The bad idea

As the Canadian economy moves into recession, pray for Jake. For he is married to Jenny. And she’s outta control. In the small tableau of their life are contained the broad themes of our coming demise.

“A few months ago I was able to finally convince Jenny to sell our condo and rent. After months on the market (and minimal showings) we finally got an offer on it this week,” Jake, 40, says. So much for that hot market in Calgary. “The problem now is that my wife is starting to get cold feet again about renting and feels that with the condo selling it’s a perfect time to buy a place with more size to fit our family (2 40yr-old adults, 2 young kids and her Mom who helps us look after the kids while we work).

“I keep telling her we need to save at least 20% before we buy again which she seemed to understand for awhile until our realtor who sold our place sent us the latest CMHC market report.”

“I’ve tried to battle this one as best I could, Garth, but its getting harder. Last night we argued and debated for 3 hours and its causing our marriage a lot of stress.  I’m simply not smart enough nor have the financial background to give answers that paint a clear picture to her on what we should do next. I know if you could talk to us it would help her understand a wise plan for our future. I want us to buy again but just want to make sure we do it right. After selling this condo and clearing our debts we will have about 60k and another 32k sitting in a savings account.”

I asked Jake last night what kind of house Jen wants. A $450,000 one, he said.

Can they buy it? Of course they can. With closing costs and 10% down, it’s less than fifty grand. A five-year fixed mortgage with a 30-year am will cost just under $2,000 a month, CMHC levy included. Add property insurance, taxes and a few repairs, and that comes to about $2,500 a month. Still more than renting the same house, but Jake gets to keep Jenny – at least until she wants a $700,000 place.

However, getting real estate ain’t the issue. Between voracious bankers and rapacious realtors, virtually anyone can score a house these days, down payment or not. It’s the consequences of this decision which this couple should be worried about.

First, they have a net worth of $92,000. Using fifty of it to buy, leaves a scant $42,000 at the same time they’re taking on $416,137 in debt. If a job is lost, well, in highly technical terms, and as we define it in the wealth management business, they’re screwed.

Second, this is the cheapest this house will ever be to carry. By renewal time in 2017 a five-year mortgage could well be 7%, and 30-year amortizations gone. The monthly will double.

Third, as rates rise, affordability falls. A house bought for $450,000 when five-year money was 4% will be worth less than when rates return to normal – unless, of course, wages and salaries have doubled at the same time. The chances of that are equal to me buying a Prius.

Fourth, the near-certainty that residential real estate in Calgary (along with most other places) is about to become even more illiquid. Jake, baby, consider that it took months to sell an inexpensive condo at a time when oil prices have crested $100 and every Calgary realtor worth her spurs is spreading horniness. What happens in two years when the economy slags? And you have no equity left?

Fifth, can you eat drywall? Then what’s the retirement plan? At age 40 having a house you barely own (but are 100% responsible for) and liquid assets of $40,000, is a fail. Guaranteed, that property will suck off every extra dollar in renos and improvements. If not, then the kids will soak off the family cash flow. How will you possibly accumulate the million bucks you and lusty Jen will need to finance the last 30 years of your life?

Sixth, the kids. You’ve nothing saved for their education, which I’d think would mean more to a mother than a new kitchen. In 15 years they’ll need at least a hundred grand between them over four years – which happens in your late fifties. Parenthood has its price. Pony up.

Seventh, I’ve already mentioned the economy. Don’t let Alberta’s faux bravado blind you to what’s happening. The country’s manufacturing base is crumbling and demand for commodities will be tepid with Europe smouldering, the US consolidating and China cooling. Household debt is obese and in a country where 65% of the economy’s dependent on consumer spending, this is toxic. Worse, there are too many people like your wife. Financial death by MLS.

Sure, Jake, I’ll talk to her. Send me an email. We’ll set it up. Gratis.

But you’ve already made your bed. Middle-aged, two dependents, little cash, no strategy, dumb expectations and wall-to-wall stress. If you’re arguing for three hours about something you can’t afford to risk, maybe Jen’s beyond my help.

Most people are. Outta control. Confusing stuff for security. Debt for wealth. Want for need.

So, make her aroused for you, pal, not Mr. Sub-Zero.

Perhaps I can assist with that.

276 comments ↓

#1 Dave on 02.10.12 at 10:26 pm

Third?

#2 TurnerNation on 02.10.12 at 10:30 pm

Did the trade swing to long volatility this week? Massive VIX move.
I caught most of the VXX move this week. Longs use caution.

#3 T.O. Bubble Boy on 02.10.12 at 10:33 pm

Yikes – good luck selling this one:
http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=11411118&PidKey=-1068423109

Dec 17: $1,295,000
Feb 9: $1,099,000 (-15%+ in under 2 months)

and, top that off with maintenance fees of $1,667.22/month

#4 Dave on 02.10.12 at 10:35 pm

Oh yeah first baby!! Great post Garth. We live in Calgary and we’re glad we sold last year!

#5 JO on 02.10.12 at 10:41 pm

Hi Jake, tell your wife to check out the link below to find out what happened in the US when industry shills called a bubble a baloon.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/july-dec05/housing_11-29.html

Save your money, avoid the sheep and don’t become a tax and debt slave to the banks and gov’t. Don’t fall into the junk neo-liberal economic trap.
JO

#6 sam.i.am on 02.10.12 at 10:45 pm

@turnernation, Took a small position tvix myself. Still working on that toyota head too.

#7 Westernman on 02.10.12 at 10:52 pm

A sad, tragic and so common tale of woe in our matriarchal nanny-state…
Jakes problem is simple and lies within… he has got to find a pair somewhere and get control of the female he has foolishly entered into legal contract with the state with – in layman’s terms ” find a pair and quick ”
Let this be a lesson to you, gentlemen, NEVER EVER let females make the financial calls – you WILL regret it…

#8 nsqt on 02.10.12 at 10:56 pm

Great post as usual Garth. Your comment, “Second, this is the cheapest this house will ever be to carry. By renewal time in 2017 a five-year mortgage could well be 7%, and 30-year amortizations gone. The monthly will double”………..makes me wonder what will happen in Nova Scotia in the next 5 to 7 years once the ship building contract is up and running……Lots of jobs to be had….money being made…..people buying houses……But this will only last so long (30 years or so)…….Whats going to happen when the well runs dry and the contract is finished and people have large debt as they were used to the big pay cheques……

You mean all the people who build ships now are homeless? — Garth

#9 T.O. Bubble Boy on 02.10.12 at 10:57 pm

wow – a small 5.7% decline in prices is causing local government intervention (housing subsidies) in China:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gZlOdh4tUk0TCaJOPZLM_3m1i5bg?docId=CNG.6a0f3251d8f2700a83fc289d551edaf2.481

imagine what happens when the real declines happen!

#10 Puzni on 02.10.12 at 11:03 pm

Great write up Garth.

Everything is going bigger. Take a look at houses build in the 1950’s , like the ranchers all over vancouver or surrey and which were able to happily raise families. Now these days its a minimum two level house with a garage. We so often misunderstand needs vs wants. Also no one ever mention the higher cost associates with larger house such as property taxes and maintenance costs.

#11 dogman01 on 02.10.12 at 11:05 pm

Bravo Meastro!

“unless, of course, wages and salaries have doubled at the same time. The chances of that are equal to me buying a Prius.”

#12 Harlee on 02.10.12 at 11:06 pm

Isn’t Calgary’s economy more diversified than just oil? If not, it better be. Somebody here has mentioned natural gas…What about propane ? It used to be popular.
Surely Cowtown has some food processing that they could capitalize on. I’m anxious to hear from Albertans in general about what they can draw on – “after oil”.

Testosterone. — Garth

#13 Jon B on 02.10.12 at 11:06 pm

Garth you’ve been updating this blog six days a week for years now. Somehow the message remains fresh, insightful, relevant and at times mildly entertaining. Thank you!

Mildly? I’m crushed. — Garth

#14 Marco from vancouver on 02.10.12 at 11:07 pm

I propose we ask smoking man, BPOe, devils advocate and the eponymous Le mad vlad to take a break from polluting the intellectual capital of this blog.

Same for all the phiiirsters, fiiirster, and whatever iteration of dyslexia those Prius drivers can identify themselves with.

Then add all those who try to make political statements like blame the cons, blame the libs etc. Into the same pot.

This blog is ridiculed by ramblings which don’t even have the decency of aligning themselves to the theme of the site.

It is Garth’s blog. He is trying to educate you to understand the place RE has in the financial portfolio you run during your life.

Have the decency to respect the service this man is doing you. If you don’t value it, then have the decency to not detract from it for the sake of others.

I for one have followed it for a year and a half and have transformed my life for which I am grateful.

In that period I have derived ZERO value from the aforementioned group of people and their disjointed, ramblings.

I suggest you start your own blog, post your URL once and see who follows.

If you score less than 100 views per day, then be humble enough to see that as a cue to shut up… No one is interested. You are like the drunk at the bar everyone laughs at.

Now that I have done the same, I will shut up.

Stop spoiling this blog… Shoo, go away, nothing to see here (but for great financial discussions)…

#15 LH on 02.10.12 at 11:08 pm

I just bought myself another piece of M5T, near the University. Closing date in a couple months. Carry will be positive. Sure, the suburbs may crash and burn but single family houses (not condos) in the core (defined by me as M5T, M5S, M5R) will be fine. It’s a lot of debt but I’m not worried. After all, I’m paying less than $300 / sq ft. Not as cheap as 2009, but still a relative bargain for a livable central downtown core location in an increasingly international city.

Real estate is intensely local; your results may vary!

#16 dogman01 on 02.10.12 at 11:10 pm

I mean Maestro!

Too much wine.
But really, so much bravado, hubris, audacity.

Truly you are my: Conan standing up to Thulsa Doom!

You are pissed. — Garth

#17 Bob on 02.10.12 at 11:14 pm

Just heard from my parents in Richmond Hill, that a preview opening for Jefferson Forest townhomes/single detached homes (http://jeffersonforest.ca/) is occurring tomorrow. She advises me that eager folks have been lining up since this morning and there are around 70 folks that are camping overnight for the 11 am opening.

INSANE! Because the starting home goes for $550-600k! I’m guessing its mostly speculators or that absolutely blew my mind

#18 Sh on 02.10.12 at 11:14 pm

They just keep pumping this dribble out; wonder who in the Vancouver Sun (Rain) is married to a realtor?

Vancouver’s housing market unlikely to face significant price correction: expert

Banks tightening lending standards to avoid U.S.-style housing correction

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Vancouver+housing+market+unlikely+face+significant+price+correction+expert/6129139/story.html#ixzz1m2VIEEuf

#19 jimmy on 02.10.12 at 11:16 pm

When poverty knocks on the door, love jumps out the window.

All women are

DELETED

#20 Westernman on 02.10.12 at 11:24 pm

LH@#15,
Congratulations! LESS than 300 dollars a square ft. My, you must be proud…lol
Yep, you are the best looking horse in the glue factory alright – carry on!

#21 Kurt on 02.10.12 at 11:31 pm

Jenny, I’m going to be blunt:

Money does not equal love.
House ownership does not equal home.
Tomorrow doesn’t look like today.

Given your family’s situation, if you buy that house you better believe in God because he’s the only one will be able to help you out. But even then, you might want to remember the scriptures: “Tempt not thy Lord.”

#22 McExpat on 02.10.12 at 11:36 pm

@7 Westernman
You are a piece of work. Seems to me the financial mess the world find itself in was brought on mostly by your side of the species. So how about your save your Jerry Springeresque advice for the young lad to “grow some” and just crawl back to your man cave from where you came. You are beyond help.

Ah geez, don’t encourage him. — Garth

#23 AprilNewwest on 02.10.12 at 11:37 pm

#18 Sh- Haven’t you learned that the real estate gang, and so called “experts” including some home owners will continue to try to make the housing market look rosy regardless of what’s really going on. It was the same spin in all the other countries where real estate has crashed.

#24 TurnerNation on 02.10.12 at 11:40 pm

(was 2nd, two days in a row. Oh yeah!!)

3 T.O. Bubble Boy on 02.10.12 at 10:33 pm

Lawrence/Yonge is a HAM (Hot Anglo Money) enclave.

Feb 9th and 10’s entries: two houses that went for 25% over offer! This Leslieville area is another HAM (Hot Anglo Money) area:

http://www.themash.ca/

#25 T.O. Bubble Boy on 02.10.12 at 11:40 pm

The latest justifications for insane house prices:
http://www.movesmartly.com/2012/02/forecasting-torontos-real-estate-market.html

Some clever realtor talking points in there… too bad they all contradict themselves:

1) Since there are so many condos with granite and stainless being rented out, industry-calculated price to rent ratios are not properly calculated. hmmm… but what about the ACTUAL RENT AND ACTUAL PRICE you get for a condo in Toronto? Does $1500/month for a $400k condo with $400/month condo fees and $300/month property tax make any sense?

2) Average prices are skewed by the high end and low end, and also don’t account for the changing size/style of housing. The argument is that average price stats are not meaningful, but then a point is made about how the average condo size has gone down to 500-600 sqft in many buildings, which *keeps average prices artificially low*…. wait – does this mean that average prices should be considered EVEN MORE out of line with incomes?

3) Prices in the City will keep going up up up because of the lack of supply and increasing demand for urban homes. While it is true that there are a shortage of listings and a high premium for houses in good neighbourhoods near transit, *it assumes that things like incomes and debt servicing costs don’t matter*. No matter how much families WANT to live in a certain area, this does not instantly make it so. Unless the incomes of the Top 1% magically become commonplace with the next 50%, the ‘demand’ for urban houses is just like the ‘demand’ for ferraris — more of a daydream.

4) No recognition of demographic trends at all — the million dollar homes of today are owned by Boomers (who will need to move for retirement cash), and their kids (the Gen X ‘echo’ generation that are just about through their child-bearing years). There simply will be a lack of house-horny greater fools when the nesting instinct is removed from the equation.

#26 tb on 02.10.12 at 11:41 pm

What’s up with all the Prius haters?

#27 ScottyD on 02.10.12 at 11:44 pm

#14 Marco from vancouver on 02.10.12 at 11:07 pm

If you have gained nothing from Smoking Mans posts, I suggest you re-read them. Underneath the “drunk at the bar that everyone laughs at” are some of the most valuable lessons you may ever learn.

#28 not 1st on 02.10.12 at 11:57 pm

When I sold my house in cowtown in November I sat the realtor down at the table and told her in simple terms, now that you have my business, I want a straight answer on the expected trend in house prices. i told her I know remax knows where this goes and that historically prices have always been about 3 times annual earnings, not 5 or 6.

I badgered her for nearly 30 minutes but no matter what she would not come off her company line about jobs and in migration and the price of oil and blah blah blah. I know that remax and CREB and others know what real estate does in a bubble. I even cited the booms in the 70s and 80s and the return back to median prices. Got to hand it to her, she was very well trained. Thankfully I know too whats about to happen.

#29 Ex-Cowtown on 02.11.12 at 12:00 am

G-Man, slagging the Prius? I thought you were on a crusade to save us all from Man Made Global Warming?

I guess you must have read this article from the ageing wrinkled baby boomer eco-activist who now feels “duped” by the Global Warmongers.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,813814,00.html

#30 Chris scott on 02.11.12 at 12:01 am

@westernman The 1950s called, they want their sexist gender-stereotype back.

#31 Dazed & Confused on 02.11.12 at 12:03 am

Seriously, Jenny, from one woman to another. Save your marriage, let your nesting instinct go. Save your family. Owning real estate now is not a good idea. Look around you. Look at your assets/debts. Look at the world economy. Do you REALLY think this is a good time to buy, or will waiting put you and yours in a better position? Stop and take a breath. Yeah, you are in Calgary. I’ve been there. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Superficial. It won’t last in the big scheme of things. Make your FAMILY last. Take your time, girl. Don’t get sucked into keeping up with the Jones. Think for yourself. You have the opportunity to make it right for your wee ones. Do it right, Jenny. Listen to your husband.

#32 bono on 02.11.12 at 12:03 am

Garth this just was published. CIBC to reportedly sell Firstline Mortgages

http://www.canadianmortgagetrends.com/canadian_mortgage_trends/2012/02/breaking-news-cibc-to-reportedly-sell-firstline.html

#33 Bast on 02.11.12 at 12:05 am

Just bought that Mazda Miata (used)! Who needs real estate in Cowtown when you can go full-on middle-aged crazy in a convertible!

#34 45north on 02.11.12 at 12:11 am

Jack, nothing to say man. You have to be strong for your family – which means “don’t buy”

JO: brillant post November 2005, David Lereah

LH: It’s a lot of debt but I’m not worried.

me neither

#35 Suede on 02.11.12 at 12:14 am

#14 Marco from Vancouver

If it wasn’t for the wildly entertaining and left field comments that those gentlemen charitably craft, then your blog experience would be limited to the handful of minutes it takes to read Garth’s posts.

This is a whole show followed by a panel that dissects only 5% of what was written. It’s like SportsCentre, but with cooler names and assumed personas. The world needs some measure of conflict, or else things just wouldn’t be interesting. Imagine Braveheart if the English just kindly gave up.

Yes it’s Friday night and now onto something else to do instead of read and research…time again to fit in with the real world.

#36 West coaster on 02.11.12 at 12:14 am

Garth,

The Prius is quiet and emissions are extremely low. Unlike a Harley,noise and air pollution.

#37 Mel on 02.11.12 at 12:16 am

After reading this story, nothing would surprise me anymore.

My advice, don’t give in! When economy/house prices unravel to the down side, you will forever remind your wife about pushing you to buy. The worst part, your mind was telling you not to do it. You will never forgive yourself for being stupid. Put up with the bull now, or later.

On this subject, my husband and I are of one mind. Even if he was not, I would not give in to something that I know I will regret.

To the Westerman: Keep your western pants zipped. This way, you will never have to make such stupid comments like” Never ever let females make financial call”. Because you won’t have one to worry about.

#38 nonplused on 02.11.12 at 12:16 am

A million bucks probably won’t cut it to cover 30 years of life for 2 people anymore, Garth. I guess it depends on how you want to live but I personally think cat food smells awful, even though they say it’s more nutritious than what most of us choose to eat ourselves.

Even at 2% inflation prices will double over that time. Since conservative portfolios don’t even cover that anymore, retirees have to stay “out on the risk curve”.

