Anxiety

Remember that famous Chinese-gal-student-bung flap in North Toronto? Sure you do. It’s the moment the Vancouverization of Toronto began, when god-fearin’, average SUV-driving, redneck anglos woke up and found out pansy sweat-shop bazillionaires from Guangdong had just bought their hood. No, worse – children of bazillionaires! Double worse – girls!!

Said the agent, Michael Adelson, who handled the deal: “”There’s a lot of anger among Canadians who earn money here that they’ve been priced out of the market. There is some degree of anxiety about how people are going to compete with these hyper-inflated prices.”

Just to piss off the locals a little more, developer Brad Lamb who, er, sells condos added: “”If you want to live in central Toronto, you’re going to have to live in a condo or be a millionaire. That’s the reality. … It’s not a bad thing. It’s the way cities evolve.”

So the female Chinese student (as the buyer was billed) paid $421,800 over the asking price with an offer of $1,180,800, beating out a dozen other people, four of whom were also willing to pay more than $1 million for a property listed at just over $700,000. Some folks blamed the seller and the realtor for pricing too low and creating a frenzied auction (although it’s hard to get horny about a bungalow in Willowdale). Others saw it (as did most media) through Van eyes, where’s it’s de rigeur now that Mainland Chinese are swallowing cities whole and pricing out the natives.

So here’s the latest.

The house at 300 Dudley Avenue is back on the market, and this time you can have it for just $2,500 – a month. Here’s the listing.

This means that after the owner pays the property tax, and assuming no mortgage costs, the property will generate about $24,000 a year. Based on the purchase price (including land transfer tax) of $1,219,800 that gives a return of 1.96%. After tax, that’s 0.9%. After prevailing inflation, it’s a loss of 1.8%.

So why didn’t the bazillionaire just dump $1.2 million into the orange guy’s shorts and get 2%? Or buy a basket of secure Canadian bank preferred shares and get 5.2%?

Not so fast. The crafty industrialist nouveau riche of Guangdong are far too smart for that. Instead they’ve decided to speculate through the purchase of world-class, 50-year-old bungalows with single car garages (and manual doors) in a city where real estate has never cost more, interest rates will surely rise and household debt is off the chart, and do so by way of a bidding war ensuring overpayment and eventual losses.

I’d say we have jack to worry about.

***

Reed Harris owns a mortgage broker outfit in BC and, to his shame and professional discredit, reads this pathetic blog. “ I do enjoy it,” he admits, “but I have a bit of love/hate with it, as I am in the business.” A day or two ago he noticed a suggestion posted in the nether regions of the comment section which read, “Most folks would be interested in knowing how mortgage brokers were created, how they’re compensated, who they broker for, how they are intertwined with RE agents.” He emailed me yesterday and asked if he could respond. Because I have no agenda and even less common sense, I agreed. So he wrote this…

Mortgage brokers originally were providers of funds for second mortgages, private money, difficult deals, etc, or would arrange a mortgage with a bank type lender for a fee. The bank-type lenders in the 80s saw the brokers as a potential source of new mortgage loans (and therefore new clients), and over time created divisions within their organisations to solicit brokers for ‘A’ business.

The way it works now for ‘A’ business:
–          A potential client is looking for a mortgage. They would approach a mortgage broker to take a full mortgage application.
–          The mortgage broker would then see which lenders would be willing to fund the deal.
–          Say there are 10 lenders that would likely approve the deal. Maybe 4 of those would be offering the best, competitive rate for the mortgage term preferred by the client.
–          Of those 4, 2 might have attractive repayment terms, which benefit the client.
–          Of those 2, one might be a bank with a branch near the client, or perhaps one might calculate their penalty in a way that might benefit the client vs the other. That would be the lender that would “win” the business, and receive the chance to fund the mortgage.

The broker would work with the lender and the client to provide all required documentation to support the application, including confirming income, downpayment funds, credit-worthiness, and any other condition set out by the lender for the approval of the mortgage.

The broker would be paid a fee by the lender, based on the term chosen by the client, and the size of the mortgage. Longer terms and larger mortgages result in greater commission to the broker. However, shorter terms give the broker the chance to possibly move the client to another lender sooner, possibly creating another transaction at the end of the first term. And any closed transaction (and happy client) might create a few referrals, which more than compensates for a small commission.

The brokers fee is priced into the mortgage, not added to the mortgage or causing an increased rate to the client. From the lenders perspective, the new client business is very low cost versus getting the same client via 1. advertising more 2. having additional branches 3. hiring additional staff, with the resulting salary/office/expenses/pension obligations.

The final point raised in the question is ‘how are they intertwined with RE agents”. To answer that, the answer is they aren’t. A good mortgage broker might be a part of the Realtor’s team of professionals that they refer their clients to, in the same way as they might have a lawyer or notary they have used and trust, or a few house inspectors that they have worked with. From the Realtors perspective, they do want the transaction to proceed obviously. Having a good mortgage broker who will help their clients get the best deal is just good business sense. I don’t pay referral fees to realtors, though some brokers do. Any fees paid have to be disclosed to the client by both the broker and the realtor.

A lot of realtors don’t care who their clients use, be it a banker, broker, whatever. The realtor’s job is to find a home that is a fit for their client, not manage the details of the mortgage.

In conclusion, of course there are unscrupulous professionals in every field, real estate not excepted. My MO is to get the best deal for every client, every time. If the client feels that I’ve done good by them, they are more likely to refer me to their friends and colleagues. And receiving referrals is the best way to stay in business. As every professional knows.

I think I should have charged him for this space, no? Maybe $2,500, plus utilities.

220 comments ↓

#1 HAM on 04.12.12 at 8:17 pm

Yahoo FIRST!!!

#2 HAM on 04.12.12 at 8:24 pm

Now back to the playoffs —- oh sorry all you GTA residents and Leafs fans.

#3 Jsan on 04.12.12 at 8:30 pm

Some fallout from the UK housing bubble.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2128825/The-North-South-mortgage-divide-Negative-equity-map-UK-shows-clear-schism.html

.

#4 Mark "the talk" Carney on 04.12.12 at 8:36 pm

Who goes in a bidding war to have a cash flow negative property? The government needs to stop this madness. Stop CHMC and or raise interest rates and have prices come back to reality. Canada and Canadians are on its way to bankruptcy. Companies and jobs will continue to leave Canada since Canadian workers can no longer compete with Americans let alone the world. People are living off credit and they will spend until they go bust. People know they are screwed and so they are living it up until the music stops. It happened in the US where people owed 100g on their HELOC and they all stiffed the banks. I read about cases where the bank offered people to only pay back 3g and they laughed at the banks. Mark Carney I am telling you for the thousandth time people will borrow until they go bankrupt and they are doing that right now. Please tell me you are not an idiot mark Carney?

#5 Tim on 04.12.12 at 8:37 pm

Others saw it (as did most media) through Van eyes, where’s it’s de rigeur now that Mainland Chinese are swallowing cities whole and pricing out the natives.

What else could it possibly be?
The government could easily find out by requiring all property owners to provide the relevant details. So many Chinese use numbered companies or other people to buy that the numbers are higher than most people think.

Based on what? — Garth

#6 mel in victoria on 04.12.12 at 8:37 pm

Garth………are you Greystar?

I am Garth. Deal with it. — Garth

#7 TnT on 04.12.12 at 8:39 pm

Is there any incentive for a foreign buyer to buy property in Canada as a means to move money from their country into ours even if its a lost investment? I don’t understand how someone with that much money would speculate in this market.

Maybe they’re as dumb as we are. — Garth

#8 Jsan on 04.12.12 at 8:40 pm

Meanwhile back in Canada thanks to record low interest rates, the hole gets deeper.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/canadians-continued-to-heap-on-debt-in-first-quarter/article2399535/

#9 Maxamillion on 04.12.12 at 8:42 pm

You can invade a county two ways, with military force or with a big bank account.

#10 Sebee on 04.12.12 at 8:43 pm

OK, this bungalow story has me convinced someone is washing some money here.

For a million you could have a multi unit property bring twice this $2500/mo.

#11 steev on 04.12.12 at 8:45 pm

Dearest HAM,

Thank you for spending your hard earned $$$$ on our land. Your lack of business acumen allows me to rent nicer and nicer places for less and less while saving enough for my future to retire in style.

Your Pal

Steev

#12 Paully on 04.12.12 at 8:48 pm

I just love the entire nine-word property description in that listing: “Walk To Subway, Community, School. Best Schools In City.”

Not a single word about the actual house. In Realtorese, that means that the house is probably very grim inside, indeed.

And all that for only a Million-two! Wow!

#13 Steven Rowlandson on 04.12.12 at 8:48 pm

At least the guy with the sign can spell.

#14 Duke on 04.12.12 at 8:48 pm

I think we are all in agreement that gasoline prices will continue to rise to infinity over the long term. So if that’s the case and we all agree to it how will people get from work to their million dollar bungs in say 10-20 years? I don’t see electric and hybrid cars taking over anytime soon. Gas should be 2-3 dollars a litre by then. I just get the feeling that prices will come down as we realise that the GTA is a living arrangement we can’t afford.

Prices will crash once people realise they can no longer afford their lifestyles!

#15 Mark "the talk" Carney on 04.12.12 at 8:50 pm

F the dummy see soft landing for housing? We have either really stupid people running the country or they are planning to bankrupt Canadians and thus Canada. Their actions defy logic and reason . Might as well borrow until I go bankrupt since our leaders want all Canadians to live it up today to go bankrupt tomorrow. I give up…time to go for broke. What a stupid fascist country Canada has become.

#16 Randy on 04.12.12 at 8:52 pm

It’s absurd crap !!……

Where can you get a Karate lesson for $4 ?

#17 Ice & Rivet Centennial on 04.12.12 at 8:56 pm

I still wouldn’t pay $2,500 to rent that Willow shoe box.

#18 Steven Rowlandson on 04.12.12 at 8:59 pm

That bungalow that rents for 30 grand a year looks like a 30 grand property to me. Still relative too the inflated market value the total rent is slim pickings and after expenses its a pretty crappy deal. If the owner could capture the alleged market value of the property there has got to be better investments than real estate.

#19 Some catch phrase on 04.12.12 at 9:01 pm

Pure madness, pure and simple. Sick of it all.

#20 Alberta Renter on 04.12.12 at 9:02 pm

The Dudley Avenue house purchase now stinks of a laundromat. Could it be that illegal money is finding a place to roost by paying young students to front ownership?

#21 Bill Gable on 04.12.12 at 9:04 pm

“Dumb as a bag of hammers” – said the contractor. I was in the elevator with a guy that has been driving us insane taking a condo, bought by a Chinois Bazillionaire, who proceeded to take three apartments and combine them, without any permits. Then, when he was told he was breaking fire code, and was told it was against the law to put a heat exchanger on the Balcony (Fire code again) – he said pit it back to three units, and do it on the cheap.
Everyday we wake up to banging and hammering. It will be going on for months. The Contractor was stupefied that anybody could be this stupid. “I am making a ton and the owner could care less”. Now more good news, another two units are being gutted by Chinese Mainlanders, and we will have banging for another gosh knows how long. I asked the guy what he thought they were doing. “I dunno, dude, but they still haven’t got any permits”. I told them five times, you have to go through due process. I was told to shut up and rip the place up”.
He doesn’t care, he’s making a ton of gelt.
My point is – just because the nouveau riche in Guangdong have millions, doesn’t give them any special powers. I noticed another big developer went broke in China today.
The owners of these suites have NEVER been here. They think they are smart. Well – guess what? There are no more rentals allowed, so unless they finish and sell them, they are throwing away over a MILLION BUCKS A SUITE. These will be empty for years, because NO ONE is buying anything in the West End in that range, here in Dumbcouver.
I spent the day on the phone with a broker in Penticton, as we are looking for land in the Okanagan and getting a bunker (sorry Garth, no Amazons) and a place to grow a nice garden. There are a spate of places to buy – and the prices are dropping by the day. I was told to basically make an offer, any offer. Vultch City baby.

So – for all you xenophobes – stupid is as stupid does….whether it be in China or that sinkhole, Ditchmond.

The 9.0 Earthquke that is overdue will level the playing field. We plan to be out of here, and watch the mess from afar. Oh, and did I mention we just got a rental lease for five months on a lovely place in Maui? Two million bucks, three years ago. We got it for $2900 a month.

Boy – a lot of people have no clue and must be getting killed.

Houe Horny is so passé. Next comes – “how do we pay for food”? Check the prices lately?

Big G has been warning all and sundry that .50 raise in rates in the offing, and so many already up to their neck schmucks are going to be at the Food Bank.

Greed and stupidity kill. Don’t say Mr. Turner didn’t try and warn you. I have no sympathy for the greedy, stupid people that think you can get something for nothing, and yer chicks for free.

Say goodnight, Gracie.

#22 T.O. Bubble Boy on 04.12.12 at 9:05 pm

HAM – 3 more games and you can riot again… And watch the American NHL teams playfor the cup that spends most of the year in Toronto (at the Hockey Hall of Fame)

#23 Steve Thompson on 04.12.12 at 9:09 pm

This is what it looks like when a housing market implodes:

http://viableopposition.blogspot.ca/2012/04/vancouver-vs-los-angeles-real-estate.html

Median home prices as a multiple of household income in Los Angeles reached a peak of 11.4, just above the multiple of 10.6 currently found in Vancouver’s market. Since 2006, L.A. homes have dropped in value by nearly 45 percent and the median multiple has dropped to a still relatively unaffordable 5.7.

Welcome to Vancouver’s future.

#24 Smoking Man on 04.12.12 at 9:10 pm

Garth you’re freeking me out where did you get that pic of me lol

#25 Renting In The GTA on 04.12.12 at 9:12 pm

Upper Unionville (Kennedy Rd. & 16th Ave. area)

Releasing in a few weeks.

