The flip

**** Reduced price ****
**** Urgent Sale ****
**** Priced approx. 60,000 under market value ****
***** Assessment sale HST included *****
This is Urgent sales. This is an assignment sale . 2+1 Den Bedroom, downtown,  with 1 parking and locker included( valued 35,000 included) . Granite counter tops and 5 stainless steel appliances included. On the 14th floor , unobstructed South West view.

Every day, in fact every hour, new ads like this one flood into Kijiji and Craigslist. Quiet. You can almost hear the anguish. It’s the sound of a market about to commit suicide. The weapon of choice is the assignment.

For the past two years developers of condo projects in Toronto and Vancouver – but especially Toronto – have told me, when I asked, how many buyers were speckers and flippers. The consistent estimate has been 80% to 90%. The real estate industry, as you might imagine, has made it simple and cheap for almost anyone to become a specuvestor. Units can be secured for just 5% down, with modest additional amounts due over the next year. And once a project’s sales book fills up, investors are often able to purchase assignment clauses which give them the right to flip.

That means they can resell something which hasn’t yet been built, hopefully for a profit, without the hassle and expense of closing the deal and taking possession. No mortgage. No double, insane Toronto land transfer tax. No big lawyer bills. It’s not a real estate transaction, but the sale of a futures contract. If the specker can pull it off, the ROI is impressive. If they’re forced to close, taking on debt and ending up with a condo that can’t be rented for enough to cover costs, a disaster. What they might do to an entire market is even worse.

But the successful flipper is an iconic deity, a role model supreme for the glassy-eyed followers of culty real estate gurus. Check out this article in a porn mag called “Canadian Real Estate Wealth.”

An iffy condo market has many investors abandoning flipping for a buy-and-hold strategy, but that may not be necessary, says one award-winning investor, suggesting there’s still profit to be made in selling up instead of renting out.

“The key is to make it sexier!” says Emil Kiriakos… Even in this market, Kiriakos is still finding success buying and selling condos. He’s buying along the waterfront and in the downtown core of Toronto, a market that has now seen a 30 per cent pullback in investor purchases as concerns about a possible value correction take hold. That speculation hasn’t deterred Kiriakos, who continues to focus on preconstruction buys – at preferred pricing – and flips after a sizable investment in staging.

Isn’t fiction fun?

But how many of these flipper gods are out there? And what damage can they cause to every homeowner?

The official CMHC estimate is that 22% of Toronto condos which are now rental units are investor-owned. Downtown it’s closer to 30%. Both numbers, say industry insiders, are vastly off the mark in a town when as many as nine of every ten new units has been snapped up for pure speculation. In fact, most investors flip, sometimes to other flippers. The only ones who actually close a deal are those who those who think condos will appreciate fast enough over a few years to make up for subsidizing renters. After all, at $700 a square foot nobody can make money being a landlord.

As for damage, flippers have effectively ridden real estate higher, increasing prices through an undocumented yet powerful shadow market that could account for up to 15,000 sales a year in Toronto alone. Their demand has helped ignite the biggest condo orgy in history, with more residential towers rising in Toronto than all other North American cities combined. Now, as supply overwhelms waning demand, flippers stand to pummel valuations as they pack the exits.

This week news hit the MSM that developers had boycotted an industry survey, refusing to disclose how many investors are assigning their units before closing. It’s needed info, to assess the true size of a shadow market that could impact all property owners as the shockwaves spread from the condo sinkhole. Moreover, most flippers are apparently tax evaders, never disclosing capital gains. Add criminality to stupidity.

While you’re at it, add rank speculation to a Canadian real estate market which has been fed by teaser mortgage rates, cash-back down payments, government giveaways, swelling debt and bankers happy to lend to people too undisciplined to save any money. And now, assignment hell.

Close your eyes. This is America, circa 2006.

168 comments ↓

#1 tarsand beetle on 11.15.12 at 9:22 pm

*cough* first

#2 Bottoms_Up on 11.15.12 at 9:34 pm

When is the CRA going to step up and start nailing these criminals?

#3 Keith in Calgary on 11.15.12 at 9:36 pm

I am not surprised that those in the real estate industry WILL NOT disclose the numbers about condo assignments, after all, when was the last time a criminal implicated themselves, or those who helped him profit ?

The CRA should create a huge task force and rip the industry apart.

#4 Johnny D on 11.15.12 at 9:37 pm

According to the Regina Leader Post, all is good here. Building permits are at record highs, prices keep going up etc etc etc…

Everyone wants to live here is what I read all the time. So anyone who wants to trade locations with me let me know.

P.S. You’ll need to buy a pickup truck, not just to fit in with all the rest of the rednecks here, but now to actually drive through the snow covered streets. The city isn’t too great at removing snow anymore as their budget priorities are currently elsewhere.

#5 eagle eyes on 11.15.12 at 9:38 pm

In a downturn market, if a developer decides not to go through with the project, or if a speculator walks, does the realtor get paid their commissions? Sometimes I hear that the realtor gets paid once they have a firm contract. Would they have to pay back their commissions if the deal goes sideways? With a mere 5% downpayment, if prices drop 5% the flippers have no skin in the game and most likely will walk. The only winners are the realtors.

#6 Smoking Man on 11.15.12 at 9:39 pm

To smashed to add good content, @ the duke working on my next million.

Bubble heads your day will come one day.

Short natural gas, kids, try it, scared don’t go all it 1000, evaluate the %

Smoking Man over and out

#7 Gogo on 11.15.12 at 9:42 pm

Garth, here is for you and your readers to “learn more”.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greggfisher/2012/01/23/chasing-the-mirage-of-hedge-fund-returns/

It is not easy for the average investor to earn 7% per year compounded. You have to be honest with your readers.

Of course not. The average investor is creamed. The smart ones get help. — Garth

#8 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 11.15.12 at 9:43 pm

Beat Dr Wanker again….

bwhahahahahaha

#9 Dr. WAYNE on 11.15.12 at 9:45 pm

#1 tarsand beetle on 11.15.12 at 9:22 pm

*cough* first

*flatulence* a$$hole !

#10 Renter's Revenge! on 11.15.12 at 9:48 pm

Am I the only one disappointed that the link wasn’t to the online version of a porn mag with an article called “Canadian Real Estate Wealth”? :(

#11 Dr. WAYNE on 11.15.12 at 9:49 pm

#7 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 11.15.12 at 9:43 pm

Beat Dr Wanker again….

DELETED

#12 IvanDrago on 11.15.12 at 9:51 pm

Cant believe these websites give article space to pump and dump clowns like that Emil Joker…. No wonder suckers are losing their shirts on condos

#13 Devore on 11.15.12 at 9:57 pm

The only damage flippers are doing is to themselves (no CMHC insurance on pre-sales) and to the housing stock, which is now weighing heavily towards 400sqft cubbyholes in the sky.

#14 Joe on 11.15.12 at 9:57 pm

Hey Garth, when are you going to write an article about all these condos being bought for money laundering? It’s pretty obvious now that this has been the goal of overseas Asian and Arab investors because for the last 5 years, Canada has been an easy place to get away with it. I’m 99.9% right about this ;)

Evidence? — Garth

#15 City Slicker on 11.15.12 at 10:02 pm

Hasn’t anyone heard that Calgary and Edmonton are becoming the RE crown jewel of Canada out doing Toronto and Vancouver, says so right here in the Calgary hearld:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Calgary+Edmonton+displace+Toronto+Vancouver+real+estate+markets/7504713/story.html#ixzz2CL9cqRb5

#16 ChickenLittle on 11.15.12 at 10:04 pm

Thwy call him flipper, flipper, faster than lightning…no one you see, is smarter than he…
Personally, I do not think it is sexy to live in a shoebox, no matter what some land pimp tells me. Does he live in a condo? If not, why?

#17 ChickenLittle on 11.15.12 at 10:05 pm

They*

#18 dosouth on 11.15.12 at 10:06 pm

I just couldn’t pass this one up from your last post Garth.

An Oxymoron…….can you spot it?!?

#178 };-) aka D.A.
“….At best a good REALTOR might show you how to avoid the costly mistakes …”

#19 kreditanstalt on 11.15.12 at 10:10 pm

Well, they DO richly deserve what’s coming. But it won’t help the rest of us.

We need all-round unimpeded price discovery. We need to know who has a real “job” and who doesn’t. Who has savings and who has only credit.

We need to know the market price for housing – everywhere. We need to know the true price of borrowed – and unencumbered – money. We need market-set interest rates instead of the faux “money” that bids up prices for everyone.

We need rewards for correct risk-taking and losses for all the others, be they unemployed autoworkers or a bank. Let’s see which businesses can stand on their own two feet without continuous borrowing.

The speckers and flippers are only the tip of the iceberg. It’s just getting started.

Cue the job losses…

#20 House Horny Housewife on 11.15.12 at 10:13 pm

Can’t make a ton of money if you are not prepared to take on a ton of risk. Nothing in this world is free .. if it sounds too good to be true then it is … etc.. all of these clichés come from somewhere so why don’t these folks get real and own up to reality ?

Never ceases to amaze me when sellers are trying to get top dollar for a property and they use the “top of the line appliances” thing … really ?! Is $10,000.00 worth of appliances worth a $100,000.00 increase in price … honestly ?! I heard this far too often when looking for my current property and felt like throwing up each and every time I heard this (had to garner every ounce of self control under my power not to do so). It was B.S. then and is still B.S. now.

When someone tries to get you to pay top dollar for state of the art appliances or the granite countertops or even the heated bathroom floors, run the other way, fast ! It means they have nothing else of value to sell. These are things you can purchase ANYTIME, ANYHOW !

