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	<title>Comments on: The new normal</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: linda</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-17145</link>
		<dc:creator>linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-17145</guid>
		<description>Bill, I liked your  ideas on different types of shelter and living arrangements.  A man in my county-David Masters- is &#039;living off the grid in a &#039;yurt&#039;.  A timber-framed, canvas-covered dome. He teaches it also through The Luna Project, at lunaticadventures.ca.  I just read an excellent article about him then read your comments. Top of the day to ya!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I liked your  ideas on different types of shelter and living arrangements.  A man in my county-David Masters- is &#8216;living off the grid in a &#8216;yurt&#8217;.  A timber-framed, canvas-covered dome. He teaches it also through The Luna Project, at lunaticadventures.ca.  I just read an excellent article about him then read your comments. Top of the day to ya!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill-Muskoka (N.A.M.)</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-17010</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill-Muskoka (N.A.M.)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-17010</guid>
		<description>So, while Obama admits &#039;I screwed up&#039; (A phrase that would result in death for Bush or Harper, Dim Jim, or most MP&#039;s, if they even tried to get it out), we find that Steve has gotten coverage for a photo-op he will undoubtedly despise &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/shows/showdetails.aspx?sid=3351&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Iceland elects Gay PM...How many can the world take?&lt;/a&gt;

Well, according to the Colbert report we have Numero Duece.  LMAO!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, while Obama admits &#8216;I screwed up&#8217; (A phrase that would result in death for Bush or Harper, Dim Jim, or most MP&#8217;s, if they even tried to get it out), we find that Steve has gotten coverage for a photo-op he will undoubtedly despise <a href="http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/shows/showdetails.aspx?sid=3351" rel="nofollow">Iceland elects Gay PM&#8230;How many can the world take?</a></p>
<p>Well, according to the Colbert report we have Numero Duece.  LMAO!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16992</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16992</guid>
		<description>Dear Garth, are there no sensible real estate buys out there right now? A friend of mine is involved in a residential development project in Victoria right now, building 700 - 800 sq/ft &#039;no frills&#039; one and two bedroom condos (ie no balcony, no elevator etc etc) with a targeted price at the bottom of the range (~$160K). In todays and yesterdays day and age of ridiculously priced shoe box condos, this doesn&#039;t these don&#039;t sound too bad. Could this be a good real estate investment in today&#039;s bear market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Garth, are there no sensible real estate buys out there right now? A friend of mine is involved in a residential development project in Victoria right now, building 700 &#8211; 800 sq/ft &#8216;no frills&#8217; one and two bedroom condos (ie no balcony, no elevator etc etc) with a targeted price at the bottom of the range (~$160K). In todays and yesterdays day and age of ridiculously priced shoe box condos, this doesn&#8217;t these don&#8217;t sound too bad. Could this be a good real estate investment in today&#8217;s bear market?</p>
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		<title>By: East of Eden</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16915</link>
		<dc:creator>East of Eden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16915</guid>
		<description>HK Kid - wow, that&#039;s an obscene increase in the price. I remember being shocked last summer when I visited a friend&#039;s church in Westboro. There were some new townhomes going up (ruining the look of the area, BTW) and the price started at 400k for an 18-foot wide home. I was stunned. That ugly tower that went up a couple of years ago - overlooks the triansitway - started around a half-million for one of the lower floor condos. It is nothing but robbery if a home costs 50k to build but the builder can get away with 200k and gets it. I wish there were caps on the mark-up. I purchased my own townhome when it was a hole in the ground. The price of my model increased by over 100 per week - as the home neared completion, the market value increased. I have an end unit and I paid 148k for it in 1999. One of my neighbours bought an inside unit for almost 200k because he bought it at the end of May. It&#039;s nothing short of highway robbery. MPAC now values my home at 259k which is a total crock. I love my home but it&#039;s not worth that much in reality.

Nonplused - you&#039;re most likely correct. I find it very odd that Minto seems to have left the building, so to speak. At one time, that&#039;s all you saw - Minto homes going up all over the place (mine is a Minto). Kanata used to be Tamarack, Minto and one other name which escapes me. Now, it&#039;s all Mattamy everywhere. And they have no shortage of buyers. My friends&#039; younger daughter and son in-law just moved into that new area in Barr Haven - Bridgestone - into a half-million &quot;starter bungalow&quot;. They&#039;re both under 25 but he can afford the home easily. A starter bungalow at a half-million dollars!!!!!