Let’s see how expensive and how fast these idiots buy these out.

I love this area… but I will wait for the fools to buy them first, and buy it off them when the market dips…

#26 guy from toronto on 04.12.12 at 9:14 pm

hey I am a real estate bear and have been for years, and it’s cost me for sure.

And I think it’s absurd that a crap bungalow like the one in question can be “worth” so much.

But perhaps the new owners are simply looking to realize some rental income while they create the plans for their mcmansion and get the approvals etc?

don’t get me wrong, I don’t condone any of this crap. That house should sell for $200K imho.

But just wondering if the rental is a temporary way to garner some $ to pay for permits, architects etc instead of having the house sit empty.

#27 anon on 04.12.12 at 9:14 pm

Others saw it (as did most media) through Van eyes, where’s it’s de rigeur now that Mainland Chinese are swallowing cities whole and pricing out the natives.

What else could it possibly be?
The government could easily find out by requiring all property owners to provide the relevant details. So many Chinese use numbered companies or other people to buy that the numbers are higher than most people think.

Based on what? — Garth

^ My realtor (one of the top in Vancouver) sent out an update to all of her clients. She reported that 78% of SFM that she sold (she sold 114M worth of real estate last year) went to Chinese buyers. My understanding is that many foreigners also give their local lawyers/accountants etc address, so I am not sure anyone has correct stats on the issue.

#28 Uki on 04.12.12 at 9:15 pm

“#4 Mark “the talk” Carney on 04.12.12 at 8:36 pm
Who goes in a bidding war to have a cash flow negative property? ”

Dirty money.

#29 McLovin on 04.12.12 at 9:16 pm

Garth I think you are missing an important point.

I would venture that a ton of this HAM money is dirty and they are trying to get it offshore anyway possible. Considering they risk losing 100% if it stays in China they really don’t care if house prices drop 50%. A house in Canada is protected by law and cannot be taken away from them.

#30 Bond junkie on 04.12.12 at 9:21 pm

Garth, a bit of history for you… back in 1989 my family was renting a beautiful 3bdrm apt in Thorncliffe Park for approx 1500$ p mo. I was attending elementary school at the time, housing was getting decimated across the GTA, and I remember my father distinctly saying, “Why would I spend 200k of my hard earned money on some old narrow crapshack in Leaside??” 23 years and 600% later, that turned out to be the worst financial decision he ever made in his life. I suspect if we fast fwd another 23 years there’s bound to be more than a few poor souls out there who will be saying the EXACT same thing. “Why didn’t I just drop that million bucks on the detached in Leaside in 2012, I’m so stupid…”

#31 syd on 04.12.12 at 9:24 pm

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1160061–five-housing-hot-spots-in-toronto

#32 J-man in Asia on 04.12.12 at 9:27 pm

“Is there any incentive for a foreign buyer to buy property in Canada as a means to move money from their country into ours even if its a lost investment? I don’t understand how someone with that much money would speculate in this market.

Maybe they’re as dumb as we are. — Garth”

Yes Garth, they are.

#33 Dontcallmeshirley on 04.12.12 at 9:34 pm

I’m with #9 and #27, that North York deal is money laundering. Could The seller and buyer not have been arm’s length and did a cash back after closing the deal?

#34 This is Wonderland on 04.12.12 at 9:34 pm

Is there any incentive for a foreign buyer to buy property in Canada as a means to move money from their country into ours even if its a lost investment? I don’t understand how someone with that much money would speculate in this market.

Maybe they’re as dumb as we are. — Garth
—————————————————————–

or….

http://esccorporateservices.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/how-money-laundering-affects-economy-and-why-it-needs-to-be-prevented/

#35 coastal on 04.12.12 at 9:40 pm

“OK, this bungalow story has me convinced someone is washing some money here.

For a million you could have a multi unit property bring twice this $2500/mo.”

#9 Seebe

I think it’s a no brainer that 99% is dirty money. Using the young female is the same as a staged marriage for immigration purposes except it’s a house.

These people price their own people out then come here and do the same with no worry of any backlash, legally or morally cause they have no morals.

#36 Anonymous on 04.12.12 at 9:42 pm

Hearsay: all bigger money from China (> 1m) is tinted with corruption.
Laundering that money is deemed important.
A drop of house price 40% is just a small cost for doing dirty business.

#37 Smoking Man on 04.12.12 at 9:46 pm

We have a real estate bubble because the entry level buyers are stupid and young. Most young couple buyers have degrees. What is the most important lesson in school? .
Fitting In,
and that’s what they attempt to do when they buy.

This country is crying out for innovation and creativity, yet via the education industrial complex we produce a multitude of people who can push buttons, but not invent better ones.

From yesterday:
#165 Smoking man blowing smoke on 04.12.12 at 7:01 pm
You’re all slaves and are too stupid to trade for a living.
After all, someone has to do the real work of the world and it’s not going to be me. And all those stupid guy who went to college and ended up with MD’s, CPA’s, PEng’s, MSCS’s and Phd’s Math, hell even that guy from Hamilton who won the Noble for options theory or even old Hull himself, they really don’t know f all and are all brainwashed, case I’m the great smoking man, who smokes cause basic stats don’t mean nothing.
…………………………………………………………………………..
Now with all your education why can’t you see globalization is great tool for investors like me, money moves across oceans effortlessly chasing the lowest labour rates.

It’s making middle classes out of the poor there, and makes the middle class here, poor.

You’re only salvation down the road for a good standard of living is to trade.

Stocks, Bonds, Nuts and Bolts, Condoms, or Door Bell’s.

“Smoking man blowing smoke” You’re probably someone in the teaching profession.
Do you’re job, take you’re Q’s from me an and teach.

#38 Mark "the talk" Carney on 04.12.12 at 9:55 pm

All this talk of HAM is pure bunk. Why isn’t HAM buying up the US where you can buy Two similar US houses for the price of one Canadian Home? HAM is a very tiny number that’s meaningless. The real issue is cheap easy money and low interest rates. Remove fascist CHMC and prices will crash 50% overnight. Everyone know this as 100% fact. The fascist conservatives hate open and free markets and have run up a debt as big as the National debt. The plan is to bankrupt Canada.

#39 blase on 04.12.12 at 9:55 pm

Hey Bill Gable,

No rentals? Man a bunch of people must be soiling themselves.

Any chance of posting a pic of your Maui place? Just curious what $2,900/month gets me in Maui. I’d love to set up an esl business in the winter months there!

#40 AprilNewwest on 04.12.12 at 9:55 pm

Poco, where did you disappear to?

#41 Keith in Calgary on 04.12.12 at 9:55 pm

Ever heard of “passport properties” there Garth ???

A rich foreign investor of any nationality (it’s really irrelevant where they come from) creates a RE holding company here in Canada, hires relatives on paper and invests at least the minimum amount (or in these casses much more) under the prevailing immigrant investor guidelines to start the business, so that the family gains access to Canada.

And that first “investment” is ? An overpriced passport, errrrrr……piece of property for the new business.

Is it legal…..yes……should the program exist ? That’s another debate entirely.

#42 penpal on 04.12.12 at 10:00 pm

@ # 20 Bill Gable

Want to stop the hammering on the suites that don’t have permits?

Just call up the city permits department anonymously, tell them what’s happening and give them the address.
And, oh yeah, mention that no engineering review was conducted, that’ll get them going!

If you play it right and are lucky, you should be able to stop that noise for several months cause you know he’s going to restart work sans permits and then most cities get nasty.

Just curious, no rentals allowed, but a guy can carve up 3 suites, sans permits, and the condo board allows this in a building with million dollar suites? That seems odd.

#43 Michael C on 04.12.12 at 10:00 pm

I have seen the other side of mortgage brokers. I used to process broker apps on behalf of the bank. I can tell you there are many bad brokers out there. And the reason they are bad is because they are paid by the bank, not by the buyer.

As Reed says, brokers are paid by the bank based on mortgage term length. I have seen tonnes of people signed up for 5 year terms, when they had intention to sell within 3 years. They get hosed with a penalty, which the broker did not explain to them.

And does the broker really “shop” your app around to the bank with the best rate, or do they just go with whoever will pay their broker fee with the least amount of hassle? You get one guess.

As with anything else, you get what you pay for. Considering you didn’t pay anything for your broker, you often don’t get much.

#44 J in Calgary on 04.12.12 at 10:00 pm

This may or may not be dirty money. I wish ladbrokes gave odds on this. I lived int Asia for a number of years and the number of dodgy buiness deals and creative, (shady) accounting practices I encountered was shocking. I worked with with a company that made sensors and if you’ve ever a logitech mouse you most likely had one of these sensors in it. When 2008 crashed they completed made up fake orders to keep the factory open because they didn’t want to lay off the workers. I couldn’t beleive what was going on and how they pulled through all this was just as amazing.

#45 Led on 04.12.12 at 10:02 pm

I used to want the market to crash so I could buy, but lately I don’t even want to get in. I am done. I love being able to move every few years into a new place without the hassle of selling a place. Feel so free. plus it is way cheaper.

#46 TaxHaven on 04.12.12 at 10:03 pm

You just don’t get it, having likely never lived there.

China & Taiwan churn out debt-free multi-millionaires. Professionals, factory or business-owners there save, invest and produce ~ something the overpaid, underworked, coddled & protected hockey-watchers of socialist Canuckistan don’t understand.

Those people aren’t concerned about “overpaying”. They don’t need mortgages. They intend to keep the property long-term: it’s NOT a “flip”. They are not “speculating”: they are buying HOUSES overseas, not “investments”. They wire the funds and pay cash.

And Vancouver property is STILL considerably cheaper, for what you get (bung or otherwise), than even a decent condo in Taipei, Guangzhou, Foshan, Shanghai or Shenzhen.

Brad Lamb was dead right. Our proles ARE getting priced out of their own major cities – and they have no one to thank for it but themselves – and their governments.

Because, ironically, it has been capitalism, REAL capitalism, that made the buyers rich.

#47 penpal on 04.12.12 at 10:03 pm

@ # 25 Anon

Is it possible that your RE buddy is Chinese or is the majority of their clientele is Chinese?

That may skew the numbers just a tad, don’t you think?

#48 Smart Blonde on 04.12.12 at 10:06 pm

Mclovin, I’d agree that some of this money is dirty! But if it isn’t, a lot of them have made their money off exploiting their own people. Do we really want them investing in our beautiful country and pricing our young out of the market? It is about time our government capped them at one property, unless they have immigrated into Canada, pay taxes with their earnings, and contribute to society. Is that asking for much?????

#49 Smoking Man on 04.12.12 at 10:06 pm

Here brilliant sample of innovation,

My son the amazing door to door salesmen of alarm systems.
Now he tried to sell me an alarm. No way in China I getting one, all valuables are scattered trough out city in safety deposit boxes, House is insured. Nothing that he can say or do will make me get one.

Few weeks later someone spray paints my fence, no Idea what it means, my other son says that’s a gang thing. Wife freaks out, look what your insane blogging did some one is after us. I could not reason with her, so I caved, Got the damn alarm.

Today My son is licking his chops, massive commission check. But he has a smirk on his face looking at the key pad.

The basterd, I knew it was him with the paint, he won’t own up to it. But I know.

Now That’s smart, He out smoked the master smoker.

#50 Form Man on 04.12.12 at 10:07 pm

while there is undoubtedly foreign money being washed by buying real estate in Canada, it doesn’t account for enough of the total market to make much difference.
Sadly, our real estate bubble is being inflated primarily by Canadian citizens, and the Harper government is the cheerleader, blinded by ideology, and a misplaced belief in their own smarts. A stupider bunch has not run Canada in a long time.

#51 penpal on 04.12.12 at 10:09 pm

@ # 24

They just dropped around $40K on land transfer tax, do you really think they care about $2,500 a month for a few months before building, paying the realtor fees for renting it, etc., etc., let alone the hassle of a tenant and who is going to lease it for less than a year anyways?

Don’t forget, the return that Garth quoted assumes that there is NO MORTGAGE (i.e. no mtge payments).

#52 penpal on 04.12.12 at 10:10 pm

@ # 40 S M

You must be parent of the year.

What a dumbass you are.

#53 JRH on 04.12.12 at 10:12 pm

When did the orange guy raise his rate to 2%.

Intimate apparel rate. — Garth

#54 Inglorious Investor on 04.12.12 at 10:20 pm

Re: the infamous, Asian-acquired, runt ranch. It’s sale price is quite simply what the market (or really stupid people) will bear.

#55 guy from toronto on 04.12.12 at 10:22 pm

smoking man, this is just sad.

Your son gets a “massive” commission cheque for spray painting your fence and selling one alarm system?

Woot!

#47 Smoking Man on 04.12.12 at 10:06 pm
Here brilliant sample of innovation,
My son the amazing door to door salesmen of alarm systems.
Now he tried to sell me an alarm…..Today My son is licking his chops, massive commission check. But he has a smirk on his face looking at the key pad.

#56 Smoking Man on 04.12.12 at 10:24 pm

#28 Bond junkie on 04.12.12 at 9:21 pm

You’re right and timing is everything. You catch the double top on bond yields?

#57 guy from toronto on 04.12.12 at 10:25 pm

#49 penpal on 04.12.12 at 10:09 pm
@ # 24

yeah, I see what you’re saying, for sure. I can’t figure out how people like this might think…just trying to think of an explanation.

none of it makes any sense, frankly.

#58 T.O. Bubble Boy on 04.12.12 at 10:35 pm

Lot’s of institutions offer 2% savings accounts:

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/data/rates?order=d&pageType=deposit_acct&sort=SAVING&page=1

#59 Canadian Watchdog on 04.12.12 at 10:40 pm

#25 anon

Foreign investment is buying, but not as much as the media portrays them to be. There is by far more domestic speculation driving the market, who are chasing the story of massive inflows of foreign investors. Once the market figures out everyone has the same strategy and looks back from the herd to find no followers, nash equilibrium is reached, and that’s when everyone heads for the exit door.