What should make you pay top dollar for a property are things unique to that property that cannot be found anywhere else: a spectacular view, an wonderful location, incredible privacy, a grandfather clause that allows you to have a gorgeous boathouse on the beach, oil underneath the land, a little leprechaun that lives on your front lawn … or whatever. Definitely, NOT an island with granite countertops and an ice machine in the middle of the kitchen, central vacuum or a Miele dishwasher … cause guess what ? you can buy that no matter where you are … duh !!

I really have a BIG problem with this issue of people being impressed by bells & whistles and cheap tricks. Hot tubs are petri dishes and anything fancy and electronic will inevitably require maintenance.

HHHW

#21 mithan on 11.15.12 at 10:15 pm

#4 Johnny D:
And it is good here and will remain that way for a while yet.

My expectations are that we will see our crash come to fruition in 2014 or 2015 and then see prices tumble at that point a good 20-30% or more if something bad happens in Canada. The building here is not sustainable and most of the current employment that is driving the rents higher and such is based on construction, which has been in a boom phase now since 2006-2007.

It wont last forever and as we know from history, the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust. The next recession wont be a little thing that gets papered over in 6 months. It will be a self fulfilling prophecy of many years of debt restructuring and rebuilding balance sheets.

Take a look at the new harbor landing developments. I know several twenty somethings that have signed their lives away into mortgages there for $180-200k or so and most of them are based on cyclical industries that just happen to being doing good now, but wont when construction slows down. Plus they all pay $500 a month for car payments.

I think a lot of people are going to get hurt in the end.

#22 TurnerNation on 11.15.12 at 10:15 pm

#6Smoking Man

Oh, I was at the Duke…of Wellington…for a few hours tonight. The other duke. It was dead near the end. Picked up some index calls at the close as all my downside targets hit. Plan the trade, trade the plan.

#23 darcy on 11.15.12 at 10:27 pm

Garth, here is for you and your readers to “learn more”.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greggfisher/2012/01/23/chasing-the-mirage-of-hedge-fund-returns/

It is not easy for the average investor to earn 7% per year compounded. You have to be honest with your readers.

Of course not. The average investor is creamed. The smart ones get help. — Garth

So where is this help for the “average” investor? I don’t think the average investor can afford you. Reading helps; however, i’m less and less convinced that the average person has a hope at achieving these returns unless you are just referring to holding an index etf and averaging the past 50 yrs of returns on the market.

going forward someone with 10 – 20 yrs left in their working career may be able to but they also may not be able to. Better get saving!!!

#24 Djb on 11.15.12 at 10:28 pm

I wonder what award he won from the investment community?

#25 NFN_NLN on 11.15.12 at 10:30 pm

#16 ChickenLittle on 11.15.12 at 10:04 pm

They call him flipper, flipper, faster than lightning…no one you see, is smarter than he…

Hahha, someone should re-edit a video of condo flippers to this soundtrack. It could be epic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEOeTX1LqM

#26 Tron on 11.15.12 at 10:30 pm

#20 House Horny Housewife

So true. I think why this is still happening is because real estate agents have not had to ‘sell’ homes for the last few years. As long as prices are going up your best sales pitch is just that; get in before it’s too late.

As the markets correct we will see much better marketing of properties as the good realters survive and the rest find other work.

#27 Kurt on 11.15.12 at 10:34 pm

My god, that photo – no helmet, no gloves, no leathers, no brain. It’s an apt metaphor for the column’s subject and the current market situation.

#28 Pr on 11.15.12 at 10:35 pm

I dont think will will find a job at REMAX talking like that!

#29 Smoking Man on 11.15.12 at 10:36 pm

#22 TurnerNation on 11.15.12 at 10:15 pm

You know I play the player. CanDeal

I so rock, it sick

#30 Old Man on 11.15.12 at 10:37 pm

#22 TurnerNation – the Duke of Wellington on Prince Arthur is where all the babes with class hangout, so the Smoking Man was not there.

#31 Devore on 11.15.12 at 10:42 pm

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Realtors+break+drinks+limo+crawling+real+estate+market/7556108/story.html

Realtors break out drinks, limo in crawling real estate market

Well, it’s no yellow helicopter, and it’s gonna cut into profits big time, but it’s better than picking up a part time gig at Walmart.

#32 };-) aka D.A. on 11.15.12 at 10:43 pm

uh…. er… um… Forget it. I give up.

#33 Gladiator on 11.15.12 at 10:43 pm

Garth, I second your numbers of 80-90%. As I wrote here before, my friend who has a real estate asset management firm told me that developers who he knows estimate that about 80-90% of condos are bought by speculators.
It’s going to be a nasty crash, realtors and speckers, a nasty crash.

#34 Old Man on 11.15.12 at 10:43 pm

I mean’t the Duke of York, so once again am giving out secrets.

#35 Interesting Times on 11.15.12 at 10:43 pm

HGTV Virgins get out there and start low balling these realtards by 50 percent. Don’t waste your time going to open houses when you could just sit on MLS and low ball these used car salespeople by email. Get out there and get your revenge. Show them that you are not as stupid as the show protrays you!

– Europe already in recession / depression, Japan and US right behind them. This will have a negative feed back loop across the global economy.

– jobs being lost everywhere still and the Canadian economy is slowing down.

– austerity starting already in Canada. Many in government jobs will be bye, bye.

– manufacturing jobs have moved to Asia and back to the US.

– 70 percent of CDN living pay cheque to pay cheque and have no savings and over 50% have no pensions

– 60% of boomers 60 years and older entering retirement in debt

– empty condos being built everywhere and will be going for 50 percent off soon.

– empty homes all over the MLS, can you say power of sales have started

– for lease signs everywhere in business districts and commercial areas, I guess business has moved away from Canada

– Canadians are 163 percent in debt! More than the US, Ireland, and UK when they had there crash.

– Over 6 months of dropping RE sales. Next thing to drop will be prices by 50%.

– And remember a home is only worth what a buyer will pay.

– the realtards, brokers, banks and builders are in full out panic

The 50 percent crash is here my virgins. Get out there and start low balling as the time is now for your revenge. Don’t sign up for bank slavery like the other 70 percent of the virgins in Canada. They are screwed for life now as they were sold the Koolaid by the RE industry!

#36 condo fever on 11.15.12 at 10:45 pm

This is slightly off topic of real estate but worth a look:

Protect Internet Freedom!

http://www.protectinternetfreedom.net/

#37 Devore on 11.15.12 at 10:49 pm

#18 dosouth

Now, there’s no need for that. DA is already fuming not a single person took him up on his childish play for attention in yesterday’s post. Maybe he doesn’t have it all figured out after all.

#38 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 11.15.12 at 10:52 pm

#11 Dr. WAYNE on 11.15.12 at 9:49 pm

#7 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 11.15.12 at 9:43 pm

Beat Dr Wanker again….

DELETED
=====================================

Now now….

You have a Hippo-craptic oath(and a boiler room Realtor license) to uphold….

Selling time shares during physicals?…Only Smoking Man has such credentials.

#39 Sockeyemoon on 11.15.12 at 10:53 pm

These were 500k not too long ago. Now they’re 1/3 of that! Wow, the Olympic effect is huge!
http://www.steveburk.ca/Properties.php/Details/357#viewdetail

#40 Seriously? on 11.15.12 at 10:58 pm

If you plan on making love to a 600 pound motorcycle,

a helmet and a jock strap are necessary.

If you plan on jumping into bed with sharks,

well a helmet and a jockstrap won’t save you, no how.

seriously.

#41 AK on 11.15.12 at 11:05 pm

I forgot where I read it, but I was under the impression that one had to take possession of a property before selling it to somebody else?

I thought this law went into effect in the late 80’s?

#42 Roy on 11.15.12 at 11:14 pm

“Urgent” sales… the sound of kool aid drinkers choke, choke, choking on their own greed.

#43 };-) aka D.A. on 11.15.12 at 11:14 pm

#39 Devore on 11.15.12 at 10:49 pm

While I feel the urge to retort, I am confident, in due time, I will be vindicated. And you know what they say about he who laughs last…

Now I’ve got to get back to work and as I leave I wish you the best of luck that clearly so many of you are counting on.

#44 Bottoms_Up on 11.15.12 at 11:15 pm

Seriously BELL??? BELL-oney bill set to increase close to 10%.

TV
Important – Please note that effective January 1, 2013, the monthly price of your TV service will increase by $3.28. At any time, if you have questions or wish to add, modify, extend or cancel services, please call us at 310-BELL (2355).
Internet
+++ Please note that effective January 1, 2013, the monthly price of your Internet service will increase by $3. At any time, if you have questions or wish to modify, extend, cancel or add services, please call us at 310-BELL (2355).
Home phone
Important – Please note that effective January 1, 2013, the monthly price of your Home phone package will increase by $2.03. At any time, if you have questions or wish to add, modify, extend or cancel services, please call us at 310-BELL (2355).
Important – Please note that effective January 1, 2013 the monthly price of Canada and US 500/1000 minute Block of Time and Digital Bundle Long Distance plans will increase by $2 each, and the price of Anytime Block of Time will increase by $3. At any time, if you have questions or wish to add, modify, extend or cancel services, please call us at 310-BELL (2355).

#45 Jimster on 11.15.12 at 11:19 pm

Is this what Garth’s been talkin bout;

Realtors break out drinks, limo in crawling real estate market

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Realtors+break+drinks+limo+crawling+real+estate+market/7556108/story.html#ixzz2CLt3MkLv

#46 Cowtown Refugee on 11.15.12 at 11:28 pm

Laughed my a$$ off at the CREA official Frankenumbers#’s that say Cowtown prices are going UP! UP ! UP!

