RIMland

Jim and Sheila are both engineers at RIM. They’ve been debating buying a house in Waterloo. Jim’s home town. “We’ve been watching this very closely,” Sheila told me when we met ten days ago, “and prices have been coming down. There are some great deals.”

No wonder. And beginning this weekend, there’ll be one helluva lot more motivated sellers.

As you know, Thursday was the middle of the end, or maybe the end of the end, for Research in Motion, once a Nortel-like Canadian wonderco, inventor of the iconic Blackberry. The company lost more than $500 million in just 90 days. It does not have the resources to launch a saviour product. Company stock lost about 20% of its value last night, on top of the 70% decline it’s already suffered. Worse, another 5,000 people – a third of its remaining workforce – will be axed. I have no idea if that includes engineers, but I bet.

RIM is a massive presence in the K-W area of Ontario. The impact of these job losses – high-value-added, high-wage, high-knowledge positions – is inestimable. The company is the city’s largest employer, with about 8,000 people (at least at noon on Thursday) on its local payroll. It owns the most offices of any company in town. It donates the most. It generates the most taxes. It’s become the region’s very future. And it’s about the only reason a decent house is tough to find for less than $450,000.

But this is not about RIM, K-W or Jim and Sheila. It’s about jobs.

This week telecommunications giant Rogers laid off a few hundred. The big newspaper chains are shedding employees like lint. The federal government sent out termination notices on Thursday to about 5,000 employees in 13 departments. The unemployment rate is stuck at 7.3% and 22,500 private-sector jobs vanished in May. Southern Ontario west of RIM’s head office is an employment wasteland. Meanwhile oil at $78 has brought the bankruptcy of dozens of oil and gas companies in Alberta and threatens the sands themselves. If it weren’t for about 26,000 people forced into self-employment last month, our national numbers would be even worse.

Of course it wasn’t rising interest rates or falling banks which ultimately leveled US housing and kept it pinned for the past six years. It was unemployment, which topped out about two points higher than our current level. When people lose confidence in their jobs, they don’t buy houses. In fact, they sell. Kitchener-Waterloo will learn that in a few months.

As you know, this spate of tough news comes just as the feds finally move to deflate a housing bubble their own policies helped gasify. Dropping the mortgage amortization maximum, outlawing cash-back down payments and raising borrower requirements will make houses less affordable and thereby reduce prices. Now this.

It all makes a joke of the news we continue to be fed. For example as RIM was falling on its sword, CREA was feting an increase in national house prices and sales – and forecasting a 4% jump in 2012 as a whole.  “National activity over spring months was stronger than anticipated,” CREA president Wayne Moen said. “This shows clearly how the continuation of low interest rates is keeping homeownership affordable and within reach.”

However rates don’t matter. I’m sure Wayne knows that, but he gets paid to spin.

Whether our housing market has a hard or a soft landing is yet unclear. But land it will. So far I’ve written 1,102 posts on how to get ready, which probably indicates I should get a life.

Anyway I have not heard from Jim and Sheila in the last few hours. Don’t even know if RIM has identified the people that will soon be ex-employees. But I’m sure they’re thinking a lot more about the discussion we had about house versus financial investments. Buying anywhere in RIMland right now would be a fail. Over the next year and beyond, the 401 leading out of town will be busy, and many families will understand what a risk it is to have the bulk of their net worth sitting in one, illiquid and unmovable object.

As I have said so many times, love liquidity. It will save you.

When Jim calls, by the way, I’ll ask if he dumped the vested stock in his company’s DPSP. When we met I told him to sell it the next morning. Not yet, he said. “We’re waiting for a rebound.”

Well, I try.

268 comments ↓

#1 buylow on 06.28.12 at 9:09 pm

wow, RIM tipped the scale to real estate meltdown

#2 Peter Goesinya on 06.28.12 at 9:14 pm

I’d like to point out that the co-op refinery in Dumpy Regina has been laying off a couple thousand workers this month.

I wish I wasn’t so awesome at my job, so they would lay me off too.

It’s not easy being this awesome. Just Sayin Garth!

#3 Suede on 06.28.12 at 9:17 pm

Too bad Balsillie didn’t get a hockey team – he tried to diversify but got puckblocked

#4 espressobob on 06.28.12 at 9:20 pm

Thats the problem with tech. Lots of job openings and on to the moon! then BANG, yer gone, scary. who is next? No wonder our economy is in a tailspin.

#5 scared on 06.28.12 at 9:21 pm

Man….is there a silver lining somewhere??? Anyone seeing some light at the end of the tunnel or is that an oncoming train????

#6 Smoking Man on 06.28.12 at 9:23 pm

KW. Real estate done like donuts. 1st to 42second. Streets south of lake shore.in GTA Long way up to go.

Heading to Atlantic city for the weekend to throw away a few bucks that were made so easly. Easy come easy go..

Have a great week end bubble heads.

Be safe.

LaughingCND. Looking forward to the same copy paste posts. Not. Would like you to be a bit more creative.

#7 MarcFromOttawa on 06.28.12 at 9:28 pm

What kind of jobs are there in RIMLand?

#8 a prairie dawg on 06.28.12 at 9:28 pm

Jim and Sheila are both engineers at RIM. They’ve been debating buying a house in Waterloo. Jim’s home town. “We’ve been watching this very closely,” Sheila told me when we met ten days ago, “and prices have been coming down. There are some great deals.”

- — -

And they’re supposedly educated people…

God help us all. lol

#9 Ralph Cramdown on 06.28.12 at 9:29 pm

Housing declines led unemployment increases in the US.

Lack of jobs made it worse, and kept prices falling. — Garth

#10 pathcontrolmonk on 06.28.12 at 9:29 pm

DELETED

#11 Vik on 06.28.12 at 9:31 pm

In other news, Jason Kenny hits the pause button
on skilled worker and investor programs. That wealthy
foreign buyer might not show up this year to bid on
Leaside bunglow.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/releases/2012/2012-06-28.asp

#12 Party On Garth on 06.28.12 at 9:32 pm

He’ll be waiting a long time for that rebound. I can relate, I hold MFC-T.

#13 a prairie dawg on 06.28.12 at 9:35 pm

So far I’ve written 1,102 posts on how to get ready, which probably indicates I should get a life.

- — -

I’ll trade you lives for a year if you need any more motivation. lol

#14 BearInPhoenix on 06.28.12 at 9:36 pm

At the school we learn how to make money, but nothing about finance (what to do with the money), it affects the people.

Macro economy today is about politics and not about core financial principles, it affects the government.

Greed and living beyond our means, it affects people and government.

All these facts, together with others, will make from these crisis periodic and repetitive events, until we (people and government) finish our main task consisting in destroying our planet.

Awesome blog, keep your hard work

#15 JO on 06.28.12 at 9:36 pm

Talk RIMM job.
Home prices ought to drop faster and harder than expected.

#16 Scotsman in the middle on 06.28.12 at 9:37 pm

Garth thanks for your insights. You should be mandatory reading for ALL property buyers and not only property virgins

#17 Toronto_CA on 06.28.12 at 9:40 pm

Kitchener-Waterloo still has 2 universities (one pretty large) and several large insurance companies in town (as well as other tech companies besides RIM sitting next to UWaterloo)—but I still think you’re right. A few thousands high paying jobs in one city being elminated at once will be analogous to those mining towns when a mine shuts down. Not pretty.

I’m very curious to see where the employment and housing numbers will be sitting by October. I think all this recent news will take a few months to show up in the MSM figures.

#18 Tim on 06.28.12 at 9:43 pm

Sure, and they can come to Alberta, where 27000 good paying jobs go unfilled. Not surprised that you failed to mention this.

How many engineers y’all hiring for UI development with AJAX and similar technologies, client application development for Windows/Mac (Chrome, Toolbar, etc.) with Java, Javascript, or C/C++. Python and Linux scripting skills? Or do I just need a horse? — Garth

#19 Saskatoon-Living on 06.28.12 at 9:47 pm

Wonder if Potash Corp, BHP, Cameco and the other resource companies will be slowing down in SK. Commodities are low, but people here are still spending like crazy. Garth, do you think it’ll take a year for house prices to decline in Saskatoon or will it be sooner??

#20 Dr.NickRiviera on 06.28.12 at 9:48 pm

One of the largest, most established video game companies in Vancouver went under today as well.

Radical Entertainment – 89 tech jobs toast

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/06/28/bc-radical-entertainment-layoffs.html

#21 mark on 06.28.12 at 9:48 pm

A lot of well educated people are money stupid. Their saving grace is they usually make enough to keep papering over the cracks.

That’s until they don’t.

#22 jay on 06.28.12 at 9:51 pm

I’m sorry to hear about rim job loss is never pleasant. I finshed a heating air condtioning course this year to only grad in the year that there laying off. I’ve been offered a job at commerical site in vancouver doing construction starting in july. The Air condtioning/ heating companies are telling me there having the worst time in 9 years.

#23 Vik on 06.28.12 at 9:58 pm

#7 MarcFromOttawa on 06.28.12 at 9:28 pm

What kind of jobs are there in RIMLand?
$11 / hr!
http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/detail-eng.aspx?OrderNum=6493399&Source=JobPosting&CmmGrp=GON008&Sources=JobBank,&OpPage=50&Stdnt=No

http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-jobs-programmers-computer-Electronics-Assembler-W0QQAdIdZ376406696

#24 Dr.NickRiviera on 06.28.12 at 9:58 pm

Also – I work for a large organization in a certain capital city of Alberta that is about to lay off about 300 people. Things seem very 2008 these days – kind of eerie.

#25 East Van on 06.28.12 at 10:06 pm

Nortel and RIM gone – oh well, we can always sell raw bitumen and unmilled logs to China. Who needs manufacturing jobs. S.H. and the gang will keep the coal tar sands money flowing in untill the last polar bear lives in a tropical paradise.

#26 Inglorious Investor on 06.28.12 at 10:08 pm

In 2008, when RIM shares were tickling $150, the company attempted to leverage its dominance in the government and corporate sectors and begin a foray into the consumer market.

I told a friend at the time who was a long-time stock holder and who made a killing on RIM shares that IMO RIM was no longer a good long-term hold. He didn’t really believe me, but just to be safe he sold half of his position.

After RIM fell to about $15 not too long ago I told him I still would not touch the stock. “But the price is less than book,” he protested. “So what?” I said, “The company has dismal prospects, humdrum products, lacks innovation, was losing market share galore, pathetic developer support, and a brand that was quickly losing its equity.”

“But someone is going to buy them,” was his rejoinder.

“Why would they?” I asked. I don’t think there is quite as much value there as people think. What’s more, my read on Jim and Mike is that they are arrogant savants who think they have what it takes to rebuild and are likely loathe to sell and admit defeat.”

And yet, you know there were still many people (mostly Canadians) who had not lost hope (even after the Co-CEOs were thrown out with their golden parachutes, or perhaps because of it). The stock was sure to rebound. Someone was bound to buy it. This $15 stock would jump to $30 overnight. Well, there are no buyers, more delays, huge losses, big layoffs, and the stock closed at $7.86 US after hours. RIM, in short, is dying.

Like RE, RIM shows us what happens when the fundamentals supporting a company, or a market are broken. The housing market in Canada is likely done. The fundamentals, particularly in places like Ontario, simply do not support housing values that are so much higher than comparable locations south of the 49th. And, as Garth points out, the forces acting against housing prices are really starting to kick in now.

Yet people refuse to believe it’s possible. But in the markets, almost anything is possible. And they will refuse to believe it all the way down, hoping that things will get better, that prices will rebound. So they will hold, and hold, and hold, until it’s all gone.

In trading, there’s a saying: “Your first loss is your best loss.” In other words, set your risk and no more. Don’t let a small loss become a big loss. Now is indeed a risky time to put too much stock in housing, especially if there is the possibility of the dreaded “margin call.”

#27 Dee on 06.28.12 at 10:08 pm

So Rim goes under. Would not the universaties, insurance companys and Toyota keep the city going? My husband works at Toyota. We have a small house, medium morgage, should we sell?

#28 blase on 06.28.12 at 10:08 pm

$11/hr to work at RIMM? To put that into perspective, that was my pay working at Bank of Nova Scotia in 1995 as a teller with one year of experience.

It was also the minimum wage in Australia in 2003 when I visited there. Mcdonald’s workers pay.

So, RIMM is the Mcjob of Canada, without the free meal on your shift.

sad.

Where did it say the unskilled factory jobs were at RIM? — Garth

#29 soho n.e on 06.28.12 at 10:10 pm

starting,talked to a engineer in bopeep land.he said a builder started a house and suddenly stopped.foundation was almost finished.he paid for permits,plans,engineering,and the big one,BUILDING LOT.1.2 MIL.I called the realtor it was on the market .I hung up on him when he said”asking oh 1.5MIL”.Now thats a realturd!You can’t even collect rent.I drove by ,you get 2by6 footings.Whats going on bpoe! explanation please.

#30 TurnerNation on 06.28.12 at 10:14 pm

I though a pot watched never boils?

#31 Ben on 06.28.12 at 10:17 pm

Very sorry to hear about any reduction in rim jobs. Seems like something that a lot of people want.

#32 Johnny D on 06.28.12 at 10:19 pm

@ #2Peter Goesinya

I wonder why the CREApost… I mean Leaderpost doesn’t report such things.

#33 Linda Pearson on 06.28.12 at 10:21 pm

How many engineers y’all hiring for UI development with AJAX and similar technologies, client application development for Windows/Mac (Chrome, Toolbar, etc.) with Java, Javascript, or C/C++. Python and Linux scripting skills? Or do I just need a horse? — Garth

Show-off :>)

#34 Ex-RIM on 06.28.12 at 10:21 pm

It isn’t just KW. Ottawa will get hurt by the RIM collapse as well. Where do you think all the ex-Nortel radio people went?

#35 TurnerNation on 06.28.12 at 10:23 pm

#18 Tim on 06.28.12 at 9:43 pm

It’s funny when Boomers talk about the Internets. :-)
Love the Interwebs.

#36 Peter NYC on 06.28.12 at 10:25 pm

Dear Garth great post yesterday sorry I missed it. Interesting to see you are more constructive on US RE. I have been a fan and have been accumulating properties for a while. I just lost my job. Interestingly I am so pleased that I got all that financing in place when I did bc today without employment I wouldn’t even be able to refinance my primary home. These US properties are all netting positive cash so it is nice to have another income stream at a time like this.

My two cents – don’t do it alone work with a rehabber. Your client was interested in Atlanta. Ken Corsini of Georgia Residential is a great honest guy with a sound business model. I bought two fully detached 3 bedroom homes from them for $80,000 a piece in my wife’s IRA they produce solid tax deferred income

Phoenix – sorry you are too late. The smoking hot deals are gone. Be careful not too buy centex and pulte crap built in the 2004-2006 period with Chinese drywall and aluminum can garage doors!!!

#37 gloom and doom on 06.28.12 at 10:28 pm

I hate to be the voice of reason but realestate ain,t go anywhere except in thisontario province its the onlyplacewhere we still have jobs and cheap interest rates …and besides your buddy flarety the midg !has tryed shananagans previously and things still went up!

#38 John on 06.28.12 at 10:29 pm

In Richmond BC, some idiot wants sellers to band together and pull listings off the market so they can get back to bidding wars there. I love it!!!

http://whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.ca/2012/06/sellers-unite.html

#39 TRT on 06.28.12 at 10:29 pm

“So far I’ve written 1,102 posts on how to get ready, which probably indicates I should get a life.”

…and not 1 one Temporary Foreign Workers + International Students + Permanent Immigration + Refugees and their effect on RE prices in Vancouver and Toronto.

and all the doctors crying about cuts to healthcare for refugees…why not donate your time?? The only refugees I’ve ever known are ones that end up at a relatives place once they are in Canada…

#40 John on 06.28.12 at 10:32 pm

Great and informative article. It sure is about jobs. Try to find job loss that is driven by domestic or regional changes. All the jobs going are being impacted by a the machinations of a borderless world. This is important, and shows what housing is tied to.

Chile hosted China’s leader this week…and supposedly all is golden. How golden are our jobs here? As good as real (or state imposed) Chinese growth. It’s all about copper.

Another inside dope. Union investment ( German mutual fund…also owns Bell Trinity Square) announced they’re selling our building today…and ALL their buildings in Chile. Getting out of the country. Why? Because overheated commoditites means a “healthy” Chilean economy…helping build ghost cities in China. Could the party be over? Watch the Germans. Selling at the top in Chile to grab firesales in Europe. This is how wealth is transferred.

