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	<title>Comments on: With bloated hearts</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45445</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45445</guid>
		<description>Yup. People have opened up the Canadian landscape for housing. In fact, several thousands of individuals spend 3 hours per work-day in a car--to commute from the isolated Abbotsford detached home to a job in or around Van. Opening up more of Canada would be very ill-advised. It will increase frustration and increase price for well-situated housing. Moreover, the commute will never cease through more freeways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. People have opened up the Canadian landscape for housing. In fact, several thousands of individuals spend 3 hours per work-day in a car&#8211;to commute from the isolated Abbotsford detached home to a job in or around Van. Opening up more of Canada would be very ill-advised. It will increase frustration and increase price for well-situated housing. Moreover, the commute will never cease through more freeways.</p>
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		<title>By: steven rowlandson</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45337</link>
		<dc:creator>steven rowlandson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45337</guid>
		<description>Being Canadian is a great thing. You can’t measure that in dollars.

Thank God.

Garth I think if being able to buy a house in Cantada was linked to citizenship alot of people in Cantada would have to leave because they are not paid enough to stay.  Then again if they were paid to stay or did leave the economy would likely shut down.  Time to knock the hell out of real estate prices by decree.  Lets say back to late 1960&#039;s prices which is about where wages are.

Steven</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being Canadian is a great thing. You can’t measure that in dollars.</p>
<p>Thank God.</p>
<p>Garth I think if being able to buy a house in Cantada was linked to citizenship alot of people in Cantada would have to leave because they are not paid enough to stay.  Then again if they were paid to stay or did leave the economy would likely shut down.  Time to knock the hell out of real estate prices by decree.  Lets say back to late 1960&#8217;s prices which is about where wages are.</p>
<p>Steven</p>
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		<title>By: AnonInVan</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45222</link>
		<dc:creator>AnonInVan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45222</guid>
		<description>For the record, both Sumas and Abbotsford smell like pig poop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, both Sumas and Abbotsford smell like pig poop.</p>
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		<title>By: Future Expatriate</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45197</link>
		<dc:creator>Future Expatriate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45197</guid>
		<description>#113 - If everyone like you made just one anonymous phone call with a couple of addresses, you&#039;d put a serious dent in that narco-economy.

You have no one to blame but yourself. 

OR... you can wait a bit until California legalizes pot to survive and does it for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#113 &#8211; If everyone like you made just one anonymous phone call with a couple of addresses, you&#8217;d put a serious dent in that narco-economy.</p>
<p>You have no one to blame but yourself. </p>
<p>OR&#8230; you can wait a bit until California legalizes pot to survive and does it for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. D - Ottawa</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45172</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. D - Ottawa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45172</guid>
		<description>#20, #95, The Enemy

Good posts.  Thanks for taking the time to comment and provide a fresh viewpoint.

There are other professions that make the kind of money needed to buy in this market.  My younger brother in St. Catharines makes $500K+ as a doctor (specialist) and lives in a million dollar home (nearly paid off in 5 years).  My sister is a lawyer in Toronto (runs own small firm) and makes over $200K.  My other brother is a chiropractor and earns a very good income.  All bought a home in the past five years.

Maybe this isn&#039;t the best time to buy, but most life long renters will retire poor.  I bought my first house in 2000 and it was wonderful not having a landlord raising the rent every year.  Now I have about 200K in equity and can handle a substantial drop in prices.

Good luck to those still renting.  If prices drop a lot or stay flat for a long time, I suggest buying if you have 25% down like I did (no CMHC fees).  Try to pay it off in 15 years or less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20, #95, The Enemy</p>
<p>Good posts.  Thanks for taking the time to comment and provide a fresh viewpoint.</p>
<p>There are other professions that make the kind of money needed to buy in this market.  My younger brother in St. Catharines makes $500K+ as a doctor (specialist) and lives in a million dollar home (nearly paid off in 5 years).  My sister is a lawyer in Toronto (runs own small firm) and makes over $200K.  My other brother is a chiropractor and earns a very good income.  All bought a home in the past five years.</p>
<p>Maybe this isn&#8217;t the best time to buy, but most life long renters will retire poor.  I bought my first house in 2000 and it was wonderful not having a landlord raising the rent every year.  Now I have about 200K in equity and can handle a substantial drop in prices.</p>
<p>Good luck to those still renting.  If prices drop a lot or stay flat for a long time, I suggest buying if you have 25% down like I did (no CMHC fees).  Try to pay it off in 15 years or less.</p>
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		<title>By: dave99</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45171</link>
		<dc:creator>dave99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45171</guid>
		<description>#129, point taken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#129, point taken.</p>
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		<title>By: ted</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45143</link>
		<dc:creator>ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45143</guid>
		<description>121.dave okay I forgot actuaries. CFA&#039;s not sure about that. Do know they are a dime a dozen these days. As for having a phd in math it is a feat but I wouldn&#039;t call it a profession to be a quant. Is there a society for professional quants. I don&#039;t think so. Anyways my point is the term gets thrown around a lot and means nothings. Passing your canadian securities course and selling people mutual funds doesn&#039;t count and is pretty much a step up from used car salesman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>121.dave okay I forgot actuaries. CFA&#8217;s not sure about that. Do know they are a dime a dozen these days. As for having a phd in math it is a feat but I wouldn&#8217;t call it a profession to be a quant. Is there a society for professional quants. I don&#8217;t think so. Anyways my point is the term gets thrown around a lot and means nothings. Passing your canadian securities course and selling people mutual funds doesn&#8217;t count and is pretty much a step up from used car salesman.</p>
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		<title>By: Daystar</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45141</link>
		<dc:creator>Daystar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45141</guid>
		<description>#95 The Enemy on 10.04.09 at 10:17 am 

I agree with everything you said and will miss your input (as sparky as it can sometimes be) simply because it offers a fresh perspective.  