Driving around Cowtown today I saw a lot of “Price Reduced” headers on the FOR Sale signs.

To the CREA, down obviously means up. They need to be charged by Consumer Corporate Affairs for using that Franken number as a deliberate attempt to deceive consumers.

It is nothing more than an industry supported fraud.

#47 Rainman on 11.15.12 at 11:29 pm

Does Dr. Wanker the proctologist ever have anything intelligent to say?

#48 Boombust on 11.15.12 at 11:39 pm

I wonder how F will try (try?) to weasel out of the nonsense he helped create.

History will smoke and smite him just as Perry Mason always did to Hamilton Burger.

#49 Trev on 11.15.12 at 11:40 pm

Found the ad on kijijij … Even more telling is an “urgent” sale at Trump Tower for $1mil off:

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-real-estate-condos-for-sale-Trump-Tower-Toronto-Assignment-Sale-up-to-a-million-dollars-off-W0QQAdIdZ410532562

MUST SELL FAST!!!

The soon-to-be owner of a fabulous suite in Trump Tower in downtown Toronto urgently needs to sell his 1800 sq ft 2 bedroom corner suite FAST!

Very high floor!

The suite has been valued up to $2.9 million however the soon-to-be owner will sell to you for

UP TO A MILLION DOLLARS LESS

than current values.

#50 Not 1st on 11.15.12 at 11:52 pm

Garth, this idea that there are star financial advisors out there just waiting for clients is fallacy. Any advisor thats getting that kind of return doesn’t need clients, he just trades his own portfolio until he is rich and out of the game or he works with whales who aren’t your average investor. Everybody else is living off clients commissions cause they can’t get the 7% returns consistently or at all. You need to be more forthright with people when you tell them to get help.

Ethical advisors do not trade in their own accounts. Good advisors relish helping people. Your cynicism is your anchor. — Garth

#51 Form Man on 11.16.12 at 12:00 am

#45 DA

I believe you said next April the market will be booming, and you will be gloating………

I am waiting with great anticipation

#52 squidly77 on 11.16.12 at 12:01 am

Remember this, every single property listed on the MLS is a property that no realtor wants. They get first dibs before the listing is released to the general public.

Now ask yourself this, why would you by a house that the self titled ‘housing experts’ want no part of it ?
————
To the shill posting that Calgarys real estate market is red hot. Its not, prices are absolutely collapsing in the suburbs. Whats worse, if you bought a Calgary condo hoping to flip it for a profit, you’ve been conned-dope.

#53 DC on 11.16.12 at 12:02 am

#20 House Horny Housewife

The thing that gets me is the few times I watched some of those lower end home renovation shows on HGTV. People would invest maybe 3-4K on paint, flooring, lighting, some cabinets, other typical stuff; and the idiot host would say that they just increased their property’s value by 40-50K.

#54 homeinboca on 11.16.12 at 12:08 am

Garth, you recommended Poseidon Concepts some time ago as a great company with a high dividend yield.

Good call, I hope you didn’t listen to your own advice.

I did not make that recommendation. — Garth

#55 Vangrrl on 11.16.12 at 12:09 am

Speaking of ads, I was standing waiting for the Canada Line skytrain today and when it pulled into the station I realized it had become one giant ad for MC2 (Marine and Cambie condo project that I think is a few years away from being built?) Big red splotches all over it with MC2 screaming at you. I think that’s the first time the actual TRAIN has become an ad board.
Smells like desperation…

#56 Nemesis on 11.16.12 at 12:09 am

“Close your eyes. This is America, circa 2006.” – Hon. GT

Worse, actually.

#57 squidly77 on 11.16.12 at 12:14 am

People say that specuvestors have gotten creamed in the rec-property areas. Its true, they have.

But none have been creamed to such a degree as the money for nothing specs that bought into Canmore hotel units and condos.

They even kill bunnies their.
————-
Its funny or is it sad that people want to live in the wild but are so scared of the wild that they wont let nature do what nature intended to do.

Back to the Bunnies, Canmorites are so scared of coyotes that they want to send their little furry enemies to the gas chambers. http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Canmore+plans+cull+remaining+feral+rabbits/7556116/story.html

Canmore, a town I haven’t stopped in, in over 25 years. The last time I stopped their I needed an extra long shower as I felt like I had just been slimed.

#58 Roial1 on 11.16.12 at 12:27 am

#3Keith in Calgary on 11.15.12 at 9:36 pm

The CRA should create a huge task force and rip the industry apart.

What? and have them tax Harpo’s campaign contributors? NEVER HAPPEN.

#59 Humpty Dumpty on 11.16.12 at 12:32 am

And Europe is about to go FLOP………

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2012/11/15_MEP_Nigel_Farage.html

What we are looking at is something, I’m afraid, that is very, very akin to the Weimar Republic and that breakdown which happened in Germany in the early 1930s that led to Hitler.

Imagine that eh G….

#60 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 12:36 am

#52Form Man on 11.16.12 at 12:00 am
#45 DA

I believe you said next April the market will be booming, and you will be gloating………

I am waiting with great anticipation

I think you should reference that with a proof source Form Man, as I am quite positive I did not say that. I may have said something more like: “It would not surprise me to see a notable, albeit minor, uptic this spring based on the moderate increase in volumes of late. Price always follows volume up and or down.” or “Business this spring, I am confident, will be better than you are suggesting.” But never would I have said business will be booming this spring because “booming” to the Blog Dawgs means a return to those heady days of 2007/08 and those were unhealthy and unsustainable times which I for one have no interest what-so-ever in seeing the return of.

#61 new canadian on 11.16.12 at 12:40 am

Mr. Kiriakos sounds like a Greek name. We know we are heading to Greece!

I already memorized his easy-to-understand checklist. I shall improve myself on item 4 : Try to use OPM (Other People’s Money)

#62 Mr Buyer on 11.16.12 at 12:43 am

Close your eyes. This is America, circa 2006.
…………………………………………………………………
You can not be any clearer than that. Bravo, well done.

#63 questionforgarth on 11.16.12 at 12:46 am

Dear Mr. former minister of national revenue.

Does CRA have the authority to dig and force developers to give up details and names on assignments? Or is this part of the ‘ol voluntary taxation regime that everybody games…

They have the power and the tools. — Garth

#64 prairieperson on 11.16.12 at 12:52 am

Did my walk about. The house that has been for sale for over three months now has a large sign on top of the for sale sign. New Price. I doubt it the price has gone up. Things are tough in Victoria, I guess. It used to be you sometimes sold a housebefore thesign went up.

#65 LJ on 11.16.12 at 12:54 am

Question: How do you ‘stage’ a pre-construction condo to sell the assignment?

Do you put a couch in the gaping hole intended to signify a future condo? Oh wait, they haven’t even begun digging the hole yet…..

#66 The end is nigh on 11.16.12 at 1:02 am

I’ve got no clue why the Powers to be can’t rule in and tax foreign investors.
Charge em 1 million for every passport.

#67 Roial1 on 11.16.12 at 1:11 am

#58squidly77 on 11.16.12 at 12:14 am

Its funny or is it sad that people want to live in the wild but are so scared of the wild that they wont let nature do what nature intended to do.

Bunnies, Canmorites are so scared of coyotes that they want to send their little furry enemies to the gas chambers

Hell, if they are like that, it’s a good thing that they do not live here.
I had to call my dogs in last night as they had a big black bear up one of my trees in the back yard 11 o’clock. He ran off just as fast as he could as soon as they came in.
Wouldn’t have done him any good raiding here as my apple trees where picked clean, juiced and frozen.
Other than that little bru-ha-ha all is quiet out here in lotus land.

Oh ya, realestate sales are S—L—O—W.

#68 Riding the Pine on 11.16.12 at 1:17 am

#14 Joe – I agree.

Although not hard evidence;
When a fresh Chinese immigrant sends her 10 year old daughter upstairs to retrieve 50K in cash to secure a contract with a neighborhood home builder, that’s proof enough for me.

There must be 10s of millions going into building, specking, renos and god knows what else. The amount of money leaving China illegally is well known, and a significant number of those “mules” are coming to Canada.

As China’s own market bloats with empty cities, will that affect our Canadian market?….How would we even know what effect there is if, any?

#69 Tony on 11.16.12 at 1:21 am

There’s a huge loophole with Canadian real estate. Since an investor who never lives in the unit is obliged to pay capital gains tax if there’s a gain they can sell units to anyone in the country if they can find someone who will pay far less than the unit is worth and take the rest in cash (something like selling a car for far less than bluebook value and the balance in cash) or money deferred to another country or whatever the buyer seems fit. This way the seller can declare a loss instead of a capital gain and write it off against other capital gains. If it’s only one unit the buyer buys it to live in so no capital gains tax applies even from a much lower cost base than the unit or house normally would cost. The same thing can be done putting units in numerous names fixing the units up having the quote buyer live in the unit for a short time then flip it and pay the buyer a fee for holding the unit until it’s flipped thus getting around paying any capital gains tax.

#70 not bitter on 11.16.12 at 1:48 am

Why are so many of you so bitter – as well as being completely prejudiced and unabashedly offensive – towards realtors? It’s as if realtors are not trying to make a living, contribute to society and have families. Not all realtors are the same. Most realtors do not push buyers into bad investments. Most realtors do what is best for their client. Perhaps your realtor was otherwise. One thing you can say about ALL realtors is that they are individual people.