So let’s say that a very conservative portfolio manages to keep pace with inflation, 2% after taxes in a 2% world, steady state. A couple who spends $5,000 a month would need $1,800,000 at the start to live 30 years retired. In short, as you always warn Garth, most couples who retire with a cool mil are going to run out of money before they run out of life.

I haven’t accounted for CPP or OAS so my numbers are overstated, but you run into some serious claw-backs on those if you try and live on $5,000 a month, especially if the money is in RRSP’s and you have to declare the withdrawals as income.

Can you live on less? Yes of course, many people do, especially if their house is paid for. But who would want to?

I’ve looked at what it costs to put a kid through school recently as I have 2 coming up on it, and your $50,000 each number is going to barely cover books and tuition for 4 years. This stuff isn’t cheap anymore. And unless you want to be a teacher or an engineer you probably need 6 years to be employable, so let’s make that $75,000. And since the new rules basically prohibit anyone who could pay it back from getting a student loan, you are on your own. And let’s not forget tuition generally goes up 6-7% a year, doubling every 10 years, so that $75,000 is low. Make sure and counsel your children to take something that leads to a job, because this shit isn’t cheap anymore.

In short, we are all screwed unless we can find a way to come up with more money. Whether by accident or design the policy of positive inflation is leading to a distinct new class divide: Those who can keep up and the former middle class. Those who can’t keep up will be forever 1 paycheck from ruin, but at least they will have an iPhone.

And no, unions and minimum wages laws are not the answer. The answer is for everyone to turn off the TV, cancel the trip to Mexico, get some skills, and get back to work. The heart of innovation is still in North America, and we’ve got to get everyone behind it before we loose that edge to the orient. The innovation curve has been parabolic for some time, but it’s really inflecting up right now and that will only get better. Parabolic curves start out looking pretty boring, but the rate at which they go up just keeps getting faster. But we are loosing “market share” because nobody want to learn, and nobody want to work, save the fine folks at Apple and a few others. This is the sad underside to collective socialism. The safety net encourages underperformance.

#39 Mr. Lee on 02.11.12 at 12:17 am

So many bloody idiots in Canada…..

#40 Westernman on 02.11.12 at 12:18 am

McExpat@#22,
That was disturbing to hear truth spoken unrepentantly by a free man, wasn’t it?
I suggest you contact Jake and inquire what he thinks of the results of letting his wife direct financial policy for the group… if his wife will allow him to be spoken to without her close supervision…
Sorry Garth – that post was just too juicy to resist…

#41 MC on 02.11.12 at 12:24 am

@ #2 TurnerNation
A short term(at least – perhaps 61.8% – 1300 on the S&P) correction is highly likely as long open positions on VIX contacts on the dealer/bank side outnumber shorts 2:1. The banks are also short 3:1 S&P. Research the COT report and use it for insight if you are gonna trade. However longer term sentiment is long the stock indicies, especially considering we are entering an election year when politicans have a habit of making attractive promises.

http://www.cftc.gov/marketreports/commitmentsoftraders/index.htm

http://www.cftc.gov/dea/options/financial_lof.htm

#42 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 12:28 am

15 LH

“single family houses (not condos) in the core (defined by me as M5T, M5S, M5R) …………..I’m paying less than $300 / sq ft….”

Hmmmm, ~2000 feet of domicile in a desirable central neighbourhood going for less than $600K? If the frigging thing is not falling down on it’s own, call me, I’ll offer!

We’ve seen modest houses in crack infested East-central hoods fetching well over $600K.

Something in the “St. George” or “Casa Loma” part of the world is probably worth a dollar or two more.

Seriously, I’m calling BS.

#43 The Thing in the Basement on 02.11.12 at 12:45 am

Garth – how do you get payments doubling? $416k @3.99
over 30 is just under $2K/mo, $376k (after 5 yr) @6.99
over 25 is just over $2600 – just about exact 1/3 increase.

Good advice neverthless.

#44 Westernman on 02.11.12 at 12:45 am

Mel@#37,
Re: your comment ” To the Westernman ”
Thanks for your concern but I do just fine in that regard – but women, like any dangerous and unstable substance, need to be carefully managed and controlled… it’s akin to driving a auto – it can be a wonderful servant but you must skillfully control it – you can’t let it go on it’s own without guidance…

#45 OneMoreThing on 02.11.12 at 12:46 am

It’s simple, if she cant understand this blog and/or wont read it….I’d make a serious life decision and fire her!

Giving into the direction she wants you to go is just going to put you there anyhow. Might as well nip it in the bud now bro!

#46 OneMoreThing on 02.11.12 at 12:49 am

VOLATILITY S&P 500 (^VIX)
-Chicago Options

20.79 Up 2.16(11.59%) 4:14PM EST

Snapshot for BALTIC DRY INDEX (BDIY)
Open: 715.00 Day Range: 715.00 – 715.00 Year To Date: -58.86%
Previous Close: 695.00 52-Week Range: 647.00 – 2,173.00 1-Year: -37.06%

#47 Phil on 02.11.12 at 12:51 am

Who pays 100k for college? Both my wife and I paid for college ourselves. Cost me 20k and my wife 40. Im a CA and shes a lawyer. There are such things as grants and bursaries… Red herring Garth.

Hardly. What cost you 60K could easily be 100K in 15 years. Lame. — Garth

#48 Ex-Cowtown on 02.11.12 at 1:09 am

#36 West coaster on 02.11.12 at 12:14 am Garth,

The Prius is quiet and emissions are extremely low. Unlike a Harley,noise and air pollution.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And now you got it! That IS the point of a Harley.

Dare to be sub-optimal!! Ride a Harley!! (or a Road Star which is just as much fun as a Harley but doesn’t piss oil all over your garage floor like an incontinent chihuahua)

#49 West Coast Heathen on 02.11.12 at 1:11 am

#47 Ex-Cowtown on 02.11.12 at 1:09 am #36 West coaster on 02.11.12 at 12:14 am Garth,

The Prius is quiet and emissions are extremely low. Unlike a Harley,noise and air pollution.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And now you got it! That IS the point of a Harley.

Dare to be sub-optimal!! Ride a Harley!! (or a Road Star which is just as much fun as a Harley but doesn’t piss oil all over your garage floor like an incontinent chihuahua)

=============================

Just make sure you wear your black and white leathers; you know, the ones made out of Killer Whale hide.

#50 Van guy on 02.11.12 at 1:13 am

Poco,

Regarding the unit at 114-4788 Brentwood dr. U got the MLS listing right. But I was looking for price purchased from developer. You said its possible.

#51 fifo on 02.11.12 at 1:17 am

#7 Westernman

UUUUUhhhhhh, if it wasn’t for me, my hubby and I would both be t**s up in vancouver… thankfully it’s only him, but he likes it that way ;)

#52 Arnold - The Ultimate Canadian Solution on 02.11.12 at 1:19 am

The Ultimate Canadian Solution

1. All Canadians bid at multiple offers in 2012 and raise RE prices two-tree-four fold. Duable, agents continue to ask their friends to bring 3-5 offers each.
2. CMHC sends MR Harpon around the world, to bring 1 MIL+ rich immigrantos (and few more poor jailed pandas, if necessary). Repeat trip as needed to fill the new 1 trillion total insurable mortgage ceiling.
3. All Canadian sell their RE to rich immigrantos looking to buy Canadian “Value” and Canadian “Life-Style” (nice rime means easy sell, or just ‘disclose’ to newcomers price always go up here, because of the snow)
4. 2014. All Canadians retiring prematurely to 3rd world countries or countries of origin (descent) with the golden LOOT. Not enough planes, zeppelins are employed.
5. Rich immigrantos claiming national-level fraud (foreclosure scandal). Pay the mortgage with fake currency bills or from QE4
6. The New Canadian Spring govt. nationalize natural resources, donates the rusted 50 BIL jets, and bails out the too big to fall banks (high five baby)
6. CMHC is abolished, since having a mortgage is now illegal, former CEO/CFO tried in jail as capitalist/exploitation traitors
7. Canada changes name and joins…USA (United States of Asia)
8.Demised Harpon joins PETA

#53 jonni on 02.11.12 at 1:34 am

Marco … to paraphase Herr Harper, “and let me be perfectly clear”. Smoking man, BPOE, Devils Advocate and the Le Mad Vlad comments are written and judged on their merit, by us great unwashed. You and your very literate prose give me cause to puke. Smoking Man … I’m in ….. a$$holes like this should be reading and heeding your advice.

#54 BPOE on 02.11.12 at 1:35 am

For the record Junius I never post as you. I was the one who had to change my handle from VancouverGoinUp to BPOE as someone kept posting falsely as me. You have your opinion of Vancouver real estate and I just ahppen to disagree. Vancouver is world class now, it’s different and you and the American will not stop China and the rest of the world from buying. It truly is unstoppable

#55 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 02.11.12 at 1:39 am

-
“The bad idea” — Ohdearwottapitynot2worrynevermind. Banxters love Jenny, and those like her. Now to other things.
*
Isn’t this nice Celebrating bonuses in a pub; How Many? Good question; Caffeine Meditation It works for some; Bonds Safe? Not quite; Collapse in Global Trade; China; Banks paying people to leave homes; Canada Some areas are doing well, but American consumer confidence waning; Beyond Chinese New Year, bear lurks; Coal-fired plants to stay open; Protection against currencies; 9:05 clip QE is saving and destroying the economy at the same time.

Buy silver and forget gold; More Waning Banks profits; Retirement Strategy for boomers; Earnings better, so Buying Opportunity? China’s North East Petroleum a good buy; Russian N. Gas up sharply; Italy’s banks downgraded; Gas consumption down, but why? Soros Eight predictions; Fear of Money os something like that; Anything But Normal; Merkel’s getting ready to pull the pin; Greece, et al Out of chaos, order.
*
Kim Jong Un Only been in power a couple of months, but if true, it’s quick moving; Northern Lights in slo-mo; GW in NAmerica, bloody frozen elsewhere; Vermont Fed. judge ruling against state on nuke plant; Detroit Self-defense killings up, as there’s hardly any police; Rothschild vs. the Daily Mail. The Mail won; New Mental Illnesses Shyness and grieving; Russia building powerful laser; Jeb Bush Kissinger told the Chinese this a few weeks ago. Three of them will be tied, and Bush will be brought in.

#56 Mean Gene on 02.11.12 at 1:49 am

Hang tough until the F budget, it’s just around the corner.

#57 Kevin on 02.11.12 at 1:52 am

“The country’s manufacturing base is crumbling”

Canada is not outsourcing manufacturing like the US has and the high dollar has not hurt our manufacturing sector.
http://tinyurl.com/7pjbg8m

Oops!
From 1998 to 2010, manufacturing as a share of GDP in Canada dropped from 15% to 11%.

In the same time period in the US, manufacturing as a share of GDP dropped from 17% to a shade under 14%.
http://tinyurl.com/6w8vdwz

That is OK, we got them beat in construction. Construction in the US is around 4% of GDP, while Canada is just north of 7% right now. Must be the igloos
http://tinyurl.com/84sxh7c

#58 Actual Waterloo Resident on 02.11.12 at 2:07 am

The delusion is through the roof. I recently saw semi-detached houses in ***KITCHENER*** going for $539K, with $400/month in fees and $400/month in taxes. Anyone who attended UW or lives in Waterloo knows that Kitchener is like an alien world, somewhere you simply don’t venture unless you’re looking for crack or $5 hookers (who take crack as payment, btw). It’s an entire different feel, going from the world of urban yuppies, rich asian students and (soon to be unemployed) RIM employees, to one of crackheads, prostitutes, and welfare recipients. I know it sounds harsh, but it’s true. Kitchener has no industry. BF Goodrich, gone. Electrohome, gone. Food processing is rapidly disappearing. I drive with friends through Kitchener when we’re bored and are in utter shock that some have BMW’s and Mercedes’ in the drive ways. Wow.

$539K in Kitchener. For those in the know, this is the ultimate seal of doom. Kitchener houses in the early 2000’s could be had for Detroit prices almost, not $10K, but you could go up and buy a 1,500 sq ft home in Kitchener for $50-100K without a problem. These were actually solidly built houses, of solid brick and stone. Now vinyl-sided homes in Kitchener are asking $539K, for a SEMI-DETACHED?!???!!??!?!??!!???!??!??! selling point: “Close to Universities and RIM”, ughm, Kitchener is not close to UW, nor is it close to RIM– plus RIM won’t exist in 1 year’s time, lol.

I will take any man and wager these prices will collapse to $sub-200K within 5 years time, probably below $100K when RIM goes belly up.

#59 Actual Waterloo Resident on 02.11.12 at 2:16 am

HERE IT IS!

http://www.mcsrealestatewebsites.com/Agents/propertyDetail.cfm?lid=530318&id=1211600&AID=27927&sBrokerCode=hlpower&t=n

HAHAHAH! 2,400 sq ft? I added up the dimensions, maybe I’m a bit drunk (*cough cough*)… and despite having graduate education in Mathematics… I can’t get past 1,000 sq ft on the dimensions.

$539K. In Kitchener. On a semi claimed to be 2,400 sq ft, folks! does the drive way count? Does the circular roundabout count? Does the backyard count as part of the footage? I’m kind of confused.

#60 Roial1 on 02.11.12 at 2:18 am

#44Westernman on 02.11.12 at 12:45 am

So happy to see misogyny is alive and well in the 21st century.

#61 Small Steps on 02.11.12 at 2:24 am

“Most people are. Outta control. Confusing stuff for security. Debt for wealth. Want for need.”

Brilliant.

#62 george on 02.11.12 at 2:45 am

The Federal Reserve secretly selected a handful of banks to bid for debt securities acquired by taxpayers in the U.S. bailout of American International Group Inc., and the rest of Wall Street is wondering what happened to the transparency the central bank said it was committed to upholding.

“The exclusivity by which the process has shut out smaller dealers is a little un-American,” said David Castillo, head of sales and trading at broker Further Lane Securities LP in San Francisco, who said he would have liked to participate. “It seems odd that if you want to get the best possible price that it wouldn’t be open to anyone who wants to put in the most competitive bid.”

Fed Playing Favorites With Wall Street in Secretive Bond Deals: Mortgages

#63 frozen trumpet on 02.11.12 at 3:00 am

Great post Garth. I always learn something. Today it was about wants vs. needs. I often mourn for those great ranchers of the 50’s-70’s. The family unit was more cohesive with less space. I was just in L.A. and there are so many great small houses left. Saw an amazing exhibit at LACMA on “California Design – Mid-Century”. I hope we return to that someday…

#64 Preciousss on 02.11.12 at 3:07 am

Sounds like Jenny is going to be a great housekeeper.

#65 Peter Goesinya on 02.11.12 at 3:15 am

THIS GUY HAS TWO OPTIONS

1) divorce her ass now and pay child support
2) buy a house and get divorced a few years later when your broke.

Kick down the door and leave her ass.
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2011-05-03/Obama_kicks_door.gif

@Mel-#37
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/I_C_Weener/umad/Snob-YOU-SEEM-ANGRY-WHY-U-MAD-BRAH-.jpg

#66 Jody on 02.11.12 at 3:20 am

#12 Harlee

“Isn’t Calgary’s economy more diversified than just oil?”

Hahhahahaa! I wish it was but it ain’t. Oh sure, we have the housing developers but they are corrupt and have the local city managers and politicians in their backpockets, the bribes they have given out would make you blush or go pale, or perhaps do both. This stupid and ignorant city ran most innovative people away from it years ago with it’s ever increasing nanny state crap and NIMBYism. We’re talking about a city that gives one taxi company total control of airport taxis and hasn’t given out any new taxi mafia permission slips in more than a decade. Food trucks only came on the scene in 2011 and even then restaurants bitched and moaned till the cows came home. God forbid any established business in this city have competition. No this city or province wouldn’t know diversity if it smacked them in the face with a cricket bat, but then, what did you expect from the government, the most dumb, slow, and ignorant organizations in the universe.

As for Jenny and Jake, if they are stupid enough to buy in this city right now they deserve to lose it all, but that’s Calgary, it’s all about your status, not your brains. This is why I think the crash here is going to be HUGE, EnouRMOUS, unfrickenbelieveable.

“Oh, we just bought a place in Marda Loop/Rosedale, yes, nice and close to yoga and the natural foods store, hmm, we are raising 2 children who are geniuses. Kiss our butts because we are now important, we are raising the future of humanity, worship us, see our Lululalagagabooboo Lemon tights, we only read books that haven’t been published. Yes, we went to the farmers market and paid $400 a pound for organically, chemical, pesticide and hormone free prairie dog meat. We think spending $25 million dollars on a pedestrian bridge that looks like the inside of someone anus was a steal of a deal………”

#67 DonDWest on 02.11.12 at 3:21 am

Getting away with murder!

Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness; I need to calculate how to destroy the middle class! I’ll get them addicted to debt and punishment; real estate will be the driver that’s waiting for disaster. The prices will get irrational. I’ll create laws that make the bubble protectoral. I’ll suck them with low interest rates; yes I’m getting away with murder! The debt is inescapable, the collapse will be incomprehensible, and for the reality is I’m getting away with murder!

Getting away, getting away, getting away with murder!

I’ll sip my drink witnessing the carnage; I think my thoughts through because there are no consequences. I never even look back because I answer to no one, and I don’t need to, because I’m getting away with murder!

The drop in prices will get irrational, the higher interest rates will be inconceivable, my own house will be well protected, and I’ll pump my fists in the air as I’m getting away with murder! The debt is inescapable, the collapse will be incomprehensible, and for the reality is I’m getting away with murder!

Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness; I need to calculate how to make the masses beyond desperate. I’ll send their bodies flying into bullets for my dear little Israel – sacrificial lambs, dying to enforce the world’s greatest sacrilege going on in Palestine. Offered debt forgiveness will be my draft rate, for understand that I’m the master, and I’m craving this disaster!

I’m getting away, getting away, getting away with murder!

-Stephen Harper

#68 Blacksheep on 02.11.12 at 3:30 am

Westernman # 7,

“Let this be a lesson to you, gentlemen, NEVER EVER
let females make the financial calls – you WILL regret it.”
—————————————
Fundamentally I agree with you, but in my opinion,
a more subtle approach is required.