Nothing domestic goin’ on down here in Santiago. Canada might be exposed to these dynamics? Break down the dynamics of the RIM job losses. Plug it into real estate with THAT in mind.

Now we’re onto something real.

#41 TRT on 06.28.12 at 10:36 pm

Regarding RIM,

Smartphones are well on their way of becoming a commodity. A brand or two will survive that has the WOW factor (upper class will own these phones and lower class will long to have them). These brands will command a premium (Iphone, Galaxy S).

These brands will smash sales records every time a new flagship device is released regardless of the technical advancements of the unit. Why? Because the top 10% has the money to switch phones every 6 months/1 year and brand and status is important in todays world.

RIM is history. Today, they have basically said a sale is imminent. But who will buy the handset division/BBM/Enterprise/Patents??

#42 Dr. Fred on 06.28.12 at 10:36 pm

Courts will give them 1 month per yr of service. Hopefully they have long tenures. Then they can go on EI after that. Easy.

#43 timbo on 06.28.12 at 10:38 pm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48003041

“The Ford Motor Company’s chief financial officer said Thursday that the automaker’s international losses would triple in the second quarter, primarily because of much weaker European sales. The executive, Robert Shanks, also disclosed that Ford would consider closing an assembly plant in Europe should demand keep falling. ”

Come on Germany, buy a Ford……..

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/italy-spain-reportedly-block-eu-growth-pact-2012-06-28?link=MW_home_latest_news

“Italy and Spain have refused to back a growth agreement announced Thursday at this week’s two-day European Union summit, according to reports. Borrowing costs have risen to dangerously high levels in both Italy and Spain, and the countries want Germany to agree to short-term relief measures not included in the proposed growth deal”

What a mess. Italy and Spain fighting in the one corner of the room with Germany drinking wine in the other….

#44 Westernman on 06.28.12 at 10:38 pm

Today’s post validated one important thing people forget – bullshit jobs have a very short lifespan so get skilled at something REAL and you will be good to go will while the cubical weasels are wondering how they are going to make their their next massive mortgage payment and eat at the same time..
I liked the part about the Feds terminating about 5000… a good start, lets hope they keep at it…

#45 truth hammer on 06.28.12 at 10:40 pm

Jim & Sheila should look at the recent debacle at Nokia….a far more successful and historied wireless com co that RIM ever was globally. Nokia is in ruins…..not because the engineers were bad…they were some of the best…..RIM and Nokia died because of technical innovation….much like buggy whips and carriage makers….. it happens……KODAK anyone?

The only thing that RIM has left is the patent locker…ditto NOK……………Neither NOK or RIM can sell enough products to continue….they know that….the markets know that……many of the engineers at NOK are also in shock that generations of engineers are now unemployed and unemployable in a world that is shinking into fewer providers.

There have been at least 30,000 engineers at NOK……..many far more experianced thatn those at RIM……and they’re all on Linkedin networking for new jobs………the fallacy of Jim & Shiela is that they don’t understand the enforced misinformation withing the tiny circle of Canadian media.

Jim and Sheila are toast…….they just don’t know it yet becuase the lickspittle CDN media keeps saying that everything is going to be OK….it’s not….RIM is dead……dead like NOK….and a hundred others….dead tech.

Out of work engineers are a dime a dozen the world over……in Finland look at the mess that NOK left when it laid of thousands of highly paid engineers in Helsinki, Oolu and Tampere………little Waterloo doesn’t have a chance.

Think MFST will come to the rescue…….then you don’t know MFST.

#46 pathcontrolmonk on 06.28.12 at 10:41 pm

“DELETED”? Everyone will think I must have said something mind-numbingly obscene.

#25 East Van – the days of selling “raw bitumen and unmilled logs to China” are numbered, “Record-setting mountains of excess coal have accumulated at the country’s biggest storage areas because power plants are burning less coal in the face of tumbling electricity demand. But local and provincial government officials have forced plant managers not to report to Beijing the full extent of the slowdown…”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/business/global/chinese-data-said-to-be-manipulated-understating-its-slowdown.html?pagewanted=all

#47 50% correction predictor on 06.28.12 at 10:43 pm

Question to all:

We know what is coming.

But how to prepare if someone does not have a bunglow in Leaside to sell?

#48 Keeping the Faith on 06.28.12 at 10:45 pm

spike Wayne Moen

#49 Robo Monkey on 06.28.12 at 10:49 pm

I start with RIM as an engineer next week (seriously). I also just bought a relatively high-end house in Cambridge (still serious, it was either a house or my wife would leave me). I may be one of the money stupid people, but I am good at my job and money seems to be generally attracted to me (unlike my wife).

Also, RIM does have a few different developments in the works, so don’t give up on them yet.

#50 Keeping the Faith on 06.28.12 at 10:50 pm

#18 Tim … you’re a tool.
wonderful connection of logic, straight out the Alberta handbook, right beside ‘there’s no such thing as global warming’ and ‘Trudeau screwed us 5,000 decades ago, so let’s love Harper’. Truly a bunch of Stephen Hawkings living in that province.
… More like a bunch of trollibytes and critter crunchers.
… IDIOTS!!!

#51 Shrug80 on 06.28.12 at 10:53 pm

1,102 thanks Garth!

32 years old, and because of you, my young family will stand a chance.

#52 Tripp on 06.28.12 at 10:54 pm

@ #25 East Van

Sadly, this is true. We are a raw material supplier and I can hardly remember last time I saw Made in Canada on anything of significant value.

#53 Not 1st on 06.28.12 at 10:56 pm

Garth, why don’t we just bail them out. Works for U.S. industries, banks, spain, greece, italy, etc. Why not here?

#54 Keeping the Faith on 06.28.12 at 10:56 pm

I heard a rumour today that the Blackberry 10 is actually packaged with a spiral cord that attaches to you wall and comes in lengths of the standard 5 feet but can be purchased in the extra long 10 and 15 foot versions. It is accentuated with this cool charging base that has a spinning dialing system that resembles a clear disk with holes in it that correlate to the number you are dialing. When you are done talking to someone, instead of pressing a button on the handset, you need to return it to the ‘cradle’ for recharging and safe keeping. It comes in many different colours and costs can be reduced by paying for a ‘party’ line where multiple houses share one Blackberry 10 phone line … i have feeling it’s going to sell-out.

… can you smell that, it’s the toast burning, this one is done!

#55 Bottoms_Up on 06.28.12 at 10:58 pm

I feel truly sorry for that region, and anyone having bought a house there in the past 5 years….let’s hope that guy a few weeks back didn’t jump in head first and buy that downtown townhouse….

#56 Not 1st on 06.28.12 at 10:58 pm

How many engineers y’all hiring for UI development with AJAX and similar technologies, client application development for Windows/Mac (Chrome, Toolbar, etc.) with Java, Javascript, or C/C++. Python and Linux scripting skills? Or do I just need a horse? — Garth

_____

Those jobs go outsourced to India for 10% of the wages we pay here. Resource extraction is our game here in Canada.

#57 Benny on 06.28.12 at 11:00 pm

Garth is wrong on many counts.

RIM is not Waterloo’s largest employer, the University of Waterloo is.

RIM accounts for only a small percentage of high tech jobs in Waterloo (it’s not known as Silicon Valley North for nothing). Opentext, Manulife, Sunlife, McAfee, Raytheon, AGFA, Sybase, Desire2learn, Google and the two universities plus a college employ thousands of software developers, engineers and other high tech professionals in the Loo. Then there are the hundreds of start ups, there are more high tech startups in Waterloo than in any other city in Canada except for Toronto.

And most of the people getting canned at RIM are junior people. We’re talking 20 somethings and coop students. How many coop students do you know who own houses? They’re not letting senior engineers go, they’re badly needed by the company now more than ever.

The effect on the real estate market in KW from this will be negligible.

RIM is the region’s largest private-sector employer, and word among employees is its local force could be halved. As for them all being coop students, either you are this week’s RIM CEO or you’re blowing smoke, as the details have yet to be announced. Which is it? — Garth

#58 Keeping the Faith on 06.28.12 at 11:02 pm

#37 gloom and doom
i hope you have fun standing inside the empty condo this weekend you are trying to sell … long days when there are no prospective buyers. I hear that Shades of Grey is a good book, you should give it a try to spice up your weekend, certainly not going to get excitement from tire-kicking real estate prospects.

#59 Oshawa vs. Kitchener on 06.28.12 at 11:06 pm

So, to the east we have Oshawa and General Motors dumping thousands of factory workers…even after we gave them millions in tax dollars.

And to the west we have the RIM implosion.

Oh my.

Which will feel real estate values fall first? Hardest?

Are all these people going to move to Toronto?

It ain’t much better there.

#60 Jonno on 06.28.12 at 11:07 pm

Rim shares tumbled 15% in after hours trading today the future does not look too bright for Rim. Many pundits this week were suggesting it had hit bottom, a new low will be in when the markets open tomorrow…

#61 ANONYMOUS on 06.28.12 at 11:07 pm

Quote: ( “When people lose confidence in their jobs, they don’t buy houses. In fact, they sell. Kitchener-Waterloo will learn that in a few months.”)

Answer: I wish you were right about that, but Canadians are “MORE” stupid than Americans, and as a result we keep to our hopes and dreams for years, holding onto that over-priced house until finally the banks have to pry it away from out dead cold hands.

AS FOR RIM: If they want to DOUBLE THEIR SALES, simply build a phone with slide-out or flip-down keypad, simple! The thing that people like the most about RIM phone is those buttons, but as the phones have gotten smaller those little buttons have gotten smaller too, and the one way to get back larger buttons is to have a separate keypad that would simply either slide out to the side, or flip down below the phone so that a larger almost ‘netbook’ like feeling could be enjoyed. If that happend then I could see people actually dumping their laptops to use a RIM phone. But no, instead they bring out a new model that dumps the keypad all together and uses the flat touchpad like Google phones; what a waste, that’s going to kill their sales ! The guys in charge of figuring out what people want are idiots and as a result the company will soon go the way of ‘ATARI’ .

On the bright side: Wal-Mart is hiring, maybe those RIM engineers can get jobs in Wal-Mart?
(Wal-Mart is converting ex-Zellers stores to smaller versions of Wal-Mart.)

Oh yes, to #18 ‘ Tim’ : Yes, those RIM engineers can come to Alberta and TRY to find a job, but they won’t be able to find a job because with $78 oil the oil-patch jobs are quickly evaporating, so no jobs there for the unemployed RIM workers. (sad.)

#23 – ‘Vik’ said that RIM jobs are paying around $11 / hr. Well, actually, RIM assembly jobs are paying about $15/hr. Those jobs are from a temp company who hires people to assemble for DALSA, another high-tech company in the Waterloo region.

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/detail-eng.aspx?OrderNum=6493399&Source=JobPosting&CmmGrp=GON008&Sources=JobBank,&OpPage=50&Stdnt=No

Wal-Mart is about the same, $11/hr. So how can $11/hr buy a $400,000 house in K-W ? I’m still trying to figure that one out.

#62 Keeping the Faith on 06.28.12 at 11:09 pm

#49 robo monkey
…. hahahahhahahhahahahah stop it …. you’re killing me…. hahahaha LOL LOL LOL LOL … hhahahahhahaha. You are getting me snorting with my laughter right now quit it please, i need to go to bed and I hate taking ambien but right now LOL hahahahhaah, you are hilarious. YOu can’t make this sh_t up!!! Money is attracted you … ok money-magneto!

… young, dumb and full of … BS.

#63 OlderbutWiser on 06.28.12 at 11:10 pm

RIM is in serious trouble no doubt (I have a Blackberry for work). Was in the Eaton Centre the other day picking up a new Nano ipod. Could not believe the number of people in the store. I literally thought they were giving something away for free. They had to have had at least 50 employees working on the floor and the place was jam packed with customers. The Rogers store next door (selling Blackberry’s) had hardly a soul in the place. Believe what you see, not what you hear. Going to purchase some Apple stock now……

#64 Bottoms_Up on 06.28.12 at 11:11 pm

#39 TRT on 06.28.12 at 10:29 pm
—————————————
Actually this blog, with Garth’s participation, has discussed, multiple times, the impact of immigration on real estate prices…and it isn’t large.

A vastly larger segment of the buying activity is from investors/speculators.

#65 Phil on 06.28.12 at 11:15 pm

My thoughts are with those 5,000 employees losing sleep tonight. Must be a horrible feeling.

#66 Mr Buyer on 06.28.12 at 11:16 pm

#9 Ralph Cramdown on 06.28.12 at 9:29 pm
Housing declines led unemployment increases in the US.

Lack of jobs made it worse, and kept prices falling. — Garth
……………………………………………………………….
That is the big problem with real estate bubbles. They have wider repercussions. House prices collapse because bubbles collapse, it has nothing to do with jobs or interest rates on the way down. Bubbles become divorced from business as usual. Jobs do not matter during the collapse. The word confidence has be used a few times. A soft landing is a confidence game in the dark sense of the term. To see people avoid the disastrous bubble only to be convinced to jump into a bear trap is unacceptable. There are no unicorns or soft landings to be found during the collapse of a bubble. There never have been and in all likelihood there never will be. How is this for a real estate advertisement…
We just love our house. We got it at 15% below the asking price which was outrageous to begin with thanks to our Prime minister. Sure the house fell 20 more percent subsequently and continues to fall but hardly at all now. Interest rates have increased a little as well but what is the difference between paying double the price by the time the mortgage is discharged or doing the same on a house that has lost value. It is all still money we did not have to start with. Be a good citizen and catch a falling knife. Brought to you by your local real estate board in affiliation with you ruling political party.

#67 timbo on 06.28.12 at 11:18 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/29/eurozone-statement-idUSL6E8HT02020120629

“European leaders agreed on Friday to create a single supervisory body for euro zone banks and to allow them to be recapitalised directly by the currency area’s rescue fund without adding to government debt.”

Must of been one hell of a yelling match with sky is falling and locust threats. Markets might just party for a while until reality strikes again……………

#68 Inglorious Investor on 06.28.12 at 11:18 pm

#49 Robo Monkey on 06.28.12 at 10:49 pm

Good luck to you. I mean that sincerely. I hope RIM can pull through, but having stuff in the works is not enough. They’ve had stuff in the works for years now. But so does everybody else. RIM’s biggest problem is execution, not ideas. Look at Nortel. They had lots of great stuff too, including LTE. But it was just too late to matter for them. Canada has some brilliant talent. Hopefully you are one of them. Let’s also hope Mr. Heins will be able to capitalize on that.

#69 Fort Mac Flatlander on 06.28.12 at 11:20 pm

#2 Peter Goesinya

Were these layoffs primarily construction workers for their current expansion (because the work is coming to completion and ready for start-up,) or was it full time operaton positions?

I will be moving back to Saskatchistan within the next couple years, but new construction costs in Regina and Saskatoon rival those currently in Fort McMurray.

Totally insane.

#70 50% correction predictor on 06.28.12 at 11:23 pm

Stock futures are ripping higher! So do gold, silver, copper, oil…

It looks Merkle blinked. Europe has opened the money spigot!

Buy gold, buy oil, buy anything they can not print away! It may be the begining of hyperinflation!

Unfortunately for Canadian mortgage owners, the US bond yields are leaking higher!

Disclaimer: not for investment purose.

#71 HD on 06.28.12 at 11:23 pm

#49Robo Monkey

“I also just bought a relatively high-end house in Cambridge (still serious, it was either a house or my wife would leave me).”

It cracks me up so bad when someone says that. Perhaps I can’t understand because I don’t have a wife.

#72 dd on 06.28.12 at 11:28 pm

It is getting to the point that the government is manufacturing stats. Any lower and the US is in a recession.

Here is the latest from John Williams’ http://www.ShadowStats.com.

- Revised First-Quarter GNP Growth Plunged to 0.5% (Previously 1.3%)

#73 Only The Bankers Laugh on 06.28.12 at 11:29 pm

#49 Robo Monkey on 06.28.12 at 10:49 pm …it was either a house or my wife would leave me …money seems to be generally attracted to me

Robo monkey, Read what you wrote, son. So, your wife leaves you for not buying her a house with all of your money. Does that sound like love to you? Your career stability and money making power will attract many more potential wives without those crazy strings attached. Get out now if she is that unreasonable.

Only The Bankers Laugh

#74 Loan money to anyone on 06.28.12 at 11:29 pm

My heart goes out to all the good folks who are losing their jobs this week at RIM and other places.

