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	<title>Comments on: Busted</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: Petes chance</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-44730</link>
		<dc:creator>Petes chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-44730</guid>
		<description>I was really having a good day being unemployed (after 27 years in the same place)and unable to find work. I hated my job, treated us like crap but the pay was good. Well now the Mexican workers have my job. 

Optimistic and looking forward to a great future with a new outlook and perspective on life.

I still smile everday, enjoy what I have, dream a lot, and try hard to work on what I can.

Try to avoid negativity in everything I do, need to, have to surround myself with optimistic people.

So, imagine my dismay finding you all!

I have read this blog and felt worse about the economy and my future that I have in the past several months.

I still believe the future is what you make it. If you are right about the next great depression..oh well we better start planning now...guess I get a head start.

Government spending and monetary policies throughout the world as well as the baby boomer demographic will have a definitive impact.

In regards to this and a comment before, dropped financial advisers a long time ago. Found it funny how they can loose my money and still get very well paid. &quot;Oh, well lets  put your money in this! Seen him driving away in his Mercedes after...hmmm!
THEY DON&quot;T KNOW!

Oh, I did much better than they did and still do!

In regards to the housing, these are Canadian stats. Some areas are building others are not. Fundamentals in certain regions need the housing starts such as in areas of Alberta and Saskatchewan.  People still need places to live and demand fuels supply. 


So whats next. Cottages sound like they are out or are they? What does this demographic of retires want out of their final years? Assuming of course they planned for retirement!

Smaller homes, small or affordable cottages, travel, recreation, golf, warm winters, see the world while preserving capital for many years to continue doing what they enjoy. 

No matter how you cut it this group has enjoyed a privileged life. They are not ready to give it up heading into the final years. They are planning!

As am I. This is the only time I am reading this blog. I just had to comment. Garth, great blog and information in here but WOW! 

Do you have one on the positive aspects of the economy? Might like to join in there!

Everyone, yup you are right. The economy is changing and comes a time to think out of the box and this may be it.

Quick question maybe someone can answer!

How many people became millionaires in the past year?

How many will this year?

And how many in the next two? 

Not saying I have a chance at this, but out there someone is figuring out a way to do it!

Outside the box!!!!!

Have fun everyone....CYA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was really having a good day being unemployed (after 27 years in the same place)and unable to find work. I hated my job, treated us like crap but the pay was good. Well now the Mexican workers have my job. </p>
<p>Optimistic and looking forward to a great future with a new outlook and perspective on life.</p>
<p>I still smile everday, enjoy what I have, dream a lot, and try hard to work on what I can.</p>
<p>Try to avoid negativity in everything I do, need to, have to surround myself with optimistic people.</p>
<p>So, imagine my dismay finding you all!</p>
<p>I have read this blog and felt worse about the economy and my future that I have in the past several months.</p>
<p>I still believe the future is what you make it. If you are right about the next great depression..oh well we better start planning now&#8230;guess I get a head start.</p>
<p>Government spending and monetary policies throughout the world as well as the baby boomer demographic will have a definitive impact.</p>
<p>In regards to this and a comment before, dropped financial advisers a long time ago. Found it funny how they can loose my money and still get very well paid. &#8220;Oh, well lets  put your money in this! Seen him driving away in his Mercedes after&#8230;hmmm!<br />
THEY DON&#8221;T KNOW!</p>
<p>Oh, I did much better than they did and still do!</p>
<p>In regards to the housing, these are Canadian stats. Some areas are building others are not. Fundamentals in certain regions need the housing starts such as in areas of Alberta and Saskatchewan.  People still need places to live and demand fuels supply. </p>
<p>So whats next. Cottages sound like they are out or are they? What does this demographic of retires want out of their final years? Assuming of course they planned for retirement!</p>
<p>Smaller homes, small or affordable cottages, travel, recreation, golf, warm winters, see the world while preserving capital for many years to continue doing what they enjoy. </p>
<p>No matter how you cut it this group has enjoyed a privileged life. They are not ready to give it up heading into the final years. They are planning!</p>
<p>As am I. This is the only time I am reading this blog. I just had to comment. Garth, great blog and information in here but WOW! </p>
<p>Do you have one on the positive aspects of the economy? Might like to join in there!</p>
<p>Everyone, yup you are right. The economy is changing and comes a time to think out of the box and this may be it.</p>
<p>Quick question maybe someone can answer!</p>
<p>How many people became millionaires in the past year?</p>
<p>How many will this year?</p>
<p>And how many in the next two? </p>
<p>Not saying I have a chance at this, but out there someone is figuring out a way to do it!</p>
<p>Outside the box!!!!!</p>
<p>Have fun everyone&#8230;.CYA</p>
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		<title>By: Bottoms_Up</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35248</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottoms_Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35248</guid>
		<description>4 years undergrad
7 years PhD
0 debt - priceless
0 equity - shitty</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4 years undergrad<br />
7 years PhD<br />
0 debt &#8211; priceless<br />
0 equity &#8211; shitty</p>
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		<title>By: taxpayer like you</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35233</link>
		<dc:creator>taxpayer like you</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35233</guid>
		<description>I shoulda stayed in school longer and learned to spell

not we&#039;re.......WERE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shoulda stayed in school longer and learned to spell</p>
<p>not we&#8217;re&#8230;&#8230;.WERE</p>
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		<title>By: taxpayer like you</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35224</link>
		<dc:creator>taxpayer like you</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35224</guid>
		<description>Re 134 Bottoms:

