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	<title>Comments on: Victoria bust</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: canadianoil</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16982</link>
		<dc:creator>canadianoil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16982</guid>
		<description>#132
You are correct.
Victoria with children is a great place to be.
I sold Toronto and bought Oak bay, five years ago.
My goodness I feel blessed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#132<br />
You are correct.<br />
Victoria with children is a great place to be.<br />
I sold Toronto and bought Oak bay, five years ago.<br />
My goodness I feel blessed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwane</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16935</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16935</guid>
		<description>Victoria is a great place. It is quite quiet for a small city. Having bought here in 2002 before the price increase tat seem my value go up 286K(2002) to 615K (2007). I believe the Bank of Canada&#039;s inflation index would put my 286 to about 325K todays dollars. So whether the price is 2 million or 400,000 it is irrelevant to those that live here. We&#039;ve always had a next to nothing interest rate so thats a bit of a non-issue. Although prices will likely fall much further (now average price is about 545k) to the high 300&#039;s or low 400&#039;s its all about the quality of life you want. Although health care is a realistic issue for seniors. If your healthy move up island its cheaper and perhaps a better life style.
FYI I used municipal tax rates for (2007)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victoria is a great place. It is quite quiet for a small city. Having bought here in 2002 before the price increase tat seem my value go up 286K(2002) to 615K (2007). I believe the Bank of Canada&#8217;s inflation index would put my 286 to about 325K todays dollars. So whether the price is 2 million or 400,000 it is irrelevant to those that live here. We&#8217;ve always had a next to nothing interest rate so thats a bit of a non-issue. Although prices will likely fall much further (now average price is about 545k) to the high 300&#8217;s or low 400&#8217;s its all about the quality of life you want. Although health care is a realistic issue for seniors. If your healthy move up island its cheaper and perhaps a better life style.<br />
FYI I used municipal tax rates for (2007)</p>
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		<title>By: VicREBear</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16806</link>
		<dc:creator>VicREBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16806</guid>
		<description>Here are Victoria&#039;s year-over-year sales and price stats, courtesy of Roger, a regular poster and numbers analyst at HouseHuntVictoria:

GV - Greater Victoria
January 2008 shown in ()

MLS Sales - 247 (464) - Down 47%
MLS listings - 3678 (3027) - Up 22%

GV SFH Average - 526.1K (606.4K) - Down 13%
GV SFH Median - 475K (530.2K) - Down 10%
GV SFH Sales - 138 (228) - Down 39%

GV Condo Average - 259.7K (349K) - Down 26%
GV Condo Median - 255K (304.5K) - Down 16%
GV Condo Sales - 62 (125) - Down 50%

GV Town Average - 394K (423.3K) - Down 7%
GV Town Median - 382.5K (393K) - Down 3%
GV Town Sales - 32 (41) Down 22%

13 percent loss on average SFH; 26 percent slide for condos... where&#039;s that Victoria realtor who two years ago said to me, &quot;Well, you&#039;d better buy whatever you can afford, &#039;cause prices AREN&#039;T COMING DOWN!&quot;

Jackass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are Victoria&#8217;s year-over-year sales and price stats, courtesy of Roger, a regular poster and numbers analyst at HouseHuntVictoria:</p>
<p>GV &#8211; Greater Victoria<br />
January 2008 shown in ()</p>
<p>MLS Sales &#8211; 247 (464) &#8211; Down 47%<br />
MLS listings &#8211; 3678 (3027) &#8211; Up 22%</p>
<p>GV SFH Average &#8211; 526.1K (606.4K) &#8211; Down 13%<br />
GV SFH Median &#8211; 475K (530.2K) &#8211; Down 10%<br />
GV SFH Sales &#8211; 138 (228) &#8211; Down 39%</p>
<p>GV Condo Average &#8211; 259.7K (349K) &#8211; Down 26%<br />
GV Condo Median &#8211; 255K (304.5K) &#8211; Down 16%<br />
GV Condo Sales &#8211; 62 (125) &#8211; Down 50%</p>
<p>GV Town Average &#8211; 394K (423.3K) &#8211; Down 7%<br />
GV Town Median &#8211; 382.5K (393K) &#8211; Down 3%<br />
GV Town Sales &#8211; 32 (41) Down 22%</p>
<p>13 percent loss on average SFH; 26 percent slide for condos&#8230; where&#8217;s that Victoria realtor who two years ago said to me, &#8220;Well, you&#8217;d better buy whatever you can afford, &#8217;cause prices AREN&#8217;T COMING DOWN!&#8221;</p>
<p>Jackass.</p>
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		<title>By: canuck</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16784</link>
		<dc:creator>canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16784</guid>
		<description>My intent was not to distort and I&#039;m not a trained journalist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My intent was not to distort and I&#8217;m not a trained journalist.</p>
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		<title>By: canuck</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16783</link>
		<dc:creator>canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16783</guid>
		<description>You asked for my opinion and I gave it.  I&#039;m not a journalist and didn&#039;t deliberately try to distort what you wrote.  