One must earn the right to captain the ship by demonstrating an ability to generate sufficient revenue and make the correct decisions when required, gaining the confidence of the crew.

take care
Blacksheep

#69 live within your means on 02.11.12 at 3:53 am

#33 Bast on 02.11.12 at 12:05 am
Just bought that Mazda Miata (used)! Who needs real estate in Cowtown when you can go full-on middle-aged crazy in a convertible!
………………

When I could finally afford a Miata it was too hard to get out of it. :-(

My oldest bro bought a used one, spent $$$ on it, then sold it – probably less than what he paid for it knowing him. Two yrs ago he bought another used one for ‘weekend’ outings with his wife.

#70 Chris scott on 02.11.12 at 3:59 am

@westernman shouldn’t be allowed unsupervised access on public forums :).

#71 Tony on 02.11.12 at 4:08 am

Jake needs to tell Jenny the infamous line “you must not like money”. Buying a house now would just reduce their net worth to zero as they’d be walking away from the house and throwing the keys in the door. Oil prices will tumble as will all commodity prices. Natural gas is holding the $2.50 trend line as it isn’t manipulated in price like oil.

#72 will buy on 02.11.12 at 4:10 am

How much should I offer for this one

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=11532253&PidKey=-512247825 ?

Thanks!

#73 P & T S on 02.11.12 at 4:26 am

#14 Marco in Vancouver –

If you go to the trouble to read Nostradamus the Mad Vlad’s links you will find them both relevant to the discussion, and you will note they broaden the perspective, to include events elsewhere that will in time influence the evolving situation in Canada. When it boils down to the decisions you WILL need to manage your future (financial and otherwise) ALL available information must be considered.

#74 Duckworth on 02.11.12 at 4:45 am

Reading this and I got to share my story:

Im in my mid thirties,married with 3yr old, and have never really thought about retirement, saving and all that stuff until very recently. My wife and I have only worked part time over the past 9 years and have even gone months without any income at all. We originally had about 30 K in a small residential development that was in pre-development stage. Basically this Lady needed some $$ to develop her old house and land and we trusted her (family friend) and more than quadrupled our $$ in about 2 years. We paid debts and bought a house, sold it and built an even bigger and fancier one. We have lived a good life, with vacations , stuff, and and easy coasting lifestyle that most would envy. The only reason we could do this was rising property values . I never thought of saving and just piled on debt and paid it down and then piled it on again …three times!!
We sold our last house in summer cuz i had a bad feeling about the market and where things headed. However we still have some debt , but we rent and can actually save a little or pay down the remaining debt (even with part time jobs only) . My wife still spends like it grows on trees and I dont think that will ever change. We are lucky in that we have good paying jobs and can go full time any time . My wife will not work full time (and she has a professional career but wants another baby) and I am going full time starting next month. i will buy again in the future but now have awakened and think about the costs I have to prepare for in retirement.
We are lucky in that we have good income , and will be ok if start saving and prudent investing.
However I think about those that aren’t as lucky and are taking on so much debt. Everybody finances everything and then acts like they are the ‘sheet’! I often wonder long this can last as property values cannot rise forever. If they did i would have kept up the same lifestyle forever…but somebody’s got to pay for it eventually , right??. My point is that there are too many people in that boat and that boat looks finally to be taking on water in Canada. I Also wonder about those much older that have not had the same realization I did at my age where there is still plenty of time to right the ship.
I m not a conspiracy theorist but you really got to wonder about the direct manipulation that can occur in markets these days. In 2007 (prior to american meltdown) my ex colleagues banker friend moved back to Canada from New York and brought ALL his $$$ with him and out of the danger zone. He apparently knew that bad things were coming wanted out. Interesting stuff indeed.

By the way , I agree with this blog but doubt what you said about a five-year mortgage being 7 % in 2017.

#75 Villain? on 02.11.12 at 5:33 am

Westernman…

I had some good replies to your ignorant comments,
But you are just not worth it!
Now, crawl back into your cave!

#76 Sebee on 02.11.12 at 5:52 am

Glad to see someone it taking advantage of the constrained supply situation in the GTA.

http://www.thestar.com/iphone/GTA/article/1129521

#77 carlyle on 02.11.12 at 6:08 am

#14 Marco from vancouver on 02.10.12 at 11:07 pm
I propose we ask smoking man, BPOe, devils advocate and the eponymous Le mad vlad to take a break from polluting the intellectual capital of this blog

Despite le mad vlad bashing my parents (which i suppose they deserved) i look forward to his daily links. crazy or not there is entertainment value there …. and occasionally kernals of truth.

#78 Roland on 02.11.12 at 6:17 am

@38

1. Post-secondary education costs are not going to keep rising faster than the overall rate of inflation. Education, a bit like housing, is in a “bubble” mode. Prices are getting inflated by cheap debt and gov’t subsidies (both direct and indirect). I don’t know when this trend is going to stop, but it will stop.

2. I think that $5000/mo. is a pretty lavish lifestyle for two people, even before tax. With the home paid for, little other debt, and some very modest expectation from gov’t and DC employment pensions, a couple should not need fabulous sums invested in order to retire. Note that only a fairly small minority of Canadians born post-1960 are likely to suffer from clawbacks, since median wages during their working years will have been fairly stagnant.

3. Are you aware that Canadians today work more hours per week than they did 20 or 30 years ago? Are you aware that the percentage of the Canadian population currently employed is near its all-time high? Indeed, seen in global and historical terms Canada’s labour force participation ratio is almost bizarrely high. Canadians work, and they actually work quite a bit. Productivity growth, while not world-leading, hasn’t exactly been bad, either. Lack of willingness to work is not the problem. The problem is that productivity gains have not been received as wage gains, due to lack of negotiating power for labour in a world market.

4. You complain about “socialism,” but Canada was more socialistic 20-30 years ago. But real wages per capita were rising faster back then. People and governments were both less indebted, too.

Not that Canada was ever close to anything that you could call “socialism.” The accurate term to describe Canada of the 70’s and 80’s would be “mixed-economy welfare state,” i.e. mostly private capitalist ownership but with a progressive income tax, some redistributive programs, and a government ownership presence in the transport and utility sectors.

Socialism, when for real, means distributed ownership, not redistributed taxes. A workers’ state is not a welfare state, and a hardcore socialist detests the milk-veined welfare state as much as any laissez-faire capitalist would.

#79 nickolaos vlittas on 02.11.12 at 7:02 am

This blog is the best! I mean it. Those stone tablets that Moses dragged down from a mountain with 10 rules on how we all can be successful in life are nothing compared to this. I love the comment section. It’s like sitting in the audience of The Price Is Right during the early 80’s. Sure they’re all freaks with big hair shouting out the price of what a cheery-oak dining room set would cost (“Bob, I’m going to go with $1) but it’s all fun. The only critique I have is that no one, even Garth, has given a time and date of this so-called real estate crash here in the True North Strong and Free. With all that is happening in the US, Ireland, Syria, etc. similar to what’s happening here, why can’t anyone predict the moment when everything falls to pieces? Well? Can anyone take a guess? I’m going to say October 18, 10:44am, it’s a Thursday.

Until then, Make love, not macaroni art.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMttYVj_9o

#80 Buyright on 02.11.12 at 7:20 am

Garth has competition:

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1129376–toronto-real-estate-why-home-is-where-the-hurt-is?bn=1

http://fmlistings.tumblr.com/

#81 Purrfect on 02.11.12 at 7:37 am

Garth, don’t waste anymore time on Jake and Jenny… once the lady of the house has her mind made up it’s game over

#82 Herb on 02.11.12 at 7:52 am

#14 Marco from vancouver [sic],

if you think that finances happen in a political vacuum, you know nothing about either. But I share your disdain for partisan or ideological commenters.

#83 House on 02.11.12 at 8:11 am

So these are the people Canada’s Idiot Finance Minister thinks can adjust their retirement plans after he cuts their OAS. Maybe Jenny should ask her MOM how having no retirement savings is working out for her, she lives with them and apparetly has no income.

#84 Pr on 02.11.12 at 8:14 am

Garth the situation of Jake is very serious, I was involve in that , energies consuming situation. Jake, look at her, now and imagine when real estate getting the correction, and your house in worth less than you own. She is gonna be 2-3 times worst! Stay firm, in your position, be kind, you are the man. She will tank you later.

Imagine you are the same man in the same situation , in 2006, in Miami, Phoenix, ANY WHERE in USA.
Do you think those wifes or girl friends are not happy now to follow the man who decide to sell before the crash. I guess they are…more than you think.

#85 Grimbot on 02.11.12 at 9:05 am

Property doesn’t sell….agent still gets commission….court rules it fair

http://realestate.yourmoney.ca/2012/02/is-commission-without-a-sale-fair.html

#86 Grimbot on 02.11.12 at 9:12 am

Politicians in Alberta as well as the Harper neocons have a complete lack of economic vision. Rather than build a multi-billion dollar pipeline to ship Canadian crude to refineries and petro chemical plants in Houston….the Alberta and Harperites should be investing money in Canada to create more refineries and a petro chemical industry in Alberta…..this would create sustainable jobs in Canada…..not just a few thousand for a hair-brained pipeline project. Same is true for building a pipeline to the BC coast to ship crude to China.

Jeezzzz….its no wonder this country lacks innovation….there’s none in the political leadership.

#87 yorel on 02.11.12 at 9:16 am

“Most people are. Outta control. Confusing stuff for security. Debt for wealth. Want for need.”
Love it.

#88 bigrider on 02.11.12 at 9:58 am

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1129376–toronto-real-estate-why-home-is-where-the-hurt-is?bn=1

I thought this was a fair article explaining why home prices in T.O may continue to gain.

Just saying.

#89 Canadian Watchdog on 02.11.12 at 10:08 am

#78 Roland

Not sure where you’re getting stats from. Canadians are working less hours: 1945 43.9hrs, 1970 41hrs, 2011 36.2hrs. This is based on StatsCan and The University of Toronto working papers.

#90 truth hammer on 02.11.12 at 10:17 am

I began to notice that there were too many coincidental stories about young people joining the military for the ‘free’ education for service contract option because they’re parents couldn’t afford tuition …..and……they couldn’t get a student loan because the parents made too much money.

First point……the military isn’t a career opp….it is the military ……and people get killed after they are sent into a war zone…..such as Canada has a policy of getting involved in shooting wars.

Second….how the hell could you have screwed up so badly that you can’t finance the kids education who lives at home when tuition is less than $5 grand a year? Is trading your kids tuition to the military for a life of servitude worth the savings? Is this the hidden cost of greedy house over zealous horniness and covetous real estate lust to make up for a short weenie?

There are obviously a lot of well heeled losers who are living day to day….and not own the pot they pee pee in. Looooohooooozereerzzzzzzzzz !! Big house don’t make for a big pyjama tent…..everyone who can access your credit rating knows that.

heres a twist…….here in BKK we are inundated with a virtual tsunami of Iranians who have been flooding the stores on massive shopping tours. They are buying case lot amounts of everything that they can not get hold of now that the banks can’t process Iranian LOC’s for the import/export trade and the ships are turning back for fear of non payment…already the rice shippers are boycotting trade because they haven’t been paid for months. Toothpaste…..shampoo…bar soap….booze…..etc etc etc …everything in a box or a bottle. Its like a reverse refugee wave over the border of a war zone. The newest sanctions of the Iranian central bank against international transactions in and out od Iran is obviously working.

#91 RN on 02.11.12 at 10:30 am

“Fifth, can you eat drywall?” –

How stupid. Can you live in financial assets?

Of course. Liquid assets buy anything. — Garth

#92 Daisy Mae on 02.11.12 at 10:34 am

#7 WESTERNMAN: “Let this be a lesson to you, gentlemen, NEVER EVER let females make the financial calls – you WILL regret it…”

*****************************

I know some men who are pretty damn stupid when it comes to finances…. :)

#93 househornyhousewife on 02.11.12 at 10:36 am

Garth,

That story made me shiver. The idea of being 40-ish with two very young children and nothing in the bank … brrr !!

Indeed wanting to buy a house would make things worse but if you ask me, things are already pretty bad financially speaking if you want to retire in 25 years and you still have two children to raise.

What about buying a triplex type place with a large first floor and renting the upper two floors in order to cover the mortgage payments, taxes and expenses ? You would still have to tie up the downpayment though and start saving from scratch .. however, if you do things wisely, it might work.

Just a thought.

HHHW

#94 Canuck Abroad on 02.11.12 at 10:52 am

Jake, you are doomed. If you don’t buy a house Jenny will leave you. If you do buy a house your finances will be ruined, you will be broke and Jenny will leave you anyway. So buy the house. Here is why. Your net worth is only $45k each (peanuts, really). If you split up now, you will have to pay child support AND you will not see much of your kids. You will burn through the $45k on child support and paying for two households in no time. However, if you buy the house Jenny might not leave you for several years. You avoid not seeing your children grow up and you avoid paying child support. When the time comes for Jenny to ditch you because you are broke, hand her the keys to the house and wish her well. You are only out of pocket the $45k you have now. You can start over, she can deal with the burden of the house. This is the better outcome for you.

#95 Daisy Mae on 02.11.12 at 10:58 am

#51fifo on 02.11.12 at 1:17 am
#7 Westernman

“UUUUUhhhhhh, if it wasn’t for me, my hubby and I would both be t**s up in vancouver… thankfully it’s only him, but he likes it that way ;)”

*********************

‘Amen’ to all of the above!

#96 D-Dawg on 02.11.12 at 11:00 am

#71 Tony ….Oil prices will tumble….

C’man bra, you think oil prices are going to tumble? Tumble as in tumble to 50, or 70$/bbl . When are they going to tumble?

Smarten up, zero street ‘cred with that statement.

#97 Mythbuster on 02.11.12 at 11:27 am

Garth:

Re: “In technical terms… “

Time and again with your sense of humour, you make me laugh so hard I repeat saying to myself: This guy could get the best promotional value for his investment advisory business by having a ‘real-estate /economic stand-up comedy show’. Include a stand-up comedy piece wherever he appears in person.

I am not a marketing ‘type’ but I sure appreciate a good sense of humour. How good my ‘advice’ is – I don’t know. But I mention this because the thought is a recurrent theme in my mind.

All the best!

#98 Retired in Kelowna on 02.11.12 at 11:29 am

Phil #47. How long ago did you and your wife go to University?? Man – you are out of touch.
I have two kids, one is now a Librarian – graduated in 2010(Bachelors Degree and Masters – required), the other one is in Medical School – will graduate in 2014.
Total Cost for both of them when the dust clears: Over $200,000 and that’s with both of them living at home while doing their Bachelor’s Degrees!

#99 BPOE on 02.11.12 at 11:49 am

FOLKS, FOLKS, FOLKS! Folks, Vancouver is world class now! I mean we have stop lights but not four-way stop lights, folks. Hey, we’re working on it, folks, and will probably get those four way ones in a decade or two because we are progressive, folks! Folks, we have a TWO LANE highway, folks!!! And it will get shoulders sometime in 2030, folks!!! We are amazing, folks! Okay okay okay, well it is more of a road but you can go like 60kmp on it! It is AMAZING! Have you ever seen so much outdated green glass and leaky condos in your life!?!? There is nothing on earth like it which is why we are youneek and not stupid like the American and Junius! Sure its ugly as sin but it is here in Vancouver where mountains meet water!!! There is no other place on earth where that happens, except for Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Neice, Marsailles, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Seattle, Honolulu, Hong Kong, and a shit tonne of others where its warmer with less douchebaggery and a tonne more to do than here in Vancouver. We don’t like doing things and activities ssand shit that are worthwhile here because it will only encourage people to get a job of which we have none. Our quality of life here has been slipping for the past four years according to all the major publications, but it don’t matter because we have better weather than Antarctica! Hey, folks, we’re BPOE, folks, folks! Nevermind China is imploding right now and their population has less than halved coming into Vancouver in the last year! It don’t matter. Nevermind the country is slipping into recession and rates are going to push up. Hell, the BMO teaser rate of 2.99% no longer exists, but it don’t matter. I don’t care we have the highest child poverty rate in the entire country either because this is BPOE and I don’t like children. So it will keep it as the BPOE, folks, because they kan’t afford to live here and they will have to move, folks! You just don’t get it, folks. Canadians kan’t afford it so you are just mad at me, folks! But all this HAM can afford it even though it isn’t really coming in like it was. Pay no attention that Richmond real estate, folks, is sitting on the market over four times longer than it was just a year ago, folks, folks, folks, folks. We have an exit rate exceeding our entry rate, so negative growth is going to be a thing in the future, but it don’t matter because like 200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 rich Chinese people want to move here! It is true because my managing broker told me! I mean I’ve been saying that for years now and I am sure it is going to happen any day now and not just the fraction of that amount that we see here right now. I’m not sure, folks, why that hasn’t already happened because I KNOW they all want to move here and not places like third world countries like America because my life depends on it. Folks, sure, America is pulling out of recession and jobless numbers are looking stronger every week, manufacturing is improving, trade deficit is improving, they own the world’s reserve currency, took top spot for quality of life two years in a row, have a lot of jobs now, but it is still third world because they have “unwanted” people there who are gross and werk at places like mcdonalds, unlike us. I sure hope that the Chinese economy imploding right now doesn’t affect the numbers that are supposed to move here soon. Gee whiz! That would really suck like I sucked crowdedelevatorfartz for the past year, folks. Speaking of which, you owe me a trip to the clinic, Mr. Man! We’ll talk later about it when you corner me in the alley off Robson. For those of you who don’t know crowdedelevatorfartz is my boyfriend who loves me a lot and often even sets me up on dates with other men who give me money at the end of the date. That is a good thing cause, folks, I have not sold a house in like six months but thats because I’ve been focused on my relationship with crowdedelevatorfartz, even though he takes most of my date money. Anyway back on track. We are unstopable, folks, nevermind that our prices in the whole metro Vancouver area are already slipping! Don’t pay attention to reports, folks! Only pay attention to what I say because I am edjukated and trustwerthy.

#100 Wage Slave on 02.11.12 at 11:53 am

29 Ex-Cowtown on 02.11.12 at 12:00 am:

Did you even bother to read the f-cking article you posted? The guy feels “duped” because of climate change activists’ nearly exclusive focus on CO2 emissions, rather than explaining to the public that there’s a constellation of factors that contribute to climate change.

By only focusing on C02 emissions, the effects of which, in his opinion, aren’t as immediately serious as the most extreme computer models predict, he feels that the public won’t buy in to the whole argument for developing alternative energy sources.

But, hey, don’t take my word for it:

SPIEGEL: Why are you taking on the role of the climate rebel with such passion? Where does this rage come from?