#71 Danno on 11.16.12 at 1:50 am

Lets remember that a lot of these poor folks about to be destroyed may be our friends, relatives and/or co-workers. All were made to believe we were safe, different from the rest of the world. The rest of the world was paying for their greedy ways while our government refused to help but, instead, tried to teach them how to run their finances. While we smile happily, feeling smug about our liquidity; there will be stress, tears, ruined lives and possibly worse. How we treat those who may be downtrodden is how our society will be judged. I’ve had to rebuild and am now in a good place but it wasn’t easy nor fun.

#72 NorthOf49 on 11.16.12 at 1:50 am

Garth, just down the road in Hamilton, its an all-out assault to pump real estate in the local MSM rag, The Spectator (owned by Torstar).

“Average Hamilton home price will hit $358,000 this year: Report”
http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/836460–average-hamilton-home-price-will-hit-358-000-this-year-report

“GTA buyers bolster Hamilton housing market”
http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/836716–gta-buyers-bolster-hamilton-housing-market

“LINQ: Catch ya later, Toronto!”
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/837357–linq-catch-ya-later-toronto

A few blog days ago, I thought you were a harsh calling realtors liars, but after reading the above realtor propaganda, you are right on the money. Incredibly they fail to mention the latest monthly sales stats (-9.4% yoy) on the Hamilton-Burlington market typically reported in The Spectator, but not this month:

http://rahb.ca/press/2012/121105pressreleaseOct.pdf

Anecdotally, sales are slow in the nicer parts of the Hammer. Lots of re-sale inventory and new build models available all at top-dollar prices. Agents at open houses I’ve been to over the last few weeks have been urging “go ahead and make your offer, don’t let the listing price scare you”. Quite a few listings have come off the market that I expect to be re-listed in the Spring. Scary times ahead I predict.

#73 lookoutbelow on 11.16.12 at 1:51 am

Every house sale in Vancouver Westside, West Vancouver and Richmond over the past 3 years needs to be audited.

I have raised this specific issue with the current Minister of National Revenue, Gail Shea, and volunteered my time. But alas, she didn’t take me up on it.

Wish I had access to their databases, there is an absolute fortune to be made in Capital Gains tax evasion. All those assignments, owner buiders who conveniently move every year or so, homes registered to kids, multiple homes being their principal residence and on and on and on.

Come on, CRA, wake up and let’s go. I hear that the Minister of Finance, the great F, could use the extra revenue for this fiscal year, he is running about $5-6 Billion short…..

#74 Ralph Cramdown on 11.16.12 at 2:01 am

recommended Poseidon Concepts some time ago as a great company with a high dividend yield.

If YOUR portfolio doesn’t contain a few losers, you’re too conservative, not diversified enough, or both. One of the nice things about stocks (as opposed to owned real estate) is that even a man of modest means can diversify away from position risk.

People ‘of modest means’ who buy stocks are massively increasing their risk. It’s why they stay ‘of modest means.’ — Garth

#75 T.O. Bubble Boy on 11.16.12 at 2:05 am

@ #55 homeinboca on 11.16.12 at 12:08 am
Garth, you recommended Poseidon Concepts some time ago as a great company with a high dividend yield.

Good call, I hope you didn’t listen to your own advice.

I did not make that recommendation. — Garth
____________________

Google: “Poseidon site:greaterfool.ca”

no recommendation of a stock

it would seem odd for Garth to recommend an individual equity vs. ETF (aside from certain REITs and Preferreds)

#76 Soylent Green is People on 11.16.12 at 2:25 am

DELETED

#77 EIT on 11.16.12 at 2:42 am

I don’t even have time to read this post.

#78 of Mtl on 11.16.12 at 3:04 am

CRW….Huckin’ filarious.

Condo flipping: A how-to guide for toddlers.

#79 Buy? Curious? on 11.16.12 at 3:30 am

Bwahahaha, Smoking Man, you’re so funny! Your idiot savant/entrepreneur/Donald Trump inspired posts are hilarious! Check out tonight’s!

“#6 Smoking Man on 11.15.12 at 9:39 pm
To smashed to add good content, @ the duke working on my next million.”

Then an hour later, (Did you sober up or throw a few more loonies at the guy working at the internet cafe along Spadina?) you write this?

“#30 Smoking Man on 11.15.12 at 10:36 pm
#22 TurnerNation on 11.15.12 at 10:15 pm
You know I play the player. CanDeal
I so rock, it sick”

You’re too much. Just like you said how 95% of your encrypted email service is Russian. Ya Right. Gwan. It’s like when my buddy would brag about having a girlfriend in Niagara Falls by making me smell his finger when in fact it was their mom’s moisturiser on their hands. Tell us some more stories about interest rates, shorting stocks and “The Machine”. It reminds me of the times we’d listen to my senile grandad tell us of his days in the war when he defeated the Germans with a tin cup, a pen knife and an hour’s sleep.

How’s the book coming along? Don’t you have to hand it in on Dec 1 (A Saturday?) to your New York City publisher?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN6XLHqdir8&feature=player_embedded#!

#80 Cowpie on 11.16.12 at 3:32 am

#62 new canadian on 11.16.12 at 12:40 am

Tee hee. Of course Mr. Kiriakos’s “make it sexy” financial philosophy is Greek. (That strategy sure has sure worked well for Greece.)

I’m too lazy to Google him, but I have some theories.

1. Mr. Kirakos is the same guy that ran that cruise ship aground. He seemed an expert in trying to look sexy, rather than being an actual ship’s captain.

2. Mr. Kirakos owns a condo staging business…or sells granite, or something stainless…

#81 Cowpie on 11.16.12 at 3:43 am

Agreed that Cowtown is cold! Especially in RE sales – been watching NW of town, some minor activity in October (approx 10% of the inventory I was watching actually sold). However NONE went for asking, actually the closest was 50K less than asking. One went for 50% less than original asking and took 5 yrs to sell. Yikes! Lots of stale property still sitting there. Brrrr… slow like molasses…they are listed at 3K rentals now and aren’t even able to rent them. Ruh roh.

#82 lost soul on 11.16.12 at 3:54 am

wow..spent the last day or so looking at Kits beach on MLS, Vancouver Island, Nanaimo, QB, Parksville etc.
Been out of the country this past few years and obviously cheap financing has goosed the prices to the extreme.
Built a house in Oceanside…in 2001 and all in for 2600 sq ft was $180 grand with landscaping.
It just boggles the mind that in an area with chronic underemployment and few decent paying jobs that the prices have spiked so high.
The curse of Vancouver Island since I was a child was few if any decent jobs.we cant all work for the dam government. Not that I consider that meaningful employment!
When i was younger I can remember a tour of McGavins bakery in Victoria. I recall Labatts brewery, Bapco Paint and several mills including BCFP (British Columbia Forest Products) that employed at least 1000 people( correct me if I am wrong 1980). providing good middle class wages and even friends of mine who worked 3-4 months a year..owned a car and paid their living expenses and university tuition each year(
Now what do we have the same government leaches on productive people, and Subway sandwiches and Star Bucks.
Jesus H. C@$#%&..people wake up this is not sustainable.
Obviously this will not end well for many people….glad I am out of that market and perching on the side of my Vulture Post!

#83 TRT on 11.16.12 at 4:01 am

Vancouver is no San Francisco……..yet.

$1000 dollar per nite hotel in Union Square….San Francisco is very expensive!

#84 Form Man on 11.16.12 at 6:58 am

361 DA

I suggested that housing prices will continue to decline until MOI is below 7.

That is a fact. Not a dream.

#85 X on 11.16.12 at 8:22 am

Is Revenue Canada doing anything in particular to investigate builders who allow for selling of assignments? Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. If someone made $ off of an assignment, great for them, but they should pay taxes on their capital gains, while they enjoy our health care, their childrene enjoy our education system etc…

#86 Sean on 11.16.12 at 8:24 am

Google: “Poseidon site:greaterfool.ca”

Very nice search trick. I did not know that one. Thnx TO Bubble Boy.

#87 Eaglebay - Parksville on 11.16.12 at 8:47 am

#20 House Horny Housewife on 11.15.12 at 10:13 pm

No whining, no BS.
Good post.

#88 Realitybytes on 11.16.12 at 9:09 am

Geez, make up your mind.

I get a kick out of your blog, but you flip flop like Romney on speed.

No US style crash, we’re America 2006, slow melt, look out below, clap on, clap off…

Always said no US-style crash, but a stiff correction followed by a melt of indeterminate length. None of that is mutually exclusive with us having made the same mistakes as Americans. Except we have no excuse. — Garth

#89 TurnerNation on 11.16.12 at 9:25 am

Cdn Watchdog, over on Kijji – the more popular choices – within Toronto alone an ‘Assignment’ search yields 274 results:

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/f-assignment-real-estate-condos-for-sale-City-of-Toronto-W0QQAdTypeZ2QQCatIdZ643QQKeywordZassignmentQQLocationZ1700273QQisSearchFormZtrue

#90 Eaglebay - Parksville on 11.16.12 at 9:27 am

#74 lookoutbelow on 11.16.12 at 1:51 am

CRA could do something about this so called tax evasion.
It would make the tax system look “fair”.
But, they don’t have to, as eventually they’ll get their share anyway.
The money, capital gains, will move around and eventually someone will pay the taxes. It’s only a matter of who pays.

#91 Eaglebay - Parksville on 11.16.12 at 9:32 am

#77 Soylent Green is People on 11.16.12 at 2:25 am

What are you supposed to do when rockets are falling all over your country and your own people are being killed?
You’re not very well informed.
Try that on my house and see what I do to you.
Brainwashed.

