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	<title>Comments on: The one who follows</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: Onemorething</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59836</link>
		<dc:creator>Onemorething</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59836</guid>
		<description>#22 James In Ottawa,

Pretty narrow thinking here!  Too many shoes to drop, nothing positive to report moving forward.

90% working or not, it&#039;s the ability to service the debt and anyone owning homes without at least 30% equity right now will be told to leave their homes in the next 3-7 years.  VAN and TO 50%.  RE Pandemic.

WANT to stay in your home????  Are you serious, need a place to live obvious, but for most it wont be an option.

With a flood of listings coming if you miss the opportunity to sell you will be shackled to the sinking ship you live in.

If you rolled the dice on low rates and inflated values you simply lost.  If you pulled money out of your home to where you now own less that 30% you will loose.

If you dont have alternative investements that are either liquid of can be used a collateral after the avg. 30% correction you may still fall below the line.

Boomers retiring with all equity in homes will be smoked after the correction.

Anyone loosing a job is done.  Retired boomers = retired jobs.

Dont for a second be fooled by 10% U3 unemployment as the U6 is about 17% but REAL unemployment and what it feels to be unemployed is more like 25% so your 90% more likely 75% shortly.

Your debt will be collected until you die.  It is different in Canada for sure!!!

If you are different from the the above, you are only part of a few!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#22 James In Ottawa,</p>
<p>Pretty narrow thinking here!  Too many shoes to drop, nothing positive to report moving forward.</p>
<p>90% working or not, it&#8217;s the ability to service the debt and anyone owning homes without at least 30% equity right now will be told to leave their homes in the next 3-7 years.  VAN and TO 50%.  RE Pandemic.</p>
<p>WANT to stay in your home????  Are you serious, need a place to live obvious, but for most it wont be an option.</p>
<p>With a flood of listings coming if you miss the opportunity to sell you will be shackled to the sinking ship you live in.</p>
<p>If you rolled the dice on low rates and inflated values you simply lost.  If you pulled money out of your home to where you now own less that 30% you will loose.</p>
<p>If you dont have alternative investements that are either liquid of can be used a collateral after the avg. 30% correction you may still fall below the line.</p>
<p>Boomers retiring with all equity in homes will be smoked after the correction.</p>
<p>Anyone loosing a job is done.  Retired boomers = retired jobs.</p>
<p>Dont for a second be fooled by 10% U3 unemployment as the U6 is about 17% but REAL unemployment and what it feels to be unemployed is more like 25% so your 90% more likely 75% shortly.</p>
<p>Your debt will be collected until you die.  It is different in Canada for sure!!!</p>
<p>If you are different from the the above, you are only part of a few!</p>
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		<title>By: conf in T.O</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59832</link>
		<dc:creator>conf in T.O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59832</guid>
		<description>#116 TheTruth

Tell your theory to our identical neighbours to the south who&#039;s time ran out and are renting or... on the street now. They will not be intergenerational real estate owners. Nice places too, like Riverside Ca.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#116 TheTruth</p>
<p>Tell your theory to our identical neighbours to the south who&#8217;s time ran out and are renting or&#8230; on the street now. They will not be intergenerational real estate owners. Nice places too, like Riverside Ca.</p>
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		<title>By: James in Ottawa</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59831</link>
		<dc:creator>James in Ottawa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59831</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments just to let you know I did read them, just might buy the book Think and grow rich.
cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments just to let you know I did read them, just might buy the book Think and grow rich.<br />
cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59816</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59816</guid>
		<description>Are we being tricked...again?

Government spending is what governments do to get the economy moving again. So why is Obama announcing a spending freeze, yet continuing to push for of a second stimulus at the same time? 

Isn&#039;t that an oxymoron of a plan?

It is. But it&#039;s not what you think. 

The Fed has already announced that we are out of a recession. Last quarter, GDP growth in the US hit 5.7 - the highest ever in the last six years! Everything is going great right? Wrong.

Official unemployment continues to remain above 10%, with the real unemployment rate at over 20%. 

