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	<title>Comments on: Cowgirl kiss</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: J.B.</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-10075</link>
		<dc:creator>J.B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-10075</guid>
		<description>Good grief everyone, get a grip!  Even if we lost all of our savings we still have more than half the population of the world.  And it was never God&#039;s plan that our world last forever so make your peace with him and get your priorities straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief everyone, get a grip!  Even if we lost all of our savings we still have more than half the population of the world.  And it was never God&#8217;s plan that our world last forever so make your peace with him and get your priorities straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Just a Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-10013</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-10013</guid>
		<description>#57 Alan wrote: &quot;Plus, there really isn’t that much to see in Canmore. Once you’ve been there once, you’ve seen it all.&quot;
====
You didn&#039;t really mean that, did you? :)

I guess if a person wants to SHOP or DINE or stare out the window at the mountains from their indoor hot tub, it could get pretty boring !

However, I&#039;ve camped outdoors in K-country with my children, regularly over the past 20 years. There are so many hikes, rocks to climb, waters to paddle, trails to explore, wildlife to observe, weather changes, and natural beauty to be appreciated ... endlessly fascinating, never boring, and we were always sad to leave. Socially, we had great card games, conversations, and meals around the campfire. My fondest family memories are in those mountains.

Canmore is spectacular, like many other corners of the world.  We tried to &#039;leave only footprints&#039;, we did our best.  We were not perfect human beings, but we were thoughtful campers, and we respected the land.

We all need to be cognizant not to love our national parks, protected areas, and public natural treasures to death!

However, a simple reality is, acknowledging our dependence and appreciation for a certain portion of development. We filled up our gas tank in Canmore, bought groceries, beverages, took our kids to the candy store, bought maps and secondhand books from downstairs bookstore. And yes, occasionally we took our kids to McDonalds ;)  We were grateful to have those services nearby.

Long story short, the Canmore &#039;window gazing condo&#039; wasn&#039;t the experience we personally wanted, but we were gracious visitors and will always be enduring fans of Canmore&#039;s outdoor offerings ... so if some find it boring, that actually might be a good thing for Canmore, in a roundabout way, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#57 Alan wrote: &#8220;Plus, there really isn’t that much to see in Canmore. Once you’ve been there once, you’ve seen it all.&#8221;<br />
====<br />
You didn&#8217;t really mean that, did you? <img src='http://www.greaterfool.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I guess if a person wants to SHOP or DINE or stare out the window at the mountains from their indoor hot tub, it could get pretty boring !</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;ve camped outdoors in K-country with my children, regularly over the past 20 years. There are so many hikes, rocks to climb, waters to paddle, trails to explore, wildlife to observe, weather changes, and natural beauty to be appreciated &#8230; endlessly fascinating, never boring, and we were always sad to leave. Socially, we had great card games, conversations, and meals around the campfire. My fondest family memories are in those mountains.</p>
<p>Canmore is spectacular, like many other corners of the world.  We tried to &#8216;leave only footprints&#8217;, we did our best.  We were not perfect human beings, but we were thoughtful campers, and we respected the land.</p>
<p>We all need to be cognizant not to love our national parks, protected areas, and public natural treasures to death!</p>
<p>However, a simple reality is, acknowledging our dependence and appreciation for a certain portion of development. We filled up our gas tank in Canmore, bought groceries, beverages, took our kids to the candy store, bought maps and secondhand books from downstairs bookstore. And yes, occasionally we took our kids to McDonalds <img src='http://www.greaterfool.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   We were grateful to have those services nearby.</p>
<p>Long story short, the Canmore &#8216;window gazing condo&#8217; wasn&#8217;t the experience we personally wanted, but we were gracious visitors and will always be enduring fans of Canmore&#8217;s outdoor offerings &#8230; so if some find it boring, that actually might be a good thing for Canmore, in a roundabout way, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Kelowna Gal</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9959</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelowna Gal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9959</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Canmore.....has anyone been to Kelowna lately?  The city council and developers have COMPLETELY ruined our beautiful town (I forgot, they call it a city.)  Now some of the developers have stopped building and we are left with big concrete structures that are just sitting.  It&#039;s horrible.

