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	<title>Comments on: The devil &amp; the cockroach</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-10159</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-10159</guid>
		<description>Dominant world economies start with a population that produces more than any other country. Rome, France, Britain, United States and now China grew through unparrallelled production abilities. The production gives the government the ability to tax. As time passes the country gets involved in many foreign affairs in order to secure production outside its borders. These affairs quickly become obligations as the superpower becomes entirely dependent upon them. 

Over decades this superiority gives citizens within the superpower the idea that they can get away with not producing. That somehow there country and citizens are innately priveleged to a higher purpose. They feel as though they can feed off other countries. 

Internal production shrinks and is replaced with speculative markets, which are merely just a back and forth movements of money that can no longer find a productive owner. It is important to note that speculation is completely pointless and has no productive qualities. The country becomes one big bubble.

At the same time its foreign obligations continue to grow. In order to meet the obligations the country takes on debt. The debt keeps rising until one day, it can no longer fund that debt with shrinking production. At that moment in time, the country without knowing it hands over the power to the next superpower.

Today and over the next twenty years we will watch America fall and China rise. It won&#039;t be pretty and it won&#039;t be fast. These transitions never are. Britain&#039;s wasn&#039;t fun, nor was Rome&#039;s. The fact that the US has a massive trade and government debt entering into this transitionary period promises harsh times ahead. Current trade and federal deficits are growing exponentially by the month and are ballooning into trillions of dollars, each. The US transition from superpower status will be long and punishing. 

In this time watch China rise in the exact same manner as the US or Britain or Rome once did. Production. 

China&#039;s currency will soon become a standard. It&#039;s importance in foreign affairs will be unmatched. One day far in the future, its people too will stop trying, stop producing, feeling special and within their own bubble, they will merely speculate. Their debt will grow. Then reality hits and the bubble pops. 

It&#039;s like watching history happen well into the future. I guess that is how Garth felt when writing the Greater Fool. Moral of the story? Don&#039;t lock in to real estate and debt in a time of great uncertainty. For a country that is entirely dependent on the US, we are most at risk as they fall off of their own pedestal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dominant world economies start with a population that produces more than any other country. Rome, France, Britain, United States and now China grew through unparrallelled production abilities. The production gives the government the ability to tax. As time passes the country gets involved in many foreign affairs in order to secure production outside its borders. These affairs quickly become obligations as the superpower becomes entirely dependent upon them. </p>
<p>Over decades this superiority gives citizens within the superpower the idea that they can get away with not producing. That somehow there country and citizens are innately priveleged to a higher purpose. They feel as though they can feed off other countries. </p>
<p>Internal production shrinks and is replaced with speculative markets, which are merely just a back and forth movements of money that can no longer find a productive owner. It is important to note that speculation is completely pointless and has no productive qualities. The country becomes one big bubble.</p>
<p>At the same time its foreign obligations continue to grow. In order to meet the obligations the country takes on debt. The debt keeps rising until one day, it can no longer fund that debt with shrinking production. At that moment in time, the country without knowing it hands over the power to the next superpower.</p>
<p>Today and over the next twenty years we will watch America fall and China rise. It won&#8217;t be pretty and it won&#8217;t be fast. These transitions never are. Britain&#8217;s wasn&#8217;t fun, nor was Rome&#8217;s. The fact that the US has a massive trade and government debt entering into this transitionary period promises harsh times ahead. Current trade and federal deficits are growing exponentially by the month and are ballooning into trillions of dollars, each. The US transition from superpower status will be long and punishing. </p>
<p>In this time watch China rise in the exact same manner as the US or Britain or Rome once did. Production. </p>
<p>China&#8217;s currency will soon become a standard. It&#8217;s importance in foreign affairs will be unmatched. One day far in the future, its people too will stop trying, stop producing, feeling special and within their own bubble, they will merely speculate. Their debt will grow. Then reality hits and the bubble pops. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like watching history happen well into the future. I guess that is how Garth felt when writing the Greater Fool. Moral of the story? Don&#8217;t lock in to real estate and debt in a time of great uncertainty. For a country that is entirely dependent on the US, we are most at risk as they fall off of their own pedestal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-10155</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-10155</guid>
		<description>Someone questioned...    “Some people think a major Canadian bank will fail (not hard to guess which one) before this is over”

and asked....    Which bank would that be?