#92 Eaglebay - Parksville on 11.16.12 at 9:42 am

#83 lost soul on 11.16.12 at 3:54 am

Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland are full of tree huggers and ignorant environmentalists.
They are backed by the government, wether liberal or NDP, and of course NIMBY.
What do you expect. Our governments are to grow balls.
The majority isn’t always right. Idiots.

#93 Ret on 11.16.12 at 9:43 am

#73 North of 49.

Right on. Houses around McMaster are now selling for under $300,000. One estate sale down the street started at $329,000 dropped to $299,000 and sold for $55,000 less than that. Solid home on a better street but in need of some updating.

Now that Hamilton is blowing about the $1B dollars of building permits, can we expect some property tax relief?

We pay the highest tax rates in the province and next year we pay a 1% city “surtax” to give the poor more benefits.

Don’t tell the CRA about all of the landlords collecting but not declaring student rental incomes in my area either. The slumlord who lives next door to me has a slew of students showing up on the last day of each month handing him cash at his front door. He has 20 “doors” spread over 3 houses. Many of these slumlords own multiple properties.

I give up on any sort of tax fairness from the CRA. They are just another ineffective, useless government make work project.

Ditto for the RCMP. Thousands of underwater salt wrecked cars are starting to show up in Ontario from New York. So much for border security wrt hazardous goods. Lots of “family” autobody shops will rebuild this scrap, re-VIN, and dump these cars onto unsuspecting customers right under the noses of the OPP and RCMP.

#94 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 9:49 am

#85Form Man on 11.16.12 at 6:58 am
361 DA

I suggested that housing prices will continue to decline until MOI is below 7.

That is a fact. Not a dream.

Then can you explain to us Form Man why, while MOI in Kelowna has been above 7 for each of the last 12 months in each of the last four years, prices still have not yet fallen?

#95 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 10:02 am

Form Man:

In Kelowna both unit sales volumes and prices, for all intents and purposes, have practically remained the same in each of the four years following the economic crisis of 2008.

http://tinypic.com/r/nwdkb6/6

#96 detalumis on 11.16.12 at 10:10 am

#93 you live in a city that thinks the poor are morally superior and the poverty industry is big business that’s why you do stupid things like instead of fixing the sewer pipes that burst every spring you give free bus passes to seniors. We in Halton region ship all our poor down the road there by having a 50 year social housing list and only building new units for seniors and nobody else. I suggest you move next door to Burlington or Oakville.

#97 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 10:14 am

Form Man:

Here is your MOI for the Central Okanagan for the past 5 years. Transpose that against unit sales volumes and median sales price why don’t you? I’m sure you will deduce by doing so MOI don’t mean shit in this market. There is clearly more going on behind the scenes which I have tried to explain to you. Do you get it now?

http://i49.tinypic.com/fonlsi.png

#98 Form Man on 11.16.12 at 10:17 am

#94 DA

And prices have fallen steadily for the last 4 years in the Okanagan. Any other suggestion is a lie.

#99 Jim on 11.16.12 at 10:21 am

#71 not bitter ,

Many of us dislike realtors because of their pretension. They try to appear like professionals, even though the job demands no hard skills. Their professional assocation is tardy to discipline misconduct (much like the law society). There are a few good ones that merely see themselves as facilitators of transactions or trusted resources for clients.

#100 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 10:25 am

Form Man;

Any reasonable projection based on those graphs I provided would be that prices will remain stable, as they have, until inventory increases yet further, which both you and I know it will not, or inventory levels fall in which case prices will most certainly rise.

Your notion that prices will continue to fall until MOI falls to 7 or less has clearly been disproven and this new market is one in which the commonly held convention that over 7 MOI becomes increasingly a buyer’s market and under increasingly a seller’s market is flawed and no longer applies. Why? Because there are other extenuating circumstances going on behind the scenes in this market that you are unaware of which I have tried to explain to you but you refuse to listen. Need I repeat them?

#101 Jim on 11.16.12 at 10:26 am

#83 lost soul ,

Indeed, Vancouver Island has some serious trouble coming. I haven’t been back in 3 years, but last time I did the Island Highway, I noticed serious downturns in tourism and fishing. Lodges that used to be bustling were empty.

Victoria itself has health care, government, UVic and tourism. Almost all of which are sustained by… gasp… government taxation. Tourism industry jobs don’t tend to pay well, the cruise ship terminal is probably a net minus, and there’s not much to be found for professionals outside of the notoriously corrupt and incompetent BC civil service. Victoria seems to live off of old money and old people, which (in your words) is not sustainable.

They tried to stimulate a ‘high tech’ industry, but it isn’t exactly a tech hub. Construction was likely a decent portion of the economy, building condos, renovating the waterfront, putting up new subdivisions in the western suburbs, etc.

#102 AACI Okanagan on 11.16.12 at 10:32 am

#94 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 9:49 am

Then can you explain to us Form Man why, while MOI in Kelowna has been above 7 for each of the last 12 months in each of the last four years, prices still have not yet fallen?
——————————————————————-
I have a data base that you cannot dispute that shows prices down from 5% to 15% (depending on the neighbourhood) over the past 2 years alone. These are home sales that sold 1-3 years ago and have resold this year with no changes to the improvements. It is what is.

#103 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 10:33 am

Again

Historical Unit Sales Volumes and Historical Prices for the Central Okanagan;

http://i45.tinypic.com/nwdkb6.jpg

Historical Months of Inventory ( last 5 years )

http://i49.tinypic.com/fonlsi.png

As you can see both Prices and Volumes have remained stable the last four years despite Months of Inventory levels being well in excess of 7. Why? That I explained a few days back.

#104 Pr on 11.16.12 at 10:42 am

Sale CANADA buy AMERICA, not so fast:

http://www.infowars.com/why-the-states-must-secede-to-save-america/

A column about comments made by a radio talk show host. Are you serious? He’s probably more irrelevant than I am. — Garth

#105 Cory on 11.16.12 at 10:43 am

#20 HHHW

I have to agree with your post. That’s why we purchased our current house. 2 acres of wonderful privacy with trees and a meandering stream all within 6 minutes of town. The house was updated but not over the top. I didn’t want to be paying for someone elses renovations.

As well all those things – stainless steel appliances, granite counter tops, hardwood floors all show their age and get dinged, crack and look out of date in under ten years. So to pay top dollar for a house based on those things is called a “fool parting with his money”. Yet people seem to do it every day – especially the young.

#106 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 10:53 am

Here is a graph showing the historic count of active listings. What does it tell you Form Man? To me, clearly, it supports what I was saying in previous posts: The last four years inventory levels have been ladden with unmotivated sellers and as such the inventory levels fluctuate wildly and mean little to nothing as a statistical reference.

http://i48.tinypic.com/9tznkp.png

#107 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 10:53 am

Do you get it now?

#108 Have to Speak Up on 11.16.12 at 11:15 am

Soylent Green, I find your comments about Gaza offensive and inappropriate for this blog. Please stay on topic and keep these thoughts to yourself.

#109 MM on 11.16.12 at 11:20 am

@Danno #72:

“While we smile happily, feeling smug about our liquidity; there will be stress, tears, ruined lives and possibly worse. How we treat those who may be downtrodden is how our society will be judged.”

The people who are overleveraged on cheap credit for overpriced homes are **NOT** the “downtrodden”. These are by and large MIDDLE CLASS fools who are totally out of touch with reality and look down on those people who are genuinely poor. These homeowners deserve every bit of financial pain that is coming their way and I don’t feel sorry for them for one moment. The people I know who make minimum wage and welfare have not been buying homes with cheap credit. Poor renters have been displaced by renoviction and high rents due to the housing boom. Developers haven’t been building rental housing because they make more money from condos. Rental buildings have been converted to condos. The people who were poor before the housing boom are still poor. These poor people have not been buying houses. The truly downtrodden are renters and they have been kicked around and displaced as the housing market has been turned upside down during this bubble.

The people who have overextended themselves buying overpriced homes and now face being underwater on their mortgages are middle class people who should have known better. These people should realize that house prices can’t go up forever and can’t overshoot fundamentals like incomes, rents, and demographics. Middle class homeowners haven’t lost any sleep over the plight of poor minimum wage renters, the downtrodden, who are constantly being renovicted due to the real estate boom. The fake paper equity of the middle class that made them feel so rich during the boom (the wealth effect) has come at the expense of the truly downtrodden who can’t afford rents, get renovicted, and can’t jobs as all the industrial land that used to be used for jobs is now used for condos. Our whole economy has become distorted by this real estate bubble. Land and investment that should have gone toward productive employment (that could have helped the poor get jobs that make more than min. wage) has gone to speculative real estate development. Now you want me sitting here on minimum wage, displaced far from my home city, to feel sorry for the “downtrodden” fools who are about to get burned in the real estate crash!!! Give me a break. I take great joy watching overextended homeowners get financially destroyed in the housing crash. They’re getting exactly what they deserved and exactly what they created for themselves. It’s justice. Finally someone other than the minimum wage renter gets to feel some pain.

I agree with you that society should be judged by how it treats the downtrodden. I just don’t think overleveraged middle class homeowners qualify as being part of the “downtrodden”. And it’s these same middle class homeowners who looked down their noses and judged negatively the poor renters that their expensive homes were displacing.

#110 JD on 11.16.12 at 11:20 am

A sure sign thigns are going sideways:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/Metro+Vancouver+realtors+creative+kickstart+real/7556108/story.html

#111 Form Man on 11.16.12 at 11:36 am

DA

you are spouting complete nonsense.