It’s the same bubble behavior played out for hundreds of years and never fails because humans are imperfect.

#60 Mikey the Realtor on 04.12.12 at 10:42 pm

#47 Smoking Man on 04.12.12 at 10:06 pm
“My son the amazing door to door salesmen of alarm systems.”

oh that was your son at my door the other day? geez, he did look a little odd with with a big the crack pipe in his mouth, you may want to school him on smoking that in between houses and not in front of the customer…home schooling does have it’s limits as we’re finding out.

#61 steev on 04.12.12 at 10:53 pm

#44 TaxHaven

So your HAM capitalists think the best use of their scarce capital is to buy cash flow negative properties for the long term? Certainly makes me sleep easy at night knowing they’re what I have to compete with.

I don’t know why you think Brad Lamb is any smarter, he was recently quoted in Toronto post real estate round table “So what’s happening here is exactly what happened in New York nine years ago”

I guess he hasn’t looked at the Case-Shiller numbers for New York. In the last nine years New York is up a whopping 10.1%…it almost kept pace with inflation. The time to buy NYC is probably today, not nine years ago.

Cheers

#62 Dan in Victoria on 04.12.12 at 10:57 pm

Costal from yesterday.

Yes, that plumber is right there is a glut of trades now in good ol Victoria.
Bad thing is these young guys who started businesses think that the pricing of the last few years is the norm.
Boy are they in for a rude wakeup.
As always the smart ones will survive.
Take a few years to flush the excess, then a few more years of throat cutting and it will be back to having trouble getting decent trades.
Seen this dance time and time again.
I really want to sit this one out.

#63 kroc on 04.12.12 at 10:59 pm

Two of my close co-workers are recent immigrants from mainland China. The stories they tell me are mind boggling. To them, this flow of money is expected. In their words, so much of the wealth that the rich had has been made from shady deals (if you have a billion people, the only way you can compete is to cheat), and these people need to get it out of the country before the government takes it.

The interesting thing is they don’t seem to see it as right or wrong, just how reality is over there. Quite fatalistic. Kind of reminds me of my time working in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are very proud of what good businessmen they are. Use family and corruption to land government contracts, then use slave labour from Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Phillipines (who can’t even leave the country without their sponsors permission) to do the work at a 1000% markup. Genius!

#64 John G. Young on 04.12.12 at 11:00 pm

#12 Steven Rowlandson on 04.12.12 at 8:48 pm

“At least the guy with the sign can spell.”

Oh really? So what is “kidnaped” — is that when you are dragged away by the nape of your neck?

But then what would I know, I’m just an immoral homosexual (as per your previous post).

#65 Beach Girl on 04.12.12 at 11:03 pm

WOW, had Lasik surgery, feel great, it is great, but all my friends look older. LOL. I know Westernhomo and Mikey the Retard with have something nasty to say.

The ‘pickins’ just got smaller.

#66 SE Asian Expat on 04.12.12 at 11:08 pm

That bungalow has the same dimensions as a little house I’m thinking of buying in Bali overlooking a rice paddy near high quality restaurants and shops. The Balinese style house has marble floors, artistic stoneware, tile roof and modern fixtures.
Price? 70k usd.

Question #1 Should I feel guilty about buying this property with money made outside Indo?

Question #2 Should I feel guilty that I could easily afford 30 years in retirement in balmy weather, eating healthy food, with inexpensive domestic help, and minimal (property) taxes when locals cannot?

Question #3 Should I feel guilty that I don’t pay any capital gains tax on an offshore portfolio of dividend paying stocks, bonds and ETFs when most locals don’t even have a bank account?

Question #4 Is what I’m doing different from HAM buying Canadian property?

These are the questions that my monkey mind entertains between Yoga classes. Any answers or comments out there?

#67 Andrew on 04.12.12 at 11:11 pm

The obvious explanation why there is such an enormous gap between rent and buy prices for 300 Dudley Avenue is that is in North York a few blocks east of Yonge Street, which is a highly desirable area. It is an obvious candidate to be torn down and replaced with condos in the future, even though the actual building is close to worthless and the owner of the building obviously doesn’t want to maintain it. A renter cannot exercise the option to replace this house with condos while an owner can.

An example of this is that there are some fairly run down rental townhouses near Yonge & Davisville that rent for just over $2000/month which is way below market for this area. However the owner of these townhouses is planning to replace them with high end rental apartments.

Like any big city non-rich people in Toronto will have to either live in condos, spend 2 hours a day driving on the 401 in rush hour or buy a house in the ghetto. This is increasingly true in the US as well, in big cities that have performed well in the recession (e.g. New York, Washington, Bay Area, Los Angeles/Orange County). In Toronto this is largely caused by supply restrictions due to the greenbelt. I agree that Toronto real estate might be in a mild bubble because of real estate speculation and low interest rates, but in my opinion the bubble is limited to condos in downtown Toronto and especially Yorkville. Condos in the suburbs of Toronto are reasonably priced. The only severe real estate bubble in Canada is in Vancouver.

Condo towers don’t often get built in the middle of a SFH neighbourhood. — Garth

#68 renters rule on 04.12.12 at 11:12 pm

BEACH GIRL YOU ROCK

#69 Form Man on 04.12.12 at 11:19 pm

#184 yesterday ( westernweaned too early)

I guess with the banning of DA, we shall be forced to aim our ridicule at the cockroaches inhabiting the dark and dirty corners of the blog. Luckily, you provide an ample target for our softly-lobbed missives.
I know you secretly want to be dominated by a strong Liberal feminist from Saskatchewan……….this can be arranged………

#70 TaxHaven on 04.12.12 at 11:22 pm

#59 steev

There are no “Chinese investors”, only Chinese BUYERS.

They want a second house, in Vancouver (or Australia, or parts of the U.S.) and they need it NOW. Why should they care whether it’s “cash flow negative” or whatever you’re trying to say? They’re flush with CASH, not credit.

It’s like one wanting to take a vacation THIS WEEK. You don’t wait months for the cheapest vacation package: you have the cash ready and choose what you want now.

You obviously don’t understand: the properties they buy are NOT “investments”. They want to live in them, or at least keep them a a second house. That’s all…

Take a look at the picture. Seriously? — Garth

#71 renters rule on 04.12.12 at 11:22 pm

Andrew — thanks for yet another message brought to us by a realtor.

There is NO valid, rational explanation for current housing prices in Canada. None.

There are going to be a lot of personal bankruptcies coming soon to a neighbourhood near you.

#72 ANONYMOUS on 04.12.12 at 11:24 pm

Mark Carney HAS NO BALLS !
That’s the truth.

#73 earlymidlifecrisis on 04.12.12 at 11:25 pm

@25-My friend the sociologist did not like some of the racist comments here when i sent her a fool blog post. she did some research and found that most buyers here in van were Canadian, not foreigners. However, i didn’t ask her where she got her data as it was a passing comment, not an in depth discussion.

#74 anon on 04.12.12 at 11:27 pm

#45 penpal on 04.12.12 at 10:03 pm
@ # 25 Anon

Is it possible that your RE buddy is Chinese or is the majority of their clientele is Chinese?

That may skew the numbers just a tad, don’t you think?

^^
1) she’s not my buddy, she’s my realtor
2) she’s not Chinese
3) she *just* brought on a mandarin speaking agent to her team this month, so her focus has clearly not been on HAM

I’m not claiming anything – I’m just passing on a stat that was forwarded to me in her update. Take it for what it’s worth. She also said (in her public update to all clients) that all Chinese buyers were represented by their own agents.

#75 guy from toronto on 04.12.12 at 11:32 pm

to #64 SE Asian Expat

sounds pretty sweet

any suggestions of where I should look? am thinking it’s time to bail on TO and go somewhere warm.

#76 gumby greeks pokey on 04.12.12 at 11:38 pm

real estate is the reAL money in gta

#77 Bottoms_Up on 04.12.12 at 11:42 pm

#28 Bond junkie on 04.12.12 at 9:21 pm
——————————————-
Or, the reverse could be true in 23 years:

“Why did I ever decide to drop a cool mill on a crapshack (that is now worth $200,000) in Leaside?”

#78 Dumb & Dumber on 04.12.12 at 11:48 pm

Carney & F have screwed this country for decades to come. Greenspan has nothing on us!

#79 Canadian Watchdog on 04.12.12 at 11:54 pm

#65 Andrew

“but in my opinion the bubble is limited to condos in downtown Toronto and especially Yorkville. Condos in the suburbs of Toronto are reasonably priced. The only severe real estate bubble in Canada is in Vancouver.”

It doesn’t matter where in Canada the bubble blows first because the liability falls on the banks’ and CMHC’s balance sheet (centralized). Once home prices start falling, banks stop lending to risky borrowers. Why? Because their only interest is to sell mortgage securities to investors, and if the assets (mortgages/HELOCs) are declining in value, the banks or CMHC will have to cover payments (net interest spread) or replace the pool with higher quality assets (overcollateralization).

It becomes a negative feedback loop with an outcome much worse then Garth expects.

#80 neo on 04.12.12 at 11:56 pm

I know he is homeless but anyone else look at that sign and originally think he was looking for $4 karate lessons (-:

#81 patiently waiting on 04.12.12 at 11:59 pm

# 70 Anonymous
Mark Carney HAS NO BALLS !
That’s the truth.
—————————————————————–
Anonymous I think you may be right . . . Mark should give Jenna Talackova a call to get the name of her/his plastic surgen since he’s half way there already . . . he’s not much of a BOC Govenor . . . maybe he’s got a shot in the pageant if the Donald will let him in . . . LOL

#82 furst on 04.13.12 at 12:01 am

Is what I’m experiencing normal? When I read Smoking Man’s posts, I get infuriated. Like really really angry. So angry in fact that I’m going to bang my head against the wall. AARRGGGGH.

#83 $$$BPOE#1 on 04.13.12 at 12:01 am

Canada’s changed folks. It will never return to the way things used to be. Remember when your neighbour came from all walks of life and ethnicities, when if you needed a house you just bought a house. A million is now the starting point in BPOE and some other choice Cities. As a Canadian renter your choices are now limited. You can either rent and go into retirement owing a ton of money in rent. Remember most Canadians don’t have pensions and the debt load is owed by renters as well, a fact conveniently left out of this blog. The other choice for the Canadian is to take on a huge debt load and ride the wave upward. In BPOE if you can handle the stress of the debt you will WIN in the long term. Investors from all over the world not just China are descending on BPOE as it is considered THEE safe haven for money from around the world. The extra benefit of Chinese investors come from the commitment to owning real estate, the Gateway to Asia, excellent health care with private Medical, no restrictions on ownership and a World Class City with the best Asian restaurants in North America along with excellent services making it a seamless move for newcomers from Asia. Owning real estate has changed forever folks. It’s just finally starting to sink in for all the renters who made a UFD. Unrecoverable Financial Decision. Going into retirement on CPP still paying $1000’s a month for rent when you could be paying $0 with a mortgage paid off and a suite to cover taxes and maintenance. 20 years from now you would be that much closer to TFF. Total Financial Freedom. The choice is yours

#84 Poorgoisie on 04.13.12 at 12:03 am

Does anyone on here honestly think these Chinese millionaires are having more of an effect on housing prices than wide eyed kids looking at half a million dollars like it’s nothing? Look at the people you know. How many are Chinese millionaires? How many are kids mortgaged out their ass?
Tabarnoodles

#85 Debtfree on 04.13.12 at 12:15 am

@ formman have you seen the ultra hospital for the ultra rich proposed for west kelowna on the rez. They say they are going to build it starting this year or next . And btw you leave us cockroaches alone . Unless you mean” the tsunami can’t get me I’m on the other side of the island “guy.

#86 mac on 04.13.12 at 12:21 am

You really don’t get it. The fact that they paid whatever millions and then rent it for a pittance … rent isn’t what their interested in. They can bid up TO prices hugely to the detriment of everyone. They’re moving money out of a corrupt country. And if they stop, the Russians can simply take their place, or the Iranians, or the Brazilians. It’s globalization and they’re not interested in preferred or RY stock.

#87 Tim on 04.13.12 at 12:25 am

Re #46

Too late, thanks to our Government, they’ve ruined it. Prices are already too high. Even if they cut the flow tomorrow, many are already priced out.

#88 This is Wonderland on 04.13.12 at 12:25 am

#68 TaxHaven

So what you are saying is that these people are so wealthy they no longer care if they lose their money in a bad investment; cause it just feels so good to own Realestate in Canada.
That’s really interesting.

#89 Tim on 04.13.12 at 12:30 am

“A stupider bunch has not run Canada in a long time.”
Cuts to the food inspection agency, cuts to CBC, cuts to Ministry of Environment, cuts to border services, lies about true cost of F-35s, withholds information on F-35s, didn’t have the balls to adjust the MPs bloated pensions, but continues to screw the middle class, robo calls used to steal the election, pro-rouged parliament twice, kissing ass to the Americans…too bad most Canadians are either ignorant or too lazy to protest and make their opinions known to their MPs

#90 Form Man on 04.13.12 at 12:37 am

#83 Debtfree

hmmm…..the Westbank Indian Band liberating some cash from the rich ,white, frightened, sick people……the irony is delightful

#91 Tim on 04.13.12 at 12:37 am

Re #71
She’s full of it. Just walk around Kerisdale and you’ll see the true picture…

#92 Sherry Cooper on 04.13.12 at 12:45 am

Dump and anything East of Winnipeg is redundant.

Oh Garth…..I promise to re-penthouse….4-give me…. in either offishole language.