Some of us have been through worse situations. I myself got laid off from a tech company a few weeks after 9/11, 2001. The whole tech industry imploded everywhere and I had 2 young kids and a mortgage to feed at the time. Fortunately, I’m thrifty and had enough savings to last until a new opportunity came along. I bought some of Garth’s investment books in the 90′s (i.e. After the Boom, etc) and his advice helped, too.

I’m sure new opportunities will come along for everyone, soon.

#75 Blasé on 06.28.12 at 11:29 pm

#23 post has $11 McJobs at mcrim.

robomonkey, I don’t remember buying a house being in marriage vows. our materialistic society has truly lead us to valuing home ownership over a spouse. truly sick what Canada has become in such a short time. this housing crash is needed as much as a bowel movement after a pizza hut Buffet lunch.

#76 Debtfree on 06.28.12 at 11:31 pm

Geez it’s just a bloody telephone . How I long for the ” don’t bet against America ” days . Er day ago.

#77 Anonymous on 06.28.12 at 11:34 pm

If anyone has any question about the health of the company ‘RIM’, just take a look at the 3-year chart of the company’s share price:

http://scharts.co/Qw1dcB

I think that just about says it all.

#78 T.O. Bubble Boy on 06.28.12 at 11:35 pm

RIM and Nokia should merge – misery loves company.

#79 Blasé on 06.28.12 at 11:37 pm

keeping the faith,

have some gratitude to albertans. they pay for your roads, healthcare, universities, EI, and govt pensions.

tell me, when was it that Alberta got a dime from any other province? the eastern creeps and bums who work for 14 weeks and collect EI the rest of the year were a badly kept secret until Harper let the cat out of the bag. he’s a douche, but you eastern leeches are in for a dose of reality if oil keeps dropping. mulcair should remember, be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

#80 Inglorious Investor on 06.28.12 at 11:41 pm

#186 TRT on 06.28.12 at 3:25 pm

“It’ll be interesting to see what flag colors will be worn in North Toronto, Vaughan,and Woodbridge on Canada Day July 1st.”

On July 1 Italian-Canadians will be fortunate enough to celebrate two great events. They will express their pride in the Italian national team (win or lose) AND their love for Canada. The two are not mutually exclusive.

German fan?

#81 Basil Fawlty on 06.28.12 at 11:49 pm

The Bank of International Settlements (the central bankers bank), is considering moving gold from a Tier 3 asset to Tier 1, which means gold would be a top rated form of collateral. Are they just a bunch of loony metalheads, or do they recognize that current Tier 1 assets, such as treasury bonds, are simply the paper of bankrupt sovereign states?

#82 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.28.12 at 11:50 pm

Wait till RIM cans the other two thirds of their workforce over the next five years as they get wound into the ground like a dry screw. Maybe they’ll get lucky and strike gold or oil! Then the real estate will be in flames, just like Detroit! Then maybe I’ll buy something if it strikes my fancy.

They will become a shadow of their former self. I always thought their gadgets were fluff, guess I was right – in the long run.

#83 wes coast on 06.28.12 at 11:52 pm

There is a common thread between RIM and hosuing that we haven’t touched on: the power of sentiment.

I own a Blackberry OS7 device (the Torch 9810) and I love it. Its stable. Reliable. Has all the apps I need. It pairs up with my Playbook and I can leave my laptop at home and be fully mobile. Does all this factual stuff matter? Barely.

I was in a bell store and saw a early 20′s lad there with his mother talking to the rep about how he wanted an iPhone not a Blackberry. The rep asked what he intends to do with his phone. Buddy responded “send text messages”.

Moments later – a young twenties femae with her daddy by her side – she was distraught as she dropped and broke her iphone. She’s been paying $7 per month insurance for her phone except that was on her Blackberry that she had broken months earlier. The rep advised her to claim the insurance and get a new blackberry and she was mortified. I wanted to tell her that she could easily get the new phone , sell it on ebay and use the funds towards an iPhone – but – unlike Garth, I don’t care to save the stupid.

Short story long: People hear “Blackberry” and they think loner. Odd man out. Yesterday’s news. Its all just a branding problem.

What did iPhone base its adds on? If you don’t have and iPhone, well, you don’t have an iPhone. Translation. No iPhone = loser.

If you don’t own your digs, you don’t own your digs. Translation = if you don’t own your house, you’re a loser.

#84 XKR on 06.29.12 at 12:00 am

I stopped in to see my parents earlier this evening. We started talking RE. They were telling me about a condo development not too far from their location where the starting price was reduced from 599K to 349K. Thats a whopper but the units were just not selling, only 20% sold over a year. I doubt the development will see the light of day.

#85 Motzu on 06.29.12 at 12:01 am

If a kettle catch on fire and melt, who’s fault is it ?

The electricity compagny which provided the heat source or the owner of the kettle who let it burn given he had the opportunity to remove it from the oven long before ?

I see a lot of people blaming the compagny on RE blogs.

But I think people are simply trying to crank up water temp to 200 C to see if will it boil “more”.

We reached 100 C long ago.

#86 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 12:05 am

#18 Tim on 06.28.12 at 9:43 pm

Sure, and they can come to Alberta, where 27000 good paying jobs go unfilled. Not surprised that you failed to mention this.

How many engineers y’all hiring for UI development with AJAX and similar technologies, client application development for Windows/Mac (Chrome, Toolbar, etc.) with Java, Javascript, or C/C++. Python and Linux scripting skills? Or do I just need a horse? — Garth
—-
Garth, wow, very technical, smart guy! I myself am an old fashioned software engineer only by necessity, definitely not by choice. My poison is the 1998 VC++6.0 with MFC. I code in C and C++. I really don’t know what I’m doing in Windows, but I get by eventually.

They won’t be needing any more geeky engineers in Alberta for much longer either, that whole mess is a total waste of money and time. In Austrian economic terms, the oil sands is a massive malinvestment. CHOKE!

#17 Toronto_CA on 06.28.12 at 9:40 pm
Same goes for the rest of Waterloo and Canada and North America as a whole. Wait till all the layoffs start int he other sectors too. Waterloo will turn to poo. Boo-hoo-hoo Cindy loo.

Enjoy the show. Schadenfreude, it’s the only joy anyone will find. Welcome to the greatest depression. The 30′s were nothing to what’s coming.

#87 Keith in Calgary on 06.29.12 at 12:05 am

It’s not only RIM…….the smartphone handset market is pretty much toast in general worldwide.

Sales in several European countries are down 8-10% annually, a catastrophic collapse by normal standards. The worldwide market is saturated with choices, and the existing number of subscribers has been stagnating for years.

Brasil, the world’s supposedly ripest handset market at this time is hurting big time and many companies are pulling out.

Telecom providers will soon no longer be able to give away free handsets (subsidized by those rip off plans you have to take to get the “free”….ahem….handset) in the face of class action multi-billion dollar lawsuits and the free market caniballizing their userous rates here in Canada.

RIM is only one of many for whom we will be holding a wake……..

#88 Smoking mans smarter coousin on 06.29.12 at 12:08 am

Great Photo..

Didn’t realize plastic could burn a stove…better get refund from Canadian Retread ASAP.

#89 Burnaby Renter on 06.29.12 at 12:17 am

Garth, I’ve been reading your blog for about a year now, and you have saved me a lot of money. Thank you.

I have also been reading Peter Schiff and listening to Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan, and they both make a pretty strong case for the American dollar collapsing sometime in the near future. What do you think? Is there some credence to what they say or are they just two right wingers making pitches before their presidential election?

#90 XKR on 06.29.12 at 12:18 am

#45 truth hammer said “…..RIM and Nokia died because of technical innovation..”

So true. Technical innovation happens like a critical mass formation that grows, matures then dies. The extremely short life cycle of tech means that with each one that dies, the creators, engineers et al. die with it to make way for a fresh crop.

#91 Boomer on 06.29.12 at 12:28 am

#49 Robomonkey: good luck with that, new hire and new housing debt! Hope that RIM honors your employment contract. It must be a bit scary to face an uncertain future with a company that was once a Canadian star. Good luck in the future.

#92 FTP - First Time Poster on 06.29.12 at 12:29 am

I remember good ole Dalton calling ON the economic engine of Canada a few years back. Almost choked on my breakfast laughing. Hows that workin out for ya Dalton?

#93 White Rock Mom on 06.29.12 at 12:31 am

BC’s unemployment went up 1% in May alone. Disappearing construction jobs are mostly responsible. It will be interesting to see how the unemployment rate changes. Save your pennies, rainy days are coming.

#94 Tim on 06.29.12 at 12:31 am

#50 Keeping the Faith
You’re in imbecile. You can’t even formulate a clear sentence. You probably voted for Stephen Harper.

#95 cramar on 06.29.12 at 12:33 am

#49 Robo Monkey on 06.28.12 at 10:49 pm

Also, RIM does have a few different developments in the works, so don’t give up on them yet.

———————-

I talked to a RIM manager a few weeks ago and he told me of the direction they are headed. Right move, but my fear is “too little too late!” Hope not, but it is what they should have done years ago and built on their strengths. Trying to take on Apple in the consumer field was shear folly. Even if RIM survives, it will be a smaller niche player. Nokia is just a maker of low-end phones to the third world.

#96 Aussie Roy on 06.29.12 at 12:37 am

Aussie Headlines

NZ Realtors complain about having to tell the truth.

Real estate agents are opposing changes to consumer laws that would require them to tell the truth about properties.

The Real Estate Institute of New Zealand is taking issue with changes that would make it illegal for agents to make unsubstantiated claims, saying the changes could open “floodgates of complaints”.

The proposed change does not require absolute truth, but it does require that when a representation is made to a consumer, the seller should have “reasonable grounds” for believing it is true.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/7160771/Estate-agents-fear-home-truths

NG must go.

Encouraging broad-based investment with policies such as negative gearing, which incites investors to enter into the established housing market rather than the “new home” market, do nothing to increase the supply and stimulate the many retail offshoots that benefit from construction.

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/tax/governments-must-stop-meddling-in-property-markets-%E2%80%93-and-negative-gearing-has-to-go-catherine-cashmore/2012062555257

It seems everyone is turning on the Melbourne housing market. Earlier this week, the Real Estate Institute of Victoria (REIV) capitulated, noting that Melbourne would see no house price growth in the short-term and, at best, only moderate price growth over the medium-term. The REIV’s analysis was joined by the generally bullish BIS Shrapnel, which forecast real price falls of -6% in Melbourne over the next three years

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/06/wakelin-has-a-eureka-moment-on-melbourne-property/

Lower rates fail to spur housing market

Sluggish new home sales show that the RBA’s aggressive rate cuts are yet to be felt in the sector, as analysts warn that house prices are still too high.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/rate-cuts-yet-to-spur-home-sales-20120628-213w6.html

Bank of Queenslands failed bonds sales

BANK of Queensland has abandoned plans to sell its $230 million portfolio of non-performing commercial property loans after offers failed to meet its price expectations.

The regional lender said in a stock exchange filing that the final bids submitted by two consortiums this month lacked “sufficient value” for the bank to proceed with the sale, originally seen as a quick way to offload some of its impaired assets.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/bank-of-queensland-abandons-230m-sell-off/story-fn9656lz-1226410522143

“In the end, superior investing is all about mistakes… being the person who profits from them, not the one who commits them.”

#97 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.29.12 at 12:37 am

-
“And beginning this weekend, there’ll be one helluva lot more motivated sellers.” — Be interesting to see whether people clue into the reality that Canada is already spinning out of control. There won’t be a hard landing; we’re nosediving straight into the sea, which is why things are happening quicker and quicker.

“. . . rising interest rates . . .” — When they head north (on Bernanke’s prodding), that’s when TROC heads south.

#39 truth hammer — “Nokia is in ruins . . .” — Good point. Sheeple are so focused on what’s happening in their neck of the woods, they don’t bother to look at the bigger picture.

Spain 1, Italy 3. Viva l’Italia!
*
Hyperinflation is a political choice, which may suit the EZone well, ‘tho not The Fourth Reich; Pubs Sheeple are so fickle; Thunderclouds in the US; Italy and Spain Not only do these two meet Sunday for the Euro 2012 final, they’re also going to block everything until they get their own way; Home Prices Largest fall in three years; UK Repos Hotspots; Love? We don’t need no stinkin’ love! Balancing in an unbalanced world.

Job Market with slow growth; China Signs, signs, everywhere there’s signs; Chart Of The Day; Cyprus “The tail that wagged the dog”; Greece People moving their money (if they have any); Audio clip Race for the world’s resources; Money Moron Edition Only for thickheads who can’t count; Euro War Infighting, but Blast off mode after talks and Euro retail sales; ObombaCare and Business; Coal vs. NGas Coal wins; Fiscal Meltdown? Could be one reason.
*
Message In A Bottle for our bosses, TPTB, and Apocalyptic Super Storm Guess we pissed off TPTB a bit too much! Russia and India Developing a hypersonic missile; German Teenagers SM is right. Education sucks big time; Fukushima ‘Quake today, as well as this; Lightning A similar effect can be had by a shot of brandy and port, then hitting the sack; KFC’s new Chicken Burger Does it have mounds of bacon with it? 10:18 clip I hereby secede (from this planet).

#98 Junius on 06.29.12 at 12:41 am

#38 John,

Sellers unite! Sounds like BPOE is working the Boards in Richmond.

#99 First to last on 06.29.12 at 12:42 am

DELETED

#100 a prairie dawg on 06.29.12 at 12:47 am

That’s OK folks. Keep listening to the nice lady at the bank. They care about you.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/dude-casual-sounding-bankers-emails-tell-chilling-story-233358666.html

#101 cramar on 06.29.12 at 12:48 am

“And beginning this weekend, there’ll be one helluva lot more motivated sellers.” – Garth

Actually, it is unknown when the axe will fall. Friday? Maybe over months? Anyway a RE agent in Windsor told me that when the 2008 problems hit that era in the auto sector and manufacturing, it was 6 months before the housing market reflected this. For the first few months, ex-employees are living off severance, and looking for alternate work to save their lifestyles. After 6 months or so, reality sets in and they have to unload the house.

#102 futureexpatriate on 06.29.12 at 12:52 am

RIMland… that anything like the mythical Vinland that the Norse kept seeking out and only found the ice wastes of Greenland?

Anyway, if RIM really wanted to pull a coup, they’d fill the hole Apple is leaving by abandoning their “flagship” Mac Pro. Let Apple make the kiddie walkie talkies with exorbitant monthly bills, and assemble real cutting edge desktop computers for the grownups like Boxx. Watch how fast Hollywood and the audio industry would flock.

#103 Junius on 06.29.12 at 12:57 am

Here is a good article about RIM. It is done. Sad.

http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/28/research-in-motion/

#104 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 1:03 am

#49 Robo Monkey on 06.28.12 at 10:49 pm

Good luck at the now job. I think I saw RIM’s ad for job you just got with the link to YouTube….. I would have applied but I’m already employed and one miracle per decade is my limit. I gotta live a little too ya know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

#105 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 1:16 am

Trust me when I say the oil sands are doomed to massive losses. The forty year boom is over, oil is going to collapse and stay low for decades while the greatest recession ever destroys and ravages our global economy. And why not leave some for the kids and plastics in the future. Burning it is primitive.

Conventional oil will feed the demand in Asia while electric drive vehicles around the world start smashing all Alberta’s oversized Tonka trucks to smithereens and buries them with the dinosaur fossils they were built to resurrect.

This is what’s going to happen and the whole mess is a massive mistake and waste of resources. Stick to natural gas Alberta, that’s the good stuff.

#106 Soylent Green is People on 06.29.12 at 1:26 am

Re harpers Feds terminating about 5000

Canada,s class war goes very nicely, now back to your t.v. And beer

.
.
.

#107 gtaguy on 06.29.12 at 1:26 am

#49 Robo Monkey

Is everyone on this blog american? Nice to see someone who still believes in rim. Although constantly bashed their playbook tablet rocks. Extremely nice device for the price regardless of all the criticism it is a great piece of hardware with a great os. BB10 devices look amazing.

#108 Bogdan on 06.29.12 at 1:37 am

too many calling for RIMM’s RIP. It may be the right time to invest in it.

#109 Scott in Gibsons on 06.29.12 at 2:14 am

US Supreme Court drives another nail into the US Consumer by taxing his wealth away to give to health care businesses.

#110 Buy? Curious? on 06.29.12 at 2:30 am

What’s left for us to believe in? What can we be proud of this weekend? Oh gawd, I’m so depressed! RIM dying, Banks are tanking all over the world, real estate is starting to circle the drain and to top it off, Celine Dion is being sued by her staff for not paying overtime. All have to look forward to is you, Garth and maybe catching Rob Ford trying to put on a small jacket after one of the city council meetings.

