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	<title>Comments on: BC&#8217;s ice age</title>
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	<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/10/25/bcs-ice-age/</link>
	<description>Book and Weblog - Authored by Garth Turner</description>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/10/25/bcs-ice-age/comment-page-2/#comment-7843</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=614#comment-7843</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s more support: http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081028.whousingmerrill1028/GIStory/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s more support: <a href="http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081028.whousingmerrill1028/GIStory/" rel="nofollow">http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081028.whousingmerrill1028/GIStory/</a></p>
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		<title>By: dd</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/10/25/bcs-ice-age/comment-page-2/#comment-7788</link>
		<dc:creator>dd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=614#comment-7788</guid>
		<description>#95 kc

&quot;My gut feelings are that China has had its moment in the sun and a new place will take over.&quot;  

You have got to be kidding.  Like UK in the early century, US in the mid to last half of this century, it will be China then India in this half of the century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#95 kc</p>
<p>&#8220;My gut feelings are that China has had its moment in the sun and a new place will take over.&#8221;  </p>
<p>You have got to be kidding.  Like UK in the early century, US in the mid to last half of this century, it will be China then India in this half of the century.</p>
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		<title>By: kc</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/10/25/bcs-ice-age/comment-page-2/#comment-7759</link>
		<dc:creator>kc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=614#comment-7759</guid>
		<description>dd on 10.27.08 at 9:50 am #72 kc,

The point is that WE do have support. The economics might be a 1930â€™s playout, however, we do have welfare, IE, free hospitals, and the governments are acting more quickly this time.

Yes it will be tough. But in the 1930â€™s there was NO support.

-----------------

During the 1930&#039;s relief was given out to the needy, the usual package was $10.00 a month. Today you would call it welfare or the Dole.

----------

#76 dd
#72 kc,

You have some valid points. However there is going to be 3 billion more people on this plant. Period. The Asian population is growing fast. They will want more of everything. There will not be enough resourse to feed, cloth, and heat all these people unless some big changes are made.


Yes correct. However wages donâ€™t have to stay low, they can increase over time. And I bet a car or durable goods in China will be available to the majority of the people within our lifetime. Donâ€™t just look at what someone can efford today â€¦ it is tomorrow what holds the promise.

------------

OK, here is the test then, wait for the next big UP-TICK (personaly I feel give this battle 10 years, we are headed for a whopper) then in the place of the Chinese Economy to come full circle they will need to have in the wings the orders to produce the wealth that they have experienced, however, in that same time I will bet you that there will be a different country (say Ethiopia) that will be exploited to extremes. Remember that in the last major bubble everything seemed to be made in Japan. (through the 80&#039;s early 90&#039;s) My gut feelings are that China has had its moment in the sun and a new place will take over. The way things are going here who knows it could be Canada for that matter that will be next in line to be greater exploited.

Now for that thesis to work out in China, there will have to be a great wealth shift, as the article stated, there is rich and poor, that&#039;s it. With out consumerism and jobs that support wages high enough to purchase autos, how can more cars be purchased? I fully understand what the article is saying; *maybe* over many, many, years it will become powerful enough to have/supply wealth to the poor peasants that migrate from the farming/agricultural areas  into the cities. The pill that is greatest to swallow however is the one that implies these migrant workers with their heads full of dreams will become wealthy enough to purchase the life style they are yearning for.  With what i&#039;ve read and watched on TV about the rising of China, the majority of the wealth produced has been on the backs of the poor, these poor immigrants make enough to support their meagre exsistance (let me add that many companies in China supply workers dorms to stay in) and these workers also send home to the parents what ever cash they have left to help support the remaining family members.