Vahrenholt: For years, I disseminated the hypotheses of the IPCC, and I feel duped. Renewable energy is near and dear to me, and I’ve been fighting for its expansion for more than 30 years. My concern is that if citizens discover that the people who warn of a climate disaster are only telling half the truth, they will no longer be prepared to pay higher electricity costs for wind and solar (energy). Then the conversion of our energy supply will lack the necessary acceptance.

[...]

SPIEGEL: So, is it a mistake to concentrate exclusively on the reduction of carbon dioxide?

Vahrenholt: Yes. In addition to carbon dioxide, we also have black soot, for example. It creates 55 percent of the warming effect of CO2, but it could be filtered out with little effort within a few years, especially in emerging and developing countries. And, in doing so, we would achieve huge benefits for human health.

#101 Mr. Lee on 02.11.12 at 11:53 am

Mr. Turner hit the nail on the head.
I have lived in Calgary all of my 40 years, have witnessed 3 recessions and 2 booms. All in all the standard of living here is anywhere from 10 to 15 percent more expensive than Edmonton depending on the inputs used. Too many Calgarians suffer from what I refer to as, “Calgary Diseases.” Basically this means keeping up with the Jones’, everyone should live like an oil exec, and how much leverage can anyone acquire at one time. Sure, there are a lot of jobs here pouring coffee at Timmies, sure that is a lot of overpriced real-estate. But keep this in mind, my wife and I spent 186K on a brand new home in 2002. Now that same home to replace costs well over 400K. As I am a professional, my pay has gone up, but not in proportion to the cost of replacing my house. Keep also in mind that our Provincial leaders keep on musing about the introduction of a sales tax sooner than later to offset resources revenue. This does not sound like the Promised Land that it is made out to be. For anyone that is thinking of relocating here, please keep my words in mind. I am not trying to dissuade you , but give some sense of the Calgary reality. If you do want to come out here, I would suggest spend a few weeks here first then decide. I think you may be very surprised and educated as to the realities of this place

#102 BPOE on 02.11.12 at 12:01 pm

See, folks, we’re in a balloon!!! Not a bubble!!! Wait, woops. This article from bloomberg says its a bubble :-( Aahhhhhh fiddlesticks!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/canada-courts-housing-bubble-imf-sees-as-risk-with-record-rates-mortgages.html

Or this one!!!
http://vancouvercondo.info/2011/12/chinese-housing-bubble-collapse.html

Or this one!!!
http://www.thetrumpet.com/9087.7872.0.0/economy/canadas-housing-bubble-is-stretched-to-the-limit

Or this one!!!
http://www.economist.com/node/21546057

Or this one!!!
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/01/26/what-happens-when-canadas-housing-bubble-pops/

#103 Canadian Watchdog on 02.11.12 at 12:04 pm

The most important non-news story of the month.

Read http://www.fin.gc.ca/n12/12-014-eng.asp

Then read http://www.bankofcanada.ca/about/backgrounders/intervention-foreign-exchange-market/

Bye bye Canadian dollar. Hello $2000 Gold.

Canada issues foreign currency-denominated bonds on a regular basis. Your agenda is showing. — Garth

#104 Wage Slave on 02.11.12 at 12:17 pm

27 ScottyD on 02.10.12 at 11:44 pm:

What is it about his tripe that you find so worthwhile? The part where he encourages you to exploit people, or the part where he reveals his complete inability to grasp physics?

If you’re looking to an internet stranger for some larger, universal truth in your life, it really makes me wonder what your parents did to mess you up so badly.

If you have gained nothing from Smoking Mans posts, I suggest you re-read them. Underneath the “drunk at the bar that everyone laughs at” are some of the most valuable lessons you may ever learn.

#105 Tony on 02.11.12 at 12:29 pm

Re: #88 bigrider on 02.11.12 at 9:58 am

They can’t gain in price as they’re falling in price as we speak. 95 percent of the time the exact right time to sell a house is when interest rates hit an absolute bottom. Conversely the best time to buy a house 90 percent of the time is when interest rates hit an absolute peak. Times have changed in the economic cycle but that’s what worked in the past.

#106 DoomedinSask on 02.11.12 at 12:29 pm

Westernman is just bitter bitter 50y/o man living in his mothers basement eating her kraft dinner and playing video games. Ignore him.

#107 Jimmy on 02.11.12 at 12:32 pm

#85 Grimbot …yes its totally fair because the agent did what he was hired to do….the seller is a typical greedy moron.

#108 eaglebay - Parksville on 02.11.12 at 12:33 pm

#33 Bast on 02.11.12 at 12:05 am
“Just bought that Mazda Miata (used)! Who needs real estate in Cowtown when you can go full-on middle-aged crazy in a convertible!”
———-
Hope you’re a women. This is quite the girly car.

#109 Snowboid on 02.11.12 at 12:33 pm

#36 West coaster on 02.11.12 at 12:14 am…

Actually the interior noise level of a Prius is like riding in a covered go-kart – and we test drove several trims levels.

The fuel economy and emissions of even a larger H/D, say a Road King, are better on the highway than a Prius and close to the same overall.

If you look at the overall pollution footprint (including construction and raw materials) the Prius is far worse than any Harley.

#110 jess on 02.11.12 at 12:38 pm

400 or 90

Sakhalin gas to fuel Far East gasification — RTrt.com/business/news/exxonmobil-gazprom-gas-stock-sale-895/Cached

Russia wants the gas to go to the domestic market. Export gas goes for about $400 per thousand cubic metres, as compared to $90 within …/
Gazprom says it will use the gas from Sakhalin-1 to supply the Russian Far East gasification programme, which intends to provide gas to towns and villages in the region.
==
saturday cartoons ann coulter speaking out for insurance?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/10/ann-coulter-cpac-speech-i_n_1268852.html

insurance scam
http://www.thekomisarscoop.com/2008/12/aigs-past-could-return-to-haunt

#111 eaglebay - Parksville on 02.11.12 at 12:44 pm

#38 nonplused on 02.11.12 at 12:16 am

Good post, except for Apple.
Apple is a marketing company. Not much innovation.
They first came up with the iPod. All they did since is improve the product. Added a phone and called it the iPhone. Then, made it bigger and called it iPad.
They don’t even manufacture anything.
Don’t get me wrong I love their products. I’m a heavy user of the iPad, iPhone and iTunes.

#112 Harlee on 02.11.12 at 12:45 pm

#66 Jody
Okay…thanks for replying to my post (I guess). Your post was more like a frustrated rant but I can understand it. That bit about the city politicians being in the back pocket of developers isn’t unique to Calgary though. I see some of it going on here in Saskatoon too.There is one property developer family here in the city who managed to wrangle an expensive”Arts Centre” (live theatre) with their name in big lights smeared on it ,from the city .Now they “need” an $80 million art gallery built next to it ! The current art gallery,built and funded in the sixties by Fred Mendel (meat packer mogul) could be expanded for a fraction of the cost ,but no…that’s not good enough anymore. Obscene spending by city hall for inflated egos is what it is.

#113 Bill Gable on 02.11.12 at 12:51 pm

So he smiled and said, “we swung the deal”. My ex TV executive genius pal, just got an offer accepted on their sixth condo.
He explained how, since he had no pension from 40 years in TV, he and his brain dead wife bought all the condos, and rent them out. They tricked them all up with the LOC money from earkier condos. ( i needed to call a Doctor at this point).
I tried to tell him about this blog, two years ago. I begged him to consider selling everything over a year ago and get liquid.
Nope.
Two cars. Six mortgages, and he sorta blushed when the lunch ended. After grandly sweeping up the bill at Timmmy’s for two coffee and two muffins, his credit card was refused (this is like $12.00) – he went blue, I swear. I paid.
As we awkwardly packed up our ubiquitous Vancouver rain gear, he stopped and said, ” the credit cards are really driving me crazy…we have 4 and we have run them up, after the trip to Africa.

As he drove away in his, no doubt leased, BMW SUV, I couldn’t help but think, that Mr. Turner has it right.

Screwed. Thousands of people.

The Trillion dollar question is – how to fix this mess.

I saved all my life, so is Ottawa going to ask us prudent folks to ponyup for morons like this?

Good luck with that.

#114 Gregor Samsa on 02.11.12 at 12:54 pm

#12 Harlee, Calgary, and most of Alberta for that matter, is a one trick pony: oil and gas. If that industry dried up, you would see an exodus out of Alberta of biblical proportions.

Over the past 7 years that I have lived in Calgary, I have seen the economic diversity only go DOWN as other sectors (high tech, manufacturing) have closed up and moved on. The government is oblivious as their tiny cut of oil revenues is the only thing that keeps them going.

#115 Dragonslayer on 02.11.12 at 12:54 pm

Re: university costs. Depends on what program of course, and where, but basic undergrad should be around $6000 to $7000 a year, assuming your kids live at home.
Don’t know where one comes up with $100,0000, again unless you are talking an advanced degree in a specialized area.
Always believed parents should not pay the whole way, and kids should be expected to work and contribute to the cost of their education. That way they will appreciate it.

#116 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 12:55 pm

Weekend off-topic:

Question for the bikers: near me is parked two Suzuki motorbikes. They look like 1970s models,very large single cylinder (500cc?), low thin seats, high handlebars. Appear to be stock. What are they?
Caught this cager’s eye.

(This awful weblog focuses on bikes, babes, and balanced portfolios).

#117 DonDWest on 02.11.12 at 1:02 pm

#94 Canuck Abroad

Unfortunately, you’re correct. The lesser of two evils is that Jake buys the house. Divorce is considerably less expensive when the kids are older versus younger. And if he holds on to his 45K; he can’t file bankruptcy in the event of divorce, which sadly is inevitably what he needs to do. Just buy a house for the kids the next 5 or so years, and when Jenny wants to divorce you when you’re broke, file bankruptcy in court claiming you have nothing left to give. Last but not least, leave the country once this is finished, and don’t look back.

Keeping the 45K just results in you paying for the house later anyways in child support payments (and you don’t even get to stay in the house and see the kids).
Jake, I think you’re smart enough to realize your marriage is finished; it’s only a question of when.

Preparation is key, along with the acknowledgements that yes at age 40 something you’ll have to start over. Fortunately for us men we can do just that at any age provided we’re healthy. As long as you get rid of societal pressures such as you must continue to live in Canada and have a woman; you should do fine in the second life. Though, you’re going to have to change perspective.

My last bit of advice is you must try to keep healthy both mentally and physically during this transition. Go out of your way to be healthier than you’ve ever been. Starting over at 45 isn’t so bad when through working out you have the body of a 30 year old.

#118 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 1:02 pm

#94 Canuck Abroad RE “Cheaper to keep ‘er” theory:

Damn that nesting instinct!

Also damn the inability of the average person (men included) to understand basic financial calculations and budgeting.

I would agree with the Canuck in this case. Nothing good can come of this couple overbuying, but if he cares to help raise his kids, perhaps it’s the least painful option.

#119 sam.i.am on 02.11.12 at 1:08 pm

@turnernation, you gotta give us more clues. take a look at the bikes here:

http://www.bikez.com/brand/suzuki_motorcycles.php?page=13&sort=year

#120 rosie on 02.11.12 at 1:09 pm

Beware #111 apple bashers. Apple only markets. Well their marketing has produced one of the wealthiest companies on earth. ipod-itunes-ipad-iphone. Apple reinvented digital media. Sounds like innovation to me. Probably why your a heavy user.

#121 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 1:11 pm

115 Dragonslayer: Tuition is probably $6 to $10K, books probably a G note, and the rest of the crap (transit or gas/parking, meals, etc.) is a wash because dealing with work has pretty well the same expenses.

Where the costs of a post-secondary education add up in a hurry is “lost opportunity” soft cost.

If one assumes that you are foregoing a full time job to be a full time student, every year of post-secondary education costs at least $20,000 per year.

That’s steep. If you’re going to do the higher education thing, you’d better either be financially independent or have a solid plan on how it’s going to help you recoup value for investment over the long term.

#122 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 1:19 pm

Attn. new Blog Dogs:

The following user names are still available. Choose yours today!

Smoking Girl
Beach Man
Shelly Cooter
FEMA Camper
Raging Cager
Ben Burn-a-yankee (Fed Chairman)

Reserved: Blog Dog Carney

#123 live within your means on 02.11.12 at 1:21 pm

#49 West Coast Heathen on 02.11.12 at 1:11 am
#47 Ex-Cowtown on 02.11.12 at 1:09 am #36 West coaster on 02.11.12 at 12:14 am Garth,

The Prius is quiet and emissions are extremely low. Unlike a Harley,noise and air pollution.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And now you got it! That IS the point of a Harley.

Dare to be sub-optimal!! Ride a Harley!! (or a Road Star which is just as much fun as a Harley but doesn’t piss oil all over your garage floor like an incontinent chihuahua)

=============================

Just make sure you wear your black and white leathers; you know, the ones made out of Killer Whale hide.
……………………….

LOL – Hubby has 2 old BMW bikes. He buys v. expensive, protective biker clothing & boots (not leather) when we’re in Europe. He rides with some Harley friends who wear leathers & half the time he comes home alone cause their tosterone got the better of them.

#124 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 1:35 pm

Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad

I appreciate your links and news round-ups. Today it’s vitally important we keep our eye on the global ball.
At home they distract us with unsolvable issues and other topics: F-35s, “terrorists”, Burqa, Sharia, Israel, record bank profits, big pharma flu scares (are we due for another one?) real estate, our now-two-party system, and so on.

#125 Al on 02.11.12 at 1:47 pm

Save your marriage and buy a house for your family – especially if the maket is slow. Oil and gas will keep Alberta booming.

#126 Kilby on 02.11.12 at 1:58 pm

#108 Eaglebay Parksville

#33 Bast on 02.11.12 at 12:05 am
“Just bought that Mazda Miata (used)! Who needs real estate in Cowtown when you can go full-on middle-aged crazy in a convertible!”
———-
Hope you’re a women. This is quite the girly car.

#33 Bast.
Be comfortable in the fact that the Mazda has been on of the most popular “driver’s” cars lists by virtually every auto magazine for as long as they have been made. Many expensive cars are often compared to in testing, I drove MGB’s, Austin Healys, Triumphs and if I wanted a fun, reliable responsive summer car I would not hesitate to buy one of these. Maybe women buy them because they are a real value, good performer and don’t cost a fortune to maintain.

#127 The Thing in the Basement on 02.11.12 at 2:01 pm

98 Retired and 115 Dragonslayer – thanks for the posts. Looks like I will have to fund PSEd for my youngest, starting next year. Still have some working years ahead of me and no mortgage. I hear a broad range of costs. Can anybody recommend a primer on how to estimate it? I could do that myself, but better to have some
guidelines or ranges to work with. Thanks.

I have 6 yr PSE myself. Cost to my parents? Maybe 18 mo R & B. Student loans less than $10k (but that was a long time ago)

#128 Darlene on 02.11.12 at 2:06 pm

116 TurnerNation

Is this what you were seeing?

http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/t5002.htm

#129 Junius on 02.11.12 at 2:09 pm

Smoking Man:

I’m glad you like the thought of having your own Pet Monkey.

May I suggest that if you do get one, feed it a mild diet, it is better for their constipation (softer) and this has many benefits that you will enjoy during the cold winter nights.

Try it, you might like it I say.

Your Fan

Junius
ps. Mr. Junius Jr. say’s hello

#130 Cato on 02.11.12 at 2:14 pm

Jake, you are living in a town prone to booms & busts. Look at your situation objectively. What are the dangers in renting a few years now that home prices have clearly shown signs of topping? I’d say none. What are the dangers of buying? Potential economic ruin. You don’t put your family at risk during times like these, let the waters calm a bit before making a life altering decision.

Garth’s right, we are moving into recession. Didn’t have to be this way but we are heading towards economic conditions that we’ve never seen before. We’ve somehow been goaded into the belief that regardless of how we’ve behaved in Canada a US “recovery” will bring us back to the glory days of the way things were. Its not going to happen.

A strengthening US economy means inflation risk, but the US can’t combat it with rate hikes due to the debt overhang from the bubble. A bit of inflation is the lesser of two evils, its what policy makers want. A weakening USD is seen as advantageous, it makes the american worker more competitive and right now jobs matter.

What does this mean for Canada? It means our greatest trading partner is set to become our greatest competitor in alot of areas. The Canadian economy will adapt but that adaptation won’t be easy. Trade relationships are complex, no-one can tell with absolute whether certain sectors will thrive or decline in the midst of change. You may be quite certain your job is secure, I’d say very few have true job security in this environment. Everyone needs to be cautious, don’t make any big financial moves until the dust has settled and you are confident your income is truly secure.

#131 Phil on 02.11.12 at 2:18 pm

@98 Retired in Kelowna,

I graduated in 2004, articled until 2007. I did 4 years in 3. Every semester got a 5k bursary/grant that is available to everyone. Racked up 20k in loans. Worked on weekends, lived off very little.

Wife grad of 04 and law school 08. She spread undergrad out and worked as well, again living off very little. Most if not all of her 40k came from law school.

@Garth, I said 60k for two and we both have post grad degrees/designations. The point I am making is that if you rack up 100k for your undergrad (and I know nobody that has even come close (inflation adjusted for the future)) then you are extremely lazy/spoiled/entitled. It’s unrealistic.

#132 Fabrega on 02.11.12 at 2:24 pm

#14 Marco from Vancouver

Mental pollution indeed!

#133 Westernman on 02.11.12 at 2:27 pm

TurnerNation@#116,
Re: “What are they?”
Answer: Junk.

#134 Harlee on 02.11.12 at 2:32 pm

#114 Gregor S.
I knew years ago that Calgary specialized in oil(had an uncle who worked for Mobil in the 70s & 80s,now retired) but if they haven’t branched out in other business sectors/minerals by now then I can see were they’ll have tough times…
Anyway,I won’t worry about “the prairies” for awhile.I’m off to Vancouver for a week. How many “For Sale” signs will I see ? How many condos being built ? How many empty ? I want to out check out and see if the little tear-down shack on Rupert & 29th is still standing. A REAL tear-down but I imagine the lot must be worth something…Vancouver -now there’s a real interesting town…..!

#135 Smoking Man on 02.11.12 at 2:38 pm

#27 ScottyD

Tanks Scotty, with fans like you I will never leave this great patetic site..ooops, excuse me I just puked on my self, I should of never drunk dat rubbing alcohol. I’m back at the casino today, I managed to steal some money from one of my loser sons…I hope he dosent catch me.