11 years post sec?? What we&#039;re you thinking? What we&#039;re you studying?

It sounds like you fell victim to the &quot;post secondary education industrial complex&quot;. Now I&#039;ve got 6 years post sec myself, the first two in tech school, then a return a few years later to obtain engineering degree. I&#039;ll probably 
never know whether it has really paid off financially or not, but in both cases, the skills learned were marketable, with the degree allowing me quicker and further advancement and more career options. Like Michael jordan, I couldnt accept not trying.

Young people are continually pumped to get an education, but I think in too many cases, a poor choice is made for the sake of the degree. Now if its what you 
truly love and want to do with your life that&#039;s great, you&#039;ll find related work somehow. But I know bartenders with BAs, labourers with BScs, computer techs with philosophy degrees etc. IMO it looks like a big waste of time and resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re 134 Bottoms:</p>
<p>11 years post sec?? What we&#8217;re you thinking? What we&#8217;re you studying?</p>
<p>It sounds like you fell victim to the &#8220;post secondary education industrial complex&#8221;. Now I&#8217;ve got 6 years post sec myself, the first two in tech school, then a return a few years later to obtain engineering degree. I&#8217;ll probably<br />
never know whether it has really paid off financially or not, but in both cases, the skills learned were marketable, with the degree allowing me quicker and further advancement and more career options. Like Michael jordan, I couldnt accept not trying.</p>
<p>Young people are continually pumped to get an education, but I think in too many cases, a poor choice is made for the sake of the degree. Now if its what you<br />
truly love and want to do with your life that&#8217;s great, you&#8217;ll find related work somehow. But I know bartenders with BAs, labourers with BScs, computer techs with philosophy degrees etc. IMO it looks like a big waste of time and resources.</p>
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		<title>By: Bottoms_Up</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35219</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottoms_Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35219</guid>
		<description>.#116 Prairie gal on 07.10.09 at 8:41 pm
---------------------------------------------
You&#039;re not alone. 11 years of university education here (that&#039;s ~$55,000 gone to tuition, plus time not earning a substantial wage or getting promoted), similar job, no real estate, no savings. It feels pretty dismal, especially when many got ahead in the housing boom. But the saving grace for us is that we have not swallowed the kool-aid, and I am told our education will pay off in later years. Hang in there, you&#039;re actually lucky to be able to live at home and hammer down that debt (and have a decent paying job in a relatively cheap city).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.#116 Prairie gal on 07.10.09 at 8:41 pm<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
You&#8217;re not alone. 11 years of university education here (that&#8217;s ~$55,000 gone to tuition, plus time not earning a substantial wage or getting promoted), similar job, no real estate, no savings. It feels pretty dismal, especially when many got ahead in the housing boom. But the saving grace for us is that we have not swallowed the kool-aid, and I am told our education will pay off in later years. Hang in there, you&#8217;re actually lucky to be able to live at home and hammer down that debt (and have a decent paying job in a relatively cheap city).</p>
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		<title>By: Job</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35218</link>
		<dc:creator>Job</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35218</guid>
		<description>123 Cara on 07.10.09 at 11:36 pm
-------------------------------------------
Tithing? The biggest scam going. My buddy is the accountant for a church--it&#039;s business as usual! Preachers are some of the best sales people out there (they would make great university lecturers or infomercial hosts), and I don&#039;t believe indirectly making you feel bad for not giving your hard earned $$ to the church is ethical. 10% of your paycheque could set you up nicely in retirement (or buy you a brand new car every few years). You don&#039;t need to give money to a church to be a kind, giving, caring and contributing human being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>123 Cara on 07.10.09 at 11:36 pm<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Tithing? The biggest scam going. My buddy is the accountant for a church&#8211;it&#8217;s business as usual! Preachers are some of the best sales people out there (they would make great university lecturers or infomercial hosts), and I don&#8217;t believe indirectly making you feel bad for not giving your hard earned $$ to the church is ethical. 10% of your paycheque could set you up nicely in retirement (or buy you a brand new car every few years). You don&#8217;t need to give money to a church to be a kind, giving, caring and contributing human being.</p>
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		<title>By: Bottoms_Up</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35217</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottoms_Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35217</guid>
		<description>.#129 Chris no longer in England on 07.11.09 at 1:30 pm
-----------------------------------------------------
Well Chris we&#039;re happy to have you in Canada. A good UK friend of mine has recently taught me some English speak such as &#039;dosh&#039; and &#039;swot up&#039;. Don&#039;t use these terms here though, because I think most Canadians don&#039;t know them.