#93 Not 1st on 04.13.12 at 12:47 am

Garth, do you actually know anyone who is a chinese ex-pat? If so, then you would know that they view the stock market as gambling and they would just as rather go to Macau to do that same thing and have a lot more fun. On the other hand, real estate…is well, real.

#94 Engineered on 04.13.12 at 12:50 am

F has spoken!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/flaherty-sees-softening-in-housing-market/article2400653/

“I’m actually encouraged that the market itself is showing some correction,” Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said while visiting Alberta Thursday. “We’re not seeing so much of that in Toronto, but in Vancouver, yes.”

The crash starts tomorrow… sell now, or sell NEVER!

#95 J.I.M on 04.13.12 at 12:54 am

Interesting post in Garth’s column by the mortgage broker. I didn’t understand a word of it.

#96 John G. Young on 04.13.12 at 12:55 am

#63 Beach Girl on 04.12.12 at 11:03 pm

Glad the surgery went well.

Enjoy your clear vision — something that others on this blog (who shall go unnamed) could use…

#97 J.I.M on 04.13.12 at 12:57 am

The article confirms it, the going rate to rent a SFH in Toronto is $2500/ month; and the rate to rent a 2 bedroom apartment is $1500/month.

#98 renters rule on 04.13.12 at 12:59 am

looks like BPOE is off his meds again, the delusions are back and more severe.

#99 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 04.13.12 at 1:02 am

-
The confounded, confusing and conspiring Influence of the Frozen Beef Pie continues to drag humanity through the endless slop of fiscal dancing fairies. “Maybe they’re as dumb as we are. — Garth” — But that’s for next week.
*
Interesting column. Leads me to understand that if we ever decide to sell, lowball price first, get some HAM with dirty laundered money bidding against themselves to drive the price up, then take an adequate price and rent.

Then again, dreaming like that is fun!
*
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY! — “The CIA is not now nor has it ever been a central intelligence agency. It overthrows or supports foreign governments while reporting “intelligence” justifying those activities. Disinformation is a large part of its covert action responsibility, and the American people are the primary target of its lies.” — Ralph McGehee, former Career Intelligence Medal recipient officer of the CIA (1952 to 1977) and critic of the agency.” wrh.com.
*
Bernanke’s Destruction Right here on CNBC; Narcisstic BoA sues itself; Elite Preparing for mass uprisings; Gold Hide it when govts. lose control, and Concentration Camps being built in Greece; Mothercare Another chain shutting up shop in UK, and this; Asian timber boom Asia is replacing the US as a major importer, but Job Cuts with border guards and VA; Oz carbon tax killing economy; Dual Citizenship with double taxation; Scared Shitless Ordinary folk? No. TPTB. Average people have nothing left to lose; US unemployment up; Ghost Malls in China.

IMF and Gold; Chart Of The Day; Employment Stats from Greece. Good reason to build concentration camps (see link elsewhere); China’s GDP shrank a little; Warren Buffett Still profiting after all these years; Now, who is right? First time 4Closures hit 6 month high; BoA begins new sale of 4closed homes; Copper leads commodity gains; 1937 Caution (PDF); Black Market in Spain, bartering in Greece; Lock in the mortgage and lock up yer daughters!
*
2:22 clip ‘Quakes, space weather and more all shaking, rattling and rolling! Plus Iceland’s ‘canoes may power UK; US (via Soros) attempting new color revolution in Pakistan; Five Food Medicines Not from Monsanto; Syria West using Syria to get at China, Russia and Iran; ‘Net Censorship Going global; Smartphones With a new microchip in, they are very smart; Mutiny In The Gulf could have far reaching consequences; McDonald’s in Hospitals Improvement over hospital food?

4:46 clip Statin drugs, killing one cell at a time; Monsanto Farmer’s Market ordered to shut down on north shore of Oahu; Ruling Class of US intelligence; Brzezinski working for putin on the side? Think Fukushima is bad? Try the US; NY to LA Underground tunnel for trains with speeds of 10K mph; China Advancing military technology rapidly; Richard Branson Smoking Man, you are correct; Animal House How to get fired.

#100 Not 1st on 04.13.12 at 1:03 am

Hot asian student: “ring, ring, Hello China Central Planning? I am here in the land they call the GTA. The local hosers suspect nothing. What are your instructions? Over?”

CCP: “Your instructions are to purchase all foreign properties regardless of price”

Hot asian student: “understood”

CCP: “your service to your country is exemplary”

#101 John G. Young on 04.13.12 at 1:04 am

#78 neo on 04.12.12 at 11:56 pm

Sad to say, I did.

#102 DJB on 04.13.12 at 1:19 am

I can’t believe you gave Reed Harris any space on your blog. I have been to his kool aid real estate seminars in the past and was astounded at the drivel that his associated Chinese real estate lady from Edmonton was espousing to the crowd. She even had her own cheerleading newbies in attendance.

She was getting people in Vancouver to buy rental properties in Edmonton but she never did the proper net cash flow in her presentation. Just big numbers never a mention of property taxes or income taxes.

The best was her anecdote of buying a home that was listed for $280,000 and the seller accepting your offer of $270,000 and then telling you that you already made $10,000 just by buying it. How great is that, she would say getting her cheerleaders going almost religiously.

If you bought the place for $10,000 under asking you just did not make $10,000, you just set a new market price for that property.

Mr. Reed espouses professionalism but I was stunned to sit through his seminar and have one of his associates bamboozel the crowd. A real professional would have dis associated himself from false pretenses this particular real estate agent was asserting.

#103 Cowboy on 04.13.12 at 1:29 am

Smoking Man,

It would be a lot more interesting to hear stories about how much of a douche you are instead of how amazing you are. Just saying…
Man, would I hate to be stuck sitting beside you at a wedding. The ‘smoking man show’ would go on and on and on and on…

#104 bcpaul on 04.13.12 at 1:44 am

Looks like the author of this pathetic blog is back in politics. He is all over youtube as the leader of the NDP

#105 DonDWest on 04.13.12 at 1:50 am

Garth, I would say we have a lot to worry about.

When idiotic rich kids make silly purchases – I usually just laugh it off and find ways to make money off them. For example, if a rich kid wants to buy 20 Ferraris – this doesnt affect me the least bit.

However, when the rich kids decide to swap houses around like Pokémon cards at outlandish prices, and on top of that the Canadian government opens the flood gates to every idiotic rich kid world wide -we have a ripple effect. Simply put, those of us who have to work real jobs for a living actually have to live somewhere , and this becomes increasing more difficult when more and more space/resources are allocated to the rich playing this non-productive game.

The rich kids simply need to develop new hobbies that don’t hurt the rest of us. Rich people in the past used to trade cars and paintings, visit galleries and opera houses, and sip fine wine. If rich people returned back to these hobbies we would have a lot of businesses and jobs opening up. Instead, the rich kids bid up houses, pricing the rest of us out. In the long run this destroys every local business community outside of real estate.

It seems the Chinese government – of all governments – has the foresight to realize what’s at stake and is beginning to clamp down on their rich treating a house like a casino game. In an overpopulated country such as China; they can ill afford to allow the rich to play this silly game any longer.

Canada is now the only country in the world where the government has given open sanction to this monopoly board game – a board game with our very lives. We definitely have a lot to worry about. If history is any indication, when workers are displaced from the very communities they live/work in order to grant space for the rich to play games, violence soon follows. . .

#106 wayoutwest on 04.13.12 at 2:00 am

Say, $$$BPOE#1, do you live in TCONVD (the city with no vitamin D), the place with the WDON (worst drivers on earth), where TDDCTWT (they don’t drive cars, they wear them) and the home of WTMLL) (way too much lycra & latte)? Me too.

#107 Harlee on 04.13.12 at 2:01 am

#67 Form Man
Sorry…all the “strong Liberal feminists” in Saskatchewan left the province a few years ago. They’re all hived in areas of B.C. and maybe Ontario.
#80 furst
Chill out . Smoking Man is nothing but a Fiction called “Craig”. Thanks to his creator’s imagination he may seem real but is really not worth banging your head against a wall for. Honest.
The condo madness goes on in Scratchatoon: Elim Tabernacle church (1976) on 8th Street came tumbling down today. Remai to build 260 unit building on the site. Crazy,man…

#108 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 04.13.12 at 2:10 am

Canada the sh!t hole!

I can’t believe the Canadian public is not asking for the prime minister Stephen Harper to resign. If Peter McKay knew the real cost of the jets then so did Harper which is fraud and misrepresentation, if they were CEOs of companies they would be up on charges for lying.

Then there’s the election tampering and voting frauds.

How many more frauds and embezzlements are we going to allow this government to carry out? How many more Tony Clements are we going to let steal our money for Muskoka?

I don’t know about you but I’m leaving and the door will not hit me.

#109 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 04.13.12 at 2:22 am

With all the legalized thieves in Canada does anyone know where is the best country or region to locate a business? I’m thinking somewhere in Asia.

#110 Bobby on 04.13.12 at 2:26 am

Oh so Canadian. Many believe these real estate deals are astute overseas investors. No wonder many flock to Canada, we are so gullible and naive. So that shack sells in a year or two for half. They don’t care, it is now legitimate funds.
I recall when I lived in Asia a house sold down the street from me for the equivalent of 4+ million Canadian dollars. The top of the market. Problem was the buyer was a Colonel in the PLA in China with an official monthly salary of $500.
Kind of makes one wish we had the same investment adviser.

#111 The Real Jimbo on 04.13.12 at 2:30 am

#82… “Look at the people you know. How many are Chinese millionaires? How many are kids mortgaged out their ass?”

I guess it depends on where you live. Here in suburban Vancouver, I am surrounded by tens of thousands of wealthy Chinese and the only young Canadian people I see are delivering pizza and are destined to live in their parents’ basement for eternity.

Way to go Canada. If I ran things, offshore buying would end tomorrow… But of course, NOT wanting to sell out Canadian kids’ futures to rich offshore buyers is “racist” so I’m not allowed to voice my opinion in public without being considered to be a radical.

I wish Canadians would get it through their thick, politically-correct skulls that we not only have the right, but the duty, to put the best interests of Canadians first. Someone who opposes offshore buying isn’t a racist… he/she is a nationalist. And every country in the world is proudly populated by flag-waving nationalists.

#112 Blue Monster Lover of Meats and Vegetables on 04.13.12 at 3:04 am

Speaking of voter fraud, everyone has to see this, it’s not just a Canadian problem. I don’t think this democracy thing is working, we need a republic and limited government, so limited it’s almost useless since that is what they are. Useless thieves. It’s why fraud comes to them so naturally all in a days work.

This story’s unbelievable.

Brent Strafford, an American hero
“La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid”
“Vengeance is a dish best served cold.”

http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/brent-strafford-an-american-hero/

#113 NoName on 04.13.12 at 3:10 am

#36 Mark “the talk” Carney on 04.12.12 at 9:55 pm

HAM is buying properties down south to, good friend of mine have RE management co. and they have RE office, in Atlanta Ga. (gwinet/lorenc…/dulth) most of the bussines now days are short sales, and main customer is mainland chanise bussiness man/woman/student…
it is funny, how “we” think that HAM is only unique to Canada, only difference is SMART HAM is buying states side…where you can have tenant evicted with in 14 days from first NSF.

#114 NoName on 04.13.12 at 3:50 am

it was funny until it wasn’t anymore…

http://i40.tinypic.com/vpl354.jpg

#115 lol on 04.13.12 at 4:04 am

Garth, come on. BPOE’s comments are hilariously trollish. So trollish, that I may suspect you have been writing them? For you are quite the master at the art of rhetoricism. Or, really, does there exist such a maniacal troll that spews his vitrol on this pathetic blog daily? For if so, my faith in humanity may be forever lost. Sigh. Garth, please say it isn’t so.

#116 Dom_Now_in_Zürich on 04.13.12 at 4:50 am

Is this the future for Canada?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-12/ireland-s-bad-bank-transforms-debtors-into-landlords-mortgages.html

#117 betamax on 04.13.12 at 5:10 am

#28 Bond junkie: “…23 years and 600% later…”

Nothing like quoting bubble prices to justify bubble prices.

For the next 23 yrs to be like the past, we need another wealthy generation of breeders with appreciating incomes. Yah, that’ll happen.

#118 betamax on 04.13.12 at 5:14 am

#82 Poorgoisie: “Does anyone on here honestly think these Chinese millionaires are having more of an effect on housing prices than wide eyed kids looking at half a million dollars like it’s nothing?”

Bingo. Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious but isn’t, because it doesn’t fit the popular myth.

#119 Aussie Roy on 04.13.12 at 5:47 am

Aussie Headlines

Central banks can’t always control interest rates.

The ANZ has independently raised its rates by 6 basis points (0.06%) “reflecting continued pressures on the cost of deposits and wholesale funding”.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/04/reserve-bank-of-anz-raises-rates/

One thing that has kept borrowers interested in the mortgage market of late has been the keen pricing of fixed-rate loans. Through much of the September and December quarters last year, lenders followed the swap curve down and competed aggressively in making cuts to fixed rates.

The cycle turned in January when longer term swap rates started to move up. Since then fixed mortgage rates have been rising.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/04/fixed-rate-mortgages-rising/

#120 Battuta (a "beating") on 04.13.12 at 5:57 am

Set-up . . . “When did the orange guy raise his rate to 2%?” Garth’s punch line . . . “Intimate apparel rate.”

Hilarious!

#121 The real Kip on 04.13.12 at 6:08 am

I’ve used a mortgage broker and I think they are above the table, at least mine was. I had to provide 3-years Notice of Assessment and everything else before they would release the money.

#122 Bond junkie on 04.13.12 at 6:57 am

#81 bpoe- bang on man, Canada has changed, the world has changed and if you don’t adapt you’ll simply get run over.