My guess would be CIBC, they have the riskiest mortgage business out there..
&lt;em&gt;
Failure of any Canadian bank is a remote possibility. Merger is more probable. -- Garth&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone questioned&#8230;    “Some people think a major Canadian bank will fail (not hard to guess which one) before this is over”</p>
<p>and asked&#8230;.    Which bank would that be?</p>
<p>My guess would be CIBC, they have the riskiest mortgage business out there..<br />
<em><br />
Failure of any Canadian bank is a remote possibility. Merger is more probable. &#8212; Garth</em></p>
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		<title>By: Just a Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-10138</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-10138</guid>
		<description>#136 FP wrote: &quot;I don’t pretend to have a sophisticated grasp of economics — just a laywoman’s understanding — but I can’t understand why so many economic experts keep predicting deflation when prices of groceries and utilities keep going up almost every month.&quot;

Food prices are affected by many factors: cost of energy, weather, consumption/demand, population, etc.

The soaring cost of oil and inflationary pressures have increased the cost of food worldwide. If we are moving to a deflationary period, there theoretically there should be some easing off on prices in the future.

In the meantime, I think it&#039;s safe to say, the food banks could probably use our support this Christmas, for those that are in a position to share :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#136 FP wrote: &#8220;I don’t pretend to have a sophisticated grasp of economics — just a laywoman’s understanding — but I can’t understand why so many economic experts keep predicting deflation when prices of groceries and utilities keep going up almost every month.&#8221;</p>
<p>Food prices are affected by many factors: cost of energy, weather, consumption/demand, population, etc.</p>
<p>The soaring cost of oil and inflationary pressures have increased the cost of food worldwide. If we are moving to a deflationary period, there theoretically there should be some easing off on prices in the future.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I think it&#8217;s safe to say, the food banks could probably use our support this Christmas, for those that are in a position to share <img src='http://www.greaterfool.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bottoms_Up</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9864</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottoms_Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9864</guid>
		<description>Well Novagardener, here is a link to a scientific study that concluded education is an important factor in obesity:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15533527?ordinalpos=2&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
The study also points out that socioeconomical status is not necessarily independent of education, and is obviously multivariable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Novagardener, here is a link to a scientific study that concluded education is an important factor in obesity:<br />
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15533527?ordinalpos=2&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15533527?ordinalpos=2&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum</a><br />
The study also points out that socioeconomical status is not necessarily independent of education, and is obviously multivariable.</p>
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		<title>By: The Coming Depression</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9811</link>
		<dc:creator>The Coming Depression</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9811</guid>
		<description>Check out Peter Schiff and what is coming for GOLD and the economy...6 min video and quite scary..he is the guy on Glen Beck..a must see!
http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out Peter Schiff and what is coming for GOLD and the economy&#8230;6 min video and quite scary..he is the guy on Glen Beck..a must see!<br />
<a href="http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: novagardener</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9801</link>
		<dc:creator>novagardener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9801</guid>
		<description>#140 Bottoms Up

Weight is independent of socioeconomical status (it’s probably more related to education and self restraint).

That&#039;s garbage theory.  Its a known fact that those in the lowest echelons of our society  derive most of their calories on pasta &amp; high, cheap carbohydrates.  They cannot afford high cost fresh fruits &amp; vegetables &amp; lower fat meats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#140 Bottoms Up</p>
<p>Weight is independent of socioeconomical status (it’s probably more related to education and self restraint).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s garbage theory.  Its a known fact that those in the lowest echelons of our society  derive most of their calories on pasta &amp; high, cheap carbohydrates.  They cannot afford high cost fresh fruits &amp; vegetables &amp; lower fat meats.</p>
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		<title>By: Bottoms_Up</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9791</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottoms_Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9791</guid>
		<description>RE: #132 &quot;And sugar is a poison.

Bad and unhealthy food is cheap, which is why poor peope are fat.&quot;
----------------------------------------------
1: TOO MUCH sugar is a poison. Sugar (glucose) is required for proper muscle and brain function.

2: Oranges are not unhealthy. I saw a man who was 200lbs overweight because he ate 30 oranges/day, thinking it would be healthy for him. I also know lots of rich overweight people. Extra weight comes from eating too much food, and not enough exercise. Weight is independent of socioeconomical status (it&#039;s probably more related to education and self restraint).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: #132 &#8220;And sugar is a poison.</p>
<p>Bad and unhealthy food is cheap, which is why poor peope are fat.&#8221;<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
1: TOO MUCH sugar is a poison. Sugar (glucose) is required for proper muscle and brain function.</p>
<p>2: Oranges are not unhealthy. I saw a man who was 200lbs overweight because he ate 30 oranges/day, thinking it would be healthy for him. I also know lots of rich overweight people. Extra weight comes from eating too much food, and not enough exercise. Weight is independent of socioeconomical status (it&#8217;s probably more related to education and self restraint).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9784</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9784</guid>
		<description>Geez, the banks aren&#039;t lending money to the car dealers.  How is this supppose to help the Big 3 ?  I suppose they rather lend money to home buyers instead.  sheesh!


http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/473711</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, the banks aren&#8217;t lending money to the car dealers.  How is this supppose to help the Big 3 ?  I suppose they rather lend money to home buyers instead.  sheesh!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/473711" rel="nofollow">http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/473711</a></p>
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		<title>By: Octagonian</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9770</link>
		<dc:creator>Octagonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9770</guid>
		<description>Post script to my previous post imploring Garth to lighten up...