Yesterday in the paper there was a report that came out and said that 25% of the children who live here, live well below the poverty level.  How sad!!!!!!!  Maybe an economic collapse will bring some balance to a very unbalance society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Canmore&#8230;..has anyone been to Kelowna lately?  The city council and developers have COMPLETELY ruined our beautiful town (I forgot, they call it a city.)  Now some of the developers have stopped building and we are left with big concrete structures that are just sitting.  It&#8217;s horrible.</p>
<p>Yesterday in the paper there was a report that came out and said that 25% of the children who live here, live well below the poverty level.  How sad!!!!!!!  Maybe an economic collapse will bring some balance to a very unbalance society.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9952</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9952</guid>
		<description>yikes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yikes</p>
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		<title>By: nonplused</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9949</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9949</guid>
		<description>#37 Future Expatriate

I’m with you worrying about war.  The boomer generation, who must take primary responsibility for this mess since they were the majority voting and fielding candidates, are too old now to go to the battlefield.  So what a better use of Gen X and Y than to send them to die to obstruct and divert attention from the financial disaster the booms have created?  Y’s more so than X’s because we are too old now too unless already serving.

I could also see the boomers becoming enamoured with a fascist as a way of trying to compel Gen X and Y into saving their sorry welfare state and wars.  It won’t work though, as anyone familiar with Green Day’s latest album (American Idiot) will know.  There isn’t a single Gen Y in North America and most of the English speaking world that doesn’t know the lyrics to “Holiday”.

Here they are for you boomers.  Your kids and grandkids are listening to this and it accurately reflects what they think of your politics, and what they plan to do if pressed into unreasonable service or taxes.  

Say, Hey! 

Hear the sound of the falling rain 
Coming down like an Armageddon flame (Hey!) 
The shame 
The ones who died without a name 

Hear the dogs howling out of key 
To a hymn called &quot;Faith and Misery&quot; (Hey!) 
And bleed, the company lost the war today 

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies 
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives 
On holiday 

Hear the drum pounding out of time 
Another protestor has crossed the line (Hey!) 
To find, the money&#039;s on the other side 

Can I get another Amen? (Amen!) 
There&#039;s a flag wrapped around 
a score of men (Hey!) 
A gag, a plastic bag on a monument 

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies 
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives 
On holiday 

(Hey!) 
(Say, Hey!) 

(3,4) 

&quot;The representative from California has the floor&quot; 

Zieg Heil to the president gasman 
Bombs away is your punishment 
Pulverize the Eiffel towers 
Who criticize your government 
Bang bang goes the broken glass and 
Kill all the fags that don&#039;t agree 
Trials by fire, setting fire 
Is not a way that&#039;s meant for me 
Just cause, just cause, 
because we&#039;re outlaws yeah! 

I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies 
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives 
I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies 
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives 

This is our lives on holiday

Yes, that’s right.  Gen Y does not agree with the boomers politics and wars, and, since they are used to getting the short end of the stick anyway, they have a fall back plan.  Think “ski bum”. 


And the rest of you:

What’s the big grip against IKEA?  It’s not the hand made stuff you find in a fine furniture store for $1000 a bookcase, but the average working man can get half decent looking stuff for 1/10 the cost and the packaging saves tons of fuel and cardboard, which is good for the environment.

And I’ve been to the Brick, their crap is worse crap.  Plus IKEA has a $1.99 breakfast.  You can’t even get that at home.

You guys must be boomers.