My own mother is sitting on a half-million dollars in real estate - her 1,300 square foot bungalow in Burlington is worth that - and we&#039;re in a recession????? This is total insanity and it appears to me that the market is being manipulated. Believe it or not, realtors come to her and her neighbours&#039; doors almost monthly asking them if they&#039;d like to put their homes up for sale because they have waiting lists of buyers. The market has gone insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HK Kid &#8211; wow, that&#8217;s an obscene increase in the price. I remember being shocked last summer when I visited a friend&#8217;s church in Westboro. There were some new townhomes going up (ruining the look of the area, BTW) and the price started at 400k for an 18-foot wide home. I was stunned. That ugly tower that went up a couple of years ago &#8211; overlooks the triansitway &#8211; started around a half-million for one of the lower floor condos. It is nothing but robbery if a home costs 50k to build but the builder can get away with 200k and gets it. I wish there were caps on the mark-up. I purchased my own townhome when it was a hole in the ground. The price of my model increased by over 100 per week &#8211; as the home neared completion, the market value increased. I have an end unit and I paid 148k for it in 1999. One of my neighbours bought an inside unit for almost 200k because he bought it at the end of May. It&#8217;s nothing short of highway robbery. MPAC now values my home at 259k which is a total crock. I love my home but it&#8217;s not worth that much in reality.</p>
<p>Nonplused &#8211; you&#8217;re most likely correct. I find it very odd that Minto seems to have left the building, so to speak. At one time, that&#8217;s all you saw &#8211; Minto homes going up all over the place (mine is a Minto). Kanata used to be Tamarack, Minto and one other name which escapes me. Now, it&#8217;s all Mattamy everywhere. And they have no shortage of buyers. My friends&#8217; younger daughter and son in-law just moved into that new area in Barr Haven &#8211; Bridgestone &#8211; into a half-million &#8220;starter bungalow&#8221;. They&#8217;re both under 25 but he can afford the home easily. A starter bungalow at a half-million dollars!!!!!</p>
<p>My own mother is sitting on a half-million dollars in real estate &#8211; her 1,300 square foot bungalow in Burlington is worth that &#8211; and we&#8217;re in a recession????? This is total insanity and it appears to me that the market is being manipulated. Believe it or not, realtors come to her and her neighbours&#8217; doors almost monthly asking them if they&#8217;d like to put their homes up for sale because they have waiting lists of buyers. The market has gone insane.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris in England</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16885</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris in England</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16885</guid>
		<description>Carole AB, horses being turned out into the hills could always be re-collected in better times, though perhaps not always by their original owners! Those living in rural areas in Ireland could take Garth&#039;s advice, and large proportion of those in cities could always return to the country where they have relatives. Ireland&#039;s population is pretty small and there is plenty of unused space. Pity us poor idiots in England though - we are all full up with nowhere to turn.

My house is for sale at $70,000 less than it was valued at a few months ago, and because we have lived here for 15 years and will more than double what we paid for it, we can drop by another $30,000 in negotiations. I aim to be out of here by spring and moving to Ontario - something that has been in the pipeline for 5 years now.

Garth, having almost finished your book, and read the advice about hiding safes or even cementing them into the basement, what advice would you give for those of us renting property and waiting to buy? I can hardly cement a safe into someone else&#039;s basement! Ditto a similar question about generators. How portable would a generator for a decent-sized country property be, and could it be taken up and moved when we eventually buy a place of our own?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carole AB, horses being turned out into the hills could always be re-collected in better times, though perhaps not always by their original owners! Those living in rural areas in Ireland could take Garth&#8217;s advice, and large proportion of those in cities could always return to the country where they have relatives. Ireland&#8217;s population is pretty small and there is plenty of unused space. Pity us poor idiots in England though &#8211; we are all full up with nowhere to turn.</p>
<p>My house is for sale at $70,000 less than it was valued at a few months ago, and because we have lived here for 15 years and will more than double what we paid for it, we can drop by another $30,000 in negotiations. I aim to be out of here by spring and moving to Ontario &#8211; something that has been in the pipeline for 5 years now.</p>
<p>Garth, having almost finished your book, and read the advice about hiding safes or even cementing them into the basement, what advice would you give for those of us renting property and waiting to buy? I can hardly cement a safe into someone else&#8217;s basement! Ditto a similar question about generators. How portable would a generator for a decent-sized country property be, and could it be taken up and moved when we eventually buy a place of our own?</p>
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		<title>By: Da HK Kid</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16880</link>
		<dc:creator>Da HK Kid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16880</guid>
		<description>Ottawa should go 25% easy!  Refuge in the Government is an option but the housing bubble nationwide is mandatory!  Remember this crisis has already wiped out 40% of the worlds wealth! 