#111 Chris scott on 06.29.12 at 2:45 am

@westernman Tell me more of what exactly you think these “bullshit jobs” are about. Example of non-bullshit job?

#112 Djb on 06.29.12 at 2:46 am

Jim, RIM is not going to rebound, it is going to dead cat bounce.

#113 Derek R on 06.29.12 at 3:08 am

Like I said in the comments to Garth’s Hard Landing post a couple of days ago, Once the money being pumped into the economy by new mortgages and loans is less than the money being sucked out by repayments, there will be a lot less money floating around the economy. And less money means fewer purchases which means fewer jobs.

Flaherty’s clampdown on mortgage lending and HELOCs is only going to make unemployment worse. And soon. Real Soon. He had to do something. But that wasn’t it.

#114 Harlee on 06.29.12 at 3:25 am

If the Ontario government gets worried about job losses they can do the most logical thing – and reopen Quintland.

#115 Aaron - Melbourne on 06.29.12 at 3:29 am

http://theage.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/for-sale-sydneys-completely-uninhabitable-room-with-a-view–and-not-much-else-20120629-2170p.html

#116 Crash Callaway on 06.29.12 at 3:31 am

Hey what’s there to worry about.
BRIEX is going to rush in and save RIM’s bacon.
I heard the rumor in Canada’s most reliable news source
Timmies!

One thing I’ve noticed is that the moment the Corel’s, The Rim’s etc… start toying with buying sports teams it usually signals their demise.

#117 Crash Callaway on 06.29.12 at 3:36 am

#49 Robo Monkey

I start with RIM as an engineer next week (seriously). I also just bought a relatively high-end house in Cambridge (still serious, it was either a house or my wife would leave me). I may be one of the money stupid people, but I am good at my job and money seems to be generally attracted to me (unlike my wife).

Also, RIM does have a few different developments in the works, so don’t give up on them yet”

Robo Monkey… Are you sure you weren’t a waiter on the Titanic in a past life?

#118 jack_the_lad on 06.29.12 at 4:00 am

As an engineer, I was really hoping to return to Canada to get a Rim Job in Ontario.

Well, c’est la vie I guess. I suppose the people of Kitchener Waterloo must be pretty upset since they won’t be getting Rim Jobs anymore, either.

Garth, do you think the lack of Rim Jobs in Ontario is going to be the final nail in the coffin for the housing industry?

#119 Tony on 06.29.12 at 4:23 am

What goes around comes around. I’ll tell you it sure is good to see what happens when you steal someones’ idea like the good people at RIM did.
Rogers is a story unto itself. A company that should have put Bell Canada out of existence years ago but instead colluded with them and spend zilch absolutely nothing on their infrastructure resulting in people canceling their subscriptions. It’s sickening to say the least. The converse it true in America as more and more people convert from end of generation dsl to cable internet. I’ll say one thing about Ted Rogers he certainly wasn’t a visionary he only had visions of money and nothing else. If Ted’s kids ever wake up they’ll bury Bell Canada and that’s a guarantee.

#120 Tony on 06.29.12 at 4:29 am

Re: #41 TRT on 06.28.12 at 10:36 pm

No one will buy RIM as they don’t pose a threat to any of the competition now.

#121 I'm stupid on 06.29.12 at 4:36 am

Housing declines led unemployment increases in the US.

Lack of jobs made it worse, and kept prices falling. — Garth

Is that not like saying what came first the chicken or the egg?

#122 Dividend Yield Investor on 06.29.12 at 5:46 am

“Of course it wasn’t rising interest rates or falling banks which ultimately leveled US housing and kept it pinned for the past six years. It was unemployment,”

Bull Crap!

Over building is what did in U.S. housing prices! The mothers milk of lower prices is over supply. This created the crash portion of RE here in the States.

In this situation even if the U.S. did not go into recession RE still would have declined in price do to over building.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg, it is both. High oil prices pushed the economy and credit bubble over the cliff [and shot Canada's to the moon] precipating lower wages and unemployment plus overbuilding; that’s the formula for a RE CRASH!

Over supply is the biggest driver of lower prices here in the States on average. Any one can point to Detroit as an example of a city in ruin way before the RE crash, but not the entire U.S.

Get a handle on the amount over building in Canada and you will go a long way to asertain a bottoming price for RE. Tied together with a resonable assumption as to interest rates and incomes then you will have the complete package for a decent forecast.

Best Wishes,
Dividen Man [Sorry about the Bull Crap statement I was just a little bit fired up!]

#123 24yr old on 06.29.12 at 6:57 am

#39 “…and not 1 one Temporary Foreign Workers + International Students + Permanent Immigration + Refugees and their effect on RE prices in Vancouver and Toronto.”

As a former immigrant and now proud Canadian, it boggles my mind as to how there is so little discussion about the effect of who we bring in and how many. Depressing.

#124 Darlene on 06.29.12 at 7:01 am

For whoever might be interested in a different spin on Waterloo Region, give this a read.

http://bing.search.sympatico.ca/?q=kw%20record&mkt=en-ca&setLang=en-CA

It was put out before the RIM job losses. If you own a house here you better sell now or be in it for the long haul. This Region is very resourceful but it generally takes about 10 years to recover from this type of job loss.

Time will tell how big of an impact this will leave but it’s not quite time to lump us in with the likes of Windsor yet.

#125 The real Kip on 06.29.12 at 7:24 am

Earth to Jim Balsillie:

So Jim, how is that hockey franchise for Hamilton going? That good eh?

Jim Balsillie to Earth:

Shit happens!

#126 stickler on 06.29.12 at 7:29 am

#56 Not 1st on 06.28.12 at 10:58 pm

How many engineers y’all hiring for UI development with AJAX and similar technologies, client application development for Windows/Mac (Chrome, Toolbar, etc.) with Java, Javascript, or C/C++. Python and Linux scripting skills? Or do I just need a horse? — Garth

_____

Those jobs go outsourced to India for 10% of the wages we pay here. Resource extraction is our game here in Canada.

——
Sad, but true.

#127 pbrasseur on 06.29.12 at 7:35 am

@Dividend Yield Investor

“Get a handle on the amount over building in Canada and you will go a long way to asertain a bottoming price for RE.”

Easier said than done.

Containing over building means losing many thousands of jobs as this unsustainable industry is massively over grown. This is exactly what happened in the states, on the way up the bubble feeds on itself, but on the way down the opposit is true.

And once the jobs are lost good luck with keeping a floor under RE…

#128 Tier 1 Gold on 06.29.12 at 7:41 am

#80 Basil Fawlty

Is that a rhetorical question?

:)

#129 dd on 06.29.12 at 7:42 am

Alberta – balanced budget. And this at a time when most the governments the world over have bankrupted the country.

Pretty damn good.

#130 Steven Rowlandson on 06.29.12 at 7:46 am

There are no affordable houses in Canada with full employment and even if every man and woman were unemployed there would still be no affordable houses in Canada. It isn’t about the existance of jobs or interest rates it is about prices relative to one persons annual pay and that price to pay ratio is far beyond the equal to or less than 3 years pay for house prices and that includes the lot under it. When real estate prices fall by 90 to 95 percent and there is near full employment there is a chance that real estate will be affordable as long as the price does not exceed 3 times one income and that means any income. The satanic cult of real estate investment needs to be outlawed and burnt at the stake. Buying real estate should have no more importance or status as a purchase than buying blue jeans or a skill saw. Just another consummer good that you pay cash for with out any hope of making a capital gain on it. As a backstop mortgage lending and importing people to buy real estate should be out lawed in Canada just to be sure.

#131 rosie on 06.29.12 at 7:59 am

#98
Whoa Whoa here Garth. There are children on this blog today. Schools out. Let’s try to think about the kids.

My apologies. That slipped through the filter, and has been deleted. The poster’s IP has been logged and that disrespectful person will not enjoy posting privileges. — Garth

#132 betamax on 06.29.12 at 7:59 am

I was at a conference years ago and almost everyone there had a Blackberry. Went to the same conference last year, and almost no one had one — everyone switched to iPhone or something else. RIM’s dead.

#133 T.O. Bubble Boy on 06.29.12 at 8:23 am

More HAM stories in the MSM… How many articles about bidding wars for million dollar tear-down bungalows can the Globe and Mail run?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/willowdale-tear-down-goes-for-38000-over-asking/article4378713/

#134 T.O. Bubble Boy on 06.29.12 at 8:25 am

DELETED

#135 House Horny Housewife on 06.29.12 at 8:38 am

Garth,

These people are obviously out to lunch without a sandwich because RIM has been in trouble for quite some time now. I don’t follow the markets at all and even I know this.

Having both you and your spouse working at a company whose days are obviously numbered should not make you say, “Hey, let’s go out and buy a house !” .. I mean REALLY !

What they should be doing is looking for a way out and applying for jobs elsewhere, preferably at different companies so that all of their eggs are not in one sinking basket. If I was an engineer at RIM, I would have started to do that a heck of a long time ago for heaven’s sake.

Sometimes people just put THEMSELVES into difficult situations. I am not saying that these people are not unfortunate but shit happens, guaranteed. How you handle the shit that gets thrown at you in life is what matters. It can make or break you.

Granted that some people have the worst luck and some situations are insurmountable HOWEVER, that is not the case here. Not in my humble opinion.

HHHW

#136 Toronto_CA on 06.29.12 at 8:45 am

On Smartphones, I have the Bold 9900 (the newest Bold) fully paid for by work. For the hardware, the phone is solid and I am very happy with it. I’m a slim guy but my fingers are fat, when I use a touch keyboard on an iphone it’s frustrating as hell. I love the qwerty click keyboard on the Bold combined with the touch screen.

That said, the O/S is a huge piece of crap. It crashes a lot, it’s slow, and the apps are by and large terrible and nothing compared to the Apple or Android. My Facebook App requires I pull out the battery at least once a week and hard reset my phone to clear some error. How did this stuff pass user testing one wonders?

That said, for emailing (the only thing I should be using it for since it’s a work phone) I’d rather use this than an iPhone any day (I’ve used both extensively).

RIM needs to focus on being the best phone for professionals to use to communicate to one another in terms of speed/security/ease of use (not in that order). And everyone loves BBM, inexplicably.

Since my biggest beef with my Bold 9900 is the O/S, delaying the 10 system til 2013 is beyond ridiculous. By delaying it you are setting up expectations that this is the second coming of Christ, which by all accounts it isn’t.

Just my thoughts.

#137 timbo on 06.29.12 at 8:51 am

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/29/stockton-becomes-largest-us-city-in-history-to-declare-bankruptcy/

“SACRAMENTO, Calif. – Stockton has filed for Chapter 9 protection, making it the largest American city ever to declare bankruptcy. ”

There go the pension plans. Slowly but surely we are reverting back to the late 20′s.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/29/spain-eu-access-bailout-funds?newsfeed=true

“The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, said after the meetings broke up soon before dawn that she was “very satisfied that we took good decisions on growth”

Growth?

You just agreed that German future middle class earnings are to be used to pay governments to loan to banks who pay other banks to keep bondholders happy?

Bondholders then move money offshore to the Cayman Islands and demand wage concessions of the native population.The Bondholders cry that they must remain competitive with offshore interests. What is not said is that these interests are the same Bondholders who are taking advantage of lower taxes and cheaper labor to import back to get a greater profit.

Now the Bondholders will demand tax breaks for the Bondholders and blame the middle class as they dismantle social programs and cut services. This will drop tax revenue and curtail public spending.

The Bondholders will then tell the workforce to take on huge debt loads to retrain skills which will hamper growth even more due to depressed wages and high student loans. This will lead you back to the beginning to recycle over and over again until there is no money left for the middle class to spend.

1920′s -1930′s all over again and the German public fell for it. end of rant ;)

#138 Beach Bum on 06.29.12 at 8:51 am

RIM still has one thing going for them, penetration into the corporate data center (Blackberry Enterprise Server). My BB is connected to the corporate network giving me access to corporate resources from anywhere. I think RIM could survive if they focus on the enterprise, but they seem to be focusing on the angry birds crowd.

I’ve also noticed a culture problem when chatting with many RIMers, always talk of promotion and raises, never talk of the product. Contrast with, for example, Google employees. They are all about the product/company.

#139 disciple on 06.29.12 at 8:54 am

RIM was so 2006, I’m not sure why anyone thought they had a chance against Apple iOS… Our leaders have betrayed us again via lack of support for innovation, deficient educational standards, and crony bureaucracy, and we keep electing these fools, which makes us the fools. Check my blog for how they use actors in government.

#26 Inglorious Investor… Do you have tiger blood, too? At least change your moniker to match your arrogance…less confusing for us little people…

#28 blase… McD’s hasn’t provided free employee meals since the early 90′s…only a Gen-X’er would know that…guilty as charged…

#140 John on 06.29.12 at 9:00 am

Jack the lad wrote:

“As an engineer, I was really hoping to return to Canada to get a Rim Job in Ontario.

Well, c’est la vie I guess. I suppose the people of Kitchener Waterloo must be pretty upset since they won’t be getting Rim Jobs anymore, either.

Garth, do you think the lack of Rim Jobs in Ontario is going to be the final nail in the coffin for the housing industry?”

———-

So let me get this straight. An educated professional like Jack the lad not only doesn’t know that RIM jobs that came and RIM jobs that went are due to the world derivatives glucose Goldman Sachs et al banking cartel scam….not only that. It’s much much more than that, and way more serious.

He doesn’t WANT to know, won’t ask and would deny any discussion that went beyond what he already thinks he knows.

Oh and it doesn’t even stop there.

“How you do anything is how you do everything”. This guy would likely do the “neutered Canadian tango” and marry the girl well beneath his station that would have him. This “person” ( woman) is a target for the Goldman Sachs et al scheme. It may not be specifically “planned”, but she’s a target anyway.

For Jack, she’s “the wife”, and with “kids on the way” she “demands a nest” or “she’ll leave him”. Huh? He’s not really even in a relationship. So he becomes a property version and buys the funny money debt. He needs the RIM deal…is it coming? Is it going?

The guy doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going. And “the wife” sure can feel it. Thus the debt.

Sound over the top? Read the nutless Star, or watch Global. It’s HORRIBLE.

Maybe Jack’s single. But his culture marks out the Goldman trap for him. And he defends the trap. For all the world (literally) to see…and take advantage of.

Who gives a flying F. about your RIM work. The house has termites.

#141 disciple on 06.29.12 at 9:02 am

#82 wes coast… you’re wrong. It’s not a branding problem. The iPhone is a superior product. That’s a fact. You like to make the false distinction between young and old, but that is also incorrect. When presented with either an iPad or Playbook, my mom would choose the iPad any day of the week, there is no question. Sorry.

#142 Jim Lahey, Sunnyvale Trailer Park Supervisor on 06.29.12 at 9:07 am

#64 furst on 06.28.12 at 12:12 am

Another gem of a poem Furst! Randy has the honour of reading it tonight in the park. Keep ‘em coming. You are going to be given an honourary key to Sunnyvale when you come to the SASTGFBDCParty!

#143 disciple on 06.29.12 at 9:09 am

#89 Burnaby… Kindly allow me to assist you with your question. Peter Schiff is an outright fraud. Anyone listening to his fear-mongering is listening to Pee Wee Herman. (Check my blog for indisputable photographic evidence). The agenda is now clear, make everyone fearful, while milking the profits from fear. There will be no collapse in the real economy… the fake one that the bankers propagate, well, that’s another story… Anyone of these characters that you see on the internet that are claiming systemic collapse or spreading fear can reliably be put in the recycle bin… including Gerald Celente.

#144 Inglorious Investor on 06.29.12 at 9:17 am

#139 disciple on 06.29.12 at 8:54 am

“#26 Inglorious Investor… Do you have tiger blood, too?”

Lion’s not tiger’s. I’m a Leo.

Speaking of arrogance…

“RIM was so 2006, I’m not sure why anyone thought they had a chance against Apple iOS…”

What blood type are you?…

#145 timbo on 06.29.12 at 9:20 am

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/steve-jobs-destroys-another-rival-from-the-grave-2012-06-29?link=MW_story_popular

“You can officially add Research In Motion to the list of companies that Steve Jobs, the late Apple CEO, has dispatched from the technology marketplace. This time Jobs has done it posthumously.

With Apple wielding such power, I have to wonder which mobile phone rival might be next on that list, which also includes Nokia. ”

An apple a day keeps you trendy per se.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9364187/King-attacks-deceitful-banking-culture.html

““What I hope is that everyone now understands that something went very wrong with the UK banking industry and we now need to put it right,” he said. “From excessive levels of compensation, to shoddy treatment of customers, to deceitful manipulation of one of the most important interest rates. ”

Glass–Steagall rants are so old-school.