As to where to park your dosh for some modest growth--I&#039;ve swotted up and now suggest checking out various companies preferred shares. They typically pay a decent dividend, and there is a &#039;guarantee&#039; that on the date of maturity you&#039;ll get a certain share price (the company buys the shares back off you on a certain date for a set price). Preferred shares can bounce around in price because they&#039;re not as heavily traded. And there&#039;s also the risk if the company goes bankrupt you&#039;ll lose some money.

Good luck!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.#129 Chris no longer in England on 07.11.09 at 1:30 pm<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Well Chris we&#8217;re happy to have you in Canada. A good UK friend of mine has recently taught me some English speak such as &#8216;dosh&#8217; and &#8217;swot up&#8217;. Don&#8217;t use these terms here though, because I think most Canadians don&#8217;t know them.</p>
<p>As to where to park your dosh for some modest growth&#8211;I&#8217;ve swotted up and now suggest checking out various companies preferred shares. They typically pay a decent dividend, and there is a &#8216;guarantee&#8217; that on the date of maturity you&#8217;ll get a certain share price (the company buys the shares back off you on a certain date for a set price). Preferred shares can bounce around in price because they&#8217;re not as heavily traded. And there&#8217;s also the risk if the company goes bankrupt you&#8217;ll lose some money.</p>
<p>Good luck!!</p>
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		<title>By: Bottoms_Up</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35216</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottoms_Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35216</guid>
		<description>.#130 Dave on 07.12.09 at 12:20 am
-----------------------------------------
Dave I hate to break it to you but you&#039;re not funding a company when you buy a stock--your money is going into the pocket of the person selling the stock. (the company raises cash at it&#039;s inital share offering, after that the stock just changes hands between investors).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.#130 Dave on 07.12.09 at 12:20 am<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Dave I hate to break it to you but you&#8217;re not funding a company when you buy a stock&#8211;your money is going into the pocket of the person selling the stock. (the company raises cash at it&#8217;s inital share offering, after that the stock just changes hands between investors).</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35212</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35212</guid>
		<description>Here is my rant: our entire North American society is due for a harsh re-adjustment. We have forgotten that it was innovation and hard work that got us our wealth, and have replaced those things with this idea that we can gain wealth from nothing (housing &amp; stocks)

----------------------------------------------

you&#039;re right on most of the above.  Gaining wealth from trading houses cannot last - we&#039;re seeing the result of that.  You&#039;re definitely wrong when it comes to gaining wealth with stocks as it is totally possible and totally sensible.  The stocks I own I feel like I&#039;m funding good business with money so that they can expand.  I&#039;m into a lot of energies.  I feel there&#039;s a problem with baseload energy.  The money I invest is helping what I believe has to happen in our society.   How isn&#039;t this productive?  I&quot;m funding these industries and companies so that my family and I can have clean and cheap energy.

how is this a bad idea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is my rant: our entire North American society is due for a harsh re-adjustment. We have forgotten that it was innovation and hard work that got us our wealth, and have replaced those things with this idea that we can gain wealth from nothing (housing &amp; stocks)</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>you&#8217;re right on most of the above.  Gaining wealth from trading houses cannot last &#8211; we&#8217;re seeing the result of that.  You&#8217;re definitely wrong when it comes to gaining wealth with stocks as it is totally possible and totally sensible.  The stocks I own I feel like I&#8217;m funding good business with money so that they can expand.  I&#8217;m into a lot of energies.  I feel there&#8217;s a problem with baseload energy.  The money I invest is helping what I believe has to happen in our society.   How isn&#8217;t this productive?  I&#8221;m funding these industries and companies so that my family and I can have clean and cheap energy.</p>
<p>how is this a bad idea?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris no longer in England</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/07/09/busted/comment-page-3/#comment-35188</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris no longer in England</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=2887#comment-35188</guid>
		<description>Barb #74: &quot;Chris, as I recall, you said you’re along the corridor. I’m so glad you’re waiting before buying. That’s my old territory so my husband and I have kept an eye on that area and discuss it with with relatives and friends regularly over the years.. prices, (as you say and very well know), will drop.