#112 Spiltbongwater on 11.16.12 at 11:48 am

He’s probably more irrelevant than I am. — Garth

Didn’t click the link so no idea who you are talking about, but if the the person you are talking about is Rush Limbaugh then I agree. Anyone else, probably not.

#113 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 11:49 am

#98Form Man on 11.16.12 at 10:17 am
#94 DA

And prices have fallen steadily for the last 4 years in the Okanagan. Any other suggestion is a lie.

#102AACI Okanagan on 11.16.12 at 10:32 am
#94 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 9:49 am
I have a data base that you cannot dispute that shows prices down from 5% to 15% (depending on the neighbourhood) over the past 2 years alone. These are home sales that sold 1-3 years ago and have resold this year with no changes to the improvements. It is what is.

And I can show you homes which have resold for the same or more than that which they sold for in the past four years.

The fact is, on average, the market has not dropped as you suggest it has. Sure some areas have experienced priced declines. Mostly those areas are the ones on the outskirts which were a product of the high demand and low inventory leading up to the bubble. Those were homes built to satisfy an unwarranted demand that could not be sustained. Ice cream does melt from the outside in. But so too are their neighbourhoods which have enjoyed a consistently growing demand in the face of a static inventory.

You boys go ahead and think what you want to think and convince anyone else who might choose to side with you. It’s your dime. I’ve done what I can to point out what the dynamics of the market are to you and anyone who might have such an open mind as to at least consider them. Really I wasn’t trying to convince Form Man as to let those other readers know about the flaws in his argument and the realities of the situation.

Anyway, I think I’ve said enough. It really doesn’t matter to me what the two of you think. What bothers me is when others are given misinformation.

#114 futurologist on 11.16.12 at 11:53 am

#77 Soylent Green is People on 11.16.12 at 2:25 am

garth, why you’re allowing to this gebels/nazi propaganda on your real estate blog?

hopefully, the rockets with explosive will soon be fired on the home of “Soylent Green is People”

He/She deserved it.

There will be no further posts on this topic. — Garth

#115 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 11:55 am

#112Form Man on 11.16.12 at 11:36 am
DA

you are spouting complete nonsense.

Yes Form Man. And the world is flat.

#116 Canadian Watchdog on 11.16.12 at 12:01 pm

#103 };-) aka D.A.

What’s Kelowna’s free lunch to sales ratio?

#117 Hoof-Hearted on 11.16.12 at 12:11 pm

#74 lookoutbelow on 11.16.12 at 1:51 am

I agree….

I’ve personally experienced things like vacant homes, just before demolition, with stacks of mail inside with Asian names. No one lived there except the last owner/tenant. Seems like the old trick of claiming primary residency using paper trails(phone and utility bills).

Why doesn’t Gov’t do anything…?
Same as usual..they let it get out of hand and to many people are dependent on it. More sign this economy is based on money laundering?

If they had cracked down right away…who knows?

#118 Form Man on 11.16.12 at 12:13 pm

DA

if it is all sunshine and ponies as you suggest, then why are you so afraid of Garth and his warnings ?

I repeat :

prices will continue to fall until MOI is below 7. Always has been, always will be.

#119 PERPLEXED on 11.16.12 at 12:15 pm

GARTH, IT’S NOT AS BAD AS YOU SAY IT IS.

SEARCHED THE WORD “URGENT” UNDER GTA KIJIJI REAL ESTATE.

7 HITS SINCE SEPTEMBER 19.

TRANSLATION – 7 LISTINGS WHICH HAVE USED THE WORD URGENT IN ALL THE GTA LISTINGS IN LAST 8 WEEKS. – LESS THAN 1 PER WEEK IS HARDLY AN ISSUE.

STARTING TO WONDER ABOUT YOU.

You’re only starting? — Garth

#120 FTP - First Time Poster on 11.16.12 at 12:18 pm

He’s probably more irrelevant than I am. — Garth

Hey if our beloved former premier can get an Order of Canada medal for throwing change at people in a homeless shelter and tell them to get a f*ckin job all while drunk surely you can too Garth!

#121 Smoking Man on 11.16.12 at 12:20 pm

#80 buy courious
Ah so you are my biggest fan.
Forward me your address and I will send you an autographed empty.

#122 in the doghouse on 11.16.12 at 12:22 pm

JD #111
These two Jokers got to be kidding !!!!… they want us to pay $20 to listen to some Realturd spew out some more garbage about how RE is the best investment going…looking at those two , I’d do a 180 and head for the hills. LOL

#123 Daisy Mae on 11.16.12 at 12:24 pm

#20 HHH: “When someone tries to get you to pay top dollar for state of the art appliances or the granite countertops or even the heated bathroom floors, run the other way, fast!”

*******************

Yes. State of the art appliances and granite countertops may add appeal — but a stove is still just a stove.

#124 DM in C on 11.16.12 at 12:26 pm

Form Man and DA need to get a room already. This back and forth flirting is getting tedious. Just make out already, willya.

#125 Hoof-Hearted on 11.16.12 at 12:31 pm

#60 Humpty Dumpty on 11.16.12 at 12:32 am

Weimar’d Europe?

Agree…

Actually, been listening re History of French Revolution…France may have been the 1st European Country Weimar’d.

Old “Hegelian Dialectic”…Banksters create the Problem….then Chaos…then solution offered by the perpetrators and their partners which is usually a Police State.

#126 Toronto Condo Bidding War on 11.16.12 at 1:06 pm

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/431532/toronto-rental-condos-new-bidding-war-battleground/

What’s your opinion about this article?

#127 Babblemaster on 11.16.12 at 1:11 pm

13 Devore

“The only damage flippers are doing is to themselves (no CMHC insurance on pre-sales) and to the housing stock, which is now weighing heavily towards 400sqft cubbyholes in the sky.”

————-

How simplistic is your statement? Very much so. In fact, they are causing massive financial damage which will, one way or another, have to be paid for by the rest of society. Think about all the bailouts that have been handed out in the states. President Obama said it was for the good of everyone.

#128 Cowpie on 11.16.12 at 1:39 pm

#92 Eaglebay – Parksville on 11.16.12 at 9:42 am

So Garth. If you’re considering renaming this site – how about:

“The majority isn’t always right. Idiots.”

I think it has a nice ring.

#129 Dr. WAYNE on 11.16.12 at 1:45 pm

#49 Rainman on 11.15.12 at 11:29 pm

Does Dr. Wanker the proctologist ever have anything intelligent to say?

Yes …

#130 Dr. WAYNE on 11.16.12 at 1:50 pm

Interesting to note that in the Vancouver Sun today a story about realtors undertaking ‘pub crawls’ and ‘house crawls’ with prospective clients (at $20.00 a head) to show them a really good time in Vancouver to ‘entice’ them to buy. However, no mention of the ridiculous prices that ‘may’ be causing such a slow down in sales.

#131 John Prine on 11.16.12 at 1:59 pm

#116 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 11:55 am
#112Form Man on 11.16.12 at 11:36 am
DA

you are spouting complete nonsense.

Yes Form Man. And the world is flat.
—————————————————————–
You two need to either exchange e-mail addresses or get together for lunch….Taking up a lot of valuable space here.

#132 Cowpie on 11.16.12 at 2:01 pm

#99 Jim on 11.16.12 at 10:21 am
#71 not bitter ,

Many of us dislike realtors because of their pretension. They try to appear like professionals, even though the job demands no hard skills. Their professional assocation is tardy to discipline misconduct (much like the law society). There are a few good ones that merely see themselves as facilitators of transactions or trusted resources for clients.
—————————————————————-

You forgot to add that realtors will spin ANYTHING. Their their game is played purely on appearances, greed, fear. They would be great at poker, they can read others while not giving away a thing.

Too many are fake, have their Bimmer best interests ahead of yours. Watch HGTV Million Dollar Listing (http://www.bravotv.com/million-dollar-listing/season-2) Gen Y make perfect realtors – con men.

But why should realtors care: not enough ” discipline misconduct” !

#133 Daisy Mae on 11.16.12 at 2:12 pm

“Close your eyes. This is America, circa 2006.”

***********************

The Canadain government didn’t learn a thing….

#134 Dividend Yield Investor on 11.16.12 at 2:28 pm

110 MM on 11.16.12 at 11:20 am
Poor renters have been displaced by renoviction and high rents due to the housing boom. Developers haven’t been building rental housing because they make more money from condos. Rental buildings have been converted to condos. The people who were poor before the housing boom are still poor. These poor people have not been buying houses. The truly downtrodden are renters and they have been kicked around and displaced as the housing market has been turned upside down during this bubble.

Dividend Man comments:

Bingo! You hit the nail on its head!

When Central Banks create cheap money and the government in Ottawa pushes fiscal spending and laws favoring housing you end up with mal-investment.

In this case the poor suffer the most by being “jacked around” in their need for affordable housing. The last thing that is needed is a government program for low income housing.

Get governments out of housing and allow interest rates to be set by the market place. The market place will create private low cost housing for the poor. And on balance of higher quality.

I agree with your rant.

Government you have to have them….But keep them small and under control at all times.

Dividend Man
Atlanta GA

#135 Doomandgloomer on 11.16.12 at 2:51 pm

A note from Harry S. Dent Jr. from “Survive &Prosper”
Everything Garth has said and more.