#146 brainsail on 06.29.12 at 9:25 am

“Why Windows Phone 8 means the BlackBerry is doomed”

“While Microsoft is clearly targeting Google and Apple as its primary competitors with the Windows 8 phone features announced today, the company that has the most to lose with Microsoft’s full entrance into the enterprise mobile business is Research in Motion. Now in fourth place behind Android, iOS, and Symbian in market share, and with Microsoft starting to catch up, RIM was laying off thousands of employees just as Microsoft announced the enterprise-readiness of its next phone OS. And regardless of how rapidly enterprises embrace Windows Phone 8, Microsoft’s other mobile moves could deliver a knockout blow to RIM’s dominance of the enterprise.”

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/why-windows-phone-8-means-the-blackberry-is-doomed/

#147 Beach Girl on 06.29.12 at 9:25 am

DELETED

#148 Engineer on 06.29.12 at 9:26 am

Two years ago I was looking for a job and went to a job fair in Mississauga. RIM was there with their poster type managers thinking they were the shit. Looking at other peoples resumes like they were worthless. It is good that they did not give me the chance to work for them. RIM is too late in the game to be against Apple and Android. Their archaic system is like typing with a typewriter vs a computer. Get with the times or get out.

#149 Dividend Yield Investor on 06.29.12 at 9:33 am

#127 pbrasseur on 06.29.12 at 7:35 am

I didn’t mean control the over building but to determine the amount OF over building! In that way you will have a better possibility of determining how low Canadian RE will go.

Due to the poor policies of easy access to loans a building mania has transpired with the Canadian economy top heavy of workers in all faucets of RE. When the private credit bubble bursts many of these folks will never work in this industry again. The dislocation of the unemployed will be gut retching.

#150 Gmaz on 06.29.12 at 9:34 am

I still don’t get it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/toronto-market-drives-home-prices-up-52-in-may-crea/article4362951/

#151 Buy? Curious? on 06.29.12 at 9:40 am

Garth, what do you have planned for the long weekend? Please tell me you’re going to relax and have the Amazons apply sunscreen to your back and TurrleWax to your Hummer.

#152 cramar on 06.29.12 at 9:46 am

There could yet be a silver lining to the slow death of RIM for the Waterloo Region. It just might eventually kill (I hope) the unnecessary $818,000,000 mega-LRT project that all forms of government are hotly intent on ramming down our throats in the K-W area. The way things work the final cost will probably end up at $1.2B or something! Even with the “official” figure, it will add hundreds of dollars to the average property tax bill for the next 30 years! Insane!

I heard that some pushing this through own land on or near the LRT corridor, planning to make a windfall on RE development.

One more reason to get out of Dodge!

#153 Dom on 06.29.12 at 9:46 am

The 5000 job cuts have nothing to do with the new BB10 or QNX as those 5000 jobs are from the old OS 07. BB10 is also has THE FASTEST html5 browsing speed crushing ios and android and windows 8 . http://friendfeed.com/bbuk/bec2321a/bb10-html5-browsing-speed-447-not-only-beats-all

For those who do not know that QNX is in many everyday important products like in powerplants and auto’s , space shuttle and the list goes on and on. RIM’s enemies are very afraid of RIM but that’s why they pay the media to smear RIM.

#154 Chris scott on 06.29.12 at 9:50 am

@ 56 not 1st “Those jobs go outsourced to India for 10% of the wages we pay here”

Not “all” and not 10%.

I make a good living working as a remote consultant for clients all over the world, from home with many of those techs Garth mentioned.

#155 Chris on 06.29.12 at 10:10 am

I know more than a few RIM engrs, all of whom are very competent. The company’s momentum/direction were destroyed by layers upon layers of useless “VPs” and “Proj Mgrs”: These paper-pushers bloated the organization in the last 4-5 years, and contributed nothing except maybe some Nortel mojo.

RIM is heart-breaking to watch.. A true Cdn hitech success story driven into the ditch by bloated and incompetent mgmt.

#156 Oilers Fan on 06.29.12 at 10:15 am

3 years ago I was hanging out with my teenage nieces, and I was asking them why they didn’t have iphones. I had just purchased mine at the time, loved it, and wondered why they didn’t want one.
They told me because iphone doesn’t have “BBM” (texting between fellow Blackberry users) and basically they wouldn’t fit in with their friends as well if they couldn’t BBM them.

About a couple years ago we were talking phones again and they were saying how they can’t receive pictures or videos on there Blackberrys that some of their friends send them.

Today they both have iphones and ipads. Blackberry’s no longer the “in” thing to have among teenagers.

This is the clearest sign and all I need to know that RIM is done. Apple has a stronghold on todays youth, and me.

#157 Ed from TO on 06.29.12 at 10:20 am

what the heck???
I try to access http://www.theskyisfalling.com and I get rediredted here.

#158 jimsum on 06.29.12 at 10:23 am

Layoffs at RIM won’t help the Waterloo economy, but layoffs are common in the Tech industry. Apple or Microsoft might set up a Waterloo office, Google or Intel might expand, or some small tech companies might get successful. A good fraction of RIM layoffs will find new local jobs, assuming the economy gets better.

The real risk with the Waterloo housing marking is all the student apartment buildings that are being built. There are cranes everywhere. It used to be you could become a student landlord and rent out a house near the University. Now with the newer and nicer student housing right next to the universities, SFH near the university (and RIM) will be a lot harder to sell.

RIM layoffs will take the blame for the local Waterloo housing meltdown; but the true reason will be speculation and overbuilding like everywhere else. It is not different here.

#159 truth hammer on 06.29.12 at 10:24 am

Radical Ent in Vanc is set to close……another nail in the coffin of Canada’s once vaunted ‘tech boom’.

http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/movie-guide/Vancouver+Radical+Entertainment+faces+layoffs+possible+closure/6857200/story.html

How many high paid jobs hace disappeared in the past two years from this sector in BC……..many many thousands.

Both RIM and NOK have speculated publicly in recent days that they will sell off the patent lockers and fold the tent…permanently.

RIM just became obselete……NOK could no longer compete. The final nail in the coffin for NOK was well said in the recent PC World article titled ‘ Microsoft screws Nokia’…..if you read that you will know the whole story.

The closing of Glenlyon campus in BBY BC saw the lay off of around 900 highly paid/skilled people…….many of who have already left Canada. The gutting of whole towns in Finland that had nothing but NOK as a base have seen a mass biblical exodus because there is nothing left to employ them. Tax free Estonia did see a surge in new business start ups and growth in head count of already established businesses……techies will know which ones these are.

Canada lost it’s industrial mojo when the Liberal gutted the sector with the ‘sustainable development ‘ model that Trudeau fell in love with after climbing into bed with the wacko PM of Norway……..the creator of the concept that brought us taxation of the west to devlop the east and pay for it all with the newly created boondoggle…climate change. Poli-sci 101 but I don’t expect many here to have studied this aspect of Canadian history. The gutting of industry by the libs was direct and purposeful.

We are left with nothing but resource and civic services…..some economy…..not.

I know the libs will cry foul at being outed on this….even call us right thinking CDN’s crazy because we disagree with them…too bad….the truth will out.

Based on the fragility of an economy where over 50% of the population draw wages from the taxpayers we really need to see radical structural changes in overhead before the ship hits the rocks.

Ask anyone who knows and they will tell you that the ballyhoo of immigration recharging the economy is BS…..we import the needy who cost the economy billions while at the same time highly skilled CDN’s are leaving in droves.

Qualified immigrants leave as soon as they recieve their passports….leaving the burden of the family for taxpayers to bear……sad but true. If the entire top heavy system of cost over profit isn’t rebalanced we all go down a la Greece etc…..sooner than you think.

#160 KD on 06.29.12 at 10:25 am

A friend of mine joined RIM Waterloo 4-5 years ago. As he sat in a selling agent’s office to deliver his bid on a home, another man (a fellow RIM employee) walked in and said, “I’ll pay 50K more than asking.” End of story. This was apparently not a rare occurance, either.. Certain desirable neighbourhoods (if such a thing can be said to exist in that grungy town) were overrun by cash-rich RIM employees.

Can’t imagine those prices sustaining even a general economic malaise.. let alone a RIM meltdown!

#161 Basil Fawlty on 06.29.12 at 10:27 am

# 143 “Anyone of these characters that you see on the internet that are claiming systemic collapse or spreading fear can reliably be put in the recycle bin… including Gerald Celente.”
Tell that to the Stockton CA pensioners. Better yet, hop on a plane and explain your reasoning to the former middle class Greeks searching for food in dumpsters.
Celente’s record as a trends forecaster is as good as Garth’s call on Canadian real estate. Ignore him at your peril.

#162 Herb on 06.29.12 at 10:35 am

Writing on the wall in Ottawa real estate …

There is an ugly triplex down our street that was listed last year for $1 M. It has just been relisted for $700 K.

#163 bridgepidgeon on 06.29.12 at 10:47 am

KW area has been boom city. New housing like mad still going on. Traditional manufacturing gone, companies like Lear restructuring with new starting wages of 14 bucks. Condos replace all the old factories now. Lots of inventory out there, over $500,000 sits, under three sees movement. Fortunately K and W cities have money, unlike TO. Expansion forcing some Mennonite farmers to move north, away from subdivisions fronting their fields. Worth a drive, to see the old fashioned use of agricultural land, vs. today’s progress. I’m here, for now, after 20 years in TO. I go into about 6 homes a day for my job. I’m seeing some pain, recent buyers are strapped for cash, doing a killer comute for work, madness. Myself, a financial loser by Garth’s standards, has found contentment for now. We live in a friendly community, on a pond where children chase frogs, in a forest where deer and wildlife roam, neighbours to sit and talk with, campfires to play music by. My temporary abode is on wheels and the freedom is addicting. Happy Canada day…

#164 Not 1st on 06.29.12 at 10:50 am

People need to realize that the only secure job is in resources and commodities, because we have them and others don’t. Manufacturing and tech and secondary services can be relocated in mere days to India or China and eventually always are. But potash or oil or gas or steel cannot. Also primary trades cannot be farmed out either.

Also, the reason RIM is in trouble is simple…their product are for suits, CEOs, lawyers and traders. They have a corporate flavor to them, not a coolness factor like iPhone does. So that coveted demographic 18-40 won’t buy them. The solution is so simple.

#165 Jack on 06.29.12 at 10:53 am

Those jobs go outsourced to India for 10% of the wages we pay here. Resource extraction is our game here in Canada.

______________

This kind of comment obviously comes from people who do not know how the software development industry operates. Do you know the starting salary for junior programmers at Microsoft still starts at $100K today ? And that every year a group of UWaterloo students are still being hired ? The jobs which got outsourced are the low end ones….. ones that do not require creativity or imagination…. If you are smart tech person there are plenty of jobs for you in California (thanks to NAFTA), if you can’t find one in Ontario.

#166 getreal-tor on 06.29.12 at 11:16 am

#153 Dom on 06.29.12 at 9:46 am

For those who do not know that QNX is in many everyday important products like in powerplants and auto’s , space shuttle and the list goes on and on. RIM’s enemies are very afraid of RIM but that’s why they pay the media to smear RIM.

Dom — Having the fastest browsers in the world means nothing if it is confined to your test lab… And last time I checked the majority of people didn’t buy phones based solely based on browser performance.

RIM bought QNX and TAT in 2010… 2yrs later they are still struggling to release a winning product. No doubt RIM has still a few great engineers but clearly management has no clue or resources on how to make it all work again. Their greatest weakness was management’s arrogance in believing that nobody could displace them from their throne.

#167 brainsail on 06.29.12 at 11:21 am

“RIM Shoots Self in Foot, Then Puts Foot In Mouth”

“I think it still has value to a company such as Facebook(FB_), which has been rumored to be considering developing a phone of its own.”

“However, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for Microsoft to come in and close the deal.”

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11602127/1/rim-shoots-self-in-foot-then-puts-foot-in-mouth.html?puc=CNNMONEY&cm_ven=CNNMONEY

#168 VicBC on 06.29.12 at 11:22 am

#105 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables

What are you smoking?

#169 Nemesis on 06.29.12 at 11:30 am

This doesn’t happen very often in the MapleSyrupRepublic… and in view of the justifiable ‘focus’ on RIM’s pending demise will likely not attract a great deal of attention… accordingly…

[BloomBerg] – MDA Has Record Increase After Buying Loral Satellite Unit

http://tinyurl.com/7b3ftbz

[MDA's 'basement' origins on West4th/YVR can be traced directly to Trudeau era federal regional economic development grants/VC]

#170 Observor on 06.29.12 at 11:41 am

DOOM or BOOM?

Hey doomers, how ’bout ‘dem markets?

I am up about 15% this year. Today I am selling just a little here and there. You know, bought low, selling higher.

I’ve got about two houses worth of money in the markets. No leverage (to speak of) just like my house which has no debt.

Best of all I own evil things like Walmart and big U.S. banks. Enough to make a doomer puke. Also the less evil Canadian Tire.

Now doomers, get on over to Walmart and Canadian Tire and buy some guns and ammo and a back-up generator and tinned foods. I can use the sales.

#171 disciple on 06.29.12 at 11:44 am

#136 Toronto_CA… But you disprove your own point. The OS crashes and the apps are lacking…well what else is the device useful for if not those aspects? The only thing wrong with the iPhone is the keyboard? Virtual keyboards are the future, it’s like comparing digital with analog. And my final point being that employees/companies don’t want to invest in Blackberry devices because the line between work and personal use is blurry at best and for most independent contractors such as myself, why would I want to maintain two devices? I want the best device for both my personal and professional needs and guess what, the RIM offerings ain’t it. That simple.

#172 cramar on 06.29.12 at 11:47 am

#160 KD on 06.29.12 at 10:25 am

Certain desirable neighbourhoods (if such a thing can be said to exist in that grungy town) were overrun by cash-rich RIM employees.

————

THAT I take exception too! The City of Waterloo has NO grungy areas that I know of. Kitchener has older ‘hoods, but FAR better than what I’ve seen in the older areas of the 416. Better than a lot of other Ontario cities I’ve been through like Hamilton.

#173 disciple on 06.29.12 at 11:49 am

#153 Dom… Those are the same old tired arguments. Does it matter how many more milliseconds faster the BB10 is? Without apps, who cares? And QNX is in a few industrial hubs; again, how does that translate into jobs, sales, and innovation? Grasping at straws. RIM was finished a long time ago…

#174 cramar on 06.29.12 at 11:50 am

Months ago we were in Drayton for the theatre. There is not even a Tim Hortons anywhere near there! Can you believe it. There is nothing there except the cool theatre. Noticed a new division on the banks of the river with really big impressive houses, with great views. Asked a local who the heck owns those? People commuting to Waterloo, was the reply. Who else but RIM, I thought. This morning I told my wife, that if any of those owners lost their jobs and have to sell, who is going to buy a McMansion in Drayton?

#175 disciple on 06.29.12 at 11:53 am

#161 Basil… Celente is moonlighting as Avatar Adi Da. He is an actor playing characters, playing YOU. The reason he forecasts trends is because his employers are the ones engineering them! You’s been had. Ignore my blog at your own peril…

#176 John on 06.29.12 at 11:56 am

Disciple wrote:

“The agenda is now clear, make everyone fearful, while milking the profits from fear. There will be no collapse in the real economy… the fake one that the bankers propagate, well, that’s another story… Anyone of these characters that you see on the internet that are claiming systemic collapse or spreading fear can reliably be put in the recycle bin… including Gerald Celente.”
———-

Yeah…it’s true. The collapse of a fake system is not a big deal. What is your vision of the real economy, participation in it, and the kinds of value moving around…for whom. Are you a weapons contractor or do you see your community benefiting from that industry? Would the real economy also be included in your “doomer convenience bin”? Do you believe the middle class “net worth” is part of the fake economy?

You’re making an interesting point. I’d add loonies like Alex Jones to the mix ( dangerous people), and keep going.

The “acid test” to your argument will be if you continue to include middle class “net worth” in the real economy. Last time I checked it sure looked like the middle class “portfolio” was part of Gerald Celente’s world.

Maybe you have another angle. I can’t imagine what it would be. You didn’t mention what this “real economy” was.

As far as “profiting from fear-mongering”, it sure looks that way. Celente is pure propoganda. But forget him…what about the raw info without him? Could you build your idea? It seems only half cooked.

#177 Fred on 06.29.12 at 12:04 pm

Garth…you should email Jim and Sheila and slam them for being smug arrogant canadians who should have never EVER bet against the mighty awesome US of A.