Prediction - $500K West End Home listed today will sell for $450K today if bank will approve.  Mid 2009, same house $405, end of 2009 $365K.  $350K Q1 10 and 5% more to bottom feeders through 2010.

Recovery very slow for 3-5years.  Flat year 1-2.

Just my opinion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ottawa should go 25% easy!  Refuge in the Government is an option but the housing bubble nationwide is mandatory!  Remember this crisis has already wiped out 40% of the worlds wealth! </p>
<p>Prediction &#8211; $500K West End Home listed today will sell for $450K today if bank will approve.  Mid 2009, same house $405, end of 2009 $365K.  $350K Q1 10 and 5% more to bottom feeders through 2010.</p>
<p>Recovery very slow for 3-5years.  Flat year 1-2.</p>
<p>Just my opinion!</p>
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		<title>By: kc</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16876</link>
		<dc:creator>kc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16876</guid>
		<description>87 carole....  not trying to be gross here but,  horse meat is actually very tasty delicacy. post to them to look into talking to deli owners.  Tough times = tough measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>87 carole&#8230;.  not trying to be gross here but,  horse meat is actually very tasty delicacy. post to them to look into talking to deli owners.  Tough times = tough measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Carole AB</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16866</link>
		<dc:creator>Carole AB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16866</guid>
		<description>Chris in England

My husband corrected me, his brother in laws brother? has not yet sent his 30 horses to slaughter he says he would let them go in the hills first.   I don&#039;t know if that makes me feel any better?  My husband says if things get really bad here in Alberta we could always live off the land there.  My sister has also joked that we could live off of the farmland they have here in AB...the same farm where in the Depression her Mother- in -law&#039;s father took 6 pigs to market and got a box of apples. This is sounding too much like Ireland today with the horses...Yikes.  I think I want to go back to sticking my head in the sand for a while....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris in England</p>
<p>My husband corrected me, his brother in laws brother? has not yet sent his 30 horses to slaughter he says he would let them go in the hills first.   I don&#8217;t know if that makes me feel any better?  My husband says if things get really bad here in Alberta we could always live off the land there.  My sister has also joked that we could live off of the farmland they have here in AB&#8230;the same farm where in the Depression her Mother- in -law&#8217;s father took 6 pigs to market and got a box of apples. This is sounding too much like Ireland today with the horses&#8230;Yikes.  I think I want to go back to sticking my head in the sand for a while&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: nonplused</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16865</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16865</guid>
		<description>#68 VictoriaB&amp;B

You are hearing this first right here:  Vancouver and BC will be what they have always been:  The pot production capital of North America.  Don&#039;t see any reason why that would change unless the industry becomes mainstream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#68 VictoriaB&amp;B</p>
<p>You are hearing this first right here:  Vancouver and BC will be what they have always been:  The pot production capital of North America.  Don&#8217;t see any reason why that would change unless the industry becomes mainstream.</p>
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		<title>By: nonplused</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/02/01/1545/comment-page-2/#comment-16864</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1545#comment-16864</guid>
		<description>#54 East of Eden

Probably what is happening to Mattamy is the same thing as we are seeing here out west.  The price of used homes is still so high that their profit margins are only reduced, not eliminated.  They will continue to build until it is unprofitable, and that can only mean they bring the entire market down to their marginal cost of production.  But since there are so many used homeowners waiting for better prices, when Mattamy finally throws in the towel there will be a huge unsold inventory in the hands of speculators that think they know better than the pros.

You can’t beat the builders folks.  They have the numbers and the experience.  They are using this “sellers strike” to get as much inventory as they can off the books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#54 East of Eden</p>
<p>Probably what is happening to Mattamy is the same thing as we are seeing here out west.  The price of used homes is still so high that their profit margins are only reduced, not eliminated.  They will continue to build until it is unprofitable, and that can only mean they bring the entire market down to their marginal cost of production.  But since there are so many used homeowners waiting for better prices, when Mattamy finally throws in the towel there will be a huge unsold inventory in the hands of speculators that think they know better than the pros.</p>
<p>You can’t beat the builders folks.  They have the numbers and the experience.  They are using this “sellers strike” to get as much inventory as they can off the books.</p>
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