The Death Knell Tolls for
Canadian and Australian Real Estate

By Harry S. Dent Jr., Editor, Survive & Prosper
In the last year I have done two tours in Australia, I’ve spoken in Vancouver twice and just recently I was in Toronto to speak at the Money Show there.
What struck me is that Canadians and Australians have three things in common:
1) Neither country had a housing crash or banking crisis in late 2008…
2) Both countries have small populations with abundant natural resources, making them strong commodity exporters, and…
3) Neither thinks their housing markets will go down.
Ha! If I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say their housing won’t go down…
Just guess which cities in the developed world have the most overvalued real estate markets right now?
London. Vancouver. Melbourne. Sydney.
London’s average home price is now at 12-times average income. Vancouver, Melbourne and Sydney are over 10 times. Toronto is also very high at eight-times income.
Guess where prices were in San Francisco and Los Angeles when the real estate bubble burst in the U.S.?
Ten-times average income!
And Canadians and Australians don’t think their home prices will go down?! It’s mind boggling.
Never mind the other sign the bubble’s about to burst…
Guess which major city has the highest rate of new condo construction…?
Toronto.
On the taxi ride into Toronto, in horrific traffic mind you, the things I couldn’t miss were the endless cranes, with steel and glass condos going up everywhere. All along the lake. All over downtown.
Toronto is a beautiful city, as is Vancouver. But such rapid condo development is always a sign of a bubble market in real estate.
Yet Canadians and Australians alike seem determined NOT to see the cliff they’re barreling towards. So my message today is for them and it’s simple:
Wake Up!
Bubbles create the seeds of their own destruction.
When the young families, between the ages of 27 and 42, can no longer afford to buy their homes because prices are too high, you’ve got a problem…
There’s No Arguing Against the Inevitable
Naturally, Canadians and Australians argue that the situation is different in their countries. “We’re not like the U.S.,” is one argument. “Our banks didn’t go as nuts as U.S. banks did.”
That’s true.
But – and it’s a big “but” – home prices in these two countries, especially with the continued rally since 2009, have gone as high or higher in valuations than home prices in the U.S. did.
When does real estate go down?
When young families simply cannot afford it!
The New York Times had a great article months ago that showed pictures of $1 million homes in Vancouver. They were crappy little shoe boxes… homes that would be $150,000 to $200,000, at most, in a normal market.
Can you look me in the eye and tell me average households with a $50,000 annual income can afford to buy and live in million-dollar shoeboxes?
What B.S. As is their second argument that real estate prices won’t go down because their economies are stronger. “We have strong immigration trends and we’re strong resource exporters,” they say.
My answer to that:
Immigration drops like a rock in a global downturn, as it has already started to do in the U.S.
And commodity prices peaked in mid-2008. They’ve headed down again since early 2011.
China, with its own real estate and overbuilding bubble, is the biggest factor driving commodity prices… but it’s heading straight for a hard landing and commodity exporters will feel the pain when the China bubble busts.
The reality is the 29-30-year commodity cycle has peaked and it will hit Canada and Australia worse in the next global downturn between 2013 and 2014.
So, Canada and Australia, listen up: your economies are in no better position than any other in the world today. You’re as susceptible and vulnerable to the global downturn ahead as the U.S. and Europe.
Don’t Look This Gift Horse in the Mouth
My point is this: if you own any investment and commercial real estate in Canada or Australia, sell it now. Don’t wait for the inevitable crash that will ultimately happen in all major cities that have bubbled.
And remember these two simple rules: bubbles always burst and they tend to go back to where the bubble began (maybe even lower).
The global real estate bubble generally started in 2000. Use that as your reference point. Look up what your real estate was worth in January of 2000. That’s likely where it will fall back to in the coming months and years.
Can you stomach such a fall?
I couldn’t. That’s why, when I moved from Miami to Tampa in October 2005 (right at the top of the bubble, by our forecasts) I convinced my wife to let us rent instead of buy. I showed her that home prices could go down 70% in Tampa if they simply fell back to 2000 prices.
So far, they’re down 50% and are likely to fall again if the economy fails in 2013 and 2014, as I am forecasting.
Don’t be a victim here just because you think real estate can’t go down.

#136 live within your means on 11.16.12 at 3:04 pm

#105 Cory on 11.16.12 at 10:43 am
#20 HHHW

I have to agree with your post. That’s why we purchased our current house. 2 acres of wonderful privacy with trees and a meandering stream all within 6 minutes of town. The house was updated but not over the top. I didn’t want to be paying for someone elses renovations.

As well all those things – stainless steel appliances, granite counter tops, hardwood floors all show their age and get dinged, crack and look out of date in under ten years.
……………………
Our home was built in 84. Bought it in 91. Nothing special. DH did some major renos in 2000 but did not go w/SS or granite. We put good quality HW in the living areas. Sure they’ve gotten dinged – part of living. But, they are not cracked & out of date. This year we put HW in the bedrooms. I’m so pleased to finally get rid of all that old original carpeting that required shampooing every few years. HW is so much easier to keep clean. I have a Bissell 3-in-1 vac, so light weight & easy to use.

#137 Saskatoon Housing Bubble on 11.16.12 at 3:10 pm

For those wondering as CMHC nears it’s $600 billion fiscal cliff…

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZgcGqbMX7lo/UJk3j73akHI/AAAAAAAAD_A/3-lrHPTFuBE/s1600/CMHC+in+billions+mortgage+insurance.jpg

From CMHC: Under the National Housing Act (NHA), the total of outstanding insured amounts of all insured loans may not exceed $600 billion. CMHC’s total insurance-in-force, which represents the risk exposure of the CMHC mortgage loan insurance activity, increased to approximately $576 billion as of June 30, 2012, approximately 2 per cent higher than total insurance-in-force in December 2011.

Here is the mortgage insurance in force limit since 2000.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dT_trlOfFsU/UKPc2B7b7GI/AAAAAAAAEE0/FZ7uHNRLWog/s1600/CMHC+Mortgage+Insurance+In+Force+in+Billions.jpg

We all know that mortgage credit has grown like crazy of the last decade. But the amount of insured mortgages has grown even crazier. In 2007, the total amount of outstanding mortgage credit insured by CMHC was 40%. Today that number is 53%

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FgFfJmJ5zu0/UKP5Bj4hr2I/AAAAAAAAEFo/0BFx5uGgYBc/s1600/Total+Amount+of+Outstanding+Mortgage+Debt+Insured+By+CMHC+(+as+of+June+30,2012).jpg

In 1996, CMHC mortgage insurance was 15% of GDP.
In 2011, CMHC mortgage insurance was 34% of GDP.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D7FosGjNXH0/UKQfeMC5bkI/AAAAAAAAEGc/QNUGve2ThAQ/s1600/CMHC+Mortgage+Insurance+In+Force+As+A+Percentage+of+GDP.jpg

Here is the year over year growth of insured mortgages

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-65Fca0G17tQ/UKQnsvjdNoI/AAAAAAAAEHY/aiOxQfQlB20/s1600/Year+Over+Year+Growth+of+CMHC+Mortgage+Insurance+In+Force.jpg

Notice the huge numbers of mortgage insurance growth after 2006. Could that have been because of loosening mortgage rules?

Pre March 2006- CMHC: 5% down, 25 yr amortizations
March 2006 – CMHC: 0% down, 30 yr amortizations (Genworth announces 35 yr amortizations)
June 2006 – CMHC: 0% down, 35 yr amortizations, interest only payments allowed for 10 years
Nov 2006 – CMHC: 0% down, 40 yr amortizations, interest only payments allowed for 10 years

CMHC has had one of the largest roles in Canada’s housing bubble, if not THE largest role. This will be evident for the masses just a few years down the road when people dissect the bubble after it has popped. But most people here, already know CMHC’s role.

#138 Franke le Skank on 11.16.12 at 3:15 pm

I was watching Hot Property on CP24 last night and Al Sinclair from Remax is now saying that we’ve been experiecing a soft landing for the last 5 months. DA will be the next one to BEGIN his long transition from denial to the acceptance stage of the Kubler-Ross model.

#139 Canuck Abroad on 11.16.12 at 3:18 pm

Hey Toronto! Don’t be afraid to offer 75% of the price…

http://themashcanada.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/and-it-went-for_16.html

#140 5 Things Wrong With Garth Turner's Post On Toronto Condo Assignments « on 11.16.12 at 3:18 pm

[...] in his blog he tackled Toronto condo assignments. As usual, I disagreed with pretty much everything he said. [...]

#141 Brad in Calgary on 11.16.12 at 3:30 pm

Garth,
Calgarians still waiting for their apology. Red hot market and who knows how many people you wrongly scared away from buying here.

#142 John416 on 11.16.12 at 3:42 pm

Garth, would love to see a blog on property assessments. Lately I’m hearing a lot of grumbling about unfair assessments. I realize these assessments probably don’t factor in future economic conditions but how do they come up with the number? Is there a standard methodology used across the country? It seems very arbitrary and a legalized government cash-grab.

Here ya go. — Garth

#143 Programmer on 11.16.12 at 3:53 pm

#20 House Horny Housewife

You nailed it!

Comments like yours make me miss a voting feature on the comments.

Garth,

why don’t you allow voting on people’s comments? That will be really interesting and will probably point readers (specially virgins) in the right direction. (yes, I guess Smoking Man will have fun with this, but that’s a small price to pay)

Please, consider it. It’s not hard to implement. (as well as registration. It can be optional, and probably it will avoid a lot of useless comments)

Thanks for all this knowledge.

#144 Rusty Venture on 11.16.12 at 4:02 pm

#143 Brad

Enjoy the moment. With all the ‘tight’ oil the ‘Merkins are starting to pump, I don’t know how much longer it will last.

Not to worry, though, oil has always been a boom-bust business.

#145 Tony on 11.16.12 at 4:23 pm

Re: #143 Brad in Calgary on 11.16.12 at 3:30 pm

All i see is falling prices in Calgary and an increase in foreclosures.