SM- sure did, batman styles. Being super nimble tho Carney is pissed and je’s going to drop a bomb on this mkt before summer is over, mark my words.

#123 steev on 04.13.12 at 7:13 am

#65 Andrew

Your logic might hold if the house wasn’t three blocks away from yonge in the middle a SFH neighborhood.

Some homes do get turned into condos, some old rental houses just got torn down just west of Yonge and Eglinton.

Thing is, that condo will ON Eglinton, not three blocks in, and even these brilliant HAM investors are playing the long term condo game, if they get stuck with a renter who wants to live there until they are taken out in horizontal mode when a developer comes knocking, they’re screwed since laws here favour the tenant who they could never evict.

When you say “Like any big city non-rich people in Toronto will have to either live in condos, spend 2 hours a day driving on the 401 in rush hour or buy a house in the ghetto.”

You’re forgetting the 4th option, rent from idiot HAM investors. Save more money while living better off then you ever could before.

Cheers

#124 House on 04.13.12 at 7:43 am

Who say any of these people are “professionals”? Bet if I have a problem my only remedy would be the courts.

#125 househornyhousewife on 04.13.12 at 7:50 am

Garth,

Yesterday and today’s posts mention a common issue, that being real estate prices in the city vs real estate prices outside. It’s like two completely different worlds isn’t it ?

To this day I haven’t a clue why idiots are still continuing to pay heaps of cash for things like that ugly thing you showed in yesterday’s blog (the sister’s shanty town thingy).

It is quite true about having to pay ridiculous amounts to live in the city and people have a choice not to do so either by renting or by moving out of the city.

I don’t understand why people are wasting their time getting upset at these prices instead of simply refusing to be a part of it. I also don’t understand why people are angry at sellers who are managing to get up to 50% over asking price. I am quite certain that if they were in the same shoes, they would be doing the same thing (no honestly, I cannot take your hard earned money so just give me half of what you’re offering for my house and we’ll call it even .. are you kidding ?!). And as for their brokers … well, duh, they also want lots of money since this is what they DO.

That’s the way things are at the moment. Period. If you want own a gorgeous property but you still want the services (schools, post office, malls, grocery etc..), find a nice mid-sized town and start looking for work there. If you want the densified urban lifestyle, that hectic office job with the 24 hour smell of java and sweat and you cannot live anywhere else because beautiful flowers, trees and green grass flare up your allergies, then don’t be stupid, rent something nice in a trendy part of town and stop complaining about it. Who the hell wants to pay property tax on a property that is evaluated for 1 million but is actually worth $250,000 ???!! Honestly, who ?!

So walk to work in your expensive clothes and party in the clubs at night etc.., rent a place in town and buy yourself a beautiful cottage to escape to on weekends for a fraction of the cost it would cost you to buy a place in the city.

Life is full of choices so take advantage. Some people in this world cannot even find water to drink or feed and clothe themselves and here we are getting pissed off because we cannot afford a million dollar property. What the heck is going on here ?

HHHW

#126 Ann "Pom Pom" Rohmer on 04.13.12 at 7:59 am

Report: Corrupt Chinese Officials Take $123 Billion Overseas

The 67-page report from China’s central bank looks at where corrupt officials go and how they get their money out. A favored method is to squirrel cash away WITH THE HELP OF LOVED ONES EMIGRATING ABROAD, schemes that often depend on fake documents.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/06/16/report-corrupt-chinese-officials-take-123-billion-overseas/

Yes, crony capitalism at its best

Should China’s capital be renamed ‘Bling-jing’?

Hong Kong, China (CNN) – If you look at China’s annual National People’s Congress, now in session, you might think this country is one of the richest in the world.

The NPC’s 75 richest legislators – from a total of 3,000 – had a net worth of more than $90 billion in 2011. To put that in perspective, that’s more than half of Greece’s latest bailout of some $170 billion.

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/12/should-chinas-capital-be-renamed-bling-jing/

This Toronto bungalow sold for $421,800 over asking. Yes, really

In this case the successful bidder is a university student originally from China with family money behind her, says Mr. Adelson. She assured the agents there would be no problem in closing the deal.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/buying-and-selling/this-toronto-bungalow-sold-for-421800-over-asking-yes-really/article2362078/

#127 Sky on 04.13.12 at 8:15 am

SE Asian Expat – # 64

You’re the lucky beneficiary of the differential between Balinese currency and the western dollar/euro.

It’s like winning the lottery only far more evil in that countless countries have been crushed and their citizens left to bleed out under the FOREX jackboot.

Our masters simply love currency arbitrage.

You posed a number of interesting questions in your post.

“Question #2 Should I feel guilty that I could easily afford 30 years in retirement in balmy weather, eating healthy food, with inexpensive domestic help, and minimal (property) taxes when locals cannot?”

SHOULD you feel guilty? You raise this question a lot in your post, but I suspect it’s a trick question. Admit it. You already DO feel guilty.

How much retirement time or property would you be able to purchase if you were paid in LOCAL currency for your job? Is/was your work that much more valuable than the Balinese working their butts off just to put food on the table?

I think you know the answer to that and it has you feeling a little uncomfortable. There’s always a fly in the ointment… even in paradise.

Yoga’s great and will keep you humble enough so the locals don’t have to call you bwana or sahib. The world has enough bwanas.

“Question #4 Is what I’m doing different from HAM buying Canadian property?”

Absolutely different. You are exploiting an almost 10 to 1 currency advantage in Bali. That’s why you can live like a king while the locals struggle.

When the Chinese buy Canadian/American RE they pay in dollars. And a yuan isn’t worth much more than 15 cents. But they’re STILL able to afford multi-million DOLLAR RE. Figure that one out. If you dare.

#128 Diana on 04.13.12 at 8:26 am

I drank the Kool-Aid.

Recently bought a house in Winnipeg. I used both a realtor and a mortgage broker to do it, and was pleasantly surprised by the process and the people I dealt with.

The broker was professional and offered me a choice of mortgages with explanations on the differences between them, and when I asked him about his fees, was quite frank about how his payment schedule worked.

The realtor was firmly in my camp, and actually talked me into dropping my initial offer by $10k on the house we bought. (Which we then got it for)

I do want to thank Garth, the blog, and the blog dogs for helping educate (and entertain) me on the 2 years I saved to get to this point. The information I found here certainly changed my expectations and what I was searching for in the house hunt.

Five years down the road at renewal will tell me if I’ve done this right or not, or in the words of Job from Arrested Development; “I’ve made a terrible mistake.”

#129 Mark "the talk" Carney on 04.13.12 at 8:51 am

HAM has very little effect on housing price due to very few HAM. Fascist CHMC is 100% reason why prices are where they are. Come on realtors/bankers ask for the fascist conservatives to allow the free markets to price risk. You fascist supporters know very well rates would be higher as well as downpayments. Bankers and realtors are fascists since they hate free markets like the fascist conservatives. Free markets would cause a 50% overnight drop in prices as BAM (borrowed Asian money) or HAM like the fascist criminal liars like to call them would be powerless to stop the crash. Much like they were powerless to stop the US housing market from crashing . The US housing market is still crashing..why isn’t HAM buying up the whole US? Why would HAM buy one house in Canada when they can buy two in the US. Chicago is cheaper then Toronto and a much better city. Chicago makes Toronto look like a ghetto. All this Ham talk is bs. The real issue is allowing the free market to price in risk. Canadians think they are free?

#130 buylow on 04.13.12 at 9:05 am

been a long time since there have been pictures of breasts

#131 Daisy Mae on 04.13.12 at 9:21 am

“Based on the purchase price (including land transfer tax) of $1,219,800 that gives a return of 1.96%….”

**********************

And which level of government receives the land transfer tax — the feds?

#132 MarcFromOttawa on 04.13.12 at 9:29 am

#90 Sherry Cooper

Arrete tes conneries. C’est evident, tu ne sais pas de quoi tu parles.

#133 disciple on 04.13.12 at 9:50 am

I wouldn’t touch housing with a ten-foot pole right now. I don’t buy the argument that real estate is local. The power of the MLS soundly refutes that in my opinion. Diana, you’ve made a terrible mistake, I’m sorry.

So many of you don’t understand the madness surrounding the phenomenon of wide-eyed young (or old) people that would not think twice about indenturing themselves with enormous debt loads more than half a million dollars. It’s simple mind control. It’s a logical arc that explains so many things in life. And those who are able to wield this power are your real rulers. What surprises me, though, is that most of you on this blog think that this obvious evidence of mind control is limited simply to housing.

My landlord is subsidizing my occupation of his house. I suppose he is banking on the expectation of a capital gain. I do feel sorry for him, but what do you do when he, like other mind-controlled RE speculators, just are not able to see what’s coming? It’s a virtual guarantee that they will never see it, and for me, that is the real power of mind control in action.

#134 The American on 04.13.12 at 9:55 am

At #68: TaxHaven, I disagree. The Chinese who have purchased in areas like Vancouver or even here in the U.S., such as Seattle, have been flipping these houses over and over and over to one another, driving up the price each time the flip ensues. This is not a market by which someone is merely purchasing a home as shelter to live in, but instead is viewing the house on a speculative level in hopes the value continues to skyrocket.

#135 Ret on 04.13.12 at 10:08 am

Do landlords pay income tax on rents?
None of the slumlords around MixMaster U pay any income tax on their rents from student rental properties.

No pictures of the inside of 300 Dudley in the ad. That says it all.

Rental income is fully taxable as earned income. Not declaring it is tax evasion, which is criminal activity. — Garth

#136 Gypsy Kid on 04.13.12 at 10:11 am

I’m sure the CONS are fully aware that foreign investors are “playing” with Canadian real-estate…how tragic for the regular Canadian. We’re so complacent as a nation though; we’re so addled with cheap credit we’re letting the Feds do whatever they want…religion isnt the opium for the masses. It’s cheap credit. I dont think we’ll be waking up soon…

#137 TaxHaven on 04.13.12 at 10:15 am

#88 This is Wonderland: they’re not buying “investments” at all – they are buying a consumable in short supply. And $1m is chump change to many of them.

#134 The American: are they REALLY Chinese straight from overseas? Or are they established Chinese-Americans or second-generation Chinese-Americans? I doubt the former are very interested in coming 10,000 miles to play speculative games with housing…

The latter, however…of course.

#138 Dontcallmeshirley on 04.13.12 at 10:20 am

To Reed the Mortgage Broker,

Could you enlighten on two points:

1. With whom do you write most of your deals, chartered banks, credit unions, mono-lines, other?

2. In what scenario can a broker earn a trailer / fee on a HELOC? Is this possible at all?

#139 Smoking Man on 04.13.12 at 10:24 am

Best Post of the Year goes to:

#125 househornyhousewife on 04.13.12 at 7:50 am

So walk to work in your expensive clothes and party in the clubs at night etc.., rent a place in town and buy yourself a beautiful cottage to escape to on weekends for a fraction of the cost it would cost you to buy a place in the city.

……………………………………………

Now that’s thinking :)

House Wives just don’t get enough credit

#140 Beach Girl on 04.13.12 at 10:27 am

#68 renters rule on 04.12.12 at 11:12 pm

BEACH GIRL YOU ROCK

#96 John G. Young on 04.13.12 at 12:55 am

#63 Beach Girl on 04.12.12 at 11:03 pm

Glad the surgery went well.

Enjoy your clear vision — something that others on this blog (who shall go unnamed) could use…

___

I am so happy. Getting a new roof this year, before I open the pool. Will have a new raft of unwed fathers. Now, I am saving up for the mini face lift. I feel like a million bucks. Thanks to my supporters.

Met Caspar, the doctor at the Superstore. He said it looked great.

Now, this man has more intimate details about me than any lover. He has had cameras inserted up my ass, cameras down my throat. CATs MIRs and he said there is nothing wrong with me. Low body fat. BP perfect.

I told him, I want to go the June Callwood way. My personal hero. She died of cancer and was glad to know she had limited time to end a fulfilling life.

He said what would you do? I said I would live a life of debauchery. He said he thought I was already doing that.

My bestie, said, even you couldn’t catch an STD, no one wants you fultime. LOL.

#141 Smoking Man on 04.13.12 at 10:29 am

To add to
125 househornyhousewife on 04.13.12 at 7:50 am

You don’t need to buy a car, you can get weekend rentals to go back and forth for 8 bucks a day with entreprise, put it on a premuim credit card and no insurance needed either.

What a brilliant Idea she had.

Blog Dods please bow to househornyhousewife

#142 John Prine on 04.13.12 at 10:49 am

#89 Tim on 04.13.12 at 12:30 am
“A stupider bunch has not run Canada in a long time.”
Cuts to the food inspection agency, cuts to CBC, cuts to Ministry of Environment, cuts to border services, lies about true cost of F-35s, withholds information on F-35s, didn’t have the balls to adjust the MPs bloated pensions, but continues to screw the middle class, robo calls used to steal the election, pro-rouged parliament twice, kissing ass to the Americans…too bad most Canadians are either ignorant or too lazy to protest and make their opinions known to their MPs
—————————————————————-
Pretty strong statement but I would have trouble finding anybody that would argue your points. On the positive side, they are successful in getting all the illegal money from China and aren’t putting any constraints on that!

If one doesn’t like what their government is doing, WRITE YOUR MP………It takes a few minutes and is what democracy is all about. If enough of you make your concerns known you can bring change

#143 Wage Slave on 04.13.12 at 10:56 am

64 SE Asian Expat on 04.12.12 at 11:08 pm:

Are you seriously looking for ethical clarity on an anonymous internet message board? Go to all the yoga classes you want, but if you can’t figure this one out on your own, your karma’s already f-cked beyond repair.

(Sky @ #127 has it exactly right–great post.)