That&#039;s a staggering 1 out of 5 Americans who are jobless!

http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001yqHNAgdI3XiN1mfvXJhqIykHU8OIKkoQzyNhuGafbbYIWVYanTE1CYbxMDprdjD0usWmulhbS9B3fbAAa8YcJfLTwMDx9cHAKIpq1hxqWgA%3D

Good read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we being tricked&#8230;again?</p>
<p>Government spending is what governments do to get the economy moving again. So why is Obama announcing a spending freeze, yet continuing to push for of a second stimulus at the same time? </p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that an oxymoron of a plan?</p>
<p>It is. But it&#8217;s not what you think. </p>
<p>The Fed has already announced that we are out of a recession. Last quarter, GDP growth in the US hit 5.7 &#8211; the highest ever in the last six years! Everything is going great right? Wrong.</p>
<p>Official unemployment continues to remain above 10%, with the real unemployment rate at over 20%. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a staggering 1 out of 5 Americans who are jobless!</p>
<p><a href="http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001yqHNAgdI3XiN1mfvXJhqIykHU8OIKkoQzyNhuGafbbYIWVYanTE1CYbxMDprdjD0usWmulhbS9B3fbAAa8YcJfLTwMDx9cHAKIpq1hxqWgA%3D" rel="nofollow">http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001yqHNAgdI3XiN1mfvXJhqIykHU8OIKkoQzyNhuGafbbYIWVYanTE1CYbxMDprdjD0usWmulhbS9B3fbAAa8YcJfLTwMDx9cHAKIpq1hxqWgA%3D</a></p>
<p>Good read!</p>
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		<title>By: Live Within Your Means</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59797</link>
		<dc:creator>Live Within Your Means</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59797</guid>
		<description>#79 Rural Rick on 01.30.10 at 7:29 pm 
#60 Live Within Your Means
Don’t blame this on ants and poison yourself with pesticides. The ants live in rotten wood. They don’t rot it. You have a moisture problem not an ant problem.
Learn how to fix this yourself and pay down your debt with the money you save.

Rural Rick - We are not allowed to use Pesticides where we live.  We live on the east coast and I do realize we have a moisture problem.  All of our windows, except the kitchen &amp; patio doors (German technology) are wood.  We live in a split entry.  We need to replace them with plastic (?) ones and will likely have to replace the framing, etc. with wood that is impervious to ants.  Downstairs there are 8 windows to replace.  In addition, the windows on the main level need to be replaced.  Two in the back are old sliders (most innefficient - heat wise) &amp; have another 2 and a very large picture window that have to be replaced.   Years ago my husband put in an air/heat exchanger.  Before that on a cold winter&#039;s morning water would sit on the window sills.  I used to put old towels each morning to soak up the water.  I&#039;ve done lots of research on one of the fed govt websites re windows.  I&#039;d love to replace all the remaining windows withe the German technology ones (actually made in our prov.) but we can&#039;t afford them.

You said &quot;and pay down your debt with the money you save.&quot;

We don&#039;t have any debt.  It&#039;s just that I&#039;m wondering whether we should pay cash for these windows or take out a HELOC loan.  I have no idea what a HELOC rate would be vs what we could gain by taking those $$$ and investing in some of the type of bonds that Garth suggests in his book.  Sorry if I&#039;m not making myself clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#79 Rural Rick on 01.30.10 at 7:29 pm<br />
#60 Live Within Your Means<br />
Don’t blame this on ants and poison yourself with pesticides. The ants live in rotten wood. They don’t rot it. You have a moisture problem not an ant problem.<br />
Learn how to fix this yourself and pay down your debt with the money you save.</p>
<p>Rural Rick &#8211; We are not allowed to use Pesticides where we live.  We live on the east coast and I do realize we have a moisture problem.  All of our windows, except the kitchen &amp; patio doors (German technology) are wood.  We live in a split entry.  We need to replace them with plastic (?) ones and will likely have to replace the framing, etc. with wood that is impervious to ants.  Downstairs there are 8 windows to replace.  In addition, the windows on the main level need to be replaced.  Two in the back are old sliders (most innefficient &#8211; heat wise) &amp; have another 2 and a very large picture window that have to be replaced.   Years ago my husband put in an air/heat exchanger.  Before that on a cold winter&#8217;s morning water would sit on the window sills.  I used to put old towels each morning to soak up the water.  I&#8217;ve done lots of research on one of the fed govt websites re windows.  I&#8217;d love to replace all the remaining windows withe the German technology ones (actually made in our prov.) but we can&#8217;t afford them.</p>
<p>You said &#8220;and pay down your debt with the money you save.&#8221;</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have any debt.  It&#8217;s just that I&#8217;m wondering whether we should pay cash for these windows or take out a HELOC loan.  I have no idea what a HELOC rate would be vs what we could gain by taking those $$$ and investing in some of the type of bonds that Garth suggests in his book.  Sorry if I&#8217;m not making myself clear.</p>
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		<title>By: TheTruth</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59791</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59791</guid>
		<description>Another little tidbit:

In Northern farmland areas of India, an acre of good farmland leased out provides a return of 1-2%.  Yet you can sell the acre and deposit the money in a bank and earn 5 times more interest.

