep. However, it doesnt make sense to worry about anyone else, because noone really cares about anyone else, there are just laws and regulations either legally and/or socially that make it seem so, aka, forced domestication.

If the people on here think what we have in Canada is bad, try being like an ant on mainland China, where you too can sell your organs, or be executed swiftly if you break the law.

Compared to some places, Canada is paradise, as long as you know how to play the game.

#228 HogtownIndebted on 02.20.13 at 9:29 pm

#217 polecat

“The boomers are people too, our people. Let’s stop blaming them for being born at a certain time and start helping each other, we will all need it.”

Thank you for your humane approach. I am probably guilty of being harsh on the boomers, and your words give me pause. So I will try to forgive them, for…….

-pushing the price of real estate out of reach for the rest of us for much of our adult lives

-easily moving into management track careers because of a 1970s era labour shortage (can hardly imagine) then sitting there forever, even planning to work past 65 while the younger ones grasp for internships and hope for a pension

-never properly addressing employment equity issues in their own cohorts, so that white male boomers never had to give up a single privilege, but many of them can now take credit for bringing in ‘equity’ programs that today mean young white males are systemically discriminated against in hiring practices

-being dumb enough to support the Toronto Maple Leafs throughfor 46 years of incompetence, denying us the power of natural market forces that might have brought an actual professional hockey team to hogtown

I can forgive the baby boomers all these things, inspired by your generous spirit :)

But I can never forgive them this:

http://www.ratemymullet.com/

:(

#229 Gunboat denier on 02.20.13 at 9:30 pm

206 John – I notice the same thing. Sure there are some broke or over-mortgaged boomers, and there are also
lots of gen-xers I know that are doing extremely well. It
doesnt seem to be as generationally split as many think.

#230 Ralph Cramdown on 02.20.13 at 9:34 pm

#222 kreditanstalt –“It has been called “portfolio insurance”. Over time, gold is the steadiest of assets”

So sorry you missed yesterday’s lesson. And today’s, apparently. As John Maynard Keynes so bluntly put it, “in the long run, we’re all dead.” Gold is dead money. All of my investments are one day closer to their next dividend payment. Yours?

#231 Smoking Man on 02.20.13 at 9:40 pm

#221 Herb on 02.20.13 at 8:29 pm#194 Smoking Man,naw, not tempted. Back in them thar days you got real food too, you know, cooked, tasty and varied. Now you’ve got fast food, such as Big Macs. Same way with learning: you can invest time and effort in an education, or you can survive on fast food. Google will instantly fill a void but lacks substance.

…………………….

Substance, hum……… Ya your right, best thing I have heard about university, the parties and all that substance :)

#232 Daisy Mae on 02.20.13 at 9:43 pm

#125 Bargains Everywhere: “Several friends of my parents (slightly older than Boomers) have gone the reverse mortgage route and only when that money runs out will they ever consider selling. Boomers will do the same…”

********************

Reverse mortgages? There won’t be much, if any, equity left so they’ll be out in the cold.

#233 Smoking Man on 02.20.13 at 9:44 pm

#223 salonist on 02.20.13 at 8:38 pmsmdoes the observation influence the observer or does the observer influence the observationdaughter and her oakville girl buds at a quebec university friday pub night out.surmised that their university degrees are a destiny to minimum wage employment.few beers later, a business plan. they would open a brothel in amsterdam.who’s on first?…..

Love it, great plan. On the question. Answer =

Both:)

In the universe we have nothing and something. In between, opinions…

#234 Dr. WAYNE on 02.20.13 at 9:51 pm

#214 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 02.20.13 at 7:39 pm

Duly note the photo was staged, not spontaneous.

Notice the changes in the camera angle and the cloud formation.

======================

Staged … not necessarily. Maybe on your planet clouds and people taking photos ‘don’t move’, but here they do … check it out sometimes … could be enlightening for you.

#235 Smoking Man on 02.20.13 at 9:53 pm

#127 chicken little

Thanks, I was hoping someone would have noticed the publishing dates of those articles.. Chirp Food …. No one caught it….

If I find more I’ll post them,

#236 Freebird on 02.20.13 at 9:54 pm

@#60, #72

Re: sucking money out of mortgage

OK since I’m stuck in bed after another back surgery I searched Garth’s site and found at least one blog taking money out of RSP’s from Feb of last year. Not sure if he covered it again recently (had more important issues to keep me busy) but its a start.

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2012/02/12/planning-2/

#237 Daisy Mae on 02.20.13 at 10:08 pm

138Doug in London: “Boomers turned out to be the first-ever bunch of self-absorbed, birth-controlled hedonists who never got around to replacing themselves.”