&lt;em&gt;You sound like me in 1968. Relax. It&#039;ll pass. -- Garth&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#37 Future Expatriate</p>
<p>I’m with you worrying about war.  The boomer generation, who must take primary responsibility for this mess since they were the majority voting and fielding candidates, are too old now to go to the battlefield.  So what a better use of Gen X and Y than to send them to die to obstruct and divert attention from the financial disaster the booms have created?  Y’s more so than X’s because we are too old now too unless already serving.</p>
<p>I could also see the boomers becoming enamoured with a fascist as a way of trying to compel Gen X and Y into saving their sorry welfare state and wars.  It won’t work though, as anyone familiar with Green Day’s latest album (American Idiot) will know.  There isn’t a single Gen Y in North America and most of the English speaking world that doesn’t know the lyrics to “Holiday”.</p>
<p>Here they are for you boomers.  Your kids and grandkids are listening to this and it accurately reflects what they think of your politics, and what they plan to do if pressed into unreasonable service or taxes.  </p>
<p>Say, Hey! </p>
<p>Hear the sound of the falling rain<br />
Coming down like an Armageddon flame (Hey!)<br />
The shame<br />
The ones who died without a name </p>
<p>Hear the dogs howling out of key<br />
To a hymn called &#8220;Faith and Misery&#8221; (Hey!)<br />
And bleed, the company lost the war today </p>
<p>I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies<br />
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives<br />
On holiday </p>
<p>Hear the drum pounding out of time<br />
Another protestor has crossed the line (Hey!)<br />
To find, the money&#8217;s on the other side </p>
<p>Can I get another Amen? (Amen!)<br />
There&#8217;s a flag wrapped around<br />
a score of men (Hey!)<br />
A gag, a plastic bag on a monument </p>
<p>I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies<br />
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives<br />
On holiday </p>
<p>(Hey!)<br />
(Say, Hey!) </p>
<p>(3,4) </p>
<p>&#8220;The representative from California has the floor&#8221; </p>
<p>Zieg Heil to the president gasman<br />
Bombs away is your punishment<br />
Pulverize the Eiffel towers<br />
Who criticize your government<br />
Bang bang goes the broken glass and<br />
Kill all the fags that don&#8217;t agree<br />
Trials by fire, setting fire<br />
Is not a way that&#8217;s meant for me<br />
Just cause, just cause,<br />
because we&#8217;re outlaws yeah! </p>
<p>I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies<br />
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives<br />
I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies<br />
This is the dawning of the rest of our lives </p>
<p>This is our lives on holiday</p>
<p>Yes, that’s right.  Gen Y does not agree with the boomers politics and wars, and, since they are used to getting the short end of the stick anyway, they have a fall back plan.  Think “ski bum”. </p>
<p>And the rest of you:</p>
<p>What’s the big grip against IKEA?  It’s not the hand made stuff you find in a fine furniture store for $1000 a bookcase, but the average working man can get half decent looking stuff for 1/10 the cost and the packaging saves tons of fuel and cardboard, which is good for the environment.</p>
<p>And I’ve been to the Brick, their crap is worse crap.  Plus IKEA has a $1.99 breakfast.  You can’t even get that at home.</p>
<p>You guys must be boomers.</p>
<p><em>You sound like me in 1968. Relax. It&#8217;ll pass. &#8212; Garth</em></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Yeung</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9922</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Yeung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9922</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never understood the appeal of buying a &quot;vacation home&quot; in Canmore. There&#039;s no local industry beyond tourism. Are there really that many people who can afford $300,000+ condos in which they&#039;ll spend maybe 2 weeks a year using for vacations? It makes no sense. The market there has always been entirely speculative.

Plus, there really isn&#039;t that much to see in Canmore. Once you&#039;ve been there once, you&#039;ve seen it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never understood the appeal of buying a &#8220;vacation home&#8221; in Canmore. There&#8217;s no local industry beyond tourism. Are there really that many people who can afford $300,000+ condos in which they&#8217;ll spend maybe 2 weeks a year using for vacations? It makes no sense. The market there has always been entirely speculative.</p>
<p>Plus, there really isn&#8217;t that much to see in Canmore. Once you&#8217;ve been there once, you&#8217;ve seen it all.</p>
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		<title>By: 416er</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9900</link>
		<dc:creator>416er</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9900</guid>
		<description>pjwlk:  I should clarify my comment was in reference to the &#039;retail level&#039; of their operations as most of Canacs business came from new home builders.   Also, I was referring to Ikea&#039;s kitchen cabinetry product not their furniture.