#146 Canadian Watchdog on 11.16.12 at 4:25 pm

#142 5 Things Wrong With Garth Turner’s Post On Toronto Condo Assignments «

“>>The truth is you need at least 15% – 20% deposits. ”

Really? Spread out over what, two, three, four years? In other words, developers are giving loans to depositors in order to leverage-up on another loan, a mortgage.

Deposit Structure:
$5000 on signing
5%-$5000 in 30 days
5%-in 120 days
5%-in 270 days
5%-in 540 days

Deposit Structure:
$5, 000 on signing;
balance to 5% in 30 days;
5% in 120 days;
5% in 360 days;
2.5% in 720 days;
2.5% occupancy.

Realtors are in absolute panic about their shadow futures market they knew nothing about. Here, go tell your clients what happens when futures prices go into contango, since you forget to inform them about ‘risk’.

Gonna be lots of these Garth when prices start heading south. More then 50% of investors are still idiots like this one.

#147 Form Man on 11.16.12 at 4:29 pm

#132 John Prine

I will leave when Garth asks me too. As for my posts, I counter DA’s falsehoods with concise, truthful rebuttals.

If it offends you, don’t read them……

#148 Buy? Curious? on 11.16.12 at 4:35 pm

Garth, have noticed that people are going after you more than usual?

Who was the person that said the the 3 stages of Truth are 1. laughed and ridiculed
2. violently opposed
3. finally accepted

Was it Gandhi or Smoking Man? I get those two confused all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN46PjBbns0&feature=player_embedded#!

#149 Tony on 11.16.12 at 4:41 pm

Re: #127 Toronto Condo Bidding War on 11.16.12 at 1:06 pm

Rents will of course fall as condo prices plunge. Unlike Calgary and Edmonton Toronto renters pay their rent instead of skipping out on it. That’s one of the main reasons why Toronto condo prices haven’t taken the huge fall seen in both Calgary and Edmonton.

#150 GTA Girl on 11.16.12 at 4:59 pm

Much of the presale assignment sales are off the books. often the developer gets a cut.

What media is unaware or fails to report, is that developers have organized ‘investor clusters’ that hold many of the prime units. These clusters are often made up of developer pals, family, drug dealer pals, mistress’s, condo sales staff. No money really changes hands. Then the contracts are sold to other investors. These are often offshore investors, foreign and those wishing to hide their money abroad.

Pity the poor schmuck who waltzes into a condo sales centre with his own money to buy.

The CRA would have a field day. From kickbacks on construction costs, capital gains unfiled, blatant money laundering and a twisted snake of Ponzi scheme throughout.

Makes you wonder why the CRA haven’t jumped into it.

Toronto’s future is teetering. It will be hard to keep a lid on it, when the concrete fails, or empty condos can’t be insured, and condo boards are faced with law suits.

Will the developers finally be vilified for what they’ve done?

They are the new carny con men.

What’s behind the curtain would make Mark Carney faint.

#151 Doug in London on 11.16.12 at 5:26 pm

@MM, post #110:
You make some good points here about who is or isn’t downtrodden. As for those people who looked down their noses and judged negatively the poor renters that their expensive homes were displacing, especially those who borrowed heavily to buy those homes, they’ll have no one to blame but themselves should they become financially destroyed when a long overdue correction occurs. Many people dig their own financial graves.

#152 };-) aka Devil's Advocate on 11.16.12 at 5:34 pm

#143Brad in Calgary on 11.16.12 at 3:30 pm
Garth,
Calgarians still waiting for their apology. Red hot market and who knows how many people you wrongly scared away from buying here.

Oooooo you’re gonna take it on the chin for that one my friend. They (Blog Dawg Doom and Gloomers) don’t care that the Calgary market is “red hot”. First they will deny it and then they’ll retort that if it is, in fact, that’s all the more reason not to buy, and I have to be honest with you and say; I wouldn’t disagree with them on the later.

When I bolster the Kelowna market it is because it is stable and predictable and has been so for the past four years such that, all things being equal, one might reasonably expect it to continue. Were the Kelowna market “red hot” I would be a little concerned as generally then it only has one way to go and that is to “cool”. But Kelowna is not red hot. As AAIC Okanagan said “it is what it is” he just doesn’t seem to know what that is.

Everything in moderation, be it the markets or one’s expressed view on where they are headed. Extremism is as extremism does and that is no good. Seriously no one here is going to believe you regardless what proof you provide. They are all fanatical Garthonian Brethren who take his solemn word literally with no latitude for moderation.

#153 PoorgEoisie on 11.16.12 at 6:03 pm

#142, 5 things wrong with Garth…

In #3 of your list you state sellers will not get desperate unless:
1)can’t close… “credit would have to tighten significantly”

Ask Canadian watchdog how much available credit is out there. Creditors have no choice but to tighten standards.

2) they lose their job “if a recession occurs we are all screwed not just condo flippers”

Look around global demand for most things is falling and there is downward pressure on wages. Garth has never suggested that a recession would only effect condo flippers.

3) You claim that people won’t be losing money renting out places they bought at 700/sqft.

Please examine historical rent/income ratios. If you are telling clients they can just jack up rents and ride out the storm you are being deceitful. For people that bought with even 10% down on a 30 year am, it would be nearly impossible to rent out and be cash flow positive. If you disagree please show an example.

Most of your article revolves around the idea of ” yeah but if that happens, we’re all screwed”, the question is: how screwed would you like to be?

#154 NFN_NLN on 11.16.12 at 6:51 pm

#26 NFN_NLN on 11.15.12 at 10:30 pm

#16 ChickenLittle on 11.15.12 at 10:04 pm

They call him flipper, flipper, faster than lightning…no one you see, is smarter than he…

Hahha, someone should re-edit a video of condo flippers to this soundtrack. It could be epic.

—-

http://www.crapwecomeupwithatwork.com/crap/flippwhore-the-condo-flipper-theme-song/

#155 Real Estate: Condo market “speculation and flipping ” (from Greater Fool Blog) | on 11.16.12 at 7:53 pm

[...] http://www.greaterfool.ca/2012/11/15/the-flip-2/#comments [...]

#156 TurnerNation on 11.16.12 at 8:09 pm

XIU.TO massive volume today. This, to me, means program/basket buying.

#157 Just_looking on 11.16.12 at 8:11 pm

#150 Buy? Curious?

Was it Gandhi or Smoking Man? I get those two confused all the time.

Priceless :)

#158 Daisy Mae on 11.16.12 at 8:11 pm

#120 PERPLEXED: “STARTING TO WONDER ABOUT YOU.”

You’re only starting? — Garth

********************

And PERPLEXED is still yelling…. ;)

#159 broadway skytrain on 11.16.12 at 8:14 pm

http://www.vancouversun.com/homes/Photos+Vancouver+very+priciest+homes/7561399/story.html

the power of vancouver RE – bring 20M or fuggadaboudit.

AND note , in the first house , how we do price reductions over in the westside……
*price 16.8M (price cut from 15.8M) – don’t make me cut this again!!!

#160 Toronto_CA on 11.16.12 at 8:29 pm

Awesome post Garth, thanks.

#161 AACI Okanagan on 11.16.12 at 8:50 pm

114 };-) aka D.A. on 11.16.12 at 11:49 am

Anyway, I think I’ve said enough. It really doesn’t matter to me what the two of you think. What bothers me is when others are given misinformation.
—————————————————————-

I feel the same way about you.. I put up my email months ago and challenged you to come into my office and try and dispute my data.. nothing from you (i did get a couple of jobs though :) ) . Your Statistics… like a bikini; reveal what is interesting but not what is essential.

#162 TurnerNation on 11.16.12 at 9:02 pm

#31Old Man

Correcting, I meant the Duke of Westminister (under FCP).

#163 Grim Reaper/Crypt Speculator on 11.16.12 at 9:19 pm

Actually …..I get Smoking man and this dude confused

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaezjE1uJTw

PS Dr Wanker…you are next

#164 maxx on 11.16.12 at 10:01 pm

#46 Bottoms_Up on 11.15.12 at 11:15 pm

The suits who came up with this gem ought to be shown the door without hesitation and sans packages. We are now fed up and are analyzing other options.

#165 An Cat Dubh on 11.16.12 at 11:49 pm

I have relatives who bought a place in Victoria a couple of years back. I gave them links to this blog and tried to get them to read, but to no avail. Now their place is up for sale. They will lose money on it. They hope to sell then rent. They made money on their last place as they sold at the peak.
If you do have money to spend in Victoria. Here is a nice Victorian designed place on the ocean for 4.2M. Do you really need a 1200 sq. ft. master bedroom?!

http://www.theprovince.com/homes/Gallery+Victorian+style+Victoria/7554525/story.html#axzz2CRoyEtdb

#166 KenR on 11.17.12 at 12:05 am

The issue is not whether real estate will correct in Canada; which it will. The issue is fundamental changes in our lifestyle. What does online shoppng do to local tax revenues. What does falling property values do to local tax bases. This is all in the works, but do local governments get the message?

#167 TurnerNation on 11.17.12 at 10:52 am

#170KenR – No, local governments do not get the messages as most reps are vying to move up into MPP and MP positions. Why bite the hand that feeds you. Tow the party line.
What a system.

#168 jerry on 11.17.12 at 10:55 am

Hi Garth:

Congrats on winning the ‘world’s most amusing splenetic’ title – a lot of the votes came from our house.

You need to Google “Nillionaire” for your next post – it’s a neoligism which should give you lots of inspiration.