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	<title>Comments on: Soft landing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: Dan in Victoria</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51852</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan in Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 00:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51852</guid>
		<description>Post#144 Robert,don&#039;t shoot the messenger man. Just go sit down town at a bench in a mall, look to you right then look to your left, they are all around you. The government hasn&#039;t had any trouble fleecing a billion a week out of &#039;em so far. I wish that things were diffrent, we haven&#039;t got there yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post#144 Robert,don&#8217;t shoot the messenger man. Just go sit down town at a bench in a mall, look to you right then look to your left, they are all around you. The government hasn&#8217;t had any trouble fleecing a billion a week out of &#8216;em so far. I wish that things were diffrent, we haven&#8217;t got there yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendo in Calgary</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51829</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendo in Calgary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51829</guid>
		<description>Hey...Loved # 139.  If you own your own house now mortage free, would you sell?  I am confused.  During times of inflation, don&#039;t housing prices do up dramatically?  So this would increase the value of your house, and its better to hold on to it, and see a even more ridiculous increase.....?

&lt;em&gt;When interest rates rise with inflation there is no &#039;dramatic&#039; real estate gain. -- Garth&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey&#8230;Loved # 139.  If you own your own house now mortage free, would you sell?  I am confused.  During times of inflation, don&#8217;t housing prices do up dramatically?  So this would increase the value of your house, and its better to hold on to it, and see a even more ridiculous increase&#8230;..?</p>
<p><em>When interest rates rise with inflation there is no &#8216;dramatic&#8217; real estate gain. &#8212; Garth</em></p>
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		<title>By: robert</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51793</link>
		<dc:creator>robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51793</guid>
		<description>#138 Dan in Victoria

Who is going to lend to a government that won&#039;t raise taxes on those who have the money (Nortel execs, creatures of Bay Street, et al) and refuses to cut boondoggle spending (eg the music video they just dropped 650K on to encourage the 18 to 24 crowd to get immunized for H1N1)? They are either going to get with the new frugality, common sense, pay as you go program or find a whole new class of stupid on another planet to borrow from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#138 Dan in Victoria</p>
<p>Who is going to lend to a government that won&#8217;t raise taxes on those who have the money (Nortel execs, creatures of Bay Street, et al) and refuses to cut boondoggle spending (eg the music video they just dropped 650K on to encourage the 18 to 24 crowd to get immunized for H1N1)? They are either going to get with the new frugality, common sense, pay as you go program or find a whole new class of stupid on another planet to borrow from.</p>
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		<title>By: alf</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51766</link>
		<dc:creator>alf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 07:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51766</guid>
		<description>CRO – A lot of bloggers here own their homes, so
give it up. Your dumb landlord was smart enough to buy
when it was cheap. You missed the boat. Accept it. Live with it. There should be another boat sometime, just cant say exactly when.

I prefer the term janitor over landlord, just feels more honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CRO – A lot of bloggers here own their homes, so<br />
give it up. Your dumb landlord was smart enough to buy<br />
when it was cheap. You missed the boat. Accept it. Live with it. There should be another boat sometime, just cant say exactly when.</p>
<p>I prefer the term janitor over landlord, just feels more honest.</p>
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		<title>By: disconnect</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51743</link>
		<dc:creator>disconnect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51743</guid>
		<description>Here are some links wrt how many paid income tax in CANADA:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/stts/gb07/pst/fnl/html/tbl1-eng.html
For 2007, 16,638,470 paid taxes (i.e., &quot;Taxable returns&quot;) and there were:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/start-debut-eng.html
33,739,859 people in Canada, so lets say 33mil in 2007.
That gives me 16.64/33*100 = 50.4% who paid income tax, that&#039;s 49.6% who did not (pay any).
Must be a baby boom going on (not), or it&#039;s all those folks with assets (undeclared) overseas (maybe).

For the bell province, you should be able to use the links to figure it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some links wrt how many paid income tax in CANADA:<br />
<a href="http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/stts/gb07/pst/fnl/html/tbl1-eng.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/stts/gb07/pst/fnl/html/tbl1-eng.html</a><br />
For 2007, 16,638,470 paid taxes (i.e., &#8220;Taxable returns&#8221;) and there were:<br />
<a href="http://www.statcan.gc.ca/start-debut-eng.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.statcan.gc.ca/start-debut-eng.html</a><br />
33,739,859 people in Canada, so lets say 33mil in 2007.<br />
That gives me 16.64/33*100 = 50.4% who paid income tax, that&#8217;s 49.6% who did not (pay any).<br />
Must be a baby boom going on (not), or it&#8217;s all those folks with assets (undeclared) overseas (maybe).</p>
<p>For the bell province, you should be able to use the links to figure it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer like you</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51742</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer like you</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51742</guid>
		<description>David@72 
 
&quot;Through no doing of their own, their equity increases &quot;

So somebody else paid my mortgage?