Majority of people don&#039;t sell.  Why??  I suppose that the land will always be there and will provide a return on investment for hundreds of years as it has for the last few centuries.  

Vancouver market looks rational when compared to the farmland market in The plains of northern India.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another little tidbit:</p>
<p>In Northern farmland areas of India, an acre of good farmland leased out provides a return of 1-2%.  Yet you can sell the acre and deposit the money in a bank and earn 5 times more interest.</p>
<p>Majority of people don&#8217;t sell.  Why??  I suppose that the land will always be there and will provide a return on investment for hundreds of years as it has for the last few centuries.  </p>
<p>Vancouver market looks rational when compared to the farmland market in The plains of northern India.</p>
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		<title>By: TheTruth</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59790</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59790</guid>
		<description>#104 Junius

I hear you.  One of the points I&#039;m trying to bring across is that as time marches forward , incomes have little to do with housing prices.  Wealth and where to park your money do.

Vancouver&#039;s prices are not expensive compared to many cities in the world.  Smaller cities such as Ludhiana and Jallandher have higher land prices within the city than Vancouver.  The going wage for labour for a 10 hour day is about $5 per day.  The income to price ratio is off the charts and has been going in that direction for a while.

Don&#039;t compare Vancouver to a select few cities like the Demographia survey does.  There are many smaller cities in the world where the pay is less and land is more expensive.

The only reason I could think for this is people believe that land is intergenerational.  By aquiring it, you aquire it for future generations.  It will always be there...intergenerational family wealth.  Now what an advantage for the children as they go through life with this land.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#104 Junius</p>
<p>I hear you.  One of the points I&#8217;m trying to bring across is that as time marches forward , incomes have little to do with housing prices.  Wealth and where to park your money do.</p>
<p>Vancouver&#8217;s prices are not expensive compared to many cities in the world.  Smaller cities such as Ludhiana and Jallandher have higher land prices within the city than Vancouver.  The going wage for labour for a 10 hour day is about $5 per day.  The income to price ratio is off the charts and has been going in that direction for a while.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t compare Vancouver to a select few cities like the Demographia survey does.  There are many smaller cities in the world where the pay is less and land is more expensive.</p>
<p>The only reason I could think for this is people believe that land is intergenerational.  By aquiring it, you aquire it for future generations.  It will always be there&#8230;intergenerational family wealth.  Now what an advantage for the children as they go through life with this land.</p>
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		<title>By: Live Within Your Means</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59785</link>
		<dc:creator>Live Within Your Means</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59785</guid>
		<description>James in Ottawa wrote:

“We all buy a brand new cars for $30,000…”


James - we haven&#039;t bought brand new cars for years.  We buy used ones that are a couple of years old at a good price and keep them as long as we can.  Once we feel we&#039;ll have to start putting major bucks into them, we sell them.  Works for us.  My husband is on his 2nd Camry and I have an Accord.  His Camry doesn&#039;t have any brake problems.  Only problems I&#039;ve had with my Accord is with the air conditioning and had to replace a battery.  I drive very little.  If and when I buy another it will be a smaller car as I hate large cars.  We owned several Mitsubishi Colts.  Loved them but couldn&#039;t get used parts where we live.  We have never taken our cars in to dealers for all those checkups.  Instead, we have a reliable mechanic with whom my husband barters his knowledge/service.  We spend very little on car maintenance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James in Ottawa wrote:</p>
<p>“We all buy a brand new cars for $30,000…”</p>
<p>James &#8211; we haven&#8217;t bought brand new cars for years.  We buy used ones that are a couple of years old at a good price and keep them as long as we can.  Once we feel we&#8217;ll have to start putting major bucks into them, we sell them.  Works for us.  My husband is on his 2nd Camry and I have an Accord.  His Camry doesn&#8217;t have any brake problems.  Only problems I&#8217;ve had with my Accord is with the air conditioning and had to replace a battery.  I drive very little.  If and when I buy another it will be a smaller car as I hate large cars.  We owned several Mitsubishi Colts.  Loved them but couldn&#8217;t get used parts where we live.  We have never taken our cars in to dealers for all those checkups.  Instead, we have a reliable mechanic with whom my husband barters his knowledge/service.  We spend very little on car maintenance.</p>
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		<title>By: conf in T.O</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59777</link>
		<dc:creator>conf in T.O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59777</guid>
		<description>#89 the truth