Tone in books are important and in places, yours brings back memories of the 50s where students were instructed to hide under desks.  Many people during those times did build bomb shelters in back yards and stocked them with groceries.   They also armed themselves.    My family didn&#039;t and never will even if a depression happens.   I strongly suspect you wouldn&#039;t either, but that&#039;s not clear in your book!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You asked for my opinion and I gave it.  I&#8217;m not a journalist and didn&#8217;t deliberately try to distort what you wrote.  </p>
<p>Tone in books are important and in places, yours brings back memories of the 50s where students were instructed to hide under desks.  Many people during those times did build bomb shelters in back yards and stocked them with groceries.   They also armed themselves.    My family didn&#8217;t and never will even if a depression happens.   I strongly suspect you wouldn&#8217;t either, but that&#8217;s not clear in your book!</p>
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		<title>By: canuck</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16781</link>
		<dc:creator>canuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16781</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You discredit your words with exaggeration. Give me a reference for “the advice in Garth’s book that advocates building bomb-shelters, stocking up with groceries, arming myself to protect my stash,” or I might use my squirrel cannon on you. — Garth&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Page 125, &quot;Get a weapon and learn to hunt,&quot;  page 126, &quot;Get a dog.   A real dog, like a German Shepherd or a Rottie. &quot; Repeated instructions throughout the book for building Bad Day Boxes and Go Bags for families and pets. 

Our pet is a designer mongrel breed called 
Eski-Poo; miniature American Eskimo, and miniature Poodle.   His intelligence level is very high, and priceless as a member of our family.  He&#039;d likely enthusiastically lick a robber&#039;s face!  :-)    

I didn&#039;t condemn your book...said you made some excellent points, and particularly liked the final paragraph on page 126, &quot;Build community support...Most importantly, find others to share your burdens with and to talk with about sweeter times to come.&quot; That philosophy you repeated at the end of the book, page 226.  

Overall, your book advocates that people prepare and that&#039;s a good thing.  Too bad you&#039;re not willing to accept mild critiques of your book!   I did find the book helpful just don&#039;t agree with everything you advocated in it.     Agree that critics are a dime a dozen and do work hard to devise plans that we&#039;re able to accept.   Thank you for writing the book and ask that you extend to readers their own way of adapting.