#144 Mikey the Realtor on 04.13.12 at 10:58 am

DELETED

#145 Wage Slave on 04.13.12 at 11:01 am

Just when you think the MSM is starting to get it:

http://www.thegridto.com/life/real-estate/in-your-earning-years-consider-a-condo/

#146 Sky on 04.13.12 at 11:11 am

@ Bill Gable – “The 9.0 Earthquke that is overdue will level the playing field. We plan to be out of here, and watch the mess from afar.”

************************

http://www.globaldisasterwatch.blogspot.ca/

#147 Poorgoisie on 04.13.12 at 11:13 am

Was the taco bell dog “mind controlling” people into buying tacos? check the bloodlines on that dog too and you’ll find that none other than Edward “fast eddy” Rothschild created the chihuahua using DNA from Queen Elizabeth III (you didn’t know there were 3? The real second one became the second Paul McCartney) and a golden retriever named Arian Brude, who you may better know as the great grandfather of “air bud”.
Well maybe we can just call it marketing (it’ll keep the KGB off our back… The real KGB)

#148 NoName on 04.13.12 at 11:29 am

http://m.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/the-american-century-in-spending-100-years-in-the-life-of-the-family-budget/255475/

” The 100-year story of how a nation that feels poor got rich”

#149 gladiator on 04.13.12 at 11:35 am

Aaaaand, here’s why Smoking Man is right in something – he’s been saying this for a long time now. Remember his advice to say to your reflection in the mirror “you’re the best and greatest” for a month and then you’ll see that it works? I do, and this article is proof that it actually works!
Enjoy.

http://www.workopolis.com/content/advice/article/2178-what-you-can-learn-from-the-jerks-at-work

#150 AG Sage on 04.13.12 at 11:51 am

>#46 TaxHaven on 04.12.12 at 10:03 pm

17,000 Chinese who absconded from the country from 2000 to 2007 with nearly 200 billion in US equivalent dollars . . . were bureaucrats.

#151 GregW, Oakville on 04.13.12 at 12:12 pm

Hi #99 Nostra, Thanks for the link on Statin drugs, interesting. (see link to alternative below, FYI.)

I too felt like crap when taking statin! Then stopped and feel much much better. (seems Statin’s have F in them too, but I won’t go there.)

My neighbor Maynard found this other stuff, and so far I feel much better and my HDL LDL #’s are better too.

Maynard had Prostate cancer, Now gone!
(Was told to do chemotherapy (He didn’t) or be dead in a year. He’s still very much here!) He also has had heart attack damage, now heart like an athlete. He does bicycle around a lot! He Dr’s are amazed to say the least. (I even learned my Dentist is taking it and feels he has more energy.)

It helps your bodies blood flow so your body can help it self, it seems.
FYI: http://www.icansaveaheart.com

#152 Mira on 04.13.12 at 12:36 pm

Garth, have a read if you have a minute. It is a little nauseating.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/buying-and-selling/high-rollers-rolling-back-into-oakville/article2399762/
What will happen to Oakville home prices?

It is not different in Oakville. — Garth

#153 OttawaRenter on 04.13.12 at 12:40 pm

#82 furst on 04.13.12 at 12:01 am
Is what I’m experiencing normal? When I read Smoking Man’s posts, I get infuriated. Like really really angry. So angry in fact that I’m going to bang my head against the wall. AARRGGGGH.
______________________________________

…….so stop reading them. I have, as I think half the readers here have done, as well.

#154 Smoking Man on 04.13.12 at 12:51 pm

Sure ottawarenter

You my friend are a track 6er. What is that you ask? At union station the 12:43 westbound train. The sign says train is boarded on track six. So hundreds of people shuffle up throught on enterence. But the train comes from the east and the doors open first on track 5

Appart from me and maybey 5 other people on track 5 the hundreads of others are on track 6

The obident herd that can’t think

#155 Keith on 04.13.12 at 12:51 pm

Wow. So many racist comments on here. So just because they’re rich, their wealth is surely ill-gotten? Wow. Just wow.

My rule is simple. Never attribute to malice what you can to incompetence. I’m with Garth on this. All this story shows is that rich foreigners are as likely to overpay as locals with access to large mortgages.

I wish Garth would speak more to racism that’s prevalent among real estate bears. It’s scary stuff. And has shades of the attitudes that were prevalent among Canadians during World War II. How is it that most assume that the Chinese neighbour who moves next door is automatically some Guangdong gangster laundering his cash, rather than some poor Chinese immigrant family who is simply trying to keep up with the Joneses (his white neighbours) by overleveraging himself?

Anyone savvy to make millions, even if they are ill-gotten is not stupid enough to risk losing it all in the casino that might be Canadian Real Estate market today. They have options. They can buy real estate anywhere in the world. And while some may choose to buy in Canada, I sincerely doubt they are driving any Canadian city’s real estate market.

#156 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 04.13.12 at 12:58 pm

FRIDAY THE 13TH FOR HOUSING…YUCK

One should make periodic sweeps past the ‘oftwominds’ website for its careful analysis of things economic.

Today’s offering suggests the American housing market is DEAD.

Check out these tantalizing words then take a look at the rest of the story on their site:

“Charting the Housing Market (April 13, 2012)
By a number of measures the housing market has not recovered.
I asked frequent contributor Chartist Friend from Pittsburgh to apply his technical insights to the housing market. His charts and observations are illuminating:

I’ve looked at the charts a little further, and the pattern that emerges is this: fatal collapse – attempt at resuscitation – imminent reading of the last rites.
In technical terms that would translate to “a” wave breakdown (in most cases to new lows), “b” wave correction/pullback to previous support neckline, then “c” wave to lower lows.

It saddens me to have to report that, even with mortgage rates at historic lows, the American housing market is dead.”

If so then what will it take to stick a final fork in our market(s)? Since real estate is regional here, are some areas therefore exempt from monetary reality while others are not? And what does it matter? Not a whit until the fat chick sings (higher interest rates come a knockin’).

Arguments for return to sanity just keep going round and round, AND NOTHING HAPPENS!

With that in mind what will it take for Mr. Carney to get off his duff and actually do something?

CRATERING EUROPE

I hope he spends sone of his weekend going over:

–the troubling growth figures out of China;

–the price of CDS inssurance on Spanish debt;

–the cost of Spanish debt;

–the tanking of stock markets in the following places: France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portgual, UK, all of Scandinavia, and all of Eastern Bloody Europe!

AND WE’RE HOLIER THAN THOU?

And Canada is exempt from all of that and the fact that the US deficit and debt are biting into future tax collections going out about the next five freakin’ generations of Yanks?

BROKERS…DUBIOUS

Garth, it was mighty kind of you to allow that mortgage broker to have his turn on your site. I’ll NEVER do business with one of those characters EVER.

You’ve done worthy service here young man.

#157 Smoking Man on 04.13.12 at 1:01 pm

Gladiator I right about everything please some out me with a prediction on here. Its not going to happen. Why those who might be dedicated to find something are the don’t feed the troll types the rest just don’t give a crap so by vertue I win

#158 Riding the Pine on 04.13.12 at 1:09 pm

#116 Dom_Now_in_Zürich

Any help out there to understand this article?
Ireland overbuilt, people are drowning in debt, and homes are sitting empty. How could rental rates be increasing in this situation, as the article states? Shouldn’t the opposite be happening?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-12/ireland-s-bad-bank-transforms-debtors-into-landlords-mortgages.html

#159 scib on 04.13.12 at 1:12 pm

Fluffy soft, protected, warm and fuzzy Canadians. We have been protected by our good government since the day we were born.
We have no idea how hard core our HAM friends are. To the posters who called money laundering on these immigrants. In many perhaps half of the cases that is a good call.
These are people who come from a country that kills babies by poisoning milk with melamine in order to fool the protein test and get a higher price for milk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal
Then after hanging a number of the perps. A year later they were caught doing it again!
We soft touch Canadians have no idea of the layers of deceit these people are driven to.

#160 Just Say No on 04.13.12 at 1:13 pm

renters need to be able to claim their rent for small credit of coarse just to stop the illegal rent for owners mortgage?It is true that most mortgage holders (with suite) feel it is thier free cash and easy money for doing nothing….it would also lower the house value because there is no more free money. There are those that play by the rules but the door is so open to those that don’t.

#161 Nixon Fault on 04.13.12 at 1:22 pm

In 1971 Nixon de-linked dollar and gold and party began. Carney and F just have no means or brains to stop it in Canada.

Today’s Canada looks like a huge joyful Boeing airplane flying over the ocean with ending fuel…where pilots and passengers keep partying and could not care less.

#162 zeeman1 on 04.13.12 at 1:36 pm

#49 Smoking Man.

So your kid makes 6 figures selling alarm systems door-to-door?

You are officially full of sh*t, but still an entertaining read.

You may want your little idiot to fess up about how much he really makes.

#163 Bill Gable on 04.13.12 at 1:43 pm

Blase, the property on Maui is owned by a friend, who cut us a deal. Frat Brother, so, I would rather not blow his cover. His neighbors are already freaking out. The place is just above Airport Beach, near Ka’anapali. He tried VRBO, and got tired of schmucks leaving the home in a mess.
Also, my thanks about the post on permits, in our nightmare upstairs.
I just phoned the Vancouver engineering Department, and they are on it.
Most grateful for your help.
The maroon that tried combing the three suites, is the guy that invented Gorilla Glass. He has bought RE in 7 countries.
There is also a sneaking supicion that more than a few of the suites in this Building are owned by, ahem, folks that have been playing fast and slick.
Checking the trade and GDP numbers in China, and the arrest if Mr. Bo, there is trouble afoot in the middle kingdom.
Once again, China is about to implode. They are always wanting the USA first, but since we Canadians are so lax, they cone here and park their, alleged, ill gotten gains.

I spent a long time in China, and know the coast and Beijing as well as most Gwailos, and believe me, you are not getting the whole story. There are daily demonstrations and a lot of angry citizens.

Look out….because it is going to, IMHOP, going to be a disaster.

OZ and Canada, that have been feeding the Commodity beast, are going to feel enormous pain.

#164 Junius on 04.13.12 at 1:44 pm

#155 Keith,

I agree that the racist comments are both sad and unwarranted. However the issues are more complex than that. There is an excellent response to the situation in Vancouver published in the Vancouver Courier. If it has already been posted here I apologize but here it is again:

http://www.vancourier.com/Reader+Soapbox+Concern+about+foreign+Chinese+buyers+Vancouver+based+facts/6442525/story.html

There are also a few other legitimate issues that do remain unaddressed. The first is that there clearly is a lot of dirty money that makes its way into Canada. I understand that we are generally seen as far more lax on issues relating to the origins of funds and back ground checks then other nations. It is not just China but we have for years attracted unsavoury characters from all over the Globe including drug lords and arms dealers.

Underlying all of this remains an implicit belief that the attraction of wealth, any wealth, must be a good thing. However we are clearly seeing a situation where bad money is starting to drive out average working people, entrepreneurs and investment. We have exchanged a long term approach to building prosperity for a temporary cash injection.

#165 Bill Gable on 04.13.12 at 1:46 pm

Apologies for my crummy Iphone typing. They just called my flight, so I was in a hurry. I can actually spell. Fat fingers, aside.

#166 Junius on 04.13.12 at 1:50 pm

#83 BPOE,

You said, “The other choice for the Canadian is to take on a huge debt load and ride the wave upward.”

I go away for a few weeks but I see you don’t change your tune. Scary, scary advice. You are clueless.

#167 tkid on 04.13.12 at 2:02 pm

renters need to be able to claim their rent This is definitely already on the tax forms. It is part of the Ontario section if I remember right.

#168 99% on 04.13.12 at 2:05 pm

Chinese people live and breathe money. Everything they do is about making money. They covet it, and don’t give a damn about anything else. It’s without doubt that buying real estate in Canada is about making money. They have been flipping real estate to each other the last few years. It’s not about finding shelter or integrating into Canadian society. It’s a ponzi scheme that is about making money. They will not lose one second of sleep that their actions will devastate the local economy or cause the next generation any hardships. This isn’t racism, it is fact. Their ideals have been passed from generation to generation. But Canadians shouldn’t take it personally, the don’t discriminate. The Chinese have been buying in US, UK, and anywhere they can. It’s up to Canadians to say “we don’t want your money.” But I don’t think we want it to end. Why would we say no when someone wants to give you $1m for a doghouse crackshack in Ditchman BC? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

#169 Pr on 04.13.12 at 2:09 pm

M Flaherty, M Carney and M harper, you may want to read this!
***Iceland Forgives Mortgage Debt for the Population.They are putting the bankers and politicians on the “Bench of the Accused.” …

http://www.infowars.com/iceland-forgives-mortgage-debt-for-the-population/

#170 VanLarry on 04.13.12 at 2:10 pm

Aww, you went easy on the “female Chinese student”.

I estimated she would be getting $15,000 per year when I heard about the $2500 per month rent. I threw in maintenance, insurance, etc,.

#171 Saskatoon Housing Bubble on 04.13.12 at 2:10 pm

I did some fooling around with the average wage, average house prices over the years to see how long it would take to pay off a mortgage.

In 1997, it took over 4.5 years for the average hourly wage to buy the average house in Canada. In 2011, it took almost 7.5 years.
http://tinyurl.com/cl4wkan

Of course this does not take into account that we don’t buy a home with gross income but net income. And because people get a mortgage, there are interest rate costs throughout the life of the mortgage. So I used a 25 year amortization at a fixed rate of 6.3%. 6.3% is the average posted fixed rate over the last 15 years.

