Comments on: Spec nation http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/29/spec-nation/ Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:56:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ret http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/29/spec-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-52359 Ret Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:20:38 +0000 http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4200#comment-52359 The government and the banks both encourage citizens to save like squirrels in their personal RRSP's. Free money back at tax time. Yippeeee! The banks get a huge pool of cash to lend out to the real estate crowd just in time for the spring market and millions of dollars in service charges and plan fees to boot for essentially doing nothing. Try to make a withdrawal and the first words out of their mouth are, "But you'll have to pay taxes to the government!" This usually is enough to get you to back-off. If not, they threaten hefty service charges for each withdrawal. That RRSP seemed like a great idea at the time, and it was - for the Bank! The government hopes that you either hold onto every $ in your plan or pass it on to your significant other. At this point, the trap has been set. Once the last holder of the plan is gone, the Revenuers move in for the kill. The recipients of your estate will wonder why you didn't enjoy some of your wealth when you had the chance and, why you were so stupid about the tax consequences. Not exactly the final memory that I intend to leave. By all means, have investments, but I see RRSP's as a sucker's game perpetuated by Banks and the Government. Unless your employer is using this as some kind of pension plan for you, that they are jointly contributing to, why would you hold any RRSP's? The government and the banks both encourage citizens to save like squirrels in their personal RRSP’s. Free money back at tax time. Yippeeee!
The banks get a huge pool of cash to lend out to the real estate crowd just in time for the spring market and millions of dollars in service charges and plan fees to boot for essentially doing nothing. Try to make a withdrawal and the first words out of their mouth are, “But you’ll have to pay taxes to the government!” This usually is enough to get you to back-off. If not, they threaten hefty service charges for each withdrawal. That RRSP seemed like a great idea at the time, and it was – for the Bank!
The government hopes that you either hold onto every $ in your plan or pass it on to your significant other. At this point, the trap has been set.
Once the last holder of the plan is gone, the Revenuers move in for the kill. The recipients of your estate will wonder why you didn’t enjoy some of your wealth when you had the chance and, why you were so stupid about the tax consequences. Not exactly the final memory that I intend to leave.
By all means, have investments, but I see RRSP’s as a sucker’s game perpetuated by Banks and the Government. Unless your employer is using this as some kind of pension plan for you, that they are jointly contributing to, why would you hold any RRSP’s?

]]> By: Samuel Adams http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/29/spec-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-52282 Samuel Adams Wed, 02 Dec 2009 15:30:23 +0000 http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4200#comment-52282 Understanding national debts of sovereign nations - please help! Regarding the chart of countries debt expressed as a total percentage of GDP, it seems that virtually all countries on earth are in debt. This is very confusing. If we take all the countries in the world together, and allow them to both borrow from and lend to one another - mustn’t the totals balance? I mean for every billion, or even trillion dollars one country is in debt, shouldn’t there be a country who is owed that amount of money? If this is not the case, then who in the world is this money owed to? It almost appears as if there is some unknown entity which loans money to virtually all national governments. How could such an entity have come into existence? And where in the world does it get the money to lend in the first place? [Aside to Garth - if you decide to answer this post on your blog, you might just use the above section, I’ll include the rest in case you can answer my other questions as well.] What is the history of government debt amongst various countries? Which country was the first to go into debt? Who lent them the money? When did all this begin? Has there historically ever been a country that functioned for any length of time debt free? Why can’t any country simply stick to a budget and function debt-free? Regarding the morality or legality of government debt, how can a government even incur a debt? Isn’t borrowing money a contract? Doesn’t a contract require the consent of both parties? How can a government give consent to a loan that will be repaid by people who aren’t even born yet? Those people didn’t vote for the government or give their consent in any way. Even if we imagine that the government of the day rules by the consent of the governed (an increasingly questionable premise), and their authority to incur debt is somehow legitimate, wouldn’t the conditions of the loan have to be such that it’s repayment schedule was completed by the end of that particular government’s term in office? Four years in the States, and up to five in Canada? What possible moral justification could there be for a government incurring a debt, during their rule, which is to be repaid during another’s rule, by citizens other than those who elected said government? It seems that any loan a government takes on in the name of it’s citizens which is not structured to be paid back entirely within that government’s time in power - is not legitimate. No government has the right to apply for such a loan. No lending institution should ever make such a loan. Such a loan is not a contract - since both parties did not consent to it. The citizens of subsequent governments of that country need not feel any obligation to repay illegitimate, illegal, non-contractual loans taken in the name of a government which they never lived under. Can I get a bank loan which requires my children and grandchildren to finish paying it off? What would happen if they decided not to pay up? How is this situation any different from government incurred debt? Could it be that we simply have no moral nor legal reason to pay? Understanding national debts of sovereign nations – please help!