&lt;em&gt;You must learn to be more careful. My references to dogs, hunting etc. was contained in a list of actions which is clearly prefaced as aimed at those who believe categorically a new depression is at hand. I have written on this blog repeatedly that I put those odds at 15% to 20%. Surely you know enough not to quote out of context. Let&#039;s leave that for the journalists. -- Garth&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You discredit your words with exaggeration. Give me a reference for “the advice in Garth’s book that advocates building bomb-shelters, stocking up with groceries, arming myself to protect my stash,” or I might use my squirrel cannon on you. — Garth</p></blockquote>
<p>Page 125, &#8220;Get a weapon and learn to hunt,&#8221;  page 126, &#8220;Get a dog.   A real dog, like a German Shepherd or a Rottie. &#8221; Repeated instructions throughout the book for building Bad Day Boxes and Go Bags for families and pets. </p>
<p>Our pet is a designer mongrel breed called<br />
Eski-Poo; miniature American Eskimo, and miniature Poodle.   His intelligence level is very high, and priceless as a member of our family.  He&#8217;d likely enthusiastically lick a robber&#8217;s face!  <img src='http://www.greaterfool.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />     </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t condemn your book&#8230;said you made some excellent points, and particularly liked the final paragraph on page 126, &#8220;Build community support&#8230;Most importantly, find others to share your burdens with and to talk with about sweeter times to come.&#8221; That philosophy you repeated at the end of the book, page 226.  </p>
<p>Overall, your book advocates that people prepare and that&#8217;s a good thing.  Too bad you&#8217;re not willing to accept mild critiques of your book!   I did find the book helpful just don&#8217;t agree with everything you advocated in it.     Agree that critics are a dime a dozen and do work hard to devise plans that we&#8217;re able to accept.   Thank you for writing the book and ask that you extend to readers their own way of adapting.</p>
<p><em>You must learn to be more careful. My references to dogs, hunting etc. was contained in a list of actions which is clearly prefaced as aimed at those who believe categorically a new depression is at hand. I have written on this blog repeatedly that I put those odds at 15% to 20%. Surely you know enough not to quote out of context. Let&#8217;s leave that for the journalists. &#8212; Garth</em></p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16779</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16779</guid>
		<description>#111 dd


Not sure where I. said 100%, you might want to look into gold and silver prices during crash years through out history,I don&#039;t recommend 100 percent but I do say more then 15% and I would stay away from ETF&#039;s but what would I know as I&#039;m a red neck albertan pipeliner soon to be out of work either way you make the bed you lay in so the choices are all yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#111 dd</p>
<p>Not sure where I. said 100%, you might want to look into gold and silver prices during crash years through out history,I don&#8217;t recommend 100 percent but I do say more then 15% and I would stay away from ETF&#8217;s but what would I know as I&#8217;m a red neck albertan pipeliner soon to be out of work either way you make the bed you lay in so the choices are all yours.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16772</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16772</guid>
		<description>#76 Barb (tpr) on 02.01.09 at 2:13 pm 

------

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#76 Barb (tpr) on 02.01.09 at 2:13 pm </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww</p>
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		<title>By: Zoronqueen</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16771</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoronqueen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16771</guid>
		<description>Hello all,

We are still in rainy Vancouver. Too bad I will be missing Garth as leaving on Wed. to head back to Deadmonton. 

Anyways the buyers must really want our house as they have contacted our realtor directly and still want to buy at 285K, as I said before the average liisting is 335K, ours is at 299K, city assessment at 336K, we are currently lowest. 2 had sold at similar listing but realtor won&#039;t tell us at what price.

Here is the feedback my husband is getting as to why we shouldn&#039;t sell:
1) Prices will rebound after a year
2) Nobody sells below city assessment
3) We can still be accidental rental property
4) We will lose 40K from last year price

Anyone care to counter argue??


Here&#039;s a link
http://housingdoom.com/2009/01/26/crack-of-doom-the-bums-are-in-china/#more-1989</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all,</p>
<p>We are still in rainy Vancouver. Too bad I will be missing Garth as leaving on Wed. to head back to Deadmonton. </p>
<p>Anyways the buyers must really want our house as they have contacted our realtor directly and still want to buy at 285K, as I said before the average liisting is 335K, ours is at 299K, city assessment at 336K, we are currently lowest. 2 had sold at similar listing but realtor won&#8217;t tell us at what price.</p>
<p>Here is the feedback my husband is getting as to why we shouldn&#8217;t sell:<br />
1) Prices will rebound after a year<br />
2) Nobody sells below city assessment<br />
3) We can still be accidental rental property<br />
4) We will lose 40K from last year price</p>
<p>Anyone care to counter argue??</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link<br />
<a href="http://housingdoom.com/2009/01/26/crack-of-doom-the-bums-are-in-china/#more-1989" rel="nofollow">http://housingdoom.com/2009/01/26/crack-of-doom-the-bums-are-in-china/#more-1989</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill-Muskoka (N.A.M.)</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2009/01/31/victoria-bust/comment-page-3/#comment-16764</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill-Muskoka (N.A.M.)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=1537#comment-16764</guid>
		<description>#100  Accremonium on 02.01.09 at 9:51 pm

Very interesting comment.  Thank you.  I think there is a viable lesson from what you posted in that what we find at one location is not representative of everywhere.