But... I do disagree with one of your points and it has to do with your belief that since mortgages are recourse, real estate won&#039;t collapse.  If people can&#039;t make their mortgage payments, they&#039;ll still lose their homes and it doesn&#039;t matter how ugly it gets from there, whether its recourse loans in Canada or non-recourse in Alta.  Too many mortages are being lent to buyers that can&#039;t afford mortages with any kind of rate hikes.  

http://americacanada.blogspot.com/2009/07/we-live-in-borrowed-times.html

http://americacanada.blogspot.com/2009/06/despite-what-you-have-been-told-real.html

Is this all sustainable? No. Any rise in interest rates and everything will fall apart. Going forward we will eventually hit a point where we can&#039;t possibly grow credit any further, even at 0% interest. At this point the economy will be saddled with a massive debt but without new leverage entering it to support it. Without adding new leverage the economy will begin its long overdue deflationary spiral. As it sinks, the burden of the debt will grow and grow. Consumer spending will contract. Deflation will set in. The economy will shrink more, and the cycle will continuously feed itself. 

What the magic bottom will be in Canadian real estate is hard to predict but the downward spiral of deflation will begin next year as rates begin to rise and we are likely to see home valuations sink to early 2006 levels as a home valuation marker.  The U.S. is experiencing what I believe currently is a bottom and its been recognized only because of near zero fed rates there... if not for low rate policies, real estate would still be in a free fall.  

We might not be so lucky here and no... this isn&#039;t what I want.  

Oh, yeah,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#95 The Enemy on 10.04.09 at 10:17 am </p>
<p>I agree with everything you said and will miss your input (as sparky as it can sometimes be) simply because it offers a fresh perspective.  </p>
<p>But&#8230; I do disagree with one of your points and it has to do with your belief that since mortgages are recourse, real estate won&#8217;t collapse.  If people can&#8217;t make their mortgage payments, they&#8217;ll still lose their homes and it doesn&#8217;t matter how ugly it gets from there, whether its recourse loans in Canada or non-recourse in Alta.  Too many mortages are being lent to buyers that can&#8217;t afford mortages with any kind of rate hikes.  </p>
<p><a href="http://americacanada.blogspot.com/2009/07/we-live-in-borrowed-times.html" rel="nofollow">http://americacanada.blogspot.com/2009/07/we-live-in-borrowed-times.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://americacanada.blogspot.com/2009/06/despite-what-you-have-been-told-real.html" rel="nofollow">http://americacanada.blogspot.com/2009/06/despite-what-you-have-been-told-real.html</a></p>
<p>Is this all sustainable? No. Any rise in interest rates and everything will fall apart. Going forward we will eventually hit a point where we can&#8217;t possibly grow credit any further, even at 0% interest. At this point the economy will be saddled with a massive debt but without new leverage entering it to support it. Without adding new leverage the economy will begin its long overdue deflationary spiral. As it sinks, the burden of the debt will grow and grow. Consumer spending will contract. Deflation will set in. The economy will shrink more, and the cycle will continuously feed itself. </p>
<p>What the magic bottom will be in Canadian real estate is hard to predict but the downward spiral of deflation will begin next year as rates begin to rise and we are likely to see home valuations sink to early 2006 levels as a home valuation marker.  The U.S. is experiencing what I believe currently is a bottom and its been recognized only because of near zero fed rates there&#8230; if not for low rate policies, real estate would still be in a free fall.  </p>
<p>We might not be so lucky here and no&#8230; this isn&#8217;t what I want.  </p>
<p>Oh, yeah,</p>
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		<title>By: dd</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45128</link>
		<dc:creator>dd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 01:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45128</guid>
		<description>.#123 

&quot;PS the greater fool in Chindia theory doesn’t count&quot;

You don&#039;t say anything about supply ... only demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.#123 </p>
<p>&#8220;PS the greater fool in Chindia theory doesn’t count&#8221;</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t say anything about supply &#8230; only demand.</p>
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		<title>By: dd</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/10/02/with-bloated-hearts/comment-page-3/#comment-45127</link>
		<dc:creator>dd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 01:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=3640#comment-45127</guid>
		<description>#123 robert 

...Commodities began peaking in 2007, culminating last year with price and buying exhaustion levels...With very few exceptions all have suffered enormous percentage declines...

Yes the world is awash in commodites short term.  But long term (more that one year) it is a great investment.  Supply is still very low and mines will not open because of costs.  Couple this with the sell off of the US dollar and money printing ... countries will inventory hard assets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#123 robert </p>
<p>&#8230;Commodities began peaking in 2007, culminating last year with price and buying exhaustion levels&#8230;With very few exceptions all have suffered enormous percentage declines&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes the world is awash in commodites short term.  But long term (more that one year) it is a great investment.  Supply is still very low and mines will not open because of costs.  Couple this with the sell off of the US dollar and money printing &#8230; countries will inventory hard assets.</p>
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