Also tell them that being liberals is like admitting you have cancer and that they should convert to the conservative party pronto.

Also, if you haven’t already thought about it, you should slam all canadians for being idiots with no jobs who should have never bet against america.

#178 JohnC on 06.29.12 at 12:13 pm

@DOM #153

That ‘old’ OS is what made RIM the company what it was for the past 20 years. Nice to see that you are quick to dismiss those 5000 people.

The QNX OS was touted as being the ‘next big thing’ yet Playbook flopped and the new QNX based BB10 phones are delayed… again. Maybe the problem is the ‘new’ BB10 OS and QNX, not the ‘old’ BB7 OS.

RIM management bet on QNX, and lost, one of many bad choices. QNX should stick to space shuttles and autos since creating a phone with email has proven to be too difficult.

#179 Toronto_CA on 06.29.12 at 12:15 pm

You’re probably right Disciple#171, I just really like the physical phone itself. It feels more comfortable to me to type on and hold/carry than any iPhone I’ve ever had. But I agree, they are terrible for personal use in terms of O/S and apps. And a perfect phone would be both great for professional and personal use so you don’t need too.

But yes, my kingdom for a physical keyboard. I hate touch screen keyboards. Maybe one day they will invent one that works for me, but so far my fat fingers don’t work with them.

#180 John on 06.29.12 at 12:17 pm

Ed from T.O. is on the ropes and confused…so he writes this:

“what the heck???
I try to access http://www.theskyisfalling.com and I get rediredted here.”

Fail.

#181 Aussie Roy on 06.29.12 at 12:40 pm

Aussie Headlines

SPECIAL – Destroying some common RE myths.

We have all seen the math challenged make comments like.

“You Gen Y’s should suck it up, stop wasting your money and buy a home, we boomers paid >12%”.

Clearly these people don’t have enough fingers and toes to do a simple calculation, so here it is.

Although this argument holds water on a serviceability level, if we look at the effects that a doubling price and halving interest rates have on a mortgage holder over the term of their loan it’s a real eye opener (use this mortgage calculator to run your own scenario):

$300,000 borrowed @ 6%
Repayments of $2000 per month
23 years, 2 months to payoff loan
Total repayments = $555,903

$150,000 borrowed @ 12%
Repayments of $2000 per month
11 years, 7 months to payoff
Total repayments = $278,643

The initial interest costs on a $300k loan at 6% is the same as a $150k loan at 12%, however the smaller loan is repaid at a much faster rate if the borrower has the capacity to repay either loan at the same rate.

http://www.bullionbaron.com/2012/06/does-australia-have-housing.html

Falling rates support the housing market, Really?.

1. The proportion of mortgage holders a month or more behind in their mortgage repayments rose only marginally in the first quarter of the year, according to ratings agency Fitch, which says falling interest rates prevented a greater rise.

In its latest Dinkum Index for the first quarter of 2012 Fitch records that mortgage delinquencies rose from 1.57% in the December 2011 quarter to 1.6% in the first quarter of 2012 – equating to about $35 million loans turning bad.

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/news/mortgage-delinquencies-rise-marginally-in-first-quarter-but-rate-cut-forestalled-higher-rise-fitch/2012062855334

2. INTEREST rate cuts are having a much weaker effect on home-loan borrowing than they used to, bank executives warn.
The Reserve Bank’s cuts of 75 basis points in the past two months have prompted only a small rise in lending because consumer confidence is down, Commonwealth Bank and Adelaide Bank mortgage executives Kathy Cummings and Damian Percy told a forum in Adelaide yesterday.

http://www.news.com.au/money/interest-rates/mortgage-rate-cuts-not-moving-borrowers/story-e6frfmn0-1226409761997

It’s also important to note prices are still falling.

But, but we are different here, we have a shortage everyone wants to move here.

Housing shortage all smoke and mirrors

The so-called housing shortage, which has been used by the property industry as an excuse for Australia’s overpriced housing, has been exposed by the 2011 Census figures.

The Census revealed that the number of households in Australia is some 1 million less than assumed by the National Housing Supply Council (NHSC) in its estimates of Australia’s housing shortage.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/housing-shortage-all-smoke-and-mirrors-20120622-20szh.html

What about the one, “but we have a strong love affair with RE”, yes its true Australias home ownership sits at over 78%. We have all the traditional lovers of RE, Italians, Indians, Asians and lets not forget the Aussies.

So did any of this stop prices falling, of course not.

What caused prices to fall, simple they were too expensive. Unsustainable house prices are driven by emotion and debt, sustainable house prices are driven by wages.

#182 Silver on 06.29.12 at 1:02 pm

As a small buisness owner…
…every $500.00 increase in my property tax’s (1 building sale in my category) translates into 1 person being given $1200.00 dollars less work.

That’s what it takes for me to replace that money lost to the property tax increases…
… this year that means $14,000.00 worth of wages that won’t be paid to someone… because i need to make that much more. over the last 5 years… over $100 g+…

every small employer I have talked to in Vancouver
Commercial and Venables area has reduced staff hours over this… the mood over all the new tax hikes is not pleasant… lots of tar and feathers talk
.. just don’t know if it should be steel rails or concrete ties they should be run out on though…
I’m really serious about this… these are real conversations…
… this is nice compared to what some small b. owners want to do… to the public servants…

I didn’t realize the anger till I asked… wow did I get some rants…
I know more than a few who are feed up and are exploring the costs of closing shop and selling their property. That’s a good 20 local jobs waiting to go away…($50 to 100 g)+yr.

… these are all small high end development and manufacturing jobs. Skilled labor…. not kids off he street.
Not one of these has any intention of setting up a small business here again.

… oh and even a 40% return on payroll wages doesn’t seem to be drawing the hollywood types here to shoot movies in vancouver.
… used to be some 10,000 people working for that industry… lots of expensive homes waiting here guys…

… and then there are all the suppliers for that business waiting as well…

..and the fat tax stream gets clobbered …

time to let all the tax stream welfare bums pay their own way…
… lets see how long the financial sector, the public service, and the housing market will last… without any manufacturing support.
Lots of public tax support if you are a multinational shop here though…

Silver

#183 eagle eyes on 06.29.12 at 1:09 pm

Richmond BC is officially toast.

#184 Jim on 06.29.12 at 1:15 pm

It is interesting to see how people make plans and base projections on the growth of these large companies like RIM. I recall being surprised to find a very large, pricey urban furniture store in downtown kitchener. The owner mentioned that she thought the market was going to be strong far into the future, on account of RIM. She didn’t like it when I mentioned that betting on the success of one company is not robust as a strategy, particularly in light of Nortel and other spectacular collapses.

When companies ramp up swiftly, it should serve as a red flag that they are overexpanding and failing to focus on their key strengths.

#185 Cowardice on 06.29.12 at 1:16 pm

#176 John

“I’d add loonies like Alex Jones to the mix (dangerous people), and keep going.”

Dangerous?

Dude, Alex Jones has three little kids. A beautiful wife. A house. His father is a retired dentist. He went to college. He is successful.

Oh no!!! Another dangerous, independent American!!!

#186 Sathington Willoby on 06.29.12 at 1:17 pm

Maybe the RE bubble is going to finally burst, after years of naysayers predicting so, who knows?

Living in Alberta, we’ll see it happening all around us before is actually hits this province, if at all…just my guess. However, I will be watching carefully!

#187 analysis please on 06.29.12 at 1:21 pm

Sure, the layoffs won’t help, but really, how ‘bad’ is it? I don’t know, but let’s make up our own numbers
5000 layoffs
2500 local

say, 25% are all junior, no houses
that leaves 1800
how many live there, as oppose to commute from all over GTA, let’s use half, leaving
900

Of those, how many are the predominant breadwinner? let’s say 66%, leaving
600

Of those, how many just has to sell, let’s say half (i.e. RIM has smart people, they’ll find jobs in the ‘area’)
300

Therefore, if we have 300 extra houses in Waterloo, is that alone the defining moment for a crash?

#188 KD on 06.29.12 at 1:21 pm

#172 Cramar
Apologies, no offense to Waterloo (or Kitchener, for that matter) Got ahead of myself calling them “grungy”. Agreed, parts of Hamilton & GTA are much worse.

But I did go to Univ of Waterloo for 4 years.. So I can’t reconcile the prices I hear today with the KW town that I know. The same can be said for many places I guess.

#189 John on 06.29.12 at 1:21 pm

Observer is also on the ropes and out of options. For those who want to ignore trends and reality, and to run and hide out…look who your company is. A follower with no critical thinking skills. No plan. No integration to reality of any kind. No perspective and anti-social.

Have a re-read. This blog has depth now. The followers and non-thinkers revealed. You can see what’s up.

This is the deal…and this guy is actually serious:

———-
DOOM or BOOM?

Hey doomers, how ’bout ‘dem markets?

I am up about 15% this year. Today I am selling just a little here and there. You know, bought low, selling higher.

I’ve got about two houses worth of money in the markets. No leverage (to speak of) just like my house which has no debt.

Best of all I own evil things like Walmart and big U.S. banks. Enough to make a doomer puke. Also the less evil Canadian Tire.

Now doomers, get on over to Walmart and Canadian Tire and buy some guns and ammo and a back-up generator and tinned foods. I can use the sales.

#190 jess on 06.29.12 at 1:25 pm

#49 Robo Monkey
Are you referring to point of sale system?

#191 jess on 06.29.12 at 1:34 pm

my son was given a blackberry for work (company paid)
until cutbacks. Decided to leave it at home.

…if one removed the subsidies that keep apple floating what would be the real price?

#192 Jim on 06.29.12 at 1:35 pm

“For those who do not know that QNX is in many everyday important products like in powerplants and auto’s , space shuttle and the list goes on and on. RIM’s enemies are very afraid of RIM but that’s why they pay the media to smear RIM.”

—————

So let me get this straight. RIM bought an operating system. It has spent years trying to get this operating system up and running on a phone platform that will be competitive in the market.

Call me underwhelmed. Microsoft could have written a new operating system from scratch in that amount of time. Apple put a fancy front end on BSD in less time. RIM has nothing to show for its efforts. I’m told that RIM has talented engineers, so I can only assume that some other issue has slowed development down to this snail’s pace.

I hate to say it, but it appears that RIM was far more competent and innovative when it was a small startup.

#193 Management Failed Again on 06.29.12 at 1:35 pm

As we can see now with RIM: Management Failed Again. It is always the management and their decisions that makes a company fail. If we get rid of bad managers life would be so much better. It was Nortel, now RIM, next who knows Magna. These companies had bad managers that thought about their pockets and bonuses first and not the good of the company. Short term thinking will make them file for chapter 9. If you do not listen to your consumers and your employees, you as a company might as well fold.

In Canada people say how can I get a job with the Gov, in US people say how do I start my own company. Wake up Canada or we might as well become a communist country relying on tax payer money piggybacks.

#194 Peter Goesinya on 06.29.12 at 1:42 pm

@ #69 Fort Mac Flatlander

All construction jobs. Which means thousands of rental vacancies.

Can’t wait till I’m outta that shithole!

#195 John on 06.29.12 at 1:44 pm

Cowardice wrote:

Cowardice wrote:

#176 John

“I’d add loonies like Alex Jones to the mix (dangerous people), and keep going.”

Dangerous?

Dude, Alex Jones has three little kids. A beautiful wife. A house. His father is a retired dentist. He went to college. He is successful.

Oh no!!! Another dangerous, independent American!!!”
———

Look. I know what you mean, but I have heard absolutely everything Alex has to say. Everything. He wants to incite people and create enemies, not cooperation. He has issues man. The guy wants a big bad wolf to defeat. Guess what. Everyone loses. Yes, expose scams and eroding rights ( I know all the info). NO to the inflammation of public opinion, polarization with simplistic “God Bless America” attitude. The constitution is super important, but I’d prefer a banker to a gun-totin’ Christian with “rights”. He’d blast buckshot through the constitution if he could.

He’s a really dangerous man. The better way? Political process and time. Some lurches and swerves….but not his way. His resume might be “upstandin’”, but I think the guy is majorly imbalanced mentally-emotionally.

Nonetheless, he has unearthed important info amidst much hyperbole.

#196 Dupcheck on 06.29.12 at 1:47 pm

#187,

You have left out a lot of other factors such as:

1. Other spin-off jobs that might be lost because of those layoffs. (How many, I don’t know you make the math since you are good at it)

2. Taxes the municipality collects will now be less, therefore a potential for the city to layoff people.

3. Already a cooling off housing market mixed with un-employement news.

4. Less students enrolling to U Waterloo just because the main employer could be gone (no more co-op). Less students less money to local business, less jobs, less taxes, less rent and on and on again.

5. With gas prices so high, who wants to drive to GTA for a job, therefore potential people moving away.

All of the above and probably more that I cant think off could affect the housing market more than we think. I hope it goes ok.

#197 RIMland:From Garth Turners ” Greater Fool Blog” | on 06.29.12 at 1:50 pm

[...] But this is not about RIM, K-W or Jim and Sheila. It’s about jobs. [...]

#198 Toronto mine sweeper on 06.29.12 at 2:01 pm

Ontario will have much more unemployment in the next little while.
Soon as the remainder of condos that are in the prosses of being built are finnished, construction jobs/tradesmen
will be seeing layoffs.
The condo boom has supplied good unemployment numbers since it went into full swing.
I know of a big developer that has nice plots of land in the city and won’t be sticking a shovel in the ground anytime soon because they see the trouble ahead.
Pan am games will supply some jobs but once that is over ( 2014/15), I don’t see anything els to support all those construction jobs.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of unemployment that would translate to???

#199 TO #170: YEAH RIGHT!!!! on 06.29.12 at 2:03 pm

Yeah, right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are real genius! Why then browsing websites like this one instead of doing something sensible?

#200 jess on 06.29.12 at 2:14 pm

inventory dumping?

Amazon Selling the Nokia Lumia 900 For $39.99

my son’s company cutback was he had to pay for his bberry. he no longer answers it when he gets home.

#201 Crash Callaway on 06.29.12 at 2:32 pm

Funny to see the KW Polyanna’s
Rolling up the RIM to win.

It’s over… time to book the Uhaul

#202 Crash Callaway on 06.29.12 at 2:39 pm

Damn, There I was standing in the Uhaul office just about to sign the contract on a 20 footer,
When this ex RIM employee walks in and offers the Uhaul guy $1000 over what I was paying to get my almost booked truck.

Let the bidding wars begin!
Be the first to slither out of town before the Nanny realizes she ain’t getting paid.

#203 Can it be? on 06.29.12 at 2:39 pm

@gmaz… You don’t get it and you never will. Why are you here?

#204 stickler on 06.29.12 at 2:40 pm

@ #154 Chris scott on 06.29.12 at 9:50 am

@ 56 not 1st “Those jobs go outsourced to India for 10% of the wages we pay here”

Not “all” and not 10%.

I make a good living working as a remote consultant for clients all over the world, from home with many of those techs Garth mentioned.

——-
Of course not 100% of all IT workers are outsourced to India and paid 10%…sheesh.

BUT the trend is clearly outsourcing & off shoring as much as possible to lower cost centers like India.

The banks do it, the telecoms do it, the life cos do it…even birds and bees do it.

You are in the industry & you know this…take it seriously. Watch the trend continue with accounting and legal work too.

#205 daystar on 06.29.12 at 2:42 pm

#159 truth hammer on 06.29.12 at 10:24 am

Lol, obsessive and excessively cheap to the point of miserly aren’t balanced traits, TH. What, did you think you could go on and on bashing public servants and their payrolls in every single comment for months, perhaps years on end and not get called on it? That kind of behavior isn’t healthy, man. Don’t you know this?

http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson6.php

Dude, you’ve got all the classic traits of OCPD.

- Ower of truth (I am right, you are wrong kind of stuff, very rigid, inflexible. OCPD’s combine this with their own sense of perfectionism and rarely deviate)
- Ritual (socialist bashing, constant attacks on civil servants, their mere existence should be wiped out according to you… daily. You aren’t just attacking political parties, you are attacking entire systems of government and for you, this is a ritual, 2 to 3 times a day)
- Miserly (you speak of tax dollars as though they were all your own and you are beyond cheap)
- Authoritarian (clashes with authority, tries to boss or be boss)
- Anal character, rigid, miserly (not generous), controlling, feel driven to control, perfectionist with standards above the rest.