The affluent whos&#039; parents had sent their offspring to schools in major towns and cities are the ones that are able to aquire better jobs and the credit needed to live out the *western life style* that this article states. These lucky few are smaller in numbers than the actual poor workers that are exploited in the sweat shops and factories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dd on 10.27.08 at 9:50 am #72 kc,</p>
<p>The point is that WE do have support. The economics might be a 1930â€™s playout, however, we do have welfare, IE, free hospitals, and the governments are acting more quickly this time.</p>
<p>Yes it will be tough. But in the 1930â€™s there was NO support.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>During the 1930&#8242;s relief was given out to the needy, the usual package was $10.00 a month. Today you would call it welfare or the Dole.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>#76 dd<br />
#72 kc,</p>
<p>You have some valid points. However there is going to be 3 billion more people on this plant. Period. The Asian population is growing fast. They will want more of everything. There will not be enough resourse to feed, cloth, and heat all these people unless some big changes are made.</p>
<p>Yes correct. However wages donâ€™t have to stay low, they can increase over time. And I bet a car or durable goods in China will be available to the majority of the people within our lifetime. Donâ€™t just look at what someone can efford today â€¦ it is tomorrow what holds the promise.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>OK, here is the test then, wait for the next big UP-TICK (personaly I feel give this battle 10 years, we are headed for a whopper) then in the place of the Chinese Economy to come full circle they will need to have in the wings the orders to produce the wealth that they have experienced, however, in that same time I will bet you that there will be a different country (say Ethiopia) that will be exploited to extremes. Remember that in the last major bubble everything seemed to be made in Japan. (through the 80&#8242;s early 90&#8242;s) My gut feelings are that China has had its moment in the sun and a new place will take over. The way things are going here who knows it could be Canada for that matter that will be next in line to be greater exploited.</p>
<p>Now for that thesis to work out in China, there will have to be a great wealth shift, as the article stated, there is rich and poor, that&#8217;s it. With out consumerism and jobs that support wages high enough to purchase autos, how can more cars be purchased? I fully understand what the article is saying; *maybe* over many, many, years it will become powerful enough to have/supply wealth to the poor peasants that migrate from the farming/agricultural areas  into the cities. The pill that is greatest to swallow however is the one that implies these migrant workers with their heads full of dreams will become wealthy enough to purchase the life style they are yearning for.  With what i&#8217;ve read and watched on TV about the rising of China, the majority of the wealth produced has been on the backs of the poor, these poor immigrants make enough to support their meagre exsistance (let me add that many companies in China supply workers dorms to stay in) and these workers also send home to the parents what ever cash they have left to help support the remaining family members.</p>
<p>The affluent whos&#8217; parents had sent their offspring to schools in major towns and cities are the ones that are able to aquire better jobs and the credit needed to live out the *western life style* that this article states. These lucky few are smaller in numbers than the actual poor workers that are exploited in the sweat shops and factories.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Downsized and Delighted</title>
		<link>http://www.greaterfool.ca/2008/10/25/bcs-ice-age/comment-page-2/#comment-7755</link>
		<dc:creator>Downsized and Delighted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.greaterfool.ca/?p=614#comment-7755</guid>
		<description>87 John:  In the U.S., house values have decreased by around 30%.  Most of the problem was created by zero down mortgages, and mortgages that would reset at higher rates in a short number of years.  These types of mortgages appealed to (l)  people with no money who couldn&#039;t afford a home to begin with (2) greedy investors who leveraged to the max to own as many properties as possible to flip in a few years.  This only works so long as properties are going up in value.  

So for you, the situation is different.  You wanted the home for yourself.  You put a fairly good downpayment, and in the few years since,  your equity has built to  over 25%.  Your interest rate is fixed for 6 more years at a very low rate.  Your home is new, so shouldn&#039;t have too many big surprise bills.  Assuming your job is stable and you are able to put some money away for a rainy day, it all sounds good to me.   Even if your property dropped in value by 30%, you wouldn&#039;t be any worse off than where you started.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>87 John:  In the U.S., house values have decreased by around 30%.  Most of the problem was created by zero down mortgages, and mortgages that would reset at higher rates in a short number of years.  These types of mortgages appealed to (l)  people with no money who couldn&#8217;t afford a home to begin with (2) greedy investors who leveraged to the max to own as many properties as possible to flip in a few years.  This only works so long as properties are going up in value.  </p>
<p>So for you, the situation is different.  You wanted the home for yourself.  You put a fairly good downpayment, and in the few years since,  your equity has built to  over 25%.  Your interest rate is fixed for 6 more years at a very low rate.  Your home is new, so shouldn&#8217;t have too many big surprise bills.  Assuming your job is stable and you are able to put some money away for a rainy day, it all sounds good to me.   Even if your property dropped in value by 30%, you wouldn&#8217;t be any worse off than where you started.</p>
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