As replayed through out history- 
A REAL SUSTAINABLE HEALTHY HOUSING MARKET NEEDS A REAL HEALTHY SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY WITH HIGH PAYING JOBS FOR THE MASSES! END OF STORY!

Maybe it would help if you didn’t try to rationalize why houses in BC will continue to sell for $1M+ and into the extended future due to investment by rich immigrants and focus to us how the MASSES will earn enough income to service their large debt ratios later. 

We all know, it all boils down to masses and their money and if you can justify how BC is going to sustain large incomes over the long term, you may gain more credibility with the people that have the ability of analysis with reason.

Mortgages are a long term commitment and anything can happen over the next 5 years but one thing is for sure we are at the bottom of the interest rate curve. Later come debt service and you better have the jobs market able to service those debts made now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#89 the truth</p>
<p>As replayed through out history-<br />
A REAL SUSTAINABLE HEALTHY HOUSING MARKET NEEDS A REAL HEALTHY SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY WITH HIGH PAYING JOBS FOR THE MASSES! END OF STORY!</p>
<p>Maybe it would help if you didn’t try to rationalize why houses in BC will continue to sell for $1M+ and into the extended future due to investment by rich immigrants and focus to us how the MASSES will earn enough income to service their large debt ratios later. </p>
<p>We all know, it all boils down to masses and their money and if you can justify how BC is going to sustain large incomes over the long term, you may gain more credibility with the people that have the ability of analysis with reason.</p>
<p>Mortgages are a long term commitment and anything can happen over the next 5 years but one thing is for sure we are at the bottom of the interest rate curve. Later come debt service and you better have the jobs market able to service those debts made now.</p>
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		<title>By: $fromA$ia ( o Y o )</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2010/01/29/the-one-who-follows/comment-page-3/#comment-59775</link>
		<dc:creator>$fromA$ia ( o Y o )</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4797#comment-59775</guid>
		<description>Order one here and get a $2,500 autograph free! — Garth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You cheap slut. You told me it was worth $10,000.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Liked your comments on Check 6, one thing you might want to add to your vision is how the gov spent 1/4 of Ameriacas stimulus and that we have 1/10th their population!!!

Can you say we are more vulnerable to inflation than the Amerikans? It might be a reason that the BOC may move rates before the Americans!

Ever thought that wealthy A$ian$ from bubble real estate areas such as Hong Kong and Shanghai would find prices in Vancouver cheap and help to drive prices up more considering the low rates that have contributed to their bubble back home are here too?

If I remember correctly the Chinese gov had to move quickly to stop the banks from lending so much since in the first 22 days of the year something like half of their stimulous has been spent.( how much of that was used to purchase houses already in a bubble?) In a closed environment where their currency is held within the country this is much more inflationary!

Oh, and by the way, I really enjoyed how you related the stimulous to drugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Order one here and get a $2,500 autograph free! — Garth<br />
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>You cheap slut. You told me it was worth $10,000.</p>
<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>Liked your comments on Check 6, one thing you might want to add to your vision is how the gov spent 1/4 of Ameriacas stimulus and that we have 1/10th their population!!!</p>
<p>Can you say we are more vulnerable to inflation than the Amerikans? It might be a reason that the BOC may move rates before the Americans!</p>
<p>Ever thought that wealthy A$ian$ from bubble real estate areas such as Hong Kong and Shanghai would find prices in Vancouver cheap and help to drive prices up more considering the low rates that have contributed to their bubble back home are here too?</p>
<p>If I remember correctly the Chinese gov had to move quickly to stop the banks from lending so much since in the first 22 days of the year something like half of their stimulous has been spent.( how much of that was used to purchase houses already in a bubble?) In a closed environment where their currency is held within the country this is much more inflationary!</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, I really enjoyed how you related the stimulous to drugs.</p>
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