#136 Junius on 02.11.12 at 2:43 pm

#99 BPOE,

RE: Vancouver is World Class

The title “World Class” can mean just about anything depending on what we are talking about. Vancouver has “World Class” sushi and restaurants. It has some “World Class” aspects to its environment and lifestyle depending our your tastes. However in terms of economic activity it is not World Class and does not compare to the cites you mention.

The simple fact is that average salaries in Vancouver are behind even Canadian cities such as Toronto and Calgary. This is even with a higher basic cost of living.

We lack major corporations and head office in comparison to both Toronto and Calgary. However when you start comparing us to the world capitals you mentioned it is a joke. Compare Vancouver to Seattle is bad enough – where is our Amazon, Microsoft or even Starbucks? Does Lululemon compare? Hardly.

Do we rate when compared to San Francisco (Apple, Intel, Google, Facebook, on and on) or let’s not even go there with New York, London or Tokyo.

The thing that Vancouver lacks more than anything are anchor corporations that will pay high salaries and compete on a global level. I believe part of the blame should be placed on the “best place on earth” crowd who have lulled us into a false sense of economic security.

An economy driven by foreign speculators quickly becomes imbalanced and unproductive. The entire economic ethos of Vancouver has been poisoned by the toxic notion that asset speculation is equivalent to wealth created by productivity gains.

The notion that Vancouver is a Monaco is just silly. Monaco is a tax haven enclave in Europe that exists for the super rich and mostly for those who want to hide their wealth from tax collectors. 20 minutes in either direction from Monaco you see a different economic reality in Italy or France. Vancouver has more than its share of people moving here to avoid responsibilities elsewhere. The fact that we encourage this is quite remarkable and another example of how toxic the local attitude is. However these speculators will flee at the first opportunity of a better deal elsewhere or a dropping market.

BTW – looks like the Chinese investors you predicted are not arriving. Year of the Dragon indeed. Mythical creatures and mythical investors.

#137 City Slicker on 02.11.12 at 2:46 pm

#111 eaglebay – Parksville on 02.11.12 at 12:44 pm

#38 nonplused on 02.11.12 at 12:16 am

Good post, except for Apple.
Apple is a marketing company. Not much innovation.
They first came up with the iPod. All they did since is improve the product. Added a phone and called it the iPhone. Then, made it bigger and called it iPad.
They don’t even manufacture anything.
Don’t get me wrong I love their products. I’m a heavy user of the iPad, iPhone and iTunes.
———————————————————-
This is bang on. They were not even the first with an ipad similar device. It was out there just not competitive with the lap top. Once they had the ipod technology and were a huge name because of it, they were able to create the spin off ipad and marketed it well. Mainly because of the Apple name by that point.

#138 Canadian Watchdog on 02.11.12 at 2:46 pm

“Canada issues foreign currency-denominated bonds on a regular basis. Your agenda is showing. — Garth”

I suggest to read it again and do your homework. The last US denominated ‘global’ bond issuance was in 2009, being the fist time in over 10 years. I wouldn’t consider that a regular basis.

The BoC is losing firepower, so they must expand (print) their balance sheet to buy more bonds in order to keep rates down for an extended period of time. http://i41.tinypic.com/25ouixu.png

Carney’s message should be clear—he will devalue the CAN (to boost exports) before ever lifting rates. The bond market is way ahead of this and has been leaving in droves into emerging economies. http://i44.tinypic.com/hu0cd2.png

Policy decisions such as this are fundamental shifts.

#139 Wage Slave on 02.11.12 at 2:47 pm

121 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 1:11 pm

If one assumes that you are foregoing a full time job to be a full time student, every year of post-secondary education costs at least $20,000 per year.

That’s steep. If you’re going to do the higher education thing, you’d better either be financially independent or have a solid plan on how it’s going to help you recoup value for investment over the long term.

Where can an unskilled 18 year old get a job that pays above minimum wage? I’m all for apprenticeships, but there are fewer and fewer shops willing to take on newbies without at least some college first.

As for having a plan on how to recoup your investment over the long term, for many, university education is the plan. It’s been sold to high school students and their parents as the way to get ahead for at least two decades now. Increasingly, applicants need graduate level education (i.e., more than a Bachelors degree) in order for a firm to justify hiring them.

It must have been a while since you’ve had to think about entry level work, because your ideas don’t approach the reality facing young people today.

I’d be interested in hearing how you think an average 18 year old can make a go of it without some tertiary education first. If you have kids, what are you telling them to do post-high school? And don’t say fabricating a resume and lying to the interviewers, that’s bullshit.

#140 LS in Arbutus on 02.11.12 at 3:00 pm

While reading the blog, just now, I got a pre-recorded call that went something like this:

“Due to a national crisis – call a debt counselor to help you consolidate your unsecured debt. We can cut your debt by thousands.. blah blah blah”

Since I live on the West side of Van, I guess they think I need the help. Not me, I sold in 2011, and rent now, I am fine, thanks! Must suck to be some people.

Nothing listed at over 3 million in my ‘hood (Arbutus) is selling right now. Although, heard today that someone in I know is looking at the $3.5 million home across the street. (With a mortgage helper! :-) ) They just sold their old-timer dump in Kits on a 33 foot lot for $1.4-ish. (Also has a mortgage helper.)

I think it would be suicide to buy esp on the high end of the market, the $3.5 million house across the street has been for sale since beginning of Sept… will try to gently tell her later today when she asks about the ‘hood. Maybe I will be able to convince this time with apparent cracks showing… but doubt I will.

#141 45north on 02.11.12 at 3:15 pm

Bill Gable: Two cars. Six mortgages, and he sorta blushed when the lunch ended. After grandly sweeping up the bill at Timmmy’s for two coffees and two muffins, his credit card was refused. I paid.

pretty funny

#142 Junius on 02.11.12 at 3:16 pm

#129 Junius imposter,

You aren’t even funny. At least show some flare if you are going to impersonate others. Loser.

#143 Timbo on 02.11.12 at 3:25 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzKPvLDDz4g

John Williams: Hyperinflation By 2014

I was forced to listen to the dark side and doom is in the air. Interesting listen but be warned, you will need a salt shaker. ;)

#144 Canadian Watchdog on 02.11.12 at 3:28 pm

Don’t take my word for it Garth, read what OTPP had to say about it here http://www.otpp.com/wps/wcm/connect/otpp_en/home/newsroom/news+releases/2011/scoc-national-securities-regulator

“Our highly fractured regulatory system is one reason why many investors do not bother with Canada.”

With no Canadian legislative framework to guarantee bond stakeholders, while stakeholders are witnessing the end result play out in Europe (70% haircuts): Do you think private/pension funds will hang around to find out what happens to their low yielding bonds? No way.

Canada has gone the Swiss route and just lost its safe haven status.

#145 BPOE on 02.11.12 at 3:33 pm

Tsur is never wrong. Getting better everyday folks
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Vancouver+housing+market+will+spared+severe+correction+Expert/6129139/story.html

#146 Kilby on 02.11.12 at 3:41 pm

Just got the mail, there is the latest edition of “MoneySense” in a plastic wrapper with an enclosure saying” NOW is the time to invest in Real Estate”

I have been getting this magazine for years and am so disappointed, The front cover says that inside are articles “Best deals in US Real Estate” and “Are the burbs really cheaper?”

Sounds like CREA has gotten to the publishers, was going to cancel last year but will not renew next time.

#147 shanks on 02.11.12 at 3:43 pm

#14 Marco from vancouver on 02.10.12 at 11:07 pm
lol this is funny to me. Someone telling others that this is Garth’s blog and therefore it should be run like this (the way the poster would like it). Maybe Garth likes those commentor’s comments? Personally, I think Garth welcomes all the doomers because he lives in a bunker that stacked to the rafters with fresh amazons, and tolerates the gold bugs because deep down he likes gold a little, and even lets the realtors on here and there because he actually does love RE.

One more thing Marco, if you ever have a situation in your life from which you derive ZERO value, the problem is not the situation, but you!

#148 These pretzels are making me thirsty on 02.11.12 at 3:51 pm

# 145 BPOE

The truth about Tsur.
Such pretentious duplicity. Wonder what some people smoke!!

http://cuer.sauder.ubc.ca/sponsers.html

http://vreaa.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/tsur-sommerville-lets-not-let-the-housing-market-be-driven-by-a-wave-of-cheap-and-easy-to-access-money/

#149 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 02.11.12 at 4:13 pm

#14 Marco from vancouver, #27 ScottyD, #35 Suede, #53 jonni, #73 P & T S, #77 carlyle, #82 Herb, #124 TurnerNation, #132 Fabrega — On behalf of all of us, thx. for the reinforcements!

As to the “. . . eponymous puke . . .” line, there is a fine vomitorium close to Garth’s nebulous bunker, which is freely available to both sexes.

#67 DonDWest — “I’m getting away, getting away, getting away with murder! – Stephen Harper” — Unfortunately, Cdns. gave him a 38% majority, so we only have ourselves to blame. It would have been better to have Marlene Dietrich and Groucho Marx at the helm.

#99 BPOE (Imposter) — I don’t believe there are 200 quadrillion people in China. However, if there is evidence supporting that claim, I withdraw my statement.

#113 Bill Gable — “. . . his credit card was refused (this is like $12.00) . . .” — Kinda sad to read about a grown man (?) with four maxed out credit cards, and no pension. Even if one is mortgage-free, they should be clearing their debts ASAP. No one knows what tomorrow brings.

#140 LS in Arbutus — Those ads are on radio stations continuously, and have been for a while now. Another way to take suckers’ money!

#150 GTA on 02.11.12 at 4:17 pm

I think it’s a confusing time, hindsight is 20/20 but selling at a high, uprooting the family and renting waiting for a low…it’s a tough decision. Many of us are contemplating it. Somehow it seems even more confusing when your house is paid for. I’m of the belief that prices will drop… But the fml blog is interesting and really puts a different perspective on things. Was listening to an agent today trying to convince his customer to lower the asking price in the gta as there have been so many showings and no offers. He was also trying to get out of doing another open house… Not worth the effort at the current askin price I guess… And we are talking about a SFH in the $500000 price range. The son wants to listen to the agent, the father doesn’t… We will see how that works out.

#151 rw on 02.11.12 at 4:28 pm

#7 Westernman:

That is not always true! In my view that was a sexist statement based on your own prejudice.

#152 Bill Gable on 02.11.12 at 4:28 pm

Then, of course, the question is – what about Student loan debts?
In the States – could it be the next financial bomb?

From Mish’s blog:

Growing numbers of Americans are finding themselves bankrupt, with their college diplomas partially to blame.

Slightly more than 80 percent of bankruptcy attorneys say the number of their potential clients with student loan debt have increased “significantly” or “somewhat” in the past three to four years, according to a survey by the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys. And there’s little hope those debtors will get out of their obligations; 95 percent of bankruptcy attorneys surveyed said that very few student loan debtors will be discharged from their loan as a result of undue hardship.

Sound familiar?

#153 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 4:46 pm

Wish to purchase a $600/sq foot condo in downtown
T-dot?

Here’s the level of workmanship. Greater fools/this will not end well.

http://poorconstruction.blogspot.com/2012/02/m5v-condos-tas-designbuild-lifetime.html

#154 BPOE on 02.11.12 at 4:49 pm

At 149 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad that’s a FACT FACT FACT!!! I met all of them and they even told me so! Well I met a couple of them here in Vancouver and they told me so.

#155 Westernman on 02.11.12 at 4:51 pm

rw@#150,
No, it was not a sexist comment based on prejudice, it was an accurate statement of truth based on vast, real-world on the ground experience reinforced by scientific principles… in layman’s language ” Field tested and Westernman approved ”
Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I stand firm that my statement is 75% to 95% accurate.
That percentage of correctness is good enough for me to stand by the assertion…

#156 The Thing in the Basement on 02.11.12 at 5:14 pm

136 Junius – I posted a list of city GDPs the other day. Interesting to see what cities Van fits in with. Seattle does look like an overachiever given its pop.

139 Wage Slave – I start untrained people at $13/hr so $27k/yr. School runs 8 mo/yr, so that’s about $18k opportunity cost each yr.

Not enuff young people going into trades/tech IMO. I
think their minds have been brainwashed to think these
jobs arent worthy.

146 – Kilby – Dont write off MS yet. There are some good quips about RE jargon at the bottom of one of the pages.

#157 Blog Dog Carney on 02.11.12 at 5:16 pm

Attn Turner Nation. I’m still here. Watching. And waiting.

With my finger on the trigger…..

#158 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 5:25 pm

139 Wage Slave:

Where can an unskilled 18 year old get a job that pays above minimum wage?

-Heavy construction

-Armed forces

-Entrepreneurship

-Possibly others if you have nepotism on your side.

I’m not saying foregoing post secondary is a good idea.

I am saying that unless your parents have lots and lots of money,it’s a damned waste of two years, four years, or more, if you’re just studying something that is going to leave you qualified for the same job at Burger King or Wal Mart.

One needs to plan their post secondary track very, very carefully, and make sure they are going to re-coup the initial investment and them some. Failure to do so can screw you worse than our favourite topic of buying a house you cannot afford.

As for my own kids, they’re too young to really get worried about. I’m doing my best to make certain that I have financial means to HELP them through their chosen program when the time comes. I’m also trying to help them make decisions that leave doors open.

#159 live within your means on 02.11.12 at 5:33 pm

#126 Kilby on 02.11.12 at 1:58 pm

Eons ago when I lived in Brussels I bought an English semi sports car. I think it was a Triumph. Then I had to get my drivers license. It was all about theory – didn’t matter whether you could actually drive. I and many others failed the written test the first time. So BF & I attended classes to learn the rules of the road & got our ‘beginner’ licenses. We could drive downtown on our own – i.e. risk our lives – but could not drive on the highways alone. I had to place a big ‘B’ in my back window. Six yrs ago hubby and I were an hour’s drive to Brussels. With the Garmin we found where I had lived – Avenue General de Longeville. The bldg. hadn’t really changed but the st. had extended. It was totally nostalgic for me.

#160 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 5:33 pm

#69 live within your means on 02.11.12 at 3:53 am #33 Bast on 02.11.12 at 12:05 am

All this talk of Miatas! Folks I have grave news for you. Recent evidence concludes that ALL Mazda products are “girls” cars (especially their Miata).

Normally I would not be caught dead in a Domestic car but for a convertible, for the greatest horsepower-to-money ratio, you want a few years old Ford Mustang GT (V8) convertible. They depreciate like heck (cheap, typical Domestic car), but go like hell.
Sometimes you have to go by the old adage “There’s no replacement for displacement”. And that time is now.

#161 Junius on 02.11.12 at 5:45 pm

#148 These pretzel,

Good post on Tsur the Re: Industry Shill. PHD is “Piled Higher and Deeper” with him.

#162 Mixed Bag on 02.11.12 at 5:45 pm

Whoever is complaining about Smoking Man’s posts – I disagree.

Batman head! I love batman head, and saw an upside-down one in a recent graph, now to remember which one. Too bad I wasn’t drinking, can’t blame it on that.

#163 AG Sage on 02.11.12 at 5:51 pm

Jake, current numbers for Calgary:
Calgary peaked in June 2007 at $439,000
(CREB median) currently at $395,000 (Jan 2012)
for a loss of 10.0% or $44,000

Now, hop on up to housepriceindex.ca and click on the Calgary pin to see where it’s going next.

Assuming 2004 was still pre-bubble, and adjusting for inflation, the median should be 290,000$ right now, but it is $395,000 as of Jan, or overvalued by $105,000. Just back in June of 2011 it was overvalued by $132,000, so being slow, you’ve already saved yourself about 20k of equity loss.

At the current rate of decline Calgary will hit the inflation adjusted median from 2004 in Sept of 2014.

#164 AG Sage on 02.11.12 at 5:56 pm

>#137 City Slicker on 02.11.12 at 2:46 pm

The innovation is in the user experience. If you don’t believe that, why isn’t RIM still roaring?

#165 Ronaldo on 02.11.12 at 5:59 pm

#14 Marco – There is an old saying that goes something like this.

“If you listen to a fool and you don’t learn anything, who then is the real fool?”

You can learn something from everyone. Keep up with the links. Vlad. I have found many of them very interesting and informative.

#166 whiteshoes on 02.11.12 at 6:01 pm

#113 Bill Gable

“Mr. Turner has it right.

Screwed. Thousands of people.

The Trillion dollar question is – how to fix this mess.”

Man, that really is the question- how about it Garth, what *is* going to be the remedy, and how will this medicine taste? I have a feeling I’ll be taking it a long time…

whiteshoes

#167 live within your means on 02.11.12 at 6:09 pm

#160 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 5:33 pm

I don’t give a shit what you drive. Each to his own.

#168 Smoking Man on 02.11.12 at 6:23 pm

135 Smoking Man on 02.11.12 at 2:38 pm
Is an Imposter.

Funny how can I be mad at him/her I am the biggest advocate of steel the customer list and set up shop across the street.

Sort of what this dude just did to me. I don’t really care his spelling is better than mine, But I have a near 100% percent accuracy rate in predicting changes in direction of the Markets, I can’t this loser make a bad pick and destroy my record. So going forward I will re post what ever I say on here my blog.

Just click on my name, if you see the same post on my blog as you see it here. It’s a Certified Smoking Man Post.

http://dyslexicsmokingman.blogspot.com/

Marco From BC Rebuttal shortly

#169 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 6:28 pm

119 sam.i.am on 02.11.12 at 1:08 pm

I think I found it online. Will post an actual picture one day.

The top bike here – 652cc single cylinder! Yeah it caught my eye.
See what I mean – thin, low seat, with high handlebars.
Does not look like a modern bike; more retro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SuzukiSavage1988.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Boulevard_S40

#170 Smoking Man on 02.11.12 at 6:36 pm

14 Marco from vancouver on 02.10.12 at 11:07 pm
I propose we ask smoking man, BPOe, devils advocate and the eponymous Le mad vlad to take a break from polluting the intellectual capital of this blog.
…………………………………………………………………..
In school I bet you were the type of kid that gave the teachers apples, Followed the rules, played the game, only to discover you are not where you thought you would be. Sucks for you, What makes this pathetic blog great, is Garth he serves up the usual meat and potatoes, every day, and the next day.
We al know Real estate is risky, be diversified Preferds are great, so on and so forth. But not every one like you is thick we get it. The contribution that me and the others make on here make this a fun place to be. Even the Great one likes me. I Think.
Never the less, You should real find away to deal with your jealousy of our creativity vs yours.