I can go on here, but OCPD’s are fairly well defined in this link. I can’t speak for your interpersonal relationships, but a read in the link above should describe you. OCPD’s are not known to be warm, fuzzy or friendly. Their compulsion to control gets in the way and thats unfortunate because these individuals need love and friendships like anyone else. This is partly why they are at such a high risk of depression. They have a tendacy to drive away social people that need to be there at a time when certain “windows” of self introspection leave them exploring what drives their self esteem sometimes just for that moment where they might actually realize that they have been masking a lower self esteem with all these other traits so I’m just going to level with you TH. You don’t need to be perfect to have value or to be loved.

OK?

I’m sorry bud but I don’t throw around stuff like this lightly. I don’t use tactics like that to win a debate, its quite frankly not needed or necessary with you. Quite simply, when things get “disorderly”, they need to be addressed (I’m not re-inventing the wheel here) and the best way is for you to become aware and deal with it on your own. I don’t profile blindly… ok?

And getting back on topic, Nokia and RIM didn’t just sail away on their own, they had help. Apple and Samsung (I’m more partial to Samsung, actually) have led the way with market share in iphones.

Inglorious Investor’s #26 thoughtfully articulates RIM’s demise from from a managerial perspective from what I can tell. RIM took on high risk when they moved away from the security in niche markets (encrypted email) and went mainstream against far tougher competition than they expected. I think there was a good deal of pressure or expectation placed on them from financials (or by management themselves) to go to the next level. They simply got swamped by smartphone competition (Apple, Samsung) and this left them exposed trying to outcheap the markets that were left.

I’m tempted to profile their stock and share what I learn here if I see something interesting.

#206 GTA Anon on 06.29.12 at 2:47 pm

They had it coming!

I know some people who left RIM just recently. RIM got to big and too cocky for its own good. Management at RIM was extremely incompetent and inovative people were punished or side stepped. People often spoke of the horror with layers and layers of cronism and simply indifferent people at high paying position milking the BB brand all the way to destruction of what was once a great company.

It is always managements fault and I say they had it coming.

#207 Q on 06.29.12 at 2:48 pm

So….RIM loses money and they dump one third of their employees….well, the Canadian government lose more monthly on wasted office supplies…so let’s dump maybe half of the federal uncivil service and the entire Senate. It would save us a fortune and would anyone actually notice?

#208 stickler on 06.29.12 at 2:48 pm

@ #165 Jack on 06.29.12 at 10:53 am

Those jobs go outsourced to India for 10% of the wages we pay here. Resource extraction is our game here in Canada.

______________

This kind of comment obviously comes from people who do not know how the software development industry operates. Do you know the starting salary for junior programmers at Microsoft still starts at $100K today ? And that every year a group of UWaterloo students are still being hired ? The jobs which got outsourced are the low end ones….. ones that do not require creativity or imagination…. If you are smart tech person there are plenty of jobs for you in California (thanks to NAFTA), if you can’t find one in Ontario.


Jack there are many many shops in India (and other developing countries too) that do IT development…it started out as you describe…but it not like that any more. Of course there are high paid IT jobs in North America, but the trend is not your friend.

#209 Observor on 06.29.12 at 3:14 pm

To number 199, yeah Right

You reponded to my post at 170. Syaing, Yeah Right.

Here are some instructions on how to respond to a post.

Give both the number and name of who you are responding to.

Then paste in a few sentences of the text you are responding to.

In my post at 170 I claimed to have a large investment portfolio and to be up 15% this year. Both are true.

I troll here for entertainment especially by baiting doomers with true facts that they can’t stand.

Also I attempt to provide a bit of education.

To succeed, follow in the footsteps of winners not losers and whiners.

#210 daystar on 06.29.12 at 3:15 pm

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/business-news/flaherty-says-action-on-mortgages-necessary-2

I see F is still denying the existence of a housing bubble. (lol, I wonder how he defines them) I suppose thats his best defence. Deny, deny, deny.

#211 daystar on 06.29.12 at 3:25 pm

#207 Q on 06.29.12 at 2:48 pm

Postal workers, nurses, cops, judges, politicians, penal guards, border cops, EI revenue and pension accountants, coast guards, military, food drug & water QC etc., oh no. We would never miss that! Thanks for the humor, its good to laugh :)

#212 Tanya on 06.29.12 at 3:26 pm

#187, analysis please:

You said an influx of 300 new homes in Waterloo won’t incite a crash.

There are currently ~400 homes on the market within 10 km of RIM. Another 300 would be a huge burden.

#213 Dave on 06.29.12 at 3:53 pm

Here is something to listen to while we all wait for a long over due correction
Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiC__IjCa2s

100riffs.com

Alex Chadwick plays 100 famous guitar riffs in one take
giving you a chronological history of rock n’ roll.

.

#214 Gmaz on 06.29.12 at 3:57 pm

#203 can it be?

I’ve already admitted that I don’t get it. As for why i’m still here, I was hoping you’d explain it a little better to me. Just try to educate this ” fool”.

#215 cramar on 06.29.12 at 3:58 pm

#196 Dupcheck on 06.29.12 at 1:47 pm

4. Less students enrolling to U Waterloo just because the main employer could be gone (no more co-op). Less students less money to local business, less jobs, less taxes, less rent and on and on again.

Well you are dead wrong on this one! Last night local news interviewed final year UW computer science students and they said that none of them were even thinking of working for RIM anyway. Back in 1st year that was on the table, but they have known for a year or two that RIM was going down. Google & Apple were mentioned as possible employers as well as going to Calif. & Europe. The RIM problem will not put a dent in UW enrollment. Not one bit! The starry-eyed newbies next Sept. will have the view, “Who is RIM?”

#216 American Werewolf in BC on 06.29.12 at 4:11 pm

#182 Silver on 06.29.12 at 1:02 pm

Why don’t you just take the money out of your personal pay? Or should ownership only entail reward and not risk?

Taxes shouldn’t modify the value of an employee’s labor after the fact; employees produce tangible, measurable output with real-world value.

Im not sure why they are being punished for a company’s inability to manage payroll, expenses and profits in an ever-changing economic situation. If *you* can’t make it work, take a loss.

#217 American Werewolf in BC on 06.29.12 at 4:15 pm

#193 Management Failed Again on 06.29.12 at 1:35 pm
In Canada people say how can I get a job with the Gov, in US people say how do I start my own company.

===================

Where do you come up with this stuff? Just about everyone I know covets a job in the states on the public gravy train; health insurance costs alone make self-employment an unimaginable venture. The only “entrepenuers” I knew in the states have rich dads, and there aren’t a lot of those to go around.

#218 truth hammer on 06.29.12 at 4:16 pm

#182 Silver……you’re talking ‘way over the heads’ of 90% of the brainwashed socialists that rant on this site. But by all means ….try to get your message through…..even though the truth seems to drive the paycheque flunkies uinto a tizzie.

Of course it’s all about the bottom line….of course there isn’t a magic machine that generates a perpetual amount of money to keep up with taxation….but try to explain that to the infantile and complacent morons who still think there is.

This reminds me of a personal anecdote when I tried to fool my five year ( a long time ago..but lessons learned) by telling him I had no money when he asked me for a video game he’d seen at the mall. I said “Nope…don’t have any dough”. He replied “Just go to the bank machine”.

This infantile acceptance of an idea that money is free and always there to pull out of a magic slot on the wall is pervasive among the greedy classes of civil servants and the thralls that love them…….as the Greeks and other PIIGS are finding though……there will always be a time when you have to grow up.

BTW….for his precise and logical observances I gave in and bought the kid his video game and taught him nothing that day……he did however learn about money eventually and now owns his own very profitable business doing stuff that the lazy labour goons envy because the kid went ahead and earned his won way as opposed to the lazy scum who think waking up in the morning to suck off the taxpayer is cruel and unusual punishment.

Of course we can only be as benevolent to children.

#219 Cory on 06.29.12 at 4:19 pm

#160 KD

Waterloo is grungy? You sound like an total moron.

#220 Gmaz on 06.29.12 at 4:37 pm

@203 can it be?

let me clarify that i understand the CREA is feeding us bull, I just want to understand how people are still falling for it.

#221 dd on 06.29.12 at 4:45 pm

Money printing trade on today with markets up big.

#222 Mike on 06.29.12 at 4:54 pm

To #130 that affordable houses are everywhere in suburbs of downtown Vancouver, just 45 minute drive or less than an hour by transit each way. According to statistics Canada, men and women makes an average hourly wage of 25.39 and 21.19 in BC. So four men and women can afford a 2400 SF House with two suites for far less than $581,000 in City of Delta. You don’t have to wait for the burst to own a House. But if you make minimum wage of $10.25 an hour, you need 8 people to cram into the same House. No job, live in a tent, is free.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/labr69k-eng.htm

#223 Toronto_CA on 06.29.12 at 5:01 pm

My realtor cousin just posted this on FB

“Is Seeing a lot of listings hit the market on a long weekend as we head into summer. Odd!!! Do ya think some folks are sweating about the changes in Amortization lengths??”

I’ve had a war going on FB with him for months now about the impending RE bubble burst. It feels good to be right.

#224 So it begins.... on 06.29.12 at 5:01 pm

187 analysis please
It’s bad because the largest employer of that area is laying off. Confidence drops dramatically in the area, and everyone wonders what is going to happen tp them

It’s a extra 300 homes added to the inventory (20%) and who in that area wants to buy? When the largest employer is cutting jobs.

#225 stickler on 06.29.12 at 5:12 pm

@ #224 So it begins…. on 06.29.12 at 5:01 pm

187 analysis please
It’s bad because the largest employer of that area is laying off. Confidence drops dramatically in the area, and everyone wonders what is going to happen tp them

It’s a extra 300 homes added to the inventory (20%) and who in that area wants to buy? When the largest employer is cutting jobs.

————————-

You can work at Sun Life…unless you are in IT development…then you will have to move to India. Or Maybe Jack knows someone, he is well connected internationally and really knows the IT space.

#226 Devore on 06.29.12 at 5:17 pm

#132 betamax

I was at a conference years ago and almost everyone there had a Blackberry. Went to the same conference last year, and almost no one had one — everyone switched to iPhone or something else. RIM’s dead.

RIM got caught between a rock and a hard place. They had a great thing going, and were pretty much the only player in the space. But as smart phones went mainstream, so did the business sector. RIM did (and still does not) have a product for the consumer space. They desperately needed one, as no one wants to carry around two phones. But they’re no longer the leader and innovator, because they have no experience here. Combined with their typical poor execution and delivery, this spelled their end without a course correction. People are willing to compromise and give up features past a certain threshold. That’s why you see Blackberries being replaced with iPhones.

I like my Blackberry. Does everything I need a phone to do today, and more. And, sorry, but typing more than a couple of texts in a day on a touchscreen keyboard is just not flying. Turns out people will sacrifice pretty much anything for fashion.

RIM has no product on the horizon. Maybe BB10 in a year. That’s an eternity in tech and when a company’s bleeding money. As a public company, with debt, they cannot operate in a “steady state” in a niche market, just holding on to the business they have. So they are toast. Worth whatever their patents and shreds of competitive tech will fetch from a vultch buyer.

RIM merely, and sadly, joins dozens of other would-be kings of tech in the digital graveyard, the likes of Palm, SGI, Nortel, Corel, Borland, 3Dfx, DEC, Novell, Atari, who are now unrecognizable shades of their former selves. They stood still, confident in the security of their supremacy, while the market kept moving until they became irrelevant.

#227 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.29.12 at 5:26 pm

#65 Phil — Agreed. I was laid off once when I was in the workforce. Not a pleasant feeling.

#163 bridgepidgeon — Good to see you’re still around! Haven’t heard from Mike the Engineer for a while, ‘tho. He may have taken a job down south.

#206 GTA Anon — “It is always managements fault and I say they had it coming.” — Agreed. Having worked in union and non-union printing shops, I heard several stories about children who inherited their parents’ businesses, did not know what 1+1 equaled, and subsequently drove those businesses into the ground.

Unfortunately, the workers are the ones who lose the most.

#228 stickler on 06.29.12 at 5:33 pm

I owned Palm…the OS was going to save it….now I know better.

When RIMM was around $65 a close friend said some insiders were telling him this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to get in…I laughed. He over paid for his Oakville house too.

#229 truth hammer on 06.29.12 at 5:34 pm

Market Watch on RIM

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/steve-jobs-destroys-another-rival-from-the-grave-2012-06-29?link=MW_story_popular

Lower prices on houses in Waterloo a sure bet……… as sure as all the jobs at RIM are toast…..which means that lower prices on houses currently owned by distressed engineers will not be resold to greater fools……this is a death spiral for that demographic.

Entire neighborhoods in Detroit are being bulldozed and converted to farmland…….think it won’t happen here? There are no international businesses relocating their interests to Canada and a serious hate-on for business by the unions………………….you can only drop rates to zero once to spur a frenzy by the sheeple……then you run out of sheeple.

Try to imagine what the country would look like under the rule of the beared NDP Mullahs?

#230 Seller on 06.29.12 at 5:38 pm

Here’s a question for folks in the banking business. File this one under “where are the losses?”

This is what I know:

- fairly big parts of the province of BC have been in a housing downturn for over 1 year with damage to date of 10-15% on price. These include the Okanagan, Whistler/Squamish, anywhere North of Victoria on Vancouver island (particularly if retirement oriented), Kootenays.

-more recently downturn started hitting locally (Richmond, West Side, parts of fraser valley and various suburbs like Coquitlam,etc). Prices may be down 5-10% from peak, but they are quite recent.

-also, I note that the BC average provincial weekly wage started diving vs the rest of the country in Jan/Feb and has now dropped about 4% in the past 4/5 months. The data gets weaker every month.

-anecdotally, one sees news about rising foreclosure counts in the Okanagan etc, but there is no central repository of data here.

From all this, I conclude that people must be hurting, and that somewhere losses must be piling up. However, if you look at the financial statements of Central 1 (which is the top entity for BC credit unitions) as of March 31, everything was peachy…no losses. Same thing with Genworth…modest losses, no delinquencies.

And here is what I assume is happening:

-consumers are avoiding facing the music through kiting. Don’t have employment income? Why not tap that HELOC? Or maybe re-fi and extract “equity” from the bank but, seeing as they don’t ask for employment verification, you don’t tell them.

-banks are being a little slow to report gathering losses. Particularly on the residential construction contractor side, I wonder why we aren’t seeing the credit unions and CWB etc reporting all kinds of problems in places like Whistler, the Okanagan etc, where as I understand it, very big projects have gone sideways in a serious way.

-to a degree, the BC situation is unique in its severity and how long it has been going on. Therefore, larger national institutions have been successful in burying the decline in averages…for now.

-then of course, there is just the natural delay in the financial reporting cycle. If books close in June, the results aren’t published until the summer. So what we are seeing in daily/weekly sales and listing numbers is going to take a few months to show up in credit trends.

However, on the foregoing points, I am just guessing. There must be a lot of readers of this blog who work in areas where they are exposed to a piece of this puzzle real time. What are you seeing?

#231 kevsta on 06.29.12 at 5:42 pm

Reggie nailed RIM exactly in 2010.

http://boombustblog.com/blog/item/5743-boombustblog-research-performs-a-rim-job

#232 Herb on 06.29.12 at 5:52 pm

#218 Truth Hammerer,

can’t you get anything right? It’s not “brainwashed socialists” that “rant” on this site. It’s brainless but purposeful neandercons like you that do!

#233 Observor on 06.29.12 at 6:01 pm

LOAN LOSSES HIDING?

Number 230ZSeller said:

Don’t have employment income? Why not tap that HELOC? Or maybe re-fi and extract “equity” from the bank but, seeing as they don’t ask for employment verification, you don’t tell them

**********************************

Absolutely right. I think banks have lost their early warning systems on loan losses. These days if you lose your job the bank does not know until you have maxed out your line of credit and credit cards.

No one will default on a loan as long as they can borrow new money to pay on the old debt.

In a major job loss recession we would eventually see soaring loan losses, I am sure. Bank investors will be thankful for CMHC at that point.

#234 wxman on 06.29.12 at 6:10 pm

Not sure you are much of a contrarian Garth. Most people I talk to think the USA is still number 1 and will bounce back quickly and everything will be like before. And most people think Europe is doomed and housing prices here will never collapse.
The true contrarian would be bullish on the euro and europe and bearish on the usa in general..and correctly bearish on canadian real estate. however us real estate may not be a bad play but might still be a bit early.

#235 P & T S on 06.29.12 at 7:04 pm

# 217 American Werewolf in BC on 06.29.12 at 4:15 pm

In my former career, a little of which was spent in Houston, Tx., EVERYONE (without ANY exception) was desperate to work for Big Government or Big Pharma. NO-ONE (not even those with a “comfortable” financial cushion to rely on) would have even considered the entrepreneurial route, except as a distant “maybe, if I was retrenched, and there was nothing else available”.