******************

‘Boomers’ are not responsible for their numbers. Constantly blaming them for our woes is becoming very tiresome.

#238 Freebird on 02.20.13 at 10:13 pm

@#181 Dupcheck

Interesting comment. I’ve met others who moved here from India and feel the same as you. They face(d) backlash from some in their culture who expected them to stay within their “own” community and not cultivate a new social group and family were very offended at their wish to learn and adopt new traditions. I do find my friends appreciate our respect and interest in their culture and vice versa and are having fun learning about things like touques and snow blowers! So funny!

#239 Snowboid on 02.20.13 at 11:45 pm

#211 Mister Obvious on 02.20.13 at 6:53 pm…

Hear, hear – well said!

#227 Kilby on 02.20.13 at 9:02 pm…

Our former home was almost spitting distance from the Inner Harbour, and I can attest that maintenance was an increasingly difficult and expensive proposition. It took almost two days in the spring (and sometimes mid-winter) to powerwash the moss and mould off the decks, patios, sidewalks, driveway and stairs.

Paint would only last a couple of years, and the roof needed de-mossing every year. Windows would never stay clean, whenever the often horizontal rain hit, it was a 1/2 day job to clean the south side of the home!

Garry oaks and several other 100 foot trees needed trimming every year or two, and the lawn mowing season started in February. Every time a storm came in from the south, it took a day to cleanup fallen branches.

It was a nice house and area, but ongoing maintenance was no longer ‘fun’ and couldn’t see spending the extra money to have it all done for us.

#240 Who Cares on 02.21.13 at 12:06 am

#103 Who Cares

By the tone of your blog and the name calling it is obvious I hit a sore spot. Alberta has been the pressure relief valve for the other provinces since the mid 1970′s. I know because I am one of the transplanted. Your lower level of intellect shone thru on your post. You are a poor debater “Who Cares”

Ok fool, if you think that is a reponse that will get me your issues are deeper than I suspected. Facts are facts and they are as I stated them so quit whining about Alberta having to pay into the transfer fee scheme when Alberta has many times been a net recipient. The argument you and your ilk make is foolish and not founded in fact. You guys weren’t bitching all of the times things were not great in Alberta and Ontario, when it was doing well, carried all of the rest of the provinces via transfer payments.

Idiots like like you say hey help us out while we are down but don’t ask us to share when times are good for us and you are having problems. That is not the way this federation works.

It has nothing to do with any sore spots but simply those facts and one more absolute fact, without the support of the rest of this country Alberta will soon be in another bad financial fix. I could go on and explain but it is pointless with people like you, you just don’t get it because it is all about you and to hell with eveyone else until things to to shit for you then you demand help the loudest constantly ranting about that time you lent me twenty bucks because the store wouldn’t take the hundred I was trying to give them.

#241 Doug in London on 02.21.13 at 12:06 am

@HogtownIndebted, post #145:
Yes, you’re absolutely right. If the Liberals or NDP made promised such changes, they would win the election before the advanced voting even started. As for whether politicians are that clued in to what the average person wants, that’s another matter.

@bigrider, post #153:
Where are all the gold pumpers you ask? good question! When gold gets as cheap as it was in 1999 (down to $230/ounce then, or about $400 in today’s dollars) I will be the loudest, most annoyingly outspoken gold pumper here or anywhere, and probably be banned from posting on many blogs.

#242 An Cat Dubh on 02.21.13 at 12:58 am

When the boomers finish making their way through the system, I doubt future govts. will lower taxes. They will just find new ways to waste it. Look at all the school closures going on yet school taxes and costs don’t decrease. As far as teachers and public employees, taxpayers should not fund your retirement. I have no problem paying your Canada pension, but not paying you again after you retire. Your union should invest some of your union dues for that.

#243 Doug in London on 02.21.13 at 12:58 pm

@Daisy Mae, post #241:
At the beginning of my posting, I only reposted what Garth said and added my take on the subject. I fully agree it’s ridiculous blaming our generation for all society’s financial troubles. I’m a 52 year old boomer myself and somehow bucked the trend of many boomers as I have no debt, no house, but could retire on the portfolio I have accumulated if I play my cards right. I figure we boomers should be doing better financially. We lived through a period of good prosperity, and our parents lived through leaner times and were old enough to remember wartime rationing. Their parents remember both the depression and wartime rationing and learned to be efficient and frugal, and some of that mentality was passed on to their kids, and thus some of that should have been passed on to their kids, namely the boomers. We were also more educated than previous generations.