This is a Certified Post by The Real Smoking Man
http://dyslexicsmokingman.blogspot.com/

#171 Stupesing in Cabbagetown on 02.11.12 at 6:51 pm

#155 Westernman – here’s an example of boys vs. girls approach to handling money: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904 . And here’s another: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/19/neuroeconomics-women-city-financial-crash . I’m afraid you are out of touch with reality and your views are offensive.

#172 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 6:58 pm

Here is Jake’s bumper sticker:

http://cdub.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/banner.jpg

#173 jess on 02.11.12 at 7:17 pm

32 bono
what is criminal what is reckless behavior

Bear’s cancelled Everquest
Bear Stearns’ Everquest withdraws IPO-filing
NEW YORK | Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:02am EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/26/us-everquest-ipo-idUSN2624218920070626
———————————————————
February 9, 2012, 8:25 pm Hedge Funds | Legal/Regulatory
S.E.C. Reaches Settlement in Bear Stearns Fraud Case
==========
Although, ..”Bobby Hayes, a Nevada retiree and wealthy investor, has been awarded $1.4 million in damages in securities arbitration against Merrill Lynch. According to Hayes’ allegations, Bank of America Corp.’s Merrill Lynch sold him collateralized debt obligations which were worthless at the time he purchased them.”

Government and Borrowers Preserve Other Claims

•The release does not grant any immunity from criminal offenses or affect criminal prosecutions.
•The release does not include claims relating to securitizations of mortgage loans.
•The release does not include the Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems (MERSCORP, Inc.), a privately held company that operates an electronic registry designed to track ownership of mortgage loans and servicing rights.
•State attorneys general and the federal agencies signing onto this agreement agree to release the servicers only from servicing, foreclosure and origination liability claims (note that many origination claims are now time barred by statutes of limitation).
•This agreement does not prevent homeowners or investors from pursuing individual, institutional or class action civil cases against the servicers.

….

The settlement mostly impacts the Held for Investment (HFI) market, which encompasses loans held by the banks that service the loans. The mortgages, penalties and financial commitments associated with this settlement are funded primarily by the banks, not third-party investors. HUD estimates that HFI mortgages comprise 20 percent of the U.S. mortgage market.

http://www.nationalmortgagesettlement.com/news

===================
regarding that on the go thingy

Citibank’s iPad app double-charged users
Android malware issue
RuFraud scam.
===========
Flash lynching mob

Attempted kidnapping led 600 locals armed with bars, clubs and bottles surrounded the three suspects and dragged them to the town’s main square. beat the men and forced them into a car, and set it on fire…

#174 AlexanderTheGreat on 02.11.12 at 7:53 pm

Garth,

I was enjoying the article until you bad mouthed the prius. There’s four things you JUST DON’T DO:

1) You don’t tug on superman’s cape
2) You don’t spit into the wind
3) You don’t pull the mask off the old lone ranger
4) You don’t bad mouth a car that gets like 60mpg and looks sexy (Dolly Parton sexy………. like 1990’s dolly parton sexy, not 1980’s…. it’s no ferrari)

Geez, my post is supposed to come off as funny but seems handicapped in some way. Do you ever wonder if the majority of the readers of this blog are unstable middle aged angry men? Time for some demographics of this “pathetic blog”.

#175 sam.i.am on 02.11.12 at 8:15 pm

@169 TurnerNation, could be a custom maybe?

http://www.rycamotors.com

The toy head is off, hg appears to be intact, gonna get it checked out by a local shop.

#176 OneMoreThing on 02.11.12 at 8:17 pm

Do my eyes deceive me! No DA posts! My morning coffee just tasted a little better!

#177 Dragonslayer on 02.11.12 at 8:34 pm

Re: #158 Mike Rotch (nice moniker by the way)

The question I have is what the heck was the 18 year doing for all this time to have NO skills. They had no hobbies, played no sports, that they could parlay into a job of some kind? Did they play hockey? The rec centres are always looking for eager young people to man the skate shops or teach skating lessons. Did they work on cars? Bet you that an auto shop or lube shop would take them on. Low wages to start? You bet, but if they are keen and work hard, not for long.
If what you are saying is that an unskilled person is going to have a rough ride in this world you are right. So whose responsibilty is it to get some skills?
And in all my years I cannot name one single person who has regretted getting either an undergrad degree or advanced degree. Not one. Even if they later realized they would have preferred to take a different area of study, just having the degree opens so many doors. That’s why you see things like medical doctors who have an undergrad degree in Engineering. This stuff is so apparent I don’t think I need to go on. Just look at the charts comparing income levels for high school grads to university grads. And that is only income they are measuring. What about job satisfaction?
And these comments apply equally to a quality technical education.
No, if you leave your education at high school level these days, you are screwed, screwed, screwed.

#178 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 02.11.12 at 8:42 pm

-
#147 shanks and #165 Ronaldo — Noted and thanks!

#154 BPOE — In that case, I accept you are right and I erred!
*
EZone taking a dump; Obrother Taxes up. Same here; 6:21 clip Journalist discovers what food stamps are like to live on; Charts of income inequality gap from 1913; 7:12 clip No need to hurt big companies, just share the wealth a little more, but 3:09 clip How big is too big? Fraud and Technicals Stock market pull-back time? Downturn This out of control spending is something I, nor any thinking people I know, ever signed on to.” wrh.com; Who Controls The World? A better question is “Who Controls The Money”, as whoever does controls the world; Wikileaks Soros is a good bet.
*
ACTA Protests Getting bigger and more vociferous. Probably from TPTB’s collection of FF’s / distractions; ‘Net blackout on March 8. Check security and back-ups; Libya Thanks, NATO – US – UN and TPTB. Things are swell here; Syria, Iran and Bulgaria “I don’t know about you, but I am hearing the very nasty sound of a US/Israeli noose tying itself around geostrategic bases from which to wage a military assault against Iran.” wrh.com; War What comes after, esp. if there’s not much left? Turkey “The US and Israel, undoubtedly and unfortunately, will skewer the possibility of such a deal moving forward ASAP.” wrh.com; Jeb Bush America can’t afford another Bush; CC on hold until further notice; Ogunner Outlawing guns if given a second term; GE Drugs No testing at all for new no name drugs.

#179 Daisy Mae on 02.11.12 at 8:58 pm

#114 GREGOR SAMSA: “Over the past 7 years that I have lived in Calgary, I have seen the economic diversity only go DOWN as other sectors (high tech, manufacturing) have closed up and moved on. The government is oblivious as their tiny cut of oil revenues is the only thing that keeps them going…”

**************************

And that’s not all. While the rest of the world is contemplating austerity measures, the premier of the province has massive spending planned for the province — two months before the election, she’s spending billions on education, health, blah, blah — everything the voters want.

#180 Raj on 02.11.12 at 9:00 pm

Obviousness is always the enemy to correctness.

–Bertrand Russell [MATHEMATICS AND METAPHYSICIANS]

#181 P & T S on 02.11.12 at 9:05 pm

We’re not saying this Blog is addictive, but we now have greaterfool.ca as our home page . . . .

First stop – Garth’s musings,

Second stop – Nostradamus (for hours – links and links therefrom!)

Third stop – Smoking Man – check out his blog – there’s some GOOD STUFF there!

If it all gets any more engrossing maybe I’ll replace the chair with a Porta Potti (saves reading time spent on “other activities”).

OK Information excess there – apologies to the delicate!

#182 sam.i.am on 02.11.12 at 9:09 pm

@turnernation, do you remember the water buffaloes?

then there were the kawi two stroke triples – widowmakers.

the modern equivalent balackbird

i want those bikes for the names alone.

No longer have the stones to ride. Too many texters.

Will make an exception, if the portland to yarmouth ferry comes back.

#183 Daisy Mae on 02.11.12 at 9:12 pm

#67 DonDWest — “I’m getting away, getting away, getting away with murder! – Stephen Harper”

********************

Where did this originate?

#184 Daisy Mae on 02.11.12 at 9:19 pm

#149 NOSTY: “Unfortunately, Cdns. gave him a 38% majority, so we only have ourselves to blame….”

*********************

Something terribly wrong with our voting system, wouldn’t you think? After all, 62% did NOT vote for Harper.

#185 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 9:23 pm

Soo, both bonds and equities are rising. Don’t like it? There’s an ETF for that:

(Looks illquid, and who knows how it’s marked to market – daily or rolling performance).

•FactorShares 2X: S&P500 Bull/TBond Bear (NYSEArca: FSE)
•FactorShares 2X: TBond Bull/S&P500 Bear (NYSEArca: FSA

http://www.indexuniverse.com/sections/news/8869-factorshares-launches-5-spread-etfs.html

#186 Devore on 02.11.12 at 9:25 pm

#38 nonplused

Even at 2% inflation prices will double over that time. Since conservative portfolios don’t even cover that anymore, retirees have to stay “out on the risk curve”.

The low returns environment IS pushing people way out on the risk curve. I would argue, this is as it should be. I would argue, the fiat system has mispriced risk for the last 40 years, obviously more so in the last 10. “Risk free” should mean inflation. No more, no less. It allows your savings to retain purchasing power through inflation.

If you want more, as you say, you’re gonna have to roll up your sleeves, and either do something productive that someone finds valuable and is willing to pay for, or gamble with risk and speculate.

#187 Devore on 02.11.12 at 9:35 pm

#38 nonplused

But we are loosing “market share” because nobody want to learn, and nobody want to work, save the fine folks at Apple and a few others. This is the sad underside to collective socialism. The safety net encourages underperformance.

This is a good point, that I wanted to put in a separate post ;)

If you look at the successful people we have produced, they’re always mavericks, cowboys, non-conformists, rebels, bucking the trend. And what is the trend? The trend is underperformance and mediocrity. Hey, shouldn’t these people be inspiring rolemodels, something we aspire to, look up to, want to emulate and even better? Instead of eyeing them suspiciously, being jealous and envious, even wanting to take them down a notch?

It is a sad state of affairs, that is the result of decades and decades of decisions and policies.

#188 Bast on 02.11.12 at 9:40 pm

Phew! Thank goodness I am female! I have not committed the grave sin of cross-car buying! I think women do buy Miatas because they look cool, can move, and hold their value. Zoom-zoom, all!

#189 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 9:43 pm

Our forum leader, on Internet radio again! Where does he find the time.

http://talkdigitalnetwork.com/2012/02/this-week-in-money-18/?

This Week in Money

Saturday, February 11th, 2012 | Filed under This Week in Money

Podcast: Download (Duration: 47:49 — 32.8MB)
■Garth Turner – Real Estate.
■Marin Katusa – Nuclear alternative.
■John Williams – Inflation, employment numbers.

#190 Preciouss on 02.11.12 at 10:01 pm

Re: #158 Mike Rotch (nice moniker by the way)

The question I have is what the heck was the 18 year doing for all this time to have NO skills. They had no hobbies, played no sports, that they could parlay into a job of some kind? Did they play hockey? The rec centres are always looking for eager young people to man the skate shops or teach skating lessons. Did they work on cars? Bet you that an auto shop or lube shop would take them on. Low wages to start? You bet, but if they are keen and work hard, not for long.
If what you are saying is that an unskilled person is going to have a rough ride in this world you are right. So whose responsibilty is it to get some skills?
And in all my years I cannot name one single person who has regretted getting either an undergrad degree or advanced degree. Not one. Even if they later realized they would have preferred to take a different area of study, just having the degree opens so many doors. That’s why you see things like medical doctors who have an undergrad degree in Engineering. This stuff is so apparent I don’t think I need to go on. Just look at the charts comparing income levels for high school grads to university grads. And that is only income they are measuring. What about job satisfaction?
And these comments apply equally to a quality technical education.
No, if you leave your education at high school level these days, you are screwed, screwed, screwed.

Go to Fort McMurray. People with grade 4 equivalent making $120k+ per year. The wise ones are liquid multi-millionaires with no debt.

Lots of the edumacated ones is broke and debt-ridden dere. Many, many wasted years and degrees.

#191 Kilby on 02.11.12 at 10:04 pm

#140 LS In Arbutus.

I got that call this morning too…I did listen to the message..pretty funny.

#192 WhatThe on 02.11.12 at 10:07 pm

Jefferson Fores

1 Freehold townhouse:
2032 sft $549,990
2057 sft $554,990
2192 sft $575,990

2. 32” lot:

2246 sft $659,990
2477 sft $675,990
3078 sft $729,990

3. 35” lot

2683sft $729,990
3159 sft $780,990

4. Corner series:
2131 sft $679,990
2711 sft $759,990

5. 40″ lot

3009 sft $870,990 (extra deep and ravine lot, premium included)

6. 44″ lot

3007 sft $825,990
3206 sft $839,990
3817 sft $880,990

7. cul-de-sac series

3644 sft $935,990
3787 sft $955,990

#193 Patiently Waiting on 02.11.12 at 10:15 pm

#43The Thing in the Basement on 02.11.12 at 12:45 am
Garth – how do you get payments doubling? $416k @3.99
over 30 is just under $2K/mo, $376k (after 5 yr) @6.99
over 25 is just over $2600 – just about exact 1/3 increase.
—————————————————————–

At 6.99% the monthly payments would be $2,937 a 48% increase! Not only that, but if they can only make the same $1,983 per month payment, the maximum loan they would qualify for is $280,000. Quite a problem if their original loan was at $416,000 and little principal has been paid back – which is highly likely given that the first 12 – 15 years of a mortgage has little principal reduction built into the payment schedule . . . got to love those banks . . .

#194 panhead on 02.11.12 at 10:19 pm

The following user names are still available. Choose yours today!

Smoking Girl
Beach Man
Shelly Cooter
FEMA Camper
Raging Cager
Ben Burn-a-yankee (Fed Chairman)

Reserved: Blog Dog Carney

How abiut changing that to Smelly Cooter?

#195 not 1st on 02.11.12 at 10:48 pm

Garth, why do you appear on a show where one guest is talking hyperinflation and crash of the U.S. dollar and where the commercial breaks are pumping gold and precious metals?

To make me look good. — Garth

#196 Mark on 02.11.12 at 10:53 pm

#190, I know engineers who have spent much of the past decade unemployed because they are deemed to be ‘overqualified’, and the jobs that they’re qualified for, simply don’t exist because Nortel (and similar employers) shut their doors.

In many cases, these guys would have been better off with just high school. Canadian employers are notoriously inflexible when it comes to hiring the talent that is out there, that’s for sure. And then we wonder why we suffer sub-par growth.

#197 Mark on 02.11.12 at 10:58 pm

#114, “Over the past 7 years that I have lived in Calgary, I have seen the economic diversity only go DOWN as other sectors (high tech, manufacturing) have closed up and moved on. The government is oblivious as their tiny cut of oil revenues is the only thing that keeps them going.”

Yup. The tech employers have left Calgary in droves. No more GE Harris design/manufacturing. No more Nortel. The Nortel factory in Calgary once generated nearly $2B worth of exports for Canada — today, it is a police station! Engineers in Calgary in the technology sector have found themselves dramatically less employable, and the government basically has turned a blind eye to this.

#198 Devore on 02.11.12 at 11:14 pm

#32 bono

Garth this just was published. CIBC to reportedly sell Firstline Mortgages

After CMHC refused to insure FirstLine’s low ratio (20%+ down) mortgages, they’ve capped how much additional risk they’re willing to take on (mortgage cap, no mortgages for stated income), and now they’re also looking to unload this risky portfolio. What do they know they’re not telling us?

#199 TurnerNation on 02.11.12 at 11:57 pm

#167live within your means on 02.11.12 at 6:09 pm

I do not own a car or truck, currently.

#200 TurnerNation on 02.12.12 at 12:04 am

#182sam.i.am on 02.11.12 at 9:09 pm

I’ve never dirven a motorbike. Rebuilt one, 4 cyl air cooled Yamaha FZ that’s it. I just like engines.

#201 The Thing in the Basement on 02.12.12 at 12:08 am

193 Waiting – Please check your numbers. $2947 is maybe on the $416k? But at 3.99%, you pay off 40 large
over that five years and renew for $376k for 25 years.

These very low rates give a much more linear effect on the balance. Think of it this way – if the interest was 0%, the balance would decrease by the same amount each payment – ie a straight line over time. As the rate
increases, the line bows from the underside. Those of us who had double digit mortgage rates assume that the old
rule still holds.

For the payment to double, the interest rate would have to double, and the amortization period be infinite (ie interest-only loan)

Now here’s the kicker – I accel’d my payments on a 4.29% mortgage. Why? Becuase I feared that rate would be 8% when I renewed! Woulda done way better dropping it in the market in 08.

#202 Ex-Cowtown on 02.12.12 at 12:11 am

#100 Wage Slave on 02.11.12 at 11:53 am 29 Ex-Cowtown on 02.11.12 at 12:00 am:

Did you even bother to read the f-cking article you posted? The guy feels “duped” because of climate change activists’ nearly exclusive focus on CO2 emissions, rather than explaining to the public that there’s a constellation of factors that contribute to climate change.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, actually I did read the “F-cking” article.

The guy got duped by lies and misinformation spread by eco-terrorists.

Did you bother reading the article? I’ll explain it in little words (no F-Words though, so you might not get it)

ECO-NUTS LIE. MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE.

Got it now??

Did you read the part about his concern about Monty Pythonesque ECO-NUT Truth Committee’s?

I guess not. Like it or not Harper has the right idea opposing these Foreign ECO-TOTALITARIANS.

#203 45north on 02.12.12 at 12:13 am

Mark: I know engineers who have spent much of the past decade unemployed because they are deemed to be ‘overqualified’, and the jobs that they’re qualified for, simply don’t exist because Nortel (and similar employers) shut their doors.

I cannot say whether Nortel management was simply inept or that it deliberately looted the company. Whatever, the end result is a devastating loss.

#204 Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad on 02.12.12 at 12:22 am

-
#181 P & T S — You might be interested in the first few links of the non-finance stuff, below the asterisk. US Marines training for WW3, Paraguay and other stuff. Seems things are slowly coming together for a cycle change.

#184 Daisy Mae — It would be a little better if voting were mandatory (such as Oz), and a Proportional Representation System were allowed (think that’s the right term).