Evangeline@95

Big thank you for the link. I get lost for hours in the stascan site.

Rory - did you have &quot;USA sucks&quot; in CROs list?

CRO - A lot of bloggers here own their homes, so 
give it up. Your dumb landlord was smart enough to buy 
when it was cheap. You missed the boat. Accept it. Live with it. There should be another boat sometime, just cant say exactly when.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David@72 </p>
<p>&#8220;Through no doing of their own, their equity increases &#8221;</p>
<p>So somebody else paid my mortgage?</p>
<p>Evangeline@95</p>
<p>Big thank you for the link. I get lost for hours in the stascan site.</p>
<p>Rory &#8211; did you have &#8220;USA sucks&#8221; in CROs list?</p>
<p>CRO &#8211; A lot of bloggers here own their homes, so<br />
give it up. Your dumb landlord was smart enough to buy<br />
when it was cheap. You missed the boat. Accept it. Live with it. There should be another boat sometime, just cant say exactly when.</p>
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		<title>By: Coho</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51741</link>
		<dc:creator>Coho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51741</guid>
		<description>Calgary Rocks #86,

&lt;i&gt;To Harper’s credit he has, so far, kept us out of the global warming scam. &lt;/i&gt;

I have a hunch that&#039;ll change after next months G20 on climate change in Copenhagen.  He&#039;ll, like everyoneelse will be told to fall in line.

&lt;i&gt;Not that we shouldn’t help the environment, which he has done, but transfering trillions to 3rd world dictators is not the way to go.&lt;/i&gt;

The money generated will fund the NWO under a One World Government.

This will not end well for the sheeple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calgary Rocks #86,</p>
<p><i>To Harper’s credit he has, so far, kept us out of the global warming scam. </i></p>
<p>I have a hunch that&#8217;ll change after next months G20 on climate change in Copenhagen.  He&#8217;ll, like everyoneelse will be told to fall in line.</p>
<p><i>Not that we shouldn’t help the environment, which he has done, but transfering trillions to 3rd world dictators is not the way to go.</i></p>
<p>The money generated will fund the NWO under a One World Government.</p>
<p>This will not end well for the sheeple.</p>
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		<title>By: Schroedinger's Bull</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51740</link>
		<dc:creator>Schroedinger's Bull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51740</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll tell you what:  I think it&#039;s highly unlikely that the CMHC would insure longer ams (40, 45, 50 yr) at this point...but if they did, I would buy the first 10 houses I could find, because this would cause home prices to skyrocket...just like the reduction from 40 year to 35 year ams excluded buyers and contributed (in part) to the correction from Oct 08 to Spring 09.  

In fact, I think it&#039;s fairly obvious that a great deal of the correction we saw earlier in the year was due in large part to the short-lived contraction in mortgage credit (i.e. lenders actually sticking to 5% 35 year for a few months.  That has since changed, and you can, once again, purchase a house with effectively zero down.)  

On the other hand, the best way for the CMHC to deal with the inevitable shortfall when variable and fixed rates actually start rising again next year is to start restricting the mortgages that they&#039;ll insure, which means say goodbye to insured 35 year ams...and that all by itself will contribute to another minor correction.  I think the confluence of reduction in insured amortization terms, higher variable and higher fixed interest rates will result in a fairly quick correction, entirely because it removes the entire moral hazard crowd from the demand side of the equation...but I also think that these factors won&#039;t coincide for another 1.5 to 2 years.  

In the meantime, I suggest that house prices will either rise slowly, or remain basically stagnant.  I base this on the past year, which the various real estate associations have been pumping ad nauseum, but which, in Calgary for instance, only moved the Avg house price by $8,000 compared to last year at the same time...which, on a 35 year mortgage, has very little effect on payments.  (and I dare anybody with a 35 year mortgage to start yelling about the interest that I&#039;d pay on that 8,000...you wouldn&#039;t have a 35 year am if you&#039;d thought about that).

In short, I&#039;m glad I waited, because nothing&#039;s changed for me from last year as a prospective buyer, except that builders are offering all sorts of incentives, which are only likely to get better as time goes on.  My rent is going down, not up, so that&#039;s nice.  Meanwhile I&#039;ve paid off scads of debt (even better than saving the difference, if you have debt to retire), and I&#039;m on track to be completely debt free (no student loans, no car loan, no credit cards, nothing) at roughly the same time as I expect the aforementioned factors to meet in a bubble-melting reaction like we saw in the U.S. in 2007-2008.