And run as fast as possible away from that ‘advisor’ 
(Nice of him to push his friend’s property at you, eh?! lol).&quot;

====================

Cheers Barb. I have found myself in an ideal situation, but more by accident than design. We are new to the country, so need to find our feet and make sure we are living in the right area before we make it permanent and buy where we are currently renting; we have the sale proceeds from our house in England but there will be at least as much again from another property (hopefully now sold, we are awaiting confirmation). So at the moment half our money is in the bank and the other half is tied up in RE. To all intents and purposes we are &quot;unemployed&quot;, though my husband has a writing job he brought with him from England (full time work for him will not start probably for another month) so at the moment we are pretty much living on what we called &quot;spare money&quot; put away while we were still working in the UK.

None of the above makes me feel this is the ideal time for us to buy property, so while others on this blog agonise about why shouldn&#039;t they buy something now, I am quite content not to - until we know exactly how much we do have, how much it costs to live, what income is eventually coming in, do we like it enough here &quot;in the corridor&quot; (ha! sounds like a punishment from my school days..) to stay and settle?

We are not far from Trenton and PEC, so I was interested to read comments the other day from a couple of people who had driven through Picton and counted up the For Sale signs. I also noted those, as well as others closer by, but having nothing to compare it to (i.e. how many were there last year, or the year before?) I didn&#039;t take that much notice. Now it has got me wondering just why so many people want to move.

I am guessing that it must be hard to earn a living out here if you are not a farmer or involved with the military or the tourist industry in some way. Not everyone has the luxury of working from home, and like my son&#039;s school friend&#039;s father (who wants to go back to the city) there might be many plans to migrate back to Toronto hidden behind those For Sale signs.

In any case, whatever their individual reasons, the mere fact there are so many properties for sale around here makes me think prices can only go down. The school friend&#039;s house has been listed for a while but although they have had viewings, nobody wants to buy. Maybe potential buyers are trying to look at all the other houses too - that would certainly take up a lot of time!

As for the financial adviser, I was picking his brains about what we might do with a few hundred thousand while we wait. Being cautious where money is concerned (i.e. I don&#039;t want to go back to work and have to earn some more) I am interested in parking it in various places to grow, modestly if need be, rather than taking any chances on higher risk options.

So ... everyone feel free to comment (I know you will)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barb #74: &#8220;Chris, as I recall, you said you’re along the corridor. I’m so glad you’re waiting before buying. That’s my old territory so my husband and I have kept an eye on that area and discuss it with with relatives and friends regularly over the years.. prices, (as you say and very well know), will drop.</p>
<p>And run as fast as possible away from that ‘advisor’<br />
(Nice of him to push his friend’s property at you, eh?! lol).&#8221;</p>
<p>====================</p>
<p>Cheers Barb. I have found myself in an ideal situation, but more by accident than design. We are new to the country, so need to find our feet and make sure we are living in the right area before we make it permanent and buy where we are currently renting; we have the sale proceeds from our house in England but there will be at least as much again from another property (hopefully now sold, we are awaiting confirmation). So at the moment half our money is in the bank and the other half is tied up in RE. To all intents and purposes we are &#8220;unemployed&#8221;, though my husband has a writing job he brought with him from England (full time work for him will not start probably for another month) so at the moment we are pretty much living on what we called &#8220;spare money&#8221; put away while we were still working in the UK.</p>
<p>None of the above makes me feel this is the ideal time for us to buy property, so while others on this blog agonise about why shouldn&#8217;t they buy something now, I am quite content not to &#8211; until we know exactly how much we do have, how much it costs to live, what income is eventually coming in, do we like it enough here &#8220;in the corridor&#8221; (ha! sounds like a punishment from my school days..) to stay and settle?</p>
<p>We are not far from Trenton and PEC, so I was interested to read comments the other day from a couple of people who had driven through Picton and counted up the For Sale signs. I also noted those, as well as others closer by, but having nothing to compare it to (i.e. how many were there last year, or the year before?) I didn&#8217;t take that much notice. Now it has got me wondering just why so many people want to move.</p>
<p>I am guessing that it must be hard to earn a living out here if you are not a farmer or involved with the military or the tourist industry in some way. Not everyone has the luxury of working from home, and like my son&#8217;s school friend&#8217;s father (who wants to go back to the city) there might be many plans to migrate back to Toronto hidden behind those For Sale signs.</p>
<p>In any case, whatever their individual reasons, the mere fact there are so many properties for sale around here makes me think prices can only go down. The school friend&#8217;s house has been listed for a while but although they have had viewings, nobody wants to buy. Maybe potential buyers are trying to look at all the other houses too &#8211; that would certainly take up a lot of time!</p>
<p>As for the financial adviser, I was picking his brains about what we might do with a few hundred thousand while we wait. Being cautious where money is concerned (i.e. I don&#8217;t want to go back to work and have to earn some more) I am interested in parking it in various places to grow, modestly if need be, rather than taking any chances on higher risk options.</p>
<p>So &#8230; everyone feel free to comment (I know you will)!</p>
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