Not sure if it is a better system, but change is necessary.
*
8:38 clip John Williams of ShadowStats; Two short clips Africa – China, and China is leading the pack; IMF, ECB and EU – Trying to push Greece out. If Greece goes, they can revert back to the Drachma and forget about paying the bills and Portugal Rallying against austerity; Big Spenders If one invests well, spending it is easy during retirement, not before; How much do MPs here bill the public for? Flash Trading could nuke the markets; Zero Value Buffett on gold, so buy silver instead; Reality Check America’s financial rescue not quite as expected.

German Jackboot; John Mauldin is right — it doesn’t matter who gets in at the WH, we’re toast; Corporate Earnings A big anomaly; RIM Running the business into the ground; US and Cdn. Homeowners The difference; Barrons The Dow is going beyond 15K.
*
US Marines Training for WW3 with Iran, China and Russia; The Fourth Reich — Link in “The Pampas of Argentina or the backwaters of Paraguay were the preferred location for those who openly professed their reprehensible loyalty to the Führer principle.” The Bush clan has a hideaway in Paraguay; Story and links aren’t necessary, but the little quote at the end shows which way we’re heading (war); Minus 18C That’s moderate to cool here, not in the UK and Deep Freeze in EU threatens grid; A politico running a program to help unemployed youth? At least he is trying; 11 Weapons only the US has.

#205 DUI on Money Road on 02.12.12 at 12:57 am

200th!!!!!!!

#206 DonDWest on 02.12.12 at 1:12 am

People here are a little confused. When an employer says he/she is lacking skilled workers; that’s code language for he/she is lacking conformists. This is why employers have made the Bachelor’s degree the new High School. Usually a person who has a Bachelor’s degree has a fair amount of experience navigating a bureaucracy and being a conformist. High School doesn’t weed out the rebels like it used to anymore.

With Canadian labour participation being at an all-time high (may soon change); employers now have little choice but to hire on people who their personalities may not always match the “corporate fit.” Employers don’t like this at all, so they usually express this rage by lamenting over the lack of skills in the general populace.

The truth of the matter is most jobs require nothing more than an eighth grade education and it’s often only a question of a few months training.

“Lack of skills” is often synonymous with “we just don’t like these people; and therefore don’t want to hire them.” I should know this all too well. In every job I’ve ever worked I’ve always been the top producer for my given department, yet never get considered for management positions because my weakness is “not following protocols.” More accurately my weakness is “being unable to memorize the million and one protocols.” That’s another area college does well, teaching people to memorize tons of irrelevant factoids, much like a corporation where success depends on memorizing and navigating a million silly rules that only serve to hamper productivity.

Never confuse skills/education with “job placement/fit.” People often can’t tell the difference, but the difference is there. There are plenty of skilled people out there willing to work; provided employers are willing to tolerate what they may consider some eccentricities in personality.

#207 disciple on 02.12.12 at 1:20 am

Mr. Marco, you didn’t think the financial advice came free, did you? Not quite, but the only fee is getting a total all around education in the process. If you only want to know how to balance your portfolio there are hundreds of other boring blogs for that purpose, most of which would fit your personality, I presume. If you value it so highly, then why not take your own advice? Thank you.

#208 disciple on 02.12.12 at 1:29 am

Nostra! What are you doing up? You must be closer to Greenwich time…Yeah, I knew about the Bush hideout in Paraguay, pretty odd place unless it was some sort of escape plan… speaking of war… here is the info on the torpedo-ing of the Lusitania which was carrying weapons and ammunition… I wonder what it will be with the precursor to Iran attack… our real rulers are very creative when it comes to these things…

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/eyewitness/html.php?section=18

#209 Harlee on 02.12.12 at 1:56 am

Oh dear,not the return of “Vancouver as a World Class City”….There’s only one WCC in North America and that is New York City. I’ve never been but I don’t have to visit it to know that it has the history,culture,financial clout and just general “guts” to rate it against any European WCC.It’s also a coastal city. Maybe if you took Toronto,Montreal and St. John’s Nfld. and combined them into one metropolis you’d have a Canadian WCC. But not individually !

#210 GregW, Oakville on 02.12.12 at 2:35 am

Hi #14 Marco, You seemed to have missed mentioning the first’s

It takes all kinds to make the world go round. Just skip over what you’re not interested in. ;)

I personably like ‘some’ of Nastra’s links. But maybe that’s just me.

And not to forget Garth always has something worth reading too. Not that everyone seems to agrees. But that’s ok too.

Better that than net censorship. O wait some are
working on that, if you’ve been paying attention!

#211 GregW, Oakville on 02.12.12 at 2:40 am

Hi #14 Marco, Sorry about that. Just reread your post after posting and you did mention the 1st, but I missed it the fist go round.

#212 Van guy on 02.12.12 at 2:43 am

Garth,

Great audio from the web! I’d wish you’d talk the way you write. That would be comedy. I love your writing as it makes me chuckle. Do you think you’ll ever get o to msm so you can get more people on this blog?

#213 Mr Buyer on 02.12.12 at 3:12 am

#93 house horny housewife…I like your suggestion of getting into income property. It took my wife like a year to come around to that as a possible option.
#94 Canuck Abroad….I can not believe it but I might agree with you provided the guy is right up front with his wife and explains the hopeless nature of her quest. If it is really that dire in that he will almost certainly end up divorced then 45k is a small price to pay to really BE with ones kids and prepare them for life. The greatest benefit to the kids by far is simply being in the same house with them.It imparts a much needed deep seated sense of security at a crucial time in life which will leave them less vulnerable to being hypnotized by pipe dreams in their future. The longer they exist as a family unit the better for the kids. A real force multiplier would be to take a real active role in the education of the kids during what time he has left in the house and give them a huge leg up on the competition. By the way, my wife is still way hooked on MLS and has grown weary of my asking her to wait. Little does she know we will be living in a house not much larger than the one we live in here in Japan. Japanese houses of the past were known as rabbit hutches (the newer ones are quite a bit bigger and more earthquake resistant but still not Canadian BIG). After over a decade living in what could pass as the lodgings found in a submarine I can tell you that I have grown to prefer it. Even so, I have to add that I pay more for utilities than relatives do in Canada living in houses possible 8 times the size of ours. I am the only person in the entire neighborhood with a lawn which is the about the size of two kitchen tables (alright maybe 3). We have winters that rarely see negative temperatures and as a result we heat only the room we are in at the moment (watching TV then turn on the heater in the living room, eating then turn on the heat in the kitchen and off everywhere else). This brings to mind something I noticed over my years here. When I first arrived in Japan I lived in a place that had a heated toilet seat. Well it struck my as the height of extravagance and quite a contradiction but upon the arrival of winter my house was way colder than any house I lived in anywhere in Canada and the really cold bathroom was made quite bearable with what I have come to think of as an almost necessity.

#214 Sexy and I Know It on 02.12.12 at 5:00 am

Rest in Peace, Whitney. Rest in peace. We all will miss you terribly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS4v431Mlak&feature=fvst

American bands are still, in my opinion, the very best. They’re always keeping it fresh and hip and they really just don’t give a damn. Would we EVER show anything like this on our stations? Never. They allow it on their’s because the censorship restrictions are less stringent, contrary to popular belief. LMFAO IS TOTALLY AWESOME ON A COMPLETELY ELEVATED LEVEL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dlmfao%26oq%3Dlmfao%26aq%3Df%26aqi%3Dg10%26aql%3D%26gs_sm%3D3%26gs_upl%3D2347l3211l0l3443l5l5l0l2l2l0l162l422l0.3l3l0&ytsession=gr6sTPqfE34w2xkkJXnLZ-VpKJ2xJW0nzVNriNhHOltxQ-69koJ9K5fFtrH9WcJbe-6pDePXzsqpTKmVWWPWO_8zf-P-K5WkMSDOQ6tyrg2Z5iuQLmr6Ug-X-XABVEw9dFXLasp7f4KgeKgzjTTL4gS5AaRePCe5gNKdAsU6RkzX3eiLJF91K163-UIEqyc1awVwLORWzgTmnWljmzZZIeTvLFw4yEP1aUA0fiJ7rPu9229Gaua7zwlLXH1L0JO0rTmfcPxVKB3IOaFwqvmRjzCfWbJQAJp7SjBG0qFfD5E&has_verified=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWF86D_UNxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IVI1tJLhPI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvjbLYXnQmE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLDhjxlw1J0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZe-q3M1imU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zam0xpuWUVY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5ATkQCDe2s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDaw0M2qCZs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsYFfN2ISUE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxS47Eo43sE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ju1bkO25Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc_dD_zhPE4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvDKNJlOvJM&feature=related

#215 eagle eyes on 02.12.12 at 5:44 am

Does anyone work in the restaurant industry? I am curious as to how well local restaurants are doing? Sales up or down? This is the best indicator of our economy: how much money people are spending. Two coffees and muffins fof $12.00 at Timmy’s would cost $3.00 at home. If credit cards are maxed out, then first thing to be sacrificed would be eating out.

#216 maxx on 02.12.12 at 8:33 am

Garth-
You’re a saint on a Harley.

#217 eaglebay - Parksville on 02.12.12 at 9:36 am

#184 Daisy Mae on 02.11.12 at 9:19 pm

You mean 40% didn’t vote?

#218 eaglebay - Parksville on 02.12.12 at 9:45 am

#197 Mark on 02.11.12 at 10:58 pm
“and the government basically has turned a blind eye to this.”
———-
What does the government have to do with your assumption?

#219 Smoking Man on 02.12.12 at 10:00 am

#158 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 5:25 pm

Forget a Job, Jobs are crumbs of someone’s Buy and Sell.
Difficult for most as they speny most of their lives being taught to be tax farm slaves via the school system.

All you need is a good idea, know where to tap finance, and spend your time finding good slaves to direct to make you money.

It’s a very simple basic concept, but un natural the longer you spend in school

Certified Post http://dyslexicsmokingman.blogspot.com/

#220 GTA Girl on 02.12.12 at 10:33 am

My next door neighbor is putting her house up for sale next month. They are building a 8,000 sqft home just directly north of us (next subdivision) on golf course. Yes, it’s 8,000 sqft, with bells whistles…even copper eaves troughs . But a future white elephant.

The home she is in now is a 5,000 sqft custom faux French chateau inspired. Very grandiose. But not showroom quality nor very inspired landscaping.

We are in a hamlet of Vaughan Ontario. 4 homes in our subdivision are for sale. 3 were built by GreenPark in 2003. Lot sizes are all 65×350… 1 is custom bungalow and has a lot size of 60 x 200. Asking price amongst these homes are roughly $1.3 mill

My neighbor feel that because her home was custom…though it was built by a builder who wanted to live in it himself..but didn’t because his wife left him…my neighbor feels she should ask $2mill+.

The house on the other side of her sold almost 2years ago for $1.4.

A million dollar spread between homes on same street, same lot size does not make sense.

I wouldn’t even buy my house for $1.3million.

People are delusional. I will keep you posted .

#221 GregW, Oakville on 02.12.12 at 10:41 am

Hi Nastra, You and others might be interested in this interveiw/article, you can read along if you wish.
The audio is ~16min. (13 sec. start add for the audio)

Bruce Schneier is concerned that without trust, society itself may be impossible
http://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/telecom/internet/guarding-without-guardians

#222 GTA Girl on 02.12.12 at 10:44 am

Also…of the 4 homes for sale in my subdivision, one has sat for 6mos. With price coming down from original $1.8 asking. One is a private sale, on for 2mos…no movement (place is builder special, no improvements, zero landscaping). Other 2 are being sold by our areas most aggressive Realtor. She is known for her pushy sales tactics,but usually sells fast, priced aggressive. No movement so far.

One home on my street was pulled off market. Was unsold, and on market for 5mos. Asking was $1.7. Owners refused to budge on price. In all fairness, the home is done to the nines. Has a pool with cabana/steam shower, wet bar, kitchen…basement media room, wine cellar, 5 bedrooms, 7 bathrooms. Downsview kitchen, heated driveway.

Meanwhile a builder just opened a development in King City. Lots are smaller, tighter..but asking $1.5 to start.

Shows you that upgrading your home doesnt payback on asking price…..Insane.

#223 Mike Rotch on 02.12.12 at 10:52 am

Re: #158 Mike Rotch (nice moniker by the way)

The question I have is what the heck was the 18 year doing for all this time to have NO skills. They had no hobbies, played no sports, that they could parlay into a job of some kind………

This reminded me of a missing item from my list of possibilities for a “better than minimum wage” job with nothing but HS or less.

I used to make great “tax free*” pocket money officiating minor sports.

*i.e. No T4, so it MUST have been just an honorarium for expenses and for being such a nice guy, right!? Ha!

Anyway, many moons ago when minimum wage was about $6.85, I could make $20 for a 36 minute houseleague game. Rep paid better, and there was mileage if you had to go more than like 40km

If you got yourself 3 games a night (and let me tell you, if you’re any good, the work was there….huge shortage of qualified and willing staff!), you were already better off than a waged working stiff and you spent less than half the time at it.

Anyway, even if you don’t make a career of this, it’s a great supplement. I’d still be doing it except my own kids need some of my time in the evenings.

#224 Sexy and I Know It on 02.12.12 at 11:15 am

Eagle Eyes, I work in the restaurant biz in Vancouver. Actually, I work two jobs in the industry. One at the actual restaurant and one in catering. Business is MUCH slower the last several months. More telling though is the tips are sucking big time. People are holding on to their cash for some reason and we all know why. Aussies are the worst about tipping but that’s how it has always been, no offense. Americans are tipping anywhere from 20-25% of the meal total and they are the best tippers – we fight to get their tables. Canadians USED to tip about 15% but I’ve seen it drop to 10% and that is when they remember to do it. I know they aren’t forgetting to tip but I need to believe they are forgetting. As for the catering biz I have seen a decline in need for engagements and the owner has negotiated down his price many times in the last year which is not normal for his business.

#225 Mike Rotch on 02.12.12 at 11:37 am

Smoking Man 219, you are perfectly correct.

“Entrepreneurship” was one of my options for a better than min-wage existence.

I know a few self-made men that prove that this is possible.

#226 Daisy Mae on 02.12.12 at 11:37 am

#204 NOSTY: “#184 Daisy Mae — It would be a little better if voting were mandatory (such as Oz), and a Proportional Representation System were allowed (think that’s the right term).”

***********************************

A large percentage didn’t vote, a couple voted for the Liberals, and votes for the NDP were votes against the Cons. So, yes…we got what we deserved.

#227 Junius on 02.12.12 at 11:41 am

#202 EX-Cowtown,

You said, “ECO-NUTS LIE. MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE.”

Sigh. Capitalization does not make you more right.

97% of all scientists who study the issue say it is true. The ones who don’t are either waiting for more information or are shills to the oil industry. You are reading too much propaganda.

You are a stooge for the Oil industry and others who are working hard to obfuscate these issues. You have no idea of what you write. Get informed.

#228 Kilby on 02.12.12 at 11:54 am

#215 Eagle Eyes.

One of my daughters works in the restaurant industry in Vancouver, she has two jobs, both at trendy places, a new one on Hastings (that is featured on a TV series) and a “Bourbon and Burger” one on Granville. She says that this is the WORST spring in the 4 years she has been in Vancouver, lousy tips and a LOT of shifts cut. She is good at her job and usually does pretty well. The only good thing about it is now she is ready to go back to school which hasn’t been inviting because of the good money up until this January…..

#229 The Thing in the Basement on 02.12.12 at 12:11 pm

209 Harlee – a link for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Interesting list of Alpha/Beta/Gamma rankings for you based on several different criteria. I also recently posted a link for the top 100 cities GDP – the economic influence being one of the criteria in the overall ranking.

NYC and London are the top two. Interesting that Seattle (with more than double the gdp) ranks below Van, which
is in there with many Euro capitals. One category Van ranks very high in is immigration (Toronto too).

#230 Jamaican_Gal on 02.12.12 at 12:17 pm

Goodnight, Whitney. You will live on through your music. RIP.

#231 Kilby on 02.12.12 at 12:18 pm

Oliver, BC is all abuzz about the new prison they are getting (no other towns in the Okanagan wanted it) Should be interesting what this does to real estate prices.

In the last 7 days there have been 2 sales, one for $239,000 (18 dom) and one for $274,000 (190 dom) and 235 active listings……..

Qualicum Beach, 464 Timberlane Place. 1400 sq. ft. 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom on .20 acre with new roof, bathrooms, paint etc..Just sold for $290,000. This house isn’t big but looks good and is in a great neighbourhood.

Just watching CBC news and the government deliberations in Athens with Molotov cocktails and tear gas flying…This can’t help anything. Will be interesting to watch the market openings tomorrow morning.

#232 Harlee on 02.12.12 at 12:25 pm

#215 Eagle Eyes
I work in a hotel kitchen here in Saskatoon. Business goes through cycles. Sometimes very busy ,sometimes slow.In a hotel ,of course,it depends on how full the hotel itself is. Competition is fierce among restaurants in this city so it’s up to the chefs or head cooks to always keep the menu unique. Lately the popular thing is cooking with local ingredients. Every week we have a half-priced pizza special which is popular with the university crowd. One of the pizzas uses bison meat;another one used Saskatoon berry sauce. It got some good reviews. I’ve worked for restaurants in Saskatoon for some years now and it’s always an uphill struggle for business.

#233 zman on 02.12.12 at 12:32 pm

hi GTA girl

i see the same thing happening in markharm. some sellers are asking more than the builder price….this is crazy….i dont remember ever seeing this…..but i am sure some sucker will end up buying a resale for more than the builder price…also i see hugh price variations in the same area….the difference in price could be 70k in the same area for the very similiar houses….i blame the media and realtors for all of this juiced up prices…

#234 bigrider on 02.12.12 at 12:58 pm

GTA Girl #222-

Keep us posted on Klienburg ur Hamlet in Vaughan.

I know the area well and as for Greenpark, well , lets just say we were almost neighbors.

#235 guy from toronto on 02.12.12 at 1:06 pm

question for #222 GTA Girl on 02.12.12 at 10:44 am re your neighbours’ houses and listing prices.

what did the houses around you sell for when they were built in 2003? That might shed some light on your neighbours’ motivations and attitudes towards pricing.

It’s hard to believe that they’re not making a ton of money even if they “slash” the price to $1.4M or $1.5M. I guess if they leveraged it via a HELOC to buy a cottage or toys or do the upgrades they might not have as much profit in there….but surely these houses have almost doubled since 2003.