GenXer:  There are many levels of quality, relative to price.  Semi-custom kitchen mfg&#039;s offer product at a variety of price points.  Frameless kitchens with melamine base cabinets, lacquer, wood or glass door styles, full extension metal drawer boxes, blum hinges.  If you research, comparing spec for spec,,,,,,,,,,,looking at similar or equal construction quality, for the price, and the fact you don&#039;t have to wait 8-10wks for it -  its hard to compete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pjwlk:  I should clarify my comment was in reference to the &#8216;retail level&#8217; of their operations as most of Canacs business came from new home builders.   Also, I was referring to Ikea&#8217;s kitchen cabinetry product not their furniture.</p>
<p>GenXer:  There are many levels of quality, relative to price.  Semi-custom kitchen mfg&#8217;s offer product at a variety of price points.  Frameless kitchens with melamine base cabinets, lacquer, wood or glass door styles, full extension metal drawer boxes, blum hinges.  If you research, comparing spec for spec,,,,,,,,,,,looking at similar or equal construction quality, for the price, and the fact you don&#8217;t have to wait 8-10wks for it &#8211;  its hard to compete.</p>
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		<title>By: Mountain Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9891</link>
		<dc:creator>Mountain Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9891</guid>
		<description>Islander - 
If you were on the Rockyview board, then you were exactly one of the people responsible for the kind of unsustainable development that now has Calgary facing 25% property tax hikes as we try to deal with urban sprawl on an unprecedented scale.  We&#039;re one of the worst cities in North America for this problem and it sounds like your wise decisions helped to put us there.
A great big sarcastic thanks for the foresight and planning, and a huge salute to those poor poor developers who bravely plowed over wetlands and native prairie and took a nasty bite out of the foothills to bring us piece of crap houses that, as David, #27, pointed out, probably will be crumbling in 20-40 years.  
As for the accusation that I live in one of those horrendously planned developments and so am being hypocritical by condemning others who do, sorry pal, I live in an old house in inner city Calgary.  When I go out to enjoy the mountains, my primary concern is my ecological impact there, not some self-entitled swaggering &quot;right&quot; to have a holiday property.  And as I have a right to enjoy that wilderness area as part of my Canadian heritage and legacy, I highly resent people like yourself who look at the land and can only see it&#039;s worth in private profit for a few.  I will vigorously defend that common heritage from private profit.
Of course, we all need a place to live, Islander.  I don&#039;t expect the people who live in those Canmore condos as their primary residence to go live in a tent in a campground, but there are lots and lots of ways to reduce our impact on the planet when we develop new housing.  Building clearcut condo developments in prime montane forest is not one of them.  Especially when those developments are designed and marketed as luxury holiday homes and further serve to make having a place to live a whole lot more difficult for the average folks who call places like Canmore home.
I don&#039;t think anyone is perfect when it comes to living sustainably.  We all have a long way to go on that front.  But if we never question the wastefulness or the ethics of our lifestyle, how will it ever change?
Glad to hear that you think the current system is just peachy.  I heartily disagree and will continue to stand up for what I consider to be ethical practice in land development and real estate.  Which I guess will involve working to correct the bad practices of you and your friends at the MD of Rockyview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Islander &#8211;<br />
If you were on the Rockyview board, then you were exactly one of the people responsible for the kind of unsustainable development that now has Calgary facing 25% property tax hikes as we try to deal with urban sprawl on an unprecedented scale.  We&#8217;re one of the worst cities in North America for this problem and it sounds like your wise decisions helped to put us there.<br />
A great big sarcastic thanks for the foresight and planning, and a huge salute to those poor poor developers who bravely plowed over wetlands and native prairie and took a nasty bite out of the foothills to bring us piece of crap houses that, as David, #27, pointed out, probably will be crumbling in 20-40 years.<br />
As for the accusation that I live in one of those horrendously planned developments and so am being hypocritical by condemning others who do, sorry pal, I live in an old house in inner city Calgary.  When I go out to enjoy the mountains, my primary concern is my ecological impact there, not some self-entitled swaggering &#8220;right&#8221; to have a holiday property.  And as I have a right to enjoy that wilderness area as part of my Canadian heritage and legacy, I highly resent people like yourself who look at the land and can only see it&#8217;s worth in private profit for a few.  I will vigorously defend that common heritage from private profit.<br />
Of course, we all need a place to live, Islander.  I don&#8217;t expect the people who live in those Canmore condos as their primary residence to go live in a tent in a campground, but there are lots and lots of ways to reduce our impact on the planet when we develop new housing.  Building clearcut condo developments in prime montane forest is not one of them.  Especially when those developments are designed and marketed as luxury holiday homes and further serve to make having a place to live a whole lot more difficult for the average folks who call places like Canmore home.<br />
I don&#8217;t think anyone is perfect when it comes to living sustainably.  We all have a long way to go on that front.  But if we never question the wastefulness or the ethics of our lifestyle, how will it ever change?<br />
Glad to hear that you think the current system is just peachy.  I heartily disagree and will continue to stand up for what I consider to be ethical practice in land development and real estate.  Which I guess will involve working to correct the bad practices of you and your friends at the MD of Rockyview.</p>
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		<title>By: brazer</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9888</link>
		<dc:creator>brazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9888</guid>
		<description>#51 islander