So much for the much-lauded “American Entrepreneurial spirit” – may have been the case in the 60′s but definitely NOT the case in the 1980s.

Did anyone notice the ad. for Porsche in one of the major circulation glossy magazines some months back (we read this whilst stuck at Miami awaiting an onward connection) – with the headline “for those who don’t have to work too hard” – implication that hard work does NOT place you in the “Luxury Set”. And, this was a US Magazine too.

Tends to knock the stuffing out of the “If you work harder you’ll get ahead” mindset, especially when the now obvious reality is “if you have the right connections (Family, Social, or cultivated ( by going to the “right” University and studying the “right” course), you’ve got a guaranteed “meal ticket to the top””.

#236 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 06.29.12 at 7:05 pm

-
Rising Prices Eggs quadrupling? NatWest Glitch spreads to France. Not a bad idea to keep some spare cash in the home, and Further to NatWest; US Fed mulling over new gold standard; Obomba and Big Pharma Proof. “Confidential – This has to stay quiet.”; German Cops Good for the police! ObombaCare Funding the feds. 100%; Consumers Not Spending “Yeah, that tends to happen when the money-junkies grab all the wealth to themselves!” wrh.com; Deceitful banxters Bacterial culture in yogurt has a nicer ring to it; Conflict of interest? Bloody right; Menial Jobs There’s always the military option (to keep the wars going); 5:44 clip Bill Moyers on ObombaCare. Short and sweet; Loan Modifications De- Defaulting within 18 months; Crackshack (newer version).
*
GM Humans Humans playing God, and GM vs. Non-GM; NATO and Russia Last time Georgia did the dirty work, Russia flattened them in less than two weeks, so NATO’s gonna give it a try, and Russia retains right to first fire; Scrapping E-voting machines.

#237 DonDWest on 06.29.12 at 7:12 pm

When will Truth Hammer realize the conservatives are in power; and therefore all the grievances he has against the economy are a direct result of actions commited by the conservatives?

#238 Cowardice AND Hypocrisy on 06.29.12 at 7:16 pm

#195 John

“Look. I know what you mean, but I have heard absolutely everything Alex has to say. Everything…He’d blast buckshot through the constitution if he could.”

Are you kidding me?

He is a constitutionalist, man!

He puts himself (and his family) in danger to defend the constitution.

And how is it possible that you have heard “everything” Alex Jones has ever said!?

Yet, you accuse Jones of hyperbole?

Geesh.

P.S. So funny that a red squiggly came up under “constitutionalist” as i was typing…must not be a word!! :)

#239 Westernman on 06.29.12 at 7:20 pm

Chris Scott @ # 111,
Since you are Canadian I’ll make this as simple as possible…
Bullshit jobs= government paid ” civil service ” cubical weasels riding on the backs of productive people producing nothing but reams of useless paper…
Non-Bullshit job= Plumbers, electricians, Auto mechanics and so forth… in other words people who provide actual useful goods and services…
even as a Canadian you MUST be able to see the difference… now go back to Facebook and don’t bother the grown-ups anymore…

#240 Daisy Mae on 06.29.12 at 7:37 pm

“When we met I told him to sell it the next morning. Not yet, he said. “We’re waiting for a rebound.”

Well, I try.”

********************

Don’t give up on us. Most Canadians have thick skulls, but we’re learning….

#241 salonist on 06.29.12 at 7:58 pm

60+ years and bankruptcy and revenue canada.

http://www.bankruptcy-canada.ca/trustees-talk/bankruptcy-alternatives/20100823/bankruptcy-in-canada-for-seniors-with-tax-debt.html

cpp and oas not exempt from revenue canada and bankruptcy?

“Canadians over the age of 65 now have the highest insolvency and bankruptcy rates in the country, according to the latest family finances …”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/22/f-bankrupt-seniors.html

#242 jess on 06.29.12 at 8:28 pm

Since being rescued by the taxpayer RBS has shed about 30,000 jobs, including more than 20,000 UK-based roles, and has outsourced work abroad.
….Hyderabad, India, where Natwest parent RBS employs IT support staff on a yearly wage of between £9,000 and £11,000
The job advertisement said: ‘Looking for candidates having 4-7 years of experience in Batch Administration using CA-7 tool. Urgent requirement by RBS

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164664/NatWest-glitch-Computer-caused-chaos-thousands-supervised-India.html#ixzz1zEQXZ3mT
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164664/NatWest-glitch-Computer-caused-chaos-thousands-supervised-India.html#ixzz1zEQL7tWc

#243 ANONYMOUS on 06.29.12 at 8:30 pm

oh crap !
Garth’s correct, the idiots are coming out of the woodwork here in Waterloo:

One 3 bedroom house listed for $421,000 sold 4 days later for $484,000 !

Another 3 bedroom house, 28 years old; listed for $510,000; sold 3 days later for $637,000 !

Bidding wars going on, even though jobs are being lost. No homes listed for more than a week before they are quickly sold.

#244 hahhahahahh on 06.29.12 at 8:33 pm

hahahahaha, sorry– I can’t stop laughing.

Waterloo RE is TOAST. Laurelwood and Erbsville were built PURELY because of RIM. Everything West of Fischer is because of RIM.

Houses prices in Laurelwood are already collapsing. 3,000 sq ft Mansions that went for 800k in 2009-2010 are on the market for 600-650k already.

Friend’s parents drove by Conestogo in North Waterloo. Literally 1 in 2 houses had a For Sale sign.

Thank riddance to RIM too– Waterloo used to be a nice University town to raise a family in, 2 Universities, quiet. Then came the RIM snobs and ruined Waterloo, almost succeeding in Yuppyfying it.

I’m saving my dollahs$$$ and will be watching the Ex-RIM employee foreclosures in a few years: I won’t bite until I see 60-75% off.

#245 ANONYMOUS on 06.29.12 at 8:50 pm

Yeah, its true, here in The Waterloo area around the universities there are SO MANY student housing projects, either finished or soon to be finished !

I lost count after 50 of them !

There must be 3-times more student apartments then there are students.

But that’s not stopping the crazies from paying 30% over list price for some of the houses here around the RIM Park area, the sales are hot and fast. I think it has something to do with the new regs coming around soon.

#246 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 9:08 pm

#172 cramar on 06.29.12 at 11:47 am

#160 KD on 06.29.12 at 10:25 am
Easy boys, where all becoming Detroit now.

#168 VicBC on 06.29.12 at 11:22 am

#105 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables

What are you smoking?

Nothing lately, that’s just me being normal. Why, what did I say?

#163 bridgepidgeon on 06.29.12 at 10:47 am
Sounds like a great place to live. I drive by the old Kitchener frame all the time, it’s a big job tearing it down. As Sam Roberts would say ‘where have all the good people gone?’ China.

#155 Chris on 06.29.12 at 10:10 am
#148 Engineer on 06.29.12 at 9:26 am
I chatted on the phone with an upper manager at RIM a few years ago while looking for work and he was very impressed with my resume. They wanted another engineer for their team of eight in the power management section! I said it sounds like you don’t need me and laughed and that was the end of that.

My resume is pretty impressive, RF, DC to daylight, software, communications, power electronics, batteries and much more. He was talking to a genius but unfortunately I couldn’t invoice him for that.

Also, I saw a lot of engineers from RIM and was familiar with their culture and was not impressed. From what I gathered the company was cheap and the employees were mostly arrogant geeks. They didn’t even realize I was a god.

#143 disciple on 06.29.12 at 9:09 am

#89 Burnaby… Kindly allow me to assist you with your question. Peter Schiff is an outright fraud.

Disciple, sometimes you sound like a nut, sometimes you don’t. Peter Schiff’s the man. Now smarten up!

#247 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 9:24 pm

DELETED

#248 Herb on 06.29.12 at 9:57 pm

#239 Westermoron,

your comment deserves a response: MORON!

#249 espressobob on 06.29.12 at 10:06 pm

Apple built a better mousetrap. RIM got screwed! Good people got their heads cut off through no fault of their own! Happens all the time.

#250 Westernman on 06.29.12 at 10:12 pm

Herbie @ # 249,
Dear Communist Comrade Herbie,
Very clever post… your comments are getting more and more childlike all the time… perhaps too much Vodka while you peruse your copy of the communist manifesto, maybe…?
I do intuit one thing from your pre-pubescent post though… I think I must be getting uncomfortably close to the truth and you are experiencing a great deal of psychological pain from this…
Try not to get too worked up – I’m sure your old ticker
is barely hanging on…

#251 Beach Girl on 06.29.12 at 10:27 pm

I really think you should not have deleted my post. It was not racist, nor ultra vulgar. Need a vote here.

Just vulgar. — Garth

#252 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 10:32 pm

#195 John on 06.29.12 at 1:44 pm
“God Bless America” attitude. The constitution is super important, but I’d prefer a banker to a gun-totin’ Christian with “rights”. He’d blast buckshot through the constitution if he could.
—-
John, you need to think before you speak. The above sentence is a total contradiction. Where do you think a gun totin’ American get his right to liberty? The constitution.

For a seemingly smart guy a lot of obviousness easily escapes you. Like two of the jokes on this thread previously. You sound like a total know it all who really knows nothing.

#253 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 10:35 pm

#252 Beach Girl on 06.29.12 at 10:27 pm

I really think you should not have deleted my post. It was not racist, nor ultra vulgar. Need a vote here.

Just vulgar. — Garth
—–
He deleted mine too. Was yours a twist about RIM jobs? Mine was. rhymes with ‘planned jobs’.

#254 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 10:43 pm

#211 daystar on 06.29.12 at 3:25 pm

#207 Q on 06.29.12 at 2:48 pm

Postal workers, nurses, cops, judges, politicians, penal guards, border cops, EI revenue and pension accountants, coast guards, military, food drug & water QC etc., oh no. We would never miss that! Thanks for the humor, its good to laugh :)
—–
Wouldn’t miss 3/4ths of them.
Then 1/4th would have to work.

#255 betamax on 06.29.12 at 10:49 pm

#226 Devore: “RIM merely, and sadly, joins dozens of other would-be kings of tech in the digital graveyard, the likes of Palm, SGI, Nortel, Corel, Borland, 3Dfx, DEC, Novell, Atari, who are now unrecognizable shades of their former selves. They stood still, confident in the security of their supremacy, while the market kept moving until they became irrelevant.”

Nicely stated — a succinct and accurate summary of cause & effect.

#256 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 10:50 pm

#216 American Werewolf in BC on 06.29.12 at 4:11 pm

#182 Silver on 06.29.12 at 1:02 pm

Why don’t you just take the money out of your personal pay? Or should ownership only entail reward and not risk?
——
This has to be the most ignorant comment ever.

Why don’t you just stick a gun in every customers ribs and rob them of everything they have.

American werewolf, you have obviously never run a business. Silver shared a slice of reality, trust me, being an owner is not pure riches. It’s 99% poverty 9 time out of 10. Good god.

#257 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 11:00 pm

#232 Herb on 06.29.12 at 5:52 pm

#218 Truth Hammerer,

can’t you get anything right? It’s not “brainwashed socialists” that “rant” on this site. It’s brainless but purposeful neandercons like you that do!
—–
Hahaha, Truth Hammer, you attract a lot of flies!
Your post was spot on. Keep on keeping on.

#258 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 06.29.12 at 11:11 pm

#245 Timing is Everything on 06.29.12 at 8:43 pm

What’s the real story here? Something’s gotta change.

‘Mental illness accounts for almost half of all public service disability claims’
——
Not only is a bloated public sector unhealthy for the economy but it’s brutally unhealthy for the people working in it. Their life has no purpose. I couldn’t imagine living like that.

That’s why I say, certain people go into politics or public service and certian people don’t. Independent, smart, hard working people by nature would blow their brains out working in the public sector. You couldn’t pay me enough.

#259 Mike Broughton on 06.30.12 at 7:43 am

But Oh, things are gonna be scary in a few places for a while. As an I.T. Consultant living in Ottawa, the work has dried up under these austerity measures Harper is inflicting, and it will just continue to spiral as the civil service sheds jobs. I’ll be happy if my house holds its value over the next five years.

I’ve already moved my work out west, telecommuting to Edmonton every day. Perhaps I’ll have to move the family there too. I hope not, but have to explore options. New Zealand is looking pretty good these days….

#260 Q on 06.30.12 at 8:07 am

RE: #211 daystar

Seems that I hit a nerve, so should I assume that you are one of the aforementioned uncivil servants? Judging by your other posts, you seem quite intolerant of any opinion conflicting with your own.

First off, I said Canadian government (that would be federal). So, let’s analyze your comment. Postal workers should be paid by a profitable (or breakeven) postal service to a scale that is affordable (or close the post office), nurses are paid by the province (but I wasn’t referring to health care workers anyway), cops (except the RCMP) are either Municipal or Provincial, politicians (who cares?), federal government accountants (flat tax and simpler systems in general would eliminate the need for 95% of them and lawyers, ie; CRA, EI, CPP and many other acronyms), prison guards would be unnecessary if we just turned Baffin Island into a penal colony, Food & Drug should be regional. There are too many overlapping (redundant) departments, not to mention the beyond inept ministries like fisheries (their stewardship killed BOTH the Atlantic & Pacific fisheries), forestry (under their watchful eyes B.C. loggers all got promoted to Walmart greeters and pizza delivery) and we won’t even start on immigration…..

I was referring more to the army of incompetent, useless, arrogant paper pushers, who contribute little if anything to the either the economy or the country in general, but merely “put in their time” until they can retire to the lake with their platinum pension plans… you know, the ones that contributing members of society (taxpayers) pay for, yet don’t have for themselves.

#261 Herb on 06.30.12 at 8:09 am

#258 Blue Monster

of course Truth Hammerer’s comments attract a lot of flies. Male bovine fecal matter usually does.

#262 Snowboid on 06.30.12 at 12:53 pm

#262 Herb on 06.30.12 at 8:09 am…

The way I look at it – TH, WM, and BMLMV are here to ensure the blog reflects true freedom of speech.

Their digital diarrhea is certainly humourous, mainly because they illustrate how ignorance can used to promote an agenda.

Since I don’t know who they are, nor do they know who I am – it is really nothing more than a game.

Given the exceptional value provided by the Professor on this blog, plus the majority of comments from intelligent posters, it is a small price to pay.

#263 Herb on 06.30.12 at 2:54 pm

#263 Snowboid,

there is a difference between free speech and beating a fact-and-logic-free ideogical drum. Free speech implies integrity and restraint, propaganda relies on the opposite and amounts to an abuse of free speech..

Months ago I asked these worthy gentlemen for facts facts to back up their nostrums, but they declined to even try. It’s not that facts aren’t available, it’s just that they would not support the version of reality they would like to see. Thus, in the absence of evidence and intellectual honesty, they deserve nothing but slapdowns.

#264 American Werewolf in BC on 06.30.12 at 3:53 pm

#257 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on
American werewolf, you have obviously never run a business.

===================

I’ve been self-employed for over a decade, ad hominem aside.

The bottom line is that it is my job to “run” (what I get paid to do) my company properly if I am to expect a return, and there is inherent risk in doing so. If I can’t make it work, by no means should I think shorting the value of labor is justified to ensure my own cut.

Ownership needs to entail both risk and reward. Employees don’t work on a variable sliding scale that changes if I am incompetent in budget management.

#265 Gunboat Denier on 06.30.12 at 7:39 pm

262 Herb – you took 4 separate words to describe what can be done with one compound word. You did work for government!

#266 Herb on 06.30.12 at 10:46 pm

#266 Gunboat Denier,

almost. Heard that expression from an instructor at the Ontario Police College in about 1972, when I attended a Crowd Control Course as an Infantry company commander.

#267 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 07.01.12 at 12:48 pm

#265 American Werewolf in BC on 06.30.12 at 3:53 pm
What Silver is saying is the screws are being tightened on him and many other small businesses. The fixed costs are going up mainly due to increased taxes at a time I assume the economy is turning down. So, yes, something has to give, I assume he’s making his payroll to those who earned it but his point is he needs to make cutbacks to stay cashflow positive. Basically the business is dying, no longer viable, and the government is not helping buy only making it worse.

Silver is not in business to take losses, he’s not running a charity since he’s got bills too. Sounds like it’s over for Silver.

#268 waitin g on 07.01.12 at 4:42 pm

#2
Please provide referencing for your comment. There are contract positions from so the term “layoffs” would not apply.