#236 bigrider on 02.12.12 at 1:07 pm

GTA Girl.

Treelawn ,Weaver and Rainbows end

#237 Rigged on 02.12.12 at 1:16 pm

South Surrey in BC has got to be one of the most delusional places on the planet and not coincidentally also probably the fastest growing HAM population.

$2,888,888 Homes being listed for $1million more than they were overpaid for a year ago and even more than that over assessment (this information is available on the bc assessment site). Just about every listing is a re-listing that expired and set at the same price – in fact, there have been 2 re-listings in the last few weeks that got re-listed at OVER the previously expired price. Why is this happening? Because a few HAMS overpaid for a few homes last fall… It’s a joke.

Nothing is selling but the realtors are all somehow colluding to keep the listing prices high. I am looking forward to the pop.

#238 Junius on 02.12.12 at 1:19 pm

#228 Kilby,

I have some friends in the restaurant business in Vancouver. One owns a new restaurant on the West side and the other a chain with a few franchises. They both say that business is terrible and has been for months.

This is the impact of the wealth effect in reverse. So much of the local consumer’s money is tied up making payments for Real Estate and other costs of living that they have no money to consume. As credit contracts this creates a vicious cycle as more money gets sucked up making debt payments and less is available for consumption. We are just at the beginning of this cycle in Vancouver.

#239 Wage Slave on 02.12.12 at 1:27 pm

202 Ex-Cowtown on 02.12.12 at 12:11 am:

You didn’t even bother to read the quoted bits in my post, either. Your ignorance is showing, troll.

#240 Wage Slave on 02.12.12 at 1:33 pm

158 Mike Rotch on 02.11.12 at 5:25 pm:

Thanks for the reasonable response. You have a good head on your shoulders. I hope your plans work out the way you hope they will; all I’m saying is, with kids, be prepared for them to not want to do things your way.

#241 Herb on 02.12.12 at 1:36 pm

#202 Ex-Cowtown,

don’t just fling labels about, ask yourself the cui bono question: who profits, on which side of this issue is the most money riding? Is more money to be made by chugging along as before, or by changing emissions, footprints or whatever? I somehow don’t think that a clutch of scientists and eco-terrorists have that much financial skin in the game. Now take the oil industry on the other hand …

That should give you a good idea of what the “debate” really is about and who finances its continuation. Besides, if someone mentions “science” and “settled” in the same breath, he exposes himself as either a shill or a dupe propagating denial. No scientist would ever claim that any science is “settled”. It is always open to new developments and change. Propaganda, on the other hand, is always “settled” and definitive.

#242 Mike Rotch on 02.12.12 at 2:02 pm

227, Junius, re: global warming truth.

I dunno. 97% may say that “global warming” is true, and it probably is……

What I sincerely doubt is whether anywhere close to that percentage are in agreement that the single biggest factor in global warming is the set of man made effects.

I also doubt that there’s anywhere near full agreement that a radical cut in emissions, say 50% of today’s levels, will slow this cycle enough to make a practical difference.

I remain a skeptic.

Maybe instead of focussing our efforts on making basic “luxuries” (heat, power, transportation, food) unaffordable to the average consumer, the world would be better served if these smart people focussed their research and policy writing into ways to help both the developing and the developed world to cope with a warming planet.

#243 Smoking Man on 02.12.12 at 2:16 pm

#227 Junius on 02.12.12 at 11:41 am

Man made global warming pumping is an industry, what I want to know is, are you a down stream money beneficiary of the BS, if so I applauded you. Or did you just swallow the cool aid and have no monetary interest, if that’s the case, I have no respect for you what so ever.

Certified Post http://dyslexicsmokingman.blogspot.com/

#244 Westernman on 02.12.12 at 2:19 pm

Stupesing in Cabbagetown@#171,
Did I offend you?
Awwwwwwwwwww…

#245 Johnny on 02.12.12 at 2:38 pm

Another great article from Garth.
You are absolutely right. They are not in the home buying situation. But I have to admit that I understand Jenny, because she has fallen victim to the campaign that aims to encourage people to buy a house. One example of such a campaign is directly connected to the situation of Jake and his family: Calgary and Alberta Real Estate Market in 2011. I hope that people will pay more attention when buying homes, because loose everything in your 40s-50s is the worst thing for you to happen…

#246 Beach Girl on 02.12.12 at 2:55 pm

I have noticed a lot of women hating comments here of late.

Specifically Western Man. I think he should be re-monikered as Hans Solo.

Regarding men past a certain cell date. They tend to purchase large motorcycles to make up for their lagging testosterone.

I imagine there is a need to feel power between their legs that they are gradually losing. Pathetic. Hopefully they have gone to the optometrist.

Now my new flame happens to own 3 Harley Davidsons. How embarassing. I would never marry again.

With the exception that this moron will probably be found under a large transport truck.

Men are stupid, plain and simple. Garth doesn’t have Amazons. Imaginations after riding the Hog all day.

But, marriage is a ridiculous enterprise. If you survive one, do not repeat.

Miss Daisy and the Beach Girl.

National Westminster Annual dog show, Monday and and Tuesday. Like the terrier breed.

#247 Westernman on 02.12.12 at 3:02 pm

Beach Girl@#246,
You state… ” I would never marry again ”
Men everywhere breathe a collective sigh of relief…

#248 Gypsykid on 02.12.12 at 3:09 pm

Our house was just appraised at 1.3mil by a bank.
Bought it for a bit more then half that in ’04 and i thought it was overpriced even then…mind we live in one of the “desirable” ares in Toronto. But still…ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous.
Restaurants: around here, restaurants seem pretty busy. Just an observation, cant tell if business is same or really has gone down.

#249 Gypsykid on 02.12.12 at 3:20 pm

Beach Girl, dont waste your time responding to the likes of Westernman.
He’s a loser and he knows it…
Once dated a guy with a harley. I was 19.

#250 jess on 02.12.12 at 3:20 pm

Calgary homeless employed but cannot afford rent.
Canada Mortgage and Housing, however, estimates that a person needs to be making about $36,000 a year to rent a one bedroom apartment.

=====
Build a House for $1000?

September 16, 2011

1K House project – brainchild of MIT/CRE Chairman Tony Ciochetti – has been implemented in China by MIT Department of Architecture grad Ying chee Chui. the Pinwheel House, was designed by Ying chee Chui, a 2011 graduate of MIT’s Department of Architecture. Measuring 800 square feet, it was constructed in Mianyang, part of China’s Sichuan province.

The house boasts a modular layout with hollow brick walls with steel bars for reinforcement and wooden box beams. It is designed to withstand a magnitude 8.0 earthquake.
Although, prototype turned out to be 5925. (land not included.

============

CMBS delinquencies
e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Plaza_(Atlanta)

since 2007, it has lost 54% of its value.

Read more: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20120206/REAL_ESTATE/120209939#ixzz1mC5ptPuM

#251 jess on 02.12.12 at 3:25 pm

#247 Westernman

Monty Python – Every Sperm Is Sacred
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DkqU-uWojc

#252 Westernman on 02.12.12 at 3:25 pm

Gypsykid@#249,
You gals all work from the same gagbook, don’t you?

#253 Dad on 02.12.12 at 3:26 pm

You don’t have to like westernmans comments but he is absolutely correct that women as a group ar extremely poor decision makers. Especially related to finance. Re: personal bankruptcy statistics and:

http://www.toledoblade.com/Culture/2011/06/26/Boomer-women-falling-far-short-on-retirement-savings.html

Let’s talk about Israel and Palestine instead. — Garth

#254 Westernman on 02.12.12 at 3:40 pm

Dad@#253,
You are correct, Sir.
However, in Canada’s present state of socialist, matriarchal, politically correct, nanny state sickness being correct is completely irrelevent… it’s all about feeeeelings.
The contry suffers immensely from it but that is what happens when a nation allows itself to become feminized … as our feerless host would say – this will not end well for the country.

#255 Junius on 02.12.12 at 4:28 pm

#242 Mike Roach,

You said, “What I sincerely doubt is whether anywhere close to that percentage are in agreement that the single biggest factor in global warming is the set of man made effects.”

Why does it matter? What boogles my mind is how people can’t logically think this through.

Can anyone seriously doubt that some of it is caused by man? The drying of the rivers, the pollution we put in the seas and the billions of tonnes of carbon and other pollutants we put into the air. It defies reason.

Even if global warming is not happening at all why would we not support the investment into sustainable energies? Why do we hold our lives hostage to dictators and an oil business that clearly is gouging us at an astonishing rate. Not to mention their inability to prevent spills and other pollution. Remember the Gulf spill?

It is so shocking the proclivity we have for self deception and maintaining beliefs that are contrary to our interests.

#256 Junius on 02.12.12 at 4:32 pm

#243 Smoking Man,

You said, “Or did you just swallow the cool aid and have no monetary interest, if that’s the case, I have no respect for you what so ever.”

I see. So if I am selfish and just trying to fool others than that is ok. However if I am objective and developed this belief based on evidence you don’t respect me.

For the record, I have no financial interest in this belief. My interest is entirely based on the fact that I am a parent and member of the human race and hope that we can continue to survive as a species and not screw up the only planet within hundreds of light years of here capable of supporting life.

As your your type, the myopic, selfish, don’t care because I am checking out soon group I think it is pretty clear what I think of you.

#257 AG Sage on 02.12.12 at 4:51 pm

>#253 Dad on 02.12.12 at 3:26 pm
>You don’t have to like westernmans comments but he is absolutely correct that women as a group ar extremely poor decision makers. Especially related to finance. Re: personal bankruptcy statistics and:

I’m sure getting paid 70 cents on the dollar their entire career and being far more likely to have the expense of raising children alone and putting them through school has nothing to do with that statistic.

>Let’s talk about Israel and Palestine instead. — Garth
Oops, sorry.

#258 Wage Slave on 02.12.12 at 4:56 pm

For anyone who thinks climate change is a non-issue, I’ll ask if you also think we have no responsibility to the earth? The link leads to underwater pictures of the Pacific Ocean, in an area known as the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. The artist managed to make actual compositions out of the refuse, but does anyone think this pollution is good for the planet?

http://io9.com/5884405/underwater-trash-photos-look-like-scenes-from-an-alien-world

#259 Herb on 02.12.12 at 5:04 pm

#243 Smoking Man,

you seem hooked up by IV to Bay St. Read my #241 and tell me whether the money is upstream in the current petroleum and associated industries, or downstream on the “[m]an made global warming pumping” industry.

Depending on your answer, both of us being reasonable men, one of us should change his mind.

#260 Herb on 02.12.12 at 5:11 pm

#254 Westernmoron,

finally found the key to your problem: your feeeeelings have been hurt, and by a woman!!!!!

#261 Don on 02.12.12 at 5:12 pm

Things are getting slower for realtors in Victoria, “almost like someone turned off the tap”

To those arguing about men – women – stupid – marriage.

The obvious – both real estate and marriage are emotional buys especially in the heat of the moment. If you choose for suitability marriage can be rewarding. If you got married because others were getting married….ah see the trend. People need to mature and start looking beyond the surface. A loss due to either real estate or marriage can be financially devastating. What is the divorce rate among boomers today? Soon there will be an increase in the over leveraged horny house owners at any age. Financial stress has a way of breaking up mortgages and marriages.

Now back to the topic – oh yah – like it was already stated science leaves room for change/new developments, and so it the basis of true intelligence. Nature/earth has it’s own cycles but if you sh*t in your backyard sooner or later you pollute your own environment. There is a healthy balance for everything.

#262 Beach Girl on 02.12.12 at 5:14 pm

#249 Gypsykid on 02.12.12 at 3:20 pm

Beach Girl, dont waste your time responding to the likes of Westernman.
He’s a loser and he knows it…
Once dated a guy with a harley. I was 19.

_____

I can assure you I would never consider riding on the back of one of these Harleys with a Silverback in charge. Yes, a large ape, or for that matter an ape of smaller proportions. And diminishing at a rapid pace.

I am quite sure I have more assets than these lame monkeys.

I am well established without the assistance of any of these self satisfying primates. If you get my drift.

But all is well in my corner of the world.

Thank you Gypsykid.

To all the morons out there.

Who brought you into this world? DUH. I am sure there is disappointment in your mothers camp.

#263 Herb on 02.12.12 at 5:16 pm

#246 Beach Girl,

thank you for your uplifting comment. Having neither beard nor ‘bike, I was feeling inferior.

And why are you hanging around playing fourth fiddle to three Harleys?

#264 Raging Ranter on 02.12.12 at 5:31 pm

If you’re arguing for three hours about something you can’t afford to risk, maybe Jen’s beyond my help.

Bingo. I feel for the poor bastard. But we ALL know how this ends up. Add to that the fact that mother-in-law lives with them, constantly whispering to Jenny about how they need to buy a house, and how the kids need to put down roots (e.g.”Your father and I always made sure you kids had a stable home to grow up in”), and this poor SOB doesn’t have a chance.

His plaintive, defeatist-sounding email says it all. This was a last ditch effort to talk some sense into his wife. When she reads it, and shows it to Mom, they’ll both dig in their heels that much more. It’s house or divorce (and in five years, likely both). Keep your chin up Jake. It only gets worse from here.

#265 Phil on 02.12.12 at 5:43 pm

@Westernman, try telling that to any bank marketing exec. I defy anyone to find one bank commercial that does not portray the goofy man receiving strategic financial advice from a wise female.

#266 TurnerNation on 02.12.12 at 6:02 pm

Junius: does your pet monkey like eating out? Which is his favourite place? White Spot? Rainforest Cafe?

#267 live within your means on 02.12.12 at 6:09 pm

#44 Westernman on 02.11.12 at 12:45 am
Mel@#37,
Re: your comment ” To the Westernman ”
Thanks for your concern but I do just fine in that regard – but women, like any dangerous and unstable substance, need to be carefully managed and controlled… it’s akin to driving a auto – it can be a wonderful servant but you must skillfully control it – you can’t let it go on it’s own without guidance…

…………………..

Not sure whether you’re joking or what. How can anyone put forth such retarded 50’s drivel.

#268 Westernman on 02.12.12 at 6:09 pm

Phil @ # 264,
This is a good example why you should avoid T.V. at all costs – it doesn’t represent reality… guard your physcological enviornment closely. Stay away from MSM – it is for brainwashing sheeple and selling crap…

#269 The Thing in the Basement on 02.12.12 at 6:37 pm

Herb – you’re asking us to follow the money. But dont so many of those GW/CC “pumpers” make a vast majority/
total income from this?

255 Junius

“Can anyone seriously doubt that some of it is caused by man? The drying of the rivers, the pollution we put in the seas and the billions of tonnes of carbon and other pollutants we put into the air. It defies reason.

Even if global warming is not happening at all why would we not support the investment into sustainable energies?”

J – this is reasoned and logical and how you should have
presented your position from the start.

#270 Westernman on 02.12.12 at 7:33 pm

Live within your means@#267,
Not sure if you are male or female… if you are female your response is predictable – after all, you all work from the same gagbook, however if you are male ( not to be confused with being a man ) then I invite you to enter into a legal relationship with a women with the state holding the trump hand ( and not in your favour I might add ) and then just let her have complete and total control of the money and let us know how that turns out…
Go ahead…try it…put your money where your mouth is.

#271 Herb on 02.12.12 at 9:20 pm

#269 The Thing in the Basement,

you ask “But don’t so many of those GW/CC ‘pumpers’ make a vast majority/total income from this?”

I don’t know. Do you know how many of the “deniers” make their major or total income from denying GW/CC? How many spokesmen, marketers and researchers get paid by each side? Do these figures – and let us call them what they are: statistics to support ad hominem arguments – even matter in view of the overall amounts at stake? How many livelihoods and investments are at risk in corporations affected either way?

Given all the arguments and counterarguments, the cui bono question looks like the most reliable indicator to me. Pretty hard to “spin” that. Which is one reason I frankly don’t expect it to be pursued.

#272 disciple on 02.13.12 at 10:21 am

Junius… You are making amateurish logical mistakes.

1) you are confusing real ecological issues with the politically fraudulent theory of “climate change” formerly known as “global warming”. I agree that the water table is depleting. I agree that the oceans are polluted. I agree that poor frogs and salamanders are suffering mutations. Please separate in your mind these problems with the politics. Can you do that?
2) you are labeling everyone who does not believe in your popular theory as oil industry shills. This is clearly flawed logic and only betrays your disposition.
3) your entire claim rests on your assertion that because a lot of people believe in it, then it must be true. Do I really need to resurrect literally thousands of examples that prove unequivocally (you like that word for some reason) that this is indeed false?

Try again. You may still convince me.

#273 disciple on 02.13.12 at 10:25 am

Bad ideas. Add “climate change” to that history dustbin.

http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

#274 disciple on 02.13.12 at 10:37 am

If you research Google for “next ice age overdue” it gets interesting. Our planet was a lot warmer in the 1930’s than it is now.

It appears there is a warming of about 1 degree in the last hundred years. But the evidence is non-existent that this is not the natural climate change cycle.
What is clear, however, is that climate change scientists are fanatics who try to fiddle the data and conceal it. Why would they do this?

Anyone who brings out the old trick of receding glaciers, Greenland icecap, north polar sea ice decreasing, arid regions have become more arid, floods more catastrophic, hurricanes and cyclones more destructive, you can instantly assume and recognize that:

This is purely NON-scientific propaganda by the World Wildlife Fund and Greenpeace (both with a massive vested interest in alarmism), a now-withdrawn New Scientist article, a student dissertation and a piece from a climbing magazine. Check out a simple chart here:
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/a-simple-proof-that-global-warming-is-not-manmade/

Your serve.

#275 zeeman1 on 02.13.12 at 4:23 pm

# 258 Wage Slave.

what does garbage from China and Asia floating in the Pacific have to do with global warming? Pollution like that is provable and solvable. man made “global warming” is not.

#276 zeeman1 on 02.13.12 at 4:35 pm

#256 Junius.

Parent or not, you’re a scientific illiterate who seems willing to act as a “useful idiot” and be fleeced by a tax an air (carbon tax). Your ancestors cut down entire forests and burned coal for 6 months of the year to stay warm all the while not caring a whit for their descendants, most of whom turned out fine. Teach your kid HOW to think, not WHAT to think and he’ll sort through the BS and turn out fine.