Which means I&#039;ll be buying 10 houses anyways...and renting them out...don&#039;t worry, I&#039;ll accept you if you&#039;re bankrupt...though you&#039;ll have to give me a higher security deposit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll tell you what:  I think it&#8217;s highly unlikely that the CMHC would insure longer ams (40, 45, 50 yr) at this point&#8230;but if they did, I would buy the first 10 houses I could find, because this would cause home prices to skyrocket&#8230;just like the reduction from 40 year to 35 year ams excluded buyers and contributed (in part) to the correction from Oct 08 to Spring 09.  </p>
<p>In fact, I think it&#8217;s fairly obvious that a great deal of the correction we saw earlier in the year was due in large part to the short-lived contraction in mortgage credit (i.e. lenders actually sticking to 5% 35 year for a few months.  That has since changed, and you can, once again, purchase a house with effectively zero down.)  </p>
<p>On the other hand, the best way for the CMHC to deal with the inevitable shortfall when variable and fixed rates actually start rising again next year is to start restricting the mortgages that they&#8217;ll insure, which means say goodbye to insured 35 year ams&#8230;and that all by itself will contribute to another minor correction.  I think the confluence of reduction in insured amortization terms, higher variable and higher fixed interest rates will result in a fairly quick correction, entirely because it removes the entire moral hazard crowd from the demand side of the equation&#8230;but I also think that these factors won&#8217;t coincide for another 1.5 to 2 years.  </p>
<p>In the meantime, I suggest that house prices will either rise slowly, or remain basically stagnant.  I base this on the past year, which the various real estate associations have been pumping ad nauseum, but which, in Calgary for instance, only moved the Avg house price by $8,000 compared to last year at the same time&#8230;which, on a 35 year mortgage, has very little effect on payments.  (and I dare anybody with a 35 year mortgage to start yelling about the interest that I&#8217;d pay on that 8,000&#8230;you wouldn&#8217;t have a 35 year am if you&#8217;d thought about that).</p>
<p>In short, I&#8217;m glad I waited, because nothing&#8217;s changed for me from last year as a prospective buyer, except that builders are offering all sorts of incentives, which are only likely to get better as time goes on.  My rent is going down, not up, so that&#8217;s nice.  Meanwhile I&#8217;ve paid off scads of debt (even better than saving the difference, if you have debt to retire), and I&#8217;m on track to be completely debt free (no student loans, no car loan, no credit cards, nothing) at roughly the same time as I expect the aforementioned factors to meet in a bubble-melting reaction like we saw in the U.S. in 2007-2008.</p>
<p>Which means I&#8217;ll be buying 10 houses anyways&#8230;and renting them out&#8230;don&#8217;t worry, I&#8217;ll accept you if you&#8217;re bankrupt&#8230;though you&#8217;ll have to give me a higher security deposit.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan in Victoria</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51737</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan in Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51737</guid>
		<description>Post #128 Robert, Its supply and demand for borrowed money, eg government deficit spending. Here and everywhere else in the world. Plain and simple.
Unfortunately we are all going to suffer and pay for this in the form of higher taxes and service cuts in the future. The bill eventually comes due, (hey lets kick it to the next generation!)
Also, don&#039;t forget we are on the hook for CMHC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post #128 Robert, Its supply and demand for borrowed money, eg government deficit spending. Here and everywhere else in the world. Plain and simple.<br />
Unfortunately we are all going to suffer and pay for this in the form of higher taxes and service cuts in the future. The bill eventually comes due, (hey lets kick it to the next generation!)<br />
Also, don&#8217;t forget we are on the hook for CMHC.</p>
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		<title>By: Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/11/26/soft-landing/comment-page-3/#comment-51736</link>
		<dc:creator>Nostradamus Le Mad Vlad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=4166#comment-51736</guid>
		<description>#116 JFoo -- Excellent idea! If they (govt.) want to pay me an exorbitant amount for nothing, that&#039;s fine as well!
------
What goes up (see chart) must come &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.prisonplanet.com/case-shiller-still-predicts-massive-45-fall-from-today%E2%80%99s-values.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;down.&lt;/a&gt;
------
And now . . . &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/11/26/climate-change-hack.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CBC Sucks!&lt;/a&gt; &quot;CBC ignored the original story for seven days, but when the Global Warming Hoaxers want a forum to defend themselves, CBC is right at the front of the line!&quot; (Comment from wrh.com).

Note the following sentence -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=27941&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hoax / Depopulation&lt;/a&gt; (This page contains quotes supporting depopulation and devolution of society.)