IF Garth believes he is right, and others also do, they should be doing the following:

-  Getting a good supply of guns and ammo -- crime will sky rocket under conditions Garth describes;  hunting will also be a very necessary endeavour, for which a gun will be needed;

-  Maintaining a large amount of gold, silver, and cash ON HAND;

-  Forming local mutual aid militias;

-  Overthrowing local governments whose tax policies not only impoverish the population and permit a precious few to live in privilege, but whoes spending also serves to distort and render dysfunctional said local economies;

-  SECEDING from Ontario/Canada...it is the Canadian dollar and the Bank of Canada, along with various inflationary, equalization, socialist and protectionist policies benefitting certain areas of the country that afflict other areas;  Mega-sized &quot;federations&quot; that are hyper-centralized and controlled from afar, historically suffer the most in recessions, depressions and economic upheavals.  If what Garth forecasts comes to pass, Canada will be no more.
&lt;em&gt;
Where the hell did you get your hands on my plan? -- Garth&lt;/em&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post script to my previous post imploring Garth to lighten up&#8230;</p>
<p>IF Garth believes he is right, and others also do, they should be doing the following:</p>
<p>-  Getting a good supply of guns and ammo &#8212; crime will sky rocket under conditions Garth describes;  hunting will also be a very necessary endeavour, for which a gun will be needed;</p>
<p>-  Maintaining a large amount of gold, silver, and cash ON HAND;</p>
<p>-  Forming local mutual aid militias;</p>
<p>-  Overthrowing local governments whose tax policies not only impoverish the population and permit a precious few to live in privilege, but whoes spending also serves to distort and render dysfunctional said local economies;</p>
<p>-  SECEDING from Ontario/Canada&#8230;it is the Canadian dollar and the Bank of Canada, along with various inflationary, equalization, socialist and protectionist policies benefitting certain areas of the country that afflict other areas;  Mega-sized &#8220;federations&#8221; that are hyper-centralized and controlled from afar, historically suffer the most in recessions, depressions and economic upheavals.  If what Garth forecasts comes to pass, Canada will be no more.<br />
<em><br />
Where the hell did you get your hands on my plan? &#8212; Garth</em></p>
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		<title>By: Octagonian</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/11/19/the-devil-the-cockroach/comment-page-3/#comment-9768</link>
		<dc:creator>Octagonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=838#comment-9768</guid>
		<description>#130 johm:

Banks ARE lending.  They just are not spraying cash around with a fire hose like they were until August 2007.  Credit worthy people and credit worthy projects get money, as they should.  Credit was never supposed to be free and easy -- it was once, before being printed out of thin air by pandering, corrupt governments, derived from peoples SAVINGS and was expected to be guarded against unnecessary risk.
But credit is there.  A close friend just financed a new car -- one of the categories where banks are tightening up;  I just got a mortgage for a rental property I purchased well under market;  another friend is opening a restaurant, with a mix of bank credit and private investment.
And, finally, while  the banks are not throwing it around as much any more, they HAVE megatonnes of credit.  Go to the Bank of Canada website and search &quot;M3&quot; the most reliable measure of the money supply.  You will be astounded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#130 johm:</p>
<p>Banks ARE lending.  They just are not spraying cash around with a fire hose like they were until August 2007.  Credit worthy people and credit worthy projects get money, as they should.  Credit was never supposed to be free and easy &#8212; it was once, before being printed out of thin air by pandering, corrupt governments, derived from peoples SAVINGS and was expected to be guarded against unnecessary risk.<br />
But credit is there.  A close friend just financed a new car &#8212; one of the categories where banks are tightening up;  I just got a mortgage for a rental property I purchased well under market;  another friend is opening a restaurant, with a mix of bank credit and private investment.<br />
And, finally, while  the banks are not throwing it around as much any more, they HAVE megatonnes of credit.  Go to the Bank of Canada website and search &#8220;M3&#8243; the most reliable measure of the money supply.  You will be astounded.</p>
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