This is the problem I see with the suits.  They lock themselves into a mindset and dismiss alternative products and means.  As an engineer I can well relate to how the details make the difference.

During WWII the military manufacturers of southern California dumped tens of thousands of barrels of hazardous waste into the salt water mud flats which is now Mission Bay in San Diego.

Mission Bay was a man made water body created by dredging.  The dredging material formed the land.  All well and good until the area was chosen for a new muncipal park and the old waste was exposed.

Result:  an environmental nightmare where the Trichlorethane/ethylene could not even be measured because the GLC equipment could not be calibrated to that high of level.

The site was emitting Hydrogen Sulfide  (H2S) gas and it killed a worker.  H2S is what makes a well &#039;sour&#039; and it is a very deadly gas.

As I said before, what the general public, and even those involved in science know about this planet is a drop in the ocean compared to what we don&#039;t know.  Fortunately, Rumsfeld is not making the inquiries because as he said , &#039;There are things we don&#039;t know we don&#039;t know!  Duh&#039;oh?  Gee, what a brilliant mind he has, eh?

I also think we are going through a period of extreme evolution in our thinking.  What my parents, even my brother&#039;s generation knew compared to what we no0w are becomign aware of, was totally misleading.

I am amazed daily at how fast things are being overturned that were firm absolutes.  Today we are starting to grasp the system we live in.  Regarding the environment pertaining to climate, the really serious issues lie in what is happening to the ocean currents.  The land mass contributes, but the oceans literally drive our planet&#039;s weather system.

We know this solidly, yet why is there a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;floating ocean of plastic waste in the Pacific?&lt;/a&gt;

Another case of &#039;out of sight = out of mind&#039; which has been mankind&#039;s legacy for too long.

BTW, here is a great site for fascinating information &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spaceweather.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Space Weather&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#100  Accremonium on 02.01.09 at 9:51 pm</p>
<p>Very interesting comment.  Thank you.  I think there is a viable lesson from what you posted in that what we find at one location is not representative of everywhere.</p>
<p>This is the problem I see with the suits.  They lock themselves into a mindset and dismiss alternative products and means.  As an engineer I can well relate to how the details make the difference.</p>
<p>During WWII the military manufacturers of southern California dumped tens of thousands of barrels of hazardous waste into the salt water mud flats which is now Mission Bay in San Diego.</p>
<p>Mission Bay was a man made water body created by dredging.  The dredging material formed the land.  All well and good until the area was chosen for a new muncipal park and the old waste was exposed.</p>
<p>Result:  an environmental nightmare where the Trichlorethane/ethylene could not even be measured because the GLC equipment could not be calibrated to that high of level.</p>
<p>The site was emitting Hydrogen Sulfide  (H2S) gas and it killed a worker.  H2S is what makes a well &#8217;sour&#8217; and it is a very deadly gas.</p>
<p>As I said before, what the general public, and even those involved in science know about this planet is a drop in the ocean compared to what we don&#8217;t know.  Fortunately, Rumsfeld is not making the inquiries because as he said , &#8216;There are things we don&#8217;t know we don&#8217;t know!  Duh&#8217;oh?  Gee, what a brilliant mind he has, eh?</p>
<p>I also think we are going through a period of extreme evolution in our thinking.  What my parents, even my brother&#8217;s generation knew compared to what we no0w are becomign aware of, was totally misleading.</p>
<p>I am amazed daily at how fast things are being overturned that were firm absolutes.  Today we are starting to grasp the system we live in.  Regarding the environment pertaining to climate, the really serious issues lie in what is happening to the ocean currents.  The land mass contributes, but the oceans literally drive our planet&#8217;s weather system.</p>
<p>We know this solidly, yet why is there a <a href="http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm" rel="nofollow">floating ocean of plastic waste in the Pacific?</a></p>
<p>Another case of &#8216;out of sight = out of mind&#8217; which has been mankind&#8217;s legacy for too long.</p>
<p>BTW, here is a great site for fascinating information <a href="http://www.spaceweather.com/" rel="nofollow">Space Weather</a></p>
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