Using net income and a 25 year mortgage at an average rate of 6.3%, the years it takes for the average wage earner to buy an average home in Canada jumps from 12 years in 1997 to 20 years in 2011.
http://tinyurl.com/7pq7tl7

Hours of work to pay off a mortgage jumps from 26,000 in 1997 to over 40,000 in 2011
http://tinyurl.com/7bew998

Now some people will say that interest rates are lower at the moment so the hours and years to actually pay off a mortgage will not be as high as the last two graphs show. True, but it is not out of the question for interest rates to rise and a interest rate of 6.3% is definitely in the “normal” range. And on the other hand, I did not include maintenance, property taxes, insurance which runs the monthly cost of an average house at least $600 a month in most jurisdictions in Canada. So the true cost of a home over 25 years for today’s highly leveraged buyers ( using average wage and average house price) could be in the neighborhood of 50,000 hours of work. Somebody who works 40 hours a week from age 18 to age 65 will work 97760 hours. So for a highly leveraged buyer of today, you better love your house and your job for many hours and years to come.

#172 disciple on 04.13.12 at 2:11 pm

#159 scib… evil knows no nationality. Look at how our fantasy wonderland in North America is orchestrated with TV special effects. CGI. Dreamworks. Faked, staged news events with media complicity, like the Citizenship Ceremony, remember?

http://septemberclues.info/wtc_collapses.htm

#173 Dontcallmeshirley on 04.13.12 at 2:19 pm

Garth, since you were “behind the curtain” up there in Ottawa for a slice of time perhaps you can comment on OSFI’s May 1 deadline for comment on their new guidelines?

OSFI set aside a month for submission of comment. This isn’t enough time to assemble and make a thoughtful case. Therefore the deadline is merely for appearances and the guidelines are a foregone conclusion?

I intimated as much when they were first published a month ago. — Garth

#174 truth hammer on 04.13.12 at 2:27 pm

Ever wonder why your taxes are so high…..look no furhter than the righteous entrenched Liberals in ‘public service’ whose virtue takes precedence over taxpayers rights.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/13/full-comment-forum-the-shame-and-indignity-or-earning-17-an-hour/

We’re observing the ‘shame and indignity’ of a few elite civil servants who can’t stop themselves from giving Canadian heritage away to anyone else. Nice thing they are so well taken of with indexed pensions eh?

You are tedious. — Garth

#175 Raging Ranter on 04.13.12 at 2:28 pm

Speculation or money-laundering? It was billed as the former, but is starting to look suspiciously like the latter.

#176 Just Say No on 04.13.12 at 2:43 pm

renter, B.C. income tax return does not allow this tax credit?

#177 Just Say No on 04.13.12 at 2:53 pm

people in BC do not play by the rules that is why they have to prepay for gas at the pumps………claiming rental income would kill the housing market instantly.

#178 Steven Rowlandson on 04.13.12 at 3:01 pm

It seems I over looked a spelling error. Never the less I’ve seen worse at some chat rooms…
Those who think that because I missed a spelling error that I will cease being opposed to homosexuals and their fans for are mistaken.

Nobody cares, about your typos or prejudices. Move on. — Garth

#179 Dontcallmeshirley on 04.13.12 at 3:08 pm

I intimated as much when they were first published a month ago. — Garth

———-

Okay, fair enough. Since you are familiar with the actors and their minds’ workings, is there potential for Julie Dickson et al to be so dis-enchanted by obstinate industry feedback that the guidelines are made even more stringent?

Unlikely. I told the deniers on this blog that the power and resolve of the banking regulator should never be doubted. — Garth

#180 steev on 04.13.12 at 3:25 pm

#66 SE Asian Expat
My thoughts:

1: So long as you intend to live in and enjoy the property no, your presence there should have a trickle-down effect that helps the local economy.

2: If you feel like you are taking advantage, and you can afford it, why not give back? I’m sure if you offered financial help to said community they would have a worthy project in mind, heck you might even get to cut a ribbon or two.

3: See 2

4: It’s not speculation if you live there. I would have no problems with neighbors from the HAM…thing is don’t exist for the most part.

#181 Mike on 04.13.12 at 3:28 pm

So I’m reading a lot of ppl assume this Dudley Ave house must be a laundromat…. What about if it’s some way to hedge against inflation or deflation of some currency? Maybe these Chinese see the CDN$ as being super stable, and they all know something we don’t know about the Chinese Yuan??? Maybe they don’t give a damn if prices drop 10, 20, 50% in the next few years b/c they think their yuan’s are going to lose more value than that. I don’t know… Just thinking outloud really.

#182 Fisc on 04.13.12 at 3:59 pm

Canadian household Mortgage debt bubble continue to reach quick but Ottawa is now scared to tighten CMHC rules:

“I’m actually encouraged that the market itself is showing some correction,” Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said while visiting Alberta Thursday. “We’re not seeing so much of that in Toronto, but in Vancouver, yes. And overall we’ve seen some moderations, some softening in the residential market and I think that is a good thing.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/flaherty-sees-softening-in-housing-market/article2400653/

Crazy country…

#183 Buying the citizenship by investing in a rental property!!!! on 04.13.12 at 4:02 pm

I believe the incentive of a foreign buyer to buy in Canada is that they are considered business owners and if they “invest” more than 400K they get the permanent resident card. So basically they are buying their citizenship.

Buying a property and renting it is considered a business in our country. So maybe that is why the Asians are doing this even if they loose money on that property!

Garth you should look into this, and if it is 100% true, Canadians should wake up and do something about it before it is too late.

#184 Regan on 04.13.12 at 4:15 pm

A note about the xenophobic comments like “chinese peope live and breathe money” – well, it was Canada who decided to change our immigration priorities and get rid of those pesky refugees seeking refuge from poverty, oppression, torture or war. We limited those applicants to almost nothing and sped up access for people who bring us money. Lots of money. From wherever they’ve managed to make it. So, where we were previously drawing regular people fleeing totalitarian regimes we are now welcoming people who’ve been busy making money, sometimes in the most questionable of ways. You want to talk about who “lives and breathes money” – look in the mirror.

#185 Don on 04.13.12 at 4:30 pm

#133 Disciple

Younger people grew up in this boom and it is only natural that they think it will continue forever. I have a young sis in law that states interest rates will never go up… her friend at the bank told her so. Most young people like Diane? will wait for a period of time and see that nothing has changed (too dam impatient) “Well I waited for almost two years and prices are still going up and I need to get in before it goes up any further” I hear this all the time.

Remember, a couple of years to a youth seems like an eternity. To all you younger folks, try 30-40 years paying for the same over inflated debt. I expect divorce rates will edge higher just as they did after the boom times of the 70’s and the ensuing higher interest rates.

Patience and prior historical knowledge is lost on the young as wisdom is often lost on the old. Of course this is a generalization but still so very true.

Every generation believes they are somewhat unique and to a small degree they are as the environment changes and it is your surroundings that shape your opinions and beliefs. But in the larger picture human nature remains the same. The ones who seek out the baseline truth will not enter this market, I could care less if it takes four more years to correct, casue correct it will and I would rather buy a 200K house at 5 – 18 % then a 500k+ house at 3-4%. Soon I will vulch, patiently the vultures wait, they welcome opportunity but sit and wait.

Diane sell now – hopefully you can encourage a bidding war – get some profit rent and wait for the inevitable drop. Moving is not an inconvience and only takes a day or two. Heaven forbid it should get in the way of doing something truly important.

Smoking man…why would your wife suspect the painted logo on your fence as being gang related in retaliation for reading this blog, why would they go after one of their customers. lol. Oh yah I forgot political parties are also gangs.

#186 Smoking Man on 04.13.12 at 4:33 pm

Zeemen. I looked at his T4A. With current volumn might hit 200 k by year end. He also flys out to differnt centers every second week to train others to be a smoking man G note every time he does that. And he started in Nov 2011. He has what’s called a real education

#187 Dan in Victoria on 04.13.12 at 4:35 pm

Bill Gable @163
Ah yes, Mr. Bo
That is a very good tidbit.
I wonder how Mr. Heywoods murder will play out in all this.
There is definately a power struggle occuring.
Glad someone else follows it also.

#188 Alex N Calgary on 04.13.12 at 4:41 pm

I’m so sick of reading articles that talk about how careful Canadians are with their borrowing, like americans are the biggest moron hillbillies ever, and Canada is a country full of educated, careful people, never overspending and cautious of financial trends….

NOT

Everyone I know here in Calgary is Ballz to the Wallz in house financing, we’ll all get RICH, value’s will skyrocket, OMG we should get an investment property immediatly!!!! Besides you heard AB is a non-recourse province right? who cares!

WildRose party is looking to get into office, good gravy why do I live here? sigh and sigh again, its not a bad place to live, but the ignorance, maybe its the same ontario? I dunno feels pretty bad…

#189 Coraline on 04.13.12 at 4:58 pm

tkid, others re declaration of rental income. It is true that renters can claim their rent for a tax credit (at least in Ontario); however, if the renter makes anything over a poverty wage, there is no credit. Therefore, the renter won’t file for it and no one will know about the landlord’s income.

I’m with JustSayNo. I always thought of this as another gift from the government to property owners. Some owners do claim the income, but many do not. Many directly order the tenants not to declare it, and they’ll give them cash in lieu of the credit. Sure it’s illegal, but so are 90% of the basement suites in this country.

#190 Junius on 04.13.12 at 5:06 pm

#188 Alex,

Amen. I just spent 2 weeks in Europe on business. Things range from not too bad (Germany) to pretty bad (France and the Netherlands) to horrid (Spain). If Canadians don’t think the slow down globally is going to impact them they have another thing coming.

No one outside of Canada can understand why we would put our faith in housing. No one. They think we are insane and the notion that we are conservative or smarter is quickly ridiculed.

#191 Westernman on 04.13.12 at 5:20 pm

Beach Girl @ # 140,
Are you EVER going to post ANYTHING that makes even the slightest bit of sense?
You ramble on like a drunk who mixed her meds with Vodka…
You really need to see a shrink – and take Herbie and Form Man with you, maybe you can get a group discount…

#192 jess on 04.13.12 at 5:23 pm

The wheat from the chaff and the lean from the fat

pink slime : green slime
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/04/green-slime-drives-our-financial-crises.html#comments

#193 zeeman1 on 04.13.12 at 5:23 pm

#186 Smoking Man.

If that’s the case I’m going to start selling stuff door to door. Who the hell buys anything, product or service, from someone selling door-to-door? How can that salesperson be selling something valuable enough to generate 6 figures/year salary/commission, and what company do they work for?

For any sales person in any industry to generate 6 figures or more they would have to be selling at least 1 – 2 million/year gross. How does that happen from someone selling alarm systems door-to-door?

BTW, I fully agree with your assessments of our education system – A result of my old man warning me when I got crappy grades that those that play the game were rewarded according to the rules of the game. He left it up to me to decide if the game was worth playing, and didn’t try to make me play it because he knew how BS most classroom education is.

#194 Onthesidelines on 04.13.12 at 5:39 pm

@ #66 South East Asian Expat

I don’t know about feeling guilty, but I would advise that you do give some thought to security.

I food friend had a similar set up in Phuket and got robbed and broken into enough times to call it quits eventually.

Make the wealth gap wide enough and this issue will surface anywhere, even in Canada dare I say.

#195 John on 04.13.12 at 5:48 pm

#28 Uki:

“#4 Mark “the talk” Carney on 04.12.12 at 8:36 pm
Who goes in a bidding war to have a cash flow negative property? ”

Dirty money.
————————-

Mark Carney is no more responsible for the real estate led financial meltdown of Canada than Mario “three card” Monte is responsible for the unfolding take down of Italy. A technocrat with ego and political skills would simply be replaced by another technocrat if he wasn’t pushing funny money and fake “public interest” objectives.

As soon as the Canadian society decided to use slave labour for rampant consumption, they were agreeing to the whole thing. That’s been going on for years. A lot of the real estate entitlement attitude is built on that…and other parts of the ponzi machine.

How ridiculous is it to be talking about politicians and technocrats when trying to understand a crappy house being sold for 1.2 million.

The odd thing is many people are still believing in “selective sustainability”. 27% of the GDP can have it’s stilts knocked out, but supposedly the country won’t go into a depression. Magical thinking. If I wanted to believe that fantasy, why would I bother analysing or worrying about real estate? Why not pretend that’s going to “soft land” or “go down”. It makes the entire fairy tale a lot easier to remember.

#196 betamax on 04.13.12 at 5:59 pm

#163 Bill Gable: “there is trouble afoot in the middle kingdom. Once again, China is about to implode…There are daily demonstrations and a lot of angry citizens.”

Yes, I’ve heard about this also. Interesting to see how it’s all going to turn out in China.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/article3311983.ece

#197 betamax on 04.13.12 at 6:00 pm

#191 Westernman — dad would be very disappointed.

#198 ordinery joe on 04.13.12 at 6:01 pm

Who cares if chinese are bringing over laundered money, you don’t have to follow them and buy.

#199 VICTORIA TEA PARTY on 04.13.12 at 6:02 pm

#140 Beach Girl

WTF!!!!

Are there REALLY people like you, er, I mean persons?

As you pursue your obvious goal of human perfection, whether the outcome be humane or otherwise, could I interest you in my discovery of a few days back, a simply stunning collection of 19th Century hot water bottles?

A slice.

#200 jess on 04.13.12 at 6:10 pm

lost leaders

FERC warns power, natural gas traders on manipulation

the utility’s traders had scheduled physical flows of electricity at a loss in order to reap a greater profit on derivative positions.

http://www.ferc.gov/enforcement/alleged-violation/notices/constellation.pdf

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-12/business/sns-rt-us-regulations-energy-usbre83b06z-20120411_1_energy-regulators-western-power-market-constellation-energy

#201 Dontcallmeshirley on 04.13.12 at 6:12 pm

Unlikely. I told the deniers on this blog that the power and resolve of the banking regulator should never be doubted. — Garth

——

I’m with you, you’re preachin’ to the choir.