&lt;i&gt;If “greedy” developers didn’t put their entire personal worth on the line every time they banked land, went through years of development process, and risked everything to build out a project, YOU would have nowhere to live.&lt;/i&gt;

virtually all developers, greedy or otherwise, operate as corporate entities.

they are not personally liable if the company goes belly up, or hits any snags; so outside of cash flow issues, drawing &#039;salaries&#039; from the company, driving a &#039;company&#039; vehicle and things like that, i fail to see how their &lt;i&gt;personal&lt;/i&gt; net worth is impacted (outside of seed dollars invested, which they have likely already pulled out via dividend income to themselves as shareholders).

please explain how their &#039;entire net worth&#039; is put on the line &#039;every time they bank land&#039;....?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#51 islander</p>
<p><i>If “greedy” developers didn’t put their entire personal worth on the line every time they banked land, went through years of development process, and risked everything to build out a project, YOU would have nowhere to live.</i></p>
<p>virtually all developers, greedy or otherwise, operate as corporate entities.</p>
<p>they are not personally liable if the company goes belly up, or hits any snags; so outside of cash flow issues, drawing &#8217;salaries&#8217; from the company, driving a &#8216;company&#8217; vehicle and things like that, i fail to see how their <i>personal</i> net worth is impacted (outside of seed dollars invested, which they have likely already pulled out via dividend income to themselves as shareholders).</p>
<p>please explain how their &#8216;entire net worth&#8217; is put on the line &#8216;every time they bank land&#8217;&#8230;.?</p>
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		<title>By: brazer</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/21/cowgirl-kiss/comment-page-2/#comment-9887</link>
		<dc:creator>brazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=893#comment-9887</guid>
		<description>#45  T.O. Girl

&lt;i&gt;Can anyone post any recent realestate stories or experiences in the Toronto Area Market?&lt;/i&gt;

a couple i know listed their luxury rosedale detached home for sale about 6 weeks ago....held several open houses in the first few weekends, and are now only showing their home &#039;by appointment &#039;.

i spoke with them last night, and they said there have been zero offers and that they had gotten just one enquiry in the last 2 weeks and they were already thinking of other options such as renting the property, or re-listing in the spring if a buyer does not materialize.

the home is listed at $1.3M, so speaks to what is happening in that segment of the market place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#45  T.O. Girl</p>
<p><i>Can anyone post any recent realestate stories or experiences in the Toronto Area Market?</i></p>
<p>a couple i know listed their luxury rosedale detached home for sale about 6 weeks ago&#8230;.held several open houses in the first few weekends, and are now only showing their home &#8216;by appointment &#8216;.</p>
<p>i spoke with them last night, and they said there have been zero offers and that they had gotten just one enquiry in the last 2 weeks and they were already thinking of other options such as renting the property, or re-listing in the spring if a buyer does not materialize.</p>
<p>the home is listed at $1.3M, so speaks to what is happening in that segment of the market place.</p>
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