Regarding the chart of countries debt expressed as a total percentage of GDP, it seems that virtually all countries on earth are in debt. This is very confusing. If we take all the countries in the world together, and allow them to both borrow from and lend to one another – mustn’t the totals balance? I mean for every billion, or even trillion dollars one country is in debt, shouldn’t there be a country who is owed that amount of money?

If this is not the case, then who in the world is this money owed to?

It almost appears as if there is some unknown entity which loans money to virtually all national governments. How could such an entity have come into existence? And where in the world does it get the money to lend in the first place?

[Aside to Garth - if you decide to answer this post on your blog, you might just use the above section, I’ll include the rest in case you can answer my other questions as well.]

What is the history of government debt amongst various countries? Which country was the first to go into debt? Who lent them the money? When did all this begin? Has there historically ever been a country that functioned for any length of time debt free? Why can’t any country simply stick to a budget and function debt-free?

Regarding the morality or legality of government debt, how can a government even incur a debt? Isn’t borrowing money a contract? Doesn’t a contract require the consent of both parties? How can a government give consent to a loan that will be repaid by people who aren’t even born yet? Those people didn’t vote for the government or give their consent in any way.

Even if we imagine that the government of the day rules by the consent of the governed (an increasingly questionable premise), and their authority to incur debt is somehow legitimate, wouldn’t the conditions of the loan have to be such that it’s repayment schedule was completed by the end of that particular government’s term in office? Four years in the States, and up to five in Canada?

What possible moral justification could there be for a government incurring a debt, during their rule, which is to be repaid during another’s rule, by citizens other than those who elected said government?

It seems that any loan a government takes on in the name of it’s citizens which is not structured to be paid back entirely within that government’s time in power – is not legitimate.

No government has the right to apply for such a loan. No lending institution should ever make such a loan. Such a loan is not a contract – since both parties did not consent to it. The citizens of subsequent governments of that country need not feel any obligation to repay illegitimate, illegal, non-contractual loans taken in the name of a government which they never lived under.

Can I get a bank loan which requires my children and grandchildren to finish paying it off? What would happen if they decided not to pay up? How is this situation any different from government incurred debt?

Could it be that we simply have no moral nor legal reason to pay?

]]> By: Zed http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/29/spec-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-52211 Zed Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:51:05 +0000 http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4200#comment-52211 Debt to GDP in Canada may be more like $2 Trillion or 131% of GDP. See the math at: http://marketdepth.typepad.com/marketdepth/2009/11/so-shall-we-reap.html Debt to GDP in Canada may be more like $2 Trillion or 131% of GDP. See the math at:

http://marketdepth.typepad.com/marketdepth/2009/11/so-shall-we-reap.html

]]> By: Eli http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/29/spec-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-52098 Eli Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:03:48 +0000 http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4200#comment-52098 For the person living in Vancouver...complaining that the properties around her have gone up by astronomical amounts...just a observation..why don't you sell your house and cash in! doh! For the person living in Vancouver…complaining that the properties around her have gone up by astronomical amounts…just a observation..why don’t you sell your house and cash in! doh!

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