Climategate &lt;a href=&quot;http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/three-things-you-absolutely-must-know-about-climategate/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;explained.&lt;/a&gt;
------
The links I posted earlier seem to have been read by someone other than bloggers here! -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.examiner.com/x-4383-Portland-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m11d26-Politics-or-sedition-Rush-Limbaugh-calls-for-military-coup&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Coup&lt;/a&gt;
------
ClimateGate, Watergate, H1N1Gate -- the are all one and the same, designed to bankrupt us all! -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231282/Recession-worse-feared-Chancellor-predicts-steepest-slump-ever.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Funny Munny&lt;/a&gt;
------
More codder for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.politicaltheatrics.net/?p=835&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fannon&lt;/a&gt; (something like that). Comment by wrh.com.

&quot;Why would Iran do something like that?

&quot;Of course, Iran wouldn&#039;t. Iran has no desire to be invaded and conquered., but of course vested financial and political interests want war with Iran and indeed ultimately war with all Islamic countries.

&quot;Why? Well, look at &lt;b&gt;&lt;cite&gt;the Climategate scandal and its links to the push for a global government.

&quot;A global government will require a global bank.&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;/b&gt; But there are TWO different banking systems in use in the world. There is the western system of compound interest, and there is the Islamic system of repayment-plus-flat-fee.

&quot;Therefore, at some point along the path to a one-world government, the nations under the control of the private banks will have to declare war on and destroy any and all nations using the Islamic system.

&quot;... which is why we are being fed this manure about Iran hiding nuclear bombs on cargo ships to attack Europe. This is just a repackage of Phony Tony&#039;s claim that Iraq was just 45 minutes away from attacking Europe.

&quot;Fool me once ...&quot;
***
Turns out that dubya and phoney anthony had already conspired to have a &quot;regime change&quot; in Iraq a few months after dubya stole the first election. Oh well, shit happens!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#116 JFoo &#8212; Excellent idea! If they (govt.) want to pay me an exorbitant amount for nothing, that&#8217;s fine as well!<br />
&#8212;&#8212;<br />
What goes up (see chart) must come <a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/case-shiller-still-predicts-massive-45-fall-from-today%E2%80%99s-values.html" rel="nofollow">down.</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;<br />
And now . . . <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/11/26/climate-change-hack.html" rel="nofollow">CBC Sucks!</a> &#8220;CBC ignored the original story for seven days, but when the Global Warming Hoaxers want a forum to defend themselves, CBC is right at the front of the line!&#8221; (Comment from wrh.com).</p>
<p>Note the following sentence &#8212; <a href="http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=27941" rel="nofollow">Hoax / Depopulation</a> (This page contains quotes supporting depopulation and devolution of society.)</p>
<p>Climategate <a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/three-things-you-absolutely-must-know-about-climategate/" rel="nofollow">explained.</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;<br />
The links I posted earlier seem to have been read by someone other than bloggers here! &#8212; <a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-4383-Portland-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m11d26-Politics-or-sedition-Rush-Limbaugh-calls-for-military-coup" rel="nofollow">Coup</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;<br />
ClimateGate, Watergate, H1N1Gate &#8212; the are all one and the same, designed to bankrupt us all! &#8212; <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231282/Recession-worse-feared-Chancellor-predicts-steepest-slump-ever.html" rel="nofollow">Funny Munny</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;<br />
More codder for the <a href="http://www.politicaltheatrics.net/?p=835" rel="nofollow">fannon</a> (something like that). Comment by wrh.com.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why would Iran do something like that?</p>
<p>&#8220;Of course, Iran wouldn&#8217;t. Iran has no desire to be invaded and conquered., but of course vested financial and political interests want war with Iran and indeed ultimately war with all Islamic countries.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why? Well, look at <b><cite>the Climategate scandal and its links to the push for a global government.</p>
<p>&#8220;A global government will require a global bank.</cite></b> But there are TWO different banking systems in use in the world. There is the western system of compound interest, and there is the Islamic system of repayment-plus-flat-fee.</p>
<p>&#8220;Therefore, at some point along the path to a one-world government, the nations under the control of the private banks will have to declare war on and destroy any and all nations using the Islamic system.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; which is why we are being fed this manure about Iran hiding nuclear bombs on cargo ships to attack Europe. This is just a repackage of Phony Tony&#8217;s claim that Iraq was just 45 minutes away from attacking Europe.</p>
<p>&#8220;Fool me once &#8230;&#8221;<br />
***<br />
Turns out that dubya and phoney anthony had already conspired to have a &#8220;regime change&#8221; in Iraq a few months after dubya stole the first election. Oh well, shit happens!</p>
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