Going forward, OFSI regs in no way jeopardize bank divs, agree? In fact, i’m thinking once mono-lines and mortgage brokers are pushed back into irrelevance, banks should be able to realize better margins.

PS. That’s where i’ve been going with the mortgage broker comments – don’t like the impact they’ve had on my beloved banks.

#202 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 04.13.12 at 6:19 pm

#196 betamax and #163 Bill Gable — Easy to understand why China and Russia will protect Iran from the west — Iran has oodles of oil, so . . .

This came in this a.m. — JPM and Delta – and figured it newsworthy. “Few people realize this but several major oil companies, including Sunoco, Hess Corp, Valero and ConocoPhillips — just to name a few — are planning to close, idle or otherwise shut down refineries on the east coast. . . . That would remove 51% of U.S. East Coast refinery capacity from the equation by some accounts.”
*
#89 Tim — Interesting post. Agree with you, but if Rae or Mulcair had formed a majority, there would have been no difference, as someone else is running this country now.

#125 househornyhousewife — Excellent post!

#146 Sky — Good link. RE may have tanked in the Okanagan, but at least we won’t have to endure what the Vancouverites will have to.
#151 GregW, Oakville — G’day Greg. Thanks for the feedback. Good story about your friend.

#154 Smoking Man — “The obident herd that can’t think” — That’s why they’re sheeple, and we’re not. It helps to think critically.

#203 daystar on 04.13.12 at 6:26 pm

An economist with Nomurra is calling for Mark Carney to raise rates:

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2012/4/13/Nomura-calls-for-Bank-of-Canada-to-hike-rates.aspx

#204 daystar on 04.13.12 at 6:48 pm

#155 Keith on 04.13.12 at 12:51 pm

A good part of the reason behind what you are witnessing is explained quite well I think, in this link:

http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/narcissistic-people/

Its not genetic as most people think, unfortunately. This is an excellent link below, worth watching twice if one can’t get it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD5MI-EACI0

… and if understood, means that most social disorders are environmental (not genetic) as environmental factors influence genetic development quite significantly early on and such influences are most often passed down by our parents so how does one deal with people who have narcissistic traits or have such disorders full blown but are themselves victims of abuse?

http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/art-of-conversation/

… by become more self aware for one and try not to engage in such behavior towards others and with ourselves and observing far more than we do which can be quite challenging because we end up reacting to narcissistic behaviors negatively (which is often needed to establish the difference between right wrong but there are much other better ways like the way I’m choosing right now through awareness rather than try to outperform a narcissistic rant). The link below makes some strong points which is why I’ve put it there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzLFSCzUzNA&feature=relmfu

… the point that is missed is that not all narcissistic traits are found or to the levels or extremes that we have grown to expect with such labels and such labels, unless they are accurately placed can be overblown or really just another narissistic display. The above link gets into the true traits of a narcissist and talks about 5 of at least 7 traits:

1) Lack of empathy
2) Grandiousity
3) Poisonous envy
4) sense of entitlement
5) a tendacy to exploit & manipulate others
6) arrogant, haughty behavior & attitude
7) believes themselves to be special and unique and can only be understood by, or associate with others.

There are also 2 kinds: Somatic & Cerebral, with different inputs by generally one dominant parent right at the beginning of development y’know, either its “you are special, superior” or “you are worthless” combined with other abuses that play out to form a person who basically grows up on autopilot but these are the much more extreme cases. If we go back to the first link what we get is that people in general do exhibit naricissistic behavoir that is more common than we would like to admit even within ourselves, never mind others. Its not as full blown as this man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il

http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/secrecy-taken-to-a-fine-art/17ygra819?cpkey=4ff05068-e7ed-4f77-8a52-12c3a7734153%7c%7c%7c%7c

http://video.ca.msn.com/watch/video/kim-jong-un-to-share-power/17yy0m87z?cpkey=4ff05068-e7ed-4f77-8a52-12c3a7734153%7c%7c%7c%7c

(Its all a part of macroeconomics, readers, I profile leaders to accurately establish geopolitical risk)

Or mr. “grandiose himself”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iENo3wibvuw

…but its often there regardless. Our levels of intelligence vary, our levels and types of abuse vary and as a consequence our social behaviors vary but the point I’m trying to make is that not all abusers and jerks are narcissists even though all narcissists are abusers and jerks even though we can emulate narcissistic behavior just the same. We all have witnessed and are subject to narcissistic behavoir well before we finish grade school and sadly, we see such behavior on blogs not only on this site but blogs everywhere and I think, due to anonymity, they are much more frequent and common.

Racism? Sexism? Ageism, pick an “ism” and narissistic traits are there with the “lack of empathy” being the number one cause of them all and thats what makes me profile when I see that lack of empathy. It begins there, its developed very early on and its… entirely preventable through awareness but as evidenced, even on a site like this, most of us have a a long way to go.

#205 truth hammer on 04.13.12 at 6:49 pm

#194 ….your friend couldn’t have had a similar set up in Phuket because a foreign national cannot own land in Thailand. I talked to a cable installer who had to move out of downtown Vancouver because his truck was broken into every week…..break in’s are everywhere. My place in BKK with full security has never been broken into.

#66 what’s the expat visa situ in Indo these days. I used to have to fly out every 30 days…pain in the rear….Thai is every 60…..Malay every 90.

#206 Daisy Mae on 04.13.12 at 7:30 pm

#133 DISCIPLE: “It’s simple mind control. It’s a logical arc that explains so many things in life.”

*****************************

Or put another way, it’s kinda like the frog placed in a pot of water — it doesn’t realize the water is getting hotter and hotter until it’s too late.

#207 Mark W on 04.13.12 at 7:30 pm

When markets are in a bubble real estate is selling like hot cakes and realtors, who work on commission, WIN big time.

When bubbles crash real estate agents, who still work on commission, sell even more real estate (who cares if its a repo!) and WIN even more.

The game is rigged both way for real estate agents.

UP = WIN!

DOWN = WIN EVEN BIGGER!

Suckers caught in the middle … who cares!!

#208 Mikey the Realtor on 04.13.12 at 7:47 pm

Garth, your one sided censorship is quite pathetic, as you allows certain members to abuse other while you delete the ones that don’t agree with your views.

As I wrote my response to bitch girl I knew that it was going to get deleted but decided to write it anyway to prove a point. Go ahead, hit the delete button…lol

Not this time. — Garth

#209 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 04.13.12 at 8:00 pm

-
Bulgarian Infighting “The Central Banker is whining that they cannot plunge the people of Bulgaria deeper and faster into permanent debt-slavery.” wrh.com; Europe is the one who flew over the cuckoo’s nest; 1:05 clip “Like Wall Street, the Federal Reserve, and Washington DC!” wrh.com; Iran “Maybe Iran doesn’t want to make it easy for the US or Israel to start sinking their tankers.” wrh.com; UK woes Rece- ir Depres-, they’re living on borrowed time, which doesn’t need to be paid back; 3:53 clip Chinese supertankers helping ship Iran’s oil; Obomba and Iran “These meetings have been engineered by the West to fail.” wrh.com; Americans, Tax Refunds and Bankruptcy; 3:13 clip Bankers bait Brits. into debt trap; Malaysia Group promoting use of physical gold and silver.
*
Thorium – coming in and uranium heading out; Ring of Fire ‘Quake and shake time! Crusades #?? Blame it on the Muslims, then convert them; Pakistan Standing up for its rights against the US; 9:58 clip Impeach Obama? That would be good here; DC leading world in and to lawlessness; 16:34 clip Biological / Neurological science stuff; 5:25 clip US and NATO are covered in Syrians; blood; Jailing Americans for Profit Which is where Harper is taking us; Kannaduhh Some common sense; 3:53 clip Crowd control troubles? Bring on martial law! Propagandists Divide and conquer? Not working in the US; Artificial Intelligence Politicos and lobbyists are gone! YEEHAAWWW!

#210 guy from toronto on 04.13.12 at 8:50 pm

a suggestion to you, Beach Girl.

Twitter.

too much information for all of us here. (stifles yawn)

#211 SE Asian Expat on 04.13.12 at 9:29 pm

@#143 Wage Slave
Why such a hostile response complete with profanity? I’m choosing to escape the life of a wage slave in a first world country to live a more simple life in a third world country. On this RE blog, I’m weighing options and making financial and ethical comparisons about where and how to live in retirement.
@#127 Sky
Yes, FX and the disparate value of work have wreaked havoc worldwide. I dare say that there might be a difference between ethically and unethically earned money and money laundering should be monitored.
@#180 Steev
Yes, “buying” in Bali as in Phuket is really lifetime leasing and not for speculation, imho. The $70k simple Balinese house and land (not a garish villa) will go back to the local people when I’m gone. Meantime, volunteering will be a more personally satisfying way of “giving back” than paying 40% tax rate in Canada.
@#194 Onthesidelines
Yes, as in any country, it’s best to blend in, not flaunt wealth and make peace with the neighbours.
@#205 truth hammer
I’m moving from increasingly crass, dangerous Phuket to cultural, spiritual Bali. For a 55-year-old single woman, retirement visas in Phuket and Bali are similar and accessible. As a non-resident of Canada, legally avoid capital gains tax in an offshore account.
@#75 GuyfromToronto
I’m lurking on this blog to get an idea of RE and lifestyle back in Canada. I’m still uncommitted to retirement plans. Moving to “paradise” requires a big shift in expectations. Having lived in many different countries, it seems residents generally get what they pay for in taxes and expenses… except for taxes and RE and in some areas of Canada…. prices seem unrealistically high.

#212 The Thing in the Basement on 04.13.12 at 9:30 pm

169 Pr – so how does this work? Let’s say I just bought a house, but put 50% down. My mortgage is forgiven. But who owns the house? Am i partners with the bank? Do I
send them 50% of a monthly rent? What happens when I
sell?

I dont understand this concept.

#213 SE Asian Expat on 04.13.12 at 9:57 pm

@ #75 GuyfromToronto

I suggest you look here: ;)

http://framelessworld.com/2012/04/ubud-bali-cure-for-the-soul/

#214 penpal on 04.13.12 at 11:37 pm

@ # 163 Bill Gable

Hey Bill, it was actually myself that suggested you call the city planning / permit department (not Blase)and I’m glad to be of help.

#215 Ozy - Abolish Multiple Offers on 04.14.12 at 3:38 pm

Using a low price as a hook or bait to attract offers is all well and good but if the real estate laws are the same there as here in Florida they have to sell it if the highest bid is only equal to that hook price. There is no ability to get out of the deal with some higher reserved price in an auction situation.

#216 Pr on 04.15.12 at 12:20 am

212 The Thing in the Basement
The people realize that the housing bubble was carefully plan, well in advance, as the mortgages associate to all this. Now you start to realize that everyone is caught by some extent in that fraud.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”
Good men, stand up…NOW!

#217 joe campbell on 04.15.12 at 11:40 am

7% returns are as realistic as a 40 year old home needing a new roof, floors, kitchen, bathroom being worth 500,000$.

You look foolish telling people to chase returns that are near impossible for the last decade. We dont get to enter a time machine to the 1980’s to do our investing.

I am invested in banks, blue chips, etc. and am glad when i dont lose any money, let alone have any return.

If your great advice is to sell and “get a 7% return” then i think your blog is pretty worthless. as it doesnt really offer any advice on managing a portfollio or maintaining your net worth.

As mentioned, my portfolio averaged 7.44% over the last two years, and is quite conservative. Don’t project your own inabilities onto others. — Garth

#218 joe campbell on 04.15.12 at 2:06 pm

Sorry garth but I am sure my portfillio has outperformed yours since 2008, even with a weak 2011. The point is every trade has a winner and a loser, the market is flat for 2 years. ie no ror.

If you want to project the markets return then fine. If you want to manage a portfilio then fine. The two are not the same. To suggest that every person can achieve 7% return on a market that has not increased in ten years is nothing short of ignorance.

Please refer to harvard study by john campbell for my views on markets estimated ROR.

A suggestion of 7% is a porfilio put into high risk situation. which is what you are recommended to those entering retirement. It is very bad advice.

you are replacing one pyramid scam for another at best. at worst they are one and the same scam, with home loans tied into the market and both crashing at the same time.

Perserving capital should be the goal of any financial adviser. Your recommendation is more towards maximizing returns and gambling.

Anyone can preserve capital. Just don’t invest. If you want growth as well, then balance and diversity are key. I’d say your invective suggests you are lacking. — Garth

#219 joe campbell on 04.15.12 at 2:35 pm

not investing is clearly exposure to inflationary risk, and not preserving its purchasing power, which is what capital is.

If you diversify and hedge every possibility you should come out even. This is not a poor strategy for someone who is old. However hedging every possibility is near impossible, and service fees are not free.

at least 5% of my porfilio was in VT, so im not that lacking.

If you want to continue to advise people to take on alot of risk and offer returns that are not realistic to most then fine. I however will continue to think of it as poor advise.

Anyway I think your housing comments are an interesting read and generally reflect my views on the hosuing market. I will continue not agreeing with investment advice that paints a picture of riches for all.

#220 Evelin Johncox on 04.15.12 at 5:23 pm

The chinese have been around for a long time.
In 1988 I advertised my small TH at Leslie & Finch for $165K. I paid $41K in 1979. By the week’s end I had three offers. A chinese man squeaky clean and who spoke English brought a chinese lady & man to see my TH. They spoke no English and had no say if they liked or did not like the TH. He had the offer papers in his car. We negotiated at 163K CASH. He even wanted to buy my car as I was moving to BC. I moved in July, 1988 and purchased a gorgeous custom built house for only $104K 2,200sq. ft. on Glenn Mtn. in Abbotsford.
My dad was a Builder in ON and once told me that property doubles every nine years. Not so now!